#clojure – 2014-05-13

2014-05-13

00:11	muhuk	ambrosebs: there's 247 lines of code there. If you sum up the code I have read in my entire life, it wouldn't come close to that number.
00:13	ambrosebs	the problem is line 120
00:13	ambrosebs	it's obviously a symbol, but the reader does something crazy to it
00:13	ambrosebs	I couldn't reproduce with a smaller vector
00:14	ambrosebs	look for NonEmptySeqable
00:14	ambrosebs	could someone confirm for me?
00:14	ambrosebs	just dump that vector into your REPL and run the interactions at the bottom
00:15	ambrosebs	I'm running 1.5.1
00:15	amalloy	ambrosebs: you have an errant ` at the end of line 116
00:15	ambrosebs	amalloy: <3
00:16	amalloy	the seq/concat/list stuff is the telltale sign that syntax-quote is involved; after that you can just search for `
00:17	ambrosebs	amalloy: thanks
00:17	ambrosebs	git blame told me I just committed it.
00:17	ambrosebs	ouch
00:23	_oggy	what's the standard clojure way of delaying an evaluation of an expression? i.e., the counterpart of ML's "fn () => exp"?
00:25	TimMc	amalloy: Sorry to hear about the Geni team. Anything you can share?
00:25	amalloy	TimMc: oh, this was months ago. back in october
00:25	catern	_oggy: it might be (delay expr)
00:25	amalloy	er, november
00:25	catern	but I'm new
00:25	TimMc	Oh huh.
00:25	amalloy	i'm at factual now, Raynes is at scopely. ninjudd is trying to do some startup
00:26	Raynes	God help us all amirite amirite
00:26	Raynes	TimMc: We is all doin' fine tho :3
00:26	amalloy	lancepantz is rolling around on a giant pile of money, according to Raynes
00:26	muhuk	_oggy: catern is right. (def d (delay expr)) then @d to execute
00:26	TimMc	Oh, LinkedIn tells me what happened.
00:26	muhuk	_oggy: wrapping the expression in an fn also works
00:27	TimMc	...no it doesn't, never mind.
00:27	_oggy	catern, muhuk: thanks!
00:27	muhuk	_oggy: there's also agent & future with concurrency
00:27	muhuk	yw
00:28	_oggy	muhuk: i'm not looking at concurrency
00:29	_oggy	i essentially want to build a procedure f with 3 arguments, create "(f a b c)" and then call it later
00:30	muhuk	_oggy: got it. delay then. Here's the implementation: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/028af0e0b271aa558ea44780e5d951f4932c7842/src/clj/clojure/core.clj#L705
00:31	catern	muhuk: out of curiousity did you just search for that? or get a link to it some other way?
00:31	_oggy	muhuk: does this always cache the result? since i might be using global state in there
00:32	muhuk	catern: I keep this page open all times http://clojure.github.io/clojure/clojure.core-api.html :)
00:32	_oggy	i.e. i don't want caching :)
00:32	catern	muhuk: like any good clojurist!
00:33	muhuk	_oggy: that's why I mentioned agent & future, they're all IDeref's
00:33	muhuk	_oggy: why don't you want memoizing? Will you defer something with side effects?
00:34	_oggy	muhuk: yes
00:34	muhuk	catern: yes, a.k.a noobs ;)
00:35	muhuk	_oggy: how about wrapping with fn? I'd try that before creating a delay-like macro.
00:35	muhuk	_oggy: also, if side-effects are involved, perhaps you can find and elegant solution with a lazy-seq instead of a callable.
00:36	_oggy	muhuk: actually that's probably what i want. i failed to realize i can do just fn [] - noob :)
00:37	_oggy	i was thinking along the lines of "what arguments do i give to fn" (in ML you'd commonly give the unit), but i don't need to give any
00:39	catern	_oggy: are you coming from Ocaml?
00:39	_oggy	no, SML and haskell
00:40	catern	ah, my experience is all with SML as well :)
00:47	muhuk	I'm trying to create a checker (Midje) and use it like this: (make-foo) => (implements-protocols A B C)
00:49	catern	in that case, you could do (partial implements-protocols A B C)
00:49	muhuk	I tried this: (defn implements-protocols [& protocols] (checker [obj] (let [t (type obj)] (every? #(extends? % t) protocols)))))
00:49	muhuk	catern: I'm trying to avoid partial
00:49	muhuk	catern: that's why implements-protocols is an fn that returns a checker (not a defchecker)
00:50	catern	well, okay
00:50	muhuk	I see now that my every? fails, it seems Midje does what I expect.
00:51	muhuk	(added true at the tail of checker, tests pass)
00:51	muhuk	ah, sorry I'm calling type on the left hand side like an idiot.
00:56	kenrestivo	if i wanted a clojurey nosql database that might have high write loads (i.e. not datomic), what would be good?
00:59	kenrestivo	for running on a vps with limited ram too (ruling out dbms's that require keeping everything in ram)
01:53	rshetty	Hey
01:54	rshetty	I was going through the concepts related to Functional Programming, Mainly Monoids and Monads. Could someone point me to some references which delineate the concepts such as Monads and its usage. Thanks
01:56	rshetty	And also some of the commonly used Monads in Clojure
01:56	amalloy	nobody outside of haskell really uses monads formally
02:00	beamso	scala?
02:00	clojurebot	{((x: Any, y: Any) => (f: Function2[Any, Any, Any]) => f(x, y))(1, 2)((x: Any, y: Any) => x)}
02:04	beamso	i forgot about that clojurebot functionality
02:04	beamso	c?
02:04	beamso	:(
02:18	sm0ke	is it possible to import a clojure record in a java class without :aot ?
02:27	muhuk	sm0ke: when you defrecord, it compiles, no?
02:28	muhuk	rshetty: I'm no expert on monads etc. But I think it's more likely to get an answer if you ask a more specific question.
02:29	sm0ke	muhuk: yes but i said without :aot
02:29	rshetty	muhuk: How to get started to understand monads ? :)
02:30	ddellacosta	rshetty: why do you care about learning monads? If you really want to understand them, I would suggest #1 go hang out in #haskell, and #2 read this: http://dev.stephendiehl.com/hask/#monads
02:30	ddellacosta	rshetty: which is to say, you're not going to get much value in learning about monads until you understand what problems they are good at solving--and these problems are not nearly as pressing in Clojure as they are in Haskell.
02:32	rshetty	ddellacosta: I do hangout on #hashkell and I have asked similar question waiting for the answer. Yeah, I want to understand their usage and what makes them special and mysterious
02:32	rshetty	ddellacosta: So are you telling that monads are not used so much in #clojure ?
02:33	ddellacosta	rshetty: no, as amalloy was saying
02:33	muhuk	rshetty: I've found this video to be a very good intro http://vimeo.com/20717301
02:34	rshetty	muhuk: Thanks Let me check
02:34	muhuk	rshetty: also there are really good articles on monads, implementation of monads, monads in clojure here: clojure.net
02:35	muhuk	sm0ke: what do you mean without :aot? Are you creating your record without calling defrecord?
02:35	ddellacosta	I still don't understand why people are so obsessed with monads, but I'll go away before I start grumbling too much about how you should learn how Haskell's type system works first before you should give a crap about them...
02:35	amalloy	fwiw, rshetty, even if the articles you've just been sent are great, they probably won't help you that much. nobody gets it on the first try; the fifth time you read a monad article it finally clicks, and then you share it with everyone else, thinking it was this one great article. really it was all the articles added together that finally clicked in your brain
02:36	amalloy	the one that did it for me was http://cdsmith.wordpress.com/2012/04/18/why-do-monads-matter/
02:37	rshetty	ammalloy: Thanks Let me check
02:38	muhuk	amalloy: LOL, I can't help but agree with you.
03:21	sm0ke	How do i create a IFn in java class?
03:21	sm0ke	i want simple function, like #(my.org.Class. %) kind of function
03:25	muhuk	sm0ke: there's a new Java API in 1.6
03:25	muhuk	sm0ke: see changes.md in source
03:26	sm0ke	no i want to be able to support 1.4+
03:26	beamso	sm0ke: muhuk means that clojure v1.6 has a new java api.
03:28	muhuk	sm0ke: then you need to implement clojure.lang.IFn I suppose. Seems like too many methods to implement just to throw ArityException.
03:29	muhuk	maybe there's an easier way
03:29	pyrtsa	clojure.lang.AFn?
03:30	muhuk	ha!
03:30	pyrtsa	https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/AFn.java
03:30	Glenjamin	is there some sort of Traits type thing so you can implement IFn without extending AF
03:31	Glenjamin	*AFn
03:31	sm0ke	i need to implement that?
03:32	sm0ke	i dont think that is required, i can use Compile.load on a string too?
03:32	muhuk	Glenjamin: why would you need that? You can just extend AFn and implement the relevbant arities.
03:32	Glenjamin	muhuk: because perhaps you already extend something else?
03:33	Glenjamin	class MyFancyMap extends java.util.HashMap { or whatever
03:33	muhuk	Glenjamin: right. I would accept that as a dependency then.
03:33	Glenjamin	if you want to implement a few large interfaces, you'll have to write a load of code
03:34	muhuk	Glenjamin: welcome to the Java land.
03:34	Glenjamin	not in java 8 apparently :)
03:35	Glenjamin	but yeah, clojure does enough code generation already that it could help with this scenario - although it wouldn't want to be seen to encourage nested class inheritance i'm sure
03:37	pyrtsa	I think the most important question here is, why do you want your Java class to implement IFn? Can you not just wrap it with something like #(.myInvoke my-instance %)?
03:37	Glenjamin	(inc pyrtsa)
03:37	lazybot	⇒ 5
03:38	sm0ke	pyrtsa: no, i will have a cyclic dep
03:38	sm0ke	between java and clojure
03:38	pyrtsa	Clojure itself builds its data structures quite tightly coupled around AFn: PersistentHashMap extends APersistentMap extends AFn, and the rest are interfaces.
03:39	sm0ke	i can go though the Iterable in java class and `map` it but then i will lose laziness
03:39	Glenjamin	sm0ke: sounds like you need to implement clojure.lang.Seqable
03:39	sm0ke	i am not sure if this will help http://google-collections.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/javadoc/com/google/common/collect/Iterables.html
03:39	sm0ke	looks pretty interesting
03:40	sm0ke	Glenjamin: ugh
03:40	Glenjamin	can you describe what you're trying to acheive in a bit of a wider picture?
03:40	sm0ke	there is a transform there
03:41	sm0ke	Glenjamin: i have a lazy seq from clojure coming into my java fucntion, but i want to transform it a bit in java function
03:41	sm0ke	before returining it back
03:41	sm0ke	makes sense?
03:42	Glenjamin	yes
03:42	Glenjamin	well, no
03:42	Glenjamin	why not just do it in clojure
03:42	sm0ke	the transformation is like converting it to a Java Class, but i would be compiling java after clojure
03:42	sm0ke	so thats why i can not do it in clojure
03:42	sm0ke	now?
03:44	Glenjamin	sorry, i didn't follow that last bit
03:44	sm0ke	hurm
03:44	sm0ke	ugh how come i never though this
03:45	sm0ke	sorry i think i can refer java classes from clojure, it would be cyclic but should work
03:47	sm0ke	but still that google library looks interesting
04:04	adulteratedjedi	.
04:09	maxthour1ie	what does this section of numeric tower do? https://github.com/clojure/math.numeric-tower/blob/master/src/main/clojure/clojure/math/numeric_tower.clj#L57
04:10	maxthoursie	shouldn't (first [-' -]) always return -' ?
04:11	maxthoursie	i.e. what's the relevant difference between 1.2.x. and 1.3 here
04:15	amalloy	maxthoursie: 1.2.x and below didn't allow ' in symbols
04:15	amalloy	so it parsed as [- '-]
04:16	maxthoursie	oh, nasty
04:16	ambrosebs	haha
04:16	maxthoursie	feel's like one of those html tricks
04:16	ambrosebs	that's insane
04:19	maxthoursie	it could deserve a comment in that piece of code
04:23	amalloy	ambrosebs: i think i was the one who suggested using that as a 1.3 detector. could be a false memory, though, it's a bit fuzzy
04:24	ambrosebs	amalloy: it's awesome.
04:24	amalloy	if not, i at least helped popularize knowledge of it to library authors :P
04:24	ambrosebs	thank god 1.2 is ancient history
04:28	maxthoursie	shows the need for something like feature expressions
04:55	ddellacosta	I no longer know what it is appropriate to test
05:46	turbopape	Hi, Any Idea why C-c C-S (go to source) in emacs / cider would return source not found ?
06:03	sm0ke	may be code is :aot'd turbopape
06:03	sm0ke	and :omit-source true is set
06:04	turbopape	nope, It isn't... think it is something I messed up with my setup...
06:04	sm0ke	or may be your setup is faulty
06:04	sm0ke	:D
06:04	sm0ke	jar -tvf my.jar \| grep *.clj
06:04	sm0ke	try this
06:04	sm0ke	to be sure
06:05	turbopape	I'm not even at the "jar " stage,
06:05	turbopape	it is a project I'm editing...
06:06	turbopape	I'm trying to see "my fns" sources :)
06:28	sm0ke	what more idiomatic for empty/nil check? (seq x) or (not-emtpy x)
06:28	martinklepsch	sm0ke I think (seq x)
06:29	martinklepsch	at least that's what I've been told
06:30	sm0ke	hurm, not-empty is useful if you want to preserve collection as is i guess
06:30	sm0ke	,(seq [1 2 3])
06:30	clojurebot	(1 2 3)
06:30	sm0ke	,(not-empty [1 2 3])
06:30	clojurebot	[1 2 3]
06:30	pyrtsa	I too think it's (seq x), but I would prefer (if-not (empty? x) ...) over that.
06:31	sm0ke	yea but (if-let [y (not-empty x)] ..)
06:31	sm0ke	is very useful imo
06:31	pyrtsa	(not-empty xs) is for similar uses as (empty xs).
06:32	pyrtsa	sm0ke: Yes, but you weren't asking that.
06:32	sm0ke	:P
06:32	pyrtsa	empty/nil check is different from if-let.
06:32	sm0ke	ok then whats ideal inside if-let ?
06:33	sm0ke	seq or not-empty?
06:33	pyrtsa	For if-let, I'd use not-empty.
06:33	sm0ke	why is that?
06:33	sm0ke	you just like long names? dont you
06:33	sm0ke	:D
06:34	pyrtsa	Because I might know that the input must be a vector, thus random-accessible, and I might want to use that fact inside the if-let.
06:34	pyrtsa	The result of (seq xs) won't have random access.
06:34	pyrtsa	And no, I don't particularly like long names.
06:34	sm0ke	(inc pyrtsa)
06:34	lazybot	⇒ 6
06:35	sm0ke	50% of your karma has come by me i think
06:35	pyrtsa	Thanks! :)
06:52	clgv	$source not-empty
06:52	lazybot	not-empty is http://is.gd/2jyOzN
06:52	clgv	pyrtsa: sm0ke: have a look^^
06:53	clgv	`not-empty` is a trojan `seq` :P
06:59	sm0ke	haha funny
07:00	Bala_	Hello
07:00	sm0ke	and why isnt he using `if`
07:00	sm0ke	whats with then when
07:00	sm0ke	with the*
07:01	clgv	sm0ke: it is idiomatic use `when` in case you have no "else" clause
07:02	sm0ke	oh didnt know that, makes sense
07:02	sm0ke	you wont be searching for else cluse
07:04	clgv	sm0ke: and you do not need a (do ...) within the when clause
07:07	sm0ke	yea that i know
07:08	martinklepsch	is there a function to go into a namespace in the repl? ideally it'd also supply all the :as mappings from the ns binding
07:09	sm0ke	(ns name.space) doesnt work?
07:10	clgv	martinklepsch: (require 'my.ns) (in-ns 'my.ns)
07:10	clgv	the first one to make sure the namespace is loaded
07:12	sm0ke	how is it different from (ns my.ns)? clgv
07:12	clgv	sm0ke: that creates a new namespace
07:13	clgv	sm0ke: if you look at editor-REPL-integration code they use in-ns
07:13	sm0ke	ok
07:53	gfredericks	&(- 1400000000000 (System/currentTimeMillis))
07:53	lazybot	⇒ 18142727
08:01	clgv	,(/ 18142727 1000 3600 24)
08:01	clojurebot	18142727/86400000
08:01	clgv	,(/ 18142727 1000 3600 24.0)
08:01	clojurebot	0.20998526620370372
08:01	clgv	,(/ 18142727 1000 3600)
08:01	clojurebot	18142727/3600000
08:01	clgv	,(/ 18142727 1000 3600.0)
08:01	clojurebot	5.0396463888888885
08:01	clgv	so that's in 5 hours ;)
08:04	gfredericks	,(let [t (- 1400000000000 (System/currentTimeMillis))] (apply format "%02d:%02d:%02d.%03d" (map (fn [[q m]] (mod (quot t q) m)) [[3600000 100000000] [60000 60] [1000 60] [1 1000]])))
08:04	clojurebot	"04:53:48.833"
08:10	gfredericks	why have I not read about this in the news? there must be some sort of media coverup
08:10	clgv	:D
08:10	pyrtsa	https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7736739
08:13	Morgawr	how can I conj an element inside an atom holding a [] and know at which position in the vector the element was put?
08:14	Morgawr	if I check before adding and then atomically swap or if I check after atomically swapping I have no guarantee that some other thread didn't conj too
08:14	Morgawr	should I use refs?
08:14	gyim	you can use reset!
08:14	Morgawr	that sound like a bad idea :\|
08:14	gyim	why?
08:14	clojurebot	why is startup slow is busy compiling the `for` macroexpansion
08:14	gyim	oh, sorry
08:14	pyrtsa	Morgawr: The result of swap! will be the new vector. It's length minus one is the position.
08:14	gyim	i meant swap!
08:14	Morgawr	pyrtsa: ah, right
08:15	Morgawr	pyrtsa: good point, thanks! :)
08:15	gyim	so you can pass a function to swap! that does all of this
08:15	pyrtsa	There are times, though, when you need to know after the swap! what the value had been right before the call. Then the only help in clojure.core is compare-and-set!, and a hand-written retry loop.
08:16	Morgawr	pyrtsa: yeah, not a problem in this case
09:06	Morgawr	is there an easy implementation/library to use sqlite with clojure?
09:06	jeremyheiler	Morgawr: like jdbc?
09:07	jeremyheiler	https://github.com/clojure/java.jdbc
09:07	Morgawr	jeremyheiler: I never used jdbc so I don't know, is that the java API for databases?
09:07	jeremyheiler	it is, and that's the clojure wrapper lib.
09:07	jeremyheiler	sqlite is one of the examples
09:08	Morgawr	jeremyheiler: I see, I'll give a look at it, I've also seen this http://sqlkorma.com/docs
09:09	jeremyheiler	that's built on top of java.jdbc
09:10	jeremyheiler	it servers as an abstraction for sql, where jdbc is about connecting and using the sql. i use honeysql for generating the sql.
09:10	Morgawr	jeremyheiler: ah, cool, I'll check this stuff out then, thanks
09:11	jeremyheiler	np!
09:12	mdrogalis	If anybody here is using Dire, I have a new technique for runtime aspect injection you might want to check out: http://michaeldrogalis.tumblr.com/post/85617979546/getting-a-grip-on-the-small-things
09:16	emil0r	does anyone know of a clojure migration library that can handle data migrations?
09:17	ssideris	emil0r: https://github.com/macourtney/drift
09:17	jeremyheiler	emil0r: also https://github.com/weavejester/ragtime
09:17	ssideris	Morgawr: I personally think that https://github.com/jkk/honeysql is a better approach to korma
09:19	mdrogalis	Yeah, agreed, ssideris.
09:19	clgv	mdrogalis: interesting. let's see what you got. unfortunately I did not use that lib much lately
09:21	emil0r	thanks
09:21	mdrogalis	clgv: Finally found the last piece of the puzzle I wanted to make aspects not-so-scary.
09:23	clgv	mdrogalis: I liked the lib earlier on but stopped using it because it did not catch the Exceptions properly since it was hard to figure out the exceptionclass at the level where I wanted to catch it ;)
09:24	mdrogalis	clgv: Yeah, that's another thing to be worked on at some point. No time right now though. D:
09:32	martinklepsch	I'm implementing a system that parses and indexes xml snippets that are read from disk. I now want to make it fast to re-indexing everything could be done quickly. I use a queue with multiple worker processes but I fail to better understand the performance implications of my code and how to properly make use of the resources I have available.
09:33	mdeboard	martinklepsch: I have that problem a lot
09:33	martinklepsch	mdeboard, what do you tend to do then?
09:33	mdeboard	"I fail to better understand the performance implications of my code and how to properly make use of the resources I have available"
09:33	mdeboard	In fact that's just my steady state
09:33	mdeboard	martinklepsch: Read, ask questions.
09:34	martinklepsch	mdeboard, just out of curiousity, do you have formal CS education?
09:34	mdeboard	martinklepsch: I do not
09:34	mdeboard	If you want to better understand the resources you have available I can recommend a very good book
09:35	mdeboard	Systems Performance by Brendan Gregg
09:35	martinklepsch	mdeboard, I neither
09:38	mdeboard	I think pretty much every programmer ever experiences a failure to better understand the performance implications of their code and how to properly make use of the resources they have available
09:38	mdeboard	So don't feel bad
09:38	mdeboard	BTW that is really just an amazing accidental quote. :P
09:41	martinklepsch	Yeah, I don't feel bad about it, just wondering how to change that :)
09:42	martinklepsch	mdeboard, what quote?
09:43	mdeboard	"I fail to better understand the performance implications of my code and how to properly make use of the resources I have available."
09:43	martinklepsch	ah
09:43	mdeboard	Perfect summary of programming :P
09:46	martinklepsch	any other things that I should checkout? I suck at reading books... they sometimes feel like "premature learning", esp. when they are like 500 pages long
09:46	mdeboard	Systems Performance is not
09:47	mdeboard	It's more of a reference material but some chapters are worth reading
09:47	catern	I have multiple predicates and exprs, and I want to check all the predicates and do all the exprs for which the predicates are true. Is there a clojure builtin for this?
09:47	mdeboard	Like how to gather system information at runtime of your program etc.
09:50	clgv	martinklepsch: first you should start measuring in which parts of the code your program spends the most time. JVisualVM or Yourkit are tools tha can be used for that
09:54	martinklepsch	clgv, yourkit isn't free is it?
09:56	clgv	martinklepsch: no. though they provide free licenses for opensource projects. there should be a limited trial version so that you can tackle your current problem
09:56	martinklepsch	clgv, I might just try jvisualvm first
09:56	martinklepsch	(which seems to be oss)
09:57	clgv	yeah just try it out
10:16	devn	technomancy: Someone newish to Clojue just asked me: "Where is Clojure 1.6 on clojars?" -- I found you pushed 1.5.0-alpha3 to clojars awhile back. Do those need to be up there? Just curious.
10:22	clgv	devn: no they are on maven central
10:22	clgv	devn: http://search.maven.org/#search\|gav\|1\|g%3A%22org.clojure%22%20AND%20a%3A%22clojure%22
10:23	hyPiRion	hrm, we should probably have a mirror on Clojars though
10:26	meng_1h	#jquery
10:35	User120	stu "d!ckless" lantz betrays all; trannys & queers(chaste Homos/a$$holes), rule; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_by_country
10:36	User120	gone
10:36	farhaven	uhm
10:36	farhaven	spam is weird...
10:38	silasdavis	I'm trying to push to clojars with lein deploy clojars
10:38	silasdavis	and I'm getting ReasonPhrase: Forbidden.
10:38	silasdavis	I've reentered my armored public key multiple times into clojar's profile page
10:38	silasdavis	is there any other reason it could be happening
10:38	silasdavis	It's only a 4k jar file
10:43	jcromartie	I'm having a hard time splitting runtime from config
10:43	jcromartie	my uberjar compilation should not depend on config
10:44	jcromartie	I guess it's the universal advice: don't use globals
10:44	jcromartie	since some of the config stuff manifests itself as globals
10:53	connor28	Hello everyone. I'm getting back into programming after many years (and even back then, I knew just some basic C/Java). I want to learn something that's fun, and quite different from what I know. Do you recommend Clojure?
10:54	systemfault	Sure ;)
10:55	hyPiRion	connor28: You're asking in #clojure, what answer do you expect? :p
10:55	tim_	connor28: no, here in #clojure we never recommend the language, it's utter crap :-P
10:55	systemfault	We all hate Clojure
10:55	connor28	Haha LOL
10:56	systemfault	connor28: Seriously, just play with it, you might love it.
10:56	hyPiRion	connor28: I think it sort of depends on what you want to do. Do you want to make some specific thing, or do you want to learn new a way to look at programming?
10:56	clgv	honestly, [they] hacked most of it together with Perl.
10:56	connor28	No, I mean - I have no commercial aspirations, I'd just like to learn something that's fun, so that's one factor out of the variable. I also want to learn a language that's different enough from C/Java, so it'll be like learning to program again.
10:56	clgv	http://xkcd.com/224/
10:57	hyPiRion	connor28: then I would at least recommend it. It's very different from C/Java in many aspect
10:57	systemfault	Different in a good way :P
10:58	connor28	I see. That's good to know.
10:58	hyPiRion	While syntax may seems like the most crazy thing, I think the hardest is to work with immutable values. I remember I had serious issues working with it
10:58	hyPiRion	It's super valuable for me nowadays though
10:59	connor28	What would be the best books you'd recommend for Clojure?
10:59	silasdavis	I am getting Forbidden errors trying to push to clojars, it's driving me mad
10:59	silasdavis	it's worked before
10:59	hyPiRion	http://www.clojurebook.com/ is the one I've heard is the best, but that was some time ago
11:00	silasdavis	I've checked my password... I've tried with registered email and username (which should you use?))
11:00	hyPiRion	Not much has changed in the language though, so it's not (too) outdated
11:00	hyPiRion	silasdavis: username
11:00	cbp	You could try the clojure cookbook
11:02	clgv	connor28: choose either "Clojure Programming" or "Programming Clojure (2nd edition)" depending which writing style suits you best
11:04	connor28	OK I'll check that books out. Thanks guys
11:07	clgv	mdrogalis: interesting. though there is no possibility to deactivate one of the aspects, right?
11:08	mdrogalis	clgv: There is. remove-<whatever>
11:08	mdrogalis	Not sure if I ever updated the docs.
11:08	clgv	mdrogalis: no, I mean in the component setup you describe in the above linked post
11:09	mdrogalis	clgv: Oh. I believe you can reach into the 'started' system and stop individual components. Probably a stuartsierra question though
11:09	mdrogalis	I havent tried it
11:09	clgv	yeah. that's right. component would have to provide something like that
11:10	clgv	hmm well, dire could provide some grouping of handlers as well such that all hooks are de-/activated via one function call
11:10	stuartsierra	clgv, mdrogalis: You could reach into the system and stop individual components, but be aware that any changes to those component records returned by `stop` will not propagate to their dependencies.
11:10	devn	emacs24 on linux AMI -- how do? I cannot find an RPM anywhere.
11:11	mdrogalis	Seems fair if used with caution.
11:11	mdrogalis	I haven't run into a situation where I wanted to do that, though.
11:15	hyPiRion	devn: I don't use AMI, but for my work machinges I usually fetch the build dependencies and build from source.
11:23	gfredericks	the latest-version.svg images from clojars are thwarted by github caching things
11:26	llasram	gfredericks: is github not respecting cache-control headers?
11:27	gfredericks	no idea
11:28	gfredericks	I don't see any cache-related headers from clojars
11:28	llasram	Oh
11:29	hyPiRion	gfredericks: last modified?
11:29	gfredericks	Server/Date/Content-Type/Connection/Set-Cookie/X-Frame-Options/Content-Length
11:32	gfredericks	https://github.com/ato/clojars-web/blob/master/src/clojars/routes/artifact.clj#L57-60
11:32	gfredericks	prolly not hard to fix there; I am not a knows-much-about-http though
11:33	TimMc	gfredericks: I thought those were passthrough, not proxies!
11:33	TimMc	*proxied
11:34	gfredericks	those?
11:35	TimMc	Images included in github doc files.
11:36	gfredericks	https://github.com/github/markup/issues/224
11:37	gfredericks	a cursory glance at that suggests an appropriate heading could fix it
11:37	gfredericks	header*
11:44	TimMc	Maybe. According to that thread, setting Cache-Control may not be enough...
11:44	gfredericks	I'll go file an issue with clojars
11:46	gfredericks	https://github.com/ato/clojars-web/issues/207
11:50	gfredericks	oh snap somebody made a PR before I could even file an issue
11:50	clgv	awesome :D
11:55	clgv	gfredericks: at least you were faster than travis-ci ;)
12:05	jcromartie	when I start a clojure app with lein run
12:05	jcromartie	the pid that I get from my shell ($!) is for a bash process that starts lein
12:06	jcromartie	and when I kill that bash process, it doesn't kill the java process
12:06	technomancy	jcromartie: try lein trampoline run
12:07	jcromartie	there we go
12:09	squidz	does anybody here have any experience making apps for android? I was planning on making an app that relies on a compojure backend with react front end using phonegap. But after hearing that phonegap is a pain in the ass, I was wondering if anybody knows of any alternatives?
12:11	kenrestivo	squid: i used clojure to make an android app
12:11	kenrestivo	squidz: ^
12:11	kenrestivo	the disadvantage is the startup time is very long, but this was a streaming radio player so startup time wasn't such a big deal.
12:14	squidz	kenrestivo: what did you use?
12:15	squidz	or has anybody here had any success using something like phonegap?
12:15	kenrestivo	squidz: i used clojure :-) clojure-android
12:16	kenrestivo	no gap or any of that
12:17	kenrestivo	https://github.com/kenrestivo/spazradioapp <- squidz
12:18	squidz	kenrestivo: how long is the startup time usually?
12:23	stompyj	Just checked out braveclojure.com today. It’s written exceedingly well
12:36	PigDude	really?
12:37	PigDude	it seemed sort of all overthe place to me, amit rathor's book seemed better for beginners
12:38	technomancy	I really didn't like clojure in action
12:38	Glenjamin	i'm not keen on teaching emacs and clojure at the same time
12:38	technomancy	at least for an early draft I read; I ended up more confused about multimethods after reading its explanation than when I started.
12:39	technomancy	maybe the final draft was better, but I'd still recommend clojurebook.com over it
12:39	Glenjamin	i started learning both, admittedly not from one source, and abandoned emacs with the intention of returning later
12:39	Glenjamin	still havent
12:39	PigDude	technomancy: its treatments of multimethods and protocols are long-winded and kind of confusing, i agree
12:40	aaelony	09:24 *** lw JOI
12:40	PigDude	technomancy: i found the other early material accessible and a good ramp into "joy of clojure" and other stuff
12:40	aaelony	what's folks' favorite manner to sort a map by value?
12:41	Glenjamin	aaelony: maintain an index as another sorted map of value => key
12:41	Glenjamin	but the proper answer is: it depends how you need to access the data
12:42	aaelony	Glenjamin: That's a good idea, but I wish there was something more perlish...
12:42	PigDude	Glenjamin: what does that look like?
12:42	Glenjamin	PigDude: (def my-map {:a 123}) (def index (sorted-map 123 :a))
12:43	Glenjamin	or, more likely:
12:43	PigDude	Glenjamin: i mean the index maintenance part. i know how i might do it but i'm curious how you do it
12:43	stompyj	PigDude: what book is amits?
12:43	Glenjamin	oh
12:43	coventry`	aaelony: Do you mean something like (sort-by second my-map)?
12:43	Glenjamin	i have a function that updates both
12:43	PigDude	stompyj: "Clojure in Action" by Manning Press
12:43	stompyj	checking
12:44	stompyj	ahhh interesting
12:44	PigDude	Glenjamin: ok making sure i wasn't missing something, tha'ts how i'd do it too
12:44	stompyj	I’m looking for resources to get people ramped up / excited bout clojure
12:44	Glenjamin	maybe it's doable with watches and metadata or something
12:44	stompyj	the oreilly one was the best I had found so far
12:44	Glenjamin	but i keep it simple
12:44	aaelony	coventry: yes!! that's my favorite so far :)
12:44	Glenjamin	stompyj: i generally recommend http://aphyr.com/tags/Clojure-from-the-ground-up to everyone
12:44	PigDude	stompyj: i like to grab them all :) each has its flaws
12:44	aaelony	very elegant
12:45	stompyj	clojure from the ground up is quite good too
12:46	PigDude	Glenjamin: hehe the "welcome" page sure blind-sided me :)
13:01	mr-foobar	happy 1400000000
13:02	dan	"lein compile" on macos takes 60s+ to run when it's asked to compile a top-level call to (clojure.java.shell/sh "/bin/true")
13:02	dan	anyone seen that or know why?
13:02	martinklepsch	why isn't my clojure program ran by lighttable showing up in visualvm?
13:03	dan	(if you're wonderiong why I'm running shell commands at compile time, it's because I haven't found a better way to compile C code from leiningen yet)
13:04	technomancy	dan: yeah, there are a lot of things wrong with that
13:04	dan	far as I can work out from dtruss, it's waiting on some condition variable or something?
13:04	technomancy	the root cause is that sh spins up a thread pool which keeps the JVM from exiting for 60s
13:04	dan	psynch_cvwait
13:04	dan	ah, that'd be it, yes
13:05	technomancy	but that doesn't mean shutting down the thread pool is the right fix
13:05	technomancy	you should add a lein-shell invocation to :prep-tasks in project.clj instead
13:06	dan	ok, thanks. I have a somewhat convoluted build, where some clojure code generates a C program source file then compiles and runs it and parses the output
13:06	clgv	martinklepsch: for benchmarking you should build a jar and run that.
13:07	martinklepsch	clgv so not even run it from the repl?
13:07	dan	this is all in the interest of reliably getting struct element offsets for use with jna
13:07	martinklepsch	gtg
13:07	martinklepsch	cheers, clgv
13:08	clgv	martinklepsch: usually not because leiningen uses several optimizations for faster startup. you can switch those off in project.clj via :jvm-opts ^:replace []
13:08	martinklepsch	k, cool
13:08	martinklepsch	good to know
13:08	martinklepsch	thanks!
13:09	dan	but thanks, I'll look at prep-tasks
13:12	technomancy	dan: it sounds like what you're describing is a circular dependency though
13:12	technomancy	that can be a lot trickier to express
13:16	cbp	is there a time lib for cljs? goog.date.Date is mutable when doing something like (.add (Date.) (Interval. Interval/MONTHS 1)) and me no likey
13:17	ToxicFrog	So, with multimethods, I can use (defmethod key args & body) to create a new dispatcher.
13:17	ToxicFrog	Is there a way to do that with an existing fn?
13:17	ToxicFrog	E.g. (defmethod my-multimethod :foo identity) rather than (defmethod my-multimethod :foo [x] (identity x))?
13:19	technomancy	not with defmethod; might be possible by falling back to java methods though
13:22	ToxicFrog	...also, if there are multiple handlers with the same dispatch value for a multimethod, is it specified which one takes precedence, absent the use of prefer-method?
13:22	ToxicFrog	Experimentation says "the most recently defined one", but I don't know if I can rely on this.
13:23	technomancy	if you need to rely on it, you should make it explicit with prefer-method I think
13:24	coventry`	I haven't yet been burned by mutable time objects. How does it end up happening? You use a library which has its mutating way with a date you pass it?
13:25	cbp	coventry`: I have to use .clone a lot and doto when doing stuff like swap!
13:26	coventry`	I guess that is the safe thing to do.
13:26	aaelony	For various reasons related to SQL fluency, I'm not using a DSL for SQL generation but rather have functions that emit SQL strings. Because its simple. I've also attached meta-data to each function that emits SQL, identifying which tables underlie the queries. The advantage of this is that I can now query the meta data to determine how many such functions use certain tables and how often. https://www.refheap.com/8
13:26	aaelony	5429 Curious what people think...
13:26	aaelony	https://www.refheap.com/85429
13:28	stompyj	Clojurists are mappers, Haskellians are packers. How fast does that to get to the top of HN?
13:32	l1x	:D
13:32	Raynes	aaelony: You nearly gave me a heart attack.
13:32	Raynes	I thought the paste counter had somehow reset and was overwriting pastes because you linked to paste 8.
13:33	Raynes	Don't do that to me, man.
13:33	l1x	has anybody ever implemented a Kafka consumer in Clojure?
13:33	Raynes	amalloy_ and I once implemented their file format in Clojure :D
13:34	Raynes	That was an exciting afternoon.
13:38	bchar	(reverse (str 9009)) returns (9 0 0 9) ?
13:39	aaelony	Raynes!! Sorry about that.. I blame my emacs setup ;))
13:39	bchar	shouldn't it be "9009"?
13:40	wink	Americans, how do you pronounce "zfs"? :)
13:40	cbp	it returns (\9 \0 \0 \9)
13:40	Raynes	bchar: It isn't returning a reversed string.
13:40	Raynes	'reverse' is a general function that works on anything that you can call seq on.
13:40	Raynes	As such, it returns a seq.
13:41	jhulten	wink: zee eff ess
13:41	squidz	zee efff es
13:41	cbp	,(clojure.string/reverse "9009")
13:41	clojurebot	"9009"
13:41	Raynes	&(clojure.string/reverse "abc")
13:41	lazybot	⇒ "cba"
13:41	Raynes	cbp: My lawn. Get off it.
13:41	Raynes	;P
13:41	cbp	:-(
13:41	bchar	thanks so much :) super new to clojure
13:41	wink	jhulten: squidz: so with a little softer zee than CFS? :P
13:41	bchar	trying out some euler problems
13:41	jhulten	zee vs see
13:41	wink	this zee/zed thing is so weird
13:42	wink	I see, thanks.
14:02	stuartsierra	ToxicFrog: If you redefine a defmethod it replaces the old method for that dispatch value.
14:04	ToxicFrog	stuartsierra: sweet.
14:04	ToxicFrog	Thank you.
14:16	ToxicFrog	If I have a macro that I want to emit multiple statements - say, a defmulti followed by a defmethod - how do I do that? Just wrap them in (do)?
14:18	llasram	ToxicFrog: Yes
14:18	llasram	ToxicFrog: There's actually special handling in the compiler for top-level `do`s, handling their direct sub-forms the same as independent top-level forms
14:20	amalloy	ToxicFrog: make sure you emit wrapping them in a do. ie, it's `(do ~x ~y ~z), not (do x y z)
14:21	amalloy	llasram: there's actually a few places in core that emit (let [] ...) instead of (do ...) in order for the special handling of 'do to not apply
14:22	llasram	amalloy: Interesting. I'll have to find those -- hadn't explicitly noticed them on any of my expeditions through core
14:22	amalloy	specifically in core_deftype.clj. i don't really understand why they need to do this
14:22	llasram	hmm
14:22	Bronsa	amalloy: IIRC it has to do with the classloader
14:23	amalloy	ohhhh, because each top-level form gets its own DynamicClassLoader?
14:23	Bronsa	yeah
14:23	hiredman	right, and classes can get gc'ed before they are used
14:24	amalloy	oh man, that sounds familiar. and HORRIBLE
14:24	hiredman	right, I think there was a ml thread about it
14:25	Bronsa	https://github.com/clojure/clojure/commit/2ac93197e356af3c826ca895b5a538ad08c5715a relevant commit
14:25	Bronsa	the downside is that this fix causes AOT and JIT deftypes to interact badly.
14:26	martinklepsch	when benchmarking w/ visualVM clgv advised me to run a jar — do I need to run the uberjar?
14:26	technomancy	it's best I don't hear this
14:28	cbp	augghh. I keep getting "Uncaught TypeError: Cannot read property 'parentNode' of undefined". This is like impossible to debug
14:31	coventry`	cbp: It means you've got a nil somewhere.
14:32	cbp	=(
14:32	justin_smith	and you are trying to get the "parentNode" property of nil, HTH
14:33	coventry`	cbp: Perhaps you searched for a DOM element, and came up empty?
14:37	ToxicFrog	llasram, amalloy: awesome. Thanks.
14:40	cbp	I am making a datepicker and this error only occurs on august 2015...
14:41	cbp	this makes a lot of sense
14:41	amalloy	cbp: that's when the world ends
14:41	amalloy	obviously
14:43	cbp	i shall baptize it nostradamus
14:44	ToxicFrog	Is there something wrong with using hyphens in namespace names?
14:45	cbp	no
14:45	ToxicFrog	Hmm.
14:46	ToxicFrog	It looks like it's looking for "spellcast/game/collect_players.clj" rather than "spellcast/game/collect-players.clj"
14:46	coventry`	ToxicFrog: Only that any java references to them, including via the filenames, have to use underscores instead.
14:46	ToxicFrog	So maybe using hyphens is ok but you need to replace them with underscores in the filename?
14:46	technomancy	vote for http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1297
14:46	ToxicFrog	coventry`: does (require) count as a "java reference"?
14:46	cbp	ToxicFrog: yes
14:46	technomancy	ToxicFrog: yeah, it is a really stupid quirk of the compiler
14:46	ToxicFrog	Because that's what's blowing up here
14:47	coventry`	ToxicFrog: If you use dashes in place of underscores in the filenames, require breaks in exactly that way.
14:48	ToxicFrog	That is exactly what I'm doing.
14:48	ToxicFrog	Blargh.
15:04	technomancy	does haskell have juxt?
15:06	amalloy	technomancy: yes
15:06	technomancy	what's it called?
15:06	amalloy	it's like an arrow thingy. i forget if it's &&& or ***
15:08	amalloy	&&& is what i think of as juxt
15:08	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: && in this context
15:09	technomancy	cool, thanks
15:09	amalloy	yeah. http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/7.6.3/html/libraries/base/Control-Arrow.html
15:09	amalloy	it's really hard to search for &&&. every search engine in the world hates it
15:10	cbp	Oh I get it. It's react trying to get a component that no longer exists. So apparently I'm using Om in a way I'm not supposed to. My table thing goes from 5 rows (<tr> components) to 4 and it goes boom.
15:16	Raynes	amalloy: symbolhound
15:19	amalloy	yes, that's what i eventually did. it doesn't index hoogle, apparently
15:20	stompyj	hooli?
15:22	coventry`	Stepping into a multimethod in clojurescript using the chrome debugger is sort of educational the first time, but extremely cumbersome.
15:23	Morgawr	mmm.. if I start a lein repl I get an nREPL server too, how can I avoid that?
15:24	Morgawr	also does nrepl only listen to the local interface?
15:26	Morgawr	ah ok nvm, read it from the lein help repl prompt, solved my problem ^^
15:47	timothyw	Anyone using https://ws.apache.org/wss4j/ ?
15:47	timothyw	using leiningen: :repositories [["apache.public" "http://repository.apache.org/content/groups/public/"]]
15:47	timothyw	I get an org.sonatype.aether.transfer.ArtifactNotFoundException
15:47	timothyw	"Could not find artifact org.apache.wss4j:wss4j:jar:2.0.0 in central (http://repo1.maven.org/maven2/)"
15:48	timothyw	… weird, because the artifact is there
15:51	llasram	timothyw: I'm failing to recall the fix, but the problem seems to be that that is a POM-only artifact, not a JAR artifact
15:51	sdegutis	I am about to use lazy sequences and functional programming to solve a problem I would have solved with imperative mutable state in the past!
15:51	timothyw	@llasram. Oh, so I just can't use wss4j?
15:52	timothyw	@llasram, or perhaps I have to download, install locally?
15:52	llasram	timothyw: You should be able to use it, and shouldn't need to install anything locally
15:53	timothyw	@llasram. This dependency doesn't work … [org.apache.wss4j/wss4j "2.0.0"]
15:53	amalloy	what is there to use, in wss4j? it doesn't have any code, and its pom has no dependencies
15:54	timothyw	@amalloy … let me verify
15:56	sdegutis	But it is hard to think in functional programming.
15:56	sdegutis	Maybe I can use &(reduce) here.
15:56	amalloy	it's just a collection of maven plugins, which presumably do some nonsense to add code from some other artifacts
15:57	llasram	timothyw: Assuming the dep actually does something other than maven plugin funtimes, check out the resolution here: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/issues/1451
15:57	sdegutis	Or &&(reduce).
15:57	sdegutis	What's that command for ClojureBot?
15:57	timothyw	@amalloy you're right. I've been trying every mvn repo I can get my hands on.
15:58	ToxicFrog	,(doc reduce)
15:58	clojurebot	"([f coll] [f val coll]); f should be a function of 2 arguments. If val is not supplied, returns the result of applying f to the first 2 items in coll, then applying f to that result and the 3rd item, etc. If coll contains no items, f must accept no arguments as well, and reduce returns the result of calling f with no arguments. If coll has only 1 item, it is returned and f is not called. If val i...
15:58	timothyw	@amalloy Can't seem to find a good one
15:58	ToxicFrog	That wasn't as useful as I thought.
15:58	ToxicFrog	And I don't remember how to do it inline.
15:58	amalloy	timothyw: i think maven central is the right one. it's hard to imagine that it's "the wrong repo"
15:58	amalloy	it's just that the code in wss4j isn't what you want
15:59	gfredericks	does lein have any flags for inspecting the eval-in-project code?
15:59	timothyw	@amalloy ???
15:59	lazybot	timothyw: Oh, absolutely.
15:59	timothyw	@amalloy. Ultimately, I just want to some SOAP XML Signing
15:59	amalloy	timothyw: as i said a moment ago, org.apache.wss4j/wss4j does not contain any code. it is just a collection of maven plugins
16:00	amalloy	you are not using maven, so those plugins will do you no good
16:00	timothyw	:/
16:00	amalloy	if you were using maven, they would probably download all sorts of clever code
16:00	timothyw	right, i see
16:00	mimieux_
16:00	timothyw	in the background, I was trying to find an actual jar
16:01	amalloy	you can probably find the code it would add to your project in a maven repo, under some other artifact id(s)
16:01	amalloy	but i have no special knowledge of wss4j, so i can't help you find the code it depends on
16:02	timothyw	ok, I'll dig around a bit more
16:04	technomancy	gfredericks: you can set :eval-in :pprint
16:04	gfredericks	technomancy: oh sweets
16:05	technomancy	disclaimer: that might only exist on master?
16:07	timothyw	@llasram, thanks for that link. that answers some questions.
16:08	timothyw	but still need to figure out to how to pull that code into my project
16:10	gfredericks	technomancy: it exists on what I'm running
16:11	gfredericks	should :injections work well with :main? I.e., should they get run before the main namespace is loaded when doing e.g. `lein repl`?
16:20	kenrestivo	squidz: it's like a minute, depending on device. there's more info here http://clojure-android.info/
16:20	technomancy	gfredericks: couldn't tell you off the top of my head which happens first
16:20	technomancy	tias
16:22	gfredericks	technomancy: I've tried it on two different machines and gotten different results :P
16:22	gfredericks	oh wait
16:22	technomancy	o_O
16:22	gfredericks	maybe I know why that happened
16:23	gfredericks	okay I think the normal thing is for the main to get loaded first
16:23	gfredericks	so I was asking because I don't see why that would be a good idea?
16:23	gfredericks	I thought the idea with injections was to be able to do sneaky shit before anything else happened
16:24	technomancy	yeah that is surprising. loading :main is specific to the repl task, and :injections is general
16:24	gfredericks	sounds like a legit issue then?
16:25	technomancy	oh man...
16:25	technomancy	no, I remember now. init-ns is kinda craaaaaazy
16:25	technomancy	because it needs to apply to every single repl connection for a given server
16:25	technomancy	so it's implemented as a middleware
16:26	technomancy	init-ns being a thing that :main normalizes into
16:29	gfredericks	oh right because you want every new client to startup there
16:39	sdegutis	I'm sure this can be done in a clever way.
16:40	sdegutis	I have a function which is paginated, but not by number, only by the last ID it returns. I think I can use lazy infinite sequences to get all the relevant results and return the concatenated results.
16:41	sdegutis	Because it uses the last ID, I think I have to use reduce, and then take-while in order to stop at the final result.
16:41	sdegutis	This will be fun!
16:42	sdegutis	Oh wait, maybe I can use iterate!
16:45	gfredericks	I've done that before with just manual lazy-seq usage
16:46	gfredericks	(fn next-page [...] (lazy-seq (let [p (get-page)] (concat records-from-p (next-page p)))))
16:46	gfredericks	with a (when ...) somewhere in there to get the end
16:48	hiredman	what you want is unfold, which I am sure someone has a clojure implementation of somewhere
16:48	justin_smith	sdegutis: reduce and take-while? reduce is eager, but there is reduced to short circuit with
16:49	hiredman	http://cvs.haskell.org/Hugs/pages/libraries/base/Data-List.html#9
16:49	gfredericks	technomancy: I still don't understand why nrepl middleware would get run before the :injections code?
16:50	gfredericks	or is it that eval-in-project does the original require, while the middleware just switches namespaces?
16:50	gfredericks	so still plausible for :injections to run first?
16:50	technomancy	hm; actually good point
16:50	technomancy	you're not using :eval-in :nrepl, are you?
16:50	gfredericks	no
16:52	technomancy	oh, init-ns is actually handled in the server setup too, not just when clients connect
16:52	technomancy	;; TODO: remove in favour of :injections in the :repl profile
16:52	technomancy	OH HEY GOOD IDEA
16:53	llasram	I frequently wish my past and present selves would communicate a bit better
16:53	technomancy	yeah, this is not particularly well thought-out; there's no reason it should be its own thing
16:53	gfredericks	if it were an injection then this matter would be sensitive to what order the profiles get merged in?
16:54	technomancy	yeah, but you could use ^:replace to override it
16:54	technomancy	huh
16:54	technomancy	I wonder if there should be a ^:reverse that you could attach as well
16:55	gfredericks	do we need to steal cemerick's concept of middlewares requiring and expecting each other?
16:55	sdegutis	gfredericks: that sounds like a good middleground
16:55	sdegutis	justin_smith: ah hah
16:55	hiredman	obviously you should provide a map of names to injections, and a map of names to depedencies, and then do a topo sort
16:55	hiredman	gfredericks: damn
16:56	technomancy	gfredericks: I would just skip the init-ns stuff and use injections exclusively for now
16:56	gfredericks	hiredman: require/expect suggests the dependencies are bidirectional :)
16:56	technomancy	what is it you're injecting anyway?
16:56	gfredericks	this is repl util setup via adding shit to clojure.core
16:56	technomancy	~guards
16:56	clojurebot	SEIZE HIM!
16:57	gfredericks	so ideally it gets done before your ns gets loaded
16:57	gfredericks	hey man it's not me it's for a friend
16:57	gfredericks	I do this myself but I handle it by re-requiring in my repl init, I think
16:57	technomancy	http://p.hagelb.org/nope.gif
16:57	gfredericks	it occurred to me this morning I could have convenient repl access to stuff by putting it in a namespaced called -
16:58	technomancy	if your init ns needs something to function... it should be declared
16:58	gfredericks	these are repl utilities, I just want them for myself
16:58	gfredericks	in whatever ns I happen to be in
16:58	technomancy	hm; then why does the order matter?
16:58	coventry`	gfredericks: I use one-character namespaces like that all the time, but have you seen vinayasa?
16:59	gfredericks	well if the mechanism for convenience is that the vars are placed in clojure.core so they can be naked everywhere
16:59	gfredericks	coventry`: that's actually what my "friend" is using
16:59	gfredericks	then they won't be magically available if a namespace gets loaded before the vars get setup in clojure.core
17:00	gfredericks	you have to do another (require '[clojure.core :refer :all])
17:00	technomancy	but if they're convenience repl defns then they shouldn't be refered by code on disk anyway
17:00	martinklepsch	how can I run a profile accross multiple namespaces using timbre? is that possible at all?
17:00	technomancy	that's kind of exactly what you want to avoid
17:00	gfredericks	technomancy: they aren't
17:00	technomancy	if they're used by files on disk then they need to be declared
17:00	gfredericks	they aren't
17:01	technomancy	hm; I don't get it then
17:01	gfredericks	I want to say `lein repl` and have my happy sugar convenience function immediately available
17:01	gfredericks	as well as whenever I switch namespaces for any reason
17:02	technomancy	so why can't you use :injections?
17:02	gfredericks	the resulting order is
17:02	gfredericks	(do (load 'my.main.namespace) (magically-add-convenience-fn-to-clojure.core))
17:03	gfredericks	so my.main.namespace does not see the new core functions
17:03	technomancy	so just add a refer call to your magic function
17:03	technomancy	hm; unless ns isn't bound or something?
17:03	gfredericks	yeah I think that is prollably the answer
17:03	technomancy	anyway, what you really want is nrepl-discover though
17:03	technomancy	because doing this in clojure is kind of crazy
17:03	gfredericks	I do?
17:04	technomancy	aboccarily
17:04	technomancy	*absoccarily
17:04	technomancy	I mean, you want nrepl-discover, except finished and working
17:05	gfredericks	so here's another thing
17:05	gfredericks	if my.main.namespace requires the rest of my project
17:05	technomancy	I suspect you don't actually want functions you can call in the repl; it's just easier to implement than Emacs commands which invoke Clojure functions in your project's JVM
17:05	technomancy	but what if I told you ... it's actually not that hard
17:05	gfredericks	then all of the dependent namespaces have this same problem
17:05	technomancy	oh yeah, that kinda chews. (all-ns) is a thing though
17:05	technomancy	but don't do that
17:05	gfredericks	lollerskates
17:05	technomancy	do this: https://github.com/technomancy/nrepl-discover
17:06	technomancy	or at least think about it
17:06	gfredericks	my "friend" is not using emacs
17:06	technomancy	perfect; we need someone to write a vim frontend.
17:07	sdegutis	Ahh, I had my hopes that I could do this without recursion, but alas, it may be the simplest of all ways.
17:07	sdegutis	*always
17:14	martinklepsch	anyone here some experience profiling with timbre? is it possible to profile accross multiple namespaces?
17:21	Frozenlock	yogthos: Is there a way to specify https instead of http in cljs-ajax?
17:22	kenrestivo	i'm trying to port a library from cljs to clj, but it relies on ISequable, IHash, IEquiv, etc, being protocols not interfaces. any words of wisdom (other than "don't do that")?
17:26	amalloy	how does it depend on that, kenrestivo? by extending protocols it doesn't own to types it doesn't own?
17:27	kenrestivo	right, it redefines -hash, -seq, -equiv so that deep in other code, when those get called, the overriden versions get called
17:27	kenrestivo	the more i look at this, the more i feel like this might not be worth the effort.
17:28	Frozenlock	yogthos: Nvm, I was using an Iframe with simple http inside an https document and it was messing everything.
17:29	yogthos	Frozenlock: ah gotcha
17:30	yogthos	Frozenlock: also Julian Birch has taken over the project recently as I haven't had time to work on it
17:31	Frozenlock	yogthos: I see, I'll direct questions to him then. Thanks for the library btw, quite useful! :-p
17:32	amalloy	kenrestivo: that sounds like a pretty unpleasant thing to do: it's really recommended to own either the protocol or the type, when extending one to the other
17:32	yogthos	Frozenlock: glad to hear it, an Julian can take most of the credit for the current state of it :)
17:33	amalloy	with interfaces you have to own the type; protocols let you own either of them. they also let you own neither, but using that is kinda bad form
17:33	kenrestivo	yep, they're extend-type'ing on core interfaces/protocols. i can see why, but i can also see why it's problematic too
17:37	sdegutis	Here is my solution: https://gist.github.com/sdegutis/e18a06dbdaca9546dc9f
17:42	amalloy	seems okay, sdegutis. i wouldn't hard-code the call to 'last; it can be part of id-fn. really it would be best for f to return both a seq of things and a next-id
17:42	amalloy	i guess at that point it's basically unfold, as hiredman suggested
17:42	sdegutis	I had not seen this suggestion.
17:43	sdegutis	I see it now.
17:44	sdegutis	Thanks.
17:46	amalloy	eg, if you use https://github.com/flatland/useful/blob/develop/src/flatland/useful/seq.clj#L128, then you can write (apply concat (unfold (fn [last-id] (when-let [results (seq (...look it up...)))] [results (find-id (last results))])) initial-seed))
17:46	sdegutis	Interesting.
17:46	sdegutis	Why is that not part of Clojure.Core?
17:47	amalloy	i dunno, no good reason that i know of
17:49	sdegutis	You have a Jira account, that should be sufficient to file an issue to add it.
17:49	pyrtsa	sdegutis: I don't think it reads well but you can use mapcat + iterate for this case.
17:50	sdegutis	pyrtsa: I'm not sure how that would work, since each iteration requires the last element of the previous iteration but each iteration must be concatenated to one another in full and the result returned.
17:50	pyrtsa	(mapcat first (iterate (fn [[_ x]] (let [xs (f x)] [xs (last xs)])) nil))
17:51	sdegutis	Ah yes, indeed!
17:51	sdegutis	I had not thought of that technique. Although I did use it yesterday or the day before, so I should have thought of it.
17:51	pyrtsa	I've used it with reductions before.
17:52	pyrtsa	Many times, actually. But just realised it works with iterate too.
17:52	sdegutis	I've used it with reduce actually.
17:52	sdegutis	Thanks!
17:53	amalloy	pyrtsa: it's a cute trick, but when i use iterate or reductions like this (ie, using half the accumulator as an intermediate state, and the other half as a return value), it always ends up looking worse than just writing a recursive function with lazy-seq
17:53	pyrtsa	amalloy: Like I said, I don't think it reads well.
17:54	sdegutis	Also it's nice that nil (the else-clause of an if or if-not) can be used with concat, which makes this code very prerty.
17:57	pyrtsa	Yeah, looking at the flatland link above now, unfold would be a welcome addition.
18:00	aaelony	is there a guide to useful flatland?
18:00	jwm	(clojure.pprint/cl-format nil "~0f" (* (/ 7 15 ))) = 47.
18:00	jwm	I do a parse-int around that is that the best way of doing divison?
18:01	jwm	sorry I left out the 100 in there
18:01	jwm	(clojure.pprint/cl-format nil "~0f" (* (/ 7 15 ) 100)) = 47.
18:01	jwm	I am just getting percentage basically
18:06	amalloy	aaelony: http://flatland.org/useful/
18:06	amalloy	there's no "guide", because it's just a pile of unrelated functions. but this is an overview
18:07	amalloy	that doc is new as of yesterday (thanks Glenjamin!); i may regenerate it while removing the most useless stuff
18:08	aaelony	amalloy: looks great
18:08	Raynes	amalloy: I suddenly want to write a guide to useful that is themed as an adventure into an unexplored cave.
18:09	aaelony	raynes: yes yes yes
18:09	amalloy	Raynes: "you are likely to be eaten by a glue"?
18:09	Raynes	glue
18:09	Raynes	That was the best thing you've ever said.
18:10	aaelony	I often think I should be using useful, if I knew when I should be using it better
18:10	gtrak	does useful have rseq over a queue in there?
18:10	Raynes	amalloy: Man, I'm still not totally sure I get what glue does.
18:10	amalloy	gtrak: is that even possible?
18:10	gtrak	maybe not :-)
18:10	gtrak	i've only thought about it for a few minutes.
18:10	gfredericks	I had to pick a util lib at work and eventually chose prismatic/plumbing; I don't know if I could say why though
18:10	amalloy	it might be. i dunno
18:11	Raynes	amalloy: I was very pleased that you guys managed to create that abstraction though. It took me by surprise. I sure didn't see an obvious abstraction there!
18:11	aaelony	I like useful flatland especially for the double entendres
18:11	amalloy	&((juxt peek seq) (into clojure.lang.PersistentQueue/EMPTY [1 2 3]))
18:11	lazybot	⇒ [1 (1 2 3)]
18:11	Raynes	Glenjamin: Yo.
18:11	gtrak	clearly we need a PersistentDeque
18:12	amalloy	yeah, looks like peek goes in the same order as seq, so i don't think you can possibly rseq efficiently
18:13	jwm	anyone here use d3/c2?
18:13	jwm	just curious how well c2 is at doing what d3 does
18:14	aaelony	jwm: I would look at gorilla-repl that uses vega
18:14	numberten	i'm reading about gensym and I have a question. when binding a symbol to (gensym) in a let statement. doesn't the symbol you use to refer to the unique symbol suffer from the same problems you're trying to avoid?
18:14	gtrak	maybe I'm just using the wrong thing, been using queues for convenience in om tables, push on one side, pop off the end.
18:14	amalloy	i don't do much/any front-end stuff, so take this with a grain of salt, but i've heard c2 is underwhelming
18:14	numberten	that is making sure the symbol doesn't exist in some outter scope?
18:14	jwm	nah it even says on the github c2 is underwhelming
18:14	numberten	s/outter/outer
18:14	jwm	that is why I asked the question :)
18:15	jwm	yeah I should not be allowed to do frontend but apparently neither should most people
18:15	amalloy	numberten: no, because you'll be keeping that symbol inside the macroexpansion, rather than introducing it to the expanded code
18:15	aaelony	http://gorilla-repl.org/renderer.html and http://trifacta.github.io/vega/
18:15	amalloy	eg, consider (defmacro foo [] (let [x (gensym)] `(let [~x 1] (inc ~x))))
18:16	amalloy	you don't need to worry about x colliding, because it never appears in the expanded code
18:16	jwm	you know I think gorilla is exactly what I wanted but seems unrelated to my question
18:16	jwm	you answered my question without me asking it lol
18:16	jwm	thanks
18:16	aaelony	it's pretty stellar
18:16	jwm	yeah it looks sick
18:16	aaelony	kudos to the author
18:16	jwm	I was thinking of recreating it
18:16	numberten	amalloy: that makes sense
18:17	jwm	I think I even saw it before but did not pay any attention since it was one of 200 tabs
18:17	numberten	I was looking at this example over and over and just didn't see it, but that helps. thanks
18:17	aaelony	another cool viz project that could be great in clojure would be something like dc.js http://nickqizhu.github.io/dc.js/
18:18	aaelony	synchonicity of charts
18:18	aaelony	synchronicity
18:18	jwm	you know I am waiting on famo.us
18:18	jwm	pretty slick looking though they dont have any vector graphic stuff it seems like yet at least
18:35	l1x	when i am using a java lib that requires log4j and i place a log4j.properties into the resources folder but it still complains about missing log4j config what am i doing wrong?
18:36	l1x	i havent done a lein uberjar
18:36	l1x	i love this channel, so easy to get answers :D
18:37	amalloy	there's some funny stuff in useful i'd forgotten about. https://github.com/flatland/useful/blob/develop/src/flatland/useful/time.clj#L5 makes me laugh
18:38	noonian	l1x: i'm definitely not an expert on logging, but i think you also need to add log4j to your dependencies so that it is on the classpath
18:39	l1x	noonian: nah it was just lein uberjar because the log4j.* files get compiled into the jar so when you invoke the jar it has access to it
18:39	noonian	ah, cool then
18:39	l1x	i just forgot to rebuild the app with the log4j.prop added to the resources/
20:00	Glenjamin	Raynes: sup?
20:01	Raynes	Glenjamin: Your script for generating documentation and handling all the branch juggling. It's beautiful. I need more of it in my life. We need to turn this into a generalized leiningen plugin, man.
20:01	Glenjamin	that somewhat defeats the point of the linear bash script :p
20:01	Glenjamin	although technomancy's plans for lein change / lein release are similar
20:01	Raynes	I'd rather have a reusable leiningen plugin than a linear bash script.
20:02	Raynes	I am, of course, not telling you that you have to write it :p
20:02	Glenjamin	heh
20:02	Raynes	I'll probably do it over a weekend.
20:02	Glenjamin	you'd need the java git implementation
20:02	Glenjamin	but aside from that it's fairly simple
20:02	Raynes	Why would you need a thing like that
20:02	Glenjamin	in theory you could generate the html in memory and write straight to the branch that way
20:02	Raynes	I'd just shell out to git.
20:02	Glenjamin	because if you shell out from lein, you might as well have just used the bash file
20:02	Raynes	The point is that it'd be a leiningen plugin, not to avoid using git.
20:03	Glenjamin	what's the gain?
20:03	Raynes	Um, not having 40 copies of the same file across repositories with minor changes.
20:03	Glenjamin	i guess portability between projects
20:03	Glenjamin	yeah
20:03	Glenjamin	the logic is taken from https://github.com/tschaub/grunt-gh-pages/blob/master/tasks/gh-pages.js
20:04	Glenjamin	which is why i'm hesitant to plug it back into a task runner :)
20:05	Glenjamin	this is a similar lein concept - http://librelist.com/browser//leiningen/2014/5/1/release-task/
20:07	technomancy	yeah, you should totally help me write the release task
20:07	Glenjamin	i am considering it
20:08	Glenjamin	especially if rewrite-clj is considered a reasonable dependency
20:08	technomancy	erhm
20:08	technomancy	is that the one that pulls in potemkin?
20:08	Glenjamin	no idea, i just same the name
20:08	Glenjamin	and some api usage
20:08	Glenjamin	*saw the name
20:08	technomancy	yeah, I want to use sjacket from lein
20:08	Raynes	Dependencies in general are a bad idea for leiningen, unfortunately.
20:08	Raynes	They make it incredibly difficult to package the darn thing for distros.
20:09	technomancy	plus we already have a lib that does that pulled in
20:09	technomancy	but for 2.4.0 we don't need full project.clj rewrite capability, just version changes
20:09	Glenjamin	ah, i see
20:10	Glenjamin	sjacket seems sensible,
20:10	Glenjamin	enlive for clojure, i guess
20:10	technomancy	sjacket does the job; it's just not documented
20:10	Glenjamin	doing version numbers seems pretty doable
20:11	waynr	technomancy: http://www.meetup.com/clojerks/events/182784762/
20:11	waynr	getting some folks together on thursday to take a swing at some of the lein release work
20:12	technomancy	waynr: oh very cool
20:13	Glenjamin	Raynes: the other option is a standalone tool that just runs those commands in a dir
20:14	Glenjamin	and then you just need enough info in project.clj for it to know (a) what command to generate docs, and (b) what directory is the docs
20:14	Glenjamin	i am unsure if that's any better
20:15	Raynes	Glenjamin: I can write a Python program to do this and have it look for 'DOC_CMD' and 'DOC_DIR' environment variables, then you can add an alias to leiningen and pretend you have an actual plugin.
20:15	Raynes	I too am unclear on how this is better though :P
20:15	Raynes	You don't even save startup time, since you still have to invoke lein.
20:15	Raynes	:P
20:16	Glenjamin	there is a tension between being able to use this on multiple projects easily, and adding complexity to a 15 line bash script :)
20:16	Raynes	I really think you're overthinking this.
20:16	Raynes	It'd probably boil down to a 15 line Clojure file, the difference is that it'd be a jar on clojars. :P
20:16	Glenjamin	i suspect my preconception of a lein plugin is it's a bunch of work
20:16	Glenjamin	but yeah, i take your point
20:17	Raynes	That's fair.
20:17	Raynes	I've written 24352436 leiningen plugins, so I basically spit out a plugin template when I slap the keyboard.
20:17	Glenjamin	it depends how portable you're tempted to make it
20:17	Glenjamin	eg, the java interop equiv of `mktemp`, vs shelling out for that bit too
20:18	technomancy	It's Just a Function™
20:18	Glenjamin	oh neat, that's refreshing
20:18	Raynes	Glenjamin: fs has temporary directory handling implemented in Clojure :3
20:18	Glenjamin	i always assume a java api i've never used will need at least two factories
20:18	Raynes	And I have conch, which makes shelling out approximately as seamless as your bash script :D
20:19	Glenjamin	sounds like a winner then
20:19	Raynes	Glenjamin: I'll just write the darn thing and we'll consult.
20:19	Glenjamin	works for me :)
20:19	Raynes	Could have written it while I stood here arguing with you about whether or not we should write it. :P
20:19	Glenjamin	heh
20:20	Glenjamin	as i say, i stole the workflow from a convoluted grunt plugin, so it's hardly my idea in the first place
20:20	Raynes	I'm just happy you gave me a good reason to write some Clojure again.
20:20	Raynes	It has been like months, man.
20:20	Raynes	MONTHS
20:20	Glenjamin	:(
20:21	Glenjamin	i've been tinkering with a side project, might even become something actually used at work
20:21	Glenjamin	but probably not, as no-one knows any jvm, let alone clojure - myself included really
20:21	aaelony	Raynes: are you using R now?
20:33	devn	yeesh. long day.
20:34	dbasch	,(System/currentTimeMillis)
20:34	clojurebot	1400027375555
21:16	Ucker	MOTHER F{}CKERS!!! 71541 MOTHER F{}CKERS!!! MOTHER F{}CKERS!!! MOTHER F{}CKERS!!! MOTHER F{}CKERS!!! MOTHER F{}CKERS!!! MOTHER F{}CKERS!!! MOTHER F{}CKERS!!!
21:22	waynr	wut
21:23	l1x	dbasch: you seem like a seasoned clojure guy, have you ever used any queueing system in clojure?
21:24	l1x	i am still thinking about how should i consume a queue
21:25	dbasch	l1x: what kind of queue? you’re talking about a queue data structure within clojure, or an external message queue?
21:26	l1x	the later, external message q, like Kafka
21:31	dbasch	l1x: I haven’t used Kafka (or any message queue) from clojure. That’s a pretty generic question though, do you have any specific design requirements in mind?
21:31	l1x	it is indeed, i don't have anything in mind other than i have a stream of incoming messages and i need to process them.
21:32	l1x	luckily everything is immutable and idempotent so i dont care about duplicates
21:33	dbasch	l1x: have you used core.async?
21:33	l1x	i was just thinking what is the best way to wrap the other java libraries (those obviously throw exceptions) and have a rock solid design that does not care if the server it is talking to is going down, also it would be good to have some sort of performance control over the consuming speed
21:33	l1x	i haven't used it yet
21:35	dbasch	l1x: what you ask is really what kafka does, it’s mostly about how you configure and what resources you allocate to it
21:35	l1x	yeah i guess
21:35	l1x	the only problem is that the kafka clj library has some issues
21:36	l1x	but i guess i could write a thin wrapper around the original kafka libraries
21:38	dbasch	l1x: I’d use the original client, I’m guessing the person who wrote the clojure wrapper did that and then open-sourced it because why not
21:38	l1x	yes he did, but that library is meh, lots of magic for nothing
21:39	dbasch	l1x: that’s not uncommon in clojure because it’s so easy to write libraries
21:41	Raynes	$mail aaelony Python, mostly.
21:41	lazybot	Message saved.
21:41	Raynes	lazybot: plz
21:41	Raynes	lazybot: kill
21:41	lazybot	KILL IT WITH FIRE!
21:41	Raynes	Not sure who was lagging there.
21:41	dbasch	They mostly come at night. Mostly.
21:45	l1x	dbasch: good point
22:45	amalloy	i had a thought about Object/clone. the natural implementation of that for an immutable class like clojure.lang.PersistentVector is just identity; is that wrong? is there any code that could legitimately be broken by this implementation?
22:47	amalloy	i see that the stuff in clojure.lang actually doesn't implement clone at all
22:50	dbasch	amalloy: why would you want to implement clone for immutable structures?
22:50	dbasch	,(.clone “cloneme”)
22:50	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: “cloneme” in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
22:54	amalloy	dbasch: because some other bonehead api i want to use clones its inputs or whatever
22:55	dbasch	amalloy: I don’t remember encountering an api that demanded the object passed in to be Cloneable
22:56	dbasch	but I suppose in that case, I’d just wrap it in a CloneableWhatever and feed it to the beast
22:57	dbasch	most likely an api like that would take MyFantasticApiObject which is probably Cloneable
22:57	dbasch	I hate Java
22:58	amalloy	is Cloneable the silliest interface in the jdk? i wonder
23:01	dbasch	amalloy: depending on how you define silly, my vote would go to things like BeanContextServiceRevokedListener
23:02	amalloy	i dunno, presumably that's just IFn with a long name
23:07	dbasch	this one is awesome: TransformerFactoryConfigurationError
23:08	dbasch	it’s a class though
23:09	quizdr	I'm finding it a bit strange that the dependency noted at https://github.com/ninjudd/clojure-protobuf is 0.7.1 when clojars shows the latest as only 0.6.2
23:10	rhg135	hmm, someone should compile a list of api fails
23:11	dbasch	quizdr: I see a 0.8.1 https://clojars.org/org.flatland/protobuf
23:12	quizdr	dbasch oh the github page instead links to https://clojars.org/protobuf
23:12	amalloy	i like http://java.metagno.me/, dbasch
23:12	amalloy	if we're gonna make fun of classnames
23:13	dbasch	amalloy: that site gets me about half the time
23:13	amalloy	more than half, for me
23:14	dbasch	AbstractAnnotationValueVisitor7 <- wtf
23:14	dbasch	“A skeletal visitor for annotation values with default behavior appropriate for the RELEASE_7 source version.”
23:15	dbasch	quizdr: ask amalloy to fix it :)
23:16	amalloy	i don't know much about the lein-protobuf stuff. i'm thrilled it lives under ninjudd instead of flatland now, so nobody asks me to fix it
23:18	quizdr	I've never worked with protobufs before but now I'm being asked to connect to them so am having to learn
23:19	TEttinger	oh man, protobufs are not bad... I used them in C# and the lib there is top-notch
23:19	TEttinger	(of course I used edn to serialize in clojure, but still)
23:19	TEttinger	(they can't all be lisp)
23:19	quizdr	i was given an existing proto as a spec, but its not clear to me if I can just read it straight from Clojure using the ninjudd wrapper or I am supposed to first compile (recompile?) it with lein protobuf?
23:21	dbasch	amalloy: here’s a really silly one: UnsolicitedNotificationListener
23:22	amalloy	hahaha
23:22	amalloy	quizdr: you must compile the protobufs. the .proto text files are useless at runtime
23:25	TEttinger	the example in the Readme has the .proto file compiled and then... loaded, I guess, with (protodef Example$Person)
23:25	TEttinger	where did Example$ come from?
23:25	amalloy	from the filename, maybe? i forget
23:26	TEttinger	filename is resources/proto/person.proto
23:26	TEttinger	so I'm fairly confused
23:26	jacortinas	What's the current state of the art for clojure web dev? I actually just gave pedestal a try from their docs and it seems that it is in huge flux.
23:26	jacortinas	Is there a more stable ring + other stuff stack, that people are really happy with?
23:26	TEttinger	luminus maybe?
23:27	TEttinger	(sp?)
23:27	dbasch	jacortinas: client side, I’m happy with Om
23:27	quizdr	When I compile the proto I was given, lein protobuf gives me an error, stating that Expected top-level statement (e.g. "message"). This suggests the proto is malformed? However, this is a production proto already used by other parties so maybe Lein cannot compile it
23:27	jacortinas	dbasch: I want to do om on the client, but I'm just trying to figure out a good stack for a normal web app.
23:27	TEttinger	http://www.luminusweb.net/ but yeah I've heard nothing but good things about Om
23:28	dbasch	jacortinas: I use Compojure, but I don’t need to do anything particularly complex
23:28	amalloy	TEttinger: i would not be at all surprised to find that the readme is out of date
23:28	TEttinger	heh I couldn't find any docs
23:28	amalloy	if you look in test/ and resources/, you'll see that is not the state of the files
23:28	TEttinger	:-(
23:38	quizdr	Ah, got it to work. the proto had some HTML at the top of it, yikes; from an automated export script on a web page somewhere, probably.
23:38	quizdr	How do protobuff-formatted data typically get sent across the web? Is it like a specific TCP port that you listen to for these protobuf packets?
23:43	zeroem	So, I'm having an issue with clojars.
23:43	zeroem	When I try to `lein deploy`, everything appears "ok" except for pushing out the pom
23:43	zeroem	it comes back with an `Access denied`
23:44	zeroem	currently, the only version I have pushed out is a snapshot build of the actual version I'm trying to push
23:54	zeroem	nvm. Looks like everything got uploaded (somehow?) but the clojars UI showing it as available
23:54	zeroem	:F
23:55	amalloy	quizdr: no port. it's more like base64 or gzip than like http
23:57	quizdr	amalloy but the job of the proto is not to describe where to get the data, but rather the format of the data when you do get it, right?
23:57	amalloy	right
23:58	quizdr	this proto i was given, they said, "here is the functional proto, and it also acts as a spec." well, it does indeed have many comments scattered throughout but none that refer to where this data actually comes from.