#clojure – 2012-08-31

2012-08-31

00:02	cemerick	I'm going to have to write one hella rant after this site is built.
00:02	cemerick	:-)
00:02	brehaut	excellent
00:04	cjfrisz	Oh, macros...
00:13	nsxt_	cemerick: what sort of site are you building?
00:15	cemerick	nsxt_: One of the web variety. :-)
00:16	nsxt_	cemerick: aww, fine... understood. :)
00:16	uvtc	I hear it may reside somewhere on the internet.
00:16	cemerick	nsxt_: hopefully you'll know all about it soon enough.
00:17	nsxt_	cemerick: is it related to your work with clojureatlas?
00:17	cemerick	nah
00:17	nsxt_	(p.s. just in case you don't get enough thank yous for that, here's a hearty pitch)
00:17	cemerick	aw, thanks :-)
00:19	wmealing_	ive heard of those internet websites.. they are the future.
00:20	cjfrisz	I hear the internet is on computers now
00:21	amalloy	i think they're being replaced by cloud websites
00:24	Raynes	amalloy: How do they get those sites all the way up there?
00:24	uvtc	Cloud-based with a chance of Raynes.
00:26	wmealing_	groan
00:31	cbare	noob question:
00:31	cbare	If I have a bunch of functions. They either return false or a result. I want to apply them sequentially and return the first non-false result.
00:32	cbare	Is there a construct for that already?
00:32	tos9	,(doc dropwhile)
00:32	casion	(first (drop-while
00:32	clojurebot	Titim gan ?ir? ort.
00:36	cbare	something like this? (first (drop-while #(% my-input) [f g h ... ]))
00:36	uvtc	I am so spoiled by the Clojure cheatsheet. Wonderful.
00:36	casion	uvtc: do you know of a 1.4 cheat sheet with popup docs like http://jafingerhut.github.com/cheatsheet-clj-1.3/cheatsheet-tiptip-no-cdocs-summary.html
00:36	tomoj	&((some-fn :foo :bar :baz) {:bar false :baz 3})
00:36	lazybot	⇒ 3
00:37	uvtc	~cheatsheet
00:37	clojurebot	Cheatsheets with tooltips can be found at http://jafingerhut.github.com/ .
00:37	uvtc	:)
00:37	casion	this is 1.3 though
00:37	uvtc	Thanks, casion .
00:37	uvtc	Oh.
00:37	tomoj	cbare: so ((some-fn f g h) my-input) or ((apply some-fn [f g h]) my-input)
00:38	casion	I didnt even know about mapv until yesterday because I rely on that too much haha
00:38	uvtc	casion: No, I only know of the one at clojure.org and the jafingerhut ones with the tooltips.
00:38	casion	uvtc: I guess I'll look into how jafingerhut put together the 1.3 ones
00:38	casion	and see if I can make 1.4
00:39	uvtc	The tab-completion in the repl also helps.
00:40	amalloy	some-fn makes me so sad. anyone want to guess what ((some-fn = >) 5 10) returns?
00:40	cbare	do the functions you give to some-fn have to be predicates? Or can they return composite values?
00:42	casion	amalloy: why is that confusing? (= 5) is true
00:43	Scriptor	amalloy: isn't it just a short-hand way to write an or expression?
00:43	Scriptor	as long as any of the predicates returns true, it does
00:43	amalloy	casion: because (or (= 5) (> 5) (= 10) (> 10)) is a much less generally-useful function than (or (= 5 10) (> 5 10))
00:44	amalloy	and it's much easier to get the former behavior from a some-fn that behaves like the latter, than it is to get the latter from a some-fn that behaves like the former
00:44	uvtc	I thought you're only supposed to pass single-arg predicates to some-fn. So, it looks odd with `=` in there.
00:45	amalloy	uvtc: yes, that is the existing behavior of some-fn, which i am arguing is useless
00:49	casion	amalloy: would you wish it to process pairs or capture all arguments
00:49	amalloy	huh?
00:50	casion	like ((some-fn > ) 5 6 7) would be (> 5 6 7) or (or (> 5 6) (>6 7))
00:50	casion	obviously they are the same in that context
00:51	amalloy	none of those, they don't make any sense
00:52	amalloy	for one function arg, some-fn as it is now is perfectly fine
00:52	uvtc	amalloy: Not exactly sure what behaviour you'd like to see.
00:53	amalloy	((some-fn f g h) a b c) (or (f a b c) (g a b c) (h a b c))
00:55	amalloy	ie, for N function args and M "value" args, it should be like an 'or with N clauses, each calling an M-arg function with all the values
00:57	amalloy	and the existing behavior is not useful at all. the second example on http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/some-fn (which you mentioned to me that you added, uvtc) could easily be (some (some-fn even? #(< % 10)) [1 2 3])
00:58	amalloy	literally all the current handling of multiple args ever saves you is the characters (some []), whereas my proposed handling could actually make operations simpler
00:58	Raynes	amalloy: But is it web scale?
00:59	wmealing_	ಠ_ಠ
01:01	cbare	for what it's worth, some-fn seems to do what I wanted, thanks tomoj!
01:15	casion	amalloy: doesnt juxt do what you want?
01:15	casion	(or (juxt f g h) a b c))
01:15	casion	er, missed a set of parens
01:15	amalloy	no
01:15	amalloy	but it's not far, i suppose
01:16	amalloy	(some identity ((juxt f g h) a b c))?
01:17	casion	((juxt f g h) a b c) returns [(f a b c) (g a b c) (h a bc )] which is what I thought you were after?
01:17	casion	I think I may be mis understanding
01:17	amalloy	you seem to be attempting to apply 'or in a way that does not work
01:18	amalloy	which is why i replaced it with some identity
01:18	casion	ah, I see
01:21	jebberjeb	In idomatic clojure, are there some guidelines for when to use macros?
01:22	jebberjeb	Maybe that's not the right way to articulate this...
01:22	jebberjeb	when should I use macros:)
01:26	casion	branching macros in clojure still confuse me at times :\|, the idea of 'when' or 'and' or 'or' etc.. returning a non-boolean value refuses to stick
01:28	amalloy	jebberjeb: when you need to evaluate something in a new or non-standard context
01:29	amalloy	eg, (let [x 1] x) is a macro that evaluates its body, x in a context where there is a local named x bound to 1
01:29	amalloy	(when foo bar) is a macro that evaluates its body, bar, only when foo is not truthy
01:34	tomoj	cljs has :import now too :)
02:32	ivan	is there any kind of client authentication mechanism for nREPL?
02:35	ivan	I guess I could combine openssl s_client and a netty listener that checks the client's cert
03:03	bloudermilk	I've been reading online and I can't seem to find a definitive answer: Are circular dependencies in Clojure a bad idea? Specifically, I'm trying to work with directed graphs
03:04	amalloy	a circular reference is not possible in an immutable data structure
03:05	amalloy	so you can't really have a circular dependency in the object graph
03:06	amalloy	instead, usually you'd have pointers to "labels", rather than to objects themselves: {'a {:data 4, :edges #{'b}}, 'b {:data 10, :edges #{'a}}}, for example
03:20	bloudermilk	amalloy: Thank you, this makes sense
03:21	bloudermilk	amalloy: What about with transients?
03:21	amalloy	not relevant
03:23	kral	namaste
03:24	bloudermilk	amalloy: noted
03:24	augustl	amalloy: never thought about the impssibility of circular refs before, that's awesome
03:25	bloudermilk	amalloy: Not even with refs?
03:25	bloudermilk	immutable data is blowing my mind
03:25	amalloy	shrug you can have refs point to each other, but you won't be able to get an immutable snapshot of the data structure, so it's pretty worthless
03:27	bloudermilk	amalloy: Indeed, it seems like the wrong thing to do. Other than labels, how else would one maintain an efficient circular data structure?
03:27	bloudermilk	Or are labels not horrible inefficient...
03:27	bloudermilk	*horribly
03:29	amalloy	step 1: make it work. step 2: make it fast. (step 1.5 is usually realizing that most of it doesn't need to be optimally super-duper-extra-fast)
03:30	bloudermilk	amalloy: duly noted
03:34	jdj	Don Knuth: "Premature optimization is the root of all evil (or at least most of it) in programming."
03:35	bloudermilk	I feel compelled for some reason as I learn Clojure (my first FP language) to understand how to properly model data
03:36	bloudermilk	Coming from a classical OO mutable runtime
03:36	Raynes	It's weird how people think of OOP as the 'old' and 'classic' way of doing things. :p
03:38	bloudermilk	Raynes: Weird, no (people that started with "classical" were taught that). Unfortunate, yes
03:48	seancorfield	When I learned programming, OO was very fringe and FP was more center stage in academia. I liked FP a lot. Then I had to learn OO when it went mainstream. Ugh. Glad FP is back in vogue :)
03:49	seancorfield	But a strong OO background is certainly an obstacle to learning effective FP. Unfortunately.
03:50	amalloy	seancorfield: i disagree. a "strong" background in any kind of programming is an advantage in learning another kind
03:50	amalloy	a shallow, lengthy background in OO is more what i'd call a disadvantage in learning FP
03:51	seancorfield	Taking away assignment and loop variables has a fairly debilitating effect on an OO programmer since they spend all their time poking at data hidden in boxes to make it change...
03:51	Zentrope	seancorfield: I work daily spelunking a code base (I didn't write) in which "inheritance" is the main way the original authors avoided code duplication.
03:51	seancorfield	amalloy: perhaps "a strongly entrenched OO background" then?
03:52	seancorfield	Most "Java Programmers" these days are "strongly entrenched" rather than having a "strong" background in the way you mean...
03:52	amalloy	shrug clojure was my first functional language. it's more about attitude: do you see the new ideas/rules of FP as restrictions or as interesting challenges
03:52	seancorfield	Zentrope: sorry for your pain :(
03:52	seancorfield	amalloy: I think it also depends on how you view OO and OO languages :)
03:53	amalloy	i loved em for sure. didn't know anything else. reinvented java whenever i had to work in C
03:53	Zentrope	seancorfield: shrug It's just interesting to see all the pitfalls lined up right there before me. Smart authors. They did all the _right_ things. But, somehow.... ;)
03:54	amalloy	but i'm not really making any general points, i guess
03:54	seancorfield	When Haskell appeared, I really thought that might be the turning point, and FP would go mainstream... having seen SASL, Miranda, ML, and many others not get much traction.
03:55	seancorfield	I'm glad we're finally seeing FP being taken seriously and problems with OO being admitted...
03:55	amalloy	well, their freenode room is twice as big as ours still
03:56	amalloy	which is obviously the only interesting metric of language momentum
03:56	seancorfield	Haskell? I used to hang out there but since I didn't get to write Haskell for a living, I kinda lost interest :)
03:57	seancorfield	The Haskell community are certainly passionate :)
03:57	seancorfield	I'm very happy that I get to write Clojure for a living!
03:57	amalloy	haskell is pretty amazing as a language. i enjoy dabbling in it, but clojure is so great that i don't really have the motivation to really dive in
03:58	naeg	is something similiar to this possible in clojure (and performant)? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4261332/optimization-chance-for-following-bit-operations
03:59	amalloy	naeg: having spent two seconds glancing at that question, i am confident that you (or indeed i) will write bad code somewhere else in the program that costs way more speed than the speedup you could get from using shifts there
04:00	naeg	amalloy: but the algorithm seems so neat?
04:00	seancorfield	if memory was not so constrained, no one would bother packing data in and out of bit patterns like that tho...
04:00	naeg	it doesn't have to be as performant as in C or ASM, about a msec is okay (that's what I'm having with this solution: https://gist.github.com/3520562)
04:02	naeg	but it is possible to create a int64 (maybe from java?) and then do shift operations on it?
04:04	seancorfield	Java has bitwise operations, yes
04:04	Apage43	mrm
04:04	Apage43	trying to do a rate-limiting wrapper that blocks if the wrapped fn is being called too fast
04:05	Apage43	right now I'm using an agent make the callers "get in line", but feels ugly that the fn is running in a different thread than the caller, and that would probably subtly break some stuff that expects that not to happen
04:06	amalloy	funny. i've written rate-limited twice, and both times chose something different than blocking
04:06	Apage43	I saw the one in useful :). For this I'm rate limiting requests to an HTTP API.
04:07	seancorfield	naeg: and, yes, Clojure has various bit-twiddling functions too, if you really want to go there...
04:08	Apage43	so if I'm calling it too fast I just want to wait, since I do need the result
04:16	naeg	seancorfield: I guess I will. The algorithm is neat and not that complex
04:17	naeg	(just to compare it to my other solution, will probably use the other one anyway)
05:28	gtuckerkellogg	how can one run all midje tests for a namespace from the REPL?
05:28	noidi	afaik, midje runs the facts as soon as they are evaluated
05:29	noidi	so try (require 'my.ns :reload)
05:29	noidi	or something like that
05:30	gtuckerkellogg	so there's nothing in midje like clojure.test's (run-tests 'your.namespace) ?
05:30	gtuckerkellogg	wow. in so many other ways, midje is superior.
05:31	amalloy	just...put your midje tests inside a deftest
05:31	amalloy	i'm not a big fan of midje, but i don't see why it should diplicate functionality that it can reuse instead
05:32	gtuckerkellogg	good point
05:32	gtuckerkellogg	i'll do just that
05:33	gtuckerkellogg	amalloy, what don't you like about midje?
05:34	amalloy	i don't dislike anything concrete; i'm sure it's fine. the heavy emphasis on tdd styles isn't to my taste. i do think mocking is overused, but that's probably related to tdd
05:40	Raynes	amalloy: From what I can tell, midje is an excellent way to test things in creative ways without a lot of code.
05:40	Raynes	I think a lot of things are quite a bit overly complex.
05:41	Raynes	See 'around' and other crap like that.
05:41	Raynes	Gives me a headache.
05:41	gtuckerkellogg	i just miss being able to run the whole namespace of tests from the repl
05:41	pyykkis	Raynes: +1
05:43	pyykkis	if something, test framework should be simple and explicit. I find clojure.test being just that (and I used to be a fan of rspec). We'll, i guess it's a matter of taste
05:54	algernon	gtuckerkellogg: (require 'my.ns :reload), as noidi said should do just that.
06:02	gtuckerkellogg	thanks
06:33	borkdude	hmm, I have an enlive template that is based on an html5 file, basically I just want to show the file
06:33	borkdude	but it leaves the doctype out
06:34	borkdude	this is my template:
06:34	borkdude	(enlive/deftemplate welcome-page
06:34	borkdude	"public/index.html"
06:34	borkdude	[])
06:34	borkdude	what could be the problem?
06:34	vijaykiran	borkdude: https://github.com/cgrand/enlive/issues/15 related ?
06:35	borkdude	vijaykiran that's it, tnx
07:10	Cheiron	Hi, what does this mean? IllegalArgumentException No value supplied for key: true clojure.lang.PersistentHashMap.createWithCheck (PersistentHashMap.java:89)
07:12	borkdude	,{true}
07:12	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: Map literal must contain an even number of forms>
07:12	borkdude	,(hash-map true)
07:12	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No value supplied for key: true>
07:12	borkdude	,(hash-map true 1)
07:12	clojurebot	{true 1}
07:13	hyPiRion	,(assoc {} true)
07:13	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (2) passed to: core$assoc>
07:13	borkdude	so it means exactly what is says, no value supplied for key: true :)
07:13	borkdude	dunno about the createWithCheck thing though
07:31	Raynes	Cheiron: It usually means you're trying to create a map without enough key and value pairs.
07:32	Raynes	Er, without one part of a pair.
07:32	Raynes	As demonstrated above.
07:32	naeg	someone used common crawl with clojure already? http://commoncrawl.org/
07:32	Cheiron	eye c. still unable to locate the line. Anything wrong with (def ^{:private true :doc ".....:} ttl 20000)
07:34	borkdude	".....: -> "…." I presume?
07:35	Cheiron	yes, i mean it is a string
07:37	borkdude	seem ok tom e
07:37	borkdude	seems ok to me
07:38	Raynes	It wont be a literal map, Cheiron.
07:38	Raynes	It'll be code that creates a map, like borkdude's hash-map call.
07:43	Cheiron	so this line isn't the suspect? (def ^{:private true :doc "....."} ttl 20000)
07:44	Cheiron	i'm trying to require a file
07:44	Cheiron	but the only message i got is: IllegalArgumentException No value supplied for key: true clojure.lang.PersistentHashMap.createWithCheck (PersistentHashMap.java:89)
07:44	Cheiron	i'm unable to locate the suspected map
07:46	Cheiron	I found it !! how stupid i am
08:45	jao`	nick jao
09:32	@rhickey	clueless lein user q: lein repl fails if your code doesn't compile?
09:33	@rhickey	is there a way around that?
09:33	chouser	that probably depends on whether you're aot'ing or not.
09:34	@rhickey	I'm not asking for anything specific
09:34	@rhickey	does :main entry trigger that?
09:34	clgv	rhickey: yes. if there is none it starts in namespace 'user
09:35	chouser	Ah, probably
09:35	@rhickey	seems to
09:35	clgv	the same behavior when you do lein repl outside a project
09:35	chouser	so with no :main, lein repl succeeds and drops you in 'user even if none of your code compiles.
09:36	clgv	chouser: no. as far as I experienced, there is no compilation. you will have to require the namespaces you want to use from 'user namespace
09:52	chouser	How can I tell pprint to print metadata?
09:54	clgv	chouser: set print-dup to true
09:54	chouser	pprint seems to ignore both print-dup and print-meta
09:55	clgv	then you probably cant
09:56	chouser	wow. really?
09:56	clgv	humm just checkoing the source. it writes directly to out
10:06	advirol	Hi, I want to read the release announcement for Clojure 1.4 but as it seems, I cannot read it without logging in with a Google account.
10:06	advirol	Does s.o. have any idea for a solution? I would suggest to use open forums that don't require to login.
10:08	nDuff	s/groups/group/
10:08	advirol	hm, perhaps I made a mistake.
10:08	advirol	I verify that
10:10	@rhickey	group is public readable, but if you are logged into google already it tries to log you in to groups
10:10	nDuff	advirol: I just pulled it up from a private-mode browser with a clear cookie set
10:10	nDuff	s/clear/empty/
10:11	advirol	yes, you're right. my mistake was that i had been logged in and groups wanted to verify my account.
10:11	wmealing_	there was issues with either oauth or openid, i can't remember.. but i know there was a problem with one of them
10:11	wmealing_	is one preferred over the other ?
10:11	advirol	now since i completely logged out, i have access. just forget about it. ;)
10:11	clgv	advirol: the changes are also up on github
10:12	advirol	alright, even better. thx all
10:13	nDuff	rhickey: Is it expected that a delay throwing an exception should work when it's called again? A corner case where that doesn't behave as-expected (has locals cleared on rerun) came up yesterday; I don't know that anyone has come up with a clear enough reproducer to file a ticket yet, though hyPiRion was working on it.
10:13	wmealing_	or am i looking at this whole issue sideways ?
10:16	hyPiRion	nDuff: I filed a ticket
10:16	hyPiRion	nDuff: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-1053
10:19	nDuff	hyPiRion: Ahh -- great; thanks!
10:21	nDuff	...and that's much clearer about what's going on.
10:23	hyPiRion	Yeah, it bothered me last night, so I did some testing and tried to figure out what the problem was.
10:25	hyPiRion	It is a rather strange case.
11:12	kral	Are there any good example of clojure + clojurescript on github or similar site?
11:14	shaungilchrist	http://clojurescriptone.com/ (bare in mind it expects lein1.6 to follow the tutorial)
11:14	jsabeaudry	kral, http://github.com/ibdknox/overtoneCljs this one is not bad
11:15	jsabeaudry	kral, the key to clojurescript in my opinion is lein-cljsbuild, makes it really simple no need to install anything etc
11:17	xeqi	+1 for lein-cljsbuild
11:18	xeqi	can't think of any recent open source projects showing everything togeter
11:18	`fogus	(inc jsabeaudry)
11:18	lazybot	⇒ 1
11:19	xeqi	besies that overtone one
11:21	shaungilchrist	is anyone else using the notion of .cljx ala c2?
11:35	@rhickey	what are people using for Clojure data Content-Type?
11:37	`fogus	application/clojure here
11:38	nDuff	Doesn't there need to be an x- in there for things that aren't standardized yet?
11:40	`fogus	Hmm, probably
11:44	metajack	x- is deprecated now
11:44	ohpauleez	rhickey: application/clojure here as well
11:44	metajack	http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6648
11:45	`fogus	I guess I was ahead of times (for once)
11:46	@rhickey	looks like clj-http {:as :auto} checks for that as well
11:48	alpheus	Is there something like clojure.java.io/copy that can read from a java.io.InputStream and write to a byte array?
11:52	antares_away	alpheus: you probably can read data into a byte buffer and turn that into a byte array
11:59	alpheus	copy's "Output may be an OutputStream, Writer, or File." Can I make an OutputStream that's a byte buffer?
12:00	alpheus	I should probably tell you my actual problem instead of asking about possible solutions.
12:00	mmitchell	is there any version of clojure that allows you to throw with a string only? (throw "my error")
12:01	alpheus	as opposed to (throw (Throwable. "my error"))?
12:01	mmitchell	alpheus: yes
12:01	mmitchell	,(throw "boom")
12:01	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to java.lang.Throwable>
12:02	mmitchell	,clojure-version
12:02	clojurebot	{:interim true, :major 1, :minor 4, :incremental 0, :qualifier "master"}
12:04	hyPiRion	mmitchell: Well, it allows you to throw with a string only. Like, technically.
12:06	duck1123	you might want to check out slingshot. it has a fn called throw+
12:06	nbeloglazov	$clojuredocs copy
12:06	lazybot	incanter.processing/copy-pixels: http://clojuredocs.org/v/3256; incanter.core/copy: http://clojuredocs.org/v/2853; clojure.java.io/copy: http://clojuredocs.org/v/2139; clojure.contrib.io/copy: http://clojuredocs.org/v/491; clojure.contrib.duck-streams/copy: http://clojuredocs.org/v/254
12:07	nbeloglazov	$javadoc java.io.ByteArrayOutputStream
12:07	lazybot	http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/io/ByteArrayOutputStream.html
12:07	nbeloglazov	alpheus: use ByteArrayOutputStream
12:07	lotia	how would i redirect System/SetOut ans System/SetErr in clojure?
12:09	bosie	anyone in here using cascalog?
12:13	technomancy	I realize it's an artificial distinction, but I wonder if the application/clojure content-type would be appropriate for data structures not intended for evaluation while text/clojure might be appropriate otherwise
12:13	technomancy	err--s/not//
12:26	duck1123	why would you write clojure code/data you don't intend to be evaluated?
12:27	hyPiRion	duck1123: There's a difference between evaluating and reading, ##(doc read-eval)
12:27	lazybot	java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! read-eval is bad!
12:27	hyPiRion	,(doc read-eval)
12:27	clojurebot	"; When set to logical false, the EvalReader (#=(...)) is disabled in the read/load in the thread-local binding. Example: (binding [read-eval false] (read-string \"#=(eval (def x 3))\")) Defaults to true"
12:29	xeqi	fetch uses "application/clojure" https://github.com/ibdknox/fetch/blob/master/src/noir/fetch/remotes.clj#L25
12:29	xeqi	though only on server responses :\
13:05	acheng	,(java.lang.ProcessBuilder. "ls")
13:05	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching ctor found for class java.lang.ProcessBuilder>
13:07	xeqi	,(java.lang.ProcessBuilder. ["ls"])
13:07	clojurebot	#<ProcessBuilder java.lang.ProcessBuilder@1248de38>
13:07	acheng	xeqi: thanks!
13:11	xeqi	acheng: might take a look at https://github.com/Raynes/conch
13:13	acheng	(inc xeqi)
13:13	lazybot	⇒ 2
13:46	pbostrom	I'm looking for ways to debug a Java app with Clojure, anyone have experience with this? a search through the ML mentions a few options, like https://github.com/djpowell/liverepl or https://github.com/wirde/swank-inject, wondering if one is better than the other
13:50	shawnlewis	Is there any way to merge namespaces (that I don't control)? For example I'd like to create a namespace that contains all of clj-time's sub-namespaces (clj-time.core clj-time.local clj-time.coerce clj-time.format)
13:51	shawnlewis	as well as a few additional functions of my own
13:51	S11001001	shawnlewis: not a good way
13:54	shawnlewis	In Python you can access a module's imports via chaining. Like module.importedmodule.func
13:55	shawnlewis	Walking the child namespaces and def'ing their symbols in the parent would be pretty bad huh?
13:56	S11001001	shawnlewis: it's highly error-prone
13:56	hyPiRion	shawnlewis: And the metadata would be gone, too.
13:56	emezeske	How do you deal with name conflicts?
13:57	hyPiRion	Unless you're tricking it somehow.
13:57	mindbender1	cemerick: on piggieback README, the line after ## Rhino ClojureScript Environment (default) is not clear. Mind having a look?
13:57	S11001001	dynamics, macros, redefinitions
13:58	S11001001	as for that bit of Python, I'd call that a misfeature, as it makes what libs you happen to import into a module part of the public api of that module, unless you __all__ them away, which is tedious
13:58	emezeske	shawnlewis: What is your goal? To save typing in your requires?
13:59	emezeske	S11001001: Well, in Python everything is always public, but I think it's generally understood that some things are obviously bad to poke around in
13:59	shawnlewis	emezeske: Yeah I feel like every time I need clj-time I end up needing 3 out for 4 of its submodules, I also don't like having to think about which function belongs to which submodule
14:01	emezeske	shawnlewis: How many functions from clj-time do you find yourself using? If it's not many, you could write your own utility api on top of them and just use that
14:02	emezeske	shawnlewis: If you try to combine namespaces programatically, a new release of clj-time could break everything by merely adding a new private function to some namespace that conflicts with another namespace
14:02	shawnlewis	emezeske: that's true but I was hoping there might be a simpler way
14:02	shawnlewis	emezeske: well i could have my super-namespace die if there are conflicts
14:03	pandeiro	can i basically drop in nrepl.el and use nrepl-jack-in the same way i was using slime/swank?
14:03	emezeske	shawnlewis: Well you wouldn't have any other choice but to die
14:03	shawnlewis	emezeske: oh i said you said private function. either way I think dying is appropriate
14:04	shawnlewis	*i see you said
14:04	emezeske	shawnlewis: Dying is not just appropriate, it's all you could reasonably do
14:04	emezeske	shawnlewis: Unless your code is going to go through the whole AST and rename conflicting functions everywhere
14:05	shawnlewis	yup
14:06	emezeske	shawnlewis: If you really, really want to do something like this, you could have a macro that, using a whitelist, builds proxy functions in one namespace for all the public functions from clj-time.* namespaces
14:06	emezeske	Which is basically just a somewhat automated version of writing your own simplified wrapper API
14:07	shawnlewis	emezeske: right
14:08	shawnlewis	I guess I was thinking (use) might have an option to also expose the referred functions to callers
14:08	SegFaultAX\|work2	My 4clojure solutions keeps timing out for no reason. :(
14:09	shawnlewis	ie: my mental model was that (use) was equivalent to doing "from module import *" in python, but that's not the case
14:09	shawnlewis	i'm not saying there's anything wrong here. just figuring out how stuff works
14:09	hyPiRion	pandeiro: I just did
14:10	hyPiRion	At least for me, the transition was frightenly simple.
14:12	pandeiro	hyPiRion: seems too good to be true, as much as i struggled with swank
14:12	pandeiro	but it's working fine so far
14:13	cemerick	mindbender1: not clear how?
14:14	cemerick	(it's basically a repeat of the interaction described in the cljs tutorial)
14:14	mindbender1	cemerick: there's an opening bracket that was not closed.
14:14	mindbender1	that confused me a bit
14:14	Gnosis-	it doesn't seem like I can throw+ inside the catch of a try+ block
14:15	Gnosis-	,try+
14:15	cemerick	mindbender1: sorry, where? I'm not seeing it.
14:15	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: try+ in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
14:15	mindbender1	cemerick: immediately after ## Rhino ClojureScript Environment (default)
14:15	Gnosis-	,(refer 'slingshot.slingshot)
14:15	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.Exception: No namespace: slingshot.slingshot>
14:15	cemerick	oh, just in the text prior to the console interaction
14:16	mindbender1	yess
14:16	cemerick	Sure, will fix.
14:16	mindbender1	ok thanks
14:16	hyPiRion	pandeiro: Yeah, I'm kind of wondering when it will blow up on me.
14:16	cemerick	mindbender1: fixed; though it doesn't really change the process, etc.
14:17	mindbender1	cemerick: yeah I sensed so.. just that I kept looking for a closing bracket
14:17	Gnosis-	is it possible to re-throw an exception in slingshot?
14:17	mindbender1	cemerick: thanks for fixing
14:18	pandeiro	hyPiRion: we are both traumatized
14:18	dnolen	rhickey: any thoughts about the column tracking metadata patch for the Clojure reader? Is there some more rationale you want to see around that patch, or is it simply not on the table?
14:18	technomancy	Gnosis-: sure
14:20	Gnosis-	technomancy: if I have (throw+ (assoc e :test true)) in a catch block, the original exception gets thrown (before the assoc)
14:20	Frozenlo`	Is there a way to check if two functions are identical? Something like (= #(print "Hook!") #(print "Hook!"))
14:21	technomancy	Frozenlo`: sort of, if you use serializable-fn
14:21	pandeiro	is there any reason against running a small-time webapp via emacs/nrepl to be able to hot-patch and whatnot? is that a big risk?
14:22	technomancy	Gnosis-: huh, sounds like a bug in slingshot. you should be able to do it with ex-info though
14:22	Frozenlo`	technomancy: this? https://github.com/technomancy/serializable-fn
14:22	technomancy	(throw (vary-ex e assoc :test true))
14:22	technomancy	Frozenlo`: that's the one
14:22	Frozenlo`	Thanks, looking now!
14:23	technomancy	pandeiro: you should launch it with a proper daemonization tool and launch an nrepl server from the inside.
14:23	technomancy	update-ex is probably better than vary-ex
14:24	pandeiro	technomancy: what would be the tradeoffs there? more stability? automatic restarting?
14:24	xeqi	pandeiro: and make sure to restrict access, perhaps using https://github.com/cemerick/drawbridge as shown in https://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/debugging-clojure
14:24	technomancy	(update-ex e assoc :test true) -> (ex-info (.getMessage e) (assoc (ex-data e) :test true))
14:24	pandeiro	xeqi: great thanks
14:24	technomancy	pandeiro: yeah, and the more conventional it is the more likely you are to remember how to do it when you have to come back to it two years later
14:25	technomancy	upstart-style init scripts are nice for that
14:26	technomancy	depends on your definition of "small-time" I guess; if you're the only one using it then launching it out of a repl in tmux is fine =)
14:26	pandeiro	technomancy: me and a few people, but it would be nice to learn 'the right way to do it'
14:26	pandeiro	thanks
14:27	Frozenlock	technomancy: That's really nice! Will this work with cljs also?
14:27	technomancy	Frozenlock: I doubt it
14:27	SegFaultAX\|work2	amalloy: Are you the 4clojure administrator?
14:27	amalloy	yes
14:27	Gnosis-	technomancy: regular throw _does_ work inside the catch block of a try+ :)
14:28	Gnosis-	so how do I wrap a map inside it? make a Stone object?
14:28	technomancy	Gnosis-: I recommend ex-info
14:28	Gnosis-	technomancy: okay, thanks
14:29	Gnosis-	how do I report this bug?
14:29	SegFaultAX\|work2	amalloy: I'm trying to submit an answer to a question, but it times out almost every single time. When it does actually run my solution it works instantly, but sometimes it takes a while for it to even start the first test so by the time it gets to the last one it times out.
14:29	SegFaultAX\|work2	amalloy: Is the problem my code or 4clojure, do you think?
14:29	amalloy	4clojure. the sandboxer handles some things (mostly java interop) pretty badly
14:30	SegFaultAX\|work2	amalloy: There is no interop in this solution. Would you mind taking a look?
14:30	amalloy	sure
14:30	SegFaultAX\|work2	Problem 73: https://www.refheap.com/paste/4774
14:31	SegFaultAX\|work2	amalloy: I didn't think I was being too abusive. But I'm still learning. :)
14:31	amalloy	SegFaultAX\|work2: when i paste that into 4clojure, it succeeds instantly
14:32	SegFaultAX\|work2	amalloy: Hmm, lemme retry.
14:32	SegFaultAX\|work2	amalloy: Yea it just spins for me then times out.
14:32	scriptor	it hangs for me too
14:32	amalloy	hm. pressed submit again, and this time it's stuck
14:32	SegFaultAX\|work2	Even if it's not idiomatic Clojure, is my solution awful?
14:33	amalloy	no, looks pretty good to me
14:33	scriptor	definitely a problem with 4clojure here, I tried it with "2" and it also hangs for a bit
14:35	amalloy	well, i can restart it. it's not using much cpu or ram though
14:36	amalloy	try now
14:36	SegFaultAX\|work2	amalloy: That did it.
14:36	SegFaultAX\|work2	amalloy: Thanks so much!
14:37	SegFaultAX\|work2	amalloy: I'm getting close http://www.4clojure.com/user/segfaultax
14:38	jweiss	i'd like to update a file within a zipfile within a zipfile. This is turning out to be surprisingly difficult. is there anything out there to help beyond the java.util.zip classes?
14:38	eggsby	seancorfield: is there any way to send auth credentials with clj-soap?
14:43	hyPiRion	Ah, and now my solution to the reversi worked as well.
14:47	seancorfield	eggsby: i don't use clj-soap so i don't know, sorry
14:52	Gnosis-	technomancy: it turns out I was using slingshot 0.8.0; I upgraded to 0.10.3, and now I get this error at the REPL: ClassNotFoundException slingshot.Stone java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run (URLClassLoader.java:217)
14:54	eggsby	ah seancorfield: https://github.com/seancorfield/clj-soap this a different person? :p
14:54	eggsby	no worries, just dropping down to the java :)
14:57	hyPiRion	ah, nrepl killed my paredit. Whenever I del over any paren/bracket, it's getting killed.
14:58	Gnosis-	technomancy: sorry, please disregard; I needed to do 'lein clean'
14:59	amalloy	heh. lispers are baffling. "dangit, i press delete and a character disappears. my text editor is broken!"
15:00	uvtc	hehehe
15:01	xeqi	technomancy: know anything about when the next nrepl.el release is? I'd love a fix for kingtim/nrepl.el#84
15:02	technomancy	xeqi: haven't heard much discussion about that, no
15:02	technomancy	are you on the nrepl.el mailing list? could raise it there.
15:02	xeqi	somehow I'm managed to not join that yet
15:02	xeqi	guess its time
15:04	amalloy	huh, i wonder why lazybot didn't post a link to that issue when you mentioned it
15:04	xeqi	I thought the same thing
15:04	xeqi	wasn't sure if it was channel restricted
15:04	xeqi	or if the "." messed it up
15:05	amalloy	i looked through the source, neither seems to be the case
15:05	hyPiRion	Is there some hook someone has created to fix the issue?
15:05	xeqi	xeqi/lein-pendantic#2
15:05	hyPiRion	(for the nrepl/paredit thing)
15:05	xeqi	&"I'm not broken"
15:05	lazybot	⇒ "I'm not broken"
15:05	amalloy	4clojure/4clojure#5
15:05	lazybot	CSS and HTML Layout -- https://github.com/4clojure/4clojure/issues/5 is closed
15:05	scriptor	maybe lazybot ignores closed issues?
15:05	clojurebot	Cool story bro.
15:06	scriptor	oh, well never mind
15:06	xeqi	oh, I misspelled my own repo :\
15:06	technomancy	whoa; what happened to http://www.opalang.org/
15:07	llasram	Soooo shiiiiny
15:07	technomancy	llasram: but but
15:07	technomancy	the only reason I cared the slightest bit about opa was ocaml
15:08	technomancy	and they replaced every mention of it with node
15:08	llasram	http://opalang.org/faq.xmlt still talks about OCaml as primary implementation language
15:08	ohpauleez	technomancy: 1.7m of funding will do that
15:08	amalloy	technomancy: i think it's april first in the southern hemisphere
15:09	ohpauleez	"JS Framework" is a easy way to raise a bunch of money
15:09	ohpauleez	amalloy: Normandy, France
15:09	technomancy	ohpauleez: yeah, especially when you add "enterprise" to it
15:09	hoover_damm	Intel needs to release javascript optimization to the intel microcode
15:09	ohpauleez	technomancy: "enterprise" alone is an extra 150K
15:09	amalloy	eastern hemisphere, then. i think it's a viable joke regardless of technicalities
15:10	scriptor	kinda reminds me how racket-lang has no mention of "lisp" on the home page
15:11	amalloy	ah, i think lazybot's regex doesn't accept . in repo names, even though it tries to
15:13	ohpauleez	technomancy: The one mention of OCaml exists in the job descriptions. "The compiler is written in OCaml"
15:13	ohpauleez	I love when french companies use OCaml
15:13	ohpauleez	it feels so french
15:13	SegFaultAX\|work2	When did MongoDB and Node.js become the Javascript stack?
15:14	ohpauleez	SegFaultAX\|work2: three years ago?
15:14	ohpauleez	maybe two
15:15	technomancy	what on earth is "supported technologies" on that page supposed to mean? if you don't look closely it looks like they're saying google, twitter, and facebook use their stuff
15:15	SegFaultAX\|work2	Well that makes me sad, then. Two significantly subpar technologies comprise the js stack. :(
15:16	ohpauleez	SegFaultAX\|work2: Yes… it's like Asimov's "Foundation" is taking hold
15:17	ohpauleez	May we be the instruments of a brighter future
15:17	SegFaultAX\|work2	I guess 3 significantly subpar technologies, if you include Javascript itself.
15:17	acheng	hm. added [conch "0.3.1"] to my project.clj, ran lein deps, added [conch :as sh] to my clj file's :require clause in the call to ns.... when loading file i get FileNotFound for conch__init.class on classpath
15:17	Sgeo	What does being shackled to the JVM count as?
15:17	acheng	same result after getting a new clojure jack in session.
15:18	ohpauleez	Sgeo: Who's shackled? You can sort of run Clojure on JS, JVM, Scheme, Python, Lua, and soon barebones via C
15:18	ohpauleez	Also, it's funny the company kept its name: MLstate
15:18	ohpauleez	kudos
15:19	xeqi	acheng: (:require [conch.core :as sh])
15:19	SegFaultAX\|work2	What's wrong with the JVM? It's a reasonably stable and performant virtual machine.
15:19	acheng	ah. of course
15:19	acheng	although i still get the error
15:20	acheng	oh nevermind
15:20	Sgeo	It suggests a model that might not be ideal, and the best performance is done by staying close to the model: Protocols vs generic functions
15:21	acheng	xeqi: thanks again
15:21	ohpauleez	I've been keeping a close eye on Rust, which has me pretty excited
15:23	dnolen	Sgeo: what language do you use that has generic methods as generic as Clojure's yet faster?
15:25	Sgeo	dnolen, I guess I don't know enough to make the comparison, but Common Lisp can be pretty fast, and I think it might be possible to build a Clojure-like generic system fairly thinly over CLOS
15:25	dnolen	Sgeo: CLOS isn't as generic, based on your argument you could probably do the same for Clojure. Are you going to be the one to do it?
15:27	Sgeo	Building Clojure on top of Common Lisp?
15:27	dnolen	Sgeo: no build faster generic methods for Clojure.
15:28	Sgeo	Java doesn't have anything similar to CLOS, I think
15:28	dnolen	Sgeo: ...
15:28	Sgeo	...although, I have a thought
15:29	Sgeo	My Clojure-style generics on CLOS plan was kind of single-dispatch, actually
15:30	Sgeo	What is going on with all these ping timeouts?
15:30	Cheiron	Hi, how to import this enum in clojure code? http://hector-client.github.com/hector//source/content/API/core/1.0-1/me/prettyprint/hector/api/beans/AbstractComposite.ComponentEquality.html
15:30	_tca	Sgeo: notice: linode
15:30	emezeske	Sgeo: Are you writing your own programming language?
15:31	Sgeo	emezeske, I'm starting to think I should eventually
15:31	emezeske	Sgeo: I was going to suggest that.
15:33	ohpauleez	Sgeo: You should also give The Art of the Metaobject Protocol a read, and give the CLJS source code a read through
15:36	Cheiron	to import http://hector-client.github.com/hector//source/content/API/core/1.0-1/me/prettyprint/hector/api/beans/AbstractComposite.ComponentEquality.html (import '......AbstractComposite$ComponentEquality)
15:36	Cheiron	but to use the constants?
15:36	Cheiron	*but how
15:43	pepijndevos	How do I get a recent google closure library?
15:44	ohpauleez	pepijndevos: You're looking for the inclusion of the third-party pieces?
15:44	pepijndevos	ohpauleez: just a more recent version than what comes with cljsbuild
15:44	xeqi	&(java.math.RoundingMode/DOWN)
15:44	lazybot	⇒ #<RoundingMode DOWN>
15:44	pepijndevos	or… as far as i understand the clojurescript stack at all
15:45	ohpauleez	pepijndevos: cljs includes a very very recent version, not more than a few months old
15:45	pepijndevos	ohpauleez: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/clojure/gG24Shh8wDg
15:45	xeqi	Cheiron: I'd expect (AbstractComposite$ComponentEquality/EQUAL)
15:46	juhu_chapa	Hi all! Is there any way to pass params to a future?
15:46	ohpauleez	Ah gotcha. So you just need to pack up a jar yourself or nab a recent version from here: https://clojars.org/search?q=closure
15:46	pepijndevos	juhu_chapa: try future-call
15:46	ohpauleez	I maintain my own local version, as I use the HTML5 stuff and some of the third-party stuff in prod apps
15:47	pepijndevos	ohpauleez: oohing on clojars seems > 2035
15:47	pepijndevos	*nothing
15:48	ohpauleez	packing up your own custom jar isn't hard, just annoying
15:48	pepijndevos	ohpauleez: Can I have yours? Or… maybe I should just go with the seamless field
15:49	seancorfield	eggsby: i forked clj-soap thinking i could get it running on clojure 1.4 in a project i'm using at work but it didn't have the right features for what i needed... the original is here https://bitbucket.org/taka2ru/clj-soap
15:49	juhu_chapa	pepijndevos: future-call accept a function with no-params :(
15:49	juhu_chapa	pepijndevos: maybe an agent is the right choice
15:50	pepijndevos	maybe...
15:50	Sgeo	juhu_chapa, make the function a closure?
15:50	ohpauleez	pepijndevos: in my experience, if you can revert to something already in the goog-jar without too much trouble or loss of functionality, you should. If not for Occam's razor, than to just to make life easier and move on in the solution space
15:50	seancorfield	eggsby: i ended up publishing a new version (snapshot) that works with 1.4.0 / lein2 but that's as far as I got: https://clojars.org/org.clojars.seancorfield/clj-soap
15:51	Sgeo	,(let [a 5 f #(+ % a)] (f 6))
15:51	pepijndevos	ohpauleez: right, will do.
15:51	clojurebot	11
15:52	eggsby	ah seancorfield, ya i'm having to drop straight down to apache axis2 myself
15:52	seancorfield	i ended up dropping down to apache axis too... version 1 due to constraints on the middleware container i'm running my clojure code in...
15:52	seancorfield	once it was wrapped in clojure code, it was fairly painless to use :)
15:53	eggsby	is there a special syntax to access nested classes via clojure?
15:53	juhu_chapa	Sgeo: :O
15:53	pepijndevos	eggsby: dollar, I believe
15:53	eggsby	ah, thank you pepijndevos
15:54	eggsby	was driving me bonkers that nrepl wasn't autocompleting it and org.package.EnclosingClass.NestedClass wasn't working
16:04	gtrak`	Raynes: hey, I saw your fork of ring-cors, is there advantage to it from the parent?
16:05	nbeloglazov	I'm moving to repl.el from swank. I added it my load-path and require'd. Try to nrepl-jack-in, it start server, but nrepl buffer stays black. No input hint like "user =>" and when I press enter it says "Wrong type argument: integer-or-marker-p, nil".
16:07	ohpauleez	gtrak`: A look at the network info on github suggests that there are some decent improvements in the flatland version
16:08	ohpauleez	https://github.com/flatland/ring-cors/network
16:08	gtrak`	yea, I saw that, good enough for me I guess :-)
16:34	nbeloglazov	Does somebody uses nrepl.el with emacs 23? Does it work with latest nrepl.el? It seems to be broken for 23. Can somebody check?
16:35	technomancy	I know it's primarily developed using 24
16:35	Raynes	Probably easier to just use 24.
16:35	Raynes	It's officially released now, so you shouldn't have to compile from source or anything.
16:36	nbeloglazov	Raynes: seems not for ubuntu 10.04 :(
16:37	technomancy	you can use nix
16:37	nbeloglazov	So better to put this "only 24" to README
16:38	tanzoniteblack	nbeloglazov: https://launchpad.net/~cassou/+archive/emacs has an emacs24 build for lucid, I think
16:38	nbeloglazov	tanzoniteblack: thanks
16:39	tanzoniteblack	the "emacs-snapshot" package is an emacs24 build available for lucid from that ppa, doesn't look like the "emacs24" stable package supports lucid though
16:41	technomancy	it used to say it supported 24 only, then someone who used 23 said that should be removed because it worked for him, but that was a few weeks ago
16:42	nbeloglazov	Commit that broke it was made 10 days ago (I think it broke).
16:42	tanzoniteblack	as of 2 weeks ago or so, the version on elpa worked in 23
16:43	nbeloglazov	https://github.com/kingtim/nrepl.el/commit/958b042fd9ba7c17eb968709a47685dadaa809b4
16:43	nbeloglazov	completion-at-point-functions was introduced in 24
16:47	holo	hi
16:48	holo	i have a function called "ANY" in my code. i need to know to which library it belongs. is there a search engine for this kind of stuff?
16:49	tanzoniteblack	using the backtick (`) you can get the full form of a function
16:49	tanzoniteblack	,`(defn)
16:49	clojurebot	(clojure.core/defn)
16:49	lnostdal	move the cursor 'any' and press M-. this will take you to the definition of that function
16:49	lnostdal	press M-, to go back to where you where
16:51	mattmoss	git status
16:52	mattmoss	oops
16:52	holo	tanzoniteblack, lnostdal, this is a function that is possibly not even installed in my system, so i was thinking about a public code repository search engine
16:52	technomancy	that'd be a neat feature to add to clojuresphere
16:53	technomancy	some kind of hoogle port
16:54	ivaraasen	clojuresphere gives me an application error
16:54	ivaraasen	strange
16:55	technomancy	memory quota exceeded =\
16:56	ivaraasen	:/
16:57	holo	that hoogle thingy would be cool
16:57	nbeloglazov	I tried search few minutes ago there. May be it's related
16:57	ivaraasen	set up donations and I'll contribute towards extra dynos :)
16:57	technomancy	jkkramer: mind if I collab myself in to fix it?
16:57	technomancy	holo: it wouldn't be as cool as in haskell since we don't have type signatures
16:58	technomancy	probably just a config issue
16:58	xeqi	we have $findfn
16:58	technomancy	yeah, it's not using trampoline
16:59	jkkramer	technomancy: sure go for it
17:00	jkkramer	clojuresphere needs some love
17:00	technomancy	I wonder if I should have it emit a warning in the buildpack if you use run without trampoline
17:00	technomancy	jkkramer: do you have anything specific you've been wanting to do with it?
17:00	jkkramer	the main issue I ran into is that github stopped providing a way to get all clojure projects
17:01	technomancy	oh, you needed the v2 api?
17:01	technomancy	in practice how many things on github weren't accessible via clojars?
17:01	jkkramer	last I checked, none of the API stuff allowed a query for "repo language = clojure"
17:02	nbeloglazov	Updated to emacs 24. nrepl.el works fine. Indeed seems to be broken on 23.
17:02	jkkramer	there were a number of projects on github but not clojars, I believe -- e.g., non-lib projects
17:03	technomancy	jkkramer: hm; yeah that's a drag
17:03	technomancy	jkkramer: still, libraries are where clojuresphere is most useful
17:04	technomancy	wow, lots of juicy TODOs in here =)
17:04	jkkramer	technomancy: yeah. being clojars-centric would still be useful. I'll see about refreshing it this weekend, maybe get things automated
17:04	technomancy	jkkramer: maybe we'll take a look at this for a future seajure meeting
17:04	technomancy	it's a really fun problem
17:04	jkkramer	it was fun to work on, when I had access to the data I needed
17:05	technomancy	lein now warns when you try to deploy a project without description, url, or license
17:05	technomancy	so the quality of the data on clojars should improve over time
17:05	jkkramer	cool
17:06	technomancy	plus leiningen-core is a library now, so you can easily calculate transitive deps given a project.clj file
17:06	jkkramer	another nagging issue was malformed project.clj files, or ones that expected to be eval'd. it could use more robustness there
17:06	technomancy	well there you go =)
17:07	technomancy	what's "experiment with long-running threads on heroku" from the todo mean?
17:08	technomancy	jkkramer: how's the one-file raw map approach working for you?
17:09	technomancy	I was thinking jiraph or neo4j might be a good fit for this problem
17:09	technomancy	but I appreciate the simplicity of the approach you're currently using =)
17:12	jkkramer	technomancy: re long-running threads - I was wondering whether a thread could be spun off on the web dyno to refresh the graph. Normally you'd have a cron job or worker dyno do that sort of thing, I think(?)
17:12	technomancy	oh, and it has to be in-process since you don't have any way to persist state
17:12	technomancy	if you were using neo4j you could manually initiate `heroku run lein run -m clojuresphere.refresh` or use the scheduler addon
17:12	holo	xeqi, that's a really nice addition, that "findfn", but what i want is rather more simple than that. just a search by function name pattern, even if it returned 10 libraries, it would be a good result
17:13	technomancy	holo: for the record, ANY comes from compojure
17:13	technomancy	holo: but you're right that it would be a cool thing to have
17:13	technomancy	jkkramer: you could do that with an executor if you needed it in-process
17:13	holo	technomancy, hahaha, thanks for the brain database :)
17:14	technomancy	jkkramer: I deployed a fix for the out-of-memory error
17:15	jkkramer	technomancy: right. Since it was a hobby hack, I had a limited threshold for new tech, so tried to keep it simple
17:15	jkkramer	technomancy: awesome thanks
17:15	technomancy	jkkramer: we poked a bit at neo4j at a past seajure meeting
17:16	technomancy	would you want to go in that direction if we ended up hacking it at a meeting?
17:17	jkkramer	technomancy: sure, any and all improvements welcome. neo4j has been on my list of things to learn for a while
17:19	technomancy	jkkramer: considering "hard to find" was the main complaint about clojure libs in cemerick's survey I think clojuresphere is a pretty important project
17:21	emezeske	technomancy: Without clojuresphere, there's no good way to ask "what's the de facto library for X" except in IRC :)
17:22	shaungilchrist	I was honestly unaware of it til just now hah. this is great
17:22	technomancy	emezeske: yes, and nothing will ever come close to the wonderfulness of this channel =)
17:22	jkkramer	even clojuresphere can't always decide what the de facto lib is, though
17:23	technomancy	sure; there's only so far you can go with an algorithmic approach, but it scales like nobody's business
17:23	jkkramer	e.g., when a lib changes hands, or a fork becomes the new standard even though it's not popular yet
17:23	emezeske	jkkramer: That's definitely true, but it sure could help
17:23	jkkramer	maybe it could incorporate some user input/feedback
17:23	emezeske	jkkramer: With a bit of human intuition to make sense of the data
17:23	jkkramer	upvotes, vouching, "mark as de facto" or something
17:23	technomancy	jkkramer: yeah, there's no recency decay factored in yet, is there?
17:24	technomancy	whoa, compojure 0.6.3
17:24	jkkramer	technomancy: don't think so. even then, just because a project hasn't been updated recently, doesn't mean it's inactive. it might just be bug-free :)
17:24	jkkramer	it hasn't been updated in a long time
17:25	technomancy	yeah, but a dependency from an active project should count for more
17:26	technomancy	IMO anyway
17:26	jkkramer	it should count for something, for sure
17:26	andersf	maybe even measure recent commits, number of persons involved etc
17:27	jkkramer	get some machine learning in there
17:27	technomancy	get bradford cross on the phone
17:27	andersf	jkkramer: any plans of performing a reindex anytime soon? :)
17:28	jkkramer	i'll do one tonight. got put on the back burner when I found the github harvester stopped working
17:28	jkkramer	so…github won't be very accurate but at least clojars will
17:30	advirol	http://www.youtube.com/?v=djytP2ls5Eg
17:30	advirol	sry
18:00	SegFaultAX\|work2	amalloy: I like your solution to #77
18:01	SegFaultAX\|work2	amalloy: On 4clojure, that is.
18:01	Frozenlock	I've added mouse support to zyzanie, for those interested in adding shortcuts in their cljs app. https://github.com/Frozenlock/zyzanie
18:02	amalloy	heh, thanks. group-by frequencies solves pretty much the whole problem
18:02	SegFaultAX\|work2	amalloy: Yup, it's similiar to my solution.
18:02	SegFaultAX\|work2	(defn anagrams [words] (into #{} (map set (filter #(< 1 (count %)) (vals (group-by frequencies words))))))
18:02	SegFaultAX\|work2	amalloy: When I saw that you also used group-by freq I was like "damn, I was hoping I was being slick with that"
18:04	kjellski	is there a function in clojure that could be called collect-by? a function that lets you provide an f that creates a new bucket for each new return value and collects contents of coll by these values?
18:04	amalloy	&(doc group-by)
18:04	lazybot	⇒ "([f coll]); Returns a map of the elements of coll keyed by the result of f on each element. The value at each key will be a vector of the corresponding elements, in the order they appeared in coll."
18:05	kjellski	amalloy: -.- sometimes my brain even hurts itself... ^^ thanks!
18:05	SegFaultAX\|work2	kjellski: It's funny because we were literally talking about a 4clojure solution that uses it not 1 minute before you joined the chan.
18:06	kjellski	SegFaultAX\|work2: problem 50 ?
18:06	kjellski	^^
18:06	SegFaultAX\|work2	amalloy: I really want to get more comfortable using composition in Clojure. In Haskell, (.) flows very nicelly. For some reason I just don't think about it as much yet in Clojure.
18:06	SegFaultAX\|work2	I'm getting there, though.
18:07	amalloy	well, it doesn't flow as nicely as haskell
18:07	SegFaultAX\|work2	It flows fine. It's just slightly more part of the normal syntax, ya know?
18:07	gtrak`	every time I try to use comp, I end up thinking -> is better
18:07	SegFaultAX\|work2	That and ($) are just part of idiomatic Haskell expressions.
18:08	SegFaultAX\|work2	gtrak`: -> and ->> aren't really reusable though, are they? I mean composition actually produces a new function where as -> just threads a value through successive forms.
18:09	andersf	kjellski: #77
18:09	andersf	kjellski: sorry for spoiling :>
18:09	gtrak`	,(#(-> % inc inc) 2)
18:09	clojurebot	4
18:10	SegFaultAX\|work2	andersf: That example is too trivial to be useful.
18:10	andersf	pweh
18:10	SegFaultAX\|work2	,(let [double-inc (comp inc inc)] (double-inc 2))
18:10	clojurebot	4
18:11	SegFaultAX\|work2	I guess the point is I don't yet associate composition with threading. Or rather, I don't think "should this use function composition or the threading operator?" They have different uses in my mind, perhaps wrongly so.
18:12	gtrak`	there's a bit fewer stack frames with threading when you can use it, that's probably not significant though
18:13	SegFaultAX\|work2	gtrak`: Like, 1 fewer, right?
18:14	gtrak`	yes, I suppose so :-)
18:15	gtrak`	it feels like the same intent for me, but I find comp more awkward to use in practice, plus the left/right distinction
18:15	arrdem	why not k-1 for k composed functions? naively if I'm going to thread the return value of a function through k others I sequentially create stack frames for all K functions and eval from the top down
18:16	SegFaultAX\|work2	arrdem: The extra frame comes from the function returned by comp
18:17	arrdem	,(let [x (fn [a] (inc a)) y inc z inc] (x (y (z 1))))
18:17	clojurebot	4
18:17	SegFaultAX\|work2	arrdem: Eg h = (f . g) then we have 3 stack frames right? h g f
18:17	gtrak`	plus the composition is at run-time, so there's the cost of the closure
18:17	gtrak`	whenever it decides to get allocated
18:17	arrdem	push three frames pluss the let...
18:17	arrdem	then reduce down
18:18	rufoa	,(contains? (transient #{:foo}) :foo)
18:18	clojurebot	false
18:18	rufoa	^ is this intended behaviour? note that 'get' works on transient maps, 'nth' on transient vectors, 'count' on all transient structures etc
18:18	gtrak`	so, (let [a (comp...)] ...) is worse than (def a (comp...))
18:18	amalloy	SegFaultAX\|work2: haskell's tail calls surely mean that h = f . g doesn't consume three stack frames, right?
18:18	SegFaultAX\|work2	amalloy: But this isn't haskell.
18:19	SegFaultAX\|work2	If tails calls can be eliminated, then it can happen in place, sure.
18:20	SegFaultAX\|work2	rufoa: That's strange indeed. I'd be curious to know why that failed.
18:20	rufoa	SegFaultAX\|work2: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/pull/12 this perhaps?
18:21	rufoa	i'm not familiar with the internals of clojure but it seems like the same issue
18:23	surma	Hey guys. I just did `(let [w1 w2 w3 :as words] (split line #"\s+") ...)` and words is bound to an vector longer than 3 items. How can I idiomatically bind the resulting vector?
18:24	tomoj	rufoa: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-700
18:24	gtrak`	surma: i think there must be a typo somewhere
18:24	SegFaultAX\|work2	,(let [[a b c & more] [:a :b :c :d :e :f]] (a b c more))
18:24	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args passed to keyword: :a>
18:24	SegFaultAX\|work2	,(let [[a b c & more] [:a :b :c :d :e :f]] [a b c more])
18:24	clojurebot	[:a :b :c (:d :e :f)]
18:24	rufoa	thanks tomoj, didn't notice that
18:25	SegFaultAX\|work2	surma: ^ Like that?
18:25	gtrak`	,(let [[w1 w2 w3 :as words] (split line #"\s+" "hello how are you doing?")] words)
18:25	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: split in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
18:26	gtrak`	,(let [[w1 w2 w3 :as words] (clojure.string/split line #"\s+" "hello how are you doing?")] words)
18:26	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: line in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
18:26	surma	,(let [[w1 w2 w3 :as words] (clojure.string/split "hello how are you doing?" #"\s+")] words)
18:26	clojurebot	["hello" "how" "are" "you" "doing?"]
18:27	surma	I want words to be ["hello" "how" "are"]
18:27	gtrak`	surma: doesn't work that way
18:27	surma	gtrak`: figured as much ^^
18:27	gtrak`	,(macroexpand-1 '(let [[w1 w2 w3 :as words] (clojure.string/split "hello how are you doing?" #"\s+")] words))
18:27	clojurebot	(let* [vec__168 (clojure.string/split "hello how are you doing?" #"\s+") w1 (clojure.core/nth vec__168 0 nil) w2 ...] words)
18:27	emezeske	,(let [[w1 w2 w3 :as words] (clojure.string/split "hello how are you doing?" #"\s+")] (take 3 words))
18:27	clojurebot	("hello" "how" "are")
18:28	gtrak`	this is the expansion: (let* [vec__2006 (clojure.string/split "hello how are you doing?" #"\s+") w1 (clojure.core/nth vec__2006 0 nil) w2 (clojure.core/nth vec__2006 1 nil) w3 (clojure.core/nth vec__2006 2 nil) words vec__2006] words)
18:28	SegFaultAX\|work2	surma: What are you trying to do?
18:28	gtrak`	you can see words is bound to the result of split
18:29	gtrak`	you can make a custom macro, or you can do [w1 w2 w3] or take 3.
18:29	surma	SegFaultAX\|work2: Nothing really. I'm just playing around with ":as". Learning Clojure ;)
18:30	surma	gtrak`: Okay. That's all I wanted to know. Thanks for the expansion. Gonna remember that in the future ;)
18:30	gtrak`	np
18:31	SegFaultAX\|work2	Does loop..recur generate a trampoline internally?
18:32	gtrak`	SegFaultAX\|work2: I just took a quick peek, it looks like loop generates one of these: http://asm.ow2.org/asm33/javadoc/user/org/objectweb/asm/Label.html so that should be a clue
18:33	gtrak`	doc says 'Labels are used for jump, goto, and switch instructions'
18:35	gtrak`	and in recur, there's a line, gen.goTo(loopLabel)
18:36	gtrak`	the compiler keeps the labels on a var stack, so that determines the recur target (I wonder if I could hack that ;-)
18:38	thorbjornDX	is it normal to cringe at python code after learning about a lisp?
18:39	vilonis	yes, which is strange because python code seemod so elegent before
18:40	technomancy	it's not technically required, but, you know...
18:40	hoover_damm	eventually you stop cringing at things and learn to just accept them as is
18:40	thorbjornDX	vilonis: I find myself thinking a helper 'function' that uses [].append is ugly
18:40	nDuff	...soooo many places where a bit of nil punning, or a let, or real lambdas, or somesuch would save me extra lines.
18:41	thorbjornDX	hoover_damm: Yeah, I know that python/perl are good languages, and have their places
18:41	thorbjornDX	nDuff: yeah, I definitely hit the limits of lambdas today
18:41	tanzoniteblack	http://programmablelife.blogspot.com/2012/08/conways-game-of-life-in-clojure.html has a section at the bottom, where the clojure example is almost identically written in "un-idiomatic python", I find that's what my Python looks like quite a lot now a days
18:42	hoover_damm	thorbjornDX, :) I'm just an old Sysadmin who's never stopped evolving from shell into ruby into python into lisp into clojure.
18:42	hoover_damm	thorbjornDX, it's just another tool to help :) win
18:42	hoover_damm	one that I rather like
18:42	thorbjornDX	nDuff: and that helper function that I was doing had one of the notorious 'm = reobj.match(blah); if m is not None: l.append(m.groupdict())'
18:43	thorbjornDX	hoover_damm: I really want to incorporate some clj into my work, but I'm not quite there :p
18:44	hoover_damm	thorbjornDX, I found the absolute best way. Infrastructure management
18:44	technomancy	hoover_damm: pallet?
18:44	hoover_damm	nah
18:44	hoover_damm	not cm
18:44	hoover_damm	nor cmdb
18:44	nDuff	...oh -- the other thing I really wanted today was partial
18:44	technomancy	what are those?
18:44	thorbjornDX	infrastructure management... hmm
18:45	thorbjornDX	hoover_damm: can you give me an example?
18:46	emezeske	nDuff: functools has partial
18:46	hoover_damm	technomancy, one of my clients runs on multiple infrastructure providers. We've taken on some burdons of our own that make our life fun. But to start just a lame restful/dashboard interface that you can query all the available servers, their status, credentials... reinstall it, manage provisioning status
18:46	technomancy	gotcha
18:46	hoover_damm	technomancy, i've reviewed many systems and basically they all end up opinionated
18:47	hoover_damm	for us it starts with just basic ubuntu and being able to catalog and search our infra and have it pull data from 3rd party api endpoints
18:47	hoover_damm	some own data collection as well for what you cannot get via api
18:48	hoover_damm	and when your spending 500k on infrastructure a month people want it pretty ... yeah
18:49	hoover_damm	and between currently 3 providers (1 virtual, 1 paas, 1 metal hosting)
18:50	nDuff	emezeske: Yes, but this was actually in a case where idiomatic Python was object-oriented, not functional.
18:50	emezeske	nDuff: I'm just saying, if you want partial, you can have it
18:51	nDuff	...so, what I _really_ wanted was an easy way to create a subclass of an object with a default value for a constructor argument...
18:51	thorbjornDX	nDuff: can't you use a metaclass for that?
18:52	nDuff	Could, but anything more than 2 lines is too much code for too little benefit here. This was "sure would be convenient if..." thing.
18:52	thorbjornDX	nDuff: fairNuff
18:56	dnolen	can now decode SourceMapV3 http://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/blob/source-map/src/clj/cljs/sourcemap.clj
18:56	emezeske	nDuff: lambda args: MyClass(42, args)
18:57	dnolen	next step preserve line / col info for every emitted symbol and merge w/ this and create new source map.
18:57	emezeske	dnolen: high five!
18:57	tanzoniteblack	nDuff: you mean like this http://pastebin.com/c7gEQChX ?
18:57	dnolen	so maybe we can show off stepping in Chrome for Strange Loop?
18:57	emezeske	dnolen: That's such a big deal
18:57	dnolen	and all you hard core CLJSers can finally get a little bit of help w/ your simple & advanced compiled code
18:59	tanzoniteblack	nDuff: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1178754/ is that better? I don't want to dump a bit of Python code here
18:59	nDuff	nod. I don't actually remember what I was doing at the time when "damn, this would be easier with a partial" went through my head
18:59	nDuff	so I couldn't say with certainty whether that's an exact fit or not.
19:00	nDuff	It _is_ a fairly compelling argument that I've gotten pretty far out of #python headspace, though.
19:00	thorbjornDX	i need to use *args more often
19:02	tanzoniteblack	nDuff: I have more of a problem of getting out of the python mind-set and into the clojure one; but considering how functional my python tends to be, it's less painful to do that then it is to code in Java
19:05	Frozenlock	I'm trying to run himera, but I run into this: Error: problem requiring leiningen.js hook Exception in thread "main" java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate leiningen/js__init.class or leiningen/js.clj on classpath:
19:05	Frozenlock	But I can see the 'missing' file, it's there!
19:06	gtrak`	I don't miss python really, clojure's more dynamic, transparent, and faster once you get past the initial learning.
19:07	gtrak`	I can jump into the source and have a good idea of what it's doing
19:15	Gnosis-	technomancy: I wrote a workaround macro for the slingshot bug we were talking about: https://www.refheap.com/paste/4783
19:16	Gnosis-	I'm not sure it's useful to you or anyone but me, though
19:30	unlink	Is there a more concise expression for this: (split-with (comp (partial = method) :method) xs)
19:32	hyPiRion	unlink: Method is a local, right?
19:32	hyPiRion	/s/Method/method
19:32	unlink	hyPiRion: yes, it is let-bound.
19:32	emezeske	unlink: Maybe (split-with #(= % :method) xs) ?
19:33	hyPiRion	emezeske: You mean (split-with #(= method (:method %)) xs), right?
19:33	unlink	No, using an anonymous lambda it would be (split-with #(= method (:method %)) xs)
19:33	hyPiRion	It's essentialy the same
19:33	emezeske	Oh, I misread the original, sorry
19:34	xeqi	(split-with #(-> % :method (= method)) xs) ?
19:34	xeqi	not that it changes much
19:34	unlink	I was hoping for something similarly concise to: break ((== method) . _method)
19:34	hyPiRion	Do you need both parts?
19:35	unlink	Yes.
19:37	hyPiRion	Well, the closest other thing I can think of is (group-by :method xs), but it's more of a filter/remove thing.
19:38	unlink	Right, I like that too.
19:39	unlink	Thanks.
20:00	kjellski	is there a debug let? that prints all definitions? or something similar.... ?
20:03	emezeske	kjellski: I don't know the answer to your question, but there is a hack that I use occasionally to see things in a let:
20:03	emezeske	,(let [a 1 b 2 _ (println a b) c 3] (+ a b c)])
20:03	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: Unmatched delimiter: ]>
20:03	emezeske	,(let [a 1 b 2 _ (println a b) c 3] (+ a b c))
20:03	clojurebot	1 2
20:04	clojurebot	6
20:09	hyPiRion	I usually redefine prn to (fn prn [a] (clojure.core/prn a) a) - it's rather nifty for debugging.
20:10	hyPiRion	So my way would be (let [a (prn 1) b (prn 2) c (prn 3)] (+ a b c))
20:10	hyPiRion	Though I don't know if it's idiomatic - it's something I've dragged along from common lisp.
20:21	djanatyn	I'm having a lot of trouble getting clojure working on windows
20:22	casion	more information would be nice
20:22	djanatyn	I'm using clojure mode version 1.11.5, emacs 24, and Leiningen 2.0.0-preview10 on Java 1.6.0_11 Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM
20:23	djanatyn	sorry, was getting versions before I explained my issue :)
20:23	djanatyn	so, so far I've got lein working nicely, but I'm having issues with clojure-jack-in. when I try to connect I get this error:
20:24	djanatyn	(error "Could not start swank server: '$SHELL' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program, or batch file")
20:24	djanatyn	I'm using eshell, due to some restrictions on the computer I'm using
20:25	hyPiRion	djanatyn: Are you able to run "M-x shell" without issues?
20:25	djanatyn	nope, command prompt disabled :(
20:26	djanatyn	this is a school loaned laptop, and they have a few things locked down to prevent mischief.
20:26	djanatyn	is enabling the command prompt necessary to get clojure-mode working?
20:28	xeqi	you could try `lein swank` from the project and M-x slime-connect
20:28	djanatyn	ah, I see what's up. clojure-swank-command is set to "echo \"lein jack-in %s\" \| $SHELL -l"
20:30	djanatyn	...and also lein doesn't have swank. what is the preferred way to add plugins with lein 2?
20:31	xeqi	for swank, add {:user {:plugins [[lein-swank "1.4.4"]]}} to ~/.lein/profiles.clj
20:31	hyPiRion	.lein/profiles.clj I believe.
20:31	djanatyn	sorry, just did :) I'll try googling next time before asking
20:32	Raynes	Consider using nrepl.el instead of swank and SLIME.
20:32	Raynes	swank-clojure is deprecated.
20:34	djanatyn	thanks Raynes! I installed nrepl and everything is working fine
20:34	kd4joa	swank clojure is still more stable than nrepl at this point. I'm sticking with it for now, but you are right nrepl is supposed to be the favored
20:34	kd4joa	I'll keep checking out nrepl and will make the move when it stops crashing so much
20:35	djanatyn	umm, hmm. perhaps I said that too soon.
20:36	kd4joa	give it a try and see how it works for you
20:37	kd4joa	most of the time it works great for me, but I've had a couple instances where it freaked out on me
20:38	kd4joa	and it is the tool that it sounds like people are going to spend their time on
20:38	hyPiRion	As long as you don't use paredit, you should be relatively fine. But it's pretty awesome at killing paredit's keybindings.
20:40	djanatyn	D: I love using paredit
20:41	djanatyn	also, I'm getting this error when I try to compile a file with C-c C-k: clojure.lang.LispReader$ReaderException: java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading string
20:42	hyPiRion	I'm using bodil's hack to get over it while waiting for a new version: https://github.com/bodil/emacs.d/blob/master/bodil-lisp.el#L55
20:43	djanatyn	ah, looks like someone else had the same error 3 days ago, and they released a new version of nrepl with a fix
20:44	brainproxy	good tutorial for learning how to use YourKit in combo w/ clojure and Eclipse
20:44	brainproxy	?
20:50	arrdem	can someone point out what's wrong with the IO in this gist? for some reason it (read)s without end. https://gist.github.com/3561992
21:00	arrdem	nvm got it
21:00	djanatyn	what was it?
21:01	arrdem	something with the way lein was bootstrapping the program. If I just `clj <foo.clj>` it works fine
21:02	arrdem	probably a bug in my project.clj, but I don't really care since this is a script anyway.
21:06	dansalmo	How can I split a sequence like '(\b \o "F" \: \h \o) at the \:? I tried (split-with (partial = \: '(\b \o "F" \: \h \o) ) but it gives a '() split result.
21:07	dansalmo	(partial = \:)
21:09	djanatyn	alright, thanks guys! I've got nrepl and emacs set up, and I'll be able to use clojure at my school and in my stats class :)
21:16	kd4joa	stats class? very cool. what kind of stats class and how are you going to use it?
21:17	Raynes	kd4joa: What do you mean by 'crashing so much'?
21:17	kd4joa	it gets into the situation where when I switch to the nrepl buffer it throws an exception as soon as I switch to it
21:17	kd4joa	that's been the biggest problem
21:18	Raynes	Oh. The word 'crashing' confused me.
21:18	Raynes	I thought you meant Emacs was actually crashing.
21:18	kd4joa	sorry. that was kind of a generic expression
21:18	kd4joa	I should have been more specific
21:19	Raynes	But yeah, I imagine all those little issues will be fixed soon.
21:19	Raynes	For every nrepl issue, there are 15 that a new user coming to Clojure has with SLIME.
21:19	Raynes	So I'm optimistic.
21:19	kd4joa	I'm sure they will since it's getting so much attention
21:19	kd4joa	yeah I am too. I do remember the pain of getting SLIME working
21:20	casion	getting slime working is pretty easy with 24
21:20	casion	at least it was for me
21:20	Raynes	Yeah, an ancient version of SLIME.
21:20	Raynes	That clojure-jack-in hacks into .emacs.d for you.
21:20	Raynes	That is 15 different kinds of disgusting.
21:21	casion	that is true
21:21	casion	but it works for the most part :)
21:26	gtuckerkellogg	dos nrepl.el have something analogous to slime-compile-defun yet?
21:27	Raynes	What does that do?
21:27	gtuckerkellogg	it compiles the top level form
21:27	gtuckerkellogg	I have it attached to C-c C-c
21:28	gtuckerkellogg	(or maybe that's how it comes in slime)
21:28	Raynes	gtuckerkellogg: C-M-x
21:28	Raynes	gtuckerkellogg: nrepl readme has a list of commands.
21:28	Raynes	nrepl.el readme, that is.
21:31	gtuckerkellogg	Tnanks Raynes :)
21:31	gtuckerkellogg	i apprently missed that one.
21:32	gtuckerkellogg	I was really happy to see output of evals in a clojure buffer are now sent to the repl
21:33	djanatyn	hmm, nrepl's auto-complete is really slow
21:33	djanatyn	I'm using ac-nrepl, which I found on marmalade. how do most people using nrepl handle auto completion?
21:35	djanatyn	ooh, never mind. I wasn't actually using ac-nrepl, and now it's a lot faster.
21:38	xeqi	kd4joa: for reference, theres an issue for that at https://github.com/kingtim/nrepl.el/issues/86
21:50	Frozenlock	Why does lein throw an error when trying to run himera? Apparently it has something to do with leiningen.js (not on classpath?!) I'm pretty sure it has to do with this --> :hooks [leiningen.js]
21:50	Frozenlock	(from https://github.com/fogus/himera/blob/master/project.clj)
21:52	holo	hi
21:54	cjfrisz	Man... I really want nrepl-jack-in to do stack traces like swank-clojure
21:54	cjfrisz	I really like everything else about it, but the stack trace handling kills me
21:54	djanatyn	hmm. does anyone know where I'm supposed to put incanter.jar?
21:55	djanatyn	I tried installing it with lein, but apparently there's a mongodb jar it can't find
21:56	djanatyn	also, I think the incanter blog with all the howtos is down :(
22:07	hugod	cjfrisz: ritz-nrepl does that
22:11	Raynes	hugod: Why is your stuff not going into nrepl proper?
22:12	hugod	Raynes: because it adds a ton of stuff, and means you use two jvm processes
22:12	Raynes	Bleh
22:13	hugod	it also shares common code with the swank version of ritz
22:15	hugod	Raynes: so the answer is, it was easier to do like that. I have nothing against putting parts of into nrepl/nrepl.el
22:21	gtuckerkellogg	djanatyn :(
22:28	cjfrisz	hugod: Is it a pain to install?
22:28	cjfrisz	The github page made it sound like a pain
22:30	jasonjckn	amalloy: have your patches for reducers been comitted yet?
22:31	amalloy	no
22:31	jasonjckn	amalloy: k, i'll revisit mine when yours are in
22:32	jasonjckn	i was busy for a while, but i guess you've been blocked on rhickey and I didn't miss too much
22:32	jasonjckn	i'm on the contributors list merely by signing the agreement, i guess my work here is done ;) jk
22:46	SegFaultAX\|work2	I want to filter a map to only keys where the values match a given predicate, what's the best way to do that?
22:55	technomancy	jkkramer: I have clojuresphere working with clojure 1.4 and the latest compojure stack
22:56	jkkramer	technomancy: whoa cool. I was just sitting down to see about refreshing the data
22:56	technomancy	I punted on the github section though
22:58	technomancy	jkkramer: have you seen drawbridge?
22:58	technomancy	I could add this in too: https://devcenter.heroku.com/articles/debugging-clojure
23:00	jkkramer	technomancy: I've seen it. I've generally shied away from plugging a repl into a live site but no harm in having the option I suppose
23:01	technomancy	jkkramer: actually probably not much point right now since there's basically no difference between dev and production
23:02	tmciver	SegFaultAX\|work2: how about (into {} (filter your-val-pred your-map))
23:03	technomancy	jkkramer: sent a pull request for my modernize branch
23:03	technomancy	you may want to do your refresh first since I haven't tested the switch to tentacles
23:03	tmciver	SegFaultAX\|work2: your-val-pred would have to call (val %) at some point.
23:07	technomancy	jkkramer: if we're going to swap the storage out for another backend that might make sense to do first, don't you think?
23:07	jkkramer	technomancy: merged. going to futz with the github code anyway before refrsh
23:07	technomancy	ok, cool
23:08	technomancy	I figure a different backend would probably be fairly high-impact; the kind of thing you'd want to do sooner rather than later?
23:08	jkkramer	I wonder how accurate this is… https://api.github.com/legacy/repos/search/project.clj?language=clojure. can't search for empty keyword, and it doesn't say what it searches
23:08	clj_newb_3802	so I've written an app in clojurescript, because I hate the java graphics api
23:09	clj_newb_3802	now my question: is there a way to bundle this application as a desktop applicatino somehow?
23:09	technomancy	jkkramer: it's not very big
23:09	technomancy	oh, it's paginated
23:09	technomancy	hm
23:09	jkkramer	technomancy: possibly yeah. Have to wrap my head around the code & data again. it's been a while
23:09	jkkramer	right
23:12	jkkramer	searching for clojure yields 88 pages of projects… https://api.github.com/legacy/repos/search/clojure?language=clojure&start_page=88. That seems to be the best to be gotten through the API
23:12	technomancy	nice
23:41	cjfrisz	I love ripping out my own code
23:41	cjfrisz	So much fun
23:50	john2x	hmm, how do I call a function which is (defn)'d after the function calling it?
23:51	tmciver	john2x: declare? ##(doc declare)
23:51	lazybot	⇒ "Macro ([& names]); defs the supplied var names with no bindings, useful for making forward declarations."
23:52	john2x	ah thanks!