#clojure – 2014-07-08

2014-07-08

00:02	TEttinger	,(find-doc #"ns-")
00:02	clojurebot	-------------------------\nclojure.core/ns-aliases\n([ns])\n Returns a map of the aliases for the namespace.\n-------------------------\nclojure.core/ns-imports\n([ns])\n Returns a map of the import mappings for the namespace.\n-------------------------\nclojure.core/ns-interns\n([ns])\n Returns a map of the intern mappings for the namespace.\n-------------------------\nclojure.core/ns-map\n([n...
00:02	TEttinger	##(find-doc #"ns-")
00:02	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: find-doc in this context
00:02	TEttinger	hm
00:02	TEttinger	##(find-doc find-doc)
00:02	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: find-doc in this context
00:02	TEttinger	##(find-doc "find-doc")
00:02	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: find-doc in this context
00:02	TEttinger	what
00:02	Frozenlock	lol
00:02	TEttinger	,(find-doc "find-doc")
00:02	Frozenlock	of course :-p
00:02	clojurebot	-------------------------\nclojure.repl/find-doc\n([re-string-or-pattern])\n Prints documentation for any var whose documentation or name\n contains a match for re-string-or-pattern\n
00:03	TEttinger	##(clojure.repl/find-doc #"ns-")
00:03	lazybot	⇒ ------------------------- findfn.core/ns-set A set of namespaces where find-fn will look. ------------------------- clojure.main/main ([& args]) Usage: java -cp clojure.jar clojure.main [init-opt] [main-opt] [arg] With no options or args, runs an interacti... https://www.refheap.com/87959
00:03	TEttinger	well now you have the full link
00:04	TEttinger	lazybot may not include clojure.repl by default, but it does use refheap, and refheap is wonderful
00:04	Frozenlock	Pfff, I'm not going to type clojure.repl/find-doc
00:05	Frozenlock	How can a bot use refheap? What's the use case?
00:05	TEttinger	##(clojure.repl/find-doc #"clojure.core/ns-")
00:05	lazybot	⇒ nil
00:05	TEttinger	##(clojure.repl/find-doc #"clojure.core.ns-")
00:05	lazybot	⇒ nil
00:05	TEttinger	hm
00:06	TEttinger	,(doc "find-doc")
00:06	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Symbol>
00:06	TEttinger	,(doc find-doc)
00:06	clojurebot	"([re-string-or-pattern]); Prints documentation for any var whose documentation or name contains a match for re-string-or-pattern"
00:06	TEttinger	oh come on
00:06	TEttinger	then why do lazybot and clojurebot print different things
01:24	seancorfield	Is it my imagination or has this channel gotten a LOT quieter in the evenings than it used to be?
01:37	hellofunk	seancorfield it is likely your imagination.
01:44	seancorfield	hellofunk perhaps... but only two messages in an hour and change? used to be conversations all the time in the evenings...
01:44	Frozenlock	I have the same impression
01:44	Frozenlock	Summer, maybe?
01:48	devn	seancorfield: pay no mind
01:48	devn	seancorfield: everyone who used to peep late at night is now employed :)
01:49	Frozenlock	clojure ain't cool anymore
01:51	hellofunk	wow, it's loud in here. too much activity
01:57	seancorfield	devn you might have a good point there
01:57	seancorfield	i'm kind of a night owl so i'm always online
01:58	seancorfield	but it may be that many of the old guard are now doing Clojure all day and don't bother with IRC at night?
01:58	hellofunk	anyone who uses Om, is there any reason why I couldn't put the Om atom in a separate namespace? there's no reason it must be in the same namespace as the Om root, right?
01:58	seancorfield	hmm, can't think of a reason hellofunk
01:58	ttasterisco	hellofunk: right
01:58	cj3kim	hello
01:59	ttasterisco	plus you can have multiple roots
01:59	hellofunk	ok
01:59	cj3kim	Question.
01:59	seancorfield	cj3kim yay! a discussion!
01:59	cj3kim	I have some software written in clojure that I would like to expose as an API on my node js server. Is this possible?
02:00	hellofunk	from a performance question (and i'm using cljs) if you reset! an atom map but only one item changes, would this have similar performance as just swap! with an assoc? are reset! and swap! mainly syntactic tools, or do they affect performance as well?
02:01	cj3kim	Anything is possible, but would there be a lot of effort in comparison to writing the server in clojure?
02:02	seancorfield	cj3kim not quite sure i understand what you're asking - sounds like you want to call from node.js to clojure/java?
02:02	cj3kim	seancorfield: yes
02:02	cj3kim	I want to take data from a POST request in node and pass it onto a clojure process
02:02	cj3kim	in the background.
02:03	seancorfield	spinning up a web server in clojure is pretty easy tho'... do you just want to expose your clojure stuff as a REST API?
02:03	seancorfield	why use node.js?
02:04	Frozenlock	cj3kim: I'd keep the clojure stuff in its own server... less stuff to debug if something goes wrong.
02:04	Frozenlock	Frozenlock rule n.634: everything goes wrong.
02:04	seancorfield	yeah, exposing the Clojure stuff with its own REST API sounds simpler
02:04	cj3kim	hmmr, okay
02:05	cj3kim	thanks for the opinion :)
02:06	seancorfield	cj3kim the real question is probably more around how you'd handle responses and the async aspects of node.js in that context
02:07	cj3kim	seancorfield: I'm used to coding on Node.js, which is why the thought occurred.
02:07	Frozenlock	cj3kim: http://clojure-liberator.github.io/liberator/ makes thing even easier
02:08	cj3kim	Frozenlock: thank you
02:10	hellofunk	i'm guessing a reset! still takes advantage of persistent structures to minimize value changes so it would be similar overhead as a swap!
02:10	cj3kim	quick question, i'm doing a math heavy start-up with a friend. if necessary, could I pay one of you guys to refactor some areas of my code? ( I'm not the best at clojure)
02:16	Frozenlock	cj3kim: I'm sure you can find someone good with clojure/java math operations, but you would probably have a better luck in the americas-day-hours
02:23	mange	hellofunk: From what I understand reset! just changes the pointer inside the atom. It won't do anything magical if you've constructed an entirely separate object.
02:24	cj3kim	Frozenlock: Thanks. I will take that into account.
02:43	Frozenlock	seancorfield: Have you tried TokuMX http://www.tokutek.com/products/tokumx-for-mongodb ? (No question in particular, I'd just like your opinion if you have one)
02:44	seancorfield	Haven't looked at it Frozenlock
02:49	seancorfield	Frozenlock almost sounds too good to be true :) i'll have to take a look at that...
02:50	Frozenlock	seancorfield: Yeah, if it had geospacing I'd be all over it.
02:51	Frozenlock	Keep me posted on your findings :-p
02:52	seancorfield	Frozenlock we're already relying heavily on some MongoDB 2.4.x stuff so I don't know how compatible TokuMX would be...
02:53	seancorfield	but i'll try it out
03:31	ttasterisco	seanaway:
03:31	ttasterisco	hey, I think it's just your imagination https://github.com/ttasterisco/is-it-seancorfields-imagination-
03:50	evanmorgan	hello
04:18	sm0ke	how do i specify a classifier in lein?
04:19	sm0ke	i have 2 profiles and i want that when i do `lein with-profiles +pro1` it installs with a classifier prfo1
04:22	sm0ke	isnt there something like :classifier ?
04:26	otfrom	ANN: London Unconference on 24 July: Sign up here: https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/london-clojure-unconference-2014-tickets-5542965158
04:27	otfrom	and good morning
04:30	kap	hello guys, i want to write a simple client/server in clojure
04:30	kap	i am a super-beginner
04:31	kap	the client part fetches a json and stores to couchdb
04:31	kap	the server exposes a restful api
04:31	kap	i was thinking of using Liberator for the server side
04:32	kap	I was thinking of separating client (batch download and store)
04:32	kap	and server
04:33	kap	but i would like to share some memory between the two for quickly exposing freshly downloaded data from the client
04:33	kap	there will be two processes then
04:33	kap	is there a way to handle intra-processes data in clojure?
05:07	jonathanj	wouldn't it make sense to write the client and server as though they're on the same network (instead of the same computer)?
05:12	rurumate	how to wrap rabbitmq channel into core.async channel?
05:14	rurumate	this is what I have so far, but q-chan is read-only and closes after one message: https://www.refheap.com/87966
05:14	rurumate	is it possible to make q-chan an unlimited async channel that works "over the wire" ?
05:23	rurumate	*to make q-chan return an r/w async.channel that you can take! from and put! into, as well as use <! and >!, and which delegates to lb/publish and lc/subscribe
05:32	kap	@joanathanj and send json from server to client when i need to fetch fresh data without passing from the db?
05:33	rurumate	In order to get rid of a callback, it's common to return a new channel that will receive a value, i.e. it's supposed to be take!n from. Is is also possible to create / return a channel that "listens" on a put! ?
05:34	kap	@jonathanj and send json from server to client when i need to fetch fresh data without passing from the db?
05:35	jonathanj	kap: i'm not exactly sure what you're asking, but presumably you know how to write network software
05:36	kap	:) i was thinking of having client and server on the same machine and share some memory intra-process instead of intra-network ;)
05:36	kap	and wondering if there is a lib in clojure to do that...like osgi that can share memory between plugins
05:46	rurumate	oh I think I get it. just attach a taker on the channel before returning it
05:59	AeroNotix	hmm, clojure-mode doesn't seem to be highlighting properly any more. I updated it.
05:59	AeroNotix	anyone else see this?
07:17	hellofunk	AeroNotix haven't updated in a while
07:36	mbac	hey what's something that always trips up noob programmers. so far i've got tabs vs. spaces and merge conflicts.
07:36	AeroNotix	the fact that all development is basically shovelling shit from one toilet to another
07:36	borkdude	complexity
07:39	mbac	AeroNotix: too real
07:41	koreth__	Novices get way too hung up on programming language selection in my experience. It matters, but it is not the initial decision whose lack of answer should block one from thinking about any other aspect of the problem.
07:43	koreth__	(But maybe that's more abstract than what you wanted; not on the same level as tabs vs. spaces.)
07:46	wink	people ranting about languages if they haven't used more than 2
08:03	Glenjamin	mbac: mixing levels of abstraction within the same procedure
08:13	TimMc	mbac: The idea that all software is infinitely mutable, unlike hardware.
08:13	TimMc	("I'll just go and fix this" and then the sweater unravels.)
08:19	rurumate	AeroNotix: will clojure-mode highlight #_ comments correctly now?
08:20	AeroNotix	rurumate: didn't check
08:20	AeroNotix	rurumate: in what way? Doesn't seem to do anything right now
09:23	TimMc	OK, free project idea: Given two git commits, display a namespace diff graph that shows which namespaces have been deleted, edited, or added by decorating the lines and boxes. https://github.com/timmc/nephila would be a good starting point.
09:28	rurumate	AeroNotix: right, doesnt't do anything, it should be red like a comment no?
09:29	hyPiRion	TimMc: (merge nephila codeq) ?
09:29	rurumate	AeroNotix: counterclockwise highlights it like a ;; comment
09:29	AeroNotix	I dunno, I'm sure your colours are different but still -- it does nothing right now
09:29	rurumate	it _should_ do something
09:31	TimMc	hyPiRion: whoa
09:32	TimMc	hyPiRion: ...and then make a github web hook that generates the graph and uploads it as a comment to the pull request.
09:39	Glenjamin	is there a way to make clojure(script) throw away the tail of a list?
09:40	Glenjamin	at the mo i'm doing (-> xs (conj x) (take 1000))
09:40	ssideris	Glenjamin: butlast
09:40	ssideris	hm, sorry I don't think that's what you need
09:42	bacon1989	ping
09:53	TimMc	borkdude: PONG
09:53	TimMc	bah
09:53	TimMc	bacon1989: PONG
09:54	TimMc	borkdude: Sorry, tab-completion + moderate latency.
09:59	hellofunk	i have a bunch of key value pairs where i will often need to look up one based on the other, thus sometimes it is the key I want when I search for the value. is there a better way to do this than have 2 separate maps with the keys and values switched?
10:04	cursork	hellofunk: 2 maps might maybe work. Are you prepared for multiple keys being returned by a lookup on one value though?
10:07	hellofunk	cursork so actually in my scenario both the keys and the values will always be unique
10:08	hellofunk	cursork besides, if i was storying one map's values as another map's keys, i wouldn't have multiple values or multiple keys anyway, since you can't have two identical keys in a hash-map
10:10	borkdude	why is clojuredocs still based on clojure 1.3 and is there a better newer alternative?
10:10	Kneiva	any idea why lein repl fails to start under cljs project? error message is: Error: Could not find or load main class clojure.main
10:10	Kneiva	Exception in thread "Thread-4" clojure.lang.ExceptionInfo: Subprocess failed {:exit-code 1}
10:11	Kneiva	if I go to parent directory lein repl works as expected
10:13	koreth__	borkdude: I use the Clojure cheat sheet at http://clojure.org/cheatsheet -- it links directly to the official Clojure docs for stuff that was added after 1.3, but to ClojureDocs for older stuff.
10:14	ddellacosta	hellofunk: I would just use group-by val, then you can directly access the values as hashmap keys
10:14	ddellacosta	&(get (group-by val {:foo "foo" :bar "bar"}) "foo")
10:14	lazybot	⇒ [[:foo "foo"]]
10:14	bacon1989	question for you guys regarding InputStream, how would I pass into the InputStream.read(...) command? it's expecting a byte array as the first parameter, which appears to be passed by reference
10:14	bacon1989	which doesn't make sense in the java world, and even less sense in the clojure world
10:14	koreth__	There was an effort to rework ClojureDocs to make it more capable (and bring it up to date) but as far as I can tell that effort has been completely stalled out for quite a while now.
10:14	bacon1989	unless i'm supposed to use transients?
10:15	ddellacosta	bacon1989: slight digression but have you taken a look at clojure.java.io? https://clojure.github.io/clojure/clojure.java.io-api.html
10:17	TimMc	hellofunk: Google Guava has BiMap, but it's not persistent. (Might be immutable, at least...)
10:18	cursork	hellofunk: No problem. I've just seen people make naive hashmap-reversing functions and end up in trouble
10:19	bacon1989	ddellacosta: interesting, but this is essentially creating a Java InputStream
10:21	bacon1989	doesn't appear to be any clojure methods here that jump out at me, how do I get data out of my input stream?
10:23	bacon1989	this is frustrating to no end, every single reader tries to read a file line-by-line, what if I have a constant 5mb binary? there are no lines!
10:23	ToxicFrog	bacon1989: clurp?
10:23	ToxicFrog	slurp, rather?
10:23	bacon1989	you mean slurp?
10:23	bacon1989	same problem, I feel like the implementation uses line-seq
10:24	bacon1989	because it only reads the first 5000 chars
10:24	ToxicFrog	It does?
10:24	bacon1989	testing using a web browser produces the correct results
10:25	bacon1989	hmm.. maybe it doesn't
10:25	bacon1989	appears to create a stringbuilder, and .read into it
10:25	bacon1989	hmm...
10:25	ToxicFrog	huh
10:26	ToxicFrog	user=> (let [s (slurp "/tmp/8M")] (.length s))
10:26	ToxicFrog	1048576
10:26	ToxicFrog	That's not the same result you're seeing, but it's not even slightly correct either
10:26	bacon1989	strange
10:27	andyf	bacon1989: Use Java read methods that work on InputStream objects using Java interop expressions: http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/io/InputStream.html
10:27	ToxicFrog	Oh wait, no
10:27	ToxicFrog	I typoed the invocation of dd
10:27	ToxicFrog	user=> (let [s (slurp "/tmp/8M")] (.length s))
10:27	ToxicFrog	8388608
10:27	ToxicFrog	WFM
10:27	joegallo	heh, good ol' disk destroyer
10:28	andyf	koreth_: The effort to rewrite ClojureDocs in Clojure (rather than the original Ruby implementation) is active recently: https://github.com/zk/clojuredocs/commits/clj-rewrite
10:28	bacon1989	I have something like this ToxicFrog http://pastebin.com/qNWRbhM5
10:28	bacon1989	output is: 1551324 2649
10:29	andyf	borkdude: If you don't want to wait for ClojureDocs to update (assuming it will), you can also try Grimoire: http://www.arrdem.com/grimoire/ https://github.com/arrdem/grimoire
10:29	bacon1989	content-stream is an EOFSensorInputStream from the org.apache.comm.http class, etc
10:30	borkdude	andyf thanks
10:30	andyf	Grimoire is not as quick & simple to add/edit examples as ClojureDocs is, though.
10:30	bacon1989	is clojuredocs sortof set up like a wiki?
10:31	andyf	bacon1989: yes
10:31	andyf	bacon1989: but based on a custom implementation of its own, AFAIK, not some widely used wiki software
10:35	Bronsa	ouch clojuredocs still links to clojure contrib :(
10:35	sdegutis	i made a wiki that has updated clojure docs, and imported all clojuredocs.org examples to it
10:35	sdegutis	and updated it for clojure 1.5.1
10:35	sdegutis	and people were like "screw you" so i deleted it.
10:39	bacon1989	why does this have to cause me so much grief
10:41	sdegutis	:)
10:41	sdegutis	bacon1989: grief is for when someone close to you dies
10:41	sdegutis	bacon1989: github wikis are for when you have a project that needs extra room for user-editable docs
10:42	bacon1989	my inputstream is something close to me, he just won't do what he's supposed to do
10:42	bacon1989	I think I might have to put him down
10:42	bacon1989	like an old dog
10:42	andyf	bacon1989: Have you tried Java .read ?
10:42	andyf	with a specified buffer size?
10:44	bacon1989	andyf: does such a method exist? there appears to be only a .read(), and a .read(buf[]), which puts values into buf[]
10:44	bacon1989	which i have no idea how to implement in clojure, do I use transients?
10:45	bacon1989	slurp is implemented to .read()
10:45	bacon1989	it stops at the first negative input, as outlined in InputReader, is it getting a false negative?
10:47	pandeiro	i would like to use midje for e2e testing with webdriver as a standalone program (ie, testing an environment, not a particular project's code base) - is this possible? advisable?
10:47	pandeiro	i just tried to use it inside a -main function and got Exception in thread "main" java.lang.ExceptionInInitializerError
10:47	andyf	sorry, busy there for a bit
10:47	andyf	.read(buf[]) is what I meant
10:48	pandeiro	i'm thinking i must have failed to initialize midje in some way
10:48	andyf	(byte-array 50) create a byte[] with length 50
10:50	pandeiro	i found this from 2011: https://github.com/marick/Midje/issues/12
10:51	pandeiro	or maybe my issue is with aot (i am using the standard `lein new app` boilerplate) but i understood i will need that in order to work with an uberjar
10:54	pandeiro	hm, looks grim: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/23018826/clojure-midje-using-aot-compilation-with-tests-inside-source-fails-to-run
11:03	andyf	bacon1989: In case you are still looking for a working example, read this: https://gist.github.com/jafingerhut/1c61ec6b99a7656895e0
11:07	bacon1989	thanks andyf, i'll give this a shot
11:13	bacon1989	andyf same results
11:14	bacon1989	it still maxes out at 2600 bytes
11:18	andyf	bacon1989: You mean it prints out one line that shows it reading 2600 bytes, or it prints out many lines saying it read that many?
11:18	andyf	(assuming you left the debug println in there)
11:18	bacon1989	andyf: I changed it to a bufsize of 512, and it prints out several reads
11:19	bacon1989	Read 512 bytes
11:19	bacon1989	Read 512 bytes
11:19	bacon1989	Read 512 bytes
11:19	bacon1989	Read 512 bytes
11:19	andyf	All of them max size except the last one?
11:19	bacon1989	Read 512 bytes
11:19	bacon1989	Read 89 bytes
11:19	bacon1989	1551324 2648
11:19	bacon1989
11:19	bacon1989
11:19	andyf	What is the size of the file you are reading?
11:19	bacon1989	1551324
11:20	bacon1989	at least that's what the http-response says, but I know it's that big
11:20	andyf	no exception thrown?
11:20	bacon1989	nope
11:20	bacon1989	i feel like my client settings might have something to do with it, that's just a guess though
11:21	andyf	The InputStream is created from what?
11:21	bacon1989	it's created from the entity
11:21	ndaly	so I've been out of Java for a while, and now when I look around I keep seeing @stuff
11:21	ndaly	wondering what it meant, I did a quick search
11:21	ndaly	this reads like satire: http://docs.oracle.com/javase/1.5.0/docs/guide/language/annotations.html
11:21	bacon1989	andyf: http://pastebin.com/iC4zT9Ar
11:22	bacon1989	on line 7
11:22	bacon1989	this has worked just fine on every other call i've been making
11:23	bacon1989	but they've all been below the given length
11:23	bacon1989	I think I might start sending fake lengths, and see when the cutoff happes
11:23	bacon1989	*fake data of different lengths
11:25	andyf	I don't know what is going on there. I tested the code on some files on disk opened as InputStream, and it worked as expected. I would guess either the larger number is wrong, or the Java objects there are returning an InputStream that cuts off early for some buggy reason, but that is just guessing on my part.
11:28	bacon1989	yeah idk, it fails when I send a base64 Byte[2048]
11:28	bacon1989	this is rediculous
11:38	bacon1989	think I just figured it out!
11:38	bacon1989	http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6585191/string-that-came-as-http-response-cut-off-java-platform-android-3-0
11:39	bacon1989	haven't tried it yet, but I know i'm closing it partway through the request
11:41	bacon1989	that was it
11:42	bacon1989	ugh, what a pain in the butt
11:45	bacon1989	thanks for the help andyf, and ToxicFrog
12:00	TimMc	ndaly: How so?
12:17	Frozenlock	"If you operate a commercial Web site or online service that collects personally identifiable information through the Internet about individual consumers residing in California who use or visit your website, your Privacy Policy must be California Online Privacy Protection Act compliant." California jurisdiction: the world!
12:22	verma	is there something like clj->js for clojure that converts a clojure object to a java object ... e.g. a hashmap to java Map<>
12:23	sritchie	verma: you can just pass it to the map constructor, I believe?
12:23	verma	yeah, but I was wondering if there's something more flexible .. converts array to ArrayList e.g. as well
12:23	sritchie	verma: (java.util.HashMap. {“a” 1 “b” 2})
12:24	sritchie	verma: sounds like a pretty easy protocol to write
12:24	sritchie	I don’t think clojure has that, though, no
12:24	sritchie	verma: why would you want to do that?
12:24	sritchie	verma: the data structures conform to java interfaces
12:25	sritchie	verma: why program against the specific java data structures when you could just use the interface, and keep the code nice and abstract
12:25	verma	sritchie, I want to push java objects to firebase, for http://github.com/verma/pani
12:25	verma	sritchie, you're right, I haven't really tried pushing stuff directly, may be that'll just work :)
12:25	sritchie	yeah, give it a try
12:28	ndaly	TimMc: "Annotations do not directly affect program semantics, but they do affect the way programs are treated by tools and libraries, which can in turn affect the semantics of the running program."
12:29	ndaly	does it seem like a good idea to add something to a language that officially makes it so you can't tell what the code will do by just reading it?
12:29	TimMc	ndaly: Ah, yeah, that's a pretty good line.
12:29	Glenjamin	you mean like macros?
12:29	Glenjamin	:p
12:29	ndaly	Glenjamin: point taken :)
12:30	verma	sritchie, worked for maps :P trying other things
12:30	ndaly	Glenjamin: but annotations make me want to kill myself, and macros don't, so maybe I'm biased
12:31	gfredericks
12:31	gfredericks	has anybody worked on getting the new lein-release feature to create tags and/or gsub the README?
12:31	TimMc	ndaly: Actually, it changes the behavior of other code, not the marked code -- unless you're bringing in bytecode weaving and other freaky things.
12:32	ndaly	bytecode weaving sounds like dark magic
12:32	TimMc	It allows you to inject behaviors into the code. :-/
12:33	TimMc	ndaly: See https://code.google.com/p/gag/ for some horrifying examples.
12:34	TimMc	Oh, I guess that's bytecode instrumentation, which is maybe different?
12:35	Glenjamin	@Roulette is awesome
12:38	jcromartie	any tips on troubleshooting startup times?
12:38	jcromartie	sometimes it takes ages to start a REPL
12:38	TEttinger	drip?
12:38	jcromartie	sometimes not
12:39	TEttinger	$google clojure drip
12:39	lazybot	[Clojure · ninjudd/drip Wiki · GitHub] https://github.com/ninjudd/drip/wiki/Clojure
12:39	technomancy	clojurebot: faster?
12:39	clojurebot	It's greek to me.
12:39	technomancy	clojurebot: faster boot?
12:39	clojurebot	It's greek to me.
12:39	jcromartie	I don't want to work around a slow startup
12:39	jcromartie	I want to know why :)
12:39	TEttinger	Drip is a launcher for the Java Virtual Machine that provides much faster startup times than the java command. The drip script is intended to be a drop-in replacement for the java command, only faster.
12:39	jcromartie	I guess I could println in my namespaces
12:39	technomancy	clojurebot: faster boot is https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/wiki/Faster
12:39	clojurebot	Roger.
12:40	jcromartie	this is weird
12:40	jcromartie	first time, I get an OOM
12:40	jcromartie	then it works fine
12:40	TEttinger	jcromartie, the JVM needs to load 32 MB of "kernel" into RAM before it can do anything
12:40	jcromartie	starting from Cider
12:40	TEttinger	and that always takes time it seems
12:40	jcromartie	yeah, I am not talking about regular Clojure startup time
12:40	jcromartie	I'm familiar witht hat
12:41	Jaood	TEttinger: I don't think the problem is the JVM, it already starts up fast
12:41	jcromartie	this particular app is obscene
12:41	vince___	Hi, all. I'm teaching myself clojure, and I got stuck on the following (I think basic) thingy. Its about applying map on a HOF. Example
12:41	vince___	(map + [1 2 3] [4 5 6]) -> (5 7 9)
12:41	vince___	but... (??? + [[1 4] [2 5] [3 6]]) -> (5 7 9)
12:41	justin_smith	there is no hof there
12:41	vince___	which function to use for ???
12:41	lazybot	vince___: Yes, 100% for sure.
12:42	justin_smith	oh, I see
12:42	TEttinger	,(reduce + [[1 4] [2 5] [3 6]]) -> (5 7 9)
12:42	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentVector cannot be cast to java.lang.Number>
12:42	TEttinger	hm
12:42	jcromartie	(partial apply map)
12:42	justin_smith	,(map (partial apply +) [[1 4] [2 5] [3 6]])
12:42	clojurebot	(5 7 9)
12:42	jcromartie	,((partial apply map) + [[1 4] [2 5] [3 6]])
12:42	clojurebot	(6 15)
12:42	jcromartie	oops
12:43	jcromartie	oh I see
12:43	vince___	let me try
12:43	cbp	map #(reduce + %)
12:43	justin_smith	,(map #(apply + %) [[1 4] [2 5] [3 6]]) is better actually
12:43	clojurebot	(5 7 9)
12:44	justin_smith	cbp: apply + and reduce + do the same thing, but the former should be faster
12:44	vince___	(reduce + [[1 4] [2 5] [3 6]])
12:44	justin_smith	vince___: not quite
12:44	vince___	gives me ClassCastException clojure.lang.PersistentVector cannot be cast to java.lang.Number
12:45	vince___	the one with map and apply works!
12:45	vince___	next step is to figure out why it works, but I consider that as an assignment :)
12:45	justin_smith	,(map #(reduce + %) [[1 4] [2 5] [3 6]])
12:45	clojurebot	(5 7 9)
12:46	vince___	(map #(reduce + %) [[1 4] [2 5] [3 6]]) also work
12:46	vince___	thank you, justin_smith
12:46	justin_smith	vince___: if you look at the source for +, you will see why they both work :)
12:46	justin_smith	$source +
12:46	lazybot	+ is http://is.gd/zSqIg7
12:46	Bronsa	justin_smith: reduce is actually faster
12:47	justin_smith	Bronsa: oh, interesting
12:47	justin_smith	I guess because of the arity dispatch overhead?
12:47	Bronsa	proably, I never investigated though
12:47	justin_smith	$source apply
12:47	lazybot	apply is http://is.gd/ffhNFw
12:48	justin_smith	maybe the overhead of apply
12:49	bacon1989	question: how do I slice an java array in clojure?
12:49	Bronsa	justin_smith: sorry I misunnderstood what you said before, arity dispatch is negligible, it's definitely because of apply overhead
12:50	Bronsa	justin_smith: apply has to count the args
12:53	vince___	is (map (partial reduce +) [[1 4] [2 5] [3 6]]) exactly the same as (map #(reduce + %) [[1 4] [2 5] [3 6]]) ?
12:53	hellofunk	ddellacosta thanks for group-by suggestion
12:54	gfredericks	vince___: it has the same return value, yeah
12:54	Bronsa	vince___: partial has some overhead over #()
12:55	vince___	okay, thanks
12:55	gfredericks	stack traces can be slightly less helpful with point-free style
12:58	rurumate	ok this seems to work; it's the langohr "getting started" example, with a touch of component and async: https://www.refheap.com/87981
12:59	rurumate	not sure if doing it right
13:02	cespare	If you have (defrecord R [^String s]), if you have R in a macro, is there any way to get at the fact that s is type-hinted as a String?
13:02	Fare	wow, while reading the python grammar, I realized it has limited destructuring in its arguments, too
13:03	gfredericks	,(defrecord R [^String s])
13:03	clojurebot	sandbox.R
13:03	gfredericks	,(-> ->R meta :arglists)
13:03	clojurebot	nil
13:03	gfredericks	,(-> #'->R meta :arglists)
13:03	clojurebot	([s])
13:03	gfredericks	,(-> #'->R meta :arglists ffirst meta)
13:03	clojurebot	nil
13:03	cespare	exactly :)
13:03	gfredericks	cespare: looks bleak
13:03	gfredericks	,(->R 42)
13:03	clojurebot	#sandbox.R{:s 42}
13:04	gfredericks	that hint is just for interop in the record's body?
13:04	cespare	gfredericks: what does that mean?
13:04	Bronsa	,(defrecord X [^long x])
13:04	clojurebot	sandbox.X
13:04	Bronsa	,(X. "")
13:04	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to java.lang.Number>
13:04	Bronsa	I love how type hinting is not consistent at all
13:05	gfredericks	cespare: I'm wondering what you're using the type hint for
13:05	cespare	wait, that suggests that maybe I could use java reflection to get at the type maybe?
13:05	cespare	maybe maybe
13:05	cespare	heh
13:05	gfredericks	Bronsa: does non-primitive type hinting result in behavioral changes to non-interop code anywhere in clojure?
13:05	Bronsa	gfredericks: not that I'm aware
13:06	gfredericks	,((fn [^long x] ['inc x]) "a string")
13:06	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to java.lang.Number>
13:06	cespare	gfredericks: I have a fast record access macro so that (rget r :foo) will (a) raise a compile-time error if foo is not a field and (b) compile down to (.foo ^R r), which is the fastest kind of access
13:06	gfredericks	Bronsa: seems consistent to me then, at least keeping a primitives vs non-primitives distinction
13:06	cespare	gfredericks: I want to make a similar thing for nested records
13:07	gfredericks	cespare: ah ha.
13:07	cespare	I guess I can make my own defrecord wrapper macro that records more type information in metadata.
13:08	gfredericks	metadata on what though?
13:08	cespare	R?
13:08	gfredericks	that's a class
13:09	Bronsa	gfredericks: sure it's consistent between deftype and fn, not consistent between primitive/not-primitive hints though
13:09	gfredericks	Bronsa: yeah but that's kind of jvm style. primitives act differently from Objects
13:10	cespare	gfredericks: define an extra method on it?
13:10	cespare	like getBasis
13:10	cespare	i dunno.
13:10	Bronsa	cespare: you can use getBasis to retrieve the tag
13:10	cespare	Bronsa: but not the hinted type
13:10	gfredericks	,(.getBasis R)
13:10	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching field found: getBasis for class java.lang.Class>
13:10	Bronsa	(-> (R/getBasis) first meta)
13:10	Bronsa	,(-> (R/getBasis) first meta)
13:10	clojurebot	{:tag String}
13:10	gfredericks	magic!
13:10	gfredericks	,(class (R/getBasis))
13:10	clojurebot	clojure.lang.PersistentVector
13:11	cespare	Bronsa: hmm, thanks. I thought that was the first thing I tried.
13:12	cespare	how long does the state of clojurebot hang around?
13:12	gfredericks	~10 min
13:12	clojurebot	excusez-moi
13:13	cespare	,(def r (->R "hello"))
13:13	clojurebot	#'sandbox/r
13:13	Bronsa	lol.
13:13	gfredericks	clojurebot: 10 min is 0.6944 centidays
13:13	clojurebot	'Sea, mhuise.
13:13	Bronsa	,(set! warn-on-reflection true)
13:13	clojurebot	#<IllegalStateException java.lang.IllegalStateException: Can't change/establish root binding of: warn-on-reflection with set>
13:13	Bronsa	ff
13:13	cespare	Bronsa: ah, that's what I was gonna do.
13:13	Bronsa	,warn-on-reflection
13:13	clojurebot	false
13:13	technomancy	gfredericks: over half a kilosecond
13:13	Bronsa	weell
13:13	Bronsa	anyway http://sprunge.us/YQUW?clj this is funny
13:14	cespare	,(.startsWith (.s ^R r) "h")
13:14	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: r in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
13:14	cespare	ah, wiped?
13:14	gfredericks	technomancy: 19 microyears!
13:14	cespare	anyway, how come the field type hint doesn't come through?
13:14	Bronsa	cespare: all fields are compiled to Objects
13:15	Bronsa	except for fields with primitive type hints
13:15	cespare	Why?
13:15	clojurebot	cespare: because you can't handle the truth!
13:15	gfredericks	clojure is a big fan of Object
13:15	cespare	I'm getting that :\|
13:15	gfredericks	cespare: usually type hinting is just used for avoiding reflection
13:16	gfredericks	not for affecting other parts of the byte code
13:16	gfredericks	primitives being the major exception
13:17	Bronsa	gfredericks: I find it ridiculous that we have to pay the price of a checkcast for every interop call & can't improve type inference just because the compiler likes to compile everything as an Object
13:17	gfredericks	,(R/getFields)
13:17	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: No such namespace: R, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
13:17	gfredericks	,(.getFields R)
13:17	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: R in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
13:17	gfredericks	,(defrecord R [^String r])
13:17	clojurebot	sandbox.R
13:17	gfredericks	,(seq (.getFields R))
13:17	clojurebot	(#<Field public static final clojure.lang.Var sandbox.R.const__0> #<Field public static final clojure.lang.Var sandbox.R.const__1> #<Field public static final clojure.lang.Var sandbox.R.const__2> #<Field public static final clojure.lang.Var sandbox.R.const__3> #<Field public static final clojure.lang.Var sandbox.R.const__4> ...)
13:18	gfredericks	,(->> (.getFields R) (filter #(= "r" (.getName %))))
13:18	clojurebot	(#<Field public final java.lang.Object sandbox.R.r>)
13:18	gfredericks	Bronsa: that I cannot defend :)
13:18	silasdavis	I can extend an interface with a protocol, a protocol generates an interface, can I extend a protocol with another protocol?
13:22	gfredericks	silasdavis: I don't think so
13:23	silasdavis	does the interface generated have the same name as the protocol?
13:28	sm0ke	hurm
13:28	sm0ke	https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/issues/1589
13:29	rurumate	ok now also made a github, it's been a productive day https://github.com/methylene/langohr-component-async
13:29	sm0ke	regarding this one..how do i have deployed jars renamed with the classifier name to coexist?
13:30	technomancy	sm0ke: it looks like the docs for that are missing. probably hugod knows; iirc he added that.
13:30	silasdavis	gfredericks, looks like you can: same name as the protocol, i.e. given a protocol:
13:30	silasdavis	my.ns/Protocol, an interface: my.ns.Protocol.
13:31	sm0ke	technomancy: let me put the comment on issue as well
13:32	sm0ke	technomancy: do you think the default behaviour should be to append -<classifier-name> to jar file?
13:33	technomancy	sm0ke: I think that's how it works
13:33	technomancy	at this point you'd have to read the source of jar.clj
13:33	sm0ke	technomancy: ok so i can confirm this
13:34	sm0ke	putting :classifer "xyz" .. and grep xyz * in ~/.m2/.. shows classifier in the pom.xml
13:34	sm0ke	but the jar is always deployed with the same name
13:34	gfredericks	silasdavis: that's the interface though, not the protocol -- not everything that satisfies the protocol implements the interface
13:35	silasdavis	ah
13:35	silasdavis	what wouldn't?
13:35	sm0ke	sorry i mean *.pom
13:36	technomancy	sm0ke: gotcha. not sure if there's a way to fix that, but repro details in the issue report would be helpful.
13:36	sm0ke	ok i will update issue description
13:47	bacon1989	can anyone tell me why out is an empty list in this stream reading function? http://pastebin.com/j7v4GFub
13:48	gfredericks	bacon1989: don't use transients that way
13:49	gfredericks	bacon1989: but your main issue is that for is lazy
13:49	sm0ke	wow amazing that it doesnt work that way inspite of this
13:49	sm0ke	https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/master/src/leiningen/jar.clj#L175
13:49	technomancy	sm0ke: you may be the second or third person ever to use classifiers
13:49	gfredericks	bacon1989: transients should be used in the same way as the persistent data structures, i.e. by using the return value from conj!
13:50	bacon1989	ah
13:50	sm0ke	technomancy: :P
13:51	sm0ke	technomancy: you know what someday you would be doing so too and will thank me for reporting this :P
13:51	verma	sritchie, it works pretty well, only that I probably need to stringify-keys from keywords to strings, because they go as is and appear as :keyname on firebase :)
13:51	bacon1989	how the heck am I supposed to do this...
13:51	bacon1989	it seems like I need to write way more code than I should have to
13:52	justin_smith	bacon1989: you are using transients wrong
13:52	bacon1989	yeah, I got that, I was under the impression it was a mutable type, and conj! manipulated it
13:52	justin_smith	bacon1989: you need to bind to the return value of transients, they are not guaranteed to modify the value in place
13:52	bacon1989	apparently not
13:53	sm0ke	humm i am not sure if i am looking in the right place is jar.clj also responsible for deploying to local maven repo
13:53	bacon1989	actually, could I use set!?
13:53	justin_smith	no
13:53	bacon1989	or is that only for global vars, etc
13:53	justin_smith	use the return value as a loop binding
13:53	technomancy	sm0ke: might need install.clj and/or deploy.clj
13:53	bacon1989	justin_smith: i'd have to write a loop within a loop
13:54	justin_smith	(loop [out (transient [])] ... (recur (conj! out something)))
13:54	bacon1989	not that it's a big deal
13:54	sm0ke	aha
13:54	sm0ke	technomancy: jar function towards the end in jar.clj uses get-jar-filename*
13:54	bacon1989	justin_smith: is there an easy way to grab a subsection of a buffer?
13:54	sm0ke	instead of the classifed version
13:55	bacon1989	I mean, a byte-array
13:55	justin_smith	bacon1989: use reduce with conj! for the inner, instead of for
13:55	sm0ke	oh but it calls classifed function
13:55	justin_smith	bacon1989: sorry, that was not an answer to your last question
13:55	sm0ke	ugh
13:55	bacon1989	justin_smith: so a reduce over the array index using aget
13:55	justin_smith	bacon1989: subseq
13:56	justin_smith	err, never mind, not subseq
13:56	sm0ke	hurm but looks like it doesnt passes the classifier at all
13:56	bacon1989	byte-array is considered a sequence?
13:56	sm0ke	only suffixes if we do a uberjar
13:57	justin_smith	bacon1989: no, don't use subseq, I was wrong
13:57	gfredericks	,(doc subseq)
13:57	clojurebot	"([sc test key] [sc start-test start-key end-test end-key]); sc must be a sorted collection, test(s) one of <, <=, > or >=. Returns a seq of those entries with keys ek for which (test (.. sc comparator (compare ek key)) 0) is true"
13:58	gfredericks	bacon1989: you shouldn't need an inner loop for what you're doing
13:59	bacon1989	gfredericks: if the entire buffer isn't consumed, won't it conj crap at the end of my output?
13:59	justin_smith	,(java.util.Arrays/copyOfRange (byte-array (map byte (range 8))) 3 7) bacon1989
13:59	clojurebot	#<byte[] [B@3a8544>
13:59	bacon1989	right... so there is no easy way to grab a range...
14:00	justin_smith	bacon1989: look above, that's an easy way to grab a range
14:00	justin_smith	most of that code is just generating a byte array, for exampling purposes
14:00	sm0ke	if i knew how to get :classifier for the current profile. we can patch it to (if uberjar? :standalone (classifer))
14:00	bacon1989	ah
14:01	technomancy	sm0ke: don't think in terms of profiles; at that point all you have is a project map.
14:01	justin_smith	,(into [] (java.util.Arrays/copyOfRange (byte-array (map byte (range 8))) 3 7)) bacon1989: for clarity
14:01	clojurebot	[3 4 5 6]
14:01	sm0ke	yes? (:classifer project-map)
14:01	sm0ke	how do i get project map?
14:01	sm0ke	:P
14:02	sm0ke	or may be not so simple
14:02	sm0ke	if its nested in a profile?
14:02	technomancy	sm0ke: it's passed as an argument to the task function
14:02	technomancy	sm0ke: during task execution, profiles don't exist
14:03	sm0ke	aha
14:03	technomancy	only the project map exists meaningfully
14:03	sm0ke	technomancy: does the project map is as is? i mean are profiles merged in it?
14:04	sm0ke	if merged we can just do (:classifier project) right?
14:04	technomancy	sm0ke: yeah, the profile merge has happened upstream, but tasks shouldn't be aware of it
14:04	bacon1989	justin_smith: if I had an array of length 8, would I need to copyRange 0 7 to grab the entire thing?
14:04	bacon1989	i'm assuming it's zero-indexed
14:04	technomancy	tasks must operate just based on the map they're given, which will have everything they need
14:04	justin_smith	bacon1989: you could just use into to get it as a vector
14:04	justin_smith	bacon1989: or seq to get it as a seq
14:04	justin_smith	etc.
14:04	bacon1989	yeah, maybe I should just do that
14:04	justin_smith	,(seq (byte-array (map byte (range 8))))
14:04	clojurebot	(0 1 2 3 4 ...)
14:05	justin_smith	that example shows both halves of the monad (from seq to byte-array back to seq)
14:05	justin_smith	I thought you wanted some subsequence
14:06	justin_smith	ok, now that I read that paste less myopically, you just want the whole array, and calling seq will just do the right thing there
14:06	sm0ke	ok got to sleep now.. i will try my hands on this and will send a pr for review by tomorrow..nobody else wants this anyways
14:07	justin_smith	(and less verbosely, since seq already checks the size etc.)
14:07	bacon1989	justin_smith: as in, it will truncate any garbage for me?
14:07	justin_smith	bacon1989: hmm, that may be a "try and see" type thing actually
14:07	bacon1989	I don't think it will
14:07	justin_smith	but (take n s) is the solution if you get garbage
14:08	bacon1989	ah
14:12	bacon1989	I got an out of memory exception
14:12	bacon1989	i'm on the right track
14:13	bacon1989	is a string just a character sequence
14:14	justin_smith	well, it does implement the CharacterSequence class
14:14	justin_smith	*interface
14:14	justin_smith	*CharSequence that is
14:15	justin_smith	http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/lang/CharSequence.html
14:15	justin_smith	it isn't just that, because it does stuff with interning, and immutibility, and hashcodes etc.
14:15	justin_smith	so it is more than just an Array of characters
14:21	bacon1989	I actually need a string of the output, so this is what i'm going to try after a reboot http://pastebin.com/LGHVkpRL
14:23	bacon1989	still getting out of memory, i'm doing something wrong here
14:27	bacon1989	screw it, i'm using slurp
14:31	justin_smith	,(String. (byte-array (map byte "hello"))) bacon1989:
14:31	clojurebot	"hello"
14:42	alloyed	18:21 < bacon1989> still getting out of memory, i'm doing something wrong here
14:42	alloyed	18:25 < bacon1989> screw it, i'm using slurp
14:42	alloyed	18:30 < justin_smith> ,(String. (byte-array (map byte "hello"))) bacon1989:
14:42	alloyed	lol oops
14:43	cespare	Is there a reason the ->R record constructor cannot/does not attach a type hint to the result?
14:45	cespare	oh, because it's a function.
14:56	gfredericks	cespare: I think it still could
14:57	gfredericks	,(defrecord R [^String s])
14:57	clojurebot	sandbox.R
14:57	gfredericks	,(meta #'->R)
14:57	clojurebot	{:ns #<Namespace sandbox>, :name ->R, :file "NO_SOURCE_PATH", :column 0, :line 0, ...}
14:57	gfredericks	,(:tag (meta #'->R))
14:57	clojurebot	nil
15:00	TEttinger	,(:args (meta #'->R))
15:00	clojurebot	nil
15:00	TEttinger	,(:arglist (meta #'->R))
15:00	clojurebot	nil
15:00	TEttinger	,(:arglists (meta #'->R))
15:00	clojurebot	([s])
15:00	TEttinger	,(meta (:arglists (meta #'->R)))
15:00	clojurebot	nil
15:01	TEttinger	,(map meta (:arglists (meta #'->R)))
15:01	clojurebot	(nil)
15:01	TEttinger	hm
15:08	gfredericks	I'm surprised the metadata doesn't make it there even accidentally
15:08	gfredericks	seems like the natural impl would have to go out of its way to suppress it
15:11	gfredericks	cannot figure out where that gets lost
15:11	gfredericks	,(defn thing [^:foo a])
15:11	clojurebot	#'sandbox/thing
15:11	gfredericks	,(-> #'thing meta :arglists ffirst meta)
15:11	clojurebot	{:foo true}
15:12	TEttinger	,(-> #'->R meta :arglists ffirst meta)
15:12	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve var: ->R in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
15:12	TEttinger	,(defrecord R [^String s])
15:12	clojurebot	sandbox.R
15:12	TEttinger	,(-> #'->R meta :arglists ffirst meta)
15:12	clojurebot	nil
15:13	TEttinger	,(class R)
15:13	clojurebot	java.lang.Class
15:13	Bronsa	gfredericks: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/clj/clojure/core_deftype.clj#L360
15:13	TEttinger	,(class thing)
15:13	clojurebot	sandbox$thing
15:13	gfredericks	Bronsa: oh geez I missed that since it's shadowing
15:14	gfredericks	WELL GREAT
15:14	avgerino_	hello everyone
15:14	Bronsa	gfredericks: there's no particular reason why this https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/clj/clojure/core_deftype.clj#L366 uses fields rather than hinted-fields though
15:14	silasdavis	gfredericks, earlier you mentioned that not everything that satisfies a protocol implements the interface
15:14	silasdavis	couild you expand on that
15:14	Bronsa	sounds like that would be a reasonable improvement
15:14	silasdavis	what doesn't for instance?
15:15	gfredericks	silasdavis: anything you extend via extend-{protocol,type}
15:15	gfredericks	also nil
15:15	gfredericks	I guess that fits under the prior definition
15:15	silasdavis	what about within defrecord?
15:15	arrdem	Bronsa: er... do hinted fields make any sense except in the case of propagating the hint to (.foo my-record) cases?
15:16	arrdem	Bronsa: in which case you take a cast check anyway..
15:16	cespare	I'm sure I'm being dense, but when I've got something like (let [s ^String (...)] (mymacro s)) why doesn't mymacro see the type hint on s?
15:16	gfredericks	silasdavis: inline impls are via the interface
15:17	Bronsa	arrdem: gfredericks was wondering why the :arglists for ->record ctor doesn't preserve the hints
15:17	arrdem	Bronsa: ah
15:17	gfredericks	silasdavis: but inline isn't always possible, e.g. if two protocols have a function with the same name
15:17	gfredericks	arrdem: yeah it's not a big deal since the basis vector has them
15:18	arrdem	devn: dare I ask what you're using git-bump for? :P
15:19	silasdavis	gfredericks, ah I had wondered about that
15:19	silasdavis	so I am controlling the record definitions, and I am extending the interface of the protocol with another protocol
15:19	silasdavis	really it's a convenience to not have to repeat it
15:20	silasdavis	and I guess has some speed benefits
15:20	silasdavis	if I needed to I could copy the implementation into an (extend ...) macro
15:21	silasdavis	Is it possible to share implementation between and extend form and a defrecord form?
15:21	silasdavis	as a map
15:21	silasdavis	could I splice it in, so I don't have repeat the defintion?
15:21	gfredericks	extend takes a map I think
15:22	gfredericks	I think doing a bunch of stuff programmatically via extend is the most flexible thing you could come up with
15:23	cespare	and same thing with functions. mymacro only seems to get hints that are given directly to its arg
15:24	Vfe	How can I ensure sequential execution of seveal functions? I’m having an issue where I have a let statement, and one of my assignments has to pull from a DB, and sometimes the functions afterwards executes before that assignment completes, and it ends up with a null value.
15:24	silasdavis	looking at the source, emit-defrecord is called by defrecord and is marked private
15:25	silasdavis	so I suppose if you want to share implementations you can't easily include them inline
15:25	Bronsa	silasdavis: extend takes a map of functions, defrecord does not
15:26	silasdavis	Bronsa, yep I was aware of that, I was just wondering if I could use a macro or something to get the benefit of sharing implementations and the speed benefit of implementing inline
15:26	Jaood	Vfe: use an atom
15:27	Bronsa	silasdavis: I wrote https://github.com/Bronsa/neurotic which allows you to share implementation between deftypes/defrecord
15:27	Bronsa	not between a deftype and an extend though
15:30	silasdavis	Bronsa, bonkers
15:30	silasdavis	really cool
15:30	gfredericks	,(->> (repeat 10000 ['(3) [4]]) (apply concat) (apply concat) (reduce +))
15:30	silasdavis	just what I had in mind
15:30	clojurebot	#<StackOverflowError java.lang.StackOverflowError>
15:30	Vfe	Jaood: On what exactly? each element of the let? Here’s what’s going on, https://gist.github.com/VFe/3c8fe2f088301c931339 . I just want to make sure all let assignments complete before anything that will come after the let.
15:30	silasdavis	how much have you had to modify the implementations of defrecord*
15:30	silasdavis	I couldn't tell by inspection
15:30	Bronsa	gfredericks: IIRC there's already a ticket w/ patch for that
15:31	Bronsa	silasdavis: I really don't remember
15:31	gfredericks	Bronsa: yeah that was mine I just sometimes feel this insatiable urge to make the bot do something
15:31	gfredericks	it's a personal shortcoming.
15:31	Bronsa	ah ok :)
15:31	silasdavis	Bronsa, is it possible it could have diverged from functionality in 1.6?
15:32	Bronsa	silasdavis: let me check one sec
15:33	Bronsa	silasdavis: no there hasn't been any changes to defrecord/deftype since I wrote neurotic
15:33	cespare	If I have (let [s ^String (...)] (mymacro s)) why doesn't mymacro see the type hint on s?
15:35	Jaood	Vfe: on the data you are receiving from the DB, atoms will block until modifications on them are complete
15:36	silasdavis	Bronsa, great thanks for checking I think I'll find this useful :)
15:36	Vfe	Jaood: Thanks!, I’ll give it a try.
15:37	Jaood	Vfe: so your function after the let will run after the modification of the atom (retrieving the data from the DB) is complete
15:40	Janiczek	Is there a way for `cljsbuild test my-test-profile` not to run ALL cljsbuild tasks beforehand? I'd like it to not run any, or to at least run one, specified by me. This way testing takes too long because it compiles dev, prod, test, just about every cljsbuild build I have.
15:55	borkdude	Are microservices a chance to smuggle more clojure into production?
15:58	whodidthis	maybe modestservices, jvm to big for micro
16:06	gfixler	does clojure have a thing which I'm tempted to call juxtcat?
16:10	borkdude	probably not
16:11	borkdude	gfixler but mapcat can be used thusly:
16:12	borkdude	,(mapcat #(% 1) [vector vector vector])
16:12	clojurebot	(1 1 1)
16:12	borkdude	which looks kinf of like ((juxt vector vector vector) 1)
16:13	gfixler	hmmm
16:13	gfixler	,(map (juxt #(apply vector %) #(apply (comp reverse vector) %)) ["foo" "bar" "baz"])
16:13	clojurebot	([[\f \o \o] (\o \o \f)] [[\b \a \r] (\r \a \b)] [[\b \a \z] (\z \a \b)])
16:13	gfixler	juxtcat would just merge those subcollections
16:14	gfixler	([[\f \o \o \o \o \f] [\b \a \r \r \a \b] etc...])
16:14	borkdude	gfixler what is the exact result you want. [\f \o \o \o \o \f ...], or a nested nested thing?
16:14	gfixler	it's actually for 3-space stuff
16:15	gfixler	(map (juxtcat pos rot) ["node1" "node2" "node3"])
16:15	gfixler	pos and rot would both give back [x y z] triples
16:15	borkdude	I think a for comprehension might be better here
16:15	llasram	gfixler: So (comp (partial apply concat) (juxt ...)) ?
16:15	gfixler	I suppose
16:15	gfixler	I can make it happen a few ways, but clojure has so many of these little tools, I figured I'd ask :)
16:16	llasram	,(defn juxtcat [& args] (comp (partial apply concat) (apply juxt args)))
16:16	clojurebot	#'sandbox/juxtcat
16:16	gfixler	llasram: yep, that would do it
16:17	borkdude	,(for [word ["node1" "node2" "node3"]] (concat word (reverse word)))
16:17	clojurebot	((\n \o \d \e \1 ...) (\n \o \d \e \2 ...) (\n \o \d \e \3 ...))
16:17	gfixler	,(map (juxtcat #(apply vector %) #(apply (comp reverse vector) %)) ["foo" "bar" "baz"])
16:17	clojurebot	((\f \o \o \o \o ...) (\b \a \r \r \a ...) (\b \a \z \z \a ...))
16:17	gfixler	clojurebot abbreviates?
16:18	gfixler	,(map (juxtcat #(apply vector %) #(apply (comp reverse vector) %)) ["foo" "bar"])
16:18	clojurebot	((\f \o \o \o \o ...) (\b \a \r \r \a ...))
16:18	gfixler	interesting
16:18	gfixler	borkdude: also a good idea
16:18	llasram	gfixler: (apply vector ...) is pretty much just vec, and in this context is pretty much just seq
16:19	gfixler	,(map (juxtcat #(seq %) #(apply (comp reverse vector) %)) ["foo" "bar"])
16:19	clojurebot	((\f \o \o \o \o ...) (\b \a \r \r \a ...))
16:19	gfixler	yep
16:20	moea	I have a pretty simple macro which, for debugging, is doing this: (println (into {} (map (fn [[k v]] [(name k) (mapv str v)]) output-spec))), where output-spec is a literal map which is one of the macro's parameters
16:21	moea	it collapses three keys with distinct keyword names into nil - i.e. (name) is returning nil
16:22	moea	(class k) is Keyword
16:22	moea	and doing (str k) results in ":keyword-name"
16:22	moea	so i have no idea why name would be returning nil
16:23	borkdude	moea because of the println
16:23	borkdude	oh wait sorry, misread
16:24	edw	moea: Could you re-post your paste?
16:26	devn	arrdem: RE: git-bump. i was stalking your github profile last night and thought it looked like it might be a good idea (maybe :)
16:27	devn	arrdem: I was thinking the hook could prompt me or something
16:27	devn	arrdem: another thought i had was to use rewrite-clj to auto-update my project.clj at the same time
16:27	technomancy	devn: ahem
16:27	devn	technomancy: yessir?
16:27	moea	edw: https://gist.github.com/moea/09f5465acec4f3333014
16:28	technomancy	devn: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/master/src/leiningen/change.clj
16:28	moea	oops
16:28	edw	Thanks.
16:28	devn	technomancy: :) oops
16:29	edw	There's a lot wrong going on there, moea.
16:29	technomancy	well it is brand new functionality =)
16:30	technomancy	devn: also the release task
16:30	devn	technomancy: that's really nice to have. i may try and co-opt some of that for hoplon
16:30	edw	moea: Do you know that you can use `macroexpand-1` to see what a macro will expand into?
16:30	moea	edw: yeah, i figured spitting it out would make it easier to talk about the about output
16:30	technomancy	man
16:31	technomancy	every time I read Papert, I'm all "this guy knows where his towel is"
16:31	technomancy	http://www.papert.org/articles/ACritiqueofTechnocentrism.html
16:31	amalloy	moea: your macro only takes one parameter, but you're passing it four? that breaks long before this "collapsing different keywords" thing you're talking about
16:32	edw	moea: Is this closer to what you were looking for?
16:32	edw	https://gist.github.com/moea/09f5465acec4f3333014#comment-1259965
16:32	moea	yeah, i screwed up paste, sorry :(
16:32	amalloy	edw: that would be a silly macro definition
16:33	amalloy	even if you fixed it to compile, by adding the gensyms, you've just defined something that a function could do
16:33	edw	amalloy: Yeah, obviously.
16:33	edw	amalloy: I'm more of a "make it work, then explain why it was the wrong solution in the first place" kind of person.
16:33	amalloy	well, you missed step 1, then :P
16:34	amalloy	his defmacro compiles and then fails when used; yours doesn't even compile
16:34	edw	I don't have a REPL open right now, and it might be half-written in Scheme.
16:35	amalloy	his definition looks fine to me, honestly, as long as he only calls it with one argument which is a literal map
16:35	gfixler	edw: can confirm, it runs in (partial clojure scheme)
16:35	gfixler	I mean (comp clojure scheme)
16:35	amalloy	which is what he said was happening
16:35	gfixler	that's what I want someday - composable languages
16:36	TEttinger	can't racket kinda do that?
16:36	gfixler	I don't know. I haven't used it
16:36	edw	gfixler: I've been writing some nasty `comb` templates that generate JavaScript inside HTML. It's not fun.
16:37	TEttinger	and wouldn't it end up with a JS/CSS/HTML hybrid monstrosity like web dev has?
16:37	edw	TEttinger: Yeah, good luck getting Emacs to indent that shit correctly.
16:38	TEttinger	haha
16:38	Frozenlock	edw: Emacs can already indent many different codes in org-mode babel
16:39	edw	Frozenlock: So to edit HTML with embedded CSS and JS, I should use…org-mode?
16:39	Frozenlock	clearly the superior solution :-p
16:39	Frozenlock	org-html-css-js, the future of the web
16:39	moea	never mind, i'm a moron. part of me screwing up the paste was me removing a "name" parameter to the macro. so dumb.
16:39	Frozenlock	be afraid, very afraid
16:40	moea	i also removed the body, which couldn't be accomplished in a function, FWIW
16:41	edw	moea: In general 99% percent of what you want a macro to do can be done in a function, so make the macro nothing more than the syntactic glue-sugar to make that happen.
16:43	cespare	If I have (let [s ^String (...)] (mymacro s)) why doesn't mymacro see the type hint on s? It seems like the compiler consumes the tag and the macro doesn't get to see it.
16:43	cespare	unless (...) yields something that is not a string.
16:45	shiranaihito	off-topic, but educational: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IJeemTQ7Vk
16:48	edw	shiranaihito: Troll elsewhere please.
16:49	shiranaihito	edw: please remain calm :) you might want to watch the video anyway
16:49	edw	I don't think I'm ready to handle the Ron Paul Revolution.
16:49	shiranaihito	i'm inclined to agree :P
16:51	shiranaihito	but instead of objecting to seeing a video because it's got a controversial title, it might be more sensible to just watch it a bit further and see if it makes any sense etc
16:52	bbloom	shiranaihito: not appropriate for this channel.
16:54	shiranaihito	yes, i was expecting a hostile reaction, but that's alright
16:55	Frozenlock	That's even less related to clojure than my Carl Sagan videos.
16:58	shiranaihito	obviously, the idea here was just to post a link hoping that someone would see it without having a fit, watch it and learn about the world we all live in.. i was well aware that it would be frowned upon, but linked it anyway.. on the other hand, i'd expect a bunch of people as smart as Clojure programmers to be reasonably well equipped to process new information
16:58	amalloy	cespare: what do you mean, the macro doesn't get to see it? do you know how metadata works? try posting some compilable code, its actual results, and what you expected to see instead
16:59	technomancy	,(= "equipped to process new information" "appreciates political propaganda spam")
16:59	gfredericks	amalloy: I think he means the symbol passed to the macro doesn't have metadata
16:59	clojurebot	false
17:00	amalloy	gfredericks: that would be one reasonable interpretation, but i'm not going to explain what's going on until i know that's the question
17:01	TimMc	technomancy: If spam, why not kick?
17:02	technomancy	TimMc: I save kicks for repeat offenders =)
17:02	TimMc	nod
17:02	gfredericks	clojurebot: why is <reply> because that's not how macros work
17:02	clojurebot	Roger.
17:03	TimMc	I am a bit more of a hard-ass^W^W^Wproactive.
17:03	Frozenlock	and that's why we prefer technomancy :-p
17:04	verma	whe I reify a java interface, do I have to implement all methods?
17:04	TimMc	I mod some subreddits and it would be really nice to have a /kick option to complement bans -- something where the offender has to take a small action to start participating again.
17:04	Frozenlock	seancorfield: I'm loading my database into into tokumx, I should be able to test congomongo with it very shortly.
17:05	gfredericks	,(reify clojure.lang.ISeq (first [_] 42))
17:05	clojurebot	#<AbstractMethodError java.lang.AbstractMethodError>
17:05	gfredericks	,(let [x (reify clojure.lang.ISeq (first [_] 42))] (instance? Object x))
17:05	clojurebot	true
17:05	gfredericks	verma: I don't think you do?
17:07	amalloy	you don't have to, but if anyone tries to call one of those methods they'll get an unpleasant surprise (and you're "supposed" to implement them all)
17:07	stuartsierra	AbstractMethodError is what you get, I think
17:08	amalloy	yeah, but only if someone calls it, not when you actually reify it
17:08	stuartsierra	yes
17:08	gfredericks	you're supposed to? we're held to a higher standard than vectors implementing java.util.List?
17:08	amalloy	gfredericks: they implement all of it
17:08	amalloy	as far as i know
17:08	gfredericks	wat
17:08	amalloy	they throw UnsupportedOperation for the mutating methods
17:09	amalloy	i mean, vector is written in java. it's impossible to not implement all of an interface in java
17:09	gfredericks	amalloy: oh is the exact exception type the relevant difference?
17:09	seancorfield	Frozenlock: cool, i look forward to any tickets you raise to add full support! :)
17:09	amalloy	errrr
17:09	amalloy	well, AbstractMethodError is kinda different
17:09	amalloy	it's not even an exception, it's an error
17:09	gfredericks	I'm just wondering where this supposing comes from since there seem to be a plethora of java interfaces that have sane partial implementations
17:10	amalloy	it's like a linker error
17:10	gfredericks	okay so that is the difference you're after then
17:10	gfredericks	and if there was a helper macro that threw the UnsupportedOperation then that'd be better?
17:10	amalloy	gfredericks: the java.util.* interfaces explicitly say "if you don't support mutation, you can throw UnsupportedOperationException for those methods"
17:11	gfredericks	oh are they checked?
17:11	amalloy	throwing it for arbitrary other methods in other interfaces would be wrong
17:11	amalloy	no, it's just a sentence in the javadoc
17:12	amalloy	related: this is the minimum you have to implement for the clojure printer to be willing to print you as a sequence: ##(take 10 (reify clojure.lang.ISeq (first [this] 1) (more [this] this) clojure.lang.Seqable (seq [this] this) clojure.lang.Sequential))
17:12	lazybot	⇒ (1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1)
17:14	gfredericks	amalloy: TIL.
17:15	amalloy	gfredericks: Error is supposed to be an indication that something is seriously wrong with the vm and you generally shouldn't attempt to recover
17:15	gfredericks	amalloy: that bit I was aware of
17:16	amalloy	it's always seemed wrong to me that clojure and/or the jvm let you define partial implementations of an interface that throw an Error when you try to use them
17:17	gfredericks	you'd prefer the jvm abort when loading the class?
17:17	gfredericks	and/or the spec disallow it?
17:19	amalloy	that seems reasonable to me
17:19	amalloy	otherwise you can get a disastrous Error literally anywhere in your code, where you don't have any catch blocks set up to handle it because it's an Error
17:21	gfredericks	I think the biggest bug I've caught in clojureland was java.jdbc catching Exception around transactions
17:25	cespare	amalloy: gfredericks came up with several different questions: http://pastie.org/9369240
17:25	cespare	please correct my misunderstandings
17:26	amalloy	cespare: yes, reader metadata is for the compiler,not for you to work with at runtime
17:27	amalloy	if you want your m macro to work, you can/should write (let [^String s (str "1")] (m s))
17:28	gfredericks	amalloy: I don't think that works
17:29	gfredericks	amalloy_: well at least not the stricter thing I thought you meant, but you probably didn't
17:32	gfredericks	,(defmacro sym-meta [sym] (meta sym))
17:32	clojurebot	#'sandbox/sym-meta
17:33	gfredericks	,(sym-meta ^:foo ^:bar x)
17:33	clojurebot	{:bar true, :foo true}
17:33	gfredericks	,(let [^String s (str "1")] (sym-meta s))
17:33	clojurebot	nil
17:34	Bronsa	gfredericks: you could always (ab)use &env
17:34	gfredericks	,(defmacro sym-meta [sym] (-> &env (find sym) key meta))
17:34	clojurebot	#'sandbox/sym-meta
17:34	gfredericks	,(sym-meta ^:foo ^:bar x)
17:35	clojurebot	#<NullPointerException java.lang.NullPointerException>
17:35	gfredericks	,(let [^String s (str "1")] (sym-meta s))
17:35	clojurebot	{:tag java.lang.String}
17:35	gfredericks	HUH.
17:35	gfredericks	(inc Bronsa)
17:35	lazybot	⇒ 27
17:35	gfredericks	I woulda declared that impossible
17:35	Bronsa	that's just horrible though never do that again
17:35	TEttinger	(inc Bronsa)
17:35	lazybot	⇒ 28
17:35	Bronsa	a puppy dies every time you use &env etc
17:36	gfredericks	,(defmacro sym-meta "Despite Bronsa" [sym] (-> &env (find sym) (some-> key) (or sym) meta))
17:36	clojurebot	#'sandbox/sym-meta
17:36	gfredericks	,(sym-meta ^:foo ^:bar x)
17:36	clojurebot	{:bar true, :foo true}
17:36	gfredericks	,(let [^String s (str "1")] (sym-meta s))
17:36	clojurebot	{:tag java.lang.String}
17:37	gfredericks	there now it is more robust and production-ready
17:37	gfredericks	eh it should probably merge the two eh?
17:37	gfredericks	we're already on version 0.2.0 of this
17:38	gfredericks	,(defmacro sym-meta "Despite Bronsa" [sym] (let [immediate (meta sym), env (-> &env (find sym) (some-> key) meta)] (merge env immediate)))
17:38	clojurebot	#'sandbox/sym-meta
17:38	gfredericks	,(sym-meta ^:foo ^:bar x)
17:38	clojurebot	{:bar true, :foo true}
17:38	gfredericks	,(let [^String s (str "1")] (sym-meta ^:immediate s))
17:38	clojurebot	{:tag java.lang.String, :immediate true}
17:41	iamdustan	Total noob question here. I'm learning clojure right now and decided to do some codeeval's. Only problem is I cannot find any way to read from stdin like codeeval requires that works.
17:42	Frozenlock	seancorfield: Everything (except the geo thingy) is working for me... and the DB is indeed 90% smaller. o_O
17:42	iamdustan	it's example code looks like:
17:42	iamdustan	(doseq [line (remove empty? (line-seq rdr))] (do-something-with line)))
17:42	iamdustan	which throws an error about rdr
17:43	iamdustan	and another think I found on stackoverflow looked like the following:
17:43	iamdustan	(defn -main
17:43	iamdustan	[& args]
17:43	iamdustan	(with-open [rdr (clojure.java.io/reader (first args))]
17:43	iamdustan	(doseq [line (remove empty? (line-seq rdr))]
17:43	iamdustan	(println (solve line)))))
17:43	iamdustan	which also throws an error.
17:43	Frozenlock	seancorfield: the congomongo test returns 4 errors however. (on 52 tests / 180 assertions)
17:44	Frozenlock	Still, I'd say it's pretty impressive.
17:44	iamdustan	wait. that one doesn't error, it just doesn't ever print anything...
17:45	seancorfield	Frozenlock: not bad!
17:45	aperiodic	iamdustan: is ##(doc read-line) what you're looking for?
17:45	lazybot	⇒ "([]); Reads the next line from stream that is the current value of in ."
17:45	seancorfield	feel free to open an issue with the test failure details and i'll take a look
17:45	seancorfield	can't promise anything, but i'll take a look :)
17:45	Frozenlock	understood :-p
17:47	iamdustan	aperiodic: trying that now. thanks
17:47	aperiodic	iamdustan: you probably would've found it by looking at http://clojure.org/cheatsheet
17:48	iamdustan	bookmarked!
17:56	cespare	amalloy_: oh jeez, thanks.
17:57	amalloy	man. my isp's field tech cannot fix my internet soon enough. it's frustrating getting dropped out of #clojure in the middle of explaining something
18:00	amalloy	huh. i just got emacs to ask me if i want to abort and dump core
18:01	amalloy	but C-h l doesn't show me typing anything out of the ordinary. just a bunch of movement commands and then C-g
18:02	amalloy	but when i said "no thanks" it just went back to working as usual, so i guess i don't get to say i crashed emacs
18:05	gfredericks	amalloy: it asks me that almost every day
18:05	gfredericks	usually after I've been mashing the keyboard for a couple seconds
18:06	amalloy	really???????
18:06	gfredericks	actually it's after accidentally backgrounding
18:06	amalloy	i've been using emacs for like four years, never seen that in my life. i feel like emacs is willing to do things with you it never does for me
18:06	gfredericks	keyboard mashing -> in the background -> `fg` -> "abort and dump core?"
18:06	gfredericks	it's like this married routine we have
18:07	amalloy	and yes, i think it's backgrounding related. i discovered that i can't background it (C-z gets ignored) when i'm running it via `ssh some-host -t emacs`
18:07	gfredericks	z is my tmux hotkey so this stuff is complicated for me
18:07	amalloy	so i was smashing on keys to see what would happen
18:07	gfredericks	every month or so I end up crashing my whole tmux session somehow
18:08	arrdem	Bronsa: tejvm will only emit .invoke for {:op :fn-method}, right? I can't force a different method name without forking to my own emitter?
18:14	Bronsa	arrdem: yeah that's not really configurable
18:15	arrdem	Bronsa: kay. thanks.
18:15	Bronsa	arrdem: but well, you could provide your own -emit multimethod that defaults to c.t.e.j.emit/-emit and provides different compilation methods for the op you need
18:16	arrdem	Bronsa: I think that's what I'm gonna do, the question is whether the common set of emit operations is large enough to justify not just writing my own from scratch due to other differences.
18:17	Bronsa	that's up to you :)
18:18	arrdem	:P
18:31	technomancy	amalloy: spamming C-g will let you dump core at any point with emacs
18:32	technomancy	if you tip some threshhold
18:32	amalloy	for real? nice
18:32	technomancy	presumably for debugging the lisp engine
18:32	amalloy	huh, so it will
18:32	technomancy	I've only ever seen it over SSH
18:42	gfredericks	(inc technomancy)
18:42	lazybot	⇒ 117
18:42	gfredericks	that explains a lot
18:42	gfredericks	spamming C-g is my primary debugging tactic
18:42	Janiczek	(inc gfredericks)
18:43	lazybot	⇒ 74
18:43	gfredericks	I'll assume I just got inc'd because I inc'd somebody
18:43	gfredericks	somebody inc Janiczek plz
18:44	Janiczek	gfredericks: haha no, I liked the "spamming C-g" line. :)
18:44	gfredericks	can we turn this into a pyramid scheme somehow?
18:44	amalloy	i'll never reveal the secret of my scheme, gfredericks
18:44	gfredericks	if anybody figures out how make sure that everybody involved inc's me for coming up with the idea
18:44	seangrove	(* -1 amalloy)
18:45	amalloy	seangrove: ITYM (- amalloy)
18:45	seangrove	(inc amalloy)
18:45	lazybot	⇒ 144
18:45	technomancy	I've upgraded to pyramid rackets.
18:46	gfredericks	you guys had me suspecting I had missspelt something
18:48	gfredericks	is pyramid scheme the name of an interpreter?
18:49	gfredericks	if not I offer $10 to anybody who starts one and takes over the google search results for that phrase
18:49	gfredericks	I'll be willing to go up to $11 but that's my best offer
18:50	j0ni	win 2
19:06	noncom	how do i make this work : https://www.refheap.com/87991
19:06	noncom	it does not accept "pres" there
19:06	Shayanjm	Given a lazyseq in the form of (("thing1" "thing2") ("thing3" "thing4")...) - what would be the most efficient way to iterate over each sub-seq, determine if "thing2" and "thing4" are equivalent - and merge the adjacent elements together if they are (i.e: (("thing1 thing3" "thing2 thing4")))
19:07	Shayanjm	The hard part is preserving the rest of the lazyseq as is
19:08	noncom	split in two lazyseqs ?
19:08	noncom	a lazyseq built from a lazyseq preserves laziness i guesss.. ?
19:09	noncom	but plitting them, you will have two seqs of equal length..
19:09	noncom	if that helps..
19:37	Shayanjm	yeah I'm drawing a blank here. Any help would be much appreciated
19:37	Shayanjm	I have a lazy-seq in this format: https://gist.github.com/shayanjm/51b19051fead468158a5
19:37	clojurebot	No entiendo
19:38	Shayanjm	each element of the lazy-seq has two values. I'd like to compare the second value of the element to the second value of the next element. If both are the same, I'd like to merge both elements together in the form ("thing1 thing2" "thing3 thing4")
19:39	Shayanjm	I'm just unsure as to how to iterate over the lazy-sequence, merge the elements and insert while still preserving the rest of the sequence
19:39	arrdem	well that's a trivial reduce operation...
19:39	arrdem	I think there's a clojure core function for it
19:39	Shayanjm	seriously? :o
19:40	amalloy	mapcat
19:40	arrdem	I was thinking for partition-by, which won't do this job
19:41	Shayanjm	My issue is selecting a 'current element' and a 'next element'
19:41	Shayanjm	probably just a mental block
19:42	arrdem	(reduce (fn [[previous-hunks this-hunk prev] this] (when (= (second prev) (second this))...)))
19:42	amalloy	are you sure you actually mean pairs of elements? it looks like your example wants to combine all the things whose second element is "O" together, or something
19:42	amalloy	which is just partition-by
19:42	Shayanjm	amalloy: it's not. It must be adjacent elements
19:42	amalloy	arrdem: gross. not lazy enough
19:42	amalloy	right right, all the adjacent ones with the same second element
19:43	Shayanjm	Yeah. I'm basically scraping for tags inside article content
19:43	amalloy	as opposed to each pair, which sounds very different: the number 2 is not special to you at all, so pair is wrong
19:43	Shayanjm	if two words next to each other are tagged the same (i.e: "Gaza" and "Strip" are both tagged as locations)
19:43	amalloy	you just want (partition-by second xs)
19:43	Shayanjm	they should be concat'd so it becomes "Gaza Strip"
19:43	arrdem	amalloy: you could partition-by over (map vec seq (rest seq))
19:44	amalloy	arrdem: there's no reason to do that. he doesn't care about pairs. he's just trying to partition-by. observe: Shayanjm, should '(("has" "O") ("launched" "O") ("what" "O")) all three be merged into one thing?
19:44	Shayanjm	They could be. It doesn't really matter at that point
19:45	Shayanjm	but if "launched" had something other than O attributed to it, they shouldn't be.
19:45	Shayanjm	It probably would simplify things if the O's were merged as well
19:45	arrdem	amalloy: amaze me, I don't think that's possible with a single partition-by.
19:46	seangrove	Just to be sure, (doseq [s (doall (map :name some-seq))] ...) - the doseq isn't lazy, so the doall is unnecessary, right?
19:46	amalloy	arrdem: it is literally (partition-by second xs). that is is all that's being requested. then you map over that
19:46	Shayanjm	amalloy: xs?
19:46	amalloy	your input seq
19:46	Shayanjm	oic
19:46	Shayanjm	interesting. Let me try
19:47	gfixler	Shayanjm: (map #(apply str (map first %)) (partition-by second '(("Israel" etc...?
19:47	gfixler	all: critiques of this approach?
19:47	gfixler	not lazy?
19:47	amalloy	but, as always, i'd like to repeat the general rule: if you want help writing a function to turn X into Y...include an exact, specific value for X and Y
19:47	verma	hey you guys think there's a better way of doing this: https://gist.github.com/verma/6cf76edffd91a93bac3e
19:48	amalloy	it dramatically cuts down on the pointless guessing and back-and-forth everyone has to do to figure out what you want to do
19:48	Shayanjm	amalloy: that's fair. The partition-by didn't work. I'll rewrite my gist so its more clear
19:48	gfixler	Shayanjm: partition-by works fine for me
19:48	amalloy	Shayanjm: the partition-by gets things grouped together. then you map over the seq and format them however you want
19:48	amalloy	as in gfixler's example
19:49	amalloy	which in fact is perfectly lazy
19:49	gfixler	my apply str doesn't put in spaces, but that's simple enough to add in
19:49	arrdem	(inc amalloy)
19:49	lazybot	⇒ 145
19:49	amalloy	gfixler: (clojure.string/join " " (...))
19:49	Shayanjm	oh you're right
19:49	Shayanjm	much appreciated amalloy gfixler
19:49	gfixler	arrdem: is that a clojurecoin?
19:50	amalloy	but, really, combining the strings with spaces - are you sure you want to do that? having a list of strings instead of one string with spaces in it doesn't lose any information, and is easier to chew on later
19:50	arrdem	gfixler: I mean.. I'd dogetipbot amalloy but apparently I'm on thin ice as a channel nusance according to hiredman so I refrain
19:51	gfixler	arrdem: I see. It's about day 4 for me on freenode, and day 1 for me on irssi; still learning
19:51	arrdem	gfixler: welcome then. yeah inc is for in-channel karma.
19:52	arrdem	note that it's not really a function. code is , or & prefixed whereas inc is just a bot command.
19:53	Shayanjm	amalloy: I'm mining keywords from an article. It actually fuzzes the results by quite a bit if I'm returning multiple adjacent 'similar' elements
19:54	amalloy	Shayanjm: feel free to combine them, but make it a list
19:54	Shayanjm	That's fair
19:54	amalloy	'((gaza strip) (has whatever blah foo) (west bank))
19:59	arrdem	Bronsa: is it safe to say that your bytecode AST is AST :- (Seq Op); Op :- [icode :- Keyword [ method :- Keyword . args :- (Seq Object)] ret-type :- Class]
20:02	ttasterisco	(karma amalloy)
20:02	ttasterisco	; how do I check the karma of someone?
20:02	amalloy	$karma ttasterisco
20:02	lazybot	ttasterisco has karma 0.
20:02	ttasterisco	$karma amalloy
20:02	lazybot	amalloy has karma 145.
20:03	ttasterisco	$karma lazybot
20:03	lazybot	lazybot has karma 28.
20:03	ttasterisco	$karma clojurebot
20:03	lazybot	clojurebot has karma 40.
20:05	Bronsa	arrdem: uhm, not really, only a small part of the bytecode represent calls
20:06	arrdem	Bronsa: yeah I see that as I'm reading more of this. disregard the above :P
20:06	Bronsa	arrdem: and besides, symbols/strings/classes/keywords can be used interchangeably right now
20:07	Bronsa	arrdem: also -emit doesn't return [bc*] for :method and :fn-method, which is something that'll probbaly need to change
20:07	arrdem	Bronsa: yeah it doesn't, which is something I'm gonna have to change
20:08	Bronsa	I was just too lazy to think of another function name for that so I implemented it with -emit
20:08	arrdem	I have my own -emit fork that handles only the AST elements involved in my hello world test. I'm going through transform.clj trying to get a handle on it so I can either use it or yak shave it into something I will use.
20:09	arrdem	I kinda feel like transform.clj is general purpose enough that it could be its own objectweb ASM wrapper lib..
20:09	Bronsa	arrdem: yeah it's easier to figure out all the allowed bc representations by reading transform.clj
20:09	Bronsa	it's really straightforward
20:10	arrdem	Bronsa: yah. probably a documentation patch headed your way once I'm done :P
20:11	Bronsa	arrdem: when I was moving CinC to the contrib infrastructure Rich proposed to pull transform.clj into its own library to manipulate bytecode
20:11	Bronsa	the reason why I didn't think it was a good idea is because as it is, it's pretty much just a POC
20:12	Bronsa	before putting any considerable amount of work into making it more than just that I'd like to assess if it's reasonable to keep using this approach, performance wise
20:13	arrdem	yeah... I'm tempted to yak shave a pure clojure JVM class emitter but that's just a waste of time. a better objectweb ASM wrapper would be nice tho.
20:14	Bronsa	arrdem: I havent done any specific benchmark to see how much impact that little interpreter has on the compilation speed but I fear that all that destructuring + multimethod dispatching for EACH bytecode op might be too much
20:14	arrdem	Bronsa: I doubt that's a problem. I'd expect that all the vector mashing you do in emit.clj is the primary roadblock.
20:14	arrdem	Bronsa: I think that cleaning that up with a better bytecode DSL should solve most of our woes
20:16	atyz	Does anyone have an opinion on the following om libraries: Devcards, om-tools or would you rather just use om?
20:16	Bronsa	arrdem: I talked with bbloom a while ago what the alternatives could be for avoiding all that unquote-splicing and he pointed me to his transduce library which he uses for flipp
20:18	Bronsa	arrdem: I looked into it and it looks like a reasonable approach but I haven't had the time to work extensively on tej yet, dunno if you'll have before me but feel free to experiment if that's the case
20:18	arrdem	Bronsa: I'll check it out. I was just thinking that at an architectural level we don't really care about the sequence _type_ of bytecode so long as the _order_ is preserved. This means that if we represent a single op as an obvious {:op ..} map ala the rest of TANAL it's trivial to detect nested subsequences of bytecode that need to be inlined. This would let us make all bytecode generation lazy and soforth until it hits the emitter which is strict anyway.
20:19	arrdem	but it may be worth sweating the memory overhead of a crapload of small maps compared to some vectors....
20:19	bbloom	Bronsa: i forget the details, but i'm not sure what i suggested transduce for..... i think i just suggested you do like fipp does prior to the transduce stage: where it does it's own serialization
20:19	bbloom	er linearization/flattening/whatever you wanna call it
20:20	bbloom	the slow part being this:
20:20	bbloom	'`[~x ~@y ~z]
20:20	bbloom	,'`[~x ~@y ~z]
20:20	clojurebot	(clojure.core/apply clojure.core/vector (clojure.core/seq (clojure.core/concat (clojure.core/list x) y (clojure.core/list z))))
20:21	bbloom	notice all the extra vector constructios, applies, concats, etc
20:21	bbloom	if instead you flattened seqs as part of the traversal, hiccup style, then you'd save a lot of construction/garbage costs
20:21	arrdem	Yep.
20:23	bbloom	oh, and then there's metadata:
20:23	bbloom	'`^{:omg "this" :is "nuts"} x
20:23	bbloom	,'`^{:omg "this" :is "nuts"} x
20:23	clojurebot	(clojure.core/with-meta (quote sandbox/x) (clojure.core/apply clojure.core/hash-map (clojure.core/seq (clojure.core/concat (clojure.core/list :is) (clojure.core/list "nuts") (clojure.core/list :omg) (clojure.core/list "this")))))
20:23	bbloom	lol
20:24	arrdem	heh
20:24	bbloom	syntax quote is killing your perf :-P
20:24	Bronsa	bbloom: yeah right, I actually profiled that quite a while ago and I remember tej spending close to ~60% of the time flattening the bytecode
20:25	Bronsa	getting rid of that would be a good performance win
20:25	bbloom	that's why i do this: https://github.com/brandonbloom/fipp/blob/master/src/fipp/printer.clj#L28
20:25	Bronsa	bbloom: have you actually looked at how other lisps implement syntax-quote while writing backtick?
20:26	bbloom	where seqs are treated the same as a :span node: https://github.com/brandonbloom/fipp/blob/master/src/fipp/printer.clj#L43-L44
20:26	arrdem	&(seq? {})
20:26	lazybot	⇒ false
20:26	bbloom	Bronsa: clojure's syntax-quote is pretty standard, but has some oddities regarding 1) metadata and 2) namespaces & symbol qualification
20:26	bbloom	and 3) the pretty standard gensym unification extension
20:27	Bronsa	2 and 3 shouldn't cause any performance problem here
20:27	Bronsa	1 probably does since it's operating on read-time literals that will have line/column/file metadata
20:27	bbloom	yeah, both of those happen statically
20:28	bbloom	yup :-/
20:28	bbloom	but good news is that you can just remove the `, ~, and ~@s and put a little flattening recursive walk around the whole thing, and the code basically doesn't need to change beyond that
20:28	bbloom	should just be faster AND prettier
20:29	Bronsa	I belive you on faster, not sure about the prettier ;P
20:29	bbloom	Bronsa: how is simply removing some sigils not prettier?
20:29	arrdem	bbloom: I don't think it's that trivial... remember the single op representation is [:keyword [] ..] and (seq? []) is definitely true.
20:29	bbloom	,(seq? []) ;nope
20:29	clojurebot	false
20:30	arrdem	why do I even bother..
20:30	arrdem	shrug. not the way I would have expected that to work. okay.
20:31	bbloom	~colls
20:31	clojurebot	colls is http://www.brainonfire.net/files/seqs-and-colls/main.html
20:32	Bronsa	arrdem: you're thinking of seqable? which is not even in core unfortunately
20:32	Bronsa	bbloom: ah nevermind I get what you're saying now
20:33	Bronsa	bbloom: so the way it would work is, -emit would output nested bytecode and then flatten it before passing it to the bytecode interpreter
20:33	bbloom	Bronsa: yup
20:33	bbloom	and as a bonus, the whole thing becomes lazy
20:34	Bronsa	bbloom: not too sure if that'd be a feature we'd care about
20:35	Bronsa	bytecode always needs to be emitted, being it generated lazily only adds overhead
20:35	bbloom	Bronsa: won't hurt anything
20:37	Bronsa	https://github.com/clojure/core.async/commit/4b06327455d993930a121db7ecfadc6359a23e95 looks like Rich forgot to commit this `transformer` function
20:40	arrdem	Bronsa: hum... I guess this means (emit) should be AST -> (Seq Class) and then do (doseq [c classes] (load-class! (class->bytecode c)))
20:40	arrdem	which coincidentally is what I was looking at for Oxcart :D
20:40	arrdem	rather than just injecting classes in-place when they are generated..
20:43	Bronsa	;; (The hairier macro-character definitions, for #\# and #\`, are
20:43	Bronsa	;; defined elsewhere, in their own source files.)
20:43	Bronsa	great I love searching for files
20:44	Bronsa	arrdem: Class being java.lang.Class or "class"?
20:44	arrdem	Bronsa: class AST
20:45	bbloom	Bronsa: where's that comment :-)
20:45	Bronsa	bbloom: sbcl/src/code/reader.lisp
20:45	Bronsa	backq.lisp is where ` is defined btw
20:46	Bronsa	arrdem: sounds reasonable, but I'm not 100% sure it's going to be that easy
20:46	Bronsa	arrdem: I'm worried about nested functions for example
20:47	arrdem	Bronsa: state monad or just a thread local atom. I'm kicking off a branch aimed at the latter.
20:47	Bronsa	bbloom: it's never been a very pleasant read
20:48	Bronsa	bbloom: reading through bits of the compiler made me realize how much not having implicit forward deps in clojure helps
20:49	brehaut	Bronsa: i believe F# explicitly forbids almost all forward deps they consider it so advantageous
20:50	bbloom	Bronsa: define before use is the only sane thing for non-mutually exclusive functions
20:50	brehaut	(theres a mutually recursive thing for stuff within the same module, and via interfacse with objects)
20:55	Bronsa	bbloom: so it looks like sbcl actually transforms `(~@'(1 2)) into `(1 2) at read time
20:56	Bronsa	being able to do that could help us for metadata at least
20:56	Bronsa	I could try doing something like that in tools.reader
20:57	bbloom	Bronsa: seriously, just get rid of the use of backquote in emit
20:57	bbloom	Bronsa: it should be a very straightforward change
20:58	Bronsa	bbloom: yeah yeah that was unrelated to tej, I'm already sold on getting rid of ` there
20:59	bbloom	Bronsa: i don't think it pays to complicate the reader with a very simple partial evaluation scheme
20:59	arrdem	bbloom: agreed. let the compiler do the partial evaluation.
21:00	Bronsa	bbloom: I've always had an issue with ` as it makes the output of macroexpand-1 barely readable
21:02	Bronsa	sbcl also uses backq-cons and friends rather than cons so that the printer can output using `,@ rather than printing the expansion
21:03	bbloom	huh?
21:03	Bronsa	bbloom: * '`(,@x y) ;=> `(,@X Y)
21:04	Bronsa	backq-cons is just defined as (def back-cons cons)
21:04	Bronsa	it's only as a hint for the printer
21:05	bbloom	i get it, but seems weird that it would print that way as if nothing happened
21:05	bbloom	,'`(~@x y)
21:05	clojurebot	(clojure.core/seq (clojure.core/concat x (clojure.core/list (quote sandbox/y))))
21:06	Bronsa	bbloom: you'd really rather read a macroexpand output consisting of nested calls to seq/concat/list rather than some ~ and ~@ thrown here and there?
21:06	tuft	tried to have the OOP/FP debate with a new colleague today -- need to sharpen up my arguments =)
21:06	bbloom	no i just don't understand what cons has to do with it
21:07	tuft	doing a lot of FP here, but it's a hybrid language (Python), so it's a discussion every time someone new comes
21:07	Bronsa	bbloom: oh suppose ` in clojure wasn't emitting (clojure.core/seq ..) but (backtick-seq ..) with backtick-seq defined as seq
21:07	Bronsa	evaluation is the same but when the form gets printed, the printer can check whether op is one of the backtick ops and pretty print it
21:07	bbloom	yeah, i get that, but then the printer is lying to you... it's telling you that it's got syntax-quote, but it's really got backtick-seq
21:08	bbloom	two different expressions shouldn't have the same printed representation
21:08	bbloom	although i guess that happens plenty
21:08	bbloom	,(int 5)
21:08	clojurebot	5
21:08	bbloom	,(long 5)
21:08	clojurebot	5
21:08	Bronsa	,(symbol "String")
21:08	clojurebot	String
21:08	bbloom	grumble grumble
21:09	bbloom	can't trust the damn printer at all
21:09	Bronsa	^that caused me&Andy a lot of troubles while debugging t.a.j once
21:09	Bronsa	bbloom: I suppose there is a flag on the cl printer to turn off the backtick pretty printer
21:10	Bronsa	yes the printer is lying to me, but I really don't care about what ` expands to
21:10	Bronsa	that's an implementation detail to me, I just want to see how the expression is shaped
21:11	bbloom	until you have some piece of code that tries to deconstruct a backtick form, and you're pulling your hair out b/c testing if the symbol = 'syntax-quote doesn't work b/c you should be testing for back-cons
21:12	bbloom	speaking of silly things like that
21:12	bbloom	,`syntax-quote
21:12	clojurebot	sandbox/syntax-quote
21:12	bbloom	,`unquote
21:12	clojurebot	clojure.core/unquote
21:12	bbloom	,(let [x 1] `(clojure.core/unquote x))
21:12	clojurebot	1
21:12	Bronsa	bbloom: well we have metadata, just output ^:backtick clojure.core/seq rather than clojure.core/seq :P
21:12	bbloom	that's more reasonable...
21:13	bbloom	still, damn lying reader :-P
21:13	Shayanjm	hmm
21:19	Shayanjm	I'm trying to do the following data transformation but having serious troubles constructing my reduce function...
21:19	Shayanjm	https://gist.github.com/shayanjm/054cdeb380bf2daf4b2b
21:19	Shayanjm	any pointers would be very helpful
21:23	arrdem	Shayanjm: (for [tokens token-sequence] [(->> tokens (map first) (interpose " ") (reduce str)) (first (second tokens))])
21:23	arrdem	oops. flip the first and second
21:24	arrdem	there may be something faster than the (reduce str), but I don't know it offhand.
21:27	mange	I think (apply str ...) is a bit faster than (reduce str ...).
21:28	bbloom	apply str is definitely faster
21:28	bbloom	reduce str will be quadratic
21:28	arrdem	bbloom: StringBuilder backed?
21:28	bbloom	variadic str uses a string builder, and will be amortized linear
21:28	arrdem	yep.
21:28	arrdem	do that then.
21:29	bbloom	it's kinda a shame that (into "" ...) doesn't work :-)
21:29	arrdem	:P
21:29	Shayanjm	so (for [tokens token-sequence] [(->> tokens (map first) (interpose " ") (apply str)) (first (second tokens))])?
21:30	arrdem	Shayanjm: flip the first and second. it needs to be (second (first))
21:30	arrdem	Shayanjm: right, because that's pulling the first (token, value) pair and taking the value of it.
21:30	Shayanjm	Right right
21:30	Shayanjm	so I guess a follow up question: is there a way to do this in a single reduce function?
21:31	Shayanjm	instead of using a for loop, etc.
21:31	arrdem	well... for isn't a loop. it's a sequence comprehension that's lazy.
21:31	arrdem	so it's better than reduce :P
21:31	Shayanjm	:o
21:31	Shayanjm	you just blew my mind
21:31	arrdem	:D
21:31	Shayanjm	I've been avoiding using for this whole time for that reason
21:31	Shayanjm	"nah for's probably not lazy. Probably would be way less performant than reduce"
21:31	Shayanjm	lol thank you so much
21:31	arrdem	http://grimoire.arrdem.com/1.6.0/clojure.core/for/
21:31	amalloy	Shayanjm: it's pretty easy to test that theory
21:32	Frozenlock	'for' is awesome http://programming-puzzler.blogspot.ca/2013/03/logic-programming-is-overrated.html
21:32	amalloy	,(first (for [x (range)] (+ 100 x)))
21:32	clojurebot	100
21:32	arrdem	Frozenlock: haha love that post
21:32	amalloy	tada, must be lazy!
21:33	Frozenlock	It took me a while to notice the (range) in there
21:34	Frozenlock	... which is why it must be lazy.... for those even slower than me :-p
21:57	cespare	If I change from plain jetty to http-kit, does that change/break usage of dynamic vars?
21:57	cespare	given that dynamic vars are thread-local and http-kit is presumably multiplexing multiple requests onto a single thread?
22:41	justin_smith	cespare: yeah, you'll have to avoid using dynamic vars mostly with http-kit
22:41	justin_smith	which is for the best, I think
22:42	justin_smith	you can just put whatever data you need for that request into the request map intself
22:42	justin_smith	(if it is not localized in lifetime enough to be a local in one let block, of course)
22:45	justin_smith	you already have the request map as a per-request data store, you don't need to also assume that a per-thread data store will also map seamlessly to per-request (this is ugly even if you aren't using http-kit)
22:51	bsima	Are there any API docs for the enlive library? I'm doing some web scraping…
23:02	ddellacosta	bsima: you're probably best of digging through the code itself, in my experience. Other than that there is just the main README and tutorials linked to from there (https://github.com/cgrand/enlive)
23:02	ddellacosta	*best off
23:03	bsima	Yeah I've decided that's what I'll do. The code is a tiny bit messy though… maybe api docs will be a future pull request of mine…
23:13	hellofunk	is there a more idiomatic/efficient way to write (or (= t 2) (= t 33) (= t 56)) for checking if a value is one of three possibilities?
23:13	technomancy	,(#{2 33 56} 2)
23:13	clojurebot	2
23:13	Frozenlock	nooooo, I wanted to be the one to answer that!
23:13	hellofunk	well now how about that
23:14	technomancy	Frozenlock: learn dvorak and type fast like meeeeee
23:14	technomancy	(never mind that none of those were letters)
23:15	hellofunk	technomancy are you referring to the new world symphony?
23:15	Frozenlock	Is there a difference in speed for (some #{2} [2 33 56])?
23:15	amalloy	Frozenlock: well, do you think there should be?
23:16	Frozenlock	no...
23:17	amalloy	of course, if they're both literals it's O(0), because you could just reduce to either true or false
23:17	amalloy	but try making the set of numbers to compare against larger, say a million elements, and imagine someone passed it to you
23:18	hellofunk	(some.. ) will bail on the first match, right? so out of a million, if the 10th matches, only 10 were looked at
23:18	hellofunk	does the set as function behave that way as well?
23:19	Frozenlock	,(time ((set (range 1000000)) 2))
23:19	clojurebot	eval service is offline
23:19	amalloy	like, i'm imagining (let [candidates (vec (range 1e6))] (fn [x] (some #{x} candidates))) vs (let [candidates (set (range 1e6))] (fn [x] (candidates x)))
23:20	hellofunk	amalloy my guess is that the some.. operation is better performant
23:20	amalloy	hellofunk: no, it is terrible
23:20	Frozenlock	Really? In my repl the 'some' is much, much faster
23:20	amalloy	if the thing you're looking for is the last element, you have to look at every possible item in the seq
23:21	hellofunk	amalloy so how does the set-as-function do it, not also looking at every possible item?
23:21	amalloy	sets are hashtables
23:21	amalloy	it hashes the input, looks in the place it should be, and returns true if it was there
23:21	hellofunk	amalloy ah, there like an optimized tree behind the scenes and handled thusly rather than sequentially
23:21	amalloy	(the algorithm is more complicated than that because of persistent data structures, but that's an idea)
23:21	Frozenlock	(time (some #{1000000} (range 1000000))) ---> 166ms
23:22	Frozenlock	(time ((set (range 1000000)) 2)) ----> 1109ms
23:22	amalloy	Frozenlock: you're timing the wrong thing
23:22	Frozenlock	the time to make the set?
23:22	hellofunk	should time something late in the sequence, not early
23:22	amalloy	yes
23:22	amalloy	take the two functions i defined above
23:22	amalloy	def them to via-set and via-vec
23:22	amalloy	and time them on looking up (dec 1e6)
23:23	Frozenlock	okay... but why would we already have the set ready?
23:24	amalloy	Frozenlock: because you're planning to compare against it often, in some app that loves to check whether x is either 1 or 5 or 22 or whatever
23:24	amalloy	the original example was (or (= t 2) (= t 33) (= t 56))
23:24	amalloy	it you want to look up against that often, of course you'll define a set #{2 33 56} once, and then use it over and over
23:24	ddellacosta_	,(println "test")
23:24	clojurebot	test\n
23:24	amalloy	and of course if you only want to look up once, who cares what's fast
23:25	Frozenlock	Makes sense.
23:25	ddellacosta	,(println "test")
23:25	clojurebot	eval service is offline
23:25	ddellacosta	Frozenlock: you can't use clojurebot either?
23:25	amalloy	,1
23:25	clojurebot	1
23:26	Frozenlock	Tho I might have taken for granted that (#{...} x) is faster than 'some' for all cases, but it really depends if you are always doing the same comparison.
23:26	Frozenlock	ddellacosta: no. Clojurebot hates us I suppose.
23:26	ddellacosta	Frozenlock: well, for me it rather seems that hiredman hates me: https://github.com/hiredman/clojurebot/blob/master/clojurebot-facts/src/clojurebot/facts.clj#L72
23:26	amalloy	Frozenlock: using a literal set is never going to be fast
23:27	ddellacosta	Frozenlock: but not sure why that's true for you. Maybe he has blocked you too randomly and hasn't committed it. Ridiculous.
23:27	amalloy	because you have to build the set before using it each time, which takes linear time
23:27	Frozenlock	ddellacosta: loool
23:27	hellofunk	amalloy unless you build it just once
23:27	amalloy	hellofunk: right, i meant a literal set inline
23:27	amalloy	obviously if you let it, as in my example, and use it often, that's fast
23:28	hellofunk	there's nothing like a good let over lambda
23:29	hellofunk	ddellacosta aren't you getting hit by a major typhoon like right now?
23:29	ddellacosta	hellofunk: yeah, supposedly...we'll see!
23:29	hellofunk	saw it on the news
23:30	hellofunk	seems like every year they say "the biggest one yet!"
23:31	hellofunk	amalloy where did you find your prowess, were you born programming?
23:35	hellofunk	i suppose that sounded rhetorical yet it was not.
23:37	hellofunk	if there was an equivalent to practicing musical scales for programming, i'd think a few of you did it for many hours a day for many years, from the insight that's shared in here
23:38	Shayanjm	No kidding
23:40	amalloy	hanging out in irc and on stackoverflow and answering questions is a big help. even if you get all the answers wrong for months, doing the research to formulate a plausible answer, and then being corrected by someone who knows more, is a great way to expand your knowledge
23:40	arrdem	TL;DR while getting corrected by amalloy may be bad for the ego, it's good for the code :P
23:40	hellofunk	amalloy it's hard for me to imagine you getting all the answers wrong for months :)
23:42	amalloy	here's a short article about eric lippert - the advice made a big impact on me: http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=1919436
23:42	amalloy	arrdem: the tldr is actually that i started learning clojure by: learning the absolute basics, then hanging out in #clojure and listening, and trying to repeat answers i'd heard already
23:42	technomancy	hanging out on IRC you just get exposed to ambient information
23:43	amalloy	there's nothing magical about it
23:43	technomancy	for instance I've never done cljs but I can still tell when people make certain common mistakes
23:43	technomancy	same with vim
23:43	amalloy	right, same here
23:43	arrdem	amalloy: funny to hear you say that. I'd say the same with you, technomancy and the rest of the lurkers as primary sources
23:44	amalloy	sure. technomancy has been around longer than i have, of course - i was learning especially from him, hiredman, and chouser, iirc
23:44	hellofunk	inspiring
23:45	amalloy	plus i learned some fun tricks by reading others' 4clojure solutions
23:45	technomancy	true fact: when we hired hiredman there was some reluctance because we were afraid he'd have less time to help people on IRC
23:45	hellofunk	4clojure is amazing stuff man. i think it's the single best tool in becoming good at clojure (and I have a long way to go)
23:46	amalloy	i'm glad it's still finding new people to help
23:46	hellofunk	amalloy i hope that site doesn't go anywhere (and its database of answers)
23:46	amalloy	hellofunk: i don't have any plans to take it down
23:47	hellofunk	amalloy i'd love to see just an athology of sorts of all the questions and the answers by the top 100 users for each question. that is better than any book.
23:48	technomancy	someone should do machine learning on the logs
23:48	amalloy	hmmm
23:48	technomancy	maybe ... someone who is looking to learn clojure
23:48	amalloy	technomancy: devn did that, or something like it
23:48	technomancy	oh, that's right
23:48	amalloy	http://getclojure.com/
23:48	technomancy	did it classify the questions and rank them?
23:48	hellofunk	as I've gone through the site, i've taken pdf exports of certain questions answers that were thought provoking, but it's time-consuming to do that for all of them
23:48	arrdem	(inc technomancy) ;; I had the link to getclojure months ago and lost it
23:48	lazybot	⇒ 118
23:49	technomancy	appears to be borked
23:49	arrdem	hork and bork.. totally technical terms
23:49	hellofunk	i cannot tell what getclojure is supposed to be/do
23:49	amalloy	huh, that's a shame. he should have written it in a more stable language, like php
23:49	arrdem	amalloy: but then his immutable dates would have a modify method...
23:50	amalloy	hellofunk: you were supposed to enter functions you're interested in, and it would search the #clojure logs for example uses of it
23:50	hellofunk	ah