#clojure – 2013-10-08

2013-10-08

00:07	logic_prog	is cursive clojure open source ?
00:08	coventry	logic_prog: No. http://cursiveclojure.com/eap.html
00:08	logic_prog	coventry: nice, thanks!
00:10	TEttinger	coventry, gfredericks, be careful with getInstanceFields. ##(let [gimme (fn [item] (map #(clojure.lang.Reflector/getInstanceField item %) (map (memfn getName) (.getFields (class item)))))] (gimme {:a 1}))
00:10	lazybot	java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! class clojure.lang.Reflector is bad!
00:10	TEttinger	well oh well.
00:10	TEttinger	it errors with cannot find a static field
00:10	TEttinger	IllegalArgumentException No matching field found: EMPTY for class clojure.lang.PersistentArrayMap clojure.lang.Reflector.getInstanceField (Reflector.java:271)
00:12	coventry	TEttinger: Thanks for the warning.
00:15	TEttinger	hm, .getFields seems to not return very many fields
00:16	TEttinger	,(count (.getFields (class (java.util.HashMap.))))
00:16	clojurebot	0
00:21	TEttinger	oh man...
00:22	TEttinger	it's only finding static public fields, because private fields have setters/getters
00:22	TEttinger	at least for java code
00:26	amalloy	,(count (.getDeclaredFields java.util.HashMap))
00:26	clojurebot	10
00:27	amalloy	TEttinger: (class (Foo.)) is silly in like all cases - just write Foo
00:27	TEttinger	item is an argument?
00:27	TEttinger	oh
00:27	TEttinger	I took that later bit from earlier code
00:28	TEttinger	amalloy, but won't declared fields not include inherited ones?
00:29	amalloy	right. you have to walk up the inheritance tree for those, since they're not in .getFields or in .getDeclaredFields
00:31	crocket	How does clojure provide modularity?
00:32	egghead	functions, maps, protocols, namespaces
00:32	crocket	egghead, many languages provide that already.
00:33	crocket	I'm talking about OSGi's advanced modularity system.
00:38	egghead	crocket: anything in particular or just want to use the osgi classloader
00:38	crocket	egghead, Do clojure people plan to improve modularity to the level of OSGi?
00:39	crocket	clojure has already got out of JVM(ClojureScript).
00:39	crocket	I think clojure needs its own modularity
00:39	egghead	you'd have to be a little more clear about what you mean by modularity, I think
00:39	egghead	if you mean 'standalone units of abstraction which can be composed with other abstract units' then ya it does that quite well
00:40	crocket	multiple versions of the same library should be easy to handle
00:40	crocket	Each module needs to have a clear boundary.
00:40	crocket	OSGi provides service layer.
00:40	egghead	you're talking about package management then?
00:40	crocket	It's clear that modules have versions.
00:40	crocket	It's modularity.
00:43	crocket	egghead, How does clojure deal with multiple versions of the same lib?
01:08	wei_	is there a good thumbnail generation library?
01:08	EchoBot1	Echo: is there a good thumbnail generation library?
01:08	mtp	it's a little gauche to test "bots in a language" in the language's channel
01:08	EchoBot1	Echo: it's a little gauche to test "bots in a language" in the language's channel
01:09	mtp	especially when they're bots like that
01:09	EchoBot1	Echo: especially when they're bots like that
01:16	TEttinger	`msg EchoBot1 die
01:16	EchoBot1	Echo: `msg EchoBot1 die
01:16	logic_prog	is there a way to tell speedbar (maybe etags?) to show clojure functions defined with "defn" but not clojure functions defined with "defn-" ?
01:16	EchoBot1	Echo: is there a way to tell speedbar (maybe etags?) to show clojure functions defined with "defn" but not clojure functions defined with "defn-" ?
01:16	EchoBot1	Echo: die
01:17	EchoBot1	Echo: die
01:17	TEttinger	technomancy, ops, kban?
01:17	EchoBot1	Echo: technomancy, ops, kban?
01:18	Apage43	what a heinous piece of software
01:18	EchoBot1	Echo: what a heinous piece of software
01:19	indigo	Wow, first time I've seen this kind of crap
01:19	EchoBot1	Echo: Wow, first time I've seen this kind of crap
01:19	TEttinger	everyone, /ignore ?
01:19	EchoBot1	Echo: everyone, /ignore ?
01:23	dcunit3d	wei_: you could try using java.awt.BufferedImage
01:23	EchoBot1	Echo: wei_: you could try using java.awt.BufferedImage
01:24	wei_	looking at it now, thanks dcunit3d
01:24	EchoBot1	Echo: looking at it now, thanks dcunit3d
01:25	jonasen	dnolen: ping
01:25	EchoBot1	Echo: dnolen: ping
01:25	dnolen	jonasen: pong
01:25	EchoBot1	Echo: jonasen: pong
01:25	dcunit3d	wei_: there is also this library https://github.com/mikera/imagez
01:25	EchoBot1	Echo: wei_: there is also this library https://github.com/mikera/imagez
01:26	wei_	wow, fairly recent. looks good.
01:26	EchoBot1	Echo: wow, fairly recent. looks good.
01:27	wei_	I think we need a second Echobot in here ;)
01:27	EchoBot1	Echo: I think we need a second Echobot in here ;)
01:28	seangrov`	wei_: Just a simple /ignore ;)
01:28	EchoBot1	Echo: wei_: Just a simple /ignore ;)
01:29	nightfly	/part
01:29	EchoBot1	Echo: /part
01:29	logic_prog	how is clojure-mode talking to speedbar ?
01:29	EchoBot1	Echo: how is clojure-mode talking to speedbar ?
01:29	logic_prog	is it using etags, or iemnu?
01:29	EchoBot1	Echo: is it using etags, or iemnu?
01:29	logic_prog	how is clojure-mode providing the tags ?
01:29	EchoBot1	Echo: how is clojure-mode providing the tags ?
01:29	logic_prog	just ignored Echobot1.
01:29	EchoBot1	Echo: just ignored Echobot1.
01:30	logic_prog	testing again
01:30	EchoBot1	Echo: testing again
01:30	dnolen	jonasen: applied to master
01:30	EchoBot1	Echo: jonasen: applied to master
01:41	jonasen	dnolen: thanks
01:41	dnolen	jonasen: np
01:42	dcunit3d	does the other bot have echobot ignored lol
01:44	TEttinger	did someone kick echobot1?
01:45	TEttinger	nope, I think he's logic_prog's
01:47	crocket	hey
01:48	TEttinger	crocket: ?
01:48	crocket	How does clojure handle multiple versions of the same lib?
01:49	TEttinger	there's an option in lein to warn or abort on it, I'm not sure if you mean transitive deps or what
01:49	crocket	TEttinger, OSGi allows devs to deploy multiple versions of the same lib.
01:49	crocket	module loading
01:50	crocket	Multiple versions of a library can be loaded on the runtime.
01:51	TEttinger	http://bit.ly/clojureosgi <-- crocket
01:52	crocket	TEttinger, what about clojure outside JVM?
01:52	crocket	Is there a clojure specific way?
01:52	TEttinger	eh?
01:52	TEttinger	you mean clojurescript, or other java VMs?
01:53	crocket	TEttinger, clojurescript and clojure on .NET
01:53	TEttinger	those have osgi?
01:53	crocket	no
01:53	seangrov`	crocket: There isn't a universal way, no. Clojure lets the host details show through a lot more than that.
01:53	TEttinger	https://github.com/aav/clojure.osgi here are some examples
01:53	crocket	So clojure needs its own modularity.
01:55	seangrov`	crocket: Heh, before we get there, we need some way to write cross-runtime libraries ;)
01:55	seangrov`	This has been discussed on the ml before though
01:55	TEttinger	cljx is the main proposal I think
01:55	crocket	seanaway, cross-runtime?
01:55	seangrov`	TEttinger: yeah, more or less feature expressions
01:55	TEttinger	clojure and clojurescript are subtly different
01:56	crocket	Although cross-runtime modularity is good, I had multiple versions of a library in mind.
01:56	TEttinger	and any usage of the host language is incompatible with other host languages
01:56	TEttinger	yeah, I think it's possible.
01:56	crocket	TEttinger, with what?
01:57	TEttinger	maybe not yet, but since lein uses maven, if maven can do it...
01:57	crocket	Does clojure have a tool to load multiple versions of a library on the same JVM?
01:57	crocket	maven is just a build tool
01:57	TEttinger	I think the issue is the same stuff on one classpath
01:57	crocket	It doesn't help you with modularity.
02:06	z15tea	I like prismatic's plumbing. Not what you are looking for though
02:22	seangrov`	crocket: I believe this has been discussed on the ml before and isn't really possible in bigger apps
02:22	crocket	seanaway, ???
02:22	lazybot	crocket: How could that be wrong?
02:23	crocket	seangrov`, Can you elaborate about it?
02:23	seangrov`	crocket: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/clojure/WuS31RSiz_A
02:57	TEttinger	crocket, you saw https://github.com/Seajure/metaverse right?
02:57	crocket	Seajure?
02:57	TEttinger	seattle clojure group
02:57	crocket	well
02:57	TEttinger	it was linked in that long ML exchange
02:58	TEttinger	well, metaverse was
02:58	TEttinger	this is the newer version by a bit
02:58	TEttinger	it's not a standard, but you can do it in pure clojure
02:59	TEttinger	once libs start importing java or groovy or jruby or whatever, sane versioning goes out the window :)
03:00	Raynes	TEttinger: Metaverse is wild.
03:16	gravenimage	quit
03:16	gravenimage	quit
03:56	crocket	yo
04:00	andyfingerhut	Awake, but perhaps not fully alert
04:59	logic_prog	is the dumbass echo bot gone yet?
04:59	logic_prog	good :-)
05:00	echo-are`	If a macro expands into a def expression, and I want to add meta data to the defined var, do I have to use an extra expression to add it? 'cause (def ^:meta-data ...) in the defmacro seems not functioning
05:02	borkdude	is there a way in a for to generate two elements instead of one
05:02	borkdude	like (for [i [1 2 3]] [i (inc i)]) and not have to 'flatten' the end result
05:02	borkdude	(probably not, but can't hurt to ask)
05:03	amalloy	echo-are`: `(def ^:foo bar) uses the typehint at macroexpansion time, rather than putting it on the code it outputs
05:03	amalloy	(and of course at macroexpansion time it's totally useless)
05:03	amalloy	you want `(def ~(vary-meta bar assoc :meta-whatever true))
05:04	amalloy	borkdude: you can apply concat around the for, or add a second clause to the for iteration list
05:04	echo-are`	amalloy: Got it, thanks
05:04	amalloy	&(for [i [1 2 3], x [i (inc i)]] x)
05:04	lazybot	⇒ (1 2 2 3 3 4)
05:04	borkdude	amalloy ah
05:06	borkdude	amalloy in my actual production code I would need apply concat, I was afraid so ;)
05:06	amalloy	borkdude: nonsense. you can write any apply-concat as another step in the for
05:06	borkdude	amalloy ok, I'm generating two datoms in the for
05:07	amalloy	(apply concat (for [x xs] (f x))) => (for [x xs, y (f x)] y)
05:07	borkdude	amalloy what if the second thing isn't related to the first thing
05:07	amalloy	uh...so? what i just wrote is true for all f
05:08	borkdude	as always, you are right and it saved me the apply concat :-) #needmorecoffee
05:19	rurumate_	is there a clojure client for levelDB yet?
05:21	mpenet	rurumate_: yes clj-leveldb I think from factual
05:24	harja	Do you guys have any good decision procedure on when to use a function vs. a macro?
05:25	rurumate_	mpenet: thanks
05:25	llasram	harja: Write a function unless you really can't.
05:27	harja	llasram: Sounds reasonable. But the problem is that I'm seeing application for macros everywhere, like just expanding stuff in place to generate behaviors. But it's not clearly a good thing. It's just that when people get a hammer they seem to be searching for nails everywhere, and this is how I feel now :)
05:27	echo-are`	harja: There is a book On Lisp by Paul Graham for this topic, though that book is not for Clojure
05:28	llasram	harja: I think most people go through that when first exposed to macros :-)
05:29	llasram	harja: What do you mean in particular by "expanding stuff in place to generate behaviors"?
05:29	harja	echo-are`: Thanks, I'm familiar with it. Haven't read it all the way through though. Do you happen to have page numbers I should refer to? :)
05:29	llasram	I certainly went through a phase of writing far more macros than necessary...
05:29	echo-are`	harja: Chapter 8, When to Use Macros might help
05:29	llasram	Eh
05:30	harja	llasram: For example, I made an interface for accessing the entities in my system. I decided that the implementation should be Korma, but could be altered if I want to. All of the calls to the interface are macros that get expanded to Korma-queries
05:31	harja	echo-are`: :) Thanks!
05:32	llasram	harja: How is it different than if the interface had been functions?
05:32	harja	llasram: https://www.refheap.com/282c285b56daef57a500ff798
05:33	harja	llasram: Exactly :)
05:33	echo-are`	harja: But Clojure's more focus on simplicity through decomposition subtly differs from CL's philosophy, do keep that in mind
05:34	harja	echo-are`: Good point. Thanks.
05:35	llasram	Ok, yeah. In my opinion those should definitely just be functions. You lose a lot of composability when you make something a macro
05:36	harja	llasram: Yeah. This is what I also discovered. So basically your simple advice should be at least good approximation on the "correct" answer :)
05:36	andyfingerhut	amalloy: Are latest versions of useful lib released as jars anywhere? I didn't see them on Clojars
05:37	amalloy	andyfingerhut: https://clojars.org/org.flatland/useful looks like the latest to me
05:37	harja	Thanks for the input guys!
05:37	llasram	harja: np!
05:38	andyfingerhut	amalloy: doh! I wasn't looking hard enough. Thanks.
05:38	harja	Macros are just such a powerful tool for a newbie like me that just drank the kool-aid :)
05:39	pavelpenev	harja: I've been away from clojure for quite a while(I mostly hack on CL in my spare time now) but from what I can tell, lispers avoid macros if they can help it, and clojurians do so even more(favoring FP).
05:41	pavelpenev	I've written 3 or 4 useful macros for 4 years of usage of various dialects, but I've used many libraries that use them to good effect. Maybe examine existing code? Ask why should it this be a macro etc.
05:41	pavelpenev	harja: ^
05:57	rurumate_	I write a with-x macro for every Closeable x, at least
06:01	rurumate_	like this: https://www.refheap.com/19523
06:04	opqdonut	why not just use with-open?
06:05	sm0ke	,(= ::a :user/a); why is this false?
06:05	clojurebot	false
06:05	sm0ke	,::a
06:05	clojurebot	:sandbox/a
06:05	sm0ke	,(= ::a :sandbox/a); why is this false?
06:05	clojurebot	true
06:05	sm0ke	oh
06:06	opqdonut	,::a
06:06	clojurebot	:sandbox/a
06:06	opqdonut	yep
06:06	sm0ke	is :: a special form?
06:06	opqdonut	yeah, kinda, it's part of the keyword syntax
06:06	llasram	It's reader syntax
06:06	sm0ke	what is it used for?
06:06	opqdonut	private symbols, basically
06:06	Jarda	namespaced keywords?
06:07	opqdonut	for example if you have a queue for things and you want to have a marker in there
06:07	opqdonut	you can use ::marker to be extra sure someone doesn't accidentally insert a marker
06:08	sm0ke	ok so i understand it just prefixes the keyword with current namespace
06:08	opqdonut	yep
06:08	sm0ke	thanks
06:09	ordnungswidrig	opqdonut: you can also use (Object.) for marker objects. The instance is guaranteed to be unique :)
06:14	opqdonut	ordnungswidrig: yeah, that's the java way, and it is more reliable
06:18	rurumate_	opqdonut: if it's closeable, yes
06:23	sm0ke	why the following ##(do (identical? (String. "a") (String. "a")) (identical? "aa" "aa"))
06:23	lazybot	⇒ true
06:23	sm0ke	what the
06:24	sm0ke	,(identical? (String. "a") (String. "a"))
06:24	clojurebot	false
06:24	sm0ke	oh ok do returns last expression i see
06:24	sm0ke	isnt "aa" and (String. "aa") the same thing?
06:25	llasram	sm0ke: They have value identity, but not object identity
06:26	llasram	##(let [a1 (String. "aa"), a2 (String. "aa")] [(= a1 a2) (identical? a1 a2)])
06:26	lazybot	⇒ [true false]
06:26	sm0ke	llasram: yes but why ##(identical? "aa" "aa")
06:26	lazybot	⇒ true
06:26	llasram	sm0ke: Because string constants are interned and do have object identity
06:29	CommandBot	Greetings! Send me a PM and I'll echo it back to you. If it contains the word 'die', I'll die as a bonus!
06:29	sm0ke	llasram: got it thanks
07:42	Jarda	can I redefine a library method?
07:42	Jarda	(or a function)
07:43	Jarda	should (defn foo/bar ...) work?
07:54	llasram	Jarda: For testing?
07:54	Jarda	llasram: no, I'm tryin to use https://github.com/seancorfield/clj-soap and need to infer a bit with the logic
07:55	llasram	Ok. Then I'd use https://github.com/technomancy/robert-hooke
07:55	harja	pavelpenev: Thanks! That sounds like a good and solid approach to follow.
07:56	Jarda	llasram: ok thanks
07:57	harja	Oh hi Jarda, do you guys use Clojure too nowadays?
07:57	Jarda	harja: hi! Nope, not working for Ecom anymore. More like a freelancer nowadays :)
07:58	harja	Jarda: Yeah, heard that you left. Did you go working for a startup?
07:59	Jarda	harja: well I do a lot of javascript coding for Flowplayer atm, but also working on own projects on the side
07:59	harja	Cool
08:12	ThePawnBreak	hello! I'm a clojure newbie; I'm trying to use the Raynes fs library; I added it to project.clj but I don't know how to import it; how do I know what argument to pass to the use function? thanks
08:13	ThePawnBreak	I tried (use 'me.raynes/fs) but it doesn't seem to work
08:13	solussd	you can use the ns macro to load it:
08:13	turbopape	maybe running lein deps ?
08:13	ThePawnBreak	lein downloaded it, I just don't know what its 'correct' name is
08:13	solussd	(use 'me.raynes.fs)
08:14	turbopape	ok, so it is a ns problem, as pointed by solussd
08:14	ThePawnBreak	thanks solussd ; it worked
08:14	ThePawnBreak	still, where could I have found that name? "me.raynes.fs"
08:15	solussd	ThePawnBreak: look at line 1 here: https://github.com/Raynes/fs/blob/master/src/me/raynes/fs.clj#L1
08:16	ThePawnBreak	thank you :)
08:16	solussd	documentation or source code, really. the group and package name for it dont necessarily correspond to the namespaces
08:16	solussd	np
08:18	solussd	I'm assuming you're playing with it using a repl. When you want to use it in a dource file, use the ns macro. E.g. at the top of the file: (ns (:require [raynes.me.fs :as fs])) and then you can use functions from it like this: (fs/expand-home "somearg")
08:18	solussd	*source
08:20	ThePawnBreak	is anything wrong with simply using it using "use"?
08:21	turbopape	use = require + ref, no ?
08:21	ThePawnBreak	I'm not sure I understand what you
08:21	ThePawnBreak	you're asking
08:26	llasram	`use` is `require` + `refer`
08:27	Zerker_	Hello
08:27	llasram	The problem with `use` is that w/o `:only` you have no control over the symbol pulled into your namespace. And with `:only` it's identical to `require` with `:refer`. So if we all just `require`, the world becomes simpler :-)
08:27	solussd	use 'refers' the symbols into your current namespace. It is usually frowned upon, bc it pollutes your current namespace with all the symbols from another
08:27	Zerker_	Would anyone be willing to give me ten minutes of their time for an informal interview? CS student, paper due in 9 hours, you know how it is ^-^
08:29	solussd	its nice to know where your functions are. Using require, like in my example above, you can give a namespace a "nickname", e.g. [raynes.me.fs :as fs]. Then, all of Raynes' fs stuff can be accessed under fs/
08:29	solussd	Zerker_: in 2 hours, sure
08:37	ThePawnBreak	solussd: is this how I should import clojure.string? (ns (:require [clojure.string :as st]))
08:37	solussd	yup
08:37	ThePawnBreak	it doesn't seem to work: (ns (:require [clojure.string :as st]))
08:37	ThePawnBreak	ClassCastException clojure.lang.PersistentList cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Symbol clojure.lang.RT$1.invoke (RT.java:237)
08:37	solussd	oh
08:38	solussd	you need to specify the namespace
08:38	solussd	as the first arg to ns
08:38	solussd	e.g., (ns my.stuff (:require [clojure.string :as st]))
08:38	solussd	which would go at the top of a file at src/my/stuff.clj
08:41	ThePawnBreak	now I have this at the top
08:41	ThePawnBreak	(ns core (:require [clojure.string :as st]))
08:41	ThePawnBreak	(ns core (:require [me.raynes.fs :as fs]))
08:41	ThePawnBreak	but:
08:41	ThePawnBreak	(ns core (:require [clojure.string :as st]))
08:41	ThePawnBreak	(ns core (:require [me.raynes.fs :as fs]))
08:41	ThePawnBreak	core=> fs.absolute-path
08:41	ThePawnBreak	CompilerException java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: fs.absolute-path, compiling:(/tmp/form-init2759071537655607159.clj:1:882
08:43	solussd	oh, combine those, also the name of your project should be the first component in the namespace: (ns myprojectname.core (:require [clojure.string :as st] [raynes.me.fs :as fs]))
08:43	solussd	*me.raynes
08:44	ThePawnBreak	is there any way to "restart" a REPL?
08:44	ThePawnBreak	to a clean state
08:45	ThePawnBreak	besides closing it and opening another
08:45	solussd	well, you could remove all the things aliased into it, but it's easier to just switch to a new namespace
08:46	solussd	try: (ns my-new-namespace)
08:46	solussd	your prompt will change and you'll have a "clean" repl/namespace
08:48	solussd	also, accessing functions in a namespace is always done with a forward slash, e.g. me.raynes.fs/absolute-path
08:49	ThePawnBreak	everything works now; thanks again, you've been very helpful
08:49	solussd	no problem, anytime
09:19	pepijndevos	I'm having math problems :(
09:20	mdrogalis	pepijndevos: What's up?
09:20	pepijndevos	I'm trying to figure out how far I need to drive in a circle to move X cm sideways.
09:21	pepijndevos	I'm almost there, but my asin is going the wrong way.
09:21	pepijndevos	pasting code...
09:22	pepijndevos	https://www.refheap.com/19532
09:22	mdrogalis	Eh, sorry. That's out of my depth. :)
09:22	mdrogalis	Maybe try the math Stack Exchange.
09:23	pepijndevos	I think I'll figure it out eventually...
09:24	pepijndevos	So the problem is that right now, it's like I'm facing sideways. so maybe I need to add 90 degrees to it. But maybe I just need to use another a?(sin\|cos\|tan)
09:25	pepijndevos	In other wrods, if I say I have a turning radius of 10 cm, and want to move 1 cm sideways, it gives me 1.01.
09:43	noncom	pepijndevos: the code looks too complicated for the task
09:43	noncom	better avoid degrees at all, use radians.. only do degrees for input-output
09:43	noncom	will save you a lot of confusion and make the code much prettier
09:44	pepijndevos	Math is complicated… haha. Well, I'm open to suggestions.
09:44	noncom	if i were you, i would first get rid of all the degrees stuff and work with radians
09:45	noncom	try that, then see what code you get
09:45	pepijndevos	I mean… yes but.. that won;t solve the problem.
09:46	pepijndevos	distance-after works fine. Its the (Math/asin (/ sideways radius)) part that is causing trouble.
09:49	noncom	pepijndevos: https://www.refheap.com/19533
09:51	noncom	at least, multiplying angle with two pi seens strange
09:51	noncom	also, why is it you divide sideways by radius?
09:52	noncom	asin is taken from the length of a x-axis segment and gives the angle which corresponds to the projection on the x-axis
09:53	noncom	ah, your radius is not normalized, sorry i see
09:53	pepijndevos	well, asin expects somethign between 0 and 1. So if I want to move 1 cm with a turning radius of 10, I plug in 0.1 to that function.
09:53	noncom	right, i missed that
09:53	noncom	so ,then to me what is strange seems the line 4 in myrefheap
09:54	noncom	(* angle two-pi radius)
09:54	mishok13	probably a stupid question and asked here hundreds of times, however: when I try to access resource from uberjar it fails with java.io.FileNotFoundException while when working from REPL everything works just fine
09:55	pepijndevos	I don't know about that, but what my code did was taking the degrees needed to turn, devide them by a full circle, and then take that much of the circunference of the radius.
09:55	mishok13	basically, the exception says that the path is path/to/uberjar.jar!public/resource.txt which is obviously not openable by io/file or io/reader
09:58	mdrogalis	mishok13: clojure.java.io/resource
09:58	mishok13	yeah, I'm using exactly that
09:58	mdrogalis	Hmph. Not sure then.
09:59	pepijndevos	So since you use radians, that would be (* (/ degrees two-pi) (* two-pi radius)) right?
10:00	pepijndevos	noncom, I did not quite parse that bit about the x-axis you said. Can you explain that?
10:01	pepijndevos	Oh, i think I got it...
10:01	noncom	ah, yes
10:01	noncom	well, maybe then, if your radius is 10 and you get 10.1, then it is because you did not multiply 0.1 by 10 ?
10:02	noncom	or what result you expect?
10:02	TimMc	Everything becomes easier if you just use tau (2 pi).
10:02	noncom	uhh, i guess i mess up even more than you did :D
10:02	TimMc	http://tauday.com/tau-manifesto
10:03	noncom	TimMc: ahaha yeah, i remember that one :)
10:03	hyPiRion	isn't like, degrees/2pi * 2pi / radius = degrees/radius? :)
10:05	pepijndevos	So your car is facing north, or 0 deg. and you want to move sideways 1 cm. So you start turning, and at first you are driving almost north, 5deg or so. So it'd take you maybe 3cm to move sideways just 1 cm.
10:06	pepijndevos	But the result I'm getting is like if I'm facing west, and turining away from where I want to go. So at first you move almost 1 cm sideways for every 1 cm you drive.
10:06	noncom	so you want the length of the arc
10:07	pepijndevos	ultimately, yes
10:07	pepijndevos	distance-after calculates the length of the arc to trun X degrees
10:14	noncom	so, the ultimate formula is (* two-pi r (/ (asin (/ x-dist r)) two-pi))
10:14	noncom	?
10:15	noncom	what boils down to (* r (asin (/ x-dist r)))
10:18	pepijndevos	but it's stil facing the wrong way… I think I found something that works… hold on
10:19	pepijndevos	https://www.refheap.com/19534
10:20	noncom	hehe
10:21	pepijndevos	It looks wrong, but works correctly.. seemingly
10:23	pepijndevos	I'll try on the robot, and if it works, I declare it mathematically, or at least empirically correct.
10:23	noncom	cool!
10:24	pepijndevos	it's fro this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9_pNfebQf4
10:26	noncom	wow! that wat you did?
10:26	pepijndevos	yea
10:26	noncom	pretty cool, are you using arduino?
10:27	noncom	or is it a different flavor of robot
10:27	pepijndevos	LEGO EV3
10:27	pepijndevos	Runs Clojure :)
10:28	Morgawr	nice
10:28	Morgawr	that's pretty cool
10:28	noncom	personally i think this is supa nice thing! probably we're gonna work with something like that in our company sometime
10:29	noncom	btw, if you're taking on lisp, probably you could write a self-assembling lego robot sometime!
10:29	pepijndevos	:)
10:30	noncom	you could use opencv to identify lego pieces from cameras
10:30	noncom	and try to stack them according to some design, maybe controlled by some fancy ai thing..
10:30	noncom	although that'll require very precise servos
10:32	clgv	noncom: evolutionary programming with LEGO :D
10:33	clgv	noncom: evolving the code and the physical built that would be cool
10:35	noncom	yeah, but lego may come to be a little harder to handle than, say, plain cubes with magnets and stuff
10:36	noncom	they bricks have these.. how you call them, idk, pins, which stack one in another to connect them
10:36	noncom	comfortable for hands but i think not for autos
10:42	cmajor7	I am sure there were many discussions previously, but time goes on, software changes.. I am looking for a testing framework. Candidates are clojure.test, midje and speclj. What experiences do you guys have with these?
10:45	tbaldrid_	cmajor7: keep it super simple, go with clojure.test
10:45	tbaldridge	I've tried both of the others and regretted it over time.
10:46	coventry	What are the drawbacks?
10:46	cmajor7	tbaldrid_: that's what I am afraid of. the other two look seductive, but add complexity..
10:46	diogenes	hey. noobie here. how can you transform a integer like 123 to a list '(1 2 3)?
10:47	cmajor7	tbaldrid_: I am also spoiled by using spock (groovy testing framework), hence "seductive"
10:47	tbaldridge	cmajor7: that's my only real complaint. clojure.test just creates defns. The source for all the constructs fits on a few lines. For both of the others, they look pretty perhaps, but they accomplish this via lots of macros.
10:47	borkdude	diogenes (seq (str 123))
10:47	diogenes	borkdude: thanks!
10:47	borkdude	diogenes actually that is a seq of chars, if you want to transform those into ints again, you probably know how
10:48	noncom	,(map int (str 123))
10:48	clojurebot	(49 50 51)
10:48	noncom	oh
10:48	tbaldridge	cmajor7: I also wonder if we don't really need with-redefs or "providing" if we structure our Clojure code correctly. Have each testable "thing" take its data sources as arguments, and now you don't need to redef any global vars.
10:48	cmajor7	tbaldridge: how would lots of macros behind the scene hurt? (curious)
10:48	diogenes	noncom: that works better. thanks
10:49	noncom	diogenes: but that's worng :)
10:49	borkdude	,(map #(Integer/parseInt (str %)) (str 123))
10:49	clojurebot	(1 2 3)
10:49	noncom	it gives bytes for the chars
10:49	tbaldridge	cmajor7: it hurts when the blow up. With Midje I'm often wondering what the code means. This is because Midje defines a DSL with different semantics from Clojure. Some parts of the code are run out of order, or even backwards.
10:49	cmajor7	tbaldridge: it does not seem I need to compose them myself, since they are "their" test primitives
10:50	cmajor7	tbaldridge: yea, I get this impression from the docs.. not very simple and .. not very clojure. hence looked at speclj..
10:50	tbaldridge	cmajor7: Midje is based on =>. How is that macro implemented?
10:51	tbaldridge	cmajor7: yeah, I like speclj more, but there's little community support. That's often a bad reason not to use something, though.
10:52	tbaldridge	cmajor7: so I wouldn't say I love clojure.test. It's just there's no better alternative, IMO.
10:52	cmajor7	tbaldridge: yea, that is my thinking exactly
10:53	cmajor7	tbaldridge: what would some disadvantages (if any) of clojure.test be that you can think of?
10:53	iwillig	does clojure.contrib.mock still exist ? I was looking at this page http://dev.clojure.org/display/community/Where+Did+Clojure.Contrib+Go and it seems like mock was never migrated to a namespace. Is that correct ?
10:53	coventry	What does clojure.test gain by putting the test body in the function metadata?
10:54	maku_	Has anyone used the OrientDB Wrapper: https://github.com/eduardoejp/clj-orient?
10:56	tbaldridge	cmajor7: I have a very minimalistic view of testing. All I need is assert and a way to name tests. Using that, I can built almost any other check that I need. For instance, the core.async CLJS source uses the 30 lines of code I wrote here: https://github.com/clojure/core.async/blob/master/src/test/cljs/cljs/core/async/test_helpers.clj
10:57	tbaldridge	cmajor7: that's all I really need from a test suite. And for that, clojure.test fits very well. Power through simplicity :-P
10:58	cmajor7	tbaldridge: that's cool, although is 43 lines :) so you chose not to use clojure.test here at all, or you compliment it with clojure.test?
10:59	tbaldridge	cmajor7: clojure.test doesn't exist in CLJS or it didn't at the time I wrote this
10:59	cmajor7	tbaldridge: oh.. missed the S part in CLJS
11:01	cmajor7	tbaldridge: I see. yea, I am convinced. "clojure.test" it is.
11:05	cmajor7	tbaldridge: on more "test" thing I am contemplating about: since in clojure we use repl pretty heavily, and it's a culture of constantly interacting with the code, do you see a true usefulness from "unit" tests? I do for things like libraries, but I feel that "integration" tests provide a lot more value and a lot less regression headache for "customer problem" solutions (not exactly general purpose libraries)? This is n
11:07	coventry	I generally test something in a repl, then stick it the test battery once it works. Guards against regressions.
11:07	tbaldridge	cmajor7: I agree, and core.async is a good example of this. There are about 700 lines of code behind the go macro, and yet I don't test any of the functions in that namespace. Instead I test the client API to the namespace. With enough tests, you can pin down failures purely on what tests are failing.
11:08	tbaldridge	and you end up testing the library's specifications, and not the implementation of the library.
11:08	tbaldridge	coventry: agreed, I test because I fear regression.
11:12	mdrogalis	As it turns out, Simulant makes a pretty neat replacement for Curl tests.
11:14	bbloom	bitemyapp: you're impacted by the ArraySeq/RestFn perf issue, right? https://groups.google.com/d/topic/clojure-dev/Gaz17qMfwrk/discussion
11:14	bbloom	who else was on that list?
11:15	mimieux	9
11:28	ambrosebs	thoughts on potential Typed Clojure logo? https://raw.github.com/typed-clojure/typed-clojure.com/master/images/letterbox.png
11:30	bbloom	ambrosebs: it's a tau? perfect :-P
11:31	rurumate_	has anyone ever got "goog.string.format is not a function" error?
11:31	ambrosebs	bbloom: yes! :D
11:31	rurumate_	(using latest clojurescript)
11:31	rurumate_	this error happens at runtime
11:32	bbloom	rurumate_: can you produce a minimal reproduction?
11:32	jonasen	rurumate_: are you using cljs.core/format?
11:32	rurumate_	jonasen: not yet
11:33	jonasen	rurumate_: ok, it has been removed from core
11:33	jonasen	somehow it messed up advanced optimizations
11:34	rurumate_	bbloom: I'm too stressed out right now, maybe on the weekend
11:35	stuartsierra	coventry: Re "What does clojure.test gain by putting the test body in the function metadata?" Originally I thought tests could be attached as metadata to the function they're testing. The `with-test` macro exists to support this. But the style never caught on.
11:35	rurumate_	jonasen, bbloom: try replacing format calls with goog.string.format, it should break at runtime
11:35	coventry	Thanks, stuartsierra.
11:35	stuartsierra	I and others quickly discovered that mixing tests and source in the same file makes the source hard to read.
11:36	bbloom	i feel the same way about type annotations
11:37	coventry	I'm working on a code-walking/transformation library at the moment, and want it to be able to handle the clojure source code, so having the test bodies in the metadata is complicating my life a little.
11:37	xeqi	tbaldridge: cemerick has built https://github.com/cemerick/clojurescript.test. Not that it helps for core.async since it doesn't fall under the contrib umbrella
11:39	pepijndevos	You know, in math you can do these reorder things, like a + b = c to c - b = a. Would be neat to do that with clojure automagically.
11:39	EchoBot1	Echo: You know, in math you can do these reorder things, like a + b = c to c - b = a. Would be neat to do that with clojure automagically.
11:40	EchoBot1	Echo: help
11:40	xeqi	technomancy: ^
11:40	EchoBot1	Echo: technomancy: ^
11:40	ToxicFrog	Whose fault is that?
11:40	EchoBot1	Echo: Whose fault is that?
11:41	EchoBot1	Echo: even sending private messages end up in #clojure
11:41	bbloom	pepijndevos: what you're talking about is called symbolic programming. there are a few small projects to do things like that
11:41	EchoBot1	Echo: pepijndevos: what you're talking about is called symbolic programming. there are a few small projects to do things like that
11:41	Gooder	why I C-x C-e the code, it prompts ""No Lisp subprocess; see variable `inferior-lisp-buffer' ." ?
11:41	EchoBot1	Echo: why I C-x C-e the code, it prompts ""No Lisp subprocess; see variable `inferior-lisp-buffer' ." ?
11:41	ToxicFrog	To the /ignore
11:41	EchoBot1	Echo: To the /ignore
11:41	EchoBot1	Echo: Fuck off, EchoBot1. :-)
11:41	pepijndevos	ban dat filth
11:41	EchoBot1	Echo: ban dat filth
11:41	bbloom	i've already ignored it :-P
11:41	EchoBot1	Echo: i've already ignored it :-P
11:42	pepijndevos	me too, but it's still annoying
11:42	EchoBot1	Echo: me too, but it's still annoying
11:42	Jarda	die
11:42	EchoBot1	Echo: die
11:42	EchoBot1	Echo: die
11:42	coventry	Gooder: You have to start a repl. Try running M-x nrepl-jack-in before the C-x C-e.
11:42	EchoBot1	Echo: Gooder: You have to start a repl. Try running M-x nrepl-jack-in before the C-x C-e.
11:43	bbloom	technomancy is on the west coast though. he might still be sleeping
11:43	EchoBot1	Echo: technomancy is on the west coast though. he might still be sleeping
11:43	nDuff	...do we really have any legitimate reason to allow clients from *.compute.amazonaws.com? I'd almost ban the whole subnet.
11:43	pepijndevos	bbloom, cool, thanks. Looking into that.
11:43	EchoBot1	Echo: ...do we really have any legitimate reason to allow clients from *.compute.amazonaws.com? I'd almost ban the whole subnet.
11:43	EchoBot1	Echo: bbloom, cool, thanks. Looking into that.
11:43	Gooder	coventry: in the terminal, run the `lein repl` firstly?
11:43	EchoBot1	Echo: coventry: in the terminal, run the `lein repl` firstly?
11:43	hyPiRion	bbloom: no, he was awake 40 mins ago
11:43	EchoBot1	Echo: bbloom: no, he was awake 40 mins ago
11:43	TimMc	nDuff: Sure, some people run bouncers.
11:43	EchoBot1	Echo: nDuff: Sure, some people run bouncers.
11:43	pepijndevos	I don;t know where lazybot runs
11:43	EchoBot1	Echo: I don;t know where lazybot runs
11:44	coventry	Gooder: Wasn't what I was thinking of. Hold down Alt and press "x", then type "nrepl-jack-in", then return. A repl window should appear in a few seconds.
11:44	EchoBot1	Echo: Gooder: Wasn't what I was thinking of. Hold down Alt and press "x", then type "nrepl-jack-in", then return. A repl window should appear in a few seconds.
11:44	TimMc	This is still the same host as CommandBot: ~nodebot@ec2-50-18-210-65.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com
11:44	EchoBot1	Echo: This is still the same host as CommandBot: ~nodebot@ec2-50-18-210-65.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com
11:44	pepijndevos	bbloom, do you know any good libsa that do this?
11:44	EchoBot1	Echo: bbloom, do you know any good libsa that do this?
11:45	coventry	Gooder: http://clojure-doc.org/articles/tutorials/emacs.html#creating_a_project
11:45	EchoBot1	Echo: Gooder: http://clojure-doc.org/articles/tutorials/emacs.html#creating_a_project
11:45	bbloom	pepijndevos: it's a very hard thing to do well. there is a mathematica/clojure bridge if you need something fancy. other than that, there are a lot of toy libraries to do it. if you only need the basics for polynomials, you can code it up yourself in ~1 hour
11:45	EchoBot1	Echo: pepijndevos: it's a very hard thing to do well. there is a mathematica/clojure bridge if you need something fancy. other than that, there are a lot of toy libraries to do it. if you only need the basics for polynomials, you can code it up yourself in ~1 hour
11:46	pepijndevos	bbloom, basically I just need to do the inverse of the sine/cosine stuff I did earlier. I could just use some brain cells t do it by hand...
11:46	EchoBot1	Echo: bbloom, basically I just need to do the inverse of the sine/cosine stuff I did earlier. I could just use some brain cells t do it by hand...
11:46	Gooder	coventry: okay, reading
11:46	EchoBot1	Echo: coventry: okay, reading
11:47	pepijndevos	it'd require less brain cells than writing a library
11:47	EchoBot1	Echo: it'd require less brain cells than writing a library
11:48	coventry	There's probably a solver which would invert it numerically for you fast enough for your application.
11:48	EchoBot1	Echo: There's probably a solver which would invert it numerically for you fast enough for your application.
11:49	seangrov`	bbloom pepijndevos Wasn't espresso built for that during GSoC?
11:49	EchoBot1	Echo: bbloom pepijndevos Wasn't espresso built for that during GSoC?
11:50	seangrov`	pepijndevos: https://github.com/clojure-numerics/expresso
11:50	EchoBot1	Echo: pepijndevos: https://github.com/clojure-numerics/expresso
11:50	pepijndevos	thanks
11:50	EchoBot1	Echo: thanks
11:52	pepijndevos	hmmm, maybe using the even requires more brain cells than writing my function. Term rewriting is fancier though...
11:52	EchoBot1	Echo: hmmm, maybe using the even requires more brain cells than writing my function. Term rewriting is fancier though...
11:53	indigo	Looks like I found the source code
11:53	EchoBot1	Echo: Looks like I found the source code
11:53	bbloom	seangrov`: i wasn't following that closely, dunno
11:53	EchoBot1	Echo: seangrov`: i wasn't following that closely, dunno
11:54	Gooder	coventry: still fails. actually I use the default basic Steve Purcell's configs.
11:54	EchoBot1	Echo: coventry: still fails. actually I use the default basic Steve Purcell's configs.
11:54	EchoBot2	Echo: coventry: still fails. actually I use the default basic Steve Purcell's configs.
11:54	EchoBot1	Echo: Echo: coventry: still fails. actually I use the default basic Steve Purcell's configs.
11:54	EchoBot2	Echo: Echo: coventry: still fails. actually I use the default basic Steve Purcell's configs.
11:54	EchoBot1	Echo: Echo: Echo: coventry: still fails. actually I use the default basic Steve Purcell's configs.
11:54	EchoBot2	Echo: Echo: Echo: coventry: still fails. actually I use the default basic Steve Purcell's configs.
11:54	EchoBot1	Echo: Echo: Echo: Echo: coventry: still fails. actually I use the default basic Steve Purcell's configs.
11:54	EchoBot2	Echo: Echo: Echo: Echo: coventry: still fails. actually I use the default basic Steve Purcell's configs.
11:54	EchoBot1	Echo: Echo: Echo: Echo: Echo: coventry: still fails. actually I use the default basic Steve Purcell's configs.
11:54	EchoBot2	Echo: Echo: Echo: Echo: Echo: coventry: still fails. actually I use the default basic Steve Purcell's configs.
11:54	EchoBot1	Echo: Echo: Echo: Echo: Echo: Echo: coventry: still fails. actually I use the default basic Steve Purcell's configs.
11:54	EchoBot2	Echo: Echo: Echo: Echo: Echo: Echo: coventry: still fails. actually I use the default basic Steve Purcell's configs.
11:54	EchoBot1	Echo: Echo: Echo: Echo: Echo: Echo: Echo: coventry: still fails. actually I use the default basic Steve Purcell's configs.
11:54	EchoBot2	Echo: Echo: Echo: Echo: Echo: Echo: Echo: coventry: still fails. actually I use the default basic Steve Purcell's configs.
11:54	EchoBot1	Echo: Echo: Echo: Echo: Echo: Echo: Echo: Echo: coventry: still fails. actually I use the default basic Steve Purcell's configs.
11:54	papachan	???
11:54	EchoBot1	Echo: ???
11:54	lazybot	papachan: Yes, 100% for sure.
11:54	EchoBot1	Echo: papachan: Yes, 100% for sure.
11:54	lazybot	EchoBot1: How could that be wrong?
11:54	EchoBot1	Echo: EchoBot1: How could that be wrong?
11:54	indigo	Kk, time to report this
11:54	EchoBot1	Echo: Kk, time to report this
11:55	indigo	It's this code here: http://runnable.com/UkmUo7yLFrctAAKe/irc-echo-bot-with-node-irc-for-node-js
11:55	EchoBot1	Echo: It's this code here: http://runnable.com/UkmUo7yLFrctAAKe/irc-echo-bot-with-node-irc-for-node-js
11:55	coventry	Gooder: Fails how?
11:55	EchoBot1	Echo: Gooder: Fails how?
11:56	coventry	indigo: How did you find that? Impressive.
11:56	EchoBot1	Echo: indigo: How did you find that? Impressive.
11:56	indigo	coventry: I can find anything
11:56	EchoBot1	Echo: coventry: I can find anything
11:56	indigo	Also Google
11:56	EchoBot1	Echo: Also Google
11:56	Gooder	coventry: C-x C-e the clojure codes, it prompts : inferior-lisp-proc: No Lisp subprocess; see variable `inferior-lisp-buffer'
11:56	EchoBot1	Echo: coventry: C-x C-e the clojure codes, it prompts : inferior-lisp-proc: No Lisp subprocess; see variable `inferior-lisp-buffer'
11:56	pepijndevos	wth is a Node bot doing in #clojure?
11:56	coventry	indigo: OK, google is impressive. :-)
11:57	coventry	Gooder: What about the result of the nrepl-jack-in?
11:58	Gooder	"Connected", a new buffer "nrepl server" created.
11:58	hyPiRion	the fact that it's a node bot isn't the problem. The problem is that it echoed everything
11:59	indigo	coventry: I posted a topic on their Get Satisfaction forum
11:59	indigo	http://support.runnable.com/runnable/topics/irc_spam_possibility_of_botnet
12:00	indigo	I mean, it does run through their servers
12:01	Gooder	coventry: I have to leave now, thank you for your helps.
12:01	coventry	Gooder: Good luck.
12:02	dsabanin	hey guys
12:03	dsabanin	is there any particular meaning in using full java class names with namespace in type hints instead of relying on the short names after import?
12:03	gfredericks	I recall some kind of bug with macros that would force you to do that
12:04	clojurebot	No entiendo
12:04	gfredericks	but I don't think there's any intrinsic reason to
12:04	clojurebot	Titim gan éirí ort.
12:04	gfredericks	will the bot respond to this too?
12:04	gfredericks	maybe it was a random chance double hit
12:05	dsabanin	so I guess until I hit that bug (if I do), I'm going to use the short type hints
12:05	dsabanin	thanks
12:08	gfredericks	yeah the bug was pretty loud -- it was a ClassNotFound exception at compile time. so you shouldn't have to worry about it otherwise.
12:09	coventry	indigo: Thanks for doing that. I +1'd.
12:10	indigo	Yeah no problem
12:10	indigo	Those guys need to get their shit together or else they're going to cause DoSes ;P
12:15	TimMc	Such a hilariously bad idea.
12:15	coventry	Why does Compiler/load bind RT.UNCHECKED_MATH to RT.UNCHECKED_MATH.deref()? Isn't that a no-op? https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/Compiler.java#L7054
12:16	dnolen	coventry: no, it was an atom and then it becomes a boolean
12:17	NotAnEchoBot	Echo: In audio signal processing and acoustics, a reflection of sound, arriving at the listener some time after the direct sound.
12:17	coventry	dnolen: Oh, got it. Thanks.
12:18	wakeup	Hi all
12:20	wakeup	I have the following situation: I want to build a UNIX-daemon that starts some threads (services) and then idles/does nothing wrapped in a (try ... (finally ...)) form where the started threads should be killed softly in case the process gets kill'ed. How would you guys do this?
12:21	wakeup	I have tried something like (try (loop [] (Thread/sleep 999999) (recur)) (finally clean-up))
12:21	TimMc	"Killed softly"?
12:22	wakeup	TimMc: E.g. clean up after the started services.
12:24	wakeup	Simplified, how do I never return and just idle?
12:24	TimMc	wakeup: So if it gets a SIGTERM, it should pass that on to the services.
12:25	wakeup	TimMc: No actually not that invovled, the "services" are plain Thread
12:25	Morgawr	wakeup: if you want to wait undefinitely, just use a promise and deref on it
12:25	wakeup	s
12:26	TimMc	wakeup: Metaphorically. :-)
12:26	Morgawr	then you could have a signal handler (not sure how that works in clojure tbh) delivering the promise once a signal is received
12:26	Morgawr	and when the promise is delivered you clean everything and exit
12:26	bja	anyone know offhand of the clj password hasher library that contains both bcrypt and scrypt hashers?
12:26	bja	I thought I saw one and I apparently forgot to star it
12:27	bja	weavejester/crypto-password
12:27	bja	nvm
12:28	TimMc	wakeup: That Thread/sleep can throw an InterruptedException, and I believe it will be thrown if the JVM gets an actual SIGTERM. You can handle it, ask your services to clean themselves up, and then return.
12:28	wakeup	SO you think looping a sleep is fine?
12:28	TimMc	However, there's probably some library out there that will do supervision better.
12:30	tbaldrid_	wakeup: or use core.async. The thread macro returns a channel that is closed when the thread crashes/finishes. Just alts!! over the channels and you can easily handle the termination of the threads. Add a common exception channel for the threads to send to on failure, and you have a fairly simple system.
12:31	cmajor7	tbaldridge: thanks! (for your thoughts on testing core.async). good to know I am not alone :)
12:31	tbaldridge	cmajor7: np
12:39	seangrov`	Is it even possible to figure out a Java api in an exploratory way? I looked through google-oauth-client's oauth1 namespace and javadocs, trying to piece together what had to be instantiated where and given to whom, and lost the thread. They have docs for the oauth2 stuff, read that, and realized I wouldn't have figured it out the oauth1 stuff for a long time if it's analogous to the oauth2 api.
12:45	TimMc	seangrov`: I once considered writing a program that would effectively tab-complete its way to any object you wanted by finding a type-checker-valid path through an API.
12:45	TimMc	But I wouldn't recommend that approach for anything having to do with security. :-P
12:45	joegallo_	eclipse was very good at that for java apis
12:46	technomancy	"no no, I have sheep and I want wheat. anybody?"
12:47	technomancy	you mean a BrickFactory?
12:47	rasmusto	:)
12:50	coventry	Is there a cleaner way to add multiple key/value pairs from one map to another than (reduce #(assoc %1 %2 (map1 %2)) map2 [:key :words])?
12:51	rasmusto	coventry merge and select-keys?
12:51	coventry	rasmusto: thanks.
12:52	rasmusto	,(merge {:a 1} (select-keys {:b 2 :c 3} [:b]))
12:52	clojurebot	{:b 2, :a 1}
12:52	rasmusto	remember that merge favors the rightmost map
12:52	sm0ke	umm guys there is no mailbox concept in core.async? In cse of high message throughput what would be the strategy when working with core.async?
12:53	coventry	rasmusto: Thanks. That would have bitten me.
12:53	sm0ke	i am kind of comparing this to actors in akka (scala) which have mailbox concepts which can be persistent too
12:54	tbaldridge	sm0ke: high message throughput? Explain. We have buffers in core.async.
12:55	sm0ke	tbaldridge: umm oh i see...can a buffer be made to overflow on to disk?
12:55	tbaldridge	sm0ke: there aren't implementations that do that, but the protocol interface for buffers is super super simple and need not be thread safe. So writing your own wouldn't be that hard.
12:56	tbaldridge	sm0ke: this is all that is needed to create a buffer: https://github.com/clojure/core.async/blob/master/src/main/clojure/clojure/core/async/impl/buffers.clj
12:56	tbaldridge	notice that none of these are thread-safe, core.async does locking so only one thread will call a buffer's methods at a time.
12:57	sm0ke	tbaldridge: cool and awesome..i was just being a tool..i never used a persistent mailbox in akka anyways ;p
12:57	tbaldridge	sm0ke: that being said, unbounded message queues are a design bug, so often its better to explicitly define a size for a buffer.
12:58	sm0ke	tbaldridge: yea specially if we can have sliding window kind of queue..it would be much better
12:59	sm0ke	oh wow i found (chan (sliding-buffer 10))
13:00	sm0ke	i couldnt seem to find any advantage of using actors at all
13:00	sm0ke	they are verbose
13:01	sm0ke	they need callbacks
13:15	bitemyapp	bbloom: yes I've been impacted by that perf issue.
13:15	bitemyapp	bbloom: I can't post to clojure-dev though
13:15	bbloom	bitemyapp: if you got a moment, see if you can give alex some help by testing his updated patch
13:16	bitemyapp	bbloom: I could send it through a side-channel, but not directly to that thread.
13:16	bbloom	bitemyapp: no CA?
13:16	bitemyapp	sigh, no.
13:16	bitemyapp	I know, I know, I should.
13:16	bitemyapp	I'd also have to dig up an old version of the templating stuff Yogthos and I worked on.
13:16	bitemyapp	we had a templating library whose main loop runtime was dominated by RestFn, not even kidding.
13:16	tbaldridge	I thought non CA people can comment on JIRA though, perhaps you can do it that way?
13:16	bitemyapp	and it was a quasi-reasonable implementation.
13:17	bitemyapp	lazy-seq and recursion.
13:17	bitemyapp	bbloom: if I can dig up my copy of YourKit and the offending code, I'll make certain it reaches Mr. Danger.
13:17	bbloom	bitemyapp: k
13:17	bitemyapp	thanks for making me aware he was hustling on this.
13:18	bitemyapp	I hope he knows we appreicate what he's been doing to catch everything up.
13:19	mdrogalis	Looking for a new book. Anyone read anything good lately? Open ended.
13:19	bitemyapp	seangrov`: I'll respond to the thread tonight, after I've had a chance to hum a bit.
13:19	bitemyapp	mdrogalis: I've got a few options for you that are really good.
13:19	mdrogalis	Fire away.
13:20	bitemyapp	mdrogalis: 1. epic sci-fi, might've already read it, but leaves an impact - well known classic. 2. Very well characterized and enjoyable fantasy with well thought-out magic system, probably the best and most thrilling trilogy I've read in many years. 3. Naval historical fiction, 20 book series but you can drop in and out at will, you won't be compelled to proceed. Two protagonists that are both interesting.
13:21	bitemyapp	mdrogalis: which do you want?
13:21	bitemyapp	I can recommend CS/programming stuff too, if that's what you want, but I figured I'd just go for pure reading enjoyment.
13:21	mdrogalis	Hm, none of those quite caught me. Bring on the nerd material.
13:22	hyPiRion	I can recommend "Hyperion" by Dan Simmons.
13:22	bitemyapp	mdrogalis: Art of the Metaobject Protocol?
13:22	bitemyapp	hyPiRion: are you named after the book?
13:22	mdrogalis	hyPiRion recommends himself. D:
13:22	technomancy	I'm reading that now
13:22	hyPiRion	bitemyapp: no, although it's one of the better books I've read :p
13:22	mdrogalis	Ill check that one out, thanks bitemyapp.
13:23	bitemyapp	mdrogalis: AMOP is the book that brought aspect-oriented programming to Common Lispers. It's a common n+1 recommendation I make to people that already know Lisp.
13:24	coventry	mdrogalis: A Hellhound on His Trail. History of MLK's assassin, related as a thriller.
13:24	bitemyapp	or (inc n) if you like. heh.
13:24	mdrogalis	bitemyapp: That's pretty neat. Still gotta check out LoL too.
13:24	mdrogalis	coventry: Sweet, thanks.
13:24	deg	bitemyapp: yes and no... CL had "before" and "after" mixins well before AMOP.... not quite full aspect-oriented, but definitely the seeds of the idea.
13:24	bitemyapp	mdrogalis: LoL is more about macros and macros writing macros. A lot of people think of it as arcane/crazy, but I feel less like that's the case as I get older.
13:25	bitemyapp	deg: well sure, people were doing function decoration from afar, but it wasn't nearly as well formulated as what Kiczales was going for.
13:25	turbopape	If noir is deprecated, what is the replacement ?
13:25	mdrogalis	noir-lib is the direct replacement
13:26	deg	bitemyapp: The usual "if I see further it is because I stand on the shoulders of giants" (or however the quote goes)
13:26	deg	But, yes, I agree with you; just nitpicking
13:27	bitemyapp	I love it when somebody rejects my PR to fix a bug, then when I go to use their thing again, the same Null Pointer Exception my PR was supposed to fix pops up, then I take a screenshot and paste the error into a github issue, and they're nowhere to be seen.
13:27	bitemyapp	I need Knives over TCP/IP to become a thing.
13:27	bitemyapp	SIG_STAB
13:27	deg	Can a project's :main namespace come from one of its dependency libraries, or must it be defined directly in the project itself?
13:27	rasmusto	SIG_INTERNAL_BLEEDING
13:28	technomancy	deg: it should work; give it a try
13:28	deg	technomancy: thx, will do.
13:29	turbopape	ok, compojure + lib-noir, I get it ...
13:30	bitemyapp	turbopape: good, because I was questioning my sanity yesterday when I forgot to load the wrap-params middleware.
13:30	bitemyapp	I derped when I should've not been an idiot.
13:31	turbopape	bitemyapp, yeah, seems weird to deprecate "noir" and to recommend "lib-noir" (on top of compojure...)
13:31	bitemyapp	turbopape: no, it makes sense.
13:31	technomancy	well, the problem with noir was that it wasn't a library
13:31	bitemyapp	turbopape: it had to made into a library from which people could pick and choose what they wanted.
13:32	turbopape	ok, I just pointed the fact that the message fro the website is confusing ... :)
13:32	turbopape	excuse my NOOBNESS :)
13:32	bitemyapp	Weavejester is the one true Pope of "everything can be middleware!"
13:32	indigo	Middleware ftw
13:32	technomancy	ah; they finally got a deprecation notice on webnoir.org; good
13:33	bitemyapp	technomancy: I had to bug the shit out of him, but yes.
13:33	bitemyapp	I was practically banging on his door with pitchforks and a torch
13:33	technomancy	one of the upsides of living in SF, I suppose
13:33	turbopape	:)
13:33	bitemyapp	luckily it wasn't physical harassment, but that option was under advisement.
13:33	rasmusto	bitemyapp: is libnoir your pitched fork?
13:34	bitemyapp	rasmusto: lib-noir is yogthos, Raynes, and the long tail of contributors. I just boss them around occasionally.
13:34	rasmusto	ah, gotcha
13:34	bitemyapp	I'm still trying to get them to stop using dynamic vars.
13:34	xeqi	I've been considering templating as middleware
13:34	bitemyapp	so that lib-noir can become completely async-safe.
13:34	bitemyapp	xeqi: I can tell you exactly how it could be done.
13:34	bitemyapp	xeqi: if you care to know.
13:35	xeqi	bitemyapp: I've done it in a small project
13:35	bitemyapp	xeqi: it's super handy for testing, because then you can request context maps from handlers instead of rendering HTML.
13:35	bitemyapp	xeqi: then your "controllers" roughly speaking, become testable.
13:35	technomancy	oh man
13:35	technomancy	that sounds like fun
13:35	bitemyapp	Doesn't need to be middleware though.
13:35	coventry	Is there a more clojure-ish way to do (. Compiler/LINE_AFTER set 1), given that I've already bound LINE_AFTER in a (binding) form (so I assume (set!) is out)?
13:35	bitemyapp	technomancy: old idea I stole from Pylons/Pyramid. I love it.
13:36	bitemyapp	technomancy: I just make a mock request that asks for the JSON in the test cases.
13:36	bitemyapp	it's proper "web" style to just use the content accept header to do this anyway.
13:36	technomancy	yeah, I've often wondered what a "proper" generalized content-accept system would look like in ring
13:36	coventry	(I'm porting Compiler/load to clojure. Don't suppose anyone knows of prior work along these lines?)
13:36	technomancy	I should have known the answer would be middleware
13:36	technomancy	it is always the answer
13:37	bitemyapp	technomancy: I don't do it through middleware, but that's an option.
13:37	bitemyapp	technomancy: I capture the request through a dirty macro and condition the behavior against the content of the request.
13:37	xeqi	it also leads to pure view functions that take a map of vars, which I like
13:37	technomancy	huh, a map of vars?
13:37	bitemyapp	xeqi: this only works nicely partly because Selmer is Django-style templating and naturally accepts an associative data structure to create the template rendering context.
13:38	bitemyapp	which can just be returned as a map or JSON anyway.
13:38	xeqi	technomancy: eh, associative data structure of names to values
13:38	technomancy	sure
13:39	xeqi	bitemyapp: how are you doing layout wrapping outside of a middleware?
13:39	bitemyapp	xeqi: Selmer dude.
13:39	bitemyapp	xeqi: learn it, love it, live it. https://github.com/yogthos/Selmer/
13:40	bitemyapp	also, since we're on the topic of middleware, https://github.com/weavejester/clout/ <--- really useful.
13:41	technomancy	isn't cloud part of compojure?
13:41	technomancy	clout
13:41	xeqi	ah, do it at the template level when they are loaded by the view functions. thats a good idea
13:41	bitemyapp	xeqi: :)
13:41	xeqi	technomancy: if you want your middleware to use compojure
13:41	technomancy	huh
13:42	technomancy	maybe I should try writing a web app that's more than 500 lines some day
13:42	bitemyapp	technomancy: yeah but then hair sprouts from your knuckles and you turn into me.
13:43	xeqi	is there a good ring content negotation lib?
13:44	bitemyapp	xeqi: https://github.com/rnewman/clj-conneg https://github.com/ngrunwald/ring-middleware-format
13:44	bitemyapp	nothing super-holistic.
13:46	TimMc	bitemyapp: Is (2) written by the son of a well-known economist, by any chance?
13:49	coventry	What is the right way to refer to LispReader.ReaderException in clojure catch clause?
13:49	deg	technomancy: fyi, :main from a library class works fine, as expected.
13:50	xeqi	,clojure.lang.LispReader$ReaderException
13:50	clojurebot	clojure.lang.LispReader$ReaderException
13:50	coventry	xeqi: Thanks.
13:50	bitemyapp	TimMc: don't think so.
13:55	coventry	What's the right way to create a new Compiler/CompilerException for throwing? ##(clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException. "foo" 1 2 (Exception. "bar"))
13:55	lazybot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching ctor found for class clojure.lang.Compiler$CompilerException
13:55	coventry	Huh, that's a different error message than I get in my repl. I get ClassCastException: java.lang.Long cannot be cast to java.lang.Integer
13:56	coventry	Oh, do I have to explicitly make the arguments ints?
13:56	xeqi	&clojure-version
13:56	lazybot	⇒ {:major 1, :minor 4, :incremental 0, :qualifier nil}
13:57	rasmusto	##clojure-version
13:57	rasmusto	,clojure-version
13:57	clojurebot	{:interim true, :major 1, :minor 6, :incremental 0, :qualifier "master"}
13:58	indigo	Lazybot is lazy, it's two versions behind ;P
13:58	coventry	Good to know. I generally choose between the two depending on where it is in my message text. :-)
13:59	TimMc	bitemyapp: Anyway, I'd be curious to hear that recommendation. I like well-founded magic systems.
14:00	coventry	Oh, my repl is horked. Can create a CompilerException instance without problems in a new one.
14:02	bitemyapp	TimMc: Mistborn
14:08	coventry	I'd be grateful if someone with java interop experience could take a look at https://www.refheap.com/19541 vs https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/Compiler.java#L7034 The logic is pretty simple, it's the java interop expressions I'm likely to screw up.
14:22	craigbro	blurp
14:24	dnolen	jonasen: re: cljsfiddle.net so are you thinking about passing compiler warnings to the front end? Also if you have any suggestions about changing how we emit warnings to make them easier to report in cljsfiddle.net I'm all ears - I want to make the warnings usable by tools.
14:24	coventry	updated so at least it compiles. :-) https://www.refheap.com/19541
14:34	Fer__	Hello, what's the reasoning behind making thread pools size = number of processors + 2. Google doesn't tell me much
14:35	jtoy	how does one get ring/jetty to bind to 0.0.0.0 ?
14:37	joegallo_	Fer__: well, i mean, of course you want at least the number of processors. so that's a start. and then two better is like practically twice as good, no doubt. one wouldn't be nearly enough and three would be utter lunacy.
14:37	joegallo_	Q.E.D.
14:37	clojurebot	No entiendo
14:38	Fer__	clojurebot: me neither
14:38	clojurebot	excusez-moi
14:40	jtoy	nm, isee
14:41	technomancy	"Two shall be the number of the counting, and the number of the counting shall be two. Five is right out."
14:43	deg	If my project includes a library twice (once directly, and once via another library); and if the included library has a top-level def of an atom; then what happens?
14:43	deg	Does java have some defined linker-like behavior, or is it just a window to disaster?
14:43	coventry	deg: Depends on how you include. If you use require/use, and don't use :reload, it only gets executed once.
14:44	Fer__	=[
14:45	technomancy	deg: only an issue during development
14:45	deg	Hmm, that's good but makes it less clear what lossage I'm hitting. Probably I'll shout back in a few minutes when I've debugged further.
14:45	deg	technomancy: what do you mean?
14:46	technomancy	deg: the atom will get reset back to the initial value whenever you reload, but reloading only happens in development
14:46	coventry	deg: You can verify the number of times it's executing by putting a println in the included file.
14:46	deg	I see; good idea.
14:46	aaelony	first foray into clojurescript... I have clojurescript code that uses a data structure to create a visualization. Should my existing clj code (1) talk to the database and write the data out to file such that the cljs code can pick it up, or (2) should I attempt to make cljs talk directly to the database? What do people recommend?
14:47	TimMc	Fer__: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/13834692/threads-configuration-based-on-no-of-cpu-cores
14:47	TimMc	That doesn't tell you why a thread pool is cores + 2, but it does have some good discussion of how one might pick such a number.
14:57	Fer__	TimMc: thanks
15:00	deg	I'm starting my project with lein ring-server headless. I have code in one .clj file, including a top-level println, that doesn't run when the project starts. (And, a println in another file, the one tagged :ring in the project.clj, does print, so it's not a stdout problem).
15:03	coventry	Yay, my Compiler/load clone works with only minor modifications.
15:04	deg	Hmm, if I require the second file from the main file, then I see its println. Does lein ring only include files that are transitively required by the entry point?
15:06	gfredericks	deg: yeah that sounds plausible
15:06	deg	(yeah, I know that sounds dumb. ... how could code be needed if its not called from the entry point. Full story, effectively, is that the other code is loading plug-ins that get registered in an atom owned by the main file)
15:07	deg	Am I just barking up a path that can't work?
15:07	gfredericks	and you don't want to require it from the entry point because that seems like the wrong responsibility?
15:07	deg	Exactly.
15:08	gfredericks	so who cares about this? the entity starting the server?
15:08	gfredericks	if you could do this from your project.clj somehow would that feel better?
15:08	deg	In the fuller picture, the problem may go away, because there will be a diamond dependency that will fix the problem (I think). Full story is:
15:09	deg	One small project, "muxx" is a bit of compojure code that dispatches to multiple small websites.
15:09	deg	Each website will be its own project and will register itself with muxx.
15:10	deg	A deployment will be another tiny project that will just list all the websites that are deployed together on one site.
15:11	deg	So, if I made the main entry point be the deployment site, then all should work. But, since there will be multiple deployments, I'd rather not duplicate code and instead have the entry point always be in muxx.
15:11	deg	(end of typing)
15:11	llasram	deg: `require` is a function -- you can provide config which lists the namespaces to `require`
15:14	deg	llasram: I see, but not quite sure how to apply that. ...
15:14	deg	I guess the deploy site could ask muxx to require each of the needed website namespaces. Yeah, a bit more plumbing than I'd like, but I can see that working, I think.
15:17	piranha	dnolen: are you by any chance here? I discovered one thing and I'm not sure if that's intended or not...
15:17	dnolen	piranha: what's up?
15:18	piranha	dnolen: https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/blob/master/src/clj/cljs/closure.clj#L211 - this take-while here basically says 'this file can provide only single module'
15:18	piranha	I just have a big file with lots of modules in there...
15:18	piranha	and if I comment this take-while out, it gets in
15:19	piranha	(I'm still trying to join a gcc-modularized stuff with :libs option)
15:19	piranha	so the question is if you think it would be harmful to remove this line
15:20	dnolen	piranha: why do you have file with multiple modules?
15:21	deg	llasram: gfredericks: (can IRC flag two folks?) Actually that doesn't, because the websites need to require the muxx ns to call its api. So, I can't require them back since cycles are not allowed.
15:21	piranha	dnolen: closure compiler has a mode to convert a lot of file using CommonJS modules into a single file using goog.provide/require
15:21	deg	So, looks like my only choice not to have my entry point in muxx, but rather in the deployment. Right? sigh.
15:22	dnolen	piranha: and it can't convert them into separate files?
15:22	piranha	dnolen: at least I can't find how... it just spits them in the stdout
15:23	llasram	deg: They're only not allowed when they're actually recursive. You can have `muxx` expose a function which when called causes it load other namespaces, even namespaces which themselves require `muux`.
15:23	dnolen	piranha: I would investigate some more, or figure how to make Closure do the right thing. Dependency resolution in closure.clj assumes module -> file, I don't want to complicate that logic at all.
15:24	piranha	dnolen: oh... I see, maybe I can separate this stuff to small files
15:24	dnolen	piranha: yes
15:25	deg	llasram: Really? Wow. Why is that not considered to be a cycle?
15:25	piranha	dnolen: also, unrelated things - maybe you can suggest something... if a library gets compiled in advanced mode and something small is failing, what do you usually do to discover what it is?
15:25	llasram	deg: Because it isn't a load-time cycle
15:25	llasram	The `muxx` namespace is already loaded. Once fully loaded, it's free to cause other nses to be loaded which depend on it
15:26	deg	llasram: cool. And, the run-time load will still cause one-time evaluation of all forms in the loaded namespace?
15:27	llasram	Yep. `require` has the same effect at "run time".
15:28	deg	Thanks. This is going to be a fun API to define; loads of trampolining.
15:29	deg	Might even become generally useful. My motivation is that I have some VERY lightly-used personal sites, and I want to deploy multiple sites onto one cloud-hosted site to reduce deployment costs.
15:30	llasram	Oh -- in a way that using e.g. jetty as a multi-application container doesn't already support?
15:30	jcromart_	why the heck is clojure.xml even still there?
15:30	deg	???? OH. I didn't know jetty already had this support.
15:31	deg	My guess, then, is that I was just reinventing the wheel. Guess I should take a long pause and look at the jetty docs.
15:31	jcromart_	is there any reason hiccup would be inappropriate for generating XML?
15:31	deg	Big thanks! You probably just saved me a few hours.
15:32	llasram	Hah. I've never done it myself, but I know some people here do (e.g. amalloy IIRC)
15:32	llasram	Anyway, good luck :-)
15:33	amalloy	we've actually stopped doing it, llasram. too much arcane jetty weirdness for little benefit, given the server resources we have available
15:33	deg	Serves me right for trying to program web sites in Clojure without knowing the first thing about J2EE.
15:33	deg	amalloy: Do you recommend that I wrestle jetty, or roll my own in Clojure?
15:33	amalloy	meh
15:34	amalloy	rolling your own version of jetty sounds kinda pointless
15:34	deg	agreed, until you said "too much arcane jetty weirdness". Definitely 'meh' either way.
15:35	amalloy	i can't imagine why you would write it to have cycles, though, if you were going to do it. have the server namespace expose hooks, or functions that take a handler, or something. there's no reason at all it should know about the various handler namespaces
15:36	deg	Ideally, yes. The only reason for the cycle is if I want the ring entry point to be in the server, then I needed (per above) some way to tell the loader to bring in the namespaces that will register with it.
15:36	amalloy	or have a -main function that calls (muxx/serve [{:sitename "foo" :handler f} {:sitename "bar" :handler g}])
15:36	amalloy	and -main requires the namespaces containing f and g itself
15:37	Morgawr	question.. how can I run a .clj file/script from the command line with lein? Like in clojure normally I can just do "clojure myscript.clj" and it will compile + execute the single file
15:37	deg	Yup. The only downside of that is that I then need to write a -main for each deployment. But, I'm being silly. I can reduce that down to one line of code.
15:37	Morgawr	I want to do the same with lein
15:37	Morgawr	without having to create a whole project
15:38	deg	So, yeah. Looks like choice 1 is to see if Jetty just does what I want. Choice 2 is to let the -main be the deployment. The hairy namespace cycles are a distant choice 3.
15:39	jonasen	dnolen: re:warnings. I'm planning to start with the new error messages and see if I can highlight the offending code in CodeMirror. And yes, if I can easily pass warnings I'll do that too.
15:39	deg	Thanks all. Hitting the witching hour in my timezone. I think I've got my marching orders for tomorrow. g'nite all.
15:39	jonasen	dnolen: I'm not a big fan of warnings in general.. I like that in golang there are no warnings, either the code compiles or it doesn't.
15:43	noonian	Morgawr: https://github.com/kumarshantanu/lein-exec
15:43	Morgawr	noonian: thanks!
15:44	melipone	hello! I have a (print ".") in a loop statement before the recur but it does not print. Changing that to println works but I don't want that. What to do?
15:45	joegallo_	print doesn't flush
15:45	joegallo_	you need to flush
15:46	melipone	ha! thanks
15:47	TimMc	There
15:47	TimMc	There's also flush-on-newline, incidentally.
15:47	TimMc	It's not quite what you're asking about, but it's worth knowing that it exists.
15:47	melipone	TimMc: thanks
15:48	TimMc	(I don't think you can test it in the REPL, since the REPL seems to call flush...)
15:48	dnolen	piranha: used to be quite hard, now you can use source maps
15:49	dnolen	jonasen: yes, but CLJS compilation model is a bit trickier because of things like browser REPL where you don't currently consistently know what has been defined
15:52	jonasen	dnolen: yeah, I'm sure there are good reasons. That's why I said "in general" :)
15:54	Morgawr	best way to remove all odd positions in an array?
15:54	Morgawr	like I have [1 2 3 4 5] and I want to have [2 4] (content doesn't matter, it's the index that matters)
15:55	jonasen	dnolen: When are you planning a new cljs release?
15:56	jonasen	any blocking issues?
15:56	Morgawr	oh, looks like I want take-nth
15:56	TimMc	melipone: Cancel that, you can test it in the REPL... I just made the mistake of using Thread directly, which doesn't convey out.
15:56	sroy	hi, new to clojure and I have a "import" question if anyone would like to help me
15:56	TimMc	(def nf (future (binding [flush-on-newline false] (loop [] (Thread/sleep 500) (println "foo") (recur)))))
15:56	dnolen	jonasen: not really, probably later in the week, did you land a change that cljsfiddle really needs or something? the alias thing?
15:57	TimMc	And then run (flush) after a few seconds.
15:57	melipone	TimMc: ok
15:57	jonasen	nah, no hurry.
15:58	jonasen	I did notice the alias issue there but it's not a big thing
15:58	jcromart_	Could I dispatch a multimethod based on set membership?
15:59	jcromart_	it's a little messy, I'll admit
15:59	scriptor	looking at gensym, is the heart of its implementation based on AtomicInteger and incrementing it every time it's called?
16:01	Fer__	jcromart_: you can dispatch on anything! :P
16:01	jcromart_	I've kind of got it going now
16:01	jcromart_	but I mean can I specify a dispatch value and test if that value is a member of a set?
16:01	jcromart_	It's potentially ambiguous
16:01	jcromart_	which is a bit troubling
16:02	namccarty	scriptor: http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/gensym
16:02	coventry	scriptor: That's how I read it. Interesting that there's no checking for collision with existing symbols.
16:02	namccarty	expand the source fold
16:02	scriptor	namccarty: yeah, I know how to use clojuredocs
16:02	Fer__	jcromart_: Sorry. I'm not following.
16:02	scriptor	I was looking at RT.java
16:02	Fer__	dispatch values are functions
16:03	namccarty	It does indeed look like it has an atomic integer it is incrementing
16:03	jcromart_	Fer__: functions that return values, which must "isa?" the dispatch value in a defmethod
16:04	scriptor	coventry: that surprised me too, maybe they get around it with the prefixing
16:06	Creap	I have a seq of functions that I want to apply to each item in a seq (the seq is a line-seq from a BufferedReader). I currently have (doseq [line (map parse-line lines)] (doseq [cb cbs] (cb line))))
16:06	coventry	jcromart_: You could probably get the effect you're looking for by representing the sets in (derive) relationships. Then you would get errors when the relationship was ambiguous.
16:06	Creap	I just have a feeling there is a more Clojure:ish way, this is my second day with Clojure..
16:07	coventry	Creap: (apply juxt cbs)?
16:07	coventry	That will generate an unused vector of the results, though.
16:07	Creap	and the seq is lazy so it would be a no-op?
16:09	Creap	I noticed my first attempts were basically imperative programming within let macros, so now I'm making another attempt trying to dig into the list processing
16:09	coventry	No, ((apply juxt cbs) line) should be eager.
16:11	ToxicFrog	(->> lines (map parse-lines) (map (apply juxt cbs)) ?
16:11	TimMc	&[(gensym) (gensym)]
16:11	lazybot	⇒ [G__85825 G__85826]
16:11	TimMc	&[(gensym) (gensym)]
16:11	lazybot	⇒ [G__85836 G__85837]
16:11	ToxicFrog	(doc apply)
16:11	clojurebot	"([f args] [f x args] [f x y args] [f x y z args] [f a b c d ...]); Applies fn f to the argument list formed by prepending intervening arguments to args."
16:11	TimMc	&(let [g (gensym)] [g (= g 'G__85847)])
16:11	lazybot	⇒ [G__85847 true]
16:11	ToxicFrog	Oh wait, juxt is not comp
16:12	TimMc	coventry: ^ Clojure's genysm just isn't very good.
16:12	Creap	what do you mean with "not comp"
16:13	ToxicFrog	Creap: given a line line and a set of callbacks f g h, do you want [(f line) (g line) (h line)], or (h (g (f line)))?
16:13	Creap	the former
16:14	ToxicFrog	Oh, then you do want juxt. Ignore my confusion!
16:14	TimMc	Extra credit: Come up with f, g, h such that (= ((comp f g h) 5) ((juxt f g h) 5))
16:15	ToxicFrog	I think (->> lines (map parse-lines) (map (apply juxt cbs)) will actually do what you want, then.
16:15	hyPiRion	TimMc: is that actually doable?
16:15	TimMc	I dunno.
16:16	Creap	I'm writing an IRC program, I just call this function with a seq of callbacks that will be invoked for each line, from a line-seq
16:16	TimMc	hyPiRion: I think it is.
16:16	hyPiRion	yeah, I can see a way now I think
16:17	coventry	,(let [g (gensym) d (Integer/parseInt (re-find #"\d+" (str g))) g2 (symbol (str "G__" (inc d)))] ((juxt identity eval) `(let [~g2 (gensym)] ~g2)))
16:17	clojurebot	#<Exception java.lang.Exception: SANBOX DENIED>
16:17	coventry	Bah. My output was [(clojure.core/let [G__25216 (clojure.core/gensym)] G__25216) G__25218]
16:18	TimMc	&(let [f #(if (= % 7) [:hi 6 6] :hi) g inc h inc] (= ((comp f g h) 5) ((juxt f g h) 5)))
16:18	lazybot	⇒ true
16:18	TimMc	BAM
16:18	TimMc	^ Spoiler, sorry.
16:19	TimMc	As for the general case... I think I have an answer for that as well.
16:19	Creap	ToxicFrog: It just returns nil, I probably need doseq?
16:20	coventry	"Gensym collisions can be engineered." https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/clojure/-054P1u5M7o
16:20	mtp	"doseq uis"
16:20	scriptor	hah
16:21	coventry	Creap: Wrap it in (doall)
16:21	scriptor	yeah, I guess the only concern is that eventually someone might write a convoluted enough of a mess and runs into this problem
16:21	llasram	Creap: OR `dorun` if you don't care about the return values
16:22	Creap	yeah, that worked. cool
16:22	scriptor	I guess using a combination of microtime and a random integer would be a bit safer
16:22	hyPiRion	TimMc: Find f, g, h such that (= ((comp f g h) x) ((juxt f g h) x) [x x x])
16:22	scriptor	anyway, good to know I can implement gensym in my lisp in a minute
16:23	hyPiRion	not sure if that's possible
16:23	TimMc	hyPiRion: Oh, that's actually easy. I think.
16:23	hyPiRion	TimMc: not sure what h may be there.
16:26	TimMc	Oh, nope. So much for that.
16:27	`cbp	you can if it's [[x] [x] [x]] instead :P
16:28	hyPiRion	well, there's one way I think
16:29	coventry	Oops, there are a few more gensyms in the construction of that form, I guess. Have to inc it a couple more times: ##(let [g (->> (gensym) str (re-find #"\d+") (#(Integer/parseInt %)) inc inc inc (str "G__") symbol)] ((juxt identity eval) `(let [~g (gensym)] ~g)))
16:29	lazybot	java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! eval is bad!
16:32	TimMc	hyPiRion: You're gonna like this...
16:32	TimMc	&(let [gross (reify Object (equals [_ x] true)), f #(if (identical? % gross) [gross gross gross] gross), g (constantly gross), h (constantly gross), x 5/19] (= ((comp f g h) x) ((juxt f g h) x) [x x x]))
16:32	lazybot	⇒ true
16:32	`cbp	LOL
16:32	hyPiRion	(inc TimMc)
16:32	lazybot	⇒ 49
16:33	llasram	(inc TimMc)
16:33	lazybot	⇒ 50
16:33	scriptor	&(gensym)
16:33	lazybot	⇒ G__86045
16:34	scriptor	&(gensym)
16:34	lazybot	⇒ G__86055
16:34	scriptor	hmm
16:34	hyPiRion	&(let [sym (gensym) h #(with-meta % {sym true}) g #(if (-> % meta sym) (constantly %) %) f #(if (fn? %) [(%) (%) (%)] %) x 'foo] (= ((comp f g h) x) ((juxt f g h) x) [x x x]))
16:34	TimMc	(inc amalloy) ; who I learned that trick from, I think
16:34	lazybot	⇒ true
16:34	lazybot	⇒ 72
16:34	hyPiRion	doesn't work for non iobjs though
16:39	TimMc	hyPiRion: g can be identity, and f can take g's dispatch and avoid wrapping stuff in fns
16:40	TimMc	That allows you to use a pipeline of n >= 2 fns.
16:40	hyPiRion	wehey, generalized.
16:46	technomancy	Morgawr: not sure if you found this, but a better solution than lein-exec is to use clojure.main
16:46	technomancy	lein run -m clojure.main/main -i somefile.clj
16:46	Morgawr	technomancy: ah, that's nice too
16:46	Morgawr	thanks
16:58	JanxSpirit	what is the current recommended toolset for building REST services in Clojure? I'm thinking something lightweight like Scalatra, without MVC or presentation at all - Json, auth, content negotiation etc would all be great
17:01	TimMc	hyPiRion: I had been thinking of using state and blocking, but juxt and comp evaluate the fns in opposing orders.
17:01	TimMc	It would also be hard to achieve state separation.
17:02	noonian	JanxSpirit: on top of ring you could use compojure for routing, friend for auth, and there are ring middlewares for serializing different formats based on the content-type
17:03	JanxSpirit	noonian - cool…so it's sort of mix and match the pieces you want. Are there any projects similar to Dropwizard for Java that group together the commonly used bits so they all play nicely?
17:04	JanxSpirit	maybe it's not as much of a consideration for Clojure?
17:04	katratxo	JanxSpirit: http://clojure-liberator.github.io/liberator/ ?
17:04	noonian	JanxSpirit: I've never heard of Dropwizard, but I think luminus does something like that http://www.luminusweb.net/
17:06	noonian	JanxSpirit: luminus is basically a minimal project that has already put the pieces together, for what you want you would probably want to take out the code and dependencies for templating and what not
17:06	noonian	JanxSpirit: but for getting started, it might be wiser to start from something simpler like the compojure_app template
17:06	noonian	and just add in libraries as you need them
17:06	JanxSpirit	looks like a similar idea - thanks noonian and katratxo
17:07	JanxSpirit	sounds like a plan
17:07	JanxSpirit	is there a standard json serializer? or a wrapper for Jackson or something? Not asking anyone to Google for me - I've looked around - just wondering if there's one that's preferred
17:09	xeqi	JanxSpirit: I perfer chesire
17:09	xeqi	https://github.com/dakrone/cheshire
17:10	JanxSpirit	thanks xeqi
17:12	technomancy	"Discerning Clojure programmers prefer the freshness and exciting taste of Cheshire-brand JSON products."
17:13	danlarkin	...it's toasted
17:16	noonian	yeah, cheshire's got a sweet name and its api is a superset of the other json library thats in use think
17:18	joegallo_	cheshire's a pretty good library, but that dakrone is a bit of a pill -- not the nicest guy you'll ever meet
17:19	joegallo_	jk, he's totally the nicest guy you'll ever meet
17:19	dakrone	:)
17:20	ThePawnBreak	how can I check whether a string is a digit/number?
17:23	joegallo_	,(every? #(Character/digit % 10) "123")
17:23	clojurebot	true
17:23	joegallo_	,(every? #(Character/digit % 10) "12a")
17:23	clojurebot	true
17:23	joegallo_	that's surprising...
17:24	coventry	,(binding [read-eval false] (number? (read-string "1e10")))
17:24	clojurebot	true
17:24	coventry	,(binding [read-eval false] (number? (read-string "foo")))
17:24	clojurebot	false
17:24	ThePawnBreak	(remove number? "12gigi23")
17:24	ThePawnBreak	(\1 \2 \g \i \g \i \2 \3) -- could someone explain what's happening here?
17:24	joegallo_	ah, it returns the digits, not a boolean
17:24	noonian	,(#(try (Double. %) (catch Exception e nil)) "17")
17:24	clojurebot	noonian: excusez-moi
17:24	joegallo_	,(every? #(Character/isDigit %) "123")
17:24	clojurebot	true
17:24	joegallo_	,(every? #(Character/isDigit %) "12a")
17:24	clojurebot	false
17:24	noonian	,(#(try (Double. %) (catch Exception e nil)) "17")
17:24	clojurebot	noonian: Titim gan éirí ort.
17:24	noonian	hmm
17:24	ThePawnBreak	,(remove number? "12gigi23")
17:24	clojurebot	(\1 \2 \g \i \g ...)
17:25	ThePawnBreak	this is so awesome :)
17:25	joegallo_	ThePawnBreak: none of them are numbers, all of them are characters ;)
17:25	noonian	,((fn [n] (try (Double. n) (catch Exception e nil))) "17")
17:25	clojurebot	noonian: excusez-moi
17:25	noonian	lol, why doesn't clojurebot like me?
17:25	noonian	,(+ 2 2)
17:25	clojurebot	4
17:25	noonian	,(Double "7")
17:25	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Expecting var, but Double is mapped to class java.lang.Double>
17:25	noonian	,(Double. "7")
17:25	clojurebot	7.0
17:25	noonian	,(try (Double. "7"))
17:25	clojurebot	7.0
17:26	noonian	,(try (Double. "7") (catch Exception e nil))
17:26	clojurebot	noonian: Huh?
17:26	noonian	,(try (Double. "7") (catch Exception e true))
17:26	clojurebot	noonian: Gabh mo leithscéal?
17:26	noonian	doesn't like catch
17:27	seangrov`	Is there still no built-in deep-merge for maps??
17:27	lazybot	seangrov`: Uh, no. Why would you even ask?
17:27	ThePawnBreak	how can I get a string's length?
17:27	noonian	(count "1 2 3")
17:27	noonian	,(count "1 2 3")
17:27	clojurebot	5
17:27	seangrov`	Jesus, lazybot is uppity today
17:27	awalker	,(remove (set (map char (range 48 58))) "12gigi23")
17:27	clojurebot	(\g \i \g \i)
17:28	TEttinger	,(apply str (remove #(Character/isDigit %) "alpha123beta"))
17:28	clojurebot	"alphabeta"
17:28	ThePawnBreak	here's what I came up with:
17:28	ThePawnBreak	(defn digit? [s]
17:28	ThePawnBreak	(if (> (count s) 1)
17:28	ThePawnBreak	false
17:28	ThePawnBreak	(number? (read-string s))))
17:28	jared314	can anyone point me to the source of clojure.core/import* ?
17:29	TEttinger	ThePawnBreak, that will return true for 42
17:29	ThePawnBreak	I only care about strings
17:29	coventry	ThePawnBreak: You'll need some exception handling for the reader complaining about unreadable forms.
17:30	coventry	,(read-string "(aonthun"))
17:30	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
17:30	ThePawnBreak	TEttinger: nope, it doesn't work at all for 42; count doesn't work on long
17:30	ThePawnBreak	how the heck isn't this function in a library?
17:31	nathanic	,(re-matches #"\d" "4")
17:31	clojurebot	"4"
17:31	TEttinger	sorry, "42"
17:31	joegallo_	maybe it's a less useful function than you think it is ;)
17:31	coventry	Also, there was something about the reader being insecure earlier in the year, even with read-eval turned off.
17:31	hiredman	http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/lang/Character.html#isDigit%28char%29
17:31	joegallo_	or your definition of library is too narrow, as hiredman is pointing out
17:32	technomancy	hiredman: I... wow.
17:32	technomancy	watch out for those Devanagari digits
17:32	technomancy	they get you every time
17:32	amalloy	TimMc: what the hell is this thing you're giving me credit for?
17:33	hiredman	technomancy: watch this
17:33	dnolen	jared314: you need to look in Compiler.java at ImportExpr
17:33	hiredman	,(Long/parseLong "३")
17:33	clojurebot	3
17:34	jared314	dnolen: thank you
17:34	TimMc	&(.getPort (java.net.URL. "http://google.com:६"))
17:34	lazybot	⇒ 6
17:34	TimMc	technomancy: ^
17:34	technomancy	oh dear
17:34	TimMc	Problem?
17:35	TimMc	amalloy: The reify-equals-constantly-true thing. You mentioned it in the context of cheat-y 4clojure answers.
17:35	amalloy	ah
17:36	TimMc	You inspired me to use it in production code!
17:36	TimMc	(Kidding.)
17:37	TEttinger	,(re-matches #"\p{Nd}" "\u0966")
17:37	clojurebot	"?"
17:37	bitemyapp	hiredman: so...it's unicode aware?
17:37	TEttinger	##(re-matches #"\p{Nd}" "3")
17:37	lazybot	⇒ "3"
17:40	tm3da	Hello, can anyone explain me why the following code throws StackOverflowError?
17:40	tm3da
17:40	tm3da	(defn my-fn [a b]
17:40	tm3da	(swap! a #(assoc % :out [b]))
17:40	tm3da	(swap! b #(assoc % :in [a])))
17:40	tm3da
17:40	tm3da	(my-fn (atom {}) (atom {}))
17:40	mtp	because it overflows the stack
17:41	mtp	can you examine the backtrace and come up with an explanation as to why that might happen?
17:41	TEttinger	ThePawnBreak, you would probably want to use (fn [s] (re-matches #"\p{Nd}" s)) for strings, or (fn [c] (Character/isDigit c)) for chars.
17:42	TEttinger	both are unicode-aware.
17:42	tm3da	I will try.
17:42	TEttinger	tm3da, use a pastebin for the stack trace?
17:42	coventry	For safely reading numbers, this looks pretty cool: http://stackoverflow.com/a/2651056/1941213
17:42	gfredericks	tm3da: I'll give you a hint; that code executes without overflowing the stack
17:45	ThePawnBreak	TEttinger: thanks
17:45	TEttinger	I just should say, I have never used \p{Nd} before, but damn the whole \p set looks useful
17:46	TEttinger	they're listed here http://www.regular-expressions.info/unicode.html
17:46	TEttinger	oh never mind, recommending \p{N} instead.
17:47	Raynes	technomancy: Just got an email from a Sonian recruiter. Nostalgia.
17:47	coventry	There's also clojure.tools.reader.impl.commons/match-number.
17:47	technomancy	Raynes: you're a hot commodity
17:47	Raynes	technomancy: Well, I'm pretty sure it's random based on this guy seeing how many Clojure projects I have. :P
17:48	technomancy	Raynes: (sort-by (comp count :repos) (map tentacles/get-repos users)) ; clearly
17:48	Raynes	technomancy: Clearly.
17:49	technomancy	tentacles is some good stuff
17:49	Raynes	technomancy: I doubt I'd be a first choice, given that one of their engineers really doesn't like me very much. :P
17:49	TEttinger	##[(re-matches #"\p{N}" "⁶") (re-matches #"\p{Nd}" "⁶")]
17:49	lazybot	⇒ ["⁶" nil]
17:50	Raynes	Possibly two.
17:50	TEttinger	Raynes, I don't dislike you in the slightest!
17:50	Raynes	<3
17:51	technomancy	Raynes: but have they considered http://p.hagelb.org/riker.gif?
17:51	Raynes	Once or twice.
17:52	Raynes	TEttinger: What's your github username?
17:52	TEttinger	tommyettinger , it's a mess
17:52	TEttinger	lots of old projects
17:52	TEttinger	lots of languages though
17:53	TEttinger	it doesn't have all my little scripts I write for utility, which are all clojure these days
17:54	technomancy	Raynes: weird; you mention recruiters and I cehck my mail fie minutes later and there are two recruiter emails in it
17:54	technomancy	are they in cahoots?
17:54	bitemyapp	technomancy: the fire rises
17:55	technomancy	oh haha; one of them actually is Sonian
17:55	technomancy	welp.gif
17:56	yedi	has anyone played around with websockets in clojure
17:56	s4muel	i can't stop laughing at that riker pic.
18:00	tm3da	TEttinger: I've posted it here http://pastebin.com/Ep0Tqciw but still have no idea why is it happening.
18:01	je	yedi: only a little but that was using Immutant: http://immutant.org/ (se two latest news entries)
18:03	`cbp`	tm3da: you are creating a circular reference
18:04	cemerick	technomancy: it seems to be making the rounds
18:08	tm3da	`cbp`: I know I'm trying to have some graph structure in which each node knows its parent and its children and it has some cycles in it. Is there a better way to represent it?
18:08	dcunit3d	i have a ui namespace where i want certain elements to redraw based on the value of atoms in another namespace. whats the best way to do that?
18:09	dottedmag	How do the objects which are not Clojure functions nor Java functions work as functions? (such as :keyword in function position during evaluation).
18:09	noonian	.(fn? :foo)
18:09	noonian	,(fn? :foo)
18:09	clojurebot	false
18:09	ucb	dottedmag: IIRC they implement IFn
18:09	noonian	,(callable? :foo)
18:09	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: callable? in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
18:10	dottedmag	,(ifn? :foo)
18:10	clojurebot	true
18:10	dottedmag	I see.
18:10	dottedmag	ucb: thanks
18:10	noonian	ah, thanks
18:13	klokbask_	core.async question: how do I cancel the process created by a go expression? the return value is the channel and not the process, as I understand it.
18:13	gfredericks	,((reify clojure.lang.IFn (invoke [me a b c d] (+ c d))) 1 2 3 4)
18:13	clojurebot	7
18:13	gfredericks	dottedmag: ^
18:14	`cbp	tm3da: what you did is okish just don't try to print it :)
18:15	`cbp	tm3da: try using a deftype for the same results but more idiomatic
18:15	tm3da	`cbp: thank you! It didn't occur to me that it can be caused by printing :)
18:18	dottedmag	gfredericks: and reify creates new object confirming to protocol(s)/interface(s) specified, right?
18:22	tm3da	Just out of my curiosity is in clojure a way how to print cyclic structures like it is in Common Lisp (print-circle)?
18:24	`cbp	tm3da: print-level maybe
18:24	nDuff	tm3da: If the CL printer emits something its reader can process back to the same structure, then no.
18:24	nDuff	tm3da: ...but your question assumes CL knowledge not everyone here has.
18:24	indigo	coventry: Those guys replied and changed the channel name
18:25	tbaldridge	klokbask_: you can't cancel processes. You could provide a channel and then have the process alt! on the channel, and exit early if it closes.
18:28	tm3da	`cbp: thanks
18:28	dcunit3d	la
18:28	dcunit3d	woops
18:31	tm3da	nDuff: yes, I should have formulated the question this way: Is in clojure way to print a cyclic structure? The CL part was only to better explain myself.
18:31	nDuff	tm3da: again, are you printing it for human consumption, or consumption by the reader?
18:32	nDuff	tm3da: which is to say, does it need to round-trip?
18:32	nDuff	...if you need round-tripping, I believe the answer is "no".
18:32	tm3da	nDuff: just for human consumption
18:33	nDuff	tm3da: ...so, first, it's actually tricky to get a cyclic structure in Clojure; we don't have cons cells here.
18:34	TimMc	At least not mutable cons cells.
18:34	nDuff	tm3da: ...beyond that, the answer `cbp gave you was on-point (in terms of limiting recursion depth).
18:35	nDuff	It's not a great answer, but, well, it's not a common situation.
18:37	tm3da	nDuff: thank you. I've just made it work with print-level :)
18:48	technomancy	cyclic structures are technically possible with laziness, but you basically have to go out of your way to make them
19:05	no7hing	when i have multiple implemented protocols in a namespace, want one of them instantiated and def'ed in said namespace - what is the smartest way to call the functions on that instance from other namespaces?
19:07	noonian	no7hing: you should just be able to call them and the protocol's dispatch should call the correct implmentation
19:08	noonian	you have to require the namespace with the protocol definition
19:08	hyPiRion	You don't need mutable cons cells to get cyclic structures though, but you need unbound variables at least.
19:16	scriptor	https://github.com/clojure/tools.emitter.jvm
19:16	scriptor	hmmmmmmm
19:16	scriptor	am I late in everyone talking about this?
19:16	no7hing	@noonian this is the gist to my question https://gist.github.com/mhaemmerle/6893036
19:19	no7hing	i want to encapsulate the service behind namespace 'a' in the gist without a client needing to care about a concrete instance
19:19	noonian	no7hing: I commented on the gist, you need to explicitly implement the P protocol in your deftype
19:19	no7hing	obviously line 21 is the exact opposite
19:19	no7hing	sry, forgot that
19:19	noonian	I think the dynamic var part just makes it more confusing
19:21	no7hing	maybe it's (my) the wrong take on it and i should just ditch protocols here
19:21	noonian	no7hing: I think the deftype is also missing a vector of fields
19:22	no7hing	sorry for supplying such a bad gist, i just wanted to illustrate the point behind the setup
19:23	noonian	no worries, I think what you are doing is fine, but from namespace b's perspective, it should just care about the functions described with the defprotocol
19:24	noonian	instead of the dynamic var I'd just write functions that operate on some instance, and then whichever instance (an instance of Foo or Bar in this case) is passed in will be the one whos implementaion is used
19:25	noonian	you can also use extend-protocol to give implementations of your protocol for already existing type, like clojure maps
19:26	no7hing	but if i want to work with that same instance from multiple namespaces, to stay with the example e.g. from (ns c), then i'd have to store it somewhere
19:26	noonian	no7hing: you very rarely have store things like that
19:27	noonian	normally, in (ns c) you would declare other functions, and whichever namespace you do stuff from you would require those functions from a, b, and c and then call them passing in a specific instance
19:28	noonian	(def foo (Foo.)) (fn-from-ns-b foo) (fb-from-ns-c foo)
19:29	no7hing	in this case it's a service-wrapper that's used from multiple places
19:32	noonian	do you have to create your instance at runtime because or credentials or something? I usually use an atom or dynamic var for the credentials in those cases and still make the object instances manually using those credentials
19:33	noonian	it would probably work the way you are doing it, but I still try to stay away from alter-var-root and using (binding [blah ...] ...) instead where I can
19:34	no7hing	based on the configuration it would use either of the implementations - so at runtime
19:35	no7hing	i would write small wrapper functions that pass in the def'ed instance, but i thought there might be a better way
19:36	no7hing	the way i got it in clojure land is that it's personal preference if an instance of e.g. a db driver is passed out to the user or wrapped inside the driver
19:36	no7hing	as in https://github.com/michaelklishin/welle/blob/master/src/clojure/clojurewerkz/welle/core.clj#L22 for example
19:39	noonian	yeah, although like in that example you usually set it to something concrete from a function or using a binding form (or macro that expands to one), instead of calling alter-var-root inline in your library code
19:39	noonian	the alter-var-root won't affect other threads though, so make sure to call it before you spawn them
19:40	no7hing	are you sure about the last part?
19:40	no7hing	i thought binding would convert to a thread-local
19:42	no7hing	thanks for your extensive help!
19:43	noonian	no7hing: yep, Vars are thread local except for the initial root binding I believe
19:44	noonian	no7hing: if you want it to work across pools then you could use an atom instead
19:44	noonian	er, across threads
19:53	no7hing	thx
20:51	Frozenlock	Any advice on dealing with multiple domains with compojure?
20:53	xeqi	Frozenlock: what do you want to do with them?
20:55	Frozenlock	Well I'm hosting a website with compojure. Not really hard... run the server and forward traffic to the given port. But with multiple domains... it must be on a single compojure instance?
20:58	xeqi	are you wanting to serve the same site on multiple domains, or have multiple domains point to the same compojure app but be served different things?
20:59	Frozenlock	Different things.
21:00	Frozenlock	ie I can't just run another server, because the port 80 and 443 are already taken by the first one.
21:01	xeqi	If I was going to build an architecture this way, I'd use nginx, let it check the server name, and then forward to the right compojure app
21:02	xeqi	but you could check :server-name in the request and dispatch that way inside the compojure app
21:03	Frozenlock	Ah, I'll look nginx, thanks!
21:03	clojurebot	Cool story bro.
21:06	ddellacosta	Frozenlock: I've done it the latter way xeqi describes, with middleware, but I suspect getting the web server to handle it is a better solution.
21:06	Frozenlock	ddellacosta: Yeah, it would even give me the opportunity to try the emacs webserver :p
21:19	akurilin	Am I correct to believe that you cannot do a comparison between a ratio and a double without explicitly coercing the former?
21:19	akurilin	Or I guess there's the == operator
21:20	akurilin	Although the docs say that = should also compare in a type-independent manner
21:25	akurilin	Am I interpreting the docs wrong?
21:27	lunk	,(= 5/2 2.5)
21:27	clojurebot	false
21:28	gfredericks	akurilin: slightly
21:28	gfredericks	= is type independent, but it won't compare exact numeric types to inexact numeric types
21:28	gfredericks	the type independence refers to e.g., comparing longs and bigints, or lists and vectors
21:29	akurilin	gfredericks, I'm just reading "compares numbers and collections in a type-independent manner" and == says "if nums all have the equivalent value (type-independent)"
21:29	gfredericks	the distinction there does not sound obvious
21:29	akurilin	gfredericks, I get what you're saying though.
21:29	lunk	,(== 5/2 2.5)
21:29	clojurebot	true
21:30	akurilin	gfredericks, so I'll just use == whenever I know I'm comparing non-integers from now on
21:30	akurilin	or at least one of the sides is a non-integer
21:30	gfredericks	another difference is == can crash
21:31	gfredericks	,(== 3 nil)
21:31	clojurebot	#<NullPointerException java.lang.NullPointerException>
21:31	gfredericks	if you don't use numbers
21:31	akurilin	That's fair. I like crashes.
21:31	gfredericks	:)
21:47	logic_prog	how big is clojure-mode + paredit + nrepl?
21:47	logic_prog	I'm trying to understand why all efforts to rewrite an emacs-like editor in clojure has failed
21:48	indigo	logic_prog: Emacs is too big to fail
21:49	epichero	Because nobody wants such a specific editor, efforts to write a new editor are huge efforts and it takes a community to flourish
21:49	logic_prog	why does things liek eclipse, netbeans, intellij, and the such all have builtin editors then?
21:50	epichero	Because they have huge communities and millions in budget
21:50	logic_prog	yeah; but everyhing I've read
21:50	logic_prog	said clojure progs are 100x more producitive than java progs
21:50	epichero	Cool story
21:51	epichero	There are relatively few clojure programmers
21:51	epichero	Take everything with a grain of salt
21:53	uvtc	logic_prog, I think there's a perception that Emacs is difficult. In reality, it's may be difficult to program, but it's pretty usable right OOTB. You just need to learn some key combos. I wrote up a little 10-minute tutorial article, if you're interested: <http://www.unexpected-vortices.com/clojure/10-minute-emacs-for-clojure.html>.
21:53	uvtc	s/it's may be/it may be/
21:54	epichero	i don't like emacs myself, but i have tuned evil mode and written hooks so i do it my own way
21:57	epichero	If you had a good team you might be able to crowdfund an emacs rewrite.
22:02	uvtc	Many have tried to rewrite Emacs in their language of choice ... so many, but none has succeeded.
22:02	arrdem	uvtc: yet. none have succeeded yet.
22:03	uvtc	arrdem, You're supposed to say, "tried and failed?" And then I make with the Dune quote. :)
22:03	arrdem	uvtc: sorry... it's been a few years since I last read Dune and that slipped my mind
22:04	uvtc	Hehe. Sorry. Back to our regularly scheduled programming... :)
22:04	arrdem	uvtc: I see what you did there...
22:07	uvtc	I'd like to find an element of a sequence that matches some criteria. For instance, in a list of words, find the word that begins with "flu" ... is there a better way to do it than this: <https://gist.github.com/uvtc/6894751>?
22:08	arrdem	uvtc: there's clojure.string/prefix?
22:08	john2x	uvtc: nice write up. why do I want to run it as "emacs &"?
22:08	xeqi	&(some (partial (re-find #"^flu")) ["florian" "fluid" "flack" "flask" "flan"])
22:08	lazybot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.util.regex.Pattern cannot be cast to java.util.regex.Matcher
22:08	uvtc	john2x, To send it to the background, so that you get your terminal window back. :)
22:09	xeqi	bah
22:09	uvtc	ack ... AFK for a moment ... thanks for the help. brb
22:10	xeqi	&(some #(re-find #"^flu" %) ["florian" "fluid" "flack" "flask" "flan"])
22:10	lazybot	⇒ "flu"
22:10	xeqi	still bah
22:10	john2x	but why send it to the background where it can't be used?
22:10	arrdem	john2x: because he's implicitly using the X version of emacs I assume
22:12	john2x	oh ok. makes sense. I thought there was some cool trick I was missing. thanks :)
22:13	mtp	Text Editor Users Hate him
22:14	mtp	learn how to write clojure using this one weird trick
22:16	uvtc	xeqi, Oh, nice. Thanks!
22:17	uvtc	john2x, Right. I'm running `emacs` from by terminal window running bash. Maybe I'll have to clarify that --- I just figure that's what everyone uses. :)
22:17	uvtc	mtp, hehehe :)
22:20	TEttinger	xeqi: ##(some #(re-find #"^flu\w+" %) ["florian" "fluid" "flack" "flask" "flan"]) ?
22:20	lazybot	⇒ "fluid"
22:21	john2x	:D so I guess using the GUI/X version of emacs is much more common? (as opposed to vim where terminal/gvim users are pretty-much 50-50) uvtc's writeup makes me want to give emacs a 2nd try this weekend.
22:22	uvtc	TEttinger, Ah, right. I wanted the whole word. Thanks. :)
22:23	TEttinger	np
22:53	bergmark	I'm a bit of a clojure beginner and trying to debug a program. Is it expected that I get back nothing when I try to print the value of a lazy-sequence (such as the eturn from reduce)?
22:54	bergmark	Sorry I mean filter not reduce
22:54	amehta	bergmark: you might want to wrap the filter in a dosync
22:55	arrdem	,(doc dosync)
22:55	clojurebot	"([& exprs]); Runs the exprs (in an implicit do) in a transaction that encompasses exprs and any nested calls. Starts a transaction if none is already running on this thread. Any uncaught exception will abort the transaction and flow out of dosync. The exprs may be run more than once, but any effects on Refs will be atomic."
22:56	uvtc	amehta, You mean `doall`?
22:56	arrdem	uvtc: presumably...
22:56	amehta	uvtc: yeah thanks
22:57	arrdem	wow... pmap over map give me a 300x speedup 0.o
22:58	bergmark	Thanks to both of you. Its still printing nothing but presumably that means I've screwed up my filter pred.
22:59	amalloy	amehta: whoa, (dosync (filter ...) ...) is like never right, if that's what you're suggesting
22:59	uvtc	bergmark, one thing to keep in mind (which may or may not be relevant here), in the repl, expressions are evaluated eagerly --- since you presumably want to see what they evaluate to as you go. In your code, they are often lazy.
22:59	amalloy	oh, you said doall
22:59	Raynes	How to tell your friend has gotten into category theory: [18:51:53] relrod: Raynes: so a profunctor is a bifunctor that is contravariant in the first argument and covariant in the second. nod
22:59	amalloy	(doall x) prints the same as just x, for all x
23:00	amalloy	usually you just want to be sure to use a print function from the pr family, such as prn, rather than one from the print family, such as println
23:01	epichero	I like category theory in a way, i just don't like people who are really into it. It's like when mormons come to my door
23:01	epichero	They are good neighbors but i dont want to talk religion
23:01	bergmark	amalloy: Thanks, I'll give prn a shot as well.
23:02	TEttinger	what's the predicate, bergmark?
23:02	TEttinger	heck, the line would be nice
23:05	bergmark	prn seems to have done the trick. The filter was (filter #(= (get % "player_id") myId) state)
23:05	TEttinger	prn is just... pr with a newline?
23:05	bergmark	state is a seq of maps that were parsed from json, and I am trying to filter it to just the ones that applt to my id
23:06	bbloom	TEttinger: yup
23:06	Raynes	&(clojure.repl/source prn)
23:06	lazybot	⇒ Source not found nil
23:06	Raynes	$kill
23:06	lazybot	KILL IT WITH FIRE!
23:06	uvtc	Ah, because `prn` flushes on newline?
23:06	bbloom	$source prn
23:06	lazybot	prn is http://is.gd/Xx0wYU
23:06	bergmark	I was using println before, which apparently was not evaluating the lazy sequence?
23:06	Raynes	bbloom: lol
23:06	Raynes	bbloom: I forgot that even existed. Congratulations, you officially know more about my own bot than I do.
23:07	bbloom	Raynes: honestly, i wasn't sure WHICH bot was going to respond to that
23:07	TEttinger	,(prn [1 2 3])
23:07	clojurebot	[1 2 3]\n
23:07	TEttinger	,(println [1 2 3])
23:07	clojurebot	[1 2 3]\n
23:07	TEttinger	hm
23:07	Raynes	bbloom: best bot
23:07	bbloom	$lastseen bestbot
23:07	bbloom	$seen bestbot
23:07	lazybot	I have never seen bestbot.
23:07	Raynes	$seen bbloom
23:07	lazybot	bbloom was last seen talking on #clojure 1 second and 525 milliseconds ago.
23:07	bbloom	1.525 seconds ago?
23:07	bbloom	feels like only yesterday
23:07	TEttinger	it's not hard to have that say what the last thng said was
23:08	Raynes	wat
23:08	Raynes	$logout
23:08	lazybot	You've been logged out.
23:08	Raynes	$reload
23:08	lazybot	Raynes: It is not the case that you don't not unhave insufficient privileges to do this.
23:08	Raynes	<3 that text.
23:08	bbloom	i do not not don't can't read that not won't
23:09	TEttinger	with some small changes, my bot does: TEttinger3 was last seen talking on #rgrd 3 hours and 9 minutes ago: after it timed out it responded again
23:09	bbloom	please note: i have made no effort to have the correct number of negations in that sentence
23:09	TEttinger	if you want the source I have it lying around
23:11	ucb	is it possible to intern a var with meta-data?
23:12	bbloom	(doc alter-meta)
23:12	clojurebot	Cool story bro.
23:12	ucb	I've tried something like (intern ns 'name (with-meta Thing {...})) but it doesn't seem to work
23:12	bbloom	(doc alter-meta!)
23:12	clojurebot	"([iref f & args]); Atomically sets the metadata for a namespace/var/ref/agent/atom to be: (apply f its-current-meta args) f must be free of side-effects"
23:12	bbloom	(doc reset-meta!)
23:12	clojurebot	"([iref metadata-map]); Atomically resets the metadata for a namespace/var/ref/agent/atom"
23:12	bbloom	ucb: you can use those on #'some/var
23:13	TEttinger	Raynes: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11914692/seen.clj
23:13	ucb	bbloom: cool, will try with that. I was hoping I could directly intern a var with meta-data.
23:15	bbloom	ucb: i think you can… you just need to with-meta on the symbol
23:15	bbloom	(doc intern)
23:15	clojurebot	"([ns name] [ns name val]); Finds or creates a var named by the symbol name in the namespace ns (which can be a symbol or a namespace), setting its root binding to val if supplied. The namespace must exist. The var will adopt any metadata from the name symbol. Returns the var."
23:15	bbloom	ucb: note the last sentence
23:15	ucb	ooh
23:15	ucb	I've been doing it wrong then
23:17	ucb	bbloom: awesome. It worked. Thanks for making me notice the last sentence :)
23:17	indigo	(fire intern)
23:17	indigo	;P
23:22	bitemyapp	indigo: harsh
23:23	indigo	Hehe
23:23	indigo	I'm scared to put our intern's code into production
23:23	indigo	Even though he has an MS in CS
23:23	arrdem	indigo: just you try it...
23:28	Raynes	indigo: I'm younger than he is and have no degree. Want some code?
23:28	arrdem	Raynes: sometimes I'm really really jelly of that...
23:29	Raynes	Jelly of my degrelessness?
23:29	Raynes	degreelessness*
23:29	indigo	Raynes: I'm also younger than him and have an unrelated degree
23:29	Raynes	indigo: <3
23:29	indigo	But I guess that's why he gets to be the intern ;)
23:29	indigo	:D
23:29	Raynes	arrdem: It was really easy to no get a degree.
23:29	logic_prog	for clojure libraries, we have hiccup for HTML, and garden for CSS -- is there any standard library for outputting SVG ?
23:30	TEttinger	gah who keeps dropping these nodebots in here
23:30	Raynes	logic_prog: SVG is XML.
23:30	logic_prog	what does this mean?
23:31	Raynes	It means you probably want an XML library and not an SVG library. For example, data.xml
23:31	TEttinger	https://github.com/pallix/tikkba ?
23:31	Raynes	Sure, that works too.
23:32	TEttinger	also for Raynes' approach, http://www.learningclojure.com/2010/10/generating-xml-to-make-svg-vector.html
23:32	amalloy	bbloom: "atomically resets" is a strange phrase to use, in the docs for reset-meta!
23:33	Raynes	With the caveat that that article uses old contrib and thus isn't particularly useful.
23:34	TEttinger	http://liebke.github.io/analemma/ then :-)
23:34	bbloom	amalloy: why?
23:34	bbloom	(doc reset!)
23:34	clojurebot	"([atom newval]); Sets the value of atom to newval without regard for the current value. Returns newval."
23:34	amalloy	bbloom: what does "atomic" mean, in the context of "set this thing to x, ignoring what it was before"
23:35	bbloom	amalloy: i'd assume it implies that the metadata is a volatile or something like that
23:35	amalloy	like...you won't somehow end up with a corrupted pointer?
23:35	bbloom	isn't that a possibility in C? :-P
23:36	bbloom	heh: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/AReference.java#L16 i guess it's just a normal field :-P
23:36	bbloom	shrug
23:36	amalloy	well, i don't think any of the C standards address multithreading at all. so anything at all is possible
23:36	amalloy	c++11 does, but nothing before that
23:36	bbloom	my guess is alter-meta! was written first and reset-meta! was involved a copy paste of the doc string :-P
23:37	bbloom	copy paste: the original prototypical inheritance
23:44	uvtc	Ok. I see that, in the source for lein-exec, the leiningen.exec/deps function does indeed use pomegranate: <https://github.com/kumarshantanu/lein-exec/blob/master/src/leiningen/exec.clj>.
23:44	uvtc	Oooof. Sorry, wrong channel.