#clojure – 2014-02-28

2014-02-28

11:11	broquaint	Thanks, edbond :)
11:12	broquaint	ww
11:14	roybatty	anybody that uses Cursive(intellij) know how to set up a keyboard shortcut to switch from current editor window to the repl and back again. kind of like you ctrl-tab between two files
12:01	michaniskin	do leiningen templates support any form of composition?
12:02	michaniskin	like `lein new [template1 template2 template3] my-composed-project
12:02	johnjelinek	hihi all
12:02	hyPiRion	michaniskin: how would they compose together? What do you do if both templates creates some specific file?
12:03	gfredericks	lein new rails spring django arduino billing-app
12:03	michaniskin	hyPiRion: yeah this is why i'm asking :)
12:04	michaniskin	hyPiRion: i'm looking for prior art for a project i'm working on
12:04	johnjelinek	got a question, I have a future that makes an HTTP request with clj-http, and it returns a 401: "java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: clojure.lang.ExceptionInfo: clj-http: status 401" -- I want to catch this
12:04	gfredericks	johnjelinek: clj-http has an option for not throwing
12:04	hyPiRion	michaniskin: Ah. Well, lein templates doesn't compose, if that answered your question :p
12:04	technomancy	michaniskin: it's a neat idea, but the fact that templates take arbitrary args makes it a bit trickier
12:04	johnjelinek	gfredericks: can I catch though?
12:04	johnjelinek	I want (fn [req-fut] (instance? java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException (try @req-fut (catch Exception e (.getCause e)))))
12:04	johnjelinek	I thought this would return true
12:04	johnjelinek	but it's false
12:04	technomancy	michaniskin: worth pursuing though I think
12:05	dakrone	johnjelinek: you need to put the try/catch inside of your future if you want to do that
12:05	michaniskin	technomancy: i am thinking about it for what would be equivalent to maybe a combination of profiles and plugins, like you'd use the templates to set up your build process by composing different plugins and such
12:05	clojurebot	excusez-moi
12:06	johnjelinek	dakrone: I think I misspoke, I want it to return true
12:06	johnjelinek	not false
12:06	johnjelinek	if I change to (instance? Exception ... it returns true
12:07	michaniskin	technomancy: like if you're setting up a new clojurescript project, but you want to have a ring server and maybe garden css compiler, too
12:07	johnjelinek	but I want it to return true when the exception is java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException
12:07	dakrone	johnjelinek: also, just one .getCause may not be the exception you want, you probably want (root-cause e)
12:07	johnjelinek	or, whatever it is when it returns 401
12:07	slagyr	ClojureScript question: It is possible to disable this warning? "WARNING: clojure.core/==, all arguments must be numbers"
12:07	hyPiRion	michaniskin: wouldn't that mean they need to merge the project.clj?
12:07	dakrone	johnjelinek: it's far easier to use {:ignore-exceptions true} in clj-http itself and handle the 401
12:08	johnjelinek	dakrone: ok, let me try that
12:08	michaniskin	hyPiRion: well i'm not using lein specifically, i'm using boot, so things compose differently there
12:08	michaniskin	hyPiRion: but yes, they'd end up merging a file in pretty much the same way
12:09	hyPiRion	michaniskin: right, gotcha.
12:09	hyPiRion	Hrm, I guess it would be interesting to look into at least.
12:09	johnjelinek	dakrone: do I apply {:ignore-exceptions true} on the client/get?
12:10	dakrone	johnjelinek: yes
12:10	johnjelinek	dakrone: because it's not ignoring
12:10	michaniskin	hyPiRion: i wonder if there are other build tools i should look at that might have such a thing?
12:10	dakrone	johnjelinek: what version of clj-http? (also, it might be :ignore-exceptions? instead of :ignore-exceptions)
12:10	dakrone	in 0.9.0 I unified the booleans so I don't have to remember whether it ends in ? or not
12:10	technomancy	michaniskin: this could go hand-in-hand with the proposed programmatic modifications of project.clj
12:11	johnjelinek	dakrone: both didn't work
12:11	johnjelinek	dakrone: I'm using 0.7.9
12:11	hyPiRion	michaniskin: hm, I'm pretty sure there's nothing for Clojure, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were some JS build tool which did that somehow
12:11	dakrone	johnjelinek: "didn't work"? didn't throw an exception? didn't give you the right response? can you gist your code somewhere?
12:12	technomancy	michaniskin: you could say "to make a template composable, return a function that modifies a project.clj instead of simply writing the bytes to disk" or something
12:13	michaniskin	technomancy: are there plans to make project.clj into a program instead of a declarative data file?
12:13	hyPiRion	Or, you know, it could be something different, but closely related to templates.
12:13	hyPiRion	michaniskin: it is already a program
12:13	hyPiRion	:p
12:14	michaniskin	:) you know what i mean
12:14	technomancy	actually I don't think I do?
12:15	hyPiRion	I don't think I do either
12:15	michaniskin	no worries, i think the answer is "no" :)
12:15	Anderkent	michaniskin: if you put (println "BOO!") on top of you rproject.clj, it'll print boo
12:16	Anderkent	it can't get more programmy than that
12:17	ToBeReplaced	assuming answer is no but quick question -- can i (go-loop [] (alt! ch (recur)))?
12:17	technomancy	Anderkent: well it could if we calculated some fibbonacci
12:17	technomancy	that is empirically the programmiest you can get
12:17	Anderkent	I thought that was fizzbuzz?\
12:18	rasmusto	~fizzbuzz
12:18	clojurebot	No entiendo
12:18	michaniskin	hahaha
12:18	johnjelinek	dakrone: didn't work means still threw an exception, but didn't return true
12:18	johnjelinek	I'll pastebin something up for you
12:18	hyPiRion	michaniskin: I mean, https://github.com/hyPiRion/hello-swearjure/blob/master/project.clj is a legal project.clj file.
12:19	technomancy	man, not even an nsfw warning or anything?
12:19	hyPiRion	sorry
12:19	technomancy	hehe
12:20	hyPiRion	that is nsfpcp (Not safe for professional clojure programmers)
12:20	technomancy	not safe for people who take themselves too seriously
12:20	rasmusto	i am a software professional
12:21	Anderkent	I'm dissapointed by the meta ns-map
12:21	clgv	hyPiRion: swearjure seems great for obfuscation ;) :P
12:21	hyPiRion	Anderkent: I accept pull requests
12:21	technomancy	did you know the word "amateur" comes from the same root as "amour"? in essence, doing it out of love rather than simply in order to feed yourself.
12:21	ambrosebs	hyPiRion: holy crap! :)
12:22	technomancy	so when taken literally, not all that mutually exclusive with professional
12:22	hyPiRion	Anderkent: the core.clj uses only `ns-map` though. Is that okay for you?
12:22	Anderkent	hyPiRion: 4 times better
12:23	hyPiRion	ambrosebs: Now you made me think about using dynalint on that monster. Hrmm...
12:24	johnjelinek	dakrone: http://pastebin.com/9TvuvEvp
12:24	johnjelinek	what I expect is (true true true ...)
12:25	ambrosebs	hyPiRion: I have zero idea how swearjure works. Does it rely on implementation details of Clojure?
12:26	Anderkent	hyPiRion: you generate that code, right? right?
12:29	hyPiRion	ambrosebs: Heh... yeah, heavily. It crashes if the hash map order in (ns-map 'clojure.core) is changed.
12:31	hyPiRion	Anderkent: Well, sort of. I could probably generate it now if I wrote a generator for it, but most of it was just a lot of copypaste
12:31	ambrosebs	hyPiRion: LOL
12:31	ambrosebs	hyPiRion: that's amazing
12:31	dakrone	johnjelinek: https://gist.github.com/dakrone/01c46b660465356bf0d2
12:31	hyPiRion	I tried to create a generator for it in the beginning, but the amount of argument calls made the JVM crash, so I had to do some compression by hand
12:32	dakrone	johnjelinek: my fault, it's actually :throw-exceptions, not :ignore-exceptions
12:33	hyPiRion	ambrosebs: It's a bit sad actually, because it's not that easy to upgrade from 1.5.1 to 1.6 :p
12:34	johnjelinek	dakrone: success!
12:34	johnjelinek	thanks
12:34	ambrosebs	hyPiRion: I'll bet
12:35	dakrone	johnjelinek: you're welcome!
12:36	johnjelinek	dakrone: now, if I wanted to check it for the 401 to know the reason why it wasn't successful, I should do what?
12:36	johnjelinek	I guess just read the @req-fut and parse?
12:37	dakrone	johnjelinek: instead of client/success? you can just do (:status @ret-fut) and see the HTTP status yourself
12:44	johnjelinek	dakrone: awesome, thanks
12:44	ToBeReplaced	using the alt! macro for the first time, and i'm confused; (go (alt! x ([v] v)) is returning a RuntimeException Unable to resolve symbol: v
12:45	ToBeReplaced	to me, that appears to be the example in the docs
12:45	ToBeReplaced	i wanted to say "read from the channel and return the val"... how do i express that correctly?
12:46	seangrove	dnolen_: Just about finished up with the ReactDevTools fix
12:46	dnolen_	seangrove: SWEET
12:47	seangrove	dnolen_: Are you thinking that the name of the component should be passed in along with {:opts ...} etc.?
12:47	dnolen_	seangrove: no will be a protocol IDisplayName
12:47	seangrove	dnolen_: Got it, sounds good
12:48	dnolen_	seangrove: I can add it now, of course won't do anything unless you use a React build from master.
12:48	seangrove	dnolen_: Oh, I was adding it to a local check of Om right now, the ReactDevTools side is already finished
12:48	seangrove	I have it coming out hard-coded, was just adding the protocol. Happy to let you do it if you'd like though ;)
12:49	dnolen_	seangrove: I can do it, it's a simple change
12:49	ToBeReplaced	andddd my issue was alt! not imported, so the go macro failing ;)
12:49	seangrove	dnolen_: Ok, sounds good. I'll check with the React people about the code changes. Let me know when yours is pushed so I can test it out locally
12:50	seangrove	Doesn't need to be published, I'll just clone master
12:52	dnolen_	seangrove: https://github.com/swannodette/om/commit/f50fb2b35cd4326478ea8937eae8c0d1b3cd9bf0
12:53	seangrove	dnolen_: Ok, testing it out...
12:54	dnolen_	seangrove: oops typo fixing
12:54	dnolen_	seangrove: fixed
13:00	seangrove	dnolen_: Look about right? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/412963/Screenshots/cx.png
13:02	dnolen_	seangrove: looks good to me, would be nice if you could suppress Om private props
13:02	dnolen_	seangrove: but already looks useful
13:03	seangrove	dnolen_: I'll as about how to do that
13:03	dnolen_	seangrove: might be out of scope since technically that's the idea behind props
13:04	seangrove	dnolen_: But they show up on the right-hand side I think
13:04	dnolen_	seangrove: and we use props differently, but worth bringing up
13:04	seangrove	which I cut out... One second
13:04	mr-foobar	i'm using enlive. (enlive-html/append "<div>some content</div>") is escaping and giving me <div ... any option that I can stop the escaping ?
13:05	dnolen_	seangrove: heh, actually probably the simplest thing would be don't show props with leading __
13:05	dnolen_	seangrove: React can't display ClojureScript data structures anyway
13:05	seangrove	dnolen_: Something weird is up with my local RDT, but it's find to have them show up in the list http://dl.dropbox.com/u/412963/Screenshots/cy.png
13:06	dnolen_	seangrove: anyways, this is useful - but I think doing our own instrumentation in the end will be more powerful
13:06	dnolen_	seangrove: React Dev Tools are never going to be able to display CLJS data properly
13:06	dnolen_	seangrove: well not never, but just seems out of scope
13:07	seangrove	dnolen_: I agree, I think this will go away eventually, btu for the time being it's fast and very nice. Especially for trying to track down these damn 'unique keys' warning Sablono seems wont to put out
13:12	isaacbw	shouldn't clojure-mode have special indentation for macros?
13:12	technomancy	isaacbw: which macros?
13:13	isaacbw	technomancy: any macro. I know that common lisp's SLIME treats macros differently with indentation
13:13	technomancy	isaacbw: it's technically possible, but it's not a good idea
13:14	technomancy	indentation rules that change depending on whether you're connected or not are kinda nuts
13:14	isaacbw	technomancy: I see, okay
13:15	technomancy	if your macros need special indentation, call them with-foo
13:15	rasmusto	well, indentation is different for def*, right? I guess that doesn't require connection :)
13:15	technomancy	rasmusto: right
13:16	technomancy	having clojure-mode depend on cider would be a circular dependency anyway
13:16	Bronsa	technomancy: is it just me or with-bindings is indented wrongly by clojure-mode?
13:17	technomancy	Bronsa: not afaict
13:17	seangrove	technomancy: A lot of the setups for emacs recommend custom indentation for compojure routes as well
13:17	Anderkent	it's pretty easy to give things the 'defun indent mode - I used to do it for midjes facts.
13:18	Anderkent	just check in the relevant configs :P
13:18	technomancy	seangrove: yeah, some kind of portable declaration for that would be neat
13:18	technomancy	as long as it can be determined statically
13:18	technomancy	getting it from nrepl is just wrong though
13:18	Bronsa	technomancy: .. weird, now it gets indented correctly for me too. Pretty sure it was indenting like a function before though
13:19	technomancy	you'd have different indentation depending not on whether you were connected, but on which namespaces have been compiled so far
13:20	seangrove	technomancy: I agree with the static requirement
13:20	Bronsa	looks like with-bindings indentation starts to get messed up after I connect with slime :/
13:21	isaacbw	does anyone know why (put-clojure-indent 'GET 1) isn't working for (GET within (defroutes? Is it because it's within (defroutes?
13:21	isaacbw	)))
13:22	isaacbw	oh, wait
13:23	isaacbw	ah, I needed to do (put-clojure indent 'GET 2) based on how I was formatting it
13:23	isaacbw	is there more fine-tuned indentation control, for example only do this for GET within a defroutes?
13:25	amalloy	isaacbw: that sounds kinda like backtracking indent, such as for deftype and reify, but i don't think you really want to do it anyway
13:27	amalloy	Bronsa: even in the source buffer? the slime repl doesn't follow the clojure indent rules, but it shouldn't be able to break the indentation of your source files
13:28	Bronsa	amalloy: yeah, not in the repl
13:28	amalloy	wild
13:29	amalloy	you can always try M-x customize-variable clojure-defun-indent
13:29	Bronsa	amalloy: I'm not 100% sure it's slime's fault though, it worked fine after connecting for ~30 seconds
13:39	isaacbw	oh hey, the compojure docs list the commands for proper indentation. That could have been easier than trying to figure it out myself :P
13:40	seangrove	technomancy: LT will solve all of our problems. Clojure and proper data structures all the way down.
13:40	TravisD	Any top-level var with metadeta ^{:private true} will not be exported?
13:41	amalloy	wellll, "exported" is a weird word, TravisD. nothing is ever exported, since vars stay in their namespace
13:41	`cbp	I don't know if it's just because of webkit's bad handling of international keyboards but LT is nearly unusable for me =(
13:41	TravisD	Hmm, I guess it wont be available from other namespaces?
13:41	amalloy	but when you require a namespace with a private var, no mapping is created from the symbol naming it to the var itself
13:42	amalloy	you can always access the var anyway, if you want, using the var syntax
13:42	TravisD	Ah, what's the var syntax?
13:42	technomancy	seangrove: heeh
13:42	amalloy	&[(var clojure.core/inc) #'inc]
13:43	technomancy	`cbp: shouldn't that be an OS concern?
13:43	amalloy	god, lazybot has been so unreliable recently
13:43	amalloy	,[(var clojure.core/inc) #'inc]
13:43	clojurebot	[#'clojure.core/inc #'clojure.core/inc]
13:44	hiredman	~clojurebot
13:44	clojurebot	clojurebot is highly unlikely
13:44	rasmusto	~lazybot
13:44	clojurebot	lazybot is echo ~lazybot
13:45	`cbp	technomancy: I think LT uses keyCodes given to it by webkit and on international keyboards that get's all f'ed up (the keyCode for [, ], {, } are the same etc). So I guess it's partly LTs fault for trusting those keyCodes and having no engineers working on it with international keyboards.
13:45	TravisD	amalloy: cool, I'll need to look at that some more. Anyways, you can use defn- to define a private function. Is there a more general way to define private vars without explicitly adding the metadata yourself?
13:45	`cbp	Also it has some pretty annoying common bugs like it suddenly starts registering my keypresses on a tab that isn't the one i'm looking at and I'm not sure if that's because of the same reason
13:46	seangrove	dnolen_: Is seb suggesting we add a check to see if the prop is starting with "__", or that we list all the properties we don't want shown?
13:47	patchwork	I have an uberjar that works fine locally, but on heroku returns from (wrap-resource "public") on a request with {:uri "/"}… ?
13:47	patchwork	Anyone seen this before?
13:47	patchwork	It is as if (wrap-resource) is matching a file with no name?
13:47	patchwork	Very strange
13:48	justin_smith	patchwork: wait, what does it return for /?
13:48	technomancy	patchwork: yeah, that's a known bug in older ring versions
13:48	patchwork	It should return the home page
13:48	patchwork	technomancy: Ahh… okay
13:48	patchwork	I keep upgrading ring… apparently I am still behind!
13:49	patchwork	Or maybe some dependency is pulling in an old version
13:49	patchwork	Thanks technomancy
13:49	technomancy	patchwork: https://github.com/ring-clojure/ring/pull/97
13:54	pyrtsa	`cbp: AFAIK, LightTable uses Mousetrap (http://craig.is/killing/mice) for handling key bindings, and it only supports the US keyboard layout. Bad, bad. :(
13:55	`cbp	Hmm yeah..
13:55	`cbp	Well it's still pretty nice what they've managed in a year or so
13:55	sdegutis	lazybot where art thou
13:56	pyrtsa	https://github.com/ccampbell/mousetrap/issues/2
13:57	pyrtsa	`cbp: Indeed. And I've managed to make many key bindings work on my Finnish keyboard layout, regardless of Mousetrap's limitations. Had to do a few tricks there, though.
14:00	pyrtsa	`cbp: In particular, `"alt-[" [(:editor.open-pair "[")]`, `"alt-shift-[" [(:editor.open-pair "{")]`, and similar treatment for the `]` key made brackets and braces work on my keyboard.
14:02	`cbp	Yeah I had to remap a bunch of alt-* keys because I use them to type some characters and light table uses them as shortcuts :-P
14:02	`cbp	But that's no biggie
14:03	pyrtsa	Yeah, I just disabled pretty much all of the alt-* bindings. I use alt all the time for not-so-special characters like @, $, [, ], { and }.
14:03	`cbp	although that makes them not register as an actual [ or something. So there is no automatic ] put by the editor
14:04	pyrtsa	My trick above does exactly that.
14:05	`cbp	OH!
14:07	`cbp	hehe I used alt-[ and now I can't type {, gonna have to make that combo alt-shift-[ do it. As you did I guess
14:07	pyrtsa	Here: https://gist.github.com/pyrtsa/9277551
14:11	`cbp	Thanks, haha. "You use the [ and { keys to write [ and shift on the [ key (not the { key) to type {"
14:12	pyrtsa	On the FI keyboard, [ is alt-8, { is alt-shift-8, ] is alt-8 and } is alt-shift-9. That's why.
14:12	pyrtsa	] = alt-9, of course.
14:13	pyrtsa	And parentheses are shift-8 and shift-9. Much different from the en_US, unfortunately.
14:14	technomancy	hack your layout; unshifted parens are awesome =)
14:14	`cbp	Yeah it doesn't work for me unfortunately, my [] and {} are in different positions =(
14:15	pyrtsa	Which layout are you?
14:16	gtrak	what's up with lazybot?
14:16	pyrtsa	technomancy: I bet. But believe or not, 30 years of this layout does leave you with some muscular memory as well.
14:16	amalloy	gtrak: he's having some kind of connection problem. can't log into freenode
14:17	gtrak	I had that yesterday
14:17	pyrtsa	(Or well, maybe 23 years since I started typing.)
14:17	`cbp	spanish-iso
14:17	gtrak	7070 was broken on a few servers for some reason, 7000 worked on card.freenode
14:17	technomancy	pyrtsa: https://github.com/technomancy/atreus
14:17	gtrak	maybe related
14:18	gtrak	I'm on dickson now, actually
14:19	gtrak	looks like they're having a DDoS attack
14:19	gtrak	https://twitter.com/freenodestaff
14:19	technomancy	sadface
14:20	technomancy	they changed their organizational structure so they can't accept donations anymore either
14:20	patchwork	Hmm… ring-json is pulling in an old version of ring-core
14:20	`cbp	Fortunately I will be getting an english keyboard soon and I will recover the blissful ignorance where everything open source works that I gained when I moved away from Windows =)
14:20	patchwork	Do I need to fork ring-json to upgrade? Funny it is living on its own rather than part of ring like the other middlewares
14:20	pyrtsa	technomancy: The thing you might find hard to believe is, we do need some "special" characters (in my case, ä and ö) almost as often as you need your a and o. Of course not as much when programming but the context switches between coding-oriented and prose-oriented key layouts do have their price.
14:21	amalloy	patchwork: there are jillions of middlewares. for them all to live in ring would be not just silly but impossible
14:21	technomancy	pyrtsa: I'm not saying to use mine, just to take what you have and make it suit your own needs better
14:21	patchwork	amalloy: Right, but this one is pretty standard
14:22	patchwork	Forking...
14:22	gfredericks	patchwork: you can normally override indirect deps if you need to
14:22	pyrtsa	I'm pretty fine with mine atm. And now I'm even fine with LightTable, once I found my hack to support the FI layout in it. But it could be better.
14:22	gfredericks	so as long as it's compatible with the newer version...
14:22	`cbp	Although I'm not entirely sure how the computer would respond with two different keyboar layouts..
14:22	patchwork	gfredericks: Ah good call
14:44	johnjelinek	hihi all
14:45	johnjelinek	so, to preface: I haven't read the little lisper -- so, my question is prolly obvious -- but how do I make a function in the REPL that repeats itself every 5 seconds?
14:45	mmitchell	I have a protocol and a record. For the record, I'd like to add a private function, I'm guessing that doesn't work with protocols, so I instead though a letfn over the defrecordr -- dang, that doesn't work either. Is there a way to around this?
14:45	johnjelinek	here's my attempt: (def repeat-me (future (do (Thread/sleep 5000) (println "Repeating") repeat-me)))
14:46	johnjelinek	but this does not repeat
14:46	amalloy	mmitchell: just don't attach the function to the record. define a function that takes your record in and does whatever
14:47	RickInAtlanta	johnjelinek: you could do it with core.async
14:47	johnjelinek	RickInAtlanta: isn't that a little overkill?
14:47	amalloy	yes :P
14:47	mmitchell	amalloy: right yeah, that's definitely the most straight forward way
14:47	mmitchell	I'll do that
14:47	amalloy	(future (loop [] ... (recur)))
14:48	amalloy	although i sorta expect this experiment of having another thread doing things to your repl indefinitely to go kinda Sorceror's Apprentice
14:48	johnjelinek	??
14:48	clojurebot	BOT FIGHT!!!!!111
14:49	sdegutis	lol
14:49	amalloy	i mean you'll accidentally have more than one such thread and/or be unable to stop them
14:50	amalloy	$google sorceror's apprentice wikipedia
14:50	johnjelinek	(def repeat-me (future (loop [] (do (Thread/sleep 5000) (println "Repeating")) (recur)))),
14:50	johnjelinek	works:)
14:50	amalloy	oh right. no lazybot
14:50	amalloy	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sorcerer's_Apprentice
14:51	johnjelinek	ooooh, the disney fantasia story
14:51	amalloy	sure, although much older than that, of course
14:51	johnjelinek	right
14:51	johnjelinek	so -- on every recur, does this spawn a new thread?
14:51	amalloy	a socratic answer: how do you spawn a new thread?
14:52	johnjelinek	(future
14:52	amalloy	and do you (future in the loop?
14:52	johnjelinek	no
14:52	amalloy	tada!
14:52	johnjelinek	so, I have my answer :)
14:57	janiczek	Hi, if I wanted to do some kind of logger / visualizer for core.async processes and channels, would I need to somehow hack on core.async itself? Or would hooking it from outside be enough? (I am looking into Rackets future-visualizer and Racket has logging baked right inside...)
14:58	amalloy	janiczek: you might take a look at the graphviz stuff in lamina. i don't know how applicable it is to core.async, but it's pretty cool
14:58	technomancy	I doubt there's anything as nice as Racket's
14:59	ztellman	interesting: http://docs.racket-lang.org/future-visualizer/index.html
14:59	ztellman	didn't know about this
14:59	janiczek	Thats exactly it.
15:04	sdegutis	Anyone in here love Docker?
15:09	TravisD	I'm always shocked by how expensive it is to print things
15:11	bbloom	TravisD: yup.
15:11	amalloy	like...because printer ink costs thousands of dollars per gallon, or because sending strings to your repl takes a while?
15:11	bbloom	amalloy: both.
15:11	TravisD	Oh, hehe, I was talking about sending strings to the repl :)
15:14	sveri	hi there, i tried to unit test the lib-noir validation rules, however, when i call one method from the test i get this error: Exception in thread "main" java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.Var$Unbound cannot be cast to java.util.concurrent.Future Any ideas how one can test the validation rules?
15:16	amalloy	,@clojure.core/unquote
15:16	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.Var$Unbound cannot be cast to java.util.concurrent.Future>
15:17	TimMc	TravisD: Printing, or display on terminal? :-P
15:17	amalloy	sveri: you probably have to use with-noir or something. i remember there being an atom you have to bind dynamically
15:17	amalloy	TimMc: too late by miles
15:17	TravisD	TimMc: displaying in cider :)
15:17	TimMc	https://stackoverflow.com/questions/21947452/why-is-printing-b-dramatically-slower-than-printing
15:17	amalloy	that question was neat
15:18	TimMc	amalloy: No, by printing I meant just output.
15:18	TimMc	Should have been more explicit. :-)
15:20	TravisD	woah, that's actually surprising
15:23	sveri	amalloy: thank you, there is something like that in the noir sources, i give it a try
15:31	sveri	amalloy: awesome, it works :-) thank you once again
15:38	johnjelinek	do any of you use LT?
15:38	`cbp	johnjelinek: ye
15:38	johnjelinek	does it make you crazy that CTRL+F doesn't move the cursor forward?
15:38	johnjelinek	it does a fuzzy file search instead
15:38	johnjelinek	drives me crazy (since 0.6.1)
15:39	TravisD	johnjelinek: The key bindings are customizable, no?
15:39	johnjelinek	I didn't see how to configure the cursor movement
15:39	TravisD	ah, I don't know much about it
15:39	johnjelinek	but also, I don't know what I'd change my fuzzy file finder to instead
15:42	TravisD	There used to be a way to enable emacs bindings, but I couldn't get it to work when I tried out LT
15:43	johnjelinek	yea, I still can't get it to work (emacs bindings)
15:43	johnjelinek	the plugin seems incomplete
15:47	TravisD	Actually, I'm noticing that ctrl + f actually moves my cursor forward. I'm on a mac though
15:47	johnjelinek	what version? I'm on a mac too
15:47	TravisD	0.6.4
15:47	johnjelinek	me too
15:47	TravisD	hm, strange
15:48	TravisD	I think my config is also the default that it ships with
15:48	johnjelinek	mine too, for the most-part
15:48	johnjelinek	when I go to the file menu, it shows ^F for navigator
15:48	johnjelinek	but I didn't set that
15:48	TravisD	for me it is Command + O
15:49	johnjelinek	cmd+O does it for me too
15:49	johnjelinek	:\|
15:49	kevinfish	anybody got any comments on using Heroku?
15:49	Raynes	It is expensive for open source projects.
15:49	Raynes	That's my comments.
15:50	johnjelinek	lol
15:50	Raynes	Well, for non-trivial open source projects.
15:50	Raynes	For example, need ssl support? Fo-ged-aboud-eeeeet
15:50	kevinfish	Raynes: k, thx.
15:50	gtrak	pssh ssl
15:50	Raynes	But it's a great platform.
15:50	Raynes	I host tryclojure, fwiw.
15:50	kevinfish	Raynes: IOW, it gets expensive fast?
15:51	kevinfish	Raynes: you host it on there?
15:51	Raynes	Yes.
15:51	Raynes	That project is completely free because I don't need ssl or databases or anything that would cost monies.
15:51	johnjelinek	question: I have a collection of futures, some have completed, some are pending -- how do I filter the ones that have completed so I can only deref those?
15:52	johnjelinek	I was thinking (filter (map future-done? my-futures))
15:52	johnjelinek	but that no worky
15:52	Raynes	um
15:52	DomKM	johnjelinek: realized? I think
15:52	gtrak	deref takes a timeout argument
15:52	Raynes	(filter future-done? my-futures)
15:53	Raynes	realized? is more generic, but also should work
15:53	kevinfish	anyone got any good ideas on a decent, cheap database backend that acts somewhat like datomic, in that you are not really devolving into something like SQL query language, but are pretty much just dealing with clojure containers as if they were resident in memory?
15:53	johnjelinek	Raynes: nice
15:53	johnjelinek	I was close
15:53	gtrak	aww, tryclj doesn't like futures
15:53	gtrak	,(deref (future 3) 0 0)
15:53	clojurebot	#<SecurityException java.lang.SecurityException: no threads please>
15:53	gtrak	jeez
15:53	Raynes	Hahaha
15:53	Raynes	I don't even remember writing that error message.
15:53	Raynes	Nice.
15:54	gtrak	,(deref (promise) 0 0)
15:54	clojurebot	0
15:54	gtrak	,(deref (promise) 0 :not-yet)
15:54	clojurebot	:not-yet
15:54	hiredman	kevinfish: core.logic has the new pldb stuff
15:56	kevinfish	hiredman: ok, nice. What would be the advantage of datomic over that, say?
15:56	hiredman	kevinfish: in what context?
15:57	kevinfish	hiredman: for like building web applications that may grow in use fairly rapidly
15:57	hiredman	core.logic is open source and free, which is nice, core.logic isn't strictly datalog
15:57	hiredman	core.logic is a database though
15:57	hiredman	er
15:57	hiredman	isn't
15:59	kevinfish	hiredman: I was looking at plob (persistent lisp objects) for something like that back when I was playing with common lisp. Pretty much normal lisp data except you could flag which were "persistent" and which elements had indexes on them, etc... Otherwise, it pretty much gave the illusion you were dealing with in-ram data
15:59	hiredman	kevinfish: there is nothing like that
16:00	hiredman	the closest you might come is some kind of datagrid like infinispan, etc, which would use java serialization to store stuff
16:02	kevinfish	hiredman: k, thx. Unfortunately, I know lisp a fair bit, clojure a little, and java almost none.
16:02	johnjelinek	dakrone: you around?
16:03	johnjelinek	dakrone: even with {:throw-exceptions false} I still get exceptions in the scenario where I get "Connection reset"
16:03	hiredman	kevinfish: I would recomend using any of a number of fine sql databases then
16:04	kevinfish	hiredman: I don't know that very much either :(
16:04	hiredman	now is your chance then
16:05	kevinfish	hiredman: ya, oh joy.
16:05	hiredman	clojure data tends to map to sql very well, maps are just rows in a table
16:06	hiredman	filter is select, etc
16:07	hiredman	I not familiar with how plob works, but generally those kind of systems are heavy on define lots of new types with some attributes so the serialization whatever can stick them in the right place
16:08	hiredman	clojure tends to de-emphasize the creation of custom types, relying on just generic maps to carry associated data around, which maps well to the relational world
16:20	zachmassia	I'm testing out the austin brepl sample, and I have a java process using ~1G ram and 25% CPU and it's also caused emacs to use 25% CPU
16:20	zachmassia	Should I be launching it through a command line repl instead of cider?
16:28	dsrx	shouldn't matter
16:29	dsrx	do you have some sort of autocomplete mode enabled in cider, like company or auto-complete?
16:29	dsrx	those can wreak havoc in a piggiebacked REPL
16:30	zachmassia	dsrx: Yep, auto-complete
16:31	amalloy	i want an eastwood rule that looks for (apply str (interpose x ys)), and murders the person who wrote it
16:31	zachmassia	Not sure what kind of magic that sample project is doing, but I copied all the relevant code into my project and get a nullpointerexception on the (def repl-env ...) command
16:31	technomancy	amalloy: I think you're stuck with http://p.hagelb.org/punch.png
16:32	zachmassia	I'll disable auto-complete and see if that helps. About to just give up on the brepl lol
16:33	abp	amalloy: technomancy usb rocket launcher hooked
16:35	gtrak	amalloy: one of the few uses I've had for interpose.
16:35	dsrx	zachmassia: have you required cemerick.austin.repls and cemerick.austin at your repl?
16:35	dsrx	(the clojure side of it)
16:35	TEttinger	##(apply str (interleave ["Hi" "amalloy" "how" "are" "you"] (repeat 5 " ")))
16:35	lazybot	⇒ "Hi amalloy how are you "
16:35	TEttinger	even worse?
16:36	amalloy	TEttinger: i feel like if someone goes to that kind of effort just to get a wrong answer, they already have enough problems
16:36	zachmassia	dsrx: For the sample I didn't have to, it just worked. But in my project, I tried with and without requiring those namespaces and it was the same result.
16:36	amalloy	gtrak: joke?
16:36	gtrak	actually no. I've only used interpose, like twice.
16:36	technomancy	interpose: great for getting amalloy to want to kill you
16:37	amalloy	but like, that shouldn't be one of the times you used it
16:37	dsrx	well in the sample project IIRC the repl starts you in a namespace that's already required those namespaces
16:37	johnjelinek	out of memory error? :\| do I need to be manually killing my futures when the finish?
16:37	johnjelinek	they*
16:37	TEttinger	true
16:37	dsrx	like browser-sample.whatever.something
16:37	gtrak	heh, yes, yes it was. I learned string/join, so I stopped using interpose.
16:37	gtrak	can't think of other times I've had to use it.
16:37	TEttinger	johnjelinek, how many futures did you create?
16:38	johnjelinek	36000
16:38	Raynes	I distinctly remember arguments with amalloy about join vs apply str interpose when I was like 16.
16:38	johnjelinek	they're making async web requests
16:38	gtrak	in a 24kloc code-base, we use it once, and we should use string/join.
16:38	gtrak	so... that's my point.
16:38	TEttinger	I have a feeling that's too many at one time, but it probably depends on what it's running on
16:38	johnjelinek	should I space them out?
16:39	amalloy	oh my
16:39	zachmassia	dsrx: Ya it sets the init-ns key. I tried setting it to 'myapp.core' which requires the same namespace the sample projects .clj does
16:39	amalloy	johnjelinek: you need a better async primitive than future
16:39	johnjelinek	how would I add a take-delay?
16:39	amalloy	like a threadpool
16:39	johnjelinek	hrmm ... well, clj-http has a connectionmanager, maybe I should use that instead of spinning up my own futures
16:40	amalloy	clj-http supports non-blocking io, i think, so you shouldn't need any threads at all
16:40	amalloy	just issue all the requests, and set a callback for each one
16:40	gtrak	I want/need statistics on every public clojure codebase in existence.
16:41	technomancy	gtrak: clojuresphere
16:41	gtrak	my first thought.
16:41	gtrak	I bet 95% of uses of interpose are inappropriate string/joins.
16:41	johnjelinek	amalloy: out of the box, I don't think clj-http does async, that's what made http-kit popular methinks
16:41	seangrove	dnolen_: Ok, both PRs were merged
16:41	johnjelinek	but http-kit can't do streaming http requests, so I'm going back to clj-http
16:42	dnolen_	seangrove: RAD
16:42	seangrove	dnolen_: Not sure when the next release will go out, but the merging bit was quite fast
16:42	amalloy	oh, i can't keep those straight. i just use aleph if i want async
16:42	dnolen_	seangrove: yes they are very responsive
16:43	johnjelinek	amalloy: lol, another library :\|
16:43	gtrak	arguably, interpose decomplects .toString from string/join
16:43	gtrak	therefore is good.
16:43	gtrak	:-)
16:44	amalloy	interpose is fine, i'm glad it exists
16:44	amalloy	but don't use it for strings, since join exists
16:45	technomancy	but amalloy what if I don't want to go up to the top of my file to add :require [clojure.string :as str] to the ns form
16:45	sdegutis	The sole usage of interpose in our codebase: (interpose "<br>" messages)
16:45	amalloy	technomancy: emacs keyboard macro for adding that, of course
16:45	technomancy	amalloy: the correct answer was slamhound
16:45	gtrak	sdegutis: you should use more semantic markup
16:46	technomancy	five points from hufflepuff
16:46	amalloy	i had a keyboard macro for adding flatland.useful.debug
16:46	hiredman	~#10
16:46	clojurebot	10. Get into a rut early: Do the same process the same way. Accumulate idioms. Standardize. The only difference(!) between Shakespeare and you was the size of his idiom list - not the size of his vocabulary. -- Alan J. Perlis
16:46	amalloy	hiredman: shakespeare cheated by making up half of english
16:46	seangrove	technomancy: Are you mad? You should alias it :as string anyway.
16:46	hiredman	amalloy: tell it to perlis
16:46	amalloy	:as s, man
16:46	technomancy	seangrove: that's 2x as many characters
16:47	amalloy	everyone knows what s/join means
16:47	technomancy	seangrove: if ns aliases were first-class that'd be a problem
16:47	technomancy	and I wish they were
16:47	gtrak	the likelihood that some other namespace has required it is very high, just don't worry about it.
16:47	technomancy	but they're not
16:47	seangrove	Madness
16:48	seangrove	technomancy: I guess you get used to dnolen_ telling you, "Oh your application works as an accident of undefined behavior, which we've decided to fix/change/revert"
16:48	amalloy	gtrak: the likelihood is 100%
16:49	technomancy	seangrove: I'd be so happy to have first-class namespaces that I wouldn't mind fixing the breakage =D
16:49	amalloy	clojure.string is one of the namespaces that's always required
16:49	seangrove	technomancy: I agree it'd be delightful.
16:50	technomancy	amalloy: I thought that changed in 1.3
16:50	technomancy	or was it just clojure.set
16:50	muhoo	i'm having a miserable time trying to get booleans to work with om
16:51	muhoo	(om/value something) returns either true or false, but it lies
16:51	muhoo	because tests like (if something) always succeed!
16:51	muhoo	and tests like (= true (om/value something)) always fail
16:52	bob2	is it in fact a string
16:52	bob2	technomancy, they're not first class?
16:53	technomancy	bob2: eh
16:53	technomancy	no reader syntax
16:53	muhoo	in short, i have no idea whether i'm doing something really stupid, or if booleans just don't work in cljs/om
16:53	sdegutis	amalloy: I always forget the ordering, like 99% of the time
16:54	technomancy	bob2: they're kinda like functions in lisp-2. you can pass em around and stuff, but they always feel awkward like not-quite-values
17:05	patchwork	technomancy: Hmm… upgraded to ring 1.2.1, still getting a blank response from (wrap-resource) on requests {:uri "/"}
17:05	patchwork	I even unzipped the jar and made sure your pull request got in: https://github.com/ring-clojure/ring/pull/97
17:06	patchwork	ring.util.response is checking (directory-url? …)
17:06	patchwork	Any leads?
17:06	patchwork	I realize now it happens on any uberjar, not just heroku (heroku just creates an uberjar)
17:07	technomancy	patchwork: can you remove the directory entry with :uberjar-exclusions or something?
17:08	patchwork	Hmm… just /resources/public/ ?
17:08	patchwork	I'll check that out
17:08	technomancy	sure; whatever it is that's getting returned by wrap-resource
17:09	patchwork	The thing is everything else lives in /resources/public. it is not an empty dir
17:09	technomancy	just to see if it works around the problem; not as a full solution
17:09	patchwork	Can I exclude just that path without excluding the rest of the files in that dir?
17:09	patchwork	I will check out :uberjar-exclusions
17:09	technomancy	you should be able to use a regex that matches the directory without matching the files under it
17:09	patchwork	Okay
17:10	broquaint	muhoo: Try out ankha and see what data you've really got? https://github.com/noprompt/ankha
17:11	johnjelinek	why does this return "not done yet" even when the future is done? (if (future-done? symbols) "not done yet" (count @symbols))
17:11	zachmassia	dsrx: If you or anyone has time to look over this, here's the errors and relevant files for my project when trying to get a brepl with austin working. https://gist.github.com/ZachMassia/462f7560016643dcd8fc
17:12	amalloy	johnjelinek: because if the future is done you return "not done yet"...
17:13	johnjelinek	lololol
17:13	johnjelinek	amalloy: thanks for that
17:14	rasmusto	~netsplit
17:14	clojurebot	I don't understand.
17:14	amalloy	,(doc deref)
17:14	clojurebot	"([ref] [ref timeout-ms timeout-val]); Also reader macro: @ref/@agent/@var/@atom/@delay/@future/@promise. Within a transaction, returns the in-transaction-value of ref, else returns the most-recently-committed value of ref. When applied to a var, agent or atom, returns its current state. When applied to a delay, forces it if not already forced. When applied to a future, will block if computation n...
17:14	zoldar	I'm going through Om tutorial and the code snippets have quite a nice formatting. On the other hand, LightTable, which I've started using recently is doing much worse, indenting often goes too deep or to shallow. Anybody got around custmizing it? Are there any knobs available on the editor level or is it necessary to fiddle with LT clojure mode directly?
17:15	amalloy	johnjelinek: you could also just write (deref symbols 0 "not done yet")
17:15	matthavener	johnjelinek: hey there :)
17:15	johnjelinek	matthavener: hey :)
17:17	dnolen_	johnjelinek: that question is probably best directed to the Light Table mailing list
17:17	johnjelinek	matthavener: how U?
17:17	gtrak	technomancy: is 'lein install' away from a project supposed to work? Seems like it overwrites the clojure dep in ~/.m2.
17:17	gtrak	just did it by accident
17:17	johnjelinek	dnolen_: which question, the CTRL+F?
17:17	dnolen_	johnjelinek: oops sorry
17:17	dnolen_	that was for zoldar ^
17:18	johnjelinek	lol
17:19	patchwork	technomancy: Added :uberjar-exclusions [#"resources/public/?"] to my project.clj, didn't seem to help
17:19	zoldar	dnolen_: ok, thanks
17:19	patchwork	Funny, I can hit every other route or file in the app!
17:19	patchwork	Another pattern maybe?
17:20	technomancy	patchwork: getting rid of wrap-resources makes the problem go away?
17:23	patchwork	technomancy: Yes. Removing wrap-resource gives me the home page at {:uri "/"}
17:24	patchwork	but without styling, js etc as those are resources
17:24	patchwork	with wrap-resource I get all those, but not the home page!
17:24	technomancy	patchwork: I'm about to go into a call, but if you pm me the app name I can investigate further when it's done
17:25	amalloy	patchwork: why do you get the home page at / to begin with?
17:25	amalloy	do you have some middleware that replaces that with index.html or something?
17:26	patchwork	amalloy: No the home page is not a resource, it is generated by the app
17:26	patchwork	(wrap-resource) is just for the static stuff
17:26	patchwork	The app is a handler that lives at the bottom of the middleware stack
17:26	patchwork	which is currently never getting hit at {:uri "/"}
17:27	patchwork	because (wrap-resource) is hijacking it and returning a blank file
17:27	amalloy	right, because there's a resource that exists at / (even if it's silly to consider a directory a resource)
17:27	sveri1	Hi, Anyone here having an idea about my problem i described here: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/clojure/0VMwgCpeoU4 ?
17:28	amalloy	instead of (wrap-resource handler ...), have you tried (routes handler (resources ...))?
17:29	muhoo	broquaint: oh, is that the floating window thing?
17:29	patchwork	amalloy: Strange, it only fails if it is running in an uberjar
17:30	patchwork	That is why I just discovered it, I was trying to work out heroku support
17:30	patchwork	So you are suggesting looking for resources if the route itself is not matched?
17:30	muhoo	noprompt: huh, that's pretty cool. i was just complaining about having to flip back and forth between cljs/nrepl and google console trying to see what these objects are or aren't.
17:31	amalloy	i'm suggesting explicitly giving your handler priority, if you don't like what wrap-resources is doing
17:31	patchwork	Right, but many of the resources are shadowed by routes that match variable paths
17:31	patchwork	so it would never fall through to find the resources
17:32	patchwork	which is why it hits the resources first in the stack
17:32	patchwork	The usual behavior is if the resource is not found, it falls through to the app. Which is actually what it does unless it's in an uberjar!
17:33	patchwork	I wonder what is different there?
17:33	amalloy	well, that's what it does even if it's in an uberjar
17:33	amalloy	i speculate that something about being in the uberjar makes it think / is a resource, so it's not "not found"
17:33	noprompt	muhoo: ankha?
17:33	amalloy	(routes (GET "/" req (handler req)) (wrap-resources ... handler))
17:34	muhoo	noprompt: ya
17:34	amalloy	for even more delicate route-untangling
17:34	patchwork	Right, which seems like what technomancy's earlier pull request should have fixed
17:34	noprompt	i'm having a weird problem w/ my project not picking up a dependency and i have no clue what's wrong.
17:35	patchwork	amalloy: Right, I guess I can directly inspect the incoming request and bypass (wrap-resources) in that case
17:36	patchwork	seems like a hack! But it will work I suppose
17:37	muhoo	anyway, still miserable with the booleans
17:40	noprompt	i'm trying to use the newest version of clojure.tools.cli but i keep ending up with the old version
17:41	noprompt	lein deps :tree doesn't report a dependency on the old version :\|
17:41	`cbp	when all else fails.. lein clean?
17:42	noprompt	i've done lein clean :S
17:43	muhoo	ah, solution is, (om/value somebool) fails. but (.valueOf somebool) works!
17:43	`cbp	then go nuclear and delete .m2 xD ?
17:44	amalloy	noprompt: google exorcism services
17:44	noprompt	amalloy: haha, what?
17:45	amalloy	since your computer is apparently haunted
17:45	amalloy	or possessed
17:45	amalloy	whatever it is you exorcise
17:46	patchwork	amalloy technomancy: This solved it! https://www.refheap.com/49113
17:47	amalloy	patchwork: there are a couple ways to improve that
17:47	patchwork	amalloy: Sure, what did you have in mind?
17:47	amalloy	the first is to wrap-resource once, outside the fn, and use it inside; this probably doesn't matter, but if wrap-resource were expensive to initialize...
17:47	patchwork	Ah, right
17:47	patchwork	even hacks should be well-engineered
17:48	amalloy	the second is to do what i suggested, ie (GET "/"). checking (= "/" uri) will fail if the uri is actually /?test=1
17:48	patchwork	Ah, yeah not using compojure
17:49	amalloy	really? well, to each his own i guess
17:51	patchwork	I don't like the macros. Using this: https://github.com/caribou/polaris
17:51	patchwork	I guess I could do a comparable thing with polaris
17:52	amalloy	i think the only macros i've ever used in compojure are GET and POST
17:52	patchwork	I get to the point where I want to use GET or POST as a value somewhere and then end up writing something like (fn [route] (GET route))
17:53	patchwork	which just seems wrong
17:53	amalloy	it doesn't just seem wrong, it like...is wrong? that shouldn't work at all
17:54	patchwork	Well, that is pseudocode
17:54	patchwork	I forget exactly what the args to GET are
17:54	patchwork	But that is the spirit : )
17:54	amalloy	doesn't really matter what they are, since it's a macro - if route is at all interesting, calling it like that won't work
17:55	patchwork	Right, it has some quoting I believe
17:55	patchwork	been awhile since I've done it, since I switched to something that treats routes as data and not fuzzy macro sugar
17:56	patchwork	It is funny, when I first got into lisp (and read through "on lisp" what, 10 years ago?) I thought macros were the ultimate
17:57	patchwork	Now I never touch the things
17:57	patchwork	Can't take the value of a macro, they are useless to me
17:58	seangrove	patchwork: core.async is useless to you?
17:58	patchwork	Ah, no I love core.async
17:58	patchwork	Also: let
17:59	patchwork	And: fn
17:59	patchwork	I just haven't written one
17:59	patchwork	They are good for fundamental things like that I suppose
18:00	patchwork	but most of the time I want to compose things programmatically
18:00	patchwork	a macro is like a compositional dead-end
18:03	seangrove	patchwork: I agree, best avoided if possible
18:05	johnjelinek	dakrone: what does Connection Pool shut down mean?
18:10	dakrone	johnjelinek: that the connection pool has been shut down? can you give me more context?
18:11	johnjelinek	dakrone: it's a little ways behind me now, I bypassed it by removing a doall on my async requests in the with-connection-pool
18:12	dakrone	johnjelinek: okay, happy to help if I can
18:15	johnjelinek	dakrone: will this still use the number of threads I specified in the connection manager? (client/with-connection-pool {:timeout 5 :threads 4 :default-per-route 2 :insecure? false} (let [req-futs (map #(future (client/get % {:oauth-token (:access_token @access-token) :throw-exceptions false :as :json-s
18:17	dakrone	johnjelinek: ahh, I see the issue
18:17	johnjelinek	since I use (future in req-futs I have suspicion that the thread count may increase to accomodate (take 26 urls)
18:17	dakrone	johnjelinek: the with-connection-pool creates a connection manager, and then closes it at the end, but since you are creating futures that may run after the manager has been closed, it's possible to try and use a previously-closed manager
18:18	dakrone	johnjelinek: a better solution is to create a manager and use the :connection-manager option, as in the second example here: https://github.com/dakrone/clj-http/#using-persistent-connections
18:18	johnjelinek	what is the recommended way to use the connection manager and still get a collection of futures that I can watch?
18:18	dakrone	johnjelinek: then, once all futures have been realized, you can close it at your leisure
18:19	johnjelinek	ahh, ok
18:19	technomancy	patchwork1: that kind of stuff shouldn't be necessary though
18:19	johnjelinek	how do I close it at my leisure?
18:19	technomancy	it worries me that the issue is still present despite that patch being merged
18:19	johnjelinek	just set it to nil?
18:19	technomancy	do you have a repro case I could check out?
18:20	johnjelinek	dakrone: Ideally, all I want is for my function not to block
18:20	dakrone	johnjelinek: there is a shutdown-manager function in clj-http.conn-mgr
18:20	johnjelinek	so (map (future ... I thought would get me that
18:20	dakrone	johnjelinek: yes, so create the manager once, use it throughout your program, then when you're shutting down, you can finally shut it down
18:20	johnjelinek	great :)
18:21	patchwork1	technomancy: I will put one together, in a meeting currently
18:21	johnjelinek	btw, you may want to add shutdown-manager to the example on the github
18:21	dakrone	johnjelinek: good idea!
18:21	technomancy	patchwork1: thanks.
18:22	dakrone	johnjelinek: added, thanks
18:23	johnjelinek	yw
18:29	rasmusto	,(and (nil? 'nil) (true? 'true) (false? 'false))
18:29	clojurebot	true
18:30	rasmusto	good to know
18:32	amalloy	,(instance? String)
18:32	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (1) passed to: core/instance?>
18:32	amalloy	nice
18:33	rasmusto	,(instance 'true)
18:33	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: instance in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
18:33	rasmusto	,(instance? 'true)
18:33	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (1) passed to: core/instance?>
18:33	rasmusto	,(instance? 'true java.lang.Boolean)
18:33	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Boolean cannot be cast to java.lang.Class>
18:33	johnjelinek	dakrone: ok, so now I have my 26 futures, how do I make sure that only 4 threads are being used as enforced by the conn-mgr?
18:34	rasmusto	,(instance? java.lang.Boolean 'true)
18:34	clojurebot	true
18:34	dakrone	johnjelinek: threads for the actual futures themselves, or threads for the connection manager?
18:34	johnjelinek	the latter
18:34	dakrone	johnjelinek: the connection manager will manage that, you can enabled the apache debug logs and see it do that if you desire
18:35	johnjelinek	btw, how will this work -- the 26 threads for the futures will reduce to the 4 specified by the conn-mgr?
18:36	dakrone	johnjelinek: a future doesn't spawn a thread, internally it uses clojure's ThreadPoolExecutor based on the number of processors in your machine
18:36	johnjelinek	dakrone: oh -- from what I read, I was under the impression is spawns a thread
18:36	johnjelinek	to manage concurrency
18:36	dakrone	johnjelinek: it spawns a thread from the threadpool, which may or may-not actuall spawn a thread :)
18:37	johnjelinek	gotcha
18:37	dakrone	johnjelinek: if it's a fixed threadpool of size 4, then only 4 threads will be spawned at a time, the rest of the ops will be queued
18:37	hiredman	dakrone: the future threadpool is unbounded
18:37	dakrone	hiredman: oh, for some reason I thought it was CPU-limited
18:38	dakrone	ahh yea, pmap uses a limited threadpool
18:38	amalloy	that's for agents
18:38	dakrone	well one of the threadpools is limited, somewhere ;D
18:39	johnjelinek	but in my case of (map #(future ... then it's spawning more threads to keep it non-blocking, but the requests in the futures may be queued by the threads in the conn-mgr
18:39	amalloy	dakrone: pmap uses an unbounded threadpool (ie, the future threadpool), it just tries not to realize too many elements at once
18:39	dakrone	amalloy: ahh okay
18:39	hiredman	johnjelinek: when using map and future it is important to keep in mind that map is lazy
18:40	johnjelinek	should I use something else?
18:40	johnjelinek	I'm just using map to pump the URLS into my client/get argument
18:40	hiredman	depends what you want, I would use an executor and a queue of results
18:41	dakrone	johnjelinek: you may be able to utilize something like https://github.com/TheClimateCorporation/claypoole for this
18:41	johnjelinek	dakrone: claypoole was recommended to me yesterday, but I'm trying to keep my samples simple enough so I can ship something ;)
18:42	dakrone	johnjelinek: in that case I wouldn't be too worried about having every single future executing an HTTP request at the same time, I'd set the connection manager threads to a reasonable value and keep stuff in futures like you have
18:45	johnjelinek	I thought maybe I could swap the map and future around to be (future (map ... so I would have it execute all requests by the conn-mgr and still send a future I can check the status of ... but this blocks :\|
18:48	johnjelinek	lol, so it blocks and returns a finished future
19:06	johnjelinek	why is this non-blocking: (future (into #{} (map #(% :Name) (flatten (map #(% :body) (pmap client/get urls (repeat {:oauth-token (:access_token @access-token) :throw-exceptions false :as :json-strict-string-
19:06	gtrak	anyone know of a way to expand Ant Filesets in clojure?
19:06	johnjelinek	oh, it didn't paste everything
19:06	gtrak	johnjelinek: don't paste multiple lines
19:06	`cbp	johnjelinek: refheap
19:06	johnjelinek	refheap?
19:06	clojurebot	https://www.refheap.com/
19:06	`cbp	~botsnack
19:06	clojurebot	Thanks, but I prefer chocolate
19:07	hiredman	~pmap
19:07	clojurebot	pmap is not what you want
19:07	`cbp	: (
19:07	rasmusto	~doall
19:07	clojurebot	I don't understand.
19:07	hiredman	~flatten
19:07	clojurebot	flatten is rarely the right answer. Suppose you need to use a list as your "base type", for example. Usually you only want to flatten a single level, and in that case you're better off with concat. Or, better still, use mapcat to produce a sequence that's shaped right to begin with.
19:08	hiredman	#(% :Name) is so gross
19:09	hiredman	etc etc
19:09	johnjelinek	here's a pastebin: http://pastebin.com/DzkWvt0N
19:09	rasmusto	,((comp :name :body) {:body {:name "foo"}})
19:09	clojurebot	"foo"
19:10	johnjelinek	so, why is the latter blocking?
19:11	johnjelinek	oh, hurp durp* I need to prolly future my get-all-symbols
19:12	rasmusto	the #(str "https://example.com") isn't doing anything, you're missing a % (an aside)
19:13	johnjelinek	sorry, I replaced the real stuff with "example.com" and forgot the %
19:13	rasmusto	kk, was just nitpicking anyways :)
19:14	johnjelinek	http://pastebin.com/1xik5pEx
19:14	johnjelinek	just for you :)
19:14	rasmusto	,'<3
19:14	clojurebot	<3
19:16	rasmusto	johnjelinek: are you saying that it blocks before you try to dereference it?
19:18	johnjelinek	rasmusto: yes
19:20	johnjelinek	rasmusto: actually, it's weird behavror -- (future-done? is true
19:20	johnjelinek	but (deref blocks
19:21	johnjelinek	(meaning (future-done? should've been false
19:24	gtrak	oh wow, ant's FileSet has a handy iterator function. This might be easier than I thought.
19:24	johnjelinek	g2g
19:24	patchwork	technomancy: Here you go: https://github.com/caribou/caribou-development/tree/develop
19:25	technomancy	patchwork: thanks
19:26	patchwork	technomancy: Thank you! I have to run, maybe leave a comment on that repo if you find anything?
19:26	technomancy	patchwork: sounds good
19:40	stcred0	Is there any way that I can get Clojure to generate a Java superclass and two subclasses with disparate state implementing the same protocol?
20:02	gfredericks	disparate state?
20:02	stcred0	yes, they have none of the same attributes
20:02	stcred0	but they both implement the same protocol
20:03	gfredericks	why do you need the subclass relationship?
20:04	stcred0	I seem to be having difficulty getting things to compile. The Clojure compiler doesn't seem to like it when I have the return-type hint be the protocol
20:05	gfredericks	why do you need to type hint w/ a protocol?
20:05	stcred0	Won't that result in faster code?
20:06	gfredericks	if `lein check` doesn't tell you there's specific reflective code being generated, then there's no problem to solve
20:06	gfredericks	type hints only help w/ reflection
20:06	stcred0	I have set warn-on-reflection true in all those source files, so that's the same thing?
20:07	gfredericks	probably so
20:08	stcred0	So, if I have a ight loop where I'd like there to be polymorphic dispatch and for that to be compiled to what I'd expect it to be in Java, I don't have to do anything?
20:08	gfredericks	well protocols have a bit of overhead compared to interfaces
20:08	gfredericks	but each protocol has an underlying interface
20:09	gfredericks	which is sometimes implemented by the classes satisfying the protocol, dependending
20:09	gfredericks	but protocols aren't going to be obscenely slow like reflection
20:10	stcred0	But if I can get the two classes satisfying the protocol to implement the interface, won't that result in even faster code?
20:10	gfredericks	you can measure to check
20:10	stcred0	Potentially, things would be JIT-ed
20:10	gfredericks	if you use deftype or defrecord and do the protocol definition inline, it'll implement theh interface
20:11	stcred0	I am using defrecord for the two things implementing the protocol. What do you mean about doing the protocol definition inline?
20:11	gfredericks	within the defrecord expression
20:11	gfredericks	contrasted with extend-type or extend-protocol
20:12	stcred0	So then how would I get that to happen with polymorphism between two classes?
20:12	gfredericks	,(defprotocol IFoo (foo [_]))
20:12	clojurebot	IFoo
20:12	gfredericks	,(defrecord A [] IFoo (foo [_] "I am an A"))
20:12	clojurebot	sandbox.A
20:13	gfredericks	,(defrecord B [] IFoo (foo [_] "I am a B"))
20:13	clojurebot	sandbox.B
20:13	gfredericks	,(type sandbox/IFoo)
20:13	clojurebot	clojure.lang.PersistentArrayMap
20:13	gfredericks	,(import 'sandbox.IFoo)
20:13	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.Var cannot be cast to java.lang.Class>
20:13	gfredericks	,sandbox.IFoo
20:13	clojurebot	sandbox.IFoo
20:13	gfredericks	,(type sandbox.IFoo)
20:13	clojurebot	java.lang.Class
20:13	gfredericks	,(satisfies? (A.) sandbox/IFoo)
20:13	clojurebot	#<NullPointerException java.lang.NullPointerException>
20:14	gfredericks	,(satisfies? sandbox/IFoo (A.))
20:14	clojurebot	true
20:14	gfredericks	,(instance? sandbox.IFoo (A.))
20:14	clojurebot	true
20:14	gfredericks	,(foo (A.))
20:14	clojurebot	"I am an A"
20:14	gfredericks	,(.foo (A.))
20:14	clojurebot	"I am an A"
20:14	stcred0	I think that's what I'm doing.
20:15	gfredericks	note the difference between the last two
20:15	gfredericks	the first one is never reflective and type hints don't help; the second can be reflective and you would type hint with the interface name
20:15	gfredericks	,(.foo ^sandbox.IFoo (B.))
20:15	clojurebot	"I am a B"
20:16	gfredericks	,(time (.foo (B.)))
20:16	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 0.112743 msecs"\n"I am a B"
20:16	gfredericks	,(time (.foo ^sandbox.IFoo (B.)))
20:16	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 0.107861 msecs"\n"I am a B"
20:16	gfredericks	,(set! warn-on-reflection true)
20:16	clojurebot	#<IllegalStateException java.lang.IllegalStateException: Can't change/establish root binding of: warn-on-reflection with set>
20:16	gfredericks	time on clojurebot might be funky
20:16	stcred0	Well, you'd have to keep at it to warm up the JIT
20:17	gfredericks	there's usually an immediate factor of 100-1000x difference
20:17	gfredericks	if one is reflective
20:17	gfredericks	but since the constructor is inline it might not have been
20:17	gfredericks	,(time (#(.foo %) (B.)))
20:17	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 0.225027 msecs"\n"I am a B"
20:17	gfredericks	whatever
20:17	hyPiRion	,(.bindRoot #'warn-on-reflection true)
20:17	clojurebot	nil
20:18	gfredericks	hyPiRion: aw snap
20:18	gfredericks	,#(.foo %)
20:18	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.SecurityException: denied, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
20:18	gfredericks	,(+ 1 2)
20:18	clojurebot	3
20:18	stcred0	so the key is to define the constructor inline?
20:18	gfredericks	stcred0: no ignore that part
20:18	gfredericks	that was just about timing on clojurebot
20:18	gfredericks	stcred0: if you use the interface methods and type hint with the interface, it should either work right or blow up
20:19	gfredericks	so unlikely you're subtly messing up
20:19	stcred0	okay, so I'll just not worry about it for now, since I an doing a defprotocol and defrecord-ing the two types.
20:20	stcred0	it's only when I do more hinting than that that I have compile problems.
20:20	gfredericks	sure
20:20	gfredericks	yeah wait till you have definite perf problems to worry past that :)
20:20	stcred0	I'm trying to fit 1000's of simultaneous users into one instance of my MMO.
20:27	bbloom	Bronsa: so have you do a line count on your analyzer/emitters and the java impls?
20:29	Bronsa	bbloom: t.a + t.a.j + t.e.j is ~5.2k locs
20:30	Bronsa	Compiler.java is 8.5k + Reflector.java 500
20:31	bbloom	Bronsa: and those are more or less equiv functionality?
20:31	Bronsa	bbloom: tools.* is modular & extensible, the java impl not at all
20:32	bbloom	Bronsa: sure, but that's a given :-P
20:32	bbloom	cool, thanks for the metrics
20:32	bbloom	i was curious, but wasn't sure which bits to count precisely
20:33	Bronsa	bbloom: also ~300locs in t.a/t.a.j are not actually needed but are passes provided for the users
20:34	bbloom	Bronsa: what's that mean exactly?
20:34	Bronsa	bbloom: e.g. the datomic support or the emit-form pass to convert an ast back to clojure source
20:34	bbloom	ah ok cool
20:35	Bronsa	so yeah, I think it's fair to say that it's 5k vs 8.5k taking into account that Compiler.java has a bunch of commented out classes
20:36	chare	so if you try to make a 1milion threads in clojure is that going to end up badly, is the jvm unable to handle that kind of scale?
20:37	bbloom	chare: your operating system is going to be the bottleneck, not the jvm
20:37	chare	not if the threads are not mapped 1 to 1 to os threads
20:38	bbloom	we don't call those "threads" anymore. you can probably make 1 million green threads with core.async without much difficulty
20:38	chare	so clojure has green threads? are those from java or did clojure implement somehow green threads on its own
20:39	bbloom	chare: start here: http://clojure.com/blog/2013/06/28/clojure-core-async-channels.html
20:40	seangrove	chare: Also, erlang is nice
20:43	chare	so core.async is meant to do stuff similar to erlang?
20:44	noprompt	if i'm implementing IFn is there any benefit to implementing it for all 20 arg positions?
20:44	dnolen_	chare: more similar to channels in Go
20:44	dnolen_	noprompt: not really, at some point I would like to spend some time to figure out how to make implementing IFn sensible
20:45	noprompt	dnolen_: how do i deal w/ & more in that case?
20:47	dnolen_	noprompt: if you want to correctly handle variadic I would just write a macro over IFn
20:47	chare	so if you're trying to get something like erlang style stuff in clojure and you use akka does that mean the threads are heavyweight since i'm assuming that akka is meant for java
20:47	noprompt	dnolen_: that works out then because i've already written the code generation for the specs.
20:48	noprompt	dnolen_: working on a better selector api for garden. :)
21:08	chare	so which clojure books cover core.async?
21:09	noprompt	chare: none that i know of.
21:10	noprompt	chare: i just came out last year.
21:10	chare	no no no
21:10	noprompt	*it
21:10	chare	so theres no good tutorial for newbies?
21:10	noprompt	chare: sure. there plenty of stuff out there.
21:11	chare	whats the best?
21:12	noprompt	chare: well, there are a handful of videos mentioned in the README. a quick google search might show some blogs.
21:12	noprompt	chare: afa the "best" is concerned there really isn't one that comes to mind. just watch the videos, hack, and ask questions.
21:13	chare	crap
21:13	noprompt	?
21:14	chare	noprompt how about you write a book sell it for $9 and i'll buy it
21:14	noprompt	lol
21:14	chare	so write a clojure book on async
21:14	chare	go go go
21:15	noprompt	chare: yo, just research. learn
21:17	noprompt	chare: dnolen_ has some good cljs core.async examples that helped me when i first started. the core.async repo is full of examples and the videos will help you a lot too.
21:18	noprompt	chare: swannodette.github.io
21:18	noprompt	chare: https://github.com/clojure/core.async/
21:18	chare	how are green threads even implemented, and why doesn't java have them (or does java already have it?)
21:18	noprompt	:
21:18	noprompt	:\|
21:19	chare	what?
21:19	clojurebot	http://paste.lisp.org/display/74305
21:19	seangrove	~guards
21:19	clojurebot	SEIZE HIM!
21:19	noprompt	seangrove: hey!
21:19	noprompt	:)
21:19	seangrove	noprompt: Hey
21:19	noprompt	seangrove: i think gf3 and i are gonna try and remote pair on secretary this weekend if you're down.
21:20	seangrove	Runnng out right now, but want to catch up at some point
21:20	seangrove	Oh, that might be good
21:20	noprompt	seangrove: sure thing. :)
21:20	seangrove	I'm going to write an om component this weekend for saving state
21:20	noprompt	seangrove: ah, yeah, definitely hit me up!
21:20	seangrove	click-click-click to where ou're developing, hit a key, state is saved to localStorage, refresh and it's restored straight to that point
21:20	chare	noprompt: you don't know the answer for java?
21:20	noprompt	chare: not to be rude, but frankly, i don't care how it's implemented.
21:21	chare	wtf how can you not care?
21:21	noprompt	chare: easy.
21:21	noprompt	chare: i just don't care.
21:22	noprompt	chare: i've never run in to a problem where that sort of thing was relevant.
21:22	noprompt	chare: i only care when something's a problem.
21:22	noprompt	chare: or when i want to know for myself. then i research.
21:22	noprompt	chare: not trying to be a jerk here.
21:22	noprompt	chare: why should i care?
21:22	chare	but what happens when I have to maintain a legacy java codebase so i HAVE to use java only
21:23	noprompt	chare: ask around in #java?
21:23	noprompt	i'm really, really, not trying to be rude here.
21:29	bbloom	noprompt: now that i think about it, i'm pretty sure chare was banned for trolling at some point
21:29	chare	i'm not a troll
21:29	seangrove	Best to just /ignore
21:30	seangrove	Could see that one coming a mile away
21:30	chare	I'm not a troll
21:31	S11001001	eI hear, in space, it is very cold.
21:34	noprompt	bbloom: oh, didn't know that. :*(
21:34	bbloom	noprompt: i had forgotten for a moment myself
21:35	bbloom	what else floats? very small rocks.
21:35	noprompt	bbloom: actually, now that i think about it, you're right. i remember chare from a few months ago.
21:35	gfredericks	he reminded me because I think the opening line is "I'm not a witch, I'm not a witch."
21:35	noprompt	bbloom: i'll just block him.
21:35	bbloom	shh, we've said his name twice now. if you say it 3 more times, he might show back up like beattlejuice
21:35	chare	i'm not troll, my questions above meaningful
21:36	noprompt	chare: fuck off bro.
21:36	noprompt	lol
21:36	bbloom	noprompt: ignore, don't engage
21:36	noprompt	bbloom: you going to clojure west?
21:36	bbloom	noprompt: yup
21:37	noprompt	bbloom: cool. i'm excited to meet everyone.
21:37	noprompt	i couldn't make it last year cause i couldn't afford it. :(
21:38	goldfeld	everyone's going!
21:38	goldfeld	it's where it's at
21:39	noprompt	what does "Marker protocol" mean for Fn in cljs?
21:40	gfredericks	noprompt: I think that refers to empty protocols that act as flags
21:40	noprompt	gfredericks: flags for...?
21:40	noprompt	gfredericks: for satisfies?
21:40	Bronsa	(satisfies? IFn some-boj)
21:40	Bronsa	Fn*
21:41	Bronsa	obj*
21:41	noprompt	interesting. so when would one want to create a marker protocol?
21:41	seancorfield	Me and one of my team will be there... unlike last year where I sent the whole of my team :)
21:42	noprompt	is rhickey going to be there?
21:43	gfredericks	I don't think he's missed clojure-{conj,west} so far
21:43	noprompt	i didn't see his name on the list of speakers.
21:43	gfredericks	it's gotta happen eventually though
21:44	goldfeld	well, not necessarily
21:44	gfredericks	he's probably tired of having to say something interesting every six months :)
21:44	gfredericks	he didn't do a keynote at the conj I don't think
21:44	bbloom	he's said as much
21:44	bbloom	also, if you've ever given a talk, you know they are A LOT of work
21:44	noprompt	well he could get up there and just tell software jokes. he's really funny actually.
21:44	bbloom	ha
21:44	seangrove	Wow, a state save/restore for super easy dev in 2 lines of code
21:44	seancorfield	there's a TBD keynote on day two - could still be rich
21:44	goldfeld	oh, but him being there doesn't have to mean he has to give a talk
21:45	seangrove	Needs a visual component to polish it off, but man frontend stuff if fun now
21:45	goldfeld	do you thin that's an expectation?
21:45	goldfeld	think*
21:45	noprompt	seangrove: what i wanted to make was a vcr w/ branching.
21:46	gfredericks	goldfeld: he's also probably tired of being a celebrity, so maybe if we stop gossiping about it he won't get scared off ;-)
21:46	noprompt	seangrove: record. navigate through changes, etc.
21:47	goldfeld	is that an om component you're talking about?
21:47	noprompt	goldfeld: yah.
21:47	noprompt	goldfeld: lots of fun work in that space.
21:47	noprompt	seangrove: i'd really love to know how you're using secretary.
21:47	goldfeld	definitely
21:48	goldfeld	where's the one you're talking about?
21:48	seangrove	noprompt: An example is in omchaya
21:48	noprompt	seangrove: in conjunction w/ om anyway.
21:48	seangrove	It's not as in-depth as our prod app, but it's there to show how
21:48	seangrove	It's pretty loosely coupled
21:49	noprompt	seangrove: so one of the patterns we came upon was when you have go blocks inside of your defroute.
21:50	noprompt	seangrove: every go block returns a next-state which gets merged with a blank-state on dispatch!
21:50	seangrove	Heh, we do have one of those in our prod app, but it's to handle waiting until some data from the server is loaded before firing
21:50	noprompt	seangrove: that's precisely the use case.
21:51	noprompt	seangrove: the only downside is the weird hash change in the url while waiting for the view to render for a slow response.
21:52	noprompt	it'd be awesome to get the om folks together in a google hangout or something to discuss ideas/patterns etc.
21:52	seangrove	Oh man, finished this right before I had to go, in ~4minutes from start to finish https://www.dropbox.com/s/vdnjnmfb5b120gk/om_save_restore.mov
21:52	goldfeld	company i'm in goes as far as hosting the city's clojure meetup, but it's been hard talking my boss into just going with om instead of react plus probably mori for some business logic, main thing for him is it would take a frontend dev a while to get running with a clojure workflow and mindset
21:52	seangrove	noprompt: definitely, looking forward to clojure/west
21:52	seangrove	Ok, really have to go!
21:52	noprompt	dnolen_: are you open to something like that?
21:53	noprompt	dnolen_: cyber table coders?
21:53	noprompt	:)
21:57	noprompt	goldfeld: you just have to do it and show your boss/team there's value.
21:58	noprompt	goldfeld: the team i'm on was using angular/coffeescript and the first week i was there i suggested clojurescript + om. so far it's been a success an folks are happy w/ it.
21:59	noprompt	goldfeld: there's a learning curve, and new problems along the way, but so far the team/client have loved it so far.
22:00	noprompt	goldfeld: iow you can't ask permission. it's like Programming Clojure book says, "show value"
22:00	noprompt	goldfeld: just spike on it. :)
22:01	noprompt	ok i'm yammering too much. sorry. :)
22:04	noprompt	Raynes, my old friend!
22:04	noprompt	:)
22:04	goldfeld	noprompt: no that's actually great advice and to be fair i'm allowed leeway on that front, he's actually done a thing or two in clojurescript back when he was the frontend team so i can do libraries/components in it and i'm looking forward to it, but the project hasn't started yet and i'm still stuck on an ex-backbone codebase on another project
22:05	goldfeld	right now i'm the frontend team, so i could even say "hey all the team is loving it!"
22:06	noprompt	goldfeld: bring it in at "gunpoint". :)
22:06	noprompt	goldfeld: hell, i brought garden in because "why wouldn't you want your entire codebase in one language?" :P
22:07	goldfeld	my coworker who's an html/css/standards specialist would be kinda sad
22:07	noprompt	why?
22:07	clojurebot	why is Why
22:08	goldfeld	i guess he like his sass
22:08	goldfeld	likes*
22:08	goldfeld	which i don't
22:08	noprompt	css is weird. at least garden gives you the power to abstract the weirdness away into something that's uniform and you have control over.
22:09	noprompt	the next version of garden, which i'm working on ATM, is going to expose several new protocols too.
22:09	goldfeld	i know! i'll be using garden on my next web-based side project, but i think the audience for it is precisely a programmer-minded one, which he isn't
22:09	goldfeld	right now i'm deep in node+cljs
22:10	goldfeld	i could be wrong though
22:10	noprompt	cool! just make sure you share libraries!
22:10	goldfeld	i've been pulling out some, the node cljs landscape is so sparse
22:11	goldfeld	i've seen the source for lighttable has done a lot of precisely what i've done wrapping nodejs's core modules, but i haven't seen any library wrapper released for that, so i'm pushing mine to clojars soon
22:11	noprompt	awesom.
22:12	goldfeld	plus there's this really cool curses lib for node called blessed which i'm evolving a bit under clojure, and maybe i'll take a hint or two from you on styling it
22:12	goldfeld	i mean, from your code, when i get to it
22:12	noprompt	i think once the secretary team can figure out how to make GET/POST/etc routes work in cljs we can target node js aswell.
22:13	noprompt	technically secretary will work w/ node but we'd like to have the verbs in the browser there. we just don't know the "right" way to do it.
22:13	goldfeld	the only effort i've seen on node+cljs servers is bodil's dogfort
22:13	goldfeld	and her redlobster lib for working with promises is really awesome
22:13	noprompt	oh the curses thing in cljs would be awesome!
22:14	goldfeld	yeah, easy interactive terminal apps in cljs for everyone!
22:14	goldfeld	i'm brushing it up
22:14	noprompt	gah! too much awesome stuff happening here.
22:15	goldfeld	i'm also got some work done on an org-parser in cljs+node, if that's of interest to anyone
22:15	goldfeld	still gotta pull out of my main project too
22:16	goldfeld	would love to talk more about the node+cljs story on clojure west
22:17	noprompt	definitely!
22:18	alew	what deployment and configuration management tools do people use for clojure apps here?
22:23	goldfeld	you mean something like pallet?
22:23	goldfeld	it's got connectors to most cloud services
22:24	alew	I mean exactly like pallet
22:24	goldfeld	so is pallet a good answer or are you looking for something else?
22:24	alew	I wanted to use pallet, but it's a little bit early
22:24	alew	I'm currently trying out ansible, but I was just curious what others found worked well
22:25	goldfeld	i actually don't have experience on that front but pallet's what i got my eyes on for when i need that
22:25	goldfeld	but ansible i guess would be my natural non-clojure option
22:26	alew	Pallet has a pretty fantastic philosophy and I like the direction they are heading
22:26	alew	but the new version had quite a few breaking changes so you would have to put in a bit of work to get a lot of basic stuff working from what I experienced
22:53	bob2	is clojure.xml still the thing to be using for simple xml generation?
22:54	devn	bob2: there's clojure.data.xml
23:03	bob2	I was slightly scared off it due to it being 0.0.7 and having had no code commits in 4 months
23:03	bob2	but maybe it's just done-ish
23:15	devn	bob2: xml is after all, a pretty old problem
23:15	bob2	heh
23:21	devn	yay for promises