#clojure – 2014-09-10

2014-09-10

00:48	rpaulo	\
00:51	rpaulo	oops
01:07	jyu1	hello, a question about the compiler, for example (concat 1 [2]), it will raise an exception indicating 1 is not a iseq after evalution in the repl, looks to me, it will go through compiler.eval, but I cannot catch that exception in the eval method.
01:08	jyu1	I am not sure if I miss something, anybody can help me understand the chain of invocation for the expression?
01:13	ncthom91	hey all. I'm working on a clojurescript project, and I want to test the clojure functions I write, but I can't figure out the directory structure
01:14	amalloy	jyu1: (concat 1 [2]) immediately (and successfully) returns a lazy seq, without ever "looking at" 1 or [2]. when you ask for the first item in that seq (eg by trying to print it at the repl), it explodes because 1 isn't a sequence
01:15	noonian	ncthom91: you will need to have :source-paths in your cljsbuild settings with the directories containing cljs and clj code
01:15	amalloy	thus, (try (concat ...)) doesn't throw an exception; by the time you try to print it, you're no longer inside the try/catch scope
01:15	ncthom91	noonian thanks, I do, I believe :P
01:16	noonian	the directory structure from those named directories should be my_lib/core.clj for a clj(s) ns my-lib.core
01:16	ncthom91	yep, got that much
01:16	ncthom91	then i have ./test/my_lib/test.clj
01:16	ncthom91	(where . is the root of my project directory)
01:17	noonian	you may have to have the test directory in cljsbuild's source paths
01:17	ncthom91	noonian even if I'm just using the normal `lein test` for my testing?
01:18	noonian	are the tests clojure or clojurescript code?
01:18	ncthom91	noonian i guess they'll probably be clojurescript
01:18	ncthom91	so I suppose I'll have to compile them before I test
01:19	ncthom91	noonian maybe I should just use a js testing framework? is that the common wisdom?
01:19	noonian	i actually haven't done much testing, but i think you need to add the clojurescript test lib to dev dependencies also
01:19	noonian	https://github.com/cemerick/clojurescript.test
01:19	noonian	i mean much testing in clojurescript :P
01:22	jyu1	＠amalloy thanks
01:22	noonian	ncthom91: sorry, i'm a few beers in tonight as well hehe; i might not be much help
01:22	ncthom91	noonian heh no worries. You + a few beers = definitely more knowledgeable than I am
01:23	jyu1	amalloy: I add a catch clause with additional msg in the compiler.eval in the end, when I call (concat 1 [2]) , the additional msg will not shown, but (print (concat 1 [2]) does
01:24	noonian	ncthom91: i'd take a look at the clojurescript test readme, and it wont hurt anything to have the test dir in your :source-paths
01:26	noonian	you could add a leiningen alias that calls cemerick.cljs.test/test-ns on your test nss also, i'm not sure how integrated clojurescript.test is with leiningen
01:29	ncthom91	noonian this looks like the key: https://github.com/emezeske/lein-cljsbuild/blob/1.0.3/example-projects/advanced/project.clj#L71
01:30	jyu1	amalloy: looks (concat 1 [2]) does not call the compiler.eval but (print (concat 1 [2]) does
01:32	noonian	ncthom91: the :test profile will be active during cljsbuilds :test-commands i'm sure, but i think that is just telling cljsbuild where to output the js file so that the phantomjs html file can reference it
01:33	ncthom91	noonian well i have to build it before i test it, no?
01:36	noonian	ncthom91: i'm not sure, but at least if you need to test in a browser context. i think i'm probably doing more harm than good at this point though so i'm going to wish you good luck and pass out :p
01:38	dorkmafia	is there a way to define globals in clojure?
01:40	ivan	dorkmafia: any (def) in a namespace?
01:42	jlongster	what does it mean when a vector is in the call position? https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/blob/master/src/cljs/clojure/core/reducers.cljs#L71
01:43	seangrove	Just lookup
01:43	seangrove	,([0 0 1 1 2] 3)
01:43	clojurebot	1
01:44	ncthom91	hey guys, how do I import a namespace to get all of its functions?
01:44	ncthom91	something like https://github.com/emezeske/lein-cljsbuild/blob/1.0.3/example-projects/advanced/test-cljs/example/test/hello.cljs#L2
01:44	ncthom91	except I don't want to list everythin I need in the :only definition
01:44	ncthom91	rather just get it all by default
01:44	jlongster	seangrove: oh. that code calls it with an object (?) instance though? I don't understand that
01:44	jlongster	it almost looks like that's a different way to define functions
01:45	jlongster	coll & cf are the arguments
01:45	seangrove	Oh, sorry
01:45	seangrove	That's just a way of defining different arities
01:45	seangrove	Also that's how you get a docstring for a fn
01:46	seangrove	A tiny bit strange
01:46	jlongster	seangrove: oh, I see. forgot about the multiple arities
01:46	jlongster	seangrove: thanks. obviously have never quite sharpened my Clojure familiarity.
01:47	seangrove	jlongster: Ever done much Haskell/OCaml? Been diving into it alongside Glint recently
01:47	seangrove	The "Let's build a browser engine engine in Haskell pt 2." was pretty cool to see the code compared to Rust
01:48	jlongster	seangrove: not much, but familiar with all the concepts. careful, don't get sucked in too much :)
01:48	jlongster	which article was that? didn't see that one
01:48	jlongster	I'd play with Rust first because it maps well with what I'd do with it: games
01:49	seangrove	http://hrothen.github.io/2014/09/08/lets-build-a-browser-engine-in-haskell-part-2/
01:49	seangrove	Why the warning about getting sucked in - experience? :)
01:50	jlongster	seangrove: nah, but I know several people that once they started using good type systems, couldn't turn back
01:50	jlongster	definitely worth getting to know though
01:51	seangrove	Heh, fair enough
01:53	jyu1	...
01:55	jyu1	will the repl generate classes in memory after evaluting forms?
02:00	amalloy	jyu1: of course. the only way to run any code on the jvm is to have it live in a class
02:03	jyu1	amalloy: so my understanding is wrong, the expression just call the expr's eval method instead of invoking the method of emitted classes in the repl env.
02:04	jyu1	go to look the code again.
02:04	jyu1	come back later
02:04	jyu1	thanks
02:05	amalloy	calling .eval on an expression is not the "common case" for evaluating code. i don't totally understand when it's used, but almost all of the time the compile/run cycle is chosen instead
02:46	dorkmafia	what's the difference between [^String] and [#^String] ?
02:47	sm0ke	new vs old notation i guess
02:48	dorkmafia	oh ok
03:22	snowstalker	What is the best way to figure out the source of randomly new log messages in my clojure project, e.g. http://paste.lisp.org/+32UT
03:24	hiredman	the class name is in the log message
03:26	snowstalker	hiredman: Yes, but I'm not using the class name anywhere in my code, so is there a way to grep the source code of all the (lots of) dependencies listed in my project.clj ...
03:40	sm0ke	you can do ##(bean clojure.lang.Keyword)
03:40	lazybot	java.security.AccessControlException: access denied ("java.lang.RuntimePermission" "getProtectionDomain")
03:41	sm0ke	which which give you location of jar for the class
03:46	piranha	is there a shorter way than (ns ... (:require [my.prefix [one :as one] [two :as two]]))? I.e. at least shorten the prefix maybe...
03:46	TEttinger	,(bean clojure.lang.Keyword)
03:46	clojurebot	{:enum false, :interfaces #<Class[] [Ljava.lang.Class;@3e4d49>, :declaredConstructors #<Constructor[] [Ljava.lang.reflect.Constructor;@876d42>, :simpleName "Keyword", :package #<Package package clojure.lang>, ...}
03:49	sm0ke	,(keys (bean clojure.lang.Keyword))
03:49	clojurebot	(:enum :interfaces :declaredConstructors :simpleName :package ...)
03:50	jyu1	clojurebot: (: 1)
03:50	jyu1	(concat [1] [2])
03:50	sm0ke	,(:protectionDomain (bean clojure.lang.Keyword))
03:50	clojurebot	#<InvocationTargetException java.lang.reflect.InvocationTargetException>
03:51	TEttinger	jyu1: you can eval code by starting with a comma, like
03:51	TEttinger	,(concat [1] [2])
03:51	clojurebot	(1 2)
03:51	jyu1	，(thanks)
03:51	jyu1	,(thanks)
03:51	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: thanks in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
03:51	jyu1	,(print 'a)
03:51	clojurebot	a
03:52	TEttinger	that's a different comma! I'm wondering what that is
03:52	TEttinger	,(int \，)
03:52	clojurebot	65292
03:52	sm0ke	,(-> clojure.lang.Atom .getProtectionDomain .getCodeSource ; .getLocation .getPath)
03:52	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
03:52	sm0ke	,(-> clojure.lang.Atom .getProtectionDomain .getCodeSource .getLocation .getPath)
03:52	clojurebot	#<AccessControlException java.security.AccessControlException: access denied (java.lang.RuntimePermission getProtectionDomain)>
03:53	jyu1	(concat 2 [2])
03:53	jyu1	,(concat 2 [2])
03:53	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: java.lang.Long>
03:53	TEttinger	,(doc concat)
03:53	clojurebot	"([] [x] [x y] [x y & zs]); Returns a lazy seq representing the concatenation of the elements in the supplied colls."
03:53	sm0ke	solid sandboxing
03:53	jyu1	,(concat [2] [3])
03:53	clojurebot	(2 3)
03:54	TEttinger	,(conj [1 2 3] 4)
03:54	clojurebot	[1 2 3 4]
03:54	jyu1	TEttinger: are you familiar with clojure compiler?
03:55	TEttinger	not the internals, no, but I know how to write clojure
03:57	jyu1	how do you deal with the un-friendly error message from clojure? do not tell me the line and column, it is not effective.
03:58	TEttinger	mostly experience with similar messages in earlier code.
03:59	TEttinger	NullPointerException means something is nil where it shouldn't be, and usually you're trying to call it like it's an object.
04:00	TEttinger	StackOverflowException means you have an infinite loop, usually, though freezing with no exception can also be that.
04:01	TEttinger	reader errors usually mean the parentheses don't match, like (+ 1 (/ 4 3)
04:01	TEttinger	there's common errors with Long and ISeq mixups when you try to call something like map or reduce that needs a collection, and you give it a number
04:03	TEttinger	jyu1, Typed Clojure fixes some of this by adding extra things that can be verified before your program runs
04:03	jyu1	:)have you tried?
04:03	TEttinger	that's one of the main motivations for making Typed Clojure, the better error messages. I haven't needed typed clojure though
04:07	jyu1	what editor are you using, I am using cursive
04:18	TEttinger	jyu1, I haven't written a large clojure program in a while, last I used was nightcode
04:25	TEttinger	Morgawr: are you still working on Cloister?
04:35	lvh	hm
04:36	lvh	http://grimoire.arrdem.com/1.6.0/clojure.core/fn/ insists that fn is a macro; but I thought it was a special form
04:36	opqdonut	see the source
04:36	opqdonut	it's a wrapper for the fn* special form
04:36	hyPiRion	lvh: fn is a macro, fn* is a spcial
04:38	opqdonut	the wrapper handles e.g. pre and post conditions
04:40	cfleming	The wrapper also handles destructuring - let is similar
05:23	piranha	what's the best way to mock my db connection?
05:24	hyPiRion	for testing?
05:25	hyPiRion	usually I'd use with-redefs
05:26	piranha	hyPiRion: do you do with-redefs in each deftest separately?
05:27	piranha	hm, I also wonder what do you set it to? To some memory database?
05:27	piranha	that's the first time I'm writing tests for db-backend clojure application, sorry :)
05:27	piranha	I wonder if better way would be having :dynamic function to execute a query
05:28	piranha	so I won't need to have a database at all and could just mock responses...
05:29	hyPiRion	piranha: I'd usually load a clojure map, then use fixtures for the with-redef, and let the queries and such be things on the map itself
05:30	piranha	hyPiRion: hm, do you have an example? Not sure I understand correctly...
05:30	piranha	I would even say 'not sure I understand that' :)
05:30	hyPiRion	This very much depends on the tests you are creating though. It's not that easy for SQL databases for instance
05:30	piranha	yeah, I use pgsql
05:30	hyPiRion	piranha: gimme a sec, I'll make one
05:30	piranha	thanks!
05:33	TEttinger	(inc hyPiRion)
05:33	lazybot	⇒ 45
05:35	piranha	TEttinger: inc is like an upvote?
05:36	TEttinger	$karma TEttinger
05:36	lazybot	TEttinger has karma 21.
05:36	TEttinger	$karma technikhil
05:36	lazybot	technikhil has karma 0.
05:36	TEttinger	$karma technomancy
05:36	lazybot	technomancy has karma 134.
05:36	TEttinger	hyPiRion is doing pretty well
05:36	TEttinger	$karma so
05:36	lazybot	so has karma -33.
05:37	TEttinger	someone used that nick and it messed up highlighting since it was a common word
05:37	technikhil	$karma lazybot
05:37	lazybot	lazybot has karma 29.
05:38	piranha	$karma piranha
05:38	lazybot	piranha has karma 0.
05:38	piranha	obviously
05:38	TEttinger	(inc piranha) ; for wanting to know more
05:38	lazybot	⇒ 1
05:38	piranha	:))
05:39	snowstalker	hiredman: sm0ke Finally figured which library did it by running `ps \| fgrep -i java` to get the CLASSPATH directories list and then going through each jar file whether it contains the PluginProxyUtil class, and figured out the jets3t library is using it, googling finally led me to http://www.jets3t.org/toolkit/configuration.html and adding a
05:39	snowstalker	jets3t.properties file with `httpclient.proxy-autodetect=false` in the resources directory solved the problem :)
05:41	H4ns	hi. how would i express javax.xml.validation.SchemaFactory.class.getName() in clojure?
05:42	TEttinger	,(.getName javax.xml.validation.SchemaFactory/class)
05:42	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to find static field: class in class javax.xml.validation.SchemaFactory, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
05:43	TEttinger	,(.getName (.class javax.xml.validation.SchemaFactory))
05:43	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching field found: class for class java.lang.Class>
05:43	TEttinger	oh!
05:43	H4ns	i suppose that something very javaesque is going on there.
05:43	TEttinger	,(.getName javax.xml.validation.SchemaFactory)
05:43	clojurebot	"javax.xml.validation.SchemaFactory"
05:43	H4ns	ah. that looks good. but why?
05:44	TEttinger	you don't need the .class since javax.xml.validation.SchemaFactory is already a literal for a type of class
05:44	H4ns	ah, ok, understood. thanks!
05:46	hyPiRion	piranha: https://www.refheap.com/90048
05:46	H4ns	i hate it that almost everything that i try in clojure just works. i mean, where is the struggle? i need to procrastinate even more so that i don't appear to be too productive.
05:49	notostraca	(inc H4ns)
05:49	lazybot	⇒ 2
05:50	hyPiRion	piranha: That one should be a fully working clojure test. I tried to include comments, as it's a bit long.
05:50	hyPiRion	well, long in the sense of not being 2 lines.
05:50	piranha	sure :)
05:51	piranha	I see
05:52	piranha	hyPiRion: I was too lazy to create functions which take db as a first parameter, so it's global in my app
05:52	piranha	%)
05:52	piranha	which sucks, but makes it faster to develop... I guess I'll try working with with-redefs-fn
05:52	hyPiRion	piranha: that works as well. If it's a dynamic variable, you can just use binding
05:53	piranha	well my url of a database is a dynamic variable
05:53	hyPiRion	ah
05:53	piranha	but that means I'll need to use some in memory database for that to work
05:53	piranha	plus probably it won't work exactly like pgsql
05:53	piranha	which sucks :\
05:53	hyPiRion	right
05:54	piranha	now I'm trying to decide if I need to redef my low-level functions (like query/execute) or higher-level (create-user/get-session/etc)
05:54	piranha	I probably don't need to test them, so it's going to be ok... I hope
05:55	hyPiRion	right
05:55	hyPiRion	If you really want to test the database properly, I think there's no way around working against an actual postgres db
05:56	piranha	hyPiRion: thanks for the example :)
05:56	piranha	yeah I guess so
05:56	piranha	so it's better to just test api to have fast tests
05:56	hyPiRion	you're welcome
05:56	piranha	(inc hyPiRion) ; I guess :)
05:56	lazybot	⇒ 1
05:56	piranha	woah what
05:57	piranha	why 1?
05:57	hyPiRion	$karma hyPiRion) ; I guess :
05:57	lazybot	hyPiRion) has karma 0.
05:57	hyPiRion	hrm
05:57	piranha	I'm not sure I understand
05:57	piranha	why did it take closing bracket as a part of a name?
05:57	hyPiRion	piranha: lazybot is not exactly bulletproof
05:58	piranha	:)
05:58	piranha	(inc hyPiRion)
05:58	lazybot	⇒ 46
05:58	piranha	hm
05:58	piranha	$karma piranha
05:58	lazybot	piranha has karma 1.
05:58	piranha	$karma piranha)
05:58	lazybot	piranha) has karma 0.
05:58	piranha	$karma hyPiRion)
05:58	lazybot	hyPiRion) has karma 0.
05:58	piranha	$karma hyPiRion) ; test
05:58	lazybot	hyPiRion) has karma 0.
05:58	piranha	ah!
05:58	piranha	damn, I understand it now
05:58	piranha	it's been my smiley
06:00	hyPiRion	https://github.com/Raynes/lazybot/blob/master/src/lazybot/plugins/karma.clj#L69 <- I guess that regex is broken
06:01	piranha	hyPiRion: I think it needs ? right after \)
06:01	piranha	or [^)]+ instead of .+
06:01	piranha	ignore first message plz :)
06:03	hyPiRion	amalloy_: your karma regex isn't working properly, go fix
06:04	TEttinger	$karma hyPiRion) ; I guess :
06:04	lazybot	hyPiRion) has karma 0.
06:05	TEttinger	#"^$(inc\|dec\|identity) (.+?)$(\s;.)?$" ; should work
06:06	hyPiRion	ooh
06:06	hyPiRion	(identity hyPiRion) ; I guess :)
06:06	lazybot	hyPiRion) ; I guess : has karma 1.
06:06	hyPiRion	there you go
06:06	TEttinger	,(re-find "(inc hyPiRion) ; I guess :)" #"^$(inc\|dec\|identity) (.+?)$(\s;.)?$")
06:06	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to java.util.regex.Pattern>
06:06	TEttinger	,(re-find #"^$(inc\|dec\|identity) (.+?)$(\s;.)?$" "(inc hyPiRion) ; I guess :)")
06:06	clojurebot	["(inc hyPiRion) ; I guess :)" "inc" "hyPiRion" " ; I guess :)"]
06:08	hyPiRion	so much highlighting
06:17	piranha	I actually wonder if I should start using component or something similar
06:36	visof	hi
06:37	visof	can map over a tree which give me another tree?
06:39	clgv	visof: you want something like the functions in "clojure.walk"
07:20	haksior	hi there. i'm trying to play a bit with testing of compojure app using emacs/cider. having newly generated app (lein new compojure-app hello-world) and tests of handler.clj I'm getting "Wrong type argument: listp, "test-app" hitting C-c , (run tests for namespace). Any clue why?
07:24	clgv	haksior: looks like the emacs side since clojure has no "listp" so it's probably cider
07:24	clgv	or any other emacs plugin that intervenes
07:36	jcromartie	how can I easily see the order in which namespaces are loaded?
07:36	jcromartie	without adding (println "loading" ns) to every file...
07:36	clgv	jcromartie: require has an iption
07:37	clgv	,(doc require)
07:37	clojurebot	"([& args]); Loads libs, skipping any that are already loaded. Each argument is either a libspec that identifies a lib, a prefix list that identifies multiple libs whose names share a common prefix, or a flag that modifies how all the identified libs are loaded. Use :require in the ns macro in preference to calling this directly. Libs A 'lib' is a named set of resources in classpath whose contents...
07:37	clgv	&(doc require)
07:37	lazybot	⇒ "([& args]); Loads libs, skipping any that are already loaded. Each argument is either a libspec that identifies a lib, a prefix list that identifies multiple libs whose names share a common prefix, or a flag that modifies how all the identified libs are loaded. Use ... https://www.refheap.com/90052
07:37	clgv	jcromartie: (require 'my-parent.ns :verbose)
07:37	jcromartie	excellent
07:38	jcromartie	thanks
07:38	jcromartie	gotta work around all of the Leiningen loading stuff too...
07:39	jcromartie	:repl-options, :main, :aot
07:39	clgv	you want to use this on "lein repl" or "lein run"?
07:39	clgv	jcromartie: you can bind loading-verbosely to true in your project.clj
07:40	jcromartie	ah ha
07:40	clgv	jcromartie: :global-vars {loading-verbosely true}
07:41	clgv	I am not sure if it works with "lein run" but "lein repl" is supposed to work with that config
07:43	jcromartie	this is basically undocumented?
07:44	lnostdal	hi guys, anyone had any experience running clojure on arm? e.g. chromebook and similar? ..i'm asking because i'm considering an energy-efficient laptop / ultrabook while traveling
07:44	clgv	jcromartie: what exactly?
07:46	clgv	jcromartie: :verbose is document in `require`, loading--verbosely is not really documented in connection. :global-vars is documented in leiningen's sample project.clj - so the bits are mostly documented in their places, but your entire use case is not documented afaik - capture it in a blog post :)
07:47	jcromartie	it's hard to find any documentation about loading-verbosely
07:47	jcromartie	seems more like it's bound to true by the system, not for users to bind
07:47	jcromartie	http://www.clodoc.org/doc/clojure.core/loading-verbosely
07:47	jcromartie	but I could be wrong
07:48	clgv	oh right it is private and thus an implementation detail...
07:48	jcromartie	so this is weird
07:48	clgv	that's probably an error with respect to tooling
07:49	clgv	you can trick it via :global-vars {#'clojure.core/loading-verbosely true}
07:49	jcromartie	I've removed the :main, :aot, and :repl-options from my project.clj but it is still loading code from source when I run lein repl
07:49	jcromartie	hm I see
07:49	jcromartie	are there any other things that could trigger loading code in "lein repl" ?
07:49	jcromartie	oh
07:50	jcromartie	I do have a "user" ns
07:50	jcromartie	in one of my source directories
07:50	clgv	user.clj?
07:50	clgv	yeah that might be the reason, I never tried but I think there is a convention that a user.clj is loaded on repl startup
07:53	piranha	hm
07:54	piranha	anybody here ever used pgsql jdbc driver to pass arrays to postgresql?
07:54	piranha	I understand that I need to extend vector with jdbc/ISQLValue protocol
07:54	piranha	but then it seems pgsql driver wants me to use conn.createArrayOf(type, java-array) to create an array
07:54	piranha	and I don't have connection there
07:56	mikker	Any good examples of open source compojure apps that implement some kind of authentication?
07:57	mikker	I'm looking for some inspiration
08:05	AeroNotix	When I am in a lein repl instance of a project through CIDER. How would I add a new dependency to the project without needing to restart the repl?
08:06	clgv	AeroNotix: pomegranate (or another similar lib whose name I forgot)
08:06	AeroNotix	clgv: thought so
08:06	clgv	mikker: we used friend
08:07	r4vi	AeroNotix: alembic
08:08	mikker	clgv: yea, saw that. Though I'd do something simpler myself
08:08	mikker	Just to get to know clojure better along the way
08:11	clgv	mikker: ah you only asked for learning purposes
08:12	mikker	Learning and eventually using :)
08:12	mikker	I'm reading up on friend now. Can't hurt.
08:12	clgv	mikker: we have it in 2 non-public projects for form-based authentication
08:44	clgv	did anyone try to just use the warm-up functionality of "criterium"?
11:07	magopian	i'm trying to understand https://github.com/clojure/core.async/blob/master/examples/walkthrough.clj#L57
11:07	magopian	what is the use for the go block here, as we're anyway using <!! ?
11:08	magopian	couldn't we just do (assert (= "hello" (<!! c))) ?
11:08	tbaldridge	magopian: the example is showing how to use the go macro, and then its showing that go returns a value via a channel. You wouldn't want to write code like that IRL
11:09	magopian	tbaldridge: ok, it's just the example, thanks ;)
11:09	magopian	btw, thanks "in advance" for your videos (i've downloaded them all, and will watch them soon ;)
11:10	magopian	(it's a long path, i started looking at om, then at core.async, then the video from swannodette (the cognitect webinar on core.async), then the introductory blog post from Rich, then those examples, next are your videos :)
11:10	magopian	(and trying at the same time to grok transducers, thanks to cgrand who gave us an informal hangout on "transducers from scratch" :)
11:11	magopian	all that for my poor little noob brain, i hope i'm not leaking brain cells through my ears
11:14	aconbere	So... kind of weird question... I've been using jdbc for a bunch of things. But one of the databases I use (RedShift) is REALLY REALLY slow if I use prepared statements.
11:14	aconbere	so I've had to end up preparing my sql statements in code, and I'm trying to find out if someone has made a light weight sql library that will make safe sql strings for me
11:15	aconbere	it doesn't look like with clojure.jdbc that I have any option except for using prepared statements
11:16	gdeer81	aconbere, did you look at some of the SQL abstractions like Korma or Honey SQL?
11:17	aconbere	gdeer81: I did, but I'm hoping to not end up in a DSL for writing SQL
11:20	ghadishayban	honeySQL has worked very well for us
11:21	ghadishayban	it doesn't try to do anything ORMey
11:22	aconbere	ghadishayban: I think also I might be riding a fringe here because RS is so non-performant with parameterized queries
11:22	aconbere	looking at honey sql it looks like it actually generates parameterized jdbc statements
11:25	ghadishayban	is RS that non-performant?
11:26	aconbere	ghadishayban: the difference in the performance sensitive queries I'm running between using a parepared statement and a formated string are on the order of 15 minutes
11:26	aconbere	(where the formatted string option runs in about 20s)
11:27	clgv	aconbere: is RedShift a reasonable choice then at all?
11:27	ghadishayban	interesting, that sounds like a bug
11:27	aconbere	clgv: well... running the query in 20s with a formatted string is certainly an option
11:27	aconbere	but prepared statements are off the table for us :)
11:28	clgv	but a db where you cannot use prepared statements efficiently?
11:28	aconbere	clgv: why is that a deal breaker for you?
11:28	ghadishayban	can always generate the q sans prepared statement with any of the options
11:28	aconbere	ghadishayban: yeah, so that's what we do
11:28	aconbere	nothing that we run takes arbitrary user input
11:28	aconbere	but it makes all of us ... squirmy
11:29	aconbere	thus my question about safe sql string generation
11:29	aconbere	it looks like my best bet is maybe using owasp/esapi and just generating escaped strings
11:29	ghadishayban	assuming you set Forward_only and read_only
11:30	clgv	isnt even that spreadsheet thingy, called mysql, able to do performant queries via prepared statements?
11:30	aconbere	clgv it is, but it's less happy with my very large datasets :)
11:30	arrdem	gdeer81: o/
11:30	clgv	I didnt want to recommend using it. just putting it into perspective. why exactly do you use redshift?
11:31	aconbere	clgv: we use redshift as an analytics database, we have many many terabytes of data in it, and we almost exclusively run ugly analytics type queries on it
11:31	aconbere	so group bys with CTE's and the works
11:32	aconbere	it's not clear to me exactly why RS is choking on prepared statements this way
11:32	aconbere	it's engine is a modified Postgres engine and one would think it would be fine
11:32	aconbere	its
11:32	aconbere	bleh
11:32	gdeer81	arrdem, oh hai
11:33	clgv	aconbere: maybe it is really some kind of bug?
11:34	aconbere	clgv: my best bet is that something about how they parameterize queries and potentially even my inputs to it is causing a cache miss on the query plan
11:34	arrdem	gdeer81: to belatedly answer your question school work allowing I was planning on clojurecupping. thinking about comming up again?
11:36	gdeer81	arrdem, I was hoping to come up for at least one day but I might have to be totes-remote this year
11:37	arrdem	gdeer81: if you need a place to crash in ATX I've got an appartment this year. all remote would be... interesting.
11:38	aconbere	clgv: I mean, I'm not thrilled by this, but i'm pretty thrilled so far by the value that RS provides per dollar versus running our own vertica cluster of the same size
11:41	gdeer81	arrdem, with hangouts and skype and the myriad of telecommuting tools available I don't think remote teammates will be an issue. And hopefully this year we can limit the scope of our entry
11:41	arrdem	gdeer81: lol yes
11:45	clgv	aconbere: but I'd check possible error sources that are connected with the poor performance of prepared statements.
11:47	abp	(clojure.tools.reader.edn/read-string (pr-str #"\.")) throws ExceptionInfo Unsupported escape character: \.
11:47	abp	that's a bug right?
11:47	clgv	,(read-string (pr-str #"\."))
11:47	clojurebot	#"\."
11:48	arrdem	abp: the edn reader doesn't include patterns AFAIK
11:48	arrdem	abp: the clojure reader does
11:48	aconbere	clgv: yeah, a good reminder. I can easily create the test case and send it to our rep.
11:49	arrdem	abp: https://github.com/edn-format/edn
11:49	arrdem	abp: note that there is no "pattern" type in there
11:49	clgv	,(do (require '[clojure.edn :as edn]) (edn/read-string (pr-str #"\.")))
11:49	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: No dispatch macro for: ">
11:49	abp	arrdem: yes, damn
11:50	clgv	,(edn/read-string (pr-str (str #"\.")))
11:50	clojurebot	"\\."
11:50	clgv	,(re-pattern (edn/read-string (pr-str (str #"\."))))
11:50	clojurebot	#"\."
11:51	clgv	abp: you could work around it ^^
11:51	arrdem	clgv: but then you introduce an out of band schema... "this thing is really a pattern but we can't encode that"
11:51	abp	arrdem: Happens when sending certain error structures generated by prismatic/schema to other web services, i.e. schemas containing regexes
11:52	arrdem	{:op :pattern :payload my-string}
11:55	clgv	arrdem: if you actually can work around it surely depends on the application and I did not suggest to replace it literally for scenarios where an automatic recognition of the pattern must happen...
11:56	abp	arrdem, clgv: maybe i just wrap the regexes to produce specific errors.
11:57	abp	arrdem, clgv: Thanks anyway
11:58	mmitchel_	I have a ring app that i'm building using the "lein ring uberwar" command. In the resulting war, I'm seeing WEB-INF/classes and WEB-INF/lib -- I see the clojure.jar in lib, but also see all of the class files in WEB-INF/classes -- Is there anyway to have "lein ring uberwar" not include those class files in the war file?
11:59	elarson	I have a general functional programming question that I'm hoping will be helpful understanding common idioms in clojure
11:59	justin_smith	mmitchel_: an uberwar is meant to be standalone
12:00	justin_smith	mmitchel_: and why shouldn't it pre-compile?
12:00	joegallo	elarson: i grant you permission to ask it
12:00	mmitchel_	justin_smith: hmm, so maybe I should be doing "lein ring war" instead?
12:00	mdeboard	Saruman would approve
12:00	justin_smith	mmitchel_: why do you object to those class files?
12:01	mmitchel_	justin_smith: because we're thinking that it's causing an "out of file descriptors" exception. We've found that increasing the ulimit fixes the problem, but we don't want to have to do that obviously
12:01	elarson	I have a program that takes a big csv and writes bunch of files smaller files. in python I would create an object and maintain a list of the files created for later. I was trying to write the same thing using only functions and I'm thinking about writing a function that resets the current file and returns a new file handle, a new csv writer and the list of files. that seems like a horrible API though so I'm curious how others might
12:01	elarson	refactor that code
12:03	justin_smith	mmitchel_: you could edit the uberwar, it is a zip file. But certain things need to be available to the app container as class files - it won't be a trivial thing to make it work. You'd probably need to make a shim with a .class that loads the rest from .clj files. And would this really help with the file descriptor count issues?
12:04	elarson	hmm... I suppose one obvious change would be to return a map with the new filename, handle and csv writer. that would be better
12:04	joegallo	elarson: what determines the point where you switch to another file?
12:05	clgv	elarson: yeah something like (defn dosth [fileconfig, data] ) -> returns fileconfig should work
12:05	lavokad	nnect
12:05	lavokad
12:05	elarson	joegallo: at this point I'm just using the number of rows.
12:05	mmitchel_	justin_smith: ugh :) thanks for the info. I'll have to look into this more I think
12:06	elarson	joegallo: it is a really wide csv (5k+ columns) and turns it into a entity-attribute-value format
12:07	joegallo	is there a naming scheme or something for the smaller files?
12:07	elarson	so each row size becomes pretty similar across the entire file.
12:07	mmitchel_	justin_smith: so is there a way to know what class files are required?
12:07	elarson	joegallo: yeah, it just adds a number before a .csv.gz
12:08	joegallo	k, gonna hack on a gist for a minute
12:08	justin_smith	mmitchel_: I don't know off the top of my head. You need a .class file that the container can load and invoke, and you can make that do whatever you like to load all your clojure code
12:09	TimMc	This is a perfectly reasonable way to type-hint an argument, right?
12:09	TimMc	(fn [v] (rx.Observable/from ^Iterable (repeat v v)))
12:09	justin_smith	mmitchel_: there is documentation online on manually constructing an uberwar, and it will have more details than I can remember.
12:10	TimMc	I'm encountering a case where the type hint is being lost and the Object version of the method is being called instead...
12:10	TimMc	I thought it was Midje, but after some macroexpansion I'm wondering if this is a Clojure compilation thing.
12:10	justin_smith	TimMc: you mean type hint a return value, right? and shouldn't the fn be hinted, not the value you are returning?
12:11	TimMc	Type-hint an argument.
12:11	joegallo	elarson: https://gist.github.com/joegallo/1d795d9a613795dab9fe i've named things terribly on purpose, and kept it all pretty vague
12:11	joegallo	but that's something like the shape of what i'd probably do
12:11	justin_smith	TimMc: ahh, so the fn isn't the point, got it
12:11	TimMc	rx.Observable/from has several variations, among which are (Object) and (Iterable).
12:12	TimMc	Yeah, sorry, it's an oerly large code extract.
12:12	TimMc	*overly, ugh
12:12	clgv	justin_smith: mmitchel_: you'd need something similar to org.timmc/lein-otf
12:12	TimMc	clgv: Which is currently broken but totally easy to replicate per-project.
12:12	clgv	TimMc: still works over here. what is broken?
12:13	justin_smith	mmitchel_: https://github.com/timmc/lein-otf yeah, this looks like it would help
12:13	TimMc	Last I saw, it was failing to inject a :main or something.
12:13	TimMc	I don't know if it's worth fixing -- it's more of a pattern than a plugin.
12:13	justin_smith	well, you don't need a :main for an uberwar anyway :)
12:14	ncthom91	hey all. I keep getting this error and I'm not sur what it means: " Only one :require form is allowed per namespace definition"
12:14	technomancy	these days it's easy to avoid AOT in uberjars; just put clojure.main as your entry point and use the -m option
12:14	technomancy	only place it doesn't work is if you need the jar to do something sensible with no args
12:15	clgv	TimMc: oh right it somehow points to clojure's main
12:15	ncthom91	nvm, got it ;)
12:15	TimMc	Some lein change broke it, I guess.
12:15	matthoffman	justin_smith: TimMc: mmitchel_: but we're talking about a war here, right? No main necessary.
12:16	mmitchel_	war yes
12:16	CookedGryphon	Hey, does anyone know how I can read edn data which has some #<JavaClass > bits in it without completely falling over
12:16	justin_smith	matthoffman: yeah, that's wwhat I just said :)
12:16	TimMc	CookedGryphon: regular expressions?
12:16	CookedGryphon	urgh
12:17	justin_smith	wait, if it contains #<...> it isn't valid edn is it?
12:17	TimMc	Hacking in a reader for #<, perhaps?
12:17	CookedGryphon	justing
12:17	justin_smith	the point of #< is to mean unreadable
12:17	CookedGryphon	justin: no, if it's #blah something then it is
12:17	CookedGryphon	yeah, and that's fine, how do I get the rest of the message
12:17	CookedGryphon	or how to I output only readable things
12:17	TimMc	I mean, the real answer is "you don't".
12:17	matthoffman	justin_smith: True, sorry :)
12:18	TimMc	CookedGryphon: Cheshire with an emitter for Object?
12:18	TimMc	But that's not EDN, sorry.
12:18	TimMc	tree-walking, maybe
12:19	CookedGryphon	Surely it could just give it to me as a symbol or something?
12:19	justin_smith	CookedGryphon: you could make an extension of pr-str that returns a readable placeholder for unreadable forms
12:20	CookedGryphon	justin_smith: what would I extend? Would I have to do it for each unreadable form I knew about?
12:21	CookedGryphon	it's really really annoying that there isn't a edn/write which is guaranteed round-trippable with edn/read
12:21	clgv	TimMc: how did it work before?
12:21	clgv	TimMc: the namespace was written into the manifest right?
12:21	TimMc	clgv: Yeah, and inject its own loader ns into :main in the project map.
12:22	clgv	TimMc: the difference between the two builds is that Main-Class in the manifest does now point to clojure.main instead of my :main
12:23	TimMc	A per-project DIY version would be simpler and just involve creating a second namespace that does (defn -main [& args] (require 'my.real.ns) (apply @(resolve 'my.real.ns/-main) args))
12:23	clgv	TimMc: hm yeah probably
12:23	clgv	TimMc: had that before for a different project
12:30	elarson	joegallo: thanks! that makes it extremely clear why I'd rather be using clojure ;)
12:32	joegallo	elarson: i couldn't stop until i used a threading macro. and the loop was bugging me.
12:32	joegallo	updated the gist
12:35	elarson	joegallo: what part is using threading macro?
12:35	joegallo	(->> ...) is the threading macro
12:35	elarson	ah ok, that is what I thought
12:35	elarson	does it do each step in a thread or the whole thing?
12:36	joegallo	it allows you to write a nested s-expression (the evaluates from the inside out) into a series of sequential s-expressions that read from the top to the bottom
12:36	clgv	elarson: no, no java-threads are involved
12:36	noonian	elarson: it's not about os threads, it will pass the result of the cal to some-lazy... as the first argument to partition-all and the result of that as the first arg to map-indexed
12:37	justin_smith	CookedGryphon: just spitballing here - what about a tree walker that returns the pr-str version by default, except for the collections, where it recurses, and catches unreadables (unreadable objects will always match a simple regex) and replacing them with placeholders
12:37	joegallo	(a (b (c (d e f)))) becomes (->> (d e f) (c) (b) (a)) which may seems horrible and confusing at first, but later i promise you'll fall in love with it
12:37	joegallo	it's like sushi
12:38	Fare	-> and ->> are great
12:38	J_Arcane	I'm not sure I understand why you would want to do that?
12:39	justin_smith	J_Arcane: they can make code much more readable
12:39	joegallo	there's a certain conceptual readability that sometimes flows from it
12:39	Fare	I also have (defmacro <- "Nesting macro" ([] nil) ([x] x) ([x & y] `(~@x (<- ~@y)))) ;; like UIOP:NEST in CL
12:39	elarson	joegallo: yeah, I tried using -> the other day and it was pretty nice.
12:39	hiredman	(->> foo (map f) (filter g) (mapcat h))
12:39	hfaafb	because it represents the pipeline of data transformations in a more linear way, outside in rather than inside out
12:39	elarson	core.async has also completely ruined my desire to play with go ;)
12:40	mdrogalis	elarson: Glad I'm not the only one ;[
12:40	J_Arcane	Ahhh. OK, I see what you mean now, I think I misunderstood the description.
12:40	justin_smith	hfaafb: more left-to-right rather than inside out
12:40	joegallo	https://gist.github.com/joegallo/b5e6bd2346cd261016be J_Arcane elarson
12:40	Jaood	comp beats both :P
12:40	joegallo	slightly better example
12:40	justin_smith	Jaood: good luck using comp with macros and interop, -> / ->> handle those nicely
12:41	justin_smith	Jaood: yeah, you can use lambdas but... otherwise, agreed, comp is great
12:42	joegallo	justin_smith: comp is great, and imma let you finish, but juxt is one of the best functions OF ALL TIME
12:42	justin_smith	(inc juxt)
12:42	lazybot	⇒ 13
12:42	Fare	Where would I go to get <- standardized?
12:42	noonian	lol
12:42	justin_smith	Fare: nail your theses to the clojure jira door
12:42	Jaood	justin_smith: yeah, some people just abuse -> / ->> to much
12:43	mdrogalis	justin_smith: Like nailing jello to a tree.
13:24	danneu	dont forget about as->
13:25	danneu	feel like a gambler when i use ->/->> without knowing the position i need for every fn i'm gonna thread
13:25	arrdem	Fare: what does <- do?
13:26	arrdem	splice of x splice of y...
13:27	llasram	It seems conceptually to be (comp ->> reverse)
13:28	llasram	But you know, not literally that because macros
13:28	Fare	arrdem: it's nesting things a bit in reverse of ->
13:28	danneu	id rather just see (as-> thing _, (foo 42 _), (bar _ 42))
13:29	Fare	so (<- (let [a c]) (match [x] [some pattern]) (when (some-condition)) ...)
13:29	Fare	it's great to avoid nesting of 10+ binding forms.
13:30	Fare	and vast indentation to the right
13:30	TimMc	I'm sure that's in the swiss-arrows lib.
13:31	Fare	TimMc: nice. I'll google it
13:32	Fare	nope, I don't see anything like it
13:32	Fare	in https://github.com/rplevy/swiss-arrows
13:33	Fare	oh wait it has a <<-
13:34	Fare	so yes, it has it
13:40	clgv	Fare: why not just use `as->` ?
13:45	J_Arcane	I have achieved clojure enlightment, apparently.
13:45	Fare	:-)
13:45	justin_smith	(inc TimMc)
13:45	lazybot	⇒ 70
13:45	Fare	clgv: where is it defined?
13:46	justin_smith	$source as->
13:46	lazybot	Source not found.
13:46	justin_smith	Fare: clojure.core, 1.5+
13:47	Fare	very different http://clojure.github.io/clojure/clojure.core-api.html#clojure.core/as-%3E
13:47	clgv	Fare: clojure.core
13:48	clgv	Fare: but it removes the need for <<-
13:48	olasuka	i am using generative testing, to cover some macros i am developing, and part of the macro is interning a symbol to the namespace that is calling the macro.
13:48	Fare	my <- or swiss-arrows/<<- allows you to nest arbitrary binding forms
13:49	justin_smith	olasuka: that is an intentional behavior of `(), if you use that construct
13:49	olasuka	the issue is that clojure.core, is of course present, and when a symbol such as '*' is generated, I am getting errors of the overwriting of the symbol
13:49	arrdem	TimMc: I challenge you to find a use of that that's correct and meaningfu
13:49	arrdem	*meaningfull.
13:49	Fare	so you can define and/or use as many of them as you like, and never had to indent your code to the right
13:49	olasuka	is there any way to supress the behavior, or to ignore certain classes of errors during the testing?
13:50	Fare	all the advantages of python blocks with none of the disadvantages.
13:50	arrdem	Fare: ah nice
13:50	olasuka	I know that would be an issue, once the code is run, but the writer would be aware of the issue.
13:50	justin_smith	olasuka: wait, what is the specific exception or error you are getting?
13:50	TimMc	arrdem: Turn on AOT and run lein compile, tests until tests pass. No need to fiddle about with choosing an arrow!
13:51	arrdem	TimMc: you monster
13:51	olasuka	:justin_smith the error is not with the test itself, but this...
13:51	Fare	in CL, I've seen so many "generalized binding" packages that tried to combine "all" the binding forms in one thing, none of these macros supported all the things you wanted, because none of them supported your own macros, unless you rewrote them, or used complex extension mechanisms.
13:51	Fare	<- has a trivial extension mechanism
13:52	olasuka	WARNING: * already refers to: #'clojure.core/* in namespace: athena.dsl.types.nodes.model-eval, being replaced by: #'athena.dsl.types.nodes.model-eval/*
13:52	Fare	and doesn't require you to learn a new syntax.
13:52	olasuka	CompilerException java.lang.NullPointerException, compiling:(:30:1)
13:52	justin_smith	olasuka: why are you trying to def the symbol *
13:52	clgv	Fare: ah btw the threading macros in clojure.core were rewritten without recursive calls to themselves
13:52	olasuka	this is produced by a generative testing suite. clojure.test.generative
13:52	Fare	clgv: what does that change?
13:53	olasuka	justin_smith: so any string is produced to test the code
13:53	clgv	Fare: it immediately expands to the full form. I dont remember the exact reasons therefore.
13:54	clgv	Fare: maybe they needed it due to composition.
13:54	olasuka	justin_smith: so, i end up with minimal failure cases that look like this: (init * "" A :adapa)
13:54	olasuka	justin_smith: where init is the macro definition
13:55	olasuka	justin_smith: the astersik is getting converted to an interned symbol for reference later in the code
13:56	olasuka	justin_smith: normal usage would be: (init TEST-MODEL "the doc string" MODEL-NAME :server-type)
13:56	olasuka	justin_smith: and this would produce a TEST-MODEL symbol, useable in the code, that is the construction of a java class provided by a subsumed java API
13:59	justin_smith	olasuka: seems the sensible thing would be to blacklist symbols bound directly in the testing namespace from the generated inputs
13:59	justin_smith	olasuka: I don't know how that's done in test.check though
14:00	olasuka	justin_smith: i was hoping to avoid that route, as it would entail me filtering and redefining the basic generators, but it may be the only option... I am looking into overring the intern warning, but that could produce some really unexpected behavior.
14:02	olasuka	justin_smith: thanks... I think I am going to do that... create a filter on the generator to exclude all clojure.core symbols
14:02	olasuka	justin_smith: thanks
14:02	justin_smith	(remove (set (keys (ns-refers ns))) generated)
14:03	olasuka	justin_smith: hmm...
14:03	justin_smith	that will remove all items that are refered in the current ns from the sequence generated
14:03	justin_smith	you may need to add 'name' in there for string coercion
14:05	olasuka	justin_smith: thanks... i like the idea, the problem, is that if I say override '' i will end up with a re-defined '' so (* 1 2) is an error... that is going to produce so erratic behavior. i think your first pass was right on... i am going to need to exclude the sysmbols from being produced in the test set.
14:05	olasuka	justin_smith: thanks again for the feedback, i appreciate it.
14:06	justin_smith	my above one liner will work, if you have a sequence containing the potential generated symbols
14:09	olasuka	justin_smith: maybe I am mis-understanding the behavior, but it would seem that a symbol, such as '*' would be removed from the ns? so later, either I would have a re-definintion of the symbol, or no symbol at all... is that correct?
14:09	justin_smith	olasuka: no no
14:10	justin_smith	that removes any matching symbols from a list of symbols
14:10	justin_smith	assuming you have some mechanism for filtering the symbols used by your generator
14:10	olasuka	justin_smith: ahh, right... I see it... you are using the ns symbol set as the comparision source, and excluding those values...
14:11	justin_smith	,(remove (set (keys (ns-refers ns))) '[* + foo - str bar])
14:11	clojurebot	(foo bar)
14:11	olasuka	justin_smith: from the newly created values
14:11	justin_smith	right, see above
14:11	olasuka	justin_smith: yeah... nice
14:11	olasuka	justin_smith: that has the added benefit of unique definition
14:12	olasuka	justin_smith: cool...thanks.
14:12	justin_smith	np
14:13	amalloy	Jaood: i think there's just "abusing arrows" and "using arrows too much". abusing them too much is weird
14:14	justin_smith	I find abusing them just enough quite productive
14:14	amalloy	(further, i don't think there's any such thing as using arrows too much. any number of uses is lovely, as long as no one use is an abuse. adding more arrows doesn't make previous ones a bad idea)
14:15	olasuka	except the first one, that went into my knee... that was a bad idea
14:15	amalloy	whoops, i just fell into a time machine to 2012
14:15	olasuka	welcome back... we've missed you
14:16	olasuka	or we will miss you... i get confused...
14:21	holo	/Users/ccfontes/hy/venv/bin/hy
14:21	holo	oh sorry guys, wrong # :)
14:25	TimMc	Anyone know of a way to get Cheshire to default to toString for otherwise non-JSON-encodable objects?
14:29	justin_smith	TimMc: what about (add-encoder java.lang.Object #(.toString %))
14:31	amalloy	justin_smith: that's a funny way to write (add-encoder Object str)
14:32	justin_smith	amalloy: and it's also incorrect in either form
14:32	justin_smith	playing with it now seeing how this works
14:32	amalloy	is it? i don't know what cheshire's encoder api is like
14:33	justin_smith	yeah, your function gets two args, a thing to write to and the object to be written
14:33	amalloy	i'm a bit dubious that toString is actually a good encoding more than like 10% of the time, really; the cases where it does work you probably wouldn't mind listing by hand rather than defaulting to Object
14:33	TimMc	justin_smith: Here's the problem: I don't want that to be a permanent, global thing.
14:33	justin_smith	TimMc: ahh, tricky
14:34	amalloy	TimMc: cheshire.core/remove-encoder...?
14:34	justin_smith	too bad there isn't a way to bind an encoder locally
14:34	TimMc	It's a hack, so I'd really only want it in this one dynamic scope where lack of exceptions is more important than correctness and round-trippability.
14:35	csd_	How can I do something like `for` where the input is a vector of vectors of unknown length? I.e. I want to use for to iterate across all subvectors but I don't know how many there will be ahead of time.
14:35	amalloy	csd_: that's basically a cartesian product
14:36	amalloy	which lives in clojure.math.combinatorics
14:36	csd_	oh good call
14:42	amalloy	TimMc: if you want to try something other than cheshire, clj-json does support dynamically-scoped encoders
14:42	TimMc	Ah, thanks.
14:42	TimMc	I think my other alternative is mucking about in the guts of the JSONable protocol...
14:43	TimMc	It looks like I could maybe bind the protocol?...
14:43	amalloy	TimMc: binding protocols doesn't work well at all. don't do it
14:44	amalloy	TimMc: (def ^:dynamic cheat-mode false) (extend-type Object JSONable (encode [this encoder] (when-not cheat-mode (explode)) (encode (str this) encoder)))
14:44	amalloy	would be an amusing approach
14:44	TimMc	o.O
14:44	TimMc	I like it!
14:44	amalloy	the main problem is that you prevent anyone else from setting up a temporary cheat mode
14:44	amalloy	so you might make cheat-mode a function instead of a boolean, which is how to cheat
14:47	Fare	that's where interface-passing style can help
14:47	Fare	the protocol is in a separate interface object, not in the data object
14:47	ncthom91_	hi guys. I'm writing some nodejs in clojurescript, and I'm finding that "(.readFileSync fs fixture-path "utf8")" gets compiled such that .readFileSync becomes something like .Pc
14:47	ncthom91_	and obviously node's fs doesn't have a method "Pc"
14:48	ncthom91_	how do I prevent that rewrite at compile time?
14:52	noonian	ncthom91_: do you have :target :nodejs in your cljsbuild compiler settings?
14:52	ncthom91_	noonian yep
14:52	noonian	you probably need to use js/fs
14:53	noonian	if its normally a global in nodejs
14:53	amalloy	Fare: sure. that's obviously more flexible. but it's more expensive too, and i think cheshire is right to opt for the fastest approach, with json encoding often being an actual bottleneck
14:53	ncthom91_	noonian it's not, i have "(def fs (nodejs/require "fs"))" at the top of my file
14:53	ncthom91_	(and i've tried js/require instead of nodejs/require)
14:55	noonian	ncthom91_: i think you just need to turn off advanced compilation, cljsbuild docs say its unneccesary and that if you want it you need to supply your own externs file for the nodejs api
14:55	Fare	amalloy: it's not necessarily more expensive, if the bottleneck is in the processing rather than the dispatch
14:55	noonian	Note using advanced compilation on Node.js targets is unnecessary. If for some reason it is desirable you must supply externs for the Node.js APIs
14:55	noonian	from https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/wiki/Quick-Start
14:57	ncthom91_	noonian interesting, didn't know that. I changed it to :simple but I still get the same method-name-rewrite problem
14:57	noonian	ncthom91_: make sure you clean out the old generated js and restart lein cljsbuild if you are using auto
14:58	noonian	maybe just try whitespace
14:58	noonian	according to https://developers.google.com/closure/compiler/docs/compilation_levels simple renames local variables and expressions to make them shorter
14:59	DaReaper5	Hey I got a kinda basic question: I am doing this: (list [1 2] (if something [3 4])) This I believe is wrong, how do i conditionally include something in this (list ?
15:00	noonian	(into [1 2] (if something [3 4] [])) would work
15:00	llasram	,(concat [1 2] (if true [3 4] [5 6]))
15:00	clojurebot	(1 2 3 4)
15:00	llasram	,(concat [1 2] (if false [3 4] [5 6]))
15:00	clojurebot	(1 2 5 6)
15:00	llasram	,(concat [1 2] (if false [3 4]))
15:00	clojurebot	(1 2)
15:01	amalloy	,`[1 2 ~@(if true [3 4] [5 6])] works too
15:01	clojurebot	[1 2 3 4]
15:01	llasram	amalloy: Awww. Was just about to add that one :-)
15:01	DaReaper5	i want this: ( [1 2] [3 4] )
15:01	amalloy	DaReaper5: can you think of how to adjust the suggested solutions to that goal?
15:01	DaReaper5	But I keep getting "java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.ArraySeq cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn"
15:02	noonian	,(into (list [1 2]) (if true [[3 4]]))
15:02	clojurebot	([3 4] [1 2])
15:02	amalloy	DaReaper5: that exception generally means you are dribbling parentheses all over the page
15:03	noonian	,(concat (list [1 2]) (if something [[3 4]]))
15:03	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: something in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
15:03	noonian	,(concat (list [1 2]) (if true [[3 4]]))
15:03	clojurebot	([1 2] [3 4])
15:03	DaReaper5	amalloy: hey amalloy, thanks again for your help the other day. I think... noonian might have the answer for me. Brb
15:03	ncthom91_	noonian you were right. I had to clear out the cached build files, and set optimizations to :simple
15:03	ncthom91_	thanks :D
15:03	noonian	,(list (into [[1 2]] (if true [[3 4]])))
15:03	clojurebot	([[1 2] [3 4]])
15:03	noonian	grumble
15:03	DaReaper5	lol
15:04	noonian	,(apply list (into [[1 2]] (if true [[3 4]])))
15:04	clojurebot	([1 2] [3 4])
15:04	noonian	thats probably how i would do it
15:05	noonian	into with lists adds at the front since it will use conj
15:05	amalloy	noonian: apply list is bizarre. just call seq
15:05	SagiCZ1	in java i could use "return" to return a result from a function (method) and the rest was not executed.. in clojure most of the expressions return the last thing they evaluate, but then the execution continues. how would i simulate return statement from java? see example
15:06	SagiCZ1	,(let [x 10] (when (> x 5) x) (println "yo"))
15:06	clojurebot	yo\n
15:06	SagiCZ1	here i would expect the form to return 10
15:06	noonian	amalloy: yeah, but seq probably wont return a list :P
15:06	amalloy	noonian: who cares?
15:06	DaReaper5	i care?
15:06	amalloy	SagiCZ1: just don't do it. use if/cond/whatever to structure your function such that you don't enter into code paths you don't want to run
15:06	DaReaper5	maybe?
15:07	SagiCZ1	amalloy: ok, thats the idiomatic ways i presume?
15:07	noonian	amalloy: i just didn't want to make any assumptions about DaReaper5's requirements, but you're right normally you shouldn't have to care
15:07	amalloy	DaReaper5: i sincerely doubt it. there are cases where you need specifically a list instead of of a general seq, but they are not common and i wouldn't expect someone having trouble conditionally concatting a list to be in one
15:08	noonian	SagiCZ1: let returns the last value in the body of the form which is (println "yo") in that case and returns nil
15:08	amalloy	SagiCZ1: it's the only way. there is no such thing as early return
15:08	SagiCZ1	thanks guys
15:09	SagiCZ1	the functions actually might look a bit cleaner without the early returns
15:09	amalloy	they usually do, as it turns out. a miracle of nature
15:17	SagiCZ1	when you are using < > where do you put the constant and where the symbol?
15:17	SagiCZ1	(> x 10) or (< x 10) ?
15:18	TimMc	I almost always use <
15:18	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: dym (> x 10) or (< 10 x)
15:19	Bronsa	I always use < too
15:19	TimMc	because then I see < and think "the following are in ascending order"
15:19	TimMc	(descending order is just weird)
15:20	justin_smith	TimMc: prio-queue
15:21	SagiCZ1	makes sense.. i was using "constant always first" and i have already made some nasty bugs.. A > B is way more natural
15:26	TimMc	SagiCZ1: By the way, you can also do (< 0 x 10)
15:26	amalloy	TimMc: always using < seems weird. surely there are places where it's more natural to say "if X is greater than 10" rather than "unless 10 is less than X"
15:27	TimMc	amalloy: Oh, I'm sure there are exceptions. Let me check some codebases...
15:28	amalloy	i just surveyed some of my old code and it looks five of my eight comparisons use < or <=, the other three being >
15:28	csd_	Any tips on how to troubleshoot java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space?
15:28	justin_smith	csd_: a profiler will show you what is using the most memory
15:29	amalloy	csd_: don't def infinite sequences
15:29	dbasch	csd_: that's an extremely generic error, what is causing it?
15:29	justin_smith	csd_: one common culprit is holding onto the head of lazy seqs
15:29	amalloy	(this is hardly the only cause, but i'd say about 75% of the time that's the reason)
15:29	SagiCZ1	TimMc: thanks for tip!
15:29	clojurebot	It's greek to me.
15:29	TimMc	51 vs 14 on < vs >
15:30	SagiCZ1	how do you come up with those numbers so fast
15:30	csd_	dbasch: http://pastebin.com/XJH0NAQx
15:30	csd_	working on http://www.4clojure.com/problem/108
15:30	TimMc	but about even on random open source projects I happened to have lying around
15:30	justin_smith	csd_: mapcat identity is a weird way to say apply concat
15:30	TimMc	SagiCZ1: grep '(<' -nr work/ --include='*.clj' \| wc -l
15:31	SagiCZ1	TimMc: i see.. hax
15:31	TimMc	sure
15:31	olasuka	SagiCZ1: grep -ir '<' . \| wc -l
15:31	SagiCZ1	;)
15:31	olasuka	too late
15:31	TimMc	olasuka: I think -i just makes it slower there, and nothing else.
15:31	amalloy	TimMc: that can catch some weird outliers, like an old project i worked on defines a << operator. i'd be a little more careful, like `grep -P '\(<[\s=]' ...`
15:32	SagiCZ1	let me take my Windows and go sit in the corner quietely
15:32	TimMc	amalloy: I did it first without the wc and actually skimmed the results.
15:32	olasuka	yeah, that is probably true... habit
15:33	amalloy	anyway, 51/14 is pretty extreme
15:33	AeroNotix	You can't loop/recur in a defrecord's methods?
15:33	justin_smith	csd_: in that paste, you are piling up calls to lazy-seq
15:34	justin_smith	csd_: also, that's a lot of unforced concat usage you are piling up too
15:34	csd_	justin_smith: i know... sorta just kept sticking them trying to get the code to run
15:34	amalloy	AeroNotix: sure you can
15:35	justin_smith	when you wrap a lazy-seq in a lazy-seq etc (or a concat on a concat etc.) this builds up unforced thunks - and you can blow the stack once the top one is finally forced
15:35	justin_smith	or the heap if your settings are strict enough or you go crazy enough with the stacking...
15:35	dbasch	csd_: lazy-seq of filter does nothing useful
15:35	justin_smith	dbasch: it will use extra resources, maybe someone wants that :)
15:36	dbasch	justin_smith: yes, that's useful like being morbidly obese is useful
15:36	csd_	dbasch: figured.. evidence of desperation
15:36	justin_smith	csd_: these things are what are driving up your heap usage
15:37	amalloy	TimMc: when i run your script over only the projects i've actually worked on, it comes out to a remarkably balanced 274/280
15:37	AeroNotix	amalloy: not sure why it was telling me I couldn't then
15:37	AeroNotix	whatever
15:37	technomancy	(inc <)
15:37	lazybot	⇒ 1
15:38	amalloy	justin_smith: c'mon, the excess calls to lazy-seq are not going to be so much of a problem he blows the heap. he's got to have an infinite seq in there somewhere
15:39	justin_smith	amalloy: well, the code in the 4clojure problem supplies him with infinite seqs, yeah
15:40	dbasch	csd_: what is min-s supposed to do?
15:40	csd_	the code in the pastebin actually doesnt have the infinite sequence tests in it
15:41	csd_	dbasch: for seqs where their first element are the smallest elements in the seq of seqs, min-s returns `rest` of those seqs
15:41	justin_smith	csd_: you don't need to explicitly create any lazy sequences yourself - if the input is lazy, you just need to use it in a way that doesn't force that whole thing
15:41	dbasch	csd_: have you tried it? I suspect it doesn't work
15:43	dbasch	csd_: never mind, that part works
15:43	justin_smith	csd_: why mapcat across all your inputs? how do you even know if something is present in all of them after doing that?
15:44	dbasch	csd_: but I pasted your code into my repl and I get a different error
15:45	csd_	justin_smith: it's just my way of doing a partial flatten to get rid of the new list element that the results of filter are put in
15:47	justin_smith	csd_: I'm not going to just answer the puzzle for you, but there is a much simpler solution to this puzzle that requires like 10% as much code - this code is a lot more complex than the problem is
15:47	justin_smith	ok, more like 33%, but still
15:48	technomancy	amalloy_lunch: "are these numbers presented in increasing order" seems like a more common question to ask than decreasing.
15:49	technomancy	just like + is more common than -
15:49	abaranosky	Canvassing for votes for my clojure.core patch, that adds convenience arities for core ns functions. Any upvotes gretly appreciated :) http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1519
15:50	justin_smith	abaranosky: markdown ate your * on ns
15:50	abaranosky	hmmm gretly turns out not to be an alternate spelling for greatly :)
15:50	abaranosky	justin_smith: thanks. I'll try to edit the ticket.
15:51	justin_smith	`ns` should fix it
15:51	abaranosky	justin_smith: thanks, fixed
15:51	abaranosky	I used backslashes
15:51	justin_smith	that's another option
15:52	justin_smith	markdown often confuses me
15:54	TimMc	Jira uses markdown?
15:56	justin_smith	TimMc: not totally certain, but it clearly turned ns into to <b>ns</b>
15:57	SagiCZ1	hey.. why does this print true? when the expression is equal to one of the cases.. it shouldnt print true, right? https://www.refheap.com/90065
15:59	justin_smith	what is the type of KeyEvent/VK_RIGHT ?
15:59	SagiCZ1	int
15:59	llasram	SagiCZ1: Because `case` doesn't evaluate its dispatch values
15:59	SagiCZ1	and .getKeyCode returns int
15:59	hiredman	,(doc case)
15:59	clojurebot	"([e & clauses]); Takes an expression, and a set of clauses. Each clause can take the form of either: test-constant result-expr (test-constant1 ... test-constantN) result-expr The test-constants are not evaluated. They must be compile-time literals, and need not be quoted. If the expression is equal to a test-constant, the corresponding result-expr is returned. A single default expression can foll...
15:59	hiredman	"The test-constants are not evaluated
15:59	hiredman	"
15:59	SagiCZ1	i dont need them to be evaluated
15:59	SagiCZ1	they are just constants
16:00	hiredman	,(type 'KeyEvent/VK_RIGHT)
16:00	clojurebot	clojure.lang.Symbol
16:00	justin_smith	the values are not being resolved
16:00	hiredman	^- what you get without evaluation
16:00	SagiCZ1	o u mean the symbols are not resolved?
16:00	SagiCZ1	well that's useless then ...
16:00	hiredman	that is a process that takes place in evaluation/compilation
16:01	llasram	SagiCZ1: For this sort of situation, I use a macro like https://gist.github.com/llasram/1287230
16:01	SagiCZ1	llasram: and without your macro i would have a better luck with something like cond, right<
16:01	SagiCZ1	?
16:01	llasram	Yes
16:01	justin_smith	or even condp
16:02	llasram	justin_smith: That's "something like cond" ;-)
16:02	justin_smith	,(condp = 1 0 :? 1 :ok 2 :?)
16:02	clojurebot	:ok
16:02	justin_smith	llasram: indeed
16:02	SagiCZ1	(doc condp)
16:02	clojurebot	"([pred expr & clauses]); Takes a binary predicate, an expression, and a set of clauses. Each clause can take the form of either: test-expr result-expr test-expr :>> result-fn Note :>> is an ordinary keyword. For each clause, (pred test-expr expr) is evaluated. If it returns logical true, the clause is a match. If a binary clause matches, the result-expr is returned, if a ternary clause matches, its result-fn, which m
16:03	SagiCZ1	god, i hate these docs.. could be in finnish as far as i am concerned
16:04	justin_smith	~finnish
16:04	clojurebot	excusez-moi
16:04	justin_smith	I hoped to get the "it's greek to me" response
16:04	SagiCZ1	justin_smith: heh
16:10	llasram	They are better in the original Klingon.
16:10	noonian	(inc llasram)
16:10	lazybot	⇒ 38
16:24	ticking	dnolen_: do you think it'd make sense to have an "inline sourcemaps" compiler opt, to embed a base64 encoded, sourceContents filled, source map into the output?
16:25	dnolen_	ticking: already exists
16:25	ticking	dnolen_: awesome, seems undocumented :D
16:27	airj1012_	I haven't been on IRC in YEARS, is there a good channel to ask questions about general technology?
16:27	airj1012_	Not sure if this is a good starting place or not.
16:27	technomancy	it is the second-best channel to do so
16:28	airj1012_	Awesome, well I have a question about the new iPhone, more specifically about the 20 LTE bands.
16:28	technomancy	oh, it's probably a terrible place for that?
16:28	technomancy	I thought you meant more like PLT stuff
16:28	amalloy	technomancy assumes "general technology" means clojure, because what could be more general
16:29	technomancy	amalloy: technologies for generals. robot armies, submarines, lasers, etc.
16:29	airj1012_	Do the bands only provide better download/upload speeds or do they provide better connection too? Also will they cause additional strains on the existing network? I can't say that I've ever paid attention to the bands before because I don't think Apple has ever mentioned them,
16:29	amalloy	airj1012_: i don't really know where a good place for that is. surely there's an IRC channel, although i don't know what it is. you could try reddit
16:29	amalloy	or hacker news
16:29	airj1012_	OK, thanks
16:30	technomancy	amalloy: actually I thought it would be more a philosophical discussion about the progress of technology in general and how it affects the development of societies
16:30	technomancy	so let's talk about that instead of iphones
16:30	ticking	iphones are the doom of our society
16:30	technomancy	that too
16:30	amalloy	thank god the apple watch is here to save us
16:31	ticking	amalloy: I cant wait for apple to build guard towers to protect us, also called the "apple watch" leading to some customer confusion
16:31	technomancy	ticking: they did it with iBooks, why not
16:34	dnolen_	ticking: oh sorry didn't read closely enough, yeah not a compiler option but that's what the browser REPL does
16:34	dnolen_	ticking: don't really see the value of that for regular source
16:34	ticking	dnolen_: its hidden within :output-to :print right?
16:35	dnolen_	ticking: there's no complier option, it's a feature of browser REPL only
16:36	ticking	dnolen_: ah I see, this line got my hopes up :) https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/blob/master/src/clj/cljs/closure.clj#L849
16:36	dnolen_	ticking: that's just the separate file case
16:38	ticking	dnolen_: to bad thanks :D, as for the use case, I'm currently integrating cljs into gorilla repl to make it more interactive, having source maps embedded means that one can export the file and still debug it later :D
16:38	dnolen_	ticking: you can off course cobble this together yourself
16:38	ticking	dnolen_: but I agree, its a rather weird edge case
16:39	ticking	dnolen_: yeah build it already, was just wondering if it would be usefull in cljs
16:39	dnolen_	ticking: we have it where people actually asked for it https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/blob/master/src/clj/cljs/repl.clj#L94
16:43	ticking	dnolen_: ah yeah to bad, there is a lot of good stuff in .repl that would be really handy in .closure :/
16:44	ticking	dnolen_: I don't think a sourcemap is generated at all for code passed in a vector to closure/build
16:48	dnolen_	ticking: it's possible, most people don't pass code in vector, they just pass the source directory
16:49	ticking	yeah, I really like the define once compile anywhere approach of mathematica though ;)
16:51	SagiCZ1	i want to generate values but i need the generator function to know what the last value was.. any ideas?
16:52	llasram	SagiCZ1: `iterate`
16:52	SagiCZ1	llasram: i think thats exactly what i need
16:52	SagiCZ1	thank you
16:56	arohner	what are people using for cronjobs & queues these days?
17:08	GENSYM_9001	clojurebot: bang \|is\| I do not think there is a hard definition of what ! means as a suffix. ~puredanger
17:08	clojurebot	Ik begrijp
17:09	noonian	very generally it means "watch out!"
17:09	arrdem	noonian: and yet we have things like alter-var-root which should carry ultimate warning status that aren't -!'d
17:12	noonian	yeah, i think it is kind of historical and ! originally mean unsafe in a transaction
17:12	mdrogalis	arrdem: I like how technomancy and I both have libraries that solely revolve around using alter-var-root. They need a Use with Extreme Caution label on GitHub.
17:12	noonian	but now they are adding more ! fns just to mean scary
17:13	arrdem	mdrogalis: :D
17:13	justin_smith	noonian: I vote to switching over to ☠
17:13	arrdem	mdrogalis: sometimes you do, in fact, need to harnes a dragon
17:13	arrdem	justin_smith: UTF8's DANGER SIGN?
17:13	mdrogalis	arrdem: How to Train Your Var.
17:13	arrdem	hehe
17:14	arrdem	mdrogalis: my vars have all learned this vanishing trick :D
17:14	mdrogalis	Haha
17:15	noonian	justin_smith: lol
17:15	pandeiro	is there an example of using jetty's built-in websocket support from clojure when deploying as a war?
17:15	pandeiro	ie, can someone translate [this](http://www.eclipse.org/jetty/documentation/current/jetty-websocket-server-api.html) for a java-challenged person like myself?
17:15	justin_smith	(☠set☠ unsafe-thing even-more-unsafe-value)
17:16	noonian	pandeiro: might be interested in https://github.com/lynaghk/jetty7-websockets-async
17:17	arrdem	see... when we start talking about -! my mind starts wandering in the direction of the IO monand and inferred, enforced purity..
17:18	pandeiro	noonian: thanks i should read that and this maybe https://github.com/sunng87/ring-jetty9-adapter
17:18	dbasch	justin_smith: perhaps set‽
17:19	justin_smith	⸘set‽ a-la espanol
17:26	arrdem	should ":::" be ":user/:" ?
17:26	mdrogalis	Has anyone attempted to use Drools in Clojure before?
17:27	mdrogalis	It looks like this is gonna hurt ;[
17:27	amalloy	arrdem: that should be an invalid token
17:29	hiredman	mdrogalis: I started looking at writing rules in clojure at one point, but I never got very far, it is a big system so you end up spending a lot of time reading docs and code
17:30	hugod	mdrogalis: you might take a look at https://github.com/rbrush/clara-rules
17:30	mdrogalis	hiredman & hugod: I saw Clara, developed by one person so I'm not sure if I can take it to production for my client.
17:31	mdrogalis	I think I need to put these guys on Datomic datalog. Drools like incredibly painful.
17:31	mdrogalis	looks*
17:32	hiredman	there is or was a jess based lisp like (definitely not a lisp internally) dsl for writing drools rules
17:32	mdrogalis	Ran into that one, too. Not sure if its being actively developed anymore. Seems a bit aged.
17:39	cfleming	arrdem: BTW for your matching problem, have you considered datalog of some type?
17:40	arrdem	cfleming: I've thought about it and I need to really learn/play with datalog first. that was just a hack I threw together in class.
17:40	cfleming	arrdem: Yeah, I don't know datomic well enough to know how well it would work, but I know people have tried to use it for similar things (like codeq)
17:41	Bronsa	https://github.com/clojure/tools.analyzer/blob/master/src/main/clojure/clojure/tools/analyzer/ast/query.clj#L83-L93
17:42	arrdem	cfleming: Bronsa already played with pushing ASTs into datomic for pattern matching. I can't say I'm hot for writing a compiler atop a nonfree db tho.
17:42	arrdem	lol and he beats me to it with the link
17:43	cfleming	arrdem: Yeah, I can understand that. A free datalog implementation would be great, even if it's not as performant as datomic.
17:43	cfleming	arrdem: No idea what's out there, such a thing might exist.
17:43	arrdem	cfleming: there's already one for Clojure I just haven't mucked with it yet.
17:43	cfleming	Bronsa: how did you like datomic for AST use?
17:44	Bronsa	cfleming: I've just played around with it for a couple of days when I made that
17:46	Bronsa	cfleming: unfortunately the non-free aspect of datomic means that I'm never going to use it in a library so I'm not even going to bother trying that out to do something complex enough
17:50	peeja	Anyone have experience getting fireplace.vim to connect to a browser-connected Piggieback repl?
17:50	thesaskwatch	Can't find out what is purpose of "when" if "if" can be used for this same cause?
17:50	technomancy	thesaskwatch: when has an implicit `do`
17:50	thesaskwatch	technomancy: thanks
17:50	peeja	I can get it to spawn a headless repl, but not connect to a running browser-connected one.
18:14	cfleming	Bronsa: Yeah, fair enough
18:20	talios	cfleming - hola. Ran into some old posts of yours from 2011 talking about writing a Mirah plugin for IntelliJ - did you actually do anything with that back in the day?
18:21	cfleming	talios: Hola! No, I didn't, sadly.
18:21	cfleming	talios: I decided that ruby syntax was a bug, not a feature.
18:21	cfleming	talios: I'd be using Kotlin for similar things these days.
18:22	talios	hah :)
18:23	talios	I'd love to - but the rest here are hell bent of clojure-all-the-things, even if they don't fit :)
18:23	cfleming	talios: Hehe, I have no comment. And I couldn't possibly sanction the use of any other language plugins :-)
18:24	talios	I'm still waiting on an IJ14 build :)
18:24	cfleming	Sigh, yeah, I know - I'm lazy.
18:24	cfleming	I'll do it soon.
18:24	cfleming	I hate supporting EAP builds.
18:26	talios	is the documentation around IJ plugins any better these days? I've not looked in awhile
18:26	cfleming	talios: Nope. Fortunately I have a mole at Jetbrains, if not I'd spend half my life trying to figure things out.
18:27	cfleming	Having a mole gets that down to around a quarter or so.
18:27	technomancy	is kotlin also designed for zero runtime overhead?
18:27	talios	:) It's a shame the wiki doesn't get maintained more for the OpenAPI
18:27	talios	technomancy - there's a small runtime lib with the core classes/annotations etc.
18:27	cfleming	technomancy: Not quite I think, but it's pretty low.
18:28	talios	there's also a minimal stdlib. that was one of the nice things with Mirah
18:28	cfleming	Yeah, I liked that about Mirah
18:28	technomancy	mirah has literally zero
18:28	technomancy	at least when I looked at it
18:28	cfleming	I have no idea how stable Mirah is these days - I always liked the idea.
18:29	talios	It came to mind after spotting http://sjhannah.com/blog/?p=331 - a new Mirah plugin for Netbeans. And a screencast showing writing iPhone apps.... in Mirah
18:29	cfleming	How did they do that? Does Mirah compile to Java or bytecode?
18:30	talios	cfleming - mirah goes to bytecode, with the option of generating .java files on disk
18:31	cfleming	Ok, did they use j2objc?
18:31	talios	There's also a simple maven plugin - https://github.com/mirah/maven-mirah-plugin - the language itself doesn't appear to have changed much ( if at all ) since it's last release
18:31	cfleming	When was that?
18:31	talios	cfleming - for the iOS stuff? Not sure - it's using http://www.codenameone.com/
18:32	talios	cfleming - oh wow - 08-Aug-2014 the the last mirah deploy to maven central.
18:32	talios	interesting
18:32	talios	I wonder whats actually changed.
18:34	turbofail	so i just found out the process control computer for the chernobyl plant was called "SKALA"
18:41	talios	lolz
18:42	cfleming	talios: So does Mirah have no stdlib?
18:42	talios	cfleming - nope.
18:42	cfleming	Interesting.
18:42	cfleming	Doesn't everyone end up re-implementing map and filter, then? Or are there non-standard stdlibs?
18:43	talios	map and that seem to be build into the language
18:44	tadni_	You'd think this would be a natural next step.
18:44	cfleming	talios: hmm, not sure I like that - I think I'd prefer a (small) stdlib, to be honest.
18:44	cfleming	tadni_: startup time is the issue.
18:45	cfleming	tadni_: There are some efforts underway to fix that - 1.7 will hopefully be a bit better.
18:45	tadni_	I suppose that's why one might see a play-clj game on Android too ... load times can be partially justified.
18:46	talios	mmm, didn't realize Mirah had macros. nice,.
18:47	cfleming	talios: Ruby syntax and macros - the worst of all possible worlds for editor support :-)
18:47	technomancy	also the compiler had to boot all of jruby
18:47	technomancy	with no incremental compilation support or caching
18:48	cfleming	Yeah, I think compile time is an issue for Kotlin too right now, I don't think it's incremental yet.
18:48	cfleming	Although they're targeting Java compile speed and incremental compilation, so sooner or later it should be nice.
18:50	technomancy	yeah... I was briefly interested in Mirah because it seemed it might make mobile development less painful... but it's going to take a lot more than a programming language to do that
18:51	talios	cfleming - it's faster than Scala's compiler :) But I also think thats in large part to people doing multi-module builds all the time with the type checker is forced to infer everything. I'd imagine .jar dependencies would also be resolved.
18:52	cfleming	Faster than Scala's compiler?!?! Way to set the bar low...
18:53	technomancy	Faster compilation times than Scala; better language semantics than Java, less cryptic error messages than Clojure--this language has it all.
18:55	aperiodic	technomancy: don't forget a richer numeric type system than javascript
18:57	talios	technomancy - it has no Eclipse support, so Kotlin will still fail )
18:58	technomancy	nom
18:59	talios	I saw it pop up again last week - didn't think it was still being maintained
18:59	technomancy	it's a very impressive project for a one-man show
18:59	cfleming	Erjang? I think so.
18:59	cfleming	That it's being maintained, that is.
19:00	cfleming	It's amazing how well the lightweight threads work on the JVM.
19:00	talios	a lot of these languages are - I really like the look of yeti as well ( altho, I don't like the if/elif style syntax ) for a nice ML style JVM language. Still only 1-2 people.
19:00	cfleming	There's actually a new release of OCaml-Java out there too.
19:00	talios	and sadly never published to maven-central, someone even wrote a maven plugin for it, also unpublished. so kinda hard to just "hey lets try this"
19:01	cfleming	Relatively recently.
19:01	talios	cfleming - nice, the last few updates have been interesting. Interop is still an issue I find.
19:01	technomancy	talios: org.clojars.talios/yeti =)
19:01	cfleming	talios: have you tried it?
19:02	talios	cfleming - only to the point of Hello World :) and looking at what code it generates. The later releases now let you NOT include the prelude/stdlib in the generated code ( they all kinda presume static linking, non-modular jar based things ).
19:04	talios	cfleming - calling OUT to the java may be fine (ish). but real interop is a two-way story IMHO. If you can't generate JDK annotations somehow, you're hurting interop.
19:04	cfleming	talios: Yeah, I suffer a bit in Clojure too TBH
19:05	talios	took a long while to get annotation support in clojure, still not sure I entirely like the syntax for it - but there's not much you can do there really.
19:07	cfleming	I'm a man of simple needs - I'd just like to be able to generate a named class that extends an abstract class.
19:07	cfleming	Without resorting to gen-class.
19:08	noonian	whats wrong with resorting to gen-class, i thought extending existing classes was the whole reason its in clojure
19:08	cfleming	It is, but it's awful to use.
19:09	cfleming	I'd like something like deftype.
19:09	amalloy	i don't really use gen-class. if i want to create a class that's not easy in clojure, i just do it in java within the same project, along with producing an interface that my clojure code can reify to cooperate in the process
19:09	talios	cfleming - (nsclass) as a macro would be nice - but er, how do you import it - unless you have a nested (ns) call :)
19:10	cfleming	amalloy: Yeah, I create Java classes and then call into Clojure from there
19:10	cfleming	amalloy: I ended up doing it so much I added support to Cursive for it - I'd still prefer some better interop forms for that though.
19:10	juliobarros	Is there an idiomatic way to replace an item in a vector based on a predicate? I have a vec of records and I get an updated one and want to find and swap out the item based on the id. Have a fn working with keep-indexed but want to see if that is written somewhere already.
19:11	technomancy	is the awfulness of gen-class just that it requires AOT?
19:11	technomancy	(if so, how is a java class any better?)
19:11	cfleming	I spoke to Rich about it at EuroClojure, he seemed open to forms similar to deftype and reify that allow class extension, perhaps in an interop-specific namespace.
19:12	amalloy	technomancy: a java class is better because it includes something more palatable to a java consumer: some java source code
19:12	cfleming	technomancy: No, the awfulness of gen-class is mostly the syntax.
19:12	aperiodic	technomancy: it's more than just that. how it actually maps to a java class & interacts with e.g. protected fields is confusing
19:12	cfleming	aperiodic: right, and very easy to get wrong.
19:12	clojurebot	It's greek to me.
19:12	technomancy	amalloy: I've never actually wanted that; I've only used it when interoping with APIs that make the questionable design choice of requiring a named class
19:13	noonian	how much of a pita is it to add some java source files to an existing leiningen project?
19:13	technomancy	I mean I can see how that'd be useful in a very specific set of circumstances
19:13	amalloy	noonian: like a micro-pita
19:13	technomancy	but I wouldn't summarize that as "gen-class is awful"
19:13	cfleming	technomancy: questionable or not, tons of Java libs require it, especially if you're integrating with a framework.
19:13	hiredman	it is though
19:13	noonian	amalloy: nice, i can usually handle the micro ones
19:14	talios	AOT for life baby
19:14	amalloy	technomancy: as someone who works with java developers regularly, i need that a lot more often than i need to deal with something that wants a named class
19:14	amalloy	like, i define some interfaces in java, and one stub class for calling clojure functions which reify those interfaces
19:14	amalloy	and then, tada, two-way interop
19:14	technomancy	"gen-class syntax is awful, so I'll use java syntax instead" doesn't make any sense either
19:15	cfleming	technomancy: sure it does.
19:15	noonian	lol
19:15	talios	that, or a guice module
19:16	cfleming	To extend an abstract class, generally I need less code to do it in Java and call into Clojure than with gen-class.
19:16	SegFaultAX	It makes sense if you think of it like: it's going to be awful no matter what, so at least I can make it natively awful.
19:16	technomancy	"I don't like oatmeal, so I'll eat dirt instead"
19:16	amalloy	i just can't ever read "guice" without imagining it pronounced as "gwice"
19:16	aperiodic	technomancy: it's more "I don't want to force everyone to learn how gen-class maps to a java class, I'll just write a java class instead"
19:16	technomancy	aperiodic: I get that sometimes social considerations trump technical ones, sure
19:17	cfleming	Plus if you're talking Java consumers, you can Javadoc a stub class.
19:18	cfleming	technomancy: which is the oatmeal, and which is the dirt, is the question.
19:19	talios	cfleming - can't you use deftype tho?
19:19	cfleming	talios: Only if it's an interface, and even then I can't use it because deftype'd classes don't require their namespaces on class init.
19:20	cfleming	talios: About half the things I need to implement are abstract classes, no joy there.
19:20	amalloy	honestly building named classes with gen-class is less pleasant than doing it in java, imo. use clojure for what it's good at, and java for what it's good at
19:20	talios	cfleming - true. that require bug is one that shoudl really be fixed. import should implicitly require imho - somehow.
19:21	cfleming	amalloy: Right, exactly.
19:21	talios	cfleming - a variant of (proxy) that let you add arbitrary methods would be good.
19:21	cfleming	talios: there's a Jira, it's slated for 1.7 I think.
19:22	cfleming	I'd like a fast version of proxy too, since I never actually use the proxying features (i.e. reify, but allowing extension).
19:22	aperiodic	technomancy: the problem with gen-class is that it is an abstraction around java classes that is complicated and for which there exists no payoff for learning, other than you can create a java class in clojure in a way that is harder to understand than just creating the java class in java.
19:23	amalloy	it just occurred to me: is there even a version of reify in java that allows implementing multiple interfaces? i know you can use a local named class, or new up an anonymous instance of a single interface, but i don't know of a way to anonymously implement several interfaces
19:23	aperiodic	also it brings AOT in all its transitive goodness along for the ride
19:23	cfleming	amalloy: I don't think so, no.
19:23	noonian	guice rhymes with grease right?
19:24	technomancy	aperiodic: that's not a fair comparison, a java class that calls clojure code also requires AOT
19:24	talios	aperiodic - IMHO, if you're doing heavy java interop, embrace AOT.
19:24	technomancy	(or runtime resolution, which would also not require AOT in gen-class)
19:24	pdk	what context noonian
19:24	pdk	or do you mean guise
19:24	amalloy	we were talking about google gwice earlier, pdk
19:24	amalloy	rhymes with rice
19:26	noonian	ah
19:26	noonian	thanks
19:26	noonian	i've mainly seen the word guice in stacktraces when using pallet
19:26	aperiodic	technomancy, talios: alright, strike the AOT point then (though sometimes you're just gluing together other java components and writing the java class can let you avoid AOT entirely)
19:26	amalloy	noonian: it's actually supposed to be pronounced like juice
19:27	technomancy	aperiodic: I don't see the point of avoiding non-transitive AOT though
19:27	amalloy	but that pronunciation is so silly i pick other vowel sounds instead
19:27	technomancy	I mean, there are problems with reloading, sure. but they're the same problmes you have with a raw java class.
19:27	noonian	huh, kind of like the Oneders
19:28	amalloy	you mean the oh-nedders?
19:28	aperiodic	technomancy: you still end up with a transitively-compiled clojure.core at the very least, right?
19:29	technomancy	aperiodic: that's unavoidable =)
19:29	noonian	amalloy: yep :)
19:29	technomancy	clojure.core is always AOT'd
19:29	talios	IMHO the only real problem with AOT is you end up with binary compatibility issues, landing you in the same camp of scala was. And depending on your runtime environment ( say OSGi ) - you almost always need to AOT first anyway to save pain.
19:30	technomancy	talios: it leads to really painful reloading problems if you use protocols
19:30	aperiodic	ok, totally strike the AOT point then
19:31	talios	technomancy - doh. mind you - hot swapping code in the JVM gives you gnarly problems at the best of times too
19:31	justin_smith	talios: thus tools like jrebel, right?
19:32	technomancy	talios: this is exactly the problem vars were designed to solve
19:32	technomancy	they do an awesome job
19:32	technomancy	it's everything-that-isn't-a-var that sucks at it
19:33	talios	justin_smith - you say that llike jrebel actually works 100% :)
19:33	technomancy	literally the only reason vars exist
19:33	llasram	Narm. Why does melpa-stable list packages for which it does not actually have packages :-(
19:33	justin_smith	talios: I have no idea whether it even works, actually
19:33	technomancy	I feel like if people really understood vars, they would be more hesitant to reach for other things.
19:34	talios	justin_smith - for the most part it does, tho I've heard some nasty stories for some of its integration. I see they also killed their live-rebel project, with an interesting analysis of the failed commercial project
19:35	cfleming	talios: I don't think JRebel would work with Clojure anyway, since you'd end up with the reloaded class in different DynamicClassLoaders.
19:35	talios	true
19:36	cfleming	I don't know how it handles multiple loaded versions of a class with the same FQN.
19:37	technomancy	it would be interesting to construct a type that had a reified notion of schema change over time
19:37	technomancy	so you could have multiple versions of it resident at once with declaratively-generated conversion functions between any two versions
19:39	cfleming	technomancy: at my last job we implemented something fairly similar to that on top of OSGi.
19:39	cfleming	It's basically a nightmare.
19:39	technomancy	it sounds like it would be horrible for classes that conflate data and behaviour
19:40	cfleming	Even just for data it's pretty bad, if there are dependencies between the data in more than one object.
19:40	technomancy	erlang has a very primitive version of this with code_change, but it only works with a maximum of two versions at a time
19:40	technomancy	(because it only exists in order to support hot-deploys)
19:41	tbaldrid_	technomancy: Joe Armstrong admitted in some talk recently that that was a GC issue and that if they had it to do over again it would be unlimited.
19:41	technomancy	tbaldrid_: huh, interesting
19:41	tbaldrid_	GC or something related to some implementation detail of the VM like the number of bits in some flag or something
19:42	technomancy	implementation details like "it was the 80s; it seemed like a good idea at the time"
19:44	justin_smith	yet another connection between excessive usage of hairspray, spandex, cocaine, and erlang
19:56	ncthom91	hi all. How do you use `with-redefs-fn` on a method of an object?
19:56	hiredman	you don't
19:56	hiredman	ever
19:57	ncthom91	hiredman for real?
19:57	hiredman	with-redefs* are for mocking/stubbing/etc in tests
19:57	ncthom91	yep, that's what i'm using it for
19:57	amalloy	specifically, for mocking clojure functions
19:57	amalloy	and methods on objects are not clojure functions
19:57	hiredman	right
19:58	hiredman	there you go
19:58	ncthom91	ah. I'm working in clojurescript and I was planning on mocking out node's `fs.readFile`
19:58	ncthom91	is there a sane way to do that?
19:59	justin_smith	ncthom91: by using a wrapper that is a proper function (thin wrapper) and mocking that?
19:59	hiredman	ah, clojure script is another kettle of fish
19:59	hiredman	it may just work
19:59	hiredman	fs.readFile is a global function?
19:59	ncthom91	justin_smith that's a possibility
20:00	ncthom91	hiredman not quite, i have `(def fs (js/require "fs"))` at the top of my file
20:03	ncthom91	also, would anyone be willing to help me try to understand core.async? I have a simple read-file function (http://pastebin.com/ypB4ty3Y) and I'd like to switch it to use the async `readFile` rather than the sync one
20:04	dnolen_	ncthom91: hm, looks like that would just work
20:04	dnolen_	ncthom91: using with-redefs-fn in CLJS that way
20:04	ncthom91	dnolen_ oh sweet
20:04	dnolen_	ncthom91: you can write a generic Node.js callback adapter since all functions work the same way
20:05	dnolen_	it can take a normal Node.js function and return a channel returning fn instead
20:05	dnolen_	you just have to choose how to handle errors, in the case of Node.js I would probably just write the error value onto the channel
20:05	dnolen_	basically the same thing that people do to adapt Node.js fns to promises
20:07	ncthom91	dnolen_ so, a few questions: If I use `with-redefs-fn`, how do I reference the fs.readFile method without calling it?
20:07	ncthom91	(I'm a hardcore clojure & clojurescript newb)
20:07	dnolen_	fs.readFile
20:07	ncthom91	oh. really?
20:08	dnolen_	yes
20:11	cfleming	dnolen_: The next drop of Cursive has your indentation fix.
20:14	ncthom91	dnolen_ hiredman so this passes: http://pastebin.com/5HF9heSW :)
20:14	ncthom91	throws an exception for some reason, but still passes
20:19	dbasch	ncthom91: you're missing parentheses around is
20:37	ncthom91	hm.. jk, it wasn't working. This warning is currently getting me: WARNING: Use of undeclared Var bundleup.test/with-redefs-fn at line 12 test/bundleup/test.cljs
20:38	ncthom91	think it has to do with that i'm using cemerick's clojurescript test library
20:52	yedi_	so with transducers, why is the transduce function necessary?
20:52	yedi_	why not just use into, and then reduce the result
20:52	yedi_	is it only for sugar?
20:53	justin_smith	yedi_: why into anything?
20:53	justin_smith	why create a structure that you immediately discard?
20:53	llasram	If anything its the `into` version somewhat superfluous
20:54	yedi_	hm, good point
20:58	yedi_	man transducers seem both incredibly simple, easy to use and mad useful
21:01	llasram	I mostly agree. I'm a bit worried there might be practical composibility issues, and do think the addition as new arities of existing functions is pretty warty
21:01	yedi_	warty yes, though its kinda cool that it just works
21:01	yedi_	i have a question regarding the end of this: http://gigasquidsoftware.com/blog/2014/09/06/green-eggs-and-transducers/
21:02	yedi_	she makes the sam-i-am-chan and then makes another channel that reduces the elements sent through the sam-i-am-chan
21:02	yedi_	why do you need to create the reduce channel?
21:03	yedi_	won't the channel only ever have one element go through it, since everything that comes through the initial channel gets reduced into what will come out the reduce-channel
21:03	yedi_	or is it more like
21:04	yedi_	it reduces everything that has been sent into the channel and only keeps a buffer of one element, once you take! from the reduce channel it starts again with a new result
21:04	yedi_	and reduces all the new stuff coming in to that new result
21:04	yedi_	(not sure if any of that made sense)
21:11	amalloy	yedi_: do you mean the result-chan? there's no reduce-chan in that article
21:12	amalloy	and yes, there will only ever be one thing written to the result-chan. you create that channel so that you can read that one value. how else would you propose doing it?
21:13	yedi_	yea i mean the result-chan
21:20	hiredman	https://gist.github.com/hiredman/d6ea3e30be757fef6da6 vroom
21:24	llasram	Nanoseconds, sweet
21:26	justin_smith	llasram: all the timings there are in microseconds?
21:26	llasram	justin_smith: look again
21:27	llasram	Oh, phhhft
21:27	llasram	Standard deviation nm
21:27	llasram	It's been a long day, he excuses
21:27	justin_smith	loop looks pretty good in those microbenchmarks
21:30	hiredman	sure, but loop lacks composiblity
21:30	justin_smith	right, it's a clumsy tool
21:31	Rosnec	I'm in the mood to watch a good ~1h talk by Rich Hickey
21:31	Rosnec	any suggestions?
21:32	hiredman	in theory I should be able to write a double-filter and slap it in there
21:33	hiredman	write some macros to generate transducer combinators for a given type and then generate them for all the jvm primitives
21:35	dbasch	Rosnec: http://thechangelog.com/rich-hickeys-greatest-hits/
21:35	Rosnec	dbasch: awesome
21:36	Rosnec	I think I'll watch hammock driven development
21:39	amalloy	heh. the disassembly for (loop [] (recur)) makes me chuckle. public Object invoke(); 0 goto 0; 3 areturn
21:39	justin_smith	amalloy: nice
21:40	amalloy	it couldn't really be otherwise, i guess, it just seems funny that (a) 0 goto 0 is an allowed instruction, and (2) you still have to return afterwards so that the verifier doesn't complain
21:41	amalloy	or anyway i presume the verifier is the reason that this silly areturn is there. maybe the clojure compiler just adds it for good measure
21:43	justin_smith	also, the fact that it is annotated to return Object
21:43	justin_smith	I guess everything in Clojure does
21:43	justin_smith	*almost
21:45	dbasch	justin_smith: that's probably why the areturn is there
21:49	amalloy	the weird thing, dbasch, is it seems to me like that areturn should actually be illegal: there's nothing on the stack to return. compare to #(loop []), which reads like: 0 aconst_null; 1 areturn
21:50	justin_smith	I guess everything is permitted for instructions that won't actually get invoked (but then, why is the instruction there?) http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r151/ll_Crayola_ll7/Emotes/iiamicon2.gif
21:58	dbasch	amalloy: I guess it depends on the interpretation of "If the method returns a reference type, it must do so using an areturn instruction, and the type of the returned value must be assignment compatible (JLS §5.2) with the return descriptor (§4.3.3) of the method."
21:59	dbasch	what is the sound of an infinite loop in a method that claims to return Object?
22:43	wildnux	hi, can i create two funtions with same name and same number of arguments but for different types of arguments in clojure?
22:44	wildnux	like overloaded methods in java?
22:45	llasram	wildnux: Not exactly, but you can create one function with multiple argument arities
22:45	yedi_	i'm trying to play an audio file from the browser in clojurescript leveraging this: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/HTMLAudioElement
22:45	llasram	wildnux: And you could create a multimethod which dispatched based no the number of arguments, although that would be unusual
22:46	yedi_	I tried doing '(def m1 (Audio. "resources/metronome.wav"))', but the Audio. fn is undefined
22:46	yedi_	anyone come across this b4?
22:46	wildnux	llasram: multimethods needs protocol or some structure right?
22:47	wildnux	llasram: i just want a simple function which works on multiple types of entites
22:52	llasram	wildnux: Can you be more specific about what you're trying to do?
22:54	wildnux	llasram: just a simple example, i want to write a funtion "in?" which can take one element or a list/vector/seq of elements
22:55	wildnux	llasram: it should check if that element is present in the specified seq for the first case, it should check if all the elements in the list is present in the seq in the second one
22:56	llasram	wildnux: What you're describing is still kind of ambiguous. The Java-style dispatch where the search element(s) would dispatch based on type (collection or not) would require a multimethod or explicit checks in Clojure
22:57	llasram	But you can easily dispatch on different arities, something like:
22:57	wildnux	llasram: aah
22:57	llasram	(defn in? ([coll x] ..) ([coll x & xs] ...))
22:57	llasram	(minus the fact that that would be an unusual argument order)
22:58	llasram	The latter sort of definition frequently lends itself to a recursive definition, which via `recur` can compile to a tail-recursive form
22:59	wildnux	llasram: can i pass a list to a vararg function?
23:00	llasram	I know that's just an example, but do also consider that higher order functions and function composition make that sort of thing less useful
23:00	llasram	If you have the single-element version of `in?` (which is basically `contains?`)
23:00	wildnux	llasram: contains? does not work as 'expected' for list :D
23:01	llasram	Er, yeah, sorry -- injecting confusion. `contains?` is for maps and sets, guaranteeing O(1) look-up
23:01	wildnux	llasram: one more question,
23:01	wildnux	i wrote in? and all-in? (for list)
23:01	llasram	List to a var arg function... You mean `apply`?
23:02	wildnux	llasram: what will be the best way to write a funtion which loops on a list and then returns the matching one based on the funtion passed
23:02	llasram	If I understand you correctly, usually `some` or `(comp first filter)`
23:02	wildnux	like (defn find-matching #(...) bigseq tosearchlist)
23:03	wildnux	llasram: that should return the list of matching ones
23:03	llasram	Not completely following. Could you provide an exact example of argument and what you'd expect the result to be?
23:03	llasram	arguments even
23:04	wildnux	llasram: (find-matching #(= % %) [1 2 3 4 5] [1 2 5 0 11] ) should return (1 2 5)
23:05	jtackett	hey how do you bold something in a text area?
23:05	jtackett	like the code for bold in a string
23:06	llasram	wildnux: So the intersection of the distinct elements in the two collections?
23:06	wildnux	llasram: yes :D
23:06	llasram	And in the order the appear... in the second collection?
23:06	wildnux	llasram: does not matter
23:06	jtackett	there is a function called intersection
23:07	llasram	,(require '[clojure.set :as set])
23:07	clojurebot	nil
23:07	wildnux	llasram: (find-matching #(= % %) [1 2 3 4 5] [1 2 9 10 5 0 11] ) can also return (1 2 5)
23:07	wildnux	llasram: ok
23:07	llasram	wildnux: What's the `#(= % %)` for? (which BTW is pretty much the same on its own as just `=`)
23:08	llasram	,(set/interection (set [1 2 3 4 5]) (set [1 2 5 0 11]))
23:08	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: No such var: set/interection, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
23:08	llasram	,(set/intersection (set [1 2 3 4 5]) (set [1 2 5 0 11]))
23:08	clojurebot	#{1 2 5}
23:08	llasram	Spelling helps
23:08	metellus	,(clojure.set/intersection (set [1 2 3 4 5]) (set [1 2 5 0 1]))
23:08	clojurebot	#{1 2 5}
23:08	llasram	If you have one large sequence, you can also do the same thing manually:
23:08	metellus	oh, llasram just did that
23:09	wildnux	llasram: the #(= % %) was just an example
23:09	llasram	,(filter #{1 2 3 4 5} '[1 2 5 0 11 lots more])
23:09	clojurebot	(1 2 5)
23:09	llasram	wildnux: Well, yes -- but of what? :-)
23:09	wildnux	llasram: i want to be able to find anything that matches
23:10	llasram	wildnux: That's the part I'm trying to understand. You want to define your own custom match predicate, which might be different from (hash) equality?
23:11	llasram	If so, then you're stuck doing the Cartesian product of your two sequences and applying your match function to (asymptotically) every pair
23:12	wildnux	llasram: i will give you a real world example, I have two list of records (or objects or whaterver), now i want to find the intersection between those two lists where somefuntion (eg: any element of list 1 is square of any element of list 2)
23:12	wildnux	llasram: yes
23:16	llasram	,(defn find-matching [f es coll] (filter #(some (partial f %) es) coll))
23:16	clojurebot	#'sandbox/find-matching
23:16	llasram	,(find-matching #(= %2 (* %1 %1)) [16 25] (range 20))
23:16	clojurebot	(4 5)
23:16	llasram	So like that then?
23:25	ncthom91	hey all. I'm working on a node/cljs project and trying to get a simple core.async read-file example going per http://bryangilbert.com/code/2013/07/19/escaping-callback-hell-with-core-async/. So far, I've got http://pastebin.com/Ms72g8Y3, but the return value is #<[object Object]> rather than the file contents and I'm confused about what i'm doing wrong
23:35	seancorfield	yogthos do you hang out in #clojurescript or just here?
23:36	yogthos	seancorfield: mostly here, I suppose I should join cljs as well :)
23:36	seancorfield	now you're maintaining some popular cljs libraries :)
23:37	yogthos	seancorfield: oh oh! :)
23:38	wildnux	llasram: how can we remove whitespaces from the middle of a string? like 'Ihave spaces \t\n in the string" to "ihavespacesinthestring"
23:39	jaju	yogthos: thanks for your cool libraries!
23:40	yogthos	glad they're getting some use :)
23:40	jaju	seancorfield: thanks for the nice write-up on your move to reagent
23:40	Jaood	is reagent still being maintained?
23:40	jaju	yogthos: I find your libraries very much useful and good guides for learning nice tricks too!
23:40	seancorfield	btw, took me a while to realize that reagent-form doesn't inherently create a :form tag and/or submit event stuff yogthos
23:41	seancorfield	jaju look at Whoops/reagent which is up to date
23:41	yogthos	wildnux: you can just use replaceAll (.replaceAll "Ihave spaces \t\n in the string" " " "")
23:41	jaju	No updates to reagent in a while I can see - but I had no issues moving my react dependency to 0.11.1
23:41	jaju	Thanks Sean! I will.
23:41	seancorfield	holmsand has said he will incorporate PRs and make a new release "in a few weeks"
23:41	yogthos	seancorfield: oh right, I tried to leave as much of it up to the user as possible
23:42	seancorfield	Whoops has incorporated all the PRs from holmsand's repo to make a 0.4.3 release with React.js 0.11.1
23:42	wildnux	yogthos: :D yeah.. i suppose i can do that :::::
23:42	yogthos	jaju: glad to hear it, most of it tends to come from stuff I end up doing at work, it's nice to be able to open source so much stuff :)
23:43	yogthos	wrt to Reagent maintenance, I do recall Dan mentioned that he'd be happy if more people jumped on the project
23:44	yogthos	it definitely looks like it's becoming a very important cljs lib and a lot of people are using it for production apps now
23:45	jaju	I started with reagent because i couldn't grok Om - I am not a JS guy. Reagent was immediately useful and found myself becoming productive. But over time, I was wondering why it wasn't appearing to pick up. Reagent-form and the recent discussions on the mailing list made me quite relieved :)
23:48	yogthos	I think stuff like Reagent is exactly what's needed for demonstrating why cljs is so great, it's extremely intuitive and you can pick it up in minutes
23:49	yogthos	I'm training a co-op student at work right now, she's never done any Clojure before and was able to start doing stuff with it in days
23:49	Jaood	yogthos: you need know a compojure rest api tutorial to complement the single paga apps tutorials ;)
23:50	Jaood	s/know/now
23:50	yogthos	Jaood: good call, compojure-api would be my recommendation currently https://github.com/metosin/compojure-api
23:50	yogthos	I'll try put something together about using it
23:51	Jaood	awesome