#clojure – 2012-03-25

2012-03-25

00:00	alandipert	mk: (doseq [x xs] (println x)) would do it
00:01	mk	alandipert: why wasn't my (map println [1 2 3]) working as expected?
00:02	alandipert	it returns the seq of println mapped over 1 2 3, and println always returns nil
00:02	alandipert	doseq always returns just nil
00:03	alandipert	(it's for side effects like printing, vs. map, which is for working with values)
00:04	mk	ah, which means map is lazy
00:04	mk	alandipert: thanks
00:05	yoklov	you could (dorun (map println '(1 2 3)))
00:05	alandipert	mk: right, and np.
00:05	yoklov	(which returns nil instead of a seq of nils)
00:07	mk	interesting. It seems like those are effectively equivalent?
00:08	yoklov	oh
00:08	mk	(I don't actually know if they are, but it seems they do the same thing, since dorun is for producing effects)
00:09	yoklov	they are no
00:09	yoklov	t
00:09	yoklov	,(doseq [a '(1 2 3)] (prn a))
00:09	clojurebot	1
00:09	clojurebot	2
00:09	clojurebot	3
00:09	yoklov	,(dorun (map prn '(1 2 3)))
00:09	clojurebot	1
00:09	clojurebot	2
00:09	clojurebot	3
00:10	mk	...are you sure?
00:10	yoklov	i mean
00:10	yoklov	(map prn '(1 2 3))
00:11	yoklov	retuns a seq
00:11	yoklov	which when e forced prints some stuff
00:11	yoklov	dorun takes that and forces everything
00:11	yoklov	wheras doseq takes a seq, and does some stuff to it, forcing it in the process
00:12	yoklov	with dorun your seq could be produced elsewhere
00:13	mk	,(time (dorun (map prn '())))
00:13	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 0.145 msecs"
00:13	mk	,(time (doseq [a '()] (prn a)))
00:13	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 0.964 msecs"
00:13	yoklov	also doseq is a macro, and dorun is a function
00:13	yoklov	i'd assume their performance is the same and clojurebot is being weird
00:14	yoklov	maybe not.
00:14	mk	factor of 10:1 on my repl. Interesting
00:16	mk	yoklov: by the way, how was your port of the game turning out?
00:17	yoklov	haha, i haven't gotten too far, gonna work on it more tomorrow. friends of mine who were worrying for my sanity convinced me i should go out tonight instead of just staying inside and writing code :p
00:18	Frozenlo`	And he calls himself a friend? tsss
00:18	mk	pfft, some friends you have ;)
00:18	yoklov	seriously, what jerks
00:23	mk	hmm, there's no set of all namespaces?
00:24	mk	,ns; only shows the current, while (all-ns) returns a seq...
00:24	clojurebot	#<Namespace sandbox>
00:27	yoklov	just do (set (all-ns))?
00:30	mk	yoklov: I was thinking of trying to break things by messing with the real all-ns-set - looks like it's hidden behind clojure.lang.Namespace/all, though
00:35	yoklov	https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/Namespace.java yeah i don't think you can get at that
00:36	cgag	how do I set a property in clojurescript?
00:38	yoklov	oh
00:38	qbg	Hmm... Calling a function with ints boxed in a mutable wrapper is only 50% slower than calling a function that takes primitive ints it looks like
00:38	yoklov	(set! (.-prop obj) val)
00:38	yoklov	i think
00:38	yoklov	should work.
00:41	cgag	that worked, thanks
00:41	yoklov	awesome
00:41	cgag	are there any resources on clojurescript? i didn't seem much on the documentation on the repo
00:42	yoklov	i don't really know, to be honest. i've been going mostly by code in libraries and knowledge of clojure
00:44	cgag	yeah that's what i've been doing so far
00:50	yoklov	also the compiler is in clojure so its fairly readable
00:51	yoklov	dunno how helpful it is, but its certainly interesting
01:35	mk	(doc +')
01:35	clojurebot	"([] [x] [x y] [x y & more]); Returns the sum of nums. (+) returns 0. Supports arbitrary precision. See also: +"
01:37	mk	,'+'
01:37	clojurebot	+'
01:38	mk	strange, the ccw repl seems broken. I get +\n#<Exception java.lang.Exception: EOF while reading> when trying '+'
01:39	amalloy	that was not valid syntax in 1.2, so the ccw repl is probably running on 1.2
01:40	mk	hmm, yes: "1.2.0"
01:40	mk	that's rather annoying - how can I update?
01:41	amalloy	shrug ask someone who knows anything about ccw. maybe cemerick or lpetit?
01:44	mk	amalloy: I might try switching to something else. Thanks for catching that
03:25	muhoo	i've got some functions i tend to use a lot in the repl, what's the best way to have them around? create a project, make a jar of it, and add it to project.clj? or is there some other way?
03:29	muhoo	or just ln -s the file in, and then require it?
03:33	Raynes	muhoo: Lein 2?
03:33	Raynes	muhoo: If you're using lein 2 you can edit ~/.lein/profiles and add it to your :user profile.
03:34	Raynes	Now go upgrade if you haven't already.
03:49	amalloy	muhoo: i recommend making a utility project for them
03:49	amalloy	then you can use them in actual programs you write, not just repl experimentation
03:50	muhoo	amalloy: that's what i kind of thought, thanks.
03:51	amalloy	if you want, you can start by forking mine from http://github.com/flatland/useful - it probably includes some of the things you want already, and should provide a reasonable base for adding more
03:53	muhoo	i saw that, it was very, er, useful. i'm pretty sure the stuff i'm doing is a lot more pedestrian
03:54	muhoo	like, my stuff is baby steps still, and i'm sure i'll end up using useful at some point.
03:55	muhoo	e.g., this is the kind of stuff i ended up typing over and over again and decided, finally, to make a library of it: https://refheap.com/paste/1358
03:56	muhoo	like a blind man feeling his way around a dark room with a single candle, still.
03:57	muhoo	oh, so that's where assoc-in! is!
03:58	muhoo	i saw clutch examples used assoc-in! and i couldn't find it anywhere. i guess it was in useful all along.
03:58	amalloy	i doubt if cemerick is using useful; it's probably someone else's
04:01	muhoo	Raynes: yes, i'll try lein2 at some point. as of now, i'm still trying not to change anything that'll confuse or disorient me any more than i already am :-)
04:14	Raynes	Man.
04:14	Raynes	Utility libraries make me want to stab myself in the face.
04:15	mk	Raynes: why's that?
04:17	Raynes	Because they do nothing but grow. They start out as "Here is a few of my favorite things!" and turn into giant libraries of unrelated things. The best you can hope for is some semblance of structure and organization, but in the end it is still a giant mess of things someone has thought up over the past two years.
04:18	Raynes	"Ah, this is a nice function. But there are a thousand other nice functions. My options are to depend on this giant utility library or copy this code and thus duplicate functionality. My head. IT BURNS!"
04:21	mk	I think that's a problem of organization. I'm not a fan of huge files. If there's something that can be used independently, it should have its own file
04:24	mk	I'd just copy the code if I were you
04:30	Znudzon	Hi i have installed clojure 1.3 but now i would like to install contrib libs. I 've made everything from the install instructions but i still dont have the .jar file but a lots of directories with lisb . What now ?
05:18	gtuckerkellogg	can one run tests on a leiningen project from swank?
05:19	amalloy	gtuckerkellogg: you probably want clojure-test-mode
05:20	gtuckerkellogg	amalloy, that does sound like somethnig i would want, doesn't it!
05:20	gtuckerkellogg	thanks
05:20	gtuckerkellogg	and btw, amalloy, i like your clojopts rep
05:21	amalloy	that makes one of us!
05:21	gtuckerkellogg	:)
05:25	gtuckerkellogg	amalloy, that is one fantastic mode. wow
05:29	amalloy	then i should learn to use it :P. i'm still in the stone age of testing
05:36	gtuckerkellogg	i create a lot of bugs, so i like testing
05:54	khaliG	anyone alive?
05:55	khaliG	I need to recur twice in a function but the compiler says can only recur from tail position
05:55	AimHere	Well both places you're recurring from ought to be the tail position
05:55	khaliG	http://pastebin.com/fdjMBhMG
05:55	clojurebot	Huh?
05:56	AimHere	What 'tail position' means is that no operations are happening to the results of the recur before the result is returned
05:56	khaliG	impossible, gotcha :)
05:56	khaliG	now to figure out how to write inline java grin
05:57	AimHere	Well often you can rewrite functions to be tail recursive, or make slightly-different functions that do the same job (the 'loop' function helps with this)
05:57	AimHere	the latter being functions that take a bunch of parameters
05:58	AimHere	Not sure how you'd do it for your function though
05:58	AimHere	*different bunch of parameters
05:58	khaliG	yeah dunno im probably using the wrong language
06:00	khaliG	hm wait there isn't any issue if I don't use the recur keyword
06:00	khaliG	which i suppose is where I went wrong
06:00	khaliG	thanks AimHere
06:02	AimHere	Well that code, if it works at all, seems to be out of the functional-idiom; I can't tell because I don't know what merge* does, though
06:03	khaliG	right, it's basically mutating the array A recursively. I got it out of a textbook
06:04	AimHere	Fair enough; Clojure tends to default to functional style, and would just return a new merged array from the old rather than mutating things
06:04	AimHere	At least it's users would ;)
06:04	khaliG	hmmm understood :)
06:38	deobald	Anyone around? swank-clojure is barfing on `Unable to resolve classname: BufferedReader` on a friend's Mac (1.6.8). I can run JRuby's irb and `lein repl`, so Java's not completely broken. Is swank-clojure looking for the Java classes in the wrong place somehow?
08:22	hyperboreean	how do you sort a list of maps by a key's map in clojure? (I am looking for something like python's sorted(lst, key = lambda t: t['price']). Should I use a sorted map instead ?
08:23	hyperboreean	map's key that is
08:48	kij	Hey, The reductions example here, http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Clojure_Programming/Examples/Lazy_Fibonacci#Recursive_Version seems be self-referencing, was that valid as some point? and what would the syntax be now ?
09:15	gfredericks	kij: that doesn't work?
09:16	AimHere	I just tried it, it works
09:17	gfredericks	another mystery solved
09:17	AimHere	kij > The trick with that is that you don't need the self-reference for the first two members of the sequence, and the laziness stops the sequence from being an infinite regression at any one point in time
09:20	AimHere	Well okay, the second variant, with the reductions doesn't work
09:22	AimHere	kij > (lazy-cat [1] (reductions + ....) works
10:10	wmealing	i have a class with a dash, but the file name that midje tests/looks for has an underscore. Is this expected ?
10:10	wmealing	should there be no dashes in clojure filenames ?
10:10	gfredericks	wmealing: correct; from the java side all dashes are underscores
10:11	gfredericks	that's filenames and class/package names mostly
10:11	wmealing	ok
10:11	wmealing	not what i expected, but as long as its across the board.
10:11	wmealing	thanks gfrederi`
10:11	wmealing	oops, gfredericks
10:11	gfredericks	yessir
10:12	gfredericks	huh I must be logged on somewhere else o_O
10:50	Scorchin	Is it possible to use regex with (case ..) ?
10:52	gfredericks	your question is ambiguous but I expect no either way
11:16	mmajchrzak	Is there any gui lib for clojure ? I know that i can still use libs from java but for my its too complicated with bigger aps.
11:17	AimHere	Seesaw is a clojureish wrapper around swing, which might make some things neater for you
11:18	mmajchrzak	thak you I will check this on google :)
11:18	RickInGA	here's a cool seesaw tutorial http://blog.darevay.com/2011/12/a-seesaw-tutorial/
11:26	Frozenlock	How does one get the value of a class? By that I mean the value written when doing 'C-c I' in slime.
11:26	Frozenlock	Or rather let met explain my master plan. Perhaps I have the wrong approach.
11:26	Frozenlock	I have multiple 'properties' all stored with different java classes. Here is an example on how I need to access the data with the current library: (-> data-storage (.get object-ID Property-ID)). I would like to transfer all this info into a map of this form: {:object1 {:Property1 value :Property2 value} :object2...
11:26	Frozenlock
11:27	Frozenlock	In addition, I would like to drop all the special classes in the process. For example, for the CharacterString class, I would like to simply store the string such as "this is my string" instead of #<CharacterString this is my string>.
12:08	mk	Frozenlock: did you solve your problem?
12:08	Frozenlock	yes and no... I'm making a function that retrieves every properties. It might take a while. :)
12:09	Frozenlock	And usually when it takes a while, I'm doing something wrong.
12:09	dnolen	core.logic occurs-check is way more expensive in JS than on the JVM
12:11	mk	Frozenlock: what did you mean by the value of a class? getClass?
12:19	Frozenlock	I wasn't clear, I apologize. Say I have this object PropertyIdentifier/presentValue (of the class PropertyIdentifier). I would like to get the value shown when I inspect it with 'C-c I'. In this case, its value is "Present Value".
12:20	andre27	ciao
12:20	Frozenlock	I'm still new to all this object/class/method thing, I really might confuse them...
12:22	mk	Frozenlock: you want to get the return value of a method?
12:22	mk	or is that an attribute?
12:22	Frozenlock	Not a method, so I would say attribute.
12:23	Frozenlock	Ok wait, I have an example
12:23	mk	(also called a property, I guess)
12:23	Frozenlock	Say (def test1 "hello")
12:24	Frozenlock	Its value is "hello" when inspected with 'C-c I' (obiously).
12:24	Frozenlock	I could just type test1 in the REPL and get the answer.
12:24	mk	Frozenlock: I don't use emacs, but I follow you so far
12:25	Frozenlock	However with my PropertyIdentifier/presentValue, I get a java object returned in the REPL
12:25	Frozenlock	--> #<PropertyIdentifier Present value>
12:25	Frozenlock	How can I get the 'Present value' part?
12:27	Frozenlock	In other words, I want to get rid of the java part and only keep a string or symbol 'Present value'.
12:29	mk	Frozenlock: is PropertyIdentifier/presentValue simply a static field, like Math/PI ?
12:30	Frozenlock	I suppose so.
12:30	mk	what's (type Prope...) ?
12:30	Frozenlock	..type.enumerated.PropertyIdentifier
12:31	Frozenlock	But when you type Math/PI, you get the value, not simply --> #<Math PI>
12:31	mk	Frozenlock: right, because:
12:32	mk	,(type Math/PI)
12:32	clojurebot	java.lang.Double
12:32	raek	Frozenlock: do you have a link to the javadoc?
12:33	Frozenlock	Yes, brb.
12:33	mk	so your class Prop..Id.. has a static field of type PropId. Presumably the toString method returns a string, which you see in your repl
12:33	raek	java only has fields and methods. I supspect these properties are objects defined by the library
12:34	Frozenlock	http://sourceforge.net/projects/bacnet4j/files/bacnet4j/1.2/
12:34	raek	yeah, when you see #<Foo bar> in the repl, it means that you have an object of class Foo whose toString method returns "bar"
12:35	Frozenlock	So I could use toString? Let met try that...
12:35	Frozenlock	Oh wow.
12:35	Frozenlock	So simple.
12:35	Frozenlock	Yet I was so far away.
12:35	raek	Frozenlock: if the javadoc of PropertyIdentifier says you should use toString do it
12:35	mk	Frozenlock: it might be easier to get the field that toString uses
12:36	Frozenlock	mk: how can I get this field? .getfield or something like that?
12:37	raek	Frozenlock: do you have any java code example for what you are trying to do?
12:37	raek	it's much simpler if we can see some sort of documentation of how these classes are supposed to be used
12:37	mk	Frozenlock: I'm looking at the class docs, and it's a class with many static members
12:37	Frozenlock	raek: Indeed... I see now that .toString is the only method for this class in the doc.
12:38	raek	your questions are not anymore about java in general, but specifically about this library
12:38	Frozenlock	raek: I'm sorry, I still don't see where the line is between java/libraries.
12:39	raek	Frozenlock: are you sure the PropertyIdentifier actually holds the value?
12:39	Frozenlock	I do have examples on how the java code works. No problem there, I've translated most of what I needed.
12:40	mk	Frozenlock: are you writing out every single property in the PropertyIdentifier class? you don't need to
12:40	raek	and that it isn't some key of some sort that is used to extract a value from another object
12:40	Frozenlock	raek: it's exactly that.
12:41	raek	then you can't get the value using only the property identifier, I gess?
12:41	Frozenlock	But I want to put everything in a map with my own keys. {:present-value data}
12:42	Frozenlock	raek: No. I have the key associated value. What I wanted was the PropertyIdentifier name, so I could use it in making my own map.
12:42	mk	Frozenlock: ok, so the PI object has a bunch of static fields - acceptedModes, ackedTransitions, etc., about 50 of them. You want to use those as your keys
12:42	raek	well, if I understand you correctly, then :present-value corresponds to PropertyIdentifier/presentValue
12:42	Frozenlock	mk: yes
12:42	Frozenlock	Yes it does.
12:42	raek	and you're asking how to perform something like (get m :present-value)?
12:43	raek	but we don't know what m corresponds to in the java lib
12:43	mk	however, whoever made this library ... ok, wow, yeah.
12:44	raek	you're probably looking for something like (.getProperty some-object PropertyIdentifier/presentValue)
12:44	Frozenlock	raek: No, I was asking at the very beginning if there was a way to easily transfer the info to a map. Then I asked a more precise question with the goal of obtaining the present-value key, which I did, thanks to you :)
12:44	raek	ok, I didn't see the whole backlog
12:44	Frozenlock	mk: wow in which direction? Wow ugly, wow great?
12:45	mk	what's a decent pastebin for clojure?
12:45	raek	mk: refheap
12:45	raek	Frozenlock: so which class does the map-like object have?
12:45	mk	Frozenlock: "wow this could be done totally differently in clojure"
12:46	raek	you can probably transform that object into a map pretty easily
12:46	mk	https://refheap.com/paste/1359
12:46	raek	but the solution will be spicific to this library
12:46	mk	that's the source of the object
12:46	Frozenlock	raek: Class PropertyValues
12:46	Bronsa	wow.
12:47	raek	yikes.
12:47	raek	I'm glad we have macros in clojure-land
12:48	Frozenlock	raek: At least I can! :D
12:48	Frozenlock	I wouldn't want to stay in those java calls...
12:49	scriptor	is any of that code generated?
12:49	scriptor	I don't use java at all, but I've heard ide's like eclipse now do a good bit of code generation and manipulation for you
12:49	mk	...this class extends 4 further classes
12:50	mk	scriptor: I'll hazard a guess and say "no"
12:50	scriptor	damn
12:50	raek	Frozenlock: I think I misunderstood your original question. were you asking how to go from an instance of PropertyIdentifier for present value to something like :present-value?
12:51	raek	and back again?
12:51	Frozenlock	raek: only the first part. But both ways could be handy too :P
12:51	mk	raek: I think Frozenlock wants the tostring values of each PI that the PI lists as a static field
12:52	raek	right.
12:52	raek	I was confused by "the value of a PropertyIdentifier"
12:52	raek	the toString method seems to solve the problem
12:52	Frozenlock	I apologize, like I said, I do not master the vocabulary yet.
12:53	Frozenlock	Indeed.
12:53	raek	but you could also use reflection to get the name of the class as a string
12:53	Frozenlock	PropertyIdentifier
12:53	Frozenlock	Is there a way to list all static fields?
12:53	raek	Frozenlock: no worries, everytihng is clear now... :-)
12:53	mk	raek: rightly so - its value is, for some strange reason, implemented strictly as its toString value
12:53	raek	yes
12:53	raek	reflection
12:54	mk	Frozenlock: yes, I'm looking up the reflection code you need
12:54	raek	the java reflection api is a bit verbose
12:54	Frozenlock	Thanks to you both, I really appreciate your help :D
12:58	raek	there are some convenient methods in clojure.lang.Reflector to go from class + name of field to value of field
12:58	mk	how does one get the Class of a class?
12:59	raek	it will always be java.lang.Class
13:00	mk	right, but how do I get the instance?
13:00	raek	(the generic parameter does not exist after compilation in java)
13:00	raek	mk: just write java.lang.Class
13:00	raek	or (class (class some-object))
13:00	raek	Frozenlock: http://www.jarvana.com/jarvana/view/org/clojure/clojure/1.3.0/clojure-1.3.0-javadoc.jar!/clojure/lang/Reflector.html#getStaticField(java.lang.String, java.lang.String)
13:01	raek	,(class (class 123))
13:01	clojurebot	java.lang.Class
13:01	mk	I want the class of ScaryPropertyThing without having to do SPT.field.getClass
13:01	raek	or did you mean the Class object given its name?
13:01	mk	roughly, yes
13:02	raek	in clojure you just write the class name directly in the code (if you know it when you write)
13:02	raek	if you need to do the translation programatically, you need to use reflection
13:03	raek	,(class 123)
13:03	clojurebot	java.lang.Long
13:03	raek	,java.lang.Long
13:03	clojurebot	java.lang.Long
13:03	raek	,(class java.lang.Long)
13:03	clojurebot	java.lang.Class
13:03	mk	oh, well then :)
13:03	raek	the repl prints classes like symbols...
13:04	Frozenlock	raek: with this I can use getStaticField to get the fields, is that right?
13:04	raek	but the reflection way is pretty simple too: (Class/forName "java.lang.Long")
13:04	raek	Frozenlock: if the property is a field, then yes
13:05	raek	oh sorry
13:05	raek	yeah
13:06	raek	PropertyIdentifier/foo = (Reflector/getStaticField "com.serotonin.bacnet4j.type.enumerated.PropertyIdentifier" "foo")
13:06	raek	Frozenlock: ^
13:07	raek	or simply (Reflector/getStaticField PropertyIdentifier "foo")
13:07	Frozenlock	Wait wait, I'm still trying to require the Reflector library...
13:08	mk	,(map #(.getName %) (.getFields (Class/forName "java.lang.Math")))
13:08	clojurebot	("E" "PI")
13:08	raek	(ns ... (:import com.serotonin.bacnet4j.type.enumerated.PropertyIdentifier clojure.lang.Reflector))
13:08	raek	or (import 'com.serotonin.bacnet4j.type.enumerated.PropertyIdentifier) (import 'clojure.lang.Reflector)
13:09	Frozenlock	It's not in clojure core?
13:09	Frozenlock	(I need to dowload it?)
13:09	mk	you probably don't need the reflector. Just use the toString method
13:09	raek	no, it's in the implementation of clojure
13:10	mk	you actually can't get the value of the object any other way, since toString generates the value based on an int
13:10	Frozenlock	Oh I need to 'import'!
13:10	raek	mk: yes, but I still think reflection is needed for the reverse case (string to PropertyIdentifier instance)
13:11	mk	raek: I don't think it's possible to do that in that way, the string values are inside toString
13:12	raek	yes, but using getStaticField you can go from "foo" to the value PropertyIdentifier/foo would return
13:13	raek	so the internal string is not used
13:13	raek	only the name of the field
13:13	mk	so you're talking about a mapping from the key to the PropIdent object - gotcha
13:14	raek	yikes. that author has really missed the whole enum thing
13:14	Frozenlock	How can I list every static fields?
13:15	mk	Frozenlock: I pasted the code above
13:15	Frozenlock	,(map #(.getName %) (.getFields (Class/forName "java.lang.Math")))
13:15	raek	this is essentially what the java compiler generates when you type public enum {foo, bar}
13:15	clojurebot	("E" "PI")
13:16	raek	except that you ca[1~w[1~except that with enums you can go from string to instance too :-)
13:16	Frozenlock	mk: works flawlessly, thanks!
13:17	raek	automatation FTW
13:18	Frozenlock	Yeah, I was worried I would have to hardcode every single field.
13:18	raek	if you want to be really pedantic you can filter the fields to only see the static and public ones
13:22	raek	(for [field (.getFields java.lang.Math), :let [mod (.getModifiers field)], :when (and (Modifier/isPublic mod) (Modifier/isStatic mod))] (.getName field))
13:22	mk	what's the code for doing a map, but keeping the map? (??? identity '(1 2)) -> {1 1 2 2}
13:23	raek	zipmap maybe?
13:23	raek	&(let [coll (range 5)] (zipmap coll (map str coll)))
13:23	lazybot	⇒ {4 "4", 3 "3", 2 "2", 1 "1", 0 "0"}
13:24	Frozenlock	raek: modifier?
13:24	mk	zipmap zips two collections - I want a version of map that keeps the mapping
13:24	raek	Frozenlock: java.lang.reflect.Modifier
13:24	raek	sorry :-)
13:24	raek	mk: and also produces a map instead of a lazy sequence?
13:24	mk	(map inc (1)) gives (2), I want {1 2}
13:25	raek	&(into {} (map (juxt identity inc) (range 5)))
13:25	lazybot	⇒ {0 1, 1 2, 2 3, 3 4, 4 5}
13:26	raek	you need (apply hash-map ...) (zipmap ...) (into {} ..) or something similar to get a map
13:27	raek	I would use zipmap if I had a sequence, a function and wanted to contruct a map from x to f(x)
13:29	raek	Frozenlock: another pedantic thing to do would be to limit the results to the fields that have the correct type: (= (.getType field) Property.Identifier)
13:30	raek	but that's probably overkill in this case
13:30	Frozenlock	Better safe than sorry, thanks!
13:32	raek	mk: afaik, there is no function f in clojure.core that does (f str [1 2 3]) => {1 2, 2 3, 3 4} I'm afraid
13:33	raek	s/str/inc/
13:34	AimHere	raek > It's very easy to roll your own
13:35	AimHere	,((fn [f a] (zipmap a (map f a)) inc [1 2 3])
13:35	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
13:36	AimHere	,((fn [f a] (zipmap a (map f a))) inc [1 2 3])
13:36	clojurebot	{3 4, 2 3, 1 2}
13:36	raek	I can agree that it would be a useful function to have in the standard library though
13:37	mk	ok, here we go:
13:37	mk	,((fn [classname] (into {} (map (juxt #(.getName %) #(.toString (.get % nil))) (.getFields (Class/forName classname)))) )"java.lang.Math")
13:37	clojurebot	{"E" "2.718281828459045", "PI" "3.141592653589793"}
13:37	raek	ah cool :-)
13:37	Frozenlock	Ohhhh that's sexy!
13:49	mk	,(flatten '("one" "two"))
13:49	clojurebot	("one" "two")
13:50	mk	,(into {} (flatten (map #(list (.getName %) (.toString (.get % nil))) (.getFields java.lang.Math))))
13:50	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Character cannot be cast to java.util.Map$Entry>
13:50	mk	whats going on there?
13:51	mk	oh, I see
13:52	gfredericks	,(->> "java.lang.Math" Class/forName .getFields (map (juxt #(.getName %) #(.toString (.get % nil)))) (into {}))
13:52	clojurebot	{"E" "2.718281828459045", "PI" "3.141592653589793"}
13:54	mk	,(into {} (map #(vector (.getName %) (.toString (.get % nil))) (.getFields java.lang.Math)))
13:54	clojurebot	{"E" "2.718281828459045", "PI" "3.141592653589793"}
13:56	mk	what would it do?
13:57	gfredericks	maybe it could be the map-from-fn function we've all been wanting
13:58	mk	it has a bit of a priorityqueue or sorted feel to it
13:59	the-kenny	Like (victor identity inc [1 2 3]) -> {1 2, 2 3, 3 4} ?
14:00	gfredericks	the-kenny: that suggests interesting vararg possibilities
14:00	gfredericks	the-kenny: but no, I was thinking the identity was implicit
14:00	gfredericks	so just (victor inc [1 2 3])
14:00	mk	gfredericks: what sort of possibilities?
14:00	gfredericks	either multiple functions or multiple collections
14:01	the-kenny	gfredericks: Yeah, just added this for more possibility
14:01	mk	the multiple collections would serve as params?
14:01	gfredericks	maybe?
14:01	gfredericks	the-kenny: I like the idea of having 2-arg and 3-arg versions
14:02	mk	that's what map does
14:02	the-kenny	gfredericks: Yeah
14:03	gfredericks	(defn victor ([f coll] (victor identity f coll)) ([f1 f2 coll] (zipmap (map f1 coll) (map f2 coll))))
14:09	yoklov	hm, is there a list of the functions in the clojure api which aren't in clojurescript?
14:09	gfredericks	I doubt it; could be interesting to see how easily that could be generated though
14:11	the-kenny	There's a wiki page "Differences between Clojure & Clojurescript"
14:12	the-kenny	However, it's missing some things. Clojurescript sadly doesn't have `sorted-map' :(
14:12	yoklov	`shuffle` is also unimplemented
14:12	yoklov	which isn't documented anywhere i think
14:12	yoklov	which is why i asked haha
14:12	gfredericks	shuffle would be easy to add
14:13	yoklov	yeah, thats why i was surprised it hadn't been done
14:14	lynaghk	yoklov: Fisher-Yates in-place shuffle is implemented by Closure in goog.array.shuffle
14:14	lynaghk	yoklov: if you are okay with dropping down to JS
14:15	dnolen	emezeske: is there an easy way to get lein-cljsbuild to use a custom version of the clojurescript compiler?
14:15	yoklov	i am, how can you convert a collection to a js array (sorry, new to clojurescript)?
14:16	lynaghk	dnolen: thanks for that pointer to the LEARN PROLOG NOW! book, I've been reading that plus finally getting into the Reasoned Schemer copy that I got at the Conj.
14:16	donkeykong	hello, emacs newbie here... im trying to play with labrepl to get the hang of clojure. using emacs and clojure-jack-in. the repl starts fine and i can navigate to the labrepl webpage. however, when i evaluate (doc println) in the repl i get a "Unable to resolve symbol: doc in this context [Thrown class java.lang.RuntimeException]"
14:16	gfredericks	donkeykong: try (use 'clojure.repl) first
14:17	dnolen	lynaghk: np, Prolog lit really clarifies a lot of things, I'm thinking about putting together a core.logic basic that illustrates how to do basic conversions.
14:17	Frozenlock	donkeykong: with emacs, you should do 'C-c C-d d' on what you want more details.
14:17	lynaghk	yoklov: (array 1 2 3) will make a js array [1, 2, 3]. If you have something in CLJS, you can (apply array my-seq)
14:17	dnolen	core.logic basic wiki page I mean.
14:17	yoklov	lynaghk, thanks
14:17	Frozenlock	donkeykong: Or even M-. if you want to see the source
14:17	donkeykong	gfredericks: that works! thanks much.
14:17	lynaghk	dnolen: that would be pretty rad. Especially now that you have it working in CLJS---props on that, by the way.
14:18	donkeykong	Frozenlock: ok il keep that in mind. lots of keybindings to pick up, one step at a time!
14:18	Frozenlock	The joy of emacs :P
14:19	dnolen	lynaghk: thanks! Yeah I'm excited, interestingly core.logic seems to run equally fast under all the browser nightlies. I think people could actually design some really interesting logic libs that normal JS libs can consume.
14:20	qbg	It would be cool if the CLJS compiler could be compiled to JavaScript
14:20	Frozenlock	donkeykong: I also hope your on IRC with Emacs :P
14:20	lynaghk	dnolen: yeah, I haven't done much in the way of making CLJS libs accessible from plain JS, but I'll be figuring that out soon on a client project.
14:20	Frozenlock	*you're
14:20	lynaghk	I expect it's just a lot of ^:export
14:20	gfredericks	lynaghk: depends on if you want data structure translation too
14:21	donkeykong	Frozenlock: yes and it greets me with "Be happy for Emacs. Emacs is your life." -- Omar Khayyam
14:22	dnolen	qbg: probably possible and not that much work. I think once we have performant data structures, it will be more interesting to pursue.
14:22	lynaghk	gfredericks: yeah, that was the incredibly annoying lesson learned from cljs-d3 and one of the main reasons I rewrote it in plain Clojure
14:22	qbg	dnolen: Imagine ClojureScript as a browser plugin
14:22	qbg	No external deps!
14:22	gfredericks	lynaghk: I messed with that once. My solution was to generate an API namespace that had a wrapper for each public function and also did the data translation
14:23	gfredericks	I was talking to emezeske about whether or not that would be useful in cljs-build
14:23	gfredericks	part of the issue is there's no easy way to generate a separate namespace using cljs code or macros
14:24	lynaghk	gfredericks: some kind of macro that would automatically throw together a namespace with certain functions in it and wrap their args in translations?
14:24	gfredericks	lynaghk: yeah that's what I was thinking, but you can't really emit a namespace
14:24	gfredericks	at least not with the current compiler
14:24	gfredericks	so hooking into cljs-build would probably be the most straightforward option, whether that's by adding it to the cljs-build project proper or cljs-build providing hooks
14:26	lynaghk	gfredericks: I've been thinking about that problem in the context of clj/cljs code sharing; I'm working on something that would just emit generated sources, so you'd be free to make up as many new namespaces as you want
14:26	gfredericks	yeah I think that's how I did it initially; I can't remember if lein-cljsbuild existed at that point or not
14:27	gfredericks	lynaghk: what're you trying to achieve there that the cljsbuild crossovers don't?
14:27	dnolen	qbg: would be cool, probably inevitable really :)
14:28	qbg	Almost zero barrier to entry :)
14:28	lynaghk	gfredericks: there are some transformations that need to happen beyond just copying the files. For instance, in Clojure you extend clojure.lang.IFn with invoke. In ClojureScript it's IFn and -invoke
14:29	gfredericks	ah right
14:30	lynaghk	gfredericks: I've been looking into using Kibit to do those kind of rearrangements, and also filtering based on metadata so you can remove entire toplevel forms if necessary. E.g., in the source you'd define two sqrt functions; one annotated with ^:clj that uses (Math/sqrt x) and one annotated with ^:cljs that uses (.sqrt js/Math x).
14:30	gfredericks	lynaghk: I wonder if symbol macros together with a cljs? function would suffice for most cases?
14:31	lynaghk	but, uh, kind of taking a detour to learn logic programming so it might be a few weeks before I can get something working out the door.
14:31	lynaghk	gfredericks: that is Evan's approach right now. We talked about this problem at Clojure/West a fair bit, and we're going to just try both and see what feels better.
14:32	lynaghk	gfredericks: one of the reasons I want to use metadata over macros is so that I can use the JVM Clojure REPL as much as possible.
14:32	gfredericks	hmmm
14:33	gfredericks	what about metadata on arbitrary forms?
14:33	gfredericks	where the form itself gives the clojure version and in the metadata you give a cljs replacement
14:34	gfredericks	(defn sqrt [x] #^{:cljs (.sqrt js/Math x)} (Math/sqrt x))
14:34	lynaghk	gfredericks: that's an interesting idea. I feel like that would make my editor super angry.
14:34	gfredericks	haha why?
14:34	qbg	gfredericks: A compiler-cond macro?
14:35	gfredericks	qbg: eh? not sure what that means
14:35	lynaghk	gfredericks: dunno, just shoving a lot of forms around I guess. That might be a cool addition, but I definitely want to have the basics (like this clojure.lang.IFn -> IFn) work out of the box automatically.
14:35	qbg	cond, but evaluates at macroexpansion time
14:35	gfredericks	qbg: are you suggesting that's what I'm doing, or suggesting an alternative?
14:36	qbg	It would be a bit more general of an alternative\
14:36	mk	is there a categorized list of all of clojure core?
14:36	gfredericks	$google clojure cheatsheet
14:36	lazybot	[Clojure - cheatsheet] http://clojure.org/cheatsheet
14:36	qbg	But it is basically a (poor) reimplementation of reader conditionals from CL
14:36	gfredericks	mk: ^ seen that?
14:37	lynaghk	gfredericks: I just added you to the collaborators list for this repo, if you want to watch how it develops. I'll writeup the README a bit more and open source it when it's barely usablable.
14:37	gfredericks	qbg: also there's always #=(if cljs? 'js/Math 'Math/sqrt)
14:37	mk	yep, it's open in a tab, but I think it's missing things, and was hoping for something a bit more parsable
14:38	qbg	Can we do better than #+ and #- from CL?
14:38	gfredericks	qbg: what do those do?
14:38	gfredericks	mk: there's also using the ns functions to get all the vars
14:38	gfredericks	that's not too categorized though
14:39	qbg	Depending on features, conditionally ignore the next form
14:39	mk	gfredericks: yeah, I actually just did (sort (keys (ns-publics (the-ns 'clojure.core)))) :)
14:40	qbg	http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw50/CLHS/Body/24_aba.htm
14:41	dnolen	hmm I thought I could just run 'lein install' from a project, did this chagne?
14:42	fprefect	,(class (char-array [\x \y \z]))
14:42	clojurebot	[C
14:44	dnolen	ooops, 'lein install' works just fine
14:48	gfredericks	lynaghk: how does cljx relate to cljsbuild?
14:49	lynaghk	gfredericks: it doesn't; assuming I can get it to something useful, it'd be a lein plugin that generates clj and cljs from "cljx" source files. You'd still use cljsbuild, but you wouldn't need to do anything with crossovers.
14:50	gfredericks	lynaghk: ah hah;
14:50	gfredericks	very nice
14:50	lynaghk	gfredericks: if by "very nice" you mean "terrible terrible hack" = )
14:51	mk	how can I use booleans?
14:51	gfredericks	mk: um
14:51	gfredericks	how do you want to use them?
14:51	mk	(booleans ???) -> something that isn't an error
14:52	gfredericks	,(type true)
14:52	clojurebot	java.lang.Boolean
14:52	gfredericks	,((juxt type identity) (boolean 15))
14:52	clojurebot	[java.lang.Boolean true]
14:52	mk	I want to use the booleans function in particular
14:52	gfredericks	oh wait there is a 'booleans function
14:52	gfredericks	I see
14:52	gfredericks	,(doc booleans)
14:52	clojurebot	"([xs]); Casts to boolean[]"
14:52	gfredericks	ah right; arrays; what fun
14:52	gfredericks	,(booleans [true false true])
14:53	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentVector cannot be cast to [Z>
14:53	gfredericks	&(-> [true false true] (make-array) (booleans))
14:53	lazybot	clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (1) passed to: core$make-array
14:53	mk	nice try! ;)
14:53	gfredericks	&(->> [true false true] (apply make-array) (booleans))
14:53	lazybot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Boolean cannot be cast to java.lang.Character
14:53	gfredericks	consarnit
14:53	gfredericks	&(doc make-array)
14:53	lazybot	⇒ "([type len] [type dim & more-dims]); Creates and returns an array of instances of the specified class of the specified dimension(s). Note that a class object is required. Class objects can be obtained by using their imported or fully-qualified name. Class objects f... https://refheap.com/paste/1362
14:53	gfredericks	&(doc to-array)
14:53	lazybot	⇒ "([coll]); Returns an array of Objects containing the contents of coll, which can be any Collection. Maps to java.util.Collection.toArray()."
14:54	gfredericks	(->> [true false true] to-array booleans)
14:54	gfredericks	&(->> [true false true] to-array booleans)
14:54	lazybot	java.lang.ClassCastException: [Ljava.lang.Object; cannot be cast to [Z
14:54	qbg	&(->> [true false true] (into-array Boolean/TYPE) (booleans))
14:54	lazybot	⇒ #<boolean[] [Z@d94042>
14:55	gfredericks	every time I need to work with arrays there's always five functions that do mostly the same thing and I always try the right one last
14:55	mk	,(into-array Boolean/TYPE [true false true]) ; I get the impression that the use of booleans was superfluous there, qbg...
14:55	clojurebot	#<boolean[] [Z@1ad13ee>
14:55	qbg	mk: It is
14:56	qbg	type hinting is the only reason to use booleans
14:56	qbg	(basically)
14:57	qbg	But Clojue's philosophy is to be close to the host...
14:58	gfredericks	yeah :)
14:58	gfredericks	I didn't mean that it'd be compatible with clojure's goals or anything
14:58	qbg	Ignoring the host isn't good enough?
14:58	mk	so... ok... core has some really silly-looking infrequently-used functions
14:59	dnolen	emezeske: hmm, how can I install lein-cljsbuild from the repo locally?
14:59	gfredericks	qbg: well an ideal dialect could be guaranteed to execute the same on all hosts
14:59	mk	qbg: thanks for solving the mystery of booleans
14:59	gfredericks	mk: yeah it does have a lot of those
14:59	qbg	booleans in the end is just return (boolean[])o;
14:59	mk	gfredericks: like the intersection of what you can expect all the hosts to implement
15:00	gfredericks	mk: and maybe some other non-performant modifications like always promoting to bigints (or rather semantically bigints everywhere -- not exposing a distinction)
15:00	qbg	mk: Examples that you think are silly?
15:02	gfredericks	qbg: could go even further and make it pure-functional, I think
15:02	mk	qbg: ffirst and its ilk, apparently most of these array casts... 1 2 should be in the repl, that sort of thing
15:03	devn	what am i doing wrong with seesaw here? It seems like my keystroke listener works in the nth instance (-> f show!), but then fails in new instances
15:03	qbg	mk: Wait until you see CL...
15:03	mk	qbg: CL?
15:04	devn	common lisp
15:04	gfredericks	common lisp
15:04	qbg	With the cadr functions
15:04	mk	right. Yeah, there might be quite a wait on that ;)
15:04	qbg	ed is my favorite
15:05	qbg	Basically not implemented in the impls I used
15:05	mk	ed?
15:05	clojurebot	ed is the standard editor!
15:05	Iceland_jack	ed.
15:06	qbg	http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/f_ed.htm
15:06	irc2samus	hi guys, in order to test if a given instance implements some interface is it rigth to use "instance?"?
15:07	gfredericks	,satisfies?
15:07	clojurebot	#<core$satisfies_QMARK_ clojure.core$satisfies_QMARK_@14dd46d>
15:07	mk	if that's the scheme editor, it's the reason I stopped messing about with learning scheme
15:07	gfredericks	irc2samus: I think that does it ^
15:07	qbg	irc2samus: Yes
15:07	gfredericks	oh wait
15:07	gfredericks	I read 'protocol' instead of 'interface'
15:08	irc2samus	oks thanks!
15:11	gfredericks	so do CL/scheme have a single stringy-thing while clojure has three?
15:11	qbg	stringy-thing?
15:11	gfredericks	string/symbol/keyword
15:12	qbg	CL has all of those
15:12	AimHere	Scheme has strings and symbols, at least
15:12	gfredericks	hell also char-seqs
15:12	qbg	CL strings are mutable
15:13	gfredericks	then there are also vectors of futures of atoms of length-1 strings
15:13	gfredericks	which are what I use most of the time
15:14	qbg	CL has zero dimensional arrays
15:14	qbg	And arrays which point to the contents of other arrays
15:14	gfredericks	it has more than one of them?
15:15	qbg	It has real multidimensional arrays
15:15	qbg	Not just arrays of arrays
15:15	qbg	A 1 dim array which shares the contents of a 2d array is fun
15:16	gfredericks	that's funny I have the opposite opinion
15:16	qbg	There was a C implementation for the lisp machines
15:17	qbg	That would really show how "portable" your C code is!
15:25	gfredericks	does erc have a built in thing for keeping track of mentions and such?
15:40	mk	what's the difference between = and ==?
15:41	muhoo	&(doc =)
15:41	lazybot	⇒ "([x] [x y] [x y & more]); Equality. Returns true if x equals y, false if not. Same as Java x.equals(y) except it also works for nil, and compares numbers and collections in a type-independent manner. Clojure's immutable data structures define equals() (and thus =) ... https://refheap.com/paste/1363
15:41	gfredericks	,(doc ==)
15:41	muhoo	&(doc ==)
15:41	lazybot	⇒ "([x] [x y] [x y & more]); Returns non-nil if nums all have the equivalent value (type-independent), otherwise false"
15:41	clojurebot	"([x] [x y] [x y & more]); Returns non-nil if nums all have the equivalent value (type-independent), otherwise false"
15:41	gfredericks	man I don't know what that means
15:41	muhoo	me neither shrugs
15:42	mk	,(== 1 1)
15:42	clojurebot	true
15:42	mk	"returns non-nil"
15:42	gfredericks	,(== 1 1.0)
15:42	clojurebot	true
15:42	muhoo	,(= 1 1.0)
15:42	gfredericks	,(= 1/3 0.3333333333333333)
15:42	clojurebot	false
15:42	clojurebot	false
15:42	muhoo	AHA!
15:42	gfredericks	oh wow
15:42	muhoo	== is type independent
15:42	gfredericks	didn't expect (not= 1 1.0)
15:42	muhoo	like it says
15:43	gfredericks	yet ##(= [3] '(3))
15:43	lazybot	⇒ true
15:43	gfredericks	&(= [3] '(3.0))
15:43	lazybot	⇒ false
15:43	muhoo	&(== [3] '(3.0))
15:43	lazybot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentVector cannot be cast to java.lang.Number
15:43	muhoo	realy?
15:44	gfredericks	&(== [3] [3.0])
15:44	lazybot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentVector cannot be cast to java.lang.Number
15:44	gfredericks	???
15:44	lazybot	gfredericks: How could that be wrong?
15:44	muhoo	" if nums"
15:44	muhoo	so == can only handle numbers
15:44	gfredericks	ooh
15:44	Bronsa	== is just for numeric comparison
15:44	gfredericks	you learn something new every minute
15:44	gfredericks	((juxt = ==) 0.75 3/4)
15:44	gfredericks	&((juxt = ==) 0.75 3/4)
15:44	lazybot	⇒ [false true]
15:45	muhoo	what i like about clj si that the new things i learn make me go "ooh" not "wtf".
15:46	gfredericks	muhoo: like ##(#'and true false true)?
15:46	lazybot	⇒ true
15:46	muhoo	&(and true false true)
15:46	lazybot	⇒ false
15:46	mk	this is new in 1.3 it seems, since 1.2 gives true on (= 3 3.0)
15:47	muhoo	what's the #' do?
15:47	Bronsa	you call and as a function, not as a macro
15:47	gfredericks	,(= #'and (var and))
15:47	clojurebot	true
15:48	muhoo	why would you do that?
15:48	gfredericks	you wouldn't so it's not a very good example :)
15:48	Iceland_jack	why indeed
15:48	Bronsa	when a macro is called &form and &env are implicitly passed
15:48	gfredericks	clj does indeed have less WAT than js
15:48	Iceland_jack	WATs per minute
15:48	Bronsa	if you call it as a function, you need to pass them manually
15:48	muhoo	spm
15:48	muhoo	wpm
15:49	Iceland_jack	also WTF's per minute, that's how I measure my software
15:49	Bronsa	so (#'and true false true) is really (and true)
15:49	muhoo	interesting
15:50	gfredericks	js is like a practical joke that got out of hand
15:50	muhoo	could be worse.
15:50	muhoo	you could be coding in php and java for a living
15:51	muhoo	which have more "oh christ i want to stab my eyeballs with a fucking pencil!" per minute, IME
15:51	gfredericks	OCIWTSMEWAFP
15:51	gfredericks	//m
15:52	gfredericks	hard to start a message with a slash
15:52	muhoo	/like this
15:52	gfredericks	yes like that
15:52	mk	,[(compare "a" "z") (compare 1 26)]
15:52	devn	weee, i now have a fancy capslock keyboard for overtone
15:52	clojurebot	[-25 -1]
15:53	gfredericks	&(doc compare)
15:53	lazybot	⇒ "([x y]); Comparator. Returns a negative number, zero, or a positive number when x is logically 'less than', 'equal to', or 'greater than' y. Same as Java x.compareTo(y) except it also works for nil, and compares numbers and collections in a type-independent manner. x must implement Comparable"
15:53	muhoo	hah, a comparator. what's next, an op-amp?
15:53	muhoo	maybe a schmitt trigger
15:54	mk	it's strange that it returns the alphabetic diff of the first char
15:54	gfredericks	&(compare "aa" "az")
15:54	lazybot	⇒ -25
15:54	gfredericks	&(compare "aa" "ba")
15:54	lazybot	⇒ -1
15:55	muhoo	i guess it's just supposed to be negative, zero, positive, and the actual value isn't meaningful?
15:55	mk	uhm.
15:55	gfredericks	yeah
15:55	mk	why?
15:55	clojurebot	Why is why
15:55	gfredericks	so it's quicker to return the diff than check it first
15:55	gtrak	how do I override + within a macro?
15:55	muhoo	,why
15:55	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: why in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
15:55	gfredericks	with-redefs?
15:55	muhoo	`why
15:55	gtrak	I get, 'can't let qualified name'
15:56	gfredericks	gtrak: oh you're trying to (let [+ foo] ...)?
15:56	gtrak	yea
15:57	gfredericks	okay use ~'+ then
15:57	gfredericks	+ will expand to clojure.core/+ otherwise
15:57	gtrak	ah, I see
15:57	muhoo	gtrak: ##(letfn [(+ [x y] (- x y))] (+ 3 4))
15:57	lazybot	⇒ -1
15:57	gtrak	makes sense :-)
15:57	gfredericks	muhoo: he's already inside a macro
15:58	gfredericks	or backquote rather
15:58	muhoo	oh
15:58	gfredericks	,`(let [+ -] (+ 3 4))
15:58	clojurebot	(clojure.core/let [clojure.core/+ clojure.core/-] (clojure.core/+ 3 4))
15:58	muhoo	cool
15:58	gtrak	just reinventing vector math :-)
15:59	beffbernard	if you have a java-source-path defined, can you reference your clojure code from java?
15:59	gtrak	there's no plusable unfortunately
15:59	beffbernard	in leiningen
16:01	yoklov	haha, persistent data structure heavy clojure code makes for very sloooow clojurescript code
16:02	devn	wee... time to figure out how to draw a keyboard with seesaw, heh
16:02	dnolen	yoklov: very :)
16:04	yoklov	yup, it does work though, which is a huge plus. shouldn't be too hard to make this quicker.
16:04	yoklov	are clojurescript lists copy-on-write too?
16:05	qbg	yoklov: I think everything in CLJS is copy on write
16:05	gfredericks	what do people mean by "clojure doesn't have a cons cell"? Is it just that Cons requires a seq for the second part?
16:05	gfredericks	qbg: lists are easy to do persistent though; I'd be surprised if they were copy on right
16:05	qbg	gfredricks: I believe so
16:05	yoklov	yeah, thats why i asked
16:06	gfredericks	it'd almost be harder to do COR for lists
16:06	qbg	Yeah, I think I'm thinking of vectors
16:06	yoklov	gfredericks, yeah the cons cell from most lisps is just two objects, and it's only a list if the second one is a list
16:07	dnolen	yoklov: lists don't need to be copy-on-write
16:07	yoklov	right, but if they were i wouldn't want to use them
16:07	AimHere	yoklov > Don't you mean if the second one is a cons cell?
16:07	yoklov	no
16:08	yoklov	(1 . (2 . (3 . 4))) is not a list
16:08	gfredericks	yoklov: so you meant it recursively
16:08	yoklov	yeah
16:08	gfredericks	a list is a cons cell whose second element is nil or a list
16:08	yoklov	(1 . (2 . (3 . (4 . ())))) is a list
16:08	yoklov	right.
16:09	yoklov	since nil is the empty list, it counts as a list
16:09	yoklov	in those lisps
16:09	Iceland_jack	yoklov: (1 . (2 . (3 . 4))) is an improper list
16:09	yoklov	e.g. scheme is the one i can actually talk about because i haven't really ever written anything non-trivial in common lisp
16:10	yoklov	Iceland_jack, i guess it depends on if you consider an improper list to be a type of list
16:10	gfredericks	I believe erlang also has cons cells in the same sense
16:10	Iceland_jack	Well in Common Lisp (1 2 3) and (1 2 . 3) are both considered lists; proper and improper lists respectively
16:10	Iceland_jack	Languages like Clojure/Haskel/ML et al don't allow improper lists
16:12	yoklov	yup, which is sorta nice. clojure has better data structures to fill that void
16:13	qbg	What is read-string in CLJS?
16:13	gfredericks	I'd expect the same as in clj
16:13	gfredericks	oh unless it doesn't exist
16:13	gfredericks	I'm always misinterpreting questions
16:16	ihodes	hmmm so there's got to be a better way of doing this... i've got a cond tree, and one of the test statements is something kinda complicated, and what returns (if it's logically true) is what i want cond to return... but i need to use cond. any ideas of what to do?
16:16	gfredericks	ihodes: that's only the case for one of your clauses?
16:16	ihodes	currently i'm just computing it twice; once to evaluate to true, and then once for the return value: e.g. (cond (something complicated returning true maybe) (same thing))
16:16	ihodes	gfredericks: for a few of the clauses, but not all of them
16:17	gfredericks	ihodes: first thought is to set each of those up in a let wrapped around the cond, but with a delay
16:17	gfredericks	(let [x (delay ...), y (delay ...), z (delay ...)] (cond @x @x (foo) bar @y @y @z @z))
16:17	ihodes	yeah, i wanted to avoid that for aesthetic purposes, but maybe so
16:18	gfredericks	maybe the only way to clean it up is to write a macro
16:18	qbg	Use (some identity <lazy-seq>)?
16:18	ihodes	qbg: that's what i'm actually doing, but it's ugly
16:19	ihodes	gfredericks: grrrr. it seems common enough that there'd be a way of handling it. but i guess i don't actually run into it that often
16:19	gfredericks	yeah I don't think I ever have
16:19	ihodes	haha something like (cond (my expression) :ibid)
16:20	qbg	Could use the ternary form of condp
16:20	qbg	But that would be a ugly
16:20	gfredericks	then there's an (or) with your other cases wrapped in ifs
16:21	qbg	Yeah, you could use or
16:21	Frozenlo`	Is there a function to make a key from a name? (the inverse of `name')
16:21	qbg	&(keyword "foobar")
16:21	lazybot	⇒ :foobar
16:21	Frozenlo`	Thanks!
16:21	qbg	gfredericks: Probably no need for if
16:22	gfredericks	qbg: when he wants separate parts there would be...
16:22	qbg	or is short circuiting
16:22	gfredericks	(cond (x) (x) y z (w) (w)) becomes (or (x) (if y z) (w))
16:22	ihodes	exactly
16:23	ihodes	hmmmmmmm
16:23	gfredericks	qbg: his main problem is he's mixing two kinds of clauses
16:23	gfredericks	unless he's a woman and then it's her main problem
16:24	ihodes	i'm a him. freenode should allow you to enter preferred pronoun. would solve all sorts of problems.
16:24	qbg	If (some identity ...) currently works, then or should work also
16:25	gfredericks	ihodes: man that'd make things even easier than face-to-face
16:25	ihodes	i could just use (or (x) (if y z) (w)). that might be the best way to do it without writing a macro.
16:26	gfredericks	with each clause on its own line it should be pretty readable
16:27	ihodes	i just hate having about 14 (if x y)s in there. so much repetition.
16:28	qbg	Maybe you can refactor that?
16:28	ihodes	meh i guess i can use a cond for all the ifs, within the or
16:28	gfredericks	yeah it totally depends on how mixed the types of clauses are
16:29	ihodes	yeah. at this point, i'm just trying to make it look nice. i think (or (x) (y) (z) (cond a b, c d, e f)) is the best way of handling it
16:31	ihodes	thanks for the brainstorming gfredericks & qdb
16:34	muhoo	one of the nice things about reading the source of the cljwest slides is that i discoverd there's a slideshow mode for emacs
16:35	muhoo	didn't know org-mode could do slides.
16:35	devn	org-mode can do...everything
16:36	mk	how can I check if something is a boolean, and also, do exception-throwing boolean casting?
16:36	gfredericks	mk: ##(assert (boolean? :foo))
16:36	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: boolean? in this context
16:36	gfredericks	wtf
16:37	qbg	mk: booleaning casting how?
16:37	mk	,(int "a")
16:37	gfredericks	&(assert (instance? Boolean :foo))
16:37	lazybot	java.lang.AssertionError: Assert failed: (instance? Boolean :foo)
16:37	clojurebot	Execution Timed Out
16:38	gfredericks	&(assert :foo)
16:38	lazybot	⇒ nil
16:38	devn	&(let [x false] (or (true? x) (false? x)))
16:38	lazybot	⇒ true
16:38	mk	&(int "a")
16:38	lazybot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to java.lang.Character
16:38	devn	gfredericks' is way better
16:38	mk	why did clojurebot time out?
16:38	devn	&(map char "a")
16:38	lazybot	⇒ (\a)
16:39	devn	&(map (comp int char) "a")
16:39	lazybot	⇒ (97)
16:39	mk	how do I pretty-print a 2d list as a table?
16:40	devn	cl-format
16:40	gfredericks	will pprint/print-table take integer keys?
16:41	devn	&(use 'clojure.pprint)
16:41	lazybot	⇒ nil
16:42	gfredericks	how often does lazybot reset those ns ops?
16:42	devn	&(pp/print-table [:a :b] {:a [1 2 3], :b [4]})
16:42	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: No such namespace: pp
16:42	devn	&(print-table [:a :b] {:a [1 2 3], :b [4]})
16:42	lazybot	⇒ ======= :a \| :b ======= \| \| ======= nil
16:43	devn	err
16:43	mk	,`print-table
16:43	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: Could not initialize class clojure.lang.RT>
16:43	devn	&(print-table [:a :b] {:a 1, :a 2, :a 3, :b 4})
16:43	lazybot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Duplicate key: :a
16:43	mk	&`print-table
16:43	lazybot	⇒ clojure.core/print-table
16:43	devn	&(print-table [:a :b] [:a 1, :a 2, :a 3, :b 4])
16:43	lazybot	⇒ ======= :a \| :b ======= \| \| \| \| \| \| \| \| ======= nil
16:43	gfredericks	&(print-table [2 1] [101 102 103] [[201 202 203] [301 302 303]])
16:43	lazybot	clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (3) passed to: pprint$print-table
16:43	gfredericks	&(print-table [2 1] [[101 102 103] [201 202 203] [301 302 303]])
16:43	lazybot	⇒ ========= 2 \| 1 ========= 103 \| 102 203 \| 202 303 \| 302 ========= nil
16:43	mephist0	an easy way to convert this [a b] [1 2] into this {a 1 b 2} please
16:44	gfredericks	mephist0: (into {} ...)
16:44	gfredericks	no
16:44	devn	mephist0: zipmap
16:44	gfredericks	mephist0: zipmap
16:44	devn	&(zipmap [:a :b] [1 2])
16:44	lazybot	⇒ {:b 2, :a 1}
16:44	mk	so how do I do the table thing, then?
16:44	dnolen	hmm is there any way to specify multiple source paths to leiningen?
16:45	gfredericks	mk: make sure you have vectors as the inner lists
16:45	mephist0	very good. Thank you devn gfredericks
16:45	mk	I can't resolve symbol print-table
16:45	devn	mk: you need to use or require clojure.pprint
16:45	gfredericks	and then (print-table (range (count (first vectors))) vectors)
16:45	muhoo	i kind of like incanter's way of printing tables
16:46	devn	i kind of dislike the print-table fn. i got a mild headache molding all of my data into what it expected
16:46	gfredericks	(-> seqs first count range (print-table (map vec seqs)))
16:46	mk	this is in clojure 1.3?
16:46	muhoo	if you tell it (view (to-datasource some-data-structure)) it does a pretty good job
16:46	gfredericks	mk: yeah
16:46	devn	mk: nod
16:46	devn	mk: it would be helpful to show us the data you have as input
16:47	devn	a sample of it, anyway
16:47	muhoo	sorry to-dataset
16:47	gfredericks	devn: how would you have done print-table?
16:48	mk	devn: [[12][213123 23][213123 234][9 9 9 9 9 9 9]]
16:48	mk	(or some random similar arrangement)
16:49	devn	gfredericks: im not sure, it just seems like there should maybe be some general fns to make your data fit what print-table expects
16:49	devn	gfredericks: for instance, if i want to just print-table of {:a 1, :b 2}, it seems like i should able to just do that
16:49	qbg	&(cl-format true "~{~s~%~}" [[1 2 3] [4 5 6] [7 8 9]])
16:49	lazybot	⇒ [1 2 3] [4 5 6] [7 8 9] nil
16:50	gfredericks	qbg: what is this witchcraft?
16:50	devn	gfredericks: or if i have [:a [1 2 3], :b [4 5 6]], it feels like it should just "get it"
16:50	devn	gfredericks: you havent joined the cult of the cl formatter?
16:50	devn	&(cl-format nil "~R" 111)
16:50	lazybot	⇒ "one hundred eleven"
16:50	devn	&(cl-format nil "~r" 111)
16:50	lazybot	⇒ "one hundred eleven"
16:50	devn	&(cl-format nil "~@R" 111)
16:50	muhoo	that's pretty bad ass
16:50	lazybot	⇒ "CXI"
16:51	devn	it's like learning a new mini language, though
16:51	qbg	&(cl-format nil "~:@R" 4)
16:51	lazybot	⇒ "IIII"
16:51	simard	I call a static clojure function from java code. On my PC (Linux), it works fine, on another (Windows7), I get this error https://gist.github.com/2199626
16:51	devn	qbg: :)
16:51	muhoo	&(cl-format nil "~R" 1976)
16:51	lazybot	⇒ "one thousand, nine hundred seventy-six"
16:52	devn	&(cl-format nil "~@R" 1976)
16:52	lazybot	⇒ "MCMLXXVI"
16:52	qbg	&(cl-format nil ~:R" 1976)
16:52	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading string
16:52	qbg	&(cl-format nil "~:R" 1976)
16:52	lazybot	⇒ "one thousand, nine hundred seventy-sixth"
16:52	gfredericks	omg
16:52	simard	I tried to add some (println ..) from the top level of the clojure file and it's not working either, which lets me think an error happens at load time, not call time
16:52	qbg	Never NEVER use format to produce format control strings
16:52	gfredericks	that is obscene
16:52	qbg	You head will just die
16:52	devn	yeah. it might make people /angry/ at you
16:53	gfredericks	I wrote a whole library to convert numbers to words
16:53	devn	but if you're ever asked to do the roman numeral kata
16:53	devn	just use cl-format ;)
16:53	gfredericks	how high does it go though?
16:53	devn	i think roman numerals kick out around 2500
16:53	devn	&(cl-format nil "~@R" 2500)
16:53	lazybot	⇒ "MMD"
16:53	muhoo	if someone asks you do do roman numerals,
16:53	gfredericks	no for the words one
16:53	devn	&(cl-format nil "~@R" 900)
16:53	lazybot	⇒ "CM"
16:53	qbg	http://www.foldr.org/~michaelw/log/static/programming/lisp/format-automotivator.jpg
16:53	devn	&(cl-format nil "~@R" 9000)
16:53	lazybot	⇒ "9,000"
16:53	muhoo	just tell them to quit screwing around and just give you the damn job
16:54	devn	&(cl-format nil "~@R" 3400)
16:54	lazybot	⇒ "MMMCD"
16:54	devn	&(cl-format nil "~@R" 6500)
16:54	lazybot	⇒ "6,500"
16:54	devn	binary search continues as an exercise for the reader
16:54	mk	...I still have no idea how to make it draw a table from an arbitrary 2d seq
16:54	gfredericks	(cl-format nil "~:R" 100000000000000000000000000N)
16:54	gfredericks	,(cl-format nil "~:R" 100000000000000000000000000N)
16:54	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: cl-format in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
16:54	gfredericks	&(cl-format nil "~:R" 100000000000000000000000000N)
16:54	lazybot	⇒ "one hundred septillionth"
16:54	devn	,(use 'clojure.pprint)
16:54	clojurebot	nil
16:54	qbg	mk: try (cl-format true "~{~s~%~}" [[1 2 3] [4 5 6] [7 8 9]]) at the repl
16:54	muhoo	&(class cl-format)
16:54	lazybot	⇒ clojure.pprint$cl_format
16:54	qbg	Good enough?
16:55	gfredericks	&(cl-format nil "~:R" (apply * (repeat 100 10N)))
16:55	lazybot	⇒ "10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000th"
16:55	muhoo	oh, it's in pprint
16:55	gfredericks	ah ha
16:55	gfredericks	&(cl-format nil "~:R" (apply * (repeat 50 10N)))
16:55	lazybot	⇒ "one hundred quindecillionth"
16:56	mk	qbg: the rows aren't aligned
16:56	gfredericks	goes up to but not including 10^66
16:56	devn	&(print-table [:a :b :c] [{:a 1} {:b 2} {:c 3}])
16:56	lazybot	⇒ ============ :a \| :b \| :c ============ 1 \| \| \| 2 \| \| \| 3 ============ nil
16:56	devn	mk: try that at the repl. is that better?
16:57	devn	you may need to turn your data structure into something that print-table wants
16:57	muhoo	&(cl-format nil "~@R" 420)
16:57	lazybot	⇒ "CDXX"
16:57	tomoj	&(cl-format nil "~:R" (apply * (repeat 70 10N)))
16:57	lazybot	⇒ "10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000th"
16:58	gfredericks	tomoj: goes up to 65
16:58	tomoj	is the rest, uh.. nameless?
16:58	qbg	(cl-format true "~{~{~0,5t~s~}~%~}" [[1 2 3] [4 5 6] [7 8 9]])
16:58	tomoj	or is the implementation just incomplete?
16:58	qbg	How does that look?
16:58	muhoo	the yak, it is shaved.
16:58	qbg	(you'll probably need to modify the 5 to make sense for you
16:58	gfredericks	tomoj: I think that's as much as most dictionaries traditionally cover exhaustively
16:58	Frozenlo`	Another newbie question... The result of using `map' is of the form (item1 item2...). Is there a way to make it a map instead?
16:59	gfredericks	I think up to 10^303 is derivable? sorta...
16:59	devn	tomoj: how many numbers in your dataset are above 65 places?
16:59	devn	(that you need to print readably)
16:59	qbg	A bit better: (cl-format true "~{~{~s~0,5t~}~%~}" [[1 2 3] [4 5 6] [7 8 19]])
16:59	mk	I just want the numbers. Without weird headers, and I don't actually know how many will be in there
16:59	gfredericks	Frozenlo`: it's not clear what that map would be of -- i.e. what are the keys and the values?
17:00	Frozenlo`	gfredericks: both are other maps :)
17:00	gfredericks	devn: he's just trying to make sure his code is scalable
17:00	gfredericks	Frozenlo`: maybe zipmap will do what you want? it's still not clear
17:00	gfredericks	e.g., if you're doing ##(map inc [3 5 183])
17:00	lazybot	⇒ (4 6 184)
17:01	gfredericks	how would we make a map out of that?
17:01	mk	I suppose I need something to display matricies, rather than tabular data
17:01	tmciver	I just noticed this cl-format. What ns? I don't have it on my repl.
17:01	devn	&(partition 2 '(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8))
17:01	lazybot	⇒ ((1 2) (3 4) (5 6) (7 8))
17:01	devn	&(map zipmap (partition 2 '(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8)))
17:01	lazybot	clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (1) passed to: core$zipmap
17:01	qbg	Documentation: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/22_c.htm
17:01	qbg	tmciver: clojure.pprint
17:01	raek	Frozenlo`: if you have a sequence of map entries, use (into {} ...), if you have a seq of keys and a seq of values, use (zipmap ...), if you have a seq of alternating keys and vals, use (apply hash-map ...)
17:01	tmciver	qbg: thanks.
17:02	Frozenlo`	raek: thanks, trying now.
17:02	raek	...and a map entry is a vector of two elements
17:03	devn	&(let [sequence '((1 2) (3 4) (5 6) (7 8)), keys (map first sequence), vals (map second sequence)] (zipmap keys vals))
17:03	lazybot	⇒ {7 8, 5 6, 3 4, 1 2}
17:03	tomoj	devn: I don't need cl-format at all, just curious about the names
17:04	devn	tomoj: yeah, if you check out the source it goes to....
17:04	devn	vigintillion
17:04	devn	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_large_numbers
17:04	devn	10^63
17:05	tomoj	lol @ centillion
17:05	gfredericks	there's an interesting one mentioned in that article that grows double exponentially I think
17:05	gfredericks	i.e., gets qualitatively higher on fewer names
17:05	devn	"some scientists say there may even be larger numbers!"
17:05	devn	10^303 + 1 ?
17:06	gfredericks	lol
17:06	gfredericks	$google 24 is the highest number
17:06	lazybot	[Mr. Show - 24 is the Highest Number - YouTube] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkP_OGDCLY0
17:07	qbg	mk: Try something like (cl-format true "~{~{~8@A~}~%~}" [[1 3424 2] [4 5 6] [7 8 19]])
17:08	mk	qbg: spaces between small numbers are too huge. I'm working on taking the max string length of each column and using that...
17:09	qbg	mk: Have you thought about using ClojureScript and generating a table element? :p
17:10	mk	qbg: yeah that'll look great in the repl ;)
17:10	qbg	Visual repl is the future!
17:10	mk	qbg: I agree! I hope you're thinking of writing one
17:10	devn	as long as we're talking about cl-format, i remember thinking this was interesting when i first picked up clojure
17:10	devn	&(+ ()() ()() ()() ()() ()() ()() ()() ()() ()() ()() ()() ()() ()() ()() ()() ()() ()() ()() ()() ()() ()())
17:10	lazybot	⇒ 42
17:10	qbg	Visual repl is the past! See CLIM
17:11	gfredericks	devn: boobs?
17:11	devn	im ashamed of you, gfredericks
17:11	mk	how do I do a double-map? I have a [] of functions
17:11	gfredericks	well otherwise you could've done that more compactly
17:12	simard	refresh: https://gist.github.com/2199626
17:12	devn	,(+()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()())
17:12	clojurebot	42
17:12	qbg	&(reduce #(map %2 %1) [1 2 3] [inc #(* 2 %) dec])
17:12	lazybot	⇒ (3 5 7)
17:13	gfredericks	devn: I mean mixing (*) and (+)
17:13	emezeske	dnolen: There's no easy way to use a custom clojurescript compiler with cljsbuild. Someone else was asking about that, I think, but I haven't come up with a decent solution yet.
17:13	qbg	mk: Something like that?
17:13	devn	gfredericks: sure
17:13	gfredericks	somewhere I wrote some code that would take a number and output that sort of expression
17:13	emezeske	dnolen: As far as installing cljsbuild locally, you just need to "lein install" from support/ and then plugin/
17:14	devn	gfredericks: ha, i was going to write that this morning, but then thought better of it
17:15	devn	&((+()()()()()())(+()()()()()()()))
17:15	lazybot	⇒ 42
17:15	mk	qbg: (dec identity inc) (3 4) -> ((2 3)(3 4)(4 5))
17:15	gfredericks	devn: my judgment is worse than yours
17:15	gfredericks	now I have to try to find it...I hope it wasn't in ruby
17:15	devn	back in a bit
17:16	qbg	&((fn [fns coll] (map #(map % cols) fns)) [dec identity inc] [3 4])
17:16	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: cols in this context
17:16	qbg	&((fn [fns coll] (map #(map % coll) fns)) [dec identity inc] [3 4])
17:16	lazybot	⇒ ((2 3) (3 4) (4 5))
17:16	gfredericks	qbg: maybe (map (apply juxt fns) colls)?
17:18	qbg	gfredericks: I think you'd need to transpose the result
17:19	gfredericks	hmm
17:19	gfredericks	cannot find my silly +/* expression code
17:19	gfredericks	probably the world is better off for it
17:20	qbg	gfredericks, devn: Sounds like a job for core.logic :)
17:20	qbg	Maybe
17:20	mk	qbg: thanks, that seems to work
17:21	gfredericks	qbg: oh crap that's a great idea
17:21	qbg	Probably will need cKanren extensions
17:21	qbg	For complicated stuff
17:21	gfredericks	though there was some number theory involved with trying to keep it small
17:22	dnolen	emezeske: thanks, actually got it sorted out.
17:25	ibdknox	dnolen: nice work on the cljs core.logic stuff! :)
17:30	dnolen	ibdknox: thx! just in time for NYC.js and JSConf :)
17:33	emezeske	dnolen: Oh, wasn't there some bug or something in cljsbuild that you were worried about fixing before JSConf?
17:34	emezeske	dnolen: I remember that coming up, but forgot what it was
17:35	dnolen	emezeske: nope, I think you're thinking of the :source-path issue :)
17:37	emezeske	dnolen: You were asking about lein2 support, under which the REPLs are broken
17:39	emezeske	dnolen: Are you just going with lein1 for now?
17:41	dnolen	emezeske: oh yeah, lein2 repl would cool, but it's not critical for me now.
17:46	emezeske	dnolen: Okay, good deal
17:56	mk	how can I get the name of a function?
17:56	qbg	&map
17:56	lazybot	⇒ #<core$map clojure.core$map@151f412>
17:57	mk	can I get just map?
17:57	qbg	&(.getSimpleName (class map))
17:57	lazybot	⇒ "core$map"
17:58	qbg	Would have to do regex from there
17:58	yoklov	wow, surprisingly drawing this to the canvas is slower than actually running the game
17:58	yoklov	but both are absurdly slow.
17:59	mk	qbg: thanks
17:59	ibdknox	yoklov: drawing on the canvas should be pretty quick, depending on what you're drawing
18:00	yoklov	text
18:00	yoklov	mostly
18:00	qbg	mk: That is only going to make sense for named functions
18:00	ibdknox	using cljs?
18:00	yoklov	yup
18:01	ibdknox	are you doing a loop with doseq or some other such seq mechanism?
18:01	yoklov	porting code from clojure to cljs. there are performance issues everywhere as it uses lots of persistant datatypes
18:01	yoklov	yeah
18:01	yoklov	doseq
18:01	yoklov	should i be doing a loop/recur?
18:01	ibdknox	doseq is way too slow
18:01	ibdknox	you can't use seq
18:01	ibdknox	s
18:01	ibdknox	that's why money does weird things with arrays :(
18:01	ibdknox	monet*
18:02	qbg	mk: If you have a var, you could get the symbol from that
18:02	yoklov	right okay, hm, so what's the canonical way to loop over some range of numbers without using doseq?
18:02	yoklov	loop/recur?
18:02	mk	qbg: gotcha
18:02	ibdknox	yeah
18:02	qbg	,(.sym #'map)
18:03	clojurebot	map
18:03	qbg	^ Hack though
18:03	ibdknox	,(-> #'map meta :name)
18:03	clojurebot	map
18:03	ibdknox	qbg: ^
18:04	qbg	It would be nice if vars were named
18:10	yoklov	hrm. still pretty slow
18:10	clojurebot	excusez-moi
18:10	yoklov	20 seconds to draw 100 frames
18:10	yoklov	from 22
18:11	ibdknox	yoklov: gist?
18:11	yoklov	https://gist.github.com/2200308
18:12	qbg	Isn't dotimes available?
18:12	yoklov	tried reversing the iteration in the foolish hope that it would speed it up
18:13	yoklov	hm. maybe the (set (map :pos monsters)) is slowing it down...
18:13	yoklov	eh there are only ever 6 or so
18:14	ibdknox	can you add the generated js for that function too?
18:14	yoklov	absolutely
18:14	ibdknox	nothing obvious is jumping out
18:15	ibdknox	also, how are you calling draw?
18:16	dnolen	yoklov: did you try running the JS profiler (say in Chrome) to see where the time is spent?
18:16	yoklov	when i'm testing the speed it's in a reduce loop, however its still noticably slow when i call it at the end of an event
18:16	yoklov	yeah
18:16	yoklov	its in draw
18:16	yoklov	:/
18:17	qbg	You looping through each pixel to see if something is there?
18:17	dnolen	yoklov: but it's not clear which thing in draw in slowing you down?
18:17	qbg	each block that is I guess
18:18	yoklov	https://gist.github.com/2200308 has the generated js
18:18	yoklov	and as far as the slowness in draw its a lot of anonymous functions
18:19	yoklov	eventually leading to cljs.core.hashmap, actually
18:19	yoklov	*contains_key. hm.
18:19	ibdknox	all the gets
18:20	dnolen	yoklov: gets are punishingly slow at the moment
18:20	yoklov	that would explain it
18:21	yoklov	and a lot.
18:21	dnolen	yoklov: you using regular maps right?
18:21	ibdknox	yeah he is
18:21	dnolen	yoklov: way to get massive speedup is to replace the map with you own record with those keys
18:22	dnolen	yoklov: then you avoid all the avoid of hashing, array copying etc.
18:22	yoklov	err, so inline the lookup?
18:22	yoklov	or… what?
18:23	yoklov	oh like a record type?
18:23	ibdknox	yeah, an actual record
18:24	dnolen	yoklov: yes then you don't need to change the fns.
18:25	yoklov	well, that is certainly a hack in this case but i can deal if it offers massive speedup
18:25	dnolen	yoklov: even in Java you sometimes want to replace map use with defrecord if perf becomes an issue.
18:27	yoklov	hm. never really had performance issues in java, probably just because i don't do anything that intense
18:31	emezeske	Has anyone happened to make Google Closure externs file for RaphaelJS?
18:32	emezeske	Or can anyone point me toward documentation on how to make an externs file?
18:36	gfredericks	emezeske: is there more to extern besides `Raphael`?
18:38	emezeske	gfredericks: I thought all the member functions, etc, had to be externed. I would love to be wrong...?
18:39	gfredericks	not knowing about any of these things too intimately, that would surprise me.
18:41	emezeske	Wouldn't references in my code to the public methods of the Raphael object be munged?
18:42	gfredericks	as in Raphael.foo(bar)?
18:42	irc2samus	guys how do you get an integer from a numeric string?
18:42	gfredericks	&(Integer/parseInteger "48929854")
18:42	lazybot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching method: parseInteger
18:42	gfredericks	hmm
18:42	gfredericks	well there's something there
18:42	yoklov	&(Integer/parseInt "48929854")
18:42	lazybot	⇒ 48929854
18:42	emezeske	gfredericks: Yeah
18:42	yoklov	:p
18:42	gfredericks	I was going to type that first but decided it looked too javascripty
18:43	gfredericks	emezeske: is that (Raphael/foo bar)?
18:43	yoklov	haha, i only know because i'm in college so most of the code i have to write is in java
18:43	gfredericks	oh I guess it's JS before it gets munged
18:43	gfredericks	so Raphael.foo(bar) then
18:43	emezeske	gfredericks: No, it would be like (.foo (js/Raphael ...) bar)
18:43	gfredericks	I would think if Raphael is externed then the compiler would pass over an expression with 'Raphael' at the front of it...
18:44	irc2samus	great! is it weird that it doesn't appear on clojuredocs?
18:44	gfredericks	but like I said I don't know much about these matters
18:44	gfredericks	irc2samus: it's pure java, so...not really
18:44	gfredericks	maybe unideally
18:44	emezeske	gfredericks: Well, Raphael/foo would be like a static member access
18:44	emezeske	gfredericks: Mostly you just create a Raphael object, and then call members
18:45	emezeske	gfredericks: Which are just object.whatever()
18:45	gfredericks	oh you mean on the instance
18:45	emezeske	gfredericks: Yeah
18:45	gfredericks	so (.foo my-raphale bar)?
18:45	emezeske	gfredericks: Exaclty
18:45	irc2samus	ohh I see, thanks
18:47	gfredericks	hmmm; okay, so I guess it'd be hard (impossible) for the compiler to know if my-raphael is a raphael object, so the way that works is e.g. if you extern 'draw' then calling (.draw my-raphael) will not be munged and neither will calling draw on anything else but you don't lose much that way...
18:47	gfredericks	emezeske: yeah okay you've convinced me
18:48	gfredericks	devn: at compiletime or runtime?
18:48	emezeske	gfredericks: I just got things to compile with using raphael.js as the externs file, but the compiler produces warnings for like 5 minutes before it's done
18:48	devn	gfredericks: runtime
18:48	emezeske	gfredericks: I guess I just need to strip it down myself :(
18:48	gfredericks	emezeske: probably a regex could find all the functions declared eh?
18:49	emezeske	gfredericks: Maybe...
18:49	gfredericks	devn: that sounds complicated
18:49	gfredericks	emezeske: you have a problem, you think "I know, I'll use a regex", and then you use the regex to solve the problem
18:49	devn	now you have two problems
18:51	gfredericks	devn: that's an old wives' tail
18:52	irc2samus	ok, apologies for the basic question but why do I have to wrap Integer/parseInt on a fn in order to use it with map?
18:52	devn	gfredericks: i just recently re-read joy of clojure (wow, i missed a lot in my haste the first time around, what an incredible book)
18:52	gfredericks	hm
18:52	gfredericks	devn: does it condemn regexes?
18:52	gfredericks	,Integer/parseInt
18:52	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to find static field: parseInt in class java.lang.Integer, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
18:53	irc2samus	got that same error
18:53	gfredericks	irc2samus: I guess otherwise the syntax would be ambigious between static fields and static methods?
18:53	devn	"Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use regular expressions." Now they have two problems --Jamie Zawinski (aka jwz)
18:53	gfredericks	devn: that's what I was playing off of
18:54	devn	gfredericks: they just remark that they're sympathetic to the statement, but that regular expressions can be useful
18:54	devn	i know people who have built really fragile code out of ornate regexen
18:54	devn	then again, i use them quite often
18:54	gfredericks	irc2samus: I can't think of any particular reason, it's probably mixed up in compilers and reflection and performance and all that. But the Foo/bar syntax can only be used in the front of a list, it can't be evaluated by itself and passed around
18:55	irc2samus	ok, good to know thank you
18:55	gfredericks	devn: "Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use an ornate regex to build fragile code." Now they have two problems."
18:56	devn	:) I was just about to say "I just said that."
18:56	devn	until I noticed
18:56	gfredericks	irc2samus: I think there might be a macro to do what you're doing a little easier though
18:56	amalloy	the particular reason is that Integer/parseInt isn't a function
18:56	gfredericks	amalloy: well it could be compiled into one
18:56	amalloy	it's a method, which is not a first-class value in java
18:58	AimHere	As far as Integer/parseInt is concerned, 'read-string' does turn strings into numbers for you in a more first-class stylee, though it'll turn non-Integer strings into not-integers as well
19:20	yoklov	so, if I want to get some performance improvements by turning my maps into records, how should i be accessing the fields of those records? (:field a-record) still seems to be very slow
19:21	gfredericks	yoklov: I think (.field a-record) is the way to do it?
19:21	yoklov	hrm.
19:23	ibdknox	(.-field a-record)
19:23	yoklov	that's tough. short of (case :field (.field a-record), :otherfield (.otherfield a-record)), i dunno if that's gonna be possible, because just the symbol `namespace/field` will give an error as it doesnt exist… i think
19:25	ibdknox	yoklov: huh?
19:25	ibdknox	I didn't understand that
19:25	ibdknox	as long as a-record is non-nil, everything will be fine
19:25	yoklov	err, sorry. i have the keyword :field stored somewhere
19:25	yoklov	i could change that to a symbol and do (. a-record variable-resolving-to-field)
19:25	ibdknox	(aget a-record wooohoo)
19:25	yoklov	or… somethign weird? no that makes no sense.
19:26	yoklov	oh
19:30	Lee__	New to this irc gizmo... Anyone here who can help with a classpath problem after upgrade to Clojure 1.3?
19:31	gfredericks	~anyone
19:31	clojurebot	Just a heads up, you're more likely to get some help if you ask the question you really want the answer to, instead of "does anyone ..."
19:32	Lee__	Thx clojurebot.
19:32	yoklov	blergh. i guess i can't have destructuring if i want that speedup?
19:34	amalloy	yoklov: you get a noticeable speedup for free just by using records, i think. you get maybe another factor of four for using hinted .foo lookups instead of :foo, but it's highly unlikely that that's your bottleneck anyway
19:34	Lee__	With clojure 1.2 I was able to launch runs on linux with "java -cp ./*:./src/ clojure.main -i myfile.clj" and it would find required files in the same directory, but this isn't working with clojure 1.3... Anyone know why and/or a fix?
19:34	yoklov	amalloy: this is in clojurescript, actually
19:36	yoklov	and i'm pretty sure it's my bottleneck because chrome's profiler says that it's in hash_key_exists_QMARK_ or something like that
19:36	gfredericks	Lee__: any particular reason you're not using leiningen?
19:36	ibdknox	yoklov: correct
19:37	ibdknox	amalloy: in CLJS that could easily be the bottleneck :(
19:37	gfredericks	ibdknox: because keywords are strings?
19:38	ibdknox	arguments is orders of magnitude slower :(
19:38	gfredericks	oh
19:38	yoklov	so hm
19:38	Lee__	gfredricks: I do use leiningen in other contexts, but for doing remote runs on a cluster I've just been using that java call... I guess one reason is that I actually throw more java options in the call, e.g. for parallel garbage collection on a 48 core node... Maybe I can do that with lein calls too? I just didn't ever bother to figure that out because this worked (before).
19:39	yoklov	i guess my best bet is to start rewriting this to pass more args separately and use more js arrays?
19:39	gfredericks	Lee__: okay that question is beyond me I think; hopefully someone else knows
20:00	Lee__	More generally: what changed between 1.2 and 1.3 re: how the classpath is searched? I've been unable to find any docs on this. With 1.2 I can launch java with "-cp ./*:" and it finds any required files in the launching directory, but not so with 1.3...
20:05	mk	Lee__: many people use lein, and things tend to just work
20:05	mk	...but I see that this was already suggested above
21:08	dnolen	yoklov: I feel your pain.
21:09	yoklov	haha
21:09	dnolen	yoklov: in core.logic I was well aware of the problems and avoided using anything map or record related.
21:09	yoklov	i actually just sped it up a bunch by calling name on a bunch of keywords and then using them in agets for the record types
21:10	yoklov	what did you use instead?
21:10	dnolen	yoklov: in Clojure I used a map - it's ridiculously fast, but for core.logic in CLJS I switched back to lists which is what the original Scheme used.
21:11	yoklov	oh right
21:12	yoklov	really my only really huge slowdowns are in the set-heavy areas of my code and in "draw", which accesses tons and tons of maps
21:12	yoklov	or keys in maps, rather
21:13	devn	Lee__: What blows up with 1.3??
21:13	lazybot	devn: Definitely not.
21:14	devn	Lee__: As in, do you have a specific error? (If it's more than a line long please post it to a pastebin or gist.github.com)
21:17	dnolen	yoklov: k I looked into, there's something seriously wrong with record
21:17	dnolen	yoklov: well, a I looked into a little
21:18	yoklov	oh?
21:18	dnolen	yoklov: if I make a type and I implement only the single arg -ilookup, 10000 lookups takes 8
21:18	dnolen	which is reasonable
21:18	dnolen	yoklov: if I use a record, 10000 lookups take 330ms which is not
21:18	yoklov	oh okay
21:19	yoklov	thats interesting
21:22	dnolen	yoklov: arg, I see why
21:23	dnolen	yoklov: the implementation of -ilookup for defrecord doesn't first check to see if it's one of the field keys with a cond/condp
21:23	dnolen	yoklov: opening up a ticket, simple fix, I'll try to get to it this week
21:23	yoklov	so checking it would be faster?
21:23	dnolen	yoklov: near 40X faster or something.
21:24	yoklov	wow
21:24	yoklov	that is somewhat unintuitive, wouldnt more checks slow it down?
21:24	dnolen	yoklov: if/else cascades are quite fast in JS
21:25	yoklov	right, but what is it otherwise? a thrown exception?
21:25	dnolen	yoklov: no, nil
21:25	dnolen	just like maps
21:25	yoklov	and that's necessarially slower?
21:26	dnolen	what's slower?
21:27	yoklov	OH, i misread what you said above
21:27	yoklov	or misunderstood what the alternative to it being a field key is
21:27	dnolen	(get (merge (hash-map ~@(mapcat (fn [fld] [(keyword fld) fld]) base-fields)) ~'__extmap) k# else#)
21:27	dnolen	is the current implementation
21:27	dnolen	yes that is a hash-map merge for every lookup
21:28	yoklov	alright that makes sense
21:28	yoklov	yeah i forgot records could also contain arbitrary keys
21:29	dnolen	yoklov: I'm going to change that to cond/p + ext-map lookup for else clause.
21:29	yoklov	as i said, i've been working around this by doing (aget record (name field)) when possible, which has been working
21:29	yoklov	even if it is a ugly hack
21:39	Lee__	devn: I no longer have the text of the error (it was the standard one about not being able to find a required file on the classpath) BUT I have solved it, by adding "$PWD:" to the start of the classpath in the java call. Whew. Thanks for the attention.
21:40	devn	Lee__: glad you figured it out. I'm so used to using leiningen I feel like I've lost some of the classpath foo that used to be required.
21:41	devn	dnolen: did i see a bunch of protocol additions in clojurescript?
21:42	dnolen	devn: ?
21:42	devn	dnolen: nevermind, i might be thinking of a different project (probably clojure-scheme)
21:43	gtuckerkellogg	is lein-bin compatible yet with lein v2?
21:43	devn	Raynes: see above message
21:43	Raynes	Yikes. I forgot I even wrote that.
21:43	Raynes	No, it isn't, but it wouldn't be hard at all to update it.
21:43	Raynes	I didn't realize people actually used it or I would have already done it.
21:45	gtuckerkellogg	Yep, it gets used
21:46	dnolen	yoklov: fixed in master
21:47	yoklov	wow, that was fast
21:47	gtuckerkellogg	damn
21:50	devn	now entering dnolen country...
21:51	devn	best part is, he's also really good at explaining things
21:51	devn	(or worst part if you're jealous of his drunken master style)
21:52	yoklov	yup. extremely impressive.
21:53	devn	i'm talking about him while i'm in here so he'll either ignore me humbly, or say "aw, 'twas nothing", but david has kept the clojurescript train moving like a boss
21:53	devn	everyone should send him gifts
21:54	devn	(inc dnolen)
21:54	lazybot	⇒ 5
21:58	Raynes	Damn it.
21:59	Raynes	devn: That sucks. I just updated and released lein-bin 0.2.0 for that guy and he leaves. :(
21:59	Raynes	I just wasted a whole 4 minutes.
22:00	dnolen	ibdknox: actually I'm not so sure any more, I may have been thrown off by benching defrecord once or something.
22:00	dnolen	ibdknox: arguments performance hit is more like 2X, still that's pretty pervasive
22:04	devn	Raynes: <3
22:04	devn	Raynes: he saw you were on the case
22:04	devn	and since i'm handing out thank yous, thanks Raynes for maintaining the hell out of all of your projects
22:05	devn	you're a boss.
22:05	Raynes	Yay! Bossness!
22:06	devn	im a little scared about speaking -- the last slot and everything, yeesh.
22:07	Raynes	Wish I could be there to see it.
22:14	technomancy	devn: last slot is a drag =\
22:25	Raynes	technomancy: So is the 3rd.
22:29	mk	what is subseq supposed to do? ##(doc subseq)
22:29	lazybot	⇒ "([sc test key] [sc start-test start-key end-test end-key]); sc must be a sorted collection, test(s) one of <, <=, > or >=. Returns a seq of those entries with keys ek for which (test (.. sc comparator (compare ek key)) 0) is true"
22:31	mk	what's it supposed to be used for?
22:42	devn	technomancy: i think it'll be okay. it's not patently technical, and i have a feeling (given the conf ends on a friday night) that it won't be the "last" "session"
22:49	MGT	hey, does anyone know what's going on here? I import clojure.string as string and do (replace "a" #"a" "\\"), then get an error instead of a string containing a forward-slash character
22:49	MGT	err, should be (string/replace "a" #"a" "\\")
22:49	devn	you mean require?
22:49	MGT	yes
22:50	xeqi	&(string/replace "a" #"a" "\\")
22:50	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: No such namespace: string
22:50	xeqi	&(clojure.string/replace "a" #"a" "\\")
22:50	lazybot	java.lang.StringIndexOutOfBoundsException: String index out of range: 1
22:51	MGT	yep
22:52	devn	&(clojure.string/replace "a" #"a" "\\\\")
22:52	lazybot	⇒ "\\"
22:52	devn	not what you want, I take it?
22:53	MGT	I don't think so
22:53	devn	you're trying to replace with just "\", yes?
22:53	MGT	well, I guess it is, actually
22:53	MGT	yes
22:53	MGT	thanks, think I understand now!
22:55	devn	&(s/replace "foo" #"f" "\\\\")
22:55	lazybot	⇒ "\\oo"
22:56	devn	&(seq (s/replace "foo" #"f" "\\\\"))
22:56	lazybot	⇒ (\\ \o \o)
22:57	devn	it's a bit long -- sort of like when you're lost and you turn around before you get to your destination
22:57	devn	the required additional \\ is kind of like that IMO
22:58	holo	hi
22:58	MGT	yeah, makes sense
22:58	amalloy	there is at least one open ticket about that in jira, mgt/devn
23:00	alex_baranosky	is there anyway to pretty print (quote foo) as 'foo ?
23:10	mk	alex_baranosky: what would the function take as an argument? a single form?
23:14	dnolen_	yoklov: gotta run but that sounds good.
23:14	rhc	what's a good way in clojure to run a function after some period of time?
23:14	rhc	(future ((sleep ..) (do-function))
23:15	Raynes	(.start (Thread. (fn [] (Thread/sleep 2000) (somefunction))))
23:15	Raynes	I wouldn't use future for this.
23:15	rhc	Raynes: thanks
23:16	rhc	so its generally better to use regular java threading over future when you don't care about the result?
23:16	Raynes	future contains any exceptions that occur in its body. They don't pop up until you actually try to use the value of the future. Unless you actually want the value, I'd avoid it.
23:16	Raynes	Right.
23:16	mk	why not use an agent?
23:17	Raynes	Why not just sleep 2h && echo "foo"
23:17	Raynes	;)
23:18	rhc	mk: hmm, i'll look into that too, thanks
23:18	mk	it's strange to call java for something as common as "now start doing this in another thread"
23:19	mk	any suggestions for good talks to watch?
23:57	devn	rhc: look at at-at
23:57	devn	rhc: https://github.com/overtone/at-at