2014-06-10
| 00:00 | PigDude | even more than the stacktraces -,- |
| 00:09 | PigDude | probably people with questions like these use other testing tools eventually |
| 00:17 | justin_smith | well, since a standard function can call is, you can construct your test such that you pass args or even an env map describing the values you need to each of those functions |
| 00:28 | ddellacosta | I can't use destructuring in deftype/defrecord args, huh |
| 00:34 | amalloy | ddellacosta: you mean the fields held by a deftype? indeed you can't. but you can in the args passed to a protocol function or interface method |
| 00:34 | ddellacosta | amalloy: yeah, I was talking about the fields. I guess what I've got here is a smell that I'm probably doing something wrong design-wise, though. |
| 00:36 | gratimax | ddellacosta: you should probably extract that destructuring logic into another function |
| 00:36 | amalloy | yeah, that'd be pretty weird. you wouldn't want to be able to support something like (deftype Foo [[x & y :as z]]) - what fields get stored for real, and what gets computed on the fly? it's antithetical to the performance goals of deftypes |
| 00:37 | PigDude | justin_smith: but then your tests fail in one big function? |
| 00:37 | PigDude | justin_smith: (one big test) |
| 00:38 | ddellacosta | amalloy, gratimax: what I've got is a lot of configuration values getting passed in, which should probably be defined by the type user by extending the type with another protocol |
| 00:38 | ddellacosta | ...or something like that. Alternatively, I may just pass in a single opts hash-map for those options that make sense |
| 00:38 | amalloy | ddellacosta: or just define a function that builds these records. don't use (Foo. x y z) as your public-facing api, expose something nicer |
| 00:40 | gratimax | ddellacosta: I use maps for config and have functiosn that operate on those maps in cases like this |
| 00:40 | ddellacosta | amalloy, gratimax: yes, I suppose that's a good strategy--just have a config! function that takes an option map or something, and returns an instance of this thing. |
| 00:40 | ddellacosta | still, can't help but think this is a bit ugly |
| 00:41 | amalloy | why in the world would it be a bang function? |
| 00:41 | gratimax | ddellacosta: what does it mutate? why the bang? |
| 00:41 | amalloy | (defn build-the-thing [config] (TheThing. (whatever config))) |
| 00:41 | ddellacosta | amalloy, gratimax: ...why would it not? It's mutating state by creating an instance of a thing, is it not? |
| 00:41 | justin_smith | PigDude: not really, your deftest can pass whatever data to the individual test functions it needs to run, which should be fairly modular. If you need the same setup for multiple deftests, then once again you can use a function that sets up that data for you (since you shouldn't be testing based on side effects in one test in the next test anyway, their order should be unimportant) |
| 00:42 | gratimax | ddellacosta: unless you're using a previous thing and changing its state, then no |
| 00:42 | amalloy | if allocating objects mutated state, everything in clojure would have a bang |
| 00:42 | justin_smith | PigDude: most convenient is likely a function (or maybe a few for parameterization) that returns a map of options |
| 00:42 | justin_smith | or you can just def the map if they are going to be the same options |
| 00:42 | amalloy | like, conj makes a new list |
| 00:43 | PigDude | justin_smith: but you can't have your cake and eat it too, either you have no failure locality, or you have failure locality as you said, and so all you see is line 234 in test-project (your big test function) |
| 00:43 | PigDude | justin_smith: sorry for being obtuse |
| 00:43 | PigDude | justin_smith: is there somesmall example of this? |
| 00:43 | ddellacosta | gratimax, amalloy: huh, okay...never thought of it that way. I guess this seemed different for some reason, but that's a good counterpoint. |
| 00:44 | ddellacosta | gratimax, amalloy: anyways, in the end I'm not sure that the config fn is saving the user much if they still have to pass in a big bunch of options |
| 00:44 | gratimax | ddellacosta: just interested.. what's your use case? |
| 00:45 | ddellacosta | gratimax: initializing a set of configuration variables for a database + messaging related lib |
| 00:45 | ddellacosta | gratimax: to be very general |
| 00:46 | justin_smith | PigDude: https://github.com/caribou/caribou-core/blob/master/test/caribou/test/model.clj each defn tests a different kind of thing, then they are called in deftests that parameterize (in this case across db backends since they are not fully compatible in the sql they support) - when I get an error in the tests it tells me which backend was being tested, and which function in that test was being run |
| 00:46 | justin_smith | PigDude: pardon some of the weird naming please, a coworker was stoned when writing some of those tests |
| 00:46 | gratimax | ddellacosta: you could possibly do stuff like korma hand have 'defdb' or something that mutates an internal variable and have operations on that |
| 00:47 | ddellacosta | gratimax: trying to avoid doing anything like Korma actually...haha. But more to the point, the database config is just a small part of it. |
| 00:48 | gratimax | you do (defdb {:db "korma" |
| 00:48 | gratimax | :user "db" |
| 00:48 | gratimax | :password "dbpass"})) and then every subequent operation modifies that |
| 00:48 | gratimax | oh, ok |
| 00:48 | PigDude | justin_smith: standard operationg procedure, of course. the trouble is running htis test so i can see what happens when it fails ... i don't hvae these servers around, etc. |
| 00:48 | PigDude | justin_smith: i see the technique, looks reasonable |
| 00:48 | ddellacosta | gratimax: there is database config, then past that ways for subscribing to messages, and flags for related behavior (filtering and whatnot). I just have to find the right way to organize it all. |
| 00:49 | PigDude | justin_smith: but i fear when the test fails you are seeing failure: postgres-tests, not failure: collection-map-test |
| 00:49 | justin_smith | PigDude: that's what test/testing is for |
| 00:49 | justin_smith | I get both messages |
| 00:49 | justin_smith | I promise |
| 00:49 | justin_smith | those tests break a lot, so I have to make sure they give me reasonable output :) |
| 00:49 | gratimax | ddellacosta: if all you're doing is initializing then reading from config, I would keep the config to simple maps with accessor functions |
| 00:50 | PigDude | i wish i could run them but i'm not ready to configure mysql/postgres on localhost to run this :\ do you have an example of failure output? |
| 00:50 | mdeboard | Are vars considered harmful? |
| 00:50 | PigDude | fine if not, this is a nice example |
| 00:50 | mdeboard | I thought I read something saying ~that recently |
| 00:50 | justin_smith | PigDude: well you could run h2, but that would require the bootstrap stage |
| 00:50 | justin_smith | one sec, I'll make one break |
| 00:51 | PigDude | justin_smith: clojure testing seems very "seat-of-your-pants" |
| 00:51 | gratimax | so your api would be something like 1. (defthing mything {:config "x" :other-config "y"}) 2. (subscribe! mything :my-message ...) 3. (filter mything :my-message ...) |
| 00:51 | mdeboard | dynamic vars, I guess. |
| 00:51 | PigDude | justin_smith: with projects inventing their own schemes |
| 00:51 | PigDude | justin_smith: as does this one |
| 00:51 | gratimax | mdeboard: depends on use case, like everything |
| 00:51 | ddellacosta | gratimax: yeah, the basic thing that I'm wrestling with is that I have this central...thing that gets passed around--it has to know both about database stuff as well as messaging stuff. And I'm having trouble keeping it clean while still allowing the user to configure it simply. So I'm still searching for the right design principle here...we'll see. In any case, thanks for the help, also thanks to amalloy. |
| 00:51 | PigDude | justin_smith: (and mine) |
| 00:52 | mdeboard | Oh, I misunderstood the thing. |
| 00:52 | justin_smith | PigDude: it's just higher order functions being used to permute over some options, this is a pretty standard thing, and given we have pervasive statelessness and immutability, we don't actually need a lot of the other unit testing conventions |
| 00:53 | gratimax | ddellacosta: is the user going to create multiple things? if yes I would do like korma, if no, I would pass it around |
| 00:53 | gratimax | ddellacosta: final option is a macro like (withthing mything (subscribe! :my-message) (filter ...) ...) |
| 00:53 | justin_smith | (until we have stateful / mutating code, then yeah maybe you should check out junit or midge or whatever) |
| 00:53 | ddellacosta | gratimax: the user needs to be able to set up a message queue, subscribe to messages, and then update a database which triggers messages getting sent out. Definitely trying to avoid a config macro...something we've considered though. |
| 00:55 | gratimax | ddellacosta: I see. I probably don't know enough about the project to give you any more useful advice. good luck anyway |
| 00:57 | ddellacosta | gratimax: yeah, I probably have to go into more detail before I can solicit useful feedback...but thanks, I appreciate getting your thoughts! It's helpful nonetheless. |
| 00:57 | PigDude | justin_smith: i agree about the strengths of immutability and fp for testing, i find tests very easy and reliable to write in erlang, but i am waiting for (or might work on :)) something in clojure like eunit+ct |
| 00:57 | PigDude | justin_smith: i think it's nice to have some conventions even in a powerful language |
| 00:58 | mdeboard | here's what I was thinking of http://stuartsierra.com/2013/03/29/perils-of-dynamic-scope |
| 01:00 | PigDude | justin_smith: btw this caribou library is neat |
| 01:00 | justin_smith | PigDude: it's pretty huge |
| 01:00 | PigDude | hehe |
| 01:00 | justin_smith | lein new caribou gets you a MRM (map relational model), an interactive web based cms for lay-users, a default schema bootstrapped... |
| 01:01 | justin_smith | also the cms is totally own-dogfood built in the lib itself |
| 01:01 | justin_smith | it's too big and too bloated and too frameworky, but it helped me get a lot of work done and was definitely a fun learning experience |
| 01:01 | PigDude | util/dbize is useful for something i am doing |
| 01:02 | PigDude | this technique |
| 01:02 | justin_smith | and also, despite the massive ram usage, it performs very well |
| 01:02 | justin_smith | even has a caching image resizer with s3 integration built in, full kitchen sink |
| 01:02 | PigDude | if you care about ram you aren';t using clojure |
| 01:02 | justin_smith | heh |
| 01:03 | justin_smith | OK I fixed the logging level so the test output wasn't a huge spew of noise, now to make a test fail and share the output |
| 01:03 | PigDude | ty so much |
| 01:04 | justin_smith | np, this matters to me, because if I am wrong and there is a better way to do this, then you'll make something better, and we all win |
| 01:05 | justin_smith | so there are some stray printlns that I totally need to delete, but I think the location and context of what failed is very clear here https://www.refheap.com/86426 |
| 01:06 | justin_smith | see how I get a line number, but also the test name and the testing statement- it is unambiguous where things were when it failed |
| 01:10 | justin_smith | as well as the file name, of course |
| 01:13 | PigDude | justin_smith: not too bad |
| 01:14 | PigDude | justin_smith: so the (testing strings get you there |
| 01:14 | PigDude | justin_smith: i like it! |
| 01:14 | skinkitten | thanks justin_smith lots of help earlier today |
| 01:14 | justin_smith | skinkitten: np |
| 01:14 | skinkitten | going to learn a lot from you |
| 01:14 | justin_smith | PigDude: also, is takes an optional string argument, if you want to provide even more context |
| 01:14 | justin_smith | skinkitten: with any luck |
| 01:15 | PigDude | yea i always use that |
| 01:15 | andyf | and the string can be dynamically built at test run time with str, format, etc. |
| 01:15 | PigDude | is this the official clojure.test docs? http://richhickey.github.io/clojure/clojure.test-api.html |
| 01:15 | PigDude | it's confusing how the docs are everywhere |
| 01:15 | andyf | yes |
| 01:15 | seancorfield | the richhickey repo is old |
| 01:15 | andyf | oh, wait, no, that is the old one as sean said |
| 01:16 | PigDude | yea that was my fear, that these richhickey github io pages are all out of date |
| 01:16 | seancorfield | here http://clojure.github.io/clojure/clojure.test-api.html |
| 01:16 | PigDude | thanks, i'll go there |
| 01:16 | andyf | That said, the up to date official docs aren't necessarily more explanatory than the old out of date one :) |
| 01:16 | PigDude | this helps a lot, i was getting pretty frustrated and making some ugly testing schemes |
| 01:17 | justin_smith | I put many hours into those caribou.model tests, I wonder how many useful clojure.test features or idioms are missing from there |
| 01:19 | skinkitten | :) |
| 01:21 | seancorfield | We started out using clojure.test at World Singles but now we only use it for our WebDriver stuff since it feels very imperative - do stuff, assert something observable, do more stuff, assert something observable... |
| 01:21 | seancorfield | We switched to Expectations about 18 months ago |
| 01:21 | mdeboard | haha |
| 01:22 | mdeboard | reminds me of that SNL skit from years ago, "Lowered Expectations" |
| 01:22 | mdeboard | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xLsRI7-hBs |
| 01:22 | mdeboard | s/SNL/MadTV/ |
| 01:24 | justin_smith | seancorfield: interesting - I found my tests were mostly about asserting some property of a returned data structure (other than fixtures, but the point is that those abstract the procedural setup from the functional values) |
| 01:26 | skinkitten | hi seancorfield :) |
| 01:26 | seancorfield | Expectations makes it easy to test a bunch of things about a returned value, all at once |
| 01:26 | skinkitten | I remember you from programming language DEC 2013 |
| 01:26 | seancorfield | Hiya skinkitten - enjoying Clojure now? |
| 01:27 | skinkitten | great course, learned a lot from you ^^ I hope you're doing great . yes I am, it is a nice language, reminds me of racket |
| 01:29 | seancorfield | skinkitten yeah, life is good... spent the day working with Mark Engelberg's Instaparse to create a way to specify our search rules in "English" :) |
| 01:30 | seancorfield | skinkitten what have you been working on since PL? |
| 01:36 | wei | what’s a good way to create a lookup map from a list? e.g. lookup by id ({:id 1 :data 123}, {:id 2 :data 456}) => {1 {:id 1 :data 123}, 2 {:id 2 :data 456}} |
| 01:37 | andyf | wei: (group-by :id lst) is close to what you ask for |
| 01:38 | mdeboard | ooh |
| 01:38 | andyf | except that each map value is a vector of values with the same value of the function. |
| 01:38 | andyf | wow, I didn't edit that sentence before sending it |
| 01:38 | mdeboard | haha |
| 01:39 | mdeboard | I invented my own way of doing that... https://github.com/mattdeboard/ticket-to-ride/blob/master/src/ttr/board.clj#L262 |
| 01:39 | mdeboard | I needed an index based on the values of multiple keys |
| 01:40 | mdeboard | i'm sure there's a function out ther ethat does exactly what i need already, does group-by take a func? |
| 01:40 | mdeboard | sho nuff |
| 01:40 | mdeboard | I'm even using it here https://github.com/mattdeboard/ticket-to-ride/blob/master/src/ttr/board.clj#L322 |
| 01:40 | mdeboard | oh well, for tomorrow. |
| 01:41 | wei | thanks. basically just need a function for updating an element in a list, would be nice if it’s constant time |
| 01:42 | wei | ,(into {} (for [[k v] (group-by :id '({:id 1 :data 123}, {:id 2 :data 456}))] [k (first v)]) ) |
| 01:42 | clojurebot | {1 {:id 1, :data 123}, 2 {:id 2, :data 456}} |
| 01:42 | wei | kinda verbose though |
| 01:43 | PigDude | seancorfield: cool, i'll look at expectations |
| 01:44 | andyf | wei: There is a function often called map-vals that many people have defined that does what everything except the group-by call in your example does. |
| 01:44 | skinkitten | seancorfield, amazing! I've been completing coursera courses! I can't get enough of them, upcoming are algorithms and a principles of computing by rice. programming in a lot of languages is fun, these past days I've been programming in ruby,python,racket,clojure :D |
| 01:44 | andyf | well, almost everything: (map-vals (group-by :id lst) first) |
| 01:45 | andyf | or probably actually the other way around on args: (map-vals first (group-by :id lst)) |
| 01:45 | wei | right. map-vals should come with clojure :) |
| 01:46 | andyf | (defn map-vals [f m] (into {} (for [[k v] m] [k (f v)])) |
| 01:46 | andyf | often redefined, and yes, it wouldn't be bad if it were in core |
| 01:47 | andyf | https://github.com/jonase/eastwood/blob/master/src/eastwood/util.clj#L9-L23 |
| 01:47 | amalloy | andyf: https://github.com/flatland/useful/blob/develop/src/flatland/useful/seq.clj#L422 is a more general group-by that allows you to do those steps all at once, without the intermediate list of things you don't care about |
| 01:48 | seancorfield | skinkitten cool, i've done a lot of languages over the years, but i like working mostly in clojure/script nowadays :) |
| 01:48 | wei | these are quite useful functions (as the name claims) |
| 01:49 | wei | amalloy: ^ |
| 01:49 | andyf | amalloy: amalloy/useful has issues and pull requests, but flatland/useful does not. Should interested parties file issues against flatland/useful? |
| 01:49 | mdeboard | holy crap |
| 01:49 | mdeboard | awesome. |
| 01:50 | amalloy | andyf: i don't know, really. flatland/useful used to be the official home, but in the geni layoffs i took it |
| 01:50 | seancorfield | ,(into {} (map (juxt :id identity) '({:id 1 :data 123} {;id 2 :data 456}))) |
| 01:50 | clojurebot | #<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading> |
| 01:50 | amalloy | i'm still used to linking to flatland, and don't really think of it as mine; but we split up the flatland repos so that our personal github pages don't look so lonely |
| 01:50 | seancorfield | oops |
| 01:51 | seancorfield | ,(into {} (map (juxt :id identity) '({:id 1 :data 123} {:id 2 :data 456}))) |
| 01:51 | clojurebot | {1 {:id 1, :data 123}, 2 {:id 2, :data 456}} |
| 01:51 | wei | amalloy: groupings does not seem to compile in clojurescript: if-let requires exactly 2 forms in binding vector |
| 01:51 | seangrove | wei: It's about time I left the country, thinking about Korea - you still out that way? |
| 01:51 | wei | there’s no if-let in there though, weird |
| 01:51 | andyf | wei: if-let is in core |
| 01:52 | andyf | wei: sorry, wasn't following your meaning carefully enough. |
| 01:53 | amalloy | huh, should compile fine. dunno what's wrong |
| 01:53 | wei | seangrove: yup, in Beijing now. we should meet up! |
| 01:58 | skinkitten | seanaway, nice :) |
| 03:16 | ddellacosta | seangrove: stopping in Japan? |
| 03:16 | danielcompton | When upgrading leiningen (or most other CLI apps), why does it show "Do you want to continue [Y/n]" with a capital Y and lowercase N? |
| 03:17 | ddellacosta | danielcompton: I assume that indicates the default |
| 03:17 | danielcompton | ddellacosta: that makes complete sense |
| 05:55 | silasdavis | I need something like a sorted-map, but with the ability to lookup the neighbours of a particular key |
| 05:56 | silasdavis | so for example if the map had |
| 05:56 | silasdavis | {:aa 1 :ab 3 :cd 4} |
| 05:56 | silasdavis | I cna find out that the left neighbour of :ac would be :ab and the right :cd |
| 05:57 | silasdavis | It would be fine if I had to first :ac, and thenn somehow get the previous |
| 05:58 | Glenjamin | silasdavis: have a look at clojure.data.avl |
| 05:58 | Glenjamin | i think that does what you describe |
| 05:59 | silasdavis | ah perfect |
| 05:59 | silasdavis | yes I think it does |
| 05:59 | silasdavis | thanks |
| 06:07 | silasdavis | is there any performance difference between using destructuring, [head & tail], to get the first/rest of a seq (actually a vector in this case) vs using the functions? |
| 06:12 | clgv | silasdavis: might be (depending on the concrete access). you are on the safe sight by using the API function of data.avl |
| 06:13 | john2x | is vector a sequence? |
| 06:14 | clgv | john2x: what sequence property are you interested in? |
| 06:16 | clgv | &(->> [] class ancestors sort) |
| 06:16 | john2x | clgv: I'm just confused when tutorials/books/docs talk about functions working on sequences.. e.g. whether I should explicitly (seq ..) a vector when a function expects a sequence, etc.. |
| 06:17 | clgv | john2x: functions working on sequences do call "seq" themselves usually |
| 06:17 | clgv | john2x: seq+next in recursion or lazyseq tail is a common pattern |
| 06:18 | john2x | oh ok.. and `seq` works on vectors.. so sequences mean anything that can be seq'd? |
| 06:18 | clgv | john2x: in summary those functions work on vectors but the reult is not a vector anymore |
| 06:19 | clgv | only exception are mapv (for one sequential datstructure) and filterv |
| 06:19 | clgv | ,(seq [4 7 9]) |
| 06:20 | clojurebot | (4 7 9) |
| 06:21 | clgv | john2x: yes in that context sequences and things you can get sequences from are meant |
| 06:22 | john2x | clgv: thanks. makes a lot more sense now.. |
| 07:15 | clgv | I still wonder why this happens: "ClassCastException [trace missing]" - after reevaluation of the namespace I get no exception traces anymore :( |
| 07:36 | danielcompton | As a Clojure project grows in age, probability that it will write its own version of dissoc-in approaches 1 http://crossclj.info/search?q=dissoc-in |
| 07:38 | noidi | heh |
| 07:42 | clgv | danielcompton: well isnt there a jira ticket for dissoc-in? |
| 07:43 | danielcompton | http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1063 |
| 07:43 | danielcompton | Affects 1.4 |
| 07:43 | danielcompton | :) |
| 07:43 | clgv | ha right, thats the one I created ;) |
| 07:51 | mduerksen | didn't know about crossclj - how cool is that! :) |
| 07:52 | clgv | hmm does crossclj index clojars? since there are definitely some functions on github that I do not find with it |
| 07:52 | phillord | Is any one else getting crashes from lein help release (for the new version) or is it just me? |
| 07:52 | clgv | phillord: was there an update? |
| 07:53 | phillord | 2.4.0 |
| 07:53 | phillord | which includes a release task:-) |
| 07:53 | clgv | lein 2.3.4: lein help release => Task: 'release' not found |
| 07:54 | phillord | yes |
| 07:54 | phillord | it's 2.4.0 |
| 07:58 | clgv | no I mean thats the result with 2.3.4 ;) |
| 07:59 | phillord | yes, I would have guessed that would be the result |
| 08:00 | phillord | as the release task is new in 2.4.0 |
| 08:00 | CookedGryphon | phillord: yeah, i got a stack overflow for lein help release |
| 08:00 | phillord | it takes 5 minutes to overflow for me, which is the strange thing |
| 08:06 | engblom | Is lein still used? It seem to pull down an old version of Clojure |
| 08:07 | kzar | engblom: Lein is still used, clojure version generally depends on project.clj. Also have you tried `lein upgrade`? |
| 08:12 | engblom | kzar: It must have been updated very recently. I also did 'lein upgrade' last week and then it was still using 1.5. Now it is using 1.6 |
| 08:13 | kzar | Cool OK |
| 08:17 | engblom | I have JDK installed myself, but if I want to deploy a clojure project somewhere, is JRE enough? |
| 08:18 | engblom | How is the compilation happening? Is it outputting java-code which then javac compiles or is clojure directly outputting java bytecode for jre? |
| 08:18 | Bronsa | engblom: the compiler emits jvm bytecode directly |
| 08:19 | engblom | Bronsa: Thanks! |
| 08:28 | deathknight | Hey guys, it just occurred to me that collaborating on an open source project might not be unlike being in a corporation in Eve-Online or a clan in a game. I'm an amateur and think being in a collaborative environment would be advantageous to my learning. What is a project that one recommends that I contributing to? |
| 08:28 | mdrogalis | deathknight: Leiningen, perhaps. |
| 08:29 | deathknight | sweet, that has a pretty active community |
| 08:35 | sdegutis | Is lein ring uberjar still the recommended way to compile simple ring-baed Clojure web apps? |
| 08:37 | hyPiRion | deathknight: If you have any questions re: leiningen problems, feel free to ask over at #leiningen |
| 08:38 | hyPiRion | deathknight: In addition, xeqi -- which knows a fair bit of lein stuff, wanted to pair with people: http://nelsonmorris.net/2014/04/07/saturday-remote-pairing.html |
| 08:38 | deathknight | awesome! |
| 08:38 | deathknight | This helps so much, hyPiRion |
| 08:38 | deathknight | thank you |
| 08:38 | hyPiRion | no problem, hope it helps |
| 08:39 | deathknight | It does, tremendously |
| 08:39 | hyPiRion | I'll try to be more active over there and help people after this week is over, too. (Currently in my last week of my master's thesis) |
| 08:39 | mdrogalis | hyPiRion: Your tweets scare me. |
| 08:40 | hyPiRion | mdrogalis: I'm afraid I'm going crazy |
| 08:40 | mdrogalis | You can join Donny K. |
| 08:40 | mdrogalis | I think he'd punch me if I called him that. |
| 08:40 | sdegutis | Is it natural that the bigger a project gets, the less control I want to give to third-party libraries over how it's launched and executed? |
| 08:40 | sdegutis | (i.e. lein ring) |
| 08:49 | catern | sdegutis: why don't you want lein ring? |
| 08:50 | sdegutis | It's not that I don't want it.. it's that I don't know what it's doing, and that means I have less control over my project. |
| 08:50 | sdegutis | Also, I see that when I run lein ring uberjar, it adds a :main task to my project, but Lein complains that there's no :aot for it. The solution for this would be more obvious if I added :main by myelf. |
| 09:30 | mdedetrich | hey I am getting familiar with clojure + light table, and I was wondering if there is a list of default keymaps for paredit, or is it something you have to manually configure (and if so, is there an idea config I can get from somewhere?) |
| 09:31 | Glenjamin | mdedetrich: LT inherits a bunch of keybinds from codemirror |
| 09:31 | mdedetrich | Glenjamin: can you provide me with a link? |
| 09:32 | Glenjamin | everything LT-specific is the in the "Default/User Keymaps" page |
| 09:32 | mdedetrich | Glenjamin: ah brilliant, thank you! |
| 09:33 | Glenjamin | this might help |
| 09:33 | Glenjamin | https://bitbucket.org/glenjamin/dotfiles/src/master/LightTable/settings/user.keymap?at=master |
| 09:33 | Glenjamin | those are my keybind overrides |
| 09:34 | mdedetrich | Glenjamin: yeah there doesn't seem to be anything spefic to paredit in the default section |
| 09:36 | mdedetrich | but thanks for the help, looks like I got some exploring to do |
| 09:54 | silasdavis | is using a keyword as a function to access record fields going to be any slower than using the java interop directly? |
| 09:54 | silasdavis | i.e. |
| 09:54 | silasdavis | (.children node) vs (:children node) for some record node |
| 09:55 | tesmar | I am addicted to 4clojure.com |
| 09:55 | silasdavis | and which, if either, is prefered |
| 09:55 | tesmar | it’s awesome and a great challenge |
| 09:58 | pjstadig | silasdavis: i would suspect that (.children node) would be faster, but as always with speculation it should be profiled |
| 09:59 | pjstadig | silasdavis: there are other considerations like that using (.children node) won't allow you to process non-record maps, so it creats more brittle code |
| 09:59 | pjstadig | *creates |
| 10:00 | silasdavis | yeah I'd prefer symbol access if the difference is anything other than neglible |
| 10:01 | silasdavis | does anyone know how to clear all assignments in lighttable? I keep restarting it to get a clean repl |
| 10:01 | pjstadig | clojure does some work to make keyword callsites fast, so i'm not certain that it *would* be non-neglible |
| 10:17 | honza | what's the standard way of installing java on osx these days? i seem to be stuck on java 6 |
| 10:28 | justin_smith | honza: oracle or openjdk should have installers for download that just work™ |
| 10:35 | stuartsierra | silasdavis: Keyword access is always preferred. |
| 10:36 | stuartsierra | Unless you're using the record in a hot loop, there should be no visible difference. |
| 10:42 | canweriotnow | I’m working on implementing an OAuth2 provider in a ring/compojure app. I’ve been playing with https://github.com/pelle/clauth but I was wondering if anyone had found/created any better solutions for this? |
| 10:52 | philandstuff | canweriotnow: I'm interested in this too, particularly around building OpenID Connect providers and consumers |
| 10:53 | philandstuff | it's probably worth investigating java libraries that you could call from clojure |
| 10:57 | gfredericks | why does cider-nrepl use snapshots? do emacs people hate concrete versions? |
| 10:58 | gtrak | there will be a stable release in a couple weeks. |
| 10:58 | cbp | its pretty much like auto update man |
| 10:58 | cbp | every 24 hours |
| 10:59 | gtrak | I do like that aspect of it, when we're not breaking people (sorry) :-) |
| 10:59 | gtrak | it's also been discussed to have a separate dev branch |
| 11:01 | gfredericks | I prefer to only update my dev tooling when I'm in the mood to do so |
| 11:02 | gfredericks | emacs' package manager thing seems to make this difficult too |
| 11:02 | gtrak | gfredericks: yea, that's hell. I'm going to rework mine with el-get when I get a chance. |
| 11:02 | gtrak | but I've been running cider from a git checkout. |
| 11:02 | gtrak | since I hack on it. |
| 11:16 | tvanhens | Is using lein run an acceptable way to run an app in production or is it preferred to build to uberjar? |
| 11:17 | llasram | 1000x the latter |
| 11:17 | nixn | tvanhens: it depends on how the underlying webserver runs (security-wise) |
| 11:17 | hyPiRion | Unless you have good reason to use `lein run` over uberjaring, use uberjar |
| 11:18 | tvanhens | gotcha thanks. |
| 11:18 | Glenjamin | there's a gotcha with uberjars |
| 11:18 | Glenjamin | in that any jvm-opts you'll need to include in your "java -jar" command |
| 11:19 | tvanhens | as in anything we have defined in the project.clj jvm-opts we'll need to run manually with java -jar? |
| 11:19 | gfredericks | yeah; and it reduces your ability to depend on other lein features, like aliases |
| 11:20 | tvanhens | what about command line arguments, is there a way to pass those in? |
| 11:21 | hyPiRion | tvanhens: `java [ options ] -jar file.jar [ arguments ]` |
| 11:21 | gfredericks | yeah, java -jar supports that |
| 11:22 | gfredericks | while you're at it, you can also avoid AOT via `java [ options ] -cp file.jar clojure.main -m my.main.namespace [ arguments ]` |
| 11:22 | tvanhens | gfredericks whats the upside of that? |
| 11:23 | technomancy | it's easy to mess up AOT |
| 11:23 | hyPiRion | avoiding AOT bugs |
| 11:24 | technomancy | however, avoiding AOT also adds to your startup time |
| 11:25 | gfredericks | leiningen does not have a changelog? |
| 11:25 | technomancy | gfredericks: it's pronounced NEWS.md |
| 11:25 | kzar | Trying to get started with stasis. I'm doing (stasis.core/slurp-resources "resources/public/" #".*") at the repl to see how things work. It's returning an empty array-map though despite there being a file in resources/public/index.html |
| 11:25 | hyPiRion | when it comes to AOT, you're sort of between Scylla and Charybdis. |
| 11:25 | gfredericks | technomancy: oh that is an interesting pronunciation; thamks |
| 11:26 | tvanhens | Thanks guys that was a ton of help :) Are there any resources that are good for reading up about AOT and uberjars in general? |
| 11:26 | technomancy | AOT is fine as long as it never happens in a development context |
| 11:26 | technomancy | so if you have a build server, you should be safe |
| 11:26 | kzar | (I'm trying to migrate my site from jekyll to something clojurey, don't have to use stasis) |
| 11:26 | gfredericks | oh hey I am mentioned in the news |
| 11:26 | hyPiRion | gfredericks: in the changelog* |
| 11:26 | technomancy | gfredericks: front page |
| 11:26 | technomancy | extra, extra, read all about it |
| 11:26 | hyPiRion | we just spell it funny |
| 11:27 | gfredericks | our CI started failing when it silently switched to using 2.4.0 and I'm trying to figure out why |
| 11:27 | hyPiRion | Oh, that's a lot of new names on the list |
| 11:30 | bacon1989 | Does anyone know where I could find an example of clojure running in an android project? |
| 11:30 | technomancy | hyPiRion: that's the best part of the new release =D |
| 11:30 | arrdem | hyPiRion: 30+ https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/clojure-dev/l1hF94fFNN4 |
| 11:30 | bacon1989 | I can't seem to get it working without getting null pointer exceptions |
| 11:31 | bacon1989 | here's an example of what i'm trying to do http://pastebin.com/4zsXjmw5 |
| 11:31 | Frozenlock | bacon1989: Would the clojuredroid tutorial be enough, or do you want a production application? |
| 11:32 | bacon1989 | Frozenlock: I want to include the runtime in an existing android application, I can't seem to find documentation on that |
| 11:32 | hyPiRion | arrdem: I was thinking about Leiningen, in the changelog |
| 11:32 | hyPiRion | Although that is really neat too |
| 11:32 | bacon1989 | there doens't appear to be an example of it anywhere |
| 11:33 | Frozenlock | bacon1989: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/clojure-android (That's the limit of my knowledge) :-p |
| 11:34 | bacon1989 | Frozenlock: that's helpful, thank you |
| 11:34 | bacon1989 | I'm really trying to figure out if my problem is with dalvik, or if it's with my function calls in the example I gave you |
| 11:34 | Frozenlock | (slurp "some-url") gives me a connection error. Is there a way to specify which interface should be used? |
| 11:34 | bacon1989 | I kind of followed this article http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2181774/calling-clojure-from-java |
| 11:35 | Frozenlock | Network interface |
| 11:35 | clgv | was there leiningen 2.4.0 annoucement on the ML? seems I missed that |
| 11:38 | justin_smith | Frozenlock: you may want to check out java.net.URL and its api |
| 11:39 | Frozenlock | justin_smith: Will do, thanks |
| 11:39 | justin_smith | for example it has a version of the openConnection() method that takes a proxy argument |
| 11:39 | justin_smith | ~javadoc java.net.URL |
| 11:39 | clojurebot | I don't understand. |
| 11:39 | justin_smith | (wondering if that works ... nope) |
| 11:39 | Frozenlock | I reading now http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/net/URL.html |
| 11:40 | Frozenlock | *I'm |
| 11:40 | Frozenlock | That's weird.. I was expecting the OS to chose the interface with the web access for this :-/ |
| 11:40 | Frozenlock | choose |
| 11:41 | justin_smith | what did your arg to slurp look like? I assume it include protocol etc.? |
| 11:42 | Frozenlock | (slurp "http://google.ca") => java.io.IOException: Server returned HTTP response code: 504 for URL: http://google.ca |
| 11:43 | bacon1989 | I guess my basic question is, how do I read data into the clojure runtime? |
| 11:43 | justin_smith | bacon1989: what kind of data? for clojure edn literals, clojure.edn/read |
| 11:43 | gtrak | bacon1989: what kind of data? |
| 11:43 | gtrak | justin_smith: lol |
| 11:44 | bacon1989 | sorry, i'll be more detailed |
| 11:44 | systemfault | Frozenlock: 504??! o_O |
| 11:44 | gtrak | big data? little data? orange data? |
| 11:44 | nixn | it's always hot data |
| 11:44 | canweriotnow | philandstuff: that’s a good idea… I’ll have to take a look. thanks |
| 11:44 | justin_smith | gtrak: dada data |
| 11:44 | cbp | ~big data |
| 11:45 | clojurebot | I don't understand. |
| 11:45 | justin_smith | ~bigdata |
| 11:45 | clojurebot | Excuse me? |
| 11:45 | cbp | dammit clojurebot get with the times |
| 11:45 | gtrak | nice cooled glass of data. |
| 11:45 | justin_smith | :P |
| 11:45 | justin_smith | ~cloud |
| 11:45 | clojurebot | excusez-moi |
| 11:45 | justin_smith | ~botsmack |
| 11:45 | clojurebot | clojurebot evades successfully! |
| 11:45 | Frozenlock | systemfault: I know... not everyday you see a 504 :-p |
| 11:46 | systemfault | Frozenlock: From Google, indeed. |
| 11:46 | bacon1989 | I'm in java, and I want to load a string into the clojure runtime, and then call it. There appears to be a function clojure.lang.RT.loadResourceScript(filepath), but I want to just load a 'string' into the clojure runtime |
| 11:46 | gtrak | bacon1989: eval+read-string |
| 11:47 | bacon1989 | my code looks like this http://pastebin.com/TheJsqCE |
| 11:47 | bacon1989 | gtrak: i'm not making a repl just yet |
| 11:47 | gfredericks | so I'm using leiningen 2.3.4 |
| 11:48 | gfredericks | which depends on pomegranate 0.2.0 |
| 11:48 | gfredericks | yet it downloads pomegranate 0.3.0 |
| 11:48 | gfredericks | (and presumably uses that) |
| 11:48 | gtrak | bacon1989: well, what do you mean call it? sounds like that's what you want from the pastebin |
| 11:48 | gfredericks | how can I figure out why? If a plugin depends on 0.3.0, can that override leiningen's own dependency? |
| 11:48 | bacon1989 | gtrak: on line 23, that line needs to be loaded into the runtime |
| 11:49 | bacon1989 | there's a function for loading a 'file', but no function for loading a 'string' that i'm aware of |
| 11:49 | stuartsierra | bacon1989: You would need Clojure.var("clojure.core", "read-string") and Clojure.var("clojure.core", "eval") |
| 11:49 | bacon1989 | any ideas? |
| 11:49 | bacon1989 | stuartsierra: ahh ok |
| 11:50 | stuartsierra | bacon1989: But it looks like you're working on Android, and I doubt that Clojure's `eval` will work at all on Android. |
| 11:51 | bacon1989 | stuartsierra: are you sure? i've heard of people being pretty successful getting a clojure-repl working |
| 11:51 | stuartsierra | Although, now that I think of it, someone demonstrated a Clojure REPL on Android, but it was very slow. |
| 11:51 | bacon1989 | ya |
| 11:51 | bacon1989 | i saw that |
| 11:51 | bacon1989 | i'm ok with slow startup times |
| 11:51 | gtrak | bacon1989: there's no faster path to load code than eval. |
| 11:52 | gtrak | aside from AOT |
| 11:52 | gfredericks | technomancy: if I add a {:mirrors {"central" {...}}} to my user profile, should I expect pomegranate to blow up with the error msg "Multiple mirrors configured to match repository"? |
| 11:53 | technomancy | gfredericks: hrm; I've never used mirrors, but I think the answer is no |
| 11:53 | technomancy | gfredericks: is this new in 2.4.0? |
| 11:53 | gfredericks | kthx; staring at the pomegranate source now |
| 11:53 | gfredericks | technomancy: well I think it applies to uses of pomegranate 0.3.0, which is supposedly new in 2.4.0 |
| 11:53 | gfredericks | I'm getting 0.3.0 using leiningen 2.3.4 but haven't figured out why yet |
| 11:54 | gfredericks | this pomegranate code might be buggy |
| 11:59 | gfredericks | technomancy: easiest way for me to run leiningen with an alternate version of pomegranate? is there a checkouts for the plugin classpath? |
| 12:00 | mdeboard | ,(group-by :id [{:id 1 :name "foo" :banana "potato"} {:id 2 :name "foo" :banana "fistula"}]) |
| 12:00 | clojurebot | {1 [{:name "foo", :id 1, :banana "potato"}], 2 [{:name "foo", :id 2, :banana "fistula"}]} |
| 12:00 | mdeboard | Right, so is there a group-by that will group by compound keys |
| 12:00 | gfredericks | like two keys at once? |
| 12:00 | mdeboard | ,(group-by [:id :banana] [{:id 1 :name "foo" :banana "potato"} {:id 2 :name "foo" :banana "fistula"}]) |
| 12:00 | clojurebot | #<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Key must be integer> |
| 12:00 | mdeboard | right |
| 12:00 | gfredericks | mdeboard: use juxt |
| 12:00 | sdegutis | How do you all usually compile your web app and upload it? |
| 12:01 | mdeboard | I wrote one last night but I assume there's an easier way |
| 12:01 | sdegutis | I have an alias called "compile-all" that runs "cljsbuild once", "garden once", "ring uberjar", and then I push the resulting .jar file up to the server. |
| 12:01 | bacon1989 | alright, so this is what i've got so far, I seem to be getting closer. Error on line 25 http://pastebin.com/MYjs5gFF |
| 12:02 | bacon1989 | java.lang.UnsupportedOperationException |
| 12:02 | bacon1989 | any ideas? |
| 12:02 | sdegutis | But it seems like this isn't what Leiningen :aliases were meant for... is there some other more canonical way? |
| 12:02 | nullptr` | TIL about garden |
| 12:02 | nullptr` | (inc sdegutis) |
| 12:02 | sdegutis | aww the one time, and lazybot isnt here :( |
| 12:02 | hyPiRion | Raynes: ^ |
| 12:02 | hyPiRion | you had one job. |
| 12:02 | sdegutis | it's okay, let's just remember that I have 1 |
| 12:03 | bacon1989 | is it possible I need to generate the string in clojure using 'def'? |
| 12:03 | clgv | might have been famous last words? :P |
| 12:04 | ambrosebs | clgv: made my own fork, works great. |
| 12:05 | clgv | ambrosebs: did lazybot get jealous of your fork and just quit? :P |
| 12:05 | ambrosebs | I miss lazybot too :( |
| 12:05 | justin_smith | bacon1989: the string does not need to be bound to a var, getting it read and evaled will suffice |
| 12:06 | justin_smith | bacon1989: clojure uses java datatypes |
| 12:06 | devn | what do people use for automatically rerunning specific clojure.test tests? |
| 12:06 | justin_smith | ,(class "hello") |
| 12:06 | clojurebot | java.lang.String |
| 12:06 | devn | (aka a watcher so I can edit a test, save, and have it rerun) |
| 12:06 | bacon1989 | justin_smith: but in my example, it's throwing an error |
| 12:06 | devn | like midje's `lein midje :autotest` |
| 12:07 | mdeboard | gfredericks: Here's how I wrote it (though I have that inner anon func broken out into a separate one) https://gist.github.com/mattdeboard/9e60a7dd4d101fa368dc |
| 12:07 | mdeboard | how would that be different with juxt |
| 12:07 | technomancy | devn: after-save-hooks |
| 12:07 | justin_smith | bacon1989: you are calling foo with one string |
| 12:07 | justin_smith | you should be calling it with two strings |
| 12:08 | justin_smith | because it takes two string args |
| 12:08 | justin_smith | (line 37) |
| 12:08 | bacon1989 | justin_smith: ah yes, I changed it |
| 12:08 | bacon1989 | it's failing before that though |
| 12:09 | bacon1989 | i can't get the eval.invoke(... to work correctly |
| 12:09 | bacon1989 | it expects a 'form' |
| 12:09 | justin_smith | bacon1989: the string you pass to read_string has two forms |
| 12:10 | bacon1989 | the error is along the lines of java.lang.UnsupportedOperationException: can't load this type of class file, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0) |
| 12:10 | justin_smith | ,(read-string "(ns user) (defn foo)") |
| 12:10 | clojurebot | (ns user) |
| 12:10 | justin_smith | notice it only gets the first form |
| 12:11 | justin_smith | you need to split that into one string per form |
| 12:11 | bacon1989 | ok, i'll give it a shot |
| 12:11 | justin_smith | (this is probably not addressing your problem at hand, it is another error in your code) |
| 12:13 | justin_smith | another nitpick - that map.invoke should not actually do anything, because you are not using the return value and map is lazy |
| 12:15 | bacon1989 | justin_smith: they're tests, but yeah |
| 12:16 | bacon1989 | i read something stating that what I want to do is impossible with dalvik |
| 12:16 | justin_smith | OK |
| 12:16 | justin_smith | maybe try this with the jvm first |
| 12:16 | justin_smith | for sanity's sake? |
| 12:16 | justin_smith | then if you have a working java version, then see how dalvik handles it? |
| 12:20 | Glenjamin | to people tend to use tools.trace, or is there a better way of introspecting 3rd-party code when debugging? |
| 12:27 | arrdem | if you're feeling brave you could try single stepping with eclj... |
| 12:27 | arrdem | but tracer or tools.trace seems to be the current goto |
| 12:28 | Glenjamin | cheers, is there any tooling for jumping to source quickly as well? |
| 12:28 | bbloom | arrdem: there's no way to single-step with eclj :-( |
| 12:28 | arrdem | bbloom: T_T |
| 12:28 | Glenjamin | i tried lein ubersource, but it appears that LT doesnt index target/ - will probably have to poke around the settings |
| 12:28 | bbloom | arrdem: eventually the meta-circular interpreter will be able to do that |
| 12:28 | bbloom | arrdem: by treating "eval" as an effect you can intercept |
| 12:29 | arrdem | bbloom: hum... really I just want to see a single cycle interpreter built using TANAL's ASTs. |
| 12:30 | arrdem | 'cause then we can build a real GDB like debugger. |
| 12:32 | bbloom | arrdem: if you want to attach to & debug running jvm programs, you need a very different approach than eclj or whatever you could do with an analyzer's ast |
| 12:32 | bbloom | you need to have origin information on the bytecode |
| 12:32 | Glenjamin | arrdem: when you said tracer, were you referring to clojure.contrib, or something else? |
| 12:32 | bbloom | arrdem: similar to source maps for js |
| 12:33 | bbloom | arrdem: debugging with an interpreter is a very different approach |
| 12:33 | arrdem | bbloom: for debugging JVM interop sure. |
| 12:33 | arrdem | s/JVM/$HOST/g |
| 12:35 | visof | hello |
| 12:36 | AWizzArd | Hi visof. |
| 12:37 | mdeboard | hi |
| 12:37 | mdeboard | visof |
| 12:37 | mdeboard | we have awaited your return, as the prophecy foretold |
| 12:37 | arrdem | heh |
| 12:38 | alejandro | hey there, does anyone have a good way of setting environment variables via clojure? |
| 12:39 | visof | if i have a string with this format "<x> <y> \"Hello\"\n<xx> <yy> \"hello\nworld.\"\n<a> <b> <z>\n" , how can i get triples [["<x>" "<y>" \"Hello\"], ["<xx>" "<yy>" \"hello\nworld.\"], ["<a>" "<b>" "<z>"]] ? |
| 12:40 | technomancy | alejandro: you can't set env vars on the jvm |
| 12:40 | visof | even if the string big but in this format |
| 12:40 | justin_smith | alejandro: there are hacks, via interop, but it simply isn't an operation that is portable to all jvm hosing operating systems |
| 12:40 | gtrak | alejandro: what do you mean setting? for processes that are started via the JVM? |
| 12:40 | justin_smith | alejandro: this is why people use System/setProperty and System/getProperty |
| 12:41 | alejandro | gtrak: just for the clojure process itself. it's really for unit testing more than anything else |
| 12:41 | justin_smith | this is withing your own process that is, you can trivially set env for a child though |
| 12:41 | gfredericks | mdeboard: you would just say (group-by (apply juxt ks) m) |
| 12:41 | alejandro | justin_smith: cool, I'll look at those and see if I can use them for what I need |
| 12:41 | justin_smith | then use System properties instead of environment |
| 12:41 | gfredericks | mdeboard: or in your earlier example, (group-by (juxt :id :banana) [...]) |
| 12:41 | gtrak | alejandro: use environ to grab system properties conveniently. |
| 12:41 | mdeboard | gfredericks: Well cool |
| 12:41 | gfredericks | mdeboard: note that group-by takes an arbitrary function, not a key |
| 12:43 | Glenjamin | visof: a couple of clojure.string/split calls should do it |
| 12:43 | visof | Glenjamin: there is a newlines inside strings |
| 12:43 | visof | \"hello\nworld.\" |
| 12:44 | bacon1989 | I wonder if I can grab the clojure file generated from lein-droid, and use it normally like clojure.jar for the JVM |
| 12:44 | mdeboard | gfredericks: Although that doesn't quite fit my use case w/o writing more code, but that is useful info |
| 12:44 | alejandro | gtrak: justin_smith: so is it better to do config options via system properties for JVM apps? |
| 12:44 | alejandro | e.g. port settings or database urls? |
| 12:45 | justin_smith | alejandro: if you want to change them from within the same process, yes |
| 12:45 | Glenjamin | visof: i see, you probably want to take a CSV parsing library and tell it that spaces are commas |
| 12:45 | gfredericks | mdeboard: it does what you were asking about though, right? |
| 12:45 | mdeboard | Though that's really close. I essentially want an inverted index for a collection of hash maps, and your example gets that. |
| 12:46 | Glenjamin | alejandro: you can read environment variables for those cases, why do you need to set them? |
| 12:46 | justin_smith | alejandro: though a common idiom for that stuff is to use a "config map" in clojure, which is a map (or atom around a map) in a var that is accessed by or passed to various code |
| 12:46 | mdeboard | There's just a couple more transformations I'd need to apply (e.g. (for [[k v] ...] (set k) (vals v))) |
| 12:46 | Glenjamin | PORT=1234 lein run |
| 12:46 | Glenjamin | etc |
| 12:46 | justin_smith | Glenjamin: he mentioned testing |
| 12:46 | alejandro | Glenjamin: yeah, mostly just to be able to test those settings |
| 12:47 | Glenjamin | ah, so you can always alter-var-root #'environ/env |
| 12:47 | justin_smith | alejandro: another thing is if you make an abstraction around the config grabber, you can make it return an arbitrary value for tests |
| 12:47 | gfredericks | mdeboard: prismatic/plumbing has some useful map creation fns |
| 12:47 | Glenjamin | or as justin_smith said, wrap access to env via a var you're happy to modify - or pass the env into you app, and pass it differently for tests |
| 12:48 | stuartsierra | k |
| 12:48 | hyPiRion | Glenjamin: You mean with-redefs I presume? |
| 12:48 | hyPiRion | alter-var-root changes it permanently. |
| 12:48 | Glenjamin | depends on scope i guess, i have an alter-var-root at the top of my scratch repl for when i forget to set up env vars |
| 12:48 | mdeboard | gfredericks: I think for now I'm ok with my group-by-many, does what I need and is concise-enough for me to not be ashamed of it haha https://gist.github.com/mattdeboard/9e60a7dd4d101fa368dc |
| 12:48 | hyPiRion | Glenjamin: right, I was thinking about for tests |
| 12:49 | Glenjamin | depends if its tests in a subset of repl, or tests in their own process i suppose |
| 12:49 | Glenjamin | but yeah, with-redefs makes more sense |
| 12:50 | deathknight | Similar to Nelson Morris, are there any other programmers publicly looking to periodically pair with others? (src: http://nelsonmorris.net/2014/04/07/saturday-remote-pairing.html) |
| 12:51 | arrdem | deathknight: 404'd |
| 12:51 | justin_smith | deathknight: some local clojerks pdx folks have been doing something similar I think |
| 12:51 | bacon1989 | one thing I really can't figure out, why don't people include a binary of their work? |
| 12:51 | bacon1989 | I found this: https://github.com/clojure-android/clojure |
| 12:51 | justin_smith | arrdem: in erc I had to take off the ) manually |
| 12:51 | bacon1989 | which should work with dalvik, but there's no included .jar file? |
| 12:51 | deathknight | :) |
| 12:51 | arrdem | justin_smith: herp a derp. good catch. |
| 12:51 | bacon1989 | is there some sortof benefit to compiling something like this |
| 12:52 | gfredericks | mdeboard: oh yeah, your function is different in a couple ways |
| 12:52 | bacon1989 | it's going to be a running in a runtime that isn't going to change |
| 12:52 | justin_smith | bacon1989: mvn -q package inside that repo should do the trick |
| 12:52 | justin_smith | I think |
| 12:52 | gfredericks | mdeboard: if you care about perf you probably want to change that to an (into {} ...) |
| 12:52 | gfredericks | instead of merge |
| 12:53 | mdeboard | gfredericks: Why's that? |
| 12:53 | mdeboard | idk the perf profile of assorted techniques |
| 12:53 | arrdem | mdeboard: into leverages transients where merge doesn't. |
| 12:53 | justin_smith | mdeboard: into uses transients, merge does not |
| 12:53 | mdeboard | Does it have something to do with transients? |
| 12:53 | arrdem | lololol |
| 12:53 | Glenjamin | i think its transients |
| 12:53 | justin_smith | and as we all know, hobos work hard |
| 12:54 | mdeboard | I asked last night about transients, not clear what that means exactly |
| 12:54 | arrdem | ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ GIVE TRANSIENTS ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ |
| 12:54 | mdeboard | It was like `set` vs. `set!` |
| 12:54 | arrdem | /s |
| 12:54 | arrdem | mdeboard: transients are explicitly single threaded mutable datastructures that can be finalized to normal immutable collections |
| 12:55 | hyPiRion | Transients are the best |
| 12:55 | mdeboard | arrdem: "Finalized"? |
| 12:55 | justin_smith | mdeboard: transients are for usage in place in a local context where there can be no threading issues, and they are modified instead of copied |
| 12:55 | mdeboard | I'm reading clojure.org/transients atm |
| 12:55 | mdeboard | Ah I see |
| 12:55 | justin_smith | ok, that will explain it better than we do |
| 12:55 | hyPiRion | mdeboard: any "update" operation on a transient invalidates the transient and returns a new one. |
| 12:56 | hyPiRion | well, it should, at least. |
| 12:56 | arrdem | hyPiRion: whaaa I thought the whole point was update in place, which defeats that. |
| 12:56 | arrdem | s/defeats/conflicts with/g |
| 12:56 | mdeboard | So, it's killing transients |
| 12:56 | bacon1989 | brb |
| 12:56 | gfredericks | hyPiRion: that sounds pretty wrong |
| 12:57 | justin_smith | arrdem: technically transients are "allowed" to update in place |
| 12:57 | gfredericks | almost all updates on a transient return the same object |
| 12:57 | gfredericks | just not guaranteed to |
| 12:57 | justin_smith | but they are not bound to |
| 12:57 | justin_smith | you must use the return value of all transient ops |
| 12:57 | arrdem | hum... |
| 12:57 | hyPiRion | gfredericks: I don't mean the implementation detail, rather |
| 12:57 | arrdem | this seems like a poor choice of update semantics.. |
| 12:57 | gfredericks | clojurebot: transients update operations |return| the same object except in this one case |
| 12:57 | clojurebot | c'est bon! |
| 12:58 | arrdem | that doesn't even work... you can't express the "invalidation" of an object on the JVM. I can still totally hold a pointer to the "old" value and you can't force me to give it up |
| 12:59 | arrdem | you can write your API such that the old value is subsequently useless/self-banning... but why... |
| 12:59 | arrdem | it's not like you can (memset &obj 0) |
| 13:00 | hyPiRion | arrdem: Sure, you cannot express the invalidation on the JVM, but it's there semantically (not technically, because you can usually bash in place) |
| 13:01 | hyPiRion | the general idea is that any update operation on a transient "invalidates" it and that the return value must be used in its place if you want to continue to do update it |
| 13:02 | mdeboard | I changed (apply merge to (into {} |
| 13:02 | mdeboard | No transients were killed |
| 13:02 | arrdem | I guess the point of this is that it forces the update semantics of transients to mesh with those of normal datastructures so you don't have silly people like me trying to abuse in-place update behavior to build fully mutable datastructures and to in-place updates on them. |
| 13:03 | arrdem | your code has to be functional in structure, it just _happens_ that the implementation details provide update in place. |
| 13:03 | hyPiRion | right |
| 13:03 | mdeboard | so I assume into is a macro that calls persistent! |
| 13:03 | justin_smith | arrdem: more likely, its the fact that persistant needs to be a single bit flip operation |
| 13:03 | gfredericks | they don't all the time though; people come in with bugs because they bash transients |
| 13:03 | mdeboard | ,(docs into) |
| 13:03 | clojurebot | #<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: docs in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)> |
| 13:03 | mdeboard | whatever idiot |
| 13:03 | hyPiRion | gfredericks: yeah |
| 13:03 | arrdem | justin_smith: well there's that too. |
| 13:03 | justin_smith | arrdem: and because of this you have to keep the persistent semantics, including the ability to return a new object sometimes |
| 13:03 | gfredericks | ,(let [t (transient {})] (dotimes [n 40] (conj! t n n)) (persistent! t)) |
| 13:04 | clojurebot | #<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (3) passed to: core/conj!> |
| 13:04 | gfredericks | ,(let [t (transient {})] (dotimes [n 40] (assoc! t n n)) (persistent! t)) |
| 13:04 | clojurebot | {0 0, 1 1, 2 2, 3 3, 4 4, ...} |
| 13:04 | mdeboard | lol |
| 13:04 | hyPiRion | gfredericks: return its length |
| 13:04 | gfredericks | ,(let [t (transient {})] (dotimes [n 40] (assoc! t n n)) (keys (persistent! t))) |
| 13:04 | clojurebot | (0 1 2 3 4 ...) |
| 13:04 | mdeboard | all this sturm und drang for a Ticket To Ride simulator |
| 13:04 | justin_smith | or reduce + on it |
| 13:04 | gfredericks | ,(let [t (transient {})] (dotimes [n 40] (assoc! t n n)) (reduce +(keys (persistent! t)))) |
| 13:04 | clojurebot | 28 |
| 13:05 | gfredericks | the lesson is that some of the keys turned negative |
| 13:05 | arrdem | wat |
| 13:05 | cbp | does leiningen let you inject code in files? |
| 13:05 | justin_smith | lol |
| 13:06 | justin_smith | cbp that sounds like a terrible idea |
| 13:06 | justin_smith | but I am sure you could do it with some system calls in an :injection key in proejct.clj |
| 13:06 | justin_smith | but don't please? |
| 13:06 | cbp | justin_smith: i know but.. clojurescript |
| 13:06 | mdeboard | ¸ . ø ¤ º ° º ¤ ø . ¸ justclojurethings ø ¤ º ° º ¤ ø . ¸ |
| 13:06 | justin_smith | maybe what you really want is a preprocessor plugin, and to use its output? |
| 13:07 | technomancy | cbp: not into files, but into any given eval-in-project call |
| 13:07 | arrdem | justin_smith: :injections come on get it right /s |
| 13:07 | cbp | okies |
| 13:07 | eraserhd | What is the recommended way to make a custom exception? :gen-class or proxy? |
| 13:08 | technomancy | custom exceptions are =( |
| 13:08 | eraserhd | I'm going to suspect :gen-class, but that's kind of icky. |
| 13:08 | technomancy | definitely icky |
| 13:08 | technomancy | use ex-info instead |
| 13:08 | eraserhd | Aha. |
| 13:08 | eraserhd | That sounds like what I'm trying to do anyway. |
| 13:09 | justin_smith | arrdem: sorry, an :injections key just parsed wrong mentally, but you're right |
| 13:09 | justin_smith | eraserhd: probably ex-info, or maybe reify |
| 13:09 | gfredericks | how can I debug where the deps on my leiningen vm are coming from? |
| 13:09 | gfredericks | like `lein deps :tree` for plugins&stuff |
| 13:10 | justin_smith | gfredericks: there is a mvn command for plugin dep tree |
| 13:10 | justin_smith | dunno about lein though |
| 13:10 | technomancy | gfredericks: right now you have to just move :plugins to :dependencies |
| 13:11 | root | hi, how do i perm change value in list ? |
| 13:11 | justin_smith | technomancy: that's too bad |
| 13:11 | justin_smith | root: make a different list, or use a java.util.ArrayList and maybe you shouldn't be using clojure |
| 13:11 | eraserhd | technomancy, justin_smith: Exactly what I'm looking for, thanks. |
| 13:11 | technomancy | justin_smith: nah, it's a golden opportunity for a new contributor to step up |
| 13:12 | gfredericks | technomancy: kthx |
| 13:12 | justin_smith | heh |
| 13:12 | umpa | justin_smith good point |
| 13:15 | umpa | if I name new list by same name as old one, what happens to the old list ? |
| 13:15 | justin_smith | umpa: if it is not bound in some other scope, it can be garbage collected |
| 13:17 | justin_smith | umpa: if you have some ns level var that needs to be updated, it should be wrapped in an atom or ref, rather than just calling def again |
| 13:17 | umpa | how ? |
| 13:17 | justin_smith | ,(def l (atom ())) |
| 13:17 | clojurebot | #'sandbox/l |
| 13:17 | alndvsza | Can anyone help me with a problem I am having with Korma? |
| 13:17 | clgv | thats the right moment to suggest one of the books or online tutorials ;) |
| 13:17 | cbp | ~anyone |
| 13:17 | clojurebot | anyone is anybody |
| 13:17 | justin_smith | ,(swap! l conj 1) |
| 13:17 | clojurebot | (1) |
| 13:17 | cbp | ~botsmack |
| 13:17 | clojurebot | clojurebot evades successfully! |
| 13:18 | clgv | ~anybody |
| 13:18 | clojurebot | Just a heads up, you're more likely to get some help if you ask the question you really want the answer to, instead of "does anyone ..." |
| 13:18 | justin_smith | clgv: good point about the books / tutorials |
| 13:18 | clgv | cbp: listen to the bot ;) |
| 13:18 | alndvsza | lol |
| 13:19 | alndvsza | i create a new app with using luminus, when i try do a select on a mysql table called user, i get the following error: check the manual that corresponds to your MySQL server version for the right syntax to use near '.* FROM "users" WHERE ("users"."id" = 1) LIMIT 1 |
| 13:19 | alndvsza | its like the SELECt is being left off the front? |
| 13:20 | justin_smith | alndvsza: can you make a paste of the relevant part of your code? |
| 13:22 | umpa | (def 1 (atom ())) did not work for some reason |
| 13:22 | umpa | (def 1 (atom ())) |
| 13:23 | AWizzArd | umpa: that would be in Java something like: 1 = new java.util.HashMap(); |
| 13:23 | alndvsza | justin_smith: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/f9a12fb49bd8585c4738 |
| 13:23 | AWizzArd | umpa: you can’t change the value of 1. |
| 13:23 | clgv | umpa: there are pretty good introductory books and online resources about clojure that would save you a lot of pain (judging from that question) |
| 13:23 | justin_smith | AWizzArd: more like ArrayList :) |
| 13:23 | alndvsza | its the defualt code from the luminus template |
| 13:23 | justin_smith | sorry, I picked a bad name for it when I used l in my example, my bad |
| 13:24 | justin_smith | but still l != 1 |
| 13:25 | clgv | justin_smith: that's a fun choice for a variable name in a written exam choosing the "appropriate" font. you only need to use it in some numerical comparisons :D |
| 13:25 | justin_smith | heh |
| 13:26 | alndvsza | (sql-only (select users (limit 1))) returns "SELECT \"users\".* FROM \"users\" LIMIT 1", wtf |
| 13:26 | justin_smith | weird |
| 13:28 | alndvsza | if i run that line without sql-only i get the error.... use near '.* FROM "users" LIMIT 1' at line 1 |
| 13:28 | alndvsza | *hits head on table* |
| 13:29 | umpa | how do I update value in a hash-map ? |
| 13:29 | justin_smith | umpa: I think you should find a good tutorial on immutability and data structures in clojure |
| 13:30 | umpa | justin_smith I tried going clojure Koans but still have trouble grassping some of the concepts |
| 13:31 | justin_smith | clojure can be great, but it requires a different approach to programming, where instead of mutating some variable, you pass values to functions that return another value as a result |
| 13:31 | cbp | umpa: maybe try this http://aphyr.com/posts/301-clojure-from-the-ground-up-welcome |
| 13:31 | johnwalker | send-off uses a fixed-size threadpool |
| 13:31 | johnwalker | how are the actions being sent to the threadpool allocated? |
| 13:32 | justin_smith | cbp: nice link, bookmarking for future reference, thanks |
| 13:32 | johnwalker | is it first come first serve? |
| 13:33 | johnwalker | for example, if i have multiple agents |
| 13:33 | alndvsza | anyone using Clojure with mysql that can give me an alternative to korma? |
| 13:33 | mdeboard | alndvsza: jdbc direct? |
| 13:33 | johnwalker | actually nevermind, i get how it works |
| 13:33 | justin_smith | alndvsza: if you have some sql knowledge, clojure.java.jdbc is fine |
| 13:33 | johnwalker | there's one global threadpool but each agent has its own queue |
| 13:33 | justin_smith | johnwalker: exactly |
| 13:33 | johnwalker | that makes sense, sorry. rubber-ducking |
| 13:33 | alndvsza | ah, alright |
| 13:34 | johnwalker | thanks justin_smith |
| 13:34 | johnwalker | thats a pretty solid way to do it |
| 13:34 | hyPiRion | alndvsza: I like yesql, you could check that out |
| 13:34 | alndvsza | i will indeed |
| 13:34 | justin_smith | johnwalker: http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/agent the docs here are for an old version but not out of date |
| 13:35 | justin_smith | also you can get a lot from the links here, if you haven't seen it http://clojure.org/cheatsheet |
| 13:37 | johnwalker | ahh, i did see those |
| 13:37 | johnwalker | clojuredocs is the w3schools of clojure these days |
| 13:37 | canweriotnow | lol |
| 13:37 | justin_smith | now now, it's not that bad |
| 13:38 | umpa | nice thanks for the links guys |
| 13:38 | johnwalker | it's not that bad, but there are a striking similarities |
| 13:39 | alndvsza | hah, this is quite a novel approach, SQL in sql files! |
| 13:39 | johnwalker | clojuredocs is the first hit on google and whenever i click it by accident i bounce |
| 13:39 | justin_smith | johnwalker: there is always clojure.repl/source |
| 13:40 | johnwalker | why don't i use that more often |
| 13:40 | johnwalker | that told me accidentally what i needed to know lol |
| 13:40 | johnwalker | er |
| 13:40 | johnwalker | exactly* |
| 13:41 | johnwalker | i wish that worked with java classes too |
| 13:41 | technomancy | or M-. if you're in cider |
| 13:41 | justin_smith | you hotshots and your unstable almost-working editor integrated tooling |
| 13:41 | johnwalker | M-. throws an error ._. |
| 13:42 | johnwalker | wrong type argument sequencep |
| 13:42 | technomancy | well, assuming a stable version of cider =( |
| 13:42 | johnwalker | oh, it DOES work |
| 13:42 | johnwalker | it jumps to source |
| 13:42 | justin_smith | johnwalker: all the problems that are not caused by having too old a version of cider, are caused by having too new a version of cider |
| 13:42 | justin_smith | ther is no stable version |
| 13:42 | johnwalker | it just throws an error if there isn't a string at point |
| 13:43 | gtrak | johnwalker: M-. will work with java in recent ciders, but you need the source artifacts in your dependencies. |
| 13:43 | technomancy | justin_smith: 0.5.0 has treated me well |
| 13:44 | sdegutis | does anyone else pronounce "fn" as "effin"? |
| 13:44 | technomancy | which is coincidentally the version on marmalade |
| 13:44 | sdegutis | or is it just no one? |
| 13:44 | gtrak | sdegutis: yes |
| 13:44 | gtrak | defn and fn rhyme |
| 13:44 | justin_smith | technomancy: cool, I will maybe check it out sometime - I am subscribed to their github issues and have a timer set to check out the latest stable whenever the "everything broke" messages stop coming |
| 13:44 | johnwalker | gtrak: i will have to look into that because that sounds extremely good |
| 13:45 | gtrak | johnwalker: it's quite magic |
| 13:45 | gtrak | we'll have a stable release soon! |
| 13:45 | justin_smith | gtrak: and I know you've been pushing for that, and I am grateful |
| 13:45 | gtrak | on the order of weeks. |
| 13:45 | technomancy | justin_smith: it's really unfortunate that the docs recommend melpa =( |
| 13:45 | cbp | :-( |
| 13:45 | gtrak | justin_smith: yea, gotta break a few eggs. |
| 13:46 | cbp | bbastov has a thing for melpa. His prelude thing defaults to it |
| 13:46 | technomancy | cbp: he also has a pretty severe disregard for stability |
| 13:46 | technomancy | the two seem to go hand-in-hand |
| 13:46 | arrdem | technomancy: "pretty severe" would seem to be an understatement. |
| 13:47 | technomancy | arrdem: I keep telling myself "at least there is a maintainer now" |
| 13:47 | gtrak | yea.. he assumes everyone using cider is like him. |
| 13:47 | gtrak | riding git emacs and melpa for everything :-) |
| 13:48 | gtrak | and caring about emacs |
| 13:48 | johnwalker | to be fair, bbatsov is a boss |
| 13:48 | gtrak | I've found him very pleasant, actually, I just have to keep on top of stability or there would be even less than there is. |
| 13:49 | hiredman | in what sense? |
| 13:49 | gtrak | like, they added an ASM dep which broke cider-nrepl a while back, for the java navigation. |
| 13:49 | gtrak | since large java projects contain something that contains ASM |
| 13:50 | gtrak | now it uses the java compiler API anyway. |
| 13:52 | gtrak | gfredericks: any luck on tools.nrepl since we last talked? |
| 13:52 | gtrak | I'll probably hit it this week. |
| 13:52 | nullptr | t |
| 13:52 | gfredericks | gtrak: nopes |
| 13:56 | lemonodor | technomancy: the new version of lein looks great. i was excited to try “lein release” but i’ve tried it on 2 different packages of mine, on os x and linux, with a clean ~/.lein/profiles.clj, and in each case it dies with a StackOverflowError: https://www.refheap.com/86444 |
| 13:56 | lemonodor | any idea what i might be doing wrong? |
| 13:58 | technomancy | lemonodor: yeah, this is a bug that only manifests from the uberjar of the 2.4.0 release: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/issues/1554 |
| 13:58 | technomancy | will push out a 2.4.1 release soon; in the mean time you can run from a checkout of lein |
| 13:59 | gfredericks | having some trouble haxing lein |
| 13:59 | gfredericks | I wanted to change the pomegranate dependency and run lein that way |
| 13:59 | lemonodor | technomancy: perfect, thanks |
| 13:59 | gfredericks | so I'm using the /bin/lein in the leiningen project to launch it |
| 13:59 | gfredericks | but am not seeing the changed dep |
| 13:59 | gfredericks | also if I tweak the version string in /project.clj, `lein --version` doesn't change |
| 14:02 | technomancy | gfredericks: try running `lein install` from the leiningen-core dir |
| 14:03 | gfredericks | ROGER |
| 14:06 | gfredericks | I think I have offended leiningen |
| 14:07 | arrdem | the gods frown |
| 14:07 | mdeboard | heyyyyyyyyyy satan! |
| 14:07 | mdeboard | (south park) |
| 14:07 | mdeboard | ,(south park) |
| 14:07 | clojurebot | #<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: south in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)> |
| 14:07 | gfredericks | you know what I bet I can accomplish this by just sneaking an alternate jar of the same version of pomegranate into ~/.m2 |
| 14:08 | gfredericks | what could possibly go wrong |
| 14:08 | technomancy | checksums |
| 14:09 | arrdem | (inc technomancy) |
| 14:09 | gfredericks | urm |
| 14:09 | lazybot | ⇒ 112 |
| 14:09 | gfredericks | will they necessarily go wrong? |
| 14:09 | arrdem | good lord |
| 14:09 | gfredericks | I just need some way to debug my damn build tool |
| 14:09 | arrdem | Raynes: did you patch karma to be shared? |
| 14:09 | arrdem | $karma arrdem] |
| 14:09 | lazybot | arrdem] has karma 0. |
| 14:09 | mdeboard | $karma arrdem |
| 14:09 | lazybot | arrdem has karma 29. |
| 14:09 | arrdem | that would be a yes |
| 14:09 | mdeboard | $karma mdeboard |
| 14:09 | lazybot | mdeboard has karma 6. |
| 14:09 | mdeboard | :( |
| 14:09 | Raynes | arrdem: That's not a bug, it's a feature. |
| 14:10 | Raynes | Karma was always meant to be per-channel. |
| 14:10 | arrdem | Raynes: I didn't say it was a bug, it was just unexpected behavior. |
| 14:10 | Raynes | We're talking about shared karma between channels? |
| 14:10 | cbp | $karma cbp |
| 14:10 | lazybot | cbp has karma 8. |
| 14:10 | arrdem | oh. herp derp. I'm thinking I'm in -offtopic |
| 14:10 | cbp | take that mdeboard !!! |
| 14:10 | gfredericks | arrdem: quick quick say something about clojure |
| 14:10 | mdeboard | (dec cbp) |
| 14:10 | lazybot | ⇒ 7 |
| 14:10 | mdeboard | (dec cbp) |
| 14:10 | lazybot | ⇒ 6 |
| 14:11 | mdeboard | $karma cbp |
| 14:11 | lazybot | cbp has karma 6. |
| 14:11 | arrdem | gfredericks: nope sorry I _am_ offtopic |
| 14:11 | cbp | wat |
| 14:11 | mdeboard | (+ 2 cbp) |
| 14:11 | mdeboard | (inc cbp) |
| 14:11 | lazybot | ⇒ 7 |
| 14:11 | cbp | who will stand for this injustice! |
| 14:11 | mdeboard | (inc cbp) |
| 14:11 | lazybot | Do I smell abuse? Wait a while before modifying that person's karma again. |
| 14:11 | mdeboard | lol, sorry. |
| 14:13 | mdeboard | (inc cbp) |
| 14:13 | lazybot | Do I smell abuse? Wait a while before modifying that person's karma again. |
| 14:13 | mdeboard | fine. |
| 14:13 | Raynes | Lazybot don't mess around |
| 14:14 | arrdem | strictest lazy bot ever |
| 14:14 | gfredericks | does leiningen not get its own dependencies from ~/.m2? |
| 14:15 | technomancy | gfredericks: bootstrapping lein is tricky. it has to cache its classpath in order to be self-hosting. |
| 14:15 | technomancy | see the .lein-classpath file in the checkout |
| 14:15 | gfredericks | I'm using a regular install now |
| 14:15 | gfredericks | does it use an uberjar? |
| 14:15 | technomancy | yeah |
| 14:15 | gfredericks | consarnit |
| 14:15 | gfredericks | there goes that tactic |
| 14:16 | gfredericks | is there a way I can sneak a user.clj onto the classpath? |
| 14:16 | technomancy | you need a checkout for that |
| 14:16 | technomancy | the uberjar is on the bootclasspath |
| 14:17 | technomancy | for speeeeeeed reasons |
| 14:17 | gfredericks | wait can't I add to the classpath by messing with my lein script? |
| 14:18 | technomancy | you can, but the bootclasspath always wins over regular classpaths |
| 14:18 | gfredericks | does leiningen supply a user.clj though? |
| 14:18 | gfredericks | can't I still sneak in a monkeypatch before leiningen's clojure code actually runs? |
| 14:20 | gfredericks | haha it worked |
| 14:20 | arrdem | (inc crowbars) |
| 14:20 | lazybot | ⇒ 1 |
| 14:20 | gfredericks | no monkeys are safe from my patches now |
| 14:21 | gfredericks | problem solved |
| 14:21 | gfredericks | technomancy: thanks |
| 14:21 | gfredericks | (inc technomancy) |
| 14:21 | lazybot | ⇒ 113 |
| 14:22 | dgleeson | hello all. I'm wrote a middleware that does authorization. It requires that my war be installed in the main application, because it handles putting a Shiro subject on the session. This is causing a bunch of my unit tests to fail. I've been trying to figure out a way to only load that middleware when I'm in the tests that test it, and disable the middleware when I'm not testing the middleware. If I just try to define the (handler/app routes) again compoj |
| 14:35 | devn | ,(* 3. 2.) |
| 14:35 | clojurebot | 6.0 |
| 14:35 | devn | wat |
| 14:37 | johnwalker | dev you reminded me of cedric greevey's trick |
| 14:37 | johnwalker | ,(def .3 0.4) |
| 14:37 | clojurebot | #'sandbox/.3 |
| 14:37 | johnwalker | ,(+ .3 0.4) |
| 14:37 | clojurebot | 0.8 |
| 14:38 | gfredericks | leiningen in duplicating the mirrors list before passing it to pomegranate |
| 14:40 | justin_smith | dgleeson: make a middleware wrapper that passes the handler unchanged under one env, and does the proper action in the other |
| 14:40 | justin_smith | dgleeson: then of course give it its own independent unit test (middleware are just data transforms, so this is trivial) |
| 14:41 | justin_smith | (fn [handler] (fn [request] (if should-wrap? (f (handler request)) (handler request)))) |
| 14:44 | dgleeson | justin_smith: I'll give it a go. Thanks!! |
| 14:46 | gfredericks | woooh it is meta-merge |
| 14:46 | gfredericks | there's a lein that merges the project map with a modified version of itself |
| 14:47 | justin_smith | itself meaning lein? |
| 14:47 | justin_smith | (if only) |
| 14:47 | gfredericks | lein does (meta-merge project (assoc project ...)) |
| 14:47 | gfredericks | this should be okay for mirrors because it's a map |
| 14:47 | gfredericks | and (merge m m) should give you m |
| 14:47 | gfredericks | but somebody has transformed the map into a seq of kvpairs |
| 14:47 | gfredericks | so it turns into duplicates that offends pomegranate |
| 14:47 | gfredericks | so my question is |
| 14:48 | gfredericks | which is the real problem? leiningen merging a project with itself, or the mirrors entry getting de-mapped? |
| 14:49 | justin_smith | it sounds to me like the mirrors entry being de-mapped is a bug |
| 14:50 | gfredericks | it seems weird to me to expect that merging a project with itself will never cause problems |
| 14:51 | gfredericks | unless projects are assumed to belong to a semilattice amirite distributed systems hipsters haha wooo |
| 14:52 | gfredericks | maybe I'll try to figure out which one of these actually changed in the new release |
| 14:53 | gfredericks | the self-merge: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/master/leiningen-core/src/leiningen/core/project.clj#L631-633 |
| 14:54 | gfredericks | looks like the self-merge is new in 2.4.0 |
| 14:55 | gfredericks | and I bet the same effect could be gotten by merging with a single-entry-map instead of associng onto the project and merging that back into the project |
| 15:01 | justin_smith | gfredericks: sounds like you have enough info to write a failing unit test that demonstrates the issue |
| 15:02 | amalloy | gfredericks: mirrors gets turned into a seq of kv pairs for the same reason that dependencies and repos do: so that you can specify precedence |
| 15:02 | amalloy | the canonical format is a seq of pairs; that project.clj accepts a map is just for user convenience in the most ocmmon case where you don't care about order |
| 15:02 | gfredericks | amalloy: good to know |
| 15:02 | amalloy | or, anyway, i know that's true of deps and repos, and assume from your conversation that it applies to mirrors to |
| 15:02 | amalloy | o |
| 15:03 | gfredericks | my guess is that this self merge is not necessary |
| 15:03 | technomancy | gfredericks: oh man, that is weird |
| 15:04 | gfredericks | technomancy: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/commit/f5305ab47b0953969b2b6a6822888e25fa8517c9 |
| 15:05 | technomancy | we need to meta-merge because :repositories or :plugin-repositories could have :replace or :displace |
| 15:05 | technomancy | but we don't want to do it to the whole map |
| 15:05 | gfredericks | right |
| 15:05 | gfredericks | so the second arg to meta-marge could be a singleton map? |
| 15:05 | gfredericks | via select-keys I guess? |
| 15:06 | technomancy | (update-in project [:repositories] meta-merge (:plugin-repositories project)) would be my instinct |
| 15:06 | gfredericks | technomancy: what's the best angle for regression-testing this? |
| 15:07 | gfredericks | maybe a high-level "I can run something on a project with a mirror"? |
| 15:07 | amalloy | technomancy: i think (meta-merge project {:repositories (:plugin-repositories project)}) is probably slightly better? |
| 15:07 | amalloy | i guess it's about the same, never mind |
| 15:09 | gfredericks | technomancy: any chance this would fit with the 2.4.1 you mentioned earlier? |
| 15:09 | technomancy | gfredericks: definitely going into 2.4.1 |
| 15:09 | technomancy | thanks for catching this |
| 15:09 | gfredericks | w0000h |
| 15:09 | bbloom | i'm having a hard time loading a google closure lib w/ cljs... i've followed dnolen_'s instructions here: http://lukevanderhart.com/2011/09/30/using-javascript-and-clojurescript.html but the library does not seem to get included in the output |
| 15:10 | technomancy | :mirrors would make a good regression test as would attempting to use a plugin that's in :plugin-repositories and not in ~/.m2 |
| 15:10 | dnolen_ | bbloom: got a gist of your ns form? |
| 15:11 | amalloy | technomancy: interestingly, because of the bizarre way that some-fn handles multiple arguments, https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/d8634b22/leiningen-core/src/leiningen/core/project.clj#L120 is equivalent to ((some-fn nil? displace? replace?) left right) |
| 15:11 | bbloom | dnolen_: it's this library: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/google/tracing-framework/master/shims/wtf-trace-closure.js and i'm simply doing (:require [WTF]) |
| 15:11 | cbp | ,(a/b/c) |
| 15:11 | clojurebot | #<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: No such namespace: a, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)> |
| 15:11 | technomancy | metamerge! http://www.deviantart.com/art/MEGAMERGE-Celled-199279278 |
| 15:11 | bbloom | dnolen_: manually invokign js-dependencies shows it finds the file |
| 15:12 | bbloom | aaahhh 404 in the network tab |
| 15:12 | bbloom | it's not copying it to the output, it's trying to use it from the resources directory |
| 15:13 | spei | Does anyone know if reducers/fold can parallelize over reducers/take? |
| 15:14 | dnolen_ | bbloom: (:require ...) likely won't work w/o deps.js |
| 15:14 | technomancy | gfredericks: can you test master? |
| 15:14 | gfredericks | ummm |
| 15:14 | gfredericks | let's see :) |
| 15:14 | bbloom | dnolen_: my browser is loading deps.js |
| 15:14 | stuartsierra | spei: reducer parallelism depends on the *source*, not what operations you do. |
| 15:14 | dnolen_ | bbloom: the dep.js for wtf-trace-closure.js? |
| 15:14 | dnolen_ | each library needs to provide it |
| 15:15 | dnolen_ | bbloom: even so, I'm not sure how good this stuff is since it's not something I've ever used |
| 15:15 | dnolen_ | it may need more work |
| 15:16 | bbloom | dnolen_: does the filename need to match the provide statement? |
| 15:16 | bbloom | ie do i need to rename to WTF.js ? |
| 15:16 | dnolen_ | bbloom: you may - that might have been part of cemerick's patch |
| 15:17 | bbloom | dnolen_: this is pretty hairy |
| 15:17 | dnolen_ | speaking of which it might be worth relaxing it if the library location can be determined from deps.js |
| 15:17 | cemerick | deps.js is only used for the goog stdlib stuff |
| 15:17 | dnolen_ | bbloom: well you have two resolutions mechanisms - google's laissez faire deps.js and the classpath |
| 15:18 | bbloom | dnolen_: ideally, i'd just like to stick a .js file in a particular place and have require just work |
| 15:18 | bbloom | is there a reason that can't happen? |
| 15:18 | cemerick | bbloom: yes, the name in :require has to match the goog.provide in the file, and the classpath location of the file |
| 15:18 | spei | here is an example where using reducers/take slows down a computation https://gist.github.com/ship561/8c8b1fa60a4937bbce8a |
| 15:18 | dnolen_ | bbloom: not really interested in allowing people put stuff in random locations |
| 15:19 | dnolen_ | bbloom: open to novel ideas on how to resolve libraries with non classpath layouts |
| 15:19 | dnolen_ | well google closure libraries |
| 15:19 | dnolen_ | not ClojureScript ones |
| 15:20 | bbloom | dnolen_: the way i hoped it worked (maybe it does work this way? kinda) is that i'd specify a search path of closure lib roots |
| 15:20 | gfredericks | technomancy: looks goooood |
| 15:20 | dnolen_ | bbloom: its needs to work for libs in JARs too |
| 15:20 | amalloy | have you tried looking at the source of r/take, spei? |
| 15:20 | bbloom | dnolen_: sure, that's jsut a search path with a ".jar:" in the filename :-) |
| 15:21 | dnolen_ | bbloom: not really excited about that |
| 15:21 | dnolen_ | bbloom: anyways this is a project |
| 15:21 | technomancy | gfredericks: thanks |
| 15:21 | bbloom | dnolen_: sure. don't care about solving the general problem right now... want to solve my particular issue |
| 15:22 | dnolen_ | bbloom: if you just want to solve your problem ... layout wtf into classpath conventions |
| 15:22 | bbloom | dnolen_: but i also need to serve the file so the browser can get it outside of advanced builds |
| 15:22 | stuartsierra | spei: Not sure, but `reducers/take` uses an Atom to keep track of how many values have been consumed, which may slow down the overall process. |
| 15:22 | bbloom | i have a /public/js directory, i guess ineed to add that to the class path? |
| 15:22 | dnolen_ | bbloom: however that won't work if the lib does the multiple provide thing which is sadly allowed by Closure |
| 15:22 | bbloom | dnolen_: it provides many things, bbut they are all within 'WTF' |
| 15:23 | dnolen_ | bbloom: why wouldn't you just have it be a part of your build? |
| 15:23 | dnolen_ | it's a 3rd party lib |
| 15:23 | spei | amalloy: I have tried looking at the source. I'm not that great with clojure but as far as I can tell, reducers/take returns a reducible which should allow r/fold to work in parallel |
| 15:23 | dnolen_ | pack into a JAR where the files respect classpath conventions |
| 15:23 | dnolen_ | done |
| 15:23 | bbloom | dnolen_: what does "part of your build" mean? |
| 15:23 | dnolen_ | bbloom: produce a JAR of the lib |
| 15:23 | bbloom | dnolen_: i can't get it to work without that added complexity... one step at a time |
| 15:23 | bbloom | the compiler can find it if i put it in /resources/WTF.js |
| 15:23 | spei | though this example is simple, once I use r/take, r/fold only uses 1 thread |
| 15:24 | dnolen_ | bbloom: anything else is going to be more complicated |
| 15:24 | bbloom | but the browser can't b/c i'm serving static js from /public/js/ |
| 15:24 | dnolen_ | bbloom: I'm telling you the simplest thing |
| 15:24 | dnolen_ | make it a part of your build |
| 15:24 | bbloom | dnolen_: how will that file get served to the browser then? |
| 15:24 | amalloy | spei: reducibles and foldables are separate things, and fold is a stronger requirement |
| 15:25 | dnolen_ | bbloom: like all your other CLJS files |
| 15:25 | bbloom | dnolen_: i'm serving them w/ a wrap-file handler from target/public |
| 15:25 | amalloy | in particular, most foldables must know exactly how large they are in order to divide and conquer efficiently. how can (take 5000 xs) be split up? how many items does it have? |
| 15:25 | bbloom | dnolen_: i don't want to serve all java resourdces |
| 15:25 | spei | oh. perhaps that is where I misunderstood on reducers work. |
| 15:26 | dnolen_ | bbloom: if the 3rd party lib is a part of your build everything magically works |
| 15:26 | gfredericks | technomancy: here's the other half of our issue: https://github.com/groupon/DotCi/issues/14 |
| 15:26 | stuartsierra | amalloy: (Thanks for taking on that answer.) |
| 15:26 | dnolen_ | there is not difference between JS libs and CLJS libs |
| 15:26 | bbloom | dnolen_: i don't understand what it means to be "part of my build" |
| 15:26 | dnolen_ | bbloom: if you include core.async as a dep, it's a part of your build |
| 15:26 | spei | well, I assumed that (take 5000 xs) would return a reducible of 5000 items |
| 15:26 | amalloy | but it doesn't! what if xs only has 10 elements? |
| 15:26 | dnolen_ | bbloom: core.async is a JAR that includes CLJS sources that respect classpath conventions |
| 15:26 | dnolen_ | bbloom: just do the same for this closure lib |
| 15:27 | bbloom | dnolen_: where do i put .js files in such a case? |
| 15:27 | bbloom | in the src dir? |
| 15:27 | spei | i see. thanks |
| 15:27 | dnolen_ | except it's just JS source that respect classpath conventions |
| 15:27 | dnolen_ | bbloom: oh yeah you can do that too |
| 15:27 | amalloy | and anyway, even if it did have over 5000 elements, it's not really feasible to communicate back to the foldable source which parts of itself to fold |
| 15:27 | dnolen_ | bbloom: just put the wtf source in your project in the write folders |
| 15:27 | dnolen_ | s/write/right |
| 15:27 | amalloy | you're welcome, stuartsierra. i'm a little fuzzier on this stuff than i was when i was submitting reducer patches, but i still remember enough to be useful |
| 15:28 | stuartsierra | amalloy: Not as fuzzy as I am, clearly. The distinction between foldable and reducible is one I missed. |
| 15:29 | bbloom | dnolen_: that doesn't seem to work. it's searching for src/WTF.js which doesn't make any sense |
| 15:29 | bbloom | dnolen_: js files seem to be treated very differently than cljs files |
| 15:29 | technomancy | gfredericks: have you tried checking bin/lein into your project? |
| 15:30 | gfredericks | um |
| 15:30 | gfredericks | hm |
| 15:30 | dnolen_ | bbloom: it should work, I've tested it a bit with my own stuff |
| 15:30 | dnolen_ | bbloom: I do note that wtf.js declares a single segment namespace |
| 15:30 | gfredericks | technomancy: that would require the CI server have something in the project on its PATH, no? which would be weird? |
| 15:30 | bbloom | dnolen_: is that an issue? |
| 15:30 | dnolen_ | which has seen very little love in the CLJS compiler |
| 15:30 | dnolen_ | bbloom: unknown, I never do it |
| 15:30 | bbloom | ugh. |
| 15:30 | dnolen_ | and most other people don't either |
| 15:31 | bbloom | well WTF.js is by a team at google... sooo |
| 15:31 | gfredericks | technomancy: unless you think it's likely it has <project>/bin on the path |
| 15:31 | technomancy | gfredericks: not assuming you control the command to initiate the ci run |
| 15:32 | gfredericks | oh hey |
| 15:32 | dnolen_ | bbloom: I don't have time to poke around at it today, but I can take a look on Friday |
| 15:32 | hyPiRion | gfredericks: hey I did some tricks to get hello swearjure working |
| 15:32 | gfredericks | technomancy: actually I think this is failing before it ever gets to my code; the CI server runs `lein pprint` for funsies |
| 15:32 | gfredericks | hyPiRion: legit tricks or cheating tricks? |
| 15:32 | bbloom | dnolen_: i'm going to try to get it working locally, but i would prefer to produce a cljs-wtf library that i can just add as a :dependency and :require |
| 15:32 | hyPiRion | gfredericks: legit -- https://github.com/hyPiRion/hello-swearjure/blob/master/.travis.yml |
| 15:33 | hyPiRion | I'm just dling lein, build and run it from a specific checkout |
| 15:33 | gfredericks | oh I thought you were talking about bootstrapping swearjure or something |
| 15:33 | dnolen_ | bbloom: sure, one fix at time though, and there are several here |
| 15:33 | gfredericks | yeah I do control the part that runs my build, but like I said this fails pre-build on `lein pprint` |
| 15:33 | hyPiRion | hrm, alright |
| 15:34 | hyPiRion | I just entered in the middle of the conversation |
| 15:36 | technomancy | gfredericks: checking in rebar is pretty common in the erlang world |
| 15:36 | technomancy | I can't see any downsides to doing the same for lein |
| 15:37 | technomancy | but I haven't tried it |
| 15:37 | technomancy | except for lein, which obviously has bin/lein checked in =) |
| 15:39 | stuartsierra | I used to check in bin/lein around the time of the 1.x => 2.x transition. |
| 15:39 | stuartsierra | Specifically for CI builds, as I recall. |
| 15:40 | technomancy | stuartsierra: any gotchas? |
| 15:41 | stuartsierra | technomancy: Worked fine, as far as I remember. |
| 15:41 | stuartsierra | I still do the same thing when I'm distributing materials for training courses. Only downside is the difficulty of running Lein without fast/reliable Internet access, e.g. at a hotel. |
| 15:42 | bbloom | dnolen_: what causes entries to be added to deps.js ? |
| 15:42 | dnolen_ | bbloom: it needs to be constructed beforehand |
| 15:43 | dnolen_ | bbloom: google closure and third party jars ship with it |
| 15:43 | gfredericks | stuartsierra: you mean just the first time? |
| 15:44 | stuartsierra | gfredericks: Even after. I've had problems even if I specify a :local-repo and pre-cache everything. |
| 15:44 | gfredericks | hmmm |
| 15:45 | stuartsierra | Especially with artifacts that aren't in a public repo, like Datomic Pro. |
| 15:45 | gfredericks | are there tests in leiningen that actually launch another jvm? |
| 15:45 | stuartsierra | Even if they're cached, Leiningen tries to download them again. |
| 15:46 | technomancy | gfredericks: tons |
| 15:47 | gfredericks | I must find myself one of these tests and paste its code |
| 15:47 | gfredericks | wait I meant launch another leiningen jvm |
| 15:47 | gfredericks | i.e., run the script |
| 15:47 | gfredericks | I'm worried that the only way to test this is by actually adding things to the classpath |
| 15:47 | gfredericks | which is rather side-effecty= |
| 15:49 | technomancy | gfredericks: no tests for bin/lein iirc unfortunately |
| 15:50 | gfredericks | technomancy: is this testable otherwise? the bug is in load-plugins, which...probably loads plugins. |
| 15:50 | gfredericks | I guess I can with-redefs something somewhere probably |
| 15:52 | sdegutis | My website is 54 MB big :) |
| 15:52 | sdegutis | Perhaps this is not ridiculous. Although it does at first glance appear so. |
| 15:52 | bbloom | dnolen_: this is the issue: https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/blob/master/src/clj/cljs/closure.clj#L711 |
| 15:52 | bbloom | dnolen_: that's getting a relative path between an input file and an output file |
| 15:53 | mercwithamouth | what do you all think of fireplace compared to cider? |
| 15:54 | angusiguess | I'm using fireplace + dispatch and am diggin' it. |
| 15:54 | bbloom | dnolen_: in my case, that's adding a whole bunch of extra ../../ to the path |
| 15:54 | angusiguess | Still not using it the same way I'd use a repl but it works pretty well. |
| 15:58 | mercwithamouth | angusiguess: hmm i may give it a look see. i'm fairly comfortable with emacs/cider as well but i've used vim for years. i am at a point where i'm very productive in emacs though |
| 15:59 | mordocai | Hey, is there an easy way to get the source of an anonymous function for debugging/output purposes? Like, (def x [#(+ %1 %2)]) then (print-source (first x)) and get "(fn [x y] (+ %1 %2))" essentially? I know the repl function source exists, but it only seems to work on named functions that originate from a .clj. |
| 15:59 | amalloy | mordocai: no |
| 16:00 | amalloy | functions don't have source code attached |
| 16:00 | mordocai | amalloy: That's what I thought, but wanted to double check. Thanks! |
| 16:03 | bbloom | dnolen_: i just monkey-patched cljs using with-redefs to rewrite the path to be correct & unblock me. if you're up for it, i'll help come by and help you fix this up on friday. thanks for the help |
| 16:10 | bacon1989 | hello guys, I really want to get clojure working within an existing android project. The plan is to query a server for updates, and download scripts. These scripts would then be loaded into the clojure runtime. I started by building a dalvik version of the clojure runtime from here https://github.com/clojure-android/clojure, and tried a few methods to try and load a file from external storage, which can be seen here: |
| 16:10 | bacon1989 | http://pastebin.com/xLVV0p7v |
| 16:11 | bacon1989 | the file 'main.clj' includes nothing else but this: (defn foo [a] (str "Hello " a "!")) |
| 16:11 | bacon1989 | I feel like i've exhausted my efforts, and i'm doing something clearly wrong |
| 16:13 | bacon1989 | The error i'm getting is when I call load-string on the slurped file, it gives me a java.lang.NullPointerException, compiling:(null:1:1) |
| 16:15 | sveri | hi, Lets say I want to construct a map and the map should contain a certain key / value pair only if the value is not nil, what is the idiomatic way to do this? this is what comes to my mind: http://pastebin.com/n3gEvLE9 |
| 16:16 | amalloy | sveri: (merge m (when v {k v})) |
| 16:16 | dnolen_ | bbloom: sure! |
| 16:19 | johnwalker | when does send-off occur within a swap! ? |
| 16:19 | johnwalker | is it after swap! finishes like in dosync? |
| 16:19 | sveri | amalloy: thats shorter and looks nice, thank you |
| 16:19 | stuartsierra | johnwalker: Whenever you call it. Atoms don't coordinate with Agents like Refs do. |
| 16:20 | johnwalker | darn |
| 16:20 | stuartsierra | sveri: (if v (assoc m k v) m) |
| 16:20 | gfredericks | johnwalker: and the swap function can be retried too, so it really shouldn't have any side effects, including send-off |
| 16:21 | johnwalker | gfredericks: yeah, that was exactly my concern |
| 16:21 | johnwalker | well, found a use for refs. thanks gfredericks, stuartsierra |
| 16:22 | gfredericks | johnwalker: do you know about watcher fns? |
| 16:23 | johnwalker | i do. they're executed after a successful swap, right? |
| 16:24 | johnwalker | it would make sense here, but it feels weird using them |
| 16:24 | johnwalker | you see old state and new state, but not the difference between them |
| 16:25 | johnwalker | i realize you can encode part of the difference within the state, but it doesn't feel right |
| 16:26 | rurumate | how to refer to the ns declared above my code? *ns* seems to refer to clojure.core at runtime |
| 16:26 | fifosine | I'm having trouble following the Om tutorial that swannodette wrote. Does anyone know of any other good Om tuts out there? |
| 16:27 | gfredericks | technomancy: any estimates when 2.4.1 appeareth? |
| 16:30 | johnwalker | fifosine: this doesn't have a tutorial, but if you raise an issue here then emallson will probably point you to the slides |
| 16:30 | johnwalker | https://github.com/emallson/comment-example |
| 16:31 | angusiguess | mercwithamouth: let me know how it goes! |
| 16:37 | johnwalker | oh i know |
| 16:37 | johnwalker | ahh shit nevermind, that's a stupid idea |
| 16:43 | Shayanjm | Does anyone else here using light table IDE? |
| 16:58 | technomancy | gfredericks: 1-3 days I think |
| 16:59 | tvanhens | how do you include resources in an uberjar? |
| 16:59 | johnwalker | how can you find out the arguments passed to an agent that caused it to fail? |
| 17:00 | gfredericks | technomancy: roger, thanks |
| 17:08 | devn | technomancy: https://github.com/ato/clojars-web/pull/214 |
| 17:08 | devn | PR out! :) |
| 17:09 | tvanhens | Do resource relative paths change in an uberjar? |
| 17:10 | akhudek | devn: that looks nice |
| 17:11 | Bronsa | (inc devn) |
| 17:11 | lazybot | ⇒ 18 |
| 17:12 | kzar | Is there a simple way to tell if a file is binary / ascii in Clojure? |
| 17:13 | devn | akhudek: thanks dude. we think so too. the comps are a bit better, so there are more tweaks coming, but this is a good start. |
| 17:15 | dbasch | kzar: the naive way would be to see if all the bytes are 127 or less, but there are java tools to guess file types without looking at all the content |
| 17:16 | kzar | dbasch: Oh I just tried slurping a binary file and it worked OK |
| 17:17 | kzar | :) Clojure is nice |
| 17:19 | hiredman | uh |
| 17:21 | gfredericks | for binary files you probably want to deal with bytes (like a byte array) instead of characters (like a string); slurp only does the latter |
| 17:22 | kzar | For my purposes it's fine, I'm just looking for ascii files starting with a specific string to process in a special way |
| 17:22 | kzar | I thought I'd have to rule out binary files myself but as they're passed as a string .startsWith works fine |
| 17:25 | tvanhens | does slurp use the classpath when resolving file locations? |
| 17:30 | cbp | tvanhens: no |
| 17:30 | tvanhens | Whats the best way of reliably refering to a file so it doesn't change in or out of an uberjar |
| 17:30 | tvanhens | I seem to be able to only get it to work one way or another |
| 17:31 | kzar | tvanhens: I think clojure.java.io/resource |
| 17:31 | hiredman | clojure.java.io/resource |
| 17:31 | cbp | put it inside resources and use io/resource |
| 17:32 | tvanhens | gotcha its inside resources but I wasn't using io/resource lemme give that a go |
| 17:32 | tvanhens | thank you |
| 17:37 | kzar | Trying to get a list of all the files in a directory and sub-directories thereof. I'm getting an error about there not being a matching File ctor. (file-seq (java.io.File. (clojure.java.io/resource "public/"))) |
| 17:39 | johnwalker | try |
| 17:39 | johnwalker | (clojure.java.io/file "public") |
| 17:39 | hiredman | kzar: resource does not return something you are allowed to make a file out of |
| 17:39 | johnwalker | (-> "public/" clojure.java.io/file file-seq) |
| 17:40 | hiredman | resource reads things via a classloader, which basically presents a simple key/value read only api |
| 17:40 | hiredman | not like files at all, no way to do any kind of listing |
| 17:40 | johnwalker | and public should be in the same directory as your src directory |
| 17:40 | johnwalker | i'm pretty sure file-seq is just (seq (.listFiles file)) |
| 17:41 | johnwalker | but i haven't looked at the source |
| 17:41 | hiredman | no |
| 17:41 | hiredman | ,(doc file-seq) |
| 17:41 | clojurebot | "([dir]); A tree seq on java.io.Files" |
| 17:41 | hiredman | it is recursive |
| 17:41 | johnwalker | ahh gotcha |
| 17:42 | kzar | So public contains my html etc for my website, I'm porting my site from static site generator jekyll. I've put public in resources/public. Don't mind not using clojure.java.io/resource but was trying to do things in an idiomatic way I guess |
| 17:42 | johnwalker | try "resources/public/" as your directory, then |
| 17:42 | hiredman | kzar: something that is a resource is read via a classloader, that means that content could be basically anywhere, not just files on disk |
| 17:43 | kzar | In my shoes would you put that stuff in resources/public? |
| 17:43 | hiredman | kzar: definitely |
| 17:44 | kzar | phew ok |
| 17:44 | hiredman | kzar: but I know how resources work, and would not try to make one a file, or listing it like a directory |
| 17:45 | kzar | Well does it really matter if I just do as johnwalker suggested? I don't think my site will ever be an uberjar |
| 17:45 | hiredman | resouces are a thing, you give it a name, you get inputstream over the bytes from that name or nil |
| 17:45 | hiredman | I dunno, why are you listing the contents of public anyway? |
| 17:46 | johnwalker | i'm not sure i would put the stuff in resources/public |
| 17:46 | kzar | hiredman: So with Jekyll any file that starts with "---\n" some YAML and then "\n---\n" is formatted based on the YAML |
| 17:46 | kzar | so that YAML sets the template being used, the file format like markdown etc |
| 17:47 | kzar | if there isn't that YAML "front matter" at the start the file is copied straight over into the output directory |
| 17:47 | kzar | if there is the file is processed and the output written to the output directory |
| 17:47 | kzar | So I am attempting to map over all the files, if .startsWith "---" then process, otherwise copy etc |
| 17:48 | hiredman | I think you are confusing things |
| 17:48 | johnwalker | wouldn't it make more sense to pass this directory as an argument to your program? |
| 17:48 | hiredman | you have a program to do static site generation, and some data that it operates on, but those are distinct things |
| 17:49 | hiredman | so when you run the program, you give it arguments like --in somedir and --out someotherdir |
| 17:50 | hiredman | so that data is definitely not part of the program and even if you did uberjar the program, it doesn't go in the jar |
| 17:50 | bbloom | heh, i suspected this *might* be the case, but it seems like cljs' immutable maps are dramatically faster than objects for use as dictionaries for even a few dozen keys |
| 17:51 | kzar | so long story short you'd put public outside of the resources directory |
| 17:51 | kzar | ? |
| 17:51 | kzar | (What you said made sense) |
| 17:51 | hiredman | sure |
| 17:52 | wolfcore | kzar: wouldn't it be easier to use grep + pipes to move the non-YAML files and then work on the rest? |
| 17:53 | kzar | hiredman: Would you put your config files in the resources directory? (setting stuff like api keys) |
| 18:06 | amalloy | kzar: i don't think you can safely slurp a binary file. if it contains byte sequences that are not legal utf-8, i think you get an exception |
| 18:06 | kzar | crap OK |
| 18:08 | wolfcore | kzar: not sure if I understand what you are trying to do, but |
| 18:08 | wolfcore | kzar: find . -type f -exec awk 'FNR==1 && /^---$/ {print FILENAME}; FNR>1 {nextfile}' {} + | xargs -I{} mv {} dest |
| 18:09 | wolfcore | kzar: that would move all files that have the first line with "---\n" to dest/ |
| 18:09 | amalloy | well, maybe not? i expected ##(String. (byte-array (map unchecked-byte [0xc3 0x28])) "UTF-8") to break, but it doesn't look like it just puts in a replacement character |
| 18:09 | lazybot | ⇒ "�(" |
| 18:11 | johnwalker | yeah thats right |
| 18:11 | johnwalker | expect to be confused as hell when you call slurp on a file with a bom |
| 18:18 | deathknight | no tests for bin/laden |
| 18:24 | johnwalker | if you do (locking <atom here> ) |
| 18:24 | johnwalker | do swap!s and reset!s have to wait? |
| 18:24 | johnwalker | on that atom's lock to finish? |
| 18:28 | xaloysius | hi |
| 18:28 | johnwalker | do swap!s and reset!s outside locking have to wait? * |
| 18:28 | bbloom | johnwalker: don't lock an atom |
| 18:29 | bbloom | johnwalker: in fact, you should never use locking at all, if you can help it |
| 18:29 | amalloy | johnwalker: you seem to be doing a lot of complicated concurrency stuff. perhaps if you posted a more general question ("how do i do X, it seems like using a future and atom and agent can't be right"), you could get an answer that doesn't need this crazy stuff |
| 18:29 | bbloom | johnwalker: and by "if you can help it" i mean "you almost certainly really do not need to use locking ever" |
| 18:30 | xaloysius | first time on IRC not sure this is where a question like this is appropriate but basically I am putting together a REST API that will be doing basic CRUD operations. i want to use a nested JSON format so that OOP clients can easily use de/serialization with my API. Is there a good library to transform flat relational data (a map) into nested json if I provide it with mappings? |
| 18:30 | johnwalker | darn, seemed like an easy solution |
| 18:30 | johnwalker | this problem isn't too hard, but i'm still having trouble with it |
| 18:31 | justin_smith | johnwalker: using atoms correctly as intended is easier than using locking correctly |
| 18:31 | cbp | johnwalker: what are you trying to do? |
| 18:31 | johnwalker | i'm trying to track the state of concurrent file uploads |
| 18:32 | johnwalker | so the way i've modeled this problem is that at any point you have a set of files that are being sent to some server |
| 18:32 | johnwalker | so what i wanted to do was store a hashmap from files to futures within an atom |
| 18:33 | justin_smith | so you use swap! to insert a new entry when an upload starts, and check the future to see if the upload is done? |
| 18:33 | johnwalker | checking whether a file has finished uploading or is still in the works would just be (realized? (@file-map file)) |
| 18:33 | johnwalker | thats right |
| 18:33 | justin_smith | right |
| 18:34 | justin_smith | if that's all you need, that's easy with an atom |
| 18:34 | dbasch | xaloysius: check out cheshire |
| 18:34 | johnwalker | well, the problem is - how do you handle timeouts? |
| 18:34 | justin_smith | johnwalker: well, if you do a retry, cancel the old future, and swap! in a new one |
| 18:35 | justin_smith | johnwalker: for a simple cancel, cancel the future, and (swap! files dissoc file) |
| 18:35 | justin_smith | if the future is where the timeout happens, even easier, no need to do the canceling logic elsewhere |
| 18:36 | amalloy | justin_smith: "cancel the future and swap in a new one" is not easy to do thread safely, by the way |
| 18:36 | justin_smith | oh, ok |
| 18:37 | justin_smith | amalloy: is it not a question of waiting for future-cancel to return? where is the trick? |
| 18:37 | amalloy | i mean, it's not impossible, and with a ref instead it's fairly easy (your dosync dissocs the future, then returns it); but with an atom, how do you cancel the future and remove it, all in one operation, given that it may be retried? |
| 18:38 | johnwalker | with an atom, i think it's still possible so long as you do future-cancel outside of the swap |
| 18:38 | amalloy | you don't want to cancel the same future many times, or cancel a future that some other thread just put in there, if they beat you to the punch of retrying |
| 18:38 | johnwalker | but it's fragile |
| 18:38 | johnwalker | possible for me* |
| 18:39 | johnwalker | mileage may vary ._. |
| 18:39 | xaloysius | dbasch: would i use the factory functionality in cheshire? |
| 18:39 | johnwalker | so this is actually a good place to use refs? |
| 18:40 | johnwalker | i've stayed away since stuart halloway implied that you have a bad design if you're using them |
| 18:40 | amalloy | most of the time that i actually use refs, it's for this reason: i'd like to swap! an atom, but return something other than its new value |
| 18:41 | amalloy | you can fake that up with an atom, but refs are more convenient for it. i'm not actually using any of the nice STM features |
| 18:41 | dbasch | xaloysius: you’d probably use generate-string, do you have an example of what your nested map looks like? |
| 18:42 | johnwalker | calls inside dosync need to be pure too |
| 18:42 | johnwalker | can future-cancel really fit somewhere here? |
| 18:43 | amalloy | johnwalker: the layout i was suggesting was (future-cancel (dosync (let [f (get @m k)] (alter m dissoc k) f))) |
| 18:43 | dbasch | amalloy: do you know anyone who’s actually using STM for all its power and glory? I’m curious because I don’t know any projects that do |
| 18:44 | amalloy | i've never heard of a compelling use |
| 18:44 | johnwalker | wow, that's pretty slick |
| 18:45 | dbasch | it would be useful in scenarios like financial order settlement in high volume exchanges, but I doubt anyone is doing that in Clojure |
| 18:45 | johnwalker | i don't see any problems |
| 18:45 | johnwalker | thanks amalloy, justin_smith |
| 18:45 | justin_smith | and thanks amalloy |
| 18:45 | justin_smith | (inc amalloy) |
| 18:45 | lazybot | ⇒ 121 |
| 18:46 | johnwalker | (inc amalloy) |
| 18:46 | lazybot | ⇒ 122 |
| 18:46 | johnwalker | (inc justin_smith) |
| 18:46 | lazybot | ⇒ 46 |
| 18:46 | dbasch | if I were to build a bitcoin exchange in Clojure, I’d consider using STM |
| 18:46 | amalloy | it's raining karma! |
| 18:46 | amalloy | dbasch: i dunno, anything large-scale enough to benefit from STM can usually benefit more from a transactional database anyway |
| 18:47 | justin_smith | dbasch: use something less reliable, like php, then you can steal btc and blame it on hackers or gremlins |
| 18:47 | xaloysius | dbasch: {"subscription_canceled":0,"primary_email":"test1@test.com","payment_cycle_end":1431550550,"payment_cycle_start":1399668950,"id":1111,"country":{"name":"United States","id":1,"code":"US","currency":1},"card":{"exp_year":2222,"exp_month":12,"type":"Visa","last_four":"1111"},"plan":{"name":"xxxxx","renewable":0,"price":0.00,"id":1}} |
| 18:47 | amalloy | gremlins are well known hackers |
| 18:47 | johnwalker | lol |
| 18:47 | dbasch | amalloy: yes, but in the case of bitcoin sometimes you don’t need a db because the blockchain is the ultimate db |
| 18:47 | dbasch | that’s for external transactions |
| 18:48 | dbasch | but in that case you probably wouldn’t need stm either |
| 18:48 | dbasch | perhaps in something close to HFT for bitcoin? |
| 18:48 | xaloysius | dbasch: thats a basic case - it could get arbitratily deep |
| 18:50 | johnwalker | well, this makes me sad |
| 18:51 | johnwalker | refs make it easy to cancel these things, but you can't start them haha |
| 18:52 | johnwalker | you would have to start your future before the dosync, but you don't know for sure if you really need to trigger an upload beforehand |
| 18:52 | xaloysius | dbasch: thats just a mock - i may rearrange the levels/data types later. preferably a solution would be easily changeable. i hacked together a solution but it reminded me too much of a janky ORM so i ditched it and am looking for something cleaner |
| 18:52 | johnwalker | because the server might already have the file ._. |
| 18:52 | dbasch | xaloysius: use parse-string on that (properly escaped as a string) and you’ll get a nice map |
| 18:53 | xaloysius | dbasch: im fine with converting to-from clojure data and json. what i'm having issues with is the impendance mismatch which is usually solved by an ORM |
| 18:53 | johnwalker | this hurts my brain. |
| 18:53 | johnwalker | can i use locking with refs? haha |
| 18:54 | xaloysius | it would be nice if there was a way to bolt an ORM-like solution that consumed edn or something onto the side of this thing. |
| 18:54 | dbasch | xaloysius: but why do you care about an ORM? are you going to interact with another system that needs to parse the data into objects of a class? |
| 18:54 | xaloysius | yeah legacy java applications |
| 18:54 | xaloysius | otherwise id go straight edn |
| 18:54 | dbasch | xaloysius: in clojure we usually don’t bother much with ORM |
| 18:55 | justin_smith | dbasch: xaloysius: well you can use java orm from clojure |
| 18:55 | cbp | that sounds mad fun |
| 18:55 | xaloysius | justin_smith: was trying to avoid the overhead of a full ORM if possible |
| 18:55 | justin_smith | xaloysius: yeah, edn can be simple if you don't need java compate (as described above) |
| 18:56 | justin_smith | and from a java compate perspective, you could always implement some magic java interface for grabbing the data using clojure classes and make java happy that way |
| 18:56 | justin_smith | that may be easier than using the java built stuff |
| 18:57 | johnwalker | bbloom: is locking OK for refs? |
| 18:57 | johnwalker | i just need to ensure that the ref in question's value hasn't changed while i do something messy |
| 18:58 | dbasch | justin_smith: yeah, that seems like the best compromise |
| 18:58 | johnwalker | (locking <ref> (something_messy) (dosync <something-pure-involving-ref>)) |
| 18:58 | justin_smith | johnwalker: what if you had a dedicated thread for dispatching the upload jobs, so that part of the job could be strictly single threaded |
| 18:58 | xaloysius | justin_smith: yeah thats what I was thinking. it would be nice if I could just have a simple way to go from relational -> object-ish structure but i guess thats why they say the impedance mismatch is a PITA |
| 18:59 | justin_smith | if you are only starting tasks from that one thread, you don't need a lock |
| 18:59 | justin_smith | and starting the tasks should not be a bottleneck on throughput at all, given the filesystem is involved here |
| 18:59 | justin_smith | (plus network, of course) |
| 18:59 | johnwalker | justin_smith: i was thinking about something like (async/thread (<!! ) (future ..)) |
| 19:00 | justin_smith | this is the kind of thing core.async is for |
| 19:00 | justin_smith | jynx |
| 19:00 | johnwalker | but this doesn't really solve the problem because the issue is starting tasks and cancelling them |
| 19:00 | justin_smith | or just a SynchronizedQueue |
| 19:00 | xaloysius | perhaps clojure is the wrong tool to use here... thanks anyway |
| 19:00 | justin_smith | xaloysius: well, caribou has a map relational modeler for a subset of edn |
| 19:01 | johnwalker | well, i know i'll shoot my eye out if i do blocking io with core async |
| 19:01 | justin_smith | xaloysius: it won't make java happy though |
| 19:01 | johnwalker | *with the go blocks of core async |
| 19:01 | justin_smith | johnwalker: you would dispatch jobs from that one thread |
| 19:01 | justin_smith | not do any of the work in it |
| 19:02 | justin_smith | the idea is if that thread is the only one starting / stopping, and has an ordered queue of stop / start events, then you have no threading issues around those aspects |
| 19:03 | johnwalker | i think you're right |
| 19:03 | johnwalker | something like (>!! manager "hi, shut down/start thread for file x if it exists) |
| 19:03 | justin_smith | right |
| 19:04 | justin_smith | and make sure no actual work is done there, just dispatch |
| 19:04 | justin_smith | then it can't bottleneck, can't deadlock, and can't go out of sync |
| 19:05 | johnwalker | yep, this is the way to go |
| 19:05 | johnwalker | am i allowed to inc you again? |
| 19:05 | johnwalker | lol |
| 19:05 | amalloy | ~guards |
| 19:05 | clojurebot | SEIZE HIM! |
| 19:06 | johnwalker | speaking of guards, what happened to cedric greevey |
| 19:06 | justin_smith | johnwalker: glad I could help, I've just recently read Java Concurrency in Practice so all this stuff is fresh on my mind |
| 19:06 | johnwalker | i've asked this so many times. did he just get bored and start trolling some other group? |
| 19:07 | johnwalker | i'm going to order my copy |
| 19:08 | johnwalker | is that goetz's book? |
| 19:08 | johnwalker | oh it is |
| 19:09 | justin_smith | yeah, it is really good |
| 19:14 | tvanhens | whats the difference between the standalone and the snapshot jar created by lein uberjar? |
| 19:15 | technomancy | tvanhens: snapshot is part of the version |
| 19:15 | technomancy | standalone just means uberjar |
| 19:16 | tvanhens | what do you mean by part of the version. What is the function of the snapshot jar? |
| 19:17 | technomancy | it's a jar of the snapshot version |
| 19:18 | aperiodic | tvanhens: the snapshot jar just has your project's code and resources. it needs to be created first before the uberjar can be created. the standalone one is the uberjar with all the dependencies |
| 19:18 | tvanhens | cool that makes sense. Thanks :) |
| 19:33 | johnwalker | for what it's worth, i wound up using core async and refs |
| 19:33 | johnwalker | lol |
| 19:34 | justin_smith | cool |
| 19:51 | andyf_ | Bronsa: ping? |
| 19:52 | Bronsa | andyf_: hi |
| 19:53 | andyf_ | I continue with my insolent nature of asking questions after being confused & wrong too often ... :-) |
| 19:54 | andyf_ | About your suggested Eastwood simplification by using :raw-forms, is there an easy way to have the fully qualified vars in the pre-macro expanded version of the expr? |
| 19:54 | Bronsa | heh, no worries, ask away |
| 19:54 | Bronsa | uh |
| 19:55 | andyf_ | I'd like to know not only that it was defmulti, say, but that it was clojure.core/defmulti |
| 19:55 | Bronsa | right |
| 19:57 | Bronsa | andyf_: uhm I guess I could do it on the tools.analyzer side but that doesn't feel right to me |
| 19:58 | Bronsa | if you give me a minute I'll give you a way to do it in analyze-ns |
| 19:59 | andyf_ | If I get back the full env from the analyzer, and I am only wanting to fully qualify the first symbol, not some nested one, would that be straightforward to resolve in the env? |
| 19:59 | catern | Oh god no the latest clojure-mode update is so uncolorful |
| 19:59 | Bronsa | andyf_: yeah that's what I'm thinking of |
| 19:59 | catern | Please help me #clojure |
| 20:00 | catern | It's so dull |
| 20:00 | andyf_ | catern: Can't roll back? Find the color settings & tweak them to your liking? |
| 20:03 | catern | I don't want to roll back but I think I must |
| 20:03 | amalloy | i don't like updating emacs packages. if it was good enough for 2010 it's good enough for me |
| 20:04 | Bronsa | andyf_: http://sprunge.us/KRYC?clj something like that should work I think |
| 20:06 | andyf_ | Grazie. Will try that out |
| 20:06 | Bronsa | uhm wait you really don't need to back up the env |
| 20:07 | Bronsa | andyf_: unfortunately since clojure namespaces are global mutable state, if you have (ns foo) (defmacro defmacro ..) that would resolve the defmacro as foo/defmacro rather than c.c/defmacro |
| 20:08 | Bronsa | andyf_: but that's some perverse and horrible code anyway so I don't think we should really care |
| 20:09 | Bronsa | andyf_: http://sprunge.us/hUfZ this is a bit better |
| 20:09 | andyf_ | But saving a copy of the env just before each (analyze form) is the way that would even handle the perverse case? |
| 20:10 | Bronsa | that's why I put it there in the first snippet |
| 20:10 | Bronsa | but then I remembered about ana.jvm/update-ns-map! |
| 20:10 | Bronsa | oh well wait nevermind. |
| 20:11 | Bronsa | andyf_: it's too late and I'm thinking rubbish. the first example is ok and should work fine |
| 20:12 | andyf_ | I'll give it a go, and try it out on the perverse example to see what happens. Thx |
| 20:14 | Bronsa | andyf_: ok, but if it doesn't work for that, I wouldn't spend time on trying to fix it. even trying to AOT that code with che clojure compiler fails so why should we bother |
| 20:14 | Bronsa | andyf_: not the lack of (:refer-clojure :exclude [defmacro]) on the ns decl |
| 20:14 | Bronsa | note* |
| 20:15 | andyf_ | Ok |
| 20:19 | andyf_ | The completely unexpected Clojure slogan: We can mutate _anything_. |
| 20:19 | andyf_ | (But usually have the good taste and sensibility not to.) |
| 21:06 | devn | xeqi: hola sir |
| 21:15 | xeqi | devn: hola |
| 21:19 | devn | xeqi: how goes? |
| 21:20 | devn | xeqi: i dropped a reply on that PR. we can discuss on a google hangout or something if you'd like. my goal is to get this first PR pushed through so we can make future PRs related to this effort a bit lighter and more modular. |
| 21:21 | devn | xeqi: but im a reasonable chap, so let's chat if that sounds unreasonable. :) |
| 21:26 | xeqi | devn: I get that. Personally I'm big on having master be in a deployable state, in case of emergency like XSS vuln found. |
| 21:27 | xeqi | I'd love to have this on a branch that you could PR to and then just do a ff merge onto master |
| 21:27 | devn | xeqi: Agree, but IMO the pages in question are basically what they are in prod right now |
| 21:27 | devn | Dashboard is basically the same. a couple of ul's for projects and groups |
| 21:27 | devn | y'know? |
| 21:28 | xeqi | true |
| 21:28 | xeqi | I'd push for "add new project" to be visually different so it doesn't look like its in the list of projects, but I don't know thats worth continuing to block over |
| 21:28 | xeqi | esp since bendyworks sounds committed |
| 21:29 | devn | xeqi: that's an easy fix. I can hit that right now. |
| 21:30 | xeqi | then I'm happy to +1 with the future changes planned |
| 21:30 | xeqi | devn: what made you guys decide to redesign clojars? |
| 21:31 | xeqi | *you people |
| 21:31 | devn | xeqi: it's been something i've wanted to do for a long time but never got around to it. we also have hired design folks at bendyworks, but we haven't had a lot of recent opportunities to work /together/ on something |
| 21:31 | devn | we also have a bunch of people hot on clojure, are pretty community-focused as a company, etc. |
| 21:36 | xeqi | devn: I've had a list of UI items I think would provide a better user experience for awhile. Is there someplace I should braindump that at? |
| 21:37 | devn | xeqi: yeah dude, we should start a google doc or maybe an issue for it that we can create issues off of? your call. |
| 21:38 | xeqi | like hiding SSH key on signup/profile behind some advanced section. (ssh keys aren't required unless you ssh deploy, which should rarely happen for new people since `lein deploy clojars` works) |
| 21:38 | devn | ah yeah i think i saw an issue related to that |
| 21:38 | devn | "re-authenticate for key changes" or something along those lines |
| 21:38 | devn | seems like that's ripe for it's own section |
| 21:38 | devn | where we could protect it with a re-auth |
| 21:40 | xeqi | k, I'll think about making a google doc for now. None of them need to be gospel or anything so not worried about a formal issue |
| 21:40 | xeqi | devn: thanks for doing this |
| 21:41 | xeqi | its been #3 on my list of things to fix about clojars if I ever get a large amount of time for it |
| 21:41 | xeqi | (the UI refresh) |
| 21:41 | devn | xeqi: im happy to just have a more polished clojars. i think it makes people feel like it's a bit more credible, and AFAIK practically everyone in the damn community uses it, so we should make it look nice |
| 21:43 | devn | xeqi: there's a longer-term thing here which i think we might be able to tackle /at some point/, but right now i sort of need to play the middle between a designer and the style. enlive for testing and hiccup for templating make this kind of a pain for a lot of designers to work on it |
| 21:43 | mdedetrich | im just getting started with light table, does anyone know what the key is for selecting an expression |
| 21:44 | devn | xeqi: in some ways i think xpath + plain html templates might be a better way to go in order to encourage more people to hack |
| 21:45 | devn | in the meantime im happy to play the middle, but in the long term it might get more people involved if they didn't need to learn about enlive selector state machines to fix a broken test :) |
| 21:46 | xeqi | devn: have an example project w/ xpath + html? |
| 21:47 | devn | xeqi: somewhere around here. i mean, enlive could do straight HTML as well. i think for testing the enlive stuff can stop some people pretty cold in their tracks, and by people i mean designers |
| 21:47 | devn | laser does it, etc. |
| 21:47 | devn | so the main thing is i guess xpath or css for the integration test side of things |
| 21:48 | xeqi | devn: ah, yeah |
| 21:48 | devn | clj-taxi (is that the right project?) does what i think more people would be familiar with on the integration side |
| 21:48 | xeqi | I think there was some discussion on a kerodon issue about having other ways to select things, but requires some redesign work |
| 21:48 | devn | makes it a bit easier to step through finding an element, etc. |
| 21:49 | xeqi | clj-webdriver's taxi api |
| 21:49 | devn | because i even had some issues setting up my REPL to test certain things |
| 21:49 | devn | mainly due to fixtures |
| 21:50 | devn | i think the setup docs have gotten worlds better. i remember not being able to figure out how to run the project years ago |
| 21:50 | devn | but there are a couple of pieces missing which i haven't completely figured out |
| 21:50 | devn | like, in the repl, the proper way to be able to run scp.clj tests while in the REPL |
| 21:50 | xeqi | heh, I think it got better, and then worse again when I did the search/download counts |
| 21:51 | devn | ah, i didn't know if that was you! here's a big question that i'd love your input on... |
| 21:51 | devn | xeqi: let's just say, pie in the sky, we wanted to make clojuresphere + clojars |
| 21:52 | devn | are the query times right now prohibitive for some things in the existing DB? |
| 21:53 | xeqi | I will admit to not tracking performance, everything seems fast enough |
| 21:53 | devn | im imagining github api integration to try and find the "top 10 projects hosted on github this week" |
| 21:54 | devn | so you could query for most watched, intersected with the most watchers, or something |
| 21:54 | devn | err most downloads* |
| 21:54 | stasiomod | that = cool idea |
| 21:54 | xeqi | (#1 of the things to fix was finding a revenue stream to be able to handle a dev+ops person for monitoring, any crashes, time to work on things) |
| 21:55 | xeqi | etc |
| 21:55 | devn | oh, well shit... i think we can figure out #1. |
| 21:56 | xeqi | so back to you're pie in the sky project... |
| 21:56 | xeqi | *your |
| 21:56 | devn | haha |
| 21:57 | devn | writing checks my ass can't cash |
| 21:57 | devn | but yes, let's continue! |
| 21:57 | xeqi | I don't see anything there that would be problematic query wise |
| 21:58 | xeqi | as far as time |
| 21:58 | devn | i imagine clojuresphere as having most of what clojars.org should have. "who uses this dep? of those users, sort them by github relevance, etc" |
| 21:58 | devn | it introduces a metric ton of github API info |
| 21:58 | devn | but with some caching, seems pretty doable |
| 21:58 | xeqi | we actually want to remove the underlieing sqlite db and replace it with something else |
| 21:59 | devn | datomic :X |
| 21:59 | devn | sorry, i just can't help myself |
| 21:59 | xeqi | bad license |
| 21:59 | xeqi | thought it actually would be awesome |
| 21:59 | devn | what does the open source side of the datomic license look like? |
| 21:59 | devn | i thought that was free and clear |
| 22:00 | devn | but probably not: "MIT or BSD or GPL if you're an open source project" |
| 22:00 | xeqi | devn: you mean datomic-free that isn't open source? |
| 22:00 | devn | :X |
| 22:01 | xeqi | and I don't recall the other restrictions. only memory/h2 storage? limited to 3 connections? I think |
| 22:01 | devn | well, we had to try. let the record show we want to use datomic but won't due to licensing restrictions |
| 22:01 | devn | postgres. it works. |
| 22:01 | xeqi | that would be my vote |
| 22:01 | devn | what is doing search right now? |
| 22:02 | devn | i think i saw clucy in there as a dep? |
| 22:02 | xeqi | lucene |
| 22:02 | xeqi | yep |
| 22:02 | _ato | lucene |
| 22:02 | devn | what do y'all think of elasticsearch? |
| 22:02 | _ato | overkill :) |
| 22:02 | devn | fair enough |
| 22:02 | xeqi | I have heard lots of good things about it, but know nothing |
| 22:02 | _ato | $ du -sh index |
| 22:02 | _ato | 6.5M index |
| 22:03 | devn | i used elastisch on getclojure.org |
| 22:03 | devn | with a nice custom query parser/tokenizer/etc. |
| 22:03 | devn | if we ever want to do advanced search it seems like it might not be a terrible idea |
| 22:03 | devn | elastisch from the clojurewerkz folks is really nice. just sayin' |
| 22:04 | devn | btw: hi _ato! :) |
| 22:04 | xeqi | in general we've limited adding new features to the clojars api (such as the ones in clojuresphere). I'm neither for or against bringing in more, but it would be low on my list of things to work on |
| 22:04 | xeqi | *clojars api -> clojars ui |
| 22:04 | xeqi | a real api would be nice though |
| 22:05 | _ato | hi :) |
| 22:05 | devn | xeqi: oh man, please put that in whatever google doc you're brain dumping into |
| 22:05 | devn | details of what you'd expect much appreciated |
| 22:05 | xeqi | haha |
| 22:05 | devn | we have some API aficionados who i think might get a kick out of it |
| 22:06 | xeqi | mainly based off what I know people have requested and are screenscraping for |
| 22:06 | devn | yeah, one more damn good reason to have some google analytics |
| 22:06 | devn | it'd be nice to know when we're getting scraped so we can build an API for whatever they're after |
| 22:07 | devn | with the exception of whatever baidu is doing ;) |
| 22:08 | xeqi | $latest compojure |
| 22:08 | lazybot | [compojure "1.1.8"] -- https://clojars.org/compojure |
| 22:08 | xeqi | ^ screen scraping https://github.com/Raynes/lazybot/commit/ff013c4b177ec2e3fce43f8513b6503c8f1469f2 |
| 22:09 | arrdem | it'd be nice if clojars explicitly listed the "latest" png rather than being some backdoor unlisted feature I see some cool people using and others not :P |
| 22:09 | xeqi | arrdem: true, but I have no idea where to put that |
| 22:10 | xeqi | one of many UX enhancements to be done |
| 22:10 | arrdem | xeqi: even just having a link to it from the project page would be enough |
| 22:10 | devn | arrdem: what do you mean latest png? |
| 22:11 | _ato | https://clojars.org/compojure/latest-version.svg |
| 22:11 | arrdem | ^ that |
| 22:11 | devn | oh duh, i always forget about that |
| 22:11 | arrdem | right |
| 22:11 | arrdem | and it isn't mentioned anywhere on clojars.org that I've ever seen |
| 22:11 | arrdem | so I always forget to use it. |
| 22:11 | devn | we will take care of that :) |
| 22:11 | arrdem | <3 |
| 22:11 | arrdem | thanks guys, stay awesome |
| 22:11 | devn | thanks for mentioning that |
| 22:11 | devn | in fact, if you dont mind, make an issue and assign to me if one doesnt exist |
| 22:12 | devn | (on clojars-web) |
| 22:12 | devn | arrdem: ^ |
| 22:15 | devn | xeqi: comment + fix for the "Add New Project" thing pushed |
| 22:19 | _ato | Added latest-version.svg to the about page FAQ for now so there's at least some reference to it |
| 22:19 | devn | _ato: could it be added on the jar page? |
| 22:19 | devn | "Add this code to your GitHub markdown to XYZ..." |
| 22:20 | _ato | devn: sure |
| 22:21 | _ato | if you can think of a good way to fit it in, that'd be cool with me |
| 22:21 | devn | I'm going to pass it to our designers. Mic and Kelly will probably have some thoughts on how to go about adding it. |
| 22:22 | devn | but I'll own the issue and make sure we find a home for it |
| 22:23 | _ato | cool, thanks for you and the others hard work on this stuff :) |
| 22:23 | devn | _ato && xeqi: mic will get the typekit domain thing fixed within the next hour just FYI |
| 22:24 | devn | _ato: yeah dude, i think im probably at least as happy as you. i've wanted to get this done for maybe 2 years and the stars aligned |
| 22:24 | devn | *virtual high five* |
| 22:24 | _ato | :D |
| 22:25 | devn | _ato: now, you just owe me a clojure 1.6 version of your widefinder 2 solution |
| 22:25 | devn | i always kind of find myself wondering what that same code looks like in 1.6 |
| 22:25 | xeqi | haha |
| 22:25 | devn | :D |
| 22:25 | _ato | hah, oh man |
| 22:27 | devn | _ato: tall order, eh? |
| 22:27 | devn | how long did that take you originaly, anyway? that was in? 1.1? 1.2? |
| 22:28 | _ato | I'd completely forgotten about that |
| 22:28 | _ato | 1.0 I think |
| 22:28 | devn | i know you were casting to (int ...) all over the place |
| 22:28 | devn | and i think there was some unchecked math in there |
| 22:29 | _ato | yeah... can probably remove a whole bunch of the type hinting at the very least |
| 22:29 | devn | i know it's ancient, but i remember being like: "wow, this doesn't look very much like clojure!" |
| 22:29 | devn | but i suspect it's gotten better |
| 22:30 | devn | to the point where it might not look like a crazy aussie martian wrote it ;) |
| 22:30 | devn | defrecord, deftype weren't around then either |
| 22:30 | xeqi | devn: ! just saw the search page |
| 22:33 | xeqi | haha, it needs some help. just a plain list atm |
| 22:34 | devn | ahhh shite. |
| 22:34 | devn | yeah, not cool. the /projects page styles should probably be applied here as well |
| 22:35 | devn | i think i can fix this quick, but i need to figure out how to get this looking right locally |
| 22:36 | xeqi | devn: np, there are comments for grabing an index file and stats file now |
| 22:36 | devn | i was trying to use the results of `lein test` in dev |
| 22:36 | devn | but no dice |
| 22:37 | xeqi | happy to help since I messed this part of setup up and must not have documented it |
| 22:37 | devn | xeqi: so just to be clear, when you use the all.edn from clojars.org |
| 22:37 | devn | you're running using `lein ring server`? |
| 22:37 | devn | and using the test data from the README instructions? |
| 22:41 | xeqi | devn: stepped away for a moment, let me got ahead and pull a clean copy locally |
| 22:42 | devn | xeqi: i think im missing something in the directions, because i still cannot get search results |
| 22:42 | devn | im going to blow away my data/ dir |
| 22:43 | xeqi | devn: did you have the index from ato/clojars-web#197 ? |
| 22:43 | lazybot | search lein-garden with lein-garden -- https://github.com/ato/clojars-web/issues/197 is closed |
| 22:44 | xeqi | monopolizing #clojure for the past hour |
| 22:46 | devn | xeqi: we're technically on topic :) |
| 22:46 | devn | xeqi: where do i drop this index? |
| 22:47 | _ato | data/index/ |
| 22:48 | arrdem | little late to the party but an issue is now open. |
| 22:50 | devn | thanks arrdem |
| 22:50 | xeqi | devn: clone, db migrate, copy index, copy stats, lein ring server = search locally for me |
| 22:50 | devn | xeqi: perfect. i just caught up with you. |
| 22:51 | devn | xeqi: do you see those "/clojure-utils ..." items? |
| 22:51 | devn | where they seem to have no group? |
| 22:52 | devn | the href is to "clojure-utils", not sure what's up with that |
| 22:52 | xeqi | yeah |
| 22:53 | _ato | ah |
| 22:53 | _ato | that index is probably old |
| 22:53 | _ato | before stuff got fixed |
| 22:53 | xeqi | I think that was ato/clojars-web#132 |
| 22:53 | lazybot | parent poms aren't parsed for search results -- https://github.com/ato/clojars-web/issues/132 is closed |
| 22:54 | devn | gotcha |
| 22:54 | xeqi | _ato: haha, just realized you cherrypicked that from me. I thought you had fixed it |
| 22:56 | sneak_peek | anyone have any experience with any of the following ORM-like libraries? Carte, Oyako, Caribou-api |
| 22:56 | _ato | yeah, it was kind of weird, it sent me a notification like you had closed the issue when it was really the cherry-picked commit doing it :) |
| 22:56 | devn | sneak_peek: a little teenie bit |
| 22:56 | devn | sneak_peek: whatcha thinkin' about? |
| 22:57 | umpa | what do you use instead of counters in while loops ? |
| 22:57 | sneak_peek | devn: trying to overcome the relational-object impedance mismatch :/ |
| 22:58 | sneak_peek | devn: I need to take flat data and change it into a nested JSON structure. I use sqlingvo to build my sql queries just want something that will map my flat data to nested data |
| 22:59 | devn | umpa: im guessing you want `loop` + `recur` |
| 22:59 | sneak_peek | devn: could roll my own based on cristophe grand's suggestions here (https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/clojure/X6BVq_RRY1A) but thought I'd check on existing libraries first |
| 22:59 | xeqi | umpa: depends on the purpose of the counter. I'm more likely to use something like map-indexed |
| 23:00 | devn | ,(loop [cnt 0] (if-not (= cnt 3) (recur (inc cnt)) (println "done"))) |
| 23:00 | clojurebot | done\n |
| 23:00 | devn | ,(loop [cnt 0] (if-not (= cnt 3) (do (println cnt) (recur (inc cnt))) (println "done"))) |
| 23:00 | clojurebot | 0\n1\n2\ndone\n |
| 23:01 | devn | but yeah, listen to xeqi. map-indexed |
| 23:02 | devn | ,(for [[idx x] (map-indexed vector (repeat 10 "X")) :when (< 5 idx)] x) |
| 23:02 | clojurebot | ("X" "X" "X" "X") |
| 23:03 | devn | but that makes little sense... |
| 23:03 | devn | ,(map second (take 4 (map-indexed vector (repeat 10 "X")))) |
| 23:03 | clojurebot | ("X" "X" "X" "X") |
| 23:03 | umpa | let me try it |
| 23:05 | devn | xeqi: temporary fix pushed to style the results at least a little bit |
| 23:05 | devn | search results* |
| 23:05 | devn | umpa: if you post some example code that could be helpful |
| 23:06 | xeqi | technomancy: ^ I can haz redeploy? |
| 23:06 | sneak_peek | devn: any quick feedback on those libraries - even just which you like best |
| 23:06 | technomancy | xeqi: pulling the latest rev of the PR to the instance running on 8002? |
| 23:07 | devn | sneak_peek: honestly, none of the above :X |
| 23:07 | sneak_peek | devn: any suggestions |
| 23:07 | xeqi | technomancy: yes please |
| 23:08 | technomancy | sure; on it |
| 23:08 | devn | sneak_peek: idk man, i would avoid trying to do what you normally do |
| 23:08 | devn | sneak_peek: check out honeysql |
| 23:09 | devn | sneak_peek: or datomic. |
| 23:09 | devn | honestly. probably check out datomic. |
| 23:10 | sneak_peek | devn: :) not sure i can sneak datomic into a polyglot shop quietly. ill hack away at this. thanks for the suggestions |
| 23:10 | technomancy | xeqi: redeployed |
| 23:10 | devn | xeqi: technomancy: _ato: I was just talking with designer folk and we're going to make our logo size smaller, but if you guys decide to deploy tonight NBD, we'll just hit it next |
| 23:11 | technomancy | one thing is that the 8002 deploy doesn't point to the full repo, so it can't parse URL etc from the pom |
| 23:11 | umpa | https://www.refheap.com/86465 here is the loop |
| 23:11 | technomancy | maybe that was being overly paranoid, but I didn't want it connected to live data |
| 23:12 | ddellacosta | sneak_peek: I've used honeysql a lot, I like it because it's a very lightweight layer on top of clojure.java.jdbc, and you can always drop down into raw SQL if you need to. |
| 23:13 | sneak_peek | ddellacosta: ill definitely give that a look - i checked out korma but felt like it tried to do too much at once |
| 23:14 | devn | ,(doseq [group (partition 3 (range 10))] (println group)) |
| 23:14 | clojurebot | (0 1 2)\n(3 4 5)\n(6 7 8)\n |
| 23:14 | devn | ,umpa that code has the same result as yours |
| 23:14 | clojurebot | #<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: umpa in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)> |
| 23:14 | devn | whoops |
| 23:14 | ddellacosta | sneak_peek: I personally feel the same way about Korma; I think it's too heavy as a DSL and adds very little |
| 23:14 | ddellacosta | sneak_peek: while introducing complexity and under-the-covers statefulness that can be hard to debug |
| 23:14 | devn | sneak_peek: im not a huge korma fan. honeysql has worked for me. |
| 23:15 | umpa | haha |
| 23:15 | ddellacosta | sneak_peek: all in all I think that one should either simply embrace SQL in Clojure-land, or move to something like datomic where the challenges are shifted elsewhere |
| 23:15 | devn | (inc ddellacosta) |
| 23:15 | lazybot | ⇒ 3 |
| 23:16 | xeqi | technomancy: thanks |
| 23:17 | technomancy | xeqi: should be easy to update; just `git fetch devn; git checkout devn/reskin; lein2 uberjar; cp target/... /tmp/reskin/...` and ctrl-c+up+ret in window 0 |
| 23:17 | devn | I wrote a fairly query heavy toolkit about 4 months ago in clojure and just embraced SQL. As long as you protect yourself from trying to build your own ORM, you'll be fine. Queries can be namespaced and separated from your code. Once you just give in and give up on ORMs, you find that the world is a simpler place to live in. |
| 23:17 | devn | sneak_peek: ^ |
| 23:17 | xeqi | devn: search and new project are good enough for me to +1. looking forward to seeing future changes |
| 23:17 | ddellacosta | devn: definitely |
| 23:18 | devn | xeqi: yeah, we won't be leaving those pages that way, but they're good enough for a day. you can expect a PR pretty much every day for the rest of the week |
| 23:20 | sneak_peek | devn: ddellacosta: I want to definitely get there. my first inclination was to expose an edn API which would allow me to use a very thin wrapper to create my sql calls. I am currently using sqlingvo for sql generation. supporting legacy applications (Java) is the issue |
| 23:21 | ddellacosta | sneak_peek: it's best simply to focus on your data rather than try to wrap it up; it becomes more natural as you get more comfortable with it. However, I don't have a great solution for supporting legacy apps--at least there hopefully Clojure lessens the pain through its interop features. |
| 23:23 | devn | technomancy: xeqi: I just noticed something that I need to fix |
| 23:23 | devn | I don't believe non-canonical forks are now italicized. Can you confirm? |
| 23:25 | devn | or is this because the full pom map is not available? |
| 23:26 | sneak_peek | ddellacosta: will probably spend the weekend experimenting with this. thanks! |
| 23:27 | ddellacosta | sneak_peek: hope it goes well! I'll add one thing about HoneySQL vs. other DSLs (including sqlingvo, it seems) which I think puts it ahead: it produces an intermediary hash-map for which is manipulable, which can be very useful. But definitely depends on your use-case. |
| 23:27 | ddellacosta | *for SQL |
| 23:28 | sneak_peek | ddellacosta: interesting. i took a quick look - does it not have update/insert/delete support or is that because those are relatively simple operations from a data/string manipulation standpoint |
| 23:29 | ddellacosta | sneak_peek: it does actually, it's just that the docs don't reflect it: https://github.com/jkk/honeysql/pull/20 |
| 23:30 | sneak_peek | ddellacosta: nice! ill definitely try it out |
| 23:31 | xeqi | devn: doesn't look italizied to me |
| 23:31 | sneak_peek | ddellacosta: might also try my hand at creating a simple data mapper that will operate on the data post-query. if i manage to make it work cleanly I'll throw it up on github. username is prachetasp |
| 23:32 | xeqi | devn: <a class="fork" ...>, so I think its a css issue |
| 23:32 | ddellacosta | sneak_peek: what do you mean, data mapper? |
| 23:32 | talios | aftermorning all |
| 23:33 | ddellacosta | sneak_peek: I would be wary of doing too much to the data past what your app/business logic dictates...just based on experience. |
| 23:33 | sneak_peek | ddellacosta: taking the flat relational data and placing into a nested form that can be exposed as json to legacy OOP applications |
| 23:33 | sneak_peek | ddellacosta: if i can't make it lightweight then I'll abandon that route - but i need to be able to support those applications without too much overhead |
| 23:34 | talios | whats the best clojure sql generation lib out there days? sqlkorma or something more shiny? looking for good composition/reuse |
| 23:34 | ddellacosta | sneak_peek: ah. Well, I don't want to be negative and squelch exploration, you should give it a shot and see what you discover. I've had bad luck with those kinds of general approaches, but in the end I think it really depends on the use-case. |
| 23:35 | ddellacosta | sneak_peek: but will be interested to see what you come up with! |
| 23:36 | jonasen | talios: yesql seems like an interesting approach. But it's not really a sql *generation* library |
| 23:36 | jonasen | https://github.com/krisajenkins/yesql |
| 23:37 | sneak_peek | what if i approached the issue from this angle. what is best way to implement a public-facing JSON API in clojure. or is it not well suited to that task |
| 23:37 | ddellacosta | jonasen: yeah, really interesting approach that. Doesn't fit with what we're doing but cool thinking outside the box |
| 23:38 | talios | jonasen - ahhh, yeh - looks nice, but not quite what I'm after. |
| 23:38 | ddellacosta | sneak_peek: Clojure is great for that! (JSON API) |
| 23:40 | sneak_peek | ddellacosta: but not if I can't get the data into a format that makes it easy for OO languages to de/serialize since the majority of clients are going to be written in them |
| 23:40 | devn | sneak_peek: sounds like already know about edn |
| 23:41 | talios | jonasen - a clojure wrapper around jooq would almost be ideal for what I'm after actually ( using jooq at the moment on this small project, which is all java, nice - apart from some of the unweildy type signatures when you deviate the norm |
| 23:41 | ddellacosta | sneak_peek: I don't see why you need to do anything other than spit out flat records such that a database would produce. How is that hard to consume? |
| 23:42 | talios | euuu - don't let the REST NAZI's here you say that! |
| 23:42 | talios | oh wait - I'm one of them. |
| 23:42 | ddellacosta | talios: but, this has nothing to do with REST, does it? |
| 23:42 | ddellacosta | talios: sorry, dunno if you were responding to me or not |
| 23:42 | talios | JSON API sounds very RESTy related :) |
| 23:43 | sneak_peek | ddellacosta: talios: whoops yeah forgot to mention that part |
| 23:43 | sneak_peek | its an HTTP REST API |
| 23:43 | talios | but yes - on the basic level, serialize to JSON and let it fly. Links and other stuff can come ontop. Or you could serialize to something like HAL that includes links etc. in the payload. |
| 23:43 | talios | really should update the clojure api for HalBuilder |
| 23:44 | talios | also really should release a new version of HalBuilder itself. |
| 23:44 | sneak_peek | ddellacosta: so how does the flat representation translate cleanly into an everything-must-be-an-object language like Java. just have one giant flat object? |
| 23:45 | ddellacosta | sneak_peek: I don't understand, I thought we were talking about HTTP? You don't have to worry about objects if you are just talking about pushing something out to a restful API |
| 23:45 | talios | less object, more structure. a clojure map/list structure translates to JSON fine... |
| 23:45 | ddellacosta | talios: yeah, exactly |
| 23:46 | talios | which, if given a known structure, could be deserialized INTO a object/class for java clients, or a Map |
| 23:47 | sneak_peek | ddellacosta: talios: the json serialization is trivial but im thinking about ease of use for people creating clients in OO languages. I do not want to impose a burden on them to create custom deserializations |
| 23:48 | talios | they wouldn't need to - deserialize to a Map - and if they WANT to have a fixed model, they can. |
| 23:48 | ddellacosta | sneak_peek: but they will have to anyways. You can't anticipate how people will use the API. All you can do is give them a clean data structure to work with, which is infinitely preferable to some kind of object-mapping interchange thing anyways |
| 23:48 | amalloy | just output json. everyone in every language is well used to consuming json-y stuff |
| 23:48 | amalloy | or edn, whatever |
| 23:49 | sneak_peek | anyone know of an API that does flat json like this? |
| 23:49 | talios | our entire system :) |
| 23:49 | talios | my simple sample API on http://www.gotohal.net/restbucks does it to. a bit more richer JSON structure as its HAL+JSON tho |
| 23:49 | ddellacosta | sneak_peek: flickr is just records. Most APIs I've used are just records actually. For example: https://www.flickr.com/services/api/flickr.blogs.getList.html |
| 23:50 | amalloy | every api in the world? i don't understand the question. like, for example http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit.json |
| 23:50 | amalloy | or github's api. it's all json |
| 23:51 | talios | http://www.gotohal.net/restbucks/api/orders is a sample order-list resource on my sample API |
| 23:51 | talios | HAL+JSON adding links. |
| 23:52 | ddellacosta | amalloy: I guess sneak_peek is talking about some kind of hierarchy vs. flat representation, not so much the format. But flat doesn't make it any harder to parse the relationships as long as there are IDs involved. |
| 23:59 | sneak_peek | ddellacosta: sorry bout that - internet connection crapped out |
| 23:59 | ddellacosta | sneak_peek: no worries. |
| 23:59 | sneak_peek | ddellacosta: was something like this what you were talking about? e.g. prefixing with the entity name? {"user.name": "xxx", "account.balance": 10} |
