#clojure – 2013-10-04

2013-10-04

00:06	@technomancy	rousing round of torus pong at seajure tonight
00:22	ddellacosta	technomancy: jealous, sounds fun
00:22	ddellacosta	tho I have no idea what torus pong is.
00:23	uvtc	I think it may be a 3D version of concentric circle pong...
00:23	uvtc	:)
00:23	@technomancy	ddellacosta: http://pong.clojurecup.com
00:24	ddellacosta	ah, cool. :-)
00:24	ddellacosta	technomancy: thanks!
00:26	dobry-den	ddellacosta: i just ended up adding 'myfun = myproj.myns.myfun;'
00:26	ddellacosta	dobry-den: haha, there ya go. :-)
00:26	dobry-den	(reduce + (flatten coll)) works in clj but doesnt seem to work in js
00:26	uvtc	Wow. Didn't realize there were so many games created. Haven't been following the Clojure Cup. Neat.
00:27	uvtc	Lots listed at http://clojurecup.com/apps.html .
00:28	Foxboron	lol
00:28	Foxboron	i beat the pong game
00:28	Foxboron	i managed to get it in a perfect orbit
00:29	mullr	@dobry-den in cljs you mean? works for me…
00:29	mullr	ClojureScript:cljs.user> (reduce + (flatten [1 2 [3 4]]))
00:29	mullr	10
00:29	uvtc	agh! It's multiplayer!!
00:29	uvtc	And I stink! :)
00:30	@technomancy	ahaha
00:30	uvtc	Was alone the first time I tried it. :)
00:31	dobry-den	mullr: yeah, it works in my repl but not when i pass the compiled function an array
00:31	mullr	dorby-den: a JS array?
00:32	mullr	I'm not super good at cljs yet, but I'd be surprised if that wored
00:32	mullr	s/wored/worked/
00:33	CaptainLex	Is there a way I can ensure a string only contains ASCII characters?
00:33	ddellacosta	dobry-den: if you run it through js->cli?
00:34	mullr	ClojureScript:cljs.user> (seqable? (clj->js []))
00:34	mullr	false
00:34	ddellacosta	dobry-den: I'm not sure you're going to be do much with a vanilla JS array
00:34	uvtc	Argh! Veritas01! You've bested me for the last time!
00:34	ddellacosta	yah, exactly--it has to have that interface to use it with those functions in clojure.
00:35	frozenlock	uvtc: Everyone left :(
00:35	uvtc	:)
00:35	uvtc	Sorry. I wanted to get back to Dave Ray's speakerdeck slides. :)
00:42	@technomancy	heh https://github.com/uswitch/torus-pong/graphs/punch-card
00:42	@technomancy	looks about right
00:47	Raynes	Man, screw that asylum game.
00:47	Raynes	You can't win unless you're an asshole. :(
00:47	coventry	CaptainLex: ##(every? #(> 256 (int %)) "noй-ascii string") ##(every? #(> 256 (int %)) "ascii string")
00:47	lazybot	(every? (fn* [p1__16772#] (> 256 (in... ⇒ false
00:47	lazybot	(every? (fn* [p1__16773#] (> 256 (in... ⇒ true
00:47	Raynes	asylum.clojurecup.com
01:00	TEttinger	coventry, that still allows stuff like §
01:00	TEttinger	try 128?
01:00	TEttinger	^ CaptainLex
01:01	coventry	TEttinger: Oops. Thanks.
01:05	dobry-den	ddellacosta: duh, didn't even know about js->clj
01:05	dobry-den	ddellacosta: awesome
01:06	dobry-den	ddellacosta: i writing my own transformer with clojure.walk until i realized you were referring to a function
01:06	ddellacosta	dobry-den: yah, there is a lot there to help you out. But I'm sure you'd learn something by writing your own transformer. :-)
01:07	uvtc	More than meets the eye.
02:03	sm0ke	hello i have a function named join in one of the ns which also includes [clojure.string :as s] ..but still get conflict that join already belongs to clojure.string?
02:04	sm0ke	oh crap my fault
02:04	sm0ke	i put that in :use instead of :require
02:19	frozenlock	Is there a way to get a printable representation for a [B (byte?) object? I don't really care if I need to convert, I just want to print it...
02:23	`cbp	frozenlock: seq
02:24	frozenlock	Thanks!
02:27	yedi	that pong core.async post was sex
02:32	devn	hello all
02:32	devn	yedi: link?
02:37	frozenlock	If I want to add a method to a java class, is it with reify? (I'm trying to goole it, but I get mixed results with proxy, reify, defmethod, gen-class..)
02:37	yedi	devn: http://ragnard.github.io/2013/10/01/clojurecup-pong-async.html
02:37	Acio	counterclockwise cant seem to import jaqy.core because its defined a cljs
02:37	Acio	any ideas?
02:39	logic_prog	is there a way in clojure to smit out jvm bytecode directly?
02:39	logic_prog	i need to write some high performance clde in clojure; so I want toj ust straight target the jvm
02:40	frozenlock	Hmm... actually I might need to add an entire class.. nevermind
02:42	devn	What's that new clojure lib that uses core.logic for solving symbolic equations?
02:42	devn	nevermind, expresso
02:43	`cbp	logic_prog: wat
02:45	`cbp	logic_prog: you can choose to compile 'ahead of time' but clojure already compiles directly to bytecode
02:46	logic_prog	I want to write a DSl for writing java bytecode
02:46	logic_prog	for doing high perfomrnace numerics in java
02:47	logic_prog	I want to output http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_bytecode_instruction_listings
02:47	logic_prog	and have it run on the JVM
02:47	glosoli	Anyone had problems with nrepl server buffer not appearing in Emacs ?
02:48	logic_prog	does nrepl show up in ibuffer?
02:49	glosoli	logic_prog yes
02:49	glosoli	logic_prog: nrepl and error buffers are visible
02:49	logic_prog	(1) can you not open them or (2) when you open them there's no promjpt?
02:50	glosoli	logic_prog: They all work just fine
02:50	glosoli	except there is no server buffer
02:50	glosoli	:)
02:50	logic_prog	err, I type stuff into nrepl
02:50	logic_prog	if you can open nrepl buffer, what is the problem?
02:51	glosoli	logic_prog: Server logs were appearing in server buffer before :)
02:51	glosoli	I don't get to see any logs now..
02:51	logic_prog	what does server logs have to do with nrepl ?
02:51	devn	I don't suppose we have any expresso afficionados in the room, do we?
02:52	glosoli	logic_prog: NREPL SERVER logs :)
02:52	devn	I'd like to write something which, given [1, 2, 99, 98, 50, 12, 50], can find all of the pairs of numbers which are equal to 100
02:52	glosoli	logic_prog: There always was a separate buffer called nrepl-server
02:54	glosoli	logic_prog: nvm :) hide special buffers option messed up, so I just disabled it
02:57	logic_prog	rubber duck debugging for the win
03:06	hvesalai	devn: use partition to get the pairs
03:13	glosoli	how to trim all white space in a string ?
03:14	uvtc	glosoli: clojure.string/trim
03:15	glosoli	uvtc: it does not do that
03:16	glosoli	damn ;/
03:21	Apage43	glosoli, what exactly are you trying to do? Give a sample input/output
03:21	glosoli	Apage43: "370 626 8 9 7 5 5" should remove all spaces, currently I did replace on it
03:21	glosoli	to replace " " with ""
03:22	Apage43	(clojure.string/replace "370 626 8 9 7 5 5" #"\s+" "")
03:22	Apage43	,(clojure.string/replace "370 626 8 9 7 5 5" #"\s+" "")
03:22	clojurebot	"37062689755"
03:22	glosoli	Apage43: is it bad that I used " "
03:22	glosoli	instead of #"\s+"
03:22	glosoli	?
03:23	Apage43	actually " " should work fine there too
03:23	Apage43	,(clojure.string/replace "370 626 8 9 7 5 5" #" " "")
03:23	clojurebot	"37062689755"
03:23	rurumate	I just realized that Datomic is not FOSS software. I'm sure rms would not approve. What happened?
03:24	glosoli	Apage43 thanks
03:30	vmarcinko	hi, noob question - how to create (hash) map from sequence of 2-element vectors ?
03:30	Apage43	,(into {} [[:a 1] [:b 2]])
03:30	clojurebot	{:a 1, :b 2}
03:32	vmarcinko	hmm, thanx, and even better ,since I have a function that creates map entries in form of 2-element vector, is there some way to skip that, and directly create map entries ?
03:33	Apage43	you can, but most folks just use 2-element vectors, since they're pretty much interchangeable
03:34	Apage43	what may more may not make sense depending on your situation is to refactor it as building up a map with assoc
03:35	vmarcinko	thanx...actually my problem is that i'm trying to iterate over existing map, and transform it to a new map that has same keys but values are results of applying function on them, so I have (map my-transform-fn original-map), and this transform-fn takes original map entry and transforms it into vector, and I get seq of 2-tuples
03:35	Apage43	that is, instead of (into {} (map (fn [input] (stuff here to generate a kv pair)) some-collection))
03:35	Apage43	write
03:36	Apage43	(reduce (fn [m input] (assoc m key value)) {} input-collection))
03:36	Apage43	ah
03:37	vmarcinko	yeah, thanx, i got it...exactly my problem
04:51	chare	ok norm device coordinates make no sense in opengl, why does opengl switch from right hand to left hand coordinates when going to norm device coordinates
04:51	devn	hvesalai: partition is not the answer.
04:51	chare	need opengl expert to explain to me wtf is going on
04:51	devn	chare: ./join #opengl
04:51	chare	assholes won't explain
04:51	chare	so had to come here
04:52	devn	oh, yeah, that sounds about right
04:52	chare	devn just answer the question
04:52	devn	:)
04:52	devn	chare: well, where to begin? first: I don't know the answer to your question. second: that's a rude way to ask a question.
04:56	hvesalai	devn: how is it not the answer, (partition 2 1 foo), then just filter the ones where (reduce + ) is 10
04:57	devn	hvesalai: write out all of the integers from 0 to 10 which, when combined with one another sum to 10
04:57	devn	[5 5] for instance.
04:57	devn	partition 2 1 is not what i was asking for at all. im talking about using core.logic here for fun
04:58	clgv	devn: you can use `for`
04:58	devn	heh, you folks seem to be missing the point
04:58	devn	this problem is solved many ways, all of them pretty boring
04:58	clgv	devn: or `doseq` if you only want to print those numbers
04:58	devn	i want to do it using expresso
04:58	clgv	oh, I didnt see that since I just joined ;)
04:58	devn	oh, i didn't see that because i parts and joins turned off in my client :)
04:59	devn	i have*
04:59	clgv	but are you sure expresso is the right hammer for that nail?
04:59	devn	absolutely not
04:59	devn	it's just a fun problem
04:59	devn	an opportunity to play with expresso more than anything else
05:00	devn	i was thinking about using some combination of substitute, solve, and ex
05:00	clgv	you could do it with core.logic and its support for finite domains
05:00	devn	clgv: yeah, you might be right that i should just do it in core.logic, but sets in expresso could be cool
05:01	devn	again, just looking for an excuse to mess with expresso this evening :)
05:01	clgv	just parsing its readme for the first time ;)
05:02	clgv	summarizingly, it's for algebraic manipulation, solving equations and optimization?
05:02	devn	nod sounds about right
05:02	clgv	but your problem at hand does not really fit those topics
05:03	devn	no, it doesn't
05:03	devn	doesn't change the fact that it could be used to solve it :)
05:04	devn	practicality is of no concern to me right now
05:04	clgv	I'd be curious to see the solution if you manage to get a simple one, which I doubt with my current knowledge
05:05	devn	i imagine substituting values for an expression, mapping those substitutions across a range of values
05:06	clgv	ah ok substituting x with values in a suitable domain and then solving for y? it's debatable to call that "simple" ;)
05:06	devn	yeah, something like that
05:06	devn	there are also rewrite rules in expresso
05:06	devn	i bet those could be leveraged to good effect
05:08	hvesalai	devn: ah... you don't want adjacent pairs of list (what you get with partition) but combinations of size 2
05:08	devn	(map #(rule (ex (+ % ?&*)) :=> target-sum)
05:08	devn	or something like that clgv
05:08	clgv	oh who did include perl into this lib? :P
05:08	devn	haha
05:09	devn	hvesalai: check again. combinations does not include [5 5]
05:10	hvesalai	so what is it that you exactly want?
05:10	devn	hvesalai: i already have it :)
05:10	hvesalai	ok
05:10	clgv	hvesalai: the clojure way to solve it would be ##(for [i (range 11) j (range 11) :when (= (+ i j) 10)] [i j])
05:10	lazybot	⇒ ([0 10] [1 9] [2 8] [3 7] [4 6] [5 5] [6 4] [7 3] [8 2] [9 1] [10 0])
05:11	devn	,(let [coll (range 1 25), target 12, cnt (count coll)] (->> (for [a (range 0 cnt) b (range 1 cnt)] [(nth coll a) (nth coll b)]) (filter (fn [[x y]] (= target (+ x y))))))
05:11	clojurebot	([1 11] [2 10] [3 9] [4 8] [5 7] ...)
05:12	devn	which excludes [10 0], but yeah, clgv -- that's basically it
05:12	devn	there's another clever way
05:13	devn	,(let [sorted-coll (-> (range 25) sort), target 18] (loop [vs (range (count sorted-coll)) res {}] (let [v (first vs)] (if (get res (- v target)) res (recur (next vs) (assoc res v (- target v)))))))
05:13	clojurebot	{0 18, 1 17, 2 16, 3 15, 4 14, ...}
05:14	devn	could be written cleaner, but that's faster
05:15	devn	obviously no need for the sort there since im just using range, but if it were in a fn def and the inputs were in an unknown order it needs to be sorted
05:16	hvesalai	are you still talking about: "I'd like to write something which, given [1, 2, 99, 98, 50, 12, 50], can find all of the pairs of numbers which are equal to 100"
05:16	hvesalai	or some other thing?
05:17	devn	same thing
05:17	devn	i believe the above needs to be sorted, but i could be wrong on that now that i think about it
05:18	hvesalai	clgv: so how does your solution work for that input example
05:18	devn	in the above case i am trying to find all pairs of nums < 25 which = 18
05:18	clgv	hvesalai: place the given collection where the ranges are
05:18	hvesalai	but that's a completely different thing
05:19	devn	hvesalai: are you talking to me?
05:19	devn	clgv: are you jonathan?
05:19	devn	(sorry if i spelled that wrong)
05:20	clgv	devn: no
05:20	devn	k
05:20	devn	well, hi anyway! :)
05:20	clgv	hi :)
05:21	devn	algorithms are boring when they aren't written with love
05:21	devn	read, eval, print, love
05:29	devn	yogthos: how goes luminus?
06:27	dublindan	Hey, I'm trying to rewrite some code without using loop. Been away from clojure for a bit and am shaky on my sequences.
06:27	dublindan	Can someone help me rewrite this code in a more idiomatic form? http://paste2.org/tZdEh3hJ
06:31	lgs32a	i wonder what would be a small example problem/project to demonstrate the powers of my library state-node. https://github.com/lgrapenthin/state-node
06:34	ro_st	dublindan: http://paste2.org/ehHz47Ak
06:34	ro_st	(untested)
06:34	clgv	dublindan: ou can do that with `reduce-kv`
06:34	ro_st	… or just use reduce-kv
06:34	AimHere	dublindan howabout (defn foo [x y & args] (reduce (fn [r [a b]] (assoc r (x a) (y b))) {} (partition 2 args)))
06:34	clgv	or `reduce` if you do not build an initial map
06:34	AimHere	ro_st, args is a list, reduce-kv won't work well on that, it's list in, map out
06:35	clgv	oh well how about zipmap ^^
06:35	ro_st	that's the thing. foo is doing two things, qualifying a map and then using x y on the k v
06:35	ro_st	if instead the map was created separately, it's much simpler
06:36	clgv	(zipmap (->> args (take-nth 2) (map x)) (->> args rest (take-nth 2) (map y)))
06:36	ro_st	so many ways :-)
06:37	dublindan	ro_st: clgv: AimHere: thanks, I'll give those a look :)
06:41	dublindan	so.. which way would be the suggested way?
06:41	TEttinger	##((fn [a b & args] (into {} (map (fn [[x y]] [(a x) (b y)]) (partition 2 args)))) identity inc :a 1 :b 2 :c 3)
06:41	lazybot	⇒ {:a 2, :b 3, :c 4}
06:41	TEttinger	I don't think it _needs_ needs reduce
06:42	TEttinger	dublindan, whatever one makes sense to you
06:42	clgv	TEttinger: without redcue I'd prefer zipmap ;)
06:43	TEttinger	indeed, I just can't read zipmap yet
06:43	dublindan	Wel, the reduce way, the zipmap way and ro_st's way all make sense to me :)
06:44	TEttinger	I kinda thought mine was clear... :(
06:44	noncom	did anyone use serial-port library from Sam Aaron to communicate over the serial port?
06:44	TEttinger	splits the arglist into pairs, calls a function over each pair that calls a on the first, b on the second, turns each pair into a key-value entry in a map
06:45	dublindan	TEttinger I think I need to look up 'into', think thats what threw me from yours
06:45	TEttinger	ah, into is super useful
06:45	TEttinger	(fn [a b & args] (into {} (map (fn [[x y]] [(a x) (b y)]) (partition 2 args)))) is the function. you could also do... ##((fn [a b & args] (into (sorted-map) (map (fn [[x y]] [(a x) (b y)]) (partition 2 args)))) identity inc :a 1 :b 2 :c 3)
06:45	lazybot	⇒ {:a 2, :b 3, :c 4}
06:47	TEttinger	the trick with into is, (into {} [[1 2][3 4]]) will turn each pair into a map
06:47	dublindan	Ok, so looked up into, your way actually looks pretty good now :P Might just use that
06:47	TEttinger	err map entry
06:47	TEttinger	haha thanks
06:47	dublindan	Yeah, just looked it up
06:47	dublindan	thanks for the help!
06:47	TEttinger	if zipmap is legible though, it's shortest I think
06:47	TEttinger	np
06:49	clgv	for must performance you have to use `reduce` and transients anyway ;)
06:49	clgv	*most
06:50	TEttinger	does map use transients internally?
06:51	clgv	no.
06:52	clgv	transients exist only for (hash-)map, sets, vectors
06:53	clgv	all the lazy sequence functions are built on lazy sequences ;)
06:56	lgs32a	,((fn foo [x y & args]
06:56	lgs32a	(apply hash-map (map #(%1 %2)
06:56	lgs32a	(cycle [x y]) args)))
06:56	lgs32a	identity inc :a 1 :b 2 :c 3)
06:56	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
06:56	lgs32a	,((fn foo [x y & args](apply hash-map (map #(%1 %2)(cycle [x y]) args))) identity inc :a 1 :b 2 :c 3)
06:56	clojurebot	{:a 2, :c 4, :b 3}
07:34	TEttinger	clgv, you sure about reduce being faster?
07:34	TEttinger	,(time (dotimes [i 1000] ((fn [x y & args] (reduce (fn [r [a b]] (assoc r (x a) (y b))) {} (partition 2 args))) identity inc :a 1 :b 2 :c 3) ))
07:34	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 41.949574 msecs"\n
07:35	TEttinger	,(time (dotimes [i 1000] ((fn [a b & args] (into {} (map (fn [[x y]] [(a x) (b y)]) (partition 2 args)))) identity inc :a 1 :b 2 :c 3) ))
07:35	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 30.852198 msecs"\n
07:35	TEttinger	this surprised me
07:35	clgv	TEttinger: reduce+transient was the statement
07:35	TEttinger	I thought reduce used transients internally
07:36	TEttinger	thought you meant that
07:36	clgv	nope
07:36	TEttinger	so if I turned the {} into (transient {})
07:37	TEttinger	err no, that won't do it
07:38	TEttinger	yes, it is a bit faster
07:38	TEttinger	,(time (dotimes [i 1000] ((fn [x y & args] (reduce (fn [r [a b]] (assoc! r (x a) (y b))) (transient {}) (partition 2 args))) identity inc :a 1 :b 2 :c 3) ))
07:38	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 12.533211 msecs"\n
07:39	TEttinger	woah very different here
07:39	TEttinger	nice, I will keep it in mind
07:39	TEttinger	transients must be faster on clojure 1.5?
07:39	TEttinger	,(clojure-version)
07:39	clojurebot	"1.6.0-master-SNAPSHOT"
07:40	TEttinger	dublindan, there's your answer :D (fn [x y & args] (reduce (fn [r [a b]] (assoc! r (x a) (y b))) (transient {}) (partition 2 args))) <-- thanks clgv
07:41	hyPiRion	transients are actually a tiny bit slower for collections where you do relatively few conj/assocs
07:41	clgv	hyPiRion: but the threshold is pretty low
07:42	TEttinger	yeah, this is 3 pairs.
07:42	hyPiRion	yeah, just be aware of it
08:59	sm0ke	hello sometimes i get exception in a clojure code with weird stac trace like
08:59	sm0ke	$eval1643.invoke(form-init2748065842052729346.clj:1)
08:59	Foxboron	sm0ke: welcome to clojure debugging. Any questions?
09:00	sm0ke	now in the stack trace that is the onlyline with my codes namespace
09:00	sm0ke	but looking at that its hard to figure out which line caused it
09:01	sm0ke	does that happens for anyone else?
09:01	Foxboron	sm0ke: please post the whole stacktrace
09:01	Foxboron	(in a pastebin)
09:02	llasram	sm0ke: That particular line of the stacktrace just refers to a form in your REPL
09:02	sm0ke	but how do i figure out which form!
09:03	sm0ke	there are so many
09:03	llasram	The one you just evaluated...?
09:03	sm0ke	AHA
09:04	sm0ke	llasram: did you mean that happened becuase i evaluated a form only via repl?
09:04	llasram	Yes
09:04	sm0ke	if i run it normally from java -jar..it will give me the exact location
09:04	sm0ke	let me try
09:04	llasram	no no
09:04	sm0ke	no?
09:04	llasram	You need to post the full stacktrace
09:04	clojurebot	no is tufflax: there was a question somewhere in there, the answer
09:04	llasram	That line just refers to the form in the REPL
09:05	Foxboron	sm0ke: clojure debugging involves a lot of guessing and stacktrace reading sadly :/
09:05	llasram	The rest of the stacktrace will show where the exception actually came from
09:05	Foxboron	It gets easier over time
09:05	TEttinger	definitely.
09:06	sm0ke	llasram: i assure you i am very sure none of it is from my code except that very line
09:06	sm0ke	still let me paste it
09:06	llasram	yes, please
09:07	TEttinger	the full trace may have a line or two from your code deeper in it
09:09	sm0ke	here http://pastebin.com/pmtwGcwp
09:09	sm0ke	its pretty useless
09:09	sm0ke	my code is comp_channel*
09:10	sm0ke	so guys i see a lot of clojure code with much exception handling..i dont understand how can clojure hide all that ugly exception handling
09:10	sm0ke	without*
09:11	sm0ke	or do people just shrug it off in clojure?
09:11	gfredericks	sm0ke: are you comparing to Java code?
09:11	sm0ke	yes
09:11	sm0ke	i just want to know whats the take of clojure on exception handling?
09:11	llasram	sm0ke: Um, "Connection refused"
09:12	gfredericks	a lot of exception handling in java is forced by the language, not something the programmer actually wanted to do
09:12	llasram	I'm not sure how you get much more clear than that :-)
09:12	gfredericks	("checked" exceptions)
09:12	sm0ke	llasram: yes i know what went wrong...but i want to know from which line
09:12	sm0ke	llasram: if you see rabbitmq java api you wont really not be sure with all that ugly abstraction which line is reponsible for it
09:13	sm0ke	gfredericks: what do you mean by that? any examples?
09:14	gfredericks	sm0ke: I mean that the java type system forces you to handle lots of exceptions, while that's not the case in clojure or other dynamically typed languages
09:14	TEttinger	sm0ke, the problem is with the connection
09:14	TEttinger	what are you connecting to?
09:14	gfredericks	I expect you'd see a similar style of exception handling in ruby/python/etc
09:15	TEttinger	might be a blocked port
09:15	sm0ke	gfredericks: sorry but thats not very concrete point..your sockets can still throw errors which is out of your control be it python java or clojure
09:15	sm0ke	and you have to handle it
09:16	sm0ke	TEttinger: eee i am connection to a rmq which i havent started
09:16	sm0ke	but you miss the point i wanted to know why isnt the stacktrace informative
09:16	TEttinger	oh, because you're in a repl
09:17	sm0ke	yea i also think so
09:17	TEttinger	I think there may be a way, but I don't use nrepl in emacs or anything
09:17	TEttinger	lein repl might have similar issues
09:17	sm0ke	hmm i think i should put a bunch of printlns
09:18	llasram	sm0ke: OOC, what was the exact line you evaluated in your REPL?
09:18	sm0ke	wait
09:20	sm0ke	https://www.refheap.com/19396
09:21	llasram	You tossed all of that into the prompt at your REPL?
09:21	sm0ke	:D
09:21	sm0ke	whats wrong with that?
09:21	sm0ke	thats what i like about clojure..quick check you functions
09:21	llasram	Because you won't get useful line numbers
09:22	llasram	Put the function definitions in a file in a real namespaces
09:22	llasram	Then call them from the REPL
09:22	sm0ke	llasram: hey wait
09:22	llasram	If you do that, you'll get a much better experience
09:22	sm0ke	llasram: its already in a file but i am using fireplace..
09:22	sm0ke	oh i think its same as tossing it on repl
09:24	sm0ke	i just realized how easy it has been to check my clojure code which i develop one small bit at a time
09:27	gfredericks	sm0ke: "have to handle it" is more concrete in java than in clojure/ruby/python -- your java code won't compile unless you at least nominally handle the exception
09:27	gfredericks	oh well
09:33	mullr	delay + extend-protocol yields some unexpected delight: https://www.refheap.com/19397
09:43	TEttinger	mullr, is the typo intentional?
09:43	TEttinger	(do-it lazy-intance)
09:43	mullr	ninja-edit what typo?
09:45	TEttinger	I don't have any idea what's going on there, can you explain?
09:46	mullr	There's a random protocol and an implementation.
09:46	mullr	I'd like to be able to delay the creation of said implementation, but still be able to treat it as though it were real.
09:47	mullr	Normally if you do (delay (->Impl 1 2)) you need to deref the value with @lazy-instance before you use it
09:47	mullr	This makes it transparent w.r.t. the methods in that protocol
09:47	TEttinger	nice!
09:47	TEttinger	I think I get that
09:47	mullr	i.e. instead of having to do (do-it @lazy-instance) you can do (do-it lazy-instance)
09:48	TEttinger	I've only used delay once anyway
09:48	TEttinger	I should probably use it more
09:48	mullr	which is nice when you have other code that you don't want to know about the laziness
09:48	mullr	This is the first time I've needed it too
09:53	lunk	how can I test for multiple types for input, like a vector, a double arrray or an Object? (fn f [name input & options])
09:55	gfredericks	lunk: vector? is a function
09:55	gfredericks	double arrays are trickier
09:55	gfredericks	instance? is probably helpful
09:55	mullr	lunk: The other answer is that maybe f should be protocol method, if you need to decide what to do based on the type
09:56	gfredericks	or a multimethod
09:56	mullr	aye
09:57	mullr	Both approaches (manual testing with vector?, instance?, etc and protocols/multimethods) have their place
10:14	wakeup	Hi
10:16	mdrogalis	Morning.
10:17	TEttinger	lunk, for double arrays, I don't know of any way other than ##(let [check (fn [arr] (= (type (double-array 1)) (type arr)))] (check (double-array 3)))
10:17	lazybot	⇒ true
10:18	clgv	,(.getCanonicalName (Class/forName "[D"))
10:18	clojurebot	"double[]"
10:18	lunk	mullr: ahh, let me investigate protocols, haven't actually run into a need for them yet
10:19	lunk	TEttinger: aha, i think with type and cond i can get the behavior i want
10:19	TEttinger	maybe store the types as defs with nicer names.
10:20	lunk	yes
10:22	gfredericks	also condp instance? might be succinct
10:25	noncom	if i have two part of the program that run independently, can i use core.async to organize messaging between them? i need the messaging to not be blocking. if there is message, the program should respond, otherwise, simply continue
10:25	noncom	?
10:28	lunk	,(let [x (double-array 3)] (instance x)
10:28	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
10:28	lunk	,(let [x (double-array 3)] (instance x))
10:28	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: instance in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
10:28	xeqi	noncom: it sounds to me like a normal queue would work fine
10:28	lunk	meh
10:28	mullr	,(doc instance?)
10:29	clojurebot	"([c x]); Evaluates x and tests if it is an instance of the class c. Returns true or false"
10:29	noncom	xeqi : you mean java queue, no core.async?
10:30	xeqi	noncom: probably an atom with a clojure.lang.PersistentQueue/EMPTY
10:30	xeqi	use peek to see if there is a message and handle it
10:31	xeqi	use pop to update the queue
10:31	noncom	xeqi: i see, thanks! was thinking something along such lines, but asked to see if it could be core.async.. but i am interested: core.async would do if i would need blocking right?
10:33	xeqi	noncom: yep
10:34	noncom	cool! that clarifies the usage case for me!
10:35	mullr	lunk: A version with protocols: https://www.refheap.com/19399
10:36	mullr	Interestingly, doing extend-protocol like that only works when the dynamic call is the first one
10:36	mullr	As noted at http://stackoverflow.com/questions/13924842/extend-clojure-protocol-to-a-primitive-array
10:41	sm0ke	is there possibility for clojure having an inbuild debugger?
10:45	seangrov`	phew, refheap can continue on, mongodb got its investment
10:46	sm0ke	wtf is it with mongodb getting all the the fundings in the world
10:48	sm0ke	i dont see what value it provides by storing a bunch of nested bson..with no meaningful api to query it comprehensively
10:48	indigo	sm0ke: It's good enough
10:48	sm0ke	id rather go with elasticsearch than mongo
10:48	seangrov`	sm0ke: Who cares, traction
10:49	sm0ke	db for cool kids
10:51	sm0ke	and btw i hate this "nosql" shit..i mean sql is not a fucking database for god sake its just a language..
10:52	sm0ke	you can have scalable shardable database with sql query language too
10:53	sm0ke	meh i better do something productive and read joy of clojure..who cares
10:54	indigo	sm0ke: Yeah, but what if you want to have an object database
10:54	indigo	Mongo has its uses
10:54	oholiab	mongo is alright for transient data that might change in schema, but I think that's the thing that people don't really get - a scalable key value store has specific applications but it doesn't necessarily mean it's a good replacement for a proper rdbms
10:55	oholiab	there are certainly usage cases for it when higher persistence is involved but I think if you're talking scale and persistence then maybe having a hard and fast, well designed schema is something you want to start off with
10:55	sm0ke	indigo: i dont understand what objects?
10:56	sm0ke	if storing objects is what you want rather go with jpa
10:56	arkh	what's the simplest way to get the next or prev item in a sorted map relative to a known key?
10:57	sm0ke	agree with oholiab
10:59	oholiab	mongo is a really easy db to decide to use and so easy to develop against because you don't really need to architect anything in order to prototype
10:59	oholiab	which is fine as long as you stop and look at your requirements once you've finished prototyping
11:00	oholiab	tl;dr, mongo has a bad rep because it's easy to develop against and set up so people use it in preference of what is suitable to their needs and then cry when they loose all their data
11:00	sm0ke	oholiab: exactly
11:00	sm0ke	ok this is from a real scenario in my company
11:01	sm0ke	a company working on data realted to hotel bookings and stuff had their whole data store in mongo
11:01	sm0ke	i mean everything ..even used feedback was deeply nested
11:02	sm0ke	they were just stuck..because they just couldnt find meaningfull way to query inforamtion out of it
11:02	wakeup	Why does this work: (:a {:a 2 :b 1}) ?
11:03	nathanic	wakeup: keywords can be used as functions to look themselves up in a map
11:03	wakeup	Is it pretty smart-ass syntax for (get ... :a) ?
11:03	oholiab	I love that behaviour
11:03	oholiab	well, do be fair, it's just a replacement for [] syntax in other languages I suppose
11:03	sm0ke	i mean you would not write mongo contrived map reduce for real time dashboards right?
11:03	llasram	wakeup: Kind of. There's actually some internal JVM glue which makes it more efficient, especially for Record types
11:04	oholiab	I just like it though, it looks nice
11:04	wakeup	(map :a (list {:a 1} {:a 2} {:a 3}))
11:04	wakeup	ridiculous
11:04	nathanic	,(map :a (list {:a 1} {:a 2} {:a 3}))
11:04	clojurebot	(1 2 3)
11:04	llasram	wakeup: Because a Clojure function is just a JVM object which implements the IFn interface, any object can also be used as a function just by implementing that interface
11:05	wakeup	,(type (fn []))
11:05	clojurebot	sandbox$eval57$fn__58
11:05	wakeup	,(type :a)
11:05	clojurebot	clojure.lang.Keyword
11:05	wakeup	This will haunt you a long time.
11:05	llasram	?
11:05	llasram	What will
11:06	lunk	mullr: that looks like it would definitely work. overkill for this particular case, but thanks for the info regardless.
11:06	llasram	,(map ifn? [(fn []) {} :a 'a])
11:06	clojurebot	(true true true true)
11:07	lunk	mullr: think i'll try instance/cond approach in a function first
11:07	mullr	lunk: n/p, good luck!
11:07	wakeup	llasram: Well type doesn't seem to work on functions.
11:07	wakeup	assuming it is the analogue to CL's TYPE-OF
11:08	wakeup	The more I get into clojure the more I realize the chaos
11:08	lunk	mullr: any idea how to test a type that's an inter-op with a java class, that doesn't have an empty constructor?
11:08	llasram	wakeup: It isn't. `type` returns the concrete type of an object, which for functions is a different concrete type for each function
11:08	TimMc	wakeup: Side note: You usually want class, not type.
11:08	lunk	mullr: i guess object would work, but it's not as correct
11:09	wakeup	,(class (fn []))
11:09	clojurebot	sandbox$eval145$fn__146
11:09	llasram	TimMc, wakeup: Eh, `type` gives you a bit more flexibility.
11:09	mullr	lunk: You mean a java type? just write it down. java.lang.String, etc.
11:09	llasram	wakeup: `type` gives the same results as `class`, unless the object has `:type` metadata
11:09	nathanic	,(doc ifn?)
11:09	clojurebot	"([x]); Returns true if x implements IFn. Note that many data structures (e.g. sets and maps) implement IFn"
11:10	wakeup	So there is no function type? just a function interface?
11:10	llasram	wakeup: Because so many things on the JVM and in Clojure depend on interfaces, having a single "type" for something isn't that useful
11:10	llasram	For example, vectors are functions, indexed, and associative, among many other things
11:10	wakeup	hmm
11:10	wakeup	pretty frankenstein if you ask me
11:11	llasram	Once you get used to it, it's pretty powerful, especially with the addition of protocols
11:11	arkh	duh - re: my previous question, subseq is what's needed
11:11	TimMc	wakeup: Interfaces are a "type".
11:11	devn	anyone use zephyros?
11:12	TimMc	s/a type/types/
11:13	TimMc	devn: You know which factoid I'm going to have to pull up now, right?
11:13	cark	I've been trying to test core.async with clojurescript and cljs-build, but i get this error : "
11:13	cark	> I've been trying to test core.async with clojurescript and cljs-build, but i get this error : "
11:13	cark	> I've been trying to test core.async with clojurescript and cljs-build, but i get this error : "WARNING: Use of undeclared Var cljs.core.async.impl.ioc-helpers/keyword-identical?...."
11:13	cark	hum oops
11:14	cark	anyways... it obviously doesn't work, maybe i'm not usiing the correct version of clojurescriptp ?
11:14	lunk	mullr: derp, making it way too hard
11:15	llasram	wakeup: My current favorite trick is extending a protocol to Fn
11:16	cark	i'm using core.async 0.1.242 and lein-cljsbuild 0.3.3
11:16	devn	TimMc: Madison Square Clabango?
11:16	devn	clabango?
11:16	clojurebot	clabango is madison
11:18	indigo	sm0ke: ORMs are a faulty abstraction
11:20	mullr	wakeup: It's worth noting that result is different for clojurescript:
11:20	mullr	ClojureScript:cljs.user> (type (fn []))
11:20	mullr	#<function Function() { [native code for Function.Function, arity=1] }
11:20	mullr	>
11:20	mullr	The JVM doesn't have a function type, while javascript does.
11:20	TimMc	devn: ~anyone :-P
11:21	jonasen	cark: you'll need to explicitly add the latest cljs release to project.clj
11:21	noncom	is java 8 gonna have functional type?
11:21	cark	jonasen: ah I thought it was something like that, i'm currently trying to find a place to see which one is the last
11:21	noncom	s/functional/function
11:22	noncom	i remember them talking about lambda support for java 7 but delayed for java 8. will it affect clojure somehow?
11:22	mullr	noncom: afaik, it won't; it'll just let you reify a single-method interface in a way that looks like a function literal.
11:23	TEttinger	clojure fns will probably still be better
11:23	noncom	sounds similar to what scala and clojrue already do
11:23	TEttinger	yeah. it might provide more backend at the JVM level though
11:25	jonasen	cark: http://search.maven.org/#search%7Cga%7C1%7Cclojurescript
11:25	jonasen	0.0-1909
11:25	cark	jonasen: thanks !
11:26	mullr	looks like it is indeed different: http://zeroturnaround.com/rebellabs/java-8-the-first-taste-of-lambdas/
11:27	mullr	though I'm not sure what a lambda's type would be
11:29	ToxicFrog	mullr: it says right in that article
11:29	gfredericks	any interface with a single abstract method?
11:29	ToxicFrog	It has the type of the SAM interface it implements
11:30	ToxicFrog	So if your lambda is implementing Runnable.run(), it has type Runnable
11:30	mullr	But surely it has a concrete type as well
11:31	gfredericks	an anonymous class?
11:31	gfredericks	java has had those for a while, just syntactically clunky
11:31	cark	jonasen: hum not too great tho, now the warning about cljs.core.keyword-identical? disapeared, but it's still not defined !
11:31	noncom	one more link http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/java/javaOO/lambdaexpressions.html
11:32	TEttinger	maybe lambda is the implicit parent of sam interfaces, like object for all objects?
11:32	mullr	From what this article says, the lambda turns into a method in the same class it's used in
11:32	noncom	and http://cr.openjdk.java.net/~briangoetz/lambda/lambda-translation.html
11:34	noncom	so they are very different from clojure
11:35	mullr	That last link seems to have it… and the answer is "it depends"
11:35	mullr	different indeed
11:36	cark	jonasen: or your info, i only had to delete (clean if you will) the pre-compiled stuff from old clojurescript
11:36	cark	for*
11:37	cark	jonasen: so now it's working, thanks again
11:38	noncom	that implementation of lambdas does not seem good to me. sure i am not a compiler designer, but it just looks like they're trying to play around the existing jvm paradigm.. sure they have to..
11:39	noncom	but it does not look.. ummm... healthy..
11:40	jonasen	cark: great!
11:47	seangrov`	Ah, damnit, you can't really update cookies with a redirect.
11:59	TimMc	seangrov`: Really? :-(
12:02	rodnaph	anyone able to help with getting started in core.typed?
12:03	rodnaph	while attmepting to check a namespace i'm getting an error about an interop call - " Call to instance field getBytes requires type hints."
12:03	rodnaph	but finding the docs on the wiki a bit dense...
12:06	gfredericks	rodnaph: do you call .getBytes somewhere?
12:06	rodnaph	yes, in a function - but i'm not sure how to go about type hinting it. here's the fn...
12:07	rodnaph	(ann string->stream [String -> ByteArrayInputStream])
12:07	rodnaph	(defn string->stream [string]
12:07	rodnaph	(ByteArrayInputStream.
12:07	rodnaph	(.getBytes (.trim string))))
12:07	gfredericks	hm
12:08	gfredericks	presumably core.typed knows it's a string
12:08	gfredericks	so naively it doesn't seem necessary
12:08	gfredericks	but you could try (.getBytes ^String (.trim string))
12:11	gfredericks	perhaps core.typed is trying to help you avoid reflective code for some reason
12:13	TimMc	Or put the ^String in the arglist.
12:14	TimMc	rodnaph: Oh, and remember to specify your encoding with getBytes (almost certainly UTF-8)
12:18	mullr	"(almost certainly UTF-8)" Isn't it nice to be able to say that?
12:20	mtp	almost
12:20	mtp	:)
12:20	mtp	IT COULD BE UTF-EBCDIC AND THEN WHAT
12:25	TimMc	Ugh, UTF-EBCDIC.
12:25	TimMc	(Sadly, this is a thing: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTF-EBCDIC>)
12:25	TimMc	gfredericks: More like Tim'msee
12:35	gfredericks	llasram: what is it that has boggled your mind.
12:43	maris`	has anyone use leiningen to publish artifacts to a remote maven repo ? where should I specify password ?
12:43	mdrogalis	maris`: It depends which you're trying to publish to.
12:44	maris`	private repo, we are using artifactory
12:44	mdrogalis	maris`: Specify it in your .profile as a GPG key.
12:45	maris`	lein complains about password "No credentials found for snapshots"
12:46	rodnaph	gfredericks: TimMc: that worked, thanks a lot!
12:47	maris`	do I have to use GPG ? plain strings won't work ?
12:47	mdrogalis	maris`: Have you seen the Leinigen Wiki page about setting up keys?
12:47	maris`	{"snapshots" {:url "http://10.0.1.136:8081/artifactory/libs-snapshot-local"
12:47	maris`	:username "xxx"
12:47	maris`	:passphrase "xxx"}}
12:47	mdrogalis	Unless it's a CI machine, it's kind of a pain to do without keys.
12:47	@technomancy	mdrogalis: signing artifacts before publishing is different from authenticating to deploy
12:48	@technomancy	maris`: if you use full-disk encryption you can place your credentials in an unencrypted file
12:48	mdrogalis	technomancy: Ahh. Brb, lunch.
12:48	nDuff	technomancy: only worried about offline attacks?
12:48	maris`	it is CI machine, we are trying to make it work from CI server
12:49	@technomancy	maris`: oh, gotcha. see the "full-disk encryption" section under `lein help deploying`
12:49	nDuff	maris`: I do that with SSH forwarding -- trigger the CI build over SSH into a restricted account that runs the build in the sandbox with the user's agent forwarded.
12:49	@technomancy	nDuff: not "only", but I can't in good conscience recommend storing plaintext creds on a developer's laptop
12:50	nDuff	maris`: ...that way the CI server can SFTP into the artifact repository as the user, connect to source control as the user, &c., but not be able to use that user's credentials beyond the duration of their connection.
12:50	@technomancy	nDuff: we have a security berserker at work who threatens summary decapitations for less
12:50	nDuff	technomancy: I don't see a need for plaintext creds. Store your keys encrypted and use the {ssh,gnupg}-agent interface to store unlocked versions in non-pageable memory.
12:51	@technomancy	nDuff: yeah, that's what the lein docs recommend
12:51	TimMc	I want to be a security berserker.
12:51	nDuff	...granted, root can still get into that, but shrug.
12:54	@technomancy	hat and beard, hopefully?
12:55	nDuff	technomancy: ...well, yah, that's the other part of it -- fiancee has insisted that I ditch most of the beard.
12:55	gfredericks	the lefternmost 3/4 presumably
12:59	goracio	hi, can someone advise what to use for realtime backend for web site ? something similar to tornado and socket.io - core.async ?
13:00	nDuff	goracio: have a look at http://http-kit.org/
13:01	nDuff	goracio: core.async is great, but it doesn't give you a complete, usable web stack.
13:01	sm0ke	hello anyone using https://github.com/MichaelDrogalis/dire ?
13:01	goracio	nDuff: great i will look at it
13:01	mdrogalis	sm0ke: Me. ;)
13:02	sm0ke	mdrogalis: any thoughts?
13:02	mdrogalis	sm0ke: Well, I like it.
13:02	nDuff	goracio: ...you might find http://shenfeng.me/600k-concurrent-connection-http-kit.html interesting, by the way.
13:03	sm0ke	i just looked at it imagined how fu**ing awesome it would be to have all error handling for the whole code in a seperate namespace?
13:04	sm0ke	mdrogalis: i have one doubt though, how do you propogate errors using dire?
13:04	mdrogalis	sm0ke: Indeed, it's pretty awesome. https://bitbucket.org/jotspec/server/src/4e12292560c66e03a9066f595457f4e2069a595a/src/jotspec/handlers.clj?at=refactor
13:04	mdrogalis	sm0ke: throw
13:05	sm0ke	mdrogalis: awesome! what i thought
13:05	goracio	nDuff: ok ) used to work with rails usually but rails really bad with it (
13:05	bbloom	guys…. i miss sexprs...
13:05	sm0ke	i am going with dire for sure
13:05	bbloom	i'm doing various js/ruby/html stuff now
13:05	bbloom	and all this string templating sucks :-/
13:06	mdrogalis	sm0ke: Happy trails.
13:06	mdrogalis	I'm off again for a bit. Be back later.
13:08	sm0ke	have a good one
13:09	sm0ke	oh i just realize i was talking to the author of the library
13:12	yedi	man, uberjar is pretty sexy, esp coming from someone with no sysops experience
13:14	sm0ke	yedi: its a double edge sword
13:14	yedi	how so
13:14	jacobm	j/
13:15	sm0ke	it just unjars everying thing into a single jar..which can be nightmare for multiple dependencies with common ackage structure
13:16	sm0ke	especially the log nuisance in java worls
13:16	sm0ke	world*
13:17	gfredericks	,(Math/nextAfter 3.0 4.0)
13:17	clojurebot	3.0000000000000004
13:19	gfredericks	huh. presumably you could use that to make a list of all the doubles in order
13:21	hyPiRion	ah, just what I need
13:25	coventry	For code wrapping purposes, I'd like to be able to access a macro from an arbitrary ns, the way you can with functions. Is there any way to do this without dropping a reference to the macro or its containing ns into the target ns? It appears that a form like (#'clojure.core/when 1 2 3 4) is treated as a function call, with [1 2] replacing [&form &env].
13:26	gfredericks	coventry: I do not quite understand what problem you're trying to solve
13:26	gfredericks	you can use macros from any namespace...
13:28	gfredericks	what are "code wrapping purposes"?
13:33	coventry	I've run into some problems with riddley which I think are difficult to solve in full generality (https://github.com/ztellman/riddley/issues/9). I have an idea for an alternative approach which does the same sort of walking as riddley, but does it at macroexpansion time. I.e., I would wrap every form in a macro which upon expansion wraps every form in its body in a macro, etc. But I need a way to refer to this wrapping macro in the
13:33	coventry	target source file/namespace. I could drop it in with an (intern), or by tampering with the (ns) form. I'm wondering if there's a more elegant way.
13:34	gfredericks	you want a macro A that expands to calls to macro B and don't know how to do that?
13:35	coventry	No, I have a file file.clj which I want to read in, wrapping every top-level form with a macro A, and I want a clean way to refer to A in file.clj's namespace(s).
13:36	gfredericks	if you know that A's namespace will be loaded, all you need is to use the fully qualified symbol that refers to A
13:36	gfredericks	syntax-quote normally takes care of this for you
13:36	gfredericks	,`when
13:36	clojurebot	clojure.core/when
13:38	coventry	That means some way of dropping a reference to A's namespace on file.clj during the read process. I was looking for a way to avoid that. For instance, I can do a (#clojure.string/replace) call without having a reference to clojure.string in the current ns. It would be nice to have a way to do that with macros.
13:39	coventry	(Nice for this particular application.)
13:39	gfredericks	that's the same though
13:39	gfredericks	because that requires somebody to have loaded clojure.string
13:39	gfredericks	what do you mean by "dropping a reference to A's namespace on file.clj"?
13:40	seangrov`	I've learned a valuable lesson, now please make the pain stop...
13:40	@technomancy	last night I found myself wondering if it would be possible to write a macro that could losslessly collapse nested `loop`s into a single loop containing each of the loop locals
13:41	@technomancy	for something like http://paste.lisp.org/display/139288
13:42	coventry	(Oops, meant #'clojure.string.) gfredericks, wrt loading of clojure.string: Yes, my code analysis library will be administering the reading and transformation of file.clj's form, so it will have loaded the ns containing macro A.
13:42	@technomancy	an inner recur would just recur with the outer locals unchanged, but an outer recur would reset the inner locals to their initial value
13:42	@technomancy	does that make any sense?
13:43	TimMc	coventry: So just use name.space/my-macro, done.
13:43	gfredericks	coventry: so I'm not sure why something like (cons `my-A-macro some-form) will not suffice
13:43	TimMc	technomancy: How would this be different from non-anaphoric loop/recur?
13:43	rasmusto	technomancy: it would be cool if list comprehensions could do something similar
13:43	TimMc	Or is that the goal?
13:44	@technomancy	TimMc: you can't "outer-recur" with nested loops
13:44	TimMc	I know.
13:44	TimMc	I think that's what I said. :-P
13:44	coventry	gfredericks: wrt "dropping a reference", I mean either (intern file.clj-namespace 'A A-macro) from the outside, or injecting something like (require 'A-macro-ns) into file.clj.
13:45	@technomancy	TimMc: that's the only difference I had in mind. I'm not totally sure it works.
13:45	TimMc	coventry: Just try what gfredericks is suggesting, please.
13:45	@technomancy	totally sure it's feasible, I mean
13:45	gfredericks	technomancy: do you think the bytecode optimizes for when some of the locals don't change?
13:46	@technomancy	gfredericks: no idea
13:47	coventry	TimMc: The trouble is that my-A-macro is not in the context where that cons will be evaluated. There are multiple feasible ways to get it in there, but I was asking about a way to avoid having to do that.
13:48	coventry	If I have to inject it explicitly, I probably have to do so for every form, in case the last form changed the namespace. Not onerous, just ugly.
13:49	gfredericks	coventry: in what sense is it "not in the context"? if it's been loaded into the jvm _at all_ then it is enough "in the context" to refer to it via a fully qualified symbol
13:50	logic_prog	I need to use a sql database as part of my Clojure app. Is there a standard quite of benchmarks that both MySQL and Postgresql run on?
13:51	nDuff	logic_prog: (?)
13:51	coventry	gfredericks: Oh, I understand now. Thanks.
13:51	@technomancy	logic_prog: don't choose based on benchmarks
13:51	nDuff	logic_prog: if I were trying to decide between those two datastores, benchmarks wouldn't come into it.
13:52	@technomancy	mysql always wins at benchmarking because they just turn off all the "actually store your data consistently and safely" features
13:52	nDuff	logic_prog: benchmark results, in general, are all about the tuning. MySQL, out-of-the-box, has historically been tuned for performance over safety, and PostgreSQL, out-of-the-box, has historically been tuned for safety over performance (and to run on very resource-constrained systems)
13:52	nDuff	logic_prog: ...but you can tune either one either way.
13:54	hiredman	fun fact, if you google "mysql fast migration" a large chunk of the front page is results for how to quickly migrate off of mysql
13:55	logic_prog	technomancy: oh, mysql wins = via "we'll store shit in ram and never write to disk" ?
13:55	nDuff	logic_prog: nope.
13:55	nDuff	logic_prog: they write to disk, but do it poorly.
13:55	hiredman	or, I should say, that was the case last time I checked
13:56	logic_prog	hiredman: lol
13:56	@technomancy	logic_prog: iirc it's more like acknowledging writes before the disk buffers have flushed; stuff like that
13:57	nDuff	...which, if done poorly enough, can be worse than just losing the last few committed writes; if your metadata and your data are inconsistent with each other...
13:57	nDuff	s/committed/"committed"/
13:57	@technomancy	but yeah, unless you're distributing software for people to run in settings you don't control, I can't imagine a very solid case being made for mysql over postgres.
13:57	mtp	but nobody knows postgres!!1one
13:58	mtp	mysql is industry standard and comes with my expensive pay-for enterprise linux distribution
13:58	mtp	i am a marketing fool, let me wipe my face with my own poo
13:58	dnolen	technomancy: are you thinking about something like recur-to proposed by Michal Marcyk on clojure-dev a while back?
13:59	@technomancy	dnolen: hm; no, I missed that, but it sounds like the same idea
14:02	logic_prog	dnolen: !!!
14:02	logic_prog	dnolen: I've been studying core.logic:
14:02	logic_prog	dnolen: at it's core, is it juat an unification algorithm ?
14:03	logic_prog	dnolen: besides unification algorithm + optimizations, what is there to core.logic / miniKanren? I feel like I'm missing something fundamental.
14:03	dnolen	logic_prog: mK is unification + interleaving search
14:03	logic_prog	interleaving seach = condi, but not conde ?
14:04	logic_prog	dnolen: actually, ignore what I just said. Can you explain to me why interleaving search is important?
14:04	dnolen	logic_prog: yeah mK doesn't include condi anymore, but the version in TRS does
14:04	logic_prog	dnolen: I fail to grasp this fundamental decision
14:04	dnolen	logic_prog: rather I mean condi is the only one - there's no conde, that is condi became conde
14:04	logic_prog	dnolen: I know that in core.logic, there is condi and there is no conde.
14:05	logic_prog	dnolen: I don't understand why "interleaving search" is important/interesting
14:05	dnolen	logic_prog: but this is true for mK now
14:05	dnolen	logic_prog: more programs produce results
14:05	logic_prog	{core.logic, mK} both has condi; neither has conde
14:05	logic_prog	dnolen: oh, there are certain things wher conde will infinite loop, but condi produces results?
14:05	logic_prog	okay, I can believe that.
14:06	dnolen	logic_prog: depth first so yes
14:06	logic_prog	I see, so if I have something like (cond [infinite loop] [produce result] )
14:06	logic_prog	conde hangs, while condi hits the [produce result] part
14:06	dnolen	logic_prog: yep
14:06	logic_prog	dnolen: besides unification + interleaving search, are there any other main ideas behind core.logic ?
14:07	dnolen	logic_prog: constraint solving
14:07	logic_prog	dnolen: how is that not just unification?
14:07	dnolen	logic_prog: specifically finite domains and nominal logic
14:07	mdrogalis	dnolen: Just gave your Lambda Jam talk a watch. Fun stuff. :)
14:07	logic_prog	(in particular, isn't constriant solving = unificatino saying "fuck, I can't unify this, backtrack" ?)
14:07	dnolen	mdrogalis: thx
14:07	rasmusto	logic_prog: unificatino, heh
14:07	dnolen	logic_prog: yes, except ... performance
14:10	coventry	Regarding logic programming, etc., I've been reading Out of the Tarpit, and it would be great to have an example of app which comes close to its ideal of specifying its own requirements independently of implementation details. It all feels a little utopian, although a great ideal to strive for. (Just finished chapter 7, though. Maybe he gets more concrete later.)
14:10	coventry	*section 7
14:10	mtp	coventry how about urbit
14:11	mtp	http://www.urbit.org/2013/08/22/Chapter-2-nock.html it basically specifies some axioms of software
14:11	coventry	mtp: Thanks, I'll take a look.
14:13	logic_prog	dnolen: thanks, this was a fantastically insightful 5 minutes
14:13	dnolen	logic_prog: np
14:13	logic_prog	coventry: also, Coq -- it's all about specs and proving theorems, efficienty be damned. Natural numbers are defined as: nat := 0 \| forall (n: nat), S n
14:13	logic_prog	numbers are _unary_ :-)
14:14	mtp	"church numerals"
14:16	aaelony	hmm, the following works (clj-time.core/date-time 2012 01 30 12 34 56) ;; #<DateTime 2012-01-30T12:34:56.000Z>, but when I parse from a string I get a ClassCastException... (clj-time.core/date-time (into [] (map #(Integer/parseInt %) (clojure.string/split "2012-01-30 12:34:56" #"(-\| \|:)")) )) ;; ClassCastException clojure.lang.PersistentVector cannot be cast to java.lang.Number clj-time.core/date-time (core.clj:196) I'm probably
14:16	aaelony	making another silly mistake...
14:18	nathanic	aaelony: into is producing a vector, which you are passing to date-time. perhaps you want to use apply.
14:18	aaelony	nathanic: cool, I'll try that
14:19	rasmusto	aaelony: don't you want to be using clj-time.format/parse?
14:20	aaelony	rasmusto: you're right. Maybe that's better. What I'm really getting at is a function that takes in a date-string and tells me if it's in daylight savings time or not, going both forward and back in time...
14:22	rasmusto	oh hm, not sure how you'd do that, but I think using "parse" and getting a date is the first step
14:22	nathanic	aaelony: in general i would mention that clojure.core/mapv will directly produce a vector (non-lazily), and give you the same result as (into [] (map ...)) but more efficiently. and you probably didn't need a vector there anyway. :-)
14:22	aaelony	I'm thinking to just convert the date-string to a datetime, then use within? and interval together
14:23	mikerod	Is there a good/efficient way to check before calling a method that it won't result in java.lang.AbstractMethodError?
14:24	sm0ke	why is it that ##(:a {:k 1}); doesnt thow exception?
14:24	lazybot	⇒ nil
14:25	sm0ke	should one just check for nil and throw exception?
14:25	hiredman	mikerod: abstractmethoderrors are normally sort of a correctness problem, not something you would deal with at runtime
14:26	rasmusto	##(contains? {:k 1} :a)
14:26	lazybot	⇒ false
14:26	hiredman	it means something isn't lining up correctly
14:26	mikerod	hiredman: Yeah, I can see your point there.
14:26	hiredman	you are calling methods on a class that claims to implment a particular interface, but doesn't really, or something similar
14:27	aaelony	I think the reason I shy away from clj-time.format/parse is that I find formatters confusing
14:28	bts-	for dev work, i have my app configured using lein's :env in project.clj. i am trying to move the app to prod. do most people use lein in production to help with config/environment stuff like this, or is there some common pattern? it would be nice if i could keep dev and prod configuration in the same place (like project.clj)
14:29	bts-	i'm currently using environ for development
14:32	sm0ke	even java map would return null i guess
14:35	sm0ke	i think i am thinking too much about exceptions after heated argument with friend about me saying exceptions are overrated and he would need exception handling for his exception handling code
14:35	sm0ke	blah
14:36	rasmusto	I find exceptions hard to reason about, but there are always exceptions...
14:37	sm0ke	nice one
14:37	uvtc	rasmusto, I take exception to that.
14:38	sm0ke	you had a problem and tried to use exception , now NullPointerException
14:38	gfredericks	(when-not (nil? x) (throw (NonNullPointerException. "should be null")))
14:39	sm0ke	eh not as nice..i liked "You had a problem and tried to use parallelism, now problems two have you"
14:40	uvtc	hehe
14:42	jenny1986	http://Fun4Days.com/sms/sms.php?share=178616
14:43	sm0ke	wtf bots posting porn video links? so it has come to this
14:43	uvtc	hit and run spam on #clojure? Hm. First time I've seen that.
14:43	indigo	We must be getting popular ;D
14:43	havenwood	same bot just hit #ruby
14:49	rurumate	euroclojure anyone?
14:51	mdrogalis	Someone here was saying that gen-class isn't the way to do it anymore - that its recommended to use a Java shim to call into the Clojure code. Did I remember that bit correctly?
14:51	devn	(:require [clojure.core.async :exclude [map into reduce merge] :as async :refer :all] :reload-all)
14:51	devn	is there a better way to do this?
14:51	devn	err, sans reload-all
14:54	rasmusto	devn: better in what way? What about ":as async" or something so you don't get the collisions
14:55	jonasen	devn: or you can (:refer-clojure :exclude [...])
14:57	devn	rasmusto: i find the need to prefix everything with async as really chatty
14:58	devn	jonasen: i think i prefer to exclude from async so I need to be explicit when I want to use async/into, async/merge etc. rather than clojure.core/into
14:58	jonasen	devn: I agree
14:58	devn	anyway, it's not a big deal, i just noticed that since i last played with async the namespace declaration is getting to be kind of unwieldy
15:00	jonasen	devn: why don't you just :refer the vars you actually use?
15:00	jonasen	instead of :refer :all
15:11	cmajor7	why would lein not resolve transitive dependencies for jars that were deployed to a local maven repo?
15:12	hiredman	because when you mvn installed those jars the poms you created didn't have the correct dependencies
15:13	cmajor7	that is a logical conclusion, but they do :)
15:13	cmajor7	have correct dependencies
15:13	cmajor7	I used "lein localrepo install" and -p for a pom that "lein pom" produced
15:14	cmajor7	just curious what could have gone wrong
15:14	cmajor7	at the same time I understand that with maven anything can go wrong.. :)
15:15	hiredman	did you actually set up you project from the "local repo" you are publishing to?
15:17	cmajor7	ok, false alarm.. there is something wrong with the box.. I see some other apps throwing "Caused by: java.io.IOException: No space left on device".. thx for responses though
15:44	bitemyapp	ianeslick: hi
15:44	ianeslick	bitemyapp: hi
15:45	bitemyapp	ianeslick: how's the startup?
15:45	ianeslick	Cranking away!
15:45	bitemyapp	strangemonad: I like the nick, having a hard time envisioning what a strange monad would be though.
15:45	bitemyapp	strangemonad: Cont of Conts?
15:45	mtp	it's like a top quark
15:45	bitemyapp	ianeslick: good luck :)
15:49	ianeslick	bitemyapp: May be fruitful to have an offline conversation about what I'm up to.
15:50	bitemyapp	ianeslick: I'd like that. Are you in the Yay?
15:50	ianeslick	bitemyapp: Yay?
15:50	bitemyapp	ianeslick: Yay! Area - bay area.
15:50	bitemyapp	SF Bay Area. It's in California. You should check it out sometime. I hear startups are big here.
15:51	ianeslick	bitemyapp: Totally outta the loop on vernacular I see. The office is at 1st and Market!
15:51	ianeslick	bitemyapp: That's downtown SF to you.
15:51	rurumate	Cascalog hello-world question incoming. I have the jobtracker running on port 50030, now (?- (stdout) sentence) apparently runs some hadoop job, but there are no retired hadoop jobs listed on localhost:50030/jobtracker.jsp. How to configure cascalog to connect to an actual jobtracker, instead of running things in memory?
15:51	bitemyapp	ianeslick: I'm at 3rd and Brannan. :)
15:51	llasram	rurumate: The stdout sink only works in local mode
15:52	ianeslick	bitemyapp: "It's a small world…"
15:52	rurumate	llasram: hmm, good to know
15:52	ianeslick	bitemyapp: Lunch next week? Tue or Wed?
15:52	konr	is there a way to redefine a function using its old version in the redefinition, and not the redefined one? The following causes a stack overflow: (let [wrap #(str "[" %)] (with-redefs [wrap #(str (wrap %) "]")] (wrap "a")))
15:52	bitemyapp	ianeslick: Tuesday would work well.
15:53	llasram	rurumate: For actually running from a REPL against a cluster, you need to run an nREPL server w/ the correct Hadoop classpath to pick up the Hadoop JARs and config
15:53	llasram	rurumate: You can either use `hadoop jar ...` to launch something which starts an nREPL server
15:53	llasram	rurumate: Or use leiningen and add the exact version of hadoop on your cluster to your deps and your hadoop config dir to the :resource-paths
15:54	rurumate	llasram: hadoop jar or java jar?
15:54	llasram	The `hadoop jar` subcommand. That launches a class from a JAR with the environment configured for Hadoop, including Hadoop dependency JARs and config on classpath
15:54	ianeslick	bitemyapp: Taking this offline (see email:)
15:55	rurumate	llasram: can the repl server be launched as an hadoop job?
15:55	llasram	No
15:55	llasram	I mean, you could
15:55	llasram	But it wouldn't make much senes
15:55	llasram	~sense
15:55	clojurebot	excusez-moi
15:56	rurumate	llasram: ok, the second options looks good idea
15:56	dobry-den	technomancy: i got this syntax to work in elisp. (let. [x 1 add (fn. [a b] (+ a b)) y 2] (add x y))
15:57	dobry-den	a feat for the noob
16:05	nycs	user=> (seq? [[1 2]])
16:05	nycs	false ;; why?
16:05	coventry	,(sequential? [[1 2]])
16:05	clojurebot	true
16:06	coventry	,(doc seq?)
16:06	clojurebot	"([x]); Return true if x implements ISeq"
16:06	nycs	oh
16:07	bitemyapp	,(seq? '())
16:07	clojurebot	true
16:14	noonian	,(doc sequential?)
16:14	clojurebot	"([coll]); Returns true if coll implements Sequential"
16:14	noonian	,(doc Sequential)
16:14	clojurebot	I don't understand.
16:19	tbaldridge	,clojure.lang.Sequential
16:19	clojurebot	clojure.lang.Sequential
16:20	tbaldridge	noonian: it's an interface
16:20	coventry	http://www.brainonfire.net/files/seqs-and-colls/main.html
16:32	dobry-den	this is a slow afternoon for me. how can i turn [\0 \1 \1 \0] into [0 1 1 0].
16:33	mdrogalis	dobry-den: (map #(Integer/parseInt (str %)) coll)
16:33	dobry-den	of course. thanks
16:34	mdrogalis	Sure.
16:35	rasmusto	why do function call signatures pop up in my nrepl buffer but not in my .clj file buffer in emacs?
16:36	dobry-den	rasmusto: in what context? when i hover over a function, it displays the sig in the minibuffer. when i'm autocompleting, it shows the sig in the autocompletion popup.
16:37	dobry-den	(clojure.repl/doc myfunc) is only way i see sigs in nrepl
16:38	rasmusto	dobry-den: I can hover over prn in nrepl and see the sig, but in a normal file buffer it doesn't show it
16:38	gfredericks	,(->> (repeatedly 5 #(rand-int 500)) (map char))
16:38	clojurebot	eval service is offline
16:38	gfredericks	&(->> (repeatedly 5 #(rand-int 500)) (map char))
16:38	lazybot	⇒ (\Ǎ \( \_ \Ƅ \Ä)
16:39	rasmusto	dobry-den: er what? now it's showing call signatures for some other lisp in my clj buffer :o
16:39	rasmusto	oh, I manually turned on ElDoc
16:46	@technomancy	dobry-den: wow, faking out lisp-1 in a lisp-2? very cool.
16:46	uvtc	Regarding seesaw, can anyone tell me what "actions" are, or what the difference is between actions and listeners?
16:47	rurumate	llasram: tried with hfs-seqfile instead of stdout, and added the hadoop-1.2.1 dir to the classpath with :resource-paths. But apparently the job still runs in-memory. Maybe I overlooked something?
16:49	nDuff	uvtc: Seesaw's actions wrap Swing actions, so it'd probably make sense to start with Swing's docs there.
16:49	llasram	rurumate: Your cluster configuration on the lasspath?
16:51	nDuff	uvtc: ...actions complect a bunch of additional things together -- keystrokes, mnemonics, handlers, etc., while listeners are just listeners.
16:51	uvtc	nDuff, yes... though, the Java docs tend to jam terms together, such as ActionListener and ActionEvent...
16:52	uvtc	nDuff, ok.
16:52	rurumate	llasram: oh you mean, I need the conf/ folder in classpath root? no
16:53	llasram	Yep. That's how it finds those files once the JVM starts
16:55	rurumate	llasram: oh yeah it works, thank u
16:56	llasram	np
17:00	rasmusto	dobry-den: I was missing a hook for 'nrepl-turn-on-eldoc-mode, found it
17:17	aaelony	For those interested, here's a refheap to my daylight-savings-time? function. https://www.refheap.com/19417 Internally there is a vector of daylight savings time ranges for 2012 and 2013. The function returns true or false for an input date string.
17:21	gws	aaelony: interesting, what about wrapping http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/util/TimeZone.html ?
17:24	aaelony	gws: maybe but this suits my purpose better and I find it less confusing.
17:29	nathanic	aaelony: I think you can factor out some redundancy by simply using `or` instead of that `if` and `true` and `some` business. something like:
17:29	nathanic	aaelony: (defn dst? [date-string] (let [date (to-datetime date-string)] (or (within (interval ...) date) (within (interval ...) date) ...))
17:32	aaelony	nathanic: I need it to return false instead of nil for the non-true case though
17:32	nathanic	aaelony: `or` returns true if any of its arguments is truthy. else it returns false.
17:33	aaelony	nathanic: that's correct, but some returns nil when not true
17:34	tbaldridge	nathanic: correction, it returns truthy
17:34	tbaldridge	,(or false nil 42)
17:34	clojurebot	42
17:34	talos	helo is this a sex room?
17:34	mtp	yes
17:34	talos	i am nude
17:34	nathanic	aaelony: you don't need `some` as far as i can tell
17:34	mtp	we have sexpressions
17:34	mtp	(oh 'baby)
17:34	llasram	snort
17:34	mtp	(defn fuck [partner] (let [pants off
17:35	nathanic	tbaldridge: I stand corrected :-)
17:35	llasram	I have been told that the correct pronunciation of s-exp is "sex-p"
17:35	uvtc	hehehehe
17:35	uvtc	Gah. Crude humor catching me off guard here.
17:36	talos	you boring i am going to scala sex room
17:37	talos	#scala
17:37	aaelony	nathanic: probably right. I only added it when (time/date-time 2014 11 02 02) was bombing and became (time/date-time 2014 11 2 02)
17:37	clojurebot	excusez-moi
17:37	nathanic	and regarding `or` returning truthy, I suppose I did know that, because I have done a lot of (let [x (or some-arg-that-might-be-nil default-value-if-that-arg-was-nill)])
17:38	talos	buy room :)
17:50	@technomancy	talos: sod off
17:51	@technomancy	oh, he left
17:51	mtp	technomancy "i chased him out" :)
17:55	@technomancy	mtp: gotta put on your robe and wizard hat
17:56	mtp	or i can just take out my sexpressions
18:07	yeoj___	is there anyway to use a not= and compare the results to multiple items... it's already embedded in a map so i'm not sure.
18:08	yeoj___	It's a beginner question, sorry. pastebin'd here: http://pastebin.com/FBiPtrk8
18:09	yeoj___	i don't think i should be "nesting my filter" because i want to filter on the not= to a coll
18:09	rasmusto	yeoj___: and?
18:10	ucb	yeoj___: you can filter with a set and not
18:10	ucb	yeoj___: like (filter (comp not #{:this :that}) collection)
18:10	ucb	wait
18:10	`cbp	remove? :P
18:10	ucb	,(filter (comp not {:foo :bar}) '(:foo :bar :baz))
18:10	rasmusto	ucb: (remove #{:a :b} coll)
18:10	clojurebot	(:bar :baz)
18:11	ucb	that's probably nicer :)
18:11	rasmusto	you have to be careful about falsey values in the set though
18:11	ucb	and correct
18:11	ucb	yeah, that's what I was thinking
18:11	rasmusto	,(remove #{nil false :a} [nil false true :a :b])
18:11	clojurebot	(nil false true :b)
18:11	yeoj___	geez. lisps bend my brain. in a good way.
18:12	rasmusto	,(remove #{nil false :a} [nil false true :a :b])
18:12	clojurebot	(nil false true :b)
18:12	rasmusto	,(map #{nil false :a} [nil false true :a :b])
18:12	clojurebot	(nil false nil :a nil)
18:12	yeoj___	ucb: the problem
18:12	yeoj___	ucb: the prob is there are two collections
18:13	yeoj___	ucb: i want to filter all results (coll) to make sure it's not any of another collection
18:14	rasmusto	wait a second, now I'm confused about the "set containing falsey values as a predicate" thingy
18:14	rasmusto	how do nil and false get through?
18:15	coventry	yeoj___: Where is the other collection in your pastebin?
18:15	yeoj___	coventry: it's in the comment
18:15	rasmusto	oh, nm, was thinking of filter
18:15	jonasac	i've bumped into this a couple of times now and figured i should ask here in case there is a good way to do this
18:15	yeoj___	coventry: so, i want to filter the results to make sure the schema is not in '("pg_catalog" "information_schema")
18:15	jonasac	i have a function like [x & y]
18:15	jonasac	and i wanto recur on it
18:16	yeoj___	coventry: i'm trying to look at postgres, and return all tables that are interesting. i.e. not system tables. I want to build a database automapper sorta thing, to generate ddl for othre systems based on lookups. (i.e. postgres timestamp -> mssql datetime ) for data migration stuff.
18:16	joegallo	jonasac: and have you run into a problem doing that?
18:17	rasmusto	jonasac: are you wondering about the termination condition?
18:17	rasmusto	(because I am too)
18:17	jonasac	no but i want to do something like (recur ~@y)
18:17	jonasac	if that makes sense
18:17	coventry	yeoj___: Try (remove #(#{"pg_catalog" "information_schema"} (:table_schem %)) (get-sql-metadata...))
18:17	jonasac	since clojure packs y into a vector
18:18	yeoj___	coventry: ok thanks. i'll try to understand that statement. so much to learn. too bad it's not my day job. :/
18:19	coventry	yeoj___: ##(#{0 1} 2)
18:19	lazybot	⇒ nil
18:19	yeoj___	coventry: that works... but i don't exactly understand it yet. But cool beans. thanks.
18:19	coventry	yeoj___: ##(#{0 1} 1)
18:19	lazybot	⇒ 1
18:19	rasmusto	jonasac: would it work to have the second argument be a collection? Do you need the multi-arity thing?
18:20	jonasac	rasmusto: thats the way i usally solve it, but it encouter this quite alot of figured i should see if there is some 'idimatic' way to do this that i just missed or something
18:20	rasmusto	jonasac: that way you can terminate on (empty? coll)
18:20	rasmusto	jonasac: i think it gets weird checking for that condition if you have, say, a nil last element
18:20	rasmusto	so you'd have a [x nil, y '()]
18:21	rasmusto	which means you skip one loop
18:21	jonasac	yeah the last binding will be nil
18:21	jonasac	looks like i'll have to change my ways :p
18:22	rasmusto	i've tried to do fancy vector destructuring with loop/recur, and that termination thing has always felt clunky
18:22	jonasac	yah
18:22	jonasac	working on 4clojure golfing
18:22	rasmusto	ah, that's why you don't use a let :p
18:22	jonasac	yep
18:23	rasmusto	,(filter #{nil false :a} [nil false true :a :b])
18:23	clojurebot	(:a)
18:23	rasmusto	ah, that's what I remember about set-as-a-predicate-with-falsey-elements
18:23	@technomancy	ztellman: you don't work with icylisper any more, do you?
18:30	frozenlock	Is there a function to check if a string 'looks like' a date time?
18:30	frozenlock	The closest I got was to use clj-time and try to unparse using pretty much all formatters :-/
18:31	frozenlock	Parse even
18:32	jonasac	frozenlock: regex ;p
18:48	mdeboard	Man I would love something like clojure's threading macros in javascript. Maybe cljs has this but like (->done (->then promise f1 f2 f3 f4) finalFunc)
18:50	mdeboard	of course cljs uses channels for that sort of logic.
19:07	ztellman	technomancy: sorry for the late reply, but no
19:07	ztellman	haven't talked to him in more than a year
19:08	@technomancy	ztellman: oh, he's (was?) at runa, right
19:08	@technomancy	do you know if he has plans to pick back up with jark?
19:09	ztellman	was, Runa shut down the Bangalore office a while back
19:09	@technomancy	oh, gotcha
19:09	ztellman	and I'm not sure
19:09	@technomancy	grenchman kinda overlaps a lot with jark, but it looks like jark has basically stalled
19:10	ztellman	as far as I know, it was more an exercise in curiosity than scratching any particular itch
19:10	ztellman	so I wouldn't be surprised if it's been abandoned
19:10	@technomancy	yeah, that's what I figured. the nREPL protocol totally changed since it was written, which probably made it difficult to justify putting more work into it.
19:25	coventry	Weird that both jark and grenchman are written in OCaml. Does it have some specifically useful features for this problem?
19:26	bitemyapp	coventry: handy-dandy binaries
19:34	@technomancy	FP, fast startup and (originally) small binaries, but the latter actually doesn't pan out once you use the Jane Street libs
19:35	@technomancy	could have used racket just as well, but wouldn't have learned as much
19:35	@technomancy	racket doesn't compile to native code, but it can still be very small and starts just as quickly
19:36	coventry	bitemyapp: technomancy: Thanks.
20:14	logic_prog	nrepl question ==> I am aware of nrepl-send-string-sync. It is not what I want. I want a command which simulates typing a given string into my repl buffer and hitting enter. In particular, I want this command run right in the nrepl buffer -- and I want it's output sent to the nrepl buffer.
20:15	logic_prog	How do I do the above?
20:20	coventry	You could do it with a macro, which can be bound to function names and keys. http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/KeyboardMacros
20:36	holo	hi
20:42	holo	http://clojure.org/java_interop <- mentions: "Once a type hint has been placed on an identifier or expression, the compiler will try to resolve any calls to methods thereupon at compile time." and https://github.com/clojure/core.typed/wiki/User-Guide mentions: "We use the term "type" to mean static type and "tag" for runtime tags. Types only exist at compile time and are used by the static type system to model runtime invariants and properties….
20:47	Gnosis-	hi holo
20:47	frozenlock	Is there a way, using an embbeded nrepl in a project, to send a message to the user when he connects to the repl?
20:47	holo	i'm planning to use type hints, or core.typed, or schema for more useful documentation.. often i find myself using types in names like something-str
20:47	holo	hi Gnosis-
20:49	holo	probably i'm going to start with type hints and evolve to schema when necessary
20:49	@technomancy	frozenlock: you could do it with an nrepl middleware that watches for op=clone, I think
20:50	frozenlock	technomancy: hmm, I take a look at that, thanks!
20:54	frozenlock	Another totally unrelated question... is there a way to reboot a 'lein run' from inside a repl? I'm thinking of maybe using the System/exit with some kind of shell script that checks if there a java app running, but it feels dirty :-/
20:55	frozenlock	(I said 'lein run', but it might as well be a running uberjar)
21:02	@technomancy	you should be using runit or something to keep the server up anyway
21:02	@technomancy	so System/exit is fine
21:02	mtp	runit is the best <3
21:04	bitemyapp	or upstart.
21:04	bitemyapp	if you hate yourself like I do.
21:04	mtp	upshart does stupid things with stderr
21:04	mtp	like "throws it away"
21:05	bitemyapp	don't get me started.
21:05	bitemyapp	you have to manually dump 2 somewhere in initramfs
21:05	frozenlock	Ahhhh so many things to read about :)
21:05	mtp	that's why i call it upshart
21:05	@technomancy	upstart is infuriating in that it refuses to check updated job config upon restarts; you have to explicitly reload
21:05	@technomancy	I have lost several hours to that, and I hardly use upstart
21:06	bitemyapp	ditto.
21:06	@technomancy	that said, at least it's not systemd
21:06	bitemyapp	technomancy: been fighting monsters lately?
21:06	mtp	i bet you can't guess the unflattering euphemism i have for systemturd
21:06	mtp	i mean systemd
21:06	@technomancy	bitemyapp: just boring rubby
21:06	bitemyapp	technomancy: I was referring to the cowboy hat, but that works too. :)
21:06	bitemyapp	mtp: that's a dysphemism.
21:07	@technomancy	cowboy ... hat?
21:07	@technomancy	oh oops
21:07	mtp	bitemyapp‘ you are, of course, correct :)
21:07	@technomancy	yeah, there was a #scala tcroll
21:07	bitemyapp	really?
21:07	bitemyapp	Scala trolls have been trolling me at work.
21:07	bitemyapp	They're trying to rope me into some kind of retarded "show down" at a meeting
21:08	bitemyapp	It has taken immense amounts of self-control to just ignore them.
21:09	technomancy	he actually left before I realized he had joined, but I have join/parts hidden
21:10	bitemyapp	if I have to go back to deploying Python apps after only having to concern myself with firing up a jar and a database I am going to cry.
21:10	technomancy	a jar and a database and upstart
21:11	bitemyapp	okay, yes
21:11	bitemyapp	but upstart is a given even with Python.
21:11	OlegYch8	technomancy: what makes you think he was a "scala" troll
21:12	technomancy	OlegYch8: he seemed to imply he preferred the company of the #scala channel
21:12	technomancy	maybe he just meant he thought he'd get more of a rise out of them
21:12	TimMc	That was my interpretation.
21:13	mtp	i assume he wanted sex
21:14	mtp	but we only had sexp
21:14	mtp	does scala have sex?
21:14	bitemyapp	mtp: Scala only has SEXML DSLs.
21:14	OlegYch8	heh
21:14	TimMc	No, I believe it, too is a genderless construct.
21:15	OlegYch8	jfyi he has no relation to #scala
21:18	gfredericks	so if you make a lib that has some specialty types and wants to make them serializable via data readers, the best approach is to just recommend an entry for data_readers.clj in the README?
21:18	gfredericks	i.e., make it not work by default?
21:21	rlb	So I have a program that only includes cheshire and clj-http and then retrieves a url, parses the json body, and prints it, and it takes about 2.5s (as compared to 1.0s for a no-op clojure program). Is that expected, or is there something I might be doing wrong? (running via "java -jar uberjar").
21:24	technomancy	OlegYch8: sorry for besmirching that channel =)
21:25	dnolen	rlb: did you AOT?
21:27	rlb	dnolen: hmm, not sure, possibly not -- lein is complaining about AOT (needing :aot :all in the :uberjar profile), but "lein new app" did put this in the project: ":profiles {:uberjar {:aot :all}}", which looked somwhat like what lein was asking for.
21:27	rlb
21:27	rlb	I'll need to learn a bit more about AOT.
21:27	dnolen	rlb: but also what are you trying to test here, writing shell scripts w/ Clojure?
21:28	rlb	dnolen: yep -- in some cases, clojure's fast enough, so I use it, but in others, I have to revert to python.
21:28	rlb	Since I hadn't used this lib combination yet, just wondered if I might be doing something wrong.
21:28	rlb	(python or whatever)
21:28	frozenlock	Last time I needed to make a quick and dirty graph from a timeseries, the easiest way was with incanter. Is it still the case?
21:28	dnolen	rlb: yeah startup is going to dominate for trivial things unless you AOT, even then you're still going to lose a second or so
21:29	dnolen	rlb: well startup + compile time
21:29	OlegYch8	technomancy: no worries
21:29	rlb	I'm ok in some cases with runtimes close to 1.0s (and of course longer if it's a long running program), but in this case, a base of 2.5s may be too high.
21:29	technomancy	rlb: you could try grenchman if you don't mind keeping a daemon running
21:29	rlb	technomancy: right
21:30	rlb	technomancy: I also saw someone post unixdomain nrepl (re previous discussion)
21:31	rlb	Does the fact that lein's complaining about AOT during "lein uberjar" mean that I probably don't have all the right bits set?
21:32	frozenlock	Wtf... I just realized we are Friday. I must have lost a day somewhere in the week... o_O
21:36	holo	heh.. :) programmers always think weeks are too short
21:36	ruzu	do you feel... probed?
21:37	ruzu	victims of... probing... sometimes describe a loss of time.
21:37	technomancy	rlb: there's a bug in the warning criteria; should be fixed in a release tomorrow
21:37	mtp	ruzu‘ haha
21:37	frozenlock	Hmm... I should check for new scars...
21:37	rlb	technomancy: oh, ok thanks.
21:39	technomancy	rlb: just check the jar file for .class files
21:40	holo	this image came to my mind: http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5202/5255814637_274168a8dd_z.jpg
21:40	rlb	technomancy: yep, the main namespace has class files.
21:57	dnolen	being able to step debug CLJS is a pretty freaking amazing time saver
21:58	gf3	:D
21:59	dnolen	if you just use whitespace optimization, you get sensible locals and everything
21:59	muhoo	wat, did source maps happen to cljs while i wasn't looking?
21:59	dnolen	muhoo: yeah a couple of weeks now
22:01	gf3	dnolen: Although I couldn't get them working the other day
22:01	akurilin	bitemyapp, ping. How do you prefer people to filter by method with bulwark? As in, do you want users to wrap the middleware in their own middleware that checks for method, or is there something in the lib that can do it for you?
22:02	dnolen	gf3: use Canary it just works, don't need browser REPL
22:02	gf3	dnolen: That being said, I didn't try very hard because I was in a rush for the ClojureCup
22:02	bitemyapp	akurilin: the functions you're passing to bulwark can do that or you can do it at the middleware application level
22:03	bitemyapp	akurilin: we discussed basically this exact same thing with pathing and the answer was the same then.
22:03	bitemyapp	either make the fn handler for the whitelist/blacklist check the content of the request or selectively apply the closed over middleware.
22:04	bitemyapp	there's nothing in the lib to do this because the lib shouldn't concern itself with those kinds of details. It's just functions.
22:06	ruzu	anyone use La Clojure? i'm a total newb but it's been seeming pretty nice
22:06	bobwilliams	user=> (take 4 (iterate #(map + [0 -1] %) [5 5]))
22:06	bobwilliams	([5 5] (5 4) (5 3) (5 2))
22:06	bobwilliams	why is only 1st item a vector?
22:07	bobwilliams	thanks for any help
22:07	bitemyapp	Kinda caremad cljs has a step debugger before we do.
22:07	bitemyapp	I mean, anything for the greater glory of Clojure, but god damn.
22:09	TimMc	"caremad"?
22:11	TEttinger	bobwilliams, that's the type of the first arg, map later returns seqs.
22:12	TEttinger	##(take 4 (iterate #(mapv + [0 -1] %) [5 5]))
22:12	lazybot	⇒ ([5 5] [5 4] [5 3] [5 2])
22:12	ruzu	what is lazybot running?
22:13	TEttinger	##(clojure-version)
22:13	lazybot	⇒ "1.4.0"
22:13	bobwilliams	TEttinger: big thanks!!
22:13	TEttinger	np
22:13	TEttinger	gotta go
22:13	bobwilliams	later
22:15	akurilin	bitemyapp, so if I wanted to only check for say POSTs and want to use the list of rules inside of blackwater, I could whitelist everything but POST, right?
22:16	bitemyapp	akurilin: you've moved to a different library methinks
22:16	bitemyapp	akurilin: do you mean bulwark?
22:16	akurilin	shoot, bulwark.
22:17	bitemyapp	akurilin: the function you pass to bulwark can whitelist anything you want. You can make an anonymous function generator that works against a spec of allowed path and HTTP method combos if you want.
22:17	akurilin	I don't think there's another way without a separate middleware wrapper of getting "only check % of hits on this set of request conditions"
22:17	akurilin	*#
22:18	akurilin	blacklist/whitelist tests are hit # agnostic, correct?
22:18	akurilin	*hit count
22:19	bitemyapp	akurilin: aye.
22:19	bitemyapp	akurilin: that's getting into throttling behavior.
22:20	bitemyapp	akurilin: you realize you can generate an arbitrary number of "protect-middlewares" right?
22:20	bitemyapp	akurilin: and apply them selectively to routes or groups of routes at will
22:20	bitemyapp	that's the whole point of the closures, they're more powerful than a single "protect-middleware" with the muggle-mode atom config
22:21	bitemyapp	akurilin: also do you really need to be this persnickety with bulwark? What are you protecting?
22:22	akurilin	bitemyapp, that's fair with the multiple protect-middleware, just wrap handlers inside of POST with them, then you don't have to bother right checking for method, eh?
22:23	bitemyapp	Right.
22:23	bitemyapp	akurilin: that's part of the whole point of Ring's design. Just wrap whatever you want.
22:23	bitemyapp	It's very general and powerful once you realize what it's offering you.
22:34	akurilin	bitemyapp, I hear ya.
22:34	akurilin	also reminds me how I need to nuke liberator from this one page so that I can actually use that approach :)
22:35	coventry	Anyone gotten jswat working with clojure, as described here? http://dev.clojure.org/display/doc/Debugging Does it work with a "lein repl" session? "lein repl" with the given jvm-opts does allow you to connect to jswat and set a breakpoint, but I can't figure out how to hit that breakpoint. Just (require)ing a file which hits it from the repl doesn't seem to work.
22:39	coventry	Holy shit, I got it to hit the breakpoint.
22:42	coventry	Is there some way to evaluate clojure forms in the evaluator window? I guess it's not hugely useful without that.
22:42	gf3	bitemyapp: How do you typically deploy your composure apps?
22:47	coventry	How do you say (eval (read-string "clojure code")) in java?
22:49	Foxboron	I just saw rich posting "tools.analyze" on github. Is that a possible solution for messy stacktraces?
22:54	dnolen	Foxboron: unrelated, that's for Bronsa's Clojure-in-Clojure work
22:54	bitemyapp	gf3: http-kit, uberjar, lein-otf or :aot :all, a script.
22:54	bitemyapp	gf3: if you get more specific I can be more helpful. I actually deployed a Compojure application a few hours ago at work.
22:55	coventry	jswat hung a few seconds after complaining about an exception from evaluation of clojure.lang.Compiler.eval(clojure.lang.RT.readString("wrapped-internals")). The hanging might be a coincidence. The internal call to readString ran without errors.
22:55	gf3	bitemyapp: Are you using nginx?
22:56	bitemyapp	gf3: I do with public apps that have static assets.
22:56	bitemyapp	gf3: this one is an internal API server - no point.
22:57	bitemyapp	I make a point of copying the static assets to the nginx servers so they can serve that content directly.
22:57	gf3	bitemyapp: Ahh—do you know of any decent/current articles re: proxying from nginx?
22:58	bitemyapp	gf3: I end up googling it every single with reasonable amounts of success in finding something about reverse proxying in nginx. I don't have anything on-hand, sorry./
22:58	gf3	bitemyapp: np <3
23:06	Foxboron	dnolen: that explains it. Dosnt dim the interesting part tho
23:29	holo	,(str \n)
23:29	clojurebot	"n"
23:29	holo	howto => "\n"?
23:30	xeqi	,"\\n"
23:30	clojurebot	"\\n"
23:30	holo	xeqi, thanks, but char input is mandatory
23:31	xeqi	,\newline
23:31	clojurebot	\newline
23:31	xeqi	,(str \newline)
23:31	clojurebot	"\n"
23:31	holo	(inc xeqi) ; awesomeness!
23:31	lazybot	⇒ 9
23:37	TimMc	&(filter #(< 2 (->> % pr-str count)) (map char (range 0 256)))
23:37	lazybot	⇒ (\backspace \tab \newline \formfeed \return \space)
23:40	holo	(inc TimMc) ; thanks, you saved me further inevitable bugs
23:40	lazybot	⇒ 48
23:53	muhoo	~primitive
23:53	clojurebot	Gabh mo leithscéal?
23:54	muhoo	in this document, they talk about "primitive support". https://github.com/Prismatic/eng-practices/blob/master/20130926-data-representation.md . what do they mean by "primitive"?
23:56	coventry	http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/java/nutsandbolts/datatypes.html
23:56	xeqi	muhoo: primitive support refers to values that are not objects. like ints, longs, doubles, etc
23:57	muhoo	ah, thanks