#clojure – 2012-01-16

2012-01-16

00:13	sritchie	amalloy: I finally snuck a macro-writing-macro into my code
00:13	sritchie	https://github.com/sritchie/midje-cascalog/blob/develop/src/midje/cascalog.clj#L98
00:32	amalloy	heh. why directed at me specifically, sritchie?
00:33	sritchie	amalloy: you gave me the smackdown months ago on that crazy pallet threading macro I kept fighting with
00:33	amalloy	haha oh yeah
00:34	devn	simplest way to drop a map whose key's value is the lowest of all the maps in the set?
00:34	devn	since my set is sorted i am currently using difference
00:35	devn	against #{(last @set)}
00:35	amalloy	disj?
00:36	devn	thanks amalloy
02:43	raek	devn: you can also use (first (rseq the-set)) to get the last element in constant time
02:44	raek	&(let [s (into (sorted-set) "abcde")] (disj s (first (rseq s))))
02:44	lazybot	⇒ #{\a \b \c \d}
02:48	mindbender	I'm having trouble with my clojurescript repl. I'm able to (do (def env (brwoser/repl-env) (repl/repl env)) and get a clojurescript prompt. I type an expression say (+ 1 1) then I connect with the browser but no evaluation happens. Firefox crashes after sometimes and still no evaluation. And I have no source of log for the connection so I can't really figure out what might be wrong. How do I debug this?
03:24	amalloy	raek: well, log2(n) time, anyway
03:31	Licenser	morning
03:31	raek	yeah. sorry. you're right. of course it should be log2(n).
03:54	Blkt	good morning everyone
05:22	clj_newb	is it just me, or do others also find clojure code easier to read when all arguments are prepended with a keyword?
05:28	bsteuber	clj_newb: depends I guess - the longer the argument list, the more appealing keywords are
05:40	clj_newb	bsteuber: experience so far: a little annoying to write, but I thikn much easier to read
05:40	clj_newb	I like it; the context it provides.
05:54	clj_newb	in clojure, is it bad practice to have Animal/Cat.clj Animal/Dog.clj Animal.clj ?
05:54	clj_newb	where Animal.clj does various imports from Cat/Dog and then exports parts of them?
05:54	ambrosebs	there's no need to, namespace != class
05:55	ambrosebs	I would have animals.clj
05:55	ambrosebs	(defprotocol Animal ...) (deftype Cat ...) (deftype Dog)
05:55	ambrosebs	all in one ns
05:55	clj_newb	I'm sorry, I screwd up the above example; I currently have something like: animal/cat.clj animal/dog.clj animal.clj
05:56	clj_newb	what is concerning me is that I have both x.clj and x as a directory
05:56	clj_newb	is this fear irrational and mispalced?
05:56	ambrosebs	that's perfectly valid
05:56	kral	'morning
05:57	clj_newb	lastly, is there a way to tell clojure: namespace animal is defined in animal/main.clj ?
05:58	ambrosebs	why not just put everything in animal.clj?
05:58	clj_newb	I like shorter files; easier for me to read
06:00	ambrosebs	why do you want to do something like that with namespaces?
06:01	ambrosebs	(your original question)
06:02	ambrosebs	there's probably a better way to do what you want
06:03	clj_newb	so I want a single :use line
06:03	clj_newb	that imports all the functions I care about relating to animals
06:03	clj_newb	this includes things in animals/cat.clj animals/dog.clj animals/camel.clj, etc ...; but I dont' want to import all of them (since those files also contains helper functions I don't wnat)
06:04	clj_newb	so basically, there's a subset of animals/*.clj that I commonly use; I want to list them all in an animal.clj, and then just :use animal all over the place
06:04	clj_newb	What is the right pattern that I should be using?
06:04	ambrosebs	you could make the helper functions ^:private
06:04	Chousuke	clj_newb: there's a way to migrate stuff from one namespace to another but it's a hack
06:04	Chousuke	and generally frowned upon
06:05	ambrosebs	generally it's "bad practice" to use an unqualified :use
06:05	clj_newb	Chousuke: oh; I'm just generally using wrappers
06:05	babilen	clj_newb: Look at defn- and ^:private
06:05	clj_newb	Chousuke , ambrosebs , babilen : noted; thanks
06:06	ambrosebs	see (:use animal :only [make-Cat make-Dog])
06:06	Chousuke	honestly though it sounds a lot like you're going for some sort of OOP-ish design :P might be fine in your case though
06:06	ambrosebs	and (:require [animal :as a])
06:07	clj_newb	Chousuke: given my proficiency of clojure; you should tkae whatever you are assuming, choose something a few orders of magnitude worse, and that's probably what I'm doing :-)
06:07	Chousuke	it shouldn't really matter whether your things are cats or dogs or whatnot. You should think more in terms of functions and data.
06:07	clj_newb	it's only recently that i've gotten used to the purity (compared to scheme) of clojure; I feel like I'm still fighting it's namespace tooth and nail
07:56	fullets	Is there a better way to stop slime submitting incomplete expressions that start with { than hacking slime-input-complete-p?
08:37	methods	clojure wiki says to run `mvn package` on clojure-contrib checkout but it seems to fail complaining about missing artifacts
08:41	ambrosebs	methods: contrib is deprecated
08:41	ambrosebs	http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Where+Did+Clojure.Contrib+Go
08:42	methods	oh i was following this http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Clojure_Programming/Getting_Started
08:43	ambrosebs	that looks pretty old, but I don't have a better resource handy
08:43	ambrosebs	you should start by installing leiningen
08:44	ambrosebs	if you find yourself doing "java -jar clojure.jar", then you should be using leiningen
08:45	ambrosebs	IMO
08:45	methods	idk i just built from source
08:45	ambrosebs	sure, that works
08:46	methods	then i went through that wiki and installed rlwrap and stuff
08:47	clgv	method: rlwrap ftw. but now its probably time for leiningen. even more if you want to setup projects
08:47	ambrosebs	"lein repl" brings up a repl with rlwrap
08:47	clgv	methods: leiningen uses rlwrap if installed
08:47	methods	ftw ?
08:47	clgv	ftw=for the win ;)
08:58	RazWelles_	Question: This year I want to learn a lisp, and I want to use it for AI. I'll be using a neural network approach, and I'll probably be crunching a great deal of neurons. Speed-wise, would Clojure-CLR be up to this task, or should I employ SBCL?
09:01	RazWelles_	I ask CLR because the main library I'll need to interface to is .NET
09:01	RazWelles_	other than that, I don't need any other libraries
09:17	clgv	RazWelles_: the answer depends which part will be implemented with clojure? the neuron evaluation and updates?
09:18	RazWelles_	clgv, yes, neuron eval and updates, the .Net just passes the data to it
09:20	clgv	RazWelles_: thats almost only multiplication and addition of values. I guess even in .Net one would consider an attempt to use unsafe code for maximum speedup
09:21	clgv	RazWelles_: the interesting question is, how would your project benefit from lisp/clojure?
09:23	RazWelles_	clgv, well I've wanted to cut my teeth on lisp for a while, so I'm using this project as an excuse. As I'm not going to be purely connectionist, I may take other approaches where I feel the code would be easier to read and still do the job-- but mostly, I wanted to learn a lisp, and drop to C when I need to
09:24	clgv	RazWelles_: Clojure 1.3 improves a lot on 1.2 by introducing a better handling of primitive values like doubles which you'll need
09:25	RazWelles_	clgv, oh that'll be nice. Is it possible to use unsafe code from clojure-clr?
09:25	clgv	RazWelles_: for representing your neurons the immutable data structures would be a speed killer, so you cant benefit from using them for this aspect.
09:25	RazWelles_	I see
09:27	clgv	afair you can call any C# method from Clojure CLR similar to the JVM implementation
09:27	clgv	lets rephrase that to CLI method ;)
09:28	RazWelles_	So perhaps I should look into SBCL and P/Invoke again?
09:28	Kototama	hi, how can I deploy a compojure web app to allow the one who deploy the webapp to edit the css files?
09:29	clgv	RazWelles_: you should try to get a comparison between both languages related to the characteristics you are interested in and decide then
09:30	RazWelles_	clgv, understood, thank you for your help :)
09:31	clgv	RazWelles_: afair you can integrate Clojure CLR seamlessly with other .Net libs the same as clojure with the java libs
09:31	clgv	so that would be one advantage on your list.
09:32	RazWelles_	clgv, yeah, that's was the main reason I wanted to use Clojure, it had ready-to-use .Net access. With SBCL I would have to resort to interfacing myself, wihch is sort of daunting if you're still learning
09:32	RazWelles_	*which
09:34	clgv	RazWelles_: maybe you should set up a benchmark to see if clojure 1.3 using primitives is fast enough for you
09:34	RazWelles_	clgv, I guess that means I'll start by learning clojure- I was going to pick up "The Joy of Clojure" today
09:35	babilen	Good choice
09:35	clgv	good book. you have some previous knowledge about lisp?
09:36	RazWelles_	Only a little, I was trying to work through SICP but classes got in the way, I now finally have some time to dedicate to learning a new programming language
09:37	RazWelles_	Well, sicp is scheme but.. close? lol
09:51	clgv	RazWelles_: I dont know. I had a lecture on CLOS and am using clojure since almost 1.5 years now
10:31	jonasen	Is there a function to turn a keyword into a namespace qualified keyword? e.g., :bar -> :foo/bar
10:31	noidi_	::bar
10:32	noidi_	,::foo
10:32	clojurebot	:sandbox/foo
10:33	jonasen	noidi_: Yeah, but I need a function. e.g., (ns-qualify 'sandbox :foo) -> :sandbox/foo
10:33	raek	jonasen: you could do something like (symbol "the-namespace" (name some-symbol))
10:33	raek	sorry, replace symbol with keyword... :-)
10:34	raek	jonasen: (defn ns-qualify [ns-name-symbol kw] (keyword (name ns-name-symbol) (name kw)))
10:35	jonasen	,(keyword "foo" "bar")
10:35	clojurebot	:foo/bar
10:35	jonasen	raek: Thanks!
10:35	raek	but to answer the original question: no, there isn't a function that does exactly that in clojure.core.
10:39	clgv	is there an update-in! for transient maps?
10:40	clgv	&(apropos "update-")
10:40	clgv	humm no lazybot :/
10:40	Scriptor	,(apropros "update-")
10:40	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: apropros in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
10:40	Scriptor	,(apropos "update-")
10:40	clojurebot	(update-in update-proxy)
10:41	clgv	guess not
11:17	cch1	Looking for help extending midje to segregate facts into unit and integration facts... anybody got an idea of how to structure such an effort?
12:10	TimMc	clgv: The problem with update-in! is that it wouldn't know whether the contained collections were transient or persistent, and would have to ask each one.
12:14	benares_98	is there a difference between the functions mod and div?
12:15	TimMc	benares_98: You've read their docs, yes?
12:16	benares_98	TimMc: I did but didn't understand the 'truncates towards negative infinity'
12:17	tmciver	What's div? According to clojuredocs, it's an incanter function . . .
12:17	benares_98	sorry I meant Mod and rem
12:17	TimMc	&((juxt unchecked-divide-int mod quot rem /) 20 -6)
12:17	TimMc	Oops, lazybot is down.
12:17	TimMc	,((juxt unchecked-divide-int mod quot rem /) 20 -6)
12:17	clojurebot	[-3 -4 -3 2 -10/3]
12:19	TimMc	Oops, bad example.
12:19	TimMc	,((juxt unchecked-divide-int mod quot rem /) -20 6)
12:19	clojurebot	[-3 4 -3 -2 -10/3]
12:20	TimMc	benares_98: quot and rem are the same as / and % from Java -- integer division operators providing quotient and remainder.
12:20	benares_98	thanks
12:21	TimMc	benares_98: mod, however, always gives the positive modulo for a positive modulus. (and vice versa)
12:21	benares_98	It didn't dawn on me until I started testing with negative numbers
12:21	tmciver	,(mod 20 -6)
12:21	clojurebot	-4
12:23	tmciver	TimMc: hmm, I thought I understood mod, but I guess I don't
12:24	tmciver	,(mod -20 6)
12:24	clojurebot	4
12:24	tmciver	I expected those last two to both be -4
12:24	TimMc	,(map (juxt #(mod (- %1) (- %2)) #(- (mod %1 %2))) [20 20 -20 -20] [6 -6 -6 6])
12:24	clojurebot	([-2 -2] [4 4] [2 2] [-4 -4])
12:25	TimMc	^ That's a bit confusing, but what it says is, if you negate both arguments to mod, it is the same as negating the output. (mod distributes -)
12:26	TimMc	tmciver: With (mod -20 6), you start with -20 and keep adding 6 until you reach a non-negative number.
12:27	tmciver	TimMc: Really? Now I'm really confused. I've always thought that mod was 'remainder after division' so
12:27	tmciver	,(mod 20 6)
12:27	clojurebot	2
12:27	tmciver	make sense to me
12:28	tmciver	but I guess I haven't used mod with negative numbers before.
12:28	jamiltron	rem = quot - floor (quot / number) * num
12:28	TimMc	tmciver: It can have various definitions, but this one is "The smallest non-negative number reachable by adding a multiple of the modulus to the... modulend?"
12:29	clgv	is there something with the capabilities of 'for and the sideeffect semantic of 'doseq? e.g. dofor? ;)
12:31	TimMc	tmciver: In other words, the residue of the mod operation with n will always be from [0,n) -- that range is backwards for negative n, of course.
12:34	tmciver	TimMc: so you've got -20 and you keep adding 6 (4 times) to get +4.
12:34	TimMc	yup
12:35	tmciver	TimMc: In (mod 20 -6) you start with 20 and subtract 6 (4 times) to get -4.
12:35	TimMc	right
12:35	rplevy	is clojurescript one intended to be used as a library, or is lib-ish stuff going to be broken into its own project?
12:35	tmciver	Very enlightening.
12:36	TimMc	tmciver: and in -20 -6, -6 is subtracted 3 times to get down (up) to -2.
12:37	tmciver	,(mod -20 -6)
12:37	clojurebot	-2
12:38	tmciver	TimMc: Hmm, why -2? I would have naively expected -6 to be subracted 4 times (to get above zero?).
12:39	TimMc	tmciver: mod (or at least this one) will always preserve the sign of the modulus. quot/rem preserve information about the magnitude of the modulus and modulend (?).
12:40	tmciver	TimMc: In (mod 20 -6) the modulul is -6, yes?
12:40	TimMc	right
12:40	TimMc	so the result will be between -6 and 0.
12:40	tmciver	s/modulul/modulus
12:41	tmciver	TimMc: this is good stuff to know. This definitely would have been a future bug for me (and might still be!)
12:41	TimMc	tmciver: Just watch out in other languages... mod has different meanings. >_<
12:42	tmciver	>_< indeed
12:43	TimMc	I don't think Java even has a modulo in its stdlib.
12:43	joegallo	clgv: what do you want from for that is missing on doseq?
12:44	tmciver	TimMc: isn't it just %?
12:44	clgv	joegallo: is iterating over multiple seq possible? maybe I should recheck the docs...
12:44	rplevy	I just noticed my question earlier is kind of unclear, I'm asking about ClojureScriptOne
12:44	TimMc	tmciver: That's rem.
12:44	joegallo	clgv: pretty sure the answer is yes
12:44	clgv	;(doc doseq)
12:45	clgv	,(doc doseq)
12:45	clojurebot	"([seq-exprs & body]); Repeatedly executes body (presumably for side-effects) with bindings and filtering as provided by \"for\". Does not retain the head of the sequence. Returns nil."
12:45	tmciver	TimMc: yes, I was going to say that rem is probably what I'm going to want, generally.
12:45	clgv	oh. like 'for - I always saw doseq only similar to (doseq [item seq] ...)
12:45	tmciver	TimMc: Thanks. You're a fountain of wisdom as usual.
12:48	TimMc	yay
12:49	joegallo	clgv: what i miss sometimes is the doseq version of map, but it's not like typing doall is that hard ;)
12:49	clgv	joegallo: well doall has some performance disadvantages in that case. but a domap can be easily implemented
12:50	joegallo	i guess i meant dorun, you're right
12:50	clgv	joegallo: if I remember correctly it was about 1/4 in my application specific context
13:38	AWizzArd	$seen fogus
13:44	TimMc	AWizzArd: That's not his nick.
13:45	TimMc	also, lazybot is down
13:47	AWizzArd	Oh okay, what is his nick?
13:48	TimMc	`fogus, I think.
13:54	bobhope	Is there an easy way to compute with complex numbers in clojure?
14:00	jsabeaudry	Is aleph still the best bet for asynchronous http?
14:00	AWizzArd	jsabeaudry: client or server?
14:00	jsabeaudry	AWizzArd: Both
14:01	jsabeaudry	AWizzArd: Mainly server in the short term
14:01	AWizzArd	I think there is not yet a comfortable layer over Jetty, so yes, Aleph then.
14:03	jsabeaudry	AWizzArd: Altighty, thanks for the info! Aleph it is
14:23	AWizzArd	,clojure-version
14:23	clojurebot	{:major 1, :minor 3, :incremental 0, :qualifier nil}
14:23	AWizzArd	,(instance? Long/TYPE 4)
14:23	clojurebot	false
14:23	AWizzArd	why is this false?
14:24	joegallo	,(instance java.lang.Long 4)
14:24	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: instance in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
14:24	joegallo	,(instance? java.lang.Long 4)
14:24	clojurebot	true
14:24	joegallo	Long != long
14:24	AWizzArd	Yes, it is a Long, but shouldn’t it be a long?
14:24	joegallo	Long/Type == long
14:24	AWizzArd	In 1.3
14:25	AWizzArd	I tried this with (long 4), or I had a (defn foo [^long x] (instance? Long/TYPE x)), but they all return 'false'.
14:26	joegallo	Shot in the dark, but hiredman remains my authoritative source on such things: your long is getting upcasted to Long when you ask what its type is, because you can't ask what type a primitive is, only Objects. So your primitive becomes an object, and happily tells you it is a Long.
14:27	hiredman	,(doc instance?)
14:27	clojurebot	"([c x]); Evaluates x and tests if it is an instance of the class c. Returns true or false"
14:27	hiredman	primitives are not an instance of any class
14:28	AWizzArd	I thought in 1.2 one could use `instance?` to check for primitive types.
14:28	hiredman	,(instance? Long 4)
14:28	clojurebot	true
14:28	AWizzArd	But probably 1.3 ensures that when I do (defn foo [^long n] …) that n indeed will be a long.
14:29	hiredman	AWizzArd: most likely instance? was not getting inlined, so you were checking the boxed type
14:30	hiredman	it is possible you might get different behaviour evaled code vs. compiled code because of some interaction of boxing + inlining
14:30	hiredman	,((fn [^long x] (instance Long x)) 4)
14:30	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: instance in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
14:31	hiredman	,((fn [^long x] (instance? Long x)) 4)
14:31	clojurebot	true
14:31	hiredman	,(metadata #'clojure.core/instance?)
14:31	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: metadata in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
14:31	hiredman	,(meta #'clojure.core/instance?)
14:31	clojurebot	{:ns #<Namespace clojure.core>, :name instance?, :arglists ([c x]), :added "1.0", :doc "Evaluates x and tests if it is an instance of the class\n c. Returns true or false", ...}
14:31	hiredman	,(keys (meta #'clojure.core/instance?))
14:31	clojurebot	(:ns :name :arglists :added :doc ...)
14:31	hiredman	clojurebot: jerk
14:31	clojurebot	you cut me deep, man.
14:33	k9quaint-wk	does anyone have a suggestion for a framework for user roles written in clojure that can run on GAE?
14:45	RazWelles	Someone in here mentioned earlier clojure has immutable lists- does that mean it can't self-modify?
14:46	amalloy	RazWelles: self-modifying code (at runtime) is not a thing you really want in any language. it's a thing where you say "OMG if I could do this then I could solve all problems instantly", but if you actually try it you just wind up sad and confused
14:47	RazWelles	amalloy, so... that's a no? :P
14:47	technomancy	"It takes twice as much brainpower to debug something as to initially write it. Therefore if you write code that is as clever as you can, by definition you are not smart enough to debug it."
14:48	joegallo	i'm going to replace "self-modify" in your question with "be modified" and then answer that yes, it means that they can't be modified
14:49	joegallo	like strings in java, or the simple wrapper objects (Boolean, Long, etc.)
14:49	technomancy	It's possible to write a function that compiles a replacement for itself.
14:50	technomancy	it could be fun as an experiment, but if you did that in code that had to be maintained it would be grounds for a severe flogging.
14:51	RazWelles	Well, I'm looking into learning lisp for ai research, I thought clojure might be a good option
14:51	RazWelles	but I'm also weighing in SBCL
14:51	amalloy	technomancy: "possible". more like trivial, right? (def modifying-fn eval). BAM, pass it a different list
14:51	technomancy	amalloy: ssshhh
14:52	RazWelles	I'm at the beginning here so I'm just looking for the right road to dedicate my initial time to
14:52	joegallo	RazWelles: i bet we're probably a little biased toward Clojure in this channel
14:53	amalloy	RazWelles: seriously, code that modifies itself at runtime is a disaster for SBCL and AI as well. try asking in #lisp, they'll tell you not to try that either. focus on other criteria for choosing a language
15:14	semperos	something simple is eluding me; I have this namespace declaration: https://gist.github.com/1622752
15:14	semperos	and it throw a compilation error; anyone care to look?
15:14	semperos	(it's extremely simple)
15:15	amalloy	semperos: your problem is elsewhere
15:15	semperos	thought I was losing it...
15:15	amalloy	presumably in attempting to compile the code you're including
15:15	joegallo	check red.models.document
15:15	semperos	understood
15:15	semperos	and I see my error now, thx amalloy joegallo
15:26	k9quaint-wk	does anyone have a suggestion for a framework for user roles written in clojure that can run on GAE?
15:27	k9quaint-wk	appengine's roles are, shall we say, a bit limited in scope
15:44	peregrine81	is there a reason a simple ORM or HRM doesn't exist for closure?
15:45	peregrine81	like I define a model for a hash and perhaps relationships and I can do things like
15:45	peregrine81	(filter filterFunc Model) => Vector of Hashs of the model
15:46	peregrine81	the filter is really just creates the select statement for me
15:46	peregrine81	filter func may just be a vector of keys and values
15:47	peregrine81	or does this exist and Im blind
15:52	joegallo	like this? http://sqlkorma.com/
16:28	peregrine81	yes thank you!
16:56	ABS	hi all, I spent quite some time reading congomongo's source and I couldn't find any support for mongo's $or in the :where conditions. can someone confirm it's not supported or I'm just blind? :-)
17:01	ABS_	sorry, lost connection
17:06	guns	ls
17:12	TimMc	$seen `fogus
17:12	lazybot	`fogus was last seen quitting 2 days and 20 hours ago.
17:12	TimMc	Yay, lazybot is back!
17:28	argvu	hi =)
17:28	Devlol	Hello. Just a little question, if reify is used many times, can it causes permgen space oom exceptions ?
17:28	jsabeaudry	I'm completely puzzled. I'm playing with aleph and if I put my data ByteBuffer in little-endian the http response fails to get decompressed by gzip. Anyone has a clue what could be the problem? http://pastebin.com/uuSRNdRm
17:28	TimMc	Devlol: A (reify ...) statement only creates the class once -- on compile (whether AOT or JIT).
17:29	hiredman	jsabeaudry: fails how?
17:29	jsabeaudry	hiredman: Wireshark fails to decompress it and firefox says it cannot read the response
17:30	hiredman	maybe your content type header should say the content is gzipped?
17:30	jsabeaudry	(which is probably the same error but firefox is less explicit I would guess)
17:30	argvu	i'm new with clojure and i'm trying to code a sudoku solver with backtracking, right now this code http://pastebin.com/MF0RBWvC is able to solve grids but it's really slow (take lots a secs to solve just one hard grid), it's probably really wrong but i cannot figure out where is the mistake. someone can help me ? =)
17:31	TimMc	argvu: "lots of seconds" -- how many?
17:31	argvu	it depends, from 7/8 to 20
17:31	dnolen	argvu: also slow compared tow hat?
17:32	dnolen	to what, I mean
17:32	argvu	compared to .. for example http://attractivechaos.github.com/plb/kudoku.html
17:33	ztellman	jsabeaudry: the response headers say it's gripped?
17:33	Devlol	TimMc: ok thanks for the clarification, because it looks like http://bit.ly/wu3y9g causes me some problems
17:33	ztellman	gzipped*
17:33	dnolen	argvu: did you port the code?
17:34	argvu	no, i haven't
17:34	jsabeaudry	ztellman: Wireshark says they do
17:35	ztellman	jsabeaudry: that's probably netty assuming the byte buffer is big-endian, then
17:36	ztellman	since that's the standard java and network traffic ordering
17:39	argvu	l
17:43	TimMc	argvu: You could try profiling it.
17:43	TimMc	I don't think I'm going to spend a half-hour understanding your undocumented code. :-/
17:44	argvu	i understand =)
17:44	argvu	what do you mean with profiling ? how exactly ?
17:44	jsabeaudry	ztellman: That is a pity, not being able to transfer bytes in the order I please. I'll try to find a hack around it I guess
17:45	jsabeaudry	ztellman, hiredman: Thanks for your help
17:45	dnolen	argvu: what are you comparing against then? it's hard to improve the performance without knowing that.
17:45	ztellman	jsabeaudry: keep in mind that's just a guess on my part, but there's nothing in aleph proper that touches the contents of the body
17:47	argvu	dnolen: againt any of these https://github.com/attractivechaos/plb/tree/master/sudoku
17:47	isak_	how can i convert a bunch of vectors to sets? I'm trying (apply set [1 2 3] [4 5]), but i get an ArityException
17:47	dnolen	argvu: but did you port one of those?
17:47	argvu	dnolen: no i didn't
17:48	raek	isak_: you want to get (#{1 2 3} #{4 5}) as the output?
17:48	dnolen	argvu: so it's going to difficult to say, no? since it may be your approach.
17:49	isak_	yeah raek
17:49	raek	isak_: then 'map' is the function you are looking for: ##(map set [[1 2 3] [4 5]])
17:49	lazybot	⇒ (#{1 2 3} #{4 5})
17:50	tolstoy	Anyone using core.cache? Is it not meant to be mutable in any way?
17:50	tolstoy	I'd like a simple-cache where you put values in and they fade out after TTL.
17:50	argvu	dnolen: it's my approach for sure, because i understand that it' woule be to long to try to understand my code and fix it, i'll ask another question ... what's the best way to do backtrakcing in clojure ? =)
17:50	isak_	thanks raek. so do you know why apply gives an arityexception?
17:51	ztellman	isak_ (set …) only takes a single argument
17:51	isak_	i see
17:52	raek	isak_: (apply set [1 2 3] [4 5]) doesn't make sense if you want it to get (#{1 2 3} #{4 5})
17:52	dnolen	argvu: there's no best way, probably many of the appraoches in that repo will work
17:53	raek	first, (apply f a b c [d e f]) is a shortcut for (apply f [a b c [d e f]])
17:53	raek	which means (f a b c [d e f])
17:53	amalloy	raek: whoa, that is not true
17:53	TimMc	yeah
17:54	argvu	dnolen: the issue here is that i'm so stupid that i cannot even understand it ... however i was talking about backtracking in general
17:54	TimMc	(apply a b c [d e f]) is (f a b c d e f)
17:54	amalloy	shorthand for (apply f [a b c d e f]), which is the same as (f a b c d e f)
17:54	raek	amalloy: er. yeah.
17:54	raek	sorry folks... :-)
17:54	argvu	dnolen: *understand the approach in that repo
17:54	amalloy	you meant: (apply f [a b c] [d e]) is (f [a b c] d e)
17:54	TimMc	and mine is wrong by one important letter
17:54	jsabeaudry	ztellman: Found a way around it, I enqueue (.array buf) instead of buf and it goes through perfectly.
17:54	raek	so
17:55	tolstoy	Ah, maybe core.memoize is what I want (on top of core.cache).
17:55	raek	(apply set [1 2 3] [4 5]) is the same as (apply set [[1 2 3] 4 5]) and (set [1 2 3] 4 5)
17:55	ztellman	jsabeaudry, yeah, because that will wrap the array in a big-endian buffer again
17:55	ztellman	if you reverse the order after the encode-to-buffer, does that work too?
17:56	isak_	ok i get it, so apply is only for when you dont know the arguments at compile time
17:57	jsabeaudry	ztellman: surprisingly it does not :S
17:58	ztellman	jsabeaudry: remember that (.order buf …) returns a new byte-buffer, it's not a side-effect
17:59	ztellman	or wait, according to the javadoc it is, never mind
17:59	ztellman	no idea, then
17:59	jsabeaudry	ztellman: Ah nevermind it does work to rereverse it. I had forgotten the .rewind
18:00	ztellman	jsabeaudry: cool, that's at least a little sane, then
18:00	ztellman	I'll make a note to look if it's always right to reverse it before handing it over to netty
18:01	jsabeaudry	ztellman: Might be related to this bug https://issues.jboss.org/browse/NETTY-158
18:01	ztellman	jsabeaudry: shouldn't effect the encoder, I'd expect
18:01	MenTaLguY	hmm
18:02	MenTaLguY	does clojure have an equivalent of bit-shift-right that doesn't do sign extension?
18:02	MenTaLguY	i.e. Java's >>> ?
18:05	amalloy	,(require 'clojure.repl)
18:05	clojurebot	nil
18:05	amalloy	,(repl/apropos "shift")
18:05	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: No such namespace: repl, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
18:05	amalloy	,(clojure.repl/apropos "shift")
18:05	clojurebot	(bit-shift-left bit-shift-right)
18:06	MenTaLguY	so that's a no?
18:06	TimMc	Nothing obvious.
18:07	TimMc	Checking logs...
18:09	TimMc	clojure.lang.Numbers doesn't have anything
18:11	TimMc	06:08 < mikera> Is now: (defn >>> [v bits] (bit-shift-right (bit-and 0xFFFFFFFF v) bits))
18:11	TimMc	shrug
18:11	amalloy	at least twice i've seen someone implement this and desire to add it to lang or core
18:11	MenTaLguY	I guess I'll just drop down into Java for this code
18:12	amalloy	never seems to take off
18:12	MenTaLguY	it probably really should be there
18:13	TimMc	amalloy: Open a ticket... -.-
18:13	hiredman	http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-827
18:15	hiredman	http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-899 this is so bad
18:15	hiredman	jesus, fogus upvoted it?
18:16	TimMc	pretty terrible
18:16	technomancy	~guards
18:16	clojurebot	SEIZE HIM!
18:18	amalloy	hiredman: how can you tell who voted?
18:18	alexbaranosky	can you downvote on Jira?
18:18	hiredman	amalloy: if you click on the number next to vote
18:18	amalloy	maybe you have more privs, but for me there's nothing clickable, and nothing happens if i try anyway
18:19	hiredman	it says Vote (2)
18:19	hiredman	if you click on the 2
18:19	alexbaranosky	the number isn't clickable, but the thumbs-up is clickable
18:19	amalloy	yep, i recognize what "click on the number" means. i'm saying it doesn't do anything
18:19	hiredman	whatever you do, don't click on the thumbs up
18:19	alexbaranosky	I'm afraid that I might accidentally upvote it ...
18:20	hiredman	dunno
18:20	alexbaranosky	I guess I don't have downvote priveleges.
18:20	amalloy	alexbaranosky: i don't think there is a downvote
18:20	hiredman	I don't think you can downvote
18:20	hiredman	which is too bad
18:20	amalloy	you can rescind an upvote, though, iirc
18:20	alexbaranosky	wonder if I can alter the http params
18:21	amalloy	alexbaranosky: yeah, if you accidentally upvote you can just take it back
18:21	alexbaranosky	amalloy: good to know
18:22	hiredman	"Stuart Halloway created CLJ-899 - Allow colon as whitespace in map literals"
18:22	hiredman	ugh
18:23	alexbaranosky	I don't get how this is even in discussion
18:23	hiredman	right
18:24	hammer_	Hi, I'm Dan, first time on here. I am trying to convert a logistic classifier from Python to Clojure, and it's running very slow - much slower than the Python version. Here's the gist: https://gist.github.com/1623542 Any help would be greatly appreciated.
18:24	alexbaranosky	next we'll have an alternate syntax that looks like this: `f(g(x))`
18:24	amalloy	alexbaranosky: "Guys wouldn't it be cool if". "Oh man that'd be awesome, make an issue"
18:24	alexbaranosky	that you can use interchangeably with (f (g x))
18:25	alexbaranosky	use them together like this: `(f g(x))`
18:25	amalloy	it doesn't look like a discussion so much as a (bad) idea stu had and threw up on jira to remember/survey on
18:26	hammer_	This is the function call I use: (logistic-beta-vector (label-vec 100000) (feature-vec 100000) 0.00000001) https://gist.github.com/1623542
18:26	technomancy	amalloy: the best part is IIRC it happened right after stu shut some other issue down for "you need a concrete problem statement"
18:27	amalloy	see, he was careful not to say "one needs..."
18:27	hiredman	I don't know that clojure.math.numeric-tower is performant at all
18:28	hammer_	hiredman: sorry, I don't even use that library -- I'll remove it
18:28	hiredman	although, it actually doesn't look like you are using it
18:29	hiredman	math operations like + and * are faster if you treat them as binary
18:29	hiredman	(two arguments)
18:30	hiredman	I think apply + is actually faster than reduce +
18:30	hammer_	also, one iteration takes about 800 seconds
18:30	hammer_	hiredman: thanks, I'm profiling the change
18:30	amalloy	hiredman: really? i think apply is just calling reduce, isn't it?
18:30	hiredman	I would check out visualvm if you haven't yet
18:31	amalloy	or rather, the many-arg clause of + calls reduce
18:31	technomancy	amalloy: normally it would; + is kind of special in this case
18:31	hiredman	amalloy: yes, but I seem to recall it being faster that way
18:32	hiredman	actually, I could have it reversed, reduce may be faster
18:32	hiredman	,(time (apply + (range 1e6)))
18:32	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 729.371 msecs"
18:32	clojurebot	499999500000
18:32	hiredman	,(time (reduce + (range 1e6)))
18:32	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 623.267 msecs"
18:32	clojurebot	499999500000
18:33	sritchie	I'm working with hammer_ on this one in person, actually
18:33	hiredman	hammer_: if the python code infact just calls a c extension it may be hard to beat
18:33	sritchie	it's bizarre, the clojure code's something like 2 orders of magnitude slower than python
18:33	sritchie	I had thought it was fast because it was cheating and taking some view on the data
18:34	sritchie	hiredman: but it actually runs everything each time
18:34	amalloy	,(time (loop [acc 0, coll (range 1e6)] (if-let [[x & xs] (seq coll)] (recur (+ acc x) xs) acc)))
18:34	clojurebot	"Elapsed time: 1497.646 msecs"
18:34	clojurebot	499999500000
18:34	hiredman	sritchie: what do you mean?
18:35	sritchie	hiredman: in numpy, if you run some operation on a matrix and look at one corner, I think the operation acts lazily and only applies itself to the piece you're looking at
18:35	sritchie	I wonder if it's worth shelling out to python
18:36	hiredman	is it a fairly direct port of the python? I doubt it, since it is using map and filter
18:36	sritchie	hammer_: can you post the python?
18:36	hammer_	sure one second
18:37	hiredman	it also looks like maybe you are missing a set of parens in your code
18:37	hiredman	line 87
18:37	robinkraft	sritchie: I'm pretty sure Numpy calculations generally aren't lazy
18:38	hiredman	is this clojure 1.2 or 1.3?
18:38	sritchie	1.3
18:40	hammer_	Here is the Python gist: https://gist.github.com/1623646
18:41	hammer_	I fixed the parens problem; but that would just screw up the actual values, not the amount of time. rerunning now.
18:42	TimMc	How do I call the int version of a Java method that is overloaded for both int and long? (Working on a better patch for bit-shift-right-logical)
18:43	amalloy	TimMc: you can certainly do it by (.foo obj (Integer. x)). you might also get away with hinting it somewhere instead
18:44	TimMc	Hmm, OK -- that's what I tried.
18:44	TimMc	I'll have to check the bytecode to confirm this is the right call...
18:47	AWizzArd	Does ^:const only work for primitives?
18:48	hiredman	AWizzArd: they are not evaled
18:48	hiredman	so effectively it only works for readable things
18:48	TimMc	amalloy: Oops, no -- the method is overloaded for int, long, and Object!
18:51	_carlos_	hi!
18:51	TimMc	...and that's wrong too, never mind.
18:52	_carlos_	is it idiomatic in any case to use mutually recursive functions? I was always taught that wanting to do it implied a bad design. clojure enables it with a forward declaration and a special function call
18:54	clj_newb	is there a shorter way of writing: (map (fn [data env] (my_eval :data data :env env)) lst) ?
18:55	clj_newb	i wnat to shorten the (fn [data env] (my_eval :data data :env env)) part
18:55	hiredman	-
18:55	technomancy	clj_newb: any map call with a nontrivial literal fn is probably better off as for
18:55	clj_newb	the fn is trivial
18:55	clj_newb	it's just it takes named arguments
18:55	technomancy	that won't even work for arity reasons
18:56	clj_newb	you're ab oslutely right
18:58	oakwise	_carlos_: check out the trampoline function
18:58	_carlos_	oakwise: I know, I just wondering why such a feature
18:59	_carlos_	technomancy: what does it mean nontrivial literal fn?
18:59	clj_newb	unrelated question: is there a way in clojure to auto-require an entire directory tree? i.e. I want to auto-require ~/my-clojure-helper-functions/*/.clj
18:59	clj_newb	(it seems like this is possible since all of java.* appears to be auto required)
19:00	technomancy	_carlos_: any (fn []) call more than 10-15 chars I guess?
19:00	technomancy	clj_newb: import != require
19:00	TimMc	clj_newb: Just java.lang.*
19:00	clj_newb	I'm looking for :require, not :use
19:00	oakwise	_carlos_: clojure doesn't have full tail call optimization, so if two functions keep calling each other recursively, they'll keep building up the call stack unnecessarily
19:01	clj_newb	I just wantt o be refer to sthigns like my_util.****/foo w/o having to add :requires all over the place
19:01	technomancy	clj_newb: there's no built-in way to do that, but there is nstools.
19:02	_carlos_	oakwise: I know. my question is "why should one even consider to build mutually recursive functions"
19:02	TimMc	MenTaLguY: I've submitted a patch for bit-shift-right-logical, but who knows.
19:04	emezeske	_carlos_: mutual recursion can be used in place of complex state machines sometimes
19:05	emezeske	_carlos_: without a central dispatch loop thing
19:05	emezeske	_carlos_: it can be cleaner to just call another function than to set some new state value and recur
19:05	TimMc	technomancy: You haven't mentioned slamhound to clj_newb yet?
19:06	oakwise	_carlos_: Ah I see. State machines are the classic case I think.
19:06	technomancy	oh yeah, there's that too
19:06	technomancy	TimMc: a small ns form can be better than an autogenerated large one though
19:06	clj_newb	slamhound/README.md is very informative
19:07	MenTaLguY	with state machines, you can potentially model the state machine as a lazy stream over its inputs
19:07	MenTaLguY	which solves your stack depth problem
19:07	MenTaLguY	while still allowing a mutually-recursive style
19:11	_carlos_	I see. thank you emezeske, oakwise, MenTaLguY .
19:11	MenTaLguY	laziness ftw
19:36	clj_newb	is there a shorter way to write (list 'a (list 'b 'c) 'd) ? Writing '(a (b c) d) causes the a/b/c/d to be namespace-quantified, which I donm't want
19:37	TimMc	clj_newb: '(a (b c) d)
19:37	TimMc	not `(a (b c) d)
19:38	clj_newb	crap, I actuallly need `
19:38	clj_newb	since I use ~ elsewhere
19:39	amalloy	then consider using keywords instead of symbols to represent your data items. if they're not supposed to be recognizable vars, symbols are often just confusing
19:41	clj_newb	amalloy: so this almost works; except all of my functions also use keywords since I pass arguments by name
19:41	clj_newb	as a result, it becomes iffy figuring out which keywords should be looked up in the environment, and which should not
19:42	clj_newb	okay, using ` with ~' appears to make it work
19:42	TimMc	"which keywords should be looked up in the environment" means you're using keywords wrong.
19:43	clj_newb	i'm using code is data / datat is code as a way to represent nested GUIs as lists
19:43	clj_newb	then to build them, I "eval" the list, by looking at the first element, to know what gui element to construct
19:43	clj_newb	right now, this is a symbol; but if I use a keyword instead; then I need to "oookup the keyword in the environment"
19:48	clj_newb	wtf
19:48	clj_newb	why is (type `(1 2)) = Cons ? rather than PersistentList ?
19:49	hiredman	what made you think it would be PersistentList?
19:49	technomancy	clj_newb: because the classes aren't what matters
19:50	clj_newb	when writing a metacicular evaluator
19:50	clj_newb	how do you test if somethign is listy ?
19:50	clj_newb	seq?
19:50	clojurebot	seq is what
19:50	technomancy	yeah, it's seq?
19:50	technomancy	don't trust the list? predicate; it is 95% useless.
19:51	clj_newb	woot
19:51	clj_newb	it works now
19:51	clj_newb	thanks
19:51	hiredman	well, if you want to check for an IPersistentList it works great
19:51	clj_newb	I feel like my IQ has risen 10 points back to 80/100
19:51	hiredman	which is exactly what the doc string says it does
20:03	clj_newb	is there a way to tell clojure: when a named param is not passed, don't assume value of nil; complain! ?
20:04	technomancy	you can use preconditions for that
20:14	TimMc	technomancy: The surprise is really that syntax-quote returns seqs, not lists.
20:17	amalloy	TimMc: you don't really want it to return lists anyway, right? it wouldn't be as versatile
20:18	TimMc	I guess with seqs it can be streaming.
20:18	amalloy	`(~start ~@middle ~end)
20:19	amalloy	this doesn't have to be part of a macro - it's way more descriptive than (concat [start] middle [end])
20:19	amalloy	and allows for the possibility that middle is infinite, or or just way longer than you need (the streaming point you made)
20:20	amalloy	i suspect it also saves the time of walking over the whole things twice - once to build a list, then again later when you want to use it
20:20	sritchie	hiredman: really odd about that clojure function --
20:21	sritchie	from hammer_ before
20:21	sritchie	I found that it was extremely fast for 100,000
20:21	sritchie	run over and over
20:21	sritchie	but when I tried to run this particular code with 1,000,000 iterations, the first four or so were very fast, then the whole computation started to bog down, until by 7 or so it was interminable
20:21	sritchie	then running 100,000 again took 17 seconds
20:22	amalloy	on an unrelated note: i find i never want to write (with-meta expr meta). i always end up writing (-> expr (with-meta meta)), to make it easier to separate/parse mentally. am i the only one?
20:22	sritchie	do you guys know which memory setting I need to jack up to deal with issues like this?
20:23	technomancy	amalloy: I always forget the argument order too
20:24	joegallo	yup, every time
20:24	amalloy	technomancy: i actually remember it, these days. maybe using -> helped me with that
20:24	technomancy	amalloy: with-meta is the only with-* call in clojure.core that doesn't introduce dynamic scope
20:24	amalloy	yeah, i remember chouser's riddle
20:24	technomancy	making it a certifiable odd duck
20:27	amalloy	it's a little arguable whether with-open actually introduces dynamic scope
20:27	sritchie	more concisely -- does anyone know how to deal with a case of bogged-down garbage collector?
20:27	amalloy	like, the values are lexically scoped. but they don't work outside of the apparent dynamic scope
20:27	technomancy	amalloy: never thought of it that way
20:27	amalloy	depends what's bogging it down, really, sritchie
20:28	sritchie	I do have a concise example, I believe
20:36	sritchie	boom, examplified: https://gist.github.com/1624010
20:37	sritchie	amalloy: I'm running this log-likelihood function a bunch of times -- I had thought that dorun would prevent clojure from holding on to the head of a sequence
20:37	sritchie	I'm guessing that I'm just getting slammed with garbage collection issues here?
20:37	sritchie	(profiling at the bottom)
20:43	amalloy	sritchie: have you tried profiling and watching the heap size over time? this kinda looks like some of your objects are piling up on the heap and becoming uncollectable
20:44	sritchie	I'm off to download yourkit now
20:45	amalloy	i don't see anything in the code that looks like it should behave that way, unless there's an error in locals-clearing and labels/features aren't being cleared when you start your loop
20:45	hiredman	I suggested visualvm above
20:45	hiredman	comes with the jdk
20:45	sritchie	ah, got it
20:47	amalloy	we had symptoms like this once, and what was happening was each iteration of the algorithm generated X amount of trash, and Y amount of stuff that couldn't be GCed because it wound up in a memoization cache. eventually, there was only X + epsilon amount of space left in the heap, and every couple allocations triggered another GC run, barely cleaning up anything
20:50	sritchie	that sounds like a pretty fine description of what's going on here
20:50	sritchie	I'll try out visualvm and see if I can target what's generating the garbage
20:53	sritchie	hmm, I think I fixed it
20:53	sritchie	https://gist.github.com/1624059
20:53	sritchie	I started by taking off of a stream this time
20:53	sritchie	oh
20:54	sritchie	it was this:
20:54	sritchie	(def X-rand (feature-vec 10000000))
20:54	sritchie	(def y-rand (label-vec 10000000))
20:54	sritchie	X-rand and y-rand were holding on to the heads of those lazy sequences
20:54	sritchie	and as the code walked toward 1,000,000, more was getting realized
20:58	amalloy	ah, right
21:00	devth	if i have a symbol "println" - how do i resolve that to the function in clojure core? my syntax-quote-fu is weak.
21:03	devth	oh. it's just (resolve 'println)
21:16	bitops	hi all, I'm getting confused trying to require in my ns.
21:16	bitops	code: (ns foo.core (:require [clojure.string :as str]))
21:16	bitops	but I get an error message about periods?
21:16	bitops	in the repl my require works fine.
21:19	bitops	sorry, the error message is "Don't know how to create ISeq from: clojure.lang.SymbolDon't know how to create ISeq from: clojure.lang.Symbol"
21:24	bitops	ah, my apologies. the actual error message that confounds me is: lib names inside prefix lists must not contain periods
21:32	TimMc	$findfn 'println println
21:32	TimMc	Argh, lazybot is deadbot.
21:34	TimMc	bitops: That looks fine... did you copy that code verbatim, or retype it?
21:35	bitops	TimMc: that is a verbatim copy and paste from my code
21:35	bitops	I am quite perplexed.
21:37	TimMc	bitops: Check for outside problems like wrong version of Clojure, not having saved file to disk, etc.
21:37	TimMc	sanity checks
21:38	bitops	TimMc: checking...
21:39	TimMc	Works here.
21:40	TimMc	I once got some weird-ass errors when I accidentally nabbed an unstable clojure.core. (Tip: Version ranges in dependencies are not very reliable.)
21:40	bitops	TimMc: I'm re-starting my swank server, project.clj looks good.
21:41	bitops	TimMc: hrm. Still explodes.
21:41	bitops	Don't know how to create ISeq from: clojure.lang.Symbol
21:44	bitops	TimMc: I may just try to re-create my project. I had just gotten off the ground. Maybe I'm missing something that will become obvious when I re-init.
21:45	TimMc	What happens when you lein run it?
21:47	bitops	TimMc: I hadn't tried that, let me see.
21:47	bitops	no :main namespace specified in project.clj
21:47	bitops	I'm building a test webapp
21:47	bitops	for heroku deployment
21:48	bitops	but maybe I'm missing something?
21:49	bitops	TimMc: it's all good actually. I'm about to head home, so no biggie.
21:49	bitops	thank you for the help!
21:49	TimMc	Ah, lein run wouldn't help then!
21:49	adiabatic	stupid question of the week: can't noir use clojure 1.3? I did the `lein plugin install lein-noir 1.2.1` dance, and it pulled clojure 1.2.1
21:50	seancorfield	that's just for the lein plugin i think
21:50	seancorfield	once you create a noir project with the plugin, i think you'll find it uses clojure 1.3.0
21:50	seancorfield	(all lein plugins have to use clojure 1.2.1 to run)
21:52	adiabatic	why? that bit of lein hasn't been updated yet?
21:52	seancorfield	lots of plugins out there aren't compatible with 1.3.0 yet i suspect
21:52	seancorfield	so leiningen can't run plugins in 1.3.0 because many will break
21:52	benares_98	can anyone explain how the for function is used? I don't understand what [seq-expr body-expr] in the doc means.
21:52	adiabatic	benares_98: are you familar with list comprehensions in other languages?
21:53	seancorfield	(for [i (range 10) j (range 10)] (* i j)) ;; does that help?
21:53	benares_98	adiabatic: This is my first venture in lisp dialect
21:53	adiabatic	benares_98: I'm familar with 'em from Python, so…
21:54	seancorfield	,(for [i (range 3) j (range 3) :when (not= i j)] [i j (* i j)])
21:54	clojurebot	([0 1 0] [0 2 0] [1 0 0] [1 2 2] [2 0 0] ...)
21:55	seancorfield	i can't remember what other qualifiers you can specify in there but it's pretty flexible / powerful
21:55	amalloy	:while, :let
21:55	adiabatic	(doc for) doesn't even mention :let
21:55	clojurebot	"([seq-exprs body-expr]); List comprehension. Takes a vector of one or more binding-form/collection-expr pairs, each followed by zero or more modifiers, and yields a lazy sequence of evaluations of expr. Collections are iterated in a nested fashion, rightmost fastest, and nested coll-exprs can refer to bindings created in prior binding-forms. Supported modifiers are: :let [binding-form expr ...], :while test, :when test. (
21:55	benares_98	I see examples of for with :when and :while in brackets but where do theses fit in the [seq-expr body-expr] of the doc?
21:55	amalloy	adiabatic: guess again
21:56	rlb	In 1.2 I was reading a 64-bit unsigned int like this: (bit-and (.readLong data-stream) 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF). What's the best way in 1.3?
21:56	seancorfield	adiabatic: "Supported modifiers are: :let ..."
21:56	adiabatic	right. my bad.
21:56	amalloy	benares_98: (for (comment THIS IS THE seq-expr) [x (range) :when (even? x)] (comment THIS IS THE body-expr) (/ x 2))
21:57	seancorfield	benares_98: see the examples i posted? do those help
21:58	benares_98	seancorfield: so :when, :while, :let are support modifiers for the 'for' function?
21:58	benares_98	seancorfield: they do I'll look at them again.
21:58	seancorfield	they control how the sequences are iterated over
21:59	seancorfield	,(for [i (range 1 10) :let [s (* i i)]] (str i " squared is " s))
21:59	clojurebot	("1 squared is 1" "2 squared is 4" "3 squared is 9" "4 squared is 16" "5 squared is 25" ...)
22:00	rlb	(I know I can use (.and (BigInteger/valueOf ...) ...), just wanted to see if there was anything more appropriate.)
22:00	seancorfield	,(clojure-version)
22:00	clojurebot	"1.3.0"
22:00	seancorfield	,0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
22:00	clojurebot	18446744073709551615N
22:01	amalloy	,(for [c (range 100) :let [c2 (* c c)], b (range c) :let [b2 (* b b)], a (range b) :when (= c2 (+ b2 (* a a)))] [a b c])
22:01	clojurebot	([3 4 5] [6 8 10] [5 12 13] [9 12 15] [8 15 17] ...)
22:01	benares_98	thanks, I believe I understand it now.
22:01	adiabatic	(for [cake cakes] [(put-cherry-on-top cake)])
22:02	amalloy	benares_98: a somewhat more involved example to compute pythagorean triples
22:02	devn	So, I'm doing a fresh installation of OSX on this machine and I'm looking to set up a modern clojure environment. My old config uses slime-connect, paredit fixes for the slime buffer, and on and on. What is the modern guide for having a sane clojure environment in emacs? Anyone here use el-get?
22:03	seancorfield	devn: I went with Emacs 24.0.90, the init.el mods to add marmalade, clojure-mode, lein swank-clojure and clojure-jack-in - seemed to be the easiest setup i could find documented...
22:04	rlb	seancorfield: ?
22:04	seancorfield	but i haven't done much customization... what's the "paredit fixes for the slime buffer"? sounds like i could use those :)
22:04	rlb	,(bit-and 4 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF)
22:04	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: bit operation not supported for: class clojure.lang.BigInt>
22:04	adiabatic	benares_98: also: :when keeps evaluating every single thing that it can in the seq-exprs — :while, on the other hand, stops the for on first failure
22:04	devn	seancorfield: matching {}'s, highlighting, etc.
22:04	adiabatic	IIRC
22:05	devn	seancorfield: honestly my emacs.d is such a mess that I'm sort of amazed any of it works.
22:05	seancorfield	rlb: ah, i wasn't sure why your existing code wasn't sufficient... now i get it
22:05	devn	seancorfield: but I do have a really nice clojure environment from what I've seen
22:06	seancorfield	devn: sounds like nice fixes... where do i get those? :)
22:06	devn	seancorfield: I can show you what I have -- hopefully it helps -- give me a moment and I'll gist it.
22:06	benares_98	why is :when, :let, :while not in the (doc for)? Is there another doc that is more concise?
22:06	rlb	Hmm, and the obvious thing won't work because the reader makes 0xFF... into a bigint, so you can't use valueOf.
22:07	adiabatic	benares_98: look again
22:07	rlb	Is there a way to turn a bigint into a BigInteger?
22:07	adiabatic	it's all in there, but the difference between :when and :while is underdocumented
22:07	adiabatic	(I need to file a bug report if not a patch against that…)
22:08	seancorfield	,(doc for)
22:08	clojurebot	"([seq-exprs body-expr]); List comprehension. Takes a vector of one or more binding-form/collection-expr pairs, each followed by zero or more modifiers, and yields a lazy sequence of evaluations of expr. Collections are iterated in a nested fashion, rightmost fastest, and nested coll-exprs can refer to bindings created in prior binding-forms. Supported modifiers are: :let [binding-form expr ...], ...
22:09	seancorfield	benares_98: I see :let there
22:09	benares_98	rlb: you're right, it's in the doc but it has no explanation on how the modifiers are used.
22:09	seancorfield	(doc for)
22:09	clojurebot	"([seq-exprs body-expr]); List comprehension. Takes a vector of one or more binding-form/collection-expr pairs, each followed by zero or more modifiers, and yields a lazy sequence of evaluations of expr. Collections are iterated in a nested fashion, rightmost fastest, and nested coll-exprs can refer to bindings created in prior binding-forms. Supported modifiers are: :let [binding-form expr ...], :while test, :when test. (
22:09	rlb	Ahh -- (.toBigInteger ...)
22:09	seancorfield	and there is :while and :when
22:09	devn	seancorfield: https://gist.github.com/1624324
22:10	seancorfield	thanx devn
22:10	adiabatic	seancorfield: right, but I had to ask in here what the difference between :while and :when was
22:10	devn	seancorfield: hopefully it can be of some use -- I honestly don't remember where half of that stuff came from, it's just been snowballing
22:10	benares_98	thanks for the help everyone!
22:10	adiabatic	(ok, you're probably answering two different questions, but…)
22:10	rlb	Not, the prettiest, but...
22:10	rlb	(.and (BigInteger/valueOf (.readLong data-stream))
22:10	rlb	(.toBigInteger 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF)))
22:10	rlb
22:10	benares_98	I'll play with the modifiers to understand furhter
22:10	rlb	works
22:11	rlb	Of course, I should probably cache the .toBigInteger conversion...
22:11	rlb	(I'm assuming that the compiler won't do that for me.)
22:12	seancorfield	devn: some of that's pretty scary looking stuff! :)
22:13	seancorfield	adiabatic: i guess i thought :while was intuitive... and :when too based on the (when cond expr)
22:13	seancorfield	but you're right it's underdocumented
22:14	adiabatic	if you're familiar with [keep\|drop]while, sure. If you're not…
22:17	devn	seancorfield: agreed. this is why I'm asking for suggestions. I've built a cathedral
22:49	amalloy	seancorfield: you might be surprised about :while. i learned a bit about it from stackoverflow recently
22:50	seancorf	oh? do tell... now i'm curious! :)
22:50	alexbaranosky	is it the spiritual cousin of take-while, but in for expressions?
22:53	amalloy	seancorf: http://stackoverflow.com/q/8816464/625403 - looking back at the docs it should be clear it behaves this way, but i had sorta imagined :while as magically guessing whether i mean "end the current iteration of this inner-most variable" vs "end the result of the for expression"
22:56	alexbaranosky	amalloy, nice. I've yet to use :while - but good to learn more about it for future reference
22:57	amalloy	yeah, it's applicable a lot less often than when/let
22:58	adiabatic	hunh, weir
22:58	adiabatic	d
23:31	seancorfield`	if i missed anything, blame comcast :(
23:40	amalloy	seancorfield`: not much, if anything: http://lazybot.org/logs/#clojure/2012-01-16
23:40	TimMc	lazybot dot org?
23:40	TimMc	Since when did bots get domains?
23:41	amalloy	you didn't get yours? check your mailbox again
23:41	TimMc	haha
23:42	seancorfield`	appreciated amalloy - i really didn't miss much, eh? :)
23:42	seancorfield`	interesting about :while... i hadn't thought about it in that much detail...