#clojure – 2013-03-08

2013-03-08

00:00	n_b	and I assume that means last is eager as well?
00:03	alandipert	n_b: correct
00:05	jeremyheiler	Heh. It looks like peek and first + rseq pretty much do the same thing internally.
00:13	RazWelles	Anyone know what this is? -> ArgumentTypeException expected EventHandler`1, got EventHandler .CallSite.Target (:0)
00:18	seangrove	I can't get lein to run a project on my server, works locally though
00:19	seangrove	Running `lein trampoline with-profile prod run -m zenbox.realtime.worker/start-working` gives an error: "Exception in thread "main" java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: zenbox.realtime.worker/start-working"
00:19	seangrove	I'm pretty damn certain it's there
00:20	hiredman	seangrove: have tried to load that namespace from the repl?
00:21	seangrove	let me see
00:21	hiredman	most likely there is some error in it, and lein is helpfully trying to run it multiple different ways and failing
00:22	seangrove	Seems like it's working: this is from `lein repl` zenbox.server=> (require 'zenbox.realtime.worker)
00:22	seangrove	WARNING: list already refers to: #'clojure.core/list in namespace: chinpu.export, being replaced by: #'chinpu.export/list
00:22	seangrove	Mar 7, 2013 9:23:34 PM com.mchange.v2.log.MLog <clinit>
00:22	seangrove	INFO: MLog clients using java 1.4+ standard logging.
00:22	seangrove	WARNING: read already refers to: #'clojure.core/read in namespace: taika.core, being replaced by: #'taika.core/read
00:22	seangrove	Mar 7, 2013 9:23:35 PM clojure.tools.logging$eval117$fn__123 invoke
00:22	seangrove	WARNING: (:mailchimp :webhook-url) isn't a valid config
00:22	seangrove	Resque configuration: {:host nil, :port 6379, :namespace "resque:Zenbox", :max-workers 20}
00:22	seangrove	WARNING: test already refers to: #'clojure.core/test in namespace: zenbox.realtime.worker, being replaced by: #'zenbox.realtime.worker/test
00:23	seangrove	sorry, paste vs kill ring...
00:23	seangrove	Meant to paste https://www.refheap.com/paste/90df986fde178710c065edf40
00:23	seangrove	Which is obviously redundant after flooding :P
00:25	seangrove	Any reason why it would think the class isn't there?
00:26	seangrove	And for some reason, it works locally, but not on a remote server
00:27	hiredman	and when you run start-working?
00:28	seangrove	Trying on the server now...
00:30	seangrove	ah, yes, I see an error now
00:31	seangrove	thanks hiredman, I think it comes down to a :source-paths config in project.clj
01:40	danneu1	/quit
01:40	pppaul	no
01:40	pppaul	(quit)
01:44	frozenlock	Is there an idiomatic way to get a random element from a collection?
01:44	frozenlock	I was thinking (nth coll (rand (count coll))), but it feels kinda icky.
01:45	frozenlock	Oh...
01:45	frozenlock	nvm...
01:45	frozenlock	Thanks nrepl autocomplete :P
01:46	frozenlock	#(source rand-nth)
01:46	frozenlock	,(source rand-nth)
01:46	clojurebot	#<SecurityException java.lang.SecurityException: denied>
01:46	frozenlock	Damn you bot!
02:09	vurma	So, whats the best way to currently execute commandline processes from clojure?
02:10	vurma	Iv found some old blog posts, but i asked just to see if there is anything new on that front.
04:31	tomoj	hmm, when I try to get a browser repl now it seems to load itself recursively
04:36	tomoj	huh, went away
04:36	tomoj	I must have been doing something stupid
04:36	tomoj	hurray, in-ns works!
05:40	ro_st	is there a way i can lazily sort-by?
05:40	ro_st	i've got a 300 map seq which i'm using sort-by on, with a depth of three sort keys
05:41	ro_st	and it's taking 12 seconds to sort
05:42	ro_st	oh, wait. a lazy seq is being passed to the sort. nevermind.
06:15	NeedMoreDesu	Can i REload .class files? I've tried using load with no success.
06:15	noidi	NeedMoreDesu, no
06:15	noidi	for that you'll need http://www.jrebel.com/
06:17	NeedMoreDesu	That's the only option? Commercial lib?
06:18	noidi	that's a limitation of the JVM
06:18	NeedMoreDesu	Which is somehow dealt with that lib?
06:19	pwned	they have a way of reloading classes in torquebox/jruby, perhaps they also support that in immutant/clojure
06:20	pwned	actually the reloaders are in sinatra and rails
06:20	pwned	in ruby you just call load to reload the class
06:21	tomoj	hmm, noone noticed that clojure.browser.dom spews logs to the console?
06:36	clgv	NeedMoreDesu: you could do something like that with classloader artistic ;)
06:37	clgv	NeedMoreDesu: you can use that lib as starting point https://github.com/flatland/classlojure
06:40	borkdude	question: does anyone ever use letfn instead of let?
06:42	cemerick	tomoj: always been like that AFAIK. Clearly just an experiment or something.
06:43	clgv	borkdude: only when definining only functions and more than one.
06:47	NeedMoreDesu	clgv: Wow, that's nice. I should try that.
06:49	corecode	is there a better idiom than (apply hash-map (mapcat fn hash))?
06:55	borkdude	corecode smth like this?
06:55	borkdude	,(zipmap (keys {:a 1 :b 2}) (map inc (vals {:a 1 :b 2})))
06:55	clojurebot	{:b 3, :a 2}
06:56	borkdude	corecode you can also use into here: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1676891/mapping-a-function-on-the-values-of-a-map-in-clojure
06:57	noidi	into + for is a very common idiom
06:58	corecode	yea
06:58	corecode	i noticed
06:59	corecode	in the end i used ->>, map, into
07:00	corecode	is there something like #(->> % ...)? something that will take the passed arguments and apply in sequence? comp is close, but doesn't allow for partial functions
07:19	NeedMoreDesu	clgv: Yeah, I can have new clojure in clojure now. Bad thing, is that they don't reload inside classlojres.
07:20	clgv	NeedMoreDesu: my idea was that you do reloading by using a new classlojure with the same classpath - this way you should end up with the most recent class
07:21	clgv	NeedMoreDesu: and you always eval in the current classlojure...
07:22	NeedMoreDesu	clgv: Yeah, that sounds like it can work that way.
07:22	NeedMoreDesu	But I'm afraid of one thing: is it gc'd right?
07:24	NeedMoreDesu	I'll try to loop to check this out.
07:24	clgv	NeedMoreDesu: humm, that boils down to the question whether a classloader that is not referenced anymore gets gc'ed with all its classes and objects...
07:24	jcrossley3	NeedMoreDesu: you might look at Byteman as an open-source alternative to jrebel: http://www.jboss.org/byteman
07:24	jcrossley3	not exactly the same, but possibly helpful
07:24	NeedMoreDesu	OutOfMemoryError PermGen space java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass1 (ClassLoader.java:-2)
07:25	tomoj	is there some way not to have all the internal protocol fns in cljs.core?
07:25	clgv	NeedMoreDesu: humm? what exactly did you do?
07:25	tomoj	I guess I mean, not to have them auto-referred in all user namespaces
07:25	NeedMoreDesu	(loop [l 50000] (eval-in (classlojure "file:/D:/end06/cloj-reload/target/the.jar") '(do (load "/tratata") (eval 'tratata/nya))) (if (< 0 l) (recur (- l 1))))
07:27	clgv	ok, you do not hold references to them in this code explicitely. does it work with a (System/gc) in every iteration?
07:32	NeedMoreDesu	clgv: nope, it still hits the memory limit.
07:34	clgv	NeedMoreDesu: hhmm its pretty likely that you need to remove the classloader from its parent
07:34	NeedMoreDesu	Maybe thats because (System/gc) is not forcing gc, and it dies as soon as it have no memory.
07:34	NeedMoreDesu	Huh, how do I do that?
07:35	NeedMoreDesu	But well, no, it's not late gc problem.
07:36	clgv	NeedMoreDesu: classlojure.core/ext-classloader is the parent
07:37	ro_st	is there a clojure core fn that does this? (fn [bool] (if bool 1 0))
07:38	clgv	ro_st: dont think so
07:38	clgv	$findfn true 1
07:38	clgv	$findfn false 0
07:38	lazybot	[]
07:38	lazybot	[]
07:38	ro_st	thanks
07:38	clgv	&(clojure-version)
07:38	lazybot	⇒ "1.4.0"
07:40	NeedMoreDesu	clgv: So I need to write something to remove it from the parent? Is that possible?
07:41	clgv	NeedMoreDesu: I dont know. afaik you might be forced to write a classloader yourself that can remove its children. but that is just guessing...
07:41	clgv	NeedMoreDesu: what is your exact use case?
07:42	clgv	clojure's dynamicclassloader allows redefinition of classes which is used for deftype and such...
07:43	clgv	NeedMoreDesu: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/148681/unloading-classes-in-java
07:43	NeedMoreDesu	I want to have some extension points in code, and to be able to hot-update those.
07:44	clgv	and the extensions are provided by java classes and not clojure files?
07:44	NeedMoreDesu	By .class files.
07:44	NeedMoreDesu	Yes, .clj would be easy.
07:44	clgv	clojure files would have been trivial ;)
07:45	llasram	You can't ever really replace a Java class -- just load a new one with the same name
07:46	clgv	llasram: right. you notice that when your previous deftype instances don't work anymore after reloading the namespace with the deftype^^
07:47	llasram	Or at least you can't without doing especially crazy stuff. I think there are some commercial dev-oriented tools for hot-patching code in a running JVM
07:47	llasram	clgv: Ah, right. I should read more than a few lines of context before piping up
07:53	NeedMoreDesu	Hm, maybe I need to read classlojure code closely to find out what can be done.
07:55	clgv	NeedMoreDesu: I think you need the own classloader that can remove its child classloaders. then you could put that one between classlojure.core/ext-classloader and the classloaders created by classlojure
07:56	clgv	NeedMoreDesu: but what llasram said remains true, existing objects wont be hot-patched and not even accessible in the new classlojure classloader
07:59	NeedMoreDesu	Yeah. I've just tested that. eval-in returns strings.
07:59	clgv	NeedMoreDesu: huh?
08:00	NeedMoreDesu	(eval-in (classlojure "file:/D:/end06/cloj-reload/target/the.jar") '(do (load "/tratata") tratata/nya)) returns "#<tratata$nya tratata$nya@d81e23>"
08:01	clgv	NeedMoreDesu: ah ok they implemented that to work around the issue that you cannot return custom classes...
08:01	clgv	but you can serialize resultdata to string^^
08:01	NeedMoreDesu	lol
08:09	clgv	NeedMoreDesu: well, it seems as if classlojure serializes to string and reads from it again if possible
08:16	NeedMoreDesu	clgv: suddenly: (eval-in (classlojure "file:/D:/end06/cloj-reload/target/the.jar") '(do +) 1 2 3) => 6
08:18	kittylyst	Am having trouble with a restructuring form:
08:18	kittylyst	(defn map-from-httpd-logline [l]
08:18	kittylyst	(for [[full ip j1 j2 datetime req retcode size] (re-seq logline-regex l)]
08:18	kittylyst	(let [[f2 base params] (re-seq uri-regex req)] {:f2 f2 :ip ip :datetime datetime :req req :retcode retcode :size size :uri-base base :uuid ()})))
08:19	kittylyst	base ends up null, and f2 ends up with the entire vector
08:19	kittylyst	Any ideas what I'm doing wrong?
08:21	stuartsierra	kittylyst: Check that the return value of `re-seq` is what you think it is.
08:22	kittylyst	Aha! So it is returning a vector, and needs to be wrapped in an (nth)
08:22	kittylyst	s/vector/lazy seq/
08:23	stuartsierra	You may want `re-find` instead of `re-seq`.
08:30	kittylyst	stuartsierra: That's cleaned it up a bunch - thx. Good to see you btw.
08:31	stuartsierra	kittylyst: Same to you
08:35	NeedMoreDesu	clgv: (loop [] (let [^URLClassLoader cl (url-classloader ["file:/D:/end06/cloj-reload/target/the.jar"] ext-classloader)] (.loadClass cl "clojure.lang.RT") (eval-in* cl '(+ 2 3 4))) (System/gc) (recur)) -- (eval-in* cl '(+ 2 3 4)) is causing memory leaks
08:36	NeedMoreDesu	And there was '(require 'clojure.main) there
08:36	clgv	NeedMoreDesu: that was what I was talking about. you need an own classloader to be able to remove "old" classloaders you do not need anymore...
08:37	NeedMoreDesu	It works totally fine without that eval
08:37	NeedMoreDesu	No leaks
08:37	clgv	NeedMoreDesu: hence the initial comment of "classloader artistry" ;)
08:38	clgv	NeedMoreDesu: the "leak" is due to the fact that you do not remove that classloader from the classloader tree
08:39	NeedMoreDesu	When is it added there?
08:39	clgv	NeedMoreDesu: I am interested in this as well. but I have no spare time in the next days...
08:40	NeedMoreDesu	Oh, ok, sorry.
08:40	clgv	NeedMoreDesu: it is added in the `url-classloader` call
08:40	NeedMoreDesu	clgv, yet its totally ok to (loop [] (let [^URLClassLoader cl (url-classloader ["file:/D:/end06/cloj-reload/target/the.jar"] ext-classloader)] (.loadClass cl "clojure.lang.RT")) (System/gc) (recur))
08:41	NeedMoreDesu	It loops with no leaks.
08:43	clgv	NeedMoreDesu: thats because nothing is done. when you write it like that the class clojure.lang.RT is already loaded
08:48	clgv	NeedMoreDesu: hmm forget that last statement. it is loading the RT class
09:14	ambrosebs	Does this chrismgray happen to be around? https://github.com/chrismgray
09:14	ambrosebs	In the chat I mean.
09:17	corecode	should i be using (line-seq (java.io.BufferedReader. in)) or (iterate read-line)?
09:31	stuartsierra	corecode: I don't think it matters.
09:32	stuartsierra	But eventually you'll run into trouble if you're trying to read STDIN during a REPL session.
09:32	corecode	yea
09:48	jcromartie	someone help me stop overthinking everything
09:48	jcromartie	I just want a simple web API that keeps state in memory and writes it to disk when it changes
09:48	jcromartie	so, let me think out loud here
09:48	jcromartie	I'll have a web namespace, a data namespace, with top-level vars holding refs for the things that change?
09:49	jcromartie	where to put the refs, should I pass them explicitly to the functions that add/remove/update the data model?
09:49	jcromartie	should I just rely on bindings?
09:49	jcromartie	I don't want to be a pure-functional weenie
09:50	stuartsierra	Step One: no top-level Vars.
09:50	stuartsierra	Pass the refs through your entire application.
10:03	solussd	could someone tell me why (binding [ns (create-ns 'another.namespace)] (defn blah [x] (println "hi"))) doesn't define another.namespace/blah, but instead adds it to my current namespace?
10:04	stuartsierra	All `def` forms use the ns binding in effect when they were read, not when they were evaluated.
10:04	stuartsierra	If you want to create Vars in another namespace, use the `intern` function.
10:04	solussd	ah, thanks a lot.
10:04	stuartsierra	np
10:15	NeedMoreDesu	clgv: http://www.everfall.com/paste/id.php?ksikmr2fd38y thats where I'm now. I've dug those things and found out that commented line causes memory leak.
10:17	jtoy	is there a way i can see what version of library is loaded?
10:18	jtoy	or does lein 1.x automatically install a newer version if i just do lein repl ?
10:19	NeedMoreDesu	Definetely no, because you can use old features.
10:21	jtoy	i founde some really f*cked up clojure/json issue, when i load some certain json with chesire, it interprets the data as an integer
10:21	stuartsierra	jtoy: With Leiningen 2.x you can call `lein deps :tree`. There was a plugin for that in lein 1 I think.
10:22	jtoy	stuartsierra: hmm, I just did lein repl and it installed the newer dependencies, weird
10:22	stuartsierra	jtoy: Are they -SNAPSHOTs? Those get updated automatically.
10:24	solussd	stuartsierra: is it possible to associate metadata with the var that is created with intern? If I use meta instead of defn I'd still like to associate a docstring in the var metadata
10:24	jtoy	stuartsierra: my project has snapshot in it: "1.0.0-SNAPSHOT" but I jsut changed [cheshire "4.0.0"] to [cheshire "5.0.2"]
10:24	stuartsierra	solussd: Yes, see the docstring of `intern`.
10:25	stuartsierra	jtoy: So when you change the dependency, Leiningen downloads it the next time it runs.
10:26	jtoy	stuartsierra: thanks for the explanation
10:26	stuartsierra	np
10:27	solussd	stuartsierra: thanks again- i misunderstood the first time I read the doc. :)
10:27	stuartsierra	np
10:30	jtoy	I need to do type checking for some of my data, bc im finding bad data coming into my system, is it idiomatic to be doing (= (type data) clojure.lang.PersistentArrayMap) ?
10:31	jtoy	the data is coming from cheshire json, sometimes I get bad json and cheshire parses it as an integer instead
10:31	stuartsierra	jtoy: You can usually use predicates like `list?` and `map?` more easily.
10:32	jtoy	stuartsierra: yes, a lot more concise, thx
10:45	clgv	NeedMoreDesu: humm afair thread local data could be the problem - there should be initialized thread local bindings when you load clojure
10:48	clgv	NeedMoreDesu: http://immutant.org/news/2012/05/18/runtime-isolation/
10:50	solussd	does anyone know what happened to clojure.core/protocol?
10:54	clgv	solussd: you mean defprotocol?
10:56	solussd	clgv: no, the predicate "protocol?", which tested if something was a protocol
10:57	clgv	solussd: did no know that it existed
10:58	tomoj	with the current protocol impl, that would be a very odd predicate
10:58	solussd	tomoj: did the implementation recently change?
10:58	tomoj	since a protocol is just a hash-map from clojure code
10:58	tomoj	I dunno
10:58	solussd	CompilerException java.lang.IllegalStateException: var: clojure.core/protocol? is not public
10:58	solussd	still there.. just can't use it. :/
10:58	tomoj	(boolean (:on-interface maybe-p))
10:59	tomoj	like I said, very strange
10:59	tomoj	there's a reason it's private :)
10:59	solussd	i wondered about doing that, but it probably wouldnt work in clojurescript, given the lack of interfaces
10:59	tomoj	(that is the implementation of protocol? btw)
11:00	solussd	but they took it away from me! I was using it
11:00	algernon	it never was public, as far as I can see in git history
11:00	solussd	interesting.. I have some macros that do different things based on whether you pass them a protocol or otherwise.
11:00	solussd	even more interesting... wonder how I was ever using it. :/
11:00	tomoj	those macros sound evil
11:00	tomoj	maybe I misunderstand
11:01	solussd	it's a conspiracy- the clojure.core team is rewriting [git] history!
11:01	solussd	tomoj: they're not, let me assure you. :)
11:01	clgv	solussd: dont they use signed commits?
11:01	tomoj	you resolve the symbol yourself and check if it's a protocol?
11:01	solussd	no more evil than the 'defrecord' macro or 'extend-protocol' or 'extend-type'
11:02	solussd	clgv no idea, I was just kidding
11:03	tomoj	they don't use protocol?
11:03	tomoj	extend does, which is a function, not a macro
11:04	tomoj	oh, do you mean you just call protocol? in the code the macro expands to?
11:07	borkdude	Isn't this old news on hackernews about the clojure reader
11:11	mpfundstein	is it possible to tell lein/clojure which java sdk to use? i have boht installed jdk 1.7 and 1.8 and need to use 1.8 for some project while 1.7 for another
11:12	nDuff	borkdude: Yes, very -- that's why we have EDN.
11:14	trptcolin	mpfundstein: you can set the environment variable JAVA_CMD
11:15	trptcolin	afaik it's not possible to specify in project.clj - it'd be a bootstrapping problem
11:17	jcromartie	stuartsierra said, a while back, that I should pass the refs through the app, and not have any top-level vars
11:17	jcromartie	but what about a web app, where the request only has the context of what came into the server?
11:17	jcromartie	surely I would have to "inject" the right refs into my functions inside the handler
11:18	jcromartie	but it does make sense… so, lilke, (defn add-foo [db foo] (dosync (alter db conj foo)))
11:19	jcromartie	and in the future, if db is an actual DB spec, I can change add-foo to do the relevant SQL calls
11:19	jcromartie	seems like a sane way to do it
11:20	jcromartie	and just use dynamic bindings around the handlers to access the refs?
11:20	danneu	what's the most popular way to generate sql with clojure?
11:20	jcromartie	i.e. (GET "/foos" [] (get-all-foos db))
11:21	tomoj	you can't really extend a protocol to functions
11:22	tomoj	:(
11:22	nDuff	Hrm.
11:23	papachan	if i do (def n (25)) (println (/ n 2)) my output result is 25/2
11:23	papachan	why not my result?
11:24	nDuff	papachan: That _is_ your result. If you want to cast it to a float, you need to do that explicitly.
11:24	papachan	nDuff thank you
11:24	tomoj	https://www.refheap.com/paste/94cd84ee74f05fed4e634b9a9
11:24	papachan	is there a math.ceil o math floor in cloj?
11:24	nDuff	,(type (/ 25 2))
11:24	clojurebot	clojure.lang.Ratio
11:25	nDuff	,(java.lang.Math/ceil (/ 25 2))
11:25	clojurebot	13.0
11:25	papachan	clojure.lang.Ratio
11:26	papachan	waow, clojurebot is the repl here in irc?
11:26	borkdude	papachan I tend to use ##(int 132.32)
11:26	lazybot	⇒ 132
11:26	NeedMoreDesu	clgv: thats integesting. I think I should have a look on their project.
11:26	tomoj	oh, and functions with metadata always apply in cljs..
11:27	clgv	NeedMoreDesu: unluckily they do not seem to use the removeThreadLocal function they define...
11:28	corecode	i'm trying to learn clj by processing some data i have, but it is being really slow (compared to a ruby implementation). could somebody give me some feedback on how to improve the code? https://gist.github.com/5117660
11:28	solussd	tomoj: yeah< i just call protocol? in the expansion
11:31	NeedMoreDesu	clgv: isn't using their runtime is enough?
11:31	clgv	NeedMoreDesu: probably not since they are doing something quite similar to classlojure...
11:31	llasram	corecode: Monolithic contrib is dead post version 1.2, which is ancient by this point. You should be able to just use (line-seq in) though
11:32	tomoj	solussd: so hopefully it's not reasonable to pass a non-protocol map with :on-interface key to that function?
11:32	corecode	llasram: fair enough.
11:32	tomoj	/macro-missing-a-function
11:32	clgv	NeedMoreDesu: but you can try. let me know if you succeed
11:32	corecode	llasram: i doubt that's the cause for slowness tho
11:32	solussd	tomoj: yeah, it isnt-- I'm just nitpicking at this point. :)
11:32	tomoj	then I retract my 'evil' estimate
11:33	llasram	corecode: I somehow missed your mention of an apparent performance problem... How large is the dataset? Are you sure the slowness isn't just JVM startup time?
11:33	solussd	;)
11:33	corecode	llasram: 2 million lines
11:34	corecode	llasram: i couldn't wait for it to finish yet
11:35	corecode	llasram: i'm doing roughly 1000 lines per second, which is just way too slow
11:36	llasram	corecode: I'm not sure if this has performance implications, but is `:hosts` vs `names` a bug?
11:36	nDuff	Hrm.
11:36	corecode	ah i renamed stuff
11:36	corecode	:/
11:36	llasram	corecode: And FYI, `name` is the name of a `clojure.core` function. Aliasing works, but is a source of potential confusion/bugs
11:36	corecode	it was slow anyways
11:37	corecode	line-seq in doesn't work :/
11:38	fbernier	so, let's say I fall on a lib on github and I'd like to give it a quick try in the REPL, how is this possible?
11:39	fbernier	do I need to create a new project, add it as a dependency, lein deps, launch the repl, import it and use it?
11:40	tomoj	I note that prismatic's graph works by putting metadata on fns
11:40	tomoj	and relies on extending protocols to Fn
11:40	llasram	corecode: Is it a requirement to use in BTW? It's generally more common to operate on explicit file paths vs using stdin, although that may just be a side-effect of REPL-based development
11:41	blrm	fbernier: that is what I would do, yeah
11:41	corecode	llasram: not strictly
11:47	corecode	llasram: https://gist.github.com/5117884
11:47	corecode	llasram: still very slow :/
11:49	jweiss-afk	if i update a function in a var, i notice other functions calling it from partial do NOT use the new version, whereas functions calling it from #() or (fn ...) do get updated. why?
11:49	llasram	corecode: Hmm. I don't see anything obviously slow about the code :-/
11:51	llasram	jweiss: When you call partial, you pass the function as a value, which the returned function holds a reference to as a lexically-scoped local
11:52	llasram	jweiss: When you call the function via its var in an function created with fn (or #()), the new function references the original function via its var, which is updated with the new value on recompilation
11:52	papachan	oh my
11:53	ystael	llasram: is this ultimately a syntactic distinction between the head slot and other slots of an application form? or does it come from some other feature of the context?
11:54	jweiss	llasram: it was not at all obvious to me that fn used the var and not the value
11:54	corecode	llasram: odd, odd
11:55	jweiss	i think this totally reverses my preference for partial over fn. crap
11:55	jweiss	partial doesn't generate new classes when you precompile, so i thought that was good enough reason for me to use it
11:56	jweiss	but clearly it is less dynamic, i hadn't realized that
11:56	corecode	llasram: oh could it be that println is super slow?
11:56	llasram	ystael: Other. `partial` is a function, and when passed something as an argument, receives the value, which is what the created function has available to reference. `fn` is a special form (well, `fn*` is anyway), which creates a new JVM class, the code of which references everything resolving to vars via those vars
11:57	tomoj	symbol-macrolet with regexes. evil?
11:57	ystael	llasram: i see, thank you!
11:57	jweiss	arrggghh. why did it take me so long to realize this
11:57	llasram	corecode: It's possible. println -> prn -> pr -> print-method, which is a multimethod. Calling (.write out (str from-id " " to-id " " link-count "\n")) instead is something to try
11:58	corecode	i mean, that printing is in part just debugging
11:58	corecode	but i didn't realize it would be that slow
11:58	llasram	corecode: Oh. Hells yeah. IO is always slow. Especially in w/ strings Java vs other languages, because you always have UTF-16 -> whatever conversion
11:59	llasram	jweiss: You can always explicitly pass the var to partial: ##((partial #'+ 2) 2)
11:59	lazybot	⇒ 4
11:59	solussd	nothing is evil if 1. you know what you're doing, 2. it is the "best" way to do it- best defined by these three things, in this order: 1. reduces repetition in your codebase so changes in the future don't require hunting down a bunch of duplication, 2. follows idioms of the language, 3. is readable to user's of the language. ;; made up on the spot. :D
11:59	nDuff	Hrm. avout's setRef and alterRef don't handle transactions in RETRY state so well...
12:00	clgv	NeedMoreDesu: yourkit java profiler points to the thread local variables as well. I profiled that one: (loop [] (eval-in (classlojure "file:///home/gv/.m2/repository/org/clojure/clojure/1.3.0/clojure-1.3.0.jar") '(clojure-version)) (recur))
12:00	corecode	llasram: write is equally slow
12:00	corecode	interesting.
12:00	corecode	the read seems to be quick
12:00	jweiss	llasram: interesting, seems like most clojure programmers eschew partial, i liked it ... until now. i'll have to decide if using the var is uglier than just using fn or #()
12:01	solussd	i love partial and comp- I try to avoid anonymous functions when possible
12:01	TimMc	(:refer-clojure :rename {partial pl}) or somethign
12:02	llasram	corecode: out is a line-buffered PrintWriter... You could try writing to a file via a fully-buffered io/writer instead.
12:02	papachan	why i cannot pass arguments to my function through script args?
12:02	papachan	https://www.stypi.com/papachan/main.clj
12:03	corecode	llasram: i'll try that.
12:03	llasram	corecode: Now that you've mentioned it, I have noticed that writing to out has seemed to be slower than I'd expected in the past
12:03	corecode	it is incredibly slow
12:03	llasram	corecode: But I didn't investigate further
12:03	corecode	i bound flush-on-newline to false (dunno if that is the right way to do it)
12:03	tomoj	solussd: hmm, regex-based symbol macros certainly don't follow the idiom
12:03	corecode	but that didn't help either
12:04	solussd	that's the second requirement though. :D
12:04	tomoj	although datomic cares about the prefix of symbols in query data
12:04	tomoj	but that's just data..
12:05	tomoj	incidentally I think a regex symbol macrolet could let you get syntax quote for datomic queries without breaking vars?
12:28	jtoy	why can you only do 2 arguments?
12:28	jtoy	(if-let [x false y true] "then" "else")
12:28	corecode	llasram: yes, out seems to be extremely slow.
12:28	jtoy	and is there a better way to test with multiple variables? instead of multiple if-let's ?
12:29	technomancy	jtoy: there's never been consensus on whether the two logical values should be anded or ored together
12:31	jtoy	i want to do multiple lets where there next variables are bui previous, so that would be an and, can i still do that with one if-let ?
12:31	jtoy	my terminal looks messed up
12:31	jtoy	i dont think i can do it though
12:32	clgv	jtoy: just write your own `if-let-all` - then semantics are clear and you get what you want
12:33	TimMc	jtoy: https://github.com/timmc/handy/blob/develop/src/org/timmc/handy.clj#L8
12:33	jtoy	yeah, i will do that later, im not at the level where i feel comfortable writing my own macros
12:33	jtoy	nice TimMc
12:36	ivan	if-all-let should AND and if-any-let should OR
12:36	jtoy	ivan: agreed!
12:36	TimMc	I've never wanted if-any-let.
12:36	ivan	right. I suspect no one would use it.
12:41	frozenlo`	"HN: Clojure's Default Reader is Unsafe "http://www.learningclojure.com/2013/02/clojures-reader-is-unsafe.html#post-body-2898830171141471587
12:42	frozenlo`	Hey got #=ed :P
12:42	frozenlo`	Well, not a 'real' situation, but still.
12:43	solussd	could someone tell me why, on line 9 of this paste, x# cannot be resolved? (happens when you call the macro) https://www.refheap.com/paste/87d84be6d7ed8d1f3af54d677
12:44	Bronsa	solussd: lexical bindings don't work in defrecord/deftype AFAIK
12:45	cctennant	hey everyone, question about try/catch. I've got a try/catch around a cassandra cql statement execution inside compojure/ring. an (expected) exception gets thrown deep within netty, but I can't catch it — it appears to blow right past my (catch Throwable e) and shows up in my log file as a WARN: An exception was thrown by an exception handler.
12:45	solussd	well crap.
12:46	solussd	where is that documented. :P
12:46	Frozenlock	solussd: In #clojure, the official clojure doc.
12:47	Bronsa	solussd: "Note that method bodies are not closures, the local environment includes only the named fields, and those fields can be accessed directy."
12:48	Bronsa	in the docstring of defrecord
12:50	llasram	cctennant: Are you sure the exception is being thrown where you think it's being thrown from? Lazy sequences in particular can result in evaluation not actually occurring in the obvious lexical scope
12:51	cctennant	that's an excellent point. I have seen that before, with lazy seqs getting evaluated much later. in this case though I can see from the stack trace (which is getting dumped by something at WARN level) that the exception is happening where I think it is
12:52	cctennant	I went so far as to code this: (try
12:52	cctennant	(cql/execute-raw (str "use \"" keyspace "\""))
12:52	cctennant	(catch Throwable e (println "caught exception inside binding " e) (throw e)))
12:52	technomancy	async error handling is a nightmare =\
12:53	cctennant	the exception is getting thrown at the (cql/execute-raw.. line, from the stack trace. but that Throwable doesn't catch s..t.
12:54	mpenet	it's datastax driver? anyway it's very likely to be an encoding/decoding issue
12:55	cctennant	yeah. datastax with some mods, it's not quite ready from prime time yet. driver works great — app is working, I'm just having this problem here.
12:55	mpenet	cctennant: most of the times you're better off using prepared statements with this driver, it will handle the encoding stuff for you and prevent these kind of errors
12:55	mpenet	not to mention you dont pay for the query parsing everytime this way
12:56	mpenet	cctennant: shamless plug: check https://github.com/mpenet/alia , it handles error nicely in asyn mode at least (you can provide an error callback)
12:56	cctennant	sure, but that still doesn't explain why it's not catching the exception. surely that's a straight up clojure/java problem? an exception is being thrown, but it's not being caught. it shouldn't matter what's throwing the exception (which is actually a java.util.concurrent.RejectedExecutionException fwiw, again, expected)
12:56	llasram	cctennant: Hmm. Is the exception being thrown from the same thread?
12:57	cctennant	aha
12:57	cctennant	that may be it.
12:57	cctennant	netty and async io.
12:57	cctennant	doh.
12:58	cctennant	thank you.
12:58	corecode	llasram: https://gist.github.com/5118449
12:58	corecode	llasram: how does that look?
12:59	llasram	cctennant: eyes, bugs, shallow, etc
13:01	llasram	corecode: Did replacing out speed things up? Idiom-wise -- you rarely/never want to call functions in namespaces you haven't yourself `require`d; and although (doall (map ...)) works, arguably `doseq` would be more clear, expressing the side-effect only intent
13:02	corecode	llasram: yes, writing to a file is enormously faster
13:03	corecode	llasram: i just replaced it with dorun; how would i use it with doseq?
13:03	corecode	use (doseq [... (->> ...)] ...) ?
13:04	llasram	Exactly
13:04	corecode	that sort of inverts the logical flow of operation though
13:04	corecode	or at least rips it up
13:05	llasram	That's true. I caged with "arguably" :-). Using `dorun` is probably the way to go
13:05	corecode	yea
13:05	corecode	thanks
13:05	jtoy	what is the proper way to convert this data to numbers? (map #((Long. %)) ["123" "543"])
13:05	llasram	corecode: np. I'm glad you figured out the perf problem
13:06	TimMc	jtoy: Yo uhave tto many parens around the Long. constructor.
13:06	corecode	llasram: that's scary stuff. who would have thought that java stdout is so extremely slow?
13:06	llasram	jtoy: usually Long/parseLong
13:06	TimMc	And I have keyboard issues.
13:06	jtoy	what is the proper way to convert this data to numbers? (map #(Long. %) ["123" "543"])
13:06	corecode	using writer System.out does not help either
13:06	jtoy	I see, is it better to use parseLong or Long is fine?
13:07	neotyk	good morning everyone
13:07	llasram	corecode: Yeah... I'm not really sure where that would come from. files away to investigate in the future
13:09	TimMc	jtoy: People generally use parseLong.
13:10	llasram	jtoy: Depends on context... If you might be able to use a primitive, parseLong does return the primitive. Auto-boxing (or explicitly calling Long/valueOf instead) may introduce optimizations by making use of an implementation cache of Long objects frequently-used numbers
13:12	llasram	This may not be true, but at least naively, calling the Long. constructor directly will always yield an entirely new object
13:20	kencausey	Does it make sense that searching duckduckgo for clojurescipts returns https://github.com/emezeske/clojurescript/ as the canonical URL?
13:20	jcrossley3	Bronsa: why is aot compilation required for clojure.tools.reader?
13:20	kencausey	s/clojurescripts/clojurescript/
13:20	Bronsa	jcrossley3: clojure.tools.reader.impl.ExceptionInfo needed for clojure 1.3 compatibility
13:21	Bronsa	and that's the only namespace that needs to be AOT compiled actually
13:22	jcrossley3	but there are a lot more in there than that
13:22	jcrossley3	class files in the jar, i mean
13:27	Bronsa	jcrossley3: I don't think you can AOT compile only a namespace with maven like you can do in lein
13:29	Bronsa	jcrossley3: it looks like you actually can, I'll try to figure out how
13:29	jcrossley3	Bronsa: is aot the only option for 1.3 compat? could you reify j.l.Exception instead maybe?
13:29	Bronsa	Exception classes MUST get AOT compiled
13:30	Bronsa	mmh
13:30	hiredman	you cannot reify Exceptions
13:30	hiredman	Exceptions have no interfaces
13:30	hiredman	you have to gen-class
13:30	hiredman	jcrossley3: what version of clojure?
13:30	hiredman	have you looked at ex-info/ex-data ?
13:31	Bronsa	hiredman: he was asking regarding of my AOT compiling in tools.reader
13:31	hiredman	:(
13:31	hiredman	aot compiling libraries is horrible
13:32	hiredman	locks them to a single clojure abi
13:32	jcrossley3	yeah, i'd like to use tools.reader in immutant, but the aot classes are yielding strange errors in our runtime (which might support any version of clojure since 1.3)
13:32	Bronsa	that's the only way I can provide support for clojure 1.3 without giving up on ex-info/ex-data
13:32	jcrossley3	i need to dig in further. just trying to understand the reasoning behind them being there.
13:33	Bronsa	jcrossley3: I'll release another version with only ExceptionInfo AOT compiled once i can figure it out
13:33	technomancy	why not spin off ex-info-1.3 into its own lib?
13:33	jcrossley3	Bronsa: thx
13:33	technomancy	you're probably not the only one to want it
13:33	hiredman	technomancy: cause this is contrib, and doing that kind of thing is a pain
13:33	technomancy	oh
13:33	technomancy	welp
13:34	Bronsa	that :(
13:34	abp	propose ex-info-1.3 as contrib library. :)
13:35	hiredman	it would be great if you could just slingshot, since it takes care of this for you
13:48	jtoy	should this work: (for [x iterable] (println "EACH" x)) I dont see anythig when I do that
13:49	nDuff	jtoy: it creates a lazy sequence
13:49	nDuff	jtoy: so it won't print anything until you realize it.
13:50	nDuff	jtoy: ...if you want side effects, use doseq instead of for.
13:50	alandipert	jtoy: 'for' is lazy, see 'doseq'
13:50	jtoy	ok
13:50	frenchyp	are there native clojure projects to interact with avro and hadoop, or do they wrap the java api?
13:51	Bronsa	jcrossley3: I think i got it
13:52	papachan	is it this correct? -> https://www.stypi.com/papachan/main.clj
13:52	jcrossley3	Bronsa: cool. this will be 7.3? soon-ish?
13:52	Bronsa	jcrossley3: as soon as I see test-matrix passes :)
13:53	jcrossley3	sweet
13:55	Raynes	Wow.
13:55	Raynes	How many pastebins are there?
13:55	clojure-new	Hello, how can achieve this: (update-in {:entries '(1 2 3)} [:entries 0] inc) => {:entries '(2 2 3)}?
13:56	Raynes	As soon as I think I know them all, someone finds another one to use.
13:56	technomancy	clojure-new: needs to be a vector, not a list
13:56	Raynes	You really don't want to update a list by index.
13:56	clojure-new	technomancy: Yay, thanks.
13:57	corecode	should i be using (. method obj args) or (.method obj args)?
13:58	cemerick	corecode: the former is generally only emitted by macros, if that
13:58	corecode	ah ok
13:58	corecode	or rather (.. obj (.method args))?
13:59	cemerick	.. is a specialized threading macro for interop purposes; -> has taken its place except for rare circumstances (e.g. involving static method invocations)
14:00	cemerick	If you just want the transliteration of object.method(args), then (.method object args) is it.
14:01	jtoy	what is the correct way to convert clojure.lang.PersistentVector$ChunkedSeq to a string? I do (str variable) but it adds chacters to it
14:02	Bronsa	, (.getName clojure.lang.PersistentVector$ChunkedSeq)
14:02	clojurebot	"clojure.lang.PersistentVector$ChunkedSeq"
14:02	corecode	cemerick: thanks!
14:03	jtoy	the string I am starting from is : "45\tyes,45,no,20" and I do (clojure.string/split (next (clojure.string/split string #"\t") #","))
14:03	Bronsa	jcrossley3: released 0.7.3, let me know if it works for you
14:04	jcrossley3	Bronsa: wdm
14:04	Bronsa	jcrossley3: it's not on central yet though
14:04	jcrossley3	i can install locally
14:05	jtoy	this is what I'm trying to do: (clojure.string/split ( next (clojure.string/split "1081\tyes,45,no,20" #"\t") ) #",")
14:07	jtoy	and if i explicitly turn it into a string, gargage gets added: (clojure.string/split ( str ( next (clojure.string/split "1081\tyes,45,no,20" #"\t") )) #",")
14:09	dabd	is there any tail file utility for clojure that anyone is willing to share?
14:11	chronno	jtoy: (clojure.string/split "1081\tyes,45,no,20" #"\t\|,")
14:12	jtoy	chronno: i guess I could do it that way, but it would be useful to understand why the other way doesnt work
14:15	chronno	jtoy: you are passing a ChunkedSeq as the first argument to split. What you want is to split the elements inside the sequence, no the sequence itself
14:15	chronno	chronno: in this case, the first element should be enough
14:16	chronno	jtoy:^^
14:16	chronno	jtoy: (clojure.string/split (first (next (clojure.string/split "1081\tyes,45,no,20" #"\t"))) #",")
14:16	amalloy	really if you want to split a string into "first part" and "rest part", pass string/split the extra optional numeric arg telling it how many splits to do
14:17	cemerick	jtoy: What's the question? next returns a seq, not a string.
14:17	amalloy	(-> "1081\tyes,45,no,20" (string/split #"\t" 2) (second) (string/split #","))
14:18	cemerick	holy laggy irc! :-P
14:19	NeedMoreDesu	ClojureRuntime.class.getClassLoader() -- how do I write this in clojure?
14:20	NeedMoreDesu	(. ClojureRuntime class) don't work
14:20	arcatan	now that read-eval is in the news, in what kinds of situations it's useful?
14:20	technomancy	NeedMoreDesu: I think calling .class in Java is just a weird quirk of the language since it's difficult for some reason to refer to classes directly.
14:21	technomancy	NeedMoreDesu: in Clojure you can refer directly to the class without the extra call
14:21	NeedMoreDesu	technomancy: oh, really. Thanks.
14:21	auser	hey all
14:21	technomancy	Java is so weird
14:22	stuartsierra	arcatan: read-eval lets you construct arbitrary data structures at read-time, which is what makes print-dup possible.
14:23	stuartsierra	The #= macro was never officially documented, but widely known.
14:24	amalloy	technomancy: it's easier to refer to int[][].class in java than in clojure :P
14:24	drewc	"the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language"
14:24	NeedMoreDesu	stuartsierra: mostly besause it is causing security problems.
14:25	stuartsierra	It's just like what we went through with JSON, then YAML.
14:25	stuartsierra	It will doubtless happen again.
14:25	technomancy	amalloy: again with the weird thing
14:25	technomancy	stuartsierra: JSON?
14:25	gozala	Does clojure exports all the top level definitions by default ?
14:26	technomancy	YAML at least had it documented from the outsed
14:26	technomancy	outset
14:26	stuartsierra	technomancy: Yeah, back in the dark ages when people used to call `eval` in JavaScript to "read" JSON.
14:26	hiredman	gozala: nothing is "exported"
14:26	technomancy	stuartsierra: that's not JSON though; that's JSONP
14:26	hiredman	gozala: you can refer things from other namespaces if you want
14:26	stuartsierra	Yeah, we know that NOW...
14:26	guestttt	hi there, I was curious - why does clojure employs macros and eager evaluation instead of implicit quoting and optional evaluation (as rebol does for example)
14:29	gozala	hiredman: ok so I meant you can import / use top level definitions form other namespaces ?
14:30	`fogus	guestttt: Clojure's heritage is more in Common Lisp and Scheme rather than something like Kernel.
14:30	gozala	if so what's ^:export for ?
14:30	hiredman	^:export is a clojurescript thing
14:30	gozala	hiredman: yeah that's why I'm confused :)
14:30	hiredman	it tells the google closure compiler not to mangle the name so it is callable from other javascript libraries
14:31	gozala	oh I see
14:31	hiredman	the name mangling only happens if you do advanced optimizations I believe
14:32	TimMc	stuartsierra: The funny thing is that JSON has never been a subset of JS, so eval is a broken way of doing things anyhow. :-P
14:32	stuartsierra	All software is broken. Some of it is useful. ;)
14:33	TimMc	eval is fine for JSON config files.
14:33	stuartsierra	And `clojure.core/read` is fine for .clj config files.
14:34	TimMc	yep
14:35	TimMc	If you start using user data, though, sooner or later you will run into U+2028 or U+2029 and eval chokes.
14:35	gozala	hiredman: thanks
14:35	RazWelles	is there a way to dump a clojure list to a file?
14:36	rabbit_airstrike	spit?
14:36	RazWelles	esp if it contains anonymous functions and defrecord's
14:36	technomancy	RazWelles: you can't serialize regular fns; you have to use serializable-fn
14:37	gozala	hiredman: although I'd expected to mangle names for defn- not the others
14:37	RazWelles	technomancy, ohh I didn't even know that existed
14:37	guestttt	`fogus: thx for response - ok, so again - from talks I saw Rich seems to be VERY pragmatic, I can hardly disagree with him on anything. If anything, it would be oop (offtopic for now) - so I am curious if there was a reason why lisp macros were preferred over smalltalk way of dealing with control structures (for example)
14:37	hiredman	gozala: the google closure compiler is a whole program optimizer, unless told otherwise it assumes it can do whatever it wants
14:37	RazWelles	technomancy, one more question- how do I put a directory into my load-file path? So i can load-file other clj source files?
14:38	technomancy	RazWelles: there is no reliable way to do that
14:38	guestttt	`fogus: smalltalk does solve control structures using blocks passed as arguments (and so it is form of lazy evaluation)
14:38	gozala	hiredman: no sure but it's possible to assume ^:exports in all top level forms unless opt-ed out via ^:private or defn-
14:39	RazWelles	technomancy, x.x so how do you split a clojure program into several files?
14:39	arcatan	i wonder if there's a case where it matters whether read-eval is true/false
14:39	nDuff	gozala: There's more control with the current approach: Whether a cljs function is visible from other namespaces is separate from whether it's visible from javascript after the program has been compiled into a blob.
14:39	nDuff	gozala: ^:private thus provides distinct semantics from a lack of ^:export
14:39	borkdude	When I search a function name like this with apropos: (apropos #"\?$") I get among other blank? as a result
14:39	technomancy	RazWelles: oh, I thought you meant at runtime. you can set your classpath during the JVM boot just fine
14:39	amalloy	RazWelles: don't use load-file. use the namespace form, with require
14:39	guestttt	`fogus: anyway, thank you very much for that hint on kernel, I was not aware of that before!
14:39	nDuff	gozala: ...and, bigger-picture, having the defaults this way leads to much more tightly-optimized programs.
14:39	borkdude	how can I know from which namespace this function comes (probably string or smth, but that's not my point)
14:39	RazWelles	technomancy, ohh ok- well I'm using clojureclr...
14:39	technomancy	RazWelles: oh, no idea, sorry
14:40	RazWelles	I'll see if amalloy's require suggestion works in clojureclr then
14:40	amalloy	RazWelles: probably best to mention that first. you don't want to get a bunch of car-mechanic advice and then say "btw i'm riding a motorcycle actually"
14:40	technomancy	heh
14:41	RazWelles	amalloy, ahaha sorry
14:41	gozala	nDuff: oh right so it's just for js
14:41	nDuff	gozala: Exactly.
14:41	gozala	I get it know thanks nDuff hiredman for insights
14:41	RazWelles	I'm so used to looking through java-based solutions and trying to find the corresponding solution in clojureclr, that's been my tactic all last night with google
14:42	`fogus	guestttt: I talk about just that thing in my Necronomicon talk. Gotta run for now, but maybe that will answer your question if you have time. http://blip.tv/clojure/michael-fogus-the-macronomicon-5970233
14:43	borkdude	isn't the output of apropos a little useless if the namespace isn't prefixed?
14:43	guestttt	`fogus: thank you! will have a look
14:45	RazWelles	Oh, does anyone know how to remove an event handler in clojureclr?
14:48	borkdude	RazWelles dunno, via interop?
14:49	borkdude	RazWelles was it added via add-watch? there's also remove-watch
14:49	RazWelles	well I found ClojureCLR created .add_<fn_name> methods and .remove<fn_name> methods, but I don't know how to sue the remove counterpart
14:49	RazWelles	I tried doing .remove and supplying the same function, or even doing it on its own
14:49	RazWelles	I don't know what it expects as an argument
14:50	borkdude	RazWelles you should probably not pass the function, but the var
14:50	borkdude	RazWelles because function values have no equality,
14:50	RazWelles	right even when I passed the function's symbol it didn't work
14:50	borkdude	RazWelles var isn't the symbol
14:50	RazWelles	ahh what is it then?
14:51	borkdude	RazWelles #'+ is a var, + is a symbol
14:51	RazWelles	ohhhh ok
14:51	borkdude	RazWelles var is the mutable storage location itself
14:51	RazWelles	I'll try that thanks
14:51	RazWelles	so I'd do something like `(fn-name)?
14:51	borkdude	#'fn-name
14:52	RazWelles	borkdude, thanks I'll try that :)
14:52	borkdude	RazWelles it's just a guess… good luck
14:52	RazWelles	ty x.x
14:53	chillenious	Hi folks. I have something I don't quite understand. If you look at my paste here https://www.refheap.com/paste/12293, the first code fragment which includes a dummy arg (or however you'd call that) just to print doesn't work as expected, but as soon as I remove the line, it does work. But I don't understand why this is. Any hints?
14:55	hiredman	doseq is sort of a side effecting for
14:55	nDuff	What's a more idiomatic way to write (every? (true? (for ...)))
14:55	hiredman	println returns nil, which is also accepted as an empty seq
14:55	hiredman	so everything after the println is being done once for every item in an empty seq
14:55	hiredman	(never)
14:55	chillenious	ah, that makes sense, thanks!
14:56	borkdude	nDuff (every? identity (for ..)) ?
14:56	borkdude	nDuff or apply every?
14:56	borkdude	no
14:57	borkdude	(every? identity ["Dude" "Dude"]) => true, (every? identity ["Dude" nil]) => false
15:00	nDuff	nod. Originally wrote it as every? identity, but the code is meant to be read by Java developers, so I changed it to every? true?. Was hoping there would be a single construct that would have that effect, though.
15:02	borkdude	nDuff how about
15:02	borkdude	,(not-any? nil? ["Dude" nil])
15:02	clojurebot	false
15:11	papachan	somebody can help me?
15:12	borkdude	papachan just ask your question
15:12	jeremyheiler	~anyone
15:12	clojurebot	Just a heads up, you're more likely to get some help if you ask the question you really want the answer to, instead of "does anyone ..."
15:12	nDuff	papachan: If you can't ask a specific question, you're beyond help.
15:12	papachan	sure nDuff
15:12	borkdude	now let's not get all grumpy ;)
15:13	papachan	i trying to understand why i cant have the output of a simple function which do a loop
15:13	papachan	at this moment i have this -> https://www.stypi.com/papachan/main.clj
15:13	jeremyheiler	gumble grumble :-P
15:13	nDuff	papachan: using def inside a function is bad news.
15:13	nDuff	papachan: def creates vars; vars are global to your namespace.
15:13	papachan	ok
15:14	papachan	if i am inside of let
15:14	nDuff	papachan: ...and I don't know what you're trying to do calling "0" as a function.
15:14	Bronsa	also where is create-line defined?
15:14	borkdude	papachan first of all, ("0") isn't valid
15:14	borkdude	too late
15:14	jeremyheiler	That site is neat.
15:14	nDuff	papachan: ...so, an explanation of what you want your code to do would be helpful.
15:14	papachan	oh i see i have too many errors
15:15	papachan	i am trying to get a list of "0"
15:15	papachan	and get the middle position with 1
15:16	borkdude	can everybody collaborate on that piece of code on that site?
15:16	borkdude	I saw test written :)
15:16	jeremyheiler	borkdude, I just typed "Test" into the document.
15:16	papachan	i think yes
15:16	borkdude	cool]
15:16	papachan	yes
15:18	jeremyheiler	papachan, Could you describe what you're trying to do with this program?
15:19	papachan	something basic, i am beginning with clojure
15:19	borkdude	if i is a range, how can you compare it with a number?
15:19	papachan	trying to have a list of "0"
15:19	Bronsa	borkdude: i is not a range, it's a number
15:19	papachan	and at middle position, change it for 1
15:19	Bronsa	it's inside an or
15:19	Bronsa	for*
15:19	borkdude	ah sorry, misread it
15:20	borkdude	I read let instead of for, doh
15:20	papachan	i have remove the "def" inside my let statement
15:20	jeremyheiler	papachan, If you want a literal list, you need to quote it like this: '(1 2 3) so that it doesn't try to evaluate it as a function invocation.
15:20	Bronsa	heh
15:20	papachan	it compile goog
15:21	borkdude	papachan what is the point of deffing n if you don't use it as a result
15:21	borkdude	which should be in a let, which is now the case in your oce
15:21	borkdude	code
15:22	Bronsa	papachan: try it out now
15:22	papachan	i am trying
15:23	Bronsa	I'm not even sure :main true is a thing in gen-class
15:24	borkdude	Bronsa it is (looked up the docs)
15:24	Bronsa	borkdude: oh, ok
15:24	borkdude	Bronsa but I didn't see it before, maybe it's the default
15:25	papachan	it works
15:25	papachan	i understand now the code
15:25	papachan	thank for your help
15:26	durka42	any core.matrix people around here?
15:26	borkdude	papachan I can call the function -main now like this: (-main 3)
15:27	borkdude	papachan but note that when called from the cmd prompt, the arguments will be passed a strings
15:32	Foxboron	Anything recommended for parsing HTML with Clojure?
15:34	corecode	Foxboron: ems...
15:34	corecode	what was the name
15:35	jeremyheiler	Foxboron, Laser. https://github.com/Raynes/laser
15:36	borkdude	https://github.com/davidsantiago/hickory
15:36	Foxboron	awsome
15:36	Foxboron	i'll look at those :)
15:36	Apage43	i was going to say I typically just use Jsoup
15:37	borkdude	Laser uses hickory if I'm not mistaking. Laser = templating, hickory = parsing
15:37	Apage43	hickory uses Jsoup though so =)
15:37	borkdude	lol
15:37	borkdude	transitive dependencies ;)
15:38	Apage43	Jsoup is pretty nice if you want to use css-like selectors
15:38	nDuff	(at least in the Python world, BeautifulSoup abandoned their old parser in favor of lxml.html -- and that decision was very much for the better).
15:40	Apage43	i think it's a more from scratch thing, at least as of their HTML5-compliant version
15:41	Apage43	you get a "real" DOM, as it were.
15:44	neotyk	Foxboron: enlive works great
15:44	Foxboron	neotyk: i feel its kinda heavy for just parsing.
15:45	Foxboron	Which laser seems to be the solution for.
15:46	neotyk	Foxboron: have to look at laser than
15:47	Foxboron	neotyk: what i am doing :) It was suggested above.
15:54	zakwilso1	There look to be four database schema and migration libraries for Clojure that are somewhat active. Has anybody done a comparison recently or have information that would help me pick one faster than trying them all?
15:55	danlarkin	zakwilso1: yeah use migratus
15:55	danlarkin	it's pronounced maig-rah-toos
15:55	jimkcar	lol
15:55	pjstadig	mig-great-us
15:55	pjstadig	er
15:55	pjstadig	mi-great-us
15:55	pjstadig	whatever
15:56	danlarkin	no
15:56	danlarkin	maig-rah-toos
15:56	pjstadig	danlarkin: maybe your fork is pronounced that way
15:56	hiredman	mahi-grah-tous
15:57	hiredman	my great house
15:58	danlarkin	it's a nice library no matter how you pronounce it (maig-rah-toos)
15:59	zakwilso1	danlarkin: do you have anything to say in its favor relative to the others aside from "I like it"?
16:00	danlarkin	it's just straight sql
16:00	danlarkin	which I like
16:01	yazirian	bah weep grah nah weep migratus
16:03	papachan	thank you borkdude just recent read your messages
16:04	zakwilson	I see that as neutral. I dislike SQL as a language, but whatever-to-sql compilers aren't always awesome.
16:07	pjstadig	zakwilson: the principles behind migratus are: 1) just use SQL (a database DSL) instead of inventing yet another database DSL, 2) be compatible with git based workflow
16:07	pjstadig	mostly
16:08	pjstadig	migratus also frames its transactions differently than ragtime so that with a database that supports transactional DDL (like postgres) you get the maximum projection
16:08	pjstadig	i think ragtime does not wrap a transaction around both running the migration and updating the these-migrations-have-run-table at the same time
16:09	pjstadig	drift's migrations are not compatible with git workflow
16:09	pjstadig	i don't really know much about others
16:10	pjstadig	technomancy will tell you to just use functions https://github.com/ato/clojars-web/blob/master/src/clojars/db/migrate.clj which i would also recommend to you, if that works for you
16:10	zakwilson	I think yet another DSL would be of use if it shared code with a query library like Korma.
16:11	pjstadig	that's a fine idea, and not one i support, so migratus may not work for you
16:12	zakwilson	It's good to have a clear sense of what your project should and should not do.
16:14	zakwilson	I might end up using migratus; drift doesn't seem to have great docs, ragtime seems similar to migratus, but nobody has said anything in its favor yet and Lobos' website is pretty out of sync, at least in terms of version numbers.
16:15	pjstadig	we use migratus at sonian
16:15	pjstadig	so it is being put to actual production use, and i have a vested interest in it
16:15	pjstadig	if that makes any difference
16:15	jaen1	a
16:16	zakwilson	That does suggest it won't go away quickly. This is for a client project, so stability matters.
16:16	jcrossley3	Bronsa: 7.3 looks much better, btw. it didn't solve my problem, but i think it's something on our side.
16:17	zakwilson	Another point in its favor: the author is easy to find in IRC if I need someone to choke.
16:17	Bronsa	mh
16:18	Bronsa	well jcrossley3 just let me know if you think I can do anything about it
16:18	jcrossley3	Bronsa: cool, thx
16:18	pjstadig	zakwilson: hehe
16:19	tboyt	https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/wiki/The-REPL-and-Evaluation-Environments this article has some sample code for setting up a browser-based repl using the (require) function. but when i try to use this function in a clojurescript file, the function is apparently nonexistant ("cannot call method 'call' of undefined"). is there something i need to do to be able to access (require)?
16:19	sshack	Are there any decent references for data munging/cleanup in Clojure? (I'm cleaning up the contents of some CSV imports)
16:20	zakwilson	Ok, migratus it is, unless someone wants to try to talk me in to something else in the next ten minutes or knows of something that ties in with Korma.
16:20	hiredman	tboyt: that is clojure code meant to be run in a clojure repl
16:21	tboyt	hiredman: not according to the sample's original src: https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/blob/master/samples/repl/src/repl/test.cljs#L29
16:22	zakwilson	nDuff: rant if you like. I haven't used it in a while, but I liked it when I did.
16:22	hiredman	tboyt: that is in a comment
16:22	tboyt	hiredman: …i just noticed that as you said it. blegh. you'd think there'd be special syntax highlighting for a comment like that :p
16:23	tboyt	still, though, i have zero idea how to get a working browser repl up and running with cljsbuild. is there some tutorial i'm missing?
16:23	nDuff	zakwilson: Short form: Korma is sufficiently dependent on macros that it's not at all friendly to function composition.
16:25	tomoj	oh, nice
16:25	zakwilson	nDuff: do you have something better to suggest?
16:25	tomoj	I thought I didn't like it just cus I'm prejudiced against sql
16:26	nDuff	zakwilson: Wrote my own, but (1) it's unreleased, and (2) it's only good enough for my own use cases, and nothing more -- and I haven't evaluated the other public alternatives in detail. So, short form: No.
16:26	zakwilson	I like the idea of relational databases, but SQL feels like it's from 1974.
16:27	zakwilson	nDuff: you should release it so other people can hack on it. In the mean time, I will use Korma for this project.
16:27	danlarkin	sql perfectly represents its domain
16:27	danlarkin	I don't understand the haters it attracts
16:28	nDuff	danlarkin: If I can't use function composition to build queries, I'm hamstrung.
16:28	nDuff	danlarkin: ...and "perfectly" is a stretch. Extending korma to cover new syntax is much more of a pain than it has to be.
16:28	hiredman	danlarkin: imagine if you had to glue together javascript statements as strings to query some database
16:28	zakwilson	SQL isn't composable, and SQL schemas are imperative.
16:29	nDuff	zakwilson: I can even do composition with SQLAlchemy's query builder easier than with Korma.
16:29	zakwilson	Also, really irritating mix of prefix, infix and postfix.
16:29	nDuff	zakwilson: Can, and _have_.
16:30	zakwilson	SQL is somewhat composable using external tools. That may solve the problem, but I still see it as a valid complaint against the language.
16:30	hiredman	at an sql prompt writing sql is great, but when you have a 20 sql statement checked in as a string it is gross
16:30	hiredman	20 line
16:30	scottj	is clojureql better than korma in this respect (using function composition to build queries)?
16:30	technomancy	oh come on, composability by string manipulation works great for metaprogramming in ruby; how bad can it be?
16:31	zakwilson	Glue together JS statements for queries? Isn't that half the "nosql" (I hate that term) databases out there?
16:31	sshack	zakwilson: It's fair to say SQL hasn't adapted with the times. It's suffered from crystallization.
16:31	pjstadig	with migratus you can modify sql in sql files, but of course that doesn't help with writing queries
16:32	technomancy	I would actively warn against drift and lobos because they trick you into thinking you can swap out the underlying DB implementation without changing actual code, which is not true
16:32	sshack	"I know what I know, and I don't want to change!"
16:32	pjstadig	if you want a functional take on databases then you should use datomic
16:32	pjstadig	if you're used an RDBMS, then SQL is the way to go
16:32	hiredman	you can run `lein check` to see if your code has any compilation errors, what do you do to see if your sql strings match your schema?
16:32	pjstadig	hiredman: you want static typing?
16:33	sshack	pjstadig: Yeah. Trick is people think RDMS=SQL. Nothing wrong with RDMS's, SQL just hasn't kept up.
16:33	hiredman	~#35
16:33	clojurebot	35. Everyone can be taught to sculpt: Michelangelo would have had to be taught not to. So it is with great programmers. -- Alan J. Perlis
16:33	hiredman	hmmm
16:33	hiredman	~#34
16:33	clojurebot	34. The string is a stark data structure and everywhere it is passed there is much duplication of process. It is a perfect vehicle for hiding information. -- Alan J. Perlis
16:33	pjstadig	i guess generally you'd right tests to see if your queries match the schema
16:33	pjstadig	s/right/write/
16:33	hiredman	yeah
16:34	hiredman	you would parse the queries, figure out what columns of what tables they reference then see if they exist
16:34	zakwilson	It would be really awesome to have a new RDMS that doesn't try to be backwards-compatible. It would probably never catch on.
16:34	pjstadig	zakwilson: datomic?
16:34	sshack	zakwilson: You are an oracle. We've reached a local optima. That's a hard rut to break out of.
16:34	nDuff	pjstadig: http://www.datomic.com/
16:35	pjstadig	hiredman: if you're parsing sql statements and trying to figure out what columns would exist at runtime you are in the same position as you are with static typing
16:35	pjstadig	you're trying to simulate the program with out actually running it
16:35	pjstadig	so just write tests against the db
16:36	hiredman	pjstadig: it is similar
16:36	zakwilson	pjstadig: probably not. That seems like a higher-level layer (and I think it's implemented that way).
16:37	zakwilson	sshack: it just needs to solve somebody's problem satisfactorily.
16:37	zakwilson	Some problem that has people setting their hair on fire, that is.
16:37	sshack	zakwilson: Well, that gets you an internal tool.
16:37	sshack	Now you have to get it to the public, and drive it.
16:38	sshack	zakwilson: Not trying to put you off or anything.
16:39	sshack	So are there any clojure tools/references for cleaning up messy imported data (CSV files, in this case)?
16:40	zakwilson	Well, I'll get around to it just as soon as I create a replacement for C in which to write it.
16:41	sshack	zakwilson: Haskell?
16:41	sshack	But not strict not lazy.
16:41	zakwilson	Haskell will do as soon as I find a good source for LSD.
16:46	sshack	Tried licking a toad?
16:47	abp	Twice, they taste like earth, don't understand the hype.
16:49	zakwilson	I'll take your word for it and not try.
16:50	zakwilson	I do want to make something kinda like C with Lisp syntax. Yes, I know people have done that sort of thing before.
16:51	rabbit_airstrike	where do you live that toads secrete LSD?
16:52	zakwilson	You could genetically modify a toad to secrete LSD, perhaps.
16:58	sshack	rabbit_airstrike: There are some breeds of toads that secrete some sort of slight poison people use to get high.
16:59	sshack	Apparently, those types of toads are invading the area around me.
16:59	sshack	I don't know though. The only drugs I take are Lambda's.
17:04	Foxboron	,#java.io.FileWriter["hello_from_ljos"]
17:04	clojurebot	#<SecurityException java.lang.SecurityException: denied>
17:05	Foxboron	damn. It worked with my sandbox. hmm
17:05	Sgeo_	Try the other one
17:05	Sgeo_	&#java.io.FileWriter["hello_from_ljos"]
17:05	lazybot	⇒ #<FileWriter java.io.FileWriter@1ff5f75>
17:06	ljos	wait, that doesn't look good :D
17:06	rabbit_airstrike	sshack: but they're not secreting LSD :)
17:07	rabbit_airstrike	most of those poisons are likely deliriants, not psychedelics
17:07	Foxboron	hahaha
17:07	Foxboron	i think lazybot uses the same sandbox i am using
17:07	sshack	rabbit_airstrike: No, not technically. But would you really care? You'd still get high.
17:07	Raynes	Foxboron: clojail?
17:07	Raynes	If so, then yes.
17:07	Raynes	lazybot is mine and amalloy's. Turns out we are also the authors of clojail. Small world.
17:09	rabbit_airstrike	sshack: there are serious qualitative differences between deliriant and psychedelic experiences. Psychedelics can be conducive to mathematical thinking, whereas deliriants will make you stupid for the duration if they don't kill you
17:09	sshack	rabbit_airstrike: The lesson here is to never go tripping with me.
17:10	Foxboron	Raynes: i digged into the source. It dosnt use the default secure-tester i used. But it still evals the same line it did on my bot :)
17:10	netrealm	Hey, what testing frameworks are people currently recommending?
17:10	Raynes	clojure.test, midge, speclj.
17:10	Foxboron	Raynes: its clojure, it is a small world IMO :)
17:10	Raynes	In that order.
17:11	Raynes	Foxboron: There are nearly 600 people in here.
17:11	Raynes	$max
17:11	lazybot	The most users ever in #clojure is 578
17:11	netrealm	Raynes: Cool, thanks.
17:11	Raynes	Yeah, I should fix that.
17:11	Raynes	lazybot is a huge liar.
17:11	amalloy	Foxboron: it actually isn't evaluating, it's just reading. it's definitely a security hole, but you can't do anything with that filewriter once you've created it
17:11	durka42	maybe it's just lazy
17:11	egghead	is there a way to get lein test failure to result in a non-zero exit code?
17:12	llasram	egghead: I'm pretty sure it does that already?
17:12	egghead	hm
17:12	Foxboron	amalloy: hah. Yeah i see. Might wanna patch the secure-tester if ya can. Else i gotta dig into how to make it skip the java.io stuff.
17:12	amalloy	Foxboron: nothing to do with the secure tester. we just have to upgrade to 1.5 and use edn/read
17:13	amalloy	or perhaps do our reading inside the jvm sandbox, which would be harder
17:13	llasram	egghead: Yeah -- exit code should be the number of test errors + failures
17:13	egghead	llasram: maybe I need to update
17:13	egghead	https://www.refheap.com/paste/07abe22fcb473e0b028b14796
17:14	egghead	i'm on Leiningen 2.0.0-preview10 -- probably just an old version thing
17:14	llasram	No, that should be good
17:14	llasram	Your project does't :eval-in :leiningen, does it?
17:15	egghead	nah, very simple boilerplate project.clj
17:15	llasram	egghead: hmm. That's very odd. OUr CI system works w/ that version of lein just fine
17:16	llasram	egghead: Unfortunately I need to take off, but good luck sorting it out
17:16	ljos	amalloy: you can't do anythinh with the filewriter afterwards, but it is destructive if I hit a file that I know is there.
17:16	egghead	cheers llasram
17:16	amalloy	i know, ljos. i told you it's a hole
17:16	amalloy	just instantiating it is dangerous
17:17	Frozenlock	Lazyness and database are a bad combination :(
17:18	technomancy	laziness and dynamic scope in particular
17:18	technomancy	looking forward to a c.j.jdbc release that doesn't force dynamic scope on you =\
17:19	egghead	ah, the error seems to be specific to expectations
17:19	Frozenlock	Indeed... I've been bitten once by dynamic variables... now I try to simply never use them.
17:20	Frozenlock	They are hard to debug...
17:28	jtoy	is there a way to no im inside of the repl as opposed to a compiled jar from inside of clojure
17:28	jtoy	know
17:32	mikerod	Does `extend-type` not support adding a doc string to the protocol method implementations? e.g. (extend-type SomeType SomeProto (proto-method "Impl for proto-method" [this] this))
17:32	mikerod	e.g. (extend-type SomeType SomeProto (proto-method "Impl for proto-method" [this] this))
17:33	Frozenlock	jtoy: could re-ask your question, but this time with other words? :P
17:33	Frozenlock	*you
17:36	zakwilson	I find it interesting that Clojure and the community in general doesn't seem to rely a lot on macros. I used them and saw others use them a lot more in Common Lisp.
17:37	jtoy	Frozenlock: can clojure know if its running code from a repl vs a jar ?
17:41	Raynes	Why would you want to do that, jtoy?
17:42	devn	yogthos: you around?
17:42	devn	technomancy: how big of a pain is it to shell out to something like pygments from a clojure app on heroku?
17:42	devn	Raynes: ^ Are you hosting on heroku?
17:42	zakwilson	Is it the general consensus that slime/swank isn't the way to go anymore and we should all use nrepl?
17:43	devn	zakwilson: it seems that way
17:43	Raynes	devn: I moved off of Heroku recently.
17:43	technomancy	devn: assuming python programs are installable via something similar to rubygems, pretty easy
17:43	Raynes	devn: However, shelling out to pygments was easy on heroku.
17:43	zakwilson	Meh. More change.
17:44	Raynes	technomancy, devn: pygments always got pulled in by my 'bootstrap' script, so pygments ended up in the slug. It's easy.
17:44	technomancy	zakwilson: if you have a setup with slime that works, keep using it till it doesn't.
17:44	devn	Raynes: word
17:45	Raynes	technomancy: I think that's terrible advice. "Oh, just wait until it breaks and then, even if you're busy with something else, move to nrepl and learn on the spot."
17:45	jtoy	Raynes: I want to know that so I can make my code have different defaults depending on where i am
17:45	Raynes	It makes more sense to me to just go to nrepl now and save yourself problems later, or at least plan for it.
17:45	amalloy	zakwilson: i'm clinging to slime for dear life, but you start using clojure 1.5 you'll have to either fix slime/swank or switch to nrepl
17:46	technomancy	I thought tcrawley fixed the 1.5 issues?
17:46	zakwilson	Well, I just tried it with 1.5 and it didn't work, so I guess I'm switching.
17:47	amalloy	technomancy: maybe. my version of slime/swank is probably about a year old
17:47	zakwilson	I guess that'll make it easier to use slime with CL though.
17:47	Raynes	technomancy: Don't encourage him.
17:48	technomancy	Raynes: not my problem any more... you have no idea how good it feels.
17:48	technomancy	anyway, upgrade whenever you want
17:48	zakwilson	I get the impression slime-related code has been a pain in the ass to maintain.
17:49	technomancy	unless you want to take over maintenance of swank-clojure or something
17:49	technomancy	zakwilson: yeah, I used to have semi-regular rants on the subject
17:49	tcrawley	zakwilson: last time I used it, the latest swank-clojure worked with 1.5
17:49	tcrawley	but I can't tell what version that was, because https://clojars.org/swank-clojure gives an error
17:49	technomancy	zakwilson: http://p.hagelb.org/slime-cvs-rant.txt
17:50	tcrawley	and if swank-clojure is broken now, I'm not going to fix it :)
17:52	trmsw	I have a namespace that's supposed to act as an API: a small number of public functions and a lot of horrible details. I've split the horrible details into several files - it seemed like a good idea at the time. That means lots of "(load x)"s in the main file and an "(in-ns 'api)" in every part file. Is there a better way?
17:53	n_b	trmsw: Look at clojure.org/libs
17:53	tjgillies	is there anything like http://reactivemongo.org/ for clojure?
17:53	n_b	You want to be using the :use and :require parts of the ns macro
17:55	n_b	Question of my own: Is there some reason the api-key in Line 26 seems to refuse to load from secrets.txt?
17:56	n_b	Code: https://www.refheap.com/paste/12305 - I've tried putting it in a (do) using (defonce) instead, but unless it's in the env var, it will not work
17:56	n_b	It seems to function at the REPL, but not when loaded in my Compojure handler
17:58	trmsw	n_b: I want callers to be able to use / require a single namespace (my-api), but the functions provided by that namespace are defined in several files / sub-namespaces, including a core that is used by all the others.
17:58	n_b	I'm not sure I follow; can you put up a gist or similar?
18:00	zakwilson	nrepl looks to be working, so I'll just stick with that.
18:03	jtoy	how can I load a string to be evaled in the current context and not in its own context? the docs day load-string "should any form have an effect on that var (e.g. `in-namespace), the effect will unwind at the completion of the load"
18:04	trmsw	n_b: https://gist.github.com/tomsw/5120775
18:06	jtoy	ah, read and eval
18:07	n_b	tmarble: Why can't you do in gui.clj (ns myapi.core.gui (:require [myapi.core :only (foo bar)])) ?
18:07	amalloy	jtoy: you cannot evaluate a form in any non-null lexical environment. you can bind ns to whatever you want to make vars available, but you can never make locals available
18:09	n_b	trmsw: Like this: https://gist.github.com/nickbarnwell/5120788
18:11	trmsw	n_b: I see what you mean. But that effectively means duplicating all the public functions
18:11	n_b	er
18:11	n_b	what
18:12	n_b	just require or :use what is needed
18:15	trmsw	n_b: I have a client namespace that wants to use my api. It should just be able to use / require a single namespace, myapi, to get access all the public functions in my api. These functions might not all live in the same place - eg myapi.gui, myapi.forms etc.
18:17	n_b	If you want all your functions to be in one namespace, they should be in one namespace.
18:20	trmsw	n_b: ok, so one namespace, several files = load + in-ns
18:21	Foxboron	Raynes, just gotta mention. Reading your blog and discovered you are actually as old as me. Very inspiring to read :)
18:21	yogthos	devn: sort of :)
18:22	Raynes	Foxboron: So you're how old then?
18:22	Foxboron	Raynes: 19 in june.
18:22	Foxboron	july*
18:22	Foxboron	i mess up those dates -.-
18:22	Raynes	So you're slightly younger than I am.
18:22	Raynes	Very slightly.
18:23	ivaraase1	Raynes: you have the most awesome accent by the way
18:23	Raynes	orly
18:23	Raynes	Did you listen to an interview or something, ivaraase1?
18:23	Foxboron	Raynes: indeed :) i did have an impression after hanging here a while that you where older :P
18:24	Raynes	Well, I'm only… 5 months older.
18:24	Foxboron	Raynes: hah, an IRC bot is also my first Clojure project :P
18:24	Foxboron	Raynes: and a few years more programming experience :)
18:24	Foxboron	and tons of other languages
18:25	Foxboron	No but really, inspiring read. Keep up the work ^^
18:25	ivaraase1	Raynes: correct
18:25	Raynes	Foxboron: So you've got more years of experience than I?
18:25	Raynes	Get out of my internet.
18:25	Raynes	I bet you're wrong about the languages part though.
18:26	Raynes	I've used enough languages that I forget which ones I've used occasionally.
18:26	Raynes	ivaraase1: Which one? :D
18:26	Foxboron	Raynes: noooo vica versa
18:26	Raynes	oic
18:26	Foxboron	hah, sorry if i pharsed it wrong :)
18:26	Raynes	I know people who started hacking when they were like 7 though.
18:27	ivaraase1	Raynes: it was some time ago, but I believe it was Mostly Lazy
18:27	Raynes	So I'm certainly not the standard for starting ages.
18:27	Raynes	Yeah, that was the most recent thing.
18:27	Foxboron	Started at like... 16 with batch :/
18:32	ivaraase1	I started programming at 14 I think
18:32	ivaraase1	but I think discipline is more important than when you start
18:34	patchwork	How do I access values from my project.clj from within my app?
18:34	patchwork	Seems like this should be simple, but I can't find any docs on it
18:36	technomancy	patchwork: project.clj is isolated from runtime
18:36	technomancy	typically that kind of config is done through environ or carica
18:37	jodaro	wow
18:37	jodaro	weird
18:38	jodaro	i was just looking at immutant docs about accessing the :project in the registry before i switched into this window
18:38	patchwork	technomancy: I see, is either one preferred?
18:39	patchwork	environ seems to use the system environment, while carica seems to be more programmatic
18:41	hiredman	I think carica is a clear winner for large amounts of configuration
18:42	patchwork	Part of my issue is I have a variety of environments the app runs in, each with its own config for things like db, s3 buckets etc
18:42	patchwork	I was hoping to use lein profiles for this
18:42	patchwork	but I guess that is not an option
18:42	hiredman	sure, we do all that in carica at work
18:43	patchwork	Ah, so how do you select among the different configs?
18:43	hiredman	there is a set of default configs checked in that get built in to the final artifact (a jar) and then chef writes overrides to the filesystem for different stacks
18:44	hiredman	carica merges configs found on the classpath
18:44	jodaro	https://github.com/typesafehub/config
18:44	patchwork	Ah, so you have another tool for that
18:44	jodaro	i used that for configs for a bit
18:44	jodaro	not clojure specific obviously
18:44	jodaro	but it was pretty easy to wrap what i needed in just a few lines of clj
18:50	alexbaranosky1	hey, does anyone know how to use leiningen to build a jar from Java source files, that will include the .class files?
18:51	hiredman	alexbaranosky1: https://github.com/sonian/Greenmail does that
18:51	hiredman	then mail thing is the lein javac task, and :java-source-paths in your project.clj
18:51	hiredman	main
18:52	alexbaranosky1	we're doing it like this: https://www.refheap.com/paste/b043c987a06e74941407f0ae6 and it only includes the Java source files for some reason
18:52	hiredman	because lein by default includes src/ (assuming src is clojure source) in the jar
18:53	hiredman	and you are not running the lein javac task I bet
18:53	alexbaranosky1	ahhh… so if we change our source directory to be another location?
18:53	hiredman	if you change your java-source-path you shouldn't get java source in the jar
18:53	hiredman	but the main thing is the javac lein task
18:53	hiredman	otherwise the java isn't compiled
19:00	technomancy	patchwork: depends on your existing deployment infrastructure. environ is slightly simpler but only supports with string values; no nesting.
19:00	technomancy	also carica supports reloading much better
19:00	technomancy	patchwork: both environ and carica support switching by profiles
19:02	alexbaranosky1	@hiredman, thanks man, you're the man
19:02	alexbaranosky1	that worked
19:11	Frozenlock	God my old code is awful. I'm sure I'll say the same thing in 10 months about my current code, but really... (when-not (empty? var) var)
19:14	amalloy	Frozenlock: what's wrong with that?
19:14	amalloy	aside from demonstrating that you don't know about the not-empty function
19:15	Foxboron	One thing i kinda find...interesting with clojure, compared too other langs. There are functions for everything.....
19:15	Foxboron	which also relates too: thank god for auto-completion.
19:15	dxeh	there are functions for everything in a lot of languages, you just probably don't know em all :p
19:15	Frozenlock	amalloy: exactly that. `seq' is much more compact. The more I learn clojure, the more I find it so incredibly dense.
19:16	amalloy	Frozenlock: seq doesn't do exactly the same thing
19:16	rabbit_airstrike	<3 the cheatsheet
19:16	amalloy	which is why i said not-empty, not seq
19:16	Foxboron	dxeh: well, comming from python where you got....12'ish builtins, and tons of libs its kinda new.
19:16	amalloy	&((juxt seq not-empty) "abc")
19:16	dxeh	Foxboron: ah, i know many languages but python isnt one of em yet ;p
19:16	Frozenlock	Really? It really _seems_ like it's the same thing :s
19:17	lazybot	⇒ [(\a \b \c) "abc"]
19:17	Frozenlock	O_o
19:17	Frozenlock	God my current code is awful
19:17	amalloy	indeed
19:17	Foxboron	dxeh: Python is cake. But Python got tons of stuff in its standar library, the problem is tho that they are either hard too use or a fuckload of OO stuff. Where Clojure got small neat functions for everything.
19:17	metellus	&((juxt seq (comp list not-empty) "abc")
19:17	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading, starting at line 1
19:18	technomancy	Frozenlock: FWIW I find empty? to be more readable than using seq as a predicate
19:18	metellus	&((juxt seq (comp list not-empty)) "abc")
19:18	lazybot	⇒ [(\a \b \c) ("abc")]
19:18	brehaut	Foxboron: ironically the priority queue implementation in pythons standard lib is more like a clojure lib, and its worse than the big OO soup :P
19:19	Foxboron	brehaut: hahahahahaha. urllib tho....huge mess.
19:19	brehaut	blerk ಠ_ಠ
19:20	Frozenlock	Eh after looking at `not-empty' source, `seq' really isn't that far away.
19:21	Frozenlock	Still, I'll try to use not-empty instead of seq, it's more readable as pointed out by technomancy.
19:22	technomancy	the "official" recommendation is to use seq as a predicate. I just don't think it's a good recommendation.
19:22	TimMc	&((juxt seq not-empty) "")
19:22	lazybot	⇒ [nil nil]
19:24	amalloy	Frozenlock: no, use seq instead of not-empty for the predicate. i'm pointing out that (when (seq x) x) or your actual (when-not (empty? x) x) is just (not-empty x)
20:30	ToBeReplaced	is https://gist.github.com/michalmarczyk/468332 currently the best way to implement a DefaultMap ? I'm looking for a solution to (merge-with conj a b) when a might be nil
20:32	auser	curious… what's the difference between {:name "World"} and :name "World" ?
20:33	xeqi	&(merge-with (fnil conj [] []) {:a []} {:b []})
20:33	lazybot	⇒ {:b [], :a []}
20:33	xeqi	&(merge-with (fnil conj [] []) {:a [1] :b [1 2]} {:b [3 4] :c [1]})
20:33	lazybot	⇒ {:c [1], :a [1], :b [1 2 [3 4]]}
20:34	xeqi	ah, not quite
20:37	amalloy	auser: one of those is a single value (a map), the other one is two separate values
20:37	auser	interesting...
20:38	amalloy	ToBeReplaced: a DefaultMap that behaves like that really breaks several promises of the map interface
20:38	ToBeReplaced	xeqi: fnil is cool, i hadn't looked into that before
20:39	amalloy	auser: it's about the same as the difference between [1 2] and 12, i suppose. one is a number, and one is a list of two numbers
20:40	ToBeReplaced	amalloy: yeah. i don't think i fully appreciate those issues yet, but it is much simpler to just write a merge-with-conj since that's the only use case i'm talking about
20:40	auser	gotcha amalloy
20:40	ToBeReplaced	especially since you have to make an assertion anyway as to the datatype of the coll to conj to
20:41	auser	amalloy: I'm attempting to get this string interpolation working for maps https://gist.github.com/auser/7776f3c507d78823da7c
20:41	hiredman	that is not a map
20:42	hiredman	#{} is a set
20:42	auser	oh yes
20:42	auser	(new)
20:43	xeqi	~contrib
20:43	clojurebot	Monolithic clojure.contrib has been split up in favor of smaller, actually-maintained libs. Transition notes here: http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Where+Did+Clojure.Contrib+Go
20:44	auser	hm
20:44	xeqi	also, clojure.contrib.* namespaces have been deprecated and split up. looks like strint ended up in [org.clojure/core.incubator "0.1.2"]
20:44	auser	hm, basically I just want to do string interpolation using a map
20:47	auser	hm, anyone doing string interpolation using a map and clojure.contrib.strint?
20:48	Raynes	I'd probably do ##(apply format "foo %s bar %s baz %s" ((juxt :foo :bar :baz) {:foo 1 :bar "a" :baz "hi"}))
20:48	lazybot	⇒ "foo 1 bar a baz hi"
20:48	Raynes	String interpolation wouldn't occur to me.
20:48	Raynes	Not that there is anything wrong with strint.
20:48	ToBeReplaced	if I wanted more sophisticated string interpolation, i'd prob use clostache
20:48	Raynes	Never used it, so I wouldn't know.
20:48	auser	interesting
20:48	Raynes	s/clostache/stencil/
20:49	Raynes	ToBeReplaced: https://github.com/davidsantiago/stencil
20:49	ToBeReplaced	what makes stencil preferable over clostache?
20:49	Raynes	Faster.
20:50	ToBeReplaced	fair enough
20:50	Raynes	I also know the guy who made stencil. He lives a few miles from me. :p
20:50	auser	oh yeah?
20:53	auser	thanks Raynes
20:55	ToBeReplaced	amalloy: re merge-with-conj... or even better... don't do that, because that makes little sense for multiple maps
20:55	ToBeReplaced	i think a good rule for me would be "if you think you want to do something that isn't already very easy, convince yourself why you don't"
20:56	Raynes	ToBeReplaced: Well, with that rule no nice things would ever be created again.
20:59	yogthos	hehe I'm still a fan of clabango myself :P
20:59	yogthos	mustache can get very mustachy :P
20:59	ToBeReplaced	my comment is within scope of course... and i probably should have said simple rather than easy
21:01	Raynes	I'm a fan of that cool laser lib.
21:01	yogthos	hehehe
21:01	Raynes	I was thinking of giving a talk about it at the next LA Clojure meetup.
21:01	yogthos	do it!
21:01	Raynes	Not sure I want to write a talk though. The conj talk I did was brutal.
21:02	yogthos	it's a lot of work
21:02	Raynes	And it has been long enough since I used keynote to make it very possible that I've entirely forgotten how to use it.
21:02	yogthos	I want to do a luminus presentation at dev TO http://www.devto.ca/contact-us/
21:02	yogthos	basically, build a simple app in 15 min and put it on heroku :)
21:03	yogthos	people like it when things work out of the box like that
21:03	yogthos	20 min is tight though :)
21:04	Raynes	My problem is more along the lines of figuring out interesting things to say about laser for 40 minutes to an hour.
21:04	yogthos	well you do some background, then some examples, and before you know it :)
21:04	yogthos	plus you have some q/a right
21:04	Raynes	That's true.
21:04	Raynes	I actually ran way out of time at the conj.
21:04	yogthos	40 min goes by pretty fast
21:06	yogthos	but yeah the reason I'm liking the clabango thing specifically is cause it's familiar to noobs
21:06	yogthos	it's like check this out, it's stuff you already know, definitely helps get interest :)
21:12	amalloy	Raynes: that won't be a problem at all. i'd worry a lot more about accidentally taking more than 90 minutes
21:13	Frozenlock	Raynes: Did you talk this year, or are you refering to previous conjs?
21:13	amalloy	previous
21:13	amalloy	he gave a clojail talk in 2011
21:14	ToBeReplaced	yogthos: that was why i brought up mustache... because people who are used to built-in string interpolation from, say, python, can use it right away.... templating as its own topic feels religious
21:15	yogthos	ToBeReplaced: my only problem with it is that it takes the whole no logic in the templates business a little too seriously :
21:15	yogthos	:)
21:15	yogthos	ToBeReplaced: the django style templating seems a bit more pragmatic in that respect
21:16	amalloy	ToBeReplaced: python's built-in string interpolation is just ##(doc format), right? i don't know why you'd involve mustache
21:16	lazybot	⇒ "([fmt & args]); Formats a string using java.lang.String.format, see java.util.Formatter for format string syntax"
21:16	amalloy	&(format "%s is bigger than %s" 10 5)
21:16	lazybot	⇒ "10 is bigger than 5"
21:16	Frozenlock	Oh that's gold "a new massively parallel, ...uhm... concurrent, ...uhm... AI-driven, ...uhm... ToDo list application." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROor6_NGIWU
21:17	amalloy	like, i could see the argument for rubyists, who have some inline string interpolation
21:18	ToBeReplaced	amalloy: you can also do "Hello {name}".format(name='amalloy') in python
22:12	dabd	I'd like to write a simple program to continuously tail a log file with something like (take-last 10 (line-seq (clojure.java.io/reader "some file")) .How should I wrap this tailing function? in an agent?
22:31	twiles	I'm trying to write some code to parse some emails, does anybody know how I could save a jpg attachment that looks like it's some kind of BASE64DecoderStream?
22:32	twiles	Here is where I'm stuck:
22:32	twiles	(.getContentType (.getBodyPart (.getContent (get-message email-5)) 1))
22:32	twiles	--> "image/jpeg; name=\"tinyvices_wayne.jpg\""
22:32	twiles	(.getContent (.getBodyPart (.getContent (get-message email-5)) 1))
22:32	twiles	--> #<BASE64DecoderStream com.sun.mail.util.BASE64DecoderStream@419e74>
22:33	Raynes	Since it is a stream, you can probably clojure.java.io/copy it to a file.
22:34	Raynes	Something like (clojure.java.io/copy (clojure.java.io/reader your-stream) (clojure.java.io/file "your-file.jpg"))
22:36	twiles	oh word
22:36	technomancy	except don't use reader for binary datas
22:38	Raynes	technomancy: Eh?
22:39	technomancy	Raynes: reader assumes it's working with data that can be safely round-tripped to/from UTF-16
22:39	technomancy	which is not true of jay pee gee files
22:40	Raynes	Oh, right. I didn't think about what we were reading here.
22:40	twiles	yeah technomancy that's correct
22:40	twiles	it didn't work out
22:40	Raynes	I think you can just copy the stream directly.
22:41	Raynes	I'm don't think it is necessary to actually have a reader in between.
22:41	technomancy	yup
22:41	Raynes	twiles: ^
22:41	Raynes	I'm just so used to wrapping everything in reader.
22:41	Raynes	:p
22:43	twiles	do I have to do any decrypting? I'm not 100% sure how the attachment file is stored, and it looks like the output file didn't get written correctly
22:44	twiles	I tried: (def stream (.getContent (.getBodyPart (.getContent (get-message email-5)) 1)))
22:44	twiles	(copy stream (file "/tmp/delme.jpg"))
22:44	twiles	returned nil
22:44	twiles	but then the /tmp/delme.jpg file doesn't open
22:46	twiles	sorry decode, not decrypt
22:47	hiredman	the body part of an email is almost certainly not a jpg
22:48	hiredman	email messages and attachments can be nested in all kinds of creative ways
22:50	twiles	yeah, I think I've taken care of that nesting issure here: (.getContentType (.getBodyPart (.getContent (get-message email-5)) 1))
22:50	twiles	-->"image/jpeg; name=\"tinyvices_wayne.jpg\""
22:52	hiredman	I would try .writeTo then, and look at the output
22:55	RazWelles	how do I set the clojure.load.path variable?
22:58	technomancy	RazWelles: I don't think anyone in here knows clojure.clr
22:58	RazWelles	technomancy, damn :\
22:59	RazWelles	how do you set it from inside the java clojure repl?
22:59	RazWelles	maybe its the same
22:59	technomancy	you don't; you have to set it before the process boots
22:59	technomancy	java -cp ...
22:59	RazWelles	ahh I see
23:01	Frozenlock	Is clojure.clr a complete clojure?
23:10	Frozenlock	crickets
23:10	Frozenlock	I guess there clojure.clr isn't that popular :P
23:11	ambrosebs	IIRC it's not too popular but there are people using it in production
23:11	ambrosebs	No personal experience though.
23:11	ambrosebs	It's certainly active.
23:23	RazWelles	technomancy, I discovered the solution, you have to create an environment variable called CLOJURE_LOAD_PATH and add your project directory there for 'require to work
23:35	RazWelles	I don't suppose offhand anyone knows the general frequency for the formation of an inhibitory synapse
23:55	technomancy	RazWelles: depends on whether you can reverse the polarity of the neutron flow
23:57	RazWelles	technomancy, whoops, that was meant for another channel but, I never heard of neutron flow in terms of synapses o.o
23:57	technomancy	well once the tachyons are emitted of course there's a much greater range of flux
23:58	RazWelles	ok now you're just being silly :P
23:58	Frozenlock	That wouldn't work anyway; the warp drive would fail before that, cause the dilithium crytals couldn't handle this change.
23:58	RazWelles	xD
23:58	Frozenlock	But you could ask Q.
23:58	technomancy	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Doctor#.22Reverse_the_polarity.22
23:59	Frozenlock	What about the tachyons?
23:59	RazWelles	I still need to watch the older episodes of dr who