#clojure – 2012-02-12

2012-02-12

00:30	jblomo	is there a lein plugin for running ant / build.xml tasks?
00:45	clj_newb	is there a way to tell clojure to not import _anything_ (not even core)? I want to build a DSL within clojure; and I don't want it getting conflicts w/ core functions all over the place
00:48	jblomo	clj_newb: I think you may be able to use (:refer-clojure :only ())
00:55	clj_newb	jblomo: interesting fix; thanks
00:55	JohnnyL	have any of you gotten clojure to run processes in parallel on a multicore configuration?
00:56	clj_newb	clojure; by default, runs functions sent to agents, in separate threads, iirc
02:10	amalloy	amro, muhoo: "for isn't a recur target" glosses over some stuff that might be important
02:11	amalloy	for expands to a lazy-seq and some function calls: you can't usefully recur to it, but you can't recur around/through it either, because it "gets in the way of" the actual recur target it's inside of
02:12	amalloy	whether for is a recur target isn't really relevant for muhoo's code, because loop is a recur target and you always recur to the inner-most "closest" point
03:35	clj_newb	what is the best way to get a java Graphics2D to output svg/vector graphics?
03:39	tylergillies	i have a function that returns a vector and i want to pass the return value from that function to a different function that takes multiple arguments, but the second function is erroing telling me i only passed it one argument
03:40	emezeske	tylergillies: I think you might want 'apply'
03:40	emezeske	,(apply + [1 2 3 4 5])
03:40	clojurebot	15
03:41	emezeske	,(+ [1 2 3 4 5])
03:41	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException>
03:41	tylergillies	emezeske: thnx
03:42	tylergillies	woot that worked
03:42	emezeske	:)
03:43	tylergillies	messing around with java.security http://cl.ly/2Y3W1o1H2w0A163u2H1w
03:46	emezeske	tylergillies: cool stuff
03:46	emezeske	tylergillies: If you're gonna do a lot of java interop, you might like the thrush macro ->
03:47	tylergillies	emezeske: where can i read up on that?
03:47	tylergillies	with all the java libraries available why wouldn't everyone do tons of java interop?
03:48	emezeske	tylergillies: the first answer on this thread is useful
03:48	emezeske	http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4579226/what-does-do-in-clojure
03:48	tylergillies	emezeske: thnx
03:49	emezeske	tylergillies: an example: http://pastebin.com/sCWJ9sV2
03:49	emezeske	tylergillies: I didn't run that, so it might have bugs :P
03:49	tylergillies	oh
03:49	tylergillies	i know what that macro is
03:49	tylergillies	just forgot what it was called
03:49	emezeske	I routinely forget what it's called.
03:53	tylergillies	is there a way to import multiple classes without calling :import for each one?
04:48	fliebel	Is there any support for complex number in clojure/libraries? I only found something in old contrib that is both unfinished and outdated.
04:51	romanandreg	quick question: do you know if you can do partial parsing of json using clojure.json?
04:51	romanandreg	parsing json without having all the string to parse available?
04:54	fliebel	romanandreg: You mean like lazy xml, but for json? I don't think so, but it should be possible.
04:55	romanandreg	fliebel: yes, exactly that, parse as data is available
04:55	romanandreg	but don't halt if there is not enough input
04:56	fliebel	romanandreg: That would only work if you interpret JSON arrays as lazy sequences.
04:59	romanandreg	fliebel: thank you :-)
05:02	talios	'lo miclorb_
05:22	fliebel	Ok, so generic functions are in new contrib, but complex numbers aren't
08:04	fliebel	What kind of latencies should I expect with Avout?
08:05	fliebel	The default ticktime of 2000ms seems to indicate it's not really instantaneous.
08:36	ldh	I'm trying to play with irepl via "lein trampoline irepl", but am getting "java.lang.IncompatibleClassChangeError: Found class jline.Terminal, but interface was expected" (https://gist.github.com/1808500). any suggestions?
08:49	fliebel	ldh: Some kind of version mismatch?
08:51	ldh	fliebel: i've had trouble with jline in the past (OS X here), solved by making sure only one jline jar is on the classpath (in /Library/Java/Extensions) IIRC
08:51	ldh	fliebel: not sure if/how that applies here
09:26	chawks	Hi everybody. I am trying to use Noir to create a form with several checkboxes, however when I select more than one check box, I only receive the last selection... any ideas?
11:34	apwalk	chawks: I've not done this with Noir, or clojure, but ensure that the html groups the checkboxes by specifying the same name, and makes them an array, e.g. name="choices[]"
11:56	chawks	Hi apwalk, that worked, thanks :)
12:22	muhoo	hey, holy crap. refs are pointers!
12:22	muhoo	i can write c in clojure :_)
12:24	muhoo	neat. thread-safe, concurrency-aware pointers.
12:35	gf3	c in clojure on the JVM
12:35	gf3	AMAZING
12:37	the-kenny	So, who wants to drive a Delorean Monster Truck? https://machinegestalt.posterous.com/if-programming-languages-were-cars
13:06	muhoo	i kind of suspected taht, when reading about structural sharing, i thought, hmm, sounds like pointers in c, but without the segfaults.
13:09	muhoo	the-kenny: that's fantastic. lol purple bat van
13:27	jjcomer	Does anyone know how I specify attributes (other than id and class) in hiccup?
13:29	Scriptor	jjcomer: just specify them in the map in the 2nd argument?
13:33	jjcomer	Scriptor: that worked!
13:33	jjcomer	thanks
13:33	Scriptor	no prob!
14:32	fliebel	How can I dispatch on a number in multimethods?
14:33	alex_baranosky	(fn [n] (if (= n 5) :five :othernums))
14:33	TimMc	fliebel: Dispatch in multimethods is all based on 'isa? -- read the docs on that function.
14:33	TimMc	It's not self-evident.
14:34	fliebel	TimMc: Right, so either all numbers need to have a common ancestor, or I need to derive them.
14:34	TimMc	fliebel: No, read the doc again.
14:34	TimMc	&(doc isa?)
14:34	lazybot	⇒ "([child parent] [h child parent]); Returns true if (= child parent), or child is directly or indirectly derived from parent, either via a Java type inheritance relationship or a relationship established via derive. h must be a hierarchy obtained from make-hierarchy,... https://refheap.com/paste/718
14:34	TimMc	very first clause
14:35	fliebel	"Returns true if (= child parent)"?
14:35	TimMc	yeah
14:35	TimMc	&(isa? 5 5)
14:35	lazybot	⇒ true
14:36	TimMc	&(isa? (class 5) Number)
14:36	lazybot	⇒ true
14:36	fliebel	&Numer
14:36	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: Numer in this context
14:36	fliebel	&Number
14:36	lazybot	⇒ java.lang.Number
14:36	fliebel	aha
14:37	TimMc	I didn't understand multimethods at all until I had that explained to me. :-)
14:37	fliebel	TimMc: I did understand that, I was just looking for what turned out to be called -- very logically in hindsight -- java.lang.Number.
14:38	fliebel	&(bases (class 1))
14:38	lazybot	⇒ (java.lang.Number java.lang.Comparable)
14:38	fliebel	Thanks though.
14:44	TimMc	Oh, hah! OK.
14:44	TimMc	fliebel: ##(ancestors (class 5))
14:44	lazybot	⇒ #{java.lang.Object java.io.Serializable java.lang.Comparable java.lang.Number}
14:45	TimMc	I thought you were trying to dispatch on a specific numeric value.
14:49	tmciver	TimMc: Really? But how does isa? help dispatch on a particular value?
14:49	tmciver	TimMc: I'm looking at the defproxy branch of the import stuff, by the way.
14:49	TimMc	&(isa? 5 5)
14:49	lazybot	⇒ true
14:50	tmciver	TimMc: But the dispatch function doesn't have to involve types, right? The dispatch function could have been (= 5 5), true?
14:51	TimMc	Ah, well, there are two components to the dispatch.
14:51	tmciver	TimMc: I admit, that would be a limited way to implement multi-methods on particular values, I think.
14:51	Frozenlock	Nooo! Y u no working! I restarted my machine and now I can't get clojure-jack-in to work. :(
14:52	TimMc	tmciver: You could dispatch on #(mod 4 %) and have multimethods for 0, 1, 2, and 3.
14:52	TimMc	It's pretty flexible.
14:52	Frozenlock	Does "error in process filter: Symbol's function definition is void: define-slime-contrib" rings a bell for someone?
14:53	tmciver	Frozenlock: I occasionally get an error like that - usually after I kill slime/swank and try to clojure-jack-in again. I just restart emacs.
14:54	Frozenlock	Hmmm.. I'll try that then, thanks
14:57	rhall	is there any real difference between these two forms of def: (defn func-name [args] (body ...)) and (defn func-name ([args] (body ...))) ?
14:57	rhall	I see them both used but I've never seen anyone discuss this
14:57	rhall	ie, parens wrapping the args
14:57	Raynes	The latter is typically used when there are multiple arities.
14:57	TimMc	rhall: The second allows you to define multiple arities.
14:57	rhall	ah, of course
14:58	Raynes	(defn foo ([x] (foo x 0)) ([x y] (+ x y)))
14:58	TimMc	You only get one docstring for the whole thing, of course.
14:58	Raynes	TimMc: Go away. I'm busy teaching.
14:58	alex_baranosky	usually you wouldn't use the second, unless you had multiple arity definitions
14:58	TimMc	haha
14:58	Raynes	;)
14:58	rhall	cool... thx
14:58	Raynes	alex_baranosky: I don't think he understood that yet, thanks. ;)
14:59	Raynes	In all seriousness, isn't it awesome that everybody fights to answer questions?
14:59	Raynes	Must be doing something right.
14:59	alex_baranosky	Raynes: I'm slow over here. too be programming
14:59	rhall	it's great the quick responses you get here
15:00	Raynes	TimMc: In other news, I'm biting the Enlive bullet. Working on moving RefHeap to it. Has been pretty painful so far, but I'm dealing.
15:00	Frozenlock	Grrr, I close Emacs for nothing, still not working :(
15:01	Raynes	Actually, it wasn't really enlive that was painful. For some reason my layout became different when it was expressed using the precise same HTML, only formatted well. Since hiccup doesn't format HTML, I never noticed. It was extremely frustrating figuring that one out.
15:01	Frozenlock	Is is possible my previously installed Slime (for CL) clashes with clojure's own slime?
15:03	TimMc	Raynes: Weird.
15:04	TimMc	Why are you moving to enlive, anyway?
15:04	Raynes	TimMc: Yeah, I went as far as to actually diff the HTML. :P
15:04	Raynes	Because it seems like a cleaner solution than the gobs and chunks of vectorcream that is RefHeap right now.
15:05	Raynes	I'm fine with hiccup, but messy is messy and RefHeap is getting messy.
15:05	TimMc	nod
15:05	TimMc	(Haven't seen the source, but I know the feeling.)
15:06	Raynes	The reason I gave you shit about tryclojure was just because it was pretty small.
15:06	Raynes	I probably would have agreed with you if it got bigger.
15:07	Raynes	I'm not sure if Enlive is the best solution here, but everybody seems to like it. I'm mostly worried about how much overhead this adds to people wanting to contribute to the sit.e
15:07	Raynes	site.*
15:08	Raynes	Enlive is pretty complicated, and I really like how easy 4Clojure is to contribute to. I'm not sure RefHeap will be able to serve a similar purpose under Enlive, but we'll see.
15:08	brehaut	Raynes: so you had some success?
15:09	Raynes	brehaut: Well, I've got one file converted after only 6 hours.
15:10	Raynes	But that was because of the formatting bu...
15:10	Raynes	Oh you weren't here.
15:10	Raynes	brehaut: Let me get you some logs.
15:10	brehaut	cheers
15:10	Raynes	brehaut: https://refheap.com/paste/719
15:14	brehaut	Raynes: re:contribution, i tihnk enlive is less intimidating if you have someone elses working code to get started with
15:14	TimMc	absolutely
15:15	Raynes	brehaut: Fair enough.
15:16	Raynes	brehaut: Now, go finish this conversion to enlive.
15:22	scottj	Frozenlock: yes. swank-clojure doesn't work with recent versions of slime.
15:23	Frozenlock	That's really unfortunate...
15:23	romain_p_	Hi, can someone help with the following korma error: http://pastie.org/3369281
15:24	Raynes	Frozenlock: That is mostly the fault of the SLIME developers though, for never releasing anything.
15:24	scottj	Frozenlock: I use slime from 2009-10-15 and it works fine with clojure and CL
15:24	Frozenlock	Yeah, simply installing it for CL was quite an epic adventure
15:25	Frozenlock	"Oh you took it from ELPA? No you should take it from X place instead"
15:28	Frozenlock	What is the command to download and install swank with leiningen?
15:30	compj	maybe: lein plugin install swank-plugin 1.4.0
15:30	compj	sorry
15:30	compj	swank-clojure
15:30	compj	not swank-plugin
15:31	puchacz	guys, for installing CL and all libraries you need (including slime) I suggest quicklisp
15:31	puchacz	it is much better than it used to be few years back
15:31	scottj	it didn't exist a few years back :)
15:31	puchacz	i.e. than before quicklisp arrived
15:31	scottj	oh that it :)
15:31	compj	does cvs slime work with clojure?
15:32	scottj	compj: no
15:32	osa1	how can I implement clojure.lang.IFn in my records with arbitrary number of parameters? I've tried (invoke [a & rest] ...) but doesn't seem working(I'm getting AbstractMethodError)
15:33	puchacz	oh, I see I would have to take a week holiday at least if I wanted to evaluate clojure..... slime does not work, ouch
15:33	pmooser	Anyone using a current version of clojure-mode ? I'm getting errors because it is referencing a tramp-related function that isn't defined in slime.
15:33	scottj	puchacz: slime works, just not cvs version
15:33	puchacz	ah, ok
15:33	pmooser	Specifically, 'slime-tramp-local-filename'
15:34	TimMc	osa1: Well, you're going to have to implement all 22 overloads of invoke.
15:34	scottj	pmooser: ;;; clojure mode has no business messing up slime for CL
15:34	scottj	(remove-hook 'slime-connected-hook 'clojure-slime-remote-file-name-hook)
15:34	osa1	TimMc: whoa!
15:34	TimMc	Are you sure you're up for that? :-)
15:34	osa1	TimMc: not if you're sure it's the only way
15:35	TimMc	It's not.
15:35	osa1	TimMc: maybe I can write a macro to do that for me
15:35	osa1	TimMc: oh, what are other ways then?
15:35	TimMc	AFn is a helpful adapter, but you're not going to be able to use it in defrecord, deftype, or reify since it is a concrete (albeit abstract) class.
15:36	TimMc	Your best bet is proxy.
15:36	pmooser	scottj - you're awesome. Things like this seem to happen a lot.
15:36	TimMc	osa1: The larger question is... are you sure this is what you really want to do in the first place?
15:36	pmooser	It doesn't help of course that I can't use the 'standard' ways of setting this stuff up (jack-in), so I run into these issues often.
15:36	scottj	pmooser: just try not to update stuff if it's working :)
15:37	pmooser	scott, I was trying to upgrade to swank-1.4.0 so I could give CDT a try, and an update of clojure-mode seemed to be required.
15:37	osa1	TimMc: actually I'm not. I just want to know if there's a way to do that. I'm in the learning phase.
15:37	scottj	pmooser: I recommend ritz
15:37	TimMc	osa1: You;d have to have a pretty compelling reason to do it.
15:38	Frozenlock	Ah damnit! I broke everything!
15:38	pmooser	scottj: I've been looking at it … it's never been clear to me exactly what state it is in.
15:38	Frozenlock	Time to delete all and start over.
15:38	pmooser	For me to use it I have to figure out how to launch the ritz swank thread from within my app (again, I can't use lein or cake or whatever),
15:38	pmooser	but I looked at the lein plugin for ritz earlier and it didn't look that hard.
15:39	TimMc	scottj: I took me sooooo long to learn not to upgrade things compulsively.
15:40	scottj	TimMc: I'm getting better at that. I love ubuntu LTS but will probably go to debian stable next time since 3 years is more upgrading than I like :)
15:40	TimMc	yep
15:40	pmooser	scottj: Do you find that ritz works better thank swank-clojure in general?
15:41	scottj	pmooser: I haven't done this but if your emacs configs including slime were in git then you could create a branch called trying-out-cdt and mostly get back if it didn't work
15:41	Raynes	scottj: Next LTS will be 5 years.
15:41	TimMc	Raynes: Now, if only they actually supported it...
15:41	scottj	Raynes: ahh, mark must want to keep me :)
15:41	pmooser	scottj: Sure, they are - I was just interested in not having to downgrade my clojure-mode.el to the previous version if possible, and you kindly helped me make the necessary config changes.
15:42	scottj	pmooser: ritz fixes several annoying things like it will show you line numbers of errors for things evaluated in the repl
15:42	Raynes	TimMc: Ubuntu is an ill-conceived weak-ass piece of shit anyway, so...
15:42	TimMc	heh, do you have that memorized by now?
15:42	Raynes	No, I actually had to google this time.
15:42	Raynes	Google "timmc browserid piece of shit"
15:42	Raynes	First hit.
15:43	TimMc	niiice
15:43	Raynes	$google timmc browserid piece of shit
15:43	scottj	pmooser: I like the debugger stepping UI in ritz. I haven't used it a lot though
15:43	Raynes	$kill
15:43	lazybot	KILL IT WITH FIRE!
15:43	Raynes	Hm.
15:43	TimMc	haha
15:43	Raynes	He refuses to google you.
15:44	pmooser	scottj: I'll see if I can integrate it with my setup at work. It's going to be interesting to see how it reacts to ritz's need to spawn and extra JVM process.
15:45	scottj	pmooser: btw ritz uses a different version of slime than swank-clojure :)
15:45	pmooser	My development setup is (unfortunately) not exactly typical, in that I run my own swank-server listening on a thread in an app that is mostly written in Java.
15:45	pmooser	scottj: Yeah, I'll have to carefully archive everything off before I start playing with ritz too much.
15:45	pmooser	All my configs are in git, but all of my ~/.emacs.d stuff is not.
15:48	pmooser	scottj: Thanks again for all the help. I really appreciate it.
15:48	pmooser	Hope to meet some of you folks at clojure/west!
16:12	Frozenlock	1 required artifact is missing.
16:12	Frozenlock	for artifact:
16:12	Frozenlock	org.apache.maven:super-pom:jar:2.0
16:13	Frozenlock	I was thinking that by starting everything over it would work... :(
16:16	muhoo	clojure.contrib. batteries not included anymore :-)
16:19	muhoo	also, google is fun: http://www.google.com/search?q=browser+piece+of+shit&btnG=Search
16:28	muhoo	ok, fail. pomegranate is installed, but this dies:
16:28	clojurebot	Roger.
16:28	muhoo	(add-dependencies "org.clojure/data.json" "0.1.2")
16:28	muhoo	IllegalArgumentException No value supplied for key: 0.1.2 clojure.lang.PersistentHashMap.createWithCheck (PersistentHashMap.java:89)
16:29	muhoo	also, this fails too: (add-dependencies 'org.clojure/data.json "0.1.2")
16:29	Bronsa	i think it should be (add-dependencies [['org.clojure/data.json "0.1.2"]])
16:30	muhoo	ah, thanks
16:30	muhoo	also, i notice that noir doesn't use the official clojure data.json
16:30	muhoo	it uses clj-json. why?
16:30	nollidj	i'm looking at the clojure source. does anyone know what the &form and &env mean in (fn defn [&form &env name & fdecl] ...)?
16:30	Frozenlock	Yesss! It works! Now nobody move! Don't even breathe!
16:31	muhoo	Frozenlock: that's how i feel about most of the stuff i write :-/
16:32	Frozenlock	Awww you broke it!
16:32	muhoo	hopefully, once i start writing production stuff in clojure, i won't feel like it's so fragile.
16:32	Frozenlock	:P
16:32	Bronsa	nollidj: defn is a macro
16:32	Bronsa	in a macro the first two args are &form and &env
16:32	nollidj	ah, ok. thanks
16:32	Bronsa	those are passed by the compiler i think
16:33	nollidj	i was wondering where they came from. defn is defined by a literal def instead of defmacro, so i guess that's why it's there
16:33	Bronsa	yeah
16:33	Bronsa	if you look a t defmacro source you can see
16:33	Bronsa	add-implicit-args (fn [fd]
16:33	Bronsa	(let [args (first fd)]
16:33	Bronsa	(cons (vec (cons '&form (cons '&env args))) (next fd))))
16:34	nollidj	ah, i see
16:36	muhoo	be afraid. a moron (me) has discovered the threading macro.
16:36	muhoo	(-> 'clojure.data.json ns-publics keys)
16:36	muhoo	muaahahaha
16:49	muhoo	i need a cigarette now (-> "http://localhost/testserver/somebs?stuff=whatevs" slurp read-json pprint-json)
16:50	Raynes	Hahaha
16:50	Raynes	I've got an electronic one lying around here somewhere...
16:51	muhoo	it's like unix pipes, but in a real language (not bash)
16:51	brehaut	muhoo: modulo multiprocess stuff
16:51	Raynes	brehaut: Conch!
16:52	brehaut	Raynes: or threads and LinkedBlockingQueues ;)
16:52	muhoo	and tons of other stuff, including whatever java libs exist
16:52	muhoo	yep, well consider this one happy newb.
16:52	brehaut	im tempted to try to write a terrible facsimile of erlangs processors / mailboxes using PriorityBlockingQueue and core.match for fun
17:04	Raynes	TimMc: http://c.images.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/14493242.jpg
17:05	rahcola	am I right to say, that there is no equivalent for letrec in clojure?
17:06	bbloom	letfn ?
17:08	rahcola	what if you have a function and a other value, mutually dependand?
17:08	rahcola	like you have a function f that you map over a sequence s
17:09	rahcola	but f accesses s
17:11	rads	in that case couldn't you just put s before f and all would be good? I think I'm missing something here
17:11	raek	rahcola: lazy-seqs can be mutually recursive
17:12	bbloom	rahcola: pretend you have letrec, paste the form you're trying to achieve
17:12	lpetit	(let [s (some-seq), f (fn […] … s …), v (map f s)] …)
17:12	raek	(declare foo-seq bar-seq) (defn foo-seq [] (lazy-seq (cons 0 (bar-seq)))) (defn bar-seq [] (lazy-seq (cons 1 (foo-seq))))
17:13	muhoo	how would i do this with destructuring, to get two keys out of this
17:13	muhoo	&(let [f [{:a 1, :b 2, :c 9}, {:a 3, :b 4, :c 10}]] (for [i f] [(:a i) (:b i)]))
17:13	lazybot	⇒ ([1 2] [3 4])
17:13	muhoo	the [(:a i) (:b i)] seems unidiomatic to me
17:14	raek	(map (juxt :a :b) f)
17:15	rahcola	rads: should have been more clear, s would be created by mapping f over it :)
17:15	raek	muhoo: with destructuring: (for [{:keys [a b]} f] [a b])
17:15	muhoo	raek: that's mildly insane, but i lov eit.
17:15	rahcola	something like: (letrec [s (cons 0 (map f (range 1 10))) f (fn [i] (+ i (nth s (dec i))))] (do-something s))
17:15	muhoo	thanks
17:16	TimMc	muhoo: data.json is probably slower than clj-json
17:19	muhoo	oh, thanks.
17:20	muhoo	wow, now i need a towel: (map (juxt :display_name :display_photo) (:responses bar))
17:21	Raynes	Calm down.
17:21	muhoo	hehe
17:22	muhoo	you have to understand. the languages i've been using for work have been PHP and Java.
17:22	muhoo	coming to this from that, it's , well, i don't kno quite how to describe it exactly.
17:22	Raynes	amalloy too comes from that world.
17:23	Raynes	He is nuts for juxt, obviously, but he doesn't very often need a towel.
17:23	amalloy	a lot of clojure users do
17:24	TimMc	Perspiration, clearly. >_>
17:24	muhoo	it's hard work, this coding.
17:28	TimMc	muhoo: ##(map #(select-keys % #{:a :c}) [{:a 1 :b 2 :c 3} {:a 4 :b 5 :c 6}])
17:28	TimMc	$ping
17:28	lazybot	⇒ ({:c 3, :a 1} {:c 6, :a 4})
17:28	lazybot	TimMc: Ping completed in 0 seconds.
17:28	amalloy	TimMc: the $ping command doesn't do anything, last i checked
17:28	TimMc	muhoo: ^ if you still want the key-value relationships
17:28	muhoo	ooh, neat, thanks
17:28	TimMc	amalloy: I just wanted a response and thought $ping might do something.
17:28	amalloy	ah. $kill was written for exactly that purpose
17:28	amalloy	though personally i just do &1
17:29	Raynes	$kill
17:29	lazybot	KILL IT WITH FIRE!
17:29	Raynes	Actually, kill wasn't written for that purpose at all.
17:30	Raynes	I use it because it's the only command I can reliably remember that does nothing but print a message.
17:30	Raynes	I added it for testing the bot in the early stages.
17:32	amalloy	sphinxure? really?
17:33	Raynes	._.
17:33	Raynes	$google sphinxure clojure
17:33	Raynes	Yeah, google hasn't been working all day.
17:34	muhoo	TimMc: why would i use a set instead of (map #(select-keys % [:a :c]) f) ?
17:34	Raynes	$google sphinxure clojure
17:34	Raynes	amalloy: So, I haven't touched that code in a year and it is broken.
17:34	TimMc	(map #(select-keys % [:a :c]) [{:a 1 :b 2 :c 3} {:a 4 :b 5 :c 6}])
17:34	TimMc	&(map #(select-keys % [:a :c]) [{:a 1 :b 2 :c 3} {:a 4 :b 5 :c 6}])
17:34	lazybot	⇒ ({:c 3, :a 1} {:c 6, :a 4})
17:35	Raynes	~google foo bar
17:35	clojurebot	First, out of 1900000 results is:
17:35	clojurebot	foobar2000
17:35	clojurebot	http://www.foobar2000.org/
17:35	Raynes	So obviously the API still works...
17:35	TimMc	muhoo: shrug It just seems like the appropriate semantics.
17:36	muhoo	cool, thanks
17:36	Raynes	https://refheap.com/paste/721
17:36	Raynes	I'll give anybody, including amalloy, 1 dollar to fix that bug in the next two hours.
17:38	Raynes	Hint: handle-search in lazybot/plugins/google.clj is giving nil to URLDecoder/decode. Go find out why.
17:40	aphyr	How can I test a private function?
17:41	alex_baranosky	reference it as #'function
17:41	alex_baranosky	I think...
17:41	Raynes	aphyr: You can access the var.
17:41	Raynes	#'some.namespace/someprivatevar.
17:42	alex_baranosky	or use the newest version of midje and call (expose-testables my.namespace.foo) , while marking that priate function with ^:testable
17:42	alex_baranosky	that's not deployed to clojars yet however
17:42	aphyr	Raynes: Ah, excellent.
17:43	aphyr	I was mucking around with ns-resolve... that's exactly what I needed.
17:43	Raynes	alex_baranosky: You forgot </shamelessplug>
17:43	Raynes	:P
17:44	Raynes	alex_baranosky: I have a new library with like three tests. Go rewrite them with Midje.
17:44	Raynes	https://github.com/Raynes/bultitude
17:44	alex_baranosky	Raynes lol
17:45	alex_baranosky	Let me put that on my todo list right after....... nothing
17:45	Raynes	:p
17:45	Raynes	You seem to get off on fixing my tests and stuff, so I figured...
17:45	muhoo	Raynes: is this in the string library somewhere? https://refheap.com/paste/720
17:45	alex_baranosky	bultitude is hard to say
17:46	Raynes	See my note in the README about the name.
17:46	amalloy	clojure.string/join is the second half
17:46	Raynes	muhoo: Nope. It can also be better expressed as (clojure.string/join " " (.split #"\s+" s))
17:46	Raynes	amalloy: It's an ancient snippet from lazybot's title plugin.
17:46	Raynes	:P
17:47	Raynes	Remember when I hated you and join?
17:47	amalloy	haha. the number of interpose/str fixes i've applied to that code already...
17:47	Raynes	Yeah. We used to give each other so much shit over that.
17:48	aphyr	Huh. What's the correct style? join or apply str interpose?
17:48	Raynes	join, for the most part.
17:48	amalloy	join in every instance ever
17:48	aphyr	Got it.
17:49	Raynes	I still tend to use (apply str (interpose " ")) in isolated cases where there is no real reason to bring in clojure.string. Basically, when I'm too lazy to add the require.
17:49	Raynes	More than one of those = use join or die.
17:54	TimMc	Raynes: Did you switch JSON libs recently with lazybot?
18:00	muhoo	hm, https://refheap.com/paste/724
18:00	muhoo	waz that mean?
18:01	TimMc	muhoo: That means you have an older clj-json, I think.
18:01	muhoo	older than what, specifically?
18:01	muhoo	it's 0.5.0, from clojars
18:01	TimMc	than the most recent
18:01	muhoo	http://clojars.org/clj-json
18:02	muhoo	most recent says 0.5.0, via that site
18:02	TimMc	Oh, maybe the commit that makes it compatible with 1.3 hasn't been released yet.
18:02	TimMc	Anyway, I just switched to using cheshire because of that.
18:03	muhoo	odd. 0.4.3 is what noir requires, and it works fine with 1.3
18:04	muhoo	heh, but 0.4.3 works fine . so i had a TOO recent version, apparently.
18:04	TimMc	Weird!
18:04	muhoo	well, no, maybe it's not reimporting it
18:05	TimMc	A regression, perhaps?
18:06	muhoo	i suppose if i'm ogin to be using noir, and it already has 0.4.3 , then there's no sense in my importing some other json library really
18:08	Raynes	TimMc: Not recently, no.
18:08	TimMc	(My internet was being terrible, so I couldn't check for myself.)
18:08	Raynes	I switched it a while back, but the google plugin was working afterwards.
18:08	Raynes	It only stopped working today.
18:09	aphyr	Any recommendation for what file logger I should use? I'm not familiar with java logging.
18:09	devn	is there anything a bit more xpathy for parsed html in clojure?
18:12	TimMc	Raynes: Overlimit?
18:12	Raynes	An API limit? I don't know of one.
18:13	Raynes	And that'd be a pretty cool trick unless someone has spammed him with google commands.
18:13	TimMc	>_>
18:13	TimMc	<_<
18:15	alex_baranosky	devn, this isn't XPATHy really but you might check it out anyway: https://github.com/antoniogarrote/apricot-soup
18:15	muhoo	is there a way to get a seq of all the namespaces that are loaded? i'm looking at clojure.tools.namespace and it doesn't seem to have that
18:16	amalloy	,(loaded-libs)
18:16	clojurebot	#{clojure.java.io clojure.repl}
18:16	muhoo	amalloy: thanks!
18:16	TimMc	&(loaded-libs) ; comparing...
18:16	lazybot	⇒ #{cd-client.core cheshire.core cheshire.factory cheshire.generate cheshire.parse clj-config.core clj-http.client clj-http.cookies clj-http.core clj-http.util clj-time.core clj-time.format clojail.core clojail.jvm clojail.testers clojure.contrib.zip-filter clojure.con... https://refheap.com/paste/725
18:17	muhoo	two bots, no waiting.
18:17	muhoo	if the line gets more than 3 people deep, they open another bot.
18:21	Raynes	amalloy: I've got another lazybot bug for you. If you dec someone's karma to 0 and then try to inc it, lazybot thinks you're asking it to leave karma the same.
18:21	Raynes	$karma foo
18:21	lazybot	foo has karma 0.
18:21	Raynes	(inc foo)
18:21	lazybot	⇒ 1
18:21	Raynes	(dec foo)
18:21	lazybot	⇒ 0
18:21	Raynes	(inc foo)
18:21	lazybot	⇒ 1
18:21	Raynes	wut
18:22	amalloy	cool story
18:22	Raynes	I swea… T…
18:22	tmciver	Ha!
18:22	amalloy	you sweat? go get a towel
18:22	Raynes	amalloy: https://refheap.com/paste/726
18:23	tmciver	not again!
18:23	muhoo	that's really odd, noir supposedly requires clj-json, but if i do loaded-libs, it doesn't show it.
18:23	Raynes	muhoo: Proptip: use noir 1.3.0 alphas.
18:23	amalloy	Raynes: that looks like the "only three operations at a time" restriction
18:23	Raynes	muhoo: They use cheshire.
18:23	muhoo	wait, what?
18:23	Raynes	amalloy: But then the error is wrong.
18:23	muhoo	no, i'm looking at the project.clj, and it says clj-json
18:23	amalloy	or no, because it was different people anyway
18:24	muhoo	plus the source code has specific references to it
18:24	Raynes	(dec foo)
18:24	lazybot	Do I smell abuse? Wait a while before modifying that person's karma again.
18:24	amalloy	lazybot: no, but you smell abused. does he not let you go outside?
18:25	Raynes	(inc redhat)
18:25	lazybot	You want me to leave karma the same? Fine, I will.
18:25	Raynes	amalloy: This was done on a whole different network. Why is it broken here too?
18:25	Raynes	The sky is falling, bro.
18:25	muhoo	Raynes: i've got noir 1.2.2
18:26	Raynes	muhoo: UPGRADE TIME
18:26	muhoo	sigh
18:26	Raynes	http://clojars.org/noir alpha9!
18:26	Raynes	muhoo: Do you use flash sessions?
18:26	muhoo	Raynes: this is from git
18:26	Raynes	If so, they're broken now.
18:26	Raynes	Well, your usage of them is broken.
18:26	muhoo	commit f62e7e5e2045a53cf6980dc1ad0491b94b7ec92f
18:26	TimMc	Raynes: How can that "leave karma the same" error message even exist?
18:26	Raynes	We rewrote how they work in 1.3.0.
18:26	Raynes	TimMc: That's a good question bro.
18:27	muhoo	flash sessions? i don't use flash. adobe can bite me. :-)
18:27	Raynes	Not that kind of flash.
18:27	amalloy	part of the soon-to-be-unveiled lazybot-noop plugin, TimMc
18:27	Raynes	But if you don't know what I'm talking about, you can probably upgrade to 1.3.0 cleanly.
18:28	Raynes	amalloy: Have you deployed 4clojure-pasting-to-refheap yet?
18:28	muhoo	ok, i'll try. really, i figured if i git clone something off of github, i'm getting the most recent version.
18:28	Raynes	muhoo: Not if you aren't using the 1.3 branch.
18:28	muhoo	fair enough, and easy enough to fix too.
18:29	Raynes	I encourage usage of alpha software.
18:29	TimMc	Raynes: So people can find your bugs?
18:29	muhoo	i generally stay away from alpha software
18:29	alex_baranosky	TimMc, exactly!
18:29	muhoo	whatever was stable 2 years ago, is just fine now.
18:29	Raynes	I use macosecks
18:29	TimMc	Raynes: The question is, do you use alpha software?
18:30	alex_baranosky	it really dependes on the software in question
18:30	muhoo	i generally use production stable. that's how i roll.
18:30	Raynes	TimMc: I'm currently using Leiningen master, Emacs 24, macvim from homebrew, Textual for IRC from the unstable git branch...
18:30	alex_baranosky	I don't think non-alpha Midje releases are way less stable than non-alphas
18:30	muhoo	i got enough bugs of my own, i don't need anyone else's.
18:31	alex_baranosky	it depends how much you want to use new features that aren't available yet
18:31	Raynes	And the chrome beta release channel
18:31	Raynes	I would use canary but I'm too lazy.
18:31	muhoo	a friend called me "technologically Amish".
18:32	Raynes	I don't have friends who aren't infants.
18:32	Raynes	Alpha humans.
18:32	muhoo	generally that's why i'm discovering clojure now. when it first came out, i figured, "nah, i'll wait for the bugs to shake out first"
18:32	Raynes	Whatever you do, don't use ClojureScript.
18:32	Raynes	Your head will explode.
18:33	duck1123	How do I get the namespace from a var?
18:33	Raynes	Wait, you're just now getting into Clojure and you're already using RefHeap as your primary pastebin?
18:33	muhoo	i know. i love the idea of clojurescript, but i can tell i've got a few years before i get to play with it.
18:33	Raynes	You and I are going to be very good friends.
18:33	amalloy	&(meta #'inc)
18:33	lazybot	⇒ {:ns #<Namespace clojure.core>, :name inc, :file "clojure/core.clj", :line 857, :arglists ([x]), :added "1.2", :inline #<core$inc__inliner clojure.core$inc__inliner@198f833>, :doc "Returns a number one greater than num. Does not auto-promote\n longs, will throw on overflow. See also: inc'"}
18:34	Raynes	&(-> #'inc meta :ns str)
18:34	lazybot	⇒ "clojure.core"
18:34	muhoo	Raynes: refheap is the first pastebin i found that had an emacs client.
18:34	duck1123	in the meta... I was thinking there was a fn that would give it, thanks
18:34	Raynes	duck1123: ^ minus str if you just want the ns object.
18:34	muhoo	maybe others do, but i didn't know abou tthem.
18:34	Raynes	muhoo: Every single pastebin ever has an emacs client. :\|
18:34	amalloy	Raynes: ns-name, not str
18:34	Raynes	But by all means, keep using refheap.
18:34	Raynes	amalloy: Piss off.
18:35	Raynes	&(doc ns-name)
18:35	lazybot	⇒ "([ns]); Returns the name of the namespace, a symbol."
18:35	amalloy	write me an emacs client for pissing off and i'll consider it
18:35	amalloy	(yes, i agree it's absurd there's a separate function - namespaces should just be Named
18:35	amalloy	)
18:35	duck1123	agree
18:36	Raynes	amalloy: (defun piss-off () (message "Piss off, amalloy"))
18:36	Raynes	DOne.
18:36	amalloy	there was some discussion of it on the mailing list a while ago, duck1123, but as usual nothing came of it
18:36	muhoo	it's gettin' real in #clojurre
18:36	Raynes	amalloy: Want some keybindings too?
18:37	muhoo	ok back to my confusion here. this is what's loaded. no clj-json https://refheap.com/paste/727
18:37	Raynes	muhoo: How did you get that list?
18:38	muhoo	(seq (loaded-libs))
18:38	Raynes	Is this on the 1.3 branch of noir?
18:38	muhoo	[noir "1.2.2"]
18:38	muhoo	sorry, actually 1.2.1
18:38	Raynes	Noir wont load that namespace until you require noir.response
18:39	muhoo	aha, ok, that makes sense
18:39	muhoo	Warning: coercions not declared dynamic and thus is not dynamically rebindable, but its name suggests otherwise. Please either indicate ^:dynamic coercions or change the name.
18:39	muhoo	because there's the error message clj-json spews out
18:39	Raynes	That's not an error.
18:39	Raynes	1.3 uses cheshire which doesn't have that warning.
18:40	amalloy	well, it's a warning about an error that will occur later
18:40	muhoo	i see. ok. now it makes sense why you'd recommend 1.3
18:40	Raynes	You know, I think I'm an asshole for turning people away from clj-json, since a co-worker (I think) maintain sit.
18:40	Raynes	amalloy: An error that never actually does occur.
18:40	Raynes	Pretty sure it is never ever rebound.
18:40	cindy1986	Okay, restart after dist-upgrade
18:40	amalloy	Raynes: it can occur. coercions is intended to be rebound
18:41	Raynes	I don't think so.
18:41	Raynes	At least, unless the client rebinds it.
18:41	cindy1986	mhh grub2
18:41	amalloy	since i maintain it with lancepantz, i am confident in telling you you're wrong
18:41	amalloy	yes, the client is intended to rebind it
18:41	Raynes	Well, you didn't bother telling me why.
18:41	Raynes	"Yes it does. U R rong." wasn't particularly helpful in my understanding.
18:42	amalloy	coercions is pretty gross though
18:42	Raynes	In this case, why do you guys bother maintaining clj-json when cheshire is maintained just fine by someone else and is just as fast?
18:42	amalloy	i dunno
18:42	amalloy	that's lance and justin's decision
18:42	Raynes	Tell Lance to talk to me about it.
18:42	Raynes	Justin told me to talk to Lance about it.
18:43	amalloy	actually it might be because of coercions
18:43	Raynes	But I can never get Lance to actually sit at his keyboard long enough to have a meaningful discussion.
18:43	amalloy	we use it to make clj-json encode sets as json arrays
18:43	Raynes	Maybe you can convince him to.
18:43	Raynes	:p
18:43	muhoo	gentlemen, i really didn't want to start a dispute over something as mundane as json libraries.
18:44	Raynes	We aren't disputing. Just wondering what would need to be done to stop maintaining a library.
18:44	Raynes	If we can use cheshire without major modifications, we might as well.
18:44	Raynes	I can probably add whatever is necessary if anything is necessary.
18:45	Raynes	Or dakrone would if we asked, I'm sure. He basically does whatever I tell him to.
18:45	Raynes	dakrone: sudo make me a sandwich
18:47	amalloy	let's fork off into three disputes: json, whether we were disputing, and whether there are gentlemen present
18:48	Scriptor	quick question, on windows 7 where does the emacs starter kit go?
18:48	Raynes	On your Linux partition.
18:48	Raynes	~rimshot
18:48	clojurebot	Badum, tish
18:48	muhoo	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y
18:49	TimMc	Scriptor: ~/
18:50	mrBliss	Scriptor: WIN+R %APPDATA% RET
18:51	TimMc	oh, right
18:53	Scriptor	hmm, that's the place I used
20:40	codeforkjeff	just upgraded to latest clojure-mode from technomancy. now when i do clojure-jack-in, i get errors in emacs and can't edit the file: "Symbol's function definition is void: slime-tramp-local-filename" anyone else seen this?
20:40	codeforkjeff	i'm editing a local file, not using tramp at all
21:31	aphyr	Is there a sane way to log to a file?
21:31	TimMc	aphyr: where log4j is insane? :-P
21:31	aphyr	I'm like 3 hours and hundreds of pages into java logging and clojure.tools.logging and getting ready to write my own damn logger
21:32	aphyr	I just want to say (set-log-file "foo.log"), and have my log messages go there.
21:32	aphyr	Instead there's this fucking configurator bullshit and XML and property files and nested domain contexts
21:32	TimMc	Write your own logger. You can always sub in something horrible later. :-)
21:32	beffbernard	aphyr: Which framework are you using?
21:33	aphyr	I'll use whatever gets the job done
21:33	TimMc	I bet there's a Clojure lib for this, actually...
21:33	aphyr	Right now just clojure.tools.logging
21:33	beffbernard	tools.logging?
21:33	aphyr	I guess it split off from contrib.logging...?
21:34	TimMc	It moved.
21:34	aphyr	I mucked around with clj-logging-config but it doesn't seem to actually set the filename anywhere. I can't figure out how to make a RollingFileAppender happy, either.
21:34	beffbernard	just add log4j, or any slf4j package in your project.cljj
21:34	beffbernard	then make sure the config files are in your classpath
21:34	TimMc	"just add log4j", he says
21:34	aphyr	I don't want to use a config file though
21:34	beffbernard	:)
21:35	TimMc	I don't think anything to do with log4j is ever simple.
21:35	aphyr	I need to be able to set the log file from a fn call
21:35	TimMc	It is very inflexible at runtime.
21:35	aphyr	I could do the fucking file IO and synchronization myself in like 20 lines...
21:35	aphyr	I don't know why this should be so hard, haha
21:35	TimMc	aphyr: send messages to an agent
21:35	beffbernard	performance, rolling logs, etc
21:36	aphyr	Yeah, performance would be nice
21:36	aphyr	I understand that log4j is super fast, which sounds great...
21:37	aphyr	It's not clear to me how clojure.tools.logging chooses which logger to use
21:37	aphyr	log4j seems to have this whole heirarchy of named loggers
21:41	beffbernard	Yeah, I"m curious myself. I'm just looking into the code ATM
21:51	beffbernard	aphyr: Well in clojure.tools.logging.impl there is a find-factory method… it uses Class/forName to see if each logger is in the classpath
21:51	arohner1	aphyr: https://gist.github.com/37b57284a130eb296ef3
21:52	aphyr	arohner1: !!!!
21:53	aphyr	Yes, that's it exactly.
21:53	TimMc	That's disgusting.
21:53	TimMc	I mean, it would still look worse in Java...
21:53	aphyr	I was about a quarter of the way through writing that myself.
21:54	aphyr	Thanks
21:54	arohner1	np
22:04	technomancy	codeforkjeff: I was a bit trigger-happy applying incoming pull requests
22:04	technomancy	best to stick with the packaged releases rather than following git if you want to avoid breakage
22:23	Frozenlock	I'm still struggling with the java --> clojure conversion. How would this be written in clojure?
22:23	Frozenlock	localDevice.getConfiguration().setProperty(PropertyIdentifier.objectName, new CharacterString("BACnet4J slave device test"))
22:24	Frozenlock	Usually I would do : (.somejavafunction argument). But for this long expression, I'm confused.
22:25	brehaut	at a guess it is (.setProperty (.getConfiguration localDevice) PropertyIdentifier/objectName (CharacterString. "BACnet4J slave device test"))
22:26	brehaut	or perhaps you might prefer (-> localDevice .getConfiguration (.setProperty PropertyIdentifier/objectName (CharacterString. "BACnet4J slave device test")))
22:26	Frozenlock	I'll try it, thanks!
22:27	amalloy	i much prefer the -> notation there. but Frozenlock, you probably should figure this out yourself by translating each sub-piece and asking questions about the parts you don't understand or can't fit together
22:28	Frozenlock	amalloy: I agree. Unfortunatly every java-clojure interop explanation I've seen assume a working knowledge of java. :(
22:29	Frozenlock	It feels like learning 2 languages at once.
22:30	Raynes	You only need to know a certain limited amount about how Java works and only as much as you need to know to do something at any given point in time.
22:30	jaimef	that's what you get with a java dsl :P
22:31	Frozenlock	jaimef: I flushed racket because they didn't have docstring :P
22:37	jaimef	Frozenlock: yeah.. fighting the size atm trying to use compozure without eating all the ram :-/
22:39	Frozenlock	I noticed the same thing earlier today! "Hey, where's all my ram?.. OMG!"
22:40	Frozenlock	Okay, biggest eater was chrome... but still :P
22:43	jaimef	on small vm's in the cloud every byte counts
22:44	jaimef	e.g. run lein with only 256megs of ram :P
22:49	technomancy	jaimef: definitely use lein trampoline if you're short on ram
22:49	jaimef	hey technomancy yeah once I get more clojure clue I will check it out
22:50	amalloy	trampoline is good, but at least as important is setting a maximum heap size for the jvm
22:50	jaimef	technomancy: do you use slime for other lisps?
22:51	amalloy	trampoline gets you from two 500MB instances down to one; -Xmx40m gets you down to maybe 100MB
22:51	technomancy	jaimef: no; CL's attitude towards slime development drives me nuts
22:51	daedius	hey all, got a code question, i'm a noob clojure dev trying to create a macro that will take in a symbol and (def set the symbol to a number
22:51	Raynes	Once we get the classloader stuff solid in Leiningen...
22:52	Frozenlock	technomancy: wasn't slime FOR common lisp?
22:52	technomancy	Frozenlock: sure, and the JVM was for Java
22:52	jaimef	given sbcl's default lack of readline like support slime is the only usable option imho
22:52	brehaut	Frozenlock: how do you feel about CVS?
22:52	technomancy	doesn't mean we can't find better uses for them both =)
22:52	daedius	http://pastebin.com/zaU7jU4z
22:53	daedius	can someone give me a hint for how to do this?
22:53	daedius	oops.. http://pastebin.com/r17UbfC2
22:53	daedius	corrected
22:53	Frozenlock	brehaut: never used it, why?
22:53	brehaut	you are in for a treat
22:54	amalloy	your macro should return a list representing code to run
22:54	brehaut	im pretty sure the CL slime is still in CVS?
22:54	Frozenlock	I think it is. I just snatched the lastest version available on the website and was done with it.
22:55	Frozenlock	Who's developing Slime anyways? I've yet to meet one of "them" :P
22:55	emezeske	daedius: You want to read up on "quoting". I suggest the Joy of Clojure, it has some good content regarding macros and quoting.
22:55	brehaut	If you had had experience with CVS that would tell you everything that is wrong
22:56	daedius	yah, trying to figure it out, I get the gist of it, but I don't know what symbols to use to say "I want the actual value of what this parameter is"
22:57	daedius	in the codes case, getting the value of the symbol thats passed in as a parameter
22:57	Apage43	(defmacro foo [s] `(def ~s 10))
22:59	daedius	ahhh, I came close, I made a mistake of (defmacro foo [s] `((def ~s 10)))
22:59	daedius	thanks Apage43
23:00	amalloy	it's instructive to consider the other approach of (defmacro foo [s] (list 'def s 10))
23:02	emezeske	technomancy: Did you say there was a doc on migrating plugins from lein 1.6 -> 1.7?
23:02	TimMc	emezeske: PLUGINS.md on master
23:02	technomancy	emezeske: https://groups.google.com/group/leiningen/browse_thread/thread/cce838e9460d51c2
23:03	emezeske	technomancy, TimMc: thanks
23:03	TimMc	emezeske: Oops, disregard what I said.
23:03	technomancy	well doc/PLUGINS.md is about 2.0, which does the :plugins thing but also has several other changes
23:03	technomancy	(1.7 has :plugins too)
23:03	TimMc	I assumed you had written 1.7 -> 2.0, because that's what was on my mind.
23:05	emezeske	technomancy: So my plugin has two main namespaces: leiningen.cljsbuild and cljsbuild.core. Do I need to move everything underneath leiningen?
23:05	technomancy	emezeske: the tl;dr is anything that runs inside the project classpath needs to be in its own dependency
23:05	technomancy	:plugins exist only in the Leiningen process
23:05	emezeske	technomancy: My plugin doesn't have anything that needs to be in the project classpath
23:06	technomancy	ok, then you're in luck
23:06	technomancy	you should be able to just update your documentation
23:06	emezeske	Well, it's complaining about not finding the non-leiningen namespace
23:07	technomancy	the leiningen.* convention is only needed for tasks
23:07	emezeske	Okay, so it should work. I'll keep diggin then.
23:08	hugod	technomancy: are installed plugins in 0.7.0 still equivalent to using :dev-dependencies?
23:08	hugod	oops, 1.7
23:08	technomancy	hugod: no, they aren't placed on the project's classpath
23:08	technomancy	apart from that they're the same
23:08	hugod	ok, thanks
23:08	emezeske	technomancy: Uh weird question: if my plugin uses eval-in-project, does that project need to have my plugin as a plugin dependency?
23:09	technomancy	emezeske: oh, you are doing that funky construct-a-dummy-project thing, right?
23:09	emezeske	Yeah
23:09	emezeske	Well, it merges in the :dependencies and :dev-dependencies from the parent project
23:09	emezeske	Maybe I just need to merge in :project as well
23:10	technomancy	you mean merge in :plugins as well?
23:10	technomancy	I'd advise against that
23:10	emezeske	Yeah
23:10	emezeske	Oh
23:10	technomancy	:plugins is specifically intended to be kept off the project classpath
23:10	emezeske	No I mean, add a :plugins to the dummy project
23:10	technomancy	so if you want to assoc lein-cljsbuild specifically in, you could do that
23:10	technomancy	or you could spin cljsbuild-core off into its own jar
23:10	technomancy	if it never needs to run in the context of lein
23:11	emezeske	Right
23:11	emezeske	I think I am really going to like lein 2.0 ^_^
23:11	technomancy	I hope you do! =)
23:14	emezeske	Okay, I think spinning off a non-lein jar is the cleanest thing to do
23:14	emezeske	That solves some other problems as well
23:16	technomancy	I think that the lein2 isolation of :plugins makes sense, and it only seems confusing because :dev-dependencies lets people get away with a lot of crap that didn't particularly make sense to begin with
23:19	emezeske	I agree. The 1.6 way of doing plugins has a very blurred line between "extends leiningen" and "is a library that your project uses."