#clojure – 2014-12-10

2014-12-10

00:03	irctc	hi
00:04	irctc	I was wondering if someone could tell me why this seemingly basic program (6 lines) doesn't work as intended http://lpaste.net/116138
00:06	irctc	I guess everyone is sleeping
00:06	irctc	I'll try again tomorrow
00:06	irctc	tired anyway
00:06	gfredericks	irctc: conj isn't side-effecting
00:07	gfredericks	it returns a new data structure, which you're ignoring
00:07	irctc	so I need to use something else or take in the new structure?
00:07	gfredericks	use the new structure
00:07	irctc	how'
00:08	gfredericks	depends on what you're trying to do; your whole example is based on side effects which is not the normal style of programming
00:08	irctc	I'm trying to add data to a vector, then sort the vector and print the head
00:09	irctc	the data comes from input
00:09	irctc	so I have to add incrementally
00:09	irctc	I can do this very easily but I don't seem to understand just the data gathering
00:10	irctc	(I've tested the rest of the program and it works)
00:12	irctc	thanks for the hint I'll keep googling
01:27	Javran	大白兔!
01:27	Javran	sorry wrong channel
01:39	justin_smith	$mail irctc the easy way to do it is to make the vector an extra loop parameter, and put the conj inside the recur. Also, look up peristent data strucures, immutibility is one of the most fundamental concepts in Clojure.
01:39	lazybot	Message saved.
02:15	dysfun	there's got to be a better way to debug macros than macroexpand and friends
02:16	justin_smith	having as little code as possible inside macros, and doing the real work in functions?
02:24	fairuz	Hi guys. I've seen a lot of #( ... ). Is this some syntatic sugar to something? I suspected it's the same thing as (fn [] ...) ?
02:24	justin_smith	,'#(+ % %)
02:24	clojurebot	(fn* [p1__25#] (+ p1__25# p1__25#))
02:25	justin_smith	,'#(apply + %&)
02:25	clojurebot	(fn* [& rest__50#] (apply + rest__50#))
02:26	fairuz	cool
02:27	fairuz	,'(+ 1 2)
02:27	clojurebot	(+ 1 2)
02:27	fairuz	,'#(+ 1 2)
02:27	clojurebot	(fn* [] (+ 1 2))
02:27	fairuz	,'#(+ 1 %)
02:27	clojurebot	(fn* [p1__123#] (+ 1 p1__123#))
02:27	fairuz	cool got it. Thanks!
02:28	fairuz	pretty neat
02:28	justin_smith	yeah, quote is often handy for figuring out anything with a # in it
02:28	justin_smith	(that is, reader things)
02:29	fairuz	ah ok
02:29	fairuz	but why the * at fn* ?
02:29	justin_smith	fn* is the underlying implementation of fn
02:30	fairuz	ah ok
02:31	justin_smith	it is almost identical, except it doesn't do the same destructuring - if you look at the source to fn, it's a complicated macro constructing a call to fn*
02:32	justin_smith	it also handles things like :pre and :post
02:37	fairuz	Just want to shoot my question about Liberator's defresource here. I have this :location #(build-entry-url (get % :request) (get % ::id)) in my defresource. How it knows what to put as the functions arguments? In this case I assume there are 2 since there are 2 %
02:39	seancorfield	fairuz: no, that's just one argument
02:39	seancorfield	% is the same as %1
02:39	seancorfield	multiple arguments would be %1 %2 etc
02:39	fairuz	oh
02:39	fairuz	new thing again :) thanks
02:39	fairuz	neat neat
02:40	seancorfield	so it calls build-entry-url with two arguments, the :request key of the argument and the :id key of the argument
02:41	dysfun	justin_smith: well yeah, of course i've minimised them, but the output looks fine...
02:42	fairuz	seancorfield: ok
02:42	fairuz	,'#(% %1 %2)
02:42	andyf	dysfun: Colin Fleming might be working on some enhancements to Cursive to show macro-expansions step by step
02:42	clojurebot	(fn* [p1__25# p2__26#] (p1__25# p1__25# p2__26#))
02:42	andyf	dysfun: pprint can help longer macro expansions look a bit more readable.
02:42	schrotti	hm has someone advise on how to conditionally load namespaces or resources? currently i use an env variable and the load fn, to load a .clj file with definitions into a namespace. i'd like to do this to make the app more modular and to easily add support for other storage backends.
02:44	justin_smith	schrotti: better to define a multimethod or protocol, and use the implementation that the runtime code passes in
02:44	schrotti	justin_smith: i'm using protocols already
02:45	dysfun	andyf: that sounds promising
02:45	dysfun	https://www.refheap.com/6ddc06df791b72447725807f9 # if you try to even (macroexpand '(dev-prelude)) it complains with an error. i can't for the life of me figure out why
02:45	dysfun	i've stepped through all the individual macro invocations and i can't see what the problem is
02:46	justin_smith	schrotti: in that case, code to the protocol functions, and that way the decision of which impl to use is isolated to one place in the code. You can use a change in classpath to determine which impl gets loaded.
02:46	schrotti	justin_smith: but how to define which implementation should be used during runtime? i don't like to throw conditional statements in everywhere. and theres also the problem how the storage backends access tables/keys.
02:47	andyf	dysfun: :Private should be :private, but I doubt that is the issue.
02:47	justin_smith	so instead of having everything in src/ you can also have foo-backend/bar/storage_impl.clj and quux-backend/bar/storage_impl.clj and decide at launch which is on the classpath
02:47	justin_smith	that is going to be a lot cleaner than conditional load
02:47	dysfun	andyf: yeah, it'd be nice if that one was flagged up heh
02:47	andyf	I don?t know if it is kosher to use ~ or ~@ with a macro inside ? never tried it.
02:48	dysfun	hrm, i just assumed it would work tbh
02:49	schrotti	justin_smith: but i don't understand how to implement the decision which one should be on the classpath, tried it already with require
02:50	andyf	it might. I just don?t recall seeing it before, and don?t know what happens.
02:50	dysfun	,(defmacro tm [] `(println ~(quote foo)))
02:50	clojurebot	#'sandbox/tm
02:50	dysfun	(macroexpand '(tm))
02:50	dysfun	,(macroexpand '(tm))
02:50	clojurebot	(clojure.core/println foo)
02:50	schrotti	justin_smith: is it possible that you can provide me a small example?
02:50	dysfun	andyf: looks like ~ works
02:51	dysfun	well, quote is a special form i suppose
02:51	justin_smith	schrotti: it would be a question of launch profiles (easiest to do via lein) lein with-profile :foo run where foo adds foo-backend/ to the source-paths
02:52	schrotti	justin_smith: ah thanks now i understand
02:52	justin_smith	example of profile-specific paths setup here https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/master/sample.project.clj#L160
02:52	amalloy	andyf: ` and ~ are just reader shorthands for functions that build lists. there's no reason they would care whether there's a macro involved
02:54	sm0ke	how do i call a super method in a deftype?
02:55	dysfun	sm0ke: a super method? are you sure?
02:55	justin_smith	sm0ke: I don't know - I don't even know if it is possible actually. But proxy has proxy-super.
02:55	justin_smith	dysfun: well, deftype can inherit
02:55	sm0ke	yep proxy has , gen-class also has :expose or something
02:55	dysfun	justin_smith: since when?
02:56	justin_smith	oh wait, deftype can't do concrete inheritance, only protocols and interfaces
02:56	justin_smith	my bad
02:56	amalloy	the first problem i see with dysfun's dev-prelude is that midje.sweet gets namespace-qualified to like clojure.core/midje.sweet
02:56	dysfun	nice spot
02:56	justin_smith	sm0ke: so there's your answer: you can't call the super, because there is no way to have a super
02:57	dysfun	however, that doesn't fix it :/
02:57	sm0ke	,(deftype Foo [] Object)
02:57	clojurebot	sandbox.Foo
02:57	amalloy	dysfun: "it complains with an error" is a complaint i generally decline to do anything with
02:57	dysfun	sm0ke: when you're doing undocumented things, you get to keep the pieces
02:57	justin_smith	sm0ke: Object is special cased, not as a superclass, but just to let you override methods on Object
02:58	dysfun	amalloy: how about "it complains with IllegalArgumentException Don't know how to create ISeq from: clojure.lang.Var clojure.lang.RT.seqFrom (RT.java:505)" ?
02:58	amalloy	the errors are printed because they're useful; saying there's an error but not gisting it is just teasing
02:58	amalloy	dysfun: better, but a whole stacktrace would be much easier
02:58	dysfun	sorry, i didn't realise i wasn't being helpful enough
02:58	dysfun	how can i generate you a stacktrace?
02:58	justin_smith	clojure.repl/pst is the easy way
02:59	amalloy	dysfun: (.printStackTrace e out*), immediately after your failing call to macroexpand
02:59	amalloy	pst is evil
02:59	justin_smith	why is that?
02:59	dysfun	https://www.refheap.com/94664
02:59	amalloy	justin_smith: it tries to be too smart
02:59	amalloy	hides a lot of useful information
02:59	justin_smith	I had no idea
03:00	amalloy	see? that output came from pst, and it's useless garbage
03:00	amalloy	dysfun: can you try again, with the longer form?
03:00	dysfun	https://www.refheap.com/94665
03:01	amalloy	fipp.printer? how is fipp getting involved?
03:01	dysfun	i don't even know what fipp is
03:01	justin_smith	it's a pretty printer
03:01	amalloy	this looks like a stacktrace from nrepl
03:01	dysfun	this is from lein repl
03:01	amalloy	weeeeeird
03:02	dysfun	would you like me to do it at a plain java prompt?
03:02	dysfun	er clojure prompt
03:02	amalloy	dysfun: that would be great, yeah. sorry to make you go through that horror
03:02	amalloy	but it does look like something is going wrong in lein repl itself
03:02	dysfun	heh. i can live with typing one thing into it
03:02	justin_smith	I bet something weird is happening in a "pretty printing" middleware
03:02	dysfun	i note that this happens outside of lein repl too, incidentally
03:03	justin_smith	so what's the cause/symptom again? I missed it in the scrollback
03:03	amalloy	justin_smith: dysfun gisted some code that throws an exception when you macroexpand it
03:03	amalloy	it looks fine to me, so i asked for the macroexpansion stacktrace
03:04	dysfun	gah, how do i open a clojure repl when i don't know where the clojure jar is?
03:04	amalloy	dysfun: java -cp `lein classpath` clojure.main
03:04	dysfun	ty
03:05	justin_smith	if nil-macros returned a var instead of a list, you would see that var/sequence error
03:05	andyf	puget and whidbey are in that stacktrace, too.
03:05	dysfun	amalloy: and *e doesn't appear to work. how can i get you a stacktrace?
03:05	justin_smith	dysfun: additionally, you as using (do ~@(map ...)) to generate the return value from nil-macros
03:06	amalloy	really?
03:06	justin_smith	I would not be surprised if that did not return a collection
03:06	dysfun	oh hang on
03:06	dysfun	no, it's because it worked
03:06	amalloy	lovely
03:06	sm0ke	,(deftype Foo [x] Object)
03:06	clojurebot	sandbox.Foo
03:06	sm0ke	,(Foo 1)
03:06	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Expecting var, but Foo is mapped to class sandbox.Foo>
03:06	sm0ke	,(Foo. 1)
03:06	clojurebot	#<Foo sandbox.Foo@fc374c>
03:06	sm0ke	how do i access the x now?
03:07	dysfun	amalloy: would it help if i disabled all my nrepl middleware?
03:07	justin_smith	,(.x (Foo. 1))
03:07	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Unable to resolve classname: Foo, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
03:07	sm0ke	hehe
03:07	amalloy	dysfun: well, there's either a bug in leiningen, or in some of your middleware
03:07	sm0ke	,(deftype Foo [x] Object)
03:07	clojurebot	sandbox.Foo
03:07	sm0ke	,(.x (Foo. 1))
03:07	clojurebot	1
03:07	amalloy	i'm guessing it's a fipp-related middleware, so turn them off until it stops breaking
03:07	sm0ke	oops
03:07	amalloy	then file a bug at the one that is breaking things
03:08	sm0ke	wow embarasing, thanks justin_smith
03:08	amalloy	it is probably whidbey?
03:09	dysfun	it hadn't even occurred to me that a pretty printer would perform such action at a distance
03:10	dysfun	okay, replicated with all nrepl middleware disabled
03:10	amalloy	the foundational tools you use need to be rock-solid, because you'll never suspect they're the problem
03:10	andyf	It is tough to test every case when code is involved.
03:11	amalloy	dysfun: replicated, as in the issue still occurs? with the same stacktrace inside whidbey and fipp? that seems unlikely
03:11	amalloy	maybe whidbey is part of nrepl now, i dunno
03:11	andyf	pprint by itself goes into an infinite loop for forms containing Vars created by defprotocol.
03:11	dysfun	the same error message
03:11	dysfun	new stacktrace :)
03:11	dysfun	https://www.refheap.com/94666
03:12	amalloy	oh
03:12	amalloy	dysfun: just remove the ~@ around nil-macros completely
03:13	justin_smith	haha, I called it
03:13	amalloy	the problem is obvious now that there's not this weird fipp thing distracting me :)
03:13	dysfun	oh
03:13	andyf	what is the problem?
03:13	dysfun	right, yeah
03:13	dysfun	thanks folks
03:14	dysfun	and of course the reason it worked in the clojure repl is because it went into 'live' mode
03:14	justin_smith	<justin_smith> dysfun: additionally, you as using (do ~@(map ...)) to generate the return value from nil-macros ... <justin_smith> I would not be surprised if that did not return a collection
03:14	amalloy	justin_smith: but that's not actually right
03:14	justin_smith	OK
03:14	justin_smith	what is it then?
03:14	amalloy	nil-macros returned a list, as expected
03:15	amalloy	but it's a macro
03:15	amalloy	so you should either just call it, eg with (in-live (nil-macros ...)), or else make it into a function and then splice it in
03:15	amalloy	you can't make it a macro and splice it in
03:16	andyf	I should have listened to my vague misgivings about that.
03:16	amalloy	because if you do, nil-macros gets called at macroexpansion time! and it returns a var, of course, which you try to splice into the user's code
03:16	justin_smith	OK. I would have said "since it's a macro you don't get the list it returns" but I guess my understanding of the world of macros is still insufficient
03:16	cfleming	dysfun andyf: I have a prototype of a stepping macroexpander parked - the issue was that naive stepping (i.e. stepping from start to finish) is really tedious. You need to be able to select a form to expand, but that's surprisingly hard to do if you want to properly respect &env
03:16	cfleming	dysfun andyf: I'm hoping to get back to that soon.
03:16	justin_smith	and with my simplified explanation "it doesn't return a list" actually makes sense. But I understand that your explanation is much more accurate.
03:18	justin_smith	(inc amalloy)
03:18	lazybot	⇒ 204
03:18	dysfun	justin_smith: well, you aren't technically wrong, you just could have been more correct :)
03:18	amalloy	hmmm, i'm trying to think of a simpler example to make the distinction clear
03:20	dysfun	(inc amalloy)
03:20	lazybot	⇒ 205
03:21	amalloy	justin_smith: actually, maybe my old blog post on macro-writing macros is enough: have you read http://amalloy.hubpages.com/hub/Clojure-macro-writing-macros ? it's got the opposite side of this coin, the inverse of the mistake dysfun made
03:23	justin_smith	so the alternate solution is that dysfun could still use ~@, and define his impl as functions rather than macros
03:24	justin_smith	and those would get used and expanded properly
03:24	dysfun	amalloy: heh, that macro is insane
03:24	amalloy	justin_smith: right
03:25	amalloy	which i tried to say, with "so you should either just call it, eg with (in-live (nil-macros ...)), or else make it into a function and then splice it in"
03:25	amalloy	but i can see how that might not be clear
03:25	justin_smith	so the standard "put your impl in a function, and only use a macro for the syntax part" advice helps here too
03:25	dysfun	except in this case, where the goal is removal
03:25	dysfun	so it does have to be a macro
03:26	justin_smith	dysfun: until the last step, you can just be constructing lists
03:26	justin_smith	you can easily remove items from a list
03:26	justin_smith	and finally splice the lists into what the macro returns
03:26	zot	what might i do to debug if (shutdown-agents) doesn't actually shutdown fast anymore? i assume that one of my go blocks is doing something errant, but i can't find it yet :/
03:26	amalloy	dysfun: no, it doesn't have to be a macro. try this: put the ~@ back in, and change nil-macros from defmacro to defn
03:27	amalloy	you should get equivalent behavior
03:27	amalloy	like justin_smith is saying, you only need one defmacro as the outer shell; inside that, everything can be functions
03:27	dysfun	i thought ` was only valid inside macros?
03:27	amalloy	,`x
03:27	clojurebot	sandbox/x
03:28	dysfun	hrm
03:28	amalloy	` is just a shorthand for functions that build lists
03:28	amalloy	you can even see in your own nil-macro: that's a function, which contains `!
03:29	dysfun	i must have been drunk when i wrote this
03:29	amalloy	that's a ^:Possibility
03:29	dysfun	:)
03:29	andyf	zot: Do you use any of future, clojure.java.shell/sh, or pmap
03:29	andyf	?
03:29	justin_smith	dysfun: learning is state dependent, the more you code while drunk the better you will be at coding drunk.
03:29	zot	andyf: core.async only
03:30	andyf	Those are functions, not namespaces.
03:30	dysfun	justin_smith: i used to work at an investment bank. drinking at lunch was practically mandatory. my drunken perl is quite something
03:30	justin_smith	:)
03:30	rhg135	justin_smith: tp a point only
03:30	rhg135	Look at m$
03:31	zot	andyf: i don't follow what you mean
03:31	andyf	I mean, do you use the functions future, or pmap, or sh?
03:31	zot	no, i do not.
03:32	dysfun	amalloy: i do not get equivalent behaviour. i get unable to resolve symbol now
03:32	dysfun	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: facts in this context, compiling:(tk0/util/macros.clj:49:18)>
03:32	zot	andyf: although i realize after answering that a third-party library might. looking now.
03:33	amalloy	oh, sure
03:33	zot	indeed, it does use future.
03:33	amalloy	you'd have to make some more changes than i said, because you'd need to quote things
03:33	dysfun	nod, i was about to test quoting them
03:33	amalloy	~@(nil-macros 'facts ...)
03:33	clojurebot	Huh?
03:33	amalloy	clojurebot: stuff it
03:34	clojurebot	excusez-moi
03:34	amalloy	that's right
03:34	andyf	zot: You currently have a call to (shutdown-agents) in your program just before it exits?
03:34	zot	yep. otherwise i get to wait. but not even calling that just sits.
03:34	zot	s/not/now/
03:35	andyf	zot: I?m not sure, but maybe if a future was created and its function is doing some long-running thing, the process will not exit? Is there much CPU utilization when your program fails to exit?
03:36	amalloy	does core.async even use the agents threadpool?
03:36	andyf	amalloy: I do not know, but zot says one of his third-party libs uses future
03:36	amalloy	ah, i missed that
03:39	zot	ugh. this is tricky. apparently i'm still a liar. the old version of the lib did. the current one doesn't. i'm ignorantly running the slightly new, so my grep gave me wrongness. (https://github.com/pingles/clj-kafka/blob/0.1.2-0.8/src/clj_kafka/consumer/zk.clj#L48 versus newer 0.2.8-0.8.1.1 tag)
03:40	justin_smith	zot: yeah, any impl of kafka is going to be doing some threaded stuff
03:40	zot	yes, as i would expect
03:40	zot	i would just hope that it cleans up when using with-open / with-resource [their built in similar wrapper]
03:40	justin_smith	and the jvm won't shut down until those threads are good and ready
03:41	zot	i must be misusing it someplace :/
03:42	justin_smith	the underlying zookeeper lib is creating the threads, I think
03:42	justin_smith	also, top level namespace, which is terrible
03:44	justin_smith	found this gem in the zookeeper javadoc: "The request doesn't actually until the asynchronous callback is called."
03:45	zot	lol. except, ugh.
03:45	justin_smith	yeah, instantiating a ZooKeeper object implicitly creates a thread, the connection establishment is async
03:45	zot	but there was a time when it shutdown gracefully. so i must have done something wrong. (or i'm using it in a new/different way, and have forgotten.)
03:46	justin_smith	zot: you could try explicitly call .close on your zookeeper client? or does clj-kafka even expose that to you?
03:47	justin_smith	oh, it is already doing with-resource / zk/close
03:47	justin_smith	and furthermore, you already mentioned this
03:47	justin_smith	I am slowly catching up
03:47	zot	and it's greatly appreciated :)
03:48	justin_smith	zot: I have an ulterior motive here, I may have client work coming up that uses kafka, so this is a good chance to figure some stuff out
03:48	zot	yeah, i'm doing (kcore/with-resource [kc (make-kafka-consumer cfg)] kcons/shutdown …) which afaict is the right way
03:49	zot	note that afa = not very far.
03:49	justin_smith	zot: backing up to another approach entirely - if you connect to your app in jvisualvm, you could check which threads remain active when it should be shutting down
03:49	justin_smith	zot: often the threads have informative names, otherwise you can see what code they are running
03:50	justin_smith	actually even jstack should suffice
03:50	zot	this sounds like exactly what i would want to do. it's new ground, but useful. i've not worked in the JVM in years, so it's mostly a black box to me ;)
03:50	justin_smith	zot: jvisualvm and jstack both come with the JDK if you have it
03:50	zot	i do. will play and see what i learn. thanks!
03:51	justin_smith	jstack will give you a stack trace for every thread - that should help
03:51	andyf	This isn't much additional info, but I did just run a toy test verifying that even calling shutdown-agents, any futures that are not finished will postpone the exiting from the JVM. But you may have known that already.
03:52	zot	i did not — i've still never used futures in clojure. every day is still learning new things.
03:57	andyf	When I tried jstack on a JVM waiting to exit with a future that was not done, the process showed up with a name like "clojure-agent-send-off-pool-0"
03:57	andyf	which is what the Clojure runtime names such threads by default, if you do not override it.
03:58	andyf	uh, I meant "thread" not "process" there.
03:59	zot	cool, nice to know. i'm checking it now.
04:00	justin_smith	andyf: well, given how rare Windows users are in the Clojuresphere, we can almost take pthreads for granted :)
04:00	cblop	does anyone know how to feed core.logic's pldb relations and facts from a vector?
04:00	zot	shall i assume that a thread in the state 'runnable' would willingly shutdown, and that the problems are likely WAITING (parking) threads?
04:01	cblop	i'm having problems because macros like db-rel require symbols as part of the relations
04:01	schrotti	justin_smith: maybe i'm still missing something, but to me it seems, that the way you suggested requires me to build an uberjar for each backend implementation
04:01	justin_smith	zot: this may help https://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/lang/Thread.State.html
04:03	justin_smith	schrotti: yeah, that solution would require a different uberjar for different backends. But one option could be separating those backends to their own jars, and providing those to the jvm separately on the classpath along with the uberjar
04:03	justin_smith	schrotti: I acknowledge that this is awkward
04:05	justin_smith	schrotti: backing up, you could have multiple namespaces that implement the same protocol, and pass the protocol implementation to the code that uses it. Then the conditional is only in one place at least. And it does not require using load at all.
04:06	justin_smith	schrotti: I kind of like the default assumption that a given namespace is only implemented in one place. I could easily foresee weird debugging experiences with a codebase that handled this in an idiosyncratic way.
04:09	zot	justin_smith: it seems likely that this is my problem: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/cf3023be4cce85ef67bb ; still trying to read, when the a (take N …) around the message block ought to have allowed this to close and stop trying to read. the rest are either in waiting / waiting_timed state, or appear to be normal jvm threads. am i crazy?
04:10	justin_smith	yeah, those are both stuck in polling state it looks like?
04:12	zot	appears to be. i'm curious if there's something bad that kcore/with-resource is being called within a core.async/thread call, since i just wrapped the shutdown handler, and it doesn't appear to be getting called.
04:14	justin_smith	zot: it's after 1 am my time, so I need to turn in. Good luck though.
04:14	zot	nope, makes no difference when i pull it out of the thread. ok. live with it and file an issue i guess.
04:14	zot	tnx, sleep well
04:35	nonuby	using clojure.java.jdbc if I want to do an update! with col1 = col1 + 1 (on the db side) how would one accomplish that?
04:36	clgv	nonuby: that's not clojure specific, but sql specific. so you should find enough material on that online ;)
04:36	nonuby	clgv, i get that, found it, was looking for execute! not update! (a map friednly wrapper around execute!)
04:37	clgv	nonuby: good :)
04:45	SagiCZ1	can i somehow let the producer in core.async know that i wont be consuming anymore?
04:46	clgv	not through the channel I guess. you can only build up backpressure through the channel
04:46	clgv	does it even make sense not to consume products?
04:47	SagiCZ1	does it make sense to produce when no one is consuming?
04:50	kenrestivo	async macroeconomics.
04:51	SagiCZ1	let say the producer is keeping some expensive resource opened, so once it know that no one wants to consume, it can close the resource
04:54	clgv	SagiCZ1: sure, I was questioning the asymmetry itself
05:01	rritoch	Is there any way to type right on the function? When I try
05:01	rritoch	(defn ^void myfun [] ...) I get an error
05:01	rritoch	Err, to type hint void return type that is.
05:02	SagiCZ1	rritoch: i dont think so.. type hinting is to avoid reflection.. there is no reflection with void
05:04	rritoch	SagiCZ1: Ok thanks, I'm mostly using type hinting for improved documentation since the interface should automatically apply the correct types
05:05	SagiCZ1	rritoch: i am not sure that's a good idea.. well it probably can't hurt..
05:12	schrotti	hm why isn't the :uberjar-exclusions not working :/
05:14	schrotti	i'd like to exclude app/storage/core.clj, with the following regex #".*storage/core.clj"
05:36	dysfun	hrm, lein repl times out, but :headless/:connect works fine. any clues?
05:39	rritoch	dysfun: If there is a possiblity that one of your repositories is offline or frozen you could try :update :never in your project.clj, and if your using :aot sometimes doing a precompile via lein compile can help. I've run into timeouts a few times for larger apps, 90% of the time my internet connection is to blame.
05:39	dysfun	i have all of the deps locally
05:39	dysfun	and i am not using :aot
05:40	rritoch	dysfun: Even if you have your deps locally, it will still check the online repositories for newer versions
05:40	dysfun	i'm only using clojars
05:41	rritoch	dysfun: Ok I can't help you then. These are the only situations that have lead to me getting timeouts errors.
05:41	dysfun	:/
05:42	rritoch	dysfun: Is it possible that you have an infinite loop in code that's executing at compile time?
05:42	dysfun	if that was the case, it wouldn't work under :headless, surely?
05:46	rritoch	dysfun: Probably, the inf. compile loop was just a wild-guess. I really haven't run into a timeout when I precompile and disable downloading. Maybe you can try aot compiling it and see if it does any better. Aot compiled code loads faster.
05:47	dysfun	there just isn't enough code there to take ages, frankly
05:49	dysfun	hrm, you may have been right actually
05:49	dysfun	one of the deps was in maven central
05:49	dysfun	and that seems to have just started working
05:50	dysfun	but that seems an implausible outage
05:50	rritoch	dysfun: Plugins aren't aot-compiled, even if you want them to be. At least I haven't figured out a way to aot compile a plugin. So when you ran without aot, even though you don't have much code, the plugin code had to be compiled which was probably taking too long.
05:58	dysfun	hrm, it's cider-nrepl!
05:59	dysfun	when i comment out their middleware, it works fine
06:02	rritoch	dysfun: Well at least your up and running, when I have timeouts like that it usually ends to a lot of f-words flying around until it's solved.
06:14	dysfun	believe me, i know that state well
06:14	rritoch	If you have an atom with a map where one of the keys contain an atom, is it possible and reliable to call swap! within the swap! method to ensure that the code remains thread-safe?
06:18	noncom	rritoch: ofcourse
06:18	noncom	but
06:19	noncom	you actually need to retreive the inner atom and call swap on it
06:19	noncom	it will remain the same atom
06:19	noncom	you do not need to re-include it again into the top one
06:19	noncom	rritoch ^
06:21	noncom	rritoch: i thought more and wanted to add that if you need to ensure the two atoms be changed as a single transaction, not like 2 thread-safe transactions, then them need to be refs
06:21	noncom	but as i said, i think that swapping only the inner atom will suffice for you
06:21	clgv	you cant convince a clojure function to have void as return
06:22	clgv	rritoch: ^^
06:22	clgv	rritoch: for primitive types you need to use this pattern (defn f ^long [^double x ...] ...)
06:23	rritoch	clgv: Thanks. I've had no problem with types so far, just the void which wasn't working.
06:23	clgv	rritoch: for general type hints up to clojure 1.6 you should prefer (defn ^String f [...] ...) - if I remember correctly that wont be needed in 1.7 anymore
06:23	clgv	rritoch: if thats the case you only type hint the argvector
06:29	rritoch	clgv: What about array types, can they be type hinted?
06:30	rritoch	clgv: (defn ^{:tag (resolve (symbol "[I"))} foo [] ) compiles, but I'm not sure it's valid.
06:50	dysfun	rritoch: longs = array[long]
06:50	dysfun	and similar appendings of 's' DTRT with other types
06:51	hydo	Any of you ever seen a funky classcastexception saying 'cant cast x.y.z to [Lx.y.z? packages are the same aside from the '[L'? Not the easiest thing to search google for.
06:53	clgv	rritoch: you can hint them as strings. but that has only effect on type inference and not the return type
06:54	clgv	rritoch: no the above form you provided probably wont work. I think I tried something like that myself. just use (defn ^"[I" foo [] ...)
07:00	rritoch	hydo: That is actually related to my discussion with clgv, you need to use make-array, the L means it is an array and your passing a single class instance.
07:01	hydo	!
07:01	noncom	hydo: [L is an array of longs
07:01	hydo	Thank you! No idea how long it would have taken me to figure that out.
07:01	noncom	actually that is a general java convention name
07:01	noncom	not clojure-specific
07:02	hydo	I'm coming from cl, so it's all greek to me. heh
07:02	clgv	hydo: probably a java function with variable arguments, right?
07:03	Bronsa	noncom: not a convention, it's from the jvm specs
07:03	clgv	a trick to figure out the class #(.getCanonicalName (Class/forName "[I"))
07:03	hydo	Well, no, the java call would be sender.getInventory().addItem(thing); Not sure if it takes a variable amount of arguments.
07:03	clgv	,(.getCanonicalName (Class/forName "[I"))
07:03	clojurebot	"int[]"
07:04	clgv	hydo: the javadoc or source will tell you ;)
07:04	hydo	Yea, that's what I'm hunting :)
07:04	hydo	Actually, first I'm going to hunt a drink.
07:05	Bronsa	you can use reflection if you can't find the javadoc or the source
07:11	hydo	Bronsa: interestingly, it's cl.lang.reflector.boxarg that's throwing the exception.
07:12	rritoch	hydo: Here is some code which may make it more clear. ##(type (make-array (class {}) 5))
07:12	lazybot	⇒ [Lclojure.lang.PersistentArrayMap;
07:12	rritoch	hydo: As you can see [L gets added for any array
07:12	andrewmcveigh	Is anyone from clojars.org here? I can't access https://clojars.org from our (shared) IP. Do you run a blocklist?
07:13	rritoch	hydo: accept primitive types which have their own [x symbols.
07:15	hydo	Yes, that does make it a little more clear. and, of course, you were right. The type signature (if you'll let me call it that) is (Item... items), which I'm assuming in java parlance means 'one or more'.
07:35	clgv	andrewmcveigh: do you use a proxy?
07:36	clgv	hydo: yes thats the varargs syntactic sugar
07:37	andrewmcveigh	clgv: No. No proxies here.
07:38	andrewmcveigh	clgv: Everything was running fine last night.
07:38	clgv	andrewmcveigh: you can access the clojars.org implementation on github. I doubt that they run a permanent blocklist.
07:40	andrewmcveigh	clgv: Yeah, I doubt it too, just a bit weird.
07:55	mindbender1	How do I check if a UUID is valid?
07:55	hipsterslapfight	mindbender1: you mean to spec for a certain version?
07:56	mindbender1	hipsterslapfight: yeah
07:56	hipsterslapfight	http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7905929/how-to-test-valid-uuid-guid
07:56	hipsterslapfight	ugh wrong window sorry
07:56	hipsterslapfight	oh welp this is #clojure and i'm an idiot. sorry mindbender1 :v
07:57	mindbender1	np. Checking it out. thanks!
08:04	mindbender1	Is the no clojure library that handles uuid and issues realted to it?
08:04	mindbender1	*related
08:04	clgv	clj-uuid was mentioned yesterday
08:22	mindbender1	clgv: thanks
09:06	saltsa	hello, I had a very strange problem. When using (printf "%s\n" "foo") the texts didn't necessarily printed to the stdout at all. But when using (println (format "%s" "foo")) it worked correctly. Both worked in REPL but when running the software from JAR, it did print nothing.
09:07	saltsa	this has something to do with the terminal buffering but i'm wondering why it didn't even displayed those messages after the program did exit?
09:10	wunki	all of a sudden I keep getting that clojure can't find any java classes
09:10	wunki	resulting in errors as: Caused by: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching method: sha1Hex
09:10	wunki	anyone have a clue how to debug this?
09:13	SagiCZ1	are you calling sha1Hex in some interop call?
09:13	SagiCZ1	seems like you are sending wrong parameters to the method
09:14	wunki	SagiCZ1: this is being called in the carmine library (redis)
09:15	wunki	SagiCZ1: but even if I remove or change this library, it will spit up a different error in which it says it can't find a java method
09:16	SagiCZ1	could be some sort of build error.. when this happen i invalidate caches and restart my ide
09:17	wunki	SagiCZ1: invalidate caches with `lein clean`?
09:17	SagiCZ1	are you not using repl for this?
09:17	wunki	I can't even get into the repl :(
09:17	SagiCZ1	and what ide/editor are you using?
09:19	wunki	`lein repl` in the console and also Emacs/Cider
09:20	julio	what is this channel about ?
09:20	SagiCZ1	julio: clojure the programming language
09:20	SagiCZ1	wunki: i guess some people who know more about emacs will help you
09:20	julio	Thank you SagiCz1 !
09:21	wunki	SagiCZ1: yeah, but this is not an editor problem. Must be some build artifacts or typo somewhere. But have no clue how to debug this.
09:22	SagiCZ1	i would check the objects you are passing with the 'type' function to make sure you have correct types of parameters
09:28	ppppaul	i'm having a lot of problems trying to use alts! with cljs
09:28	ppppaul	does anyone have any resources they know of that could guide me through?
09:29	ppppaul	zsh
09:40	rritoch	saltsa: I would suggest trying a different version of Java, check the output of (System/getProperty "java.vm.version") and make sure that is the same version your running it with. Based on the sources for the latest versions of clojure the only difference between the two methods is they both call java.io.PrintWriter.write but the println also calls java.io.PrintWriter.append to apply the newline.
09:40	rritoch	saltsa: If that doesn't work you can always try using a new version of clojure. Either way this appears to be a java specific issue as I've never run into this problem.
09:41	saltsa	rritoch: in fact I did notice some differences between jdk 1.6 and 1.8
09:44	craigglennie	Good morning. I am building a toy webscraper to learn clojure, and I have a list of URLs to process. I’d like to do them in parallel, what’s the best way to go about it? I’m reading about core.async, but also wondering if there’s a simpler parallel map operation available
09:44	wunki	pmap?
09:44	clojurebot	pmap is not what you want
09:44	wunki	haha, thanks bot
09:46	craigglennie	wunkl: The docs say it’s “only useful for computationally intensive functions”, but I’m pretty sure I’ll be bounded by network IO. Still, I could try it.
09:49	clgv	craigglennie: clojure.core.reducers or maybe core.async
09:49	rpaulo	craigglennie: you can't do much about the networking part. only amortize the connection setup by reusing the same connection when the URLs point to the same server
09:51	craigglennie	Conceptually pmap seems to be exactly what I want - map my download function over my list of URLs, but in parallel
10:00	ppppaul	(go (print (alts! (to-chan [1 2 3 4])))) should this work in cljs? i'm only getting errors saying i have an undefined function being called
10:03	dnolen_	ppppaul: should work, perhaps forgot to :refer something?
10:08	ppppaul	https://gist.github.com/boxxxie/783427920e949eaf70c4
10:09	ppppaul	dnolen_, would you be able to look at that... i've been stuck on this for a whiel :(
10:09	ordnungswidrig	craigglennie: IIRC pmap uses a pool that is optimized if cpu bound (cores +2 or like that). I'd expect that core.async will work better
10:10	dnolen_	ppppaul: looks like you don't know how alts! works yet :) read the docs look for examples
10:10	ppppaul	:D
10:11	ordnungswidrig	craigglennie: maybe this is what you want: http://eng.climate.com/2014/02/25/claypoole-threadpool-tools-for-clojure/
10:11	dnolen_	ppppaul: (alts! [chan0 chan1 ...]) is the signature
10:11	ppppaul	i tried that as well... let me try again
10:11	dnolen_	ppppaul: also (alts! [[chan0 value-to-write] ...) works
10:12	dnolen_	ppppaul: it returns a vector of [value chan]
10:12	ppppaul	i get the same error when i wrap in a vector
10:13	craigglennie	ordnungswidrig: Thanks. I just realised that since I’m using Phantom I probably want a number of browser instances reading URLs off a queue (or similar). So I don’t think pmap would work there (unless the function I supplied instantiated a Phantom instance each time, but that’s going to be slow).
10:14	dnolen_	ppppaul: update the gist with what you are trying
10:15	ppppaul	ok
10:15	ppppaul	updated
10:15	ppppaul	dnolen_, ^
10:19	dnolen_	ppppaul: gist is not working code, only include the one that you think should work, comment out everything else
10:19	dnolen_	i.e. don't include multiple failing things
10:19	dnolen_	only one
10:20	ppppaul	updated dnolen_
10:21	ordnungswidrig	craigglennie: it's not a sin to use the java.util.concurrent classes for such tasks.
10:23	dnolen_	ppppaul: I'm going to try this - last point about gists - post minimal cases that people can test quickly, all the other dependencies are noise.
10:23	ppppaul	i'll remove them now
10:25	craigglennie	ordnungswidrig: I’ll take a look at that too. Thanks.
10:27	clgv	craigglennie: pmap is not what you want. since you probably want to use a couple hundred threads for downloading and processing
10:27	clgv	pmap only use "processor core count + 2"
10:31	dnolen_	ppppaul: are you looking at your compile warnings - compiling that gist I get a compiler warning about `to-chan` be an undeclared var
10:31	ppppaul	i added it to the refers
10:32	dnolen_	ppppaul: gist works fine for me
10:33	dnolen_	ppppaul: try a `lein cljsbuild clean` perhaps something got in a bad state during your experimentation
10:33	ppppaul	ok
10:35	ppppaul	omg
10:35	ppppaul	stuff is working now
10:35	dysfun	i wish to provide a first run wizard for my ring webapp. i'm reading a config file in the ring init handler, from which i determine if the first-run needs to be run. this is too late to conditionally change which routes are loaded through a simple (def .. (if... . is there a recommended way to handle this?
10:36	ppppaul	i have conflicting emotions at the moment
10:37	weavejester	dysfun: You could set a var or atom, and then use a delay to define your handler.
10:38	weavejester	dysfun: Or write your own main function that defines your handler function on the fly from a configuration.
10:38	dysfun	actually, i already have a main(), this is for running from 'lein ring server'
10:38	dysfun	(because free reloading)
10:38	weavejester	dysfun: Well, if you already have a main, you could just add in wrap-reload to get the reloading capability.
10:39	ppppaul	thanks dnolen_
10:39	weavejester	dysfun: Lein-Ring tends to make some flexibility compromises for ease of use.
10:39	dnolen_	ppppaul: np
10:39	dysfun	weavejester: nod
10:39	dysfun	okay, well wrap-reload sounds like a great option. thanks
10:40	justin_smith	saltsa: use (flush) because printf does not flush automatically
10:40	justin_smith	saltsa: that's likely your issue
10:40	dysfun	weavejester: what does it use to open a browser window?
10:40	weavejester	dysfun: Lein-Ring just adds the wrap-reload and wrap-stacktrace functions automatically, but they can be manually added.
10:40	weavejester	dysfun: Um, it's in clojure.core. Let me look up the name
10:41	weavejester	dysfun: clojure.java.browse/browse-url
10:41	dysfun	brilliant, thanks :)
10:42	weavejester	Incidentally, I tend to use a pattern like: (fn [config] (routes ...)) in my applications these days
10:43	weavejester	So I generate my routes from a config map, usually supplied by Component
10:43	dysfun	nod
10:43	dysfun	that's roughly what i had in mind :)
10:43	ordnungswidrig	weavejester: interesting, this matches my observation that `defxxx` macros tend to fall short for this kind of "wiring". I moved from `defresource` to `(fn [xxx] (resource ...))` recently.
10:44	justin_smith	"def* considered harmful"
10:44	weavejester	ordnungswidrig: Yeah, most of the time I'm not sure if def* macros are worth it. They tend to make things look more magical than they really are.
10:45	ordnungswidrig	ordnungswidrig: and that's not only blunder but also giving you all kind of headaches because you find yourself trapped in macro land.
11:00	SagiCZ1	no love for defn?
11:02	sm0ke	,:a/122
11:02	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Invalid token: :a/122>
11:02	sm0ke	,:a/w122
11:02	clojurebot	:a/w122
11:02	TEttinger	heh
11:03	Bronsa	,:100
11:03	clojurebot	:100
11:03	TEttinger	namespace rules, weird
11:03	Bronsa	,::100
11:03	clojurebot	:sandbox/100
11:03	Bronsa	:foo/100
11:03	Bronsa	,m:foo/100
11:03	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Invalid token: m:foo/100>
11:03	Bronsa	,:foo/100
11:03	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Invalid token: :foo/100>
11:03	TEttinger	is that a bug?
11:03	sm0ke	this is a blocker for me
11:04	Bronsa	I just don't start keywords with a digit and live happy.
11:04	sm0ke	:D
11:04	Bronsa	definitely a bug TEttinger, not sure wich behaviour should be expected between ::100 and :foo/100 though
11:04	zB0hs	is there a way to have lein-exec pull deps from project.clj rather than having to explicitly specify in your clj file?
11:05	puredanger	keywords/symbols with a leading digit currently work by accident
11:05	TEttinger	a happy accident?
11:05	puredanger	i.e., the regex accidentally allows it by backtracking
11:06	puredanger	I pushed a fix for that in 1.6 and we discovered that it broke a lot of people's code so we reverted
11:06	sm0ke	puredanger: is it intentionally disallowed for something like ##:a/11aa
11:06	TEttinger	,:a/122
11:06	clojurebot	:a/122
11:07	TEttinger	done
11:07	sm0ke	what
11:07	sm0ke	,:a/11
11:07	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Invalid token: :a/11>
11:07	sm0ke	,:a/122
11:07	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Invalid token: :a/122>
11:07	TEttinger	sm0ke, there's a \ufeff in there :P
11:07	puredanger	I'd say the behavior and docs are inconsistent around all of it
11:07	sm0ke	:D
11:07	puredanger	there is a ticket to clarify the docs and make the regex intentionally admit what we support
11:08	Bronsa	puredanger: this is where having a reader spec would help. if it was clear from the start what is allowed and what is not we could just tell those people "sorry, you have a bug"
11:08	puredanger	I'm not arguing
11:09	puredanger	http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1286
11:09	devn	im glad that it hasn't been nailed down 100% TBH
11:09	devn	but it might be time...
11:12	puredanger	Bronsa: I was looking at the reduce stuff in that range ticket just now… the difficulty is that the new LongRange implements both IReduce (when reducing over the sequence) and IChunk (when serving as one chunk of a chunked sequence) and those two forms of .reduce() have different semantics wrt reduced right now
11:12	Bronsa	puredanger: ouch.
11:12	puredanger	the code in the ticket is essentially aligning them on a single semantic
11:12	Bronsa	puredanger: an IChunk RangeSeq is out of the question?
11:13	puredanger	there are several possible ways to resolve it
11:14	puredanger	for example not using the same class for both purposes or allowing it to support both senses (although the code is otherwise identical, so that's annoying and confusing)
11:14	Bronsa	puredanger: I'm obviously not the one to make those decisions but it's my opinion that a correct approach, whatever it may be, doesn't require users to explicitely (preserve-reduced f) on .reduce
11:14	puredanger	I think it's fairly confusing to have two interfaces with a reduce() method that have different semantics
11:15	Bronsa	puredanger: right I'd be much happier with IChunk/chunk_reduce
11:15	puredanger	that is another option
11:15	puredanger	but it breaks any external impls of IChunk (if there are any)
11:15	Bronsa	puredanger: gvec is the only one I'm aware of
11:15	puredanger	I mean external to clojure itself
11:15	Bronsa	right, core.rrb-vectors and stuff
11:16	puredanger	there is both gvec's ArrayChunk and PV's ArrayChunk
11:16	puredanger	of course, changing the semantics of reduce() also potentially breaks external users
11:16	puredanger	s/users/implementers/
11:16	puredanger	or maybe both :)
11:19	saltsa	justin_smith: yeah, flush is, but should those buffers be automatically flushed when the program exists? The stdout is just a normal terminal.
11:20	justin_smith	saltsa: I think the OS will gladly throw away your resources, including your output buffer
11:20	Bronsa	puredanger: FWIW a quick search on github for c.l.IChunk hasn't shown any users other than from clojure forks. rrb-vectors itself is not using it
11:21	saltsa	justin_smith: I'm quite sure some other programming languages will always flush the output. But at least changing that printf to println fixed it
11:21	justin_smith	saltsa: like I said, you can just call (flush)
11:22	justin_smith	or, that's what I tried to say, at least
11:23	justin_smith	saltsa: also, if you ended the printf with a \n that may have gotten an auto-flush. Not sure of that though.
11:28	joobus	is aleph the 'event-driven' framework for clojure?
11:29	joobus	and does one need to worry about threads in clojure when serving a web site? I've been reading about java having support for lightweight threads in the jvm, so I'm not sure I need to worry about serving one thread per request.
11:30	justin_smith	joobus: there are thread-pools, but no out of the box lightweight threads. They are just OS threads.
11:30	justin_smith	http-kit and aleph use pools iirc, jetty uses a thread per request (re-used out of a pool)
11:31	joobus	i'm trying to determine if i need to go the way of aleph, or if serving ring/http-kit behind nginx is good enough
11:31	justin_smith	you need nginx no matter what I would say
11:31	justin_smith	it has security features that the other web servers don't provide
11:32	joobus	right now i use twisted in python which requires writing all code a certain way to handle deferreds, and I don't know if there is huge benefit to aleph over http-kit
11:32	joobus	i agree on nginx's other features
11:32	justin_smith	also, aleph is not a framework, it's a server
11:33	justin_smith	aleph uses netty: http://netty.io/wiki/thread-model.html
11:34	justin_smith	that isn't the right page for info about their thread usage actually...
11:34	justin_smith	yeah, it looks like netty uses a thread-pool
11:40	kenrestivo	what reference type would you recommend for holding a mirror of external state, but which will get updated every few milliseconds with a polling loop. the state will need to be both read and written from the application
11:41	kenrestivo	in other words, i have to poll, but also need to write. either i'll be updating it or the external world will be. and writes will be a transform of the existing (external) state
11:43	justin_smith	an agent makes sense (with both the polling process and your app's own logic updating the agent state)
11:43	justin_smith	atoms would introduce retries, which seems like a bad idea for your use case
11:43	justin_smith	as would refs
11:44	kungi	I am trying to use the component / reload workflow with this example. When I run `lein repl` `go` and then change any println statement ant then `reset` no changes occur. What am I doing wrong? https://gist.github.com/Kungi/47493fbb9de4aadc0629
11:50	nboskovic	Which should I get, On Lisp, ANSI Common Lisp or SICP?
11:51	kungi	nboskovic: On Lisp is for free, SICP is also free, and the other one I don't know.
11:52	nboskovic	Yes, I know
11:52	nboskovic	I'm saying though
11:52	justin_smith	sicp is the better of the three
11:52	nboskovic	IF you had to pick one, which one would it be? I'm at the Uni and while I would love to print them all out, there's only so much time in one day
11:53	kungi	nboskovic: I would get SICP
11:53	kungi	nboskovic: Or save time and get a copy from Amazon
11:54	nboskovic	heh, well
11:54	nboskovic	It would take weeks to get here if it got here at all
11:54	kungi	nboskovic: Ok where is here?
11:54	nboskovic	Argentina
11:54	justin_smith	split the difference and get a semi-decent ebook reader and load up all those free books?
11:54	justin_smith	just a thought
11:54	nboskovic	Our customs agency is pretty terrible
11:54	nboskovic	I had a kindle once
11:55	justin_smith	how was it?
11:55	nboskovic	Small
11:55	nboskovic	I'd rather have technical books in paper
11:55	nboskovic	It's better for notes and stuff
12:00	nboskovic	I can print out 5k pages per month as long as I provide the paper, which is dirt cheap anyways, so I might as well take advantage of it
12:01	justin_smith	nboskovic: yeah, with my favorite books I can actually find frequently needed info based on marks or tears on the pages
12:01	justin_smith	nboskovic: maybe we need an ebook reader that adds entropy to frequently accessed pages to make them stand out in the TOC
12:01	nboskovic	lol
12:01	nboskovic	Nothing beats paper imo
12:02	justin_smith	paper is great
12:02	justin_smith	sometimes I print out code to go over it with a pencil away from a screen
12:02	nboskovic	The only thing that could surpass paper is some kind of virtual reality environment where it feels like you're reading paper anyways
12:02	justin_smith	I am doing a project where I am going to need to write TANDY basic, and I am going to do everything in paper first because basic sucks so much
12:02	nboskovic	yeah, that's how I solve my hardest problems usually; though I write it down by hand
12:02	nboskovic	Ouch
12:03	bja_	I hate paper. If I can't use regex search on it, I'm not interested
12:03	nboskovic	That's one advantage to digital media
12:03	justin_smith	bja_: clearly you don't have the pcre ocular implant
12:03	justin_smith	life changer
12:03	kungi	I would like to have both. Write on the paper and transfer the notes into the eBook
12:03	bja_	(inc justin_smith)
12:03	lazybot	⇒ 157
12:03	kungi	This would be awsome
12:03	nboskovic	some day, that will be something
12:03	justin_smith	we can only hope!
12:04	nboskovic	Probably sooner than we think
12:04	kungi	nboskovic: There was a company creating pens which record what you wrote
12:04	justin_smith	we have wetware that greps for faces
12:04	kungi	But they destoryed themselves
12:04	bja_	in the meantime, I have interns who have OCR software and a scanner
12:04	nboskovic	I remember that.. shame, really
12:04	kungi	Livescribe was awsome
12:05	TEttinger	kungi, it would be awesome to have a live scribe, a dead scribe doesn't sound useful
12:05	nboskovic	Well, if the technology exists it could be rebuilt
12:05	justin_smith	TEttinger: leaving one around just sounds depressing!
12:05	kungi	TEttinger: is there an english word for the german carnival Tata tata ...
12:06	justin_smith	kungi: maybe Ba-Dum-Tish
12:06	TEttinger	kungi, as I understand it, there are lots of german words with no english equivalents (Weltschmerz)
12:06	TEttinger	Zeitgeist
12:07	kungi	nboskovic: It's called dot-paper or donane paper afaic. You have a nearly invisible dot pattern on the paper and your pencil has a camera recognizing the pattern.
12:07	nboskovic	Yeah, I'm looking it up
12:07	justin_smith	TEttinger: don't be silly, Zeitgeist is just timeghost
12:07	nboskovic	I was wondering
12:07	kungi	We only need to print books with pattern and have an appropriate ebook then -> BAM!!!
12:07	justin_smith	/s
12:07	TEttinger	though both of those are compounds, and "spirit of the times" is pretty close
12:07	nboskovic	you could probably have a pen with a small gyroscope on the tip
12:07	nboskovic	then record the movement when you're writing
12:07	kungi	nboskovic: then you dont't know where you are in the book
12:08	justin_smith	TEttinger: but timeghost sounds so much more awesome, like something from Adventure Time
12:08	nboskovic	looks like gyroscopes are too big atm
12:08	TEttinger	heh
12:08	nboskovic	you'd have to have a pen, a gyroscope and a recorder/transmitter
12:08	nboskovic	for the movement
12:08	justin_smith	nboskovic: accellerometers are pretty miniaturized though
12:09	TEttinger	swedish has the interesting word "lagom" (might be missing a mark)
12:09	justin_smith	nboskovic: and iirc they are mady with super tiny gyros + super sensitive pressure sensors
12:09	justin_smith	nboskovic: and more to the point, an accellerometer in a pen tip would basically do what you want I think
12:09	kungi	\o/ It is made of wörkings!
12:10	nboskovic	Good
12:10	nboskovic	time to patent it
12:10	justin_smith	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_pen too late
12:11	nboskovic	welp
12:11	kungi	Note to my future self: when you have a dev/user.clj file you should include it into tools.nrepl .... refresh. If not everything breaks.
12:11	justin_smith	kungi: so that was your reloaded issue?
12:11	justin_smith	makes sense I guess
12:11	kungi	justin_smith: yes
12:11	nboskovic	but wait, those seem to be more like wacom-style pens
12:11	justin_smith	nboskovic: it's all varieties
12:11	justin_smith	including wacom and standalone
12:11	justin_smith	it's wikipedia after all
12:11	nboskovic	true
12:12	nboskovic	the maxell penit looks good
12:12	kungi	justin_smith: this issue took me nearly the whole day. And I was starting to question my sanity.
12:12	justin_smith	kungi: that always sucks
12:12	nboskovic	doesn't seem to be on sale though
12:13	kungi	justin_smith: Yes especially if you start to minimize and minimize and then you have less than half a page of code and still can't see the error
12:45	ppppaul	when making macros in cljs, do i have to make them in a clj file?
12:50	edbond	ppppaul, yes
12:51	ppppaul	ok
12:53	Bronsa	dnolen_: do you have a testcase for MATCH-98? I'm curious to see if the patch for CLJ-979 fixes that
12:54	Bronsa	amalloy_: kinseapo is the daily spammer
12:54	dnolen_	Bronsa: ticket has a test case http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/MATCH-98
12:55	Bronsa	ah, should have looked at it, thanks
12:56	dnolen_	Bronsa: let me know if your patch fixes, this definitely a years old infuriating bug
12:57	dnolen_	Bronsa: if it fixes, might be worth mentioning that all the AOT bugs in core.match pretty much boiled down to multimethod + classes
12:57	Bronsa	dnolen_: yep it does
12:58	dnolen_	"worth mentioning to puredanger"
12:58	dnolen_	Bronsa: wow, thanks for verifying
12:59	Bronsa	dnolen_: uhm wait I might have spoken too soon. it fixes an issue but not 100% sure it's that one
12:59	dnolen_	heh ok
12:59	Bronsa	dnolen_: (compile 'clojure.core.match) w/o that patch throws java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: clojure/core/match/protocols/IPatternCompile, w/ patch completes
13:06	seangrove	Bronsa: Looking at https://github.com/clojure/tools.analyzer, it references create-var, but I'm not clear on what that should be
13:07	seangrove	Bronsa: Sorry, nevermind, just looked at the source
13:12	pandeiro	is it possible to do the clojure CA online now?
13:16	joegallo	pandeiro: i googled "clojure ca" and got to http://clojure.org/contributing
13:16	joegallo	then searched in the page for 'online' and found https://secure.echosign.com/public/hostedForm?formid=95YMDL576B336E
13:16	joegallo	so i believe the answer is yes
13:17	pandeiro	joegallo: yeah i'm there i just wanted to make sure this was actually valid in place of mailing it in
13:18	pandeiro	i did it already, so i hope so :)
13:23	EvanR	i did it, i overwhelmed vim clojure-static's ability to format my indentation with ==
13:23	EvanR	too many levels of brackets i guess
13:26	Bronsa	dnolen_: still not sure, will investigate better the interaction between defmulti/class literals/AOT tomorrow and let you know if there's an obvious fix on the clj side. I remember investigating this months ago but I don't remember what I found out.
13:27	TEttinger	EvanR, split up some logic then? ouch...
13:27	Bronsa	seangrove: in case it helps, in t.a.jvm create-var is ~ intern, in t.a.js it just returns a "var" map
13:28	Bronsa	seangrove: in t.a when I write "var" (not capitalized) I don't mean a Var. it means some kind of object that the platform uses to hold a def init, in clj it's a Var in cljs it's a map in the compiler env
13:28	EvanR	TEttinger: well, its a big nested data structure, but yeah i plan to split it up
13:28	EvanR	its easier for me to read sometimes if its all expanded into one big record (with proper indentation)
13:28	TEttinger	if a nested data structure gets too big it can't be read by the JVM
13:29	TEttinger	the example I found this in was https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11914692/weapons-map-too-large.clj
13:29	EvanR	ok but ... its an element of a map that ends with }}]]]
13:29	EvanR	after that point the other elements dont indent
13:29	TEttinger	trying to parse one huge map didn't work
13:29	EvanR	so its 5 or 6 levesl deep
13:30	EvanR	i think its an inefficiency in the implementation of the clojure static auto indenter
13:30	TEttinger	IIRC, that map is only 100 elements of 72-key maps
13:31	EvanR	whats the problem? that his weapons map literal has too many keys?
13:31	EvanR	thats ridiculous
13:32	EvanR	surely runtime maps and serializations can support more
13:32	TEttinger	yeah, it works if you split it up, but not as one literal
13:32	TEttinger	https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11914692/weapons-map.clj works
13:32	EvanR	;_;
13:33	EvanR	kinseapo is spamming
13:33	TEttinger	yep
13:33	EvanR	anyway, i have 4 keys, but like 5 levels of nesting
14:24	dmahanta	if we have two list listA and listB i want to do this map fn listA, but fn need listB everything whats the best way to do it, is global variable the only way
14:26	Gay-champion	anyone here is a programmer unity 3d? 9àè
14:28	TEttinger	dmahanta: you can use a let binding to make a local "variable"
14:37	kungi
14:39	Gay-champion	Who is a transexual gay here ? 9à9
14:40	kungi	Gay-champion: I don't think sexuality is of interest in this channel
14:56	amalloy	EvanR: i don't see kinseapo in this channel at all. kicked already?
15:06	sg2002	Hey guys. What's the best tagging application for clojure src? It seems that neither ctags nor etags, nor gnu global support clojure out of box...
15:06	arrdem	puredanger: is "not trivially portable to cljs" a legitimate criticism of a feature at this point in time? Kicking around the numerics patch since it's something I've done worse before.
15:13	puredanger	it's a consideration, surely. I'm not too concerned with whether it's "trivial" or not. certainly we should be considering portability for anything like that.
15:16	puredanger	I haven't talked to Rich about it, no idea what his opinion would be. I could see him going either way.
15:17	EvanR	is there a way to multi-line comment, such as a section of a map literal (in which case #_ does not work)
15:18	justin_smith	#_( ... ) works
15:18	justin_smith	just remember to remove the parens with the #_
15:18	amalloy	EvanR: there is no multi-line comment except those that work on single sexps
15:18	EvanR	trying that
15:19	justin_smith	&{:a 0 #_(:b 1 :c 2)}
15:19	lazybot	⇒ {:a 0}
15:19	EvanR	works
15:20	puredanger	you could put " " around the whole thing :)
15:20	EvanR	not in a map literal
15:20	puredanger	well, then #_" "
15:20	amalloy	puredanger: also no good if there are any strings inside
15:20	puredanger	you people are too smart
15:21	amalloy	the parens are nice because it only requires N well-formed sexps
15:21	EvanR	as opposed to infinite?
15:22	amalloy	EvanR: infinite??? as opposed to needing sexps that don't have string, or aren't in a map literal, or...
15:22	EvanR	nevermind
15:30	TimMc	,[1 2 #_#_#_#_ 3 4 5 6 7] ;; EvanR
15:30	clojurebot	[1 2 7]
15:31	EvanR	hmm
15:33	TimMc	Let me just trot out one of my favorite weird syntax things...
15:34	TimMc	,(#(+ 1 2 #_ %4) :a :b :c :d)
15:34	clojurebot	3
15:38	hyPiRion	TimMc: That's a nice find
15:38	coffeeElf	Hello All
15:38	TimMc	Someone showed it to me a year or two ago.
15:39	coffeeElf	I am new to IRC and trying to learn Clojure
15:39	coffeeElf	Know a bit of java
15:40	coffeeElf	Can Clojure functions have names like 'str->int' ?
15:40	justin_smith	yes
15:40	coffeeElf	So it is just a name, no speacial meaning to that arrow !!
15:40	EvanR	but not int<:real
15:40	justin_smith	,(defn str->int [s] (Integer/parseInt s))
15:40	clojurebot	#'sandbox/str->int
15:40	justin_smith	,(str->int "1")
15:40	clojurebot	1
15:40	justin_smith	right
15:41	coffeeElf	thanks guys
15:41	coffeeElf	sandbox is the name space ?
15:42	justin_smith	yes, it is clojurebot's namespace
15:42	TimMc	hyPiRion: Clearly the solution to the problem of positional args in fn literals is to keep track in a monad.
15:42	justin_smith	and #' indicates a var
15:42	hyPiRion	TimMc: exactly that
15:43	TimMc	I still don't quite understand monads but at least I know when I could be using them!
15:44	amalloy	you can tell what issues i just love bringing up, because chrome autofills "d" to dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-865
15:44	coffeeElf	(defn str->int [str] (Integer. str))
15:44	coffeeElf	What does that function body do exactly ?
15:45	justin_smith	it calls the Integer constructor
15:45	coffeeElf	(Integer. str) ?
15:45	justin_smith	,(Integer. "1")
15:45	clojurebot	1
15:45	justin_smith	classname followed by . indicates that you are calling the constructor
15:45	justin_smith	$google clojure java interop
15:45	lazybot	[Clojure - java_interop] http://clojure.org/java_interop
15:45	coffeeElf	cool
15:45	EvanR	,(number "1")
15:45	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: number in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
15:45	EvanR	,(int "1")
15:45	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to java.lang.Character>
15:46	justin_smith	coffeeElf: see the above link for the official intro
15:46	justin_smith	(to instantiating java classes in clojure code, and using their methods)
15:46	verma	,(Integer/parseInt "11")
15:46	clojurebot	11
15:46	andyf	EvanR: Emacs, vim, and most or all code editors can prefix or remove comments from contiguous range of lines with a few keystrokes. Good to learn those, and avoid fancy tricks, IMO
15:47	EvanR	andyf: well, the comments have to exist before that can be removed with a single keystroke, so i used #_( .... ), though i dont know how to remove this in vim at the moment
15:48	EvanR	since the inside is not a single expr
15:48	coffeeElf	Thanks Justin
15:48	justin_smith	EvanR: he's referring to "comment region" - which I am sure fireplace can do
15:48	justin_smith	coffeeElf: np
15:50	coffeeElf	Looks like this this chat also works as a REPL :)
15:51	coffeeElf	(println "Hello")
15:51	coffeeElf	,(println "Hello")
15:51	clojurebot	Hello\n
15:53	amalloy	coffeeElf: if you're going to use him as a repl, rather than to assist in demonstrating something or asking a question, please do so in /msg
15:53	justin_smith	I hear it is possible to run a repl locally too
15:54	crash_ep	Does anyone know if there is a way to get Midje to evaluate the `msg` parameter to `fact`?
15:54	coffeeElf	Will do, was just trying to check if this really is a REPL
15:54	EvanR	is Integer/parseInt a static method
15:54	crash_ep	In my case it is a symbol that points to a string, not a string literal…
15:54	coffeeElf	have a REPL running on my PC
15:54	coffeeElf	Thanks guys
15:54	justin_smith	EvanR: yes it is
15:55	EvanR	,(Integer/parseInt "abc")
15:55	amalloy	coffeeElf: it's not a very good repl, really. if you try to print long or deep lists he'll balk, and he'll forget anything you've def'd within a few minutes
15:55	clojurebot	#<NumberFormatException java.lang.NumberFormatException: For input string: "abc">
15:55	EvanR	amalloy: a time limit just makes you better, like practicing basketball with a way smaller hoop, or training in the hyperbolic time chamber
15:56	EvanR	or using dynamic types for everything
15:59	poushkar	could someone look at small function please? https://gist.github.com/vitaly-pushkar/efb19a69232f4cc1ba6d
15:59	poushkar	I don’t get why it’s failing
15:59	TimMc	EvanR: oh snap
16:00	TimMc	poushkar: Is this a CLJS thing? What call are you making? What do you expect to have happen?
16:01	poushkar	@TimMc yes, sorry, it’s cljs. I expect it to return all values from atom if it’s called without arguments, and filtered version of first case if called with argument
16:01	justin_smith	poushkar: it looks like you are providing get-entries where your code expects (get-entries x)
16:01	justin_smith	poushkar: that's my best guess at least
16:03	poushkar	@justin_smith well, I am expecting it to accept both zero or one agrument
16:03	justin_smith	poushkar: that's not what I am talking aout
16:03	justin_smith	*about
16:03	justin_smith	I mean that the error is saying get-entries, the function, is not a sequence
16:04	justin_smith	but it would return one
16:04	EvanR	i havent used joda time, is clj-time doing very much as a wrapper?
16:04	justin_smith	so likely something is getting get-entries where you meant to give it the return value of calling get-entries
16:04	justin_smith	if you want to provide no args, the syntax is (get-entries)
16:05	poushkar	oh, I see, let me try
16:05	poushkar	yes, that works! thank you @justin_smith
16:06	justin_smith	np. Just remember that clojure doesn't implicitly evaluate very often, you almost always need () to make evaluation happen
16:06	justin_smith	sorry s/evaluation/invocation/g
16:08	poushkar	yeah, spent on it like 20 minutes, gonna remember that forever now :D
16:09	EvanR	and putting extra ( ) around stuff is usually bad
16:09	justin_smith	right, unless you want an extra invocation to happen of course
16:24	mikerod	I have been messing around with emacs-live and it has some "save hook" type of function that removes all trailing whitespace in a given file when I hit save - this is then not even undo-able.
16:24	mikerod	Anyone have an idea what is causing this? This actually isn't great when we don't want git to show all these white space changes in big files.
16:24	mikerod	I believe (haven't tested) it is specific to clj files
16:25	mikerod	I'm not sure where this falls in the emacs structure
16:25	justin_smith	mikerod: try M-x describe-variabe after-save-hook
16:25	mikerod	I know this isn't strictly clj related, but emacs-live is mostly meant for clj dev with cider and some extra configs
16:26	justin_smith	mikerod: it may also be hooking into something clojure-mode specific, but I would check after-save-hook first
16:27	CaptainLex\|2	I'm having trouble with splitting a pipe-delimited string. The regex for matching a pipe doesn't even seem to work escaped
16:27	sg2002	mikerod: Search for 'delete-trailing-whitespace
16:27	CaptainLex\|2	,(clojure.string/split "Hello!\|World?" #"\\\|")
16:27	clojurebot	["" "H" "e" "l" "l" ...]
16:28	EvanR	,(split "a\|b\|c\|d" (re-pattern "\|"))
16:28	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: split in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
16:28	EvanR	,(clojure.string/split "a\|b\|c\|d" (re-pattern "\|"))
16:28	clojurebot	["" "a" "\|" "b" "\|" ...]
16:28	EvanR	double fail
16:28	justin_smith	(= (re-pattern "\|") #"\|")
16:29	justin_smith	,(= (re-pattern "\|") #"\|")
16:29	clojurebot	false
16:29	justin_smith	hm
16:29	justin_smith	that surprises me
16:29	EvanR	object equality
16:29	justin_smith	of course
16:29	dnolen_	getting excited about adding cata-matching to core.match a la Friedman et al
16:29	justin_smith	,(clojure.string/split "a\|b\|c\|d" #"\|")
16:29	clojurebot	["" "a" "\|" "b" "\|" ...]
16:29	justin_smith	,(clojure.string/split "a\|b\|c\|d" #"\\|")
16:29	clojurebot	["a" "b" "c" "d"]
16:30	CaptainLex\|2	Gah!
16:30	justin_smith	EvanR: was the latter what you wanted?
16:30	justin_smith	or CaptainLex
16:30	CaptainLex\|2	The latter was what I wanted, yes
16:30	mikerod	justin_smith: sg2002 both of these were helpful. I ended up finding it i think under the `before-save-hook` actulally though
16:30	CaptainLex\|2	Why was I double-escaping it?
16:30	mikerod	emacs-live has this `live-cleanup-whitespace` there
16:30	mikerod	I think it is the culprit
16:30	mikerod	now to find the graceful way to disable that
16:30	justin_smith	CaptainLex: #"" is special, it makes it so you can use \ instead of \\
16:30	EvanR	you were trying to match literally a backslash followed by empty string
16:31	EvanR	i mean, backslash OR empty string
16:31	justin_smith	(re-pattern "\\\|") would have worked too
16:31	CaptainLex\|2	Well, wow, thanks guys!
16:31	CaptainLex\|2	That's been driving me crazy for the better part of two days at work
16:31	CaptainLex\|2	Not two days straight of regexes
16:31	CaptainLex\|2	just two days of getting frustrated and doing something else
16:32	mikerod	Looks like `(remove-hook 'before-save-hook 'live-cleanup-whitespace)` worked nice :)
16:33	justin_smith	oh, of course it would have to be before-save-hook, because otherwise it would make the change after you save...
16:34	mikerod	justin_smith: that's sort of what I thought :P
16:41	amalloy	mikerod: if you commit files with trailing whitespace you're an infidel, though
16:42	amalloy	huh. i just noticed the roots of "infidel". not believed? not believing? i guess it must just be nonbeliever
16:43	mikerod	amalloy: I don't like it either
16:43	mikerod	I'm competeting with Eclipse CounterClockwise formatter
16:43	mikerod	it likes to put a bunch of whitespace on empty lines
16:44	mikerod	to align with the lines around them
16:44	mikerod	this save hook for emacs-live destroys those too
16:44	mikerod	And I don't think the CounterClockwise stuff is configurable at that level, but emacs is. So I lose since I can change it in emacs to match the ccw users :P
16:45	justin_smith	the answer is to switch to ed, and then everybody needs to switch what they do to be ed compatible
16:45	mikerod	hmm
16:46	TimMc	justin_smith: I don't think anyone needs to switch. ed is the standard text editor. It can handle anything other editors produce. Ed is the standard text editor.
16:46	mikerod	I thought it has been decided that Emacs is the best editor - siting my source of http://xkcd.com/378/
16:47	justin_smith	M-butterfly is gibberish :P
16:47	amalloy	you don't have a butterfly key, justin_smith?
16:48	justin_smith	hah - and here I thought that was the windows logo
16:48	amalloy	a common mistake
16:49	amalloy	the apple logo looks a bit like a butterfly too. coincidence? i think not
16:50	mi6x3m	hey Clojure, any list of leiningen templates available?
16:51	amalloy	mi6x3m: https://clojars.org/search?q=lein-template
16:51	amalloy	based on the lein docs, which say "All lein templates have an artifact-id of "lein-template", and are differentiated by their group-id, which always should match the project for which they provide a template."
16:52	amalloy	(from https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/stable/doc/TEMPLATES.md)
16:52	mi6x3m	yes, this sounds reasonable :)
16:57	noncom\|2	how do i make uberjar consider the projects in the checkouts dir ?
16:57	noncom\|2	looks like it just ignores them...
16:57	noncom\|2	am i obliged to lein install them ?
16:58	arohner	huh. test.check gen/pos-int includes zero as a positive number
16:58	hiredman	:(
16:59	hiredman	are you sure?
16:59	arohner	user> (gen/sample gen/pos-int)
16:59	arohner	(0 0 0 3 4 5 5 6 5 2)
16:59	TimMc	heh
16:59	hiredman	:(
16:59	arohner	the bug is pos-int is an alias for gen/nat
16:59	hiredman	https://github.com/clojure/test.check/blob/master/src/main/clojure/clojure/test/check/generators.clj#L344-L350
17:00	TimMc	I think test.check would have foudn that with some generative testing. :-P
17:00	hiredman	neg-int will also generate 0
17:00	arohner	oh, wiki "There is no universal agreement about whether to include zero in the set of natural numbers"
17:00	hiredman	there is s-pos-int
17:00	arohner	:(
17:01	TimMc	I feel like distinct-by should be a thing.
17:01	TimMc	Does this feeling mean I am forgetting about some other fn?
17:03	EvanR	arohner: probably a good idea to include zero
17:03	EvanR	unless you have a reason not to
17:03	arohner	EvanR: why?
17:03	mi6x3m	anyone around using lein oneoff by any chance?
17:03	arohner	we already have gen/int, gen/nat
17:03	amalloy	TimMc: (flatland.useful.seq/groupings f (fn [a b] a) nil xs) kinda does this
17:03	mi6x3m	I keep getting FileNotFoundException when I try to execute my script
17:03	amalloy	no, i guess it doesn't
17:04	EvanR	arohner: well, practically, youd need to have another type like "Nat or zero" for most programming cases where you would use this type
17:04	TimMc	&(map first (vals (group-by even? (range 10))))
17:04	lazybot	⇒ (0 1)
17:04	arohner	EvanR: nat includes zero
17:05	EvanR	good
17:05	EvanR	i was refudiating the wiki quote above
17:05	TimMc	...but that accumulates values that should be tossed immediately, which could be unsuitable from some purposes.
17:06	EvanR	needs more lazy
17:06	amalloy	TimMc: i've certainly written distinct-by myself. http://amalloy.hubpages.com/hub/The-evolution-of-an-idea is a blog post i wrote ages ago, with a version of distinct-by that also allows you to keep up to N items in each bucket, instead of just 1
17:09	justin_smith	github formatting is still screwed https://github.com/clojure/data.csv/blob/master/src/main/clojure/clojure/data/csv.clj#L91
17:09	TimMc	ew
17:09	amalloy	that's actually a whole different problem, isn't it?
17:10	justin_smith	yeah, may be a new one
17:10	amalloy	the recent problems have just been styling the parsed language; this looks like a problem with parsing it
17:10	justin_smith	is there a place where we report those now?
17:11	amalloy	justin_smith: just drag complaints into the file labeled Recycling Bin
17:12	justin_smith	oh I've got to get me one of those - I assume a symlink to /dev/null would work?
17:15	andyf
17:16	ppppaul	how do you spell cognitech? i'm doing google searches and only coming up with some forensic websites
17:17	zerokarmaleft	cognitect
17:17	ppppaul	thansk
17:19	EvanR	,(sequential? {})
17:19	clojurebot	false
18:12	seangrove	,(let [print str] (resolve 'print))
18:12	clojurebot	#'clojure.core/print
18:12	justin_smith	resolve wouldn't ever work on let bindings would it?
18:13	arohner	,(doc resolve)
18:13	clojurebot	"([sym] [env sym]); same as (ns-resolve ns symbol) or (ns-resolve ns &env symbol)"
18:13	arohner	,(doc ns-resolve)
18:13	clojurebot	"([ns sym] [ns env sym]); Returns the var or Class to which a symbol will be resolved in the namespace (unless found in the environment), else nil. Note that if the symbol is fully qualified, the var/Class to which it resolves need not be present in the namespace."
18:13	amalloy	justin_smith: indeed not
18:13	seangrove	I'm not clear on why though
18:14	amalloy	seangrove: because locals aren't vars
18:14	seangrove	amalloy: Ah, ok
18:14	amalloy	and resolve looks up vars
18:15	seangrove	amalloy: Let me check a few things and I'll have a follow up :)
18:31	nicferrier	dealing with OS processes in clojure looks hard.
18:32	justin_smith	(.run (ProcessBuilder. "ls" "-l"))
18:32	justin_smith	or you can just use clojure.java.shell of course
18:32	justin_smith	but that's not as flexible
18:32	nicferrier	justin_smith: yeah. we talked yesterday. I'm using conch.
18:32	justin_smith	got it. I decided pretty quickly using ProcessBuilder / Process was easier than using conch myself
18:33	nicferrier	my current problem is that I want to start a bunch of processes and do something when one of them finishes.
18:33	nicferrier	you can't future it because you can't do the equivalent of alt! with futures.
18:34	nicferrier	it looks like I have to allocate a thread just to run each process, or at least to collect it's exit.
18:34	justin_smith	sounds like you want a collection of processes, and a loop where you check .isAlive on each process? probably paring each process with the function to call when it finishes
18:34	justin_smith	then sleep and loop again, of course
18:35	nicferrier	yeah. that sucks. I might as well have used java.
18:35	justin_smith	well, this part is java. clojure has nothing nice beyond the java apis - but clojure has better tools for using those apis though
18:35	nicferrier	but not in this case.
18:35	nicferrier	hey ho.
18:36	amalloy	clojurebot: clojure \|has\| nothing nice beyond the java APIs
18:36	clojurebot	'Sea, mhuise.
18:37	justin_smith	nicferrier: what I mean by better tools is the general lispy abstractions you can use. conch makes a decent attempt but doesn't really address your use case.
18:38	nicferrier	justin_smith: I think this shows a poor future api.
18:38	nicferrier	I can't see how the poor future api is compensated by the core.async stuff.
18:38	nicferrier	probably it is more than compensated normally, just the case of external processes is weak.
18:38	nicferrier	it is a bit odd I guess.
18:39	nicferrier	sorry, I'm just moaning really I guess.
18:39	justin_smith	nicferrier: I have the very early stages of a "process graph" lib that would create the equivalent of shell pipelines, but made out of a clojure datastructure so that individual parts can be reconnected / teed off / restarted as needed. It's really not near usable yet though.
18:40	nicferrier	sounds cool.
18:41	justin_smith	but I resigned myself that it needs a nanny thread that moves the data between the processes. Or even if it goes into parallel paths it would need one nanny per branch.
18:41	nicferrier	one thread per process?
18:41	justin_smith	but that's better than one extra thread per process at least
18:41	justin_smith	no
18:41	justin_smith	one per parallel path
18:41	justin_smith	remember I mentioned tees :)
18:41	nicferrier	not sure how you're going to tell when they finish.
18:41	justin_smith	so if it is linear, you only need one nanny
18:42	justin_smith	nicferrier: (.isAlive proc)
18:42	justin_smith	the api is really small file:///home/justin/java/doc/api/index.html
18:42	justin_smith	err, sorry, bad link
18:42	nicferrier	it's not like waiting on the exit status though.
18:42	justin_smith	https://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/lang/Process.html
18:42	justin_smith	nicferrier: no, this is for processes I expect to stay alive for a long time
18:43	nicferrier	isalive isn't in j7
18:44	justin_smith	wow, that is surprising, and also sad
18:44	nicferrier	it's a j8 thing?
18:44	justin_smith	yeah, that leaves you in a tough place if you don't want a nanny thread per process
18:44	justin_smith	I guess so
18:44	amalloy	is justin_smith running java 9 or something? i remember another suggestion recently for something that doesn't exist yet
18:45	justin_smith	haha - .isAlive does exist in java 8
18:45	nicferrier	guess your api won't work then.
18:45	nicferrier	:-)
18:45	amalloy	i'm on java 34 now
18:45	nicferrier	christ. I hope it's dead by then.
18:47	nicferrier	I guess I just need a thread per process.
18:47	justin_smith	what about checking if the output stream is closed? that's a hack I guess
18:48	nicferrier	yes. definitely.
18:48	nicferrier	unix is hard. doing anything but exit status makes it harder.
18:49	nicferrier	I wouldn't trust any polling particularly.
18:49	justin_smith	what does .exitValue return for a running Process?
18:49	nicferrier	it doesn't.
18:49	nicferrier	it excepts.
18:50	nicferrier	I should have said "Maybe" that would have been a nice haskell joke.
18:50	justin_smith	putting a try/catch on that would be yet another disappointing hack of a way to do it
18:51	nicferrier	don't see that's any better than (and @one @two @three) ?
18:51	justin_smith	less threads used. But yeah, just use futures unless you have hundreds of process I guess.
18:52	nicferrier	why less threads?
18:52	nicferrier	oic. right.
18:53	justin_smith	you could launch the process inside something that returns you the PID, then you could use a shell call to check if that PID is live
18:54	nicferrier	no. that would be terrible.
18:54	nicferrier	you've got the process handle from launching it! so wasteful not to use it.
18:54	justin_smith	but the information actually needed is obfuscated
18:54	ffwacom	does future pull from a thread pool or does it always create a new thread?
18:54	nicferrier	possibly using a thread to poll the exitValue and send a message to a channel.
18:54	nicferrier	sigh.
18:55	justin_smith	ffwacom: thread pool
18:55	nicferrier	^^
18:55	nicferrier	but it's so annoying you can't resolve on a bunch of futures.
18:57	nicferrier	when a future is "promised" it's mapped to a thread, right?
18:57	nicferrier	the thread is taken all the time the future is extant.
18:58	justin_smith	yeah, futures don't jump between threads.
18:59	justin_smith	and they don't let go of them until fully completed
18:59	nicferrier	s'what I thought.
19:01	nicferrier	they complete though without specfically derefing them. right?
19:02	nicferrier	so my future could be (future (go (>! exit-channel (.waitFor proc))))
19:02	nicferrier	and I don't then have to block on all of them
19:02	amalloy	future (go ...) looks like a bad plan
19:03	nicferrier	ok. (future (>!! exit-channel (.waitFor proc)))
19:03	amalloy	yeah, i think you have to do like that
19:03	amalloy	or even (thread (>! ...)) is probably fine, right?
19:03	nicferrier	don't think it matters.
19:04	nicferrier	idk. can't find the doc for fn thread :-)
19:04	amalloy	thread is supposed to be like go, except that it uses a thread from the future pool instead of the core.async pool
19:04	amalloy	something like that anyway
19:05	nicferrier	future seems fine for what I did?
19:05	devn	im late to the party: could you use agents + add-watch?
19:06	nicferrier	possibly. idk enough about agents.
19:06	hiredman	https://github.com/clojure/core.async/blob/master/src/main/clojure/clojure/core/async.clj#L392 not the future thread pool
19:06	nicferrier	central problem - how to wait on the process.
19:06	hiredman	(but pretty close)
19:07	nicferrier	agents sound like actors.
19:07	amalloy	nicferrier: they're not. rich even has a blog post or something, about how the main thing they have in common is names of professions that start with A
19:07	nicferrier	ha.
19:09	nicferrier	anyway. food for thought. thanks everyone!
19:09	nicferrier	it's a jolly interesting exercise. I have this already in scala and it's interesting to see what the strengths/weaknesses are.
19:09	Morgawr	is it possible to do nested structural matching with :keys ?
19:09	Morgawr	like if I have {:hello {:world 3}}
19:10	Morgawr	and I want to get the symbol world in a let
19:10	sg2002	Is there a reason why ob-clojure in the stable org is so obsolete and you have to install dev version of org to use it?
19:10	Morgawr	I have to do [{:keys [world]} (:hello data)]
19:10	Morgawr	can I move the :hello to the other side?
19:11	amalloy	Morgawr: you don't use :keys for that. are you aware that :keys is shorthand for a more flexible map destructuring?
19:11	hiredman	the people who make tools don't value stability of said tools as much as the people who use them
19:11	Morgawr	amalloy: what do you mean?
19:12	amalloy	Morgawr: (let [{:keys [x]} m] x) just expands to (let [{x :x} m] x)
19:13	Morgawr	so I can do (let [{{world :world} :hello} x] ...) ?
19:13	Morgawr	(where x is the map)
19:15	devn	,(let [{{world :world} :hello} {:hello {:world 3}}] world)
19:15	clojurebot	3
19:15	devn	Morgawr: yes. ;)
19:15	Morgawr	nice
19:15	Morgawr	is it the best way to do it?
19:15	Morgawr	if I want to abstract multiple keywords as symbols from maps within maps
19:15	Morgawr	or is there a more idiomatic way?
19:16	devn	,(get-in {:hello {:world 3}} [:hello :world])
19:16	clojurebot	3
19:16	Morgawr	yes but that doesn't look elegant in a let binding
19:16	devn	,(get-in {:hello {:world [1 2 3]}} [:hello :world 1])
19:16	clojurebot	2
19:16	devn	your choice, just sayin...
19:16	Morgawr	and I might want to get multiple symbols
19:16	Morgawr	like normal :keys destructuring but for inner maps :)
19:17	Morgawr	but yeah thanks for the examples
19:17	Morgawr	I love programming in clojure, it's all reasoning about data transformation
19:17	Morgawr	I've been using it for 2 years and my thought process is so different from most other languages I use every day, I start from two structures, the input and output I want, then I work twards turning the input into the output
19:17	Morgawr	I've never really done that before, it's cool
19:18	devn	Morgawr: it's kind of like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CS7j5I6aOc
19:18	Morgawr	ahah yes :P
19:58	akkad	Morgawr: yeah it's a nice group compared to CL :P
20:46	hydo	Is there any way to change the class loader aside from loading from java or patching the source? I'm sure this hasn't changed, but I thought it was worth asking.
20:46	TEttinger	hydo, ask rritoch when he gets back, he's been working with classloader related things for OSGi for a while
20:46	hydo	I'm runing a (one character) change to the 1.7 source and I'm runing into weird issues with (instance?)
20:47	hydo	which probably means I should have grabbed the 1.6.x source instead. duh.
20:47	TEttinger	what's the one character change?
20:48	hydo	Flipping T to F in RT.java line 202 or thereabouts.
20:48	TEttinger	ah. what behavior does it change?
20:48	amalloy	defaults use-context-classloader to false, apparently
20:49	amalloy	that sounds like a really scary switch to be flipping
20:49	hydo	use-context-classloader to False. Changes the default classloader, to... something. I know far too little about java's guts.
20:49	TEttinger	ah, https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/RT.java#L205
20:50	hydo	amalloy: I read a few threads and articles about others doing it before I did it. :)
20:50	hydo	research is best search
20:50	TEttinger	why the ops, amalloy?
20:50	hydo	The reason for it is that I'm loading clojure in a plugin to another huge java application.
20:51	amalloy	TEttinger: had someone to kick
20:51	amalloy	the usual PM spam
20:51	hydo	TEttinger: Thanks! I'll watch for 'em.
20:53	kenrestivo	i'm going to create github project called solo hoy. not sure what it'll do, but i got the name picked out
20:54	TEttinger	hydo: he also forked clojure, you can see some of his code dealing with classloader-like stuff here https://github.com/rritoch/clojure/commit/0f4804bbf584049fd85ffa872f10522cc41eff9a
20:54	Morgawr	is there an equivalent to update-in but for singular key?
20:54	Morgawr	like assoc -> assoc-in
20:54	Morgawr	???? -> update-in
20:54	TEttinger	Morgawr: update should be in 1.7
20:54	amalloy	kenrestivo: you might want to check whether that's offensive or obscene first
20:54	Morgawr	TEttinger: awesome!
20:54	TEttinger	amalloy: only today
20:54	TEttinger	hoy is now, solo is only
20:54	Morgawr	is there an estimated release date for clojure 1.7?
20:55	amalloy	TEttinger: i actually hadn't even been certain it was spanish, because it's always "hooy", rather than "hoy"
20:56	kenrestivo	heah it means "only today". i take it to mean "HURRY ACT NOW!" or some such spammy thing, given the context
20:56	kenrestivo	or, given the spelling, "hurry act noooooooow!"
20:56	amalloy	yeah, apparently so
21:03	arrdem	oh right amalloy has ops now
21:03	amalloy	arrdem: indeed. tread lightly, lest you feel the back of my hand
21:27	andyf	Morgawr: No estimated release date for Clojure 1.7 that I have heard. Wouldn't be surprised if it were in the 2-5 months from now range.
21:28	andyf	You can use 1.7.0-alpha4 release if you like
21:28	hydo	anything amazing and awesome coming in 1.7?
21:28	arrdem	Transducers, feature expressions
21:28	hydo	I mean aside from sparklea new releasesparkle
21:28	hydo	oh yea, I need to watch that video.
21:29	arrdem	there were noises about lean clojure or profiles, but those noises seem headed in the direction of 1.8
21:29	Morgawr	andyf: alright, thanks :) I'll give a look at it but not using it yet for "real" work
21:35	justin_smith	nicferrier: hey! when you use ProcessBuilder, it should be returning a UnixProcess which has nice methods that Process does not
21:35	justin_smith	$javadoc java.lang.UnixProcess
21:46	arrdem	justin_smith: "nice methods" (.nice p)
21:47	justin_smith	hah
21:56	wildnux	hi
21:56	wildnux	,(map #(repeat 2 %) [1 2])
21:56	clojurebot	((1 1) (2 2))
21:57	wildnux	^^ that changed from my [1 2] (vector) to sequence/list
21:57	wildnux	how can i preserve the type of collection when we use functions like this
21:58	wildnux	how can i make it such that it gives me [[1 1] [2 2]]
22:00	arrdem	wildnux: is there a reason that you care about concrete type?
22:00	wildnux	arrdem: i am going though 4clojure
22:00	arrdem	wildnux: also why would you expect that behavior from those two functions which are documented to return seqs
22:00	arrdem	wildnux: ah. oh. my b.
22:00	wildnux	arrdem: i want to use the same function which can return same type
22:01	arrdem	wildnux: ##(= [:a :b] (quote (:a :b)))
22:01	lazybot	⇒ true
22:01	arrdem	##(= [[1 1] [2 2]] '((1 1) (2 2)))
22:01	lazybot	⇒ true
22:02	amalloy	wildnux: you mostly should not worry about preserving the types of your collections
22:02	wildnux	,(flatten (map #(repeat 2 %) '([1 2] [3 4]))
22:02	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
22:02	amalloy	they will tend to be lazy seqs most of the time, and that will be fine
22:03	wildnux	,(flatten (map #(repeat 2 %) '([1 2] [3 4])))
22:03	clojurebot	(1 2 1 2 3 ...)
22:07	wildnux	arrdem: found it ;)
22:07	wildnux	,(mapcat #(repeat 2 % ) [[1 2] [3 4]]
22:07	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
22:07	wildnux	,(mapcat #(repeat 2 % ) [[1 2] [3 4]])
22:07	clojurebot	([1 2] [1 2] [3 4] [3 4])
22:07	cursivecode	yogothosjaway: ping
22:11	arrdem	wildnux: sweet!
22:15	arrdem	alright... core.logic patching time
22:21	hydo	transducers are interesting.
22:23	hydo	I'm at 30:45 of the strangeloop video and he hasn't mentioned monads yet, except for the image of a burrito.
22:31	sm0ke	cheshire should have a json to xml converter
22:37	arrdem	shouldn't be too hard to hack one up...
22:40	sm0ke	hurm jackson seems to have some support builtin
22:41	sm0ke	https://github.com/FasterXML/jackson-dataformat-xml
22:45	justin_smith	sm0ke: and jackson is what cheshire uses iirc
22:45	sm0ke	yes right
22:46	sm0ke	i am thinking of forking cheshire to hack xml support
22:47	sm0ke	i think the support for xml would make sense in cheshire i.e. to from json
23:03	seajames	Is there a way to destruct a vector and map? I'm trying this but it isn't working (let [[[foo bar] {:keys [other thing]}] ["Hello" "World"] {:other "Good" :thing "bye"}] (println foo))
23:03	crack_user	hello guys
23:05	justin_smith	seajames: ##(let [[foo bar {:keys [other thing]}] ["hello" "world" {:other "good" :thing "bye"}]] foo)
23:05	lazybot	⇒ "hello"
23:06	justin_smith	seajames: your nesting was weird (and not even valid for a let block)
23:06	crack_user	some one knows a sql lib which a can write queries in more clojure way?
23:06	crack_user	like (take 2 users) or (filter #(> :age 21) users)
23:07	arrdem	so I'm parsing XML by doing what amounts to a recursive reduce over the nodes in the tree carying forwards a state value.
23:07	arrdem	ideas for how to implement progress tracking on the reduction?
23:07	seajames	justin_smith: thanks, first time trying this
23:08	arrdem	I figure it's probably easty to count leaf nodes and track the number of leaf nodes processed, but I'm not a great fan of doing IO from this otherwise pure parser.
23:08	justin_smith	arrdem: reductions and carry some updated progress state alongside the accumulator?
23:08	sm0ke	arrdem: isnt counting leaf node as expensive as paring it?
23:10	arrdem	sm0ke: shouldn't be.. I'm doing some relatively heavy lifting in the "parser". really I'm using data.xml to parse, then walking it with a slow importer that I refer to as a "parser".
23:10	arrdem	justin_smith: yeah.. that could work.
23:11	sm0ke	crack_user: strange idea
23:12	sm0ke	a nice one though
23:12	justin_smith	sm0ke: crack_user: there's datalog (including datomic), but it doesn't look like normal syntax
23:13	crack_user	justin_smith: I see datalog
23:13	sm0ke	crack_user: justin_smith i'd say korma would be closest to it
23:14	crack_user	I like the ideia to treat my database as clojure data structure
23:14	crack_user	in some cases it can be useful
23:15	arrdem	bytemyapp and cbp's revise mongodb wrapper has an interesting query structure
23:15	arrdem	it gets close to "normal" clojure code
23:15	arrdem	s/mongodb/rethinkdb/
23:16	sm0ke	crack_user: what you want can be done simply via java.jdbc over the query-seq
23:16	sm0ke	but what one would ideally want is to to push the filters etc to db
23:17	sm0ke	e.g. (take 2 user) should translate to select * from user limit 2
23:18	crack_user	sm0ke: something like it
23:18	sm0ke	i am not sure how that can be implemented
23:18	warz	maybe something line LINQ-to-SQL can be an inspiration?
23:19	sm0ke	obviosly not everything will work, eg. (filter my-fancy-func user)
23:19	justin_smith	well, clojure.java.jdbc returns a lazy query seq over the transaction, so if you take 2 from the seq it gives you, only that much is grabbed from the db.
23:19	sm0ke	so i would say it would be very very hard to implement
23:19	sm0ke	justin_smith: what about filters?
23:19	justin_smith	sm0ke: that would have to happen on the clojure side unless you are willing to translate
23:20	sm0ke	i was just giving a small example
23:20	justin_smith	sure
23:20	justin_smith	just saying, lazy results and take N is doable now
23:20	sm0ke	justin_smith: alway finding holes in my comments :D
23:21	crack_user	justin_smith: yes, lazy query resolve the take example
23:23	hydo	Is there a known thing with (instance? thing Class) saying thing can't be cast to a java.lang.Class? I traced my code back just to make sure, but I don't see what I'm doing wrong. I got to where I opted for (= (class thing) (resolve (symbol "class.path"))) but that's just silly.
23:24	hydo	Though, while silly, it does work correctly... so it has that going for it.
23:24	justin_smith	hydo: you have the args in the wrong order I think
23:25	justin_smith	&(instance java.lang.String "hello")
23:25	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: instance in this context
23:25	sm0ke	,(doc instance?)
23:25	clojurebot	"([c x]); Evaluates x and tests if it is an instance of the class c. Returns true or false"
23:25	hydo	! no way. looking..
23:25	sm0ke	yep
23:25	justin_smith	&(instance? java.lang.String "hello")
23:25	lazybot	⇒ true
23:25	hydo	oh my god.
23:25	hydo	I'm sorry :( I really try to ask intelligent questions. I'm just dumb.
23:25	hydo	heh
23:25	justin_smith	(instance? Newb hydo) => true but that's OK
23:26	hydo	totally
23:26	justin_smith	I make dumb mistakes all the time, and I don't even have an excuse
23:26	hydo	I make dumb mistakes and then tell everyone on the internet about them. hehe. but I do eventually learn, so I guess that's good.
23:27	hydo	like "Double check your assumptions before asking irc." Just learned that one today!
23:32	arrdem	$grim clojure.core/instance?
23:32	lazybot	http://grimoire.arrdem.com/1.6.0/clojure.core/instance_QMARK
23:32	munderwo	Hey all. I’ve got some interop code in clojurescript that has three levels of callbacks. I wrote some horrible core.async code to get it kinda working, but Im sure there is a better way to do it. this is what I have so far
23:32	munderwo	https://www.refheap.com/94712
23:32	arrdem	justin_smith: I owe you a patch to make that conj.io...
23:33	munderwo	does anybody have any suggestions on how to make it better?
23:34	rritoch	In refrence to hydo's issue, I really need to get in the habbit of using the doc function instead of constantly googling to double-check argument order. clojure.string/split is usually the one I use backwards so I always need to double-check it. Some habbits are hard to break.
23:34	sm0ke	mumrah: get-commit makes no sense, as `c` is local
23:35	sm0ke	opps sorry ^ munderwo
23:35	sm0ke	unles (go..) returns a channel?
23:36	munderwo	sm0ke: yeah, when I said this was horrible it really is.. What the code is doing is passing a chan (is his case c) through the callbacks and then blocking until the last callback puts something on that chan. and then returns the output of that into blob.
23:37	munderwo	im wondering if I can put this all in a go block with a let in it for each step?
23:40	sm0ke	munderwo: i would say its too much overhead to use a go block for every meta you are trying to fetch
23:41	sm0ke	it does not look very cpu intensive anyways
23:41	munderwo	ahh because I would need a seperate one for each?
23:42	munderwo	Its not cpu intensive. Its just node.js so everything is async.
23:42	sm0ke	yea well there is a (go..) in every method
23:42	munderwo	have you dealt with callbacks by using core.async before?
23:43	sm0ke	well if its already asynchronus you done need to put another layer of asynchrony over it?
23:44	sm0ke	munderwo: core.async is not really about callbacks
23:44	sm0ke	its more like queues consumers and producers id say
23:45	munderwo	right, but I’ve seen that you can sometimes convert very call back intensive code into core.async and make it more readable.
23:45	munderwo	not that im having much luck with the last part
23:45	munderwo	:)
23:46	crack_user	I think I build a very limited scoped lib of this ideia
23:46	crack_user	in the worst case it will be a complete waste of time
23:58	kenrestivo	is it weird that i have a preference for using futures for core.async loops instead of async/thread or async/go , and using future-cancel to stop them instead of using a kill channel?
23:58	kenrestivo	i mean, is that bad?