#clojure – 2014-11-09

2014-11-09

00:02	grandy	justin_smith: ok cool i'll keep investigating.. thanks again for the help
00:04	adereth	ls
00:04	bodie_	does cljs support normal clojure testing or do I need to integrate with a js testing kit?
00:09	TEttinger	##(* 55 11)
00:09	Guest35098	⇒ 605
00:09	TEttinger	that's odd
00:13	justin_smith	TEttinger: authentication issues, protected nick
00:13	TEttinger	heh
00:14	justin_smith	I forgot to verify authenticating with nickserv when I did the irclj update
00:15	TEttinger	yay
00:15	Raynes	He oughta stick this time.
00:15	justin_smith	&clojure-version
00:15	lazybot	⇒ {:major 1, :minor 7, :incremental 0, :qualifier "alpha1"}
00:15	justin_smith	WOO
00:16	Raynes	&clojure-version
00:16	amalloy	(inc justin_smith)
00:16	lazybot	⇒ {:major 1, :minor 7, :incremental 0, :qualifier "alpha1"}
00:16	lazybot	⇒ 122
00:16	amalloy	(inc Raynes)
00:16	lazybot	⇒ 53
00:16	TEttinger	(inc justin_smith)
00:16	lazybot	⇒ 123
00:16	Raynes	(inc justin_smith)
00:16	lazybot	⇒ 124
00:16	TEttinger	(inc Raynes)
00:16	lazybot	⇒ 54
00:16	Raynes	lol
00:16	TEttinger	(inc lazybot)
00:16	lazybot	⇒ 33
00:16	Raynes	That escalated quickly.
00:17	rritoch	TEttinger: What is this (inc username) about?
00:17	justin_smith	so liberal with the karma, what will we do in the dead of winter and the karma fields are frozen over? our egos may starve!
00:17	TEttinger	it's karma for users or other words
00:17	Raynes	It's an ego system.
00:17	justin_smith	rritoch: it's an informal way to say you appreciate someone's work, or agree with them
00:17	TEttinger	$karma rritoch
00:17	lazybot	rritoch has karma 0.
00:17	TEttinger	$karma technomancy
00:17	lazybot	technomancy has karma 155.
00:18	rritoch	Aah, I see
00:18	justin_smith	$karma amalloy
00:18	lazybot	amalloy has karma 187.
00:18	TEttinger	(inc procedural generation)
00:18	lazybot	⇒ 1
00:19	Raynes	lol
00:19	justin_smith	$karma procedural
00:19	lazybot	procedural has karma 0.
00:19	TEttinger	$karma procedural generation
00:19	lazybot	procedural has karma 0.
00:19	justin_smith	$karma procedural generation
00:19	lazybot	procedural has karma 0.
00:19	TEttinger	hm
00:19	justin_smith	hrmph
00:19	justin_smith	(identity procedural generation)
00:19	lazybot	procedural generation has karma 1.
00:19	TEttinger	I thought you fixed it
00:19	justin_smith	I thought the fix for that regex went in
00:19	justin_smith	Bronsa fixed it, and I made sure to propagate that (or I thought I did)
00:21	Raynes	Kinda losing faith in you guys and your ability to regex.
00:21	Raynes	:P
00:21	justin_smith	I'ts not the regex at all!
00:21	Raynes	DO I HAVE TA DO EVERYTHING MYSELF? GAWSH
00:21	rritoch	Before I forget to ask again. Is there a good maven repository to use for unofficial (alpha) releases of clojure technologies? I used clojars for my nativedep project, but I'm considering making my web platform public but it's nowhere near ready for a release so I'm not sure where to put the builds so anyone can play with it.
00:21	justin_smith	https://github.com/Raynes/lazybot/blob/master/src/lazybot/plugins/karma.clj#L61 Raynes this is the line that does it
00:21	justin_smith	notice it only looks at first args
00:22	justin_smith	that's the issue
00:22	justin_smith	or wait, should (inc procedural generation) only inc procedural?
00:22	justin_smith	is that it?
00:23	justin_smith	rritoch: there is a lot of sketchy / not ready for prime time stuff on clojars
00:23	Raynes	Actually, yeah, that looks correct.
00:23	Raynes	TEttinger: What did you expect to be fixed here? :o
00:23	TEttinger	$karma acting like (identity)
00:23	lazybot	acting has karma 0.
00:23	Raynes	Oh
00:24	justin_smith	TEttinger: which one is broken right now
00:24	TEttinger	$karma
00:24	justin_smith	right, so the issue is that call to first
00:24	justin_smith	like I said
00:24	justin_smith	cahnge (first args) to (string/join \space args)
00:24	justin_smith	the regex is fine
00:25	TEttinger	I remember in ##anyone , justin_smith fixed identity, inc, and dec for multiple words
00:25	justin_smith	unless we can get the raw line and use that? that may or may not be better
00:25	Raynes	justin_smith: YES I TOO KNOW HOW TO PROGRAM GOD
00:25	justin_smith	haha
00:25	Raynes	It's 9:30PM on a Saturday
00:25	Raynes	You're gonna have to be real patient with me.
00:25	Raynes	:P
00:25	justin_smith	dude, it's pair programming on IRC - fun stuff :)
00:25	justin_smith	my memory of the codebase is pretty fresh
00:26	justin_smith	also I have not been sniffing glue, for a change
00:27	zerkms	hm, why does this http://pastebin.com/1tnv6MPq prints all 3 lines but does not return control back to terminal?
00:27	rritoch	justin_smith: This is fairly far from ready for primetime though I did manage to achieve most of my objectives. I still need to implement the fscript deployment in the default theme and there's a bug in the servlet context wrapper because it isn't grabbing .jsp sources from OSGi packages but once those are done I think I'm going to make it public because I'm loosing interest in the project.
00:27	justin_smith	zerkms: (shutdown-agents)
00:28	justin_smith	zerkms: you have to tell clojure to stop the thread-pool if you used it, basically
00:28	rritoch	justin_smith: It was just too much coding and debugging of systems-level code with so little to show for it, nothing more than a giant just to support a "hello world" app.
00:28	zerkms	okay, I though it would do that itself
00:28	Raynes	$login
00:28	lazybot	You've been logged in.
00:28	zerkms	thanks
00:28	Raynes	$reload
00:28	lazybot	Reloaded successfully.
00:28	Raynes	$karma procedural generation
00:28	lazybot	procedural generation has karma 1.
00:29	Raynes	TEttinger: ^
00:29	justin_smith	there we go, nice
00:29	TEttinger	yaaaay
00:29	justin_smith	$karma karma karma karma karma chameleon
00:29	lazybot	karma karma karma karma chameleon has karma 0.
00:29	justin_smith	(inc karma karma karma karma chameleon)
00:29	lazybot	⇒ 1
00:30	justin_smith	$karma karma karma karma karma chameleon
00:30	lazybot	karma karma karma karma chameleon has karma 1.
00:30	justin_smith	(inc semantic satiation)
00:30	lazybot	⇒ 1
00:32	Raynes	$grim clojure.core/some->
00:32	lazybot	http://grimoire.arrdem.com/1.6.0/clojure.core/some->
00:32	Raynes	arrdem: ^
00:32	TEttinger	(inc amalloy)
00:32	lazybot	⇒ 1
00:32	TEttinger	oh no!
00:32	TEttinger	what could have happened!
00:32	Raynes	wut
00:32	Raynes	I didn't do that.
00:33	dbasch	$karma police
00:33	lazybot	police has karma 0.
00:33	TEttinger	(inc Raynes)
00:33	lazybot	⇒ 1
00:33	Raynes	What on earth
00:33	TEttinger	(inc Raynes)
00:33	lazybot	⇒ 55
00:33	Raynes	...
00:33	justin_smith	$karma amalloy
00:33	lazybot	amalloy has karma 187.
00:33	Raynes	Okay.
00:33	justin_smith	he is playing games with nonprinting characters :)
00:33	Raynes	OH.
00:33	TEttinger	:D
00:33	Raynes	I HATE YOU.
00:34	TEttinger	panic attack for a second there?
00:34	justin_smith	(dec amalloy)
00:34	lazybot	⇒ 0
00:34	Raynes	Briefly
00:34	justin_smith	it's the evil twin
00:34	justin_smith	Raynes: no need for you to panic, I would have been the one to blame after all
00:34	Raynes	I don't think that would be the case as I made a change immediately prior to the purported breakage.
00:35	justin_smith	&(map int "amalloy")
00:35	lazybot	⇒ (97 65279 109 97 108 108 111 121)
00:35	TEttinger	the character is \ufeff btw
00:35	justin_smith	&0xfeff
00:35	lazybot	⇒ 65279
00:35	justin_smith	indeed it is
00:36	justin_smith	silly TEttinger, putting BOMs in things
00:36	TEttinger	(let [ss (java.awt.datatransfer.StringSelection. "(inc a\ufeffmalloy)")] (.setContents (.getSystemClipboard (java.awt.Toolkit/getDefaultToolkit)) ss ss)) ;; in a repl generates whatever untypeable chars I want
00:36	justin_smith	not the inverse mind you, that would be crude
00:44	john2x	how do I update my repl session with changes in my project.clj? (not dependency changes, just updated :dev values)
00:44	justin_smith	john2x: lein is not a runtime tool
00:45	justin_smith	john2x: that said, you can use, for example, pallet/alembic to add dependencies from maven at runtime based on your project.clj
00:50	john2x	oh ok. thanks.
00:56	technomancy	I think he said not dependency changes
00:57	technomancy	john2x: some changes can be done on the fly and some can't
00:57	rritoch	justin_smith: I just opened the source, so it is officially public though I still need to fix some issues, document, and properly license everything
00:57	technomancy	:dev values is kind of imprecise
00:57	justin_smith	technomancy: oh, I missed the not depenency part, oops
00:59	rritoch	https://github.com/rritoch/clj-grid - Leiningen Plugin
00:59	rritoch	https://github.com/rritoch/clj-grid-kernel - Kernel
00:59	rritoch	https://github.com/rritoch/clj-grid-mvc - MVC Support
00:59	rritoch	https://github.com/rritoch/clj-grid-core - Core Library
00:59	rritoch	https://github.com/rritoch/clj-grid-version - Example app
01:00	john2x	nah I think I'll be fine restarting for now.. just found out about :headless repl, and the startup isn't too bad (at least it feels like it)
01:00	rritoch	With no docs open sourcing this monster is probably futile, but it is the first MVC web platform for clojure
01:01	john2x	now if only I could figure out how to make cider "refresh" the repl connection. or is cider smart enough to detect the restarted repl?
01:02	justin_smith	john2x: no it isn't. What kind of stuff are you trying to reset? you may want to look at stuartsierra's component system if you have things that need to restart / reset.
01:02	godd2	hyPiRion I just read your blog posts on persistent vectors and transients in Clojure. Thanks for the clear explanations :)
01:03	rritoch	I also need to move this junk to clojars I guess
01:03	rritoch	home.vnetpublishing.com is my development server and isn't up 24/7
01:05	rritoch	It is also no open to the public so I guess none of this code is functional without an account on my dev server :(
01:06	john2x	justin_smith: oh just trying to figure out a smoother workflow.. trying to start a new project using vagrant. so the repl needs to run in the vagrant VM. I was used to just cider-jack-in and then cider-restart, but jack-in starts its own repl.
01:07	john2x	*afaik
01:07	justin_smith	john2x: right, it does. component gives a really nice flexible way of resetting the state of various parts of your code without having to shut down the repl.
01:08	justin_smith	john2x: in terms of workflow, I like to start lein repl manually in a terminal, then use M-x cider to connect to it
01:09	justin_smith	among other things that means I can directly access it to quickly shut it down if it has frozen up my editor (which luckily only happens if I make big mistakes...)
01:10	john2x	ah good point on that. do you know if cider-restart remembers the parameters you passed to M-x cider?
01:10	justin_smith	I have never used cider-restart
01:11	technomancy	justin_smith: ya know, if you use a stable cider then the ability to quickly shut down when it freezes isn't actually all that useful =)
01:11	justin_smith	technomancy: I switched to 0.6.0 recently, maybe my habits will change
01:13	justin_smith	technomancy: bet you can make your emacs repl freeze up by printing a series of very long lines full of unprintable objects
01:13	justin_smith	there's a regex matcher that freaks the fuck out, and the more unreadable objects on a line the worse it gets
01:13	justin_smith	maybe one day I will try to narrow down and fix it
01:15	rritoch	justin_smith: Can you check out the example app https://github.com/rritoch/clj-grid-version and let me know what you think about the end product, and provide some feedback? I would like to move away from the gen-class's and move to pure clojure but since clojure doesn't have namespace inheritance I'm not sure that will be possible.
01:15	justin_smith	rritoch: sure, I am getting more and more braindead tonight, but I'll leave it open and check it out
01:17	justin_smith	TEttinger: have you seen nanogenmo? https://github.com/lizadaly/nanogenmo2014 seems up your alley, they are making pretty cool stuff
01:17	justin_smith	maybe not to late to enter the competition?
01:18	justin_smith	*too
01:18	justin_smith	https://github.com/dariusk/NaNoGenMo-2014
01:19	rritoch	justin_smith: I think it's going around... I've been working on this thing for about 3 months (on and off) and I've lost all direction which is the main reason I've decided to open source it to let the internet community decide it's future.
01:20	rritoch	justin_smith: Security wise it is a trade off, in the publics hand security holes can be discovered and repaired sooner, but it's also less secure since anyone can review the code and abuse any security flaws they find.
01:27	TEttinger	hm wha
01:27	justin_smith	pretty cool and flasy for an algorithmically generated text
01:27	justin_smith	*flashy
01:28	TEttinger	neat, justin_smith
01:28	rritoch	I opened up the apache server @ http://home.vnetpublishing.com:8080/~vwpdev/ where you can see the hello world in action, the version app is implemented as an OSGi plugin @ http://home.vnetpublishing.com:8080/~vwpdev/?app=version accept it doesn't work because the bug I mentioned where the securitycontext wrapper isn't looking into the OSGi plugins, it's currently only looking into tomcat paths.
01:28	justin_smith	TEttinger: whether or not I submit anything, it will be cool to see the results. But that manuscript is a tough act to follow
01:28	TEttinger	yah
01:31	justin_smith	I have a character-token markov chain, I may try tweaking it and putting together a submission. Feeding it the gettysburg address + little red riding hood got me some amusing results.
01:34	zerkms	guys, any hint why this notifies about every line twice: http://pastebin.com/zkMRL3Sv
01:34	zerkms	?
01:34	zerkms	tailer sources: http://commons.apache.org/proper/commons-io/apidocs/src-html/org/apache/commons/io/input/Tailer.html#line.395
01:38	rritoch	If you want to break it to see a stack trace you can request a non-existant app... http://home.vnetpublishing.com:8080/~vwpdev/?app=fu
02:05	luther07	01:03 [ certainty ] [ ggherdov ] [ karls ] [ nhanH ] [ shem ] [ yogthos\|away ]
02:22	john2x	where can I read about testing with fixtures? e.g. how to properly setup a test database all the way up to writing the actual tests?
03:11	arrdem	Raynes: Fuck yeah.
03:12	TEttinger	what's up, arrdem?
03:12	arrdem	TEttinger: just got back from Interstellar, saw Raynes testing the new $grim command
03:12	TEttinger	cool!
03:13	TEttinger	Interstellar is that thar space movie then?
03:13	arrdem	for "testing" here defined to be "my patch made it live"
03:13	TEttinger	:D
03:13	arrdem	TEttinger: yeah. I can't say anything because it's very spoilers sensitive, but as a bit of a space geek it was a v good albeit emotional movie
03:14	TEttinger	I do know it has space in it because it's called Interstellar
03:14	arrdem	hehe
03:14	arrdem	$grim clojure.core/concat
03:14	lazybot	http://grimoire.arrdem.com/1.6.0/clojure.core/concat
03:14	arrdem	noice
03:14	TEttinger	$grim join
03:14	TEttinger	$grim clojure.core/join
03:14	lazybot	http://grimoire.arrdem.com/1.6.0/clojure.core/join
03:14	arrdem	TEttinger: you have to fully qualify it at present :/
03:14	TEttinger	$grim clojure.string/join
03:14	lazybot	http://grimoire.arrdem.com/1.6.0/clojure.string/join
03:15	arrdem	Grimoire won't get a "real" search feature until 0.4.0, which is still in the works, so $grim is a bit of a hack :P
03:16	arrdem	it parses a fully qualified symbol, checks that it's in the Clojure core lib, and only then generates a URL.
03:16	arrdem	Ex.
03:16	arrdem	$grim me.arrdem.detritus.logging/debug
03:17	arrdem	not in a core namespace, so lazybot doesn't bother trying to generate a bad URL
05:02	godd2	is it possible to destructure params to an anonymous function?
05:09	TEttinger	godd2: ##(map (fn [[x y]] (+ x y)) [[1 2] [2 3] [3 4]])
05:09	lazybot	⇒ (3 5 7)
05:11	godd2	TEttinger I'm a dummy
05:11	godd2	Is it possible to do it with the #(...) form?
05:11	TEttinger	no worries
05:11	TEttinger	not with #()
05:12	TEttinger	you can however do...
05:12	TEttinger	##(map (let [[x y] %] (+ x y)) [[1 2] [2 3] [3 4]])
05:12	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: % in this context
05:12	TEttinger	##(map #(let [[x y] %] (+ x y)) [[1 2] [2 3] [3 4]])
05:12	lazybot	⇒ (3 5 7)
05:12	TEttinger	since let allows destructuring too
05:13	godd2	ooh I like that. okay awesome thank you :)
05:13	TEttinger	np
05:23	supersym	oh, the bot had an upgrade some time as well... nice
05:24	supersym	something ##(map list '[bim bum bam])
05:24	lazybot	⇒ ((bim) (bum) (bam))
05:24	supersym	cute
05:36	TEttinger	##(doc map)
05:36	lazybot	⇒ "([f] [f coll] [f c1 c2] [f c1 c2 c3] [f c1 c2 c3 & colls]); Returns a lazy sequence consisting of the result of applying f to the set of first items of each coll, followed by applying f to the set of second items in each coll, until any one of the colls is exhausted... https://www.refheap.com/92975
05:37	TEttinger	##(map inc)
05:37	lazybot	⇒ #<core$map$fn__4338 clojure.core$map$fn__4338@3020a258>
05:40	TEttinger	,(def xf (map inc))
05:40	clojurebot	#'sandbox/xf
05:40	TEttinger	,(sequence xf (range 6))
05:41	clojurebot	(1 2 3 4 5 ...)
05:41	TEttinger	,(def xf2 (comp (filter odd?) (map inc)))
05:41	clojurebot	#'sandbox/xf2
05:41	TEttinger	,(sequence xf2 (range 6))
05:41	clojurebot	(2 4 6)
05:42	TEttinger	,(into [] xf2 (range 6))
05:42	clojurebot	[2 4 6]
05:42	TEttinger	neat
05:54	rritoch	TEttinger: Is that a bug? The documentation for comp says it applies functions from right to left, if that was true shouldn't your example be dumping the odd values?
05:55	TEttinger	hmmm
05:55	Bronsa	rritoch: no, that's how transducers work. by composing they create a stack of transformations that are applied from the outermost to the innermost
05:55	TEttinger	,(doc comp)
05:55	clojurebot	"([] [f] [f g] [f g & fs]); Takes a set of functions and returns a fn that is the composition of those fns. The returned fn takes a variable number of args, applies the rightmost of fns to the args, the next fn (right-to-left) to the result, etc."
05:56	TEttinger	Bronsa, right, but here it applies the transducers left to right
05:56	metellus	,(filter odd?)
05:56	clojurebot	#<core$filter$fn__4368 clojure.core$filter$fn__4368@683f5>
05:56	Bronsa	TEttinger notice the "from the outermost to the innermost" part of
05:57	TEttinger	in the docs for comp?
05:57	Bronsa	((comp f g) x) -> (f (g x))
05:57	Bronsa	TEttinger in my message :)
05:57	TEttinger	,(do (def xf3 (comp (map inc) (filter odd?))) (into [] xf3 (range 6)))
05:57	clojurebot	[1 3 5]
05:57	Bronsa	TEttinger rritoch the way transducer seem to apply from right to left has nothing to do with comp
05:57	Bronsa	it has to do with how transducers are implemented
05:58	TEttinger	the docs for comp should be updated, this is confusing
05:58	rritoch	,((comp str +) 8 8 8)
05:58	clojurebot	"24"
05:58	metellus	how recently were the single arity versions of filter and map added?
05:58	Bronsa	TEttinger again, this has nothing to do with comp
05:58	Bronsa	metellus: 1.7
05:58	metellus	neat
05:58	Bronsa	metellus: which is still in alpha
05:59	metellus	that makes me feel better about not expecting them to work in the first place, then
05:59	TEttinger	so... if the docs don't go in the fn you're using, where do they go?
05:59	Bronsa	TEttinger this behaviour is documented in the clojure.org page for transducers
05:59	TEttinger	k
06:00	TEttinger	I'm getting too sleepy to understand this
06:00	TEttinger	night
06:01	Bronsa	,(def f (fn [f] (fn [x] (println "1") (f x))))
06:01	clojurebot	#'sandbox/f
06:01	rritoch	Bronsa: It's not so late here and I don't quite follow... (comp (filter odd?) (map inc)) should => (filter odd? (map inc args#)) shouldin't it?
06:01	Bronsa	,(def g (fn [g] (fn [x] (println "2") (g x)))
06:01	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
06:01	annelies	hi
06:01	Bronsa	,(((comp f g) identity) 3)
06:01	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: g in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
06:02	Bronsa	as you can see this runs f before g even thoug composition is left to right
06:02	Bronsa	though*
06:02	Bronsa	rritoch: no. transducers """compose""" right to left
06:03	Bronsa	rritoch: you can think of comp as ->> when using transducers
06:03	Bronsa	"The transducer xf is a transformation stack that will be applied by a process to a series of input elements. Each function in the stack is performed before the operation it wraps
06:03	Bronsa	Composition of the transformer runs right-to-left but builds a transformation stack that runs left-to-right (filtering happens before mapping in this example).
06:03	Bronsa	As a mnemonic, remember that comp of transducer functions is applied in the same order as ->> with sequence functions.
06:03	Bronsa	rritoch: this is what's written in http://clojure.org/transducers, if that's clearer to you
06:05	Bronsa	metellus: if you look at the example I just evaluated in clojurebot you'll understand how transducers seem to compose right to left
06:05	rritoch	,((comp (partial str "A") (partial str "B") (partial str "C")) "=IN=")
06:05	clojurebot	"ABC=IN="
06:05	Bronsa	rritoch*
06:05	Bronsa	(metellus sorry the message was not for you)
06:06	metellus	'sok
06:06	rritoch	Bronsa: So basically the documentation is wrong?
06:06	Bronsa	rritoch: no the documentation is right
06:06	rritoch	https://clojuredocs.org/clojure.core/comp
06:06	Bronsa	rritoch: again, composition always happens left to right
06:06	rritoch	That says functions are applied right to left, output of rightmost fed to the next
06:07	Bronsa	durr, right to left
06:07	Bronsa	rritoch: did you look at my example? I'll paste it again in a nopaste
06:07	Bronsa	rritoch: http://sprunge.us/QIah
06:08	Bronsa	rritoch: notice that it's not invoking directly the result of (comp f g)
06:10	rritoch	I see your example, it is running left to right but the documentation says right to left
06:10	Bronsa	no.
06:10	Bronsa	one sec, I'll try to make this clearer
06:11	rritoch	((comp println inc) 1)
06:11	rritoch	,((comp println inc) 1)
06:11	clojurebot	2\n
06:11	rritoch	,((comp str inc) 1)
06:11	clojurebot	"2"
06:12	rritoch	,((comp even? inc) 1)
06:12	clojurebot	true
06:12	Bronsa	rritoch: http://sprunge.us/FLZV?clj take a look at this
06:12	Bronsa	rritoch: you can see it's printing g before f, showing that the composition does happen right to left
06:13	Bronsa	rritoch: but the composition of those two function doesn't yield a function that can be invoked directly, rather invoking that function will return another function to be invoked
06:14	Bronsa	rritoch: inside that function f and g run in the "opposite" order
06:15	Bronsa	rritoch: the key to understanding this is to notice that it's not doing ((comp f g) val), but (((comp f g) h) val)
06:18	Bronsa	rritoch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mTbuzafcII&t=25m30s here's how Rich Hickey explained this
06:22	Bronsa	rritoch: if you still don't understand how this works, take my example an try to manually comp f and g and follow the execution flow
06:23	rritoch	I'm actually still trying to figure out how to load that youtube link, I'm using synergy so copy/paste between machines doesn't always go smoothly
06:25	rritoch	,((comp (filter odd?) (map inc)) (range 6))
06:25	clojurebot	#<core$filter$fn__4368$fn__4369 clojure.core$filter$fn__4368$fn__4369@b1567b>
06:25	Bronsa	rritoch: transducers are not partially applied functions
06:27	rritoch	,(((comp (filter odd?) (map inc)) (range 6)))
06:27	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.LazySeq cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn>
06:28	rritoch	,(take 3 ((comp (filter odd?) (map inc)) (range 6)))
06:28	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: clojure.core$filter$fn__4368$fn__4369>
06:28	hyPiRion	godd2: good to hear you found them useful :)
06:29	rritoch	What kind of voodoo is this?
06:30	rritoch	In my first test it says it returned a lazy sequence, so I try totake 3 from it and it says the result was a function
06:30	rritoch	Is there comprehensive documentation on this comp function?
06:31	Bronsa	rritoch: for the nth time, comp has nothing to do with this and transducers are not partially applied functions
06:31	Bronsa	rritoch: read this http://clojure.org/transducers
06:31	rritoch	,(type ((comp (filter odd?) (map inc)) (range 6)))
06:31	clojurebot	clojure.core$filter$fn__4368$fn__4369
06:34	rritoch	Bronsa: Well, thanks for your patience, as you can guess I've never used comp or transduce in any of my code but I really thought it was like a partial that combined functions together
06:35	Bronsa	rritoch: that's your mistake. (map f) is not (partial map f)
06:35	Bronsa	rritoch: if you're interested I suggest you read the page I just linked, transducers are really powerful
06:37	rritoch	I'm reading it now, and going to run over these examples for a bit, but right now it still looks like voodoo to me
06:39	luxbock	rritoch: I'd really recommend watching the entire talk from the youtube link Bronsa linked here
06:46	rritoch	,(type ((comp (filter odd?) (map inc)) (range 6)))
06:46	clojurebot	clojure.core$filter$fn__4368$fn__4369
06:46	rritoch	Hmm
06:47	rritoch	I don't see why that doesn't throw an exception either, I took a look at the source code for comp and it's just a function
06:47	rritoch	,(filter odd?)
06:47	clojurebot	#<core$filter$fn__4368 clojure.core$filter$fn__4368@99b936>
06:47	rritoch	Hmm
06:47	rritoch	What happened there?
06:47	rritoch	Locally I get an arity exception
06:48	Bronsa	rritoch: you're using clojure <=1.6.0
06:48	Bronsa	rritoch: the transducer arity was added in 1.7.0-alpha1
06:49	rritoch	Ok, I think that clears up my confusion a bit
06:52	rritoch	,((comp (partial str "A") (partial str "B") (partial str "C")) "=IN=")
06:52	clojurebot	"ABC=IN="
06:53	rritoch	So in this simple example, The innermost (first action) returns "C=IN=" and the string gets built backwards
06:54	Bronsa	yes
06:55	rritoch	Ok, so it is really these transducers that threw me, when I saw this example I was thinking that comp was a macro which was moving things around and creating a function out of the result.
06:56	Bronsa	no, comp is just a regular function
06:56	Bronsa	(comp f g) === (fn [& args] (f (apply g args)))
06:58	rritoch	,((filter odd?) (range 6))
06:58	clojurebot	#<core$filter$fn__4368$fn__4369 clojure.core$filter$fn__4368$fn__4369@fe1155>
07:02	rritoch	,((filter odd?) 1)
07:02	clojurebot	#<core$filter$fn__4368$fn__4369 clojure.core$filter$fn__4368$fn__4369@171dea8>
07:03	rritoch	,(((filter odd?) 1))
07:03	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Long cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn>
07:05	rritoch	,(transduce (filter odd?) 1)
07:05	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (2) passed to: core/transduce>
07:07	rritoch	,(transduce (filter odd?) + (range 5))
07:07	clojurebot	4
07:07	rritoch	,(transduce (filter odd?) + (range 99))
07:07	clojurebot	2401
07:08	rritoch	,(transduce (filter odd?) identity (range 99))
07:08	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (0) passed to: core/identity>
07:10	rritoch	,(transduce (filter odd?) (fn [&x] (last x)) (range 99))
07:10	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: x in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
07:11	rritoch	,(transduce (filter odd?) (fn [& x] (last x)) (range 99))
07:11	clojurebot	97
07:11	rritoch	,(transduce (filter odd?) (fn [& x] (last x)) (range 101))
07:11	clojurebot	99
07:11	rritoch	,(transduce (filter odd?) (fn [& x] (last x)) (range 100))
07:11	clojurebot	99
07:12	rritoch	,(transduce (filter odd?) (fn [& x] (last x)) (range 49))
07:12	clojurebot	47
07:12	rritoch	,(range 9)
07:12	clojurebot	(0 1 2 3 4 ...)
07:12	rritoch	,(last (range 9))
07:13	clojurebot	8
07:15	kzar	Has anyone made a chrome extension using clojurescript before? I'm trying to figure out how it would fit together
07:19	mi6x3m	hey clojure, any off-the-shelf function to zip data through ZipOutputStream?
07:26	rritoch	mi6x3m: I think doseq is your best option
07:30	rritoch	kzar: I've never used clojurescript before, but I have made chrome plugins, as far as I can tell you should just be able to drop the generated .js file from compiling the clojurescript into your plugin (folder) and it should just "work". I don't know how you call javascript from clojurescript but that is what you'll probably need to do to register listeners, etc.
07:32	kzar	rritoch: That's not my issue, the thing is you traditionally have separate Javascript files for chrome extensions. One for the popup page, one for the background "page", one for options or other pages. Clojurescript compiles down all the clojurescript files to one Javascript file normally. I think you can have them separate but then I think you have the Google closure dependencies etc in there once for each separate
07:32	kzar	page
07:32	mi6x3m	rritoch: I settled for that yeah, but what is a proper argument name for a stream?
07:33	kzar	rritoch: It's not a complete disaster, just wondered if anyone had figured out all those issues before or not
07:35	rritoch	kzar: The plugins I was working on were all in one source file which used ajax+eval for all additional functionality. Fundamentally that isn't really too much different than clojure bringing everything to a single source file.
07:36	kzar	rritoch: You didn't need separate functionality between the popup page and the background "page" for example?
07:37	rritoch	mi6x3m: I use "path" for my argument name when creating jars
07:38	mi6x3m	rritoch: I mean parameter name in a clojure function :) when passing a stream
07:38	mi6x3m	I just use dst now
07:41	rritoch	THe code I use is @ https://github.com/rritoch/clj-grid/blob/master/src/leiningen/grid/bundle.clj#L239-L249
07:43	rritoch	mi6x3m: I just loop over the paths that I want in the jar, and then dig into each path for all of the entries which get placed individually via a "write-entry" function which uses clojure.io/copy to add files to the jar
07:51	rritoch	,((comp clojure.string/trim (partial apply str)) (conj (range 6) " "))
07:51	clojurebot	"012345"
07:54	rritoch	,((comp clojure.string/trim (partial apply str) (conj \")) (conj (range 6) " "))
07:54	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Character cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn>
07:55	rritoch	,((comp clojure.string/trim (partial apply str) (partial (conj \"))) (conj (range 6) " "))
07:55	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Character cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn>
07:57	rritoch	,((comp clojure.string/trim (partial apply str) (fn [& x] (conj x \"))) (conj (range 6) " "))
07:57	clojurebot	"\"(\" \" 0 1 2 3 ...)"
08:03	rritoch	,((comp (fn [& x] (str \" (pr-str x) \")) clojure.string/trim (partial apply str) ) (conj (range 6) " "))
08:03	clojurebot	"\"(\"012345\")\""
08:03	elsen_	Hey guys, what's up?
08:03	BenceF	Hi, i'm having trouble with tools.namespace
08:04	BenceF	its page says it is deprecated (but doesn't name an alternative)
08:04	rritoch	,((comp (fn [x] (str \" x \")) clojure.string/trim (partial apply str) ) (conj (range 6) " "))
08:04	clojurebot	"\"012345\""
08:04	BenceF	maven says it has 0.2.7 but I can't seem to name it right
08:05	Bronsa	https://github.com/clojure/tools.namespace where does it say it's deprecated?
08:05	BenceF	https://clojure.github.io/tools.namespace/index.html
08:06	BenceF	"This namespace is DEPRECATED; most functions have been moved to other namespaces"
08:06	BenceF	I need .repl btw
08:06	BenceF	but don't know how to add it to my dependencies
08:07	Bronsa	BenceF: that's referring to the "clojure.tools.namespace" namespace only, the functions have been moved to "sub" namespaces
08:07	toxmeister	hey, anyone seen or experienced this too? https://github.com/ato/clojars-web/issues/270 - would be grateful for some interim workarounds...
08:08	BenceF	i tried these: [org.clojure.tools.namespace "0.2.7"] then clojure.tools.namespace then tools.namespace
08:08	Bronsa	BenceF: the docstring for each function in that namespaces tells you where to find the new version
08:08	BenceF	and try to do a lein deps and it says it can't find it in maven
08:08	Bronsa	BenceF: https://github.com/clojure/tools.namespace#releases-and-dependency-information
08:09	BenceF	ahh I need a slash!
08:09	BenceF	thank you Bronsa
08:10	BenceF	found it thank you :)
08:13	BenceF	oh but i need to require it as (require '[clojure.tools.namespace.repl :refer [refresh]])
08:13	BenceF	seems a bit inconsistent
08:14	rritoch	Where is volitile! documented? I see it being used in the "Transducers with reduction state" example, but I'm not familiar with volitile symbols.
08:16	Bronsa	rritoch: that's another new 1.7 function
08:16	rritoch	hmm, I feel like I'm living in the stone ages, I really need to upgrade
08:16	Bronsa	BenceF: why does it seem inconsistent to you?
08:17	Bronsa	rritoch: no, this is all new stuff, 1.7.0 isn't out yet
08:17	rritoch	Is there any "WHats new" documentation for 1.7?
08:17	Bronsa	rritoch: yeah in the changelog
08:17	rritoch	Aaah
08:17	Bronsa	rritoch: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/changes.md
08:18	BenceF	once you use a / then a .
08:18	Bronsa	BenceF: those are completely unrelated things
08:19	Bronsa	BenceF: one is a clojure namespace, the other is a maven dependency coordinate
08:19	Bronsa	BenceF: a lib could be called foo/bar and provide a baz.buz namespace, there's no correlation between those
08:20	BenceF	ah ok
08:23	elsen	What's the current way to work on a clojure backend and clojurescript frontend at the same time?
08:23	elsen	I'm trying to setup a clojure REPL to run my backend, and a clojurescript one connected to the browser
08:26	elsen	I setup austin to run a REPL in the browser, but it replaces the current REPL that run the clojure backend, am I missing something to work in both REPL at the same time?
08:29	rritoch	Is rich taking requests for the new version? I think clojure.core/in? and clojure.string/ucfirst would be useful addons. I have them isolated in my apps since they're so commonly needed.
08:29	rritoch	https://github.com/rritoch/clj-grid-kernel/blob/master/src/com/vnetpublishing/clj/grid/lib/grid/util.clj
08:38	ingsoc	in list comprehensions the keyword :when is used to apply a filter. I thought keywords where just symbolic identifiers ?
08:46	rritoch	ingsoc: They are, the macro applies the functionality to it.
08:47	ingsoc	rritoch: so what is the macro
08:48	rritoch	ingsoc: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/clojure-1.6.0/src/clj/clojure/core.clj#L4254-L4339
08:48	rritoch	Thats the macro for "for"
08:51	ingsoc	ok so a keyword is just being used by the macro to trigger the filtering logic as it doesn't make sense to use up another name that could otherwise be used as a variable ?
08:51	rritoch	,(macroexpand '(for [x '(9 10 11) :when (not= x 10)] x))
08:51	clojurebot	(let* [iter__4763__auto__ (clojure.core/fn iter__27 [s__28] (clojure.core/lazy-seq (clojure.core/loop [s__28 s__28] (clojure.core/when-let [s__28 (clojure.core/seq s__28)] (if (clojure.core/chunked-seq? s__28) (clojure.core/let [c__4761__auto__ (clojure.core/chunk-first s__28) size__4762__auto__ (clojure.core/int #) b__30 ...] (if (clojure.core/loop # #) (clojure.core/chunk-cons # #) (clojure.core...
08:52	rritoch	Hmm, it got cut, but in the full version you can see the not= in the resulting code
08:59	rritoch	ingsoc: Yes the keyword is used to trigger the filtering logic, I believe it's possible to change macro expansion based on the symbols passed, but it would probably be ambiguous to use the symbol 'when instead of the keyword :when
09:00	rritoch	,(let [when 5] when)
09:00	clojurebot	5
09:06	rritoch	,(defmacro foo [& x] `(println (str ~@(map name x))))
09:06	clojurebot	#'sandbox/foo
09:06	rritoch	,(foo bar)
09:06	clojurebot	bar\n
09:10	rritoch	,(defmacro foo [x] (println ~(if (= x (symbol "foo")) "FOO!" "NOT FOO!"))
09:10	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
09:10	rritoch	,(defmacro foo [x] (println ~(if (= x (symbol "foo")) "FOO!" "NOT FOO!")))
09:10	clojurebot	#'sandbox/foo
09:10	rritoch	,(foo foo)
09:10	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.IllegalStateException: Attempting to call unbound fn: #'clojure.core/unquote, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_FILE:0:0)>
09:11	rritoch	,(defmacro foo [x] ~(println ~(if (= x (symbol "foo")) "FOO!" "NOT FOO!"))
09:11	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
09:11	rritoch	,(defmacro foo [x] ~(println ~(if (= x (symbol "foo")) "FOO!" "NOT FOO!")))
09:11	clojurebot	#'sandbox/foo
09:11	rritoch	,(foo bar)
09:11	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.IllegalStateException: Attempting to call unbound fn: #'clojure.core/unquote, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_FILE:0:0)>
09:12	rritoch	,(defmacro foo [x] `(println ~(if (= x (symbol "foo")) "FOO!" "NOT FOO!")))
09:12	clojurebot	#'sandbox/foo
09:12	rritoch	,(foo bar)
09:12	clojurebot	NOT FOO!\n
09:12	rritoch	,(foo foo)
09:12	clojurebot	FOO!\n
09:12	rritoch	There we go :)
09:40	rdsr	has anyone tried setting jvm-opts when using CCW with eclipse?
09:40	rdsr	I can't get this to work..
09:43	rdsr	I've searched online and found a few posts around it. Mostly the solution seems to be to modify the launch configuration of the clojure application ran before… But the under the clojure tree in the "run-as" menu I don't see any entry .
10:01	justin_smith	rdsr: does counterclockwise run clojure in a separate vm?
10:02	rdsr	um I'm not sure
10:04	rdsr	I'm checking that right now
10:09	rdsr	yes, so I'checked that it is starting two jvm..
10:10	rdsr	I think one is the nrepl server?
10:12	justin_smith	is it using lein to launch the clojure process?
10:15	rdsr	I've searched a little… I think it does uses lein partially.. in that is uses the dependencies I've added in the project.clj.. but it skips the jvm-opts I've specified there
10:15	justin_smith	are you using ^:replace as a metadata for the jvm-opts?
10:16	rdsr	no
10:16	rdsr	here's my jvm-opts from lein…
10:16	justin_smith	it merges options by default, in order to get certain configurations the ^:replace metadata is needed
10:16	rdsr	jvm-opts ["-Dsun.security.krb5.debug=true -Djava.security.auth.login.config=conf/user.conf -Djavax.security.auth.useSubjectCredsOnly=false"]
10:17	justin_smith	what if you start counterclockwise with those options?
10:17	rdsr	u mena I add the metadata in my project.clj?
10:17	rdsr	*mean
10:18	rdsr	somethign like…. :jvm-opts ^:replace […] ?
10:18	justin_smith	https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/master/sample.project.clj#L76 it's described for the :repositories key here, but yeah
10:18	justin_smith	because sometimes opts dont' work because they are merged with the defaults
10:18	justin_smith	I don't know if that is the case with your setup though
10:18	rdsr	let me try this ou
10:18	rdsr	*out
10:20	justin_smith	rdsr: this thread says you want to look at "Run Configurations" https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/clojuredev-users/_NkhrgJOaAw
10:21	justin_smith	perhaps counterclockwise just can't / won't use your jvm opts from lein?
10:21	justin_smith	rdsr: another option would be starting "lein repl" yourself and telling counterclockwise to connect to its port
10:21	justin_smith	if that is an option
10:24	rdsr	cool.. I'll try that too
10:24	rdsr	thks
10:25	justin_smith	rdsr: with emacs, I prefer to launch my repl from the terminal and connect via the port, rather than launching automatically
10:25	justin_smith	rdsr: it eliminates a point of failure when things get weird :)
10:25	rdsr	oh… well.. it is working somehow with replace … but I'm not sure how
10:26	justin_smith	oh nice!
10:26	justin_smith	that was a long shot, but glad it works
10:26	rdsr	but the jvm-opts are not here :/
10:26	rdsr	:jvm-opts concat "[\"-Xdebug\" \"-Xrunjdwp:transport=dt_socket,server=y,suspend=n\"]"
10:26	justin_smith	some jvm opts are mutually incompatible, so you need ^:replace before some configurations work
10:27	rdsr	those jvm-opts (the one I pinged) are from the command-line ccw used to startup a repl
10:27	justin_smith	odd
10:28	justin_smith	yeah, seems like counterclockwise is not respecting your full project.clj config - the thread I linked to indicates that at some point that was considered a feature for the future?
10:29	rdsr	ohk
10:38	csd_````	How would would I cast a str "(foo bar)" as a list, i.e. as if I were using (read) and then wanted to use first/second on it?
10:39	gfredericks	csd_: read-string
10:40	csd_	thanks
10:48	gfredericks	$findfn "[:a :b]" [:a :b]
10:49	csd_	one other question, how would I map `quote` across a list?
10:49	lazybot	[clojure.core/load-string clojure.core/read-string]
10:49	gfredericks	csd_: you wouldn't, that doesn't make sense; can you give an example use for that?
10:49	justin_smith	csd_: read-string does not eval
10:50	gfredericks	,'(a b c)
10:50	justin_smith	if that is your concern
10:50	clojurebot	(a b c)
10:50	justin_smith	&(read-string "[a b c]")
10:50	lazybot	⇒ [a b c]
10:50	csd_	id like to read in "foo bar" and then eval (foo 'bar)
10:51	justin_smith	csd_: you need to write some string transformation code then
10:51	csd_	CL lets you map quote, i'm surprised clojure doesn't
10:51	justin_smith	csd_: read-string works by sexps
10:51	justin_smith	,(read-string "foo bar")
10:51	clojurebot	foo
10:52	justin_smith	you need read, and a pushbackreader, to get all the sexps
10:52	justin_smith	or make sure it is all in one sexp
10:52	justin_smith	either way
10:52	gfredericks	,(str "(\n" "foo bar" "\n)")
10:52	clojurebot	"(\nfoo bar\n)"
10:52	annelies	clojurebot I love you
10:53	Bronsa	it's a shared feeling
10:53	csd_	,(read-string (str $ "foo bar" $ ))
10:53	clojurebot	(foo bar)
10:53	justin_smith	gfredericks: yeah, like I said, string transformation. Btw lazybot is cool too ##(println "hi")
10:53	lazybot	⇒ hi nil
10:53	Bronsa	lazybot: isn't bad either
10:53	annelies	Bronsa: I don't think so :'(
10:53	justin_smith	and I got lazybot updated!
10:53	Bronsa	&clojre-version
10:53	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: clojre-version in this context
10:53	justin_smith	&clojure-version
10:53	lazybot	⇒ {:major 1, :minor 7, :incremental 0, :qualifier "alpha1"}
10:53	Bronsa	&clojure-version
10:53	lazybot	⇒ {:major 1, :minor 7, :incremental 0, :qualifier "alpha1"}
10:53	Bronsa	w00t
10:53	justin_smith	hehe
10:53	Bronsa	(inc justin_smith)
10:53	lazybot	⇒ 125
10:55	justin_smith	$karma procedural generation
10:55	lazybot	procedural generation has karma 1.
10:55	justin_smith	that works now :)
10:56	csd_	So if I have (foo bar) as output by read-string, what's the easiest way to do the transform to map ' ? Am I best served by doing it before applying read-string?
10:56	justin_smith	csd_: why would you need to map ' on it?
10:57	Bronsa	csd_: ##(map #(list 'quote %) '(a b))
10:57	lazybot	⇒ ((quote a) (quote b))
10:57	csd_	justin_smith: I'm trying to translate some of the code in Land of Lisp from CL to clj
10:57	csd_	The code is sort of goofy, basically evals directly what the user types in
10:58	justin_smith	an amusing failed attempt ##(map #(quote %) '(a b c))
10:58	lazybot	⇒ (p1__17767# p1__17767# p1__17767#)
10:58	csd_	so if I type in "foo bar" it evaluates it as (foo 'bar)
10:58	Bronsa	justin_smith: wait what
10:58	justin_smith	csd_: clojure has nothing that prints as 'bar
10:58	Bronsa	ah.
10:58	justin_smith	Bronsa: yeah, tricky :)
10:58	csd_	justin_smith: what do you mean?
10:58	justin_smith	nothing prints naturally as 'bar
10:58	justin_smith	,'bar
10:58	clojurebot	bar
10:59	csd_	defun game-read ()
10:59	csd_	(let ((cmd (read-from-string
10:59	csd_	(concatenate 'string "(" (read-line) ")"))))
10:59	csd_	(flet ((quote-it (x)
10:59	justin_smith	'bar is a read syntax, but not part of any printing syntax
10:59	csd_	(list 'quote x)))
10:59	csd_	(cons (car cmd) (mapcar #'quote-it (cdr cmd))))))
10:59	csd_	that's the code in CL
10:59	Bronsa	csd_: please use a nopaste
10:59	csd_	sorry
10:59	justin_smith	csd_: I am sure common lisp does this, clojure does not
11:00	justin_smith	you can fake it if you like, or alter print-method for symbol I guess?
11:00	justin_smith	but nothing in clojure prints with a leading ' naturally
11:01	csd_	interesting, ok
11:01	justin_smith	csd_: would it butcher the whole thing to use keywords instead?
11:02	justin_smith	,:bar
11:02	clojurebot	:bar
11:03	csd_	justin_smith: i don't think it would butcher it, although it'd definitely require rewriting some of the earlier code
11:04	justin_smith	it might be a more natural fit, since they have a proper print/read conversion
11:04	justin_smith	or, I mean, print/read/eval
11:12	csd_	justin_smith: could it be done with a recursive macro? Something like `('~foo (macro-name (rest input)))
11:18	TimMc	lazybot: #1
11:18	justin_smith	csd_: that still would not print with a '
11:19	csd_	i just need to eval it so that all symbols but the first are treated as if quoted, not to print to screen with '
11:19	justin_smith	oh, than don't eval
11:19	justin_smith	just read
11:19	Bronsa	csd_: what you need is (some-function "identity foo") ;-> foo?
11:20	technomancy	(apply (resolve (first x)) (rest x))
11:20	Bronsa	^
11:20	Bronsa	well, after read-string'ing obviously
11:21	technomancy	you don't even need eval, assuming the first refers to a var
11:24	csd_	technomancy: perfect!
11:27	csd_	Does the CL code I pasted overcomplicate the CL solution, or is there no better way for them to do the above?
11:58	thesaskwatch	Hello, how to start with ClojureScript if I have some Clojure knowledge, but 0 about CS?
12:02	Glenjamin	thesaskwatch: do you have something in mind to build?
12:03	thesaskwatch	Glenjamin: yes, github milestone / issues visualization
12:04	Glenjamin	hows your JS?
12:04	Glenjamin	and have you done any previous work with React?
12:04	thesaskwatch	Glenjamin: good js, I understand how react works
12:04	Glenjamin	cool, so i'd say try figwheel with reagent
12:04	thesaskwatch	Glenjamin: thanks
12:06	Glenjamin	if you want a proper repl, try weasel or austin, but they're a little fiddly to link to figwheel
12:08	Glenjamin	on the subject of clojurescript, does anyone know if there's an open bug for giving a better message than "cannot call method 'call' of undefined" when the fn being applies is missing? I'm searching jira atm but can't see anythin
12:08	afhammad	I have record A implemented in ns x.a, and record B in ns x.b. How can I use A in an instance of B and vice versa?
12:10	Glenjamin	afhammad: if you need the underlying Record type, you need to use :import in the (ns) form with the JVM name
12:10	Glenjamin	but if you just want to create one, you can import the factory function ->MyRecord
12:11	Glenjamin	or did you mean how to resolve the circular dependency?
12:11	afhammad	yes, circular dep. does importing the factory func get around it?
12:11	thesaskwatch	Glenjamin: are there any basic concepts I should start with? I see that at least cljbuild is one
12:11	Glenjamin	thesaskwatch: yeah, cljsbuild is probably the main one, but the defaults figwheel generates are reasonable
12:12	Glenjamin	apart from that it's a lot like clojure in terms of the core fns
12:12	thesaskwatch	Glenjamin: ok, great
12:12	Glenjamin	and there's some fancy stuff like #js and js* but you should be able to avoid them until you need them
12:15	afhammad	Glenjamin: yes, circular dep. does importing the factory func get around it?
12:15	Glenjamin	http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3084205/resolving-clojure-circular-dependencies seems sensible
12:16	Glenjamin	tl;dr is have a namespace with the types in
12:19	afhammad	Glenjamin: yeh read that, saying a refactor is required is fine, but no one gives an example of what that might look like. I am using records to represent db models, dumping them all into one ns isnt really a great option
12:20	Glenjamin	why do you say that?
12:20	Glenjamin	you could also just combine the ones which are circular
12:21	Glenjamin	if they're coupled to each other, you're probably not gaining much from separating
12:24	afhammad	how are models represented in clojure, where you are trying to encapsulate a certain domain into a ns? For example a "Project" and a "User" are totally diffrerent things, why would I want to combine them
12:25	rweir	why would you combine them? put them in different namespaces
12:26	Glenjamin	afhammad: perhaps the question then becomes, why is there a circular dependency between them if they are totally different things?
12:29	afhammad	Glenjamin: because things need to talk to each other in order for a system to work, otherwise whats the point. A better example, I have a Project and a Feature, where a Project might want to grab features that it is associated with without rewriting the db call, while a feature wants to grab a project is bleongs to.
12:29	Glenjamin	afhammad: sorry, i'm not trying to be snarky, just trying to get at the core of why it's currently structured this way
12:30	Glenjamin	there's a few valid constructions for that, and circular dependencies is one of them - but not supported in Clojure
12:31	Glenjamin	you could have the records be in a namespace that contains only records, while functions live elsewhere
12:31	Glenjamin	you could say "projects and features are related, so they live in the same ns"
12:32	Glenjamin	you could have a namespace that contains cross-model fns, while encapsulated things stay in the same ns as the records themselves
12:32	Glenjamin	if you treat it as a model/mapper separation, i think that would work also
12:34	afhammad	Glenjamin: hmm ok thanks, i'll think about those some more.
12:45	justin_smith	afhammad: one option is to define (a) protocol(s) that both A and B know how to access, and write all their code that touches one another in terms of (those\|that) protocol(s)
12:47	justin_smith	so User and Project could be protocols (each with their own ns) and then your records would implement User and access a Project and visa versa
12:47	justin_smith	afhammad: this is quite clean in practice, and as a bonus allows easy outside extension
12:48	justin_smith	afhammad: everywhere where I say protocol above, you could instead use a group of multimethods if you prefer the flexibility of doing it that way, but your design as expressed so far sounds more protocol friendly
12:49	afhammad	justin_smith: they both implement ModelBase protocol which contains the fns that I need right now. Lets say in fn get-one of Project I need to call get-all of Feature. what would that look like?
12:49	justin_smith	afhammad: another thing to consider, backing up Glenjamin's reasoning, is that in clojure we decouple data from code, and that is actually a Good Thing™
12:49	justin_smith	afhammad: are get-one and get-all part of the ModelBase protocol?
12:50	afhammad	justin_smith: yes
12:50	Glenjamin	this sounds quite active-record-like
12:50	justin_smith	then call the protocol method
12:50	justin_smith	you don't need to know anything about the concrete implementation, that's the point of protocols
12:50	justin_smith	a Project shouldn't have to know the concrete type of a Feature, just that it implements some protocol Project cares about
12:51	afhammad	what does that call look like? just so I follow along
12:51	justin_smith	call the protocol method on the object
12:52	justin_smith	it works just like a function in clojure (proto-ns/proto-method thing)
12:52	justin_smith	if you give me concrete names of things I can make that example more specific
12:53	justin_smith	afhammad: mind you the protocol function is namespaced to where the protocol is defined, not to where the implementation is defined
12:53	Glenjamin	presumably the problem is you want to do (defn features [project] (features/get-all :project-id (:id project))
12:53	afhammad	so for example, Project's get-one needs to call Feature's get-all
12:53	justin_smith	is features a protocol namespace?
12:53	Glenjamin	and also (ns features) (defn project [feature] (project/get-one :id (:project-id feature)))
12:53	justin_smith	if not you are doing it wrong
12:54	justin_smith	Glenjamin: n/m sorry, I got confused about who was pasting what
12:54	justin_smith	afhammad: get all and get-one should not belong to Project or Feature, they should belong to some protocol
12:55	justin_smith	if you are using protocols, use protocol methods and treat the class of the argument as irrelevant
12:55	afhammad	justin_smith: well they do, but they are implemented in record Project in (ns x.project) and record Feature in (ns x.feature)
12:55	justin_smith	afhammad: place of implementation does not matter!
12:56	justin_smith	you call the protocol method based on the namespace where the protocol is defined
12:56	justin_smith	that's the point of protocols
12:56	justin_smith	the calling code should only know the protocol, and know nothing about the objects that implement them
12:57	afhammad	justin_smith how does it know which implementation to use?
12:57	justin_smith	afhammad: it doesn't
12:57	Glenjamin	justin_smith: that would still require a protocol per entity, in this scheme, would it not?
12:57	justin_smith	the protocol knows
12:57	afhammad	how does the protocol know?
12:57	justin_smith	afhammad: extend / defrecord tell the protocol who extends it
12:57	justin_smith	Glenjamin: he wants them to both be based on the same protocol, or so he said
12:58	Glenjamin	right, but the problem is they want to both reference each other
12:58	justin_smith	afhammad: you call the protocol, the protocol calls the method that that object registered with that protocol
12:58	Glenjamin	feature would load it's parent project, and projects would load their child features
12:58	Glenjamin	i don't see how a single protocol helps there
12:58	justin_smith	Glenjamin: they shouldn't reference each other, only instances of the protocols one another implement
12:58	justin_smith	Glenjamin: this is how nearly the entirety of clojure.core is done, it works
12:59	justin_smith	Glenjamin: it can be N protocols
12:59	Glenjamin	right, the protocols (types) live separately from the implementation
12:59	afhammad	justin_smith: when you call the protocol, are you supposed to pass in an instance of the record? are there any examples of this
12:59	justin_smith	the point is no circularity is needed if both objects call protocol methods, and both can know all protocols involved
12:59	justin_smith	afhammad: exactly, the first argument to a protocol method is the thing extending it
13:00	justin_smith	afhammad: all the container knows is "this is an instance of Foo" and it call some protocol method of Foo on it
13:00	justin_smith	Foo being a protocol of course
13:00	afhammad	so basically I need to pass an instance of the other record in the function i'm calling, in order to pass it to the protocol call?
13:01	Glenjamin	afhammad: can you provide a sample of what you'd like code that uses these models to look like?
13:01	justin_smith	Glenjamin: afhammad: to be more concrete - the protocols, however many exist, clearly don't need to know about one another. By coding in terms of these isolated protocols (implementing them, calling their methods) you get arbitrary interoperation with no circularity
13:02	justin_smith	afhammad: right, and if something needs to know about both User and Project, then it must be a higher order thing that works with both
13:02	Glenjamin	justin_smith: right, but you still need to extract a bunch of protocols into a separate namespace from the implementations, and i don't think that abstraction is worth it over a similarly structured non-protocol approach in this case
13:02	justin_smith	and it can put them together as it likes
13:02	Glenjamin	assuming i'm understanding the problem statement properly
13:02	justin_smith	Glenjamin: fair point, that is often the case
13:03	justin_smith	Glenjamin: I am trying to present how one properly uses a technique afhammad already started using (definign and implementing protocols)
13:03	afhammad	justin_smith: I THINK that solves the issue, was hoping it didnt come to that, but i guess thats it
13:03	Glenjamin	on the surface, it sounds like you're trying to build quite and OO-style active-record-style api, which I don't think works all that well in Clojure
13:03	justin_smith	afhammad: I don't know your code, but that almost always works
13:03	justin_smith	Glenjamin: well, activerecord was one of his premises, arguing about that is another can of worms altogether :)
13:04	Glenjamin	heh, very true
13:04	justin_smith	but yes, proper clojure design is often about decoupling data and functions
13:04	justin_smith	in a way that is very unlike OO
13:04	Glenjamin	i think it's possible that the complexity here comes from trying to build an api that isn't very clojurey
13:05	justin_smith	Glenjamin: yeah - but clojure CAN do that stuff, if you use the tools as intended
13:05	afhammad	justin_smith: Glenjamin: perhaps, not because i want to, but because i have yet to see a decent clojure approach to it, do you know of any?
13:05	justin_smith	afhammad: use vanilla datastructures. Write functions that work on said vanilla datastructures. Rely on immutability and purity of functions instead of data hiding and encapsulation.
13:06	Glenjamin	afhammad: personally i would keep separate the definitions of my models & pure functions that deal with them, form the code which marshalls them to and from the database
13:07	Glenjamin	and then you'd end up with something like (app.feature-mapper/get-all project) and (app.project-mapper/get-one feature)
13:08	afhammad	justin_smith: Glenjamin: Thanks for the input guys, will need to rethink the structure with the points uv raised
13:10	justin_smith	afhammad: I find that I use protocols etc. for things that really benefit from OO. Unlike some clojure folks I think there are some problem domains where that really is the case. But Clojure style OO is about interfaces and message passing, not inheritance and encapsulation.
13:10	justin_smith	well that binary may be overstated, but that's where the emphases / deemphases are
13:12	afhammad	justin_smith: The only reason i went down the protocol/record path is because I thought i would solve my circular dependency issue
13:13	justin_smith	afhammad: the alternate solution is to use generic data structures (things like maps, vectors, lazy-seqs, sets, + keywords as markers)
13:13	justin_smith	you can easily write code that utilizes these without circular dependencies
13:14	afhammad	justin_smith: the records arent really holding any data, they just have a bunch of fuctions
13:14	afhammad	justin_smith: the functions return what ever data they get to you, not persisted to the record
13:14	justin_smith	afhammad: aha, implicit in that approach is that the data comes first, and the functions are just ways to gather / massage the data
13:15	justin_smith	so you would have functions that can grab each data source, and functions which perform the transformations you need
13:15	justin_smith	the approach is a tradeoff compared to OO, but it really does have powerful aspects
13:24	engblom	Is it possible to "configure" clojure to automatically switch from integer to biginteger instead of throwing an exception.
13:24	engblom	=
13:25	engblom	s/./?/
13:25	arrdem	You can switch to using +', -' and soforth...
13:26	arrdem	the "normal" core math functions will never auto-promote
13:26	arrdem	$grim clojure.core/+'
13:26	lazybot	http://grimoire.arrdem.com/1.6.0/clojure.core/+'
13:27	arrdem	but there isn't some configuration dynamic var you can bind to alter the behavior of + if that's what you're looking for.
13:29	engblom	arrdem: +' -' etc are what I am looking for
13:42	razum2um	can delete/yank a version from clojars?
13:43	AeroNotix	razum2um: nope
13:43	AeroNotix	Not without someone at Clojars doing it for you
13:43	arrdem	in general no, however technomancy has been prevailed upon in the past when there was a good reason to do so
13:43	justin_smith	razum2um: you can ask one of the folks who run clojars nicely, if there is a security or stability issue
13:43	justin_smith	razum2um: the people who can do that tend to hang out here, and also #leiningen
13:44	razum2um	but is this intentionally or just nobody pushed a PR?
13:44	AeroNotix	intentionally
13:44	justin_smith	intentionally
13:44	razum2um	wtf?
13:44	AeroNotix	razum2um: think about it
13:44	AeroNotix	If someone pushed a dependency, then people depended on it, then someone deleted it. What happens then?
13:45	AeroNotix	A good dependency management system needs immutable dependencies
13:45	AeroNotix	End of story as far as I am concerned.
13:46	justin_smith	AeroNotix: I make exceptions for greivous security concerns, where it's better that your app crash rather than run said code
13:46	razum2um	AeroNotix: not exaclty. a good dependency tool can let specify dependencies like bundler ~> 1.0 this means 1.x but not 2.0, and it will just fetch latest version of 1.x branch
13:46	justin_smith	razum2um: that really sucks in practice
13:46	razum2um	AeroNotix: this way yanking is nothing special
13:46	justin_smith	razum2um: you can do that with mvn, it just breaks all sorts of things
13:47	AeroNotix	razum2um: dependency ranges are not incongruent with immutable dependencies
13:47	justin_smith	dependency ranges suck though
13:47	Glenjamin	being able to yank a dependency seems reasonable
13:47	Glenjamin	being able to change one is terrible
13:47	justin_smith	agreed
13:47	Glenjamin	the assumption is that people wouldn't yank without a good reason
13:48	AeroNotix	Glenjamin: which is why the option goes through humans, I think it's a reasonable way to do it
13:48	AeroNotix	like justin_smith said, security threats are a good reason to yank a version
13:49	arrdem	the only things I remember technomancy or anyone else removing from clojars were internal dependencies that shoudln't have been deployed
13:51	razum2um	and what about some sad hotfixed versions, which are pushed and then realized some bug, fix it and push another one again, is this a good practice to leave known buggy version out there?
13:52	AeroNotix	razum2um: push a new version and live with your mistake
13:52	AeroNotix	you shouldn't be pushing new things willy-nilly
13:52	andyf	razum2um: Which versions don't have bugs?
13:53	razum2um	AeroNotix: ok then )
13:53	Glenjamin	it'd be nice to be able to mark versions as "don't use this because X"
13:54	Glenjamin	while still leaving them public
13:54	Glenjamin	but i've never used a package registry that did that
13:55	andyf	Glenjamin: Kind of like a signed addendum to a released version of "This has bugs with severity >= n" ?
13:55	andyf	One that a dependency manager tool like Leiningen would be able to inform you of with a certain command?
13:55	Glenjamin	yeah, that'd be neat
13:58	andyf	Maybe that would be a Clojars enhancement that Nelson Morris could find a way to get paid for.
13:58	justin_smith	andyf: Glenjamin: doesn't lein ancient help with this
13:58	andyf	I'll send him a message in case it helps
13:59	justin_smith	it would be cool if lein ancient said 1.x has a newer version, also you could upgrade to 3.x
13:59	andyf	justin_smith: It tells you whether there are newer versions, not how severe any known bugs are
13:59	justin_smith	andyf: right
13:59	Glenjamin	justin_smith: it does that, but doesn't distinguish between "is fundamentally broken" vs "has new stuff"
13:59	arrdem	andyf: random tooling idea I've been kicking around
13:59	justin_smith	yeah - a bug/security metadata feature for versions would be awesome
14:00	arrdem	andyf: take the set of var/fns and their arities, spit it to a file, compare between "releases" to confirm at least nominal SemVer adherence
14:01	andyf	arrdem: I'll send that idea to Nelson, too, giving you credit, if you don't mind.
14:01	arrdem	andyf: go for it. I think it'd be nice to see.
14:01	Glenjamin	xeqi: ping?
14:01	andyf	Not sure if it will go anywhere, but I know he has been looking for ways to get paid for Clojars work that adds value.
14:02	xeqi	Glenjamin: surprise pong
14:02	Glenjamin	oh neat, lazybot counts
14:02	Glenjamin	we were discussing some potential money-worthy clojars features just up
14:05	xeqi	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjYAnBhF2JU has some neat ideas in this general area as well
14:09	andyf	xeqi: Cool. I sent you an email with a couple of ideas just discussed in the last few minutes here, in case they are useful. I have no idea what paying customers are interested in, though.
15:07	martinklepsch	whats the syntax in enlive to do whats in css slectors "#a, #b" ? [:#a :#b] means it looks for #b in #a
15:09	justin_smith	martinklepsch: intuitively I would expect #{:#a :#b}
15:09	justin_smith	since that is unordered
15:15	borkdude	what's the recommended way to embed a video in an octopress blogpost?
15:30	annelies	martinklepsch: from the documentation:
15:30	csd_	Why is it that sometimes my nREPL session becomes borked up and I can't (read-line) anymore without opening a new REPL?
15:30	annelies	> At the top level you can have a big "or" between selectors by wrapping several selectors in a set. #{[:td :em] [:th :em]} is going to match any em insides either a th or a td. This is equivalent to [#{:td :th} :em].
15:31	justin_smith	annelies: cool, I guessed right
15:31	annelies	Or rather
15:31	annelies	> Similarly, sets group predicates in an union.
15:31	justin_smith	annelies: also, regarding that markov thing you shared the other day, did you hear about the generative text competition going on?
15:32	annelies	No!
15:32	justin_smith	https://github.com/dariusk/NaNoGenMo-2014
15:32	justin_smith	there is some stiff competition already
15:33	justin_smith	https://github.com/lizadaly/nanogenmo2014 this thing is amazing, even if it weren't algorithmically generated
15:33	annelies	I don't like competitions. :p
15:33	justin_smith	hehe
15:34	justin_smith	anyway, that lizadaly project is like, wow
15:34	martinklepsch	annelies: what documentation did you find this in?
15:34	annelies	enlive readme
15:34	martinklepsch	oh
15:34	martinklepsch	I was thinking this was most extensive about selectors: http://cgrand.github.io/enlive/syntax.html#selector-step
15:34	annelies	> #{selector-step*} ; union
15:34	annelies	That page also mentions it!
15:35	martinklepsch	I misunderstood that then. Was expecting something different with union. anyways thanks to both of you :)
15:38	justin_smith	annelies: I go to liza daly's web site, and see why her contribution is so good: http://lizadaly.com/ she's in the digital publishing business
15:40	csd_	,(do (print-str "aaa") (Thread/sleep 5000) (print-str "bbb"))
15:40	clojurebot	"bbb"
15:40	csd_	Someone care to explain this?
15:40	justin_smith	csd_: print-str does not do what you think it does
15:41	csd_	It just returns as string?
15:41	justin_smith	,(do (println (print-str "aaa")) (Thread/sleep 5000) (print-str "bbb"))
15:41	clojurebot	aaa\n"bbb"
15:41	justin_smith	right
15:41	justin_smith	,(do (prn (print-str "aaa")) (Thread/sleep 5000) (print-str "bbb")) ; prn, so we see the data more clearly
15:41	clojurebot	"aaa"\n"bbb"
15:41	AeroNotix	anything for libnotify ?
15:41	csd_	justin_smith: playing around in the REPL, i've experienced a few times where i'll read in, printing will fail, and then when i call the same command again,w hat should have been printed the first time is then printed.
15:42	csd_	what exactly are the mechanics behind that?
15:42	csd_	i'm guessing its a buffer that doesn't get released the first time around
15:42	justin_smith	csd_: print or println?
15:42	justin_smith	csd_: the default in the jvm is to buffer until newlines
15:42	csd_	using print-str only
15:42	justin_smith	print-str is not a printing function
15:43	justin_smith	(doc print-str)
15:43	csd_	i've never used it until now, but it seemed to be working, until it wasnt
15:43	clojurebot	"([& xs]); print to a string, returning it"
15:43	justin_smith	it is a string function
15:43	justin_smith	your stuff was only accidentally working
15:44	csd_	is there a corollary to print/println that flushes the read buffer?
15:51	annelies	csd_: not in clojure.core
15:51	justin_smith	println flushes
15:51	justin_smith	because newlines flush
15:51	justin_smith	and there is also the flush function
15:51	justin_smith	,(doc flush)
15:51	clojurebot	"([]); Flushes the output stream that is the current value of out"
15:51	annelies	it flushes the output buffer, not the input buffer, right?
15:51	justin_smith	annelies: oh right, my bad
15:51	annelies	also depends on flush-on-newline
15:51	justin_smith	I misread
16:38	technomancy	I saw discussions above about clojars deletions... a compromise that we're open to is allowing deletions for packages that have no downloads.
16:38	technomancy	but no one has submitted a patch for this yet.
16:38	technomancy	also allowing "do not use this" advisories is something we'd consider a patch for
16:45	thesaskwatch	Hi, I'm trying to use figwheel and I'm getting a Caused by: java.lang.RuntimeException: No such var: clojure.core.cache/through error. Anyone has an idea what's wrong?
16:46	thesaskwatch	that's my project.clj https://gist.github.com/mateusz-fiolka/d8f45b656c449861724b
16:46	Jefffrey	Morning
16:46	arrdem	thesaskwatch: not having org.clojure/core.cache in your deps?
16:47	thesaskwatch	arrdem: the tutorial doesn't say it's needed. Example pom in figwheel repo doesn't have it.
16:47	annelies	hi Jefffrey
16:47	arrdem	Raynes: is there a lazybot plugin for searching up the latest clojars version of something?
16:47	Raynes	$search useful
16:47	thesaskwatch	arrdem: https://github.com/bhauman/lein-figwheel/blob/master/example/project.clj
16:47	Raynes	I'm sure there is somewhere.
16:47	Raynes	Somewhere in there.
16:48	arrdem	thesaskwatch: it's a transitive dep.
16:48	Raynes	$latest useful
16:48	lazybot	[useful] -- https://clojars.org/useful
16:48	thesaskwatch	arrdem: then shouldn't it just be dependency of figwheel?
16:48	Raynes	hm
16:48	technomancy	thesaskwatch: there's a bug in clojure's AOT compiler that causes problems like that some times with plugins
16:48	clojurebot	Huh?
16:48	Raynes	Oh
16:49	Raynes	arrdem: There's a function that does screen scraping.
16:49	thesaskwatch	technomancy: ok, thanks
16:49	Raynes	arrdem: But it's broken due to the design changes a while back.
16:49	Raynes	arrdem: fix plz
16:49	Bronsa	thesaskwatch: I believe some of your deps requires a version of core.cache, and another pulls in an older version
16:49	arrdem	Raynes: :/
16:49	Jefffrey	Hi annelies
16:49	Raynes	arrdem: It's the latest command in clojure.clj
16:49	thesaskwatch	Bronsa: any way to do something like maven dependency:tree with lein?
16:49	Raynes	lein deps :tree
16:50	arrdem	Raynes: yeah I'll take a look later
16:50	technomancy	thesaskwatch: sounds like this problem is related https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/issues/1563
16:52	thesaskwatch	looks like core.async needs it
16:52	thesaskwatch	I'll add it explicitly
16:56	thesaskwatch	technomancy: so what's the workaround? specifying latest core.cache in dependencies doesn't help
16:57	technomancy	thesaskwatch: it's a bug in the clojure compiler. you can't work around it in a plugin.
16:57	technomancy	I guess the workaround is to not use a plugin.
16:58	Bronsa	technomancy: how is that a bug in the clojure compiler?
16:58	thesaskwatch	technomancy: I'm confused. This is my first approach to clojurescirpt. I thought that figwheel is an often used plugin. Does it mean it's broken?
16:59	technomancy	thesaskwatch: dunno, I've never heard of figwheel before
16:59	technomancy	lots of the clojurescript tooling is broken though from what I can tell just observing on irc
16:59	technomancy	Bronsa: hrm. I may be getting this confused with an earlier bug.
16:59	thesaskwatch	technomancy: ok, thank you
17:00	arrdem	Raynes: wait why are you doing screen scraping?
17:00	technomancy	Bronsa: I know there are issues with mixing AOT and non-AOT, which is why I try to AOT as late as possible.
17:00	technomancy	plugins make this difficult.
17:00	Raynes	arrdem: uh, because it was the only trivial way to do it at the time?
17:00	arrdem	's legit
17:03	Bronsa	thesaskwatch: you might have more luck asking in the #clojurescript channel when there's more activity btw
17:03	thesaskwatch	Bronsa: yes I just joined it :)
17:09	justin_smith	anyone recall how to get a binary data source from clj-http?
17:10	justin_smith	n/m, found it
17:16	arrdem	at macro invocation time, ns will be the expansion context namespace right?
17:17	Bronsa	yes
17:40	cristian	Hi guys. Is there any function that allows me to convert a clojure map to a Java bean? There's a function called `bean` that converts from Java bean to clojure map... I'm looking for the opposite.
17:43	justin_smith	cristian: maybe this is what you want? https://github.com/clojure/java.data/blob/master/src/main/clojure/clojure/java/data.clj#L93
17:45	justin_smith	cristian: actually, maybe this http://clojure.github.io/java.jmx/#clojure.java.jmx/create-bean
17:45	justin_smith	I guess you need to put it in an atom first?
17:46	justin_smith	or maybe jmx beans are different...
17:47	cristian	Yes, JMX is a different beast. By bean I mean just simple POJOs
17:47	justin_smith	right, right
17:49	justin_smith	cristian: according to this, sometimes a record works (if you can make a record with the fields that matter) https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/clojure/Z7MwDUys8NA
17:50	arrdem	dnolen_: damn thanks for the fast turnaround :D
17:50	dnolen_	arrdem: np
17:53	cristian	justin_smith: Thanks, I'll take a look at that
17:58	justin_smith	cristian: just figured this out in my repl https://www.refheap.com/93004
17:58	justin_smith	cristian: depending how specifically you know the fields you care about beforehand, that approach should be usable
17:58	justin_smith	cristian: the trick is that you need the protocol in order to have the getX methods
18:00	arrdem	dnolen_: I messed up and forgot the namespace separator. Shall I just update the ticket?
18:00	cristian	justin_smith: interesting!
18:00	justin_smith	cristian: Clojure is very opinionated about implementing to an interface rather than a class, so you can only create the methods if you get them from a defined interface
18:01	justin_smith	cristian: a protocol is just a clojure abstraction for an interface (and java can use what it creates as an interface)
18:01	dnolen_	arrdem: fixed in master
18:01	arrdem	dnolen_: thanks.
18:03	justin_smith	cristian: to be clear "bean" is for turning beans into hash-maps, so an instance of Foo should work where a bean is expected
18:04	justin_smith	cristian: if not, you could instead reify the FooProto and use that
18:05	cristian	ok
18:10	Glenjamin	does anyone know of a good primer/cheatsheet on clojure syntax?
18:10	arrdem	reidrapper's clojure tutorial posts are good...
18:10	bbloom	Glenjamin: http://clojure.org/reader
18:11	bbloom	Glenjamin: and http://yobriefca.se/blog/2014/05/19/the-weird-and-wonderful-characters-of-clojure/
18:11	Glenjamin	this is to use as a reference for a cljs workshop where people won't know any clojure
18:11	Glenjamin	but will be familar with FP
18:12	Glenjamin	i've written half an app, so the plan is they'll be able to finish it
18:12	bbloom	the second one is probably the easiest to use as a quick reference
18:12	Glenjamin	i might try and write something that only covers the bits i'm using
18:13	Glenjamin	can't decide whether to reduce myself to a smaller subset
18:13	Glenjamin	maybe remove any destructuring and use (fn [] over )#()
18:14	justin_smith	Glenjamin: "reduce myself to a smaller subset" sounds like nerdy jargon for going on a diet
18:18	Glenjamin	cheers for the links bbloom
18:18	Glenjamin	what language intro tutorial do people tend to recommend these days?
18:31	dnolen_	Glenjamin: the best ones are the books still - there are several things online now that's useful - http://www.braveclojure.com/, Kyle Kingsbury's (aka aphyr) intros
18:31	dnolen_	Timothy Baldridge and Eric Normand have nice inexpensive videos
18:36	razum2um	can I composite filtering functions via "and" & "or" (say I have divisible-by-3 and divisible-by-5) or do I need to stick with #(and (divisible-by-3 %) (divisible-by-5 %)) because "and" is a macro?
18:37	razum2um	i mean is there a more "clojurish" way to comp them?
18:39	metellus	,(doc every-pred);; razum2um would this do what you want?
18:39	clojurebot	"([p] [p1 p2] [p1 p2 p3] [p1 p2 p3 & ps]); Takes a set of predicates and returns a function f that returns true if all of its composing predicates return a logical true value against all of its arguments, else it returns false. Note that f is short-circuiting in that it will stop execution on the first argument that triggers a logical false result against the original predicates."
18:39	Raynes	I believe so.
18:40	razum2um	metellus: that's ok, thanks, but there is some-pred for OR ?
18:40	justin_smith	,((every-pred #(zero? (mod % 5)) #(zero? (mod % 3))) 15)
18:40	clojurebot	true
18:41	razum2um	,(filter #(or (divisible-by-3 %) (divisible-by-5 %)) (range 20))
18:41	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: divisible-by-3 in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
18:42	razum2um	but you got the idea
18:42	justin_smith	,(filter (every-pred #(zero? (mod % 5)) #(zero? (mod % 3))) (range))
18:42	clojurebot	(0 15 30 45 60 ...)
18:42	metellus	some-fn, maybe?
18:42	justin_smith	oh you want or, not and?
18:42	metellus	he asked for both
18:43	razum2um	justin_smith: yes, wrote it twice already
18:43	justin_smith	razum2um: sorry, I missed that
18:43	razum2um	i just wonder why (comp & fns) is so neat and logical composition not
18:43	justin_smith	,(filter (some-fn #(zero? (mod % 5)) #(zero? (mod % 3))) (range))
18:44	clojurebot	(0 3 5 6 9 ...)
18:44	Raynes	In these cases I tend to just use for.
18:44	justin_smith	logical composition is neat
18:44	Raynes	It represents these complex structures better.
18:44	justin_smith	you just need to use the right functions
18:44	justin_smith	every-pred for and, some-fn for or
18:44	Raynes	filter, map, etc are great, but they're usually unwieldly when the predicate gets hairy.
18:44	razum2um	ok, we have "some-fn" and "every-pred" - very consistent :D
18:44	Raynes	Don't be afraid to use for just because it's for.
18:45	arrdem	for is one of my favorite features of Clojure
18:45	razum2um	but again, it's not equal to logical AND'ing and OR'ing functions
18:45	Raynes	Neither are doorknobs.
18:49	metellus	razum2um: juxt might be useful here
18:49	metellus	as another option for combining functions
18:59	razum2um	metellus: thanks! I needed exactly these to build what i need: (defn and-fns [& fns] (fn [& args] (every? true? (apply (apply juxt fns) args))))
19:00	razum2um	and (defn or-fns [& fns] (fn [& args] (some true? (apply (apply juxt fns) args))))
19:00	justin_smith	razum2um: how are those better than some-fn and every-pred?
19:00	razum2um	justin_smith: they are better composable
19:01	justin_smith	in what way?
19:01	razum2um	and resulting function can be composited with other
19:01	justin_smith	these things are all true of some-fn and every-pred?
19:02	razum2um	some-fn and every-pred are very limited in usage
19:02	justin_smith	no they aren't
19:03	arrdem	some-fn and every-pred have the same type signatures as your and-fns and or-fns. what on earth do you mean they aren't equally composable.
19:03	arrdem	actually they don't, because or-fns isn't gonna be lazy...
19:03	arrdem	and ever-pred is explicitly lazy
19:05	razum2um	hm, you're right
19:05	razum2um	my bad, sorry,
19:09	crack_user	hello guys
19:09	crack_user	some one knows a good way to start in clojure?
19:11	TEttinger	crack_user, what experience do you have in other languages?
19:11	crack_user	ruby, rails
19:12	crack_user	I am rails guy basicaly, and I find some dificult to start in clojure
19:12	crack_user	is very diferent to I am used to do
19:12	TEttinger	http://www.braveclojure.com/ I have heard good stuff about
19:12	TEttinger	I used 4clojutr
19:12	TEttinger	4clojure
19:13	TEttinger	$google 4clojure
19:13	lazybot	[4clojure – Welcome!] https://www.4clojure.com/
19:13	justin_smith	yeah 4clojure / clojure koans can help you get a feel for things
19:13	justin_smith	~koans
19:13	clojurebot	Gabh mo leithscéal?
19:13	justin_smith	clojurebot: koans \|is\| http://clojurekoans.com/
19:13	clojurebot	In Ordnung
19:13	justin_smith	~koans
19:13	arrdem	of all the "learn clojure" resources that aren't print books, the koans have had the most effort put into them
19:13	clojurebot	koans is http://clojurekoans.com/
19:13	arrdem	,(+ 1 2)
19:13	clojurebot	eval service is offline
19:14	TEttinger	##(+ 1 2 3)
19:14	lazybot	⇒ 6
19:14	TEttinger	(inc lazybot)
19:14	lazybot	⇒ 34
19:14	arrdem	no... clojurebot is fine I'm checking to see if I'm still on hiredman's blacklist
19:15	TEttinger	lol
19:15	oskarkv	,(+)
19:15	clojurebot	0
19:15	crack_user	thx, I whill check theses links
19:15	TEttinger	how'd that happen, arrdem?
19:15	arrdem	TEttinger: hell if I know. I assume I got the stick transitively when bitemyapp did
19:16	TEttinger	are you on the same box?
19:16	justin_smith	cristian: updated the paste with an example of using reify, which is more succinct if you are only doing it once https://www.refheap.com/93004
19:16	arrdem	nah
19:16	arrdem	https://github.com/hiredman/clojurebot/issues/5
19:28	cristian	justin_smith: awesome, thanks dude
19:30	justin_smith	I haven't really played with gen-class, since I haven't done much of the sort of interop that requires it. Is there a way to play with gen-class in the repl? does that even make any sense?
19:59	amalloy	justin_smith: no, you can't
20:00	justin_smith	amalloy: OK, that's what I was afraid of
20:00	justin_smith	verified: the truth hurts
20:17	technomancy	hm; can't you just bind compiling-files or whatever?
20:18	technomancy	err--not bind, but change
20:19	justin_smith	,(apropos "compiling")
20:19	clojurebot	()
20:19	justin_smith	,(apropos "files")
20:19	clojurebot	(clojure.core/compile-files)
20:20	justin_smith	&(doc compile-files)
20:20	lazybot	⇒ "; Set to true when compiling files, false otherwise."
20:21	justin_smith	technomancy: but I would still need to put the class definition into a file before it could be compiled though I think
20:22	rritoch	@justin_smith: There is another way, I believe I talked to you about it but the code is now open sourced.
20:22	justin_smith	rritoch: oh yeah, I still intend to look at that
20:22	rritoch	I think it's in the kernel, I"m checking now
20:22	justin_smith	I tried to run marginalia but it couldn't resolve some of the deps
20:23	rritoch	Yeah, because it's linked to my private repository, I need to move everything to clojars
20:24	rritoch	justin_smith: Take a look at this code https://github.com/rritoch/clj-grid-kernel/blob/master/src/com/vnetpublishing/clj/grid/lib/grid/kernel.clj#L500-L503
20:24	rritoch	This compiles from a URL as an inputstream
20:24	justin_smith	OK
20:24	rritoch	So there's no need to write a file first
20:28	technomancy	justin_smith: are you sure?
20:28	technomancy	I don't see why
20:28	rritoch	Anyhow, today is my day off so I hope to resolve the final resource loading issue with the servletcontext, and move everything to clojars (in that order).
20:28	technomancy	afaik compiling is just loading with compile-files set to true
20:29	justin_smith	technomancy: right, so I need to load something, it isn't a repl thing
20:29	justin_smith	technomancy: that's all I meant
20:29	justin_smith	technomancy: or do you mean if I turn compile-files on, things I enter in the repl will get compiled?
20:29	technomancy	sorry, not loading, evaling
20:30	technomancy	~tias
20:30	clojurebot	Try it and see! You'll get results faster than asking someone in #clojure to evaluate it for you, and you'll get that warm, fuzzy feeling of self-reliance.
20:30	justin_smith	ahh, interesting
20:30	technomancy	heh, I forgot that factoid had that commentary attached to it
20:31	rritoch	technomancy: That is not completely true, setting compile-files to true doesn't generate the __init classes needed to instantiate gen-class's
20:31	technomancy	rritoch: hm; ok. interesting.
20:31	justin_smith	technomancy: https://www.refheap.com/93012
20:32	rritoch	technomancy: That is why I had to hack directly into the compiler and call Compiler/compile to get those __init classes
20:32	technomancy	now we know =)
20:32	rritoch	technomancy: Personally though I think it would be much better if simply enabling compile-files would compile everything that gets eval'd
20:33	technomancy	rritoch: yeah, me too.
20:33	technomancy	are they emitted by c.c/compile?
20:34	technomancy	oh, probably that's just a wrapper around Compiler/compile
20:37	rritoch	technomancy: The code which does it is @ https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/Compiler.java#L7378-L7382
20:40	rritoch	techmomancy: As for the clojure.core/compile, that wraps clojure.lang.RT/load
20:41	rritoch	technomancy: That is what caught me while trying to figure out how to compile an input stream because I was confusing Compiler/load with clojure.lang.RT/load which are two entirely different things.
20:48	luther07	uther07(+i)] [2:freenode/#clojure(+cnt)] [Act: 1]
21:00	rritoch	Is there a "with" syntax for calling a method on an object if the passed object argument isn't null?
21:02	rritoch	This is the code I have but it seems like there must be a good way to reduce (golf) this code... (defn -getResourceAsStream [this path] (let [r (get resource path)] (if x (.openStream r))))
21:03	rritoch	err: it's (get-resource path) not (get resource path) ...
21:05	amalloy	rritoch: do you mean x there, or r?
21:06	justin_smith	(defn -getResourceAsStream [this path] (if-let [r (get-resource path)] (.openStream r)))
21:06	rritoch	amalloy: r
21:06	rritoch	justin_smith: thx, that is much better
21:06	amalloy	s/if/when
21:06	rritoch	justin_smith: It is such a common case though, there should really be a macro for it
21:07	justin_smith	if-let / when-let are said macros
21:07	amalloy	indeed. and if you really want to, you can write a more specialized version yourself
21:07	justin_smith	oh, there is some-> too
21:07	rritoch	justin_smith: Like (if-with ob (.Somefunc arg1 arg2 ...))
21:08	justin_smith	(defn -getReasourceAsStream [this path] (some-> (get-resource path) .openStream))
21:08	justin_smith	amalloy prefers () around the .openStream
21:08	rritoch	Hmm... I'll need to check that out, I never used some->
21:09	justin_smith	it is that common case you talked about - it stops chaining if any of the results are nil
21:09	rritoch	justin_smith: Yeah, I think some-> is what I want :)
21:09	amalloy	it's true, i do prefer (.openStream)
21:10	crack_user	hey guys
21:10	crack_user	what its the bets way to resolve this koan
21:10	crack_user	(= (__ (list 1 2 3 4 5)) 4)
21:10	crack_user	I made "(fn [x] (first (rest (reverse x))))"
21:11	crack_user	there is a better solution?
21:12	rritoch	Are you allowed nth? #(nth (reverse %) 1)
21:13	justin_smith	,(first (take-last 2) [0 1 2 3 4])
21:13	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (1) passed to: core/take-last>
21:13	justin_smith	err
21:13	justin_smith	,(first (take-last 2 [0 1 2 3 4]))
21:13	clojurebot	3
21:15	crack_user	thx for the answers guys
21:16	justin_smith	the doc-string on take-last is a bit iffy - "Depending on the type of coll may be no better than linear time" - then it does a loop over seq no matter the input type
21:16	justin_smith	so it should just say "no better than linear time"
21:20	TEttinger	crack_user: #(dec (count %))
21:21	rritoch	Bah!
21:21	rritoch	I resolved the resource loader issue and ran into another nasty bug
21:21	rritoch	http://home.vnetpublishing.com:8080/~vwpdev/?app=version
21:21	justin_smith	take-last could theoretically use rseq,take,reverse on vectors...
21:22	crack_user	TEttinger this is like a cheat, xP
21:25	justin_smith	TEttinger: surely you mean (comp dec count)
21:25	rritoch	I've gone to great lengths to avoid making a custom class loader for this system but I think this the JSP servlet is going to force me :(
21:29	rritoch	YAY!
21:29	rritoch	Clojure classloader worked
21:29	rritoch	http://home.vnetpublishing.com:8080/~vwpdev/?app=version
21:31	rritoch	The some-> syntax is MUCH cleaner..... https://github.com/rritoch/clj-grid-core/blob/master/src/com/vnetpublishing/clj/grid/lib/grid/webapp/servlet_context_wrapper.clj#L73-L74
21:31	rritoch	Anyhow, now to "fight" with clojars
21:31	justin_smith	yeah, some-> is very nice
21:32	justin_smith	(inc some->)
21:32	lazybot	⇒ 1
21:32	rritoch	I have no idea where I put my clojars key
21:32	rritoch	The only clojars project I have so far is clj-nativedep https://github.com/rritoch/clj-nativedep/blob/master/README.md
21:34	rritoch	I coded it a long time ago, it's still in C-style formatting
21:35	dbasch	crack_user: for that matter, (constantly 4) would work too :)
21:36	crack_user	yep :D
21:38	rritoch	Do I need to add clojars to my project.clj :repositories to do a lein deploy clojars ?
21:41	rritoch	Also... What java version should I deploy with? I'm currently using java 1.8 but should I use 1.6 or lower for compatibility purposes?
21:41	justin_smith	rritoch: I think clojure will target 1.6 regardless?
21:42	justin_smith	perhaps not though
21:43	rritoch	It doesn't. I specifically had to install this version of java because it's what my client uses, I usually prefer to stick with oracle releases but at the time oracle didn't yet have 1.8.20+ released so I had to use openjdk
21:44	rritoch	Can I add something to my project.clj to force compiling to 1.6 using the 1.8 JRE?
21:45	rritoch	Hmm, actually I guess I need 1.7+ since it uses tomcat libraries
21:50	rritoch	Ok, I see this here..... https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/master/sample.project.clj#L248
21:50	rritoch	But I'm not sure about this -Xlint:-options param.
21:52	rritoch	I guess I'll just try it and see if it burns to the ground
21:59	liathit	Which is web framework most popular now?
21:59	liathit	Jodo, luminus, etc..
22:05	rritoch	liathit: Do you have a link for Jodo? I honestly haven't heard of either framework, but I'm developing my own clojure/mvc framework
22:06	rritoch	liathit: My framework is targeting Web 4.0 -> Web 5.0 technology though so it won't be market ready for awhile.
22:07	liathit	rritoch, http://www.joodoweb.com/
22:08	rritoch	thx
22:08	rritoch	liathit: from my research all I could find was that most lojure web-apps were built on the back of ring
22:08	rritoch	I had to forsake ring though because my framwork provides jsp support which is mutually exclusive with ring at this time.
22:10	ddellacosta	rritoch: why, curious?
22:11	ddellacosta	liathit: I don't know that frameworks are that heavily used by people doing "real" Clojure web dev, but if anyone is I'd guess luminus
22:12	rritoch	ddellacosta: Ring provides it's own javax/servlet/Servlet.class and forbids any external libraries which incliude that class. Since the tomcat libraries which provide JSP support include that class there it won't load from ring.
22:12	ddellacosta	rritoch: ah, I see
22:13	rritoch	ddellacosta: Tomcat isn't the only JSP compiler on the market though, I suppose there may be one that's compatbile with ring, but the tomcat version is most widely tested and has the best licensing in my opinion so for now I don't have any ring support
22:14	rritoch	ddellacosta: Though I still have some code fragments remaining incase this issue gets resolved
22:14	rritoch	https://github.com/rritoch/clj-grid-core/blob/master/src/com/vnetpublishing/clj/grid/lib/grid/ring/core.clj
22:15	rritoch	It doesn't work anymore but I'll maintain that piece of code if I can convince the ring team to allow tomcat dependencies
22:17	rritoch	Without ring I'm probably going to need to add a standalone server from lein eventually, but for now I just use a CGI-like execution to test with, and I deploy to tomcat.
22:20	rritoch	I set :javac-options ["-target" "1.7" "-source" "1.7" "-Xlint:-options"] in my project.clj and the generated class files are saying major version: 49 ???? How do I get these to compile to 1.7?
22:23	justin_smith	you may need :javac-options ^:replace there
22:23	justin_smith	not sure though
22:24	justin_smith	but wait, javac options are only for javac
22:24	justin_smith	clojure code is not compiled with javac
22:24	justin_smith	it's compiled with asm.java
22:24	rritoch	justin_smith: Aaah, that makes sense
22:26	rritoch	justin_smith: So is there any way to alter the version of the .clj gen-classes?
22:27	justin_smith	I really don't know
22:27	justin_smith	49 is pretty conservative
22:27	justin_smith	nobody should be using an older version than that
22:27	rritoch	I guess it doesn't matter, these 49's are working inside Tomcat7 which is good enough for me
22:27	rritoch	Tomcat7+ is my target
22:27	justin_smith	49 is java 5
22:28	justin_smith	I don't know if you can make clojure output a different target version or not
22:28	justin_smith	major versions as documented here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_class_file#General_layout
22:29	rritoch	justin_smith: What is the normal way to deal with these private repositories in :repositories
22:30	justin_smith	I don't know, I have never used private repositories actually
22:30	rritoch	justin_smith: end-users shouldn't have to deal with the gpg-authentication since they won't have access to my private repositories anyhow, will they be auto-ignored since they're not listed in the users local gpg credentials?
22:30	justin_smith	rritoch: gpg credentials are only for uploads
22:31	justin_smith	if they want to upload, they can make their own clojars or maven-central account
22:31	rritoch	justin_smith: No, I get queried for gpg credentials on compiles, probably because these are private repositories, only members can read
22:31	justin_smith	weird, I have no idea
22:31	justin_smith	like I said, I have never used private repos
22:32	rritoch	I guess I'll just remove these repositories, since I'm moving to clojars anyhow I shouldn't need the local copies anymore anyhow
22:36	rritoch	Hmm, I really lost my clojars keys
22:37	rritoch	Aah, I figured it out, I entered the wrong password doh
22:40	rritoch	Ok, clj-grid-kernel is now on clojars, I should have the rest up soon
22:41	rritoch	justin_smith: That should solve any problems you're having with the sources, but you should probably checkout again
22:41	rritoch	after I'm done with all these uploads
22:42	rritoch	err: git update = checkout again
22:43	rritoch	The version plugin gets built via "lein grid bundle" which should be available once I have all of this stuff uploaded
22:49	justin_smith	rritoch: thanks, I hosed libc on a server today, otherwise I would have taken the time to look it over today
22:49	justin_smith	haha
22:50	rritoch	owech
22:50	justin_smith	rritoch: I was able to fix it though :)
22:50	justin_smith	it's fun using a system that has no glibc installed
22:52	rritoch	Hmm, last I recall nothing runs without glibc if it utilizes any shared libraries. I once built a custom (LFS) system and ran into a lot of malfunctioning states like invalid glibc
22:52	justin_smith	yup, the first part is figuring out what doesn't use shared libs
22:52	justin_smith	busybox is a lifesaver
22:53	justin_smith	luckily every distro makes sure it is installed
22:53	justin_smith	ed for editing files :)
22:54	justin_smith	bonus points: make sure you have a user whose login shell is statically compiled, then you may even be able to execute new logins
22:56	rritoch	hmm, well back when I played with LFS entering single user mode via the bootloader was trivial and standard practice so I didn't need a valid login, but that does sound like a good trick
22:57	rritoch	I think for "catostrophic" states I had a static chroot setup and would chroot to a 100% static environment
22:57	rritoch	Not ram efficieint, but it worked
23:11	rritoch	justin_smith: Ok, clj-grid* is now deployed to clojars
23:12	rritoch	Just let me know if you run into any more issues. These have snapshot dependencies, which I believe my machine is specifically setup to allow which may cause a problem for users.
23:13	rritoch	But this codebase is really not ready for any kind of release
23:13	rritoch	Even trivial things like delivering javascript resources contained in OSGi modules for <script src=...> hasn't been dealt with.
23:17	rritoch	The next stage of development for the grid platform is to implement the fscript deployment for optimization purposes, and then deal with the resource delivery issues.
23:19	rritoch	This is why I'm losing motivation, I've been digging through the "trenches" of systems-level code for so long that when it finally functioned correctly it was an anti-climax.
23:53	TEttinger	hiredman, arrdem, ddellacosta: I am curious what led to this https://github.com/hiredman/clojurebot/commit/fd3d1a7c036118ba4a3984fa789227c138133630
23:54	ddellacosta	TEttinger: yeah, me too, and also curious why hiredman doesn't respond to this: https://github.com/hiredman/clojurebot/issues/5 , but I've basically given up on him
23:55	ddellacosta	,(println "freaking lame")
23:55	clojurebot	eval service is offline
23:55	ddellacosta	&(println "luckily lazybot exists")
23:55	lazybot	⇒ luckily lazybot exists nil
23:56	justin_smith	ddellacosta: and check this, I got him updated ##(clojure-version)
23:56	lazybot	⇒ "1.7.0-alpha1"
23:56	ddellacosta	justin_smith: oh, nice. :-)
23:57	justin_smith	no more 1.4 ghetto for the ignored folks
23:57	ddellacosta	hahaha...sweet.
23:57	seancorfield	justin_smith: any reason for alpha1 rather than alpha3? :)
23:58	justin_smith	seancorfield: has to do with the version that was current when I started doing my update
23:58	justin_smith	seancorfield: it's a simple pr if you care to make it :)
23:58	seancorfield	Ah ok
23:59	justin_smith	really I should have double checked the current clojure cutting edge release before submitting my pr to raynes/lazybot
23:59	stapler	is there a "clojure in a box" for windows?
23:59	stapler	oh gee nevermind, answered my own question.