#clojure – 2014-04-18

2014-04-18

00:16	base698	Anyone know how to get this to work: (-> [old-position move] (partial apply interleave)) setting (def f (partial apply interleave)) works.
00:17	Frozenlock	,(macroexpand-1 '(-> [old-position move] (partial apply interleave)))
00:18	clojurebot	(partial [old-position move] apply interleave)
00:18	base698	well that's helpful
00:18	Frozenlock	base698: I suppose that's not what you wanted :-p
00:18	base698	nope
00:19	Frozenlock	(macroexpand-1 '(->> [old-position move] (apply interleave)))
00:19	Frozenlock	,(macroexpand-1 '(->> [old-position move] (apply interleave)))
00:19	clojurebot	(apply interleave [old-position move])
00:20	base698	hmm.
00:22	base698	success!
00:28	base698	Frozenlock: thanks. first time I've used ->> in the wild.
00:29	Frozenlock	base698: No problem.
00:29	Frozenlock	However I'm not sure this increase readability. I suppose there's some other stuff going in the ->> macro?
00:29	base698	yeah, it's super long
00:30	base698	not sure if that pasted
00:31	base698	there was a map and partition and some other stuff
01:24	serjeem	Sort of specific question, but: I'm trying to play with libgdx in a repl. I've got everything running just fine, but when I try to exit the window, it crashes the repl, complaining that the "subprocess failed".
01:25	serjeem	Is there a way to keep the repl running even when the subprocess dies?
02:07	hiredman	serjeem: likely libgdx is kill the clojure/jvm process when the window closes, there should be an option in libgdx to disable that
02:08	hiredman	serjeem: lein runs two jvms, one is actually running lein, the second is your projects, if that message is from lein it is because the project jvm (where your code is being run) is dying
02:42	danielszmulewicz	Are forward declarations broken with the latest clojurescript? Doesn't seem to work here.
03:16	martintrojer	,(= false)
03:16	clojurebot	true
03:16	martintrojer	great
03:17	Frozenlock	(= nil false)
03:17	Frozenlock	,(= nil false)
03:17	clojurebot	false
03:17	martintrojer	,(every? (constantly false) [])
03:17	clojurebot	true
03:17	martintrojer	perfect
03:25	dbasch	,(= = - = =)
03:25	clojurebot	false
03:25	martintrojer	,(every? (constantly false) [false])
03:25	clojurebot	false
03:26	dbasch	,(every? (constantly false) [true])
03:26	clojurebot	false
03:27	martintrojer	,(every? (constantly false) [])
03:27	clojurebot	true
03:27	dbasch	,(every? every? [])
03:27	clojurebot	true
03:28	mpenet	,(and)
03:28	clojurebot	true
03:37	Frozenlock	Is it an emacs function that 'prettify' the requires into equal length vectors?
03:45	owl-v-	how do i use mutable list?
03:46	dbasch	owl-v-: what do you mean mutable list? what do you want to do?
03:47	owl-v-	update list and use it as stack
03:47	dbasch	owl-v-: but why do you need to mutate it, as opposed to appending to an immutable one?
03:50	owl-v-	is there reason to use immutable list?
03:50	dbasch	owl-v-: normally you need a reason to use mutable structures
03:50	dbasch	the default is immutability
03:51	dbasch	,(pop [1 2 3 4 5])
03:51	clojurebot	[1 2 3 4]
03:52	owl-v-	im using a list as an argument and iterate through and create new list then use this new list as argument of new function
03:52	yedi	what are the best clojure codebases to read for learning some of the better clojure development strategies
03:53	owl-v-	,(pop [1 2 3 4 5])
03:53	clojurebot	[1 2 3 4]
03:53	owl-v-	,(push 6 [1 2 3 4 5])
03:53	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: push in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
03:53	owl-v-	,(push [1 2 3 4 5] 6 )
03:53	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: push in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
03:53	dbasch	‘(conj (pop [1 2 3 4 5]) 6)
03:53	dbasch	,(conj (pop [1 2 3 4 5]) 6)
03:53	clojurebot	[1 2 3 4 6]
03:54	Jaood	,(peek [3 5 7 9])
03:54	clojurebot	9
03:54	owl-v-	,(conj [list 1 2 3 4 5] 6 )
03:54	clojurebot	[#<clojure.lang.PersistentList$1@67c93d> 1 2 3 4 ...]
03:54	owl-v-	,(conj [1 2 3 4 5] 6 )
03:54	clojurebot	[1 2 3 4 5 ...]
03:54	owl-v-	what's that '...'?
03:55	dbasch	ellipsis
03:55	owl-v-	,(conj [1 2 3 ] 4 )
03:55	clojurebot	[1 2 3 4]
03:55	dbasch	clojurebot truncates results
03:55	owl-v-	and fifo?
03:57	owl-v-	,(reverse (conj [1] 2))
03:57	clojurebot	(2 1)
03:57	owl-v-	why do i get list when reverse?
03:57	Jaood	(first (conj [] 9))
03:57	Jaood	,(first (conj [] 9))
03:57	clojurebot	9
03:58	owl-v-	,(reverse [1 2 3])
03:58	clojurebot	(3 2 1)
03:58	Jaood	,(first (into [] [1 2 3]))
03:58	clojurebot	1
03:58	owl-v-	,(first (conj [1 2] 3))
03:58	clojurebot	1
03:58	owl-v-	,(ast (conj [1 2] 3))
03:58	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: ast in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
03:58	owl-v-	,(last (conj [1 2] 3))
03:58	clojurebot	3
03:59	dbasch	,(type [])
03:59	clojurebot	clojure.lang.PersistentVector
03:59	dbasch	,(type (reverse []))
03:59	clojurebot	clojure.lang.PersistentList$EmptyList
03:59	owl-v-	list out of vector?
03:59	owl-v-	,(conj (1 2))
03:59	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Long cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn>
03:59	dbasch	,(into [] (reverse [1 2 3])
04:00	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
04:00	owl-v-	,(conj (1 2) 3)
04:00	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Long cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn>
04:00	owl-v-	,(cons (1 2) 3)
04:00	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Long cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn>
04:00	owl-v-	,(cons [1 2] 3)
04:00	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: java.lang.Long>
04:00	owl-v-	,(conj (reverse (conj [1 2] 3)) 4)
04:00	clojurebot	(4 3 2 1)
04:00	dbasch	,(into [] (reverse [1 2 3]))
04:00	clojurebot	[3 2 1]
04:01	owl-v-	reverse of vector should return reversed vector :(
04:02	dbasch	no
04:02	dbasch	“reverse: Returns a seq of the items in coll in reverse order. Not lazy.”
04:03	dbasch	,(rest [1 2 3 4])
04:03	clojurebot	(2 3 4)
04:03	dottedmag	owl-v-: You're mixing it up with Haskell :)
04:08	owl-v-	not logical... god da@# it!
04:11	dbasch	owl-v-: a vector is not a seq. reverse returns a seq
04:12	dbasch	it’s good to know why and when to use a vector, and it’s not just because typing square brackets is convenient :)
04:20	owl-v-	so, i'm using two vectors in this function. and i have errors on line 12 and 4: https://www.refheap.com/77370
04:20	owl-v-	v and vv
04:27	dbasch	you’re calling your function with a vector of vectors, so you’re trying to decrement a vector
04:28	owl-v-	decrement a vector?
04:28	owl-v-	when v is [[]] , item is []
04:29	owl-v-	(first item) is first element of item which is just a number 99 in the first case.
04:29	dbasch	print n and m before line 12 and you’ll see
04:29	owl-v-	so n == 99
04:30	owl-v-	omg!!!!!!
04:32	owl-v-	why item is not iterated element of v?
04:32	owl-v-	when looped?
04:34	owl-v-	because it is not for loop?
04:34	dbasch	v is a vector of vectors
04:34	dbasch	[[99 99]]
04:34	dbasch	the first element of that is [99 99]
04:34	owl-v-	yes. that's what i want
04:34	dbasch	it’s also the last element, of course
04:34	sm0ke	can core.typed be used to enforce function argument/return types?
04:34	owl-v-	but item==[[99 99 ]]
04:35	sm0ke	so for e.g. what if i declare `inc` as [Num -> String], would core.typed throw exception?
04:35	dbasch	yes, item starts as v
04:36	owl-v-	i guess (loop [item v] ...) this simply initialize value item=v which is not what i want.
04:55	ambrosebs	sm0ke: not currently
04:56	owl-v-	,(let [v []] (let [n 3] (conj v 3) )
04:56	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
04:56	owl-v-	,(let [v []] (let [n 3] (conj v 3) ))
04:56	clojurebot	[3]
04:56	ambrosebs	sm0ke: working on generating casts from types
04:56	ambrosebs	sm0ke: but there's always going to be a core of "trusted" annotations.
04:56	owl-v-	,(let [v []] (let [n 3] ((conj v 2) (conj v 3)) ))
04:56	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Key must be integer>
04:57	owl-v-	illegal?
04:58	TEttinger	,(let [v []] (let [n 3] (do (conj v 2) (conj v 3)) ))
04:58	clojurebot	[3]
04:59	owl-v-	-.-
05:00	owl-v-	what happened to (conj v 2)?
05:02	owl-v-	,(let [v []] (let [n 3] (do (conj v 2) (conj v 3)) ))
05:02	clojurebot	[3]
05:02	owl-v-	,(let [v []] (let [n 3] (do (conj v 2) (do (conj v 3))) ))
05:02	clojurebot	[3]
05:04	ucb	,(doc conj)
05:04	clojurebot	"([coll x] [coll x & xs]); conj[oin]. Returns a new collection with the xs 'added'. (conj nil item) returns (item). The 'addition' may happen at different 'places' depending on the concrete type."
05:04	ucb	owl-v-: conj returns a new collection
05:05	akazlou	interesting found that get/assoc/assoc-in work nice with nil map passed, is it by design?
05:06	katratxo	akazlou: "nil keys and values are ok" http://clojure.org/data_structures#Data%20Structures-Maps%20%28IPersistentMap%29
05:08	owl-v-	ucb; how do i update one at a time?
05:08	ucb	owl-v-: you don't? What are you trying to do?
05:12	owl-v-	add two vectors to a vector
05:12	owl-v-	[] -> [[1 2]] -> [[1 2] [1 3]]
05:14	Frozenlock	,(conj [] [1 2] [1 3])
05:14	clojurebot	[[1 2] [1 3]]
05:14	akazlou	katraxo: thank you for the link, but what I meants, that (assoc nil {:lang "Clojure"}) or (get nil :lang) is ok, so map passing into assoc/get/assoc-in can be nil, and no NullPointerException,
05:14	akazlou	for example in my sample ring app:
05:14	akazlou	(-> (response-util/file-response file {:root "public"})
05:14	akazlou	(response-util/content-type content-type))
05:14	akazlou	if file doesn't exist file-response returns nil, but then content-type return {:headers {"Content-Type" content-type}} which is not right ring response
05:14	akazlou	just found it interesting
05:22	kras	what's wrong with this function?
05:22	kras	(defn flt [lis acc]
05:22	kras	(if (not (seq? (first lis)))
05:22	kras	(do (conj acc (first lis)) (recur (rest lis) acc))
05:22	kras	(recur (first lis) acc)))
05:23	kras	it just hangs when I eval (flt '(1 2 (3 4)) ())
05:24	ivan	kras: conj doesn't mutate acc
05:25	ivan	it returns a new value that you threw away
05:26	kras	oops !!!
05:27	kras	lets say I throw away the result
05:28	kras	it still doesn't explain why it should hang?
05:28	owl-v-	Frozenlock: thanks
05:28	kras	might be missing something else here
05:28	clgv	owl-v-: please do read some introductory material on clojure, you'll be learning much faster.
05:28	kras	here's the easier to read code https://www.refheap.com/77372
05:29	clgv	kras: good move. always post more than one-line code in a gist:)
05:29	kras	clgv: yeah realized it after seeing the code I posted
05:30	ivan	,(seq? (first '(1 2)))
05:30	clojurebot	false
05:31	clgv	kras: you know that you always have to pass on the "modified" object. your (conj acc (first lis)) does not have any effect on future recursive invocations. and you are missing a base case where the recursion stops
05:31	clgv	kras: what exectly do you want to do?
05:33	kras	clgv: thanks for the hint
05:33	kras	I think I undertsood the problem
05:33	kras	I am basically trying to flatten a given nested list
05:33	kras	let me try for some more time
05:33	beamso	,(doc flatten)
05:33	clojurebot	"([x]); Takes any nested combination of sequential things (lists, vectors, etc.) and returns their contents as a single, flat sequence. (flatten nil) returns an empty sequence."
05:34	clgv	beamso: I think it is a learning exercise ;)
05:34	beamso	oh
05:34	kras	yep
05:36	owl-v-	why is it harder to think in clojure/lisp than think in python?
05:36	owl-v-	or c or c++
05:36	llasram	Lack of experience
05:36	owl-v-	-.-
05:36	clgv	owl-v-: you are probably struggling with imperative programming vs functional programming
05:36	beamso	for me it's a) lazy evaluation and b) functions that return something vs functions that return nothing
05:37	clgv	owl-v-: that's why I suggested to you several times already to read introductory material on clojure - this will speed up your learning process
05:37	beamso	e.g. doall vs dorun
05:38	clgv	owl-v-: get one of the books and do the reading + experimenting cycle ^^
05:39	owl-v-	simple breath first tree search is not fun in clojure :(
05:39	llasram	And why do you say that?
05:40	clgv	owl-v-: why is that? you can directly translate the recursive function from c/c++/java to clojure. but naturally you might suffer a stackoverflow as you would in c/c++/java ;)
05:44	kras	this is what I came up with: https://www.refheap.com/77374
05:45	kras	ofcourse since I am throwing away the conj result it returns an empty seq now
05:45	clgv	kras: still the same error with the "conj" I told you before
05:45	clgv	kras: do you know "cond"?
05:45	kras	like a case statement?
05:46	clgv	kras: it is a compact form to write those nested "if" statements (nested in the else case)
05:47	kras	okay, let me check that
05:49	owl-v-	,(for [i (1 2)] (print i))
05:49	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Long cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn>
05:49	owl-v-	,(for [i (1 2)] (println i))
05:49	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Long cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn>
05:50	clgv	,(for [i '(1 2)] (println i))
05:50	clojurebot	(1\n2\nnil nil)
05:50	owl-v-	,(for [i (1 2)] (prn i))
05:50	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Long cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn>
05:50	owl-v-	?
05:50	clgv	read please^^
05:50	kras	owl-v-: please read the docs
05:50	beamso	(1 2) is calling the function 1 with an argument of 2. '(1 2) is the list of 1 and 2.
05:50	clgv	,(1 2)
05:50	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Long cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn>
05:50	clgv	^^
05:50	owl-v-	docs didn't help me at all
05:51	kras	(1 2) clojure expects 1 to be callable
05:51	kras	or special form
05:51	owl-v-	,(for [i [1 2]] (prn i))
05:51	clojurebot	(1\n2\nnil nil)
05:51	owl-v-	,(for [i [1 2]] (println i))
05:51	clojurebot	(1\n2\nnil nil)
05:51	kras	if you want clojure to stop doing that then you have to quote it
05:51	kras	,(doc quote)
05:51	clojurebot	Huh?
05:51	clgv	$doc quote
05:52	clgv	&1
05:52	lazybot	⇒ 1
05:52	clgv	&(doc quote)
05:52	lazybot	⇒ "Special: quote; Yields the unevaluated form."
05:52	owl-v-	java runtime error :(
05:53	clgv	owl-v-: you'll have many more of those disappointing experiences if you dont try to learn clojure in a structured way, i.e. reading something that explains you the big picture and the mandatory basics
05:54	kras	owl-v-: clojure is a lisp, if that helps :-)
05:55	beamso	i recommend http://www.clojurebook.com/ . for me it was better than the pragprog books on clojure.
05:56	kras	one think which still confuses me a hell lot is recur
05:56	kras	used to recursion with function names
05:56	clgv	kras: just imagine it is the function name of your current function^^
05:56	kras	any good article which explains why we need a special form recur instead of just using traditional recursion
05:56	clgv	kras: provided you have no loop surrounding it ;)
05:57	clgv	kras: because the JVM is not able to do Tail Call Optimization
05:57	daitya	owl-v-: section 1.1 of chapter 1 will help you get started thinking in lisp http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-4.html#%_toc_start
05:58	owl-v-	,(let [v []] (for [item [1 2 3]] (conj v item)))
05:58	clojurebot	([1] [2] [3])
05:59	clgv	kras: you tell the Clojure compiler to use tail call optimization by using recur. through the use of recur the compiler can also determine whether it really occurs in a tail call position
05:59	owl-v-	...list
06:00	owl-v-	,(let [v []] (for [item [1 2 3]] (conj v item)) v)
06:00	clojurebot	[]
06:00	clgv	owl-v-: well you are wrong in interpreting that code as imparative code :P
06:00	kras	so if I implement a traditional recursion it will be translated to pure JVM recursion which doesn't support Tail resursion optimization?
06:01	clgv	kras: right. that does only matter if your recursion works on large data structures. so sometimes a traditional recursion is totally suitable if you know that the number of recursive calls is bounded by a small number
06:02	kras	ok makes sense now
06:02	owl-v-	,(let [v []] (do (for [item [1 2 3]] (conj v item) v))
06:02	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
06:02	kras	clgv: thank you
06:03	Frozenlock	I've always found the lack of tail recursion optimization in Clojure... unfortunate.
06:03	owl-v-	,(let [v []] (do (for [item [1 2 3]] (conj v item)) v))
06:03	clojurebot	[]
06:03	clgv	Frozenlock: huh? you get tco by using recur explicitely.
06:03	clgv	Frozenlock: you'd want it implicitly if applicable?
06:04	Frozenlock	Yes
06:04	Frozenlock	Wouldn't you?
06:04	clgv	wasnt there some discussion regarding that design choice?
06:04	owl-v-	,(let [v []] (do (for [item [1 2 3]] (conj v item)) (println v) ))
06:04	clojurebot	[]\n
06:04	clgv	well coming from C++/Java I never had TCO in the first place ;)
06:05	llasram	This may be the Stockholm syndrome talking, but given that general-case TCO isn't possible on the JVM, I'd rather have an explicit construct for it than have it just not TCO when it couldn't
06:05	clgv	llasram: yeah I also like the check telling me that I misplaced the recur^^
06:05	owl-v-	,(let [v []] (for [item [1 2 3]] (conj v item) (print v) ))
06:05	clojurebot	#<CompilerException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (3) passed to: core/for, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
06:06	clgv	owl-v-: could you please use your own local repl?
06:06	llasram	Or just /query clojurebot
06:06	kras	or you can use http://tryclj.com/
06:06	kras	please stop using this as a REPL
06:06	owl-v-	cool! thanks
06:06	llasram	Many options!
06:08	llasram	owl-v-: But FYI, that last bit of code you tried can't do what you want w/ immutable vectors
06:08	llasram	Not to mention `for` as generating a lazy sequence
06:11	owl-v-	:( but it works when (conj [] 1 2 3)
06:11	owl-v-	or (conj v 1) (conj v 2) (conj v 3)
06:12	owl-v-	i mean (conj (conj ( conj v 1) 2) 3)
06:12	llasram	owl-v-: Yes, but those are operating on the return value of conj in each case
06:13	llasram	You're doing the same thing as ##(for [i (range 1 4)] (conj [] i))
06:13	lazybot	⇒ ([1] [2] [3])
06:13	llasram	Because `v` doesn't change -- it stays bound to `[]`
06:13	owl-v-	T.T
06:13	owl-v-	my python way of thinking...
06:14	owl-v-	i miss mutable list...
06:15	llasram	And my experience is that once I learned to use immutable data structures, I miss those in every language lacking them :-)
06:15	llasram	You have complete access to mutable datastructures in Clojure
06:16	clgv	llasram: cant wait for the version of the above code using java.util.ArrayList ^^
06:16	llasram	,(let [v (java.util.ArrayList.)] (doseq [i (range 3)] (.add v i)) v)
06:16	clojurebot	[0 1 2]
06:16	anna_	why clojure error reporting sucks ?
06:16	anna_	:(}
06:16	clgv	llasram: damn, you should have used `for` ;) :P
06:17	llasram	clgv: Let's not be crazy now :-p
06:17	llasram	One problem at a time
06:18	clgv	anna_: mostly due to the JVM since the only possibility for runtime errors are exceptions. but certainly there could be improvements trying to translate those exceptions into better user friendly error messages
06:18	daitya	owl-v-: if you want tutorial-style learning, many options to learn from: http://www.purelyfunctional.tv/ ... http://www.braveclojure.com/ ... http://aphyr.com/tags/Clojure-from-the-ground-up
06:19	clgv	the one from aphyr looks nice
06:19	daitya	and the best way is to try stuff in your local repl... it puts things in context (as opposed to clojurebot)
06:19	llasram	clgv: I don't think that's true... (re: errors) My reasons:
06:19	llasram	anna_: Because (a) rhickey isn't interested; (b) with some familiarity, most of the error messages do tell you what went wrong; and (c) because it's honestly difficult given the language design
06:20	clgv	llasram: well my answer would be in (c) I guess^^
06:21	owl-v-	i was doing http://projecteuler.net
06:21	daitya	llasram: i doubt if (a) is even within the answer space
06:21	clgv	owl-v-: better switch to 4clojure.com and start with the basic ones
06:21	llasram	daitya: Really? I think it's definitely a reason the Clojure error messages aren't better :-)
06:22	llasram	rhickey is completely fine with Clojure core macros (like defn) just throwing whatever exception bad input causes them to generate
06:22	clgv	llasram: provided those execptions carry enough information the error messages could be improved in the repl frontends
06:22	llasram	I'm skeptical
06:22	clgv	llasram: probably the compiler should throw ExceptionInfo objects with enough information
06:23	llasram	Maybe, but arbitrary code getting arbitrarily incorrect data -- there's only so much you can do
06:23	llasram	You'd really need every macro to carefully check what it expects vs what it recieves
06:25	clgv	right
06:25	clgv	but do you do that in your own code 100% of the time?
06:26	llasram	Of course not. And I'm not even saying that I think clojure.core should
06:26	llasram	I'm just saying I think it's what you need to do to get significantly better error messages, and that that kind of philosophical direction would need to come from the top
06:28	daitya	llasram: :) ... I feel there must be a good reason out there somewhere... it's completely counterintuitive that a carefully-designed language would deliberately not provide clean, useful feedback to its user
06:29	llasram	Well, I mean, it does, if you've got a certain mental model and level of familiarity. That's (b), and it's kind of a chicken-egg + self-selection thing
06:29	clgv	daitya: requiring a certain amount of effort would be one reason if the developers are not convinced the effort is worth it
06:30	llasram	If you stick around Clojure, you learn enough of the implementation to interpret the error messages. Once you've learned enough of the implementation, the error messages frequently tell you exactly what went wrong
06:30	llasram	,(1)
06:30	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Long cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn>
06:30	durm	guys, help me please!
06:30	durm	I want to do fs walk and store file to another place
06:30	llasram	Clojure expected an IFn (a function object) and found a Long
06:30	durm	i have a function
06:31	durm	(defn walk [dirpath pattern]
06:31	durm	(doall (filter #(re-matches pattern (.getName %))
06:31	durm	(file-seq (file dirpath)))))
06:31	llasram	An error like "non-function used in call position" would be newbie friendly, but tell you less about exactly what went wrong
06:31	durm	which can walk over fs
06:31	durm	and return file handlers
06:32	llasram	durm: In the future, please use a paste service like refheap.com for code longer than 1-liners
06:32	durm	oh sorry
06:32	durm	ok
06:32	durm	and in another expression i want to store the file
06:33	daitya	llasram: i'm fairly new to clojure, and that has been my experience... these days i get surprised that--more often than not--i barely glance at the error and know where I made a mistake... it took some effort, but now i have a certain level of comfort
06:33	durm	like (map #(println (__create media %)) (walk import-dir #".*"))
06:33	durm	but it doesnt work
06:33	durm	I think because of lazyness
06:34	owl-v-	why this is true? (= (list :a :b :c) (vec '(:a :b :c)))
06:34	Frozenlock	I remember coming to clojure without knowing any java at all. I wanted to throw my computer at the ground everytime I saw one of those horrible error messages.
06:34	daitya	owl-v-: hint... sequence abstraction
06:34	durm	how can I do it?
06:35	llasram	durm: Um, well `dorun` will force a lazy sequence and discard the results, if you just want to force it for side-effects
06:35	owl-v-	but this is java runtime error: (= (list a b c) (vector a b c))
06:35	llasram	durm: You might also consider using `doseq` instead of `map` if you just want to run some code for side-effects
06:36	daitya	owl-v-: what is the difference between 'a' and ':a'?
06:36	llasram	daitya: Oooh, the Socratic method. Fancy
06:36	owl-v-	just an element?
06:36	owl-v-	just elements?
06:36	durm	llasram: thanks, I will try it
06:37	owl-v-	http://www.4clojure.com/problem/6
06:38	daitya	owl-v-: do you have a running repl?
06:38	owl-v-	yes
06:38	owl-v-	with :a works but with 'a' does not
06:38	daitya	correct, but why?
06:39	daitya	llasram: oh don't tease ... any resemblance is purely coincidental
06:40	daitya	owl-v-: try this... first feed (def a "foo") to your repl, then feed 'a' to it
06:41	daitya	without the quotes
06:43	Guest27066	lol funny name daitya
06:43	owl-v-	daitya: "foo"
06:44	daitya	owl-v-: aha! now type in :a
06:44	daitya	Guest27066: http://vedabase.net/d/daitya ... a subtle pun on my real name
06:44	akazlou	:require vs :use in ns definition, which one is usually used?
06:44	owl-v-	daitya; :a
06:44	jonasen	akazlou: :require
06:44	Frozenlock	akazlou: :require
06:45	clgv	daitya: lol. you started a tutorial "clojure on hands and knees" just now ;)
06:45	Frozenlock	:use is evil
06:45	akazlou	or preference/difference between them?
06:45	akazlou	why :use is evil?
06:45	Guest27066	:use is daitya
06:45	Guest27066	:D
06:46	clgv	akazlou: in (ns) only use ":require". in repl (use ...) is often pretty handy
06:46	daitya	owl-v-: before you bound a to something--that is, "foo"--it didn't exist
06:46	jonasen	I wouldn't say that :use is evil. It's just that :require can do everything (and more) that :use can do. So :use is not really needed
06:46	daitya	Guest27066: :D
06:46	clgv	akazlou: usually you use something like (:require [clojure.string :as str]) and then (str/join ", " (range 10))
06:46	Frozenlock	akazlou: Personally I hate it because it brings everything into the namespace. Want to know from which library a function is coming just by looking at the code? Good luck...
06:47	jonasen	Frozenlock: you can (:use ... :only ..)
06:47	Frozenlock	Sure, but do you really? :-p
06:47	kras	finally ended up with this: https://www.refheap.com/77391
06:47	jonasen	Frozenlock: no
06:48	owl-v-	daitya; a still shows "foo" but :a shows :a
06:48	clgv	jonasen: but why when (:require ... :refer ...) is equivallent?
06:48	jonasen	but I do use (:require [foo.bar :refer ..])
06:48	akazlou	ok, so with use you can't assign name to the import, but :as require will allow you to do it, or nice
06:48	daitya	owl-v-: and that is the correct behaviour
06:48	jonasen	clgv: exactly! :require can do al that :use can.. so :use is not needed
06:48	daitya	owl-v-: http://clojure.org/data_structures#toc8
06:49	akazlou	thanks
06:49	daitya	:a is a keyword... it evaluates to itself
06:50	daitya	whereas a is a symbol that means nothing till you bind it to something
06:50	clgv	,'a
06:50	clojurebot	a
06:50	clgv	,(class 'a)
06:50	clojurebot	clojure.lang.Symbol
06:51	daitya	,(class :a)
06:51	clojurebot	clojure.lang.Keyword
06:51	clgv	,(class (read-string "a"))
06:51	clojurebot	clojure.lang.Symbol
06:51	daitya	more correctly, a will not mean anything to _you_ unless you bind it to something
06:53	daitya	,a
06:53	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: a in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
06:54	owl-v-	(def :a "boo") -> "java.lang.RuntimeException: First argument to def must be a Symbol" because :a is not a symbol
06:55	clgv	,(def a 42)
06:55	clojurebot	#'sandbox/a
06:55	clgv	,a
06:55	clojurebot	42
06:56	daitya	owl-v-: yes, because :a already is--crudely speaking--permanently bound to a value... itself
06:57	owl-v-	but when do we use :keyword? in dictionary?
06:58	daitya	yes, that's the most common use case; keywords are used as keys in a map
06:58	daitya	,{:a :a}
06:58	clojurebot	{:a :a}
06:58	daitya	but this is a perfectly valid map ^
06:59	clgv	,({:a :a} {:a :a} {:a :a})
06:59	clojurebot	{:a :a}
07:00	daitya	clgv: ooh... why did that happen? let me go find out
07:00	daitya	(serious ^)
07:00	clgv	daitya: :D
07:00	clgv	,({:a :a} {:b :b} {:c :c})
07:00	clojurebot	{:c :c}
07:03	owl-v-	returns last dic?
07:04	owl-v-	i think that's correct behavior :)
07:04	owl-v-	i tried on http://tryclj.com/
07:05	jonasen	,({:a 1 :b 2} :a :not-found)
07:05	clojurebot	1
07:05	jonasen	,({:a 1 :b 2} :c :not-found)
07:05	clojurebot	:not-found
07:06	daitya	clgv: D'oh ... default value >_<
07:06	clgv	daitya: yeah you could just write a "get" in front to have it pretty obvious ;)
07:07	daitya	clgv: well, careless of me, because i knew about the optional default
07:08	daitya	thanks for the knock on the head :)
07:09	owl-v-	what does ( ) do on ({:a 1} :a :whatever) ?
07:10	daitya	try it in your repl
07:10	clgv	,((#{{}} {}) {} {})
07:10	clojurebot	{}
07:11	Guest27066	how stupid is the idea to have a line-reader in clojure which collapses all the ending paranthesis? so intead of something like )]})]}))))) we can just write somthing like ...)
07:11	Guest27066	:P
07:12	clgv	,((#{{}} {}) (#{{}} {}) (#{{}} {}))
07:12	clojurebot	{}
07:13	Guest27066	ignoring that it will just blow off all the existing tools and ides for clojure, its a nice idea
07:13	daitya	owl-v-: seriously, you will do well to read this: http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-10.html#%_sec_1.1
07:14	clgv	Guest27066: I guess it wont work in general, since there scenarios when you need to look ahead to be able to determine what closing paranthesis you need and especially which are closed later
07:15	Guest27066	hmm i am not sure if its entirly correct
07:15	Guest27066	every ...) will look ahead for the first unmatched (
07:15	Guest27066	thats it
07:16	clgv	no. you need to know all closing ones that are ahead..
07:16	Guest27066	yes
07:16	clgv	and I guess for that you'd need to read until the end of the document
07:16	Guest27066	beginnging you mean?
07:16	clgv	no
07:17	clgv	you need to know which paranthesis to insert instead of ...) you know the possible ones from the opening counter parts but some of them might be closed later on so you have to exclude those
07:18	clgv	and you cant tell if there is still a closing one before you readched the end of the file
07:18	clgv	-d
07:21	owl-v-	does (set (list)) make array-map?
07:21	clgv	no, it creates a set
07:22	clgv	,(class (set (list)))
07:22	clojurebot	clojure.lang.PersistentHashSet
07:22	clgv	,(class #{})
07:22	clojurebot	clojure.lang.PersistentHashSet
07:26	Guest27066	is there something like take-while but still extract the last failing element
07:27	clgv	Guest27066: you probably need something that would be called "take-until" then... refering to the looping constructs...
07:27	Guest27066	,(take-while #(< % 10) (range 20))
07:27	clojurebot	(0 1 2 3 4 ...)
07:28	Guest27066	,(take-while #(< % 5) (range 20))
07:28	clojurebot	(0 1 2 3 4)
07:28	clgv	Guest27066: with numbers it's easy to patch but you probably have something different
07:28	Guest27066	i can use 6 here, but thats not the point
07:28	Guest27066	clgv: right
07:28	clgv	,(source take-while)
07:28	clojurebot	Source not found\n
07:28	clgv	$source take-while
07:29	lazybot	take-while is http://is.gd/6y8gU0
07:29	Guest27066	i can always write a reduce and reduced
07:29	clgv	Guest27066: write take-until base on take-while. you just have to move the "when"
07:29	Guest27066	but thats 1.5+
07:34	clgv	Guest27066: https://www.refheap.com/77393
07:35	Guest27066	nice
07:35	Guest27066	(inc clgv)
07:36	lazybot	⇒ 16
07:37	Guest27066	hurmm
07:37	Guest27066	hey! take until?
07:37	Guest27066	oh ok
07:37	clgv	corresponding to the difference between while loop and repeat-until loop
07:39	clgv	oh humm concerning that the sematic is wrong. the predicate needs to be inverse for that naming^^
07:40	Guest27066	may be it should be named take-unless
07:41	Guest27066	take-unless-and-until
07:41	Guest27066	weird
07:42	owl-v-	why ({:a 10, :b 20, :c 30} :b) == (:b {:a 10, :b 20, :c 30}) ?
07:42	clgv	Guest27066: ok there are two variants in the gist now ;)
07:42	clgv	(take-until #{6} (range)) ; => (0 1 2 3 4 5 6)
07:43	clgv	(take-while+1 #(< % 6) (range)) ; => (0 1 2 3 4 5 6)
07:44	clgv	owl-v-: because keywords act as functions
07:44	clgv	owl-v-: you'd know that if you read anything about clojure at all.. :/
07:44	Guest27066	i will go with take-until
07:44	Guest27066	makes sense
07:46	daitya	clgv: +1 / owl-v- please do read the learning material available, otherwise you'll hit really unnecessary roadblocks, like you are doing now... for example, http://www.braveclojure.com/ and aphyr.com/tags/Clojure-from-the-ground-up
07:47	owl-v-	i read "Maps store key-value pairs. Both maps and keywords can be used as lookup functions." and couldn't understand
07:49	martinklepsch	anyone having used Schema here?
07:50	martinklepsch	Is there a way to require a key to be i.e. a string?
07:50	agarman	@martinklepsch: yeah, both ole Scheme and Racket
07:50	martinklepsch	agarman, actually talking about prismatic/schema here :P
07:54	martinklepsch	[(s/one s/Str "s") s/Str] — does it forme
08:06	Guest27066	anyone using fireplace facing problem of reloading record definitions?
08:06	Guest27066	re-definitions*
08:06	Guest27066	i guess it must be a clojure problem in general
08:14	martinklepsch	hey
08:24	gfredericks	Guest27066: yeah that can be tricky; I think every time you reload you get a new class on the jvm; old instances have the old method definitions
08:24	gfredericks	even weirder if you reload protocols that the records implement
08:25	Guest27066	yep, i end up killing the repl and restarting
08:26	martinklepsch	(zf/xml1-> xml-zipper :a :b zf/text) — how could I write this so that I can supply :a :b as list?
08:26	gfredericks	Guest27066: I can usually stay on top of things by making sure to reload protocols, then records, then restart stuff (e.g. w/ stuartsierra/component)
08:27	martinklepsch	seems like something where you'd use apply but I'm not sure how since there is another mandatory thing at the end
08:27	Guest27066	hurm i find it very constraining
08:34	gfredericks	martinklepsch: you could work something out with reduce for sure
08:34	gfredericks	Guest27066: what are you using records for?
08:35	Guest27066	gfredericks: just some abstraction which user can hold on to
08:35	gfredericks	Guest27066: when I use records I tend to minimize the amount of code inside the methods so it doesn't change as often
08:35	Guest27066	yep i noticed that
08:35	Guest27066	but i feels like a cheat
08:36	Guest27066	it*
08:36	agarman	, (#(apply + 1 (concat % [5])) [2 3 4])
08:36	clojurebot	15
08:36	Guest27066	reloading function which records use works seamlessly nonethless
08:37	Guest27066	hurm may be i can follow that more strictly
08:37	gfredericks	Guest27066: yeah; I've found that even when changing the implementations, I don't need to restart if I'm thorough about what gets reloaded
08:38	gfredericks	and it's usually obvious if I've screwed it up somehow
08:38	Guest27066	yeah changes are easy to track and reload
08:38	Guest27066	just canhe function and reload is what i usually do
08:39	Guest27066	change*
08:39	martinklepsch	gfredericks, any more pointers? kinda lost I guess...
08:41	gfredericks	martinklepsch: I'm not familiar with the xml stuff in particular, but I'd imagine (zf/xml1-> xml-zipper (as-> <> (reduce #(zf/xml1-> %1 %2) <> [:a :b])) zf/text)
08:41	gfredericks	there might be a more succinct version based on what zf/xml1-> does exactly
08:44	ryanbraganza	newbie question - how do I print a big number without the trailing N? e.g. user=> (println 1234123946812893467981236478921697384671823649612934678126389461278364912763461265216385123478213749712893478912378947)
08:44	ryanbraganza	1234123946812893467981236478921697384671823649612934678126389461278364912763461265216385123478213749712893478912378947N
08:44	martinklepsch	https://github.com/clojure/data.zip/blob/b165e0c9d4ccd83280ac0462a36718b216b0ed20/src/main/clojure/clojure/data/zip/xml.clj#L56
08:45	llasram	ryanbraganza: You `str` it first
08:45	martinklepsch	gfredericks ^ — will look into your suggestion, thx!
08:46	ryanbraganza	llasram: thanks!
08:52	martinklepsch	gfredericks, turns out I can just (zf/text (xml1-> .... ))
09:38	akazlou	hi, guys, having difficulties understanding the behavior of apply fn:
09:38	akazlou	(apply conj [1 2 3] 4) ;=> doesn't compile
09:38	akazlou	(apply conj [1 2 3] [4]) ;=> [1 2 3 4]
09:38	akazlou	although:
09:38	akazlou	(conj [1 2 3] [4]) ;=> [1 2 3 [4]]
09:38	akazlou	what is happening in the background when apply is called?
09:40	beamso	,(conj [1 2 3] 4)
09:40	clojurebot	[1 2 3 4]
09:40	beamso	,(apply conj [1 2 3] 4)
09:40	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: java.lang.Long>
09:41	agarman	,(apply conj [1 2 3] [4 5 6])
09:41	clojurebot	[1 2 3 4 5 ...]
09:41	agarman	,(doc apply)
09:41	clojurebot	"([f args] [f x args] [f x y args] [f x y z args] [f a b c d ...]); Applies fn f to the argument list formed by prepending intervening arguments to args."
09:41	BobSchack	,(apply conj [3] 3 1 3 4 4 [1 2 3])
09:41	clojurebot	[3 3 1 3 4 ...]
09:42	BobSchack	akazlou for apply it appears the last argument is expected to be a collection of arguements
09:42	agarman	ditto what BobSchack said
09:45	BobSchack	so you have (apply <your function> <arg1> <arg2> [<arg3> .. <argN>]) which is (<your function> <arg1> <arg2> <arg3> ... <argN>)
09:46	akazlou	what are the use cases when you need to use apply, instead of <your function> directly?
09:46	teslanick	Apply lets you hand a constructed list of arguments to a function, where you may not know what those arguments are ahead of time.
09:47	BobSchack	It's the same use case as *args in python
09:48	agarman	,(apply + (range 3 11 7/9))
09:48	clojurebot	682/9
09:48	agarman	,(doc +)
09:48	clojurebot	"([] [x] [x y] [x y & more]); Returns the sum of nums. (+) returns 0. Does not auto-promote longs, will throw on overflow. See also: +'"
09:49	teslanick	One where you might not know the arguments or the number of arguments ahead of time:
09:49	teslanick	,(apply + (take (rand-int 20) (repeatedly #(rand-int 10))))
09:49	clojurebot	6
09:49	agarman	for a fn like +, that's expecting a individual args, apply allows you to pass a sequence of args instead
09:50	teslanick	Sum a set of random integers between 0 and 10, between 0 and 20 members in size.
09:51	agarman	apply & reduce are similar
09:51	akazlou	ok, need to think about it, thank you guys
09:52	akazlou	reduce is a little bit different as I may say: reduce is (f (f (f (args)))
09:52	akazlou	when in apply f is called only once
09:53	akazlou	but, yes, they are similar
10:00	akazlou	in addition to apply question above:
10:00	akazlou	,(source apply)
10:00	clojurebot	Source not found\n
10:01	akazlou	(source apply)
10:01	akazlou	(defn apply
10:01	akazlou	"Applies fn f to the argument list formed by prepending intervening arguments to args."
10:01	akazlou	{:added "1.0"
10:01	akazlou	:static true}
10:01	akazlou	([^clojure.lang.IFn f args]
10:01	akazlou	(. f (applyTo (seq args))))
10:01	akazlou	([^clojure.lang.IFn f x args]
10:01	akazlou	(. f (applyTo (list* x args))))
10:01	akazlou	([^clojure.lang.IFn f x y args]
10:01	akazlou	(. f (applyTo (list* x y args))))
10:01	akazlou	([^clojure.lang.IFn f x y z args]
10:01	akazlou	(. f (applyTo (list* x y z args))))
10:01	akazlou	([^clojure.lang.IFn f a b c d & args]
10:02	akazlou	so (apply conj [1 2 3] [4]) ;=> (apply conj (list* [1 2 3] 4))
10:02	akazlou	,(list* [1 2 3] 4)
10:02	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: java.lang.Long>
10:02	akazlou	,(list* [1 2 3] [4])
10:02	clojurebot	([1 2 3] 4)
10:02	akazlou	and this result is then applied to conj
10:02	akazlou	which conj expects
10:04	akazlou	through conj.applyTo, (every fn is an instance of clojure.lang.IFn?)
10:04	dnolen_	akazlou: please don't paste into the channel, use a paste service
10:05	akazlou	sorry
10:06	teslanick	akazlou: Yes. Every function (and many "not functions") are IFns
10:06	teslanick	(e.g. keywords are IFns too)
10:06	agarman	and maps
10:06	agarman	and sets
10:07	teslanick	I always forget about that. I find (:foo {:foo "bar"}) easier to think about than the inverse.
10:07	teslanick	({:foo "bar"} :foo)
10:08	teslanick	,({:foo "bar"} :foo)
10:08	clojurebot	"bar"
10:09	teslanick	But applyTo takes a list of arguments:
10:09	teslanick	,(. conj (applyTo '([1 2 3] 4)))
10:09	clojurebot	[1 2 3 4]
10:12	akazlou	yes, this is what list* produces I guess
10:13	teslanick	,(doc list*)
10:13	clojurebot	"([args] [a args] [a b args] [a b c args] [a b c d & ...]); Creates a new list containing the items prepended to the rest, the last of which will be treated as a sequence."
10:25	btcNeverSleeps	ouch, my Emacs / erc session crashed... If anyone did answer about my "lein test" hanging on an assert failing, it would be great if you could paste the answer again ^ ^
10:45	gfredericks	teslanick: I think keywords-as-fns is useful for record-like maps while maps-as-fns is useful for homogeneous hash-map-like maps
10:45	akazlou	on clojure.test/is is there any convention which value in = comes first expected or actual:
10:45	akazlou	i.e. (is (= <expected> <actual>)) or (is (= <actual> <expected>)), I see the value having <expected> first
10:46	stuartsierra	(is (= <expected> <actual>)) is the norm but not enforced
10:46	teslanick	gfredericks: That's actually a really good point that I hadn't thought about. I rarely use maps as hash-map-like maps (to my own detriment; it's hard to shake my JS-provided worldview)
10:47	gfredericks	teslanick: I think it's the same use cases for using a hashmap at all in a statically typed language
10:47	gfredericks	in my experience it's usually in algorithmic contexts rather than data/logic contexts
10:48	akazlou	thanks stuartsierra
10:50	akazlou	and if keywords and maps are both function, and in simple cases can be used interchangeably to get the value from the map, again which way is more common: (:keyword {<map>}) or ({<map>} :keyword)?
10:52	teslanick	As gfredericks pointed out, if you're using your map as a record of keyword->value, it's ocmmon to do (:keyword {map of kw->value})
10:53	teslanick	But not all map keys need to be keywords. You could do { 'foo "at foo" }
10:54	teslanick	In which case, you would use the other form:
10:54	teslanick	,({ 'foo "AT FOO" } 'foo)
10:54	clojurebot	"AT FOO"
10:54	gfredericks	if you're writing code that you want to work with arbitrary maps and keys, the safest route is clojure.core/get
11:10	akazlou	yes, clojure.core/get is even necessary when you do (->) and keys are not keywords
11:10	akazlou	,(-> {:headers {"Content-Type" "text/html"}} :headers (get "Content-Type"))
11:10	clojurebot	"text/html"
11:13	bbloom	akazlou: that's a good spot for a get-in
11:13	bbloom	(get-in {:headers {"Content-Type" "text/html"}} [:headers "Content-Type"])
11:13	bbloom	,(get-in {:headers {"Content-Type" "text/html"}} [:headers "Content-Type"])
11:13	clojurebot	"text/html"
11:17	akazlou	cool :)
11:19	akazlou	still trying to remember that you can any symbol in clojure fn name, like ? instead of is-, and even < and > :), which seems pretty common for Clojure
11:20	seangrove	,(def : get)
11:20	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Invalid token: :>
11:20	seangrove	Sadly, lots of symbols you can't use (or at least start with), otherwise writing perl in clojure would be a lot easier
11:20	martinklepsch	anyone a clever suggestion for something easily accessible like a map with multiple keys for the same value?
11:21	martinklepsch	{15 [:subdoc-abstract :paragraph]
11:21	martinklepsch	16 [:subdoc-abstract :paragraph]
11:21	martinklepsch	40 [:abstract]
11:21	martinklepsch	41 [:abstract]}
11:22	seangrove	martinklepsch: Probably a fn to construct that
11:23	seangrove	(mk-hash-map [15 15] [:subdoc-abstract] [40 41] [:abstract] [[:nested :vector] 99] [:example])
11:24	martinklepsch	seangrove, yeah, probably just making a function that copies into the empty spots is simplest
11:27	mikerod	are there any good clj libs for working with Jar streams (input is my concern currently)? they are just annoying.
11:28	mikerod	clojure.java.io doesn't quote do it all for me; maybe I just don't know how to use it good enough :P
11:30	stuartsierra	mikerod: https://github.com/clojure/java.classpath may help a little
11:41	felher	Hey folks. Say I have an impure function that returns something I need, like `create-random-card-deck`, whats the easiest way to get a sequence of n times invoking that function? (doall (map (fn [f] (f)) (repeat n create-random-card-deck))) doesn't strike me as being overly convenient.
11:41	llasram	&(doc repeatedly)
11:41	lazybot	⇒ "([f] [n f]); Takes a function of no args, presumably with side effects, and returns an infinite (or length n if supplied) lazy sequence of calls to it"
11:41	mikerod	stuartsierra: thanks! I'll take a look. after reading this project description, I think it is useful for other things I've been looking at to. win-win
11:41	felher	llasram: perfect! Thanks!
11:49	TimMc	seangrove: "sadly", yes...
11:56	martinklepsch	(fun :that :takes :a :lot :of :arguments) how could I rewrite that so that it takes a list which supplies some of those arguments? like (fun % :more :arguments)
12:01	seangrove	martinklepsch: apply?
12:01	seangrove	(doc apply)
12:02	clojurebot	"([f args] [f x args] [f x y args] [f x y z args] [f a b c d ...]); Applies fn f to the argument list formed by prepending intervening arguments to args."
12:03	seangrove	(map (partial apply +) [[1 1] [2 2] [3 3]])
12:03	seangrove	,(map (partial apply +) [[1 1] [2 2] [3 3]])
12:03	clojurebot	(2 4 6)
12:07	rasmusto	,(apply vector 1 2 3 [4 5])
12:07	clojurebot	[1 2 3 4 5]
12:08	hfaafb	require_once("../../lib/WebServiceCore.class.php");
12:08	hfaafb	my bad!
12:09	hfaafb	how embarassing
12:09	hfaafb	<_<
12:09	rasmusto	~php
12:09	clojurebot	php is http://me.veekun.com/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/
12:09	nullptr`	hfaafb: yeah, here we say (require-once "../../lib/WebServiceCore.class.php") -- sheesh
12:09	hfaafb	:)
12:09	rasmusto	:)
12:13	jcromartie	,((memfn .toUpperCase) "test")
12:13	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching method found: .toUpperCase for class java.lang.String>
12:13	jcromartie	WHY?
12:14	nullptr`	,((memfn toUpperCase) "test")
12:14	clojurebot	"TEST"
12:14	jcromartie	oh...
12:14	jcromartie	thanks
12:16	martinklepsch	seangrove, rasmusto, that works if I only want to append fn-arguments but not if I want to insert them in the middle
12:19	felher	Why does the following code stack overflow? (println (reduce #(map + %1 %2) (repeat 2000 [1])))
12:19	felher	I guess there some lazy-magic going on there, since doing #(doall (map + %1 %2)) seems to fix the problem.
12:21	justin_smith	felher: for me that does not so, and returns quickly
12:21	justin_smith	,(println (reduce #(map + %1 %2) (repeat 2000 [1])))
12:21	clojurebot	(#<StackOverflowError java.lang.StackOverflowError>
12:21	TEttinger	heh
12:21	justin_smith	odd
12:21	felher	:)
12:22	stuartsierra	felher: Lazy sequences nest. If you wrap too many of them, it overflows the stack when you try to consume it.
12:23	stuartsierra	This shows up often if you use `concat` to build up a long sequence in a loop.
12:23	TEttinger	,(reduce #(mapv + %1 %2) (repeat 2000 [1])) ; I wonder...
12:23	clojurebot	[2000]
12:24	TEttinger	mapv does avoid the laziness from repeat, interesting
12:24	felher	stuartsierra: oh, okay, thanks :)
12:25	justin_smith	TEttinger: I think the problem was the map laziness - it is reduce that eliminates the repeat laziness
12:25	TEttinger	ah
12:26	justin_smith	TEttinger: the reduce ends up building a long chain of map upon map, none forced until the print stage
12:26	TEttinger	ah! that makes sense
12:28	tudd	if you create a defrecord `RecordType` and define an instance with (def RecordType some-record) can you later pass that some-record into another fn and reference some-record.property
12:28	tudd	seems like a straightforward thing to do in OOP-land..
12:28	base698	is there a better repl so you can use emacs bindings to go back in history, jumper words etc?
12:29	jcromartie	base698: cider
12:29	justin_smith	tudd: that makes very little sense
12:29	jcromartie	base698: you can use it to connect to an nREPL in your leiningen projects
12:29	jcromartie	or anywhere, like on a production server :)
12:30	jcromartie	base698: that's an Emacs mode, BTW
12:30	TEttinger	(def RecordType some-record) can't be the right syntax
12:30	justin_smith	clojure version (def instance (RecordType. arg0 arg1 arg2 ... argN)) (:property instance)
12:30	justin_smith	or even (.property instance)
12:33	tudd	http://pastebin.com/htSdGhwY
12:33	justin_smith	,(do (defrecord RecordType [property]) (def instance (RecordType. 42)) (-> instance .property))
12:33	clojurebot	42
12:35	justin_smith	tudd: in that example, you can use (.ticker order) instead of order.ticker
12:35	justin_smith	or (:ticker order)
12:35	justin_smith	or (-> order .ticker)
12:35	justin_smith	but order.ticker is an error
12:36	justin_smith	and the right way to do it: {:params order :handler handler ...}
12:36	tudd	justin_smith: yep. error. but not in the repl
12:36	justin_smith	I am extremely skeptical that it would not be an error in the repl
12:36	justin_smith	just pass order as the params, clojure will use it as a map, it will just work
12:37	tudd	LT is cool with returning order.broker
12:37	justin_smith	also in this case you could just use a map instead of defining an Order record
12:37	justin_smith	then LT is broken
12:37	justin_smith	because that is not clojure code
12:38	lorefyr	Hi everyone
12:38	tudd	I didn't think so. But coming over from JS land, that does work, normally ;)
12:39	justin_smith	right, clojure is not js though
12:39	tudd	cljs
12:40	justin_smith	cljs is not js either
12:41	justin_smith	The google results for searching "clojure publish rss" are filled with useless results (pages that have the word "rss" somewhere, because that page has a feed) - any good libs out there for publishing rss with clojure?
12:41	seangrove	justin_smith: (js/console.log "x") is valid cljs
12:42	justin_smith	seangrove: oh, weird
12:42	seangrove	(js/Math.floor ...)
12:42	seangrove	etc.
12:42	tudd	https://github.com/yogthos/clj-rss
12:42	justin_smith	never mind my above question, I found yogthos/clj-rss
12:42	justin_smith	hah, thanks :)
12:42	stuartsierra	Sometimes the ClojureScript compiler will let through things like `foo.bar`. I wouldn't rely on that, though.
12:43	justin_smith	stuartsierra: so that isn't an intentional feature?
12:43	seangrove	justin_smith: With cljs, it's always hard to tell :)
12:43	tudd	As it spits errors when called from within another fn, I won't
12:44	justin_smith	seangrove: the js murkiness sneaks in, I guess :(
12:45	seangrove	justin_smith: A bit. A lot of it is just unspecified behavior that'll be nailed down as practices are established
12:45	tudd	foo.bar is NOT idiomatic clojure(script), and even though you want it to ultimately become js, not gonna let you!
12:46	justin_smith	yeah, I never even thought to try foo.bar in cljs
12:47	tudd	don't bother. LT gets red-in-the-face mad at ya
12:47	mr-foobar	cljsc nodehello.cljs '{:optimizations : :target :nodejs}' > nodehello.js
12:47	justin_smith	which dead horse?
12:47	mr-foobar	is giving me "goog.addDependency("base.js", ['goog'], []); ..." in the compiled file
12:47	seangrove	foo.bar
12:48	justin_smith	it was new to me, sorry
12:48	seangrove	justin_smith: Oh, not at all ;)
12:48	seangrove	Anyway, just added a css reset: * { position: absolute; top: 0px; left: 0px;}, let's see how this goes
12:50	tudd	justin_smith: thx again! collapsing LOC nicely after your suggestion
12:50	tudd	plus that, it now works! thing
12:50	justin_smith	tudd: cool
12:50	justin_smith	so you are just passing :params order now?
12:51	tudd	yep
12:51	justin_smith	a similar trick is (select-keys order [:keys :we :use :here])
12:51	justin_smith	or (assoc order :this "also" :and "this")
13:07	gozala	tbaldridge: Do you have time for a question regarding core.async/net ?
13:07	tbaldridge	sure
13:10	gozala	tbaldridge: so I was looking at the source
13:10	gozala	tbaldridge: and notice pattern similar to one I used
13:10	gozala	for buliding node.tcp module using core.async
13:11	gozala	tbaldridge: https://github.com/Gozala/node.core/blob/master/src/node/tcp.cljs
13:11	gozala	tbaldridge: only thing I noticed though
13:11	gozala	or rather did not quite got
13:11	tbaldridge	gozala: what do you mean by core.async/net btw? that doesn't quite exist?
13:12	gozala	tbaldridge: I was looking at
13:12	gozala	https://github.com/clojure/core.async/blob/net-channels/src/main/clojure/clojure/core/async/net.clj
13:12	gozala	tbaldridge: I’m aware it’s does not exists yet :)
13:13	tbaldridge	so I'll caution you as that has mostly been considered a bad idea and discontinued :-P
13:13	gozala	tbaldridge: Anyway what I was trying to understand was what’s a good way to deal with errors
13:13	gozala	tbaldridge: I see
13:14	gozala	tbaldridge: are there any ideas right now that are considered good ?
13:14	gozala	in terms of networking or any IO really ?
13:15	tbaldridge	gozala: errors are one thing, that we can discuss. Trying to create channel like semantics over a unreliable connection (like TCP or any net connection) creates a ton of problems.
13:16	gozala	tbaldridge: are those problems listed somewhere ? I would like to look at them
13:16	gozala	tbaldridge: I would also like to discuss errors
13:17	gozala	tbaldridge: so now I define connection in terms of a ISocket
13:17	gozala	that is record of input, output, and error channels
13:18	gozala	so data read from the connection is put onto input
13:18	gozala	data put onto output channel is written into underlying connection
13:19	gozala	if there is an error it’s put onto error channel
13:19	gozala	tbaldridge: ^
13:20	gozala	does that sounds reasonable so far ?
13:21	gozala	or did I ignored tons of problems already ?
13:24	gozala	tbaldridge: So my question regarding errors was mainly regarding how one would distinguish between write and read errors
13:24	gozala	or how had error would carry info regarding where did it happened
13:26	gozala	tbaldridge: I other words I am no longer sure that dedicated error channel for buth input / output errors was such a good idea
13:26	justin_smith	gozala: tcp connections introduce complications in error handling - like with a socket being held open, you don't get an error when you send the message that fails, you get an error later because tcp is retrying (you probably already know this I guess)
13:27	gozala	justin_smith: so that is more or less why I’m bringing it up
13:28	gozala	justin_smith: also I would kind of run into same issue if I would implement something like buffered FileWriter
13:28	tbaldridge	gozala: sorry, had to run for a sec, back now
13:29	gozala	where it’s not obvious how to associate error with chunk that was put
13:29	tbaldridge	gozala: justin_smith brings up some good points, and that's all part of the fun of working with tcp.
13:29	justin_smith	gozala: it forces everything to be async and nonlinear
13:30	tbaldridge	gozala: that's why I took a different approach with Hermod (kindof the successor to core.async/net): https://github.com/halgari/com.tbaldridge.hermod
13:30	justin_smith	so you should make your model so that it maps cleanly to tcp's weird time semantics
13:30	tbaldridge	gozala: if you push error handling off on to the app code things get a bit simpler for both the library and the app (imo).
13:31	gozala	tbaldridge: looking at that lib now
13:32	justin_smith	tbaldridge: gozala: yeah, that looks like the kind of approach I was suggesting actually
13:32	tbaldridge	yeah it's a lot like the actor model, except processes aren't tied to mailboxes.
13:33	gozala	justin_smith: tbaldridge I’m afraid it’s not clear to me yet what the approach looks like yet
13:34	gozala	tbaldridge: are there any examples anywhere outlining error handling ?
13:36	gozala	tbaldridge: or is idea is that if message send timed out that is an error ?
13:36	seangrove	bbloom: In your layout system, is slot meant to be absolutely positioned against the entire screen, and content relative to its parent?
13:38	bbloom	seangrove: i forget how i implemented it, but generally i prefer local coordinates wherever possible
13:38	tbaldridge	gozala: sending a message is always non-blocking, so sending always succeeds, but the message may not get to the other end
13:38	bbloom	game dev habits die hard
13:38	gozala	tbaldridge: so if I read correctly
13:38	tbaldridge	gozala: so the only way to ensure delivery is to send a message with a "respond-do" address and wait until you hear back from the receiver. If you don't get a reply, try resending the message, or give up.
13:38	tbaldridge	"respond-to"
13:38	gozala	there are things like ::errro put on channel
13:39	gozala	tbaldridge: ok I see
13:40	gozala	tbaldridge: I guess what I am looking is something more abstract
13:40	gozala	tbaldridge: Can I give that FileWriter example I mentioned eariler
13:40	bbloom	for the record, i don't think CSP makes any sense in a distributed context
13:41	tbaldridge	and that's the problem. it really doesn't
13:41	tbaldridge	channels are transactional, blocking and guaranteed delivery, that's pretty much the exact opposite of network connections.
13:42	justin_smith	bbloom: I think it can make sense, but only with the added abstraction allowing you to describe tentative and retroactively failed communications - not as a direct mapping (which is the naive and common first approach)
13:42	danielszmulewicz	dnolen_: ping
13:42	dnolen_	danielszmulewicz: pong
13:42	danielszmulewicz	Hi David, you helped me yesterday with bringing javascript objects to participate in pattern matching. I'm wondering now about Javascript arrays. According to the documentation, any Sequential type is eligible, but Javascript arrays are not sequential. Am I right that I could aim to reify array instances with the ISequential protocol? I can't find anything on that. Can you point me to the right direction?
13:42	gozala	tbaldridge: I think it’s not only about networking though
13:42	seangrove	tbaldridge: Is it used for distributed things in Go? I've not seen it at all, so not sure
13:43	bbloom	justin_smith: when failure is the norm, not the exception, i'd prefer a different model
13:43	tbaldridge	seangrove: sure, but go doesn't attempt to make a "distributed channel".
13:43	gozala	if you do any IO and you have a buffered channel to feed data into it
13:43	gozala	tbaldridge: you hit more or less same problem
13:43	bbloom	tbaldridge: justin_smith: CSP is slightly different than just sockets + queues... you can make stuff like zmq work nicely in a distributed context
13:44	seangrove	bbloom: Presumably the global offsets should be passed in as well. I'm thinking of draggable snap-to-guideline/grid/other-thing outside of the component itself
13:44	bbloom	but it's much more complex than shared memory networking
13:44	justin_smith	fair enough :) I'm just saying with the right abstraction failure can be integrated into the CSP model I think - as long as you don't expect the network to be a transperent medium
13:44	seangrove	tbaldridge: Ok, makes sense
13:44	bbloom	seangrove: ok, get ready... i'm going to send you another MSDN link lol
13:44	bbloom	seangrove: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms743737(v=vs.110).aspx
13:44	gozala	on one of the writes to disk writer may fail and there is no clear way to communicate that to a producer
13:44	gozala	or data provider
13:45	tbaldridge	bbloom: YAY! more XAML based stuff
13:45	seangrove	Adorners!
13:45	seangrove	ffs
13:45	tbaldridge	(seriously, the only thing I hated about XAML was the XML part and the mutability, that stuff rocks)
13:45	bbloom	tbaldridge: no really, you're right. xaml is a good idea wrapped in a cloth of bad ideas
13:45	bbloom	tbaldridge: fundamentally, the good idea is basically EDN :-)
13:46	bbloom	general purpose, extensible data construction syntax
13:46	seangrove	Ah, but this does seem like a a good idea
13:46	bbloom	tbaldridge: oh jeeze, i'm sorry
13:46	bbloom	javafx was oracle getting WPF envy and fucking it up
13:46	tbaldridge	javafx2 isn't as bad
13:47	tbaldridge	and don't knockit till you try it, edn syntax + clojure primitive and core.async makes it quite nice actually.
13:47	bbloom	heh ok, i can buy that
13:48	bbloom	at least compared to HTML and/or swing, for sure
13:48	tbaldridge	yeah exactly
13:48	tbaldridge	and now back to working with metadata and macros....to whomever wanted good line numbers inside a go macro....I hate you right now
13:48	tbaldridge	lol
13:48	bbloom	seangrove: anyway, fns to map between local & global coordinates are context-dependent (of course) so you should use local coordinates wherever possible to avoid having to do lots of inverse transformations
13:49	bbloom	seangrove: also, it's ok to put things at negative relative positions, you just need to deal with clipping policy
13:50	danielszmulewicz	dnolen_: Hi David, you helped me yesterday with bringing javascript objects to participate in pattern matching. I'm wondering now about Javascript arrays. According to the documentation, any Sequential type is eligible, but Javascript arrays are not sequential. Am I right that I could aim to reify array instances with the ISequential protocol? I can't find anything on that. Can you point me to the right direction?
13:52	dnolen_	danielszmulewicz: I think for now you need to do (matchv :clojure.core.match/objects [arr] ...)
13:53	dnolen_	danielszmulewicz: I recommend looking at the ClojureScript tests for examples - also feel free to update the wiki, I'm sure other people have similar questions.
13:53	danielszmulewicz	dnolen_: OK, I'll do that. Thanks.
13:54	danielszmulewicz	dnolen_: By the way, converting my array with js->clj doesn't hurt neither. Does this seem acceptable to you?
13:55	seangrove	"The arrange pass begins with a call to the Arrange method. During the arrange pass, the parent Panel element generates a rectangle that represents the bounds of the child. This value is passed to the ArrangeCore method for processing."
13:55	seangrove	bbloom: ^^ The rectangle representing the bounds of the child is the slot rectangle in your system, right?
13:55	dnolen_	danielszmulewicz: yes if expressivity outweights perf
13:55	dnolen_	outweighs
13:56	bbloom	seangrove: right b/c the child may be given a slot that's too big, so the child has margin & alignment settings to say how it gets positioned within that slot
13:56	danielszmulewicz	dnolen_: Yes, makes sense.
13:56	seangrove	bbloom: Alright, hope to have an Om render in an hour or so
13:58	bbloom	seangrove: just added you to a private repo of mine. plz don't commit to it ;-) it's got a layout.clj file that is more feature complete
13:59	bbloom	seangrove: if you eval the render forms in core.clj you can play with the layout engine
14:08	Bronsa	bbloom: just noticed you have a typo in the github description for backtick
14:08	Bronsa	s/marco/macro
14:09	bbloom	Bronsa: fixed, thanks
14:13	mikerod	are there any libs out there that deal with attempting to fully-qualify all symbols in chunks of code and the context of their originating namespace? the goal being to store off the code as pure-data, that is sufficiently descriptive to be read back in and compiled at a later time.
14:14	mikerod	chunks of code with the context of their originating namespace
14:14	technomancy	mikerod: sounds like the analyzer?
14:14	amalloy	mikerod: tools.analyzer?
14:17	mikerod	technomancy: amalloy this is what I thought
14:18	mikerod	I'm not sure that it actually "qualifies" the symbols; but mabye I haven't dug enough
14:18	mikerod	I know the idea is to make the AST data though
14:18	amalloy	it knows where they come from
14:18	mikerod	ok
14:18	mikerod	I think I will continue to explore that then
14:18	amalloy	and then you can write a pass that consumes the AST and produces whatever you want. if you want, that can be a source-code form with qualified symbols, i imagine
14:19	mikerod	that makes sense
14:19	mikerod	this sounds promising
14:19	mikerod	I've only scratched the surface on tools.analyzer; and recently listened to the talk by umm
14:19	amalloy	by tbaldridge
14:19	amalloy	(i guess, anyway)
14:20	mikerod	yes
14:20	mikerod	that is it :)
14:20	mikerod	"data all the ASTs"
14:20	tbaldridge	mikerod: you might checkout this : https://github.com/clojure/tools.analyzer/blob/master/src/main/clojure/clojure/tools/analyzer/ast/query.clj
14:20	tbaldridge	it stores tools.analyzer asts in Datomic
14:21	tbaldridge	haven't tried it, but it looks cool.
14:21	Bronsa	mikerod: there's an emit-form pass that compiles the AST back to clojure source. It doesn't return qualified symbols but I have a branch locally that enables that, I can finish that and push that if you need it.
14:21	mikerod	tbaldridge: awesome and Bronsa that certainly sounds valuable
14:21	Bronsa	tbaldridge: it doesn't really store asts in Datomic, it just uses Datomic's datalog
14:22	mikerod	I have done some "hand-rolling" of my own to qualify symbols
14:22	mikerod	but not to the extent of the full-blown AST analysis
14:22	tbaldridge	Bronsa: yeah I just noticed that, lol
14:22	Bronsa	mikerod: beware that it will macroexpand the source though
14:24	mikerod	Bronsa: yeah, I am curious on this. I technically have some symbols in the source that do not "make sense" in the initial context. I'm wondering if this will cause the analysis to fail, or if I can "mock out" those symbols into the context to avoid failure.
14:24	mikerod	This is DSL-stuff
14:24	Bronsa	mikerod: the analyzis will work only if the source can be eval'ed.
14:25	Bronsa	mikerod: however you can cheat and give the analyzer a patched-up env
14:25	mikerod	e.g. I have some code like: (+ a b im-a-undefined-symbol) ; where a and b are defined, the other is not; I will fill it in at a later time when reading back out the code and evaluating
14:25	mikerod	Bronsa: I think the patched-up env was my hopes/thoughts
14:26	Bronsa	mikerod: to do that you need to know what locals/vars your code is going to use that are not already defined though
14:26	jcromartie	for some reason I'm stumped on this one: how to write a HOF which takes a function and returns a new function that ensures the original function is called once and only once
14:27	mikerod	Bronsa: I figured. I do wish I could "catch" failures to resolve symbols and provide a handler for it. I'm not thinking this is possible, but just a cool idea.
14:27	Bronsa	mikerod: if you can't know that, a really hackish way to make that work is to redefine this multimethod https://github.com/clojure/tools.analyzer.jvm/blob/master/src/main/clojure/clojure/tools/analyzer/passes/jvm/validate.clj#L19 not to throw
14:27	Averell	a closure with a flag is not good enough?
14:27	jcromartie	Averell: derp
14:28	jcromartie	well no
14:28	jcromartie	that's not good enough
14:28	jcromartie	what if it's called from two threads?
14:29	mikerod	Bronsa: interesting, thanks for the reference
14:29	jcromartie	oh, maybe a promise is what I'm looking for
14:29	jcromartie	eh… still, race condition
14:30	jcromartie	the function that I want to once-ify has side effects
14:31	jcromartie	hm, maybe laziness is the answer
14:31	amalloy	jcromartie: you close over a delay
14:31	amalloy	assuming the args are known already?
14:31	jcromartie	args are not known
14:32	jcromartie	basically like memoize
14:32	jcromartie	but safe for side effects
14:32	amalloy	eh. so you use the same trick that's available to make memoize avoid side effects
14:33	amalloy	(defn call-once [f] (let [value (atom nil)] (fn [& args] @(swap! value #(or % (delay (apply f args)))))))
14:33	amalloy	er, avoid side-effect problems
14:34	justin_smith	jcromartie: maybe something like https://www.refheap.com/77421
14:34	jcromartie	amalloy: memoize is not safe
14:34	jcromartie	,(let [f (memoize println)] (dorun (pmap f (repeatedly 10 #(rand-int 10)))))
14:34	clojurebot	#<SecurityException java.lang.SecurityException: no threads please>
14:34	amalloy	jcromartie: that's why i said, the trick that's available. you can make memoize safe by storing a delay
14:34	jcromartie	ok
14:35	jcromartie	ahhh
14:35	amalloy	instead of storing the actual value
14:35	amalloy	i mean, i just typed out my call-once in irc, but i think it's the solution you want
14:37	amalloy	holy smokes, justin_smith. if you use @ and reset!, you're like never thread-safe
14:38	justin_smith	good point
14:39	amalloy	jcromartie: my version returns the result of the first call, regardless of what args are passed to the second call. so that may not be what you want, i suppose
14:44	Bronsa	mikerod: just pushed the impl: http://sprunge.us/WLaL?clj
14:45	justin_smith	amalloy: jcromartie: edited https://www.refheap.com/77421
14:45	jcromartie	see, this is harder than everybody thinks it is :)
14:45	mikerod	Bronsa: awesome! thanks. I will definitely start experimenting with this then.
14:46	amalloy	that has the same problem memoize has, justin_smith. two threads can both be inside that swap! at the same time
14:46	justin_smith	oh, tricky
14:47	amalloy	that's, again, not a problem in my solution
14:48	koreth_	I want to parse a whitespace-delimited string into a vector of integers. (mapv #(Long. %) (clojure.string/split my-string #"\s")) does the trick but #(Long. %) seems unnecessarily ugly -- is there a more idiomatic "parse a number" function?
14:48	jcromartie	if it's a thunk it's not a problem
14:49	amalloy	jcromartie: huh?
14:49	justin_smith	amalloy: yours not intended for usage with functions that return nil, I assume?
14:49	amalloy	justin_smith: works for all functions
14:49	amalloy	try it and see
14:50	Averell	why is it safe? i don't understand which part hides the locking
14:50	amalloy	Averell: it's dereffing the delay
14:50	amalloy	there's a lock around that
14:50	justin_smith	amalloy: oh, of course, because it returns the delay, and derefs, so that delay will not be nil after the first call
14:50	justin_smith	smart
14:51	jcromartie	amalloy: I think yours is good BTW
14:51	jcromartie	I was saying that if you want to make a thunk callable once it's really easy
14:51	jcromartie	if you don't have to worry about args
14:52	amalloy	oh, for sure. that was my original suggestion: close over a delay
14:52	amalloy	but it only works for thunks
14:52	nullptr`	koreth_: somewhat clunky, but you can use read-string instead of #(Long. %)
14:52	koreth_	Thanks
15:10	jcromartie	Is there a simpler version of: (not-any? nil? coll)
15:10	jcromartie	I think it's pretty clear, myself.
15:16	jcromartie	long-running futures are probably not a good way to handle periodic background tasks
15:16	jcromartie	like, (loop … (Thread/sleep 300000) (recur))
15:16	jcromartie	wrapped in a future
15:19	teslanick	You could use core.async to handle occasional background tasks.
15:21	seangrove	bbloom: https://www.refheap.com/fa7a23df23c6a97e7725391be => http://dl.dropbox.com/u/412963/Screenshots/du.png, slots working, content up next
15:22	bbloom	seangrove: cool
15:22	Rosnec	is it possible to use ztellman's gloss library to decode bytes from a file where you don't know the byte-count ahead of time?
15:22	bbloom	seangrove: happy with my approach? i don't remember how i felt about it ;-)
15:23	seangrove	Black space represent difference between slot-space and content-space. Some cheating in that the browser is still doing some layout intra-component.
15:23	seangrove	bbloom: So far, mostly very happy. Few questions though
15:23	bbloom	seangrove: relying on browser for text layout etc is probably quite sensible
15:23	Rosnec	I can put byte-counts as prefix information, but I still need to be able to read from the file without knowing the size right away
15:24	bbloom	seangrove: definitely check out how that newer code i gave you access to handles margin & alignment
15:24	jcromartie	this is how I roll https://gist.github.com/jcromartie/11052252
15:25	Bronsa	jcromartie: jesus christ.
15:25	amalloy	jcromartie: (partial - 0)? that's just -
15:26	bbloom	jcromartie: #concatenative is that way ---->
15:26	amalloy	oh, no, i guess it's not, if you pass multiple args?
15:26	amalloy	but in your case you're not
15:26	jcromartie	oh, good to know!
15:27	amalloy	and what is the deal with (comp f (comp g h) blah blah)?
15:27	amalloy	(if you're going to post silly point-free code i have to assume you're willing to have it picked apart)
15:27	jcromartie	which line?
15:27	jcromartie	yes, please
15:27	amalloy	10-12
15:28	jcromartie	ah yes
15:28	Averell	btw, vigenere is no longer considered safe by many people.
15:28	amalloy	(comp (partial map (comp f g)) (partial map h)) is (partial map (comp f g h))
15:28	mi6x3m	clojure, why is this working: (map (fn [a] { :a a }) "aaaa"), but this doesn't: (map #({ :a % }) "aaaa")
15:28	Bronsa	mi6x3m: #(f) is (fn [] (f)) not (fn [] f)
15:29	seangrove	bbloom: Should components be able to provide default layout guidance? e.g. I have a bootstrap panel, it conceptually has a header and a body. I probably want to think about layout for the body, but not necessarily the panel header (e.g. it should always be 15px heigh and 100% wide if that's what it suggests)
15:29	amalloy	,'#({ :a % })
15:29	clojurebot	(fn* [p1__25#] ({:a p1__25#}))
15:30	bbloom	seangrove: the parent shouldn't have any insight in to what's inside the children other than to parameterize them
15:30	jcromartie	amalloy: excellent
15:30	amalloy	(partial list cycle [0]) is weird but i don't really get what it's doing
15:30	bbloom	seangrove: so from the parent's perspective, layout is about bounding rect only
15:30	mi6x3m	Bronsa: I see, so I have to use a function to create the map?
15:30	amalloy	(comp reverse (partial list ...)) seems like it ought to be (comp rseq (partial vector ...)) - gotta eke out all that performance!
15:31	mi6x3m	Bronsa: yeah, works with hash-map
15:31	mi6x3m	tnx
15:32	derek_c	does anyone know how to specify a head value in a ring handler? it's returning something like {:status 200 :body "..."}, but I tried adding a :head key and it didn't work
15:32	derek_c	the resulting HTML has an empty head element
15:32	hfaafb	:body doesn't mean the contents of <body>
15:33	hfaafb	it represents the body of the http response
15:33	derek_c	hfaafb: ah!
15:33	derek_c	hfaafb: got it. thanks a lot
15:34	hfaafb	yw
15:34	jcromartie	amalloy: I had never heard of rseq before… good to know!
15:37	jcromartie	also, (comp vec (partial map f)) is (comp (partial mapv f))
15:37	jcromartie	soon this will be as concise as it would be with arguments!
15:38	justin_smith	jcromartie: you could also maybe reverse the order of the code and use ->> instead of comp
15:39	justin_smith	dunno if that defeats the point of what you are trying to do
15:40	hyPiRion	jcromartie: and `(comp (partial mapv f))` is just `(partial mapv f)`
15:40	amalloy	(comp reverse (partial list 26)) could also be written as (partial conj '(26))
15:40	jcromartie	well true but I have more in the comp
15:41	jcromartie	amalloy: yeah, just arrived at that oto
15:41	jcromartie	too
15:41	amalloy	that's a better solution than my earlier suggestion of comping rseq and vector
15:41	jcromartie	same for (partial conj (list [0] cycle)) for the args to (partial apply update-in)
15:41	jcromartie	now here's a question: is
15:41	jcromartie	is "let"
15:41	jcromartie	(excuse me, typing difficulties)
15:42	jcromartie	is "let" considered valid in point-free style?
15:42	amalloy	certainly not
15:42	jcromartie	ok
15:42	justin_smith	it's not really point free is it?
15:42	jcromartie	justin_smith: why not?
15:42	justin_smith	the bindings have names
15:42	amalloy	a "point" is a named variable
15:42	bbloom	jcromartie: post a before & after when you're done :-P
15:43	jcromartie	oh let, no
15:43	justin_smith	or am I missing what you are saying altogether
15:43	seangrove	bbloom: From the parent's perspective, layout (for the parent, or for any of its children) is about bounding rect only?
15:44	seangrove	Whoops, meant to ask essentailly, whether the parent knows the layout of its childrent or is allowed to set the bounding rect of its children
15:45	bbloom	seangrove: only the runtime does any sort of hierarchical layout. any given layout mechanism should only handle a list of rectangles
15:45	jcromartie	justin_smith: I thought you were talking about the code as a whole, not just let bindings
15:45	jcromartie	but point-free programming is not just programming without names
15:45	jcromartie	it's programming without named arguments to functions
15:45	jcromartie	you still need to name things
15:46	jcromartie	I'd like to eliminate the redundant (int \A)
15:47	derek_c	can you write simple text-substitution macros in Clojure? Like for instance, I want a macro that represents two literal elements 1 and 2, so that I can create a vector with 3 elements like this: [(my-macro) 3]. Is that possible?
15:47	amalloy	that's what juxt is for, jcromartie. create two different functions that both want to receive (int \A) and juxt em together
15:48	amalloy	derek_c: no
15:48	amalloy	you can write `[~@(my-macro) 3]
15:48	justin_smith	derek_c: for that to work, it would need to be possible to return two things that are not joined by some structure, which just isn't a thing in clojure
15:49	derek_c	the thing is, I'm working with hiccup templates, and I just can't figure out how to properly compose views
15:49	derek_c	you guys know how hiccup/html takes an arbitrary number of arguments right
15:50	jcromartie	I can just (def a-start (int \A))
15:50	derek_c	so say all my views start with two certain elements, like
15:50	amalloy	derek_c: you want the function named: list
15:50	amalloy	(html (list a b) c) is the same as (html a b c)
15:50	derek_c	amalloy: oh really?
15:51	derek_c	amalloy: but that's not a language-level thing right? it's just hiccup looks at the argument and say, ok it's a list, so we do this
15:51	justin_smith	,(concat [1 2] [3]) in other contexts, there is concat
15:51	clojurebot	(1 2 3)
15:51	amalloy	indeed
15:51	bbloom	seangrove: does that make sense?
15:51	arav93	stuartsierra: Does the construct-calendar private function in clojure.instant take a string as input, I felt it's so by reading through the code, just need to confirm.\
15:53	stuartsierra	arav93: Honestly I don't remember anything about clojure.instant.
15:53	arav93	Yeah, I'm sorry to have disturbed you.
15:53	derek_c	is (list 1 2) the exact same thing as '(1 2)?
15:54	derek_c	amalloy: thanks a lot!
15:54	amalloy	welllllll, there are a lot of ways to understand that question
15:55	derek_c	found this: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3896542/in-lisp-clojure-emacs-lisp-what-is-the-difference-between-list-and-quote
15:55	amalloy	if they're evaluated, then yes they have the same value. but if they're passed to a macro that inspects them, it will see something different. or if you need something that's not a literal, rather than 1 and 2, then the two forms do different things...
15:55	justin_smith	,(do (require 'clojure.instant 'clojure.repl) (clojure.repl/source clojure.instant/construct-calendar))
15:55	clojurebot	Source not found\n
15:55	stuartsierra	`clojure.instant/construct-calendar` just takes integer arguments for each component of the Calendar.
15:55	stuartsierra	https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/201a0dd9701e1a0ee3998431241388eb4a854ebf/src/clj/clojure/instant.clj#L237
15:55	justin_smith	as is clear if you look at the source
16:00	jcromartie	(def papply (partial partial apply))
16:00	jcromartie	#ohgodwhy
16:01	amalloy	jcromartie: that's in useful, named ap
16:02	amalloy	though i don't think i ever actually used it
16:04	justin_smith	(def pc (partial conj)) would also make it more succinct
16:04	justin_smith	I meant partial partial conj of course
16:04	Rosnec	does anybody know if the ztellman/gloss library has a means of reading encoded data from an input which possibly has extra bytes on the end?
16:05	jcromartie	oh god oh god oh god
16:05	jcromartie	how about (comp (partial apply mod) reverse (partial list 26))
16:05	jcromartie	oops
16:06	jcromartie	(def parpar (partial partial partial))
16:07	hyPiRion	now just throw in a juxt there and you're set
16:07	justin_smith	(def parpar (apply partial [(take 2 (repeatedly partial))])) ; easier to generalize
16:09	justin_smith	(def parpar (apply partial (take 2 (repeat partial)))) ; fixed
16:10	hyPiRion	justin_smith: (repeat 2 partial) is shorter
16:10	justin_smith	true!
16:10	jcromartie	nice
16:11	mi6x3m-alt	hey who here is using nightcode?
16:11	mi6x3m-alt	is seems to be a fun IDE
16:11	mi6x3m-alt	quick start and someone effective for small stuff
16:11	justin_smith	(defn parⁿ [n] (apply partial (take n (repeat partial))))
16:11	jcromartie	beat me to it, justin_smith
16:11	justin_smith	heh, I even put a nice superscript in the name
16:13	jcromartie	justin_smith: but you have a named arg!
16:22	oinksoft	what does &name mean in clojure?
16:23	oinksoft	like &form and &env in the source on http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/defn
16:23	Bronsa	oinksoft: &name has no special meaning in clojure, it's a regular symbol
16:23	justin_smith	,((fn [& name] (concat name name)) 1 2 3 4)
16:23	clojurebot	(1 2 3 4 1 ...)
16:23	justin_smith	,((fn [& name] (concat name name)) 1 2)
16:23	clojurebot	(1 2 1 2)
16:23	weavejester	oinksoft: They’re special macro symbols
16:23	oinksoft	Bronsa: how does defn bind to the name without using a macro?
16:24	weavejester	oinksoft: http://blog.jayfields.com/2011/02/clojure-and.html
16:24	Bronsa	oinksoft: &form and &env are implicit arguments on macros
16:24	Bronsa	oinksoft: thei are bound by the defmacro macro
16:24	oinksoft	but defn isn't defined as a macro?
16:24	oinksoft	or am i readin gthis wrong http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/defn
16:25	Bronsa	oinksoft: it is declared as a macro later in the source
16:25	Bronsa	oinksoft: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/clj/clojure/core.clj#L318
16:26	weavejester	oinksoft: the clojure.core source code shouldn’t be considered idiomatic Clojure, because it’s bootstrapping the language
16:27	oinksoft	interesting, thanks Bronsa
16:27	weavejester	defmacro is defined after defn in the source, so defn is “manually” converted into a macro
16:27	rasmusto	defmacro is a fn?
16:28	oinksoft	nope it is bootstrapped the same way as a macro
16:28	weavejester	rasmusto: internally macros are functions that are tagged as being macros
16:28	oinksoft	and it calls (list '. (list 'var name) '(setMacro)), which is what is done manually for defn and defmacro
16:29	rasmusto	oh this thing? (. (var defmacro) (setMacro))
16:29	oinksoft	thanks Bronsa and weavejester :)
16:29	Bronsa	rasmusto: yeah. setMacro simply adds :macro true to the Var's meta
16:29	weavejester	Yeah. Needless to say, this isn’t what you should use in your own Clojure apps.
16:30	rasmusto	hah, okay. Thanks for the clarification
16:31	weavejester	Hm, should I go with “reploaded” or “reloaded.repl” for a library of repl functions based off the reloaded workflow
16:32	arrdem	the latter
16:32	weavejester	That was my inclination as well. It gives a nicer namespace
16:32	arrdem	punny names are awesome but hard to remember and search for :P
16:32	Frozenlock	reloaded.repl is indeed nicer
16:32	arrdem	$logs
16:33	arrdem	right. I'm bot ignored.
16:33	weavejester	punny names do have the advantage of being unique, though.
16:34	Frozenlock	It's the wild west here, first one to grab a namespace gets it!
16:35	arrdem	plz no top level packages
16:35	arrdem	plz
16:37	hrathod	https://github.com/john2x/repload
16:37	Frozenlock	Take a dictionary, loop through it and create a clojars project for each one of them... yes, I can see how my master plan would work.
16:37	Frozenlock	evil laugh
16:37	weavejester	Frozenlock: I actually got burned by something like that. Had to name a project package “lein-gen” instead of “lein-generate” because in Clojars there’s a “lein-generate” that was written in 2010, and has since been abandoned (deleted repo, deleted github user, etc.)
16:38	rasmusto	org.clojure.core2
16:38	Frozenlock	perhaps a year prefix could be the best of both worlds :-/
16:40	Frozenlock	weavejester: and contrary to domain names, this one is forever lost :'-(
16:41	weavejester	Frozenlock: Yeah. I toyed around with the idea of asking to see if it could be removed, since it was only downloaded 4 times, but that kinda sets a bad precedent.
16:42	weavejester	I kinda think those people who use their domain names in their package names might have a point… :)
16:44	arrdem	$seen gtrak
16:44	lazybot	gtrak was last seen quitting 1 hour and 49 minutes ago.
16:45	arrdem	weavejester: yeah. my stuff is all me.arrdem/*
16:46	technomancy	domain names are great for common nouns
16:46	arrdem	because I know _I_'m a singleton, so my stuff is safely unique :D
16:46	technomancy	but common nouns are boring
16:46	technomancy	arrdem: good thing domain registrations are forever, right?
16:47	arrdem	technomancy: I mean.. my namecoins are registered into the next millennium so...
16:48	weavejester	stuartsierra: Out of curiousity, is the reason for creating one’s own start/stop/reset functions in user.clj just a question of customisability?
16:48	stuartsierra	weavejester: yes
16:49	stuartsierra	You need some way to hook in to application code to call a constructor.
16:49	stuartsierra	I've been thinking about making a generic version using com.stuartsierra/component.
16:50	weavejester	stuartsierra: That’s what I was thinking of doing. Not only would it cut down on some boilerplate, but I think it would be better when namespaces fail to load
16:51	stuartsierra	weavejester: Yes. At least one other person has done this that I know of.
16:51	weavejester	stuartsierra: i.e. you could still have a “reset” even if your own code failed to load.
16:51	weavejester	stuartsierra: Oh, do you recall who it was?
16:51	stuartsierra	weavejester: No, it's buried in the comments on my original blog post on thinkrelevance.com
16:51	weavejester	stuartsierra: I’ll take a look through it. Thanks for the pointer.
16:51	stuartsierra	you're welcome
16:53	weavejester	stuartsierra: Incidentally, have you found yourself needing to use “bridge” components at all? For example, I have a HTTP server component, and a component that handles websocket connections. To connect them I use a bridging component that just creates a handler with some static content, but doesn’t actually have state.
16:54	stuartsierra	weavejester: All the time. Sometimes I even just have an empty map with some dependency metadata.
16:54	weavejester	stuartsierra: Oh good. It’s not just me, then!
16:55	stuartsierra	I'm not sure yet if I like it, design-wise, but it doesn't cause any problems that I can see.
16:56	weavejester	It feels a little off, design-wise, for me too. But I haven’t been able to come up with anything better that doesn’t add unnecessary complication.
16:58	weavejester	stuartsierra: I was toying around with the idea of a “::provides” metadata value though
16:58	weavejester	For components that have a single useful value, like :handler
16:59	stuartsierra	I justify it (empty components) on the grounds that I am merely reifying a structure that was implicit in the code anyway.
16:59	weavejester	(component/using (component/bridge make-handler) [:app])
17:00	stuartsierra	I have also written components whose main job is to create and cache a value.
17:00	stuartsierra	I usually provide access to that value through a function.
17:01	stuartsierra	I hadn't thought about declaring that in the metadata.
17:01	weavejester	stuartsierra: It sounds like it might be possible to write some functions around common patterns, in the same way system-map exists
17:02	stuartsierra	Very likely.
17:02	weavejester	I’ll toy around with the concept and see if I can’t come up with something useful.
17:02	stuartsierra	I always want to try those things out in apps before codifying them in a shared library. That's how system-map came about.
17:03	weavejester	stuartsierra: Yeah, same here. My feeling is that you need to be pretty sure a function is going to be useful before including it in a library.
17:04	weavejester	But I think in all the component-based stuff I’ve done, I wind up with an awful lot of components who are depended upon for a single value.
17:04	weavejester	e.g. databases for their connections. apps for their handler functions. etc.
17:05	weavejester	^{::provides :handler} (new-hander-provider …), ^{{:provides :conn} (new-database …)
17:05	stuartsierra	Yes, I've seen both types as well: "connection" objects and pre-compiled functions.
17:05	weavejester	Maybe. I’m not sure :)
17:05	stuartsierra	What would you do with that metadata?
17:07	weavejester	stuartsierra: Use it when handling the dependencies, so instead of passing the whole component, we pass the value it wraps.
17:07	stuartsierra	Oh, I see.
17:07	stuartsierra	Hmmm.
17:08	weavejester	{:server (using server [:app]), :app (provides app :handler)}
17:08	stuartsierra	Not sure about that. Feels like it's exposing internal details.
17:08	weavejester	stuartsierra: Yeah, I’m not sure either. I got halfway writing up an issue about it, then changed my mind.
17:09	stuartsierra	Try it out and see how it goes.
17:11	stuartsierra	I'd much rather have experience reports than issues or patches.
17:14	weavejester	stuartsierra: We’re thinking along the same lines. I was going to try it out in my next project.
17:14	stuartsierra	weavejester: cool
17:18	shiranaihito	https://www.refheap.com/77439 -- how do inner maps get created there?
17:21	dnolen_	,(assoc nil :foo 'bar)
17:21	clojurebot	{:foo bar}
17:21	dnolen_	shiranaihito: ^
17:21	bbloom	dnolen_: i was literally typing that
17:21	noonian	me too lol
17:21	bbloom	well, :x and 1
17:21	noonian	:foo and 17
17:22	bbloom	noonian: dnolen_ likes the classics
17:22	shiranaihito	oh :p
17:22	noonian	yeah, i like using symbols as values also; i think that's something that people new to clojure don't usually understand off the bat
17:22	shiranaihito	kinky
17:23	shiranaihito	that seems like weird behaviour though
17:24	H4ns	hi. it's the simple things that make me struggle always: how do i get {1 2, 3 4} from [1 2 3 4]?
17:24	noonian	,(apply hash-map [1 2 3 4])
17:24	clojurebot	{1 2, 3 4}
17:24	noonian	,(doc hash-map)
17:24	clojurebot	"([] [& keyvals]); keyval => key val Returns a new hash map with supplied mappings. If any keys are equal, they are handled as if by repeated uses of assoc."
17:24	H4ns	noonian: ah, thanks!
17:25	noonian	np
17:27	shiranaihito	"(apply hash-map [1 2 3 4])" <-- damn, i actually wrote a helper method for that.. :p
17:28	dnolen_	,(into {} [1 2 3 4])
17:28	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: java.lang.Long>
17:29	dnolen_	oops
17:29	dnolen_	,(into {} [[1 2] [3 4])
17:29	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unmatched delimiter: )>
17:29	dnolen_	,(into {} [[1 2] [3 4]])
17:29	clojurebot	{1 2, 3 4}
17:29	dnolen_	erg, anyways, also ^ depending
17:32	rasmusto	,(into {} (partition 2 [1 2 3 4]))
17:32	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Long cannot be cast to java.util.Map$Entry>
17:32	rasmusto	,(into {} (map vec (partition 2 [1 2 3 4])))
17:32	clojurebot	{1 2, 3 4}
17:32	rasmusto	alternatively ##(into {} (mapv identity (partition 2 [1 2 3 4])))
17:32	lazybot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Long cannot be cast to java.util.Map$Entry
17:32	rasmusto	hah, nvm
17:38	TEttinger	I think the apply hash-map solution is cleanest?
17:39	tuft	i think apply hash-map fixes the concrete type, while into {} doesn't
17:39	TEttinger	I don't even know what a concrete type is in this context
17:39	noonian	with into you have to massage the input vector a bit
17:40	noonian	hash-map vs array-map or tree-map i guess
17:40	noonian	but i doubt the OP care's
17:41	itruslove	Can anyone tell me what the "dev-resources" resource path is intended for?
17:41	itruslove	https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/7cc9d6163244fba1f0eedea43396b2a6a04528e9/leiningen-core/src/leiningen/core/project.clj#L424
17:41	itruslove	It sounds like it's a default resources directory for dev, but it's defined in the :base profile.
17:46	vendethiel	Mhhm, isn't `(fn [& [a b]] ())` the same as `(fn [a b] ())` ?
17:46	vendethiel	Ooh; I guess the first form makes them optional
17:47	technomancy	itruslove: the purpsoe is the same
17:47	technomancy	if it were in :dev, user-defined :dev profiles would override it
17:50	itruslove	technomancy: gotcha, thanks
17:51	holo	hi
17:53	holo	I have a dilemma (revisited): to store or not to store generated.js and generated.css in git. the problem is, other collaborators may forget to run build after pull and not understand immediately their problem is they are running some outdated version of .js or .css
17:54	holo	how are you guys/girls doing this?
17:55	dbasch	holo: explain the required steps in your README file
17:56	holo	dbasch, that's what I'm doing. my thinking was: humans are just unreliable
17:57	rasmusto	how about a makefile? :)
17:57	rasmusto	eh, probably just a blurb in a readme telling them to rerun everything is good
17:57	rasmusto	so long as they don't have to do anything manually
17:58	blake	Style/idiom question: Given data of keyed values {:k1 :v1 :k2 :v2} and a map of new names for keys {:k1 :l1 :k2 :l2} I want an output of {:l1 :v1 :l2 :v3}. I'm using:
17:58	blake	(zipmap (map val a-map) (map data (map key a-map)))
17:58	nullptr`	echo 'alert("Hey! You need to run lein something-or-other!");' >> generated.js
17:58	lazybot	'alert("Hey! You need to run lein something-or-other!");' >> generated.js
17:59	blake	((I get the desired results.)
17:59	holo	rasmusto, that's the point, rerun already implies manual! or at least I think it does
18:00	rasmusto	holo: so they're just opening this stuff in a browser (without running any clojure tools)?
18:02	dbasch	blake: http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/1.2.0/clojure.set/rename-keys
18:03	holo	rasmusto, they (one person only actually) are using lein. yeah ok, maybe I can drop also a msg in :init
18:04	dbasch	,(clojure.set/rename-keys {:k1 :v1 :k2 :v2} {:k1 :l1 :k2 :l2})
18:04	clojurebot	#<ClassNotFoundException java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.set>
18:04	holo	rasmusto, actually :repl-options {:welcome "bla"}
18:04	rasmusto	holo: cool, that should work well imo
18:04	holo	we are running the app under lein repl :)
18:05	holo	rasmusto, thanks for the chat hehe :)
18:08	blake	dbasch: Thanks!
18:11	blake	dbasch: rename-keys ... cannot resolve symbol.... I need to include clojure.set?
18:12	dbasch	blake: yes
18:12	blake	dbasch, tx
18:22	justin_smith	vendethiel: also the first form allows providing extra ignored args
18:22	vendethiel	justin_smith: noted, thanks :)
18:24	perses	what is the wrong in this code, http://sprunge.us/bEjG , it doesn't work
18:27	justin_smith	perses: I get a stack overflow, try changing the self call in find-sqrt to recur
18:28	justin_smith	never mind, that just changes the overflow into a seemingly infinite loop
18:29	perses	justin_smith: can't i make a recursing in clojure?
18:29	justin_smith	it is not tail call optimized unless you use recur or trampoline
18:29	justin_smith	without the optimization, this code is running out of stack
18:29	justin_smith	because somewhere the guess is not getting improved where it should be
18:30	perses	i guess it should be a very basic for a fp to use recursing in this way
18:31	justin_smith	you guess wrong, or maybe clojure isn't fp
18:32	justin_smith	or maybe it is easy but we don't do it anyway
18:32	perses	maybe i'm wrong about clojure
18:32	perses	justin_smith: recur don't terminate
18:32	justin_smith	right, like I said, I added a print statement, and your code keeps guessing 2.0 but not accepting that guess
18:32	Bronsa	perses: your good-enough? function is wrong
18:33	amalloy	perses: you may want an absolute-value in good-enough
18:33	amalloy	oh, and it should read (* guess guess), not (* guess n)
18:33	amalloy	maybe? i dunno. i'm bad at this. i resign
18:34	Bronsa	perses: http://sprunge.us/SMec?clj
18:40	justin_smith	(defn good-enough? [n guess] (<= (Math/abs (- n (square guess))) 0.1))
18:40	justin_smith	that def fixes the code
18:41	justin_smith	also, a good trick when something is recursing infinitely is add a println of the args and a (Thread/sleep 1000) to the top of the thing
18:41	justin_smith	that often helps expose the problem
18:49	technomancy	$seen brehaut
18:49	lazybot	brehaut was last seen quitting 2 weeks ago.
19:02	Frozenlock	Does lein select JRE by default?
19:03	justin_smith	it should use your default java
19:03	justin_smith	I don't think the question of whether it is jre / jdk would come into play normally
19:03	koreth_	Is there an equivalent of mapcat that returns a set rather than a list? Obviously (apply hash-set (map f coll)) works, but if there are a lot of duplicate values that'll waste memory building the intermediate list.
19:03	Frozenlock	justin_smith: Ah I see, so it's my fault :)
19:04	Frozenlock	Yeah, but I want to use the jvisualvm
19:04	koreth_	Or maybe I should be using reduce rather than map.
19:04	justin_smith	Frozenlock: ahh, so you need the dt-socket to be open - but that should work across jvm versions anyway
19:05	Frozenlock	justin_smith: I don't know... when I ran jvisualvm it just said that I needed to run the JDK, not the JRE
19:05	justin_smith	koreth_: yeah, or use into #{} - that shouldn't hold onto the head
19:05	justin_smith	Frozenlock: oh, ok then
19:06	justin_smith	,(into #{} (map inc (range 10)))
19:06	clojurebot	#{7 1 4 6 3 ...}
19:06	rasmusto	##(into #{} (map inc (range 10)))
19:06	lazybot	⇒ #{1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10}
19:06	rasmusto	just checking hashing order, don't mind me
19:06	justin_smith	versions!
19:07	amalloy	rasmusto: /msg the bots, if you don't have a reason for everyone to read what you're writing
19:07	justin_smith	,clojure-version ##clojure-version
19:07	clojurebot	{:major 1, :minor 6, :incremental 0, :qualifier nil}
19:08	justin_smith	I guess lazybot has some anti-quine magic
19:09	hyPiRion	justin_smith: yeah, sorry about that
19:09	justin_smith	:)
19:09	amalloy	justin_smith: really it's a quirk of how ## parses - he reads the string that comes after ##, and if it's not a collection (usually a list, of course), he assumes you are talking about an irc channel like ##java or something
19:09	justin_smith	oh, OK
19:09	justin_smith	,clojure-version ##(do clojure-version)
19:09	clojurebot	{:major 1, :minor 6, :incremental 0, :qualifier nil}
19:09	lazybot	⇒ {:major 1, :minor 4, :incremental 0, :qualifier nil}
19:09	amalloy	lazybot giving an error message after every mention of ##java gets old fast
19:09	justin_smith	right
19:10	rasmusto	"##java gets old fast" -amalloy
19:10	rasmusto	:)
19:11	dbasch	koreth_: you could do (distinct (map …)), distinct is lazy
19:11	justin_smith	(inc dbasch)
19:11	lazybot	⇒ 1
19:11	justin_smith	great idea
19:13	hyPiRion	rasmusto: keep in mind that the order is incidental
19:14	seangrove	bbloom: In :fixed vs :canvas (absolute), is the fixed positioning still relative to the parent or to the root view of the UI? I would expect the former. Luckily, CSS does the latter.
19:15	hyPiRion	,(apply = (map (comp seq set) [(range -10 11) (range 10 -11 -1)]))
19:15	clojurebot	true
19:15	seangrove	s/luckily/irritatingly
19:15	rasmusto	hyPiRion: ah, I knew that. Was just curious of how the new hash algo ordered integers
19:15	hyPiRion	alright
19:16	bbloom	seangrove: i don't recall
19:16	justin_smith	##(apply = (map (comp seq set) [(range -10 11) (range 10 -11 -1)]))
19:16	lazybot	⇒ false
19:16	hyPiRion	Hrm, didn't know there were hashing changes from 1.4.0 to 1.5.0
19:16	justin_smith	not that any of us should be using 1.4 at this point
19:16	justin_smith	1.6.0
19:16	amalloy	hyPiRion: there were some in 1.6, not 1.5
19:17	amalloy	afaik there weren't in 1.5, anyway
19:17	hyPiRion	amalloy: (apply = (mapv (comp seq set) [(range -10 11) (range 10 -11 -1)])) returns false on 1.5.1
19:17	amalloy	okay, and also in 1.4. so, both of those are different from 1.6, which supports my claim?
19:18	hyPiRion	oh, I mixed clojurebot and lazybot versions
19:24	Frozenlock	uh... what is this... I just changed my path, only to realize that the java in the /bin folder is a link to the JRE bin o_O
19:24	Frozenlock	(trying to get the JDK)
19:25	justin_smith	you can just replace the symlink to the JRE with a symlink to the JDK, no?
19:25	hyPiRion	Frozenlock: which OS are you using?
19:25	Frozenlock	that's the thing, where I was expecting the JDK java, I found a link to the JRE binary
19:25	Frozenlock	Ubuntu
19:25	justin_smith	on a debian based system you would use update-alternatives, and it would bea symlink to a symlink
19:25	justin_smith	Frozenlock: use update-alternatives
19:26	hyPiRion	Frozenlock: `sudo update-alternatives --config java`
19:26	justin_smith	https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Java
19:26	justin_smith	above link also covers manually installed java, so you can make sure it is visible to the alternatives system
19:26	amalloy	update-alternatives mystifies me. i don't know when i'm supposed to use it or how
19:26	Frozenlock	hyPiRion: That's what I used first, but I only saw JRE choices
19:27	hyPiRion	Frozenlock: did you install through apt-get/aptitude?
19:27	Frozenlock	I honestly don't remember. I might just reinstall everything
19:28	amalloy	Frozenlock: bathe your computer in acid to make sure the reinstall is complete
19:28	justin_smith	amalloy: picking defaults - it is done using a system of symlinks; you can manually replace the symlink with one pointing to a different target file, or use their weird semi-interactive CLI
19:28	Frozenlock	https://www.refheap.com/77448 <---- only JRE choices o_O
19:28	justin_smith	Frozenlock: you will know it was not installed via apt if it is not presented as an available alternative, my link above shows how to make it one
19:29	justin_smith	Frozenlock: OK, so use the instructions on my link above under "Oracle Java 7"
19:29	justin_smith	or just fuck it and replace /usr/bin/java with the symlink or binary of your choice
19:29	amalloy	Frozenlock: that's fine. my java bin lives in /usr/lib/jvm/java-7-openjdk-amd64/jre/bin/java
19:30	hyPiRion	Frozenlock: yeah, that's the JDK version. Try out `java -version` and see for yourself
19:30	Frozenlock	OpenJDK Runtime Environment (IcedTea 2.4.4) (7u51-2.4.4-0ubuntu0.12.04.2)
19:30	Frozenlock	OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM (build 24.45-b08, mixed mode)
19:30	Frozenlock
19:30	Frozenlock	arggg
19:31	rasmusto	kill -9gauge
19:31	justin_smith	Frozenlock: just tell the alternatives system that the jdk is the right default
19:31	justin_smith	hah
19:31	justin_smith	sometimes I miss xblast
19:32	seancorfield	(inc rasmusto)
19:32	lazybot	⇒ 8
19:32	seancorfield	That made me laugh out loud!
19:32	rasmusto	glad I could help :)
19:33	technomancy	update-alternatives is like if you took rvm and made it not suck and work for anything
19:36	Frozenlock	does JDK use a different name than java? (like I said, 'java' in the JDK is a link to the JRE java)
19:38	amalloy	i'm pretty sure the thing in .../jdk/jre/bin/java is what you want to use
19:39	justin_smith	Frozenlock: wait, the one inside the jdk folder is a symlink to the jre one?
19:39	Frozenlock	amalloy: I always used it without any problems. But I want to try jvisualvm and it insists on telling me that I'm using the JRE instead of the JDK.
19:39	Frozenlock	justin_smith: looks like it
19:40	amalloy	Frozenlock: no, that's just how the jdk is distributed
19:40	amalloy	mine looks that way too
19:40	amalloy	when you download a jdk, it comes with a jre
19:40	amalloy	and that's the same java
19:40	amalloy	it's not like it has a different java executable based on whether you want to pretend you're not using a jdk
19:43	justin_smith	Frozenlock: it could be the jvisualvm is reporting the wrong error, and you are calling a jvisualvm that is incompatible with the specific jvm?
19:44	Frozenlock	maybe
19:44	Frozenlock	I'm looking for vjisualvm similar problems
19:44	justin_smith	there should be a version of visualvm inside the jdk file heirarchy - maybe that is not the same one you are invoking?
19:47	Frozenlock	eh, it works if I launch with --jdkhome <my-JDK-path>. GOOD ENOUGH
19:47	blake	If I want "(defn my-func [parm1 parm2 parm3=nil] ..." such that parm3 is either passed in by the user or is nil, do I have to do a multi-arity setup?
19:48	amalloy	blake: you want to support multiple arities (2 or 3), so...
19:49	justin_smith	it is doable with (fn [parm1 parm2 & [parm3]] ...) which is also multi-arity, but in a different way
19:49	blake	amalloy: Just checkin'. It's not like there's only way to do stuff.
19:49	blake	justin_smith: Yeah, but doesn't that have other implications?
19:49	justin_smith	also means it will take and ignore any further arguments
19:50	blake	...because the remainder of the arguments are passed in a vector and I'm only taking the first element of any vector?
19:50	justin_smith	but is more concise than the explicit (fn ([p1 p2] ... ) ([p1 p2 p3] ...)) version
19:50	justin_smith	blake: exactly
19:51	blake	justin_smith: That makes me nervous because I'm still getting parens wrong enough to where the arity check probably helps me from tearing my hair out (as if I had hair).
19:52	blake	I guess it seems goofy to have a fn[parm1 parm2 parm3] followed by fn[parm1 parm2]=>(fn parm1 parm2 nil).
19:52	justin_smith	fair enough, then use the more verbose, more strict version
19:53	justin_smith	or add an explicit check (fn [a b c & [d :as rest]] (assert (< (count rest) 2))) but that seems a little silly
19:53	blake	Heh. Yeah.
19:53	amalloy	justin_smith: btw, you should really avoid doing comparisons on the result of count. you never know when infinite sequences will crop up
19:54	blake	ooh
19:54	amalloy	(< (count x) 2) => (not (next x))
19:54	justin_smith	amalloy: even in a rest arg ? I guess if someone called apply on something infinite?
19:54	amalloy	for sure
19:55	amalloy	you can (apply f (range)), no problem
19:55	justin_smith	oh, of course
20:21	coventry	blake: If you're getting parens wrong a lot of the time, it's probably worth taking half and hour or so to learn paredit mode, or whatever the equivalent is in your browser.
20:21	amalloy	coventry: such a badass he turns paredit on in his browser
20:21	coventry	s/browser/editor/. :-) Thanks.
20:25	dbasch	coventry: I’d say it’s worth it regardless. Nobody should be spending cognitive power balancing expressions.
20:27	coventry	Anyway, kovasb's session has paredit https://github.com/kovasb/session#paredit
20:35	dsrx	coventry: holy cow that is really cool. stepped away from clj/cljs for a few weeks and this comes out O_O
20:42	bbloom	coventry: i enjoy the namespace name for his paredit functionality
20:42	bbloom	it's in subpar/core.cljs :-)
20:45	coventry	Heh.
20:46	bbloom	$mail kovasb Hey man, you're paredit functionality is really ahem subpar.
20:46	lazybot	Message saved.
20:46	bbloom	d'oh i suck at spelling
20:47	amalloy	bbloom: you can $unmail kovasb, if you don't want him to know your a bad speller
20:47	bbloom	$unmail kovasb
20:47	lazybot	Deleted unread messages from bbloom to kovasb
20:47	bbloom	$mail kovasb Hey man, your paredit functionality is really ahem subpar.
20:47	lazybot	Message saved.
20:48	bbloom	amalloy: spared me having to write a bad follow up self-deprecating joke
20:48	amalloy	bbloom: i just wanted an excuse to use the wrong your in my response
20:48	bbloom	amalloy: haha i didn't even notice
20:49	bbloom	amalloy: this is my biggest debugging weakness. i'm so used to reading/writing error-filled nonsense on the internet... my eyeballs have built in auto correct
21:11	eraserhd	Anyone want to converse to try and find an elegant solution to a monad-like kind of problem?
21:12	eraserhd	The problem is this: I want to find a way to thread functions that deal with two values. 1st is the "state", which should thread much like -> threads through composable functions.
21:13	eraserhd	But the second is a list of "effects", which I want to hide most of the time.
21:19	weavejester	eraserhd: A list of effects? Effects on the state, or something else?
21:20	eraserhd	Effects are tokens that represent side-effectful things to be performed.
21:21	eraserhd	Examples: [:beep], [:write-file "/tmp/foo.txt" "hello"], ...
21:21	eraserhd	The idea is to make a composable way to collect these.
21:22	weavejester	That’s an interesting problem, and as you point out, very close to the state monad.
21:26	weavejester	eraserhd: I don’t have an immediate answer for you, unless you want to try one of the monad libraries
21:40	zspencer	is there something similar to apply but doesn't take a collection?
21:41	zspencer	I've got a map of keywords to functions and I want to execute the returned function inside of a threading operator
21:41	zspencer	(making an example)
21:42	eraserhd	zspencer: apply, but make the last argument []
21:43	eraserhd	Oh, you can't just ((:foo map)) in the threading operator?
21:44	zspencer	https://gist.github.com/zspencer/4d378e1d1d833041ccd5
21:44	zspencer	yeah, the last argument right now is a vector :(
21:44	zspencer	The larger context: https://github.com/zspencer/clj-warrior/blob/master/src/play.clj
21:44	zspencer	also, hi jason :)
21:45	alew	you could define (defn invoke [f & args] (apply f args))
21:45	zspencer	ALL MY FRIENDS ARE IN THE CLOJRUE CHANNEL
21:45	eraserhd	zspencer: We've been here for years. Glad you gave up ruby.
21:45	zspencer	alew: that's a reasonable thing; I just figured clojure would have something built in
21:46	zspencer	i.e in javascript func.call(context, foo, bar) vs func.apply(context, [foo, bar])
21:46	eraserhd	The form you're looking for is really just (func foo bar) in clojure, it's the threading macro that's screwing you up.
21:47	eraserhd	IMHO
21:47	zspencer	Yea, I switched to the threading operator beacause it seemed clearer
21:48	zspencer	but maybe I should consider composition for the steps
21:48	zspencer	i.e. "take the players turn, then the ais turn"
21:48	zspencer	All my code is bad and I feel bad
22:00	eraserhd	zspencer :/
22:08	hlprmnky	zspencer: the best piece of advice I’ve gotten so far about the threading operator is this, from a code review I was fortunate enough to have Hugo Duncan do of some bad code I’d written - he said, and I paraphrase: What I usually do is get everything working the way I want first, and then go through and look to add threading in a second pass, to make things concise
22:22	TravisD	Does anyone know of any libraries that allow you to manage your own random number generator, etc?
22:23	zspencer	hlprmnky: that's a reasonable thing.
22:37	bob2	TravisD, as in with a specific seed? http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/util/Random.html
22:38	TravisD	bob2: Ah, yeah, I keep forgetting that all of java is available
22:43	TravisD	I was also hoping to have some choice of the method used
22:44	TravisD	and for some snazzy clojure interface :)
22:44	zspencer	hlprmnky / eraserhd here's what I wound up with: https://github.com/zspencer/clj-warrior/blob/master/src/play.clj#L60
22:56	coventry	Is there any test.check code out there already for producing a lot of random deeply nested structures. Ideally with lots of structural sharing, but I can probably add that in myself.
23:25	owl-v-	how do i add v elements to vv one by one? (let [v [1 2 3]] (let [vv []] (map #(conj vv %) v)))
23:26	amalloy	owl-v-: you can't do that with map, because clojure data structures are immutable. instead, you would use reduce, something that builds up a single result from multiple input items
23:27	amalloy	or in the specific case of conj, you can just use into: (into [] v) yields a vector containing all the items in v
23:30	bodie_	hi all, not sure if I'm doing something stupid or what -- do I need to be mindful of using hyphens in namespaces / in paths in my project tree with lein?
23:30	bodie_	I keep getting a not found error
23:31	koreth_	What's the best way to do the equivalent of "rest" on a sorted set without losing the sortedness? (rest (sorted-set 0 1 2)) returns a plain old sequence.
23:31	koreth_	,(rest (sorted-set 0 1 2))
23:31	amalloy	yes. namespaces want -, and the path needs _ instead
23:31	clojurebot	(1 2)
23:31	koreth_	,(sorted-set 1 2)
23:31	clojurebot	#{1 2}
23:31	amalloy	disj
23:32	koreth_	Thanks
23:32	bodie_	http://paste.ubuntu.com/7280810/
23:32	bodie_	I see
23:32	bodie_	so, use _ in the path?
23:49	amalloy	yes, bodie_