#clojure – 2014-09-08

2014-09-08

00:00	hipitihop	danielcompton, another limitation, this is being done in clojurescript so won't have access to all libs
00:00	arrdem	danielcompton: okay I found an old (2009) thread that sketched that exact same format. thanks.
00:00	justin_smith	I think the cljs equivalent would be switching to Object instead of map
00:01	hipitihop	danielcompton, looking
00:01	arrdem	danielcompton: sketching a spec of URIs for (artifacts, namespaces, vars, classes) all of which are versioned on a maven package so I thought I'd check for prior art in Maven URIs and make sure I superset it.
00:04	danielcompton	arrdem: is this for grimoire?:
00:04	arrdem	danielcompton: yeah but the hope is that it can be more general.
00:04	justin_smith	,clojure-version
00:04	clojurebot	{:interim true, :major 1, :minor 7, :incremental 0, :qualifier "master"}
00:05	arrdem	$google clojure-grimoire var-link
00:05	lazybot	[clojure-grimoire/var-link.el · GitHub] https://github.com/clojure-grimoire/var-link.el
00:05	arrdem	well... that's a prototype emacs browser
00:05	arrdem	links to the spec tho
00:06	danielcompton	hipitihop: could you use some XPATH to query the original XML document?
00:07	hipitihop	danielcompton, don't think so, I do need all elements parsed into final seq/vect I just need to detect the duplicates to warn user of the collisions .. a subsequent pass may drop the duplicates, or apply last in best dressed etc.
00:10	danielcompton	arrdem: hehe: http://oxlang.com
00:10	arrdem	danielcompton: oh well.
00:10	arrdem	oxlang.org or oxlang.io would be hipper anyway :P
00:11	hipitihop	danielcompton, experiments so far suggest it's the creation of the transient/intermediate colls (that hold the composite keys) which is the high cost but have not been able to fully profile where the bottle neck is.. digging deeper.
00:11	danielcompton	arrdem: don't think anyone's heard of this oxford crowd anyway, I wouldn't worry about it.
00:11	danielcompton	hipitihop: could you construct the composite keys with xslt?
00:12	hipitihop	danielcompton, prior to giving it to our cljs app ? no
00:17	technomancy	arrdem: scopes are a strictly maven thing, profiles are a lein thing
00:20	arrdem	danielcompton: eh it's a non-priority. oxlang isn't actually a thing and odds are never will be just because I think breaking compat with Clojure is requisite to do anything interesting and will be devastating to utility or at least infrastructure.
00:21	arrdem	technomancy: so... how does :scope "test" play with lein deps then? The Maven manual states that a test scoped dependency is _only_ loaded during the testing phase which Lein knows about.
00:21	arrdem	technomancy: I may be misreading tho.. actual raw maven is new to me.
00:22	arrdem	danielcompton: current draft https://github.com/clojure-grimoire/var-link
00:23	arrdem	danielcompton: the idea is that documentation and source code level links can become kinda portable across different documentation systems including my own ofc.
00:23	technomancy	arrdem: any non-default :scope means it's ignored by downstream consumers
00:24	technomancy	arrdem: I actually just answered this question on the lein mailing list. setting :scope in project.clj is only supported for legacy reasons, it should never be necessary
00:24	arrdem	technomancy: gotcha
00:24	arrdem	danielcompton: damnit I thought I got that already. thanks :P
00:25	danielcompton	arrdem: I meant to clean it up when I pasted it but I'm on a kinesis and my editing is still a bit clumsy
00:25	danielcompton	arrdem: var-link is interesting, I like that the motivation is up front
00:26	danielcompton	what's the motivation behind having var and var+doc and var+src. Don't you just want var+doc and var+src?
00:26	arrdem	danielcompton: lazy users and tools like CrossCLJ which only give you one
00:27	danielcompton	having var seems to muddy the waters for me, I'm not sure where it would take me
00:29	danielcompton	arrdem: but I can see why it's there
00:30	arrdem	I guess my idea with the var:... class:... and ns:... types are that if you can just get to what you want you can find either source or docs. say I just want to find out something about clojure.tools.analyzer. I don't really give a damn whether you give me formatted documetation or source code as long as I can get there fast and start reading.
00:30	arrdem	I suppose there's an argument in here for having an artifact: type
00:30	arrdem	but that should probably just be mvn:
00:41	danielcompton	arrdem: just a thought, maven has source jars, could you do something related there?
00:42	arrdem	danielcompton: yep something like that is in the works.
00:43	arrdem	danielcompton: the idea with var-link is that it's part of the same project. documentation/source artifacts that can link against each-other, so that engines like a refactored Grimoire can resolve the links to actual links.
00:44	arrdem	but this is all out on the horizon somewhere
01:21	danielcompton	I heard that Clojure Cup winners get a lock of Rich Hickey's hair
01:23	tadni_	danielcompton: I saw the beginiing of a speech he gave, and was delighted to hear he made a reference to looking like the 4th Doctor.
01:23	tadni_	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Doctor
01:24	danielcompton	tadni_: bahaha
01:24	tadni_	No one seemed to care or get it too, which I found a bit sad. It was something along the line of "I left my tardis running outside".
01:24	tadni_	Or a similar motif.
02:02	iamanoob	Hello guys, is there a prettier way (or more common) way to write this: https://www.refheap.com/89978 (it just don't look right to me, i'm a complete beginner sorry)
02:11	BAMbanda	Can we pull in clojar packages to an independant lein repl?
02:11	BAMbanda	outside a project directory
02:35	babygau	provided that f2 take 2 arguments (defn f2 [c d]...), how to write f1 that return value is f2 arguments??? => (f2 (f1 a b))
02:46	babygau	provided that f2 take 2 arguments (defn f2 [c d]...), how to write f1 that returned values are f2 arguments??? => (f2 (f1 a b))
02:49	gws	babygau: (apply f2 (f1 a b))
02:50	gws	,(apply + [1 2])
02:50	clojurebot	3
02:51	babygau	@gws: tks mate, but is there any other way that I don't have to use `let` destructuring or `apply` function???
02:51	lazybot	babygau: Yes, 100% for sure.
02:53	Bronsa	babygau: not without changing the implementation of f2
02:53	Bronsa	there's no way to call f with 2 args using (f x)
02:54	babygau	@bronsa: so the best practice is f1 return [a b] and use `apply` on f2 which take f1 values, right?
02:55	Bronsa	babygau: yes, assuming you can't control the implementation of f2
02:56	Bronsa	otherwise you could turn f2 into (defn f2 [[x y]] ..) instead of (defn f2 [x y] ..)
02:56	Bronsa	or, even (defn f2 ([[x y]] (f2 x y)) ([x y] ..))
02:57	Bronsa	this way you can call (f2 [1 2]) or (f2 1 2)
02:58	babygau	@Bronsa: tks bro, the second one is great answer :D
02:59	Bronsa	babygau: np, btw there's no need to use @ to refer to someone in IRC
03:00	babygau	bronsa: oh, I don't know that, both #clojure & #irc are so new to me :)
03:02	Bronsa	babygau: also your client should auto-complete names with TAB
03:02	babygau	Bronsa, many thanks mate, i'm using #hexchat and `TAB` works indeed!!!!
03:03	Bronsa	you're welcome
03:03	babygau	Bronsa, about my question, I forgot that `defn` accept multiple arity, so I can manipulate `fn` argument just the way I want :)
03:04	Bronsa	indeed, it's quite handy when coupled with destructuring on the args vector
03:04	babygau	Bronsa, yours just hit right spot ;)
03:05	Bronsa	babygau: usually nobody writes functions that way though -- unrolling the args of lesser arities -- we just use apply
03:06	celwell	If I already have ring as a dependency do I need to also add clj-http as a dependency if I want to :require clj-http? I.e., if I'm already pulling in a library that depends on the library I need, do I still have to explicity depend on that latter library if I want to use it?
03:06	babygau	Bronsa, tks mate, I could see how `apply` is more favourable, It's just my curiosity when it comes to learn a new language :)
04:40	justin_smith	celwell: if you know it is a transative dep, you don't need to explicitly put it in your deps. If that fails, it will fail at build time, not in your deployed code, so it isn't a big risk.
08:42	Rhainur	oh man I'm so ignorant about clojure terminology that I don't even know what to google for
08:42	llasram	Rhainur: What are you trying to figure out?
08:43	Rhainur	how do I go from this vector [1 2 3] to 3 separate items. I have (def some-vector [1 2 3]) and I want to call a function with 3 arguments thusly: (some-fn 1 2 3)
08:43	clgv	Rhainur: you can change that - there are books and online introductions to clojure ;)
08:43	llasram	Rhainur: `apply`
08:43	llasram	,(apply + [1 2 3])
08:43	clojurebot	6
08:43	Rhainur	but apply gives me 1 item
08:44	Rhainur	I don't want to call some-fn on all the arguments
08:44	Rhainur	some-fn accepts 3 arguments
08:44	llasram	Right..
08:44	llasram	(apply f [x y z]) is the same as (f x y z)
08:44	daniel___	Rhainur: map would do that, apply is the closest to unpacking you might find in python et al
08:44	hyPiRion	,(map (fn [x] (+ 1 x)) [1 2 3])
08:44	clojurebot	(2 3 4)
08:45	Rhainur	llasram: ahhhh
08:49	juliobarros	Datomic question: I have a bunch of entity types with several common attributes (name, active, etc.) does it make sense to make one common attribute that any entity "type" can have or to namespace each attribute for each entity x/name AND y/name, etc.
08:58	Rhainur	so this might be quite an unreasonable request, but I'm trying to figure out how to "think" in idiomatic Clojure and struggling a lot. For simple stuff it seems straightforward, but...
08:59	llasram	Rhainur: My experience is that you just work in the language long enough and it eventually clicks
08:59	bacon1989	^
08:59	Rhainur	I have a a piece of code in imperative style that I'm trying to redo in clojure and am just blanking on doing it any way other than imperative
08:59	bacon1989	Rhainur: been running into the same problems
09:00	bacon1989	Rhainur: if you have the oreilly book on clojure programming, i'd recommend going through the parallelism/concurrency section a few times
09:00	llasram	It just takes time (again IME). I had a definite point where it flipped from feeling like I was struggling to write my code "backwards" to it feeling completely natural
09:00	Rhainur	how did you start though, just reading through books? or project euler or something?
09:00	bacon1989	the biggest hurdle I hit was figuring out how to have 'some' state
09:00	awwaiid	Rhainur: I kept trying to use atoms and refs and such, before realizing that I could just have a function that returns the new value, and then just conveniently forget that the old value was ever around (instead of overwriting it)
09:01	bacon1989	Rhainur: project euler is good as a start, but the solutions are mostly stateless
09:01	llasram	Rhainur: I went though project Euler problems, did a few tiny projects (Mandelbrot set renderer), and re-did a few work projects in Clojure (not for production at first -- just exercise)
09:02	J_Arcane	Clojure, thus far, is proving a very good sandbox for forcing me to get better at functional style. I have too much BASIC and Python in my blood still, so it's taking some amount of practice to get out of it.;)
09:03	dnolen_	juliobarros: more likely to get an answer in #datomic
09:04	juliobarros	dnolen_: Thanks. Did/do not see that channel ... Hmm.
09:07	Rhainur	J_Arcane: I went from PHP to Ruby and now I'm trying out Clojure
09:08	daniel___	Rhainur: 4clojure is good, a lot of those are hard to begin with
09:09	daniel___	and after struggling a bit, you can search for solutions and see how others solved them
09:09	not3	I want to try clojure and racket
09:09	awwaiid	4clojure?
09:09	clojurebot	4clojure is the place to go for Clojure exercises
09:09	awwaiid	hm!
09:10	J_Arcane	I am working on the Clojurescript Koans myself. A few are a bit brain-bending, but it's a good way to quickly pick up the basics. I'll probably do 4clojure next.
09:12	awwaiid	a lot of my friends like exercism.io, but I haven't tried it
09:13	J_Arcane	awwaiid: I hadn't heard about that one. Looks pretty cool.
09:13	J_Arcane	I'm finding I learn better through these sorts of interactive methods than with traditional books (though Practical Common Lisp was pretty good, just not sure I like CL).
09:14	necronian	Can someone explain to me what is happening here? (clojure.string/replace "$" #"\$" "\\\\$") => StringIndexOutOfBoundsException String index out of range: 3 java.lang.String.charAt (String.java:658)
09:15	clgv	,"\\\\$"
09:16	clojurebot	"\\\\$"
09:16	clgv	,#"\$"
09:16	clojurebot	#"\$"
09:16	necronian	This (clojure.string/replace "$" #"\$" "\\$") works
09:17	necronian	and this also evaluates (clojure.string/replace "$" "$" "\\\\$")
09:19	clgv	necronian: you have to consult the javadocs therefore Matcher/replaceAll
09:21	necronian	clgv: Yea that would probably be a smart idea
09:24	necronian	clgv: Thanks for the tip. I feel pretty stupid now. Note that backslashes (\) and dollar signs ($) in the replacement string may cause the results to be different than if it were being treated as a literal replacement string.
09:27	dgaffney	Hey all, I'm relatively new at this and I'm trying to use the async module to make a series of calls to an API, then one final API call that uses the sum of the results from that series of API calls. What am I doing wrong here? https://gist.github.com/DGaffney/2b060bcc1a459334f65d
09:28	dgaffney	wait whooooops - I am in the clojure channel.
09:28	dgaffney	I'm learning both at the same time :\|
10:10	jtackett	hey, I want to be able to write a file to the desktop from my heroku app
10:10	jtackett	I know it is a read only file system, but I need a way for the user to save a text file they have created to their desktop
10:11	justin_smith	jtackett: what desktop?
10:11	jtackett	the user’s desktop
10:11	justin_smith	oh, then send it to them as a response with a content type that triggers a download
10:12	jtackett	how would you go about doing that in clojure?
10:12	justin_smith	technically they will decide where it goes
10:12	justin_smith	is this a webapp?
10:12	jtackett	yep
10:12	justin_smith	so, something on the client side has to send you a request, and you reply with the contents of the file
10:13	justin_smith	either they click a button "click here for your file" or you have some js magic going on
10:13	jtackett	so thinking from a view and handler set up
10:13	jtackett	let’s say they click a button for it
10:13	justin_smith	right, and you would have the right data in the session to associate the user with their file
10:13	jtackett	how do you trigger a download?
10:13	justin_smith	by setting the content type such that a browser downloads rather than displaying
10:13	jtackett	sounds fancy
10:13	jtackett	how does that work?
10:14	jtackett	like what is the code for that
10:15	justin_smith	in your handler, you should return a map {"Content-Type" "some-content-type" :body (slurp (io/input-stream (io/file user-file)))}
10:16	justin_smith	wait, you probably want to leave off the slurp there
10:16	justin_smith	I am looking up docs for the content type setting
10:17	justin_smith	http://stackoverflow.com/questions/925854/forcing-a-file-to-download here we go
10:17	justin_smith	that's how you do it
10:18	justin_smith	oh, and the actual map is {:headers {"Content-Type" "application/octet-stream" "Content-Disposition" "attachment"} :body (io/input-stream (io/resource user-file))}
10:20	jtackett	alright perfect
10:20	d0ky	hello does anybody know how to remove diacritics ? i'm trying:
10:20	d0ky	(java.text.Normalizer/normalize "áČš" java.text.Normalizer$Form/NFC) but it returns áČš instead aCs
10:20	jtackett	just need to figure out where that would go in the handler/view scheme
10:21	justin_smith	jtackett: that map is what you return from the handler
10:21	justin_smith	where usually you would return a string or whatever
10:22	mdrogalis	I think I'm close to understanding transducers. I get that they somehow don't use intermediate results and are more efficient in that sense, but why doesn't normal function composition suffice to begin with? See: https://gist.github.com/MichaelDrogalis/51fe0e76f61e6cebb987
10:22	jtackett	so usually I would return a view, but I should return that map?
10:22	jtackett	can I also put a string as the body?
10:22	jtackett	or does it need to be a file
10:22	justin_smith	sure
10:22	justin_smith	it can be a string, an input string - however you generate the thing to download
10:23	jtackett	so it could be: {:headers {"Content-Type" "application/octet-stream" "Content-Disposition" "attachment"} :body “Some string of text”}
10:23	justin_smith	if you return a map with :body key, the associated val is used the same way it would if it were the only thing you returned
10:23	justin_smith	right
10:23	jtackett	alright perfect
10:23	jtackett	I’ll give it a shot after this meeting
10:23	jtackett	thanks, I’ll be back on if I have any questions
10:24	justin_smith	so if it's more convenient it can also be a collection of strings, and ring will join them, for example
10:26	d0ky	hello is there any way how to replace accents letters with non-accents letters ? (java.text.Normalizer/normalize "ácš" java.text.Normalizer$Form/NFC) doesn't work :/
10:29	justin_smith	,(java.text.Normalizer/normalize "ácš" java.text.Normalizer$Form/NFKD)
10:29	clojurebot	#<ExceptionInInitializerError java.lang.ExceptionInInitializerError>
10:29	justin_smith	err...
10:29	justin_smith	try that
10:29	justin_smith	it separates the diacritics from the chars
10:30	cbp	,(java.text.Normalizer/normalize "ácš"
10:30	cbp	java.text.Normalizer$Form/NFD)
10:30	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
10:30	cbp	oops
10:31	d0ky	with (java.text.Normalizer/normalize "ťcš" java.text.Normalizer$Form/NFKD) or NFD i always get the same result ...
10:31	justin_smith	yeah, NFD and NFKD seem to give the same result
10:32	d0ky	but always with marks => ťcš
10:32	justin_smith	d0ky: it isn't meant to eliminate the diacritics, just make them separate characters, or a character plus a combining diacritic
10:33	justin_smith	(java.text.Normalizer/normalize "ácš" java.text.Normalizer$Form/NFD) => "ácš
10:33	justin_smith	that is exact what it should be doing
10:33	cbp	(-> "ťcš" (java.text.Normalizer/normalize java.text.Normalizer$Form/NFD) (.replaceAll "[^\\p{ASCII}]" ""))
10:33	d0ky	justin_smith: oh ... so can i get characters without marks ?
10:34	justin_smith	looks like cbp answered your question right before you asked it
10:34	d0ky	justin_smith: wooow that works great :)
10:34	d0ky	thank you :)
10:35	d0ky	cbp: sorry ... thank you :)
10:35	d0ky	cbp: justin_smith: you both thanks :)
10:36	cbp	(:
10:36	justin_smith	d0ky: we have fake internet points we use in these situations
10:36	justin_smith	(inc cbp)
10:36	lazybot	⇒ 8
10:37	d0ky	justin_smith: ok :)
11:25	dgrnbrg	Is (clojure.core.async/chan 0) the same as (clojure.core.async/chan)?
11:27	justin_smith	dgrnbrg: the docs seem to imply there is no buffer if no arg is supplied, so I guess that would be the same as explicitly supplying an n of 0?
11:28	dgrnbrg	that’s what I hope, but I don’t want to manually verify this—hoping someone else already knows
11:28	nick___	https://github.com/clojure/core.async/blob/53bf7866f195e6ba247ff7122b99784e66e9f1bb/src/main/clojure/clojure/core/async.clj#L66
11:29	justin_smith	dgrnbrg: https://github.com/clojure/core.async/blob/master/examples/walkthrough.clj#L12 this seems to imply so too
11:30	dgrnbrg	the proper idiom appears to actually be to use nil instead of 0
11:30	hlprmnky	dgrnbrg: I just spun up a REPL and made a chan with ‘0’ and it certainly appears to behave just like a chan with no arg
11:31	dgrnbrg	it’s tricky to test the buffering behavior
11:31	dgrnbrg	because I want to be able to control whether or not there’s any buffering going on
11:36	ghadishayban	in the reducers intro post a couple years ago, there was a reference to multi-fold / multi-reducibles being a topic of active research. does anyone know of any research?
11:37	borkdude	in clojure mode, can you collapse functions?
11:39	justin_smith	borkdude: I use hs-minor-mode and outline-minor mode for that (they each have advantages, they each know how to collapse / expand a sexp)
11:39	justin_smith	ghadishayban: reducers for parallel reduction?
11:40	Johannes`	hi, is it possible to view REPL error messages in fireplace.vim?
11:40	Johannes`	i only get the Vim(python): Traceback: line
11:40	Johannes`	when code is invalid
11:41	borkdude	justin_smith thanks. I\m trying hs-minor-mode, but gosh, the default keybindings... :)
11:42	justin_smith	borkdude: yeah, it really needs custom keys
11:42	justin_smith	Johannes`: (pst) should show you the stack trace for the most recent error in any repl
11:42	justin_smith	Johannes`: in the odd case that clojure.repl is not in scope, it will be clojure.repl/pst
11:43	dgrnbrg	Johannes`: use “:lopen” in vim
11:43	dgrnbrg	this will open a vim stacktrace that will let you navigate the code easiyl
11:43	justin_smith	oh, fancy :)
11:46	Johannes`	dgrnbrg: it gives me "no location list"
11:46	dgrnbrg	Johannes`: you have fireplace installed? and you had an exception thrown?
11:46	Johannes`	yeah
11:46	dgrnbrg	weird
11:46	dgrnbrg	well, it’s supposed to work then
11:46	Johannes`	:S
11:46	technomancy	/
11:46	technomancy	`.
11:47	technomancy	derp
11:47	justin_smith	I thought it was maybe collaborative ascii art time
11:47	borkdude	maybe there is some mode that gives an overview in the left buffer, and you can select to set point to sexp in the right buffer?
11:48	justin_smith	borkdude: speedbar should be able to do that, if you have it configured for clojure (which I have not done, but I know is hypothetically possible)
11:48	justin_smith	borkdude: if you are talking about emacs that is
11:48	borkdude	justin_smith yes
11:48	danneu	I'm having trouble writing/applying a function `ignore-assets` that takes middleware that will only be applied to a request if it's no an asset request (css, js, etc) https://www.refheap.com/89984
11:49	danneu	having trouble thinking about it. has anyone written something similar?
11:49	justin_smith	,(re-find #".js$\|.css$\|" "foo.css") ; danneu
11:49	clojurebot	""
11:49	justin_smith	I think your regex is bad
11:50	danneu	the rest of it is bad too
11:51	danneu	justin_smith: you have trailing pipe
11:51	justin_smith	,(re-find #"\.js\|\.css$" "foo.css")
11:51	clojurebot	".css"
11:51	justin_smith	,(re-find #"\.js\|\.css$" "foocss") ; I fixed this corner case
11:51	clojurebot	nil
11:51	danneu	haha thanks
11:51	TimMc	justin_smith: "...and you should feel bad."
11:52	Johannes`	justin_smith: thanks, using :map <F5> :Eval (pst)<CR>
11:53	justin_smith	danneu: with the fixed regex, it should be close to fixed if not fixed - your first regex actually matches anything with empty string (which is truthy)
11:53	justin_smith	,(if (re-find #".js$\|.css$\|" "foo.bar") :MATCHED)
11:53	clojurebot	:MATCHED
11:53	justin_smith	,(if (re-find #"\.js\|\.css$" "foo.bar") :MATCHED :NO_MATCH)
11:53	clojurebot	:NO_MATCH
11:54	mr-foobar	a webapp using cookies + db is stateful right ?
11:55	ghadishayban	justin_smith: "joining" two reductions together
11:55	dm3	mr-foobar: no, it's stateful if it has a session or keeps something in memory
11:55	justin_smith	ghadishayban: ahh, so transducers
11:55	justin_smith	ghadishayban: in particular the transduce function
11:56	dm3	anyone experienced with core.logic here? having trouble thinking about a problem:
11:56	justin_smith	dm3: well, with a db you can proxy state via api calls
11:56	ghadishayban	justin_smith: only map can reduce over multiple logical collections
11:56	dnolen_	dm3: ask your question
11:56	Johannes`	why does [3] equal '(3)?
11:56	justin_smith	ghadishayban: I thought you meant composing reductions into one reducing action
11:56	dm3	basically need to reconcile two sets of records ('id 'number)
11:57	justin_smith	Johannes`: structural equality
11:57	dm3	where either 1. records are equal, 2. sum of records with the same id on one side == 1 record on the other side, 3. sums on one side == sums on the other side
11:58	mr-foobar	justin_smith: isn't it simpler to throw out rest and use a stateful server then ?
11:58	mr-foobar	i think clojure might provide execellent primitives for a server.
11:59	danneu	mr-foobar: what are you trying to do?
11:59	justin_smith	mr-foobar: it is excellent for making servers. It is easy to make per-request bindings that are invisible to other requests.
11:59	justin_smith	mr-foobar: with persistent state via db or cookie session
11:59	mr-foobar	danneu: oh nothing. just got bored implementing yet another cookie seesion
12:00	justin_smith	mr-foobar: are you not using the standard ring middleware for that?
12:01	dm3	dnolen_: thought about fd, but cannot understand how to create a domain of sums which maps back to individual record ids
12:01	dm3	dnolen_: probably just thinking about the problem completely un-logically :)
12:01	jtackett	justin_smith: the download stuff works but it does not allow the user to name the file and decide where to save it
12:01	jtackett	it only just downloads it
12:01	justin_smith	Johannes`: my response earlier was a bit glib. In clojure, since we focus on immutible values, we don't care so much about identity of objects, we do care if they have the same effective structure.
12:02	danneu	justin_smith: sad, i actually did have that trailing pipe in my code. the gist now works, thanks.
12:02	justin_smith	jtackett: I think another answer in that same SO thread had an answer for that
12:02	mr-foobar	justin_smith: i am but I feel if http is like an interface ( not ring which is a level of indirection ) I think you could embed an app directly into the server.
12:03	technomancy	Johannes`: it's because pervasive laziness would be a lot more awkward if it affected equality
12:03	justin_smith	mr-foobar: I like the indirection ring provides, it adds sanity and isolation
12:03	Johannes`	technomancy: true
12:04	technomancy	,(= (map identity [1 2 3]) [1 2 3])
12:04	clojurebot	true
12:05	justin_smith	,(= (map identity [1 2 3]) (lazy-seq [1 2 3]) (list 1 2 3) [1 2 3])
12:05	clojurebot	true
12:05	justin_smith	,(= [1 2 3] (into-array [1 2 3])) ; but
12:05	clojurebot	false
12:06	technomancy	well yeah, mutability is gross
12:06	technomancy	if only it were consistent about that though =(
12:07	justin_smith	yeah, just pointing out the gotcha :) it is of course there for good reason
12:08	actionshrimp	it was like 52/59ths the size or something
12:12	Johannes`	18:03 <technomancy> Johannes`: it's because pervasive laziness would be a lot more awkward if it affected equality
12:12	Johannes`	out of context, this sounds like political debate
12:12	technomancy	poor people, amirite?
12:12	Johannes`	y
12:13	mdrogalis	Hah
12:13	lavokad	hi, why M-x clojure-mode doesn't provide the auto-indentation? Does anyone know what is problem with this?
12:14	rweir	as in "I hit enter but it didn't indent the cursor"?
12:14	technomancy	lavokad: that's what C-j does out of the box, but you can rebind to RET
12:14	danneu	for some reason after i updated my emacs packages, <enter> at the end of a line in a clj file always goes to col0 on the next line, but now i have to C-j to do that
12:15	justin_smith	lavokad: I think there is something like "electric-newline" you can set
12:15	danneu	<enter> used to behave like C-j
12:15	Johannes`	well check C-h k C-j and C-h k RET
12:15	lavokad	justin_smith: haha
12:15	technomancy	danneu: the old behaviour was a bug
12:15	lavokad	u know everyhing
12:15	lavokad	that is crazy
12:16	danneu	Johannes`: thanks. RET is evil-ret and C-j is paredit-newline
12:16	justin_smith	lavokad: I've been using emacs for a long time
12:16	lavokad	electric-indent-mode. So this function in clojure-mode package?
12:16	rweir	no, it's independent of clojure-mode
12:16	justin_smith	it's an emacs thing
12:17	J_Arcane	I have apparently completed the Clojurescript Koans.
12:17	rweir	should we be koancerned?
12:17	J_Arcane	Hah!
12:18	justin_smith	J_Arcane: there is also 4clojure
12:18	justin_smith	if you are looking for more
12:18	lavokad	So why does one need clojure-mode?
12:18	rweir	lavokad, because emacs has no idea how to indent clojure code or colour it or ...
12:18	J_Arcane	justin_smith: Yes. also, the CLJS version is incomplete, if I want the rest I should consider at least doing the relevant parts of the clojure koans.
12:18	rweir	lavokad, electric-indent-mode asks the major mode to indent the thing
12:18	justin_smith	lavokad: for things like highlighting, for defining clojure specific versions of the generic emacs concepts (like what a sexp is, how things should indent)
12:20	justin_smith	it's like a janky brittle elisp version of protocols - there are the generic definitions of things, commands that act on them, and then each mode provides the concrete actions they are bound to
12:20	lavokad	ok. And what is best way to see clojure's function doc stuff in emacs?
12:20	lavokad	while writing code..
12:21	justin_smith	I think there is a mode or setting for showing the arglist in the minibuffer - dunno about the docstring though
12:21	mwfogleman	lavokad: are you using CIDER?
12:21	adereth	C-c C-d
12:21	adereth	?
12:21	justin_smith	but that would be part of the repl integration (swank / nrepl.el / cider) since it has to ask the clojure process for info
12:22	adereth	Assuming you are using CIDER
12:22	mwfogleman	if so, you'll want to set up eldoc (which justin_smith was talking about), and you can use M-. to see cource code and the C-c C-d (g / h) to see Grimoire stuff... I think there are others
12:23	danneu	Would anyone use a bolt-on forum system where you own trumpets.com and CNAME forum.trumpets.com to trumpets.forumservice.com?
12:24	rweir	isn't that what discourse does
12:24	dagda1	paredit or smartparens, is there a reason to favour one over the other?
12:24	danneu	rweir: isnt discourse self-hosted?
12:24	rweir	paredit had a better cheatsheet at least
12:24	technomancy	dagda1: smartparens is more work to configure, but it works on non-lisps
12:24	technomancy	or so they say
12:25	J_Arcane	I think I technically use paredit, but to be honest I also mostly rely on electric-pairs insted.
12:25	dagda1	technomancy: it works with ruby also
12:25	danneu	rweir: and, at that point, discourse is even hard to self-host
12:26	justin_smith	lavokad: and given that my answers have been incomplete: http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/7a/19/bc/7a19bca2d9e429993ac39e4241d832e6.jpg
12:27	lavokad	;D
12:28	lavokad	I situate the cursor on defmacro word, then C-c C-d and waiting more in input..?
12:28	justin_smith	http://i.lvme.me/q2za7r5.jpg
12:28	J_Arcane	posting my clojure fizzbuzz golf apparently gained me new twitter followers in the form of four nearly identical "famous quotes" accounts and an SQL consultant.
12:29	justin_smith	hah
12:33	apod	lavokad: If you are using cider >= 0.7, the keybinding is C-c C-d d
12:34	lavokad	thanks!
12:34	lavokad
12:34	rweir	hm, still no 24.4
12:36	mdrogalis	Repost from earlier:
12:36	mdrogalis	I think I'm close to understanding transducers. I get that they somehow don't use intermediate results and are more efficient in that sense, but why doesn't normal function composition suffice to begin with? See: https://gist.github.com/MichaelDrogalis/51fe0e76f61e6cebb987
12:39	CookedGryphon	mdrogalis: the bottom one creates a lazy map which is fed into a lazy filter, the first one doesn't create an intermediate filter, in one shot it increments the number and looks at whether it's even
12:41	tbaldridge	mdrogalis: right, the second one creates lazyseqs between coll, map, filter, and dedupe
12:41	joegallo	CookedGryphon: making sure i'm tracking you, the difference is the amount of intermedia objects (that is, garbage) that are created?
12:41	CookedGryphon	yeah
12:41	joegallo	heh, intermedia --> intermediate ;)
12:42	joegallo	would be very neat to see a comparison of the two in a profiler
12:42	CookedGryphon	say your coll is 50meg, and for simplicity's sake, each transformation you're doing on it the result also takes up 50 meg, with the first example you only end up with 50 meg in and 50 meg out, the second one, you end up with 50+ 50 for the result of the map + 50 for the result of the filter .... etc. which has to be GCd
12:43	joegallo	and gc is cheap, but it isn't free
12:44	technomancy	still, I get the feeling this isn't going to be a bottleneck in the large majority of applications
12:44	CookedGryphon	I think there's extra indirection too
12:45	CookedGryphon	in terms of the number of function calls
12:45	technomancy	similar to how multimethods are rarely a bottleneck, but it's good to have a faster alternative for those rare cases
12:45	joegallo	technomancy: maybe not on your debian-based system. but i'm running gentoo with the most incredible CFLAGS in the universe.
12:45	joegallo	jk jk
12:47	justin_smith	another thing to consider is the number of heap lookups that are eliminated when transducers are composed - not that clojure is anything close to being a cache-line-coherent language, but every little bit helps
12:47	justin_smith	*cache-line-friendly I mean
12:47	justin_smith	coherency is another thing altogether
12:47	justin_smith	(provided by CPU, not language)
12:48	CookedGryphon	I personally am really excited about it. All my app does is pile up transformations on channels to respond to events
12:48	justin_smith	yeah, that seems like a perfect use-case
12:48	mdrogalis	CookedGryphon / tbaldridge: Sorry, got pulled away. Yep, I get that there's less garbage. But here's a more directed question: Why does core.async need to provide map/filter/etc mirrors in the first place?
12:48	mdrogalis	Why couldnt it take an aribitrary function?
12:49	tbaldridge	mdrogalis: "arbitrary function" ?
12:49	CookedGryphon	... what do you mean? It doesn't provide map/filter etc any more, it takes the transducers versions now
12:50	mdrogalis	CookedGryphon: Consider pre-transcuders commits. In core.async, there's map< filter<, mapcat< etc
12:50	mdrogalis	Why couldnt there be one api that takes a function instead?
12:51	CookedGryphon	good point... and as I understand it, entirely the logic behind having transducers...
12:52	justin_smith	mdrogalis: that's what transducers are, right? it's the way one defines a function that can be bolted onto a channel. Or do you mean we should be allowed to put any function on there?
12:52	tbaldridge	mdrogalis: you'll be at STL right?, go to Rich's talk, all will be explained, I'm sure ;-)
12:52	CookedGryphon	I think you can put any function on there, which matches the signature of the transducers
12:52	mdrogalis	Just throw out transcuders for a second. I dont understand what prevented us from composing functions in the first place. D:
12:52	mdrogalis	Im sure theres a reason, I just dont get it
12:52	mdrogalis	tbaldridge: Yeahhh, I think Ill wait I guess.
12:53	dnolen_	mdrogalis: what is there to compose?
12:53	dnolen_	mdrogalis: map/filter/reduce too sequence like things
12:53	dnolen_	there are no real sequences in event streams
12:53	dnolen_	s/too/took
12:54	mdrogalis	dnolen_: Ahhhhh
12:54	mdrogalis	There we go, it clicked.
12:54	mdrogalis	dnolen_: Thanks. I was mentally throwing .. Something out. Im not sure what, but yeah. I see now.
12:56	ghadishayban	yeah the cache line sympathy is important too
12:58	justin_smith	ghadishayban: there we go, sympathy was the word I was searching for
12:58	ghadishayban	hiredman is on a crusade to get things to have reduce at the bottom rather than lazy-seq... the benefit is very nice
12:59	tbaldridge	+1, reduce all the things
12:59	ghadishayban	half of the knobs on c.j.jdbc/query call are to control realization of the sequence
12:59	rweir	reduce or transduce?
12:59	ghadishayban	think of them similarly
13:00	ghadishayban	they can both abort through "reduced"
13:00	tbaldridge	I've noticed that half the time when I used lazy-seqs I was really only using them to compose pipelines, I very rarely wanted the lazy bits. Thus all that stuff can be converted to transducers
13:00	justin_smith	transduce is just a generalization of the reduce concept, no?
13:00	ghadishayban	now that into uses transduce, c.j.jdbc could do this: (into (take 5000) (queryr "select * from foo"))
13:01	ghadishayban	rather (into [] (take 5000) (queryr "select * from foo"))
13:01	mdrogalis	Nice :)
13:01	justin_smith	ghadishayban: the laziness is helpful for having control of the db connection, and not needing to transmit more results if you discover you have what you need (though reduced could do the same I guess :))
13:01	jtackett	hey :justin_smith couldn’t find how to get the actual download window to come up
13:01	ghadishayban	that way you don't have to tell jdbc how much you want to stream
13:01	ghadishayban	justin_smith: it's still "lazy"
13:02	technomancy	ITYM :org.freenode.clojure/justin_smith
13:02	ghadishayban	it's just not a concrete lazy-seq
13:03	jtackett	ghadishayban: wrap that in a doall
13:03	ghadishayban	?
13:03	justin_smith	jtackett: the point here is we don't even want laziness in that context
13:03	jtackett	sorry came in the convo too late haha
13:04	jtackett	oh i got ya
13:04	jtackett	kind of loosing the point of clojure haha
13:04	justin_smith	jtackett: not sure, but maybe try taking out the content-disposition attachment part
13:04	justin_smith	jtackett: not at all! this is about transducers
13:05	jtackett	maybe it’s a different acontent type?
13:05	jtackett	sorry I haven’t handled transducers at all
13:05	justin_smith	they are quite new
13:05	justin_smith	octet-stream should be the one for downloads in general
13:05	jtackett	nice, gotta love the new stuff coming out
13:05	justin_smith	the disposition should be the one that effects how it is handled
13:09	ghadishayban	transducers really are the shit
13:09	ghadishayban	a high-performance, high-level abstraction that was hiding in plain sight
13:10	mikerod	transduce* all the things
13:11	ghadishayban	also plays nicely with java 8 streams api
13:12	justin_smith	oh really? that's awesome
13:12	dnolen_	ghadishayban: cool, I'm really looking forward to your Conj talk BTW :)
13:12	ghadishayban	for example java.util.regex.Pattern/splitAsStream
13:13	J_Arcane	Man, sometimes I love FreeBSD ports so much. Up-to-date packages for Clojure, CIDER, and clojure-mode, all in the repos already. :D Might be time to reboot in a minut.
13:13	ghadishayban	transduce over the stream, and you can get zero-allocation fun
13:13	tadni_	J_Arcane: Can't you just use package.el for the latter two?
13:14	J_Arcane	tadni_: Probably safer most times, yes.
13:15	technomancy	I wouldn't call it safer
13:15	technomancy	package.el installs over unencrypted http
13:15	ghadishayban	wrote this as a demonstration of a reducer last year, works the same under transduce https://gist.github.com/ghadishayban/7002262 string regex split that is much faster than both string/split and Java's Pattern/split
13:15	J_Arcane	Well, I mean less from a security standpoint than from a current-ness one.
13:15	tadni_	FreeBSD has no Lighttable. The tradgedy.
13:16	technomancy	J_Arcane: "current" isn't always a good thing with cidec
13:16	J_Arcane	ie. you're possibly going to get a slightly newer package from MELPA or something for some packages.
13:16	technomancy	cider
13:18	arohner	can I use data literals to make datomic queries return joda time rather than j.u.Date?
13:18	ghadishayban	dnolen_: Conj talk will be low-level and dirty and you'll need a shower afterwards. nashorn really is an amazing piece of engineering
13:19	ghadishayban	unfortunately the current state of invokedynamic isn't all rosy
13:20	nick___	Whats the prblem with invokedynamic?
13:20	nick___	Is there a good talk or blogpost?
13:20	ghadishayban	JVM current impl has some warmup issues, inferior to JRockit implementation
13:21	ghadishayban	not fundamental problems with invokedynamic as a concept at all
13:22	ghadishayban	nick___: if you want a reference http://mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/mlvm-dev/2014-August/005890.html John Rose wrote a brilliant summary of future direction for fast startup
13:22	ghadishayban	on the JVM as a whole, a superset of indy issues
13:23	ghadishayban	that whole thread is gold, especially Charlie Nutter, Marcus Lagergren
13:24	ghadishayban	and Fredrik Ohrstrom, the originator of the JRockit impl which is able to crrrunch all the invokedynamic things and remove boxing
13:29	nick___	Thanks
13:29	nick___	So the problem is only with start up, or are there other fundamental problems?
13:31	ghadishayban	warmup that is the main issue for indy, and it's only so because of the JDK internal implementation (see LambdaForms)
13:31	ghadishayban	and also indy doesn't run on android or GAE
13:32	atyz	I'm looking for a fn similar to interleave/zipmap but that would work with collections of different lengths. So when one collection is used it will start at the beginning and continue
13:32	ghadishayban	so it would definitely have to be a compilation mode
13:32	hiredman	atyz: cycle
13:32	atyz	thanks!
13:32	atyz	(inc hiredman)
13:32	lazybot	⇒ 55
13:34	CookedGryphon	Does anyone here use expectations?
13:34	CookedGryphon	my tests do a lot of partial matches of big maps, and it's just infuriating using midje when it spews a whole screen of stuff out at you with no hint as to what's different between the two
13:35	CookedGryphon	and expectations looks better, but I can't seem to get expectations-mode to actually run my tests in emacs
13:35	CookedGryphon	or in the repl for that matter
13:35	technomancy	CookedGryphon: https://github.com/pjstadig/humane-test-output
13:35	danneu	i use expectations
13:36	technomancy	but I support getting off midje
13:36	atyz	I second technomancys' suggestion
13:36	tbaldrid_	CookedGryphon: use clojure.test ;-) the only true testing library
13:36	xeqi	poor unloved test.check
13:37	tbaldrid_	well yeah, use that when you can as well.
13:37	danneu	though 75% of my tests are a menagerie of `assert`s at the bottom on each file with `TODO: Extract into test framework` that never actually happens
13:38	CookedGryphon	is the general consensus to stick with clojure.test with humane-output then?
13:38	tbaldrid_	CookedGryphon: I just use plain clojure.test, and jump to the repl when I can't understand the test ouptut
13:38	CookedGryphon	if so, where are some good helpers for things like "this map contains at least these key/values and ignore the rest"
13:39	tbaldrid_	here's one, https://github.com/brentonashworth/lein-difftest and I like that it's not on by default.
13:39	atyz	tbaldrid_: you don't run your tests from the repl? Or are you running the entire suite at once?
13:39	atyz	via lein test
13:39	tbaldrid_	atyz: I do both, most of the time at the REPL
13:44	ckarlsen	after upgrading from 1.7 alpha1 to alpha2 i can no longer connect to datomic. 'NoSuchMethodError clojure.lang.SeqIterator.<init>(Lclojure/lang/ISeq;)V datomic.fulltext.Root (fulltext.clj:253)' -- after running `connect`. Only thing I did was replace alpha1 w/ alpha2 in project.clj and ran `lein clean`. Any tips?
13:50	amalloy	ckarlsen: alpha2 isn't binary-compatible with alpha1, and your version of datomic is apparently compiled against the other one
13:50	amalloy	specifically, https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/43cc1854508d655e58e377f84836ba128971f90c/src/jvm/clojure/lang/SeqIterator.java changed a method from taking ISeq to taking Object
13:51	hiredman	(the pains of distributing an aot compiled library)
13:55	ckarlsen	ok thanks!
13:58	justin_smith	#closedsourceproblems
13:58	dm3	CookedGryphon: https://gist.github.com/dm3/a1dacafb11617a722a96 for the submap with humane-test
14:10	ghadishayban	justin_smith: hiredman: something like this in java.jdbc would be amenable to transduce/reduce https://gist.github.com/ghadishayban/d2f31961deba98ee4595
14:11	ghadishayban	though java.jdbc i think is still compatible with clojure 1.2 and can't use 'reduced'
14:12	hiredman	ghadishayban: maybe link that gist on the jdbc story?
14:13	ghadishayban	k
14:15	llasram	Why do transducers have a special extra fast fast path for IReduce?
14:16	hiredman	do they?
14:16	llasram	Yeah -- look at the implementation of `transduce`
14:16	ghadishayban	transduce does
14:17	ghadishayban	basically if you are in control, reify IReduce and not CollReduce
14:17	ghadishayban	CollReduce on an IReduce just calls .reduce
14:17	ghadishayban	it's a little surprising, only in that there are two functionally equivalent paths...
14:18	llasram	Blergh. I wish protocols could just their backing interface. Or something. So we could have the same JVM interface for an abstract protocol in both Clojure and Java code
14:18	llasram	s,could just,could just specify,
14:18	hiredman	hmmm, I can't say I like the idea of the recommended path being the java interface over the protocol
14:19	hiredman	really what you want is the ability to retro fit a protocol to an existing interface instead of generating a new one
14:19	ghadishayban	yeah it strikes me as entirely pragmatic choice, and not motivated by idealistically dog-fooding protocols everywhere
14:19	hiredman	I think hugod did some work on something like that a while back
14:19	danneu	so i have a spare domain that i use for testing my subdomain-based forum system. every time i reset the database, this guy creates a thread http://community-1.fed.nu/forums/1/topics/5
14:20	danneu	it's like seed data
14:20	bacon1989	i'm still trying to wrap my head around transducers
14:29	llasram	bacon1989: They're like burritos
14:29	bacon1989	dirty and fast?
14:29	bacon1989	messy and fast to consume?
14:30	bacon1989	I have a small inklet on how they work, it's more about use-cases I guess
14:30	bacon1989	like, I look at defmulti, and i can see that it's a fancy generic dispatcher
14:31	TimMc	llasram: Oh, they are, aren't they?
14:32	ghadishayban	hiredman: something like that for jdbc?
14:32	bacon1989	I have a good question for you guys, say I wanted to write a website with a database
14:32	ghadishayban	my weekend yak-shave was making a fast csv parser that is reducible
14:32	hiredman	ghadishayban: binding a protocol to an already existing interface
14:32	bacon1989	where could I place the configuration optoins for my database, if it's going to be different based on deployment?
14:32	hiredman	I think it was hugod I may be mistaken
14:33	bacon1989	I can't place it in the .jar file, how would I refernece a custom config?
14:33	ghadishayban	i mean the basic interface for a query
14:33	ghadishayban	(into [] xfn (query ...))
14:33	justin_smith	bacon1989: typically I have separate config files in the resource path, and use an environment variable to decide which one should be loaded
14:33	hiredman	so you could, for example, have IReduce available for java interop and just bind the CollReduce protocol to use that same interface instead of creating a new one
14:34	bacon1989	justin_smith: can you elaborate on that? what if I wanted to change the custom config?
14:34	justin_smith	bacon1989: with that setup, a client who wants none of the config in the jar, could add another to the classpath, and specify that one via env
14:34	bacon1989	ah
14:34	justin_smith	ie. if CONFIG=production it looks for production.edn in classpath
14:34	justin_smith	etc.
14:35	ghadishayban	hiredman: presumably the reduction time will overwhelm protocol/interface dispatch time
14:35	Bronsa	hiredman: I haven't read the backlog but there's a way to change the backing interface for a protocol
14:35	ghadishayban	hiredman: on-interface?
14:35	llasram	Bronsa: ooh?
14:35	Bronsa	llasram: what ghadishayban just said :)
14:35	danneu	bacon1989: i use `environ` library. https://github.com/danneu/bulletin/blob/master/src/bulletin/config.clj - for local dev, i have a .lein-env file (i dont commit) that has stuff like :database_url
14:35	llasram	oooh
14:36	ghadishayban	not dynamically, but at definition time...
14:36	Bronsa	I don't think it's documented though
14:36	ghadishayban	yeah was going to say, i've never used it
14:37	llasram	And it appears to generate a new interface with the provided name, which isn't what you'd need to solve this problem
14:38	bacon1989	danneu: justin_smith, I like both of your solutions
14:38	bacon1989	danneu's solution seems easier, but justin_smith's seems more flexible
14:39	justin_smith	bacon1989: getting a value from System/getenv and then using that as an arg to clojure.java.io/resource is a one liner
14:40	bacon1989	oh I know, but a system admin is more likely to blame you if they mess up a custom EDN config file, over messing with the environment variables
14:42	bacon1989	in fact, i'd probably employ both. Keep database config in env, and have a custom.edn outside of the scope of configuration
14:43	mbriggs	Hey guys, in ruby, if I did File.expand_path("~/foo.txt"), I would get "/Users/matt/foo.txt". Is there anything similar in clojure?
14:43	mbriggs	i.e. "turn this string into whatever bash would evaluate it to be"
14:43	hiredman	Bronsa: ah, well, there you go
14:44	hiredman	so CollReduce should just be :on-interface on IReduce
14:44	Bronsa	yes
14:44	hiredman	someone tell rich
14:44	llasram	hiredman, Bronsa: except `defprotocol` still calls `gen-interface` for the provided :on-interface name
14:44	bacon1989	mbriggs: if you're not afraid to do some java interop, I think java.io.File has what you need
14:44	justin_smith	mbriggs: java.nio.file.PathMatcher
14:44	mbriggs	awesome, thanks
14:45	hiredman	llasram: :/
14:45	Bronsa	llasram: does it?
14:45	hiredman	llasram: gen-interface may short circuit if it already exists
14:45	hiredman	(also not it on telling rich)
14:45	llasram	Bronsa: I don't see anything which would make it conditional
14:45	llasram	hiredman: hmmm...
14:46	rweir	mbriggs, does it really do what bash would do? or does it just expand ~?
14:47	hiredman	it doesn't look like it
14:47	llasram	hiredman: No, don't see anything conditional there either. In fact "normally" expects interface might already exist, in case of redef
14:47	mbriggs	rweir in this case just expand ~
14:47	Bronsa	oh well
14:47	hiredman	:/
14:48	Bronsa	inb4 classloader issues make the "shadowing" interface irrelevant
14:48	Bronsa	... yeah it seems to work
14:49	hiredman	sure, but will it continue to work in aot project without a dynamic classloader
14:50	llasram	Bronsa: Er. Doesn't it actually make it not work, because then all the in-Java types implement one interface while the in-Clojure types implement another, where the interfaces just happen to have the same name?
14:50	Bronsa	http://sprunge.us/UAjJ
14:50	Bronsa	llasram: no that's the point
14:50	hiredman	will you end up with two IReduce.classes emitted, one from the java compiler with IFn and one from gen-interface with Object
14:50	Bronsa	the protocol actually uses the already existing interface rather than the one it just created
14:50	llasram	Oh!
14:50	llasram	whaaaa
14:50	llasram	How?
14:51	hiredman	:(
14:51	Bronsa	I have a vague understanding on why this happens
14:51	hiredman	and the behaviour will be different when compiling
14:51	Bronsa	yeah
14:51	llasram	`emit-protocol` has the most insane option-parsing code evar
14:52	Bronsa	I've seen some crazy stuff w/ clojure's classloader handling
14:52	llasram	OOOOOOH
14:52	llasram	I see now. The code unconditionally will define an interface for the name of the protocol, but will actually use a provided :on-interface instead
14:53	llasram	That's something special
14:53	TimMc	llasram: http://i.imgur.com/3OtgEyU.gif
14:53	llasram	TimMc: Yeah, that was pretty much me
14:54	hiredman	hilarious
14:54	hiredman	so :on-interface then
14:54	llasram	Yep. Someone totes should tell Rich
14:55	hiredman	of course rich will never go for changing CollReduce to :on-interface IReduce
14:55	Bronsa	hiredman: uhm AOT compiling (defprotocol CollReduce :on-interface clojure.lang.IReduce (..)) might break things actually
14:55	hiredman	changing is verboten, only accrete
14:55	Bronsa	it's going to overwrite the clojure.lang.IReduce class file
14:55	hiredman	:(
14:56	llasram	Bronsa: Are you sure?
14:56	Bronsa	llasram: almost
14:56	llasram	Because I think the gen-interface'd interface is still named for the protocol
14:57	Bronsa	ah?
14:57	llasram	And even if it isn't, can always wrap the `defprotocol` in `(binding [compile-files false] ...)` :-D
14:58	Bronsa	nope that won't work
14:59	Bronsa	llasram: ah you're right about the interface name
15:01	llasram	Finally. I knew it had to happen at least once this week.
15:04	ghadishayban	i fail to see what the big deal is between CollReduce IReduce
15:05	justin_smith	mbriggs: one option (#(clojure.java.shell/sh "sh" "-c" (str "echo -n " %)) "~") - sadly that redundant sh invocation is truly needed
15:06	mbriggs	justin_smith yeah...
15:06	justin_smith	(#(:out (clojure.java.shell/sh "sh" "-c" (str "echo -n " %))) "~") actually
15:07	mbriggs	justin_smith i ended up just treating this as a special case, and made a wrapper fn around System/getProperty "user.home" to avoid java sillyness
15:07	justin_smith	that's fair
15:07	mbriggs	https://gist.github.com/4af1e2eb71927111842e
15:09	dbasch	mbriggs: you may want to make sure there’s a slash in between
15:10	dbasch	(more properly a path separator)
15:10	justin_smith	bonus - "//" becomes "/" anyway, so there is little reason not to insert one
15:10	justin_smith	(slurp "/home/justin/////////////////////////////.bashrc") totally works
15:12	verma	what do you use to keep your processes up and running? like a process manager sorts, not really geared towards web/db servers, something more like a program I could give a process to and it keeps it up
15:12	llasram	verma: It my company we use runit
15:12	noonian	verma: something like runit or upstart maybe
15:12	verma	llasram, noonian hmm, k taking a look
15:14	verma	llasram, noonian failed to mention that I should be able to kill processes as well, also runit is an init system?
15:15	noonian	yeah, so you could do something like sudo service my-app stop and sudo service my-app start and if it dies it will get automatically restarted
15:16	TimMc	justin_smith: cd //
15:16	verma	noonian, hmm interesting
15:16	verma	noonian, so I am basically using the OS to manage processes :)
15:16	llasram	verma: Yeah -- unless I've misunderstood your reqs, what you want is an init system. We're on Debian squeeze&wheezy, so using runit > sysvinit for our services. Would probably just use upstart on Ubuntu, and will move to systemd along with rest of world
15:16	TimMc	and check your prompt
15:16	justin_smith	TimMc: cd ////// etc. all work on my box
15:17	justin_smith	but // is funny in my prompt, yeah
15:17	noonian	verma: yes, processes are really an os level concept
15:18	verma	noonian, yeah :)
15:19	TimMc	justin_smith: It's some weird special case, I think just in the shell itself.
15:19	TimMc	Maybe not.
15:19	justin_smith	interesting
15:20	dbasch	“Multiple successive slashes are considered to be the same as one slash.” http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/basedefs/xbd_chap03.html#tag_03_266
15:20	justin_smith	yup
15:21	justin_smith	which is handy to know when constructing paths from freeform inputs
15:21	TimMc	dbasch: Except leading slashes. http://tiswww.case.edu/php/chet/bash/FAQ E10
15:21	TimMc	"POSIX.2, in its description of `cd', says that three or more leading slashes may be replaced with a single slash when canonicalizing the current working directory."
15:22	justin_smith	TimMc: lesson: insert three slashes, not just one
15:22	TimMc	haha
15:23	DomKM	What is the largest open-source Clojure app with Compojure routing?
15:24	smizell	This might be a strange/crazy question, but is there any library that converts Clojure code to JSON? Like (def x 1) to ["def", "x", 1]?
15:25	tbaldrid_	smizell: "convert to JSON" for what use-case?
15:25	tbaldrid_	smizell: transit does this sort of thing...but it just uses JSON as a transport.
15:25	smizell	I'm basically curious if you could represent code with JSON
15:26	smizell	Interesting
15:26	justin_smith	smizell: this plus cheshire? https://github.com/technomancy/serializable-fn
15:27	smizell	tbaldrid: I've spent a lot of time developing JSON hypermedia formats. They are usually always considered data with code provided to parse them.
15:27	justin_smith	I guess the problem is that js has no [] / () distinction
15:28	llasram	smizell: All Clojure code may be represented as Clojure/EDN data, but the translation from Clojure/EDN data to JSON is lossy unless using a layered transport scheme like Transit
15:28	turbofail	hm. weird. i had a very clear case of reflection going on that warn-on-reflection didn't say anything about
15:28	turbofail	at least when i loaded the namespace
15:28	justin_smith	turbofail: was it on a number?
15:28	turbofail	no
15:29	justin_smith	was it aot-compiled?
15:29	turbofail	well so it was an AOT-compiled namespace so that probably explains it
15:29	turbofail	yeah
15:29	smizell	Yeah, you'd have to have some way to make some distinctions. You'd also have to limit what it can do.
15:29	smizell	Some experimenting: https://github.com/smizell/janeml
15:29	turbofail	that's the goto explanation for anything weird - AOT?
15:29	justin_smith	turbofail: yeah, the warnings happen at compile time, and its already compiled, so... there you go
15:30	justin_smith	in this case it's a simple deduction :)
15:30	turbofail	yeah i had forgotten that it was AOT compiled
15:31	justin_smith	not to say that I wouldn't check AOT for any weird ass behavior, after I eliminate the obvious
15:32	tbaldridge	smizell: LISP is basically an easy to read AST. ASTs can be represented as data, JSON is data...at least that's the way I think of it all
15:33	smizell	tbaldridge: Exactly.
15:34	TimMc	turbofail: This gets posted at work not too infrequently: http://i.qkme.me/3vb225.jpg
15:34	turbofail	heh
15:35	justin_smith	haha
15:38	smizell	tbadridge: I am just curious as to how much I could express in JSON. Since JSON is everywhere, there is some cool potential to process things all over the place in different languages.
15:39	tbaldridge	smizell: well sure, but it'd look like crap ( ;-) ) and writing a scheme parser isn't hard
15:39	smizell	tbaldridge: It would look horrible!
15:40	tbaldridge	smizell: but a scheme in any language is what...1-2 KLOC?
15:41	turbofail	depends on if you need to write your own GC or not
15:41	turbofail	also depends on what you mean by "scheme"
15:42	smizell	tbaldridge: Surely something can be better than JSON Schema, though http://json-schema.org/
15:43	hiredman	turbofail: a mark and sweep gc could be as few as 20 lines
15:47	miber	I'm building a library to communicate with a certain HTTP API - it's basically just a wrapper around clj-http
15:47	miber	right now it's only a bunch of functions, but now I'm facing two problems:
15:48	miber	1) I don't know what's a good approach to have the URL of the server configurable (currently it's a global var, which doesn't feel right)
15:48	miber	2) depending on how the server is configured, I might need to pass a {:basic-auth ["user" "pass"]} or even {:insecure? true} to the clj-http.client/post method
15:48	miber	I'm quite new to Clojure and I'm looking for a idiomatic way to do this, any pointers?
15:48	justin_smith	miber: both can be handled by a config file you look for on the class path
15:49	justin_smith	unless you need to change those things in a single production run of the app
15:49	hiredman	best is to take them as arguments
15:49	miber	is there a standard way how to do it via the config file then?
15:50	miber	hiredman: yeah, I was thinking to do it like so
15:50	owengalenjones	miber: I would look for io/resource examples
15:51	miber	would it be good if every function would then take a mandatory first argument which would be a map with the url and possibly other arguments to the post function?
15:52	hiredman	loading from a config file is not all that more flexiable than defing it in the code
15:52	hiredman	miber: yeah, pass args
15:53	miber	ok, thanks
16:05	J_Arcane	OK, on second thought, maybe installing CIDER from ports (0.7.0) is a safer method than MELPA (0.8.0 and broken, apparently)
16:07	xemdetia	J_Arcane, I'm only seeing CIDER as being released at 0.7.0
16:08	J_Arcane	xemdetia: the MELPA release I just installed complains of a version mismatch between cider itself and cider-nrepl. One is 0.7, the other is 0.8.
16:08	xemdetia	https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/releases
16:08	xemdetia	I'm just going off this
16:09	llasram	J_Arcane: If you must MELPA, MELPA Stable
16:10	xemdetia	being bleeding edge can often be bloody
16:12	J_Arcane	Seems that way. Will probably just roll back the package and install from ports instead, usually stabler option.
16:14	J_Arcane	Or just try nightcode or lighttable ...
16:15	justin_smith	or cursive
16:19	llasram	J_Arcane: The MELPA stable repository does all the magic of MELPA, but only for actual tags vs arbitrary commits
16:19	dgaffney	Hey - any reason why my jetty setup would return 404 when I clearly have a handler for the endpoint?
16:19	Rhainur	so I have a map of where the keys are all different but all the values = true, and I'd like to iterate over it, and change some of the values to false depending on the key
16:19	llasram	J_Arcane: That's probably what you actually want
16:19	Rhainur	how can I iterate over it and get a key/value pair
16:20	Rhainur	seq seems to break the map into 2 item vectors
16:20	justin_smith	Rhainur: (into {} (map (fn [[k v]] [(f k) (g v)]) {my data...}))
16:20	justin_smith	that is the most generic version
16:20	justin_smith	really you want the k part unmodified
16:21	amalloy	Rhainur: what do you imagine is the difference between a key/value pair and a two-item vector?
16:21	Rhainur	amalloy: if I change the value I want it to affect the original map
16:21	Rhainur	well
16:21	Rhainur	what I mean is
16:21	amalloy	well, like most things in clojure, maps are immutable
16:21	Rhainur	I want to create a new map
16:22	Rhainur	with (some) different values
16:22	amalloy	i mean, really you just do what justin_smith said
16:22	Rhainur	so I knew there'd be an (into) at some point
16:22	justin_smith	,(into {} (map (fn [[k v]] [k (if (even? v) (inc v) v)]) {:a 0 :b 1 :c 2 :d 3}))
16:22	clojurebot	{:c 3, :b 1, :d 3, :a 1}
16:22	Rhainur	I just wasn't sure whether a seq was necessary
16:23	llasram	Rhainur: You could also use `reduce-kv` for MOAR SPEED, but the `map` via seq idiom is more flexible
16:24	justin_smith	,(reduce-kv (fn [m k v] (assoc m k (if (even? v) (inc v) v))) {} {:a 0 :b 1 :c 2 :d 3})
16:24	clojurebot	{:a 1, :d 3, :b 1, :c 3}
16:27	justin_smith	,(let [input {:a 0 :b 1 :c 2 :d 3}] (reduce-kv (fn [m k v] (if (even? v) (assoc m k (inc v)) m)) input input)) ; since you are only changing some keys
16:27	clojurebot	{:c 3, :b 1, :d 3, :a 1}
16:27	justin_smith	avoids needless assoc calls
16:32	ired_44	I'm learning Clojure and am writing my first macro, to print the docstrings of functions as they are run (eventually w/ interpolation of the arguments the function was called with, into the docstring). if anyone has a few minutes I'd appreciate comments/review of the code: https://gist.github.com/mhuebert/c03c131ca0f43f034f0c
16:36	SagiCZ1	is java.lang autoamtically imported to REPL?
16:36	J_Arcane	yeah, to hell with this I'm gonna reboot and try light table.
16:36	justin_smith	SagiCZ1: java.lang is always imported, period
16:36	SagiCZ1	,(Math/signum 5)
16:36	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching method found: signum>
16:36	SagiCZ1	where is the mistake?
16:36	justin_smith	,(Math/signum 5.0)
16:36	clojurebot	1.0
16:37	SagiCZ1	justin_smith: float.. ok
16:37	SagiCZ1	ty
16:37	turbofail	i hate that
16:37	justin_smith	5.0 in clojure is a double literal
16:37	justin_smith	but float would work too yeah
16:37	justin_smith	,(class 5.0)
16:37	clojurebot	java.lang.Double
16:37	turbofail	most of the java math functions are only defined for doubles or floats or whatever, which seems silly to me
16:38	SagiCZ1	turbofail: seems normal to me
16:38	turbofail	i don't think it's too outlandish to want an integer answer for doing (Math/pow 2 12)
16:38	technomancy	it's only normal if you have a simplistic type system
16:40	turbofail	signum and abs are probably the most annoying offenders
16:41	SagiCZ1	turbofail: well no one really forces you to use the lang.Math
16:41	turbofail	well i think abs does work for integer-ish things
16:41	dgaffney_	Hey guys - any reason I would suddenly be seeing 404's from a jetty server? It's totally weird. I moved from my desktop to my laptop and pulled the repo down, and only some of the endpoints are 404'ing, and I've cut it every way I can think, and I'm not seeing it...
16:41	justin_smith	,(Math/abs -8)
16:41	clojurebot	8
16:43	dgaffney_	They are using 7.6.1 for jetty, I just checked both boxes.... this is mindblowingly annoying.
16:43	amalloy	ired_44: what on earth are you using clojure.test/function? for? do you mean clojure.core/fn?
16:44	amalloy	oh my gosh, c.t/function? resolves the var. that doesn't seem like a good thing to use in general
16:54	zanes	What’s the right way to reset! an atom, and only perform a side effect if the value changed?
16:55	tbaldridge	zanes: I wouldn't, I'd build it via compare-and-set!
16:55	zanes	That’s the answer I was looking for. Thanks!
16:55	tbaldridge	zanes: http://grimoire.arrdem.com/1.6.0/clojure.core/compare-and-set!/
16:55	dorkmafia	how do you make the up arrow run your previous command on the lein shell interface?
16:56	zanes	tbaldridge: In that case I need to first deref the old value, right?
16:57	tbaldridge	zanes: right, you deref, run code, and then run compare-and-set! if it returns true, you run your side-effects
16:57	zanes	tbaldridge: 👍
16:58	TEttinger	(inc tbaldridge)
16:58	lazybot	⇒ 10
16:59	jtackett	I have a long running process that i need for the next web page view
16:59	jtackett	how can I return the page and display the process output when it is finished?
17:00	justin_smith	jtackett: you could use a future, and block on the return value of the future
17:01	justin_smith	scratch that
17:01	justin_smith	you'd need a web socket (misread your question at first)
17:01	jtackett	a web socket?
17:01	jtackett	how does that work?
17:02	justin_smith	it lets you send data to the browser after the request is complete - it leave a data socket open
17:02	jtackett	do you put that in the view?
17:02	justin_smith	so they get the page immediately, and the rest of the data as soon as it is ready
17:03	jtackett	can i use hiccup for that?
17:03	J_Arcane	Instarepl is cool.
17:03	justin_smith	jtackett: hiccup is orthogonal to this
17:03	justin_smith	jtackett: the issue here is that you need to return a page right now, and later you need to send more data
17:03	jtackett	so what code do I put where? haha
17:04	jtackett	in a view / handler set up
17:04	justin_smith	jtackett: http://http-kit.org/server.html#websocket this is an example, not all ring backends support websockets
17:04	ired_44	amalloy: i think it's specifically to resolve the var
17:05	jtackett	perfect thank you
17:05	danielcompton	Server sent events might also be an option here
17:05	justin_smith	danielcompton: true
17:05	ired_44	amalloy: I tried using fn?, but it always evaluates to false
17:05	danielcompton	jtackett: you get a callback in the browser when new data comes from the server
17:05	justin_smith	danielcompton: if you look at that http-kit example, that is what you are actually doing
17:05	zanes	tbaldridge: I always want to do the set!, though. So I’d have to build retry logic manually?
17:06	zanes	I feel like I’m missing something still.
17:06	danielcompton	You wouldn't be doing a whole page reload but could get the same effect
17:06	justin_smith	danielcompton: on a semantics level, if not on the impl level
17:07	danielcompton	justin_smith: right. I think i'd prefer SSE for that scenario because it stays in HTTP land
17:09	danielcompton	justin_smith: unified async/websockets looks cool http://http-kit.org/server.html#channel
17:11	ired_44	amalloy: do you know if there's a better way to determine whether something is a function, within the body of a macro?
17:12	SagiCZ1	.
17:12	SagiCZ1	,"."
17:12	clojurebot	"."
17:12	J_Arcane	#clojurescript
17:14	zanes	i.e. Is there a more succinct or idiomatic way to do this? https://gist.github.com/zane/d28a4b49935dd23d7612
17:15	hiredman	well, a. don't mix atoms and the stm
17:15	hiredman	atoms are non-transactional, that dosync does nothing
17:16	zanes	Hmm. I should probably read up before asking this question.
17:16	hiredman	yep
17:19	amalloy	ired_44: well, what you're doing is just fundamentally both weird and difficult. there are a lot of edge cases you're going to miss with your current approach
17:21	amalloy	like, consider (docprint (let [map {1 2, 3 4}] (count map)))
17:23	dorkmafia	is there a lein rc or anything?
17:24	technomancy	dorkmafia: no, but current master will probably become 2.4.4 as soon as we are confident in its stability
17:25	ired_44	amalloy: good point. hmm, do you think some kind of decorator macro would be a good idea? e.g.. choose the functions that I want to docprint and redefine them to a wrapped version... something like: (decorate! docprint-fn [fns...])
17:25	zanes	hiredman: https://gist.github.com/zane/d28a4b49935dd23d7612
17:25	amalloy	ired_44: that would be a much more viable approach. but you could probably just find some pre-built solution, like tools.trace or something, for that
17:26	technomancy	dorkmafia: would be great to get some folks using it and giving it a sanity check
17:26	amalloy	ired_44: the reason, by the way, that your macroexpand doesn't work is that macroexpand runs at runtime rather than compile time, and in the clojure.core namespace instead of in the namespace you compiled it from
17:27	amalloy	although actually when i run all this in my repl it does work as you intend
17:28	ired_44	amalloy: yeah I was confused by that. also, I was able to define other functions that it would expand, but not elect-n, and it seemed arbitrary
17:33	dorkmafia	technomancy: ah i meant .leinrc like a bashrc lol not release canidate sorry about that :) I am trying to make the up arrow show my previous command and <c-r> be the reverse search
17:33	ired_44	amalloy: I was looking at this decorate code: https://github.com/weavejester/decorate/blob/master/src/decorate.clj
17:34	technomancy	dorkmafia: haha, oh. ok. yes, leiningen has several configuration files, but none of them should be needed to get the behaviour you're describing.
17:35	amalloy	ired_44: solution: stop looking at it. something weavejester hasn't touched in five years is not a great thing to model future programs on
17:36	danielcompton	technomancy: why is the Gilardi Scenario called that?
17:36	amalloy	danielcompton: gilardi thought of it first, or popularized it, i always imagined
17:37	technomancy	danielcompton: because we were debugging this problem for like two days, and then we hired Steve Gilardi, and basically the first thing he did after starting was explain exactly what was going on and how to fix it.
17:37	noonian	lol
17:42	xeqi	.. that was named after a person that is still alive?
17:43	xeqi	I thought it was some historic / sci-fi reference I didn't get
17:43	technomancy	it's named after the guy who wrote clojure.core/require
17:43	hyPiRion	xeqi: hahah
17:45	xeqi	I might already have, but didn't put it together
17:45	TEttinger	Gilardi Scenario?
17:45	amalloy	xeqi: it certainly sounds like sci-fi, but we have a real live gilardi
17:46	amalloy	i avoid mentioning his first name because i forget if he likes steve, steven, or stephen
17:46	hyPiRion	I would probably guess the same thing if I didn't see commits by gilardi within lein
17:46	amalloy	scgilardi: you're a legend!
17:47	amalloy	~gilardi scenario
17:47	clojurebot	I don't understand.
17:47	xeqi	hyPiRion: whats really bad is I recognize scgilardi from emails on the clojure list, but never put the two together
17:47	amalloy	$google gilardi scenario
17:47	lazybot	[in which the perils of the gilardi scenario are overcome - Technomancy] http://technomancy.us/143
17:48	amalloy	clojurebot: gilardi scenario \|is\| http://technomancy.us/143
17:48	clojurebot	You don't have to tell me twice.
17:50	hoangelos	anyone have any experience using amazonica. Especially that are already using a truststore.
17:50	hyPiRion	It's sort of like my surprise when I read http://www.tutok.sk/fastgl/callback.html without actually looking at the author's name.
17:50	hoangelos	I'm getting an error whenever I set javax.net.ssl.trustStore with my trustStore for my SSL enabled app.
17:51	TEttinger	~gilardi scenario
17:51	clojurebot	gilardi scenario is http://technomancy.us/143
17:51	TEttinger	yay
17:51	dorkmafia	technomancy: then how do i make the up arrow take me to the previous command and <c-r> preform reverse search? right now up arrow is preforming rev search
17:51	dorkmafia	as well as <c-r>
17:52	scgilardi	I happened across the gilardi scenario again myself recently, working on "declare+" which allows declaring in other namespaces (to be used sparingly to work around otherwise circular deps). I kept wondering why code inside '(do' would work, and inside '(try' would fail. And then it dawned on me. https://gist.github.com/scgilardi/e040cd35c85cc96b9739
17:52	hyPiRion	There has to be some trust store policy change for java, because I've seen people complaining about trust store issues every day the last 3 days
17:53	dorkmafia	maybe it's due to inconsistencies between my inputrc and bashrc O.o
17:53	dorkmafia	what's the default behavior for lein gen?
17:54	technomancy	dorkmafia: try moving .inputrc out of the way. the default behaviour is C-r to do a reverse search and C-p to step through history one by one
17:54	technomancy	it looks like the arrows are unbound out of the box
17:54	hyPiRion	hoangelos: I have no idea how amazonica works, but if it's ubuntu/debian-based and you can install stuff, then `sudo apt-get install --reinstall ca-certificates-java` might help
17:55	hyPiRion	apologies if it's entirely wrong, I have my suspicion that it may not help you
17:55	technomancy	how is it even possible to install a jdk without installing the jdk's certifdicates
17:56	dorkmafia	yup that was the issue sorry guys
17:56	dorkmafia	=P
17:56	mearnsh	technomancy: idk but that happened to me as well.
17:57	hyPiRion	technomancy: I have no clue, but apparently reinstalling the java certificates solved the issue
17:57	hoangelos	hyPiRion: no not really
17:57	hoangelos	hyPiRion: but thanks anyway for saying something.
17:59	technomancy	mearnsh: what distribution/version?
18:00	hyPiRion	hoangelos: if it's any help, then the same issue would exist for Java and Scala as well. Perhaps googling with any of those would help
18:00	mearnsh	technomancy: i believe it was with openjdk 7
18:00	TEttinger	hoangelos, are you starting with the recommendations that datomic makes for their usage of truststore? -Djavax.net.ssl.trustStore=path-to-truststore -Djavax.net.ssl.trustStorePassword=T* -Djavax.net.ssl.keyStore=path-to-keystore -Djavax.net.ssl.keyStorePassword=K***** my-transactor.properties
18:00	jtackett_	what would be the easiest way
18:01	mearnsh	mearnsh: might be a quirk of my system or package manager. but reinstall fixed it.
18:01	hyPiRion	technomancy: I recall someone using fedora
18:01	technomancy	hyPiRion: ah, gotcha
18:03	hoangelos	TEttinger: not sure what you mean by the datomic recommendations as it pertains to amazonica. HOwever, our app, which uses truststore and keystores for it's own server<->client HTTP already successfully used. But the trustStore one specifically makes amazonica fail.
18:04	TEttinger	I had never heard of amazonica before today, so I am not the one to ask. it does look like this is a challenge to search for
18:05	hoangelos	yeah. it's just a clojure library for amazon. one of the most complete.
18:05	hoangelos	just a wrapper for the amazon java library
18:07	jtackett_	just trying to figure out the websocket
18:13	dorkmafia	ater you do lein repl do you need to kill it and re run after you make changes?
18:15	TEttinger	dorkmafia: (require '[your.ns :reload])
18:16	TEttinger	I think I recall the syntax right :\|
18:16	mearnsh	dorkmafia: which editor
18:16	dorkmafia	lein repl
18:16	dorkmafia	TEttinger: what if i set the main to be my namespace
18:16	mearnsh	sorry, which text editor do you use
18:16	technomancy	dorkmafia: you can reload from lein repl, but it's a lot more convenient to do it from your editor.
18:16	dorkmafia	mearnsh: vim
18:16	mearnsh	dorkmafia: https://github.com/tpope/vim-fireplace
18:17	dorkmafia	ah yes all praise the pope
18:17	TEttinger	I wonder how I would do that in nightcode
18:17	mearnsh	indeed
18:17	mearnsh	should auto connect to your repl if you start it in your project dir
18:17	technomancy	protip: tpope is short for "The Pope"
18:18	mearnsh	otherwise just :Connect and then you can use the likes of "cpr" to reload your buffer in the repl
18:21	hyPiRion	,(sequential? "foo")
18:21	clojurebot	false
18:24	dorkmafia	(:require [clojure.string :as string]) is this correct?
18:24	technomancy	dorkmafia: it's fine for putting in the ns macro
18:24	technomancy	clojurebot: the ns macro?
18:24	clojurebot	the ns macro is more complicated than it needs to be, but this might help http://blog.8thlight.com/colin-jones/2010/12/05/clojure-libs-and-namespaces-require-use-import-and-ns.html
18:24	technomancy	dorkmafia: ^ kind of required reading
18:25	technomancy	the difference between require in the repl and in the ns macro confuses a lot of people
18:32	mdrogalis	Does anybody else break out the popcorn when aphyr is about to Jepsen something?
18:33	dorkmafia	(ns mybot.core (:require [xmpp-clj :as xmpp] [clojure.string :as string]))
18:33	dorkmafia	technomancy: yah i had glanced over that I just wanted to make sure =B
18:33	jtackett_	hey looking for some more help with a long running process getting return to a web page
18:34	jtackett_	how do you return the web page and then update it with the result of the process when it’s finished
18:34	dorkmafia	cause the single quote is required on the shell
18:34	jtackett_	?
18:35	tuft	jtackett_: you need some kind of asynchronous execution it sounds like
18:35	tuft	jtackett_: .. and a mechanism like polling or websockets on the client
18:36	tuft	lots of ways to do this
18:36	jtackett_	could i use something like sente?
18:36	jtackett_	what’s the easiest way to implement?
18:36	jtackett_	I have a project built with compojure and hiccup
18:36	jtackett_	in a view and handler set up
18:37	tuft	jtackett_: sente looks promising
18:37	nick___	What is the recomend way of reading in a clojure file (and get clojure data structures)?
18:37	jtackett_	(slurp “filepath”)
18:38	jtackett_	nick: (slurp “filepath”)
18:38	hiredman	no
18:38	hiredman	slurp is the worst
18:38	L8D	(slurp "uri")
18:38	hiredman	slurp returns a string
18:38	L8D	(slurp "file://./foo.txt")
18:38	hiredman	so you have the entire string in memory, and the next thing people does is call read-string on it
18:38	hiredman	terrible
18:38	L8D	(slurp "ftp://ftp.myserver.org")
18:38	hiredman	,(doc read)
18:38	clojurebot	"([] [stream] [stream eof-error? eof-value] [stream eof-error? eof-value recursive?]); Reads the next object from stream, which must be an instance of java.io.PushbackReader or some derivee. stream defaults to the current value of in. Note that read can execute code (controlled by read-eval), and as such should be used only with trusted sources. For data structure interop use clojure.edn/read"
18:38	L8D	(slurp "http://www.google.com")
18:39	L8D	,(+ 1 2)
18:39	clojurebot	3
18:39	L8D	,(slurp "http://jsonip.com")
18:39	clojurebot	#<SecurityException java.lang.SecurityException: denied>
18:39	jtackett_	slurp it and call it a day
18:40	L8D	Or just create a stream and call it a day
18:40	jtackett_	tuft: how would you go about setting up the websocket?
18:40	jtackett_	do you have a good example?
18:41	tuft	jtackett_: seems like sente has some good ones. i've not used it
18:41	L8D	So, as JavaScript developer with mild experience in ruby/python web servers and little-to-no experience in developing with Java and Emacs, where should I start?
18:41	jtackett_	what have you used?
18:41	jtackett_	this is my first time doing web sockets
18:42	tuft	jtackett_: never used them actually, only polling =)
18:42	jtackett_	L8D: start with java or clojure?
18:42	jtackett_	could I use polling instead?
18:42	L8D	To learn Clojure and how to setup a dev workflow with Clojure and ClojureScript
18:42	jtackett_	L8D: download light table and get on youtube
18:43	L8D	I mean...I know the semantics of LISP and all, I've just never worked with Java or Java-based languages/systems
18:44	jtackett_	tuft: looks like websockets are better, but I just want the easy solution for now
18:44	tuft	L8D: coming from ruby/python you might enjoy just using the lein repl and whatever text editor you're used to
18:44	tuft	jtackett_: "easy" will probably be whatever provides the best abstraction
18:44	tuft	whatever library that is
18:44	L8D	tuft: I've mostly worked with JavaScript/Node.js, and I have more experience with haskell than ruby.python
18:45	L8D	and I'm a hard-set Vim user
18:47	tuft	i think there's something called "campfire" for vim
18:47	aperiodic	L8D: fireplace.vim
18:47	benmoss	fireplace
18:47	L8D	tuft: There's a colorscheme called campfire
18:47	benmoss	haha
18:47	tuft	er, hah, fireplace
18:47	tuft	i'm using cursive with vi emulation
18:51	mearnsh	fireplace is pretty nifty
18:51	danielcompton	jtackett_: I woudl look at Server Sent Events
18:52	jtackett_	is there a good example project I could look at?
18:53	danielcompton	jtackett_: you could look at https://github.com/ninjudd/eventual
18:55	danielcompton	jtackett_: also https://github.com/ck/samples/tree/master/server-sent-events but it's using the Pedestal framework which you likely aren't
18:55	danielcompton	https://github.com/pedestal/samples
18:56	jtackett_	I’m using compojure and hiccup
18:56	noonian	jtackett_: if you want a nice simple abstraction on websockets you should checkout chord, it models websockets as a core async channel. If you want something more robust with fallback like socket.io i would recommend sente, but that might be overkill for just getting started
18:57	noonian	https://github.com/james-henderson/chord
18:57	jtackett_	there has to be an easier way to do this haha
18:57	jtackett_	this client server stuff sucks
18:59	tuft	doesn't get much easier than core async channels
18:59	tuft	once you get chord working, i guess =)
19:00	jtackett_	hahaha ya once I get chord working
19:01	jtackett_	I’m just confused how to set it up
19:01	jtackett_	handler or view?
19:02	tuft	looks like a handler from the docs
19:02	noonian	jtackett_: are you using clojurescript on the client? or vanilla js? on the server you will need to setup a handler, and make sure you are using a server that supports websockets like http-kit
19:03	jtackett_	I am using compojure
19:03	jtackett_	and I’m using hiccup on the client side
19:04	jtackett_	so just compojure and ring to do the routes, and then basically html to serve up the views/pages
19:04	Jaood	hiccup runs on cljs?
19:04	noonian	jtackett_: you should be able to use the handler example from the chord readme (under the 'Clojure' heading) and then hook it into your server using a compojure route
19:05	jtackett_	Jaood: yep
19:05	jtackett_	and noonian: just put that into the handler file?
19:05	noonian	to use websockets from your client code you will need to use javascript, either normal js using websockets or if you are using clojurescript you can use chord and treat it like an async channel from the client as well
19:06	jtackett_	ah shit so i need js or cljs on the client side
19:06	jtackett_	would love to avoid learning that for now
19:06	noonian	you'll need to put the requires into your namespace form, and define the handler in your handlers file, then hook up the handler to your routes; something like (defroutes ... (GET "/my-ws" req (your-chord-handler req) ...)
19:07	noonian	i think you could use chord on the server side and just use vanilla js websockets if you are using a browser that supports websockets
19:07	jtackett_	then what would call that get request in the client end?
19:07	noonian	you might want to read about JavaScript websockets
19:07	jtackett_	i def will
19:07	dbasch	jtackett_: or cljs, for example https://github.com/ptaoussanis/sente
19:08	noonian	var exampleSocket = new WebSocket("ws://www.example.com/socketserver", "protocolOne");
19:08	noonian	however, the beauty of cljs is that if you already know core async then you don't have to know a thing about websockets heh
19:08	jtackett_	dbasch: that’s what my co-worker told me to use
19:09	jtackett_	ya i will probably go with sente
19:09	jtackett_	just need to figure it out
19:09	jtackett_	is there no other way to just fill in the text when the process finishes?
19:10	noonian	roughly: sente is to chord as socket.io was to websockets
19:14	amalloy	jtackett_: if you want to send an un-finished page to the client and then fill it in when the server's done with some other work, you have to have the client talk to the server somehow
19:14	noonian	jtackett_: you could poll the server until its finished using normal ajax requests
19:14	amalloy	if you're content to wait until the server-side process is done before sending anything, then of course it's easy
19:15	jtackett_	haha I’ll just make the jump and figure out sente
19:39	dbasch	jtackett: if you want to hack it as a proof-of-concept, you could have a frame that refreshes itself every X seconds
19:53	danneu	,(str #inst "2014-09-08T23:00:27.485207000-00:00")
19:53	clojurebot	#<SecurityException java.lang.SecurityException: denied>
19:53	danneu	i like how str/.toString truncates data from the string that's in the literal
20:12	qq	can I use clojure "get" on "java.util.Map"
20:13	technomancy	if only there were a way to attempt to perform this action and record its results, which could confirm or deny a constructed hypothesis
20:15	technomancy	err--I mean...
20:15	technomancy	try it and see?
20:20	danneu	if i have a java.sql.Timestamp represented with the literal `#inst "2014-09-08T23:10:58.915549000-00:00"`, is there a trivial way to get the string that's in the literal?
20:25	dbasch	danneu: pr-str
20:26	amalloy	danneu: (subs (pr-str sql-nonsense) 5) or something
20:28	danneu	rofl
20:28	danneu	thanks
20:48	joobus	are there more clojure practice problems similar to clojure koans? I finished the koans.
20:52	amalloy	joobus: 4clojure.com is one
20:52	amalloy	or you can do project euler in clojure (euler is back online again, right?)
20:56	llasram	,(binding [data-readers {'inst identity}] (read-string "#inst \"2014-09-08T23:10:58.915549000-00:00\""))
20:56	clojurebot	"2014-09-08T23:10:58.915549000-00:00"
20:59	joobus	was just looking at 4clojure. it would be nice if the problems were doable offline, in a text editor and the repl. The web interface isn't ideal. thanks for the tip :)
21:00	bbloom	joobus: just do the problems locally and then copy paste to do final verification
21:13	amalloy	joobus: there are numerous tools people have devised to automate the process bbloom recommends, as well
21:13	amalloy	a few lein plugins, an emacs mode or something...
21:43	joobus	i went with solving project euler problems, thanks amalloy :)
21:47	clj-newb	I see examples of private functions as (defn- and (defn ^:private defn- seems deprecated, but I can find no documentation to confirm this
22:08	technomancy	nah, it's not
22:30	ncthom91	hi all. I'm brand new to clojure, and actually mostly interested in clojurescript, but I can't figure out how to find all matches in a string with a given regex
22:31	bbloom	(doc re-seq)
22:31	clojurebot	"([re s]); Returns a lazy sequence of successive matches of pattern in string, using java.util.regex.Matcher.find(), each such match processed with re-groups."
22:32	ncthom91	bbloom perfect, thank you :)