#clojure – 2013-01-03

2013-01-03

00:00	technomancy	postgres 9.1 with c.j.j 0.2.1
00:00	technomancy	app is here: https://github.com/heroku/buildkits/blob/master/project.clj
00:00	tufflax	Are there any clojure/conj 2012 videos out? I feel like watching some :P
00:06	ihodes	technomancy: hah, using jdbc:postgresql:database-name works…except that it says that a relation i know exists does not exist.
00:06	ihodes	yeah this is wild. huh.
00:19	ihodes	okay
00:19	ihodes	i figured it out
00:19	ihodes	needed the right combinations of versions
00:19	ihodes	and for some reason, can't connect to one of my DBs. not sure yet why.
00:27	Sgeo	technomancy, you know what keeps getting me
00:27	Sgeo	The [ thing
00:27	Sgeo	There's no place where you have to use [ or anything, but stylistically it's suggested
00:27	Sgeo	But I'm still a bit iffy on where it's good style
00:28	Sgeo	[] is (almost. macros can detect the difference if they wish) the same as (), so there's no enforcement of whatever Racket style is
00:29	technomancy	Sgeo: do you see it much in code you read
00:29	technomancy	?
00:29	Sgeo	Hm? Yeah, Racket examples are always using []
00:29	Sgeo	Like:
00:29	Sgeo	(let ([a 1] [b 2]) (+ a b)) might be an example
00:30	Sgeo	That's completely equivalent to (let ((a 1) (b 2)) (+ a b))
00:30	technomancy	IIRC allowing [] to be interchangable with () is part of RNRS, right?
00:30	technomancy	but from what I gather it's not that common in other schemes?
00:30	Sgeo	I'm under the impression that it is Racket specific
00:31	Sgeo	I could be wrong, I guess
00:31	Sgeo	Oh, r6rs does have [] interchangable
00:31	Sgeo	But r6rs is somewhat widely disliked
00:31	technomancy	mostly for pushing racketisms on the wider scheme community from what I gather
00:32	technomancy	which is understandable; the renaming was probably the only way to keep them from blows
00:33	Sgeo	Huh, wasn't aware of that
00:33	Sgeo	Of pushing Racketisms on the community
00:33	technomancy	r6rs had just been ratified when I was playing with implementing scheme
00:34	technomancy	from an implementor's perspective it was annoying; more junk I didn't care about
00:34	technomancy	but from the perspective of "I want to use Scheme to build useful stuff" it's understandable
00:43	Deece	The docs for deliver say that it will throw an exception if i deliver twice to the same promise, but doing so in my repl just returns nil. is this because it's an alpha thing?
00:43	technomancy	,(doto (promise) (deliver 1) (deliver 2))
00:43	clojurebot	#<core$promise$reify__3678@29b473e2: 1>
00:44	technomancy	huh
00:44	technomancy	I guess so
00:44	technomancy	err--I mean it's a bug
00:46	bbloom	,@(doto (promise) (deliver 1) (deliver 2))
00:46	clojurebot	1
00:47	bbloom	,(macroexpand '(doto (promise) (deliver 1) (deliver 2)))
00:47	clojurebot	(let* [G__86 (promise)] (deliver G__86 1) (deliver G__86 2) G__86)
00:47	bbloom	yup seems bugged to me :-)
00:50	amalloy	i think there's a jira issue to update the docs
00:50	amalloy	the behavior changed in, i think, 1.3? it now returns false if deliver failed, rather than throwing
00:59	ivan	fixed post-1.4 http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1038
01:03	ivan	was changed to get rid of locks, I assume https://github.com/clojure/clojure/commit/57c5186972c9c0f03d4bb5d2445309f14405e098
01:03	ihodes	technomancy: bam: working. http://copperthoughts.herokuapp.com/ thanks so much :) it looks like i needed to not use korma, and use a particular combination of versions. i'll investigate further later. got a rails app to finish now…
01:04	ihodes	i think i may be one of the few devs who went clojure -> ruby
01:04	ihodes	:\
01:04	technomancy	I maintain a big pile o ruby at work
01:05	ihodes	what's your day-to-day like nowadays? if you don't mine my asking
01:05	ihodes	sounds like a cool place to work!
01:05	technomancy	I work on the git push pipeline at heroku primarily
01:06	technomancy	I work on lein maybe 20-25% of the time
01:06	technomancy	problem is the adapter between lein and the heroku runtime is so small it's not enough to keep me busy
01:06	ihodes	ah, interesting
01:06	ihodes	i use your work a lot…
01:07	ihodes	actually, for the past 3 or 4 years
01:07	ihodes	i'm either using lein
01:07	ihodes	or pushing to heroku
01:07	ihodes	so, thanks, a lot
01:07	technomancy	well I didn't write much of the git stuff; just keeping it running and experimenting with ways to replace some of the legacy bits
01:09	ihodes	how big is that codebase?
01:09	ihodes	if you don't mind my asking
01:10	technomancy	looks like around 3kloc
01:10	technomancy	that's not including the individual buildpacks for each language, but I don't have to touch those that often
01:10	ihodes	yeah
01:11	technomancy	so just a bit bigger than lein =)
01:12	ihodes	haha
01:12	ihodes	amazing how so little code can keep people so busy
01:13	ihodes	but considering how long i've spent on a few lines of code before
01:18	miql	Just barely started using lein and heroku, so thanks, too!
01:20	Raynes	technomancy is singularly responsible for the 10 hour downtime refheap had recently.
01:20	Raynes	That's the way I see it.
01:21	technomancy	(when (= (System/getenv "USER") "Raynes") (System/exit 255))
01:22	Raynes	!
01:24	ivan	[hickory.zip :refer [hickory-zip]]
01:24	ivan	[clojure.zip :as zip]
01:24	ivan	[me.raynes.laser.zip :as lzip]
01:24	ivan	that's a lot of zips
01:25	Raynes	Bahahaha
01:25	Raynes	Laser is pretty zippy, for sure.
01:25	bbloom	zippy? or is it ZAPpy!?
01:26	Raynes	hickory-zip gets me a zipper over a hickory representation of HTML, zip gets me normal zip functions (obviously) and lzip is stuff for post-order zipper walking.
01:27	Raynes	I like zippers, you see.
01:27	Raynes	I'm just sad I can't find undergarments with zippers.
01:33	aphyr	Is it just me, or is incanter's API... weird?
01:33	technomancy	aphyr: it's weird
01:33	Raynes	I heard it sing White and Nerdy recently.
01:33	Raynes	It's pretty weird.
01:33	aphyr	OK. After 8 hours of trying to wrap my brain around it everything is looking a little questionable.
01:34	aphyr	actually eight nested maps involved in turning... a few integer arrays into a chart
01:36	Raynes	aphyr: http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/32826812.jpg
01:36	Raynes	I was going to do that and be all smug, but it covered up half of his face.
01:36	Raynes	:(
01:37	aphyr	https://www.refheap.com/paste/8050
01:38	aphyr	it's like wandering through a mansion with a flashlight... whenever I look at a function's docs it makes sense, but I have no idea if there are giant rooms full of the stuff I need
01:41	Raynes	aphyr: We should go haunted house touring together.
01:41	Raynes	You sound like the kind of guy I could take a liking to.
01:43	aphyr	haha well I'm really excited about getting graphs out of it! :)
01:43	aphyr	just a little puzzled on the way there
01:44	aphyr	building a tool to do things like "tell me the difference in performance between two git commits of a project"
01:44	aphyr	basho-bench in erlang, kinda
01:45	technomancy	I kept meaning to write a lein plugin that would record that kind of data during CI runs back when I was working on a large project on a daily basis
01:48	aphyr	... wait there's such a thing as haunted house touring?
01:48	aphyr	if so I am totally in
01:49	aaelony	aphyr: do you prefer incanter charting to d3 and (clj)js? what about stuff like this… http://bl.ocks.org/mbostock ...
01:49	Raynes	aphyr: They give tours of some places. Others are existing hotels or bed and breakfasts that we could just stay at.
01:50	aphyr	mbo is cool! Doesn't really matter to me, I just want to get some pngs out of it
01:50	aphyr	Raynes: curiosity piqued
01:51	aphyr	Do we have to stay long enough for the furnace fumes to cause us to hallucinate?
01:51	Raynes	I think we do.
02:14	aphyr	(record {:name "sleep 10" :f #(Thread/sleep 10) :n 1000 :threads 10}))
02:14	aphyr	http://aphyr.com/media/latency.png
02:15	muhoo	i suspect this code is hideous: https://www.refheap.com/paste/8051
02:16	muhoo	so i'm offering it here for amalloy to point that out.
02:16	amalloy	what the hell is this?
02:17	muhoo	hahahaa
02:17	amalloy	trans-fifo is some kind of mutable holder for dates, and you're spin-polling it?
02:17	muhoo	it's my miserable attempt at trying to block waiting for a new thing to be added to a queue
02:18	muhoo	new, meaning after the "bench" date.
02:18	amalloy	https://github.com/flatland/useful/blob/develop/src/flatland/useful/state.clj#L54
02:19	aphyr	ahem: OOOH
02:19	aphyr	squirreling that away, can't count how many times I've written something like this
02:19	muhoo	the top level is: there's a callback in another thread dumping stuff into that fifo. there are multiple threads each waiting for something "new", which locally means after they ask, to be added
02:19	muhoo	amalloy: wow, that's cool, thanks
02:22	amalloy	that code is the one time i've used promises for a good reason
02:23	Raynes	muhoo: I recorded Over My Head by The Fray earlier. I'm in windows or I'd throw it at you.
02:23	Ember-	muhoo: also if you have a slightly easier situation you could just use seque http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/seque
02:26	ejackson	still hating on us old folks, eh Raynes ?
02:27	Raynes	ejackson: Speak up, gramps, can't hear you.
02:28	amalloy	i think usually it goes the other way
02:29	ejackson	what's that sonny, into my good ear !
02:29	Raynes	amalloy: That was kind of the joke. I suck at humor.
02:30	Raynes	amalloy: We were making jokes about how me turning 19 = one foot in the grave this morning.
02:30	amalloy	i remember you having a brief bout with ejackson but i must have missed that part
02:32	muhoo	Raynes: kewl, i should set up my lurking irssi again so you can
02:32	muhoo	Ember-: i started up with sequeu, but this wait-until is perfect
02:33	muhoo	https://www.refheap.com/paste/8052 ... i'ma see if i can get it down to 3 lines
02:35	muhoo	https://www.refheap.com/paste/8053 close enough
02:36	amalloy	muhoo: well, there's an easy one-line shrink that would also improve your correctness. instead of (wait-until ...) (dw @x), write (dw (wait-until ...))
02:36	muhoo	amalloy: cool, will try. thanks again. this is just fantastic
03:24	ebaxt	I'm moving my application off webnoir (since it's deprecated), is ring.middleware.reload the preferred way to reload without restarting?
03:29	bbloom	do protocols support type hints? or do i need to use definterface?
03:31	Sgeo_	Protocols create interfaces, don't they?
03:32	bbloom	Sgeo_: I'd assume so
03:33	bbloom	i guess it doesn't matter... since a protocol compiles to a cast, followed by an interface dispatch
03:34	bbloom	i'm experimenting with some opengl stuff and i really wish i could just generate specialized code paths for every different type of vertex that i want to pump through the system
03:35	bbloom	but then i'd need to write pretty much my whole library inside some giant macros.... which may actually make sense
03:35	bbloom	i basically want multi-type-hints
03:35	bbloom	"recompile this function once for each of these types"
03:36	bbloom	which i suppose java does under the hood
03:36	bbloom	but i don't trust it at this level
03:39	dbushenko	is there a way to ahead-of-time compile records and protocols?
03:39	bbloom	hm, i don't know much about ahead-of-time compilation in clojure... i guess i should read up on it
03:40	bbloom	i kinda always equated that with generating named classes for use by java interop
03:40	dbushenko	that's not an answer for your question, that's just my question too :-)
03:40	dbushenko	I would appreciate if there was a way to aot-compile my records
03:41	bbloom	heh
04:00	tsdh	Is there a way to use multimethods dispatching on type if the type of an objects isn't manifested in its class? Basically, I need something like (defmulti foo class), but with my own class and isa? functions.
04:06	tsdh	I mean, I could use `make-hierarchy' and `derive' to convert the custom type hierarchy of the objects to a hierarchy suitable for isa?, but it doesn't feel right to duplicate that information...
04:06	ejackson	tsdh: sounds doable. Just use your the guts of your isa as the dispatch fn in your multi.
04:07	ejackson	so long as you have a fn that can descriminate your types, you're golden.
04:10	tsdh	ejackson: Well, I have a function (has-type? obj type), but I don't see how that helps me.
04:11	ejackson	you have a function that given an instance of your type returns a value that identifies it ?
04:12	tomoj	but you also need to set up a hierarchy?
04:12	tsdh	ejackson: Well, yes. But if it returned Foo, a method defined for SuperTypeOfFoo should trigger if there's no method for Foo itself.
04:13	tomoj	where is the information of the type hierarchy now?
04:13	ejackson	i see, trickier.
04:13	tsdh	tomoj: The hierarchy is basically there. For every object, (.getType o) returns its type and for these types I have (.isSuperType t1 t2) and friends.
04:14	tomoj	but where? in java code?
04:14	tsdh	tomoj: Yes.
04:14	tomoj	my condolences
04:15	tsdh	So if I could replace isa? with my own function, it'd be very easy.
04:15	ejackson	can you expose a method in those java objects that returns their type/super-type ?
04:15	tomoj	I guess you could write a macro to which the input is a list of all the types
04:16	tomoj	if the number of types squared is not very large, the macro could go through every pair and check .isSuperType
04:16	tomoj	then emit the necessary derives
04:16	tomoj	not sure why you'd want to do that though..
04:17	tsdh	tomoj: Yes, that would be possible, but I don't want to convert an existing hierarchy to another one. So probably I take the multimethods implementation and change it to my needs.
04:18	tsdh	ejackson: As said, they already have these methods.
04:19	ejackson	why can't you use them to dispatch ? (sorry if that's a stupid question)
04:21	ejackson	(defmulti mm [x] (.my-type-or-super-type x))
04:22	tsdh	ejackson: Because multimethods use the function isa? to compare the defmethod dispatch-val with the value returned by the dispatch function. Instead of isa?, I'd need my own isa? that known about the type hierarchy of the objects.
04:22	ejackson	that way you can get the java hierarchy to do the inheritance dance for you
04:23	bbloom	tsdh: you could patch my use my dispatch-map project to support custom isa?
04:23	bbloom	tsdh: https://github.com/brandonbloom/dispatch-map
04:24	bbloom	https://github.com/brandonbloom/dispatch-map/blob/master/src/dispatch_map/core.clj#L102
04:24	bbloom	and line 106 just a few down
04:24	bbloom	those could become (.isa? dm x y)
04:24	bbloom	if you add an isa? member to dispatch-map
04:24	tsdh	ejackson: But the inheritance dance is not reflected in the classes. Just because (.isSuperType (.getType o1) (.getType o2)) is true doesn't imply that (class (.getType o1)) is a superclass of (class (.getType o2))). In fact, both classes are the same.
04:25	tsdh	bbloom: Thanks, I'll have a look at it.
04:25	ejackson	ok, gotcha. Could you get a java method to return a vector of the type and supertypes going back to Object ?
04:25	bbloom	tsdh: i don't have an implementation of multimethods yet, but they are trivial
04:26	ejackson	then you could recursively dispatch the multimethod on those until you get a hit ?
04:26	ejackson	that might just be crazy talk though
04:26	bbloom	ejackson: the better thing to do is to use a pluggable implementation... which is what i'm offering he make out of mine :-)
04:26	ejackson	hehehe, alrighty :)
04:26	bbloom	tsdh: i need a break from this other project, maybe i'll add the multimethod functions too... shouldn't take me long
04:31	tsdh	bbloom: That looks good. `dispatch-map' could then accept an additional isa?-fn to override the standard behavior?
04:31	bbloom	tsdh: yeah
04:31	bbloom	i'd take a pull request for that
04:32	bbloom	tsdh: actually, i can probably just do it for you, it's really quick
04:32	bbloom	i won't even invoice you :-)
04:33	tsdh	:-)
04:36	ejackson	bbloom: that's an interesting lib
04:36	ejackson	cool !
04:36	muhoo	clojurebot: java logging
04:36	clojurebot	java logging is clown shoes
04:37	muhoo	http://www.slf4j.org/images/concrete-bindings.png hell yeh it is.
04:41	bbloom	ejackson: thanks :-)
04:53	borkdude	Is there already something like this "scopes" thing that Stuart Sierra mentions here? https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/clojure/2JDLF9E934o
04:55	bbloom	i havent seen anything like it... rich released some stuff on streams a while back but it didn't seem to go anywhere. i think chunked sequences got most of the perf benefits and the resource management stuff wasn't big enough a problem to justify new features
04:57	bbloom	tsdh: i'm definitely going to do the features you need, but you may just want to check back tomorrow :-)
04:57	tsdh	bbloom: No problem, I'm not in a hurry.
04:57	bbloom	tsdh: easiest thing to do is to star the project :-)
04:58	tsdh	bbloom: Done.
04:59	Raynes	tomoj: Don't know if you noticed, but I released a new version of laser with the select changes we talked about. Haven't done anyting with the attr= function and such though.
05:15	grayzone	hello to anyone : i've a problem with sqlite3 & org.clojure/java.jdbc "0.2.3" : IllegalStateException I/O in transaction clojure.java.jdbc/transaction* (jdbc.clj:369) : suggestions for a sample with create table on db sqlite3 ?
05:38	svedubois	(new topic) I have created a vector:
05:38	svedubois	(def idx (org.itk.simple.VectorUInt32.))
05:38	svedubois	And I would like to print and modify the vector, but I it doesn't work.
05:38	svedubois	When I do this:
05:38	svedubois	(println idx)
05:38	svedubois	I obtain this:
05:38	svedubois	#<VectorUInt32 org.itk.simple.VectorUInt32@54ee4346>
05:38	svedubois	The javadoc of the class VectorUInt32 is here:
05:38	svedubois	http://jsfiddle.net/svedubois/WBvEt/
05:38	svedubois	Can you give me some advice?
05:39	tomoj	Do `(<= level conf)` and "Confidence is <= level." mean the same thing?
05:45	bbloom	tsdh: is your custom hierarchy immutable?
05:45	bbloom	with java, if you redefine a type, it's a new type
05:45	tsdh	tsdh: Yes.
05:45	bbloom	tsdh: ok b/c i've got polymorphic isa? working (i think) with an IHierarchy protocol
05:45	bbloom	but you need to make sure that the result of your -isa protocol definition would be memoizable
05:46	tsdh	bbloom: Cool, I'll have a look later.
05:46	bbloom	not published yet
05:46	bbloom	still writing test cases
05:46	bbloom	tsdh: issue here: https://github.com/brandonbloom/dispatch-map/issues/1
05:46	tsdh	bbloom: Watching.
05:50	augustl	is there a small in-process document database for the JVM I can use for storing small things like user settings?
05:52	svedubois	Any advice about how to print/modify a vector using org.itk.simple.VectorUInt32 ?
05:52	noidi	augustl, if you don't need anything fancy, you could `pprint` the settings into a file and `read` them back
05:53	augustl	noidi: ah, cool
05:53	noidi	,(require 'clojure.pprint)
05:53	clojurebot	nil
05:54	noidi	,(pprint "{:foo 123}")
05:54	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: pprint in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
05:54	noidi	,(clojure.pprint/pprint {:foo 123})
05:54	clojurebot	{:foo 123}
05:54	noidi	,(with-out-str (clojure.pprint/pprint {:foo 123}))
05:54	clojurebot	"{:foo 123}\n"
05:57	bbloom	i apparently suck at spelling hierarchy
06:01	grc	I'm missing something obvious here: (def my-map {:a 1 :b 2}), (def my-list '(my-map)), (map? (first my-list)) => false
06:03	Anonny	Go ahead and call my-list.
06:05	grc	Anonny: clojure.lang.PersistentList cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn
06:05	grc	which seems reasonable: invoked as (my-list)
06:05	Anonny	I had it show up (my-map)
06:06	Anonny	(def my-list (list my-map)) works however
06:06	svedubois	I have created a java array called idx, when I write: (alength idx) I obtain an error. What I am doing wrong?
06:07	grc	Anonny: That's working here too. I have no idea why
06:08	Anonny	grc: I think '(my-map) isn't actually capturing the value of the variable.
06:08	Anonny	grc: It might just be capturing the literal name for the var.
06:09	grc	Anonny: You're right and I need to go and read up on quote again. Thanks
06:09	Anonny	grc: But that's just a guess. I'm sure somebody has a real answer
06:09	Anonny	grc: My pleasure.
06:09	andrewmcveigh\|wo	grc: the symbol is not evaluated because you quoted it ##(symbol? (first '(my-map)))
06:09	lazybot	⇒ true
06:11	grc	andrewmcveigh\|wo: Thanks.
06:12	Anonny	svedubois: (.length idx)?
06:13	svedubois	Anonny: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching field found: length for class org.itk.simple.VectorUInt32
06:14	svedubois	The javadoc of the class VectorUInt32 is here: http://jsfiddle.net/svedubois/WBvEt/
06:17	Anonny	svedubois: Neither capacity or size do what you're looking for?
06:18	Anonny	nor size*
06:19	svedubois	Anonny: Yes, (.capacity idx)
06:19	svedubois	(.size idx)
06:19	svedubois	print without error 0
06:20	svedubois	How I can set a vector for this java array?
06:28	svedubois	I have created and image called imgx
06:28	svedubois	(def imgx (org.itk.simple.Image. 256 256 PixelIDValueEnum/sitkFloat32))
06:28	svedubois	I am not sure that this is the Size:
06:28	svedubois	(.getSize imgx) ;-> #<VectorUInt32 org.itk.simple.VectorUInt32@23a647ea>
06:28	svedubois	(.size(.getSize imgx)) ;-> 2
06:28	svedubois	The javadoc of Image is here http://jsfiddle.net/svedubois/MdPWz/
06:31	llasram	svedubois: So, .getSize is returning an array then? What's the problem?
06:32	svedubois	llasram: I would like to (.getPixel imgx 0 0 0)
06:32	svedubois	(.setPixel imgx 0 0 0 1)
06:33	svedubois	But I don't know which method I have to use and how.
06:34	svedubois	There is not getPixel, there are different getPixels.
06:34	svedubois	For example, (.getPixelIDValue imgx 0 0 0)
06:34	svedubois	And it gives and error
06:35	llasram	Well yeah -- your javadoc there says the getPixelIDValue method doesn't take any arguments
06:36	llasram	It seems like you're having issues figuring out how to use this library at all vs using it in Clojure. I'd suggest getting help getting it working in Java, and asking further here if you have trouble translating what works in Java into Clojure
06:41	svedubois	(.getPixelIDValue imgx)
06:41	svedubois	;-> 6
06:46	callen	hugod: debugging. How do I get a debugging experience in Clojure like http://pypi.python.org/pypi/ipdb
07:13	bbloom	what do i do license-wise if i want to copy paste a big chunk of code out of clojure.core?
07:13	bbloom	do i just put an inline attribution and assign copyrights to rich hickey? or what?
07:14	callen	bbloom: just wondering...why?
07:15	bbloom	i implemented multimethods on top of my dispatch-map and i want to copy 10+ tests over wholesale
07:27	callen	bbloom: why did you implement multimethods?
07:27	bbloom	callen: because https://github.com/brandonbloom/dispatch-map made it easy & it seemed like fun? :-)
07:27	bbloom	also tsdh needed custom isa?
07:28	callen	sometimes I wonder if anybody here makes things that aren't experiments.
07:30	bbloom	dispatch-map isn't an experiment, i'm using it for a real project :-P
07:55	bbloom	tsdh: ok that took much longer than i expected... but it's done :-P
07:55	tsdh	bbloom: Thank you, I'll give it a try. :-)
07:55	bbloom	tsdh: if you have any issues, please report them on github
07:55	tsdh	I'll do if I find one.
07:56	callen	bbloom: you wouldn't happen to be aware of any good debuggers for Clojure, would you?
07:57	bbloom	callen: no, but i haven't really felt the need for one since i can pprint any intermediate value. i generally prefer printf debugging anyway, but i'm a crazy person
07:58	callen	bbloom: I'm accustomed to having first-class in-langauge debugger/REPL combos from Common Lisp and Python
07:58	callen	bbloom: that I can't find one for a Lisp (Clojure) is appalling.
07:58	algernon	callen: I've had reasonable success with yourkit's stuff. (but I mostly used it for profiling, for debugging, I usually abuse robert.hooke and pprint to my heart's content)
07:59	callen	algernon: I don't really want to use software other people control.
07:59	bbloom	lolwut
07:59	callen	and I don't want a profiler, I want a native Clojure debugger/REPL.
08:00	callen	my impression has been that YourKit is commercial but donates to open source projects.
08:00	bbloom	it's a profiler, you're not taking a dependency on it
08:00	algernon	callen: you might want to have a look at https://github.com/pallet/ritz then
08:00	dpwright	hello -- sure I must be doing something stupid here, but a project I've made which runs fine when I run "lein repl" and then (-main) fails with "No such namespace: goshiki" (where goshiki is a namespace defined in another file in my project) when I do "lein run"
08:00	callen	algernon: I already have, or I wouldn't be asking
08:00	callen	I don't want a java debugger
08:00	callen	I want a Clojure debugger
08:00	callen	https://github.com/georgejahad/debug-repl <--- this is closer to my intent.
08:01	bbloom	dpwright: refheap your ns forms
08:02	dpwright	(more precisely, I have a namespace hotel-scraper.goshiki which is required thus '[hotel-scraper.goshiki :as goshiki]'
08:02	hugod	callen: what didn't you like in ritz?
08:02	dpwright	bbloom -- thank you, I will look up what that means and then try it ;-)
08:02	bbloom	~refheap
08:02	clojurebot	refheap is gist
08:02	bbloom	~gist
08:02	clojurebot	gist is forget ~paste
08:02	bbloom	~paste
08:02	clojurebot	paste is not gist.github.com
08:02	bbloom	LOL
08:02	callen	hugod: I can't figure out how to make it behave like a native Clojure REPL
08:02	bbloom	http://www.refheap.com
08:02	dpwright	oh I see
08:03	hugod	callen: in what way?
08:03	callen	hugod: if you can point to documentation that will let me do what I want, do so
08:03	callen	hugod: but when I looked, all I could find was shitty auto-generated crap.
08:04	callen	I don't use any java IDEs or any of that crap, so if using JPDA requires that, I'm out.
08:04	hugod	callen: most of http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Debugger.html applies to ritz
08:04	callen	hugod: that is such a cop out. never mind then.
08:05	callen	hugod: I'm asking how to use ritz, not slime/swank.
08:05	callen	If I use swank, I'm just going to use CDT.
08:05	callen	I'd rather use nREPL though.
08:05	hugod	callen: it applies to ritz-nrepl too
08:05	callen	hugod: where's the documentation?
08:06	algernon	https://github.com/pallet/ritz/tree/develop/nrepl got me started, fwiw.
08:06	algernon	(linked from the main ritz readme)
08:07	dpwright	bbloom https://www.refheap.com/paste/8059
08:07	callen	algernon: I've seen that, I didn't see anything for dropping a REPL inline at runtime.
08:07	bbloom	dpwright: the filename must match the ns name
08:08	bbloom	dpwright: are those in a hotel_scraper directory ?
08:08	dpwright	bbloom, yes -- core.clj was generated by leiningen, and I just added goshiki.clj next to it
08:08	bbloom	do you have a hotel-scraper.util ?
08:08	bbloom	hotel_scraper/util.clj
08:09	dpwright	yes, defined inside util.clj in the same directory
08:09	bbloom	and it's ns form ?
08:10	bbloom	its*
08:10	dpwright	https://www.refheap.com/paste/8060
08:10	dpwright	just noticed, my project.clj doesn't specify a src directory
08:11	dpwright	the sources are in src/hotel_scraper, which I thought was the default, but..
08:11	bbloom	it is the default
08:11	bbloom	hm i'm not sure
08:11	bbloom	but i'm also exhausted, so my eyes might be useless
08:12	bbloom	sorry man, good luck! i'm off to bed
08:12	dpwright	thanks for taking a look!
08:12	dpwright	night
08:15	dpwright	ah -- figured it out! I was doing an eval inside the code, running something read in from a config file. I guess when I ran it from the repl the namespaces were set up ok, but using "lein run" they weren't. At any rate, using the full namespace name in the config file rather than the shortened one I specified in the :require statement fixed it.
08:15	dpwright	thanks again for your time bbloom
08:16	dpwright	time for me to head bedward too
08:20	hugod	callen: the nearest is to set a breakpoint, and then use 'e' to evaluate arbitrary expressions within the context of any stack frame
08:24	callen	hugod: okay let me provide some contrast. first step: `pip install ipdb`
08:25	callen	hugod: second step: drop `ipdb.set_trace()` wherever you want a debugger/REPL to pop up. There is no third step.
08:31	hugod	callen: sure, it is not super smooth to set up. Contributions welcome...
08:32	callen	hugod: is there a way to use it just from a running process?
08:33	callen	I'd rather experiment with it before shitting up my Emacs config.
08:34	hugod	callen: it requires a jvm running with debug flags. At the moment it does that by controlling the process startup (with lein-ritz). Attaching to a running process is on the todo list.
09:22	TimMc	technomancy: The lein-newnew changes will invalidate the leiningen.new tests -- perhaps those should live on newnew in the first place...
09:26	marianoguerra	I want to filter a map by some field on the value and then build a new map, I'm doing something like (apply hash-map (flatten (filter filter-fn (seq the-map))))
09:26	marianoguerra	(of course not as a one liner)
09:26	marianoguerra	is there another way?
09:51	llasram	marianoguerra: ##(let [input {:a 1, :b 2, :c 3, :d 4}] (into {} (filter (comp odd? second) input)))
09:51	lazybot	⇒ {:a 1, :c 3}
09:52	marianoguerra	llasram: thanks
10:04	bosie	so, i am reading on macros in Clojure Programming and i enter the first macro they have in my REPL. it seems to work, i get #'user/reverse-it back. calling the macro though results in "unable to resolve symbol: nltnirp)
10:05	bosie	https://gist.github.com/4444022
10:06	nDuff	bosie: well, of course -- println reversed isn't something valid.
10:07	jeremyheiler	I think you're supposed to call it (reverse-it (nltnirp "foo"))
10:08	nDuff	bosie: ...it's not a macro that's expected to actually be very _useful_, but is a demonstration of the power/flexibility.
10:08	bosie	nDuff: at this point it doesn't demonstrate anything to me
10:08	bosie	nDuff: if i call the function walk/postwalk manually it works
10:08	nDuff	bosie: it demonstrates that a macro can rewrite the symbol "println" to be its reverse -- "nltnirp"
10:08	bosie	if i call it through the macro, it doesn't
10:08	bosie	nDuff: no?
10:09	nDuff	bosie: so, the error itself demonstrates that the macro is working.
10:09	nDuff	bosie: because the code within the macro is rewritten according to its instructions.
10:09	noidi	here's a better demonstration of the power of lisp macros https://www.hackerschool.com/blog/13-list-comprehensions-in-eight-lines-of-clojure
10:09	bosie	ah
10:09	bosie	so symbol executes/evaluates the method?
10:10	nDuff	no
10:10	bosie	no
10:10	bosie	(walk/postwalk #(if (symbol? %)
10:10	bosie	(symbol (str/reverse (name %)))
10:10	bosie	%)sorry
10:10	bosie	again, i don't get it
10:10	nDuff	when you use a non-special name, that's a symbol
10:10	nDuff	for instance, in (println "foo"), println is a symbol
10:10	noidi	bosie, the symbol println is turned into string "println", reversed into "nltnirp", and turned into symbol nltnirp
10:11	bosie	noidi: i get that. i don't get the error part
10:11	nDuff	so, the macro is creating a symbol "nltnirp", akin to the symbol "println" but not actually pointing to anything valid.
10:11	noidi	after that the code is executed, as if you had written nltnirp instead of println
10:11	nDuff	and because "nltnirp" isn't valid, you get an error.
10:11	bosie	https://gist.github.com/4444089
10:11	bosie	executed by whom?
10:11	nDuff	Executed?
10:11	nDuff	This is a compile-time error.
10:11	nDuff	There's no execution happening yet.
10:11	bosie	ok
10:12	noidi	sorry, s/executed/evaluated/
10:12	bosie	ok
10:13	noidi	,(ntlirp "foo")
10:13	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: ntlirp in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
10:13	bosie	yup
10:14	bosie	but i am not sure
10:14	bosie	why calling the method directly vs calling it through the macro results in 2 different results
10:14	jonasen	cemerick: is this by design, or a bug in nrepl: https://www.refheap.com/paste/8057 ?
10:14	nDuff	bosie: well, you're not calling the same code through the macro
10:14	nDuff	bosie: macros rewrite their contents
10:15	nDuff	bosie: ...rewrite their contents at compile time, even. that's what they _do_, and what makes them fundamentally different from functions.
10:15	nDuff	bosie: so, the macro rewrites the code to replace all symbols with reversed versions of their names
10:15	nDuff	s/the/that particular/
10:15	nDuff	bosie: so it's no surprise that the rewritten code won't compile.
10:16	bosie	nDuff: oh, so when i call the macro, it actually gets recompiled?
10:16	bosie	and rewritten
10:16	bosie	?
10:16	bosie	i thought only the macro itself gets rewritten
10:17	nDuff	bosie: well, when you enter _anything_ at the REPL, that thing gets compiled before it's executed. When you compile code that contains a macro call, though, the macro rewrites the code within it.
10:17	noidi	bosie, the macro takes a data structure representing code that's read but not evaluated. it then transforms it into another data structure, which is then evaluated.
10:17	bosie	i see
10:17	bosie	got it, thank you
10:17	noidi	,(read-string "(println \"foo\"")
10:17	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
10:18	noidi	,(read-string "(println \"foo\")")
10:18	clojurebot	(println "foo")
10:18	noidi	that's the read phase
10:18	noidi	it transforms your source code into a data structure
10:18	noidi	,(eval (read-string "(println \"foo\")"))
10:18	clojurebot	#<Exception java.lang.Exception: SANBOX DENIED>
10:19	noidi	okay, that would've resulted in a println call if clojurebot would allow it :)
10:19	bosie	thanks a lot guys, really appreciated
10:19	jkkramer	you are henceforth initiated into macro club
10:19	jkkramer	the first rule of macro club is: don't write macros
10:20	ohpauleez	is the second rule about hygenic macros?
10:20	nDuff	ohpauleez: that's the third rule. The second rule is also "don't write macros".
10:21	ohpauleez	ahh right right :)
10:21	ejackson	you're not supposed to use because they're made from fat people, or something... i don't fully grok it.
10:22	nDuff	ejackson: More about composability. Can't use macros as arguments to higher-order functions.
10:23	ejackson	indeed, and they make your brains leak out your ears; upsets the cubicle-mates.
10:25	nDuff	bosie: ...by the way, you may have already gotten this, but just to amplify a bit re "when I call the macro" -- macros only take effect at compile time; there's no invocation/recompilation happening after that point.
10:32	bosie	jkkramer: why not?
10:32	bosie	ok
10:33	yogthos	bosie: macros are considered to be more difficult to understand than regular functions
10:33	jkkramer	bosie: for the reason nDuff gave. Also, macros hijack evaluation and can make your code confusing to read if not used with care
10:33	bosie	yogthos: and i guess composability as mentioned by nDuff doesn't help either ;)
10:33	yogthos	bosie: so if you can just do it with a function it's probably more maintainable in the long run
10:34	yogthos	bosie: right :)
10:34	nDuff	...so, there are cases where macros _are_ appropriate -- but basically, those come down to "language features".
10:34	nDuff	Anything with short-circuiting evaluation, for instance.
10:34	bosie	why oculdn't i rewrite "for" as a function?
10:34	jkkramer	macros are good at removing syntactic boilerplate
10:35	yogthos	I like to think of macros as templating, if you have have some repeating code which is hard to abstract otherwise then macro is appropriate
10:35	yogthos	also good for deferring evaluation
10:35	nDuff	...and there are also cases where functions would have more overhead (though there are hybrid approaches to that -- see ie. definline)
10:35	dnolen	the list of things that macros are good at ... long list
10:36	dnolen	my rule of thumb is if I can't interact w/ the basic api w/o macros - there's probably a problem.
10:36	cemerick	jonasen: a bit of a bug; keywords are just name'd upon serialization to bencode (which only supports strings, integers, lists (vectors), and maps)
10:36	nDuff	dnolen++
10:36	jkkramer	bosie: you can, but it wouldn't be pretty
10:37	jkkramer	&(macroexpand '(for [i (range 3)] (inc i)))
10:37	lazybot	⇒ (let* [iter__4468__auto__ (clojure.core/fn iter__141314 [s__141315] (clojure.core/lazy-seq (clojure.core/loop [s__141315 s__141315] (clojure.core/when-let [s__141315 (clojure.core/seq s__141315)] (if (clojure.core/chunked-seq? s__141315) (clojure.core/let [c__44... https://www.refheap.com/paste/8062
10:37	cemerick	jonasen: side effect of using the stringify and keywordize stuff in clojure.walk
10:39	cemerick	Some people have suggested the development of an edn transport, though that will leave out e.g. vim
10:41	jonasen	cemerick: ok. How about a fressian transport? Anyone attempted that? I'd guess it would be a great fit
10:41	cemerick	jonasen: no, no one's done that one either
10:46	silasdavis	i'm using the lein ring plugin to start a server, could someone tell me how it goes about finding what file/code to run?
10:46	weavejester	silasdavis: It should be in the README. It expects a key in your project.clj file telling it where the Ring handler function is.
10:48	brainproxy	weavejester: have you run into weirdness w/ lein-ring, auto-reload and clojure 1.5.0-RC1
10:48	brainproxy	?
10:48	weavejester	brainproxy: No, but I haven't used Clojure 1.5.0-RC1 with Ring yet. However, there is a pull request for ns-tracker that I'll merge tonight that I think some people were saying they needed
10:49	brainproxy	sure, that might be related
10:49	brainproxy	weavejester: btw, with respect to lein-ring / ring, where is the source code that drives the behavior of auto-refresh
10:50	brainproxy	i went hunting for it the other day and couldn't find it
10:50	weavejester	brainproxy: https://github.com/weavejester/ring-refresh
10:51	brainproxy	sure, I'm aware of that repo, but ... how is that getting pulled in by lein-ring / ring
10:51	brainproxy	didn't see the dep in project.clj
10:51	silasdavis	weavejester: ah yes it's in the install section, thanks
10:52	weavejester	brainproxy: Plugins operate in a separate classloader than the actual project itself
10:52	weavejester	brainproxy: So if you want a plugin to use library X in your project, it needs to be in the project's dependencies, not the plugin's
10:53	brainproxy	well i have auto-refresh working
10:53	brainproxy	but I'm not using that plugin
10:53	brainproxy	just lein-ring
10:53	weavejester	brainproxy: lein-ring is injecting that dependency into your project map when "lein ring server" runs
10:54	brainproxy	makes sense, but what drives that functionalit w/in lein-ring, hunted in the source for it, must have missed something
10:56	jcrossley3	weavejester: i saw your comment on kognate's PR about :path-info. any chance of getting that and :context into the Ring spec?
10:56	weavejester	brainproxy: It's easy to miss. Let me find the line
10:57	weavejester	jcrossley3: Why should it be in the Ring spec?
10:57	weavejester	brainproxy: https://github.com/weavejester/lein-ring/blob/master/src/leiningen/ring/server.clj#L17
10:58	weavejester	And ring-server has the dependencies:
10:58	weavejester	https://github.com/weavejester/ring-server/blob/master/project.clj
10:58	brainproxy	weavejester: ah, thanks
10:58	jcrossley3	weavejester: i figured it made sense if "official" ring middleware is referring to it.
10:59	brainproxy	weavejester: i don't think I ever made the connection between lein-ring and your ring-server thing
11:00	brainproxy	i was just bouncing back and forth between sources for lein-ring and ring proper
11:00	weavejester	jcrossley3: The SPEC defines how to transform a HTTP request and response into Clojure maps
11:00	weavejester	But path-info and context are not part of HTTP
11:01	weavejester	Strictly speaking, nor are URL-encoded parameters, cookies, sessions, and a lot of other things
11:01	jcrossley3	weavejester: sure, but i think it'd be useful to have a canonical list of what keys i can expect in the request. where is that if not the spec?
11:02	weavejester	So even though official Ring middleware will use these keys, they still shouldn't be part of the spec, because they're not something an adapter-writer should worry about.
11:02	weavejester	It's possible we could create a list of keys that the various Ring middleware adds
11:02	yogthos	I think at least the context needs to be in the spec, as it's something that's part of the servlet spec
11:02	weavejester	But this would be documentation, not specification.
11:03	yogthos	this was a long time bug in noir where, it redirects ignored the context and if you deployed on something like tomcat your app would be broken
11:03	weavejester	The Ring spec is unrelated to the servlet spec.
11:03	weavejester	The Ring spec defines the mapping between HTTP and Clojure
11:03	weavejester	One of the problems with Java servlets is that it attempts to put too much in the same specification
11:04	jcrossley3	weavejester: the majority of the spec is a listing of the keys available in the request and response maps. :)
11:04	yogthos	true
11:04	weavejester	HTTP, cookies, parameters, sessions, long polling and so forth
11:04	weavejester	The Ring spec is just about HTTP and nothing more
11:04	yogthos	but since ring runs on top of servlets, it's something that you do have to be aware of when working with ring
11:04	weavejester	yogthos: Well, no, not really. Only if you deploy Ring to a legacy servlet container
11:05	yogthos	weavejester: well any container, like glassfish, jboss, tomcat, etc
11:05	weavejester	If you're just using Ring with the adapter, there shouldn't be anything you need to know about the underlying implementation
11:05	yogthos	I think most people run jetty standalone where it's not an issue
11:05	jcrossley3	i don't think ring necessarily runs on top of servlets, but it does concede inspiration from Rack and WSGI, both of which support :context and :path-info in addition to :uri, the latter being in the spec.
11:06	weavejester	jcrossley3: It is inspired by those, but path-info and context shouldn't be in a spec that deals with HTTP
11:06	jcrossley3	weavejester: i gather you feel pretty strongly about this. :)
11:06	yogthos	hehe
11:07	yogthos	what about making context part of the implementation?
11:07	yogthos	not expose it as a key, but if it is present it's probably should be part of any relative urls
11:07	weavejester	Well, once upon a time I asked Mark the same thing: I wanted :context and :path-info in the SPEC
11:07	yogthos	then it wouldn't be exposed to the user, but you'd still have correct behavior in case it is present
11:07	weavejester	But after some discussion I've changed my mind
11:08	weavejester	For Ring 1.2, middleware that used to access the :uri is now going to use the ring.util.request/path-info function
11:08	weavejester	Which is just (or (:path-info request) (:uri request))
11:09	weavejester	So the code will be aware of the :path-info key
11:09	weavejester	And having documentation on all the keys that Ring middleware adds is a good idea
11:09	weavejester	But there's a difference between documentation and specification
11:09	yogthos	yeah that's a good point
11:10	weavejester	The former describes the code, and the latter is something from which code is derived
11:10	weavejester	So for the SPEC, that's a specification because you want all the adapters to share a common interface
11:10	weavejester	But for things like the :cookies key, there's no need for a specification
11:10	weavejester	Because we only need one wrap-cookies middleware
11:11	yogthos	right, it's not a common protocol that needs to be shared by different adapters
11:11	weavejester	Exactly :)
11:11	yogthos	yeah that's a good separation
11:11	weavejester	But documenting all the keys is definitely a good idea.
11:11	yogthos	:)
11:11	weavejester	It just shouldn't be a spec, because that's kinda like the tail wagging the dog.
11:12	jcrossley3	weavejester: i agree with all of that. i really just want all the ring middleware to work correctly with context paths. i still feel, as you once did, contexts should be a part of a spec that maps a "hypertext transport protocol" to what we now know as the "interwebs" but i respect your perspective there.
11:13	weavejester	Well, there are two possibilities: create a spec which defines how :context and :path-info work, or create code that defines how they work
11:14	yogthos	but is there any value in exposing the context to the user in the first place?
11:14	jcrossley3	weavejester: imagine how pissed you'd be if rack, wsgi, and servlets took the code approach. :)
11:15	weavejester	yogthos: It's useful for links.
11:15	Seba51	Hi yogthos, nice to meet you.
11:15	yogthos	weavejester: a link to a different context on the same app server?
11:15	yogthos	Seba51: hello :)
11:16	jcrossley3	weavejester: folks will end up in the same place i am right now: debating whether to copy/rewrite/monkey-patch ring middleware until it catches up. if we're going to be data-driven, let's spec out the available data.
11:16	weavejester	jcrossley3: I didn't mean have the definition scattered throughout the code
11:16	silasdavis	why does ((fn [] "string message")) work but (#("string message")) does not?
11:16	weavejester	I mean, like wrap-cookies, you only need a single function to do that
11:16	weavejester	So you have a middleare function, wrap-context, that adds a :context and :path-info key
11:16	weavejester	And the docstring describes how it works
11:17	jlewis	silasdavis: because #() anonymous functions try to apply the first exp inside of them as a function to the rest
11:17	weavejester	So effectively we constrain the definition of context to a single middleware
11:17	yogthos	I think that's fairly reasonable, and templates can be used to set it up correctly :)
11:18	yogthos	that definitely provides a lot of granularity, you want context handling you wrap the middleware, you don't then you don't
11:18	jcrossley3	weavejester: yeah, i retract my last comment. i think making ring fully context-aware, whether spec'd or not is fine.
11:18	silasdavis	jlewis: and the rest in this context is? could you expand the #(...) to (fn ...)?
11:18	jlewis	#(...) is the same as (fn [] (...))
11:19	jlewis	well, it might have arguments, but you get the picture
11:19	weavejester	jcrossley3: The only thing I'm a little worried about is whether that approach will work for everything.
11:19	silasdavis	jlewis: um so I feel like my two expressions are the same, but the fn one works as expected
11:19	jcrossley3	weavejester: dammit! i was banking on YOUR confidence it will! don't make me worry about these things! ;)
11:19	weavejester	jcrossley3: It might be that, for instance, it doesn't make sense for servlets to use wrap-context, but to get the context and path info from the servlet.
11:19	silasdavis	the shorthand ones throws: ClassCastException java.lang.String cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn
11:20	jlewis	yes - note that the one you wrote with fn doesn't have any inner parens, like my example
11:20	weavejester	jcrossley3: The only way to be sure is to implement it, and then see if we need multiple implementations.
11:20	terom	silasdavis: they're not the same, (fn [] (...)) vs (fn [] ...)
11:20	weavejester	jcrossley3: If we do, then it's time for a spec
11:20	matthavener	silasdavis: the #("string") becomes (fn [] ("string")) and tries to execute "string"
11:20	weavejester	jcrossley3: But only if we need multiple implementations. If we only have one, then there's not much point in writing a spec :)
11:20	silasdavis	oh right yes
11:21	yogthos	silasdavis: it's because #( ) expects a function name as the first item
11:21	jcrossley3	weavejester: true, but please just s/:uri/:path-info/ before your next release, k? :)
11:21	hyPiRion	,#([0] 0)
11:21	matthavener	silasdavis: you can always do #(identity "string"), but thats longer than (fn [] "string") :)
11:21	yogthos	silasdavis: in case of #("foo") first item is a string, it tries to execute it as a function and fails
11:21	clojurebot	#<sandbox$eval27$fn__28 sandbox$eval27$fn__28@292d45ad>
11:21	hyPiRion	,(#([0] 0))
11:21	clojurebot	0
11:22	weavejester	jcrossley3: That's the plan. It's worked well in Compojure for the past couple of years, so it makes sense to integrate it into Ring.
11:23	silasdavis	or (#(str "string))
11:23	jcrossley3	weavejester: agree. what release version of ring are you targetting?
11:23	Seba51	Being nosy: what is the context thing you are talking about?
11:24	yogthos	Seba51: in Java servlet spec you can have a context string, which specifies the context relative to the application server you're deploying on
11:24	Seba51	I know
11:25	yogthos	Seba51: ok so the problem is that if you don't specify the context in the url, then it won't work correctly in those situations
11:25	yogthos	Seba51: for example if you're doing a redirect
11:26	Seba51	Even worse, you can have a mod_jk or mod_proxy receiving a request on www.example.com and calling your jetty server on http://localhost:8080/myapp
11:26	yogthos	Seba51: right same problem ;)
11:26	yogthos	Seba51: although shouldn't apache rewrite the urls at that point?
11:27	jcrossley3	Seba51: yogthos: or mapping a uri path component to a file system or class path, in the case of wrap-file or wrap-resource.
11:28	silasdavis	more basic clojure non-understanding... when using moustache why does (app [""] "string") produce a working handler but (app [""] ((fn [] "string"))) does not?
11:29	silasdavis	I'm guessing because app is a macro it is able to not evaluate the function argument as I expect
11:29	creese	did moustache development start up again?
11:29	Seba51	No
11:29	silasdavis	is moustache dead?
11:30	creese	last I heard, it was suggested to use Compojure
11:30	Seba51	You would have to filter the html, analyse the Javascript, patch whatever is building a URL to finally have a correct HTML
11:30	Seba51	You will receive the context with different request parameters.
11:31	Seba51	Out of my mind, something like x_context
11:31	silasdavis	I actually was using compojure, but thought I try moustache for the hell of it. I see the last commit was a year ago. I'll switch back
11:31	Seba51	Only redirects are fixed
11:33	Seba51	See here: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/mod/mod_proxy.html#request-bodies
11:34	yogthos	silasdavis: shameless plug :P http://luminus.herokuapp.com/
11:34	yogthos	silasdavis: trying to make a one stop shop for clojure web dev :)
11:35	Seba51	@yogthos Any reading is mod_jk: 3. Some applications might contain hard coded absolute links. In this case check, whether you find a configuration item for your web framework to configure the base URL. If not, your only chance is to parse all response content bodies and do search and replace. This is fragile and very resource intensive. If you really need to do this, you can use http://apache.webthing.com/mod_proxy_html/, http://httpd.ap
11:36	silasdavis	yogthos: that looks really useful thanks
11:36	yogthos	silasdavis: good to hear, and any feedback is welcome as I'm still working out long term direction for it
11:37	silasdavis	I started of with noir and then someone told me (in a pub surprisingly) that that was deprecated
11:37	yogthos	Seba51: yeah so long story short stay away from mod_jk if possible ;)
11:37	systemfault	Hmm, if noir is deprecated then what is the cool framework to use nowadays?
11:37	yogthos	silasdavis: yup, building on top of compojure is the recommended approach nowadays
11:37	silasdavis	so then I found a compojure/hiccup template, which was ok, then I read about moustache and enlive so tried all combinations therein
11:38	systemfault	Thanks
11:38	silasdavis	at some point I need to stop framework hoping and write some code :0
11:38	creese	yogthos: why do you use hiccup as the default?
11:38	silasdavis	pp*
11:38	Ember-	ooh dear
11:38	Ember-	4clojure admins here?
11:38	Ember-	504 Gateway Time-out
11:38	yogthos	creese: it doesn't require learning new syntax
11:38	silasdavis	Any thoughts on https://github.com/clojure-liberator/liberator ?
11:39	yogthos	creese: with something like enlive you have to learn how enlive works, with hiccup it's just standard clojure data structures, I figure it's more beginner friendly
11:39	creese	yoghos: for a designer, it does. a designer won't know clojure
11:39	yogthos	creese: arguably the designer shouldn't touch the markup and use css for styling
11:39	silasdavis	what I am building is a restful api, with some light templating for convenience, not sure whether I should work more directly with compojure or use that
11:40	yogthos	silasdavis: luminus primarily just sets up a good compojure template
11:40	silasdavis	yogthos: that's often pretty hard to do, particulary supporting many browsers...
11:40	creese	yogthos: I'll have to think on that. Most of the designers in our shop do markup
11:40	silasdavis	yogthos: that is what I've been after. I think I can use both if I wish
11:41	yogthos	creese: well the beauty of the whole scheme is that you can rip out hiccup very easily
11:41	yogthos	creese: just dump the dependency and use any templating you like, but my experience is that it is a good practice to not mix markup and design
11:41	jcrossley3	yogthos: was recommending java.jdbc a deliberate decision, over something like korma?
11:42	yogthos	jcrossley3: I always found java.jdbc to be simple enough to use, but if there's interest in korma I could certainly add it in as a module
11:43	yogthos	jcrossley3: korma did recently get a maintainer :)
11:43	silasdavis	i'm planning on using monger
11:43	jcrossley3	yogthos: indeed, a good thing
11:43	Seba51	yogthos: I am not sure, if the persistence layer should be included.
11:44	yogthos	Seba51: it's not by default
11:44	yogthos	Seba51: basically if you do lein new luminus myapp you get barebones compojure app
11:44	Seba51	We will end up in a big fat framework where people struggle to rip out things.
11:44	yogthos	Seba51: if you add stuff like +postgres you get the db dependencies basic setup
11:44	Seba51	I mean there is mongo/couchdb/jdbc/JPA/in memory dbs etc
11:45	yogthos	Seba51: for most apps you'll need some sort of persistence at some point though, so I think it's better to template that than to have to roll it from scratch every time
11:46	Seba51	There is a german diction: You cannot see the forest because there are so many trees.
11:46	yogthos	Seba51: all of those can be added in as separate modules, so if you want mongo you do +mongo, you want couch you do +couch, etc
11:46	Seba51	Every option will make other stuff less visible.
11:46	yogthos	Seba51: how so?
11:47	silasdavis	it's appealing to have a minimal base that actually works, particularly for somone like me who is learning the language and the frameworks at the same time
11:47	Seba51	If I introduce a framework having 500 options and you are a struggling learner, you have to look through all of them.
11:47	silasdavis	Seba51: it should just default to something like sqlite
11:47	yogthos	Seba51: well you can organize them logically and provide sane defaults right
11:48	yogthos	Seba51: options aren't there so that you have to use them, they're there to override the default behavior if it's not working for you
11:48	silasdavis	yogthos: does your server.clj essentially provide a standalone alternative to lein ring server?
11:48	yogthos	silasdavis: yup
11:49	yogthos	silasdavis: you can just do lein run with it
11:49	yogthos	silasdavis: also setup for heroku :)
11:49	silasdavis	I couldn't decide whether to separate handlers in to separate 'controller' files
11:50	silasdavis	not sure how much that pattern applies. I see you have a single handler to start with
11:50	yogthos	silasdavis: I find it's better to think in terms of routes
11:50	yogthos	silasdavis: for example say you have all your authentication routes such as register, login, logout
11:50	yogthos	silasdavis: I'd group those into a single namespace and then have all the logic around that workflow in one spot
11:51	Seba51	IMHO: less can sometimes be more. Because you will easily learn the frameworks and get a clear overview. But this is a matter of preference. There are many big frameworks like JEE, Ruby on Rails, which took the choice to provide all layers. Others are succesful to focus on something.
11:51	silasdavis	that's essentially an authentication controller I suppose
11:51	yogthos	silasdavis: right
11:52	yogthos	Seba51: I do want to keep it somewhat minimalistic, but I also want to capture all the common tasks
11:52	yogthos	Seba51: part of it is also to make it easy for beginners to get bootstrapped
11:53	silasdavis	Seba51: I quite like the loosely coupled clojure web stack from what I've seen, so I'm not sure you'd want something like RoR, but having a fully working, if not fully functional setup is very useful
11:53	yogthos	Seba51: it can be frustrating having to hunt for how to do this or that, or having to figure out which library is the one people use for example
11:53	silasdavis	for bootstrapping, yes
11:53	Seba51	I think you have been quite successful with this. ;-) (Leaving, children are waiting for dinner)
11:54	silasdavis	midn you I suppose you could leave persistence out of that. I just wanted to be able to do 'lein ring server' or similar and then start breaking things
11:54	yogthos	Seba51: thanks ;)
11:54	yogthos	silasdavis: that's the base template then :)
11:55	yogthos	silasdavis: if you just do lein new luminus myapp it won't put any persistence stuff in
11:55	yogthos	silasdavis: and it's ready to break out of the box ;)
11:57	silasdavis	actually it's not quite for me, I'm getting a class not found exeception for server
11:58	silasdavis	Exception in thread "main" java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: crosstalk.luminus.server
11:59	silasdavis	lein 2
12:00	yogthos	silasdavis: oh interesting
12:00	silasdavis	it's the dots
12:00	yogthos	how are you running it?
12:00	silasdavis	I called my app crosstalk.luminus
12:00	yogthos	ah
12:00	yogthos	yeah I think the app name has to be just letters
12:01	yogthos	silasdavis: I don't think the templating handles the dots, might be something to fix in lein :)
12:01	silasdavis	not sure how new works but it would be good if it could capture that, bit of an edge case though
12:01	hyPiRion	it's lein-newnew in that case
12:01	yogthos	yup
12:02	yogthos	yeah just tried it the template doesn't sanitize the .
12:02	hyPiRion	https://github.com/Raynes/lein-newnew/issues/57
12:02	hyPiRion	I suppose that's kind-of relevant
12:04	yogthos	yeah looks related
12:06	silasdavis	yogthos: will you keep the template update with the latest version of dependent libraries?
12:06	silasdavis	updated*
12:06	yogthos	silasdavis: that's the plan :)
12:06	yogthos	silasdavis: I'm kind of invested in it, as I use it for work as well
12:07	silasdavis	might want to see if you can get it linked from: http://www.webnoir.org/
12:07	silasdavis	there really should be a note on that site saying it is deprecated by the author
12:07	silasdavis	it's the top hit for 'clojure web framework'
12:07	yogthos	silasdavis: yeah next time Chris is on I could ask him about that
12:18	callen	yogthos: what?
12:19	yogthos	callen: hey what's up
12:19	callen	yogthos: you must've meant ibdknox, n/m
12:19	yogthos	callen: ah yes
12:19	yogthos	callen: about the noir being deprecated :)
12:20	callen	Right.
12:20	yogthos	silasdavis: callen: so this should help keep the template up to date :) https://gist.github.com/4445009
12:22	yogthos	can't really autoupdate them though, as there could be breaking stuff
12:27	silasdavis	you could always maintain an auto-synced testing branch
12:27	silasdavis	other people could track that if they wanted
12:27	yogthos	silasdavis: yeah might be an idea, if nothing else this way I can easily check if stuff looks out of date
12:28	yogthos	callen: oh yeah you want to add those env scripts?
12:28	callen	yogthos: no
12:30	ppppaul	can someone give me a suggestion as to how i would write a test that mocks out rabbitMQ?
12:32	ppppaul	anyone?
12:32	clojurebot	Just a heads up, you're more likely to get some help if you ask the question you really want the answer to, instead of "does anyone ..."
12:32	ppppaul	hmm
12:33	llasram	ppppaul: By using with-redefs...?
12:33	yogthos	ppppaul: what are you trying to do with ti?
12:33	technomancy	yeah, with-redefs
12:33	ppppaul	i understand that
12:33	ppppaul	i'm just not very experienced with doing async stuff with clojure
12:33	joegallo	ppppaul: are you using a library to interact with rabbitmq? if so, which one?
12:34	llasram	ppppaul: If you're testing something which depends on exactly how your rabbitmq communication is async, then I'd suggest not mocking rabbitmq
12:34	nDuff	...btw, anyone know why futures are dispatched to a bounded pool?
12:34	ppppaul	http://clojurerabbitmq.info/
12:34	llasram	nDuff: You do. It's the same as the send-off pool?
12:34	nDuff	llasram: Ahh; that makes sense, then.
12:35	nDuff	llasram: ...though I don't understand _why_, as futures aren't typically going to be IO-bound. To prevent deadlocks if they call other futures, I suppose?
12:37	llasram	ppppaul: If you're doing something straightforward which e.g. turns a sequence of received messages into a seq, then you can just mock there. Or do both for different tests!
12:37	llasram	nDuff: I definitely uses futures for IO-bound stuff
12:37	llasram	use, even
12:38	nDuff	Fair 'nuff.
12:38	svedubois	(New topic) I would like to print the origin of an image. With this line:
12:38	svedubois	(. image getOrigin)
12:38	svedubois	I obtain this:
12:38	svedubois	#<VectorDouble org.itk.simple.VectorDouble@295f7c4b>
12:38	svedubois	But the real origin is [0.283453, 0.283453, 0.283453]
12:38	svedubois	I obtain the origin from a long list using:
12:38	svedubois	(println image)
12:38	svedubois	How I can print the origin? And the origin in the x axe?
12:38	svedubois	The javadoc of Image http://jsfiddle.net/svedubois/MdPWz/
12:38	svedubois	The javadoc of the VectorUInt32 http://jsfiddle.net/svedubois/WBvEt/
12:39	nDuff	svedubois: The first thing I'd try, without looking at those docs: (vec (. image getOrigin) )
12:40	svedubois	nDuff: java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to convert: class org.itk.simple.VectorDouble to Object[]
12:40	nDuff	...yeah, gathered that looking at the docs. A "container class" that doesn't implement any Java standard container interfaces? WTF?
12:41	llasram	It's some sort of SWIG-generated cruft
12:43	svedubois	llasram: Yes it is swig generated
12:43	nDuff	svedubois: Huh. Well, you can extend Seqable to know how to handle it, if you want.
12:43	llasram	nDuff: Did Seqable become a protocol when I wasn't looking...?
12:45	nDuff	llasram: Oof -- my bad.
12:53	ppppaul	thanks llasram
12:54	svedubois	(defn seqable? [x] (instance? clojure.lang.Seqable x))
12:54	svedubois	(seqable? (. image getOrigin))
12:54	svedubois	;-> false
12:55	hyPiRion	eh
12:56	hyPiRion	,(instance? clojure.lang.Seqable "foobar")
12:56	clojurebot	false
12:56	hyPiRion	,(seq "foobar")
12:56	clojurebot	(\f \o \o \b \a ...)
12:57	mattyw	why does (lazy-seq (slurp "some-large-file")) take much less time than (slurp "some-large-file")?
12:58	hiredman	1/win 15
13:01	svedubois	(seqable? (seq (. image getOrigin)))
13:01	svedubois	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: org.itk.simple.VectorDouble
13:01	hyPiRion	,(macroexpand-1 '(lazy-seq (slurp "some-large-file")))
13:01	clojurebot	(new clojure.lang.LazySeq (fn* [] (slurp "some-large-file")))
13:01	nDuff	svedubois: I think you kinda' missed the point there.
13:02	svedubois	How I can print the origin and not the name vector ?
13:02	nDuff	svedubois: ...well, you need to write code that describes how to decode the object, since it's not a type that Clojure knows anything about, and it doesn't implement any common Java interfaces Clojure could use to know what it is.
13:02	hyPiRion	mattyw: That's your reason - whenever creating a lazy-seq, you're not evaluating the contents until needed
13:03	mattyw	so it really doesn't slurp the entire file until needed?
13:03	silasdavis	yogthos: not sure if the util.clj module belongs in luminus given that it's not used by the base pages and the functions are a bit arbitrary
13:04	hyPiRion	mattyw: exactly
13:04	mattyw	hyPiRion, that's cool! Thanks very much, I had a feeling that's what it was doing but wasn't too sure - it's cool
13:04	nDuff	svedubois: one approach would be to build a wrapper that extends ASeq.
13:05	nDuff	svedubois: ...but no matter what, you're going to be writing code.
13:05	hyPiRion	mattyw: you're welcome :)
13:05	svedubois	nDuff: Perhaps it is possible to decode the result #<VectorDouble org.itk.simple.VectorDouble@295f7c4b> with some method from the VectorDouble class http://jsfiddle.net/svedubois/RH5Mc/
13:05	nDuff	...
13:06	nDuff	svedubois: No.
13:06	yogthos	silasdavis: yeah that could probably go
13:06	nDuff	svedubois: No method in that class implements standard Java collection types.
13:06	nDuff	svedubois: You are going to have to write code. You.
13:06	nDuff	s/implements/returns something that implements/
13:06	svedubois	nDuff: With get(int i)?
13:07	jkkramer	svedubois: (mapv #(.get vd %) (range (.capacity vd)))
13:08	jkkramer	or .size or whatever
13:08	svedubois	jkkramer: Thanks, that's work
13:08	svedubois	(mapv #(.get (. image getOrigin) %) (range (.capacity (. image getOrigin))))
13:08	svedubois	;-> [0.28345292806625366 0.28345292806625366 0.28345292806625366]
13:13	marianoguerra	is there a way to build a promise passing a list of promises and get it resolved as soon as the first one is resolved?
13:14	yogthos	svedubois: you can make it a bit cleaner with .. notation (mapv #(.. image getOrigin (get %)) (range (.. image getOrigin capacity)))
13:16	silasdavis	yogthos: is the timbre dependency being used (is any logging set up)?
13:17	yogthos	silasdavis: yeah http://luminus.herokuapp.com/docs/logging.md
13:17	yogthos	it logs to standard out by default
13:18	technomancy	:use?
13:18	llasram	marianoguerra: Why not have just one promise?
13:20	silasdavis	yogthos: ah so should I add that manually?
13:21	yogthos	silasdavis: yeah sprinkle logs in as needed ;)
13:21	yogthos	technomancy: you mean in the example? :)
13:22	yogthos	technomancy: based it off the official docs ;)
13:24	silasdavis	If I wanted default debug logging everywhere do I need to add the use directive to every file?
13:24	marianoguerra	llasram: because the other function is returning a promise for each item, but I can modify that to use one I pass as an optional param, thanks :)
13:33	llasram	marianoguerra: Cool beans. Do be aware that different versions of Clojure react differently to re-`deliver`ing. The docstring still says it throws an exception, but starting with 1.[34]? it actually just silently does nothing
13:33	yogthos	silasdavis: as far as I know you do have to reference the libraries in each namespace
13:35	llasram	silasdavis: You can use the fully-qualified name for a var once it's been loaded, but it isn't good practice, as you can't know if it's been loaded yet unless you do so in each using namespace
13:35	ppppaul	i'm trying to use java.net.URI with (file) but it's giving me an exception saying that i don't have an absolute path
13:35	technomancy	can someone explain to me the point of git tags that have messages?
13:35	ppppaul	how do i get an absolute path from a rel path
13:37	joegallo	ppppaul: http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/io/File.html#getAbsolutePath%28%29
13:37	ppppaul	:D thanks
13:37	llasram	ppppaul: Or (.toURI (clojure.java.io/file "example.txt"))
13:38	svedubois	jkkramer: The Direction of an image is a matrix like this:
13:38	svedubois	1 0 0
13:38	svedubois	0 1 0
13:38	svedubois	0 0 1
13:38	svedubois	So I would like to obtain this vector so I write:
13:38	svedubois	(. image getDirection)
13:38	svedubois	;-> #<VectorDouble org.itk.simple.VectorDouble@6645add0>
13:38	svedubois	(mapv #(.. image getDirection (get %)) (range (.. image getOrigin capacity)))
13:38	svedubois	;-> [1.0 0.0 0.0]
13:38	svedubois	Is there any kind of function like mapv to obtain the matrix and not the vector?
13:38	hiredman	svedubois: read the docs for the library you are using
13:39	jkkramer	svedubois: see hiredman's response. if there's a way to get it out of the java api, you can use that to generate a clojure data structure
13:39	hiredman	org.itk.simple.VectorDouble is not a from clojure, so there are no clojure functions for doing anything with it, if you want to do anything with it you need to read the documentation
13:40	hornairs	anyone have any experience with giving ring an InputStream as a response body? i'm trying to get it to send data to the client as it gets written to the stream but it seems to wait until the stream is closed to send any
13:41	hornairs	thanks for any help anyone can give!
13:50	jkkramer	hornairs: in the past I've followed the pattern seen here: https://github.com/ring-clojure/ring/blob/master/ring-core/src/ring/util/io.clj#L10
13:50	jkkramer	i.e., create piped streams, start a thread to write to the output stream, return the input stream as the ring body
13:56	llasram	Weird though, it looks like if you're using ring's servlet wrapper, which is used by the jetty adapter, then it will read the entire stream before responding: https://github.com/ring-clojure/ring/blob/master/ring-servlet/src/ring/util/servlet.clj#L95
13:56	yedi	does a clojure map have the same time characteristics as a conventional hashmap? (with constant time access)
13:57	weavejester	llasram: What do you mean?
13:57	weavejester	yedi: In theory, no. In practise, yes.
13:58	weavejester	yedi: The Clojure map is effectively a tree of constant-time hash tables
13:58	yedi	even though clojure's immutable data structure implementation makes maps basically al inked list of other maps?
13:58	yedi	oh it's a tree?
13:58	weavejester	yedi: But the tree isn't that deep, so it's almost the same thing as a hashtable in practise
13:58	llasram	weavejester: Oh hey! I was have some similar issues to hornairs getting chunked encoding responses working recently, so just dove into the ring code
13:59	weavejester	llasram: Could you explain the problem in more detail?
14:00	hornairs	does io/copy block on a read until the stream is closed?
14:00	llasram	weavejester: Oh, I see -- the response object isn't returned. It pre-exists, so the response can begin as soon as one begins writing to the response's output stream
14:00	weavejester	hornairs: Yes, it's blocking I/O.
14:00	weavejester	llasram: Right
14:01	llasram	Ok, just injecting confusion then :-)
14:02	hornairs	llasram thanks for investigating though! my current symptom is an empty response with the content length header set to 0 which makes the client close the connection, so im not sure if my stream writes later ever make it out
14:05	adu_	technomancy: r7rs is better
14:31	andrewmcveigh	Using cemerik's friend, I want to keep track of all login attempts. Where would be the best place to do this? Create a wrapper fn for a workflow (currently using interactive-form)? Make my own workflow? Something in middleware?
14:34	gtrak	it depends on how folks log in... I ended up not using workflows at all, just a manual merge-authentication
14:36	gtrak	in a compojure route handler
14:37	andrewmcveigh	I'm currently using the interactive form workflow, and it's working pretty well for me at the moment, so ideally I'm not wanting to write too much code to deal with this.
14:38	gtrak	the docs say a workflow is a ring-handler except it may return an authentication map instead of a ring response, so a 'middleware' might do the trick
14:39	andrewmcveigh	I mean I could write a little middleware, but it seems like it would be trivial to have it in friend itself.
14:39	andrewmcveigh	hmm...
14:44	andrewmcveigh	gtrak: thanks for the input :), I'll think about it a bit more.
14:44	gtrak	no prob, I'm sure I'll need to learn workflows at some point :-)
14:48	ppppaul	if anyone here uses clutch, i would be very greatful to get a link with an example of (put-attachment) using a inputstream. :)
14:48	ppppaul	i'm looking at the source code and i can't seem to figure out how to use the function :(
14:59	muhoo	does 126Kb sound normal/accepted for :advanced compilation of a cljs hello world?
14:59	muhoo	also, is it normal for :advanced mode to pretty-print the output?
15:00	nDuff	muhoo: No, it's not.
15:00	nDuff	muhoo: Are you sure it's actually being run through Google Closure?
15:01	muhoo	nDuff: how would i determine that for certain?
15:01	Raynes	tpope: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14145425/vim-foreplay-is-really-slow-with-ruby-1-9-but-fast-with-ruby-1-8-on-windows
15:01	nDuff	muhoo: ...well, if it's pretty-printed, it's definitely not. :)
15:01	muhoo	right. here's the project: https://www.refheap.com/paste/8070
15:02	muhoo	nDuff: and here's the minimal i need to get it to 130K https://www.refheap.com/paste/8071
15:04	muhoo	pulling XhrIo out gets it down to 99k
15:06	tpope	Raynes: geez, tufflax is everywhere :p
15:06	Raynes	tpope: Did you see my comments on foreplay a little while ago? I pinged you, but I'm on the road so my internet probably dvanished.
15:06	Raynes	vanished*
15:07	tpope	Raynes: did not see them
15:07	Raynes	[13:28:14] <Raynes> tpope: vim-foreplay uses Ruby?
15:07	Raynes	[13:28:55] <Raynes> I don't understand how you do it, man. I wrote like 20 lines of Ruby for a Vim plugin for refheap and even I couldn't get it to work on OS X and half the time on Linux boxes. Vim hates Ruby. Never had problems with Python support.
15:07	muhoo	so the problem appears to be, no matter what i do, either google closure or lein-cljsbuild insists, despite all reason, to pretty print the output
15:08	callen	Raynes: you know the Red Bull Flugtag?
15:08	Raynes	No.
15:08	callen	Raynes: google it for two seconds so I can make the reference.
15:08	muhoo	it's definitely munging variable and object names though, so that part is working
15:08	tpope	Raynes: it does hate ruby, and I've had other issues with python
15:09	tpope	Raynes: I did the absolute minimum necessary. just a socket connection
15:09	tpope	Raynes: and I fall back to shelling out, if necessary
15:09	Raynes	callen: Got it.
15:09	Raynes	tpope: You're a good person.
15:09	callen	Raynes: the "vehicles" you see in the Flugtag? That's most Ruby software I've run into.
15:10	tpope	my bencode implemention is pure viml
15:10	Raynes	Yay language bashing!
15:10	tpope	I'm fine with ruby, just not the vim interface to it
15:11	tpope	plus, it's basically a money printing machine
15:15	muhoo	yay, :pretty-print false is required, not default. ok, no prob. hello world now 72k
15:22	dnolen	muhoo: yeah, I will say I don't think I've ever seen trivial CLJS programs smaller than 30k-40k after adv. compilation.
15:23	systemfault	Not that bad.
15:24	systemfault	You will get about 50% compression with gzip
15:24	systemfault	So a 20k file isn't that bad.
15:25	ejackson	dnolen: don't tempt me with your devil words !
15:25	callen	isn't that 2/3s the size of Google's entire landing page?
15:26	systemfault	You're speaking as if there was a lot of content on it...
15:26	systemfault	An empty page is even lighter than google.com
15:26	callen	the ideal Zen state.
15:27	ibdknox	there needs to be a separable advanced compilation mode
15:28	ibdknox	then this could be largely done away with
15:29	ibdknox	make cljs.core and the goog.* libs a CDN'd common dependency and call it a day
15:29	ibdknox	first load you eat the 20k gzipped
15:29	ibdknox	any cljs site thereafter? the tiny bit of code actually related to your project is all you'll eat
15:31	ibdknox	we actually need to do something like that for nodejs module sharing anyways.
15:40	Raynes	ibdknox: Can I enable paren matching in lt?
15:44	TimMc	&(Double/parseDouble "-Infinity")
15:44	lazybot	⇒ -Infinity
15:44	zilti	What can be the reasons for a "IllegalArgumentException: Parameter declaration when-not should be a vector"? I have that in one of my namespaces, and only there. Even when creating a (defn foo (when-not false 1)) I get that message. I eval'd each form separately and only get the message at the foo fn.
15:45	TimMc	zilti: It's saying that it's expecting a parameter declaration.
15:46	TimMc	and that it should be a vector, but instead it has this "when-not" thing.
15:46	ttimvisher	zilti: you need to add a parameter declaration, like: (defn foo [] (when-not
15:46	ttimvisher	false 1))
15:47	zilti	ttimvisher: Yes, sure. It does not change anything. Hm... Maybe I should restart the REPL, could help.
15:48	ttimvisher	zilti: you shouldn't have to but maybe
15:48	ttimvisher	i just did it at the REPL here
15:49	zilti	Well it helped.
15:49	ibdknox	Raynes: it should be enabled already
15:51	ttimvisher	zilti: rockin
15:52	ibdknox	Raynes: depending on the theme, it may not be particularly visible, at some point I need to go through all the themes and set the match colors
15:55	Raynes	ibdknox: In that case, my theme doesn't work with it.
15:55	Raynes	ibdknox: Sorry for the suckage. ;)
15:56	ibdknox	haha
15:56	ibdknox	Raynes: I'll take a look. I'm working on a major refactor and a big set of experience improvements right now. 0.3.0 is going to be an awesome release. :)
15:57	Raynes	ibdknox: Refactor? How many times are you going to rewrite that thing?
15:57	ibdknox	same way of writing it, just fixing some of the stupid mistakes as I was learning how this methodology would work
15:58	nDuff	Whoa.
15:58	hyPiRion	(constantly :refactoring)
15:58	nDuff	Some shiny stuff going on in Incanter 1.5.
15:59	llasram	I just got the name: in-cant-R
15:59	hyPiRion	more like I-can't-R
16:00	ibdknox	nDuff: like what?
16:00	ejackson	blas backend for the matrix stuff !
16:01	ejackson	woot
16:01	llasram	Doesn't it already use parallel colt, which can use a blas backend if available?
16:02	ejackson	sortof. The idea was to build incanter w/o native deps.
16:03	ejackson	so I'm not sure how easy it would be to get the PC going the native BLAS.
16:03	llasram	Ah, gotcha
16:03	ejackson	the 1.5 stuff uses jblas, which keeps most of the numeric ops in java
16:03	ejackson	but farms out any non-linear time stuff (inversion etc) to fortran
16:04	llasram	Neat!
16:04	ejackson	llasram: also, the name is a play on a Neal Stephenson novel
16:04	ejackson	Anathem :)
16:05	yogthos	that was a good book :)
16:05	ejackson	indeed !
16:05	yogthos	anybody read his latest one?
16:05	ejackson	meh
16:05	yogthos	reamde?
16:05	yogthos	not as epic?
16:06	ejackson	too epic, not as brilliant
16:06	yogthos	ah
16:06	yogthos	reading this right now http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarantine_(Greg_Egan_novel) it's fantastic :)
16:06	yogthos	in a similar headspace as anathem
16:06	ejackson	thanks.
16:13	technomancy	bbloom: hey, did you want to meet up for dinner before seajure?
16:13	technomancy	my other friend isn't going to mke it
16:13	technomancy	make
16:20	TimMc	"Other friend"? HEY LOOK THIS GUY HAS > 1 FRIENDS
16:20	Seba51	Can I do something like (let [{:keys [[x :as foo] y] } point] to extract key :x but bind it to foo?
16:21	technomancy	heh
16:21	pjstadig	technomancy: you know i'd totally do dinner with you if I didn't live 3,000 mi away
16:21	hyPiRion	TimMc: Other clojure friend within driving distance
16:21	technomancy	pjstadig: it's mongolian BBQ; totally worth the trip.
16:21	amalloy	Seba51: yes, but not with the keys shorthand
16:22	TimMc	,(let [{foo :x, y :y} {:x 1 :y 2}] [foo y])
16:22	clojurebot	[1 2]
16:23	Seba51	Thanks, I knew the other but are still learning ;-)
16:23	hyPiRion	,(let [{foo :x, :keys [y]} {:x 1, :y 2}] [foo y])
16:23	clojurebot	[1 2]
16:23	dhm_	technomancy: what place? not that i would crash, just love mongolian bbq
16:24	Seba51	This community is amazing. Thankfully, I do not have to pay a beer for every response. :-D
16:24	ihodes	actually, Seba51, you do
16:24	technomancy	dhm_: Ruzhen on University Way: https://plus.google.com/101916490585616946067/about?gl=us&hl=en
16:24	dhm_	technomancy: cool, thx
16:24	TimMc	ihodes: Incorrect, I accept chocolate as an alternative.
16:25	technomancy	dhm_: happy to have you at seajure if you're local
16:25	ihodes	TimMc: chocolate stout. i understand.
16:25	dhm_	technomancy: thanks, been a few times and loved it (darren)
16:25	technomancy	ah, cool
16:26	hornairs	i am struggling to get streamed output working with ring, if anyone has any pointers I would super appreciate it! https://gist.github.com/4447300
16:27	hornairs	i get a 0 content length output immediately instead of seeing my two stream writes
16:28	justincampbell	is there a way to async/background something in clojure?
16:28	hyPiRion	agents?
16:28	justincampbell	like, i just want a form that executes and returns right away
16:28	justincampbell	maybe?
16:28	justincampbell	ill look them up
16:28	technomancy	probably futures for that
16:30	justincampbell	(future …) is perfect, thanks!
16:30	amalloy	huh, i didn't know about ring.util.io/piped-input-stream
16:31	TimMc	&(nth (nth (destructure '[{:keys {b a}} 1]) 5) 2)
16:31	lazybot	⇒ :[b a]
16:31	TimMc	I'm not really sure how it came up with that.
16:32	TimMc	I suppose ##(-> '{b a} first str keyword).
16:32	lazybot	⇒ :[b a]
16:32	amalloy	hornairs: i bet the outputstream doesn't have a .write(String) method
16:32	amalloy	output streams generally don't
16:33	hornairs	amalloy: wouldn't i get loud complaints if that was the case?
16:34	amalloy	yes and no. you'll get an exception in the thread where that writing is happening
16:34	llasram	(inc amolloy)
16:34	lazybot	⇒ 1
16:34	llasram	hah
16:34	llasram	(inc amalloy)
16:34	lazybot	⇒ 38
16:34	amalloy	and exceptions on another thread vanish into nothing unless you ask for them
16:34	hornairs	do you have to do something special to get exceptions from threads spawned by futures?
16:34	hornairs	aha!
16:34	gtrak	hornairs: when you deref it, the exception will propagate
16:35	amalloy	he doesn't have access to the future object, though. it's created and managed by someone else
16:35	gtrak	oh, nevermind
16:36	hornairs	maybe ill do my own try/catch and log em?
16:38	hornairs	thanks amalloy, that was silly of me
16:46	mpan	is there an easier way to have a function that takes either [x y z] or [x z] than to specify it as [& xs] and counting them?
16:47	dhm_	mpan: you can supply an ([x z] ...) version and invoke the ([x y z] ...) version with the default value of z
16:49	mpan	does just fn support that? or is that something that defn does for you?
16:49	terom	mpan: (defn f ([x z] ...) ([x y z] ...))
16:50	dhm_	yeah what terom said
16:50	hornairs	so I still can't get ring to flush the first part of the stream, it seems to wait until the stream has been closed to send anything to the client https://gist.github.com/4447544#file-core-clj
16:50	terom	mpan: yeah, fn supports it also
16:50	mpan	thank you all
16:50	hornairs	i have a sneaking suspicion it might be because ring wants to calculate the length of the response for the Content-Length header
16:51	nDuff	ibdknox: Matrix types (via clatrix) that are both fast (native BLAS types) and seq-able.
16:53	hiredman	hornairs: piped streams have a buffer size, your test almost certainly doesn't fill the buffer
16:53	hiredman	also your paren placement is bad
16:55	Seba51	Green bar, beer and chocolate is fine. Are there any Clojure conferences where people meet?
16:58	TimMc	ihodes: I'd prefer a stout chocolate, really.
17:02	nDuff	Seba51: there's the conj and Clojure/west every year.
17:15	loganlinn	are there any good open-source tools for inspecting/visualizing JVM stats?
17:16	nDuff	Hrm. Free-of-cost, maybe, but nothing open-source that I know of.
17:16	loganlinn	free will do
17:16	nDuff	Free for production use, or is free for development use good enough?
17:17	nDuff	If the latter, I've been pretty happy with the tools that ship with JRockit
17:17	loganlinn	development use for now
17:17	loganlinn	ok, cool. ill check it out — thanks!
17:18	nDuff	...it at least used to be that JRockit's advanced tooling was free-to-use with the restriction that it would require JVM shutdown after 30 minutes to prevent production use without buying a license.
17:18	yogthos	loganlinn: have you tried jvisualvm?
17:18	nDuff	(production use of the advanced tooling, that is, not the base VM)
17:19	mich2	VisualVM?
17:19	yogthos	mich2: yeah, I've used it for profiling before
17:20	yogthos	mich2: it can check threads, memory usage, etc. can also connect to remote vms which is nice
17:20	mich2	Ah my mistake
17:33	hiredman	ob
17:35	zoldar	Hello. Is there a way in Clojurescript to mock a function (from a different, required namespace) in a away similar to with-redefs-fn?
17:38	loganlinn	mich2: VisualVM is exactly what I wanted. Thanks
17:39	jjl__	what's best practice on config files for web apps? obviously i need to have something outside of the jar file. but shouldn't i have some sort of hook that installs a default one if there isn't one? and where should i place it?
17:40	XPherior	jjl__, Are you using Immutant, Noir, or something like that?
17:41	jjl__	no, i'm using compojure
17:41	hiredman	https://github.com/sonian/carica
17:41	hiredman	merges maps of configurations found on the classpath
17:42	jjl__	sorry, i'm quite new to jvm things. i thought the classpath was purely for code?
17:43	XPherior	Classpath can be for any files.
17:45	jjl__	sorry if i sound a bit thick, but how do i reference non-code files that are on the classpath?
17:46	weavejester	jjl__: clojure.java.io/resource
17:46	XPherior	jjl__, I don't have a lot of experience with this either. But seems like either through Carica (above) or Java resources.
17:46	XPherior	Yeah, that one. ^
17:47	weavejester	Be aware that resources do not have a beginning /
17:47	weavejester	So if you have a file resources/public/css/foo.css
17:47	weavejester	You'd get the URL of it with (io/resource "public/css/foo.css")
17:48	weavejester	Which you could then read with clojure.core/slurp or any one of the clojure.java.io functions
17:48	jjl__	okay, so that could be in my jar file or if i had an entry in the classpath that was just a directory, relative to there too?
17:49	jjl__	and carioca would merge them so i could provide defaults?
17:49	weavejester	Right
17:49	jjl__	sweet
17:49	jjl__	is this a typical way of doing config in jvm languages?
17:49	weavejester	Well……..
17:49	jjl__	(i come from a dynamic language background, so much of this is new to me)
17:50	weavejester	Some Java libraries, particularly older ones, tend to favor XML
17:50	weavejester	Which you obviously want to avoid ;)
17:50	jjl__	like the plauge
17:50	jjl__	plague(
17:50	arrdem	hahaha
17:51	jjl__	i've yet to find a satisfactory xml library in any language. i suspect it's not possible
17:51	weavejester	The Heroku guys put forward a suggestion at 12factor.net that server-side apps should be configured via environment variables
17:51	XPherior	It's not the library that's the problem, jjl__.
17:51	weavejester	Which is the approach I currently favour
17:51	jjl__	weavejester: haha. and when you have a complex app that has nested sections, that's going to go down well
17:52	nDuff	jjl__: I'm pretty happy with lxml.etree (Python).
17:52	weavejester	jjl__: True, but it does force you to simplify your config
17:52	jjl__	nDuff: thanks for the pointer. if i have to do xml stuff in python again, i'll take a look. i think i used one of the core things last time
17:52	nDuff	...not that human-generated configuration is anywhere remotely close to XML's sweet spot...
17:53	weavejester	Another option is to look for a config file. I guess really it depends on what your app does.
17:53	nDuff	jjl__: FYI, the Python standard library now contains ElementTree, which lxml.etree is an extension of.
17:53	weavejester	Terminal apps usually have config files in their home directory
17:53	jjl__	nDuff: elementtree rings a bell
17:53	nDuff	jjl__: ...but yes, the several other options in core besides that one all suck.
17:53	weavejester	Server side apps often have an argument or environment variable you can set to point to a config file
17:53	jjl__	nDuff: i think elementtree is what i ended up using last time
17:53	nDuff	jjl__: ...and ElementTree isn't that great either (doesn't support real XPath, for instance)
17:54	jjl__	nDuff: my needs were simple. xpath has a habit of complicating things unless the xml is silly complex
17:54	nDuff	Eh? XPath is simple. XQuery is where things get interesting. :)
17:55	jjl__	xpath is sufficiently complicated. most of the time i'd be happier writing css-style selectors, which some libraries handily provide
17:55	weavejester	In Clojure zippers are a more generic alternative to XPath
17:55	nDuff	jjl__: ...yes, lxml.etree does provide css-style selectors.
17:55	jjl__	i don't do much python anymore, but i'll note it down. thanks for the tip
17:56	jjl__	i have a more obscure question too...
17:56	nDuff	weavejester: I'm not sure how I feel about zippers. XQuery and XPath are amenable to high-performance processing with pre-indexed documents. Zippers feel like they preclude that.
17:56	weavejester	nDuff: I guess it depends on how big your XML document is.
17:57	weavejester	nDuff: If it's large enough that you need a lot of indexing, then maybe you need to load it into a proper DB
17:57	nDuff	weavejester: well, yes. I'm talking about this in the context of an XML-aware database. :)
17:57	jjl__	i'm building a webapp i want to be extensible with plugins. i'm assuming most users of it won't be clueful enough with clojure and will want something more java-esque, but i want to preserve all the handy thread local stuff clojure does for me and manage access to shared data with STM. as a result i'm going to write a compiler for some other language that compiles down into clojure, and then turn that into class files. is there some nice api for driving the cloj
17:57	nDuff	s/database/datastore/
17:58	nDuff	weavejester: ...or, to clarify: I'd rather be writing my queries in a way that can port over to a high-performance datastore.
17:58	nDuff	weavejester: ...given that I do actually have and use one. :)
17:59	weavejester	jjl__: Why not just create a Java interface that talks to Clojure underneath?
17:59	weavejester	nDuff: I wonder how easily one could turn Datomic into an an XML indexer
18:00	jjl__	weavejester: hrm. i'm wondering what i'd need to provide through that and if it may turn out to be a lot of work. i presume that would allow people to use scala etc. as well though?
18:00	nDuff	weavejester: nod; it's an interesting thought.
18:01	jjl__	weavejester: i'm guessing i'd have to make wrappers over everything i wanted them to have access to?
18:01	weavejester	jjl__: Sure. I mean, it depends on what you want to do, but every (most?) JVM languages can create an object that implements an interface.
18:02	nDuff	...even Jython can do that, and its integration with the JVM's object system is otherwise awful.
18:02	weavejester	jjl__: Yes… but are there that many things you need to do that for?
18:03	jjl__	weavejester: it's going to be a big app. but i suppose it's worth the effort
18:03	weavejester	jjl__: Another option is have the plugins interact through a web service.
18:03	jjl__	that sounds terribly inefficient. not at all something i'd do in a dynamic language
18:04	jjl__	i suppose i have the luxury in that case of mandating people use that language though, hrm...
18:05	weavejester	jjl__: If you look at apps for systems like Facebook, that's how they operate.
18:05	jjl__	part of the thing is that i'm designing it so that the core of the application is utterly minimal and most of the code that ships with the app is distributed in plugins as well
18:05	kovas	is there a good clojure lib for manipulating sql schemas? looking at lobos, wondering if theres others
18:05	jjl__	facebook doesn't exactly have a choice :)
18:06	jjl__	kovas: lobos + korma was the best i found. but it seems to lack a lot of things :/
18:06	kovas	jjl__: anything in particular that sucks?
18:06	jjl__	well, i wanted to use postgis columns and i couldn't figure out how
18:07	kovas	jjl__: ok. I'm gonna be working with mysql so maybe ill be ok
18:07	jjl__	mysql is much less complicated in general
18:07	nDuff	shudder
18:08	XPherior	Haha
18:08	XPherior	War story, nDuff!
18:09	jjl__	i can go several steps further than that, but this isn't really a channel for hating on poor technology is it?
18:09	kovas	sometimes we gotta do data analysis on the databases we have, not the ones we want..
18:09	nDuff	XPherior: Which one do you want? My MySQL war stories go back to the one in the mid-90s about a car dealership running their finances with no relational integrity...
18:10	jjl__	but mysql is nothing compared to what people try and make it do that it can't ;)
18:10	XPherior	nDuff: Any of them result in limb loss?
18:10	nDuff	XPherior: None that good, no.
18:11	snowylike	but i want to hear about that car dealership
18:11	jjl__	nDuff: that's boring compared to the 3 table database i used to work with. an EAV store with values in blob columns. that could be foreign keys. and 3 joins sent it into exponential time
18:11	XPherior	nDuff: You're not a real software engineer until you've lost a digit or two on the job.
18:11	snowylike	XPherior: does RSI count as limb loss?
18:12	XPherior	Only if it turned blue, snowylike
18:12	yogthos	my question is why use mysql when postgres exists
18:12	yogthos	:)
18:12	jjl__	yogthos: and a good one to ask the boss when they insist on mysql
18:12	ibdknox	I've seen some "amazing" things done with mysql databases lol
18:12	yogthos	jjl__: ha!
18:13	jjl__	next week i shall mostly be fixing mysql performance problems ;)
18:14	ibdknox	once upon a time ago, I was asked to fix the slowness of a company's PHP website. Turns out they were executing over 2400 queries per page load.. these queries joined on regular expressions
18:14	technomancy	kovas: I would avoid lobos; they appear to be working under the misconception that it's possible to abstract over the differences between DBs
18:14	yogthos	oh my
18:14	kovas	technomancy: yeah, so it seems :/
18:14	technomancy	clojurebot: clojars migrations?
18:14	clojurebot	next-gen clojars is a proposal for a revamped Clojars repository with higher standards: http://groups.google.com/group/clojars-maintainers/browse_thread/thread/77c1cd77e478bb0f
18:14	XPherior	technomancy: It's gotta get solved someday.
18:14	arrdem	technomancy: idk... I managed to abstract away my transiton from ibdknox's SimpleDB to Mongo...
18:15	kovas	all i want is to get the mysql schema as a reasonable clojure data structure.
18:15	jjl__	technomancy: for the most part, it is. DBIx::Class (perl) manages except for really complex stuff
18:15	nDuff	ibdknox: Been there, done that... though it was Django, not PHP.
18:15	technomancy	arrdem: it's possible, for trivial programs
18:15	technomancy	and lucky programs
18:15	technomancy	kovas: I recommend just writing the SQL
18:15	technomancy	here's what clojars does: this is
18:15	technomancy	err--https://github.com/ato/clojars-web/blob/master/src/clojars/db/migrate.clj
18:15	jjl__	ibdknox: how about some php that generated 101 queries and unioned them together?
18:15	Foxboron	technomancy, any plans fixing lein for windows?
18:16	technomancy	Foxboron: not really, but I'll take a patch
18:16	kovas	technomancy: thnx
18:16	Foxboron	technomancy, but batch is so ugly ._.
18:16	ibdknox	jjl__: heh I've seen it all ;) My PHP days were darker times.
18:16	yogthos	haha I worked on the opposite end of the stick from that, had an overactive oracle dba once :)
18:16	jjl__	ibdknox: apparently i have some queries that do full table scans to look at next week. that should be fun
18:16	yogthos	half the application lived in stored procs
18:17	yogthos	which he managed with notepad more or less
18:17	ibdknox	lol
18:17	yogthos	no source control nothing
18:17	yogthos	it was fast, but completely and utterly unmaintainable by anybody but him
18:17	technomancy	clojurebot: clojars migration is done simply with a bunch of sql defns in a single namespace: https://github.com/ato/clojars-web/blob/master/src/clojars/db/migrate.clj
18:17	clojurebot	Ok.
18:17	ibdknox	job security!
18:17	yogthos	indeed :)
18:17	yogthos	maybe he knew what he was doing after all :P
18:18	ibdknox	the most ridiculous db I worked with was for wines
18:18	jjl__	you'd be surprised how often "write more stored procs" is a good answer
18:18	ibdknox	to my knowledge it was the single largest data collection on wines in existence
18:18	jjl__	particularly if you have a lot of apps in different technologies
18:18	yogthos	jjl__: oh stored procs can be very handy
18:19	ibdknox	to get the information for a single wine its entirety required a query that was a couple pages long
18:19	yogthos	jjl__: but there is a line you cross somewhere when they start outgrowing the actual application :)
18:19	ibdknox	in its*
18:19	jjl__	if you've got complex validation logic, for example, across several apps, sometimes it's good to get the database to do it
18:20	yogthos	ibdknox: people do some weird stuff with dbs ;)
18:20	jjl__	that said, these days i'd probably shove a webservice in front of it instead
18:20	yogthos	jjl__: that would be my preference as well, db should worry about the actual storage
18:20	zoldar	sorry for repeating myself, but how to approach function mocking in cljs? I've seen somebody using goog.testing/createMethodMock, however I couldn't sort out how it actually works.
18:21	yogthos	jjl__: it also makes it pretty tricky to figure out what the actual business logic is when some of it is sprinkled in db and some in the app
18:21	mpan	is it possible to evaluate arbitrary clojurescript determined at runtime? does the compiler being in clojure prevent that?
18:21	jjl__	yogthos: you also have to love when the only place the stored procs are is the database and you can't see the code
18:22	mpan	as in, I would like the user to specify some code at runtime, and then eval that
18:22	callen	ibdknox: why was it so complicated?
18:22	ibdknox	callen: outsourced to a team of idiots
18:23	jjl__	mpan: i don't know if it's the 'right' answer as i don't use clojurescript, but you could ship the compiler source?
18:23	ibdknox	their naming strategy was comical
18:23	ibdknox	there were 3 wine tables
18:23	ibdknox	Wine
18:23	mpan	basically, my use-case is that I want people to be able to just run this in their browser without setup
18:23	ibdknox	_wine and __Wine
18:23	mpan	preferably without resorting to a server-side compiling service
18:24	callen	ibdknox: Right. right. Figures.
18:24	yogthos	ibdknox: this is shaping up great already :P
18:24	jjl__	ibdknox: a crappy attempt at sharding?
18:24	mpan	(because honestly I'm not even sure how that would fit in)
18:24	yogthos	ibdknox: does the number of underscores signify some perverted naming convention?
18:24	jjl__	mpan: compile clojurescript with clojurescript?
18:25	ibdknox	yogthos: that would be giving them too much credit. I'm pretty sure this was their attempt at doing something like wine2 and wine3
18:25	yogthos	ibdknox: brilliant!
18:25	ibdknox	all the tables contained wildly different information and used different kinds of keys
18:25	mpan	wait, you can compile cljs in cljs now?
18:25	ibdknox	mpan: not reliably
18:26	ibdknox	mpan: and no, there's no way to do what you want (yet) without a server
18:26	ibdknox	kanaka is the closest
18:26	ibdknox	mpan: https://github.com/kanaka/clojurescript
18:26	mpan	thanks
18:27	ibdknox	but that has a good ways to go
18:27	mpan	so, my specific use-case is to create something resembling netlogo ( http://ccl.northwestern.edu/netlogo/ ) but on top of a general-purpose language
18:27	ibdknox	yogthos: but yeah, just joining those 3 tables together required the use of 4 other tables.
18:28	mpan	major part of that is to eval user-supplied code to determine what the turtles do
18:28	ibdknox	mpan: just use the compiler as a service
18:28	yogthos	ibdknox: that's something alright, I imagine that ran at blazing speeds :)
18:28	zilti	"Today I learned that a function called init without any arguments gets executed each time the ns gets required or used."
18:29	mpan	is that doable even if I need the user-supplied code to be able to reference code from the library and code supplied earlier?
18:29	ibdknox	mpan: yeah, that's fine
18:29	mpan	is himera the example I should be looking at?
18:29	ibdknox	mpan: as long as the compiled JS is already on the client it won't matter
18:30	ibdknox	mpan: you can only do simple optimization for that though
18:30	ibdknox	mpan: himera is a good start, yeah
18:30	mpan	that's great
18:30	mpan	thanks!
18:31	ibdknox	yogthos: if I remember correctly a full query joined on 25 tables. So yeah - blazing ;)
18:31	yogthos	ibdknox: rofl
18:31	ibdknox	this is when I learned to hate SQL
18:32	kovas	i think i started hating SQL when i learned of the join table concept
18:32	ibdknox	thousands upon thousands of lines were devoted just to handwritten SQL queries (ORM's didn't really exist then)
18:32	ibdknox	even if they had, I don't think they could've handled what we were doing lol
18:33	yogthos	yeah that's one thing that happens with orms often, you start out with small data sets and it's all peachy
18:33	yogthos	then you get close to production time and start testing with some real data and find out the the orm generated queries are... not optimal
18:33	ibdknox	I've written 3 :) and then whatever Korma is
18:33	yogthos	my primary experience is with hibernate
18:34	yogthos	the things I've seen done with hibernate shudder
18:34	ibdknox	haha
18:34	ibdknox	Korma was intentionally not an ORM
18:34	ibdknox	rather an efficient means to generate SQL
18:34	yogthos	yup
18:34	ibdknox	the ORM abstraction always broke down
18:34	nDuff	Eh.
18:35	yogthos	well there's a fundamental mismatch between object trees and relational tables
18:35	nDuff	...mind you, that's the _only_ ORM I've ever been happy with
18:35	jjl__	ibdknox: oh korma is yours?
18:35	nDuff	...and it has a very extensive "SQL builder" layer that has nothing to do with object mapping...
18:35	nDuff	...and it's a huge, insane amount of code and trouble...
18:35	nDuff	but it's an existence proof that such things can be done well, even so.
18:36	nDuff	(err, trouble for its maintainer, who does a very good job)
18:36	ibdknox	jjl__: originally, Alex Baranosky is driving it now
18:36	jjl__	nDuff: there's an awesome new perl library that does this properly. any day now
18:36	nDuff	jjl__: You expect _anything_ to be well-designed in Perl?!
18:37	jjl__	nDuff: quite a lot of things are actually. just nothing older than the last 5 years.
18:37	jjl__	nDuff: perl has the best ORM of any language i've worked with
18:38	jjl__	nDuff: and it now has a library for implementing a CLOS-like object system
18:41	ibdknox	it's a different language these days
18:41	jjl__	it's a really nice language these days
18:43	jjl__	if it weren't for silly enormous scaling problems on the project i'm working on, i wouldn't have bothered learning clojure and just done it all in perl
18:43	technomancy	good perl people do have a way of just quietly getting stuff done
18:45	jjl__	cpan is fantastic too. there are only two areas where the libraries are better in other languages IMO (rabbitmq and soap client). both of which are better in python (libamqp, suds)
18:45	technomancy	heh; suds
18:45	snowylike	perl has changed much since they started work on perl 6
18:45	jjl__	perl 6 has been great for getting new shiny into perl 5
18:45	nDuff	Is suds actually decent these days?
18:46	jjl__	but i do hope they never finish it
18:46	snowylike	why?
18:46	clojurebot	snowylike: because you can't handle the truth!
18:46	snowylike	now that was not the response i expected
18:46	jjl__	perl6 made the same mistakes perl5 did, only a thousand times worse
18:46	snowylike	for example?
18:47	nDuff	Isn't perl6 the one that finally has a formally defined syntax?
18:47	jjl__	minor things can make big differences
18:47	jjl__	groovy has done this to some extent as well
18:47	nDuff	I mean, that's a hard prerequisite before I consider a language worth even thinking about potentially learning.
18:47	nDuff	(and became one after prior experience with Perl).
18:47	jjl__	in practice it's not a big problem, actually
18:47	jjl__	it was a major problem when me and a friend tried to port perl to the jvm
18:48	snowylike	oh, well
18:48	jjl__	but other than that, it's of no consequence
18:48	snowylike	perl and the jvm aren't on friendly terms
18:48	jjl__	nDuff: much better these days
18:49	jjl__	nDuff: they've really sorted out the compile process. in fact installing a new perl these days is so easy it's been automated by perlbrew
18:52	nDuff	jjl__: As of which releases? I'm seeing reports as recent as 5.14.2 that miniperl is still used to run tests that are intended to apply to the target on the host.
18:53	jjl__	nDuff: hrm, that's possible. i'm not a core hacker. i know around 5.15 they made some changes to reduce the amount that miniperl did
18:53	jjl__	nDuff: irc.perl.org#p5p would be the place to ask
18:53	aphyr	So... Incanter's (scatter-plot) is a macro which takes variable argument options, like (scatter-plot ... :x-label "hi" :y-label "sup")
18:54	SegFaultAX	Does riemann use an in-memory database for its index?
18:54	SegFaultAX	Or does it use eg redis as the storage mechanism?
18:54	aphyr	So if I want to call scatter-plot and change those options, am I forced to use a macro as well?
18:54	aphyr	obviously you can't apply a macro :(
18:54	aphyr	SegFaultAX: the index protocol is pluggable, default implementation is Cliff Click's nonblockinghashmap
18:56	hiredman	aphyr: have you looked at using jfreecharts directly? incanter's charting is a fairly limiting wrapper around it
18:56	gtrak	has anyone ever done parallel builds in clojure?
18:56	aphyr	Yeah I probably should, just... so much boilerplate
18:57	aphyr	SegFaultAX: if you wanted to use redis it is possible, though you might have an interesting time compiling queries for it.
18:57	aphyr	Maintaining inverted index consistency can be tricky
18:58	hiredman	aphyr: https://gist.github.com/3949532 is an example of creating a live (updating) time series chart, which isn't too bad
18:59	aphyr	Thanks for the sample, hiredman. Pretty close to dropping incanter and just doing that.
19:00	hiredman	I had trouble getting incanter to create a time series chart and just ended up having unix timestamps as numbers on the axis instead of dates
19:00	SegFaultAX	aphyr: Is Riemann applicable to generic real-time analytics? statsd/gaug.es/etc.
19:00	aphyr	SegFaultAX: short answer, yes. If you want to talk over in #riemann I can explain at a little more length.
19:03	jjl__	any reason why i should stick with lein 1.x instead of upgrading to 2?
19:04	hyPiRion	jjl__: There's no reason to no move to lein2 now
19:04	technomancy	jjl__: none whatsoever
19:04	hyPiRion	not moce*
19:11	tufflax	jjl__: I like to have both, save lein 1.7 as `lein1` because some projects out there use it
19:12	jjl__	technomancy: is there a reason i shouldn't bump lein to 2.x in homebrew?
19:12	technomancy	jjl__: I don't know much about homebrew. there is still one breaking change in the plan before the final 2.0.0 release
19:12	jjl__	aha
19:12	jjl__	it has a devel version available. (2.0.0-preview10)
19:12	technomancy	https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/issues/241
19:13	hyPiRion	technomancy: Actually, there's two
19:13	technomancy	hyPiRion: remind me of the other?
19:13	hyPiRion	https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/issues/885
19:14	hyPiRion	You cannot upload the jar without fixing that one
19:14	technomancy	ah, true
19:14	hyPiRion	Which means bash script updates etc.
19:14	technomancy	though it shouldn't be relevant to downstream packagers
19:15	hyPiRion	True
19:15	jjl__	i'll leave it for now
19:16	technomancy	I hope to get preview11 out soon, but I'm stuck debugging a segfault in the horrible sqlite jdbc drivers that clojars is using
19:19	TimMc	technomancy: xerial?
19:19	technomancy	TimMc: ayup
19:20	technomancy	https://github.com/ato/clojars-web/issues/115
20:01	AimHere	Hmm, how do I tell if an object out of Javaland is a member of a subclass of some particular set X?
20:01	AimHere	*particular class X
20:01	tomoj	&(let [bar 3] `(foo ~`(bar ~bar)))
20:01	lazybot	⇒ (clojure.core/foo (clojure.core/bar 3))
20:02	tomoj	I always thought bindings only went 1 level deep in nested `/~
20:02	tomoj	maybe I'm confused
20:02	TimMc	AimHere: instance?, I think
20:03	TimMc	tomoj: I don't htink bindings have anything to do with it.
20:03	TimMc	Each symbol is either quoted or evaluated.
20:04	tomoj	when building macros in the past I've avoided nesting `/~ in some cases where it seemed convenient, thinking that if I nested too far I'd lose access to the local bindings above
20:04	AimHere	instance? looks like it does the trick. Thanks, TimMc
20:04	tomoj	crazy, must have just assumed that to be the case due to unrelated errors on some broken macro I was writing
20:05	technomancy	tomoj: the only thing you lose is gensym consistency
20:05	TimMc	tomoj: You can run into issues with gensyms.
20:05	technomancy	jinx
20:05	tomoj	oh, hopefully that's what I was thinking of..
20:24	bbloom	ibdknox: when you did some of your game stuff, how did you find perf with small vectors?
20:26	bbloom	i'm considering doing an implementation of gvec for small vectors: ie 2, 3, or 4 elements. it would be nice to generate generate types for vectors, simple shapes, colors, etc, and have them all implement IPersistentVector and friends
20:26	tomoj	I've wondered why there isn't an analogue to PersistentArrayMap for vectors
20:26	hiredman	https://github.com/hiredman/tuples
20:27	bbloom	tomoj: isn't there tho? VectorChunk or something?
20:27	bbloom	hiredman: ah cool, let me peek at it
20:27	hiredman	there is an open design question in tuples about caching the hash code
20:27	hiredman	it is a big digusting macro
20:27	bbloom	hiredman: yeah, it would have to be lol
20:28	bbloom	tuples is definitely the word my brain was searching for tho
20:28	hiredman	it would be interesting to do a vector impl that was all classes and fields instead of arrays in fields
20:28	tomoj	bbloom: well, I dunno, it's not an analogue exactly the way I was thinking, since (vector 1) is a PersistentVector, not a PersistentArrayVector or whatever
20:29	bbloom	tomoj: i think the reason is that it wouldn't yield significant performance improvement
20:29	bbloom	basically PersistentVector's Node inner class could also be a persistent vector
20:29	tomoj	yeah, I figured if I understood how PersistentVector worked, I'd see why
20:29	bbloom	but it would save you only 3 or 4 words of overhead
20:30	bbloom	probably not worth doing while PersistentVector is still defined in java
20:30	hiredman	you have 2 design axes, element access speed, and size of structure in memory
20:30	bbloom	hiredman: what are you using your tuples library for?
20:30	hiredman	nothing
20:30	bbloom	heh
20:31	bbloom	hiredman: so i want a little more flexibility than get12 etc
20:31	hiredman	bbloom: flexibility in what way?
20:32	hiredman	the gets all provide the fastest possible access, while nth is fast for tuples, it is not as fast as the gets
20:32	bbloom	hmmm i guess extend-protocol would do what i want
20:32	bbloom	basically, i want to be able to do something like:
20:32	bbloom	(defvector RectangleF [left right top bottom])
20:32	hiredman	:(
20:32	hiredman	just use a deftype
20:33	hiredman	or defrecord
20:33	bbloom	but then i'd also need to (extend-protocol Rectangle RectangleF ...)
20:33	bbloom	yeah, but i want fast field access
20:33	hiredman	uh
20:33	bbloom	generically, if possible :-)
20:33	hiredman	both defrecord and deftype give you that
20:33	bbloom	well and a persistent vector implementation lol
20:33	hiredman	named tuple types are gross
20:34	bbloom	they are gross for most use cases, but a 3d graphics library needs fast Vector2f, Rectangle, Circle, etc
20:34	hiredman	bbloom: deftype and defrecord will do that
20:35	bbloom	it would also be nice if i could somehow make it so that (= Vector3f (conj (Vector2f. 5 10) 15))
20:35	bbloom	ie define a range of small vectors
20:35	hiredman	tuples does that, but not super well
20:36	hiredman	actually, it might do it ok, the call to tuples make get inlined in to a direct constructor call by the clojure compiler
20:38	bbloom	ok, thanks for showing me this
20:38	tomoj	wonder if there is some reason not to make vars named https://www.refheap.com/paste/a5545e10e63a1fa688fd9276a
20:38	bbloom	hiredman: do you mind if i chop it up and adapt it for my needs and publish my changes?
20:39	hiredman	bbloom: sure, enjoy
20:39	bbloom	hiredman: thanks
20:39	hiredman	tomoj: not all vars have names
20:39	hiredman	it is possible to have "anonymous" vars
20:39	tomoj	not all symbols have namespaces
20:40	tomoj	I noticed that --unnamed-- case, but how do you create them?
20:40	technomancy	what always weirded me out was that namespaces aren't named
20:40	tomoj	it's weird maybe that Named includes getNamespace
20:40	hiredman	you have to interop on the Var class
20:41	hiredman	the compiler uses lots of anonymous vars, it is very gross
20:41	tomoj	..or for a Namespace, would (= (name ns) (namespace ns))?
20:41	karpov	hi all. (newbie question warning!) - would anyone be willing to take a quick look at a 4-line long gist, and tell me why does it throw? https://gist.github.com/4449117
20:41	hiredman	the namespace for a namespace is obviously the classloader that loaded it, not a symbol, so it cannot use the Named interface anyway
20:41	bbloom	karpov: laziness
20:41	bbloom	karpov: try mapv
20:41	hyPiRion	karpov: You're opening a file, making a lazy list, then close the file
20:42	hyPiRion	By making the list lazy, you're trying to read from a closed stream.
20:42	karpov	oooh. so it's closed by the time I attempt to actually read from it during realization?
20:42	hyPiRion	yup
20:42	tomoj	hiredman: :)
20:42	karpov	lol... well that's good to know, thank you all
20:43	hiredman	you should, of course, be using reducers for io instead of lazy seqs https://gist.github.com/4075459
20:44	hiredman	I guess that is not technically a reducer? it is jsut using coll-reduce
20:44	karpov	funny, I was just thinking that maybe reducing would be a better option... but my toolkit is just starting to grow. thanks, will check it out
20:45	tomoj	'reducer' to me means 'something that implements CollReduce'
20:45	hiredman	karpov: I am sort of joking, no one actually does that, but I think it is sort of a chicken and egg problem, no one has written a library for it because no one does it, because no one has a library …
20:46	karpov	ok then, checking out mapv )
20:47	bbloom	karpov: mapv is just (comp vec map)
20:47	bbloom	karpov: vectors are not lazy
20:48	bbloom	you can use vec any time you have a sequence and want to force it to be realized completely
20:48	technomancy	eh
20:48	technomancy	if you are just interested in forcing a seq it's clearer to use doall
20:48	karpov	hiredman: I do wonder though - why is it that doing something 'inside' the scope of with-open is running into a closed file? that doesn't sound very intuitive...
20:48	technomancy	vec does more than just force the seq
20:49	hiredman	karpov: map is produces a sequence of lazily computed results (a lazy-seq)
20:49	hiredman	karpov: so until you force the sequence the actually mapping has not happened
20:49	hiredman	http://clojure.org/sequences
20:50	karpov	oh.. so it's not the 1st lazy sequence (of lines from file), but 2nd one (of map results), that causes a problem?
20:50	hiredman	I dunno, I haven't looked at your code, I am just going by the general reaction to it
20:50	karpov	hm no, based on exception, it's the file ones alright..
20:51	mpan	I added a resource path to my project.clj and I can see it if I launch a new repl with "lein repl" but new repls launched inside eclipse ccw still can't see this change
20:51	karpov	like, double-laziness
20:51	mpan	how can I force eclipse ccw or the relevant parts to reload project.clj?
20:52	hiredman	instead of mapping over the values you returned a closure that called .read on the reader
20:52	hiredman	it is sort of like the upwards funarg problem
20:52	karpov	yeah that's what I am thinking now, right
20:54	mpan	even restarting eclipse doesn't seem to work, so I'm confused what I'm doing wrong
20:54	technomancy	mpan: :resource-paths ["something"]?
20:54	mpan	if I start a new repl with "lein repl" then it works
20:55	mpan	yes, I added a new resource-paths declaration to project.clj
20:55	mpan	but nothing I've tried so far has gotten the repls I start inside eclipse ccw to pick up on this
20:55	tomoj	#(if-let [v (resolve %)] (symbol (name (ns-name (.ns v))) (name (.sym v))) %)
20:55	tomoj	:/
20:56	mpan	so I test this by evaluating (clojure.java.io/resource "favicon.ico"), which works properly if I start a repl with "lein repl", but fails if I start a repl inside eclipse ccw (even though I just closed and restarted eclipse)
20:57	karpov	technomancy: oh, thanks for the doall tip too (and for leiningen =P)
20:57	mpan	oh, hm that's confusing
20:57	mpan	I have no idea why, but refreshing eclipse w/ f5 fixed it
20:58	technomancy	karpov: np =)
20:58	marcellus1	Anyone know of any decent guides or advice to help me better understand how/when to use agents?
20:58	marcellus1	Just read the section in Clojure Programming on them, and I sense that I need them in a problem I'm working on, but yet still don't "get" them enough to get any code written
20:59	technomancy	marcellus1: agents are a reference type, so you would use them when you need a stable identity whose value changes over time. but also they're asynchronous, so that plays into it too.
21:00	aaelony	marcellus1: +1 for me as well. I'm starting to use agents for distibuted writing to files, see http://lethain.com/a-couple-of-clojure-agent-examples/
21:01	aaelony	also: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8741514/maintaining-multiple-open-files-for-writing-clojure
21:01	marcellus1	sweet thanks guys
21:04	aaelony	there's also a few new functions for agents in 1.5 i think
21:18	ppppaul	i have a (println) in a thread that i want to have printing to my repl, how would i do so?
21:27	jballanc	sigh I feel like I've asked this before, but I think I'm still not clear: defrecord vs deftype?
21:27	ppppaul	map
21:27	jballanc	is there more than "deftype can have mutable fields" and "defrecord gets free intefaces"
21:27	ppppaul	records have brought me much pain
21:27	jballanc	interfaces
21:27	jballanc	ppppaul: how so?
21:28	ppppaul	hard to do transformations on them or something
21:28	ppppaul	i wrote my first clojure program using them, and near the end i removed all of the records completely
21:28	xeqi	http://cemerick.com/2011/07/05/flowchart-for-choosing-the-right-clojure-type-definition-form/
21:28	ppppaul	it was years ago, though
21:29	jballanc	xeqi: thanks! I knew I had read something like that in the past
21:30	ppppaul	if anyone can help me figure out how to get my threads writing to the same emacs repl i would be able to die happy :D
21:31	xeqi	ppppaul: ##(doc bound-fn) ?
21:31	lazybot	⇒ "Macro ([& fntail]); Returns a function defined by the given fntail, which will install the same bindings in effect as in the thread at the time bound-fn was called. This may be used to define a helper function which runs on a different thread, but needs the same bindings in place."
21:32	ppppaul	:D
21:33	ppppaul	i'm doing this:
21:33	ppppaul	(Thread. (bound-fn (fn []
21:33	ppppaul	(lc/subscribe ch queue-name message-handler :auto-ack true))))
21:33	xeqi	&(doto (Thread. (bound-fn [] (println "hi")) .start)
21:33	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading, starting at line 1
21:33	xeqi	&(doto (Thread. (bound-fn [] (println "hi"))) .start)
21:33	ppppaul	ooooh
21:34	lazybot	⇒ hi #<Thread Thread[Thread-44305,5,sandbox]>
21:34	ppppaul	^_^
21:35	xeqi	given it looks like you're doing a pub/sub thing, still might not be sufficient
21:35	ppppaul	yeah, it isn't working
21:35	ppppaul	:(
21:35	xeqi	might need to wrap message-handler
21:35	ppppaul	in a bound-fn or binding ?
21:36	hyPiRion	Since when did lazybot accept threads? I thought it didn't
21:36	xeqi	hyPiRion: I think its just direct Thread interaction. Though I did try to get Raynes to block it
21:37	hyPiRion	hm,
21:38	amalloy	hyPiRion: clojurebot successfully blocks threads; lazybot doesn't, partly because it's hard and partly because that makes him less useful
21:38	hyPiRion	I see
21:38	ppppaul	https://gist.github.com/4449412
21:42	ppppaul	how would i change message-handler to get it to print to my repl?
21:42	xeqi	ppppaul: I'm surprised to see the thread started for the consumer, I would have thought the mq would do the callback in a thread
21:43	ppppaul	this is an example right off the site for this lib
21:43	ppppaul	i'm surprised too
21:43	xeqi	ah, the "hello world" example
21:44	ppppaul	have a better way to do this? please enlighten me (i haven't done concurrency with clojure cept for future and a tiny bit with refs)
21:45	xeqi	ah, subscribe is a blocking call
21:45	ppppaul	blocking sexiness
21:46	ppppaul	maybe i do a bound-fn with &args and apply args to message-handler
21:46	xeqi	could try (bound-fn [& args] (apply message-handler args)) ... I'm almost tempted to say the bound-fn is needed in both places
21:46	ppppaul	^_^
21:48	ppppaul	thanks xeqi. it works
21:48	xeqi	hurray
21:49	ppppaul	i guess their hello world example is meant to run via lein run
21:49	mpan	thinking of trying an alternate approach: does someone know if you can ask quil to draw on arbitrary buffers e.g. the innards of some swing component?
21:50	devn	fastest way to get a clojure blog that runs on heroku by forking an existing project?
21:50	mpan	since if I can use a java applet then I can work with clojure-jvm and it would be taking on fewer unfamiliar things at once
21:50	xeqi	devn: https://github.com/yogthos/yuggoth ?
21:51	xeqi	not that I can vouch for the project, I just know it exists
21:51	devn	xeqi: appreciated. i guess i may as well just make this quick. i don't want one that uses noir
21:52	devn	just a simple skeleton with lib-noir, hiccup, etc.
21:54	xeqi	devn: http://www.luminusweb.net/docs ?
21:54	devn	where'd you find this?
21:54	xeqi	well, that has a few more things.. and not postgres
21:55	devn	I feel like I fell off the bus. I used to follow disclojure.org and planet clojure pretty closely
21:55	devn	i'm still on the list, just curious how you found that repo
21:55	xeqi	heh, I think I saw that on r/clojure, which I've just started following a couple weeks ago
21:56	devn	man, reddit has never been in my daily visits list
21:56	xeqi	http://www.reddit.com/r/clojure
21:56	devn	i know of r/clojure -- just have never been able to open it
21:56	devn	i think i was scarred by digg
21:56	devn	and slashdot before it
21:56	xeqi	heh, just ignore the rest of the site
21:56	devn	hacker news is the only thing i can stomach, but even that i go to sparingly nowadays
21:57	devn	probably due to me working with and being around nerds all the time -- no reason to spend time filtering when other people do it for me
21:58	devn	used to the be the case that someone who was into clojure and followed the list, etc. was like a unicorn to me
21:58	xeqi	I null hosted hn to try and be more productive. when I view it every couple days I realize I haven't really missed anything
21:58	devn	xeqi: surprising eh?
21:58	devn	you missed the pre-order for a kinect-controlled gyrocopter
21:59	devn	or some shit like that
22:00	xeqi	think the rails vuln was the only one recently... but really just missed the drama and saw the good explination
22:00	devn	there's some cool stuff on there, though. i miss having the time to read literally everything on it over the course of a day. i learned a lot there.
22:00	devn	The "Every NFL play for the past 10 years in CSV format" was kind of cool
22:01	devn	I'm always in the market for some large data sets
22:09	bobajett	noob question: Im trying to use a math library (https://github.com/clojure/math.numeric-tower). I've added to my lein dependencies [org.clojure/math.numeric-tower "0.0.2"]
22:09	bobajett	is there something I have to tell lein to do to fetch that library so I can use it at the repl?
22:10	bobajett	at the reply I get this: (require '[math.numeric-tower :as math]) \|[1 of 1] Compiling Main ( foo.hs, interpreted )
22:10	bobajett	FileNotFoundException Could not locate math/numeric_tower__init.class
22:11	jkkramer	bobajett: the namespace is clojure.math.numeric-tower - you're missing the "clojure." prefix
22:13	bobajett	(:require [clojure.math.numeric-tower :as math]))
22:13	bobajett	FileNotFoundException Could not locate clojure/math/numeric_tower__init.class
22:14	bobajett	jkkramer: will the repl automatically fetch/pull in the library or do I have to tell that before I fire up the repl?
22:16	jkkramer	bobajett: pretty sure lein repl pulls them in for you. are you using lein 2?
22:16	hyPiRion	bobajett: should fire up automatically for both lein1 and 2
22:16	bobajett	user=> user=> Bye for now![07:06P]basic$ lein version
22:16	bobajett	Leiningen 2.0.0-preview10 on Java 1.6.0_37
22:19	jkkramer	bobajett: do you see numeric tower when you run `lein deps :tree`?
22:21	karpov	I just tried adding that dependency, and it seems to work... I did start a fresh repl after adding it though.
22:23	karpov	you may want to check it got pulled into your .m2/repository/org/clojure, perhaps?
22:41	bobajett	jkkramer: karpov: thanks guys! (face-palm with-meta {:embarrased "red"} "I was in the stupid wrong project directory")
22:55	Sgeo_	Would it be trolling to have a blog post comparing Clojure and Racket show up on Planet Racket?
22:55	Sgeo_	erm, Planet Clojure
22:55	Sgeo_	Planet Racket isn't a blog aggregator
22:58	jyfl987	oop, found it,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheme_Requests_for_Implementation
22:59	jyfl987	http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-49/srfi-49.html
23:35	tomoj	user> (into {} (map #fn[% %] (range 5)))
23:35	tomoj	{0 0, 1 1, 2 2, 3 3, 4 4}
23:36	tomoj	i.e. (into {} (map (fn [x] [x x]) (range 5))) or (into {} (map #(vector % %) (range 5)))
23:46	callen	tomoj: Clojure needs the LOOP macro.
23:48	tomoj	meh