#clojure – 2013-03-23

2013-03-23

00:09	egghead	holy cow technomancy this looks amazing
00:15	technomancy	heh; thanks
00:33	nonuby	technomacy, minor suggestion, click to enlarge pics to hover to enlarge pics, I cant make out whats going on
00:41	technomancy	thanks, but the point isn't really what's in the pictures; it's that they're the same on both screens
00:49	nonuby	okay found the 'About'
00:53	seangrove	technomancy: Definitely looks slick!
00:58	technomancy	yeah, kinda looking for more ways to make it obvious
06:07	borkdude	hyPiRion ivaraasen nice, I see gnuplot works okay with org-babel
08:27	Glenjamin	is there a better way of turning a vector into a map of key => nil than this?
08:27	Glenjamin	&(reduce #(assoc %1 %2 nil) {} [1 2 3])
08:27	lazybot	⇒ {3 nil, 2 nil, 1 nil}
08:30	ejackson	&(zipmap [1 2 3] (repeat nil))
08:30	lazybot	⇒ {3 nil, 2 nil, 1 nil}
08:30	Glenjamin	ah, much nicers
08:30	Glenjamin	thanks
08:30	ejackson	plsr
09:37	maio	is there some way to check if there are new versions my project's dependencies?
09:38	hyPiRion	$latest leiningen-core
09:38	lazybot	[leiningen-core "2.1.1"] -- https://clojars.org/leiningen-core
09:39	hyPiRion	Not sure if there's a way to do that with Leiningen though, perhaps check out the plugins page?
09:40	maio	hyPiRion: thanks :) lein-outdated List newer available versions of dependencies
09:42	hyPiRion	You're welcome
12:19	TimMc	muhoo: OK, cool.
12:25	racycle	I have a very basic question: I don't understand this clojure idiom: (def my-fun (fn [] (println "test") :done)), i don't understand how :done works ?
12:28	p_l	it works by returning itself?
12:28	p_l	,(fn [] (println "test") :done)
12:28	clojurebot	#<sandbox$eval35$fn__36 sandbox$eval35$fn__36@188dff6>
12:29	p_l	it gives you a function, as visible above
12:29	p_l	,:done
12:29	clojurebot	:done
12:29	p_l	and as you see, :done returns itself
12:30	racycle	by returning itself ? that's interesting
12:30	p_l	racycle: self-evaluating element, in this case keyword symbol
12:30	p_l	basically, whatever is the "last" is the return value of the function in lisps
12:30	p_l	you could have any other literal there to return said literal, too
12:31	racycle	i see, so is (fn [] (println "test") a hash map that :done is the key for ? am i too far off
12:32	p_l	too far off
12:32	racycle	oh, the whole thing is a list
12:32	racycle	and the last element is returned. ok
12:32	p_l	it's a function defined in weird way
12:33	p_l	fn creates anonymous function, iirc, def will bind it to symbol my-fun
12:34	p_l	I don't usually use clojure, using CL instead, but the CL equivalent would be (setf (symbol-function 'my-fun) (lambda () (print "test") :done)), or so it seems to me
12:34	racycle	ok, that helps. I'll try to wrap my head around this construct a little
12:35	racycle	i find these a little confusing about Clojure compared to scheme/Racket
12:35	racycle	thanks again
12:36	p_l	in scheme...
12:36	p_l	that would have been (define my-fun (lambda () (print "test") :done)) ; Something like that?
12:41	racycle	i don't recall exactly, but the :done is not very familiar to me.
12:41	borkdude	racycle :done is just a value
12:41	borkdude	racycle not some special language construct
12:42	borkdude	,:foo
12:42	clojurebot	:foo
12:42	borkdude	,:done
12:42	clojurebot	:done
12:42	racycle	you're right, for some reason, i'm always thinking that it's a key for some map etc..
12:42	borkdude	yogthos I see you're writing a book, cool http://yogthos.net/blog/42?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
12:43	borkdude	racycle you can use any value as a key in a map, but keywords are most common
12:43	borkdude	,{nil 1, "foo" 2, :done 3}
12:43	clojurebot	{nil 1, "foo" 2, :done 3}
12:43	jtoy_	so if i want to add testing code to clojure, is midje the way to go?
12:44	racycle	ok thanks
12:45	ravster	hey all
12:53	ravster	how do I get a number from a string (Egs. 123.456) that does not necessarily have the ".456" part?
12:55	arrdem	ravster: well depends on the type of number you think you're trying to read.
12:55	bbloom	,(Double/parseDouble "123.456")
12:55	clojurebot	123.456
12:55	bbloom	,(int (Double/parseDouble "123.456"))
12:55	clojurebot	123
12:56	arrdem	bbloom beat me to i
12:56	arrdem	*it
12:56	arrdem	one could also &(read-string "123.456")
12:57	arrdem	in which case you will get Integer, Long or Double as the Clojure reader sees fit
12:57	bbloom	arrdem: i didn't suggest that b/c when parsing numbers like this, it tends to be from config files & the like, which read-string isn't secure enough for :-P
12:57	bbloom	but i guess now we have clojure.edn/read-string
12:57	arrdem	bbloom: where did I say it was a good idea XP
12:58	ravster	arrdem: I'm hopingto get routing in a compojure route with a number in it. The problem is that I can't just do :latitude since compojure splits on '/' and '.'
12:59	arrdem	ravster: can't you just require that a client urlencode those characters?
12:59	arrdem	. and / should both be taken care of by that..
12:59	xumingmingv	Raynes: I'am planning to host a chinese version of http://tryclj.com, is that OK?
13:00	ravster	arrdem: huh. didn't think of that option. Good idea. thanks.
13:02	ravster	aarrghh . '.' is an unreserved character
13:03	ravster	oh nvm. I don't know what I'm talking about.
13:03	arrdem	lulz
13:04	arrdem	$version
13:04	arrdem	$source
13:04	lazybot	Source not found.
13:05	arrdem	!source
13:05	ravster	now I need to figure out how compojure does urlencoding.
13:06	arrdem	ravster: I believe that it splits as you were saying, then un-urlencodes the split substrings
13:06	hyPiRion	what are you trying to do arrdem?
13:06	hyPiRion	,clojure-version ;?
13:06	clojurebot	{:major 1, :minor 5, :incremental 0, :qualifier "RC6"}
13:06	hyPiRion	$google clojurebot
13:06	lazybot	[hiredman/clojurebot · GitHub] https://github.com/hiredman/clojurebot
13:06	arrdem	hyPiRion: just trying to figure out which clojurebot github repo I need to be patching for thanks messages
13:07	hyPiRion	ah
13:07	arrdem	looks like hiredman's is the only active one tho
13:07	hyPiRion	yeah, that's the one
13:13	ryankask	hi. i'm trying to set up a test fixture that wraps the test function in a jdbc transaction and rolls it back after executing the test function. how can I do the roll back without raising an exception? the exception causes the tests not to run
13:20	llambda	hi all, i have a question about sharing functions between namespaces...is it all right to ask here?
13:20	tgoossens	I need some help
13:20	tgoossens	*
13:20	rodnaph_	does anyone have any experience with storage/query for n-dimensional datasets? (not exactly clojure related i know but i couldn't think of another place to ask!)
13:20	tgoossens	(sorry accidently hit enter :))
13:20	arrdem	!anyone
13:21	hyPiRion	~anyone
13:21	clojurebot	Just a heads up, you're more likely to get some help if you ask the question you really want the answer to, instead of "does anyone ..."
13:21	arrdem	(inc hyPiRion)
13:21	lazybot	⇒ 13
13:21	squidz	does anybody know how I can pass my sequence of nodes created by enfocus has html to my compojure routes?
13:21	tgoossens	i need some help with a presentation on "why clojure". http://lanyrd.com/2013/belgiumclj/scdtkk/
13:21	arrdem	llambda: this is #clojure so I'd hope that clojure questions are welcome..
13:22	tgoossens	Any tips advice on what i should tell
13:22	tgoossens	in what order, how detailed
13:22	llambda	arrdem: :)
13:22	llambda	i would like to share a set of functions between two separate namespaces. i'm having trouble articulating exactly what i'm trying to do i think, so i put together a simple gist: https://gist.github.com/maxcountryman/5228259
13:22	tgoossens	its not a talk about "why you should use clojure"
13:22	tgoossens	but rather a "why it was created"
13:23	tgoossens	i need some starting point :p
13:23	rodnaph_	squidz: i assume u just want to post the data, right? u can just .innerHTML of the topmost node maybe?
13:23	arrdem	tgoossens: start whith why java sucks and go from there..?
13:23	arrdem	or start with Lisp's awesome and sprinkle Java libraries on top?
13:24	llambda	basically what i want is to require the namespace where the functions are defined, in that example, baz.clj, and then have these functions be accessible in foo.clj when foo is required in a program, like: (require '[testing.foo :as foo]) ... => (foo/qux "test")
13:24	tgoossens	arrdem: no :p
13:24	tgoossens	i was going to start with
13:24	tgoossens	"complexity
13:24	arrdem	llambda: yeah hang on there's a toolkit for this
13:24	tgoossens	from my perspective
13:24	llambda	thanks arrdem :)
13:24	tgoossens	almost all decisions in clojure are made based on "complexity"
13:24	arrdem	AHAH I remember what codebase it was in..
13:25	llambda	i'm surprised this isn't a more common issue, so maybe i'm approaching DRY the wrong way here?
13:25	arrdem	llambda: https://github.com/ztellman/potemkin
13:25	arrdem	gimme karma XP
13:26	squidz	rodnaph_: okay, but im not sure how I can combine clojurescript with the normal clojure in my compojure code
13:26	rodnaph_	i think you've lost me sorry squidz... clojurescript is in the browser, and clojure on the server, right?
13:27	squidz	rodnaph_: yes correct
13:27	SegFaultAX	You guys should watch "Whence Complexity?" by Michael Nygard from Conj 2012. It has absolutely nothing to do with Clojure but it's fantastically interesting.
13:27	rodnaph_	so u need to pass some data (some HTML by the sounds of it) from the client to the server?
13:27	squidz	and my i'm trying to figure out how I can use clojurescript to render different html pages when all the javascript is thrown into one file
13:27	llambda	arrdem: so there's no way to do this in vanilla clojure? i'll need to pull in this library it seems like?
13:28	arrdem	llambda: I don't know enough about how Clojure handles namespaces to really answer that question.. some code in clojure.core actually calls the "load" fuction to eval other code in the current namespace, but that seems to be a really shitty idea
13:28	llambda	yeah heh
13:28	squidz	rodnaph_: yeah I just dont know how to make multiple pages with clojurescript
13:29	llambda	i was going to try load but that seems like a hack
13:29	arrdem	llambda: yeah that's my sense too
13:29	llambda	in python this would "just work" as it were
13:29	squidz	rodnaph_: do you know what I mean?
13:29	llambda	so my expectations might be off
13:29	arrdem	you sure about that?
13:29	llambda	i may be doing it wrong
13:29	arrdem	I don't think you can pull that shit in Python
13:29	rodnaph_	i think i do yes. enfocus seems to allow you to specify templates via remote data sources.
13:30	llambda	arrdem: if you import a module, it's accessible from that module, yeah
13:30	llambda	i mean, from the module you import it into
13:30	llambda	so if a library imports some other library, then you can access that other library from the first library directly
13:31	arrdem	okay sure... but if you have (in-ns a (import b)), (in-ns c (import b) (b/cc/foo))
13:31	rodnaph_	so you can (deftemplate some-tpl "templates/file.html" [] etc...) and the HTML will just get served from your app/server
13:31	rodnaph_	i've not actually used this though, just looking at the docs.
13:31	rodnaph_	so apologies if you've already been over this.
13:32	llambda	arrdem: i'm not sure how that translates to python
13:32	arrdem	llambda: it isn't valid clojure, but it's the same example you gave with different names.
13:32	squidz	rodnaph_: no, Im also not very sure. So ill try to make the html available on a route and see if it renders with enlive
13:33	arrdem	hyPiRion: thoughs here? how to refer symbols from required namespace into the current namespaces such that they are accessible by any user of the current namespace
13:34	rodnaph_	squidz: it'll be easier to make the HTML available via a static resource (compojure.route.source "/templates")
13:34	llambda	arrdem: i think something like this in python would work --> https://gist.github.com/maxcountryman/5228620
13:34	rodnaph_	s/source/resources/
13:34	stuartsierra	arrdem: Clojure does not support this directly.
13:34	arrdem	stuartsierra: that's what I suspected
13:34	arrdem	stuartsierra: but you should be able to hack it..
13:34	llambda	hm so what's the idiomatic way of sharing functions like this?
13:34	stuartsierra	You can write a function that calls `refer` to get the symbols you want, and call that at the top of the namespace that needs them.
13:35	squidz	rodnaph_: yeah I have them available, I just havent tried it yet
13:35	llambda	is that considered a hack?
13:35	arrdem	stuartsierra, llambda hang on here I have a macro idea
13:35	stuartsierra	llambda: I do not consider calling `refer` to be a hack. Any other approach, such as re-def'ing vars in the target namespace, IS a hack.
13:36	llambda	yeah i do not want to re-def
13:36	llambda	that just looks ugly and seems unnecessary
13:36	arrdem	llambda: well that's the best you're gonna get
13:36	arrdem	and that's what Python is doing under the covers I suspect
13:36	stuartsierra	Namespaces are not "modules" in the Python sense. They're flat.
13:37	borkdude	hmm, some code that used to work in clojure 1.4 now gives me an clojure.lang.Numbers.throwIntOverflow - is this a known thing?
13:39	TimMc	muhoo: Should the return type be last?
13:39	borkdude	I didn't say anything (same result in 1.3, 1.4)
13:40	TimMc	muhoo: e.g. "pub st toOctalString : long -> String"
13:41	llambda	stuartsierra: what would that refer function look like for the simple example i posted?
13:41	arrdem	llambda: almost have one working hang on
13:41	clojurebot	excusez-moi
13:41	stuartsierra	llambda: Just define a function that calls `refer`.
13:42	llambda	i think i did that
13:42	stuartsierra	Then call it.
13:42	llambda	but it doesn't seem to expose the vars like i'm expecting
13:42	llambda	(foo/qux) doesn't work
13:43	borkdude	(using +' instead of + worked)
13:46	stuartsierra	llambda: If you want prefixed symbols then use `alias` instead of `refer`.
13:46	stuartsierra	But really, all this is just making extra work for yourself.
13:47	stuartsierra	Just `:require` the other namespace where you want to use it.
13:47	llambda	:require what exactly? i want to :require foo and then have access to everything foo in turns require, ideally
13:48	stuartsierra	You can't have that. :)
13:48	llambda	:(
13:48	danlarkin	not only can't you have it, you don't actually want that
13:48	llambda	i want to share a common set of functions
13:48	llambda	as if they were written twice
13:48	llambda	without writing them twice
13:48	stuartsierra	Why?
13:48	clojurebot	why is the ram gone is <reply>I blame UTF-16. http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/but-why-is-the-ram-gone
13:48	llambda	this seems like DRY 101 :)
13:48	danlarkin	so put them in myproject.utils?
13:48	llambda	because the functions are identical
13:49	tgoossens	does someone know a lisp that is OO?
13:49	llambda	but they're needed in two separate namesapces
13:49	danlarkin	so require myproject.utils from two namespaces
13:49	arrdem	(inc danlarkin)
13:49	lazybot	⇒ 1
13:49	llambda	okay but then they aren't exposed for programs requiring myproject.foo
13:50	stuartsierra	That's a feature. :)
13:50	arrdem	yeah so?
13:50	arrdem	make someone else require foo.util too
13:50	arrdem	nbd
13:50	danlarkin	this is literally the purpose of namespaces
13:50	danlarkin	... to namespace functions
13:50	llambda	that's not ideal for how i've written this api...
13:50	jtoy_	can anyine tell me why this error wouldnt be caught? https://www.refheap.com/paste/12864
13:50	jtoy_	im sure its something simple, but i dont see what im missing
13:50	llambda	i'd like to have client-a and client-b and then have the caller use them like this: (client-a/post ...)
13:51	llambda	(cleint-b/post ...)
13:51	jtoy_	do i need to do something special with java exceptions? as opposed to clojure exceptions?
13:51	arrdem	jtoy_: no
13:52	jtoy_	am i doing something wrong?
13:52	llambda	the client-a and client-b namespaces define a function "request" that differs, but the wrappers for that function, get, post, ... are identical
13:53	tgoossens	in the clojure rationale, what is meant with "heterogeneous collections" ?
13:53	arrdem	jtoy_: weird.. you seem to be doing it right
13:53	headshot	tgoossens: contains different things
13:53	tgoossens	ok
13:54	tgoossens	thanks
13:54	tgoossens	in contrast with List<Type> then
13:54	stuartsierra	jtoy_: Try catching Throwable instead of Exception.
13:54	headshot	yes
13:54	tgoossens	great thanks :)
13:55	jtoy_	weird, that doesnt work either
13:58	jtoy_	that was ther error, Throwable, never heard of this before
13:58	yogthos	borkdude: yeah pretty excited about that :)
13:59	danlarkin	jtoy_: it means you're getting an Error, not an Exception
14:00	yogthos	danlarkin: hey so looks like html escaping is in? :)
14:00	jtoy_	uh, ok
14:00	yogthos	danlarkin: as a feature I mean :)
14:00	danlarkin	yogthos: I'm working on it yeah
14:00	yogthos	danlarkin: awesome! :)
14:00	yogthos	danlarkin: sorry my version was halfassed :)
14:01	yogthos	danlarkin: I think using maps instead of strings will definitely be nice though, that way you can pass around all kinds of metadata
14:01	jtoy_	must be a java thing?
14:02	arrdem	jtoy_: in the worst case I suppose you could catch Object XP
14:02	danlarkin	jtoy_: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/912334/differences-betweeen-exception-and-error
14:02	Glenjamin	llambda: in myproject.utils, define a macro that creates the get/post/etc
14:02	Glenjamin	and then call that macro in client-a and client-b
14:03	Glenjamin	or juggle it around so its (app/post client-a …)
14:04	jtoy_	will Throwable also catch Exception?
14:04	gfredericks	yes
14:04	gfredericks	because Exception implements Throwable
14:04	danlarkin	jtoy_: yes, but you almost certainly shouldn't be catching Throwable
14:04	danlarkin	something is probably going wrong somewhere
14:04	bbloom	,(instance? Throwable (Exception.))
14:04	danlarkin	json parsing shouldn't throw an Error
14:04	clojurebot	true
14:04	jtoy_	i just want to print out my message and rethrow it
14:05	llambda	Glenjamin: first option sounds pretty good :)
14:05	Glenjamin	mm, thats probably how i'd do it
14:06	arrdem	llambda: https://www.refheap.com/paste/12865 challenge completed. should work but not general and it's the redef hack.
14:06	gfredericks	oh throwable is a class
14:13	TimMc	muhoo: I'll do some doc work (changelog, etc.) and I can get a release out today, I think.
14:14	TimMc	Signed, too!
14:14	dsabanin	hi guys
14:14	dsabanin	how do I import leningen 2 project into eclipse?
14:14	dsabanin	since lein-eclipse is deprecated, what's the official way?
14:15	llambda	arrdem: thanks, i'll play around with this
14:18	arrdem	llambda: seriously tho, please rethink your API rather than use that piece of garbage. I think that Glenjamin's #2 where he proposed that clien1 and client2 be configurations for a more general client is much more elegant than anything you could get with that hack.
14:18	arrdem	that said your code not mine.
14:18	xeqi	dsabanin: there might be something in https://code.google.com/p/counterclockwise/ that could help
14:19	Glenjamin	(using client1 (api/get …) (api/post …)) might be a decent approach too
14:24	llambda	because i'm wrapping clj-http it'd be nice to retain the client/get client/post api
15:04	Raynes	arrdem: https://www.refheap.com/paste/12865
15:04	Raynes	Is this some kind of alias thing?
15:04	Raynes	This is horrifying.
15:06	gfredericks	Raynes: do you periodically check /pastes just in case something is horrifying?
15:06	Raynes	Yes.
15:07	gfredericks	now I see why you made refheap
15:08	arrdem	lol
15:08	arrdem	yes it's horifying
15:08	arrdem	llambda didn't seem to understand that
15:13	arrdem	Raynes: I told llambda to use potemkin but apparently libraries are hard.
15:14	bbloom	this python __all__ style topic seems to come up regularly :-P
15:14	Raynes	Ugh, potemkin.
15:14	arrdem	Raynes: although now that I'm reading it potemkin does this more metadata
15:14	callenbot	danlarkin: I love you.
15:15	bbloom	generally, i've managed to talk myself out of a lot of bad ideas that i've gotten stuck into my brain from past languages, but i regularly find myself wanting to decompose namespaces while preserving usage interfaces
15:15	jtoy_	if i have a method that just reads a file and returns its content, how should I define it in terms of with def/defonce,? I use def now and when I use load it takes too long because it seems to laod the file, i want the file loading to only happen once when the method is called
15:15	jtoy_	is there a way to achieve this?
15:15	bbloom	jtoy_: try a delay
15:16	bbloom	,@(delay 5)
15:16	clojurebot	5
15:16	llambda	i think i'm just going to rewrite this so there's a single "client" namespace defining these functions which you then pass a service into, like Glenjamin's suggestion
15:17	llambda	it means you'll have to require two namespaces, at least, but maybe that's not terrible
15:17	jtoy_	bbloom: ok, ill try that,is the file supposed to be read though?
15:17	jtoy_	in the first place i mean?
15:18	bbloom	jtoy_: i'm not 100% sure what you're saying you're doing, but it sounds fishy to me :-P
15:18	bbloom	jtoy_: generally, you should avoid doing heavy duty work on startup or file load
15:18	clojurebot	profiles in clj-http is https://gist.github.com/1846759 an example of the profiles feature in Leiningen 2
15:18	arrdem	llambda: ^
15:18	bbloom	jtoy_: instead, parameterize with arguments & make loading of config files etc explicit during setup
15:19	jtoy_	bbloom: i have a bunch of these kinds of definitions: https://www.refheap.com/paste/12869 my code is much slower with these definitions in code
15:19	bbloom	jtoy_: quick fix: wrap the with-open call in a delay call
15:19	bbloom	jtoy_: then add @ at each reference
15:19	llambda	i'm not sure what you're pointing to, arrdem :)
15:19	bbloom	jtoy_: but better yet: stop doing this :-P
15:20	bbloom	jtoy_: make that into a load-males function & then use explicit arguments where males is needed
15:20	jtoy_	bbloom: ok, what is the better way to do this? I have tons of files I need to read in to build my models
15:20	bbloom	jtoy_: you can aggregate all these files into a map
15:21	bbloom	(defn thing-that-uses-lots-of-files [file-map] ...)
15:21	bbloom	and file-map can be {:males [...] :females [...]} etc
15:22	jtoy_	bbloom: ok, im going to test this
15:26	arrdem	llambda: clojurebot's clj-http profiles comment
15:27	llambda	what about it?
15:29	whilo	cemeric__: ping
15:29	arrdem	if you define a (with) form and your client1/client2 values, then profiles may be the minimum thing for you to wrap for your api
15:29	cemerick	man, what a mangling
15:29	cemerick	whilo: what's up?
15:31	whilo	cemerick: if i add the piggieback dependency to the basic c2-demo (not actually using it) i get a weird compiler backtrace
15:31	whilo	take the hello-bars sample from here https://github.com/lynaghk/c2-demos
15:31	whilo	add the piggieback dependency like this: http://pastebin.com/eW6NUR6B
15:32	whilo	clojure.lang.ExceptionInfo: Assert failed: :as alias must be unique; offending spec: [cljs.repl :as repl]
15:32	whilo	(not (contains? (alias-type (clojure.core/deref aliases)) alias)) at line 1 src/cljs/hello_bars/core.cljs
15:33	whilo	not sure what it is, maybe my fault, it still takes me time to wrap my head around clojurescript compilation problems
15:36	powr-toc	Hey, has anyone managed to get penumbra/opengl going with a recent clojure? 1.4/1.5?
15:38	arrdem	so yesterday I banged out multimethod +, -, / and * just for grins, and now I'm contemplating how extending them could go wrong. Is this expected for multimethods and protocols?
15:52	arrdem	herm... at what point is it "kosher" to use core. for a library?
15:53	amalloy	arrdem: when rich tells you to
15:53	arrdem	amalloy: yep, sounds about right
15:57	whilo	cemerick: can u reproduce?
15:58	jasonjckn	powr-toc: no
15:59	jasonjckn	powr-toc: it's no longer maintained, too bad, the author is siad he's working on cljs opengl lib
15:59	cemerick	whilo: are you in irc via SMS or something? :-P
15:59	cemerick	whilo: the src/cljs/hello_bars/core.cljs has two repl aliases
16:01	ztellman	powr-toc: no, but patches/new ownership welcome
16:01	ztellman	also, the webgl/cljs thing is probably not going to happen in the short term
16:02	danlarkin	you've got too many projects as-is :)
16:08	whilo	cemerick: why via SMS? right, but the sample works without the dependency. i can also push my playground project, which doesn't have this core.cljs file with two repl definitions
16:08	cemerick	whilo: was just giving you a hard time about the 'u' :-)
16:09	tieTYT2	i have a map of maps, and I want to get the value of one of the nested keys. What's an idomatic way of doing this in clojure?
16:09	whilo	oh, ok. :-)
16:09	tieTYT2	nested keys = nested maps
16:09	cemerick	whilo: does the core.cljs file have two repl aliases?
16:11	arrdem	,(-> {:foo {:bar {: baz 3 }}} :foo :bar :baz)
16:11	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: Invalid token: :>
16:11	arrdem	what the
16:12	xeqi	the space between : and baz
16:12	arrdem	thankx xe
16:12	arrdem	,(-> {:foo {:bar {:baz 3 }}} :foo :bar :baz)
16:12	clojurebot	3
16:12	tieTYT2	nice, that's pretty cool
16:12	arrdem	hah. tieTYT2 that or get-in
16:13	arrdem	,(get-in {:foo {:bar {:baz 3 }}} [:foo :bar :baz])
16:13	clojurebot	3
16:13	tieTYT2	nice
16:13	tieTYT2	i like the latter becaus I can understand the documentation of it better :P
16:14	arrdem	yeah... get-in is a little clearer here.
16:14	tieTYT2	thanks for the help
16:14	arrdem	but -> is for badasses so XP
16:14	tieTYT2	when i learn clojure better i'll start using it
16:15	hyPiRion	get-in is preferable.
16:15	tieTYT2	i'm glad I asked because I was doing this with deconstruction: (defn post-map-to-string [{{{post-link :href} :attr} :post-link, image-links :image-links} post-map] ...
16:15	Okasu	,(get-in {:foo {:bar {:baz 3 }}} '(:foo :bar :baz)[])
16:15	clojurebot	3
16:15	xeqi	* destructuring
16:15	tieTYT2	my mistake
16:16	hyPiRion	,(-> {:a {:b {:c 10}}} (assoc-in [:a :d] 10) (update-in [:a :b :c] * 2))
16:16	clojurebot	{:a {:d 10, :b {:c 20}}}
16:17	Okasu	,(get-in {:foo {:bar {:baz 3 }}} ,'(,:foo ,:bar, ,:baz,)[])
16:17	clojurebot	3
16:19	bbloom	i disagree that get-in is preferable... i think it's only preferable when the key path is a parameter
16:19	bbloom	otherwise, -> allows for easier injection of function calls and debug print statements
16:20	hyPiRion	,(get-in [[:a :b] [:c [:d :e]]] [1 1 0])
16:20	clojurebot	:d
16:20	hyPiRion	,(-> [[:a :b] [:c [:d :e]]] 1 1 0)
16:20	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Long cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn>
16:20	hyPiRion	get-in should be used to lookup data, not modify it
16:20	arrdem	aaand this is why I lurk #clojure. That and yall answer some stupid questions for me XP
16:21	amalloy	can't we all just get along? let's use -> and get-in both
16:21	amalloy	(-> m (get-in [1 1 0]))
16:22	bbloom	amalloy: surely you need an eval or two in there
16:22	arrdem	amalloy: I'd suggest partial but then you need two more parens
16:23	amalloy	seriously though, that's the way i use -> most often: when functions' argument order is inconvenient. eg, suppose that m were some non-trivial expression here: (get-in (fsdokfjsfklne eif#ef #*ernfe(earf#r#t) [1 1 0]), and by the time you get to the second arg you've forgotten you're in the middle of get-in
16:23	oskarth	'lein new pedestal-service foo' gives error java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No implementation of method: :make-reader of protocol: #'clojure.java.io/IOFactory found for class: nil. Using lein2. Ideas?
16:26	whilo	cemerick: nope. this is the actual code i have problem with piggieback in: https://github.com/ghubber/example/blob/master/src-cljs/konvex/hello.cljs
16:26	whilo	see the comment at the top, either i take unify out or piggieback dependency from project.clj and it will build
16:29	cemerick	whilo: not sure what to say; the error message is talking about a src/cljs/hello_bars/core.cljs file
16:30	cemerick	I don't know how piggieback would affect that at all...
16:30	whilo	i tried to reproduce with the hello_bars example, but if this is a mistake in the original example code (having repl defined twice), then it is probably a different problem
16:33	whilo	i didn't want to push my messy code for it, but this where c2 and piggieback make my build explode with a compilation error like this: http://pastebin.com/nhUSDzJb
16:35	whilo	can i do something else to help pin it down?
16:35	arrdem	any comment on why core.matrix doesn't use multimethod +, -, * and /? https://github.com/mikera/matrix-api/blob/master/src/main/clojure/clojure/core/matrix/operators.clj
16:35	oskarth	Nevermind my earlier question - my lein profile defaulted to the wrong version of clojure :)
16:36	whilo	cemerick: me neither but excluding piggieback from project.clj fixes the error. maybe it is a bug in c2
16:36	amalloy	multimethods are slow, and i imagine core.matrix is performance-oriented
16:37	arrdem	amalloy: really? for type dispatch?
16:40	hyPiRion	arrdem: yes, use protocols instead
16:42	tomoj	seems like if you're calling generic + in an inner loop in some matrix stuff, you already lost?
16:42	cemerick	whilo: sorry, I'm not set up to dig into this at the moment. Maybe post to the clojurescript list?
16:42	whilo	ok
16:43	whilo	thx anyway!
16:56	sshack	There aren't any libraries for receiving email, are there? (I can find plenty for sending it, but I'd like my app to be able to receive and process it)
16:57	arrdem	sshack: you'll need to find a java smtp servlet probably.. not sure if one exists
16:57	arrdem	I'd be amazed if a Clojure one does
16:57	sshack	What about reading mailbox files or mailspool?
16:57	TimMc	sshack: https://github.com/timmc/hashflash This shitty little thing I wrote receives email and also sends.
16:58	sshack	TimMc: ahh. Cool.
16:59	arrdem	(inc TimMc) ;; a little bit impressed
16:59	lazybot	⇒ 35
16:59	arrdem	$karma technomancy
16:59	lazybot	technomancy has karma 48.
17:00	TimMc	arrdem: You won't be impressed once you've read the source.
17:00	arrdem	TimMc: java wrapper?
17:00	arrdem	or just a mess
17:01	TimMc	Well... it's very specific to GMail, there's no rate-limiting, and it's just generally not very robust.
17:01	akhudek	This is very cool: http://javolution.org/core-java/target/apidocs/javolution/text/Text.html
17:01	arrdem	closeenough.jpg
17:01	tomoj	it geocodes your email and sends you a geohash as in geohash.org?
17:02	arrdem	tomoj: wat
17:02	TimMc	tomoj: No, geohashing, the sport.
17:02	tomoj	ah, makes more sense :)
17:03	TimMc	You tell it a location and date and it tells you the coordinates. It's an email autoresponder, but you can text it if your cell provider has an SMS<->email gateway.
17:03	arrdem	tomoj: that's cool, didn't know ascii-printable geohashing was a thing.
17:06	tomoj	arrdem: http://geohash.gofreerange.com/ is better to look at than geohash.org if you don't already know geohash
17:07	arrdem	tomoj: ascii of the bitwise merge of the two doubles?
17:11	tomoj	yeah
17:11	tomoj	in base 32 so you have 3+2 or 2+3 bits per char
17:23	ed_g	given a function (defn foo [a &rest [b]] (let [b (or b 'default-b)] (list a b))) is there a cleaner way to give b an default argument similar to the CL (defun foo (a &optional (b 'default-b)) (list a b))
17:24	arrdem	blergh. make foo vardic with the missing argument case recursive
17:24	arrdem	(defn foo ([ x y ] (+ x y)) ([x] (foo x 1)))
17:25	arrdem	ed_g: does that make sense?
17:25	ed_g	arrdem: thanks! :-) that's what I'm doing now, just wasn't sure if there was another idiom
17:28	jtoy_	can I create methods that generate def methods that all bind to root? so i call my_method that does "def foo.." "def bar..." ?
17:28	ed_g	jtoy_: create a fn and then give it a name using intern
17:30	jtoy_	I have to know the namespace? or can it know to bind to the current namespace?
17:31	arrdem	jtoy_: erm.. not sure how to get the invocation namespace but if you use a macro rather than a fn then all interns are local by default.
17:34	jjttjj	what are people's opinion on laser vs enlive these days
17:37	jtoy_	arrdem: ns i think
17:38	arrdem	jtoy_: probably.. I'm not very familiar with the global earmuf values
17:39	edw	jjttjj: Given that it takes like thirty seconds to grok laser and…I do not know how long to grok enlive, I'd vote for laser.
17:40	edw	I mean, enlive seems to require consistent and heavy Kool-aid drinking to sustain proficiency. It's like D3.js that way.
17:42	tomoj	hmm, when I upgrade clojure to 1.6.0-master-SNAPSHOT, swank explodes, but 1.5.1 works fine
17:42	tomoj	even though there are no changes in 1.6.0-master-SNAPSHOT
17:43	danneu	what's the #1 intended usecase for enlive/laser? i've used hiccup to generate html and enlive for scraping. but their READMEs just mention "html transformation".
17:43	jjttjj	danneu: html templating
17:49	tomoj	guess something was stale
17:56	devn	tomoj: Whoa, so swank-clojure works with 1.5.1 now?
17:56	devn	tomoj: That wasn't the case a few months back.
17:57	tomoj	lein-swank 1.4.5, released 26 Dec, fixed the 1.5 problems I think
17:57	devn	tomoj: nice. I like nrepl, but swank is still way more complete
17:58	arrdem	does defrecord not support vardics? this doesn't seem to be working for me... https://www.refheap.com/paste/12873
18:02	bbloom	arrdem: protocols don't support variadics at all
18:02	bbloom	arrdem: you're creating an argument with the name '&
18:03	bbloom	arrdem: the common pattern is to define protocol names like -foo with the leading dash to suggest that it's an implementation detail, then you define a corresponding foo fn that calls -foo
18:03	bbloom	arrdem: in this case, you can write (defprotocol IAddable (-add [this]) (-add [this x]))
18:03	bbloom	arrdem: and then you can define the variadic version generally, so that anything IAddable will get it for free
18:04	bbloom	otherwise, every implementer of IAddable would need to implement it the same each time
18:04	bbloom	side note: (. self val) can be (.val self)
18:04	arrdem	bbloom: hum... okay thanks for the info.
18:05	arrdem	and the (. self val) thing was deliberate for the record XP
18:05	bbloom	,(macroexpand-1 '(.foo x))
18:05	clojurebot	(. x foo)
18:06	bbloom	arrdem: they are equiv
18:06	arrdem	bbloom: so you would only define -add in the protocol and provide a general (add) which simply invokes the appropriate protocol fn recursively.
18:06	bbloom	yes
18:06	edw	danneu: You can read in an HTML template (as "plain old HTML") and modify it based on your model. So your designer or whoever can give you HTML and you don't need to modify it or teach them how to put {{things}} <%=in%> it.
18:07	bbloom	limit protocol usage for when you need fast, type-based, open dispatch
18:07	bbloom	however, you'll quickly find that single dispatch is insufficient for numeric applications, but i'll leave you to learn that one on your own :-)
18:08	arrdem	bbloom: single dispatch?
18:08	callenbot	danlarkin: <3
18:08	arrdem	bbloom: I know that this is gonna be shit slow but I don't know what you mean by that.
18:09	danneu	edw: oh, i see. yeah, feeding in html makes sense to me when scraping but that makes sense now too
18:10	bbloom	arrdem: read the docs on multi-methods
18:10	arrdem	bbloom: oh. global map lookup.
18:11	bbloom	arrdem: ugh, not sure what you mean by that. but numerics are hard, bordering on impossible to model with protocols
18:11	bbloom	actually, maybe not even bordering
18:11	dnolen	arrdem: the issue is you really want it to be open, you have the problem that the other argument may not be one you know how to handle. Can maybe get around that with a coercion protoocl.
18:11	edw	It's nice, because you can have HTML that has representative content in it that simply gets replaced by your Clojure code. So you can have "<span class=price>$19.95</span>" instead of "<span class=price><%=(:price product)%></span>" in there.
18:14	arrdem	dnolen: yeah that's what I'm running into... the ENumber is existing code I already had but I want to wind up with an ISymbolic that is also IAddable and that's gonna be a mess.
18:18	bbloom	arrdem: you've discovered the Expression Problem :-)
18:18	bbloom	arrdem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expression_problem
18:19	hiredman	I've played a little with generating something like Numbers.java from a database of information about the types, but it still isn't really open to extension
18:20	hiredman	https://github.com/hiredman/Archimedes/blob/master/src/Archimedes/bar.clj#L164 it is kind of neat
18:20	jtoy_	if I only have the name of a function in a string, how do I eval it with args? this doesnt seem to work: (eval (read-string "+") 3 4)
18:21	jtoy_	nor do i expect it to, but im not sure how to do it
18:22	Bronsa	((resolve (read-string "+")) 3 4)
18:23	bbloom	or, more generally: @(resolve ...)
18:23	bbloom	however, this is a dubious thing to do....
18:24	jtoy_	thx
18:24	jtoy_	bbloom: im implementing what we spoke about earlier
18:25	bbloom	jtoy_: i'm not sure how that involves symbol resolution....
18:26	jtoy_	bbloom: its always a little more complicated :) but specifically im reading in a bunch of files and some of them are parsed differently, so based of the filename i know which parser to use
18:27	jtoy_	i hardcoded it before, but know i do it dynamically
18:27	tomoj	hiredman: why output java?
18:27	bbloom	jtoy_: a map of special-name-parts to functions will be 1) safer 2) simpler 3) more flexible
18:28	jtoy_	bbloom: ok, let me try yours, i didnt think of it like that
18:29	jtoy_	although you said that earlier
18:29	tomoj	oh, I guess using clojure instead of Numbers.java would be a c-in-c problem?
18:31	jtoy_	bbloom: how do i pass the function around to be used?
18:32	bbloom	,{"clj-parser" `read-string}
18:32	clojurebot	{"clj-parser" clojure.core/read-string}
18:32	bbloom	er rather without the `
18:34	jtoy_	bbloom: so calling it is the same way from earlier using @ or resolve?
18:49	TimMc	muhoo: https://clojars.org/org.timmc/handy/versions/1.5.0 :-D
18:50	TimMc	I can't push to github yet, though.
18:50	bbloom	jtoy_: ##((get {"add" +} "add") 5 10)
18:50	lazybot	⇒ 15
18:51	TimMc	Why would someone DDoS github?
18:51	TimMc	Like, what do they hope to gain?
18:52	bbloom	TimMc: might be DDosing someone hosted on github
18:52	bbloom	TimMc: or they could just be dicks.
18:52	bbloom	TimMc: a lot of people are just not very nice and have a crappy sense of humor
18:54	nightfly	So thats whats going on... thought it was shitty airport wifi
18:58	jtoy_	such a shitty error for file doesnt exist: IllegalArgumentException No implementation of method: :make-reader of protocol: #'clojure.java.io/IOFactory found for class: nil clojure.core/-cache-protocol-fn (core_deftype.clj:495)
19:01	ryanf	anyone have opinions about pedestal?
19:01	ryanf	is it polished enough to be worth trying to use for a clojure noob?
19:06	bttf	dont have much to say about pedestal but i thought the mobile versin of their website rocked
19:07	callenbot	ryanf: Clojure noobs should not be using Pedestal.
19:07	callenbot	ryanf: I would look into Luminus.
19:08	ryanf	callenbot: thanks
19:09	ryanf	oh um
19:09	ryanf	this blog post about luminus starts with "Since the retirement of Noir..."
19:09	ryanf	I didn't see anything on noir's website that made it look retired
19:09	callenbot	ryanf: Noir was retired.
19:09	callenbot	ryanf: Granger is very busy and hasn't had time to update the Noir site.
19:09	callenbot	ryanf: do not use Noir.
19:09	maio	jtoy_: (: I got that same error few hours ago ... yes it sucks hard
19:09	callenbot	ibdknox: please update/redirect the webnoir site.
19:09	ryanf	callenbot: thank you
19:09	callenbot	ibdknox: it's confusing noobs.
19:10	ryanf	callenbot: you are a very sophisticated bot btw. I'm impressed
19:10	callenbot	ryanf: yogthos is the brain trust behind Luminus, but I've hacked on it and use it from time to time. It has some good defaults for common-case stuff websites need.
19:10	ryanf	cool
19:11	callenbot	ryanf: pedestal has some cool stuff I might go ghoul on and rip out, but I'm not at present recommending it to anybody. I don't think it was made by people that actually have to hack up/on websites on a regular basis.
19:12	Raynes	All I can see about pedestal is that there is a pretty website with no information on it.
19:13	Raynes	shrug
19:13	Raynes	I'd rather see a README with sense making.
19:13	callenbot	Raynes: I was rummaging through the guts. Stinky offal.
19:13	callenbot	Raynes: lots of do-nothing silliness for hippies.
19:14	jtoy_	bbloom: weird, your example works, but I cant get it to work in my code
19:14	bbloom	jtoy_: distill a minimal repo
19:16	Glenjamin	the noir deprecated thing caught me out two
19:17	Glenjamin	spent two evenings reading docs before i came across the announcement blog post
19:23	jtoy_	bbloom: I tink this is my issue: ( (get {"fn" (read-string "+")} "fn" ) 5 10) what is wrong here?
19:23	bbloom	jtoy_: ##(class (read-string "+"))
19:23	lazybot	⇒ clojure.lang.Symbol
19:24	jtoy_	what should it be? it should return function? im not quite sure why its different from your example
19:25	bbloom	symbols implement IFn, so they are "callable", but they are not necessarily functions. you want the function that resides in the var with the symbol 'clojure.core/+
19:25	bbloom	'clojure.core/+ is a symbol
19:25	bbloom	#'clojure.core/+ is a var
19:25	bbloom	,(resolve 'clojure.core/+)
19:25	clojurebot	#'clojure.core/+
19:25	bbloom	,(deref #'clojure.core/+)
19:25	clojurebot	#<core$_PLUS_ clojure.core$_PLUS_@131f3e1>
19:26	bbloom	deref == @ btw,
19:26	bbloom	,@#'clojure.core/+
19:26	clojurebot	#<core$_PLUS_ clojure.core$_PLUS_@131f3e1>
19:26	Glenjamin	so #' is the opposite of @?
19:26	bbloom	a symbol is a name, a var is a named place
19:26	bbloom	Glenjamin: no
19:27	bbloom	@ means deref, which means "get the current value at a given place"
19:27	bbloom	think of it like dereferencing a pointer in C, only it's a more powerful pointer that can implement arbitrary dereferencing logic
19:27	bbloom	vars are references, but so are delays, promises, atoms, agents, etc
19:28	Glenjamin	i see
19:30	kmicu	it turns blue
19:40	bosie_	anyone got an idea how to calculate the 2 points where the radius of two center points are crossing?
19:44	amalloy	wikipedia, or http://math.stackexchange.com/
19:45	danneu	bosie_: if you have equation of two circles, you equate them to eachother and find the values of the variables that make the expressions equivalent
19:46	bosie_	amalloy: thought the intellectual crowd in here might know ;)
19:46	danneu	oh nevermind, you arent asking the 7th grade geometry question i thought you were
19:46	danneu	damn, thought i could finally answer a question in this channel
19:46	bosie_	danneu: haha. dont give up quite yet ;)
19:47	ivan	http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Circle-CircleIntersection.html
19:47	bosie_	ivan: ah, intersection. no wonder i didn't find anything
19:48	danneu	is this idiomatic clojure indentation https://gist.github.com/danneu/5154e5ef758a9eef2180
19:48	bosie_	thx ivan
19:48	danneu	"conventional" rather
19:50	powr-toc	danneu: looks ok to me
19:50	powr-toc	danneu: at least that's how emacs indents it :-)
19:55	bosie_	ivan: that is a really neat trick. thx
19:56	ivan	np
19:57	tieTYT2	i think i'm doing something wrong here: (defn post-map-to-html [{post-link :post-link image-links :image-links} post-map] (map #(post-and-image-to-html-link post-link %) image-links))
19:57	tieTYT2	when I call that function it says ArityException Wrong number of args (1) passed to: core$post-map-to-html clojure.lang.AFn.throwArity (AFn.java:437)
19:57	tieTYT2	but i thought i'm defining a function here with one parameter that's a map and it gets destructured
20:02	amalloy	that function takes two args, and destructures the first
20:02	tieTYT2	so I need to remove the post-map keyword?
20:02	tieTYT2	err symbol
20:03	danneu	yeah
20:03	tieTYT2	ok
20:03	tieTYT2	i'm really confused because all the examples I see here seem to do what I did: http://blog.jayfields.com/2010/07/clojure-destructuring.html
20:03	tieTYT2	oh right... he's using a let
20:03	tieTYT2	ok I get it now, thanks
20:04	danneu	tieTYT2: btw shortcut for {a :a b :b} is {:keys [a b]}
20:04	tieTYT2	ok thanks
20:07	tieTYT2	how do I define a symbol to be the value of a function evaluation so that it doesn't evaluate over and over again each time I use the symbol?
20:07	tieTYT2	(my function uses an http client)
20:12	jtoy_	:(
20:13	_ft_	tieTYT2, this may be useful: http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/memoize
20:15	amalloy	tieTYT2: you have described the primary feature of 'let
20:25	jtoy_	can anyone help me get this metaprogrammign working: https://www.refheap.com/paste/12879
20:26	jtoy_	bbloom: im close, i read what you said, but not sure still how to do it properly
20:30	tieTYT2	_ft_: sounds like memoize is for something that's referentially transparent, which my function isn't
20:30	tieTYT2	amalloy: ok I'll use a let, I think I understand how
20:35	gfredericks	jtoy_: you want the effect to be as if (defn foo [] (+ 4 5))?
20:36	john2x	how do I use non-Datomic datastore with Pedestal?
20:36	bttf	if I have ((fn [x] (:foo x) {:foo "bar"}) ... is '(:foo x)' calling a function built into keywords ?
20:37	bttf	missing a parenthesis in there
20:37	amalloy	bttf: that's an odd way to phrase it, but basically correct
20:37	jtoy_	gfredericks: yes
20:38	gfredericks	jtoy_: your third argument to intern could be (fn [] (bar (resolve (:extractor x))))
20:39	bttf	i meant to say that it is calling a function that every keyword has by default .. how would phrase it amalloy ?
20:39	gfredericks	bttf: the keyword _is_ a function
20:39	amalloy	bttf: keywords don't have functions, they are functions
20:39	bttf	ah right
20:45	jtoy_	gfredericks: like this? https://www.refheap.com/paste/12880 doesnt seem to work for me
20:47	gfredericks	jtoy_: ah, yeah because the extractor is a string
20:47	gfredericks	wrap it in a call to symbol to convert it before resolve
20:48	gfredericks	(-> x :extractor symbol resolve bar) would be a more readable version
20:48	amalloy	barf
20:48	jtoy_	amalloy: useful
20:49	gfredericks	amalloy: the ruby people will never respect us if we can't learn to programmatically intern vars willy-nilly
20:49	jtoy_	hah, im a metaprogramming ruby master :)
20:49	amalloy	gfredericks: i'm not even complaining about the interning (though i hate that too), just that awful arrow form. fewer parens doesn't mean more readability
20:50	gfredericks	amalloy: it's more the not-backwards part
20:50	Raynes	jtoy_: Which is equivalent to being the drunk that can piss the farthest.
20:50	amalloy	if i had to write something that macroexpands the same, i'd write maybe something like (bar (resolve (-> x :extractor symbol)))
20:50	jtoy_	and I love metaprogramming in ruby, especially method_missing which clojure doesnt seem to have
20:51	gfredericks	yeah I wonder why rich forgot that
20:51	jtoy_	Raynes: Its actually getting late for me and i started drinking already, im sure it will be fine once i look at it again tomorrow
20:51	Raynes	gfredericks: You'll learn this about amalloy: he pulls -> forms out of his ass and decides at random which ways look the best. You'll never win unless you have him write it for you in the first place and then agree with him.
20:51	gfredericks	Raynes: yeah I didn't see any way forward in the discussion
20:53	gfredericks	jtoy_: has somebody already told you that macros are used for 99% of clojure metaprogramming (rather than dynamically creating vars)?
20:53	jtoy_	gfredericks: no, im open to try that, but i still want the vars to be created
20:56	gfredericks	jtoy_: what's the use case?
21:10	Glenjamin	is there a shorthand for defining a private macro?
21:11	gfredericks	no
21:13	hyPiRion	you have to make a macro for that
21:13	hyPiRion	heh.
21:13	Raynes	(defmacro ^:private foo [] ..)
21:13	hyPiRion	Raynes: I think he meant anonymous
21:13	Raynes	There should really not be any macros for it at all given the new ^ syntax.
21:14	Raynes	He didn't say anonymous.
21:14	amalloy	hyPiRion: wat. bet you a million dollars?
21:14	Raynes	He said nothing to remotely indicate anonymous, in fact.
21:14	Glenjamin	Raynes: ah, i tried that in the repo, but now realise i had a typo >.<
21:14	gfredericks	I bet all of you that he meant symbol macros
21:14	Glenjamin	^:private is what i was after :)
21:14	Raynes	hyPiRion: Go to your room.
21:15	hyPiRion	I thought he meant something like Common Lisp's macrolet
21:15	tomoj	wat ##(map conj {:foo 3 :bar 4} [5 6])
21:15	lazybot	⇒ ([:foo 3 5] [:bar 4 6])
21:15	hyPiRion	Raynes: I will
21:16	amalloy	tomoj: (seq {:foo 4 :bar 4}) makes it pretty obvious?
21:16	dnolen	tomoj: looks right to me.
21:16	Glenjamin	what does ## do?
21:16	Glenjamin	where is all of this stuff written down :(
21:16	dnolen	Glenjamin: eval sexp in lazybot
21:16	Glenjamin	oh, haha
21:16	tomoj	yes, it looks right, I just didn't know
21:16	Glenjamin	thought it was yet another reader macro
21:16	Raynes	I'm always baffled that people don't realize that immediately. :p
21:16	hyPiRion	Glenjamin: It's the same a &\| (println 'foo) \|&, but without an ending delimiter
21:16	lazybot	⇒ foo nil
21:16	tomoj	I mean I didn't know map entries were IPersistentVector
21:17	hyPiRion	I think they are MapEntries.
21:17	amalloy	hyPiRion: yes, which are IPV
21:17	Raynes	Which are a lot like vectors.
21:17	tomoj	yes, that is what I meant by "map entry"
21:17	hyPiRion	,(-> {:a :b} (find :a) class)
21:17	clojurebot	clojure.lang.MapEntry
21:17	Raynes	Yall's brains are gonna explode in unison now.
21:18	tomoj	that conj on a map expects a vector, not a map entry, and that map entries print as vectors both should have suggested that map entries were vectors, but I only realized it after noticing clojure.tools.macro use vector? to catch the map entry case
21:19	gfredericks	what's weird to me is that you can conj a map onto a map
21:20	hyPiRion	I think that's one of the weirder things, yeah.
21:20	Raynes	http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbqg5q5V6l1riuh2bo1_400.gif
21:20	amalloy	it's weird because it's awful
21:20	hyPiRion	,(map (partial conj {:a :b}) [[:c :d] {:c :d}])
21:20	clojurebot	({:c :d, :a :b} {:c :d, :a :b})
21:21	Glenjamin	,(conj {:a :b} [:c :d])
21:21	clojurebot	{:c :d, :a :b}
21:21	Glenjamin	bah, beat me to it
21:21	gfredericks	,(conj {:a :b} [1 2 3])
21:21	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Vector arg to map conj must be a pair>
21:21	hyPiRion	Well, the first one is an entry, the last one is the oddity.
21:24	tomoj	https://www.refheap.com/paste/eb652b8816d71997fa052e5db
21:25	tomoj	..and (= (clojure.lang.MapEntry. :foo 1) [:foo 1])
21:25	jjttjj	f
21:26	hyPiRion	,(== 0.0M 0.00M)
21:26	clojurebot	false
21:26	hyPiRion	It's all these small funny things.
21:27	gfredericks	,(= 0.0M 0.00M)
21:27	clojurebot	false
21:27	tomoj	I'd like a val? and val= such that (val= a b) implies, uh (val= (f a) (f b)) for 'pure' f?
21:28	tomoj	I think.. is that possible in clojure?
21:29	gfredericks	probably depends wth you mean by "pure"
21:29	tomoj	well I should have just left the scare-quotes off
21:30	amalloy	tomoj: certainly possible in a number of uninteresting ways
21:30	tomoj	but I guess that would basically be 'same type and =', which sucks
21:30	Glenjamin	if f is pure
21:30	Glenjamin	you can just call it :p
21:30	Glenjamin	by definition there are no ill effects
21:31	tomoj	f was supposed to be universally quantified
21:32	hyPiRion	Glenjamin: Well, you're kind of stuck if (f a) -> a', and (f a') -> a though.
21:32	amalloy	actually, the only val= i can think of for which this works is (constantly false) or (constantly true)
21:32	tomoj	obviously my requirements were not complete :)
21:33	tomoj	generally I'm just wondering how you reason about (= (f a) (f b)) given (= a b)
21:33	tomoj	..and the types of a and b?
21:34	tomoj	I mean, conj is one landmine, given (and (= x1 x2) (vector? x1)), are there a bunch of landmines all over the place, or very few?
21:36	arrdem	bbloom: very well.... I think I have an idea for solving a subset of the expression problem.
21:36	amalloy	conj, pop, peek, class, seq?, vector?, empty...those are functions i can think of off the top of my head that will be landmines there
21:36	tomoj	well, given f #(conj m %), (and (= x1 x2) (every vector? x1))
21:36	amalloy	get, find, contains?...
21:37	arrdem	ah contains?
21:38	tomoj	I guess it's better than only being able to ask = for same-typed values
21:42	tomoj	the equality partitions from clojure.data.diff help but still don't clear all mines, right?
21:42	tomoj	vector? etc being considered irrelevant..
22:02	Glenjamin	is anyone aware of a clojure/java lib similar to https://github.com/jugyo/notify (cross platform desktop notifications)
22:30	yacin	if i have a string of a form e.g., "(1 2 3)", how can i convert it to the form? i.e. so it's like '(1 2 3)
22:30	yacin	and i can use the usual conj/first/etc. on it?
22:32	yacin	nvm, figured it out
22:36	danneu	yacin: what was it
22:38	yacin	,(load-string "'(1 2 3)")
22:38	clojurebot	#<Exception java.lang.Exception: SANBOX DENIED>
22:38	yacin	ah well that makes sense
22:38	yacin	but yeah, load-string
22:39	zakwilson	Is there a good way to get the last thing inserted with korma?
22:40	groovy2shoes	,(read-string "(1 2 3)")
22:40	clojurebot	(1 2 3)
22:40	groovy2shoes	yacin ^
22:42	yacin	thanks
22:43	groovy2shoes	yacin: even better to use read-string from clojure.edn if you're trying to read arbitrary strings
22:44	yacin	ah interesting. thanks again
22:44	groovy2shoes	yacin: http://clojure.github.com/clojure/clojure.edn-api.html (for reasons described in the comments here http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/read )
22:50	danneu	how would i go about finding out what opts i can pass into slurp? http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/slurp
22:51	danneu	like the available `:encoding`s supported
23:01	tieTYT2	i'm using windows 7 and cygwin. Every time I run "repl lein" it leaves behind a java.exe process and they just build up. Anyone know what's causing this?
23:03	tieTYT2	i quit with ctrl+C
23:03	groovy2shoes	danneu: looks like the supported encodings are whatever encodings your JVM supports... I'd imagine Oracle's supports many
23:03	ivan	tieTYT2: perhaps mintty's inability to handle most windows programs properly
23:03	ivan	combined with lein's spawning of a second java
23:05	seangrove	clojurebot: ping
23:05	clojurebot	PONG!
23:05	seangrove	clojurebot: lastseen aphyr
23:05	clojurebot	Cool story bro.
23:05	seangrove	$seen aphyr
23:05	lazybot	aphyr was last seen talking on #riemann 6 hours and 20 minutes ago.
23:07	ivan	(I've seen a lot of mintty problems including child processes not getting killed, or mintty locking up, also with non-cygwin Python)
23:07	tieTYT2	ivan: any suggestion to help with this?
23:07	tieTYT2	if i could kill all java processes with a cygwin command that'd be enough for me
23:07	groovy2shoes	yeah, mintty has problems with non-Cygwin anything, in my experience
23:08	ivan	tieTYT2: install procps in the cygwin package list and use pkill to kill all the javas
23:09	tieTYT2	ok thanks
23:09	ivan	alternatively use conhost instead of mintty and use clink to alleviate some of the conhost pain
23:09	ivan	more seriously linux
23:10	tieTYT2	ok thanks
23:11	technomancy	tieTYT2: typically ctrl-d is the way you cleanly exit from a repl
23:11	technomancy	or (System/exit 0)
23:12	groovy2shoes	ctrl-z on Windows
23:12	groovy2shoes	even in mintty, when using stock Windows Java
23:15	groovy2shoes	technomancy: it's funny that I remember it now, but as soon as I try to leave a repl inside mintty, I try ctrl-d a couple times before I remember Windows is weird
23:15	groovy2shoes	old habits die hard
23:16	ivan	you could autohotkey that ;)
23:16	groovy2shoes	I'll look into it... I have a feeling my employer would frown on that...