2013-12-07
| 00:00 | bbloom_ | seangrove: code academy is awesome too. our big differentiator is simply that we use blockly, so there is no typing required |
| 00:00 | bbloom_ | also, we have angry birds. c'mon now, everybody loves angry birds |
| 00:01 | seangrove | bbloom_: Sure sure, just trying to categorize it so I know when it's appropriate to recommend |
| 00:01 | bbloom_ | if you go to hourofcode.com/co you'll be able to categorize it rapidly |
| 00:01 | bbloom_ | that dumps you right in to the tutorial |
| 00:03 | seangrove | bbloom_: Wow, very polished looking. Is there a legitimate curve to programming more abstract/low level?? |
| 00:03 | lazybot | seangrove: What are you, crazy? Of course not! |
| 00:03 | seangrove | woops, just one ? |
| 00:05 | bbloom_ | seangrove: the "hour of code" tutorial covers basic while loops and if/else conditionals. the extended "20 hour" curriculum we offer has for loops, subroutines & parameters, etc |
| 00:07 | bbloom_ | isn't it funny how lazybot can condition us not to use too many question marks?? |
| 00:07 | lazybot | bbloom_: Definitely not. |
| 00:07 | seangrove | bbloom_: This is pretty awesome, very impressive. The coolest hello world I've ever seen. |
| 00:08 | bbloom_ | seangrove: thanks! i'll pass "coolest hello world" on to the rest of the team, they'll like that :-) |
| 00:08 | seangrove | Heh, Zuckerberg looks a bit uncomfortable a few times through the video |
| 00:09 | bbloom_ | seangrove: frankly, i'm impressed by the delta in his perceived comfort level over the years |
| 00:09 | seangrove | bbloom_: I remember seeing this block-like system awhile ago, is it out of MIT? |
| 00:10 | bbloom_ | seangrove: MIT is best known for Scratch. the 2.0 version up at http://scratch.mit.edu is all flash & is pretty cool stuff. great free-form thing. highly recommended that students try it out after our stuff, which is linear |
| 00:10 | bbloom_ | seangrove: however, our tutorials are build w/ google blockly: https://code.google.com/p/blockly/ |
| 00:10 | bbloom_ | seangrove: which is html/svg/closure (note: no j, sadly) |
| 00:10 | seangrove | bbloom_: Ah, ok. Kind of feel like this would be pretty awesome on the ipad as well. May just be the angry birds talking though. |
| 00:11 | bbloom_ | seangrove: i'm a little out of the loop on our devices support story, but iirc we're totally ipad compatible |
| 00:14 | bbloom_ | sorry for the advertising, i'm just excited/proud :-) |
| 00:14 | seangrove | bbloom_: Not sure this is a bug or not, I could just be thick https://www.dropbox.com/s/4wqsyr38j9zuh7q/hourofcodebug.mov |
| 00:14 | seangrove | bbloom_: Definitely something you could be proud of. I like this kind of civic project. |
| 00:14 | bbloom_ | seangrove: that's not a bug, but it is a known usability shortcoming |
| 00:15 | bbloom_ | seangrove: some levels have fixed/required blocks |
| 00:15 | bbloom_ | they just aren't visually differentiated :-/ |
| 00:15 | seangrove | bbloom_: Ok, that's fine. Thought it was either that or a bug. |
| 00:15 | clojurebot | I don't understand. |
| 00:15 | bbloom_ | clojurebot: you wouldn't |
| 00:15 | clojurebot | Excuse me? |
| 00:18 | maravillas | bbloom_: this is great, thanks for sharing |
| 00:19 | bbloom_ | maravillas: thanks, my pleasure :-) |
| 00:20 | maravillas | i've been doing some scratch with my son, but i think i dove in a little too fast...some of these look like better starting points |
| 00:21 | bbloom_ | maravillas: yeah, i was volunteering teaching scratch to some middle school kids here in NYC & it was just too much stuff. it's overloading. i love scatch, but about half way through the course i had some kids beta testing our tutorials & holy crap, it's like having a team of spare teachers plus a room full of baby sitters at the same time :-) |
| 00:25 | maravillas | yeah, it seems like having directed goals plus the components already in place would help a lot, and let you get to the meat without having to fiddle around with the incidental sprite stuff first |
| 00:26 | bbloom_ | maravillas: yup. scratch needs like a complexity slider :-) |
| 00:27 | bbloom_ | maravillas: it's like in games when you get a new weapon or there is a new enemy type. they introcuce them one at a time, and there is some dialog, and you get presented with an immediate use case for your new capability |
| 00:27 | bbloom_ | works great |
| 00:27 | bbloom_ | but when it's time to fight the boss, you gotta figure that shit out w/ the tools in your toolbox! |
| 00:27 | maravillas | yeah, good analogy |
| 00:44 | technomancy | bbloom_: good luck with the launch! |
| 00:45 | technomancy | the limited toolbox aspect actually reminded me of The Incredible Machine |
| 00:45 | technomancy | and it makes me really disappointed that there's no OSS remake of it; come on guys |
| 00:49 | musicalchair | bbloom_: this angry birds tutorial is good stuff! |
| 01:06 | jph- | musicalchair: link? |
| 01:07 | musicalchair | jph-: http://code.org/ click start |
| 01:07 | musicalchair | scroll up for more discussion ^^ =) |
| 01:08 | jph- | musicalchair: is it cloj? |
| 01:08 | musicalchair | jph-: no |
| 01:08 | jph- | oh this is what happened with this stuff |
| 01:08 | jph- | cool |
| 01:12 | seangrove | Oh, damnit, I did something interesting in emacs, hit c-g, tried to look up the binding I hit, and it was something else |
| 01:12 | seangrove | technomancy: How can I find out what binding/command I invoked? |
| 01:13 | andyf | C-h l for history of keystrokes? |
| 01:13 | lemonodor | C-h l |
| 01:13 | seangrove | andyf lemonodor: thank you, found it! |
| 01:18 | nonuby | could this http://stackoverflow.com/questions/20437767/what-happens-to-second-println-statement-clojure-repl/20438112?noredirect=1#comment30532129_20438112 be down to optimizations on server vm / 64 bit? |
| 01:35 | bellkev | does anybody know of anything like a generic leiningen "watch" plugin? |
| 01:35 | bellkev | It seems like cljsbuild has most of the makings of such a thing with its "crossover" utilities... it seems like it could be handy to turn it into a separate file-watching plugin... |
| 01:41 | seangrove | bellkev: I thought someone just announced that... |
| 01:42 | bellkev | are you thinking of lein sync? because that looks like it's something else at first glance... |
| 01:43 | john2x | um, can I use .clj library in a cljs project? Or I'd have to make a port of the clj library? |
| 01:43 | seangrove | bellkev: Oh, no, I'm looking through the ml now |
| 01:43 | seangrove | bellkev: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/clojure/iXA49B-n1oA ? |
| 01:45 | bellkev | oh, cool |
| 01:46 | bellkev | thanks, seangrove, I'll give it a look |
| 01:46 | seangrove | bellkev: Hope it works out! |
| 01:46 | bellkev | also, while I appreciate the creative names in the clojure community, I would have found this right away if it was called lein-watch and on the plugin list :P |
| 01:47 | bellkev | But it looks like it's too new to even be on the list yet |
| 01:47 | bellkev | but anyway, thanks again seangrove! |
| 01:47 | seangrove | well, technomancy immediately asked the author to put it on the list, heh |
| 02:22 | jph- | any incanter wizards? im trying to view a time series chart, but one axis data is in range of 0.000x (so it isnt visible) |
| 02:22 | jph- | is there a scale or range option for charting? |
| 02:34 | john2x | what does this error mean in cljs "Uncaught Error: Undefined nameToPath for my_other_namespace.core" |
| 02:36 | john2x | oops, typo (ns ...) in my_other_namespace |
| 02:46 | bitemyapp | seangrove: ML modules are nice. |
| 02:49 | bitemyapp | I actually imitate them with protocols sometimes. So does Sierra. |
| 03:19 | jarodzz | hi, guys |
| 03:19 | jarodzz | any one using pedestal? |
| 03:30 | bitemyapp | jarodzz: not many, but some have good use cases for it. What's yours? |
| 03:49 | jarodzz | :bitemyapp i'm still trying to understand the concept |
| 03:50 | jarodzz | :bitemyapp not yet put it into a real case |
| 03:50 | jarodzz | but glad to know there's some one using it |
| 04:03 | john2x | do I need to sign the CA to request changes on a github wiki entry? |
| 04:05 | john2x | apparently the `format` fn doesn't exist in cljs.. I think it deserves a mention in this page https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/wiki/Differences-from-Clojure |
| 05:37 | bitemyapp | jarodzz: you probably want luminus if you just want to make web apps in Clojure. |
| 05:38 | jarodzz | :bitemyapp thanks for the suggestion, man. i want to create some thing with clojure as a learning process |
| 05:39 | jarodzz | bitemyapp: i'm still trying to figure out concepts like atoms, refs |
| 05:39 | jarodzz | bitemyapp: thanks for the suggestion man |
| 05:42 | cYmen | Sometimes I feel like the entire variable amount of arguments thing is crap. |
| 06:31 | wei__ | how do I cast a Clojure biginteger to java.math.BigDecimal? any dangers in doing so? (this is for Postgres compatibility, in case that matters) |
| 06:35 | TEttinger | ,(doc bigdec) |
| 06:35 | clojurebot | "([x]); Coerce to BigDecimal" |
| 06:35 | TEttinger | ,(bigdec 11111111111111111111111111111111111111N) |
| 06:35 | clojurebot | 11111111111111111111111111111111111111M |
| 06:35 | TEttinger | wei__: ^ |
| 06:36 | wei__ | oh, very good. thanks TEttinger |
| 06:36 | TEttinger | no prob |
| 08:25 | echo-area | Is khinsen on github the same people on http://dirac.cnrs-orleans.fr/plone/Members/hinsen? |
| 08:26 | echo-area | (The people who write clojure.algo.monads) |
| 08:26 | echo-area | *writes |
| 10:59 | S3thc0n | Hello #clojure! I found a new love to spend Christmas with :D |
| 10:59 | llasram | Is it Clojure? |
| 10:59 | S3thc0n | Yes! It is amazing! |
| 11:00 | andyf | Have you treated yourself to a Clojure book as an early Christmas present yet? I recommend getting one. |
| 11:01 | S3thc0n | Not yet, but I've played with the thought. Anyone you would recommend for someone new to FP, btu still wanting a quite extensive one? |
| 11:02 | S3thc0n | I have an OO background (first language was C++), and Clojure has this inherent beauty I've always been missing. It's more than a tool. |
| 11:02 | andyf | Check out Clojure Programming by Emerick, Carper, and Grand on Amazon, or O'Reilly's web site. Should be able to peruse the table of contents, at least, if not a sample chapter. |
| 11:03 | S3thc0n | Thanks! |
| 11:03 | andyf | e.g. here is O'Reilly's listing, with the ability to browse contents: http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920013754.do |
| 11:04 | pdk | it's not lisp related but if you want to learn fp in general there are free books on haskell and erlang too |
| 11:05 | S3thc0n | I think I'll stay at Clojure first except for concepts (where it doesn't matter what language is behind it); else it could get a bit confusing. |
| 11:07 | pdk | yea |
| 11:07 | pdk | clojure is also a bit of a far cry from "traditional" lisp in a few respects |
| 11:07 | pdk | so if you took both concurrently i imagine there'd be some wires getting crossed |
| 11:07 | S3thc0n | Yeah, that is what I am concerned with. |
| 11:08 | S3thc0n | I've watched an explanation by Brian beckman on Monads today, and wanted to know if I have understood it properly: In it's essence it just prepares data for another function? And what does that have to do with side effects? |
| 11:09 | pdk | oreilly also has a book available |
| 11:09 | pdk | functional patterns in scala and clojure i think |
| 11:09 | pdk | scala is the "other" big functional language on the jvm right now |
| 11:10 | S3thc0n | Yeah, I noticed it first as it attracts a bit more attention, but decided that Clojure seems to fit better to my way, so I'll learn that first. |
| 11:10 | andyf | S3thc0n: I don't understand monads well enough to risk trying to teach someone else about them, but I will mention that although some Clojure programmers understand and use them, you can get work done without monads, and most Clojure code I've seen doesn't use them. |
| 11:10 | S3thc0n | Oh, well then I don't have to force my head around them for now. Thanks for the clarification :) |
| 11:12 | andyf | S3thc0n: I'd like to grok them some day more fully, but it isn't high on my priority list of things to do at the moment. Clojure programmers tend to write lots of pure functions, but then call them from functions that do modify state explicitly. |
| 11:12 | andyf | Ideally with the state modification code fairly well contained in a relatively small fraction of the code. |
| 11:14 | S3thc0n | AM I right when I think that you face the very same problems you have avoided internally by not having mutable state as soon as you start interacting with something like a database which uses locks? |
| 11:19 | justin_smith | S3thc0n: a lock is how something mutable can pretend it has some consistency |
| 11:20 | justin_smith | if anything the part where it has locks is helpful |
| 11:21 | justin_smith | and since immutibility makes async easier, you can use async to make the locks invisible (except so far as they affect timing / performance - but those should not be first class things you have to deal with in your code, just side effects of a design) |
| 11:31 | S3thc0n | Ok, I have one more question. Does a clojure have any purpose apart from saving you from needing to keep the arguments for a function that would do the same somewhere? |
| 11:31 | S3thc0n | Closure I meant. oop.s |
| 11:36 | andyf | S3thc0n: I am not sure if this is an example of what you are asking about, or a different reason to use closures, but they are very convenient when locally defining a function to be passed to another function like map, mapcat, filter, etc., and you want that function you write to refer to values in the environment where the map/filter/etc. call is. |
| 11:37 | andyf | An example would clarify that statement, I think. |
| 11:37 | WWWest1 | S3thc0n: that's the main point, it makes it easier to create functions on the fly for your program while keeping a consistent state |
| 11:37 | S3thc0n | I get it like that, thanks! |
| 11:39 | S3thc0n | So I said 'any purpose apart from ', but actually it solves my main concern with functional languages yet, namely being forced to pass around every little thing as argument. |
| 11:48 | justin_smith | S3thc0n: a full object system (inheritance, multimethods, etc. etc.) can be constructed out of closures - they are extremely powerful |
| 11:48 | justin_smith | of course given that our base language is the jvm we don't have to do that |
| 11:49 | S3thc0n | Wouldn't that kind of defeat he point of immutability? |
| 11:52 | newblue | S3thc0n: a closure can be a nice place to quarantine state. Unfortunately (or fortunately) we can't *always* be stateless |
| 11:53 | justin_smith | S3thc0n: you can replace an object instead of mutating, also |
| 11:53 | S3thc0n | justin_smith. That is what I thought it is commonly done like. |
| 11:53 | andyf | S3thc0n: When people are taught the Scheme programming language, closures are often used to show how to create private mutable state, similar to objects in many other languages. It isn't often used in Clojure, because the JVM has mutable objects already. |
| 11:54 | S3thc0n | So using JVMs built in objects is preferable to using clojures for 'emulating' objects? |
| 11:55 | justin_smith | mostly |
| 11:55 | justin_smith | maybe I did to much scheme programming, but sometimes it is a natural fit |
| 11:55 | newblue | andyf: you got me! that's where I learned about closures and how I approach them - never gave much thought to using interop instead |
| 11:56 | andyf | newblue: There is nothing wrong with using that technique in Clojure -- I just haven't seen it very often used. That particular sharp-edged tool is there in the toolbox, though. |
| 11:59 | justin_smith | it is the yin to the yang of writing procedural code where you repeatedly rebind the same symbol in a let binding block |
| 11:59 | justin_smith | ,(let [a 0 a (inc a) a (* a a)] a) |
| 11:59 | clojurebot | 1 |
| 11:59 | justin_smith | bad example |
| 11:59 | justin_smith | ,(let [a 1 a (inc a) a (* a a)] a) |
| 11:59 | clojurebot | 4 |
| 11:59 | newblue | andyf: I just don't know Java that well so I avoid interop when I can since debugging it is really scary |
| 12:00 | justin_smith | interop is easier to debug eventually - because stack traces and errors are presented in terms of the jvm version of reality, rather than the clojure version |
| 12:00 | justin_smith | but you need to grok the jvm's concept of things a little before that works |
| 12:01 | justin_smith | what trips me up is the interaction of laziness and stack traces - your code order in the stack does not really reflect the order in the file sometimes... |
| 12:04 | newblue | justin_smith: having the stack traces make more sense is an enticing benefit... |
| 12:05 | wei__ | trying to use tools.namespace: (use '[clojure.tools.namespace.repl :only (refresh)]) and getting FileNotFoundException: Could not locate clojure/tools/namespace/repl__init.class |
| 12:06 | justin_smith | newblue: it is also partially a fluency thing - you read them more, they make more sense |
| 12:06 | justin_smith | I remember when I would see one and my eyes would glaze over - I would get no information out of the huge mass of spew |
| 12:07 | justin_smith | wei__: how are you declaring the tools.namespace dependency? |
| 12:08 | wei__ | justin_smith: :profiles { :dev {:source-paths ["dev"] :dependencies [[org.clojure/tools.namespace "0.2.4"]]} |
| 12:08 | wei__ | in project.clj |
| 12:08 | justin_smith | if you run lein classpath, do you see clojure.tools.namespace in the output? |
| 12:10 | wei__ | interesting, yes but it's pointing to 0.1.3. is the dependency version getting overwritten somewhere? |
| 12:10 | justin_smith | lein deps :tree |
| 12:10 | justin_smith | see what is pulling it in |
| 12:10 | justin_smith | add an :exclusions clause |
| 12:11 | wei__ | hmm, lein deps :tree gives me: Consider using these exclusions: java.lang.NullPointerException |
| 12:11 | justin_smith | lol, it would be good to exclude that, huh |
| 12:11 | justin_smith | there is also mvn deps:tree |
| 12:12 | wei__ | no reference to tools.namespace though |
| 12:13 | wei__ | justin_smith: mvn deps:tree also errors with "No plugin found for prefix 'deps' in the current project" |
| 12:13 | justin_smith | sorry, wrong command |
| 12:13 | justin_smith | mvn dependency:tree |
| 12:13 | justin_smith | that one works (just verified) |
| 12:15 | wei__ | looks like ring is the culprit? https://gist.github.com/yayitswei/7845544 |
| 12:15 | justin_smith | so you can do [ring "1.2.0" :exclusions [org.clojure/tools.namespace]] |
| 12:16 | justin_smith | or something similar to that syntax |
| 12:16 | justin_smith | yeah, that's the syntax |
| 12:16 | justin_smith | or maybe use a newer ring, while you are at it |
| 12:20 | wei__ | ah, thanks |
| 12:20 | wei__ | btw I found the source of the NPE, lein deps :tree seems to break when there are duplicates in dependency vector |
| 12:21 | justin_smith | interesting |
| 13:51 | wei__ | I'm suddenly getting this exception when calling "lein run": Exception in thread "main" javax.naming.NoInitialContextException: Need to specify class name in environment or system property, or as an applet parameter, or in an application resource file: java.naming.factory.initial. |
| 13:52 | wei__ | anyone seen something similar before? |
| 14:23 | sveri | hi, i set up a cljs project with leiningen, now when i run lein cljsbuild auto it retrieves a lot of jars, but then hangs on: Retrieving clj-stacktrace/clj-stacktrace/0.2.5/clj-stacktrace-0.2.5.jar is there anything wrong with this? i tried this already some hours ago from another internet provider and it hang at the same place, i never seen this happen |
| 14:33 | lvh | Hello! I've got a tiny little project I'd like to try to get my feet wet with in Clojure. I've got an SVG Christmas card envelope, and a bunch of addresses in CSV. I guess what I want after that is obvious :) Should I create a lein project for this? |
| 14:33 | lvh | It seems that's what everything starts with |
| 14:33 | seangrove | lvh: Definitely |
| 14:34 | seangrove | lein new my-project, find a library to handle svg and add it to your project.clj under :dependencies, start up `lein repl` and you're off! |
| 14:34 | thieman | lvh: There are also some specific lein templates that you might want to use, for example if you want to start a project using Compojure you could `lein new compojure my-project` to start a project with the right dependencies |
| 14:35 | lvh | Ah, okay. |
| 14:35 | lvh | For SVG I was just thinking of using an svg parser. |
| 14:36 | lvh | Essentially I just need to change the text of "#address tspan" (to use CSS selectors) |
| 14:36 | lvh | I'm guessing there's no particular kind of lein template for this? |
| 14:37 | arcatan | sveri: cljsbuild auto does not say anything when it's waiting for the source to change, so if that's the last message, then it might be just waiting for you to do some changes in your cljs |
| 14:37 | thieman | Probably not, but you might look into the library enlive for modifying the SVG. Lets you transform parts of the document based on CSS-like selectors, at least for HTML. Not positive it works for SVG. |
| 14:37 | sveri | arcatan: that makes sense |
| 14:37 | emaphis`` | sveri: try [clj-stacktrace "0.2.7"], I just downloaded it to a dummy project and it worked. |
| 14:37 | sveri | i got it working now |
| 14:37 | sveri | i cleaned the .m2 folder |
| 14:48 | justin_smith | lvh: http://liebke.github.io/analemma/ analemma is good for making svg out of clojure data structures |
| 14:48 | justin_smith | you can use clojure.data.xml to do the converse |
| 14:48 | lvh | justin_smith: Yeah, I was gonna do that. I already have an SVG. |
| 14:48 | lvh | I basically just want to fill it with data from a CSV file. |
| 14:48 | justin_smith | it may be easier to use a templating library in that case |
| 14:48 | lvh | the SVG already has proper tag ids, so I just have to grep for #address tspan, #name tspan, etc |
| 14:49 | justin_smith | analemma is good for if you want to use a data structure to generate the svg from scratch |
| 14:49 | justin_smith | well if you use clojure.data.xml you don't need to grep, you can look up the tags in the data structure, do the modification, then turn it into xml again |
| 14:49 | justin_smith | svg is just a kind of xml |
| 14:50 | amacdougall | Curious about testing. I've got a Clojure/ClojureScript app. I want to run functional tests on the CLJS side. Since I want it to have a fixed set of test data, it seems like I should strike at the very root, and replace the server-side "db" namespace with something that returns stuff from files instead of the database. |
| 14:50 | amacdougall | Basically I want to run the server-side app in a different mode which has a different code path. I'm just not sure of the most straightforward way to do that. |
| 14:51 | justin_smith | amacdougall: one option is to refactor so your "interface" (the part that interacts with the data source) is as thin and trivial as possible, and the rest is all simple pure functions |
| 14:52 | justin_smith | then you can test those functions with the inputs you know they will get |
| 14:52 | justin_smith | and have a couple of simple tests for the data gathering stage |
| 14:53 | amacdougall | I'm not so concerned with testing the db access functions themselves -- I'm looking for a dead-simple way to enforce a static data set for the client-side tests. |
| 14:53 | cprice404 | hey, anyone know whether there are restrictions on what characters can be used in function / method names when using `proxy`? |
| 14:54 | amacdougall | justin_smith: The client side just makes API requests. /api/v1/users/1 and so on. Obviously I could mock things at the client side instead, but changing the functionality of the server-side db functions seems even simpler. |
| 14:54 | justin_smith | amacdougall: so make the functions so they don't rely on the db, and call them with data structured in the way you expect |
| 14:54 | cprice404 | i have a protocol that has a function name with a dash in it, and it seems like it might not be possible to define that function inside of a `proxy` call |
| 14:55 | justin_smith | unless your db layer is untrustworthy, why test db access? just call your code with the data the db will return |
| 14:55 | amacdougall | justin_smith: I think I get you. Maybe what I'm really asking is how to run my app in a test mode which has the different behavior. |
| 14:56 | amacdougall | Step One: Understand Thy Own Question. |
| 14:56 | justin_smith | amacdougall: my way of doing it is not to run the app, but to run the individual fucntions and verify their output |
| 14:57 | justin_smith | amacdougall: if you design in an fp style this is easy, and if it is hard to do that, it is a sign you could make your codebase more functional |
| 14:57 | justin_smith | but that's just how I prefer to do it, there are probably other good ways to do this, like with-redefs or making something that implements the right protocol (test stub) but I think that stuff gets weird and more complicated than it needs to be |
| 15:01 | amacdougall | justin_smith: The ultimate goal is that on the client side, I test things by simulating user actions. I'm using a JS library called FuncUnit that makes this easy. It loads the entire site, does stuff, asserts a DOM state, closes the site; repeat. I just want to load the site with a static dataset. It's not the data I'm testing -- it's the UI functionality and application flow. |
| 15:02 | amacdougall | justin_smith: I might have been phrasing things wrong, or I might currently be misunderstanding your advice. |
| 15:04 | amacdougall | I can think of plenty of ways of doing this by changing the main application code -- like checking some test-only constant to decide whether to serve test data, or something. But that seems totally wrong. I might just be stuck in an OO mindset where my first thought is dependency injection. |
| 15:04 | amacdougall | "Just replace the db object!" except obviously it's not an object. |
| 15:04 | justin_smith | there may be a reasonable way to do that. I avoid full-app mockup testing myself so I wouldn't be able to give good leads about it. |
| 15:04 | seangrove | The only place you should be injecting dependencies is behind the dumpster in an alleyway |
| 15:04 | coventry | I think justin_smith's suggestion is that you factor out your cljs so that you can simulate the client-side/database events just by passing them in as function arguments. |
| 15:05 | amacdougall | seangrove: It's safe as long as I don't share IDEs. |
| 15:05 | seangrove | I don't actually believe that, but it sounded vaguely plausible. |
| 15:05 | justin_smith | coventry: exactly |
| 15:05 | seangrove | amacdougall: Good man. |
| 15:06 | amacdougall | Ah, okay, I did misunderstand, then. So basically, put the test-specific functionality at the CLJS level in the first place. That makes sense, since it's the CLJS that I'm testing anyway. |
| 15:06 | justin_smith | coventry: amacdougall clearly not the only way to do it, but the only reliable and simple way I have found |
| 15:10 | solidus_ | can someone recommend some open source projects written in clojure? I want to get a feel to how clojure is used in medium/big projects |
| 15:11 | noncom | hi, is there any simple way to make timbre log 2 different sets of information to 2 different files? |
| 15:12 | thieman | solidus: Not a great answer for you, but GitHub will point you to some neat projects for a given language. https://github.com/trending?l=clojure |
| 15:12 | dsrx | Storm is a pretty massive project |
| 15:13 | dsrx | albeit, mostly written in java i guess |
| 15:15 | dnolen | dsrx: a lot of that Java is/was generated according to Nathan Marz |
| 15:15 | coventry | solidus: I've gotten a lot out of reading ztellman's code. I wouldn't read those projects to get a sense for how it's used, as their intended usage is a bit out there. But one of his popular ones might be good. |
| 15:16 | justin_smith | noncom: https://github.com/ptaoussanis/timbre/blob/master/src/taoensso/timbre.clj#L174 global atom, you could do it but it would be a pain in the ass :( |
| 15:16 | coventry | solidus: Maybe aleph or lamina? |
| 15:16 | justin_smith | noncom: you could lock the atom, reset! it, log, then restore and release the lock for each call, but that would be a pain |
| 15:17 | justin_smith | solidus_: the default caribou template installs a cms capable of building a whole site, so it could arguably be considered a large open source clojure app |
| 15:18 | justin_smith | though it is meant to be extended with one's own pages and controllers etc. |
| 15:19 | justin_smith | seconding ztellman's projects as good for reading, stuart sierra is another good one for that |
| 15:19 | coventry | "those projects" meaning the ones I read, riddley and sleight. |
| 15:22 | noncom | yah, looks like no simple way... |
| 15:23 | justin_smith | we need a pure functional logger! |
| 15:23 | justin_smith | or at least one with lexical bindings for config |
| 15:23 | noncom | :) |
| 15:23 | andyf_ | justin_smith: It has one. identity :-) |
| 15:24 | noncom | but maybe i could use a dynamic var to designate the path for the file and create two helper functions with (binding ...) ? |
| 15:24 | coventry | "What do you mean it has no side-effects? *I* know it ran." |
| 15:24 | noncom | do string values get passed by pointer or value? |
| 15:24 | noncom | pointer i gueess |
| 15:25 | andyf_ | noncom: In Java, they are passed by reference (i.e. pointer), but they are immutable, so I'm not sure when it would make a difference between by reference and by value. |
| 15:25 | justin_smith | noncom: may be simpler / more powerful to simply replace the global atom with a dynamic var / binding forms |
| 15:26 | justin_smith | stack usage? |
| 15:26 | devn | good afternoon all |
| 15:26 | justin_smith | I don't think passing by value even happens in the jvm world, except maybe for unboxed primitives |
| 15:26 | noncom | uhh.. i jut did not want to make any invasive surgery :) |
| 15:26 | andyf_ | justin_smith: Yes, it would make a difference in time and/or memory usage, but for other kinds of observable behavior, I can't think of a difference. |
| 15:26 | justin_smith | right |
| 15:27 | noncom | i mean when i designate the file path by a dynamic variable, it will be the pointer, not the value of it, so i can later bind the dynamic var to diferent strings... i guess.... or i'll have to dig inside timbre and redefine some stuff |
| 15:28 | justin_smith | yeah, I was trying to suggest forking timbre and changing the definition of config would be simpler than dynamic binding of config vars with the existing timbre |
| 15:28 | justin_smith | but that could be wrong |
| 15:29 | noncom | oh forking, right |
| 15:33 | akurilin | bitemyapp: just fyi I started using xmonad earlier yesterday, pretty cool so far, very spartan. On a side note, Haskell syntax looks super alien right now. I wonder if everybody feels that way at first :) |
| 15:33 | seangrove | akurilin: The endless complaints about clojure syntax hints that everyone does... |
| 15:34 | akurilin | seangrove: hah yes I know what you're talking about. Every Clojure-related HN post ever has at least a couple of replies saying "now if only the syntax didn't have so many parentheses" |
| 15:35 | coventry | They care more about their power-to-weight ratio than their appearance. :-) http://book.realworldhaskell.org/ |
| 15:35 | noncom | btw, how do you usually format (let) ? do you start the bindings [] on the next line or on the same line? |
| 15:37 | akurilin | coventry: is that a good starting point? |
| 15:37 | andyf_ | noncom: same line always for me, and most code I've read |
| 15:38 | noncom | damn... |
| 15:38 | justin_smith | noncom: not universally agreed with, but a good starting point https://github.com/bbatsov/clojure-style-guide |
| 15:39 | akurilin | oh man, I remember using bbatsov's guide back in my ruby days |
| 15:39 | andyf_ | noncom: About the only time I've ever seen it on a separate line is when I pprint forms that have been read in, but that is machine-generated. |
| 15:40 | noncom | heh :) |
| 15:40 | akurilin | it'd be cool if there was one guy out there who was the arbiter of good taste for many key languages |
| 15:41 | andyf_ | akurilin: There is. It is just so many people disagree with him and don't follow his good taste :-) |
| 15:41 | justin_smith | akurilin: this was traditionally the role of the Queen of England, but she has been slacking |
| 15:41 | akurilin | andyf_: I haven't followed any conversation regarding his guides, but I imagine anybody in that position would receive a lot of criticism. |
| 15:41 | coventry | akurilin: I can recommend the first few chapters, but that's all I've read. That much suffices for casual reading of haskell in CS papers. |
| 15:41 | akurilin | justin_smith: :D |
| 15:42 | akurilin | coventry: fair enough. Should suffice if I just want to be able to read it. |
| 15:43 | akurilin | Has haskell syntax changed much over the years or has it been stable for a while? |
| 15:43 | coventry | I'm sure you would benefit much more by reading the whole thing. |
| 15:45 | coventry | I only brought it up because of the bug-ugly bug with the high power-to-weight ratio on the cover. :-) |
| 15:46 | justin_smith | the syntax is pretty stable, it is basically a super sugarry ml |
| 15:48 | seangrove | coventry: Ah, clever. |
| 15:59 | akurilin | coventry: that was deep |
| 16:01 | amacdougall | Okay, I've been thinking "what's the simplest thing that could possibly work", and here's what I came up with: the test runner loads the full site with ?test-data=true in the querystring. Initial site bootstrap code detects this and sets a Var in the core namespace. Whenever I call data/GET (a simple AJAX wrapper), the function delegates to test-data/GET if necessary. Finally, test-data/GET compares the URL to a mapping of URL patterns to EDN files i |
| 16:01 | amacdougall | This still seems a lot more complicated than necessary. |
| 16:02 | amacdougall | Call it "the simplest thing I could think of that could possibly work." |
| 16:02 | amacdougall | And it involves adding test-specific code to the main app, which seems like it should be avoidable. |
| 16:03 | seangrove | amacdougall: You could probably just make some helpers in your test code runner and clojurescript.test |
| 16:03 | seangrove | (deftest ... (with-mocked-ajax ... (... webdriver-code ))) |
| 16:05 | seangrove | (with-mocked-ajax ...) relying on (with-redefs ...) under the hood. |
| 16:05 | seangrove | Hrm, now I'm wondering if with-redefs exists in cljs. Maybe not. |
| 16:07 | seangrove | Ah, the older days, before bbloom_ refused to use confluence and dnolen pretended to read the design docs https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/clojure/6cmnkHmHBNw |
| 16:07 | amacdougall | clojurescript.test seemed really hard to use for UI testing. Which makes sense. And if it's black-box functional testing, there's no reason not to just use a JS library. |
| 16:10 | amacdougall | At work, we're using the same library, but in a Rails environment. Thanks to the efforts of our test engineer, we're able to use Capybara to set up some fixtures, open the test runner HTML using Selenium, wait for results, close it all back down. |
| 16:10 | amacdougall | I just don't have the determination or the need to set up something that complex and automated. |
| 16:12 | noncom | how do i make concat here work at compile time? (this version does not work): |
| 16:12 | noncom | (defmacro z [f & args] `(println (apply ~f ~(concat [1] args)))) |
| 16:19 | coventry | noncom: What's wrong with a simple (defmacro z [f & args] `(println (~f 1 ~@args)))? |
| 16:20 | noncom | i think i just complicated it :) |
| 16:22 | amalloy | what's wrong with (defn z [f & args] (println (apply f 1 args)))? |
| 16:25 | coventry | amalloy: It doesn't teach you anything about how to use syntax quote. |
| 16:26 | noncom | i just want to make it execute at compile-time, not everytime during runtime. am i correct that this macro will help with this or not? |
| 16:27 | llasram | Nope. Totally wrong. |
| 16:27 | dsrx | .wea |
| 16:27 | dsrx | oops wrong window |
| 16:28 | bbloom_ | seangrove: heh |
| 16:28 | noncom | so apply is a function which means it has a runtime overhead? |
| 16:29 | noncom | doesn't apply have a runtime overhead? |
| 16:29 | noncom | not the whole function at compile time i mean, but just the application to the passed args |
| 16:30 | bbloom_ | seangrove: i now have a much much much better understanding of dynamic variables & bindings. i don't think that clojure can possibly get the "right" binding conveyance semantics w/o some way to take a "slice" of bindings up to a marked point in the stack (ie. effect handlers :-P) |
| 16:31 | raek | noncom: yes, but you can't use the macro in all circumstances where you could use the function (eg. you can't apply it or use it as a value) |
| 16:32 | raek | macros make code less composable |
| 16:32 | justin_smith | http://www.chrisstucchio.com/blog/2013/write_some_fucking_code.html an adolescent and foul-mouthed intro to monads |
| 16:33 | seangrove | justin_smith: There's also crockford's google talk, where he does it in javascript and makes a lot of strange references to male anatomy |
| 16:34 | justin_smith | "Monads are like a dildo factory, staffed by midgets" |
| 16:35 | raek | noncom: also, I reckon this particular extra step of indirection won't be the performance bottleneck of your application |
| 16:35 | seangrove | justin_smith: I guess that one does win on the strange-meter |
| 16:45 | devn | Is there a better way to write this? https://gist.github.com/devn/befc73863d0f6c4a6144 |
| 16:51 | kilex | I've given myself a toy problem to solve with core.logic: http://bit.ly/19q9V3Y. Any suggestions for improvement? |
| 17:02 | also | are there any good examples of the idiomatic use of ex-info? |
| 17:04 | noncom | devn: maybe something like (apply merge (mapv (fn [v ks] (reduce (fn [acc k] (assoc acc k v)) {} ks)) {your-map-here})) ? |
| 17:05 | also | I have some code that throws IllegalArgumentException, but I'd like it to work in ClojureScript |
| 17:05 | justin_smith | also: we have used something similar (but with the slingshot lib) in order to recover elegantly from template rendering errors with an informative message |
| 17:06 | noncom | at least something like that would definitely be better than using update-in in such a cae |
| 17:06 | noncom | s/cae/case |
| 17:07 | noncom | devn: oh, looks like i have incorrectly read your example. |
| 17:07 | noncom | so that's not a solution to your qustion |
| 17:09 | gdev | updating by hand a project that still uses a ton of contrib libraries is a pain |
| 17:09 | gdev | I feel like my computer is going to laugh at me tonight because I'm did all of its work |
| 17:10 | gdev | %s/I'm/I |
| 17:10 | devn | justin_smith: that guy is insane |
| 17:11 | coventry | justin_smith: LMAO |
| 17:17 | gdev | kilex, if it works, ship it |
| 17:23 | gdev | kilex, actually I'm confused why B1 and B2 have no relation or is it okay for them to come in any order? |
| 17:27 | kilex | gdev: that's the point, there's no constraint on their order. It works, but is awfully slow. There must be a better way (with core.logic that is). |
| 17:28 | kilex | Also, am interested to learn an idiomatic way to express (distinct) in core.logic |
| 17:30 | technomancy | also: use ex-info over IllegalArgumentException |
| 17:31 | also | yeah, that was the direction i was heading. i was just wondering if there was a usual way of doing that |
| 17:32 | llasram | also: The only potentially-non-obvious suggestion I'd have is not to stuff the info map with the kitchen sink. Printing the exception prints the map non-pretty-printed, which can be annoying to sift through if it contains too much |
| 17:34 | cYmen | I am trying to figure out 4clojure 121. My first two solutions have been branded evil because the used eval and ns-map. Do I have to create my own map from '+ to clojure.core/+ or is there some other way? |
| 17:36 | llasram | cYmen: I haven't looked at a problem, but building a map from keywords or symbols to functions for dispatch is a pretty pattern common |
| 17:36 | llasram | s,a problem,the problem, |
| 17:36 | llasram | Er, and "pattern common" / "common pattern" |
| 17:38 | cYmen | It is? |
| 17:38 | nkozo | there is a way to redirect all stdout to the nrepl repl buffer? |
| 17:38 | cYmen | Under what circumstances? |
| 17:40 | llasram | cYmen: Well, when you want to dispatch :-). I usually only see people fairly new to Clojure (and usually coming from Ruby) use `ns-map`, `resolve`, etc over manually constructing a map of specific allowed dispatch options |
| 17:40 | coventry | I hear it's better style to use multimethods than a dispatch map, but they're almost semantically equivalent in this case and you don't need to learn a new language feature at the same time you're doing this problem. |
| 17:42 | llasram | coventry: And I think it does depend on the problem. Definitely multimethods if the dispatch is open, or complex |
| 17:44 | cYmen | Hm...maybe I should jump at the chance to use multimethods... |
| 17:44 | coventry | I would do it with a dispatch map first and rewrite with multimethods once I had that down. |
| 17:45 | coventry | But multimethods aren't that much more to keep track of, I guess. |
| 17:56 | xpe | I'm looking for a way to run some code only when the :dev profile is active. My use case is enabling Enlive reloading. |
| 17:58 | xpe | I think I want :init or :init-ns |
| 17:59 | xpe | but those are only REPL options, best I can tell |
| 18:00 | coventry | xpe: I have {:user {:repl-options {:init (load-file "~/.lein/replrc.clj")}}} in my profiles.clj. You might try something like that, with s/:user/:dev/ |
| 18:00 | xpe | it looks like I have to setup a different entry point, just like Pedestal does with `run-dev` |
| 18:00 | xpe | coventry: thanks for that idea |
| 18:01 | xpe | for my use-case, I'll add my function calls into `run-dev` I think |
| 18:02 | justin_smith | (when (= (System/getenv "environment") "development") ...) is another way to do it |
| 18:03 | justin_smith | but then you have to set the key via env vars |
| 18:03 | xpe | justin_smith: also a good idea |
| 18:04 | xpe | having `(net.cgrand.reload/auto-reload *ns*)` in my production code seems silly. I'll bet others are also thinking about ways of pulling out reloading in production environments |
| 18:05 | xpe | While we're talking environment variables, I could also set a global. :( |
| 18:05 | justin_smith | well, yeah, but it has to come in from somewhere |
| 18:05 | justin_smith | in caribou we grab the "environment" from the env, and put it in a dynamically scope config |
| 18:06 | justin_smith | so you can bind it in the repl to do things with the prod db or whatever |
| 18:06 | justin_smith | without having to run a repl in prod |
| 18:07 | justin_smith | we make sure the root binding is the default env config, so threads all see the right config etc. but any part of the code that needs to can override it in a scoped way |
| 18:07 | noncom | why in clojure there is no in-line comment like /* */ in c or java (except for the (comment) macro which is different) ? |
| 18:08 | xpe | noncom: you can use ; |
| 18:09 | noncom | just at the end of the line. it makes everything after it a comment |
| 18:09 | justin_smith | #_ comments a whole form |
| 18:09 | xpe | or #_(whatever) |
| 18:09 | noncom | i know that in other lisps there is no such thing too.. but.. |
| 18:09 | noncom | #_ ??? wow! |
| 18:10 | justin_smith | #_ is very handy, it always comments out a balanced expression |
| 18:10 | xpe | noncom: I'm sure, I couldn't evaluate that. What did you saY? |
| 18:10 | justin_smith | lol |
| 18:10 | xpe | I mean "i'm sorry..." i blew that joke |
| 18:10 | noncom | :) |
| 18:11 | xpe | RuntimeException Invalid token: : |
| 18:11 | noncom | ; :) |
| 18:11 | xpe | RuntimeException Unmatched delimiter: ) |
| 18:11 | justin_smith | the only problem with #_ is how many clojure programmers don't know what it does |
| 18:11 | justin_smith | and emacs doesn't even highlight the form it precedes as commented |
| 18:11 | justin_smith | which is sad |
| 18:12 | justin_smith | I guess I could see if I can figure out how to fix it.... I've hacked elisp in the past |
| 18:12 | noncom | i think that its usefullness is so great that we should start a world-wide campaign with banners, parades and such to announce that it exists.. |
| 18:13 | xpe | justin_smith: emacs's parsing could be fixed, right? |
| 18:13 | noncom | emacs is lisp, so it never was broken |
| 18:13 | _Vi | How to write (doall (map ... shorter? Is there something like domap? |
| 18:13 | xpe | haha |
| 18:14 | noncom | _Vi: (mapv) ? |
| 18:14 | SegFaultAX | That gives different results. |
| 18:14 | noncom | it gives a vector |
| 18:14 | SegFaultAX | So it isn't the same. |
| 18:14 | noncom | (mapl) ? |
| 18:15 | SegFaultAX | _Vi: What's wrong with just calling doall? Are you sure you even need to do that? |
| 18:15 | _Vi | Unable to resolve symbol: mapl in this context |
| 18:15 | noncom | _Vi: sorry, that was a joke |
| 18:15 | _Vi | SegFaultAX, Typing more and closing more parentheses. |
| 18:15 | SegFaultAX | :/ |
| 18:15 | _Vi | "mapv" suits well. |
| 18:16 | coventry | What is the purpose of #! vs ';'? Just some vestigial thing? https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/LispReader.java#L108 |
| 18:17 | justin_smith | coventry: the unix kernel interprets that magically |
| 18:17 | justin_smith | #!java -jar clojure.jar ... |
| 18:17 | coventry | Oh, so you can make clojure scripts. Cool. |
| 18:19 | andyf | _Vi: You are welcome to define a domap yourself, of course. |
| 18:20 | justin_smith | if you already want to greedily do the whole map, what is the advantage of not doing mapv? |
| 18:20 | noncom | and be sure to make a pull request. but that's another joke :) |
| 18:20 | justin_smith | it's not like the datatype has some advantage |
| 18:21 | noncom | unless you are really working with lists like building clojure forms, but that's sorta exotic for (map) i guess.. |
| 18:21 | justin_smith | noncom: seq on a vector is cheap |
| 18:21 | andyf | noncom: Making pull requests against Clojure or contrib libraries is no laughing matter :-) |
| 18:22 | justin_smith | whereas arbitrary lookup on non-vector sequentials is expensive |
| 18:22 | SegFaultAX | andyf: I assume he meant against the github repo, in which case PRs are expressly declined. |
| 18:22 | llasram | Humor on the Internet: NP-hard |
| 18:22 | noncom | :D |
| 18:22 | andyf | uncomputable, I'd say |
| 18:23 | noncom | maybe core.logic can get it right, if given enough IRC logss |
| 18:23 | SegFaultAX | Hey girl, are you a travelling saleman because you make me NP-Hard. |
| 18:24 | noncom | haha |
| 18:24 | llasram | Yeah, the dec then inc karma cancel out |
| 18:24 | _Vi | Clojure's Github repository is arrogant one like linux.git and git.git and don't accept too-easy-to-do pull requests and issues? |
| 18:25 | SegFaultAX | I don't often write jokes on the spot, but when I do, I regret them immediately |
| 18:25 | CaptainLex | SegFaultAX: I liked it |
| 18:25 | noncom | yeah, joking is nice. i like feeling that someone was in a mood to joke, it makes me glad |
| 18:25 | coventry | L'esprit de let-me-show-you-the-way-out-thank-you-very-much |
| 18:26 | SegFaultAX | Ok, now I /have/ to tweet it. |
| 18:27 | CaptainLex | alt: you make me NP-complete |
| 18:28 | andyf | _VI: If you consider that to be arrogant, then yes, it is. I don't understand the value judgement you are making though. |
| 18:29 | SegFaultAX | _Vi: No, they don't accept PRs because all work is done via jira and you must have signed the CA. |
| 18:31 | _Vi | andyf, I've seen some recommendations to avoid using Github "pull request" feature regarding to Linux repository (along with some general criticism of the features). This gives feeling that "one cannot simply pull request to the Linux repo" and that Github pull requests are for lesser repositories. |
| 18:31 | SegFaultAX | irccloud sent me an invite. |
| 18:31 | SegFaultAX | 1.5 years after I applied. |
| 18:32 | gdev | _Vi, in the case of Clojure core it's just a matter of using a different workflow |
| 18:32 | andyf | _Vi: If some software project has a different process for submitting change requests besides pull requests on Github, then I think that is their choice. If you create a software project, you get to decide how you will accept requests for changes. Seems simple to me. |
| 18:32 | SegFaultAX | andyf: Well said. |
| 18:35 | coventry | It would be cool if there was a clojure-unstable like debian-unstable, pulling in patches more liberally than the clojure core team does. But no one seems to be interested in curating such a thing. |
| 18:37 | andyf | coventry: I considered it for a while, but it would be a big time sink, and most likely things would get added that were never put into Clojure itself. Effectively what you would have is a very similar but somewhat different programming language, incompatible in perhaps well-documented ways. |
| 18:37 | cYmen | I find it irritating that this doesn't work: (letfn [r [] 3] r) |
| 18:38 | cYmen | Could somebody offer some insight into what is going on? |
| 18:38 | coventry | andyf: Yeah, it would probably lead to some friction down the road. |
| 18:39 | justin_smith | ,(letfn [r ([] 3)] (r)) ; cYmen do you want this? |
| 18:39 | clojurebot | #<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: clojure.lang.Symbol> |
| 18:39 | coventry | cYmen: Have you seen the example at http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/letfn |
| 18:39 | justin_smith | err |
| 18:39 | amalloy | ,(letfn [(r [] 3)] (r)) |
| 18:39 | clojurebot | 3 |
| 18:40 | arrdem | ,(doc letfn) |
| 18:40 | clojurebot | "([fnspecs & body]); fnspec ==> (fname [params*] exprs) or (fname ([params*] exprs)+) Takes a vector of function specs and a body, and generates a set of bindings of functions to their names. All of the names are available in all of the definitions of the functions, as well as the body." |
| 18:41 | cYmen | One beer... well thanks for your help in finding my missing brackets guys... ;) |
| 18:42 | cYmen | oh parens actually...whatever |
| 18:46 | coventry | Is there a way to identify what threads are running and kill one of them, either from the repl or some kind of emacs nrepl thing short of the ritz debugger? |
| 18:49 | justin_smith | jvisualvm |
| 18:50 | justin_smith | ,(Thread/getAllStackTraces) |
| 18:50 | clojurebot | #<AccessControlException java.security.AccessControlException: access denied (java.lang.RuntimePermission getStackTrace)> |
| 18:51 | coventry | Thanks, Thread/getAllStackTraces looks like it would work. |
| 18:51 | justin_smith | it is a hash from thread handle to stacktrace |
| 18:51 | bitemyapp | akurilin: Haskell in general feels like alien technology at first. |
| 18:51 | justin_smith | so you could use that handle to kill it, if it has the stack trace that interests you, I think |
| 18:52 | coventry | justin_smith: Yeah, should be able to identify the thread from the stack trace. |
| 18:58 | justin_smith | also, depending on how the thread is started, you could store a reference to it for later |
| 18:59 | coventry | justin_smith: Yeah, this is more for development. My experimentation started a long-running thread which turned out to be a bit of a nuisance and I was wondering what tools there are for that kind of situation. |
| 19:06 | gdev | ugh i hate when i finally have the answer just to find out the person has left irc |
| 19:08 | justin_smith | which is why one should never leave irc |
| 19:08 | bitemyapp | gdev: I hate that too. |
| 19:08 | bitemyapp | justin_smith: leavers are a weird breed. |
| 19:08 | bitemyapp | hard to get much value from IRC unless you lurk. |
| 19:08 | bitemyapp | maybe they pay for their internet by the minute? |
| 19:09 | gdev | hrm, or maybe they finally ran out of the 1000 free hours of AOL |
| 19:09 | gdev | well good, now I can go back to working on my problem ^_^ |
| 19:09 | SegFaultAX | gdev: Heh, nice. |
| 19:12 | dsrx | what's a good way to test macros? test the output of macroexpand or macroexpand-1? |
| 19:12 | dsrx | probably the latter if anything |
| 19:13 | amalloy | dsrx: just test that they do the right thing when you use them. you shouldn't need to test that they expand to exactly what you expect |
| 19:13 | dsrx | hmm |
| 19:13 | amalloy | if you do, you tie yourself to an implementation strategy for no reason |
| 19:14 | dsrx | i see that you answered almost this exact question on SO earlier this year. makes sense, thanks : |
| 19:14 | dsrx | :) |
| 19:14 | amalloy | more than once a year, i'd wager |
| 19:18 | gdev | I'm working on an irc client that searches google and the channel history for the past three years before it shows a question in the channel. calling it bitemyChat |
| 19:22 | gdev | bitemyapp, that name isn't taken yet is it? |
| 19:24 | bitemyapp | gdev: not yet. |
| 19:28 | gdev | i think I'm abusing lein-ancient. instead of looking up the version of the libraries I want to use I just put "0.1.0" and then run lein-ancient |
| 19:30 | llasram | gdev: lein-ancient can lookup the most recent version of a lib you provide on the command-line |
| 19:31 | gdev | llasram, I know, but if i do lein ancient :interactive it will update the project file for me |
| 19:31 | llasram | Fair enough :-) |
| 19:32 | devn | `lein search conch` returns a version which is 0.6.0 |
| 19:32 | devn | `lein ancient` in a project including conch returns the latest is 0.5.1 |
| 19:33 | devn | Any idea why? |
| 19:35 | gdev | devn, did you try running ancient with :allow-all ? |
| 19:35 | devn | nosir |
| 19:35 | gdev | devn, what about with :aggressive ? |
| 19:35 | devn | same result with :allow-all |
| 19:35 | devn | aggressive found it |
| 19:36 | gdev | neato |
| 19:38 | gdev | llasram, whoops I meant `lein ancient upgrade` updates it for you, interactive just prompts you before doing so |
| 19:46 | dsrx | `lein ancient aliens` |
| 19:47 | devn | haha |
| 19:47 | devn | *sad face* OpenRefine won't load my dataset in the browser despite me upping the heap to 8GB |
| 19:48 | gdev | bitemyapp, now that c.j.j dropped the sql dsl, that's one less thing you have to test in blackwater =D |
| 19:49 | devn | methinks i need a 16GB machine if i want to run this on this dataset |
| 20:06 | zmansiv | hi, i wrote this code to construct a tree structure for a given directory http://pastebin.com/hT7pXnQm . since the jvm doesn't support tail call optimization, i get a StackOverflowError if i run this on a dir with lots of nested directories. how can i solve that problem? |
| 20:07 | zmansiv | i looked into loop/recur but couldn't come up with a way to use it here |
| 20:07 | amalloy | &(doc file-seq) |
| 20:07 | lazybot | ⇒ "([dir]); A tree seq on java.io.Files" |
| 20:08 | amalloy | or use tree-seq if you don't want actual File objects |
| 20:08 | amalloy | the point is to do it lazily |
| 20:09 | bitemyapp | gdev: I'm grateful for that. |
| 20:09 | bitemyapp | gdev: it makes the awkward relationship between c.j.j and Korma less awkward too. |
| 20:09 | zmansiv | amalloy doesn't file-seq return just a flat structure? |
| 20:11 | justin_smith | but you can use the paths to construct the tree |
| 20:11 | justin_smith | using assoc-in |
| 20:12 | justin_smith | or whatever tree constructor, if you don't want to use maps / records |
| 20:13 | amalloy | well, you're trying to build a tree of depth N, where each node is eagerly realized, all at once. that can't help but consume unlimited stack |
| 20:17 | zmansiv | right now my goal is to display a gui with a treeview that shows the directory and its contents |
| 20:18 | zmansiv | i was doing that by constructing the tree structure with the code i linked, and then recursively iterating over that and creating TreeItems |
| 20:18 | zmansiv | what would be a good way to achieve that? |
| 20:22 | deadghost | if I do a map in a map will the inner % have problems with the outer? |
| 20:22 | deadghost | or can I give it a name or something |
| 20:24 | aspotashev | deadghost: AFAIK you cannot make nested anonymous functions with the #() syntax |
| 20:25 | aspotashev | but you still can make an anonymous function by writing it in a full form: (fn [a b c] something) |
| 20:25 | aspotashev | so yes -- you have to give the arguments some names |
| 20:26 | bbloom_ | which is a good idea even if your #() isn't nested, but the % is visually far away |
| 20:37 | deadghost | http://pastebin.com/8rUCU952 |
| 20:37 | deadghost | not sure if I'm doing this right |
| 20:39 | _Vi | deadghost, % should be paired with #( |
| 20:40 | deadghost | it's a map inside a map |
| 20:40 | justin_smith | _Vi: also notice the unmatched paren, this is just an incomplete snippet |
| 20:40 | justin_smith | deadghost: it gets the individual values in the sequence % |
| 20:40 | aspotashev | #(map (fn [name] (insert-categories name business-id)) %) |
| 20:40 | justin_smith | use for instead of map inside map though |
| 20:40 | cljr | is there something similar to python's asyncore in clojure, or an easy way to do similar functionality? |
| 20:41 | _Vi | I think usually better to use #( ... % ...) for inner functions, and (fn[...]...) for outer ones. |
| 20:42 | justin_smith | ,(for [a (range 4) b (range a)] b) |
| 20:42 | clojurebot | (0 0 1 0 1 ...) |
| 20:42 | justin_smith | much easier than setting up nested maps |
| 20:44 | aspotashev | justin_smith: wow1 |
| 20:44 | aspotashev | *! |
| 20:45 | justin_smith | cljr: you can attach a future or agent to an input source, or manually run Thread objects - or do you really want to do explicit polling and dispatching, because it is possible, I just don't see the point |
| 20:46 | justin_smith | core.async is pretty cool for taking asynchronous tasks and writing them out the way you would normal code |
| 20:46 | justin_smith | cljr: but it could be I don't understand what feature you actually want from asyncore |
| 20:47 | cljr | justin_smith: yeah, I'm not positive mnyself, I think I need to do some more research.....thanks |
| 20:48 | justin_smith | cljr: there are a lot of options for async and thread based stuff in clojure, it is one of the things that distinguishes the language |
| 20:48 | justin_smith | that is a big part of why so many things are immutible - it makes threaded stuff so much nicer / simpler |
| 20:49 | cljr | right |
| 20:49 | cljr | ive done enough clojure programming to know that, but this specific area is new to me |
| 20:50 | cljr | i was looking at how Bitcoin clients work and one in particular seemed to handle messages over a socket async, hence my reference to that library anove, but im just trying to wrap my head around that |
| 20:51 | justin_smith | http://docs.python.org/2/library/asyncore.html the example client here looks a lot like a state machine. core.async takes normal looking code and makes a state machine, so that may be somewhere to start |
| 20:52 | cljr | k, thanks again |
| 21:01 | justin_smith | cljr: clojure version of 17.6.1, the asyncore HTTP client example (future (println (slurp "http://clojure.org"))) |
| 21:02 | musicalchair | some people here might like this. p2p webworkers: https://grimwire.net/ http://grimwire.com |
| 21:03 | cljr | justin_smith: https://github.com/jgarzik/pynode/blob/mini-node/node.py |
| 21:03 | cljr | justin_smith: not asking you to spend time looking at it, but it seems to create or connect to a socket, then just checks for reveieved messages on it and handles that asyncr |
| 21:08 | john2x | is there a fn that converts clojurescript datastructures into native javascript? e.g. PersistentVector -> JS Array |
| 21:08 | zmansiv | any way to get the value that would be set if you passed certain keys to assoc-in? |
| 21:09 | john2x | but handles other datastructures as well, automagically |
| 21:09 | zmansiv | i.e. using the "users" vector defined in the example at http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/assoc-in |
| 21:09 | justin_smith | zmansiv: you can run assoc in, and if you don't like the result, don't use it - it doesn't mutate the input |
| 21:09 | zmansiv | how can i see what the keys [1 :age] yield in that data struct? (should be 43) |
| 21:09 | justin_smith | there is get-in |
| 21:10 | zmansiv | oh awesome, thank you |
| 21:10 | justin_smith | ,(get-in {:a {:b {:c 42}}} [:a :b :c]) |
| 21:10 | clojurebot | 42 |
| 21:11 | zmansiv | perfect |
| 21:12 | justin_smith | cljr: depending on the intent, in clojure you would do what that node.py is doing with ring (an async web service lib that lets you define functions that massage the incoming data and generate responses), or core.async (if you wanted to work on the level of the logic of various events that take a variable amount of time) |
| 21:14 | cljr | justin_smith: ring isn't limited to just http? |
| 21:17 | rads | john2x: (clj->js [1 2 3]) |
| 21:18 | zmansiv | say i have this structure: { :value "1", :children ({ :value "2", :children () }) } |
| 21:18 | john2x | rads: thanks! |
| 21:18 | zmansiv | how could i get "2" ? i tried (get-in x [:children 0 :value]) but no dice |
| 21:19 | zmansiv | x being that structure above |
| 21:20 | zmansiv | it's the 0 that's not working, i guess that works on vectors but not lists. can i achieve that using a list or do i need to be using a vector? |
| 21:20 | dnolen | zmansiv: lists are not associative data structures that won't work |
| 21:21 | zmansiv | alrighty vector it is then |
| 21:22 | justin_smith | cljr: oh, it is limited to http I think, so it may not be as general as what you were thinking |
| 21:30 | justin_smith | cljr: random snippet from my own code that may be a bit closer to what you have in mind? https://www.refheap.com/21593 I define a thread that handles output from a shell process stdout, and returns functions to write to the process stdin or ask it to close |
| 21:40 | justin_smith | "symbols, whose values are looked up in the court of the LORD’s glory." |
| 21:40 | justin_smith | http://kingjamesprogramming.tumblr.com/ this site is funny |
| 21:40 | cljr | justin_smith: very cool, thanks |
| 21:56 | rads | "The global environment is chosen here, because this is the will of God." |
| 21:56 | justin_smith | AMEN |
| 21:56 | justin_smith | that whole blog is gold, he needs to update more |
| 21:58 | justin_smith | That quote places bitemyapp as the Satan, who tells you to forsake the global environment of our LORD in favor of explicit arguments and monads. |
| 22:10 | Raynes | bitemyapp is webscale. |
| 22:11 | seangrove | +1 explicite arguments with state monads |
| 22:12 | pragmatism | back |
| 22:18 | dnolen | comprehensive #js literal support in CLJS master, fixed behavior of #inst and #uuid to match Clojure's |
| 22:24 | mcblumperson | does the #js literal have the same effect as js->clj ? |
| 22:25 | bitemyapp | all of a sudden people like my milkshakes? |
| 22:26 | dsrx | here's a good project name, something that incorporates edn and garden, "eden" |
| 22:27 | seangrove | dsrx: Love it. A return to innocence and perfection. |
| 22:27 | seangrove | But could imply ignorance as well |
| 22:27 | rads | I've heard people say "eden" out loud when referring to edn so that could get a little confusing |
| 22:27 | ivan | mcblumperson: isn't it more like clj->js? |
| 22:29 | mcblumperson | right |
| 22:29 | mcblumperson | sorry, got my arrows crossed |
| 22:41 | egosum | Is there a good/easy/nice way to store arbitrary datastructures (e.g. a map with nested maps/lists within) in Datomic? |
| 22:41 | egosum | I'm reading "no" but I want to make sure… |
| 22:43 | nightfly | serialized to a string |
| 22:45 | cljr | im not familia enough with java libhraries, but from what I can te4ll BUfferedReader just let syou continue to read from a socket when yuou feel like it, but is there nothing that basically notifies you when there is a data on a socket to be read and uses your callback? |
| 22:45 | dnolen | mcblumperson: no it's just data literal syntax for JS objects / arrays |
| 22:45 | egosum | nightfly: Yeah :\ so, "no" |
| 22:45 | dnolen | mcblumperson: no conversions |
| 22:45 | gdev | egosum, yeah you could have db.type/string and then store values such as "[1 2 [4 5 6]]" |
| 22:46 | egosum | gdev: I suppose that is a reasonable way to do it, anyway. Could make a new type and apply a function to it in the transactor to read it, too, perhaps…? |
| 22:46 | egosum | Probably not necessary. |
| 22:47 | gdev | egosum, just curious what system you're building that would need to store nested collections |
| 22:48 | egosum | gdev: Storing representations of finite state machines |
| 22:48 | egosum | basically |
| 22:49 | justin_smith | egosum: there is always the conversion of an arbitrary graph to two key/value maps: one with the identities, and one describing connections between entities |
| 22:49 | justin_smith | you can even do arbitrary recursive relations you could not describe with nested structures |
| 22:50 | justin_smith | and for the non-recursive case it is straightforward to convert the two flat maps into a nested structure |
| 22:52 | igorw | I have a case of two sets that should be the same, yet my test suite says they're not |
| 22:52 | egosum | justin_smith: I'm not sure I entirely follow; could you say/point to more? |
| 22:52 | igorw | actual: (not (= #{0.0 4.0} #{0.0 4.0})) |
| 22:52 | igorw | any ideas or suggestions for debugging? |
| 22:54 | xpe | # (= #{0.4 0.0} #{0.0 04}) |
| 22:54 | xpe | I forget the bot's prefix |
| 22:55 | gdev | ,(= #{4. 0.0} #{0.0 4.0}) |
| 22:55 | clojurebot | true |
| 22:55 | xpe | igorw: testing locally, I get (= #{0.4 0.0} #{0.0 0.4}) ; true |
| 22:55 | gdev | works on this box |
| 22:55 | xpe | igorw: can you reduce your test and try in the REPL |
| 22:55 | igorw | yes, same when copying to the repl :-/ |
| 22:56 | xpe | machine type? java version? clojure version? |
| 22:56 | justin_smith | egosum: {:a 0 :b {:c 1}} -> {:entities {:a 0 :b {} :c 1} :edges {:b :c}} |
| 22:56 | igorw | but the value must be somehow different from what is dumped |
| 22:56 | justin_smith | all the information is present, it is in a flattened form |
| 22:56 | xpe | igorw: i'll bet it is a typo somewhere :) |
| 22:56 | justin_smith | also that can express recursive / circular nestings that cannot be expressed in a single literal |
| 22:57 | justin_smith | ie. if :c had :b in it |
| 22:57 | igorw | 64-bit jvm, java version 1.6.0_65, clojure 1.5.1 |
| 22:57 | xpe | igorw: yeah, I'll bet you have a typo somewhere :) |
| 22:57 | egosum | justin_smith: Ah, yes. Makes sense, thank you |
| 22:58 | justin_smith | in practice you would not use the keywords from the original structure - I did that for clarity, you would map a unique id to [k v] as a pair |
| 22:59 | igorw | xpe: well the thing I pasted is copied directly from the tests output |
| 22:59 | egosum | justin_smith: What about a list representation, though? |
| 22:59 | egosum | justin_smith: Er, that's unclear. Say :b's value was a list. |
| 22:59 | justin_smith | right |
| 22:59 | xpe | igorw: please make a gist of the test |
| 23:00 | xpe | I'll wager that the problem isn't with Clojure's set equality |
| 23:00 | justin_smith | egosum: there may be a standard way to do that, but the easiest way is to treat a list as a hash of indexes to values with some key indicating it should be treated as sequential |
| 23:02 | justin_smith | ie. [:a :b :c] -> {:type :seq 0 :a 1 :b 3 :c} |
| 23:02 | egosum | Right, makes sense. Have you been using datomic in production, out of curiosity? |
| 23:02 | justin_smith | I have not used it, I just know it is a keystore and I think graphs are awesome and I know how they map to keystores |
| 23:03 | justin_smith | well it isn't a keystore |
| 23:03 | justin_smith | but I know it can be used in that way |
| 23:03 | egosum | justin_smith: Fair enough :) Thanks! |
| 23:05 | gdev | justin_smith, its a datom store ;) |
| 23:06 | justin_smith | gdev: OK, someday I will know what a datom is I guess |
| 23:06 | gdev | justin_smith, [E A V Tx] |
| 23:08 | gdev | the other day I gave a presentation on avoiding jargon during speeches, then the next day I gave a presentation on Datomic...was so hard to follow my own advice |
| 23:08 | justin_smith | so on further reading, the datomic model is basically a graph (nodes with key/val + edges as I showed above) with an explicit time component |
| 23:08 | justin_smith | I think |
| 23:08 | justin_smith | gdev: lol |
| 23:08 | xpe | justin_smith: in case you want to learn more about diatoms http://westerndiatoms.colorado.edu/about/what_are_diatoms |
| 23:09 | justin_smith | ROFL |
| 23:09 | justin_smith | that extra i makes a big difference |
| 23:09 | xpe | they have special forms and history too |
| 23:09 | justin_smith | but they are not immutible |
| 23:09 | justin_smith | in fact they evolve via mutation |
| 23:10 | xpe | haha, so true |
| 23:10 | xpe | holy cow: It is estimated that 40% of the earth’s oxygen (02) is produced through the photosynthetic activities of diatoms. |
| 23:10 | justin_smith | LOL someone needs to do a creationist programming project in clojure (since we don't do mutation) |
| 23:10 | gdev | diatoms are web scale |
| 23:11 | gdev | justin_smith, yeah we'll call it "in the garden of edn" |
| 23:12 | justin_smith | but they have global scope (found everywhere) plus mutation, so they are bad |
| 23:12 | justin_smith | lol |
| 23:14 | igorw | xpe: one thing I noticed is that there is a negative zero involved in the calculation which might have some strange effects... |
| 23:14 | gdev | justin_smith, they're a legacy system so you just have to deal with it |
| 23:14 | xpe | gdev: going way back ^^^ it is only jargon if your audience doesn't understand it right? |
| 23:14 | john2x | how do I "explode" a vector to be passed as args in a fn? like foo(*args) in python. |
| 23:14 | igorw | trying to reduce the test case now |
| 23:14 | xpe | justin_smith (apply str [1 2 3]) |
| 23:14 | gdev | xpe, I don't think they did =/ |
| 23:14 | xpe | whoops that was for john2x |
| 23:15 | justin_smith | heh, np |
| 23:15 | arrdem | john2x: example input? but yes apply is probably the rigt fix |
| 23:15 | gdev | arrdem, don't you have a scala project to work on ;) |
| 23:15 | xpe | igorw: a negative zero? you've got problems then, haha |
| 23:15 | arrdem | gdev: it's done :D |
| 23:16 | arrdem | oh right I was gonna post code... |
| 23:16 | john2x | I'm trying (subs some-str [start end]).. so the first arg needs to be provided. |
| 23:16 | gdev | arrdem, good job |
| 23:16 | igorw | xpe: oh? can you elaborate? |
| 23:16 | xpe | ,-0 |
| 23:16 | clojurebot | 0 |
| 23:16 | justin_smith | the other half of that: (fn [& [a b c :as args]]) in order to get all args as a list you can use further |
| 23:16 | igorw | ,-0.0 |
| 23:16 | clojurebot | -0.0 |
| 23:16 | arrdem | gdev: https://github.com/arrdem/fractals |
| 23:16 | igorw | it's a float ;-) |
| 23:17 | arrdem | no README yet, but you can sbt run it just fine :P |
| 23:17 | xpe | ,(type 0.0) |
| 23:17 | clojurebot | java.lang.Double |
| 23:17 | xpe | ,(type -0.0) |
| 23:17 | clojurebot | java.lang.Double |
| 23:17 | justin_smith | ,(= -0.0 +0.0) |
| 23:17 | clojurebot | true |
| 23:18 | gdev | arrdem, turles all the way down |
| 23:18 | gdev | *turles |
| 23:18 | arrdem | gdev: that was the design intent :D |
| 23:19 | gdev | arrdem, now you can rewrite it in clojure, just use a map ;D |
| 23:19 | justin_smith | ,(applyu subs "hello" [1 4]) ; john2x |
| 23:19 | clojurebot | #<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: applyu in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)> |
| 23:19 | justin_smith | ,(apply subs "hello" [1 4]) ; john2x |
| 23:19 | clojurebot | "ell" |
| 23:19 | arrdem | gdev: I benchmarked the L system expansion in Clojure vs in Scala and Clojure won by a factor of 4 :P |
| 23:19 | john2x | ooh nice. thanks |
| 23:19 | arrdem | gdev: no clojure port will be forthcomming tho.. too many other projects |
| 23:20 | gdev | arrdem, cool, anything fun? |
| 23:21 | arrdem | gdev: I got the go ahead to help finish clojure in clojure as my graduation project... I've got a stack of JVM books on the way for my Christmass relaxation reading as a result |
| 23:21 | arrdem | never did finish cloutjure tho... |
| 23:22 | justin_smith | arrdem: that is awesome, great news |
| 23:22 | gdev | lol yeah we didn't get far enough to have anything to continue |
| 23:22 | gdev | arrdem, now I know what I'm getting you for christmas =D |
| 23:24 | arrdem | gdev: hehe I played for a couple days with neo4j and ultimately did get something reasonable working, I just realized that the graph construction issues were more complex than I could fathom without a partner :/ |
| 23:24 | arrdem | so the whole |
| 23:24 | arrdem | "social graph" thing kinda killed it |
| 23:27 | gdev | arrdem, yeah I tried modeling it in Datomic, but I didn't have the data you had scraped so I wasn't sure what all we were capturing |
| 23:29 | arrdem | gdev: :/ yeah. sometime when you can get away we should get together and take a second stab at that... in fairness tho our toolset & codebase coordination was essentially no-existant :P |
| 23:29 | arrdem | next year'll be better if clojurecup runs again |
| 23:30 | gdev | arrdem, yeah next year lets just do a windjammers clone in clojurescript |
| 23:30 | arrdem | gdev: hahaha that'd be awesome. |
| 23:32 | gdev | my latest project is doing 8bit clones with Quil and Overtone. but everyone is migrating to the browsers |
| 23:32 | justin_smith | I want to model something in blender this weekend that I can print with the 3d printer at work |
| 23:33 | justin_smith | bonus points for an idea that lets me use clojure to help generate the structure |
| 23:34 | arrdem | justin_smith: 3d serpinsky triangle |
| 23:34 | justin_smith | https://github.com/krumholt/penumbra-blender-exporter I found this |
| 23:34 | arrdem | justin_smith: trivial to compute, uses turtles in 3D!!!11!1 |
| 23:34 | justin_smith | I can thus make a shape, export to edn, fuck with it, then export to blender |
| 23:34 | justin_smith | arrdem: awesome idea |
| 23:36 | gdev | justin_smith, lol 4 year repo, good luck with that |
| 23:37 | justin_smith | it's just a python script that turns blender format into edn |
| 23:37 | justin_smith | so it shouldn't be too bad? worth a try |
| 23:37 | arrdem | what could possibly go wrong... |
| 23:37 | gdev | oh, sorry I'm just burned because I've been trying to get penumbra up to date for a couple days now |
| 23:39 | justin_smith | oh, I am unaware of the larger project |
| 23:39 | arrdem | clojurebot: turtle |is| http://www.rockpapercynic.com/strips/2011-11-25.jpg |
| 23:39 | clojurebot | 'Sea, mhuise. |
| 23:42 | gdev | justin_smith, yeah, and its not under active development |
| 23:43 | arrdem | gdev: do you remember who got the domain name? |
| 23:43 | gdev | arrdem, no idea |
| 23:44 | arrdem | oh. it was James. |
| 23:47 | igorw | ,(= #{0.0 4.0} #{0.0 (Float/valueOf "4.000")}) |
| 23:48 | clojurebot | false |
| 23:48 | igorw | ,(= #{4.0} #{(Float/valueOf "4.000")}) |
| 23:48 | clojurebot | true |
| 23:48 | arrdem | gdev: I figured out what I've been doing wrong... I've been trying to munge multiple datasources into a single graph. Split it out into a single representation per service and suddenly everything falls into place. |
| 23:48 | igorw | anyone want to explain that one to me? :) |
| 23:49 | igorw | xpe: ^ |
| 23:49 | arrdem | igorw: you're comparing the set #{0.0 4.0} with the set #{4.0} |
| 23:49 | arrdem | igorw: that should fail |
| 23:49 | arrdem | oh wait. |
| 23:49 | arrdem | what? |
| 23:49 | clojurebot | what is http://gist.github.com/306174 |
| 23:49 | arrdem | clojurebot: go away |
| 23:49 | clojurebot | Gabh mo leithscéal? |
| 23:49 | arrdem | ~botsmack |
| 23:49 | clojurebot | Owww! |
| 23:51 | igorw | so, is it a bug? I have no clue how to debug this |
| 23:52 | arrdem | igorw: not sure... whatever's going on here sure isn't obvious. |
| 23:53 | justin_smith | ,,(= #{0.0 4.0} #{0.0 (Double/valueOf "4.000")}) |
| 23:53 | clojurebot | true |
| 23:53 | justin_smith | 0.0 as a literal is a double |
| 23:53 | justin_smith | now why it is not doing the implicit numberic equality in sets is another question |
| 23:53 | gdev | ,(class 0.0) |
| 23:53 | clojurebot | java.lang.Double |
| 23:54 | xpe | igorw: that's pretty cool |
| 23:54 | xpe | nicely done |
| 23:55 | igorw | justin_smith: ah nice, thanks! |
| 23:55 | justin_smith | much simpler: |
| 23:55 | justin_smith | ,(= #{4.0} #{4}) |
| 23:55 | clojurebot | false |
| 23:55 | justin_smith | ,(= 4 4.0) |
| 23:55 | clojurebot | false |
| 23:56 | xpe | ,(hash 4.0) |
| 23:56 | clojurebot | 1074790400 |
| 23:56 | xpe | ,(hash (Float/valueOf "4.0")) |
| 23:56 | clojurebot | 1082130432 |
| 23:56 | xpe | right? |
| 23:57 | arrdem | xpe: Double/ |
| 23:57 | arrdem | oh. |
| 23:57 | arrdem | (inc xpe) |
| 23:57 | lazybot | ⇒ 1 |
| 23:57 | xpe | igorw ^ |
| 23:57 | arrdem | igorw: this... |
| 23:57 | arrdem | ,(= #{0.0 (Double/valueOf "4.0")} #{0.0 4.0}) |
| 23:57 | clojurebot | true |
| 23:57 | justin_smith | ,(every? #(apply == %) (map list #{4} #{4.0})) |
| 23:57 | clojurebot | true |
| 23:58 | justin_smith | if you have nothing but numerics in your sets, that should suffice |
| 23:58 | arrdem | igorw: Double and Long are the standard numeric literal types in Clojure |
| 23:58 | justin_smith | ,(every? #(apply == %) (map list (sort #{3 4}) (sort #{3.0 4.0}))) |
| 23:58 | clojurebot | true |
| 23:59 | igorw | confusing part is that the sets behave differently when they contain mixed types |
| 23:59 | justin_smith | igorw: notice my ammendment to call sort above |
| 23:59 | gdev | convert them all to string |
| 23:59 | justin_smith | because sets are not ordered |
| 23:59 | justin_smith | gdev: my above works if the sets are strictly numeric |
| 23:59 | gdev | justin_smith, converting them to string makes everything just work |
