#clojure – 2013-01-18

2013-01-18

00:24	handojin	quiet
00:24	handojin	quiet
00:25	cemerick	luminus?
00:25	cemerick	luminus?
00:25	handojin	?
00:25	cemerick	What is luminus?
00:25	handojin	lein new luminus <projectname>
00:25	handojin	replaces noir
00:26	handojin	http://www.luminusweb.net/docs
00:29	handojin	it was a bad question - i just started the server from the shell in ~home/workspace/<project>
00:31	bbloom	any easy way to get the stack trace of an exception that happened on a non-repl tread?
00:31	bbloom	thread*
00:41	handojin	@cemerick - friend looks really nice - thanks!
00:42	cemerick	oh, right (re: luminus)
00:42	cemerick	handojin: you're welcome...though probably best to thank me after you have it working :-)
00:42	cemerick	bbloom: if you can get a reference to the exception :-P
00:43	bbloom	cemerick: i assume that :-P face means there isn't an easy way to do that? heh
00:43	bbloom	try/catch/(def omgwtfbbq e) ?
00:44	cemerick	bbloom: That's certainly one way. Is the exception going entirely uncaught right now?
00:44	bbloom	cemerick: it was more of a hypothetical question, since the problem occurred in a pure function
00:44	djwonk	luminous, would you say that I have a plethora of pinatas?
00:44	djwonk	from the site: "Have access to the plethora of existing Clojure and Java libraries"
00:44	bbloom	i just printed out the inputs, copy pasted them into a buffer, and ran the function in isolation
00:45	bbloom	for some odd reason, i find that clojure.core/+ is your worst nightmare when it comes to figuring out what's going wrong in your function
00:45	bbloom	math functions seem to hate stack traces
00:46	cemerick	bbloom: well, there's a couple of janky things you can do to backstop uncaught exceptions
00:46	cemerick	(1) http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/lang/Thread.html#setDefaultUncaughtExceptionHandler%28java.lang.Thread.UncaughtExceptionHandler%29
00:46	cemerick	and the higher-level (2) http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/lang/ThreadGroup.html#uncaughtException%28java.lang.Thread,%20java.lang.Throwable%29
00:47	bbloom	hmmm... would it be exceedingly janky for nrepl & friends to do that for me? :-)
00:47	cemerick	The most common problem is that the exceptions you're interested in are already being caught, just by code you don't control
00:47	cemerick	bbloom: yes :-)
00:48	cemerick	Although you could readily sling together an nREPL middleware that could do useful things, like push successive exceptions into a stack, thus providing history
00:48	bbloom	my kingdom for a restart!
00:49	luxbock	what is the difference between let and let*?
00:49	cemerick	oh, well, there's at least 2 or 3 restart libs for Clojure
00:49	bbloom	cemerick: that work with arbitrary exceptions that i didn't throw?
00:50	cemerick	bbloom: sure, but that's not really the problem, is it?
00:50	cemerick	it's the exceptions you don't catch that you want to get at
00:50	bbloom	shrug i'm just getting spoiled by how nicely some things work: nrepl, lein, etc... i want my debugging cake too :-)
00:51	bbloom	i just want to `lein update` or upgrade or whatever it is and have all this work... i'm just being greedy and whiney, so ignore me :-)
00:52	cemerick	bbloom: oooh, you want break-on-exception in a debugger
00:52	handojin	@djwonk - is russlish maybe? more horrorshow than nadsat anyway
00:52	bbloom	and i want it to Just Work (tm)
00:53	cemerick	bbloom: I used it in ccw just today. 'tworks just fine. :-)
00:53	bbloom	is that via ritz ?
00:53	cemerick	Ritz has break-on-exception as well AFAIK
00:53	bbloom	bah. why is this not in `lein repl?`
00:53	bbloom	`?
00:53	cemerick	no, ccw just usess Eclipse's debugger
00:53	bbloom	oh
00:53	bbloom	boo
00:54	cemerick	hah
00:54	cemerick	I thought you wanted it to Just Work™? :-P
00:54	bbloom	And Use Less RAM (R)
00:54	bbloom	and VIM (C)
00:54	cemerick	gtfo with your netbook ;-)
00:54	djwonk	handojin: ?… I was laughing at the 'plethora' use -- reminds me of Three Amigos
00:54	bbloom	heh, i'm on a mbp
00:55	cemerick	I run Eclipse with 512 heap FWIW.
00:55	cemerick	Ritz isn't going to be much more lightweight, since there's 3 JVMs.
00:55	handojin	teh RAM be cheap these days
00:56	cemerick	Though I appreciate that some people inexplicably prefer textmode stuffs.
00:56	bbloom	i don't just write clojure
00:56	xeqi	I've gotten ritz's break-on-exception to work on the repl thread
00:56	bbloom	i need one text editor that keeps me sane across the board
00:56	xeqi	never tried in another one
00:57	cemerick	sure, I use vim for everything but clojure
00:58	bbloom	i'd rather vim than a debugger :-P
00:58	cemerick	xeqi: you should be able to do it for all threads in the vm
00:58	bbloom	i also prefer command line debuggers anyway
00:58	xeqi	cemerick: yeah, I'd expect it to owrk
00:59	cemerick	bbloom: well, just bring up jdebug only when you need it
00:59	cemerick	sorry, jvisualvm
01:12	bbloom	ibdknox: i'm github stalking ppl lately... saw you forked dommy. is template speed an issue at all for you?
01:35	handojin	anybody working with datomic?
01:46	holo	hi
01:47	holo	in korma, any way to increment a value without making two queries?
02:18	syrinx_	i think i might be in love with noir
02:25	bbloom	i think i'm in love with writing functions that concatenate a sequence of side effects to be evaluated later
02:26	syrinx_	:D
02:36	alex_baranosky	bbloom: yes! hallelujah, yes
02:36	alex_baranosky	holo: don't think there is, no
03:00	cbp`	anyone here using emacs live
03:00	cbp`	i keep getting segmentation faults :/
03:02	tomoj	&((juxt #(do %& %1) (fn [& args] (nth args 1))) 1 2 3)
03:02	lazybot	⇒ [1 2]
03:02	tomoj	hmmm
03:07	bbloom	,(#(-> %&) 1 2 3)
03:07	clojurebot	(1 2 3)
03:07	bbloom	heh, what-ya know... i had no idea %& was a thing
03:07	AtKaaZ	what am I doing wrong here: https://gist.github.com/4563026
03:08	bbloom	,(macroexpand '#(-> [%1 %2 %&]))
03:08	clojurebot	(fn* [p1__56# p2__57# & rest__58#] (-> [p1__56# p2__57# rest__58#]))
03:09	bbloom	AtKaaZ: call deref on var
03:09	bbloom	v.deref()
03:09	bbloom	you want the current value of that var
03:09	AtKaaZ	oh very nice, thank you!
03:10	AtKaaZ	interesting, so in clojure when the symbol for that var is encountered a deref is done
03:13	alex_baranosky	bbloom: so I think your idea of building up a sequence of io operations to execute later is a really important "design pattern" for clojure apps
03:14	bbloom	alex_baranosky: yup. i'm taking it to a tad of an extreme though :-)
03:15	bbloom	alex_baranosky: https://www.refheap.com/paste/8737
03:15	alex_baranosky	I hate side-effects, I wonder how extreme is too extreme. Now you have me curious
03:15	bbloom	that's a really simple example
03:15	bbloom	the dom/ namespace contains a bunch of factjor words
03:16	bbloom	notice how it recurses and creates children stuff before wrapping the create-element and append
03:16	alex_baranosky	not sure that's so extreme
03:16	bbloom	if those were normal side effects, i'd be forced to use doseq and put the children order in the middle
03:17	bbloom	well, it's extreme because i implemented a conatenative language interpreter to be able to do this :-)
03:17	bbloom	haha
03:17	alex_baranosky	yep; that's where you went over the limit
03:17	alex_baranosky	hehe
03:18	alex_baranosky	interesting though… so you are using the sequence as a way to also add on the parameters?
03:18	alex_baranosky	I would have tended to use currying or partials for that
03:18	bbloom	the words in factjor are applicable & they do right-currying
03:19	bbloom	so these two things are equiv: ["the-rect" element-by-id :fill "red" set-attribute]
03:19	bbloom	and: [(get-by-id "the-rect") (set-attribute :fill "red")]
03:19	AtKaaZ	,(#(%&_) 1 2 3)
03:19	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.IllegalStateException: arg literal must be %, %& or %integer>
03:20	AtKaaZ	,(#(%_%&) 1 2 3)
03:20	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.IllegalStateException: arg literal must be %, %& or %integer>
03:20	AtKaaZ	,(#(%_&) 1 2 3)
03:20	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.IllegalStateException: arg literal must be %, %& or %integer>
03:20	AtKaaZ	,clojure-version
03:20	clojurebot	{:interim true, :major 1, :minor 4, :incremental 0, :qualifier "master"}
03:20	alex_baranosky	right, makes sense. You could do the same kind of things by saying [#(get-by-id "the-rect") #(set-attribute :fill "red")] no? then just calling each after?
03:21	bbloom	alex_baranosky: to some extent
03:21	nonuby	can anyone help with making this more pragmatic, function to replase any to or from key with value 1000. here what Ive come up with but feel icky https://www.refheap.com/paste/8738
03:21	bbloom	set-attribute needs an element to operate on
03:21	bbloom	so really it would be: [#(set-attribute (get-by-id "the-rect") :fill "red")]
03:22	bbloom	alex_baranosky: see the "stack effects" defined here: https://www.refheap.com/paste/8739
03:22	bbloom	notice how all the operations leave elements on the stack
03:22	AtKaaZ	ah ofc I typoed: &(#(#_%&) 1 2 3)
03:22	alex_baranosky	bbloom: the idea is one worth pushing, we're moving our current design at work toward this kind of thing
03:22	bbloom	there's also a cat/ namespace for generic concatenative operators
03:22	bbloom	like cat/each
03:22	AtKaaZ	,(#(#_%&) 1 2 3)
03:22	clojurebot	()
03:22	bbloom	so you could do [(elements-with-tag "div") [cat/prn] cat/each]
03:23	bbloom	and that would print out each div on the page
03:23	bbloom	:-)
03:23	bbloom	the result is a jquery-like api.... it's like threading macros on steroids!
03:24	alex_baranosky	on thing you seem to loose is the ability to look at the data structure that holds the planned ii-executions, and manipulate it nicely… Because the args and the function names are mixed together
03:24	bbloom	alex_baranosky: i'm working on a solution to that too :-)
03:24	alex_baranosky	bbloom: so is this part of the API of your library?
03:24	bbloom	alex_baranosky: yeah
03:25	bbloom	alex_baranosky: i'm gonna make a polymorphic method to take a factjor program and return it in literal form
03:25	alex_baranosky	neat stuff. the more you can see your IO effects as data the better, imho
03:25	bbloom	alex_baranosky: which will be useful for serializing programs and sending them across the wire
03:25	Raynes	alex_baranosky: Did you ever get your IRC client stuff sorted?
03:25	Raynes	I guess you forgot the znc creds
03:26	juxovec	what is the best Clojure book?
03:26	alex_baranosky	Raynes: hey dude, I have been so dan busy with everything I back-burnered it. Linkinus mysteriously stopped being buggy for now
03:26	alex_baranosky	juxovec: read them all :P
03:26	AtKaaZ	,(= '() (#__) (list))
03:26	clojurebot	true
03:26	Raynes	juxovec: Clojure Programming is a good one.
03:26	alex_baranosky	yeah I like the O'Reailly one
03:26	AtKaaZ	,#__
03:26	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
03:26	juxovec	Raynes: this one? http://www.clojurebook.com/
03:27	Raynes	Yes.
03:27	juxovec	thanks
03:34	bbloom	i put together a little pong game to test some UI framework code... it's requiring ALL OF MY WILLPOWER to avoid writing a little physics engine
03:34	bbloom	the manual hacky repetitive bounds checks make me cringe :-P
03:49	augustl	anyone here successfully used korma + clojure.java.jdbc to work with an in-memory h2 database?
03:57	augustl	there seems to be a lack of interop there. I need to use the very same connection for all operations, since creating a new connection means creating a new in-memory database
03:58	augustl	and korma works with their encapsulation, while clojure.java.jdbc works with the raw connections.
03:59	ebaxt	augustl: I assume you are aware that the connection string affects the mode? http://www.h2database.com/html/features.html#connection_modes
03:59	ebaxt	?
04:01	tomoj	:( https://www.refheap.com/paste/882fea4675b8b7dc8fc4e9d99
04:01	tomoj	oh, #(-> %1) is very cute
04:03	borkdude	tomoj ah yes, that's nice
04:04	augustl	ebaxt: yeah, I'm using "jdbc:h2:mem:"
04:04	pisketti	tomoj: mmmm, when would you use/need that? (pardon my ignorance)
04:05	borkdude	pisketti same as (fn [x] x)
04:05	tomoj	which is better written `identity`
04:05	pisketti	how about identity?
04:05	pisketti	:)
04:05	tomoj	but I see #(-> %2) or #(-> %3)... occasionally
04:05	tomoj	also #(-> [%1 %2]) oslt
04:06	tomoj	I mean I've never seen it written that way — I've seen equivalent functions
04:06	borkdude	pisketti yolo
04:06	augustl	seems like clojure.java.jdbc isn't made with in-memory h2 support in mind. It always takes the connection spec, not a raw connection object
04:07	tomoj	it's too bad clojure.core.reducers doesn't expose its gerundives
04:07	ebaxt	augustl: Can't you just name the in-memory db so you can use multiple connections? jdbc:h2:mem:foo?
04:08	augustl	ebaxt: then I need to make sure I kill it though, was hoping to avoid that
04:09	augustl	then again, the fact I'm passing a connection to my API is not very good anyway.. Implementing connection pooling later would suck
04:14	augustl	feels a bit like I'm a pioneer by wanting to use in-memory h2 for my tests :)
04:23	xificurC	does anyone have a working windows batch file for starting clj files? I tried the one mentioned in wikibooks but I get "Exception in thread "main" java.io.FileNotFoundException"
04:26	AtKaaZ	I'm on windows but I don't know what you mean
04:27	xificurC	http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Clojure_Programming/Getting_Started#Create_clj_Script
04:28	AtKaaZ	the batch is for very old clojure 1.2.0 which had contrib, you could try using leiningen instead
04:39	clgv	xificurC: better use leiningen 2.0 - it has a much better REPL built-in
04:44	augustl	Korma returns "{:scope_identity() 1}" for an insert, the docs say it is supposed to return just the ID. Anyone know what's going on there?
04:49	augustl	seems that Clojure isn't a good fit for talking to SQL databases
04:50	xificurC	clgv: I wanted to be able to run clj files from the command prompt, not opening the repl. Or am I not understanding you correctly?
04:52	clgv	xificurC: ah ok.
05:08	alex_baranosky	august1: Korma really returns whatever java.jdbc returns
05:09	alex_baranosky	that's a bit of a PITA, because it seems like different DBs return different things… However there is also some possibility that a recent change broke something
05:10	augustl	alex_baranosky: yeah I just noticed, tried raw jdbc, same thing
05:10	alex_baranosky	so we should update the Korma docs
05:10	augustl	alex_baranosky: it seems that I need to use an ORM or some kind of abstraction layer in order to be able to use different DBS anyway
05:10	alex_baranosky	not sure how much can be done about changing it, because it probably goes all the way down to the JDBC implementation for the db in question
05:10	augustl	just got lots of errors I didn't get on H2 when switching to MySQL
05:11	augustl	so then at least I can write db specific hacks :)
05:12	alex_baranosky	db specific changes is potentially a lot of work. I already did a DB specific change for COUNT on Mysql. On th done hand it make some sense to be able to generate the SQL you can use, on the other hand it will make Korma much more compilcated
05:13	augustl	are there any general approaches to doing db reset between tests for jdbc/mysql?
05:13	alex_baranosky	augustl: specifically which errors are you seeing? are you setting your delimiters to "`"? I need that for MySQL
05:13	augustl	alex_baranosky: I got an error when inserting a date as a string, h2 accepted it but mysql barfed
05:13	alex_baranosky	augustl: not sure, but I like th idea of using an in memory db
05:14	alex_baranosky	oh, I see. I guess its best to stick to the most standard approaches you can find
05:14	augustl	alex_baranosky: that's what I've been trying to set up, but it seems I would have to do a _lot_ of work to set it up
05:14	alex_baranosky	have you tried SQLLite?
05:15	augustl	no, but the fact that mysql and h2 behaved differently made me decide not to use in-memory for tests..
05:15	alex_baranosky	you could preparse inputs into Timestamps if running in test…. but that kinda stinks
05:16	alex_baranosky	I think the approach has a lot of merit, esp if you have a lot of tests that want to hit the DB
05:18	augustl	I want my tests to be correct, not fast :)
05:18	ebaxt	augustl: Have you tried setting compatibility mode in H2? jdbc:h2:~/test;MODE=MySQL
05:19	augustl	hmm, seems clojure.java.jdbc doesn't support dropping databases
05:20	alex_baranosky	ebaxt: nice one
05:20	augustl	ebaxt: no, but now that I'm aware of the fact that jdbc doesn't abstract away differences (which makes sense tbh), I'm inclined to use MySQL itself
05:22	ebaxt	augustl: We use oracle in prod, and h2 for tests. By setting compatibility mode we at least shave of some sharp edges. We use an ORM, but a lot of the queries are native so it does at least help in some ways :)
05:25	augustl	ebaxt: I suppose money would be an issue in that case :)
05:25	augustl	using Oracle as the database when running the tests, that is
05:27	augustl	I'll just do a full drop, create and load schema for every test. And switch to h2 if it gets too slow
05:28	augustl	alex_baranosky: does Korma do anything magic with dates etc for inserts? Or do I need to fix that myself? I.e. convert the string I get from JSON to a java.sql.Date
05:29	alex_baranosky	Korma does no magic. It aims to just be a way to turn sexps into SQL queries
05:29	augustl	I see
05:38	ejackson	augustl: are you using anything clever for the schemas ?
05:39	augustl	ejackson: no, it's pretty basic stuff
05:40	ejackson	Just wondering :)
05:41	augustl	ejackson: it's just DROP DATABASE IF EXISTS, CREATE DATABASE, and the create table stuff in clojure.java.jdbc
05:42	ejackson	ok, some time back I had a look at thing that could infer FKs and the like and build a tree of the schema. Only they were in their infancy. I was hoping you might be using one so I could get a free update on their status ;)
05:58	AWizzArd	currently nrepl.el shows me the buffer nrepl-connection. This is of no use for me — how can I have emacs hide it from me?
05:59	AWizzArd	Ah okay, found it.
06:38	augustl	is there a way to "touch" the results in with-query-results of clojure.java.jdbc, so I can return a list of maps for all the data in the result?
06:41	augustl	or: how do I return all rows for a SELECT with clojure.java.jdbc
06:42	augustl	"doall" seems to work
06:44	ska2342	can someone tell me how to pursuade maven to run just the tests for one namespace in the clojure project itself?
07:22	augustl	anyone here used a data validation library other than the clojurewerkz one?
08:08	Bodil	augustl: Does core.logic count? :)
08:25	bozhidar	Hey, guys! I've been working recently on a Clojure coding style guide and would really like to hear your thoughts, feedback and suggestions to improve/extend it. Here's a link to the current version https://github.com/bbatsov/clojure-style-guide
08:34	hyPiRion	bozhidar: I've always wondered about "Limit the use of commas in collection literals."
08:36	hyPiRion	A quick glance at e.g. {132 3145 3345 88 1045 0 192387 5} doesn't easily show us whether 0 is a key or a value, whereas {132 3145, 3345 88, 1045 0, 192387 5} makes it easy to see.
08:36	bozhidar	hyPiRion: personally I have nothing against them, but several people commented that their use was considered bad style, therefore that particular rule
08:36	hyPiRion	I can see it when you have a map with keywords as keys and non-keywords as values though.
08:37	loliveira	bozhidar: i liked.
08:37	bozhidar	hyPiRion: I don't imagine someone has to deal with such map that often :-)
08:37	bozhidar	maps*
08:39	hyPiRion	bozhidar: An extreme example, I know. It's just that I find commas at times useful for grouping key-value pairs
08:39	Bodil	bozhidar: I don't use commas in map literals myself, but that rule is a bit odd given that Clojure itself serialises them with commas.
08:42	bozhidar	hyPiRion Bodil: It's not me that you need to convince, I'm generally with you on this one
08:43	stain_	bozhidar: yes, there should be counterexamples for when commas are good
08:44	hyPiRion	bozhidar: Argh, and I was here hoping for a fight. Oh well.
08:44	cmdrdats	bozhidar: nice work on the style guide, i like it :)
08:44	hyPiRion	I'll possibly voice my concerns later on.
08:44	bozhidar	Here's some feedback I received initially when I suggested the use of commas in maps https://github.com/bbatsov/clojure-style-guide/issues/1 (and I received more via other mediums)
08:44	hyPiRion	/s/concerns/views/
08:44	stain_	"Start every namespace with a comprehensive ns" should probably say the preferred order
08:44	mpenet	indentation or commas, pick your choice
08:45	bozhidar	stain_: good point
08:45	mpenet	at least for maps, for the other DS I dont bother
08:46	stain_	bozhidar: but lots of good stuff in there, mate/lass!
08:46	bozhidar	stain_: Could you please open a ticket about this so I won't forget to add it?
08:47	bozhidar	stain_: mate :-) Bozhidar is an obscure male name in the Cyrillic parts of the world (like the infamous Eastern Europe)
08:47	clgv	bozhidar: why are commas in maps bad? they really help if you have a lot of kv-pairs
08:48	stain_	bozhidar: "This rule should obviously be ignored if the complementing predicate exists in the form of a separate function (e.g. even? and odd?)." - make this into a separate rule - something like "Use predicate functions directly if they exists"
08:48	stain_	bozhidar: I kind of guessed it would be.. like Baltazar
08:48	stain_	ah man.. tickets! This is too much!
08:48	ChongLi	isn't there some point where your map literal grows too large to reasonably keep in your source file?
08:49	ChongLi	perhaps then it can have commas when it's serialized to another file
08:50	bozhidar	ChongLi: As Bodil already mentioned maps are serialized with commas anyways
08:51	ChongLi	yeah so that seems like a reasonable guideline
08:51	bozhidar	ChongLi: I guess so
08:52	ChongLi	though I guess those commas might use more bandwidth on the wire
08:52	stain_	bozhidar: Naming should discourage overlapping of clojure.core except for specialized reimplementations
08:52	ChongLi	which is kind of silly
08:53	bozhidar	stain_: Why so? After all we do have namespaces in Clojure and we all know that the use of use is bad :-)
08:55	stain_	bozhidar: where does it say..? :)
08:56	ChongLi	bozhidar: it is a style guide, after all
08:56	ChongLi	do not take anything for granted
08:56	ChongLi	the reader may be completely new
08:56	stain_	bozhidar: I meant also that you should try not to make a function argument called 'map'
08:57	bozhidar	stain_: ah, now I see. I'll add something on the subject.
08:57	stain_	so perhaps two.. don't shadow functions from clojure.core in local bindings - and the second, which would give you warnings anyway, is to not 'redefine' those functions unless you are really intending to
08:58	bozhidar	ChongLi: Indeed. At some point I plan to add a bit of rationale behind some of the advices (especial the more obscure ones)
08:59	bozhidar	stain_: sounds good to me
09:02	stain_	I would want to see specific guideline on the recommended way to access maps - I don't know what is the current best practice. I use the dictionary as a function if it's being passed to something, but I call the (:keyword the-dict) if I just want something there and then. I almost never do (the-dict :keyword) and only use the (get) function on strings coming from elsewhere - (get the-dict (:name the-request))
09:02	stain_	but I don't know if that is the standard
09:02	stain_	perhaps the last one should be (the-dict (:name the-request))
09:03	stain_	no need for get there either unless it's being used in a higher-level function
09:04	bozhidar	(:key map) is the idiomatic way to get an element out of a map; of that I'm certain
09:04	stain_	so that should be in
09:04	bozhidar	indeed
09:04	stain_	and the exceptions would be where you are doing some functional magic or have other kind of keys
09:08	iamedu	Hi! I'm looking for some help... with jdbc and the jvm... this roughly explains my problem... http://eugeneciurana.com/pastebin/pastebin.php?show=45650
09:18	zby	I've decided to tryout clojure - can I get some help here? https://gist.github.com/4564733 - why it is not looking into 'src'?
09:19	zby	I followed the README from https://github.com/ring-clojure/ring/wiki/Getting-Started
09:19	aperiodic	zby: your syntax is incorrect. it should be (use 'login_app.core)
09:19	zby	ah
09:19	aperiodic	zby: note there's only one quotation mark
09:20	zby	I see it now
09:24	zby	thaks a lot!
09:26	aperiodic	you're welcome!
09:29	amalloy	also should be login-app, not login_app
09:31	amalloy	stain_: i don't think i ever use (m k), always preferring instead (get m k). perhaps i'm silly, or perhaps i'm prepared for the possibility that my map might be nil
09:34	zby	yeah - that one I found myself :)
09:40	amalloy	huh! i didn't realize that ##(let [stuff (fn [])] stuff) caused the function's classname to include "stuff"; i thought only (fn stuff []) did that
09:40	lazybot	⇒ #<sandbox47486$eval79130$stuff__79131 sandbox47486$eval79130$stuff__79131@144cbe2>
10:26	augustl	been failing for a while now to implement this: https://www.refheap.com/paste/8744 any suggestions?
10:26	augustl	a nested filter, so to speak
10:26	djcoin_	Whats are the preferred way to shrink the start up time of the jvm ? Can't recall the name of the differents libs and who is the best
10:28	joegallo	if you aot your clojure code, and you put your stuff on the bootstrap classpath, then i think you're basically getting as fast as you can get
10:28	joegallo	leiningen does a fair amount of that stuff, you can look at what phil does there
10:29	chouser	djcoin_: for your development cycle, or some other context?
10:29	S11001001	augustl: it's a map, where the f you give to map uses filter
10:29	augustl	S11001001: ah, I've only used filter
10:30	djcoin_	chouser: I can't remember but I saw somewhere tricks like keeping a jvm somewhere so it will actually already be started or something like this. It is just for accessing quickly the repl
10:31	augustl	S11001001: btw, the nesting can be infinitely deep.. Guess that doesn't help? :)
10:32	chouser	yeah, there are tools for that, but they all have various caveats. I'd recommend getting comfortable with and editor integration, like nrepl.el or foreplay
10:32	S11001001	augustl: then keep mapping until the structure is the right one for filter
10:32	augustl	S11001001: so a recursive map should work?
10:32	S11001001	augustl: yes
10:38	djcoin_	chouser: any hints for a vim user ?
10:39	chouser	djcoin_: I haven't tried it yet, but I've heard this is the new hotness: https://github.com/tpope/vim-foreplay
10:39	progo	I don't understand what's bad about VimClojure
10:40	ChongLi	ahh, this is interesting
10:40	ChongLi	if only I could get vim back into my head
10:40	ChongLi	it's so confusing switching back and forth between emacs and vim
10:41	chouser	ChongLi: I recommend evil in emacs. That's what I use.
10:41	ChongLi	oh yeah?
10:41	ChongLi	I tried a few of the other modes and they were kinda janky
10:41	progo	evil made me convert as well
10:42	ChongLi	what's better about evil?
10:42	progo	it's done very well indeed
10:42	ChongLi	I'm so damn used to emacs default keybindings
10:42	ChongLi	does evil strictly add to those?
10:42	chouser	ChongLi: yes, the other modes generally try to provide vi bindings. evil provides vim bindings.
10:43	ChongLi	do all of the vim modes work? rectangular visual etc?
10:43	chouser	yes
10:43	ChongLi	hmmm
10:43	ChongLi	I'll definitely give it a try then
10:43	chouser	and it keeps getting better, pretty rapidly
10:44	ChongLi	and it meshes well with emacs plugins like paredit?
10:44	ChongLi	or is insert mode just regular emacs?
10:44	progo	insert mode maps to emacs mode, but there is also an "Emacs mode"
10:45	chouser	It's pretty fun to combine a multi-stroke vim command like ca( with a paredit like slurp, and the repeat the whole thing as needed with vim's .
10:45	ChongLi	that's pretty crazy
10:46	chouser	ChongLi: it's not perfect, especially in other special mode like org, package-list, etc. For those you often either have to toggle in and out of emacs mode with C-z or escape individual emacs commands with \
10:46	progo	btw, what's the best tutorial on setting up clojure-mode on emacs with all the goodness. WHEN I already have an emacs with existing settings. I don't want any starter kit or 'clojure-in-box' solutions that google offers me so much.
10:47	chouser	like in org mode I usually stay in insert mode and type \<tab> to expand things
10:47	ChongLi	C-z? I thought that'd be a SIGSTP
10:47	ChongLi	suspending the process
10:47	progo	chouser, ChongLi: oh but evil provides decent support for appending to org-mode-map-{normal,insert,etc}
10:48	progo	it's manual tinkering, yes. But you can go very vim in these most emacs of modes.
10:48	ChongLi	it's amazing how deep the rabbit hole goes
10:49	maleghast	I gave up and started to learn emacs
10:49	ChongLi	I learned emacs as well
10:49	ChongLi	the main reason I'd be interested in this is for vim's useful command grammar
10:49	ChongLi	which is something I've always missed
10:50	maleghast	Fair enough - I don't even know what you're referring to.
10:50	maleghast	(not kidding or judging, I am not that über when it comes to vim or emacs ;-) )
10:51	ChongLi	emacs's strength has always been in domain-specific programs (major modes)
10:51	ChongLi	maleghast: vim uses a simple grammer of single letter commands and modifiers
10:51	ChongLi	such as c10w (change 10 words)
10:51	maleghast	Indeed
10:51	maleghast	I like those commands
10:52	ChongLi	it's very powerful and composable
10:52	ChongLi	especially when you get into text objects and such
10:52	progo	Try evil. You'll be surprised how close to real thing it can be.
10:53	maleghast	Oh I agree, I've just never got more than "head in" in terms of the rabbit hole.
10:53	ChongLi	the idea of using evil to extend emacs to this crazy hybrid
10:53	maleghast	I tried eVil mode - it just confused me wrt learning emacs.
10:53	ChongLi	yeah I think it's probably best saved for after you've become comfortable in emacs
10:56	maleghast	nods
10:56	ChongLi	so much to learn - so little time
10:56	ChongLi	I'm trying to learn webgl by implementing this tutorial stuff in clojurescript
10:57	ChongLi	it's pretty ugly transcribing the javascript directly into interop forms
10:57	ChongLi	later on I'll have to build some library to abstract that away
10:58	muhoo	progo: package-list-packages, install nrepl-mode, install leiningen per the instructions, then read the nrepl docs, i guess
10:58	ChongLi	are there any good FRP libs for clojurescript?
10:58	maleghast	FRP?
10:58	ChongLi	anyone trying anything there?
10:58	ChongLi	functional reactive programming
10:58	piranha	ChongLi: flapjax :)) there is shafty, but it's not completed yet
10:58	muhoo	foberglass reinforced plastic
10:59	piranha	https://github.com/cmeiklejohn/shafty
10:59	ChongLi	anyone here looked at Elm?
10:59	progo	muhoo: I'll check nrepl, thanks.
11:00	amalloy	clojurebot: FRP is functional reactive programming, or maybe fiberglass reinforced plastic
11:00	clojurebot	In Ordnung
11:00	piranha	ChongLi: I tried
11:00	piranha	but without much success, I don't know Haskell and tutorial isn't good enough
11:00	piranha	it just says: put this code in your file and you'll get something
11:00	ChongLi	elm seems really nice but it's incomplete
11:00	piranha	and then 5 lines of code
11:01	piranha	yeah, and examples are surely lacking, etc
11:01	ChongLi	yeah it's basically a one man project
11:01	ChongLi	the guy wrote the language as part of his thesis I believe
11:01	piranha	yep
11:02	piranha	I'm trying to get up and running with flapjax, but not finished yet
11:02	ChongLi	I really like the simple syntax elm uses for lifting an ordinary function into one that acts on reactive values
11:02	ChongLi	http://elm-lang.org/edit/examples/Reactive/Position.elm
11:03	ChongLi	this example, in particular, just seems so elegant
11:03	piranha	oh
11:03	ChongLi	asText is just a function that returns strings
11:04	ChongLi	and <~ is an infix function that lifts the first function into a function on reactive values
11:04	ChongLi	and Mouse.position is a source of reactive values
11:04	ChongLi	an event
11:05	ChongLi	I guess it's called a signal in Elm
11:05	ChongLi	so (<~) :: (a -> b) -> Signal a -> Signal b
11:05	piranha	ChongLi: behavior
11:06	piranha	<~ is an alias for lift, it seems, no?
11:06	ChongLi	it is
11:06	piranha	ah, yes, signal in elm, and behavior in flapjax
11:09	ChongLi	I like this flapjax demo
11:10	ChongLi	http://alandipert.github.com/flapjax-demo/
11:10	ChongLi	main.js is 708KB
11:10	ChongLi	haha
11:10	piranha	well it's not minified
11:10	ChongLi	yeah
11:10	muhoo	with advanced compilation?
11:11	ChongLi	no it's in full whitespace-preserving mode
11:11	ChongLi	pretty printed
11:11	ChongLi	and huge amounts of dead code
11:12	ChongLi	how many people are working on/with cljs?
11:13	ChongLi	it still seems like very early days
11:13	ChongLi	I really love the language though so I want to see it succeed
11:13	muhoo	lots,but yes its early
11:13	muhoo	dive in and help. source maps would be nice
11:15	ChongLi	this seems to be a big thing in general with minified stuff
11:16	ChongLi	it's like symbol tables all over again
11:16	ChongLi	javascript really is becoming the "assembly language of the web"
11:18	systemfault	Normal... JS itself sucks
11:18	ChongLi	yeah, that's obvious enough to everyone I think
11:19	ChongLi	but instead of fixing it we introduce all these workarounds that serve to further ingrain the language
11:20	muhoo	i think of technology as immutable
11:20	ChongLi	well in that case
11:21	ChongLi	we're holding onto these old references and stopping the GC from doing its job!
11:21	ChongLi	or I guess you could say the browsers are doing that
11:21	ChongLi	(the installed base of browsers)
11:22	muhoo	if you're on an intel cpu running unix,that gc is 30 years late.but so what, it works
11:23	ChongLi	it could be better
11:24	ChongLi	there's always going to be some frontier where all the innovation happens
11:24	ChongLi	but if it has to be built upon enough layers of legacy cruft, innovation slows
11:43	systemfault	So far, I've watched the Rick videos about clojure for java programmers and clojure datastructures... is there other videos that are "must-be seen"?
11:44	Bodil	ChongLi: There are many credible efforts to fix JS, but with that kind of legacy code base, don't expect it to happen overnight...
11:44	S11001001	systemfault: no
11:47	progo	nrepl-mode <3
11:47	scottj	systemfault: "must-be seen" as in "really good" or "have info essential for writing Clojure"?
11:47	systemfault	As in "I want to learn clojure and want enlightening videos about it"
11:48	progo	this really motivates me to upgrade old lein1 projects with great haste
11:49	scottj	systemfault: in that case I'd watch several more by Rich, including the concurrency video, are we there yet, datomic stuff/db as value, etc
11:49	systemfault	Noted :) Thanks
11:50	systemfault	I loved the clojure for java programmers talk... but didn't like those on datastructure as most of it was obvious :/
11:51	algernon	hammock driven development is pure gold too, altough it is completely language agnostic
11:51	systemfault	I thought it was a philosophical talk (Nothing technical)
11:53	matthavener	systemfault: is that talk available online somewhere?
11:53	pbostrom	kovas: I checked out session, it looks nice, I especially like your editor w/ paredit, I might have to steal that :)
11:53	systemfault	matthavener: Rick's? Look for clojuretv, they're all there
11:54	systemfault	http://www.youtube.com/user/ClojureTV
11:55	algernon	systemfault: it is, yes. still worth watching, imo.
11:56	matthavener	systemfault: thanks
11:58	scottj	systemfault: there's tons of good stuff at http://www.infoq.com/author/Rich-Hickey
12:01	augustl	maybe a bit off-topic.. I'm using clojure.java.jdbc and getting a MySQLIntegrityConstraintViolationException (as expected, from a unique index). Is there a generic way to read out the column name, or even know that this particular exception was due to an unique index? Other than grepping the message with a regexp or something.
12:03	augustl	I could always do a query first to see if it exists, but there's still the possibility of a race condition, so I would like to handle it via the exception always.
12:04	augustl	what I actually need to do: create an error message object, like {:email ["is taken"]}, based on that exception
12:04	maleghast	Have you thought about using (try …) ?
12:05	augustl	I am catching it yeah, the problem is to know that 1) the exception is for a unique index clash and 2) extract the column in question
12:05	maleghast	Oh I see, sorry.
12:06	augustl	can't find much on google
12:06	maleghast	No, I bet..
12:06	augustl	and matching on the message seems very unsafe..
12:06	augustl	but I would assume that this is something people do a lot
12:06	maleghast	Yeah, I reckon you're right...
12:06	augustl	apparently not..
12:07	maleghast	I haven't tried it (yet), but have you looked at sqlkorma?
12:07	maleghast	It might have a useful way to handle it.
12:08	augustl	not as far as I can tell
12:09	augustl	it's mostly a SQL DSL in Clojure and some connection management, it leaves the dirty stuff to the jdbc stack
12:09	maleghast	Oh right
12:10	augustl	someone suggested INSERT IGNORE, but that doesn't seem to help either
12:10	augustl	that means it's just, well, ignored. No insert, no exception
12:10	augustl	then there's table locking..
12:12	augustl	ah nice, the format of the error message is public, and associated with an error code
12:12	maleghast	Hmmm - it's an interesting problem… I have to run - conference call (yes at 1700h on a Friday headdesk) good luck with it!
12:23	amouat	Can someone explain to me what the clojurescript macro defpartial from the crate library does?
12:30	amouat	I guess it's just for making sure any functions generating html get wrapped in calls to crate.core/html?
12:30	ohpauleez	amouat: Yeah, it's just to create smaller partial pieces of HTML that you can use to build out full pages
12:33	amouat	ohpauleez: Thanks. I couldn't figure out why it was necessary at first, but it makes more sense now (after breaking things by not calling using it...)
12:33	ohpauleez	cool! np, happy to help
12:36	piranha	systemfault: I'm not sure if anyone mentioned that, but I love 'simple made easy'
12:37	loganlinn	$help
12:37	lazybot	You're going to need to tell me what you want help with.
12:45	gfredericks	so I google about how to get a jarname from java; it involves calling .getProtectionDomain().getCodeSource() on one of my classes
12:45	gfredericks	well I guess that works; since I have an uberjar I can do that on clojure.lang.RT
12:45	tomoj	http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/ZipFold/latest/doc/html/Data-Zip-FoldL.html
12:46	tomoj	data FoldL b a = F (a -> b -> a) a
12:46	tomoj	that looks awfully like 'mapping' etc
12:50	tomoj	but what about WithCont (FoldL b), i.e. WC (F (a -> b -> a) a) (a -> c)
12:51	tomoj	looks kind of like (fn ([] a0) ([a] c) ([a b] a'))
12:51	tomoj	but an operator like reducer can't tell whether you pass such a thing
12:52	tomoj	er, it looks not like 'mapping', but just like the things 'mapping' etc pass around - reducefs
12:52	TimMc	gfredericks: (-> + class .getProtectionDomain .getCodeSource) ;;= nil
12:57	konr_tra`	is there a name for clojure's data structure, like CLON?
12:58	hiredman	konr_tra`: https://github.com/edn-format/edn
12:58	AimHere	Nah. With clojure you just slurp it and read-string it
12:58	AimHere	After defining your DSL appropriately, of course
13:04	TimMc	That's "DSL" in the semantic sense, not some formal programmatic construct.
13:09	tomoj	if you had something that otherwise looked exactly like a vector, but which conj'd on the front, that would probably be bad, right?
13:11	kovas	pbostrom: thanks! I got it from https://github.com/achengs/subpar
13:13	llasram	tomoj: OOC, what's the benefit of `conj`ing onto the front?
13:13	pbostrom	kovas: just curious, have you looked into trying to start up multiple nrepls, or would that be too heavyweight?
13:13	kovas	pbostrom: there is a multiplayer mode in session right now
13:13	kovas	pbostrom: but not multiple nrepls to do the eval
13:16	pbostrom	kovas: ok, I see, I'll have to look at it a bit closer then, I think there is a bit of overlap in what I put together, it might make sense to do some collaboration
13:18	kovas	pbostrom: sweet. i'd like to figure out a way to make these sorts of projects more modular
13:18	kovas	pbostrom: what do you want to achieve with your thing?
13:20	tomoj	llasram: well, sometimes that's just what you want
13:20	tomoj	but really, I'm thinking about right folds
13:20	amalloy	tomoj: isn't that basically a queue, looked at upside-down?
13:21	tomoj	maybe, but this vector would peek and pop from the front
13:22	amalloy	so it's a list?
13:22	amalloy	or is the random access/update important?
13:22	tomoj	yeah, but indexed
13:22	llasram	Can't you just read a vector backwards?
13:22	tomoj	well I don't really want that right now, I'm thinking about how you might make a right-foldable vector
13:22	tomoj	right
13:23	tomoj	so you can return a reducer that reduces the vector backwards
13:23	tomoj	but it seems pretty easy to just let vectors be truly reversible
13:24	tomoj	maybe not so easy..
13:25	mmitchell	anyone here use compojure and friend? I'm attempting to segregate auth-based routes from non-auth routes, but no luck
13:26	pbostrom	kovas: I'm not quite sure yet, my first thought was to provide a sort of environment where beginners could collaborate with experienced coders to learn some key concepts
13:30	pbostrom	kovas: I'm hesitant to try to tackle the problem of a full on dev environment, it seems like an intermediate developer can easily set up a shared tmux session, especially given some of the tools like technomancy's syme
13:31	kovas	pbostrom: yeah. I just think the terminal-based repl need to die
13:31	Sgeo_	What's this about the terminal-based REPL needing to die?
13:31	Sgeo_	Is this anything like living in a Smalltalk-like image?
13:32	kovas	representing everything as text doesn't do justice to the stuff we want to create
13:32	technomancy	FSVO "we"
13:32	pbostrom	kovas: anything in particular you won't to accomplish with session next? Or should I just look over your issues list on gh?
13:32	kovas	also, being able to save values is definitely a win
13:33	kovas	(saving the VM state is too much complexity, but values we can certainly do)
13:33	pbostrom	s/won't/want/
13:33	kovas	pbostrom: the issues like is pretty comprehensive
13:33	kovas	list
13:35	pbostrom	kovas: ok, I'll keep an eye on the gh page, FYI, I put my code up, not sure if you'll find it useful, especially since I didn't document anything: https://github.com/pbostrom/cwo-public
13:35	Sgeo_	kovas, what's wrong with everything being represented as text if we have manipulation tools that hide the textual representation
13:36	Sgeo_	Alternatively: Everything is not text, but can be serialized to text easily
13:36	clojure-newb	hey guys.. when I put a second when form in my function it is returning nil… I'm not sure what is going on… I'm trying to place two when forms at the same level to catch different predicates, any ideas ?
13:37	dnolen`	clojure-newb: paste
13:37	kovas	Sgeo_: Yes I'm good with that, but that set of tools doesn't include the terminal
13:38	Sgeo_	kovas, hmm, so what do you have in mind?
13:38	Sgeo_	I rather like Smalltalk workspaces, but I can imagine there being better
13:38	kovas	Sgeo_: browser-based repl can render stuff inline
13:39	Sgeo_	Oh, we're talking webdev?
13:39	kovas	Sgeo_: you just put a protocol on your outputs and they render as whatever you want
13:39	Sgeo_	oh
13:39	kovas	Sgeo_: I'm more interesting in data visualization
13:39	kovas	Sgeo_: but theres plenty of situations where you want something more than text
13:39	clojure-newb	dnolen`: https://www.refheap.com/paste/8752
13:40	kovas	pbostrom: cool i will check it out!
13:40	Sgeo_	kovas, something like DrRacket?
13:40	kovas	Sgeo_: I'm more inspired by Mathematica, since I used to help built it
13:40	Sgeo_	I know DrRacket displays image values as actual images and lets you paste images as code, I imagine it could be extended to other sorts of things
13:40	kovas	Sgeo_: but yeah they have some basic stuff. its definitely the direction things are gonna go in
13:41	dnolen`	clojure-newb: that won't work, there's no such thing as early return in Clojure
13:41	cbp`	so my project starts a web server, anyone know how to make it create a console so that you can view messages and stop the server by closing the console?
13:41	kovas	Sgeo_: the IPython has that as well, also the Factor repl
13:41	clojure-newb	dnolen`: what would be the idiomatic clojure alternative ?
13:41	Sgeo_	Haven't touched Python in a while
13:42	kovas	Sgeo_: with clojure we have the benefit of the native dialect in the browser, so we can take it further
13:42	dnolen`	clojure-newb: use cond
13:42	Sgeo_	Also, forgot about Factor, I didn't ... quite remember something like that
13:42	clojure-newb	dnolen`: thanks
13:42	Sgeo_	kovas, there are a few Smalltalk dialects that run in Javascript
13:42	kovas	Sgeo_: the IPython thing is getting a lot of traction
13:44	gfredericks	is there any answer to the problem of not being able to put data-reader stuff in your code?
13:44	gfredericks	(generally)
13:44	yogthos	clojure-newb: this would probably be cleaner https://www.refheap.com/paste/8753
13:45	clojure-newb	yogthos: thanks… still trying to get the basics, that helps
13:46	yogthos	clojure-newb: no prob, I also hihgly recommend going through at least some problems on http://www.4clojure.com/
13:46	yogthos	clojure-newb: if you make an account you can see solutions from others when you solve a problem, this way you can get a feel for idiomatic code
13:46	clojure-newb	wow, loads on there
13:46	clojure-newb	thanks
13:54	seangrove	Hey guys, have a mildly annoying dev/production problem
13:54	ohpauleez	seangrove: let's hear it
13:55	seangrove	I have Oauth client-id's that I need to use in the frontend to start oauth flows, but they (obviously) differ between dev/production
13:55	seangrove	In rails, I pre-processed the js files with erb and put in the correct client-id depending on the RAILS_ENV, but not sure how to approach it with cljs
13:56	ohpauleez	seangrove: Can you do conditional builds of the frontend. Like pipelining infrastructure
13:56	seangrove	I could change the server around so the client just asks for the appropriate oauth client-id to use, but not 100% sure about it
13:56	technomancy	we need a clojurebot factoid for "use environ or carica depending on whether you need nested values or just strings"
13:56	seangrove	I don't have anything like that setup right now, I just run cljsbuild auto <env>
13:57	ohpauleez	https://github.com/sonian/carica
13:57	ohpauleez	I also use lein profiles for some stuff now
13:58	seangrove	Thanks for these guys, checking them out now
13:58	technomancy	clojurebot: config?
13:58	clojurebot	excusez-moi
13:58	tomoj	can a cljsbuild build pass in configuration somehow to macroland?
13:58	tomoj	e.g., I guess, set an environment var which tells which carica config file to load
13:59	hiredman	tomoj: no no, you use the classpath
13:59	TimMc	ohpauleez: Hot damn that's a nice README.
13:59	technomancy	clojurebot: config is <reply>use https://github.com/sonian/carica for reading .clj files off the classpath if you have complex structure and need nesting. use https://github.com/weavejester/environ if you can get away with just strings for everything.
13:59	clojurebot	Ik begrijp
13:59	tomoj	hmm.. so etc_dev/config.clj, etc_prod/config.clj
13:59	tomoj	and add one or the other to the classpath in your build?
14:00	technomancy	tomoj: typically resources/config.clj and dev-resources/config.clj
14:00	TimMc	tomoj: What are the consequences of using the wrong ID?
14:00	technomancy	but you can change it if you like for whatever reason
14:00	tomoj	ah, and the first one will be used
14:00	tomoj	so you don't have to do anything.. nice!
14:00	hiredman	tomoj: no, your deployment software (chef, puppet, whatever) overides the default config by writing a config file that ends up first on the classpath
14:01	gfredericks	so to use #inst with joda I want to create a data-readers.clj and redirect #inst to a clj-time function?
14:01	tomoj	sure
14:02	seangrove	And carica should work with cljs, presumably?
14:02	seangrove	I'm pretty fuzzy on how much clj libraries "just work" with cljs - it seems to be, "almost none"
14:02	tomoj	so then the stuff you put in your cljsbuild builds is orthogonal to stuff in config.clj
14:02	TimMc	Carica... that's the genus of papaya.
14:02	technomancy	seangrove: the cljs compiler is written in clojure, so your configuration should affect the compiled output
14:02	tomoj	you can run a prod/min build with your dev config.clj or a dev build with your prod config.clj
14:02	TimMc	Looks like I'm not the only one using biological taxonomy as a source for project names!
14:03	seangrove	Carica looks pretty awesome. Will try it out now
14:03	tomoj	seangrove: I think you'd need to define a macro if you just wanted to pull a config value out to js
14:03	technomancy	leathekd: why does the carica readme say to add a directory to :resource-paths?
14:05	leathekd	Hmm, I suppose it isn't necessary so long as the config file ends up on the classpath where carica will find it.
14:06	gfredericks	aaaaaaugh
14:06	technomancy	leathekd: yeah, just curious if you saw some special value in keeping it separate from other resources
14:06	leathekd	technomancy: It might be an artificial separation but I like having config separate from src.
14:06	technomancy	oh right; separate from src/ absolutely
14:06	TimMc	But why not in ./resources/?
14:06	technomancy	separate from other resources is what struck me as curious
14:07	seangrove	Hrm, I'm slightly confused how I set different resource-paths for different cljsbuilds: https://www.refheap.com/paste/88204855cbd6a01879b3aabc5
14:08	borkdude	,(-> 1)
14:08	clojurebot	1
14:08	leathekd	technomancy: ah, y'know, I don't think I was aware of the resources dir. I may even have personal projects with 'resources' in the resource-paths seq. heh
14:09	seangrove	Ah, maybe by default it'll build whatever's in :resouce-paths, but that can be changed by passing in ENV vars to affect the class-path at build time?
14:10	technomancy	seangrove: typically you control those with profiles
14:11	seangrove	Ok, I'll take a look at profiles then
14:11	frozenlock	cljsbuild - How can one include the externs.js file in the jar?
14:16	frozenlock	The .cljs is included, but not the externs.js... does this mean that the user must add the externs.js manually each time?
14:16	tomoj	hmm.. isa? hierarchies have to be made out of symbols, keywords, or classes, with classes only at the leaves, yes?
14:18	tomoj	oh, but with collection dispatch values.. I guess I never understood isa? dispatch
14:18	dnolen`	frozenlock: I don't know this so, you should look at how jayq does this
14:18	dnolen`	"I don't think so"
14:20	frozenlock	yeah that was my first reflex.. but jayq really seems to be a special case. Its project.clj --> (defproject jayq "2.0.0"
14:20	frozenlock	:description "A ClojureScript wrapper for jQuery")
14:27	dnolen`	frozenlock: oh hmm, then maybe create a resources directory and put your extern file in it? This has come up before. Might be worth going over the mailing list archives.
14:27	seangrove	tomoj: Yeah, carica doesn't work in cljs as-is, will try the macro route
14:28	frozenlock	dnolen`: indeed -> https://github.com/emezeske/lein-cljsbuild/issues/95
14:29	frozenlock	I moved stuff around in directories and it worked. :-)
14:29	dnolen`	frozenlock: nice
14:30	`fogus	dnolen: Are you planning to move infd into the fd ns?
14:34	dnolen`	`fogus: it's already been done
14:35	dnolen`	`fogus: infd is now fd/in if you require clojure.core.logic.fd :as fd
14:35	`fogus	ah!
14:35	dnolen`	`fogus: I'm removed all cases where names ended w/ a fd suffix
14:36	dnolen`	it's now fd/distinct, fd/+ etc
14:36	`fogus	OK. That's more clojurey
14:36	`fogus	;-)
14:36	dnolen`	`fogus: yes :)
14:40	`fogus	dnolen: I changed the examples page to use fd/ https://github.com/clojure/core.logic/wiki/Examples
14:40	dnolen`	`fogus: great thanks!
14:41	dnolen`	`fogus: I had fixed the other examples but missed that one.
14:41	`fogus	No worries. Thanks for c.l
14:41	dnolen`	`fogus: it's coming along slowly but surely!
14:44	borkdude	who wants to test if this Pong game runs? made by first year undergraduate students https://www.dropbox.com/s/i3j5mxwrtmaxioo/Pong.jar
14:50	ohpauleez	borkdude: Are you trying to root my system?
14:50	borkdude	lol
14:50	ohpauleez	blindly accepting executable jars is a no-no now haha
14:50	ohpauleez	:)
14:50	bbloom	ohpauleez: you're just doing it wrong. you need to blindly run lots of unverified code to build up your machine's immunities
14:51	bbloom	i thought you knew stuff about computers!
14:51	systemfault	What doesn't kill your OS makes it stronger, right?
14:51	zilti	Can I define some kind of "wildcards" in Compojure? Like saying "(GET "/foo/*" [args] ...) ?
14:51	seangrove	Ah, damn.. I can't use a macro inside of a function in cljs?
14:51	ohpauleez	haha, I know I've done a lot of autonomic computing… I suppose this is just the next logical step I should take
14:51	ohpauleez	bbloom: you've convinced me
14:52	zilti	seangrove: Only compile-time macros for cljs
14:52	amalloy	seangrove: you do that every day when you write (defn foo [] (let [...] ...))
14:52	seangrove	If zm/env-settings is a macro then, does this look acceptable? https://www.refheap.com/paste/920ca3135bc5627a18483c8e4
14:54	seangrove	I of couse get "zm is not defined" in the browser repl, which is reasonable
14:54	seangrove	I could pull them out into a top-level def so they're executed at compile time, I suppose
14:57	augustl	with ring.middleware.session and the cookie store, how do I implement a "remember me" checkbox?
14:58	ohpauleez	augustl: You set the :expires on the session
14:58	ohpauleez	how you toggle that in your code is up to you
14:59	augustl	reading the code, seems it also read out :session-cookie-attrs from the response too
14:59	augustl	ohpauleez: that's what I wanted to hear :)
15:00	seangrove	Alright, so if carica is telling me that some-path isn't a valid config when running "lein cljsbuild auto dev", but it works in clojure in the repl, is it likely I've messed up the profile?
15:04	tomoj	I guess check (System/getProperty "java.class.path") inside a cljs macro
15:05	tomoj	I see strange-looking stuff in cljsbuild about running 'in a subproject'
15:07	tomoj	bbloom: do you know if dispatch-map suffers contention problems like those recently fixed in multimethods?
15:07	bbloom	tomoj: link?
15:08	tomoj	http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-988
15:08	tomoj	I guess since it's an atom, no?
15:09	bbloom	oh yeah, no mine shouldn't suffer from that at all
15:09	bbloom	they put the state in an atom
15:09	tomoj	https://github.com/clojure/clojure/commit/83ebf814d5d6663c49c1b2d0d076b57638bff673
15:10	tomoj	just more overhead than multimethods then?
15:10	bbloom	no, a dispatch-map should be cheaper than a multimethod
15:10	bbloom	it's a subcomponent of multimethods
15:10	tomoj	oh, right, but I mean using dispatch-map's reimpl of multimethods
15:11	bbloom	maaaybe, but that cost would be 1) very small and 2) only paid on defmethod
15:11	bbloom	shouldn't really have any serious runtime impact
15:12	tomoj	cool
15:13	bbloom	yeah you can see for youself in https://github.com/brandonbloom/dispatch-map/blob/master/src/dispatch_map/core.clj
15:13	bbloom	basically search for @
15:13	bbloom	or !
15:13	bbloom	just like dispatch map gained a State class
15:14	bbloom	er i mean just like real multimethods gained a State class
15:14	bbloom	dispatch map has DispatchCache
15:14	bbloom	which is stored in an atom
15:14	bbloom	real multimethods then use a lock for the defmethod, prefer, etc
15:14	bbloom	but i use an atom for that too
15:15	bbloom	so atom + lock vs 2 atoms
15:16	seangrove	Hrm, it seems like resource-paths is ignored by cljsbuild?
15:18	seangrove	technomancy: Should this be resource-paths here? https://github.com/emezeske/lein-cljsbuild/blob/master/plugin/src/leiningen/cljsbuild/subproject.clj#L66
15:19	seangrove	Looks like it might be ignoring resource-paths in project.clj for lein2 projects
15:21	seangrove	Yeah, that didn't fix my problem, but at least my resource-paths are on the classpath now
15:28	frozenlock	I need help with cljs... I've done a wrapper for a js library. Everything works fine on its own, but I can't seem to require it from another project. Is there some magic stuff going on with underscores in the namespaces?
15:29	frozenlock	In my wrapper: (ns envision-cljs.core). In my other project: (ns myprojectname.core (:require [envision-cljs.core :as v]))
15:29	Bodil	frozenlock: Yeah, if your namespace is called envision-cljs.core, the file path needs to be envision_cljs/core.cljs
15:30	Bodil	frozenlock: Just a wild guess at what's wrong, mind you, but that's the one I always keep running into :)
15:31	frozenlock	Yeah I do often too, but in this case I did use the "_" in my path, which is why I'm confused.
15:32	seangrove	leathekd: Are there any debug options for carica so I can see why " (:google_docs :client_id) isn't a valid config"? I can't seem to get values to load when compiling cljs
15:32	Bodil	frozenlock: In that case I'm confused too...
15:33	frozenlock	It's my first cljs library that uses an externs.js; I'm not usre if it's related.
15:35	frozenlock	me 3 days ago "Oh, let me do that in cljs, I'll save time!"
15:36	frozenlock	I was so young and naive back then.
15:36	seangrove	Uhg, carica works in the repl, even the cljs repl, but when compiling cljs carica won't put in the value... maybe carica isn't loaded at that point?
15:40	seangrove	Ah, ok, so it looks like the fix to lein-cljsbuild subproject.clj did the trick. Phew.
15:40	seangrove	The yaks are out with a vengeance today
15:40	clojurebot	what should I do today, it is the weekend and all
15:41	frozenlock	Ok something funny is going on here. Every library is in the .lein-cljsbuild-compiler-X folder, except for my new one.
15:41	frozenlock	(I did clean and recompile multiple times)
15:44	seangrove	frozenlock: I wrapper handlebars in cljs with an extern file, but I haven't released it as a jar, so haven't gone through any of this
15:45	seangrove	Would be much appreciated if you can keep track of what you had to do
15:45	frozenlock	seangrove: Fear not, I'm on this since yesterday evening... I'm so mad that I won't forget a thing :p
15:59	frozenlock	omg
15:59	frozenlock	omg omg omg omg
15:59	frozenlock	someone please shoot me
15:59	amalloy	once you said omg five times, i was going to even if you didn't ask
15:59	frozenlock	core.clj ---> core.cljs
15:59	aroemers	I think the bots won't let us..
16:02	Thallasios_Xelon	hello guys :)
16:03	Thallasios_Xelon	i want to do something like (let [ (first l) 5] .....)
16:03	Thallasios_Xelon	its an error right?
16:03	Thallasios_Xelon	i stuck...
16:03	nDuff	Thallasios_Xelon: what do you actually want to do?
16:03	nDuff	Thallasios_Xelon: ...that is -- what's the effect of this supposed to be?
16:04	nDuff	Do you have a local "l" which already exists outside this scope, and you want to change the value of only its first element within the let?
16:04	Thallasios_Xelon	i want to bind a variable,inside let
16:04	Thallasios_Xelon	not a constant symbol
16:04	nDuff	Thallasios_Xelon: Why is "first" involved?
16:04	nDuff	...
16:05	nDuff	Oh. The easy answer is "you can't".
16:05	Thallasios_Xelon	(let [ symbol 5]
16:05	Thallasios_Xelon	i want to determine the symbol on runtime
16:05	Thallasios_Xelon	can i?
16:05	nDuff	No.
16:05	Thallasios_Xelon	:)
16:05	nDuff	If you really have a legitimate use case for that, use a macro.
16:06	nDuff	...but I'd be curious to hear it.
16:06	ibdknox	Chances are you don't need to
16:06	Thallasios_Xelon	i am really newbie
16:06	nDuff	...and if you do have a real-world use case, there's probably a better way to satisfy it
16:06	nDuff	(such as a thread-local binding for a var)
16:07	Thallasios_Xelon	i want to use a thread-local binding,but with a variable symbol like (binding [ symbol_on_run_time_or_macro 5]
16:08	Thallasios_Xelon	can i use a macro for that?
16:08	seangrove	Thallasios_Xelon: But why do you want to do that?
16:08	seangrove	What are you trying to accomplish
16:08	Thallasios_Xelon	a have a boolean formula,that i want to evaluate
16:09	Thallasios_Xelon	with different bindings
16:09	Thallasios_Xelon	each time
16:09	augustl	is there something like form authenticity tokens in Rails for Ring?
16:09	ibdknox	augustl: https://github.com/weavejester/ring-anti-forgery
16:10	frozenlock	Thallasios_Xelon: to play with symbols https://www.refheap.com/paste/8756
16:11	ibdknox	if you want dynamically bound symbols you can use with-bindings
16:11	ibdknox	I still doubt that's really what you want though
16:11	ibdknox	,(doc with-bindings)
16:12	clojurebot	"([binding-map & body]); Takes a map of Var/value pairs. Installs for the given Vars the associated values as thread-local bindings. The executes body. Pops the installed bindings after body was evaluated. Returns the value of body."
16:12	Thallasios_Xelon	thx guys i will try reading and trying
16:16	augustl	idlecool: nice, thanks
16:16	aroemers	frozenlock: nice macro, found a good use for it in my current project.
16:17	frozenlock	aroemers: Thanks. I was pretty sure it could only help me and my idiosyncrasies :)
16:17	augustl	ibdknox, not idlecool, sorry
16:19	brainproxy	win +1
16:19	Thallasios_Xelon	if you wanted to evaluate a boolean formula, (and a b) for many a,b values what would you do?
16:19	brainproxy	derp
16:20	frozenlock	Is there a way to get a function's documentation from a cljs repl?
16:20	Thallasios_Xelon	i thought that i would be easy not to touch the formula,and evaluate it in different bindings for a and b
16:21	Thallasios_Xelon	d
16:22	augustl	ibdknox: semi off-topic, do you need CSRF protection for a JSON API? I can't think of a way for someone to POST JSON to that API from another origin
16:22	augustl	err, not just ibdknox, anyone :)
16:22	ibdknox	yes, you can just use curl
16:23	ibdknox	Thallasios_Xelon: ,(map and [true true] [false true])
16:23	augustl	or perhaps an <input type="hidden" name="json here"> would work actually
16:23	ibdknox	,(map and [true true] [false true])
16:23	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Can't take value of a macro: #'clojure.core/and, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
16:23	TimMc	augustl: Cross-site POST works.
16:23	dnolen	Thallasios_Xelon: how is that not solved by (defn f [a b] (and a b)) ?
16:23	ibdknox	,(map #(and % %2) [true true] [false true])
16:23	clojurebot	(false true)
16:24	TimMc	augustl: So yes, you need CSRF protection of some form. It may be as simple as checking that the request was made by XHR, which I believe adds a special header.
16:24	Thallasios_Xelon	dnolen the formula isnt stable
16:24	Thallasios_Xelon	but thanks
16:25	augustl	TimMc: was thinking that if I only accept JSON, I would be safe. But with that hidden input you should be able to send json anyway
16:26	Thallasios_Xelon	i want to evaluate any formula
16:26	ibdknox	augustl: I can send anything I want from curl
16:26	ibdknox	with xhr headers
16:27	ibdknox	as json
16:27	augustl	ibdknox: right, but that's not related to CSRF
16:27	Thallasios_Xelon	bye guys thx :))
16:27	dnolen	Thallasios_Xelon: sounds like you need write some kind of solver then, trying to piggy back of the standard evalution model probably isn't going to work for you.
16:28	augustl	CSRF = exploiting the fact that POST-ing a form to some foreign origin causes the browser to send any cookies it might have with it, hence the need for a token
16:28	Thallasios_Xelon	i think i will use refs,as symbols to solve it
16:28	augustl	so, I was thinking that if the place you can POST to only accepts JSON, that'd be OK, but I guess there are ways to make plain forms to JSON
16:37	augustl	seems that a web based API shouldn't use cookies for authentication. Eliminating cookies = eliminating CSRF
16:37	TimMc	augustl: I suppose the form submission would have a "form-encoded" header, which you could check against.
16:38	augustl	TimMc: I guess there's always some odd browser that doesn't even set that header :)
16:38	TimMc	bleh
16:38	TimMc	Actually, I doubt that.
16:39	augustl	hmm, me too, but that means I'd base security on assumptions
16:39	TimMc	If I were in your place I would be checking for known solutions.
16:39	TimMc	I haven't had to worry about CSRF in a while.
16:40	TimMc	...but it's a pretty well-solved problem, IIRC.
16:42	augustl	the only problem is probably that I'm complecting things by having an API and a website that can use that API on the same domain ;)
16:42	augustl	should separate them so my website doesn't gain additional privileges towards the API from being on the same origin
16:42	TimMc	Look into the XHR header thing. I think that's pretty solid.
16:45	seangrove	augustl: Also, CORS
16:47	bbloom	if you write a java class that has a name endeding in List and you implement precisely ZERO collection interfaces: fuck you.
16:48	systemfault	Haha
16:50	tomoj	yes :(
16:50	tomoj	or a Map
16:52	augustl	seangrove: I find CORS to be too specific, since I explicitly have to permit hostnames
16:52	seangrove	I think you can wildcard
16:53	seangrove	Or you can check the origin of the incoming request and set your cors headers to allow that
16:53	ohpauleez	you can wildcard
16:53	ohpauleez	or you can support JSONP
16:54	augustl	seangrove: you can't wildcard on HTTPS and with cookies
16:54	augustl	wildcard = no cookies
16:54	augustl	with good reason :)
16:54	ohpauleez	ahh
16:54	ohpauleez	sure, totally
16:54	seangrove	Ah, I see
16:54	seangrove	Every request I make that way just includes the api-key, so no cookies
16:54	augustl	so, I'll separate the webapp and the api, and proxy the api from my webapp, and use CORS protection on the web app only
16:55	augustl	the api will ignore cookies completely
16:55	augustl	seangrove: yeah :)
16:55	augustl	the web app needs to store the api key in a cookie, but that's not a problem, since the web app is XSRF protected
16:55	augustl	s/and use CORS/and use XSRF proteection/
16:56	seangrove	Jesus christ, I think I may have fiished the second have of the ui for Zenbox
16:57	seangrove	UI (at least in js) is by far the most painful part of dev so far
16:57	seangrove	I have got to start an open-source project to port something like IB to clojurescript
16:57	seangrove	As far as I can tell, it's basically entirely declarative, no?
16:58	augustl	seangrove: if you aren't using AngularJS, there's a high probability you are using the wrong tool :)
16:58	seangrove	Using cljs and google closure ui
16:58	augustl	the problem (imo) with google closure UI is that it's essentially just a better DOM
16:59	augustl	you're still on your own when you want to update your UI when data changes
16:59	seangrove	augustl: Yeup
16:59	seangrove	The built-in controls are pretty nice though, still
17:00	augustl	angular provides the best solution to this problem I've ever seen :) https://twitter.com/silentbicycle/status/269128913572208640/photo/1/large
17:05	augustl	seangrove: this is very unscientific of course, but I rewrote an app in AngularJS in two weeks that I spent many months trying to program in Google Closure
17:05	augustl	this app was wery stateful in nature though, lots of new state over the wire and state changes that affected the entire app, making angularjs a perfect fit
17:06	seangrove	augustl: I've simulated that a bit using shoreleave's pubsub and handlers
17:06	seangrove	But it's pretty manul
17:06	seangrove	Haven't found the right patterns to abstract yet
17:08	ohpauleez	seangrove: Hopefully the new Shoreleave updates help smooth that out
17:08	seangrove	ohpauleez: Very much looking forward to it
17:08	seangrove	Trying not to pester you too much about it, now that working off of master for shoreleave-browser works
17:08	frozenlock	ohpauleez: Is the new version ready?
17:08	frozenlock	I'm at a point where I need server/client communication, and I would like to use shoreleave :)
17:09	ohpauleez	(subscribe-> …) has been added, remote-ns is supported on Ring/Compojure, improvements in handling failures better
17:09	ohpauleez	frozenlock: Getting there: https://github.com/shoreleave/shoreleave-baseline
17:09	ohpauleez	I'm a little bit behind from where I wanted to be, but I've cut one production app (light traffic, internal use only) over
17:17	antoineB	hello, what kind of deconstructor we have in clojure? i know vector and map, is there orthers?
17:18	TimMc	antoineB: It's not really a vector, it's a sequential destructurer.
17:18	ohpauleez	antoineB: You can destructure any associative or sequential thing
17:18	TimMc	hmm...
17:19	TimMc	,(let [{a 0} [:bar]] a)
17:19	clojurebot	:bar
17:19	TimMc	,(let [{a :foo} {:foo :bar}] a)
17:19	clojurebot	:bar
17:19	ohpauleez	TimMc: Are you saying hmmm.. as in, "Records?" or hmmm… "it's probably a protocol"
17:19	TimMc	So yeah, vectors can be destructured in two different ways.
17:19	gtrak	,(let [{a :foo} [[:foo :bar]] a)
17:19	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: Unmatched delimiter: )>
17:20	TimMc	The associative destructuring is probably more performant. :-/
17:20	gtrak	,(let [{a :foo} [[:foo :bar]]] a) ; darnit
17:20	clojurebot	nil
17:20	amalloy	TimMc: why would you say that?
17:20	systemfault	Do you guys think that a small IRC bot would be a good starting project for clojure?
17:20	systemfault	I have no other idea for now..
17:20	TimMc	amalloy: The sequential destructurer uses nth.
17:20	amalloy	so?
17:20	amalloy	nth is fast on vectors
17:21	TimMc	Oh, is it? I thought it forced a seq.
17:21	ohpauleez	systemfault: Are you looking for starter projects?
17:21	TimMc	,(doc nth)
17:21	clojurebot	"([coll index] [coll index not-found]); Returns the value at the index. get returns nil if index out of bounds, nth throws an exception unless not-found is supplied. nth also works for strings, Java arrays, regex Matchers and Lists, and, in O(n) time, for sequences."
17:21	TimMc	,(nth (range 1 10) 1000)
17:21	gtrak	ah, oops, I did it wrong, ##(let [{a :foo} '(:foo :bar)] a)
17:21	clojurebot	#<IndexOutOfBoundsException java.lang.IndexOutOfBoundsException>
17:21	lazybot	⇒ :bar
17:22	systemfault	ohpauleez: Exactly.. something that would cover the basics.. data structures, functions, I/O
17:22	TimMc	gtrak: wat
17:23	gtrak	,(let [{a :foo} [:foo :bar]] a)
17:23	clojurebot	nil
17:23	antoineB	does exists other deconstructor like (let [#my-stuff[a b] something] a) ?
17:23	gtrak	,(let [{a :foo} (seq [:foo :bar])] a)
17:23	clojurebot	:bar
17:23	ohpauleez	systemfault: HTML screen scraping using Enlive, a tic-tac-toe AI, a site-generator (like jekyll)
17:23	gtrak	wat wat
17:24	systemfault	ohpauleez: Good ideas, thank you :)
17:24	ohpauleez	totally welcome
17:24	antoineB	ohpauleez: a jekyll that read clojure maps as data, should be fun
17:25	TimMc	&(destructure '[{a :foo} (seq [:foo :bar])]) ;; gtrak
17:25	lazybot	⇒ [map__79211 (seq [:foo :bar]) map__79211 (if (clojure.core/seq? map__79211) (clojure.core/apply clojure.core/hash-map map__79211) map__79211) a (clojure.core/get map__79211 :foo)]
17:26	gtrak	yup
17:26	TimMc	,(let [{a 0} (range)] a) ;; so this should blow up
17:27	amalloy	wow, that blew up even more than i expected
17:27	TimMc	botgone?
17:27	TimMc	&(let [{a 0} (range)] a) ;; so this should blow up slightly less
17:28	lazybot	Execution Timed Out!
17:28	TimMc	$botsnack
17:28	lazybot	TimMc: Thanks! Om nom nom!!
17:29	gtrak	&(range)
17:29	lazybot	java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space
17:32	gtrak	,(throw (Exception. "##(println $botsnack)"))
17:32	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: $botsnack in this context
17:32	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.Exception: ##(println $botsnack)>
17:33	gtrak	,(throw (Exception. "##(println \"$botsnack\")"))
17:33	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.Exception: ##(println "$botsnack")>
17:35	scottj	yedi: you asked about prismatic and clojurescript the other day. in case you didn't see it, they posted about it yesterday http://blog.getprismatic.com/blog/2013/1/14/bringing-functional-to-the-frontend-clojure-clojurescript-for-the-web
17:35	yedi	scottj: I saw it
17:35	TimMc	gtrak: lazybot is snubbing clourebot these days
17:35	yedi	and wow thanks for remembering and linking
17:35	scottj	hmm, the url says 1-14 but the article says 1-17, who knows
17:35	yedi	i asked about prismatic and clojurescript on separate occasions!
17:36	yedi	scottj: when I saw the title of the article, I was hoping for something more than a new templating library for cljs
17:36	antoineB	does clojure compiler support inlining functions?
17:36	hiredman	yes
17:36	hiredman	,(doc definline)
17:36	clojurebot	"([name & decl]); Experimental - like defmacro, except defines a named function whose body is the expansion, calls to which may be expanded inline as if it were a macro. Cannot be used with variadic (&) args."
17:37	yedi	something along the lines of using clojures powerful abstractions for frontend dev
17:37	yedi	but i guess hiccup-like templating fits that description
17:38	hiredman	in some cases the compiler uses inlining of + together with an intrinsic for the static the method (Numbers/add) that it inlines to to emit a jvm iadd or ladd instead of a clojure function or java method call
17:45	antoineB	hiredman: in the code of definline i don't understand the "~(apply (eval (list `fn args expr)) args)" part
17:46	akhudek	I was somewhat disappointed to see another templating library when clojure/clojurescript already has several. The justification seems to be "because it fits our style better" rather than any more interesting technical motivation.
17:49	frozenlock	ohpauleez: Is there a way to get a hold of the things returned from the server, or is it really just `fetch'? Anything in fetch just returns nil.
17:51	TimMc	akhudek: Which?
17:52	scottj	akhudek: in the blog and readme the main reason they give is improved performance, they claim ~3-4x
17:52	TimMc	laser?
17:52	scottj	TimMc: I think he's talking about https://github.com/prismatic/dommy
17:55	antoineB	dommy don't support namespace (.createElementNS) used for svg, that's a bad point for me
17:55	gtrak	dommy is like 100 lines
17:56	antoineB	but can be easily change by a dynamic var
17:57	akhudek	scottj: saw that, but they don't compare against domina or enfocus.
17:57	scottj	akhudek: yeah, and I wonder how fast the jquery technique they used is compared to other js templating options
18:06	ohpauleez	frozenlock: I'm not sure I understand the question, but whatever the server function returns, will get passed back to the client
18:07	ohpauleez	If the function returns nil, the client will see nil. If the server function returns a map, the map gets returned. The only limit is: it has to be serializable with (pr-str ...)
18:07	frozenlock	ohpauleez: In fetch, doing (fm/letrem [a (adder 3 4)] a) will return nil.
18:08	frozenlock	However (fm/letrem [a (adder 3 4)] (print a)) will print a
18:08	ohpauleez	frozenlock: Yes, remotes can only call their bodies in a callback - they're non-blocking
18:09	ohpauleez	so the remote blocks on the client side will always return nil, but their bodies will run when the remote is satisfied (or an error occurs)
18:09	frozenlock	Ok, I just have to stuck this into my mind and be surprised it happens :)
18:10	frozenlock	*stop being surprised when it happens
18:28	brainproxy	weavejester: concerning reload middleware.. for the heck of it, I tried wrapping wrap-reload so that if it throws an error during a reload I could go to a nice-looking 503 page
18:29	brainproxy	but what I found was that doesn't work -- if there is, for example, a syntax error, then my catch statement/s will run, but the client always gets a 500 response w/ no body
18:30	brainproxy	i.e. not whatever would otherwise be returned by the return of catch
18:37	bosie	https://www.refheap.com/paste/c4ca927d6d96ffb4f716a54f3 could someone please tell me why this is what happens?
18:39	muhoo	ok i'm confused. why would a java class import perfectly well in the repl, but blow up spectacularly in "lein check"?
18:40	muhoo	specifically https://www.refheap.com/paste/8762 , and this is with RC2
18:41	muhoo	is there something radically different about what lein check does to compile namespaces, versus what the repl does?
18:42	gtrak	interesting that it's a different class than what you're importing, sounds like a problem in your classpath, maybe duplicate deps?
18:42	technomancy	muhoo: the repl pulls in nrepl and clj-http and friends in order to function
18:42	chronno	bosie: don't use fn as the name of your first parameter
18:42	bosie	chronno: right but i am not sure why this error would happen
18:43	chronno	bosie: third line
18:43	gtrak	bosie: you're calling inc instead of creating a function
18:43	chronno	you are appplying inc there
18:43	muhoo	technomancy: is there some way to coax out a lein deps :tree of what the repl would consider its tree versus what lein check would?
18:44	chronno	bosie: with two paremeters, an empty vector and the return value of the let
18:44	muhoo	apparently there's some missing dep, or, more likely, a conflict
18:44	bosie	chronno: oh true
18:44	bosie	is there a way to get better error/exception messages?
18:44	muhoo	i bet either nrepl or clj-http is pulling in a different version of guano than what is specified in the project
18:44	technomancy	muhoo: that's still an open issue unfortunately: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/issues/520
18:45	technomancy	haven't thought through a good solution
18:45	gtrak	bosie: it's an obvious error, how would you detect such a thing?
18:45	bosie	gtrak: pardon?
18:45	gtrak	how would you automate detection of such a thing?
18:45	muhoo	huh, i guess i have a talent for something: running up against open issues. oh well. i'll figure something out
18:45	dakrone	muhoo: clj-http doesn't pull in guano at all
18:45	technomancy	wait, is there actually a lib called guano?
18:46	bosie	gtrak: automate? it gives the wrong line number
18:46	muhoo	it's a google thing, uh,
18:46	bosie	gtrak: if anything, giving the wrong line number is a bug
18:46	muhoo	guava, not guano. it coats my life with guano though.
18:46	technomancy	hahaha
18:46	gtrak	bosie: the line number makes sense
18:46	gtrak	if you look at AFn
18:46	gtrak	it's not a syntax error, it's a semantics error
18:46	bosie	gtrak: the line number does not make sense. this is like revealing the C code line number for a ruby exception
18:47	technomancy	sounds like an april fools project announcement; forking guava -> guano
18:47	gtrak	you don't get it, it did what you told it to, it has no way to interpret what you meant to do
18:47	bosie	gtrak: apparently i don't
18:48	bosie	gtrak: i would have expected to see line 3 here
18:48	gtrak	core$inc doesn't accept two args, that's pretty clear what it's trying to do. It doesn't clean up the jvm classname munging for you, granted.
18:49	bosie	gtrak: i overlooked line 3 and thought the error is in line 8
18:49	muhoo	cljs pulls in this guan[oa]
18:49	technomancy	muhoo: for now you can just toss [org.clojure/tools.nrepl "0.2.1"] and [clojure-complete "0.2.2"] into project.clj
18:49	technomancy	if you want to get a deps tree
18:50	bosie	gtrak: i didn't think i could actually override fn
18:50	muhoo	technomancy: cool, thanks. i'm going to try explicitly calling out guan[oa] and see if that helps
18:50	gtrak	bosie: yea, fn's not a special form
18:50	bosie	gtrak: right
18:50	technomancy	muhoo: oh, also [org.thnetos/cd-client "0.3.6"]
18:50	gtrak	it's a runtime error by nature, since it compiles fine
18:51	muhoo	web stuff seems to involve a lot of tangled dependencies these days, specifically since lein itself wants web-related stuff in order to work (clj-http in particular)
18:52	muhoo	technomancy: problem worked-around: [com.google.guava/guava "13.0.1"] and everything works :-/
18:52	technomancy	muhoo: another option is to use a raw repl instead of nrepl
18:52	bosie	gtrak: is there a way to get better line number parsing?
18:52	technomancy	`rlwrap lein trampoline run -m clojure.main/repl`
18:52	muhoo	true, but i'd be lost without nrepl.el :-)
18:53	technomancy	completely avoids the implicit dependencies
18:53	muhoo	i was using the raw repl on an embedded platform for a while though, worked well.
18:53	gtrak	bosie: in this case, I'm afraid not. However, if the source is loaded from a file instead of eval'd at the repl, you can see the line number farther down the stacktrace.
18:53	technomancy	I should add a faq for that or something
18:54	muhoo	it'd be helpful for debugging these strange dependency tangles, yes.
18:54	bosie	gtrak: thank you
18:55	gtrak	bosie: you'll see the line number of the call at that stack frame at the time of error, but the actual exception information is pointing to the appropriate place
18:55	bosie	gtrak: right
18:55	technomancy	anybody got any last-minute issues to report on leiningen 2.0.0-rc2?
18:56	Raynes	technomancy: It isn't pink.
18:56	muhoo	so far, rc2 seems pretty damn solid
18:56	bosie	gtrak: the only thing is, its pointing to the very very last line and i can't remember a language doing that. i also can't understand how exactly this is useful information in a debugging scenario. but maybe thats my inexperience speaking
18:56	Raynes	technomancy: http://code.google.com/p/clementine-player/issues/detail?id=219
18:56	frozenlock	I have a bunch of datetime objects on a server that I want to transfert to a cljs app. Perfomance-wise, should I convert them to string, or to millis?
18:57	technomancy	Raynes: that might need to get pushed back to 3.0
18:57	bbloom	frozenlock: shouldn't be too hard to try it and figure it out
18:57	bbloom	frozenlock: but it's probably irrelevant: use an iso8601 string
18:57	gtrak	bosie: reading JVM stacktraces is kind of a hassle, agreed..
18:58	gtrak	I think this is the state of the art: https://github.com/mmcgrana/clj-stacktrace
18:59	bosie	let me give that a try
18:59	Raynes	(pst *e)
19:00	muhoo	Raynes: wtf, are bronies trolling clementine's bugtracker or something?
19:00	Raynes	muhoo: This was ages ago. And IIRC, he actually fixed it and made it so you can make it pink.
19:04	bosie	gtrak: still working on it
19:10	technomancy	interesting thoughts re: "full-stack is easier": http://words.steveklabnik.com/rails-has-two-default-stacks
19:11	bosie	gtrak: https://www.refheap.com/paste/8765 mind sharing your wisdom for what i do wrong, again? ;)
19:11	Raynes	callen: It's Time by Imagine Dragons.
19:12	gtrak	bosie: firstly, the user profile doesn't go into project.clj, but into ~/.lein/profiles.clj
19:13	bosie	gtrak: thanks
19:13	tomoj	s/defmethod/defnmethod/
19:13	gtrak	bosie: looks like you no longer need to explicitly use/require after that
19:13	tomoj	guess it's fairly easy to write a pointfree defmethod, but what to call it? :)
19:14	bbloom	tomoj: i think clojure.pprint does that and calls it use-method
19:16	bosie	gtrak: hm. doesn't seem to work for me
19:16	gtrak	hrm, not sure, then
19:17	Raynes	muhoo: There is a clementine setting that turns all album art into kitten pictures.
19:17	bosie	the reason why i use require: https://github.com/mmcgrana/clj-stacktrace/issues/15
19:17	xeqi	technomancy: I'm all for a default starting stack, and luminus seem ok for that
19:17	gtrak	bosie: I think that's irrelevant
19:17	muhoo	Raynes: i'll have to check this out, thanks.
19:18	gtrak	looks like he's using it a different way entirely
19:18	technomancy	xeqi: yeah, it just challenges the whole "everything's easy with a full-stack framework"
19:18	technomancy	there's always going to be swapping out happening
19:18	muhoo	Raynes: do you publish your playlist somewhere, like on one of those social music services?
19:18	xeqi	heh, I came for the prime stack side
19:18	gtrak	though, isn't new a special form?
19:18	xeqi	*from
19:19	technomancy	xeqi: also the article is a bit silly in slapping all those orthogonal choices together; as if a preference for Postgres makes you more likely to use Haml
19:19	xeqi	though luminous does have weird choices for options, +bootstrap?
19:19	technomancy	but whatever; Clojure people understand that
19:19	Raynes	muhoo: I don't have playlists as I tend to listen to entire albums at a time (which are playlists, but just playlists of a single album on spotify where they should be public), but I scrobble everything I listen to to last.fm.
19:19	Raynes	muhoo: https://last.fm/user/RaynesFM
19:20	seangrove	Hrm, I think I really need to get the CA-as-a-github-service sideproject going
19:20	muhoo	Raynes: cool, thanks, you seem to be into all kinds of stuff i've never heard before
19:20	technomancy	are there any music players whose random shuffle is smart enough to only queue christmas music during december?
19:20	xeqi	technomancy: heh, yet surprisingly accurate from rails people I know
19:21	bosie	gtrak: was that directed at me?
19:21	gtrak	bosie: yea, I question his usage of 'new'
19:21	hiredman	technomancy: I have an itunes smart playlist constructed from searching for "Christmas" and a few other terms, and my regular playlist is "all the music except what is on my christmas playlist"
19:22	hiredman	seangrove: it's been done
19:22	muhoo	technomancy: they're called "shopping malls"
19:22	seangrove	hiredman: Oh?
19:22	hiredman	seangrove: some one just anounced it
19:22	bosie	gtrak: i see what you mean
19:22	technomancy	hiredman: I don't know if matching on terms would be enough
19:22	Raynes	muhoo: You'll note that MCR is my most listened to band by a fairly wide margin.
19:22	technomancy	unless you had copiously tagged with genre, etc
19:22	seangrove	hiredman: Even better, I didn't have to lift a finger for it
19:22	hiredman	seangrove: http://www.clahub.com/
19:22	bosie	gtrak: swapped it out with just an 'n'
19:22	hiredman	technomancy: works for me
19:23	bosie	gtrak: and that ha the exact same effect
19:23	Raynes	muhoo: The interesting bit is that I haven't listened to them often in a while, I just listened to them so much that even in a short amount of time it eclipsed everything else.
19:23	gtrak	hmm, no idea then, I don't use it myself
19:23	hiredman	technomancy: actually I match 11 terms
19:23	bosie	gtrak: new is a special form http://clojure.org/java_interop#new
19:23	hiredman	it different fields (name, category, album, etc)
19:24	technomancy	hiredman: do you have a lot of metadata filled out typically?
19:24	hiredman	technomancy: dunno, what is a lot?
19:24	hiredman	most at least have album info at least
19:24	technomancy	categories, tags, genre I guess
19:25	muhoo	Raynes: i have bands like that too. but i did most of my intense/obsessive music listening in the pre-scrobbling era.
19:25	hiredman	anyway, I am looking forward to a music player that just exposes a sql interface where playlists are views
19:27	gtrak	hiredman: sparql? http://techbase.kde.org/Development/Tutorials/Metadata/Nepomuk/QueryService
19:27	muhoo	hiredman: sounds like a clj project waiting to happen
19:27	technomancy	mpd has a database; I wonder what they use
19:27	muhoo	technomancy: sqlite last i checked
19:28	muhoo	yep libsqlite3-0 (>= 3.5.9
19:28	technomancy	cool
19:28	scottj	http://nhrx.org/mpdc/ lets you do pretty nice queries on mpd
19:29	muhoo	remember when every sample-code example project for every language and tool was making an mp3 player?
19:29	bosie	technomancy: may i bother you about a clj-stacktrace lein2 question?
19:29	muhoo	mp3 library, actually, not player
19:29	hiredman	scottj: neat
19:30	xeqi	muhoo: instead of a blog?
19:30	technomancy	bosie: sure
19:30	muhoo	xeqi: yep, blogs was a couple years later
19:30	xeqi	heh, didn't mean to put a ? on the end of that
19:30	technomancy	scottj: looks like fun
19:32	bosie	technomancy: https://www.refheap.com/paste/4ea781d471f04a45dc50e5d3b
19:32	hiredman	technomancy: and then enrique iglesias
19:32	gtrak	bosie: it looks like it's working
19:32	gtrak	notice: user/eval872
19:32	xeqi	technomancy, yogthos: https://www.refheap.com/paste/8767 wow thats alot of poms and a -SNAPSHOT to download
19:32	technomancy	bosie: oh yeah, that's reply unfortunately
19:33	bosie	gtrak: hm. i thought it would look like on the github readme page ;)
19:33	technomancy	bosie: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/issues/799
19:33	technomancy	bosie: there's probably a nasty alter-var-root hack that could be used to force it on reply; haven't looked into it myself since I use nrepl.el
19:34	bosie	i see
19:34	yogthos	xeqi: heh I don't even know where thneed is getting linked from
19:34	technomancy	thneed =(
19:34	technomancy	I thought that was fixed
19:35	xeqi	technomancy: this is with RC2 for ref
19:35	technomancy	was it leinjacker?
19:35	yogthos	at least it's only grabbing the latest jar :)
19:36	xeqi	gotta run, but I'll check later
19:36	xeqi	was wondering what sort of tests the generator built
19:37	xeqi	since I didn't see them much in the docs
19:41	bosie	thanks technomancy and gtrak
19:57	bizarrefish	Hi, all
20:03	bizarrefish	I'm playing with some web stuff, and am trying to implement a fingerprinting mechanism. I have next to no experience with multithreading/refs in clojure, and I'm not convinced that this code is safe: http://pastie.org/5722707 . Could someone take a look, and tell me what they think
20:04	bizarrefish	Also, is there a more..idiomatic way to include a big expensive operation in a ref-alter than using a lazy-seq?
20:05	amalloy	bizarrefish: instead of a lazy-seq of one element, you're looking for ##(doc delay)
20:05	lazybot	⇒ "Macro ([& body]); Takes a body of expressions and yields a Delay object that will invoke the body only the first time it is forced (with force or deref/@), and will cache the result and return it on all subsequent force calls. See also - realized?"
20:05	bizarrefish	Ahh, I didn't know about that :)
20:05	amalloy	your multithreading is safe but awkward
20:06	amalloy	well, maybe not. my alternative doesn't come out much better
20:07	bizarrefish	amalloy: Looks to me like the only other way of doing it which might be cleaner is by moving the if into the fn
20:08	yogthos	wouldn't swap be better (def fingerprints (atom {})) (swap! fingerprints #(if-not (contains % uri) (first (compute-fingerprint body))))
20:08	yogthos	err missed assoc there, but you get the idea
20:09	bizarrefish	Ahh, the atom thing
20:09	bizarrefish	I'm still trying to get my head around the differece
20:10	yogthos	here https://www.refheap.com/paste/8768
20:11	yogthos	if you don't need it to be coordinated atom is better
20:11	bizarrefish	It sure looks like a better solution
20:12	bizarrefish	By coordinated, I take it you mean jumping around between threads, like a producer/consumer kind of situation.
20:12	yogthos	it would still be safe to use an atom there
20:13	yogthos	but if you have transactions, then you want a ref
20:13	amalloy	yogthos: your function sets fingerprints to nil pretty often
20:13	yogthos	oh right :)
20:13	bizarrefish	hehe
20:13	bizarrefish	not so good
20:13	bizarrefish	But thanks dudes, I see what you're saying.
20:14	yogthos	hehe
20:14	yogthos	I'm useless without the repl :P
20:14	bizarrefish	What's a good way to actually integrate the repl into the devving process?
20:14	yogthos	what do you use for the editor?
20:15	bizarrefish	I've been learning noir and such by making a website for my mate. I've generally been using gedit/nano/whatever's available, and "lein run". Sometimes "lein repl", and starting the server so I can poke stuff from there.
20:15	bizarrefish	Feels like I might be missing a trick
20:16	yogthos	yeah emacs or eclipse is much nicer for clojure
20:16	yogthos	if you're comfortable with emacs, it's probably the way to go as most people use it, but eclipse with ccw is very effective too http://code.google.com/p/counterclockwise/
20:16	yogthos	the other big thing you get is structural editing
20:16	bizarrefish	I think I tried the eclipse one a while ago. My machine wasn't fast enough to make it usable, iirc :P
20:17	yogthos	hehe
20:17	yogthos	if you get the base eclipse without all the crap addons it's not too bad
20:17	yogthos	and ccw has had some speed issues in the past, it's much better now
20:17	yogthos	but emacs and paredit is very nice as well, and not nearly as much of a hog
20:17	bizarrefish	I'm comfortable with a lot of stuff in the same vein as emacs, I was fooling with emacs the other day and it seems I could quite easily get used to it
20:18	yogthos	the big advantage is that you can select code by expression, and move expressions around using shortcuts
20:18	yogthos	it's like playing with lego blocks ;)
20:18	mattmoss	And once you learn M-x brew-coffee, everything is awesome.
20:18	yogthos	and if you're in a particular expression, you can just send it to the repl to evaluate
20:18	yogthos	and it will run it in the context of what's already running
20:18	bizarrefish	It breaks my heart to say things like this, but: "my current machine could probably cope just fine with everything eclipse has to throw at it"
20:19	bizarrefish	I'll give it another go...after emacs
20:19	yogthos	:)
20:19	bizarrefish	yogthos: So, it's just like the elisp usage
20:19	yogthos	bizarrefish: precisely
20:20	yogthos	it makes it a lot easier to tell if your stuff works right, because you can just test functions as you write them
20:20	yogthos	make something see it work, move to the next one
20:20	yogthos	you never build up a bunch of code and then hope it all works together :)
20:20	bizarrefish	It feels like with a homoiconic language like clojure, I should be able to do a certain amount of source editing programmatically.
20:20	bizarrefish	Would emacs allow me to say, 'walk' through my source code with an fn?
20:21	yogthos	emacs can do a lot of that :)
20:21	yogthos	you can do that with macros too right from your code :)
20:21	bizarrefish	And maintain indentation? :O
20:21	craigbro	record macros
20:21	yogthos	clojure has a nice pprint too, which can format code
20:21	zackzackzack	Let's say that I want to start up a rexster server alongside ring, https://github.com/tinkerpop/rexster
20:22	yogthos	and afk here
20:22	craigbro	complex string replaces
20:22	craigbro	docstring and fn param list reminders when you cursor over fns
20:22	craigbro	lookup docs at point
20:22	craigbro	send some code to your repla and get the result
20:22	zackzackzack	What would the best way to do that? Currently, I'm wrapping rexster inside of a Thread and starting that up independently but ever once in a while the rexster server will stop responding.
20:23	craigbro	all that, and rainbow colored parenthesis
20:23	amalloy	ugh, rainbow parens
20:24	craigbro	zackzackzack if rexster is stopping responding, I would say, you should put a try around the call that starts it up to catch any excpetions, and check your logs
20:24	bizarrefish	Righto, i'm sold on that :) I just had a play with pprint(another thing I didn't know was there), and it's pretty cool.
20:24	craigbro	if it's locking up, it prolly has nothing to do with ring
20:24	amalloy	everyone is entitled to their own emacs setup, of course, but i discourage rainbow parens for someone who isn't already used to them; all they do is make you focus on the parens, when you should be focusing on indentation and ignoring parens
20:25	technomancy	(inc amalloy)
20:25	lazybot	⇒ 42
20:25	ibdknox	I think that is highly subjective
20:27	bizarrefish	Also, just like there is scriptjure to generate javascript, and lithium to generate machine code, is there anything which would generate something around the C kind of level? Seems like if you could write small, high performance programs in clojure that would be pretty sweet.
20:27	zackzackzack	craigbro: I wonder, if errors are happening inside of a started Thread in clojure, then are they thrown to the main thread?
20:28	amalloy	i'm nothing if not subjective
20:28	bizarrefish	I imagine it would be backed by gcc and shared objects in implementation
20:29	craigbro	zackzackzack: I wouldn't count on it, there could be handlers anywhere in the call chain on that thread, and I would need more details, like your code, to answer more usefully
20:29	bizarrefish	(defcprogram (:int myfunc [:int a :int b] (+ a b))))
20:31	bizarrefish	Would also be sweet if you could marshal back and forth between clojure and those programs, transparently./
20:31	hiredman	I really liked rainbox parens, but I had to turn them off because they were really slow for large clojure files (like core.clj)
20:32	technomancy	hiredman: that was before you started with paredit though, right?
20:32	hiredman	that was a few years ago, and I don't really remember what rainbox parens were like
20:32	zackzackzack	craigbro: Good to know then. It all prints to stdout no matter the thread, but I'm just not sure about the errors. I haven't seen any errors on stdout yet, but it still hangs every once in a while.
20:32	hiredman	technomancy: no, that was with paredit
20:32	ibdknox	lol
20:32	ibdknox	what value is there in attacking preference?
20:33	technomancy	I feel like hiredman can take it
20:34	ibdknox	haha
20:34	hiredman	untrue, delicate flower, etc
20:34	technomancy	but seriously, encouraging newbies to pay more attention to parens can be unhelpful.
20:34	ibdknox	I would argue it does the opposite
20:35	tpope	dumb put popular preferences also have a way of sneaking into the defaults
20:35	ibdknox	though again, I imagine that is very dependent on the person
20:35	amalloy	i used rainbow parens and paredit mode too. had the same problems with large files
20:35	technomancy	since they're already likely to be obsessing about parens more than they should be; they need to realize that the parens can just blend into the background and cause zero cognitive load
20:35	ibdknox	until you need to see the scope of something
20:36	craigbro	I'm quite capable of perceiving multiple colors without losing my shit
20:36	hiredman	you may think that...
20:36	ibdknox	heh
20:36	ibdknox	we did several studies on highlighting at MSFT
20:36	amalloy	clojurebot: craigbro is quite capable of perceiving multiple colors without losing his shit
20:37	technomancy	I'll grant it might be helpful if you don't have paredit turned on
20:37	ibdknox	trust me, there's no conclusive thing you can say here
20:37	craigbro	hehe
20:37	amalloy	hiredman: noooo, why isn't he learning my factoid?
20:37	technomancy	but "not using paredit" counts as "doing work in your head you could be offloading to the computer"
20:37	hiredman	clojurebot: ping?
20:37	bizarrefish	Righto, it's my bedtime. Gotta goo. Thanks for the help doods :)
20:38	craigbro	you know, I think in all my years of lisp hacking, I have used paredit for a month
20:38	craigbro	I like it, and I don't think I even know when rainbow parens are on
20:39	craigbro	I find paredit annoying at times, but learn to turn it off so I can fix it's confusion and then turn it back on
20:39	hiredman	,(+ 1 2)
20:39	clojurebot	3
20:39	craigbro	but I went years without them, and I can't really say it makes as much difference to me
20:39	amalloy	craigbro: s/it's/my?
20:40	craigbro	amalloy: no, paredit shits the bed sometimes when using []s and cuttin' and pastering
20:41	craigbro	BTW< here is a screenshot of my emacs:
20:41	craigbro	http://raz.z0r.de/266
20:41	craigbro	to prove I can deal with colors
20:41	amalloy	if you cut and paste misbalanced expressions, yes
20:41	craigbro	(require 'bubble-bobble)
20:41	amalloy	epilepsy warning on that last link
20:41	craigbro	amalloy and sometimes I want to, cause I want just the last three args...
20:41	technomancy	that just means you're using non-paredit-aware operations
20:41	craigbro	yup
20:42	craigbro	tho the [] confusion is not me being non paredit
20:42	technomancy	I think that's due to an old version of paredit
20:42	craigbro	sweet, I'll upgradinate
20:44	xeqi	technomancy, yogthos\|away: thneed is coming from lein-jacker 0.2.0 in the luminus/lein-template 0.2.9 pom. If you update to lein-jacker 0.4.0 it'll stop
20:44	amalloy	tbh i'm not sure how "the last three args" could ever cause you to wind up copy/pasting something unbalanced. surely you just type C-M-k three times, or C-3 C-M-k?
20:44	xeqi	though I'm surprised templates need dependencies
20:45	technomancy	clojurebot: thneed is coming from an old version of lein-jacker
20:45	clojurebot	c'est bon!
20:45	technomancy	I always forget
20:45	craigbro	amalloy, or doing what my emacs brain has done for the last decade, and C-k...
20:45	amalloy	C-k is bound to something sensible in paredit also
20:45	technomancy	it's C-w that will mess you up
20:45	amalloy	(and C-M-k doesn't come from paredit; emacs has had it built in for ages)
20:46	xeqi	technomancy: yeah, for alot of people it'll be brought in even further up a chain by something like and old version of lein-ring
20:46	technomancy	(define-key 'paredit-mode-map (kbd "C-w") (lambda () (message "oh no you don't")))
20:46	amalloy	technomancy: can i get a (keyboard-quit) in there so emacs looks mad at me?
20:46	technomancy	oh, also (interactively) in there
20:47	xeqi	yogthos\|away: Y luminus NO HAVE tags in github?
20:47	technomancy	amalloy: (message "（╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻"))
20:48	mattmoss	Is one preferable? (Double. "x") vs. (double (read-string "x")) ?
20:49	hiredman	Double/parseDouble
20:49	ohpauleez	mattmoss: You might just want to do parseDouble
20:50	ohpauleez	damnit hiredman, c'mon - I was totally fielding that one haha
20:50	mattmoss	lolz
20:50	technomancy	hiredman: at least with Integer the constructor is preferable since it's polymorphic
20:50	technomancy	not sure if Double is the same
20:51	hiredman	technomancy: no, if you are parsing you want parsing
20:51	amalloy	BigDecimal's constructor is polymorphic, which only leads to sadness
20:52	amalloy	alas, its static valueOf method is also polymorphic, but with only the wrong overloads intstead of the right ones
20:54	mattmoss	Thanks all.
20:54	amalloy	i agree with hiredman, though: if you know you have a string, Long/parseLong is definitely preferable to using the constructor
20:55	craigbro	how does the poymorphic constructor make sad?
20:57	amalloy	&(java.math.BigDecimal. 0.33333333333333333333333333333)
20:57	lazybot	⇒ 0.333333333333333314829616256247390992939472198486328125M
20:57	amalloy	&(java.math.BigDecimal. "0.33333333333333333333333333333")
20:57	lazybot	⇒ 0.33333333333333333333333333333M
20:58	mattmoss	&(let [foo Double/parseDouble] (foo "3"))
20:58	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to find static field: parseDouble in class java.lang.Double
20:58	amalloy	if you make a bigdec out of a double, you've already lost
20:58	mattmoss	Is there a way to get a "pointer" to a static class method?
20:58	amalloy	lambdas, baby
20:58	amalloy	#(Double/parseDouble %)
20:58	mattmoss	Man...
20:59	mattmoss	Why does my brain stop working after 5pm?
21:00	ChongLi	blood sugar
21:00	mattmoss	~brain
21:00	clojurebot	brain dump is http://clj.thelastcitadel.com/clojurebot
21:01	mattmoss	That's a blank page, clojurebot.
21:03	craigbro	amalloy: ah, thanks
21:05	craigbro	what is current fave neo4j lib/wrapper?
21:08	bbloom	i need to write a library that provides a little database engine in a map
21:09	bbloom	i find myself regularly making maps that are essentially just indexes and reverse indexes
21:09	bbloom	and then i have to write this funny looking atom swap! functions to insert or remove from both indexes
21:09	hiredman	bbloom: https://github.com/danlarkin/subrosa/blob/master/src/subrosa/database.clj
21:09	hiredman	bbloom: or look at clojure.set
21:09	craigbro	bbloom: https://github.com/threatgrid/pldb
21:09	craigbro	use core.logic 8)
21:09	bbloom	heh, i'm glad i asked :-P
21:10	hiredman	http://richhickey.github.com/clojure/clojure.set-api.html#clojure.set/index http://richhickey.github.com/clojure/clojure.set-api.html#clojure.set/project etc
21:10	lazybot	Nooooo, that's so out of date! Please see instead http://clojure.github.com/clojure/clojure.set-api.html#clojure.set/project and try to stop linking to rich's repo.
21:11	hiredman	I ran in to https://gist.github.com/3181018 today too
21:11	hiredman	(speaking of core.logic and databases)
21:12	ohpauleez	yeah, I saw that last week or so
21:12	ohpauleez	definitely a cool idea
21:12	craigbro	oh wow
21:13	bbloom	im gonna hand roll this case b/c i have 1 insertion path and 2 deletion paths & the asymmetry is subtle :-/
21:13	dnolen	neat
21:33	yogthos	xeqi: didn't seem like it was necessary yet :)
21:34	yogthos	xeqi: there's much of value in using the older versions of the template
21:38	TimMc	Hmm, how do I build Leiningen from checkout so I can test out modifications?
21:40	TimMc	CONTRIBUTING.md seems to indicate that I should be able to simply run the bin/lein in the checkout, but that fails.
21:52	technomancy	TimMc: did you do `lein1 install` inside leiningen-core?
21:53	xeqi	yogthos: ah, I was gonna use it to look at what made up the 0.2.9 release. if master is the development branch it requires going back through history to find that (and hope you can tell if releases wer just before or after a version bump)
21:54	yogthos	xeqi: yeah it makes archeology a bit tricky :)
21:54	xeqi	thats a good word there
21:54	yogthos	xeqi: the only major change recently was to use ring server and get rid of run-jetty, otherwise I've been mainly adding new options
21:56	TimMc	technomancy: Hmm, I think I must have been in the project root.
21:56	TimMc	Read-o.
22:04	TimMc	technomancy: I'd like to do some cleanup in leiningen/new/templates.clj -- aside from deprecation and renaming of defns, can this piggyback on existing work in that ns?
22:10	hadronzoo	I'd like to use EDN for serialization from within ClojureScript. Do I have to use shaunxcode/jsedn, or is there an existing ClojureScript package?
22:13	xeqi	hadronzoo: pr-str ?
22:13	xeqi	as in the function
22:13	hadronzoo	xeqi: How would one deserialize from within ClojureScript?
22:14	xeqi	cljs.reader/read-string
22:14	xeqi	at least thats what fetch uses
22:14	xeqi	https://github.com/ibdknox/fetch/blob/master/src/fetch/remotes.cljs
22:14	hadronzoo	xeqi: Wow, that's much simpler than I was expecting. Thank you.
22:15	TimMc	EDN is just a fancy name for Clojure (de)serialization.
22:15	TimMc	I don't know why it exists.
22:16	TimMc	Something to do with Datomic, I guess?
22:16	hadronzoo	TimMc: I suppose it makes sense to document the format so other languages can consume Clojure services
22:26	TimMc	$latest jkkramer/loom
22:26	lazybot	[jkkramer/loom "0.2.0"] -- https://clojars.org/jkkramer/loom
22:35	seangrove	$latest shoreleave-browser
22:35	lazybot	No project by this name exists on clojars.
23:16	babyclj	hi guys, thought I need someone here to "pimp" my code -- very newbie here :-)
23:16	babyclj	src is here https://github.com/seymores/twitter-stats/blob/master/src/twitter_stats/core.clj
23:17	akhudek	one thing you can do is try running kibit on it https://github.com/jonase/kibit/
23:18	technomancy	TimMc: not sure which existing work you're referring to, but I'm planning on cutting a release in a matter of days, so probably best not to move anything unless it's private
23:19	TimMc	I figured it was either a really bad or really good time to rename stuff.
23:19	technomancy	heh
23:19	akhudek	babyclj: also, you want to use if for things that return things and when for mutable things that do not return values
23:19	TimMc	I was just getting really annoyed at the name of leiningen.new.templates/sanitize
23:19	technomancy	babyclj: could we maybe find another metaphor that doesn't mean taking a cut of your code's sex work earnings in exchange for protection?
23:19	akhudek	or rather, when is for things with side effects
23:19	technomancy	kthx
23:20	babyclj	lol
23:20	babyclj	akhudek: hmm yes
23:20	babyclj	ah kibit looks awesome
23:20	technomancy	TimMc: pretty sure there are extant templates that would break from that; probably not the right timing
23:21	TimMc	When would the right timing be? :-)
23:23	technomancy	we could move it and put a (def ^{:doc "..."} sanitize newname) alias in its place
23:24	technomancy	but we can't get rid of sanitize until 3.0
23:24	technomancy	on the bright side, I have concrete plans for 3.0 happening sooner than the 1->2 gap
23:24	TimMc	Nice.
23:28	xumingmingv	anyone have preety emacs color theme to recommand? I know color-theme-soloarized, but it has issue supporting chinese gbk files.
23:29	TimMc	hyPiRion: This is executable "normal" Clojure that should be compilable into swearjure: https://www.refheap.com/paste/8777
23:32	infiniteone	anyone using nrepl and emacs ????
23:33	infiniteone	if so i have a question ???
23:33	lazybot	infiniteone: How could that be wrong?
23:33	infiniteone	not wrong
23:34	infiniteone	looking for a best method to deal with the stack trace which pops up
23:35	infiniteone	Figured maybe someone in the clojure community had a way of dealing with this
23:36	TimMc	A bunch of people use Emacs and nREPL. (I don't.) What's the behavior that is problematic?
23:37	xumingmingv	what will lazybot answer a question even if you didnt ask him?
23:38	infiniteone	when I get a error I get a stack trace which opens another buffer and would like my cursor to automatically jump to the stack trace so that I can easily q quit the buffer
23:39	infiniteone	something I would get in slime, but my slime clojure-jack-in is broken :-(
23:40	xumingmingv	lazybot: what will you answer a question even if you didnt ask him?
23:40	lazybot	It's AWWWW RIGHT!
23:40	xumingmingv	lazybot: what will you answer a question even if I didnt ask you?
23:40	lazybot	It's AWWWW RIGHT!
23:41	xumingmingv	lazybot: ok, you are brilliant
23:48	xeqi	infiniteone: it used to do that and people requested it stop. I think theres some customization that can be done to make it come back but I haven't tried to find it
23:48	xeqi	https://github.com/kingtim/nrepl.el/issues/110
23:50	ivan	infiniteone: you can just make that buffer not appear