#clojure – 2014-12-16

2014-12-16

00:00	andyf	What expressions are the \2 and \3 supposed to refer to there?
00:06	andyf	Seems like a reasonable definition would be that it could match the string "xx", where (y) matches nothing, and so does \3, but the Java regex implementation doesn't see it that way.
00:09	gfredericks	yeah that's a good summary of my thoughts
00:09	rritoch	gfredericks: There is no third term so what is the point of \3?
00:09	gfredericks	rritoch: there is
00:10	gfredericks	I wonder how easy it is to statically determine whether a regex has such impossibilities
00:10	andyf	\3 should refer to expression starting with 3rd (
00:10	rritoch	,(clojure.string/replace "xxx" #"((x)\|(y))" "$3")
00:10	clojurebot	""
00:10	rritoch	,(clojure.string/replace "xxx" #"((x)\|(y))" "$2")
00:10	clojurebot	"xxx"
00:13	rritoch	gfredericks: I obviously need to dig more into the docs but $3 is returning that which isn't matched ##(clojure.string/replace "dxxxe" #"((x)\|(y))" "$3")
00:13	lazybot	⇒ "de"
00:14	gfredericks	,(clojure.string/replace "yyy" #"((x)\|(y))" "$3")
00:14	clojurebot	"yyy"
00:15	gfredericks	I don't understand that "de" part
00:15	TEttinger	it's replacing it with an empty string
00:15	gfredericks	oh right
00:15	TEttinger	##(clojure.string/replace "" #"(.)" "$9")
00:15	lazybot	⇒ ""
00:16	TEttinger	##(clojure.string/replace "a" #"(.)" "$9")
00:16	lazybot	java.lang.IndexOutOfBoundsException: No group 9
00:16	TEttinger	oh!
00:16	TEttinger	interesting
00:17	TEttinger	oh ok
00:17	TEttinger	so it never matched y, so group 3, (y), was empty
00:18	TEttinger	##(clojure.string/replace "a" #"((h)\|(i)\|(j))" "$4")
00:18	lazybot	⇒ "a"
00:18	TEttinger	##(clojure.string/replace "a" #"((a)\|(h)\|(i)\|(j))" "$4")
00:18	lazybot	⇒ ""
00:18	TEttinger	##(clojure.string/replace "a" #"((a)\|(h)\|(i)\|(j))" "$2")
00:18	lazybot	⇒ "a"
00:19	TEttinger	so you can't use $n to get an n that is higher than the number of groups in the regex.
00:19	TEttinger	but if those groups were empty, the $n for that group will be ""
00:20	TEttinger	##(clojure.string/replace "dxxxe" #"((x)\|(y))" "$1")
00:20	lazybot	⇒ "dxxxe"
00:25	rritoch	TEttinger: Ok, I see, my problem was that I was only working with the x values of the problem. ##(list (re-matches #"((x)\|(y))\3" "xx") (re-matches #"((x)\|(y))\3" "yy"))
00:25	lazybot	⇒ (nil ["yy" "y" nil "y"])
00:26	rritoch	gfredericks: I believe you are right, the regex you provided is unmatchable because either \2 or \3 will have a value, but not both. Or so it seems.
00:42	rritoch	Does clojure have anything similar to LPC reg_assoc? http://discworld.atuin.net/lpc/playing/documentation.c?path=/driver/efuns/strings/reg_assoc ?
00:48	justin_smith	something like this? ##(let [[a b c] (re-seq #".a." "happy and sad")] [c b a])
00:48	lazybot	⇒ ["sad" " an" "hap"]
00:48	justin_smith	no, that's not the same at all
00:50	rritoch	justin_smith: Yeah, this is for natural language processing, you pass it an array of patterns which are each attempted, and when a match is found it returns the token associated with that expression.
00:54	rritoch	justin_smith: I coded it once in pike https://github.com/rritoch/PikeVM/blob/master/root/boot/system-1.1/simul_efuns.pike#L648-L719 but right now I can't recall how the no-match moves forward
00:55	justin_smith	,(condp re-find "hello" #"good" :exit #"sup" :stay #"hel" :greet)
00:55	clojurebot	:greet
00:55	justin_smith	still not it
01:11	rritoch	justin_smith: Well, either way I need to add this to my todo list, but I am not looking forward to it, but being able to tokenize a string with regular expressions is occasionally useful.
01:11	justin_smith	why not a proper parser?
01:13	rritoch	justin_smith: Parsers in java tend to be a bit slow, even if you use a stringbuilder. Regular expressions are implemented in native code in many languages so it is usually faster. I am not sure if java uses a binary library to backup regular expressions though.
01:40	Html-01	someone is here ? ì
01:41	justin_smith	yeah, there area a few of us here
01:41	Html-01	someone here is a unity 3d programmer ?
02:04	rritoch	Does anyone know how to monitor for creation of a certain DOM node when using PhantomJS? Specifically I want to pause until a certain condition is met, such as document.getElementById returns non-null.
02:28	BorisKourt	I can't figure out how to turn something like: {:z [[:z 262.0] [:z 262.0] [:z 262.0]] :x [[:x 262.0] [:x 262.0] [:x 262.0]] : y [[:y 262.0] [:y 262.0] [:y 262.0]]}
02:28	BorisKourt	into just this: {:z [262.0 262.0 262.0] :x [262.0 262.0 262.0] :y [262.0 262.0 262.0]} can anyone help?
02:28	BorisKourt	preserving order in the vectors
02:28	SagiCZ1	BorisKourt: you can call set on each of the key
02:28	SagiCZ1	,(set [262.0 262.0 262.0])
02:28	clojurebot	#{262.0}
02:29	SagiCZ1	or distinct
02:29	SagiCZ1	,(distinct [262.0 262.0 262.0])
02:29	clojurebot	(262.0)
02:29	SagiCZ1	wait, nevermind
02:29	BorisKourt	[[k a] [k b] [k c]] into [a b c]
02:30	Empperi	,(into {} (for [[k v] {:z [[:z 262.0] [:z 263.0]]}] [k (map second v)])
02:30	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
02:30	Empperi	,(into {} (for [[k v] {:z [[:z 262.0] [:z 263.0]]}] [k (map second v)]))
02:30	clojurebot	{:z (262.0 263.0)}
02:30	andyf	BorisKourt: Maybe you want to call #(map second %) on each value in the map?
02:30	BorisKourt	Ill try Empperi's solution one moment
02:38	BorisKourt	Empperi works perfectly thank you
02:38	Empperi	np
02:55	otti	has someone a clue how i can close database connections when using korma that is based on jdbc?
03:02	nXqd	hi guys, what is this kind of variable, does it have any special meaning or just naming convention : options#
03:02	nXqd	(let [options# (dissoc ~options :xml?)]
03:07	luxbock	nXqd: it's syntax sugar for `gensym`
03:07	luxbock	nXqd: it's used to create unique local variable names inside macros
03:08	nXqd	luxbock: thanks ! it is, I just forgot what I read yesterday ...
03:16	rhg135	Is gensym unique per VM invocation?
03:21	andyf	rhg135: yes
03:22	rhg135	Good, andyf , i considered UUID
03:22	rritoch	rhg135: It is not guaranteed. I tested this myself by launching (gensym "x") as the first repl command, and repeating, I received the same value. So it is not guaranteed unique
03:23	rhg135	D:
03:23	andyf	Wait, when you say "per VM invocation" I thought you meant "within a single JVM running a single instance of Clojure". Within that, it is unique. Across different JVM invocations, the names can be the same.
03:23	rhg135	,(repeatedly 3 gensym)
03:23	clojurebot	(G__27 G__28 G__29)
03:24	andyf	gensym source: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/clj/clojure/core.clj#L558
03:24	rritoch	rhg135: You can use UUID to get guaranteed unique gensyms though
03:24	opqdonut	andyf: I think it's more like "per clojure classloader" or something like that, if you unload all the clojure stuff from your jvm, you'll probably get the same values again
03:24	rritoch	,(gensym (.toString (java.util.UUID/randomUUID)))
03:24	clojurebot	176704f8-55bc-476c-9b62-0b0c30c0a2de54
03:25	rhg135	im using it to label strings i get over irc
03:25	rhg135	im not to worried
03:26	rhg135	If i get non uniques chances are im OOM anyway
03:27	TEttinger	rhg135, add the timestamp then
03:29	rhg135	TEttinger: it's completely possible for two people to say something
03:29	TEttinger	at the same millisecond?
03:29	TEttinger	with the same username?
03:29	rhg135	I could lean on the fact lazybot runs sequentially
03:30	TEttinger	heh
03:30	rhg135	But it smells ugly
03:30	andyf	If you are willing to look up new messages time stamps in the collection of previous messages, you can append a unique counter value per second or millisecond to the messages that occur at the same time.
03:31	rritoch	TEttinger: On IRC it is because of network latency, if both messages arrive on the same packet, and your code is extremly fast (such as using multiple threads).
03:31	rritoch	TEttinger: For a single threaded app, it would probably be impossible.
03:34	rhg135	Im indexing by network channel and gensym I think I'm just being paranoid about collisions
03:35	rritoch	rhg135: A single person isn't going to be able to send two messages at the same millisecond, not even a bot. If you don't like UUID's for some reason, you could use something more exotic, like a SHA256 hash of the catenated string of username, IP, and timestamp (ms).
03:36	rritoch	rhg135: There are no known collissions of SHA256 yet.
03:36	rhg135	rritoch: you beat me in paranoia lol
03:37	TEttinger	or inc a ref
03:38	rhg135	Isn't this basically a gensym, assuming I run one JVM which I hope so?
03:39	rhg135	To the counter not hashing
03:40	TEttinger	yeah, except it isn't clear how well many many gensyms work without collision
03:42	rhg135	,(reduce = true (repeatedly 100000 gensym))
03:42	clojurebot	false
03:42	rhg135	Oops
03:43	rritoch	Has anyone here used clj-webdriver? I thought I found a solution to my problem by using wait-until, but it's implementation doesn't seem to work as I keep getting "No implementation of method: :wait-until of protocol" errors.
03:49	rhg135	Gensym seems unique
04:07	TEttinger	,(distinct (repeatedly 100000 gensym))
04:07	clojurebot	(G__27 G__28 G__29 G__30 G__31 ...)
04:07	TEttinger	,(distinct? (repeatedly 100000 gensym))
04:07	clojurebot	true
04:07	TEttinger	there we go
04:08	yogsototh	ikitommi_: thanks I just saw your message.
04:18	rhg135	TEttinger: thx
04:28	amalloy	TEttinger: ITYM (apply distinct? ...)
04:28	amalloy	,(distinct? (repeat 100 10))
04:28	clojurebot	true
04:29	TEttinger	,(apply distinct? (repeat 100 10))
04:29	clojurebot	false
04:29	TEttinger	,(apply distinct? (repeatedly 100000 gensym))
04:29	clojurebot	true
04:32	rhg135	Why is Symbol an IObj and keyword not?
04:33	andyf	I guess if you are going to stress gensym, realize that it can only return 2^32 unique gensym's, since it is based on the AtomicInteger class.
04:35	nXqd	can we disable a test in clojure by adding _ prefix ?
04:35	nXqd	skip*
04:36	luxbock	nXqd: you can ignore any expression by prepending it with #_
04:36	nXqd	luxbock: thanks :)
04:37	luxbock	I'd like to get a sanity check for something that I'm working on
04:37	luxbock	I have a C library that I call via Clojure's JNA that crunches some data for me, and this data can take up to 50gb of memory to hold
04:38	luxbock	and I'd like to save this data on disk, and then serve it via a ring based Clojure web app
04:39	luxbock	the data is basically just a collection of double-arrays
04:40	luxbock	so I think for saving disk space I should keep it in the native data format, and I'm thinking about using ztellman's Gloss for this
04:42	luxbock	I've also thought that maybe I should use Gzip to minimize it further, and to transport it to the client for the webapp
04:42	luxbock	does this all seem sensible?
04:43	zarkone	hello all. I want to learn apache storm and try to implement my first example. In examples data in spout is always local.. Is there simple example with outer source, e.g. from websoket stream
04:54	rritoch	Is there any way to automatically ungreedy a regular expression? I tried using flag 512 from PCRE but java doesn't honor that flag for ungreedy.
04:54	rritoch	I just need to mimic the ungreedy flag of PCRE.
04:55	BorisKourt	Is there a library or set of examples that deal with analysis of numeric collections? Having a hard time describing what I need. Some sort of super rudimentary wave analysis, grab highest peaks, average amplitude, sustain, and other 'wave shape' facts? This is not related to sound.
04:56	vijaykiran	BorisKourt: doesn't Incanter have something like that ?
04:56	dysfun	incanter has loads of stuff like that
04:57	BorisKourt	It likely would, I am hesitant though as my sets of data are miniscule and this is not meant for any visual output whatsoever. Ill take a look for sure if there is no smaller alternative.
05:01	BorisKourt	Looks like its innards do have just what I want. Thanks. Now to get it into the project :)
05:03	rritoch	Will this mimic perl's /U (ungreedy) properly? (defn ungreedy [re] (re-pattern (clojure.string/replace (.toString re) #"(\*)([^?])" "$1?$2")))
05:05	andyf	rritoch: It does not cover * at the end of regex, nor handle the difference in their meaning when they are inside of [], and it doesn't include +
05:06	andyf	probably a few other things that I'm not thinking of, but not sure
05:06	rritoch	andyf: Ok, as for the * at the end of the regex, isn't that ungreedy?
05:07	rritoch	andyf: I'll have to check but I'd think "/.*/U" would still match the entire string
05:08	andyf	parsing regex's to modify them is not something I'd do lightly, if I wanted it to be correct in all cases.
05:11	amalloy	andyf: it woulsn't be quite so bad if rritoch were actually parsing them. but just wanton string replacement is going to be a disaster. there are a lot of cases this ungreedy function misses that you didn't think of
05:13	amalloy	eg, #"\Qabcd*\E"
05:13	amalloy	or #"abc\*def"
05:13	amalloy	and it doesn't un-greedify the + repetition operator, or the {N,M} operator
05:15	andyf	amalloy quantifies my unnamed fears. Thanks amalloy :)
05:15	amalloy	clojurebot: amalloy \|is\| your unnamed fears made real
05:15	clojurebot	'Sea, mhuise.
05:16	birdspider	hello, how would I access a inner enum value ? (https://github.com/libgdx/libgdx/blob/master/gdx/src/com/badlogic/gdx/graphics/Pixmap.java Pixmap's Format/RGBA8888 for instance)
05:19	rhg135	I love having a good gc
05:20	rhg135	Pixmap$Format/xxx
05:29	andyf	rritoch: I'd suggest if you truly need PCRE capabilities, you use actual PCRE library. Going to the trouble of building it and calling it via JNI or similar mechanisms might be more pain than it is worth.
05:30	andyf	Google searches for existing PCRE library implementations in Java are not promising.
05:32	rritoch	andyf: Thanks, for now I'm just trying to see if I can just solve the currently mentioned issues.
06:48	hellofunk	is this most elegant way to assoc the same value into all the maps that are values of a sorted map? https://www.refheap.com/94984
06:49	hellofunk	basically taking the map apart and then putting it back together.
06:49	hellofunk	i suppose an alternative would be to reduce over the map but wouldn't be more elegant
06:50	triss	is there a form of let where all functions used take the same first argument?
06:50	triss	so I say:
06:50	triss	(let [a (func ctx)
06:51	triss	b (func-two ctx)
06:51	martinklepsch	is there a reason = works for one argument as well?
06:51	triss	c (func-three ctx)] blah blah)
06:51	triss	but i don't want to type ctx all the time
06:51	jack_rabbit	triss, not that I know of... You could easily macro it if you do it often.
06:52	hellofunk	tris you could (defn f [func] (partial func ctx)) then do (let [a (f func..) b (f func-two)
06:52	hellofunk	triss ^
06:53	hellofunk	or you could put the defn f as the first let form
06:54	triss	cheers guys. I'll have a play.
06:54	hellofunk	i can't tell if you are defining fns or calling them but you get hte idea
06:55	triss	calling them...
06:55	hellofunk	triss: (defn f [x & a] (apply x 2 a))
06:55	hellofunk	then if you do (f inc) or (f + 5 6) whatever, the arg 2 is added to every call
06:56	triss	cheers. hellofunk that's splendid.
06:56	hellofunk	jack_rabbit: definitely don't need or want a macro for this. it's basic FP at work
06:58	triss	well it's not saving that much typing as it is.... a macro would result in cleaner code.
06:58	hellofunk	triss: no, first rule of macros, never use a macro if a good higher order function will do the trick instead
06:59	hellofunk	there is no reason for a macro here.
06:59	triss	I'm writing a little DSL for doing web audio stuff.
06:59	hellofunk	DSL's typically use macros, but the problem you've presented is not good macro material
07:00	triss	ok man. I can see why they'd be avoided. I'll bare that in mind and try and get things done functionaly.
07:01	luxbock	hellofunk: I would use reduce-kv, but I don't think it makes a big difference
07:01	hellofunk	whenever you are trying to consolidate functions, as you are, or consolidate args to functions, etc, then this is normal stuff for FP without macros
07:01	jack_rabbit	hellofunk, if he wants to write just [a (func) b (func-two)] I don't see a way around it.
07:02	hellofunk	jack_rabbit: he wants to pass other args but keep one arg the same for the functions
07:03	hellofunk	unless i misunderstood his question
07:03	jack_rabbit	I still don't see the problem with a macro, if that's what he wants to do. It's only worthwhile if he's doing it lots of places (probably not), but if he wants to do this, setting up the environment without a macro would be more code than just inserting the first parameter where it goes manually.
07:04	jack_rabbit	hellofunk, no, I reread it. I think you're right.
07:05	hellofunk	whether you are "setting up more code" by not using a macro, or setting up more code by writing the macro, either way it's all code. and in this case the important uses for macros isn't apparent here. he is not delaying evaluation of arguments, for example.
07:07	jack_rabbit	My only argument is that if this is worth doing, it's worth putting in a macro, so he doesn't need to "set up the code" everywhere. If it's not worth doing that, it's just easier and more readable to put the argument where it goes in each function call.
07:08	hellofunk	building the HOF only needs to be done once, just as writing a macro would probably be done once, so it's not causing lots of code to get written everywhere
07:09	jack_rabbit	Well, it would need to be done once for each let, no?
07:10	hellofunk	jack_rabbit: then it wouldn't go in a let, it would be its own separate function
07:10	jack_rabbit	That's fine. You'd still need something like [a (f func) b (f func-two)] which is not quite the requirement
07:10	clgv	if really need, a macro combining `let` and the `doto` like fill-in would be the way to go
07:12	jack_rabbit	unless I'm mistaken. [a (f func) b (f func-two)] doesn't seem any better than [a (func ctx) b (func-two ctx)]
07:20	clgv	jack_rabbit: that simple pattern word be solvable via `juxt`
07:20	clgv	triss: (let [[a b] ((juxt func func-two) ctx)] ...)
07:24	jack_rabbit	clgv, thanks! I was unaware of that.
07:25	jack_rabbit	clgv, although, I don't see that he could add other parameters to those functions.
07:25	triss	ah very nice. thanks clgv
07:25	hellofunk	jack_rabbit: the point is that with func and func-two, you are now having to define each of those, which isn't making anything easier
07:26	triss	func & func-two are already defined in a library
07:27	jack_rabbit	hellofunk, sorry, I miss your meaning.
07:30	jack_rabbit	At the very least, something like juxt could be written as a function that would satisfy triss's requirements. Not exactly to how he specified them, but close enough probably. Better than a macro.
07:31	clgv	jack_rabbit: yeah, well for the most flexible scenario you'd need a macro
07:31	jack_rabbit	clgv, right.
07:31	clgv	jack_rabbit: although the difference to an higher order function can be made pretty small
07:32	jack_rabbit	right again
07:33	clgv	(defn invoke-with-ctx [ctx & fns] (reduce #(conj %1 (%2 ctx)) [] fns)) called via (invoke-with-ctx ctx #(some-fn % arg2 arg3) #(other-fn % arg4))
07:35	jack_rabbit	Not quite so elegant.
07:36	clgv	jack_rabbit: yeah, but probably the closest you can get with a higher order function
07:37	jack_rabbit	hmm... what about something that would result in a call like (invoke-with-ctx ctx [some-fn arg2] [other-fn arg2 arg3])
07:37	jack_rabbit	That shouldn't be too hard.
07:37	clgv	jack_rabbit: easy to do, but not much better
07:37	jack_rabbit	Looks a little better maybe
07:38	clgv	you have replaced the lambdas by implicit specification...
07:40	jack_rabbit	It only looks better. Is it inferior in some way?
07:41	jack_rabbit	(apply (first fn-seq) cxt (rest fn-seq))
07:42	jack_rabbit	ctx even
07:43	clgv	I don't think it is. More code in the implementiation but not problematic
07:44	jack_rabbit	Right. I just like the look of [some-fn arg2] better than #(some-fn % arg2)
07:56	triss	I'm feeling like a proper noob today. super slow.
07:56	triss	so if i want to adda new namespace to a project I just create a folder....
07:56	clgv	triss: source file and potentially a folder
07:56	triss	stick my my-ns/core.cljs my-ns/thing.cljs
07:57	clgv	triss: namespace my.lib.core needs to be in my/lib/core.clj
07:57	triss	and then I can require it another namespace via (:require [my-ns :as my-ns])
07:58	clgv	no. you need to require the full namespace
07:58	triss	oh yeah so (:require [my-ns.core :as my-ns])
07:58	triss	?
07:58	clgv	namespace "my.lib.core" needs to be in "my/lib/core.clj" and is required via (:require [my.lib.core :as mlc])
07:59	triss	god dman I don't understand why it;s not being seen
08:00	triss	I get the error message:
08:01	triss	WARNING: Required namespace not provided for hm.core
08:01	triss	but hm.core lives under my source folder in hm/core.cljs
08:01	triss	clojurescript btw
08:03	clgv	triss: you got an "(ns hm.core ...)" expression in that file?
08:04	triss	yup.
08:04	triss	i just restarted the repl....
08:05	triss	now the cljs compiler has stopped warning me but in the browser I'm told hm.core can't be found:
08:06	triss	Uncaught Error: Undefined nameToPath for hm.corebase.js
08:06	triss	erm ignore the base.js on the end of that
08:07	triss	I'm using figwheel... could that make things more complex?
08:09	clgv	triss: the provided information is not enough to be able to help you further. try to minimize the project setup until it stops failing, then you usually find the problem.
08:09	triss	cheers man will do
08:11	dnolen_	triss: there's also a #clojurescript specific channel you might want to join.
08:11	triss	oh... hadn't spotted that. thanks dnolen.
08:27	michaelr525	hey
08:52	thatguy	anyone have a favorite validation library for web forms? building my first and the options are almost overwheliming
09:14	SagiCZ1	thatguy: i have no experience in this matter, but what seems so complex about it?
09:25	thatguy	probably nothing, just seeing what people have had success with
09:27	zot	random idiom: i have a variable that gets updated in a loop. go figure. in any case, is there a naming convention for these sorts of things, similar to A and A' (A-prime)?
09:32	clgv	zot: not that I know. if you don't need the old value you should bind it to the name of the loop argument to avoid errors
09:33	clgv	*you should bind the new value to the name of the loop argument
09:33	zot	generally i do, but sometimes it's useful to have both; foo-cur and foo-next work, but i thought there might be sth already "normal"
09:35	clgv	zot: not really since it is application specific anyway. in a time series calculation "v_n+1 (f v_n)" might be a documenting name
09:38	clgv	zot: I have used both "prime" and "subscript-like indices"
10:01	craigglennie	I’m trying to write a toy web-scraper for threadless.com. The site has multiple pages of links to t-shirts. I would like a function that produces a list of all the links, moving to the next page as needed. In Python I could use a generator that took the starting URL, extracted product links to a list, yielded them one-by-one, and repeated this for the next page once the list of product links was empty. If there was no next page the generator would
10:01	craigglennie	exit. How would I go about something like this in clojure? I’ve looked at lazy-seq but I’m not sure that it’s the right answer
10:02	craigglennie	I also thought about using a list comprehension, but it doesn’t seem quite right, either
10:02	SagiCZ1	you could use lazy-seq
10:02	teslanick	You could use core.async to do something like a producer-consumer.
10:04	hellofunk	thatguy are you talking about browser-side web form validation?
10:04	craigglennie	teslanick: That sounds like what I’d want - would that also allow for the consumers to work in parallel?
10:10	teslanick	craigglennie: Yes. One go-block would consume the pages and put to a channel. Another (pool?) of go-blocks would consume the channel and generate a list of links.
10:12	ebaxt	Is there a simple way to access the constructor function (map->Name) of a record given only an instance of the record?
10:16	justin_smith	triss: quick correction - my-ns.core needs to go in src/my_ns/core.clj - note the underscore
10:19	craigglennie	teslanick: Thanks, I’ll take a look at core.async - I had wanted to parallelize this anyway
10:21	EvanR	join #haskell
10:22	EvanR	s/^/\//
10:23	justin_smith	ebaxt: it is possible, since the class of the record and the namespace it is in will match up, but there is no simple method
10:24	justin_smith	ebaxt: but if you have the thing already you can use (into (empty this-record) {:some "input"})
10:24	justin_smith	which does what map->Name does anyway
10:25	ebaxt	justin_smith: thx, guess I will have to call qualified_record_name/name or empty the map like you say
10:25	justin_smith	well that's not "emptying the map"
10:25	justin_smith	it just makes an empty record, of the same type as the input
10:25	justin_smith	records are immutable
10:26	pjstadig	i don't think empty works on records
10:26	ebaxt	justin_smith: ah, didn't see the into. Nice, thanks a lot!
10:26	justin_smith	pjstadig: actually, you are right, my bad
10:26	justin_smith	ebaxt: never mind, i expected empty to work on records, but it does not
10:26	pjstadig	it would be nice if it did :)
10:27	pjstadig	dissoc'ing any of the basis keys in a record cause it to "degrade" to a plain hashmap
10:27	justin_smith	,(defrecord MyRec [a b])
10:27	clojurebot	sandbox.MyRec
10:27	justin_smith	,(def r (MyRec. 0 1))
10:27	clojurebot	#'sandbox/r
10:27	justin_smith	,(into r {:a 42})
10:27	clojurebot	#sandbox.MyRec{:a 42, :b 1}
10:28	justin_smith	so that works, but will leave the old values for anything you did not specify
10:28	EvanR	whats the difference between defrecords and maps, practically
10:29	justin_smith	you can implement protocols on records
10:29	pjstadig	EvanR: some performance differences when you access the basis fields, and you can extend protocols to them
10:29	EvanR	i implemented protocols on the map though
10:29	pjstadig	they are also a distinct type
10:29	justin_smith	EvanR: but what if you wanted to implement the protocol differently on a different map
10:30	justin_smith	records are distinct classes, so they can be extended seperately
10:30	EvanR	ok
10:30	EvanR	each record schema has to be a dedicated type/class ?
10:30	ebaxt	,(sandbox.MyRec/create {:foo "bar})
10:30	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading string>
10:31	justin_smith	EvanR: defrecord creates a class
10:31	pjstadig	,(sandbox.MyRec/create {:foo "bar"})
10:31	clojurebot	#sandbox.MyRec{:a nil, :b nil, :foo "bar"}
10:31	ebaxt	,(sandbox.MyRec/create {:foo "bar"})
10:31	clojurebot	#sandbox.MyRec{:a nil, :b nil, :foo "bar"}
10:31	EvanR	like, it registers a new class name? or its anonymous
10:31	justin_smith	EvanR: there is no such thing as an anonymous class
10:31	pjstadig	,(class MyRec)
10:31	clojurebot	java.lang.Class
10:31	clgv	EvanR: usually you should use a map. if a map is not sufficient anymore you can switch to a record.
10:31	EvanR	there isnt?
10:31	pjstadig	er
10:31	pjstadig	,(class r)
10:31	clojurebot	sandbox.MyRec
10:32	justin_smith	EvanR: nope, the closest you get is gibberish auto-generated names
10:32	justin_smith	,(class (fn [x] x))
10:32	EvanR	ok that explains that
10:32	clojurebot	sandbox$eval232$fn__233
10:32	justin_smith	names like the ones you get for fn
10:37	arkh	I was wondering if someone could explain defmulti to me. I have a map like the following: {:something/new {:id 1 :userid 100}} and like to run maps like that through a multimethod. I'm trying to do variadic argument deconstruction but I'm not getting something right
10:37	arkh	(defmulti foo (fn [[k v & xs]] k))
10:38	justin_smith	that is not variadic
10:38	justin_smith	that is destructuring a single arg
10:38	arkh	(defmulti foo :something/new [[k v & xs]] (:id v))
10:38	arkh	I'd like to do variadic destructuring on that single arg
10:38	andyf	arkh: Will all of your maps have a single key/value pair? If not, the particular key/value pair chosen will vary from map to map.
10:39	justin_smith	arkh: you don't need to do the & xs part at all for destructuring to work
10:39	arkh	all the maps will have a single key value pair
10:39	arkh	ok
10:39	justin_smith	,((fn [[a b c]] c) (range)) ; arkh
10:39	clojurebot	2
10:39	justin_smith	where (range) of course produces an "infinite" series of numbers
10:40	arkh	I'm trying to understand that magic right now ... ; )
10:40	justin_smith	it's not magic, destructuring does not specify the length - it only specifies which parts you have names for
10:40	justin_smith	it's not pattern matching
10:41	arkh	right - my brain just had to catch up. I think I get it now
10:41	justin_smith	also, maps through list destructuring is a bit odd, because maps are not ordered
10:42	arkh	true, but I thought it would be ok if my maps are only a single key/value pair
10:42	justin_smith	nope, nth not supported, it will fail
10:42	arkh	that's what the repl was saying too
10:42	arkh	fair enough
10:42	justin_smith	,((fn [[a b]] b) {:a 0 :b 1})
10:42	clojurebot	#<UnsupportedOperationException java.lang.UnsupportedOperationException: nth not supported on this type: PersistentArrayMap>
10:42	justin_smith	,((fn [[a b]] b) (seq {:a 0 :b 1}))
10:42	clojurebot	[:a 0]
10:43	justin_smith	so you could add seq to your defmulti definition
10:43	arkh	sure!
10:43	justin_smith	or just not try to destructure maps with list destructuring
10:44	arkh	thank you
10:45	justin_smith	haha, you could define a defmulti for your dispatch function for your defmulti
10:45	justin_smith	yo dawg, I heard you like multimethods...
10:45	arkh	no need(!)
10:45	arkh	#xzibit #yolo
10:49	craigglennie	Another question… In my toy web-scraper I am going to be extracting data from multiple sites, each with their own layouts. I’d like a common public interface to each scraper; in OO I would have an actual interface, or an abstract base class. In Clojure I could put each scraper in it’s own namespace, and just make sure each one implements the appropriate functions, but it seems like multi-methods or protocols might also be appropriate. Any
10:49	craigglennie	advice?
10:49	clojurebot	the tao of warfare is deception
10:50	justin_smith	craigglennie: if performance is not the main concern, multimethods are more flexible, and easier for interactive usage (you can actually redefine them and may not break things)
10:51	justin_smith	and a protocol is literally an interface plus some niceties - it literally compiles down to a java interface in the bytecode
10:52	craigglennie	justin_smith: Performance is not a concern (I’m still just trying to learn Clojure) so multimethods might be good.
10:52	craigglennie	Interactive usage would probably be nice, too
10:52	justin_smith	craigglennie: another option is to write a higher order function, and pass in the function that fulfills some task it needs
10:53	justin_smith	that would be the old-school-lisp (pre-clos) option
10:54	arkh	a warning on interactive usage of defmulti - it can't be redefined at the repl apparently
10:54	justin_smith	arkh: it can, you just need to undef it first
10:55	justin_smith	,(defmulti foo :x)
10:55	clojurebot	#'sandbox/foo
10:55	justin_smith	,(defmulti foo :y)
10:55	clojurebot	nil
10:55	justin_smith	,(ns-unmap ns 'foo)
10:55	clojurebot	nil
10:55	justin_smith	,(defmulti foo :y)
10:55	clojurebot	#'sandbox/foo
10:55	arkh	nice
10:56	justin_smith	clojure.tools.namespace has some utilities for this kind of redefinition stuff
11:03	puredanger	you can also (remove-all-methods foo)
11:03	justin_smith	oh, I was not aware that existed, cool
11:04	justin_smith	(inc puredanger)
11:04	lazybot	⇒ 25
11:08	andyf	Clojure cheatsheet has what I think are all multimethod-related functions/macros grouped together in a Multimethod section, including remove-all-methods: http://jafingerhut.github.io Most other related functions/macros are grouped near each other, too.
11:10	ppppaul	does read-string work with cljs?
11:13	chouser	ppppaul: yes, but consider cognitect/transit, depending on use case.
11:26	arkh	even if there's clojure on both sides of the communication is cognitect/transit still recommended from a e.g. compression standpoint?
11:28	tomjack	too bad #(partition-by f %) can't be like #(eduction (partition-by f) %)
11:28	stuartsierra	arkh: Transit will usually be faster than EDN.
11:28	puredanger	arkh: if all-Clojure, then Fressian will be faster than Transit or EDN (also does caching)
11:28	stuartsierra	arkh: Because Transit can take advantage of platform-native JSON libraries.
11:29	stuartsierra	Hi puredanger!
11:29	puredanger	HI
11:30	stuartsierra	ppppaul: read-string is in its own namespace in cljs, I think it's called cljs.reader
11:30	chouser	but fressian isn't a real option in ClojureScript yet
11:31	arkh	my use case is clojurescript on one side and clojure on the other - thanks!
11:32	puredanger	in that case, I'd use Transit
11:32	chouser	ditto
11:39	annapawlicka	mpenet: hi Max, how do I do “UPDATE users SET top_places[2] = 'riddermark' WHERE user_id = 'frodo’;” using hayt?
11:44	verma	,(def options ["hello" "world"])
11:44	clojurebot	#'sandbox/options
11:45	verma	,(for [o options] {:text o :selected false})
11:45	clojurebot	({:text "hello", :selected false} {:text "world", :selected false})
11:45	verma	dafuq
11:45	verma	when I am doing it here in cljs, its giving me an emtpy {} in that list
11:45	verma	checking again
11:46	ppppaul	transit is an optimization... i'll use it in the future.
11:47	ticking	everytime I use fold I get bitten by argument counts changing on mapentry, please somebody tell me that this is done with a sane reason
11:49	puredanger	ticking: don't understand what you mean
11:49	triss	so is there anything in the library that's equivalent to (comp doall repeat)
11:49	ticking	reduce and reducers/reduce have different semantics
11:49	triss	?
11:49	stuartsierra	triss: dotimes
11:49	puredanger	ticking: you mean around maps in particular ?
11:50	ticking	puredanger: to be more precise, reduce and clojure.reducers/reduce behave differently on maps, reduce will require you a function like (fn [acc [k v]] while reducers/reduce will require (fn [acc k v]
11:50	triss	so dotimes returns the list of things it acts on?
11:51	ticking	puredanger: yeah
11:51	stuartsierra	triss: No, it's just for side effects.
11:51	ticking	triss: no
11:52	ticking	triss: most functions in clojure that do things just for side effects make this explicit by returning nil, e.g. dorun println dotimes
11:53	triss	ah ok....
11:54	triss	so its seems doall is the only one that returns...
11:54	ticking	all yes
11:54	puredanger	ticking: yeah, it was done for efficiency I believe
11:54	triss	i suppose mapv sort of fits in there
11:54	ticking	puredanger: I think in the code there is an explicit check for this case which would seem slower to me
11:55	puredanger	I believe it has to do with parallel folding over maps but I haven't looked at in depth
11:55	stuartsierra	triss: In general, the "do" is a hint that these functions are reserved for side effects. It frequently doesn't work out well to combine the lazy-sequence functions with side effects.
11:55	ticking	puredanger: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/f3259f4f34a68eae7db7efc0be9d19fa5dafbd3c/src/clj/clojure/core/reducers.clj#L77
11:55	tomjack	ticking: I guess (r/map identity) is a "just reduce please" shim
11:56	ticking	tomjack: yeah but urgh
11:56	tomjack	(which makes some parts of me unhappy, since (r/map identity) should be identity!)
11:56	ticking	tomjack: that this "fixes" it shows how broken the current behaviour is
11:56	ticking	tomjack: yeah exactly :D
11:57	ppppaul	i'm using datascript and it comes with some readers in a file. how do i get my cljs read to use those? (right now i'm doing a (swap!...) in my application code
11:58	dnolen_	Bronsa: ping
11:58	puredanger	ticking: the clojure map impls can .kvreduce themselves and avoid creating every intermediate entry object
11:58	puredanger	ticking: only to then tear it apart again into k and v
11:59	tomjack	but we have reduce-kv already
11:59	puredanger	the reducer impl is trying to have the best of both reduce and reduce-kv automatically
11:59	ticking	tomjack: reducers/reduce uses reduce-kv internally
12:00	puredanger	there is a ticket to consider this aspect again for transducers in 1.7
12:00	puredanger	sorry in 1.8
12:00	ticking	puredanger: really transducers do this to?
12:00	tomjack	I guess the auto-kv behavior is specialized for stuff like conj?
12:01	puredanger	tomjack: not sure what you're thinking of
12:01	tomjack	can't be just "I don't have to type -kv when I know I'm reducing a map", I presume
12:02	puredanger	I think there would be more double work than just that inside reducers
12:02	tomjack	so it only makes sense if the binary op is also at least ternary, like (conj coll k v)
12:02	stuartsierra	,(conj {} :key 3)
12:02	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: clojure.lang.Keyword>
12:03	dysfun	is anyone using core.async with aleph? or is there something aleph-like people are using with it?
12:03	tomjack	,(conj [] :key 3)
12:03	clojurebot	[:key 3]
12:03	stuartsierra	,(conj {} [:key 3])
12:03	clojurebot	{:key 3}
12:03	ticking	wow
12:04	stuartsierra	conj is variadic, but key/value pairs must be passed as a vector.
12:04	ticking	and this is done by transducers as well?
12:04	puredanger	no, not right now
12:04	puredanger	there's a ticket to consider this again
12:05	ticking	puredanger: do you have a link for the ticket? can't seem to find it :/
12:05	puredanger	CLJ-1552
12:05	ticking	puredanger: thanks :D
12:05	puredanger	http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1552
12:05	stuartsierra	puredanger is the kinder, gentler interface to JIRA
12:05	ticking	lol
12:06	tomjack	stuartsierra: if you knew you were reducing a map, you could just call reduce-kv. so I'm trying to think of cases where the reducing fn works for either reduce or reduce-kv
12:06	puredanger	I just loaded it all into my brain and can regurgitate it at will
12:06	dysfun	there used to be a workable emacs library for doing jira things
12:06	dysfun	that was vastly preferable to the web interface
12:06	stuartsierra	tomjack: I think that would be pretty rare.
12:06	puredanger	I have a Clojure library that can access it
12:06	puredanger	that I wrote to scrape jira
12:06	dysfun	now we just need someone to finish DEUCE and we can use that, heh
12:07	ticking	puredanger: I'm begging you please don't do this :D, it is so horribly confusing and breaks abstraction in so many ways, (reduce ... foo should equal (reduce ... (map identity foo
12:07	puredanger	I'm about 90% of the way towards an automated program that can scrape it and replicate it (with history) in Datomic :)
12:07	tomjack	if it's rare, why https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/f3259f4f34a68eae7db7efc0be9d19fa5dafbd3c/src/clj/clojure/core/reducers.clj#L77 ?
12:07	dysfun	puredanger: great, now you have to write datomic bindings in elisp. that's gonna be fun
12:08	puredanger	dysfun: well I don't need that :)
12:09	puredanger	ticking: I'm mostly in agreement
12:09	kenrestivo	dysfun: aleph has its own async-like thing called manifold (in case nobody answered already)
12:09	puredanger	in a side bar, I've built a new direct iterator for maps (CLJ-1499) and also built a variant of it that would provide a new direct iterator for only-keys and only-values (which avoids this same intermediate entry cost). it was surprisingly (to me) not much faster
12:09	dysfun	i'm tickled by the idea of just treating it as a database though
12:10	dysfun	kenrestivo: yeah, i was just reading through it. i understand there's interop with core.async
12:10	ticking	puredanger: interesting, JIT being fancy?
12:10	puredanger	ticking: the cost of allocating and throwing away small Java objects is really really low these days
12:10	dysfun	i've got a brand new app and i've been looking for a reason to play with core.async, so it seems like a fun project
12:11	ticking	puredanger: long live the generational gc and david ungar :D
12:11	puredanger	heh. I've tried to get him to speak at Strange Loop a couple times, just hasn't worked out
12:12	ticking	puredanger: too bad :D, I'd love to hear some more stuff from him, self is so awesome
12:13	puredanger	he seemed interest, maybe in the future. just bad timing in the past.
12:14	puredanger	ticking: anyhow, what I got from the key/val iterator experiment was that we're not getting that much benefit from reduce-kv over reduce
12:14	puredanger	once you're leveraging transducers/reducers
12:15	ticking	puredanger: good to hear, every time an implicit reduce-kv is used god kills a kitten ;)
12:15	puredanger	and maybe the complexity of reduce-kv is not worth it. unrolled small collections will also possibly make this faster
12:16	ticking	puredanger: yeah, can't wait for the small fixed arity vectors
12:28	hellofunk	is this most elegant way to assoc the same value into all the maps that are values of a sorted map? https://www.refheap.com/94984
12:30	joegallo	you might (empty sorted-map-in) rather than invoking (sorted-map) directly.
12:30	joegallo	but besides that it seems like perfectly fine code
12:31	joegallo	you also could have used a reduce rather than an into/for, but that's a matter of taste, imho
12:31	joegallo	i prefer the into/for route, but that's just me
12:31	clgv	which is the default library to implement a service via ring + compojure consuming and producing JSON?
12:32	weavejes_	clgv: There's ring-json
12:33	clgv	weavejester: I just found that, but it's use case is serializing return values only. what is the usual setup to get the json data from the request?
12:33	weavejester	clgv: It does both
12:34	clgv	ah thank you. quick reading was too quick ;)
12:35	dnolen_	puredanger: is CLJ-1499 ready to go? http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJS-836
12:36	m1dnight_	Can I use an atom to wait() and notifyAll()?
12:37	m1dnight_	Or should I create a seperate object for that?
12:41	EvanR	when i do future-cancel, and then the corresponding java Future.cancel "cancels a task if possible", what exactly does this mean?
12:41	EvanR	what if my "task" is blocking waiting for something
12:41	EvanR	does it really cancel?
12:43	justin_smith	EvanR: well, .cancel is a method on java.util.concurrent.Future http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/util/concurrent/Future.html#cancel(boolean)
12:43	justin_smith	it returns a boolean that tells you whether it was actually cancellable
12:45	EvanR	so future is the recommended way to spawn a thread to do something, possibly forever?
12:45	llasram	EvanR: And the actually mechanics of the interruption will generally defer to http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/lang/Thread.html#interrupt()
12:45	EvanR	llasram: thanks for that, i was really wondering
12:45	justin_smith	EvanR: it's one way to do it, and it tends to work pretty nicely
12:46	justin_smith	(inc llasram)
12:46	justin_smith	thanks for the extra info
12:46	lazybot	⇒ 43
12:46	EvanR	on one hand you see people saying threads cant be killed/cancels/interrupted, and then theres this interaction with Future
12:46	justin_smith	EvanR: not that they can't be
12:46	justin_smith	just that there is no foolproof way to do it
12:46	llasram	Exactly. It's just ultimate cooperative
12:47	llasram	ultimately
12:47	EvanR	and then theres this Thread.interrupt which suggests that it works if its sleeping or "doing IO"
12:47	EvanR	and not if its busy looping
12:47	llasram	Exactly -- that's the "cooperative" part
12:48	justin_smith	EvanR: if you have a loop in your future, check (.isInterrupted (Thread/currentThread)) before recurring
12:48	EvanR	good to know
12:48	justin_smith	a future-cancel will set the interrupted flag
12:48	justin_smith	then you are cooperating :)
12:48	EvanR	im planning to be blocking-dequeuing
12:48	EvanR	then looping
12:49	EvanR	so hopefully i dont need to check the flag explicitly
12:57	justin_smith	EvanR: I'd say a check on that flag can't hurt and could possible help "If none of the previous conditions hold then this thread's interrupt status will be set." - better safe than sorry
12:58	EvanR	yes
12:58	justin_smith	it's effectively a race condition, if you catch the thread while it isn't blocking, the interrupt is a no-op (other than setting that flag)
12:59	EvanR	hold on... what would cause a no-op?
12:59	justin_smith	the thread isn't blocking, so none of the listed exceptions are triggered
12:59	EvanR	what exceptions
13:00	justin_smith	the ones listed before "If none of the previous conditions hold then this thread's interrupt status will be set." in the docs llasram linked to
13:01	EvanR	urg
13:01	justin_smith	which makes it clear that you should check that status, to be safe ##(.isInterrupted (Thread/currentThread))
13:01	lazybot	⇒ false
13:02	justin_smith	you can wrap it in a function (defn alive? [] (not (.isInterrupted (Thread/currentThread))))
13:02	EvanR	so if it happens to not be blocking on the queue, the flag will get set and obviously nothing like ClosedByInterruptedException will be thrown, and then later it will attempt to dequeue, and the flag being set doesnt make a damn of a difference?
13:02	EvanR	it will just continue?
13:02	justin_smith	as llasram meantioned, at the root, it is cooperative, you need to check that flag to cooperate
13:02	justin_smith	EvanR: exactly
13:03	EvanR	got it
13:04	EvanR	and also i need a loop recur, not normal recursion for a thread like this to work?
13:04	EvanR	or is there something like "loop forever"
13:06	justin_smith	using the function I defined above (while (alive?) ...)
13:26	danneu	building an oauth api at the moment. can anyone recommend a site with a pleasant oauth api experience that i can swaggerjack some ideas from? so far i'm aping twitter and github
13:28	danneu	took a gander at oauthbible.com and was paralyzed with indecision
13:28	ajmccluskey	danneu: Stack Overflow works well from memory
13:28	danneu	ajmccluskey: thanks
13:29	danneu	linkedin ranks up there among the worst oauth apis i've used, though
13:35	TimMc	danneu: What made it bad?
13:37	ajmccluskey	Is there a library function to check "cyclic equality"? e.g. (ce? [1 2 3] [2 3 1]) => true
13:38	justin_smith	I assume this is more strict than (= (set a) (set b))
13:39	ajmccluskey	justin_smith: yeah - I'm looking at a path through a graph where I can start from any node in the path - so order matters, but not starting point
13:39	justin_smith	I checked clojure.math.combinatorics, it was my first guess, but seems to have nothing like that
13:40	ajmccluskey	I'm thinking I can roll my own easily enough with a rotate fn, iterate, and some
13:40	justin_smith	I bet a combination of cycle and take would be useful
13:41	justin_smith	,(take 4 (drop 2) (range 4))
13:41	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (3) passed to: core/take>
13:41	justin_smith	err
13:41	justin_smith	,(take 4 (drop 2 (range 4)))
13:41	clojurebot	(2 3)
13:41	justin_smith	,(take 4 (drop 2 (cycle (range 4))))
13:41	clojurebot	(2 3 0 1)
13:42	ajmccluskey	justin_smith: thanks, something like this should make for a neater rotate function
13:43	EvanR	calculate the cyclic equivalence class representative and compare those
13:43	triss	ok so I've got a load of static data in: resources/public/my_files
13:44	triss	how do I add a route to compojure that serves these up?
13:44	justin_smith	EvanR: that is awesome, TIL
13:44	justin_smith	(inc EvanR)
13:44	lazybot	⇒ 7
13:44	EvanR	wuh
13:45	justin_smith	?
13:45	justin_smith	today I learned
13:45	EvanR	i didnt even think my idea was that great
13:45	justin_smith	heh, no, it's the right answer here
13:49	ajmccluskey	EvanR: I don't know enough maths to understand what you mean :(
13:50	TimMc	EvanR: You mean rotate to lowest-ID element or something?
13:51	TimMc	so [9 7 23 4 10] would be become [4 10 9 7 23]
13:52	EvanR	good idea ;)
13:54	justin_smith	ajmccluskey: the idea is to define a rotation that would be guaranteed to give you the same result for any rotation of the same items (eg. TimMc's suggestion of rotating so the lowest item is always first before comparing)
13:55	ajmccluskey	justim_smith: gotcha
13:55	TimMc	There's probably some higher-performing approach where you take the first element of the first path, find a match in the second path, then walk both and compare.
13:55	ajmccluskey	TimMc: EvanR: thanks
13:55	TimMc	Do you know for sure that your paths are simple cycles?
13:55	TimMc	or whatever the term would be
13:56	ajmccluskey	TimMc: I thought of that, but my paths may traverse the same node multiple times
13:56	TimMc	In that case finding the class representative could be tricky.
13:56	EvanR	sounds like a more sophisticated notion of equivalence
13:57	TimMc	Pathological cases could look like ##(take 20 (interleave (repeat 0) (range)))
13:58	lazybot	⇒ (0 0 0 1 0 2 0 3 0 4 0 5 0 6 0 7 0 8 0 9)
13:58	TimMc	err, close enough
13:58	ajmccluskey	basically, yes
13:59	TimMc	The slow and simple approach it is!
14:00	ajmccluskey	right now I was just looking at doing this for a unit test, so the easiest approach is to manually verify that my returned path is equivalent to the expected output in the sense I'm thinking and then reorder the expected output
14:00	TimMc	This is probably a great opportunity to use test.check, by the way.
14:01	ajmccluskey	TimMc: good point. I'm verifying an eulerian path, so I guess I could verify that the path is valid and contains each edge only once.
14:05	ebaxt	,(defrecord Foo [a])
14:05	clojurebot	sandbox.Foo
14:05	ebaxt	,(eval (list (symbol (str (-> (Foo. "a") class .getName) "/create")) {:a "a"}))
14:05	clojurebot	#sandbox.Foo{:a "a"}
14:05	ebaxt	I can't figure out how to do the above without eval, any suggestions?
14:07	gfredericks	ebaxt: what's the input? an instance of Foo?
14:08	gfredericks	ebaxt: it's not clear what the crucial part of this is that you're trying to replicate
14:09	ebaxt	gfredericks: I'm trying to call the constructor function of a record using only an instance of that record
14:09	gfredericks	ebaxt: I assume assoc wouldn't work for your use case?
14:11	ebaxt	gfredericks: So basically I want to call (map->Foo {:a "a") , only I must figure out which record by the instance passed to me
14:15	gfredericks	I don't think there's any clean way to do this, but maybe cleaner than what you have
14:15	ebaxt	gfredericks: I have a couple of workarounds.But I'm trying to understand why the above works but not (. (resolve (symbol (-> (Foo. "a") class .getName))) create {:a "a"})
14:15	gfredericks	,(Foo. 2)
14:15	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Unable to resolve classname: Foo, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
14:16	justin_smith	. is a reader macro, you cannot synthesize args to it
14:16	justin_smith	you need eval for that
14:16	TimMc	ajmccluskey: I was thinking more that test.check might help you generate some really good pathological test cases. :-)
14:16	Bronsa	ebaxt: you have to use reflection
14:16	mgaare_	ebaxt: you could create a Constructible protocol and implement it on the records you want, if you know them ahead of time
14:17	ebaxt	mgaare_: Yeah, that's the workaround I'm going with
14:17	mgaare	(probably with a different name, one that's spelled correctly at least)
14:17	Bronsa	ebaxt: core.incubator has a new-by-name function you can use
14:18	ajmccluskey	TimMc: my code got me past the question in my course, so I'm almost scared to go there right now. Got a deadline :p. Definitely want to throw test.check at it when I get time.
14:18	puredanger	dnolen_: re CLJ-1499, it's ready to be screened (hey, you could help with that wink wink)
14:19	dnolen_	puredanger: heh ok
14:19	ebaxt	Bronsa: thanks, that worked
14:19	puredanger	dnolen_: I'm still mentally wondering whether I should push forward with the additional stuff I have on it for key- and val-only iterators
14:20	ebaxt	justin_smith: thanks btw, that explains it
14:20	Bronsa	puredanger: btw re: 979 I tried loading aleph/lamina/core.typed with the new patch and didn't see any slowdown in compilation times. If anything I actually saw a minor performance improvement but that was probably a random fluctiation
14:21	puredanger	Bronsa: I'm not really expecting any slowdown, but it's a question that needs to have an answer
14:21	dnolen_	puredanger: probably not a bad idea? keys / vals is quite common. CLJS used to not have keys / vals specific iterators, adding them lot match Clojure made a huge difference.
14:21	dnolen_	s/lot/to
14:22	puredanger	dnolen_: I added a new interface to obtain those specific iterators, then made use of them in CLJ-1602. surprisingly little improvement.
14:22	puredanger	over the improvements already in 1602 that is
14:22	puredanger	maybe a 5% additional benefit
14:23	dnolen_	puredanger: you benching against zipmap usage or something like that?
14:23	puredanger	there's a test in 1602
14:23	puredanger	there are so many outstanding patches with perf improvements in different areas right now, it's hard to keep them all straight :)
14:24	puredanger	reduce over maps, keys, vals, range, repeat, cycle, iterate, vec, etc!
14:26	puredanger	dnolen_: the additional iterators required the creation of a new interface (I called it MapIterable) to provide them. I wasn't sure if I was pushing it too far for a 5% benefit.
14:27	dnolen_	puredanger: right 5% seems kind small
14:28	puredanger	it's basically just saving the cost of creating and throwing away the entry objects, but object allocation is really fast these days
14:29	puredanger	maybe I'll make a separate ticket for it so it can be evaluated separately
14:34	EvanR	justin_smith: what about easily getting exceptions from the future thread
14:35	noonian	Evan I believe if you deref a future that threw exceptions it will throw it on the thread you deref the future from so you could try/catch your deref
14:35	noonian	EvanR*
14:35	EvanR	right...
14:36	EvanR	though my main thread is busy, it cant wait forever on a particular future
14:36	EvanR	and yet another thread for this purpose seems to have the same issues
14:39	noonian	if you want to know about exceptions on your main thread but dont want to block maybe core async is appropriate? could have a channel and deref your future in another thread (of just try/catch in your future thread) and put on the channel if you get an exception
14:40	EvanR	i dont even want to know about it in the main thread
14:40	EvanR	i just want the error print out somewhere
14:40	EvanR	i guess i have to catch all exceptions in the future
14:40	noonian	can't you just wrap your call inside future in a try/catch block then?
14:44	znn	what is the difference between a channel and a message bus?
14:45	znn	or is a channel another term for a bus and vice versa?
14:45	noonian	in this context a channel is specific to core.async, its like a queue with "blocking" put/read semantics by default
14:47	zanes	Aw man. I guess instaparse can’t parse indentation?
14:48	gfredericks	zanes: I think I remember coming to that conclusion at some point
14:48	zanes	gfredericks: Sad panda.
14:48	gfredericks	is generating keywords w/ test.check a guaranteed memory leak?
14:48	reiddraper	probably
14:49	gfredericks	I can't remember if they get GC'd somehow
14:49	amalloy	EvanR: you can put a try/catch in your future that prints the exception somewhere useful, or even write a macro/function that does that. or you can set the defaultuncaughtexceptionhandler for your whole program, which controls what happens when an exception makes it out of a thread's run() method
14:50	amalloy	gfredericks: pretty sure they do get GCd
14:50	stuartsierra	Keywords are interned as WeakReferences.
14:50	amalloy	as long as you don't hang onto them, anyway
14:51	noonian	zanes: this stackoverflow talks about trying to parse indentation ala python in instaparse: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16779676/can-i-parse-an-indentation-based-language-using-instaparse-or-any-other-clojure
14:51	zanes	noonian: Yeah, thanks. I saw that one.
14:52	zanes	Serializing it and running it through instaparse a second time feels gross.
14:52	gfredericks	stuartsierra: amalloy: yeah that was my hunch
14:52	noonian	agreed
14:52	amalloy	gfredericks: if you're interested, the relevant code is in Keyword.intern and Util.clearCache
14:52	gfredericks	has anybody written a JSONish generator for test.check yet?
14:53	amalloy	gfredericks: how would that be different from (fmap json/generate-string ...)?
14:53	gfredericks	I remember bbloom complaining about parsing json with keywords...I assume that's just because calling .intern at runtime is slow, not because of memory concerns
14:53	stuartsierra	It's not clear to me if Keyword automatically removes references to interned keywords that are never used.
14:53	bbloom	gfredericks: ignoring perf, i'm complaining semantically
14:53	puredanger	stuartsierra: yes
14:54	puredanger	that is, yes they should get removed
14:54	amalloy	stuartsierra: never used? they're used once, of course, when they get interned. but after that if nobody has any references to them, they get cleaned up
14:54	Bronsa	stuartsierra: yeah, see Util.clearCache
14:54	bbloom	the day you decide you want a map with URLs as keys is the day you say "fuck. i wish i didn't keywordize everything"
14:54	gfredericks	amalloy: it wouldn't be necessarily generating the strings, just a restricted set of scalars & collections -- e.g., only vectors (no lists/sets), no characters, only keyword keys (or strings if bbloom is looking)
14:54	gfredericks	I think I might have just started three parallel conversations
14:54	amalloy	i always weigh in with bbloom on this one
14:54	puredanger	bbloom: given the evil things URLs do with the network, I don't think I'd use java.net.URL as a key in a map
14:54	amalloy	gfredericks: it's a test of character. you've just started a fourth i think
14:54	TimMc	Ooh, this is my favorite complaint too!
14:55	bbloom	puredanger: no, i meant string encodings of URLs
14:55	stuartsierra	An interesting idea: "soft intern" — create a new keyword, but only intern it if it's already interned.
14:55	amalloy	anyone who can keep up is clearly of high moral fibre
14:55	puredanger	bbloom: withdrawn :)
14:55	bbloom	puredanger: ie anything other than a valid keyword as a property which is valid json
14:55	amalloy	stuartsierra: why would that be useful? it's not different from the regular intern except that it allocates a map entry briefly, right?
14:55	bbloom	hell, even just id numbers :5 vs "5", neither of which are 5, which is invalid json
14:56	gfredericks	k I'm prollably gonna put a json-data generator in test.chuck
14:56	stuartsierra	amalloy: It's a vague thought: If I'm creating keywords from JSON, or an HTTP request, or something, I don't want interned keywords for things which weren't already keywords in my code.
14:57	dgleeson	hello all, does anyone know if there is a way to get at the file attributes of a file in clojure? I can see how to read and write, but what if I want to know the permissions or ownership?
14:57	stuartsierra	But I guess I wouldn't want them to be keywords at all.
14:57	puredanger	gfredericks: regarding your comment N messages ago, in 1.7 keywords and symbol no longer string intern
14:57	amalloy	stuartsierra: right, exactly: you don't want keywords
14:57	amalloy	if you did get keywords which weren't interned, you would be inviting disaster
14:57	stuartsierra	yeah, right
14:57	stuartsierra	of course
14:57	gfredericks	puredanger: oh I remember seeing something about that; curious what the advantage is there
14:57	puredanger	intern is slow :)
14:58	gfredericks	puredanger: does that mean keyword comparisons might require string comparisons?
14:58	puredanger	keywords are still cached
14:58	dgleeson	oh, doh, I suppose I could just use the java interopt to get that
14:58	gfredericks	okay that's the detail I was missing
14:58	amalloy	gfredericks: for your json generating thing, you can just do some slight tweaks to gen/any, right?
14:58	stuartsierra	dgleeson: Yes, you will have to use Java interop.
14:58	puredanger	gfredericks: the cache code was tweaked slightly too to make it faster
14:58	gfredericks	puredanger: so before it was effectively "interning" in two steps?
14:59	gfredericks	amalloy: totes
14:59	gfredericks	amalloy: also maybe use my double generator
14:59	puredanger	gfredericks: yes, it's all tricky
15:02	gfredericks	~it is all tricky
15:02	clojurebot	Alles klar
15:04	gfredericks	I just sampled an old json generator I wrote and got: {:--:Rb!?8:tTJi-:iB5:8?m false, :JJ:8:3:T (), :d+eI:L:!KXg false}
15:04	gfredericks	curious if that's even readable
15:04	gfredericks	,{:--:Rb!?8:tTJi-:iB5:8?m false, :JJ:8:3:T (), :d+eI:L:!KXg false}
15:04	clojurebot	{:--:Rb!?8:tTJi-:iB5:8?m false, :JJ:8:3:T (), :d+eI:L:!KXg false}
15:08	TimMc	gfredericks: Make sure to throw some \u2028 and \u2029 in there for good measure.
15:10	gfredericks	TimMc: in the oven: https://github.com/gfredericks/test.chuck/tree/regexes-2#string-from-regex
15:11	TimMc	oooo
15:13	amalloy	gfredericks: i don't want test.chuck to subsume my library, but are you aware of https://github.com/amalloy/thrift-gen ?
15:14	TimMc	gfredericks: Please tell me you have a macro that turns that BNF into clojure code. :-)
15:14	gfredericks	TimMc: what? you mean instaparse?
15:15	gfredericks	amalloy: nope
15:15	TimMc	Does instaparse do that?
15:15	gfredericks	TimMc: well it turns the BNF into a parser...
15:16	amalloy	what BNF are we even talking about?
15:17	gfredericks	I hope this one, otherwise I'm even further confused: https://github.com/gfredericks/test.chuck/blob/regexes-2/resources/com/gfredericks/test/chuck/regex.bnf
15:18	amalloy	man, who looks in resources/ anyway?
15:18	uptown	i have a different generation question. i seem to spend a lot of time wrapping fns for use by controllers of some sort. 'component' for instance. has anyone tried to generate those wrappers? maybe scanning code based on metadata tags or similar?
15:32	TimMc	I think that's called spring.
15:33	TimMc	and it is the source of all evil
15:36	clrnd	hey is there something like Akka for Clojure?
15:36	xemdetia	speaking of sources of evil, does anyone know of a quick and dirty LDAP server for integration testing?
15:36	uptown	i was hoping for a clever metamacro
15:36	uptown	but i see what you mean
15:40	amalloy	i think sdegutis has something vaguely like the evil uptown is thinking of, but i don't recall the details
15:42	gfredericks	~metamacros are functions for writing macros for writing macros for writing functions for deleting your code
15:42	clojurebot	Cool story bro.
15:42	gfredericks	~metamacros \|are\| functions for writing macros for writing macros for writing functions for deleting your code
15:42	clojurebot	You don't have to tell me twice.
15:49	turbofail	clrnd: there's some libraries that do bindings for akka - https://github.com/setrar/akka-clojure
15:50	turbofail	might be a little bit dead though
15:51	clrnd	turbofail, I see, was hoping for something actually clojurist
15:52	turbofail	message-passing isn't really the clojure way™
15:53	stuartsierra	message-passing — with queues — is totally the Clojure way!
15:53	stuartsierra	core.async + your messaging bus of choice is really all you need.
15:54	dnolen_	reiddraper: ping
15:54	turbofail	i guess i meant more "erlang-style message passing"
15:54	reiddraper	dnolen_: pong
15:55	dnolen_	reiddraper: I have a some real interest to just port test.check a la core.async now (rather than wait for feature expressions), I've already started, probably won't take me long to wrap it up
15:55	dnolen_	reiddraper: would you take a patch?
15:55	clrnd	well that's not really fault tolerant
15:56	clrnd	see akka implements actor system architectures for error tolerance
15:57	reiddraper	dnolen_: yes, however, gfredericks, aphyr and i have been doing some work that may be interesting/tough to do in js. There's a branch now that uses a new RNG, and adds parallel tests, using executors, etc.
15:58	reiddraper	just anticipating some interesting merge conflicts
15:58	gfredericks	oh I'm sure JS comes with a few block ciphers
15:58	dnolen_	reiddraper: that's I meant about core.async style - there's separate directory for all the cljs stuff, no code sharing
15:58	reiddraper	yeah, maybe it won't be too bad then
15:58	gfredericks	well actually: http://docs.closure-library.googlecode.com/git/class_goog_crypt_Aes.html
15:59	dnolen_	reiddraper: it means copy and pasting to but honestly I don't think it's a big deal esp. when the Clojure side may be evolving faster
15:59	dnolen_	reiddraper: ends up being nice, was true for core.async
16:00	reiddraper	dnolen_: here's what the diff looks like at the moment: https://github.com/aphyr/test.check/compare/clojure:master...feature/parallel-testing
16:00	reiddraper	dnolen_: yeah, I think that would be great. Will we be able to run the cljs tests from the command-line?
16:01	dnolen_	reiddraper: yep that's the idea
16:01	reiddraper	excellent
16:01	dnolen_	reiddraper: cljs.test is basically good to go in ClojureScript master
16:01	reiddraper	gfredericks: any objections?
16:01	dnolen_	reiddraper: so I'm making sure all the clojure.test integration stuff just works similarly w/ cljs.test
16:02	gfredericks	reiddraper: nope
16:03	gfredericks	dnolen_: what system deps do you need to run the tests? same as cljs proper?
16:03	l1x	hi guys, i was wondering what am i doing wrong here https://gist.github.com/l1x/3e991063483f1204536f
16:03	l1x	it seems i cant catch that exception
16:04	amalloy	~map
16:04	clojurebot	map is LAZY
16:04	amalloy	~botsnack
16:05	clojurebot	thanks; that was delicious. (nom nom nom)
16:05	turbofail	crypto in javascript?
16:05	amalloy	l1x: that one's for you. map is lazy. it immediately returns a lazy seq, and your try/catch completes successfully. then, the repl tries to print your map, and gets an exception while realizing the seq
16:05	gfredericks	turbofail: the new test.check RNG uses a block cipher
16:05	l1x	amalloy: ahh this is what i missed
16:05	l1x	thanks!
16:05	gfredericks	I'd like to figure out something simpler but that would require learning how to test the quality of a RNG
16:06	amalloy	l1x: this would be more apparent if you tried printing the stacktrace, by the way
16:06	dnolen_	gfredericks: cljsbuilds w/ :notify-command, probably simplest for everyone if we just run the tests against Node.js
16:06	amalloy	the summary message that gets printed by the repl is often not terribly useful
16:06	turbofail	gfredericks: ah, so not actual crypto-crypto
16:06	EvanR	theres dieharder for testing rngs
16:06	amalloy	but if you look at the trace, and see it's inside of printing instead of inside something else...
16:06	gfredericks	turbofail: no, not crypto-crypto-crypto
16:07	reiddraper	turbofail: actual crypto, but not for the purposes of crypto
16:07	turbofail	heh
16:07	seon	hello
16:07	seon	no one from Lyon
16:07	reiddraper	turbofail: http://publications.lib.chalmers.se/records/fulltext/183348/local_183348.pdf
16:09	l1x	amalloy: so is there any way to catch an exception like this?
16:10	turbofail	doall
16:10	turbofail	around the map
16:11	l1x	turbofail: thanks!!
16:13	EvanR	~filter
16:13	clojurebot	filter doesn't stop
16:14	joobus	is aleph considered stable for production work? The bottom of the github page says "Aleph is meant to be a sandbox for exploring how Clojure can be used effectively in this context.".
16:17	ben8	hi. quick question about compojure. I'm missing a run-jetty function?
16:18	joobus	ben8: I'm guessing you are reading some example with a run-jetty function?
16:18	joobus	ben8: ring can be used with multiple servers. run-jetty runs the jetty server, and there is some include that you'll need to use it.
16:18	ben8	I've read several of various age I guess
16:19	ben8	ah right, it's a ring function. compojure has an app function
16:20	Petruchio	I'm having trouble getting started with Leiningen. Per the instructions, I downloaded lein (to Ubuntu), ran it, and I just get the main help menu.
16:20	joobus	Petruchio: go to a scratch directory and do 'lein new app whateveritscalled'
16:21	joobus	Petruchio: it should make a new lein folder/app with all the relevant parts if lein installed correctly
16:22	Petruchio	Ah! I didn't get it... apparently it's already installed correctly, since that worked. Thanks.
16:29	EvanR	,(= false nil)
16:29	clojurebot	false
16:29	EvanR	just checking
16:29	gfredericks	,(#'= false nil)
16:29	clojurebot	false
16:29	gfredericks	oh right
16:30	Bronsa	gfredericks: did you brainfart for a second and think = was a macro or what?
16:31	gfredericks	Bronsa: yeah I confused inlining with macrotude
16:32	gfredericks	I misremembered the nature of the classic wat
16:32	Bronsa	,(#'or true true)
16:32	clojurebot	nil
16:32	gfredericks	oh also there's that other one
16:32	gfredericks	,('= false nil)
16:32	clojurebot	nil
16:32	gfredericks	still a falsy answer, but now quite the same ;-)
16:32	Bronsa	,('= true true) is more effective
16:32	clojurebot	true
16:32	gfredericks	not*
16:33	Bronsa	:< no wait.
16:33	Bronsa	,('= false true) there
16:33	clojurebot	true
16:33	stuartsierra	ugh
16:33	stuartsierra	Never do that again.
16:34	gfredericks	,(:= false true)
16:34	clojurebot	true
16:34	gfredericks	it's great that = := '= and #' are all callable
16:35	gfredericks	#'= I mean
16:35	gfredericks	,#{= := '= #'=}
16:35	clojurebot	#{= #'clojure.core/= #<core$_EQ_ clojure.core$_EQ_@88f71a> :=}
16:36	nullptr	,((juxt = := '= #'=) 1 2)
16:36	clojurebot	[false 2 2 false]
16:37	gfredericks	,(let [eqs [= := '= #'=]] ((fn [[f & args]] (apply f args)) (shuffle eqs)))
16:37	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (3) passed to: Symbol>
16:37	gfredericks	,(let [eqs [= := '= #'=]] ((fn [[f & args]] (apply f args)) (shuffle eqs)))
16:37	clojurebot	false
16:38	gfredericks	I guess that could be written a little clearer
16:38	gfredericks	,(let [eqs [= := '= #'=], [f & args] (shuffle eqs)] (apply f args))
16:38	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (3) passed to: Symbol>
16:45	l1x	joobus: i tried the netty version but it was yielding to less performance as stock compojure with jetty
16:45	ztellman	joobus: yes, it's used extensively in production, that sentence hasn't changed in three years
16:46	joobus	ztellman: thanks.
16:46	l1x	haha, i did not realize the author is here! :)
16:46	l1x	ztellman: did you measure the performance of aleph?
16:46	joobus	ztellman: I'm guessing you favor event-based architecture for web servers?
16:46	ztellman	l1x: https://github.com/ptaoussanis/clojure-web-server-benchmarks/
16:47	ztellman	joobus: I favor having the ability to do async and streaming request/responses
16:47	ztellman	but the synchronous ring model is good enough for most cases
16:48	joobus	ztellman: yeah, i'm at the point of picking one or the other for a project right now, and at this point it is a toss-up, but I don't want to limit myself down the line. Currently, I use python's twisted framework for most of my web stuff, so I am familiar with the event-based model right now.
16:49	ztellman	joobus: the concurrency model for Aleph is pretty similar to Twisted's
16:49	joobus	i know, i've been reading your/the docs :)
16:50	ztellman	well, happy to answer any questions
16:51	l1x	ztellman: thanks
16:52	joobus	i don't have any brainbusters for you today. I did just notice that benchmarks graph has looked different every time I've looked at it.
16:52	EvanR	always run it until it breaks a speed record
16:52	EvanR	then publish i
16:52	ztellman	no, we did extensive testing across all of them, with feedback from all the authors
16:53	ztellman	mostly it's just that people are actively working on improving performance
16:53	l1x	ztellman: are you familiar with this project? https://github.com/basho/basho_bench
16:53	ztellman	a lot of the approaches used by one server tend to get borrowed, too
16:53	l1x	prefer latency + throughput together on a chart when talking about performance
16:53	ztellman	l1x: latency is in the raw data
16:53	l1x	cool
16:53	l1x	thanks
17:00	Jaood	ztellman: was the reason of the improvement in performance of Aleph from May to Nov? or is it that just performs much better with big hardware?
17:01	ztellman	jaood: May was 0.3.x, November is 0.4.x
17:01	ztellman	basically a ground-up rewrite
17:01	ztellman	a lot of the improvement is from using the latest Netty
17:03	mgaare	I've been working on updating a little TCP server app that was originally on aleph 0.3 to the stack around aleph 0.4. Liking it so far
17:06	l1x	ztellman: nice!
17:06	mgaare	ztellman: it might be nice to have a link to the aleph google group somewhere in the readme, since there's a lot of useful stuff on the group that helps fill in the gaps until the documentation catches up
17:06	l1x	i am rerunning my benchmarks just noticed the new version
17:06	Jaood	ztellman: cool, thx
17:07	ztellman	l1x: here's latency metrics from an earlier run of the benchmark https://github.com/ptaoussanis/clojure-web-server-benchmarks/blob/5fd6ec249851dd9ab08e32f590929a9a2f3cced8/results/20141025-20-40.png
17:07	ztellman	it was too tedious to do it for every run
17:08	l1x	ztellman: thanks, this is exactly why i settled on basho_bench
17:08	l1x	it just 2 commands and you are done
17:09	ztellman	l1x: might be worth investigating for this, or we just write a little turd script that turns the benchmark output into a csv
17:19	l1x	ztellman: cool
17:19	l1x	ztellman: where did the wrap-ring-handler function go from aleph?
17:19	ztellman	l1x: it's gone, aleph handlers = ring handlers
17:19	ztellman	except that aleph handlers can returned a deferred response
17:20	l1x	nice one!
17:20	noonian	long time passing
17:21	l1x	ztellman: WARNING: get already refers to: #'clojure.core/get in namespace: hystrix-event-stream-clj.core, being replaced by: #'aleph.http/get
17:21	Jaood	ztellman: does Aleph implements ring-core or it implements some ring netty adapter?
17:22	ztellman	Jaood: it follows the ring spec for requests and responses
17:23	ztellman	I'm not sure if the lein plugins for Ring would work with it, last I checked they assumed servlets but that may have changed
17:27	nicferrier	can anybody think of a good way to handle async http requests with go blocks?
17:27	amalloy	l1x: that's a warning to remind you to stop using :use
17:27	ztellman	nicferrier: aleph can do that
17:27	amalloy	(or :refer :all)
17:27	ztellman	nicferrier: you just coerce the channel returned by a go block to a Manifold deferred
17:27	nicferrier	ztellman: looking, thx.
17:28	puredanger	…. said the technologically advanced alien
17:28	puredanger	seriously, that was like the nerdiest thing I heard all day ztellman
17:28	ztellman	puredanger: I try
17:28	l1x	amalloy: you are right, i have stopped using it, but this time i got the code from my co-worker and guess what :)
17:28	l1x	thanks for pointing out though
17:28	amalloy	l1x: put the fear of god into your co-worker
17:29	l1x	:D
17:29	l1x	ztellman: i see lots of 500 errors in the logs are you interested what is happening or you are aware of these ?
17:30	ztellman	l1x: this is in the webserver-benchmark?
17:30	l1x	yes
17:30	l1x	well it seems the new code is a little bit unhappy with hystrix
17:30	ztellman	l1x: I'm not aware of any issues, happy to look at any stack traces
17:31	l1x	this is weird
17:31	l1x	the performace is up ~20%
17:31	ztellman	why is hystrix being used in the benchmarks, exactly?
17:32	l1x	http://s4.postimg.org/arrpn2x4s/summary.jpg
17:32	l1x	out stack works with hystrix
17:33	ztellman	oh, this isn't the standard benchmark, it's your service, gotcha
17:33	l1x	yes, sorry, i misunderstood your question earlier
17:33	l1x	i wanted to compare our stack + aleph 0.3 vs. our stack + aleph 0.4
17:33	ztellman	I see
17:34	l1x	yeah it looks pretty sweet
17:34	ztellman	yeah, should be an across-the-board improvement
17:34	ztellman	but at that throughput maybe not too drastic
17:34	l1x	ok, i am going to figure out why hystrix is unhappy
17:34	l1x	this is on my 13" mbp
17:34	l1x	do you have any performance recommendation how to start up the service?
17:35	l1x	:max-threads 200 :min-threads 20 or something like that
17:35	ztellman	oh
17:35	ztellman	the defaults should be okay
17:35	ztellman	you can specify the executor
17:35	ztellman	check out aleph.flow
17:35	l1x	cool thanks!
17:42	arohner	l1x: FYI, the words "async", "performance" and "hystrix" are unlikely to go together well, depending on your load
17:43	arohner	(assuming you're using the default hystrix thread pool)
17:44	m1dnight_	is there a function that allows me to modify the statements in tail position of a form?
17:44	m1dnight_	im wanting to replace either all recurs (which are in tail position by definition) or otherwise the other expressions in tail position
17:45	l1x	arohner: i see, do you have any more details? we are in the initial phase of this project
17:45	l1x	so if you have more context please share it
17:45	arohner	m1dnight_: you could use a (complex, hard to write) macro to do that, but first I'd ask why
17:45	ztellman	m1dnight_: https://github.com/ztellman/vertigo/blob/master/src/vertigo/core.clj#L409-L441
17:45	arohner	l1x: hystrix runs each command in a separate thread, so then if the command times out, it just terminates the thread
17:45	m1dnight_	because i'm writing an actor library for my thesis and I have to have hooks when a receive block (which is my macro) finished
17:46	arohner	l1x: that works fine, but lots of threads = lots of context switching, which is a problem if you want "real" performance
17:47	arohner	l1x: if you care more about reliability, that's great. I'm just pointing it out because you were mentioning benchmarks
17:47	l1x	hmm i see what you mean
17:49	TimMc	arohner: Have you played around with their newer support for rx?
17:49	arohner	TimMc: no
17:49	TimMc	Previously there was no way for an Observable-emitting Hystrix command to register failure (leading to a circuit breaker trip) but I hear they've addressed that now.
17:50	l1x	arohner: what is the alternative way of handling a request lets say skip hystrix, just use a go block or something
17:50	l1x	is there a good pattern to lets say talk to a DB with a timeout and retry?
17:50	arohner	TimMc: I don't know enough about how Rx works. What is the recovery situation like? they still terminate your thread?
17:52	arohner	l1x: probably, but that depends on your DB drivers
17:52	arohner	l1x: if you need serious performance, the best way is to process all the async requests in the same thread, using NIO select
17:53	arohner	but that code is tricky to write, so I wouldn't recommend it unless you know you need it
17:57	l1x	hmm alright, i am going to investigate this more, thanks for the info
18:06	wildnux	hi, if i have a seq of objects (say eg, File objects i got using file-seq ), how do i turn the list into a map of name attribute of object and the object itself?
18:07	wildnux	i tried (map #(assoc m (.getName %) %) s)
18:07	wildnux	but it created many maps
18:08	justin_smith	what is m ?
18:08	amalloy	wildnux: you are looking for reduce
18:08	Bahman	wildnux: fold the list.
18:08	justin_smith	yeah, actually that does sound like a reduce
18:08	wildnux	justin_smith: the map is called inside let binding, m is empty map
18:10	wildnux	basically i was doing something like this: (let [s (filteredseqoffilesindir d) m {}] (map #(assoc m (.getName %) %) s))
18:11	justin_smith	,(reduce #(assoc % %2 (name %2)) {} [:a :b :c :d]) ; something like this
18:11	clojurebot	{:d "d", :c "c", :b "b", :a "a"}
18:11	justin_smith	but with (.getName %2) %2 instead
18:11	wildnux	justin_smith: cool, let me try
18:12	TimMc	arohner: Recovery situation?
18:12	justin_smith	wildnux or (group-by #(.getName %) files) - especially good if more than one file may have the same base name
18:12	wildnux	justin_smith: i tried replacing map with reduce but did not work.. probably i needed to pass empty map as well for it to fold the list
18:12	justin_smith	and it takes an extra arg, the accumulator
18:12	amalloy	it is a common beginner error to try and modify an immutable object in a for loop or a map or something
18:12	arohner	TimMc: in your Rx + hystrix situation. 'normal' hystrix terminates the thread. I was asking how Rx Hystrix recovers there
18:13	amalloy	remember that in clojure, objects never change. if m starts as {}, it will be {} forever. the way to do this sort of "incremental build-up" of an object is with a recursive function, or with reduce, which is the same thing under the hood
18:14	TimMc	arohner: Hmm, not sure. I didn't dig that much into hystrix in the first place after finding out it didn't work well with rx (at the time.)
18:15	wildnux	justin_smith: actually i am calling function on that file object so probably group-by does not work
18:15	justin_smith	why would calling a function on the file make the group-by not work?
18:15	wildnux	calling function on that object as the value of the map
18:16	justin_smith	oh, I see
18:16	wildnux	what i am trying is get list of classes from all of jar files in a directory
18:17	justin_smith	ahh, so the key is .getName and the val is some function call
18:17	wildnux	so, i have file-seq on that directory, filter jar files, create JarFile out of them and get enumeration of the contents, then again filter based on .class
18:17	wildnux	and now, i have list of classes for a single jar, i want to write a function which can give me map of jarfile name (absolute path) and the classes in them
18:17	wildnux	:)
18:19	wildnux	justin_smith: yes
18:19	justin_smith	,(into {} (map (juxt keyword #(str % (.toUpperCase %))) ["a" "b" "c"]))
18:19	clojurebot	{:a "aA", :b "bB", :c "cC"}
18:19	justin_smith	juxt / map / into will do that trick
18:20	justin_smith	actually, for is often more readable for that (but it would do the same thing)
18:20	wildnux	justin_smith: cool, let me try juxt as well
18:20	wildnux	for some reason, i have not been able to get my head around using for for looping and collecting value easily :(
18:21	justin_smith	for is not a loop
18:21	justin_smith	it's a list comprehension
18:22	wildnux	justin_smith: what is the best way to accumulate values using for?
18:22	dbasch	justin_smith: feature request: parse chat lines that have “for” and “loop” in them, and make the bot reply
18:22	justin_smith	,(into {} (for [c ["a" "b" "c"]] [(keyword c) (str c (.toUpperCase c))]))
18:22	clojurebot	{:a "aA", :b "bB", :c "cC"}
18:22	justin_smith	dbasch: that is a good one
18:22	justin_smith	though it could be annoying if you do it wrong
18:23	amalloy	~for
18:23	clojurebot	for is not a loop
18:23	dbasch	feature request: make amalloy a bot
18:24	EvanR	~though
18:24	clojurebot	Cool story bro.
18:24	wildnux	dang!
18:24	amalloy	dbasch: i did that a while ago. amalloybot was a rousing success
18:24	hyPiRion	~amalloy
18:24	clojurebot	amalloy is the spotlight illuminating my dumb mistakes
18:24	TimMc	~amalloybot
18:24	clojurebot	Cool story bro.
18:25	amalloy	apparently this was on march 10th: http://logs.lazybot.org/irc.freenode.net/%23clojure/2014-03-10.txt
18:26	justin_smith	lol, I remember it like it was yesterday
18:29	m1dnight_	Is there a particular reason that macroexpand does not do a "deep" expand?
18:29	m1dnight_	it's simply solved by (postwalk macroexpand <form>) though, but i'm not sure
18:30	ztellman	midnight_ macroexpand is for the top-level form, by definition
18:30	amalloy	m1dnight_: because it's not the compiler, and trying to be the compiler is hard
18:30	ztellman	m1dnight_ and don't use postwalk with macroexpand, that will cause issues
18:30	ztellman	https://github.com/ztellman/riddley
18:30	amalloy	postwalk macroexpand, for example, is one of those things that works great for simple cases but breaks if you try to rely on it
18:32	amalloy	ztellman: how does that compare to the stuff in tools.macro?
18:32	m1dnight_	hrm, any hints, then?
18:32	m1dnight_	I can't imagine a case where it could break too, though
18:32	ztellman	amalloy: last I checked, tools.macro didn't do inline function transformation, and didn't differentiate between expressions and non-expression forms
18:33	amalloy	m1dnight_: easy. (quote (let 1))
18:33	ztellman	m1dnight_ did you see this wen I posted it earlier? https://github.com/ztellman/vertigo/blob/master/src/vertigo/core.clj#L409-L441
18:33	m1dnight_	ztellman: Yes, that's what Im using
18:33	ztellman	I see
18:33	m1dnight_	but i'm thinking that it requires an exanded form, no?
18:33	ztellman	so yeah, use riddley.walk/macroexpand-all
18:33	ztellman	and apply that
18:33	ztellman	that's what the code surrounding the quoted region does
18:33	amalloy	that's a perfectly fine expression, which produces the list (let 1). but if you postwalk macroexpand, it will break because it doesn't understand quoting
18:34	m1dnight_	oh, I did not notice the macroexpand-all
18:34	m1dnight_	:) sorry
18:34	ztellman	no worries
18:35	amalloy	ztellman: expressions and non-expression forms? i think i understand the difference between those two things but not what tools.macro does wrong with them
18:35	ztellman	amalloy: oh, I just meant that tools.macro didn't give you a way to walk expressions and transform them
18:36	ztellman	w.r.t. macorexpansion I think the issue is only inline functions
18:36	amalloy	inline functions?
18:36	amalloy	oh
18:36	amalloy	inlined functions :P
18:36	ztellman	:inline functions
18:36	ztellman	not handling that will break pervasive transforms pretty badly, sometimes
18:36	amalloy	yeah, fair enough, that seems like it could matter
18:37	amalloy	actually i just remembered another issue with tools.macro that is pretty interesting. i wonder if riddley handles it right
18:37	ztellman	file an issue if not
18:38	ztellman	amalloy: oh, and tools.macro passes in a nil &env, too
18:38	ztellman	again, last time I checked
18:39	amalloy	ztellman: yeah, pretty sure it does
18:39	amalloy	ztellman: riddley doesn't have macrolet, does it?
18:39	ztellman	amalloy: it trivailly could
18:40	ztellman	trivially*
18:40	amalloy	macrolet is like the only thing in tools.macro i use
18:40	ztellman	I just haven't needed it
18:40	amalloy	ztellman: (macrolet [(m [x] `(case ~x ~@(mapcat (partial repeat 2) (range 10))))] (m 9)) is a way to reproduce the problem in tools.macro
18:40	amalloy	it doesn't break for numbers smaller than 10 and 9, which is the fun part
18:41	Bronsa	amalloy: ouch. sorted map -> hash map
18:41	amalloy	Bronsa: yep
18:41	Bronsa	amalloy: I don't think that's tools.macro's fault
18:41	amalloy	Bronsa: yeah it is
18:41	Bronsa	uh ok.
18:41	amalloy	tools.macro implements something like postwalk, and does it via like (cond (map? x) (into {} (map ... x)))
18:42	Bronsa	ah, gotcha
18:42	Bronsa	,(defmacro x [] (sorted-map 1 1))
18:42	clojurebot	#'sandbox/x
18:42	Bronsa	,(class (x))
18:42	clojurebot	clojure.lang.PersistentArrayMap
18:42	Bronsa	i thought it was a case of that ^
18:42	amalloy	i don't think so
18:43	amalloy	because the sorted map emitted by the macroexpansion of case is consumed by case* at macro time, not emitted to be eval'd
18:43	Bronsa	yeah, makes sense
18:45	ztellman	amalloy: I do handle that case correctly
18:45	ztellman	I ended up getting bit by it in automat
18:45	amalloy	ztellman: anyway, feature request: add macrolet, c'mon how can you be a macro library without macrolet
18:46	ztellman	amalloy: https://github.com/ztellman/riddley/blob/master/src/riddley/walk.clj#L161
18:46	ztellman	yeah, ok
18:50	amalloy	ztellman: is a special-cased handler for case really the right way to do this? what if someone else writes a macro like case that needs to emit a sorted map for consumption by something else?
18:50	ztellman	amalloy: this is the underlying case* map
18:51	ztellman	if they want to handle sorted-map specially, they can define a special handler for whatever their scope is
18:52	ztellman	since we don't know what the comparator is, that's the only way we can do it
18:52	amalloy	i see, you first go through their predicate/handler function
18:53	ztellman	amalloy: right, and if the predicate fires, I don't descend any further
18:53	ztellman	you can have scoped transforms
18:54	chouser	What if I want to write some transit data, but for any object that doesn't have a write handler, I'd like to just write out a special symbol, like 'unwritable. That should be possible, right?
18:55	amalloy	ztellman: what about https://github.com/ztellman/riddley/blob/master/src/riddley/walk.clj#L242-L243 ? it won't trigger this case/case* issue because you handle that separately. but if i want to transform some of my code, and it's inside of a map that's sorted and needs to stay sorted, i don't want to have to handle that myself
18:56	ztellman	amalloy: you can halt the walk when you find a sorted map
18:56	ztellman	unless (empty sorted-map) retains the comparator?
18:56	ztellman	in which case I should change that
18:56	Bronsa	ztellman: it does
18:56	ztellman	oh!
18:57	ztellman	ok, new release forthcoming soon
18:57	amalloy	lovely
18:58	amalloy	ztellman: you can enjoy the shiny new features in 1.4 by using mapv here, too: https://github.com/ztellman/riddley/blob/master/src/riddley/walk.clj#L237
18:58	ztellman	amalloy: eh, I'll use (into (empty x) ...) just to make sure I retain whatever weirdo vector type it is, too
19:01	amalloy	,(var inc dec)
19:01	clojurebot	#'clojure.core/inc
19:01	amalloy	very funny, clojure
19:04	amalloy	ztellman: why is walkable? defined the way it is? is it intended to roughly correspond to "forms which could possibly be macro invocations" or what? it seems weird to say "sequential but not a vector or a map entry"
19:04	amalloy	ie, it looks kinda like a weird way to write the function seq?
19:04	ztellman	amalloy: I'm pretty sure walkable? means expression-ish
19:05	ztellman	yeah, it's only used by walk-exprs
19:05	ztellman	poor name
19:06	amalloy	i don't get expression-ish at all. vectors are expression-ish, in that they are actual expressions
19:08	amalloy	if you just used seq? instead of defining walkable? i think you'd be fine; all the uses of walkable? that exist seem to be using it to check for a special form
19:08	ztellman	amalloy: it's been a while since I looked at this code, I recall some reason seq? wasn't good enough
19:08	ztellman	just not what it was
19:08	ztellman	and I may have been wrong
19:10	amalloy	i worry because Sequential is an open interface, of course, so someone can write a sequential thing which is neither a vector nor a seq, so that you'll think it's walkable but the compiler wouldn't actually treat it as a macro invocation
19:10	ztellman	fair point
19:26	crispin	hi there crew!
19:26	crispin	I cant get command-line-args to work
19:26	crispin	I want to get the name of the executable, argv[0] in other languages
19:26	crispin	if I (defn -main [& args]
19:27	crispin	args is everything but the first argument
19:27	crispin	if I use command-line-args, the same thing with lein run, and nil with a binary
19:27	crispin	how do you get the name of the executable
19:28	crispin	Im using "lein bin" to make a standalone executable
19:29	crispin	https://github.com/Raynes/lein-bin
19:30	crispin	$ lein run arg1 arg2
19:30	crispin	Program: arg1
19:31	crispin	$ target/binary arg1 arg2
19:31	crispin	Program: nil
19:34	crispin	http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Program_name#Clojure
19:35	crispin	^ this doesnt work
19:35	justin_smith	crispin: with a *nix type system, you should find it via (System/getenv "_")
19:35	justin_smith	,(System/getenv "_")
19:35	clojurebot	#<AccessControlException java.security.AccessControlException: access denied (java.lang.RuntimePermission getenv._)>
19:35	crispin	yeah its unix... let me try
19:37	crispin	$ lein run arg1 arg2
19:37	crispin	Program: /usr/bin/java
19:37	crispin	$ target/binary arg1 arg2
19:37	crispin	Program: nil
19:37	crispin	works with leiningen. Doesn't work with standalone
19:38	crispin	but good idea to use java interop
19:38	justin_smith	OK. Try printing the output of (System/getenv) from the standalone, there may be some env key
19:38	justin_smith	if it's anywhere at all that is
19:40	crispin	justin_smith: nope
19:40	crispin	has SHELL, and PWD
19:40	crispin	but no executable name
19:40	crispin	sheeeeet :P Am I gonna have to look up the PID in /proc?
19:40	crispin	blech
19:41	justin_smith	that's weird, because I know for a fact that the shell puts that info into env for the java process
19:41	justin_smith	so I don't know why java is hiding it from you...
19:41	crispin	it could be a side effect of lein bin
19:41	crispin	now the header of the self executable is...
19:41	crispin	:;exec java -XX:+TieredCompilation -XX:TieredStopAtLevel=1 -client -Droll.version=0.1.0-SNAPSHOT -jar $0 "$@"
19:41	crispin	@echo off
19:41	crispin	java -XX:+TieredCompilation -XX:TieredStopAtLevel=1 -client -Droll.version=0.1.0-SNAPSHOT -jar %1 "%~f0" %*
19:41	crispin	goto :eof
19:42	crispin	but I dont see how thats removing the /usr/bin/java
19:44	crispin	I think it must be an issue with lein-bin
19:45	crispin	will open an issue on the project and see what comes out of it
19:47	justin_smith	if nothing else, you should be able to modify that header to pass in the executable name
19:51	crispin	submitted ticket: https://github.com/Raynes/lein-bin/issues/19
19:51	crispin	yes, thanks for your help justin_smith
19:52	justin_smith	cool info of the day "You can get anyone's SSH pubkey from GitHub via https://github.com/USERNAME.keys . Handy for giving people access to servers."
19:53	dbasch	(inc justin_smith) great to know
19:54	dbasch	(inc _)
19:54	lazybot	⇒ 1
19:54	dbasch	(inc justin_smith)
19:54	lazybot	⇒ 160
20:29	crack_user	hey guys
20:30	crack_user	some one have a good article about clojure immutability internals?
20:31	justin_smith	hyPiRion has a good series of blog posts on persistentvector
20:31	TimMc	++ to that, good series
20:31	justin_smith	http://hypirion.com/musings/understanding-persistent-vector-pt-1
20:32	justin_smith	(inc hyPiRion)
20:32	lazybot	⇒ 57
20:33	TimMc	(inc hyPiRion)
20:33	lazybot	⇒ 58
20:36	triss	so just to double check in clojure the theory for the most part is to keep all the do and doseq etc in the applicaion level of code?
20:38	triss	you would try not to hide these in he api and make sure its happens from a single place?
20:38	triss	or am I not getting FP?
20:40	ztellman	triss: it depends if the library needs to do side effects
20:40	ztellman	if they're interacting with Java libraries, they often do
20:40	triss	ah ok... coz thats exactly what i've been doing
20:40	triss	just had a little panic there...
20:41	triss	so this "virtual dom" idea... is that becoming really common in libs too?
20:42	triss	but mapped across different objects?
20:42	triss	the code I'm writing is fast becoming a library
20:43	triss	and I can't really work if there any best practices you could folllow for wrappng oo code
20:44	triss	^wrapping oo java/js code in clojure style clothing
20:50	NoCreativity	Hello people
20:51	NoCreativity	Im trying to use clojure.java.jdbc and reuse a transaction, but something is going wrong and my transaction loses connection with database before I can insert all data. Does anybody has any tips ?
20:51	gratimax	can you confirm that you are actually connected to the database for some period of time
20:52	justin_smith	NoCreativity: also, that symptom can be caused by trying to use a lazy operation like map or for inside a db operation
20:52	NoCreativity	gratimax: yes! I have an answer from it with the generated primary key
20:52	justin_smith	where by the time the laziness is forced, you are no longer in the transaction context
20:52	NoCreativity	justin_smith: Aw jeez
20:52	justin_smith	so be sure you aren't doing anything lazy in the db
20:53	NoCreativity	justin_smith: Im trying to use for
20:53	justin_smith	OK, wrap it in a doall
20:53	justin_smith	or use doseq instead of for
20:53	justin_smith	laziness and resource lifetimes don't play nicely together
20:53	gratimax	well you got to it before I did :P
20:53	NoCreativity	Thx a lot, guys!
20:53	NoCreativity	I will try here
20:57	crack_user	can I convert clojure symbol to string?
20:57	justin_smith	,(name 'sym)
20:57	clojurebot	"sym"
20:57	gfredericks	,(name 'com.gfredericks.forks.org.clojure.test.check.generators.properties/cats)
20:57	clojurebot	"cats"
20:59	crack_user	the ' does the symbol not evaluate?
20:59	justin_smith	,''cats
20:59	clojurebot	(quote cats)
20:59	justin_smith	it's a read syntax for quote
20:59	justin_smith	which gives you a symbol, instead of resolving it
21:00	justin_smith	,'''cats
21:00	clojurebot	(quote (quote cats))
21:00	justin_smith	s/symbol/value
21:01	crack_user	it makes sense
21:07	gfredericks	,(cycle '(boots cats))
21:07	clojurebot	(boots cats boots cats boots ...)
21:10	gfredericks	help I'm about to write a custom data structure
21:14	amalloy	gfredericks: put down the keyboard and back away slowly
21:15	NoCreativity	Im so stupid
21:15	NoCreativity	:(
21:15	NoCreativity	(sql/db-set-rollback-only! t-con)
21:16	NoCreativity	It would never commit my stuff
21:17	NoCreativity	Well... btw... I think I need more 4clojure training and reading... :( Again, thank you guys! It made my night. =] Now I'm happy again.
21:18	gfredericks	maybe I'll just start with a sorted set
21:19	justin_smith	NoCreativity: actually, since none of 4clojure deals with side effects, the gotchas of lazy-seqs are not really covered I don't think
21:19	NoCreativity	justin_smith: hmmm... Okay. This made me feel better! =D
21:20	NoCreativity	justin_smith: Well... I think these relational databases are going to help me somehow on learning datastructure functions to build data the way I want.
21:20	NoCreativity	I hope Im right. ^ ^
21:38	TimMc	gfredericks: Stop it you're making me want to pick up Overtone again!
21:39	TimMc	boots and cats and boots and cats and boots and boots and boots and cats
21:39	gfredericks	TimMc: huh? like to play boots and cats?
21:39	TimMc	generative music in general
21:40	gfredericks	,(repeatedly #(rand-nth '(boots boots cats)))
21:40	clojurebot	(cats boots boots cats boots ...)
21:42	TimMc	That generates long stretches of the same word.
21:43	TimMc	,(sort-by key (frequencies (map count (partition-by identity (repeatedly 100 #(rand-nth '(boots boots cats)))))))
21:43	clojurebot	([1 18] [2 9] [3 4] [4 4] [5 1] ...)
21:44	TimMc	True randomness is less satisfying.
21:46	justin_smith	TimMc: yeah, algorithmic composition code is often full of stuff like (repeat (+ x (rand-int y)) z)
21:46	justin_smith	though Xenakis was fond of requiring that events in his compositions fit a poisson distribution
21:47	justin_smith	he was an outlier though
21:47	justin_smith	(he also made the first GUI for making music with)
21:49	gfredericks	okay I have no idea how sorted-set-by works
21:50	gfredericks	,(def self (sorted-set-by #(> %1 %2)))
21:50	godd2	gfredericks you mean what it does or how it does what it does?
21:50	clojurebot	#'sandbox/self
21:50	gfredericks	,(conj self 5 1 4 2 3)
21:50	amalloy	gfredericks: it takes a comparator, not a predicate
21:50	clojurebot	#{5 4 3 2 1}
21:50	amalloy	right?
21:50	gfredericks	,(def self (sorted-set-by #(compare %1 %2)))
21:50	clojurebot	#'sandbox/self
21:50	gfredericks	,(conj self 5 1 4 2 3)
21:50	clojurebot	#{1 2 3 4 5}
21:50	gfredericks	,(def self (sorted-set-by #(compare %2 %1)))
21:50	clojurebot	#'sandbox/self
21:50	gfredericks	,(conj self 5 1 4 2 3)
21:50	clojurebot	#{5 4 3 2 1}
21:50	gfredericks	I don't get this behavior at my repl
21:51	gfredericks	oh I bet it's that damn puget
21:51	amalloy	gfredericks: your pretty-printer is evil
21:51	amalloy	what is the draw of puget? so far all i've heard about it is weird bugs
21:52	justin_smith	PRETTY COLORS
21:52	gfredericks	compared to no pretty printer or to some other one I don't know about?
21:52	amalloy	compared to no pretty printer
21:52	gfredericks	you must never deal with data
21:53	amalloy	i manually pprint the things i want pretty
21:53	amalloy	it's not onerous
21:54	gfredericks	we each have our own stockholm syndrome
21:54	amalloy	i suppose so. but everyone else's is dumb
21:55	justin_smith	~everyone else \|is\| dumb
21:55	clojurebot	'Sea, mhuise.
21:55	gfredericks	so if I want to handle generic unicode "characters" I'm gonna use length-1-or-2 Strings is that accurate? or maybe int I guess?
21:56	justin_smith	gfredericks: the jvm native representation is 32 bit, right?
21:57	justin_smith	so, thanks to sign issues, I would think you would need a long
21:57	TimMc	gfredericks: Is this a regex generator thing?
21:57	gfredericks	TimMc: generator from a regex
21:58	gfredericks	justin_smith: oh snapchat maybe so; I'll just stick with strings
22:02	TimMc	"oh snapchat"
22:03	gfredericks	that's what the kids say these days right?
22:04	TimMc	I think so
22:14	andyf	gfredericks: Max code point fits in 20 or 21 bits so int is enough
22:14	gfredericks	andyf: why would justin_smith lie to me?
22:15	andyf	Yeah, still working out some kinks in his OS
22:17	andyf	There was a proposal for Unicode lib sent to clojure-Dev in early Oct 2014 . Not sure if it would have anything of use for you
22:18	justin_smith	andyf: wait, I thought it was a 32 bit representation?
22:18	gfredericks	oh the connection between code points and surrogats is nontrivial isn't it
22:18	gfredericks	sourroguhts
22:18	gfredericks	sourguts
22:18	gfredericks	soregum
22:19	andyf	Depends on what you call trivial :-). Just a bit of shifting and anding/prong
22:19	andyf	*ORing
22:19	justin_smith	"Characters whose code points are greater than U+FFFF are called supplementary characters. The Java platform uses the UTF-16 representation in char arrays and in the String and StringBuffer classes. In this representation, supplementary characters are represented as a pair of char values, the first from the high-surrogates range, (\uD800-\uDBFF), the second from the low-surrogates range (\uDC00-\uDFFF)."
22:19	justin_smith	http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/lang/Character.html
22:20	justin_smith	so it uses UTF-16, but some characters require 2 Chars
22:20	andyf	Wikipedia pages are decent for Unicode info, too
22:21	gfredericks	justin_smith: right but the code point representation is still small
22:21	gfredericks	looks like max is ##16r10FFFF
22:21	andyf	Check out Wikipedia for code point
22:21	gfredericks	,16r10FFFF
22:21	clojurebot	1114111
22:22	gfredericks	~1114111 is totes intsable
22:22	clojurebot	Ok.
22:22	justin_smith	Unicode comprises 1,114,112 code points in the range 0hex to 10FFFFhex
22:22	justin_smith	yeah
22:22	gfredericks	half of which are snowmen characters
22:22	justin_smith	,Integer/MAX_VALUE
22:22	clojurebot	2147483647
22:24	andyf	Yeah, we're good until meeting the pangalactic empire, but then different tech will be available
22:24	TEttinger	andyf, if star wars has taught me anything it's that they'll speak either english or huttese.
22:25	TEttinger	or unpronounceable rawrs
22:25	justin_smith	with occasional reverse-polish grammar
22:25	andyf	There is a how to speak wookie book with push buttons to make sounds. Hilarious
22:28	andyf	Amazon reviews for it are even entertaining
22:28	TimMc	There are entertaining Amazon reviews for toilet paper, to be fair.
22:28	TimMc	and gallon jugs of milk
22:29	TimMc	gfredericks: I'm intrigued that the max unicode char is a palindrome in decimal.
22:29	TimMc	s/char/code point/
22:29	gfredericks	TimMc: numbers! how do they work!
22:30	TimMc	,[16r10FF 16r10FFF 16r10FFFF 16r10FFFFF]
22:30	clojurebot	[4351 69631 1114111 17825791]
22:30	rritoch	justin_smith: I completed the reg_assoc function and the re-ungreedy, though I did end up needing to use a parser, I couldn't find a regex that would do the job. https://github.com/rritoch/andylisp/blob/master/src/clj/andylisp/regex.clj
22:32	gfredericks	TimMc: did you know that numbers that look like 100010001000100010001 are never prime?
22:33	gfredericks	no wait
22:33	gfredericks	that's probably false
22:33	andyf	The matches a short regex primes conjecture?
22:34	gfredericks	,(apply str (repeat (rand-int 10) (rand-int 19389243)))
22:34	clojurebot	""
22:34	gfredericks	,(apply str (repeat (rand-int 10) (rand-int 19389243)))
22:34	clojurebot	"90907769090776909077690907769090776909077690907769090776"
22:34	gfredericks	^ that sort of number
22:34	gfredericks	is never prime
22:35	gfredericks	okay this numeric approach makes it a lot simpler
22:37	andyf	I don't have the heart to tell you that there are undefined holes in the range of code points, and those change from one JDK to the next as more are defined.
22:37	andyf	But I don't think that should need to affect your random gen fn
22:41	gfredericks	test.check will tell me if anything weird happens
22:43	andyf	I choose to interpret that as: nothing weird happened before test.check was created
22:50	TimMc	gfredericks: If there's anything I've learned from the tiny bit of number theory I've been exposed to, it's that you can't make provable statements about prime numbers. :-P
22:50	TimMc	except that there are lots f them
22:50	justin_smith	"60 is not prime"
22:51	TimMc	there's an xkcd for this
22:51	rritoch	TimMc: Prime numbers are evil, as are the supposed "rules" about them, most of the rules you'll run into are simply invalid, like the ln(x) approaching Pi(x) as you near infinity.
22:51	TimMc	http://xkcd.com/1310/ "Goldbach Conjectures"
22:52	TimMc	rritoch: And yet they're the atoms of the number world.
22:52	rritoch	TimMc: If I recall correctly, the zeta function is the only thing in prime number theory that has provided significant results.
22:53	TimMc	The zeta function has led to significant advances in the field of fragmentary ceramics.
22:54	rritoch	TimMc: I spent a few weeks trying to crack the Pi function. I had this idea that maybe I could find a power that would match the Pi function. I found that no matter what I chose it would curl away from the real value, so I made an adjustment that would curl to ln(x) at some number in the distant future of the pattern. It probably would have worked if the rule about ln(x) was true
22:54	rritoch	TimMc: Since the ln(x) rule isn't true, it failed miserably
22:55	TimMc	"psychoceramics", that's the phrase
22:56	gfredericks	"The limit of the quotient of the two functions pi(x) and x/ln(x) as x approaches infinity is 1
22:56	gfredericks	"
22:56	rritoch	gfredericks: Yes, that statement is false
22:57	rritoch	gfredericks: x/ln(x) eventually crosses over pi(x)
22:57	TimMc	Where?
22:58	TimMc	Reminds me of being given the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%B3lya_conjecture as an extra credit assignment (but not by name)
22:58	rritoch	TimMc: I really don't know. I don't have enough computing resources to prove it, but that was the explaination I received from experts in number theory as to why curling to it didn't work.
22:59	gfredericks	finite behavior doesn't prove anything about assymptotic behavior
22:59	rritoch	TimMc: Either way, if you solve Pi(x) you solve the P(x) function, and to me Pi(x) seems easier to solve, but it's still not solved.
22:59	gfredericks	what's P(x)?
22:59	rritoch	gfredericks: The nth prime
22:59	gfredericks	ah right
23:01	rritoch	TimMc: Anyhow, my point is, take much of what you learn in number theory with a grain of salt, they are just theories, and many of them have recently been disproven, but the information hasn't fully disseminated.
23:01	TimMc	hmm
23:01	gfredericks	o_O
23:02	rritoch	TimMc: In my case, I wasted a few weeks trying to solve a nearly unsolvable problem using inaccurate information. It wasn't until I consulted the experts that I found my error.
23:03	rritoch	TimMc: They suggested I look into the zeta function, but my frustration was at the level that I really had to drop that project.
23:03	Fare	hi. Is there an easy way to build a map that mirrors the deconstructor {:keys [a b c d]} ?
23:03	Fare	of course, I could write a defmacro to do the same...
23:03	gfredericks	Fare: some util libs have a macro for it
23:03	Fare	ok
23:03	TimMc	Fare: Yeah, flatland/useful has something for that, right?
23:04	TimMc	https://github.com/flatland/useful/blob/develop/src/flatland/useful/map.clj#L9
23:04	TimMc	keyed
23:12	rritoch	TimMc: If your interested, this is the "project" https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/epic-fail-trying-to-solve-p-x.614121/
23:18	rritoch	TimMc: The real problem with my attempt is there is no solution to the cosine integral, so I hit a dead-end.
23:19	gfredericks	rritoch: is that reply there what you mean about the earlier statement of the prime number theorem being wrong?
23:20	rritoch	gfredericks: Yes.
23:21	gfredericks	it doesn't seem like a contradiction to me
23:21	gfredericks	crossing over doesn't mean not approaching
23:23	rritoch	gfredericks: According to the response it doesn't approach Pi(x), it wraps around it, similar to the behavior of my function for low values of Pi(x). What I needed for my function is a case where the limit of the function approaches Pi(x) as x approaches infinity.
23:24	gfredericks	rritoch: well the limit of the quotients approaching 1 doesn't mean that they actually approach each other, and the crossing over doesn't contradict either of those
23:24	rritoch	gfredericks: It wasn't a complete loss though because if the cosine integral is solved, the accuracy of my formula could be further improved.
23:26	rritoch	gfredericks: I don't know where you learned math but x/x = 1
23:26	tuft_	core.match goes really nicely with instaparse
23:26	rritoch	gfredericks: I can't think of any other case where that's true
23:26	amalloy	rritoch: for most x, anyway
23:27	gfredericks	rritoch: e.g., x/(x+1) approaches 1 but x does not approach x+1
23:28	gfredericks	so pi(x)/(x/ln(x)) approaches one but x/ln(x) does not approach pi(x)
23:30	rritoch	gfredericks: I accounted for this "issue" by curling to x/ln(x) at something like x^10, so if the prime number theory held the deviation would have been less than .01
23:31	rritoch	gfredericks: Either way, the number was very large so it could have been floating point errors that caused some of my problems.
23:34	rritoch	gfredericks: Since clojure promotes to Big types I'm somewhat curios how reducing the floating point errors would improve the results for large primes, but I've already invested enough time in that project. I'm just waiting for someone to solve the cosine integral.
23:47	gfredericks	help I'm using a sorted-set with a partial ordering
23:48	andyf	sounds like an invitation to disaster.
23:48	andyf	help you create a total order instead, or some other way?
23:49	gfredericks	I was hoping somebody would tell me to back slowly away from the keyboadr
23:49	gfredericks	keyboard
23:50	gfredericks	andyf: I'm trying to store unions ranges of numbers (characters) efficiently
23:50	andyf	I?d recommend sending the RSVP with the answer ?no? back to disaster.
23:50	hiredman	sure, you could use a total order, but wouldn't you rather experience the rush of living like there is no tomorrow?
23:51	gfredericks	andyf: so if I do it right there shouldn't ever be two incomparable elements in a set together
23:52	andyf	elements of the set are contiguous ranges like [10,15], or elements of the set are sets of contiguous ranges?
23:52	gfredericks	the former
23:52	rritoch	gfredericks: Sets have a map impl, it "should" be possible to create a map with the behaviors you want, and then use that as the impl for the set. I dug into the source code of sets because I was looking into how to establish equality criteria in sets.
23:53	andyf	What operations do you want to do on such sets efficiently?
23:54	gfredericks	union, difference, count, nth
23:54	gfredericks	and right not I'd settle for "eh sorta efficiently"
23:54	gfredericks	in the sense of ignoring the worst-case assymptotics
23:54	gfredericks	s/not/now/
23:55	andyf	Maybe just implement union and difference so that the contiguous ranges are always non-overlapping?
23:55	gfredericks	right that's what I'm doing
23:55	andyf	So the elements can always be compared by the beginnings of their ranges, or the ends, and you have a total order?
23:56	gfredericks	yeah within the set it's a total order
23:56	gfredericks	just not over the whole space of possible elements
23:57	andyf	you want to compare two sets-of-contiguous-ranges and put them as elements into a sorted set?
23:58	gfredericks	I'm only using sorted sets for this
23:58	gfredericks	specifically (sorted-set-by (fn [[x1 x2] [x3 x4]] (if (< x2 x3) -1 (if (< x4 x1) 1 0))))
23:58	gfredericks	so I don't know what you mean by "put into"
23:59	andyf	if the contiguous ranges are always kept non-overlapping, then I don't see the problem yet.
23:59	andyf	e.g. if you implement union so that #{[1 5] [8 10]} with #{[4 9]} so that the result is #{[1 10]}