#clojure – 2013-09-24

2013-09-24

00:01	yeoj___	tufflax: thanks.
00:01	tufflax	yeoj___: np
00:02	allenj12	hmmmm so my a-star function although messy is working except for a case where it seems to not be calling the else part of the if statement
00:03	allenj12	if anyonr is interested https://www.refheap.com/18938
00:05	dee5	Hello, mind if I ask what the idiomatic way of handling errors is?
00:06	clj_newb_2345	anyone have recommendations of whether to use phonegap or titanium or ... for using clojurescript to do mobile web dev ?
00:18	tufflax	allenj12: I don't believe you. :p
00:20	tufflax	allenj12: btw you can remove the (if ... true false) around the (= board goal) in at-end?
00:22	mgaare	dee5: what kind of errors
00:25	dee5	mgaare: I was thinking more of general error handling. One example would be a validation function. The nicest that I've seen so far is: http://adambard.com/blog/acceptable-error-handling-in-clojure/
00:27	allenj12	tufflax: ahhh kk
00:27	mgaare	dee5: incidentally for validation there's a pretty nice library for that https://github.com/michaelklishin/validateur
00:27	allenj12	tufflax: but why is it not filtering the list of it going backwords ahhh!!!
00:28	mgaare	dee5: but I don't know if there's really such a thing as 'general' error handling
00:31	tufflax	allenj12: I don't understand what you mean :P
00:32	dee5	mgaare: Thanks. Your initial question made me realize that my question wasn't well defined :). That's probably why searching for it didn't turn out too well. Other than that, are exceptions/throwables idiomatic? Or do people prefer error strings?
00:33	allenj12	tufflax: when i use the test case in the code it moves the 0 to the right then back left over and over again because its not filtering the way it should be in get-queue
00:33	mgaare	dee5: philosophically, I think exceptions are ok for exceptional cases, in particular when dealing with IO
00:33	allenj12	when its called in the first line of the second chunk of code in a-sar
00:33	mgaare	like if your database connection dies, I think that's an ok time for an exception
00:34	glosoli	hmm what the easiest way to turn all arguments into a vector ?
00:34	mgaare	glosoli: (fn [& args] (let [arg-v (vec args)])
00:35	dee5	mgaare: Awesome, thanks!
00:35	akurilin	Does anybody have a favorite folder layout for a rest-style ring app? Are any folks using yogthos' compojure-template?
00:36	glosoli	mgaare: thanks sir
00:41	tufflax	allenj12: Paste your code again. I don't think I'm seeing the lastest version. This could not possibly work
00:41	allenj12	tufflax: kk
00:42	allenj12	https://www.refheap.com/18939 i commented where i thought the problem was
00:43	s4muel	,(vec '((1 2 3)))
00:43	clojurebot	[(1 2 3)]
00:44	s4muel	,(apply vec '((1 2 3)))
00:44	clojurebot	[1 2 3]
00:44	s4muel	glosoli: ^
00:45	tufflax	allenj12: How can this code work? The opening parens at line 79 and 83 are surely wrong, no?
00:47	allenj12	tufflax: no there right the 1st one is just daying if were not at the end (first part was to print the end) and the second is if the optional parameter was not passed
00:47	allenj12	tufflax: sorry i do admit my coding style is atrocious and needs works
00:49	brehaut	~style
00:49	clojurebot	style is http://mumble.net/~campbell/scheme/style.txt
00:49	tufflax	allenj12: I don't believe you, seriously
00:49	allenj12	tufflax: lol u can try to run it
00:49	tufflax	yeah maybe I have to
00:50	allenj12	tufflax: im rly sry btw ur looking at that mess
00:50	brehaut	allenj12: ^ style above. do not delay
00:50	tufflax	brehaut: look at the opening parens at 79 and 83 and tell me I'm not crazy
00:50	allenj12	tufflax:there good! lol
00:50	allenj12	tufflax :P
00:50	brehaut	tufflax: i dont eve what
00:52	tufflax	"do not delay" actually loling
00:55	mgaare	allenj12: I did a little reformatting of that paste so it looks more like normally formatted clojure: https://www.refheap.com/75ac8176c680ddc2aee762947
00:56	brehaut	mgaare: good effort
00:57	allenj12	mgaare: ITS sO beautifuL!
00:59	scottj	allenj12: I think you can use case for most of your conds
01:00	mgaare	allenj12: a reasonably stock emacs with clojure mode and a few other things will make it easier to work with
01:00	allenj12	scottj: yea i realized that to but it works for now when i test in light table so i wanna get my logic straight
01:00	allenj12	mgaare: ive been using light table lol
01:00	allenj12	mgaare: i might try emacs again
01:01	s4muel	paredit will change your life
01:01	seancorfield	one way or another... :)
01:03	mgaare	I haven't really played with light table as an editor... kind of discouraged to do that now :D
01:04	`cbp	If I have functions foo and bar which have the same arguments [x & {:as opts}], is there a clearer way to apply foo from bar than (apply foo (apply concat [x] opts)) ?
01:04	allenj12	mgaare: if it helps i beleive it makes e learn alot faster
01:05	allenj12	WTF!! lol i enter the code i think is failing and its outputing it correctly how i want it to
01:07	tufflax	allenj12: the filtering is working?
01:07	allenj12	tufflax: it seems so
01:08	allenj12	might need to brb in for 10 min
01:08	scottj	allenj12: does LT show the arg list for functions as you're writing function calls? Does it have a built-in way of showing docstrings of those functions?
01:37	allenj12	back
01:37	allenj12	u guys still there?
01:41	`cbp	hi
01:46	tufflax	allenj12: yes
01:47	allenj12	tufflax: o cool hey did u run that code :P lol
01:47	tufflax	yes
01:48	allenj12	ahh kk what happened? lol
01:51	tufflax	allenj12: i saw some prints then got a stackoverflow :P
01:52	allenj12	tufflax: yea the problem is that it keeps making the move back and forth although thats what the one filter is suppose to prevent
01:52	tufflax	allenj12: but you fixed that, or?
01:53	allenj12	tufflax: lol when i run the copied code in light table it seems to work im very confused aswell
01:53	tufflax	Confused about what?
01:54	tufflax	I'm not confused :P
01:57	allenj12	its just me then... confused on how the code is not working but it works in light table when i give it examples
01:58	metellus	can you link the code again?
01:58	tufflax	not working when
01:59	OtherRaven	I've got a quick noob question... is there any way to import a java class's static fields/methods, like you can with clojure namespaces?
02:00	metellus	OtherRaven: there are examples here http://blog.8thlight.com/colin-jones/2010/12/05/clojure-libs-and-namespaces-require-use-import-and-ns.html
02:01	allenj12	https://www.refheap.com/18942 marked the problem area ish with comments
02:02	scottj	allenj12: println's are missing their parens
02:02	allenj12	where?
02:02	clojurebot	where is amalloy to explain it
02:03	allenj12	scottj: which line?
02:03	scottj	allenj12: ; fix this later
02:03	scottj	55-57
02:03	amalloy	(inc clojurebot)
02:03	lazybot	⇒ 32
02:03	allenj12	scottj: o yes
02:03	scottj	amalloy: that must be annoying
02:04	amalloy	eh. it's only happened once or twice, and it's funny
02:06	allenj12	I think i might be on to something is it possible that..
02:07	allenj12	since prev-move is a sequence im not filtering correctly
02:07	allenj12	and have ot pull the head out
02:07	scottj	allenj12: idk, but you can have multiple bindings in a let
02:08	scottj	allenj12: e.g. (let [a 1 b 2] ...)
02:08	scottj	right now you have (let [a 1] (let [b 2] ..))
02:08	allenj12	scottj: yea i remembered that from before ill fix that
02:08	allenj12	scottj: now ty :)
02:09	scottj	allenj12: I'd highly recommend an editor that will format that stuff correctly for you, it will make your life much better. I'm surprised LT doesn't do that
02:11	allenj12	scottj: yea agreed im so close after this tho i will
02:11	allenj12	i updated the lets and it dosnt like it for some reason
02:11	allenj12	i will paste
02:12	allenj12	https://www.refheap.com/18943
02:12	scottj	allenj12: only one set of []
02:13	allenj12	scottj: o thats weird ok
02:24	allenj12	hmm whats the correct way to get an element out of a sequence if its the only elemnt
02:26	metellus	first works
02:26	scottj	allenj12: (first x) or destructuring [x]
02:27	scottj	(opps, x is two different things in those examples)
02:29	allenj12	i think its working now!!!
02:29	allenj12	gotta give it some examples
02:45	allenj12	this might be really dumb but how do i turn (def board (map (fn [^Character c] (Character/digit c 10)) (read-line))) into a vector instead of a list i keep getting stackoverflow when i try
02:46	callen	allenj12: mapv
02:46	callen	allenj12: map is lazy
02:46	callen	allenj12: you should get a book.
02:47	callen	allenj12: I recommend http://clojurebook.com/ it will deal with a lot of these question marks for you much more efficiently than round-tripping questions like "how do I vector?" on IRC.
02:47	dobry-den	If you had a (db/get-forum forumid) fn and a /forums/:forumid endpoint, would you convert the forumid param into a Long in the Controller, Router, or in db/get-forum (i.e. let it handle strings)
02:47	s4muel	(inc callen)
02:47	lazybot	⇒ 10
02:47	s4muel	"how do i vector"
02:47	allenj12	callen: THNX! and sorry lol
02:47	callen	allenj12: I also recommend learning to google programming questions. If you plan to do this for a career, googling questions will be at least 1/3 of your job.
02:48	zRecursive	lazybot: (Math/sqrt 1000000)
02:48	callen	allenj12: 90% of the time (your question is one exception) when I answer a question on IRC, I copy and paste their question (exactly, no modifications) into google, check the first link, see that it's the right answer, then paste it right back at them.
02:48	allenj12	callen: yea sorry
02:48	callen	allenj12: usually I do this uncomplainingly, but I'm explaining this to you because I've answered thousands...literally thousands of questions on IRC over the years. Nothing changes.
02:49	callen	almost every question is a google away. Very very very very few are non-trivial.
02:49	allenj12	callen: kk ty ill do that
02:49	callen	and usually you know to whom you should be speaking if they are non-trivial questions.
02:49	callen	like the bantering that happens between dnolen and bbloom.
02:49	callen	allenj12: I'm not saying this to criticize you, I'm explaining the general pattern so that you can learn more efficiently.
02:50	callen	allenj12: also is allen your first or last name?
02:50	dobry-den	callen's going nsa on you bro
02:50	allenj12	callen: no im taking it that way at all btw im happy your willing to teach me how to "fish" as the phrase goes
02:51	allenj12	callen: ill bit on the nsa its last
02:51	allenj12	callen: bite
02:51	callen	allenj12: we share a last name :)
02:51	allenj12	callen: lol cool!
02:51	callen	allenj12: my family is from Ohio and WV
02:51	callen	(the Allen ones are anyway)
02:52	allenj12	callen: NJ here im in ny now in RPI
02:52	zRecursive	(+ 1 1)
02:52	clojurebot	2
02:53	callen	when did clojurebot start evaluating undecorated code?
02:53	zRecursive	(sqrt 1000000)
02:54	callen	that's just mean.
02:54	callen	and probably not going to work.
02:54	zRecursive	lazybot: why donot you eval (Math/sqrt 1000000) ?
02:56	callen	different bot.
02:56	zRecursive	callen: which bot will eval (Math/sqrt 1000000) ?
02:57	callen	find out by querying the bots, but do it in private chat, don't pollute the channel.
02:58	zRecursive	i know, i just test it
02:58	zRecursive	"/msg lazybot ..." doesnot work now
02:59	callen	I am sorry to hear that.
03:21	dobry-den	Spent the past 30 min debugging a problem only to realize I'd forgotten to save the file
03:26	amalloy	dobry-den: what barbaric editor/repl setup do you have where you're loading files by hand?
03:33	dobry-den	i'd emacs. i just forgot to C-x C-s
03:33	Pupnik_	zRecursive: maybe you are missing a trigger symbol for lazybot?
03:37	amalloy	dobry-den: but like...why not C-c C-k?
03:38	dobry-den	amalloy: oh, i was just debugging in the view
03:40	zRecursive	Pupnik_: what is the trigger symbol ?
03:40	zRecursive	,(+ 1 2)
03:40	clojurebot	3
03:40	zRecursive	it is "," ?
03:41	dobry-den	&(inc 1)
03:41	lazybot	⇒ 2
03:42	rurumate	Has anyone worked with cassaforte? I can't figure out how to use create-keypace; there's a "with" function or macro that isn't documented or found in the source: http://reference.clojurecassandra.info/clojurewerkz.cassaforte.cql.html#var-create-keyspace
03:50	s4muel	rurumate: http://mpenet.github.io/hayt/codox/qbits.hayt.html#var-with
03:53	rurumate	s4muel: thanks a lot, I was about to give up..
03:54	s4muel	rurumate: Heh, yeah that dependency is a little opaque
04:29	film42424	anyone currently around?
04:30	film42424	it's late, I guess
04:30	film42424	dang
04:31	ucb	film42424: what's up?
04:31	film42424	So im playing around with lein and repl
04:31	film42424	If I drop my code into the repl, I get the correct result back.. compiled.. I don't.
04:32	film42424	I'll make a gist really quick
04:32	ucb	ok
04:32	film42424	https://gist.github.com/film42/39738441956f579b0743
04:33	film42424	updated as well to show where the results differ
04:34	ucb	film42424: I'm no expert in all things compilation, but how are you calling your compiled code?
04:34	film42424	with lein
04:34	ucb	as in: lein run blah?
04:34	film42424	so I can put (+ 2 2) in -main and it works
04:34	film42424	yup
04:35	film42424	but for some reason, it's not stepping through the function
04:35	ucb	film42424: oh, you have a map in list-files
04:35	ucb	sorry, list-dir
04:36	ucb	which is lazy
04:36	ucb	so likely the repl is forcing evaluation by trying to print something
04:36	ucb	while your compiled code is not
04:36	film42424	hmm.. that makes sense. what should I use there instead?
04:37	ucb	film42424: try with doseq
04:37	film42424	doin in
04:40	film42424	ucb: You sir, are me freaking hero!!
04:40	ucb	:)
04:40	film42424	srs, thank you! I've been ripping my hair out for a solid hour on that one.
05:05	hhenkel	Hi all, I'm wondering if using nested "doseq" operations is considered evil for walking chosen parts of a tree?
05:09	amalloy	hhenkel: well, not really, although it seems more likely you want either tree-seq, for, or a multi-part doseq, rather than actually nested doseq
05:12	hhenkel	amalloy: okay I found the docs for tree-seq I will look at it. Would should I consider as a multi-part doseq? Do you got a link regarding that?
05:12	amalloy	(doseq [child parent, grandchild child, ...] ...)
05:13	hhenkel	amalloy: Ah, okay wasn't aware that this is possible.
05:14	amalloy	&(doc doseq)
05:14	lazybot	⇒ "Macro ([seq-exprs & body]); Repeatedly executes body (presumably for side-effects) with bindings and filtering as provided by \"for\". Does not retain the head of the sequence. Returns nil."
05:14	amalloy	&(doc for)
05:14	lazybot	⇒ "Macro ([seq-exprs body-expr]); List comprehension. Takes a vector of one or more binding-form/collection-expr pairs, each followed by zero or more modifiers, and yields a lazy sequence of evaluations of expr. Collections are iterated in a nested fashion, rightmost f... https://www.refheap.com/18946
05:14	amalloy	hhenkel: doseq refers to the documentation of "for", but i can see how it would be easy to not notice that
05:18	hhenkel	amalloy: yes, you're right I almost only looked at the provided examples and didn't reconize that. Earlier on I was able to solve the nested doseq stuff with multiple uses of map, but that might also be not that neat?
05:18	amalloy	probably not, but i haven't seen your code
05:25	hhenkel	amalloy: yes, thought you would write that... :) Maybe I'll clean up the mess and post a link later on.
06:19	ddellacosta	can someone tell me what I'm not getting here? This is a lazy sequence, of course:
06:19	ddellacosta	&(remove #(= 1 %) [2 3 4 1 5 7 1])
06:19	lazybot	⇒ (2 3 4 5 7)
06:19	ddellacosta	but this, I thought, would make it into a vector:
06:20	ddellacosta	&(doall (remove #(= 1 %) [2 3 4 1 5 7 1]))
06:20	lazybot	⇒ (2 3 4 5 7)
06:20	ddellacosta	(type (doall (remove #(= 1 %) [2 3 4 1 5 7 1])))
06:20	ddellacosta	d'oh
06:20	ddellacosta	&(type (doall (remove #(= 1 %) [2 3 4 1 5 7 1])))
06:20	lazybot	⇒ clojure.lang.LazySeq
06:20	ddellacosta	there we go. So, does doall not do what I thought it did?
06:20	ddellacosta	&(doc doall)
06:21	lazybot	⇒ "([coll] [n coll]); When lazy sequences are produced via functions that have side effects, any effects other than those needed to produce the first element in the seq do not occur until the seq is consumed. doall can be used to force any effects. Walks through the su... https://www.refheap.com/18948
06:21	ddellacosta	*vector -> collection
06:35	s4muel	&(doall (apply vector (remove #(= 1 %) [1 2 1 2])))
06:35	lazybot	⇒ [2 2]
06:35	seangrov`	&(doall (apply vector (remove #{1} [1 2 1 2])))
06:36	lazybot	⇒ [2 2]
06:36	hyPiRion	,(filterv #(not= 1 %) [1 2 1 2])
06:36	clojurebot	[2 2]
06:36	s4muel	TIL.
06:36	hyPiRion	`apply vector` is just `vec` though
06:36	hyPiRion	and doall on a vec makes no sense
06:39	hyPiRion	ddellacosta: `vec` makes its argument into a vector. All lazy sequences given as input will be realized.
06:39	hyPiRion	,(vec (range 10))
06:39	clojurebot	[0 1 2 3 4 ...]
06:39	s4muel	,(vec (remove #{1} [1 2 1 2]))
06:39	clojurebot	[2 2]
06:41	ddellacosta	hyPiRion: gotcha, thank you. Yes, I realized my misconception was thinking that doall returns a collection--if I understand it correctly, it should seem that it returns another sequence, but the values will be realized and stored in memory.
06:41	ddellacosta	should -> would
06:42	hyPiRion	ddellacosta: yeah. It will actually just return the original sequence, but it will force all values to be realized
06:42	ddellacosta	hyPiRion: ah, right, important distinction.
07:02	mercwithamouth	fds
07:02	mercwithamouth	oops.
07:02	mercwithamouth	is 'or' comparible to a ternary operator?
07:03	hyPiRion	`if` is the ternary operator :)
07:04	hyPiRion	x ? y : z -> (if x y z)
07:04	mercwithamouth	o_O ;
07:04	mercwithamouth	i se i see
07:04	mercwithamouth	,(or 1 2)
07:05	clojurebot	1
07:05	mercwithamouth	or just returns the first thing true?
07:05	mercwithamouth	or?? http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/or well no i'm wrong there
07:05	hyPiRion	yeah, or nil if none are true
07:06	mercwithamouth	ahh i see.
07:06	hyPiRion	,(or false false)
07:06	clojurebot	false
07:06	hyPiRion	well, some falsey value at least
07:06	mercwithamouth	i really should take my 'aspth' to bed... hrmm
07:06	mercwithamouth	ok..easy enough
07:46	alfborge	I want to do something like this: (ns ... (:require ... [clojure.string :refer [replace :as str-replace]]))
07:46	alfborge	I know it should be possible, but I fail to find how.
07:47	sm0ke	Hello i have an agent which is a map where values are sets..how do i send a function which adds a new element to the set for a certain key ?
07:47	pyr	alfborge: any reason not to do (:require [clojure.string :as s]) and then calling s/replace ?
07:48	alfborge	pyr: Just that I've used s as a variable name. I can change that if that's how this should be done of course.
07:48	ambrosebs	alfborge: something like (:refer [clojure.string :rename {replace str-replace}). But prefer pyr's approach.
07:48	pyr	alfborge: http://clojure.github.io/clojure/clojure.core-api.html#clojure.core/refer mentions rename
07:48	pyr	alfborge: but it is no problem if a namespace overlaps with a var
07:49	pyr	alfborge: (let [s "foo"] (s/replace "foo" "bar")) will still work
07:49	pyr	alfborge: (let [s "foo"] (s/replace s "foo" "bar")) will still work
07:50	sm0ke	is that possible?
07:52	alfborge	pyr: nice, thanks.
07:52	mpenet	yes, some ppl used to do that with jayq to do ($/html ($ :some-id) "whatever")
07:53	ambrosebs	sm0ke: you probably want update-in.
07:54	ambrosebs	sm0ke: (update-in {:a #{}} [:a] conj :bar)
07:54	ambrosebs	sm0ke: guessing this is how you do it with agents: (send a update-in [:a] conj :bar)
07:55	sm0ke	ambrosebs: does that works if the key is not present?
07:55	ambrosebs	sm0ke: no.
07:56	ambrosebs	sm0ke: (send a update-in [:a] #(conj (or % #{}) :bar))
07:56	ambrosebs	sm0ke: I think fnil cleans that up too.
07:56	ambrosebs	sm0ke: I forget how to use it.
07:57	pyr	ambrosebs: sm0ke: or (send a update-in [:a] (comp conj set) :bar)
07:57	sm0ke	guys what is :a what is :bar?
07:57	pyr	since (set nil) => #{}
07:57	ambrosebs	sm0ke: :a is the the key and :bar is the value you want to add to the set.
07:57	sm0ke	ok thanks let me check that
07:59	sm0ke	i got agent failed with pyr's code
07:59	ambrosebs	sm0ke: try this (send a update-in [:a] (fnil conj #{}) :a)
08:00	pyr	sm0ke: yup dimiss my proposal
08:01	sm0ke	eee
08:01	sm0ke	wrong arity error
08:01	sm0ke	am i defining agent right? (def a (agent {}))
08:02	ambrosebs	,(send (agent {}) update-in [:a] (fnil conj #{}) :a)
08:02	clojurebot	#<Agent@50646c: {}>
08:02	ambrosebs	sm0ke: I think so. Just guessing TBH. Anyone know how to use agents?
08:02	hyPiRion	results won't show here due to no threads allowed, but yeah, it should work
08:03	hyPiRion	works fine here
08:03	pyr	fnil is pretty sweet
08:04	sm0ke	Oh i got it...actually pyr code failed on agent..and i somewhere read you had to do clean-errors or someting?
08:04	sm0ke	i redefined and it passed
08:05	sm0ke	now i need to understand how you did that in one line
08:07	ambrosebs	sm0ke: this might help (send (agent {}) (fn [m] (update-in m [:a] (fn [val] ((fnil conj #{}) val :a))))
08:07	mercwithamouth	does anyone know of any good papers on anonymous functions...or well the philosophy behind them?
08:08	ambrosebs	sm0ke: it takes a bit of getting used to, but basically the first argument gets inserted implicitly for things like update-in and send.
08:08	AimHere	mercwithamouth, "The Lambda Papers"?
08:08	sm0ke	ambrosebs: thanks ...copied to repl :)
08:08	mercwithamouth	AimHere: thanks, taking a look
08:08	ambrosebs	sm0ke: we can take out the "m": (send (agent {}) update-in [:a] (fn [val] ((fnil conj #{}) val :a)))
08:09	ambrosebs	sm0ke: and take out the "val": (send (agent {}) update-in [:a] (fnil conj #{}) :a)
08:09	ambrosebs	sm0ke: hopefully I got the syntax right.
08:09	sm0ke	just one paren missing from end :D
08:10	ambrosebs	sm0ke: :)
08:11	sm0ke	ambrosebs: weird the first two forms didnt work
08:11	ambrosebs	sm0ke: give me a sec
08:13	ambrosebs	sm0ke: atoms are more responsive.
08:13	ambrosebs	,(swap! (atom {}) (fn [m] (update-in m [:a] (fn [val] ((fnil conj #{}) val :b)))))
08:13	clojurebot	{:a #{:b}}
08:14	ambrosebs	,(swap! (atom {}) update-in [:a] (fn [val] ((fnil conj #{}) val :a)))
08:14	clojurebot	{:a #{:a}}
08:14	ambrosebs	,(swap! (atom {}) update-in [:a] (fnil conj #{}) :a)
08:14	clojurebot	{:a #{:a}}
08:15	sm0ke	ambrosebs: thanks much for breaking that down..
08:15	ambrosebs	sm0ke: also, don't hesitate to use the longer forms if it's clearer.
08:16	sm0ke	yup..one liners are overrated
08:16	ambrosebs	sm0ke: great for IRC.
08:19	bordatoue	hi could anyone please tell me if it is possible to get a string output from pprint so that I could display it in html format
08:20	ambrosebs	bordatoue: you might want with-out-str
08:20	bordatoue	For example when using pprint/print-table, I would like the output to be displayed in html
08:21	ambrosebs	bordatoue: oh, not sure.
08:21	pyr	ambrosebs: unrelated, but is runtime validation something you're looking into for core.typed
08:21	bordatoue	ambrosebs: thanks, let me try with-out-str
08:21	ambrosebs	pyr: yes.
08:21	pyr	ambrosebs: i'm using clj-schema to validate structures right now
08:21	pyr	ambrosebs: and it would be nice having a single definition for compile-time / runtime
08:22	pyr	ambrosebs: ok, i just wanted to make sure you considered this as part of core.typed's job as well
08:22	ambrosebs	pyr: it should be core.typed's job to provide runtime predicates for static types.
08:23	pyr	ack
08:23	glosoli	hmm is there something in Ring to convert new line chars from string to br ? or I am confusing the purpose of Ring ?
08:23	ambrosebs	pyr: it's not obvious what's the best way to do it.
08:23	ambrosebs	pyr: right now, type checking is a separate phase.
08:24	ambrosebs	pyr: something probably needs to be done at compilation/macroexpansion for validation stuff.
08:27	pyr	ah
08:28	pyr	ambrosebs: as-in (defn-typed [tag symbol tag symbol] ...)
08:30	ambrosebs	pyr: I think I want to generate top-level predicates based on static types. Then you can use the predicates to do validation, and core.typed will follow it.
08:30	ambrosebs	pyr: also `assert-type` would be nice, which casts to a static type at runtime
08:31	ambrosebs	pyr: (predicate-for '{:a Number, :b Symbol})
08:31	ambrosebs	pyr: (predicate-for MyMap? '{:a Number, :b Symbol})
08:32	pyr	assert-type would definitely fit (and augment) what i'm using clj-schema for
08:33	ambrosebs	pyr: that would make core.typed a much more complete solution. Do want.
08:39	pyr	nice, indeed
08:39	alfborge	Why doesn't this work? (remove empty? [(java.net.URI. "http://example.com")])
08:40	mpenet	,(doc empty?)
08:40	clojurebot	"([coll]); Returns true if coll has no items - same as (not (seq coll)). Please use the idiom (seq x) rather than (not (empty? x))"
08:40	alfborge	facepalm
08:41	alfborge	thanks mpenet
08:41	mpenet	np just acting as a rubber duck
08:52	glosoli	hmm is there something in Enlive I am missing, that could handle \n characters as breaks in paragraph ?
08:52	cgrand	glosoli: you want to convert each \n to <br>?
08:52	glosoli	cgrand: yeah
08:54	cgrand	(interpose {:tag :br} (str/split text #"\n"))
08:54	sm0ke	,(swap! (atom {:k #{:v1 :v2}}) update-in [:k] disj :v1) ;i learned to do the opposite :D ambrosebs
08:54	clojurebot	{:k #{:v2}}
08:55	cgrand	and pass that to h/content
08:55	ambrosebs	sm0ke: :)
08:56	ambrosebs	sm0ke: you probably want (fnil disj #{}) again, otherwise you'll get nil's in your values.
08:56	sm0ke	ambrosebs: but its weird that ##(swap! (atom {:k #{:v1 :v2}}) update-in [:j] disj :v1)
08:56	lazybot	⇒ {:j nil, :k #{:v1 :v2}}
08:56	sm0ke	exactly thanks
08:58	glosoli	cgrand: thanks sir! :)
09:00	sm0ke	fnil is awesome
09:01	ambrosebs	sm0ke: I can't resist showing it's type. Just as cool https://gist.github.com/frenchy64/6254814
09:03	sm0ke	wow that is the most complex type i have ever seen
09:03	sm0ke	umm..but weird that the doc shows very simple definition
09:04	sm0ke	even the implementation is pretty sweet ...
09:04	sm0ke	lot of multivariate functions though
09:05	ambrosebs	,(doc fnil)
09:05	clojurebot	"([f x] [f x y] [f x y z]); Takes a function f, and returns a function that calls f, replacing a nil first argument to f with the supplied value x. Higher arity versions can replace arguments in the second and third positions (y, z). Note that the function f can take any number of arguments, not just the one(s) being nil-patched."
09:06	sm0ke	ambrosebs: if you look at the source it seems it checks only upto the third argument?
09:06	ambrosebs	sm0ke: the type is complex, but IMO couldn't be simpler to capture the semantics.
09:06	ambrosebs	sm0ke: yes that's right.
09:19	sm0ke	umm how do i cherry pick keys from a nested data.. e.g. how do i get :a keys into a seq ? ##(vals {:k1 {:a 1 :b 2} :k2 {:a 2 :b 3}})
09:19	lazybot	⇒ ({:a 1, :b 2} {:a 2, :b 3})
09:21	sm0ke	aha ##(map :a (vals {:k1 {:a 1 :b 2} :k2 {:a 2 :b 3}})) ; got it
09:21	lazybot	⇒ (1 2)
09:22	saml	lein search clojure downloads the whole internet
09:22	mdrogalis	sm0ke: Safer to use clojure.walk and pick the keys off.
09:22	mdrogalis	Then you don't need to know anything about the nesting ahead of time.
09:23	sm0ke	mdrogalis: any e.g.? is clojure.walk a external lib?
09:23	mdrogalis	,(use 'clojure.walk)
09:23	clojurebot	nil
09:23	mdrogalis	:)
09:24	sm0ke	ok thanks ill have a look
09:25	sm0ke	also i find myself using a lot of doseq? is that idiomatic way..or i am doing it wrong?
09:25	mdrogalis	sm0ke: Depends. Are you using it for side-effects?
09:25	hyPiRion	sounds very wrong, unless you're doing side-effecty things
09:26	sm0ke	mdrogalis: looking at the code i am doing agent sends .. sends on socket etc..?
09:27	mdrogalis	Side effecty indeed. It's probably fine.
09:27	xeqi	saml: lein search will download indexes from central and clojars, and the central indexes are 90+mbs
09:27	sm0ke	:) thanks
09:28	xeqi	saml: but after that it is faster
09:28	saml	ah i see
09:28	saml	i thought it was downloading the whole internet
09:28	hyPiRion	saml: oh, but you are
09:29	ambrosebs	sm0ke: if you know about the shape of your data ahead of time, I'd get-in over clojure.walk.
09:29	clgv	saml: maven always downloads the whole internet ;)
09:29	sm0ke	ambrosebs: did you mean "dont know"?
09:30	ambrosebs	sm0ke: if you do know, use get-in
09:30	hyPiRion	Maven is a DSL for downloading the Internet.
09:31	sm0ke	aye..but if i know my data will contains key :k ...map will work 100% crectly? why would i need walk?
09:31	hyPiRion	I'm a bit surprised that torrent traffic is higher than the Maven downloading traffic.
09:31	ambrosebs	sm0ke: your map example is correct.
09:31	mdrogalis	sm0ke: ambrosebs's advice is good. Consider my suggestion an add-on for stickier situations.
09:32	ambrosebs	sm0ke: if it's nested deeper consider get-in.
09:32	sm0ke	noted..thanks.
09:34	mercwithamouth	clojures 'if' is sort of funky....I see if true it returns the immediate next line and that line only...anything else would fall under what would be an else block in an imperative language. is that just clojures way of saying that if multiple things should happen you need to put it in a function and return that if true?
09:35	mdrogalis	mercwithamouth: Don't think about lines, think about forms.
09:35	mknoszlig	mercwithamouth: you could wrap it in (do ...)
09:35	mdrogalis	mercwithamouth: With if, you get (if (expr) (then) (else))
09:35	mdrogalis	One form for expr, then, and else. If you need more, like mknoszlig said, wrap it in a do.
09:36	clgv	hyPiRion: that's easy to explain - hollywood movies arent maven artifcats ;)
09:37	mercwithamouth	mknoszlig: ahh, ok!
09:37	TEttinger	mercwithamouth, there's also when, which executes multiple forms but has no else clause
09:37	hyPiRion	clgv: not yet at least
09:38	mercwithamouth	TEttinger: ok, i'll play with that next...
09:38	mknoszlig	mercwithamouth: usually, needing more than one form in such a place means side effects are happening - do makes it a bit more obvious
09:38	TEttinger	,(when (> 10 1) 1 2 3 4 (print "yay"))
09:38	clojurebot	yay
09:38	jweiss	is there any straightforward way to write "try to calculate expression x, if it works, bind it to this local and return y, otherwise return z" seems like there's no way to combine try/catch and let this way.
09:38	clgv	,(when (> 10 1) 1 2 3 4 (print "yay") 5)
09:38	clojurebot	yay5
09:39	TEttinger	jweiss, sounds like one of the when-let functions
09:39	mknoszlig	jweiss: if-let? won't work with exceptions though...
09:39	clgv	jweiss: you are looking for `if-let`
09:39	TEttinger	yeah that
09:39	mknoszlig	jweiss: you could wrap the calculation in try catch that returns nil in the catch
09:40	jweiss	clgv: you mean (if-let [x (try ... (catch Exception e nil))] z) ?
09:40	mknoszlig	jweiss: or roll your own try-let macro ;)
09:40	jweiss	yeah all those require that x can't return nil
09:40	jweiss	because nil becomes the exception flag
09:40	clgv	jweiss: yep. if you need it often build a macro like mknoszlig suggested
09:40	mknoszlig	jweiss: true
09:41	mknoszlig	jweiss: otoh, nil isn't really an extremely useful value?
09:41	jweiss	mknoszlig: of course it is
09:41	mknoszlig	jweiss: for further calculation? hmm...
09:42	jweiss	there's a big difference between "I didn't find the item in the list: nil" and some disk or network failure
09:42	bill610	Anyone have any ideas about this: I want to use clojure to build a web service with a RESTful API that exposes resources stored in a relational database (mysql in this case). I'd like to use a library that, given a specification of the db schema, would translate incoming requests to db queries, or korma constructs. Does that exist?
09:42	mercwithamouth	mknoszlig: hmm i'll keep that in mind
09:43	mknoszlig	jweiss: sure, there's a big difference. not necessarily in the context of the caller, though
09:43	mercwithamouth	,(when (> 4 5) (print "yay") (print "ok))
09:43	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading string>
09:43	jweiss	mknoszlig: in terms of the result of the if-let test expression i DO need to know the difference between the two
09:43	mercwithamouth	,(when (> 4 5) (print "yay"))
09:43	clojurebot	nil
09:43	mknoszlig	jweiss: if you need to distinguish here, you're probably better off writing your own macro there
09:44	mercwithamouth	g00d
09:44	mercwithamouth	,(when (< 4 5) (print "yay"))
09:44	clojurebot	yay
09:44	jweiss	mknoszlig: ok, was just hoping there was another way :)
09:44	mercwithamouth	,(when (> 23 5) (print "yay") (print "ok))
09:44	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading string>
09:44	hyPiRion	(defmacro try-let [[vname expr] success failure] (try (let [~vname ~expr] ~success) (catch Exception e# ~failure))) probably
09:45	jweiss	hyPiRion: thanks. this seems like a rather common construct, maybe it's just me :)
09:45	clgv	jweiss: build try-if-let with (try ~@body (catch Throwable t t)) and decide not on nil return but when the return value is a throwable
09:47	bill610	anyone?
09:47	clojurebot	Just a heads up, you're more likely to get some help if you ask the question you really want the answer to, instead of "does anyone ..."
09:47	gfredericks	clojurebot: he did ask
09:47	clojurebot	It's greek to me.
09:47	hyPiRion	clojurebot: go back to Greece
09:47	clojurebot	Excuse me?
09:48	mdrogalis	Hello bill610 :)
09:48	mknoszlig	bill610: not aware of a lib like that, sorry
09:48	bill610	mknoszlig: thanks
09:49	bill610	clojurebot: thanks for nothing
09:49	clojurebot	No entiendo
09:49	mknoszlig	bill610: sounds like something that'd be kinda fun to build, though ;)
09:49	bill610	mknoszlig: agreed, but my boss would prefer code reuse here :)
09:50	mknoszlig	bill610: yeah, bosses tend to want to leverage oss but not spend money on contributions ;)
09:50	mknoszlig	(some of them)
09:51	doomlord_	tempted to try clojure again, but 2 doubts: performance(is it an inherent problem of dynamic-language+more garbage from functional-programming) 2: not a big fan of the jvm. but i'm tempted, i recall enjoying it alot when i tried it.
09:51	dobry-den	doomlord_: where ya coming from?
09:51	mdrogalis	doomlord_: Performance isn't a problem here.
09:52	doomlord_	C++ is what i've used most (asm->c->C++); i've meandered through other languges, settled on Rust for a long while recently. (very different, and a C++ replacement)...
09:52	mknoszlig	doomlord_: no significant issues with performance, but ymmv depending on what you want to do...
09:52	doomlord_	... but now i'm thinking it would be nice to try and use something that complements c++
09:53	doomlord_	my goals are a bit vague.. but one goal is "a langauge that would make collaborative projects more enjoyable" - from experience in C++ , i despise any form of teamwork.
09:53	doomlord_	i kind of hope functional languages being more composable would lend themselves more to collaborative work.
09:54	doomlord_	I tried haskell, liked many things about it .. but the way you can just throw data together in clojure is very appealing. (haskell struggles with basic records it seems)
09:54	dobry-den	doomlord_: clojure has straight-forward methods for reducing allocation garbage like with http://clojure.org/transients
09:54	dobry-den	well, removing it
09:55	doomlord_	i tried CL - but much prefer the choices in clojure (lisp-1 etc)
09:57	doomlord_	rust is a great language for me but it's very fringe. i figured putting some time into something more established aswell might be nice.
09:58	dobry-den	sounds like you have the chutzpah to give a shot and see if you like it
10:00	doomlord_	hehe got this sort of 'catch22' thing. rust is great, it definitely eases some of the issues that make C++ bad for collaboration (eg not so class oriented, more biased toward referentially transparent code) - but its so fringe that the community of potential collaborators is tiny :)
10:01	TimMc	Is it even finished yet?
10:01	doomlord_	its not v1.0 yet , no
10:01	TimMc	(Another catch-22, of course.)
10:01	TimMc	Or rather, not a catch-22 so much as a bootstrapping problem.
10:01	doomlord_	in some ways its a great time to be in it - you have a some chance of steering it with contributions
10:01	tbaldridge	doomlord_: I don't forget, Clojure is a 1/2 dynamic language. Vast portions of it are static enough that the JVM JIT optimizes them away or treats them as static. So it's actually very very fast.
10:03	doomlord_	learning a language is one thing. but finding your way around all the libraries & tools is another - I'm begining to think i'll never master anything else to the same extent as C++
10:03	dobry-den	clojure has such a small surface area
10:04	doomlord_	one big + for clojure is the macros. from C/C++ i do find myself wanting them. (rust too has a macro system , better than C, not as good as lisps)
10:05	doomlord_	do many people come to clojure from java ? (already familiar with that environment..) i've never used java - and intend to keep it that way.
10:05	jweiss	hyPiRion: the problem with your macro is that the try wraps the success expression when i only want it to wrap the calculation of the local value. this is really the major headache, not so much the error handling as trying to write this without some "magic" return value
10:06	clgv	jweiss: just change the macro then ;)
10:06	jweiss	yeah that's what i'm doing right now
10:06	clgv	return the exception object ^^
10:07	clgv	it is very unlikely that this is a valid return value
10:07	jweiss	that's the magic value then right? you have to check whether it's a throwable or not
10:07	clgv	yes
10:07	hyPiRion	jweiss: oh, I see
10:07	jweiss	don't get me wrong, i know it can be done. i was just looking for something "pretty"
10:07	clgv	jweiss: you could also just create a macro-local (Object.) as amgic object
10:08	jweiss	clgv: ah interesting
10:09	hyPiRion	yeah, usually just wrap (let [local# (Object.)] ... (catch Exception e# local#)) and then compare for local#
10:26	devth	seems nrepl does not look for cljs files when requiring a ns. anyone aware of a way to tell it to? google is failing me here.
10:32	xeqi	devth: are you using piggieback?
10:32	devth	xeqi: nope
10:32	devth	checking it out. thanks
10:35	xeqi	devth: you might also look at https://github.com/cemerick/austin
10:35	xeqi	thats what I've been using lately
10:35	devth	ok cool
10:39	devth	awesome, can now require cljs namespaces from vim with piggieback
10:54	xeqi	anyone have any complaints about the current state of clojure tooling?
10:55	mdeboard	xeqi: I think it's a pretty common source of pain, but it has gotten quite a lot better in the past year or two
10:55	mdeboard	Really my only complaint is the error messages, but that's not Clojure's fault per se
10:55	xeqi	mdeboard: agreed, I'm working on gathering a list of things that could continue to improve
10:55	devth	what are some of those things that have gotten better?
10:56	mdeboard	devth: nrepl, for one. lein has improved (speed- and feature-wise) at a ridiculous pace
10:56	devth	nrepl + vim-fireplace was huge for me.
10:56	devth	yeah
10:56	mdeboard	what's vim-fireplace
10:56	devth	equiv of nrepl.el for vim
10:56	devth	https://github.com/tpope/vim-fireplace
10:56	mdeboard	ah I see
10:57	mdeboard	like nrepl-jack-in basically
10:57	mdeboard	?
10:57	devth	yeah i guess. haven't tried the emacs setup so don't know exactly what it compares to.
10:57	xeqi	mdeboard: more equivalent to nrepl.el then a specific command
10:57	mdeboard	It's basically "open up clojure file, press alt-x, type `nrepl-jack-in`, hit enter" and it conects to an nrepl instance
10:57	mdeboard	I see
10:58	devth	yeah. it connects, allows eval of exprs, requires namespaces, looks up docs, ...
10:59	devth	i still haven't figured out a good debugger. looked at ritz a bit
11:10	Bronsa	xeqi: no
11:22	silasdavis	Is it cheap to (into {} {:a 1 :b 2 ...})?
11:23	silasdavis	i.e. is it cheap to support sequences representing map treating all inputs the same way?
11:24	silasdavis	maps*
11:27	guns	silasdavis: into uses transients when it can, and I find it is the fastest way to convert between collection types
11:32	silasdavis	guns, yeah I'm just wondering if it is negligible enough to possibly use it redundantly (i.e. even when it's second argument is already a hash-map)?
11:33	guns	silasdavis: it will still run a reduce and so still O(n)
11:33	silasdavis	It's convenient for my function to treat ((:a 1) (:b 2) ...) the same as {:a 1 :b 2 ...}, but if doing so is a big performance hit I won't do it
11:33	guns	if n is small, no problem
11:33	silasdavis	hm I was hoping o(1)
11:35	hyPiRion	not sure if that's possible, actually
11:35	hyPiRion	,(into {} '((:a 1) (:b 2)))
11:35	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.Keyword cannot be cast to java.util.Map$Entry>
11:35	hyPiRion	[:a 1] etc is possible though
11:51	chrisrossi	dumb noob question, if that's ok. perhaps this is lack of imagination on my part, but currently the only way i can figure out to scan a lazy seq without retaining head is to use a loop construct. is there some sexier, more elegant function i just haven't found yet?
11:52	hyPiRion	chrisrossi: What do you mean by "scan a lazy seq"?
11:52	chrisrossi	well, let's say i want to get the nth element of lazy sequence without hanging on to n-1 head elements.
11:53	cmajor7	@chrisrossi: you want
11:53	tbaldridge	,(nth 40 (range))
11:53	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.LazySeq cannot be cast to java.lang.Number>
11:53	tbaldridge	bleh
11:53	tbaldridge	(nth (range) 40)
11:53	chrisrossi	maybe nthrest
11:53	tbaldridge	,(nth (range) 40)
11:53	clojurebot	40
11:54	chrisrossi	maybe (first (nthrest the-lazy-seq))
11:54	chrisrossi	maybe (first (nthrest n the-lazy-seq))
11:54	cmajor7	@chrisrossi: you will have to realize all the previous elements
11:54	tbaldridge	chrisrossi: why not just use nth?
11:54	cmajor7	@chrisrossi: is that is your question
11:54	cmajor7	@chrisrossi: *if
11:55	chrisrossi	i know i have to realize them, but i want to discard them after they are realized.
11:55	chrisrossi	i'm feeling good about nthrest...
11:56	cmajor7	@chrisrossi: so you want to split a seq?
11:56	hyPiRion	just... drop?
11:56	hyPiRion	,(drop 39 (range))
11:56	clojurebot	(39 40 41 42 43 ...)
11:56	jweiss	seems like he just wants to discard some elements and just keep the head to the rest
11:56	jweiss	sounds like drop :)
11:56	cmajor7	,(drop 10 (range 20))
11:56	clojurebot	(10 11 12 13 14 ...)
11:56	cmajor7	@chrisrossi: ?
11:57	jweiss	i presume that will realize the elements as it foes
11:57	jweiss	goes
11:57	chrisrossi	hmm, actually that looks promising too.
11:58	chrisrossi	assuming (0 .. 9) are able to be garbage collected.
11:59	cmajor7	@chrisrossi: is your sequence in trillions? :)
11:59	hyPiRion	they are able to be GCed, yes.
11:59	hyPiRion	,(drop 1e7 (range))
12:00	clojurebot	(10000000 10000001 10000002 10000003 10000004 ...)
12:00	chrisrossi	cool, thanks.
12:00	chrisrossi	sweeping cobwebs out of brain...
12:00	hyPiRion	In general, functions shouldn't retain heads unless it explicitly tells you it will
12:01	jweiss	on a related note, can you fast forward through a lazy seq without realizing the items
12:02	jweiss	i guess you'd have to split it
12:02	gfredericks	jweiss: still wouldn't work
12:02	chrisrossi	that would be impossible, i'd think.
12:02	jweiss	can't be done?
12:02	chrisrossi	s/would/wouldn't/
12:02	hyPiRion	that's impossible, unless you have wrapped the elements in a delay or something that can defer the computation
12:03	jweiss	so once you realize you don't care about the first x items, it's too late
12:03	jweiss	you have to have known that before you produce the seq?
12:04	scriptor	since it's a lazy sequence, you won't even know if it has x items in the first place unless you realize them
12:04	jweiss	good point
12:17	TimMc	jweiss: In the general case, lazy seqs require two things for realization: Computation of the basis for the next cell, and computation of the value of the next cell on that basis.
12:18	TimMc	For instance, in a parallel universe, we might be able to skip the negation in (map - (range 20)), but you couldn't skip the incrementing.
12:20	hyPiRion	TimMc: Didn't amalloy_ work on something to provide that? Perhaps that was for the reducers.
12:30	mercwithamouth	why would one associate an anonymous function to a name?
12:31	bbloom	mercwithamouth: for recursion
12:31	bbloom	,((fn rec [x] (if (zero? x) :done (do (prn x) (rec (dec x))) 5)
12:31	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
12:31	bbloom	,((fn rec [x] (if (zero? x) :done (do (prn x) (rec (dec x))) 5))
12:31	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
12:31	jweiss	local variables too
12:32	bbloom	i can't code in an irc window :-/
12:32	bbloom	,((fn rec [x] (if (zero? x) :done (do (pr x) (rec (dec x))))) 5)
12:32	clojurebot	54321:done
12:32	bbloom	finally.
12:32	mercwithamouth	hmmm
12:33	mercwithamouth	does joy of clojure go into stuff like that?
12:34	jweiss	,(let [f (fn [x] (- x 5))] (vector (f 5) (f 6)))
12:34	clojurebot	[0 1]
12:34	mercwithamouth	like the reasoning behind a lot of functional practice?
12:35	jweiss	but that is a different way of assigning a name than bbloom's example
12:36	dobry-den	mercwithamouth: iirc it helps get the idea across more deliberately than most
12:37	dobry-den	i've never even seen (fn name [...] ...) syntax in the wild.
12:38	hyPiRion	I do it when I need non-recur recursion
12:38	xeqi	I've had to do it very rarely
12:38	mercwithamouth	dobry-den: sweet....funny enough secrets of the javascript ninja gives some very decent insight on functional programming
12:40	dobry-den	mercwithamouth: i think the best way in is to just write clojure. compared to scala or ruby or javascript, i find that clojure makes it easiest to just arrive at the functional implementation.
12:41	mercwithamouth	i agree...after a few days of playing with clojure it's definitely replacing scala for me (a language i toyed with off/on for 2 years). it may very well replace ruby as well
12:42	AimHere	I use (fn name [wibble] ... ) syntax is almost necessary for 4clojure!
12:43	hyPiRion	huh, I don't think I've ever used that for 4clojure
12:43	dobry-den	mercwithamouth: cool, i come from ruby. i found things like Ring (https://github.com/ring-clojure/ring/wiki/Concepts) much simpler than Rack.
12:44	ambrosebs	dobry-den: fn names also show up in stack traces
12:44	dobry-den	ambrosebs: oh man. i'm sold
12:44	dobry-den	say no more
12:44	mercwithamouth	dobry-den: that's good to hear...i'm going to start playing with compojure soon
12:46	chris_	are there many jobs in Clojure? I see a lot of people on Hacker News comments saying they work in Clojure, but have never seen a Clojure job advertised
12:46	chris_	I'm guessing outside of startups there aren't many opportunities?
12:46	dobry-den	mercwithamouth: it's great. i started working on a forum yesterday to learn Datomic: http://198.58.119.43:3000/. maybe it can help if it doesn't scare you away.
12:46	mtp	find a java job and start writing clojure
12:47	justin_smith	there were many clojure folks at the last pjug meeting (portland or java users group)
12:47	justin_smith	clojure folks as in employed doing clojure
12:47	justin_smith	including me
12:47	chris_	justin_smith: that's good to hear
12:47	justin_smith	that is how we did it - got approved to use java, snuck some clojure in, and the higher ups liked the productivity boost
12:48	justin_smith	the way our tech lead tells it "we snuck clojure in the back end"
12:48	justin_smith	we don't have a strong sexual harrassment policy here
12:48	mercwithamouth	dobry-den: hah, cool! taking a look
12:48	chris_	ha
12:48	ToxicFrog	I wish we had lax enough controls over prod to do that here~
12:48	mercwithamouth	so datomic is a db or an orm?
12:49	chris_	I can't see that flying at my current place of work, not enough autonomy unfortunately
12:49	tbaldridge	mercwithamouth: DB, ORMs are of the devil :-P
12:49	chris_	but perhaps in future I'll be able to do that :-)
12:49	mercwithamouth	tbaldridge: lol
12:49	justin_smith	try a weekend project (on your own time) that fills a company need, see if they let you bring it in
12:49	mercwithamouth	tbaldridge: orms can be nice..but admittingly with clojure..it seems to be f'ing perfect when it comes to modeling and dealing with your data as is
12:50	xeqi	tbaldridge: but my objects are maps
12:50	chris_	sure, i'll have to try that
12:50	dobry-den	datomic's datalog has me hooked
12:52	dobry-den	all the implicit joins makes it sorta easy-mode compared to sql
12:52	hyPiRion	I feel ORMs are too complex. It's essentially just a map with key/values
12:53	hyPiRion	adding the possibility to modify the data makes me confused.
12:53	tbaldridge	dobry-den: I love the fact that datalog is optional. Don't like it? You have raw access to the indexes. That is a major win.
12:53	bbloom	<3 datalog
12:53	mercwithamouth	dobry-den: heh it's my intention to go mongo....this is interesting though
12:53	bbloom	<3 raw indexes too
12:53	bbloom	</3 mongo
12:53	tbaldridge	hyPiRion: right, they work well when both your DB and your language are statically typed. They are pretty much useless when one or the other is dynamic
12:53	bbloom	that's the unary "do not love" operator
12:54	mercwithamouth	looking into it now...
12:54	llasram	bbloom: What does (comp <3 </3) do ?
12:54	tbaldridge	mercwithamouth: after using a Datomic, I'd never go back to a DB like mongo. Datomic has all the good parts of SQL DBs without all the bad parts.
12:55	bbloom	llasram: depends on whether or not <3 is defined for booleans :-)
12:55	tbaldridge	llasram: create a confused girlfriend?
12:55	dobry-den	mercwithamouth: some essential datomic resources: https://github.com/Datomic/day-of-datomic, http://www.learndatalogtoday.org/
12:55	havenwood	tbaldridge: Is Datomic a sane choice for smaller-sized projects?
12:56	havenwood	I've never used it but very curious.
12:56	tbaldridge	havenwood: I think so, I've used it purely as an in-memory system. If you use it like Clojure you can really look at it as an easy way of adding durability to Clojure collections.
12:56	bbloom	havenwood: depends on what "smaller-sized" means
12:56	dobry-den	havenwood: yeh that's what the free transactor is for
12:57	mercwithamouth	dobry-den: thanks...sigh just what i need. something new to start over with
12:57	tbaldridge	*use it with Clojure
12:57	dobry-den	mercwithamouth: also this dude's screencast is nice: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/datomic/fizUX3dWBPU - shows you some basics. def check out the learn datalog site though. datalog is much cooler than sql
13:01	mercwithamouth	dobry-den: ok, saving
13:02	mdeboard	worst part about clojurescript is that now I'm trying to implement channels in coffeescript
13:02	mdeboard	what have I become
13:02	tbaldridge	mdeboard: does coffescript suport async/await or anything of that sort?
13:03	bbloom	tbaldridge: not main coffeescript, but one or two of the less popular forks do
13:03	mercwithamouth	ahh ok so datomic IS a layer over a number of different databases
13:03	mercwithamouth	interesting...
13:03	shoerain	technomancy, justin_smith, rasmusto: the reason tab-completion didn't work yesterday was because i was running lein 1.x, not lein 2.x . tab-completion is more narrow now, I guess. Working with .inputrc too. Thought I'd mention it.
13:03	tbaldridge	mdeboard: actually, icedcoffeescript supports async await, if you use one of those, porting core.async is rather trivial
13:03	technomancy	shoerain: aha; nice
13:03	justin_smith	shoerain: awesome, glad you worked it out
13:04	mdeboard	tbaldridge: :o
13:04	rasmusto	shoerain: I figured it might be something like that, since you mentioned a specific version of linux (which is why I asked about apt) :)
13:04	dobry-den	mercwithamouth: or i guess in other words datomic has adapters for various dbs.
13:05	allenj12	whats the best way to bind something in a for loop something like this? (for [pair move] (let [next-move (key pair)] i googled around and couldnt find anything specific for what i want
13:06	bbloom	tbaldridge: icedcoffeescript etc don't make a lot of sense to me. Part of the point of coffeescript is that it's got the same semantics at javascript. if you're going to go all out & change the language semantics & do a much larger transform during compilation, you might as well use cljs :-)
13:06	dnolen	mdeboard: also there's a CoffeeScript pull request to support ES6 yield http://github.com/jashkenas/coffee-script/pull/3078
13:06	dobry-den	like (for [pair move :let [next-move (key pair)] ...)?
13:07	tbaldridge	bbloom: true, I'm just saying, implementing core.async in any language with async/await is pretty simple.
13:07	mdeboard	dnolen: Damn, that's great.
13:07	tbaldridge	I'd be tempted to port it to F#/C# if I actually worked with those languages anymore
13:07	bbloom	tbaldridge: yup, especially without threads
13:07	allenj12	hmmm :let i gotta look what that is hold on
13:07	mdeboard	tbaldridge: But async/await semantics are so nice, I'm not sure what you'd actually gain
13:07	mdeboard	so nice in those languages*
13:08	rasmusto	allenj12: it's just sugar for the code that you had to drop a set of parens
13:08	bbloom	you wouldn't need to add much to C#/F# at all other than maybe a channel type w/ async methods on it
13:08	allenj12	rasmusto: ahh kk
13:09	bbloom	and like a Channel.Alts static method
13:09	tbaldridge	bbloom: yep, that's the beauty, if your system supports listenable promises, we can layer core.async on it.
13:11	mdeboard	dnolen: Co-worker just brought up a good point. Support for yield would violate one of coffeescript's main tenets of being backward compatible
13:11	allenj12	woah i think that for loop broke my light table lol
13:11	allenj12	its not matching parens anymore
13:11	allenj12	lol
13:12	dnolen	mdeboard: Ashkenas already chimed in about that pull, seems like he's down.
13:12	dnolen	mdeboard: another approach is using Traceur which supports ES6 generator syntax, works well from what I've played around with
13:13	rasmusto	allenj12: kill and restart the repl connection, you might want to do a (take 10 (for ...)) to keep it from going infinitely
13:14	allenj12	rasmusto: kk restarting
13:16	allenj12	rasmusto: hmm looks like its my fault here still yelling :X
13:16	dobry-den	If you had a (db/get-forum forumid) fn and a /forums/:forumid endpoint, would you convert the forumid param into a Long in the Controller, Router, or in db/get-forum (i.e. let it handle strings)
13:20	mdeboard	dnolen: Ultimately it's moot, we're committed to supporting IE9. But that's exciting. I didn't give two shits about front-end stuff before Saturday. Spent the day with CLJS, kind of opened my eyes.
13:22	mdeboard	Really want to use core.async with Clojure where you get actual multithreading out of it. CLJS core.async is nice for "cognitive easing" with highly async code, but you're still constrained to the limitations of your platform.
13:26	allenj12	https://www.refheap.com/18954
13:27	allenj12	is that right?
13:27	dobry-den	allenj12: i dont see why not
13:28	allenj12	dobry-den: hmm kk it say wrong number of args for line 3 in that paste
13:28	dnolen	mdeboard: what limitations are you talking about beyond single threaded? (Also Traceur lets you use ES6 features by compiling to common denominator JS)
13:31	mdeboard	dnolen: That's pretty much it. Well, that and limited access to underlying OS via the browser APIs (if any)
13:31	mdeboard	But I meant multi-threading.
13:32	dnolen	mdeboard: right, I don't really see the single threaded bit being particularly troublesome when doing serious front end work though.
13:34	dobry-den	allenj12: oh yeah, key is actually a clojure function. i thought it was pseudocode when you first posted it.
13:35	rasmusto	,(filter #{false} [1 2 false 3])
13:35	clojurebot	()
13:35	allenj12	dobry-den: o lol does that make it different?
13:35	rasmusto	I probably shouldn't use a set here...
13:35	dobry-den	allenj12: i dont really know what you're trying to do or what you're asking. for instance, if pair is a tuple you can just do (first pair).
13:36	allenj12	dobry-den: i only want the key. im doing a-star and the key contains the action i wanna execute
13:37	allenj12	dobry-den: it seems though u would day the syntax is the same no?
13:37	allenj12	dobry-den: for the for loop?
13:39	dobry-den	allenj12: yeah, but didnt you say your prob was on L3
13:39	allenj12	dobry-den: i thought it was but i looked more carefully and its complaining about the for loop saying it has 5 arguments sry i forgot to mention that
13:40	dobry-den	allenj12: ohh yeah it's because of the println line
13:40	dobry-den	for loops can only have one expression in them unlike, say, the body of a `let`. so use `do`
13:40	dobry-den	(do (println ...) (a-star ...))
13:41	allenj12	dobry-den: o weird kk
13:42	mdrogalis	Do you think it's fair to say that RESTful interfaces suffer from the same problems that SQL does?
13:42	mdrogalis	e.g. string building to communicate.
13:43	justin_smith	mdrogalis: well they aren't quite as human-operator oriented, IE a request map can be trivially translated to/from an array of arrays of length 2
13:43	justin_smith	sql has more syntax
13:44	mdrogalis	justin_smith: While that's true, REST requires you to know the ordering of the URL structure. /person/:name/:id, for example
13:44	mdrogalis	It kind of forces positional URL building on you.
13:44	justin_smith	sure, but that is different from constructing a statement in a language syntax
13:45	justin_smith	in terms of error modes for example
13:45	mdrogalis	justin_smith: Go on.
13:45	justin_smith	I mean you can't call a clojure function without your args in the right order
13:45	justin_smith	that is different from having magic args that transform the function being called (including how other args are interpreted)
13:46	justin_smith	that does happen with special forms of course, but not with most functions
13:46	justin_smith	in sql the meaning of your tokens depends on the analysis of the whole statement
13:47	dobry-den	I'm so used to rest that I can't even think of what an alternative would look like.
13:47	justin_smith	with rest, you need to get the path right, but it is not as open ended as a language
13:47	mdrogalis	Some of those points hold true, but one not wholey so. Function args can be posiitonal, but you weren't munging strings to build it u
13:47	mdrogalis	up*
13:47	justin_smith	strings are just an implementation detail
13:47	mdrogalis	I suppose so. Something profoundly bothers me about it the more I consider it.
13:48	justin_smith	the problem with sql is not the strings, it is the fact that it is a language where a small alteration in the form changes how the elements get interpreted
13:49	mdrogalis	justin_smith: Datomic disagrees with your first point.
13:50	mdrogalis	Gotta brb
13:51	mlb-	Is there a XML library for clojure which doesn't strip comments when parsing a XML document?
13:52	mdrogalis	mlb-: Unlikely, not where where the comments would go.
13:53	mdrogalis	not sure*
13:53	justin_smith	λ_λ
13:55	mlb-	mdrogalis: dependent upon the internal representation each library chooses to expose in clojure, naturally
13:56	mdrogalis	mlb-: I pictured it parsing into something like {x [x x x] etc}, but maybe you'll find something else.
13:57	mlb-	I'm not particularly stuck on how a library might choose to represent it. I'm more stuck on finding a library which can
14:01	justin_smith	mlb-: how much xml support do you need?
14:01	justin_smith	enlive will give you a data structure with the comment in it, but does not do xml namespaces etc.
14:02	mlb-	justin_smith: Trying to sell clojure at my $DAYJOB, so parsing with xmlns prefixes and comments would be ideal
14:02	justin_smith	or so the docs claim, haven't tried to do any advanced xml stuff with it, I just use it for page scraping when clients are too lazy to give us data
14:02	justin_smith	ahh
14:02	justin_smith	hmm
14:03	mlb-	I figure worse case, I'll find some enterprise-tastic Java library which does that kitchen sink bit and I'll just write a clojure wrapper for it
14:03	justin_smith	that stuff is a bit outside my experience, so I don't even know how hard it would be to add that onto enlive. But enlive will take an xml and give you a nested data structure, I can paste code showing that
14:03	mlb-	Just hopeful that someone else may have already done the legwork ;]
14:04	justin_smith	mlb-: http://sprunge.us/agSO?clojure example in a repl of using enlive to get a data structure out of some xml
14:06	mlb-	justin_smith: that looks lovely, I'll have to check it out!
14:07	justin_smith	enlive is mostly about the stream parsers that transform that representation (and then recostruct markup out of it again), but lazily I find I can take the initial broken down version, do a few standard manipulations, and reconstruct (with enlive/emit*)
14:21	munderwo	Hi all. I'm playing around with testing in clojure (actually all of clojure really, just learning) and also the clojure koans. When I run the koans using lein it keeps the jam up and watches the code for changes, and automatically re-runs the tests. How do I get my own code to do that?
14:22	Morgawr	hello... I'm trying to run some simple clojure function from java (eclipse project). I cannot, for the life of me, manage to get it to run... I'm following this example http://clojurefun.wordpress.com/2012/12/24/invoking-clojure-code-from-java/ and it keeps saying Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: clojure/lang/RT
14:22	Morgawr	I have added the clojure-1.5.1.jar to the eclipse project
14:22	Morgawr	any idea how to do this?
14:24	cmajor7	Morgawr: if you have "import clojure.lang.RT", and you get "java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError" that means that jar is not in _runtime_ classpath
14:25	cmajor7	Morgawr: "clojure-1.5.1.jar" that is
14:25	Morgawr	cmajor7: I see
14:25	Morgawr	I'll try look
14:26	clgv	Morgawr: install Counterclockwise plugin for Eclipse and add the Clojure nature to the project or create a new clojure project
14:26	cmajor7	Morgawr: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9282440/how-do-i-edit-the-runtime-classpath-in-eclipse
14:26	lynaghk	bbloom: ping
14:27	Morgawr	clgv: I have counterclockwise but I don't want to add a new project, I'll look at the classpath thing
14:27	bbloom	lynaghk: pong
14:27	lynaghk	bbloom: are you aware of anyone using your pretty printing library to make a gofmt sort of thing for Clojure?
14:27	clgv	Morgawr: feel free to shoot yourself in the foot then ;)
14:27	lynaghk	I found an IRC log of you talking about it last year
14:27	lynaghk	gofmt and Clojure, that is.
14:28	lynaghk	In particular, we're standing up a CI server and I'm thinking of some nice things to organize our Clojure projects with.
14:28	technomancy	just shell out to emacs
14:28	bbloom	lynaghk: nothing i know of
14:28	technomancy	=D
14:28	hiredman	lynaghk: lein-bikeshed?
14:28	lynaghk	technomancy: you jest, but...
14:29	lynaghk	hiredman: don't worry, I'm well aware = )
14:29	hiredman	ok :)
14:29	Morgawr	clgv: yeah I know, I appreciate the help :P This is just a quick braindead test.. anyhow doing as cmajor7 said worked, I just forgot to add the clojure jar to the actual classpath
14:29	lynaghk	hiredman: I just want the diffs to be less noisy, and that everyone's editor has a "helpfully 'fix' indentation by default" policy it's going to get out of hand.
14:30	hiredman	ah
14:30	lynaghk	Don't worry, though, I intend on having a nice submission for the "emerging editors" Strange Loop track next year.
14:39	nightshade427	Hi all :)
14:40	allenj12	clojure.lang.lazyseq cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn dows that mean im using a seq inplace of a funtion somewhere?
14:40	justin_smith	allenj12: yeah, it means a lazy seq is getting called
14:41	callen	,((map identity (range 10)) 'blah)
14:41	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.LazySeq cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn>
14:41	scriptor	you might have the wrong argument order somewhere
14:41	callen	,((map identity (range 10)) :it :does :not :matter :what :you :put :here)
14:41	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.LazySeq cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn>
14:42	indigo	Man, why does Pedestal exist
14:42	callen	indigo: god hates us all
14:42	indigo	callen: It feels like it goes against the Clojure philosophy
14:42	callen	it does.
14:42	callen	indigo: the Relevance/Cognitect(?) guys wanted a somewhat...involved CLJ + CLJS framework that was very aggressively complicated in ways that are useful to the kinds of things they make.
14:43	callen	I don't think they made it with the intention of it becoming the web stack of choice for Clojure, at least, I hope not. That would be crazy.
14:43	indigo	But isn't rhickey part of Cognitect now
14:43	callen	Hickey has always been part of Datomic and Relevance AFAIK
14:43	rkneufeld	indigo: yep, we're working to simplify things in pedestal-app as well, but it'll be a long process.
14:43	callen	rkneufeld: thanks for merging that PR btw. I'll be working on that today.
14:44	rkneufeld	callen: good stuff
14:44	callen	rkneufeld: I have to check in on a functional JS meetup talking about Clojure first, but then I'll crank out the improvements to the Korma chapter. These will include not only more involved/interesting examples, but I'll make it REPL friendly too.
14:44	scriptor	what happened to http://clojure.com/reading.html?
14:44	callen	rkneufeld: would you be amenable to a brief prelude at the beginning explaining how to get the sqlite database rolling for the examples?
14:44	callen	(I'm switching it to SQLite so that readers don't have to get PG or MySQL installed)
14:45	indigo	rkneufeld: Cool :)
14:45	rkneufeld	callen: Yeah I think so. We have one or two other recipes that have a non-negligible amount of setup.
14:45	callen	the chapter is already REPL friendly, technically, but again, I don't think Postgres configuration is reasonable to ask of new people.
14:45	callen	so off to the land of fake SQL it is.
14:45	technomancy	callen: don't do that
14:45	xeqi	callen: how about h2 so you can just include a dependency?
14:46	nightshade427	Let me preface with I'm not trolling I genuinely am curious. I saw this and was wondering how it is different than things already done in scheme and Common Lisp for example. Is it so we can have this sorta thing on clojure platform as well? Just curious since from the sound of things on twitter people are "salivating" over it was wondering if there was something new about it.. https://github.com/clojure-numerics/expresso
14:46	callen	xeqi: even better.
14:46	technomancy	use h2
14:46	callen	technomancy: okay. that's fine.
14:46	callen	good idea guys, I forgot H2 existed :)
14:46	technomancy	the jdbc drivers for sqlite are sad face
14:46	callen	Not sure that matters for Korma.
14:46	callen	but duly noted.
14:46	callen	now I'm really glad I brought this up here :)
14:47	shaungilchrist	nightshade427: yes I think the draw is that it is in/plays nice with clojure
14:47	hiredman	technomancy: actually unless you pass a special option to h2 it explodes if you try to use it concurrently
14:47	callen	hiredman: errrr
14:47	hiredman	so derby
14:47	technomancy	hiredman: sqlite doesn't even have a special option tho
14:47	rkneufeld	I don't know that this will be an issue in the context of the recipe. The aim is to have something people can play with at the REPL.
14:47	technomancy	well, it does, but it doesn't work
14:47	nightshade427	shaungilchrist: Okay thanks was just checking :)
14:48	technomancy	but sure, derby =)
14:48	callen	rkneufeld: the initial suggestion of h2 was an improvement regardless. I'll let them finish bikeshedding if they want :P
14:48	callen	does derby vs. H2 really matter for a small REPL example designed to teach a library?
14:49	rkneufeld	callen: I like it for this purpose, too. We're probably going to go with lein-try as a standard across the book. IMO as little setup code as possible is best.
14:49	callen	rkneufeld: oh I already planned on using your plugin for this.
14:49	callen	no shim projects here :)
14:49	callen	lein-try is perfect for this kind of book.
14:49	rkneufeld	callen: I made it specifically for it, actually ;)
14:49	callen	I'm grateful it exists either way.
14:49	rkneufeld	Fallout was that it was kind of useful in general.
14:50	nDuff	technomancy: sqlite doesn't so much explode as spend all its time waiting for locks when used concurrently out-of-the-box, unless the JDBC drivers _really_ break it.
14:50	rkneufeld	Thanks.
14:50	callen	rkneufeld: I use it to poke at libraries all the time.
14:50	nDuff	s/locks/filesystem-level locks/
14:50	indigo	callen: Wait, are you the author of Korma
14:50	callen	indigo: no no. that's Chris Granger.
14:50	callen	I'm the "whip" for Korma.
14:51	indigo	Ahhh
14:51	allenj12	https://www.refheap.com/18958 at line 31 is there a sequence that shouldnt be? i dont think i like clojure errors
14:51	callen	indigo: If you abandon a PR on Korma's github I hunt your ass down and make you write the unit tests.
14:51	indigo	But I always write unit tests if I do a PR :P
14:52	callen	rkneufeld: also, I've been thinking about documenting formatting and the like - are you using asciidoc for the whole Clojure Cookbook?
14:52	callen	indigo: well, not everybody is like you.
14:52	indigo	In fact my PRs are probably the best quality code that I write :P
14:52	callen	indigo: you can check my Twitter feed to see what I mean.
14:52	callen	I don't doubt their PRs are probably some of their best code too, but people forget to write regression/unit tests.
14:52	rkneufeld	I'm actually working on that part of the front matter right now in the conventions branch. You're welcome to take over if you think you can do it this week. I just want to wrap it up before we start writing new recipes and fixing others.
14:52	callen	so...I go Dog the Bounty Hunter on them.
14:53	callen	rkneufeld: hum, no just curious about how to do the authoring side because I might be starting something after Clojure Cup.
14:53	callen	wanted to know if you had any recommendations or if asciidoc was working for you.
14:53	rkneufeld	Personally if I was not doing an O'Reilly book that required Asciidoc I would consider something else/.
14:53	borkdude	today I corrected a bug in a validation function… (let [val get m key] ..) -> (let [val (get m key)] ...
14:53	indigo	Haha nice
14:54	rkneufeld	Markdown if possible; it is less capable, but much easier to work with
14:54	indigo	Glad to see Clojure has such a vibrant community
14:54	callen	s4muel: are you ouvanous?
14:54	borkdude	I used org-mode to write this online 'book': http://michielborkent/clojurecursus
14:54	callen	borkdude: ...com?
14:54	borkdude	typo: http://michielborkent.nl/clojurecursus/
14:54	rkneufeld	indigo: Clojure's IRC is crazy active, but I'm always surprised how inactive the subreddit for it is (in terms of comments)
14:55	borkdude	the text is actually here http://michielborkent.nl/clojurecursus/dictaat.html
14:55	callen	rkneufeld: reddit is...not a nice place.
14:55	callen	there are weird java people on there.
14:55	callen	the java devs on Reddit are really defensive.
14:55	callen	yogthos complains about it all the time :)
14:55	rkneufeld	callen: interesting, I hadn't heard that before.
14:55	indigo	rkneufeld: Probably because real development is done on IRC/github :P
14:55	indigo	Mailing lists, too
14:56	callen	that too ^^
14:56	callen	vt100 or bust.
14:56	indigo	But just for kicks I subscribed to /r/clojure
14:56	TimMc	Who mods /r/clojure?
14:56	borkdude	I hardly use the mailing list for clojure - usually twitter and irc .. don't know why
14:56	rkneufeld	indigo: It's still my goto place to see what articles are in vogue at present.
14:56	TimMc	(I currently have reddit on Leechblock, so I can't check for myself.)
14:56	indigo	That usually HN for me
14:57	callen	TimMc: icey, hickey, chouser, cgrand, gnuvince, mac, fogus.
14:57	borkdude	I follow @newsycombinator on twitter which gives me the most important updates
14:57	TimMc	Whoa, lots of mods.
14:57	TimMc	(thanks)
14:57	rkneufeld	I don't know that many of them actively mod it
14:57	callen	they don't
14:57	callen	there's nothing to mod! (hee haw)
14:58	rkneufeld	callen: hehe. Well, if we ever want to change direction there I could reach out to Rich/Fogus/whomever.
14:58	indigo	I like reading the comments
14:58	indigo	There are some really dumb responses ;P
14:58	callen	posting to r/clojure right now :P
14:58	indigo	I should post clauth to /r/clojure
14:59	indigo	Maybe someone can figure out why it has what I think is a race condition
14:59	TimMc	I never think to announce new projects there.
14:59	callen	there, post made.
15:00	scriptor	even r/programming isn't as active as other large subs
15:01	callen	because cat pictures.
15:02	indigo	Not everyone's a programmer
15:02	callen	Prismatic + Twitter has replaced most of what I used Twitter for. Dev stuff is IRC + Twitter + mailing lists
15:02	munderwo	Hi all. I've got this snippet https://www.refheap.com/b3ac94bc7029d9f3d051a35ca its a ring handler. Im sending json in the body, and I think I understand that "foodtruck" is not a map that I can just add keys to. Ideally what I want is the body from the request (foodtruck) and add a map to it. How do I do this?
15:02	indigo	I think Reddit's demographic has shifted since it's become more mainstream
15:02	indigo	s/it's/its/
15:02	bosie	indigo: towards even whiter folks?
15:03	bosie	callen: how do you get Prismatic to not show so much nosie though?
15:03	callen	bosie: complaining at the Prismatic devs everytime their algorithm fails and shoves labia in my face instead of Clojure/dependent types posts.
15:03	callen	twitter is amazing for tech support.
15:04	bosie	callen: i do that hehe
15:04	indigo	Bleh... I got on twitter too late so I couldn't take sparkhom
15:04	bosie	callen: it just seems to be so fluctuating to me
15:04	technomancy	twitter is great for tech support as a user
15:04	technomancy	pretty rotten for it as a maintainer though =\
15:04	bosie	callen: sometimes i have like a top10 postlist that is superb all the way to the last post and then i have things (esp cycling related) that is just rubbish
15:05	callen	bosie: I watched the strange loop keynote from the prismatic employee, cool stuff.
15:05	callen	she did a good job of emphasizing the importance of feature extraction.
15:05	bosie	sure
15:06	bosie	let me google for that
15:06	callen	bosie: you can't.
15:06	callen	bosie: it
15:06	callen	is locked up for 6 months because they partner with InfoQ
15:06	bosie	:(
15:06	callen	I watched it with a coworker who got to go to Strange Loop
15:06	callen	(I didn't get to go)
15:06	callen	she used the projector in a meeting room and is letting me catch up on the talks that way.
15:06	justin_smith	munderwo: there is a ring handler that detects json in the request body and turns it into a map
15:07	cmajor7	callen: what is the keynote about?
15:07	justin_smith	or you could do that processing manually with cheshire if you really wanted to
15:07	bosie	callen: great
15:07	callen	cmajor7: about making Prismatic.
15:07	callen	cmajor7: mostly the data analysis parts.
15:07	callen	fairly lightweight talk but fun.
15:07	callen	bonus: cat gifs.
15:07	justin_smith	munderwo: ring.middleware.json/wrap-json-params
15:08	munderwo	justin_smith: right, I think that already happens, I think I have a middleware that does that. so when food truck comes in its the entire request in a map? or just the body (this is a post handler)
15:08	bosie	callen: we cant watch lambda-calculus-deriving maths all day long... ;)
15:08	cmajor7	callen: https://thestrangeloop.com/sessions/machine-learning-for-relevance-and-serendipity ?
15:08	bosie	callen: was it jenny finkel?
15:09	jbrechtel	She gave a keynote at StrangeLoop about making Prismatic
15:09	jbrechtel	almost certainly her talk
15:10	justin_smith	munderwo: ah, I see. yeah, you get a bunch of info in the request. What I like to do is start a repl in the same process running ring, and in the ns with my controller: (defonce debug (atom nil)) (defn my-controller [request] (reset! debug request) ...) then I can just play with the request in the repl and see what I can do with what comes in
15:10	bosie	callen: any idea if there is an android app coming?
15:10	justin_smith	especailly when my frontend guy is simultaneously developing, and maybe deciding what he wants his request to look like, this helps us converge
15:10	tos9	!3
15:10	jbrechtel	bosie: Someone asked that question after her talk. She said they don't have specific plans for it right now (not on their schedule) but it's one of their most request features. :/
15:11	munderwo	justin_smith: oh I don't know how to do that. whats the debug lib? Im coming from Python so being able to break into a repl as some point and looking around would be really helpful.
15:11	justin_smith	munderwo: it is not a lib
15:11	justin_smith	I just create an atom and call it debug
15:11	justin_smith	then use it in a repl to see what I can do with it
15:12	bosie	jbrechtel: indeed ':/'
15:12	justin_smith	munderwo: you can use clojure.tools.nrepl to spawn a repl server from inside your app
15:12	justin_smith	then connect to it from your editor or with lein repl connect <port>
15:13	munderwo	justin_smith: ahh cool. I'll give that a go. Just struggling up the learning curve atm :)
15:13	justin_smith	munderwo: having everything in a repl where you can manipulate it definitely speeds learning
15:13	callen	bosie: no idea, I own an iPhone.
15:14	munderwo	justin_smith: Yeah, I think the issue is getting your head around how to get it all in the repl :)
15:14	justin_smith	munderwo: https://github.com/clojure/tools.nrepl that page describes how to pull in the dep and how to start an nrepl server from inside your code
15:14	callen	cmajor7: think so.
15:14	justin_smith	once you have the repl, you can then (require '[my.controller.namespace :as control]) @control/debug
15:15	justin_smith	to see the contents of that atom, which gets reset with each request
15:15	Jarda	ok, I need a very simple http-json-service. Is ring with compojure the way to go?
15:15	Bracki	Coming from python when I define [& :keys [foo bar]] how do I pass those elsewhere without (baz :foo foo :bar bar) but rather what `**kwargs` would do?
15:16	Jarda	I need to have authentication and serving of json
15:16	justin_smith	Bracki: [& keys [foo bar] :as baz]
15:16	callen	Bracki: kwargs type code isn't as idiomatic in Clojure as it is in Python, just so you know.
15:16	callen	It's fine, there's nothing "wrong" with it, just be aware.
15:17	TimMc	Yes there is. o\__/o
15:17	hyPiRion	~mapply
15:17	clojurebot	You have to do something like (defn mapply [f & args] (apply f (apply concat (butlast args) (last args)))), which just goes to show why unrolled keyword args are a bad idea
15:18	Bracki	,paste
15:18	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: paste in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0:0)>
15:19	TimMc	Bracki: A better arglist looks like [a b {:keys [foo bar] :as opts}]. The :as opts is optional, and you can also do something like [a b & [{:keys [foo bar]}]] if you want to make the entire options map itself optional.
15:20	Jarda	about naming conventions should I have src/my_server or src/my-server or src/myserver or src/my/server ?
15:20	TimMc	Jarda: Definitely not src/my-server, since paths have to have underscores instead of hyphens. :-)
15:20	Bracki	http://pastebin.com/59JTLvvF is what I have now
15:21	callen	Bracki: I realizing humping the args/kwargs is the only way to do metaprogramming Python, but you can do better in Clojure.
15:21	Jarda	TimMc: ok
15:21	Jarda	TimMc: but underscores are ok?
15:22	TimMc	Yes, they correspond to hyphens in namespace names.
15:22	Bracki	What I really want is, if JavaType take java thing, otherwise take a map and construct java thing.
15:22	Jarda	so I can say (:use [my-server]) ?
15:22	TimMc	Jarda: So namespace foo.bar-baz lives in foo/bar_baz.clj in your src dir.
15:22	Jarda	ok thanks
15:23	TimMc	Jarda: You generally want more than one segment in the name; single-segment namespaces can have classloader problems.
15:23	TimMc	For that reason, my.server (src/my/server.clj) would be better.
15:23	justin_smith	Jarda: also, while use comes up in all the example code you find on the web, it leads to hard to maintain codebases in my experience, it is better to :require with an alias, so when you need to split or refactor namespaces you can see where each function called came from
15:24	Jarda	justin_smith: yes I'm doing it
15:24	justin_smith	ok, just figured I'd mention
15:24	Jarda	thanks all. This channel is a life saver
15:27	jtoy	i see that I can't do multiple line-seqs on a file, how would I do that? Im trying to do this: https://www.refheap.com/18961
15:27	jtoy	i want to do several different counts on a file
15:28	`cbp	jtoy: make a local that holds the line-seq above p-count
15:29	Bracki	To rephrase it: (def foo(new Foo x y z)), (defn bar [foo]). If foo is a Foo cool, if foo is map construct Foo. Is that common practice?
15:29	nDuff	Huh. Somewhat disappointed to see that not many other folks are using clojure.osgi
15:29	jtoy	`cbp: im not exactly sure what that means, like my-lineseq (line-seq rdr) ,then i can use my-linesq and line-seq seperately?
15:29	nDuff	(or, at least, nobody else has updated it for 1.5.x yet)
15:30	rosster	Has anyone had any success with using rubygems in clojure projects by compiling them to jars using jruby?
15:31	rosster	I have manged to get my own ruby code compiled in to a jar and can call it from my clojure project, but I am struggling doing the same with a gem
15:31	rosster	Any help would really be appreciated
15:32	`cbp	jtoy: (let [ls (line-seq rdr) ... at the top
15:32	`cbp	then just reuse ls
15:34	`cbp	jtoy: line-seq creates a lazy seq of lines. Once you realize it (by using filter/count) the reader will be fully 'read' so you can't really do anything else with it. But you can reuse the seq you have
15:35	`cbp	Bracki: that's what protocols are for
15:36	jtoy	I use, thank you `cbp
15:36	jtoy	I see
15:36	`cbp	Bracki: doing stuff according to type i mean
15:37	nDuff	rosster: if you can show us how you call something from Java, we should be able to help you call it from Clojure.
15:40	rosster	nDuff: I am not actually using java (directly anyway), I basically want to take my ruby code and call it from clojure. I have managed to do this, but now that I have added a gem to the project, it seems to be causing problems
15:40	rosster	The steps I am doing are as follows:
15:41	rosster	jar -cf path/to/myjar.jar -C /path/to/the/gems/ .
15:41	rosster	that creates the jar file
15:41	nDuff	rosster: if that jar includes .gem files rather than .class files, it's not actually compiled.
15:41	rosster	and seems to be correct when i inspect it with "jar -tf myjar.jar \| less"
15:41	rosster	ahh, i see
15:42	rosster	so I need to first compile the gem with jrubyc i guess
15:43	nDuff	The exact tooling/process would be a question for the JRuby folks, but something like that, yes.
15:43	callen	I need a life insurance beneficiary. What's a good organization?
15:43	nDuff	the EFF?
15:43	callen	Dunzo. Thanks.
15:45	llasram	rosster: What you probably actually want to do is use Clojure to call the Java API exposed for accessing the JRuby runtime
15:46	llasram	Last I checked, jrubyc is not a general-purpose tool. IIRC it basically wraps a ruby script in a class, so that the actual source is embedded in the class
15:46	rosster	nDuff: thanks, checking out jruby forums seeing if someone else has done it
15:46	llasram	rosster: This talk has some info: http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Good-Bad-Ugly-Clojure-JRuby
15:46	rosster	llasram: thanks I see, then I wouldnt need the ruby files compiled
15:47	rosster	thanks will check it out now
15:47	llasram	For the JRuby Java API, check out org.jruby.javasupport.JavaEmbedUtils
16:20	Bracki	How do I publish my project to clojars? And, how do I include a dependency on an artifact in a non public/self hosted maven repo?
16:20	Raynes	gf3: hi
16:21	jbrechtel	Bracki: Regarding the dependency you'd include it just like any other dependency. Whoever resolves the dependencies just needs to have a repository with the artifact in their list of repositories.
16:22	Bracki	Can't I fatjar and just include it?
16:22	jbrechtel	Bracki: Also, clojars has a 'dead easy' description of how to publish on their homepage: https://clojars.org/
16:23	jbrechtel	Bracki: Haven't done that with a Clojure project but I can't imagine why it wouldn't work...the classes would end up in the classpath. The risk being that if someone else uses a different version of your dependency explicitly then you'll be in a difficult to debug state. But I suppose if the dependency is in a non-public repo to begin with then that's rather unlikely.
16:23	Bracki	jbrechtel: ok, cool.
16:25	trptcolin	trying to reason through some core.async (cljs) tests - i don't see any way to guarantee that assertions in a go block ever get run (https://github.com/clojure/core.async/blob/master/src/test/cljs/cljs/core/async/tests.cljs#L29-L49)
16:26	trptcolin	i.e. i can throw (is= 1 2) in there and that test passes too.
16:26	tbaldridge	trptcolin: there isn't really
16:27	trptcolin	tbaldridge: ok cool, glad i'm not going crazy.
16:30	trptcolin	actually i guess my real question underlying this: is there a way i can exercise & test what happens in some go block? aside from manually testing it?
16:30	trptcolin	or some crazy with-redefs voodoo
16:35	tbaldridge	trptcolin: yeah, give me a few minutes to finish this phone call
16:35	trptcolin	awesome, sure thing
16:36	amalloy	trptcolin: i guess all you can do is test what comes out of it, right?
16:37	trptcolin	amalloy: in clojure-jvm i could do a blocking take
16:40	tbaldridge	trptcolin: the things I did when right those tests that helped was use timeout channels and other go block to check the returns. Also have each test print out "testing...." so you can see if it started running.
16:41	tbaldridge	And then realize that some browsers (like chrome) barf up errors into the console. so if you get an assertion failure you will see a console error.
16:41	tbaldridge	but yeah, all those options stink, and I don't have a solid answer.
16:41	trptcolin	tbaldridge: hmm, but i think those other go blocks' assertions don't actually get run
16:43	trptcolin	... since i added some obviously false assertions and the tests still passed. but i'm actually not seeing the "testing..." output via `lein test`, so maybe something else is wrong too...
16:44	tbaldridge	trptcolin: oh yeah, the cljs tests don't run via lein test
16:44	trptcolin	doh, just came to that same conclusion
16:47	trptcolin	ok, got it, and i guess when they run in the browser via script/runtests.html the failed results can happen async and everything's cool
16:47	trptcolin	this makes a lot more sense now, thanks
16:49	allenj12	hello peeps
16:51	Bracki	Hm, how do I deploy a uberjar to clojars?
16:53	TimMc	Bracki: Clojars has information on that, yeah?
16:54	technomancy	that's not really what clojars is for
16:54	technomancy	it's meant for libraries
16:55	grav_	Is it possible (and idiomatic) to use macros for hiding a global variable?
16:55	grav_	Ops, sorry, I'll just change username and repeat the question :-)
16:56	klokbaske	Is it possible (and idiomatic) to use macros for hiding a global variable?
16:56	jweiss	this may of may not help you but i wrote a lein plugin where if you have the plugin you can execute any clojars project - https://github.com/weissjeffm/lein-runproject
16:56	klokbaske	I have an output device which has two buffers, and I have to keep track of the active buffer myself, so I was thinking about hiding it in a macro
16:56	callen	jweiss: https://github.com/rkneufeld/lein-try ?
16:57	jweiss	callen: that's what my plugin is based on
16:57	Bracki	technomancy: I know, but I have to workaround the problem that I depend on a Java lib that hasn't been published to MVN central...
16:57	jweiss	but lein try is more for starting a repl than running :main
16:57	jweiss	Bracki: you could publish it to clojars
16:58	Bracki	how?
16:58	clojurebot	with style and grace
17:00	jweiss	Bracki: you'd write a short project.clj for it and specify its deps (if any) then deploy it.
17:00	gf3	Raynes: Hay friend
17:02	Bracki	Ah, I see. scp to the rescue...
17:04	TimMc	Bracki: And it is that dependency that you are pushing to clojars?
17:04	mikerod	if you have a var, such as (def myvar (Object.)), when would this (Object.) be eligible for garbage collection? (alter-var-root myvar (constantly nil)) ; would that do it?
17:04	TimMc	Oh, I see -- you're pushing an uberjar containing that dep along with your code. No, better to get just that dependency onto clojars by itself.
17:05	hyPiRion	mikerod: yes
17:05	mikerod	(despite alter-var-root being messy)
17:05	mikerod	hyPiRion: is there a better way to signal you are done with the var's value and would like it garbage collected? (this is coming up in a series of test namespaces)
17:06	mikerod	I was thinking
17:06	Bracki	TimMc: yes
17:06	hyPiRion	don't use it as a var if you want it garbage collected
17:07	Bracki	TimMc: just the dependency, no uberjar
17:07	mikerod	(def myvar (atom (Object.)) >> then >> (swap! myvar (constantly nil))
17:07	mikerod	the reference is shared across many testing functions
17:07	TEttinger	Bracki, heh I've been there
17:07	mikerod	then I'm done with it
17:08	mikerod	I guess I could just do a fixture that dynamically binds it once for all tests or something like that
17:08	mdeboard	Are there any live repls out there for clojurescript?
17:08	Bracki	Should I even worry about GPG or just ignore it?
17:08	hyPiRion	why would you bother to clean up after tests? They aren't loaded when you're uberjaring or `lein run`ing etc
17:08	mikerod	hurting test performance...
17:08	mikerod	var holds a resource that is expensive to load
17:09	mikerod	and each test needs a different one of these expensive resources
17:09	TimMc	Bracki: I don't know if you can easily combine GPG with jars that lein didn't build itself.
17:09	seangrov`	mdeboard: austin?
17:09	hyPiRion	so you're benchmarking and testing? Well. I'd guess (alter-var-root ) and then (System/gc) would do it
17:09	mikerod	not benchmarking, it is just annoying to have slow tests
17:10	mikerod	that sounds fine to me though. if it is any different to you, we are using clojure-maven-plugin (I know, I know; lein is superior)
17:12	allenj12	https://www.refheap.com/18965 anyone know why that for loop isnt getting called?
17:12	hyPiRion	well, you could also put the computation in a delay, and then deref it inside the tests
17:12	hyPiRion	if you want to avoid loading it when you're not running those specific tests
17:13	mdeboard	seangrov`: Sorry?
17:14	mdeboard	seangrov`: I'm not in or named austin :P A coworker of mine is bitching about CLJS without ever having touched it, and is asking if there's a live "interpreter" like coffeescript.org has
17:14	mikerod	hyPiRion: I didn't think about that as far as delaying the load time actually (I even used `delay` in this sentence, ironic).
17:15	mikerod	I'm still thinking we may benefit from having it able to be GC'ed after the test is done, but that is helpful
17:15	scriptor	mdeboard: http://himera.herokuapp.com/index.html
17:15	hyPiRion	mikerod: you can still alter-var-root it afterwards
17:15	hyPiRion	(and gc)
17:16	mikerod	hyPiRion: Indeed. Thanks for the advice!
17:16	hyPiRion	np
17:16	mdeboard	scriptor: Awesome, thanks. Does this have the ability to output the javascript at all?
17:17	Bracki	Haha, success! Thanks for the help. Retrieving clj-nsca/clj-nsca/0.0.1/clj-nsca-0.0.1.pom from clojars
17:17	scriptor	hmm, not sure
17:17	dnolen	mdeboard: just wrap in (fn [] ...)
17:17	seangrov`	mdeboard: oh, I see, I was suggestion cemerick's austin, it's a great setup for cljs repl
17:17	scriptor	woah, I didn't know what was possible
17:17	dnolen	mdeboard: but CLJS ain't CoffeeScript we don't try to produce anything pretty - and source maps have landed (though needs some touching up)
17:18	seangrov`	But it's not a web-based repl, there's this though http://www.clojurescript.net/
17:18	scriptor	mdeboard: on top of what dnolen said, this page is pretty nice as a learning aid http://himera.herokuapp.com/synonym.html
17:20	mdeboard	dnolen: No, I get it. I told him about the 'prettyprint' option etc.
17:21	scriptor	mdeboard: what are his points, anyway?
17:23	mdeboard	scriptor: That he is leery of languages that hide the fact you're writing javascript, he cites GWT as example. That's a general concern of his, he doesn't know much/anything about cljs except what was in rhickey's talk last week. I've just been bleating about channels the psat couple days
17:23	scriptor	his strange loop talk?
17:23	mdeboard	yeah
17:23	scriptor	good talk, but I don't remember a lot of specific mentions of cljs
17:23	scriptor	other than that async works in it
17:24	mdeboard	exactly :P
17:24	scriptor	other than that async works in it
17:24	scriptor	er, disregard
17:25	nDuff	mdeboard: there's also clojurescript.net, which is running a self-hosting fork.
17:25	mdeboard	dnolen: Is the current maven artifact for clojurescript working with core.async now?
17:27	allenj12	you can have the else of a for loop just dove right into a (let...) right?
17:28	dnolen	mdeboard: don't think so
17:28	dnolen	mdeboard: rhickey landed some new goodies, would like to see those ported and tested so perhaps soon?
17:31	mdeboard	dnolen: I see, the channel map/reduce deals? That looked great
17:31	dnolen	yes, happy to see those are to make into the lib
17:31	pbostrom	allenj12: for is lazy, you might want doseq instead
17:31	dnolen	instead of seeing them replicated everywhere
17:31	dnolen	the mixing stuff looks cool, need to play w/ that.
17:31	noprompt	dnolen: looks like we figured out the bug the other day, it was mapcat.
17:32	dnolen	noprompt: sorry context is gone, mapcat?
17:32	allenj12	pbostrom: o ill try it
17:32	noprompt	dnolen: wrt our conversation yesterday about dynamic vars in cljs. it turns out they weren't the culprit.
17:32	allenj12	pbostrom: do i keep the (do...) with doseq?
17:32	dnolen	noprompt: good to hear, but a bug or not a bug?
17:33	pbostrom	allenj12: it won't hurt, but doseq should have an implicit do
17:33	noprompt	dnolen: i'm not sure if it's a bug or not, but according to the PR author the behavior of `mapcat` is different in cljs.
17:34	dnolen	noprompt: sounds like a bug - different how?
17:34	allenj12	pbostrom: ThNX!
17:35	noprompt	dnolen: i'm not exactly sure. i'll ask for some more details in the thread.
17:36	amalloy	noprompt, dnolen: a quick peek at the source makes me think mapcat is more lazy in cljs than in clj-jvm
17:36	allenj12	pbostrom: is there a way once i find an answer to stop and ouput cause it seems to solve but keeps going through the loop and laying out all configurations lol
17:38	amalloy	because jvm's versions of apply, concat, and mapcat dispatch on arities up to 4, it has to realize the first four-ish elements of each input collection; if this doesn't happen in cljs, it might expose the error in some code that incorrectly depends on it being realized earlier, eg by expecting a dynamic var to be bound
17:39	noprompt	amalloy: ha, i was just about to ask you if that would have any effect on realization.
17:40	noprompt	dnolen: let me see if i can't replicate the issue.
17:52	squidz	[5~
17:52	rasmusto	squidz: gesundheit
18:12	allenj12	is there an idiomatic way to "break" when in a recursive funtion that tries to complete a doseq
18:14	noprompt	dnolen: here's the gist https://gist.github.com/noprompt/6691714
18:15	noprompt	dnolen: i suppose i could simplify it abit.
18:16	rasmusto	allenj12: you can (doseq [blah someseq :while (somecondition)] (do foo), dunno if that helps
18:16	dnolen	noprompt: I don't know why people think that should work
18:16	dnolen	noprompt: you need a doall around the mapcat
18:16	dnolen	noprompt: which is what amalloy was alluding to
18:17	noprompt	dnolen: really? but why the difference between clj and cljs?
18:17	dnolen	noprompt: different implementation but the fact that it works in clj is sheer luck
18:17	amalloy	noprompt: yeah, that is rubbish. in a perfect world, (binding [foo bar] (mapcat ...)) is exactly identical to (mapcat ...)
18:17	allenj12	rasmusto: wait so could i make a global variable and set it to true when the condition is met. because even if one doseq break i have a whole recurive chain of doeqs left
18:18	noprompt	well ok. i feel like an idiot.
18:18	amalloy	clj-jvm does some optimizations that make things more eager, which means it sometimes works
18:18	rasmusto	allenj12: no, I'm not saying to make a global variable, are you saying that your doseqs are called recursively and could be infinite at any of those calls?
18:18	allenj12	rasmusto: im gonna try that but ill also show my code
18:18	dnolen	noprompt: nah, binding + laziness burns pretty everyone at least once
18:18	amalloy	at least twice, really
18:19	dnolen	haha
18:19	Bracki	This whole map,:keys as arguments keeps confusing me. Are (foo {:a 1 :b 1}) and (foo :a 1 :b 1} equivalent?
18:19	allenj12	rasmusto: not infinite but can check a whole search space... so close to infinite as far as memory is concerned
18:19	noprompt	wow, well that was an easy fix.
18:19	noprompt	:P
18:19	allenj12	rasmusto: https://www.refheap.com/18968 it recurively call a-start towards the bottom
18:19	rasmusto	allenj12: do you use 'for' to make them lazy?
18:20	allenj12	rasmusto: no because it wouldnt print at all remember? :P
18:20	amalloy	Bracki: no
18:20	Bracki	amalloy: How do I convert the first into the second?
18:21	rasmusto	well, doseq'll realize them unless you give them a stop condition afaik
18:21	noprompt	i need to start a blog titled "Clojure Burns"
18:22	noprompt	the good thing is i can delete some code now. :)
18:25	Glenjamin	is it better to use a binding over just passing the context into an inner function in the above example?
18:27	TEttinger	gah super noob question. I need to convert this line of java to clojure: atlas = new TextureAtlas(Gdx.files.internal("packedimages/pack"));
18:27	TEttinger	files is static, and I can't figure out how to do the . on a static public member
18:27	TimMc	noprompt: I would like that.
18:28	allenj12	rasmusto: so would a global variable be "taboo" i dont see how else to make the stop condition w/o one. im probably not being clever enough tho
18:29	Glenjamin	TEttinger maybe this? http://clojure.org/java_interop#Java%20Interop-Classname/staticField
18:29	TimMc	noprompt: It would make a good clojure-docs section as well.
18:29	cmajor7	TEttinger: (TextureAtlas. (.internal Gdx$files "packedimages/pack"))
18:30	TEttinger	cmajor7, really this is a use for $ ? I thought I wouldn't need it, thanks
18:30	noprompt	TimMc: if i could just find the time and motivation to blog though.
18:30	cmajor7	TEttinger: or if "internal" is static => (TextureAtlas. (Gdx$files/internal "packedimages/pack"))
18:30	TEttinger	I will check
18:31	TEttinger	(inc cmajor7)
18:31	lazybot	⇒ 1
18:31	muhoo	wow, that's kinky
18:31	TimMc	noprompt: Would you like some motivation? I could threaten to throw a wolverine into your bed if you don't do it.
18:31	noprompt	ehf, this programming stuff is not for the faint of heart.
18:31	noprompt	TimMc: that would probably kill me.
18:32	TEttinger	cmajor7, nope. Caused by: java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: Gdx$files in this context
18:32	Glenjamin	try Gdx/files
18:32	Glenjamin	if it's a static member of Gdx
18:32	noprompt	sigh i was offered another front-end javascript job this week. they're not interested in cljs. :(
18:32	Glenjamin	so (.internal Gdx/files "packedimages/pack")
18:33	cmajor7	TEttinger: ok, I thought "files" is inner class. If it is static, then Gdx/files
18:33	TEttinger	cmajor7, Glenjamin, thanks, I'll keep at it
18:33	allenj12	Tettinger: o hey were u the one interested in my A*
18:33	TEttinger	yup
18:33	noprompt	dnolen: i need a good sales pitch. :)
18:33	muhoo	noprompt: do it on contract?
18:34	noprompt	muhoo: no it's a job job.
18:34	muhoo	i.e. "i'll deliver this thing adn you needn't worry about what language it's written in"
18:34	allenj12	Tettinger: if u wanna see progress its here https://www.refheap.com/18968 just need to make a breaking point somehow and i should be good to go
18:35	hyPiRion	muhoo: "But I want to hire some guy later if something goes wrong, and I need to ensure I can get a guy understanding said language"
18:35	dnolen	noprompt: heh, well I'm assuming that's because they have maintain it?
18:35	scriptor	noprompt: the vast majority of places aren't, unfortunately
18:35	muhoo	noprompt: oh, then the sales pitch is "you won't need another headcount". and if you think you can do it a lot faster/better in cljs than js, "it'll cost you a shit-ton less money and will ship faster if i do it turnkey in cljs"
18:35	noprompt	muhoo: contract js sure. but i get to write clj/cljs at my current job (cause i work alone and call the shots). asking me to give that up and write raw js, is eh, not the direction i want to move in.
18:36	noprompt	dnolen: they're mostly afraid that if i left no one could maintain it.
18:36	dnolen	noprompt: right
18:36	noprompt	dnolen: but i assure them i was more than willing to explain it.
18:36	noprompt	and that i wouldn't bail in like a year or something.
18:36	scriptor	getting a whole team to learn a new language takes time
18:37	muhoo	noprompt: there's nothing wrong with walking away from the offer.
18:37	Bracki	https://github.com/bracki/clj-nsca/blob/master/src/clj_nsca/core.clj#L8 <- I assume this isn't the best way of doing it. Should I just take a single argument instead?
18:37	hyPiRion	Getting a whole team to understand a codebase may take significantly much more time, actually.
18:37	hyPiRion	That's the problem though, because people don't realize that.
18:37	noprompt	muhoo: i know. it's just funny cause i know these people and it's like um, have you heard a word i've said the past year?
18:37	technomancy	"Use Clojure; you will have an easier time retaining easily-bored empolyees."
18:38	technomancy	practically sells itself
18:38	talios	"don't use hibernate, you'll not make them cry either" :)
18:39	noprompt	technomancy: that's a bumper sticker.
18:39	s4muel	noprompt: if they have not motivated themselves to not write "plain" javascript, it is doubtful you will be able to foist clojurescript on them as some sort of city on a hill, despite your admonitions to use cljs or clojure or god-please-just-no-more-js. Either it's political or they don't care
18:39	noprompt	I DON'T BELIEVE THE LIBERAL PROGRAMMING MEDIA.
18:40	mdeboard	^
18:40	mdeboard	Bill O'Reilly is on to you guys.
18:40	muhoo	it's all a conspiracy.
18:41	talios	mmm, java code generated by the current frege compiler SO much nicer to deal with from java. nice.
18:41	noprompt	s4muel: similar thoughts had crossed my mind. essentially, i think they want me to turn a pile of jQuery/underscore code in to something more sophisticated and maintainable. by the sound of what they wanted to do, the thought of writing that soley in pure javascript was horrifying.
18:42	noprompt	i'm not saying you can't write large code bases in raw js. certainly you can with a strong team of competent people.
18:42	noprompt	but if you're looking for one person to maintain a large code base in javascript, i don't think raw js is the way to go. i've seen what that looks like and it's not pretty.
18:43	scriptor	noprompt: have you worked on a large codebase in clojurescript?
18:43	dnolen	writing a large pile of underscore.js and jQuery does not excite me
18:43	mdeboard	^
18:43	noprompt	scriptor: i'm working on one now.
18:43	dnolen	noprompt: so are you going to use Backbone ?
18:43	mdeboard	Smashing the DOM with $ until it succumbs to your will
18:43	TEttinger	gahhh speaking of $
18:44	dnolen	noprompt: I don't really believe in MVC but it doesn't provide some modicum of structured thinking
18:44	noprompt	dnolen: no. i'd probably go with angularjs if there was absolutely no way i could convince them to think about letting me write clojurescript.
18:44	dnolen	noprompt: gotcha
18:44	TEttinger	can't seem to get this static mess of java interop to work
18:44	dnolen	er s/doesn't/does re: MVC
18:44	TEttinger	https://github.com/libgdx/libgdx/blob/master/gdx/src/com/badlogic/gdx/Files.java?source=c#L61 this is the line I need to call
18:45	TEttinger	I keep getting a NPE with different variants on calls
18:45	noprompt	dnolen: it's less the sheer number of available resources for js, than it is mutability, quirks, and the overall "insane" vibe i get programming in the language.
18:46	clj_less_newby	nrepl
18:46	TEttinger	it;s possible Gdx is null....
18:46	TEttinger	(def packed (TextureAtlas. (.internal (. Gdx files) "res/slashem-packed/pack"))) ;; my current line
18:46	clj_less_newby	when clojure.tools.namesapce.refresh gives an error, is there a way to see it in emacs rather than the terminal where lein was started?
18:47	noprompt	idk, maybe i'm just a whiny little baby who doesn't have the cojones to brogram in js.
18:47	Glenjamin	heh, it depends what you define as "raw js"
18:48	noprompt	dnolen: are you still at the times? is clojurescript in use there?
18:48	Glenjamin	splitting into proper modules and writing tests makes a big difference
18:48	vijaykiran	why does kibit suggest using (set ...) instead of (into {} ...) ?
18:48	dnolen	noprompt: yep, no CLJS as of yet, though someone presented it here and I wasn't involved at all so the word is getting out.
18:48	Bracki	Can somebody point me to a good multi arity, maps as arguments what not tutorial.
18:48	amalloy	TEttinger: i don't get it. that looks like the only possible way you could call it; if you get an NPE, then one of the following is null: Gdx, Gdx.files, or the result of calling .internal
18:49	amalloy	and you can easily test which of those it is
18:49	TEttinger	yep, on it
18:50	noprompt	dnolen: that's really cool. the application i'm working on now is clj/cljs and i'm hoping that when i share it with the other papers in the company it will raise awareness and gain some interest.
18:50	TEttinger	amalloy, it's files. files is nil. gaaaah
18:50	noprompt	dnolen: most of the developers in the company use js/php/python, so i'm kind of excited to share a "real world" solution written in clojure w/ the company.
18:51	`cbp	more like a real language amirite
18:52	amalloy	`cbp: thanks man, what we really need in this channel is irrelevant bashing of other languages
18:52	`cbp	=P
18:53	sinsnare\|awayyyy	TEttinger: libgdx!
18:54	TEttinger	hey sinsnare\|awayyyy
18:54	sinsnare\|awayyyy	hey, i have to go, but i saw a Gdx, and had to speak out!
18:54	TEttinger	what about it?
18:55	TEttinger	have you gotten it to work?
18:55	sinsnare\|awayyyy	im working on doing libgdx in multiple languages https://github.com/libgdx/libgdx/wiki/Using-libgdx-with-other-jvm-languages gonna add sub articles
18:55	TEttinger	ah cool
18:55	TEttinger	well if you know why files could possibly be nil...
18:55	sinsnare\|awayyyy	working on jython right now, and when i get frustrated with jython, clojure, then after i get frustrated...
18:55	TEttinger	Gdx/files
18:55	sinsnare\|awayyyy	it shouldnt be
18:56	sinsnare\|awayyyy	#libgdx might be helpful, but i do have to go!!!
18:57	sinsnare\|awayyyy	(.internal (. Gdx files) isnt how its done
18:57	sinsnare\|awayyyy	(.internal Gdx/files "assets/droplet.png")
18:57	sinsnare\|awayyyy	but yeah....
18:59	rasmusto	allenj12: sorry, I'm distracted atm. I don't think a global would be "idiomatic", to say the least. You may want to explore generating lazy seqs, and printing them out as you traverse them, making sure you don't fully realize them
19:02	amalloy	TEttinger, sinsnare: Gdx/files would be the more typical way to write it, but it will macroexpand to the same thing
19:02	allenj12	rasmusto: hmmm kk
19:03	gfredericks	is it weird that aset expands to a call to RT? do we expect the jvm to optimize that away?
19:03	gfredericks	(rather than explicitely have a mechanism for doing a raw array set)
19:04	dnolen	gfredericks: calls to RT will get inlined so not sure it matters much
19:04	dnolen	gfredericks: well calls like that anyway
19:05	gfredericks	dnolen: good to know, thx
19:08	amalloy	gfredericks: check out https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/Intrinsics.java
19:10	amalloy	basically whenever bytecode to call one of these methods would be generated, instead a call to the corresponding simple-instruction is generated. the RT methods are mostly there as placeholders for macros to expand into
19:11	amalloy	(and so that reflection can solve it in cases where the types aren't known at compile time, of course)
19:12	gfredericks	hmm
19:12	gfredericks	I'm currently fighting with the type hints
19:13	dnolen	gfredericks: array type hints?
19:13	gfredericks	yeah
19:14	gfredericks	trying to use an int array
19:14	gfredericks	and my aset keeps reflecting
19:14	clojurebot	Cool story bro.
19:14	dnolen	using ^ints ?
19:14	gfredericks	yeah
19:14	gfredericks	Unable to resolve classname: clojure.core/ints
19:14	gfredericks	this is from a macro
19:14	gfredericks	so maybe it's expanding it
19:14	gfredericks	or something like that
19:14	gfredericks	I guess I don't do type hints from macros much :)
19:14	hiredman	the index also needs to be a known type
19:15	gfredericks	I'm gonna type-hint the symbol and unquote it in
19:15	gfredericks	rather than trusting syntax quote
19:15	dnolen	gfredericks: oh you're doing this in a macro?
19:15	amalloy	gfredericks: inside a macro you don't want to do it that way
19:16	amalloy	`(aset ~(with-meta xs '{:tag ints}) ...), for example
19:16	gfredericks	yeah that's about what I ended up with
19:16	amalloy	the point is the macro needs to emit a symbol with a typehint, as opposed to containing a typehint for its own internals
19:17	gfredericks	yeah; I knew that once my attention was drawn to it
19:17	gfredericks	thx folks
19:19	gfredericks	love it when things get 1000 times faster :)
19:19	gfredericks	reflection's great for making you feel like you know how to optimize code
19:22	gfredericks	now to try unchecked-math
19:29	gfredericks	over twice as fast :)
19:29	gfredericks	I'd forgotten computers could do things this fast
19:29	hiredman	gfredericks: did you see the ndarray thread on the ml?
19:29	hyPiRion	gfredericks: now do it in parallel on a GPU
19:30	gfredericks	hyPiRion: that is mystic stuff
19:30	gfredericks	hiredman: maybe not? clojure-dev?
19:30	hyPiRion	welcome to my world
19:30	hiredman	gfredericks: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/clojure/Mq0jsIS_Y-o/L1eFwF8ac60J
19:31	gfredericks	hiredman: thanks, this'll be interesting
19:41	muhoo	-funroll_loops
19:51	llasram	muhoo: http://funroll-loops.info/ ?
20:09	akurilin	Howdy. I'm trying to figure out how to keep my site's front-end resources outside of the uberjar so that they can be edited separately without the web app having to be restarted. I feel like this is something a lot of people must have dealt with before.
20:09	akurilin	I'm not sure what the best practice in java for this is. Do you somehow just relative path to a separate folder from within your code?
20:10	technomancy	cdn?
20:11	akurilin	technomancy, let's keep it on the same box for now. I'm thinking templated html files etc as well.
20:11	akurilin	In the real world CDN would probably be ideal.
20:12	technomancy	putting a dir on the classpath is easy enough
20:13	akurilin	technomancy, so if I'm understanding correctly, just add a dir to the classpath that's relative to the jar file? So for example have an uberjar and an assets/ folder in the same folder?
20:13	justin_smith	akurilin: we use s3 for that
20:13	justin_smith	there are decent clojure bindings for the service
20:14	technomancy	akurilin: doesn't have to be relative to the jar file
20:14	akurilin	justin_smith, is there an advantage to having these files hosted on s3 as opposed to being loadable from the same disk the service is running on?
20:15	justin_smith	akurilin: it can help page load time, theoretically, since two different servers' bandwidth is used (in reality that depends on the CDN's bandwidth of course)
20:16	akurilin	justin_smith, ok interesting
20:16	justin_smith	there is the typical cloud advantage of seamless scaling etc.
20:16	justin_smith	also for our app that lets us cache dynamically resized images, and serve them all (so only one server needs to resize one time, regardless of instance count / restart on the cloud)
20:17	justin_smith	ie. a request asks for a particular image size, that gets made once and served multiple times
20:18	akurilin	That's as lot of people dropping.
20:19	akurilin	I was going to say is that I'm going to have to read up on the java io model, since I keep being redirected to the classpath all the time and I'm not nearly as familiar with it as I should be.
20:21	technomancy	clojure.java.io/resource will just get you an input-stream you can read from without having to care whether it's from a dir or in a jar
20:50	ToBeReplaced	i feel like i write (loop [] (when-not (.isInterrupted (Thread/currentThread)) ... (recur))) a lot
20:50	ToBeReplaced	when people have services that run forever... how do they wrap it up in development mode for start/stop? is the above standard?
20:53	chord	callen i'm on chapter 13 of learn you a haskell
20:53	chord	thats right i'm almost done
20:53	chord	you thought that I would fail to finish
20:54	chord	callen: so after i'm finished I need you to have that clojure book done so I can start reading it
20:54	chord	callen are you even there?
20:54	chord	wtf is callen doing
20:56	hyPiRion	reading that clojure book maybe
20:57	mdeboard	You guys have a weird bromance
20:57	mdeboard	chord/callen
20:59	dobry-den	ToBeReplaced: dang, should i be doing that? i just loop and have it return a channel
21:00	sandbags	I hope this question will make sense: when you're talking to a clojure nrepl (e.g. using Vim fireplace) is there some way of diverting it's stdin & stdout to the nrepl console session?
21:00	ToBeReplaced	dobry-den: idk how I would do it all with core.async -- good point
21:01	ToBeReplaced	if i have a system that needs to launch a few dedicated threads, i usually create something like a "start" and "stop" fn that kick them off in futures
21:01	justin_smith	sandbags: maybe you could bind some var to out in the repl (that representing the output being used in the repl) then pass it in so it can be explicilty bind out in the code that is not yet printing to the right place
21:02	justin_smith	I have been thinking about how this could be fixed as well. It happens when you make new threads.
21:02	justin_smith	is it because out is thread local so you need to pass it in to other threads if you want it shared?
21:02	ToBeReplaced	dobry-den: if they are loops inside of core.async go blocks... i have no idea what i would do to signal "stop doing things"... i guess you would have them read off a poison channel on each iteration?
21:02	chord	mdeboard you know where callen is?
21:03	indigo	He's probably working; he has a job, you know :P
21:03	sandbags	justin_smith: i'm not really sure... this is all a bit above me at the moment and i am trying to muddle my way through it
21:03	sandbags	i've been trying to read the code of nrepl
21:03	sandbags	but not making much useful headway
21:03	justin_smith	hmm
21:04	justin_smith	sandbags: it is in things happening in threads that output goes to the wrong place, right?
21:05	sandbags	justin_smith: if you execute the clojure.main/repl function from vim fireplace you hang Vim because, i presume, the nrepl attempting to execute the repl function is hung waiting for input that will never come
21:05	justin_smith	hmm
21:05	sandbags	justin_smith: so i am wondering how i can have that nrepl process that is evaluating the code wire it's stdin & stdout to something you can interact with
21:05	justin_smith	yeah, I don't know, I haven't used fireplace at all
21:05	sandbags	justin_smith: fireplace is just talking to nrepl
21:06	sandbags	using the "op" "eval" "code" "(clojure code)" protocol
21:06	justin_smith	the out and in vars always refer to the currently default out and in ports
21:06	sandbags	(at least, so far as i can tell that's all its doing)
21:06	justin_smith	so if you pass those in, you should be able to access them in your code
21:07	sandbags	well... pass in from where would be the issue
21:07	chord	indigo: can you tell callen to quit his job
21:07	sandbags	they would need to be prewired to something running in that local nrepl process
21:07	indigo	I sure can. I won't, though, because I'm sure he enjoys it :)
21:09	dobry-den	ToBeReplaced: yeah i don't know how you'd handle a tight loop
21:10	sandbags	interesting, it looks like nrepl uses clojure.main/repl under the hood
21:10	sandbags	i'm not sure it helps me but interesting anyway :)
21:10	dobry-den	although having a start and stop fn translates directly to having a start and stop channel that sit in the process in their own blocks waiting for something to come out of their channel
21:12	ToBeReplaced	dobry-den: is there an equivalent of "offer" and "poll" in async?
21:13	justin_smith	ToBeReplaced: alts! is kind of like poll
21:13	justin_smith	serves the first channel to return a value out of varargs channels
21:14	ToBeReplaced	justin_smith: i see, with :default
21:15	ToBeReplaced	so yeah... i guess if you want to start/stop consumers/producers you have them alts! for poison?
21:15	justin_smith	I think that is the pattern. I am still learning how to use core.async myself
21:16	chord	indigo: you going to help with starcraft clone written in clojure
21:16	justin_smith	well for starting you could have a channel with a go block looping on it, and for stopping it you could close that channel
21:16	dobry-den	taking/putting on an unbuffered channel also blocks.
21:17	indigo	chord: Nah, I have better things to do... like fixing up clauth
21:17	justin_smith	s/starting/triggering
21:17	indigo	Anyway I'm too noob at Clojure to even consider a starcraft clone
21:17	film42424	this be some cool stuff: http://blog.getprismatic.com/blog/2013/4/29/faster-better-dom-manipulation-with-dommy-and-clojurescript?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
21:17	chord	WTF GO LEARN CLOJURE
21:17	indigo	chord: I know, right?
21:18	film42424	Thought it was relevant for discussion
21:18	chord	wtf you doing in this channel if you're not even learning
21:18	indigo	I never said I wasn't learning ;)
21:18	chord	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiCy5igO9-I&feature=player_embedded#t=0
21:19	ToBeReplaced	justin_smith: dobry-den: thinking more, it's definitely all about the channels... if you want to stop consuming, just close it off at the producer, and stop trying to take when you read nil
21:19	ToBeReplaced	or if you are producing elsewhere, close that channel
21:20	justin_smith	ToBeReplaced: afaik if you try to read a closed channel in a go block, that will kill the go block
21:20	justin_smith	you could test that though
21:20	film42424	chord: that's insane!
21:21	ToBeReplaced	justin_smith: you just read nil iirc
21:23	chord	so film4242 you gonna make starcraft clone with clojure?
21:23	justin_smith	ToBeReplaced: oh, you are right, I just tested it
21:24	justin_smith	so I should be testing if I read nil from the channel, and bail when I do
21:25	ToBeReplaced	or just (when-let [value (<! channel)] ...)
21:25	dobry-den	the nil return is what enables semantics like a when-let in a loop
21:25	dobry-den	yeah
21:29	dobry-den	ToBeReplaced: if you need inspiration, rob pike's Go Concurrency Patterns talk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6kdp27TYZs) has some cool arrangements
21:30	ToBeReplaced	whoaaaaa major commit to async yesterday by rhickey -- pubsub, stream functions, etc
21:33	justin_smith	cool
21:34	`cbp	what's with this clojure starcraft clone? :-o
21:34	chord	Haskell > Go > Clojure
21:35	`cbp	flamebait!
21:35	indigo	`cbp: He's trolled #ruby, #python, and #haskell
21:35	chord	`cbp: why are you against clojure starcraft clone
21:35	chord	indigo you making stuff up
21:36	indigo	chord: Nono, I have logs
21:36	chord	I call bullshit
21:36	indigo	Also you're on their banlists :\
21:36	chord	how can you see the banlists liar
21:36	indigo	You go /bans
21:36	chord	nothing happened in this channel
21:36	chord	nice lie
21:37	film42424	Could someone look at some code for me and tell how I can write it better?
21:37	justin_smith	I can try
21:38	ddellacosta	film42424: give us a refheap
21:38	`cbp	film42424: sure in my limited capacity
21:38	film42424	https://github.com/film42/list-em-with-clojure/blob/master/src/list_em/core.clj
21:38	danielszmulewicz	anybody knows how to display the jetty log when working in emacs with nrepl
21:39	mtp	why does it feel like i'm reading java?
21:39	film42424	cause you kinda are :/
21:39	film42424	I'm learning though
21:39	mtp	okay
21:40	mtp	i would probably make list-dir build up a tree as it recurs, and try to eliminate the global
21:40	mtp	but i don't know clojure well enough to say much more than that
21:40	ddellacosta	film42424: I don't think it's so bad. But have you taken a look at https://github.com/Raynes/fs ?
21:40	film42424	ddellacosta: That's a great find!
21:41	ddellacosta	film42424: may save you a bit of trouble. ;-)
21:41	chord	who here wants to join starcraft clone clojure project
21:41	film42424	mtp: I totally agree.. just trying to make it work first.. but that's what i'm gonna do next
21:42	hyPiRion	film42424: yeah, if you're able to do as mtp said, you're good code-wise
21:42	lgs32a	has anyone figured out already why the new merge in core.async only takes two channels?
21:42	film42424	thanks :)
21:42	justin_smith	film42424: if you made the master-list a set rather than vec, you would pre-empt the eventuality of adding the same file to it twice.
21:43	justin_smith	but then it would be unordered
21:43	film42424	good thinking.. i think im gonna work on not overwriting a global var tho
21:43	hyPiRion	justin_smith: but that would never happen
21:43	film42424	you guys are awesome though!
21:43	film42424	srs thank you :)
21:44	justin_smith	hyPiRion: cyclical symlinked dirs
21:44	justin_smith	which would also make a stack overflow with the code as is
21:44	hyPiRion	if you are sane
21:44	film42424	I wonder how java.io.File handles sym links
21:46	justin_smith	film42424: easy enough to test in the repl, no?
21:46	justin_smith	I think this may be related to the .cannonicalPath method
21:47	film42424	ill check in a min.. first imma drop in this fs lib
21:47	justin_smith	* .getCanonicalPath
21:47	hyPiRion	film42424: This is what we do in Leiningen: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/master/leiningen-core/src/leiningen/core/utils.clj#L31-L39
21:48	justin_smith	yeah, (.getCanonicalPath (java.io.File. "symlink")) returns "/path/to/original"
21:48	film42424	ahhh
21:48	hyPiRion	we generate the canonical file and check if it's equal to the absolute file
22:19	rlb	Is it possible to ask lein to run arbitrary commands before or after a given stage via the project file?
22:21	TimMc	rlb: You can add hooks and middleware.
22:21	TimMc	It's not via the project file, precisely.
22:21	akurilin	Is there a list of macros out there that implicitly use a do?
22:22	akurilin	There's let, fn, anything else major?
22:22	TimMc	akurilin: The only things that can implicitly use a do are special forms, not macros.
22:22	TimMc	(So one could easily exhaustively search them.)
22:23	TimMc	let* and fn* are the ones that come to mind
22:23	rlb	TimMc: ok, thanks -- I'm thinking of one-off bits -- say for example, that I need to compile a c file before the compile stage for clojurec so that I can extract the platform's errno symbols.
22:23	rlb	TimMc: can the hooks/middleware be local to the project?
22:24	justin_smith	akurilin: when
22:24	justin_smith	akurilin: binding
22:25	justin_smith	future
22:25	justin_smith	I think there are many
22:25	TimMc	akurilin: loop
22:26	TimMc	try
22:26	akurilin	TimMc, so to make sure I grok this better, special forms are basic language logic building blocks that are then used by functions/macros to make interesting stuff that'd not be possible otherwise?
22:26	amalloy	TimMc: surely you mean loop, not loop, if you're grouping it with let and fn*
22:27	chord	i demand starcraft clone
22:27	TimMc	Oh yes, loop*
22:29	amalloy	but really i'd categorize the macros themselves as "implicitly" adding a do around your code; to say only special forms can do so is probably accurate but not very useful
22:29	TimMc	amalloy: Thanks, I didn't know that delegated as well. I suppose it would, what with the destructuring.
22:29	TimMc	amalloy: I am technically correct!
22:29	TimMc	(The best kind of correct.)
22:30	OtherRaven	Is there a way to require/use java objects such that they don't have to be qualified?
22:31	OtherRaven	Like, with lwjgl, it gets annoying to always have to do GL11 or GL15 or what have you before each command
22:32	ToBeReplaced	OtherRaven: (import 'java.util.UUID) (UUID/randomUUID)
22:33	OtherRaven	ToBeReplaced: Right, is there any way to do it without having to put UUID/ in front of it though?
22:33	ToBeReplaced	OtherRaven: ah, not that i know of, but don't take that to mean not possible
22:34	TimMc	akurilin: Homework project: Programmatically find all macros in clojure.core that have a "body" section (a do form).
22:34	akurilin	amalloy, so as a language user my options for running multiple side-effects are special forms that explicitly claim to support that and the macros built on top of them?
22:34	amalloy	and the functions built on top of them, and...really any combination of such things
22:35	akurilin	amalloy, but the bottom building block is always a special form supporting that behavior, right?
22:35	asteve	party people, how do you serve static files through compojure?
22:35	asteve	like js files?
22:35	amalloy	akurilin: that describes every feature of the entire language
22:35	akurilin	amalloy, :)
22:35	akurilin	TimMc, sounds fun, will do
22:35	OtherRaven	ToBeReplaced: blargh... do you know if there's any way to easily check which of a group of java classes has a given static method?
22:35	amalloy	but it's not like you need the special forms to add an explicit do; you could do it with a form of fn that doesn't have multiple body-exprs
22:35	clojurebot	Pardon?
22:36	ToBeReplaced	OtherRaven: clojure.reflect, maybe... wouldn't know the command off hand
22:36	amalloy	((fn [ignore these things]) (print 1) (print 2) (print 3)), for example, akurilin
22:37	OtherRaven	ToBeReplaced: thanks, I'll have to look into that
22:40	akurilin	amalloy, what exactly does that expression achieve?
22:40	akurilin	Not sure I'm following along.
22:41	amalloy	akurilin: it calls print 3 times, without using any implicit do
22:41	amalloy	by creating a useless three-arg lambda to take the "values" of three print expressions, which are then evaluated in order
22:42	akurilin	amalloy, oh I follow now, got it.
22:42	amalloy	you can even curry it if you don't like depending on multi-argument functions, since that sounds a little bit like an implicit do in the function-call part of the compiler
22:42	amalloy	((fn [_] ((fn [_] (print 3)) (print 2))) (print 1))
22:49	akurilin	Anybody here using drawbridge with basic HTTP auth in production?
22:49	mtp	what is production?
22:50	mtp	(i mean this in an existential sense)
22:50	technomancy	it's like when a factory runs its assembly line
22:51	brehaut	technomancy: is this where hammers come from?
22:51	mtp	no, hammers come from php users
22:51	brehaut	or spice racks?
22:51	brehaut	i never can remember
22:51	technomancy	brehaut: all products
22:51	technomancy	including dot products
22:58	lynaghk	Any nice way to get clojure.pprint to print out hashmaps with the keys alphabetized?
22:58	akurilin	You guys.
22:59	mtp	try using a sorted data structure instead?
22:59	mtp	i'm sure there's a good crit-bit tree library for clojure
22:59	mtp	<;3
23:23	TEttinger	lynaghk: ##(clojure.pprint/pprint (into (sorted-map) {:b "bar" :c "attack" :a "alphabet"}))
23:23	lazybot	⇒ {:a "alphabet", :b "bar", :c "attack"} nil
23:28	chord	clojure starcraft clone
23:29	chord	come on guys
23:29	chord	lets do it
23:30	SegFaultAX	chord: Dude, are you still going on about that.
23:30	chord	I never give up
23:31	chord	you give up too early thats why you're failing college
23:31	akurilin	If I wanted to swap two versions of my ring app on the same box without service interruption, would nginx's upstream module be one tool I could use?
23:34	xeqi	akurilin: yes. thats what clojars uses
23:34	akurilin	xeqi, something like: start new version, once it's done update upstream directive, reload nginx, stop old version?
23:35	akurilin	sounds a bit tricky to automate with CM, but probably doable.
23:41	SegFaultAX	akurilin: Nah, it's a breeze.
23:44	akurilin	SegFaultAX, is there anything specific you can wait for to determine when the app has successfully booted?
23:44	akurilin	SegFaultAX, port availability?
23:45	akurilin	I think that's the one thing ansible gives you.
23:45	SegFaultAX	akurilin: Base it on whatever criteria makes sense for your application.
23:52	marcopolo2	chord: Glad to see you are still going for the clojure game! :)
23:52	chord	marcopolo2: you going to help?
23:52	marcopolo2	chord: can't :/
23:53	marcopolo2	chord: doing it in cljs or clj?
23:54	chord	you gonno help?
23:57	marcopolo2	just wonderin'