#clojure – 2012-08-13

2012-08-13

00:26	djanatyn	when using defrecord, is there a way to explicitly specify what type you want things to be?
00:27	djanatyn	like, if you want a collection of some sort, or a string or a number
00:27	McMartin	You can extend the type or inline it like it were reify
00:27	McMartin	I don't believe you can pick an actual class to extend from without using proxy, though
00:28	djanatyn	nod
00:28	djanatyn	clojure's records are a lot like Haskell's
00:30	McMartin	Clojure has the best immutable datatypes I've seen outside of Haskell, yeah
00:36	djanatyn	umm, another question!
00:36	djanatyn	I'm using hiccup.core and trying to make a bunch of p elements
00:37	djanatyn	I have a list of strings, foo. I want to return [:p bar] for each bar in foo
00:38	djanatyn	I tried (map #(:p %) '("one" "two" "three")) but it returns (nil nil nil) since it tries to eval (:p "one") (:p "two") and (:p "three"), which are all nil
00:39	Cr8	that #(:p %) is equivalent to (fn [x] (:p x)), or it tries to lookup the key :p in each string as if it were a map
00:40	jeremyheiler	Maybe (map #(vector :p %) ["one" "two" "three"])
00:40	Cr8	you can use (map (fn [x] [:p x]) ...
00:40	qmx	is amotoen the best peg-parser in clojure land? any other recommendations?
00:40	Cr8	jeremyheiler's suggestion also will work
00:41	Cr8	or even (map (partial vector :p) ...
00:41	jeremyheiler	,(map #(vector :p %) ["one" "two" "three"])
00:41	clojurebot	([:p "one"] [:p "two"] [:p "three"])
00:41	djanatyn	Cr8: thanks!
01:03	djanatyn	gah. I feel so dirty. it's really weird using functional programming concepts without the strictness of haskell's type system
01:03	djanatyn	I really like clojure, though. this is cool!
01:03	djanatyn	I just kinda feel like my code is going to explode
01:04	McMartin	Don't forget that evaluation is usually eager in Clojure >_>
01:06	djanatyn	...am I really supposed to use (spit) and (slurp) for IO?
01:06	djanatyn	Or is there an alternative that's more idiomatic?
01:07	jeremyheiler	clojure.java.io are the wrappers around the standard java io classes.
01:08	jeremyheiler	spit and slurp use that underneath.
01:19	amalloy	djanatyn: btw, i generally advocate the use of 'for in many situations where some would use 'map. for example, (for [p '[one two three]] [:p p])
01:21	amalloy	and no, spit and slurp are hardly the only options. they're pretty lightweight, where you don't mind forcing everything into a string for a while. for large tasks, something more like reader and writer
01:26	djanatyn	nod
01:27	djanatyn	http://sprunge.us/aLaY?cl
01:29	djanatyn	or alternatively http://dpaste.org/2JxDa/ without common lisp syntax highlighting
01:46	lambda-stu	djanatyn: i'd use a map rather than a record for posts. see http://cemerick.com/2011/07/05/flowchart-for-choosing-the-right-clojure-type-definition-form/
01:50	djanatyn	lambda-stu: thanks!
02:18	harja	3
02:18	harja	oops.
02:33	Bahman_Mourning	I have this weird problem with lein...
02:34	Bahman_Mourning	When I do clojure-jack-in the REPL starts fine...
02:34	Bahman_Mourning	no errors whatsoever.
02:34	Bahman_Mourning	But none of my namespaces are available...I have to compile them manually to be accessible from REPL.
02:36	Bahman_Mourning	Any hints?
02:39	DaoWen	Bahman_Mourning: is lein starting in the right directory?
02:39	DaoWen	you should be able to check by running (System/getProperty "user.dir")
02:40	Bahman_Mourning	DaoWen: By "right directory" you mean the one that contains project.clj? If that's the case, yes.
02:43	DaoWen	Bahman_Mourning: what do you mean by "manually compile" ?
02:43	Bahman_Mourning	DaoWen: I have to use C-c C-k or C-c C-r
02:44	DaoWen	what happens if you run (use 'your.name.space)
02:44	DaoWen	?
02:44	DaoWen	(before manually compiling it)
02:45	Bahman_Mourning	Let me check...
02:46	Bahman_Mourning	DaoWen: (use) returns nil as expected but then the symbols are not accessible again.
02:47	DaoWen	that's confusing... it doesn't throw an error, but you can't access any of the vars.
02:47	Bahman_Mourning	Exactly.
02:48	Bahman_Mourning	DaoWen: Does it help if I put my project.clj on pastebin?
02:48	DaoWen	Bahman_Mourning: I don't use emacs, so I don't really know what the problem is
02:49	Bahman_Mourning	DaoWen: Ah...thank you anyway.
02:49	DaoWen	that might help someone else help you—but most everyone else are probably asleep
02:49	Bahman_Mourning	DaoWen: One thing. If I start “lein repl” from the command line it shows a normal behaviour...my namespaces are accessible.
02:50	Bahman_Mourning	But “lein swank” and clojure-jack-in don't work.
02:51	Bahman_Mourning	don't work = don't work as expected :-)
02:52	DaoWen	yeah, I was thinking swank might have been starting up in the wrong directory—that was my best guess. I really don't understand how calling (use '...) could return successfully but not have any of the symbols available.
02:53	DaoWen	Bahman_Mourning: good luck!
02:53	Bahman_Mourning	DaoWen: Thanks again for your time.
03:12	Bahman_Mourning	I used “[lein-swank "1.4.4"]” in my :plugins section...
03:13	Bahman_Mourning	But when I check the classpath of the running swank-clojure, there is only “.m2/repository/swank-clojure/swank-clojure/1.4.0/swank-clojure-1.4.0.jar”
03:15	DaoWen	Bahman_Mourning: have you tried running lein deps?
03:16	Bahman_Mourning	DaoWen: Zillions of times :-)
03:17	DaoWen	haha
03:17	DaoWen	yeah, I'm not going to be of any help here
03:40	djanatyn	Is there a 'map that throws out the results and evaluates solely for side-effects?
03:40	DaoWen	djanatyn: try doseq
03:41	djanatyn	kind of like mapM_ in haskell
03:41	DaoWen	djanatyn: doseq is more like for, but I think it will do what you want
03:41	DaoWen	http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/doseq
03:42	djanatyn	yes, it does, and it actually makes it more concise. thank you!
03:43	DaoWen	djanatyn: glad I could help!
04:21	djanatyn	How would I have clojure sort through dates? Can I just use the sort function, or do I have to manually specify how to sort dates?
04:21	djanatyn	I was going to use either the date-clj or clj-time libraries on clojars.
04:28	hyPiRion	djanatyn: clj-time is nice
04:44	AustinYun	i wonder, is there anything i can do that other people might actually find useful :p
04:49	ro_st	can you make coffee? -grin-
04:54	jyc	does anyone here use counterclockwise and know how to terminate a REPL (sorry if this is the wrong channel)
05:01	AustinYun	does ctrl+D not work?
05:05	mduerksen	jyc: do you mean how to interrupt a running evaluation in the repl, or really killing the repl itself?
05:06	jyc	mduerksen: killing the REPL - otherwise it seems running again just piles up processes
05:09	clgv	jyc: got to console view and click the red square
05:10	clgv	*go
05:10	ro_st	i don't suppose anyone knows how to teach Chrome to show the mimetype application/clojure as plaintext?
05:11	jyc	clgv: awesome, thanks so much. is there a keyboard shortcut for that?
05:12	clgv	jyc: I don't know - you can search for it in perferences -> keys
05:14	Raynes	AustinYun: Did you ever take a look at that example I showed you?
05:15	AustinYun	yup
05:15	AustinYun	haven't really poked around yet though, although it was quite short
05:18	AustinYun	hm, i don't understand the control bit
05:19	AustinYun	oh wait
05:25	AustinYun	man how does that work
05:25	AustinYun	it's liek magic
05:25	AustinYun	it behaves incorrectly where (abs n) == the array length but
05:26	DaoWen	ro_st: try this https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/cgjalgdhmbpaacnnejmodfinclbdgaci?hl=en-US
05:26	DaoWen	let us know how it works
05:28	AustinYun	Raynes: ok i honestly don't know what's going on lol
05:28	AustinYun	except if you for example, do (add-one [1 1 1 1] 1 1) you get [2 2 1 1] which is wrong
05:28	ro_st	thanks DaoWen. will do
05:29	AustinYun	seems to just be off by 1 in the number of times it will increment
05:29	ro_st	anyone using fetch?
05:30	ro_st	i want to use it but i'm not using noir
05:30	DaoWen	AustinYun: are you still working on that double-reverse array increment problem?
05:30	AustinYun	er i wasn't really, but raynes sent me a solution
05:31	AustinYun	which is 11 lines, which is less than half of mine
05:31	AustinYun	DaoWen: refheap.com/paste/4252
05:38	DaoWen	AustinYun: I don't think that's doing the same thing as the problem you described
05:40	DaoWen	AustinYun: the problem said to increment up to N occurrences of the number, but that code looks like it just searches N slots in the vector and increments any occurrences of the target value that appear
05:40	AustinYun	i've got it open in a repl right now
05:40	AustinYun	and i believe you're right
05:41	AustinYun	it tricked me into thinking it worked because for the example array [1 4 1 5 1]
05:41	AustinYun	and the example params, it works
05:41	AustinYun	but that's just because of the odd off-by-one behavior lol
05:43	DaoWen	AustinYun: I didn't actually try running it -- I just read the code :-p
05:43	AustinYun	i couldn't read the code so i had to run it lolol
05:43	AustinYun	also don't know what "update-in" does, except it seems to be a built-in
05:45	DaoWen	check the docs: http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/update-in
05:46	DaoWen	update-in is usually used for nested structures... in this case I think assoc would have worked just fine instead.
05:50	hyPiRion	Consider update-in as assocs within assocs.
05:50	hyPiRion	,(update-in {:a {:b 3}} [:a :b] 5)
05:50	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Long cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn>
05:50	hyPiRion	woo
05:51	hyPiRion	,(update-in {:a {:b 3}} [:a :b] + 5)
05:51	clojurebot	{:a {:b 8}}
05:51	nbeloglazov	,(assoc-in {:a {:b 3}} [:a :b] 5)
05:51	clojurebot	{:a {:b 5}}
05:55	jyc	just curious, where in the clojure documentation does it say that & makes a function with variable arguments?
05:56	AustinYun	in defn; it's not super explicit about it
05:56	DaoWen	http://clojure.org/special_forms#Special Forms--(let [bindings* ] exprs*)
05:56	DaoWen	ah--that shouldn't be split
05:57	jyc	cool, thanks!
05:57	DaoWen	member:jyc: that whole thing is a URL
05:57	nbeloglazov	Why doesn't clojurebot support javadoc function?
05:57	DaoWen	wow, my pasting is sucking.
05:57	jyc	DaoWen: yep, copied it over
05:57	jyc	will be fun to read through all of this, heh
05:57	DaoWen	jyc: search for "& followed by" on that page
05:57	clojure-newcomer	hey guys, anyone know how I can get the request uri using Noir ?
05:58	jyc	DaoWen: thanks again
05:58	AustinYun	wait, then what does the [params* ] mean?
05:59	DaoWen	AustinYun: that's grammer-speak
05:59	DaoWen	the * is a kleene-star
05:59	nbeloglazov	Also does clojurebot have command to show clojuredocs url for given function?
05:59	DaoWen	it just means "one or ore"
05:59	DaoWen	"one or more"
05:59	DaoWen	wow
06:00	DaoWen	no, it means "zero or more"
06:00	DaoWen	I'm going to leave now :-p
06:00	DaoWen	bye
06:00	AustinYun	ok so i was conflating the "zero or more" part with the part where you can specify positional parameters and a "rest" param
06:03	hyPiRion	Huh
06:04	hyPiRion	,(let [] (+ 1 2 3))
06:04	clojurebot	6
06:04	hyPiRion	Interesting.
06:07	AustinYun	,(let [] (inc))
06:07	clojurebot	#<CompilerException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (0) passed to: core$inc, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
06:07	AustinYun	<_<
06:07	hyPiRion	AustinYun: heh.
06:08	hyPiRion	,(let [])
06:08	clojurebot	nil
06:09	AustinYun	ah
06:09	AustinYun	actually that makes sense
06:10	AustinYun	since (let []) just defines a lexical scope for the expression afterward to run in, right?
06:10	hyPiRion	Yeah
06:10	hyPiRion	It's interesting that the lexical scope can be empty though, I didn't know that.
06:11	AustinYun	so (let [] expr) is just (expr) in a blank scope -- i guess if you had problems with namespace pollution or something it might be useful?
06:11	AustinYun	wonder if it'll automatically shadow other vars to be undefined
06:11	AustinYun	probably not, that makes no sense
06:11	hyPiRion	AustinYun: Nah, (let [] expr) is expr in a blank scope.
06:11	AustinYun	3:10 AM and i'm more of an idiot than usual
06:12	hyPiRion	I cannot see any reason for this to be useful, lol.
06:12	AustinYun	,(let []) is interesting though
06:12	clojurebot	nil
06:12	AustinYun	,()
06:12	clojurebot	()
06:12	AustinYun	hm
06:12	hyPiRion	oh, here's an interesting one
06:12	hyPiRion	,(= (class ()) (class '(1)))
06:12	clojurebot	false
06:12	AustinYun	,(class ())
06:12	clojurebot	clojure.lang.PersistentList$EmptyList
06:12	hyPiRion	,(class ())
06:12	clojurebot	clojure.lang.PersistentList$EmptyList
06:13	AustinYun	lol
06:13	hyPiRion	hehe
06:13	nbeloglazov	,(type ())
06:13	clojurebot	clojure.lang.PersistentList$EmptyList
06:13	AustinYun	ok so EmptyList is its own type
06:13	hyPiRion	I don't think () has any metadata.
06:13	hyPiRion	,(meta ())
06:13	clojurebot	nil
06:13	AustinYun	,(class '(1))
06:13	clojurebot	clojure.lang.PersistentList
06:14	hyPiRion	There are many strange things in Clojure.
06:14	hyPiRion	,(case 1 2)
06:14	clojurebot	2
06:14	AustinYun	,(and () true)
06:14	clojurebot	true
06:15	AustinYun	common lisp () is like the only false value right?
06:16	hyPiRion	yeah
06:16	hyPiRion	well, there's t and nil, which roughly translates to true and nil.
06:17	hyPiRion	Everything's true unless it's nil in Common lisp.
06:17	AustinYun	,(class [])
06:17	clojurebot	clojure.lang.PersistentVector
06:17	nbeloglazov	:)
06:17	AustinYun	not PersistentVector$EmptyVector huh
06:18	Toheii	, (= (class (list ())) (class '(1)))
06:18	clojurebot	true
06:18	AustinYun	,(class {})
06:18	clojurebot	clojure.lang.PersistentArrayMap
06:18	hyPiRion	(()) is a list with one element though.
06:18	hyPiRion	,(list ())
06:18	clojurebot	(())
06:18	hyPiRion	vs ##(list)
06:18	lazybot	⇒ ()
06:18	hyPiRion	,(class (list))
06:18	clojurebot	clojure.lang.PersistentList$EmptyList
06:19	AustinYun	yup
06:19	Toheii	You can only get the EmptyList type with (quote ()) or '() then right?
06:19	AustinYun	,(range 0)
06:19	clojurebot	()
06:19	AustinYun	,(class (range 0))
06:19	clojurebot	clojure.lang.LazySeq
06:19	AustinYun	<_< crap
06:21	AustinYun	,(class (pop (1)))
06:21	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Long cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn>
06:21	hyPiRion	,(let [id (memoize identity) alist (id (java.util.ArrayList.)) vect (id [])] (.add alist 1) vect)
06:21	clojurebot	#<ArrayList [1]>
06:21	AustinYun	...
06:21	AustinYun	,(class (pop '(1)))
06:21	clojurebot	clojure.lang.PersistentList$EmptyList
06:21	AustinYun	there we go
06:21	clgv	$javadoc java.util.Date
06:21	lazybot	http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/util/Date.html
06:22	clgv	nbeloglazov: ^^
06:22	clgv	$clojuredocs println
06:22	nbeloglazov	$javadoc Thread
06:22	lazybot	http://docs.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/java/lang/Thread.html
06:22	clgv	ok, thats not built-in
06:22	AustinYun	maybe
06:23	AustinYun	$clojuredoc println
06:23	nbeloglazov	clgv: thanks
06:25	Qerub	Is there a nicer substitute for the expression #(%1 %2)?
06:26	nbeloglazov	Qerub: try apply
06:26	hyPiRion	Qerub: Clojure has no funcall equivalent.
06:26	AustinYun	(fn [x y] (apply x y)) ? or something
06:27	nbeloglazov	(apply println 1)
06:27	nbeloglazov	,(apply println 1)
06:27	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: java.lang.Long>
06:27	hyPiRion	that'll crash
06:27	nbeloglazov	Yep
06:28	AustinYun	,(apply println '1)
06:28	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: java.lang.Long>
06:28	Bronsa	(deliver inc 1)
06:28	Bronsa	,(deliver inc 1)
06:28	clojurebot	2
06:28	AustinYun	,(apply println '(1))
06:28	clojurebot	1
06:28	hyPiRion	,(let [funcall (fn [f & args] (apply x args))] (funcall println 1))
06:28	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: x in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
06:28	Qerub	,(apply println 1 [])
06:28	clojurebot	1
06:28	hyPiRion	,(let [funcall (fn [f & args] (apply f args))] (funcall println 1))
06:28	clojurebot	1
06:29	AustinYun	difference between javascript call and apply
06:29	hyPiRion	Bronsa: How does that work? I though deliver took a promise, not a fn
06:30	nbeloglazov	,(doc deliver)
06:30	clojurebot	"([promise val]); Alpha - subject to change. Delivers the supplied value to the promise, releasing any pending derefs. A subsequent call to deliver on a promise will throw an exception."
06:31	hyPiRion	Oh man. That's just mean and dangerous.
06:31	hyPiRion	,(source deliver)
06:31	clojurebot	Source not found
06:31	nbeloglazov	source deliver
06:31	hyPiRion	It's basicall
06:31	hyPiRion	(defn deliver [promise val) (promise val))
06:32	clgv	hyPiRion: the `source` function needs access to the source files. probably the bot is aot compiled
06:32	clgv	$source deliver
06:32	lazybot	deliver is http://is.gd/mWYXsL
06:32	clgv	hmm that function seems to have an outdated database
06:32	Qerub	nbeloglazov, hyPiRion: I guess not then. Thanks for discussing!
06:32	AustinYun	,(deliver + 1 2 3)
06:32	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (4) passed to: core$deliver>
06:32	Qerub	Does this look crazy to you? (defn f [x] (condp #(%1 %2) x, number? do-something, symbol? do-something-else, …))
06:33	Qerub	I'd like to avoid the repetition in (cond (number? x) do-something, (symbol? x) do-something-else, …).
06:34	AustinYun	defmulti?
06:34	clojurebot	defmulti doc is python
06:34	AustinYun	O_o
06:34	hyPiRion	Qerub: Hmm, can you dispatch on type or class?
06:34	hyPiRion	(condp class x ...)
06:34	AustinYun	why is defmulti doc python
06:35	hyPiRion	AustinYun: I believe clojurebot is growing more and more sentient by each day. Bugs included.
06:35	Qerub	hyPiRion: I suppose i could use `instance?` (to cover inheritance).
06:36	AustinYun	anyway, it doesn't look THAT crazy, except you might want to make a multi-method that dispatches on the type of x
06:36	hyPiRion	Qerub: sounds good.
06:37	howard	If you are looking for a Clojure document database engine implementation, please check this out: Aurinko, a very compact yet powerful networked document database engine. https://github.com/HouzuoGuo/Aurinko
06:39	hyPiRion	Qerub: I haven't really dispatched that much on classes, but if it grows large, I'd use multimethods or protocols.
06:41	Qerub	hyPiRion: Yeah, I understand why. In this case with few branches and no need for extensibility a simple cond works well.
06:41	Qerub	hyPiRion: Thanks!
06:42	AustinYun	howard: interesting, you just release?
06:42	howard	it's a pet project i've been working on, to practice using Clojure
06:48	hyPiRion	howard: Interesting. A quick tips: For Github, it's better to have .md-files as doc
06:48	howard	thank you
06:48	howard	will do soon
06:48	howard	me still learning to use github :P
06:50	Cr8	I almost wrote something like this last week :D I might use this
06:50	hyPiRion	I haven't got enough time to look at the source AND understand it, but the specs look very nice for being 700 loc.
06:52	ro_st	btw, cljs <> clj remoting with fetch is ludicrously simple AND easy
06:52	ro_st	especially when using enfocus and pubsub to declaratively bind it all together
06:53	ro_st	the world is rewarding me for the hours of jquery + php ajax i haven't done -grin-
06:53	howard	im planning to give it a skip list index so it'll do range query much faster
06:54	Cr8	howard: what is it now, just a linear thing?
06:54	howard	it only has a hash index at the moment
06:54	Cr8	ah
06:54	Cr8	reminds me of bitcask
06:54	howard	hash lookup is very fast, as advertised, it easily does 6000+ lookups a second
06:55	howard	it supports range queries, however they're not optimized
06:55	howard	range queries need to scan collection, and that performance is about 160 milliseconds per 1k documents
06:56	Cr8	yeah, I saw that
06:56	howard	correct.. 80 milliseconds 1k documents
06:56	Cr8	hm, could you make a log structured skip list
06:57	Cr8	they always seemed more fit for an in-memory thing to me
06:57	howard	in-memory...?
06:57	Cr8	as opposed to on-disk
06:57	howard	you mean skip list suits in-memory db better?
06:58	Cr8	i mean skip lists themselves work better in memory
06:58	hyPiRion	I think he means having the skip list in memory.
06:58	howard	i see..
06:58	hyPiRion	zing.
06:58	Cr8	than being stored on disk
06:58	howard	um..
06:58	howard	my guess b+tree index will be 300+ lines of clojure
06:58	howard	skip list may be 200+
06:59	howard	^_^
06:59	Cr8	Ex: LevelDB uses skiplists for its in memory index for the current items in the batch to be written to disk, but on-disk it uses b-trees
06:59	howard	i see. thank you
06:59	howard	so btree index rather than skip list...
07:00	Cr8	for on-disk indexes, anyway, i think it is more workable
07:00	howard	:D
07:03	Cr8	but its all log structured which limits the types of data structures I can use on disk. you could probably do skip lists and the like more easily if you were okay with clobbering pointers in-place, but you risk corruption that way
07:03	howard	yeah...
07:04	Cr8	in the case of a write only being half done when something blows up
07:04	howard	i need to study how those dbs handle index write failure
07:04	wmealing_1	java.lang.IllegalStateException: -main already refers to: #'feedparser-clj.core/-main in namespace: blah.core
07:05	wmealing_1	as blah is my application, does that mean that feedparser-clj's main overrides mine (or trying to compete)
07:05	hyPiRion	wmealing_1: I suspect you use (:use feedparser-clj.core) or something
07:05	wmealing_1	should a library have a core ?
07:05	wmealing_1	yep
07:05	wmealing_1	i am
07:05	wmealing_1	rich is coming to brisbane next fri.. am definitely going to
07:05	wmealing_1	see him
07:06	hyPiRion	To not include the -main function in it, you can do (:use [feedparser-clj.core :exclude [-main]])
07:06	hyPiRion	I think that should solve your problem.
07:06	howard	brisbane :D
07:06	howard	im in melbourne
07:07	wmealing_1	howard: i'm sorry about the weather.
07:07	howard	me too
07:07	howard	hahahaha
07:07	howard	i caught cold last week
07:07	howard	many people did too
07:08	howard	(time (doseq [v (range 10000)]))
07:08	howard	,(time (doseq [v (range 10000)]))
07:08	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 119.989013 msecs"
07:08	howard	,(time (doseq [v (range 10000)]))
07:08	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 10.492108 msecs"
07:08	howard	,(time (doseq [v (range 10000)]))
07:08	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 10.695053 msecs"
07:09	hyPiRion	Let's see even more magic
07:09	howard	, (time (doseq [v (range 10000)] (read-string "{}")))
07:09	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 108.588635 msecs"
07:09	howard	, (time (doseq [v (range 10000)] (read-string "{}")))
07:09	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 21.022111 msecs"
07:09	howard	, (time (doseq [v (range 10000)] (read-string "{}")))
07:09	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 4.465608 msecs"
07:09	howard	, (time (doseq [v (range 10000)] (load-string "{}")))
07:09	clojurebot	#<Exception java.lang.Exception: SANBOX DENIED>
07:09	howard	boo
07:09	Cr8	hahaha
07:09	hyPiRion	,(time (doall (map inc (range 10000))))
07:09	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 38.136212 msecs"
07:09	clojurebot	(1 2 3 4 5 ...)
07:10	hyPiRion	,(time (map inc (range 10000)))
07:10	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 0.052606 msecs"
07:10	clojurebot	(1 2 3 4 5 ...)
07:10	Cr8	,(time (mapv inc (range 10000)))
07:10	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 47.154055 msecs"
07:10	clojurebot	[1 2 3 4 5 ...]
07:10	wmealing_1	howard: why dont you come to brisbane for it ?
07:10	howard	i wish i could..
07:11	howard	meh, i wish my company could pay for me to go to qld
07:11	howard	hahah
07:11	howard	what days is Rich gonna be in Brisbane?
07:12	wmealing_1	Friday, i think
07:12	wmealing_1	let me check
07:12	howard	yesterday, i put this project to public using name "ClojureDB", because it stores documents in clojure syntax, interacts with clients using clojure syntax
07:12	howard	then Rich told me to think of another name
07:13	howard	so I thought, Aurinko sounds good in English, and has good meaning in Finnish
07:13	hyPiRion	howard: You're Finnish?
07:14	howard	i wish i was
07:14	howard	nope :(
07:14	howard	i love northern European countries
07:14	howard	as much as I love Australia
07:14	Cr8	I suppose using "Clojure" in a project name is problematic
07:15	howard	yeah i agree... it was my bad
07:15	wmealing_1	ah
07:15	wmealing_1	howard: i'm incorrecet
07:15	wmealing_1	howard: http://www.bfpg.org/events/77110852/
07:16	howard	woow
07:16	howard	<3
07:17	wmealing_1	hyPiRion: thanks
07:18	howard	they should add "clojure" into "we're about"
07:22	howard	good night guys
07:52	[1]Abraham	how to use regular expr in clojurescript
07:58	ro_st	same way you do in clojure
07:58	ro_st	,(doc re-find)
07:58	clojurebot	"([m] [re s]); Returns the next regex match, if any, of string to pattern, using java.util.regex.Matcher.find(). Uses re-groups to return the groups."
07:59	ro_st	,(re-find #"\s+" "string with some stuff in it")
07:59	clojurebot	" "
07:59	ro_st	etc
08:07	nvy	,(doc def)
08:07	clojurebot	Gabh mo leithsc?al?
08:09	ro_st	oh….kay, then
08:15	hyPiRion	What in the world.
08:15	hyPiRion	,(doc def)
08:15	clojurebot	Pardon?
08:15	hyPiRion	,(doc str)
08:15	clojurebot	"([] [x] [x & ys]); With no args, returns the empty string. With one arg x, returns x.toString(). (str nil) returns the empty string. With more than one arg, returns the concatenation of the str values of the args."
08:15	hyPiRion	,(doc foobar)
08:15	clojurebot	Gabh mo leithsc?al?
08:16	ro_st	probably couldn't put a doc on def because you need def to do it
08:16	hyPiRion	I can doc my def though
08:16	ro_st	show-off :-)
08:16	hyPiRion	,(doc doc)
08:16	clojurebot	"([name]); Prints documentation for a var or special form given its name"
08:17	ro_st	&(doc def)
08:17	lazybot	java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! def is bad!
08:17	hyPiRion	I mean, there shouldn't be any issues with it :p
08:17	ro_st	-shrug-
08:18	hyPiRion	&(doc (symbol "def"))
08:18	lazybot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentList cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Symbol
08:52	cshell	is there any core function for generating n distinct random integers?
08:54	naeg	,(repeatedly 10 #(rand-int 50))
08:54	clojurebot	(7 23 27 15 47 ...)
08:55	naeg	cshell: where 10 is n (number of random numbers) and 50 is the range of those random numbers
08:55	cshell	right, but I can get collisions with that
08:55	naeg	oh, misunderstood you
08:55	cshell	thanks though :)
08:56	naeg	don't know about a distinct way, would probably write it based on this
08:56	cshell	that's what I was thinking
08:56	cshell	using a set or something
08:56	naeg	first thing that came to my mind too, but I'm farely new to clojure
08:57	cshell	yeah, me too
08:58	naeg	cshell: show me your solution please when you finished it, coming up with one too j4f
08:58	cshell	cool, no problem
09:01	clgv	cshell: well, build a random permutation and take the first n numbers
09:02	clgv	cshell: ##(->> (range 50) shuffle (take 10))
09:02	lazybot	⇒ (22 10 31 23 9 41 18 42 49 26)
09:02	cshell	nice, very clever!
09:03	cshell	thanks clgv!
09:03	naeg	clgv: isn't there a chance that this won't come up with 10 distinct random numbers?
09:03	clgv	but maybe not that efficient if the range is much larger than the count of numbers you select
09:04	clgv	naeg: nope
09:04	cshell	yeah, i'll have 150k items and i only want 4 of them :)
09:05	naeg	oh, I just understood shuffle now
09:05	cshell	maybe I just shuffle the collection and take 4?
09:05	clgv	cshell: then better do ##(->> (repeatedly #(rand-int 150000)) distinct (take 10))
09:05	lazybot	⇒ (102321 125971 111906 91551 73671 147131 132563 33939 67226 98262)
09:06	clgv	the probability for conflicts is pretty small for that ratio
09:06	clgv	so for k=10 this procedure will be almost O(k)
09:06	cshell	but with what you just pasted there won't be conflicts, because of distinct right?
09:07	Chousuke	clgv: with a true RNG it could run forever though :P
09:07	clgv	yes. but it could run long for bigger ratios of k/n
09:07	Fossi	yay, bogosort :>
09:07	cshell	got it
09:07	cshell	thanks clgv!
09:07	clgv	Chousuke: why should that happen?
09:07	Chousuke	clgv: you might get an infinite sequence of the same number
09:07	clgv	Chousuke: with probability zero? :P
09:08	clgv	*almost zero ;)
09:08	Chousuke	then again, you might also win the lottery every week from random dropped lottery tickets you find on the street
09:09	clgv	cshell: you can try both and see what works best for those numbers. 150k might be small enough for the shuffle
09:09	Phoshi	Hey, everyone. I'm trying to give clojure a shot, but I'm coming up with some issues uh, embarrasingly early. I can get a repl up and that's fine, but everything I'm looking at is like, "if you don't use lein you're going to die a horrible death" so I figured sure why not. Only problem is I flat out can't get it to work, it's just sitting there not doing anything. java starts and uses an impressive amount of RAM, but it just waits and hangs until I ki
09:10	clgv	#(->> (range 150000) shuffle (take 10) time)
09:10	clgv	lol or not ;)
09:10	clgv	ups
09:10	clgv	&(->> (range 150000) shuffle (take 10) time)
09:10	lazybot	⇒ "Elapsed time: 288.844763 msecs" (73580 109567 38332 56366 7726 100338 57580 82006 48682 114910)
09:10	clgv	looks not to bad. but that depends how fast you need it
09:10	clgv	##(->> (repeatedly #(rand-int 150000)) distinct (take 10) time)
09:10	lazybot	⇒ "Elapsed time: 263.035961 msecs" (1788 16291 138268 53065 111626 49964 110403 27401 8766 144423)
09:11	clgv	##(->> (repeatedly #(rand-int 150000)) distinct (take 10) time)
09:11	lazybot	⇒ "Elapsed time: 221.680642 msecs" (48531 47565 32250 21249 79697 92471 85817 20564 98392 38251)
09:11	Chousuke	hm, why is that so slow
09:12	clgv	probably, one should make a real benchmark
09:12	cshell	maybe it's slow cause it's generating 150k random numbers
09:13	cshell	or is it lazy?
09:13	clgv	yeah range, distinct and take are lazy
09:14	metajack	just generating random numbers without distinct takes about 170ms for me
09:14	cshell	but won't distinct for evaluation for all 150k random numbers?
09:14	metajack	oh sorry. misread that. 0.177 ms not 0.177 s.
09:14	cshell	or does it just wrap it lazily?
09:15	clgv	(time (dotimes [_ 100] (->> (range 150000) shuffle (take 10) doall))) => "Elapsed time: 2629.182387 msecs"
09:15	clgv	(time (dotimes [_ 100] (->> (repeatedly #(rand-int 150000)) distinct (take 10) doall))) => "Elapsed time: 16.077269 msecs"
09:16	cshell	interesting
09:16	cshell	this is a good discustsion.
09:17	metajack	distinct is lazy. it walks the sequence keeping a set of things it's seen and skipping anything it sees again
09:17	clgv	cshell: if you make k bigger relative to n the second will get slower
09:17	cshell	makes sense
09:18	clgv	at 50% you get with (time (dotimes [_ 100] (->> (repeatedly #(rand-int 150000)) distinct (take 75000) doall))) => "Elapsed time: 13357.610222 msecs"
09:19	magopian	guys, what does it mean when an integer has a appended N
09:19	magopian	like 1N
09:19	magopian	does it make it a long?
09:20	clgv	bigint afaik
09:20	clgv	&(type 1N)
09:20	lazybot	⇒ clojure.lang.BigInt
09:21	magopian	oh ok
09:21	magopian	and is there a way to coerce function parameters to BigInt ?
09:21	magopian	oh, bigint ;)
09:25	clgv	magopian: you might skipt coercing but using +' which autopromotes to BigInt if it would overflow otherwise ##(doc +')
09:25	lazybot	⇒ "([] [x] [x y] [x y & more]); Returns the sum of nums. (+) returns 0. Supports arbitrary precision. See also: +"
09:26	magopian	clgv: thanks a lot !
09:26	magopian	i'll dig into that
09:26	clgv	see ##(+ Long/MAX_VALUE +1)
09:26	lazybot	java.lang.ArithmeticException: integer overflow
09:26	clgv	and ##(+' Long/MAX_VALUE 1)
09:26	lazybot	⇒ 9223372036854775808N
09:27	wmealing_1	can someone suggest a library to strip all html formatting from a html string, i kind of just want the raw text, not the escaped data
09:28	metajack	wmealing_: I use enlive for that.
09:29	wmealing_1	what part of enlive ?
09:29	metajack	there's a function called texts which does it
09:29	wmealing_1	thanks, will look into it
09:30	metajack	something like (->> s (StringReader.) html/html-resource html/texts (apply str))
09:51	wmealing_1	that looks not too bad
10:13	ro_st	ohpauleez :-) -remote requires -browser which tries to use localStorage. if you update -browser to first check for localStorage before using it, it should be goo
10:13	ro_st	good*
10:14	ohpauleez	browser was updated not to use local storage - https://github.com/shoreleave/shoreleave-browser/commit/cf3350b598625c35cbf7ecbaddb67c146e3a6cf3
10:15	ohpauleez	that's why I wanted to see the exception you were getting
10:15	ohpauleez	if I missed a line somewhere or if you had a stale jar
10:17	ro_st	comin' up
10:19	ro_st	oh that's not fair! now it seems to be working :-\|
10:21	ro_st	ok. i'm a narna. it's compiling and running now
10:23	wmealing_1	happens ot the best of us
10:23	ohpauleez	ro_st: Cool, totally keep me posted and then update the ticket however you need to. I promise you fast turn around :)
10:23	ohpauleez	beat me to it! Thanks!
10:24	ro_st	ok. so i'm not using noir. i've already converted fetch's noir backend to not use noir, but i see you use a namespace loader for your noir remote backend as well
10:25	ohpauleez	yeah - lynaghk also suggested I make it non-noir specific. If you send me some patches I'll do my yes to integrate them and refactor out noir
10:25	ro_st	well, i switched to compojure for the routing part :-)
10:25	ro_st	paste inbound
10:25	ohpauleez	Shoreleave is extremely opinionated
10:25	ohpauleez	cool, thanks!
10:26	ohpauleez	(not because I think it should be, but because it was built around real projects)
10:26	ro_st	i'm down with that, it's just that the api for the js app is focussed on just doing that, so i don't need a whole web framework
10:26	ohpauleez	totally
10:27	ro_st	https://www.refheap.com/paste/4314
10:27	ro_st	so, i can get this far converting sl-r's backend, but i'm not sure about the NS loading
10:28	ro_st	it might make sense to provide access to remotes as a ring middleware instead of as an app handler?
10:28	treehug	how would i approach the problem of getting swank to display repl return values in formats other than text? i do a lot of image processing in clojure and would like for example, an image to be displayed rather than #<PlanarImage ….>
10:29	ohpauleez	Ahh, right, these changes are easier. Creating the ns loading isn't that hard, I just have to re-create a single noir function
10:29	ohpauleez	ro_st: That was Kevin's idea as well, remotes as middleware
10:30	ro_st	ah i see
10:30	ohpauleez	I think in the long run, that's the way to go, but I don't know how I'd port all the pieces to work there yet (something I need to sit and think about for a little bit)
10:31	ro_st	ok, i'm going to reimplement your noir backend in my own namespace, stealing load-views-ns from noir
10:31	ohpauleez	cool, that should work for now. I'll work on a middleware replacement for 0.2.2 release
10:31	ro_st	nice
10:32	ohpauleez	awesome, thanks a ton!
10:32	ro_st	i'm reallllly enjoying enfocus+pubsub+remotes. so declarative
10:32	ohpauleez	extremely declarative. I'm also a big fan of that combo
10:32	ohpauleez	You can hook something up SO fast
10:32	pandeiro	ro_st: ohpauleez: anywhere i can see an example of that?
10:33	pandeiro	i haven't played with enfocus since it was in the earliest stages
10:33	pandeiro	and i am just looking at shoreleave now
10:33	ohpauleez	pandeiro: There's an unfinished demo. If you take the path of ro_st You have to suffer through it :) https://github.com/shoreleave/demo-shoreleave-solr
10:34	ro_st	i actually think you'd be better served not working with the demo. no offence, ohpauleez :-)
10:34	ohpauleez	absolutely none taken :)
10:35	ro_st	heck, let me make one. gimme 10
10:35	ohpauleez	behold the power of an open and capable community!
10:35	pandeiro	ohpauleez: hear hear!
10:35	pandeiro	ro_st: cheers, would love to have a gander
10:37	ohpauleez	pandeiro: between using client only request (either CORS or JSONP), Clojure as a data format to do http-rpc, a capable pubsub system, and a nice way to handle the dom - CLJS is the killer app
10:38	ohpauleez	Shoreleave has the added bonus that I've done most of the grunt work for you (security, cookies, history, etc)
10:38	ohpauleez	but it has not been officially announced because it's not officially done :)
10:39	ro_st	i'll add cljsbuild crossovers and show both the cljs app and the backend remote using fns in the same ns
10:40	ohpauleez	ro_st: Also, if this is true, all of Shoreleave's busses will be faster: https://gist.github.com/3335154
10:43	ro_st	is it done, yet ? :-D
10:44	ohpauleez	ro_st: haha
10:47	nvy	dude wat
10:47	scriptor	just a net split
10:48	bja	oudsearch
10:48	nvy	all right
10:48	pandeiro	ro_st: ohpauleez: awesome, very exciting stuff. b/c i am mostly targeting chromium, i end up writing a lot of small wrappers over the HTML5 API. but something more robust would be welcome for sure. then there is the state machine/reactive programming/mvc/insert-paradigm-here question of how to organize UI event code...
10:49	ohpauleez	pandeiro: There are a lot of opinions about the reactive stuff
10:51	ro_st	i still need to learn concepts behind the reactive stuff
10:51	ohpauleez	Personally I think you can cover almost all the real practical ground with enfocus+pubsub. If you need something like computed observables, lynaghk's relax is awesome: https://github.com/lynaghk/reflex
10:52	pandeiro	pubsub is just fine-grained event listeners/handlers, yes?
10:52	ohpauleez	Yeah, it's an event system, but it lets you declare full flows
10:52	ohpauleez	you can subscribe a function to a dom event, and functions can subscribe to other functions
10:53	ohpauleez	atoms can participate too
10:53	pandeiro	nice
10:53	ohpauleez	and you can broadcast using strings, ints, or keywords
10:54	pandeiro	so a simple data-binding flow would be retrieve data=>store in atom=>update dom=>onchange event=>update atom=>update server ?
10:54	pandeiro	that could be done declaratively?
10:55	ohpauleez	You can do whatever you want. Typically the entrance for me is a dom event. Along the way I might hit a remote sever, and then end of my flow is usually a dom update
10:55	ohpauleez	but yes, you bind it declaratively
10:55	ohpauleez	you write functions like you normally would
10:55	ohpauleez	then all data flow and binding is done by the bus, you just have to plug it together
10:56	clgv	ohpauleez: trying your demo app^^
10:56	ohpauleez	clgv: It doesn't do anything, it's not done yet. But you can use it as a reference for how to use pieces of Shoreleave
10:56	ohpauleez	as ro_st said, it's not a good example haha
10:57	clgv	oh damn. have to do this in a month again then ;)
10:57	ro_st	gimme 10 more
10:57	ohpauleez	I really need to finish some stuff up, cut the 0.2.2 release, and announce it on the mailing list
10:57	ohpauleez	ro_st: You're the man! Excited to see it (clgv ^^)
10:58	dnolen	fun core.logic post http://dosync.posterous.com/know-your-bounds
10:58	clgv	ohpauleez: well seems to do some user interaction at least ^^
11:00	ohpauleez	dnolen: That's awesome. I read the reference post this morning. Great follow-up
11:00	ohpauleez	also nice to see bounded-listo added
11:03	clgv	I still dont like the "o" suffix - is there no better naming choice?
11:04	clojure-newcomer	hey guys, I want to organise my cljs app a bit, I don't want everything in main.cljs I want other cljs files made available too, any best practice I can follow ?
11:04	ohpauleez	clojure-newcomer: whatever works best for your app
11:04	clojure-newcomer	right now when I try to bind anything outside of main.cljs in my cljs-binding template it screws up
11:04	ohpauleez	use main.cljs to tie it all together and set on-load stuff
11:05	VickyIyer	Hello All (zipmap [:x :y :z] (repeatedly (partial rand-int 10))) can someone explain the function call to partial as I am unable to understand it?
11:05	clojure-newcomer	ohpauleez: should I be using require or use to grab stuff from other cljs files ?
11:05	clojure-newcomer	unsure why my cljs-binding template can only find stuff in main.cljs
11:06	ohpauleez	clojure-newcomer: Sometimes I use render.cljs for all the functions that render something in the dom. I typically avoid "model.cljs" and instead name them the first class category of the data they're responsible for holding and offering a data abstraction layer (DAL) for
11:06	hyPiRion	VickyIyer: (partial rand-int 10) returns a function which takes in any amount of arguments, and adds them as the tail.
11:06	ohpauleez	clojure-newcomer: Always prefer require to use
11:06	hyPiRion	When called with no arguments, it will be the same as doing (rand-int 10)
11:07	clojure-newcomer	ohpauleez: thanks, I will
11:07	scriptor	VickyIyer: in this case, repeatedly takes a function without arguments
11:07	ohpauleez	clgv: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9164051/why-do-minikanren-names-always-end-with-o?rq=1
11:07	scriptor	if you just pass it (rand-int 10) that won't work, because that won't return a function
11:07	clojure-newcomer	it seems use needs me to be explicit about every element in an ns, which is painful
11:07	VickyIyer	(zipmap [:x :y :z] (repeatedly (partial rand-int 10))) question is why this doe snot work (zipmap [:x :y :z] (repeatedly (rand-int 10)))
11:07	scriptor	VickyIyer: calling (partial rand-int 10) returns a function which calls (rand-int 10) every time
11:08	hyPiRion	Basically, (partial rand-int 10) is the same as (fn [] (rand-int 10)), or #(rand-int 10) for short.
11:08	scriptor	VickyIyer: just mentioned it above, repeatedly takes a function
11:08	VickyIyer	ok got it now thanks for the explanation
11:08	scriptor	VickyIyer: (rand-int 10) does not return a function, but by wrapping it in partial it conveniently becomes a function
11:09	casion	why cant you just do (zipmap [:x :y :z] (repeatedly #(rand-int 10)))
11:09	casion	why is partial necessary?
11:09	VickyIyer	that is really cool, I have not seen this in language I have worked in
11:10	clgv	ohpauleez: then I vote for "-o" or "_o" - that latter is subscript in latex insted of superscript ;)
11:11	ohpauleez	clgv: Or we could modify our editors and any function that ends in o gets printed as a superscript
11:11	clgv	ohpauleez: humm, why not bla° ?
11:11	ohpauleez	clgv: you could do that, since Java is utf16
11:12	ohpauleez	but you'd need to have (def bla° blao)
11:12	clgv	ohpauleez: but sadly all the builtin stuff has the "o" suffix.
11:12	ohpauleez	it's like coffee, tea, and beer
11:12	ohpauleez	the first time you have it, you think, "This is stupid, it's so bitter. I'm never going to drink this again"
11:12	ohpauleez	but you drink it three, four… five times more
11:13	scriptor	casion: might've just been someone's personal preference
11:13	ohpauleez	and bam, you start enjoying oit
11:13	ohpauleez	it
11:13	casion	ohpauleez: nah, some people always hate it
11:13	clgv	it really reads strange "all-connected-to-allo". probably a good name but why should all be connected to allo? ;)
11:13	casion	Scriptor: seems strange to me, I'd imagine #() would be far more readable and obvious
11:13	casion	and silghtly faster?
11:14	ohpauleez	casion: My example is indeed leaky (no pun intended)
11:16	scriptor	casion: huh, it's apparently in the clojure book
11:16	scriptor	http://books.google.com/books?id=nZTvSa4KqfQC&pg=PA34&lpg=PA34&dq=(zipmap+%5B:x+:y+:z%5D+(repeatedly+(partial+rand-int+10)))&source=bl&ots=0V-nGO3Qtd&sig=0-K6I38Jd4yuUuekDA3P9dzB77w&hl=en&sa=X&ei=xBkpUN6kDZS36QGq3oHQBg&ved=0CFwQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=(zipmap%20%5B%3Ax%20%3Ay%20%3Az%5D%20(repeatedly%20(partial%20rand-int%2010)))&f=false
11:17	casion	Scriptor: how odd, I learned that #() would make more sense from that book lol
11:18	ohpauleez	this question came up a few days ago too
11:18	ohpauleez	now I know where it's coming from
11:18	ohpauleez	haha
11:19	scriptor	cemerick: any reason why partial is preferred instead of #() in this? (zipmap [:x :y :z] (repeatedly #(rand-int 10))) (page 34 from yo' book)
11:19	ohpauleez	someone was on a partial kick, the only reason
11:19	casion	ohpauleez: I have all sorts of notes on my kindle amounting to 'ask cemerick why it's this instead of this after you've finished the book'
11:19	ohpauleez	(completely a guess, no data to support that)
11:20	casion	117 notes lol
11:20	casion	I'm assuming I'll figure most of them out on my own
11:20	scriptor	yea, depending on your background I guess some people prefer more alphanumeric characters
11:20	ohpauleez	but I find I do that more in clojure than in any other language - I start using some idiom, then accidentally use it where something else is more appropriate
11:20	ohpauleez	or more concise or more readable
11:21	casion	I'd still think that even (fn [] (rand-int 10)) would be more readable
11:21	scriptor	casion: I agree, it's basically a thunk
11:21	ohpauleez	#(rand-int 10) for me personally
11:21	ohpauleez	but really only in the case where I'm using a hof
11:22	casion	I prefer #() as well
11:22	casion	when I see partial, I assume there's other args coming in somewhere
11:22	scriptor	exactly
11:22	ohpauleez	same
11:23	maacl	I am trying to fix a broken method in a Java lib using proxy, but I need access to a protected field to do it. Is this possible?
11:23	nbeloglazov	Frustrating think with partial (for me) is that it's too long. It's shorter to use #( ).
11:23	ro_st	ohpauleez: the remote macro is expanding to the wrong namespace for some reason
11:23	casion	the partial bit isn't listed in the errata
11:23	ckirkendall	ro_st: I pushed out alpha2 of enfocus. I would love if you could give it a spin.
11:23	ohpauleez	ro_st: There's a .client. in there?
11:23	ro_st	yes!
11:24	ro_st	ckirkendall: oooh, what's new?
11:24	ohpauleez	ckirkendall: I will also do the same on all of my apps
11:24	ro_st	ckirkendall: i'm busy whacking together an example of enfocus and shoreleave's pubsub and remotes right now
11:24	ckirkendall	ro_st: not much from the snapshot.
11:24	ohpauleez	ro_st: I think that's an old jar problem too, but let me check
11:24	ckirkendall	ro_st: sweet!
11:26	ohpauleez	ro_st: An old jar - https://github.com/shoreleave/shoreleave-remote/commit/572265c85aaf0aea591724ff59d3c07087120c68
11:28	ohpauleez	ro_st: I redeployed the jar just to be safe
11:28	ro_st	a deps run should fix it?
11:28	ro_st	what version of remotes?
11:28	ro_st	0.2.1 or 0.2.2-SNAPSHOT?
11:28	clgv	is that safe to use ##:keyword.with.dots
11:28	ohpauleez	0.2.2-SNAPSHOT
11:28	clgv	,:keyword.with.dots
11:28	clojurebot	:keyword.with.dots
11:29	ro_st	so close
11:29	ro_st	build build build!
11:29	ohpauleez	,:you(can)also.do-this
11:29	clojurebot	:you
11:29	ohpauleez	whoa, fixed?
11:29	ro_st	i was on 0.2.1
11:30	ohpauleez	ro_st: I seriously can't thank you enough for pulling something together
11:30	ohpauleez	and working through all the pains of sl
11:31	nbeloglazov	maacl: did you try (. this fieldName) inside proxy method?
11:31	ro_st	weird. getting a npe in goog.string.urlDecode deep inside the csrf stuff
11:32	ro_st	my pleasure. this is fun
11:32	clgv	&:keyword.with.dots
11:32	lazybot	⇒ :keyword.with.dots
11:32	hyPiRion	Even better is probably the %-symbol
11:32	maacl	nbeloglazov: Nope, but I will now
11:32	ohpauleez	ro_st: Weird, I've never seen that. Is this with or without CSRF middleware?
11:32	hyPiRion	,'(:%%name)
11:32	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: Invalid token: :>
11:33	ro_st	both
11:33	dgrnbrg	Hello clojurians! I have some leiningen profile information (that includes an unquote-spliced bit of code) that I want to have included in every leiningen project for my team. Is there a way to specify a plugin-dependency and have it always modify the project.clj before running?
11:33	dgrnbrg	Or do I need to say something like "lein with-my-stuff task args" and make a with-my-stuff plugin?
11:34	clojure-newcomer	hmmm, using a mix of noir-cljs, cljs-binding… my cljs-binding template can only bind to stuff in main.cljs, unsure how to split out functionality to other cljs files and still have the html elements bind successfully, any ideas ?
11:35	nDuff	dgrnbrg: Hrm. If you don't get a response here, you might try #leiningen
11:35	ro_st	clojure-newcomer: stay posted. got some nice sample code on the way
11:36	dgrnbrg	nDuff: thanks
11:36	clojure-newcomer	ro-st: a fellow cljs-binding user ?
11:36	ro_st	naw. a demo of enfocus, shoreleave-pubsub and shoreleave-remote and clsbuild's crossovers
11:37	clojure-newcomer	ro_st: are you suggesting it all be so awesome I will just want to use that instead ? :-)
11:37	ro_st	i might be
11:37	ro_st	-grin-
11:37	ckirkendall	:)
11:37	clojure-newcomer	ro_st: god knows I need something to make me more productive :-( really struggling with this
11:38	clojure-newcomer	is there an eta ? :-)
11:38	gtrak	weavejester: in lein-ring uberwar it seems like you shouldn't need to specify a ring-handler if you're using a premade web.xml, yes? If I leave it out I get a nullpointer exception.
11:38	ro_st	as soon as i get past a null bug
11:38	ckirkendall	clojure-newcomer: what exactly are you strugling with
11:39	clojure-newcomer	ckirkendall: my cljs-binding template (html in this case) will only successfully bind with elements defined in main.cljs
11:39	clojure-newcomer	it seems I am unable to split functionality out to separate files and still bind
11:39	clojure-newcomer	even if I reference by namespace in my template
11:39	clojure-newcomer	I think there is magic going on under the hood which I don't understand
11:40	clojure-newcomer	probably noir-cljs governing the magic
11:41	weavejester	gtrak: That's probably right… it's likely a bug. Custom web.xml files are quite rare.
11:42	gtrak	yea... I'm doing some wacky stuff
11:44	ckirkendall	clojure-newcomer: I am not familure with cljs-bindings, but if you are looking for a very simple app that handles similar stuff check this out: https://github.com/ckirkendall/The-Great-Todo
11:45	clojure-newcomer	ckirkendall: will do, thanks for the pointer
11:45	ro_st	weavejester! thank you for compojure.
11:45	ckirkendall	its a very simple app that uses fetch and noir in backend and enfocus on the front
11:45	weavejester	ro_st: You're welcome :)
11:45	nbeloglazov	Where do static resources (css, js, images) go in ring applications? To the root of *.war file or inside WEB-INF/classes so they can be retrieved by .findResource method?
11:46	weavejester	nbeloglazov: Lein-Ring puts them in WEB-INF/classes so that they can be referenced by clojure.java.io/resource etc.
11:47	weavejester	nbeloglazov: It's not ideal, but it's better than having two places for resources
11:48	nbeloglazov	weavejester: thank you
12:08	ro_st	not working right now, but it's still worth reading the code: https://github.com/robert-stuttaford/demo-enfocus-pubsub-remote/
12:09	ro_st	if anyone is keen, i'm wide open to Issues and pull requests and whatnot
12:09	ro_st	be nice to have a go-to boilerplate for new folks interested in clj+cljs apps
12:10	ckirkendall	ro_st: will take a look
12:10	ro_st	nice :-)
12:10	ro_st	gotta go. meatspace calls
12:13	clojure-newcomer	ro_st: nice one
12:14	clojure-newcomer	will have a look soon as I make some progress with this :-)
12:17	cemerick	casion, Scriptor: as you suspected, totally a personal readability preference
12:30	technomancy	dgrnbrg: project middleware can give you what you're looking for
12:31	technomancy	dgrnbrg: right now you'd have to specify the middleware in each project, but there's an open issue for that: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/issues/401
12:32	clojure-newcomer	hmm, in using cljs-binding and noir-cljs I'm getting 'Uncaught ReferenceError: binding is not defined my app.client.somens.myfunc' when I put the function in some.cljs…. but it works when I put it in main.cljs… any ideas ? I can confirm some.cljs is being merged into bootstrap.js
12:45	ckirkendall	clojure-newcomer: can you put together a gist of main and some.
12:56	clojure-newcomer	ckirkendall: here is the link: http://pastebin.com/wLXtScRu
12:57	clojure-newcomer	ckirkendall: you know going through this exercise has made me realise, I have no 'use' or 'require' in my app.client.somens… so probably some automatic binding stuff is not happening...
12:59	clojure-newcomer	ckirkendall: haha, that was the problem
13:00	ckirkendall	:)
13:00	clojure-newcomer	ckirkendall: thanks for making me step through the problem, had a 3 in the morning coding session and guess I am more stupid than normal because of it
13:00	ckirkendall	clojure-newcomer: at 3 in the morning everyone is.
13:01	clojure-newcomer	ckirkendall: right better go make up for hours of lost productivity now cya
13:29	brainproxy	in a macro I need to so something like ... #'templates/~template
13:29	brainproxy	but that's not the right way to put #'templates/ and ~template togethre
13:29	cgray	technomancy: I've almost got my lein plugin working (based off of lein-scalac), but when I do "lein help", it complains that the equivalent of scala.tools.ant.Scalac isn't found...
13:30	ckirkendall	brainproxy: ~(symbol (str "templates/" (name templates)))
13:31	raek	,(namespace (str "templates/" "foo"))
13:31	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Named>
13:31	raek	,(namespace (symbol (str "templates/" "foo")))
13:31	clojurebot	"templates"
13:31	brainproxy	ckirkendall: thanks
13:31	raek	huh, I didn't know that the symbol function parsed its argument
13:32	raek	I would write (symbol "templates" "foo")
13:32	raek	,(namespace (symbol "templates" "foo"))
13:32	clojurebot	"templates"
13:32	ckirkendall	,(name (symbol "templates" "foo"))
13:32	clojurebot	"foo"
13:33	abev	how to regular expr in cljs
13:33	ckirkendall	,(namespace (symbol "templates" "foo"))
13:33	clojurebot	"templates"
13:33	ckirkendall	raek: nice
13:36	abev	detailed documentation for clojurescript where it is available?
13:58	loliveira	could somebody help me with enlive?
13:59	emezeske	~anyone
13:59	clojurebot	Just a heads up, you're more likely to get some help if you ask the question you really want the answer to, instead of "does anyone ..."
13:59	loliveira	ok
14:07	ckirkendall	loliveira: what issue are you struggling with.
14:09	loliveira	i'm trying to get the same selector result in enlive as i'm geting using jquery selector. Using jquery, I can obtain all children but using envile no children are selected. link to url and query: https://gist.github.com/3342793
14:15	loliveira	ckirkendall: i'am getting different results from enlive and jquery.
14:20	ckirkendall	loliveira: can you give me the selector
14:20	arrdem	is there a function for getting the entire inheritance tree for an object?
14:20	Qerub	,(supers String)
14:21	clojurebot	#{java.lang.Object java.lang.CharSequence java.lang.Comparable java.io.Serializable}
14:21	amalloy	&(ancestors java.util.ArrayList)
14:21	lazybot	⇒ #{java.lang.Cloneable java.util.AbstractCollection java.lang.Object java.io.Serializable java.util.Collection java.lang.Iterable java.util.RandomAccess java.util.AbstractList java.util.List}
14:21	ckirkendall	loliveira: sorry just saw the gist
14:21	ckirkendall	it seems jquery is wrong in this case
14:21	ckirkendall	you are refrencing and id so not sure how it could return more than one object.
14:22	hiredman	I imagine jquery returns a single object, with some kind of .each that walks over the children
14:23	ckirkendall	hiredman: that would make sense
14:23	hiredman	and it would explain the confusion
14:23	arrdem	amalloy Qerub: ancestors supports (derive) while supers is just Java inheritance?
14:24	amalloy	well yes, but also ancestors returns interfaces
14:24	ckirkendall	loliveira: can you post the html you are trying to match
14:25	Gnosis-	how can I use UTF-8 for converting between bytes sequences and character sequences?
14:25	arrdem	amalloy: thanks
14:28	loliveira	ckirkendall: http://www.correiobraziliense.com.br/app/noticia/brasil/2012/08/13/interna_brasil,316708/governo-vai-se-antecipar-aos-desastres-naturais-diz-presidente.shtml
14:29	chouser	Gnosis-: & (String. (.getBytes "Hello" "UTF-8") "UTF-8")
14:29	chouser	,(String. (.getBytes "Hello" "UTF-8") "UTF-8")
14:29	clojurebot	"Hello"
14:30	loliveira	ckirkendall: do you know what do i have to do to get span#items_noticias's children?
14:30	Gnosis-	chouser: thanks! so does .getBytes return a byte array?
14:31	S11001001	Gnosis-: what dev environment are you using?
14:32	Gnosis-	jvm
14:35	ckirkendall	#items_noticias > *
14:36	S11001001	Gnosis-: on top of that
14:36	ckirkendall	loliveira: you don't need the span because the id is unique
14:38	loliveira	ckirkendall: didn't work: (enlive/select content [:div.column00 :span#items_noticia :> :*])))
14:40	scriptor	ckirkendall: a lot of browsers don't enforce the uniqueness
14:41	loliveira	didn't work too: (enlive/select content [:div.column00 :#items_noticia :> :*])))
14:57	Gnosis-	S11001001: on top of the jvm? I use a repl!
14:57	DaoWen	what exactly does vec do?
14:57	DaoWen	I thought it would be a no-op if you passed it a vector (just passing it back), but it doesn't look like that's the case
14:58	S11001001	vec makes clojure.core hilarious
14:58	xeqi	&(doc vec)
14:58	lazybot	⇒ "([coll]); Creates a new vector containing the contents of coll."
14:58	amalloy	S11001001: ?
14:58	DaoWen	it looks like it takes a collection, turns it into an array, and then lazily turns that array into a vector
14:59	amalloy	DaoWen: no, it copies to a new vector. kinda weird, but there's at least a justification, if not a reason
14:59	DaoWen	(that's what I got out of the source listing—but it was making a lot of Java calls so I'm not sure)
14:59	S11001001	,(let [o (to-array [1,2,3]) v (vec o)] [(seq v) (do (aset o 0 42) (seq v))])
14:59	clojurebot	[(42 2 3) (42 2 3)]
14:59	amalloy	oh ouch
15:00	Cr8	oh what
15:00	Cr8	the vector is backed by the array?
15:00	DaoWen	what just happened?
15:00	S11001001	I think next release will have docstring update to mention this
15:00	ckirkendall	loliveira: take the :* off the end
15:00	S11001001	Cr8: truth
15:00	Cr8	gnarly
15:00	ckirkendall	if enlive implemented the selector syntax correctly :> means children
15:01	Gnosis-	S11001001: it doesn't seem like to-array can handle types other than Object...
15:01	ckirkendall	If not it is probably a bug
15:01	S11001001	Gnosis-: there are other funs for that
15:01	DaoWen	I think The Joy of Clojure mentioned that, but in the context of seq, not vec
15:02	DaoWen	it makes sense for seq, but that's a bit weird since vec is supposed to return a copy...
15:03	S11001001	actually the difference is that the seq case is referentially transparent with respect to accesses to the seq itself
15:03	ckirkendall	loliveira: also on the uniqueness becareful because many browsers if two items with the same id exist you cannot select on that id at all.
15:03	DaoWen	amalloy: what was the justification you were talking about? (or did you already mention it and I missed it?)
15:03	S11001001	either the 3rd element of a seq will be 42 or it will be 84, or whatever, but it won't change
15:04	amalloy	DaoWen: (subvec some-huge-vector 0 1) creates a one-element vector that holds a pointer to the whole huge one, preventing gc. (vec the-subvec) copies just those elements into a new vector, letting the big one get GCed
15:04	amalloy	so you can imagine wanting this behavior from vec, although in most cases you don't
15:06	loliveira	ckirkendal: i removed and got the folloing exception: 2012-08-13 16:03:01,869 TRACE crawler.db: load-crawler - migration loaded: {:clj nil, :cron_expression "0/5 * * * * ?", :table_name "correiobraziliense.rss_politica"}
15:06	loliveira	2012-08-13 16:03:01,869 TRACE crawler.migrations: loading namespace: crawler.models.crawlers.correiobraziliense.rss_politica from fs
15:06	loliveira	((Exception in thread "main" java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Long cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn
15:06	DaoWen	amalloy: that makes sense. you need to have a way to clean up after subvec.
15:06	amalloy	DaoWen: yes, but you already have one anyway: (vec (seq the-subvec))
15:07	DaoWen	good point.
15:07	DaoWen	so, it's kind of pointless then?
15:07	amalloy	so, i dunno. in summary: vec is kinda silly
15:07	loliveira	ckirkendall: i will report it as a bug. thanks soo much.
15:07	amalloy	some of the code in there is definitely very old, and probably from rich's original draft ideas - not everything was brilliant
15:08	technomancy	amalloy: heresy!
15:09	ckirkendall	loliveira: try this: #id :> (any-node)
15:09	DaoWen	ok, thanks for the explanation
15:09	ckirkendall	loliveira: enlive syntax requires a selector after the :>
15:10	technomancy	PSA: .substring is subject to the same memory leak issues as subvec
15:10	technomancy	so watch out
15:10	amalloy	technomancy: maybe rich's ideas were in fact all brilliant, but occasionally his evil twin with a goatee snuck in and coded something
15:11	pjstadig	technomancy: huh?
15:11	pjstadig	.substring says it return a 'new' string
15:11	amalloy	pjstadig: it does, backed by the old array
15:11	pjstadig	but maybe that's just playing with terms
15:13	ckirkendall	loliveira: sorry its not any-node its just (any)
15:14	kenneth	hey there -- is there a way to get the path to the project root with clojure / lein?
15:14	technomancy	kenneth: from what context?
15:14	technomancy	like in a plugin or in the project code itself?
15:14	kenneth	in the code itself
15:15	technomancy	kenneth: if the code is launched by Leiningen itself then (System/getProperty "user.dir") will do the trick
15:15	technomancy	but that might not work from an IDE, even one that supports Leiningen
15:16	technomancy	in general relying on that kind of thing is mildly sketchy as it's an implementation detail, and it's good practice to write code that works the same whether it's running from leiningen or an uberjar.
15:21	arrdem	does Clojure have a good "dispatch on keyword" function or do I need to go dig out the dlambda macro?
15:21	technomancy	(comp :mykey first list)
15:21	ro_st	ohpauleez: here for a minute. any luck?
15:21	ohpauleez	I am
15:21	technomancy	assuming you want a keyword from the first arg, which is a map
15:21	ohpauleez	ro_st: ^
15:21	ro_st	-curious-
15:22	loliveira	ckirkendall: i tried (enlive/select content [:#items_noticia :> enlive/any]))) and it returned ()
15:22	antares_	arrdem: what you are looking for is multimethods
15:23	loliveira	ckirkendall: (enlive/select content [:#items_noticia :> enlive/any-node]))) returned ("\n ")
15:23	arrdem	antares_: really? defmulti's the best choice here? meh...
15:23	antares_	arrdem: how exactly is it meh?
15:24	loliveira	ckirkendall: i can't call any-node (any-node) or any (any) they aren't functions.
15:24	amalloy	it sounds like arrdem probably wants a lambda that acts like an object, dispatching on its first arg as a "message"?
15:24	antares_	arrdem: it will dispatch on any function you want. Use keywords equality or even keywords as functions. What else do you need?
15:24	arrdem	just more verbose than I feel is required. nothing wrong with it ho.
15:24	amalloy	i wouldn't recommend a defmulti for a lambda-like thing
15:24	arrdem	*tho
15:24	amalloy	(though, in generally, i wouldn't recommend using a lambda to fake an object either)
15:24	arrdem	yeah. what amalloy said.
15:24	technomancy	defmulti complects def and multi =(
15:25	arrdem	I think that (case) will do what I want... brb trying science
15:25	technomancy	core.match maybe
15:25	arrdem	yup. case'll do it
15:26	arrdem	,(let [a :foo] (case a :foo (println "YES")))
15:26	clojurebot	YES
15:32	ckirkendall	loliveira: I can't think of a way around it if :> :* doesn't work
15:33	arrdem	amalloy: what is this "faking an object" of which you speak?
15:33	amalloy	this discussion gives me the impression enlive is some kind of emoticon-oriented library
15:34	amalloy	(fn [message & args] (case message :foo (...) :bar (...))) is the classic scheme/whatever way to create something that's basically an object
15:35	amalloy	that you invoke "methods" on by calling (the-object :foo whatever)
15:35	arrdem	ah. yes I remember this from SIoCP
15:36	amalloy	clojure would generally encourage you to just define public foo and bar functions, which take in whatever non-function data your lambda was capturing
15:42	ckirkendall	loliveira: you might have luck on the enlive user group https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/enlive-clj
15:42	loliveira	ckirkendall: thank you!
15:42	loliveira	ckirkendall: have a nice day. =)
15:51	Gnosis-	if I want a lazy seq of the bytes in a file, is there a standard way to do this?
15:57	arrdem	Gnosis-: a quick google doesn't turn up a stard library approach... your best bet is probably Java's buffered reader with a monad or some kind of continuation.
15:58	treehug	in clojure, is there a way two write float literals? i.e. rather than writing (float 3.5)
15:59	amalloy	Gnosis-: you were asking about converting bytes to characters earlier. are you sure you want bytes, not characters?
15:59	Gnosis-	amalloy: well, right now, I'm working on parsing a binary file, so I definitely want bytes. The UTF-8 question is related to another Clojure project :)
15:59	amalloy	(also, monads and continuations are both totally bonkers for reading from a file)
16:00	Gnosis-	amalloy: I thought monads were a Haskell thing... how can they exist in Clojure too? (I don't really understand what monads are btw)R
16:00	arrdem	amalloy: yes... but if you __really__ wanted to only ever read K bytes of a file at a time
16:02	amalloy	still total nonsense, arrdem
16:02	emezeske	Gnosis-: Monads are a general concept, you can implement them in any language you want
16:02	Gnosis-	emezeske: ah, okay. Like I said, I don't understand monads at all...
16:03	emezeske	Gnosis-: I agree with amalloy on monads being bonkers for what you're trying to do :)
16:03	amalloy	Gnosis-: see clojure.java.io/input-stream and java.io.InputStream/read
16:04	arrdem	amalloy: ah. I forgot about Java's readers packaging cursor position... I was thinking in terms of having a C-style "read K bytes" and needing to manually retain the cursor.
16:05	amalloy	in that context monads would make a little sense. i guess you'd want a state monad containing the current cursor position? still seems like tremendous overkill
16:16	dgrnbrg	I having terrible problems with a :use-ed namespace
16:16	dgrnbrg	I know use is bad, but I'd really like to understand this issue
16:16	dgrnbrg	I am running clojure in a jvm with all kinds of weird stuff, using a patched leiningen
16:17	dgrnbrg	and i have a namespace that adapts a bunch of legacy java code into clojure
16:17	dgrnbrg	and when I require that namespace, everything works
16:17	dgrnbrg	and when I use that namespace, everything still works
16:17	dgrnbrg	except that when I use it, the jvm never exits
16:17	dgrnbrg	the code has the exact same functionality in both cases, except that the require-based one has the namespace prefixes
16:18	dgrnbrg	but for some reason it causes the jvm to never exit when I use the namespace, but not when I require it.
16:19	emezeske	Perhaps when you :use it, it brings a name into your namespace that shadows a clojure.core name?
16:20	emezeske	And then maybe you e.g. call some function, expecting the clojure.core implementation, and get the implementation from this other namespace
16:20	emezeske	Leading to unexpected behavior
16:22	Raynes	emezeske: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJS-355
16:22	Raynes	emezeske: Other than that (which is unrelated to lein-cljsbuild), node works fine with lein-cljsbuild.
16:23	emezeske	Raynes: Awesome!
16:23	Raynes	Every time I try to use cljs targeting node, I end up finding a disappointingly debilitating bug. It is depressing.
16:23	emezeske	Yeah... I guess not that many people are doing it?
16:23	Raynes	That surprises me.
16:23	Raynes	The survey seemed to indicate otherwise.
16:23	dgrnbrg	emezeske: i don't get any shadowing warnings
16:24	lynaghk	Is there any way to check if any of the vars destructured within a let are nil?
16:24	dgrnbrg	i am afraid that perhaps :use causes symbols that I use in def forms to be loaded, which triggers a poorly written static initializer
16:24	Raynes	emezeske: I don't know why people aren't more interested in it. It's the only implementation of Clojure with anything resembling completion that doesn't take long to start up.
16:24	Raynes	emezeske: I don't think there is another good option for Clojure + fast startup speed.
16:24	dgrnbrg	but it seems like :use wouldn't cause different behavior w/ the classloader than :require
16:24	emezeske	Raynes: Yeah, it definitely has startup speed.
16:24	Raynes	In fact, it seemed to be one of the selling points Rich made when he announced cljs.
16:24	drewr	Raynes: I agree; that was my main hope for cljs
16:24	Raynes	A story for command-line scripting with Clojure.
16:25	drewr	I have hopes for cljs-lua
16:25	emezeske	dgrnbrg: What does the classloader have to do with anything?
16:25	amalloy	lynaghk: eh?
16:25	lynaghk	amalloy: I want to do content-based pubsub. Someone should be able to subscribe to messages that match a certain form that's a valid destructuring
16:26	lynaghk	e.g., (subscribe! {{a :a} :stuff} ...)
16:26	dgrnbrg	emezeske: perhaps the hanging is due to some class getting loaded by the :use that isn't loaded by the :require, which creates a non-daemon thread that hangs the process
16:26	dgrnbrg	since it's possible to put code into a static initilaizer
16:26	lynaghk	and then whenever someone publishes a message with content like {:stuff {:a 1 :b 2} :foo 5}, that fn will get called.
16:26	djanatyn	...is cKanren related to Clojure?
16:27	emezeske	dgrnbrg: Uh.. I think you might be over-thinking it. Both use and require load the namespace, they just differ in how it's referred
16:27	Raynes	Nope.
16:27	emezeske	dgrnbrg: Good luck tracking down the problem!
16:27	lynaghk	amalloy: I was hoping to leverage core.match to do this, but it'll match all maps and just destructure their keys to nil.
16:27	dgrnbrg	emezeske: do you know the details of their difference?
16:28	dgrnbrg	because somehow that difference is the source of my bug
16:28	dgrnbrg	and i'm adapting millions of lines of legacy java, and i've seen some iffy things in static initializers already ;)
16:29	dnolen_	Raynes: I think people are using CLJS w/ Node.js but from the JIRA tickets, it's seems like a fraction of the users.
16:29	Raynes	dnolen_: Yeah. :(
16:29	amalloy	lynaghk: you could probably start by calling ##(doc destructure) on the destructuring form
16:29	lazybot	⇒ "([bindings]); "
16:29	Raynes	dnolen_: Speaking of which, did you see that ticket I mentioned a moment ago? bbloom mentioned he wanted you to take a look at it.
16:30	dnolen_	Raynes: yeah just saw it but I'd have to take a closer look.
16:30	emezeske	dgrnbrg: Yeah, the difference is just that use ends up refer-ing to all the public vars of the ns: http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/refer
16:30	lynaghk	amalloy: yeah, I was looking at that.
16:30	dnolen_	djanatyn: cKanren is a variant of miniKanren which is a Scheme system. core.logic is an implementation of miniKanren / cKanren.
16:30	Raynes	If it is what we think it is, it's a pretty nasty one that I'm surprised no one else has run into.
16:31	amalloy	and then, i dunno, have your macro thing do a let-bind itself with their same destructuring form, and check whether any of the not-gensymmed names are non-nil. it's not a perfectly correct solution, but it probably comes close
16:32	hiredman	lynaghk: seems like a large departure from typical pub/sub messagebus stuff
16:32	dgrnbrg	emezeske: i know that's the party line, but it's wrong :)
16:33	dgrnbrg	because it works if i :require and :use the namespace
16:33	dgrnbrg	sorory, :require and :refer
16:33	dgrnbrg	but not if i :use
16:33	hiredman	I know most messagebuses have some kind filter mechanism, but I've never seen those used, typically you publish to different queues and just subscribe to the queues
16:33	dnolen_	Raynes: not sure when I'll have time to dig into that one at least this week, pretty busy. Any detective work / solution strategy you could add to the ticket would be helpful.
16:33	lynaghk	hiredman: yeah, I'm only just toying with the idea after I started juggling a lot of regexs to do redis-like string-based pubsub (e.g., subscribe to "/some/*" or "some/specific/stuff")
16:34	Raynes	dnolen_: No hurry. Just wanted to make sure that it's on your radar
16:34	hiredman	lynaghk: why not just use postal.js?
16:34	dgrnbrg	What exactly is the difference between :use and :require/:refer?
16:34	lynaghk	hiredman: aside from performance, can you think of any disadvantages?
16:34	djanatyn	I've had a really positive experience with clojure so far, and there'll be a 48 hour game jam in 11 days that I'm participating in.
16:35	emezeske	dgrnbrg: I think you need to ask the source code: https://github.com/richhickey/clojure/blob/a1eff35124b923ef8539a35e7a292813ba54a0e0/src/clj/clojure/core.clj#L4859
16:35	hiredman	lynaghk: I think having N queues with different content is simpler than picking apart N different message types from one queue
16:35	djanatyn	Would it be better to use Clojure, or Clojurescript?
16:35	TimMc	dgrnbrg: Have you tried using a VM inspector to find out what threads are still active?
16:35	djanatyn	Clojurescript, embedded in a browser, would be ideal, but I'm not sure how mature it is.
16:35	hiredman	lynaghk: sorry, I sort of assumed you are thinking about this from a clojurescript prospective
16:35	hiredman	win 15
16:35	lynaghk	hiredman: yeah, I am = )
16:35	djanatyn	I've already got a working Clojure setup. Would it be possible to make a game in 48 hours with either of those?
16:35	djanatyn	And if I use clojurescript, would I be using regular JS game libraries, pure canvas, or clojurescript game libraries?
16:36	dnolen_	djanatyn: do you have a lot of Clojure experience?
16:36	lynaghk	hiredman: So are you against any kind of wildcard matching in pubsub?
16:36	hiredman	lynaghk: against is a strong word
16:36	djanatyn	dnolen_: no, but I have lots of haskell experience and some experience with common lisp
16:36	djanatyn	so learning clojure hasn't been very difficult
16:36	lynaghk	hiredman: I haven't worked with either enough to have a really firm opinion---I was just thinking that if you're going to do wildcard matching it should be on the data instead of some half-baked string concatenation
16:37	hiredman	lynaghk: I think wild cards over queues are simpler than writing patterns that and up and match more than one message type
16:38	dnolen_	djanatyn: CLJS is powerful but the usability is pretty rough if you don't have a lot of patience. yoklov has done some cool game work w/ it. CLJS can interop w/ JS ok. game dev in CLJ seems pretty feasible to me as well.
16:38	lynaghk	hiredman: I guess that's the thing---I'm implicitly defining message "types" based on their attributes rather than according to some pre-defined segregation / schema.
16:38	dgrnbrg	TimMc: i'll give that a shot
16:39	yoklov	djanatyn: game in 48 hours in clojure is doable, you doing a jam?
16:39	hiredman	shrug
16:39	yoklov	clojurescript also.
16:39	djanatyn	yoklov: yep! ludum dare.
16:40	yoklov	sweet!
16:40	lynaghk	hiredman: yep. I'm the kind of guy who needs to prototype and try things out for a bit first. I've done some plain queue pubsub, so I just want to try the opposite extreme.
16:42	nbeloglazov	$(doc ..)
16:42	nbeloglazov	,(doc ..)
16:42	clojurebot	"([x form] [x form & more]); form => fieldName-symbol or (instanceMethodName-symbol args*) Expands into a member access (.) of the first member on the first argument, followed by the next member on the result, etc. For instance: (.. System (getProperties) (get \"os.name\")) expands to: (. (. System (getProperties)) (get \"os.name\")) but is easier to write, read, and understand."
16:42	djanatyn	hmm. cljs looks cool, but I would really like to use SLIME, if possible
16:43	yoklov	djanatyn: to be honest though, immutability doesn't give you a whole heck of a lot in terms of developing a game, and if you aren't careful it's extremely easy to run into perf. issues (obviously, keep persistent data structures away from your rendering code). On the other hand, ludum dare is short enough that you probably won't really run into issues wrt that before it's over.
16:44	yoklov	clojure's more fun than most other languages though, so you should go for it.
16:44	solussd	so, every once in awhile I want to use a 'struct'. why are they considered obsolete? Is there nothing they're better for than records? I mean, at very least they're actually functions. :/
16:46	McMartin	No, they're raw objects.
16:47	McMartin	So are records, but records also do the right thing for you with the obnoxious boilerplate functions.
16:47	amalloy	McMartin: are you talking about deftype? solussd was asking about structs
16:48	solussd	I'm talking about structs, created with create-struct, or defined with defstruct
16:48	solussd	(defstruct person :name :age) (struct person "solussd" 104)
16:49	dnolen_	solussd: defrecord creates ctor fns. Personally I find that you almost always want to write your own anyway, usually only a couple of lines of code.
16:50	solussd	yeah, I use structs mostly to declare the keys in a map somewhere so it's obvious what keys are expected when passing a map to some of my functions. It's nice when they're actually maps and not records which only mostly act like maps
16:52	lynaghk	dnolen_: think it's possible to figure out if any core.match destructured locals are nil? I'm poking around the source but nothing stands out. My issue is that I want to match map subsets, but :only is too restrictive.
16:53	dnolen_	lynaghk: hugod (I think?) has brought this up before. definitely something I'm interested in looking at when I have time.
16:54	lynaghk	dnolen_: okay, cool.
16:55	lynaghk	dnolen_: you would be open to a contribution on this topic, then?
16:55	dnolen_	lynaghk: sadly core.match pattern manipulation is not that clear, a lot of pattern matrix manipulation - perhaps a better way to do that but I haven't thought of anything yet.
16:55	dnolen_	lynaghk: yes.
16:55	dnolen_	lynaghk: I think there may even be ticket for it.
16:55	dnolen_	existing ticket
16:58	roma1n_p	Hi everyone, I have a c2/singult question: I cannot seem to add a class attribute to an SVG text (although adding a class to a rect works). Why is that?
17:02	lynaghk	roma1n_p: should work fine if its a valid CSS class.
17:02	lynaghk	dnolen_: it looks like there's an existing patch: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/MATCH-52
17:06	dnolen_	lynaghk: oh heh, JIRA is so annoying. I should go over Jason Jackson
17:06	roma1n_p	lynaghk: I put a snippet at http://pastebin.com/sT44yYvk
17:06	dnolen_	's patches.
17:07	roma1n_p	lynaghk: I suppose "deviceText" is a valid CSS class, although I know squat about CSS :)
17:07	dnolen_	lynaghk: will look at it soon, thanks for bringing it up
17:07	lynaghk	dnolen_: awesome, thanks David. Let me know if you need any help; I'm hoping to get rolling on some stuff based around that functionality asap (if possible)
17:08	lynaghk	roma1n_p: yeah, deviceText is a fine CSS class. Are you using c2 0.2.1-SNAPSHOT?
17:08	roma1n_p	lynaghk: nope, 0.2.1
17:08	lynaghk	roma1n_p: also, just FYI, you don't need to put numbers into quotes in the attribute vals.
17:09	dnolen_	lynaghk: if it looks ok, I'll cut another alpha to help you along.
17:09	lynaghk	dnolen_: I owe you some beers.
17:09	roma1n_p	lynaghk: OK, thanks for the attribute infos! Should I move to -SNAPSHOT then?
17:09	dnolen_	lynaghk: one thing that would help me out, just verifying that the patch works as expected for you.
17:09	lynaghk	roma1n_p: there is no 0.2.1 yet, just the snapshot.
17:10	roma1n_p	lynaghk: so I was using snapshots already I suppose...?
17:10	lynaghk	dnolen_: sure. I'm going to have lunch right now but I'll try applying it to master and get back to you this evening PST
17:10	dnolen_	lynaghk: thx
17:10	lynaghk	roma1n_p: what's in your project.clj?
17:11	roma1n_p	lynaghk: sorry I got confused, I was on 0.2.0 (0.2.1 was the lein-cljsbuild version :P )
17:11	lynaghk	roma1n_p: ah. Give 0.2.1-SNAPSHOT a try; it uses the latest Singult snapshot too
17:13	lynaghk	roma1n_p: also re: your c2 issue on the outdated examples, aperiodic is updating them here: https://github.com/aperiodic/c2-cljs-examples
17:14	roma1n_p	lynaghk: no, 0.2.1-SNAPSHOT did not change results unfortunately
17:14	lynaghk	roma1n_p: you might need to "lein cljsbuild clean" first.
17:17	roma1n_p	lynaghk: still no luck after a cljsbuild. Would you like a minimal test case?
17:17	lynaghk	roma1n_p: yeah, that + an issue on the Singult repo would be awesome
17:17	lynaghk	roma1n_p: thanks for reporting this.
17:17	roma1n_p	lynaghk: thanks for C2 :)
17:18	lynaghk	roma1n_p: waaaiiiitt
17:18	lynaghk	what's alias?
17:18	lynaghk	in your example. The attribute map is the third item in the hiccup vector. It needs to be the second.
17:19	roma1n_p	lynaghk: yup, that was it
17:19	roma1n_p	lynaghk: /me embarassed
17:19	lynaghk	phew. I should have noticed that earlier. I need a sandwich.
17:19	roma1n_p	lynaghk: thanks!
17:20	lynaghk	roma1n_p: also, you can use the shortcut dot and hash on the element symbol for class and id
17:20	lynaghk	[:text.deviceText#my-text ...]
17:20	roma1n_p	lynaghk: ah, good to know
17:20	lynaghk	You typically only need to put the class in the attribute map if you're calculating it dynamically or some such.
17:29	gfredericks	wasn't there a some-pred in core?
17:29	sandbox`	hi everyone, how do you go about running a specific test in clojure? for example, i have a bunch of deftest definitions in a file, and i only want to run one of them through lein
17:31	Guest13977	Per "Programming Clojure", 2e, p.73, I entered (import `(java.io File)) into the REPL. It gave me a NO_SOURCE_FILE nastygram. Is this a config issue or what?
17:31	aperiodic	gfredericks: you mean some-fn & every-pred?
17:32	rod__	hey all - can anyone help with this error i'm getting trying to start a simple compojure application please? thanks - https://www.refheap.com/paste/4324
17:33	rod__	ooops, sorry, got my clojure & compojure channels muddled up! :)
17:34	Raynes	It's fine to ask Compojure questions here too.
17:35	gfredericks	aperiodic: yep that was it; lazybot didn't find it for some reason :/
17:35	rod__	ah cool, well if anyone has any pointers i'm all ears.
17:35	gfredericks	$findfn nil? true? false? true true
17:35	lazybot	[clojure.core/not= clojure.core/dosync clojure.core/sync clojure.core/with-loading-context clojure.core/distinct? clojure.core/case clojure.core/and clojure.core/locking clojure.core/io! clojure.core/when]
17:36	gfredericks	oh nm I was abusing the bot
17:36	amalloy	gfredericks: i don't think there's any args you could pass to findfn that would make it return some-fn or every-pred
17:36	gfredericks	amalloy: right
17:48	technomancy	sandbox`: deftest results in a defn behind the scenes
17:48	technomancy	so just call (my-deftest-name)
17:48	technomancy	fact
17:50	jyc	I have a question about ccw (sorry if it's the wrong place) for anyone who uses it - is it expected that running a leiningen project doesn't run the -main function?
17:50	xeqi	rod__: sounds like you have a bad jar in you're ~/.m2. I'd recommend rm -r ~/.m2/repository and rerunning lein deps
17:50	rod__	ok - thanks both - will nuke it and try again.
17:55	djanatyn	hmm. how do I use or over a list of boolen values?
17:55	djanatyn	I can't use 'reduce, I can't use 'apply, and (or [false false true]) just returns [false false true]
17:56	amalloy	&(doc some)
17:56	lazybot	⇒ "([pred coll]); Returns the first logical true value of (pred x) for any x in coll, else nil. One common idiom is to use a set as pred, for example this will return :fred if :fred is in the sequence, otherwise nil: (some #{:fred} coll)"
17:56	nbeloglazov	,(some identity [false false true])
17:56	clojurebot	true
17:56	djanatyn	amalloy: thank you :)
18:02	TimMc	Guest13977: That should be ', not `.
18:03	TimMc	,(macroexpand-1 '(import '(java.io File)))
18:03	clojurebot	(do (clojure.core/import* "java.io.File"))
18:03	TimMc	,(macroexpand-1 '(import `(java.io File)))
18:03	clojurebot	(do (clojure.core/import* "clojure.core/seq.(clojure.core/concat (clojure.core/list (quote java.io)) (clojure.core/list (quote sandbox/File)))"))
18:14	djanatyn	man, core.logic is really cool!
18:18	dnolen_	djanatyn: it's fun stuff
18:18	McMartin	Oh, fun indeed
18:39	Cr8	wasn't there some nifty function for looking up some key path in a tree of maps that I can't remember the name of, like, I had a map {:a {:b {:c 1}}} and I pass it [:a :b :c]
18:41	Raynes	&(get-in {:a {:b {:c 1}}} [:a :b :c])
18:41	lazybot	⇒ 1
18:41	djanatyn	are there any good libraries for drawing graphs?
18:41	brainproxy	trying to defn inside a defmacro and getting errors like "No matching ctor found for class..."
18:41	djanatyn	I wanted to try the travelling salesman problem with a little graphic
18:41	brainproxy	having a hard time tracking down what's causing the problem...
18:43	Raynes	djanatyn: https://github.com/pallix/lacij Maybe?
18:44	Raynes	brainproxy: Could you post the code and the full trace?
18:44	djanatyn	that's perfect! thanks. you guys are really helpful.
18:44	Raynes	djanatyn: I'll send you a bill
18:45	amalloy	$findfn {:a {:b {:c 1}}} [:a :b :c] 1 ;; Cr8
18:45	lazybot	[clojure.core/get-in]
18:45	Raynes	amalloy: ur so cool and trendy
18:45	brainproxy	Raynes: this is the main part of it: http://cljbin.com/paste/50298280e4b013f51ca863ff
18:45	Cr8	<#
18:45	Cr8	*<3
18:45	brainproxy	ignore the trace cljbin gives
18:45	Raynes	I refuse pastes on cljbin.
18:46	gf3	Raynes: WAT
18:46	Raynes	It is not the right religion.
18:46	Raynes	Bahahaha
18:46	gf3	OMG RUDE FACE
18:46	Raynes	You haven't said a word in like a month.
18:46	brainproxy	lolz, okay, what to use instead
18:46	Raynes	And the first time I say something about cljbin.
18:46	Raynes	brainproxy: I was kidding. it's a running joke between gf3 and I because we both have a Clojure pastebin.
18:46	gf3	brainproxy: Raynes has a competing pastebin
18:47	gtrak	it even uses clojail
18:47	brainproxy	oh, right, now I remember something about that
18:48	brainproxy	anyway, it's weird, in the defmacro if I use def instead of defn, e.g. (def ~name ~xf)
18:49	brainproxy	then all is well
18:49	brainproxy	but that's not quite what I want, I need to wrap some more stuff around ~xf, and so I want to use defn instead, but am getting the ctor error
18:53	Raynes	brainproxy: What does xf look like?
18:53	Raynes	Show me what the output of xform looks like.
18:54	brainproxy	xform returns a function
18:54	brainproxy	xf is that function
18:55	brainproxy	more specifically, xform returns the function returned by enlive's snippet* macro
18:55	Raynes	A function object or a form that would create a function when executed?
18:56	Raynes	Macros work with code -- things that can be printed.
18:56	Raynes	You can't embed a function object in a macro like that.
18:56	Raynes	printed and read back*
18:57	Raynes	brainproxy: You probably want to syntax quote the whole thing and make it expand to the form that creates the function that the function wraps, if that makes sense.
18:57	Raynes	Also, be careful when I talk about macros.
18:57	Raynes	I have a knack at not understanding what people are trying to do at all.
19:00	brainproxy	Raynes: it's okay, will review
19:00	brainproxy	thanks for taking a look
19:00	arrdem	okay. before I call it for the day, is there a way to list all loaded classes? I'm trying to find all chindren of a given class.
19:01	hiredman	nope
19:01	arrdem	good. just what I expected to hear.
19:01	Gnosis-	is there a way to change the output base that prn uses for numbers?
19:01	Gnosis-	i.e., print numbers as 0x1234, etc.
19:03	emezeske	Gnosis-: If you can use something other than prn, format might be good: http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/format
19:04	amalloy	emezeske: i imagine he wants to print a big ol' data structure that contains some numbers, not just a single number
19:04	Gnosis-	right
19:05	Cr8	you could walk it and transform the numbers to hex before printing
19:05	Raynes	You can redefine the method that prn uses to print numbers.
19:05	Raynes	shrug
19:05	Gnosis-	hmm, okay...
19:05	amalloy	warning though, Raynes's ideas are always bad
19:05	Gnosis-	Raynes: it would be cool if prn read metadata to see what base to use for printing a number :)
19:06	amalloy	Gnosis-: numbers don't have metadata
19:06	Gnosis-	oh :(
19:06	Raynes	amalloy: Is this idea bad?
19:06	Raynes	I mean, we've done similar things before.
19:06	Raynes	Man, there I go using clojail as an example of 'good' again.
19:06	amalloy	it's pretty bad, yeah, because that's a global behavior you're changing
19:07	Raynes	Well, it really depends on what he is doing.
19:07	Cr8	,(postwalk (fn [i] (if (number? i) (format "0x%x" i) i)) {:a :b :c {:d 1 :e 2 :c {:a 4}}})
19:07	emezeske	Gnosis-: Out of sheer curiousity, why does the base matter for you? Usually I think of pr as a serializer for read-string
19:07	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: postwalk in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
19:07	Cr8	,(clojure.walk/postwalk (fn [i] (if (number? i) (format "0x%x" i) i)) {:a :b :c {:d 1 :e 2 :c {:a 4}}})
19:07	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.walk>
19:07	Cr8	bah
19:07	Raynes	amalloy: He could always wrap his numbers in a new type and print them differently.
19:07	Cr8	output is: {:a :b, :c {:c {:a "0x4"}, :d "0x1", :e "0x2"}}
19:08	emezeske	Cr8: Those aren't numbers, though, those are strings with representations of numbers
19:08	Cr8	true
19:08	Gnosis-	emezeske: well, because I'm using a map to represent structures inside a binary file, and it's much more "normal" to see the numeric fields as hex instead of decimal
19:09	Gnosis-	also vectors
19:09	Gnosis-	Cr8: thanks
19:09	Cr8	could wrap it in a class that prn's as hex if you really don't want the quotes
19:11	Cr8	actually not really with prn, you couldn't as it tries to output something reader friendly
19:13	brainproxy	Raynes: you were right ... when I stopped trying to "embed" the fn object it worked
19:13	Raynes	That's a fiorst.
19:13	Raynes	first, even
19:31	cemerick	Is there any way to get the version of ClojureScript at runtime, similar to clojure-version?
19:33	cemerick	hrm, I guess git rev numbers would be all there is…
19:51	Frozenlock	Clojurescript is hurting my puny little head. Any tutorial for it?
20:49	emezeske	Frozenlock: How far have you gotten so far in cljs? Do you have a build environment set up?
20:49	Frozenlock	yes and no...
20:50	Frozenlock	I can compile (and autocompile at each modification), autoreload my webpage... but I don't have a working repl :(
20:50	emezeske	Are you using lein-cljsbuild, or something else?
20:50	Frozenlock	lein-cljsbuild
20:51	emezeske	Which repl are you trying to get set up? repl-listen?
20:51	Frozenlock	Yes.
20:51	Frozenlock	:repl-listen-port 9000
20:51	Frozenlock	:repl-launch-commands
20:51	Frozenlock	{"my-launch" ["chromium-browser" "" "http://localhost:8888"]}
20:51	Frozenlock	And then: lein trampoline cljsbuild repl-launch my-launch
20:52	emezeske	What's that empty arg between chromium-browser and http...?
20:52	Frozenlock	it was "-jconsole" for firefox
20:52	emezeske	You should probably remove that altogether
20:52	emezeske	Have you added the little repl-related code segment to your cljs code?
20:53	Frozenlock	I will go with "no" :P
20:53	emezeske	Okay, that's the step you're missing I think
20:53	emezeske	Take a look at this:
20:53	emezeske	https://github.com/emezeske/lein-cljsbuild/blob/master/example-projects/advanced/src-cljs/example/repl.cljs
20:54	emezeske	Your clojurescript code has to explicitly connect to the REPL session
20:54	emezeske	When you run "repl-launch", the clojurescript repl listens on localhost:9000
20:54	emezeske	Then once your clojurescript is loaded, it needs to connect to that port to receive code to execute in the browser
20:56	Frozenlock	Can I still keep my port 8888 for the server? server (8888) --> browser \| browser (9000) ---> REPL?
20:56	emezeske	Yes, the port your http server listens on is totally orthogonal to the repl stuff
20:58	Frozenlock	I think I'm missing the next step too... How can I check if it worked? My REPL will be in the same window as my lein trampoline command?
21:01	wmealing_1	now if only someone could hook up http://www.ymacs.org/demo/ to clojurescript...
21:05	Frozenlock	"ClojureScript:cljs.user> Created new window in existing browser session." And then nothing
21:22	nkoza2	where clojure.contrib.core/dissoc-in go? (I'm using clojure 1.4)
21:23	Frozenlock	Omg I got it!
21:23	bbloom	nkoza2: can't you juse use update-in and dissoc ?
21:23	Frozenlock	Life without a REPL isn't worth living.
21:24	bbloom	Frozenlock: agreed. I have added project.clj to my local versions of all the java code at work, so I can have my REPL :-)
21:24	nkoza2	bbloom: I want to remove all the path if dissoc returns an empty map, I think dissoc-in was better
21:25	Frozenlock	Next step is to bring back the REPL in Emacs (perhaps slime). But I don't want it to mess with the java REPL....
21:27	bbloom	nkoza2: ah ok. i found it: it's core.incubator
21:27	bbloom	here:
21:27	bbloom	https://github.com/clojure/core.incubator/
21:27	nkoza2	bbloom: thanks!
21:27	bbloom	contrib got reorganized, and i guess that the "incubator" is where stuff goes if it's being considered for inclusion into core proper
21:27	nkoza2	weird something as simple as dissoc-in is considered beta
21:28	bbloom	nkoza2: it's not that it's beta, it's that it's behavior is ambiguous
21:28	nkoza2	why is ambiguous?
21:28	bbloom	nkoza2: assoc-in has only one possible behavior, and that's mkdir -p style creation of empty maps down the line
21:29	bbloom	but dissoc-in could be update-in//dissoc or recursive deletion of empty maps
21:29	amalloy	nkoza2: what does (dissoc-in {:a {:b 1}} [:a :b]) return?
21:29	bbloom	the former doesn't mirror assoc-in
21:29	bbloom	but the later is potentially dangerous b/c what do you do with the root map if that's empty? do you get an empty map? or do you get nil?
21:30	bbloom	so you have to treat the root node different from interior nodes different from leaf nodes
21:30	bbloom	it wasn't clear if dissoc-in was generally useful or not
21:31	bbloom	but it seems like it will make it's way into core eventually, consider the behavior turns out to be sane in practice
21:31	bbloom	where it's common to have interior nodes that are both 1) important not to be removed and 2) not empty
21:31	Frozenlock	`(run-lisp "lein trampoline cljsbuild repl-launch my-launch")' I feel like I'm getting near :)
21:32	bbloom	nkoza2: make sense?
21:35	nkoza2	amalloy: it returns {}
21:35	amalloy	nkoza2: the point is it would be reasonable for it to return {:a {}} instead. that's why it's not in core
21:36	nkoza2	bbloom: thanks for the explanation
21:40	bbloom	nkoza2: my pleasure. that one made me scratch my head the first time i saw it too. I decided "ok, these clojure guys are pretty smart, there must be a reason" and reflected on it for a bit until it became obvious!
21:41	nkoza2	bbloom: probably the best is to add an argument to dissoc-in to specify the behaviour, or split it in two functions
21:41	bbloom	nkoza2: well, in general, you really want update-in dissoc
21:42	bbloom	or you want "dissoc recursively up to a point and then stop" b/c you don't want to uncreate your root node or one level of book keeping nodes
21:43	bbloom	hence it not being in core
21:43	kenneth	hey if i've created an uberjar
21:43	bbloom	and it being really easy to write if you need it! not everything needs to be in core
21:43	kenneth	how do i execute that jar
21:43	bbloom	the bar is very high
21:43	kenneth	i mean, how do i execute a clojure / lein main in that jar
21:44	kenneth	i can run by doing `lein run -m some.namespace` -- what's the uberjar equivalent?
21:44	wmealing_1	java -jar filename.jar ?
21:44	eggsby	kenneth: you need to specify in your namespace a (:gen-class) as well as a lein :main directive in your project.clj that refers to that ns, that ns also must have a -main method
21:44	eggsby	try 'lein new app somename' to check out the general structure of apps like that
21:45	kenneth	eggsby: i've got the gen-class, i don't have a :main however
21:45	kenneth	i'd like to specify which ns to run as a cli on the jar, if that's at all possible
21:46	wmealing_1	eggsby: you're psychic
21:46	kenneth	something like java -jar my.jar -m some.ns
21:46	wmealing_1	kenneth: make "lein run" work first.. then it will run whatever is the default "main" is with the uberjar
21:48	wmealing_1	kenneth: https://github.com/wmealing/soundlevel/blob/master/project.clj <-- see :main specified here.
21:48	wmealing_1	see main setup in "soundlevel/core.clj" here https://github.com/wmealing/soundlevel/blob/master/src/soundlevel/core.clj
21:49	kenneth	wmealing_1: right, i get that. should i just make a main ns that executes another ns' -main, then?
21:49	kenneth	if i want to be able to select the ns at execute time
21:50	wmealing_1	dont do that.
21:50	wmealing_1	i mean
21:50	wmealing_1	if you need to execute another ns's -main
21:50	wmealing_1	it might be best just to put it in yours then
21:51	wmealing_1	ie, dont complicate it more than it needs to be.
21:52	kenneth	wmealing_1: well, my use case is this: i have multiple ns (cb.broker, cb.something-else) that all get compiled into the same jar
21:52	wmealing_1	ok, with you so far.
21:52	cmcbride_	does anyone know why this code doesnt work?
21:52	cmcbride_	(read-string (pr-str (byte-array (map byte [1 2 3]))))
21:52	cmcbride_	I get an
21:52	wmealing_1	kenneth: i assume that cb.broke cb.something have their own -main function
21:52	cmcbride_	Unreadable form exception
21:52	kenneth	and i'd like to be able to execute one of these executable ns (ie. has gen-class and -main) with a cli option
21:52	kenneth	right
21:53	kenneth	so i'd like to do something like java -jar my.jar -main cb.broker, and java -jar my.jar -main cb.something
21:53	kenneth	or something to that effect
21:54	wmealing_1	if i was to do it, i'd probably do this
21:54	Frozenlock	Now that I've successfully connected to a cljscript REPL... is there a swank for cljscript? :)
21:54	wmealing_1	in your namespaces main, parse the command line, import the correct "-main" as something else, then run it
21:54	wmealing_1	Frozenlock: good going
21:55	Frozenlock	wmealing_1: Little by little, I'm learning
21:55	wmealing_1	and use them as that name
21:55	wmealing_1	does that make sense kenneth ?
21:55	kenneth	that makes sense
21:56	kenneth	now i need to figure out how to parse cli
21:56	wmealing_1	plenty of options :)
21:56	xeqi	&(pr-str (byte-array (map byte [1 2 3]))
21:56	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading, starting at line 1
21:56	xeqi	&(pr-str (byte-array (map byte [1 2 3])))
21:56	lazybot	⇒ "#<byte[] [B@874230>"
21:58	cmcbride_	&(read-string (pr-str (byte-array (map byte [1 2 3]))))
21:58	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unreadable form
21:58	Frozenlock	technomancy: Can swank.clj somehow be used with cljs?
21:58	xeqi	cmcbride_: java strings like that are not readable
21:58	xeqi	Frozenlock: cemerick is working on a way to have cljs run on nrepl
21:58	xeqi	but its still very very cutting edge
21:58	cmcbride_	so if I wanted to serialize a byte array to send via http, how would I do it?
21:59	Frozenlock	xeqi: Yes, but I'm mainly interested in docstrings and autocomplete, which isn't in nREPL yet if I understand correctly.
22:06	kenneth	ok so how do i get CLI arguments in clojure
22:06	kenneth	i don't' get that
22:06	Iceland_jack	command-line-args ?
22:07	seancorfield	or use tools.cli from contrib
22:08	fenton	why does this function print 0 and not 1? http://pastie.org/4470454
22:08	kenneth	right using tools.cli still wants you to supply it a vector of cli options, which i just learnt from Iceland_jack you get at command-line-args
22:08	seancorfield	tools.cli is nice because it pre-parses everything and handles positional and keyword arguments, defaults, aliases and so on
22:08	kenneth	so i think i'm good now :)
22:08	seancorfield	ok
22:09	fenton	trying to get atoms to work :(
22:09	seancorfield	your -main function has the command line arguments kenneth
22:10	cmcbride_	has anyone has success sending protobufs over http in clojure?
22:10	seancorfield	if you have (defn -main [& args] ...)
22:10	kenneth	oh, wait, it does seancorfield ?
22:10	xeqi	fenton: for is lazy, try ##(doc doseq)
22:10	lazybot	⇒ "Macro ([seq-exprs & body]); Repeatedly executes body (presumably for side-effects) with bindings and filtering as provided by \"for\". Does not retain the head of the sequence. Returns nil."
22:10	seancorfield	then you do (tools.cli/cli args ...) to get your options map
22:10	fenton	thanx xeqi
22:10	kenneth	gotcha
22:11	wmealing_1	fenton: when i read your name, i can't help but think of the dog.
22:11	kenneth	other question, how do you pass arguements when doing a lein run, so that they don't get interpreted as lein arguments
22:11	fenton	wmealing_1: there's a dog?
22:11	seancorfield	it makes me think of ice cream! fenton's ice cream rocks :)
22:11	wmealing_1	you havn't heard !? one second
22:11	wmealing_1	http://fenton.firebrandstore.com/
22:11	wmealing_1	and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GRSbr0EYYU
22:12	fenton	lol...i remember someone sending me that video before!!! I'll have to order one of those t-shirts!!!
22:12	xeqi	cmcbride_: I know #flatland people made https://github.com/flatland/clojure-protobuf ; not sure how they use if
22:13	Frozenlock	I'm still a little confused about the clojure/cljs relation. Shouldn't this provide me with a function metadata? (let [fun "map"] (meta (ns-resolve 'clojure.core (symbol fun))))
22:14	cmcbride_	xeqi: yea Im using that but I cant figure out how to send them over over http
22:14	cmcbride_	thanks though
22:14	cemerick	Frozenlock: nREPL is lower-level than code completion. Stuff like that can readily be made available as via nREPL middleware though, and in such a way that a single nREPL client will be able to talk to e.g. Clojure or cljs or clojure-py or … without changes.
22:15	Frozenlock	o_0
22:19	kenneth	does this make sense? https://gist.github.com/a0d614879581cc06c481
22:22	amalloy	cmcbride_: sending them over http? that's nothing to do with protobuf; just send them however you send any binary data over http
22:24	xeqi	kenneth: I wouldn't expect the (the-ns/-main) part to work
22:25	xeqi	does it?
22:25	amalloy	no way. nor the line above it either
22:26	amalloy	also, kenneth, that function you're trying to write already exists. it's in clojure.main
22:28	djanatyn	I'm having a lot of trouble building a list of all possible orders a list of things can take :\|
22:29	seancorfield	would math.combinatorics help djanatyn ?
22:29	xeqi	djanatyn: math.combinatorics/permutations ?
22:30	amalloy	indeed, permutations, but it's a good function to be able to write yourself too
22:30	Gnosis-	noob question: how do I reload files while in the Leiningen REPL?
22:31	bbloom	`(doc load-file)
22:31	bbloom	er i mean:
22:31	bbloom	,(doc load-file)
22:31	clojurebot	"([name]); Sequentially read and evaluate the set of forms contained in the file."
22:31	djanatyn	seancorfield: that would be cheating :)
22:31	djanatyn	I mean, I'm having limited success
22:32	bbloom	shrug i dunno, i never evaluate more than a single top-level form at a time during development
22:33	cmcbride_	amalloy: thats the part I cant figure out
22:33	Gnosis-	bbloom: so when you update your files, how do you see your changes in the REPL? do you exit and start up again?
22:33	Frozenlock	What's the general opinion about using jQuery in cljs? (jayq)
22:33	bbloom	Gnosis-: I evaluate individual forms as i change them
22:33	djanatyn	,(let [list '(1 2 3 4 5) ] (map (fn [first] (cons first (remove #(identical? first %) list))) list))
22:33	clojurebot	((1 2 3 4 5) (2 1 3 4 5) (3 1 2 4 5) (4 1 2 3 5) (5 1 2 3 4))
22:33	bbloom	Gnosis-: if I change a function, i press a key combination in my vim to send that top-level form to the repl.
22:34	Gnosis-	oh
22:34	bbloom	Gnosis-: and if I delete a function, i use:
22:34	bbloom	`(doc ns-unmap)
22:34	cmcbride_	amalloy: Im using http async client and when I send binary data it doesnt seem to come out the same on the other side
22:34	bbloom	by hand in the repl
22:34	bbloom	damn i suck at clojurebot today:
22:34	bbloom	,(doc ns-unmap)
22:34	clojurebot	"([ns sym]); Removes the mappings for the symbol from the namespace."
22:34	bbloom	but i'm a vim-guy, the swank people may look down upon my primitive mechanism :-)
22:35	Frozenlock	cemerick: I just discovered your podcasts and I really enjoy! Thanks for that!
22:36	amalloy	djanatyn: you'll want a recursive solution. so, just break it up into the two steps. what's the base case, ie all permutations of an empty list; and, given a list of size N, can you reduce the size of the problem to N-1?
22:37	amalloy	what you pasted is basically a solution (although not a very good one IMO) to the recursive case, except you didn't recurse down to further permute the rest of the list
22:38	djanatyn	nod
22:38	djanatyn	that's the farthest I've gotten
22:39	Gnosis-	why doesn't this work?
22:39	Gnosis-	,(<= \0 \3 \9)
22:39	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Character cannot be cast to java.lang.Number>
22:39	i_s	anyone know of a good clojure thing for sanitizing SQL?
22:40	cemerick	Frozenlock: groovy :-)
22:40	amalloy	characters aren't numbers
22:41	Gnosis-	well, what I mean is, why can't <= work on characters, since it makes sense for one to be less than another
22:43	kenneth	amalloy: it is?
22:44	Frozenlock	Omg I just changed a webpage background using my repl. \o/
22:44	Frozenlock	(small goals)
22:44	kenneth	amalloy: not too sure how to use that
22:45	kenneth	jbarrios: hi!
22:45	amalloy	java -cp whatever:paths:here clojure.main -m my.ns
22:46	xeqi	Gnosis-: outta curiousity, whats the ordering for \♥ \❤ \❥ \❣ \❦ \❧ ?
22:47	kenneth	oh awesome amalloy that's what i needed to know! :)
22:47	kenneth	i didn't think it was possible, i asked easier
22:48	amalloy	i think it got added in 1.3? not sure
22:50	amalloy	actually, i guess it's been around forever but got...improved, somehow, at some point? not very helpful information here
22:52	kenneth	jesus, what an unsightly command :p -- java -cp jvm-1.0.0-SNAPSHOT-standalone.jar:/usr/local/share/java/zmq.jar:/usr/share/java/zmq.jar -Djava.library.path=/usr/local/lib:/usr/lib:/usr/lib64:/usr/local/lib64 clojure.main -m cb.broker
22:55	xeqi	and you're not even setting -Xmx
23:05	Gnosis-	kenneth: shell script!
23:07	treehug	i_s: can't think of a portable way, but most jdbc drivers provide an escape function you can use directly. if it's for parameters, you're far better off binding instead of escaping
23:07	Gnosis-	xeqi: whatever the order of the Unicode code points is :)
23:11	djanatyn	umm, what are the car and cdr equivalents in clojure?
23:11	Gnosis-	first and next, I htink
23:11	Gnosis-	could be first and rest
23:12	i_s	treehug: thanks. looks like mine (clojure.java.jdbc) is already doing it.
23:13	Frozenlock	What about cdddar :p
23:18	Gnosis-	Frozenlock: (def cdddar #(nth % 3)) :P
23:19	Frozenlock	Not as sexy
23:20	Gnosis-	You can always write your own Lisp in C
23:20	Gnosis-	struct cons { void car; void cdr;};
23:20	Frozenlock	BAM! Lisp :p
23:20	Gnosis-	damn straight
23:21	Gnosis-	Frozenlock: if you copy-paste that into ##lisp, everyone will twitch at once
23:21	Gnosis-	tell them you found it in the SBCL source code
23:22	Frozenlock	Why would they twitch? If I recall right that's more or less how cons is defined...
23:22	cemerick	huh, I haven't been in #lisp in years. Interesting that there's only 380 ppl. there at the moment.
23:23	Gnosis-	Frozenlock: they want to pretend there's no C involved
23:23	Gnosis-	I dunno, maybe not
23:24	Frozenlock	I can understand, I don't want to admit there's some java under clojure :P
23:25	Raynes	cemerick: That
23:25	Raynes	sentence will end momentarily.
23:25	Raynes	That's because all the cool people are in here.
23:26	cemerick	Roughly, yes. :-)
23:27	Gnosis-	cemerick: I have some pretty harsh criticism of your Clojure book
23:27	Gnosis-	I'm not sure you want to hear it... :)
23:27	Raynes	Oh boy.
23:27	Raynes	Critics, man.
23:27	Raynes	Almost makes me never want to pick my own book back up. I can't wait to hear what people would say about my writing style.
23:28	Raynes	My answer to that is "Did you learn Clojure? Then shut up."
23:28	Raynes	:p
23:28	Gnosis-	cemerick: there's nothing in there about file I/O
23:28	Raynes	Can't cover everything.
23:28	Gnosis-	actually, aside from that, it's an excellent book
23:28	Gnosis-	Raynes: file I/O seems pretty basic, though
23:29	Raynes	I'll admit it is a tiny bit strange to cover web dev but not that.
23:29	Raynes	But it's easy to overlook things when you're operating at such a low level.
23:30	Raynes	Anyways, (line-seq (clojure.java.io/reader "myfile"))
23:30	Gnosis-	you mean high?
23:30	Raynes	No, I meant low.
23:30	Raynes	When you're writing a book, you'
23:30	Raynes	Damn enter key being close to the apostrophe key.
23:31	Raynes	When you write a book, you dig into small pieces at once. Little individual things.
23:31	Gnosis-	oh
23:31	djanatyn	...hmm. okay, so I've made some progress but now this is a mess.
23:31	Raynes	You tend to build it from the middle out.
23:31	Raynes	It's hard to look at what you've written and say "Oops, I forgot x."
23:32	cemerick	Gnosis-: Fair point. File I/O is boring as hell though. Important, but boring.
23:32	Raynes	If x isn't macros or multimethods, anyways.
23:32	Raynes	But hey, he is the writer. I'm the semi-writer-hopeful-guy.
23:32	cemerick	It's like detailing how Java strings are unicode and so aren't screwed up like ruby strings or something.
23:32	tolstoy	cemerick: Oooo, a new (to me) Clojure book? I might just buy it for ammo about Dependency Injection. (Folks loves them some Guice where I work.)
23:33	Raynes	The cool thing about co-authors is that he can just blame it on cgrand or something.
23:33	cemerick	The people that need file I/O will go look it up. :-)
23:33	tolstoy	cemerick: Ammo I'll keep to myself, of course.
23:34	Gnosis-	actually, Java strings kind of are screwed up since they can't handle Unicode above 0xffff
23:34	Gnosis-	meh
23:34	cemerick	Are there any languages that do handle those ranges well?
23:35	Gnosis-	any language with 4-byte characters
23:35	cemerick	Right, I'm wondering if there are any.
23:35	Gnosis-	I think C's wchar_t on some platforms...?
23:35	cemerick	Well, that's awesome. :-P
23:35	Raynes	I think he is trying to understand your standards for 'screwed up'.
23:35	Raynes	Because by your standards, perhaps everything is screwed up.
23:35	Gnosis-	okay, I guess they are good enough for almost everything
23:36	cemerick	Raynes: Screwed up is equating byte arrays with strings, and then put on a jazz-hands show using a pile of ill-conceived functions.
23:37	Raynes	cemerick: Erlang.
23:37	wmealing_1	oh that was low.
23:37	cemerick	Oh? Sad.
23:37	Raynes	Tell me about it. :(
23:37	cemerick	And here I thought it might be fun to tinker with someday.
23:37	wmealing_1	it is
23:38	Raynes	I had nothing but hell with byte strings in Elixir.
23:38	wmealing_1	what trickery were you doing ?
23:38	cemerick	wmealing_1: Perhaps, but I can't bring myself to invest in a runtime that doesn't have reasonable strings.
23:40	wmealing_1	I guess I do less string manipulation than most.. never found it difficult.
23:40	cemerick	Not to say the JVM is a hands-down winner. All of the options Python provided for strings was very pleasant.
23:40	cemerick	s/was/were
23:44	amalloy	djanatyn: still working on permutations?
23:48	amalloy	if so, gist what you've figured out and i'll see if i can help you get it working
23:49	Frozenlock	In cljs, does one use a library like in clojure? Say: (use 'jayq.core) ?
23:53	djanatyn	amalloy: yes
23:54	xeqi	Frozenlock: I usually use :require or :require-macros, but I would expect :use to work
23:56	djanatyn	amalloy: https://gist.github.com/3346147
23:57	TimMc	cemerick: In Erlang, strings aren't even a separate thing, they are just (cons?) lists of integers.
23:58	cemerick	TimMc: Noted.
23:58	TimMc	You can apparently also do UTF-8 strings as binary objects, but some libraries use one and some the other.
23:59	amalloy	huh, 4clojure hasn't asked a permutations question? crazy