#clojure – 2012-03-08

2012-03-08

00:00	technomancy	oh that's right; what you want is filter-indexed, but for some reason it doesn't exist
00:00	tmciver	,(apply + (take-nth 2 '(1 2 51 44 66 77)))
00:00	clojurebot	118
00:00	technomancy	good man
00:01	tmciver	thanks. I'm gettin' there.
00:01	dreampeppers99	great!
00:01	dreampeppers99	and for even elements
00:01	dreampeppers99	the take-nth won't work
00:02	dreampeppers99	(apply + (take-nth 2 (rest '(1 2 51 44 66 77))))
00:02	tmciver	yup
00:02	dreampeppers99	,(apply + (take-nth 2 (rest '(1 2 51 44 66 77))))
00:02	clojurebot	123
00:02	dreampeppers99	,(apply + (take-nth 2 (rest '(1 2 3))))
00:02	clojurebot	2
00:02	dreampeppers99	,(apply + (take-nth 2 ('(1 2 3))))
00:02	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentList cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn>
00:02	dreampeppers99	,(apply + (take-nth 2 '(1 2 3)))
00:02	clojurebot	4
00:02	dreampeppers99	perfect :D
00:05	dreampeppers99	why can't I apply the reduce function instead of + ?
00:05	dreampeppers99	,(apply + (take-nth 2 '(1 2 51 44 66 77)))
00:05	clojurebot	118
00:05	dreampeppers99	,(reduce + (take-nth 2 '(1 2 51 44 66 77)))
00:05	clojurebot	118
00:05	dreampeppers99	,(reduce + (take-nth 2 '(1 2 51)))
00:05	clojurebot	52
00:05	dreampeppers99	,(apply + (take-nth 2 '(1 2 51)))
00:05	clojurebot	52
00:05	dreampeppers99	,(apply + (take-nth 2 '(1 2)))
00:05	clojurebot	1
00:05	dreampeppers99	,(reduce + (take-nth 2 '(1 2)))
00:05	clojurebot	1
00:06	dreampeppers99	nevermind silliest of mine
00:06	dreampeppers99	once again thank you guys!
00:06	dreampeppers99	:D
00:07	Lajla	Why can he dod that and not I?
00:07	technomancy	Did You Know™: it is actually possible to communicate with clojurebot via private /msg calls?
00:07	dreampeppers99	sorry for that!
00:07	dreampeppers99	I didn't know, my mistake.
00:07	Lajla	dreampeppers99, do not let them take away your freedom
00:07	technomancy	no worries; not much going on in here anyway
00:07	Lajla	your faith
00:08	ibdknox	technomancy: what's the fun in that
00:08	Lajla	your freedom to love, your freedom to hate, your freedom to worship His Divine Shadow
00:08	ibdknox	technomancy: last time I did it, clojurebot was getting inappropriate
00:08	tmciver	lol
00:08	dreampeppers99	is this the "official" irc channel for clojure?
00:08	ibdknox	yes
00:09	tmciver	ibdknox: tell him he has to take you out to dinner first.
00:09	technomancy	ibdknox: "get a room you two"?
00:09	ibdknox	haha
00:09	ibdknox	tmciver: I did, but then he was trying to guilt me saying he's never been outside of #clojure
00:10	tmciver	ibdknox: don't you fall for his tricks; you'll regret it in the morning (I know I did)
00:10	ibdknox	lol
00:10	ibdknox	tricksy little hobbitses, that one
00:11	tmciver	what's it doing?!
00:12	ibdknox	can one of you guys manufacture some more time for me?
00:13	technomancy	to the tardis!
00:13	Null-A	ibdknox: sure, don't sleep tonight.
00:14	dreampeppers99	just for the record I was trying to solve the Peasant Multiplication using Clojure. Since I'm a newbie for Clojure my solution is very poor coded. But, anyway thanks for your helping.
00:14	ibdknox	haha. Touche.
00:14	Null-A	that's what separates from clojure hackers from the boys
00:15	ibdknox	that's what I wanna be when I grow up :D
00:16	Null-A	you will one day young grasshopper
00:16	Iceland_jack	·
00:24	amalloy	technomancy: filter-indexed strikes me as annoyingly specialized (same with keep-indexed fwiw): don't clutter the stdlib with combinations of existing functions. i'd prefer to see mapcat-indexed added, and from that you can easily derive map-indexed, filter-indexed, keep-indexed, whatever you need for your actual problem
00:24	technomancy	or just ... indexed?
00:25	amalloy	i suppose. that was removed because it leads to a lot more consing, so i was assuming we keep it out
00:27	technomancy	I'd vote for keep the most general and the most efficient
00:28	ibdknox	what's this?
00:28	technomancy	ibdknox: indexed from contrib got promoted into a bunch of core functions: map-indexed, keep-indexed, and maybe another one?
00:29	ibdknox	ah
00:29	amalloy	i can't think of any others
00:29	technomancy	which is annoying because they're complected, but apparently composing map and indexed is "too slow"
00:29	technomancy	so you're on your own if you want filter-indexed
00:30	technomancy	you have to do something dumb like (filter f (map-indexed vector coll))
00:42	rlb	I'd like to partition a collection on boundaries defined by a predicate. i.e.:
00:42	rlb	(partition-foo #(re-matches "id:.*" %1) ["id: 1" "a" "b" "id: 2" "x"])
00:42	rlb	=> [["id: 1" "a" "b"] ["id: 2" "x"]]
00:42	rlb	Is there already something like that?
00:42	Iceland_jack	separate?
00:42	clojurebot	separate is in clojure.contrib.seq-utils, but just use (juxt filter remove) instead
00:43	sritchie	partition-by?
00:43	sritchie	hmm, not quite
00:43	sritchie	,(partition-by #(re-matches #"id:.*" %1) ["id: 1" "a" "b" "id: 2" "x"])
00:43	clojurebot	(("id: 1") ("a" "b") ("id: 2") ("x"))
00:44	rlb	I want the "id: .." line to be part of the group.
00:45	amalloy	(useful.seq/partition-between (fn [[a b]] (re-matches #"^id:.*" b)) coll), roughly
00:46	amalloy	https://github.com/flatland/useful/blob/develop/src/useful/seq.clj
00:46	rlb	amalloy: exactly -- thanks.
00:54	gtuckerkellogg	,(def foo "foo")
00:54	clojurebot	#<Exception java.lang.Exception: SANBOX DENIED>
00:54	gtuckerkellogg	,(java.util.regex.Pattern/compile (def foo "foo")
00:54	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: EOF while reading>
00:54	gtuckerkellogg	,(java.util.regex.Pattern/compile "foo")
00:54	clojurebot	#"foo"
00:55	gtuckerkellogg	is that the best (only) way to create a regex from a string in Clojure? (supposing (def foo "foo")
00:56	amalloy	hm, it occurs to me there ought to be a cleverer way to implement partition-between, reusing pieces of the input sequence as the args to the split? function
00:56	Raynes	amalloy: It occurs to me that a lot occurs to you.
00:57	amalloy	i'm the occurrence nexus of the country
00:57	Raynes	Have you ever considered seeing if anything occurs to a doctor about how much occurs to you? Perhaps there is a medication for it.
01:04	Null-A	gtuckerkellogg: ,(re-pattern "foo")
01:04	Null-A	,(re-pattern "foo")
01:04	clojurebot	#"foo"
01:08	gtuckerkellogg	thanks
01:34	johnmn3	What layout manager is most recommended to use with seesaw?
02:25	gf3	has anyone experience issues with validations in noir 1.2.2?
02:26	gf3	I get the following when I try to use validation/rule or validation/errors? →
02:26	gf3	ClassCastException clojure.lang.Var$Unbound cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IDeref clojure.core/deref (core.clj:2078)
02:26	gf3	with any kind of input
02:29	gf3	example → http://cloud.gf3.ca/EqcH
02:44	_ulises	morning all
02:53	seancorfield	if i have some-lib-1.4.2.jar and some-lib-1.4.3.jar on my classpath, is there some mechanism that chooses which one to load? (this question came up in another non-clojure context and after googling i'm not sure what the definitive answer is)
02:54	raek	I think that load-file will search the jars for the file in the order they appear on the classpath
02:54	raek	which can be really bad
02:56	raek	1.4.2 has foo, which uses bar and 1.4.3 has only bar, then if you have them ordered as 1.4.3, 1.4.2 on the classpath and try to load foo, version 1.4.2 of foo will load and cause version 1.4.3 of bar to load
03:00	osa1	can anyone verify that this code works on clojure 1.3 https://github.com/clojure/clojure-contrib/blob/b8d2743d3a89e13fc9deb2844ca2167b34aaa9b6/src/main/clojure/clojure/contrib/zip_filter/xml.clj#L88 ?
03:01	osa1	or is there a newer version of this?
03:04	zamaterian	osa1, read http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Where+Did+Clojure.Contrib+Go
03:09	osa1	zamaterian: ok, this doesn't work either https://github.com/clojure/data.zip/blob/master/src/test/clojure/clojure/data/zip/xml_test.clj
03:11	georgek	hi, I'm getting started with cljs and cljs/one, sometimes I kill the cljs/one repl for whatever reason, but if I want to restart the repl I get "BindException Address already in use: JVM_Bind java.net.PlainSocketImpl.socketBind", what's the right way to restart?
03:11	zamaterian	osa1, I have a project where i'm using zip xml from [org.clojure/data.zip "0.1.0"] together with clojure 1.3
03:13	osa1	zamaterian: is it on github? I could have a look
03:14	zamaterian	seancorfield, if you have one or mere lib with conficts in version in the same classpath you could use -Xbootclasspath with suns java bin
03:16	zamaterian	osa1, its in a private repository... 2 sek I will cut the relevant parts out into a gist
03:25	zamaterian	osa1, https://gist.github.com/1999613
03:28	osa1	zamaterian: great, thanks
03:47	osa1	does anyone know a function to build get data url for http from a map or vector?
03:50	osa1	whatever, I've just wrote one
03:53	zamaterian	osa1, (map slurp ["http://github.com" "http://slashdot.org/"]) :-)
03:57	osa1	zamaterian: sorry for my english. what I meant was, I need to generate URL's for from maps, for example {1 2 3 "a b"} should return me 1=2&3=a+b etc.
04:28	gtuckerkellogg	what's the easiest way to keep the non-nil members of a list?
04:29	lucian	,(filter (complement nil?) [1 2 3 nil 4 5 nil])
04:29	clojurebot	(1 2 3 4 5)
04:30	gtuckerkellogg	is that considered idiomatic?
04:30	gtuckerkellogg	how about
04:30	lucian	i don't really know, tbh. but it works
04:30	tomoj	(keep identity coll) ?
04:31	tomoj	and/or (filter identity coll)?
04:31	gtuckerkellogg	,(filter (fn [x] x) (1 2 3 nil 4 5))
04:31	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Long cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn>
04:31	gtuckerkellogg	,(filter (fn [x] x) '(1 2 3 nil 4 5 ))
04:31	clojurebot	(1 2 3 4 5)
04:32	gtuckerkellogg	although that's not exactly what I asked is it
04:32	gtuckerkellogg	hmm
04:32	tomoj	I sometimes imagine that keep has a one-arg version that is (keep identity coll)
04:32	amalloy	(remove nil? xs)
04:32	lucian	why bother with a fn? tomoj suggested identity
04:32	tomoj	oh, right
04:32	tomoj	if you really want "non-nil"..
04:32	gtuckerkellogg	ok, thanks
04:32	tomoj	(remove nil? coll)
04:34	tomoj	hmm is xs in fashion or is it just you amalloy
04:35	lucian	tomoj: i've seen it a lot in haskell and ml, like x::xs
04:35	amalloy	shrug a list where each element is x, is xs
04:35	tomoj	right
04:35	lucian	"a bunch of x -s" is what it sounds like to me
04:35	amalloy	coll is probably a better answer to this particular question, but i certainly didn't care
04:36	tomoj	I often want to use that style but feel like it's not clojure idiom
04:37	tomoj	but would probably use it more if I saw it more..
04:39	gf3	hey guys, why would noir not use atoms here? https://github.com/ibdknox/noir/blob/1.3/src/noir/session.clj#L13
04:39	clgv	tomoj: 'coll is very descriptive as well^^
04:40	zamaterian	gf3, look at line 83
04:40	zamaterian	s/83/82
04:40	clgv	gf3: because this way you can have multiple request with different sessions at the same time in different threads - that wont be possible with an atom
04:41	gf3	clgv: ahh, makes sense
04:42	gf3	clgv: I'm running into issues where I try to access the session and it is unbound
04:42	gf3	which is why I asked
04:42	clgv	gf3: then you probably forgot to add a "middleware statement" like wrap-session or something similar
04:43	clgv	gf3: this one: https://github.com/ibdknox/noir/blob/1.3/src/noir/session.clj#L55
04:47	gf3	clgv: I don't think I am, hmm
04:47	gf3	clgv: it doesn't always fail, just sometimes
04:48	clgv	gf3: if that ring middleware wrap-noir-sessions is registered correctly and you are only accessing it from requests that should be fine
04:49	clgv	gf3: if you are in clojure 1.2(.1) then there might be an issue if you access it from a different thread than the request thread
04:49	gf3	clgv: it seems to fail when accessed from a model inside a partial
04:49	gf3	page → partial → partial → model
04:53	osa1	I have a map with names for keys and integers for values, how can I sort it's values?
04:55	gf3	osa1: (sort (vals your-map))
04:55	osa1	gf3: I also need keys of this vals after sorting :)
04:57	osa1	(sort #(compare (nth %1 1) (nth %2 1)) map)
04:57	gf3	osa1: (sort #(compare (last %1) (last %2)) your-map)
04:59	y3di	hey guys, im starting out with clooj. I defined a (coin-toss) function but when I try to run it in the repl I get this error
04:59	y3di	compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:1)
05:00	y3di	in full: #<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: coin-toss in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:1)>
05:00	vijaykiran	y3di: did you (use 'yournamespace) in the repl ?
05:01	vijaykiran	where yournamespace is where you defined your coin-toss
05:01	y3di	nope, thanks
05:02	y3di	so i tried this: (use 'gamble-core)
05:02	y3di	but i get a file not found exception
05:03	raek	y3di: what is the file path of the namespace? gamble/core.clj or gamble_core.clj?
05:03	y3di	this is what I have at the top of core.clj inside my 'gamble' folder: (ns gamble.core)
05:03	raek	y3di: then do a (use 'gamble.core) :-)
05:03	raek	period in name = subdirectory in file system
05:04	raek	hyphen in name = underscore in file path
05:04	y3di	ok, thanks alot, not sure why i used hyphen in the first place..
05:14	y3di	sorry for the newb questions but im getting the same error i was before when i try to run toss-score or t
05:14	y3di	https://gist.github.com/2000130
05:15	y3di	but (coin-toss) works fine
05:19	vijaykiran	you may need to reload the namespace after you added these functions
05:19	vijaykiran	(use 'gamble.core :reload)
05:24	xkb	Hi
05:24	vijaykiran	y3di: ^^
05:24	xkb	Im working on some 4Clojure problems, and my alternative to map blows the heap. Any idea why? code is @ https://gist.github.com/2000178
05:24	vijaykiran	xkb: Hi
05:25	y3di	vijaykiran: thanks, I guess clooj doesn't auto reload on save
05:25	xkb	never mind the strange list/cons action, was trying out some alternative list creation forms
05:26	vijaykiran	btw - why pp is (def pp fn .. ) ? you can use (defn .. ) .. right ?
05:26	xkb	yes
05:26	xkb	but in 4clojure you need to answer inline
05:27	xkb	as an anoymous function I suppose
05:28	xkb	see http://www.4clojure.com/problem/118 for example
05:29	xkb	that's the one I'm working on now
05:29	pipeline	4clojure is pretty awesome
05:30	pipeline	but the "def is bad" thing drives me a little crazy since it means a bunch of copy/pasting
05:30	xkb	yep
05:30	xkb	my whole emacs scatch file is filled with def's for 4clojure :P
05:31	xkb	I did like most of the challenges
05:31	xkb	I think my solution for this one is not lazy
05:31	pipeline	of course copy/pasting only drives me crazy because some combinatino of my firefox version and the rich text js in 4clojure breaks paste from emacs
05:31	xkb	and that's why it blows
05:31	xkb	hehe
05:31	xkb	same here
05:31	xkb	so I work the other way around
05:31	pipeline	yeah I think that's how they test for laziness: huge sequences
05:31	xkb	from 4clojure past to emacs
05:32	xkb	paste*
05:32	xkb	reduce works on lazy seq's
05:32	xkb	so that can't be it
05:33	xkb	so that leaves the seq I'm building
05:34	vijaykiran	may be use lazy-cons ?
05:35	vijaykiran	http://clojure.org/lazy
05:38	xkb	hmm good tip
05:38	xkb	let's see
05:43	xkb	hehe solved it
05:43	xkb	using lazy-seq
05:44	vijaykiran	yeah .. sorry lazy-seq not lazy-cons :)
06:03	y3di	why does 'its' break the convention of possession using apostrophes? Is there a particular reason for this?
06:06	loops	ok, have spent 2 hours trying to figure out how to use leiningen, ready to set my hair on fire :oP
06:07	loops	it says you need to run v1 lein install in "leiningen-core subproject directory" where is that directory?
06:08	zamaterian	loops, leiningen is only for lein 2
06:08	loops	zam.. yeah.. i kinda answered my own question.. i just dont have a v1 to use for bootstrapping
06:08	zamaterian	loops, ups leiningen-core is only for lein 2
06:09	loops	so i was checking it out from git history, but of course that removes the v2 leiningen-core directory ;o)
06:10	loops	bit of a catch-22, would be nice if old version wasn't needed for us noobs ;o)
06:13	loops	just checked out v1 and renamed the script to lein1... and used it for bootstrap.. easy once ya grok the problem
06:14	loops	thx zama
06:15	vijaykiran	y3di: I think the rule (or exception rather) is for all the possesive pronouns
06:17	y3di	yea i forgot that it was the same way for his, hers, whose, etc
06:44	randomnamehere	hi ;)
06:45	randomnamehere	How can I yield functions for each entry in a list ?
06:45	randomnamehere	("x" "y" "z") << delete (x) delete (y) delete (z) ... ?
06:45	clgv	randomnamehere: example?
06:46	clgv	is (map delete '("x" "y" "z")) what you mean?
06:46	clgv	&(map inc [1 5 9])
06:46	lazybot	⇒ (2 6 10)
06:47	randomnamehere	maybe reduce?
06:47	clgv	can you give input and epected output?
06:47	thorwil	map is lazy, isn't it?
06:47	clgv	yes
06:48	randomnamehere	input: ["people_9b59a761-f360-4e53-98b4-d2352b275a70" "people_a563d6e9-841b-4f2c-87c2-c7e697f9d104"]
06:48	randomnamehere	output should be function calls to (.delete ... )
06:48	clgv	ah
06:48	clgv	(doseq [p people] (.delete p))
06:49	clgv	that will call 'delete on each 'p from the 'people collection
06:49	randomnamehere	Repeatedly executes body (presumably for side-effects) with bindings and filtering as provided by "for" << "for" =
06:49	clgv	for is lazy again^^
06:50	randomnamehere	I do not understand the documentation of that ;)
06:50	randomnamehere	(doseq [p people] (.delete p)) << where is the "for" ?
06:50	raek	randomnamehere: doseq uses the same syntax as for
06:50	clgv	no for needed. you can use the same optional parameters as in 'for
06:50	clgv	(doseq [p people :when (.ugly p)] (.delete p)) ;)
06:51	raek	(for [p people] (.delete p)) yields a lazy sequence of the return values of the .delete calls
06:51	randomnamehere	is it also possible to use: (reduce (.delete p) [p people]) ?
06:51	raek	doseq is similar, but does not create a sequence and is not lazy
06:52	raek	randomnamehere: you cannot call reduce like that
06:52	clgv	randomnamehere: if you dont want to return a value 'reduce is wrong.
06:52	clgv	randomnamehere: what's your objection concerning 'doseq ?
06:52	randomnamehere	dosseq documentation: Does not retain the head of the sequence. Returns nil.
06:53	clgv	yep. it's intended for side effects and not returning anything
06:53	randomnamehere	none objection clgv , I only really try to understand what I do
06:53	clgv	randomnamehere: ok. doseq is more like a for-loop in c++ or java
06:53	randomnamehere	okay and if .delete returns futures which can tell if the delete happened i have to use some other things
06:54	raek	(doseq [p people] (.delete p)) expands into something like (loop [ps people] (when (seq ps) (.delete (first ps)) (recur (rest ps))))
06:54	clgv	randomnamehere: than you could use (doall (map #(.delete %) people)) where 'doall is needed to force deletion immediately
06:54	raek	randomnamehere: yes, if you care about the return values, use for or map
06:54	clgv	*then
06:54	randomnamehere	Ahh,... but it does not happen in parallel ;(
06:55	randomnamehere	How can I feed a list in and do parallel .delete actions?
06:55	raek	randomnamehere: submit them to an ExecutionService
06:56	raek	randomnamehere: you said that .delete returns a future. does that mean that the work of .delete is performed in another thread?
06:56	randomnamehere	is there no simple solution in clojure, like (doparallel [p people] (.delete p))
06:57	raek	well, there is pmap, which is like map but performs some of the calculation in parallel
06:57	randomnamehere	Ahh raek, you are right...
06:57	raek	but only a fixed number of them at the same time
06:58	randomnamehere	wow, nice. But it seem I do not need pmap cause the java library behind also creates threads
06:58	randomnamehere	(doall (map #(.delete %) people)) << this is more kind of functional style, isn't it?
06:58	lucian	you could also use memfn, but it's not really a significant improvement
06:59	raek	if you want to block for all of them to return, you could do (doseq [f (map #(.delete %) people)] (.get f))
06:59	raek	sorry
06:59	raek	(doseq [f (doall (map #(.delete %) people))] (.get f))
06:59	randomnamehere	What does #( %) ?
07:00	randomnamehere	% is each item?
07:00	raek	#(.delete %) is a short form for (fn [x] (.delete x))
07:00	raek	you cannot write just ".delete" since java methods are not clojure functions
07:00	lucian	you could also do (map (memfn .delete) people)
07:00	raek	(memfn predates the #(...) shorthand syntax)
07:01	lucian	uh, without the dot. (memfn delete)
07:01	randomnamehere	but delete only tooks one value, not the whole keyset
07:01	lucian	of course, that's what map does
07:02	lucian	raek: you're right, i just found it more clear sometimes
07:03	randomnamehere	(doseq [p people :when (.ugly p)] (.delete p)) ;) << i like that one
07:03	raek	randomnamehere: in case you need to do the threading yourself sometime: http://blog.raek.se/2011/01/24/executors-in-clojure/
07:04	raek	the last example is the most relevant
07:04	randomnamehere	(doseq [f (doall (map #(.delete %) people))] (.get f)) << this one?
07:04	raek	sorry, the last repl example in the blog post :-)
07:05	raek	anyway, an explanation of (doseq [f (doall (map #(.delete %) people))] (.get f)):
07:05	randomnamehere	future-call ?
07:05	raek	first it uses map to create a lazy sequence iof (.delete p1) (.delete p2) (.delete p3)...
07:05	raek	randomnamehere: no the one before that
07:06	randomnamehere	ahh ok
07:06	raek	then 'doall' is used to make sure all .delete calls have been forced
07:06	raek	at this point all the .deletes are ticking in the background
07:06	raek	then we iterate over all the futures they returned and wait for them to finish, one by one
07:07	raek	using the doseq loop
07:07	randomnamehere	yeahh!
07:07	randomnamehere	super-awesome
07:08	raek	assuming you have the java.util.concurrent.Future kind of futures
07:10	randomnamehere	"doseq should be a vector"
07:11	randomnamehere	hmpf
07:13	raek	randomnamehere: did you mean "doseq requires a vector for its binding"?
07:13	randomnamehere	yes
07:13	randomnamehere	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Parameter declaration doseq should be a vector
07:14	randomnamehere	(doseq [f (doall (map #(.delete %) (cget bucket)))] (.get f))
07:14	randomnamehere	mh
07:14	raek	the syntax of doseq requires you to first have a vector of name-expression pairs and then one or more body expressions
07:14	randomnamehere	isn't this the case?
07:14	randomnamehere	[f ...] (body)
07:14	raek	yes
07:15	randomnamehere	So why doesn't clojure like it?
07:15	raek	randomnamehere: that line parses for me
07:15	raek	does it look exactly like that in your code?
07:16	randomnamehere	(defn cremoveall "Removes all items from collection including the head node" (doseq [f (doall (map #(.delete %) (cget bucket)))] (.get f)))
07:16	randomnamehere	ahh
07:17	randomnamehere	missed [bucket]
07:17	raek	yeah
07:17	raek	ah, now I see
07:17	raek	you can have variadic defns like this: (defn foo ([] ...) ([x] ...) ([x y] ...))
07:18	raek	and clojure tried to parse your (doseq ...) as a ([x y] ...)
07:18	raek	ergo the "doseq should be a vector"
07:22	randomnamehere	(defn cdeleteall "Removes all items from collection including the head node" [bucket] (doseq [f (doall (map #(.delete (find-connection) %) (cget bucket)))] (.get f)))
07:22	randomnamehere	now i need to append the value of bucket to the list returned by cget bucket
07:23	randomnamehere	think conj will work
07:48	tutysara_	I am wanted to change the path to the lein executabe, I got this command from techomancy - (setq clojure-swank-command "/path-to-lein/lein jack-in %s"). I am putting this in the scratch bufffer and executing it (M-x eval-buffer). Is that the right way to do this?
07:48	tutysara_	*technomancy
07:49	lucian	i'm assuming you have your real path there
07:51	tutysara_	lucian : yes you are right, i am using this - (setq clojure-swank-command "/cygdrive/c/cygwin/home/Administrator/bin/lein jack-in %s")
07:51	lucian	you might want to put that in your ~/.emacs if you want it to happen when you open emacs
07:53	tutysara_	lucian : if i execute it from scratch buffer will it wont take effect immediately for that session, I am evaluating this command from scratch and the next thing I do is hit M-x clojure-jack-in and see if it works
07:54	tutysara_	lucian : if i execute it from scratch buffer will it wont take effect immediately for that session ?, I am evaluating this command from scratch and the next thing I do is hit M-x clojure-jack-in and see if it works
07:54	lucian	what you eval should take effect
07:56	tutysara_	lucian : any way i will try your suggestion, put that in .emacs and see if that works
07:59	tutysara_	lucian : same error buddy : (
07:59	lucian	what is the error?
08:06	tutysara_	start-process-shell-command: Spawning child process: invalid argument
08:17	gf3	ibdknox: am I wrong in thinking build-dirs should include (:src-dir opts)? https://github.com/ibdknox/noir-cljs/blob/master/src/noir/cljs/watcher.clj#L108
08:25	clgv	gf3: are you using noir with cljs? did you find a good guide for it?
08:25	gf3	clgv: I'm attempting to
08:26	clgv	gf3: will your project be on github?
08:26	gf3	clgv: and no, I haven't found a good guide, I am considering writing one
08:26	clgv	gf3: even better ^^
08:26	gf3	woo
08:27	randomnamehere	I want to remove a part from an entry in memcached...
08:27	randomnamehere	clojurestack.memcache=> (with-mc db-nodes (cgetmap "people")) #<HashMap {people_621a0f2c-9376-4476-b23f-57f99ac9c0de="hanna-lena" , people_dfa7df94-39ef-45b7-9cf1-22d3311507bd="martin" }>
08:28	clgv	I have build a little webapp that renders incanter charts for some timeseries. the app could be a little more responsive via js...
08:28	randomnamehere	(defn cdeleteitem "Removes item from collection" [bucket item] (let [bucketcontents (cgetmap bucket)] )
08:28	randomnamehere	how to find the item with (= ...) and get the key to remove?
08:30	clgv	randomnamehere: do you know it's key?
08:30	nachtalp	randomnamehere: try to use filter maybe?
08:30	gju	anyone else having problems installing swank-clojure via lein?
08:31	clgv	randomnamehere: if not you can treat the map as collection of key-value-pairs
08:31	randomnamehere	yes clgv this should work
08:35	randomnamehere	filter + map
08:38	randomnamehere	(filter #(= "martin" (val %)) (with-mc db-nodes (cgetmap "people")))
08:38	randomnamehere	()
08:38	randomnamehere	mhh
09:18	gtuckerkellogg	So i have a big long vector, which I'd like to be able to modify in a concurrent fashion.
09:18	gtuckerkellogg	there's no coordination needed
09:18	gtuckerkellogg	but two thread should not modify the same element
09:19	gtuckerkellogg	as I undertand it (and I may not) my recommended option would be to creat this as a vector of atoms
09:20	clgv	gtuckerkellogg: the same element at the same time or the same element at all in the whole runtime?
09:20	gtuckerkellogg	i meean agents
09:20	gtuckerkellogg	the same element at the same time
09:21	gtuckerkellogg	it's a non-deterministic algorithm where threads can modify individual elements of the array
09:22	gtuckerkellogg	so if it's a vector of agents, individual threads can modify them asynchronously and without coordination, and no collisions can ever happen
09:22	clgv	gtuckerkellogg: hm then vector of atoms sounds about right, if concurrent modifiations of the array at different elements are allowed
09:22	gtuckerkellogg	yes, they are
09:23	gtuckerkellogg	they can be asynchronous, so it could be agents, right?
09:23	clgv	I dont understand the last question
09:24	gtuckerkellogg	why use atoms instead of agents?
09:26	gtuckerkellogg	that's what I was asking in the last question
09:27	chouser	gtuckerkellogg: you might consider a ConcurrentHashMap if performance is a goal. http://docs.oracle.com/javase/1.5.0/docs/api/java/util/concurrent/ConcurrentHashMap.html
09:27	chouser	Not sure how well a map will work for you instead of a vector.
09:27	gtrak`	atoms are much lighter-weight, if it's not worth the overhead of an STM and task processing consider atoms
09:28	gtrak`	your vector will effectively be a vector of AtomicReferences
09:28	clgv	gtuckerkellogg: it's a question what you want. atoms are just coordinating access to a value. an agent has a value that is modified by jobs in its eventqueue
09:29	gtuckerkellogg	thats' a helpful way of putting i
09:29	gtuckerkellogg	it
09:29	randomnamehere	how can I exclude something from a list
09:29	randomnamehere	["people_621a0f2c-9376-4476-b23f-57f99ac9c0de" "people_dfa7df94-39ef-45b7-9cf1-22d3311507bd" "people_fdd5e1f7-464a-4980-a691-d65e1c24a0fe"]
09:29	gtrak`	filter
09:31	clgv	filter
09:31	gtrak`	,(take 5 (cycle 'filter))
09:31	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: clojure.lang.Symbol>
09:32	clgv	&(take 5 (cycle ['filter]))
09:32	clgv	,(take 5 (cycle ['filter]))
09:32	clojurebot	(filter filter filter filter filter)
09:33	gtrak`	,(filter #(not (= % 'filter)) (take 5 (cycle ['filter])))
09:33	clojurebot	()
09:33	gtrak`	,(filter #(= % 'filter) (take 5 (cycle ['filter])))
09:33	clojurebot	(filter filter filter filter filter)
09:34	lnostdal	i'm using locally generated snapshots; is there some way (an option or something) of making lein not look for updates from various external resources?
09:34	lnostdal	e.g. stuff like "[INFO] snapshot org.clojure:math.numeric-tower:0.0.2-SNAPSHOT: checking for updates from clojars" .. i don't need or want that
09:35	gtrak`	there's the lein checkouts feature
09:36	lnostdal	so i just symlink a checkouts folder to ~/.m2/repository ?
09:37	lnostdal	kinda hard to tell whether it worked because sometimes lein doesn't "check for updates"
09:38	lnostdal	who'd want to update random dependencies at random points in time while doing development? .... doesn't make sense
09:39	clgv	lnostdal: lein's checkouts feature is to link another lein project in the checkouts folder
09:40	gtrak`	lol mindspring
09:40	gtrak`	lnostdal, so basically you skip the part where you generate the snapshot and just link in the source
09:42	lnostdal	gtrak`, i've found that that stuff doesn't actually work; some projects have several directories with source .. which they install via mvn install or lein install as separate mvn projects etc.
09:42	lnostdal	ring seems to do this i think
09:42	gtrak`	ah, yea, I think checkouts assumes just pure clojure source
09:43	gtrak`	lnostdal, I imagine for the ring subprojects you'd have to link in each individually
09:43	lnostdal	yes, something like that .. and it's just stupid; not gonna deal with that
09:44	gtrak`	yea, from looking at it, that's exactly what you'd do
09:44	lnostdal	..and i recall trying anyways, and it didn't work in some casess
09:50	gtrak`	i think it won't work if the project has custom tasks or plugins or hooks
09:53	clgv	gtrak`: checkouts works with java source as well
09:54	gtrak`	oh, nice, maven projects too?
09:54	clgv	gtrak`: afaik it uses the project.clj of the checkouts project
10:01	randomnamehere	yeah, finished.
10:01	randomnamehere	http://goo.gl/0SYZX
10:04	randomnamehere	Feel free to improve :) If you have any hints what can be done better this is also welcome
10:05	clgv	randomnamehere: what is memcached?
10:06	randomnamehere	http://memcached.org/
10:06	randomnamehere	one of the fastest memory caching systems out there
10:07	randomnamehere	You can use it as key value store with http://www.couchbase.com/couchbase-server/features
10:07	randomnamehere	Then it is persistent to disc, distributed and so on
10:07	beffbernard	Question: Anyone have success running a swt app on emacs + swank-clojure? It requires the java process run with this switch -XstartOnFirstThread
10:07	dgrnbrg	In clojure.core.jdbc in clojure 1.3, if I have functions that use with-connection, and I call them within another function's with-connection to the same DB, will it reuse that connection?
10:08	randomnamehere	The other NoSQL stuff is full of Logic, Query systems and so on. This makes this kind of systems very slow
10:08	beffbernard	I can run fine with lein run but I'd like to be more interactive and run it on emacs
10:09	randomnamehere	Even faster than sql databases, but memcached has outstanding performance. There are a lot of java applications which put a lot of data (HTTP-Sessions) to memcached instead of the sql-db
10:10	raek	beffbernard: does it work to add that option to the project.clj file?
10:10	beffbernard	raek: I have this in my project.clj :jvm-opts ["-XstartOnFirstThread"]
10:14	randomnamehere	clgv: but memcached offers not functionality to store collections of items. The application has to implement such things itself. It works very well for small pieces of data. On Heroku for example you can store bigger data in EC2 buckets. I a solution like memcached + ec2 seems nice
10:19	randomnamehere	If you have any ideas how to improve it, let me know ;)
10:19	lpetit	clgv: hello
10:19	clgv	lpetit: hi
10:20	lpetit	clgv: have you seen the announce for the new beta version of CCW today ?
10:20	clgv	lpetit: oh, not yet. thx
10:20	randomnamehere	what is a CCW?
10:21	lpetit	clgv: it's really just a bunch of paredit/strict mode bug fixes, so really worth upgrading
10:21	clgv	randomnamehere: eclipse plugin for clojure named counterclockwise
10:22	lpetit	clgv: and the leiningen support is going well. Not sure I'll be ready to release at the same time as leiningen 2, we'll see :)
10:22	clgv	lpetit: today I missed something like leiningen support. I had a bugfix in one of my basic libs that required me to alter 5 buildpaths ;)
10:23	lpetit	clgv: I intend to release leiningen support separately from ccw, so that life cycles are separate, until it's good enough to be shipped along ccw.
10:24	lpetit	clgv: and this will allow me to deliver something quicker, even if not feature complete
10:24	lpetit	s/quicker/faster/
10:24	clgv	ah ok
10:26	lpetit	clgv: first release either today, either next thursday, with a leiningen class path container, a button to enable/disable "leiningen support" (automatically adding the leiningen container to the build path + a builder re-computing the leinigen dependencies every time the project.clj file is touched) + a button to manually force the re-computation of the leiningen dependencies from the project.clj file.
10:27	clgv	lpetit: =)
10:28	clgv	lpetit: I get persuaded more and more that I need to hack CCW's repl view to support history search like in the bash
10:29	lpetit	clgv: I remember you talked about this earlier. Did you also file an issue for this? If not, would be great.
10:30	clgv	lpetit: no issue, yet.
10:30	lpetit	clgv: please, help yourself ;-)
10:31	clgv	lpetit: gotta find an easy way for a 3D plot in java first ;)
10:31	lpetit	clgv: "Take a pause, File an issue" :)
10:36	dgrnbrg	What's the best library for making a CLI program if I'm using lein-uberjar?
10:45	clgv	dgrnbrg: there is a with-command-line macro
10:45	TimMc	What does that do?
10:46	dgrnbrg	clgv: is that the easiest/slickest way? will it work w/ uberjar?
10:46	TimMc	dgrnbrg: Wait, do you want something like GNU GetOpt, or a shell-like interface?
10:47	dgrnbrg	like getopt
10:47	TimMc	check out clojopts
10:47	dgrnbrg	I have a cli program I want to distribute
10:50	TimMc	dgrnbrg: Here's an example of clojopts in use: https://github.com/timmc/kpawebgen/blob/master/clj/src/kpawebgen/core.clj#L44
10:52	clgv	TimMc: looks similar to the with-command-line one. maybe some more features ^^
10:53	TimMc	clgv: Where does with-command-line live?
10:54	clgv	TimMc: good question. I found it via google a long time ago
10:54	TimMc	I see it in contrib...
10:55	TimMc	I'd trust clojopts more, since it is backed by GetOpt itself.
10:56	TimMc	Also, I can verify that it uses juxt in at least one place.
11:05	dgrnbrg	I have a jar I depend on that's not in a maven repo
11:05	dgrnbrg	how do I make uberjar stop deleting it?
11:07	TimMc	dgrnbrg: Put it in a repo.
11:08	TimMc	dgrnbrg: s3-private-wagon will allow you to keep it in S3
11:08	dgrnbrg	TimMc: that's not an option. It's impossible for me to get maven to work/use a repo at work
11:08	dgrnbrg	can I copy it somewhere to trick maven?
11:08	dgrnbrg	or is there another artifacts dir so I can check it into my reop?
11:08	dgrnbrg	*repo?
11:08	TimMc	Oh, I remember this problem now... you've got this proxy problem.
11:08	dgrnbrg	Yeah
11:09	dgrnbrg	I did solve that, but it's painful
11:09	dgrnbrg	and setting up a new repo is impossible (effectively)
11:09	dgrnbrg	I just need to get tools.jar from java7
11:09	clgv	lpetit: done
11:09	clgv	dgrnbrg: you can switch off implict cleans
11:10	dgrnbrg	clgv: how do I do that?
11:10	clgv	dgrnbrg: it's in the example on the leiningen readme
11:10	dgrnbrg	got it, thanks
11:11	TimMc	dgrnbrg: I think you can also add things explicitly to the classpath.
11:12	dgrnbrg	interesting...
11:12	dgrnbrg	I'll investigate all these things
11:13	TimMc	dgrnbrg: Always worth another skim through the sample project file.
11:13	dgrnbrg	TimMc: indeed it is :)
11:14	dgrnbrg	I just spend so much time looking up things that I get lazy sometimes ;)
11:15	randomnamehere	(= (list __) '(:a :b :c))
11:15	randomnamehere	what might __ be?
11:15	raek	:a :b :c?
11:15	Bronsa	without the question mark.
11:15	raek	it can't be just one value
11:16	randomnamehere	it works, but why?
11:17	Bronsa	,(list :a :b :c)
11:17	clojurebot	(:a :b :c)
11:18	dgrnbrg	do you know any programmatic APIs to interact w/ the AST of java source? I'm using doclet, but it's really slow and crappy, and I'm concerned it'll be hard to use antlr
11:18	clgv	humm clojars doesnt list my uploaded jar :(
11:18	TimMc	randomnamehere: Doing 4clojure problems?
11:19	randomnamehere	yes TimMc
11:19	randomnamehere	,(:a :b :c)
11:19	clojurebot	:c
11:19	randomnamehere	WTF?
11:19	TimMc	Yeah, I've complained in the past that it's not really clear that a blank can take multiple expressions.
11:20	lucian	randomnamehere: unquoted lists are executed
11:20	raek	dgrnbrg: antlr is actually pretty painless to use from clojure
11:20	TimMc	randomnamehere: Oh, that has to do with keywords acting as functions.
11:20	raek	check out the lein-antlr plugin
11:20	lucian	in this case :a is a function, and it's called with :b and :c as arguments
11:20	randomnamehere	lucian: and they are quoted with list ?
11:20	vijaykiran	How can I "replace" a value for key in a vector of maps .. ?
11:20	Bronsa	randomnamehere: thats kinda like (get :b :a :c)
11:20	clgv	what do I need to add to a jar to have it registered in clojars?
11:20	Bronsa	it returns :c because it's not-found-value
11:20	lucian	randomnamehere: (list :a :b :c) means calling the function list with :a :b :c as params
11:20	Bronsa	,(doc get)
11:20	clojurebot	"([map key] [map key not-found]); Returns the value mapped to key, not-found or nil if key not present."
11:20	lucian	,'(:a :b :)
11:20	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.RuntimeException: Invalid token: :>
11:20	dgrnbrg	raek: thanks
11:21	lucian	,'(:a :b :c)
11:21	clojurebot	(:a :b :c)
11:21	randomnamehere	,(list a b c)
11:21	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: a in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
11:21	randomnamehere	whiy isn't this working?
11:21	Iceland_jack	,(list 'a 'b 'c)
11:21	clojurebot	(a b c)
11:21	randomnamehere	quoting,.mhhh
11:21	TimMc	clgv: Nothing in particular. Just follow the clojars instructions.
11:21	lucian	,(= (list :a :b :c) '(:a :b :c))
11:21	clojurebot	true
11:21	dgrnbrg	raek: is there a javac task as well?
11:21	Bronsa	randomnamehere: you have to (quote) or ' in order to prevent things to be evaluated
11:21	randomnamehere	,(list "a" "b" "c")
11:21	clojurebot	("a" "b" "c")
11:21	clgv	TimMc: hm ok, trying the "POM" wikipage now
11:21	raek	dgrnbrg: yes, that's built in leiningen
11:22	randomnamehere	okay, understood
11:22	TimMc	clgv: Huh? No, the instructions are here: http://clojars.org/
11:22	randomnamehere	but why does :a work when : does no quotation?
11:22	TimMc	clgv: Just `lein jar, pom` and `scp pom.xml mylib.jar clojars@clojars.org:`
11:22	Bronsa	because symbols evaluate to themselves
11:22	amro	:a is a keyword
11:22	Bronsa	,(eval :a)
11:22	clojurebot	#<Exception java.lang.Exception: SANBOX DENIED>
11:22	amro	it always evaluates to itself
11:22	Bronsa	oh :(
11:22	clgv	TimMc: it's a java dep not available in any maven repo
11:23	Bronsa	user=> (eval :a)
11:23	Bronsa	:a
11:23	raek	dgrnbrg: this is how my project.clj file looks like https://gist.github.com/2001893
11:23	TimMc	clgv: Ah! Yeah, you'll need to build a pom.xml for it and push both at the same time.
11:23	raek	when I have edited the grammar, I run "lein antlr && lein javac" and restart clojure from emacs by running clojure-jack-in
11:24	dgrnbrg	raek: awesome…that looks perfect/easy
11:24	Bronsa	clgv: use this https://github.com/ato/lein-clojars
11:24	raek	I was really surprised that it worked so well
11:24	Bronsa	then you just need to `lein push`
11:25	TimMc	You'll still need a pom.
11:25	raek	it was way messier to get it working in an eclipse java project
11:25	TimMc	Bronsa: That's for pushing from a lein project, not just some random jar, yeah?
11:25	Bronsa	i think so
11:26	clgv	ah well. seems it worked.
11:32	TimMc	clgv: Which?
11:32	clgv	TimMc: ?
11:32	TimMc	which worked?
11:32	clgv	ah. I added it via the pom
11:32	clgv	lein-clojars didnt work for me in the past
11:33	randomnamehere	,(reverse "DLROW OLLEH")
11:33	clojurebot	(\H \E \L \L \O ...)
11:34	Iceland_jack	,(apply str (reverse "DLROW OLLEH"))
11:34	clojurebot	"HELLO WORLD"
11:34	Iceland_jack	(:
11:41	frito	Hi, any pointers to calling Java classes with main methods.
11:42	frito	For instance if I instantiate one, is main called implicitly or does it have to be explicit
11:42	clgv	frito: main is a static method and is not called automatically
11:43	frito	OK - thx
11:43	TimMc	frito: You call Foo/main, not (.main (Foo.))
11:43	TimMc	Well, (Foo/main)
11:44	randomnamehere	(= (__ "Dave") "Hello, Dave!")
11:44	randomnamehere	,(= (str "Hello, " "Dave") "Hello, Dave!")
11:44	clojurebot	false
11:44	TimMc	&(str "Hello, " "Dave")
11:45	TimMc	Raynes: Can you restart lazybot?
11:45	TimMc	,(str "Hello, " "Dave")
11:45	clojurebot	"Hello, Dave"
11:45	randomnamehere	how to move the ! to the end?
11:46	TimMc	randomnamehere: While it is possibleto solve this one by putting two expressions in the blank, you could also use an inline function.
11:46	TimMc	also, there is a #4clojure channel, just so you know :-)
11:48	clgv	randomnamehere: (format "Hello, %s!" "Dave")
11:48	randomnamehere	java.security.PrivilegedActionException: java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn (NO_SOURCE_FILE:0)
11:49	randomnamehere	ahh seen it
11:49	clgv	,(#(str "Hello, " % "!") "Dave")
11:49	clojurebot	"Hello, Dave!"
11:49	TimMc	So, kind of the point of 4clojure is to teach yourself this stuff.
11:50	TimMc	It's kind of weird to ask for answers, or give them (without asking if spoilers are OK)
11:59	clgv	how was the fast way to get a two dimensional vector in a 2-dim array?
11:59	clgv	*2-dim double array
12:03	TimMc	Some combo of map and into-array?
12:07	clgv	hmyeah (into-array (map double-array ...))
12:10	lancero	is there any online guide on installing clojure 1.3 / emacs 24 / swank / clojure-mode on windows?
12:10	randomnamehere	lancero: good question ;)
12:12	owain`	Clojure box is a quick way to get set up if you're forced to use Windows for any reason. Not sure what version of Emacs. Might be 23
12:12	owain`	http://clojure.bighugh.com/
12:15	llasram	lancero: The first step is to realize that you don't "install" Clojure. To install something that gives you a Clojure environment, install Leiningen. lein supports windows, emacs supports windows, and everything else Should Just Work [1]
12:15	llasram	[1] Not tested myself. YMMV :-)
12:17	lancero	llasrm: well I could rephrase my questions to: any online guide to getting lein / clojure 1.3 / emacs 24 / swank / clojure-mode to just work on windows?
12:18	llasram	Follow the official instructions for installing each individual thing?
12:18	llasram	Not being facetious
12:35	gf3	is there something like (filter) but it stops after the first match?
12:35	gf3	like (some) but it returns the item, not a boolean
12:35	RickInGA	&(some odd? [1 2 3])
12:35	TimMc	gf3: (first (filter ...))
12:36	RickInGA	filter is lazy, so you should be able to take 1
12:36	RickInGA	(take 1 (filter odd? [1 2 3]))
12:36	gf3	okay cool, thx
12:36	RickInGA	&(take 1 (filter odd? [1 2 3]))
12:36	TimMc	RickInGA: But that gives back a seq, not a value.
12:36	RickInGA	is lazybot sleeping, or am I doing something wrong?
12:36	TimMc	*the value
12:37	TimMc	Yeah, botdown.
12:37	dakrone	,(take 1 (filter odd? [1 2 3]))
12:37	clojurebot	(1)
12:38	RickInGA	,(some odd? [1 2 3])
12:38	clojurebot	true
12:38	RickInGA	doh, I thought that returned the first item
12:39	Bronsa	,(first (filter odd? [1 2 3]))
12:39	clojurebot	1
12:42	bpsm	(some f xs) returns the first ( f x) which is truthy, not the first x for which (f x) is truthy.
12:43	RickInGA	bpsm: thanks
12:43	bpsm	Presumably there's some clever idiom that takes advantage of that behavior, but I don't know it.
12:45	RickInGA	don't know if anyone on is in the Atlanta area, but a few from this channel are getting together at Harp Irish Pub in Roswell this evening.
12:46	llasram	RickInGA: Doh! I'm in Atlanta, but have other plans tonight
12:46	llasram	I didn't actualy realize this city hosted other Clojure users :-)
12:46	gf3	rude
12:47	llasram	Incipient users group?
12:48	RickInGA	llasram I think so. There is a Lisp meetup group, not sure how active it is.
12:48	RickInGA	gf3 rude?
12:49	gf3	(just kidding)
12:49	RickInGA	gf3: ok, :) You're invited too! where are you?
12:49	gf3	sadly I'm in Toronto
12:50	llasram	RickInGA: That'd be pretty cool. I'm definitely interested
12:50	zawzey	Hi, any idea why there's a bug here: https://gist.github.com/6a8fe84c110a54203937
12:50	zawzey	The number of items in the map is less than the input
12:50	ibdknox	gf3, yeah that should be part of the watcher.
12:51	gf3	ibdknox: okay cool, 'cause I find things are getting a bit messy putting it all in "src/"
12:51	ibdknox	gf3, haha you can tell which codepath I use ;)
12:52	gf3	ibdknox: :D
12:53	dnolen	redinger: think we can starting filling out the GSoC app today?
12:54	zawzey	Formatted to make the code legible
12:54	ibdknox	dnolen, I'm going to add a couple projects tonight
12:54	llasram	zawzey: I don't think sorted-map-by or comparators work the way you think they do
12:54	dnolen	ibdknox: sweet! the more the merrier
12:55	zawzey	llasram: and how would you explain that
12:55	ibdknox	I think a good, pretty easy one would be to create noir-static. A little static site generator that reads Noir's route table
12:55	zawzey	llasram: i'm aware usually for sorted-by keys are being compared, but i would like to sort based on the values
12:55	jkkramer	zawzey: you probably want a priority-map instead. sorted map items that compare as equal are considered the same item
12:55	ibdknox	we can have our own, much cooler jekyll :)
12:55	zawzey	jkkramer: ahh, i see
12:55	llasram	,(apply sorted-map-by (constantly 0) (range 20))
12:56	jkkramer	zawzey: https://github.com/clojure/data.priority-map
12:56	clojurebot	{0 19}
12:56	zawzey	jkkramer: but then again, if i compare the keys instead of the key-value sorted-map-by works
12:57	gf3	ibdknox: oh, another little issue I noticed, if the path contains "cljs" it fails to parse properly
12:57	jkkramer	zawzey: because the keys are distinct
12:57	gf3	ibdknox: for example the following files won't generate "src/my-app/cljs/core.cljs"
12:57	gf3	ibdknox: but this will: "src/my-app/js/core.cljs"
12:58	ibdknox	gf3, weird
12:58	ibdknox	gf3, as in it fails to watch it, or the compiler doesn't compile it?
12:58	zawzey	jkkramer: i see, thanks...
12:58	zawzey	llasram: gotcha, thanks
12:58	ibdknox	oo
12:58	gf3	ibdknox: both I guess
12:59	ibdknox	gf3, yeah don't do that
12:59	ibdknox	haha
12:59	ibdknox	you're replace cljs.core
12:59	ibdknox	replacing*
12:59	llasram	zawzey: You can just make sure the keys compared are unique: https://gist.github.com/ee28d4333002d516dffd
12:59	gf3	ibdknox: ruh roh
12:59	llasram	s,are unique,are distinct if the keys are actually distinct,
13:00	ibdknox	it should be fine if it's cljs/something/core.cljs
13:00	ibdknox	I think that path is hardcoded in the compiler
13:00	ibdknox	you might want to file a bug for it
13:00	gf3	ibdknox: indeed, just not the watcher
13:01	jkkramer	llasram: zawzey: if you assoc/dissoc that map, though, it will not be sorted by the new values
13:01	llasram	jkkramer: true
13:04	zawzey	llasram: great, thanks
13:05	zawzey	i should add that example to clojuredocs
13:10	di-csuehs	reminder to self: "for" list comprehension is lazy....still.
13:34	rplevy	does anyone who uses cucumber-clojure (cucumber-jvm) know if reading tabular data is broken?
13:45	jsabeaudry	The disadvantage of using send-off everywhere instead of send is higher resources usage?
13:45	gtrak`	is there a complement to the bean function?
13:46	TimMc	gtrak`: What would that do?
13:46	gtrak`	set properties from a map of keywords to vals on a bean
13:47	TimMc	hmm
13:47	TimMc	An existing bean object, existing class (instantiating and then pumping in vals), or creating a class for the vals?
13:48	technomancy	(doto (java.util.Properties.) (.putAll {"hello" "world"}))
13:49	raek	jsabeaudry: yes.
13:50	raek	send uses a fixed size thread pool and send-off allocates new threads when needed
13:50	raek	if your functions don't block or take very long time to execute, it's safe to use send
13:51	jonasen	dnolen: Time for another core.logic question?
13:51	dnolen	jonasen: shoot
13:51	jonasen	https://refheap.com/paste/972
13:51	jonasen	dnolen: the first expression doesn't unify. Why?
13:52	dnolen	you can't just use a dot like that
13:52	dnolen	(_ . _), (_ _ . _) etc are the only valid ways to use .
13:52	jonasen	dnolen: ok
13:53	gtrak`	TimMc, yes, an existing class, for instance a spring bean
13:53	dnolen	jonasen: actually I guess (. _) currently works, not sure what I think about that.
13:53	Lajla	raek, my love.
13:53	Lajla	Let us worship His Shadow together.
13:54	dnolen	jonasen: but no, the . only works with list syntax, I don't see an obvious issue at the moment with it working with vectors ... feel free to open a ticket.
13:54	jonasen	I would like to unify (fn [. ?x] (?fun . ?x)) with (fn [x y] (+ x y)) if you know what I mean
13:56	Bronsa	what are the advantages of using core.logic's unifier over core.unify?
13:57	jonasen	dnolen: core.logic is new territory for me... so expect a silly question daily.
13:59	dnolen	jonasen: why not (fn ?args (?fun . ?args)) ?
14:01	jonasen	dnolen: That seems to work. Thanks!
14:01	dnolen	jonasen: out of curiosity whats kinds of features are you all adding?
14:02	jonasen	dnolen: this rule is for suggesting (map inc [1 2 3]) instead of (map #(inc %) [1 2 3])
14:02	gtrak`	TimMc, I found a solution in setter-fn: https://bitbucket.org/kumarshantanu/clj-argutil/src/d4732e993c30/src/main/clj/org/bituf/clj_argutil.clj
14:02	dnolen	jonasen: ha, nice :)
14:03	dnolen	jonasen: do you all have a lein-kibit yet?
14:05	dnolen	jonasen: heh, I see that lein kibit already works.
14:07	jonasen	dnolen: yes. It should work. You'll need to use master with lein 2.0 though.
14:08	dnolen	I haven't ventured yet into lein 2.0, does it just work? i.e. no breakage?
14:09	technomancy	dnolen: most of the breakage is in 3rd-party plugins
14:09	technomancy	all the core changes are handled for you by lein-precate
14:10	_ulises	what's the preferred way of parsing (possibly broken) HTML? is it with enlive?
14:11	technomancy	most of the broken plugins are the more obscure ones; lein-ring and lein-midje are the only widely-used ones that still aren't compatible
14:13	ibdknox	I should go fix mine, huh?
14:14	chouser	_ulises: I've used tagsoup successfully
14:14	ibdknox	there's a clj-tagsoup as well
14:14	ibdknox	https://github.com/nathell/clj-tagsoup
14:15	chouser	data.xml ought to work on top of tagsoup
14:15	technomancy	ibdknox: lein-noir? would be cool to get it on newnew, yeah
14:15	ibdknox	it technically is
14:15	jkkramer	_ulises: I've had best results with jsoup. no clojure wrapper, but it's an html5-compliant parser
14:15	dnolen	jonasen: ohpauleez emailed me about recursively applying rules, did you all sort this out?
14:16	_ulises	interesting
14:16	_ulises	thanks for the responses, now I have to go and investigate
14:16	dnolen	technomancy: hmm, Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NullPointerException when I try to run lein2
14:18	technomancy	dnolen: there's a known issue when you first run it outside a project without any profiles
14:19	technomancy	fixed in master, but I haven't pushed an updated preview2 yet
14:21	jonasen	dnolen: I think I know how to do it. Just got to read some prolog literature first :)
14:21	dnolen	jonasen: k, let me know if you all need more pointers
14:21	dnolen	technomancy: thx, that works
14:23	ivan	is there any literature on dynamically scoped variables? when do you use them instead of passing things around?
14:24	dnolen	ivan: it's instructive to see where Clojure uses them. They are awesome, but really should be used very sparingly. kinda like macros.
14:25	randomnamehere	,(fn [x & y] (last (sort (y))) 1 8 3 4)
14:25	clojurebot	#<sandbox$eval27$fn__28 sandbox$eval27$fn__28@eb6899>
14:25	randomnamehere	,(fn [x & y] (doall (last (sort (y)))) 1 8 3 4)
14:25	clojurebot	#<sandbox$eval55$fn__56 sandbox$eval55$fn__56@4bddfd>
14:25	ivan	dnolen: thanks, I'll take a closer look
14:27	`fogus	,((fn [x & y] (last (sort y))) 1 8 3 4)
14:27	clojurebot	8
14:37	`fogus	technomancy: What service do you use to print Lein stickers?
14:37	technomancy	`fogus: I used psprint.com; they were fine.
14:38	`fogus	Excellent, thank you
14:38	Raynes	`fogus: Print me some fogus stickers. I'd wear those with pride.
14:42	`fogus	Just pretend this is me: http://www.zazzle.com/lucha_libre_mexican_wrestling_sticker-217976188315608984
14:43	TimMc	`fogus: I already do.
14:43	Raynes	Wait, it isn't?
14:43	tylergillies	lolz
15:03	randomnamehere	,(apply (fn dx [x & y] (if-not (= nil (next y)) (dx y) y)) [1 2 3 4 5])
15:03	clojurebot	nil
15:03	randomnamehere	why nil? hmpf
15:03	randomnamehere	,(apply (fn dx [x & y] (if-let [d (next y)] (dx y) y)) [1 2 3 4 5])
15:03	clojurebot	nil
15:05	raek	randomnamehere: you're never doing anything with x
15:05	randomnamehere	raek: I know it is just to test
15:05	raek	randomnamehere: what do you expect it to output?
15:06	randomnamehere	the last item
15:07	raek	,(apply (fn dx [x & y] (if-let [d (next y)] (apply dx y) y)) [1 2 3 4 5])
15:07	clojurebot	(5)
15:07	raek	randomnamehere: ^
15:08	raek	,(apply (fn dx [x & y] (if (seq y) (apply dx y) x)) [1 2 3 4 5])
15:08	clojurebot	5
15:08	randomnamehere	ahhh apply does the trick?
15:09	raek	yes
15:09	randomnamehere	why do I need it?
15:09	raek	dx takes the input as separate arguments
15:09	duck1123	without apply, you'd only be passing one
15:09	TimMc	randomnamehere: The same reason apply was used in the original call to dx
15:10	raek	if you do (dx y) you call it with only one argument - the items wrapped in a collection
15:10	randomnamehere	but It should be evaluated if it is in () TimMc ?!
15:10	randomnamehere	ahhh raek understand ;)
15:10	TimMc	randomnamehere: Yes... but apply isn't just "call"
15:12	randomnamehere	TimMc: what then?
15:13	TimMc	I mean, it ends up calling the function, but arranges the arguments differently.
15:16	randomnamehere	Found another solution
15:16	randomnamehere	v
15:16	randomnamehere	#(nth % (dec (count %)))
15:17	randomnamehere	It's better than just #(first (reverse %))
15:17	randomnamehere	isn't it`
15:17	randomnamehere	reverse builds a new list in memory, count does not?!
15:17	TimMc	&(doc count)
15:17	lazybot	⇒ "([coll]); Returns the number of items in the collection. (count nil) returns 0. Also works on strings, arrays, and Java Collections and Maps"
15:18	randomnamehere	&(doc reverse)
15:18	lazybot	⇒ "([coll]); Returns a seq of the items in coll in reverse order. Not lazy."
15:18	randomnamehere	I assume getting the index is better ^^
15:18	TimMc	randomnamehere: count does a constant-time count when possible, but when given a seq it walks it (and realizes it)
15:18	llasram	&(count (range))
15:19	lazybot	Execution Timed Out!
15:19	randomnamehere	How does the bots here work?
15:19	TimMc	llasram: Interestingly, (range) is no longer an infinite seq in 1.3.
15:19	randomnamehere	Is there anywhere the source of the bots
15:19	TimMc	randomnamehere: Yeah, just look on github.
15:19	llasram	TimMc: You mean 1.4...?
15:20	randomnamehere	TimMc: which project?
15:20	TimMc	randomnamehere: I don't know, use Google.
15:20	TimMc	(or DuckDuckGo, or Bing, or Altavista...)
15:20	randomnamehere	is it your bot? Have you written it?
15:20	TimMc	nope
15:21	TimMc	llasram: 1.3 switched to non-autopromoting arithmetic by default
15:21	randomnamehere	WTF DuckDuckGo
15:21	llasram	randomnamehere: This is lazybot: https://github.com/flatland/lazybot
15:22	Raynes	Holy crap. lazybot has 65 watchers.
15:22	Raynes	amalloy: We're being watched.
15:22	Raynes	Act natural.
15:22	llasram	TimMc: Right... Oh! so therefore it's bounded by maxint!
15:23	TimMc	&(take 2 (range (- Long/MAX_VALUE 64) Double/POSITIVE_INFINITY))
15:23	lazybot	⇒ (9223372036854775743 9223372036854775744)
15:23	TimMc	&(take 2 (range (- Long/MAX_VALUE 1) Double/POSITIVE_INFINITY))
15:23	lazybot	java.lang.ArithmeticException: integer overflow
15:25	llasram	&(take 2 (range (bigint (- Long/MAX_VALUE 1)) Double/POSITIVE_INFINITY))
15:25	lazybot	⇒ (9223372036854775806N 9223372036854775807N)
15:25	llasram	So consistent, at least
15:25	llasram	That makes complete sense to me
15:25	jsabeaudry	&(send-off (agent {}) (fn [a] (send-off (agent {}) (fn [b] (println "foo") b)) (Thread/sleep 5000) a))
15:25	lazybot	java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! send-off is bad!
15:26	jsabeaudry	Can anyone explain why "foo" takes 5 seconds to appear?
15:26	llasram	But it is non-obvious what the correct behavior of (range) should be then :-/
15:26	llasram	(to me)
15:27	jsabeaudry	Are agents tasks only sent at the end of the current agent task or something?
15:27	llasram	jsabeaudry: the raison d'etre of agents is to serialize uncoordinated updates to a value
15:27	TimMc	&(take 3 (iterate #(+' % 1) (- Long/MAX_VALUE 1)))
15:27	lazybot	⇒ (9223372036854775806 9223372036854775807 9223372036854775808N)
15:28	llasram	jsabeaudry: So the second send-off queues the task right away, but it doesn't actually run until the first one finishes
15:29	TimMc	Change one to a send, see what happens.
15:29	jsabeaudry	llasram, even though they are two diffrent agents?
15:29	llasram	blarp
15:29	llasram	My brain totally failed to parse that :-)
15:30	jsabeaudry	TimMc, no difference
15:33	jsabeaudry	This looks like a bug to me
15:33	Raynes	It's not a bug, it's a feature.
15:34	TimMc	You're just saying that.
15:34	Raynes	I say that to all the bugs.
15:35	llasram	Looking at clojure.lang.Agent, it has explicit code to defer queue any other agent executions from within a given agent
15:37	llasram	There's static thread-local holding persistent vector. If it's null when the agent action is enqueued, the action is sent to the executor queue right away
15:38	llasram	If it's not null, the action is cons'd onto the vector
15:39	TimMc	llasram: How is action failure handled?
15:39	llasram	And when agent actions run the start by setting the thread-local to an empty vector, and finish by enqueueing actions in their thread-local queue to the pool
15:39	TimMc	Is the queue dropped?
15:39	llasram	Ah! Yes
15:39	llasram	If the agent fails, any queued agent actions are silently dropped
15:39	TimMc	Same with dosync and failure/retry
15:40	llasram	Slightly unexpected to me, but makes total sense
15:40	jsabeaudry	llasram, Ah that must be the reason why they arent dispatched immediately
15:42	llasram	And it is documented on clojure.org/agents: "If during the [action] function execution any other dispatches are made (directly or indirectly), they will be held until after the state of the Agent has been changed."
15:42	jsabeaudry	Well in this case, I can't use agents, I guess I'll go with good old locks
15:42	llasram	Cool. Good to know.
15:43	jsabeaudry	llasram, Thank you very much for your help!
15:43	llasram	np
15:43	randomnamehere	Can the bot be used to do any damage?
15:43	randomnamehere	or is it kind of sandboxed?
15:43	TimMc	Doubly sandboxed.
15:44	TimMc	randomnamehere: The JVM sandbox prevents I/O, etc.
15:45	TimMc	randomnamehere: The Clojure sandbox (clojail, for lazybot) prevents you from messing up the Clojure environment (redefining things, etc.)
15:45	Raynes	TimMc: You used the phrase 'doubly sandboxed' -- you must have watched my conj talk.
15:46	TimMc	NOPE.
15:46	Raynes	TimMc: We can't be friends.
15:46	TimMc	YEP.
15:47	TimMc	randomnamehere: Oh, and clojurebot automatically restarts every 15 minutes, probably because it doesn't have very good Clojure environment sandboxing.
15:47	brehaut	TimMc: lazybot throws out its sandbox too doesnt it?
15:48	TimMc	Don't ask me, I didn't watch Raynes' talk.
15:48	randomnamehere	I wanna watch the talk later
15:48	tmciver	zing!
15:48	randomnamehere	Raynes: is the bot from you?
15:48	Raynes	TimMc: No, it never throws out its sandbox.
15:48	randomnamehere	Or the jail?
15:48	Raynes	randomnamehere: Both the jail and the bot are me and amalloy.
15:48	TimMc	It just dies periodically and has to be restarted.
15:48	randomnamehere	I can't make HTTP Calls, IO or so from the bots? So how do the plugins do?
15:48	TimMc	randomnamehere: clojurebot is run by hiredman
15:49	Raynes	The bot was originally me with some amalloy on top. The jail was both me and amalloy equally, I'd think.
15:49	TimMc	randomnamehere: The jailed eval thingy is a plugin.
15:49	Raynes	The sandbox only applies to the code you execute via & and ##. It doesn't apply to the plugins.
15:49	Raynes	The plugins are free to do whatever they like.
15:49	randomnamehere	nice!
15:50	randomnamehere	I thought about also host a bot
15:50	randomnamehere	clojure is fun
15:50	randomnamehere	but I'm afraid of losing control and be part of a botnet :)
15:50	doug	ok, i've got a freshly-developed clojure app that talks to a browser app via websockets
15:51	randomnamehere	Raynes: is there any documentation about the sandboxing?
15:51	doug	i'm trying to figure out what the best option for deployment is
15:51	doug	packaging everything and running jetty?
15:51	lake	I just created a hello_world.clj file, how do I run it?
15:51	Raynes	randomnamehere: https://github.com/flatland/clojail
15:53	doug	i guess the first issue should be: do people actually use clojure in production?
15:53	doug	if not, i guess lein run is all that's needed
15:53	Raynes	Of course they do.
15:54	TimMc	but lein run can be sufficient for a lot of use cases
15:54	randomnamehere	Hahah Raynes nice text about security in the end
15:54	randomnamehere	technicans tend to say, yes that is realistic
15:55	randomnamehere	businessman will think, we will not but that :)
15:55	randomnamehere	secure-enough... :)
15:55	TimMc	Raynes: I think I've seen the slides, but not the video.
15:55	lake	i found my answer: java -cp /usr/share/clojure/clojure.jar clojure.main problem1.clj
15:55	lake	seems long winded
15:56	TimMc	lake: Use Leiningen, it is way easier.
15:57	the-kenny	Anyone using paredit with Emacs 24? I can't get it to work nicely with { and }
15:57	TimMc	De facto clojure build/dev tool.
15:57	the-kenny	{} works fine in Fundamental mode + paredit, as soon as I enable clojure-mode or any other lisp-mode, curly braces are broken.
15:57	randomnamehere	Is anyone of you rich h. ?
15:58	the-kenny	{ inserts the closing } correcly, hitting DEL doesn't remove the matching } anymore. Typing } to move to the closing } is broken too.
15:59	llasram	the-kenny: What does emacs say the } key is bound to?
15:59	the-kenny	llasram: } paredit-close-curly
16:00	the-kenny	{ is paredit-open-curly, as expected.
16:00	TimMc	randomnamehere: Not as far as I know. He's only in here rarely, and uses his real name.
16:00	randomnamehere	He can be proud about that big community
16:00	randomnamehere	and all that stuff like lein and so on
16:00	the-kenny	As I said, it works fine in Fundamental Mode. The bindings look the same when I switch to lisp-mode, but there paredit-*-curly is broken. (Same in clojure-mode)
16:01	Vinzent	Hi. I wonder why flatten on sets always returns an empty seq?
16:02	Vinzent	As stated in its doc, it "Takes any nested combination of sequential things". Woudn't be better if it'd throw an exception when set is passed?
16:02	tmciver	,(doc flatten)
16:02	clojurebot	"([x]); Takes any nested combination of sequential things (lists, vectors, etc.) and returns their contents as a single, flat sequence. (flatten nil) returns an empty sequence."
16:02	tmciver	sets aren't sequential.
16:02	TimMc	~flatten
16:02	clojurebot	flatten just means you failed to use ->> and mapcat correctly
16:03	TimMc	~flatten
16:03	clojurebot	flatten is rarely the right answer. Suppose you need to use a list as your "base type", for example. Usually you only want to flatten a single level, and in that case you're better off with concat. Or, better still, use mapcat to produce a sequence that's shaped right to begin with.
16:03	TimMc	&(sequential? #{})
16:03	lazybot	⇒ false
16:03	tmciver	TimMc: why does clojurebot give two different responses there?
16:03	TimMc	Vinzent: ^ and ^^
16:03	llasram	the-kenny: My elisp-fu is defeating me, but my spider sense is suggesting that your syntax table under clojure-mode doesn't have {} properly paired
16:03	TimMc	tmciver: Multiple factoids stored under "flatten".
16:04	Vinzent	tmciver, yes, I know, I've written about it. The problem is that it doesn't throw an exception, but returns ().
16:04	tmciver	TimMc: so if you keep issuing a ~something it iterates through them?
16:04	TimMc	tmciver: Random selection.
16:04	TimMc	tmciver: Ask it ~paste repeatedly (in /query clojurebot of course)
16:05	the-kenny	llasram: Hm. But then I must have the same error in lisp-mode and lisp-interaction-mode as well. I haven't changed any variable in these modes.
16:05	jlaskowski	Hi
16:05	Vinzent	TimMc, thanks, but I've asked the question not becuase I'm using flatten, I just found this strange behaviour by accident.
16:05	tmciver	Vinzent: do you expect it to? The doc isn't specific about the behavior with sets.
16:05	jlaskowski	Why am I not able to set a :dynamic metadata for vars in clojure 1.3.0?
16:06	Vinzent	tmciver, well, sets are not sequentials, and flatten expects a sequential. It's pretty clear that sets are not correct input for this function.
16:06	llasram	the-kenny: I think {} aren't usually considered paired in other lisp-modes
16:07	llasram	the-kenny: AH, here we go: try having emacs evaluate (string (char-syntax ?\})) in a clojure-mode buffer
16:07	the-kenny	llasram: yup, but paredit ignores this. squared braces works fine there.
16:07	tmciver	jlaskowski: I can set :dynamic meta in my 1.3 repl.
16:07	Vinzent	jlaskowski, (def ^:dynamic foo) works for me
16:08	jlaskowski	is ^:dynamic for unbound vars only?
16:08	Raynes	nopw.
16:08	Raynes	nope*
16:08	jlaskowski	what's your (clojure-version)?
16:08	jlaskowski	"1.3.0"
16:09	jlaskowski	user=> (def ^:dynamic b 1)
16:09	jlaskowski	^{:ns #<Namespace user>, :name b, :line 1, :file "NO_SOURCE_PATH"} #'user/b
16:09	jlaskowski	and binding form warns me about reassignment
16:09	jlaskowski	(I've even been looking at the source code of clojure :))
16:10	Vinzent	jlaskowski, maybe it's because you named it b, not b
16:10	Vinzent	(just a guess)
16:10	jlaskowski	nope
16:10	tmciver	,(source flatten)
16:10	clojurebot	Source not found
16:10	jlaskowski	earmuffs just make the warning earlier when used in def
16:10	tmciver	&(source flatten)
16:10	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: source in this context
16:11	the-kenny	llasram: Huh, wait. I just restarted Emacs, and now the curly braces work in clojure-mode, but still fail in other lisp-modes. Evaluating your code returns ")" in (not broken) clojure-mode and "_" in broken lisp-modes.
16:11	jlaskowski	I've already spent almost half a day and am stuck
16:12	tmciver	Vinzent: a look at the source for flatten has it using sequential? for the branch funtion to tree-seq. Looks like that's why it returns (). It doesn't throw for things that aren't sequential.
16:12	Raynes	tmciver: https://refheap.com/paste/974
16:12	Raynes	My favorite flatten.
16:12	tmciver	Raynes: Where's that from? Is it yours?
16:13	Raynes	It's in clojail.
16:13	Raynes	Man, has nobody seen my talk?
16:13	tmciver	Raynes: I saw it . . . I was there. :)
16:13	Raynes	Hahaha, oh.
16:13	Raynes	This is the flatten-all I mentioned in said talk.
16:14	tmciver	Raynes: I haven't memorized that part yet.
16:14	Vinzent	tmciver, I understand it doesn't :) they definitely should start using trammel
16:14	TimMc	jlaskowski: Probably needs more context.
16:14	Raynes	The reason for it is ##(flatten [[{:foo :bar}]])
16:14	lazybot	⇒ ({:foo :bar})
16:14	Raynes	It doesn't flatten maps.
16:14	Raynes	flatten-all does
16:14	TimMc	Raynes: And that makes it hard to look for bad symbols, yes.
16:14	TimMc	<- hasn't seen the talk, though
16:15	the-kenny	llasram: Ah, now I why it doesn't work in *-lisp-mode. clojure-mode does some modifications to the syntax table in order to make { and [ work nicely. While this doesn't explain why M-{ (which didn't work in clojure-mode two hours ago) works flawlessly now, I'm happy. Thanks for your help :)
16:16	Vinzent	Raynes, that makes sense (probably), thank you!
16:16	Raynes	Huh, did I help you?
16:16	Vinzent	don't you?
16:17	Raynes	Oh, were you the one asking about flatten?
16:17	Vinzent	yep
16:17	Raynes	Oh, you're welcome. Come again.
16:18	Bronsa	why is it seq and not just identity?
16:18	amalloy	more characters, bro. gotta trim down that source code
16:19	Raynes	By using juxt.
16:19	Raynes	Amirite?
16:19	Bronsa	lol
16:27	randomnamehere	Raynes: about RefHeap We aren't entirely satisfied with existing pastebins
16:28	randomnamehere	What is your problem with github gist?
16:28	Raynes	I think Gist is great, but there are some things we can do with refheap that they aren't doing with gist.
16:28	Raynes	For example, simple code evaluation is coming soon.
16:29	Raynes	Revisions and such as well.
16:29	randomnamehere	Raynes: gist has revisions
16:29	Raynes	Yes, I know.
16:29	ibdknox	also it's going to use the Angelina AI to turn your pastes into a game
16:29	Raynes	I also like our website better in general.
16:30	Raynes	I like the fact that it is open source and we can do whatever we want with it on a whim.
16:30	Raynes	It is written in Clojure with an emphasis on Clojure, so if Clojure people want something, they can easily contribute.
16:30	TimMc	Such as add and remove iguanas?
16:30	technomancy	why would you remove an iguana?
16:30	ibdknox	that's just ridiculous
16:30	doug	how can i read an environment variable in clojure?
16:30	TimMc	I don't know, ask Raynes!
16:31	TimMc	doug: System/getProperty ?
16:31	Raynes	I've done a bit of work on Pygment's Clojure lexer, so the Clojure highlighting is better in refheap than in gist (though once gist updates its pygments, that'll change).
16:31	ibdknox	TimMc: professionalism and all that. Raynes is entering the working world soon, it's tainting him
16:31	Raynes	But our highlighting is more complex in general.
16:31	Raynes	TimMc: Noooo
16:31	doug	maybe System/getenv
16:31	Raynes	System/getenv
16:31	TimMc	Ah, that's the one.
16:31	ibdknox	System/doTheRightThing
16:32	Raynes	randomnamehere: The biggest thing is that we can do whatever we want with refheap. Can't do that with gist.
16:32	llasram	the-kenny: Cool. Glad to help!
16:32	randomnamehere	Raynes: yeah
16:32	ibdknox	also it's fun?
16:32	ibdknox	that should be enough
16:33	Raynes	RefHeap doesn't really stand out from other pastebins yet, but it will. We've got lots of ideas. The issue tracker has most of them.
16:33	Raynes	And as long as people like ibdknox are interested in it and using it, I'll still be motivated to work on it.
16:34	doug	not sure i like this
16:34	doug	(if-let [dir (System/getenv "XDG_RUNTIME_DIR")] dir (System/getenv "HOME"))
16:34	randomnamehere	Nice Raynes, I like it
16:35	ibdknox	doug: use or
16:35	Raynes	It's also pretty awesome that it seems to have become the defacto pastebin for #clojure.
16:35	ibdknox	(or (System/getenv "X..") (System/getenv "HOME"))
16:35	Raynes	TimMc despises BrowserID but still recommends the site. :D
16:36	ibdknox	Raynes: I think TimMc might actually be a robot controlled by clojurebot
16:36	ibdknox	so I assume his motives are likely subversive
16:36	doug	ibdknox++
16:38	llasram	(inc ibdknox)
16:38	lazybot	⇒ 7
16:39	randomnamehere	Raynes: I think the design is a bit dark
16:41	Raynes	Heh
16:41	TimMc	beep
16:41	TimMc	I mean
16:41	ibdknox	Clojure is akin to dark magic
16:41	TimMc	"hah hah"
16:41	ibdknox	PROOF
16:41	Raynes	It'll get even darker when I work in codemirror because I'll be using the same color theme as the pastes.
16:44	randomnamehere	that makes my eyes tired ;(
16:44	ibdknox	huh
16:45	ibdknox	just use gist then :)
16:45	Raynes	I wasn't aware that dark colors easily made eyes tired.
16:46	ibdknox	it's a holy war
16:46	Bronsa	it's proven
16:46	Raynes	No colors I could ever choose would satisfy everybody.
16:47	ibdknox	Bronsa: source?
16:47	ibdknox	every time I've ever seen this come up, I've never seen anything even remotely close to definitive
16:47	Bronsa	i remember an article posted on HN some months ago
16:47	randomnamehere	Raynes: dark, non dark skin, switchable with javascript shortcut and remembering function will be a big plus
16:47	bigs	couple of people did a science
16:48	dan`b	or just tell people to use greasemonkey :-)
16:48	TimMc	or Stylish
16:48	randomnamehere	Write a URL shortener? Nice ?
16:48	randomnamehere	I've written an image hosting app
16:48	amalloy	my IRC client is light-themed, and just looking at this discussion makes my eyes tired. counterexample right there?
16:48	dan`b	I find dark text/light backgrounds easiest, but that's just as likely to be habit as anything else
16:48	randomnamehere	but for url-shortener you'll need a short domain
16:48	technomancy	it depends on the lighting of the room you're in, among other things
16:49	tmciver	And I want a pony, and a train set and a . . .
16:49	ibdknox	randomnamehere: huh?
16:49	Raynes	ibdknox: He is talking about an issue.
16:49	bigs	eww url shorteners
16:49	Raynes	ibdknox: Where I mentioned I was considering writing a URL shortener.
16:49	TimMc	randomnamehere: Ugh, don't bring another URL shortner into the world, unless you're prepared to maintain it and defend it against spam.
16:49	ibdknox	oh
16:49	Raynes	TimMc: Me, bro.
16:49	randomnamehere	which is easy to remember and short = $$$
16:49	Raynes	Not him.
16:49	TimMc	Raynes: That goes for you too.
16:50	drostie	tmciver: rainbow dash is mine, get your own pony. :x
16:50	ibdknox	technomancy: we did a basic study at MSFT, the overwhelming majority preferred a dark theme
16:50	Raynes	Switchable colors on refheap are an idea. I'm just not sure people will ever spend so much time on the site as to have a chance to care.
16:51	TimMc	ibdknox: Dark theme allows more colors, as far as I can tell.
16:51	technomancy	the color of the background isn't even really the deciding factor; it's how much contrast is present between the background and the text
16:51	ibdknox	TimMc: significantly
16:51	amalloy	or notice. 75% of features on a website never get noticed by a user
16:51	Raynes	amalloy: That too.
16:51	Raynes	I would never use it.
16:52	randomnamehere	thx technomancy
16:52	Raynes	RefHeap is bright enough that I can see it in sunlight.
16:52	randomnamehere	the contrast is the problem
16:52	randomnamehere	haven't known how to tell...
16:52	Raynes	I was using a higher contrast color theme for the actual code a few days ago.
16:52	Raynes	But some guy opened an issue complaining about it, and it hurt my eyes as well.
16:53	brehaut	the tricky thing with contrast is that as active lit screens get better, it becomes harder to get a good contrast for everyone
16:53	ibdknox	yeah, I don't sit there and stare at pastes all day that I would care about this
16:55	amalloy	a real friend of Raynes would make the refheap browser window always-on-top
16:55	Raynes	Of course.
16:56	randomnamehere	Raynes: why do you have a checkbox and not a create private & create public button on it?
16:56	randomnamehere	Do not want to copy too much from gist? ;)
16:56	Raynes	Because having two buttons to do the same thing in different ways is tacky.
16:56	Raynes	In slightly different ways*
16:57	Raynes	Private vs non-private is a 'yes' or 'no' state, which is what a checkbox is for.
16:57	Raynes	I'd rather have a button there though. A toggle button.
16:57	Raynes	That changes colors when clicked.
16:57	Raynes	But I'm not good enough with design to do that.
16:57	ibdknox	go go JavaScript
16:57	TimMc	Raynes: And shape, too.
16:58	Raynes	ibdknox: I think jquery ui has something like this.
16:58	Raynes	I haven't looked into it though.
16:58	ibdknox	TimMc: it turns into a hypercube
16:58	TimMc	Raynes: I think like 10% of the population has some form of color vision defect or anomaly.
16:58	Raynes	It could be an open padlock icon that when clicked turns into a closed padlock icon.
16:58	randomnamehere	I talked to many people who said it is an advantage not to have a checkbox when adding company code and you miss out the checkbox ;)
16:59	randomnamehere	More common than clicking on the wrong button
16:59	TimMc	randomnamehere: Umm... don't put company code on a public pastebin? o.O
16:59	randomnamehere	TimMc: only unsensitive things
16:59	TimMc	shrug
17:00	Raynes	Maybe instead of a checkbox or button at all, people can just cover up the pastebox with their hands to keep other people from seeing.
17:00	ibdknox	the troll gaze is strong with this one
17:00	Raynes	Private!
17:00	TimMc	Raynes: WORKS_FOR_ME
17:01	technomancy	more importantly, works for the TSA
17:01	ibdknox	lol
17:01	ibdknox	~rimshot
17:02	clojurebot	Badum, tish
17:06	randomnamehere	TSA?
17:07	ibdknox	..
17:07	Raynes	$google TSA
17:07	lazybot	[TSA \| Transportation Security Administration \| U.S. Department of ...] http://www.tsa.gov/
17:07	randomnamehere	nice
17:11	ibdknox	this is definitely going to attract good candidates: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3681659
17:17	technomancy	anyone know enough about lein-ring to explain what the in-war-path does?
17:20	llasram	Provides a source of puns?
17:21	technomancy	yes, I can't help but think staring at all this code about wars is going to leave me with some violent tendencies
17:23	pipeline	ibdknox: i don't see a problem
17:23	ibdknox	my initial reading of it was basically "not very good? You can do this then!"
17:24	ibdknox	just the headline
17:25	TimMc	It looks cool on second glance only.
17:26	randomnamehere	have a look
17:26	randomnamehere	https://refheap.com/paste/984
17:27	jodaro	that sounds like taskrabbi
17:27	jodaro	t
17:35	uvtc	I'm finding that searching clojars for libs is not very fruitful, because the clojar pages I find only tell how to fetch the lib for my project. Very few seem to have a link back to their github page.
17:35	ibdknox	just use google/github search
17:35	ibdknox	or ask here
17:36	technomancy	uvtc: if you can report bugs with libraries that don't have URLs, it would be helpful
17:36	technomancy	but 90% of them are easily found on github
17:36	technomancy	how would I test if lein-ring uberwar worked?
17:36	technomancy	do I need tomcat or something?
17:36	ibdknox	yeah
17:37	technomancy	booooooring
17:37	ibdknox	lol
17:37	ibdknox	I agree
17:37	uvtc	technomancy, I can do that. Maybe the community as a whole should plan a day to just pore over Clojars packages looking for ones that don't have a link ...
17:37	uvtc	Or maybe that could be automated.
17:38	technomancy	it could and should be automated
17:38	technomancy	the clojuresphere codebase would make it easy
17:38	technomancy	sounds like a great starter project for someone looking to learn Clojure! =D
17:38	randomnamehere	Is there a collection of useful clojure links?
17:38	uvtc	Unable to find clojuresphere on clojars search {ducks} :)
17:38	technomancy	haha
17:39	technomancy	http://clojuresphere.herokuapp.com
17:45	ibdknox	http://www.clojure-toolbox.com/
17:47	jeffdik	off to the Greenville Java Users Group ... I really need to start a Clojure Users Group
17:48	uvtc	ibdknox, thanks for that link. Didn't know about it.
17:48	TimMc	jeffdik: Subvert the acronym and turn it into a JVM Users Group
17:50	uvtc	technomancy, will look into the source code for clojuresphere. Hopefully though someone will beat me to that project.
17:50	uvtc	s/someone/someone else/
17:53	justicefries	la clojure vs enclojure vs emacs?
17:55	TimMc	Emacs if all else is equal.
17:55	TimMc	But go with what you know.
17:55	justicefries	I didn't catch that, I had to restart and my ZNC didn't catch me up
17:56	TimMc	justicefries: Emacs if all else is equal, but go with what you know.
17:56	technomancy	don't learn emacs and clojure at the same time
17:56	amalloy	he said if you don't use emacs you're lame
17:56	justicefries	I'm a vim user. :D
17:56	justicefries	but SLIME seems wrong.
17:56	TimMc	amalloy and technomancy are both correct.
17:56	TimMc	justicefries: You can use vim with Clojure!
17:57	justicefries	I have the VimClojure plugin.
18:02	gtrak`	should new clojure users use lein 2 or stick to 1.7 for now?
18:05	technomancy	gtrak`: probably best for them to stick with 1.x for now
18:06	gtrak`	that's what I figured
18:12	gtrak`	I emailed that riddell.us guy like two weeks ago to take his shit down, now I have a friend that got confused by him... grrrrr
18:12	lazybot	The riddell.us tutorials are much more highly-ranked on Google than they deserve to be. They're old and way too complicated. If you're trying to install Clojure...don't! Instead, install Leiningen (https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/tree/stable) and let it manage Clojure for you.grrrrr
18:33	acagle	/flush
18:36	seancorfield	hey perezd !
18:36	perezd	hey there
18:38	rfgpfeiffer	org-babel clojure support still requires slime
18:43	rfgpfeiffer	technomancy: can I run clojure-jack-in conditionally only when it is not connected yet?
18:45	technomancy	sure, just check slime-connected-p first?
18:47	rfgpfeiffer	thanks, i forgot that emacs uses -p on predicates
18:47	sjl	I've got two libraries I want to glue together: metrics-clojure and ring. What's the right way to structure this? A contrib.ring namespace in metrics-clojure? A separate metrics-clojure-ring project?
18:48	ibdknox	sjl: separate project
18:48	technomancy	rfgpfeiffer: elisp tip: pretend it's the 80s
18:48	sjl	ibdknox: yeah, that's what I was leaning toward
18:48	brehaut	technomancy: replace everything with a 4GL?
18:49	technomancy	brehaut: pretend your language is to primitive to support non-alphanumerics in identifiers is what I was thinking
18:49	brehaut	technomancy: thats probably less of a handicap
18:49	sjl	ibdknox: unrelated, but where can I send pull requests for Noir's website/docs? I don't see a docs/ folder in the noir repo or a gh-pages branch...
18:50	ibdknox	sjl: what's the bug? http://github.com/ibdknox/webnoir
18:51	technomancy	holy smokes; lein-ring is sloooooooow on lein1
18:51	technomancy	what the heck
18:51	sjl	ibdknox: I think the middleware page should give an example of using a middleware that takes arguments... had to hunt around to figure out it's not (add-middleware (foo "arg")) like it would be if you were using ->
18:53	ibdknox	sjl: ah, looks like the add-middleware docstring could just use a little adjusting
18:54	arohner	If I have a fn that needs to use (locking), is there an idiom for the monitor to use that's similar to _ in variable names?
19:02	technomancy	weavejester: hey
19:03	TimMc	riddell.us 1 2 3 4 testing
19:03	lazybot	The riddell.us tutorials are much more highly-ranked on Google than they deserve to be. They're old and way too complicated. If you're trying to install Clojure...don't! Instead, install Leiningen (https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/tree/stable) and let it manage Clojure for you.testing
19:04	TimMc	amalloy: Why does lazybot append the last word of my msg there?
19:04	qbg	It's too lazy to drop it?
19:07	amalloy	huh
19:07	amalloy	my lazy regex, i guess
19:09	sjl	hmm, so I'm making a new project that I want to test. I symlinked it into checkouts, but leiningen is still trying to find it online, and I haven't uploaded it yet
19:09	amalloy	actualyl i have no idea. the regex looks fine, and the code for handling it looks fine too
19:09	sjl	do I need to do something special to make it look in checkouts/ for dependencies?
19:09	TimMc	sjl: I think it will still try to download it, even if it isn't going to be on the classpath.
19:09	TimMc	Not going to guarantee that, though.
19:09	sjl	hmm
19:09	technomancy	slj: do a lein install in the dependency
19:09	TimMc	Or rather, it is probably shadowed on the classpath.
19:10	sjl	so how do I develop the initial version?
19:10	technomancy	the source will still be preferred
19:11	sjl	technomancy: ah, ok, thanks
19:13	qbg	My persistent memory tables for core.logic are statistically significantly faster than rels by a hair. (thanks to criterium for benchmarking)
19:21	sjl	ibdknox: is there any way to use Noir and cheshire at the same time? Right now it seems Noir requires clj-json which requires Jackson 1.5 and Cheshire requires Jackson 1.9.5...
19:22	ibdknox	sjl: 1.3.0-alpha10 is stable despite the name and uses cheshire
19:22	sjl	ibdknox: Hmm... how would I support people running earlier versions of Noir?
19:24	TimMc	sjl: You may be able to pin the version of Jackson to 1.9.5
19:25	TimMc	which should be backwards compatible, since it is the same major version
19:26	ibdknox	I think I tried to do that and it failed epically
19:26	ibdknox	I may have just been doing it wrong though
19:27	technomancy	(ns clj-json.core) (def encode cheshire.core/encode) (def decode cheshire.core/decode)
19:27	ibdknox	actually, I think I just put them in the same project. I didn't force the jackson version
19:29	johnmn3	evenin'
19:53	weavejester	technomancy: Should we talk this over in IRC rather then in the GitHub issues?
19:54	technomancy	works for me =)
19:54	weavejester	technomancy: ring-server depends on Ring 1.0.2, so the beta version of Hiccup 1.0 shouldn't be in your deps
19:55	technomancy	weavejester: oh, super
19:55	technomancy	weavejester: I guess it only would have been a problem if we moved run-server into ring-devel
19:56	weavejester	technomancy: I don't think it would have been a problem even then…
19:56	weavejester	technomancy: Is ring-server not working for you?
19:57	technomancy	weavejester: I played around briefly with moving it into ring-devel before I heard about ring-server, and it broke in my project that was using old-hiccup. I haven't tried ring-server
19:57	weavejester	technomancy: Oh, you were using the master branch of Ring?
19:58	technomancy	yeah
19:58	weavejester	technomancy: That's a 1.1 snapshot. I have a "1.0" branch for continuing version 1.0 stuff (patches etc.)
19:58	technomancy	gotcha; cool
19:58	weavejester	technomancy: Mark's always been big on trying stuff as external libraries first, so although ring-server and lein-ring might end up in Ring (maybe 1.2), they'll be separate libraries first.
19:59	weavejester	technomancy: Can a plugin add a dependency to the project map before running eval-in-project?
19:59	weavejester	technomancy: i.e. inject a dependency
19:59	technomancy	weavejester: yeah, my WIP branch does that
20:00	weavejester	technomancy: Awesome. Okay so this weekend I'll finish off ring-server. It's nearly done anyway.
20:00	technomancy	weavejester: excellent
20:00	weavejester	technomancy: And then it's just a case of injecting the dep and running eval-in-project.
20:01	technomancy	weavejester: plus a couple other changes to avoid using :library-path
20:01	technomancy	but yeah, that's all hacked out
20:01	weavejester	technomancy: Do you have code to that effect?
20:01	technomancy	yeah, it's all together on the WIP branch
20:01	technomancy	for the record, lein2 is waaaay faster to uberwar than lein1
20:02	weavejester	technomancy: Ah, awesome. I'll take a look when it's not 1am :)
20:02	technomancy	heh; sure =)
20:02	weavejester	technomancy: BTW, do you work for Heroku these days?
20:02	technomancy	the war/uberwar stuff works with my existing pull request + the data.xml one
20:02	technomancy	yeah
20:02	technomancy	got to spend the morning moving clojars off sha1 for passwords
20:02	weavejester	technomancy: I almost ran into Mark in London. He's at QCon, right?
20:03	technomancy	due to the npm breach
20:03	technomancy	oh yeah, I think so
20:03	technomancy	too bad you missed him
20:03	technomancy	I can't make it to euroclojure this year but am looking forward to next time
20:04	weavejester	technomancy: I was just about to say hi when Rich's talk started, so I figured I'd wait until after, but he snuck out before the second talk
20:05	weavejester	technomancy: Hopefully I can catch him before he heads back and buy him a drink :)
20:08	callen	technomancy: wait, people actually use sha1 for passwords? :(
20:08	callen	who...why? :(
20:08	technomancy	callen: =(
20:08	technomancy	callen: it's amazing that clojars has survived for so long without a maintainer
20:09	technomancy	https://github.com/ato/clojars-web/graphs/impact <- last nontrivial work: nov 2011
20:09	technomancy	2010 rather
20:10	devn	:(
20:12	technomancy	anyway, as soon as I hear back from him I'm going to deploy the bcrypt branch
20:12	technomancy	...and possibly wipe out the existing sha1 hashes
20:20	weavejester	technomancy: Wouldn't that wipe out everyone's passwords?
20:21	technomancy	yes
20:21	technomancy	but you don't need your password to do anything except change your pubkey and add people to groups
20:21	technomancy	because everything else goes through SSH
20:24	weavejester	technomancy: So how do I get into my account if the password is wiped?
20:24	technomancy	there's a password reset
20:24	TimMc	technomancy: Would you consider a migration period? Logins match against SHA1 and generate new bcrypt.
20:25	technomancy	we have to wipe the old hashes anyway because not everyone still uses clojars
20:25	TimMc	Wait... this isn't just for login passwords?
20:25	technomancy	this is just for the web ui
20:25	technomancy	oh crap
20:26	technomancy	the forgot password functionality emails it in cleartext
20:26	weavejester	The way I've seen migrations done is to add a "password type" column, and mark all the existing passwords as SHA1
20:26	TimMc	technomancy: nice
20:26	TimMc	So you can do the migration!
20:26	gfredericks	technomancy: email an immediately-expired password?
20:26	weavejester	Then when a user logs in, convert the password to BCrypt and change the "password type"
20:27	sritchie	any core.logic experts around?
20:27	weavejester	technomancy: How can the forgot password mail it in cleartext if it's SHA1-hashed?
20:27	gfredericks	probably a new password
20:27	technomancy	weavejester: yeah, it's a new one
20:27	technomancy	still horrible
20:27	TimMc	oh, OK
20:27	weavejester	Oh right
20:27	gfredericks	technomancy: ROT13!
20:28	technomancy	aw yeah
20:28	weavejester	Horrible why? Because there's no time limit?
20:28	weavejester	With plaintext email you have to send something that can potentially be subverted.
20:29	technomancy	hmm... I was thinking it's horrible because it doesn't force you to change it once you log in
20:29	weavejester	Ohh
20:29	technomancy	but the fact that it's random is probably enough to convince you to change it =)
20:29	TimMc	weavejester: Best is a one-time login URL that allows password setting.
20:29	gfredericks	technomancy: nah, you just use gmail search whenever you need to enter your password
20:29	TimMc	technomancy: I'd be more convinced to change it if it were "password123".
20:29	weavejester	TimMc: With a time limit on the login
20:29	TimMc	weavejester: right
20:30	weavejester	I had a neat scheme for sending emails over HTTPS...
20:30	gfredericks	diffie-hellman?
20:31	weavejester	I need to write it up at some point, even if plaintext email has too much momentum, it's an interesting theoretical exercise.
20:31	technomancy	I guess sending a plaintext fresh password is OK if you make it clear it needs to be changed once they log in
20:31	technomancy	it's not pratically any different from a reset token
20:32	romanandreg	has anyone had come with this issue on Clojurescript's `cljs.closure/build` function: java.lang.AssertionError: Assert failed: Can't recur here\|frame
20:32	romanandreg	?
20:33	romanandreg	trying to figure out why is happening
20:34	TimMc	Ugh, I've seen that. I think it's a compiler bug?
20:34	romanandreg	do you know what might cause it?
20:35	TimMc	Nah, it's one of the reasons I gave up on writing try-cljs.com
20:35	TimMc	That was a bit ago, though!
20:37	romanandreg	hehe
20:38	callen	technomancy: so you moved it to bcrypt or some equivalent...riiight?
20:38	technomancy	callen: yeah, just waiting to hear back from ato before I deploy
20:39	technomancy	https://mobile.twitter.com/technomancy/status/177863341371424768
20:39	callen	technomancy: thank you, I've been trying to kill the "salts are fine" fallacy for several years now.
20:40	callen	or more specifically, fast hash algo + salt
20:40	technomancy	it's pretty cool to just tweak the work factor and watch the slowdown double
20:40	callen	technomancy: >:password "fuuuuuu" \n lol
20:40	clojurebot	Excuse me?
20:41	TimMc	Good stuff.
20:53	technomancy	ok, it turns out rehashing on successful login is easy
20:53	callen	technomancy: I would hope so. you've already got the data, just re-encrypt with bcrypt and stash it.
20:54	callen	technomancy: who is maintaining clojars?
20:54	technomancy	nobody
20:54	technomancy	well
20:54	technomancy	I am, now.
20:54	callen	do you have control over the domainz/
20:54	callen	domain?
20:54	technomancy	the original author has agreed to let me move it to heroku once I port it to postgres and s3
20:54	technomancy	but that's still a ways away
20:55	callen	I always forget you're a heroku employee.
20:55	technomancy	I've got Big Plans for clojars
20:56	alex_baranosky	technomancy, do you have a list of those plans anywhere?
20:57	technomancy	alex_baranosky: the tl;dr: http://p.hagelb.org/clojars-todo.html
20:57	technomancy	I plan on drafting up a more concrete proposal soon
20:58	technomancy	once we have HTTP deploy it will be a lot easier to hack on
20:58	alex_baranosky	technomancy, looks great.
20:59	johnmn3	technomancy looks great?
20:59	alex_baranosky	johnmn3, his list of changes to clojars that he posted
20:59	technomancy	heh
20:59	johnmn3	oh.. right...
21:00	johnmn3	sorry, I just came in on the tail end of that conversation. :)
21:00	xeqi	+1 for browse web interface / older versions
21:00	xeqi	that was gonna be one of the first things I looked at
21:00	johnmn3	I'm pretty stoked about the api
21:01	johnmn3	hoping to see it used in clooj in the future
21:01	technomancy	which api?
21:01	technomancy	oh, leiningen-core?
21:01	johnmn3	yea
21:02	technomancy	hopefully!
21:03	johnmn3	Thing about clooj though, the source is straight up java written in clojure. I was thinking trying to move some of clooj to seesaw.
21:08	johnmn3	so I'm making a program that helps analysts operate a web interface that they use to process research items. and I'm thinking about what kind of licensing to use when selling the program to their organization.. per seat licensing or per resarch item.
21:09	johnmn3	essentially, the tool takes a ten minute per item processing time and brings it around 4 minutes.
21:10	johnmn3	So it more than doubles productivity, so I'd like to lean toward charging per item.
21:14	johnmn3	anyone have any experience with those kinds of contracts?
21:30	amalloy	that doesn't sound like a #clojure question at all. ask in #what-do-i-charge-for-software or something?
21:30	qbg	They're called "lawyers"
21:30	technomancy	yeah, this is a hippie channel; none of this money stuff.
21:31	qbg	Tort law is hard, get someone who is good at it.
21:32	TimMc	technomancy: I wonder if it's kosher to bcrypt-hash the SHA1 hashes.
21:32	gfredericks	TimMc: I bet it is
21:32	TimMc	I know that double-encrypting can actually make encryption weaker in some circumstances, but I don't know if that applies to hashes.
21:33	technomancy	TimMc: I think with the rehash-on-login we can just hold off and wipe the sha hashes in a couple weeks
21:34	TimMc	OK, great.
21:36	qbg	dnolen: Persistent memory tables for core.logic are coming along great
21:37	technomancy	johnmn3: kidding btw; I just doubt folks in here have much useful experience with that.
21:38	dnolen	qbg: whoa!
21:38	dnolen	qbg: awesome
21:38	qbg	query performance is a hair faster than rels for the single index case
21:39	qbg	(as per criterium)
21:40	qbg	Once try to improve on the update functions and maybe write a few more tests, it might be ready for an enhancement on JIRA
21:40	dnolen	qbg: excellent
21:40	qbg	I got a >100x speed up during dev by writing a macro :)
21:41	dnolen	heh
21:41	qbg	They can also be faster than rels in the multiple index case because I do more aggressive query optimization
21:41	qbg	Though it does introduce an overhead
21:42	qbg	Before I special cased the single index case, it was ~1.3x slower than rels
21:43	gtuckerkellogg	i bought the PDF rough cut of the forthcoming O'Reilly "Clojure Programming" book
21:43	dhconnelly	how is it?
21:43	dhconnelly	i just preordered the print book
21:43	gtuckerkellogg	TERRIFIC
21:44	gtuckerkellogg	damn it is great
21:44	dhconnelly	awesome
21:44	gtuckerkellogg	i became aware of it because there was a github repo with the code samples, and it pointed me to the book
21:44	gtuckerkellogg	but now that i have the book, i can't find the github repo
21:44	gtuckerkellogg	D'oh!
21:45	dhconnelly	they have a twitter for the book
21:45	dhconnelly	if you haven't seen it
21:45	technomancy	go cemerick =D
21:47	y3di	guys im having trouble understanding this snippet of code from http://eddology.com/post/14592579289/busy-persons-clojure
21:47	y3di	(if-let [prev-count (results score)] (assoc results score (inc prev-count)) (assoc results score 1)))
21:47	cemerick	gtuckerkellogg: sample projects will be here once I get them cleaned up: https://github.com/clojurebook
21:48	cemerick	gtuckerkellogg: follow @ClojureBook or subscribe to the ML on http://clojurebook.com to be notified when it lands
21:48	y3di	specifically, [prev-count (results score)] im not sure I underestand how prev-count works
21:48	gtuckerkellogg	best IRC session ever
21:48	johnmn3	technomancy: okay, how about the eclipse license? What kinds of constraints to I have from a business perspective? If I deploy a gui, do I have to provide my source code?
21:48	cemerick	gtuckerkellogg: and, thanks for the kind words :-) Tell your friends. ;-)
21:49	gtuckerkellogg	cemerick, it's a great read. I'll be notified of its landing when the hard copy arrives on my doorstep :)
21:49	TimMc	cemerick: What audiences does it target?
21:50	tmciver	y3di: [prev-count (results score)] is a binding form; results is a function call with arg score. The result of that function call are bound to the var prev-count.
21:50	cemerick	TimMc: The relevant part of the preface is excerpted at the top of http://clojurebook.com :-)
21:50	TimMc	thanks
21:50	tmciver	y3di: see the docs for let.
21:50	cemerick	tl;dr: engaged Java devs + ruby/python devs
21:50	TimMc	interesting
21:51	cemerick	a.k.a. introduction to Clojure with no bullshit and high expectations
21:52	cemerick	Christophe put some killer generified maze generation and game of life impls in there.
21:52	brehaut_	it happens to have the best enlive introduction around
21:52	brehaut_	(not surprising)
21:52	cemerick	(just an example)
21:52	gtuckerkellogg	"introduction to Clojure with no bullshit and high expectations" should be the official subtitle
21:53	gtuckerkellogg	No need cemerick. I'll shill
21:54	cemerick	I try to avoid it, esp. around here. People are subjected to my yammerings enough as it ls. :-)
21:54	brehaut_	cemerick: s/yammering/fondness for rhetoric/ ;)
21:56	cemerick	brehaut_: hah; I think it was hiredman that said something like "oh, I saw a reply from cemerick, but knew I wouldn't be able to get through the wall of text" :-P
21:56	brehaut_	lol
21:57	cemerick	"let me add my 2¢, but first, I will thrill you with 'Ode to the Closing Parenthesis', in 7 parts"
21:58	brehaut_	haha
21:58	gtuckerkellogg	haha
21:58	qbg	dnolen: It also looks like if Rels are ported to persistent memory tables, a few outstanding JIRA issues could also be closed.
22:06	dnolen	qbg: excellent
22:30	qbg	b
22:30	hugod	qbg: written by a brit...
22:31	qbg	b
22:32	qbg	'optimisations' just looks weird to this American
22:32	qbg	But strangely, labour does not
22:32	brehaut	qbg: aluminium or aluminum ?
22:33	technomancy	'merikins; what do they know about spelling anyway
22:33	qbg	They both look weird :)
22:34	qbg	Other than that, Criterium is very excellent
22:35	amalloy	fwiw i prefer optimisations to labour
22:35	amalloy	but i'm pretty tolerant of british spellings. i read a lot of their books
22:35	hugod	qbg: glad you are finding a use for it :)
22:36	qbg	If I was writing it, the line would be "Warming up the JIT", but it isn't a deal breaker at all :)
22:36	brehaut	about the only american spelling that actually bugs me these days is 'mom'
22:37	qbg	What is the British version of mom again?
22:37	brehaut	mum
22:38	technomancy	amalloy: they do have some good ones, don't they
22:38	technomancy	mum is fine; mummy still weirds me out a bit
22:38	qbg	Cookie vs biscuit is still something I can't fully comprehend
22:38	jodaro	crisps
22:39	brehaut	technomancy: are we still talking the parential relationship, or the desiccated cloth wrapped corpse?
22:39	amalloy	why can't it be both?
22:39	qbg	Be nice to your mother!
22:39	qbg	:p
22:42	hugod	I occasionally catch my self using gas, trunk, or hood, but not very often
22:43	qbg	b
22:43	gfredericks	c
22:43	qbg	Why can't the cursor go where I'm looking? :(
22:44	gfredericks	qbg: you should use longer passwords
22:45	qbg	Don't edit cross VM
22:45	qbg	More specifically, don't use Emacs cross VMs
22:45	gfredericks	qbg: two cursors blinking at the same time?
22:45	qbg	Yep
22:46	gfredericks	shell into the vm!
22:46	qbg	I forget why I'm using IRC from Windows, when I could be using it from Linux instead
22:51	brehaut	time for the weekend. later!
22:52	xandrews	is it possible to create an object if I am looking it up at run-time? for example (new (lookup-class :foo))
22:52	qbg	Yes, using reflection
22:53	qbg	For example, (.newInstance (Class/forName "java.util.ArrayList"))
22:54	qbg	For ctor args you'll have to lookup the appropriate ctor first
22:54	xandrews	ah, didn't know about .newInstance
22:55	xandrews	that doesn't seem to work for records though
22:55	qbg	.newInstance is for zero arg constructors only
22:59	qbg	(.newInstance (.getConstructor (Class/forName "java.util.ArrayList") (into-array Class [java.util.Collection])) (into-array [[1 2 3]]))
22:59	qbg	(java.util.ArrayList. [1 2 3]) is so much easier :)
23:00	xandrews	yeah... I could use multimethods, but the body of the method would just be repeated for each type
23:00	qbg	1.3 defines ctor functions for records
23:01	qbg	(defrecord Foo [a b c]) defines ->Foo
23:01	qbg	It also defines map->Foo
23:02	qbg	Maybe you'll want to use those instead?
23:03	xandrews	ohh map->Foo is nice... not sure it helps in my case... I suppose i could store a reference to map->Foo instead of Foo itself
23:03	qbg	You could reflect on the Clojure namespace
23:04	qbg	(resolve (symbol (str "map->" "Foo")))
23:04	qbg	or ns-resolve
23:05	xandrews	cool. so i have a couple of decent options now. thanks!
23:05	xandrews	For some reason .getConstructor is not defined for the record
23:06	qbg	Are you calling it on the class?
23:07	xandrews	yeah. I also tried using class/forName like you did above
23:07	qbg	(.getConstructor Foo (into-array Class [Object Object Object])) works for me
23:10	qbg	Are you trying this at a REPL? Did you verify your classes are really classes?
23:10	xandrews	oh my bad.. I guess the argument to getConstructor is the array of arguments?
23:10	qbg	Yes
23:10	qbg	It is varargs
23:10	xandrews	ok. that was my problem
23:10	xandrews	sorry. not a java guy
23:10	qbg	varargs are nasty for interop
23:12	romanandreg	has anyone has had an issue with cljs/gclosure that the cljs.core.fn function is not defined?
23:14	romanandreg	I'm doing development mode, and when I do require in an script tag of the webpage I get this failures https://skitch.com/romanandreg2/8etp1/cljs-issue-1
23:14	romanandreg	super annoying
23:14	romanandreg	also when doing a goog.require('library') I get an error from FF
23:15	romanandreg	https://skitch.com/romanandreg2/8etp5/cljs-issue-2
23:24	dnolen	hmm lein2 foo doesn't seem to work
23:26	technomancy	dnolen: is it the NPE when you run outside a project?
23:26	technomancy	or something else I should fix before preview2?
23:26	dnolen	technomancy: sorry I meant, lein2 new foo doesn't work
23:27	technomancy	what's wrong?
23:28	dnolen	Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NullPointerException
23:28	dnolen	at leiningen.core.classpath$resolve_dependencies.doInvoke(classpath.clj:88)
23:28	dnolen
23:28	technomancy	yeah, looks to be the same bug
23:28	technomancy	fixed on master, but I'll get preview2 out asap
23:28	dnolen	k, thx
23:29	dnolen	has anyone got the datomic appliance to actually work?
23:39	devn	dnolen: not i...yet
23:40	devn	dnolen: where are you stuck at?
23:40	dnolen	devn: just doesn't work
23:41	devn	that's vague. what's broken?
23:41	devn	like you go to X, and Y never happens...
23:41	dnolen	devn: error starting up the image
23:41	devn	on AWS?
23:41	technomancy	dnolen: "lein2 upgrade" should take care of you
23:41	dnolen	devn: no on my machine via virtual box
23:41	dnolen	technomancy: thx
23:41	devn	OSX?
23:42	dnolen	devn: yes
23:42	devn	dnolen: hm -- ill give it a try
23:43	devn	dnolen: i finally got to watch the minikanren/ckanren talk from clojure/conj this past year
23:43	dnolen	devn: whadya think?
23:43	devn	I laughed out loud, man.
23:43	devn	fantastic talk. incredibly interesting ideas.
23:44	devn	and good people 'taboot 'taboot. :)
23:44	devn	kibitz is the beginning of the promise that has been core.logic, for me anyway
23:44	devn	and then ambrose tweeting about typed clojure
23:45	devn	this community is wonderful.
23:47	dnolen	devn: haha, yeah the Friedman & Byrd talk is hilarious
23:48	uvtc	Is there a function naming convention regarding leading or trailing hyphens? I see that I'm supposed to use "-main" for the name of my project's "main" fn.
23:48	dnolen	technomancy: thx, seems fixed now!
23:49	dnolen	devn: also agree that kibit looks neat
23:49	technomancy	great
23:51	technomancy	uvtc: it means it's a java method
23:51	technomancy	or it's traditionally used in java method names anyway
23:51	uvtc	technomancy, !
23:53	uvtc	technomancy, when I write a "main-" fn in my core.clj, I also put a (:gen-class :main true) at the top...
23:54	uvtc	(in the `ns` call)
23:54	devn	dnolen: it's thanks to you that kibit exists
23:54	technomancy	uvtc: yes, that's necessary to make an uberjar work
23:54	technomancy	(but not to use "lein run")
23:54	uvtc	technomancy, Right -- I've seen that firsthand.
23:54	devn	dnolen: i have grand plans for unifying all of the exploratory tools that have come to exist in clojure
23:54	devn	dnolen: with some new ones for fun
23:54	devn	pardon me, fn
23:55	uvtc	technomancy, I'm trying to understand what you mean by "it's a java fn"...
23:55	uvtc	technomancy, sorry -- java method.
23:56	dnolen	devn: thx! but really thanks to lots of people!
23:56	uvtc	In what other case would you write a method with a trailing hyphen?
23:57	devn	dnolen: yeah, I don't mean to give all the credit, but it is a fact that without you core.logic wouldn't exist
23:57	devn	so...thanks, to you and everyone else
23:58	uvtc	Searching for "hyphen" at clojure.org isn't turning anything up for me.
23:59	technomancy	uvtc: by default, gen-class finds all defns with a - prefix to turn them into methods
23:59	technomancy	(this can be changed)