#clojure – 2012-09-30

2012-09-30

00:03	cjfrisz	mpan: You could certainly do that
00:03	cjfrisz	mpan: I think capslock-to-esc in vim is a way better idea
00:04	Urthwhyte	Jj is my preference
00:04	Urthwhyte	Rarely typed and on home row
00:04	cjfrisz	Hmm
00:04	cjfrisz	I'd have to try that one out
00:04	mpan	wait, huh?
00:05	mpan	you rebound J to ctrl?
00:05	mpan	does that not break everything else you want to do?
00:05	cjfrisz	I think he meant for vim
00:05	cjfrisz	Wait...
00:05	cjfrisz	No, still think that might be a good idea
00:06	Urthwhyte	Depending on what your repeat is set to, jj works
00:06	Urthwhyte	Let let check the line
00:09	Urthwhyte	inoremap jj <Esc>
00:16	davejacobs	i'm having session problems in compojure. i'm using the compojure.handler/site macro to wrap my routes, and my understanding is that that should provide the correct binding for session inside defroutes
00:17	davejacobs	why am i getting "Unable to resolve symbol: session" inside defroutes?
00:19	davejacobs	it seems like the ways in which the session is handled have changed so the docs aren't easy to follow
00:21	duck1123	Does anyone know how in waltz I can trigger an event, but only if the state machine is in a set of states? (connection opened state)
00:24	duck1123	I wonder if I should just build up a queue of pending events that'll fire as soon as the connection is back in an idle state
00:27	cjfrisz	I think I might be too proud of the piece of code I just wrote
00:27	cjfrisz	No, not too proud
00:27	cjfrisz	Just gloating about it too much
00:27	cjfrisz	Cuz it's a really awesome piece of code
00:27	duck1123	link?
00:27	clojurebot	your link is dead
00:33	cjfrisz	It's probably not going to make sense out of context, but here goes: http://pastebin.com/xLdCQgxN
00:33	cjfrisz	It's really more what it does, which needs a blog post to explain
00:38	duck1123	that looks like a function you'd be really happy once it works right
00:39	duck1123	now it's probably time to break it down
01:30	mpan	&(disj [0 1 2 3] 1 2)
01:30	lazybot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentVector cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IPersistentSet
01:31	mpan	whoops
02:15	spoon16	best template language to use with noir? does everyone agree re: hiccup?
02:16	Raynes	Whatever is best for the problem you're solving.
02:16	Raynes	Hiccup, Enlive, Mustache, etc.
02:17	Raynes	Mustache and Enlive are good choices for when you have designers working on your html that don't know Clojure. It's also nice if you like keeping your html and Clojure separate.
02:17	Raynes	Hiccup is the best option for in-code html generation.
02:18	Raynes	I'm personally a fan of mustache.
02:20	spoon16	I see
02:20	spoon16	I'll take a look, that sounds nice… I like using hiccup for generating partials
02:20	spoon16	but not the templates
02:23	spoon16	Raynes do you have any examples of actually using mustache on any of your github projects that I could look at/
02:29	Raynes	spoon16: refheap uses it exclusively for templating.
02:29	Raynes	Not going to say it is a canonical example though. My templates are due for a bit of a cleanup. ;)
02:30	Raynes	https://github.com/Raynes/refheap
02:30	spoon16	got it
02:30	spoon16	thanks
04:44	ciccillo	ciao
04:44	ciccillo	!list
08:48	cemerick	jonasen: In case you hadn't seen it: http://groups.google.com/group/clojure-dev/browse_thread/thread/a5242f3365149326
08:56	jonasen	cemerick: I did see it. BTW, my post to the clojure-tools ml seems to be stuck in moderation
08:57	cemerick	jonasen: I green-lighted you right after you sent it. It showed up in my inbox…?
08:58	jonasen	hmm... I don't see it at https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/clojure-tools
08:58	cemerick	huh, so it isn't
09:00	piranha	eh... so guys can somebody tell me how do you manage data in clojurescript? I mean if you have semi-complex application, which fetches some data from server and then combines with data from user, and needs to show it in various ways. I don't want to put it in DOM, so I could go with some atoms. But having too much atoms is not really nice, is it? If I have like hundred similar objects, should this be one atom? Or maybe single atom for all dat
09:00	piranha	a? And then some system to notify those who subscribed about updates?
09:01	cemerick	jonasen: feel free to resend
09:04	jonasen	cemerick: I wrote it with the google groups web interface so I don't have it anymore.. I'll just rewrite it then.
09:05	cemerick	jonasen: in that case, it may yet show up; I've seen latencies up to 2 days through the web interface
09:06	cemerick	jonasen: I can forward your email back to you…
09:07	jonasen	cemerick: Please do, and I'll resend it immediately
09:07	cemerick	sent
09:10	jonasen	Ok, it arrived to google groups.. Thanks cemerick!
09:52	raek_	jonasen: fyi, I received two mail from you via the clojure-tools list, one yesterday and one today
10:23	bonega	piranha: I would go for atoms. The granularity depends on the logical context/performance needs
10:25	piranha	bonega: sure, I'm just thinking that I have to manage them somehow so I'm seeking if there is any work was done in this direction
10:25	piranha	I'm also wondering if having one single big atom will hurt performance too much
10:27	bonega	Well, one of the reasons for using multiple atoms are non-stalling writes
10:27	bonega	in clojurescript I think we still only have one thread
10:28	bonega	But I'm not well versed in clojurescript internals...
10:28	bonega	er..
10:28	bonega	hum
10:29	bonega	I see we are not talking about refs
10:44	piranha	bonega: well, there is one thread, so there can't be any race conditions, hehe
10:45	piranha	or whatever :)
11:35	devth	i'm trying to format a collection as a string (using map and string join) but need to know if i'm on the last item in the collection. is there an idiomatic way to do that?
11:37	zamaterian	@find lamda
11:37	zamaterian	@find lambda
12:13	SrPx	The lein vimclojure command stopped working... I've installed lein-tarsier and used it once, but now it won't work. http://pastebin.com/iBjveurv any idea?
12:34	SrPx	nvm got it
12:35	benny__	SrPx, what is that for a command? my ubuntu packaged lein doesnt have it
12:36	SrPx	lein vimclojure if I understood runs a vimclojure server (?) or something that magically enables clojure repl and stuff on vim
13:03	SrPx	Anyone has an idea what this means? java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate clj_webdriver__init.class or clj_webdriver.clj on classpath: at clojure.lang.RT.load (RT.java:432)
13:05	SrPx	I have added [clj-webdriver "0.5.1"] to my project. restarted "lein vimclojure". it even downloaded clj-webdriver. but calling (require 'clj-webdriver) makes this error show
13:06	xeqi	SrPx: did you want (require 'clj-webdriver.taxi) ?
13:07	SrPx	xeqi: actually I have tried (use 'clj-webdriver.taxi), (use 'clj-webdriver), same with require, and other combinations, and it did not work. I tried again just after asking and it miraculously worked.
13:08	SrPx	(?) but thanks
13:33	edengler2	Howdy, having some issues using unquote-splicing and map. Basically, trying to figure out why it appears map does a check for an even number of arguments before unquote-splicing is applied, ie, why `[:client {~@[1 2 3 4]}] fails, yet `[:client {~@[1 2 3 4]}] and `[:client {~@[1 2 3 4]}] and `[:client {~@[1 2 3 4]}] all work
13:33	edengler2	The docs all seem to indicate that unquote-splicing in a map should lead to a (apply hash-map ...) construct.
13:33	edengler2	Whoops, ,my examples failed to copy, give me a sec
13:34	edengler2	... why `[:client {~@[1 2] ~@[3 4]}] and `[:client {~@[1] ~@[2 3 4]}] and `[:client {~@[1 2 3 4] ~@[]}] all work
13:37	raek	,'`[:client {~@[1 2 3 4]}]
13:37	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: Map literal must contain an even number of forms>
13:37	raek	,'`[:client (~@[1 2 3 4])]
13:37	clojurebot	(clojure.core/apply clojure.core/vector (clojure.core/seq (clojure.core/concat (clojure.core/list :client) (clojure.core/list (clojure.core/seq (clojure.core/concat [1 2 3 4]))))))
13:38	raek	edengler2: the error comes from the reader.
13:39	raek	or wait...
13:39	raek	,'[:client (~@[1 2 3 4])]
13:39	clojurebot	[:client ((clojure.core/unquote-splicing [1 2 3 4]))]
13:39	raek	,'[:client {~@[1 2 3 4] :dummy}]
13:39	clojurebot	[:client {(clojure.core/unquote-splicing [1 2 3 4]) :dummy}]
13:41	raek	edengler2: I think the reader first reads the syntax quoted expression and then transforms it. But in your case the "inner" expression is not valid
13:41	edengler2	I guess I am asking the question why the reader is doing a check for even number of arguments before full macro expansion?
13:42	ChongLi	it's eager?
13:42	raek	for ordinary macro expansion that's definitely the case
13:42	edengler2	It looks if I can fake it out by providing an additional dummy unquote-splicing, but it seems odd
13:42	raek	a macro is implemented as a function that take and return clojure data
13:43	raek	reading is just one way to construct that data
13:43	raek	so a workaround in your case could be `[:client (hash-map ~@[1 2 3 4])]
13:43	edengler2	For example, I do get a bad mapping if I provide an odd number of elements for the mapping (ie, there is an additional post-check), `[:client {~@[1 2] ~@[3]}]. I would have thought only this check would be done.
13:45	edengler2	For the workaround, I was thinking of `[:client {~@[1 2] ~@[]}], ie, add an extra expansion for the reader, but adds no new entries to the eventual expansion
13:45	raek	the problem is that the macro expander needs valid clojure data structures as its input
13:46	raek	,[:client {~@[1 2] ~@[]}]
13:46	clojurebot	#<IllegalStateException java.lang.IllegalStateException: Attempting to call unbound fn: #'clojure.core/unquote-splicing>
13:46	raek	,'[:client {~@[1 2] ~@[]}]
13:46	clojurebot	[:client {(clojure.core/unquote-splicing [1 2]) (clojure.core/unquote-splicing [])}]
13:46	edengler2	Ok, so I guess adding the extra dummy entry is the way to go
13:47	raek	I would go with `[:client (hash-map ~@[1 2 3 4])]. In that case the intermediate forms make sense too
13:47	raek	,'[:client (hash-map ~@[1 2 3 4])]
13:47	clojurebot	[:client (hash-map (clojure.core/unquote-splicing [1 2 3 4]))]
13:49	raek	or perhaps you could simply do this: `[:client ~{1 2 3 4}]
13:50	edengler2	Unfortunately, `[:client (hash-map ~@[1 2 3 4])] doesn't end up at the same spot, my entry of `[:client {~@[1 2 3 4] ~@[]}] ends up with [:client {1 2, 3 4}] rather than [:client (clojure.core/hash-map 1 2 3 4)]
13:50	raek	what do you mean by "end up at the same spot"?
13:51	edengler2	Ie, equivalent to `[:client {1 2 3 4}]
13:51	raek	{1 2, 3 4} means the same thing as (clojure.core/hash-map 1 2 3 4) when evaluated
13:52	edengler2	Will give it a try, but all of this is interacting with other libraries for XML and JSON
13:53	raek	edengler2: how is the "1 2 3 4" data represented when you receive it in your case?
13:53	edengler2	Ie, the other libraries are processing the output of the above expansion, and looks like they do not like the clojure.core/hash-map
13:53	raek	ah, you are generating data and not code?
13:53	edengler2	For example, in one place I am trying to generate attributes that depend if they exist.
13:53	hfaafb	code is data!
13:54	hfaafb	:p
13:54	raek	edengler2: I think it would be even simpler to just build the map before you splice it in
13:55	edengler2	raek: Possibly, Any, thanks for the help!
13:55	raek	like `[:client ~(...code that builds the map...)], possibly using (into {} (for ...)) or (zipmap ...)
14:00	Sgeo	Would it be a bad idea to use Hiccup for non-HTML?
14:01	Sgeo	I saw somewhere that it has issues generating arbitrary XML?
14:01	augustl	Sgeo: iirc it has special knowledge of some HTML tags, not sure if that's configurable
14:01	Sgeo	Something about namespaces IIRC
14:01	Sgeo	I should note that I know little about XML
14:03	augustl	I'd imagine you could support that in hiccup quite easily
14:03	augustl	something like [:nynamespace :tagname {:attrs "here"} "contents here"]
14:08	yankov	is there a fast way to concat seq's elements into one string? apply str works slow if you got big list
14:13	Frozenlock	yankov: clojure.string/join perhaps
14:14	yankov	,(time (clojure.string/join (range 10)))
14:14	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 0.171213 msecs"
14:14	clojurebot	"0123456789"
14:14	yankov	(time (apply str (range 10)) )
14:14	yankov	oops
14:14	yankov	,(time (apply str (range 10)) )
14:14	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 0.144494 msecs"
14:14	clojurebot	"0123456789"
14:15	yankov	looks like join is even slower a bit
14:19	Frozenlock	Indeed. I get in the 0.0X msecs when using it with string directly though. Btw, what kind of performance are you looking for?
14:27	xeqi	,(time (let [x (StringBuilder.)] (doseq [s (range 10)] (.append x (str s))) (.toString x)))
14:27	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 0.301244 msecs"
14:27	clojurebot	"0123456789"
14:27	xeqi	heh, not that timing with clojurebot is accurate
14:48	Moses_	Hi, I'm looking for an open source web app example with a good test suite. I want to learn how to properly write tests for web apps in clojure. Anyone know of any projects that could be used for this?
14:49	_ulises	Moses_: what level of testing are you after?
14:50	_ulises	Moses_: you may want to look at the tests for clj-webdriver
14:50	_ulises	Moses_: if you're using noir, you can look at the util.test namespace as it has many useful functions there for testing
14:50	Moses_	Wow, okay thank you _ulises
14:50	Moses_	I'm using Compojure, think that util.test is still releveant?
14:51	_ulises	Moses_: in any case, depending on the level of testing you're after, most webdev libraries deal with functions that return a map with the response, so it's a case of checking those maps for what you want
14:51	_ulises	Moses_: indeed
14:51	weavejester	Moses_: There's ring-mock for creating request maps
14:51	xeqi	Moses_: I created kerodon for clojars's test suite
14:52	SrPx	So, in clojure, can I create a function with 2 separed definitions, in a way that (foo obj_1) and (foo obj_2) will return 2 different values?
14:52	Moses_	Thank you weavejester and xequi, I'll check those out
14:53	_ulises	SrPx: I don't know but I wouldn't think so
14:54	xeqi	SrPx: maybe multimethods or protocols
14:54	SrPx	Well I need a 'character' class, and a (image my-char-instance) that will return the character's image. What is the clojure linguistic approach to this?
14:55	Moses_	I know you can do this (defn ([x] &body) ([x y] &body)) but I don't know if that's what you mean SrPx
14:55	SrPx	Would the instance of the character be a simple hash with {:type "character"} and image a function inside it like {image my-f} ?
14:55	_ulises	SrPx: I was about to suggest multimethods
14:55	_ulises	SrPx: if that's the case, you can dispatch on :type
14:55	SrPx	what is :type ?
14:56	SrPx	Can I dispatch in other things ? Like the value of a key
14:56	_ulises	SrPx: yes, that's what I meant by :type
14:56	_ulises	SrPx: remember that keywords are functions
15:00	SrPx	Just compiled the line 4, (derive :square :shape), got an error, http://o7.no/R54Hm0 , any idea ?
15:01	SrPx	java.lang.AssertionError: Assert failed: (namespace parent)
15:01	SrPx	assert failed, namespace parent? hm
15:01	gfredericks	SrPx: maybe you can only derive namespaced keywords?
15:01	gfredericks	e.g. (derive ::square ::shape)
15:02	SrPx	:: ?
15:02	_ulises	SrPx: this is what I meant by :type and multimethods https://www.refheap.com/paste/5399
15:02	gfredericks	SrPx: ##::foo
15:02	gfredericks	SrPx: ##(identity ::foo)
15:02	lazybot	⇒ :clojure.core/foo
15:02	gfredericks	it expands into a namespaced keyword in the current namespace
15:02	gfredericks	so you could also type out :my.ns/foo if you wanted to
15:03	SrPx	##(identify ::foo) ?
15:03	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: identify in this context
15:03	SrPx	##?
15:04	SrPx	##::foo
15:04	gfredericks	## just triggers lazybot
15:04	SrPx	##(identify ::foo)
15:04	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: identify in this context
15:04	SrPx	why it does not work with me
15:04	xeqi	## = inline lazybot eval, & = standalone lazybot eval
15:04	gfredericks	you're using identify instead of identity
15:04	SrPx	ohh sorry
15:04	gfredericks	,::foo
15:04	clojurebot	:sandbox/foo
15:09	SrPx	,(isa? java.util.HashMap ::collection)
15:09	clojurebot	false
15:13	SrPx	_ulises: I dont get it, (defmulti foo :type) ? :type ? Was not it supposed to be a function ?
15:13	SrPx	Oh wait
15:13	SrPx	keywords are functions that work on hashes right
15:14	_ulises	SrPx: exactly :)
15:14	SrPx	I get it now! Great!
15:15	SrPx	Actually this is awesome, thanks!
15:15	_ulises	SrPx: you can have any function you want instead of :type
15:15	_ulises	SrPx: as long as you have matching values instead of :image and :character
15:16	_ulises	SrPx: using class as dispatch function will give you the type dispatch you'd expect in Java for instance
15:16	SrPx	_ulises: so this does not even need derive etc
15:16	SrPx	_ulises: sorry, using class? What?
15:17	_ulises	##(class "foo")
15:17	lazybot	⇒ java.lang.String
15:17	_ulises	SrPx: that ^^^^
15:18	SrPx	so you mean I can .. hmm like, make like, (defmulti inverse class) (defmethod inverse java.lang.String [] ...) to extend java types?
15:19	_ulises	SrPx: not extend java types, but dispatch based on them
15:19	SrPx	hmm but why?
15:19	_ulises	SrPx: that's what you wanted to do originally?
15:19	_ulises	SrPx: I mean, that was your original question
15:20	_ulises	SrPx: on a second read, you weren't asking specifically about java types
15:20	_ulises	SrPx: but that's the usual answer "have a Type1 and a Type2 and then overload based on that" etc.
15:20	SrPx	I see!
15:23	SrPx	Should I use keywords, symbols or strings to define the type of my object? {:type :character}, {:type "character"}, etc?
15:24	gfredericks	using namespaced keywords gives you the derive functionality you were looking for earlier
15:24	gfredericks	otherwise regular keywords are probably fine
15:25	gfredericks	if there's any chance this 'type' will be mixing around in other systems then namespacing is safer
15:29	SrPx	Hmm
15:30	SrPx	OK, thank you very much.
15:30	SrPx	Unrelated question, is it possible to make a macro such as $test becomes (foo test)? This would be an reader macro, right? I know clojure does not have those, but I have heard it is possible to implement with some hacking
15:30	SrPx	a reader*
15:32	gfredericks	SrPx: I'm not sure what the essence of what you're describing is. it's the '$' expanding, so that $bar becomes (foo bar)?
15:33	SrPx	Yes, specifially, I'd want $something to expand to a function that would select a html element with id=#something
15:33	gfredericks	well with a few more characters you could do ($ :something), but that just sidesteps the question
15:34	SrPx	I know, I'm fine with ($ :something). Just wondering if it would be possible
15:34	gfredericks	I think the only way to get that kind of concision is if you wrapped your whole code in a (regular) macro that did the replacement; e.g. with-dollar-selectors
15:39	SrPx	Hmm I see.
15:40	gfredericks	that's the main limitation of macros; you can do damn near anything, but it has to start with a parenthetical s-expression
15:54	SrPx	Why it does not provide a reader macro?
15:54	SrPx	They are so powerful
15:54	gfredericks	fear of messy syntax?
15:54	SrPx	Clojure would be perfect with them
15:55	SrPx	but you should not deny power to the programmer, it is the fundamental of the lisp spirit
15:55	SrPx	):
15:56	gfredericks	what about libraries?
15:56	SrPx	what?
15:56	clojurebot	What is meta
15:56	gfredericks	you could get two libraries that both define the same reader macro
15:57	SrPx	Libraries should be discouraged to use them, but you should allow the programmer to define it for personal use if he wants to
15:57	SrPx	libraries can define the same macro anyway, right?
15:57	gfredericks	no they're always defined in namespaces
15:58	casion	there is one thing I've learned from using C a lot… if you allow people to do something, even if you strongly advise against it, they will do it
15:58	casion	and they will do it a lot
15:58	casion	and they will defend their right to do it
15:58	casion	and everyone fucking hates it
15:58	casion	including, eventually, the person who did it
15:58	gfredericks	:)
16:00	casion	SrPx: http://clojure-log.n01se.net/date/2008-11-06.html
16:01	casion	starting at 18:39
16:02	gfredericks	casion: (you can link directly to the 18:39)
16:02	casion	gfredericks: oh…
16:02	casion	i hate websites that have things like that essentially hidden :\|
16:03	steven123	posted a question on stackoverflow: why do bindings in REPL not work? http://bit.ly/TX6NKJ
16:03	casion	when will people learn that not everyone uses a mouse to browse the web
16:03	steven123	can anybody help?
16:09	SrPx	I'm so sad reading that log
16:09	SrPx	AWizzArd: rhickey: I don't want to convince anyone that reader macros are a good idea in general. But I think that you can't forsee everything, and people might come into situations where 1 or 2 reader macros are really helpful
16:09	SrPx	To be honest I would live of reader macros for building my own syntax on top of lisp
16:10	SrPx	I've chosen clojure over cl for many reasons, but the lack of reader macro thing really hurts me ):
16:11	SrPx	I don't see why you couldn't implement namespace stuff over reader macros, also
16:11	mpan	clojure convinced me to try a lisp outside an academic context with its interop
16:13	gfredericks	SrPx: because once you have to specify the namespace of your reader macro you lose all the concision
16:13	SrPx	it is awesome but having to write ($ "#myid") instead of $myid all around, for example, is a huge difference to be honest
16:14	gfredericks	chouser had an interesting idea though
16:14	SrPx	gfredericks: I dont understand it well, if you can define a macro for ($ something), why cant you define a reader macro for strings starting with $? $something
16:15	gfredericks	oh hmm...what if you could do (ns foo (:reader-macros [some.lib/$ :as $])), and then it would only apply for your namespace
16:20	SrPx	something like that, I'm not sure, but I'm positive it's possible
16:21	SrPx	it is the same thing in essence, just that it is a string preceding a symbol, instead of the first string in a s-expression
16:23	yankov	,(count ( time (map str (range 10000))))
16:23	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 0.05503 msecs"
16:23	clojurebot	10000
16:24	spoon16	/reload style
16:24	yankov	,(count ( time (apply str (map str (range 10000)))))
16:24	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 33.012849 msecs"
16:24	clojurebot	38890
16:24	yankov	seriously.. is there a way to make the second one faster?
16:24	gfredericks	yankov: the first one doesn't do anything
16:25	gfredericks	that's why it's so fast
16:25	ivan	can you not write some macro that turns every symbol that starts with $ into two forms?
16:25	yankov	gfredericks: ah..
16:25	gfredericks	ivan: yeah but he'd need a top-level macro call
16:25	ivan	right
16:25	gfredericks	,(time (count (map str (range 10000))))
16:25	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 23.317793 msecs"
16:25	clojurebot	10000
16:26	gfredericks	94% of naive clojure benchmarking just times a noop :)
16:26	yankov	hm..
16:27	yankov	anyway, there should be a way to use something instead of apply str. the thing is that server needs to convert seq into a one string before sending it to a client
16:28	yankov	and that ends up being kinda slow. like 1.5k op/sec for a list of 600 elements
16:28	xeqi	,(count (time (let [x (StringBuilder.)] (doseq [s (range 10000)] (.append x s)) (.toString x))))
16:28	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 17.474309 msecs"
16:28	clojurebot	38890
16:28	gfredericks	xeqi: apply str already uses a stringbuilder
16:29	gfredericks	yankov: at the very least if you apply str you can get rid of the map str
16:29	yankov	does amount of arguments passed to str matter? maybe when I pass 600 args that makes it slow?
16:30	gfredericks	yankov: I wouldn't think so
16:31	yankov	hm, then it must be my map. in real code it's more complicated than just str
16:31	yankov	i just benchmarked it wrong
16:31	gfredericks	yankov: this is an http server? I wouldn't think you'd have to assemble a string before responding
16:31	yankov	gfredericks: not http. sort of custom protocol
16:32	gfredericks	even so you ought to be able to do streaming
16:33	yankov	gfredericks: makes sense. i tried to send a separate response for each elements but it was very slow. but again, i could be doing it wrong
16:34	yankov	will take a look, thanks
16:46	spoon16	stencile (https://github.com/davidsantiago/stencil) or clostache (https://github.com/fhd/clostache) for rendering mustache templates?
16:50	xeqi	refheap uses stencil, so I'd end up choosing it
16:52	SrPx	How are :keywords used as functions? I mean how is it possible? I have read something about that but I forgot
16:53	spoon16	but why did Raynes choose stencil for refheap… I can't really tell the difference between the two except that the author of stencil implies that performance was important during his development and he has done some profiling
16:53	spoon16	I'm leaning towards stencil as well for that reason
16:53	spoon16	,(:test {: test "hello world"))
16:53	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: Invalid token: :>
16:53	jondot`	seeing some new projects for android/clojure - anyone really doing this beyond just playing around?
16:54	spoon16	,(:test {:test "hello world"))
16:54	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: Unmatched delimiter: )>
16:54	spoon16	I'm terrible at using clojurebot
16:54	spoon16	,(:test {:test "hello world"})
16:54	clojurebot	"hello world"
16:56	spoon16	SrPx: keywords implement IFn with one argument (a map) and an optional second argument (a default value)
16:56	spoon16	SrPx: For example (:mykey my-hash-map :none) means the same as (get my-hash-map :mykey :none)
16:56	spoon16	SrPx: docs… http://clojure.org/data_structures#Data%20Structures-Keywords
16:57	SrPx	where is it implemented? hmm
16:57	SrPx	IFn?
16:58	spoon16	IFn is the Java interface that identifies functions in clojure
16:58	spoon16	anything that can be used in the operator position of a sexpression implements IFn
16:58	spoon16	Keyword is the Java type implemented by all :keyword instances you use in Clojure
16:59	spoon16	and Keyword implements IFn so it may be used as an operator
16:59	spoon16	SrPx: see the code https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/Keyword.java
17:07	nightfly_	spoon16: Yay, that explains a very confusing error message I was getting the other day.
17:07	jballanc	anyone know off-hand what repo/branch the Clojure+Lua work was in?
17:08	spoon16	nightfly_: cool, clojure makes way more sense if you spend the time to reference the github repo and really learn all the different data structures… I am still just beginning that process
17:34	nkoza	What's the simplest way to access a Java class instance protected field?
17:36	emezeske	nkoza: Maybe 'proxy ?
17:47	Raynes	spoon16: Performance. Stencil is the fastest spec compliant stencil implementation around.
17:47	gf3	My brain is failing me, what's the function to execute an arbitrary amount of expressions and only return the last one's value
17:47	gf3	(something x y z) ; z
17:47	Raynes	gfredericks: do
17:47	Raynes	It isn't a function.
17:47	cjfrisz	gf3: do
17:47	gf3	Crap
17:47	Raynes	gf3, not gfredericks
17:48	cjfrisz	I know Raynes already answered...
17:48	gf3	Wrong channel
17:48	gf3	SORRY GUYS
17:48	gf3	(Looking for Racket)
17:48	Raynes	lol
17:49	gf3	Just FYI, in Racket it's (begin)
17:50	evhan	gf3: I think it's `begin` in Racket.
17:50	gf3	AHEM
17:50	evhan	gf3: Ah, there you go.
17:58	nkoza	emezeske: you cant use "proxy" to access protected fields of the parent class :(
17:58	nkoza	and I dont want to use AOT/gen-class
18:00	Raynes	nkoza: https://github.com/arohner/clj-wallhack/blob/master/src/wall/hack.clj#L15
18:01	Raynes	Oh, fields. There is a function for that too below that one.
18:01	nkoza	Raynes: thanks
18:06	spoon16	you guys know of any other projects like wallhack but generally make reflection and exploration of objects simpler? I'm just looking at libraries that enrich the repl
18:11	kaoD	hi
18:34	kaoD	what the hell is going on
18:34	ohpauleez	kaoD: It's called a netsplit
18:35	ohpauleez	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netsplit
18:35	kaoD	hmm nevermind, those where "Excess Flood" messages
18:35	kaoD	(completely missed it, but it's not a netplit)
18:41	alex_baranosky	does anyone know of a Clojure library for turning time durations into English (like "1 day", "2.34 days", etc)
18:42	gfredericks	"twoish days"
18:43	Raynes	alex_baranosky: lazybot has an implementation of that.
18:44	Raynes	alex_baranosky: https://github.com/flatland/lazybot/blob/develop/src/lazybot/utilities.clj#L7
18:44	alex_baranosky	Raynes: thanks
18:46	firesofmay	Hi, can anyone tell me if we can run clojure on raspberry pi? Any idea?
18:46	gfredericks	man rhickey was all over the IRCs back in the day
18:46	mpan	firesofmay: pretty much the normal way
18:46	firesofmay	mpan, have you tried it?
18:47	mpan	no, but since you can get a regular linux distro on it, the rest of the steps are pretty much the same
18:47	firesofmay	mpan, I see.
18:47	spoon16	firesofmay: if you are running Debian on the Raspberry Pi you can 'sudo apt-get install openjdk-6-jre'
18:47	ivan	http://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/91/is-there-a-jdk-with-a-jit-compiler-available
18:47	mpan	I'm not aware of anything x86 specific along the line
18:47	mpan	so the same steps should work fine as they do on your regular computer
18:48	firesofmay	spoon16, mpan ivan I see. Thanks.
18:48	firesofmay	anyone hacked on raspberry pi here?
19:25	cjfrisz	Woo, finally published a blog post about how CTCO works
19:25	cjfrisz	Now I don't have to feel guilty about never blogging
19:25	cjfrisz	Plus I can write shorter updates about things I figure out how to optimize
19:26	dnolen	cjfrisz: cool!
19:28	ohpauleez	definitely cool
19:43	wei_	what's the most mature templating and event handling library for clojurescript?
19:57	one-luck	ok what now?
19:58	ohpauleez	wei_: What specifically are you looking to do?
20:01	ohpauleez	most people use some mix of domina, enfocus, singult, crate, and jayq
20:03	wei_	I'm trying to listen to clicks on elements with a certain class. tried it with domina just now: (dom/listen! (dom/by-class "thumb") "click" thumb-clicked). but it results in Uncaught TypeError: Cannot call method 'call' of undefined
20:31	jcromartie	,(count (time (apply str (range 1e5))))
20:31	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 290.873695 msecs"
20:31	clojurebot	488890
20:32	jcromartie	just butting in, don't mind me
20:33	gfredericks	,(->> 1e5 range (apply str) time count)
20:33	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 221.043181 msecs"
20:33	clojurebot	488890
20:34	muhoo	jcromartie: you can pm the bot
20:35	muhoo	cjfrisz: link?
20:35	cjfrisz	muhoo: http://www.chrisfrisz.com/blog/?p=234
20:54	wei_	solved my issue above. I had to import domina.events in addition to domina
20:54	wei_	err, require
21:30	n00b_	I'm currently looking for the source of the function applyTo - it's in clojure.core, but the definition isn't there and core does not import any other namespaces - how is this possible?
21:31	n00b_	relevent link: http://code.google.com/p/clojure/source/browse/trunk/src/clj/clojure/core.clj
21:38	gert	has anyone tried to integrate Chas Emerick's Friend with a clojurescript app?
21:38	Raynes	n00b_: That's a Java method, not a Clojure function.
21:39	Raynes	That is also not the right repository.
21:39	Raynes	https://github.com/clojure/clojure
21:39	Raynes	The code.google stuff is so old that it's kinda magical you found it and not the git repo.
21:40	brehaut	gert: cemerick might have ;)
21:42	n00b__	In the implementation of apply there is a fn applyTo - however when I look for it in core I find nothing, and no imports. How is this possible?/where does this fn come from?
21:42	cemerick	gert: ClojureScript is just a library in a browser as far as Friend is concerned.
21:43	gert	I know
21:43	gert	:)
21:44	gert	I'm trying to come up with a proper workflow/architecture for a clojurescript app + Chris Granger's Fetch + cemerick's Friend
21:44	xeqi	that does take some work
21:44	xeqi	fetch + friend
21:45	gert	I think I'm close to getting something working, but it's a bit messy at the moment. I was just wondering if anyone else has done anything authentication-related in cljs
21:45	xeqi	gert: https://github.com/xeqi/friend-fetch-example has a working example, but I really need to get back and clean it a bit
21:46	gert	oh!
21:46	gert	thanks xeqi, I'll check that tout
21:46	gert	*out
21:46	xeqi	hmm, might make a good blog post too
21:47	cemerick	xeqi: that's a really hard way to do it
21:47	gert	I'm basically doing an xhr post request to a login url that gets intercepted by Friend. That part, and the authentication, works.
21:47	gert	I just need to return a result
21:47	xeqi	ah, then fetch doesn't matter much in that case
21:47	ohpauleez	xeqi: If you're going to use fetch to authenticate, I suggest you replace it with Shoreleave's remotes
21:48	cemerick	gert: just make a request to a non-fetch URI in order to obtain an authenticated session, and then all of your RPC after that point with the same host will carry those credentials.
21:48	ohpauleez	to get CSRF protection and proper XSS handling
21:49	xeqi	ohpauleez: heh, I would look at shoreleave and cemerick's ring-remote; not a particular fan of noir/fetch, that was just a one off
21:49	gert	xeqi: I'm using fetch with Compojure
21:49	gert	it's trivial to replace the noir defpage with a route that calls call-remote
21:50	gert	it'd be easy to remove any dependency on noir or compojure from fetch
21:50	cemerick	gert: doing so would leave you with shoreleave remotes, essentially.
21:50	cemerick	(AFAICT, I never used fetch myself)
21:51	gert	cemerick: ohpauleez: I guess it's time for me to have a closer look at Shoreleave. :)
21:51	ohpauleez	xeqi: Ahh gotcha. I actually have a few key issues with Noir, but I haven't sat down to rework some ideas I have
21:51	ohpauleez	gert: Enjoy the rabbit hole!
21:52	ohpauleez	In all honesty, the code is pretty straight forward - it really is all the grunt work you'd end up doing for a decent CLJS app
21:53	gert	ohpauleez: cheers! it's been a joy so far. I'll see how far I get with Shoreleave. this is the beginning of a fairly complex client side app and it's all very exciting. :)
21:53	ohpauleez	gert: Awesome to hear it! I've had a blast working on CLJS stuff and a lot of success. I have some pretty interesting metrics to share at the Conj
21:54	Raynes	ohpauleez: What are the key issues?
21:54	ohpauleez	Raynes: With?
21:54	ohpauleez	Noir?
21:54	clojurebot	noir is great
21:54	Raynes	You said you have some key issues with Noir. Just curious what they are.
21:55	gert	ohpauleez: awesome! if I wasn't all the way in New Zealand I'd go to Conj. Or if my startup had the funds to send me. Maybe next year. :)
21:56	ohpauleez	ahh yeah - so i think the pieces you've pulled out into other libs lib-noir and the other one for looking across classpath stuff are awesome. It opens up the door for using metadata on functions rather than stateful atom bashing
21:56	ohpauleez	really
21:56	ohpauleez	I just don't want a macro for my functions, I want real functions. And the style of using an atom gets the job done, but I'm not sure it's totally needed
21:57	ohpauleez	that said, I really haven't dug deeper
21:57	xeqi	ohpauleez: did you ever publish the todoMVC example mentioned on http://www.pauldee.org/blog/2012/production-clojurescript/ ?
21:57	ohpauleez	or tried my hand at it, so please take it with a huge grain of salt
21:57	Raynes	ohpauleez: I agree regarding the statefulness of noir. But once you pull that away, you get compojure. So, I've just been using compojure and lib-noir lately.
21:57	ohpauleez	xeqi: No, but there is a decent demo linked from Shoreleave's github
21:58	ohpauleez	Raynes: ahhh cool. That was my thought at well. And I think you could still auto build routes via reflection on metadata, I'm not sure if that's a good idea or not
21:59	cjfrisz	Anybody else amused that the "call for presentations" is still up on the Conj site?
21:59	cjfrisz	And also dying for a comprehensive list of who all is speaking and about what?
21:59	xeqi	cjfrisz: not surprised; was told the list of presentations should have been up at the end of last week
22:00	ohpauleez	cjfrisz: side note - great blog post
22:00	SegFaultAX	What's lib-noir?
22:00	Raynes	xeqi: I was told that it was put up next week. The Doctor doesn't usually lie about these things.
22:00	Raynes	$google lib-noir
22:00	lazybot	[noir-clojure/lib-noir · GitHub] https://github.com/noir-clojure/lib-noir
22:01	cjfrisz	ohpauleez: Thanks! I really appreciate feedback.
22:04	xeqi	Raynes: but rule 1...
22:05	duck1123	don't wander off
22:05	xeqi	the other rule number one
22:05	duck1123	sorry, wrong Doctor
22:06	ohpauleez	What is rule number one? I'm trying to remember
22:06	InternetFriends	now you're going to die
22:06	xeqi	ohpauleez: http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Doctor%27s_Rules
22:07	duck1123	Eleven's rule #1 is "the doctor lies"
22:07	ohpauleez	Ahh yes, the doctor lies
22:08	ohpauleez	the only one I remember is the last one, "Time is not the boss of you"
22:09	duck1123	ahh, speaking of... I need to go watch the new one still. night all
22:24	jkdufair	would anyone have any idea why a sequence i've obtained via a jdbc query would not cause the body of my map fn to execute but can be materialized via doseq?
22:25	ohpauleez	map is lazy, and nothing is forcing its execution
22:25	jkdufair	ah!
22:25	ohpauleez	when you doseq, you realize the entire sequence, making the map (and map fn) happen
22:25	jkdufair	didn't know map was lazy
22:25	jkdufair	thank you!
22:25	ohpauleez	totally welcome!
22:27	jkdufair	heh. read right past "lazy" in (doc map)
22:28	cjfrisz	Well, I'll be
22:28	cjfrisz	I somehow never noticed that, either
22:29	jkdufair	also, args are all passed by ref, yes?
22:30	ohpauleez	jkdufair: reduce is lazy too, as are things like keep, remove, etc
22:31	jkdufair	super. makes total sense. i just hadn't realized my seq yet and couldn't figure out why my damn debug stmts weren't happening
22:31	Scriptor	ohpauleez: how is reduce lazy?
22:31	ohpauleez	jkdufair: you can always force realization if you need to bring everything into ram
22:32	jkdufair	no i actually don't
22:32	ohpauleez	Scriptor: I'm almost certain it is, no?
22:32	casion	I don't think reduce is
22:32	Scriptor	ohpauleez: it can't be, because it doesn't always return a lazy seq
22:32	ohpauleez	Ohh right
22:32	ohpauleez	duh
22:32	Scriptor	reductions is lazy, however
22:37	jkdufair	ohpauleez: you broke thru a 2 day logjam i had. whew. i love clojure
22:37	mpan	yea, I got hit really hard by that recently
22:38	casion	speaking of logjams… after all the screwing around with clojure.xml, clojure.zip, clojure.data.zip/xml, clojure.data.xml
22:38	mpan	but I figure, it's the sort of wall you run into once, and in the future you remember to consider it
22:38	casion	the answer was to just use enlive
22:38	casion	which seems to work correctly and very easly
22:38	mpan	what did you want to do?
22:38	casion	parse, modify and render xml
22:38	mpan	I think I'm gonna need to generate xml tomorrow or the day after
22:39	jkdufair	i'm rather enjoying enlive
22:39	casion	spent 4 days working on it, searching, searching irc logs and asking questions in here
22:39	jkdufair	my app is primarily a web scraper and enlive makes things very straightforward
22:40	mpan	wait, how does enlive help you with taking in xml?
22:40	casion	mpan: it has xml-resource
22:40	casion	which uses the sax parser
22:40	mpan	but nicer than using sax directly, I hope?
22:40	casion	same as clojure.xml iirc
22:40	casion	yes
22:40	mpan	awesome thanks
22:40	casion	the biggest benefit is that it has xpath-like element referencing
22:41	casion	with css syntax
22:41	casion	AND it renders properly
22:41	casion	which clojure.xml does not do
22:41	mpan	wait, which part doesn't it?
22:41	mpan	should I use that and not clojure.xml, then?
22:42	casion	clojure.xml does not render properly
22:42	mpan	render as in?
22:42	casion	it has issues with whitespace and character entities
22:42	casion	render, print, emit
22:42	mpan	ok
22:42	mpan	thanks
22:42	casion	the process of tree -> xml
22:43	casion	enlive doesn't support xml namespaces though
22:43	casion	but that's not an issue for me
23:07	spoon16	does hiccup support namespaced attributes on output?