#clojure – 2012-05-15

2012-05-15

00:43	muhoo	i have to punt on this one: how would i transform a tree of maps into a [:ul [:li structure in hiccup?
00:43	muhoo	i started using zippers, and got.... confused.
00:44	brehaut	muhoo: what are the keys and values in the map?
00:48	brehaut	muhoo: https://www.refheap.com/paste/4fb1dfb7e4b07e354afa355d ?
00:48	muhoo	brehaut: it's like [{:name "foo" :val 2} [[{:name "child" :val 5} [{:name "subchild" :val 666} ]]]]
00:48	muhoo	it's more like a nested vector than a nested map
00:49	muhoo	i stupidly didn't set it up right
00:49	brehaut	so whats the output you would want for that?
00:49	muhoo	your refheap is helpful though
00:50	muhoo	i'd need to change it a bit. vector? would tell me if i have a child node.
00:50	brehaut	yup
00:51	brehaut	and you'll want to modify the destructuring
00:51	brehaut	(ie, you probably dont want to destructure)
00:51	muhoo	not in this case, i'd want to do other things, like format the stuff in that map.
00:51	muhoo	hmm.. this looks promising.
00:51	muhoo	thanks!
00:51	brehaut	right, but you'll probably want to create a seperate function for that and call it in the else of the map's fn
00:52	brehaut	no worries
00:52	brehaut	also some of the 4clojure tree problems are good practise for this sort of shenanigans
00:54	muhoo	i really need to do those. i feel like if i can understand trees, the world is mine.
00:54	muhoo	or, at least, lisps are.
00:56	brehaut	you'll think so, right up till you need to understand graphs :P
00:57	kaoD	I find tress a bit awkward
00:57	kaoD	even more that graphs
00:57	kaoD	(I mean, trees done right)
02:15	michaelr525	hello
02:15	LuminousMonkey	G'day
02:28	ambrosebs	Should I think of the null pointer as being related to Java or to the JVM?
02:32	kovasb	ambrosebs: interesting question. what are the pros and cons?
02:40	ambrosebs	kovasb: I just wanted to get my terminology right. Did Java invent the null pointer, or is it part of the JVM?
02:41	ambrosebs	Where can I find the answers to these kinds of things?
02:41	LuminousMonkey	Isn't it part of the JVM? http://docs.oracle.com/javase/specs/jvms/se7/html/jvms-2.html#jvms-2.4 Or am I missing something?
02:42	kovasb	I'm pretty sure the null pointer predates both of them
02:42	ambrosebs	LuminousMonkey: ah, thanks!
02:42	ambrosebs	kovasb: I meant in the context of the JVM
02:42	kovasb	yeah, seems like a jvm feature
02:42	kovasb	"feature"
02:42	ambrosebs	:)
02:43	ambrosebs	thanks!
02:44	LuminousMonkey	ambrosebs: I'm just surprised you're not doing this sort of thing at 2am, unless you're starting early today. :P
02:44	ambrosebs	LuminousMonkey: I just woke up...
02:44	ambrosebs	hahaha
02:45	ambrosebs	I basically was doing this at 2am
02:45	LuminousMonkey	ambrosebs: Good day for staying in bed anyway.
02:49	robertstuttaford	is it possible to conditionally bind in a value in a let form if an arg in the containing function has a value of nil, otherwise use that value?
02:50	ambrosebs	are you talking about fnil?
02:50	Iceland_jack	if-let?
02:50	Iceland_jack	,(doc if-let)
02:50	clojurebot	"([bindings then] [bindings then else & oldform]); bindings => binding-form test If test is true, evaluates then with binding-form bound to the value of test, if not, yields else"
02:50	Raynes	&(doc fnil)
02:50	lazybot	⇒ "([f x] [f x y] [f x y z]); Takes a function f, and returns a function that calls f, replacing a nil first argument to f with the supplied value x. Higher arity versions can replace arguments in the second and third positions (y, z). Note that the function f can... https://www.refheap.com/paste/2724
02:50	robertstuttaford	gah of course
02:51	Raynes	lazybot is better for docstrings because it pastes long output.
02:51	LuminousMonkey	Like x \|\|= "other" in Ruby?
02:51	robertstuttaford	yes LuminousMonkey. i'll check both if-let and fnil out
02:51	robertstuttaford	thanks!
02:54	amalloy	robertstuttaford: it sounds like you just want ##(doc or)
02:54	lazybot	⇒ "Macro ([] [x] [x & next]); Evaluates exprs one at a time, from left to right. If a form returns a logical true value, or returns that value and doesn't evaluate any of the other expressions, otherwise it returns the value of the last expression. (or) returns nil."
02:56	LuminousMonkey	Hooray for prefix notation.
03:04	robertstuttaford	amalloy: or is perfect, thank you
03:09	patchwork	Huh, suddenly when trying to run any lein command, I get an http timeout?
03:09	patchwork	Is there any way to run a lein command without making an http request?
03:14	patchwork	Why would lein clean be timing out?
03:21	robertstuttaford	it's probably trying to update deps?
03:43	robertstuttaford	how do i list all the loaded namespaces?
03:43	robertstuttaford	ie, all the valid targets for (in-ns)
03:44	LuminousMonkey	&(doc all-ns)
03:44	lazybot	⇒ "([]); Returns a sequence of all namespaces."
03:50	cljnewb_2345	alright, has anyone here successfully run lein-beanstalk?
03:50	cljnewb_2345	i'm getting all types of errors
03:50	cljnewb_2345	https://github.com/weavejester/lein-beanstalk is a bit light on documentation
03:50	cljnewb_2345	all all I really want is a function project.lcj + src/main.clj
03:51	cljnewb_2345	then, I can start modifying it
04:07	robertstuttaford	does 'lein ring server' notify via STDOUT when it detects file modifications?
04:08	LuminousMonkey	I've never noticed if it does.
04:08	robertstuttaford	i don't think it's actually reloading files for me
04:29	robertstuttaford	argh. how do i get a java.util.Date from the string "yyyy-mm-dd hh:mm:ss"?
04:33	xeqi	&(.parse (java.text.SimpleDateFormat. "yyyy-mm-dd hh:mm:ss") "2012-04-15 03:32:13")
04:33	lazybot	⇒ #inst "2012-01-15T11:32:13.000-00:00"
04:35	robertstuttaford	thank you xeqi
04:36	xeqi	well, something like that since it seems to have given me a different time
04:39	amalloy	xeqi: m can't be both minute and month
04:41	xeqi	&(.parse (java.text.SimpleDateFormat. "yyyy-MM-dd HH:mm:ss") "2012-04-15 03:32:13")
04:41	lazybot	⇒ #inst "2012-04-15T10:32:13.000-00:00"
04:43	xeqi	closer
04:43	amalloy	timezone issues now. i wouldn't worry about that; it probably prints back out correctly
04:46	michaelr525	'(when-let [[i] []] (println i))
04:46	michaelr525	,(when-let [[i] []] (println i))
04:47	clojurebot	nil
04:47	michaelr525	,(when-let [[i] []] (println "hello"))
04:47	clojurebot	hello
04:47	michaelr525	why this binding evaluates to true?
04:48	michaelr525	it says get me the first element of the seq, right?
04:49	kovasb	so, what is the current way to convert a clojurescript hash map to a plain old javascript object?
04:49	michaelr525	the seq is empty, the binded value is nil but the binding expression evaluates to true and executes the body.
04:49	kovasb	we used to have .strobj, but I'm guessing that doesn't work for the new persistent collections
04:52	xeqi	&(macroexpand-1 '(when-let [[i] []] (println "hello")))
04:52	lazybot	⇒ (clojure.core/let [temp__3974__auto__ []] (clojure.core/when temp__3974__auto__ (clojure.core/let [[i] temp__3974__auto__] (println "hello"))))
04:53	michaelr525	kovasb: everybody are drinking coffee :)
04:53	kovasb	yup
04:53	michaelr525	xeqi: let me parse that..
04:53	xeqi	heh
04:53	xeqi	when checks the []
04:54	xeqi	and sees thats not falsy
04:54	xeqi	and then proceeds to do a let binding [i]
04:54	michaelr525	oh, i see
04:55	michaelr525	i just rewrote it as (let [[i]...] (when i))
04:55	michaelr525	i wonder whether there is another solution which is more elegant
04:55	clojurebot	Ack. Ack.
04:58	michaelr525	&(macroexpand '(when-let [[i] []] (println "hello")))
05:10	robertstuttaford	when i connect to an nrepl server from lein2, it works great. when i connect from ccw, it doesn't give me any errors, but i don't get any responses to my commands, either
05:11	robertstuttaford	damn frustrating because i can't leverage the evaluation tools in eclipse
05:14	ogrim	Hello, I
05:14	ogrim	have a question :P
05:15	ogrim	when updating deps for a forked project, I want to put it on clojars - so I add my group id, BUT whould I update the original version? I updated a project from 1.3 to 1.4. Not sure if idiomatic to do so.
06:27	ejackson	Raynes: why is clojure-py awesome ?
06:30	ejackson	I don't really know the python platform, does it give you something that the JVM doesn't ?
06:32	clgv	ejackson: a global interpreter lock ;)
06:33	ejackson	hehehe
06:34	clgv	ejackson: they started an erlang like concurrency implementation afair
06:35	ejackson	hmmm. My only opinion on this is what I read from Rich :)
06:35	clgv	what did he write about clojure-py?
06:36	ejackson	no, he wrote about Erlang concurrency a while back
06:37	ejackson	and why he did it differently in Clojure
06:37	clgv	ah ok
06:38	ejackson	clgv: you EuroClojuring ?
06:39	clgv	ejackson: no. have been to european lisp symposium already ;)
06:39	ejackson	how was it ?
06:39	clgv	good. also very nice city.
06:40	ejackson	well, compared to London....
06:40	clgv	London can be nice too. I have been there in a sunny warm summer week^^
06:42	ejackson	yeah its alright, provided you don't actually have to live there
06:42	ejackson	a live in LSD-flashback
06:43	clgv	haha
06:48	clgv	what is the name of this rule engine with a leiningen plugin that can check clojure code for non--idiomatic code or common pitfalls?
06:52	foxdonut	clgv: just guessing, is it this? https://github.com/jonase/eastwood
06:52	Borkdude	clgv: https://github.com/jonase/kibit
06:53	clgv	oh I think I saw both - must be one of them I was thinking of
06:53	foxdonut	I just got the "eastwood" part -- clojure lint = clint :D
06:53	clgv	hehe
06:54	foxdonut	both look interesting.. glad you asked clgv
06:55	clgv	oh kibit is spitting out a lot of infos
06:56	clgv	I should try a smaller project
06:56	ejackson	clgv: yeah, eastwood, been using it, kinda fun
06:56	ejackson	turns out I'm fond of swapping [arglist] and "docstring",,,, doh !
06:59	foxdonut	ejackson: (defn foo [bar] "docstring" ...) has always seemed more natural to me.
07:00	clgv	foxdonut: but it does not make clear if you want to return the string or whether it is doc ;)
07:06	foxdonut	clgv: you're right, for sure. But as I am typing, it just seems to flow more naturally to type the fn name + args, then the docstring.
07:06	foxdonut	clgv: also it would not make much sense for functions that have multiple arities..
07:07	clgv	yep
07:10	muhoo	is there any kind of threading macro where, if at any point in the thread i get nil, don't continue to the rest of the thread?
07:11	muhoo	i.e., (-> loc z/down z/down z/branch?) ===> BOOM!! NPE because you can't do z/branch? on nil
07:11	ejackson	muhoo, yep -?>
07:11	muhoo	it'd be nice if i could do (-> loc z/down z/down z/down z/branch?) or z/node or whatever, and if there's a nil at any point, the thread would return nil
07:11	muhoo	ejackson: awesome, thanks
07:12	ejackson	its in core.incubator
07:12	ejackson	so you'll need to include that
07:50	augustl	looking for tools to generate static HTML pages with clojure, for my own blog
07:51	augustl	other than just building a website and wget-ing the HTML :)
07:53	michaelr525	why generate static HTML pages?
07:54	dan_b	means you don't have to install clojure on your web host, is one consideration
07:54	michaelr525	ah
07:55	michaelr525	ok, then why write a static site in clojure?
07:55	dan_b	perhaps you really really like hiccup
07:56	ejackson	augustl: ultimately hiccup/enlive all output html strings, so just figure a way to capture and save those ?
07:56	dan_b	similar things exist in other languages -> https://github.com/mojombo/jekyll/
07:56	augustl	michaelr525: mostly just because I want to use clojure
07:56	augustl	ejackson: yeah I guess
07:57	ejackson	do it well and release as a library for generating static html pages from clojure:)
07:57	augustl	makes sense to have a separate tool for dynamic html page => static html anyways
07:57	augustl	so that it's reusable
07:57	augustl	I think wget can only partially do it
07:57	augustl	uh, yeah, what ejackson said :)
07:57	michaelr525	then why don't you just install clojure at your webhost and run a dynamic site?
07:57	ejackson	there might exist such a thing, i dunno.
07:58	augustl	michaelr525: it's no dynamic content (user input etc) so it's easier to host it as HTML
07:58	augustl	also, it scales ;)
07:58	michaelr525	much easier to just throw a dynamic site imho
07:59	ejackson	augustl: Lau Jensen did something like this for his blog a while back, I think he posted about what he did. Might help
07:59	dan_b	can't push clojure to a cdn though
07:59	augustl	semi related, if I build such a scraping tool with clojure, how would it be distributed? A .jar?
07:59	augustl	ejackson: ah, cool
08:00	augustl	ejackson: http://www.bestinclass.dk/ ? Seems to be a tumblr for the blog
08:01	ejackson	he's subsequently changed it back :)
08:01	ejackson	hahaha
08:01	augustl	heh
08:01	augustl	thanks for the help, though, I know what to do now
08:01	mittchel	((fn [x] (clojure.string/join "Hello, " (clojure.string/join x "!"))) "Dave")
08:01	michaelr525	dan_b: is it a real use case? to host html on a cdn?
08:02	mittchel	why does this give me "!" and not Hello, Dave!
08:02	augustl	(build my webpage with clojure and optionally find or write a tool to turn any web page to static HTML)
08:08	michaelr525	mittchel: you can just write (str "Hello, " x "Dave")
08:08	mittchel	.(str "Hello, " x "Dave")
08:08	mittchel	,(str "Hello, " x "Dave")
08:08	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: x in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
08:09	michaelr525	&(let [x "something"](str "Hello, " x "Dave"))
08:09	lazybot	⇒ "Hello, somethingDave"
08:09	mittchel	but I actually need a "!" after the "dave" without placing it in the name
08:09	mittchel	so, Hello, Dave!
08:09	foxdonut	&(let [x "Dave"] (str "Hello, " x "!"))
08:09	lazybot	⇒ "Hello, Dave!"
08:11	mittchel	hm I understand what it does
08:11	foxdonut	&(require 'clojure.string)
08:11	lazybot	java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.string
08:11	foxdonut	,(require 'clojure.string)
08:11	clojurebot	nil
08:11	foxdonut	,(clojure.string/join "\|" ["one" "two" "three"])
08:11	clojurebot	"one\|two\|three"
08:12	foxdonut	mittchel: so join is more for putting a separator in between a bunch of strings
08:12	mittchel	ahh cool :D
08:12	mittchel	cause I',m trying out this one: http://www.4clojure.com/problem/16
08:13	bderooms_	is there a way to let clojure use more memory?
08:13	foxdonut	mittchel: yeah, str is your friend for that one.
08:13	mittchel	do I need to use let too for the !
08:14	foxdonut	mittchel: no, you can just use (fn [x] (str "Hello, " x "!"))
08:14	mittchel	Yea I actually filled that in haha
08:14	mittchel	worked:P cool
08:17	ejackson	bderooms_: you have to pass in a param to the jvm
08:18	ejackson	-Xmms and friends
08:19	ejackson	bderooms_: http://www.devdaily.com/blog/post/java/java-xmx-xms-memory-heap-size-control
08:20	ejackson	you can pass these in via leiningen
08:20	bderooms_	I passed them to java when calling the jar
08:20	bderooms_	but it 'seems' to still cap on memory
08:20	kaoD	bderooms_: it shouldn't
08:20	bderooms_	my cpu's go at 90 percent, then the memory curve flattens out and the cpu's drop
08:21	bderooms_	if I give less load, the cpu's work at 99 percent continiously
08:21	bderooms_	maybe it's not the memory but I'm puzzled..
08:21	ejackson	does sound like memory
08:22	kaoD	but maybe you're still hitting memory limits even raising them
08:22	bderooms_	I gave java -Xincgc -Xmx1024m -Xms1024m -cp clojure.jar:clojure-contrib.jar clojure.main file.clj as argument
08:22	kaoD	that should be raising the limits
08:22	kaoD	so probably you're still hitting them
08:23	bderooms_	kaoD: if I use thos e settings I don't see a difference. It goes from 959 ram to 1.3 gb ram when I run
08:23	bderooms_	but 1.3 seems to be the limit
08:23	kaoD	no wonder: 1024m is about 1.3gb ram
08:23	bderooms_	shouldn't it go +1gb
08:23	bderooms_	ah I was assuming the 956 mb is from my OS
08:23	kaoD	-Xmx2048m -Xms2048m
08:23	kaoD	that's 2GB ram
08:23	bderooms_	that does not work
08:24	bderooms_	could not reserve enough heap space
08:24	kaoD	do you have enough ram to fit it?
08:25	bderooms_	4 gb
08:25	bderooms_	32 bit system though
08:25	bderooms_	well, I actually have 8 gig, but due to the 32 bit I only have 3.2 to allocate
08:26	kaoD	hmm...
08:26	kaoD	32bit should be enough for 2gb allocation
08:26	bderooms_	my friends just suggested I try on our university's server
08:26	bderooms_	I guess I'll try that
08:26	bderooms_	64 bit system
08:27	kaoD	oh, wait a sec
08:28	kaoD	try -Xmx2048m -Xms1024m
08:29	kaoD	also: incremental GC will lead to poor garbage collection
08:29	kaoD	(although it will avoid pauses for GC)
08:31	kaoD	also: try just -Xmx1850M
08:31	mittchel	Is anyone able to explain me this one: http://www.4clojure.com/problem/71 ?
08:31	kaoD	mittchel: sure, although you might wanna go to #4clojure
08:32	kaoD	mittchel: (__ (sort (rest (reverse [2 5 4 1 3 6])))) is obviously == (-> [2 5 4 1 3 6] reverse rest sort __)
08:32	kaoD	so you just need some way to get 5 out of those expressions
08:32	bderooms_	kaoD: same results
08:32	kaoD	&(reverse [2 5 4 1 3 6])
08:32	lazybot	⇒ (6 3 1 4 5 2)
08:33	bderooms_	1450 works
08:33	bderooms_	!
08:33	bderooms_	:)
08:33	kaoD	&(rest (reverse [2 5 4 1 3 6]))
08:33	lazybot	⇒ (3 1 4 5 2)
08:33	kaoD	&(sort (rest (reverse [2 5 4 1 3 6])))
08:33	lazybot	⇒ (1 2 3 4 5)
08:33	bderooms_	and yey.. we get more memory
08:33	kaoD	now it should be easy enough
08:33	bderooms_	so I guess the defautl was already 1024
08:33	mittchel	Well it's abracadabra for me what happens there lol
08:34	mittchel	I know the reverse stuff
08:34	kaoD	what do you mean abracadabra?
08:34	mittchel	but I don't know how to solve the problem, cause I don't know what it wants as exceed output
08:34	kaoD	you want 5 as output
08:34	mittchel	like single number 5 or [1 2 3 4 5]
08:34	kaoD	bderooms_: probably you're hitting your OS limit, although 1450 seems like an odd number to be your limit :S
08:34	kaoD	mittchel: as I said, the first and second expressions are equivalent
08:34	kaoD	that problem is meant to show you that
08:35	kaoD	-> acts like a simplification there
08:35	kaoD	(__ (sort (rest (reverse [2 5 4 1 3 6])))) is obviously == (-> [2 5 4 1 3 6] reverse rest sort __)
08:35	mittchel	ah ok
08:35	kaoD	&(sort (rest (reverse [2 5 4 1 3 6])))
08:35	lazybot	⇒ (1 2 3 4 5)
08:35	mittchel	It's just shorter
08:35	kaoD	&(-> [2 5 4 1 3 6] reverse rest sort)
08:35	lazybot	⇒ (1 2 3 4 5)
08:35	bderooms_	kaoD: was not done testing yet, 1600 also still works
08:35	kaoD	whatever you fill in the __
08:36	kaoD	both expressions will result the same
08:36	kaoD	e.g.
08:36	kaoD	&(first (sort (rest (reverse [2 5 4 1 3 6]))))
08:36	lazybot	⇒ 1
08:36	mittchel	well whatever I fill in there it still gives me errors haha
08:36	kaoD	&(-> [2 5 4 1 3 6] reverse rest sort first)
08:36	lazybot	⇒ 1
08:36	kaoD	how?
08:36	clojurebot	with style and grace
08:36	kaoD	lol
08:36	kaoD	what kind of errors?
08:36	mittchel	I should fill in [1 2 3 4 5] rigjt
08:36	kaoD	nope
08:36	kaoD	why would you?
08:37	mittchel	argh
08:37	mittchel	I dont know
08:37	mittchel	lol
08:37	kaoD	lets go through this again
08:37	mittchel	I know 2 expressions are the same
08:37	kaoD	read closely
08:37	mittchel	and I understand -> is just neater way to right the first expression
08:37	kaoD	yep
08:37	mittchel	I just don't understand what to fill on the __ to make it compile
08:37	kaoD	well... any function
08:37	kaoD	(__ (sort (rest (reverse [2 5 4 1 3 6]))))
08:38	kaoD	__ is the first element of a form
08:38	kaoD	so it should be a function
08:38	kaoD	right?
08:38	clojurebot	technomancy: you're right I should explain the reason. The reason is I would like to be able to call aether with an extra parameter for introducing my own :transfer-listener.
08:38	mittchel	I think so haha
08:38	kaoD	it makes no sense to put a vector there
08:38	kaoD	so you have this:
08:38	kaoD	&(sort (rest (reverse [2 5 4 1 3 6])))
08:38	lazybot	⇒ (1 2 3 4 5)
08:39	kaoD	that's your partial result
08:39	kaoD	BEFORE applying __
08:39	kaoD	same goes for the -> form
08:39	kaoD	&(-> [2 5 4 1 3 6] reverse rest sort)
08:39	lazybot	⇒ (1 2 3 4 5)
08:39	kaoD	and since these two forms are ALWAYS the same
08:39	mittchel	it can be anything
08:39	kaoD	your goal is to get them equal to the THIRD part of the if
08:39	mittchel	ah
08:39	kaoD	(which is 5)
08:40	ambrosebs	is IFn the correct interface to extend for invocable types?
08:40	kaoD	and how would you get 5 out of (1 2 3 4 5)?
08:40	kaoD	ambrosebs: IIRC it is
08:40	kaoD	you mean invocable like a set, vector, map, right?
08:40	ambrosebs	yes
08:40	kaoD	then it is
08:41	ambrosebs	does it support rest args?
08:41	mittchel	ahh
08:41	mittchel	lol
08:41	mittchel	Something with find maybe
08:41	kaoD	ambrosebs: not sure TBH
08:41	mittchel	let me check clojure cheat sheet:P
08:41	kaoD	mittchel: find? what the hell?
08:42	kaoD	okay let's do this again
08:42	mittchel	filter?:Pp
08:42	kaoD	this is what you have
08:42	kaoD	&(-> [2 5 4 1 3 6] reverse rest sort)
08:42	lazybot	⇒ (1 2 3 4 5)
08:42	kaoD	&(-> [2 5 4 1 3 6] reverse rest sort second)
08:42	lazybot	⇒ 2
08:42	kaoD	&(-> [2 5 4 1 3 6] reverse rest sort first)
08:42	lazybot	⇒ 1
08:42	clgv	&(ancestors map)
08:42	lazybot	⇒ nil
08:43	clgv	&(ancestors (type map))
08:43	lazybot	⇒ #{clojure.lang.Fn java.lang.Runnable java.io.Serializable java.util.Comparator clojure.lang.IMeta clojure.lang.AFn java.util.concurrent.Callable clojure.lang.IObj clojure.lang.IFn clojure.lang.AFunction clojure.lang.RestFn java.lang.Object}
08:43	mittchel	ahw
08:43	mittchel	isn't it just last
08:43	mittchel	since [1 2 3 4 5] <- last one is 5
08:43	kaoD	yup
08:43	kaoD	it is
08:44	kaoD	&(-> [2 5 4 1 3 6] reverse rest sort last)
08:44	lazybot	⇒ 5
08:44	clgv	mittchel: there is also 'nth
08:44	mittchel	lol I actually understand it now
08:45	kaoD	&(-> [2 5 4 1 3 6] reverse rest sort (nth 4))
08:45	lazybot	⇒ 5
08:45	mittchel	thanks a lot kaod
08:45	mittchel	It's really easy wants you get it
08:47	mittchel	basically what it does is (res(reverse 2 5 4 1 3 6)) so reverse makes it 6 3 1 4 5 2. rest says the first one should be 'skipped' so you keep 3 1 4 5 2. Sort just sorts it to [1 2 3 4 5]. Int he last if it wants to be 5, so if you call last you'll get 5 back.
08:47	kaoD	yeah, that's itr
08:48	kaoD	bderooms_: it seems that JVM requires a contiguous memory block
08:48	kaoD	so you might be running into memory fragmentation
08:50	mittchel	Whats the difference between -> and ->>
08:52	kaoD	-> insert as second
08:52	kaoD	->> as last
08:53	gfredericks	-<> insert wherever you want
08:53	ejackson	gfredericks: is that in core ?
08:53	kaoD	gfredericks: what?
08:53	clgv	gfredericks: where is that defined?
08:53	kaoD	lol you all came alive
08:53	ejackson	settle, settle !
08:53	gfredericks	swiss arrows
08:54	clgv	the swiss, again!
08:54	gfredericks	$google github swiss-arrows
08:54	lazybot	[rplevy/swiss-arrows · GitHub] https://github.com/rplevy/swiss-arrows
08:55	gfredericks	ha -- I like using the clojars link for "installation"
08:55	kaoD	mittchel: see this:
08:55	kaoD	&( -> [1 2 3 4 5] (#(print %& "\n") 6 7 8 9) )
08:55	lazybot	⇒ ([1 2 3 4 5] 6 7 8 9) nil
08:55	gfredericks	no keeping versions uptodate in the readme
08:55	kaoD	&( ->> [1 2 3 4 5] (#(print %& "\n") 6 7 8 9) )
08:55	lazybot	⇒ (6 7 8 9 [1 2 3 4 5]) nil
08:55	clgv	clojure 1.4 has no :use anymore?
08:55	mittchel	so it switches forms basicly?
08:56	kaoD	mittchel: nope
08:56	mittchel	del other forms
08:56	mittchel	well*
08:56	kaoD	mittchel: inserts as second
08:56	kaoD	or last
08:56	mittchel	Yes and the -> inserts as first right?
08:56	bderooms_	kaoD: thx for the info
08:56	kaoD	second if you cound the function
08:57	kaoD	*count
08:57	kaoD	gfredericks: The Trystero Furcula <- what a name
08:57	mittchel	Well if you say both inserts as second
08:57	mittchel	w
08:57	mittchel	what the hell is the difference then
08:58	kaoD	what?
08:58	clojurebot	What is short for ,(doc ...)
08:58	kaoD	-> second (or first if you don't count the function)
08:58	kaoD	->> last
08:58	jweiss	i'm a little confused about "lein run" - seems like sometimes it compiles the main namespace for you, other times it expects you to have done it.
08:58	kaoD	see the examples again
08:58	kaoD	&( -> [1 2 3 4 5] (#(print %& "\n") 6 7 8 9) )
08:58	lazybot	⇒ ([1 2 3 4 5] 6 7 8 9) nil
08:58	clgv	&(clojure-version)
08:58	lazybot	⇒ "1.4.0"
08:59	kaoD	&( ->> [1 2 3 4 5] (#(print %& "\n") 6 7 8 9) )
08:59	lazybot	⇒ (6 7 8 9 [1 2 3 4 5]) nil
08:59	kaoD	6 7 8 9 are SEVERAL forms
08:59	kaoD	it's not a vector
08:59	clgv	&(->> (ns-publics 'clojure.core) keys (into #{}) 'use)
08:59	lazybot	java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.core
09:00	clgv	&(->> (ns-publics clojure.core) keys (into #{}) 'use)
09:00	lazybot	java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.core
09:00	clgv	&(->> (ns-publics (the-ns 'clojure.core)) keys (into #{}) 'use)
09:00	lazybot	java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.core
09:00	kaoD	&(ns-publics "clojure.core")
09:00	lazybot	java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! ns-publics is bad!
09:01	clgv	haha lol k
09:01	clgv	that changed as well
09:03	mdeboard	&ns
09:03	lazybot	⇒ #<Namespace sandbox3826>
09:03	mdeboard	:o
09:03	clgv	&ns
09:03	lazybot	⇒ #<Namespace sandbox3826>
09:04	clgv	damn, we have the same sandbox - dont steal my cake!
09:05	hyPiRion	&(ns foo) ?
09:05	lazybot	java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.core
09:06	duck1123	&(in-ns 'foo)
09:06	lazybot	java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! in-ns is bad!
09:07	clgv	"The Diamond Fishing Rod" :D
09:08	kaoD	,(ns-publics 'clojure.core)
09:08	clojurebot	{sorted-map #'clojure.core/sorted-map, read-line #'clojure.core/read-line, re-pattern #'clojure.core/re-pattern, keyword? #'clojure.core/keyword?, unchecked-inc-int #'clojure.core/unchecked-inc-int, ...}
09:08	clgv	,(clojure-version)
09:08	clojurebot	"1.4.0-master-SNAPSHOT"
09:08	kaoD	there you go
09:08	kaoD	they didn't change it
09:08	kaoD	it worked with the string because... it didn't work
09:08	kaoD	(oh, the irony)
09:09	kaoD	,(->> (ns-publics 'clojure.core) keys (into #{}) 'use)
09:09	clojurebot	use
09:09	kaoD	,(->> (ns-publics 'clojure.core) keys (into #{}))
09:09	clojurebot	#{sorted-map read-line re-pattern keyword? unchecked-inc-int ...}
09:10	robertstuttaford	argh my eclipse/ccw/leiningen setup is broken. no longer getting leiningen deps appearing in the project. now deleted all of eclipse and its metadata and trying from scratch
09:10	robertstuttaford	i really should spend some time learning emacs :-/
09:11	hyPiRion	robertstuttaford: I have the same issue. With emacs, that is.
09:12	robertstuttaford	i'm sure emacs is awesome. so many folks can't be wrong. but getting it all set up and comfy seems daunting. fonts, colours, getting the damn thing to properly fullscreen on osx, etc.
09:13	kaoD	robertstuttaford: it looks harder than it is
09:13	robertstuttaford	haha oh dear
09:13	kaoD	you just have to rub the lamp
09:13	kaoD	and the genie comes out
09:13	kaoD	and you learn all emacs hotkeys
09:13	kaoD	easy-peasy
09:13	Fossi	i'm not gonna rub stallman's lamp
09:14	uvtc	robertstuttaford, hyPiRion : this might help: http://www.unexpected-vortices.com/clojure/10-minute-emacs-for-clojure.html
09:14	kaoD	Fossi: I'm sure he's disappointed :(
09:14	hyPiRion	btw, http://mrozekma.com/editor-learning-curve.png
09:14	robertstuttaford	woo, thanks uvtc
09:14	Fossi	gotta love the guy, but too much is too much :>
09:14	hyPiRion	uvtc: thanks
09:14	kaoD	btw, he's been in spain recently for a conference
09:14	uvtc	yw. Hope it's useful to you.
09:15	kaoD	and he had to leave the conference and go to the hospital
09:15	clgv	robertstuttaford: you are using the leiningen plugin already?
09:15	kaoD	an ambulance came
09:15	mdeboard	robertstuttaford: Yes setting up emacs to be the flexible, powerful editor that you can feel comfortable in is indeed a time investment, but very worth it.
09:15	robertstuttaford	clgv: i followed cemerick's screencast
09:15	Fossi	read that on /.
09:15	clgv	robertstuttaford: I am still waiting for a release before I use it in production
09:15	robertstuttaford	it said, install this plugin, so i did :)
09:16	robertstuttaford	i guess i'm paying the price, now
09:16	hyPiRion	clgv: leiningen plugin for eclipse?
09:16	clgv	hyPiRion: yes
09:17	hyPiRion	clgv: Huh, didn't knew it existed. But then again, I'm still stuck in 1.2.
09:18	duck1123	Emacs is a lot easier now that it was in years past, package-install makes all the difference
09:18	hyPiRion	I suppose I'll just go straight to emacs though - no need to slow productivity even more.
09:18	clgv	robertstuttaford: you should report that issue. it's still alpha/beta at this stage.
09:19	michaelr`	the general emacs experience is terrible, i've tried using it a couple of times but i just can't make it
09:19	robertstuttaford	mudphone was kind enough to share this https://github.com/mudphone/clojure_basics/blob/master/emacs_clojure_setup_notes.txt
09:19	michaelr`	currently using Sublime Text to edit clojure
09:20	robertstuttaford	is there an emacs rainbow-parens addon?
09:20	robertstuttaford	i love this about ccw
09:20	kaoD	michaelr`: did you try the emacs tutorial?
09:21	kaoD	robertstuttaford: yes, there are rainbow parens
09:21	duck1123	even better, there's paredit
09:21	kaoD	I had a harder time getting emacs 24 than using it tbh
09:21	kaoD	I only had 23 in the repos
09:22	robertstuttaford	paredit in ccw is also awesome
09:22	kaoD	robertstuttaford: so you use CCW? how the hell do I start app's -main?
09:22	kaoD	I seem to only be able to run the REPL
09:22	kaoD	(which is actually why I left CCW)
09:23	kaoD	(besides zero Lein support)
09:23	clgv	kaoD: start the repl in its namespace and type (-main) ;)
09:23	uvtc	duck1123, I haven't yet used any sort of Emacs package-install. Just apt-get install emacs emacs-goodies-el, and then manual set-up of my config file. Maybe the pkg installer is more useful outside of GNU/Linux?
09:23	duck1123	My experience with CCW has been "This would be great if I weren't already using emacs"
09:24	robertstuttaford	kaoD: use yes. until it broke an hour ago
09:24	duck1123	uvtc: I think it's built into 24 or 23 if you have the starter kit. (also known as ELPA)
09:24	robertstuttaford	got to taste the editor <> repl koolaid.
09:24	kaoD	clgv: seems too complicated for a fucking IDE
09:24	kaoD	I just want my program to run
09:24	uvtc	robertstuttaford, maybe this: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/RainbowDelimiters ?
09:24	kaoD	if you can't give me that, then, what the hell, I'll switch to Emacs
09:25	robertstuttaford	awesome uvtc!
09:25	duck1123	kaoD: Can't you set up something with lein run and eclipse's launchers?
09:25	clgv	kaoD: dont know if emacs explicitel suports running some -main function
09:25	uvtc	robertstuttaford, emacswiki.org is pretty much galactic central for all Emacs info. :)
09:25	robertstuttaford	i guess emacs and lein play nicely?
09:25	clgv	duck1123: good point
09:25	kaoD	clgv: but it's got a good lein plugin, which supports "lein run"
09:25	robertstuttaford	for instance, i'm now using lein ring server-headless
09:26	kaoD	duck1123: yep, you can hack it but it feels very unnatural
09:26	duck1123	robertstuttaford: There's the elein package, but I never use it
09:27	kaoD	and, what the hell, it was the perfect excuse to try emacs
09:27	clgv	kaoD: honestly, I only use the -main function when I have a jar. otherwise I'll be using concrete functions I am developing almost all the time
09:27	uvtc	duck1123, thanks. Will read up on ELPA.
09:27	clgv	kaoD: choose the environment that suits you ^^
09:27	robertstuttaford	the main thing is being able to start a ring server and be able to interact with it via repl, and have that repl be nicely integrated with my editor so i can evaluate forms and so forth
09:27	robertstuttaford	if i can do all of that within emacs, i'm happy
09:27	kaoD	clgv: yeah, I usually do incremental development too
09:28	kaoD	but it just gets annoying when the IDE gets in the way
09:28	duck1123	I would highly suggest getting emacs starter kit (even if you're not a starter) it has much better defaults and makes it a better experience
09:28	kaoD	it should be making my life easier, right?
09:28	kaoD	robertstuttaford: you can do that using SLIME
09:28	kaoD	Lein starts a REPL (nREPL, IIRC) and then you jack into it using SLIME
09:28	kaoD	et voila, full REPL in your running project
09:28	robertstuttaford	awesome
09:29	uvtc	duck1123, you mean this <https://github.com/technomancy/emacs-starter-kit/>?
09:29	duck1123	What I do is run a terminal and run 'lein swank' and then in emacs: M-x slime-connect
09:30	duck1123	uvtc: yes, but be careful, there's two versions if you have 24 or earlier
09:30	robertstuttaford	duck1123: do i need lein plugins for that?
09:30	duck1123	robertstuttaford: to do that, all you need is the swank repl package
09:30	kaoD	duck1123: isn't M-x slime-jack-in the same?
09:31	kaoD	and shorter
09:31	kaoD	and requires no shell
09:31	robertstuttaford	so i'm going to install emacs 24, emacs-starter-kit, and swank-clojure
09:31	kaoD	(which speeds up my workflow)
09:31	robertstuttaford	https://github.com/technomancy/swank-clojure
09:31	kaoD	robertstuttaford: for some reason I had trouble using ESK
09:31	duck1123	slime-jack-in also starts the slime, In my workflow I have a server running that I connect to, so jack-in isn't useful to me
09:31	robertstuttaford	and https://github.com/technomancy/clojure-mode
09:31	echo-area	Is there a non-reflective way of getting length of an array in Clojure?
09:32	kaoD	duck1123: oh, I see
09:32	kaoD	echo-area: .length?
09:32	robertstuttaford	uvtc: the keyboard shortcut list on that link you sent is great
09:33	echo-area	,(let [v (make-array Integer/TYPE 3)] (.length v))
09:33	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching field found: length for class [I>
09:33	echo-area	kaoD: This won't work
09:33	echo-area	I find that only (count array) works, but it's using reflection
09:34	clgv	echo-area: it is?
09:34	echo-area	clgv: It is for array, isn't it?
09:35	uvtc	robertstuttaford, thanks. I put in what I thought was most useful. Also, M-n and M-p are my own doing (maybe I missed something, but I don't understand why Emacs doesn't come stock with key bindings for scrolling the window up and down).
09:35	echo-area	clgv: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/RT.java#L522
09:36	uvtc	robertstuttaford, Also, note that that page doesn't cover the setup described by duck1123 (regarding swank). I haven't tried that myself yet. :)
09:36	clgv	,(let [v (make-array Integer/TYPE 3)] (Array/getLength v))
09:36	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: No such namespace: Array, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
09:36	kaoD	uvtc: what do you mean? C-v and M-v let you scroll down and up
09:36	uvtc	kaoD, No, I mean up-by-line and down-by-line, not -by-page.
09:37	clgv	,(let [v (make-array Integer/TYPE 3)] (java.util.Array/getLength v))
09:37	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: java.util.Array>
09:37	kaoD	there is too
09:37	echo-area	,(let [v (make-array Integer/TYPE 3)] (java.lang.reflect.Array/getLength v))
09:37	clojurebot	3
09:37	clgv	ah right
09:37	kaoD	C-n and C-p if
09:37	kaoD	IIRC
09:37	uvtc	kaoD, if?
09:37	kaoD	typo
09:37	uvtc	C-n and C-p move the cursor. I mean scrolling the window.
09:37	kaoD	C-n and C-p, period :P
09:37	echo-area	clgv: I guess that's really the only way
09:38	kaoD	oooh, I see
09:38	ldopa	uvtc: i somehow got into the habbit of navigating via C-s or C-r <string> and then C-l to center the window on the cursor
09:38	ldopa	and don't miss single-line scrolling at all
09:39	uvtc	ldopa, Yes, I do that all the time as well. (Guess I'm just picky about where the window is scrolled to.)
09:39	ldopa	heh ok
09:40	kaoD	uvtc: did you try M-<num lines> C-v?
09:40	clgv	echo-area: those arrays seem like objects in java but do not seem like real objects on jvm level
09:40	kaoD	M-1 C-v for instance
09:41	kaoD	yup, it works
09:41	kaoD	M-1 C-v scrolls one line down
09:41	uvtc	kaoD, yes (well, actually C-u 1 C-v) ... that's what I bind M-n to. :)
09:41	kaoD	it's bound by default right?
09:41	robertstuttaford	nerds, the lot of you
09:41	robertstuttaford	:)
09:41	foxdonut	and proud of it!
09:42	robertstuttaford	i say this from behind the safety of my 3 monitors
09:42	uvtc	kaoD, easier to just tap M-n and M-p than to type those prefixes though. Not sure what you mean, "it's bound by default". I added those bindings to my ~/.emacs. It's noted in http://www.unexpected-vortices.com/clojure/10-minute-emacs-for-clojure.html .
09:43	echo-area	clgv: I see that java.lang.reflect.Array.getLength() is a native method. Is array.length in Java also compiled to that?
09:43	echo-area	I don't know how to disassemble Java bytecode.
09:43	foxdonut	we're nerds, what are we going to do, whack you with a virtual terminal?
09:43	echo-area	(yet)
09:44	clgv	echo-area: try jd-gui
09:44	echo-area	Oh.
09:45	echo-area	Thanks!
09:45	duck1123	I'm sure Rich made counting arrays as fast as he could possibly make it
09:46	clgv	duck1123: probably. but the shortcut for clojure.lang.Counted wasnt there in 1.2.1 ;)
09:46	clgv	duck1123: args. maybe confused it with indexed
09:47	kaoD	uvtc: are you sure? M-<number> is mentioned as a shortcut for C-u <number> in the emacs tutorial
09:47	kaoD	oh nevermind
09:47	kaoD	I got you wrong
09:47	duck1123	of course, if you know that you're getting an array, you could probably go straight for the Array/getLength
09:47	kaoD	you meant the shortcut for one-line not for C-u
09:59	bhenry1	what do i need in my project.clj so i can (import '[org.bson.types ObjectId])
10:00	duck1123	[org.mongodb/bson "2.7.3"]
10:00	bhenry	thanks
10:01	duck1123	Although you'll probably want the full mongo driver and/or a good clojure library for it
10:03	robertstuttaford	is it bad if emacs 24 crashes when i clojure-jack-in the first time? :-(
10:03	bhenry	duck1123: just grabbed karras
10:09	duck1123	bhenry: I like karras because it gives me back all my entities as records. I can then do neat things with them from there. There are a couple of other good ones as well. (congomongo and another one)
10:11	bhenry	duck1123: karras is the shiz
10:11	pandeiro	duck1123: what can you do with those records, if u dont mind my curiosity.. i dont tend to use them
10:12	ache	robertstuttaford: what OS are you on?
10:12	ejackson	pandeiro: its a typed map
10:13	ache	robertstuttaford: and does it crash on only the first time?
10:13	pandeiro	ejackson: i get the concept but i don't think to use them, maybe b/c of limited background using strongly typed langs?
10:13	robertstuttaford	ache: osx. i rebooted emacs and tried again, and it worked this time
10:13	robertstuttaford	it went nuts compiling something
10:13	ache	do you think it's fine now?
10:13	ejackson	pandeiro: it allows you to have a map participate in Protocols, so you get function dispatch on its type
10:13	robertstuttaford	seems that way. repl starts up
10:13	duck1123	pandeiro: mostly, I use them in multi-methods where I dispatch on type
10:14	duck1123	When I started writing this part, Protocols weren't out yet, and I'm dispatching on more than just the type
10:15	ache	welcome to emacs. :) i map the most common keystrokes to the f1 f2 etc buttons to avoid key combinations
10:16	pandeiro	i see, that's the main draw then, dispatching on type
10:17	pandeiro	coming from a more js background i dont think to use multimethods as much as multiple arity fns
10:17	duck1123	I think I hit a point where I started using multimethods too much, but it works well for me
10:23	robertstuttaford	got emacs 24 up with starter-kit, starter-kit-lisp, clojure-mode and clojure-swank
10:23	robertstuttaford	let the learning begin
10:25	ache	robertstuttaford: make sure you have paredit :)
10:25	ejackson	and ibuprofen
10:25	robertstuttaford	how do i confirm that i do?
10:25	duck1123	M-x package-list-packages
10:25	robertstuttaford	oh i see it on the line
10:25	robertstuttaford	(Clojure Paredit Slime Fill)
10:25	robertstuttaford	ejackson: -grin-
10:26	ache	robertstuttaford: also you can run erc and then be on #clojure in the same emacs window
10:27	robertstuttaford	i have 3 monitors. you guys are off on the left. emacs fills the middle one
10:28	duck1123	robertstuttaford: C-x 5 2 -- emacs on all the monitors
10:28	rhc	while we're talking about emacs, how the hell do a permanently turn off hl-line-mode or change the color? i tried adding (hl-line-mode -1) to my .emacs.d/init.el and still loads up on startup
10:28	ache	robertstuttaford: ah. you guys are off to the right because my employer blocks irc and i'm ssh-ing for this
10:30	jweiss	i notice that the difference in compile time of my main namespace is huge, depending on if i do clojure-jack-in in emacs, and then compile the main class in emacs. versus 'lein compile' (which says it is only compiling that one namespace) - lein takes 10x longer.
10:33	duck1123	jweiss: even though it only says the one, it still compiles all the required namespaces. How are you compiling that main class in emacs?
10:34	jweiss	duck1123: C-c C-k
10:34	jweiss	which must also compile all the req'd ns's
10:34	jweiss	or does it?
10:34	jweiss	i would have thought so
10:35	jweiss	i don't see how you can compile any ns without first compiling the deps.
10:36	jweiss	the jack-in process is slow, which makes me wonder if it's compiling. although it doesn't seem to complain if there are compile problems.
10:36	jweiss	so that made me think it wasn't.
10:37	ache	jweiss: I think in emacs the first compile does do all the dependencies
10:37	ache	jweiss: and thereafter it only has to re-def the things in the current buffer
10:37	ache	or not "has to" but "only does"
10:38	jweiss	ache: yeah, but even the first compile in emacs is way faster than "lein compile". lein takes about 30 seconds. emacs takes about 2.
10:38	ache	so i think if you changed other buffers and saved them, but ran the compile from one buffer, compile only does that one buffer... that's my guess
10:38	ache	jweiss: interesting. my first compile in emacs is slower than the later ones
10:38	duck1123	emacs is loading / requiring that namespace, but it's not doing a full AOT compile
10:38	jweiss	ache: that's true for me too, the 2nd compile in emacs is a fraction of a second
10:39	rhc	30 seconds? usually my M-x clojure-jack-in takes about 2-3 seconds
10:39	jweiss	duck1123: ok, can i get leiningen to run my main namespace without AOT'ing it? it doesn't seem to want to do that.
10:40	duck1123	jweiss: you don't need to AOT to use lein run
10:40	duck1123	but you do if you want an executable jar
10:40	jweiss	duck1123: yes i do. it will error out with classnotfound (on my main namespace)
10:40	jweiss	if i don't run lein compile first.
10:40	jweiss	maybe i'm doing something wrong
10:41	jweiss	but if i do lein clean, run it will not work
10:41	jweiss	if i do lein clean, compile, run it works.
10:41	jweiss	let me test that again to make sure
10:41	duck1123	I was having that problem for a while.
10:43	jweiss	ok i'm lying, i had that error but lein clean, run does run it (albeit after 30+ seconds of doing something that appears to be compiling )
10:44	jweiss	and in fact my classes dir does have all the class files compiled
10:45	jweiss	everything has to be compiled one way or another. what is the difference with AOT?
10:46	clgv	jweiss: no it does not
10:46	clgv	jweiss: "running" only compiles to files if you bind/set compile-files to true
10:46	clgv	jweiss: you can try that in a repl
10:46	jweiss	clgv: ok so it's all normally done in-memory, which is what i want when i do "lein run". but that is not what i get. i get a classes/ dir full of compiled classes for my whole codebase.
10:47	ejackson	jweiss: you don't have a stray :aot :all in your project.clj maybe ?
10:47	clgv	jweiss: thats probably because you specified a namespace containing a -main method
10:47	jweiss	clgv: yup, how else can i do lein run?
10:48	clgv	jweiss: the problem is that everything that is used or required in the namespace of main will get compiled even transitively
10:48	jweiss	will it behave differently in terms of compiling, if i leave it off in project.clj and do lein run -m ...?
10:48	jweiss	clgv: yeah, that appears to be what is happening.
10:48	technomancy	jweiss: you can do :main ^:skip-aot whatever.ns
10:49	technomancy	or -m
10:49	clgv	jweiss: you can try to make a minimal -main method which just does (require 'real-main) (eval `(real-main/-main ~@args))
10:50	jweiss	clgv: that's kinda ugly :)
10:50	clgv	yeah it is
10:50	jweiss	i'll try technomancy's suggestion first
10:50	clgv	:skip-aot works in leiningen 1.7.1?
10:53	jweiss	clgv: technomancy: -m does not help, still AOT's everything
10:54	michaelr`	btw, i think i have the same problem with a noir website and it compiles for 5-7 minutes every time i 'lein run'
10:54	clgv	you can also use lein repl^^
10:54	michaelr`	i tried -m and skip-aot and it didn't help
10:54	duck1123	I think my record was 15+ minutes for a clean, compile
10:54	clgv	duck1123: with pre 1.7?
10:55	jweiss	:main ^:skip-aot my.ns does not work either.
10:55	clgv	jweiss: I guess thats for lein2
10:55	kaoD	maybe you're using something that requires AOT?
10:55	jweiss	clgv: the sample for v1 shows it in the doc
10:55	clgv	oh
10:55	jweiss	https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/master/sample.project.clj#L90
10:56	jweiss	kaoD: like what? it doesn't get aot'd when i use slime.
10:56	clgv	jweiss: but clojure 1.2 didnt support ^:kw to ^{:kw true} I thought?
10:57	jweiss	clgv: i'm not sure what lein uses?
10:57	jweiss	is it 1.2?
10:57	clgv	lein 1.7.1 should be using 1.2.1
10:57	jweiss	i'll try the old style
10:58	jweiss	(inc clgv)
10:58	lazybot	⇒ 2
10:58	jweiss	thanks! that did it :)
10:58	michaelr`	jweiss: what did you do?
10:59	jweiss	:main ^{:skip-aot true} my.main.ns
10:59	jweiss	then lein run
10:59	jweiss	did not write 1000 classfiles, just ran it :)
10:59	michaelr`	oh
10:59	michaelr`	doesn't work here
10:59	technomancy	jweiss: that's sample.project.clj on the master branch, not the 1.x branch
10:59	technomancy	by "use -m" I mean do that instead of putting :main in project.clj
11:00	jweiss	technomancy: i see, i didn't realize master was now 2.0
11:00	jweiss	last i looked, it wasn't
11:01	clgv	master usually is the snapshot/development version of clojure projects on github
11:01	jweiss	or maybe i thought it wasn't because the readme still referenced 2.0 as beta
11:01	clgv	afair^^
11:01	jweiss	but i guess that was a bad assumption on my part.
11:02	jweiss	the readme on master, i mean
11:04	Dvyjones	Any idea why line 6 in test.clj fails? https://gist.github.com/e6d3fd431b7699971900
11:04	duck1123	ok, a clean compile of my project took 6minutes (included updating deps)
11:04	Dvyjones	This is the error I get: Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: context-io.api.ApiContext
11:06	solussd	with korma I'm getting cyclic load errors because my model namespaces are co-dependent- seems like this would be a problem in just about any database driven app using korma with relationships between entities housed in different namespaces. Are we suppose to keep our entire model in one namespace?
11:07	TimMc	Dvyjones: What folder is api.clj in?
11:07	TimMc	(it should have an underscore)
11:07	TimMc	Dvyjones: Oh... and that should be :import, not import
11:07	Dvyjones	TimMc: :import gives the same error.
11:08	Dvyjones	TimMc: Also, the api.clj file is in src/context_io/api.clj. The test.clj file is actually in test/context_io/test/api.clj and the ns is actually context-io.test.api. I can call functions from context-io.api with no problems, if I remove the import.
11:09	kaoD	it's clojure namespace
11:09	kaoD	shouldn't it be require then?
11:09	kaoD	import is for java classes amirite?
11:09	TimMc	kaoD: defrecords produce classes, not namespaces
11:10	duck1123	solussd: It sometimes takes careful planning to avoid that, but it is possible
11:10	kaoD	TimMc: I should've opened the code
11:10	TimMc	That would help. :-P
11:11	Dvyjones	TimMc: All of the code is here: https://github.com/dvyjones/context-io-clj, but without the :import stuff, since that's what I'm adding now.
11:11	solussd	duck1123: my problem is i have twqo models entities, call them 'a' and 'b' in there own namespaces that refer to each other in a defentity form. is there a solution other than having them share a namespace?
11:12	duck1123	solussd: I ended up putting all my entities in 1 ns, then I have model namespaces that refer to them, and then a higher level namespace that refers to those
11:12	duck1123	it can sometimes be a pain
11:13	solussd	duck1123: interesting, thanks
11:13	duck1123	solussd: ref https://github.com/duck1123/jiksnu/blob/master/src/jiksnu/model.clj
11:27	TimMc	Dvyjones: Well, I can certainly reproduce that.
11:33	TimMc	Dvyjones: Oh, ugh -- it's the underscores.
11:33	TimMc	Or lack thereof.
11:33	TimMc	Dvyjones: (:import context_io.api.ApiContext)
11:35	djue2012	Hi, I'm having trouble with lein install plugin on windows (7 x64)
11:36	TimMc	WHat version of lein?
11:36	djue2012	1.7.1
11:36	djue2012	java 1.6.0_21
11:37	djue2012	i'm running as admin, but the stack trace is showing Caused by: java.io.IOException: Couldn't delete C:\Users\djue\AppData\Local\Temp\lein-14755f9c-f50e-451f-af04-0c3561761258\lib\cdt-1.2.6.2.jar
11:37	djue2012	it's like it doesn't have permissions to delete the files or something
11:37	TimMc	The file is probably in use. Windows won't let you delete those.
11:37	djue2012	hmmmm
11:38	djue2012	maybe my virus scanner is holding onto it and lein is too fast :)
11:38	TimMc	Why run it as admin? It'll work fine in non-privileged mode.
11:39	djue2012	i tried in non priv and it wasn't working
11:39	djue2012	i thought using runas on the cmd line might help
11:39	djue2012	no difference, same error
11:40	djue2012	lemme try disabling any rt virus scanner stuff
11:43	djue2012	ah i see
11:43	djue2012	it's saying the file is open in java.exe
11:43	djue2012	the cdt-1.2.6.2.jar
11:47	djue2012	hehe
11:47	nDuff	(although IIRC, NTFS added support for unlinked inodes, so it's just a backwards-compatibility piece of silliness that the API functions don't allow it still)
11:53	djue2012	oh well. I updated an existing open ticket. https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/issues/252
11:53	Dvyjones	TimMc: That worked. Thanks!
11:54	clgv	is there a midje checker to check a value to be in a given domain?
11:54	djue2012	thanks tim and nDuff
11:55	clgv	e.g. => (just [...G... (in-domain #{'e1 'e2 'e3})])
11:56	duck1123	clgv: checking against the raw set doesn't do it?
11:56	clgv	duck1123: how would you write that? I tried several versions
11:57	duck1123	=> #{'e1 'e2 'e3} or => #(#{'e1 'e2 'e3} %)
11:58	clgv	dont forget the vector^^
11:58	clgv	with the vector the first does not work
11:59	clgv	the second works but is not that readable..
12:00	duck1123	is the left-hand side a single value?
12:01	clgv	a single function call, yes
12:01	clgv	or do you mean ...G... ?
12:01	duck1123	I mean, is it returning a single symbol in this case? I don't get what you mean about the vector
12:02	clgv	the function returns a vector like [...G... ...e...] but ...e... has to be from a given set of values
12:03	duck1123	(partial every #{'e1 'e2 'e3}) perhaps?
12:03	clgv	probably not: ##((partial every #{'e1 'e2 'e3}) 'e1)
12:03	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: every in this context
12:03	clgv	&((partial every? #{'e1 'e2 'e3}) 'e1)
12:03	lazybot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: clojure.lang.Symbol
12:05	duck1123	&((partial every? #{'e1 'e2 'e3}) ['e1 'e3])
12:05	lazybot	⇒ true
12:05	clgv	well [...G... #(#{'e1 'e2 'e3} %)] works. but I thought there would be something readable built in
12:08	duck1123	if you're using the latest midje, you could probably build something straightforward using every-checker
12:10	clgv	duck1123: not really. ...G... in the first position is no sequence and something different from the second position where the domain is limited
12:10	devn	Just got my copy of Let Over Lambda
12:10	devn	color me excited
12:11	clgv	gotta go. see ya
12:12	espeed	I'm in the process of learning macros, and I'm getting a NullPointerException when trying to use macroexpand-1 (https://gist.github.com/2702934)
12:17	uvtc	Is standard procedure for getting Emacs 24 on Ubuntu/other-buntus pretty much to add-apt-repository ppa:cassou/emacs?
12:19	hdevalence	How do I add a local git repository as a lein dependency?
12:21	kaoD	uvtc: that's how I did it
12:22	kaoD	add-apt-repository ppa:cassou/emacs -> apt-get install emacs-snapshot emacs-snapshot-gtk
12:23	uvtc	kaoD, Thanks. I'm looking at technomancy's emacs-starter-git and thinking maybe it's time. :)
12:23	kaoD	it's cool once you get it
12:23	kaoD	just make sure you follow the basic emacs tutorial
12:23	kaoD	even before messing with clj
12:25	uvtc	kaoD, I know basic Emacs. Just haven't ever used swank (nor the new Emacs package management)
12:26	uvtc	kaoD, There's a fair number of moving parts. :)
12:27	technomancy	the starter kit is just fixing some bad defaults in Emacs
12:27	technomancy	if you already know how to customize Emacs you can get all the benefit just from taking a look at what it does and trying out some of the features it enables for yourself
12:30	espeed	I'm in the process of learning macros, and I'm getting a NullPointerException when trying to use macroexpand-1 (see http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10604875/why-am-i-getting-a-nullpointerexception-when-executing-macroexpand-1-on-this-clo)
12:36	uvtc	technomancy, I don't know much elisp. It would be helpful if there were a wiki page at the emacs-starter-kit github page that simply listed what you get when you `M-x package-install starter-kit`.
12:37	technomancy	uvtc: yeah, that's a good idea. the starter kit is kind of in hibernation right now though.
12:37	uvtc	technomancy, hm. Why is it currently in hibernation mode?
12:38	technomancy	uvtc: because it's more or less done
12:39	technomancy	in a perfect world, the starter kit wouldn't exist; Emacs would just work better out of the box
12:44	dnolen	espeed: config is not a map at that point in the macro - it's just a symbol.
12:47	espeed	dnolen: thanks. What should I be doing instead?
12:48	dnolen	espeed: untested, did you try `((ns-resolve (:ns config) 'create-vertex) config data) ?
12:51	jappy123	does ^ints serve as a type hint for single and multi-dimension int arrays? or are they differenciated? perhaps it doesn't care about the inner arrays?
12:51	clojure-newcomer	Hi guys, newcomer to Clojure here, looking for a bit of help with a very basic task
12:52	TimMc	espeed: As someone else answered on SO... maybe you just need a function, not a macro?
12:53	uvtc	Hi clojure-newcomer. You can just ask. :)
12:53	clojure-newcomer	uvtc: Hi, will do
12:53	clojure-newcomer	I am trying to loop over return from file-seq and print every file name, sample at : http://pastebin.com/t6Fe575J
12:54	espeed	I was trying to avoid repeated calls to (ns-resolve) -- should I not be concerned with that?
12:54	clojure-newcomer	while the commented out line prints the entire collection happily… the line above it does not seem to do what I am trying to do
12:56	OwenOu	hi guys, what's the state of the art of building db backed web app in clojure? noir and korma?
12:58	dakrone	clojure-newcomer: (for ...) is lazy, so that may be your problem, what are you wanting to do that it's not doing?
12:58	uvtc	clojure-newcomer, `for` is for creating new lists. Maybe you want do-seq?
12:58	babilen	clojure-newcomer: You want doseq in lieu of for there (you want to force side-effects) -- for is lazy.
12:59	clojure-newcomer	thanks guys, appreciate it, I'll give it a go
12:59	technomancy	OwenOu: more or less
13:00	technomancy	assuming you want a relational DB
13:00	OwenOu	technomancy: if you are building a web app, what would be your tech stack? any suggestion would be appreciated
13:01	espeed	TimMc: Thanks -- I see now.
13:01	technomancy	OwenOu: there's no one-size-fits-all solution
13:01	technomancy	for databases especially
13:02	technomancy	although postgres comes pretty close if you know you'll never outgrow a single node now that you can have schemaless tables
13:04	technomancy	been meaning to take a closer look at postgres with hstore
13:04	duck1123	as far as db access goes, korma is a big load of awesome
13:05	technomancy	I am not the right person to comment on web apps though
13:06	jappy123	is the best I can do for a type hint at multidimensional int arrays ^ints? will this result in reflection still being done on a java method call that accepts a two dimensional int array
13:06	hiredman	jappy123: ^ints is an array of ints, but arrays on the jvm are one dimensional, so your "multidimensional" array is really an array of arrays
13:07	dnolen	jappy123: if you call class on your multidimensional primitive array it'll give you a class string you can use for type hinting.
13:08	TimMc	&(class (into-array [(into-array Integer/TYPE [])])) ;; jappy123
13:08	lazybot	⇒ [[I
13:08	dnolen	so ^"[[I" will work
13:08	jappy123	perfect TY!
13:08	TimMc	&(.getCanonicalName (into-array [(into-array Integer/TYPE [])]))
13:08	lazybot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching field found: getCanonicalName for class [[I
13:08	TimMc	&(.getCanonicalName (class (into-array [(into-array Integer/TYPE [])])))
13:08	lazybot	⇒ "int[][]"
13:09	TimMc	^ the "human-readable" version
13:09	duck1123	but you can't type hint with that, can you?
13:10	TimMc	Nah.
13:11	dgrnbrg	Is there a way to get a lazy seq of a string split on a character?
13:13	hyPiRion	what do you mean by split on a character?
13:13	hyPiRion	##(re-seq #"c" "acdcb")
13:13	lazybot	⇒ ("c" "c")
13:13	hyPiRion	er.
13:14	hyPiRion	&(re-seq #"[^c]*" "acdcb") should work
13:14	lazybot	⇒ ("a" "" "d" "" "b" "")
13:14	hyPiRion	+ then. I hate regex.
13:15	hyPiRion	&(re-seq #"[^c]+" "acdcb")
13:15	lazybot	⇒ ("a" "d" "b")
13:16	dgrnbrg	hyPiRion: I see, thanks--I was using clojure.string/split, which is eager
13:32	hyPiRion	Is it possible to destructure a hash set? e.g. (let [[a b] #{:c :d}] do-stuff)
13:39	progo	you could seq it first... But sets have no order so you don't know what you're getting
13:46	mmarczyk	dnolen: ping
13:51	TimMc	dgrnbrg: Do you want empty substrings? e.g. split "accb" on \c
13:52	dnolen	mmarczyk: pong
13:52	mmarczyk	dnolen: hi
13:52	mmarczyk	dnolen: I've posted a patch for cljs-255 and will post one for 256 in a moment
13:53	mmarczyk	dnolen: if only nil were not counted -- but alas, in Clojure (nth nil whatever) => nil, which looks like a bug, but...
13:54	dnolen	mmarczyk: I'm skeptical about some of the extend-type's around nil
13:54	mmarczyk	dnolen: my gut feeling is that IIndexed should be removed
13:54	dnolen	mmarczyk: I'm not against moving the nil handling into the relevant fns.
13:54	mmarczyk	dnolen: then the linear traversal helper would be used and throw -- correctly, IMO
13:54	mmarczyk	dnolen: but that's not how it is in Clojure
13:55	mmarczyk	dnolen: alternative solution -- handle nil explicitly in nth with a (when (coercive-not= nil ...) ...)
13:55	dnolen	mmarczyk: that's what I'm suggesting.
13:55	mmarczyk	dnolen: oh right
13:55	mmarczyk	dnolen: ok, so I'll do that and 256 will magically go away
13:55	dnolen	mmarczyk: a lot of the extend-types are there for the world prior to a fast satisfies and coercive-not=
13:56	mmarczyk	dnolen: ...and in the present brave new world should retire peacefully :-)
13:56	dnolen	mmarczyk: I think so, it also speeds up nil handling.
13:56	mmarczyk	dnolen: I've been thinking about proto method inlining, btw -- regrettably I'm seriously overloaded this week
13:57	dnolen	mmarczyk: having to go through protocols to handle nil stinks.
13:57	dnolen	mmarczyk: np
13:57	mmarczyk	dnolen: I've been thinking though
13:57	mmarczyk	dnolen: about possibly trasmitting info from satisfies? "upwards" / "outwards"
13:57	mmarczyk	dnolen: or onwards, I guess
13:57	dnolen	mmarczyk: well it doesn't stink, it keeps the code cleaner - but you get stuff which doesn't make sense to me - (indexed? nil) => true, (counted? nil ) => true
13:57	mmarczyk	dnolen: so that if we say (satisfies? IFoo bar) in if's test, then the branches know what we found out
13:58	mmarczyk	dnolen: precisely
13:59	mmarczyk	dnolen: I can live with counted semantically -- the current linear helper for count actually assumes that, though I guess that should change maybe? -- but indexed makes no sense to me
13:59	mmarczyk	dnolen: in fact, why is (nth nil 5) nil rather than an error?
13:59	mmarczyk	dnolen: (but that's what happens in Clojure too)
14:00	dnolen	mmarczyk: yeah we shouldn't stray from Clojure behavior.
14:01	dnolen	mmarczyk: re: transmitting satisfies? information. If we're going to handle that I think it should be more deeply integrated in the compiler.
14:01	mmarczyk	dnolen: oh, definitely
14:01	dnolen	mmarczyk: but before we do that we should see if inlining results in any perf win at all.
14:02	dnolen	mmarczyk: but yes basically with in the true branch we can tag the symbol with whatever protocol it satisfies, and call the protocol method directly.
14:03	mmarczyk	dnolen: would be nice if that information got propagated as far as possible
14:03	rmac	Hi guys, is there a library for handling the security implications of using Clojure as a configuration format, or guides to help out if I want to go down that route ?
14:04	dnolen	mmarczyk: that information could flow in the usual way across binding forms.
14:04	TimMc	rmac: I think just binding read-eval to false is sufficient.
14:05	TimMc	rmac: Or are you looking to have scripting available?
14:05	mmarczyk	dnolen: right
14:05	dnolen	mmarczyk: so 255 ready to go?
14:05	mmarczyk	dnolen: yes
14:05	rmac	TimMc: no, I don't need scripting… to start just read only config
14:05	mmarczyk	dnolen: btw, I don't suppose you'll be going to EuroClojure?
14:06	rmac	TimMc: are there any good examples you would point to ?
14:06	dnolen	mmarczyk: don't think so
14:06	TimMc	rmac: Leiningen's project.clj, sort of.
14:07	mmarczyk	dnolen: ah, that's a shame
14:07	TimMc	defproject is a macro, but you could just allow a map of stuff.
14:07	mmarczyk	dnolen: some other time.
14:08	rmac	TimMc: I saw a presentation recently, about Clojure being used in a bank, they ended up using RDF for config instead due to security worries about the eval possibilities with Clojure config
14:08	eggsby	lol
14:09	hyPiRion	Harr. Is there a lazy equivalent of group-by in Clojure?
14:09	TimMc	rmac: Did they have concerns other than read-eval?
14:09	hyPiRion	Turns out that creating two lazy seqs out from a single one is not only messy, but rather hard without looping through the sequence twice.
14:10	hyPiRion	;(
14:10	rmac	TimMc: unsure of the specifics… just a fear generally of 'Turing-complete' protocols and file formats being used for config
14:10	TimMc	,```````````foo will error out, but that's all I can think of
14:10	dnolen	mmarczyk: sounds like a lot of fun!
14:10	dnolen	mmarczyk: 255 fixed
14:10	clojurebot	Execution Timed Out
14:10	mmarczyk	dnolen: yes, I'm really looking forward to it :-)
14:11	mmarczyk	dnolen: writing commit message for 256 now
14:12	TimMc	hyPiRion: The outer data structure is a map, so you'd have to use a lazy map...
14:14	amalloy	hyperboreean: it's not really possible to do lazily in an eager, immutable language
14:15	mmarczyk	dnolen: patch posted on 256
14:19	dnolen	mmarczyk: applied
14:20	mmarczyk	dnolen: cool
14:29	neotyk	hello everyone!
14:29	hyPiRion	Hello
14:32	neotyk	dnolen: could you look at https://github.com/happyhacking-nl/clojurescript/commit/77521c6a431c1857fc1882b897858b7e48e5ac49 in context of CLJS-204 ?
14:34	dnolen	neotyk: -compareTo -> -compare
14:34	dnolen	neotyk: also don't use list comprehension
14:34	dnolen	neotyk: comparison is performance sensitive
14:35	dnolen	neotyk: if you do that feel free to attach a patch to 204
14:35	neotyk	dnolen: what should I use there then?
14:35	dnolen	neotyk: loop/recur probably
14:35	neotyk	dnolen: ack
14:35	dnolen	neotyk: lazy sequences are insanely slow in CLJS - even when get to chunked seqs they aren't going to beat loop/recur
14:35	neotyk	dnolen: also, should I add all collections to participate in IComparable?
14:36	dnolen	neotyk: I don't know, I haven't look closely at 204, what does Clojure do?
14:36	neotyk	dnolen: it relies on Comparable of Java
14:37	dnolen	neotyk: but for which collections? all of them?
14:37	amalloy	neotyk: i don't think you should; ISeqs aren't comparable in clojure
14:37	mmarczyk	IComparable, great :-)
14:37	amalloy	&(compare (range 3) (range 3))
14:37	lazybot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.LazySeq cannot be cast to java.lang.Comparable
14:38	mmarczyk	neotyk: maps and sets are not comparable in Clojure
14:38	neotyk	&(compare [1 2] [1 1])
14:38	lazybot	⇒ 1
14:38	dnolen	&(compare (int-array [1 2]) (int-array [1 1]))
14:38	lazybot	java.lang.ClassCastException: [I cannot be cast to java.lang.Comparable
14:38	neotyk	mmarczyk: so it is vectors only?
14:39	neotyk	mmarczyk: well, PersistentVectors :-)
14:39	mmarczyk	neotyk: well, symbols and keywords seem to have impls
14:40	amalloy	neotyk: the clojure classes which implement Comparable are: vector, keyword, ref (really?), ratio, and symbol
14:40	mmarczyk	neotyk: so you might want to have a look at those and maybe do sth special for them in the string impl
14:40	mmarczyk	neotyk: ref
14:40	amalloy	mmarczyk: nah, string compare will just work in js, won't it?
14:41	neotyk	string is part of IComparable now
14:41	mmarczyk	amalloy: well, not necessarily
14:41	mmarczyk	amalloy: neotyk: syms/keys might deal with the namespace part and the name part separately
14:41	dnolen	mmarczyk: we already do garray/defaultCompare
14:41	dnolen	mmarczyk: so I think all we need is the (satisfies? IComparable ...) test to come before that.
14:42	neotyk	dnolen: it is implemented exactly like that
14:43	mmarczyk	dnolen: sure
14:43	amalloy	mmarczyk: i suppose it could, but (a) the natural string compare is going to do what you probably want anyway, and (b) i think all you really need is any consistent ordering; it doesn't matter much what that ordering is
14:43	dnolen	neotyk: so does garray/defaultCompare do the wrong thing with bool, string, etc?
14:43	mmarczyk	neotyk: looking at your patch now -- did you teach cljs.core/compare to use -compare when possible? I might be missing it
14:43	neotyk	dnolen: not sure, didn't test
14:44	dnolen	neotyk: you should test and possibly remove - garrya/defaultCompare probably has a lot less indirection.
14:44	neotyk	mmarczyk: yes: https://github.com/happyhacking-nl/clojurescript/commit/77521c6a431c1857fc1882b897858b7e48e5ac49#L0R917
14:44	mmarczyk	&(compare 'foo/quux 'foobar/quux)
14:44	lazybot	⇒ -3
14:45	mmarczyk	-1 in cljs currently
14:45	mmarczyk	neotyk: ok, thx!
14:46	mmarczyk	amalloy: yeah, I guess so
14:46	amalloy	neotyk: have you thought about the possibility of asymmetric comparisons across types? like (compare true 0) returning 1 and (compare 0 true) also returning something positive?
14:46	neotyk	amalloy: not at all
14:46	mmarczyk	amalloy: unless there's any need for compare to be consistent across platforms, but that's probably impossible anyway (would clash with native compare some places probably?)
14:46	dnolen	amalloy: that's not allowed in CLJS anyway
14:46	dnolen	amalloy: types must match
14:46	amalloy	dnolen: great
14:47	amalloy	dnolen: do you happen to know where the code that enforces that is? i'd be interested to take a peek
14:48	dnolen	amalloy: http://github.com/happyhacking-nl/clojurescript/commit/77521c6a431c1857fc1882b897858b7e48e5ac49#L0R919
14:48	goodieboy	what is the cleanest way to turn a map into a list?
14:48	amalloy	&(seq {1 2 3 4})
14:48	lazybot	⇒ ([1 2] [3 4])
14:48	goodieboy	amalloy: ahh ok, sorry i meant, flattened?
14:49	amalloy	&(apply concat {1 2 3 4})
14:49	lazybot	⇒ (1 2 3 4)
14:49	neotyk	why in cljs there are cljs and clojure ns?
14:49	goodieboy	amalloy: damn, that's pretty clean. thanks!
14:49	dnolen	neotyk: probably because of namespace masking problem.
14:49	dnolen	neotyk: top level ns segments can be shadowed by locals.
14:50	dnolen	mmarczyk: speaking of which, I like my latest idea for a solution to that.
14:51	neotyk	dnolen: I don't quite understand it, is there a gist that exposes this problem?
14:51	amalloy	neotyk: the cond in (defn compare ...) should probably be an if now that you've added that first clause, to avoid calling type twice on each arg
14:52	dnolen	neotyk: it's simple. (ns foo.bar) (defn baz [foo] ... everything in foo now shadowed ...)
14:52	mmarczyk	dnolen: indeed, very clean solution for locals
14:53	mmarczyk	dnolen: there's still the issue of top-level names clashing with ns names though
14:53	neotyk	amalloy: (if (types ..) (if (satisfies? ..) .. ()) (cond ..))
14:53	neotyk	amalloy: ?
14:54	amalloy	yeah, that's what i was aiming for
14:54	dnolen	mmarczyk: ?
14:54	goodieboy	what's the cleanest way to check if something is either true or false?
14:54	mmarczyk	dnolen: that's cljs-180, right?
14:55	jtoy	is this the recommended way to do opts for functions?
14:55	jtoy	(defn foo
14:55	jtoy	([] (foo "bar"))
14:55	jtoy	([s] (........)))
14:55	dnolen	mmarczyk: the locals issue yes.
14:55	dnolen	mmarczyk: not sure I follow about the top-level names clashing with ns names.
14:55	hyPiRion	goodieboy: I think (or (true? a) (false? b)) is okay?
14:55	mmarczyk	dnolen: so yeah, I like the locals solution
14:56	mmarczyk	dnolen: I'd also like to prevent foo.bar/quux from clashing with foo.bar.quux
14:56	mmarczyk	dnolen: ideally
14:56	hyPiRion	You could eventually do some sort of hackish way, like (some? #(% a) [true? false?])
14:56	hyPiRion	*some
14:57	mmarczyk	dnolen: but that is a totally different problem (in particular because it has interop implications)
14:57	goodieboy	hyPiRion: ahh yeah, some works
14:57	dnolen	mmarczyk: not sure I follow, what is foo.bar.quux?
14:57	mmarczyk	dnolen: a namespace
14:57	neotyk	goodieboy: something is always true? or false?
14:57	dnolen	mmarczyk: ah right.
14:58	goodieboy	neotyk: yes, and well, sometimes nil
14:58	goodieboy	but i only care about true or false
14:58	neotyk	$(if nil :a :b)
14:58	neotyk	#(if nil :a :b)
14:58	amalloy	&(if nil :a :b)
14:58	lazybot	⇒ :b
14:59	neotyk	goodieboy: like booleans?
14:59	goodieboy	neotyk: exactly
14:59	goodieboy	i guess i was hoping to find bool? or something in core
15:00	neotyk	&(map boolean [nil 1 '() true false])
15:00	lazybot	⇒ (false true true true false)
15:00	neotyk	nah
15:02	hyPiRion	goodieboy: Actually, more idiomatic would be ##(#{true false} 'foo)
15:02	lazybot	⇒ nil
15:02	amalloy	hyPiRion: cute, but broken
15:02	hyPiRion	er, nevermind, it will return true or false ;(
15:04	goodieboy	hyPiRion: exactly! using a set was my first thought too
15:05	gfredericks	&(contains? #{true false} 'foo)
15:05	lazybot	⇒ false
15:05	gfredericks	&(contains? #{true false} false)
15:05	lazybot	⇒ true
15:05	hyPiRion	gfredericks: good one.
15:05	gfredericks	(def bool? (partial contains? #{true false}))
15:06	goodieboy	gfredericks: contains? thanks!
15:07	mmarczyk	dnolen: do we know top-level names coming from the JS side? "goog", say?
15:12	gfredericks	alse (def bool? (some-fn true? false?))
15:16	dnolen	mmarczyk: we don't, solving real JS problems is a non-goal I think.
15:18	dwierenga	is there a a way to tell lein to load the mysql jdbc driver too? it loads clojure.java.jdbc fine but not the mysql driver
15:19	duck1123	dwierenga: add it to your dependencies
15:19	mmarczyk	dnolen: actually why not just gensym all params? let-bound locals are all gensym'd now and (let [cljs :foo] cljs.core/reduce) works fine
15:20	dnolen	mmarczyk: yucky
15:20	mmarczyk	dnolen: how come?
15:20	dnolen	mmarczyk: I'm only interested in solving inter CLJS clashes
15:20	dnolen	mmarczyk: we don't care about external libs - users can figure that out for themselves.
15:21	mmarczyk	dnolen: well, caring about them won't make things more complicated here
15:21	mmarczyk	dnolen: anyway, fn params are the only type of locals with no gensymming currently
15:21	dwierenga	duck1123: thanks but i'm not sure how. i only got clojure.java.jdbc loaded because of the instructions on the github page
15:21	mmarczyk	dnolen: only munge
15:22	dnolen	mmarczyk: only partly true
15:22	dnolen	mmarczyk: let doesn't gensym unless you reuse a binding.
15:23	dnolen	mmarczyk: if we get some robust source mapping support this may be worth pursuing - but not until then.
15:23	mmarczyk	dnolen: actually I just said #(let [asdfasdf :foo] 123) in Rhino
15:23	zakwilson	So from what I'm seeing in this clojure.core blog post, reducers.map is supposed to be parallel. That doesn't seem to be the behavior I observe when I use it on a vector.
15:23	mmarczyk	dnolen: asdfasdf is gensym'd
15:24	xeqi	dwierenga: [mysql/mysql-connector-java "5.1.6"] should work
15:24	amalloy	zakwilson: you need to use a large vector and make sure to call fold
15:24	amalloy	eg, (fold + (reducers/map inc (vec (range 1e6)))) should start up a bunch of threads
15:25	dwierenga	xeqi: just what i needed, thanks!
15:26	zakwilson	Oh, it only works if you call fold on it? I must admit to some lack of understanding.
15:27	dnolen	mmarczyk: oh yeah, you are right about let.
15:29	zakwilson	How large a collection do I need to see this?
15:29	dnolen	mmarczyk: still I think it wasn't done for a reason - to support existing JS tooling
15:30	amalloy	zakwilson: by default fold splits up into chunks of 512
15:30	amalloy	(ish)
15:30	amalloy	so a couple thousand elements would be enough to start a few threads
15:30	zakwilson	I just tried it with 5000 elements and saw only one CPU busy and no speedup over reduce/map
15:30	mmarczyk	dnolen: ?
15:30	dnolen	mmarczyk: if someone decides to use CLJS as a regular old JS lib - they get cljs.core.first(coll_4857) as the signature which is gross.
15:31	mmarczyk	dnolen: well, that someone should use mori :-)
15:31	dnolen	mmarczyk: they'll still get that signature.
15:31	zakwilson	And I do see both cores busy and a speedup using useful/pcollect.
15:31	mmarczyk	dnolen: ah, yeah, I guess
15:32	dnolen	mmarczyk: also any other target will suffer from this problem as well.
15:32	amalloy	zakwilson: i haven't seen any code yet, so i can't really help with "something doesn't work and i don't know why"
15:33	mmarczyk	dnolen: it does work though, it only looks weird
15:33	mmarczyk	dnolen: but then
15:33	dnolen	mmarczyk: in Scheme, I'm not sure anyone will want to see (nth coll-4867 i-187 not-found-101)
15:34	mmarczyk	dnolen: I guess the simple answer to my question re: our knowing about goog etc.
15:34	mmarczyk	dnolen: is that if someone intends to use a JS lib, they still need a :require
15:34	mmarczyk	dnolen: so no reason at all to be worried
15:35	mmarczyk	dnolen: or make things ugly
15:35	dnolen	mmarczyk: oh yes that too.
15:36	mmarczyk	dnolen: which means your approach is absolutely the one to take
15:36	mmarczyk	dnolen: since we don't even have to gather new info
15:37	zakwilson	amalloy: http://pastebin.com/bw4VgE1t
15:37	amalloy	well uh...repeat and take produce lazy sequences, not reducibles
15:37	amalloy	seriously, try it on a vector
15:38	zakwilson	Oh. Yes, that's a little better.
15:38	amalloy	(repeat and take can produce reducibles, but that's not implemented yet)
15:39	hiredman	"could"
15:39	amalloy	a better word choice, indeed
15:41	amalloy	(although, reducers/take does exist, and there's already a patch adding repeat)
15:42	mebaran151	hey #clojure, how do I add tool.jar to the classpath in lein2?
15:42	mebaran151	something that I can add to my profile.clj?
15:44	BAWKING	Luyt mabes fmeyer_ duck1123 Lajla mebaran151 inmist mrSpec jimduey tmciver halgari jcromartie wilkes ordnungswidrig1 Wild_Cat mye_ zx80 zxcxzc hanDerPeder daviddpark jwpalmer ystael cafesofie mbriggs dajac elliottw jcrossley3 Licenser h0bbit BeLucid_ jtoy meisterluk bradfordw hiredman aaelony arohner neotyk mprentice zane ilteris_ ambroff devth zamaterian bryancp OlegYch\|h sytch thearthur chewbranca phi
15:44	BAWKING	rsch_ iwillig Eldariof-ru rmac rodrigovieira
15:44	BAWKING	* Users on #clojure: jasonbray mishok13 c0rn S11001001 gridaphobe tensorpudding tibbe dreish carllerche perezd Borkdude gtrak` gozala juhu_chapa OwenOu scriptor AimHere jappy123 kumarshantanu brandonz aperiodic dryman cataska_ lazybot lstoll etherdev metajack rmarianski Speed` nrichards mritz jsabeaudry_ ieure ernst strmpnk_ jweiss_ Bronsa rlb cacodaemon zodiak mengu dan`b prip lopex jlf christi
15:44	BAWKING	anberg silven lobotomy rodnaph ggreg ppppaul rhc worrelsik1 cesario__ jodaro
15:44	BAWKING	* Users on #clojure: JorgeB thorwil tbatchelli djue2012 tuubow_ dnolen sorenmacbeth uvtc zuzkins mefesto gsav wkmanire ejackson xeqi jimt artefon DuoSRX jbomo goodieboy achin kovasb kschrader pcavs apwalk gtrak ssedano octagon jayunit100 ConstantineXVI Tristam pandeiro olauzon hhutch dgrnbrg ldopa pelleb nighty- ChiralSym kcin jonaskoelker enebo _KY_ luigy tscheibl jmolet dakrone gary_poster Chi
15:45	BAWKING	ron beffbernard bruges mmarczyk technomancy jhulten cola_zero Sigma Zolrath
15:45	BAWKING	* Users on #clojure: fliebel wookiehangover PeregrinePDX xmux baoist seancorfield hoeck1 timonv konr yacin jamiei puchacz rippy thickey septomin philr vsayer ejlo saint_cypher helgikrs jmatt joegallo bhenry krunaldo Ash WuTangTan ktsuji Killeroid jappinen_ ssideris clojurebot apoc alvis midrangio arnihermann__ creidiki_ dotemacs trescenzi srid_ SeanTAllen tfnico_ si14 Scorchin Crowb4r reiddraper
15:45	zodiak	that's one annoying bot
15:45	BAWKING	voodootikigod beawesomeinstead xrl jltrim_ fukushima FDFlock mikem kingtim
15:45	BAWKING	* Users on #clojure: ipostelnik tncardoso mel0on Blazeix bderooms_ ache Madsy edw wwitb kaoD terom hyPiRion gravity oskarth matessim JoshAshby
15:45	gtrak	BAWKING: what are you doing...
15:45	jtoy	a shitty bot
15:45	enebo	I bawk at bawking!
15:45	zodiak	can you verb his name like that ?
15:45	Bronsa	cool, i'm on #clojure
15:45	BAWKING	* Users on #clojure: ipostelnik tncardoso mel0on Blazeix bderooms_ ache Madsy edw wwitb kaoD terom hyPiRion gravity oskarth matessim JoshAshby calvados EzeQL broquaint nsxt nighty^ ahihi2 TDJACR jetlag dan64 LeNsTR reprisal TakeV cbad jave hyko fooc bobry TimMc jdp_ amro al-ol_ scottj karnowski gfredericks sattvik pushp0p hcastro pipeline ryland winkywooster locojay zaphar_ps LoganLK acagle augu
15:45	BAWKING	stl alek_b algernon rafl scgilardi dnm bweaver EToS wyan anekos xian zaargy
15:45	BAWKING	* Users on #clojure: _ulises muhoo almaisan-away metellus rbranson wink srcerer spjt _janne frankvilhelmsen Gonzih lucian espeed rcj_ serpent213 shajith jeremyheiler bradwright LauJensen brainproxy cmbntr aniero danlarkin mrb_bk mccraig raph_amiard TristamWrk kraft_ tos9 blakesmith joshbohde sramsay ericthorsen henrygarner eno dsantiago yonkeltron pbuckley Yamazaki-kun chouser TheDudeKnows joste
15:45	TimMc	Griefer or n00b, just .ignore it.
15:45	BAWKING	ink altivec drewr progo tvaalen_ katratxo pyykkis Iceland_jack Chousuke
15:45	BAWKING	* Users on #clojure: grim_radical omni5cience austinh hugod groundnuty marmae_ Guest35406 DerGuteMoritz jedi magnars Munksgaard dwierenga ninjudd lancepantz krig ozzloy rcs robink adamspgh @ChanServ geoffeg Raynes brixen djahandarie nlogax maio sjl loomcore_ tcrawley mjhan_ nuba rossabaker nDuff the-kenny boyscared TheBusby webben groot seanm tauntaun gf3 rkz helino zyfo_ nuclearsandwich chipdud
15:45	dreish	Give it a rest, bawking!
15:45	matessim	Wat
15:45	BAWKING	e yason erewhon leathekd beepboop devn mrowe thheller- tlockney zerokarmaleft
15:45	BAWKING	* Users on #clojure: ibdknox Derander_ aravind_ kral\|off cfa ivan` _ato amalloy zakwilson Dyresen brweber2_ johnkpaul aking_ replaca_ rdd anthracite wdouglas hive-mind tmarble nickmbailey sirn gmcabrita vandemar hyperboreean ivan\ pyrtsa SHODAN eggsby rmunn dleja bioc tolja kanru pjstadig TheMoonMaster rowth twem2 marchdown jeffrubic raek leafw derrida _tca andrewclegg flashingpumpkin rotty_ noi
15:45	matessim	Who dares ping me
15:45	BAWKING	di_ ajsharp_zz mtd_ ernestas jeekl Anusko jimi_hendrix wtetzner Miko2 fhd
15:45	oskarth	whats up
15:45	BAWKING	* Users on #clojure: geoffeg_c rahcola ivan fmu Cr8 arkx JStoker dougs87 Harbinger jszakmeister AWizzArd rmrfchik Le
15:45	enebo	zodiak: I believe I have license to verb all names! :)
15:45	oskarth	damn it
15:46	oskarth	:p
15:46	matessim	you just pinged 1,000 angry ronin.
15:46	TheMoonMaster	The fuck is this shit?
15:46	gf3	That was exciting
15:46	Cr8	=/
15:46	uvtc	what's the command to ignore that?
15:46	BAWKING	matessim, 477.
15:46	gf3	/quit
15:46	Bronsa	/ignore BAWKING
15:46	matessim	what the fuck was that shit.
15:46	Luyt	uvtc: Depends on your IRC client.
15:46	enebo	Everyone stop typing he may list all users again :)
15:46	oskarth	he should prolly get a ban unless he has a really good reason for doing that
15:46	TheMoonMaster	I totally couldn't tell who was in this channel
15:46	uvtc	Bronsa. Thanks. Luyt: xchat
15:46	gf3	I think we should give him ops, he clearly knows what he's doing
15:46	amalloy	oskarth: if we had any ops, we could do that
15:47	oskarth	ah, there are no ops at all?
15:47	oskarth	or just not just available right now
15:47	TimMc	Well, any ops in the channel have now been pinged.
15:47	oskarth	idd
15:47	amalloy	but i think it's basically chouser and rich, who are both not often here and not very active as ops
15:47	oskarth	so, what's the usual routine to deal with annoying people?
15:48	TimMc	oskarth: /ignore, don't talk about them, get ops
15:48	hiredman	/ignore
15:48	hiredman	/ignore is great
15:48	oskarth	fair enough
15:49	TimMc	mebaran151: Not sure... in Maven, I've seen scope=provided, indicating that it ends up on the classpath somehow...
15:49	oskarth	yeah, but not very efficient for 477 people
15:49	omni5cience	lol, I like how angry that made people
15:49	omni5cience	I just came to see what was up and there was a lot of ranting
15:49	Blazeix	sounds like omni5cience is the creator of the bot :)
15:49	oskarth	omni5cience: a lot of people have ping alerts
15:49	pandeiro	anyone tried to rip the ring handler that compiles cljs to js out of himera and use it?
15:50	omni5cience	oskarth: as do I, I just got all sorts of notifications
15:50	JorgeB	whenever someone pings me I kick a puppy. Don't ping me.
15:50	omni5cience	is it a cute puppy?
15:50	JorgeB	no, ugly puppuy
15:50	JorgeB	puppy*
15:50	Raynes	Any puppy is a cute puppy.
15:50	fliebel	I'm surprised noone is getting pings by SMS
15:50	TimMc	JorgeB: That's an interesting approach, JorgeB.
15:50	the-kenny	I really thought someone wanted to talk to me :-(
15:51	fliebel	sqs?
15:51	Raynes	the-kenny: http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/003/619/Untitled-1.jpg
15:51	mebaran151	I'm just thinking of setting up swank-cdt
15:51	omni5cience	short query service
15:51	oskarth	I have it hooked up to a huge car horn which wakes me up in case of an emergency
15:51	hiredman	simple queue service
15:51	TimMc	hiredman: Do you also get a few lines of context?
15:51	hiredman	yes
15:51	the-kenny	Raynes: haha :D
15:51	hiredman	I mean, I have the irc log piped in to sqs
15:52	hiredman	and then a little clojure app that pulls and growls them
15:52	dnolen	source maps are available in Chrome today
15:52	TimMc	dnolen: :-D
15:52	fliebel	hiredman: ... my client just growls them directly. Why the detour?
15:52	the-kenny	dnolen: For Clojurescript? Awesome
15:52	dnolen	TimMc: I don't mean for CLJS :)
15:52	dnolen	the-kenny: sorry to confuse
15:52	TimMc	D-:
15:52	hiredman	fliebel: I don't run irc locally
15:52	oskarth	hiredman: that's a neat solution, assuming you are sshing into IRC?
15:52	Raynes	halgari: Ohai
15:52	dnolen	I mean we need to get on the ball
15:52	dnolen	Chrome has source map support now
15:52	hiredman	oskarth: yes
15:53	oskarth	that's a good idea, should try that
15:53	Raynes	halgari: Excellent work on clojure-py. I was playing with it last night. It's super straightforward to get going and use. I'm not very familiar with Python, but I managed to call out to a Python library in just under 30 seconds.
15:53	oskarth	could build in delay and send mail if the message hasn't been received/sent for 24h
15:53	geoffeg_c	has anyone looked into using Web Workers with ClojureScript? I've started playing around with the idea.
15:53	fliebel	Lots of people online now, suddenly.
15:54	omni5cience	fliebel: it happens when you ping everybody in the channel
15:54	fliebel	yea
15:54	hyPiRion	heh.
15:54	the-kenny	We should do that more often
15:54	fliebel	How do you un-ignore a bot? :P
15:54	pandeiro	this happened in #Node.js few months ago, same thing happened
15:56	oskarth	ha
15:56	fliebel	Maybe it should be smarter, so that it ping selectively, based on some NLP baysian blabla.
15:56	oskarth	some channels have a not-talking-for-x-period-of-time filter, then you get kicked out
15:57	pandeiro	fliebel: i think that would be over-optimization
15:57	oskarth	I imagine a lot of people in here have a irssi client running on some server somewhere
15:57	the-kenny	dnolen: I like this approach for notifications. Is the little Clojure application open source?
15:57	the-kenny	dnolen: ew sorry.
15:57	the-kenny	hiredman: I like this approach for notifications. Is the little Clojure application open source?
15:58	notNicolas	Any recommended style guides? I'm not used to lisp style syntax
15:59	amalloy	$google scheme mumble style guide
15:59	lazybot	[lisp style guide - It works!] http://mumble.net/~campbell/scheme/style.txt
15:59	notNicolas	hmm kind of long but alright. Thanks!
15:59	omni5cience	oskarth: I have ZNC running on a server and irssi running locally :P
16:00	oskarth	:p
16:04	Raynes	notNicolas: Not all of it is entirely relevant, but it is generally sound. You could also get by with looking at popular well written code.
16:05	nDuff	Hmm; I'm doing something wrong with destructuring. ((fn [{:keys [foo bar]} & args] [foo bar]) :foo 1 :bar 2) is returning [nil nil], where I'd expect [1 2]
16:06	Raynes	You're destructuring the first argument to the function.
16:06	Raynes	Not the whole input.
16:06	Raynes	You want to destructure & args or pass an actual map.
16:07	nDuff	Ahh.
16:07	nDuff	graci
16:07	Raynes	&((fn [& {:keys [foo bar]}] [foo bar]) :foo 1 :bar 2)
16:07	lazybot	⇒ [1 2]
16:08	pandeiro	is there a simple way i could see a diff between cljs-1211 cljs-1011?
16:10	hiredman	git diff?
16:10	michaelr`	hey
16:11	dnolen	pandeiro: http://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/compare/r1011...r1211
16:11	dnolen	pandeiro: pretty massive set of changes.
16:11	pandeiro	dnolen: himera breaks between the two, trying to debug
16:12	dnolen	pandeiro: any specific error you're seeing?
16:12	pandeiro	cljs.compiler/emits isn't emitting anything
16:13	dnolen	pandeiro: oh Himera probably does some custom emission - the old what doesn't work anymore
16:14	pandeiro	has a custom expander, that could be it?
16:14	dnolen	pandeiro: you need to use emit-str now
16:14	dnolen	cljs.compiler/emit-str
16:15	dnolen	pandeiro: it takes an analyzed expression
16:15	pandeiro	cool i will swap them out and see, thanks
16:23	michaelr`	is there a way to make clojure more verbose about what it's doing right now? I removed (:class-gen) and the :main reference in project.clj and now I use (use :reload-all 'paz.server) from the repl and it's still taking minutes to load (5-7), it seems just wrong
16:24	amalloy	,(apropos "verbose")
16:24	clojurebot	(verbose-defrecords)
16:24	hiredman	^- heh
16:24	amalloy	i thought there was a verbose-loading flag or something. is that private to clojure.core, maybe?
16:24	hiredman	there is :verbose flag you can pass to require and use
16:25	hiredman	amalloy: it is not, just not documented
16:25	hiredman	michaelr`: but I imagine the problem is sloppiness on your part
16:28	michaelr`	hiredman: probably it's on my side i'm just looking for the right path to debug it
16:30	pandeiro	how does the cljs repl eval more than one form at a time?
16:30	pandeiro	i notice that read-string does not work with a string of more than one form
16:33	dnolen	pandeiro: cljs repl uses Clojure reader not the CLJS one
16:41	mccraig	what's the canonical way of ensuring that a (atom \| vector) is/becomes a vector ?
16:42	rlb	mccraig: you mean you have something that might be an atom or a vector?
16:42	ivan	nDuff: you can open a file with a share mode that includes FILE_SHARE_DELETE and you'll be able to delete it; too bad most things don't support it/do it
16:43	ivan	I don't think you can reach it through the POSIX open() that everyone likes to use
16:44	mccraig	rlb: yeah, and if it's an atom, i want to make it into a vector
16:45	rlb	(if (vector? x) x (atom x))
16:45	pandeiro	i would do (or (and (atom? atom-or-vec) @atom-or-vec) atom-or-vec)
16:45	rlb	of if you need to test for atom (may be a better way): (instance? java.lang.Atom x)
16:45	rlb	pandeiro: didn't see atom?
16:46	pandeiro	i'm assuming there's an atom? function :)
16:46	pandeiro	there's not?
16:46	rlb	pandeiro: not by default, at least not here.
16:46	pandeiro	yeah, not here either
16:47	pandeiro	but it can't be too hard to create a predicate like that, right?
16:47	rlb	mccraig: ignore what I said first -- by "make it a vector", make what a vector?
16:47	rlb	mccraig: the atom, or the content of the atom?
16:47	yoklov	like (if (vector? x) (vector x) x) ?
16:48	rlb	i.e. if the latter -- (if (vector? x) x [@x])
16:48	yoklov	oh right
16:48	michaelr`	haha
16:48	mccraig	agh. i don't mean atom. more brainfail :)
16:48	yoklov	that was totally backwards
16:48	michaelr`	problem solved!
16:48	michaelr`	i just upgraded noir to the latest version
16:48	michaelr`	was beta 3 not beta 7
16:49	michaelr`	it got lost somewhere while loading my views
16:49	michaelr`	s/not/now
16:50	mccraig	rlb: i was meaning atom in the cl sense, i.e. not a sequential?
16:50	mccraig	what i want is the equivalent of the ruby: [*scalar_or_vector]
16:52	rlb	would (if (coll? x) x [x]) do something suitable?
16:52	rlb	i.e. does it have to result in a vector?
16:52	mccraig	yeah, that would work.. i was looking for something more elegant :)
16:52	rlb	that will put anything that's not a collection into a vector...
16:52	rlb	(which might or might not be OK)
16:53	rlb	mccraig: just curious -- what's the use case (wondering what that's normally used for in ruby, for example)?
16:54	mccraig	in this case, incanter gives me a scalar when i select a single column from a row of a matrix, but a vector when i select a range of columns… what i actually want is a vector in both cases
16:54	S11001001	mccraig: and having special language-level syntax just for that operation is particularly elegant?
16:56	mccraig	S11001001: that same syntax is used for apply in ruby, which is pretty general-purpose, so yeah it is quite elegant
16:57	mccraig	S11001001: tho ruby has many counter-examples of ugliness
16:58	S11001001	the division between scalar and non-scalar is not clear enough in either language to fix one definition at the language level
16:58	S11001001	it just happens that ruby did it anyway
16:59	muhoo	happy :-) https://www.refheap.com/paste/2739
16:59	yoklov	it's a fairly common lisp idiom afaik, i'm actually surprised clojure doesn't give you something like that
16:59	S11001001	among your choices are seq?, coll?, sequential?, and seqable? from core.incubator
17:00	ordnungswidrig1	muhoo: nice
17:00	S11001001	and if ruby's apply just interprets a scalar as a list of one element, for some arbitrary meaning of scalar among the several that make sense in ruby, that's not good design
17:01	yoklov	something like (defn ensure-seq [x] (if (seq? x) x (list x))) has been somewhat common in my scheme code, and I've heard of lispers using it
17:02	S11001001	aye
17:04	pandeiro	does lein cljsbuild know by default to look for cljs libs in lib/ if a specific :source-path is defined, or would lib/ have to be included there too?
17:05	srid``	avout seems quite buggy. sometimes the refs/atoms get reset to nil. tried with the mongo adapter, made no difference.
17:05	dnolen	pandeiro: cljsbuild looks for files on the classpath
17:08	pandeiro	surprised that the himera repl.cljs 75-line file is taking 65 seconds to compile with lein cljsbuild
17:13	muhoo	ordnungswidrig1: thanks. that little function took me 8+ hours to write. clojure makes me work very, very hard, but i strangely enjoy it.
17:13	wkmanire	muhoo: one function 8 hours?
17:13	wkmanire	WHat am I getting myself into.
17:15	dnolen	pandeiro: sounds suspect
17:15	Raynes	wkmanire: You can do in 8 hours in one function in Clojure what you can do in 8 hours and 47 classes, 50 files, and 1800 compile -> run cycles in Java.
17:16	muhoo	wkmanire: what Raynes said :-)
17:16	wkmanire	I'm assuming that functon ended up terse as well right?
17:16	wkmanire	From the little bit of clojure I've written I'm just shocked by how terse it is.
17:16	wkmanire	So much implied functionality.
17:17	muhoo	i'm addicted to the damn thing. i suspect it may ruin me, but i don't care.
17:18	TimMc	muhoo: It won't ruin you so much as it will ruin other languages for you.
17:19	muhoo	wkmanire: actually, here is what i'm coming to realize. i'm getting old. i have carpal tunnel issues and vision issues. i simply CANNOT sit here typing 47 classes 50 files and 1800 compiles. i have to be able to do more with less typing, and more thinking. it's almost a health imperative.
17:19	TimMc	Might be the same thing, employability-wise.
17:21	muhoo	TimMc: so far, i've been pretty lucky. just completed a nice sized web app job in clojure for a customer, he didn't care what it was written in. and, looks like there are plenty of clojure jobs for those interested in FT work too.
17:27	zoldar	muhoo: can you tell the url of that web app? :)
17:28	TimMc	muhoo: "FT" == full-time?
17:29	muhoo	zoldar: it's an intranet thing, nothing to see without login
17:29	muhoo	TimMc: ya.
17:29	tmciver	muhoo: FT work?
17:30	muhoo	tmciver: FT => full time, PT => part time, etc
17:30	wkmanire	muhoo: I know what you mean about having to deal with mountains of seperate class files.
17:30	wkmanire	After spending a while working in Python I find the one file one class paradigm to be laughable.
17:31	muhoo	actually that was raynes's witticism about the explosion of class files in oop languages. and it's true :-)
17:31	tmciver	muhoo: ha! I was thinking Functional something.
17:31	muhoo	FT FP
17:32	TimMc	the dream
17:33	muhoo	dream? i dunno, i saw quite a few booths at clojurewest that said "we're hiring".
17:33	TimMc	Dreams can be achievable. :-P
17:42	alex_baranosky	FT FP :)
17:42	alex_baranosky	the reality :)
17:43	muhoo	alex_baranosky: runa was one of those, yes.
17:52	jimt	virsh uri
18:04	yoklov	has anybody ported propagators network to clojure? the amount of state that seems necessary is… daunting.
18:04	yoklov	(http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/gjs/propagators/)
18:07	dnolen	yoklov: I messed around with it in Scheme a bit, their approach seemed very slow.
18:08	dnolen	yoklov: at the least constraint portion is better done via cKanren approach as far as I can tell.
18:08	yoklov	dnolen: yeah, i part of the speed issues come from using lists for sets/associations
18:09	yoklov	*i think
18:09	dnolen	yoklov: I know cemerick tried something with atoms - also was not particularly fast - but not sure what the bottleneck was there.
18:09	yoklov	Hm, that's interesting
18:09	dnolen	yoklov: maybe, it creates a network of propagators - there's a lot of overhead pushing changes around.
18:10	yoklov	yeah, maybe it's just not a particularly fast model of computation.
18:10	dnolen	yoklov: cKanren is lazier in it's approach to updating constraints
18:10	yoklov	not until it's extremely parallel
18:10	yoklov	until/unless
18:10	dnolen	yoklov: yeah probably.
18:11	dnolen	yoklov: in any case The Art of Propagator rocks - nice approachable intro to this stuff.
18:11	dnolen	kind of like a SICP Chapter 4.5
18:13	yoklov	Right, I've read through that and Alexey's dissertation on the subject, and started trying to port some of the code to clojure when I became a bit overwhelmed with it
18:13	yoklov	any object having an arbitrary number of stateful fields determined at runtime is… daunting
18:14	yoklov	It's fascinating stuff though, not sure if it's strictly useful but it's really neat.
18:17	yoklov	Hadn't ever thought of it like sicp chapter 4.5, but it does sort of read like that now that you mention it.
18:17	dnolen	yoklov: again I recommend reading the William Byrd Dissertation + cKanren paper for very, very functional approach to constraint programming.
18:18	dnolen	similar results - not stateful.
18:18	yoklov	Interesting, will do.
18:28	gtrak	is there a way I can get lein to ignore the ~/.m2/settings.xml?
18:30	amalloy	rm ~/.m2/settings.xml
18:34	jaen	Hey, could you please kindly tell me what shall I do if I wanted to expose a defrecorded record for Java to use?
18:36	brehaut	jaen: i'm guessing here, but i think you need to do AOT export if you want it accessible from a jar without calling clojure at all
18:36	brehaut	s/export/compile/
18:36	technomancy	gtrak: upgrade to lein2 =)
18:36	brehaut	jaen: you can probably also call in via the clojure runtime and require the namespace that defines the record
18:37	gtrak	technomancy: can i use two versions of lein concurrently?
18:38	technomancy	gtrak: definitely
18:38	technomancy	clojurebot: leiningen upgrade guide
18:38	clojurebot	leiningen is always the easiest way
18:38	technomancy	well yes, but
18:38	technomancy	clojurebot: google: leiningen upgrade guide
18:38	clojurebot	upgrading to leiningen 2 is easy with this handy upgrade guide: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/wiki/Upgrading
18:38	jaen	brehaut: mhmm
18:38	gtrak	would I just use 2 different lein scripts?
18:39	gtrak	i have some projects that require an older version
18:39	technomancy	gtrak: sure; lein and lein2 if you like
18:39	gtrak	awesome
18:40	testclj	gtrak
18:40	testclj	is testing irc from clojure
19:03	srid``	why would anyone use `atom` in clojurescript?
19:05	nDuff	Ahh! Someone was asking the other day about a non-JNI-based mechanism for getting notifications about external files changing? That's a JDK 7 thing, java.nio.file.WatchService
19:06	technomancy	nDuff: cool
19:06	pipeline	so the inevitable question
19:06	pipeline	how is that service implemented on your target platform
19:07	pipeline	is it gonna sit and spin if you don't have inotify on linux or what
19:07	nDuff	pipeline: hasn't been a Linux without inotify or dnotify or FAM for ages
19:07	pipeline	well that is a perfect example
19:07	pipeline	a lot of shit you would use inotify for would be poison with dnotify or fam
19:07	pipeline	and what happens e.g. on windows, sosx
19:08	nDuff	both of those have equivalents
19:08	pipeline	having a non-jni solution makes it easier but it is not the end of the line
19:08	nDuff	it'd only be older *nix systems where I'd expect having an efficient API to be in question at all.
19:12	nDuff	pipeline: ...that said, the API allows a FileSystem to simply assert that it doesn't have the interface available by throwing an UnsupportedOperationException, so it doesn't look like it'll fall back to polling under any circumstances.
19:13	pipeline	nDuff: that is an awesome api
19:28	pipeline	nDuff: I was not being sarcastic
19:28	pipeline	nDuff: it is way better to barf an exception than to have performance vary by 3 orders of magnitude and just not work right
19:32	technomancy	still you should be able to fall back to polling if you explicitly want it
19:34	frozenlock	Is there ways to use clojure Noir with ssl? (Sandbar perhaps?)
19:44	startling	hi, does clojure have something like haskell's "init"? I want everything but the last element of a list; basically the opposite of "last"
19:44	hyPiRion	butlast?
19:45	hyPiRion	,(butlast [1 2 3])
19:45	clojurebot	(1 2)
19:45	startling	that's it. thanks!
19:45	hyPiRion	you're welcome :)
19:46	nDuff	startling: ...that said, efficiency on that depends on what type you're using it with
19:46	startling	nDuff, yep. it's bad for linked lists, good for vectors
19:47	startling	nDuff, just looking for a nice way to write `reverse` in the clojure koans
19:47	hyPiRion	butlast works for lists, pop works for vectors.
19:47	brehaut	i suspect its basically identical for vectors and lists
19:47	nDuff	pop also works for lists or queues
19:48	nDuff	...but returns an object of the same type, as opposed to a sequence
19:48	brehaut	pop works for anything that implements IPersistentStack
19:48	hyPiRion	Well, pop != butlast in a sense, as popping a list removes the first element, while popping a vector removes the last.
19:49	kaoD	hyPiRion: is right
19:49	kaoD	I had quite a headache with that :P
19:49	nDuff	...right; pop being more of an inverse to conj
19:50	brehaut	https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/RT.java#L626-630
19:51	startling	hm, you can't recur modulo cons?
19:51	hyPiRion	startling: What do you mean?
19:51	brehaut	nDuff: pop isnt necessarily the inverser of conj. on a queue for instances they work at opposite ends
19:53	brehaut	nDuff: identical? != equal
19:53	nDuff	brehaut: nod, but being persistent structures...
19:53	brehaut	nDuff: identical? tests if two references are to the same _object_. ie its areference test, not a value test
19:53	nDuff	brehaut: yes, I know that. I expected structural sharing to result in it being actually the same object in that case.
19:53	startling	hyPiRion: in some languages, there's a thing called "tail call modulo cons", which lets you what would be (defn x [seq] (cons (1) (recur (rest seq)))) in clojure
19:54	startling	(efficiently)
19:54	brehaut	nDuff: it doesnt go back and look at the historical, discarded structures and pull it back, it builds a new one preserving as much as it can of the old
19:55	startling	but clojure tells me "Can only recur from tail position"
19:55	hyPiRion	startling: Ah. I just wrap a loop around such cases.
19:55	frozenlock	ibdknox: I'm sure you are already over your head with light-table, but do you have any ssl example for Noir you could point me to?
19:55	brehaut	nDuff: removing and reattaching the same object from an (internally) tree shaped collection can result in a different internal shape with the same value
19:56	nDuff	brehaut: Didn't expect it to look at historical structures. Was thinking of something more akin to a list implementation wherein the prior version would be included in the new one. On thinking it about it a bit more, I should have known that vectors didn't work that way.
19:56	nDuff	nod.
19:56	startling	hyPiRion, sure.
19:56	hyPiRion	It's not pretty, but it gets the job done.
19:56	startling	I'm doing the clojure koans, though, and it wants me to write a recursive reverse. :/
19:57	hyPiRion	recursive != tail-call optimized ;)
19:57	brehaut	nDuff: if doesnt work for lists either
19:57	brehaut	,(let [s (list 1 2 3)] (identical? (cons 1 (rest s)) s))
19:57	clojurebot	false
19:57	startling	hyPiRion, I get a stack overflow if i do it naively. :S
19:58	hyPiRion	hm.
19:58	brehaut	oh, wrong expression
19:58	nDuff	,(let [start '(1 2 3)] (identical? start (pop (conj start 4))))
19:58	clojurebot	true
19:58	brehaut	,(let [s (list 1 2 3)] (identical? (conj (rest s) 1) s)) ; pedantic clarification
19:58	clojurebot	false
19:58	startling	is there a thing like haskell's "flip"? takes a function and returns a function that takes the arguments in the opposite order
19:59	kaoD	nDuff: I was going to point that out
19:59	brehaut	obviously the tail remains identical, but thats not the same thing as getting an identical list when you conj the same value onto the front of it
20:00	kaoD	startling: probably you can do it with #(reverse %&)
20:00	kaoD	&( #(reverse %&) 1 2 3 4 )
20:00	lazybot	⇒ (4 3 2 1)
20:00	startling	kaoD: heh, the point is to write a recursive reverse function, though
20:00	startling	ah well, i'll just ignore it
20:00	kaoD	startling: if you're talking about 4clojure... it has no point
20:01	startling	kaoD: clojure koans, actually
20:01	kaoD	still, I like abusing the rules :P
20:01	startling	kaoD, yeah, there are quite a few (= "Hello world" "Hello world")s in my solutions
20:02	hyPiRion	startling: (defn rev [c] (if (nil? c) nil (concat (rev (next c)) [(first c)])))
20:02	brehaut	my favorite recursive reverse is (partial reduce conj ())
20:02	startling	ooh, that works
20:02	startling	I was going to do (reduce (flip (partial cons)) '()) but clojure doesn't have flip. :(
20:02	PeregrinePDX	That is I believe the implementation of reverse in clojure.core
20:03	brehaut	hah it is too
20:03	kaoD	brehaut: how is that recursive?
20:03	brehaut	kaoD: reduce is the primative recursive operation
20:03	kaoD	ah
20:03	hyPiRion	kaoD: reduce is recursive?
20:03	brehaut	kaoD: its not _explicitly recursive_
20:03	kaoD	I thought it wasn't recursive
20:03	kaoD	I thought reduce used loop under the hood
20:03	brehaut	it doesnt matter how its implemented, its mathematically a recursive operation
20:03	startling	kaoD, doesn't clojure use a stack machine under the hood?
20:04	startling	kaoD, if so, nothing in clojure would be recursive
20:04	kaoD	brehaut: oh, mathematically
20:04	kaoD	startling: stack machine = has recursion
20:04	kaoD	I mean
20:05	kaoD	ok, I get your point
20:05	kaoD	btw, my personal favorite is
20:05	kaoD	&(into () '(1 2 3 4 5 6))
20:05	lazybot	⇒ (6 5 4 3 2 1)
20:05	brehaut	thats quite a nice variant
20:05	startling	what does into do?
20:06	kaoD	I think it basically does (partial reduce conj ())
20:06	brehaut	it calls conj on the initial argument for all the values in the seq
20:06	kaoD	under the hood
20:06	startling	ah
20:06	brehaut	kaoD: yes. the only detail is that it uses transients for performance
20:06	startling	conj is cons flipped?
20:06	brehaut	(when it can)
20:07	kaoD	startling: nope, conj is... conj
20:07	brehaut	conj is polymorphic cons with the arguments flipped
20:07	startling	brehaut: got it, thanks
20:07	brehaut	its also a varargs cons
20:07	startling	huh, how does that work?
20:07	brehaut	,(conj [] 1 2 3)
20:07	clojurebot	[1 2 3]
20:08	startling	oh, neat
20:08	brehaut	,((partial apply conj ()) [1 2 3 4])
20:08	clojurebot	(4 3 2 1)
20:08	startling	heh
20:09	brehaut	(its short for 'conjoin' incidentally)
20:09	startling	is (reduce (partial +) ...) the best way to do that?
20:09	kaoD	startling: bear in mind this
20:09	brehaut	(apply + …)
20:09	kaoD	,(conj () 1 2 3)
20:09	clojurebot	(3 2 1)
20:09	startling	kaoD, yeah?
20:09	startling	brehaut: oooh
20:09	brehaut	startling: where functions provide a vararg form that would do what a reduce with the binary form would do (eg, +) its better to use the vararg version
20:10	kaoD	,(= (conj [] 1 2 3) (conj () 1 2 3))
20:10	clojurebot	false
20:10	startling	brehaut: yeah, i'm used to haskell
20:10	kaoD	startling: you don't need partial +
20:10	hyPiRion	I like to think of conj as the fastest way of adding an element to a collection. For a vector, that is naturally at the end, and for a (linked) list, that is naturally at the beginning.
20:10	startling	brehaut: so varargs in functional languages are weird for me
20:10	hyPiRion	cons is just at the front, no matter what.
20:10	brehaut	startling: there are varargs in haskell (sort of)
20:10	kaoD	you only need partial if you're partially applying it
20:10	startling	brehaut: yeah, sort of. but not for (+)
20:11	brehaut	no, not for plus
20:11	kaoD	it's not about plus
20:11	kaoD	it's about partially applying
20:11	brehaut	startling: + is also convenient here because it has a nice identity
20:11	brehaut	,(+)
20:11	clojurebot	0
20:11	kaoD	,(map (partial + 2) [1 2 3 4])
20:11	clojurebot	(3 4 5 6)
20:11	startling	kaoD, okay?
20:11	kaoD	,(map + [1 2 3 4])
20:11	clojurebot	(1 2 3 4)
20:11	kaoD	see what I mean?
20:11	kaoD	brehaut: my god, didn't know about + identity
20:12	startling	yeah, that's pretty cool
20:12	brehaut	* has it too, but not - or /
20:12	kaoD	for / makes sense
20:12	kaoD	but for - ?
20:12	kaoD	,(-)
20:12	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (0) passed to: core$->
20:13	brehaut	i saw the argument for why somewhere on the internet the other day, but i cant recall where
20:13	brehaut	perhaps rhickey's reducers blog post?
20:13	brehaut	yes http://clojure.com/blog/2012/05/08/reducers-a-library-and-model-for-collection-processing.html
20:14	brehaut	hmm or maybe not
20:14	kaoD	btw, I had some trouble implementing chain of responsibility while trying not to reinvent the wheel
20:14	kaoD	it ended up looking a lot like monads
20:14	kaoD	am I doing it wrong or should I just use monads?
20:14	startling	hm, clojure has pattern-matching for variable arguments but not for values?
20:14	kaoD	chain of responsibility with event consuming
20:15	kaoD	startling: it has no pattern matching
20:15	brehaut	clojure doesnt have pattern matching in core, it only has destructuring
20:15	brehaut	pattern matching is in core.match and last i heard (a while ago) not quite ready for prime time
20:15	kaoD	which makes me sad :(
20:16	startling	kaoD, (defn length ([] 0) ([a] 1)) is what i meant by "pattern matching for variable arguments", i guess
20:16	brehaut	,(destructure ['[a b] [1 2 3]])
20:16	clojurebot	[vec__237 [1 2 3] a (clojure.core/nth vec__237 0 nil) b ...]
20:16	kaoD	startling: then it's overloading by arity
20:16	kaoD	not pattern matching
20:16	brehaut	destructuring doesnt take the value into account at all, its just convenient access
20:16	startling	kaoD: ah
20:17	brehaut	(destructure ['[a b] 1])
20:17	brehaut	,(destructure ['[a b] 1])
20:17	clojurebot	[vec__264 1 a (clojure.core/nth vec__264 0 nil) b ...]
20:17	brehaut	you can see that that is going to fail, but it will generate the code for you anyway
20:17	kaoD	that's quite an ugly representation
20:17	brehaut	thats just internals with gensym for use in macros
20:18	xeqi	kaoD: chain of responsability sounds alot like ring middleware
20:18	xeqi	when I read it on wikipedia
20:18	brehaut	if you want to see what pattern matching currently looks like in clojure: https://github.com/clojure/core.match/
20:19	kaoD	xeqi: yup, it's pretty much it
20:19	kaoD	in fact I want it for a middleware-like thing
20:21	kaoD	xeqi: in fact I want something like that but I also want stop conditions
20:21	kaoD	i.e. consuming events
20:21	kaoD	(which IIRC ring's middleware cant)
20:22	kaoD	that's where complexity begins and my conde starts looking like ugly-monads
20:22	kaoD	*code
20:22	brehaut	kaoD: what do you mean by stop conditions?
20:22	brehaut	you want to be able to block the next handler in the chain?
20:23	kaoD	and therefore, blocking all the rest
20:23	kaoD	consuming the event, that is
20:24	xeqi	you can block the next handler by just not passing it down
20:25	xeqi	which is basically what the last handler, usually the app does
20:25	kaoD	xeqi: it's probably done using reduce
20:25	kaoD	or equivalent
20:25	kaoD	which I shouldn't use because I might want to consume it BEFORE the end
20:25	kaoD	so I ended up using loop-recur + stop condition
20:26	kaoD	but it's not very extensible without heavy tweaking of code and added complexity
20:26	kaoD	which made my code look very similar to monads
20:26	brehaut	well then, go use monads :P
20:26	kaoD	I heard clojure.monads is very inefficent
20:27	brehaut	yes and no
20:27	brehaut	it does a lot of static compilation to minimise the function call overhead
20:27	brehaut	its definately not going to be as efficient as hand optimised code (eg core.logic vs a logic monad)
20:28	brehaut	but its the same amount of overhead as a monad in haskell that doesnt have the advantage of fusion or other rewriting rules
20:28	kaoD	I see
20:28	kaoD	I should give it a try then, thanks
20:28	brehaut	its also clojure.algo.monads btw
20:29	kaoD	yup
20:31	brehaut	kaoD: its worth having a look at the imp of algo.monads and tools.macro to see how symbol-macros are used to eliminate some of the indirection and dynamic lookups you might expect to be there
20:32	kaoD	I'm afraid I'm just another victim of premature optimization
20:32	brehaut	haha probably
20:32	kaoD	I'd better leave it like it is until I really need to tweak :P
20:33	hyPiRion	While talking about monads, does anyone have a good clojure-introduction to monads for complete beginners on the topic?
20:34	brehaut	hyPiRion: clojure.net
20:34	brehaut	all of it
20:34	kaoD	hyPiRion: I learn them in clojure.algo.monads git repo
20:35	kaoD	it has several links
20:35	kaoD	(one to onclojure IIRC)
20:36	kaoD	it can get very technical but I found it amusing
20:36	kaoD	and the technical chitty-chat is actually justified
20:38	hyPiRion	kaoD: Ah, thank you.
20:44	kaoD	gfredericks: what do you mean password creation?
20:44	gfredericks	choosing a password when creating an account on a site
20:44	kaoD	and what are you battling with?
20:44	gfredericks	the validation rules
20:45	kaoD	just warn, no matter how long or convoluted the password is
20:45	gfredericks	kaoD: no this is not my site
20:45	gfredericks	I'm trying to create an account and it doesn't like my password
20:45	kaoD	oh
20:45	kaoD	I see
20:45	kaoD	then they applied the method I described
20:46	kaoD	it's pretty common
20:46	gfredericks	just warning?
20:46	kaoD	it depends
20:46	kaoD	if they really want to annoy you
20:46	kaoD	it's like sites which need usernames length >5
20:46	kaoD	I'm fucking kaoD
20:46	mittchel	Hm guys
20:46	kaoD	4 characters
20:46	kaoD	why would you make me be something else!?!?
20:46	mittchel	,((fn [x y] (nil?(get y x nil))){:a nil :b 2} :c)
20:46	clojurebot	true
20:47	mittchel	Why does that give true? It shouldn't find C so give back nil
20:47	mittchel	Nevermind
20:47	mittchel	dumbest question ever.
20:47	kaoD	,(get :c {:a nil :b 2} nil)
20:47	clojurebot	nil
20:47	mittchel	I know what happends
20:47	kaoD	,(nil? nil)
20:47	clojurebot	true
20:47	kaoD	:P
20:47	mittchel	it doesn't find C so it replaces it with nil. and (nil? nil) returns true
20:47	mittchel	lol:D
20:48	gfredericks	,(-> nil nil? true? false? false?)
20:48	clojurebot	true
20:48	PeregrinePDX	This is why I save those kind of questions for a pm
20:48	PeregrinePDX	then only 1 person knows I'm an idiot
20:48	mittchel	haha
20:49	technomancy	has anyone tried JDK7 and had to stick with JDK6 for whatever reason?
20:49	kaoD	technomancy: yes I did
20:49	technomancy	kaoD: oh? what happened?
20:49	kaoD	well, actually hacked my way around JDK7
20:49	kaoD	Android -> key generation went wrong
20:49	kaoD	apparently the algorithm changed so my keys were rejected when installing
20:49	kaoD	also Google AppEngine + GWT
20:49	technomancy	huh.
20:50	kaoD	refused to work
20:50	kaoD	because...
20:50	kaoD	something
20:50	kaoD	:P
20:50	technomancy	what about in a deployed production environment?
20:50	kaoD	no idea there
20:51	gfredericks	usernames can have curly braces but passwords have to be alphanumeric??
20:51	lazybot	gfredericks: What are you, crazy? Of course not!
20:51	gfredericks	and tildes
20:51	kaoD	hahaha
20:51	kaoD	lazybot: is always right no matter what
20:51	kaoD	right, lazybot ???
20:51	lazybot	kaoD: Yes, 100% for sure.
20:56	mittchel	Guys
20:56	mittchel	rem takes 2 numbers and returns the difference between them right
20:56	mittchel	so lets say
20:56	mittchel	10 9 = 1
20:57	tmciver	mittchel: nope, remainder
20:57	tmciver	after division
20:57	mittchel	ah
20:57	kaoD	not to be confused with modulo
20:57	startling	,(rem 20 9(
20:57	startling	,(rem 20 9)
20:57	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
20:57	clojurebot	2
20:57	kaoD	&(mod -10 3)
20:57	mittchel	aAlright:D
20:58	kaoD	&(rem -10 3)
20:58	kaoD	okay, lazybot is having a nap
20:58	kaoD	,(mod -10 3)
20:58	clojurebot	2
20:58	kaoD	,(rem -10 3)
20:58	clojurebot	-1
21:00	mittchel	Hm
21:00	mittchel	but could you explain 1 thing for me
21:00	mittchel	(for [x (range 40)
21:00	mittchel	:when (= 1 (rem x 4))]
21:00	mittchel	x))
21:00	mittchel	this result sin: 1 5 9 13 17 etc.
21:00	mittchel	but when x = 1, it does: (rem 1 4)
21:00	mittchel	which is 1
21:00	mittchel	so thats ok, but when x = 2 you have
21:00	mittchel	2
21:01	mittchel	so why isn't 2 displayed?
21:01	kaoD	lol nope
21:01	gfredericks	because 2 is not 1
21:01	kaoD	:when
21:01	kaoD	:when = 1
21:01	kaoD	when remainder is 1
21:01	mittchel	oh my god
21:01	kaoD	,(rem 1 4)
21:01	clojurebot	1
21:01	kaoD	,(rem 5 4)
21:01	clojurebot	1
21:01	gfredericks	&(for [x (range 40)] (rem x 4))
21:01	lazybot	⇒ (0 1 2 3 0 1 2 3 0 1 2 3 0 1 2 3 0 1 2 3 0 1 2 3 0 1 2 3 0 1 2 3 0 1 2 3 0 1 2 3)
21:01	kaoD	,(rem 9 4)
21:01	clojurebot	1
21:01	mittchel	oh my gosh
21:01	mittchel	I got it lol
21:02	mittchel	,(rem 37 4)
21:02	clojurebot	1
21:02	mittchel	So every remainder that is 1 for x, x will be shown
21:02	mittchel	lol
21:02	mittchel	It's late for me so excuse me haha
21:03	gfredericks	&(-> 50000 range count)
21:03	lazybot	⇒ 50000
21:04	hyPiRion	That's mean.
21:04	gfredericks	&(->> 50000 range reverse count range (reduce +))
21:04	lazybot	⇒ 1249975000
21:04	hyPiRion	&(-> 1e7 range count)
21:04	mittchel	haha
21:04	lazybot	⇒ 10000000
21:04	mittchel	,(if 0 1 0)
21:04	clojurebot	1
21:04	mittchel	why does that give me 1
21:05	gfredericks	0 is truthy
21:05	mittchel	cause if 0 is always true?
21:05	metellus	only alse and nil are true
21:05	gfredericks	false
21:05	mittchel	oh ok:D
21:05	metellus	yeah, that
21:05	metellus	both times I wanted to say "false" I messed up
21:05	gfredericks	double meaning. I was correcting your typo and contradicting you
21:06	septomin	false: false is false
21:06	mittchel	haha
21:06	gfredericks	only alse and fil are trouble
21:07	hyPiRion	septomin: Well, that's confusing. ##(-> false false? false?)
21:07	lazybot	⇒ false
21:07	septomin	malkovich
21:08	gfredericks	(-> false false? (= (false? false)))
21:08	gfredericks	&(-> false false? (= (false? false)))
21:08	lazybot	⇒ true
21:14	amalloy	kaoD: lazybot would pay more attention to you if you stopped putting spaces before his &s
21:15	alex_baranosky	just have to say that clojure.string/split behaves weirdly when splitting ""
21:16	alex_baranosky	I'd expect an empty seq to be returned, not [""]
21:17	kaoD	amalloy: lol, I copypasted and didn't even notice
21:19	alex_baranosky	anyone else see that behavior in clojure.string/split, and think it was odd?
21:23	amalloy	that behavior is never gonna change, since split is just a wrapper around String/split
21:34	brehaut	/away
21:34	kaoD	/near
21:36	brehaut	bah /me fails at irc
21:41	brehaut	hi talios
21:41	talios	so much for being away!
21:41	brehaut	i was trying to be unaway
21:41	talios	:)
21:42	brehaut	see: i fail bad
21:48	muhoo	alex_baranosky: ##(seq (.split "" "."))
21:48	lazybot	⇒ ("")
21:49	muhoo	seems to be a java thang
21:49	alex_baranosky	still sucks ;)
21:49	alex_baranosky	it is very JAva-ey in that way I guess :D
21:49	alex_baranosky	I kiiddd I kidddd
21:50	brehaut	,(re-seq #"^[,]" "") ;; nothing says overkill like a regexp
21:50	clojurebot	nil
22:01	devn	alex_baranosky: why would you expect empty seq? I mean, I know why, but I'm forcing self-reflection on you. Why do you think empty seq?
22:02	devn	alex_baranosky: I find it pretty easy to imagine splitting an empty string on that which it does not contain would produce the original empty string.
22:02	alex_baranosky	dev: dammit you're making me reflect
22:02	devn	I guess I am more surprised it is a sequence and not an empty string.
22:02	alex_baranosky	and it makes sense
22:03	devn	but even still, sort of normal depending on your version of normal
22:03	gfredericks	the return value in any other case is a sequence of strings
22:03	devn	nod
22:03	alex_baranosky	well if you split "abc" on "," you get back "abc"
22:03	alex_baranosky	which makes total sense
22:03	devn	in a sequence, right?
22:03	devn	["abc"]
22:03	alex_baranosky	yeah
22:03	devn	err coll
22:03	alex_baranosky	sorry
22:03	gfredericks	&(.split "abc" ",")
22:03	lazybot	⇒ #<String[] [Ljava.lang.String;@17d4a14>
22:03	gfredericks	&(seq (.split "abc" ","))
22:03	lazybot	⇒ ("abc")
22:05	devn	at least it's NaN
22:05	devn	it's *not NaN
22:05	gfredericks	so it _is_ a number?
22:06	muhoo	heh, NaN, watman.
22:07	devn	wat?
22:07	clojurebot	For Jswat: start clojure with -Xdebug -Xrunjdwp:transport=dt_socket,server=y,suspend=n,address=8888
22:08	devn	who knows their noir here?
22:08	devn	im failing on some forms stuff
22:08	devn	https://gist.github.com/2706731
22:09	devn	how do I get the path to look like /search-by-input/myquery
22:10	devn	ibdknox: i bet you know the answer 3:)
22:12	devn	i want to type something into the form field as a string, and for it to be the query ive made against a fn. what i have currently returns ":query" examples
22:12	devn	i want :query to be "myquery"
22:13	xeqi	devn: don't think you can post to a dynamic url like that without javascript
22:14	devn	xeqi: that's what i thought :(
22:14	xeqi	usually its just get/post to /search-by-input and then grab the value out of the query
22:14	xeqi	could make that page do a redirect if you really wanted to
22:14	devn	that's too bad
22:14	devn	meh, might as well involve JS at this point I suppose
22:14	xeqi	*grab the query value out of the params
22:15	devn	someone told me that and I was willing to fight because it seemed like i might be able to do it
22:20	arohner	hiredman: https://github.com/arohner/clj-wallhack
22:24	devn	arohner: heh
22:24	devn	hmmm.... clojure.pprint/code-dispatch
22:24	devn	im not sure im using it right still
22:27	jweiss_	is there some trick to getting stdout in the either the repl or the console in CCW? most of my stdout seems to not be anywhere. this works fine in emacs/slime.
22:27	jweiss_	seems like println is all that works.
22:29	devn	jweiss_: that's vague. specific case where you want to capture out?
22:30	devn	&(with-out-str (println "foo"))
22:30	lazybot	java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! pop-thread-bindings is bad!
22:30	devn	,(with-out-str (println "foo"))
22:30	clojurebot	"foo\n"
22:31	devn	jweiss_: like that?
22:32	jweiss_	devn: i'm not quite sure what's going on, that is what i was hoping the stdout might tell me. i thought it might be a known CCW thing, i'll dig deeper and see if i can determine where it's going. there are definitely cases where the same code prints stdout in emacs, but not in CCW
22:32	jweiss_	not a 1-liner though, unfortunately
22:33	devn	jweiss_: godspeed
22:36	jweiss_	devn, another q for you - (assuming you're a ccw user). i notice that highlighting a defn form in an unsaved file and hitting ctrl-enter, doesn't seem to update the function. works different than slime? am i missing something?
22:36	devn	im not a ccw user
22:37	devn	but maybe i can help
22:37	jweiss_	i usually use emacs but i want to demo using eclipse for my co-workers
22:37	devn	:)
22:37	devn	that makes me feel fuzzy inside
22:38	devn	jweiss_: this is slightly off the beaten path
22:38	devn	but perhaps you shouldnt be demoing in terms of editors
22:38	devn	if you can avoid it
22:38	kaoD	devn: I'm sure he's trying not to scare off his co-workers
22:38	kaoD	which emacs is very good at
22:38	jweiss_	devn: they are actually going to be using eclipse.
22:38	kaoD	(at scaring, I mean)
22:39	devn	kaoD: it is, but for some it is a nice challenge
22:39	jweiss_	i'm lucky they're using clojure at all, making them learn emacs was asking too much :)
22:39	devn	challenges inspire some people
22:39	devn	and discourage others
22:40	jweiss_	devn, yup that is true
22:40	fil512	why does this give me an error:
22:40	fil512	(defn records-by-host [records]
22:40	fil512	(index records [:host]))
22:40	jweiss	if i coulda forced them into emacs, i would have :)
22:40	devn	jweiss: i guess what im suggesting (only as a suggestion, a thought) is that maybe the people you're showing clojure to should find their own editor
22:40	devn	and you should try to be as agnostic as possible
22:41	devn	let that happen naturally maybe?
22:41	jweiss	devn: yeah some of them might want to use vim, but i can't help them with that. none of them already know emacs.
22:41	devn	jweiss: vimclojure-easy makes it...easy
22:41	jweiss	so i want to start with something where they're not totally on their own.
22:41	devn	i was vimclojuring with the best of them in about 4 hours
22:41	jweiss	devn: will you come work for us :)
22:41	devn	jweiss: sure!
22:42	devn	:)
22:42	devn	err
22:42	devn	"with"
22:42	devn	maybe not "for" :)
22:42	fil512	hello
22:42	jweiss	yeah that is what i meant
22:42	jweiss	"us" being the company (red hat)
22:42	devn	oh, cool!
22:42	fil512	could someone help a clojure noob?
22:42	fil512	I'm getting an error I dont understand.
22:42	devn	fil512: that's what we're here for :)
22:42	fil512	(defn records-by-host [records]
22:42	fil512	(index records [:host]))
22:42	fil512	Unable to resolve symbol: index in this context
22:43	devn	fil512: that means index is not defined in the context you're trying to use it
22:43	devn	where is "index" in your project?
22:43	fil512	I figured that. :-)
22:44	fil512	http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.set/index
22:44	devn	jweiss: no foolin', I'd be happy to come hang out for a week at some point if that works with your team
22:44	fil512	I want to use this
22:44	fil512	isn't it built-in?
22:44	devn	fil512: no, it needs requiring or using
22:44	fil512	oh...
22:44	fil512	so I need clojure.set?
22:44	devn	(ns mynamespace.foo (:require [clojure.set :as set]))
22:44	jweiss	devn: are you in the raleigh area? i know we met at last year's conj but don't remember where you're from
22:44	devn	nod
22:44	fil512	sweet
22:44	fil512	thanks
22:45	xeqi	with that require use (set/index ..)
22:45	devn	fil512: (set/index #{'fun 'stuff} [:host])
22:45	devn	jweiss: why not talk to relevance? their training is fantastic
22:46	fil512	when should i use "use" vs. "require"?
22:46	xeqi	fil512: what version of clojure are you using?
22:46	jweiss	devn, yeah, they're doing a 4-day thing in durham next month, $1800 a pop though
22:46	fil512	1.4
22:46	devn	fil512: when you're eating a big enchilada, err on the side of (:require foo :as bar)]
22:46	jweiss	don't think my manager is ready for that
22:47	devn	fil512: when you're using :use, think: (:use foo :only (x y))
22:47	fil512	what about when I'm bringing in my stuff vs. external stuff?
22:47	devn	fil512: the goal is to always limit your exposure to other namespaces
22:47	brehaut	do you mean (:use [foo :only [x y]]) ?
22:47	jweiss	i am happy to train my co-workers, up to a point. i mean, i got pretty far on my own without any training. just some help from the friendly folks in this channel.
22:48	devn	brehaut: yeah
22:48	devn	jweiss: it's hard.
22:48	devn	jweiss: i know this sounds nutty, but i think 1800/person is worth it.
22:49	devn	jweiss: granted you need to have smart enough people to absorb it
22:49	devn	s/smart/dedicated
22:49	fil512	anyone here use eclipse?
22:49	jweiss	devn: yeah, i think they are still at the stage where they are pretty skeptical that the effort is worth it.
22:49	devn	jweiss: so you gotta prove it, eh?
22:50	devn	jweiss: find someone awesome in your crew and inspire them to rewrite an ugly project you have internally in clojure
22:50	jweiss	devn, yup. it's been pretty exhausting fighting off the haters
22:51	devn	show people side-by-side clojure vs X
22:51	devn	that changes minds fast
22:51	devn	dont be arrogant, just show them
22:51	fil512	what if they say the code is unmaintainable
22:52	devn	fil512: Ask them what they mean.
22:52	fil512	if an intermediate developer walks up to a big pile of java code, they can understand what's going on pretty quickly. can the same be said for a big clojure program?
22:52	devn	"This code is unmaintainable!" -- Person looking for an argument
22:52	devn	fil512: moreso
22:52	jweiss	devn - i think we're heading in the right direction, people are interested. i think i showed off the speed of interactive development that other languages struggle to match
22:53	devn	fil512: if someone can handle a big java program they should run 100 circles around clojure
22:53	devn	the codepaths are simple, less deep, obvious
22:53	devn	the only thing it might hurt is their ego if they're known for being mr. smarty pants
22:53	fil512	how do i get the type of a var? e.g. set vs. map
22:54	fil512	i'd like my test to assert on type
22:54	devn	,(type {:a 1 :b 2})
22:54	clojurebot	clojure.lang.PersistentArrayMap
22:54	devn	,(type #{:a :b :c})
22:54	clojurebot	clojure.lang.PersistentHashSet
22:55	tmciver	fil512: or use set?, map?
22:55	devn	or those ;)
22:55	fil512	i like set? better!
22:55	fil512	thanks!
22:55	devn	damned tmciver skipping the pain of learning
22:55	devn	:D
22:55	fil512	any1 know if eclipse plug-in does auto-indent--unindented code is driving me crazy!
22:56	kaoD	fil512: it does
22:56	fil512	ctrl-shift-F doesn't work
22:56	devn	ccw re-implemented paredit
22:57	fil512	which is the usual binding
22:57	fil512	how do i do it?
22:57	devn	lpetit is a crazy sonofabitch
22:57	devn	i find it hard to believe he missed things
22:57	kaoD	fil512: not sure, but IIRC there's a "autoindent code" button somewhere
22:57	fil512	iirc?
22:58	metellus	if I remember correctly
22:58	kaoD	if I recall correctly
22:58	kaoD	or remember, I'm never sure of the meaning of remember/recall
22:58	kaoD	fil512: try right clicking on the file.clj
22:58	metellus	...I was in the middle of typing "or recall"
22:58	fil512	there is something called "indent-line" but it does nothing
22:58	kaoD	lol
22:58	clojurebot	No entiendo
22:58	kaoD	yo tampoco entiendo, clojurebot
22:59	fil512	i find it so hard to code without auto-indenting! yarrg!
23:01	fil512	found it. it's the tab key! :-/
23:06	fil512	is there a version of clojure.set.index that doesn't lose my ordering?
23:07	fil512	right now it's giving me back a set which loses the ordering
23:07	fil512	(I started with a vector of ordered records)
23:09	tmciver	fil512: I'm not sure what you're trying to do but have you looked at group-by?
23:09	tmciver	,(doc group-by)
23:09	clojurebot	"([f coll]); Returns a map of the elements of coll keyed by the result of f on each element. The value at each key will be a vector of the corresponding elements, in the order they appeared in coll."
23:10	xeqi	fil512: clojure's sets don't have an order
23:10	xeqi	you might look at https://github.com/flatland/ordered if you really need them
23:10	fil512	you are a clojure god. group-by is exactly what i need
23:10	fil512	if it's clojure.core do i need a require?
23:11	tmciver	ha! he doesn't know me very well. :/
23:11	gfredericks	no
23:11	gfredericks	every morning the newbs got up early and gathered parens for the afternoon sacrifice to the clojure gods
23:12	fil512	lol
23:16	fil512	I need a function that does something like this: [["a" 1] ["b" 5] ["c" 7]] => [["a" "b"] 4] [["b" "c"] 2]
23:16	fil512	i.e. report on successive deltas
23:17	gfredericks	partition will be a good start
23:18	gfredericks	&((fn [coll] (->> coll (partition 2 1) (map (fn [[[a x] [b y]]] [[a b] (- y x)])))) [["a" 1] ["b" 5] ["c" 7]])
23:18	lazybot	⇒ ([["a" "b"] 4] [["b" "c"] 2])
23:19	tmciver	(inc gfredericks)
23:19	lazybot	⇒ 5
23:19	fil512	is there a REPL listening in on this conversation?
23:20	ache	two bots
23:20	ache	which can evaluate
23:20	fil512	so damn cool
23:21	gfredericks	,(println "I am clojurebot, and this is lazybot. Say ##(println \"hi, lazybot\")")
23:21	clojurebot	I am clojurebot, and this is lazybot. Say ##(println "hi, lazybot")
23:21	lazybot	⇒ hi, lazybot nil
23:21	gfredericks	eh. you can only animate them so much.
23:21	fil512	lol
23:22	creese	I need to profile my code. Can someone point me to a page or doc that describes current best practices?
23:22	fil512	thanks folks you were a big help to a noob.
23:31	chouser	enlive is failing me
23:31	chouser	it held such promise. I had such hope!
23:31	Raynes	chouser: I've been where you are. We should form a support group.
23:32	brehaut	lol
23:32	brehaut	are you still bitter raynes?
23:32	Raynes	At least he fixed my bug.
23:32	Raynes	>_>
23:33	chouser	I'm trying to insert unparsed html and I can't get it to do what I want.
23:33	brehaut	(html-content …) not working?
23:36	chouser	no it's not, although it may be tagsoup's fault
23:36	brehaut	are you using html5 elements by chance?
23:37	chouser	The html I'm providing appears to be well-formed, but by the time enlive emits it, it's been rearranged incorrectly.
23:37	chouser	nope. ul, li
23:38	brehaut	if you do (emit* (html-snippet html-str)) does it garble it?
23:38	chouser	just did that.
23:38	chouser	yes it does
23:39	chouser	(apply str (#'enlive/emit (first (enlive/html-snippet "<div><ul><li>a</li><ul><li>b</li></ul></ul></div>")) nil))
23:39	chouser	"<div><ul><li>a</li></ul><ul><li>b</li></ul></div>"
23:39	chouser	that is, b is meant to be indented more deeply than a, but they come out siblings in two separate ul's
23:40	chouser	So I guess I'll try to either get it to emit the raw text directly, or find a better parser
23:40	brehaut	try <div><ul><li>a</li><li><ul><li>b</li></ul></li></ul></div>
23:40	chouser	I wonder if tagsoup has options I can control here.
23:40	brehaut	(wrapping the inner ul in an li)
23:40	brehaut	(and im just guessing there)
23:41	chouser	leaving out the </li> closers seems to help, but that's not an acceptable option for this
23:41	chouser	I've got a lot of content flowing in this way and shouldn't be tweaking it
23:41	xeqi	I don't think <ul><ul> is valid
23:42	brehaut	i think the validity or not of the ul without a wrapping li is very doctype dependant
23:42	devn	enlive...
23:42	xeqi	true, I was jumping to html5
23:44	devn	chouser: look into nekohtml
23:45	chouser	meh. I didn't really want to be parsing this html.
23:45	chouser	I wonder if I can convince enlive to just emit the string without parsing it or escaping it.
23:45	devn	dont use enlive
23:45	brehaut	yeah it would. ive wanted that more than once
23:45	devn	square peg, round hole
23:46	devn	it's a clojure 1.1.0 project turned quasi-idiomatic
23:46	gfredericks	chouser: come on man, just use a regex. what could go wrong?
23:46	devn	it scared the living daylights out of me
23:46	devn	scares*
23:47	chouser	ok, all I really want is way to use plain html as a template
23:47	devn	chouser: can you post the document and the intended result?
23:47	brehaut	chouser: i havent used it myself, but dsantiago's tinsel might work?
23:48	brehaut	although its possible also tagsoup based
23:48	devn	chouser: are you tied to plain html?
23:48	devn	so many questions...
23:49	chouser	plain html so that the template can be viewed correctly in a browser
23:50	chouser	then I have content I'd like to place into that template -- the content is coming from an atom feed, so there are some plain strings but several chunks of html as cdata
23:50	devn	must you always have complicated questions? ;)
23:51	devn	so unfortunately, or fortunately, enlive as a tool seems to fit that bill
23:51	devn	and yet, i've never had anything but headaches with enlive
23:51	devn	maybe (likely) im dense
23:52	chouser	I wish I hadn't screwed up data.zip for rewriting, or I could use that throughout
23:52	devn	but i just dont enjoy using it
23:52	chouser	hm, actually ...
23:53	brehaut	just use enlive to suck in the template, and do al lthe transformations with data.zip ?
23:54	chouser	I'm parsing the atom feed find with data.zip, and parsing the template fine with enlive. But plopping unparsed html from the feed into the template is apparently outside enlives capabilities.
23:54	muhoo	i've had a pleasant experience with mustache for templatting
23:55	muhoo	specifically, stencil: http://www.google.com/url?q=https://github.com/davidsantiago/stencil&sa=U&ei=xySzT4yhHIiJiALZybT4AQ&ved=0CBEQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNGveEdvH3zgetwhvsTnrssteX3S7g
23:55	muhoo	gah
23:55	muhoo	https://github.com/davidsantiago/stencil
23:55	brehaut	chouser: the format that enlive uses for html is compatible with the data.zip xml format though right?
23:56	wkmanire1	:( I ran out of internet for a few minutes.
23:56	muhoo	wkmanire1: you got to keep putting quarters into it, man.
23:58	chouser	brehaut: I'm not sure that matters. I'm getting html that was cdata in the feed, so an unparsed string of html.
23:58	chouser	brehaut: if I use html-content to insert it in the template, tagsoup misinterprets it
23:59	brehaut	chouser: right sorry, i mean just use enlive to suck in your template html, and then use data.zip to stick the text into place ?
23:59	brehaut	(without processing that text)