#clojure – 2014-02-18

2014-02-18

00:25	logic_prog	where is tbaldridge?
00:25	logic_prog	I have a core.async question
00:25	logic_prog	,(ns-lookup 'clojure-wizards 'tbaldridge)
00:25	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: ns-lookup in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
00:25	logic_prog	,(ns-find 'clojure-sages 'tbaldridge)
00:26	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: ns-find in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
00:31	ddellacosta	logic_prog: why don't you ask your question and see if anyone else can answer it
00:32	logic_prog	sure, https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/clojure/ApJPmJfijpU :-)
01:14	kyled	Hey there! I'm trying to figure out the best way to determine how deep a list goes.
01:15	kyled	http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=FjzZE1fv is the answer I came up with . I want to make it more succinct, and smaller if possible, any ideas?
01:15	kyled	can the howDeep function be re factored into a tail-recursion call somehow?
01:18	dsrx	,(max 10 5)
01:18	clojurebot	10
01:19	sm0ke	,(def max min)
01:19	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.SecurityException: denied, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
01:19	kyled	o, one lass function definition is always good =)
01:23	kyled	technically, i think i can remove the (if (seq? fl) part
01:24	kyled	so for (if (nil? .. i can just ask (if (notSeq? )) maybe
01:25	TEttinger	kyled, maybe take a look at how core.matrix does it
01:25	kyled	Tettinger: will do! =) thanks
01:26	TEttinger	https://github.com/mikera/core.matrix/blob/develop/src/main/clojure/clojure/core/matrix/impl/sequence.clj hm...
01:27	TEttinger	https://github.com/mikera/core.matrix/blob/develop/src/main/clojure/clojure/core/matrix/impl/sequence.clj#L89 they do it by recursively checking each dimension, I believe scalars return 0
01:42	seangrove	It's infuriating that most of the html5 tags don't seem to work with attributes properly
01:42	seangrove	You have to call audioTag.mute() rather than <audio muted="true" />
01:56	kyled	TEttinger: whoops, didn't see your reply, willl look at the links =)
02:39	szymanowski	is there a way to test arity of an anonymous function in clojure?
02:39	devn	,(#(count %&) 1 2 3 4 5)
02:40	clojurebot	5
02:40	amalloy	szymanowski: no
02:40	voldyman	,(count (list 1 2 3 4 5))
02:40	clojurebot	5
02:43	szymanowski	i'm trying to build an higher-order-fun that behaves differently accordingly to the arity of the given function
02:43	szymanowski	does it make sense?
02:43	devn	(defn foo ([x] ...) ([x y] ...) ([x y z] ...))
02:44	szymanowski	yes i know this construct :) but it doesn't help
02:44	szymanowski	s
02:50	sm0ke	szymanowski: you can write a macro which counts the arity
02:50	sm0ke	but it can be hairy if destructuring is involved
02:50	szymanowski	great, i will check this, thank you
03:14	fredyr	szymanowski: simplest would be to just wrap a macro to convert the args to a vector
03:14	fredyr	(defmacro wrapper [& rest] ..)
03:16	szymanowski	i will try that, thank you
03:16	fredyr	oh, ofc you don't need to use a macro at all
03:16	fredyr	& rest works on defn just as fine
03:16	lazybot	⇒ #<core$rest clojure.core$rest@2835c8>
03:18	fredyr	(defn sum-times-nargs [& xs] (* (count xs) (reduce + xs)))
03:18	fredyr	,(defn sum-times-nargs [& xs] (* (count xs) (reduce + xs)))
03:18	clojurebot	#'sandbox/sum-times-nargs
03:19	fredyr	,(sum-times-nargs 1 1 1 1 1)
03:19	clojurebot	25
03:19	TEttinger	nice fredyr
03:19	TEttinger	(inc fredyr)
03:19	lazybot	⇒ 4
03:19	fredyr	:)
03:28	amalloy	you guys know you're not solving szymanowski's problem at all, right? he wants a function or macro arity, such that (let [f #(inc %), g #(+ % %2)] (map arity [f g])) returns [1 2]
03:28	amalloy	which he can't have because functions don't know their arity
03:28	szymanowski	actually the thing i'm trying to do is: (arity (fn [a b] ... )) => 2
03:28	szymanowski	ok
03:29	szymanowski	thank you amalloy :)
03:29	amalloy	szymanowski: i don't really believe that's what you want, because it only works if you put the lambda literal right inside the arity call (ie, in a context where you already know it takes two args)
03:29	amalloy	(let [f (fn [a b])] (arity f)) => 2 ;; you want this too, right?
03:30	szymanowski	yes!
03:30	amalloy	right. that's what you can't have
03:30	fredyr	(dec fredyr)
03:30	lazybot	You can't adjust your own karma.
03:30	szymanowski	ok :)
03:30	fredyr	:/
03:30	amalloy	you can have the easy version, which only works if you already know the answer :)
03:30	TEttinger	(dec fredyr)
03:30	lazybot	⇒ 3
03:31	TEttinger	there's always call with 21 args, then 20, then 19, catching all the exceptions it throws. but I wouldn't recommend it
03:31	szymanowski	wow sounds dirty
03:31	amalloy	TEttinger: but what if the function accepts 8 args, and then throws an arityexception because it called something else with the wrong number of args?
03:31	amalloy	or when you call it with 20 args it deletes your hard drive
03:32	szymanowski	:)
03:32	Pupnik_	who do + and * give 0 and 1 with 0 parameters?
03:33	eliyak	maths
03:33	amalloy	because those are the answers that make sense, Pupnik_. 0 is the additive identity, and 1 the multiplicative identity
03:34	Pupnik_	thanks
03:35	eliyak	szymanowski: maybe this will be useful : http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3782970/how-can-i-display-the-definition-of-a-function-in-clojure-at-the-repl
03:39	szymanowski	thank you but i do not want to know the arity for myself calling the function, i want to know it when this function is passed to an higher-order-fun in order to make differents things based on the arity
03:39	atyz	Hey all. I'm using a -> macro but I need to change the position of the value being passed around teh function. i seem to remember there being an as-> or something whcih allows you to define a var for the value being passed around. Does anyone recall this?
03:39	szymanowski	(as-> 1 x (inc x))
03:41	fredyr	,(doc as->)
03:41	clojurebot	"([expr name & forms]); Binds name to expr, evaluates the first form in the lexical context of that binding, then binds name to that result, repeating for each successive form, returning the result of the last form."
03:42	fredyr	or the diamond wand in swiss arrows, if you're looking for something even more funky
03:44	zoldar	szymanowski: do you have any practical example of a situation where a dispatch on arity would be needed?
03:45	eliyak	szymanowski: if you have control over all the functions involved, you could keep a record of how many args each takes in a Map. not sure if that's practical
03:47	szymanowski	the function that i want to implement maps over a hash-map, if single arity fun is passed then apply this fun to all keys and all values, else if the given fun is arity two, map each map entries with it
03:50	szymanowski	https://www.refheap.com/41209
03:50	szymanowski	i would like to merge those two functions
03:53	TEttinger	szymanowski, what about fns that take 1 arg or 2 args
03:53	TEttinger	or variable args
03:53	szymanowski	https://www.refheap.com/41209
03:53	szymanowski	just edit my paste
03:53	szymanowski	one helper function was missing
03:53	zoldar	szymanowski: just by the way, are you aware of reduce-kv?
03:54	szymanowski	i probably have to check that know
03:56	TEttinger	szymanowski, they seem like different concepts
03:56	TEttinger	not sure why you'd even want them under the same name
03:56	szymanowski	maybe you're right
03:56	szymanowski	:)
04:06	TEttinger	my interpretation would be ##(let [kv-map (fn [f coll] (into {} (mapv (fn [[& kv]] (mapv f kv)) coll)))] (kv-map inc {1 10 2 20 3 31}))
04:06	lazybot	⇒ {2 11, 3 21, 4 32}
04:12	dsrx	test test #(+ 1 3)
04:12	dsrx	test test ##(+ 1 3)
04:12	lazybot	⇒ 4
04:12	TEttinger	hey dsantiago
04:12	TEttinger	dsrx sorry
04:13	dsrx	###(+ 1 %)
04:13	lazybot	⇒ #<sandbox12094$eval21574$fn__21575 sandbox12094$eval21574$fn__21575@f21ab5>
04:13	dsrx	hello
04:13	TEttinger	,``[]
04:13	clojurebot	(clojure.core/apply clojure.core/vector (clojure.core/seq (clojure.core/concat)))
04:52	allenj12	hey im making a centroid fucntion and im a little stuck.. what would be the best way of taking in a vec of points [[1 1] [2 2] [3 5]] and returning the corresponding sums [6 8]
04:52	bars0	Hi all. I try to run nrepl in emacs but I got: "Lisp error: (wrong type argument stringp nil) get-buffer(nil) nrepl-sentile(#<process nrepl> "connection broken by remote peer"
04:53	bars0	I've copied my .emacs.d from windows to centos
04:53	bars0	on windows I hava oracle java 32 and on centos openjdk 64
04:53	bars0	Seems like emacs cannot get buffer name of nrepl
04:54	bars0	does anybody have same problem?
04:58	ivan	allenj12: (let [points [[1 1] [2 2] [3 5]]] [(reduce + (map first points)) (reduce + (map second points))])
04:58	bars0	Ok, when I start nrepl like this: M-x nrepl-jack-in, nrepl starts. But when I open .clj file first and then C-c M-j I've got error mentioned.
04:58	ivan	now wait a few seconds for someone to code golf that
04:59	allenj12	ivan: only works with specific dimension tho,
05:01	ivan	,(mapv #(reduce + %) (let [points [[1 1] [2 2] [3 5]]] (apply map vector points))) ; allenj12
05:01	clojurebot	[6 8]
05:02	allenj12	ivan: that will work!
05:10	quizdr	i'm trying to figure out how to require a namespace with an alias, except for one function, which is refer
05:13	alew	(:require [my.namespace :as me]) ?
05:14	quizdr	alew i figured it out. it uses both :as and :refer
05:15	quizdr	(:require [namesp :as myalias :refer [somefn]])
05:26	voldyman	how salable is hiccup? my web app will get 500 concurrent users for about an hour, i don't want it to fail
05:26	AeroNotix	what webserver does it user internally?
05:26	AeroNotix	or is it something custom?
05:26	AeroNotix	He
05:26	AeroNotix	Jetty will handle that with ease
05:26	voldyman	i'll run ningx in the front and lein ring uberjar
05:27	voldyman	since its luminus its jetty.
05:27	AeroNotix	So should be fine.
05:27	voldyman	AeroNotix: the only problem i faced was very high CPU usage when testing on my computer
05:27	AeroNotix	how did you test?
05:27	AeroNotix	how did you generate load?
05:27	AeroNotix	if it's all local, then you fail hard.
05:27	voldyman	umm, wrote a script to fetch 4 pages * 200 users concurrently
05:28	AeroNotix	Fail
05:28	AeroNotix	you cannot test webservers all on the same box and expect to find any meaninful results.
05:28	voldyman	AeroNotix: why?
05:28	AeroNotix	^
05:28	voldyman	i tried to run the same thing on a remote server to which caused the server to terminate the java process
05:28	AeroNotix	well this is different
05:29	AeroNotix	You mean you ran the jar remotely and generated load locally ?
05:29	voldyman	yes
05:29	AeroNotix	And what was the stacktracE?
05:29	voldyman	there was none, it was a message like [memory limit reached]
05:30	AeroNotix	What was the spec of the remote machine?
05:30	voldyman	(there was no nignx in front though)
05:30	voldyman	its a shared server, i plan to run this on a cheap 5$ VPS (512mb ram)
05:30	AeroNotix	Jetty uses a thread pool to scale load, afaik. So high peaks may cause high numbers of threads to spawn (do NOT quote me on that.)
05:31	AeroNotix	512mb ram for a JVM process is not going to cut it
05:31	voldyman	jvisualvm agrees with you
05:31	AeroNotix	especially if you have high numbers of concurrent users
05:31	voldyman	AeroNotix: where should i deploy, running cost is a bit thing
05:31	AeroNotix	Why?
05:31	clojurebot	Why is the ram gone
05:31	AeroNotix	if you have high peak, you have a need to spend money.
05:32	AeroNotix	You can't have ponies
05:32	AeroNotix	I would at least have 2gb for a server running a jvm process.
05:33	voldyman	AeroNotix: what specs would you recommend? or a PaaS?
05:33	voldyman	oh, that would be too costly
05:33	AeroNotix	AWS using whichever is 2GB.
05:33	AeroNotix	voldyman: what's the application doing?
05:33	AeroNotix	a 2GB box is pittance
05:33	voldyman	mostly fetching data from a sqlite db and generating hiccup/json response
05:34	voldyman	(i plan to move to Postgres or mysql later)
05:34	AeroNotix	voldyman: you know sqlite doesn't deal with concurrency well, right?
05:34	voldyman	yes,
05:34	AeroNotix	Good.
05:34	voldyman	its just for testing, can easily swap db's
05:34	AeroNotix	So, you have to choose between price and performance. You cannot, cannot, cannot, cannot have both.
05:34	AeroNotix	There are no free ponies in programming.
05:35	voldyman	AeroNotix: the only thing that bothers me is that if this were written in php or python, i wouldn't have faced any problems
05:35	AeroNotix	voldyman: you would also be writing in PHP
05:35	AeroNotix	so there's that
05:36	AeroNotix	It's an inherent problem with the JVM, very well known.
05:36	voldyman	i wanted to use lisp for real world applications but as you said there are no free ponies
05:36	voldyman	too well known
05:36	AeroNotix	Exactly. You're making the choice between horrible languages (Python's ok though) and a somewhat higher system requirements
05:37	voldyman	:( i spent a week writing this one and had planned another that was supposed to start an hour a go
05:38	AeroNotix	voldyman: just get a m3.medium on AWS. It's really cheap
05:39	Anderkent	AeroNotix: depending on the type of threadpools, peaks might either spawn additional threads or simply queue more jobs for the existing threads to pick up
05:39	AeroNotix	Anderkent: gotcha, ok
05:41	voldyman	AeroNotix: so to conclude, Jetty can handle 1000 connections easily, it just needs loads of RAM (?)
05:41	Anderkent	and yeah, I agree with the 2gb recommendation. Memory is cheap
05:41	AeroNotix	voldyman: pretty much, but 2gb isn't 'loads'
05:41	AeroNotix	it's a pretty trivial amount of memory
05:41	Anderkent	It's not even that. There's just a significant memory overhead; I wouldn't expect 1000 connections to eat much more ram than 10
05:41	AeroNotix	voldyman: is this a school project or something you don't have business funding for?
05:42	Anderkent	but running jvm on 512mb is an exercise in futility
05:42	voldyman	college project. no funding
05:42	Anderkent	run it on your home machine? :P
05:42	AeroNotix	Nice idea
05:42	zilti	Is there a way to execute a piece of code on the main thread while I'm on another thread?
05:42	voldyman	its for conducting tests around the college
05:43	voldyman	(+ i am in india, so internet is not good enough)
05:43	AeroNotix	Unfortunate but that is just your roll of the die in this world.
05:43	Anderkent	zilti: you'd have to have the main thread watch some kind of queue and pick up tasks from it.
05:43	Anderkent	voldyman: I think you can find a 2 gb vps much cheaper than amazon
05:44	AeroNotix	Digitalocean's is $20/mo
05:44	voldyman	Anderkent: that would be awesome
05:44	Anderkent	I'd expect 10$ / mo at most, probably 5
05:44	AeroNotix	Anderkent: lolwat
05:44	AeroNotix	where?
05:44	clojurebot	see logs
05:44	zilti	Because the problem I have is that Clojure seems to lose track of what's "require"d as soon as I'm on another thread
05:44	AeroNotix	zilti: post evidence
05:45	Anderkent	zilti: that's unlikely; are you maybe switching namespaces?
05:45	voldyman	oh shit, Anderkent i could run it on 5$ instance most of the time and switch to 2Gig instance and use hourly rantes
05:45	Anderkent	AeroNotix: quick google brings up http://www.2gbvps.com/ for example
05:45	zilti	AeroNotix: Well if this is not the normal behaviour (other thread wasn't started by Clojure code) then I have a problem with my code ^^
05:45	llasram	zilti: Which namespaces are loaded is definitely global
05:45	voldyman	Digitalocean 2gig vps is 0.030$/hr
05:46	llasram	zilti: How is the other thread started?
05:46	Anderkent	llasram: doesn't clojure use its own classloaders though?
05:46	Anderkent	if you start a thread in java you might not have access to that classloader? not sure, guessing here
05:46	llasram	There are some weird situations you can get into if you start calling Clojure code before the Clojure runtime is initialized (static class initializer)
05:46	zilti	llasram: If I haven't overlooked anything, by the Reactor framework (using Meltdown)
05:47	llasram	Anderkent: the custom class loaders are only used for defrecord/deftype by-name classes. You can get yourself in trouble with AOTed references to named classes, but normally not
05:47	zilti	llasram: So what's happening is that I have a function that gets called in a Meltdown thread apparently, and when evaluating code there Clojure can't resolve symbols relying on "require" statements in the ns-form
05:48	AeroNotix	zilti: can you reduce it to a test case?
05:48	llasram	zilti: By "evaluating" do you mean literally "calling `eval`"?
05:48	zilti	AeroNotix: Oof. Could get very tricky
05:48	zilti	llasram: Yes.
05:50	Anderkent	voldyman: AeroNotix: https://bluevm.com/cart.php?gid=42 scroll down to BLUE4, 2gb for $7USD/mo
05:50	llasram	zilti: Ah. Yeah, so the current namespace _is_ a per-thread-binding dynamic var (`ns`), and there is some complexity there.
05:50	zilti	llasram: Okay... Well I get back to tinkering around then. Thanks!
05:51	AeroNotix	Anderkent: and do you have root access on those?
05:51	Anderkent	AeroNotix: don't know
05:51	voldyman	Anderkent: woah thanks.
05:51	Anderkent	I mean I assume you get what you pay for, i.e. not much :P
05:51	llasram	zilti: Oh, no need to wander off. I just need to drink some more of this coffee before remembering how this works w/ `eval` :-)
05:51	AeroNotix	I'd probably re-evaluate whether I need eval in the first place.
05:51	Anderkent	llasram: zilti: surely (eval '(do (in-ns 'my.ns) (magic))) should work then?
05:52	llasram	Anderkent: Probably
05:52	zilti	Anderkent: Thanks, I'll try that!
05:52	llasram	Oh, no!
05:52	llasram	Well, maybe
05:53	AeroNotix	zilti: can you not solve the problem without eval?
05:53	zilti	llasram: ??
05:53	lazybot	zilti: Uh, no. Why would you even ask?
05:53	llasram	So in normal Clojure code you use syntax-quote, and the forms are expanded to the namespace active at compile time
05:53	llasram	So even though ns might be some arbitrary other namespace when `eval` actually runs, all the symbols are already expanded to point at what was available in the namespace of the code containing the `eval`
05:54	Anderkent	ha, fair point
05:55	zilti	AeroNotix: Hmm. Maybe, I don't know... I'd have to rewrite a lot of stuff
05:57	llasram	Anderkent: Quick REPL-checking suggests your approach works, which makes sense. If the symbols are not namespaced and not locals, the compiler resolves them against ns, and the `do` hack causes the compiler to consider each form w/in a `do` as a separate top-level form
05:57	llasram	zilti: So there you go! I am also curious though -- why `eval`?
05:58	zilti	Anderkent: Usin "in-ns" now gives me "IllegalStateException: Can't change/establish root binding of: ns with set"
05:58	Anderkent	llasram: but you'd expect it to work without (in-ns) if I used ` instead of '
05:59	zilti	llasram: Well I have a helper macro that writes a function which in turn uses the arguments given to add them to the code before evaluating it
05:59	llasram	zilti: Why not just have the macro-expanded code be compiled normally?
05:59	zilti	llasram: Here's the macro in question: https://www.refheap.com/41226
06:00	llasram	Oh my. You do not want this
06:00	zilti	Hmm.
06:01	Anderkent	,(.start (Thread. (fn [] (eval '(do (in-ns 'user) (println 'foo))))))
06:01	clojurebot	#<SecurityException java.lang.SecurityException: no threads please>
06:01	Anderkent	bah
06:01	Anderkent	anyway, that's a repro
06:01	llasram	zilti: You're using a macro to generate a function which calls `eval` every time the function is invoked?
06:01	zilti	llasram: Yes, it's invoked once for every UI element it has to generate
06:02	llasram	What is it about creating these elements which necessitates `eval`?
06:03	zilti	llasram: Basically 1. calling "cell" with the argument id# and 2. replacing those :%ID% things.
06:04	llasram	Ok, but why can't you do that in a function?
06:04	llasram	Why do you need to `eval` new code?
06:04	zilti	Well how else can I do it when I want to do it inside that macro?
06:05	AeroNotix	just call the function?
06:07	llasram	zilti: Maybe it would help if you also show an example use of this macro
06:10	zilti	llasram: Updated https://www.refheap.com/41226
06:12	llasram	zilti: I don't believe anything in the macro needs to be a macro, or the evals need to be evals
06:13	llasram	The pre-walk for the `cell` forms could just be a local function. The `%ID%` could just be a normal local identifier
06:14	zilti	llasram: How a local function? The 'cell' forms aren't necessarily on the top level, they can be scattered throughout a nested form
06:16	llasram	Yes, but lexically within the form. If that whole form were in a function which took a function-argument `cell`, then your `(cell ...)` forms would just be calls to that function
06:18	llasram	If you want to just hack `eval` to work -- you can try wrapping at some level with something like `(binding [ns ns] ...)`
06:18	llasram	But I think you're very much on the wrong track
06:18	zilti	llasram: You mean that the "cell" forms would be calls to another function (which they already are btw, cell is a function) to retrieve the id? I'd imagine hell of a lot of messy code for that?
06:19	llasram	zilti: Uh. Versus a macro which creates a `defn` which calls `eval`? :-)
06:20	zilti	llasram: about 20 lines of code versus probably 50 lines of complicated code?
06:21	zilti	llasram: Point is I can't really imagine what you have in mind
06:21	llasram	Alas, for lack of telepathy. I've exhausted my IRC helpfulness budget for the morning, I'm afraid, so at this point must just wish you luck!
06:22	zilti	Thanks
06:34	AeroNotix	is anyone using lein-ver?
06:35	AeroNotix	I'm having trouble with it telling me it cannot find the VERSION file in an uberjar
06:35	llasram	AeroNotix: Well, is VERSION ending up in your uberjar :-)
06:36	AeroNotix	llasram: looks like it, let me triple chjeck
06:37	llasram	Huh. That's an odd plugin. I'm not quite clear on the value
06:37	AeroNotix	llasram: it makes programmatically bumping versions easier
06:37	AeroNotix	so I can have my CI do the release/tag/deploy cycle for me
06:37	AeroNotix	and then be able to inject the version into my release artefact, too
06:37	AeroNotix	(well that's the idea)
06:38	llasram	So you let your CI system determine the version to release the artifact?
06:38	AeroNotix	llasram: no, my CI bumps the :patch version and deploys to stage
06:38	AeroNotix	I manually bump :minor/:major depending
06:38	AeroNotix	:minor when I release to prod
06:38	AeroNotix	:major when we hit a new release stage
06:39	llasram	Well, I consider bumping the minor to be "determining the version," but point taken
06:40	llasram	Is that how your CI/deploy/release cycle works for other languages?
06:40	AeroNotix	llasram: kind of, we homegrew the tooling for that since there are no tools out there for it (Erlang)
06:40	AeroNotix	llasram: and yes, the VERSION file is in the jar
06:41	AeroNotix	I jar xf'd the jar file and even read the VERSION file. So it's there.
06:41	AeroNotix	Caused by: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Not a file: jar:file:/home/xeno/dev/payments/target/payments-0.0.1-standalone.jar!/VERSION
06:41	sm0ke	hello hello
06:41	AeroNotix	llasram: I wonder what that !/ comes from?
06:42	llasram	AeroNotix: That's the syntax Java overlays on URLs to indicate a file w/in a jar
06:42	AeroNotix	llasram: ok, but the file is there.
06:42	llasram	But the error points at the problem
06:43	AeroNotix	llasram: which is?
06:43	llasram	The entry is in the JAR and (presumably) accessible by the URL, but is not a file
06:43	llasram	File == OS file on a filesystem
06:43	AeroNotix	ok
06:44	AeroNotix	hmm, so I think maybe this project didn't test with uberjars?
06:44	AeroNotix	because it works in `lein repl'
06:45	AeroNotix	as in, it should use getClass().getResource(...)
06:45	llasram	That seems very likely -- This code is broken: https://github.com/jgrocho/lein-ver/blob/master/src/lein_ver/version.clj#L5
06:45	llasram	AeroNotix: Well, it needs to do that effect, but not exactly that
06:45	AeroNotix	llasram: exactly what I was thinking
06:45	llasram	In the code posted, just dropping the `file` would work
06:46	AeroNotix	sec
06:46	llasram	`io/resource` does the `.getResource()`, returns a URL, which `io/reader` knows how to open
06:46	AeroNotix	ok gotcha
06:46	Anderkent	(inc llasram)
06:46	lazybot	⇒ 17
06:46	Anderkent	for going over budget
06:46	llasram	Haha
06:47	llasram	I got curious about the CI deployment process :-)
06:47	Anderkent	yeah I need to figure that out myself, currently doing everything by hand and that seems error prone
06:47	AeroNotix	llasram: it works for us. It means that we always know what's running in production.
06:47	Anderkent	plus, having travisci push snapshot builds from master would be so nice
06:47	AeroNotix	Anderkent: it is (though we use jenkins)
06:48	AeroNotix	llasram: yeah that fixed it
06:48	allenj12	hey, ive been using clojure for a while now and ive been mainly using light table for learning and its been great. but i wanna move on to a more advanced editor. ive never used either emacs or vim before but would one be better for clojure than the other?
06:49	llasram	I considered having our system manage versions, but rejected it for libraries, in part because it seems to be very uncommon and little tooling for any language supports automatically altering versions
06:49	Anderkent	mildly off-topic: I always feel so naughty when I hand-edit a third party clojure jar in my maven repo just to try something out. Tee-hee
06:49	cark	allenj12 : emacs is easier to get into and has probably better support for clojure
06:49	Anderkent	allenj12: I think the consensus is that emacs is a bit better, but probably not enough for someone well versed in vim to switch. They both get the job dnone
06:49	jonathanj	ivan: that solution you gave earlier (summing columns in a matrix) seems kind of verbose, is there not a less wordy solution?
06:49	Anderkent	(said as a vim user)
06:49	llasram	I'm pretty happy with where I ended up though -- libraries have version numbers managed by humans, but just changing the version number in a commit triggers a release
06:50	Anderkent	llasram: oh, that's pretty cool. Is that specific to some ci system?
06:50	cark	allenj12 : there is also an eclipse plugin which is now very good
06:50	allenj12	hmm cool so ill try emacs then. emacs dosnt have live coding just to make sure right?
06:50	jonathanj	ivan: my Python solution ended up being pretty terse, surprisingly: map(sum, zip(*[[1, 1], [2, 2], [3, 5]]))
06:51	allenj12	cark: hmm cool ill check that one out to
06:51	Anderkent	allenj12: not to the same degree as LT, I think
06:51	cark	allenj12 : the name of the plugin is counterclockwize
06:51	llasram	Anderkent: It's specific to the company-internal CI tooling glue I wrote, yeah :-)
06:51	Anderkent	bah :P
06:51	Anderkent	have you not heard of code reuse!? I'd totally like to reuse your code. :P
06:52	allenj12	Anderkent: dam :( lol i guess it will be good enough tho although i really will miss it
06:52	cark	allenj12 : in emacs, you have a live repl and completion using cider
06:52	allenj12	cark: ahh kk, would you recommend eclipse or emacs if im split on the two?
06:52	Anderkent	well, eclipse is easier to get started with I'd think
06:53	llasram	Anderkent: Haha. I've thought a few times about cleaning it up for an open source release, but I'm not sure how general it is. It pretty directly codifies all of my teams practices w/o much room for customization
06:53	cark	allenj12 : i'm using emacs... but it's surely isn't as easy to get into than eclipse
06:53	AeroNotix	point and click to create codez
06:53	Anderkent	llasram: my general answer to such questions is publish it anyway, even if it's too specific it can serve as a template for other people to start with
06:53	cark	allenj12: in particular, the setup is quite a lengthy process
06:54	allenj12	Anderkent: what about long term tho will i be happier with emacs? i have an easy semester so jumping into a bunch of things like slackware
06:54	allenj12	cark: o i see
06:54	cark	allenj12:long term, go for emacs ... it will serve you well over the years
06:54	cark	not only for clojure
06:54	Anderkent	allenj12: depends. Are you planning to do java development? then you want to learn eclipse (or intellij) anyway. Are you planning to manage your life email and stuff from emacs? Then learn emacs :P
06:55	Anderkent	*life, email, and stuff
06:55	sm0ke	llasram: hello, do you have plans for providing a higher level api on top of abracad?
06:55	cark	but then again, if talking long term... vim is worth learning too =)
06:55	llasram	sm0ke: In what sense?
06:55	Anderkent	more seriously, I recommend learning at least one command line editor for at least basic competency, they make life easier
06:55	llasram	sm0ke: I've quietly added a few under-documented schema-definition helpers
06:55	AeroNotix	Anderkent: nano
06:56	sm0ke	llasram: like consolidating data files, vertical partitioning data according to schema
06:56	Anderkent	AeroNotix: eh, if you have to. the point is being able to do simple changes to config files / whatever on a bare system
06:56	Anderkent	reading logs, debugging data issues, etc.
06:57	allenj12	Anderkent: lol nano :) but yea i think i will give emacs a try then. i mean light table is pretty minimalistic so i doubt it will take me long to get me back at that point
06:57	llasram	sm0ke: I hadn't considered it before, but a datafile-consolidation function might make sense -- that's something I find myself doing relatively frequently on the results of MR jobs. Not sure what you mean by the latter though
06:58	cark	allenj12:follow the install info from the cider github page to the letter and it should go qell
06:58	cark	well*
06:58	mark[oz]	hey guys... just curious how i can use a function in my core.clj file (namespace is robot.core) in the REPL in my lein project and call a defined function (read-file) ??
06:58	lazybot	mark[oz]: Uh, no. Why would you even ask?
06:59	allenj12	cark: awsome thanks!!
06:59	sm0ke	llasram: so if a avro schema is type which is union of many subtypes it would be great i could write data to a path , and each subtype goes to its own directry
06:59	sm0ke	llasram: like namespace/typename
06:59	llasram	Oh. Huh
06:59	llasram	I don't know... That one feels out-of-scope to me, but that may just be because I haven't needed it :-)
06:59	Anderkent	mark[oz]: run (use 'robot.core) in your repl
07:00	sm0ke	llasram: also i wanted to ask if you are using it atop hdfs?
07:00	llasram	sm0ke: Yep
07:00	Anderkent	mark[oz]: or you can tell lein that robot.core is your main ns and then it'll automatically load it and switch to it when you start a repl
07:00	llasram	sm0ke: Ooof, which is something I need to add -- right now there isn't a clean way to read Avro files directly from HDFS
07:01	llasram	sm0ke: I keep working around it using Parkour's ability to `reduce` a dseq backed by an Avro Hadoop InputFormat
07:01	quizdr	if you are interested in the side effects of the map function in a map rather than the actual sequence that map returns, then you should just wrap map in dorun, right? or is there a better alternative?
07:01	mark[oz]	Anderkent: I've set :main in my project.clj file, and when i load the repl the namespace is robot.core =>
07:01	Anderkent	then you should be able to just call your functions in there
07:01	sm0ke	llasram: oh ok thats right, but write is fully supported?
07:01	mark[oz]	Anderkent: but when i (read-file "afile") I receive "CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: read-file in this context"
07:02	AeroNotix	llasram: aha, stupidly I just sent a pull request for this change. But it seems it's already there. Weirdly it's not up on clojars, they probably forgot to do a release.
07:02	mark[oz]	Anderkent: I've defined read-file like so (defn read-file [] (dostuffhere))
07:02	sm0ke	llasram: so how is that the data-file-wrtier can be given a hdfs:// path too?
07:02	llasram	sm0ke: Yeah, write is fine. Avro can write to any old OutputStream, but needs it's own SeekableInput for input
07:02	Anderkent	mark[oz]: do you get any errors on repl startup? I'd check for typos
07:03	llasram	sm0ke: Well, you can open an output-stream on it via any of the HDFS interfaces. I forget if Hadoop registers a Java URL handler for `hdfs://`, although I think those are read-only?
07:04	llasram	sm0ke: And Parkour adds Hadoop `Path` handlers to the Clojure IO functions, so you can just call `io/output-stream` on a `Path`
07:04	mark[oz]	Anderkent: I've got an error I'm trying to work through in that file. It's not within that function though... will an error in one function render each function within that namespace unavailable?
07:04	Anderkent	mark[oz]: it might if it stops the namespace from compiling
07:05	sm0ke	llasram: nice, is that done internally via extend-type?
07:05	llasram	AeroNotix: Huh, really? The github link I sent was from me just poking at the source in master. That's weird
07:05	mark[oz]	Anderkent: thanks.. I'll have another look at cleaning that namespace up
07:06	llasram	sm0ke: Yep -- clojure.java.io internally uses a few protocols and type-based multimethods for everything, so they're all extensible to new types
07:07	sm0ke	llasram: so i wanted to ask if it makes sense if instead of writing to individual files, abracad can write datafiles to a folder location? which could be then merged into each other
07:07	sm0ke	llasram: i mean apart from writing to*
07:09	mark[oz]	Anderkent: you were right. it was a compilation error... thanks for your help
07:09	llasram	sm0ke: I'm not really clear on what that would mean, and I don't think it's a use-case I've had yet myself. Is this something you're doing currently yourself?
07:11	sm0ke	llasram: yea kind of, i just think that append to a single file is not as efficent as writing to a number of files and moving them under a common location
07:11	sm0ke	llasram: although i may be wrong,
07:11	Anderkent	sm0ke: shouldn't matter unless your file system is degenerate
07:12	Anderkent	uhm, or unless you have tons of threads competing for access to the file I guess
07:12	allenj12	cark: hey cider has it own keybindings im assuming?
07:12	llasram	sm0ke: Yeah, like if you have multiple threads?
07:13	sm0ke	llasram: yes, which is typical if you filesystem is hdfs, which is meant to have writes from different machines probabaly at same time too
07:13	llasram	sm0ke: You can already just have each thread write to a file in a directory, so yeah -- just not quite picturing what extra functionality in Abracad would do
07:13	sm0ke	llasram: well yea abracad does what its supposed to, its clean
07:13	llasram	sm0ke: I see. For that case, for all my uses so far, I'm producing that sort of output from Hadoop MapReduce, which handles that layer for me
07:14	llasram	Are you manually distributing tasks across a cluster somehow?
07:14	sm0ke	llasram: so how do you write data to hdfs which you are using in your mapred jobs?
07:15	llasram	sm0ke: Most of our ETL processes are themselves MR jobs :-)
07:16	atyz	szymanowski: thanks, I got distracted taking my father to the airport
07:16	szymanowski	np :)
07:17	llasram	sm0ke: For our main data feed, our appliances push data to S3. I have an MR job which gets a list of S3 URLs as input, then reads them, parses the binary format, and emits normal MR output to the Avro output format
07:18	llasram	We do have one feed which locally writes out files, but that one is relatively tiny -- just one serial process keeps up with it fine
07:19	sm0ke	llasram: makes sense, i see you do not really require to handle writes to S3
07:20	llasram	Yeah. We just use S3 as a reliable hand-off location. Amazon has better uptime than we care to manage at the moment :-)
07:20	sm0ke	llasram: makes sense, thanks
07:21	llasram	np
07:21	sm0ke	llasram: so you mapred cluster also runs on aws ?
07:22	sm0ke	your*
07:24	sm0ke	hmm stupid question. it should, it would take insane amount of time for mappers otherwise to fetch blocks
07:31	llasram	sm0ke: Actually, no. We just bounce the data through S3, so everything after the initial ETL job uses local cluster storage
07:34	sm0ke	llasram: so the whole data is copied on s3 as well as locally?
07:35	llasram	sm0ke: Kind of? It just passes through S3. We delete the S3 version after copying it down into our local cluster
07:35	sm0ke	hmmm, whats the denefit of having s3 in between then?
07:36	sm0ke	benefit*
07:36	sm0ke	i mean you are not useing it as data backup also
07:37	llasram	Just uptime of the service. The appliances need something to push to. We'll eventually just provide a service ourselves for them to push to directly, but right now there are other things we want to spend time on instead of making a reliable upload service which handle large bandwidth bursts
07:38	sm0ke	hmm makes sense
07:38	sm0ke	specailly with the recent ddos attacks,
07:38	sm0ke	500GB is normal they say
07:40	mark[oz]_	hey guys, one last question before i get to bed. when I lein repl, I can (-main) and I get some output due to the println, but when i run it from the command line I don't get anything. http://pastie.org/8745170 is the code... can someone explain what's going on here?
07:41	llasram	mark[oz]_: `for` returns a lazy sequence. When you run it in the REPL, the REPL forces the sequence to print it, causing the `println`s to evaluate. When run from the command-line, nothing forces the evaluation, so nothing happens
07:41	llasram	mark[oz]_: Try changing `for` to `doseq`
07:41	sm0ke	one last question , llasram , how is the data copied into local systems is it incremental or batch?
07:42	llasram	sm0ke: Batch right now. It's uploaded in batch, so it (mostly) makes sense to retrieve in batch
07:43	sm0ke	llasram: no i mean, batch as in the WHOLE data is copied again or just new batches of data
07:43	llasram	Um, the latter :-p
07:43	sm0ke	haha
07:43	mark[oz]_	llasram: thanks for the explanation! that makes sense
07:43	sm0ke	ok thanks
07:43	sm0ke	later!
07:44	llasram	later!
07:57	mdrogalis	Morning.
08:05	CookedGryphon	Hey, does anybody have any ideas about how to profile core.async code in a sensible sort of a way
08:06	CookedGryphon	without just firing up visualvm - i find the output pretty incomprehensible
08:07	CookedGryphon	I sort of want to look at it from a go-block level, see what is doing a lot (i.e. I have written badly and is spinning in a loop) vs sitting there locked, etc
08:07	CookedGryphon	can I get at the underlying state machine and track that sort of thing?
08:19	Anderkent]lunch	CookedGryphon: hm, you could try timbre, but I think you'd have to manually expand the profiling macros (because async won't let you do (profile (<! chan foo))
08:19	CookedGryphon	Anderkent]lunch: wouldn't that be weird, because it would be split across invocations of the state machine.......
08:19	CookedGryphon	or something
08:20	CookedGryphon	also, I don't really want to go through allll my code inserting (profile ...), because then I would want to remove it
08:20	CookedGryphon	and i'd like to leave this as an option to turn on and look at at any time
08:20	Anderkent	with timbre you don't have to remove it, you just change your logging level and it goes away :
08:21	Anderkent	I think the state machine would be transparent to timbre
08:21	Anderkent	i.e. it'd track time spent while parked as time of execution
08:21	Anderkent	hard to say if that's what you want or not
08:21	CookedGryphon	Anderkent: yeah, that's really not what I want
08:22	CookedGryphon	doing that, the most efficient functions which just sit there parked would show up as taking most time!
08:22	Anderkent	sure, so just look for functions with most invocations rather than most time spent
08:22	Anderkent	or don't wrap parking ops in profile
08:24	CookedGryphon	hmm
08:24	Anderkent	I guess I'm not sure what you're trying to find out; intuitively the costly functions (i.e. ones worth profiling) shouldnt live in go blocks, just be called from one. Is that intuition wrong?
08:25	CookedGryphon	yes that's correct - if I have coded it right :P
08:25	Anderkent	I haven't used core.async much, but always thought of it more as a communication mechanism than a processing engine
08:25	Anderkent	ah :P
08:25	CookedGryphon	the situation that's made me think of this
08:25	CookedGryphon	is I currently have a system which is getting hot while it should be idling
08:25	Anderkent	hm. Log more? :P
08:25	CookedGryphon	making me think that in one of my go-loops I'm accidentally recurring without doing any work
08:25	CookedGryphon	so it just spins
08:26	CookedGryphon	which would be easy to see if I could keep track of what's recurring when
08:26	CookedGryphon	I might just write a variation on go-loop which does just this
08:26	Anderkent	right, I see your point. You could swap your go blocks for thread blocks and then use a jvm profiler to see where the threads are spinning
08:26	CookedGryphon	tracks the number of invocations and sends it off to riemann or something
08:27	CookedGryphon	I'm actually on android, and the profiling isn't great
08:27	Anderkent	I guess I don't know how big your app is; my intuition is just go read your code :P
08:27	Anderkent	but if thats not feasible, sorry; can't help you
08:28	CookedGryphon	I think I'm going to tweak a go block
08:46	szymanowski	is there a way to have wildcard in multimethod dispatch values?
08:46	szymanowski	does core.match can help on this?
08:46	Anderkent	szymanowski: as in just a catch-all method? use :default as the value
08:47	szymanowski	yes i know that but it would be great to have wildcards
08:49	Anderkent	hm, can you provide an example? I guess I've never bothered with complicated hierarchy multimethod (always exact match, either on keyword or class)
08:49	mdrogalis	szymanowski: Arbitrary wild cards in multimethods: no
08:50	szymanowski	ok is there any implementations of sush a feature somewhere?
08:50	szymanowski	such
08:51	mdrogalis	szymanowski: Not that I'm aware of. But there might be.
08:51	Anderkent	I don't think so; seems a very weird thing to do to me
08:51	szymanowski	why?
08:51	clojurebot	szymanowski: because you can't handle the truth!
08:52	Anderkent	it just doesnt fit the way I think of multimethods, I suppose.
08:53	szymanowski	you're maybe right i will think more about it
09:24	quizdr	is it necessary to compile a source file before you require it another source file? the require call itself will not compile it for you?
09:24	quizdr	it appears to be the case.
09:25	stuartsierra	quizdr: `require` will compile & load the source file for you. `compile` is only necessary for Ahead-of-Time (AOT) compilation, which saves compiled .class files on disk.
09:26	sritchie	seangrove: hey; I'm working through it now, I can show you the not-quite-working-yet code
09:26	sritchie	seangrove: https://github.com/paddleguru/om-timer
09:26	quizdr	stuartsierra i get symbol not found errors relating to functions in a required namespace. when i go into that required namespace's source file and do a control-c control-k to compile that file, then go back to my original file, the issue is resolved.
09:27	Anderkent	quizdr: was that file required before and then edited? `require` will not reload a file from disk if it's already been loaded
09:28	stuartsierra	quizdr: clean out your compiled files (lein clean) and start a new repl
09:29	quizdr	stuartsierra anderkent would it make a difference that this other file I am requiring has been "lein install"ed previously and is not in my current project? would that require that I compile it separately?
09:30	sritchie	quizdr: that can happen from AOT compilation
09:31	quizdr	sritchie so when i restart a repl i will probably need to recompile any sources that are not in my project but i am requiring, yes? I assume AOT is in play here since perhaps that is what lein install does?
09:31	sritchie	quizdr: I've only seen that problem show up when AOT compilation's at play, yes
09:32	sritchie	and only then when you have some dependency mismatch
09:32	sritchie	(ie, you have a diamond dep, where you're requiring some version of a library, and the code you're requiring is compiled against a different version)
09:32	sritchie	if you fix the mismatch in your project or remove the AOT compilation you won't have to recompile
09:35	CookedGryphon	aphyr: Hey, I'm trying to use your riemann-clojure-client and I'm getting an issue when I AOT compile because IDref is defined twice - once in clojure and once in the riemann-java-client
09:36	CookedGryphon	is that okay on the jvm? (I'm using android + dexer which complains and falls over)
09:38	Anderkent	is that IDref with the same qualified name? Then I would expect it to break in every jvm
09:38	Anderkent	(if they're loaded in the same classloader)
09:38	CookedGryphon	Anderkent: yeah it appears to be exactly the same name
09:39	Anderkent	except riemann-clojure-client seems to depend on riemann-java-client and not define its own IDref
09:39	Anderkent	so I think you're having a classpath issue or something
09:41	CookedGryphon	IDref is a clojure class - clojure.lang.IDRef
09:42	CookedGryphon	which riemann-java-client seems to have pulled in
09:42	Anderkent	hm, can you post exactly what error you're getting?
09:43	CookedGryphon	UNEXPECTED TOP-LEVEL EXCEPTION:
09:43	CookedGryphon	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: already added: Lclojure/lang/IDeref;
09:43	Anderkent	on refheap pastebin or whatever
09:43	CookedGryphon	there's a stacktrace, but it's just internal dexer stack
09:43	Anderkent	do you know what your exact classpath is?
09:44	Anderkent	do you for example have multiple versions of clojure on your cp?
09:44	CookedGryphon	I already said, this is defined in riemann-java-client (a dependency of riemann-clojure-client) as well as in clojure itself
09:45	CookedGryphon	so I want to know if this works for anyone
09:45	Anderkent	ah, right I see it now
09:46	Anderkent	that's a very weird thing to do
09:47	Anderkent	it does load for me on the jvm, the secondary implementation is probably never picked up
09:48	Anderkent	i.e. when the jvm is looking for a clojure.java.lang.IDeref.class file on the classpath, it finds it in the clojure jar and stops looking
09:54	dnolen_	sritchie: btw, it's not possible to reproduce your issues, even with lein cljsbuild auto, timer button always works for me.
09:54	sritchie	dnolen_: yeah, saw that note - I get it every time, even after nuking .repl, out, target, lein cljsbuild clean -
09:54	dnolen_	sritchie: I'm inclined to close your ticket. One thought is that weird stuff happens if you have multiple lein cljsbuilds running at the same time - easy for this to happen.
09:54	dnolen_	sritchie: whatever it is, I'm very skeptical it's Om related.
09:54	dnolen_	sritchie: but hard to tell you have a complex setup and not a minimal case.
09:55	sritchie	dnolen_: yeah, trying to reduce it now. Thanks a lot for taking a look, and feel free to close - I'm working on pushing the example to heroku,
09:55	sritchie	and cleaning out my .lein/profiles.clj
09:55	sritchie	to make sure no extra code is getting in the mix. still shows up every time for me
09:55	dnolen_	sritchie: Chrome?
09:55	sritchie	yeah, and firefox
09:57	dnolen_	sritchie: yep if I edit, wait for recompile and refresh Chrome & FF, I can always start stop the timer
09:57	sritchie	and no errors in the console?
09:57	dnolen_	sritchie: no errors
09:57	sritchie	dnolen_: the timer was toggling, and I'd see the numbers change like they're supposed to,
09:58	dnolen_	sritchie: I do a goog.string multiple require error when the app loads, but seems unrelated to whatever problem you are having.
09:58	sritchie	there's something goofed about my setup, whether it's the way I initialize cljsbuild auto and lein repl :headless in separate terminals,
09:58	sritchie	or the repl process...
09:58	sritchie	yeah, I see that too, but that showed up when things were working as well
09:59	dnolen_	sritchie: k closing for now, feel free to open a ticket you have a more minimal case. More than happy to take a look when you do.
09:59	sritchie	dnolen_: you know, maybe it's the different clojurescript versions from austin.
09:59	dnolen_	sritchie: I don't use Austin - so that might be it?
10:00	dnolen_	sritchie: gotta say Austin really needs to support :none, your builds are criminally slow
10:00	dnolen_	11-13 seconds for me
10:00	dnolen_	should be .03 seconds
10:00	dnolen_	cemerick: ^
10:00	sritchie	yeah? that may just be my config goof.
10:00	dnolen_	sritchie: Austin doesn't work with :none
10:01	sritchie	dnolen_: austin was in my lein config, so this may be a JVM classloading issue
10:01	sritchie	whichever cljs wins...
10:01	dnolen_	sritchie: yeah, Om needs 2156
10:01	cemerick	dnolen_: where are builds 11s?
10:01	sritchie	but yeah, thanks a lot for looking. I'll be much more suspicious of config going forward and try to isolate that stuff before reporting. will let you know how the investigation proceeds
10:02	dnolen_	cemerick: :whitespace + sourcemaps
10:02	sritchie	cemerick: yup
10:05	dnolen_	sritchie: fwiw, seems like a lot of people are using Om now, when I introduce a bug I get reports pretty quickly :)
10:05	Anderkent	dnolen_: hey, om looks cool! I saw that before but I didn't hear of react so I just figured it was an interface to some facebook api after the first line of the readme and stopped reading. Not sure if that might have happened to someone else before and is thus worth fixing!
10:05	invasmani	Om is great, thanks for all of your hard work
10:05	sritchie	dnolen_: yeah, our current stuff is in "reactive" style, and most of the code is watches and state updates
10:05	dnolen_	invasmani: no problem, thx
10:06	sritchie	dnolen_: this is a huge win
10:07	dnolen_	Anderkent: I'll think about it, but I think React is making some waves so not long before most people know what it is :)
10:07	cemerick	dnolen_: Where does that compile time come from in the context of a browser-REPL interaction?
10:08	dnolen_	cemerick: Austin requires at least :whitespace optimizations no?
10:08	Anderkent	dnolen_: I think just changing the first line to something like 'A clojurescript UI library built on top of Facebook's React' would mostly do it
10:09	cemerick	dnolen_: Rumor has it; but, surely it's not 11s per expression beign eval'd?
10:10	cemerick	I've used source maps ~twice, so I'm generally not aware of the impact they have on the compilation process.
10:10	dnolen_	cemerick: it's significant, I think most people at this point use source maps all the time.
10:10	dnolen_	including myself.
10:11	sritchie	oh, yeah, nice. with :none, 0.76 seconds per change.
10:11	cemerick	dnolen_: yeah ok; but, where does the 11s-13s come from?
10:11	dnolen_	cemerick: :whitespace + source maps
10:11	cemerick	dnolen_: you mean in the context of cljsbuild auto?
10:11	dnolen_	cemerick: yep
10:12	cemerick	ok; what does that have to do with austin?
10:12	dnolen_	cemerick: do you think that people don't run REPL & auto at the same time?
10:12	cemerick	cljsbuild supports :none, source maps, etc
10:12	sritchie	cemerick: does austin support :none?
10:13	cemerick	dnolen_: it's never occurred to me, but they're in different processes, and have different configurations.
10:13	dnolen_	cemerick: oh ok, so Austin doesn't require you to build your own source with :whitespace?
10:13	cemerick	dnolen_: goodness no
10:13	michaniskin	dnolen_: cemerick: i'm using cljsc but not via lein-cljsbuild, and i'm seeing ~3sec compile times for one changed cljs source file, when it used to be a few hundred msec at most. i'm carefully preserving last-modified times of source files, i think. where should i look for issues that could slow down the cljs build?
10:14	dnolen_	cemerick: ok good to know - I was completely baffled by earlier conversation. Thanks for the clarification.
10:14	cemerick	dnolen_: That is, the austin server-side part has its own compilation env with its own compiler options; those need to be :whitespace/:simple, but that just doesn't matter in the REPL context.
10:15	cemerick	:cljsbuild configs can have :advanced, :none, whatever, and have no impact on austin's operation
10:15	quizdr	when I ctrl-c ctrl-k a source file, why would another source file in the same directory not be found on classpath if I require that file? the namespace name is indeed correct, but I get an error that the clj file could not be located.
10:15	cemerick	sritchie: not AFAIK, though it's been a long time since I've tried
10:15	dnolen_	michaniskin: if you're not using lein cljsbuild than your need to preserve compiler environment between builds to get incremental compilation benefits
10:15	dnolen_	cemerick: got it
10:15	michaniskin	dnolen_: by "compiler environment" you mean the temp files in :output-dir?
10:16	cemerick	michaniskin: no; see cljs.env
10:16	dnolen_	michaniskin: no, the atom that holds analysis information needs to be bound.
10:16	michaniskin	cemerick: dnolen_: oh awesome thanks!
10:16	dnolen_	michaniskin: (cljs.env/with-compiler-env compiler-atom (cljs.closure/build ...))
10:16	cemerick	michaniskin: :-)
10:16	michaniskin	you guys just saved me who knows how much time. thanks!
10:17	cemerick	michaniskin: tribal knowledge FTW ;-P
10:17	cemerick	dnolen_: BTW, I have a patch ready for 656, but I wonder if you have any input re: my prior comment?
10:18	dnolen_	cemerick: yeah I saw that, will need to think about it for a little bit, will respond on the ticket.
10:18	quizdr	does your project.clj need to list as a dependency all the namespaces created in the same project's src/ directory?
10:18	cemerick	dnolen_: ok; I'll put a prospective patch on there anyway
10:19	cemerick	quizdr: no
10:20	quizdr	cemerick any idea what would cause a filenotfound exception when you require a namespace that is in the same src dir, just a different file?
10:20	cemerick	quizdr: typo, wrong filename extension, mismatch in filename and ns declaration
10:22	quizdr	cemeric thanks, obvious ideas that i've triple checked.
10:23	quizdr	cemerick could a hypen in a clj filename cause a problem?
10:23	quizdr	*hyphen
10:23	S11001001	quizdr: yeah; hyphens code as underscores when filenamifying
10:23	cemerick	quizdr: hyphens in namespaces need to be underscores in filenames
10:24	quizdr	ah ha! thanks guys
10:32	sritchie	dnolen_: fwiw, here's a recreation of the bug on heroku
10:32	sritchie	http://omtimer.herokuapp.com/timer
10:32	sritchie	dnolen_: no one seems to be stomping the cljs version
10:32	dnolen_	sritchie: your markup seems very problematic to me
10:33	dnolen_	React & your code loaded twice
10:33	sritchie	oh, that's a pretty huge neon sign, and almost certainly the problem
10:34	lvh	Hi
10:35	lvh	if I have a function that's more or less analogous to map, except it's doing multiple funcs over one coll (in a slightly involved way; I can't just spell it as "comp"), is it bad form to have the funcs arg come after the coll arg?
10:38	sritchie	dnolen_: fixed, and the goog.string error's gone too
10:38	ambrosebs	lvh: in most sequence functions, the collection comes last. good for threading with ->>
10:38	ambrosebs	lvh: that said, the threading macros have improved, so this is less of an issue
10:39	quizdr	is it better or more idiomatic to wrap a map function in dorun or use doseq if i need side effects created from items in a collection?
10:39	quizdr	i use map so much, that i also use it for side effects and often wrap with dorun, but now i'm wondering if this is a bad habit.
10:40	lvh	ambrosebs: Cool. So, inthis function, I should swap the args? https://gist.github.com/lvh/7b018a90cdafd119dc41
10:40	ambrosebs	,(doc dorun)
10:40	clojurebot	"([coll] [n coll]); When lazy sequences are produced via functions that have side effects, any effects other than those needed to produce the first element in the seq do not occur until the seq is consumed. dorun can be used to force any effects. Walks through the successive nexts of the seq, does not retain the head and returns nil."
10:40	ambrosebs	quizdr: do you mean doall?
10:40	Anderkent	on the other hand update-in etc. take the collection first
10:41	ambrosebs	quizdr: oh I see. I use doseq for side effects.
10:41	quizdr	ambrosebs no, dorun. the difference is that doall retains the head, which i wouldn't usually need.
10:41	Anderkent	quizdr: dorun is explicitly made for lazy seqs of side effects. It's okay to do that
10:42	quizdr	ok Anderkent i just find it easier to wrap a map in it than to pull out the doseq bindings. maybe like the sequence, i too am lazy?
10:47	lvh	Hi! How can I get a sorted list of [[(f x0) x0] ... ] given xs?
10:47	lvh	It's almost map, except not quite...
10:48	lvh	zipmap almost does what I want, I guess I can build a map and then seq it?
10:51	joegallo	,(partition 2 [:a 1 :b 2 :c 3])
10:51	clojurebot	((:a 1) (:b 2) (:c 3))
10:56	arohner	anyone remember that crazy ruby blog post where the guy monkeypatched everything to be in the same class? I'm trying to google for it and failing horribly
10:56	AeroNotix	arohner: I think that was titled: "How to be a moron"
10:56	arohner	well, my goal is to make fun of ruby :-)
10:56	AeroNotix	arohner: ruby doesn't need your help
11:01	szymanowski	what is the simplest way to create a function that always return true?
11:01	dnolen_	szymanowski: (constantly true)
11:01	szymanowski	great thank you
11:04	cemerick	dnolen_: I have a JS library I'd like to use that uses some reserved words as property names, which gclosure complains about. Would like to provide a compiler option corresponding to the constants in CompilerOptions.LanguageMode. Reasonable?
11:04	dnolen_	cemerick: pretty sure there's an existing ticket for this
11:04	cemerick	dnolen_: ok, I'll track it down and put something together
11:05	dnolen_	cemerick: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJS-743
11:05	cemerick	oh, even better
11:08	oskarkv	If I want to deref a reference and then set it without anyone else setting it inbetween, should I use a ref in a transaction? Or is there a way with an atom?
11:08	AeroNotix	oskarkv: ref+dosync
11:08	oskarkv	ok thx
11:11	hhenkel	Hi all...quick question...I managed to get a lazy-seq and now I'm wondering how to iterate over it...
11:11	hhenkel	I guess the key is doall?
11:12	oskarkv	hhenkel there are many ways, using map, reduce, loop/recur do name a few
11:12	oskarkv	to*
11:12	oskarkv	hhenkel what do you want to do with it?
11:13	hhenkel	oskarkv: first let me descibe what is in the lazy-seq...I read json data from a file, merge those data into each other and get it as a lazy-seq.
11:14	hhenkel	oskarkv: This seq holds config data for servers from which I want to create recuring jobs via at-at
11:14	hhenkel	Therefore I think I have to iterate over all items.
11:15	borkdude	hhenkel there are many functions that iterate over sequences
11:15	borkdude	hhenkel map, filter, reduce, etc
11:16	borkdude	hhenkel it depends on what you want to do
11:16	oskarkv	like one job for each element? Then maybe (map create-job the-seq), and if there are side-effects then use doall/dorun
11:16	oskarkv	hhenkel ^
11:16	borkdude	hhenkel doall is only used to realize all elements in a lazy seq
11:17	hhenkel	oskarkv: I don't think that I got side-effects as I want to schedule my network request with at-at (running in threads as far as I know).
11:18	hhenkel	I guess I was looking for something much more complicated then a simple (map create-job my-lazy-seq).... ;)
11:21	`cbp	hhenkel: (doseq [config my-lazy-seq] (create-job config))
11:25	hhenkel	oskarkv: `cbp: If I try your suggestions it seems like no data is given to my function.
11:25	hhenkel	I'll paste it in a min
11:29	hhenkel	oskarkv:
11:29	hhenkel	`cbp: https://www.refheap.com/41527
11:30	oskarkv	hhenkel you have missed a (
11:30	oskarkv	before the function, look at `cbp's example
11:32	hhenkel	oskarkv: yes, you're right....and what about your map example?
11:33	oskarkv	hhenkel but with map it should have worked. but note that the result of map is also a lazy seq, nothing will happen with it right away
11:33	hhenkel	oskarkv: I tried it with the same pprint function...
11:33	oskarkv	how?
11:33	clojurebot	with style and grace
11:34	hhenkel	It also looks like something is still wrong with my data...is it possible that I managed to create a lazy-seq within a lazy-seq?
11:34	oskarkv	yes that certainly possible :P
11:35	hhenkel	oskarkv: It's also in tn the refheap.
11:35	oskarkv	hhenkel I don't see any pprint in the code there :P
11:36	hhenkel	oskarkv: yes...the trace...sorry.
11:36	hhenkel	oskarkv: Also added the function that works on my data...
11:36	hhenkel	...any hint how to not have to lazy-seq?
11:37	oskarkv	if you swapped trace for pprint? The schedule-request function will not run, because map is lazy.
11:37	oskarkv	(dorun (map ...))
11:37	oskarkv	or, doall if you want to retain it
11:39	hhenkel	oskarkv: missed the dorun / doall....any thoughts on the double lazy-seq?
11:39	oskarkv	hhenkel double lazy-seqs are not necessarily a problem
11:40	hhenkel	But if you look at my data strucutre that I get, do you think it's necessary that it is wrapped twice?
11:40	TimMc	Ticket filed for stupid clojure.string/split behavior: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1360
11:40	TimMc	(not that it will accomplish anything)
11:41	sveri	hi, is there a dedicated sum function for lists or should I use reduce?
11:41	sritchie	dnolen_: hey, one Q about that timing app
11:42	sritchie	dnolen_: any advice on how I can be careful about isolating the timer DOM updates from other updates on the page?
11:42	hhenkel	oskarkv: the data contains to "objects" I would like to work on...therefore it seems like an overhead to me.
11:42	sritchie	I have a list of "result entries"; every time you click the mark button, I grab the current time and add an entry to {:stopwatch {:results <vector-of-results>}}
11:43	oskarkv	hhenkel I'm not sure what you are doing with your data
11:43	sritchie	dnolen_: :stopwatch has :results, :timestamp, :stopwatch-time, :active?… it looks like my :results rows are updated every 10ms. I feel like something about the way I'm passing cursors is triggering dom updates on :results changes...
11:44	sritchie	dnolen_: probably I need to nest them differently?
11:44	oskarkv	hhenkel what is get-server-config, for example?
11:45	hhenkel	oskarkv: I added it to the refheap
11:45	oskarkv	hhenkel ok
11:45	hhenkel	oskarkv: That's what I was refering to earlier.
11:45	oskarkv	ah :P
11:50	dnolen_	sritchie: is your :results row a vector that isn't changing?
11:50	oskarkv	hhenkel and what was your question/problem? :P
11:51	sritchie	dnolen_: yeah, it is
11:51	hhenkel	oskarkv: Down below you see the result of "my work"...it is wrapped in (({ ...
11:51	sritchie	https://github.com/paddleguru/om-timer/blob/develop/src/cljs/paddleguru/client/timer.cljs#L207
11:51	hhenkel	oskarkv: all i want to do is iterate over those to objects...and it seems not right to have it double wrapped..
11:52	sritchie	dnolen_: and I'm trying to be careful to only pass that vector down into my build-all call;
11:52	sritchie	:focus-cell is a piece of higher level state that leaks down, though. maybe that's triggering a re-render. Let me remove that and see if it helps
11:52	hhenkel	oskarkv: Or with other words, why should I pack it two times to unpack it twice later on.
11:54	oskarkv	hhenkel those come from `for`? So there is only one application and one server?
11:55	sritchie	dnolen_: yeah, it's still really sluggish after adding 100 results (even though that vector doesn't change)
11:55	sritchie	dnolen_: http://omtimer.herokuapp.com/timer
11:55	hhenkel	oskarkv: nope, there are multiple applications that can have multiple servers ( a weblogic domain for example, one domain multiple managed servers and we got multiple weblogic domains).
11:56	dnolen_	sritchie: yeah so that's not going to work, you're triggering a re-render every time.
11:56	dnolen_	sritchie: you need to do the reverse "inside"
11:56	oskarkv	hhenkel but right now only 1? And those lists come from for?
11:57	oskarkv	or, seqs
11:57	dnolen_	sritchie: a bit of a wart at the moment with how Om works, we can't use Clojure's equality test yet because of some implementation details.
11:58	dnolen_	sritchie: basically in order to avoid re-renders identical? must be true, not =
11:58	sritchie	ah, gotcha
11:58	sritchie	so I need to make sure to build the results vector in reverse as I add stuff
11:58	sritchie	if I want those result entries to show up in reverse order
11:58	dnolen_	sritchie: no just do the reverse later
11:59	hhenkel	oskarkv: the description is in yaml files....there are two example objects in the data.
11:59	dnolen_	sritchie: like inside the component that shows it
11:59	hhenkel	oskarkv: first ends with :http-port 8080}
11:59	hhenkel	oskarkv: line 58
11:59	dnolen_	sritchie: even if I remove the wart, that will still be fastest
12:00	paulfedorow	why is it that i can't see the output of prn inside a go block when evaluating it in vim with fireplace?
12:00	sritchie	dnolen_: huh, I thought this was inside the component that shows it (finisher-rows)
12:01	sritchie	finisher-rows shows the group of them
12:01	dnolen_	sritchie: no you are reversing then calling build
12:01	dnolen_	no way identical? check can work
12:01	oskarkv	hhenkel sorry, when you said "the result of my work" I think I misunderstood. What work? What function output that? And how did the double (( come about?
12:01	sritchie	yeah, for sure - just wasn't clear on the return type of build-all
12:01	sritchie	so I can move the reverse outside
12:02	dnolen_	sritchie: build-all just returns a seq of components
12:02	dnolen_	sritchie: so you can use apply
12:02	hhenkel	oskarkv: The data shown is the result of "get-server-config"
12:03	oskarkv	ah, now i see
12:03	sritchie	dnolen_: nice. "ranked" is going to be a problem as well, I guess, since identical? will fail
12:03	sritchie	dnolen_: though that's modeled after (defn people [app] …) in https://github.com/swannodette/om/wiki/Basic-Tutorial
12:03	dnolen_	sritchie: it's usually not a problem but for long lists of things yes, you're going to lose time comparing things that don't need to be compared
12:04	hhenkel	oskarkv: I gotta go - basketball time - be back later on.
12:04	oskarkv	So right now there are 1 app and 2 servers? Anyway you can do this in for: (for [app apps, server app] ...), that sould get rid of the double wrapping
12:04	oskarkv	hhenkel ^
12:04	hhenkel	oskarkv: I'll give it a quick shot.
12:04	paulfedorow	ah worked around it by wrapping the go block in a <!!. guess the go block wasn't executed fast enough for fireplace to grab the output
12:04	whodidthis	any way to destructure hashsets?
12:05	oskarkv	hhenkel note that comma is whitespace, no need for it
12:05	hhenkel	oskarkv: Perfect!
12:05	hhenkel	oskarkv: works now as expected.
12:05	hhenkel	oskarkv: Thank you!
12:05	hhenkel	oskarkv++
12:05	oskarkv	hhenkel great :p no problem
12:05	oskarkv	(inc oskarkv) :p
12:06	`cbp	(inc oskarkv)
12:06	lazybot	⇒ 1
12:07	sritchie	dnolen_: the whole UI for this thing is poorly designed, anyway; since we insert at the top, you have to re-render everything below.
12:07	sritchie	dnolen_: yeah, it's much faster without "ranked", presumably because you have to re-render everything to increment their rank by 1
12:10	sritchie	dnolen_: the way forward is probably to implement that component that only re-renders items that are in the current window
12:10	sritchie	dnolen_: thanks for the help. the fog is lifting.
12:15	bbloom	dnolen_: i think sritchie has your next blog post idea for you: you need to show how to implement a virtualizing stack panel
12:16	dnolen_	bbloom: heh, we'll see :)
12:16	dnolen_	sritchie: yes, this where if you came up with a generic component a lot of people would benefit.
12:17	sritchie	yeah, I'm planning on putting some time toward my Om + CLJS knowledge each day
12:17	sritchie	I'll see what I can do with this
12:18	dnolen_	sritchie: that's really the thing I'm most excited about. As people build out their applications there will be legitimately reusable things that should be easy to spin out like I've done w/ om-sync.
12:19	bbloom	dnolen_: it would be pretty easy if you assume fixed height items and just absolute position them: then you basically just render N items where N is like the number of items that fit vertically * 3 or whatever
12:19	dnolen_	bbloom: yep
12:20	bbloom	legitimately reusable: as opposed to "we claim this is reusable, but nobody but us has ever reused it"
12:20	dnolen_	bbloom: most of the annoyances will simply be making it so that it works in every browser >= IE8
12:20	bbloom	dnolen_: if you just put a div in a scrollable div, set the inner div's height explicitly, and then absolutely position fixed height items within that: i see no reason why it shouldn't in any browser w/ minimal effort
12:21	dnolen_	bbloom: it should just work yes - but you know how these things are :)
12:21	bbloom	true story.
12:21	dnolen_	it works, except on Galaxy Tab or something
12:21	sdegutis	I think (id) would be a great name for some function.
12:21	sdegutis	Except then we could never name variables "id"
12:22	bbloom	sdegutis: which is likely why rich choose identity
12:22	bbloom	sdegutis: haskell was more bold: http://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-4.6.0.1/docs/Prelude.html#v:id
12:22	sdegutis	Well I already feel paranoid when I name a symbol "id", having to check lazybot to see if it's already a function.
12:22	bbloom	lol
12:22	sdegutis	So it might as well be unusable.
12:22	bbloom	sounds like an isolated problem...
12:22	sdegutis	bbloom: Doing Haskell lately?
12:23	bbloom	sdegutis: nope
12:23	bbloom	sdegutis: no plans to either
12:23	sdegutis	!!
12:23	sdegutis	Why not?
12:23	bbloom	sdegutis: not gonna get in to a language war now....
12:23	sdegutis	No I mean, I just thought everyone in here was getting into Haskell lately.
12:24	sdegutis	(Except that one guy.)
12:24	technomancy	gentlemen. you'll have to wait till 1600 UTC for this.
12:24	technomancy	=)
12:24	sdegutis	(yeah, him)
12:24	bbloom	i've been enjoying his absence
12:24	sdegutis	technomancy: I don't see it in the topic anymore.
12:24	bbloom	sdegutis: it's now well known policy, not a new announcement :-P
12:24	technomancy	hehe
12:25	sdegutis	I just saw a trend of Clojurians getting into Haskell. Not sure why it happened en masse like that. Kinda neat phenomenon.
12:25	technomancy	is Clojure big enough to have any "en masse" phenomenons happen in it?
12:25	technomancy	phenomena
12:25	bbloom	sdegutis: this community believes in understanding PLT and, like it or not, haskell has a strong foothold there. you basically need to read ML and Haskell to keep up with the theory
12:25	sdegutis	(en-masse & people) only requires >= 3 arguments.
12:26	bbloom	sdegutis: and, if you're lucky, scheme :-P
12:26	sdegutis	PLT?
12:26	sdegutis	$google PLT
12:26	lazybot	[Project Learning Tree] https://www.plt.org/
12:26	sdegutis	Oh.
12:26	bbloom	no
12:26	bbloom	programing language theory
12:27	bbloom	clojurebot: PLT is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programming_language_theory
12:27	clojurebot	In Ordnung
12:27	sdegutis	Oh dang, I'm off topic.
12:31	dnolen_	so w/ the React.js 0.9.0-rc1 changes, Om is 10X faster for initial render than the popular competitors :)
12:31	dnolen_	love it when perf is someone elses problems
12:32	bbloom	dnolen_: nice. what changed?
12:33	dnolen_	bbloom: bunch of internal tweaks, petehunt suspects JIT friendlier
12:33	petehunt	also innerHTML size is a lot smaller since we reduced the size of ids
12:33	petehunt	probably has a lot to do with it
12:34	dnolen_	petehunt: nice
12:34	bbloom	petehunt: JIT friendlier means less runtime metaprogramming? more use of objects as structs?
12:34	petehunt	bbloom: we fixed a few places where we created obj keys in different orders
12:34	petehunt	big thing was not accessing undefined props in a few places
12:35	bbloom	petehunt: gotcha. so the hidden classes optimizations don't bail out w/o warning
12:35	petehunt	right
12:35	bbloom	petehunt: and by ids smaller, you literally mean fewer character strings? heh. hilarious
12:35	petehunt	yeah
12:35	wei__	compojure handlers/wrappers are called from inside out right? so that means if I use the -> operator my handlers are actually called in the reverse order in which they appear?
12:36	sritchie	yup
12:36	sritchie	wei__: that's correct
12:36	wei__	sritchie: thx
12:36	petehunt	go measure the # of html bytes in the dom ni 0.8 and 0.9
12:36	petehunt	:)
12:37	nkoza	dnolen_: are you using Om in production?
12:37	bbloom	petehunt: go team
12:37	bbloom	nice work
12:37	dnolen_	nkoza: not yet, but other people are
12:37	bbloom	nkoza: dnolen_ never uses his own stuff in production. where would the fun be in that? he just rathers you all gamble for him
12:37	dnolen_	haha
12:38	nkoza	I see, maybe I can be another guinea pig
12:40	`cbp	I cloned the stackoverflow new topic's add-tags-input for my app in about 250 lines of om. That was pretty nice.
12:41	dnolen_	`cbp: nice
12:43	`cbp	dnolen_: indeed, all i needed was the basic tutorial hehe
12:44	`cbp	Once I port it to 0.4 i'll make a repo with my widgets
12:45	dnolen_	"we've replaced 17,000 lines of JavaScript with 2,000 lines of om/react" http://github.com/swannodette/om/issues/116#issuecomment-35410957
12:48	bbloom	glorious
12:48	ambrosebs	dnolen_: wow congrats!
12:53	whodidthis	is there a way to get ring to respond with status 400 if im not returning a status or body
12:53	whodidthis	so status 400 if my response-handler returns nil
12:53	ystael	whodidthis: sure, just interpose a middleware that replaces nil with a 400 response on the way back out
12:55	whodidthis	cool, havent lookd at any middleware yet
12:55	ystael	whodidthis: have you looked at Liberator?
12:56	ystael	something like that takes care of a lot of these concerns for you
12:56	whodidthis	im not planning on doing that many http end points so ill try something simpler
12:56	whodidthis	more interested in websockets
13:00	zanes_	Huh. Odd that max doesn't take a comparator.
13:01	hiredman	,(doc max-key)
13:01	clojurebot	"([k x] [k x y] [k x y & more]); Returns the x for which (k x), a number, is greatest."
13:01	zanes	I'm aware of max-key.
13:02	zanes	But thanks.
13:03	pyrtsa	clojure.core is really lacking in Comparator based functions. :(
13:03	llasram	pyrtsa: In what sense?
13:04	pyrtsa	Comparison operators only work on numbers. No min/max algorithms for collections of Comparables. etc.
13:04	llasram	Oh, that. Yeah, not sure why
13:05	pyrtsa	Fun fact: (< date1 date2) comparison works for java.util.Date when it's part of a Datomic query. But not when clojure.core/<.
13:09	justin_smith	,(< (.getTime (java.util.Date.)) (.getTime (do (Thread/sleep 1) (java.util.Date.))))
13:09	clojurebot	true
13:09	jonasen	pyrtsa: < is for nums only (as per the docs).
13:10	pyrtsa	jonasen: I know. Not sure if that's been a good design decision, though.
13:12	justin_smith	,(compare (java.util.Date.) (do (Thread/sleep 1) (java.util.Date.)))
13:12	clojurebot	-1
13:13	zanes	pyrtsa: Is there some contrib library I should be reaching for?
13:14	zanes	Also, this is a weird question, but is there a convention for naming deref'd variables? e.g. variable-name -> dvariable-name or similar
13:15	pyrtsa	zanes: Don't know of any.
13:16	zanes	I guess just using @ everywhere is shorter in almost all instances.
13:17	pyrtsa	I usually try to avoid dereffing the same IDeref multiple times in the same function, if it's possible some other thread might be changing it.
13:18	justin_smith	really you should be using a transaction (for a ref) or a swap function (for an atom)
13:18	justin_smith	dereffing multiple times in one fn sounds like a code smell
13:18	pyrtsa	Nod.
13:18	justin_smith	also "sounds like a code smell" is metaphor abuse
13:18	pyrtsa	:D
13:19	llasram	Software synesthesia
13:19	justin_smith	lol
13:20	technomancy	why does everyone assume code smell is malodorous
13:20	justin_smith	code perfume
13:20	technomancy	can't code smell fresh and lively?
13:20	justin_smith	decoderant
13:20	llasram	(inc justin_smith)
13:20	lazybot	⇒ 27
13:20	technomancy	nice
13:21	SegFaultAX	Haha, well done.
13:22	bbloom	justin_smith: decoderant would be a great name for a linter
13:22	bbloom	"Eliminates those pesky code smells!"
13:22	bbloom	"Now with bleach!"
13:23	pjstadig	𝅘𝅥𝅮Your code's not fully clean until it's Zest fully clean!𝅘𝅥𝅮
13:23	amalloy	bbloom: coderant.de is available
13:24	amalloy	de.coderant is the group-id - now what's the artifact-id?
13:24	pjstadig	speed-stick
13:24	bbloom	fresh-blast
13:24	bbloom	pjstadig: that's the the submodule that finds perf smells
13:26	technomancy	different versions have code names [de.coderant "0.5.0-ARCTIC-CHILL"] and [de.coderant "1.1.0-ISLAND-BREEZE"]
13:26	justin_smith	haha
13:26	pjstadig	i always end up buying domain names because of #clojure
13:27	pjstadig	this is how i ended up with clabango.org (which I finally let go)
13:27	pjstadig	~suddenly
13:27	clojurebot	CLABANGO!
13:27	Raynes	#firstworldproblems
13:27	Raynes	:P
13:41	aphyr	CookedGryphon: #riemann is the best way to get ahold of me BTW.
13:42	aphyr	CookedGryphon: haven't seen a compilation error before but I believe you, haha. Riemann-java-client defines it internally.
13:42	aphyr	Any idea how to let the java client implement the interface without copying the class?
13:43	hiredman	http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/lang/reflect/Proxy.html ?
13:55	ptcek	Anyone know how to configure jTDS or MSJDBC driver for MSSQL 2005 to use :fetch-size parameter and fetch lazily? I have a working example with Oracle, but cannot find out how to do that with MSSQL...
13:57	ptcek	It always tries to load the whole dataset in memory in contracst with Oracle that uses fixed amount of memory no matter how large the dataset...
14:00	aphyr	CookedGryphon: https://github.com/aphyr/riemann-java-client/issues/34
14:02	justin_smith	ptcek: clojure.java.jdbc should return a stream of result data, using constant memory space is a question of what you do with that stream
14:03	ptcek	justin_smith: I will post the working code in a sec to make it clear...
14:06	fitzoh	anyone have any experience with clj-webdriver?
14:16	ptcek	justin_smith: Cannot connect to work, so just from memory http://pastebin.com/uewDgdau
14:18	ptcek	justin_smith: this works well when connecting to Oracle (clojure process will take a few MBs more than when idle no matter how large the dataset) but MSSQL driver will try to load the whole dataset into memory so it blows up
14:23	justin_smith	oh, so this sounds like a bug somewhere in the integration of the mssql driver and clojure.java.jdbc - have you tried breaking it into explicit count and offset queries? that should work as a fallback
14:23	justin_smith	though it is admittedly tedious
14:27	ptcek	justin_smith: I did not and don't want to (I don't need to get the result now so I am not forced) and it bugs me that it works in Oracle
14:28	justin_smith	Sounds like a problem with that mssql backend, yeah. I think your options are not use mssql, fix their driver, or use count and offset queries.
14:29	justin_smith	I'd be interested if you find something better though.
14:29	ptcek	as I am total noob and new to clojure/dbs and all I think I will not :)
14:30	justin_smith	:count and :offset keys, and breaking into multiple queries in a loop, should work OK
14:30	borkdude	So now I get what caribou is about: building crud apps
14:31	justin_smith	borkdude: yeah, that's a big part of it - or at least handling the crud part of setting up a website
14:31	borkdude	justin_smith I'm impressed by the demo video
14:32	justin_smith	thanks, I'll let patchwork know
14:32	ptcek	justin_smith: yeah this will work but if my approach is correct, I would even more like to see IT working. Could it be considered bug?
14:33	ptcek	justin_smith: bug in what? drivers?
14:33	justin_smith	ptcek: I think it is a bug in the mssql driver
14:33	ptcek	justin_smith: I will try jTDS authors then...
14:34	justin_smith	or maybe it is a technically a missing feature and not a bug... dunno, sorry
14:34	ptcek	they present that it should be working and all the opts are supported
14:34	jonasen	Anyone know of where I can read more about core.async pub/sub system (blog posts, examples etc)? All I found is basically the docstring for `core.async/pub`: https://github.com/clojure/core.async/blob/master/src/main/clojure/cljs/core/async.cljs#L597
14:35	ptcek	justin_smith: after all, do you consider the aproach with, genrally, statefull function to be correct given the use case?
14:35	aphyr	jonasen: the docstrings are helpful: https://github.com/aphyr/core.async/blob/decomplecting/src/main/clojure/clojure/core/async.clj
14:37	dnolen_	jonasen: pub/sub is pretty simple, https://github.com/swannodette/om-sync
14:37	dnolen_	jonasen: pub takes a chan and returns something you can suscribe to, you must supply something that take the value of the channel and returns the topic, sub is simple, you subscribe to pub chan and you say what topic you want to listen in on.
14:38	justin_smith	ptcek: as long as you don't ever run the code in parallel
14:39	justin_smith	ptcek: if you would ever have two concurrent queries, you would want to bind the atom inside a closure, so they wouldn't compete for the same atom
14:39	jonasen	dnolen_: thanks! I think pub/sub is what I want. Great to see om-sync is using it. I'll read through the code
14:39	justin_smith	(wrapping the whole thing in a let statement instead of using def, and probably putting that inside an fn)
14:39	dnolen_	jonasen: it's not so much using it, people who want to use it must follow this pattern.
14:40	dnolen_	jonasen: om-sync works by consuming a feed of all changes to the application state
14:40	justin_smith	good clojure style is to refactor things so that all the caller will care about is the arguments (if any) and the return value
14:40	ptcek	justin_smith: this is what I meant by stateful function, ie closure over atom, right?
14:40	justin_smith	right, once you close over a new atom, it is only locally stateful
14:41	justin_smith	and won't share state with another invocation
14:41	stompyj	Clojure + Redis. It's like the dawn of a new day. That is all. :)
14:41	ptcek	yeah this is what I am planning
14:41	justin_smith	(let [sum (atom 0)] (clojure.java.jdbc/query ... (rest of your code goes here)))
14:41	justin_smith	of course dereffing the atom at the end
14:42	ptcek	justin_smith: thanks for suggestions
14:43	justin_smith	also, if you end up doing queries in a loop with :count and :limit parameters, you can probably make the queries in parallel, adding to the atom as each comes back, instead of waiting for them one at a time
14:44	justin_smith	so you only need deal with latency once, rather than multiplying latency by the query count
14:46	ptcek	justin_smith: so use n atoms for n parallel queries?
14:46	justin_smith	um no
14:46	justin_smith	one atom, but swap as they come back
14:46	justin_smith	for n parallel queries that are meant to derive 1 count
14:48	ptcek	ok, actually I am using some "switches" that I switch while going through the dataset and adding only when some combination of switches is present, ie I process a row at a time and keep the necessary history in the atom
14:49	amalloy	justin_smith: instead of hand-rolling some junk with an atom and spawning the threads yourself, why not use reducers/fold? that's what it's for; you just have to define a Reducer implementation for your database thing
14:49	ptcek	+ the accumulator, of course
14:49	justin_smith	ptcek: yeah, amalloy's idea is much better
14:51	ptcek	ok so use fold in place of result-set-fn
14:54	justin_smith	I think it's not quite that simple, you would define a fold that does a query, and reducers would combine the results http://clojure.com/blog/2012/05/08/reducers-a-library-and-model-for-collection-processing.html
14:55	justin_smith	I haven't used reducers / fold myself though, but it sounds like the right solution, maybe amalloy has more specific suggestions
14:56	justin_smith	the basic idea is that each query would construct its own sum, and the reducer would sum each of these as they are ready, I think
14:57	amalloy	sorry, i don't really have time to dive back into the details of how to build custom foldables. i have slides and a script from a presentation i did on it back whenr educers were new, though: https://github.com/amalloy/reducers-presentation
15:00	ptcek	amalloy: thanks for this material I'll go through it
15:14	ericdwhite	Hi I have a questions about using merge to add items to list within a map. I'm looking for feedback on style as I'm new to clojure. What's the best way to post code in IRC? gist?
15:15	llasram	ericdwhite: gists are fine, also https://www.refheap.com/
15:15	ericdwhite	https://gist.github.com/ericdwhite/9079003
15:17	ericdwhite	In the example I have a room with a list of people inside, and I want to create a method to allow people to join the room. I'm looking for feed back on the method (join-em)
15:17	amalloy	join-rm could be (update-in room [:people] merge person)
15:18	justin_smith	also, in general, if you know the keys ahead of time, assoc makes more sense than merge
15:18	amalloy	although merge shouldn't work at all here, right? i mean, what i posted is a transformation of your existing code, but you can't merge vectors, only maps
15:18	amalloy	so really you mean more like (update-in room [:people] conj person), which is pretty normal
15:20	`cbp	I'd do like (defn add-people [room & people] (update-in room [:people] into people))
15:21	amalloy	meh
15:22	amalloy	whether one person or multiple people makes more sense depends on his context, which we don't know
15:22	amalloy	i certainly wouldn't use &, though - people being an explicit seq will be more convenient
15:24	ericdwhite	I was adding 1 person at a time, because that was how the UI worked.
15:24	notid	Quick question: is there a splat operator in clojure? I'm wanting to make the vector inline here: (some-func [1 2 3] "hello")
15:24	ericdwhite	so with 'conj' the result is: {:id "room1", :people [{:name "john", :id 1} {:name "sam", :id 2}]}
15:25	ericdwhite	And the same for & people with into. Thanks for your help. What I was really missing was update-in!
15:38	dnolen_	notid: apply
15:39	dnolen_	notid: though you can't quite do what you want there.
15:39	dnolen_	(apply some-func (concat [1 2 3] ["hello"])) is about the best you can do.
15:40	dnolen_	notid: unless of course some-fun takes vectors as second arg, then (apply some-fun "hello" [1 2 3])
15:43	ivan	jonathanj: I think I'll go with (mapv (partial reduce +) (apply map list [[1 1] [2 2] [3 5]])) for summing columns; I don't think there's a shorter way to do sum or zip unless you want to define your own
15:56	gfredericks	did java originally have characters or were they stapled on later?
15:57	danneu	Is there another way to sort strings alphabetically (case-insensitive) than to convert to lower-case?
15:58	hiredman	,(doc sort-by)
15:58	clojurebot	"([keyfn coll] [keyfn comp coll]); Returns a sorted sequence of the items in coll, where the sort order is determined by comparing (keyfn item). If no comparator is supplied, uses compare. comparator must implement java.util.Comparator. If coll is a Java array, it will be modified. To avoid this, sort a copy of the array."
15:58	gfredericks	danneu: String#compareToIgnoreCase
16:00	gfredericks	,(sort (comparator (fn [^String s1 ^String s2] (neg? (.compareToIgnoreCase s1 s2)))) ["foo" "BAR" "baz"])
16:00	clojurebot	("BAR" "baz" "foo")
16:00	danneu	gfredericks: brilliant
16:01	hiredman	,(sort-by #(.toLowerCase %) ["foo" "BAR" "baz"])
16:01	clojurebot	("BAR" "baz" "foo")
16:09	pjstadig	,(sort-by (mem-fn toLowerCase) ["foo" "BAR" "baz"])
16:09	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: mem-fn in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
16:09	pjstadig	,(sort-by (memfn toLowerCase) ["foo" "BAR" "baz"])
16:09	clojurebot	("BAR" "baz" "foo")
16:12	danneu	for one use-case, the built-in comparator saves me 2 characters
16:13	borkdude	is there no section on debugging in the clojure cookbook? https://github.com/clojure-cookbook/clojure-cookbook
16:14	hiredman	gfredericks: fns (if I recall correctly) implement whatever the comparing interface is, so you shouldn't need to call comparator or neg?
16:15	llasram	borkdude: Clojure code never has bugs. Once you get code working at the REPL, it generally just works
16:15	borkdude	llasram that is only true if your name is Rich Hickey
16:16	borkdude	I just discovered this nice tool https://github.com/prismofeverything/schmetterling
16:16	borkdude	via caribou docs
16:16	danneu	my debug workflow is about as sophisticated as it was at my first vbscriipt job
16:17	borkdude	daniel_karlsson you mean println?
16:17	borkdude	I mean danneu
16:17	danneu	yes
16:17	borkdude	danneu mine too
16:17	danneu	or clojure.pprint/pprint
16:17	borkdude	danneu and I used swank debug thing
16:17	danneu	when i'm feelin fancy
16:18	borkdude	danneu but I haven't used it in a long while, I don't know if it is even ported to the new nrepl world?
16:19	danneu	i dont know how to make nrepl helpful with stacktraces. right now it just shows the top line of the trace in a 1-inch-high popup which is usually good enough
16:19	danneu	the default seemed to print the whole trace in its own buffer that i would have to manually close
16:20	gfredericks	hiredman: I knew there must be an easier way; that's a tricky one to guess though
16:20	gfredericks	pjstadig: that one reflects I think
16:31	borkdude	is anyone around involved in schmetterling?
16:31	borkdude	yeahyeah I can't use the word anyone here, but now it seems appropriate
16:32	borkdude	I wanted to ask if it's normal that when I press "continue" the same exception comes up again and again
16:33	justin_smith	borkdude: patchwork is the guy behind schmetterling, I can ask him what is up
16:33	justin_smith	there is a thing where if you do something in the inspector that throws an error, it goes into an error loop iirc
16:34	justin_smith	unless that is fixed
16:34	borkdude	justin_smith yeah I got that, that is documented as well on the page
16:34	justin_smith	oh, ok
16:35	patchwork	borkdude: What is the exception? It all depends on the state of your process
16:36	borkdude	patchwork I opened up a repl with 'lein try schmetterling'
16:36	patchwork	Also, some libraries throw exceptions with the intention of catching them later, but schmetterling will still break on them
16:36	borkdude	and then did this:
16:36	borkdude	user=> (let [x 10 y 15]
16:36	borkdude	#_=> (schmetterling.core/debugger))
16:36	borkdude	patchwork I can inspect x and y
16:36	borkdude	but when I press continue, I get the same thing over and over, the REPL never returns to the normal state
16:37	patchwork	paste the exception here: https://www.refheap.com/
16:38	patchwork	I need to document this, but you can add certain exceptions to an exclusion list if certain libs you use pathologically throw them internally
16:38	muhoo	is there some way to make liberator use cheshire instead of clojure.data.json?
16:40	gfredericks	time to write a simple-json-facade-clj
16:41	rasmusto	gfredericks: faceon
16:42	gfredericks	I'm still trying to solve the problem of making cheshire extensible for libraries
16:42	rasmusto	technomancy: at least there's no ironicjure in it
16:43	borkdude	patchwork https://www.dropbox.com/s/v9fr9vdt4p0uox9/Screenshot%202014-02-18%2022.38.21.png
16:43	borkdude	patchwork I raised the expection from a repl, calling a function foo with args x y and z
16:43	borkdude	https://www.refheap.com/41562
16:44	borkdude	patchwork when I click continue, I get the same screen over and over
16:45	patchwork	borkdude: Hmm…. strange. Must be something about how the exception is interacting with the repl
16:46	patchwork	it should just finish and continue, but I have never triggered the exception from the repl before, I usually do it from a running app
16:46	hiredman	gfredericks: a module system where every library gets its own copy of cheshire to extend, right?
16:46	patchwork	borkdude: What happens if instead you trigger a different exception, like (/ 1 0)?
16:47	gfredericks	hiredman: man I have no idea how seriously you meant that
16:47	borkdude	patchwork I'll try now again
16:47	bob2	muhoo, how did you make it use either?
16:47	technomancy	parameterized namespacessssss
16:48	bob2	muhoo, I didn't think it did any implicit deserialisation
16:48	hiredman	rewrite cheshire to use some kind of service object, so you instantiate this cheshire object with some parameters and use it
16:48	sdegutis	technomancy: wat
16:48	sdegutis	that would be so cool
16:49	hiredman	gfredericks: I don't know how serious the question is
16:49	gfredericks	(deftype ReadOnlyDereffable [r] clojure.lang.IDeref (deref [_] @r))
16:49	muhoo	technomancy: huh?
16:49	muhoo	bob2: serialization not deserialization
16:49	danneu	Has anybody ever worked with BBCode with Clojure/Java? I'm looking for a good lib + editor combo
16:49	gfredericks	hiredman: reasonably serious; I have a structured logging lib and would like it to default to str rather than throwing; and maybe a couple other customizations
16:50	bob2	muhoo, ah
16:50	hiredman	(deftype Cheshire ...) (let [c (Cheshire.)] (add-encoder c ...) ...)
16:50	technomancy	sdegutis: apparently OCaml modules do a good job at supporting this
16:50	muhoo	bob2: it uses clojure.data.json to encode application/json types. i could manually just handle types but it defeats one of the purposes of using liberator
16:50	bob2	yeah, i'm less convinced of liberator than I was
16:50	muhoo	it's a Great Beast
16:50	gfredericks	hiredman: the weird part is if I'm going to fork and rewrite or whatever anyhow, I actually solve the problem by using the new version from the logging lib and nowhere else :/
16:50	danneu	Rather, can anyone recommend a good editor that also happens to support BBCode?
16:50	borkdude	patchwork same problem
16:50	gfredericks	fsvo "solve"
16:51	muhoo	it seems way more work than it's worth for some things, but i've got a project that already uses it and don't feel like ripping it all up and starting over ATM
16:51	hyPiRion	gfredericks: (defn read-only-deffable [val] (let [p (promise)] (deliver p val) p)) is not sufficient? Saves you a deftype
16:51	hiredman	gfredericks: stick a copy of cheshire in a classloader where no one else can get at it
16:51	gfredericks	hyPiRion: hey reify would do it too
16:52	bob2	also all the hooks are racey
16:52	borkdude	danneu maybe there is a BBCode mode for emacs? http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/BbCode#toc1
16:52	gfredericks	hyPiRion: also: (doto (promise) (deliver val))
16:52	bob2	does this url exist at hook time? no? better check in the handler anyway
16:52	hyPiRion	gfredericks: oh nice
16:52	hyPiRion	I don't usually deliver promises instantly, but I'll note it down
16:52	danneu	borkdude: oh, i meant for users. like my forum users.
16:52	gfredericks	hyPiRion: useful for any alter-then-return pattern
16:52	rsenior	technomany: do you have any clojure swarming bootstrap scripts for syme?
16:52	borkdude	danneu ah ok ;0)
16:52	gfredericks	(doto (def ...) (alter-var-root ...))
16:53	gtrak	gfredericks: any reason not to use delay there?
16:53	llasram	technomany == a system for cloning technomancy, ensuring the dominance of leiningen over all other build tools
16:53	gfredericks	gtrak: arbitrary refs can have changing values
16:53	rsenior	doh - thanks llasram
16:53	gfredericks	technomancy are the author of the clojure build tool leiningen
16:54	rsenior	technomancy: do you have any clojure swarming bootstrap scripts for syme?
16:54	technomancy	rsenior: there should be one in the repo, but I think there's something wrong with the language detection
16:54	technomancy	it's just not getting applied somehow
16:55	technomancy	https://github.com/technomancy/syme/blob/master/resources/languages/Clojure.sh
16:55	technomancy	https://github.com/technomancy/syme/pull/37
16:55	rsenior	right, I was thinking emacs, starter-kit, clojure-mode etc
16:55	technomancy	oh, personal dotfiles; suer
16:55	technomancy	sure
16:55	technomancy	https://github.com/technomancy/.symerc
16:57	borkdude	patchwork I tested now without the repl, causing the exception from a 'lein run', same problem
16:58	patchwork	borkdude: Strange, I'll try to replicate
16:59	borkdude	patchwork this is the code from which the exception is thrown: https://www.refheap.com/41564
16:59	patchwork	It is like it is trying to execute the same function over and over again
16:59	borkdude	patchwork this is my project.clj https://www.refheap.com/41565
17:00	rsenior	technomancy: thanks! Going to give swarming a try this evening at the St Louis Clojure Meetup
17:07	patchwork	borkdude: Ah, if you notice the exception is in a different line and file each time
17:07	patchwork	I hit continue maybe 15 times and it completed
17:07	gfredericks	(defmacro while-> "Like -> but short-circuits as soon as pred returns falsy for the threaded value." [pred x & forms] ...)
17:07	patchwork	It is just showing every exception getting thrown by the clojure compiler at every level it does that
17:07	patchwork	I think the main issue is that you trigger the exception when the file is loaded
17:08	patchwork	(foo 1 2 3) at the root level
17:08	patchwork	I will try an experiment, just a sec
17:14	technomancy	rsenior: great; good luck
17:14	patchwork	borkdude: Yeah, in general you want to avoid executing things when a file loads. Check this out: https://www.refheap.com/41567
17:15	patchwork	Instead of (foo 1 2 3) at the outer scope of your file, it is inside the -main function
17:15	gfredericks	oh hey another function with `some` in the name that uses traditional truthiness: some-fn
17:15	patchwork	This protects it from evaluation at load time
17:15	patchwork	Then in your project.clj just say :main proj.core
17:17	patchwork	It is still triggered maybe three times, this is the compiler rethrowing the same exception as it percolates up the stack
17:18	technomancy	gfredericks: traditional truthiness is between one true and one false only.
17:20	amalloy	technomancy: this sounds like some weird satire of gay rights
17:20	amalloy	satire? maybe i mean parody
17:20	borkdude	patchwork I know, this was just for testing
17:21	borkdude	patchwork testing without a repl that is. normally I don't create calls at top level ;)
17:21	gfredericks	amalloy: anti-gay-rights?
17:22	gfredericks	technomancy: traditional truthiness is int-based
17:22	technomancy	oh snap
17:22	patchwork	borkdude: What I am saying is, that is what makes it seem like the exception is repeating itself, when really it is just sending it through far more calls since it is loading it over and over again
17:22	patchwork	probably something similar is happening with the repl
17:22	technomancy	don't get all von neumann on me
17:22	borkdude	patchwork ah ok
17:22	technomancy	gfredericks: I follow the teachings of the Church.
17:22	borkdude	patchwork I'll try non-top-level call then
17:22	gfredericks	technomancy: von neumann said it, I believe it, that settles it
17:23	rasmusto	one man and von neumann, please
17:23	technomancy	the Church, who also happens to be A Church.
17:23	hyPiRion	haha
17:23	sdegutis	:/
17:24	hyPiRion	good old Alonzo.
17:24	borkdude	patchwork I now got this. No difference. https://www.refheap.com/41569
17:26	sdegutis	oh thats a nice story, von Neumann died a Catholic :)
17:28	patchwork	borkdude: Keep hitting continue
17:28	patchwork	its location in the stack changes
17:31	gfredericks	,(as-> {:foo 12} {:keys [foo bar] :as m} (assoc m :foo 13) (assoc m :bar foo))
17:31	clojurebot	{:keys [13 13], :as {:bar 13, :foo 13}}
17:31	gfredericks	haha
17:31	sdegutis	oh good, we're back on topic
17:31	gfredericks	(inc clojure)
17:31	lazybot	⇒ 15
17:33	rasmusto	gfredericks: waaah, that's confusing me
17:34	rasmusto	,(doc as->)
17:34	clojurebot	"([expr name & forms]); Binds name to expr, evaluates the first form in the lexical context of that binding, then binds name to that result, repeating for each successive form, returning the result of the last form."
17:34	borkdude	patchwork that's true. when I keep pressing continue eventually the browser window is 'empty', but what should happen to the call to foo? now my program doesn't respond anymore
17:34	borkdude	patchwork I think it should just finish now?
17:35	rasmusto	gfredericks: is it supposed to stay 12?
17:35	patchwork	It does finish with an exception in the terminal
17:35	patchwork	(at least for me)
17:35	ztellman	technomancy: I think you should be a little more open-minded when it comes to churches http://bit.ly/1jP4CEP
17:35	patchwork	Which is correct, since it threw an exception and it is not in a loop
17:36	borkdude	patchwork yes, I would expect that, but not in my terminal :-s
17:37	amalloy	gfredericks: that's pretty silly. as-> could make this work, right, just by letting another gensym at the end? or i suppose by not letting the last version at all
17:38	amalloy	ie, like https://gist.github.com/amalloy/9081844
17:38	borkdude	patchwork only when I kill the schmetterling instance, my program finishes
17:39	borkdude	patchwork with the exception thrown
17:41	patchwork	borkdude: Strange, not sure what is up with that
17:41	patchwork	I usually use it on a web server and trigger the exception on requests
17:41	patchwork	Then the process continues and you can trigger it again by reloading
17:42	rhg135	quick question, how would i compose a series of channel-returning functions?
17:42	patchwork	Maybe it has something to do with the dt_socket keeping the process alive?
17:42	borkdude	patchwork I don't know. I haven't yet used this in a project, just discovered it.
17:43	bob2	rhg135, ? as in wait on them all?
17:43	hhenkel	(inc oskarkv)
17:43	lazybot	⇒ 2
17:43	rhg135	bob2, i'm such an idiot lol
17:43	patchwork	borkdude: Well, I haven't officially released it yet, but I use it all the time. I will work on that and see what I can find out. There are a lot of quirks in the java debugging interface I have discovered during this process
17:43	rhg135	knew i was overthinking this
17:44	borkdude	patchwork it's great stuff
17:44	rhg135	just run it all in a go block
17:49	patchwork	borkdude: Thanks! all feedback welcome
17:59	`cbp	heh that as-> stuff
17:59	`cbp	maybe make a jira ticket?
17:59	technomancy	seangrove: hey, are you still having issues with build speed?
18:00	technomancy	we rolled out a bunch of changes recently to speed things up; wondering if you've noticed any difference
18:01	sdegutis	oh i saw that on HN
18:02	`cbp	sdegutis: you saw what?
18:07	TravisD	is the seuqence library similar in spirit to the iterator abstraction in the STL for c++?
18:07	TravisD	like, most containers are iterable, let's use that as a unifying interface?
18:08	bbloom	TravisD: you mean the seq abstraction in clojure?
18:09	TravisD	bbloom: yeah, I guess. The book I'm looking at calls something the "seq library", which I guess is just all the functions for dealing with seqable things
18:09	bbloom	TravisD: there's a tiny bit of commonality, but in reality it is muuch much different than the STL iterator idea
18:09	TravisD	ah okay
18:09	bbloom	TravisD: oh i see you mean on http://clojure.org/sequences
18:10	bbloom	TravisD: nobody calls it that :-P
18:10	bbloom	that's just a heading in that documentation page
18:11	TravisD	bbloom: in the book Programming Clojure they talk about the "seq library". But maybe that's just an informal name they are using
18:11	bbloom	TravisD: the major difference between iterators and seqs is that iterators have a much richer network of notions around forwards and backwards, "end" positions, types, etc
18:11	TravisD	ah, right
18:11	bbloom	TravisD: i suspect that's just the author filling content by reading from the clojure home page :-)
18:11	bbloom	TravisD: seqs have basically two operations of interest: first and rest
18:12	bbloom	or next, instead of rest, depending on how you look at it
18:12	bbloom	iterators themselves are mutable, seqs are not
18:12	bbloom	the fact that they help you traverse a sequential abstraction is basically where the similarities end
18:13	sdegutis	Iterators rock.
18:13	sdegutis	Does Clojure have any?
18:13	AeroNotix	sdegutis: persistent data structures
18:13	AeroNotix	immutability
18:13	AeroNotix	iterators are at odds with those things
18:13	TravisD	hm, seems like the two concepts are quite related, no? They both are for traversing collections, with the intention of making it possible to write more general algorithms
18:13	TravisD	the details are obviosuly different
18:13	sdegutis	AeroNotix: It could use atoms.
18:13	amalloy	sdegutis: jillions of them
18:13	amalloy	&(.iterator [1 2 3])
18:13	lazybot	⇒ #< clojure.lang.APersistentVector$2@fcf9e1>
18:13	sdegutis	amalloy: as a Clojure-level feature
18:14	bob2	that's not really what atoms are for
18:14	hiredman	seqs are a functional iteration protocol
18:15	sdegutis	Hey now, let's not adopt a "can't do" attitude!
18:15	sdegutis	We can do anything we set our minds to! Let's totally make iterators!
18:15	turbofail	it's not a "can't do" attitude, it's a "shouldn't do" attitude
18:15	hyPiRion	Let's implement goto guys
18:16	yedi_	lol bbloom: i was down with your pseudo troll in the scala thread on HN
18:16	hiredman	http://okmij.org/ftp/continuations/
18:16	bob2	come-from
18:16	hyPiRion	The return of TAGBODY
18:16	sdegutis	hyPiRion: that'd be awesome
18:16	bob2	hyPiRion, (recur)
18:17	turbofail	recur is too limited in its confusion-generation capabilities
18:17	bbloom	yedi_: using the parent response as a template was very trollish, but it was just too fun
18:17	bob2	haha
18:17	turbofail	we need to go further
18:17	bob2	recur to arbitrary points above you in the stack?
18:17	turbofail	random points, preferably
18:17	qbg	It's called throw :p
18:18	hyPiRion	(inc qbg)
18:18	lazybot	⇒ 2
18:18	sdegutis	But throw only works if you go backwards in execution. I'd like to go forwards.
18:18	sdegutis	I'd like to skip a bunch of steps.
18:19	qbg	Exceptions don't bring you backwards in execution
18:19	qbg	Only forward :)
18:19	sdegutis	Backwards up the stack sir.
18:20	bbloom	you guys should totally start where hiredman sent you :-)
18:20	sdegutis	You may totally skip some steps, whatever is between the try high-point and its catch.
18:21	bbloom	oleg's continuations explorations are super insightful, if you have the patience
19:18	whomp	how do i test if a var is an int vs., say, a char?
19:18	right1	(class)
19:18	`cbp	or type
19:19	whomp	so i'd say, (= (class a) Java.lang.Long) ?
19:19	qbg_	,[(integer? 5) (char? 5)]
19:19	clojurebot	[true false]
19:19	whomp	thx :)
19:19	qbg_	YMMV w.r.t. integer?
19:20	bob2	can you make the caller just provide the right thing?
19:21	akurilin	So let's say I'm bootstrapping some JS for my web application: is there a clojure library that will easily convert clj datastructures into JS syntax so I can inject it into a template?
19:21	akurilin	It's also possible I'm going totally wrong about this.
19:21	logic_prog	dnolen_ : ping
19:22	`cbp	akurilin: serialize into json?
19:22	akurilin	`cbp: oh derp. Ok cheshire it is then.
19:22	`cbp	:-P
19:22	akurilin	For some reason I totally blanked about that one.
19:23	qbg_	clj->js
19:23	`cbp	qbg_: that's clojurescript
19:23	qbg_	sorry, misread :)
19:52	AmnesiousFunes	The first prerelease of Typed Clojure for Light Table is available here: https://github.com/ndr-qef/light-typedclojure
20:25	marcopolo`	AmnesiousFunes: kudos!
20:26	AmnesiousFunes	Thanks
20:27	AmnesiousFunes	Side effects: new LT bug confirmed and 2-3 PRs incoming.
20:39	dsrx	AmnesiousFunes: just curious, why the paredit dep?
20:40	AmnesiousFunes	dsrx: Annotation formatters require some sexp/cursor manipulation
20:40	dsrx	anyone in here using clojurescript to write a chrome extension, spotify application, or anything else that isn't served over http:// (and thus has issues using something like austin or the cljs browser repl)?
20:41	dsrx	if so I just released something you might be interested in, ping me
20:42	dsrx	AmnesiousFunes: ah, makes sense
20:50	donmullen	dsrx: interested in using clojurescript for chrome extension development
20:50	technomancy	I wish I could use lisp for extending my browser too
20:50	technomancy	I don't use chrome though
20:51	sdegutis_	You can!
20:52	sdegutis_	All we need to do is invent a way less convoluted version of HTML/CSS/JS, and make it run inside a custom VM, and make it easy to write browsers for, and then write a browser for it!
20:52	sdegutis_	Then we'll just add Clojure as a scripting language.
20:53	technomancy	no, first you need to reinvent logic gates. the ones we have now are so clunky.
20:53	sdegutis_	Nonsense.
20:53	technomancy	while we're at it, maybe we could find a better material than silicon for semiconductors
20:53	TimMc	water-based gates are more elegant
20:54	TimMc	I have ethical objections to silicon doping.
20:54	technomancy	"a less convoluted version of HTML/CSS/JS" -> "Emacs buffers, overlays, and elisp"
20:54	technomancy	"make it run inside a custom VM" -> check
20:54	technomancy	"make it easy to write browsers for" -> check
20:55	technomancy	"write a browser for it" -> check
20:55	technomancy	ok, that was fun
20:55	sdegutis_	technomancy: how is that last one a check?
20:55	sdegutis_	How is it easy to write a custom browser w/ the elisp vm?
20:56	technomancy	the Info reader is a hyperlinked browser
20:56	sdegutis_	Oh, right.
20:56	sdegutis_	I was thinking something with pixel-based margins.
20:56	sdegutis_	Yes I know, heresy etc.
20:56	technomancy	pixels are so gauché
20:56	technomancy	if you're going to start from scratch at least use voxels
20:57	technomancy	there's also http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/lh/emacs/trunk/annotate/head:/lisp/net/eww.el
21:09	TravisD	Is the list of libraries in a call to (use) is quoted because the symbols it contains may not be defined?
21:10	sdegutis	More like because you don't want to access whatever they may point to.
21:10	sdegutis	,(def clojure.core 3)
21:10	clojurebot	#'sandbox/clojure.core
21:11	sdegutis	,(inc clojure.core)
21:11	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.core, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
21:11	sdegutis	Uhh.
21:11	TravisD	Yeah, I guess you don't want the symbols to be evaluated
21:13	gfredericks	TravisD: notably even after (use ...) finishes those symbols still aren't defined
21:13	gfredericks	,clojure.core
21:13	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.core, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
21:13	TravisD	Ah, cool
21:14	TravisD	an alternative would be to use strings to name the libraries?
21:14	gfredericks	,(require "clojure.string")
21:14	clojurebot	#<ExceptionInfo clojure.lang.ExceptionInfo: Don't know how to create ISeq from: java.lang.Character {:instance \l}>
21:15	gfredericks	require certainly could have been written that way
21:15	TravisD	oh, I mean, that would have been an alternative way to do it
21:15	gfredericks	namespaces in general are and endless source of n00b confusion
21:15	TravisD	hehe
21:16	TravisD	I haven't looked at them too closely yet, but some examples in this book were a bit confusing
21:16	TravisD	it's one of the only place I've seen quoted vectors
21:16	gfredericks	they're not all that complicated, there are just a few things that aren't what you first expect
21:17	gfredericks	quoted vectors are just an alternative to quoting the things inside the vector instead
21:17	gfredericks	e.g. '[foo bar] vs ['foo 'bar]
21:17	TravisD	and you only need to quote it so that the symbols aren't evaluated
21:17	gfredericks	exactly
21:19	TravisD	cool, thanks
21:20	muhoo	how do i rebind a private function inside a ns i don't control?
21:21	bob2	are you sure you need to do that?
21:23	dsrx	donmullen: http://github.com/tomjakubowski/weasel -- provides a websocket transport for the clojurescript repl, as suggested by dnolen in this thread https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/clojure/lC8me2Gx_B4
21:27	dsrx	donmullen: I've not used CLJS for chrome extension development, but I faced a similar problem as the person in that thread connecting a CLJS repl to a spotify application (which is just a web page in an embedded chromium, served over a proprietary sp:// protocol)
21:36	dnolen_	dsrx: donmullen: you all should ping ericnormand when he's around, he's done quite a bit of Chrome Extension ClojureScript dev
21:39	dsrx	dnolen_: good to know, thanks
21:46	echosa	Hey, #clojure. I'm having issues getting a number to always be two decimals places. Not just display two decimal places, but actually be two decimal places. I've been wroking with (with-precision) and a BigDecimal number, but I just can't quite get it right.
21:47	echosa	,(with-precision 2 (* 100M (/ 3 72)))
21:47	clojurebot	4.2M
21:47	echosa	,(with-precision 3 (* 100M (/ 3 72)))
21:47	clojurebot	4.17M
21:48	echosa	,(with-precision 3 (* 100M (/ 40 72)))
21:48	clojurebot	55.6M
21:49	hiredman	decimal places are an artifact of notation, and hence display
21:50	hiredman	you'll have to be clearer about what you want
21:51	echosa	except with-precision is supposed to round them off, but I'm having problems getting it to always have 2 decimal places. I'm showing percentage, so I can assume that (until I hit 100), I'll only ever have 1 or 2 digits before the decimal point.
21:51	echosa	So with 1 digit, I need a precision of 3 (1.23) while with 2 digits, I need a precision of 4 (12.34) it would seem.
21:52	bob2	so you want it to work like money?
21:52	echosa	,(with-precision 3 (* 100M (/ 1 72)))
21:52	clojurebot	1.39M
21:52	hiredman	echosa: it certainly sounds like you are concerned with display to me
21:52	hiredman	in which case you want format
21:52	echosa	bob2: I suppose that's oen way to look at it.
21:53	echosa	hiredman: ok, suppose I'm not and treat this as an excersize. Take display out of it. I want the function return value to be the correct value. I can't see whre I'm goign wrong.
21:53	echosa	Through everythign I'm sending to clojurebot seems to be working-ish
21:53	echosa	I'll check my code for a fifth time
21:54	systemfault	Is the source for clojurebot somewhere?
21:55	hiredman	echosa: in what sense is it wrong?
21:55	systemfault	A IRC bot is usually the first thing I try to write when learning a language :)
21:55	muhoo	systemfault: irclj
21:55	muhoo	specifically https://github.com/Raynes/irclj
21:56	hiredman	clojurebot is perhaps the definition of a legacy software system
21:56	hiredman	~clojurebot is perhaps the definition of a legacy software system
21:56	clojurebot	Alles klar
21:56	systemfault	Thank you
21:56	muhoo	i though clojurebot had a poetic soul
21:56	echosa	hiredman: I'm getting something reproducable. one moment
21:57	systemfault	Is clojurebot bad software or what? :P
21:57	muhoo	systemfault: read the source. it's got... quirks
21:57	systemfault	Now I'm scared of looking at its code because I don't want to learn bad pattern.s
21:58	dsrx	there's also lazybot
21:58	muhoo	systemfault: id suggest looking at irclj, and IIRC lazybot is built on it
21:58	dsrx	I can't speak for the relative quality of either of those projects :D
21:58	systemfault	Ok :)
21:59	muhoo	ok, i asked this, i think. i need to rebind clojure.tools.trace/tracer to a function, globally, that i define (hint: it'll use timbre to log the trace). but i don't reemember how to monkey around with private vars inside someone else's ns
21:59	muhoo	i'm pretty sure it's possible though.
22:01	hiredman	~clojurebot
22:01	clojurebot	clojurebot has a lot of features, most of which are broken
22:01	hiredman	~botsnack
22:01	clojurebot	thanks; that was delicious. (nom nom nom)
22:01	muhoo	aw, why y'all hatin' on clojurebot.
22:02	muhoo	it's just different.
22:02	systemfault	clojurebot should be a synonym for awesome :'(
22:02	muhoo	don't listen, clojurebot. you're ok at what you do and we all appreciate you despite your issues.
22:04	hiredman	~awesome
22:04	clojurebot	your assessment smacks of bias, thus undermining your credibility further. (http://wondermark.com/560/)
22:05	echosa	hiredman: I think it's a logic problem. Lack of sleep. :-/
22:05	systemfault	Oh god... nobody cares about the bot :P It hasn't been touched for 5 months now :P
22:08	hiredman	we have an instance of clojurebot running in our work irc channel, if you ask it about itsself it claims to be powered by neglect
22:09	systemfault	That's what I was saying... the source code of the bot looks neglect'ed
22:09	hiredman	it is mature software
22:09	amalloy	systemfault: what's to change? clojurebot works
22:10	hiredman	clojurebot: amalloy \|claims\| clojurebot works
22:10	clojurebot	In Ordnung
22:10	amalloy	that's what i get for skimping on the "mostly"
22:10	systemfault	amalloy: Just saying that nobody has committed to it in half a year :P Sorry
22:11	systemfault	And it's saying that it's a WIP...
22:19	voldyman	AeroNotix: i swtchied from jetty-adapter to http-kit and sqlite to mysql 500 concurrent connections have negligible overhead.
22:24	echosa	it's weird typing "true" instead of "t"
22:25	muhoo	hmm, i'm not seeing any clues in dire. and google is failing me.
22:26	muhoo	aha, robert.hooke looks lively
22:28	systemfault	Perhaps I'm just saying this because I'm a noob... but I love clojurebot's code :/
22:28	muhoo	it's got some funny stuff in it. and some really esoteric interesting stuff IIRC
22:39	muhoo	delightful! https://www.refheap.com/41829
22:49	dnolen_	pushing out Om 0.5.0-rc1 so people can test against React 0.9.0-rc1
22:54	Tolstoy	dnolen_: Noticed that IWillUnmount isn't on the documentation page. File an issue?
22:54	dnolen_	Tolstoy: better, feel free to add it :)
22:55	noprompt	dnolen_: whoops, sorry i pinged you on twitter. thought you were away.
22:56	noprompt	dnolen_: wrt using om.core/value
22:56	dnolen_	noprompt: it's hooking a bit into implementation details but I don't forsee changes there in the near future
22:57	dnolen_	noprompt: one thing to be concerned about is that om.core/value will return a "cached" value
22:57	noprompt	(vector? data) doesn't work properly but (vector? (om.core/value data)) works fine
22:57	dnolen_	which may or may not reflect the application state
22:57	noprompt	ah ok
22:57	dnolen_	noprompt: yes because we wrap IIndexed types, so it won't be a vector anymore, just IIndexed
22:58	dnolen_	noprompt: that might change in the future, but I haven't felt a need to more specific yet
22:58	noprompt	dnolen_: so how would you suggest going about building a component based inspector?
22:58	dnolen_	noprompt: I haven't put much thought into it honestly, though I'm pretty interested in that.
22:59	dnolen_	noprompt: kovasb has been doing some interesting work here as well
22:59	dnolen_	noprompt: you want to be able to inspect ClojureScript values right?
22:59	noprompt	dnolen_: awesome.
23:00	noprompt	dnolen_: right. and i need to known the type before i make a decision about class names, rendering etc.
23:00	dnolen_	noprompt: honestly the best thing would be to really examine how Om works
23:00	dnolen_	noprompt: and then tell me what you think you need that isn't already there
23:00	dnolen_	and we can discuss
23:01	noprompt	dnolen_: sure. that's how i came across om.core/value. i'm starting to dig through the source more.
23:02	noprompt	dnolen_: we successfully built a decent single page client side app with om/secretary at work.
23:02	dnolen_	noprompt: awesome :)
23:02	noprompt	dnolen_: there's a template we started working on but haven't finished it yet.
23:06	dnolen_	noprompt: kovasb is really working on exactly the same thing - ClojureScript value inspector
23:06	dnolen_	I would love to see this as a generic reusable component
23:06	dnolen_	super useful for everyone.
23:08	noprompt	dnolen_: i've got most of the pprint part working; just wanted to know what would be the safest route to ask vector? map? etc w/ cursors.
23:09	noprompt	dnolen_: this morning i noticed om.core/read is no longer a part of the API.
23:10	dnolen_	noprompt: yep it's been gone for a while now
23:10	dnolen_	noprompt: no longer needed
23:10	dnolen_	noprompt: you can just deref
23:10	dnolen_	noprompt: to deal w/ vectors you need to wrap in VectorCursor which of course I haven't implemented.
23:11	dnolen_	the hook is -to-cursor
23:11	noprompt	dnolen_: but i'd have to implement all the protocols right?
23:11	dnolen_	VectorCursor would need to support all the obvious ops, and implement the IVector marker protocol
23:11	dnolen_	noprompt: yes you would.
23:12	dnolen_	noprompt: but it's just boilerplate
23:13	dnolen_	noprompt: another way is perhaps to do this via metadata?
23:13	mgaare	is anything going on with ritz? plans to get it up to date with the current state of things in emacs, cider, etc?
23:16	noprompt	dnolen_: doesn't look like meta did it.
23:17	noprompt	dnolen_: i guess i could take a swing at the protocl implementation.
23:17	noprompt	dnolen_: it doesn't look to big. just wordy.
23:17	dnolen_	noprompt: oh, right ... you can check type of value to if that's what you were thinking about
23:17	dnolen_	noprompt: implementation detail for you that you can switch later
23:18	noprompt	dnolen_: yeah. basically that's all i'm doing is a cond with (type-fn? (value data))
23:19	dnolen_	noprompt: ok that's fine for now, and you can do something cleaner later I think.
23:19	noprompt	dnolen_: heh, well now i'm looking at the protocol thing. :)
23:29	akurilin	Question: ok so let's say you use Migratus for DDL migrations. What do you use for when you also need to "migrate" the data itself as part of that schema change? For example, say you're splitting a table into two: you'd make the new table, move the data from the old one, and then apply schema changes to the old table, all within one transaction.l
23:30	akurilin	You can do it in Migratus as long as you can do the move 100% in sql statements, but it'd be cool to be able to plugin some jdbc/korma logic in there too.
23:31	logic_prog	is there a way to define a function that is called every time a namesapce is loaded?
23:31	logic_prog	I wnat my own tool to sanity-check/lint every namesapce that is loaded
23:31	akurilin	Right now I essentially do a partial migration, run a task from clojure, then complete the migration.
23:33	noprompt	,(ns foo (:println "foo"))
23:33	noprompt
23:33	clojurebot	foo\n
23:33	noprompt	logic_prog: ^
23:34	logic_prog	noprompt ... hmm
23:34	noprompt	logic_prog: dunno, if that helps but when you load the file that code will run.
23:34	logic_prog	noprompt: my question was poorly phrased
23:34	logic_prog	noprompt: let me write it up, spam the clojure list, and point you to the clojure list
23:36	noprompt	how did i not know about specify?
23:37	logic_prog	noprompt: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/clojure/wx-naQUqi4o
23:37	logic_prog	noprompt: is specify a clojure function?
23:37	logic_prog	noprompt: I'm not seeing it here: http://clojuredocs.org/search?x=0&y=0&q=specify
23:38	noprompt	looks like specify and specify! are clojurescript fns
23:38	noprompt	sorry, macros
23:40	noprompt	logic_prog: honestly, and this could be the wrong idea, but you might need a macro for that.
23:40	logic_prog	noprompt: I agree, I think macros = wrong idea. :-)
23:40	logic_prog	I don't want to do things like :my-require ...
23:40	logic_prog	or hack ns
23:41	noprompt	logic_prog: for instance (defmacro slurp [file] `(clojure.core/slurp ~file)) will work in clojurescript but only at compile-time.
23:41	logic_prog	worse yet, it won't be called every time a clj file is reloaded
23:41	noprompt	whoops drop the ` ~
23:42	noprompt	logic_prog: that would at least give you the ability to read the file so it would be available in cljs land as a string.
23:44	noprompt	logic_prog: in this case i'm not sure i would totally agree that macros are the wrong way to go because you may actually need clojure to do what you want.
23:49	logic_prog	(inc noprompt) ;; for effort :-)
23:49	lazybot	⇒ 1
23:51	sdegutis	,clojure
23:51	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: clojure in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
23:51	sdegutis	Nope.
23:52	noprompt	guess my points got reset. :/
23:55	sdegutis	$karma noprompt
23:55	lazybot	noprompt has karma 5.
23:56	sdegutis	noprompt: it's just an eager regex
23:56	sdegutis	(inc noprompt) one more paren for good measure)
23:56	lazybot	⇒ 1
23:56	sdegutis	(inc noprompt) and another)
23:56	lazybot	⇒ 1
23:56	sdegutis	:)
23:58	noprompt	logic_prog: here's the gist (ns foo.core
23:58	noprompt	(:refer-clojure :exclude [slurp]))
23:58	noprompt	(defmacro slurp [file]
23:58	noprompt	(clojure.core/slurp file))
23:58	noprompt	;; In CLJS
23:58	noprompt	(ns bar.core
23:58	noprompt	(:require [foo.core :include-macros true :refer [slurp]]))
23:58	noprompt	;; This is possible because we can evaluate Clojure code at compile time.
23:58	noprompt	(def project-clj
23:58	noprompt	(slurp "project.clj"))
23:58	noprompt	well shit. i meant to give you a link. ;_;
23:58	noprompt	https://gist.github.com/noprompt/9086232
23:58	noprompt	i'll post to the ML too for good measure. ;-_
23:59	_eric	does clojure have a string quoting notation like ruby's %{} or scala's """ """?
23:59	_eric	(to make it so you don't have to escape a double quote)
23:59	logic_prog	spammer!! :-)
23:59	logic_prog	(inc noprompt)
23:59	lazybot	⇒ 6
23:59	noprompt	_eric: no
23:59	_eric	bummer
23:59	noprompt	_eric: you've got str though