#clojure – 2013-09-29

2013-09-29

00:02	m00nligh_	chord: You're going to clone the whole game? If so, it's a big project
00:02	chord	m00nligh_ we are going to not clone the entire game but make what starcraft 2 should have been
00:02	chord	nightfly: so you gonna help?
00:03	arrdem	nightfly, m00nligh_: it's a trap
00:03	nightfly	chord: no, but rather than just tell you to fuck off I'd like to least give you somewhat okay advice first.
00:04	m00nligh_	Does anyone ever use hadoop and hbase together, store the result in reduce phase to hbase directly?
00:04	dcolish	yup
00:04	chord	arrdem: why do you hate starcraft
00:04	dcolish	well not to Hbase directly, to hfiles
00:05	m00nligh_	dcolish: yeah
00:05	m00nligh_	But then I should use another function to process the result file?
00:05	dcolish	you can just bulk load it into hbase
00:05	dcolish	hey nightfly
00:05	dcolish	didnt know you liked clojure too
00:06	m00nligh_	dcolish: bulk?
00:06	dcolish	http://hbase.apache.org/book/arch.bulk.load.html
00:06	m00nligh_	dcolish: To read a file on hdfs is different? Is it right?
00:06	dcolish	its how we do backfills
00:07	dcolish	if you've ever used copyTable, that does batched row inserts directly to hbase using mapreduce
00:07	dcolish	its performance is a great example reason why you dont really want to do that
00:08	m00nligh_	clojure-hadoop's does not support TableOutputFormat ?
00:08	tshauck	hi, this is a simple question, but if I have core.clj as my main file, then I have func.clj and a function in that file, how can I use that fucntion in core.clj?
00:08	dcolish	that would be a huge oversight
00:10	mgaare	can't tell if chord is serious
00:11	chord	mgaare: www.github.com/chord-rts/rts PROOF THAT I PUT IN SOME MINIMAL EFFORT
00:11	m00nligh_	dcolish: Do you use the clojure-hadoop package or use the Java's hadoop package?
00:11	mgaare	saw that, still can't tell if serious
00:11	chord	mgaare: what makes you still doubt?
00:12	dcolish	m00nligh_: java's, the clojure-hadoop package doesnt provide any abstraction that would make that worth it
00:12	m00nligh_	So then, we can use any way the java's hadoop and hbase package provided to us, is it right?
00:13	m00nligh_	http://twitch.nervestaple.com/2012/01/12/clojure-hbase/
00:13	m00nligh_	like this post ?
00:13	mgaare	well the whole thing is ridiculous on every level :
00:14	chord	I don't know if I want to hear your reasons, its better if I live in fairy tale land where I believe i can do ANYTHING
00:14	callen	chord: can you live in that fairy tale land outside of IRC?
00:15	Apage43	hm
00:15	m00nligh_	dcolish: So then we can actually use TableOutputFormat to store the result to hbase directly?
00:15	Apage43	buying groceries before 1AM
00:15	Apage43	is apparently a suspicious transaction
00:15	Apage43	and cancels my card
00:16	chord	mgaare so tell me your entire reasoning you were going to explain, I can handle the bad news
00:16	callen	Apage43: lol
00:17	dcolish	m00nligh_: it really depends on what your goals are for loading data in hbase
00:17	m00nligh_	dcolish: Thank's for you kindly help. I give a detail description of my job
00:17	m00nligh_	What I want to do is to process some log information
00:17	m00nligh_	and store the result into hbase
00:18	m00nligh_	So I want to combine the two phase,
00:18	clojurebot	Titim gan éirí ort.
00:18	m00nligh_	when the reduce finish, the job will store the result into hbase directly
00:19	chord	mgaare are you stil alive?
00:20	mgaare	chord: Ok, I'll bite. I get the impression that you have neither shipped any game before, nor even have a basic familiarity with the tools you propose to use. Starcraft was built by hundreds of people working full time who met both of those qualifications
00:21	chord	mgaare: so you have experience making games, then you're perfect to help me right?
00:21	mgaare	I do not, I am not, I will not
00:22	chord	mgaare but you're an expert at clojure at least right?
00:22	mgaare	I'm gonna see about finding some expertise in gracefully exiting this conversation now
00:23	dcolish	m00nligh_: it has been my experience the bulk load approach is faster than TableOutputFormat, your results may vary. You should really explore both with tests and determine what suits your needs best
00:24	chord	why does everyone hate starcraft!!!
00:24	m00nligh_	dcolish: OK. Thank's for your kindly help.
00:25	dcolish	no problem, sorry i cant say more. either approach should be straightforward to implement
00:25	m00nligh_	Yes, thanks very much
00:31	chord	mgaare If i show you A* path finding working will you join the project
00:43	chord	mgaare you play dota 2 instead of starcraft?
00:59	ivan	http://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/CLJ-242 vote for the La Clojure highlighting bug
01:03	chord	`cbp help with starcraft project: www.github.com/chord-rts/rts
01:03	[Neurotic]	chord - how come you went with the old style OpenGL?
01:04	chord	[Neurotic] the what old what?
01:05	[Neurotic]	Looking at your OpenGL code
01:05	arrdem	[Neurotic]: you expected a help vampire to have reasonable code?
01:06	chord	[Neurotic] I just learned how to put up an opengl window
01:06	[Neurotic]	arrdem: well, it's not modern OpenGL, but it woul still work
01:06	chord	[Neurotic] if selfish guys like arrdem had taught me how to do modern opengl then it wouldn't have looked like that
01:06	[Neurotic]	chord: check out: http://arcsynthesis.org/gltut/
01:07	[Neurotic]	It'll make your head hurt, but it's a decent primer on modern OpenGL
01:07	chord	[Neurotic] I need to get core of rts game working before bothering to clean up opengl code
01:07	`cbp	dont pull me into this :P
01:07	[Neurotic]	But really, you should probably look into game dev frameworks.
01:07	[Neurotic]	actually, I kinda disagree
01:08	arrdem	yay 200x slowdown using a local datastore!
01:08	[Neurotic]	Integrate with something like http://libgdx.badlogicgames.com/ is probably a better fit anyway
01:08	chord	[Neurotic] so you going to help with my rts project :)
01:08	[Neurotic]	I just did
01:08	[Neurotic]	:D
01:08	chord	[Neurotic] fork the project
01:08	chord	you know you want to
01:09	[Neurotic]	no thanks, got enough on my plate
01:09	chord	SUCH AS
01:09	[Neurotic]	But good luck :D
01:09	chord	tell me what you are working on
01:10	chord	[Neurotic] ANSWER ME
01:10	[Neurotic]	Actually, anyone got some conventions regarding what namespace they put things in when working on clojurescript for a clojure backed app?
01:10	[Neurotic]	Do they tend to keep them them similar? I'm trying to decide what to use.
01:11	chord	`cbp: why don't you want to help me?
01:12	arrdem	[Neurotic]: the pattern seems to be to seperate cljs source from clj, so I don't see an issue with a shared naming scheme. That said having a .client.* and a .server.* to preserve the seperation is probably a good thing.
01:14	[Neurotic]	arrdem: yeah, I have them in seperate source files... the server code is foo.x.y.z and since it's an angular front end, I'm going with foo.ng.x.y.z .. (I can't be bothered refactoring the server side namespace)
01:16	ivan	chord was banned from #gamedev, #bitcoin, #litecoin, #RubyOnRails, and #haskell-game this month
01:16	arrdem	well there's a shocker...
01:16	ivan	truly we are buddhas
01:16	ambrosebs	haha
01:16	chord	ivan how cold you possibly know that
01:16	chord	thats all a lie
01:16	chord	you just made that shit up
01:17	arrdem	ivan: the tranquility of this channel is bounded only by myself and callen
01:36	[Neurotic]	okay, this is weird (?) doing `lein cljsbuild once` is trying to compile my clojure code in src, not in src-cljs ... at least it seems to be, as it keeps falling over from not being able to find the v8 native for dieter. I'm officially confused.
01:36	[Neurotic]	dieter is only used in the server code
01:37	[Neurotic]	That's a good question - should cljs have a seperate project.clj/
01:37	[Neurotic]	?
01:51	chord	I am addicted to the idea of starcraft clone made with clojure
01:51	chord	you guys need to help me make it
01:52	Apage43	https://www.google.com/search?q=rehabilitation+centers
01:52	chord	very funny apage43
01:56	chord	Apage43 what projects are you currently working on?
01:57	Apage43	psh i'm playing video games
02:03	chord	which game Apage43
02:04	[Neurotic]	Does anyone else create a profile specific for lein-cljsbuild, to remove unwanted/needed dependencies?
02:07	jonasen	dnolen: core.async should work now (on cljsfiddle)
02:09	Pupnik__	chord: dont you think it would be better if you use haskell
02:10	arrdem	Pupnik__: #haskell banned him
02:10	arrdem	Pupnik__: no help comming from there
02:10	Pupnik__	i cant imagine why
02:17	arrdem	hehehe
02:18	[Neurotic]	So I'm starting to wonder if I should have seperate lein profiles, one for 'server', for the clojure code, and one for 'client' for the clojurescript (since they both sit under the same project.clj) - anyone see any issues with that? or am I looking at this the wrong way somehow?
02:18	[Neurotic]	Basically as a way to manage the dependencies of each seperately
02:30	piranha	what's the good way to do (into {} [:a "b" :c "d"])? partition returns lists rather than vectors and that seems to fail...
02:32	ambrosebs	piranha: (apply hash-map coll)
02:32	piranha	oh!
02:32	piranha	ambrosebs: thanks! :)
02:32	ambrosebs	np
02:33	callen	ambrosebs: congrats on the so-far successful fund raising.
02:33	ambrosebs	cheers callen!
02:34	callen	ambrosebs: I look forward to seeing what you can do to make the Haskell users in my life shut up :)
02:34	ambrosebs	haha
02:36	OtherRaven	quick question for you guys: is it better to put multiple ref-set statements in the same dosync, or use a different dosync for each one?
02:36	Pupnik__	ambrosebs: what are you fund raising for?
02:36	ambrosebs	Pupnik__: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/typed-clojure/x/4545030
03:28	christopher	does anyone know of a good posix layer for clojure?
03:29	christopher	specifically something that gives convenient access to unix domain sockets
04:48	chord	www.github.com/chord-rts/rts
04:48	chord	please help the project
04:52	serycjon	Hello!
04:53	serycjon	I try to learn clojure and I am using vim with fireplace plugin for clj programming, but today it started to throw strange errors at me
04:53	serycjon	Error detected while processing function <SNR>30_print_last..fireplace#echo_session_eval..fireplace#session_eval..<SNR>30_eval..189:
04:53	serycjon	line 38:
04:53	serycjon	E605: Exception not caught: Error running Clojure: Error: Could not find or load main class clojure.main^@
04:54	serycjon	When i try to eval simple (ns .....)
04:54	serycjon	Any idea what could be wrong?
04:54	serycjon	How to fix it? Thanks!
04:58	piranha	if I have (:require [ns1.ns2.x :as x] [ns1.ns2.y :as y]), can I make it somehow shorter and less repetetive?
04:58	arrdem	piranha: yes.
04:58	arrdem	piranha: you can rewrite it as (ns1.ns2 [x :as x] [y :as y])
04:58	piranha	arrdem: thanks, let me try...
04:59	piranha	can I do maybe (n1.ns2 x y z) ?
04:59	arrdem	piranha: not that I know of.
05:00	piranha	ok, something to try out :-)
05:00	christopher	piranha : iirc that is equiv to [ns1.ns2.x :as ns1.ns2.x] and same for y
05:00	piranha	oh :(
05:00	piranha	ok
05:00	arrdem	christopher: yeah that's right.
05:01	arrdem	piranha: the :as is really a special case for renaming, by default nothing is ever aliased or renamed.
05:01	piranha	I see
05:10	chord	so question can I actually implement efficiently the data structures used by games using a functional language like clojuer
05:12	arrdem	chord: no there's a reason that the games industry is C and C++ to this day.
05:13	chord	arrdem: so you're an expert at making games, show me the list of games you've made
05:14	arrdem	chord: I'd carry this conversation but it wastes my time and ups your ranking in my clojurecup submission. don't worry, I have a ticket with your name on it.
05:14	hfaafb	chord: depends what the requirements of your game are. you can write tic tac toe in clojure with no concern to performance
05:14	indigo	arrdem: Good luck in clojure cup :)
05:15	mtp	the games industry is a software charnel house
05:15	arrdem	hfaafb: you could write tic tac toe naively for a stack machine with no registers and still get reasonable performance
05:15	mtp	i could write tic-tac-toe for a human
05:15	mtp	and still get reasonable performance
05:15	arrdem	(inc mtp)
05:15	lazybot	⇒ 1
05:15	hfaafb	you can probably get away with writing some basic 2d games in clojure if you figure out where your bottlenecks are
05:15	mtp	performance is fucking boring
05:15	mtp	nobody cares until you measure it
05:15	arrdem	(dec mtp)
05:15	lazybot	⇒ 0
05:15	mtp	NET GAIN: 0
05:16	arrdem	mtp: downvotes 'cause I just spent two hours profiling my CC submission's database crap.
05:16	mtp	sorry, i'm overreacting to a $WORK condition
05:16	arrdem	lol
05:16	mtp	$WORK only cares about one thing, and you'll never guess
05:16	arrdem	$CPU_CYCLES?
05:17	mtp	no, they care that the CPU_CYCLES are enough to make the PR happy
05:17	mtp	and i think that pr's bad
05:18	mtp	(we'll delay a release because the "performance numbers" don't match what they've already sold; we won't actually fix problems that (if fixed) would allow us to sell better performance)
05:18	mtp	((and i'm overreacting to that; carry on))
05:19	chord	for an rts game like starcraft what will be the most performance intensive part?
05:19	chord	pathfinding?
05:19	arrdem	chord: no, far and away the rendering engine.
05:20	chord	arrdem: what do you mean, isn't that the gpu
05:20	chord	what do you mean rendering engine
05:21	chord	you mean the rendering the gpu does?
05:21	arrdem	chord: I wish I was dead drunk, because I'd have so much fun mocking your apparent ignorance in public.
05:22	chord	arrdem: no one else on the channel is mocking so obviously they're all just as confused
05:22	indigo	Or maybe just tired
05:22	arrdem	chord: no everyone else is either asleep, hacking for clojurecup or smart enough to not feed the trolls.
05:22	chord	indigo: explain NOW
05:22	indigo	chord: So demanding.
05:23	arrdem	indigo: were it not for the existance of a github repo in clojure and some other stuff I'd swear he's just a bot.
05:23	mtp	arrdem‘ yeah i'm kinda out of words too
05:24	indigo	Lol
05:24	chord	arrdem: AH HAH SO YOU ADMIT LOOKING AT www.github.com/chord-rts/rts
05:24	arrdem	chord: if it would save my mother's life I wouldn't read your copypasta code
05:25	chord	so you concede
05:25	chord	SO EXPLAIN RENDERING ENGINE
05:25	gws	chord: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendering_engine
05:25	arrdem	chord: concede what? that you're a blithering idot at a desk somwhere with a script for wasting otherwise productive peoples time?
05:26	chord	so where does the performance go into the rendering engine
05:26	gws	rendering
05:26	chord	thats the gpu taking the hit right?
05:26	gws	The core functionality typically provided by a game engine includes a rendering engine (“renderer”) for 2D or 3D graphics, a physics engine or collision detection (and collision response), sound, scripting, animation, artificial intelligence, networking, streaming, memory management, threading, localization support, and a scene graph.
05:27	chord	we are talking about starcraft clone only
05:27	chord	we don't need fancy AAA game shit
05:28	chord	so I am asking for a starcraft clone where is all the cpu and memory problems going to come from?
05:29	chord	path finding is apparently not one of them
05:29	chord	so gws can you explain where the problems will be specifically for starcraft clone
05:30	serycjon	chord: just sit down and try to write it :) Maybe one day you will understand what we are trying to tell you...
05:30	chord	I asked a question, the only way I can understand an answer is if someone answers it...
05:30	mtp	chord‘ no
05:30	mtp	you are asking the wrong question
05:31	mtp	and you're not listening to the answer
05:31	chord	not listening to which answer
05:31	mtp	if you listen to the answer (which is sometimes "you are asking the wrong question"), you can learn to ask the right one, but YOU have to change
05:32	mtp	and i think i've made my point to enough people, so, good night :)
05:32	indigo	Yeah, going to go sleep too
05:33	arrdem	99.2%...
05:34	chord	so you guys don't know the answer to my question in other words
05:35	gws	chord: i would guess, but can't prove, that it is possible to make a performant SC1 clone in clojure that's performant enough on modern hardware to be playable
05:35	arrdem	chord: I'd like to point out that in 718 messages to this unfortunate channel you have yet to pose a reasonable question or accept criticism. The average person gets an answer in three messages.
05:35	arrdem	chord: belive me I'm counting.
05:35	chord	gws: because of which part?
05:35	gws	i don't understand the question
05:36	chord	teacher told me that there is no dumb question blame my teachers
05:36	chord	why is a performant sc1 clone in clojure not possible
05:36	gws	did you read what i wrote?
05:36	arrdem	gws: no, no he didn't
05:37	arrdem	damnit I forgot the end case on my loop/recur
05:37	arrdem	99.98% and never gonna end.
05:37	chord	so which part of starcraft 2 is the problem in a reimplementation using clojure
05:38	serycjon	chord: the programmer...
05:38	arrdem	(inc serycjon)
05:38	lazybot	⇒ 1
05:38	chord	you guys haven't actually answered whats the big deal with clojure
05:39	chord	show me a benchmark
05:39	arrdem	chord: here's the playform you should lear.
05:39	arrdem	chord: https://www.usenix.org/conference/woot13/page-fault-weird-machine-lessons-instruction-less-computation
05:41	chord	gws you gotta help me, your'e the only one answering
05:44	gws	chord: it's possible to create a performant game on the JVM (see minecraft if i'm not mistaken) so it should be theoretically possible to create a playable SC clone in clojure
05:45	piranha	arrdem: eh, it seems this "optimization" of namespaces is only possible in clojure, but on in clojurescript
05:45	chord	didn't you just say the opposite
05:45	gws	no
05:46	callen	gws: calling Minecraft performant on the client or server-side is a bit of a stretch.
05:46	arrdem	callen: it performs well... at wasting ram!
05:46	gws	apparently plenty of people think it's playable
05:47	chord	gws: ok so can all of those imperative data structures be done in a performant way functionally?
05:47	chord	gws: that are used for games
05:47	callen	Nobody really knows for sure.
05:47	callen	Papers on FRP attack the problem from one direction, industry practice from another.
05:48	chord	callen: WTF HOW CAN NOBODY KNOW
05:48	callen	they'll meet in the middle eventually.
05:48	arrdem	we hope
05:48	callen	arrdem: I trust in the pain of gamedev to be a good incentive.
05:48	serycjon	chord: those who care are too lazy to quit irc and start programming :)
05:48	arrdem	callen: gamedev has bigger issues than functional vs. imperative :\|
05:48	chord	ok but worst case scenario is that 99% of my code will be clojure and 1% will be in Java so I can do the imperative stuff?
05:51	gws	chord: maybe pick up a book on clojure or something
05:51	chord	gws: I am going to do the generic thing of winging it along the way
05:52	chord	serycjon and arrdem: I am going to prove you both wrong by implementing a* in clojure PROVING TO YOU THAT I CAN MAKE PROGRESS
05:52	borkdude	since no-one in #emacs answers my question, I'll just try it here. This function should, after its execution show the same buffer as where I started it, right? https://www.refheap.com/19131
05:52	callen	arrdem: certainly.
05:52	borkdude	it doesn't, points me to the archive file. what to do about it?
05:52	callen	arrdem: good luck telling Haskell users that.
05:52	gws	chord: then do it, and link the results when you're done
05:53	chord	gws: if I show you guys a working a* then you gys are gonna stop making fun of me right?
05:53	TEttinger	borkdude, I have no idea how emacs works
05:54	TEttinger	we're having troll problems now, unfortunately
05:54	christopher	borkdude: are you trying to switch to a buffer and execute some stuff and switch back? use with-current-buffer to do that
05:55	scottj	borkdude: maybe save-excursion or save-window-excursion
05:55	gws	chord: can't speak for anyone else. good luck. i'm gonna stop chatting - just interacting with you has probably got me on a few people's /ignore
05:56	borkdude	christopher scottj I didn't even needed the wrapped save-current-buffer in my previous version of emacs, but I think org-mode might have changed org-archive-subtree
05:56	TEttinger	gws, I still care about you
05:56	gws	TEttinger: means a lot taps chest twice in quick succession
05:56	TEttinger	shies away
05:58	arrdem	'night gents
05:58	borkdude	scottj ah, save-window-excursion is the only thing that worked thanks
06:00	chord	I am going to prove you all wrong by reading this http://theory.stanford.edu/~amitp/GameProgramming/
06:05	callen	arrdem: you're sleeping?
06:48	christopher	i've hacked support for nrepl to use unix domain sockets. this allows you to use unix permissions to protect embedded nrepls running on production servers. right now with tcp local ports, if any process running as any user is compromised, your nrepl can be compromised too.
06:48	christopher	i'd love for people to help me test it: https://github.com/monsanto/nreplds
06:52	john2x	I'm getting a compiler exception with this form. It seems there's something wrong with my if form? I'm blind as to what it is though. https://www.refheap.com/19132
06:54	john2x	is it because I'm recursively calling the function?
06:59	john2x	nope, tried removing the function call.
07:57	oskarth	(System/getENV "MYENV") returns nil in my repl / server log, but in my terminal it gives me the right value. What's wrong?
07:59	christopher	often daemonizers will clear the environment, sudo does this too on some systems
08:01	oskarth	christopher: I assumed that restarting with 'lein ring server' would catch up with ENV that's set. What else do I need to do to get it up to date?
08:01	christopher	oskarth i actually don't know much about lein ring server, when i speak of daemonizers i mean stuff like start-stop-daemon and upstart
08:01	christopher	sorry
08:02	oskarth	I see, thanks for the pointers though
08:08	oskarth	got it to work. The problem was that I didn't source it globally. I solved it by simply exporting it in my dev-terminal-session before running 'lein ring server'.
08:10	naeg	what exact advantages does typed clojure have? except the obvious type checking before runtime
08:10	Oddman	anyone know if there's a nicer templating approach to HTML than hiccup?
08:12	christopher	oddman: have you tried enlive?
08:13	Oddman	I haven't, no - but had a look
08:13	Oddman	was wondering if there was one that was HTML focused?
08:13	Oddman	rather than having code generate html
08:13	jonasen	Oddman: https://github.com/davidsantiago/stencil is pretty good
08:13	Oddman	which I've never been a huge fan of except for rather complex requirements
08:13	oskarth	Oddman: enlive is afaik html focused
08:13	squidz	Oddman: maybe mustache? I think there was a library out there called clostache
08:14	Oddman	oh nice, that could work
08:14	christopher	enlive is html focused; you fill in the template using xpath style selectors
08:15	Oddman	yup stencil could be what I want :)
08:15	Oddman	thanks all
08:53	jonasen	dnolen: Another core.async example: http://cljsfiddle.net/fiddle/jonase.snake (or http://cljsfiddle.net/view/jonase.snake)
08:57	dnolen	jonasen: nice
09:48	lunk	https://github.com/lunkdjedi/clj-ta-lib
09:48	lunk	fun little weekend project
09:59	dobry-den	hiccup takes discipline.
10:01	dobry-den	much easier to forget that you're ostensibly trying to keep your view layer dumb when it's just another clojure datastructure :(
10:02	dobry-den	Oddman: clostache seems more recent+popular.
10:12	Oddman	dobry-den cheers :)
10:28	john2x	I'm getting a compiler exception with this form. It seems there's something wrong with my if form? I'm blind as to what it is though. https://www.refheap.com/19132
10:32	dobry-den	john2x: i think you have to bind the caught exception to something like 'e'
10:34	dobry-den	think your if statement needs to be 3rd arg to catch
10:37	john2x	dobry-den: thanks! that was it
10:39	john2x	is it possible to dynamically create functions, with their names coming from a list of strings?
10:39	darrickw	john2x: yes, with a macro
10:41	darrickw	(defmacro defthing [s] `(defn ~(symbol s) [] 42))
10:41	darrickw	Hey, I've got a core.logic question, or maybe a problem. I've written a simple relational parser which works ok in clojure core.logic, but has a problem in ClojureScript.
10:42	john2x	darrickw: thanks!
10:42	AimHere	john2x, darrickw, for suitably static values of 'dynamically'. If the strings are generated at runtime, then that won't work, of course
10:43	darrickw	sure it will, as long as you aren't generating them in clojurescript...
10:43	john2x	Ah the strings are defined by me, I think this'll do. I guess I'll be writing my first ever macro. yey
10:44	darrickw	Re my core.logic problem. Here is the expected result:
10:44	darrickw	{:type :model, :model [tweet], :child {:type :rel, :rel responses}}
10:44	darrickw	and here is the actual result:
10:44	darrickw	{:type :model, :model <lvar:value_238>, :child <lvar:child_241>}
10:45	darrickw	The lvars appear only in clojurescript. If I inspect them, I can see that they were unified.
10:45	darrickw	Here is a gist: https://gist.github.com/pangloss/6752822
10:49	ambrosebs	Racket-con! http://t.co/7Up5epRa2g
10:50	darrickw	Live stream from an SLR?
10:50	ambrosebs	SLR? It's in Northeastern :)
10:50	darrickw	just noticed that every now and then it does a crazy little defocus/refocus
10:51	ambrosebs	yea we're trying to get their attention on #racket :P
10:51	ambrosebs	I think the camera operator is watching the talk
10:53	darrickw	ambrosebs: you do core.logic stuff, don't you?
10:53	ambrosebs	darrickw: a bit yes
10:53	ambrosebs	never in cljs tho
10:54	darrickw	oh yeah… still the behaviour seems strange to me. Do you think I should just file a bug on that?
10:54	darrickw	Is there a tracker?
10:55	darrickw	oh nevermind, I found it...
10:55	darrickw	I guess I willl just file a bug.
10:57	ambrosebs	darrickw: probably yes.
10:57	dobry-den	I've made decent progress replicating the patterns i'm used to from Rails into my Clojure app.
10:57	dobry-den	i want to eventually extract it. i'll name it Clojy on Clails.
11:12	juliangindi	For some reason, the function I am trying memozie (to reduce API calls) keeps hitting the API server. Could someone give this a look and see what they think: https://gist.github.com/Julian25/6748965
11:38	`cbp	juliangindi: how are you telling that the server is getting hit?
11:38	`cbp	juliangindi: also don't use def inside a function
11:38	juliangindi	I'm looking at the API's server console
11:45	sveri	hi, i am trying to parse xml and i was able to get something running, this: http://pastebin.com/JDN6DUDj is the code that gets me one subtag of <item> however, i need all the subtags and its content of item, how would i do that?
11:49	juliangindi	cbp: any idea what could be going wrong?
11:51	`cbp	juliangindi: sec
11:51	borkdude	Where would the grep function from old string contrib be nowadays?
11:52	`cbp	juliangindi: sorry give me an hour and ill get back to you
11:52	juliangindi	cbp: no worries. Thanks! Much appreciated
11:53	borkdude	I guess I can just copy it
12:05	mischov	sveri: you might check out enlive or laser for some examples of how they go about selecting html.
12:19	vijaykiran	ehd: Mine is built with Pedestal
12:26	`cbp	juliangindi: does (println (core-memo/memoized? attempt-request-memo)) print true?
12:28	juliangindi	it does
12:33	sveri	mischov: thank you, i will try that
12:37	`cbp	juliangindi: then i don't know haha. It should be getting memoized. I did an example with clojure.core.memoized/ttl and it memoized correctly. Also looked at the source and didnt find anything weird there, you must not be calling it with the same arguments
12:38	juliangindi	cbp: yeah that might be it. I'll run a few tests. Thanks a ton for looking it over though, much appreciated
12:39	`cbp	np
13:05	napper	what is a good document that'll give me a solid understanding of how clojurescript implements and compartmentalizes IJavascript. I would like to know how clojurescript makes decisions for the namespace. (ns)
13:06	napper	Or if you could point me to where this is beging done in the source, is equally welcome. I cannot seem to find it.
13:10	seangrov`	napper: You mean src/clj/cljs/closure.clj?
13:10	seangrov`	Javascript namespaces are basically implemented (from what I understand) via google closure's module system of `provides` and `requires`
13:14	napper	seangrov, something more along the lines of: https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/blob/master/src/clj/cljs/compiler.clj#L865 - I suppose all I needed to do was pose the question. I should invest in a rubber ducky.
13:14	mtp	(you're the one)
13:18	seangrov`	napper: Yeah, that's quite a bit earlier in the process
13:33	napper	seangrov, I see...hum
13:35	seangrov`	Alright, time to do this pedestal thing
13:36	seangrov`	Hopefully it's less than a day to grok some of the ideas
13:45	rurumate	dnolen: in clojurescript 0.0-1909 my code doesn't run anymore, chromium says Uncaught TypeError: Cannot call method 'call' of undefined
13:46	rurumate	dnolen: dnolen don't know which version it was before the change, because version info was missing in project.clj
13:50	bbloom	rurumate: have you done a `lien cljsbuild clean` ?
13:55	juliangindi	Why would stringing 'rests' together work and using 'nth' would not. (rest (rest (rest data))) works but not (nth data 3)
13:55	juliangindi	(nth data x) always returns nil
13:58	Kelet	Anyone know how to compile a file with Clojure? I set my CLASSPATH to ".". I (set! compile-path "."). The file is word.clj in current directory, and it is (ns word). When doing (require 'word) or (compile 'word) it always tells me it can't find word.clj or word__init.clj in classpath.
13:59	rurumate	dnolen: bbloom yup; report coming
14:00	rurumate	whoops, should learn to quote
14:19	muhoo	Kelet: use lein
14:23	muhoo	Oddman: also, clabango
14:24	Kelet	muhoo: I do, but I also think it's silly to not know how to compile a file in a programming language.
14:24	muhoo	Kelet: clojure isn't really a language as much as it is a library for the jvm
14:25	muhoo	it's not like it's got its own compiler.
14:25	Kelet	I thought it compiled its code into JVM bytecode which was then interpreted by whatever JVM you have
14:25	muhoo	that said, there may be a way to get lein to spit out what it's doing when you do lein compile
14:26	muhoo	it's essentially invoking javac with a massive -cp and other args
14:26	muhoo	yes, it compiles code to jvm bytecode. but clojure "the language" is just a jar file... it's a library
14:26	Raynes	muhoo: I think Selmer is probably a better bet than Clabango at this point.
14:26	muhoo	selmer, right
14:27	muhoo	people keep changing this stuff :-)
14:27	Raynes	Goddamn it people, stop making better things than existing things. God.
14:28	muhoo	Raynes: did you get lured into the clojure cup insanity?
14:28	Raynes	muhoo: No, despite callen's insistence. I just helped him find team members who weren't dead weight lazy people instead.
14:28	Raynes	:p
14:29	seangrov`	Ah, too bad, I could've been dead weight lazy people
14:34	`cbp	mm has anyone used protocol buffers recently with flatland-protobuf?
14:35	muhoo	i'm curious to see what kind of stuff falls out of that clojure cup thingus.
14:35	`cbp	I seem to remember it throwing exceptions when making a protobuf with an invalid field, also stuff like (protobuf-load (protobuf-dump (protobuf type {:a 1}))) returns {}
14:36	muhoo	i did some protobuf stuff earlier in the year, but i just used raw java interop
14:37	muhoo	worked fine for what i needed, IIRC
14:38	callen	seangrov`: I would've roped you in, but you were in foreign lands in search of fortune it seemed.
14:38	`cbp	(protobuf-schema type) always seems to have {} for :fields :(
14:38	seangrov`	Yes, I would have just been dead weight
14:38	callen	muhoo: Selmer is about ~1000x faster than Clabango. I'm not exaggerating.
14:39	`cbp	callen: :-D
14:48	`cbp	nevermind i think I'm dumb and forgetting how to use protobufs correctly like usual
14:56	dobry-den	A naive layman's alternative to Redis would be to have a Clojure datastructure that's syncd to a file for durability. is there an efficient way to do something like this?
14:56	rurumate	,(format "%s" "is there no there no (format a b) in clojurescript?")
14:56	clojurebot	"is there no there no (format a b) in clojurescript?"
14:57	`cbp	rurumate: I think you can use goog's format?
14:57	rurumate	oh, ok didn't find that one
14:58	ambrosebs	First stretch goal for Typed Clojure campaign: complete Bronsa's self-hosting Clojure compiler CinC http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/typed-clojure/x/4545030
14:59	bbloom	nice! congrats
15:00	ambrosebs	bbloom: cheers!
15:00	ambrosebs	I think we all want to see CinC!
15:01	ambrosebs	aaand passed 20k!
15:03	seangrov`	Yes, congrats ambrosebs, really very cool to see
15:03	callen	seangrov`: you and Raynes both could've contributed. Found some awesome people for the team :)
15:03	ambrosebs	thanks!
15:03	callen	ambrosebs: congrats :)
15:03	seangrov`	How long do you expect to hack for $20k though?
15:03	ambrosebs	about 6 months I think. Maybe a little longer
15:04	bbloom	really depends on what city you're in :-)
15:04	seangrov`	Well, sure, if it works for you, it's definitely awesome. All of us will benefit
15:05	seangrov`	ambrosebs: How is CinC related to typed clojure?
15:05	bbloom	seangrov`: he made a video to talk about that on the indiegogo page
15:05	seangrov`	Ah, didn't realize that was a different video
15:06	ambrosebs	I can't wait to rewrite the checking parts of typed clojure with CinC!
15:07	ambrosebs	it's a compiler that can actually be changed, hallelujah!
15:08	palango	Is there some sort of function to create hierarchic lists from some lists like here: https://www.refheap.com/19145
15:10	bbloom	palango: certainly not in core, but it's probably pretty easy to do with reduce
15:10	bbloom	palango: why not use maps though?
15:11	bbloom	,(reduce #(assoc-in %1 %2 {}) {} [[:a :b :c] [:a :b :d] [:a :c :b] [:a :d] [:b :a]])
15:11	clojurebot	{:b {:a {}}, :a {:d {}, :c {:b {}}, :b {:d {}, :c {}}}}
15:12	seangrov`	I didn't realize feature-expressions had been decided on for 1.6. Glad to see something happening around code sharing
15:13	bbloom	seangrov`: last i saw was this: http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Release.Next+Planning says "post 1.6"
15:13	palango	bbloom: that's indeed easier than I thought, thanks
15:14	seangrov`	bbloom: Ah, I just saw it on the pedestal tutorial https://github.com/pedestal/app-tutorial/wiki/Testing#sharing-code
15:14	bbloom	seangrov`: i wouldn't read too deeply in to that
15:16	seangrov`	bbloom: Yeah, I was surprised by it from having read the dev.clojure.org discussion recently
15:16	Bronsa	I want to thank ambrosebs for entrusting me with his campaign's first stretch goal, I'm obviously hoping we can make through the funding and get even more motivation to further develop CinC
15:17	seangrov`	Bronsa: is the $5k to "finish" CinC?
15:17	ambrosebs	seangrov`: it's $5k to keep developing.
15:18	seangrov`	Ok, makes sense
15:18	ambrosebs	seangrov`: Bronsa is the best person to do it, I want him doing CinC as much as he can :)
15:18	Bronsa	seangrov`: to keep developing it, meaning also I'll spend a good amount of time on making CinC as easy to understand as possible, meaning blog posts describing the internals, good documentation etc
15:20	rurumate	dnolen, bbloom: oh nvm, it seems like something else was the problem
15:20	rurumate	CLJS-587 resolved indeed
15:20	seangrov`	Bronsa: What's the chance/general-timeframe of this replacing the current Java compiler?
15:22	Bronsa	seangrov` honestly I don't see CinC replacing the current Java compiler any time soon -- as tools.reader is not going to replace LispReader.java
15:23	Bronsa	the value of the project lies in its analyzer, that can be used/extended by various tools (like core.typed)
15:23	seangrov`	Bronsa: Curious why - tools.reader was wonderful to work with when transitioning the cljs compiler
15:23	Bronsa	and in making it easier to experiment with various optimizations/transformations
15:23	jjido	What is CinC?
15:24	seangrov`	jjido: https://github.com/Bronsa/CinC
15:24	Bronsa	jjido: a still experimental (but mostly working!) clojure analyzer/compiler written in clojure
15:24	seangrov`	CinC?
15:24	seangrov`	clojurebot: CinC is https://github.com/Bronsa/CinC
15:24	clojurebot	'Sea, mhuise.
15:26	tacoman	is there any way to prevent the Emacs nrepl buffer from autokilling if my process dies?
15:26	jjido	self-hosting?
15:26	seangrov`	Bronsa: The other question I had was how you see it affecting the cljs compiler - the emit phas is obviously analogous to the jvm-bytecode emit phase in CinC. Are there any other benefits to cljs beyond the analyzer?
15:26	tacoman	jjido: as in, lein trampoline?
15:27	Bronsa	seangrov` actually emitting jvm bytecode requires quite some more machinery than emitting js
15:27	Bronsa	seangrov` the CinC analyzer uses children-keys to implement a number of passes over the "base" AST
15:27	jjido	tacoman: doesn't tell me anything
15:29	Bronsa	seangrov` virtually cljs could use CinC's analyzer with some custom passes and plug the already existing emit
15:30	seangrov`	Bronsa: That's more of what I was wondering
15:30	tacoman	jjido: sorry, I'd thought you were talking about my issue when you said "self-hosting", I'm guessing you meant the discussion here
15:31	Bronsa	seangrov` using CinC to emit cljs is something I want to try -- not a main objective though and not really going to happen soon
15:37	cpetzold	with core.async, is there a way to know of a channel has been closed other than trying to take?
15:37	cpetzold	know if a*
15:38	dobry-den	does @username notify someone in a Gist comment?
15:39	callen	dobry-den: just how github works in general
15:39	callen	arrdem: home stretch.
15:39	cpetzold	i basically have a nesting of looping channels, and i want them all to close and stop when the top level one is closed.
15:43	bbloom	cpetzold: no. any observation of the state of a mutable object in a concurrent world is prone to race conditions
15:43	bbloom	cpetzold: imagine you ask "are you closed?" get "nope", somebody else closes it, then you take a value
15:44	bbloom	cpetzold: a better solution to your problem is to create a control channel and multiplex on it with your other channels
15:44	arrdem	callen: congrats, best of luck. I've punched out due to real life Q_Q
15:45	cpetzold	bbloom: ah yeah makes sense
15:46	bbloom	cpetzold: are you the Charles Petzold of microsoft/windows programming book fame?
15:46	cpetzold	bbloom: no :P
15:47	cpetzold	Conner Petzold, no affiliation with Microsoft
15:48	cpetzold	no relation either, afaik
15:49	bbloom	OK then. I just had to ask because I wouldn't imagine anybody who has spent as much time putzing with the windows message pumps as that guy has ever asking a question about how to accidentally create a race conditions ;-)
15:49	cpetzold	lol, no probably not
15:50	bbloom	I'm certain that guy had written WaitForMultipleObjectsEx more than a few times in his life!
15:50	cpetzold	I'm also not cool enough to sport the tattoo: http://charlespetzold.com/PetzoldTattoo.jpg
15:51	cpetzold	if i were more of a hipster maybe i could do it ironically
15:53	cpetzold	wow, he published a book last year! that's over 20 years of writing books about windows programming
15:54	bbloom	most people lose money publishing tech books, but i think he's so entrenched in this msft culture that his books just sell by the truck load to bigcos
15:58	dnolen	finally http://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/commit/782e10ed2be766323d2bc7560dda636e30eaa647, http://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/commit/b567bc55b54583d31256499c30c1f1a4ee30d900
16:00	ambrosebs	dnolen: yay!
16:03	amalloy	fwiw dnolen, you can make that into one url, which is easier to read: https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/compare/7153b297...b567bc55b
16:03	dnolen	amalloy: too civilized
16:04	dnolen	heh, thanks, yeah I just always forget about that
16:04	bbloom	git help revisions # super freaking useful man page
16:05	bbloom	sadly, github's URL scheme doesn't support arbitrary refspecs
16:11	georgek	hi, is there a way I can reload clojure files with jetty using emacs nrepl while also connected to a browser nrepl in the same app? Right now I can run the app with jetty and modify clojure files and see the results on page refresh, but once I connect the browser repl, trying to compile and load clojure files (C-c C-k) causes an error in the cljs repl, and a page refresh shows the old page of course
16:12	georgek	as a result I have to quit back to the clojure repl to modify clojure files, then reconnect the browser repl...I'm using Austin as the browser repl
16:12	georgek	I tried running two nrepls in emacs, but I think Austin needs to launch in the same context in which I run-jetty
16:15	callen	bbloom: aren't tech books supposed to be boosters for consulting gigs?
16:15	bbloom	callen: for most people, yeah
16:16	bbloom	callen: but that guy is basically the dude who writes all the mass produced msft instruction manuals given out at conferences and such
16:16	bbloom	basically anything he writes is a best seller in the msft community simply b/c he is the default
16:18	callen	bbloom: I know who Petzold is, I used to work in the .NET salt mines.
16:19	callen	bbloom: I once helped move a guy who was apparently a big Cisco router nerd. Wrote a bunch of books
16:19	callen	dude had so much stuff in his house it took a team of 14 people three 12 hour days to move him.
16:19	bbloom	sheesh
16:20	callen	bbloom: yuppies man. You give 'em an inch, and they'll own every widget on the planet.
16:25	callen	does the :uberjar profile in a project.clj work for anybody else?
16:25	callen	I still get the annoying AOT warning and it doesn't seem to use the options.
16:25	callen	do I need to explicitly say with-profile uberjar?
16:32	ToBeReplaced	callen: it works for me, no extra work necessary
16:33	bbloom	huh. I didn't realize that reference objects had metadata & it's mutable
16:38	Bronsa	bbloom: yeah, also, suppose you have a tagged literal that returns an IRef -- ^meta syntax should overwrite the ref-meta at read-time
16:40	Bronsa	bbloom: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/LispReader.java#L733-L737 I'm not exactly sure why it resets the meta instead of updating it though
16:40	bbloom	Bronsa: heh, i literally just looked that up & was about to paste the precisely the same lines to you :-P
16:41	bbloom	crazy
16:42	bbloom	the Whitesmiths style braces still weird me out :-P
16:42	Bronsa	bbloom: that line left me wondering for quite some time while writing tools.reader.
16:42	Bronsa	in the end I chose to keep the behaviour, but I think it's wrong.
16:43	bbloom	Bronsa: so it seems that some var metadata is mutated during bootstrapping of core, but other than that, i haven't seen reset-meta! or alter-meta! ever used
16:46	Bronsa	bbloom: yeah, actually I've never seen metadata used on references other than vars -- and that is usually set automatically by def/intern
16:47	bbloom	Bronsa: i'm trying to make some more sense of the philosophy of metadata
16:47	bbloom	i keep going back and forth between "metadata is awesome" and "metadata is a nightmare"
16:47	bbloom	i can't come up with any sort of rule on when metadata is preserved
16:47	bbloom	& it's so easy to write code that would violate any rule you come up with
16:47	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: it's in this context
16:48	bbloom	& lazy bot is still bugged with respect to how i like to join multiple messages together :-P
16:48	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: lazy in this context
16:48	Bronsa	bbloom: my main complaint with metadata in clojure is its weird (and mostly undocumented) evaluation semantics
16:48	bbloom	Bronsa: you mean with respect to the reader? or like actual runtime evaluation semantics?
16:49	Bronsa	bbloom: regarding read-time metadata, depending on the context it may or may not get evaluated
16:49	Bronsa	or even get evaluated twice!
16:50	bbloom	Bronsa: evaluated twice?
16:50	Bronsa	try (def ^{:foo (println "foo")} foo)
16:50	bbloom	lol well that seems like a bug
16:50	bbloom	is that only with def ?
16:51	bbloom	isn't def like the only remaining interpreted op?
16:51	Bronsa	as far as I can remember
16:51	fu86	hi
16:51	fu86	I use a lib (image-resizer) to do some image manipulation
16:52	fu86	unfortunately the lib sets the filename itself and I cant change this
16:53	Bronsa	bbloom: ^{:foo (println "foo")} (do :foo) here it won't get evaluated for example
16:53	fu86	https://github.com/josephwilk/image-resizer/blob/master/src/image_resizer/fs.clj#L14
16:53	fu86	I want to replace this function
16:54	fu86	is there a clean way to do it in clojure?
16:55	bbloom	fu86: you can monkey-patch using ##(doc with-redefs)
16:55	lazybot	⇒ "Macro ([bindings & body]); binding => var-symbol temp-value-expr Temporarily redefines Vars while executing the body. The temp-value-exprs will be evaluated and each resulting value will replace in parallel the root value of its Var. After the body is executed, the ... https://www.refheap.com/19147
16:55	bbloom	all the usual monkey-patching caveats apply
16:56	fu86	nice, thanks!
16:57	piranha	is there a good way to check if one vector contains all elements of other vectors?
16:58	bbloom	,(require clojure.set)
16:58	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.set, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
16:58	bbloom	,(require 'clojure.set)
16:58	clojurebot	nil
16:58	bbloom	,(doc clojure.set/subset?)
16:58	clojurebot	"([set1 set2]); Is set1 a subset of set2?"
16:58	bbloom	piranha: use (into #{} ...)
16:59	bbloom	or rather just (set ...)
16:59	piranha	bbloom: oh, clojure.set is not available in clojurescript...
16:59	piranha	ah damn sorry
16:59	piranha	I don't need it there %)
16:59	piranha	It's all messed up in my head already, damned clojure cup
17:00	bbloom	piranha: https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/blob/master/src/cljs/clojure/set.cljs
17:00	bbloom	it's there
17:00	piranha	hmmmmm strange but ok
17:01	bbloom	Bronsa: so the thing w/ metadata i was thinking about was stuff like metadata on lists
17:02	bbloom	Bronsa: conj preserves metadata on lists, but not on seqs
17:03	Bronsa	well, conj on a seq is cons
17:03	Bronsa	I think.
17:03	bbloom	Bronsa: yeah, that's right
17:03	bbloom	and cons doesn't preserve meta
17:04	bbloom	assoc : conj on maps :: cons : conj on seqs
17:04	bbloom	those ops on maps preserve, but not on seqs
17:05	bbloom	but then again :: cons (member function) : conj on lists
17:05	Bronsa	bbloom: I feel like cons shouldn't preserve metadata
17:05	bbloom	ok, why? and what about conj on to lists?
17:07	Bronsa	bbloom: cons has no relationship with the original seq, when you use cons you know you're constructing a new cons with the seq as its tail
17:08	gfredericks	cons[truct]
17:08	Bronsa	bbloom: I agree however that conj should preserve metadata even on seqs
17:09	gfredericks	that gets you into this weird feeling situation where a whole "tree" of objects have the same metadata
17:10	Bronsa	bbloom: an easy fix for this should probably be changing this line https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/ASeq.java#L126
17:10	gfredericks	when you conj onto other things you don't inherently maintain a reference to the source object
17:10	Bronsa	to "return new Cons(meta, o, this)"
17:12	bbloom	gfredericks: yeah, that's an interesting problem: when you push on to a singly linked list, you preserve the interior meta pointer
17:12	bbloom	if you dissoc from a map, you preserve the metadata
17:12	bbloom	but if you pop from a list, you get the metadata of list
17:12	bbloom	er of the NEXT list i mean
17:13	bbloom	,(-> (list 1) (with-meta {:x 1}) (conj 2) (with-meta {:y 2}) next meta)
17:13	clojurebot	{:x 1}
17:13	gfredericks	yeah you certainly don't want this behavior e.g. when using [node child child ...] tree structures
17:14	gfredericks	which seem more comparable in a way
17:14	bbloom	compare:
17:14	gfredericks	(to lists)
17:14	bbloom	,(-> {:a 1} (with-meta {:x 1}) (conj [:b 2]) (with-meta {:y 2}) (dissoc :b) meta)
17:14	clojurebot	{:y 2}
17:14	Bronsa	,(meta (rest (with-meta (list 1 2) {:foo true})))
17:14	clojurebot	nil
17:14	gfredericks	,(-> [1 2] (with-meta {:x 1}) (seq) (meta))
17:14	clojurebot	nil
17:15	gfredericks	^ unrelated but interesting
17:15	bbloom	it almost seems like a lot of these issues would go away if you used encapsulator objects & only allowed metadata on those
17:16	bbloom	but then you'd have an object of overhead for every "root" in to a data structure
17:16	bbloom	would greatly simplify equality, printing, dispatch, etc too
17:16	bbloom	it's basically the "newtype" idea from haskell
17:17	bbloom	which does plenty of compiler cleverness to eliminate those capsule objects at compile time
17:18	bbloom	the seqs vs cons vs lists also makes me wonder about (= some-seq some-vec)
17:19	bbloom	still don't know how i feel about that :-P
17:20	Bronsa	bbloom: I would be ok with that if we also had a type-dependent comparator
17:20	Bronsa	but then we get into the CL hell of having n different equality comparators
17:22	bbloom	Bronsa: you can get around that problem by having a special type of encapsulator that provides for custom equality semantics
17:22	bbloom	(= (wrap x) (wrap y))
17:22	bbloom	something like that
17:23	bbloom	issue comes in when you have equality buried in a data structure
17:23	bbloom	b/c then you can only wrap an argument & you need to have proxy objects, delegation, etc. gets complicated fast
17:23	Bronsa	bbloom: isn't wrap just seq?
17:24	bbloom	that's one concrete example of a more abstract idea, i guess
17:25	bbloom	in theory, you could define equality predicates that only operate on a particular type where both arguments are of the same type. then you define some coercion operators. then you can compose a general equality predicate as the composition of coercion and the type-level equality predicate
17:27	bbloom	a -> a -> Bool vs a -> b -> Bool
17:28	Bronsa	yes, I see what you mean
17:28	bbloom	haskell kinda punts though, requiring the programmer specify a coersion explicitly, which means that general purpose heterogeneous data types are hard to do
17:28	bbloom	which basically makes 99% of my clojure programs inadmissible to a haskell type checker :-P
17:28	Bronsa	bbloom: in clojure that would get weird with all the various seq implementations
17:29	bbloom	clojure's equality semantics are such a big step up from every other dynamic language i've ever seen, it's hard to complain
17:29	bbloom	but i can't help but feel like we're so close to something even better :-)
18:19	juliangindi	I keep getting this error I cannot figure out and isolate. Clojure.lang.Character cannot be cast to Clojure.lang.Named
18:19	gfredericks	juliangindi: do you have a stack trace?
18:20	juliangindi	yeah one sec
18:20	Jarda	If I have a value like {:first "f", :second "s", :third "t"} is there an easy way of extracting just a part of it, like {:second "s", :third "t"}
18:20	gfredericks	Jarda: select-keys
18:21	Jarda	gfredericks: thanks! just what I was after
18:21	juliangindi	gfredericks: https://gist.github.com/Julian25/6756907
18:21	cddr	Can the "instance expresion" part of a dot form (e.g. the "ctx"
18:21	cddr	in (. ctx (arc ...))) be threaded by the threading macro?
18:21	gfredericks	cddr: yes
18:22	gfredericks	you can also (.arc ctx ...), which works just as well with threading but less parens
18:22	gfredericks	juliangindi: is weatherbeacon.views.main your code?
18:22	juliangindi	gfredericks: part of it, yes
18:22	gfredericks	this looks like a (ns ...) problem
18:23	gfredericks	did you put the docstring in the wrong place?
18:23	juliangindi	hmm. I don't think so. I'm looking into it
18:24	gfredericks	I got that error with (ns user (:require clojure.test) "foo"), for example
18:29	onefourseven	I'm getting this error with http-kit. Anybody know why? "exceed max line 4096"
18:30	SrPx	What is the linguistic/recommended way to represent data/object? For example, in JavaScript you use mostly hashes, but that is inherently slow if not optimized, obviously, because of dynamic hashing
18:32	mtp	i try not to care about performance, and i also try to look at the object system in the language
18:32	gfredericks	SrPx: we don't do object-oriented programming very much. data is still stored in hash-maps, but not "methods"
18:32	mtp	to answer both and neither of your questions
18:33	gfredericks	protocols/records are one anwser, but they aren't used in the common case
18:33	mtp	"stop conflating clojure and OOP"?
18:34	hyPiRion	start out with maps, then go to records if performance is an issue is probably good enough
18:35	gfredericks	then go to byte-array-backed-structs and lots of macros if performance is an issue
18:35	SrPx	Yes, I know, I mean actually just data. My worry (if you just hash maps for everything) is that it will not be as fast as, say, a struct in C (I do some heavy numerical table crunshing stuff)
18:36	SrPx	I love using hashes, though, so it boils down to, are them optimized to things like C-struct in the end?
18:36	gfredericks	clojure has somewhat of a continuum of features between hashmaps and the lowest level
18:36	hyPiRion	Records are, I think?
18:39	hyPiRion	Well, I would guess that for small hashmaps, the difference is roughly 0
18:39	mtp	SrPx‘ "the first thing i said"
18:40	gfredericks	hyPiRion: do you mean arraymaps?
18:40	mtp	just before "the object system in the language"
18:40	gfredericks	105 ns for singleton hashmap lookup
18:42	gfredericks	15 ns for keyword-lookup on a record
18:45	gfredericks	4 ns for dotted lookup on a record
18:45	gfredericks	hyPiRion: the difference is roughly 0 seconds :P
18:46	hyPiRion	yeah, I was right
18:47	gfredericks	I just had my computer do something three billion times just so I could figure out how long it takes o_O
18:48	technomancy	gfredericks: and that just in order to have an Internet Argument
18:48	clojurebot	Cool story bro.
18:48	technomancy	surely we are like gods
18:48	Brand0	lol
18:48	gfredericks	about once a day I do a (reduce + (range 10000000)) just to show who's boss
18:48	Bronsa	lol
18:49	gfredericks	123 ns for a large hash-map lookup (10000 entries)
18:49	gfredericks	so large hashmap and small hashmap are not much different
18:50	hyPiRion	yeah, O(log32 n) isn't that much
18:50	hyPiRion	As we all know, log n = 1 in Clojure
18:51	gfredericks	last one: small arraymap lookup
18:51	gfredericks	104 ns
19:02	zoldar	the thing that surprised me recently is that frequencies, which has complexity of O(n) processes the same sequence in roughly the same (or even a couple times longer) time as sort which should be O(nlogn). I suppose that native array sort being highly optimized is hard to match... https://gist.github.com/zoldar/6425609
19:04	AimHere	Maybe log n is very close to 1 :)
19:07	gfredericks	asymptotics. sometimes it has something to do with how fast your code runs.
19:07	hyPiRion	zoldar: caching plus JVM's adaptive optimization is funny to work with
19:08	hyPiRion	like, if you want to measure time
19:08	zoldar	hyPiRion: clojure doesn't benefit from these too ?
19:09	hyPiRion	zoldar: yeah, that's the exact issue. It's hard to measure or to get a good estimate on what would be faster
19:09	gfredericks	zoldar: given that frequencies is doing hashmap work you might argue that it should be O(nlogn) as well
19:09	hyPiRion	well, not hard to measure, just a bit more involved than a binary
19:10	squidz	Bronsa: Thanks for your work on clojure-in-clojure. Can you tell me if there are any direct benefits this has on clojurescript?
19:12	chord	you guys can't stop me from implementing a*
19:14	dpathakj	why would someone wish to stop you from implementing a*?
19:16	chord	you all think I will fail
19:16	Jarda	if I have several functions that all take a common argument. Somehint like (defn update-user-address [user-id ...] .. and (defn update-user-phone [user-id ...] (these are dummy examples)
19:16	Bronsa	squidz: mostly the CinC analyzer has shown that the children-keys approach works fine for implementing passes over the ast -- I'd like somewhen in the future to try and add the necessary passes in order to use it instead of the (currently) mostly monolithic clojurescript analyzer
19:17	Jarda	is there a way to have a 'wrapping function' so that I could call like (with-user-id 123 (update-user-address ..) (update-user-phone ..))
19:17	Jarda	to be able to call without repeating the user id
19:18	squidz	Bronsa: what benefits does that have? I\m not familiar with the analyzers of either clojure/clojurescript/clojure-in-clojure
19:18	gfredericks	Jarda: dynamic vars are the normal approach for that kind of thing; I think the sort of use case you're hinting at would be considered overuse by a lot of people, but it's up to you :)
19:19	gfredericks	the `with-user-id` part normally ends up being a macro too
19:20	Jarda	gfredericks: ok, reading up
19:20	hyPiRion	keep two versions of the function, one with the dynamic use, and one without
19:21	hyPiRion	at least if you're going to open source that thing
19:21	gfredericks	I remember going back and forth with cemerick on those kind of tactics wrt that couchdb lib I think
19:21	Bronsa	squidz: both the clojure/clojurescript analyzer do all the analysys/validation/annotation in a single pass (that's not entirely true for clojure) while cinc does a "basic" analysis constructing the ast nodes and then walks the ast doing all the validation/annotations required in separate passes
19:22	Jarda	gfredericks: yeah does clutch have some (in-database "foo" ...) stuff?
19:22	hyPiRion	yeah
19:22	Bronsa	this would allow for e.g. reusing some passes between clojure/clojurescript and possibly enable multiple compilation targets/optimizations
19:22	gfredericks	I haven't really used it actually
19:23	Jarda	yeah it seems to have dynamic-scope
19:23	Bronsa	squidz: the short answer is: right now no direct benefit, but it's setting the ground for possible future improvements either having a single analyzer/compiler with different passes attatched or improving/simplifying the current cljs analyzer
19:23	gfredericks	a coworker was writing an HDFS lib recently and asked me if the config should be an explicit arg or dynamic var; I waffled for a bit and then recommended explicit; felt good about that afterwards
19:24	gfredericks	it seemed to make the lib really straightforward to understand
19:24	squidz	Bronsa: cool, that sounds exciting. I know a lot of people have been dreaming of cinc for while now so thanks
19:24	gfredericks	but libs and app code are different things, of course
19:25	Jarda	https://github.com/clojure-clutch/clutch/blob/master/src/com/ashafa/clutch.clj#L26
19:26	Bronsa	squidz: the main reason for ambrose picking CinC for his campaign's first stretch goal is that having CinC's analyzer complete/easly pluggable/hackable would allow him to have better info regarding the source for core.typed
19:26	Jarda	oops, no, that can't be it
19:26	Bronsa	that's probably not clear, I'm going to explain it in a ML post tomorrow
19:27	gfredericks	oh he did go with the dual approach. I wonder if that was my idea.
19:27	squidz	ML post?
19:27	Bronsa	mailing list :)
19:27	squidz	oh okay. Look forward to hearing more. It's really exciting stuff
19:32	chord	i'm so glad that clojure cup is about to end
19:32	chord	so you guys can go back to helping me with my rts project
19:34	mgaare	will be interesting to see if this inspires a fresh round of creative ways to say no
19:40	chord	mgaare why is everyone like you so negative
19:49	paulsamways	Hi all. I'm attempting to build an uberjar, but I'm stuck with clj-time failing when AOT, the exception given at runtime is "java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clj_time.coerce.ICoerce". I'm new to Clojure/Java, any one able to give some pointers to finding a solution for this?
19:58	gfredericks	paulsamways: my only guess is to try `lein clean` first
20:04	chord	paulsamways: you didn't add the dependency to your porject?
20:17	paulsamways	chord: clj-time is in the dependencies vector in project.clj
20:21	indigo	paulsamways: Pastebin your project.clj
20:23	allenj12	hey guys ive been sruggling on this error can someone help me? https://www.refheap.com/19156
20:24	allenj12	i commented the error and commented problem spots
20:24	paulsamways	http://pastebin.com/MY8x9QDN
20:30	ambrosebs	allenj12: line 126 looks fishy
20:30	ambrosebs	allenj12: the (first board-queue)
20:31	ambrosebs	is that guaranteed to be non-nil?
20:31	allenj12	ambrosebs: it seems like it should be right? since its always expanding and we should find a goal before it runs out
20:33	ambrosebs	allenj12: prove it, abstract it out into a let binding and use assert to ensure non-nil :)
20:34	allenj12	ambrosebs: hmm not quite sure what u mean like [let board =...] assert board?
20:34	ambrosebs	allenj12: usually it'd expect (if (seq board-queue) ...) somewhere if your solution is getting smaller, just seems like an odd condition.
20:35	ambrosebs	something like this on line 126: (let [fboard (first board-queue) _ (assert fboard)] (recur .... fboard))
20:35	allenj12	hmm
20:36	allenj12	anbrosebs: kk ty also are u familiar with a* i seem to have an algorithmic problem aswell but not sure what it is
20:38	ambrosebs	allenj12: not comfortably
20:39	allenj12	ambrosebs: kk whats that underscore btw in ur example just a space?
20:39	ambrosebs	allenj12: it's just a convention for a throwaway binding name
20:39	ambrosebs	"don't ever use this binding"
20:39	ambrosebs	it's for side effects only
20:40	TEttinger	allenj12, in case your professor is up-tight about spelling, it's manhattan, not manhatten. don't want to get marked down for something silly.
20:41	allenj12	Tettinger: hey! and no im sure hes not lol btw can u look at my frontier expansion and check that and conditions? im not sure if thats valid
20:41	allenj12	ambrosebs: im confused why did u use quotes? lol dont ever use _ or use _
20:41	TEttinger	sure. I've never implemented A* but I've done something close
20:42	allenj12	ambrosebs: btw wouldnt it be better to use a while loop?
20:42	allenj12	ambrosebs: sry not loop just term lol while not asser...
20:42	allenj12	Tettinger: THNX!
20:45	callen	oh. my. god.
20:45	callen	Raynes: you were the smart one
20:47	TEttinger	allenj12: is list defined in your code somewhere?
20:47	akurilin	callen, ping. Got a sec or busy with the event atm?
20:48	TEttinger	I'm not sure what (list {}) dos
20:48	TEttinger	,(doc list)
20:48	clojurebot	"([& items]); Creates a new list containing the items."
20:48	allenj12	makes it a list
20:48	TEttinger	so it's a list of one map?
20:48	allenj12	its essentially making a list of has maps
20:48	TEttinger	ahhh
20:48	metellus	,(list {:a 1 :b 2})
20:48	clojurebot	({:a 1, :b 2})
20:48	allenj12	it starts off as one hash map
20:48	allenj12	then we see the nodes next to it and add to the list
20:49	allenj12	each hash map a board state
20:52	TEttinger	allenj12: ah. line 172, it prints nil.
20:52	TEttinger	that's one of your boards that it tries to findIndex in
20:53	TEttinger	(sorry, in the paste)
20:53	allenj12	Tettinger: hmm o wow i thought for some reason remove nil? would take care of that
20:54	TEttinger	hm, it's the println on line 101
20:54	TEttinger	you need to call remove on the movs
20:54	TEttinger	moves
20:55	allenj12	TEttinger: hmm can i just put that right next to it?
20:56	TEttinger	let me check
20:58	allenj12	TEttinger: just tried it no luck i must admit this is a little confusing since moves is only of length 4 and shouldnt be running those last 2 times
20:59	benkay	what wouyld a neat, idiomatic approach to getting the second and fourth elements of each vector in a vector of vectors?
20:59	benkay	would be*
21:01	allenj12	do you want [[1] [2] [3] [4]] ---> [2] [4]?
21:01	brehaut	,(map (juxt (partial nth 1) (partial nth 3)) [[1 2 3 4 5] [:a :b :c :d :e]])
21:01	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentVector cannot be cast to java.lang.Number>
21:01	brehaut	,(nth [1 2] 1)
21:01	clojurebot	2
21:02	brehaut	,(map (juxt #(% 1) #(% 3)) [[1 2 3 4 5] [:a :b :c :d :e]])
21:02	clojurebot	([2 4] [:b :d])
21:03	benkay	more like [[1 2 3 4] [5 6 7 8]] --> [[2 4] [6 8]]
21:03	brehaut	of course that will indexoutofbounds if you pass it a short vector
21:04	benkay	ah
21:04	benkay	juxt! how nifty.
21:04	brehaut	so you probably want get
21:04	brehaut	~juxt
21:04	clojurebot	if you think 'complement is great, wait till you see 'juxt
21:04	brehaut	~juxt
21:04	clojurebot	juxt is the bestest option though if it doesn't weird you out
21:05	redinger	Everybody should find a reason to use juxt every day
21:06	benkay	thanks brehaut!
21:06	brehaut	np
21:06	mullr_	In the clojurescript compiler, we have :foreign-libs to deal with non google-closure modules.
21:07	mullr_	But many times those modules depend on each other implicitly, and require a certain load order.
21:07	mullr_	Is there a way to express such dependencies with clojurescript :foreign-libs?
21:09	allenj12	TEttinger: tried adding a (if (not (nil? board)) imbetween fn and the other if but didnt work
21:10	brehaut	,(doc if-not)
21:10	clojurebot	"([test then] [test then else]); Evaluates test. If logical false, evaluates and returns then expr, otherwise else expr, if supplied, else nil."
21:11	brehaut	and if board is a seqable thing then (if (seq board) …
21:15	allenj12	TEttinger: any luck?
21:16	mullr_	The answer to the above, although undocumented, appears to be that you can add a :requires clause to your foreign library definition, which can refer to the "provides" from another.
21:22	allenj12	made some changes https://www.refheap.com/19156 but still having the same problem not sure why some of the board print nil when its being maped to just a set of length 4
21:24	jamii	ztellman: http://hugoagogo.clojurecup.com/
21:24	jamii	ztellman: It's pretty close to 10k games / second
21:28	allenj12	WEIRD. if i take away the last condition history-check it runs but just goes back and forth which dosnt make sense
21:32	allenj12	https://www.refheap.com/19158 more changes took away the third condition in the and statement in frontier function now prints but only back and fourth move
21:41	seangrov`	mullr_: Looking at load-foreign-library*, it doesn't look like it
21:42	mullr_	@seangrov` It looks to me like it passes through the :requires data
21:42	mullr_	at least, that appears to work
21:43	mullr_	but it may have simply happened to shift the order of things to a state that works
21:46	allenj12	Seems to solve!!!! but dosnt give optimal path can anyone see something wrong with algorithm?
21:46	allenj12	https://www.refheap.com/19156
22:07	john2x	how do I map a macro to a vector?
22:08	allenj12	so say i have a list of hash maps ( {:a 1 :b '(1 2 3)} {:a 2 :b '(1 2 3 4 5)}) and i wanted to sort the list of hash maps by first :a but then :b second if theres a tie for :a
22:09	seangrov`	john2x: macros can't be mapped
22:09	john2x	oh ok. I tried doseq but it didn't seem to work as well.
22:09	seangrov`	You can put it in an anonymous function, but it depends on what you're trying to do
22:20	robink	What's the enlive syntax to replace a node with its child nodes? i.e. given (enlive/at myhiccupnode [:img] enlive/nodechildren) turn <div><img src="bigannoyingimage.png"><a href="http://foocorp.com/thisisnecessary">Hey, guy, click here!</a></img></div> into <div><a href="http://foocorp.com/thisisnecessary">Hey, guy, click here!</a></div>
22:21	robink	Sorry s/hiccup/hickory/
22:21	robink	I have a hickory nested map that I'm operating on
22:21	robink	So (at myhickorynode [:img]) works, I'm just not sure how to say "turn those <img> tags into their children, without any contained text"
22:22	marcopolo2	What's the proper way to serialize (round trip) cljs datastructures?
22:24	seangrov`	marcopolo2: goog.json/parse, goog.json/generate ?
22:25	seangrov`	Also edn if your requirements allow for it
22:26	robink	n/m got it
22:26	callen	I am...much more relaxed now.
22:26	marcopolo2	seangrov`: Thanks! :)
22:26	callen	akurilin: around?
22:26	akurilin	callen, yessir.
22:27	callen	akurilin: Clojure cup ended. I'm too tired to type. Google Hangout?
22:27	callen	akurilin: I actually had another person asking about Bulwark, so I wanted to plan some tweaks/updates and discuss them with you based on your email.
22:28	akurilin	callen, sure, sec,
22:28	`cbp	callen: im back to doing the rethinkdb stuff would you give me contribute status or accept pull requests?
22:29	callen	`cbp: oh wow.
22:29	callen	`cbp: yeah let me add you.
22:30	callen	`cbp: cesarbp?
22:30	callen	(on gh)
22:30	`cbp	yeah
22:30	callen	`cbp: nice cactus. you're added. go for it.
22:34	`cbp	:)
22:43	allenj12	It woooooooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkksssssssssssssssssssss11111111
22:44	allenj12	give it your worst!!!!! https://www.refheap.com/19158
22:52	seangrov`	allenj12: What's example input?
22:52	allenj12	seangrov: what do you mean run any valid input :)
22:52	allenj12	seangrov: o
22:52	allenj12	seangrov: 345126780
22:53	allenj12	seangrov: no spaces no chars etc
23:03	bbloom	allenj12: shesh. maybe you should spend a little time trying to clean up the code to look more idiomatic
23:04	allenj12	bbloom: i am new so any tips would be great!! i do need to hand this in soon tho lol
23:04	bbloom	allenj12: generally, lisp code does not leave trailing )
23:04	bbloom	use 2 space indents
23:04	bbloom	aim for < 80 characters per line
23:05	bbloom	line up arguments if you indent them
23:05	bbloom	learn about -> and ->>
23:05	bbloom	you can learn about them with doc:
23:05	bbloom	(doc ->)
23:05	clojurebot	"([x] [x form] [x form & more]); Threads the expr through the forms. Inserts x as the second item in the first form, making a list of it if it is not a list already. If there are more forms, inserts the first form as the second item in second form, etc."
23:05	allenj12	bbloom: o wow cool
23:05	bbloom	use (condp = …) where case doesn't help
23:06	seangrov`	Interesting, .indexOf will work on clj, but won't work in cljs because (I think) cljs data structures don't implement it
23:06	bbloom	use not= instead of (not (=
23:06	bbloom	use extra let bindings to break up long lines / expressions
23:07	bbloom	allenj12: avoid mixing side effects like printing with your other functions
23:07	bbloom	allenj12: ie instead of print-solution finding AND printing the solution, create one function that finds the solution and another one that prints the solution data
23:07	allenj12	bbloom: ahhh ok
23:08	bbloom	use doseq instead of loop/recur for side effecting over sequences
23:08	bbloom	start with those & then i'll give you some more tips :-)
23:08	bbloom	that's a lot of stuff i threw at you :-P
23:10	bbloom	allenj12: otherwise, you're off to a good start
23:10	bbloom	i see some nice tricks in there like using sets as predicates ;-)
23:10	seangrov`	allenj12: http://cljsfiddle.net/fiddle/sgrove.eight-puzzle.core
23:10	seangrov`	And use cljsfiddle to share code if you'd like others to play with it a bit
23:11	allenj12	bbloom: thanks i always ask people alot of qustions when first starting so alot of the time i pick up some fancy stuff early
23:11	allenj12	seangrov: THNX!
23:11	bbloom	that's good!
23:11	SegFaultAX	Also, why introduce vars with earmuffs that aren't dynamic or mutable? They're just constants.
23:11	bbloom	allenj12: doing the puzzles at 4clojure.com is a great way to learn the stdlib and if you follow some top folks on the leaderboard you'll also learn some neat idioms
23:11	bbloom	sometimes you'll see golfing tricks, but other times there are really good ideas in there!
23:12	seangrov`	allenj12: Also, probably a good idea to use docstrings instead of the comments off to the right
23:12	allenj12	seangrov: yea i saw those but never did that b4 and i was in a little bit if a rush :P
23:12	SegFaultAX	Let allows multiple bindings (and it's recursive)
23:16	bbloom	allenj12: after you submit your assignment, clean it up & resubmit it if your teacher will take it
23:16	bbloom	or don't bother resubmitting it and enjoy the learning experience :-)
23:17	hiredman
23:19	allenj12	bbloom: i will definatly clean it up but idk if its worth re submitting.. he has this weird hatred towards lisps
23:19	allenj12	bbloom: lol
23:19	allenj12	bbloom: definately wont appreciate the clean up as much
23:20	seangrov`	allenj12: Well, formatting and naming like that can't help
23:21	bbloom	a CS professor who hates lisps is no CS professor
23:23	tomjack	is there no way to do case-like keyword dispatch in java?
23:23	tomjack	you have to do if (key.equals(Keyword.intern(...))) else if ... ?
23:24	allenj12	bbloom: i know its fucking weird hes kinda joke professor tho thats why im learning new languages class is to easy
23:24	tomjack	I guess == works
23:24	allenj12	bbloom: which is also weird cause his PhD was in machine learning
23:24	bbloom	allenj12: this channel is always happy to educate. submit your homework & then go rock & roll w/ making it pretty :-)
23:24	bbloom	eh, matrix math has taken over AI :-)
23:27	seangrov`	All about stats now...
23:33	allenj12	bbloom: im very good at linear algebra but suck at everyhing else lol like the probability theory
23:33	allenj12	bbloom: machine learning here is more theory than algorithms
23:39	seangrov`	"One counter is updated every two seconds and the other every five seconds... The io.pedestal.app.util.platform ... is used in the example above to create a timeout...you could have used JavaScript interop here and called js/setTimeout instead."
23:39	seangrov`	Surely that should be js/setInterval?
23:40	seangrov`	Ah, no, setTimeout is correct, some other part of pedestal is responsible for calling the functions on an interval.
23:46	ddellacosta	smarter way to do this? &(filter #(= (:session-id (val %)) 2) {{:foo "foo"} {:session-id 1} {:bar "bar"} {:session-id 2}})
23:46	ddellacosta	&(filter #(= (:session-id (val %)) 2) {{:foo "foo"} {:session-id 1} {:bar "bar"} {:session-id 2}})
23:46	lazybot	⇒ ([{:bar "bar"} {:session-id 2}])
23:47	ddellacosta	I find myself using filter a lot, and can't help but think I'm missing out on some more declarative ways to do things
23:47	TEttinger	filter seems pretty declarative?
23:48	TEttinger	ddellacosta, is that a map of map keys to map values?
23:48	ddellacosta	TEttinger: hmm, feels so much like I'm processing a data structure, rather than getting a value (or nil), which is what I'd rather do.
23:49	ddellacosta	TEttinger: yes.
23:49	TEttinger	I'm wondering if one of the *-in functions would work
23:49	ddellacosta	TEttinger: exactly, I was thinking of get-in when I asked the question.
23:50	TEttinger	or update-in
23:51	ddellacosta	TEttinger: ah, yeah, I guess actually I should use get-in if I can provide the first key
23:51	ddellacosta	&(= 2 (get-in {{:foo "foo"} {:session-id 1} {:bar "bar"} {:session-id 2}} [{:bar "bar"} :session-id]))
23:51	lazybot	⇒ true
23:52	TEttinger	that doesn't seem much clearer tbh
23:52	TEttinger	filter is generally clear enough to me
23:53	TEttinger	is there supposed to be more than one :session-id 2 ?
23:55	ddellacosta	TEttinger: yeah, I guess it depends on what is going on around it (in terms of clarity). There should not be more than one session-id 2, but there may be none.
23:56	TEttinger	then filter will return an empty seq or a seq of one item, right?
23:57	ddellacosta	TEttinger: re: filter vs. other techniques--in any case, just trying to think of all the possibilities. I just don't like it when I get stuck using one trope over and over…it makes me think I should be thinking a bit harder about the patterns I use.
23:57	TEttinger	I'm wondering if there's some search function in clojure that finds the first that satisfies a predicate
23:57	TEttinger	is that some?
23:57	ddellacosta	TEttinger: yes, to answer your question, although because it's a map I get a vector representing the map entry, which is kind of annoying but I guess amounts to the same thing
23:57	TEttinger	,(doc some)
23:57	clojurebot	"([pred coll]); Returns the first logical true value of (pred x) for any x in coll, else nil. One common idiom is to use a set as pred, for example this will return :fred if :fred is in the sequence, otherwise nil: (some #{:fred} coll)"
23:57	ddellacosta	ah yeah, some could be a good one to think about too
23:58	TEttinger	err
23:58	TEttinger	some returns true/false