2013-02-15
| 01:38 | Frozenlock | from wikipedia: "Clojure (pronounced like "closure")" |
| 01:38 | Frozenlock | That's a joke, right? |
| 01:38 | Raynes | Frozenlock: No? |
| 01:39 | Raynes | I mean, the pronunciation should be IPA probably. |
| 01:39 | Raynes | But that is accurate. |
| 01:39 | Frozenlock | IPA? |
| 01:40 | Raynes | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet |
| 01:41 | Frozenlock | o_O |
| 01:41 | Frozenlock | Yet I'm sure I've always heard cloJure. My brain is failing me. |
| 01:44 | spjt | It's a pun. |
| 01:45 | spjt | my cousin saw a book and called it clo-JOOR like it was French |
| 01:45 | amalloy | Frozenlock: nobody really bothers to put in enough emphasis to make the j sound distinct from the...zh sound in closure or measure |
| 01:51 | arrdem_ | I say cloJer too... |
| 01:55 | arrdem_ | anyone tried using congomongo's gridfs stuff? |
| 01:57 | spjt | it's pronounced "latek" |
| 01:58 | spjt | the X is chi, not "x" |
| 01:58 | Frozenlock | I know. |
| 01:58 | Frozenlock | I'm a rebel. |
| 02:00 | spjt | hipster language.... |
| 02:00 | spjt | I'm still in school, the hipsters like Java. |
| 02:00 | Raynes | gf3: You still working on refheap colors and stuff? |
| 02:00 | arrdem_ | spjt: I see what you did there |
| 02:02 | hyPiRion | oh man. I knew that it was possible to embed videos into pdfs, so I wondered how you'd do that in LaTeX. |
| 02:03 | hyPiRion | Apparently "LaTeX video" on Google didn't give me what I expected |
| 02:03 | Frozenlock | Raynes: In tryclj you've given an expiration date to the sandboxed namespace. As it seems to be associated with the session, wouldn't it just go away when the user closes his browser? |
| 02:03 | spjt | There's one guy who likes Haskell, he is a hipster, with all the tattoos and hipster glasses and skinny jeans |
| 02:03 | Raynes | Frozenlock: *shrug* |
| 02:04 | spjt | did you try "embed video into latex pdf" |
| 02:04 | hyPiRion | spjt: yeah |
| 02:05 | hyPiRion | I found what I wanted by attaching "embed pdf" |
| 02:05 | spjt | hyPiRion: sorry, I'm dense. |
| 02:06 | hyPiRion | It's like the time I found this neat tool named Rubber for LaTeX. That's even worse |
| 02:07 | spjt | The best thing I've found about clojure so far is that sometimes my professors let us write a program in a language of our choice, so I write it in clojure, and they can't understand it, or compile it. |
| 02:07 | arrdem | lol |
| 02:07 | arrdem | I tried that but the CS machines don't have clj or lein |
| 02:07 | arrdem | and the rule is that you have to be able to build from source on DPT machines |
| 02:07 | arrdem | so... common lisp it is |
| 02:08 | spjt | this prof is new and didn't say anything about it having to be available anywhere. We needed to include "instructions to build", which was too long for him to bother |
| 02:08 | hyPiRion | spjt: I just point them in the direction of Leiningen and tell them "lein uberjar" + java -jar uberjar |
| 03:13 | JanxSpirit_ | how can I make this work? (str "sale" "20%") |
| 03:15 | magopian | JanxSpirit_: what's your question? |
| 03:15 | magopian | ,(str "sale" "20%") |
| 03:15 | clojurebot | "sale20%" |
| 03:16 | magopian | what does "work" mean to you? What are you trying to achieve? |
| 03:16 | JanxSpirit_ | hmm.it's not working in a repl for me when a % is in one of the strings |
| 03:18 | JanxSpirit_ | hmm...only in emacs using C-M-X |
| 03:18 | JanxSpirit_ | it works at a normal shell repl in lein |
| 03:24 | thorwil | ,(str "sale" "20" \%) |
| 03:24 | clojurebot | "sale20%" |
| 03:25 | thorwil | JanxSpirit_: ^ how does emacs think about that? |
| 03:45 | JanxSpirit_ | thorwil: still doesn't like it that way |
| 03:47 | Raynes | Dear persons and personettes. |
| 03:47 | Raynes | I just moved www.refheap.com back to my an amalloy_'s linode. Through blood sweat and tears, I believe I have persevered. |
| 03:48 | Raynes | However, this was over the last couple of hours. The domain changes may have not propagated to you yet, so if you see a maintenance page, that's the old Heroku server that I've brought down. You can wait or you can set your hosts file to what raynes.me resolves to. |
| 04:01 | tomoj | so a loop with 5 bindings can't have primitive support, right? |
| 04:25 | broquaint | Nice one, Raynes. |
| 04:26 | ifesdjeen | w000t Raynes great! teh best pastebin service ;) |
| 04:53 | opa | hi. can someone help me how can i install leiningen with java 1.6? i tried to google a bit but couldn't find the answer |
| 05:04 | thorwil | opa: seen "Install" on http://leiningen.org/ ? |
| 05:06 | thorwil | opa: since lein is a bash script, java version doesn't matter there |
| 05:06 | opa | i forgot to mention, i have the leiningen installed but it uses java 1.7. i have to get it to use 1.6 |
| 05:06 | opa | so its configurable in the batch? |
| 05:11 | maio | lein contains: export JAVA_CMD="${JAVA_CMD:-"java"}" |
| 05:11 | maio | export LEIN_JAVA_CMD="${LEIN_JAVA_CMD:-$JAVA_CMD}" |
| 05:11 | maio | so I guess you just set LEIN_JAVA_CMD to desired java binary |
| 05:12 | thorwil | seems there is a :java-cmd key |
| 05:13 | babilen | opa: Just make sure "java" is "java 1.6" and not "java 1.7" -- Which platform/os is this on? |
| 05:14 | opa | i figured out that the reson was that i had java.exe on system32 which was in PATH before my explicit jdk. thanks for your help |
| 07:09 | t-goossens | why would emacs be more suitable than vim for clojure programming? It's just, in all the talks i watch, they are always using emacs |
| 07:09 | t-goossens | (almost) |
| 07:09 | t-goossens | is there any (non religious) reason? |
| 07:10 | borkdude | t-goossens apart from religion, no |
| 07:10 | borkdude | t-goossens emacs works well with parens (paredit), I have no idea how that is in vim |
| 07:10 | t-goossens | vim has paredit if you want |
| 07:11 | t-goossens | sublime also (although still in development i think) |
| 07:11 | borkdude | t-goossens and emacs is driven by elisp, which is also a lisp, so this draws a lot of lispy people there maybe |
| 07:12 | borkdude | t-goossens and because of that growing amount, clojure supports gets better and better? |
| 07:12 | t-goossens | its just |
| 07:13 | hyPiRion | I would suppose, since elisp and lisp has usually been developed on emacs, that emacs has simply better support for clojure to begin with |
| 07:13 | t-goossens | if i'm about to learn to work with a fancy editor |
| 07:13 | t-goossens | for other languages than clojure |
| 07:13 | t-goossens | is there any more suitable editor? |
| 07:13 | borkdude | t-goossens for Java I still would choose Eclipse/IntelliJ etc |
| 07:13 | hyPiRion | t-goossens: define "other languages" |
| 07:13 | t-goossens | well |
| 07:13 | t-goossens | the languages that i have in mind |
| 07:14 | borkdude | t-goossens but for other "languages" that involve text, like latex, html, etc, I like emacs best until no |
| 07:14 | hyPiRion | (I still program in Eclipse for java too, borkdude. Though I'm working on setting up CEDET, so maybe that would change things) |
| 07:14 | borkdude | w |
| 07:14 | t-goossens | python, ruby, scala |
| 07:14 | borkdude | hyPiRion I tried setting up some java stuff in emacs, but it wasn't giving me any benefit |
| 07:14 | t-goossens | javascript |
| 07:14 | borkdude | t-goossens I also use it for javascript |
| 07:15 | hyPiRion | borkdude: ah. Some friend of mine have a very nice CEDET setup for C++ (Think Eclipse + emacs), so I assume it's portable to java as well. |
| 07:15 | hyPiRion | t-goossens: Well, you could either pick Vim or Emacs |
| 07:16 | hyPiRion | I don't think there's any major difference really, as long as you pick one of them |
| 07:17 | borkdude | hyPiRion I don't want to spend a day configuring stuff |
| 07:17 | borkdude | t-goossens one thing that also makes emacs worthy is org-mode |
| 07:17 | hyPiRion | borkdude: Ah, I usually tend to procrastinate by tweaking my setup |
| 07:17 | ChongLi | anyone here looked at LLJS? |
| 07:17 | ChongLi | http://mbebenita.github.com/LLJS/ |
| 07:17 | borkdude | hyPiRion I recognize that, but I've been doing it too much |
| 07:17 | hyPiRion | hehe |
| 07:18 | ljos | borkdude: if you want to do Java in emacs you should look at emacs-eclim. |
| 07:18 | ChongLi | this seems really interesting |
| 07:18 | ChongLi | as a faster compile target |
| 07:19 | hyPiRion | (inc ljos) |
| 07:19 | lazybot | ⇒ 1 |
| 07:19 | hyPiRion | thanks |
| 07:19 | borkdude | ljos tnx |
| 07:21 | borkdude | t-goossens maybe Raynes has writting something about emacs/vi, he tried vi for a while |
| 07:21 | borkdude | written |
| 07:22 | hyPiRion | I've heard people have used evil for emacs for some time now |
| 07:22 | borkdude | t-goossens for my students I just recommend Eclipse - I don't want to make clojure more difficult for them than necessary |
| 07:22 | hyPiRion | I think one of the Stuarts use it. |
| 07:23 | borkdude | t-goossens I could try recommending LightTable this year, but it's still a bit unstable |
| 07:23 | ljos | hyPiRion: I use |
| 07:23 | ljos | evil mode some times. |
| 07:23 | ljos | it works good. |
| 07:23 | borkdude | t-goossens one step that helped me most in learning emacs why disable the menu by default |
| 07:23 | borkdude | why=was |
| 07:24 | borkdude | t-goossens and just type M-x commands when you don't remember the key combinatino for some command |
| 07:27 | t-goossens | borkdude: a few months ago i played with lighttable for a while (it was one of the first experiences I had with clojure actually) |
| 07:35 | borkdude | gtg |
| 08:19 | dog_cat11 | has anyone noticed instability in lein 2? |
| 08:19 | dog_cat11 | I installed it, it worked, then I started getting error opening up lein repl. The error mesg was something about not being able to open up a port |
| 08:20 | dog_cat11 | I reinstalled, it fixed the problem, then happened again |
| 08:47 | hyPiRion | dog_cat11: uh, lein repl only? |
| 08:47 | hyPiRion | what are you running on? |
| 08:48 | vijaykiran | dog_cat11: did you check if something else wasn't blocking the port ? or perhaps the prev. lein process is still lying around ? |
| 08:49 | hyPiRion | vijaykiran: that shouldn't be an issue, it just picks a random port every time |
| 08:49 | hyPiRion | the last one, that is |
| 08:50 | Anderkent|away | hyPiRion: it's possible some plugin is making it run with a constant jvm debug port for example |
| 08:51 | hyPiRion | Anderkent: yeah, what I was saying is that it shouldn't be an issue with the repl |
| 08:55 | dog_cat11 | mac os x 10.7 w/o root privilage |
| 08:55 | dog_cat11 | its a work computer |
| 08:57 | dog_cat11 | i'll check, there could be another lein process in the bkgrnd |
| 09:08 | morrifeldman | I'm in a nrepl session and I typed a mismatched bracket and pressed return. Now I can't figure out how to cancel the botched command. Any advice? |
| 09:09 | vijaykiran | morrifeldman: C-q ? |
| 09:09 | hetano | C-c C-b I think |
| 09:10 | morrifeldman | I'm started the nrepl using lein repl from the command line, not in emacs |
| 09:11 | vijaykiran | morrifeldman: not sure what you mean - but you can try Ctrl-D or Ctrl-C and return ? |
| 09:12 | morrifeldman | I can do ^D to kill the repl completely, but I'd prefer to figure out how to just cancel out of the command |
| 09:12 | morrifeldman | Ctrl-C is not doing anything for me. I'm on OSX if that is relevant. |
| 09:14 | vijaykiran | do you mean you are at "#_=> " ? |
| 09:14 | morrifeldman | vijaykiran: Yes! |
| 09:14 | vijaykiran | morrifeldman: just try ))))) and enter :) |
| 09:15 | vijaykiran | morrifeldman: it should fail with "RuntimeException Unmatched delimiter: ) " |
| 09:18 | morrifeldman | Thanks! Sometimes )))))) doesn't work for me, but I'm not sure why |
| 09:19 | vijaykiran | morrifeldman: may be you are too deep in the parens and need to type more :) |
| 09:19 | Anderkent | How can I call a private function from a macro? (it's in the same ns as the macro, but not in the same ns as where the macro is used) |
| 09:19 | morrifeldman | cool. Thanks! |
| 09:28 | TimMc | Anderkent: Make it public and note that it isn't part of the API? :-/ |
| 09:29 | Anderkent | TimMc: went with (deref (var fn-name)) instead... Rather unhappy with that though ;P |
| 09:29 | morrifeldman | Is there a combination of cons and conj? I'd like to do the following: (XXX "test1" ["test2" "test3"] "test4") and get out ["test1" "test2" "test3" "test4"], where XXX is the function I'm looking for. |
| 09:30 | Chousuke | morrifeldman: putting stuff in front of a vector involves a full copy. |
| 09:30 | Chousuke | unless you're okay with making it a lazy seq instead and losing indexed access. |
| 09:32 | morrifeldman | Any kind of sequence is OK and I don't have any performance worries. |
| 09:33 | Chousuke | morrifeldman: then you can use concat and wrap the head and tail in something seqable. |
| 09:37 | noncom | In clojure one does not usually specify types. Then, is there a way to know what type of arguments is expected by a function, by looking at its signature, except than refering to a documentation? |
| 09:40 | Anderkent | noncom: not usually - docs are your go-to. You can get them in a repl using (clojure.repl/doc <fn-symbol>) |
| 09:40 | TimMc | Just (doc foo). |
| 09:40 | Anderkent | assuming you have clojure.repl refered, sure |
| 09:41 | TimMc | If that doesn't work, (use 'clojure.repl) at the beginning of the session. |
| 09:41 | Anderkent | doesn't help if you switch namespaces often |
| 09:51 | jcidaho | Hi - nrepl.el has some hotkeys that clash with paredit - for example M-r...? |
| 09:57 | noncom | i see! |
| 09:57 | noncom | and the docs usually describe that just textually, right? |
| 09:58 | noncom | like "... expects an integer and a vector..." |
| 10:03 | reiddraper | TimMc: yeah, was scheduled for valentine's day, and we had no speaker, so figured it was best to just wait till march |
| 10:05 | noncom | ppl, please see my question above! thanx)) |
| 10:06 | Anderkent | noncom: you're mostly correct - though docstrings can be anything really, so it depends on what code you're workign with |
| 10:09 | TimMc | reiddraper: Ah yeah, would have conflicted with a lot of dinner plans. |
| 10:09 | TimMc | There didn't seem to be a cancellation announcement, though. |
| 10:13 | rplaca | Anderkent: your private function thing is kind of an idiom, though folks usually use the reader macros: (@#'myns/foo ...) |
| 10:14 | canweriotnow | So… macro question... |
| 10:14 | canweriotnow | I'm using a lib with a macro that expects a vector literal of symbols. |
| 10:16 | canweriotnow | I'm trying to provide this programmatically. If I pass it a var of that vector, it fails. If I generate the vector with a fn, it also fails. The only thing that works is a vector literal. |
| 10:16 | ChongLi | canweriotnow: yes |
| 10:16 | canweriotnow | Is there any way to force evaluation before the macro sees it? |
| 10:16 | ChongLi | canweriotnow: no |
| 10:16 | ChongLi | macros do not exist at run time |
| 10:17 | ChongLi | they can only work on literal forms |
| 10:17 | canweriotnow | that's… annoying. but thanks for the info. I was tearing my hair out :) |
| 10:17 | ChongLi | why is it annoying? |
| 10:18 | ChongLi | if you need evaluation at run-time use a function :) |
| 10:18 | canweriotnow | The macro in question is for templating PDF generation. |
| 10:18 | noncom | thanx!!! |
| 10:18 | canweriotnow | Yeah, I'm going to replace that functionality with an fn |
| 10:19 | canweriotnow | I think it's a 'convenience macro' in that lib, just happens to be inconvenient for me :) |
| 10:19 | canweriotnow | thanks |
| 10:19 | ChongLi | basically all macros are 'convenience macros' |
| 10:19 | ChongLi | they exist only to clean up the structure of your code |
| 10:19 | canweriotnow | gotcha. |
| 10:28 | canweriotnow | Hah. I gave up on the damn macro, used a nested data structure, first and rest. |
| 10:28 | canweriotnow | data structures > fns > macros |
| 10:30 | cheekee | (clojure.set/difference #{1 2 3} #{2}) |
| 10:31 | cheekee | when I type (clojure.set/difference #{1 2 3} #{2}) I get a ClassNotFoundException clojure.set error |
| 10:32 | cheekee | does anyone know why? |
| 10:33 | ChongLi | works fine for me |
| 10:33 | ChongLi | did you (require 'clojure.set) ? |
| 10:33 | abp | ^ cause require is load |
| 10:35 | cheekee | I tried (:require clojure.set) and got CompilerException java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.set, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:41) |
| 10:35 | ChongLi | inside the (ns ...) form? |
| 10:35 | abp | cheeke that's only for use in ns |
| 10:36 | cheekee | I am a noob to clojure...I don't know what ns is |
| 10:37 | ChongLi | ns is the namespace form |
| 10:38 | ChongLi | are you working in the repl or in a source code file? |
| 10:40 | clgv | cheekee: then better get started by reading a clojure book. otherwise you will stumble from error to error not knowing why it failed until your disappointment grows large enough to quit learning clojure ;) |
| 10:43 | cheekee | I am using repl and I am reading a clojure chapter in a book now |
| 10:44 | cheekee | difference is the author had leiningen and I just used Ubuntu's version |
| 10:44 | cheekee | (require 'clojure.set) |
| 10:45 | headshot | i'd start by hitting the leiningen site, and going down that path |
| 10:45 | cheekee | sorry mistype |
| 10:45 | TimMc | cheekee: Don't use what Ubuntu packages for you, it's super out of date. :-/ |
| 10:46 | headshot | save you a lot of headaches with regards to dependencies, etc |
| 10:48 | cheekee | ok! anyway I got clojure.set working with what I just mistyped |
| 10:49 | TimMc | cheekee: Someone on the Debian end of things is working on setting up proper packaging of lein, but I don't know when that will hit Ubuntu's repos. |
| 10:51 | ChongLi | pimeys: you use Xmonad right? |
| 10:53 | pimeys | ChongLi: yup |
| 10:53 | pimeys | awesome, xmonad, i3 are all good |
| 10:53 | ChongLi | pimeys: yeah I use xmonad too |
| 10:53 | pimeys | I just somehow choose xmonad, and I cannot change anymore :D |
| 10:53 | ChongLi | hopefully people in that thread will check it out |
| 10:54 | ChongLi | too many people equate linux with whatever comes with ubuntu |
| 10:54 | pimeys | I mean, every time I hear somebody saying linux is slow for work, I want to hit him in the face :D |
| 10:54 | pimeys | nothing is faster than a good tiling wm + a good editor |
| 10:55 | ChongLi | and good hotkeys for everything |
| 10:55 | pimeys | yes. |
| 10:55 | hashbang1 | pimeys: i loved awesome, i need to go back and give it another try. it has been a while |
| 10:55 | ChongLi | I'm still messing around with my setup |
| 10:55 | pimeys | and I really love xmonad's way of handling the desktops |
| 10:55 | pimeys | you can select your desktop for every monitor |
| 10:55 | ChongLi | xmonad gets confused when you do a lot of nesting of layouts |
| 10:56 | pimeys | and select a different way of handling the windows for every desktop |
| 10:56 | ChongLi | perhaps I should just write a layout straight-up |
| 10:56 | pimeys | I'm using tabbed, tall, mirrored tall, grid and a special gimp layout |
| 10:57 | ChongLi | can you assign hotkeys for tabbed? |
| 10:57 | pimeys | ChongLi: what kind of? |
| 10:57 | pimeys | just using the same hotkeys as with every layout |
| 10:57 | clojurebot | excusez-moi |
| 10:57 | ChongLi | for switching tabs |
| 10:57 | pimeys | cmd + j and k |
| 10:58 | ChongLi | I have meta + h j k l for navigation |
| 10:58 | ChongLi | using XMonad.Actions.WindowNavigation |
| 10:58 | pimeys | hmm, cmd + h and l changes the horizontal size of a split |
| 10:59 | pimeys | j and k browses through windows |
| 10:59 | kryft | pimeys: Is 'tabbed' the one where each window is full-screen and you switch between them using cmd + j/k? |
| 10:59 | pimeys | yep |
| 10:59 | ChongLi | WindowNavigation does 2D browsing |
| 10:59 | ChongLi | in screen-space |
| 10:59 | pimeys | and you have a slim tab on top of the window |
| 10:59 | pimeys | where you can see all open windows |
| 10:59 | pimeys | and even *gasp* click them |
| 10:59 | ChongLi | if you have nested layouts then the 1D ordering of windows is non-obvious |
| 11:00 | seangrov` | Damnit, is there a way to unsubscribe from this goddamn "Why is this so hard" thread? |
| 11:01 | ChongLi | I use meta-shift-h & l for sizing windows |
| 11:05 | Anderkent | In midje: can I have around :facts backgrounds only happen around outermost facts? Alternatively, can I provide messages for assertions in some different way than nesting facts? |
| 11:07 | mpenet | Oddly enough I almost exclusively use full screen windows in xmonad, only 1 shortcut to learn: alt-tab. Yup that lazy |
| 11:08 | pimeys | I like tabbed better |
| 11:08 | mpenet | defeats the purpose of the whole tiling thing but anyway |
| 11:08 | pimeys | almost like full, but you have some indicator what's open |
| 11:08 | pimeys | especially with my laptop |
| 11:08 | pimeys | at work I have enough screen space for grid layout |
| 11:08 | ChongLi | I have all these different workspaces setup with complicated layouts |
| 11:08 | mpenet | yeah, I forgot about that. spaces and the occasional 2 window view |
| 11:09 | mpenet | my config is around 20 lines or so max |
| 11:09 | ChongLi | mine's 398! |
| 11:09 | mpenet | I had a huge one at some point |
| 11:09 | ChongLi | a lot of comments and blank lines though |
| 11:09 | mpenet | but the defaults are just fine in most cases |
| 11:09 | pimeys | I would love if the xmonad config would be lisp instead of haskell :P |
| 11:10 | ChongLi | I don't mind the haskell |
| 11:10 | pimeys | well, it's a nice language, but I don't want to write it so much |
| 11:10 | pimeys | too strict for me ;) |
| 11:10 | ChongLi | I think the type safety is really nice for this |
| 11:10 | pimeys | it is |
| 11:10 | pimeys | and the type system altogether is very good |
| 11:10 | ChongLi | you can just try stuff and then fix the type errors and it works |
| 11:11 | mpenet | a bit scary for newcomers |
| 11:11 | pimeys | I think I'll learn ML instead, when I want to jump on that train |
| 11:11 | pimeys | but not now |
| 11:11 | ChongLi | runtime errors would be very annoying with such complicated configs like this |
| 11:11 | ChongLi | I don't know if you'll get as much of a benefit with ML |
| 11:12 | ChongLi | if you're already using clojure you're programming in a non-pure language |
| 11:12 | pimeys | I know, and not even a real functional language |
| 11:12 | ChongLi | ML is basically the same thing without the lisp syntax |
| 11:12 | pimeys | I can do closures and give them names to get objects :D |
| 11:13 | pimeys | and I can do side effects |
| 11:13 | pimeys | ML has a type system |
| 11:13 | ChongLi | haskell is a radical departure which is very nice |
| 11:14 | ChongLi | learning monads really expands your way of thinking |
| 11:14 | ChongLi | it's the one thing I really miss in clojure |
| 11:15 | hyPiRion | ChongLi: Tried working with unbounded "variables" before? |
| 11:15 | hyPiRion | That's also amazing |
| 11:15 | ChongLi | unbounded variables? you mean like logic variables? |
| 11:16 | hyPiRion | kind of, but not exactly |
| 11:17 | hyPiRion | Say you have two variables, X and Y. You then define X to be a set containing Y, then unify Y with X |
| 11:17 | hyPiRion | Now X contains itself |
| 11:17 | ChongLi | didn't X start out containing everything? |
| 11:18 | hyPiRion | In clojure terms: (unbound [x y] (unify x #{y}) (unify y x)) |
| 11:18 | hyPiRion | now (= x (get x x)) |
| 11:20 | ChongLi | hmmm |
| 11:20 | hyPiRion | Check out Mozart/Oz, dnolen can vouch for that. |
| 11:22 | ChongLi | checking it out |
| 11:24 | ChongLi | dataflow variables |
| 11:25 | ChongLi | weird how they use % for comments |
| 11:25 | hyPiRion | yeah, that's the name |
| 11:27 | hyPiRion | I thought ; was weird for comments, coming from Java and all. |
| 11:27 | TimMc | imma make a language where the comments are ( in parens ) |
| 11:28 | lucian | TimMc: doesn't forth do that? |
| 11:29 | TimMc | ,(let [a (object-array 32), v (vec a)] (aset a 0 v) (= v (v 0))) |
| 11:29 | clojurebot | true |
| 11:39 | gf3 | Raynes: Yeah, just been ultra busy with work :-( |
| 11:55 | clojure-newb | hey guys, how do I turn a LazySeq ({:k "val"}) into a collection like [{:k "val"}] ? |
| 11:56 | ChongLi | clojure-newb: into |
| 11:56 | ChongLi | ,(into [] '({:k "val"})) |
| 11:56 | clojurebot | [{:k "val"}] |
| 11:56 | clojure-newb | ChongLi: thanks |
| 11:59 | ayia | HI Guys. I am reading http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Learning_Clojure/Macros. Found such a line of code: (defonce *conn* nil). Is there any special reason for using "*" around conn? And common clojure coding guideline? What's the meaning? |
| 11:59 | TimMc | Those are earmuffs, indicating a dynamic var. (Just a convention, but long-standing.) |
| 12:00 | egghead | what in the, why does clj-http lower case all the header names |
| 12:01 | dakrone | egghead: because it reduces header collision and the RFC supports it |
| 12:01 | egghead | ah dakrone I didn't know it was valid by the rfc, think I'll start using lower case exclusively in that case |
| 12:01 | egghead | cheers, thanks for clearing that up |
| 12:02 | dakrone | yea, RFC explicitly says headers should be treated as case-insensitive |
| 12:02 | dakrone | egghead: np, good luck! |
| 12:05 | clgv | TimMc: hey. does lein-otf allow to specify a function that is calle before the real main is loaded? |
| 12:13 | aav | who knows where to find clojure.contrib.seq ? |
| 12:14 | dnolen | aav: clojure.contrib is deprecated and I don't think there's a replacement for that one. |
| 12:15 | llasram | Most of the useful stuff made it into clojure.core though, didn't it? |
| 12:15 | aav | i somehow cannot find where "indexed" is |
| 12:15 | aav | there ws such function in contrib.seq |
| 12:16 | aav | found map-indexed in clojure.core |
| 12:16 | aav | thanx |
| 12:26 | TimMc | clgv: Nope, why? |
| 12:27 | clgv | TimMc: I wanted to setup logging beforeanything gets loaded. but now I just use org.apache.log4j.PropertyConfigurator at the beginning of my main function |
| 12:27 | clgv | TimMc: tools.logging should include something to setup logging without a properties file^^ |
| 12:31 | TimMc | You can always emulate lein-otf's behavior yourself; it is extremely simple. |
| 12:34 | TimMc | clgv: (defn -main [& args] (require 'foo.bar) (apply (ns-resolve 'foo.bar '-main) args)) |
| 12:34 | TimMc | Something like that. Put the logging configuration before the require. |
| 13:31 | Raynes | gf3: Just curious. Obviously don't expect you to do anything. Thus is the nature of open sourc. |
| 13:31 | Raynes | source* |
| 13:32 | callenbot | Raynes: what needs changed with refheap colors? |
| 13:32 | gf3 | Raynes: ❤ |
| 13:32 | callenbot | seemed fine to me, although the typography is really weird. |
| 13:32 | gf3 | Raynes: It's gonna happen |
| 13:32 | Raynes | callenbot: Nothing, really. gf3 just wanted to play around with stuff. |
| 13:33 | Raynes | callenbot: Got font suggestions? |
| 13:33 | gf3 | As gf3 is want to do |
| 13:33 | Raynes | I hate choosing fonts. |
| 13:33 | Raynes | I didn't even choose the ones that are there. I always delegate to someone else. |
| 13:36 | technomancy | gf3: I love the mock-ups you did for clojars. if you're busy would you mind if we got some folks to work them into the clojars codebase? |
| 13:37 | gf3 | technomancy: Of course not, by all means |
| 13:37 | gf3 | technomancy: I'll have some spare time in ~2 weeks |
| 13:37 | cemerick | gf3: got a link handy? |
| 13:37 | gf3 | technomancy: If you need things like custom icons, logos, tweaks |
| 13:37 | technomancy | gf3: well no pressure of course; just wanted to check. |
| 13:38 | callenbot | Raynes: A few. Typography is an interest of mine. I will experiment locally and get back to you. |
| 13:38 | technomancy | I don't think we have anyone ready to give it a go right now, but I thought I might go asking for help at some point since the current design is pretty dated. |
| 13:39 | callenbot | gf3: are you a designer? |
| 13:39 | gf3 | callenbot: Sometimes |
| 13:39 | callenbot | gf3: how came you to Clojure? |
| 13:39 | SegFaultAX | technomancy: Have you been following the recent HN drama re: Heroku? Do you have any thoughts on it? |
| 13:39 | gf3 | callenbot: Through Scheme, Racket specifically |
| 13:40 | gf3 | technomancy: If you don't find anyone in the next ~2 weeks I can cut it up |
| 13:40 | callenbot | gf3: how interested are you in collabs? |
| 13:40 | callenbot | gf3: I build a lot of side projects - web apps in Clojure. |
| 13:40 | gf3 | callenbot: I love collaborating |
| 13:41 | callenbot | gf3: can I /query you to trade contact info? |
| 13:41 | technomancy | SegFaultAX: I do, but I'm not supposed to talk about it. there's a technical response that should be posted soon. |
| 13:41 | callenbot | SegFaultAX: I can talk about it. |
| 13:41 | callenbot | SegFaultAX: I'm not a Heroku employee. |
| 13:41 | SegFaultAX | technomancy: Oh, sorry. :) |
| 13:41 | ravster | hello all |
| 13:41 | callenbot | SegFaultAX: RG's complaints aren't very substantive. |
| 13:41 | callenbot | SegFaultAX: what do you want to know? |
| 13:42 | callenbot | ravster: hi |
| 13:42 | SegFaultAX | technomancy: Either way, this isn't something that materially affects you, is it? It seems isolated to Bamboo and the Clojure stuff is all Cedar, yea? |
| 13:42 | Raynes | SegFaultAX: What drama? |
| 13:42 | SegFaultAX | Raynes: Sec, lemme get you a link. |
| 13:42 | Raynes | SegFaultAX: Found it. |
| 13:42 | callenbot | SegFaultAX: more or less. You're supposed to be on Cedar running concurrent workers. |
| 13:42 | SegFaultAX | callenbot: Honestly, I thought Heroku was phasing out bamboo entirely. |
| 13:43 | SegFaultAX | It's been second class for at least the last year or two. |
| 13:43 | callenbot | SegFaultAX: correct. |
| 13:43 | Raynes | technomancy: One thing Heroku taught me that benefitted me moving back to linode is how easy it is to configure things if you use environment variables. |
| 13:43 | SegFaultAX | I started using Heroku right about when Cedar was made publicly available. |
| 13:43 | callenbot | SegFaultAX: the whole situation is silly. Yes random routing is sub-optimal, no it shouldn't matter. |
| 13:44 | gf3 | cemerick: PM? |
| 13:44 | cemerick | gf3: sure |
| 13:44 | Raynes | gf3: My God, you said you were a designer and everybody is lining up to eat your soul. |
| 13:44 | SegFaultAX | Raynes: The other thing Heroku taught me when I moved back to Linode is how awesome LXC containers are! |
| 13:45 | callenbot | Raynes: shush you. |
| 13:45 | callenbot | SegFaultAX: that too. |
| 13:45 | SegFaultAX | callenbot: Especially for a site the size of Rap Genius, why the hell would they still be using Bamboo? |
| 13:45 | callenbot | SegFaultAX: also LXC container is like ATM machine. |
| 13:45 | callenbot | SegFaultAX: I don't think RG is known for their technical competence or expertise. |
| 13:45 | SegFaultAX | callenbot: I know, I realized that after I wrote it. |
| 13:46 | SegFaultAX | But LX container sounds weird. |
| 13:46 | callenbot | SegFaultAX: they're hustlers selling eyeballs. |
| 13:46 | callenbot | and after seeing how they handled the Heroku situation, I know definitely not to work with them |
| 13:46 | SegFaultAX | callenbot: I'd never heard of them until this drama came out. |
| 13:46 | callenbot | because they'll bitch loudly about things they don't really understand. |
| 13:46 | callenbot | SegFaultAX: I work at a YC company, I can't say which. |
| 13:46 | callenbot | SegFaultAX: so I know of them. |
| 13:48 | SegFaultAX | callenbot: In fairness, they did say in that article that they don't know anything about ops, and they don't want to (which is probably why most people use Heroku to begin with) |
| 13:48 | gf3 | Raynes: Joke's on them—I'm soulless |
| 13:48 | technomancy | the armchair architects are really annoying with the whole "It's easy; just assume it's possible to have complete instantaneous knowledge of the state of the entire cluster, and then you just ..." |
| 13:49 | technomancy | it's the programmer equivalent of "assume a frictionless vacuum" |
| 13:49 | bbloom | technomancy: heh, that's a great analogy |
| 13:50 | bawr | technomancy: I laughed hearily, kudos for that description/ |
| 13:50 | gfredericks | so "heroku's tech is terrible" is a different claim from "it now costs 50x more to get the same perf and they never said so" |
| 13:50 | SegFaultAX | technomancy: Did you see that xpost from elance on HN yesterday? It's particularly relevant to your analogy. |
| 13:51 | bbloom | it's kinda a bummer because we moved off heroku after about a year b/c we simply couldn't understand, predict, or improve our performance for our rails app. i wish the abstraction worked for ever and never leaked. it's really a great platform for getting started & i recommend it to a ton of folks. but you need to jump in the deep end much sooner than many folks do |
| 13:51 | SegFaultAX | https://www.elance.com/j/website-like-amazon/37294947/ |
| 13:53 | callenbot | bbloom: that's been my experience as well, but I still use it for side projects. |
| 13:57 | ppppaul | hey guys. i'm having issues with this code: -> (io/copy (io/file source-path) (io/file dest-path)) |
| 13:57 | ppppaul | sometimes it works, sometimes it hangs |
| 13:57 | ppppaul | the output is created by the copy. io/ = clojure.java.io |
| 13:58 | ppppaul | i'm reading from the file system and writing to the file system |
| 14:00 | SegFaultAX | ppppaul: Are source-path and dest-path ever the same? |
| 14:00 | ppppaul | i hope not |
| 14:01 | ppppaul | i will wrap my code in a 'when |
| 14:01 | ppppaul | the thing is, this code is running in a test |
| 14:01 | ppppaul | and the test data is always the same |
| 14:01 | ppppaul | sometimes the code runs fine, sometimes it stalls and i have to do nrepl-interupt |
| 14:04 | ppppaul | in my tests i'm transferring 416 files |
| 14:04 | ppppaul | could i be hitting an open file cap (i'm doing these copy's in sequence, so i expect the streams to be closed by io/copy (it is opening the streams) |
| 14:06 | callenbot | ppppaul: stop opening the files without closing them |
| 14:06 | callenbot | ppppaul: http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.java.io/copy |
| 14:07 | mefesto | io/copy will close streams that it opens itself which is what i think ppppaul was saying |
| 14:08 | callenbot | should. |
| 14:12 | ppppaul | yeah... actually, now that i inspect my file system, it seems like the destination folders have the copied files in them... so maybe my bug is somewhere after the code that copies |
| 14:31 | Frozenlock | Anybody knows how to give socketpermissions in clojail? "java.security.AccessControlException: access denied ("java.net.SocketPermission" "<someIP>:47808" "connect,resolve")" |
| 14:33 | Raynes | You cant to give socket permissions to the sandboxed code? |
| 14:33 | Raynes | Er, want* |
| 14:34 | Frozenlock | Yes I want :) |
| 14:35 | dnolen | this is pretty interesting http://asmjs.org/spec/latest/ |
| 14:35 | SegFaultAX | dnolen: I was just reading that as well. |
| 14:35 | Raynes | Frozenlock: I'm fuzzy on the topic, but you should look at clojail.jvm/permissions and then change the default :content argument when you call sandbox. Take a look at the default for an example. |
| 14:35 | dnolen | as is this https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=840282 |
| 14:35 | dnolen | w/in 2X of C one some benchmarks |
| 14:35 | Frozenlock | Raynes: Thanks! |
| 14:35 | dnolen | "on some" |
| 14:38 | callenbot | the problem with making something faster than C is that C implementations get to cheat. |
| 14:38 | callenbot | Fortran's main advantage was lost with -fno-alias |
| 14:39 | callenbot | when you get to change the semantics and expectations to suit the use-case, it's hard to compete. |
| 14:43 | clojure-newb | hi guys how do I do a distinct on the value of a specific key in a collection of maps ? IE [{:key1 "12345" :k2 "any val"}{:k1 "12345" :k2 "other val"}] |
| 14:44 | gfredericks | clojure-newb: what do you want the result to be? |
| 14:44 | callenbot | clojure-newb: pretty ambiguous. |
| 14:44 | clojure-newb | gfredericks: [{:key1 "12345" :k2 "any val"}] |
| 14:45 | clojure-newb | gfredericks: no bothered about which one it removes at this point |
| 14:45 | gfredericks | clojure-newb: so always the first one? |
| 14:45 | clojure-newb | gfredericks: yes that will do |
| 14:45 | TimMc | Something with annotation and merge-with, I'd say. |
| 14:45 | gfredericks | ,(#(->> % (group-by :key1) vals (map first)) [{:key1 "12345" :k2 "any val"}{:k1 "12345" :k2 "other val"}]) |
| 14:45 | clojurebot | ({:key1 "12345", :k2 "any val"} {:k1 "12345", :k2 "other val"}) |
| 14:46 | gfredericks | ,(#(->> % (group-by :key1) vals (map first)) [{:key1 "12345" :k2 "any val"}{:key1 "12345" :k2 "other val"}]) |
| 14:46 | clojurebot | ({:key1 "12345", :k2 "any val"}) |
| 14:46 | gfredericks | there we go |
| 14:46 | TimMc | Oh hell, group-by. |
| 14:46 | clojure-newb | gfredericks: thanks, I will give it a go |
| 14:46 | clojure-newb | just processing that :-) |
| 14:46 | gfredericks | that one is guaranteed to give you the first for each key |
| 14:52 | SegFaultAX | gfredericks: Why make it so complicated? |
| 14:52 | SegFaultAX | ,(apply merge (reverse [{:key1 "12345" :k2 "any val"}{:key1 "12345" :k2 "other val"}])) |
| 14:52 | clojurebot | {:key1 "12345", :k2 "any val"} |
| 14:52 | rplaca | right, just use merge |
| 14:53 | rplaca | plus, clojure-newb said he didn't really care which one you picked |
| 14:54 | clojure-newb | that is not returning a sequence of maps |
| 14:54 | clojure-newb | the former solution was |
| 14:54 | SegFaultAX | ,(list (apply merge (reverse [{:key1 "12345" :k2 "any val"}{:key1 "12345" :k2 "other val"}]))) |
| 14:54 | clojurebot | ({:key1 "12345", :k2 "any val"}) |
| 14:55 | rplaca | clojure-newb: you want a list of maps or a vector with a single map? |
| 14:56 | rplaca | if you don't care which result is picked: |
| 14:56 | rplaca | ,(vector (merge {:k1 "12345", :k2 "any val"} {:k1 "789", :k2 "other val"})) |
| 14:56 | clojurebot | [{:k1 "789", :k2 "other val"}] |
| 14:56 | clojure-newb | rplaca: sequence of maps where :k1 value is unique/distinct |
| 14:58 | rplaca | ahh, so you're filtering an original list of maps with some k1s being duplicate into a list with only unique k1s |
| 14:58 | clojure-newb | rplaca: yes |
| 14:58 | rplaca | where k1 is known ahead of time |
| 14:58 | rplaca | ahh, I misunderstood |
| 14:58 | clojure-newb | rplaca: yes |
| 14:58 | clojure-newb | no worries |
| 14:58 | clojure-newb | sorry.. my original question was probably not well phrased |
| 14:59 | rplaca | and I'm doing three things at once! :) |
| 14:59 | clojure-newb | yeah, my brain is pretty much melting too |
| 15:07 | mikerod | Could someone please explain why on several occasions, when in namespace user a record is def'ed, such as (defrecord MyRec [x]) and you do (instance? user.MyRec (map->MyRec{:x "something"})) it is false, but when doing (instance? user.MyRec (eval (map->MyRec{:x "something"}) it is true. |
| 15:08 | mikerod | anything I do to determine what (map->MyRec{:x "something"}) is when it is not user.MyRec ends up evaluating it and saying it is an instance of user.MyRec ... Hopefully I'm explaining this accurately. |
| 15:08 | mikerod | clearly* |
| 15:10 | bbloom | mikerod: if you re-def a type, you've created a new type with the same name, but different runtime values |
| 15:10 | bbloom | mikerod: all of your previous instances and references aren't automatically updated |
| 15:12 | mikerod | bbloom: I'm not sure I follow you on this. |
| 15:13 | mikerod | I only defrecord once |
| 15:13 | bbloom | mikerod: are you re-evaluating the file in which that defrecord occurs? |
| 15:13 | mikerod | the auto-generated map-> factory function seems to not always evaluate as an instance of the type |
| 15:14 | mikerod | No, I'm not reevaluating. |
| 15:14 | bbloom | check (= (class x) (class y)) |
| 15:14 | bbloom | compare to (= (str (class x)) (str (class y))) |
| 15:19 | mikerod | bbloom: both of those checks are true for me |
| 15:20 | mikerod | in the same context where (instance? user.MyRec (map->MyRec{:x "x"})) is false. |
| 15:20 | tekkk | why is this true? (associative? [:a :b]) .. what does associative mean? |
| 15:20 | tekkk | isn't that the key is associated with the value |
| 15:21 | bbloom | mikerod: ok, then i guess i don't undertand. can you provide a minimal reproduction? |
| 15:21 | bbloom | tekkk: vectors are associative, like maps, with respect to integer indexes: |
| 15:21 | bbloom | ,([:a :b :c] 1) |
| 15:22 | clojurebot | :b |
| 15:22 | tekkk | bbloom: i see |
| 15:22 | bbloom | tekkk: lists, however, are not, since they can't provide better than linear runtime for lookups by index |
| 15:22 | bbloom | ,(associative? '(:a :b)) |
| 15:22 | clojurebot | false |
| 15:26 | TimMc | ~seqs and colls |
| 15:26 | clojurebot | seqs and colls is http://www.brainonfire.net/files/seqs-and-colls/main.html |
| 15:26 | amalloy | bbloom: associative is for assoc, not get |
| 15:26 | amalloy | you can be ILookup without being Associative |
| 15:26 | bbloom | amalloy: ah yes, as usual, you are correct. |
| 15:27 | bbloom | tekkk: what amalloy said |
| 15:27 | mikerod | bbloom: I've been trying to recreate the issue in a predictable way. One instance of this is that I tried to do a (is (instance? my.ns.MyRec (map->MyRec{:x 'x}))) in a deftest and it was false/failed. |
| 15:28 | mikerod | so this was in a different namespace i.e. my.test-ns that :use 'my.ns |
| 15:29 | mikerod | sorry :use my.ns (no quote) |
| 15:29 | mikerod | to get the test to pass |
| 15:29 | mikerod | I changed it to (is (instance? my.ns.MyRec (eval (map->MyRec{:x 'x})))) |
| 15:30 | mikerod | So it seems that eval caused the type of the object to become realized for the instance? check... |
| 15:30 | amalloy | stop adding evals. all they are doing is distracting you by hiding the problem; they are not doing anything meaningful |
| 15:31 | amalloy | eval is (probably) effectively round-tripping the record through pr-str and read-string, so that the problem bbloom says you are having gets hidden, by converting the old class into a string name, and then reading it back in as the new class |
| 15:32 | hiredman | you have stale classes |
| 15:33 | mikerod | I "sort of" understand this. I'm not sure what I do to make this happen though. |
| 15:33 | hiredman | e.g. generated via aot or something |
| 15:33 | hiredman | delete them and restart your repl |
| 15:33 | hiredman | they will be in where ever your build tool puts them |
| 15:33 | mikerod | It seems I defrecord in one namespace, but if I use it in another namespace with the factory function map-> , it isn't necessary an instance? of what I expect until it is evaluated. |
| 15:35 | hiredman | mikerod: look, you know nothing about it, stop trying to guess, you will just confuse yourself and anyone else impressionable watching the chat |
| 15:35 | tekkk | what is the difference between clojure.lang.PersistentHashMap and clojure.lang.PersistentArrayMap |
| 15:35 | tekkk | try this: (def a-map {:a :b}) (type a-map) (type {:a :b}) |
| 15:35 | tekkk | it gives two different types |
| 15:35 | tekkk | ,(def a-map {:a :b}) (type a-map) (type {:a :b}) |
| 15:35 | clojurebot | #<Exception java.lang.Exception: SANBOX DENIED> |
| 15:35 | hiredman | mikerod: just clear out your stale generated classes, and if possible stop aot compiling |
| 15:36 | mikerod | hiredman: I'm wondering is it a bad thing that I need to do the (eval ...) call around it, or is this just the way it should be handled. I've ran into this in non-test code. |
| 15:36 | mikerod | hiredman: ok I'll look into that |
| 15:37 | mikerod | Thanks for helping out too! |
| 15:38 | borkdude | Someone on Twitter asked where "fn* was defined" - is this baked into the compiler? |
| 15:41 | hiredman | http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-979 http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1132 and I am sure there is at least one other |
| 15:41 | hiredman | .win 15 |
| 15:41 | technomancy | borkdude: it is; it's in Java |
| 15:42 | borkdude | technomancy I saw something in Compiler.java, but couldn't exactly figure out how this worked |
| 15:43 | callenbot | borkdude: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10767305/what-is-fn-and-how-does-clojure-bootstrap#10767535 |
| 15:44 | callenbot | btw, Duckduckgo got me that answer. I was having an impossible time finding that answer on Google. |
| 15:44 | borkdude | callenbot tnx :-) |
| 15:45 | Raynes | callenbot: You listened to Cinderella Man by Eminem didn't you? |
| 15:46 | mikerod | hiredman: thanks for the jira links, that is certainly helpful |
| 15:46 | callenbot | Raynes: yes, you sent it to me. |
| 15:46 | Raynes | callenbot: Fantastic. |
| 15:55 | jweiss | i'm getting OOM errors in pr (admittedly, a large object, >10mb of text when printed). But still, it's not that deeply nested, i don't think it ever goes more than 10-20 levels deep. so why does pr use so much ram? |
| 15:55 | jweiss | and is there another way to serialize to text more efficiently |
| 15:56 | amalloy | pr shouldn't really use any ram; it writes directly to whatever Writer you give it |
| 15:57 | amalloy | so i'd say your object is bigger than you think (so large it takes up all RAM when you realize it?) |
| 15:57 | SegFaultAX | Time to profile! |
| 15:58 | hiredman | amalloy: people tend to do things like call .getBytes on strings and such |
| 15:58 | jweiss | yeah i guess that is possible, my size estimate was based on a successful "run" but the one that failed could have gone awry and somehow produced far more data. |
| 15:58 | hiredman | which for some period of time doubles the ram required |
| 15:59 | amalloy | hiredman: who is "people" here? implementors of the pr multimethod? i don't quite see how your observation is related |
| 15:59 | jweiss | amalloy: but isn't it a little suspicious that it only goes OOM when i go to print out this object (every time?) i've never gotten OOM before that. |
| 16:00 | SegFaultAX | jweiss: Is the object fully realized before you print it? |
| 16:00 | amalloy | jweiss: (let [obj (range)] (...lots of code, no OOM...) (pr-str obj)) ;; omg, OOM |
| 16:00 | hiredman | amalloy: pr is extendable, if he is trying to print something with data structures that have naive print-methods defined it very easily oom |
| 16:01 | jweiss | amalloy: i added some print-method dispatch to stop pulling items from lazy seq's when it hits the end of the already-realized portion |
| 16:01 | amalloy | barf. you're on your own there, man. "i added some specialized code to how pr works, and now when i pr things i run out of memory" |
| 16:02 | jweiss | amalloy: well, how else can you trace functions that return infinite seqs |
| 16:03 | amalloy | you know, i add debug-prints to the args or return values of my functions pretty often, and for some reason i've never run into that problem |
| 16:05 | jweiss | amalloy: if you printed an infinite seq, i would expect you would have hit it :) |
| 16:05 | amalloy | indeed |
| 16:06 | jweiss | https://github.com/weissjeffm/fn.trace/blob/master/src/fn/trace.clj#L24 |
| 16:06 | jweiss | somehow i doubt that is what's responsible for OOM |
| 16:06 | jweiss | unless there was a possibly-infinite data type i missed. |
| 16:09 | amalloy | *shrug* there is an open-ended set of infinite data types. i'm not saying that's what's causing the problem, but it easily could |
| 16:09 | SegFaultAX | jweiss: Question - why not just return the realized part of the list all at once instead of building a lazy seq to return the realized part of a lazy seq? |
| 16:09 | amalloy | (reify Object (toString [this] (pr-str (range)))) |
| 16:10 | augustl | is test.generative similar to QuickCheck, ScalaCheck, etc? |
| 16:10 | SegFaultAX | jweiss: (Since you already know it's realized, that is) |
| 16:10 | jweiss | SegFaultAX: i think i had an issue with ChunkedCons. |
| 16:10 | jweiss | i can't remember exactly, it's been a few months since i worked on that. |
| 16:11 | jweiss | SegFaultAX: oh i think i see what you are saying, why make the returned seq lazy at all |
| 16:12 | SegFaultAX | jweiss: Right. |
| 16:13 | jweiss | SegFaultAX: i think that if i took out lazy-seq i'd get a stackoverflow, wouldn't i? |
| 16:13 | jweiss | because that function calls itself |
| 16:14 | SegFaultAX | jweiss: 1) Only until it reaches the unrealized portion, 2) it could be re-written with a reduce. |
| 16:15 | jweiss | yeah, seems that way looking at it now. i can't remember if there was any reason that wouldn't work |
| 16:16 | amalloy | it's better as a lazy seq anyway |
| 16:17 | amalloy | reduce would have to use a vector and its purpose would be kinda obscured; the recursive nature of the problem is easiest to see with just using recursion, and a lazy seq makes that possible without adding more problems |
| 16:24 | enquora | has anyone worked with construction of PDFs using raw pdf primitives? |
| 16:27 | nickmbailey | i can ask him |
| 16:28 | pzuraq | hi |
| 16:28 | nickmbailey | err wrong room |
| 16:28 | nickmbailey | haha |
| 16:28 | pzuraq | are datastructures in clojure similar to haskell? I'm trying to implement a graph but not sure where to start |
| 16:28 | Iceland_jack | pzuraq: How would you start in Haskell? |
| 16:29 | pzuraq | hmm, good question. I've done trees in haskell but not graphs... |
| 16:29 | Iceland_jack | Right, modelling graphs in Haskell is a major issue |
| 16:29 | Iceland_jack | at least using ADT's |
| 16:30 | gfredericks | I just interviewed a guy who remarked how difficult it is to do trees in J |
| 16:31 | Iceland_jack | pzuraq: Adjacency matrix, adjacency list, … I suggest you look up how graphs are normally implemented |
| 16:31 | ChongLi | I don't see why you couldn't use the same techniques as clojure in Haskell |
| 16:31 | Iceland_jack | Implementing them in Clojure and Haskell shouldn't be different |
| 16:31 | ChongLi | just use Maps |
| 16:32 | pzuraq | cool, so clojure is pretty similar to haskell. I'm just getting used to functional languages, feels like relearning to ride a bike |
| 16:32 | Iceland_jack | Clojure is not pretty similar to Haskell I'd say |
| 16:32 | gfredericks | I've done undirected graphs a lot in clojure using sets of sets; but it wasn't too perf-sensitive |
| 16:33 | ChongLi | Iceland_jack: depends on how you define similar |
| 16:33 | pzuraq | Iceland_jack: Would you say it's closer to Haskell or Java? |
| 16:33 | Iceland_jack | pzuraq: I would. |
| 16:33 | Iceland_jack | But pzuraq seems to have inferred that because implementing one thing isn't too different between the two |
| 16:34 | pzuraq | I mean to say that what I've learned from Haskell will help in writing this project in Clojure, not that the languages are interchangeable or even incredibly similar |
| 16:35 | Iceland_jack | Fair enough. |
| 16:35 | ChongLi | Clojure is the most Haskell-like of the lisps |
| 16:36 | ChongLi | with its focus on immutability and stuff like STM |
| 16:36 | Iceland_jack | Sure, but I would say that something without a strong type system simply isn't that similar to Haskell |
| 16:36 | Iceland_jack | Of course similarity is subjective so let's not argue about that |
| 16:36 | ChongLi | yeah this is one of those rock paper scissors thing |
| 16:37 | Iceland_jack | Why does paper ‘beat’ rock again? |
| 16:37 | ChongLi | java has strong types but is less similar |
| 16:37 | ChongLi | because paper needs *something* to beat |
| 16:39 | pzuraq | Iceland_jack: With hugs |
| 16:39 | pzuraq | http://iwidk.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/rock-paper-scisssors.jpg |
| 16:44 | augustl | I want to do model based generative testing. Similar to what you can do in QuickCheck (afaik). I'm also testing a very impure system with lots of state and databases. Anyone got some suggestions? |
| 16:45 | augustl | test.generative seems to be mostly about testing pure clojure functions. I want my tests to do networking and other nastyness. |
| 16:45 | dnolen | neat, http://tailrecursion.com/blog/2013/02/15/introducing-javelin-an-frp-library-for-clojurescript/#.UR6Juounla8.twitter |
| 16:46 | gfredericks | augustl: use core.contract and run a lot of real data through the system? |
| 16:46 | noprompt | i'm curious. is the use of macros to create a pseudo templating language a bad idea? |
| 16:47 | augustl | gfredericks: what's core.contract? |
| 16:47 | gfredericks | noprompt: you're not just trying to replicate unquoting are you? |
| 16:47 | gfredericks | $google clojure core contracts |
| 16:47 | lazybot | [clojure/core.contracts · GitHub] https://github.com/clojure/core.contracts |
| 16:47 | gfredericks | augustl: ^ |
| 16:47 | ChongLi | dnolen: this is really neat |
| 16:47 | noprompt | i don't think so but i could be wrong. |
| 16:48 | noprompt | basically i have a query that's more or less the same every day that imports data in to a mysql database with LOAD DATA INFILE. |
| 16:48 | noprompt | it's a bit complex and using string templates is hard to maintain |
| 16:48 | augustl | seems like few people are doing generative testing, I'm not finding any blog posts that holds my hand, step by step :) |
| 16:49 | gfredericks | augustl: I'm interested in it, but haven't been able to |
| 16:49 | ChongLi | I think the spreadsheet metaphor gives a much better naming convention than the typical event/behaviour duality |
| 16:49 | noprompt | so i wrote a little macro that allows me to write sql with uppercase symbols, which get resolved if possible, and converted to a string otherwise |
| 16:49 | augustl | gfredericks: same :) |
| 16:49 | gfredericks | augustl: I think I've wanted better ways for describing data schemas |
| 16:50 | noprompt | (SQL* LOAD DATA INFILE "somefile" ...) |
| 16:50 | noprompt | i'm pretty sure it's an abuse though |
| 16:50 | gfredericks | noprompt: you could use &env for that |
| 16:50 | gfredericks | that's a fascinating macro actually |
| 16:51 | gfredericks | that doesn't mean it isn't terrible; I won't judge that :) |
| 16:51 | noprompt | the resolution part is needed because i have some things like (SET {:some_field "some value}) |
| 16:51 | noprompt | which i want to leave alone |
| 16:52 | noprompt | how would &env help me in this case? i've never used it before. |
| 16:53 | noprompt | haha, i'm pretty sure it's terrible |
| 16:54 | bbloom | noprompt: you can use github.com/brandonbloom/backtick to do resolution of symbols that is compatable with quasiquote -- unfortunately, i don't provide the resolver yet, but it's pretty easy to port from the clojure source if you want to contribute that |
| 16:55 | gfredericks | noprompt: &env would allow you to just use locals |
| 16:55 | noprompt | so here's the code https://gist.github.com/noprompt/4963866 |
| 16:55 | noprompt | with an example |
| 16:56 | noprompt | i'm still learning how to use this stuff |
| 16:56 | noprompt | bbloom: checking it out |
| 16:56 | noprompt | ah, so in this case i could avoid the resolution code? |
| 16:57 | bbloom | noprompt: sorry, i spoke before i saw your implementation |
| 16:57 | noprompt | can you give me any tips? |
| 16:57 | bbloom | noprompt: your usage of postwalk is sufficient |
| 16:57 | noprompt | bbloom: thanks |
| 16:58 | bbloom | noprompt: basically, postwalk knows how to walk all the various types of clojure data structures. backtick does the same thing, but supports clojure.core/unquote and clojure.core/unquote-splicing as well as calls a resolver function on symbols, just like you do |
| 17:00 | noprompt | bbloom: that's pretty cool |
| 17:01 | noprompt | bbloom: reading your article, it's funny you mention the use of ERB with SQL - that's what i was originally doing |
| 17:02 | bbloom | noprompt: i mentioned it because people do it :-P |
| 17:05 | bbloom | noprompt: i don't know what's popular in the clojure/sql world right now, but i remember being impressed by http://clojureql.org/ |
| 17:07 | noprompt | bbloom: i've had a lot of success with korma |
| 17:07 | noprompt | bbloom: but i did run across this yesterday |
| 17:08 | bbloom | noprompt: with all due respect to ibdknox, i prefer to avoid reification of "entities" |
| 17:09 | ibdknox | fwiw, you don't have to reify entities in korma |
| 17:09 | ibdknox | (select :users (where {:blah 4})) |
| 17:09 | bbloom | ibdknox: i haven't used either korma or clojureql, so i'll step back from the conversation :-) |
| 17:09 | ibdknox | haha |
| 17:12 | tomoj | wonder why bit-set etc aren't inlined, seems to prevent primitive transmission |
| 17:15 | gfredericks | (defmacro strs [& syms] (let [vs (vec (for [sym syms] (if (contains? &env sym) sym (s\ |
| 17:15 | gfredericks | oops |
| 17:16 | gfredericks | (defmacro strs [& syms] (let [vs (vec (for [sym syms] (if (contains? &env sym) sym (str sym))))] `(clojure.string/join " " ~vs))) |
| 17:21 | noprompt | gfredericks: is that an alternate solution? |
| 17:22 | noprompt | gfredericks: i actually like that a lot more, cause it avoids the regex test |
| 17:23 | SegFaultAX | I think Korma is an awesome idea, but I haven't seen many projects using it. Do most people just use clojure jdbc? |
| 17:26 | noprompt | gfredericks: but shouldn't it still use postwalk? |
| 17:27 | noprompt | (strs super duper (println true)) => "super duper (println true)" |
| 17:27 | noprompt | SegFaultAX: i've been using korma for a small application, and i've been really happy with it. |
| 17:28 | noprompt | SegFaultAX: i've enjoyed it far more than the active record stuff i'm used to dealing with in the rails world. |
| 17:29 | bbloom | noprompt: active record, the best worst idea ever |
| 17:29 | noprompt | but i've been going through this "i want to build it myself" phase because i'm tired of being sheltered by frameworks. |
| 17:30 | Raynes | SegFaultAX: Most projects using it are likely going to be closed source company projects. |
| 17:31 | SegFaultAX | Raynes: That's a good point. |
| 17:31 | SegFaultAX | Not to mention a lot of the open source projects don't even use relational databases. Most of them are mongodb + monger. |
| 17:31 | noprompt | are relational db's that bad? |
| 17:32 | SegFaultAX | noprompt: They aren't bad at all. |
| 17:32 | SegFaultAX | noprompt: Well, they all have their warts (mysql in particular), but there is nothing wrong with relational databases. And there are a /lot/ of benefits. |
| 17:33 | noprompt | SegFaultAX: i've been using mysql mostly since that's what i "grew" up with, but i keep hearing about postgres. |
| 17:34 | noprompt | SegFaultAX: in your opinion what's the best rdb? |
| 17:35 | noprompt | SegFaultAX: or rather, which would you choose? |
| 17:35 | SegFaultAX | noprompt: Postgresql is my go to database and has been for many years. |
| 17:36 | SegFaultAX | noprompt: But it really depends. There are lots of factors to consider for those kinds of decisions. |
| 17:37 | pbostrom | Raynes: does refheap support jsonp requests? |
| 17:38 | Raynes | pbostrom: Probably not. |
| 17:39 | Raynes | pbostrom: What are you doing that would require that? |
| 17:40 | Raynes | It probably wouldn't be that hard to add. You can open an issue and I'll get to it when I'm finished moving the views to laser. |
| 17:40 | pbostrom | I was playing around with loading pastes client-side |
| 17:41 | pbostrom | i.e. my app makes an ajax call to refheap.com. in my limited web knowledge, I think the only way to do that is using jsonp or CORS |
| 17:42 | pbostrom | Raynes: I can try to fix it myself and send a pull request or whatever the kids are doing these days |
| 17:42 | dnolen | cemerick: |
| 17:42 | dnolen | cemerick: ping |
| 17:42 | gfredericks | noprompt: yeah if you want it nested it would have to be something like that |
| 17:42 | cemerick | dnolen: hi |
| 17:42 | gfredericks | noprompt: I just wrote that macro because I thought it was fun and you gave me the idea. |
| 17:42 | Raynes | pbostrom: Yup, that's about the only way to do it. |
| 17:42 | dnolen | cemerick: I found the CLJS bug, fixing and releasing |
| 17:44 | pbostrom | Raynes: I think it just requires setting the content-type header of the response to application/javascript instead of application/json |
| 17:45 | Raynes | Not exactly. |
| 17:45 | Raynes | You have to wrap the results of the API call in a js function call. |
| 17:46 | pbostrom | gotcha |
| 17:47 | Raynes | Instead of the API returning JSON like "{'foo':'bar'}", you'd pass something like ?jsonp=myfnname and it'd return "myfnname(\"{'foo':'bar'}\")" |
| 17:47 | Raynes | At least, that's how I remember it. |
| 17:47 | pbostrom | yeah, you're right |
| 17:47 | Raynes | I think lib-noir has a noir.response/jsonp thing that makes this easier. |
| 17:48 | Sgeo_ | jsonp sketches me out |
| 17:48 | Raynes | Does it do a good job? |
| 17:48 | Sgeo_ | DO NOT CONSUME JSONP FROM UNTRSUTED SERVICES |
| 17:49 | Raynes | I'd like to see the resultant drawing. |
| 17:49 | Raynes | Surely pbostrom trusts me. |
| 17:49 | pbostrom | yeah, I haven't worked out how jsonp is supposed to be more secure |
| 17:49 | Raynes | I've only stole from him twice. |
| 17:49 | pbostrom | Raynes: I'm on the fence at this point |
| 17:49 | Sgeo_ | pbostrom, it's not more secure, it works around a security feature |
| 17:49 | Raynes | The problem is that you can't just trust me. |
| 17:50 | Raynes | You have to trust that my website is secure enough to not get corrupted data in the db. |
| 17:50 | Sgeo_ | It tells the service a function name, and expects the service to reply something like the_func(blah blah); |
| 17:50 | Raynes | If someone managed to get some js code in my database, for example, I imagine that'd be bad. |
| 17:50 | Sgeo_ | But you effectively run foreign Javascript code right on your page |
| 17:50 | Raynes | *shrug* |
| 17:50 | Sgeo_ | It's like reading from a JSON service with eval |
| 17:50 | Sgeo_ | You're trusting the input to not be malicious |
| 17:51 | Raynes | I trust people to not stab or shoot me on the bus every morning. |
| 17:51 | Raynes | It has so far worked out in my favor. |
| 17:52 | cemerick | dnolen: That's great; so it's a cljs bug and not a match bug? |
| 17:53 | pbostrom | hmm, maybe I should put some more thought into this, or just pull it down on the server side and escape anything funky |
| 17:53 | noprompt | Raynes: haha that's awesome |
| 17:53 | noprompt | Raynes: i trust people not to spit in my food |
| 17:54 | Raynes | Me too! We're wild creatures. |
| 17:54 | amalloy | pbostrom: jsonp isn't supposed to be more secure at all |
| 17:54 | dnolen | cemerick: yeah, core.match CLJS support is old, looks like I didn't account for try/catch syntax change that aligned CLJS w/ Clojure |
| 17:54 | pbostrom | amalloy: yeah, Sgeo_ set me straight |
| 17:55 | cemerick | dnolen: Thanks :-) Sorry I couldn't offer up a patch. |
| 17:56 | Sgeo_ | pbostrom, well, the point of JSONP is to work around a security restriction that browsers have, which, admittedly, I don't fully understand the point of the restriction. |
| 17:57 | Sgeo_ | I think there's some sort of secure alternative for cross-domain stuff in the works, but don't know details |
| 17:58 | bbloom | Sgeo_: cross-domain is a cluster fuck all around |
| 17:59 | bbloom | i've found server side proxying to be by far the simplest solution |
| 17:59 | Sgeo_ | I have considered using JSONP out of laziness, but I would have fully controlled both ends of it |
| 17:59 | Sgeo_ | Ended up not using it though |
| 18:12 | dnolen | cemerick: ok, so one unavoidable ugliness because of the try/catch change and the horrible fact that natives in JS don't return true for instanceof |
| 18:12 | dnolen | cemerick: :require [clojure.core.match] also needs to be added to your CLJS ns |
| 18:14 | TimMc | Sgeo_: If you use JSONP, remember that JSON is *not* a subset of JS. |
| 18:15 | TimMc | Sgeo_: You have to remember to encode U+2028 and U+2029 in string literals. |
| 18:15 | TimMc | (this is if you want eval to work) |
| 18:16 | technomancy | http://www.netmeister.org/blog/images/dijkstra-quick-n-dirty.jpg |
| 18:16 | bbloom | TimMc: googled that & saw http://timelessrepo.com/json-isnt-a-javascript-subset -- holy crud. javascript, i hate you |
| 18:17 | bbloom | technomancy: he looks so serious! |
| 18:17 | arrdem | technomancy: we've had those around the department for a few months now... |
| 18:17 | Sgeo_ | Have some VERY repetitive Tcl code lying around |
| 18:18 | TimMc | bbloom: In this case, direct your hate towards Crockford. |
| 18:18 | technomancy | TimMc: the best part is that since JSON is fixed in stone, it'll never get fixed. |
| 18:18 | technomancy | go go gadget hubris |
| 18:18 | Sgeo_ | Why is it so important that eval work on JSON, exactly? |
| 18:19 | TimMc | It's not, it's just an attractive nuisance. |
| 18:19 | ppppaul | what's the simplest way to write pretty printed clojure to a file? |
| 18:19 | hiredman | also doubles |
| 18:19 | hiredman | (binding [*out* ...] (clojure.pprint/pprint ...)) |
| 18:20 | Sgeo_ | "However, when you’re dealing with JSONP there’s no way around: You’re forced to use the JavaScript parser in the browser. " |
| 18:20 | Sgeo_ | ouch |
| 18:20 | technomancy | hiredman: "Do the simplest thing that could possibly work. Except that, don't do that. No, that's stupid. Stop." |
| 18:20 | ppppaul | ^_^ |
| 18:20 | hiredman | I must admit I often just do (spit "/tmp/foo" (with-out-str (pprint ...))) |
| 18:20 | technomancy | hiredman: re: JS doubles, not binding fwiw |
| 18:21 | TimMc | Sgeo_: The workaround is to have the JSON gerenator emit a subset of JSON that is also a subset of JS. |
| 18:21 | Sgeo_ | Then again, JSONP is an cute hack/horrible abomination that must die |
| 18:21 | TimMc | \u2028 and \u2029 are allowed escape sequences in both, after all |
| 18:21 | hiredman | I forget if using spit like that is actually bad |
| 18:21 | TimMc | Crockford despises JSONP, yes. |
| 18:21 | Sgeo_ | Crockford? |
| 18:21 | hiredman | I think it may end up with more quotes or something |
| 18:22 | TimMc | Douglas Crockford created the JSON spec. |
| 18:22 | Sgeo_ | Ah |
| 18:22 | TimMc | ALso JSLint, I think? |
| 18:22 | TimMc | And wrote Javascript: THe Good Parts |
| 18:23 | dnolen | cemerick: alpha12 going out |
| 18:23 | arrdem | you forgot Javascript: The Working parts and Javascript: The Bits We Don't Talk About |
| 18:27 | ppppaul | hiredman, with-out-str works |
| 18:28 | ppppaul | however, i'm outputting datomic schema, and it is evaluating the reader macros which i wish it would not evaluate. |
| 18:28 | ppppaul | when i do pr-str i get correct output |
| 18:28 | ppppaul | but reader macros get evaluates with pprint |
| 18:29 | ppppaul | is there a way around this? to get pprinted output that looks the similar as pr-str output? |
| 18:31 | bbloom | ppppaul: you can use https://github.com/brandonbloom/fipp which doesn't do anything (yet) for reader macros, et al. and when it does do something for reader macros, i intend to have it be configurable via a stylesheet-type functionality |
| 18:34 | noprompt | i need to finish my compsci education |
| 18:35 | noprompt | whenever i try to read some of these papers i just get lost |
| 18:40 | bbloom | noprompt: you just need an education education |
| 18:40 | bbloom | noprompt: here's a good trick: print the paper out & get a red pen |
| 18:40 | bbloom | everytime you don't understand something, underline it |
| 18:40 | bbloom | when you DO understand it, write a note or two in the margin |
| 18:40 | noprompt | and then go look it up? |
| 18:40 | bbloom | then, print it out again and start over |
| 18:40 | bbloom | repeat that process until you don't mark up the paper at all |
| 18:40 | bbloom | it takes a long time, but it works! |
| 18:41 | noprompt | that's an interesting approach |
| 18:41 | noprompt | it's like debugging for the brain |
| 18:41 | bbloom | oh, and you need to perform this process recursively against the citations, but utilize a huristic search |
| 18:42 | bbloom | you don't need to read every citation, and especially not the transitive closure of citations, but error on reading greater rather than fewer |
| 18:43 | bbloom | also, Google Scholar is your friend. |
| 18:43 | noprompt | wow i didn't even know about that |
| 18:43 | bbloom | the [PDF] link often circumvents paywalls, which is nice |
| 18:44 | noprompt | oh man |
| 18:44 | bbloom | noprompt: this completes your education education |
| 18:44 | warz | hm, im trying to get ring-json's wrap-json-response middleware to convert my response map into json |
| 18:44 | noprompt | this would have been so helpful so many times |
| 18:44 | bbloom | (for today) |
| 18:44 | warz | but its just returning text/plain string version of the map |
| 18:45 | noprompt | warz: you can always hand roll it :) |
| 18:46 | noprompt | {:status 200 :headers {…} :response json-stuff} |
| 18:46 | noprompt | err :body |
| 18:46 | noprompt | not :response |
| 18:46 | warz | i started out with my method but i saw ring-json and thought id move to that, but i cant get it to work. guess ill go back to my own function, heh |
| 18:46 | warz | im prob doing something wrong. im sure it works. |
| 18:47 | noprompt | bbloom: wow, this is awesome |
| 18:47 | weavejester | warz: You need to set the content-type |
| 18:47 | bbloom | noprompt: do try the red pen technique & report how that goes as well :-) |
| 18:47 | warz | oh i thought it did that. i see reference to it in the code, i think. |
| 18:48 | weavejester | warz: Oh wait, this is on the response |
| 18:48 | warz | yea, response |
| 18:48 | weavejester | warz: So… what do you mean by "text/plain string version of the map"? |
| 18:49 | warz | well like, the compojure route handler returns a map, and the http response is text/plain instead of application/json |
| 18:49 | warz | but i thought it would be application/json, based on looking at the code for ring-json |
| 18:49 | weavejester | warz: You need to wrap the map inside a response map |
| 18:50 | weavejester | warz: e.g. (response {:foo "bar"}) |
| 18:50 | weavejester | warz: Or {:body {:foo "bar"}} |
| 18:50 | weavejester | warz: Otherwise Compojure assume you're returning a request map. |
| 18:50 | weavejester | Er |
| 18:50 | weavejester | A response map |
| 18:52 | warz | im doing that, but it must be something else. my single handler is here: https://github.com/ryancole/localshop/blob/master/src/localshop/routes/api/items.clj |
| 18:52 | warz | github shows different spacing that mine, maybe that has something to do with it |
| 18:53 | warz | not missing a paren or anything, heh |
| 18:54 | warz | might have to do with my map call |
| 18:54 | warz | ah yup thats it. hrm ok. something to go on. |
| 19:02 | warz | i see. ring-json is not converting to json because map returns a lazy seq, which probably does not meet the map? vector? checks in ring-json. |
| 19:03 | weavejester | warz: Yes, that would be why. I'm strongly considering changing that. |
| 19:03 | weavejester | warz: Lazy seqs are valid Ring bodies, and initially I didn't want to override any base behavior of Ring |
| 19:04 | warz | ah ok. i did see a pull request that i think offers some code for that change |
| 19:06 | weavejester | Huh, there are a few pull requests on ring-json that I don't believe ever arrived in my inbox |
| 19:07 | warz | :) |
| 19:36 | weavejester | Does anyone know of a library for serializing Clojure datastructures in a way that always winds up with the same bytes for the same data structures? |
| 19:36 | weavejester | I was thinking of making one so that I can effectively hash a data structure |
| 19:37 | amalloy | weavejester: a gloss codec to do that would be interesting |
| 19:38 | weavejester | amalloy: Oh, that's an idea. I'd forgotten about gloss. |
| 19:39 | amalloy | header frames let you implement tagged unions pretty simply, which i think is all you really need to encode clojure data structures |
| 19:40 | amalloy | you could ask zack, too; he might already know of a codec someone's written |
| 19:42 | bbloom | weavejester: have you looked at https://github.com/Datomic/fressian ? i dunno it it meets your requiresments or not |
| 19:43 | hiredman | fressian's caching stuff might interfere with repeatability there |
| 19:44 | weavejester | bbloom: I don't think Fressian makes any guarantees about order |
| 19:44 | hiredman | weavejester: doesn't pr-str do that? |
| 19:44 | ivan | consistent indentation in fressian? I am disappointed |
| 19:44 | weavejester | hiredman: I don't think it does. For instance, compare an array map to a hash map |
| 19:44 | amalloy | hiredman: {:a 1 :b 2} vs {:b 2 :a 1}? |
| 19:44 | hiredman | ah |
| 19:44 | hiredman | right |
| 19:45 | weavejester | ,(pr-str {:b 1 :a 2} (hash-map :a 2 :b 1)) |
| 19:45 | clojurebot | "{:a 2, :b 1} {:a 2, :b 1}" |
| 19:45 | weavejester | That did get the order right, but I don't think it guarantees it... |
| 19:45 | hiredman | you could, of course, patch the print-methods to order the keys always |
| 19:45 | bbloom | weavejester: do you need to support non-clojure types or records? |
| 19:45 | weavejester | bbloom: Nope |
| 19:46 | bbloom | weavejester: then it should be pretty easy to implement yourself... after all, clojure.walk has to handle all the types |
| 19:46 | weavejester | bbloom: Yep, it shouldn't be too hard |
| 19:48 | weavejester | hiredman: Patching the print methods is an option, but the pr function might change subtly in future versions of Clojure, and if I'm going to be generating a hash, I need to guarantee that the same bytes will always be produced. |
| 19:53 | bbloom | weavejester: passing through string form just seems like a completely unecessary intermediate step |
| 19:54 | weavejester | bbloom: String form? |
| 19:54 | bbloom | weavejester: i mean printing before serializing |
| 19:54 | hiredman | bbloom: sure, and very ineffecient on the jvm if what you want is bytes |
| 19:54 | weavejester | Ah, yep |
| 19:57 | bbloom | on a totally unrelated note, i find myself wishing for an intrinsic notation & abstraction for propertied trees |
| 19:57 | bbloom | a la html or xml or any other tree of maps with a :children key |
| 21:26 | ayia | Hi guys, I read a russian version of the "lisp casting" tutorial adapted for clojure (http://lisperati.planvita.com/actions.html). There is a place there with a definition of macros with nested quotes (game-action macro), original article is http://lisperati.com/actions.html. Can anybody explain me how it works? Or at least help somehow... Maybe there are some good articles about nested quotes... I did seek them, but did not find anything that can |
| 21:26 | ayia | help me... |
| 21:27 | ayia | (defspel game-action [command subj obj place & args] |
| 21:27 | ayia | `(defspel ~command [subject# object#] |
| 21:27 | ayia | `(spel-print (cond (and (= location '~'~place) |
| 21:27 | ayia | (= '~subject# '~'~subj) |
| 21:27 | ayia | (= '~object# '~'~obj) |
| 21:27 | ayia | (have? '~'~subj)) |
| 21:27 | ayia | ~@'~args |
| 21:27 | ayia | :else '(i cannot ~'~command like that -))))) |
| 21:27 | ayia | that was the macro... (defspel is an alias for defmacro) |
| 21:28 | akhudek | ayia: please use https://www.refheap.com/ for code |
| 21:28 | akhudek | the best way to understand what a macro is doing is to look at it's output with macroexpand |
| 21:28 | ayia | oh... big sorry for that... next time i will use... |
| 21:30 | ayia | akhudek: I see... seems like there is no easy way) |
| 21:34 | akhudek | I wish I could offer more, but know enough of the macro nuances to know why you'd nest backticks |
| 21:35 | akhudek | but you can see the output by using macroexpand-1 |
| 21:35 | akhudek | and compare the versions with and without the second set of backticks |
| 21:39 | ayia | akhudek: thanks... will try) |
| 21:45 | alex_baranosky | how do I sign my jar so Clojars is happy? |
| 22:03 | ayia | akhudek: by the way... the output of macroexpand-1 is terrible... ) |
| 22:05 | technomancy | alexbaranosky: usually if you're generating signatures at deploy the missing piece is not putting your public key in your clojars profile |
| 22:05 | ayia | akhudek: that is it after deleting all namespaces... https://www.refheap.com/paste/11337 |
| 22:06 | dnolen | ayia: it's useless unless you use pprint w/ code dispatch on the output |
| 22:06 | dnolen | ayia: some editor tools support incremental macro expansion like swank-clojure / nrepl.el |
| 22:42 | gfredericks | does cljs have proper keywords now? |
| 22:54 | dnolen | gfredericks: no |
| 23:06 | gfredericks | man. coulda sworn that keyword-string was going into a constructor. |
| 23:08 | dnolen | gfredericks: oh sorry yes, under advanced optimization if (:foo bar), we wrap :foo in a Keyword type |
| 23:09 | dnolen | gfredericks: this is because keyword invocation is very slow otherwise |
| 23:09 | dnolen | gfredericks: but it's not a proper keyword type, it's just faster to construct an instance and invoke than it is to go through String prototype. |
| 23:09 | bbloom | dnolen: maybe we should try to tackle keywords and symbols on sunday? |
| 23:10 | dnolen | bbloom: I was actually thinking the same thing. |
| 23:10 | bbloom | dnolen: would be nice to finally cross that one off the list :-) |
| 23:11 | dnolen | bbloom: don't know if we'll finish but we can at least make a dent :) |
| 23:12 | bbloom | dnolen: i see no reason why we can't get it working, considering i did that in only a day or two myself before... the real question is whether or not we can get it performing :-) |
| 23:13 | dnolen | bbloom: well that's what I mean, a dent towards something fast :) |
| 23:16 | bbloom | dnolen: and doesn't leak memory! *grumble*grumble* no WeakReferences |
| 23:21 | dnolen | bbloom: yeah, I really think we should probably focus on getting the static keyword case fast - that's an immmediate improvement for a lot of code |
| 23:23 | bbloom | dnolen: agreed, but it's tricky to do so without also breaking dynamically instantiated keywords because of = vs identical? -- let's go over the details in person |
| 23:42 | dnolen | bbloom: right, sounds good |
