#clojure – 2014-10-22

2014-10-22

00:27	justin_smith	rritoch: in clojure eval always compiles
01:23	numberten	is there any reason that core's implementation of the 'take' function has a lazy-seq around the outter most sexpr?
01:24	numberten	I'd have imagined that the second argument to cons would be wrapped in 'lazy-seq'
01:24	numberten	the second argument being the recursive call
01:26	justin_smith	numberten: otherwise it would realize the first n elements
01:27	justin_smith	,(do (take 10 (map println (range))) nil)
01:27	clojurebot	nil
01:27	Balveda	Any simple ways to check if a character is a number in clojurescript?
01:28	justin_smith	,(do ((fn tk [n coll] (when (pos? n) (when-let [s (seq coll)] (cons (first s) (lazy-seq (take (dec n) (rest s))))))) 10 (map println (range))) nil) ; numberten
01:28	clojurebot	0\n1\n2\n3\n4\n5\n6\n7\n8\n9\n10\n11\n12\n13\n14\n15\n16\n17\n18\n19\n20\n21\n22\n23\n24\n25\n26\n27\n28\n29\n30\n31\n
01:28	justin_smith	thanks to chunking, it even realizes more than the first 10
01:29	numberten	i see
01:29	dbasch	justin_smith: you want to replace take by tk probably
01:29	numberten	thanks :)
01:29	justin_smith	dbasch: good point :)
01:29	dbasch	in the recursive call of tk
01:30	justin_smith	dbasch: it leads to the same result, but may as well demonstrate
01:30	justin_smith	,(do ((fn tk [n coll] (when (pos? n) (when-let [s (seq coll)] (cons (first s) (lazy-seq (tk (dec n) (rest s))))))) 10 (map println (range))) nil) ; numberten
01:30	dbasch	but if you use a large number it will blow the stack
01:30	clojurebot	0\n1\n2\n3\n4\n5\n6\n7\n8\n9\n10\n11\n12\n13\n14\n15\n16\n17\n18\n19\n20\n21\n22\n23\n24\n25\n26\n27\n28\n29\n30\n31\n
01:31	numberten	shouldn't it have only printed the first element? in the case where you accidentally called take instead of tk?
01:31	justin_smith	numberten: chunking
01:31	numberten	i see
01:31	justin_smith	notice it is printing more than 10 elements too
01:32	justin_smith	it just grabs and processes the next chunk, but returns the count you asked for
01:32	numberten	yeah
01:32	numberten	i see
01:32	numberten	so chunks come in blocks of 32
01:32	numberten	it looks like
01:32	justin_smith	side effects inside a lazy operation are a bad idea for this reason, better to feed a lazy input to your side effecting function
01:32	numberten	alright
01:32	justin_smith	doseq was designed for this case
01:33	justin_smith	dbasch: I still don't always get when a given lazy-seq will blow the stack or not - do you know of a good book chapter or blog post covering it in some depth?
01:36	numberten	wouldn't processing a lazy-seq use O(1) space as long as you don't maintain a reference to the head?
01:37	egghead	i'm pretty sure it happens inside a for loop in most cases
01:38	egghead	i got bored and implemented a subset of clj in js, lazy seqs was one of the things
01:39	justin_smith	egghead: I have seen stacks blow up from combinations of reduce / concat
01:39	Balveda	Anyone? Not sure how to handle this
01:39	egghead	but both of those should be happening inside of a while loop iirc justin_smith :/
01:40	egghead	https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/clj/clojure/core/protocols.clj#L72-L77
01:41	egghead	but ya, guess there are many ways to skin a cat...
01:42	vIkSiT	Hi all
01:42	vIkSiT	when using a simple compojure app, I'm getting empty params {}
01:42	vIkSiT	I can see the query string contains my params
01:43	vIkSiT	https://gist.github.com/viksit/15464b3bbd6b70b7478d
01:43	vIkSiT	Any idea what the hell is going on?
01:43	safety	*/
01:43	safety	nvm
01:44	vIkSiT	both /sample and /posts in that route show empty params
01:46	egghead	hm vIkSiT
01:47	egghead	usually I use (compojure.handler/site routes) instead or `wrap-params`
01:48	dbasch	justin_smith: in that particular case, it’s just the recursive calls that create new stack frames for every call
01:48	egghead	but recursive calls to lazy seqs don't happen on the stack
01:48	vIkSiT	egghead, I didnt know that existed - trying to pieece together that!
01:48	egghead	since the recursion happens in a closure
01:49	vIkSiT	so you're saying I use instead of the (-> routes wrap-params) a simple (c.h/site routes)
01:49	dbasch	oh, lazy seqs, never mind
01:49	vIkSiT	I thought compjure.handler was deprecated in 1.2 though
01:49	vIkSiT	as per their docs
01:50	vIkSiT	egghead, still no luck
01:50	egghead	vIkSiT: that is just because it was moved here: https://github.com/ring-clojure/ring-defaults/blob/master/src/ring/middleware/defaults.clj#L79
01:50	vIkSiT	egghead, hrm so I'm very new to compojure
01:51	egghead	vIkSiT: :( - the example you posted looked fine to me tbqh
01:51	dbasch	justin_smith: in your example you’d removed the lazy-seq
01:51	vIkSiT	what is the easiest way to get my params as a map from the request?
01:51	egghead	why not try {:as req} and inspect the request object itself?
01:51	egghead	maybe something funny is happening, who knows
01:51	vIkSiT	how so?
01:51	vIkSiT	oh I did that
01:51	vIkSiT	see /posts?
01:52	dbasch	justin_smith: actually you hadn’t, you’d moved it inside
01:52	vIkSiT	if I do : http://localhost:9000/posts?author=viksit&title=foo
01:52	vIkSiT	I see {:ssl-client-cert nil, :remote-addr "0:0:0:0:0:0:0:1", :params {}, :route-params {}, .... }
01:52	vIkSiT	and :query-string "author=viksit&title=foo"
01:53	egghead	vIkSiT: i just do 'lein new compojure my-app-name'
01:53	egghead	and then stuff usually works :shrugs:
01:53	egghead	condolences :p
01:53	justin_smith	dbasch: I put it inside the cons call, because that was the case numberten was describing / asking about
01:54	dbasch	justin_smith: yes, it wouldn’t blow the stack, my bad
01:57	dbasch	speaking of stack overflow, I’m running into this bug (apparently) when trying to serialize a large PersistentHashMap http://bugs.java.com/view_bug.do?bug_id=4152790
01:58	justin_smith	woah, that sucks
01:58	justin_smith	dbasch: convert to /from an adjacency list representation?
01:59	dbasch	it’s a map of pairs word -> vector of words
01:59	dbasch	I can try making it a vector and see if it changes anything, or turn it into a java util hashmap
02:00	justin_smith	or even an array of two element arrays
02:00	justin_smith	yeah
02:00	justin_smith	no need for something that fancy if it's shallow
02:02	piranha	anybody using prismatic's schema here? I've updated to 0.3.1 and coercer returns an arraymap (like {:error [:smth is-wrong]}), which is not considered error by schema.utils/error? - is this a known issue?
02:34	piranha	hm, 'lein clean' resolved problem :)
02:39	justin_smith	piranha: ahh, yeah, should have thought of that
02:39	piranha	:)
02:39	justin_smith	library upgrades and cached compiled stuff don't mix nicely
02:42	piranha	yeah, unfortunately
02:42	piranha	I thought that's a problem mostly for clojurescript, but I was wrong apparently :)
02:53	justin_smith	regarding caching of compiled artifacts: http://33.media.tumblr.com/2f62641ff71d2ff0178d630549959903/tumblr_ncjpycT0Yj1s71q1zo1_1280.png
03:28	mearnsh	lol
03:31	kenrestivo	personal pet peeve: committing compiled artifacts into git.
04:21	dysfun	what's the easiest way to locally redefine a function for purposes of testing?
04:35	sveri	dysfun: maybe this one? http://clojuredocs.org/clojure.core/with-redefs-fn
04:43	dysfun	that looks perfect, thanks
04:57	dysfun	hrm. how about redefining macros?
04:59	dysfun	i want to do a macroexpand-1 to test a macro which calls a function, but of course i need to recompile the macro
05:05	sveri	dysfun: well, I know nothing about macros, sry
05:06	dysfun	heh. it's a fairly unusual thing i'm doing. i expected to run into some difficulties
05:07	clgv	dysfun: what exactly do you mean? you can redefine macros as you can redefine functions
05:08	clgv	dysfun: or do you want to rebind a name to a macro in a local scope?
05:08	dysfun	yes
05:08	clgv	the latter?
05:09	dysfun	well, what i actually want to achieve is 'recompile the function with the same source so as to pick up the new version of the function you depend on'
05:10	clgv	well, functions are looked up through the symbols when you call them directly, so you always get the latest definition in that case.
05:11	clgv	dysfun: can you provide a small example demonstrating the problem/feature?
05:14	dysfun	no, it works, and i've figured out why
05:15	dysfun	it's because of where the metadata is attached
05:15	dysfun	it's all working now
05:16	clgv	well, fine. no idea what the problem was, though
05:23	dysfun	it was more i anticipated one where there wasn't one :)
05:24	dysfun	i've been doing this job for too long :)
07:01	martinklepsch	what could be going wrong when it takes a long time for an alts! to pick up a value from a channel?
07:02	martinklepsch	I'm sure the value has been put on the channel but it still takes seconds for the alts! block to start handling it
07:04	martinklepsch	(oh and the channel where the value has been put on is a pipeline-async channel, so it's not actually THE channel I use alts! on. (if my understanding of pipeline-async is correct))
07:04	SagiCZ1	,(meta cons)
07:04	clojurebot	nil
07:04	mosdd	what is the current status for using clojure for creating small, short-running command line utilities that need a fast startup? how fast can we clojure program to start, and what would it take?
07:04	SagiCZ1	,(meta 'cons)
07:04	clojurebot	nil
07:04	SagiCZ1	why does it return nil, when the function clearly has meta data?
07:05	cursork	,(meta #'cons)
07:05	clojurebot	{:ns #<Namespace clojure.core>, :name cons, :added "1.0", :file "clojure/core.clj", :static true, ...}
07:05	SagiCZ1	cursork: thank you
07:05	SagiCZ1	why is that necessary?
07:06	hyPiRion	'foo refers to the symbol, whereas, #'foo refers to the var
07:06	hyPiRion	#'foo is sort-of shorthand for (resolve 'foo)
07:06	martinklepsch	mosdd: I'm not sure if there's a right way of doing this. I always like to believe that cljs might work well it that spot but never tried
07:06	hyPiRion	,(meta (resolve 'cons))
07:06	clojurebot	{:ns #<Namespace clojure.core>, :name cons, :added "1.0", :file "clojure/core.clj", :static true, ...}
07:06	SagiCZ1	hyPiRion: thank you
07:07	SagiCZ1	and how could i just see docs for something?
07:07	SagiCZ1	,(doc #'+)
07:07	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.Cons cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Symbol, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_FILE:0:0)>
07:07	SagiCZ1	,(doc #'cons)
07:07	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.Cons cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Symbol, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_FILE:0:0)>
07:07	SagiCZ1	(doc cons)
07:07	clojurebot	"([x seq]); Returns a new seq where x is the first element and seq is the rest."
07:07	SagiCZ1	,(doc cons)
07:07	clojurebot	"([x seq]); Returns a new seq where x is the first element and seq is the rest."
07:07	SagiCZ1	my repl cant find the doc function
07:09	hyPiRion	are you using `lein repl` ? Clojure by default doesn't ship doc
07:09	SagiCZ1	,clojure.main/repl-requires
07:09	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to find static field: repl-requires in class clojure.main, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
07:09	hyPiRion	Clojure as in `clojure`, `lein repl` contains doc
07:09	SagiCZ1	yeah its lein repl
07:10	hyPiRion	well then, that's strange. doc should be included there
07:10	cursork	SagiCZ1: Changed namespace?
07:10	SagiCZ1	cursork: yes
07:10	SagiCZ1	cursork: wait so thats the problem?
07:10	SagiCZ1	thats why it works SOMETIMES
07:11	cursork	SagiCZ1: Yep. Lein just does a (use 'clojure.repl) for you
07:11	hyPiRion	ooh, yeah
07:11	SagiCZ1	damn im stupid.. thank you
07:13	clgv	mosdd: not optimal. you can speed up via "drip" or "grenchman" for leiningen
07:14	jsanda	hi all. i am using the << (string interpolation) fn from clojure.core.strint. can someone tell me how to pass a variable to it?
07:14	mosdd	clgv do you know the start up of hello world if you tested it?
07:14	jsanda	i try unquoting like, (<< ~myvar), but that just evaluates to
07:15	mosdd	+time
07:15	jsanda	"(clojure.core/unquote myvar)"
07:15	clgv	mosdd: easy to check, just write one an aot compile it ;)
07:15	scottj	jsanda: (<< "This trial required ~{v}ml of solution.")
07:16	scottj	jsanda: http://clojure.github.io/core.incubator/clojure.core.strint-api.html
07:16	SagiCZ1	whats wrong with this function, that doc keeps returning nil for it? https://www.refheap.com/92146
07:16	mosdd	lol ok, I hae to find out what aot is first
07:16	jsanda	scottj: i want to pass a var
07:17	jsanda	(def myvar "This trial required ~{v}ml of solution.")
07:17	jsanda	(<< ~myvar) ;; does not work though
07:17	noncom	is it possible to modify a loaded java class bytecode in runtime? are there any clojure libs for that ?
07:18	TEttinger	SagiCZ1: docstring goes before arglist
07:18	clgv	jsanda: probably because the macro `<<` expects a string literal
07:18	SagiCZ1	TEttinger: ohh... missed that, thank you
07:18	clgv	$source clojure.core.strint
07:18	lazybot	Source not found.
07:19	jsanda	clgv: ok, thanks
07:20	clgv	jsanda: well the implementation is pretty strange
07:20	clgv	jsanda: https://github.com/clojure/core.incubator/blob/master/src/main/clojure/clojure/core/strint.clj#L49
07:21	martinklepsch	mosdd If you're familiar with javascript I'd recommend to evaluate that as well
07:21	jsanda	clgv: looking...
07:22	mosdd	recur is used when you have tail recursion and direct recursion otherwise?
07:22	clgv	jsanda: I think that might be a reason why it did not make it into clojure, yet
07:23	jsanda	hmm...any suggestions on an alternative string interpolation fn?
07:24	martinklepsch	http://gearon.blogspot.de/2013/03/clojurescript-and-nodejs.html
07:24	clgv	jsanda: you can just use that one with literal strings
07:24	clgv	jsanda: or are the string constants you tried to use mandatory?
07:24	hyPiRion	jsanda: cl-format?
07:24	clgv	jsanda: you can use `interpolate` directly instead of `<<` when using constants
07:25	jsanda	clgv: string constants don't work for me. i'm trying to pass in string that are loaded from files
07:25	clgv	jsanda: ok, use `interpolate` directly
07:25	hyPiRion	,(require '[clojure.string :as s])
07:25	clojurebot	nil
07:25	jsanda	ok, thanks
07:25	TEttinger	,(format "This trial required %1ml of solution." 10)
07:25	clojurebot	#<UnknownFormatConversionException java.util.UnknownFormatConversionException: Conversion = 'm'>
07:25	hyPiRion	,(s/cl-format nil "~d duck~:p and ~d pig~:p" 13 1)
07:25	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: No such var: s/cl-format, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
07:25	clgv	jsanda: ah lol that one is private...
07:26	clgv	jsanda: I usually just use clojure.core/format
07:26	hyPiRion	oh, derp
07:26	TEttinger	,(format "This trial required %dml of solution." 10)
07:26	clojurebot	"This trial required 10ml of solution."
07:26	clgv	jsanda: not exactly the same use case...
07:27	jsanda	eyah
07:27	jsanda	yeah
07:27	clgv	hyPiRion: isn't that part of clojure.pprint?
07:27	hyPiRion	clgv:
07:27	hyPiRion	yeah
07:27	hyPiRion	,(require '[clojure.pprint :as pp])
07:27	clojurebot	nil
07:27	hyPiRion	,(pp/cl-format nil "~d duck~:p and ~d pig~:p" 13 1)
07:27	clojurebot	"13 ducks and 1 pig"
07:27	hyPiRion	,(pp/cl-format nil "~r duck~:p and ~r pig~:p" 13 1)
07:27	clojurebot	"thirteen ducks and one pig"
07:27	TEttinger	:p is pluralize?
07:28	hyPiRion	TEttinger: yeah, pluralize last arg
07:28	TEttinger	,(pp/cl-format nil "~r radius~:p and ~r pig~:p" 13 1)
07:28	clojurebot	"thirteen radiuss and one pig"
07:28	TEttinger	hm
07:28	hyPiRion	have to use ~[~] for special cases
07:28	clgv	well it isn't really gramar aware ;)
07:28	TEttinger	it's majjyyk
07:28	clgv	*grammar
07:29	hyPiRion	TEttinger: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/a-few-format-recipes.html if you're interested
07:31	SagiCZ1	files in clojure are sequencible? how about buffered readers?
07:31	clgv	SagiCZ1: what?
07:32	SagiCZ1	i thought i read that somewhere
07:32	TEttinger	(doc file-seq)
07:32	clojurebot	"([dir]); A tree seq on java.io.Files"
07:32	SagiCZ1	yeah
07:32	clgv	ah well that explains more with fewer words ;)
07:32	SagiCZ1	well i need to read from buffered reader using readLine.. do i need loop for that?
07:33	clgv	SagiCZ1: you may also do it lazyly but with the problem that you dont know then too close the file
07:33	clgv	s/then/when/
07:33	martinklepsch	anyone an idea regarding my core.async pipeline delay issue?
07:33	SagiCZ1	its not a file.. i need to read line from the stream and put it in a blocking queue
07:35	Chaze	Hi there. Does clojure have a macro for "uncurrying" in the sense of putting its arguments into a vector?
07:35	clgv	SagiCZ1: well you could just have a thread in an endless loop doing that - but depends on your scenario if that is ok
07:36	SagiCZ1	cglv: but there is no while (true) in clojure, right?
07:36	Chaze	so, lets say i have a (def foo [x y]) and i want a macro that instead makes it a (def bar [[x y]])
07:36	clgv	SagiCZ1: interestingly there is
07:36	clgv	,(doc while)
07:36	clojurebot	"([test & body]); Repeatedly executes body while test expression is true. Presumes some side-effect will cause test to become false/nil. Returns nil"
07:36	SagiCZ1	Chaze: apply ?
07:36	SagiCZ1	clgv: oh
07:37	Chaze	SagiCZ1: nope, because i want to pass the "uncurried" function as an argument
07:37	clgv	SagiCZ1: so (future (while true ...)) might be an option. better: (future (while @continue ...))
07:37	Chaze	I can't say (map (apply foo) col) for instance
07:37	SagiCZ1	clgv: thank you
07:38	Chaze	Oooh. I can do (map (partial apply foo) col)
07:38	SagiCZ1	clgv: where continue is an atom flag right?
07:38	Chaze	SagiCZ1: thanks for the hint
07:40	clgv	SagiCZ1: yeah, for example an atom
08:02	SagiCZ1	,(+ 5 3)
08:02	clojurebot	8
08:02	SagiCZ1	,*1
08:02	clojurebot	#<Unbound Unbound: #'clojure.core/*1>
08:03	SagiCZ1	,1*
08:03	clojurebot	#<NumberFormatException java.lang.NumberFormatException: Invalid number: 1*>
08:03	SagiCZ1	,1
08:03	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: 1 in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
08:11	TEttinger	&*1
08:11	lazybot	⇒ #<Unbound Unbound: #'clojure.core/*1>
08:11	TEttinger	hm, looks like these don't fully act as REPLs
08:15	hyPiRion	They're more like REP
08:48	zapho53	Anyone using Yesql?
08:49	zapho53	defqueries keeps giving me a java.io.FileNotFoundException
08:51	jonathanj	hrm, if i add aleph to my deps and run lein repl i get:
08:51	jonathanj	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: No such namespace: d, compiling:(manifold/deferred.clj:721:7)>
08:52	jonathanj	and i can't require anything that depends on manifold
08:52	jonathanj	what gives? :(
08:52	nonrecursive	zapho53: can you share the full defqueries form you're using and the filesystem location of your queries file?
08:54	zapho53	nonrecursive: (defqueries "/Users/gmac/clj/db2/sql/db2.sql"). Exact file location.
08:57	nonrecursive	zapho53: hmm I'm not sure that would be on your classpath?
08:58	nonrecursive	zapho: I have my queries in "src/queries" and use e.g. (defqueries "queries/select/route.sql")
08:58	nonrecursive	zapho53: I just tried using the full filesystem path as well and got the same error as you
08:59	zapho53	nonrecursive: I'll try under src
09:00	dysfun	so i've volunteered to teach a friend of mine to program, but he uses windows. is it easy to get going with clojure and lein under windows?
09:00	clgv	dysfun: lighttable, counterclockwise and cursive are options to do that, easily
09:00	zapho53	nonrecursive: (defqueries "src/sql/db2.sql")
09:01	zapho53	... same Excetion
09:01	dysfun	hrm, i'd prefer something that
09:01	nonrecursive	you'll want to use
09:01	dysfun	wasn't tied to an IDE
09:01	nonrecursive	zapho53: (defqueries "sql/db2.sql")
09:02	jonathanj	looks like there was a bug in manifold-0.1.0-beta2 and unfortunately aleph-0.4.0-alpha4 depends on that
09:02	zapho53	nonrecursive: That worked. Thanks. Maybe the docs should make all this a bit clearer.
09:02	jonathanj	sigh
09:03	zapho53	nonrecursive: Instead of "some/where/users_by_country.sql"
09:03	nonrecursive	zapho53: the reason is that "src" is included in your classpath, and yesql looks up paths relative to the directories in your classpath
09:04	nonrecursive	zapho53: yeah I had to fiddle with it a bit myself the first time I used yesql, I agree it could be a bit clearer
09:04	zapho53	nonrecursive: Some libraries also work with absolute paths so it needs to be made clear.
09:04	roelof	I cannot understand this :
09:04	roelof	I have a function divides which looks like this : (defn divides? [divisor n] (=(mod n divisor)0))
09:05	roelof	when I do (divides? 400 4) I see false
09:05	roelof	but when I do ( mod 400 4) I see the output 0
09:05	roelof	why does divides still says false ?
09:08	clgv	dysfun: you need an editor and a repl (best when the editor can interact with the repl). all 3 options I listed provide that
09:14	agarman	quick question on using dependencies installed in local .m2
09:15	dysfun	clgv: actually, i was thinking those plus midje. and editor rather than ide
09:16	joegallo	agarman: proceed
09:16	roelof	no one who can help me ?
09:16	agarman	what is a good way of changing the class path for a mvn dependency that is only installed locally? pomegranate?
09:17	dysfun	roelof: you have the arguments the wrong way around
09:17	joegallo	agarman: installed locally in your .m2?
09:17	agarman	yes,
09:17	roelof	dysfun: what do you mean ?
09:17	dysfun	roelof: you executed (mod 4 400), not mod (400 4)
09:17	agarman	joegallo: have a java project that only installs local and want to pull it in as a dependency, but lein & alembic can't find
09:18	roelof	dysfun: thanks, I will change it
09:18	joegallo	agarman: then something is slightly off, leiningen is totally cool with local only stuff in your .m2 -- i think
09:19	joegallo	(i've used it for testing new versions of things in development across different projects, for instance)
09:20	agarman	yeah, I'll fiddle some more with groupids etc
09:24	agarman	joegallo: needed to add :extension "pom" to dependency
09:24	agarman	(inc joegallo)
09:24	lazybot	⇒ 5
09:28	roelof	dysfun: thanks, finally get this one working
09:28	roelof	any midje expert here ?
09:39	roelof	Can I somehow test only 1 function with midje instead of the whole namespace which happens with lein midje ???
09:39	lazybot	roelof: How could that be wrong?
09:41	roelof	I do not understand the answer which lazybof gives. What is wrong with my question ?
09:41	llasram	Does lazybot give a silly response to questions with lots of question marks???
09:41	lazybot	llasram: Yes, 100% for sure.
09:42	roelof	llasram: thanks
09:42	llasram	roelof: With an editor-connected REPL you can send the form for just one test to be run
09:43	llasram	The Emacs midje extension has/had explicit support for that
09:43	llasram	Running just one test e.g. from the command line is pretty much impossible though
09:43	llasram	The fundamental mode of midge is that it runs tests at what is normally Clojure "compile time"
09:43	roelof	oke, I wokr now with codio.com so I do not think they have a editor connected repl
09:43	llasram	Which is one reason that I dislike it
09:44	llasram	(midje, not codio.com -- no idea what the latter even is)
09:44	roelof	llasram: thanks for the answer. Codio.com is a online solution to work with clojure
09:55	puredanger	martinklepsch: on your pipeline-async thing, it's important that you conform to the doc sentence: "The presumption is that af will return immediately, having launched some asynchronous operation (i.e. in another thread) whose completion/callback will manipulate the result channel." - are you?
09:56	zot	anybody have a suggestion for a more idiomatic-yet-clean way to do this? https://gist.github.com/anonymous/3d335b876c7303d9e687
09:57	zot	i did it with reduce and an anon function over [:a :b :c], but it wasn't very readable, imo, seeking something better. (this is a toy example, of course… longer list in real life.)
09:59	roelof	I need the help of the experts once again. What is wrong here : (defn do-a-thing [x] ( let [double_x (+ x x )] (Math/pow double_x double_x))) I see a this error message : unable to resolve symbol: x in this context
10:00	puredanger	,(defn do-a-thing [x] ( let [double_x (+ x x )] (Math/pow double_x double_x)))
10:00	clojurebot	#'sandbox/do-a-thing
10:00	BRONSA	zot: there's not something much better than (defn finish [mtrx] (reduce #(update-in % [%2] finish-child) mtrx [:a :b :c]))
10:01	puredanger	,(do-a-thing 5)
10:01	clojurebot	1.0E10
10:01	zot	BRONSA: tnx :)
10:01	BRONSA	zot: 1.7 will have `update` so you can write (update a b f) instead of (update-in a [b] f)
10:06	jonathanj	how do people do async network io with Clojure?
10:06	jonathanj	(like writing custom protocol handlers, etc.)
10:07	puredanger	jonathanj: I haven't done it, but should probably look at Netty http://netty.io/
10:09	scottj	puredanger: do you know if there has been a decision whether fastload will make it into 1.7? is there an issue I should follow?
10:09	puredanger	scottj: will not be in 1.7
10:09	scottj	ahh, bummer
10:10	puredanger	scottj: might not be in ever - it has pros and cons
10:10	puredanger	part of fastload is a class cache which is being evaluated vs Zach's patch in http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1529
10:10	BRONSA	puredanger: how about the direct stuff?
10:10	puredanger	I think one or the other of those will be in 1.7
10:11	puredanger	Bronsa: will not be in 1.7, I would consider it experimental/research atm
10:12	scottj	puredanger: is there anything in writing about the major cons of fastload?
10:13	puredanger	scottj: I have written about it here in the past. the major one is that while it makes vars faster on load, it makes them slower forever after that
10:13	BRONSA	iirc fastload was class cache + direct + lazy fn loading
10:13	BRONSA	it'd look like lazy fn loading is the problematic one
10:13	puredanger	Bronsa: no, direct is a separate thing
10:14	BRONSA	puredanger: ah, I thought direct got merged into fastload at some point
10:14	puredanger	the class cache part is just perf tuning and is independent (hence hopefully will be in 1.7)
10:14	puredanger	Bronsa: direct is a branch from fastload branch
10:14	BRONSA	puredanger: I see, my memory got messed up then
10:15	puredanger	fastload does not change usage of anything; it just affects how vars are loaded and called
10:15	csd_	Is Company mode really flakey for anyone else? Sometimes it works, othertimes it inexplicably doesn't
10:15	puredanger	direct compiles new static invocation paths and opens up many possible decision points every time you compile about whether you use static or dynamic invocation
10:16	puredanger	potentially on a per-var basis
10:16	puredanger	this has big usage ramifications in terms of what knobs you make available
10:17	puredanger	neither fastload nor direct actually made a significant difference in runtime performance though for most stuff I tested with
10:17	BRONSA	I'd have thought direct would have a significant impact
10:17	puredanger	you would think so
10:17	puredanger	but most hot cpu loops typically don't have var invocation in them anyways
10:19	puredanger	direct doesn't affect protocol invocation either as that's a different path
10:19	BRONSA	right
10:20	puredanger	I think Ghadi's experiments with indy are far more interesting - they have the potential to get the benefits of both fastload and direct without most of their costs
10:20	scottj	puredanger: do you have a link to this?
10:20	puredanger	to what?
10:21	scottj	ghadi's experiments with indy
10:21	puredanger	he's doing a talk at the conj, not sure if he's written anything up anywhere
10:21	scottj	ok
10:21	puredanger	I've mostly just talked to him about it
10:22	puredanger	I gave him some invocation benchmarks I've used and he's seeing good numbers
10:22	scottj	fwiw on startup speeds for hello worlds I saw time decrease to 1/2 or 1/3 of normal with fastload.
10:22	BRONSA	puredanger: speaking about callpaths, I don't recall if I opened a ticket about that but the compiler generates an unused method for every fn w/ keyword-invokes
10:22	BRONSA	ah I did
10:22	BRONSA	http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1351
10:23	puredanger	scottj: I did not find anything close to that with real programs
10:23	puredanger	Bronsa: yeah, I did my part on that, Rich has never looked at it
10:27	puredanger	scottj: fastload makes every var invocation about 50% slower (post-inlining) for the rest of the time your program runs too. You mostly won't notice that as it's rarely the bottleneck but kinda sucks
10:28	alexherbo2	Hi
10:31	puredanger	indy has support for switchpoint method handles so you can delay loading on invocation, then switch to the new path without the check after it's loaded, which gives you the deferred loading + avoid the cost of the check after load
10:31	BRONSA	that's nice
10:32	EvanR_	its a beautiful day in the neighborhood
10:32	puredanger	Bronsa: I believe it was designed for this kind of use case
10:41	mearnsh	BRONSA: HELLO
10:45	SagiCZ1	can we dump threads in repl?
10:53	puredanger	sure
10:54	puredanger	depends on what repl of course. ctrl-\ dumps it in *nix if you're in the jvm process started from command line, but that's not going to work in many setups
10:55	puredanger	you can produce it via external means with jstack
10:56	SagiCZ1	ok
10:56	puredanger	and you can call through the jvm jmx beans too
10:58	puredanger	you can get it as data with (.dumpAllThreads (java.lang.management.ManagementFactory/getThreadMXBean) true true) - not sure what gymnastics you'd need to print that usefully though
11:00	johnwalker	ping GFREDERICKS
11:00	puredanger	(pprint (seq (.dumpAllThreads (java.lang.management.ManagementFactory/getThreadMXBean) true true)))
11:00	puredanger	does an ok job
11:00	GFREDERICKS	johnwalker: halooo
11:00	johnwalker	are you feeling uppercase today
11:01	GFREDERICKS	BRONSA started it
11:01	johnwalker	i kind of wish there were only one case
11:02	johnwalker	anyway, i wondered if you wanted me to take TCHECK-46 with TCHECK-47
11:02	GFREDERICKS	yeah I think -46 is subsumed by -47
11:02	johnwalker	ok, and i also wanted to ask if that was the right procedure in jira
11:02	johnwalker	i have never clicked the assign button
11:02	GFREDERICKS	yeah I believe so
11:02	GFREDERICKS	reid pointed it out to me after I started on it because I'm not used to paying attention
11:03	johnwalker	ahh
11:03	reiddraper	GFREDERICKS: HELLO
11:03	johnwalker	well, in that case i'd be happy if you took it
11:04	clgv	all caps day? :P
11:04	johnwalker	it's up to you. i was planning on starting today, but if you already have some work done then thats a different story
11:04	EvanR_	known fact that the romans went around yelling at each other on a regular basis
11:05	johnwalker	oh god ecci romani
11:06	CookedGryphon	ecce*
11:07	CookedGryphon	romanes eunt domus!
11:07	johnwalker	it's been a while
11:10	llasram	I wonder if Roman-era biblio-archaeologists get annoyed at people typing in whispers all the time
11:11	llasram	YOUARENTEECUMMINGSSOSPEAKUPANDSTOPUSINGTHATNEWFANGLEDPUNCTUATION
11:12	johnwalker	just check if e. e. cummings has haters
11:12	teslanick	Romans used to read everything aloud
11:12	teslanick	WHYAREYOUNOTREADINGALOUDDOYOUHAVESOMETHINGTOHIDE
11:14	llasram	teslanick: huh. TIL
11:14	llasram	/Space Between Words/ looks like an interesting read
11:21	GFREDERICKS	johnwalker: reiddraper: https://github.com/gfredericks/test.check/commit/6fbb6bcecd89817774682406ffe84e470f2ccf10
11:22	reiddraper	GFREDERICKS: much appreciated
11:22	GFREDERICKS	I don't know if I got all of them yet, I quit as soon as reid pointed out the ticket-assignment
11:23	BRONSA	GFREDERICKS: it's capslock day!
11:25	GFREDERICKS	https://twitter.com/timbaldridge/status/524904211037683712
11:26	johnwalker	nice
11:26	johnwalker	what is line 467 ?
11:28	GFREDERICKS	johnwalker: I guess I quit in the middle of a line
11:29	johnwalker	the only one that i notice missing is sample-seq
11:29	GFREDERICKS	reiddraper: I converted a (def ... (partial ...)) to a (defn ...) so I could have more consistent error reporting
11:29	GFREDERICKS	johnwalker: that one doesn't have the delayed-error problem though does it?
11:30	johnwalker	i'm not sure.
11:30	reiddraper	GFREDERICKS: no argument here
11:34	GFREDERICKS	there are a lot of three-letter acronyms without wikipedia pages
12:01	justin_smith	technomancy: I found this image, and am convinced you will find many an amusing context to invoke it http://i.imgur.com/MdbUlkO.png
12:02	EvanR_	is there a update-in that does not create a key if it isnt there already
12:02	SagiCZ1	can i make a string literal containing double quotes?
12:02	EvanR_	,"\"\""
12:02	llasram	&"\"sure\""
12:02	lazybot	⇒ "\"sure\""
12:02	clojurebot	"\"\""
12:03	justin_smith	EvanR_: not that I know of, but you can make something with the help of contains?
12:03	SagiCZ1	and if i didnt want to use the backshlash?
12:03	llasram	EvanR_: What would it return in the non-extant case?
12:03	mdrogalis	EvanR_: I don't think so, no.
12:03	EvanR_	llasram: it would return the original map
12:03	EvanR_	justin_smith: ok
12:03	SagiCZ1	,\"
12:03	clojurebot	\"
12:03	llasram	EvanR_: Hmm. Sounds like a good source of bugs to me :-)
12:04	BRONSA	EvanR_: get-in is probably going to be more useful than contains? in this case
12:04	technomancy	justin_smith: <3
12:04	BRONSA	you can (get-in my-map [p a t h] ::not-found) but you can't (contains? my-map p a t h)
12:05	EvanR_	sounds good to me
12:07	EvanR_	"adjust-in"
12:08	SagiCZ1	EvanR_: can i somehow quote the entire string? tell the reader that this string will contain some double quotes and ignore them?
12:08	SagiCZ1	,<special_symbol>"ignore " the " inner " quotes " please "
12:08	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: <special_symbol> in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
12:09	EvanR_	!"what language is this"!
12:09	llasram	SagiCZ1: If you're looking for something like a here-doc or Python's """-quoted strings, I am afraid you are out-of-luck
12:09	llasram	SagiCZ1: You can always `slurp` in an external resource file though
12:09	EvanR_	theres no reader macro for this?
12:09	SagiCZ1	thats too bad
12:10	llasram	No
12:10	llasram	You could hack one in by modifying the reader's syntax table, but that is "frowned upon"
12:10	EvanR_	the only issue with get-in and update-in so far are they nil may mean the key was not there, or it did and the value is nil
12:11	technomancy	ugh nil =\
12:11	justin_smith	EvanR_: my attempt at update-in only if already present https://www.refheap.com/92164
12:12	llasram	EvanR_: You can provide default value to `get-in`, but yeah -- not `update-in`. With the latter you generally only allow `nil` for not-found and wrap the update function in `fnil`
12:12	llasram	But doing something explicitly monoidal would definitely be nicer for some things
12:12	EvanR_	justin_smith: i see, so it somehow checks that the key is there
12:13	andyf	llasram: is someone particular being quoted in "frowned upon" ?
12:13	EvanR_	llasram: what default value would help?
12:13	noonian	,(get-in {:foo nil} [:foo] :not-found)
12:13	clojurebot	nil
12:14	justin_smith	EvanR_: that the "place" of the final key is there, and that place is associative so that you can even do lookup on it
12:14	llasram	andyf: Nah, I was being jokey. I mean, it's more "so crazy no one has done it except to show that it can be done and anyone who did do it in a library would be shunned"
12:14	llasram	(imho)
12:14	arrdem	BRONSA: you're capital today?
12:15	BRONSA	arrdem: capslock day
12:15	EvanR_	noonian: should work, most of the time
12:15	justin_smith	arrdem: it's caps lock day. This is an important part of our culture.
12:15	justin_smith	END THE WAR ON CAPS LOCK DAY
12:15	arrdem	oh. right. PLT_HULK must be going nuts
12:15	llasram	EvanR_: Well, if the update function were treated as an explicit monoid, attempting to add an absent value would first call it's 0-arity version get the identity value
12:15	noonian	EvanR_: yeah looking at the source it calls seq on it and goes through the k,v pairs
12:15	llasram	EvanR_: If that's what you were asking?
12:15	technomancy	"I don't have a caps lock key you insensitive clod"
12:15	arrdem	^ that
12:15	arrdem	I just have a spare control key
12:15	llasram	Me too :-(
12:16	EvanR_	llasram: nope
12:17	EvanR_	:not-found is what i was looking for
12:17	llasram	Ah
12:17	llasram	Oh, yeah I meant "default return value if not found"
12:17	llasram	Which may be a bit of a stretch :-)
12:19	EvanR_	this is what i have http://lpaste.net/113034
12:19	EvanR_	not really par with std lib but good enough
12:20	BRONSA	EvanR_: (m) doesn't really make sense to me
12:20	clojurebot	excusez-moi
12:20	EvanR_	,(m)
12:20	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: m in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
12:20	BRONSA	EvanR_: also I'd prefer ::not-found instead of :not-found
12:21	arrdem	oh we're namespace qualifying trash values now?
12:21	BRONSA	EvanR_: you're invoking your map with no args, that should be `m` not `(m)`
12:21	BRONSA	::arrdem
12:21	arrdem	why not just have done with it and use a full contract...
12:21	justin_smith	,({}) ; this is what (m) in your code does
12:21	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (0) passed to: PersistentArrayMap>
12:21	justin_smith	EvanR_: ^^
12:21	EvanR_	ah, i really wrote that
12:22	EvanR_	,::not-found
12:22	clojurebot	:sandbox/not-found
12:22	EvanR_	,:::not-found
12:22	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Invalid token: :::not-found>
12:22	EvanR_	two colons ?
12:22	justin_smith	EvanR_: it's a shortcut for namespaced keywords
12:22	EvanR_	man
12:23	justin_smith	EvanR_: which helps ensure you are not shadowing the same keyword used for a different purpose
12:23	EvanR_	this is a lot of work for a get-in that returns an option type or something
12:24	BRONSA	I wouldn't call a 2-line function a lot of work
12:24	arrdem	"line"
12:24	arrdem	challenge accepted
12:24	EvanR_	was talking about namespaced keywords to interpret whether a map has a key
12:25	justin_smith	EvanR_: mental work, sure, but it's a one-time cost if you plan on using clojure again :)
12:26	EvanR_	my function works, though im unsure on the exact semantics of the ::not-found value
12:26	arrdem	&(get {} :foo ::not-found)
12:26	lazybot	⇒ :clojure.core/not-found
12:26	EvanR_	does it have the same problem, map happens to contain the value ::not-found
12:26	BRONSA	EvanR_: you just need to get used to it, it gets obvious once you see it enough times :)
12:26	arrdem	if you ever (assoc ::not-found), wtf m8
12:27	justin_smith	EvanR_: sure, but someone in a namaspace other than yours using a keyword in your namespace is asking for trouble anyway
12:27	BRONSA	EvanR_: sure but the probability of somebody sticking in a map :not-found vs :your.namespace/not-found is different
12:27	EvanR_	alright then...
12:27	EvanR_	so we cut the probability in half
12:27	EvanR_	good stuff
12:27	justin_smith	"half"
12:27	BRONSA	EvanR_: if you want to be 100% sure that function will work even if your users are assholes, use a sentinel value
12:28	justin_smith	::not-found, in any namespace other than yours, is not equal to ::not-found in your namespace
12:28	BRONSA	(let [sentinel (Object.) value (get-in m path sentinel)] (if (identical? value sentinel) ..))
12:28	EvanR_	.oO(method to check if a key exists in a map or not)
12:28	jonathanj	is there an IRC channel for aleph and so forth?
12:28	justin_smith	EvanR_: that's contains?
12:28	jonathanj	i'm apparently missing something crucial with aleph.tcp.client
12:28	EvanR_	justin_smith: ah ok
12:29	justin_smith	EvanR_: as seen in my paste prior
12:29	EvanR_	yeah yours probably is better
12:29	jonathanj	the wiki talks about `tcp-client`: https://github.com/ztellman/aleph/wiki/TCP
12:29	BRONSA	EvanR_: the issue w/ contains? is that it only works on a single level, not on multiple level paths like get-in/update-in
12:29	justin_smith	EvanR_: the check for ILookup is because contains? errors on things you can't lookup on
12:29	justin_smith	BRONSA: I address this in the code I am referencing
12:30	EvanR_	still seems more solid
12:31	BRONSA	justin_smith: yeah but it's a lot more work than using get-in w/ not-found value
12:32	EvanR_	i was initially going to be ok with a crap value being now impossible to use in a map, but if im going to start splitting improbabilities, ill just do it right
12:32	justin_smith	https://www.refheap.com/92164 updated. BRONSA: a lot more?
12:35	EvanR_	justin_smith: you have literal tabs in your code?
12:35	EvanR_	or is that just the pastebin
12:36	justin_smith	EvanR_: odd, whitespace-mode doesn't show any tabs
12:37	justin_smith	EvanR_: I don't see tabs in my original code, or in copy pasting from my code back into my editor
12:37	BRONSA	justin_smith: ok, I was unfair
12:37	EvanR_	must be my
12:37	technomancy	justin_smith: check whitespace-style
12:38	justin_smith	technomancy: is that from a package?
12:38	technomancy	no, it's a builtin defvar
12:38	justin_smith	ahh, right
12:38	technomancy	defcustom
12:38	dagda1_	can anyone help me out with my understanding of this generic consume function https://github.com/suprematic/ascent.repl/blob/master/src/cljs/cdtrepl/util.cljs#L12. I can't quite work out what the kill channel is for
12:38	EvanR_	it obviously has no tabs in the pastebin, its a weird quirk of my vim setup
12:39	dagda1_	my idea of what a kill channel was is one where I destroy existing channels
12:39	justin_smith	technomancy: I just periodically turn on whitespace-mode and fix things that are red or yellow
12:40	dagda1_	or maybe it just avoids the channel being null
12:40	llasram	justin_smith: Just leave it on all the time. It's a great way to be constantly slightly annoyed at other people.
12:40	justin_smith	llasram: hah
12:40	justin_smith	dagda1_: a kill channel is a channel that kills you
12:40	justin_smith	also known as a poison channel
12:42	justin_smith	dagda1_: in that context, you can see that any input from the kill-ch will make the loop fail to recur
12:42	dagda1_	justin_smith: ha and kill the channel
12:42	justin_smith	no, kill the go loop
12:43	justin_smith	the channel is fine (though likely soon to be collected)
12:43	dagda1_	justin_smith: so I would stil need to call close! to destroy the channel
12:43	justin_smith	or just don't hold onto it
12:43	justin_smith	gc
12:44	dagda1_	justin_smith: I'm trying to come up with the best plan for killing channels in clojurescript.
12:44	justin_smith	dagda1_: put a nil value in it
12:44	justin_smith	this kills the channel
12:44	hashpuppy	i'm looking at some clojurescript code and i see (map (constantly true)) being passed to an arglist, where it is consumed with let [out (apply async/chan 1 args)]. i'm trying to figure out what's going on. is (map (constantly true)) returning a partially applied function? but when i key that into the clojure repl i get an error saying wrong number of args were passed. is this something clojurescript specific? or what's going on?
12:45	dagda1_	justin_smith: I thought close! kills the channel
12:45	justin_smith	hashpuppy: it's a clojure 1.7 thing
12:46	dagda1_	justin_smith and it would not be GC'd unless close! was called
12:46	hashpuppy	thanks, justin. so what's being returned there?
12:46	justin_smith	dagda1_: I'll have to let someone else weigh in on that
12:46	justin_smith	hashpuppy: a reducer
12:46	justin_smith	*transducer
12:46	justin_smith	sorry
12:46	dagda1_	justin_smith: thanks
12:46	hashpuppy	oh... ok. thanks
12:47	EvanR_	i didnt know you could do (map f) by itself
12:47	hashpuppy	how are you guys installing clojurescript on a mac? with brew? or just via source?
12:47	EvanR_	i have (partial map f) over here in a lot of places
12:47	noonian	EvanR_: thats new with transducers
12:47	hashpuppy	i meant clojure
12:47	justin_smith	hashpuppy: don't install clojure, install lein
12:47	noonian	hashpuppy: if you have clojure installed you just list clojurescript as a dependency in project.clj
12:48	justin_smith	noonian: need lein for project.clj
12:48	noonian	hashpuppy: and when i say have clojure installed i really mean leiningen
12:48	noonian	justin_smith: :)
12:48	hashpuppy	so i have lein installed. how do i update clojure to 1.7. it's on 1.6
12:49	virmundi	Hello, when using fixtures in clojure, is it encumbant upon the fixture to try/finally around the function passed in to make sure the cleanup occurs.
12:49	justin_smith	hashpuppy: in project.clj, you should see a clojure dep
12:49	noonian	if you create a project, just change the version on the clojure dependency in project.clj; if you don't have a project yet type 'lein new my-project' to get one
12:49	justin_smith	hashpuppy: you can update that to a 1.7 version
12:50	EvanR_	justin_smith: your function cleaned up a lot of my code and the output, thx
12:50	justin_smith	np
12:50	hashpuppy	ok, so silly question. i have (def x (map (constantly true))) how can i apply a list to that? (x [1 2 3])???
12:50	lazybot	hashpuppy: Oh, absolutely.
12:51	noonian	in this case lazybot is right
12:51	justin_smith	,(sequence (map (constantly true)) [1 2 3]) ;; hashpuppy:
12:51	clojurebot	(true true true)
12:51	noonian	er
12:51	BRONSA	EvanR_: (map f) is not (partial map f)
12:52	EvanR_	,((map (constantly true)) [false false false])
12:52	clojurebot	#<core$map$fn__4341$fn__4342 clojure.core$map$fn__4341$fn__4342@1695c8c>
12:52	EvanR_	,((partial map (constantly true)) [false false false])
12:52	clojurebot	(true true true)
12:52	BRONSA	EvanR_: read the docstring for map, (map f) returns a transducer
12:52	EvanR_	ah
12:53	BRONSA	EvanR_: a transducer can be passed to transduce/sequence/into/chan and a bunch of other functions
12:53	BRONSA	EvanR_: a lot of sequence functions now can return a transducer in their n-1 arity but don't confuse that with partial application
12:53	Balveda	Anyone run a Hoplon app on a server?
12:55	EvanR_	when everything is something, nothing is obviously wrong ;)
12:55	hashpuppy	so feeding the transducer into sequence turns it into a sequence?
12:56	justin_smith	,(doc sequence)
12:56	clojurebot	"([coll] [xform coll] [xform coll & colls]); Coerces coll to a (possibly empty) sequence, if it is not already one. Will not force a lazy seq. (sequence nil) yields (), When a transducer is supplied, returns a lazy sequence of applications of the transform to the items in coll(s), i.e. to the set of first items of each coll, followed by the set of second items in each coll, until any one of the co...
12:56	justin_smith	I probably would have named that something dumb like transmap or mapduce
12:57	BRONSA	hashpuppy: it turns it into a lazy sequence, if you don't want the lazy behaviour you can use (into [] x [1 2 3])
12:57	hashpuppy	thanks
12:58	EvanR_	mapdeuce
13:05	EvanR_	in doc strings can i highlight a variable name
13:05	justin_smith	EvanR_: it's just a string, there is no formatting layer defined
13:06	EvanR_	whats the convention for talking about the params
13:06	justin_smith	I mean you can put html in there if you want, but people don't have an html renderer attached
13:06	EvanR_	gross
13:06	EvanR_	looks like it starts with an arity list
13:07	EvanR_	(gross: html)
13:07	justin_smith	that's something the clojure.repl/doc function throws in there yeah
13:07	puredanger	you can override that with meta
13:07	justin_smith	so you can refer to parameters by the same name they are named in the args list, and that context will be present
13:08	justin_smith	puredanger: yeah, that too
13:08	EvanR_	in vim, is there a combo for "enclose selection in quotes"
13:09	justin_smith	EvanR_: this is worth figuring out, but a bit weird at first https://github.com/vim-scripts/paredit.vim
13:09	justin_smith	structural editing
13:10	EvanR_	im using vim-sexp at the moment
13:10	justin_smith	ok, it likely has a command for what you are describing, or at least a very concise way to do it
13:10	EvanR_	nah
13:11	EvanR_	only for ( [ {
13:11	EvanR_	so maybe i picked the wrong horse
13:13	EvanR_	and now i get to either convert a giant map into a giant nested java object, or fiddle with existing code which applies a giant map to a preexisting java object for the same purpose
13:13	EvanR_	joy
13:37	justin_smith	EvanR_: for what consumer?
13:38	EvanR_	im using camel
13:40	justin_smith	EvanR_: have you seen this? http://codeabout.blogspot.com/2010/06/using-apache-camel-from-clojure.html
13:41	justin_smith	or even this - https://github.com/hmanish/clj-camel
13:42	EvanR_	good to know
13:45	CookedGryphon	does anyone know why the buffer protocol in core.async changed from full? remove! add!, to full? remove! add!*
13:47	EvanR_	justin_smith: i am having some difficulty getting a trace of intermedia values between elements in a -> macro
13:48	justin_smith	(doc doto)
13:48	clojurebot	"([x & forms]); Evaluates x then calls all of the methods and functions with the value of x supplied at the front of the given arguments. The forms are evaluated in order. Returns x. (doto (new java.util.HashMap) (.put \"a\" 1) (.put \"b\" 2))"
13:48	justin_smith	,(-> 5 (doto println) inc (doto println) inc)
13:48	clojurebot	5\n6\n7
13:49	EvanR_	alrighty
13:49	justin_smith	for values of "trace" where trace = print at least :)
13:49	EvanR_	yes
13:49	technomancy	doto prn instead
13:50	justin_smith	technomancy: yeah, that is a good idea
13:50	justin_smith	(doc prn) ; for the uninitiated
13:50	clojurebot	"([& more]); Same as pr followed by (newline). Observes flush-on-newline"
13:50	justin_smith	(doc pr)
13:50	clojurebot	"([] [x] [x & more]); Prints the object(s) to the output stream that is the current value of out. Prints the object(s), separated by spaces if there is more than one. By default, pr and prn print in a way that objects can be read by the reader"
13:51	justin_smith	,(prn "hello")
13:51	clojurebot	"hello"\n
13:51	justin_smith	,(println "hello")
13:51	clojurebot	hello\n
13:51	EvanR_	i was actually going to use pprint
13:52	justin_smith	that works too :)
13:52	virmundi	What is the guidance on using function names that are in clojure.core? I want to load collections from a document db. The method name is (load [ctx]). I have (:refer-clojure :exclude load). Is this acceptable?
13:53	justin_smith	virmundi: I think it should be (:refer-clojure :exclude [load])
13:53	virmundi	Sorry, typo in the box. But is that idomatic clojure, to overload/re-reference a function from core?
13:54	justin_smith	well, I think it should be more a question of using it's name
13:54	justin_smith	since you are not modifying anything by doing that
13:54	EvanR_	what about commenting out a piece of a ->
13:54	justin_smith	and using its name is fine, but I'll probably hate you if I am reading your code and you exclude def and replace it with something totally different
13:55	justin_smith	for example
13:55	virmundi	I envision the api being (col/load [ctx])
13:55	virmundi	Go on.
13:55	justin_smith	EvanR_: #_
13:55	justin_smith	,(-> 5 #_ whatever inc)
13:55	clojurebot	6
13:55	EvanR_	i thought that made it take the value of nil
13:55	EvanR_	or thats only comment
13:56	justin_smith	virmundi: yeah, it would only be an issue if it makes your code hard to read, so you are probably fine
13:56	justin_smith	EvanR_: it means skip the next form
13:56	justin_smith	EvanR_: (comment ...) returns nil, that just makes the next thing not be in your compiled code at all
13:57	justin_smith	,(#_#_#_ it nests, too + 1 1)
13:57	clojurebot	2
13:57	justin_smith	don't do that in real code, it is evil
13:57	virmundi	Thanks
14:06	poushkar	does anybody has experience working with RoR as backend and Clojurescript + Om/Reagent as frontend? How do you set it up?
14:06	poushkar	*have
14:07	SagiCZ1	is there a better way to do this? (swap! atom #(new-value)) if i just want to set a new value to the atom?
14:07	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: reset!
14:07	SagiCZ1	thank you
14:11	EvanR_	how do i print a constant string in the middle of a ->
14:12	EvanR_	,(doc doto)
14:12	clojurebot	"([x & forms]); Evaluates x then calls all of the methods and functions with the value of x supplied at the front of the given arguments. The forms are evaluated in order. Returns x. (doto (new java.util.HashMap) (.put \"a\" 1) (.put \"b\" 2))"
14:12	GFREDERICKS	reiddraper: I wrote some documentation for my test.check fork: https://github.com/gfredericks/test.check
14:12	EvanR_	now i have no idea how doto was working with (doto pprint)
14:13	EvanR_	i think i need to eat lunch
14:13	noonian	,(-> "foo" (doto println) (str "bar"))
14:13	clojurebot	foo\n"foobar"
14:13	csd_	anyone here use the data.json package?
14:15	llasram	cheshire 4 eva
14:16	justin_smith	(inc cheshire)
14:16	lazybot	⇒ 3
14:16	mgaare	EvanR_: (-> "a" ((fn [x] (println "static string") x)))
14:17	justin_smith	mgaare: yeah, I was looking for something more concise than that...
14:18	mgaare	couldn't think of anything
14:18	justin_smith	,(-> 5 (doto ((constantly (println "OK")))) inc)
14:18	clojurebot	OK\n6
14:18	justin_smith	maybe
14:18	justin_smith	still ugly, probably merits writing an actual function
14:18	mgaare	that's a little nicer
14:19	mgaare	although I think the explicit function is a bit easier to follow
14:19	justin_smith	,(defn do-print [x str] (println str) x)
14:19	clojurebot	#'sandbox/do-print
14:19	justin_smith	(-> 5 (do-print "hello") inc)
14:19	justin_smith	,(-> 5 (do-print "hello") inc)
14:19	clojurebot	hello\n6
14:20	justin_smith	I think that writing that small helper function is the right way to do it
14:20	noonian	,(-> 5 (doto (do (println "a string)))
14:20	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading string>
14:20	noonian	,(-> 5 (doto (do (println "a string")))
14:20	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
14:21	noonian	,(-> 5 (doto (do (println "a string"))))
14:21	clojurebot	a string\n5
14:24	borkdude	with transducers are things like mapv now also obsolete? (into [] (map inc) (range 10)) instead of (mapv inc (range 10)) ?
14:26	sdegutis	Hi. What's a good Vim plugin for Clojure?
14:27	sdegutis	Thanks in advance, and God bless.
14:28	borkdude	sdegutis fireplace maybe?
14:28	sdegutis	borkdude: Thank you sir, I'll investigate it.
14:29	sdegutis	Oh tpope created it, who also created fugitive. Nice.
14:32	borkdude	what does it mean that a transducers is independent of its "context" (whatever in the blogpost)
14:33	puredanger	borkdude: transducer functions do not know where input values come from or where output values are going to
14:33	sdegutis	I have not looked into "transducers" yet. I heard it's the new big thing though.
14:33	puredanger	as opposed to seq functions which explicitly assemble outputs by creating new lazy seqs (for example)
14:33	borkdude	puredanger right. I sensed that "independent of input" and "independent of whatever" were overlapping
14:34	sdegutis	Is http://clojure.org/transducers the best way to get started?
14:34	puredanger	sdegutis: I think watching Rich's talk that's linked there is a very good intro to the ideas
14:35	puredanger	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mTbuzafcII
14:35	sdegutis	Are transducers worth learning for someone who reluctantly uses Clojure in production and has no interest in pushing the envelop of computer science?
14:35	CookedGryphon	sdegutis: totally
14:36	CookedGryphon	they make so much stuff easier in my day to day work
14:36	CookedGryphon	and faster as an added bonus
14:36	puredanger	borkdude: re mapv, that example is probably one where the into version may be faster esp if you are composed with other ops
14:37	borkdude	puredanger will mapv be rewritten using a transducer then
14:37	puredanger	dunno, there are many questions like that still to be answered in the future
14:37	puredanger	at the moment, transducers are almost entirely additive - they don't change the behavior of stuff that already exists, just add new capabilities
14:38	borkdude	puredanger were things like transducers and core.async more or less planned, or happy accidents that make clojure even cooler?
14:39	puredanger	transducers were a result of the work done in reducers and the (re-)work being done in core.async that led to the idea of factoring those parts out of applying transformations
14:41	borkdude	CookedGryphon how does it make stuff easier?
14:41	CookedGryphon	composability
14:42	CookedGryphon	being able to combine bits of operations together in different ways
14:42	CookedGryphon	I make use of core.async a lot, and it's meant I can just get rid of 90% of my go loops
14:43	CookedGryphon	I just pipe things about with transforms, which are composable, when go-loops are hideously boilerplatey
14:43	puredanger	CookedGryphon: are you using the new pipeline fns?
14:43	CookedGryphon	not yet, it's possible I should be
14:44	borkdude	puredanger what are the new pipeline fns?
14:44	CookedGryphon	but I wasn't sure how stateful transducers would behave given that parallelism seems obligatory
14:44	puredanger	borkdude: https://clojure.github.io/core.async/#clojure.core.async/pipeline
14:44	CookedGryphon	so I just stuck to chans with xforms and old fashioned pipe for now
14:44	borkdude	CookedGryphon do you also "return" transducers from functions where you would return a lazy sequence before?
14:45	CookedGryphon	borkdude: yeah, that sort of thing
14:45	CookedGryphon	again it's biggest win is in core.async
14:45	CookedGryphon	meant I could take the core.async :require out of a lot of namespaces entirely
14:45	CookedGryphon	they just return the transformation that they were doing in a go loop before
14:46	CookedGryphon	and as a bonus, testing is ridiculously simple, I just apply the same transform to a coll in, coll out
14:46	CookedGryphon	as opposed to nasty test setups where I'd need to make chans, onto-chan my data, then read the data back out and see if it was doing the right thing
14:48	borkdude	CookedGryphon ah right, you can unit test without using core.async
14:48	CookedGryphon	precisely
14:50	CookedGryphon	so yeah, totally worth it, and really not complicated. Use them about as much as normal function composition...
14:50	technomancy	is there any benefit vs normal composition if you're not using core.async?
14:50	technomancy	other than speed
14:51	CookedGryphon	and memory usage
14:51	puredanger	less gc, faster, clearer separation of algorithm
14:51	mgaare	debuggability perhaps
14:52	borkdude	mgaare I don't see how this helps debuggability, I would say the opposite, because it's more difficult to inspect the intermediate stuff with println for example?
14:52	hiredman	technomancy: benefit to transducers?
14:52	technomancy	to me it kinda sounds like core.async has created its own world where different rules apply, and this feels like a workaround for that
14:52	technomancy	hiredman: yeah
14:52	mi6x3m	hey clojure, if I have something like (let [x y z w] [1 2 (throw blabla) 4] will the bindings up to z be established ?
14:52	hiredman	technomancy: yeah, lots
14:52	mi6x3m	is this behaviour even defined?
14:52	puredanger	there are more pert-related improvements coming as well that aren't in 1.7 bucket http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1499 http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1515 for example
14:53	mgaare	borkdude: To be more precise, I was really thinking of stacktraces not containing n-levels of lazy seqs
14:54	CookedGryphon	technomancy: map/reducing over collections that are bigger than memory is useful
14:54	hiredman	technomancy: tranducers can avoid lots of extra overhead
14:54	technomancy	CookedGryphon: it sounds like you're just using different words to say "performance" over and over =)
14:55	amalloy	mi6x3m: do you mean (let [[x y z w] [1 2 (throw) 4]])?
14:55	CookedGryphon	:P well is performance such a bad thing?
14:55	mi6x3m	amalloy: mmm, yep
14:55	hiredman	technomancy: have you looked at reducers at all? how reducers get subsumed in to transducers seems to be up in the air, but the reducers work provides for a very compeling way to handle resources
14:56	puredanger	I do not expect that reducers will be subsumed into transducers
14:56	technomancy	CookedGryphon: I didn't say it was bad; I was asking if performance is the main point
14:56	hiredman	puredanger: oh, really?
14:56	CookedGryphon	technomancy: but I don't even mean reduced overhead when I'm talking about bigger than memory, I'm talking about being able to map+reduce over a collection where the source data is bigger than you could fit in ram
14:56	puredanger	technomancy: I think the main point is separating transformation from application
14:56	CookedGryphon	which is an entirely new thing, not just a performance improvement
14:56	amalloy	mi6x3m: have you tried macroexpanding that? it's pretty clear what happens, really
14:56	hiredman	puredanger: why not?
14:57	CookedGryphon	and that's a practical limit that I have hit before, which even reducers couldn't cope with
14:58	puredanger	I don't think they'll be removed but I don't think there will be attempts made to retrofit it in any way. it's more likely that we will gain new core functions that use transducers in parallel (i.e. preduce) that leverage the same underlying FJ fold over vectors/maps
14:58	hiredman	ok
14:58	hiredman	subsumed rich style
14:58	puredanger	:)
14:58	technomancy	CookedGryphon: you can already map and reduce over collections bigger than your memory can hold though.
15:00	CookedGryphon	not so, certainly not in a composable way. Say you want to get a line-seq on a 400gb file, split the line into words, concatenate that into a list of all the words, filter from a list of stop words and then track the frequencies of the remaining words
15:00	sdegutis	go on
15:01	hiredman	technomancy: how do you create a for comprehension over the results of two sql queries that don't fit in memory?
15:01	hiredman	with lazy-seqs it is hard because you don't just have the lazy seq, you have some database connection resources to manage
15:02	hiredman	technomancy: like, if you (with-query-results ...) whatever you get a lazy seq of results, but those are only valid for the life time of the result set, so if you haven't forced it before you leave the with-query-results the seq isn't valid
15:03	technomancy	sure
15:03	hiredman	technomancy: I am using that particular api as an example of resource management around collections
15:03	hiredman	(not claiming it is great or anything)
15:03	CookedGryphon	with transducers, you can do that as a (transduce (comp (mapcat tokens) (filter stop-words)) add-word-to-count (line-seq file)) and it won't hold the head of the seq
15:03	CookedGryphon	and I just plain couldn't do it before, try as i might
15:04	hiredman	so (for [x (with-query-results ...) y (with-query-results ...)] [x y]) is going to fail, unless you force the results inside the with-query-results
15:04	hiredman	but for the sake of argument your result set is to large to fit in memory
15:04	hiredman	so you can't
15:04	CookedGryphon	without writing the whole thing as a single reduce with no mapping, but that changes the problem, and you're basically reimplementing what transducers do under the hood anyway, so it may as well be readable
15:05	hiredman	with the reducers library you can formulate something that does that
15:06	technomancy	so it helps with managing scopes of resources
15:06	hiredman	sure
15:06	hiredman	http://ce2144dc-f7c9-4f54-8fb6-7321a4c318db.s3.amazonaws.com/reducers.html#sec-2-2
15:08	hiredman	now the reducers library is not the same thing as this new transducer stuff, but it seems like transducers will be superset of reducers functionality
15:08	hiredman	(even if the reducers namespace sits around for all time and #clojure has to constantly explain to people thay they should be using transducers instead)
15:08	puredanger	:)
15:09	technomancy	like clojure.core/partition
15:09	technomancy	or clojure.core/list?
15:09	hiredman	exactly
15:09	hiredman	also filter
15:09	hiredman	err
15:09	hiredman	flatten
15:09	puredanger	whew, I thought I was behind :)
15:10	llasram	hiredman: As the face of reducers for resource-management, you may appreciate this: https://gist.github.com/llasram/e75c6bbd9b8567e96681
15:11	hiredman	llasram: the irony is whene I tried to bring in reducers for resource management at work it got rejected on code review
15:11	llasram	whaaaa
15:11	hiredman	very conservative organization
15:11	llasram	It's such a great pattern though.
15:12	llasram	Also "very conservative" :: "using Clojure"
15:12	hiredman	well, we've been using clojure since before 1.x was released, so continuing to use clojure is a conservative choice :)
15:13	llasram	Fair enough!
15:13	hiredman	uh, actually
15:13	hiredman	technomancy: is that right? since before 1.x was released? I don't remember
15:13	technomancy	hiredman: yeah totes
15:14	technomancy	nov 2008 was when I started; right when AOT and atoms were added
15:14	GFREDERICKS	which have a lot of letters in common
15:14	GFREDERICKS	smoat
15:14	TimMc	Are we doing uppercase names today?
15:15	arrdem	apparently
15:15	TIMMC	oh no it is catching
15:15	GFREDERICKS	is karma case sensitive?
15:15	GFREDERICKS	(inc TIMMC)
15:15	lazybot	⇒ 74
15:15	ARRDEM	it would seem not
15:16	GFREDERICKS	(dec TIMMC) ;; didn't earn that one
15:16	lazybot	⇒ 73
15:16	TIMMC	hiredman: Do you want typo corrections on that piece?
15:16	TIMMC	(INC GFREDERICKS)
15:16	ARRDEM	TIMMC: dude this isn't common lisp
15:20	justin_smith	(𐌶𐌽𐌺 𐍄𐍇𐌼𐌼𐌺)
15:20	GFREDERICKS	what does an upper-case paren look like
15:20	bbloom	GUYS-WHAT-IS-GOING-ON?
15:20	justin_smith	CAPS LOCK DAY
15:21	GFREDERICKS	CAPSLOCKDAY.COM
15:21	teslanick	EVERYONE KNOWS IT'S CRUISE CONTROL FOR AWESOME
15:22	GFREDERICKS	this is a pretty weird website
15:23	bbloom	i love the mobile version
15:23	bbloom	my capslock key has been ctrl for years, otherwise i'd participate
15:26	ghadishayban	puredanger: fwiw i've often wanted the fold-by-halves functionality to be independent of fork-join
15:27	ghadishayban	fold-by-halves from some ticket ... searching
15:27	ghadishayban	http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1045
15:28	ghadishayban	that way i can make an operation that's logically a fold (reduce + combine), but be invoked in a different way
15:29	ghadishayban	let's just say an asynchronous combine for the sake of example
15:29	puredanger	that's pretty cool. I don't remember seeing the ticket.
15:29	ghadishayban	i want the subdivision of a collection as the API, building foldvec on top of it specifically for FJ
15:31	ghadishayban	this is in response to the hypothetical preduce
15:32	amalloy	BBLOOM: MINE TOO. YOU GOTTA SHOW WILLING BY HOLDING DOWN SHIFT FOR EVERYHING. EXCEPT PUNCTUATION. THAT'S TRICKIER
15:32	bbloom	amalloy: i used to type D#D(_TEXTURE all the time
15:32	bbloom	drove me nuts
15:33	evindor	Hi people! IRC seems to be last resort for me. I got a problem with cljs source maps
15:33	puredanger	ghadishayban: I don't really know what shape a preduce would take
15:33	evindor	chrome shows me the source map file itself, not the source
15:34	evindor	anyone faced such an issue?
15:41	amalloy	bbloom: what made you need to type d3d9-texture?
15:42	bbloom	amalloy: i worked on lots of directx stuff
15:42	bbloom	all the damn constants were all upper case
15:42	bbloom	stuff like this: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ff471467(v=vs.85).aspx
15:43	llasram	bbloom: how do you know it's a constant if it isn't shouting at you?
15:43	bbloom	even when not typing constant names, it was shit like ID3DXFile
15:43	bbloom	which i'd surely type as ID#DXFile
15:43	bbloom	argh.
15:43	bbloom	or I'd miss a shift
15:43	bbloom	IDireT#dStateBlock9
15:44	bbloom	haunted me
15:44	bbloom	llasram: is it too late to make all the variables upper case? :-)
15:47	EvanR_	obviously variables should have names like IdIRet#DdTAT$z\%634/52345
15:48	justin_smith	EvanR_: no joke, I was talking to a guy who "solved" his clojure design issue by using gensym to create names for all his functions
15:48	bbloom	bwha?
15:48	teslanick	It solves one of those two hard problems.
15:48	teslanick	So you can focus on cache invalidation.
15:49	justin_smith	bbloom: inorite
15:50	justin_smith	bbloom: http://clojure-log.n01se.net/date/2014-10-21.html it starts up for real on the first page where he asks about AOT compiled scripts
15:52	amalloy	oh, chouser's logger is back up again? i remember it had been down for weeks at some point
15:52	GFREDERICKS	clojurebot: chouser's logger is back up again
15:52	clojurebot	Roger.
15:53	amalloy	gfredericks: you're killing me here. i refuse to acknowledge your all-caps name, which means i can't use tab completion
15:53	drbobbeaty	amalloy: He lives under a rainbow - what can you expect?
15:54	amalloy	huge backpedal from justin_smith in that log: "I have namespaces with hundreds of functions in them. [...] well, at least two"
15:54	justin_smith	heh
15:54	GFREDERICKS	amalloy: I saw puredanger do that earlier to BRONSA and wondered if it was manual
15:55	justin_smith	amalloy: at least two namespaces with hundreds of functions in them
15:56	justin_smith	amalloy: and this is in context of a dude trying to load a file where calling a function would suffice (so treating a namspace as if it were one bit function)
15:56	amalloy	yes, i remember rritoch
15:56	evindor	Does anyone have working source maps for cljs with advanced optimizations?
16:03	justin_smith	evindor: you may get more help on #clojurescript - couldn't hurt to try there if you haven't
16:03	evindor	justin_smith: thx
16:14	amalloy	shame dnolen isn't here - i can't imagine he'd settle for non-working source maps
16:15	evindor	amalloy: they are generated but i guess i have messed up paths inside it
16:16	evindor	chrome even laods it but shows the source map file itself instead of source code
16:16	amalloy	yeah, i have no idea. if i did, i'd offer help myself instead of lamenting dnolen's absence
16:17	teslanick	evindor: What's the //#sourceMapingUrl at the end of your compiled JS look like?
16:18	teslanick	And then open the map file that it points at and check the "sources" array (a sourcemap is just a JSON file)
16:18	evindor	teslanick: //# sourceMappingURL=app.min.js.map
16:19	evindor	map file itself looks okay, except it has several empty strings in sources
16:19	teslanick	Interesting. That might be the source of your problems.
16:20	teslanick	Have you tried nuking all the built cljs and rebuilding?
16:20	evindor	yeah i think so as well. sure i tried rebuilding everything
16:25	puredanger	amalloy: re earlier, dnolen is currently on tour with his band in Europe so won't be around for a while
16:25	puredanger	afaik
16:25	amalloy	unacceptable. how will cljs patches be applied without him?
16:25	puredanger	he does seem to be online occasionally doing stuff, not sure what his exact schedule is
16:26	amalloy	oh my gosh. i just had a vision of dnolen pausing mid-concert to apply a patch. he's just that committed
16:26	bbloom	heh committed, i get it
16:26	amalloy	(inc unintended-puns)
16:26	lazybot	⇒ 1
16:26	clojurebot	Titim gan éirí ort.
16:28	amalloy	what does dnolen play? i have this vague notion that it's a brass instrument of some sort but i don't know how i got that idea
16:28	bbloom	amalloy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E9TGlDxE48 south park?
16:29	amalloy	bbloom: brass, not bass
16:29	amalloy	but i don't watch south park
16:29	bbloom	amalloy: oh, reading comprehension failure
16:31	andrewhr	oh man, I didn’t know there is a clojurescript channel
16:31	andrewhr	u.u
16:38	puredanger	amalloy: See http://hairysands.bandcamp.com/album/sandy-hairs - I think he plays guitar?
16:39	puredanger	yeah, some pics here: https://twitter.com/hairysands
16:45	justin_smith	if he played keyboard, the references to patches above would be unintentional puns
16:55	danielcompton	Is there any way to convert a record to a map without altering the keys or values of the record?
16:56	technomancy	into?
16:56	clojurebot	into is like a magical transformer ring. i.e. (into {} something) converts a surprisingly wide variety of things into maps.
16:56	bbloom	,(defrecord Point [x y])
16:56	clojurebot	sandbox.Point
16:56	bbloom	,(into {} (Point. 5 10))
16:56	clojurebot	{:x 5, :y 10}
16:57	vIkSiT	hello all
16:58	vIkSiT	Im running an experiment : I have a function called myfn that takes about a second to execute. So, I run a (doseq [f files] (myfn f)) and time it.
16:58	vIkSiT	(by wrapping doseq with time)
16:58	TIMMC	Are you using criterium?
16:59	SagiCZ1	vIkSiT: yeah<
16:59	danielcompton	bbloom, technomancy: of course
16:59	TIMMC	~benchmarking
16:59	clojurebot	benchmarking is https://github.com/hugoduncan/criterium
16:59	vIkSiT	Now, I try a (map myfn (partition-all n files))
16:59	vIkSiT	I'd like to figure out how to measure times in this case.
16:59	SagiCZ1	vIkSiT: me too
16:59	TIMMC	doall
16:59	justin_smith	vIkSiT: use criterium
16:59	TIMMC	or dorun, I guess
16:59	vIkSiT	(And ideally, Id like to figure out how to use pmap)
17:00	vIkSiT	ah
17:04	vIkSiT	hmm, thanks for that info - I think dorun really did the trick
17:04	vIkSiT	now my follow up question :)
17:05	vIkSiT	what's a good guide to using pmap vs parallel programming using reducers?
17:05	justin_smith	~pmap
17:05	clojurebot	pmap is not what you want
17:06	vIkSiT	justin_smith, hehe - well
17:06	vIkSiT	I'm not quite going to start using a 1000 node MR cluster just yet..
17:06	SegFaultAX	Oh pmap. The function we love to hate.
17:06	vIkSiT	so why all the pmap ~love?
17:06	SagiCZ1	wait whats wrong with pmap?
17:06	vIkSiT	^^ that.
17:07	SegFaultAX	The usual warning that your mapping fn better be more expensive than the coordination overhead of multiple threads.
17:07	vIkSiT	ah that
17:07	SegFaultAX	Either way, try it and test.
17:07	SagiCZ1	SegFaultAX: so? thats something u discover with one test
17:07	vIkSiT	and how does one benchmark the coordination overhead of multiple threads?
17:07	justin_smith	also, it chunks in unintuitive ways
17:07	SagiCZ1	just time pmap and time map
17:07	vIkSiT	for instance in my case, I just saw a reduction in time from 20ms -> 7ms.
17:08	justin_smith	vIkSiT: with criterium
17:08	vIkSiT	precisely - trying that now.
17:08	SegFaultAX	It's not always bad. But usally it isn't worth it for what 99% of people ask about.
17:08	SagiCZ1	i wonder why is that thread overhead so huge
17:09	SegFaultAX	SagiCZ1: It's expensive in both time and space to start up a thread pool
17:09	justin_smith	SegFaultAX: and it's rarely better than an executor with a queue (via core.async abstractions or not to taste)
17:09	vIkSiT	SagiCZ1, coordination is always going to be expensive simply becase you need to maintain a threadpool, start it up. et al
17:09	SegFaultAX	justin_smith: Precismo!
17:09	vIkSiT	justin_smith, speaking of which..
17:09	clojurebot	Pardon?
17:10	vIkSiT	is there a core.async based guide to multi-thread processing? channels, best practices, consuming, map/reduce?
17:10	SegFaultAX	Or reducers
17:10	justin_smith	vIkSiT: SagiCZ1: also, pmap ensures ordering - you can get faster results if you don't care about the ordering
17:10	SegFaultAX	I don't know if transducers have been ported to also leverage ForkJoinPool, but that.
17:10	SagiCZ1	justin_smith: how can it ensure ordering, when its parallel?
17:10	SegFaultAX	Depending on the nature of the work and the processing involved.
17:10	SegFaultAX	SagiCZ1: That's part of the coordination.
17:11	justin_smith	and part of why said coordination is expensive
17:11	SegFaultAX	SagiCZ1: But a really naive impl is to just create N futures, then map deref over them.
17:12	justin_smith	$source pmap
17:12	lazybot	pmap is http://is.gd/98SQJR
17:12	puredanger	that's all pmap is doing
17:13	justin_smith	puredanger: yeah, that was my intended point with that link :)
17:13	hiredman	well, pmap is doing weird stepping stuff
17:13	SagiCZ1	interesting......... well thats it for thinking pmap is amazing
17:13	hiredman	and pmap does weird things with chunked seqs
17:13	hiredman	etc
17:13	puredanger	pmap is perfect solution to a very narrow band of problems and pretty bad for everything else
17:14	ghadishayban	What's a favorite resource for explaining the seq/first/rest/next subtleties to a beginner?
17:14	SegFaultAX	Does transducers also already support ForkJoinPool the way reducers did?
17:14	puredanger	no
17:14	puredanger	see the back chat from the last hour or so :)
17:14	SegFaultAX	puredanger: tl;dr? :D
17:14	ghadishayban	SegFaultAX: transducers are irrespective of collection / eval strategy
17:15	puredanger	SegFaultAX: doesn't exist. but will eventually.
17:15	SegFaultAX	Sure. You might want a fjtransduce fn.
17:15	hiredman	generally for lots of these parallel things, you don't actually care about ordering, lots of the time you have an unordered bag of work you want to happen and want the result of the work as it finishes
17:15	hiredman	pmap and seqs force ordering
17:16	SegFaultAX	That's the other implicit issue with pmap. You can't represent things where ordering doesn't matter.
17:16	SegFaultAX	Yup
17:16	puredanger	async/pipeline fits in that group too
17:16	SagiCZ1	so is there some sort of doseq that lets me specify how to exactly get the next element besides loop?
17:17	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: well I guess you could reify an iterator or something...
17:17	hiredman	sure, just make sure you aren't doing io on the go block threadpool
17:17	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: but loop seems more straightforwar
17:17	SagiCZ1	loop it is then..
17:18	SegFaultAX	puredanger: In which group?
17:18	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: depending on what you are doing and how you want to view the result, there is also iterate
17:18	puredanger	the group of things that force ordering :)
17:18	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: though "sort of doseq" I guess implies not using the results
17:19	hiredman	puredanger: is that entirely true?
17:19	SegFaultAX	No.
17:19	SegFaultAX	Becuase you could use an input channel and an output channel and some number of goblocks or gothreads to read from the input channel and write to the output channel.
17:19	puredanger	hiredman: actually, I guess you're right - it produces results in an order corresponding to the inputs
17:20	puredanger	but might not actually process them in that order
17:21	SagiCZ1	i might be overthinking this.. i have a queue, and i need to write its consumer.. i get next element by (.take queue).. then i just call (consume element) .. this is how i do it https://www.refheap.com/92176 maybe it can be done better?
17:22	ghadishayban	Is there a resource like clojure.org/lazy but more current? http://clojure.org/sequences doesn't mention next vs rest.
17:22	puredanger	there is actually a dead page that talks about that
17:23	ghadishayban	I'm looking for a well-written link I can handily throw at a beginner to understand the subtleties of seq vs coll, first/rest, rest vs. next
17:23	puredanger	oh, the lazy page is what I was thinking of. I don't think there is a more current version of that but there should be
17:23	hiredman	puredanger: well that is interesting though, I didn't realize the pipelines were that strongly order preserving
17:23	SegFaultAX	So... when are we going to kill clojuredocs?
17:23	ghadishayban	yeah too much real estate devoted to how rest used to work
17:23	ghadishayban	pre-github
17:24	puredanger	hiredman: they're designed to be used for things like pipeline stages where work passes through them, so the ordering is important
17:24	hiredman	puredanger: does what it says on the tin
17:25	technomancy	SegFaultAX: just when it's sputtered back to life?
17:25	SegFaultAX	Has it?
17:26	SegFaultAX	technomancy: Wowza, that's awesome. I can't believe I didn't notice it.
17:26	puredanger	SagiCZ1: I'd prob refactor that to just have a single .take inside the loop. and you might need some kind of termination check
17:26	SagiCZ1	puredanger: thank you for having a look, how could i just have one .take call?
17:27	hiredman	I am rethinking through the sort of things I have done, that I thought pipeline was a good fit for, and I think it still is with the ordering on the final results, what matters is the free for all ordering on actual running of the jobs
17:27	puredanger	(loop [] (let [event (.take queue] (consume event) (recur))
17:27	SagiCZ1	isnt that (while true ... ?
17:27	SegFaultAX	That's why he said you need to check for termination.
17:27	puredanger	yeah, but you'll probably want some other stuff there too
17:28	puredanger	<advert>I have a section on this in my forthcoming book btw</advert>
17:28	SagiCZ1	i see
17:28	SagiCZ1	i am buying, are you selling?
17:29	SegFaultAX	puredanger: EAP?
17:29	puredanger	will be a Prag beta book soon, hopefully by the conj
17:30	puredanger	Clojure Applied
17:39	TIMMC	~books
17:39	clojurebot	books is book
17:39	TIMMC	~book
17:39	clojurebot	book is http://clojurebook.com/ http://joyofclojure.com/
17:39	TIMMC	You'll have to add to the list.
17:41	SegFaultAX	TIMMC: Why are you yelling your name at us? :D
17:42	TEttinger	SegFaultAX, why are you yelling his name?
17:43	SegFaultAX	TEttinger: Anger issues, probably.
17:45	bridgethillyer	It’s ALL CAPS DAY
17:51	SagiCZ1	any idea what could this mean? "No nREPL ack received"
17:52	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: I think that means cider
17:54	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: though if it helps, an ack is a confirmation in a communication protocol, and it sounds like something is out of sync with a clojure nrepl server (either because of a scrambled message on the line, or the nrepl having some error state)
17:54	SagiCZ1	thank you
17:54	technomancy	I think nrepl acks are sent to indicate the server is up
17:54	technomancy	so that could mean the server wasn't started successfully?
17:55	justin_smith	technomancy: it can also happen when cider fucks up the message parsing, and thus does not recognize the ack
17:55	technomancy	huh
17:55	justin_smith	when its bencode gets in a bad state or something
17:55	justin_smith	technomancy: that is, you can get an ack, but the client (cider) sometimes does not recognize it as one
17:56	SagiCZ1	its a local lein repl
17:56	technomancy	oh cider http://p.hagelb.org/sisko.gif
17:57	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: any other error output?
17:58	justin_smith	the failure to get an ack basically means the nrepl server did not confirm it was there and ready to accept evaluation requests
18:06	EvanR_	,()
18:06	clojurebot	()
18:07	EvanR_	,'()
18:07	clojurebot	()
18:07	Bronsa	,`()
18:07	clojurebot	()
18:07	Bronsa	yep still a lisp
18:07	EvanR_	,(= () '())
18:07	clojurebot	true
18:08	stuartsierra	,(= () nil)
18:08	clojurebot	false
18:10	pmonks	,(= * =)
18:10	clojurebot	false
18:10	pmonks	(sorry - couldn’t resist some rude ascii art...)
18:12	pmonks	Or is it a TIE fighter?
18:16	EvanR_	lol <- tie interceptor
18:31	TIMMC	SegFaultAX: I don't know, BRONSA started it! And then GFREDERICKS did it, and I caved to peer pressure.
18:31	TIMMC	SegFaultAX: Apparently HTTP://CAPSLOCKDAY.COM
18:33	TimMc	Maybe it is time to relax though.
18:33	Bronsa	it's no longer CAPSLOCKDAY in Italy.
18:34	justin_smith	$google is it caps lock day
18:34	lazybot	[internetonal caps lock day home page] http://capslockday.com/
18:34	justin_smith	I was hoping for a single serving site
18:39	SagiCZ1	are Italians here?
18:39	SagiCZ1	why don't we talk about food all day? i am dissapointed
18:39	EvanR_	,[1 2 3]
18:39	clojurebot	[1 2 3]
18:39	EvanR_	,'[1 2 3]
18:39	clojurebot	[1 2 3]
18:39	SegFaultAX	TimMc: Hah
18:40	EvanR_	,'[1 (+ 2 2) 3]
18:40	clojurebot	[1 (+ 2 2) 3]
18:41	justin_smith	'(just about anything goes here, really- go nuts!)
18:41	justin_smith	,'(just about anything goes here, really- go nuts!)
18:41	clojurebot	(just about anything goes here ...)
18:41	kenrestivo	hmm, this works, but it reeks of old socks and leftover lunch meat: https://www.refheap.com/92177
18:41	SagiCZ1	kenrestivo: here we go.. food
18:42	EvanR_	,''
18:42	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
18:42	justin_smith	kenrestivo: that's a pretty deep nest of anonymous functions
18:42	kenrestivo	my gawd, capslockday.com is actually a thing? that site... my eyes... myspace 2005...
18:43	noonian	kenrestivo: it might look a bit cleaner if you bound the parsed res in a let before swap, or broke it out into a helper function
18:43	kenrestivo	justin_smith: yeah, it's pretty ridiculous. i think core.async channels might be in order
18:43	justin_smith	kenrestivo: how about maybe flet?
18:43	SagiCZ1	can i create a defmethod which takes anything that couldnt be dispatched? something like default implementation
18:44	kenrestivo	flet?
18:44	justin_smith	kenrestivo: putting together an example
18:44	kenrestivo	“floor of a house; house”), from Old English flet,
18:44	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: a multi can take any function, including one that has a default
18:44	kenrestivo	and i am not going near urban dictionary on that, thankyouverymuch. it sounds filthy.
18:45	SagiCZ1	justin_smith: not sure i follow..
18:45	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: defmulti takes a dispatch function as an argument
18:45	noonian	kenrestivo: maybe something like: (swap! app-state update-in [:foo] #(merge % (parse-res res)))
18:45	SagiCZ1	so if i want default methods i can implement default dispatch in the dispatch function
18:46	SegFaultAX	kenrestivo: If it was myspace, there would have been javascript rain and a clock connected to your mouse.
18:46	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: but I take that back - really you just want to dispatch on type like normal, and then have a version for Object, probably
18:46	justin_smith	and others still work, being more specific and all
18:46	kenrestivo	noonian: good call, that fn [o] is totally superfluous
18:46	SegFaultAX	Just sayin: http://rainbow.arch.scriptmania.com/scripts/mouse_clock3.html
18:47	EvanR_	SegFaultAX: having never used myspace, this sounds rather bizarre without context
18:47	kenrestivo	forgot swap! can pass args, i'm so used to passing it anonymous fns
18:47	noonian	yeah, i forget too but it tends to clean things up when you remember :P
18:47	SagiCZ1	justin_smith: and if the dispatch value is nil, would the Object implementation take it?
18:47	SegFaultAX	EvanR_: It was a simpler time then.
18:48	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: what is your dispatch fn?
18:48	SagiCZ1	just a keyword lookup in map.. ":type"
18:48	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: then define a version for nil instead of Object
18:49	justin_smith	I had wrongly assumed you were using the "type" function
18:49	SagiCZ1	so (defmethod foo nil ?
18:49	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: yup
18:49	SagiCZ1	alright
18:49	EvanR_	and thats all i can about stand for today
18:49	noonian	SagiCZ1: you can also define an implementation for :default
18:49	justin_smith	or, instead of :type use #(get % :type :default) and then (defmethod foo :default ...)
18:49	justin_smith	yeah, what noonian said
18:50	noonian	but you don't need to supply the :default key on nil's multimethods does it for you
18:50	noonian	,(doc defmulti)
18:50	clojurebot	"([name docstring? attr-map? dispatch-fn & ...]); Creates a new multimethod with the associated dispatch function. The docstring and attribute-map are optional. Options are key-value pairs and may be one of: :default The default dispatch value, defaults to :default :hierarchy The value used for hierarchical dispatch (e.g. ::square is-a ::shape) Hierarchies are type-like relationships that do not d...
18:50	justin_smith	noonian: ahh, I had missed that subtlety, nice :)
18:51	justin_smith	(inc noonian)
18:51	lazybot	⇒ 8
18:52	noonian	:)
18:54	justin_smith	kenrestivo: a slightly silly attempt to use flet as I was suggesting https://www.refheap.com/92178
18:54	justin_smith	kenrestivo: translation likely imperfect
18:55	noonian	justin_smith: is flet new in 1.7 or something?
18:55	kenrestivo	what is this flet?
18:55	noonian	,flet
18:55	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: flet in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
18:55	justin_smith	oh crap
18:55	kenrestivo	yeh
18:55	justin_smith	letfn
18:55	amalloy_	how do i pass options to javac when running lein javac?
18:55	justin_smith	I am so silly
18:55	noonian	ahhh
18:55	justin_smith	brain fart, my bad, fixing the paste
18:56	amalloy_	flet is secret technology of the T Elves, written backwards so we won't suspect a thing
18:56	justin_smith	fixed
18:56	kenrestivo	flet! flet! flet! sounds like a large bird taking off.
18:56	noonian	lol, urban dictionary does have an entry for flet...
18:56	kenrestivo	oh, letfn, sure.
18:56	justin_smith	kenrestivo: flet is basically letfn in common lisp
18:56	kenrestivo	ok.
18:56	justin_smith	clearly I experienced a neural temporal anomoly, and/or a senior moment
18:57	kenrestivo	happens. the more languages you use, the more interference happens
18:57	noonian	ruby hashmap syntax killed me after getting used to clojure keywords
18:58	kenrestivo	i like that device tho, if there are a lot of anon fn's, namign them in a letfn cleans up the nesting
18:59	noonian	i think it also allows for mutual recursion as if you had declared them beforehand
18:59	justin_smith	kenrestivo: and as a bonus, it allows mutual recurion and inlining thanks to the scope
18:59	justin_smith	right
18:59	justin_smith	*recursion
18:59	kenrestivo	clojurebot: recursion is recursion
18:59	clojurebot	Alles klar
19:00	justin_smith	,(nth (iterate identity 'recursion) 1000000)
19:00	clojurebot	recursion
19:03	SagiCZ1	justin_smith: something very weird happens when you call (method nil "value2") .. the dispatch method skips the nil and tries to dispatch it on the "value2" ..
19:04	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: that's odd
19:04	SagiCZ1	let me try to replicate it here
19:04	SagiCZ1	,(defmulti foo :type)
19:04	clojurebot	#'sandbox/foo
19:05	SagiCZ1	,(foo nil "value")
19:05	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No method in multimethod 'foo' for dispatch value: value>
19:05	SagiCZ1	,(foo nil "second-value")
19:05	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No method in multimethod 'foo' for dispatch value: second-value>
19:05	SagiCZ1	see?
19:06	justin_smith	,(defmethod foo :default [a b] :default-value)
19:06	clojurebot	#<MultiFn clojure.lang.MultiFn@a4441a>
19:06	justin_smith	,(foo nil "value")
19:06	clojurebot	:default-value
19:06	GFREDERICKS	okay I think it's time to write hyper-shrink
19:07	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: the error message is confusing, but the behavior I show above should be fine, right?
19:07	SagiCZ1	is the :default keyword special?
19:07	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: yes, as noonian was pointing out above
19:07	justin_smith	it is the default default
19:08	justin_smith	the meta default
19:08	justin_smith	lol
19:08	SagiCZ1	i missed that
19:08	SagiCZ1	its in the defmulti doc too.. never mind .. thanks for helping me
19:08	SagiCZ1	btw that error message is terrible
19:09	justin_smith	yeah, I can't see how that would even make sense in that context at the moment
19:09	justin_smith	perhaps worthy of a bug report?
19:10	SagiCZ1	perhaps
19:10	clojurebot	Cool story bro.
19:17	justin_smith	gfredericks: wtg w/ tla research
19:18	gfredericks	justin_smith: thx
19:21	gfredericks	I'm sure everybody is itching for the raw data: http://upload.gfredericks.com/tmp/missing-tlas.clj
19:21	gfredericks	everybody pick a TLA and work on getting it into wikipedia
19:22	justin_smith	gfredericks: FUX is not taken, must find an acronym for FUX
19:22	technomancy	we can have this done by the weekend; let's get cracking people
19:23	justin_smith	TLA squatting: 1) claim TLA, 2) ??? ...
19:24	noonian	3) profit!
19:24	noonian	er, 4) i guess
19:25	SegFaultAX	gfredericks: Prismatic's pairing question?
19:25	gfredericks	is it?
19:25	SegFaultAX	I think it's one of them.
19:36	mwfogleman	i'm having troubles with the reloaded workflow -- my system.clj file is in my src/.../system.clj directory, and i can't make my users.clj find it.
19:37	noonian	(require [the.path.to.system :as system]) fails?
19:37	mwfogleman	within the ns macro, yeah.
19:37	mwfogleman	i tried doing the simplest possible case with stuart's reloaded template and i bump into the same problem
19:37	noonian	you should make sure you can do it manually first. if there is a problem with system.clj then it could block user.clj from loading
19:38	mwfogleman	oh, in the repl?
19:38	noonian	yeah
19:38	mwfogleman	good idea.
19:38	mwfogleman	i'll go try that.
19:39	noonian	also, you might want to do that user stuff in a different namespace and have a function in user.clj that calls (in-ns 'dev-ns) so that you can still get a repl up if you have errors in your code
19:41	mwfogleman	noonian: running require in the repl worked.
19:42	mwfogleman	i'm not sure i understand your suggestion.
19:42	noonian	don't worry about it for now then
19:42	noonian	maybe you don't tell clojure where your custom user.clj is in project.clj?
19:42	noonian	either in :init-ns or include the directory in source-paths in the dev profile or something
19:42	mwfogleman	it's in source-paths, that's not the problem.
19:43	mwfogleman	it's only when i try to require my own code that the compiler hits an error.
19:43	mwfogleman	i'm noticing the problem when i do lein clean; lein deps; lein compile
19:44	mwfogleman	one thing is that all the code i've tried to require is in a src/subdirectory/....file.clj
19:44	mwfogleman	whereas the user.clj is in dev/user.clj
19:45	noonian	common mistakes include using hyphens instead of underscores in your directory names
19:45	mwfogleman	in the directory name, not the require, right?
19:45	mwfogleman	the namespaces have hyphens
19:45	mwfogleman	i think the directories are all underscores
19:45	mwfogleman	let me double check
19:45	noonian	yeah, what you put in the ns form
19:46	noonian	but the ns form (with hyphens) still needs to correspond to the directory structure (with underscores)
19:46	mwfogleman	ohhh
19:46	mwfogleman	that's totally the problem. i'm inheriting the project
19:46	mwfogleman	and it has a hyphen
19:46	mwfogleman	in the directory. strange that hasn't shown up
19:46	mwfogleman	until now
19:46	noonian	inheriting?
19:46	mwfogleman	as in I have a new clojure job!
19:46	mwfogleman	:D
19:47	noonian	congrats!
19:47	mwfogleman	thanks! :)
19:47	mwfogleman	it's strange that this problem hasn't surfaced until now.
19:48	mwfogleman	noonian: do you use component and/or the reloaded workflow?
19:48	noonian	yes, although i'm not using clojure at work atm so just for personal stuff
19:49	mwfogleman	ok, ok
19:49	mwfogleman	hmm, this might not be the problem. the repo is hyphenated, not the directory.
19:49	mwfogleman	i misread the misreading :P
19:49	amalloy	mwfogleman: you shouldn't need to run clean, deps, or compile. those are all done pretty automatically. and if you really do need to run them, you can save yourself quite a bit of startup time by combining them into one lein invocation: lein do clean, deps, compile
19:49	mwfogleman	oh, boy!
19:49	mwfogleman	i know i don't need to run them regularly
19:49	mwfogleman	but that's handy shortcut, thanks
19:49	justin_smith	in particular, pretty much any task will end up invoking deps
19:50	noonian	i don't think bad code in user would mess up your lein deps at all, i just typed some junk into my user.clj and it didn't trip up leiningen
19:50	justin_smith	clean is iffier - it is sometimes needed after you update a library version in your deps for example
19:51	noonian	maybe your project depends on another project that is private to your company and you need to 'lein install' it manually?
19:51	amalloy	justin_smith: updating a library version in your deps? how does that ever need a clean?
19:52	justin_smith	amalloy: just the other day someone was getting really weird errors because they upped a lib version, after a clean the errors went away
19:52	justin_smith	iirc it was schema
19:52	mwfogleman	noonian: that second thing sounds promising
19:52	amalloy	justin_smith: well. i'm not necessarily convinced it was because they updated a lib version, so much as that it happened at the same time
19:52	mwfogleman	noonian: we have some git submodules
19:53	justin_smith	amalloy: yeah, it was piranha, they were getting schema exceptions after updating the version, they went away after running lein clean
19:53	amalloy	the main reason to need clean is if you're doing a bunch of AOT compilation and want to make sure old artifacts aren't lying around; i ended up deleting a class once, and then forgot to update the code that was using that class: the old classfile was still around, so it "worked" for days
19:53	justin_smith	amalloy: yeah, aot may have been a contributing factor there
19:54	mwfogleman	noonian: fyi, the problem isn't "bad code" in the user.clj-- there's actually nothing in there yet, really
19:54	noonian	mwfogleman: if your :dependencies vector has anything that looks like an in-house lib you should track it down and lein install it; or maybe just ask someone :P
19:54	amalloy	the main time i end up running lein deps myself is if i want to update a snapshot version: lein -U deps
19:54	noonian	mwfogleman: what error do you get?
19:55	mwfogleman	java.lang.ClassNotFoundException
19:55	mwfogleman	hmm. how do i figure out which in-house lib is the problem?
19:56	noonian	and its your system class that isn't found?
19:56	mwfogleman	no-- i don't have to be requiring the system for this error to be thrown. as best i can tell, it's any in-project, in-house code
19:56	mwfogleman	things like midje or component don't throw an error.
19:57	noonian	mwfogleman: you can look in your ~/.m2/repository to see which libs are installed are installed. if you have multiple in-house deps you will need to install all of them
19:57	noonian	i.e. cd to the project directory and type 'lein install'
19:57	ARRDEM	johnwalker: you should come lurk #clojure-social. 'tis a silly place.
19:58	mwfogleman	ok, good idea.
20:00	mwfogleman	i seem to have all the dependencies. and upon reflection they seem to be publically available, albeit developed by our folks
20:01	noonian	they need to be published to clojars or maven for lein to find them
20:01	johnwalker	hehe 7 nicks
20:01	noonian	hmm, do you have any deps or plugins in ~/.lein/profiles.clj that might be causing it?
20:02	mwfogleman	hmm. i do have a plugin: lein-midje (that's also in our project.clj dev dependency); and a dependency on tools.namespace.
20:02	mwfogleman	which the reloaded workflow requires in the project.clj.
20:02	mwfogleman	as you know
20:03	johnwalker	mwfogleman: has anyone suggested that you run lein deps :tree
20:03	noonian	well, lein deps throws an error for him
20:03	johnwalker	oh.
20:03	mwfogleman	it's actually lein compile that throws the error
20:03	mwfogleman	as best i can tell
20:04	justin_smith	mwfogleman: then it should tell your which file is causing the error - can you share the stacktrace?
20:04	mwfogleman	excerpts--- let me get it again. what am i looking for?
20:05	noonian	the file that is not found
20:05	justin_smith	mwfogleman: pastebin the whole trace
20:05	justin_smith	or I should say refheap.com it
20:08	mwfogleman	noonian: justin_smith: https://www.refheap.com/f7e08862a611525c7a24dd8d7
20:08	justin_smith	mwfogleman: there should never be a class called yeti-stack.StackPailStructure
20:08	mwfogleman	a clojure pastebin, nice :D
20:08	justin_smith	that isn't a valid class name
20:09	noonian	yeah, the underscore thing applies to class names also
20:09	mwfogleman	justin_smith: okay, that sounds promising.
20:09	justin_smith	in system_pail.clj, change any reference to yeti-stack.StackPailStructure to yeti_stack.StackPailStructure
20:10	justin_smith	noonian: we could even say that it only applies to class names, and the file name requirement is a side effect of this :)
20:10	mwfogleman	justin_smith: clever ;)
20:10	mwfogleman	i think that's coming from the namespaces
20:11	mwfogleman	oops
20:11	mwfogleman	it's not
20:11	mwfogleman	the namespaces are no problem, right?
20:11	mwfogleman	it's just hyphens elsewhere in the code
20:11	justin_smith	mwfogleman: the namespace should be called yeti-stack
20:11	justin_smith	classes defined in the namespace should be referenced as yeti_stack.*
20:11	mwfogleman	i have a line like this in the ns macro: (:import [yeti-stack StackPailStructure])
20:12	noonian	if you're importing anything they need underscores
20:12	justin_smith	change that to (yeti_stack StackPailStructure)
20:12	mwfogleman	ok, imports need underscores.
20:12	mwfogleman	i'm thinking this is probably going to need changes in more than one place
20:12	mwfogleman	thanks for helping me track this down, justin_smith and noonian.
20:13	justin_smith	mwfogleman: yeah, you may just want to grep for :import :) emacs has a wonderful M-x rgrep that lets you jump to each usage with a mouse click
20:13	noonian	np, happy coding!
20:13	mwfogleman	justin_smith: nice, i'll do that :D
20:14	justin_smith	mwfogleman: glad I could help, this stuff is hard the first 100 times or so, but eventually the heuristics are second nature :)
20:14	mwfogleman	justin_smith: glad to hear that.
20:14	justin_smith	we should do an "interpret clojure stacktraces as a service" startup
20:14	mwfogleman	haha, totally.
20:15	mwfogleman	i'm getting better at picking out the important parts.
20:15	justin_smith	yeah, it's a kind of literacy basically
20:16	justin_smith	my big hint this time: CamelCase means java level stuff, which means you need _ instead of -
20:16	justin_smith	so - with CamelCase was a red flag
20:16	mwfogleman	okay, good hint.
20:17	andyf	mwfogleman: Eastwood should help you find such namespace/file name mismatches. github.com/jonase/Eastwood
20:17	andyf	Among other issues
20:17	mwfogleman	andyf: i've been meaning to check that out for a while. thanks for the reminder.
20:19	andyf	I had the weirdest time testing Eastwood on projects with such mismatches before putting that check in. Adding it was a sanity-preserver
20:25	mwfogleman	justin_smith: does this look problematic to you?: (gen-structure yeti_stack.StackPailStructure
20:25	mwfogleman	erm
20:25	mwfogleman	(gen-structure yeti-stack.StackPailStructure
20:25	mwfogleman	which is better? ;)
20:30	justin_smith	the first is correct - class names can't have -
20:30	justin_smith	though I don't know what gen-structure is
20:33	mwfogleman	justin_smith: it's a macro in clj-pail.
20:34	mwfogleman	justin_smith: thanks for the reassurance. i think it's definitely the _'s and the -'s :)
20:36	hashpuppy	reading a clojure book online and they give an example of ((or + -) 1 2 3). what is that doing?
20:36	justin_smith	hashpuppy: the cool thing with clojure is usually each part of a form can be run individually
20:37	justin_smith	,(or + -)
20:37	clojurebot	#<core$_PLUS_ clojure.core$_PLUS_@afe405>
20:37	justin_smith	that looks weird, but it is the value of +
20:37	justin_smith	,+
20:37	clojurebot	#<core$_PLUS_ clojure.core$_PLUS_@afe405>
20:37	mwfogleman	the one cool thing ;)
20:37	justin_smith	mwfogleman: one of many :)
20:37	mwfogleman	:D
20:37	justin_smith	so, we substitute + into your form
20:37	justin_smith	,(+ 1 2 3)
20:37	clojurebot	6
20:37	mwfogleman	error messages are one of the few not cool things ;)
20:37	justin_smith	right
20:38	hashpuppy	i see now. thanks
20:38	justin_smith	hashpuppy: since everything is prefix in clojure, we can allow arbitrary numbers of arguments, but I hope it is clear what's happening
20:39	hashpuppy	am i correct that it's just + evaluates to true and so or short-circuits and picks + which it then inserts as you showed above
20:39	justin_smith	right
20:39	justin_smith	,(or 1 2 3)
20:39	clojurebot	1
20:39	hashpuppy	i don't know why i didn't see that earlier. thanks. i'm just not used to or'ing two function expressions
20:40	hashpuppy	it was just an example, though
20:40	justin_smith	,((rand-nth [+ -]) 1 2 3)
20:40	clojurebot	6
20:40	justin_smith	,((rand-nth [+ -]) 1 2 3)
20:40	clojurebot	-4
20:40	justin_smith	,((rand-nth [+ -]) 1 2 3)
20:40	clojurebot	-4
20:40	justin_smith	:)
20:40	hashpuppy	:)
20:40	amalloy	hashpuppy: well, not "true" so much as "truthy", which is a slang word for "acts like true in a boolean context"
20:40	amalloy	because true is after all a different thing from plus
20:40	hashpuppy	amalloy: thanks for that
20:42	Wild_Cat	amalloy: just double-checking, in Clojure only false and nil are falsey, right?
20:42	amalloy	right
20:43	amalloy	and then there's some stuff in clojure 1.6 that treats even false as truthy, with nil being the only falsey value. stuff like some? and when-some
20:43	justin_smith	and keep
20:44	justin_smith	keep is an underused gem
20:44	hashpuppy	last question, why does (map inc [0 1 2 3]) return (1 2 3 4) instead of [1 2 3 4]?
20:44	dbasch	hashpuppy: because map evaluates to a sequence, if you want a vector use mapv
20:44	justin_smith	hashpuppy: because it isn't fmap :) - map coerces the input via seq
20:45	hashpuppy	i see. thanks again
20:45	justin_smith	and mapv coerces to vector via into :)
20:46	mikefikes	hashpuppy: Another aspect of map evaluating to a sequence is that it supports lazyness
20:46	amalloy	hashpuppy: most sequence functions in clojure convert their input to a sequence, and produce a sequence as a result. sequences are kinda the lowest common denominator, the most light-weight abstraction. you can't expect to get out the same type you put in, except for functions that are specific to that type
20:49	johnwalker	(inc justin_smith)
20:49	lazybot	⇒ 103
20:57	amalloy	justin_smith: does it really? i thought the point of mapv was that it's more performant than using into
20:58	justin_smith	$source mapv
20:58	lazybot	mapv is http://is.gd/n1z2gs
20:58	amalloy	yeah, indeed, (mapv f xs) uses reduce/transient/persistent!
20:58	justin_smith	aha, the others use into though
20:58	amalloy	it's only the multi-collection arities that use into, because there's no single collection to reduce
20:58	justin_smith	maybe I was just remembering the old version
20:58	mikefikes	Was going through _Clojure High Performance Programming_, and it shows that last for a vector is O(n). Maybe it is too expensive to check type to do something like (defn lastv [v] (get v (dec (count v))))?
20:59	amalloy	mikefikes: ##(doc peek)
20:59	lazybot	⇒ "([coll]); For a list or queue, same as first, for a vector, same as, but much more efficient than, last. If the collection is empty, returns nil."
20:59	mikefikes	thanks amalloy
21:00	justin_smith	amalloy: no, even 1.5 had the same definition, my bad
21:00	amalloy	yeah, the point of mapv was to be more efficient than into/map
21:05	mikefikes	There's no such thing as an "unconj", is there? Sounds like that may be ill defined.
21:05	mikefikes	pop?
21:05	gfredericks	sounds like a parallel conference
21:06	mikefikes	Yep, like an unconference
21:06	jeffterrell	for recovering Clojure addicts
21:06	gfredericks	mikefikes: yeah pop works for stacky and queuey things; otherwise it's not clear what unconj would do; like for a map or set
21:07	gfredericks	note disj and dissoc
21:09	mikefikes	gfredericks: Yeah, perhaps it is fair to say pop works for sequential collections
21:10	dbasch	if you use pop on non-sequential collections, it explodes
21:10	gfredericks	even the sorted collections though
21:10	gfredericks	which side would you pop from?
21:11	gfredericks	,(sorted-set 9 2 83 4 7)
21:11	mikefikes	gfredericks: Right, I was thinking the same wrt sorted
21:11	clojurebot	#{2 4 7 9 83}
21:17	gfredericks	,(nth nil 42)
21:17	clojurebot	nil
21:17	gfredericks	,(nth () 42)
21:17	clojurebot	#<IndexOutOfBoundsException java.lang.IndexOutOfBoundsException>
21:19	mikefikes	,(get nil 42)
21:19	clojurebot	nil
21:19	mikefikes	,(get () 42)
21:19	clojurebot	nil
21:28	justin_smith	,(get get get)
21:28	clojurebot	nil
21:29	justin_smith	,(get get get get)
21:29	clojurebot	#<core$get clojure.core$get@1e70c7>
21:29	jeremyheiler	lol
21:30	justin_smith	find . -exec sed -i 's/get /(get get get get) /g' {} ;;
21:31	justin_smith	,((get get get get) {:a 0} :a)
21:31	clojurebot	0
21:32	akurilin	quick question: I need to push a change against a clojure lib on github, how do I use a modified local copy of that lib first?
21:32	akurilin	lein deploy?
21:32	jeremyheiler	akurilin: change the version and do `lein install`
21:32	akurilin	oh right lein install
22:28	TimMc	,((comp comp) ((get get get get) (get get get get) (get get get get) (get get get get)))
22:28	clojurebot	#<core$get clojure.core$get@1ddfe97>
22:30	mikefikes	,(get some nil)
22:30	clojurebot	nil
22:30	TimMc	Question: For which f in clojure.core is there some n such that (= (apply f (repeat n f)) f)?
22:32	mikefikes	identity
22:33	bja	mikefikes, I don't think that's true. Pretty sure identity only has arity 1
22:33	TimMc	,(identity identity)
22:33	clojurebot	#<core$identity clojure.core$identity@46d87b>
22:33	mikefikes	,(= (apply identity (repeat 1 identity)) identity)
22:33	clojurebot	true
22:34	bja	,(= (apply identity (repeat 3 identity)) identity)
22:34	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (3) passed to: core/identity>
22:34	el3ctro	,(str "hello")
22:34	clojurebot	"hello"
22:34	jeffterrell	TimMc: Are there any others?
22:35	jeffterrell	bja: I think he was saying some n (assuming n > 0), not all n.
22:35	bja	oh, fair enough
22:36	justin_smith	,(= (apply (constantly identity) (repeat 1000 (constantly identity))))
22:36	clojurebot	true
22:36	bja	comp
22:37	justin_smith	,(= comp (apply comp (repeat 1000 comp)))
22:37	clojurebot	false
22:37	justin_smith	my constantly identity above is broken
22:37	justin_smith	only one arg
22:39	TimMc	,(comp comp comp)
22:39	clojurebot	#<core$comp$fn__4292 clojure.core$comp$fn__4292@9027f3>
22:39	TimMc	hmm
22:42	justin_smith	,(((apply comp (repeat 1000 comp)) inc inc) 1)
22:42	clojurebot	3
22:42	justin_smith	it's efectively equal, just not value equal
22:46	TimMc	=> (filter (fn [f] (try (deref (future (= (apply f (repeat 0 f)) f)) 100 false) (catch Throwable t false))) (map deref (vals (ns-publics 'clojure.core))))
22:46	TimMc	SocketException The transport's socket appears to have lost its connection to the nREPL server
22:46	TimMc	:-(
22:50	bja	n = 1 yields macroexpand dissoc comp disj eval disj! min identity force macroexpand-1 merge partial max
22:50	justin_smith	n = 2 you get any keyword or symbol
22:50	justin_smith	or hash-map
22:50	bja	n=2 I got merge-with max-key min-key
22:52	bja	nothing on n=3
22:53	TimMc	Nothing? It should turn up get.
22:54	mikefikes	What about n=0?
22:55	justin_smith	,(= get (apply get (repeat 3 get)))
22:55	clojurebot	true
22:55	justin_smith	which is exactly the silliness I was playing with earlier :)
23:03	jsanda	i want to iterate over a map and for each key/value pair i want to create 2 new key/value pairs that are stored into a new map. any suggestions on how to do this?
23:04	justin_smith	jsanda: reduce
23:05	jsanda	how would that work?
23:05	bja	for some reason (probably me typing wrong), my run of n=3 didn't work before. here is is now: -> get or .> and ->>
23:05	jsanda	i want to create more not less values
23:05	justin_smith	,(let [input {:a 0 :b 1}] (reduce (fn [m [k v]] (assoc m k v [k k] [v v])) input input))
23:05	clojurebot	{[:a :a] [0 0], [:b :b] [1 1], :b 1, :a 0}
23:05	bja	err
23:06	justin_smith	jsanda: you want to create exactly one value, a map
23:06	justin_smith	oh, new map, my bad
23:07	justin_smith	,(reduce (fn [m [k v]] (assoc m k v [k k] [v v])) {} {:a 0 :b 1})
23:07	clojurebot	{[:a :a] [0 0], :a 0, [:b :b] [1 1], :b 1}
23:07	bja	ignore some oerr, .> isn't in the real clojure.core
23:07	TimMc	bja: Oh hah, because they're macros.
23:07	bja	hmm
23:07	TimMc	,(let [m @#'and] (m m m m))
23:07	clojurebot	#<core$and clojure.core$and@e22c0d>
23:07	bja	well, I was checking for fn?
23:08	justin_smith	TimMc: you did explicitly mention apply, didn't you?
23:08	jsanda	justin_smith: thanks. i'll play around with that
23:08	TimMc	Yeah, does it matter?
23:09	justin_smith	,(apply @#'and (repeat 10 @#'and))
23:09	clojurebot	(clojure.core/let [and__4069__auto__ #<core$and clojure.core$and@e22c0d>] (if and__4069__auto__ (clojure.core/and #<core$and clojure.core$and@e22c0d> #<core$and clojure.core$and@e22c0d> #<core$and clojure.core$and@e22c0d> #<core$and clojure.core$and@e22c0d> ...) and__4069__auto__))
23:09	bja	I was using (defn tc [f n] (= (apply f (repeat n f)) f))
23:09	TimMc	(off to bed, may see reply in morning)
23:09	justin_smith	TimMc: that monstrosity definitly is not equal to @#'and
23:10	bja	((fn [f n] (= (apply f (repeat n f)) f)) @#'and)
23:10	bja	,((fn [f n] (= (apply f (repeat n f)) f)) @#'and)
23:10	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (1) passed to: sandbox/eval129/fn--130>
23:10	bja	,((fn [f n] (= (apply f (repeat n f)) f)) @#'and 3)
23:10	clojurebot	true
23:11	justin_smith	(= @#'and (apply @#'and (repeat 4 @#'and)))
23:11	justin_smith	it works with three args, but not with four
23:11	bja	,((fn [f n] (= (apply f (repeat n f)) f)) @#'and 4)
23:11	clojurebot	false
23:11	bja	,((fn [f n] (= (apply f (repeat n f)) f)) @#'and 5)
23:11	clojurebot	false
23:21	bbloom	whoa just got a crash in nrepl.bencode
23:46	justin_smith	bbloom: on the clojure side?
23:46	bbloom	yeah, long time in the scroll back
23:46	bbloom	won't bother reporting it unless it happens again
23:48	justin_smith	with what on the client side?