#clojure – 2014-07-06

2014-07-06

00:01	ddellacosta_	Janiczek: try instead [purnam.test :refer [fact]]
00:02	ddellacosta_	Janiczek: or I suppose that error indicates you could use a list? I dunno, I usually use :refer rather than :only
00:08	Janiczek	ddellacosta_: thanks. it was actually cljsbuild not knowing what to with :use without :only a few rows above! :)
00:08	Janiczek	it's kind of annoying cljs doesn't know anything about :refer :all or use (all)
00:09	ddellacosta_	Janiczek: hmm, I'd call that a feature not a bug--dumping everything willy-nilly into your namespace is not a great idea generally speaking.
00:10	Janiczek	probably yeah - just the (ns) form now feels bloated
00:10	ddellacosta_	Janiczek: I'm pretty sure :use has been depricated exactly for that reason.
00:11	ddellacosta_	Janiczek: yeah, that's the tradeoff. I do have some files which start with an entire page of require statements. Not great I guess. :-(
00:11	ddellacosta_	Janiczek: but, on the flip side, easy to figure out what has been required and from where.
00:45	Fare	no, apparently I don't understand how dependencies work
03:03	Frozenlock	cricket
04:37	unsafeCoerce	Deraen
04:38	unsafeCoerce	Derander*
04:38	unsafeCoerce	what is your opinion on this whole persistentvector thing
05:44	m_m__	Hi. Is there a possibility to mare reduce on range ? I need to sum all numbers from 1 to 1000.
05:45	hyPiRion	mare reduce?
05:45	hyPiRion	You can do ##(reduce + (range 1 (inc 1000)))
05:45	lazybot	⇒ 500500
05:47	m_m__	hyPiRion: But why i cannot make something like that: (reduce + (range(1000)))?
05:47	hyPiRion	(range 1000) works fine
05:48	hyPiRion	but it includes 0
05:48	hyPiRion	(and not includes 1000)
05:49	m_m__	strange...I had an error but now everything is ok. Thank you.
05:58	_KryDos_	Hello. I’m trying to learn Clojure and I got the problem when I’m trying to compare two vectors. [0 0 0 0] and [0 0 0 0] - in repl it true but in the program it’s false :( Could you please help me. http://pastebin.com/BLVkPr6r - this is my function. Do you see «if». I’m trying to compare here are two vectors but I got the false. I’m sure that «opcode» contains [0 0 0 0]. Could you please explain me why this happening?
06:01	_KryDos_	Also as you can see I’ve added two println functions to check the type of the «opcode» and «empty-opcde». There is same type.
06:04	m_m__	Is there anything wrong with: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/5d769d07b85d4305844d i have error that I cant canst LazySeq to Ifn.
06:07	spradnyesh	_KryDos_: i find them equal (true) in the program too
06:08	spradnyesh	_KryDos_: can you tell me "how" you are invoking the function?
06:10	_KryDos_	spradnyesh: wow. it’s great. I’m invoking it as it works in lisp… via «(«. as first argument in list. Or you mean something another? Anyway here is line where I invoke this function - http://pastebin.com/cXuGJ7zG
06:10	_KryDos_	spradnyesh: get-opcode function returns list with 4 elements
06:11	_KryDos_	spradnyesh: oops. not list. vector I mean
06:11	_KryDos_	spradnyesh: I’m using (into [] opcode) as return value of the get-opcode funciton
06:13	spradnyesh	_KryDos_: equality in clojure looks at values (inside collection) and not at the collection itself, so (= [1 2 3] '(1 2 3)) => true
06:13	_KryDos_	spradnyesh ahh. wow. thank you. I didn’t know that
06:13	spradnyesh	_KryDos_: what is output of "(get-opcode rom-data registers)"
06:14	spradnyesh	,(= [1 2 3] '(1 2 3))
06:14	clojurebot	true
06:14	_KryDos_	spradnyesh: it’s a vector with 4 elements
06:14	_KryDos_	spradnyesh: I will paste the get-opcode funcion… one second...
06:15	spradnyesh	can you try doing "(println opcode empty-opcode)" just before your if and see the output? maybe they are different structures/values
06:15	_KryDos_	spradnyesh: here is - get-opcode.
06:15	_KryDos_	spradnyesh: sure. I will try
06:15	_KryDos_	spradnyesh: thank you.
06:16	spradnyesh	when i tried "(execute-opcode [0 0 0 0] 1)" it went "inside" the "then" part of if, and my repl exited (with all my unsaved state :( )
06:17	_KryDos_	spradnyesh: http://pastebin.com/BF8HnygW - here is the output of the (println opcode empty-opcode).
06:17	_KryDos_	spradnyesh: seems like it equal.
06:18	spradnyesh	_KryDos_: yes, they are same values
06:18	spradnyesh	_KryDos_: try replacing the System.exit w/ some println
06:18	spradnyesh	how are you invoking the program? via repl? or from command line?
06:18	_KryDos_	spradnyesh: I know that get-opcode returned the lazy-seq and now I add the (into [] …) function for the get-opcode.
06:19	_KryDos_	spradnyesh: if I replace the system.exit println doesn’t work. «else» block is working.
06:19	_KryDos_	spradnyesh: it’s a magic for me :(
06:20	_KryDos_	spradnyesh: «into» function works well with lazy-seq?
06:20	spradnyesh	_KryDos_: you mean "(println "Executing opcode => " opcode "...")" gets executed?
06:20	_KryDos_	spradnyesh: sure
06:20	_KryDos_	spradnyesh: oops. It’s executed but it’s not a else block
06:20	spradnyesh	_KryDos_: ???
06:20	lazybot	spradnyesh: Yes, 100% for sure.
06:20	_KryDos_	spradnyesh: what you mean?)
06:21	spradnyesh	_KryDos_: i'm confused. you said "sure", then you said "oops...., not else block"
06:21	_KryDos_	spradnyesh: wait a second. I will show you…
06:21	spradnyesh	_KryDos_: did the "then" part get executed?
06:22	spradnyesh	_KryDos_: how are you invoking the program? via repl? or from command line?
06:22	_KryDos_	spradnyesh: «then» part executed. «else» part doesn’t. «Executing opcode => …» it’s not in else block
06:22	_KryDos_	spradnyesh: via command line. using «lein run»
06:22	spradnyesh	ahh, i understand
06:23	spradnyesh	_KryDos_: your control is coming inside the "then" clause (as correctly expected). and then your command exits (because of the System.exit), and you thought that the "then" part wasn't getting executed
06:23	spradnyesh	you see?
06:24	_KryDos_	oh… I confuse you again :( «then» part doesn’t work with [0 0 0 0] [0 0 0 0] but «else» part works. Please excuse me :(
06:25	_KryDos_	oh my god. And again I confused you :( with [0 0 0 0] [0 0 0 0] if statement returns «true» but with «opcode» «empyt-opcode» it return false.
06:25	spradnyesh	wait, wait
06:25	_KryDos_	for me [0 0 0 0] [0 0 0 0] and opcode empty-opcode it’s a same
06:26	spradnyesh	_KryDos_: wait wait
06:26	_KryDos_	waiting :)
06:26	spradnyesh	_KryDos_: i read your code again; your "if" block does NOT contain the "else" part. it contains only the then part (try matching/counting parenthesis again)
06:27	spradnyesh	_KryDos_: replace your if code w/ this:
06:27	spradnyesh	(if (= empty-opcode opcode) (println "match") (println "does NOT match"))
06:27	spradnyesh	and see what is output
06:27	_KryDos_	spradnyesh: yes. it’s true. But when I add the else block it get executed
06:27	_KryDos_	spradnyesh: else required params?
06:27	_KryDos_	required parameter*
06:28	spradnyesh	_KryDos_: how about
06:28	spradnyesh	(if (= empty-opcode opcode)
06:28	spradnyesh	(println opcode empty-opcode "match")
06:28	spradnyesh	(println opcode empty-opcode "does NOT match"))
06:28	_KryDos_	spradnyesh: can I use only (if (= empty-opcode opcode) (println match))?
06:28	spradnyesh	_KryDos_: no, else is optional; but i'm not able to understand why the control is not going inside if
06:28	spradnyesh	trying to debug
06:31	_KryDos_	spradnyesh: here is output with a little debug info - http://pastebin.com/tYCeBDfE
06:32	_KryDos_	http://pastebin.com/YbFTD3fk - it’s a same but with better formating.
06:32	_KryDos_	better format* excuse me
06:32	spradnyesh	_KryDos_: i'm sorry, i don't know what is going wrong here
06:33	_KryDos_	spradnyesh: me too :( thank you very much for you help and time :)
06:33	_KryDos_	s/you/your/
06:43	visof	hello
06:44	zeebrah	i have a simple interpreter that is written as a tail recursive loop. i'm working on a swing gui debugger for it mainly to be able to step through the interpreter one instruction at a time. not sure what clojure/java primitive is appropriate for mediating between the user clicking next and evaluating the next instruction
06:44	visof	http://pastebin.com/fhaxEZcA i got this error msg when using orientdb client
06:44	visof	how can i fox this?
06:44	visof	fix*
06:45	_KryDos_	visof: are you sure about 127.0.0.1:2424 address?
06:47	visof	_KryDos_: tcp6 0 0 :::2424 :::* LISTEN 16751/java only tcp6
06:48	visof	_KryDos_: how can enable tcp v4 ?
06:49	_KryDos_	visof: I don’t know. How about 2480 port for tcp v4?
06:49	visof	_KryDos_: also tcp6 0 0 :::2480
07:41	m_m__	After 4 years in Java i thought that there is nothing better and faster in development there python. After 3 years in Python i have found something faster...thank you clojure!
08:32	igorw	hello, I ran into an edge case with core.logic's disequality that seems contradictory to me
08:32	igorw	https://gist.github.com/igorw/06cffdef743fbe97e477
08:33	igorw	it there any explanation for this? or is it a bug?
10:49	wink	igorw: unrelated to that problem: too bad I don't have much time right now, but really cool stuff you did lately
11:54	Shayanjm	Is it bad to use eval in macros?
11:54	Shayanjm	I know in most other languages, using eval is one of the deadly sins.
11:56	TimMc	Shayanjm: It usually means you are doing something wrong, yes.
11:57	Shayanjm	I'm trying to build a macro that takes an atom as an arg, and runs another function based on the name of that atom
11:58	Shayanjm	i.e: (update-all atom) => (do (update-atom-api atom) (update-sentiments atom))
11:58	Shayanjm	so if 'atom' was actually 'atomname', it would be 'update-atomname-api atomname'
11:59	TimMc	The main problem with that is code readability.
12:00	TimMc	Any time you are building a var name from pieces (either to define or reference it) you're asking to have the most impressive curses attached to your name a year down the road.
12:00	Shayanjm	TimMc: Yeah the reason I'm doing it this way is because I'm interfacing with a number of APIs that return data in different formats
12:00	Shayanjm	so having a 'general' (update-api) function is out
12:01	Shayanjm	so I'm using the convention of <atomname> and update-<atomname>-api
12:01	Shayanjm	to differentiate between the various services
12:01	Shayanjm	https://www.refheap.com/724ab95f30e6750c4f47737d0
12:02	TimMc	To me, having non-greppable var names is worse than using eval in a macro. :-)
12:03	Shayanjm	TimMc: Internally in the macro? should I be using different names for the vars?
12:03	ddellacosta_	Shayanjm: can't you just return a list, and call resolve on the symbol?
12:03	radix	Does that really need eval anyway?
12:04	Shayanjm	I have 0 idea. Very very new to clojure. Very likely i'm doing this incorrectly
12:04	ddellacosta_	Shayanjm: doesn't need the do either as far as I can tell
12:04	Shayanjm	ddellacosta_: I added the do because I needed to add another function inside the block
12:04	Fare	I must do something obviously wrong with my project.clj, but I have no clue what
12:04	ddellacosta_	Shayanjm: ah okay
12:04	ddellacosta_	Shayanjm: but I'm with radix, I don't see why you need eval here
12:04	bbloom	Shayanjm: you definitely do not need to call eval in there
12:04	Fare	so I have project A, called leijure/delta-position — I do lein install, it creates a .jar, so far so good
12:04	bbloom	Shayanjm: but let's rewind a bit
12:05	ddellacosta_	Shayanjm: I think you just need resolve
12:05	Shayanjm	sure
12:05	bbloom	Shayanjm: the real source of your problem is that you have so many atoms that you feel a syntax need to deal with them all
12:05	Shayanjm	yep :\
12:05	bbloom	Shayanjm: most likely what you really want is just a single atom with a map in it
12:05	Fare	then in project B, I have a project.clj that has [leijure/delta-position "0.1.0-SNAPSHOT"] in my :dependencies, and a symlink to the delta-position directory in checkouts/
12:05	bbloom	then all you need is (swap! some-atom update-in [:some-key] some-fn and some args)
12:06	Shayanjm	bbloom: sure, that would probably make more sense. Out of curiousity, why that approach vs. multiple refs?
12:06	Fare	but it says Exception in thread "main" java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate leijure/delta_position__init.class or leijure/delta_position.clj on classpath: , compiling:(lexer.clj:1:1)
12:06	bbloom	Shayanjm: are you doing any actual concurrency?
12:07	Shayanjm	bbloom: Yeah. There will need to be certain guarantees that information is 'up to date'
12:07	Shayanjm	arguably I could just do it in a single atom, but that would be a HUGE swap!
12:07	Shayanjm	ultimately this project will be interfacing with some 30 or so different APIs
12:07	Shayanjm	and scraping data from all of the websites for analysis
12:08	Shayanjm	so the two most fragile parts of it are: handling the data from the different APIs in a unified manner, and dealing with scraping
12:08	ddellacosta_	Shayanjm: I don't fully get what you're doing, but if you are only updating bits and pieces at a time it's not a big deal to keep it all in one atom regardless
12:08	Shayanjm	the whole scope of the project is a newsreader + intelligence
12:08	bbloom	Shayanjm: refs are only really useful when you have a bunch of different threads operating on subsets of the total dataset where there's small, but non-zero overlap between each thread's working set
12:08	Shayanjm	ah I see
12:09	bbloom	Shayanjm: if each thread is operating totally independently, you can have one atom per thread, or one global atom, or one extra thread doing aggregation off queues from the worker threads
12:09	bbloom	don't try to optimize, try to get it working first
12:09	Shayanjm	Sure that's fair. If I wanted to go down the single atom avenue
12:09	Shayanjm	my question is: how would I handle the various API interfaces?
12:09	bbloom	it's easier to go from 1 global atom to some more complex arrangement, than it will be to go from some complex arrangement to a different complex arrangement that actually solves your problem
12:10	bbloom	i have no idea what you mean
12:10	Shayanjm	i.e: API1 returns data in a {:result {:data data :url url :thing thing}} format
12:10	Shayanjm	API2 might return data in a {:webURL url :webThing thing...} etc. format
12:10	Shayanjm	ultimately they're providing the same/similar data
12:11	Shayanjm	but I would have to know precisely how to identify the various pieces of data
12:11	Shayanjm	and I'd have to do that separately for all the different APIs
12:11	bbloom	how does that have anything to do with atoms?
12:11	bbloom	(defn api1 [& args] (your-transform-fn (some-common-code-path ...)))
12:12	Shayanjm	So the swap shouldn't actually happen inside api1?
12:12	Shayanjm	I transform all of the data from all of the APIs into a usable format, and then swap! after?
12:12	bbloom	you haven't explained at all what you're trying to do to any degree in which anybody can provide actual advice to you
12:13	Shayanjm	Okay let me be clearer
12:13	bbloom	Shayanjm: that's exactly what i told you days ago, isn't it? avoid swap!s, prefer pure functions
12:13	Shayanjm	bbloom: sure, which is what I did for the single API access for New York Times.
12:13	Shayanjm	That gets slightly more complex when you're coordinating >5 API accesses and scraping for all URLs
12:13	Shayanjm	anyway
12:14	bbloom	i'm not sure where that complexity suddenly creates need for state in your data-transforming functions
12:14	Fare	how do I debug a project.clj and/or jar installation?
12:14	Shayanjm	https://github.com/shayanjm/Sentimental/tree/develop
12:14	Shayanjm	That's the repo. the project as it stands right now just receives a set of titles, urls, and abstracts from the new york times newswire API
12:15	Shayanjm	it grabs the URL of each article separately, scrapes the article-content, and then passes it to a sentiment analyzer function
12:15	Shayanjm	which returns a collection of 'sentiments' (integer from 0-4) for each sentence in the article
12:15	Shayanjm	a mean of each collection is then calculated and stored in the same atom. This is all displayed on a webpage of sorts
12:17	Shayanjm	The next steps for the project are to integrate with more news outlet sources (the guardian, AP, etc.)
12:17	Shayanjm	and scope out of just sentiment analysis
12:17	Shayanjm	start grouping news articles by event/content, and provide more useful insights
12:17	Shayanjm	so ultimately, this will become a newsreader application that has some additional 'intelligence' tools
12:18	bbloom	so why does adding more apis make this harder? you have some in memory database in an atom, you do some transform, then you merge that data in to the atom
12:18	bbloom	write pure functions from scraped content -> sentiment results
12:18	bbloom	then write a pure function of database of results + new result -> new database of results
12:18	Shayanjm	Sure. I guess my mental block is figuring out what a pure function is in terms of API access
12:19	bbloom	content -> result
12:19	Shayanjm	should I figure out some way to write one 'fuzzy' API transform tool?
12:19	Shayanjm	and make it as general as humanly possible?
12:19	bbloom	no
12:19	bbloom	the exact opposite of that
12:19	Shayanjm	or write a bunch of separate transform tools for each API i'm integrating?
12:19	bbloom	you're thinking too hard and trying to do too many parts at once
12:19	bbloom	forget the web server for a moment
12:19	bbloom	forget the atom for a moment
12:19	i-blis	Fare: jars should be in your .m2 after `lein install`
12:19	Shayanjm	sure.
12:19	bbloom	scrape the page once, save the results in a file
12:20	bbloom	in your repl, slurp in that file, test a function on it that does the analysis
12:20	bbloom	once you have the analysis working, write down the format in a text file
12:20	bbloom	make a note of it for yourself
12:20	bbloom	then go do the same thing again for a 2nd api
12:20	rau	bbloom: Please stop abusing your return key, you daft loser.
12:21	bbloom	Shayanjm: then figure out how to glue those things to your web service & the scraper later
12:22	Shayanjm	hmmk
12:23	Fare	what's .m2 ? how am I supposed to put it there? I thought (from the lein tutorial) that it was enough to symlink my dependency in checkouts/
12:23	bbloom	apparently rau is a bot that just tells people to stop pressing return....
12:24	Shayanjm	classic
12:24	Shayanjm	thanks for the help bbloom
12:24	Shayanjm	I'll think about this a little more and probably come back here with the solution
12:24	i-blis	Fare: the jar should land automatically in $HOME/.m2 (your local Maven repository cache) after `lein install`
12:25	Shayanjm	bbloom: last question, is it a bad thing to assume a certain structure for an atom?
12:25	bbloom	Shayanjm: what do you mean "assume a certain structure"?
12:25	Shayanjm	I'm like, not sure where to draw the line between 'too general' and 'pure' functions
12:25	bbloom	Shayanjm: your data will have some structure, your functions will operate on that structure
12:25	bbloom	welcome to programming
12:25	bbloom	not sure what you expected :-)
12:26	Shayanjm	bbloom: Just needed a definitive answer one way or another.
12:26	TimMc	I'm not sure it's a meaningful question.
12:26	Fare	I see a ~/.m2/repository/leijure/delta-position
12:27	TimMc	Is there a different way you could ask it?
12:28	i-blis	Fare: once you did `lein install`, you need only add a line to the :dependencies of the other project
12:29	dbasch	Shayanjm: you decide what structure you want your atom to have, e.g. a map of maps
12:29	Fare	I added it, but it says: Could not locate leijure/delta_position__init.class or leijure/delta_position.clj on classpath:
12:29	i-blis	Fare: you see it, meaning it is locally installed ; now, treat it as any dependency :)
12:29	Fare	my dependencies include [leijure/delta-position "0.1.0-SNAPSHOT"]
12:30	Fare	but I still get Could not locate leijure/delta_position__init.class or leijure/delta_position.clj on classpath:
12:30	Shayanjm	Yeah okay basically I guess my question was: "Should I be building functions that can work on ANYTHING (or most things), or should I be designing stuff directly in the code as you do in other languages"
12:30	OscarZ_	Shayanjm: can you have transform functions from those custom APIs to a common structure and then have a single analysis function that understands the common structure?
12:30	Shayanjm	OscarZ_: Yeah its looking like that's what I'm going to be doing
12:31	i-blis	Fare: do you have a directory named 0.1.0-SNAPSHOP inside ~/.m2/repository/leijure/delta-position?
12:31	Shayanjm	I'll just integrate one API at a time then
12:32	OscarZ_	in Java you'd probably have some interface for those parsers that understand the custom format and then different implementations for each of them.. I guess protocols could be used for that type of thing in Clojure?
12:32	i-blis	Fare: remove whatever symlink you add in checkouts btw
12:33	bbloom	Shayanjm: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_three_(computer_programming)
12:34	bbloom	Shayanjm: you will not be equipped to write general code until you've written the specific code three times
12:34	bbloom	Shayanjm: do the three APIs by hand, then maybe you'll see some commonalities you can abstract
12:34	clojurebot	I don't understand.
12:34	Shayanjm	ah I see
12:34	Shayanjm	that does help quite a bit actually
12:34	Shayanjm	thanks bbloom
12:34	bbloom	Shayanjm: you'll get to a better result more quickly than if you try to predict the outcome up front
12:34	OscarZ_	I'm a clojure newbie myself.. how is that type of thing generally done in Clojure.. is protocols somehow better or would you just have a function that takes a parser function etc..
12:35	Fare	same after removing the symlink in checkouts/
12:36	i-blis	Fare: what subdirs do you have in ~/.m2/repository/leijure/delta-position?
12:37	Shayanjm	bbloom: much appreciated. That helped me with my mental block on a proper clj fn development cycle hahaha
12:38	i-blis	Fare: and what message do you get when you `lein deps` in project B?
12:44	OscarZ_	Shayanjm: not sure if this is what you ment but maybe this answers your questions about those general/specific functions: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6016271/why-is-it-better-to-have-100-functions-operate-on-one-data-structure-than-10-fun
12:44	TimMc	bbloom: Solid advice. And I think that's why I err on the side of explicitness and redundancy at first.
12:44	bbloom	OscarZ_: i don't think that helps Shayanjm
12:46	bbloom	OscarZ_: he's not struggling with the design of a pool of components, he's struggling with complecting data transformation with stateful result aggregation with effectful network calls. he just needs to get some practice decomposing systems in to simpler parts before trying to glue them together
12:48	OscarZ_	yeah maybe i didnt understand what the problem is
12:49	bbloom	OscarZ_: his struggle to explain his problem was a hint to the problem that i just described :-)
12:52	Fare	i-blis, lein deps doesn't print anything (!)
12:53	OscarZ_	if you want to scrape stuff in parallel and then aggregate those results into the same result (atom?), whats a good way to do this sort of thing in Clojure? can you use core.async for that? I listened to some podcast about it
12:54	bbloom	OscarZ_: core.async would be one reasonable route
12:54	Fare	i-blis, ~/.m2/repository/leijure/delta-position/0.1.0-SNAPSHOT/
12:58	dbasch	Fare: try lein deps :tree
13:00	OscarZ_	hmm.. maybe ill try to make a small program like that to get an idea of core.async.. it seemed interesting, didnt understand much except that its supposed to feel like you're doing sync calls and the library does some magic with threads under the hood
13:00	Fare	dbasch: thanks, it prints all my transitive dependencies, including [leijure/delta-position "0.1.0-SNAPSHOT"]
13:01	Fare	is the issue one of :aot or some such?
13:02	Fare	(inc dbasch)
13:02	lazybot	⇒ 8
13:02	Fare	(inc i-blis )
13:02	lazybot	⇒ 1
13:07	koreth__	OscarZ_: If core.async doesn't seem like a good fit, also look into futures -- they are a bit less magical than core.async which may be a good thing or not depending on what you're after.
13:09	OscarZ_	koreth__: i was just thinking of learning a bit of core.async and whats it about with some small test app.. but maybe I should learn futures first before jumping into that stuff :)
13:10	i-blis	Fare: do you still get the error on missing classpath?
13:10	Fare	yes
13:11	i-blis	Fare: could you pastebin your project.clj?
13:11	dbasch	Fare: are the missing files inside the jar file?
13:11	Fare	the jar file ~/.m2/repository/leijure/delta-position/0.1.0-SNAPSHOT/delta-position-0.1.0-SNAPSHOT.jar does have leijure/delta-position.clj
13:11	Fare	oh, underscore vs dash!
13:12	i-blis	Fare: :)
13:12	Fare	so should I rename the directory delta_position ? or just rename everything deltaposition ?
13:14	bbloom	Fare: just _ in the directory should do it, - is fine in namespaces
13:14	Fare	what is the standard practice?
13:15	Fare	do people shun dashes in names because of this limitation?
13:15	bbloom	Fare: i don't think so
13:15	bbloom	i've been bitten by it myself tho
13:15	bbloom	,munge
13:15	clojurebot	#<core$munge clojure.core$munge@1c00791>
13:15	bbloom	,(munge 'some-name)
13:15	clojurebot	some_name
13:15	bbloom	,(munge 'some+name)
13:15	clojurebot	some_PLUS_name
13:16	bbloom	i think that function is also used for directoyr names
13:16	TimMc	&(namespace-munge "a.b-c_d/e")
13:16	lazybot	⇒ "a.b_c_d/e"
13:16	bbloom	or that one, shrug
13:17	TimMc	a.b-c turns into a/b_c.clj -- I don't think there are any other transformations.
13:17	TimMc	(Fun fact: The JVM accepts arbitrary unicode in class and package names!)
13:19	bbloom	lol, and clojure just decided to munge away, fun :-P
13:39	PigDude	how do you test core.async code? the test runner exits before my (go) blocks run
13:39	bbloom	PigDude: use <!!
13:40	PigDude	bbloom: it is not available in clojurescript
13:40	bbloom	PigDude: oh, then you need to do the same bullshit that other js test frameworks do
13:40	bbloom	PigDude: for example: http://api.qunitjs.com/expect/
13:40	PigDude	i'm not sure about bullshit, but i would prefer to write a single test and not one for cljs and one for clj
13:41	PigDude	there is no way to defer end of test run until some signal is given (from within a go block)?
13:41	bbloom	PigDude: asynchronous testing is hard. you can do all your testing asynchronously and write a small wrapper driver once per platform to reuse the tests in clj and cljs
13:41	PigDude	what is this qunit example?
13:41	bbloom	PigDude: read what it says
13:41	bbloom	their test runner has a timeout and waits that amount of time before reporting failure
13:42	PigDude	this offers another way to make my tests fail?
13:42	bbloom	tests in this style assert how many async assertions that they will create
13:42	PigDude	ick that's not a good approach, what if the test takes longer than that?
13:42	PigDude	i see that
13:42	bbloom	shrug
13:43	PigDude	so the answer appears to be to use cljs.core.async.test-helpers
13:43	whodidthis	https://github.com/cemerick/clojurescript.test
13:43	PigDude	thanks bbloom for looking though
13:43	PigDude	obscure stuff
13:45	lxsameer	Hey guys, is scala better than clojure in performance manner ?
13:45	bbloom	lxsameer: difference is far less than negligible for optimized code
13:46	bbloom	lxsameer: both are capable of getting effectively java-level performance from the jvm. both produce reasonably efficient naive code. don't believe anybody who tells you otherwise
13:47	lxsameer	bbloom: I never used any jvm based languages, except of jruby and jython which is different ofcourse, but can you please explain your reasons a little more
13:48	bbloom	lxsameer: both are statically compiled to jvm byte code without wrapper objects or other dynamic goo like jruby or jython
13:48	PigDude	core.async has separate cljs and clojure tests, using <!! and >!! for the clojure tests and the async hlpers for the cljs tests
13:49	PigDude	i hope not too many other people have to write clj/cljs stuff, it is a bear :)
13:49	PigDude	to target both thoroughly for something complex
13:49	lxsameer	bbloom: which one do you suggest me to learn (for fun) , I have strong background in python/ruby, and some experiences in elisp .
13:50	bbloom	lxsameer: you're asking a biased audience, this being #clojure and all
13:50	bbloom	lxsameer: if you want to learn about type systems, skip scala and learn haskell, or preferably, an ML-variant
13:50	bbloom	lxsameer: otherwise, learn clojure
13:50	bbloom	lxsameer: have fun :-P
13:51	OscarZ_	lxsameer: maybe a lisp would be a bit different as scala, ruby and python are all OO languages
13:52	lxsameer	bbloom: thasnk
13:52	lxsameer	OscarZ_: I also experienced in C/C++
14:06	hotcore	,(+ 1 1)
14:06	clojurebot	2
14:06	hotcore	&(+ 1 1)
14:06	lazybot	⇒ 2
14:13	Fare	when releasing to I replace -SNAPSHOT by -FINAL, or do I just remove -SNAPSHOT ?
14:14	bbloom	Fare: just remove the -SNAPSHOT
14:15	alloyed	Fare: an example: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/stable/project.clj
14:17	Fare	bbloom, alloyed, thanks!
14:45	eraserhd	Yay, some hack time for Avi.
15:08	lxsameer	what resource do you recommend for learning clojure ?
15:09	magopian	lxsameer: I'm starting with "Programming clojure" ;)
15:09	magopian	it's been fun so far (I've gone through a lot of 4clojure.org exercices also, really fnu)
15:09	magopian	fun
15:14	arrdem	Fare: throwing grammars at instaparse is fun :D
15:14	Fare	I'm a bit disappointed at the error messages provided by lein
15:15	Fare	it could have told me about this - vs _ mismatch
15:17	arrdem	Fare: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1297
15:22	technomancy	Fare: unfortunately that's out of the jurisdiction of lein
15:23	technomancy	but it is really disappointing how little effort the clojure compiler makes towards usability =\
15:24	wink	lxsameer: you can skim through https://pinboard.in/u:winks/t:clojure - maybe something interests you
15:24	technomancy	Fare: btw the whole "bump the version number, commit, and deploy to clojars" steps for libraries is automated in the new `lein release` task in 2.4
15:28	Fare	arrdem, that would have saved me much trouble
15:43	arrdem	technomancy: so I don't need my (slurp "VERSION") and bump.sh anymore?
15:45	arrdem	huh. it looks like I don't..
15:47	gfredericks	technomancy: I have soured on this test-helpers-in-separate-directory approach and am scrutinizing the leiningen.test code for an escape hatch
15:47	gfredericks	in particular I'm wondering if blacklisting a namespace via test-selectors ought to prevent its being reloaded?
15:48	gfredericks	I suspect that should be true but the current code doesn't do it, so just wondering if I'm wrong or the code is buggy
15:48	gfredericks	(i.e., test-selectors applied to namespace metadata)
15:49	technomancy	arrdem: ideally not... try it and see =)
15:50	technomancy	gfredericks: the test selectors stuff kinda got rewritten since I last looked at it
15:50	technomancy	it used to be solely about vars
15:50	technomancy	but I vaguely recall that what you want might have been added
15:50	gfredericks	okay maybe I'll spelunk through blames & commit msgs
15:51	technomancy	spoiler: it was Raynes
15:51	gfredericks	`technomancy blame test-selectors ;; => Raynes`
15:51	gfredericks	technomancy: thanks for the tips
15:52	gfredericks	arrdem: it could tweet its args @technomancy
15:52	arrdem	gfredericks: I was considering using exponential backoff with a cap and retrying across IRC and twitter...
15:56	technomancy	clojurebot: technomancy is eventually consistent.
15:56	clojurebot	Ok.
15:57	arrdem	,1
15:57	clojurebot	eval service is offline
15:57	gfredericks	the `git blame` for the relevant section of code is striped with nothing but me phil and raynes
15:59	technomancy	careful what you wish for
16:06	gfredericks	huh.
16:09	gfredericks	this is a strange feature.
16:11	gfredericks	well this suffices to solve my problem but it is strange and I have a hard time imagining it was explicitly designed to work like this.
16:14	technomancy	it's basically retrofitting a feature that was designed to work with vars to simultaneously also apply to namespaces
16:14	gfredericks	it doesn't really work with metadata though
16:14	technomancy	I've never tried it on namespaces
16:14	gfredericks	afaict the only straightforward use is selecting based on the name of the namespace
16:14	technomancy	oh, also it is a monkeypatch, because jira
16:14	gfredericks	I twerked it to work with metadata by using require and (comp meta the-ns)
16:15	gfredericks	what?
16:15	clojurebot	what is cells
16:15	gfredericks	clojurebot: cells?
16:15	clojurebot	cells is http://gist.github.com/306174
16:15	technomancy	cells is pods!
16:16	gfredericks	clojurebot: pods?
16:16	clojurebot	No entiendo
16:17	gfredericks	I think I've sufficiently imagined what the monkeypatch comment means
16:17	technomancy	gfredericks: because how else are you going to change clojure.test?
16:18	gfredericks	yeah I didn't follow that at first because the stuff I'm looking at isn't directly related
16:20	gfredericks	okay okay okay okay so I think this could be embettered without much haxery
16:21	gfredericks	ideally the namespace selectors should have access to the metadata on the ns sym without having to load the namespace
16:21	gfredericks	and when bultitude returns its list of namespace symbols they do indeed have metadata on them
16:21	gfredericks	the problem is it doesn't get printed on the eval-in-project form for lein test
16:23	technomancy	aha
16:23	gfredericks	doing print-meta on everything would be a bit excessive?
16:23	noncom	how do i push a java jar to clojars with leiningen ?
16:23	noncom	it is a 100% java jar, no project.clj
16:24	gfredericks	you can make your own pom.xml and upload that with the jar
16:24	technomancy	noncom: lein doesn't care what source is in the jar
16:25	noncom	but instructions say "first do pom" and it doesnt pom w/o project.clj
16:25	luxbock	is there a way to tell Emacs/cider to use a certain profile from my project.clj when launching the repl?
16:27	eraserhd	subseq is not a generic version of subvec. <-- just discovered.
16:28	arrdem	is there a groupthink best practice with respect to defining an interface vs defining a bunch of functions over a custom type?
16:28	noncom	so here is my result: https://www.refheap.com/87917
16:28	noncom	an NPE
16:31	noncom	so why do i get an npe ?
16:35	technomancy	noncom: so you're using lein to deploy something that's not a lein project?
16:35	technomancy	you need to tell it what the files are, it can't just figure it out
16:39	noncom	technomancy: yes, thats true, i am deploying a 100% java jar, no project.clj
16:39	amalloy	technomancy: feature request: imbue leiningen with psychic powers
16:39	noncom	you mean i must create a clojure project with java source files to do that ?
16:39	arrdem	amalloy: jvm doesn't support psy until 1.8
16:40	technomancy	noncom: 100% java doesn't imply no project.clj =)
16:40	technomancy	noncom: no, I mean you need to tell lein what files to use when deploying
16:40	technomancy	`lein help deploy`
16:42	dbasch	technomancy: amalloy how about Super Cow Powers?
16:42	amalloy	dbasch: no need; just install a debian VM
16:42	dbasch	amalloy: but it could be done more easily with a plugin
16:43	noncom	so i did lein deploy clojars minim-2.2.0.jar pom.xml
16:43	noncom	it says java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Must provide valid :files to deploy-artifacts
16:44	technomancy	noncom: read the docstring again =)
16:45	technomancy	you just tried to deploy version "pom.xml" of the "mimim-2.2.3.jar" artifact
16:45	noncom	yes
16:45	noncom	names must match ?
16:46	noncom	oh i got it
16:46	noncom	ok
16:46	noncom	wrong args
16:49	arrdem	ugh... so how do I define <, > and = on numbers with tolerances..
16:49	technomancy	interval arithmetic?
16:49	technomancy	maybe just use frinj?
16:50	noncom	so it workred at the end, thank you
16:50	gfredericks	arrdem: what's a tolerance?
16:50	arrdem	gfredericks: 1±3
16:51	arrdem	gfredericks: this weird things engineers do because they don't live in integral words
16:51	technomancy	arrdem: haven't tried it myself, but it sounds like what you want is to just reinvent it?
16:52	technomancy	oh, but if you only want a limited set of operators it's probably a lot simpler
16:52	gfredericks	arrdem: I have a library to help with the algebra tedium :)
16:52	bbloom	i still haven't found a generic operations mechanism that i truly like :-/
16:52	arrdem	gfredericks: do share... so do I. I'm cleaning mine up atm :P
16:53	gfredericks	arrdem: https://github.com/gfredericks/lib-4395
16:53	arrdem	gfredericks: that name :P
16:54	gfredericks	yes it's quite googleable isn't it
16:54	arrdem	very googleable, not very memorable
16:55	gfredericks	say that again after you've used it on ten projects
16:55	gfredericks	arrdem: don't worry my new naming method is the first people-name I encounter on wikipedia's "random article"
16:57	technomancy	gfredericks: does this kind of article count? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_awards_and_nominations_received_by_Brandy_Norwood
16:58	gfredericks	technomancy: I wasn't thinking so but I'm open to arguments
16:59	technomancy	List of R&B artists named after alcoholic beverages
17:00	arrdem	y u no just uuid libraries...
17:07	arrdem	technomancy: thanks for mentioning interval arithmetic. It looks like what I'm doing is implementing a domain specific and equally complex subset of it.
17:12	technomancy	cool
17:14	bbloom	arrdem: is it a subset? or just similar/related ?
17:14	bbloom	i saw something long ago about estimating floating point error
17:14	arrdem	bbloom: I'm revamping https://github.com/arrdem/imprecise atop algo.generic
17:15	bbloom	where they did symbolic execution with (value, error) fixed point pairs
17:15	arrdem	bbloom: it was originally a tool I built to do physics problems for me :P
17:15	arrdem	bbloom: yeah that's what this was for essentially.
17:16	bbloom	there's probably a complete algebra defined for error analysis
17:18	arrdem	probably
17:23	noncom	anyone used clojurewerkz quartz ?
17:51	joegallo	~anyone
17:51	clojurebot	Just a heads up, you're more likely to get some help if you ask the question you really want the answer to, instead of "does anyone ..."
17:51	gfredericks	technomancy: should I commit a disabling of this failing test so travis starts being helpful again?
17:52	gfredericks	the assumption being I don't have time right this moment to figure out why it's failing
17:59	koreth__	Is it considered bad form to wrap a computationally expensive lazy-sequence function in memoize, assuming you're willing to pay the memory cost of keeping the realized elements around forever?
18:06	technomancy	gfredericks: which test is it; I haven't taken a look?
18:07	gfredericks	technomancy: the regression test for the mirror bug
18:07	gfredericks	passes logally, fails on travis
18:07	gfredericks	travis has been red for a week or two or something
18:14	sandbags	It's been a long time since I did anything with Java, I'm trying my hand at a little interop and failing with - what seems like - an obvious class being missing, anyone see where I went wrong? https://gist.github.com/mmower/301059faaead726285b5
18:15	sandbags	i'm wondering if i got the import wrong somehow?
18:18	sandbags	you have to be invited to #java ??
18:18	lazybot	sandbags: Definitely not.
18:19	sandbags	that's a bit inscrutable
18:22	nathan7	sandbags: are you sure it doesn't just require registered nicks?
18:22	arrdem	Okay. why on earth am I getting an error that `min` isn't defined in any of the interface... https://www.refheap.com/87920
18:22	arrdem	*interfaces
18:22	sandbags	nathan7: i got a +i required for #java, ##java is complaining i'm not registered although i could have sworn i am
18:23	nathan7	sandbags: are you logged in
18:23	sandbags	ah, looks like my copy of LimeChat has a faulty password
18:23	nathan7	sandbags: otherwise being registered does little good
18:23	sandbags	odd, i should have thought it would have booted me from the nick by now
18:26	Bronsa	arrdem: definterface methods don't take "this"
18:29	nbeloglazov	sandbags: FileInputSteam -> FileInputStream
18:29	sandbags	okay so java.io.FileInputStream still seems to be a thing... i'm confused about why i'd get a class not found... do you have to somehow include the JDK as a dependency to use Java classes? I kind of assumed they were there given strings are java.lang.String etc...
18:29	arrdem	Bronsa: cheers
18:29	sandbags	nbeloglazov: really? fuck... thanks man
18:29	sandbags	jeez
18:29	sandbags	and i looked at it to see if i mistyped it too!
18:33	dbasch	sandbags: everything in java.lang is already imported
18:33	dbasch	sandbags: oh, you'd typed Steam :)
18:41	sandbags	dbasch: sadly ;-)
18:43	sandbags	unfortunately now i am getting the same error but for one of the Mime4J classes and this one i am sure i have spelled right
18:46	sandbags	or maybe i am butting up against a dependency issue
18:47	sandbags	according to the Apache James site the latest version is actually 0.7.2 but that doesn't seem to be available from maven.org
18:48	sandbags	i assume there must be some other repo i'm supposed to configure somewhere, somehow
18:59	sandbags	anyone take a look at https://gist.github.com/mmower/82d693a87c3ef4699e58 for me?
18:59	sandbags	it seems like this should be working
18:59	sandbags	according to my search of maven.org
19:10	nbeloglazov	sandbags: try apache-mimej-core: http://mvnrepository.com/artifact/org.apache.james/apache-mime4j-core/0.7.2
19:11	sandbags	a ha
19:11	sandbags	thanks nbeloglazov that seems to have done the trick
19:11	sandbags	can you tell me what i was missing there?
19:13	nbeloglazov	Looks like apache-mimej is not a library, but rather assembly of different maven projects and you can't use it in project.clj. That why you have to use apache-mime4j-core, which is a library.
19:14	nbeloglazov	If you compare http://mvnrepository.com/artifact/org.apache.james/apache-mime4j/0.7.2 and http://mvnrepository.com/artifact/org.apache.james/apache-mime4j-core/0.7.2
19:14	nbeloglazov	You'll see that the latter has "Download JAR" button and a size of the library.
19:15	sandbags	ah, so my misunderstanding was to think if it was searchable here that it is ~ a library
19:15	sandbags	thanks nbeloglazov
19:16	nbeloglazov	I agree, that it is confusing. I think I saw some apache projects with similar structure before so it helped.
19:17	nbeloglazov	sandbags: you're welcome :)
19:19	sandbags	okay, seems i am now able to parse at least some stuff from a GMail export file, neat!
20:42	arrdem	technomancy: `lein release :patch` didn't just work when I tried it, I'll play with it some tomorrow.
20:48	gfredericks	arrdem: is it supposed to replace the lein-release plugin?
20:49	arrdem	gfredericks: AFAIK
20:58	gfredericks	now I need a project that needs changing I can try it on
21:58	sritchie	anyone using om here?
21:58	sritchie	amalloy_: and for my real question… :)
21:58	sritchie	curious about patterns for writing reusable components that need config options
21:58	sritchie	react’s props are good for this
21:59	sritchie	just checking if there are any different om conventions that have popped up
22:00	sritchie	ah, om-sync gives a nice example: https://github.com/swannodette/om-sync/blob/master/src/om_sync/core.cljs
22:49	technomancy	arrdem: definitely interested in a bug report for that
23:21	Frozenlock	Noooo.... uberjarpocalypse!
23:21	Frozenlock	'Lein run' works flawlessly, but 'lein uberjar' gives me this error: Exception in thread "main" java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate...
23:21	Frozenlock	Any idea what might be causing this?
23:22	Frozenlock	I already did 'lein clean' multiple times, along with manually deleting the 'missing' library to force lein to redownload it.
23:28	Frozenlock	Oh.. nevermind..
23:28	Frozenlock	I added my dependency in my :dev profile.
23:28	Frozenlock	(dec Frozenlock)
23:28	lazybot	You can't adjust your own karma.
23:55	robink	I finally managed to coerce an nginx-clojure LazyRequestMap to an ASeq w/ the .seq public method. How can I turn the resultant ([:uri "/baseurl"] [:body nil] [:headers {"user-agent" "Mozilla/5.0"}] [:server-port 80] ...) into a nice PersistentArrayMap?
23:56	robink	It's gotta be doable, since LazyRequestMap apparently implements IPersistentMap, and Ring obviously is able to turn nginx-clojure's weird map object into something it can work with since I can do routing and responses with Compojure.
23:56	robink	Is there a way to immediately coerce something that implements IPersistentMap into a PersistentArrayMap (or something analogous) without having to first make it a seq?