#clojure – 2013-04-27

2013-04-27

00:00	andyfingerhut	So what are you comparing the 288 msec Clojure run time against?
00:00	echo-area	andyfingerhut: http://pastebin.com/uxPNyFwg
00:00	echo-area	this
00:01	echo-area	(time (p1)) against the timed iteration
00:01	echo-area	As I don't see much difference in the assemble code, I can't explain the slowness here
00:02	andyfingerhut	I see 0.07user time. That is not 1/100 of 288 msec, is it?
00:02	echo-area	It's 288 msec vs 10 msec
00:02	andyfingerhut	sorry, I meant 10x.
00:03	echo-area	~28.8x, IMO
00:03	clojurebot	Excuse me?
00:03	andyfingerhut	With the Java program you can start and finish a JVM in 10 msec?
00:03	amalloy	andyfingerhut: for a JVM that just starts up, does nothing, and then closes, that's pretty reasonable
00:03	echo-area	No, please see the java program below. 10826513 nanoseconds is ~11 msec
00:04	echo-area	and it is the time of the whole iteration, not the java process
00:04	andyfingerhut	Sorry, finally catching up here.
00:06	echo-area	Except the bigger minor pagefaults in the clojure run, I don't see anything else slowing down it. Do you?
00:06	echo-area	And how would you explain it?
00:06	echo-area	*bigger number of
00:13	echo-area	Or could it be that the VM is loading code?
00:25	andyfingerhut	I think you may be partly seeing a different JIT warmup time for the two bits of code. Try increasing N by a factor of 10 in the two cases and compare Java-to-java and Clojure-to-Clojure times before and after that change.
00:28	echo-area	The Clojure version becomes ~2x slower and the Java version ~5x slower. What does this imply?
00:30	andyfingerhut	Well, the Clojure is getting better relative to the Java performance, for one :-)
00:31	andyfingerhut	Exactly why that is happening I don't know off hand, but the two version of the code could be having JIT kick in at a different point in time, perhaps.
00:32	andyfingerhut	The criterium library is good for ensuring that code is "warmed up" and JIT should have completed, before it starts making any measurements that it reports.
00:34	echo-area	Looking at it right now, thanks
00:37	andyfingerhut	You might also see something interesting if you try (dotimes [j 10] (time (p1)))
00:44	mindbender1	what's the idiomatic way of throwing error in cljs
00:46	echo-area	andyfingerhut: `criterium' reported the same level of execution time. I'll look into it to seek for an explaination. Thanks.
01:28	n_b	people who write parsers with regular expressions :(
01:28	n_b	Ack, wrong window.
01:29	amalloy	there's no window in which it's wrong to point out that regexes don't parse
01:31	n_b	In that case I'd also like to point out the MediaWiki people have done an admirable job on making knowledge easier to share, but their markup format is insane.
01:40	callen	nothing like playing tech support for random entrepeneurs on Facebook.
02:26	isson0926	hello. i have a question. (i am not good to speak english)
02:28	isson0926	haskell's recursive function(not tail recursion) do not occur stack overflow. but common lisp do. does clojure do stack overflow?
02:30	brainproxy	isson0926: owing to the way the jvm works, clojure can't automatically optimize in the way that haskell does
02:31	isson0926	thanks . brainproxy :-)
02:31	amalloy	haskell's functions can stackoverflow too
02:31	brainproxy	however, clojure provides some facilities so you can have recursive calls that don't blow the stack
02:31	brainproxy	e.g. loop and recur
02:32	brainproxy	isson0926: http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/loop
02:32	brainproxy	http://clojure.org/special_forms#recur
02:33	isson0926	good doc. thanks brainproxy.
02:33	isson0926	amalloy , when haskell's functons can stackoverlow?
02:35	amalloy	$heval foldr (+) 0 [1..1000000]
02:35	lazybot	⇒ *Exception: stack overflow
02:36	amalloy	strict and non-strict languages exhibit stack overflows in different scenarios, but if you're using a stack to represent things, and it's not infinite, you can always write code to make it run out
02:36	isson0926	that's righit. so it comes strict version foldr.
02:37	isson0926	thanks amally.
02:40	amalloy	if you're interested in exploring languages without a stack, you might take a look at some papers about using only tail-calls in scheme with CPS
02:45	isson0926	i want native compiler, i want purity functional language (like haskell, as i know clojure) , i like lisp syntax. generating fast running code like common lisp .
02:45	adu	amalloy: I <3 tail-calls
02:45	adu	isson0926: then you might try SBCL
02:45	isson0926	but as i know , sheme is slow (but common lisp is fast). is write?
02:45	isson0926	is right?
02:45	adu	SBCL beats some other languages on the computer language shootout
02:47	isson0926	but sbcl and common lisp do not abstract list like clojure, haskell, it represent points (like cons..)
02:47	isson0926	points -> pointers
02:47	isson0926	i hate it.
02:49	adu	isson0926: for example, in http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/benchmark.php?test=spectralnorm&lang=all&data=u64q
02:49	adu	SBCL is faster than Java, C#, and Haskell
02:50	Raynes	Combined!
02:50	Raynes	In quicksand!
02:52	isson0926	good. but i cannot understand the result. i know common lisp using hint for type inference. but it is high abstraction language. surprise result.
02:53	isson0926	surprise -> surprising result.
03:15	corpsan	i was in here earlier wondering about calling arbitrary code from within datomic transaction functions. suppose i wanna use some random clojure library inside my transaction functions. i don't want to have to "install" those functions (in the parlance of http://docs.datomic.com/database-functions.html) by sending transactions which store the code. i just wanna dump the requisite .jar on the transactor class path or something.
03:15	corpsan	possible?
06:25	nmadan	if I have an int-array, is the nth function still going to be O(n)?
06:27	morphling	nmadan: nth is O(1) for arrays
08:10	jjttjj	anyone know of any good examples/source code of using agents to process message queues? (besides the one in Clojure Programming)
08:12	silasdavis	how can I get the fully qualified symbol for '+'
08:12	jjttjj	,`+
08:12	clojurebot	clojure.core/+
08:12	silasdavis	oh of course, thanks
08:12	jjttjj	no prob
08:31	varadharajan	I'm wondering what i missing in this code (#(#{ %1 %2}) 1 2) . I'm expecting it to give a set #{1 2}. I was able to get an equivalent version of it with (#(hash-set %1 %2) 1 2) . But not sure why the first one did not work.
08:33	Bronsa	varadharajan: you're calling the set, not only creating it
08:34	Bronsa	((fn [x y] (hash-set x y)) 1 2) vs ((fn [x y ] (#{x y})) 1 2)
08:37	varadharajan	Bronsa: Got it. Thanks :)
08:40	gfredericks	that's a limitation of the #() syntax -- you can't give a literal to return, you have to call something
08:41	Bronsa	well
08:42	Bronsa	you can still use the clojure.core functions
08:42	Bronsa	,(map hash-set [1 2 3] [2 3 4])
08:42	clojurebot	(#{1 2} #{2 3} #{3 4})
08:43	varadharajan	gfredericks: Yeah. I was not aware of that limitation and hence messed it up
08:43	gfredericks	it seems to trip people up quite commonly
08:43	Bronsa	I would not call it a "limitation" though
08:43	gfredericks	no?
08:43	clojurebot	no is tufflax: there was a question somewhere in there, the answer
08:44	Bronsa	gfredericks: it's how #() works
08:44	Bronsa	how could it work otherwise?
08:44	Bronsa	special-casing on collection literals?
08:44	gfredericks	no, you're right that there's no obvious way
08:45	gfredericks	but if there _were_, there'd be no reason not to add it
08:45	gfredericks	I think "limitation" is a word most people would be comfortable with there
08:45	gfredericks	it's not inherent in the design of #() that you shouldn't be able to do that, there's just no obvious simple way to make it possible
08:46	gfredericks	I certainly don't mean to imply that #() is poorly designed or should be changed
08:46	Bronsa	well. actually since calling a collection literal as a function with no arguments throws an exception, #(coll-literal) could be expanded automatically to #(do coll-literal)
08:46	gfredericks	true
08:46	Bronsa	actually, every literal probably
08:46	gfredericks	I wouldn't want that, but it does sound like it would work
08:54	Glenjamin	,(#(-> {:a %}) 1)
08:54	clojurebot	{:a 1}
08:54	Glenjamin	misusing -> a bit, but keeps it fairly readable
09:16	gfredericks	that's clever
09:16	gfredericks	I wonder if the swearjure guys know about that
09:18	gfredericks	we were doing nastier stuff to get the same effect
09:18	hyPiRion	Glenjamin: it's the same as using "do", isn't it
09:18	hyPiRion	,(#(do {:a %}) 1)
09:18	clojurebot	{:a 1}
09:18	Glenjamin	yeah, but it looks a tad nicer imo
09:18	Glenjamin	:D
09:18	gfredericks	but do is not allowed in swearjure
09:18	hyPiRion	gfredericks: this is true
09:19	gfredericks	clojurebot: swearjure is <reply> there is no do
09:19	clojurebot	Ik begrijp
09:19	hyPiRion	We tend to do ##(#([{:+ %}](+)) 10) instead
09:19	lazybot	⇒ {:+ 10}
09:19	gfredericks	which is great for making swearjure look more complicated
09:19	hyPiRion	heh
09:19	silasdavis	damn clojure has some unhelpful errors for beginners. example: writing (:require optic.config.database :as db) instead of (:require [optic.config.database :as db]) throws a ClassCastException java.lang.Boolean cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Symbol clojure.core/alias (core.clj:3870)
09:20	gfredericks	silasdavis: sure does
09:20	Glenjamin	the errors from the ns form are very cryptic
09:20	silasdavis	can anyone explain why that lead to cast...
09:20	gfredericks	I have no idea where a boolean would have come from
09:21	gfredericks	my repl gives the same error
09:21	Glenjamin	the one i get often is when i go from :refer [something] to :as something, i often accidentally do :as [something]
09:21	jjttjj	I think
09:21	silasdavis	by comparison haskell has some pretty helpful errors a lot of the time... I suppose it's a mixture of macros and java poking through
09:21	jjttjj	woops
09:21	gfredericks	silasdavis: well the ns macro could be enhanced to have error checking with nice messages
09:22	silasdavis	that'd be nice
09:23	silasdavis	these little data structure based mini-languages can be a bugger to remember
09:24	gfredericks	ns is probably the worst combination of design and high-profile-ness
09:24	gfredericks	it is much hated but expensive to change
09:25	Glenjamin	http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-272
09:25	Glenjamin	a fairly old and rather vague issue :D
09:25	gfredericks	haha it's over 3 years old
09:26	gfredericks	I guess require got updated recently
09:26	gfredericks	but certainly not an overhaul
09:29	silasdavis	perhaps it could be superseded by a differently named macro
09:29	silasdavis	or perhaps you could explicitly include something that overrode it
09:29	silasdavis	to not break backward compatibility
09:30	silasdavis	I'm using a migration library that by default stores migrations in the namespace 'lobos.migrations'. It feels a bit wrong to have my file in/a/different/directory not have the corresponding ns to its location
09:31	silasdavis	but perhaps it's alright in this case
09:31	borkdude	silasdavis lobos requires migrations to be in lobos.migrations, so you need a lobos dir in your src dir
09:32	borkdude	does someone have a good example of usage of noir validation outside a noir project, so with lib-noir?
09:32	silasdavis	borkdude, I could override the default
09:32	borkdude	silasdavis you probably can
09:32	silasdavis	the problem with having a lobos directory is it would sit outside my app root namespace, which feels wrong since all my other db and config is there
09:33	silasdavis	also it's not lobos' migrations, it's this app's
09:33	silasdavis	borkdude, try lein new luminus myapp
09:33	silasdavis	I think it has some noir validation in it
09:34	borkdude	silasdavis yes, it feels wrong to me to
09:34	borkdude	silasdavis will try, thanks
09:35	borkdude	silasdavis grep -R 'vali' . returns nothing
09:36	Glenjamin	Thus, to use another namespace you must change the lobos.migration/migrations-namespace dynamic variable
09:37	Glenjamin	plet
09:37	silasdavis	borkdude, sorry try lein new luminus myapp +site
09:37	Glenjamin	whoops, that was supposed to be a find :)
09:37	silasdavis	then you should find some in auth.clj
09:37	Glenjamin	is there a public log of this channel somewhere?
09:38	silasdavis	Glenjamin, yeah.. I'm not the first: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10986293/how-to-set-a-dynamic-var-in-another-namespace
09:39	borkdude	silasdavis you're right, thanks, now I find a lot of of references
09:44	innotune	hey, I have a problem with an OOM Error that occurs to me, but not to others (http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16194841/clojure-lazy-sequences-in-math-combinatorics) can somebody help me in finding reasons why I get this error?
09:48	Glenjamin	what's the collective term for people who do clojure?
09:48	Glenjamin	clojurist, clojurian, clojurer?
09:50	borkdude	silasdavis do I need wrap-validation from noir if I want to use validation?
09:51	borkdude	silasdavis I can't find it in the example, so I assume not
09:53	Glenjamin	borkdude: i suspect you do, i think it uses a dynamically bound variable
09:53	silasdavis	borkdude, I think you do, it's called within noir.util.middleware/app-handler
09:53	silasdavis	which I think luminus uses by default
09:53	borkdude	silasdavis ah no problem then, I use that one already..
09:53	borkdude	Glenjamin thanks
10:04	borkdude	hmm, why is this true? https://www.refheap.com/paste/14006
10:05	borkdude	got it, name should be :name
10:06	borkdude	yay, validation works now
10:37	Jernau	Hi everyone, I have a real beginners question here... I'm trying to write a function that takes a vector of strings and returns a vector of numbers.
10:38	Jernau	When I try: (map read-string ["2" "4"]) it gives me the result I expected: (2 4).
10:38	Jernau	However, when I try to define a function using the same code: (defn strings-to-numbers [strings] map read-string strings) (strings-to-numbers ["2" "4"])
10:38	Jernau	I get the result ["2" "4"] as though it hasn't applied read-string at all. Which basic concept am I missing here?
10:39	cap10morgan	Jernau: you want (defn strings-to-numbers [strings] (map read-string strings))
10:39	cap10morgan	you need to call the map function inside your function
10:40	cap10morgan	putting a something in "function position" (i.e. the beginning of a list) does that
10:41	Jernau	okay, thanks cap10!
10:41	Jernau	Knew it was basic :)
10:42	cap10morgan	Jernau: np, happy Clojuring!
10:53	gfredericks	,(-> (a b c) quote reverse)
10:53	clojurebot	(c b a)
10:54	pandeiro	anybody know the way to invoke `lein run` so that my "platform encoding" is UTF-8?
10:55	gfredericks	is that a jvm option?
10:55	pandeiro	gfredericks: not sure, but non-ascii filenames are getting garbled by ring-multipart-params
10:56	pandeiro	what i tracked down on stackoverflow so far is that commons-fileupload looks for something called the platform encoding
10:56	gfredericks	oh; I'm not familiar enough with the issues involved to guess
10:56	pandeiro	me neither
10:56	gfredericks	if it turns out to be a jvm opt, you can set those in the project.clj
10:58	maio	any native english speaker willing to do quick grammar check of my Clojure related blogpost please? :) https://gist.github.com/maio/2fb5e49353b28925cea5
11:00	pandeiro	"we chose Heroku"
11:00	pandeiro	^ maio
11:01	gfredericks	maio: curious what your native language is
11:01	pandeiro	"their Git repository"... "Heroku then builds"
11:01	pandeiro	"a custom build script"
11:02	gfredericks	somewhere on the internets or in a book there was a listing of english grammar mistakes categorized by native language; terribly interesting
11:02	pandeiro	maio: dunno if it matters to you, the rest are mostly missing articles like the above... "the compass gem"...
11:02	maio	gfredericks: czech / slovak :)
11:03	maio	thank you guys :)
11:03	pandeiro	yes when i do my bad russian/slovak imitation the first thing that goes are the articles :)
11:03	maio	pandeiro: sure - I would like to learn how to write correctly so any correction will help :)
11:03	gfredericks	maio: "To make build process[es] more ..."
11:04	gfredericks	"...that you use [the] same versions..."
11:04	gfredericks	probably replace "one" with "you" in the previous sentence
11:04	gfredericks	"will create [an] example Gemfile"
11:05	gfredericks	"requires [the] compass gem"
11:05	gfredericks	"you will find that [the] build fails"
11:06	gfredericks	"[the] presence of [the] Gemfile", "[The] fix is"
11:07	gfredericks	it's like clojure with parens -- just sprinkle a few articles around the sentences :)
11:08	pandeiro	article usage varies a lot from language to language.. in the Brazilian vernacular you use the definite article before everyone's name when referring to them in the third person, which sounds so bizarre in English
11:08	gfredericks	spanish has a dialect with that I think
11:08	pandeiro	and English not putting articles before abstract nouns is also bizarre to speakers of other languages
11:09	gfredericks	I liked the list of mistakes categorized by native language because it gives a quick appreciation for the great variety of language characteristics, but put in terms that are natural to an english speaker
11:10	pandeiro	gfredericks: know the link? that would be very useful for me
11:10	gfredericks	pandeiro: at this point I'm probably no better at googling it than you are
11:10	gfredericks	I'm 80% sure this was a linguistics textbook though
11:11	pandeiro	yeah not pulling up anything specific here
11:12	gfredericks	I wonder how infeasible it would be to compile the n^2 sized list of all combinations of native/foreign language
11:14	maio	thanks a lot for the check. I really appreciate it :) if you guys don't mind I mentioned you at the end of the post :)
11:14	maio	<gfredericks> probably replace "one" with "you" in the previous sentence
11:15	maio	"one use the same" or "one uses the same"? :)
11:15	pandeiro	latter
11:15	gfredericks	huh? I was recommending changing "one" to "you" not the other way around
11:17	pandeiro	generally "one" just wants to stay consistent so "you" don't confuse the reader
11:17	gfredericks	"one" isn't incorrect the way you had it, but it's quite formal and didn't match the "you" of the next sentences
11:17	gfredericks	I would not expect to see "one" used in a technical tutorial
11:18	maio	I see. fixed :)
11:18	gfredericks	at least not something aimed at english speakers. I have no idea about the optimal way to communicate in english between non-native speakers :)
11:20	maio	ouch. now comes the fun part - I have to make it render properly at blogger :) http://blog.maio.cz/2013/04/heroku-build-css-using-compasssass-for.html
11:22	gfredericks	lol; your attribution sentence should be "for [the] grammar check"
11:22	arkh	I have a lazy-seq I'd like to make but I'm running up against a wall when trying to make it :/
11:23	arkh	,(let [y [{:a "a" :b "b"}]] (into [] [y]))
11:23	clojurebot	[[{:a "a", :b "b"}]]
11:23	arkh	,(let [y [{:a "a" :b "b"}]] (into (into [] [y]) [y]))
11:23	clojurebot	[[{:a "a", :b "b"}] [{:a "a", :b "b"}]]
11:24	arkh	(let [y [{:a "a" :b "b"}]] (into (into (into [] [y]) [y]) [y]))
11:24	arkh	,(let [y [{:a "a" :b "b"}]] (into (into (into [] [y]) [y]) [y]))
11:24	clojurebot	[[{:a "a", :b "b"}] [{:a "a", :b "b"}] [{:a "a", :b "b"}]]
11:24	arkh	That's the cycle I'd like it to follow
11:27	dnolen	no more js* in core.cljs http://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/commit/7a89d636fb9426754248d54ac35d01bcd986eebd
11:28	dnolen	,(doc repeat)
11:28	clojurebot	"([x] [n x]); Returns a lazy (infinite!, or length n if supplied) sequence of xs."
11:29	dnolen	,(take 3 (map #(repeat % {:a "a" :b "b"}) (rest (range))))
11:29	clojurebot	(({:a "a", :b "b"}) ({:a "a", :b "b"} {:a "a", :b "b"}) ({:a "a", :b "b"} {:a "a", :b "b"} {:a "a", :b "b"}))
11:29	pandeiro	dnolen: that's sad, what is the reasoning?
11:29	pandeiro	(about js*)
11:30	dnolen	pandeiro: js* is and alway was an implementation detail, js* isn't likely to go anywhere because of interop reasons but there's no reason for it pollute core.cljs
11:30	pandeiro	i had hacked up a way to eval pure js via the cljs browser repl instead of trying to set up swank js -- will i still be able to do that somehow?
11:31	pandeiro	it's moved to another ns?
11:31	gfredericks	oh so it's still available for use (unofficially), but just not used by cljs itself?
11:31	dnolen	pandeiro: no js* is still available, the only thing is that core.cljs just doesn't refer to it directly anymore.
11:31	dnolen	gfredericks: it is used but only via macros.
11:31	pandeiro	ah ok great
11:33	dnolen	arkh: ^ not sure if have lazy seqs instead of vecs works for you
11:33	gfredericks	is my lib still the only option for cljs numerics? I don't know that anybody uses it and it's still surprising nothing else has popped up
11:34	gfredericks	I guess doubles are sufficient 99% of the time
11:34	dnolen	gfredericks: I think people just have low expections on numerics when targeting JS
11:35	arkh	dnolen: it's tricky because the consumer of the lazy-seq is a datomic transact - I'd like to insert an arbitrary amount of test data as datoms
11:35	arkh	dnolen: tricky part being it must be vector of a map in a vector
11:36	kawas44	hello les gens
11:36	dnolen	,(take 3 (map #(into [] (repeat % {:a "a" :b "b"})) (rest (range))))
11:36	clojurebot	([{:a "a", :b "b"}] [{:a "a", :b "b"} {:a "a", :b "b"}] [{:a "a", :b "b"} {:a "a", :b "b"} {:a "a", :b "b"}])
11:36	dnolen	arkh: ^
11:36	arkh	dnolen: that's close! :)
11:38	arkh	it needs to be [ [{:foo nil}] [{:foo nil}] [{:foo nil}] ]
11:39	arkh	I'm close to either finishing it w/ lazy seq or, if not, then I'
11:39	arkh	I'll try repeat / map / something like you did
11:39	dnolen	,(into [] (take 3 (map #(into [] (repeat % {:foo nil})) (rest (range)))))
11:39	clojurebot	[[{:foo nil}] [{:foo nil} {:foo nil}] [{:foo nil} {:foo nil} {:foo nil}]]
11:39	dnolen	arkh: ^ or something else?
11:40	arkh	dnolen: unfortunately, slightly different than that
11:42	arkh	,(vec (repeat 3 {:foo nil}))
11:42	clojurebot	[{:foo nil} {:foo nil} {:foo nil}]
11:42	arkh	... that, but lazy
11:42	arkh	er
11:43	arkh	,(vec (repeat 3 [{:foo nil}]))
11:43	clojurebot	[[{:foo nil}] [{:foo nil}] [{:foo nil}]]
11:43	arkh	sorry, _that_, but lazy
11:44	pepijndevos	vectors arn't lazy right...
11:44	arkh	pepijndevos: right
11:44	pepijndevos	so how can it be lazy?
11:45	pepijndevos	( just dropped in, did I miss something important?)
11:45	arkh	I was just showing what I'm shooting for as an example of the end result
11:45	mynomoto	Glenjamin: public log: http://clojure-log.n01se.net/
11:46	arkh	I'd like the above, but lazy. It's to use as dummy data for datomic. I'd like to generate an arbitrary amount so I can feed it into partition-all, pmap, etc.
11:46	arkh	I'll have to take off for a while - thanks dnolen for your time, though
11:47	gfredericks	arkh: if you just don't call vec, it's lazy
11:47	gfredericks	because repeat is lazy
11:47	arkh	gfredericks: that's true but I'd like to feed the above into partition-all
11:47	gfredericks	arkh: no reason you can't do that
11:47	lmarburger	can anyone recommend a project that has a suite of good, idiomatic clojure unit tests? i'm new to clojure and some test examples would be a big help.
11:48	arkh	gfredericks: the consumer needs a lazy vector of map-in-a-vector
11:48	Morgawr	hi... I have a list of lambdas I need to execute in succession on a data structure, I'd usually do something like (-> x (f1) (f2) (f3)) but now I have [f1 f2 f3], which function do I need to use to run these lambdas in sequence?
11:49	arkh	[ [{:m v}] [{:m v}] ... ]
11:49	gfredericks	Morgawr: you want the result to be [(f1 x) (f2 x) (f3 x)]?
11:49	Morgawr	gfredericks: I want it to be (f3 (f2 (f1 x)))
11:49	Morgawr	like with ->
11:49	gfredericks	arkh: what is a lazy vector? why can the consumer not have a regular sequence instead of a vector?
11:50	gfredericks	Morgawr: (reduce #(%1 %2) x [f1 f2 f3]) should work
11:50	gfredericks	unless I got the arguments backwards
11:50	AimHere	I'd say %2 %1
11:50	arkh	gfredericks: excellent question ... I bet I'm messing up there ...
11:50	Morgawr	gfredericks & AimHere, I'll try, thanks
11:51	arkh	gfredericks: I'll have to try that later tho - thank you
11:51	gfredericks	sure
11:57	gfredericks	maio: woah look at that dynamic terminal thing on your previous blog
12:02	pandeiro	anyone know where in commons-fileupload FileItemStream's methods are defined (not just the interface)
12:04	pandeiro	i'm trying to track down why the encoding of the multipart is UTF-8 but the filename itself doesn't decode non-ascii chars properly..
12:10	svedubois	I am trying to translate this javascript to clojurescript:
12:10	svedubois	sliceX.container = 'sliceX';
12:10	svedubois	I try this:
12:10	svedubois	(.-container sliceX "sliceX")
12:10	svedubois	And I get this error:
12:10	svedubois	java.lang.Error: Unknown dot form of (. sliceX -container ("sliceX")) with classification [:cljs.analyzer/expr :cljs.analyzer/property :cljs.analyzer/expr]
12:10	svedubois	And if I try another one:
12:10	svedubois	(.container sliceX "sliceX")
12:10	svedubois	I get another error:
12:10	svedubois	"Error evaluating:" (.container sliceX "sliceX") :as "xtk.sliceX.container(\"sliceX\");\n"
12:10	gfredericks	you need set!
12:10	svedubois	#<TypeError: Property 'container' of object #<xg> is not a function>
12:10	svedubois	What I am doing wrong?
12:10	gfredericks	(set! (.-container sliceX) "sliceX") I think
12:13	svedubois	"Error evaluating:" (set! (.-container sliceX) "sliceX") :as "xtk.sliceX.container = \"sliceX\";\n"
12:13	svedubois	#<Error: Could not find the given container.>
12:14	svedubois	(set! (.container sliceX) "sliceX")
12:14	svedubois	java.lang.AssertionError: Assert failed: set! target must be a field or a symbol naming a var
12:15	gfredericks	your namespaces is called xtk?
12:15	svedubois	Yes
12:16	svedubois	(.-container sliceX)
12:16	svedubois	#<[object HTMLBodyElement]>
12:16	gfredericks	it looks like it's compiling to what you want then?
12:16	gfredericks	xtk.sliceX.container = "sliceX"
12:16	gfredericks	is there some sort of setter handler on this library? I don't know how fully JS supports that stuff
12:16	gfredericks	haven't been paying attention
12:24	svedubois	It seems that it's compiling to "xtk.sliceX.container = \"sliceX\";, but I am not able to set the value "sliceX": #<Error: Could not find the given container.
12:24	svedubois	And I don't know why?
12:25	gfredericks	my guess is you'd get the same error if you were running the JS directly; i.e., it's not a clojurescript issue
12:25	gfredericks	you can try js* to verify that
12:25	gfredericks	(js* "xtk.sliceX.container = \"sliceX\")
12:25	gfredericks	with a closing quote at the end
12:32	svedubois	Yes I obtain the same error with: (js* "xtk.sliceX.container = \"sliceX\";\n")
12:33	svedubois	Do you think it is a JS support problem?
12:33	gfredericks	well I can't imagine an assignment failing in that way unless that new javascript setter method thing is going on
12:33	gfredericks	such that arbitrary code is being executed by the assignment
12:42	svedubois	The code that I am trying to translate to clojurescript is here: http://jsfiddle.net/gh/get/toolkit/edge/xtk/lessons/tree/master/13/#run
12:43	svedubois	The line 23 is: sliceX.container = 'sliceX';
12:43	gfredericks	like I said, I think you've translated it correctly, and your problem is something unrelated to clojurescript
12:52	honkfestival	in ClojureScript: Up and Running, I'm having trouble getting the example running at the top of page 11
12:52	honkfestival	https://gist.github.com/anonymous/4982cb289a10422cde01
12:56	honkfestival	https://gist.github.com/anonymous/28368bf67d0b37d7f5bf project.clj
12:56	arkx	honkfestival: :pretty-print true
12:57	honkfestival	ugh of course
12:57	arkx	Also, you don't need the commas. :)
12:58	honkfestival	I just pasted the text from the cljsbuild plugin
12:58	honkfestival	I should have looked it over a bit first
12:59	honkfestival	woot, thanks arkx
13:10	gfredericks	huh; I wonder how honeysql compares to the new java.jdbc API
13:33	svedubois	Is this js->cljs translation correct?
13:33	svedubois	var opacityController = volumegui.add(volume, 'opacity', 0, 1).listen();
13:33	svedubois	(def opacityController (-> (set! (.-add volumegui) [volume "opacity"]) .-listen))
13:34	gfredericks	no
13:34	gfredericks	(-> volumegui (.add volume "opacity" 0 1) (.listen))
13:34	gfredericks	the .-foo syntax is only for when you're referencing or setting attributes rather than calling methods
13:41	svedubois	#<TypeError: Object Volume has no method 'add'>
13:41	svedubois	TypeError: Object Volume has no method 'add'
13:42	gfredericks	well if it has no method called 'add' I wouldn't expect the JS you gave to work either
14:20	tomoj	does c.c.l.unifier not work with nominal ties? https://www.refheap.com/paste/5a68e6676060a41c464f02e5b
14:23	tomoj	oh, d'oh
14:44	danneu	My attempt writing a multithreaded app is built around (pmap work (repeatedly gen-random-str)). the work fn does a long computation and returns a string or nil.
14:45	danneu	I'd like to consume the lazy sequence and append any strings to a file. Is there any way to consume a pmaps sequence without getting blocked waiting for the next element?
14:47	danneu	In other words I'd like to consume any of the pmap threads that finish since one can take 100 seconds while another takes 1 second.
14:48	ucb_home	danneu: I'd use a combination of promise, future and deliver
14:48	ucb_home	danneu: I actually wrote a simple thing that does that (modulo the re-ordering of realized? promises)
14:49	ucb_home	danneu: the principle is like this: for each item in your seq, wrap that in a promise which you will deliver in a future (that's where you get your multi-threading)
14:49	ucb_home	danneu: it's crude, but it works
14:53	gfredericks	wouldn't a queue be sensible there?
14:53	gfredericks	with maybe some dedicated worker threads?
15:02	svedubois	Is this JS to CLJS correct?
15:02	svedubois	volume.dimensions[2] - 1
15:02	svedubois	(- (nth (.-dimensions volume) 2) 1)
15:04	ucb	gfredericks: that would be the right thing to do; yes
15:05	SegFaultAX	svedubois: dec might be nicer.
15:11	dnolen	svedubois: (dec (aget (.-dimensions volume) 2))
15:24	goracio	hey, anyone used monger ? there are couple of questions )
15:25	svedubois	How I can translate this JS to CLJS? https://www.refheap.com/paste/14018
15:26	jrheard	hi all! where i work, we've got a brownbag group going through "clojure programming", and this week it's my turn to present on multimethods. i've read the chapter know what they are and how to use 'em, but i'm trying to find good examples of their use in standard clojure libraries on github and haven't found anything yet.
15:26	jrheard	does anyone have a favorite code snippet / library that shows off the power/usefulness of multimethods?
15:26	jrheard	(i'm @jrheard on twitter if any idlers read the scrollback later on and have a good answer but i'm not around) thanks!
15:31	weavejester	Does anyone have any good suggestions for a the name of a protocol that defines a system that self-updates
15:32	Glenjamin	updatotron
15:32	weavejester	Haha
15:33	weavejester	I guess I could just call it "system" perhaps
15:33	goracio	damn only questions here and no answers ))
15:33	ivan	clojurebot: anyone?
15:33	clojurebot	Just a heads up, you're more likely to get some help if you ask the question you really want the answer to, instead of "does anyone ..."
15:34	Glenjamin	oh, you mean a clojure protocol declaration, rather than a communication protocol
15:34	goracio	where are any clojure hackers )
15:34	gfredericks	jrheard: multimethods are one of the features with a large talk-to-use ratio
15:34	jrheard	heh
15:34	gfredericks	like refs
15:34	Glenjamin	weavejester: SelfUpdatable ?
15:34	gfredericks	probably a lot of their use cases have been superseded by protocols
15:34	weavejester	Glenjamin: Yeah, it'll have functions: deref, amend!, and update!
15:34	jrheard	gfredericks: that is excellent context to have
15:34	weavejester	I'm using it to interface to a physics engine
15:35	weavejester	But it essentially defines any system with internal rules
15:35	Glenjamin	SelfContained ?
15:35	gfredericks	jrheard: I think they would be very natural to use if you wanted the inheritance mechanism
15:35	gfredericks	but again I've never even seen anybody use that
15:36	jrheard	nor i, although i've probably read less clojure source than you have
15:36	weavejester	SelfContained… Not really very catchy :)
15:36	danneu	there are various species that churn 100% of their internals.
15:36	weavejester	But thanks for the suggestion
15:36	danneu	maybe there's some catchy lingo on relates wiki pages
15:36	Glenjamin	Bubble
15:36	danneu	perhaps something hard to spell too, like 'anenome'
15:37	jrheard	is there any way i could have figured this out myself? e.g. are there any mailing list threads to this effect? or is this just the general feeling i'll also end up with after programming in clojure for a while longer?
15:37	weavejester	Glenjamin: Yeah, Bubble might do it. Or PocketUniverse. Or just Universe.
15:38	dnolen	wow wacky Closure dead code elimination issue finally isolated related to constructors that's been plaguing CLJS
15:38	dnolen	http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJS-500
15:38	weavejester	Or maybe I should call it "Resource" or something.
15:39	goracio	so about monger (monger/find "documents" {:first_name "Ringo"}) is this request sync ? so it waits for response ?
15:39	gfredericks	jrheard: not that I know of
15:39	jrheard	glad i asked then :) thanks for the help!
15:39	gfredericks	jrheard: except asking in #clojure :)
15:39	jrheard	:D
15:41	dnolen	erg, or not ...
15:42	svedubois	Is this JS->CLJS correct? From https://www.refheap.com/paste/14018 to this https://www.refheap.com/paste/14019
15:42	goracio	any thoughts ?
15:44	kencausey	Have I been in detention long enough?
15:44	weavejester	Autoverse perhaps...
15:45	jrheard	svedubois: i don't think that's right
15:45	jrheard	you probably want when-not instead of if
15:46	jrheard	if i'm reading this right, the doto will be evaluated if meshWasLoaded is false, and if meshWasLoaded is true the set! will be evaluated
15:46	jrheard	which doesn't seem like what you want
15:46	Glenjamin	oh crap, hiccup doesn't auto escape
15:48	Glenjamin	now i need to go find all of the bits of user input :(
15:49	xeqi	Glenjamin: nope, it doesn't. possibly relevant: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/ring-clojure/P2Jrk6SyYCo/q20vdOJsnpgJ
15:50	Glenjamin	i quite like the whole escaped and unescaped strings are different types approach
15:50	Glenjamin	i wonder if that's doable
15:50	svedubois	What about the first line onChange, is it necessary to use set!? Is there any other way? (set! (.-onChange meshVisibleController)
15:51	Glenjamin	been meaning to look at switching to laser, but been a bit lazy so far
15:51	jrheard	Glenjamin: a la https://pypi.python.org/pypi/MarkupSafe in python
15:51	jrheard	we use that at work and like it very much
15:51	jrheard	svedubois: i actually have never touched cljs so i have no idea :( sorry!
15:52	Glenjamin	jrheard: yeah, that's the idea
15:52	Glenjamin	ah, thats exactly what this safe hiccup thing does
15:53	weavejester	Ah, I think I'll call the protocol Autonomy
15:54	Glenjamin	heh, 2 hard problems and all that...
15:56	Bronsa	kencausey: enough that nobody remembers anymore what happened :)
15:56	Glenjamin	xeqi: looks good - do you know why String's to-str does (escape-html (raw s)) instead of just (escape-html) ?
15:57	Glenjamin	oh crap, i just realised i forgot to do CSRF protection too
15:57	goracio	so about monger (monger/find "documents" {:first_name "Ringo"}) is this request sync ? so it waits for response ?
15:58	xeqi	Glenjamin: because it would infinite loop: to-str -> escape-html -> as-str -> to-str -> escape-html ....
15:59	xeqi	so marking the string as raw it goes to-str -> escape-html -> as-str -> just return the string
15:59	xeqi	and then escapes it
16:00	Glenjamin	ah, i missed that bit in as-str
16:00	Glenjamin	the escaping is typed to String, instead of Object - so anything string-like would be left raw?
16:00	kencausey	Bronsa: if only, but thanks
16:02	xeqi	Glenjamin: it extends more types on https://github.com/weavejester/hiccup/blob/master/src/hiccup/util.clj#L34
16:02	xeqi	I'm not sure I understand your question
16:02	Glenjamin	safe-hiccup defines ToString on String to escape
16:03	Glenjamin	but hiccup defines ToString on Object to just (str), so if you use a non-string Object it'd not get escaped?
16:04	xeqi	... I think thats correct
16:05	Glenjamin	cool, i think i follow this
16:05	Glenjamin	although latest hiccup has an HtmlRenderer protocol in compiler.clj
16:06	xeqi	hmm, that might be a better place
16:07	xeqi	I fully admit this is a hacky thing to do
16:07	Glenjamin	yeah, i'll give it a go
16:07	Glenjamin	weavejester: is there any way that html-escape-by-default could get into hiccup core, or would that be a too big of a BC break?
16:07	xeqi	I'd be happy to see you pull something similar into a well tested library :p
16:08	xeqi	previous discussions say its on the roadmap for hiccup 2, since it breaks semver
16:08	weavejester	Glenjamin: It's been on the cards for a while, it just means a substantial redesign of the library.
16:08	weavejester	I've got some code in a branch, but never actually finished it.
16:09	Glenjamin	is it really that big? presumably most internal functions return a seq?
16:09	weavejester	It would also mean losing some of the speed Hiccup current has.
16:09	weavejester	Well, currently Hiccup functions return strings
16:09	Glenjamin	ah
16:09	weavejester	That would need to change to return DOMs of some type.
16:09	weavejester	Like maybe clojure.xml-style
16:09	Glenjamin	i've been making my helper functions return (list ..stuff..) because i assumed it auto escaped
16:10	weavejester	Except you might also want to encode comments and so forth, I'm not sure.
16:10	Glenjamin	and just letting it resolve the vector at the end
16:10	svedubois	Do you know any examples written in CLJS to use methods like:
16:10	svedubois	render.onShowtime = function() {}
16:10	svedubois	Or like onShowtime, onChange, onRender, onClick, etc.
16:10	svedubois	The only translation thar I have found is this one, and I am not sure if it is correct:
16:10	svedubois	(set! (.-onShowtime render) ...
16:13	gfredericks	svedubois: yes that is how to set a property. the function(){} part would be (fn [] ...)
16:19	gfredericks	is jayq still the easiest way to do ajax in cljs?
16:28	svedubois	When I useIn ClojureScript, how I can use this method (onShowtime) that allows to execute the body after all files were fully loaded and just before the first rendering attempt?
16:28	svedubois	render.onShowtime = function() {body ...}
16:29	danneu	ucb: is that promise/future/deliver code in arm's reach? if so i'd love to see it
16:57	Glenjamin	would a CSRF protection lib that didn't use sessions be useful to release?
16:59	Glenjamin	i'm writing something modelled on ring-anti-forgery, but my app currently avoids sessions and i'm keen to keep that
16:59	Glenjamin	unsure whether it'd be any use to people other than me
17:00	xeqi	how would that work? static key on startup?
17:00	svedubois	In clojure, how can I wait until one statement (for example, load a large file) is finished before continuing to the next statement?
17:02	svedubois	For example, if I want to read a pdf, I would like to wait until the file is completed before execute the read function.
17:04	Glenjamin	svedubois: that's what usually happens, it'll depend on the function you call
17:04	Glenjamin	xeqi: just straight cookies
17:05	kencausey	lein on windows doesn't seem to be seeing my plugin settings in .lein/profile.clj. Note that I'm on Win7. Am I missing something? For example: {:user {:plugins [[lein-pprint "1.1.1"] [lein-midje "3.0.1"]]}} Yet lein pprint returns 'not a task'.
17:05	Bronsa	svedubois: clojure is generally a synchronous language
17:06	svedubois	I am using JS external libraries to load a volume of images (a big one), when I execute the level window it tells me infinite, but when I rexecute the same level window some seconds after it gives me the true values.
17:06	svedubois	So in this case it doesn't wait.
17:07	Bronsa	wait are you talking about clojue or clojurescript?
17:07	svedubois	ClojureScript
17:07	Bronsa	oh.
17:07	svedubois	I have to use something like realized?
17:07	Bronsa	then I cannot help you, sorry
17:07	xeqi	kencausey: can you rename the file .lein/profiles.clj, with an s
17:08	kencausey	sigh
17:08	kencausey	thanks
17:09	kencausey	Not my week for seeing the obvious it seems.
17:11	stian	I'm trying to use this Java library in my Clojure app but I'm not sure how to import it. https://github.com/tulskiy/jkeymaster
17:11	stian	Just adding [com.github.tulskiy/jkeymaster "1.1"] in project.clj and run lein deps seemed to work, but I can't translate this to Clojure, and not sure what namespace to import Provider provider = Provider.getCurrentProvider();
17:11	stian	provider.init();
17:16	raek	stian: the package name is usually easy to discover from the Javadoc (if there is one)
17:16	Glenjamin	java devs assuming you're using an IDE :)
17:17	raek	stian: in this case Provider is really com.tulskiy.keymaster.common.Provider
17:18	raek	(ns ... (:import (com.tulskiy.keymaster.common Provider)))
17:18	stian	so I do (import [com.tulskiy.keymaster]) or [com.tulskiy.keymaster.common.Provider])? Sorry - no experience with java
17:18	raek	stian: you cant do the equivalent of "import com.tulskiy.keymaster.common.*;" in clojure. this is considered a feature.
17:19	raek	(com.tulskiy.keymaster.common Provider) and com.tulskiy.keymaster.common.Provider means the same for :import
17:19	raek	but with the first one you can list multiple classes
17:20	raek	stian: if there is not javadoc you can figure out the full name of the class from the filename of its .java file
17:24	stian	rack: Thanks a lot! So the REPL gives me this list of functions (turns out cmd line REPL was much more helpful than Sublime REPL) https://gist.github.com/houshuang/5474778 - now how do I rewrite "Provider provider = Provider.getCurrentProvider();" from the GH docs to Clj? I tried (new com.tulskiy.keymaster.common.Provider.getCurrentProvider)
17:25	hadronzoo	Is it possible to add new fields to a type previously defined with deftype?
17:27	raek	stian: (let [provider (Provider/getCurrentProvider)] ...)
17:28	raek	static method calls are written like as if the method of the class was a function in a namespace
17:29	stian	raek: Weird, When I type in (Provider/) it autocompletes the getCurrentProvider, but when I try to execute (Provider/getCurrentProvider) just to see what it returns, it says CompilerException java.lang.NoSuchFieldException: getCurrentProvider
17:29	raek	stian: did you have the paretheses there when you tried that?
17:30	raek	(Foo/bar) and Foo/bar are not the same things (and from the error message it sounds like you try the latter)
17:30	stian	raek: https://gist.github.com/houshuang/5474778
17:31	raek	stian: did you import Provider in the test namespace? (import '(com.tulskiy.keymaster.common Provider))
17:32	raek	the (:import ...) form is only used inside (ns ...) in source files
17:32	stian	yes I did (ns test (:import (com.tulskiy.keymaster.common Provider)))
17:32	raek	ok, so evaluating just Provider works? (it should just echo the class name back)
17:33	stian	Yes
17:33	stian	And keyboard completion shows all the methods
17:33	stian	Provider without parenthesis shows com.tulskiy.keymaster.common.Provider
17:33	raek	weitd
17:33	raek	*weird
17:34	stian	I tried the other function available (Provider/logger) and that worked fine, so maybe there's a bug in the library or something
17:34	raek	stian: the documentation seems to be wrong.
17:34	raek	stian: https://github.com/tulskiy/jkeymaster/blob/master/src/main/java/com/tulskiy/keymaster/common/Provider.java#L50
17:34	raek	stian: the getCurrentProvider method should take an argument
17:36	stian	raek: Yes! I tried (Provider/getCurrentProvider true) and it started a clojure.main icon on the task bar etc. Tack så jättemycke (jag är norrbagge)
17:36	raek	perhaps you should open an issue and tell the authors that the gh page example is broken?
17:36	stian	raek: will do
17:36	raek	stian: haha. det var så lite. (jag är svenne)
17:40	svedubois	Does it work Thread/sleep in CLJS?
17:41	hadronzoo	If it's not possible to add new fields to a type defined using deftype, would it be reasonable to use extend-type to add a new method that references a closure?
17:42	amalloy	svedubois: does Thread.sleep() work in JS?
17:42	svedubois	no
17:43	amalloy	hadronzoo: no. if you need to attach data to an object that doesn't "understand" the data you want, that's what metadata is for
17:45	hadronzoo	amalloy: Thanks, that makes sense. I want to memoize an expensive calculation on types I don't control.
17:46	amalloy	makes a little sense, i guess, although it's not clear to me why you can't just use memoize
17:49	hadronzoo	amalloy: Ha, well that would be a lot easier -- just use memoize in the protocol implementation. Thanks.
17:55	Glenjamin	arohner: yo, do you have any plans to expand bond?
17:55	arohner	Glenjamin: I don't have any pressing need. what are you interested in?
17:57	Glenjamin	there's that PR which lets you define values on stubs, thinking about allowing defining fake implementations - also some handy functions for grabbing info out of calls
17:58	Glenjamin	(bond/called fn) => num, (bond/called-once? fn) => boolean etc
17:58	arohner	I like called, called-once?
17:58	arohner	I forgot about the PR
17:59	Glenjamin	called-with? could be handy too, but potentially quite complex
18:04	Glenjamin	but in general, is the idea to keep bond small and simple, or try and provide lots of utility for spies/stubs ?
18:04	Glenjamin	if the former, I might spin off a fork for the latter :)
18:07	arohner	I prefer small and simple
18:07	arohner	you might say bond is a reaction to midje's bloated mess
18:09	Glenjamin	fair enough, i'm seeing a fair bit of repetition in my test code around spies, so will probably pull that out into a higher level lib
18:17	gfredericks	a spies lib?
18:17	gfredericks	I've been wanting one of those
18:21	danneu1	i'm grappling with my first multi-threaded app and tried to organize my questions on /r/clojure if anyone has a moment: http://www.reddit.com/r/Clojure/comments/1d8erc/my_first_attempt_at_a_multithreaded_program_am_i/
18:23	arohner	gfredericks: github.com/circleci/bond
18:26	gfredericks	danneu1: what went wrong with the agents approach
18:28	gfredericks	arohner: the example there is really weird
18:28	arohner	gfredericks: ah, good point
18:29	arohner	fixed
18:30	arohner	oh, I remember the point I was trying to convey
18:30	gfredericks	arohner: this is your lib?
18:30	arohner	yes
18:31	arohner	gfredericks: how about now?
18:31	gfredericks	yeah that's better
18:32	gfredericks	hmm
18:32	gfredericks	when I took a stab at something like this I also had a function for creating a spy without vars
18:33	gfredericks	that wouldn't be hard to expose, right?
18:35	arohner	gfredericks: see bond.james/spy
18:36	gfredericks	pardon me for not even looking :)
18:36	Glenjamin	have you ever looked at http://sinonjs.org/ ? it's full of spy goodies for javascript - that's the sort of stuff i'd be keen to build on top of bond
18:37	danneu1	gfredericks: it maxed out my laptop's cores but only sat at 20% cpu in a single thread when i moved my jar to my linode box. having no idea how to debug that, i thought i'd try another implementation and see how it fares. and i considered that i was just doing it the wrong way
18:38	gfredericks	danneu1: you started a bunch of threads manually?
18:39	gfredericks	where each thread was in an infinite loop?
18:39	danneu1	gfredericks: originally i had just (defn -main [& args] (pmap work (repeatedly gen-seed))), so i considered that pmap might not work how i think unless something is actually consuming the pmap sequence.
18:40	gfredericks	well right you'll get a few of them going and then nothing
18:41	Glenjamin	can you just throw doseq on the front?
18:41	Glenjamin	or is that a bad idea?
18:41	gfredericks	danneu1: but your agent idea -- that wasn't pmap right? with the agent did you start your own threads?
18:42	danneu1	Glenjamin: that's what i tried, but my problem is that worker runtime varies considerably an doseq will always wait on the next element even tho other elements are done and ready to by realized
18:43	Glenjamin	you probably want a slightly more managed pool i guess? queue + worker model
18:43	danneu1	gfredericks: I was using pmap this whole time so far. here's my first attempt: https://gist.github.com/danneu/820c024cb62859371f4c
18:43	danneu1	(developed on a small screen)
18:44	gfredericks	ah
18:44	gfredericks	yeah definitely stop using pmap
18:44	danneu1	gfredericks: but wouldnt that code there still at least fill a threadpool?
18:44	gfredericks	no because of the problems with pmap you've mentioned
18:45	gfredericks	you could use the agent and just start your own threads
18:46	danneu1	gfredericks: ah, that code launches two threads
18:46	gfredericks	in main do a (dotimes [_ 8] (.start (Thread. #(while true (work (gen-seed))))))
18:46	gfredericks	and there you have 8 workers running and your agent spitting things to the file
18:47	gfredericks	you could do the spitting in the agent function instead of a watcher which would be simpler, but should work either way
18:51	danneu1	Thanks for these ideas
18:59	danneu1	If (pmap mycomputation coll) starts only two threads without anything consuming the sequence, how come (map println (pmap mycomputation coll)) will fill the cores?
19:00	gfredericks	you're doing these in main?
19:00	danneu1	yes
19:02	gfredericks	running it with `lein run` or an executable jar?
19:02	danneu1	lein run
19:02	danneu1	well, also a jar.
19:03	gfredericks	when you say "will fill the cores" do you mean it runs forever or just till it gets a couple answers?
19:06	danneu1	Let me actually re-test my assumption real quick
19:06	Glenjamin	how do i get an unqualified symbol in a macro?
19:07	Glenjamin	aha, ~'
19:09	danneu1	gfredericks: Okay, just (pmap myfunc coll) enqueues two jobs at once. they finish. then nothing forever since it's not being consumed. got that. (map println (pmap myfunc coll)) enqueues coreCount+2 immediately, but won't enqueue more until the head of the seq is realized
19:10	danneu1	i get it now
19:36	danneu1	Is the most terse way to update an agent: (send myagent (fn [_] 42))
19:37	danneu1	Nevermind. I can extract that function into the fn you were talking about — `spit`ing my file within it. I'll stop rubber ducking now. Thanks again
20:02	Glenjamin	is the equivalent of the traditional FP 'zip' in clojure just (partial map list) ?
20:03	danneu1	zipmap?
20:03	gfredericks	yep
20:03	danneu1	oh
20:03	amalloy	~zip
20:03	clojurebot	zip is not necessary in clojure, because map can walk over multiple sequences, acting as a zipWith. For example, (map list '(1 2 3) '(a b c)) yields ((1 a) (2 b) (3 c))
20:04	Glenjamin	ok, cool
20:04	gfredericks	~clojure
20:04	clojurebot	clojure is not scheme
20:05	gfredericks	oh what if the inference engine knew about negation
20:05	gfredericks	~scheme
20:05	clojurebot	scheme is Scheme is like a ball of snow. You can add any amount of snow to it and it still looks like snow. Moreover, snow is cleaner than mud.
20:05	Glenjamin	now to see if i can understand zippers...
20:06	Glenjamin	i suspect if it was call clojure.tree, i'd have figured out what was going on a bit sooner
20:07	mthvedt	~lisp
20:07	clojurebot	"if you never learnt Lisp, then you never learned to program" -- some rant on some blog somewhere
20:07	mthvedt	~haskell
20:07	clojurebot	"you have to see features like that in the context of Haskell's community, which is something like Perl's community in the garden of Eden: detached from all shame or need to do any work." -- ayrnieu
20:08	Glenjamin	~python
20:08	clojurebot	python is ugly
20:08	nightfly__	~common-lisp
20:08	clojurebot	Gabh mo leithscéal?
20:08	Glenjamin	heh
20:08	mthvedt	~java
20:08	clojurebot	☕
20:08	mthvedt	~cobol
20:08	clojurebot	The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its teaching should, therefore, be regarded as a criminal offence. -- Dijkstra
20:08	danneu1	~ruby
20:08	clojurebot	Chunky bacon!
20:08	Glenjamin	~dijkstra
20:08	clojurebot	Huh?
20:08	honkfestival	~factor
20:08	clojurebot	bus factor is best if you try not to think about it. (https://github.com/clojure/clojure/graphs/contributors)
20:09	gfredericks	~javascript
20:09	clojurebot	javascript is beautiful, you're just too conformist to appreciate its quirks: http://tinyurl.com/7j3k86p
20:09	mthvedt	~racket
20:09	clojurebot	Cool story bro.
20:09	mthvedt	~ocaml
20:09	clojurebot	Excuse me?
20:09	Glenjamin	hrm, that bus factor this is somewhat alarming :D
20:09	honkfestival	~forth
20:09	clojurebot	excusez-moi
20:10	mthvedt	~c
20:13	stian_	Could anyone tell me why I keep getting Don't know how to create ISeq from: clojure.lang.Symbol on this ns macro https://gist.github.com/5475274?
20:16	Glenjamin	you usually get that when you pass a single symbol into :refer
20:16	Glenjamin	but that paste looks right to me
20:16	gfredericks	this isn't clojurescript is it?
20:18	stian_	gfredericks: No, I just run it with lein run.
20:22	gfredericks	try `lein clean`?
20:22	gfredericks	are you sure it's not the ns form in your other namespace?
20:25	stian_	gfredericks: Ah! You are completely right! Argh, better Clojure error messages could have saved me a lot of time, I didn't even consider looking in that other file.
20:26	gfredericks	phew
20:26	gfredericks	clojure still works
20:28	stian_	gfredericks: Haha! :)
20:29	stian_	I'm trying to wrap a Java API in Clojure. I use this function to return a listener - any way I can make it work whether the function f accepts an argument (hotKey) or not? (Ie. the final part should be (f hotKey) or (f) depending on f's arity
20:29	stian_	(defn conv-listener [f](proxy [com.tulskiy.keymaster.common.HotKeyListener] [] (onHotKey [hotKey] (f))))
20:31	Glenjamin	you might want to (:import [com.tulskiy.keymaster.common HotKeyListener]) in your ns, to make that a bit shorter :)
20:33	Glenjamin	i think this link does what you're after http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/proxy#example_1026
20:34	stian_	Glenjamin: Thanks, will have to chew on that a bit.
20:35	gfredericks	if you're trying to detect the arity of a function, that's not generally possible
20:37	gfredericks	if you could...that would lead to some weird-ass APIs
20:37	gfredericks	I wonder if that's why rich didn't have defn put metadata on functions...for our own good.
20:43	amalloy	well, the way things are now you can't tell what the supported arities of a function are. i wonder why, back at the Beginning, rich didn't add something like boolean IFn.supportsArity(int numArgs)
20:50	amalloy	unlike the metadata approach, it would only cost a pointer per function instance, if implemented carefully
21:12	mthvedt	amalloy: wouldn't it cost some fixnum per function class, not instance?
21:13	mthvedt	oh that's
21:13	mthvedt	old
21:17	amalloy	good point, mthvedt. it might be easier to implement storing it on instances, but it ought to work on classes
21:25	danneu1	jvisualvm is amazing. never profiled anything in my life but this was really easy
21:28	gfredericks	amalloy: curious what the use cases for supportsArity would be
21:28	gfredericks	the non-evil ones I mean
21:29	stian	Would love some feedback on what's an idiomatic design of a Clojure API http://codereview.stackexchange.com/questions/25575/api-wrapper-for-clojure-idiomatic-style-for-libraries
21:32	stian	danneul: Very cool, just read http://www.fatvat.co.uk/2009/05/jvisualvm-and-clojure.html. Looks quite useful
21:44	gfredericks	guys I kind of like chickens
22:05	andyfingerhut	gfredericks: It has been 22 minutes, and apparently everyone is still stunned into silence. :-)
22:29	gfredericks	I tend to have that effect on the channel
22:40	gfredericks	ha I typed "lein ring" into google and it autocompleted to "that's not a task"
22:55	howdynihao	what do you guys feel clojure excels at ?
23:05	danneu1	howdynihao: parens
23:05	danneu1	u?
23:11	technomancy	clojure is best at making the shortcomings of other languages painfully obvious
23:20	gfredericks	lein bundle install rubygems
23:43	shelducks	hello. has SLIME support for clojure been dropped? what mode is there instead?
23:43	gfredericks	nrepl
23:46	shelducks	thanks, I'll give it a try
23:52	danneu	(.start (Thread. (println "hello"))) doesn't output anything for me in nrepl.
23:53	danneu	so i've to use lein run to test my threaded stuff
23:53	danneu	grueling really
23:53	danneu	every day is another hardship for me