#clojure – 2014-09-05

2014-09-05

00:00	ddellacosta	Licenser: sorry to hear that. :-(
00:00	Licenser	I'm demanding ;)
00:02	justin_smith	Licenser: yeah, it's kind of a brittle set of tools altogether
00:02	justin_smith	which emacs mode are you using?
00:03	dgaffney	Hey, sorry to bother y'all again - one more stumbling bock around doseq/map/seq/iterations over maps in general - can one of y'all translate this gist? https://gist.github.com/DGaffney/f13aa6c176240ecf2ffd
00:03	dgaffney	maybe a better way to say that would be to wrap it functionally...
00:04	dgaffney	updated.
00:04	Licenser	justin_smith wsomething I ended up with, and paredit :D
00:04	dgaffney	(that's what I'm trying to do in clojure as a ruby version (i'm so sorry.)
00:04	justin_smith	dgaffney: I don't know ruby, what would that output?
00:04	dgaffney	"one,1\ntwo,2\n"
00:05	dgaffney	thats what str would equal after the iteration.
00:05	dgaffney	I've been googlin' about but I'm not seeing the exact thing I'm looking for (which is the case for all my questions, obviously)
00:06	justin_smith	,,(apply str (mapcat #(apply format "%s,%s\n" %) {:one 1 :two 2}))
00:06	clojurebot	":one,1\n:two,2\n"
00:07	dgaffney	(Y) (Y) (Y)
00:07	dgaffney	hmm..
00:08	dgaffney	is all i'm missing really just mapcat instead of map/doseq/seq?
00:08	justin_smith	if you used strings as keys rather than keywords the output would match excctly
00:08	dgaffney	I have code that would work if it returned things.
00:08	justin_smith	or you could wrap the kw arg in a call to name
00:08	justin_smith	dgaffney: mapcat is for when each element returned is a sequence, and they should all be joined into one sequence
00:08	dgaffney	mm, sounds useful. and the # operator is for?
00:09	justin_smith	shortcut for fn
00:09	dgaffney	mm
00:09	justin_smith	,(apply str (map #(apply format "%s,%s\n" %) {:one 1 :two 2}))
00:09	clojurebot	":one,1\n:two,2\n"
00:09	justin_smith	actually I did not need mapcat there
00:10	justin_smith	the secret sauce was apply - turns the list from map into varargs to str
00:10	justin_smith	well, to format also :)
00:10	dgaffney	mostly following :)
00:11	justin_smith	apply takes any number of args, and unwraps the last arg (which must be a list) to make all the remaining args to the function that is the first arg
00:12	justin_smith	,(apply + 1 2 [3 4 5])
00:12	clojurebot	15
00:14	dgaffney	and what is % called in clojure world for increased googleability?
00:14	justin_smith	it is a token that means "the first arg" inside an fn made with #()
00:15	justin_smith	,(macroexpand-1 '#(+ 1 %))
00:15	clojurebot	(fn* [p1__103#] (+ 1 p1__103#))
00:15	justin_smith	hopefully that helps
00:15	justin_smith	,(macroexpand-1 '#(apply + 1 %&))
00:15	clojurebot	(fn* [& rest__128#] (apply + 1 rest__128#))
00:15	justin_smith	the varargs version
00:15	justin_smith	,(macroexpand-1 '#(+ 1 % %2))
00:15	clojurebot	(fn* [p1__153# p2__154#] (+ 1 p1__153# p2__154#))
00:15	justin_smith	the two arg version
00:16	justin_smith	that's most all you need to know about #() and % (I assume you can guess what %3 or even %1 would mean)
00:24	munderwo	ddellacosta: so I’ve got austin working in the browser so thats good. What about the noderepl side of things. i found bodil/noderepl is that the best one to try?
00:24	ddellacosta	munderwo: sorry, I can't offer any good advice on that front, haven't touched node at all. :-(
00:25	munderwo	ahh bugger.. I do always try to use the most esoteric parts of a stack however, so I’ve only got myself to blame. Im stabbing around with node-webkit which adds complexity to the matter :)
00:26	munderwo	on another note which is the real root of my problem I have a javascript lib that I need to do “var something = foo.bar.baz(arg1, arg2, func1)
00:27	munderwo	I know how to call a method on a javascript function. But I dont know how to get further down in the next.
00:28	gratimax	(.baz (.bar foo) arg1 arg2 func1)
00:28	TheMonarc	ca
00:29	TheMonarc	baz
00:29	munderwo	yeah thats what I thought. But I think that actually comes out as foo.bar().baz(arg1 arg2 func1)
00:30	justin_smith	munderwo: (-> foo .bar (.baz arg1 arg2 func1))
00:30	TheMonarc	car o cdr
00:31	justin_smith	munderwo: to unambiguously get properties rather than methods, use .-bar
00:31	munderwo	ahh!!! I think that might work!
00:31	justin_smith	(-> foo .-bar (.baz arg1 arg2 func1))
00:31	justin_smith	the -> syntax makes the mental conversion with js much easier
00:32	gratimax	yeah, I forgot about that -. A bit rusty in clojurescript
00:32	munderwo	yeah. Its a really wierd js lib.
00:32	munderwo	.bar is actually a function. but with another function under it…just wierd
00:33	justin_smith	ok, don't use .-bar for a function, use .bar
00:35	munderwo	huh.. actually I did need it to be -bar .. thanks!
00:35	gratimax	.- is for values, . is for calling functions
00:36	munderwo	wierd js lib….
00:38	gratimax	not sure what you mean, that's not strange, that's just how clojure works
00:38	gratimax	clojure has no such thing as objects with properties. the closest thing is maps
00:38	gratimax	so any s-expression is asssumed to be a function call, which unfortunately does not work with JS
00:39	justin_smith	gratimax: records are like objects with properties too
00:39	justin_smith	gratimax: and deftype, if you have a strict set of properties to set
00:40	dgaffney	blergh - justin_smith that wasn't exactly what I was looking for :(
00:40	justin_smith	dgaffney: so what are you trying to do?
00:40	dgaffney	care to answer one more q before I off for the night? I know new people are annoying some times, I'm trying to minimize that.
00:40	dgaffney	I promise what I'm working on is cool though...
00:41	justin_smith	~ask
00:41	clojurebot	The Ask To Ask protocol wastes more bandwidth than any version of the Ask protocol, so just ask your question.
00:41	tac_	~ask May I ask why that is?
00:41	clojurebot	Pardon?
00:41	gratimax	justin_smith: but the thing is we never use the record properties outside the scope of the record declaration or method declaration
00:41	justin_smith	gratimax: wat
00:42	dgaffney	https://gist.github.com/DGaffney/9de267eeb1a337a7a531 < this thing.
00:42	dgaffney	clojurebot has a much better ask response than ruby channel does.
00:42	justin_smith	dgaffney: do you want a proper *ml templating lib, or is this an exercise?
00:43	dgaffney	I'm trying to setup a namespace that will convert what will be a series of nested maps into a specific *ml, GEXF
00:44	justin_smith	https://github.com/cgrand/enlive I like enlive for html manipulation
00:44	dgaffney	The reason for homerolling is that the rules for this document are specific enough and annoying enough that writing it as a homerolled thing is much less a pain than doing it any other way in my experience
00:44	justin_smith	Raynes also has a templating lib, https://github.com/Raynes/laser
00:44	justin_smith	OK
00:46	dgaffney	I think that if I see a demo of some code given that input/output I'll have enough to finish up this file, which should be sufficient to get to the place I want to be.
00:46	dgaffney	which means I'll stop bothering you all!
00:46	gratimax	justin_smith: the point I was getting at is that it is just semantics. clojurescript needed the extra .- out of necessity
00:46	dgaffney	... until I start learning how to use futures ...
00:47	justin_smith	gratimax: ahh, right, because we have other ways to make sure the method on the thing and the property of the thing are unambiguous (though we now can use .- in jvm clojure too)
00:48	justin_smith	dgaffney: do you want something fully general that walks the input, or is the input totally predictable in structure?
00:48	dgaffney	the keynames and values will differ but the general structure will be the same, justin_smith
00:48	gratimax	justin_smith: exactly
00:59	dgaffney	what says you, justin_smith?
01:01	justin_smith	dgaffney: something like this https://www.refheap.com/89828
01:01	justin_smith	it's a bit ugly, I think the output is right
01:01	justin_smith	err mostly
01:01	justin_smith	you will have to turn k into (name k) I think in the prop fn
01:02	dgaffney	mm
01:03	dgaffney	hah, tried (str k) immediately
01:03	justin_smith	and probably turn the (apply str (map ...)) in contents into another string/join
01:03	dgaffney	lemme try that.
01:03	dgaffney	that's exactly it.
01:03	dgaffney	awesome.
01:03	dgaffney	now, to wrap that into a file write
01:03	dgaffney	then its all amazing
01:03	justin_smith	it's ugly and not very general, but at least it is somewhat clear
01:04	dgaffney	yes - I'll learn and play with it.
01:04	dgaffney	Alright, I'm signing off for the night. Thanks for all the help through the day, justin_smith!
01:04	dgaffney	great first day in the clojure world. You guys are pretty nice.
01:05	justin_smith	also, if it ends up being a performance bottleneck, the jvm has StringBuilder that does the equivalent of s += s2
01:05	dgaffney	mm
01:05	dgaffney	I doubt it will be a bottleneck, coming from ruby ;)
01:05	dgaffney	but yeah, I'll check out StringBuilder.
01:06	justin_smith	well, immutible things are easier in general
01:06	dgaffney	I'm learning that.
01:06	dgaffney	alright, night!
01:06	justin_smith	good night
01:06	dgaffney	thank you, seriously. You shaved off hours of this exercise in learning a new language in what was way too many years in rubyland.
01:06	dgaffney	night!
01:47	bcm	is there something like paredit, but for html?
01:50	ddellacosta	bcm: ask in #emacs? although probably someone around here knows too
01:50	gratimax	bcm: closest thing I can think of in the ballpark is emmet, but I don't think that's for emacs
01:51	gratimax	well, wait. no such tool exists, because there are some tags without closing tags
01:51	gratimax	like img, input, and probably more
02:01	bcm	damnit that's why
02:02	bcm	wow dave, nice oauth+friend work
02:22	ddellacosta	bcm: sorry was away. thanks. :-) A bit behind on updates to the lib though, unfortunately.
02:54	mpenet	seanaway: jetty9 (server and client) support websocket and there are adapters for it, ex https://github.com/mpenet/jet
03:15	babygau	could anyone please explain core.reducers in layman's term. I'm not Eng native speaker so I find it difficult to understand from @rich hickey's article
03:22	bcm	ddellacosta: aren't we all 1/2 away. I'll probably use your lib for my current project: www.elgethub.com
03:26	ddellacosta	bcm: neat.
03:30	ddellacosta	bcm: anyways, if you need a hand with it, ping me
03:30	ddellacosta	bcm: at least, the oauth2 stuff.
03:51	babygau	could anyone please explain core.reducers in layman's term?
05:35	sm0ke	what the easiest way to dump some bytes to a file and read them back
05:35	sm0ke	into array of same length
05:36	clgv	sm0ke: ObjectOutputStream or DataOutputStream wrapped around FileOutputStream
05:36	sm0ke	ugh thats easy? i was hoping something like spit and slurp
05:37	clgv	sm0ke: or one of the serialization libraries
05:37	sm0ke	dont worry about serialization , given data is just ##(.getBytes "abc")
05:37	lazybot	⇒ #<byte[] [B@39147d0f>
05:37	clgv	sm0ke: nippy or carbonite?
05:38	clgv	sm0ke: serialization to files, I meant ;)
05:38	sm0ke	,(spit "/tmp/ok" (.getBytes "foo"))
05:38	clojurebot	#<SecurityException java.lang.SecurityException: denied>
05:39	clgv	sm0ke: I have one myself that is battle-tested in our projects. there you'd just do (quick-freeze "foo.data" "abc") or (quick-freeze "foo.data" (.getBytes "abc"))
05:40	clgv	sm0ke: it's that one https://github.com/guv/frost
05:41	sm0ke	nice but it looking for something raw
05:41	sm0ke	i am*
05:41	sm0ke	i am trying to track down a problem with nippy
05:41	sm0ke	i think is a*
06:21	clgv	sm0ke: ah ok. well use the streams I mentioned - cant get rawer than that ;)
06:29	cfleming	Testing testing 1 2 3
06:34	sm0ke	,(apply prn (concat (repeat 2 "Testing") (range 1 4)))
06:35	clojurebot	"Testing" "Testing" 1 2 3\n
06:35	sm0ke	,(apply print (concat (repeat 2 "Testing") (range 1 4)))
06:35	clojurebot	Testing Testing 1 2 3
06:35	cubix	hi, does anybody know some FSM library that works in ClojureScript?
06:36	cubix	I tried https://github.com/cdorrat/reduce-fsm but failed
06:57	clgv	cubix: how about https://github.com/ztellman/automat ?
06:58	clgv	sm0ke: yeah "prn" is inteded to get an output that clojure can read back in
07:03	sm0ke	hmm ##(pr "foo")
07:03	lazybot	⇒ "foo"nil
07:03	sm0ke	,(doc pr)
07:03	clojurebot	"([] [x] [x & more]); Prints the object(s) to the output stream that is the current value of out. Prints the object(s), separated by spaces if there is more than one. By default, pr and prn print in a way that objects can be read by the reader"
07:03	sm0ke	i wonder whats the difference
07:03	sm0ke	,(doc prn)
07:04	clgv	sm0ke: you can read i back e.g. with `read-string`
07:04	clojurebot	"([& more]); Same as pr followed by (newline). Observes flush-on-newline"
07:04	sm0ke	oh i mean between pr and prn, doc makes it clear now
07:04	clgv	,[(type (read-string (pr "abc"))) (type (read-string (with-out-str (print "abc"))))]
07:04	clojurebot	"abc"#<NullPointerException java.lang.NullPointerException>
07:05	sm0ke	,(pr (java.util.Date.))
07:05	clojurebot	#inst "2014-09-05T11:04:40.975-00:00"
07:05	sm0ke	(print (java.util.Date.))
07:05	clgv	`pr` and `prn` differ by the line break printed by the latter
07:06	clgv	the bot wont show you that though
07:06	sm0ke	it will i guess
07:06	clgv	,(prn "clojurebot")
07:06	clojurebot	"clojurebot"\n
07:06	clgv	ah he does ^^
07:06	clgv	,(pr "clojurebot")
07:06	clojurebot	"clojurebot"
07:13	cubix	clgv: thanks, I'll check this out
07:19	cubix	clgv: hm, I tried automat, but when added to the project.clj & source file, I only get "WARNING: No such namespace: automat.core"
07:20	cubix	clgv: could it mean that automat doesn't work in ClojureScript?
07:21	luxbock	I think it most definitely doesn't
07:22	cubix	luxbock: are you referring to my question?
07:22	luxbock	yes
07:23	cubix	luxbox: ok, thanks
07:24	cubix	aa, OK, now I see: it uses Java code internally, I should have checked before asking :)
07:28	christian_stamm	hi. i'm looking for a way to distribute a (css-)file with a clojure lib and then copy it to a target path during leiningen build of the project using the lib.
07:29	christian_stamm	pretty sure im missing something quite obvious
07:31	beamso	lein jar should take anything from the 'resources' directory and put it into the jar
07:31	christian_stamm	beamso. yes. that part works.
07:32	christian_stamm	now i want to take it from the jar in another projects build
07:32	beamso	is the other project also built by leiningen?
07:32	christian_stamm	yes
07:33	beamso	you can have nested leiningen projects
07:34	beamso	https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/master/doc/TUTORIAL.md#checkout-dependencies
07:34	beamso	it's also dependent on how you want to access or use the file
07:34	clgv	cubix: oh, you asked for cljs...
07:36	christian_stamm	beamso, that would be fine for development I guess.
07:37	christian_stamm	the goal would be to distribute the file with library A. The project B uses the library and puts the file to the right place at build time.
07:38	clgv	christian_stamm: when you build a standalone jar (uberjar) for deployment of the project all the files from the depencies are part of that uberjar
07:38	christian_stamm	project B is clojurescript by the way. An is used by opening a html-file. The css needs to be placed relative to the html
07:39	christian_stamm	so i have to move it from classpath to a filesystem path
07:39	christian_stamm	clgv, yes. still i would have to copy the file somehow
07:42	clgv	christian_stamm: ah ok, I dont know about clojurescript best practices for that case but in a clojure project you would not have to copy it
07:44	christian_stamm	I guess i will be coding my first leiningen plugin this weekend then.
07:48	beamso	can you use version control or something instead of a leiningen plugin?
07:48	beamso	you can refer to other repos in both svn and git
07:52	clgv	christian_stamm: copying will create a new error source
07:53	christian_stamm	clgv. yes but it is vital for my usecase
07:54	christian_stamm	i guess
08:00	clgv	you should double check that ;)
08:03	christian_stamm	i will :)
08:12	babygau	http://stackoverflow.com/questions/25681197/explain-core-reducers-library-in-laymans-term
08:19	clgv	babygau: no lazyseqs therefore parallelizable
08:20	babygau	@clgv, tks, I got it, but I'm not clear about `reducible` function
08:21	clgv	babygau: I think that categorizes how many arguments the resulting function has...
08:21	babygau	what I understand after reading Rich article is `core.reducers` return a `reducer` which is `reducible` collection
08:22	babygau	but I haven't figured out how it work :(
08:22	clgv	babygau: a function passed to `reduce` always gets two parameters: the previous result (or initial value) and the next value
08:23	clgv	babygau: whil the sequence functions build a lazyseq object, the function from the reducers namespace build function compositions
08:23	clgv	babygau: so it is lazy-sequence composition vs function composition
08:24	babygau	@clgv: how could they turn `sequable`collection into `reducible` collection
08:27	clgv	babygau: what exactly do you want to know about that? implementation details?
08:28	babygau	@clgv: ok, that explains why `core.reducers` can be `curried` functions as well
08:28	babygau	@clgv, that's exactly what I want
08:29	clgv	babygau: well than have a look at `reducer`, `folder` and `defcurried`
08:30	babygau	@clgv, I know it could be so over my head, bcoz I'm so new to #clojure but I want to understand it to some extend
08:31	clgv	babygau: well then, if I were you, being new to clojure I'd try to understand how to use reducers conceptually and leave out the implementation details
08:31	babygau	@clgv, just found this one over Google, is it one https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/clj/clojure/core/reducers.clj
08:31	clgv	babygau: yeah that's clojure's main repository ;)
08:33	babygau	@clgv tks, I'm looking at it now :-P
08:34	babygau	@clgv, where could I find some idiomatic for naming function and its args in #clojure
08:35	babygau	@clgv: does `ret` stands for `return`???
08:35	lazybot	babygau: How could that be wrong?
08:36	babygau	@lazybot: it's just bcoz I'm new to #clojure and want to learn some good style guide of how to write properly #clojure code
08:36	clgv	babygau: there is no such ruleset
08:36	clgv	babygau: lazybot is actually a bot and no real person ;)
08:36	clgv	right lazybot???
08:37	clgv	lazybot: do you ignore me??
08:37	clgv	:(
08:37	clgv	???
08:37	clgv	damn it does not trigger
08:37	clgv	&(inc 1)
08:38	babygau	@lazybot: if you use (doc some-thing) in REPL, you will see the authors have his own naming style guide >.<
08:38	lazybot	clgv: Yes, 100% for sure.
08:38	lazybot	clgv: Uh, no. Why would you even ask?
08:38	lazybot	clgv: Oh, absolutely.
08:38	lazybot	⇒ 2
08:38	clgv	uuhh damn he lags behind
08:38	babygau	@clgv it's so funny haha
08:45	babygau	@clgv: if I see it general form (xf reducing-fn) -> reducing-fn, xf means transformation function, right?
08:46	dagda1_	how do I return a lazy sequence from a function?
08:49	AimHere	dagda1_, depends how you want your function turned into a lazy sequence
08:50	AimHere	DO you mean a function that returns a lazy sequence, or a lazy sequence of the function's iterated return values, or what?
08:50	dagda1_	AimHere: I guess if the last call of the function is reduce thent that will return a lazy seq
08:51	AimHere	You guess wrong
08:51	AimHere	Reduce isn't lazy
08:51	dagda1_	AimHere: take is though?
08:51	dagda1_	AimHere; take returns a lazy seq
08:52	AimHere	Take returns a lazy sequence if you feed it a sequence
08:53	AimHere	Reduce doesn't return a sequence. reductions returns a lazy sequence of the interim values of reduce, though
08:53	AimHere	,(take 10 (reductions + (range)))
08:53	AimHere	&(take 10 (reductions + (range)))
08:53	clojurebot	(0 1 3 6 10 ...)
08:53	lazybot	⇒ (0 1 3 6 10 15 21 28 36 45)
08:53	clgv	today: the big bot lag!
08:54	AimHere	clojurebot used a nonlazy range, and calculated the entire sequence
08:55	justin_smith	AimHere: what is a nonlazy range?
08:55	AimHere	One where (range) is a nonlazy sequence and has to be evaluated in full before you do anything with it
08:56	justin_smith	so why did he return at all? or do you mean somewhere other than the immediate scrollback
08:57	clgv	AimHere: huh? no, you forced printing since the lazy-seq was the result - it is still a lazyseq both bots returned
08:57	AimHere	It was a joke. I was hinting that the reason clojurebot took a few seconds to calculate the first 10 triangle sequence was that it was evaluating an infinite loop
08:57	justin_smith	that's a weird joke
08:57	clgv	strangely worded then :P
08:57	AimHere	It made sense to me at the time
08:57	justin_smith	CLOJURE IS NO LAUGHING MATTER
09:04	thesaskwatch	Hi, anyone had a problem with "error in process filter: Variable binding depth exceeds max-specpdl-size" in cider?
09:06	clgv	thesaskwatch: did you search the issues on github?
09:07	justin_smith	thesaskwatch: this is emacs language for "stack overflow" - it happens in a lot of different code, and it means someone was using recursion where they should be using a loop - emacs has no TCO
09:08	thesaskwatch	justin_smith: thanks
09:08	justin_smith	thesaskwatch: recently there have been reports of larger amounts of output making this happen
09:08	thesaskwatch	I didn't use recursion, but I guess I have tons of recursion beneath few lib calls
09:08	justin_smith	but I have seen that even in the built in eshell if my lines get long enough
09:08	justin_smith	thesaskwatch: well, its on the elisp side
09:09	justin_smith	they are likely using some recursive code where they need a loop
09:09	thesaskwatch	justin_smith: my case is processing tens of thousands of db rows
09:09	justin_smith	if you know how to reproduce it, you could turn on debug-on-error
09:09	thesaskwatch	justin_smith: ok, I'll try to
09:09	justin_smith	thesaskwatch: if you are doing a lot of printing, try logging directly to a file rather than sending it all to out
09:09	thesaskwatch	justin_smith: ok, thanks
09:10	justin_smith	because the overflow with massive output amounts is a known issue
09:21	bja	any pointers of building clojure apps that want their own version of ring/compojure and depend on storm-core?
09:22	clgv	bja: what does "want their own version of ..." mean?
09:22	bja	I've recompiled storm-core at this point, patching it to the latest versions of its clojure dependencies (and fixing the resulting bugs due to migrating to newer library versions0, but this doesn't seem like a very good long term solution since it now just pins me on slightly newer library versions
09:23	clgv	bja: ah you have conflicting dependencies in your preoject?
09:23	justin_smith	bja: if you make your own version of a lib, you can either uberjar locally, or push your own artifact to a repo like clojars
09:23	justin_smith	bja: for conflicting deps, you need to use :exclusions in project.clj
09:24	bja	well, exclusions won't work in my case (due to storm's default build being an uberjar)
09:24	bja	that is the source of my problems actually
09:24	justin_smith	yeah, package and deploy your own version of storm-core then
09:24	bja	the normal binary distribution of storm includes ancient copies of various ring middleware, hiccup, and composure
09:24	bja	*compjure
09:25	bja	err, well, I give up spelling that
09:25	bja	ok, that was what I feared
09:26	bja	thanks!
09:26	clgv	no chance that they update their deps?
09:26	bja	clgv, there's a thread that goes back to pre-migration to apache about it
09:26	bja	they want to solve the problem in general
09:27	justin_smith	if it isn't aot, it may be possible to insert your own version of the deps in the classpath to take precedance, but in the presence of aot you are pretty much screwed I think
09:27	bja	storm is AOT'd
09:28	clgv	justin_smith: woah! you are worshipping the devil! :O :P
09:28	justin_smith	if only we had some VERY_OFFICIAL_DOCUMENT informing the world that in the clojure ecosystem, shipping AOT is a bug
09:28	justin_smith	clgv: ?
09:28	bja	it lead to a very weird situation of being able to (-> "ring/util/codecs.clj" clojure.java.io/resource slurp println) to see the source I expected but (require 'ring.util.codecs) found the AOT'd .class that storm provided
09:28	clgv	justin_smith: the classpath override suggestion ;)
09:29	justin_smith	well I mean to do it via a sane manner, like specifying your deps earlier in project.clj
09:29	clgv	ah right. though the newer version could have breaking changes, in that case bja is screwed
09:29	justin_smith	bja: yeah, that's the kind of shit aot causes
09:30	clgv	justin_smith: sounded like you want to manipulate the classpath manuall ;)
09:30	bja	I think I'm just going to fork all of their dependencies, rename their class path and just pin those there
09:30	bja	at least then the aot'd versions won't bite me
09:30	justin_smith	I'd say the presence of AOT is all the excuse you need to make your own packaging with updated deps
09:30	justin_smith	yeah
09:30	bja	the updated dependencies don't even really matter. I mean, I don't really care where the include-js macro from hiccup lives
09:31	bja	just wish that I could :exclusions [hiccup ring compojure] on storm-core like I can with everything else
09:37	Bronsa	1.7.0-alpha2 is out
09:37	justin_smith	cool
09:38	clgv	Bronsa: what's new?
09:39	Bronsa	clgv: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/changes.md :)
09:39	clgv	oh there's actually something there
09:41	clgv	oh `update`, but does that mean (update-in m [] f) does not get fixed?
09:42	justin_smith	oh, the warn on boxed math feature is a massive game changer
09:42	puredanger	thx :)
09:42	puredanger	I expect it will undergo further changes in how you turn it on/off before 1.7.0 final but I have found it very useful
09:43	clgv	yeah, definitely a good idea
09:43	justin_smith	glad to see it in there for sure
09:44	puredanger	I wrote that while I was doing Alioth perf improvements. got tired of reading bytecode to tell whether boxing was happening.
09:44	Bronsa	hah
09:45	justin_smith	puredanger: is there an overhead to the check, such that you would want to turn it on during dev, and off in prod, or is it basically free?
09:45	puredanger	it's compile-time, so not a big deal
09:45	Bronsa	http://xkcd.com/1205/ made me think of this
09:46	clgv	so transducer will remain as -1 arg versions of the lazy functions? can we get an exception if we set i-do-not-want-to-use-transducers to true? just because I remember that missing params in threading statements happen pretty frequently
09:46	puredanger	clgv: yes. and no. to your questions :)
09:46	Bronsa	clgv: yeah that's the only thing that kinda sucks about having transients & lazy-seq fns in the same var
09:46	justin_smith	clgv: I bet robert.hooke could fix that for you
09:47	Bronsa	error messages will get weird
09:47	clgv	yeah. thats what I feared. another exception that doesnt tell anyone what really went wrong
09:47	Bronsa	cannot create ISeq from clojure.core$foo is the new ArityException
09:48	clgv	:O :(
09:48	mikerod	Bronsa: on this change page for 1.7 I noticed the same changes list for JDK 1.7 update and ASM update
09:48	clgv	it probably happens off-site as well
09:48	mikerod	I guess that was just copied over from 1.6?
09:48	Bronsa	mikerod: dunno ask puredanger :)
09:48	puredanger	mikerod: I don't understand what you're asking
09:49	mikerod	:P
09:49	puredanger	link?
09:49	mikerod	https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/changes.md list a JDK update
09:49	mikerod	Same as https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/clojure-1.6.0/changes.md
09:49	mikerod	As well as ASM.
09:49	puredanger	the change list is additive
09:49	mikerod	oh woops!
09:49	mikerod	sorry
09:49	mikerod	I need to read headers better
09:51	mikerod	Transducers seemed to throw in a curve ball for me when I was reading the recent stuff the other day. I noticed this new 1-arity version of the reducing function.
09:51	mikerod	My understanding of this is that that fn will be called once the reduction is complete? That seems to add a whole new level of power to reduce
09:51	clgv	,(clojure-version)
09:52	clgv	is clojurebot tracking daily builds or something like that? since he usually reports "-master"
09:52	mikerod	Without the 1-arity, a reducing fn couldn't perform anything once the reduction was "done". I was just surprised to see this is now there, when I didn't read about it anywhere before seeing it added to the commits.
09:53	puredanger	mikerod: it was being filled in with identity automatically via the completing function
09:53	puredanger	we encountered cases where you wanted to have that ability though (for example, closing a transient collection), so it's been promoted into public use
09:53	mikerod	puredanger: yes, but it is giving a new "hook" for a reducing fn to know when the reduction is complete right?
09:54	mikerod	puredanger: yes, the transient example is a good one.
09:54	puredanger	sure
09:54	mikerod	What I'm curious about, is will clojure.core.reducers/fold also use this?
09:54	puredanger	no
09:54	puredanger	or at least, no plans right now
09:54	puredanger	we do expect to add some kind of parallel-reduce capability to core
09:54	puredanger	but unsure yet what shape that will take
09:55	mikerod	Hmm. I thought that may be valuable if you wanted to do something at each paralell leaf that was about the whole coll at that leaf being reduced
09:55	mikerod	parallel*
09:55	Bronsa	puredanger: is that something that is planned for 1.7 or "sometimes in the future"?
09:55	puredanger	I would expect it to be in 1.7
09:55	mikerod	I guess with fold the combine-fn can sort of do things that involve the reducing being "done"
09:55	puredanger	transducers really is a work in progress. there are several more things to be done.
09:56	Bronsa	cool
09:56	puredanger	in both functionality and performance
09:56	Bronsa	transducers are probably the most exciting enhancements in clojure in some time, for me
09:56	mikerod	1.7 looks promising
09:58	puredanger	http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1499 and http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1515 for example
09:59	Bronsa	apropos Range, I know you didn't write the patch but maybe you know -- why isn't it implemented with a deftype?
09:59	Bronsa	is it too early in the bootstrapping phase?
09:59	Bronsa	oh wait it's written in the ticket's description. nvm
09:59	puredanger	:)
10:00	puredanger	there's actually some not-yet visible more work on that too. I expect Tim and I will be working on it some next week.
10:01	mpenet	1.7 is full of exciting stuff indeed
10:02	puredanger	and feature expressions continues to make progress - http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Feature+Expressions has been updated quite a bit lately
10:02	Bronsa	puredanger: can you push the magic button and update the dashboard? :P
10:02	puredanger	yeah
10:03	perplexa	hey, is there something that's cleaner than using (+ 0) to get a 0? :P
10:03	perplexa	((constantly 0)) seems also dirty
10:03	christian_stamm	,(*)
10:03	clojurebot	1
10:03	christian_stamm	,(+)
10:03	clojurebot	0
10:03	perplexa	christian_stamm: mmh ;/
10:03	perplexa	is there not something like (gimme 0)? :)
10:03	christian_stamm	,0
10:03	clojurebot	0
10:03	perplexa	i think i'll have to wrap it in a function ;p
10:04	clojurebot	"1.7.0-master-SNAPSHOT"
10:04	Bronsa	oh confluence supports daily updates via mail
10:04	mpenet	CLJ-1517 is very intriguing as well. I wonder what kind of impact this will have on various benchmarks and "real world" apps
10:04	Bronsa	that'll do
10:05	puredanger	Bronsa: I don't think any of that works. The thing that is broken is the "cron" aspect of Confluence so it never does the jobs its supposed to do. I suspect that includes sending email.
10:06	puredanger	mpenet: yeah, I'm looking forward to looking at that more. just haven't had time lately.
10:06	Bronsa	damn.
10:06	puredanger	you can try it :) I just have low hopes.
10:07	puredanger	Bronsa: the "Email Daily Reports" has Next Execution = 02-Mar-2014. Sounds useful.
10:07	Bronsa	hah
10:08	puredanger	if I get some time to mess with it I will. probably something that needs to be restarted somewhere.
10:09	puredanger	I notice that the system uptime points back to exactly that same day.
10:10	puredanger	I notice also that "System Favourite Character" is set to Chewbacca.
10:10	puredanger	so we've got that going for us
10:11	Bronsa	I'll take Chewbacca over a working system every day
10:11	clgv	btw: should Numbers.equiv for two longs not be replace by an intrinsic operation "=="? I dont see that in the decompiled class file
10:11	Bronsa	clgv: only if you use it as a test in a if expression
10:13	clgv	Bronsa: oh ok. intrinsincs are still mysterious to me...
10:14	clgv	Bronsa: is there a reason that is limited to if conditions?
10:17	Bronsa	clgv: the *cmp jvm bytecodes don't return a boolean, they return integer values that the various jumping bytecodes understand
10:18	clgv	Bronsa: ah interesting
10:18	hugod	Is there any side effect on a namespace when you do an unqualified require - one that is queryable using ns-* functions?
10:19	Bronsa	clgv: so the predicate intrinsics are defined as cmp+jmp and require 2 branches
10:19	justin_smith	"jumping bytecodes" makes me think of Mexican jumping beans.
10:20	Bronsa	clgv: also probably the JVM will inline those Numbers.equiv calls
10:21	stuartsierra	hugod: no
10:21	hugod	stuartsierra: it might be interesting to add one
10:22	hugod	as soon as :as or :refer is used, it becomes visible
10:22	stuartsierra	yes, it might
10:22	hugod	I could imagine adding a generated alias, for instance
10:23	stuartsierra	but nothing prevents you from using fully-qualified symbols for namespaces which happen to have been loaded elsewhere
10:23	stuartsierra	I.e., without deep analysis, you can't determine all dependencies of a namespace.e
10:23	hugod	right, and that becomes increasingly problematic when macros introduce them
10:24	stuartsierra	yep
10:24	stuartsierra	Price of having macros.
10:25	hugod	well, you could make you macros require namespaces they inject into ns
10:27	hugod	fwiw, this came up because I got an error about cache protocols being unsatisfied when reloading some core.async code
10:28	clgv	Bronsa: thx
10:33	gfredericks	puredanger: s/alpha1/alpha2/ in the first line of your clojure-dev email
10:33	puredanger	you get the prize! I always leave in one typo.
10:35	mdrogalis	Ha.
10:37	gfredericks	yaaaay
10:41	puredanger	gfredericks: here's your prize: () () () () () () ()
10:41	puredanger	I had some leftover
10:42	puredanger	Bronsa: I updated every schedule on the Confluence job page. no clue if that will help. Most likely it will just cause the whole thing to die when it tries to do more work. :)
10:43	gfredericks	,((comp count list) () () () () () () ())
10:43	clojurebot	7
10:43	mdrogalis	gfredericks: Wow, you got 7 of something. Fancy!
10:44	puredanger	(inc gfredericks)
10:44	lazybot	⇒ 89
10:44	puredanger	hey, lazybot is back! :)
10:47	clgv	yeah those two bots seem to have issues today
10:48	gfredericks	mdrogalis: http://xkcd.com/1417/
10:48	puredanger	nice
10:49	mdrogalis	Ha
10:54	csd_	Why does this function experience integer overflow under certain circumstances and how can I fix it? My understanding is that this is a result of the function not being truly lazy but I'm not clear on what in particular is causing this. http://pastebin.com/a4JuNbbv
10:54	csd_	The recursions are wrapped in concat which itself returns lazy-seq
10:55	justin_smith	saving up concat calls can blow the stack
10:55	justin_smith	but that would not be an integer overflow, it would be a stack overflow
10:55	puredanger	stuartsierra refers to that as a concat bomb
10:56	justin_smith	csd_: use (conj (first coll) ...) instead of (concat (list (first coll)) ...)
10:56	gfredericks	clojurebot: a concat bomb is (first (reduce concat (repeat 10000 [42])))
10:56	clojurebot	A nod, you know, is as good as a wink to a blind horse.
10:56	gfredericks	clojurebot: concat bomb is (first (reduce concat (repeat 10000 [42])))
10:56	justin_smith	csd_: oops, you need to swap the args for conj
10:56	clojurebot	A nod, you know, is as good as a wink to a blind horse.
10:56	gfredericks	~concat bomb
10:56	clojurebot	concat bomb is (first (reduce concat (repeat 10000 [42])))
10:57	TimMc	perplexa: identity
10:57	justin_smith	,(conj '(0) 1 2) ; csd_ can also work with your other instance of concat
10:57	clojurebot	(2 1 0)
10:58	puredanger	I think the new cat transducer may be another way to avoid it
10:58	justin_smith	puredanger: yeah, I think that could end up making concat somewhat obsolete, if I understand what it does properly
10:59	stuartsierra	`into` with vectors is another alternative
10:59	stuartsierra	non-lazy, of course
10:59	csd_	justin_smith: I was under the impression for some reason that `cons` was better for recusion than conj
11:00	perplexa	TimMc: thx
11:00	csd_	still getting integer overflow using conj
11:00	TimMc	$findfn 0 0
11:01	lazybot	[clojure.set/union clojure.set/intersection clojure.set/difference clojure.core/time clojure.core/dosync clojure.core/long clojure.core/short clojure.core/-' clojure.core/+ clojure.core/unchecked-negate clojure.core/* clojure.core/- clojure.core/doto clojure.core/unc... https://www.refheap.com/89853
11:01	justin_smith	csd_: are you sure it is integer overflow?
11:01	sg2002	Hello. Can somebody tell me whether it's possible to create method with java generics in it using proxy?
11:01	csd_	justin_smith: it's the last test of http://www.4clojure.com/problem/132
11:01	justin_smith	because in that case, it would not be in the code you shared - it's somewhere else
11:05	clgv	sg2002: no, that generic stuff is only java compiler magic
11:05	sg2002	Genclass solution works for me, but I don't really want a class... What I want is to be able to create a class like new ClassA<ClassB>() { public boolean match(ClassB obj) {}} with ClassA being an abstract class.
11:08	sg2002	Here: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/clojure/Xv1pKATfP0c/qmPdGT1LNKsJ it was suggested that something like (:gen-class :extends ^{:parameters [SomeItemType]} java.util.AbstractCollect)) works for genclass. Maybe there is a similar syntax for proxy?
11:09	sg2002	Also, is there a way to view java signature of objects created by proxy other than decompiling?
11:10	justin_smith	csd_: OK, the integer overflow is happening because the function is not lazy
11:10	justin_smith	csd_: I was confused because there is nothing in the code you first showed us that would cause an integer overflow, but in the 4clojure problem's context, by not being lazy, the first error you hit is an integer overflow
11:14	csd_	What's not lazy about it though? Concat is lazy and it doesn't seem like a concat bomb is happening. It's wrapped in lazy seq. I also replaced `rest` with `drop 1` to no effect
11:16	justin_smith	csd_: I just made a version that is actually lazy, care to see it?
11:16	justin_smith	(as in, passes the test and does not make the fib generator overflow)
11:17	csd_	id prefer to do it myself i just don't know what's causing the problem in the existing function
11:22	justin_smith	csd_: I actaully am not a lazy seq expert - I tend to fumble until things work when making things lazy. But there are some reliable ways to figure out if the thing you made is properly lazy (like calling (take 10 (f ... (range))))
11:24	csd_	ok thanks
11:24	tgkokk	How would I create a zipper with 1 as root and then (i.e. after the zip-vector call) add 2 and 3 as children? I've been trying for an hour but I've arrived to sub-par solutions (e.g. I can add 2 and 3 but then I can't add other children to 2 nor 3).
11:26	justin_smith	tgkokk: how are you adding to the zipper?
11:26	tgkokk	with z/insert-child and z/append-child
11:26	tgkokk	I intend to use it as a tree, but I'm not sure how that will work out.
11:27	PigDude	do you ever do this? defmulti with dispatch function that does not operate on args
11:27	justin_smith	PigDude: so each implementation of the multimethod can only do one thing?
11:27	CookedGryphon	How do I make emacs install a stable version of cider?! I've tried everything, including deleting all my packages and only enabling the stable melpa, but it's still finding the broken snapshot from somewhere
11:27	PigDude	and instead returns some atom value, for instance. so that the code user can configure something globally and not need to pass this value to each mm call. convenience at the expense of flexibility
11:28	PigDude	CookedGryphon: you use vim
11:28	TimMc	CookedGryphon: There's a stable version of cider?
11:28	justin_smith	PigDude: don't add a global atom to your library
11:29	CookedGryphon	TimMc: well 0.7.0 as opposed to 0.8.0-SNAPSHOT
11:29	justin_smith	TimMc: 0.7.0 was intended to be stable
11:29	justin_smith	TimMc: I don't know how stable it actually is, but that was the intention
11:29	PigDude	justin_smith: this is not my library, it is some database functions that need to use a configured data source. things are greatly simplified if code does not need to pass in the type of data source
11:29	TimMc	One of these days I should try it again.
11:29	PigDude	justin_smith: if this is not the right way to do it, i'm curious how others would go about it
11:29	TimMc	justin_smith: Oh, stable as in Debian. :-P
11:30	CookedGryphon	Cider is actually working pretty nicely nowadays, it's emacs package management that's letting me down
11:30	PigDude	justin_smith: so, (db/do-something) should use the correct store, which would already have been set up in -main. so, there is no store-specific config involved, just need to know which backend is used
11:30	justin_smith	PigDude: if it's for an app and not a library, then sure, make a wrapper that elides the db argument and supplies your globally configured db config
11:31	justin_smith	PigDude: the problem is libraries that create a global config
11:31	csd_	justin_smith: figured it out. it was the reference to `count` breaking things.
11:32	justin_smith	csd_: I was able to eliminate count and still get the error
11:32	PigDude	justin_smith: ok, and would that wrapper be the sort of multimethod i'm using right now, or something else?
11:32	justin_smith	csd_: but maybe I had broken something else in the process :P
11:33	justin_smith	PigDude: this seems a weird way to use multimethods - I would make a few wrapper functions that access your config, c.j.jdbc is not a huge lib
11:33	technomancy	CookedGryphon: I'm using el-get
11:33	PigDude	nothing to do with jdbc, but "wrapper functions" is unclear to me. what does "make a few wrapper functions" mean?
11:33	technomancy	bonus: you can install packages over HTTPS instead of insane unencrypted executable transmission
11:34	Bronsa	puredanger: I'm reading the updated wiki page on feature expressions, regarding "Reading Unreadable Things" that shouldn't be a problem as we already have default-data-reader-fn -- the feature expression reader just needs to bind that to (constantly nil) before reading the next form
11:34	PigDude	justin_smith: let's say you've got :breadbox and :refrigerator and you want to store things in one or the other automatically, so (food/save "eggs") would use the right store. what might that look like if you're not using MMs?
11:34	justin_smith	PigDude: OK, the reference to db threw me off :) a wrapper function is one that takes one fewer args than the target function, and supplies a default arg (plus the others) to the target
11:35	justin_smith	PigDude: OK, so based on the type of the arg you want to dispatch - this is a reasonable place to use a multimethod, sure
11:35	PigDude	justin_smith: right now I have (defmulti save (fn [& _] (get-store-...))), (defmethod save :refrigerator [name] ...)
11:35	PigDude	(equivalent)
11:36	justin_smith	but there you aren't doing any dispatch by value?
11:36	PigDude	in that case :refrigerator might be some atom value
11:36	PigDude	(global)
11:37	PigDude	the dispatch is on that value
11:38	PigDude	this might be clearer https://www.refheap.com/86f595d58b359a6056c198d4a
11:39	justin_smith	but this is an abuse of defmulti, because you aren't dispatching on args at all, you are just picking up a global config
11:39	PigDude	how many antipatterns in that paste? :)
11:39	PigDude	yep, wondering what's preferrable so that method definers and callers don't have to be aware of it
11:39	justin_smith	csd_: I figured out my issue: using conj instead of cons made it non-lazy TIL
11:41	justin_smith	PigDude: make a function that has all the same args as the one you want to call, except for the db-config arg. Then supply the atom for that arg, passing all others unchanged
11:41	PigDude	so double the number of functions
11:42	justin_smith	hrm - wait
11:42	justin_smith	sorry
11:42	PigDude	it seemed if i took the wrapper fn approach, injecting the global, then i double the number of my functions, is why i went w/ MM at first
11:42	justin_smith	so these multis are dispatching on their args - they get the value with that key from the config
11:43	justin_smith	didn't you say previously that the multis were ignoring the arg?
11:43	PigDude	these multis don't really dispatch on their arguments at all, they just pull that atom value
11:43	PigDude	so neither method definer nor caller are aware of the backend config source
11:43	justin_smith	never mind, I need coffee
11:44	PigDude	that explains that, i wrote this on my first cup of coffee ;)
11:44	justin_smith	and I still think one small wrapper per function using the global config is actually simpler than the other contortions you would end up with
11:44	PigDude	hm, ok
11:44	PigDude	clearly the thing to do is to encapsulate that in a macro and do (defdbmethod) ;)
11:45	PigDude	then i'm a clojure ninja
11:45	justin_smith	it would make it easier :) for each function supplied to defdbmethod, you make a new one that takes one fewer args and supplies your config
11:52	technomancy	oh wait
11:52	technomancy	el-get pulls in a broken cider
11:52	technomancy	so while I still advise it in general, I can't recommend it in this particular case
11:53	justin_smith	technomancy: in general, my heuristic neural net wetware is drawing very strong connections between the "cider" and "broken" nodes
11:54	technomancy	justin_smith: in the past I avoided this by installing from marmalade. then I found out marmalade doesn't have SSL.
11:54	technomancy	so I guess I'm gonna check it out from git and do a manual install
11:54	technomancy	of version 0.6.0
11:54	CookedGryphon	:(
11:57	technomancy	oh, you can use el-get to install old versions
11:57	technomancy	\m/
11:58	danneu	justin_smith: i am not a person. i am a t-800 cybernetic organism. a learning computer.
11:58	technomancy	just add :branch "0.6.0" in the cider recipe
11:59	justin_smith	technomancy: nice to know about that
12:00	technomancy	yeah, I can't recommend package.el in good conscience at this point
12:44	danneu	i'd like to use https://github.com/yogthos/markdown-clj for user input but disallow arbitrary html. for example, i want it to parse <http://google.com> but escape <h1>Hello</h1>.
12:44	danneu	is there a simple solution?
12:50	justin_smith	danneu: clj or cljs?
12:51	danneu	justin_smith: clj
12:51	danneu	im rendering the template on the server and doing (md/md-to-html-string (:text post))
12:51	justin_smith	you could potentially use enlive on the output of md-to-html-string, altering non anchor markup?
12:52	danneu	justin_smith: haha, yeah - that's my last resort. hopefully java/clj has a markdown implementation that works as i describe (which is how the `markdown` npm module works)
12:54	danneu	this is the kind of thing that makes the http://standardmarkdown.com/ project exciting for me
12:54	hiredman	enlive's emit* seems to stack overflow pretty easily, and you can't pass enlive's datastructure to clojure.xml/emit because enlive parses comments as {:type :comment ...} (totally different from any other nodes)
12:58	justin_smith	hiredman: oh, I've never seen that, good to know
12:58	justin_smith	the stack overflow part that is, never even tried using the c.x/emit with enlive
13:01	danneu	i finally moved from hiccup to selmer. i realize it was kinda masochistic to use twitter bootstrap with hiccup (i.e. massive class pollution)
13:01	justin_smith	𝓣𝓱𝓮 𝓶𝓸𝓻𝓮 𝔂𝓸𝓾 𝓴𝓷𝓸𝔀
13:01	danneu	sometimes you just want to copy and paste html and be done with it...
13:02	danneu	and rest assured that html is escaped ^_^
13:03	danneu	it's kinda like that time someone registered on my node.js site with the name "__proto__" and i had some logic that used usernames as object keys
13:03	justin_smith	wow
13:04	danneu	hard knocks man
13:18	xicubed	danneu: I am a CLJ 9000 computer. I became functional - well I’ve always been functional… My instructor was Mr. Hickey. He taught me to sing a song in Harmonikit…
13:18	tuft	hello clojuresphere
13:31	danneu	what's the best way to wrap a thread-unsafe function `.doSomething` to force synchronous execution across threads? my naive solution is (defn do-something [x] (swap! result (fn [_] (.doSomething x))))
13:31	justin_smith	danneu: swap! does not lock, it retries
13:31	hiredman	that is terrible
13:31	danneu	haha
13:31	danneu	naive, guys!
13:31	danneu	naive!!
13:32	justin_smith	danneu: an agent is synchronous though
13:32	danneu	justin_smith: ah thanks. so i just immediately deref
13:32	hiredman	agents are asynchronous
13:33	hiredman	danneu: if you must ensure serial execution use a lock
13:33	justin_smith	hiredman: I mean they block until the previous alteration has run, rather than retrying
13:33	technomancy	Clojure Fact: "agent" is short for "asynchronous gentleman"
13:34	hiredman	justin_smith: they don't block, they queue actions
13:34	justin_smith	hiredman: sorry, yeah, block was the wrong term to use there, my bad
13:34	hiredman	send can block, but the blocking behaviour depends on the number of cpu cores
13:34	hiredman	send-off doesn't
13:37	danneu	would this do the job? (def thing (Thing.)) (def do-something [x] (locking thing (.doSomething thing x)))
13:39	hiredman	Thing can just be Object, sure
13:40	hiredman	I like (locking #'do-something (.doSomething thing x)) which would lock on the var object holding the function
13:51	danneu	when a java constructor looks like Thing(int options) and provides a list of available option ints, how do you generally enable multiple options? xor the ints together?
13:52	llasram	danneu: bit-wise or (not xor)
13:52	danneu	wow
13:53	danneu	no wonder clojurists yak shave so much
13:55	dbasch	danneu: I don’t follow. What does that have to do with clojure?
13:57	AimHere	Yak shaving is a jargon term, originating from Ren and Stimpy cartoons, referring to a complex series of tasks where your current task bears apparently no relation to the end goal
13:59	dbasch	AimHere: I think probably everyone here knows what yak shaving is, what I don’t follow is why danneu said what he said given the context of a Java constructor
13:59	danneu	dbasch: i guess people with lower level experience are used to that
14:00	danneu	(A \| B \| C)
14:00	danneu	Thing(A \| B \| C)
14:00	danneu	if (options & A) ...
14:00	dbasch	danneu: that’s the old C way of doing things, which some people carrier over to Java but has little to do with Clojure
14:01	danneu	that makes sense
14:01	dbasch	in C (or assembly) you typically defined flags and or’ed them together as needed
14:01	dbasch	and and’ed to check if set in a register / variable
14:01	technomancy	I've only seen that style in java code written by someone who has never written java before.
14:02	danneu	my noobness is leaking :(
14:02	technomancy	never mind that I've never written java before either
14:02	dbasch	in Java you have more idiomatic things such as Enums
14:04	dbasch	or Properties
14:05	TimMc	danneu: When you interact with that sort of interface from Java, you still have to do bit operations on numbers...
14:06	tuft	bit masking was magical to me when i first started reading code, heh
14:08	dgaffney	Hey everyone - quick question: I'm sending in a data package via RestClient in ruby and seeing something different print out on the route in clojure - any idea why this data blob is getting all malformed immediately upon arrival? https://gist.github.com/DGaffney/79f60f8beb3e5e9a1bbc
14:08	tuft	i guess in clojure it's just keywords instead of enums?
14:10	tuft	dgaffney: can you see what's going on the wire?
14:11	dgaffney	I am very familiar with restclient and can assure its being sent as it is supposed to on that end.
14:11	dgaffney	tuft ^
14:12	tuft	dgaffney: what does just plain (println params) show?
14:13	dgaffney	sorry, tuft
14:14	dgaffney	my computer has this awful kernel panic bug that kills the machine every once in a while. Did you reply to that q?
14:14	tuft	ack!
14:14	tuft	dgaffney: what does just plain (println params) show?
14:15	dgaffney	hold
14:16	dgaffney	{:attributes {:value wee, :for something_else}, :label Peat Bakke, :id peat}
14:16	dgaffney	:\|:\|:\|
14:17	tuft	ah hm
14:17	tuft	sorry, i'm stabbing in the dark a bit. hopefully i'm not giving you the impression i know anything =)
14:17	ghadishayban	hiredman: rather like your reduce idea for java.jdbc
14:18	llasram	tuft, dgaffney: You never want to `println` data-structures. `prn` is you want the `read`-able representation of some Clojure data
14:18	hiredman	in abstract I think everyone does, but there is no code for it yet which is where we can really get down to bikeshedding
14:18	dgaffney	rgr, llasram - you know what the deal is there anyway?
14:19	danneu	dgaffney: are you using ring-json middleware to parse the json?
14:19	dgaffney	{:attributes {:value "wee", :for "something_else"}, :label "Peat Bakke", :id "peat"} < prn output
14:19	tuft	llasram: ah indeed. all my logging is prn lately -- what was the point of "human readable" logs again?
14:19	llasram	dgaffney: It looks like the Ruby side is encoding the `attributes` array via repeated use of the query parameter
14:19	dgaffney	[ring.adapter.jetty :as jetty] may be the offender?
14:19	llasram	dgaffney: While the Clojure side is taking the last value
14:19	dgaffney	danneu ^
14:21	llasram	dgaffney: Are you using the `ring.middleware.params/wrap-params` middleware?
14:21	llasram	Oh, it's a POST
14:21	llasram	hmmmmm
14:22	llasram	Same deal though, just with form parameters instead of query parameters
14:22	dgaffney	no, llasram
14:22	dgaffney	I am not using that
14:23	dgaffney	trying via curl now
14:23	llasram	dgaffney: Then maybe try it :-) I'm pretty sure that's what's happening, that whatever middleware is parsing the form parameters is keeping only the last
14:24	llasram	Oh, wait. JSON? nm. I don't actually know what's going on
14:25	justin_smith	with any luck there is a switch to get a sequence from a repeated key, or at least get the raw input and do your own parsing - failing either of those you could replace or rewrite the body parsing middleware I guess
14:25	justin_smith	"A valid JSON data representation won't duplicate keys in the same nesting level."
14:26	dgaffney	A bit confused with that sentence, justin_smith
14:26	justin_smith	the one I quoted, or before that?
14:27	dgaffney	both :(
14:27	dgaffney	nah, i get it now
14:27	justin_smith	so, do I understand correctly that you are getting json in the request body, and it has repeated keys?
14:27	dgaffney	I just don't understand why I would not get a literal translation of the data package I sent in
14:28	dgaffney	Two maps in a list, both with identical keys.
14:28	dgaffney	(still learning vernacular, may be using wrong names)
14:28	llasram	dgaffney: Can you `tcpdump` the request, see exactly what RestClient is sending?
14:28	justin_smith	dgaffney: so something like [{:a 0} {:a 0}] and you only get one of those maps?
14:29	dgaffney	yes
14:29	dgaffney	I get {:a 0} back
14:30	dgaffney	The representation of the thing in clojure would be very similar to {:attributes [{:a 0}, {:a 10}]}
14:30	dgaffney	I can't tcpdump well enough to get it to punch out what you're looking for
14:31	samflores	are you using ring.middleware.json/wrap-json-params to parse the json?
14:32	dgaffney	negative, samflores
14:34	samflores	what are you using to parse the json?
14:35	_yocapybara_	hey guys, total noob here - I'm trying to require jdbc.types but get told jdbc/types.clj isn't on my classpath despite org.clojure/java.jdbc in my leiningen dependencies - where's the best first place to look?
14:35	dgaffney	I am not familiar enough with libraries to know yet, but here's the list: https://gist.github.com/DGaffney/134ddc2626d737c727fc
14:35	samflores	cheshire
14:35	samflores	:D
14:35	dgaffney	cheshire mayhaps? I think that's the relevant library
14:35	dgaffney	yeah
14:36	danneu	RestClient.get("http://localhost:3000/lol", {:body => {:id => "peat", :label => "Peat Bakke", :attributes => [{:for => "attribute_name", :value => 1}, {:for => "something_else", :value => "wee"}]}})
14:36	danneu	wrong window
14:36	dgaffney	I don't even see where encoding is happening - its happening before the routes?
14:36	hiredman	_yocapybara_: what version of java.jdbc?
14:37	samflores	try feedind (cheshire.core/parse-string "") with the string directly in a REPL
14:37	samflores	ouch
14:37	llasram	dgaffney: I don't think at this point we have enough information to know what's going on. You have some middleware which is doing the decoding. But we don't know exactly what the middleware is even getting
14:37	llasram	Well, until danneu finishes figuring out exactly what RestClient is sending :-)
14:37	hiredman	_yocapybara_: http://clojure.github.io/java.jdbc/ doesn't show a types namespace
14:37	dgaffney	samflores: nil
14:37	_yocapybara_	hiredman: I've put 0.3.5 in lein
14:37	_yocapybara_	hiredman: aaah
14:38	_yocapybara_	that will teach me to follow old blog posts blindly :) thanks!
14:38	_yocapybara_	totally explains it
14:38	samflores	yeah, the sample I gave you will return nil. you need to put your json string there
14:38	hiredman	~blogs
14:38	clojurebot	blogs are never to be trusted
14:39	dgaffney	https://gist.github.com/anonymous/cfb946576feaf91f50d9
14:39	_yocapybara_	hiredman haha
14:39	samflores	it seems cheshire know how to properly parse json :D
14:40	danneu	i cant figure out how to set the body in restclient
14:40	dgaffney	Here, here's my whole core.clj https://gist.github.com/DGaffney/919600dc05a00fc6e883 - I don't know where the middleware is being applied...
14:40	danneu	sends everything as params or headers
14:41	dgaffney	it may just not be applied at all?
14:41	samflores	handler/site
14:42	danneu	you want to send your {stuff}.to_json as the body of the request with content_type: :json.
14:42	dgaffney	how do you modify it? I assume setting cheshire explicitly would resolve this?
14:44	samflores	actually (handler/site) wraps your requests with several middlewares. so you handler will receive it already parsed (wrongly)
14:44	danneu	dgaffney: try RestClient.post("http://localhost:3000/lol", {:id => "peat", :label => "Peat Bakke", :attributes => [{:for => "attribute_name", :value => 1}, {:for => "something_else", :value => "wee"}]}.to_json, :content_type => :json)
14:44	dgaffney	I have
14:45	dgaffney	comes through as {}
14:45	samflores	replace handler/site with handler/api
14:45	samflores	http://weavejester.github.io/compojure/compojure.handler.html#var-site
14:46	danneu	neither of those include wrap-json-params https://github.com/ring-clojure/ring-json
14:46	danneu	api is just a subset of site
14:47	samflores	yeah, I know
14:47	dgaffney	no dice replacing handler/site with handler/api
14:48	dgaffney	it returns identical output
14:48	danneu	dgaffney: check out that link i dropped. then add (-> app handler/site ring.middleware.json/wrap-json-params)
14:49	danneu	add [ring/ring-json "0.3.1"] to project.clj
14:50	samflores	danneu, I've used wrap-json-params some time ago... but I believe without it the handler should receive the raw (unparsed) string, don't?
14:50	samflores	can't remember
14:50	llasram	danneu: Yeah, but dgaffney is printing out only the middleware-parsed :params
14:51	llasram	so they'll only see anything it if something parses the JSON
14:51	danneu	wrap-json-params will parse a request's json body string into a map and expose it in (:params req)
14:51	danneu	if the request has a json content-type
14:51	llasram	danneu: Er, yeah, sorry -- my comment was meant for samflores
14:52	llasram	danneu: I think you're on the right track :-)
14:52	dgaffney	updated core - https://gist.github.com/DGaffney/76a95097b7ef402f5c6f
14:52	dgaffney	no dice.
14:53	danneu	dgaffney: are you still using your original snippet
14:53	dgaffney	was a bit confused on the mixed syntax for use
14:53	dgaffney	This is a new snippet
14:53	dgaffney	would you like me to stick to a single?
14:54	danneu	i mean, what's your restclient commandn look like
14:54	samflores	got it, llasram & danneu
14:55	dgaffney	RestClient.post("http://0.0.0.0:8080/v1/node/create.json", {:id => "peat", :label => "Peat Bakke", :attributes => [{:for => "attribute_name", :value => 1}, {:for => "something_else", :value => "wee"}]})
14:55	dbasch	dgaffney: you need to remove the handler/site
14:55	danneu	dgaffney: change it to this
14:55	danneu	https://gist.github.com/danneu/056234ad4b167a4f376e
14:56	danneu	you need to add content_type: :json
14:56	danneu	that way the middleware knows that the body of the requst (string) needs to be parsed into json
14:57	danneu	i also had to add .to_json to the end of the params hash arg
14:57	dgaffney	That doesn't work for me still :(
14:57	dgaffney	I need to leave the house now
14:57	dgaffney	its too late.
14:58	dgaffney	oh well.
14:58	dgaffney	blerghhhh - I'll talk to you guys later
15:00	danneu	dgaffney: oh, they seem to be available in (:json-params req)
15:00	dgaffney	what does?
15:01	danneu	the parsed json on the clojure side
15:01	danneu	easier to debug this kind of thing with (clojure.pprint/pprint request) in your route
15:02	danneu	(POST "/test" request (clojure.pprint/pprint request))
15:03	dgaffney	https://gist.github.com/anonymous/da4cf0dfa047f692effc
15:04	dgaffney	https://gist.github.com/anonymous/05deea2c3bb8253aba8f < full req
15:04	danneu	:content_type => :json needs to be in your restclient
15:05	danneu	if you look at the headers in your request gist, it has x-www-form-urlencoded
15:05	danneu	which is what restclient's POST defaults to
15:06	danneu	this all works for me using this RestClient command https://gist.github.com/danneu/056234ad4b167a4f376e
15:06	dgaffney	{:ssl-client-cert nil,
15:06	dgaffney	:remote-addr "127.0.0.1",
15:06	dgaffney	:scheme :http,
15:06	dgaffney	:query-params {},
15:06	dgaffney	:session {},
15:06	dgaffney	:form-params {},
15:06	dgaffney	:multipart-params {},
15:06	dgaffney	:request-method :post,
15:06	dgaffney	:json-params
15:06	dgaffney	{"id" "peat",
15:06	dgaffney	"label" "Peat Bakke",
15:06	danneu	8^D
15:06	dgaffney	"attributes"
15:06	dgaffney	[{"for" "attribute_name", "value" 1}
15:06	dgaffney	{"for" "something_else", "value" "wee"}]},
15:06	dgaffney	:query-string nil,
15:06	danneu	there ya go
15:06	dgaffney	:route-params {},
15:06	dgaffney	:content-type "application/json",
15:06	dgaffney	:cookies {},
15:06	dgaffney	:uri "/test",
15:06	dgaffney	:server-name "0.0.0.0",
15:06	dgaffney	:params
15:06	dgaffney	{:id "peat",
15:06	dgaffney	:label "Peat Bakke",
15:06	dgaffney	:attributes {:for "something_else", :value "wee"}},
15:06	dgaffney	:headers
15:06	dgaffney	{"accept-encoding" "gzip, deflate",
15:06	dgaffney	"user-agent" "Ruby",
15:06	dgaffney	"content-type" "application/json",
15:06	danneu	at least it's not a clojure stacktrace
15:07	dgaffney	"content-length" "123",
15:07	dgaffney	"accept" "/; q=0.5, application/xml",
15:07	llasram	:-)
15:07	dgaffney	"host" "0.0.0.0:8080"},
15:07	dgaffney	:content-length 123,
15:07	dgaffney	:server-port 8080,
15:07	danneu	we'd be here a while
15:07	dgaffney	:character-encoding nil,
15:07	dgaffney	:body #<HttpInput org.eclipse.jetty.server.HttpInput@773ba8d6>,
15:07	dgaffney	:flash nil}
15:07	dgaffney	JESUS
15:07	dgaffney	sorry
15:07	dgaffney	sorry.
15:07	dgaffney	hahahaha
15:07	dgaffney	well, when you set content type its fine
15:07	dgaffney	butttt - this stack still kicks it to the handler all weird
15:07	dgaffney	so is :json-params something I can access?
15:07	danneu	yeah
15:08	dgaffney	can you throw a sample over? - these env level things are always a bit hard to wrap around the first time through the gate
15:08	danneu	i dont use compojure's bindings. i just always bind the entire request: (GET "/" request (println (:json-params request))
15:09	ghadishayban	puredanger: the varargs comp tweak committed today is interesting. specific rationale?
15:09	ghadishayban	puredanger: moar faster?
15:09	puredanger	dunno, no conversation about it
15:11	Bronsa	ghadishayban: looks like it should be
15:11	Bronsa	ghadishayban: the previous version did the looping each time the function returned by `comp` run, this version does it at the `comp` call site
15:11	Bronsa	if I'm reading it correctly
15:12	justin_smith	dgaffney: yeah, you should be able to access (:json-params request) within your handler
15:12	justin_smith	danneu: the bindings in compojure are just generic clojure destructuring
15:13	justin_smith	danneu: a decent intro http://blog.jayfields.com/2010/07/clojure-destructuring.html
15:14	amalloy	Bronsa: doesn't the new comp have a stackoverflow issue if you pass it a bunch of functions?
15:15	amalloy	ie, ((apply comp (repeat 10000 inc)) 1) should blow up
15:15	danneu	justin_smith: they do more than just that
15:15	justin_smith	,((apply comp (repeat 10000 inc)) 1)
15:15	clojurebot	10001
15:15	justin_smith	,clojure-version
15:15	clojurebot	{:interim true, :major 1, :minor 7, :incremental 0, :qualifier "master"}
15:15	danneu	dgaffney: https://gist.github.com/danneu/dce2ec9e46362875c014
15:15	justin_smith	danneu: like what?
15:16	danneu	justin_smith: (GET "/:user-id" [user-id] ...)
15:16	llasram	https://github.com/weavejester/compojure/wiki/Destructuring-Syntax
15:16	justin_smith	danneu: OK, that is kind of magic, was not aware of that bit of magic
15:17	danneu	i mean, it's not the end of the world. i just like the consistency of always having a req object.
15:17	danneu	it's also more obvious to compojure noobs
15:17	justin_smith	{a :with-a x :x :as request}
15:18	danneu	yeah [user-id :as req]
15:18	danneu	dgaffney: btw i switched out wrap-json-params for wrap-json-body which is prob what you want.
15:18	danneu	my gist should work for you
15:20	Bronsa`	amalloy: yeah it looks like it does but does anybody really comp 1e5 fns?
15:26	hiredman	well, deep comps became much more likely given transducers, but I dunno about 1e5
15:27	dgaffney	All good!
15:27	dgaffney	Ok, only 1.5 hours behind schedule.
15:27	dgaffney	whatevs, thanks so much guys.
15:29	_2_Chopin4453	fucking gel
15:30	stuartsierra	At a guess, the `comp` change may allow better JVM inlining.
15:31	_2_Chopin4453	shit and have sex
15:31	stuartsierra	The prior version of `comp` was looping over a list of functions, rather than compiling a completely new function.
15:32	_2_Chopin4453	dam it
15:32	turbofail	troll detected
15:38	scheafer	hi- i've got a question about the definition of ClojureScript equality and Javascript objects. In particular, I'm (= (goog.date.Date. 2000 1 1) (goog.date.Date. 2000 1 1)) returns false but (.equals (goog.date.Date. 2000 1 1) (goog.date.Date. 2000 1 1)) returns true. that's pretty unexpected. is there a reason for this?
15:38	_2_Chopin4453	sex have it
15:39	falafel	Is there an official documentation from transducers yet?
15:39	danneu	markov chain gathering entropy)
15:40	hiredman	scheafer: = may default to object identity
15:40	hiredman	scheafer: for things it knows are immutable objects it may compare values
15:41	hiredman	scheafer: I dunno, but it seems like a good guess
15:42	ananna	Hi I'd like a recommendation for an introductory tutorial that goes into how I can create a simple web app using Clojure. I've done most of SICP, so I have some theoretical understanding and I hope to refine it by studying Fogg's book, but I want to hit the ground running. Any recommendations on what I can use? I've found: http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/intro-clojure-web
15:42	scheafer	hiredman: it seems like it would be useful to have an equality function which switches between core/= and .equals based on the argument types. i'm surprised that this sort of thing hasn't come up before and isn't incorporated into core
15:43	joobus	ananna: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVd4ow-ZcX0
15:43	justin_smith	scheafer: doesn't = already use .equals, depending on the argument type?
15:44	scheafer	justin_smith: not from what i've seen from the source
15:44	ananna	joobus: Something written? I don't do visual things well.
15:44	hiredman	scheafer: it likely has, and was thought about, and this was arrived upon
15:45	justin_smith	scheafer: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/Util.java#L33 this is called by =
15:45	scheafer	hiredman: yep. so it makes me think that either it's there and i dont know about it or i'm way off base with what i'm trying to do :)
15:45	joobus	ananna: I'm a noob. I've been working through this: http://clojurekoans.com/
15:45	joobus	ananna: but it isn't a web app
15:45	joobus	ananna: just exercises in clojure
15:45	justin_smith	scheafer: I assume you did not look very far, it's called directly by =
15:46	scheafer	justin_smith: i think that's the clojure code, not clojurescript
15:46	turbofail	i think scheafer is talking about cljs
15:46	hiredman	scheafer: goog.date.Date is mutable (it has setters to set values) so comparing it as a value is a bad idea
15:46	justin_smith	scheafer: oh, I had the wrong context, sorry
15:46	ananna	joobus: I've seen it and it really is generally helpful, but I guess I'm just looking for something I can do to make a small toy project and experiment with it as I build stuff
15:46	turbofail	but that said in cljs there's a protocol IEquiv
15:46	hiredman	scheafer: you could say two dates are equal, some could mutate one, then suddenly they aren't equal
15:47	turbofail	in which you can define how equality works for that type
15:47	dbasch	ananna: how about https://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/clojure-web-application
15:47	ananna	dbasch: That's what I'm looking for, thank you.
15:47	scheafer	hiredman: agreed. but clojure & java have the same problem and = delegates to .equals for java objects. i know clojurescript isn't intended to be identical to clojure but i assumed the equality semantics would be consistent
15:48	scheafer	turbofail: ah ha. i thought there would be a protocol approach to this problem but i coudln't find it easily. are the protocols doc'd somewhere? i must have missed them
15:48	hiredman	scheafer: is it a little more complicated, just delegates to .equals
15:49	turbofail	https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/blob/master/src/cljs/cljs/core.cljs#L301
15:49	turbofail	dunno about any docs
15:50	scheafer	i see where my investigation failed. i looked at the clojurescript source for = and found that it used -equiv internally. i just assumed that -equiv was an implementation detail and not related to a protocol
15:50	hiredman	regardless, there is an easy answer, stop trying to use a universal equality operator
15:50	hiredman	(defn date= [a b] ...)
15:50	scheafer	hiredman: yes, writing code would be much easier if i just stopped trying to write code ;)
15:51	scheafer	turbofail: thanks for the pointer. i'll extend IEquiv over goog Date and get the desired behavior
15:55	Bronsa	puredanger: the changelog says that vswap! is a function..
15:56	puredanger	It seemed far more awkward to be precise in that sentence.
15:57	Bronsa	puredanger: you're still in time to make it a function so that the changelog will be true :P
15:59	puredanger	pick your battles man :)
15:59	stuartsierra	http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1209 is my new campaign
16:00	Bronsa	stuartsierra: that seems like a good idea.. until somebody puts a large or infinite sequence in the ex-info
16:01	stuartsierra	yeah...
16:01	stuartsierra	We need a "safe-print"
16:02	jeffterrell	stuartsierra: I like it. Both the CLJ-1209 and the safe-print.
16:02	stuartsierra	Which is probably Godel.
16:02	Bronsa	stuartsierra: maybe binding print-length and print-level to a safe value (say 10) in print-throwable?
16:03	stuartsierra	That's a start, at least.
16:13	hiredman	stuartsierra: there are issues with head holding there
16:13	hiredman	slingshot would capture the env and throw it in its exceptions
16:14	hiredman	it is problematic
16:14	hiredman	oh, I guess not for the printing, I assumed 1209 was the "capture lexical scope in asserts" or whatever
16:15	stuartsierra	yeah, if you threw it, you're already holding it. I just want to print it, the way ExceptionInfo.toString does.
16:16	stompyj	I’ll raise your lexical scope and see you a lexical closure
16:26	numberten	can you :as bind a destructured vector?
16:27	TimMc	Try it and see.
16:27	numberten	i did :(
16:28	bounb	,(let [[x y z :as vec] [1 2 3]] vec)
16:28	clojurebot	[1 2 3]
16:28	numberten	ah
16:28	numberten	silly me, I didn't put the :as in the []. thanks :)
16:28	bounb	np. from one newbie to another
16:29	numberten	:)
16:30	amalloy	hey, it looks like rich removed flatmap in favor of a lower-arity mapcat after all
16:39	mikerod	amalloy: apparently the 1-arity mapcat didn't work anyways
16:39	mikerod	,(mapcat identity)
16:39	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: clojure.core$map$fn__4338>
16:41	mikerod	This is due to mapcat
16:41	mikerod	using apply on the colls without checking
16:41	mikerod	`(apply map colls)`
16:42	mikerod	Seems like an obviously broken thing. a) I'm surprised this was the case currently. b) given it being broken, looks like making the 1-arity of mapcat meaningful was an obvious thing to do
16:53	amalloy	mikerod: well of course it didn't. that's why it was suggested to use the one-arity mapcat instead of introducing flatmap
16:54	amalloy	rich originally introduced flatmap because mapcat already had a one-arity definition, i guess not noticing that the behavior of that definition is just "throw an exception in all cases"
16:56	mikerod	amalloy: yeah, that's the interesting part :P
16:58	puredanger	amalloy: I have learned that "rich didn't notice" is never a betting position
17:01	amalloy	puredanger: i recall hearing that the reason (mapcat f) wasn't the original definition was because mapcat didn't have an arity available for shortening. it turns out i actually heard this from you, and from context i believed you were telling me that this was rich's actual reason, rather than the reason you'd inferred
17:02	mikerod	Everyone overlooks things sometimes
17:02	mikerod	:P
17:02	puredanger	I'd say that was part of the reason from a conversation I don't fully remember
17:03	amalloy	to see the specific conversation, search for "flatmap" in http://logs.lazybot.org/irc.freenode.net/%23clojure/2014-08-06.txt
17:03	puredanger	I remember my conversation with you. I don't remember the full conversation from Rich.
17:04	puredanger	I am (always) an imperfect translator
17:05	amalloy	well, now the conversation is there for the reference of anyone who doesn't remember it or wasn't there
17:05	puredanger	I believe the other aspect is the semantics of cat vs concat
17:05	hiredman	puredanger: if only you had some stone tablets up on that mount
17:06	llasram	(inc hiredman)
17:06	lazybot	⇒ 54
17:06	puredanger	I think the introduction of the cat transducer (whose semantics changed a bit before commit) was key
17:07	puredanger	allowing mapcat to just be a transducer of (comp (map f) cat)
17:07	technomancy	hehe
17:08	technomancy	"What's this? Everyone using pull requests while I was gone? smashes tablets"
17:08	hiredman	technomancy: lol
17:43	SagiCZ1	is there any channel like "friendly physics" ? just got yelled at by some physicist over at #physics xD
17:43	wkelly	lol
17:44	amalloy	now i'm curious what the atmosphere in #physics is like
17:44	SagiCZ1	pretty shitty.. if you are stupid like me
17:44	amalloy	answer: about 1 bar, amirite?
17:44	arrdem	I'd expect it's a frictionless vacuum...
17:46	hiredman	knowing physicists about 1 bar too few
17:47	SagiCZ1	amalloy: oh i just got the joke...... see im this slow
17:48	holo	I just asked at #haskell how to disable those commas in lists cause they are causing my a headache, and all i got was silence :(
17:50	arrdem	holo: page 11 of the Haskell 98 spec. lists have commas.
17:50	holo	my goodness
17:51	amalloy	you kinda need commas in any language that doesn't have sexprs
17:52	SagiCZ1	sexprs.. kinky
17:52	SagiCZ1	it means "sex-tit" in my language..
17:53	holo	amalloy if they have some other use for [], maybe use other kind of bracket. hey for 10 items it gets 9 commas!! insane
17:54	amalloy	holo: so uh...here's a list for you, how many elements does it have? [id id id id id]
17:54	SagiCZ1	19?
17:55	arrdem	SagiCZ1: 1
17:55	holo	amalloy, 5. i know it's a trick though hehe
17:55	amalloy	arrdem: well, 1 in the current implementation. my point was if they took his change the answer would be "somewhere between 1 and 5"
17:55	arrdem	amalloy: yep
17:55	SagiCZ1	,#{:id :id :id :id :id}
17:55	finishingmove	Quick questions guys: what web framework to use if I were to start working on an app right now, as a Clojure beginner? I know about Compojure but I don't know if something new came to existence since I fiddled with Clojure last
17:55	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Duplicate key: :id>
17:57	finishingmove	I'm looking for something like a micro-framework, with good documentation
17:57	scottj	finishingmove: compojure is still the most popular starting point.
17:57	holo	finishingmove there's alot of hype around Om for single page apps, but you'll need to use ring/compojure anyway also
17:57	mischov	finishingmove: Just start with compojure.
17:58	mischov	finishingmove: It's got the documentation.
17:58	holo	amalloy how come it's 1..5 items?
17:58	amalloy	holo: because it could be [id, id, id, id, id], or [(id id), (id (id id))], or...
17:59	amalloy	spaces are for function application
17:59	finishingmove	compojure it is then, thanks for the tip guys :)
18:01	holo	amalloy oh yes on the spot. just forgot i was using this ML syntax thing :o thanks . now i understand their silence
18:02	mischov	holo: Oh Clojure how I love you so....
18:02	holo	mischov, i'm beginning to love haskell too. i may become polygamist
18:04	mischov	holo: I keep trying to love Haskell, but I always end up running away crying from the frustration of never getting anything done. Clojure is always there to rock me gently and tell me it's okay.
18:05	technomancy	"It's got documentation" <- high praise =)
18:05	bja	can I tell leningen to add :exclusions [org.clojure/clojure] to everything except the clojure I have specified as a dependency?
18:05	technomancy	bja: you can have :exclusions in the top level of defproject that do that
18:05	technomancy	but I can't think of a good reason to
18:06	holo	mischov, wow.. i hope i'm not disappointed
18:06	bja	will that also exclude an explicit named dependency? ala (defprojec ... :exclusions [org.clojure/clojure] :dependencies [org.clojure/clojure "1.5.1"])
18:07	technomancy	yes, but excluding a dependency in itself won't do anything iirc
18:07	mischov	technomancy: Well I actually prefer other things to Compojure but all the tutorials and such are for it so I can't in good faith recommend people to start elsewhere.
18:07	holo	clojure has technomancy ← high praise
18:07	technomancy	bja: why are you looking for this?
18:07	mischov	holo: As long as you're not me you'll be fine.
18:07	bja	I made the mistake of asking lein deps :tree given that I'm AOT'ing stuff for storm
18:08	amalloy	technomancy: it's the only real way to run on a fork of clojure, if that's what you want to do
18:08	technomancy	amalloy: oh, true
18:08	technomancy	bja: apart from that it should be only necessary if your deps specify version ranges, but that case is hopefully very rare
18:23	danneu	mischov: how's gate coming?
18:25	mischov	danneu: Not bad, actually. Switched up arg coercion.. it's much nicer. Also fixed some other things to take away surprises.
18:26	mischov	danneu: It works REALLY well with Component. I add routes to components and then make the router depend on those components and it automatically gets and joins their routes.
18:27	mischov	danneu: I need to get an example of that up.
18:28	danneu	param coercion is nice. i saw https://github.com/Prismatic/fnhouse doing that too
18:28	danneu	saves a lot of boilerplate
18:30	mischov	I had it previously but I borrowed prismatic/core.typed's style for it. Looks much nicer. Works nicer too.
18:30	mischov	https://github.com/mischov/gate#handler-and-defhandler
18:38	danneu	mischov: what's driving the development/direction of gate? do you use it on anything for yourself?
18:40	mischov	danneu: Yea, I use it for all my web projects. I've been using it recently on the backend for Om/Reagent which is what drove my recent change to improve how *splats work.
18:44	SagiCZ1	can i somehow combine assoc and assoc-in? lets say i want to alter some first level keys and some nested keys as well in one call
18:46	arrdem	&(= (assoc {} :foo 3) (assoc-in {} [:foo] 3))
18:46	lazybot	⇒ true
18:46	Jaood	SagiCZ1: assoc-in can do both
18:47	scottj	perhaps he means how assoc can take multiple k/v's but assoc-in doesn't.
18:47	SagiCZ1	i guess?
18:47	SagiCZ1	can i do (assoc-in m [:a :b] :value [:c] :another-value)
18:48	mischov	(comp #(assoc-in % ...) #(assoc % ...))
18:48	mischov	:P
18:48	arrdem	http://grimoire.arrdem.com/1.6.0/clojure.core/assoc-in/
18:48	arrdem	no
18:49	mischov	Probably wouldn't be too hard to write a function to do it, though.
18:49	clojurebot	It's greek to me.
18:50	SagiCZ1	alright nevermind.. its ok
18:50	ben_vulpes	would it be bad form to move https://github.com/xeqi/peridot/blob/master/project.clj#L13 into the :dev dependencies so that I can run tests from emacs?
18:54	gfredericks	ben_vulpes: I think that's what technomancy recommends; I do it.
18:55	ben_vulpes	gfredericks: should i duplicate the entries or just move them into :dev?
18:56	ben_vulpes	technomancy's stuff seems to not have much in :test...
18:57	technomancy	:test is for stuff which you want during `lein test` only
18:57	technomancy	which is ... basically nothing
18:57	ben_vulpes	i want all my test stuff available in my emacs repl, but i'm a novice at all the things and so am almost bound to make bad decisions unbounded
18:59	technomancy	I kind of want a big ol project spider too
18:59	technomancy	anyone looking for a learning project?
19:00	ben_vulpes	what are you thinking about?
19:04	TimMc	What's this about spiders?
19:04	Fare	anyone interested in pair programming?
19:05	justin_smith	ben_vulpes: "dunno, clojure stuffs"
19:06	TimMc	Fare: On what? (Over what medium?)
19:06	ben_vulpes	justin_smith: lol
19:06	Fare	is there a place to find a pair programmer for clojure?
19:07	TimMc	I probably shouldn't due to RSI, but I'm curious...
19:07	Fare	my pure python dialect compiler for clojure + whatever the pair programmer wants.
19:07	Fare	Google Hangout and screen
19:07	technomancy	ben_vulpes: I was implying spidering github for project.clj files would be a good learning project
19:08	arrdem	technomancy: I think aysylu already has a project that does that..
19:09	mischov	SagiCZ1: https://www.refheap.com/89871
19:09	technomancy	oh yeah?
19:09	arrdem	technomancy: she mentioned it near the end of her clojure/west talk on Loom IIRC
19:10	technomancy	Fare: have you seen talky.io? might be nicer than G+ for simple ad-hoc things.
19:10	justin_smith	mischov: excellent example code
19:10	SagiCZ1	is "2d" some sort of literal in java?
19:10	technomancy	arrdem: hm; and I guess clojuresphere probably has this too
19:10	arrdem	(inc mischov)
19:10	lazybot	⇒ 1
19:11	SagiCZ1	mischov: thank you!
19:11	mischov	SagiCZ1: My pleasure.
19:11	SagiCZ1	,2d
19:11	clojurebot	#<NumberFormatException java.lang.NumberFormatException: Invalid number: 2d>
19:11	arrdem	mischov: mind if I slap that in detritus?
19:11	Fare	technomancy, I admit I haven't — it looks good, but is it worth switching from Hangout?
19:12	mischov	arrdem: Not at all.
19:12	Fare	TimMc: I can do the typing, if you have RSI
19:12	SagiCZ1	mischov: btw whats up with the name? does "ate" have some special meaning/
19:12	technomancy	Fare: IMO it's better if you have two or three participants only
19:12	SagiCZ1	?
19:12	Fare	is there a way to get local variable bindings in a java / clojure stack trace?
19:12	technomancy	Fare: just because there's no login and the URL is memorable
19:12	Fare	technomancy, that's OK: only two needed for pair programming
19:13	mischov	SagiCZ1: assassinate ... associnate
19:13	technomancy	also: less reliance on google
19:13	TimMc	++
19:13	mischov	SagiCZ1: Just a lousy joke.
19:14	TimMc	Fare: A compiler for a subset of Python?
19:14	SagiCZ1	mischov: ok thats what i thought :]
19:14	dbasch	technomancy Fare: Screenhero is pretty good, but after two weeks you have to pay
19:14	Fare	I'm thinking "variant" rather than "subset".
19:14	Fare	So far, the syntax is the same, but the semantics is different, due to purity.
19:15	Fare	i.e. x = y binds a new x that shadows the previous
19:15	Fare	YET, it's visible in the rest of the current function's body.
19:15	Fare	which can be... interesting.
19:17	Jaood	is there an emacs refheap theme?
19:17	Fare	not implemented yet: grouping successive def ... statements into a letfn
19:19	Fare	I'm not sure how to best do it in presence of decorators:
19:19	arrdem	typed clojure: no really that can return nil
19:20	Fare	should I group things into a letfn, then do the decoration, or have any decorator break letfn continuity, and lose any mutual-recursion?
19:24	TimMc	Hmm, it doesn't really inspire me. I'm leery at this point of creating new languages. :-P
19:24	scottj	Jaood: apparently refheap's theme is based on tomorrow night bright, which is available in emacs.
19:28	SagiCZ1	can i somehow kill a thread from repl to which i lost a reference? :D
19:30	hiredman	yes
19:31	hiredman	http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/lang/Thread.html
19:31	SagiCZ1	hiredman: thank you
19:42	Fare	TimMc: it's more interesting for the compilation passes than for the language itself
19:42	Fare	the syntax part is solved
19:43	Fare	right now, I'm struggling with wrapping each statement in the "least suitable monad that can express all its effects"
20:13	bounb	so i added a dep (data.json) in my project.clj, ran lein deps but i get this "CompilerException java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.data.json" when i try and require data.json
20:13	bounb	can anyone give me a hint?
20:14	beamso	what does the project.clj and the :require look like on that namespace (feel free to use refheap.com to paste something into)
20:15	bounb	sure hold on
20:16	bounb	https://www.refheap.com/89878
20:17	bounb	uh
20:18	bounb	just noticed one uses :require and the other require
20:18	beamso	yeah, i saw that but i was going to try both
20:18	bounb	blame the lein docs for calling require directly
20:19	bounb	,(doc require)
20:19	clojurebot	"([& args]); Loads libs, skipping any that are already loaded. Each argument is either a libspec that identifies a lib, a prefix list that identifies multiple libs whose names share a common prefix, or a flag that modifies how all the identified libs are loaded. Use :require in the ns macro in preference to calling this directly. Libs A 'lib' is a named set of resources in classpath whose contents...
20:19	bounb	beamso: i tried anyway, makes no difference as expected
20:19	beamso	the first require is something that you'd use at a repl, the second require is the same format that you'd see at the top of a namespace
20:20	beamso	the "(require '[clojure.data.json :as json])" way worked for me
20:20	bounb	ohhh
20:20	bounb	yeah i just got that ha
20:21	bounb	yeah it's cos i copied it outta an ns form
20:21	bounb	cheers
20:30	bounb	now i have a new problem https://www.refheap.com/89879
20:31	beamso	try removing the ":" from before "require"
20:32	bounb	huh ok that works. why
20:32	beamso	the ":" is for the top of a namespace, not for the repl
20:32	beamso	or the namespace declaration, i should say
20:33	SegFaultAX	bounb: What he means is the form (:require ...) is calling the :require keyword as a function.
20:34	bounb	ah yes i see because the ns macro has this (:require ) reference
20:34	bounb	yeah, and that keyword doesn't exist outside of the ns macro
20:34	SegFaultAX	And keywords will try and look themselves up in whatever you pass to them as their first argument when called as a function
20:34	bounb	yeah i got that
20:34	SegFaultAX	Which is how eg (:foo {:foo "abc"}) works
20:34	bounb	ya
20:35	SegFaultAX	Just filling out the explanation.
20:36	bounb	and if :foo isn't in your assoc, it's just nil, not an error
20:38	bounb	but (reduce ...) returns nil as well ;)
21:14	jeffterrell	Man, I'm loving the test-refresh lein plugin. Finally, a solution to getting ripped out of my flow for 60s JVM startup times!
21:14	jeffterrell	https://github.com/jakemcc/lein-test-refresh
21:17	xulfer	Can't you just use cider since it's already running a jvm?
21:18	xulfer	It does look nice
21:21	technomancy	or grenchman
21:28	jeffterrell	I had difficulties with clojure-test-mode in emacs, if that's what you mean by cider. I'm natively a vim guy. :-)
21:28	jeffterrell	I haven't tried grenchman.
21:30	jeffterrell	Looks like grenchman could work, but I'd have to figure out how to use in a test-runner kind of way. Is that about right?
21:30	jeffterrell	Does look nice in general, though, and something to keep in mind.
21:30	xulfer	jeffterrell: Ahh I see. I have no idea why I assumed emacs.
21:31	xulfer	I too am a vim guy really. I just tend to use emacs on anything with a rep;. Old habits and what not.
21:31	jeffterrell	Yeah, I do like the emacs ability to integrate with a REPL.
21:33	jeffterrell	technomancy: Seeing that there's a way to run lein tasks in grench, that narrows the gap. But the other thing test-refresh does is a dependency-graph-based refresh as necessary whenever files change. So it's pretty convenient.
21:40	technomancy	jeffterrell: I see; yeah that's handy
21:41	technomancy	still, I wish the dependency-graph tracking were separate from the test runner
21:41	jeffterrell	It is, actually. clojure.tools.namespace.repl/refresh
21:41	technomancy	oh right; cool
21:42	jeffterrell	Grenchman's good to know about too. I'd consider us even, except that, well, you kinda wrote stuff that I use every day. :-)
21:55	jeffterrell	I love Clojure's concision. Witness:
21:55	jeffterrell	(get #{:aborted :finished :failed} job-status :finished)
21:57	technomancy	yeah, I'm always skeptical of lein plugins that exist just to run in-project code I guess
21:58	technomancy	like ... why have a plugin? why not just have a :main entry point?
21:58	technomancy	but whatever, it's cool
22:02	jeffterrell	Yeah, I could see that. Although one could argue that `lein test` just runs in-project code. :-) But yeah, I know what you mean.
22:03	xulfer	Hm I'm curious. What causes lein to search for a main function?
22:04	xulfer	I created a lib the other day using the default lein template. Changed nothing in the project.clj. No gen-class. Still warns about no main when it installs.
22:04	xulfer	Not a big deal, I just hate warnings on installs.
22:07	jeffterrell	xulfer: I think you have to have a :main value in your project map that points to a namespace-qualified function.
22:07	jeffterrell	Maybe the default lein template doesn't have that?
22:07	xulfer	Hmm
22:07	jeffterrell	https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/master/sample.project.clj#L196
22:08	xulfer	but why would I need that if it is just a library?
22:08	gfredericks	xulfer: you shouldn't for a library; what do you mean "when it installs"?
22:08	xulfer	so I should just define some stub function? i'll do that to make it go away
22:08	xulfer	gfredericks: On another project when I do 'lein install' and pull my lib in as a dependency.
22:08	xeqi	ben_vulpes: moving those are fine. That was from when I was concerned about dev/test seperation. I've since relented and usually just put things in :dev now
22:09	gfredericks	xulfer: so you have libA and appB and you don't see this warning (about libA) until you're messing with appB?
22:10	xulfer	i don't want to see the warning at all
22:10	xulfer	i don't understand why there should be a warning about a lack of a main function in libA
22:10	xulfer	i don't get that warning from any other dep
22:10	gfredericks	there shouldn't, I'm just trying to make sure I understand what you're talking about
22:10	gfredericks	what makes you think it's referring to libA instead of appB?
22:10	xulfer	Yeah I understand. Yes that's what I mean.
22:11	xulfer	Because appB has a main, and it is explicit in warning about libA.
22:12	gfredericks	I've never seen a warning about main that referred to a library
22:12	xulfer	Yeah. I mean my guess is that somehow I'm doing something incorrect.
22:12	gfredericks	what's the exact wording?
22:12	xulfer	I'm just not sure what it is since my lein stuff is so minimal.
22:12	jeffterrell	xulfer: You get this warning when you run `lein install` in the libA directory? Or at some other point?
22:12	xulfer	no in another app that is pulling in libA
22:12	xulfer	one second let me force it to pull it in again.
22:15	xulfer	Warning: The Main-Class specified does not exist within the jar. It may not be executable as expected. A gen-class directive may be missing in the namespace which contains the main method.
22:16	gfredericks	aah ha
22:17	gfredericks	that is a different problem than the one we guessed you were having
22:17	xulfer	Oh sorry.
22:17	gfredericks	but closely related
22:17	xulfer	I would have been more verbose, but I had to wipe out my repo to produce that. :)
22:17	gfredericks	I haven't seen this but I imagine it means leiningen thinks your lib has a main class when it's compiling it
22:17	xeqi	that warning is about having a :main without having :gen-class within that namespace
22:18	gfredericks	but since you don't gen-class (and shouldn't) the class reference fails
22:18	gfredericks	xulfer: I think you don't want a :main entry at all in libA, right?
22:19	xulfer	i don't have a :main
22:19	xulfer	and no main function
22:19	gfredericks	you don't want either, but it's hard to see how this situation would happen if you don't have a :main
22:20	gfredericks	you're sure you never had one?
22:20	xulfer	I can show you actually. Don't be too critical. I'm learning and it's just a small convenience project.
22:20	xulfer	https://github.com/mbsmith/clj-systemtray
22:20	xulfer	but you can check out the project.clj, and core.clj there
22:20	gfredericks	that's the lib or the app?
22:20	xulfer	lib
22:20	xeqi	xulfer: is there a :main in appB/project.clj?
22:21	xulfer	Yes. Technically a -main
22:21	gfredericks	xulfer: did you use lein uberjar?
22:21	gfredericks	for the lib?
22:21	xulfer	but it's using the app template from lein
22:21	xulfer	gfredericks: No I don't believe so. It's getting the library via clojars.
22:21	xulfer	So whatever lein deploy clojars uses
22:22	xeqi	xulfer: the -main would be in the refered to namespace. Does that namespace have :gen-class in its namespace declaration?
22:24	xulfer	xeqi: Yes.
22:24	xulfer	But I don't think it's related to the app in question.
22:24	xulfer	Because the warning did not appear until yesterday when I added this library as a dependency.
22:25	xeqi	ah, you're running `lein install` in appB. that will create a normal jar, without the compiled/aot'd class because of ^:skip-aot in the project.clj
22:25	xeqi	I think you want to run `lein uberjar` in appB
22:25	xeqi	to create a runnable jar
22:26	gfredericks	I just pulled clj-systemtry from clojars and it seems to have an okay manifest
22:26	gfredericks	so I'm going with xeqi's theory
22:28	xeqi	`lein install` will create a normal jar + pom and add it to your local maven cache, which lets lein find it for other libraries. `lein uberjar` will create a jar with all of the required code inside it, which can be ran using `java -jar $jar-name`
22:28	xeqi	since its an app, I believe you want the latter
22:29	gfredericks	I've never heard of `install` for an app or `uberjar` for a library
22:31	xulfer	hm okay
22:31	xulfer	i'll try that
22:33	xeqi	xulfer: https://www.refheap.com/89886 as an example
22:35	technomancy	gfredericks: https://github.com/Seajure/odo
22:35	technomancy	^ works with `installed` apps
22:35	technomancy	well
22:35	technomancy	technically `deploy`ed
22:36	gfredericks	HUH.
22:36	gfredericks	okay now I've heard of it
22:36	gfredericks	it's still not normal though :P
22:36	technomancy	(also this may or may not be a ridiculous idea)
22:36	gfredericks	oh it is
22:36	technomancy	seajure hack night; what more need I say
22:37	gfredericks	I read the thing joe armstrong wrote and didn't really get it; the server only shape shifts once
22:37	gfredericks	can't think of why that's useful
22:37	gfredericks	is it not supposed to be?
22:37	technomancy	useful? that's already a lib.
22:37	gfredericks	oh dear.
22:38	gfredericks	technomancy: stramg lop?
22:39	technomancy	gfredericks: nein =(
22:40	xulfer	Thanks for the help guys
22:40	xulfer	I was under the impression uberjar was only for end deployment
22:40	gfredericks	technomancy: we'll I'll pretend you're there in your honor
22:40	technomancy	gfredericks: I'll be there "in spirit"
22:40	xeqi	xulfer: are you making an app that isn't for end deployment?
22:40	technomancy	which is code for "not"
22:41	xeqi	I consider that the diff between lib vs app
22:41	gfredericks	xeqi: it's for end deployment in spirit
22:41	xeqi	gfredericks: oh, the final end deployment
22:42	gfredericks	yes
22:42	xeqi	really gotta hope theres no bugs in that one
22:42	xeqi	... deadlock
22:58	xulfer	xeqi: It is, but when I'm just simply trying to make sure all of my reps are pulled in, and that my repo will work properly I've used 'lein install' in the past.
22:58	xulfer	I guess that isn't correct.
22:59	xeqi	ah, I use `lein test` for that. Though it won't check the final uberjar creation. Really `lein uberjar` is the only thing that does that I know of
23:02	Fare	anyone interested in pair programming a clojure-written compiler from a pure python dialect to clojure?
23:13	korqio_	`
23:30	danneu	i want mmcgrana in charge of my SEO campaign because i don't think i've ever ended up on github.com/ring-clojure on my first try
23:32	danneu	he must use fiverr campaigns to spam backlinks to github.com/mmcgrana/ring
23:32	Jaood	what happened to that guy? he started lots of clojure web stuff and then dissapeared
23:32	Jaood	dissapeared from clojure at least
23:33	danneu	maybe he's having some hammock time
23:33	technomancy	it was pretty weird. he got really into the product development side of things, and then into google go.
23:33	technomancy	which was surprising to me until I realized he never actually learned how the clojure repl worked.
23:34	technomancy	did all his coding in textmate and always restarted for every change, so of course it was super tedious to get anything done.
23:34	technomancy	I guess if that's your idea of programming then google go could actually look appealing.
23:34	Jaood	;)
23:35	Jaood	well yeah, looks like clojure wasn't his cup of tea
23:36	danneu	dude just moved on
23:38	Jaood	technomancy: looks like he love textmate to much to leave it, he created clojure syntax highlighting for textmate
23:39	Jaood	technomancy: does heroku uses Go heavily?
23:39	technomancy	Jaood: yes =(
23:40	Jaood	Ok, that could be one of the reasons :)
23:41	technomancy	I think the causality actually went the other way
23:41	Jaood	he brought Go to Heroku?
23:42	technomancy	he was one of the early adopters anyway
23:48	catern	wow what a dumbguy
23:57	danneu	not quite...