#clojure – 2012-09-10

2012-09-10

00:02	michaelr`	good morning
00:30	muhoo	i'm totally getting off on how fun it is to do data transformations in a huge (->> ) chain in clojure
00:33	michaelr`	muhoo: yeah me too :)
00:35	michaelr`	muhoo: do you ever have cases where you need to insert a func that needs the argument to be the first into a chain started as ->> or vice versa?
00:36	muhoo	yes! and the hack is to do (->> blah #(foo % bar)), or use swiss-arrows
00:36	clojurebot	'Sea, mhuise.
00:36	michaelr`	muhoo: swiss-arrows?
00:36	muhoo	https://github.com/rplevy/swiss-arrows
00:37	michaelr`	btw, i usually try to avoid using #(), somehow it makes the code less readable for me
00:37	muhoo	yeah, it's not ideal, but i prefer #(..) to (fn [n] ...). less verbose.
00:39	Sgeo	muhoo, I think your hack should be (#(foo % bar))
00:39	muhoo	Sgeo: indeed, thanks.
00:42	michaelr`	now it looks really ugly
00:42	michaelr`	while swiss arrows looks really cool... :)
00:47	muhoo	yeah, (-<> (foo <> bar) (baz quux blah <>)) ... a lot cleaner
00:47	callen	okay, I want to use noir, but the plugin task was removed.
00:48	callen	why is nothing in sync with the new lein, even the most popular web framework?
00:48	callen	how do I add noir as a dependency to my project.clj myself without relying on the plugin?
00:48	muhoo	callen: [noir "1.3.0-beta8"]
00:49	muhoo	or whatever beta is current, i think 9
00:49	michaelr`	muhoo: once you start speaking swiss it all becomes clear :) haha
00:49	callen	muhoo: I just got done getting my face kicked in because I was using a beta version of lein, why would I use the current beta of noir? what changed?
00:51	muhoo	callen: https://github.com/noir-clojure/noir/commits/master well, that's what changed
00:51	callen	cheshire appears to be one reason.
00:51	callen	utf-8 fixes too.
00:51	callen	good enough reasons for me.
01:05	frio	callen: what do you mean re the noir task? can't you just lein new noir mysite (in lein2)?
01:55	muhoo	happy happy joy joy (reduce #(update-in % [:city (:city %2)] conj (dissoc %2 :city)) {})
03:42	augustl	I have a list of maps, how do I get the index/position of the first map in the list that matches a given predicate?
03:44	augustl	this seems to work (.indexOf (map :the-key my-list) "foo")
03:46	michaelr`	,(doc positions)
03:46	clojurebot	Pardon?
03:46	michaelr`	hmm
03:46	michaelr`	'(doc positions)
03:47	michaelr`	err
03:47	michaelr`	augustl: ^^^ :)
03:47	augustl	thanks :)
03:48	tomoj	where is that?
03:48	Raynes	&(doc positions)
03:48	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve var: positions in this context
03:48	Raynes	tomoj: In his head, I think.
03:49	tomoj	contrib.seq, but
03:49	tomoj	(->> coll (keep-indexed #(when (#{1} (:foo %2)) %))) ? :/
03:49	tomoj	er, ignore the arrow, it had more parts originally :)
03:51	Raynes	I don't think that does what he wants.
03:51	Raynes	He wants the index, not the map.
03:51	Raynes	Oh
03:51	Raynes	Blah
03:51	Raynes	Never mind me.
03:52	michaelr`	sorry for senting you to contrib ;)
03:52	michaelr`	sending
04:05	mpan	yay "any language of your choice"
04:12	hyPiRion	mpan: "Any language of your choice" is in two of my four courses (three, but I don't consider Clj a language for parallel programming)
04:12	hyPiRion	I love it - finally no need to set my hair on fire.
04:31	mpan	well, the other course is adamant about wanting java, standard library, no jars or other external dependencies
04:31	mpan	mostly for the sake of the well-being of the graders, I imagine
04:40	hyPiRion	Well, yeah.
04:40	hyPiRion	Should be easy to validate the program.
04:43	clgv	mpan: what topic is the course about?
04:45	mpan	that particular one is one I don't think I'll be taking any more, just because I have more stuff than I need and the combined homework is going to get messy mid-semester
04:45	mpan	so 1/2 my remaining classes that expect programming have no language preferences
04:47	clgv	mpan: I have had a course where one language was fixed, but I did it in another language anyway, since there was no checked homework. only solutions in the given language were presented.
04:49	mpan	anyway, going to start another class assignment in clojure, I guess
04:49	mpan	last time, some weird thing with seqs and laziness came up, but overall it felt nice
04:49	pisketti	Is there a way to explicitly fail a test in clojure.test?
04:50	clgv	mpan: sometimes it's better to avoid lazy if you have no benefit of it ^^
04:50	pisketti	print-tap-fail just prints stuff but doesn't fail the test
04:50	clgv	pisketti: returning false? or do you want to fail from within another function?
04:50	pisketti	I'm looking for something like fail in JUnitr
04:51	pisketti	yes
04:51	pisketti	I have a test util function
04:51	pisketti	or several actually
04:52	clgv	pisketti: would throwing any specific exception work for you?
04:52	pisketti	With certain condition I want the whole test to fail
04:52	pisketti	clgv: I guess that would do it but I'm surprised if that's the way to go
04:52	pisketti	I would assume there is a way to explictily fail a test
04:53	clgv	pisketti: I dont know if there is something built-in like that. but It would have to use an exception as well
04:54	pisketti	okay, thanks
04:56	clgv	pisketti: I checked the source. there seems to be no such function to fail on purpose
04:58	clgv	pisketti: but you yould write your function in a short-circuiting way: with `or` or `and`
06:12	naeg	Why can't I :use clojure.core.logic? There is no installation needed, is it? (Clojure 1.4)
06:12	naeg	http://bpaste.net/show/s8UWDqWrCyjvPY71e9GW/
06:15	Cheiron_	Hi, how to handle MessagePack in Clojure? any library?
06:17	clgv	naeg: afaik it is still an external lib that you have to add to your project.clj
06:20	naeg	clgv: thanks, it's working now
06:32	kral	namaste
06:32	algernon	naeg: you need a dependency in your project.clj
06:34	naeg	algernon: thanks, yeah, figured that out already ;)
07:15	naeg	can I do a simple equality test inside a run* in core.logic using just plain =?
07:22	llasram	naeg: I've only played around with core.logic a little, but my understanding is that you need to `project` to do any non-relational operations
07:24	naeg	llasram: I'm trying to check columns of a connect four game: http://bpaste.net/show/bFmSVQnwiRpuOP1Fgf5B/
07:24	naeg	but with l/== it results into () and with = it doesn't result in anything
07:27	naeg	a simple test suggests that l/== is the right one though: http://bpaste.net/show/iuXYzyfiXXHkApolsuL6/
07:28	clgv	naeg: correct me if I am wrong but l/== should be unification right?
07:28	llasram	This really is the blind leading the blind, but I don't think expressions constructed the way you have them work.
07:29	llasram	Right, what clgv is saying, if I understand properly
07:29	naeg	I think so too, but I can't use =
07:29	clgv	naeg: did you read any intro on core.logic?
07:30	llasram	I think what need to do is map each entry in the board to a fresh logic variable, then perform unification across those
07:30	naeg	clgv: yeah, magical island of kanren
07:30	xeqi	(inc llasram)
07:30	lazybot	⇒ 2
07:31	naeg	I'm not getting that one llasram? I'm only checking columns now and since I know the x already, there are only 6 different y's
07:31	xeqi	see https://gist.github.com/3217582#L23 where vars represents the sudoku board
07:33	llasram	naeg: Ok, so not the whole board, but the entries of interest. You need to have a function-local representation where you first unify a set of logic variable w/ the current board state, then unify the potential solution with that logic variable state
07:34	llasram	But yeah, like the Sudoku solver xeqi linked to. I'm really just going off of the examples I've seen, and it may be possible to express in a different way
07:35	naeg	llasram: putting together a vector of all the elements in the column and check whether the sublist ["X" "X" "X" "X"] appears in it?
07:36	naeg	that would be exactly what i'm doing with the rows already
07:37	llasram	I'm having trouble expressing this apparently. Let me repl up an example
07:38	naeg	llasram: I might have trouble understanding it, an example would be highly appreciated
08:01	llasram	naeg: Whew. I have been meaning to get some more core.logic practice :-) https://www.refheap.com/paste/4980
08:02	llasram	I don't believe this is the best way of expressing it, but does at least appear to work
08:14	naeg	llasram: now I understand what you meant before :P
08:17	llasram	naeg: Oh, good, because I realize now it wasn't quite how I described it :-) The cKanren finite domain stuff takes care of the intermediate representation for you. It's quite nice
08:20	naeg	llasram: I'm just wondering whether all those l/+fd could be replaced with a map-indexed
08:21	naeg	but I guess not
08:25	ro_st	technomancy: ping
09:52	cshell	If conj is polymorphic on the type, why isn't it a protocol?
09:54	S11001001	cshell: conj came first
09:54	chouser	cshell: in ClojureScript it is.
09:54	cshell	Are they planning on changing it in 1.5?
09:56	S11001001	cshell: if so, it would be in jira
09:57	chouser	Clojure was built with Java interfaces at the core, Java implementations on top of that, and finally clojure functions and macro on top of that. So in Clojure, conj is an interface method, IPersistentCollection.cons
09:57	cshell	So, if we made a new datastructure via deftype, we'd have to mixin something from the IPersistentCollection interface?
09:58	chouser	In Clojure, protocols and deftypes were built on top of that whole stack.
09:58	chouser	In ClojureScript, Protocols and deftype are at the bottom, and everything is built up from there.
09:58	cshell	S11001001, chouser: thanks, all this is very helpful!
10:01	chouser	cshell: so yes, in Clojure implement IPersistentCollection. I don't think that'll change in the foreseeable future.
10:01	cshell	that makes sense
10:02	chouser	Now, if cljs gets a JVM bytecode back end, and someone ports the cljs compiler from Java+Clojure to pure cljs...
10:04	casion	is there a way to change how sets check for equality between elements?
10:05	cshell	create a new function?
10:05	S11001001	casion: only for your own types
10:08	casion	hmm. Well I guess I need to rethink this whole thing then
10:09	casion	I wanted to throw some byte-arrays into a set to get a collection of unique items
10:25	S11001001	casion: put a type around byte array
10:27	S11001001	casion: (incidentally, this is also how you'd solve the "add your own implicit whatever" problem in haskell)
10:43	naeg	how could I write a predicate that declares that the first given coordinate is ascending (both x and y +1) to the second coordinate? (core.logic)
10:43	naeg	I guess I still have a wrong understanding of l/==
10:53	mindbender1	piggieback lists [org.clojure/clojurescript "0.0-1450"] as a dependency but lein reports it's inability to locate it.
11:06	casion	S11001001: I was hoping to avoid converting/casting to another type, and then back when I want to use it
11:06	casion	as I do need to pass that byte-array to a java method in the future
11:09	cark	that's not really conversion or casting, only wrapping, a O(1) operation
11:10	cark	S11001001: konrad hinsen corrected the fetch-val function
11:10	cark	S11001001: and i've beeen working on implementing lenses
11:11	cark	S11001001: not a library yet, but i've gone as far as the state-m lenses
11:12	casion	cark: you mean doing something like (seq (byte-array [stuff])) is O(1) ?
11:13	cark	you asked how to change the way sets are checked for equalitye
11:13	cark	-e
11:14	casion	I'm confused now :\|
11:17	clgv	casion: calling `seq` is O(1). it's just wrapping the given argument into a seq-implementation if it can
11:17	cark	the thing is that i don't know which interface (or protocol?) you need to implement in order to change equality
11:17	S11001001	clgv: seq won't work, but a newtype wrapper with cheap unbox will
11:18	S11001001	cark: unknown falls back on Object equals/hashCode
11:18	cark	so you would use a deftype
11:18	clgv	S11001001: what? what should it work for except what its docstring says?
11:19	clgv	S11001001: I just commented the O(1) question...
11:19	S11001001	clgv: (identical? some-byte-array (??? (seq some-byte-array))) => true
11:20	casion	I wanted to do something like ##(into #{} [(byte-array [(byte 1) (byte 2)]) (byte-array [(byte 1) (byte 2)])])
11:20	lazybot	⇒ #{#<byte[] [B@4cf181> #<byte[] [B@183713c>}
11:20	casion	except the = that set seems to use doesn't work obviously
11:20	clgv	S11001001: I have no idea what you want to tell me with that.
11:21	S11001001	clgv: you can't reverse that seq call in constant time
11:21	cark	well then seqing the byte arrays should do the trick
11:21	casion	cark: it does, but it's slow, and then I have to convert back to byte-arrays later
11:21	clgv	S11001001: no. but he didnt ask for that. just for the seq call
11:22	S11001001	clgv: casion: as I do need to pass that byte-array to a java method in the future
11:22	S11001001	casion: using a deftype will give you O(1) wrapping and O(1) unwrapping
11:22	cark	clgv: then your other option is to wrap the byte arrays in a type, and override the equality thing, i don't know which interface has it. Trouble is that you still will need to loops across your arrays
11:22	clgv	S11001001: thats probably somewhere before the question ^^
11:23	cark	casion: not clgv !
11:23	S11001001	cark: Object
11:23	cark	alright
11:23	chouser	naeg: I don't know if you can "do numbers" in core.logic
11:24	S11001001	IIRC you can even do it with defrecord
11:24	cark	chouser: numbers over a domain, the *fd functions i think
11:24	casion	I guess I could just make a new type and call java.utils.Arrays/equals for =
11:24	S11001001	casion: don't forget hashCode
11:25	cark	chouser: dnolen talks about that toward the end of his incomplete talk
11:25	casion	S11001001: didin't even know about it in the first place
11:26	casion	I'm as new to java as I am to clojure
11:26	casion	(or oop or functional programming for that matter)
11:27	S11001001	casion: http://findbugs.sourceforge.net/bugDescriptions.html#HE_EQUALS_NO_HASHCODE
11:28	casion	I see, so I need to make sure hashCode returns the same value for this type then, correct?
11:28	S11001001	s,the same,a consistent,
11:29	casion	ok, thank you
11:29	casion	and thank you cark
11:29	cark	only repeating S11001001's views =P
11:29	casion	all help is appreciated :)
11:30	chouser	cark: oh interesting. Didn't notice logic.arithmetic
11:32	casion	chouser: I'm starting to use clojure-jna, do you know if there's a good way to distribute cross-platform apps when using it?
11:33	casion	I have distributable libraries for the target platforms
11:35	chouser	casion: no. We built a thing to help with that for LonoCloud, but it requires almost constant tinkering, and every new native dep adds unexpected requirements. This is one area where the JVM ecosystem is a complete mess
11:38	casion	chouser: ok
11:38	casion	at least clojure-jna has helped figure out dealing with jna from clojure
11:39	chouser	good, I'm glad. That's an old lib. I suppose I should release a version to clojars or something.
11:43	casion	I'm currently using it for generating tests against the de facto C library that I'm more or less replicating in clojure, and I thought maybe I should just wrap that lib instead...
11:43	casion	but I think that's obviously a silly idea
11:48	arrdem	is it legal to write a let form where the definition of some symbol is recursive?
11:48	chouser	arrdem: nope. But you may be able to use letfn instead
11:49	arrdem	thanks chouser, I thought not.
11:49	samrat	so, is Clojurescript One the place to get started with Clojurescript? any other recommended resources for cljs?
11:53	technomancy	samrat: a lot of people seem to have trouble with it since it's a bit outdated
11:53	technomancy	cljsbuild seems to be the way to go
11:54	technomancy	chouser: are you using lein to build jars that contain native components?
11:55	chouser	technomancy: yes, I suppose we are.
11:55	samrat	technomancy: thanks, I've already installed lein-cljsbuild.
11:55	technomancy	chouser: so are you using the native/ convention that extracts the contents at runtime or do you roll your own thing for getting them on the filesystem?
11:56	samrat	but I was kinda looking for a tutorial, on cljs basics
12:03	chouser	technomancy: I haven't looked at it myself in a while, so I'm having trouble remembering. Looks like we've got a chunk of code commented "derived from leiningen"
12:03	chouser	but we are using the native/ convention
12:03	arrdem	okay that's it. Screw fnparse. What are your favorite non-abandonware clojure parser libs?
12:03	technomancy	chouser: just wondering because that's completely undocumented =\
12:04	chouser	oh, I think the deal may be that we're deploying uberjars to places where we don't have lein, so we had to do our own unpacking? Would that make sense?
12:05	technomancy	yeah, makes sense
12:05	technomancy	that's actually fairly common; I think overtone and lwjgl now do that
12:06	chouser	so we're relying on the native/ convention for getting dev envs set up right, and letting lein do that for us, but we extract the native libs ourselves when we have to
12:06	technomancy	yeah
12:06	technomancy	I should probably formally extract that
12:06	chouser	But then each native lib comes with a java lib that may or may not try to do the object loading itself
12:07	chouser	And that loading needs to be done exactly once per JVM, which gets tricky when containers give you different copies of the same namespace in a single JVM, etc etc
12:08	technomancy	or yeah, I could leave that problem alone and let someone tackle it who has actually used native dependencies and knows what they're talking about =)
12:13	mindbender1	how can I possibly work with extjs from clojurescript
12:37	nz-	mindbender1: i think it should be possible, if e
12:37	nz-	if extjs isn't doing anything too tricky
12:37	nz-	mindbender1: for example clojurescript works just fine with query
12:38	nz-	with jquery that is
12:38	mindbender1	nz-: their codebase really looks clean. where do I throw a thrid party library
12:39	mindbender1	*third
12:40	mindbender1	nz-: I suppose the advice here still holds: http://lukevanderhart.com/2011/09/30/using-javascript-and-clojurescript.html
12:45	dgrnbrg	hey, what is the recommended way for making UIs with clojurescript?
12:46	dgrnbrg	should I just use goog.ui through the FFI, or are there other libraries I should look into?
12:53	nz-	mindbender1: I used the same guide. there may be some problems with extern files if you want to use <script src="javascript.file.somewhere.js"> style for referencing external libs
12:54	nz-	mindbender1: there are some tools that can generate externs file for you, but they many times fail if library is using some weird techniques.
12:54	mindbender1	nz-: please share
12:54	nz-	i am using this library: http://leaflet.cloudmade.com/
12:55	nz-	problems occur if you use google closure compiler with advanced compilation that does name munging
12:56	mindbender1	nz-: how did you get around all this
12:59	nz-	i made externs file like this https://github.com/jsyrjala/ruuvi-ui/blob/master/closure-js/externs/leaflet-externs.js, first it is generated by a tool, but then I noticed that many of the methods are missing, so I added them manually
13:00	nz-	leaflet is using some kind of inheritance thing that the tool didn't understand
13:03	SegFaultAX\|work2	postgresql continues to amaze me every single day.
13:03	nz-	and this is only problem if you use advanced optimization. if you use simple or no optimization, everything works out of the box
13:05	edw	Anyone having problems with nrepl spontaneously throwing an exception when typing into the repl?
13:06	edw	"Unable to resolve symbol if-let"...
13:06	mindbender1	nz-: thanks a lot for sharing. This would make work a lot easier
13:06	edw	In Emacs.
13:07	nz-	dgrnbrg: i don't know about recommended but I am using enfocus for templating and probably jquery for the rest (via jayq clojure wrapper)
13:08	technomancy	edw: yeah, I think that's fixed in master
13:09	edw	For nrepl?
13:10	dgrnbrg	nz-: i'll check out jayq
13:13	mindbender1	edw: I get that error attimes what I do is to quickly put the cursor into the emacs repl buffer and delete the line very quickly
13:14	Frozenlock	seancorfield: In your clj-time library, is it possible to try multiple built-in-formatters simultaneously? I would like to parse some strings of the form "2012-09-10T00:00:00.000-04:00" and others "2012-09-10" and "2012/09/10".
13:18	edw	mindbender1, technomancy: Do you know what the problem or issue was? I'm looking through nrepl.el's change history and I don't see anything on point. (Or is the change in nrepl proper?)
13:19	mindbender1	edw: I'm not really sure but it must be related to not properly handling some input but take technomancy's advice on faith
13:20	mindbender1	I've upgraded too and I've not seen the error since then
13:21	technomancy	I haven't been following the development closely so I don't know what was behind the error
13:21	edw	Are we talking, again, about nrepl or nrepl.el?
13:21	mindbender1	edw: it's nrepl.el
13:21	edw	Ah. OK. Thank you.
13:22	technomancy	something about having to keep an emacs var in sync with the clojure-side namespace
13:23	technomancy	not a big fan of that approach =\
13:24	edw	The problem seems to appear wheneverI use symbols with funky names, specifically "-main", those that's completely anecdotal.
13:24	edw	s/those/though/
13:35	dgrnbrg	nz-: when you use jayq with clojurescript, do you use jqueryui as well?
13:35	pjb3	2 things in Clojure that I got bit by today because they didn't do what I thought they would
13:35	pjb3	(= false) # => true
13:35	pjb3	(:foo :bar) # => nil
13:36	pjb3	both of those feel like they should result in an error to me
13:36	pjb3	I mean, I guess I get that = means "are all of these things equal"
13:36	nz-	dgrnbrg: no, not yet atleast. i am using twitter bootstrap though for css/layout
13:36	pjb3	pair those together and you get
13:36	edw	pjb, I strongly disagree with the = thing, but I'm sort of "WTF?!" about the (:a :b) => true thing.
13:36	pjb3	(if = (:foo :bar) ...
13:36	pjb3	oops :)
13:37	chouser	Also: (when = :foo :bar (prn "the same!"))
13:41	Sgeo	edw, what (:a :b) => true thing?
13:42	noidi	pjb3, `get` returns `nil` if it can't look up the given key in the given map (or if the "map" is not an associative data structure). keywords are functions that look themselves up in the map provided as an argument.
13:43	noidi	given that `:bar` is not an associative data structure, looking up `:foo` in `:bar` returns `nil`
13:43	edw	,(:a :b)
13:43	clojurebot	nil
13:43	noidi	hence, (:foo :bar) ;= nil
13:43	edw	Err, I meant that.
13:43	pjb3	noidi: it's the (or is the "map" is not an associative data structure) part that I disagree with there
13:44	noidi	pjb3, I agree that it should throw an exception intead
13:44	pjb3	throwing an exception in that case makes more sense than returning nil
13:44	pjb3	,(:foo nil)
13:44	clojurebot	nil
13:44	pjb3	I guess that makes sense though
13:45	noidi	and in general I disagree with Clojure's policy of only dealing with happy paths and having undefined behavior (tm) for invalid inputs
13:47	noidi	I've read somewhere that the current Clojure runtime forgoes error checking in order not to slow down the happy paths
13:47	noidi	s/error checking/input validation/
13:47	noidi	and, IIRC, at least at some point Rich has had plans for a separate debug runtime that does more validation
13:48	konr_trab	Is there a "split-when"-like function, that would behave like (split-when #(> % 2) [1 2 3 2 3 2 1]) -> [[1 2] [3 2] [3 2 1]]?
13:50	joegallo_	,(partition-by #(> % 2) [1 2 3 2 3 2 1])
13:50	clojurebot	((1 2) (3) (2) (3) (2 1))
13:50	joegallo_	and then combine the results in twos
13:51	joegallo_	(is one approach, there's probably a better one, though)
13:54	xeqi	,(partition-by #(= % 3) [1 2 3 2 3 2 1])
13:54	clojurebot	((1 2) (3) (2) (3) (2 1))
13:54	xeqi	ah, right
14:05	seancorfield	note to cark S11001001 - I raised ALGOM-4 on clojure-dev and Konrad responded pretty quickly - happy now your issue is addressed? :)
14:07	djanatyn	I don't understand how swap! works with atoms
14:07	S11001001	seancorfield: not really, since I liked the old behavior, and would rather TMACRO-1 be fixed :/
14:08	bja	cloudsearch
14:08	cark	seancorfield: yes, thank you !
14:08	hyPiRion	,(split-with #(= % 3) [1 2 3 2 3 2 1])
14:08	clojurebot	[() (1 2 3 2 3 ...)]
14:08	hyPiRion	,(split-with #(not= % 3) [1 2 3 2 3 2 1])
14:08	clojurebot	[(1 2) (3 2 3 2 1)]
14:08	cark	and sorry to S11001001 =)
14:09	joegallo_	djanatyn: how so?
14:09	joegallo_	you don't know how the implementation makes it do what it does, or you don't understand why swap! might be a useful thing to do?
14:09	joegallo_	that is, please elaborate.
14:10	joegallo_	also, if there was a question you wanted to ask, then just ask it. ;)
14:13	djanatyn	joegallo_: sorry, had to take a break
14:14	djanatyn	joegallo_: so when you use the swap! function, it take the atom's value and does (apply f atom-value)
14:15	djanatyn	and then it assigns that to the atom, right?
14:15	joegallo_	kindof
14:15	djanatyn	well, say I did (def foo (atom [1 2 3]))
14:15	djanatyn	(swap! foo +)
14:15	joegallo_	(apply f atom-value ANY ARGS YOU PROVIDED)
14:15	djanatyn	(apply + [1 2 3]) is 6
14:15	joegallo_	think of it this way:
14:16	joegallo_	(def f (atom []))
14:16	xeqi	,(let [x (atom [1 2 3])] (swap! x +) @x)
14:16	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: Cannot cast clojure.lang.PersistentVector to java.lang.Number>
14:16	seancorfield	S11001001: sign a CA, submit a patch :) at least if you have a signed CA you can join clojure-dev and at least raise the issue there to get feedback...
14:17	xeqi	,(let [x (atom [1 2 3])] (swap! x (partial apply +)) @x)
14:17	clojurebot	6
14:17	joegallo_	(swap! f conj 1)
14:17	joegallo_	it will (conj [] 1) -> [1] and makes that the new value of the atom.
14:17	cark	,(let [x (atom [1 2 3])] (swap! x (partial apply +)) @x)
14:17	clojurebot	6
14:17	djanatyn	oh, cool
14:18	djanatyn	oooooh! so I can do (swap! some-map-atom-thing assoc :foo nil)
14:19	joegallo_	bingo
14:19	djanatyn	that's useful!
14:19	joegallo_	that's why you want swap!
14:19	djanatyn	thanks for explaining it
14:19	joegallo_	np
14:25	pjb3	What's the easiest way to subtract one vec/seq from another?
14:26	gfredericks	,(map - [1 2 3] [50 0 -6])
14:26	clojurebot	(-49 2 9)
14:27	Frozenlock	clojure.set/difference ?
14:27	casion	subtract in what way?
14:27	gfredericks	indeed
14:27	Hodapp	set difference and vector difference are very different things
14:27	gfredericks	what is vector difference? multiset difference?
14:28	pjb3	I mean get all the elements of a seq/vec that aren't in another
14:28	Hodapp	gfredericks: what you did is vector subtraction
14:28	pjb3	gfredericks: that looks good
14:28	gfredericks	Hodapp: oh you mean vector like math-vector
14:28	pjb3	er, not subtract though, I guess include?
14:29	Hodapp	pjb3: you need set difference, which I think is what Frozenlock gave
14:29	emezeske	pjb3: That sounds like a set union
14:29	casion	you want the union of 2 vectors?
14:29	Hodapp	union is something else
14:29	gfredericks	yeah but you have to convert them to sets first
14:29	pjb3	no, the difference
14:29	gfredericks	to use the set functions
14:29	gfredericks	,(clojure.set/difference #{7 38 3 5 4 2} #{4 38})
14:29	pjb3	you don't have to convert them to sets
14:29	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.set>
14:30	gfredericks	&(clojure.set/difference #{7 38 3 5 4 2} #{4 38})
14:30	lazybot	⇒ #{2 3 5 7}
14:30	pjb3	but I guess that is the easiest way
14:30	gfredericks	&(clojure.set/difference [7 38 3 5 4 2] [4 38])
14:30	lazybot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentVector cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IPersistentSet
14:30	gfredericks	pjb3: to use clojure.set I meant
14:30	emezeske	,(keep #{1 2 3} [42 5 1 8 2 89 3])
14:30	clojurebot	(1 2 3)
14:30	casion	Hodapp: isn't set difference the complement of the union of sets?
14:30	emezeske	,(keep #{1 2 3} [42 5 1 8 2 89])
14:30	clojurebot	(1 2)
14:31	emezeske	pjb3: ^
14:31	emezeske	If you really don't want to convert to a set
14:32	aperiodic	casion: that's the symmetric difference
14:34	aperiodic	casion: assuming you meant intersection, not union
14:34	casion	aperiodic: I meant union
14:35	casion	I'm researching it atm, I was pretty sure how I understood it was correct… but I wouldn't be surprised it it wasn't
14:37	XPherior	Can Noir's defpage take a docstring?
14:37	XPherior	Having trouble making it parse.
14:37	muhoo	something bizarre has happened to my brain. stuff like (apply map vector (partition 3 (range 10))) is just rolling off my fingers without my thinking about it too much
14:37	Hodapp	casion: perhaps, but it's certainly not the same as union except maybe when the null set is involved
14:38	aperiodic	casion: oh. well, the complement of the union is just everything in the universe that's not in any of your sets. that doesn't have much to do with the difference between your sets.
14:39	muhoo	XPherior: i don't think so
14:40	XPherior	muhoo: Boooo :(
14:40	muhoo	XPherior: if you look at the code, it has a defn ~fn-name. there's a map there for metadata (::url, ::action, etc) , but docstring doesn't seem among them.
14:40	uvtc	muhoo: `(map vec (partition 3 (range 10)))`
14:40	muhoo	uvtc: even better, thanks :-)
14:40	XPherior	muhoo: Hum, okay. Thanks for the info. :)
14:41	muhoo	XPherior: my personal experience is, if you start banging into walls in noir, blow it off and just use straight compojure
14:41	casion	aperiodic: I think maybe I phrased myself wrong, I thought set difference was the union of A and the complement of B
14:42	XPherior	muhoo: Yeeeah, I want to. This was started in Noir by someone else.. Maybe I should just go ahead and do it anyway
14:44	muhoo	uvtc: though, what i was doing, was swapping rows and columns in the array, which (apply map vector) does
14:45	aperiodic	casion: are you sure you're not confusing union with intersection? it can be defined as the intersection of A and B's complement
14:46	casion	aperiodic: ah. I was mixing them up
14:53	nbeloglazov	What editor (not IDE, vim or emacs) for windows has clojure syntax higlighting?
14:54	nbeloglazov	And free
14:54	casion	sublimetext does
14:54	casion	but it is not free
14:54	emezeske	maybe notepad++?
14:55	casion	and those are some weird requirements?
14:55	casion	why can't you use anything else?
14:56	S11001001	nbeloglazov: install cygwin, x, gnome, gedit, maybe gedit has clojure
14:56	S11001001	nbeloglazov: or maybe relax some of those constraints
14:56	Frozenlock	Not Vim or Emacs is a tight constraints.
14:56	nbeloglazov	I want it to be easy. Emacs and vim aren't easy. And IDE has too much stuff in them. I want just leiningen + editor.
14:57	casion	netbeans and intellij are pretty easy
14:57	casion	and so is eclipse
14:57	casion	(and emacs and vim OM)
14:57	casion	imo*
14:57	nbeloglazov	casion: and what is not easy?
14:57	Hodapp	nbeloglazov: that's all I want too, but lein-tarsier was kind of a rough route.
14:57	uvtc	muhoo: Ah! Thanks for pointing that out! Passing `map` multiple coll's has it pass one from each into the func you gave it.
14:57	casion	you can just close all the side-bars in eclipse and treat it like a 'text editor' if you want
14:58	Hodapp	the Clojure support in IntelliJ IDEA still seems a bit buggy when Leiningen is added
14:58	casion	nbeloglazov: in this context, no idea.
14:58	muhoo	uvtc: yes, that's the magic that was delighting me. map takes several collections and threads them together. awesome.
15:00	casion	nbeloglazov: appears that jedit has clojure syntax highlighting
15:00	casion	nbeloglazov: http://plugins.jedit.org/plugins/?Clojure
15:00	uvtc	casion, nbeloglazov : I tried jedit a while ago, but indentation didn't work as I'd hoped.
15:01	casion	you can treat emacsw32 like a 'normal text editor' if you so wished
15:01	nbeloglazov	I want to teach some clojure at my university. And thinking what environment will be best for windows users. I thought leiningen + editor. Easy to install and use, good for start. Every IDE comes with it's own plugins for clojure and I fear to get lost trying to handle all of them.
15:01	nbeloglazov	Thanks I'll check jedit
15:02	casion	nbeloglazov: why not just suggest eclipse? it works on the 3 major platforms nearly identically
15:02	chouser	nbeloglazov: you might consider lighttable
15:03	pandeiro	how do i get project-specific profiles to load when i am using nrepl in emacs?
15:03	muhoo	nbeloglazov: indeed, lighttable sounds ideal for that application
15:03	nbeloglazov	casion: I can't say why eclipse is better than intellij or netbeans :) Personally I'm intellij guy.
15:04	nbeloglazov	chouser: is it free? I remember some stuff about licensing on kickstarter
15:05	chouser	nbeloglazov: you can use it for free. I'm not sure if there are any constraints but I imagine the authors would be happy to support educational use if any extra permission were required.
15:05	uvtc	nbeloglazov: recent lightnable news http://www.chris-granger.com/2012/08/17/light-table-reaches-010/
15:07	nbeloglazov	I haven't played a lot with lighttable. Does it have integration with lein?
15:08	chouser	nbeloglazov: indeed lein is now built in
15:08	nbeloglazov	chouser: hm. Nice. I'll take a look right now. Thanks a lot
15:08	xeqi	pandeiro: you're going to need to use `lein with-profiles ... nrepl :headless` and M-x nrepl
15:09	pandeiro	xeqi: hm ok
15:09	pandeiro	is the idiomatic way to do it providing a {:user {:injections ... }} in the project.clj for each different project? easier than creating special keys in ~/.lein/profiles.clj and somehow loading them when firing up nrepl?
15:09	uvtc	nbeloglazov: If installing Emacs 24 on MSWindows isn't too bad, you might try Emacs. Here's a little Clojure + Emacs article I wrote which you might find useful: http://www.unexpected-vortices.com/clojure/10-minute-emacs-for-clojure.html (it's aimed at GNU/Linux users though).
15:12	ivan	La Clojure needs nREPL
15:12	nbeloglazov	uvtc: Thanks, I'll include it to list of available options. But going to make plain editor or lighttable as main option.
15:14	uvtc	nbeloglazov: You can use Emacs as a plain editor.
15:14	xeqi	pandeiro: what are you using in :injections? I wouldn't see much point in the :user profile in a project.clj vs just using the keys normally
15:16	pandeiro	xeqi: i just would like to cd to a project dir, open emacs, and nrepl-jack-in with it custom loading some ns's depending on the project
15:26	melipone	hello! how do I represent a complex number in clojure?
15:27	chouser	melipone: get a java lib that supports complex numbers, or if you want to roll your own use a vector of two numbers or a deftype
15:31	ordnungswidrig	slightly off topic: is anybody using emacs with multiple frames in a tiling wm?
15:31	muhoo	ordnungswidrig: i am. ion3
15:32	casion	ordnungswidrig: I do in dwm
15:32	xeqi	I do in xmonad
15:33	ordnungswidrig	muhoo: do you have special configuration like oneoneone?
15:33	ordnungswidrig	to avoid new emacs windows and force new frames, global minibuffer or like that?
15:34	muhoo	ordnungswidrig: my .emacs has evolved over the past 8 years, i don't even remmeber what everythign in it does anymore :-) but i have (setq pop-up-windows nil) for sure
15:34	ordnungswidrig	g
15:35	ordnungswidrig	muhoo: I wonder how you'd perform with emacs -q
15:36	muhoo	i would be completely helpless
15:36	muhoo	many of my keybindings are non-standard
15:36	casion	I've taken special care to be -q compatible
15:36	muhoo	actually, if i'm on a machine where i don't have my .emacs around, i just use vim instead.
15:37	casion	though I'd probably trip up on my constant abuse of hippie-exand
15:37	Sgeo	hippie-expand?
15:37	ordnungswidrig	muhoo: haha
15:37	casion	Sgeo: http://emacswiki.org/emacs/HippieExpand
15:37	uvtc	muhoo: Just curious, do you have a binding for scrolling the window up/down by one line? I use M-n/p for that. Surprised Emacs doesn't come ootb with keybindings for those.
15:37	ordnungswidrig	emacs users adopt to there random choice of emacs features and extensions
15:38	ordnungswidrig	uvtc: you can bind the scroll-lock key to a minor mode that remaps C-n C-p :-)
15:38	muhoo	uvtc: i have scroll-up-command bount to <next> it seems, which is downarrow
15:38	ordnungswidrig	uvtc: finally a use for that key
15:39	uvtc	Not sure my keyboard has a "next" key ... hm...
15:39	muhoo	i dunno. my .emacs, .ion config, and .Xmodmap are so tangled and intertwingled, i'd be lost without all of them.
15:39	casion	not even the space cadet keyboard has a next key
15:39	uvtc	ordnungswidrig: I think I need my C-n/p. :)
15:39	ordnungswidrig	uvtc: no, only remap when scrolllock is activated :)
15:40	muhoo	sorry, not <next>, <down>
15:40	uvtc	ordnungswidrig: Hm. Sounds like you're going modal on us. :)
15:40	casion	uvtc: why would you want to scroll a line at a time?
15:40	ordnungswidrig	uvtc: minor-model, to be exact
15:40	muhoo	and, control+<down> appears to be <next>
15:40	casion	I can't say that I've ever had that desire, so I'm curious
15:40	uvtc	casion: I guess it's the artist in me; I like to frame what I'm working on just so. :)
15:41	ordnungswidrig	hmm, C-down is forward-paragraph, I did not know
15:41	muhoo	i think you could spend 30 years in emacs and still come across stuff you didn't know.e
15:42	uvtc	muhoo: Oh, I see. But then I'd have to move my hands off the home row to scroll the window around. :) Wouldn't want to have to resort to that... :)
15:42	muhoo	it's not an editor, it's a lifetime-long easter-egg-hunt
15:42	ordnungswidrig	isn't there a "did you know?" mode?
15:42	casion	uvtc: why don't you use C-l then?
15:42	casion	recenters the buffer on the point
15:42	uvtc	casion: Oh, certainly. That too.
15:43	pandeiro	how can i make a ns (say foo.core) expose a few other ns' fns when it is used?
15:43	ordnungswidrig	pandeiro: you'd have to alias them into foo.core
15:43	muhoo	pandeiro: (ns foo.core (:use [something else :only [bar baz]])) ?
15:44	casion	oh neat, I didn't know C-l could take an argument
15:44	ordnungswidrig	the other day I tried to build a minor mode to pin buffers based on major mode or regex on name to a (emacs) window. is the anything like that, but that actually works?
15:44	pandeiro	muhoo: no i think aliasing is what i'm after
15:44	casion	that's useful
15:44	ordnungswidrig	casion: like center as 5th line from top?
15:44	casion	ordnungswidrig: yes
15:45	naeg	how can I apply a vector of functions (let's say [print println print]) on a vector of data in squence (e.g. ["hi" "richard" "regards"])?
15:45	pandeiro	i want to have a ns that i can 'use' just to load an assortment of different stuff into the current repl ns
15:45	ordnungswidrig	naeg: ,(doc for)
15:45	casion	naeg: juxt?
15:45	ordnungswidrig	&(doc doseq)
15:45	lazybot	⇒ "Macro ([seq-exprs & body]); Repeatedly executes body (presumably for side-effects) with bindings and filtering as provided by \"for\". Does not retain the head of the sequence. Returns nil."
15:46	muhoo	casion: https://www.refheap.com/paste/4991
15:47	naeg	ordnungswidrig: it's not possible with mapv, is it?
15:47	naeg	(or with map) - in fact want to return a vector at the end
15:48	casion	,((apply juxt [:a :b]) {:a 1 :b 2 :c 3 :d 4})
15:48	clojurebot	[1 2]
15:52	muhoo	,(select-keys {:a 1 :b 2 :c 3 :d 4} [:a :b])
15:52	clojurebot	{:b 2, :a 1}
15:53	muhoo	,(-> {:a 1 :b 2 :c 3 :d 4} (select-keys [:a :b]) vals)
15:53	clojurebot	(2 1)
15:53	abalone	is there a clojurescript channel? or might i ask an easy question here?
15:53	gfredericks	ask!
15:54	abalone	i'd like to return two pieces of data from my cljs fn. like ["a" "b"]. how does js code refer to the first part and the second part?
15:55	gfredericks	you're dealing with the return value from raw javascript?
15:55	abalone	yeah.
15:55	abalone	raw js is the codemirror part
15:55	ivan	abalone: it'd be an Array in JavaScript with a [0] and [1]
15:55	abalone	myFn(args)[0] ?
15:55	gfredericks	easiest thing is to figure out how to return an array instead of a vector
15:55	gfredericks	I would not expect ivan's suggestion to work
15:55	abalone	it doesn't for me
15:56	ivan	right, I assumed you did the conversion already ;)
15:56	abalone	oh, how?
15:56	naeg	casion: juxt seems not to be what I want. I want: take first func of func-vector, apply to first data in dataset, take second ...
15:56	ivan	there's a cljs->js somewhere
15:56	muhoo	naeg: reduce?
15:56	jrajav	Is 4clojure.com an old site or is it just down right now?
15:56	broquaint	Just down right now, jrajav.
15:57	naeg	muhoo: nope, the function should change in sequence like the dataset - not always same func
15:57	naeg	I guess I have to do this with doseq
15:57	metellus	,(map #(%1 %2) [inc dec] [1 1])
15:57	clojurebot	(2 0)
15:57	ivan	4clojure Registrar: GODADDY.COM, LLC
15:57	jrajav	Just came back up :)
15:57	metellus	something like that?
15:57	naeg	metellus: seems right :o
15:58	metellus	I think there's something nicer than #(%1 %2) that you can use, though
15:58	naeg	tried around with map, but didn't get it to work, let's see
15:59	muhoo	naeg: ##(map #(%1 %2) [identity (partial str "foo-")] [2 "baz"])
15:59	lazybot	⇒ (2 "foo-baz")
15:59	naeg	metellus: how do you mean nicer? I could use (fn [func data] (func data)) instead
15:59	naeg	muhoo: yeah, that's what he came up with now too, thanks
15:59	muhoo	clearer maybe ##(map #(%1 %2) [inc dec] [2 4])
15:59	lazybot	⇒ (3 3)
15:59	metellus	naeg: I think there's an actual built-in function that does it, but I could be wrong
15:59	muhoo	metellus: doh, i was just a minute too late :-)
16:02	hyPiRion	,(map reduce [inc dec] [0 1] (repeat nil))
16:02	clojurebot	(0 1)
16:02	muhoo	i think there's a function in useful that does it
16:02	hyPiRion	oops
16:03	abalone	ivan: you mean cljs-37 in jira?
16:04	hyPiRion	,(map apply [inc dec] [1 2] (repeat nil))
16:04	clojurebot	(2 1)
16:04	hyPiRion	eventually, if you're not scared of it
16:04	hyPiRion	(map (comp eval list) [inc dec] [1 2])
16:04	ivan	abalone: yeah. I think someone also might have an implementation in some CLJS library. I forgot which.
16:05	ivan	github search might find it
16:05	hyPiRion	,(map trampoline [inc dec] [1 2])
16:05	clojurebot	(2 1)
16:05	hyPiRion	Well, maybe not idiomatic, but hey.
16:06	ivan	abalone: hmm, maybe just (array)
16:07	gfredericks	array looks like it works on himera
16:08	gtrak	hyPiRion: lol...
16:09	gtrak	what the heck is going on there?
16:09	hyPiRion	going on where?
16:09	gfredericks	,(map trampoline [constantly dec] [1 2])
16:09	clojurebot	(1 1)
16:09	gtrak	the last two examples look like some serious obfuscation
16:09	hyPiRion	,(map trampoline [comp apply] [+ -])
16:09	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (1) passed to: core$apply>
16:10	llasram	&(map deliver [inc dec] [0 1])
16:10	lazybot	⇒ (1 0)
16:10	hyPiRion	,(map trampoline [comp complement] [+ #([%]0)])
16:10	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (0) passed to: sandbox$eval426$fn>
16:11	hyPiRion	ahh.
16:11	gtrak	deliver is kind of an apply
16:12	llasram	Only as an implementation detail. Depending on that behavior is probably a way to end up crying later :-)
16:12	hyPiRion	,(map trampoline [comp some-fn every-pred] [+ * -])
16:12	clojurebot	(0 nil true)
16:12	gtrak	except it will never change b/c it will break existing code ;-)
16:12	gtrak	i guess it does say 'alpha'
16:13	hyPiRion	gtrak: Code will never break if you don't upgrade. :)
16:13	gtrak	any clojure 1.2 stalwarts in existence?
16:15	hyPiRion	I left 1.2 when I found out that ##(#{2} (denominator 1/2)) returned nil in 1.2 and lower.
16:15	lazybot	⇒ 2
16:16	gtrak	oh, that's a little weird, I would've that that would work
16:16	gtrak	since 1.2 had rationals and stuff
16:17	gtrak	/s/that/thought/
16:18	hyPiRion	well, the issue was that the denominator was a bigint, while the element in the set was a Long
16:18	gtrak	ah, .hashCode
16:24	naeg	how can I make core.logic available in my repl? when there is no project.clj?
16:25	gtrak	naeg: lein2 supports some kind of default profile, but in lein1 I would just make a project for stuff like that, it's no big deal
16:27	naeg	glad I'm on arch ;)
16:30	gtrak	I'm not really a fan of package maintainers decisions on anything to do with java :-)
16:31	gtrak	though recently I noticed ubuntu faking out a maven repo in its installation of dependency libs for java applications
16:31	naeg	gtrak: that's why I'm using openjdk 1.6 from the AUR and not jre 1.7 from official
16:31	gtrak	why not 1.7? it's quite a bit faster
16:32	technomancy	gtrak: is it a transparent caching proxy?
16:32	naeg	I have no idea why - but lighttable doesn't work with java 1.7 (for me)
16:32	gtrak	technomancy: I didn't dig into it really
16:32	technomancy	gtrak: that's what fedora is doing, and it sounds like an OK idea though the effort/payoff is really really low
16:32	naeg	reported it, but nobody seems to care about the issue
16:32	gtrak	technomancy: I googled and this came up: http://wiki.debian.org/Java/MavenRepoSpec
16:33	technomancy	ugh; yeah, mvn and apt are fundamentally incompatible; they have conflicting design goals
16:33	technomancy	getting JVM libraries through apt is stupid unless it's just to support an application.
16:34	gtrak	technomancy: about 4 years ago I tried to use eclipse that way and never looked back.
16:34	ordnungswidrig	technomancy: i wasted many days some years ago, trying to even make maven itself go into debian.
16:34	gtrak	now anything java related except the jdk itself is a script in ~/bin
16:34	technomancy	ordnungswidrig: well that's different; it's an application.
16:35	ordnungswidrig	technomancy: indead, but it showed the deep madnes of maven. you could not compile it from sources. :-)
16:35	ordnungswidrig	FTBFS
16:36	technomancy	ouch
16:36	ordnungswidrig	technomancy: leiningen would be easy, it's a shellscript :)
16:37	technomancy	not really; leiningen needs itself to build
16:37	technomancy	https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/issues/745 =(
16:37	llasram	Self-hosting is a feature!
16:37	ordnungswidrig	hmm, I'm not familiar with the currenct debian packaging requirements, I must confess.
16:37	gtrak	it's nice for it to be in the repo for people to try, but any serious user is going to do it manually probably
16:38	technomancy	gtrak: the existing deb for lein1 works wonderfully
16:38	ordnungswidrig	gtrak: there might be applications that need leiningen to be built from source.
16:38	gtrak	ordnungswidrig: :-) one can only hope
16:38	ordnungswidrig	that was my motivation for trying to package maven.
16:38	technomancy	I've heard horror stories about people trying to use the one in arch and macports though.
16:38	technomancy	brew's a bit of a mess too
16:39	technomancy	but the .deb is rock-solid
16:40	ordnungswidrig	technomancy: talk about maven or lein?
16:40	technomancy	ordnungswidrig: lein specifically, though I never had trouble with maven back in the day
16:41	ordnungswidrig	I used the curl method :)
16:43	technomancy	yeah, it's just one more hurdle for potential newcomers though
16:44	ordnungswidrig	especially on windows.
16:44	technomancy	of course if they're really interested they won't care, but for someone who's on the edge, the fact that they can't just use apt-get may just turn into, "Oh, but it does have Haskell; maybe I should try that instead..." =)
16:45	ordnungswidrig	sounds like a well tought decision.
16:45	gtrak	ha, maybe I'll just drop clojure and learn Haskell....
16:46	technomancy	well if it was just up to me I don't think I'd have the stamina to untangle the requirements for debian packaging, but luckily I have a helpful DD
16:46	ordnungswidrig	well, they opt for node.js, I suppose.
16:46	technomancy	gtrak: I know you've thought of it; don't lie =D
16:46	gtrak	too bad I actually have a job doing clojure!
16:47	technomancy	haskell programs boot in like zero milliseconds
16:47	gtrak	oh well... debian supports haskell way better
16:47	ordnungswidrig	haskell will be the first language ported onto a quantum computer.
16:48	Hodapp	bahahahaha quantum computer
16:48	ordnungswidrig	lisp will be second, as soon as somebody figures out how to entangle to cons cells
16:48	emezeske	gtrak: Why do you need debian to support clojure? Doesn't lein take care of that?
16:49	gtrak	emezeske: total sarcasm, sorry :-). I'm fine installing lein manually.
16:49	ordnungswidrig	emezeske: lein needs clojure as a dependency.
16:49	technomancy	emezeske: installing by hand is kind of crappy when you're used to a good package manager
16:49	technomancy	even if it's not much work, it's the principle of the thing
16:49	gtrak	but that's because I've learned to expect anything java-related to be borked on a package-manager
16:50	technomancy	emezeske: "Same reason we don't wear animal skins or hunt the wooly mammoth! Because we're not savages." http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2005/06/06
16:50	thorbjornDX	hah, I just typed :wq into a repl
16:50	ordnungswidrig	gtrak: that is a good summary :)
16:50	emezeske	gtrak: Oh, heh
16:50	emezeske	technomancy: lol
16:50	hyPiRion	thorbjornDX: Oh, just wait until you do C-x C-c to get out of chrome.
16:50	emezeske	technomancy: I did not notice gtrak's sarcasm -- I thought he wanted to manage like clojars jars via debian's packaging
16:50	metellus	thorbjornDX: it's valid clojure!
16:51	thorbjornDX	metellus: which is why I laughed :D
16:51	technomancy	oh heavens no
16:51	technomancy	but applications, absolutely
16:51	gtrak	emezeske: I don't care either way, I'm not on JVM because it's desktop app story
16:52	gtrak	it lost that fight a long time ago
16:54	SegFaultAX\|work2	Is there a good way to start a stand-alone nailgun server outside of a clojure project?
16:55	muhoo	i vaguely remember hearing of a lein2 or nrepl/reply/something plugin that'll pprint all the output from every form in the nrepl?
16:55	denlab	4clojure down ?
16:58	muhoo	where's the right place for that? i suppose i could hack up some elisp that throws (pprint ...) around every form it sends to the nrepl server, but not sure if that'd be the right thing
17:00	ordnungswidrig	muhoo: i think nrepl has something like middleware that could wrap the expr and pprint the result
17:01	technomancy	there's an example in `lein help sample` of such a middleware
17:09	TimMc	denlab: Their registrar is under DDoS right now, so I wouldn't be too surprised.
17:12	SegFaultAX\|work2	Is it just me or has Hickey given the same basic talk about Datomic under like 3 or 4 different titles?
17:15	muhoo	technomancy: thanks
17:18	naeg	core.logic: am I getting insane or how can this be true: http://bpaste.net/show/JRAEZ5WKPcozJ3NNouAj/
17:18	gtrak	hey guys, when's ballpark date for clojure 1.5?
17:18	Raynes	2050
17:18	gtrak	hmm....
17:19	gtrak	Raynes: standard deviation?
17:20	gtrak	how about, is there a way I can work around this issue in 1.4?: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1034
17:20	muhoo	ah, :nrepl-middleware [my.nrepl.thing/wrap-amazingness ...
17:20	ordnungswidrig	naeg: nice
17:21	naeg	ordnungswidrig: Am I not insane? This should not be right at all, right?
17:22	ordnungswidrig	naeg: (l/+fd d 1 c) should not match on 3 / 1
17:22	naeg	ordnungswidrig: yeah, that's really strange. smells like I have to report an issue
17:22	ordnungswidrig	naeg: I'm no expert in core.logic, though. mabybe in the fd [1 3 4 5] is (= 3 ( 1 + 1))
17:25	naeg	ordnungswidrig: but that wouldn't make much sense imo
17:26	samuelj	Hey, i'm trying to get started with compojure and I get this error on lein compile:
17:26	samuelj	Exception in thread "main" java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate ring/middleware/head__init.class or ring/middleware/head.clj on classpath: , compiling:(route.clj:1)
17:26	samuelj	I'll post my source in a pastie, i'd be so grateful for any help! Really very confused :s
17:27	ordnungswidrig	naeg: for a fd [:foo :bar :baz :qux] (= :baz (+ 1 :bar)) makes sense.
17:27	ordnungswidrig	naeg: in a way
17:27	weavejester	samuelj: It's likely one of your dependencies is requiring an older version of Ring, and is overriding Compojure's
17:28	djanatyn	https://gist.github.com/3693973 -- I was having a lot of fun slacking off in class earlier today
17:28	naeg	ordnungswidrig: but +fd is for addition/subtraction, not "chosing the next/previous element of the fd"
17:28	samuelj	weavejester, thanks! How can I resolve it? My project.clj is here: http://pastebin.com/NKmpKDSm
17:28	djanatyn	I played around with records and made a little grid/entity thingy
17:28	weavejester	samuelj: Normal "soft" dependencies are resolved depth first - the closer the dependency to your project, the more priority it has.
17:28	djanatyn	it was nice to play with records
17:28	weavejester	samuelj: But occassionally there will be "hard" dependencies that specify an exact version - these can cause problems.
17:29	djanatyn	is there anything that I could change that you notice immediately, to make it more idiomatic clojure?
17:29	djanatyn	I didn't use protocols because I didn't really see the need to
17:29	samuelj	weavejester can I not specify versions and let lein resolve them?
17:29	djanatyn	I think that was possibly a bad idea
17:29	weavejester	samuelj: Oh, but in this case you've explicitly put the wrong version in your project file
17:30	weavejester	samuelj: Compojure 1.1.3 depends on Ring 1.1.0 or above.
17:30	samuelj	ah ok! thanks :)
17:30	djanatyn	I already see some things I can change, like (empty? (filter #() .. )) to (some #() .. )
17:30	samuelj	so I'll check required versions in future :)
17:30	weavejester	samuelj: The latest version is 1.1.5. Your Ring dep in your project file overrides the one Compojure adds.
17:31	weavejester	samuelj: lein deps :tree is a good way of checking deps
17:31	samuelj	sweet, thanks weavejester
17:34	Raynes	uvtc: Dejected. lol
17:34	Raynes	Made me smile.
17:34	Raynes	<3
17:34	uvtc	No sad docstrings.
17:34	uvtc	:)
17:35	Raynes	I'll let technomancy be the mediator on that one. :p
17:35	Raynes	It looks like he took most of my cute out anyways, so probably want to merge this too.
17:36	technomancy	I dunno, the no-jure thing was more like deranged yelling =)
17:37	technomancy	deranged in a good way though
17:37	technomancy	but I like the notion of being able to do `rgrep FIXME .` after generating a project
17:37	Raynes	FIXME: I don't do a whole lot
17:37	Raynes	:P
17:37	Raynes	Seriously though, I don't mind.
17:37	uvtc	:( docstring doesn't feel good about self.
17:37	Raynes	Whatever you think is best.
17:38	muhoo	i'd suggest prohibiting projectin names with "-clj" or "clj-"
17:38	uvtc	FIXME: you're going to love the docstring that gets written here!
17:38	technomancy	muhoo: strongly tempted =)
17:38	technomancy	maybe at least emit a warning
17:39	Raynes	muhoo, technomancy: I'd support that.
17:39	Raynes	clj-stopwiththefuckingnames
17:39	muhoo	a more useful, but perhaps too complected, warning would be if it checked clojars and github to see if the name was already taken.
17:39	technomancy	clj-namesarehard
17:40	uvtc	My understanding was that (A) Clojure libraries that wrap or otherwise provide access to an underlying Java library are often named "clj-foo", and (B) Clojure libraries that provide their own implementation of a known library are often named "foo-clj".
17:40	technomancy	I suspect that's more coincidence than intention
17:40	muhoo	more lik, there's no rationale, and clj- and -clj are just lacks of creativity
17:41	Raynes	If I can't think of a name I just ask technomancy.
17:41	ordnungswidrig	naeg: the examples specify the domain as (domain 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9)
17:41	Raynes	He always gives me a name!
17:41	Raynes	Speaking of...
17:41	scriptor	lein should come with a random name generator
17:41	uvtc	Good idea. I propose we name it clj-random-name-generator.
17:41	muhoo	scriptor: that was the next thing, point them to a list of literary characters. now we're getting real complected.
17:42	hyPiRion	uvtc: What java-library does it wrap?
17:42	uvtc	Or random-name-gen-clj
17:42	hyPiRion	I'd just call it adskdashe
17:42	hyPiRion	that's random.
17:42	muhoo	i knew wa guy who was a sysadmin at disney, where they'd run around raiding new film development teams for character names whenver they got a new batch of servers in.
17:42	uvtc	hyPiRion: My joke seems to have flopped. :)
17:43	muhoo	uvtc: name-generatejure
17:43	naeg	ordnungswidrig: ...so? not getting it
17:43	hyPiRion	muhoo: turn of lein ironic first.
17:44	hyPiRion	on*
17:44	naeg	ordnungswidrig: (apply l/domain [1 3 4 5]) = (l/domain 1 3 4 5)
17:44	ordnungswidrig	naeg: you defined it as (domain [1 3 4 56)
17:44	Moses	Hi, looking for help with this problem : http://pastebin.com/W2r1J38g
17:44	ordnungswidrig	I see.
17:45	muhoo	i have an intensly stupid question: how can i pull the raw ring request out from inside a compojure handler?
17:45	uvtc	muhoo: I've got the best Clojure-name-pun saved for just the right rainy day.
17:45	weavejester	muhoo: (GET "/" request …)
17:45	naeg	ordnungswidrig: (just doing this because there is actually a variable refering to a vec of numbers instead of [1 3 4 5])
17:45	hyPiRion	Moses: You're using ratios, while I guess Perl is using floats
17:45	weavejester	muhoo: Or (GET "/" {:as request} …)
17:46	weavejester	muhoo: Or (GET "/" [:as request] ...)
17:46	ordnungswidrig	Moses: why using mapv where map will do? and add some type hints to force primitive types, not objects for numerics
17:46	muhoo	weavejester: thanks!
17:46	Moses	Thank you hyPiRion and ordnungswidrig
17:47	naeg	ordnungswidrig: but I'm really unsure too whether I misunderstood +fd or infd
17:47	naeg	closing the issue won't be that much of an effort though
17:48	hyPiRion	,(time (double (reduce + (map / (range 5000) (range 1 5001)))))
17:48	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 5271.078789 msecs"
17:48	clojurebot	4990.905491147016
17:48	hyPiRion	,(time (double (reduce + (map / (map double (range 5000)) (map double (range 1 5001))))))
17:48	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 169.688312 msecs"
17:48	clojurebot	4990.905491147009
17:49	gfredericks	off by 5e-12 or so
17:50	Moses	Thank you hyPiRion, got it handling 500k now
17:51	Moses	Mapping the values to doubles makes it very fast.
17:51	naeg	llasram: ping
17:51	hyPiRion	Moses: you're welcome :)
17:56	llasram	naeg: Hey, what's up?
17:57	naeg	llasram: hey, remember that code you wrote up for me today in core.logic? that's not the expected behaviour, is it? http://bpaste.net/show/4XK2kmdJGDq1iyV5OOXv/
17:57	naeg	llasram: I already reported an issue, but I'm unsure: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/LOGIC-52
17:58	llasram	naeg: No, it really isn't. Huh, interesting. I'd actually played a little further, and found the same problem, but thought it only manifested when I was trying to be fancy and construct the sequence of +fd calls as goals in an `everyg`
17:58	llasram	I was going to wait until dnolen was around to ask about it
17:58	llasram	but it really does look like a bug
17:59	llasram	If you have the domain contain one valid sequence, it choose that. Two valid sequences, it choose those. If you have certain particular constructions of domains w/ no valid sequences, then it emits that invalid one
17:59	llasram	So yeah, I'm going with bug
18:00	naeg	llasram: ok, great
18:00	naeg	well, actually bad
18:01	llasram	But you could try to track down the bug and fix it, improving the software ecosystem for everyone!
18:01	llasram	Every bug is an opportunity
18:01	gfredericks	OSS is a gift economy
18:01	llasram	That's why I leave the bugs in code I write
18:01	naeg	llasram: I'm looking at the sourcecode of +fd, but I don't feel like I'm good enough in clojure already
18:01	naeg	still trying
18:02	cark	tho tracking a bug in such thing as logic requires quite a bit of expertise
18:02	cark	i already struggle just using it =P
18:06	naeg	llasram: about that everyg - did you put all those calls to +fd into that?
18:08	Roxxi	For unit testing is there a lot of traction around Midje, or do most people just use clojure.test ?
18:09	samuelj	Hey, can anyone point me in the right direction with this? Just trying to get my head around clojure web dev using compojure. I wanted to be able to define several functions like 'test', and add them into my-routes, then pass that to the defroutes function. I get * a lot * of errors when I try :) http://pastebin.com/efrYdUKw
18:09	samuelj	Any help is again greatly appreciated
18:09	samuelj	just a nudge in the right direction!
18:09	weavejester	samuelj: Why did you quote the route?
18:10	samuelj	Because i didn't want it to evaluate?
18:10	llasram	naeg: Yeah. Unfortunately on other computer I lost my ssh tunnel to ATM
18:10	weavejester	samuelj: You do want it to evaluate :)
18:10	samuelj	Ah
18:10	weavejester	samuelj: GET returns a function
18:10	weavejester	samuelj: It's basically equivalent to:
18:11	llasram	naeg: Gist is you can use `partition` to build pair-wise sets of the goal logic variables, then apply the step condition to each pair
18:11	weavejester	samuelj: (GET "/" [] …) ==> (fn [req] (if (matches-route? req [:get "/"]) …))
18:11	samuelj	ah ok!! awesome!
18:12	samuelj	So if i unquote it, I'm getting clojure.lang.PersistentList cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn
18:12	weavejester	samuelj: You also don't need a ref, unless you want to dynamically change the routes at runtime.
18:12	samuelj	ok, so I can just def the list and then still call alter on it?
18:13	samuelj	what i typed doesn't make sense
18:13	samuelj	I mean, I can take out the ref, then still conj into it?
18:13	weavejester	samuelj: That's because (defroutes app my-routes) is equivalent to (def app (routes my-routes))
18:13	weavejester	samuelj: The routes function takes many handler functions and combines them into one.
18:13	weavejester	samuelj: So if there's only one route, then (routes x) == x
18:14	weavejester	samuelj: If you want to update the routes dynamically, you'd need an atom or ref, but I don't know why you would
18:14	naeg	llasram: I just did it like that: (l/everyg (fn [[y x]] (l/+fd y 1 x)) [[b a] [c b] [d c]])
18:15	weavejester	samuelj: If you just want to put multiple routes into one, then you can use the 'routes' function
18:15	weavejester	samuelj: So say x = (GET "/" [] …) and y is another route, then (routes x y) will return a new route that tries x first, then y, then nil if neither match.
18:16	llasram	naeg: A bit more manual, but yeah -- I'd think that would have the same effect
18:16	samuelj	ah ok, and this is a compojure function? not ring?
18:17	weavejester	samuelj: It's basically the same thing. The only difference is that in Compojure the routing functions can return nil. Otherwise they're the same as Ring handlers.
18:17	weavejester	samuelj: Compojure treats a route returning nil as meaning "do not match"
18:18	samuelj	awesome, thanks for the help
18:19	weavejester	samuelj: So (routes (GET "/" [] "Hi") (ANY "*" [] "Not found")) will check the GET first, and then the ANY, which will always match/
18:19	samuelj	so in general, you define a series of routes with something like (def x (GET ?) and then maybe (def app (routes x y))
18:19	samuelj	*defroutes
18:19	weavejester	samuelj: You don't need the x part, you could do it all inline
18:20	samuelj	Yeah, but i'm porting over an existing application and its quite larg
18:20	weavejester	samuelj: Like (def app (routes (GET "/" [] …) (POST "/" [] …) (GET "/:id" [id])))
18:20	weavejester	samuelj: Okay, so you might want to split things up. Let's say you have some routes for dealing with products
18:21	weavejester	samuelj: Give me a sec to make a gist :)
18:21	samuelj	sweet, thanks
18:24	naeg	btw llasram this is what I'm having so far: http://bpaste.net/show/Y8sNAXSPNGHS0EgOHPjq/
18:25	naeg	yeah, switched to partition and I'm still missing the whole check for diagonals to complete the check for the whole connect four field
18:25	naeg	stuck with diagonals here: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/12355352/predicate-to-declare-descending-ascending-coordinates-using-finite-domains
18:27	gtrak	dakrone: mind if I ask, what would you call this license used for Cheshire? It looks a bit like MIT. is something like 'Modified MIT license' ok for our documentation?
18:28	weavejester	samuelj: Nearly done...
18:28	gtrak	never mind, I see the README says MIT license
18:35	weavejester	samuelj: There: https://gist.github.com/3694454
18:38	samuelj	weavejester thank you so much dude! that's awesome help :)
18:38	weavejester	samuelj: Does that make more sense now?
18:41	samuelj	yeah it sure does
18:41	samuelj	thanks a million!
18:41	xeqi	(inc weavejester)
18:41	lazybot	⇒ 5
18:44	weavejester	Cool. Now, sleep for me :)
18:45	hyPiRion	,(Thread/sleep 1000)
18:45	clojurebot	nil
18:46	samuelj	weavejester: but what If i want to create a function, say, add-route, that takes something like a GET function, and adds it to a list that is referenced in defroutes
18:46	samuelj	Can I show you what I'm thinking?
18:47	samuelj	weavejester: http://pastebin.com/GE7HZ7TW
18:47	samuelj	oh right, just saw your sleep comment
18:47	samuelj	no worries dude!
18:52	gtrak	samuelj: just glancing at the compojure code, you might have to hot-replace some of the code to make that happen, like adding around metadata
18:52	gtrak	the functions get captured in a closure eventually, you'd want to expose that somehow
18:54	gtrak	like add an atom to the metadata of the routes, and create functions that alter that
18:55	gtrak	that's kinda what noir does with defpage: https://github.com/ibdknox/noir/blob/master/src/noir/core.clj
18:56	technomancy	can't say I'm a fan
18:56	technomancy	declarative routes are the way to go
18:57	technomancy	but yeah, if you wanted to do that, noir shows you how
18:58	gtrak	is noir doing 'imperative' routes?
18:58	samuelj	technomancy, what's so good about declarative routes?
19:01	ivan	can I get clojure-dev in my inbox without mailing a piece of paper?
19:05	gtrak	ivan, feeds? https://groups.google.com/group/clojure-dev/feeds?hl=en
19:05	ivan	ah, nice, thanks
19:10	thorbjornDX	okay, `lein vimclojure` is blowing my mind right now. And I've heard that slime will blow this out of the water
19:11	Raynes	We're trying to get people off of SLIME for Clojure in favor of nrepl.el.
19:11	Raynes	It might, however, still blow it out of the water.
19:12	gtrak	Raynes: any hope for lein 1.7?
19:13	Raynes	gtrak: Don't think so, no.
19:14	gtrak	I would like some, I don't know when we'll get on 2. I just got off of 1.6.1.1 a month ago.
19:14	thorbjornDX	Raynes: actually, I think that's what I was using in emacs, is that the "m-x clojure-jack-in" command?
19:14	Raynes	Nope, nrepl-jack-in
19:14	thorbjornDX	Raynes: ah, okay. I'll have to give it a shot
19:18	cark	what's a good way to do continuous testing with clojure 1.4 ?
19:18	gtrak	we do hudson with cmdline lein invocations
19:19	thorbjornDX	gtrak: you can just use 'lein test' or somesuch, right?
19:19	gtrak	for some values of 'good'
19:19	gtrak	yea
19:19	frio	i'd also like an answer to cark's q if possible, but locally rather than with a build server
19:19	frio	i really liked that scala's sbt had ~test
19:19	frio	which detected changes, recompiled and re-ran the test suite locally
19:19	cark	i'm also looking at something local and fast
19:19	frio	does anyone know if there's anything similar :)?
19:19	thorbjornDX	gtrak: does it just give you a bunch of stacktraces? Or is there a way to get pretty output?
19:19	gtrak	there's a lein-autotest?
19:20	gtrak	thorbjornDX: yup, stacktraces
19:20	gtrak	I'm guessing the build result is keyed off the process exit errorlevel
19:20	thorbjornDX	gtrak: gotcha. cark: jenkins is pretty quick in my experience
19:20	gtrak	of course if I were starting from scratch I'd prefer jenkins to hudson
19:21	frio	so there is gtrak
19:21	frio	thanks for that :D
19:21	thorbjornDX	gtrak: I'm pretty late to the game, what new features does jenkins buy you?
19:21	thorbjornDX	(personally that is)
19:21	frio	jenkins is just hudson thorbjornDX :)
19:21	gtrak	thorbjornDX: the whole dev team of hudson...
19:22	cark	looks like a whole beast, i was thinking lazy-test or lein-auto-expect, but maybe with clojure.test
19:22	gtrak	hudson is a dead project now
19:22	frio	but there was a Thing with oracle owning the trademarks and whatnot (which isn't a Thing anymore)
19:22	thorbjornDX	gtrak: gotcha.
19:23	gtrak	"Compare core commits: as of 9-March, Jenkins core has 307 commits from 30 contributors; Oracle Hudson has 136 commits by 4 contributors."
19:23	thorbjornDX	gtrak: not to mention plugin developers... ok :)
19:31	gtrak	lancepantz: umm, what would you say is the license for clj-yaml?
19:39	technomancy	gtrak: anything in particular keeping you on lein1?
19:40	gtrak	technomancy: yea, we have some custom plugins
19:41	technomancy	anything interesting? =)
19:41	gtrak	there's one that recursively AOT compiles dependencies and creates -compiled classifier jars in the local maven repo, and another that manages distribution packages, generating license docs, etc..
19:41	gtrak	they do a bunch of stuff
19:42	technomancy	why do you need a plugin to compile dependencies?
19:42	technomancy	the common complaint in Clojure is that you can't avoid that =)
19:42	technomancy	oh, specifically to put them in separate jars?
19:42	gtrak	yea
19:43	gtrak	hold on a sec, I have Nate's presentation that explains most of that stuff
19:43	technomancy	"distribution packages" meaning system-level stuff? are you running lein as root?
19:44	gtrak	nope, I mean as zip files to customers: https://github.com/youngnh/presentations/blob/master/clojure.mn/2012_sep/at_revelytix.md
19:44	gtrak	specifically compiledeps
19:45	gtrak	I'm not sure of the details because I didn't write it, but suffice it to say, it's complicated :-)
19:45	technomancy	so nothing too specific; these are only distributed with the project because you haven't gotten around to spinning them off into a separate plugin project?
19:47	gtrak	they are separate plugins, but they tend to not play well with version changes, I'm not sure exactly what's missing/conflicting in lein2, but I remember there was an issue I think with maven jars keeping us at 1.6.1.1, and we just recently were able to go to 1.7.
19:47	technomancy	ouch
19:47	technomancy	you have some plexus conflict or something?
19:47	gtrak	yea
19:47	gtrak	let me give it a go I guess :-)
19:47	technomancy	the worst =(
19:47	gtrak	I have lein2 installed
19:48	technomancy	ok, just curious since so far most people have reported the transition to be fairly painless
19:48	gtrak	yea, we're doing something weird, it's not your fault
19:48	technomancy	are you using this? https://github.com/technomancy/lein-licenses
19:48	xeqi	anyone know a way to limit the number of thread the jvm can spawn?
19:49	gtrak	technomancy: nah, I think it's custom, we also pull from a map if the license isn't present, so we can add them for all the dependencies, then I use hiccup to generate some html, I wrote that part ;-)
19:49	technomancy	cool
19:51	technomancy	I can't help but think what you're doing would be much simpler if you just distributed an uberjar
19:51	technomancy	then you can have all the class files in one place and don't have to mess with repackaging deps
19:52	gtrak	yea possibly, I don't quite understand all the rationale
19:52	technomancy	is there some weird business requirement preventing that?
19:52	gtrak	assuredly, I don't think we'd go through all that trouble to avoid it otherwise
19:52	technomancy	heh; from the presentation "No other project in the world seems to need this"
19:52	technomancy	pretty much =)
19:53	technomancy	have you seen lein-pedantic?
19:53	gtrak	nope
19:53	technomancy	it's pretty great for larger projects: https://github.com/xeqi/lein-pedantic
19:53	gtrak	oh neat
19:53	gtrak	yes I could totally use that
19:53	xeqi	its lein2 only
19:53	xeqi	btw
19:54	gtrak	godammit XD
19:54	technomancy	incentive to upgrade =)
19:54	xeqi	heh, it uses pomegranate underneath, which has some sorta plexus class conflict with lein1
19:54	xeqi	if I remember right
19:54	gtrak	ok, first problem, it's not AOT-compiling my main class
19:55	gtrak	ah wait, that's the source layout
19:55	devn	xeqi: so we need some sort of meta pedantic for lein?
19:55	devn	;)
19:55	gtrak	well it doesn't show our plugins at all in 'lein help', so that's an issue
19:56	samflores	guys, what's the "right" way to deploy an ring application?
19:56	gtrak	those were dev dependencies
19:56	samflores	a*
19:56	xeqi	samflores: clojars uses jetty behind an nginx frontend
19:57	samflores	that's what I was thinking to do :)
19:57	hiredman	I like to use the lein ring plugin to build a war, and jetty-runner
19:57	hiredman	uberwar
19:57	gtrak	technomancy: it looks like it'll be pretty involved, how about I give it a go some other time and let you know?
19:57	xeqi	technomancy: was there something in the .md that lead to mentioning lein-pedantic?
19:58	xeqi	devn: heh, I think it was used in maven-ant-tasks, which does the dependency resolution for lein1. I don't think its fixable
19:58	technomancy	gtrak: of course; no worries. I was just curious.
19:58	unlink	Is there something like when-let for maps?
19:58	gtrak	naha, me too, I haven't shaved the yak fully yet, I just suspect it will break
19:59	technomancy	gtrak: there's an upgrade guide on the wiki when you do
19:59	gtrak	cool man
19:59	gtrak	yea, I'd love to use lein2 personally
19:59	unlink	(when-let [rec (select-keys m [:a :b :c])] ...)
20:00	unlink	Of course the condition always succeeds because empty maps are truthy.
20:00	technomancy	xeqi: I guess under "Lots and lots will hork your build"
20:00	aperiodic	unlink: you can just use destructuring: (when-let [{:keys [a b c]} m] ...)
20:00	xeqi	&(when-let [{:keys [a b c]} {:a 2}] a)
20:00	lazybot	⇒ 2
20:00	xeqi	&(when-let [{:keys [a b c]} {:a 2}] [a b c])
20:00	lazybot	⇒ [2 nil nil]
20:00	xeqi	&(when-let [{:keys [a b c]} {}] [a b c])
20:00	lazybot	⇒ [nil nil nil]
20:01	gtrak	technomancy: I discovered the hard way that our 'lein printdeps' wouldn't necessarily attribute the declared version of the dependency to the declaring parent, but choose by phase of the moon what to put there :-)
20:02	gtrak	crazy stuff like that
20:02	xeqi	version ranges can make that hard
20:02	technomancy	gtrak: yeah; that's built-in to lein2 now
20:02	unlink	aperiodic: I don't want to destructure, though. I just want to execute something that is side-effective when the select-keys yields a non-empty map.
20:02	technomancy	lein-pedantic adds a lot more visibility there
20:02	gtrak	I want it
20:07	gtrak	technomancy: the motivation for compiledeps looked to be like this: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-322
20:09	technomancy	gtrak: huh. that issue has been open for ages; I don't have a lot of hope that it'll ever be fixed at this point
20:09	gtrak	so in the end we get AOT-compiled JARS for every dep, instead of just a bunch of class files
20:09	aperiodic	unlink: i don't think there's a builtin. you'd probably want to define something like (fn has-any-key? [& keys] (fn [m] ((apply some-fn keys) m))) and use that as your test (assuming all your keys are keywords)
20:13	unlink	What I want is isomorphic to (let [m (select-keys m ks)] (when (seq m) ...))
20:13	aperiodic	unlink: write a macro?
20:13	unlink	That's never the answer.
20:14	unlink	I think the better question is, why doesn't clojure.java.jdbc/update-values not accept an empty parameter list? (and do nothing)
20:14	metellus	,(when-let [m (select-keys {:a 1} [:b])] true)
20:14	clojurebot	true
20:15	metellus	darn.
20:19	aperiodic	unlink: what's unsatisfying about defining (fn has-any-key? [m & ks] (seq (select-keys m ks)) and then writing (when (has-any-key? m :a :b :c) ...) ?
20:22	muhoo	is there somewhere a clearinghouse/wiki/directory/something with all the various ring middlewares available?
20:24	xeqi	muhoo: the "built-in" ones are listed at http://ring-clojure.github.com/ring/
20:40	unlink	aperiodic: I actually want the map resulting from the select-keys.
20:41	zenoli	chouser: Thanks, finally had a chance to look at your updates to https://gist.github.com/3687532 using the LinkedBlockingQueue. That's super slick.
20:45	gfredericks	emezeske: ping
20:46	zenoli	chouser: I'm going to give it a try with my code, looks like it's just what I'm looking for. If I'm understanding correctly, advance-most-recent continues running in its own thread, due to the future, every time the rest unblocks, and that keeps the queue from growing...that was the other piece that I was missing.
20:47	emezeske	gfredericks: pong
20:56	gfredericks	emezeske: I was poking for a hacky workaround to the assert issue; I tried setting it to false in user.clj, thinking that couldn't possibly not work, and yet it did not work; any ideas?
20:56	gfredericks	(i.e., with alter-var-root)
20:58	emezeske	gfredericks: I don't think there's even a hacky workaround
20:59	emezeske	gfredericks: Since the compiler is run in a separate java process from leiningen itself
20:59	gfredericks	but clojure always loads the user.clj, I assumed
20:59	gfredericks	as long as it's on the classpath
20:59	gfredericks	I figured the issue must be I'm misguessing the classpath (I put it in src/user.clj)
21:00	emezeske	Hmm, I guess I don't know much about user.clj
21:00	gfredericks	but /src is definitely on the classpath for the compiler's process?
21:01	emezeske	Yes, unless you changed :source-path or something
21:01	gfredericks	ah ha
21:01	gfredericks	so the :source-paths option in lein2 is exhaustive?
21:01	emezeske	Well, it defaults to ["src"] I think
21:04	gfredericks	sweet that did it
21:04	gfredericks	emezeske: thanks!
21:04	jcromartie	(eval (maths.core/compile-math '(2 * 6)))
21:05	jcromartie	getting somewhere
21:05	emezeske	gfredericks: Glad you got it working!
21:05	jcromartie	oh wait, Incanter does this
21:10	Khaoz	The clojure-mode to use with emacs is the one from here: https://github.com/technomancy/clojure-mode right ?
21:24	mpan	what does it mean to get: CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: defn in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:2) ?
21:25	mpan	it seems to happen occasionally at the repl
21:25	mpan	like I was previously using stuff from core and it was OK
21:26	mpan	I can't reproduce it deterministically, but once it happens it sticks around until I get a new repl
21:27	xeqi	mpan: did you recently change namespaces?
21:27	muhoo	xeqi: thanks, i'd seen those. i was thinking mostly of third-party ones. found a few, but have no idea how many there are out in the wild.
21:28	mpan	uh, I recently evaluated some stuff from the IDE which indirectly changed namespaces
21:28	mpan	but I lost core in the process?
21:28	xeqi	muhoo: I don't know of a listing, and some are built in other libs. friend has some, lib-noir has some, but no global listing :/
21:29	gfredericks	mpan: (clojure.core/use 'clojure.core)?
21:29	tomoj	mpan: do you call in-ns?
21:29	xeqi	mpan: if it somehow moved to a namespace w/ in-ns(or somethign) and therefore didn't import clojure.core
21:29	mpan	gfredericks: thanks, I'll use that next time
21:29	gfredericks	mpan: also there is (clojure.core/refer-clojure)
21:29	mpan	tomoj, xeqi: I don't think I did that
21:29	gfredericks	which I think is equivalent...
21:29	mpan	not intentionally at least
21:30	tomoj	ns does (refer-clojure) so that shouldn't happen unless you create a new namespace without using ns
21:30	tomoj	unless you have (:refer-clojure :only [+]) or something...
21:30	mpan	I suppose I'll wait until it reoccurs to test
21:30	mpan	thanks guys
21:30	xeqi	I've had it happen on nrepl 0.1.3, but usually it manifests as an autocomplete error
21:31	xeqi	* nrepl.el
22:09	arrdem	I've got a working program which generates Clojure code, is there some library settings for pprinting code, or do I just have to mess with it?
22:10	gfredericks	arrdem: http://bjeanes.com/2012/09/pure-evil
22:11	xeqi	arrdem: you mean to change clojure.pprint/pprint ?
22:12	arrdem	xeqi: I know that clojure.pprint/code-dispatch will print a compiled Clojure fn
22:13	arrdem	what I want to do is achieve a similar pprint for the un-eval'd list representation of a legal fn
22:13	arrdem	meh... I guess I can just (map pprint)
22:13	xeqi	(pprint (quote ...)) ?
22:15	arrdem	nvm the standard pprint invocation is good enough. I was just looking at ways to tweak the formatting rules, not prevent evaluation of my gen'd code
22:30	nsxt	anyone successfully using cemerick's friend lib?
22:30	brehaut	~anyone
22:30	clojurebot	Just a heads up, you're more likely to get some help if you ask the question you really want the answer to, instead of "does anyone ..."
22:30	brehaut	http://nelsonmorris.net/2012/09/01/using-friend-in-clojars.html
22:32	nsxt	i'm getting this stack trace when loading it as a dependency: https://www.refheap.com/paste/5e7034ed66be1bbeedf466b91
22:36	xeqi	nsxt: whats your project.clj look like?
22:37	xeqi	or.. try https://github.com/xeqi/lein-pedantic to see if the wrong version of a lib is being used
22:38	nsxt	xeqi: sorry, should have posted that as well. https://www.refheap.com/paste/60fb868fbd1f0bb01ca3de56d
22:38	nsxt	checking, thanks
22:39	xeqi	nsxt: let me know if it helps, always interested to hear usage
22:41	mpan	I'm trying to do something that in java would use abstract classes
22:41	mpan	should I use a type or a record?
22:41	nsxt	xeqi: thanks, lots returned by lein-pedantic, will report back when i've worked through them all
22:42	mpan	like I want multiple ways of performing a task according to the same signature
22:42	mpan	and I have a protocol for it
22:42	brehaut	mpan: neither let you inherit anything other than an interface
22:42	mpan	uh, I can put in the impl manually
22:43	brehaut	i hope you mean 'i can call a function'
22:43	mpan	er yea
22:43	mpan	maybe that was phrased a bit weird
22:44	mpan	like, I want to write a few functions which produce different instances of something that follows this protocol
22:44	brehaut	http://cemerick.com/2011/07/05/flowchart-for-choosing-the-right-clojure-type-definition-form/
22:45	mpan	awesome thanks
22:45	mpan	and when it says, "use a regular map", does that mean the contract should be written in natural language and human-enforced by the programmer?
22:46	brehaut	it means dont define a new type, just use a map instance
22:46	mpan	and uh, define multimethods?
22:47	brehaut	"will the type participate in clojure protocols or be associated with performance-sensitive code" -> No -> Use a regular map
22:47	brehaut	that no is important
22:47	mpan	that leaves me with the other part of my goal, though
22:48	mpan	like the code that works with these don't know if f or g produced the one they are using
22:48	mpan	because f and g should follow the same contract
22:48	mpan	so how would I make it transparent to such use?
22:49	nsxt	xeqi: thanks for lein-pedantic... helped me sort out the dependency issue. from what i can tell, there's no way to specify a 'minimum' version of a dependency... i'm sure this has been brought up numerous times, is there any reason why it's not supported?
22:49	brehaut	mpan: sorry, sleep deprivation is making me it hard for me to follow.
22:49	mpan	uh, so like, I've got something that's a solver for certain sorts of problems
22:49	mpan	so f and g are, well java would call them "factories"
22:50	brehaut	so, functions
22:50	xeqi	nsxt: you can with version ranges, but they have other problems
22:50	mpan	and either one gives you solver, which should follow the same contract
22:50	mpan	yes, f and g are functions which return a function, and the returned function follows a certain contract
22:50	brehaut	ok
22:50	mpan	and I need it to be transparent to the code that uses the result whether it got its function from f or g
22:50	xeqi	nsxt: in general, the java ecosystem clojure reuses decided to do "soft"/recommended dependencies by default, so its just something to live with
22:51	nsxt	xeqi: is the recommended course of action, then, to explicitly state the exclusions, and then load the "dependency dependencies" yourself in the project.clj file?
22:51	brehaut	mpan: i dont understand what the difficulty is?
22:52	mpan	so, in java I would want a solver "object" of one of a number of concrete classes with the same interface that has several "methods"
22:52	mpan	as in, it should be bundled together
22:52	xeqi	pretty much, I hope thats what I'm hoping the lein-pedantic suggestions told you to do
22:52	mpan	should I use a map of fns?
22:52	brehaut	ok.
22:52	brehaut	you can do
22:53	brehaut	or you can define a record for each type of solver and implement a protocol
22:53	mpan	is there one that's recommended usually?
22:53	brehaut	if the groups of functions are static, probably protocols
22:54	mpan	uh well, they take a game state and some extra args, and return a new game state, approximately
22:54	brehaut	so make the records take gamestate, and each of the protocol methods return a new gamestate
22:55	mpan	is there a general recommendation whether to do this with a map or a record? I'm not sure whether it would help me to make a separate protocol
22:55	mpan	originally, I made one but I'm not sure if it is necessary
22:55	brehaut	if you only have one record type, its probably not necessary
22:56	mpan	all right, thank you very much!!
22:56	owenjones	(defpage "/todos/" []
22:56	owenjones	(todos-page))
22:56	owenjones	(defpage "/todos.json" []
22:57	owenjones	(resp/json (todo/all)))
22:57	owenjones	hello all, Im trying to learn noir I assume there's a better way to do this?
22:57	brehaut	mpan: you can use operations like assoc and update-in on records to get new records back, so its pretty trivial to make protocol implementations that return new records
22:57	nsxt	xeqi: yeah, sort of... https://www.refheap.com/paste/5f1dada786fc717c0d9794562 this offers an either/or recommendation, which is great. my question was aimed at the :exclusions keyword in particular, and whether it's considered "good practice" to disregard the versions specified by a dependency and override them with one of your own
22:57	brehaut	owenjones: for future reference, use a paste service like gist.github.com or refheap.com
22:58	mpan	also, there is a mention of "performance-sensitive"
22:58	mpan	how/to what extent would using a record change performance?
22:59	brehaut	mpan: calls to protocol functions have inline caches at the callsite to make them faster than a pure dynamic call
22:59	nsxt	xeqi: for example, if i wanted to use cheshire 4.0.2 as a dependency in my project.clj - would i just comb through each of the other dependencies and :exclude cheshire from them?
22:59	xeqi	nsxt: in general, the top level dependencies should win, so you shouldn't have to
22:59	brehaut	mpan: it makes protocols comparable to normal function calls, rather than a lot slower like you might get by indirecting through a map
22:59	brehaut	or in comparison to multimethods
23:00	xeqi	however, there are a few times that doesn't happen, and then its useful
23:00	nsxt	xeqi: alright, thanks. will keep lein-pedantic around then :)
23:00	mpan	so if this is my inner loop of my game state evaluator, I should use a protocol?
23:00	brehaut	if its polymorphic yes probably
23:00	mpan	less so a game and more so a simulation, but I suppose the two are similar in the abstract
23:01	mpan	uh, yes, my main goal is to implement multiple concrete "solution concepts"
23:01	mpan	all right, thank you!
23:03	brehaut	mpan: i hope i havent said too much craziness
23:03	mpan	additionally, should I be type-hinting my inner loop?
23:03	mpan	it needs to run ~10-100k iterations
23:03	brehaut	only once you know you need to
23:03	mpan	when would I find out?
23:03	brehaut	(enable warn-on-reflection)
23:03	mpan	and do that after I have initial correctness?
23:04	brehaut	do it when you have determiend its running to slowly and its correct
23:04	mpan	thank you
23:04	mpan	yes, correctness is my first goal