#clojure – 2012-01-11

2012-01-11

00:50	alexbaranosky	(partition 0 [1 2 3]) :(
01:50	echo-area	http://pastebin.com/J5tbgPFm
01:50	echo-area	Could somebody please take a look at it
01:50	echo-area	Why is the `recur' at line 8 not considered a tail call?
01:53	echo-area	And why is `recur' inside `finally' not considered a tail call?
01:53	echo-area	Thanks
02:23	clj_newb	both len & length are nil -- does clojure have a builtin function for returning the length ofa list?
02:26	echo-area	clj_newb: I'm also new to Clojure, don't know if this is good or not: (.size list)
02:27	clj_newb	.length works
02:27	clj_newb	how does .length and .size differ?
02:27	echo-area	Yes these works, but I don't know if these are really safe to use
02:27	gf3	clj_newb: count
02:27	gf3	&(doc count)
02:27	lazybot	⇒ "([coll]); Returns the number of items in the collection. (count nil) returns 0. Also works on strings, arrays, and Java Collections and Maps"
02:28	anntzer	hi, it seems that marginalia isn't picking up docstrings of namespaces that are "empty" (i.e. just (ns some.name.space "Some docstring."))
02:28	anntzer	is that correct?
02:33	clj_newb	echo-area , gf3 : nice, thanks
02:34	clj_newb	dumb question: is there anythign like gdb, or the ability to run a repl @ the point of an thrown assertion in clojure? I'm kind of tired of writing detailed assertion messages, and would really like iether gdb, or a repl to examine the frame at which the error has been thrown
02:58	clj_newb	is there a way to combine a defn w/ a with-meta?
02:58	clj_newb	i.e. I want to a funciont that I defined to have meta data attached to it
03:03	G0SUB	clj_newb: use def, fn & with-meta
03:03	clj_newb	is there a short hand for (def x (with-meta (fn ...) {data})) ?
03:03	G0SUB	clj_newb: where do you want to put the metadata in? you can have it in the var (x) or the function object.
03:04	G0SUB	clj_newb: if you want the metatdata to be in the var, use something like this - (def ^{:my-meta 42} x (fn [...
03:06	clj_newb	(thinking)
03:06	clj_newb	( I want the meta data attached to the function )
03:06	clj_newb	these functions are predicates
03:07	clj_newb	when they throw asertion errors, I want the function to also print out its meta data
03:07	G0SUB	clj_newb: if you want to put the metadata in the fn object, you'll need with-meta. (with-meta (fn [] …) {:x 1})
03:07	clj_newb	(info on what the function does)
03:07	clj_newb	G0SUB: noted; thanks
03:08	G0SUB	clj_newb: using with-meta you can put metadata in existing fns as well.
03:08	clj_newb	i can create new objects that is the old fn + meta data
03:08	clj_newb	not insert into old fn
03:08	clj_newb	is that correct?
03:09	G0SUB	clj_newb: yes, you are right.
03:09	G0SUB	(def my-first (with-meta first {::x 1 ::y 2}))
03:10	G0SUB	clj_newb: with-meta will return a new object. it doesn't alter the existing one.
03:18	kcin	~zip
03:18	clojurebot	zip is not necessary in clojure, because map can walk over multiple sequences, acting as a zipWith. For example, (map list '(1 2 3) '(a b c)) yields ((1 a) (2 b) (3 c))
03:20	Fossi	:o
03:22	G0SUB	~zipmap
03:22	clojurebot	Gabh mo leithscéal?
03:23	G0SUB	~(doc zipmap)
03:23	clojurebot	Titim gan éirí ort.
03:23	clj_newb	is thre a good book on the design & implementation of clojure? i'm looking for somethign deper than "Programming Clojure"
03:23	G0SUB	clj_newb: the joy of clojure.
03:29	kral	hi all
03:45	Blkt	good morning everyone
03:46	AWizzArd	Hey Blkt.
03:46	Blkt	:D
03:54	Raynes	&(doc zipmap)
03:54	lazybot	⇒ "([keys vals]); Returns a map with the keys mapped to the corresponding vals."
04:34	drdo	Is there a fastcgi library?
04:38	AWizzArd	drdo: I guess there is fastcgi support for Java. That could possibly be used for Clojure too.
04:48	maio	&(+ 1 1)
04:48	lazybot	⇒ 2
05:24	G0SUB	bartj
05:49	tsdh	If I have an object o and a method name m given as a symbol, how can I invoke that method on o? (. o m) will try to invoke literally a method m. Usual java reflection, then?
05:51	raek	tsdh: yes. there is a useful method for that: clojure.lang.Reflector/invokeInstanceMethod
05:52	tsdh	raek: Great. Thank you.
05:52	raek	tsdh: if the name is avalable at "compile time" (i.e. when your program starts up and the top levels of the namespaces are evaled) then you can use a macro
05:53	tsdh	Sure, memfn.
05:53	raek	no, you will have the same problem with memfn
05:53	raek	(memfn is just an older alternative to #(...)-style anonymous functions)
05:55	raek	tsdh: example: (def method-name "foo") (defmacro call-foo [o & args] `(. ~o ~(symbol method-name) ~@args))
05:56	raek	(call-foo object 1 2 3) will then expand to (. object foo 1 2 3)
05:56	raek	note that macro arguments are not evaluated, but you can still access previously defined values
05:57	tsdh	I see. Well, I think I don't want to force compile-time availability of classes. invokeInstanceMethod() is not exactly what I want, because I don't want to throw an exception if that method is not defined for the given object.
05:57	raek	what do you want to do instead?
06:00	tsdh	Simply return nil
06:02	raek	I guess you could either catch that exception and return nil or use the Java reflection api directly, try to look up the method, and invoke it if it exists
06:03	tsdh	raek: I'm doing the latter right now.
06:03	raek	the first approach will result in way smaller code, but you have more control in the second (e.g. you can choose exactly which method to invoke if it's overloaded)
06:05	raek	beware of the security implications, don't let unsanitized user input control which method on which class is invoked, etc, etc :-)
06:05	tsdh	raek: Well, actually I want only zero-arity method with matching name. I just feared that catching exceptions might be slower than picking myself.
06:06	raek	why slower? I would expect it to be about the same.
06:07	raek	but yeah, exceptions for control flow is bad and all that
06:07	tsdh	That's what I've read somewhere sometime too, but it might be an urban myth...
06:09	raek	anyway, I doubt that it will be the performance bottleneck of your app
06:27	tsdh	raek: Yeah, I'll try both versions and then we'll see.
08:26	lnostdal	,(remove #{1} [0 1 1 2])
08:26	clojurebot	(0 2)
08:26	lnostdal	mh, remove is missing a :count keyarg :P
08:27	lnostdal	e.g., (remove #{1} [0 1 12] :count 1) => [0 1 2]
08:27	lnostdal	ups, meant, (remove #{1} [0 1 1 2] :count 1) => [0 1 2]
08:32	G0SUB	lnostdal: fair point. but start, end, keyfn etc. would be useful as well, don't you think?
08:43	lnostdal	G0SUB, yup, i miss them quite a lot at times :)
08:43	lnostdal	i'm doing what feels like a "hack" using with-local-vars and mapcat now
08:43	G0SUB	lnostdal: lol. I think you'll love the fact that you don't need to look up CLHS every time :-)
08:46	G0SUB	lnostdal: do you just need the count or do you need the other options as well?
08:46	lnostdal	CLHS is awesome!
08:47	lnostdal	and there was no looking up; just F1 in emacs via shortcut key and it was right there
08:47	G0SUB	lnostdal: no doubt. I loved CLHS as well.
08:47	G0SUB	lnostdal: C-cC-dd
08:47	lnostdal	..or it was also there at the bottom of emacs; slime "status bar" there showed all required and keyword args
08:48	lnostdal	,(let [blah 42] (with-local-vars [blah blah] (var-get blah)))
08:48	clojurebot	#<Var: --unnamed-->
08:48	lnostdal	not sure what's going on there
08:49	G0SUB	,(let [blah 42] (with-local-vars [blah :nambla] (var-get blah)))
08:49	clojurebot	:nambla
08:49	lnostdal	yeah
08:50	G0SUB	lnostdal: is this not what you expected?
08:50	lnostdal	that is, but not the one before
08:50	G0SUB	lnostdal: why? you were binding blah to itself apparently
08:51	G0SUB	,(let [blah 42] (with-local-vars [blah 'blah] (var-get blah)))
08:51	clojurebot	blah
08:52	cemerick	G0SUB: congrats on having your talk accepted :-)
08:53	G0SUB	cemerick: thanks! I need to work on the talk now.
08:53	cemerick	heh
08:53	cemerick	I don't think anyone ever constructs their talk before submitting it. ;-)
08:53	G0SUB	cemerick: your talk is going to be great as well, I am sure.
08:53	G0SUB	cemerick: you don't? :-P
08:54	cemerick	I do a loose outline, and then make sure to do a dry-run on a smaller crowd ahead of time.
08:54	lnostdal	ok, yeah, so it's not evaled .. kind of surprising, i think
08:54	cemerick	It's easier for me this time around; I'm not doing anything super-technical.
08:54	G0SUB	cemerick: that's the trick. I will do a dry run as well, with my team
08:54	cemerick	After the book, I'm mostly just looking to have fun for a while. ;-)
08:55	G0SUB	cemerick: the book is like having a child.
08:55	cemerick	get the fuck OUT! ;-)
08:56	G0SUB	cemerick: haha. but you are in the esteemed company of a certain Grand old man. I hope that helped.
08:56	cemerick	hah
08:56	cemerick	Indeed, he has some gems in there.
09:47	solussd	how do I capture out, but only for the output of one function call, not the output of function calls that produce input to the function call I want to capture out of (e.g. using with-out-str)?
09:48	di-csuehs	can you wrap that call in a bind?
09:48	di-csuehs	oh...but you want what it calls to still get the usual out
09:48	solussd	example (let [result (function-with-printlns-i-do-not-want-to-capture)] (with-out-str (function-printing-to-out-that-i-do-want-to-capture result)))
09:50	solussd	note that the second function takes 'result' as an argument. since 'let' is just a lexical thing with-out-str catches everything printed form the first function too. :/
09:51	di-csuehs	let is a special form. I wonder if that is what is biting us.
09:51	di-csuehs	I would expect result to be the result of calling function-with-printlns-I-do-not-want
09:51	di-csuehs	but I am still new to clojure
09:52	raek	solussd: you can use 'binding' to give out another value, e.g. a StringWriter
09:52	raek	you might need to wrap it in a PrintWriter also
09:52	solussd	what I need is 'result' to hold the value returned from the first function, but, referential transparency dictates that the function call and its result should be interchangeable….
09:53	kumarshantanu	hi
09:53	di-csuehs	Raek, can we count on result to hold results of the fx call or will it be somehow lazily evaluated later in the with-out-str or binding?
09:53	manutter	solussd: what if you wrap the "silent" function in it's own with-out-str binding, and then just discard the str?
09:53	solussd	raek: you mean to capture the output of the first function?
09:53	raek	,(let [result ..., sw (StringWriter.), pw (PrintWriter. sw)] (binding [out pw] ... result ...))
09:53	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: ... in this context, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
09:53	kumarshantanu	can anybody point out what's wrong with this macro….
09:53	kumarshantanu	(defmacro altering [dvar valu & body] (try (alter-var-root ~dvar (constantly ~valu)) ~@body (finally (alter-var-root ~dvar (constantly ~dvar)))))
09:54	raek	kumarshantanu: first of all, no syntax-quote (`)
09:54	solussd	well the first function isn't silent, per se, I want it to print to stdout. :D
09:54	manutter	wrap it in a binding to out that restores stdout then?
09:54	kumarshantanu	raek: thanks!
09:55	solussd	manutter: that's it!
09:55	raek	only the code in the body of 'binding' will have its output redirected and captured
09:55	solussd	I feel dumb now. :D
09:55	raek	solussd: IIRC, you can then call .toString on the StringWriter to get what has been written to it
09:56	di-csuehs	solussd: nah, sorry.
09:56	raek	solussd: you can also check the source code of with-out-str: (source 'with-out-str)
09:58	solussd	what is out bound to, by default?
09:58	raek	solussd: a PrintWriter that writes to System.out
10:00	raek	with the "platform default" encodig
10:03	casperc	Is there any way to do destructuring and call a function in one go?
10:05	casperc	something like (let [result (function (:val map))] ...do stuff..), but with destructuring
10:05	raek	casperc: destructuring of result or map?
10:05	casperc	raek: i apologize for not thanking you yesterday btw, your tip helped me but I got pulled away before i got the chance to thank you
10:06	raek	no worries :)
10:06	casperc	in this case map
10:06	raek	well, you can always destructure map where it is bound
10:07	casperc	not sure I get your meaning
10:07	raek	(defn foo [{:keys [val], :as map}] (let [result (function val)] ...))
10:07	raek	assuming it was (def foo [map] ...) before
10:07	casperc	yes
10:08	casperc	i guess i was trying to avoid the extra let in order to call the function
10:08	raek	destructuring can only be done where you give a name to a value, e.g. in a let or a formal parameter of a function
10:09	raek	the point is, you still have to "let" map somwhere, right?
10:09	raek	you can do the destructuring there
10:09	casperc	aye, but I can't call the function :)
10:09	raek	(unless it's a global var, though)
10:10	casperc	guess i am just trying to think up something which there is no syntax for
10:10	casperc	thanks again :)
10:10	raek	anyway, using (:val map) to pick out the :val value is perfectly fine too
10:11	casperc	yeah, I was just trying to destructure and validate my input in one go
10:11	casperc	in fact a macro might do the trick actually
10:18	solussd	raek: I tried this: https://gist.github.com/1595144 but no luck-- it works when rebinding dynamic versions of 'str', but not with out
10:20	TimMc	solussd: What happens when you run that?
10:21	solussd	TimMc everything that is printed is returned in the string
10:23	TimMc	solussd: Could laziness be screwing this up?
10:23	TimMc	Wait, it's kind of fucked up to put with-out-str in a -> macro...
10:24	solussd	I'm trying to 'println' from the function that creates the arg 'directory-records', which is a seq, so it is lazy, but you'd think the inner binding (which is inverted thanks to the threading macro) would bind out to the right thing once the seq is realized..
10:24	solussd	TimMc: :) I tried it without the -> macro too.. same
10:24	solussd	the expansion looks fine
10:24	TimMc	It's hella confusing with the ->
10:25	solussd	i agree- with the bindings and let it is.. it wasn't before that though
10:25	solussd	i'll clean that up
10:26	solussd	before it was simply (-> my-map xml/emit with-out-str)
10:27	TimMc	&(str "[" (let [out-er out] (with-out-str (print "before") (binding [out out-er] (print "while")) (print "after"))) "]")
10:27	lazybot	java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! pop-thread-bindings is bad!
10:27	TimMc	,(str "[" (let [out-er out] (with-out-str (print "before") (binding [out out-er] (print "while")) (print "after"))) "]")
10:27	clojurebot	while
10:27	clojurebot	"[beforeafter]"
10:27	TimMc	So the theory is solid.
10:29	solussd	throwing the seq in a do…
10:29	solussd	hm. same problem. wtf.
10:29	TimMc	doall
10:29	solussd	ah
10:30	TimMc	Right around the map.
10:31	TimMc	binding and lazy seqs do not play well together
10:31	solussd	yay! do all fixed it!
10:31	solussd	thanks!!
10:32	solussd	*doall, damnyouosxautocorrect
10:32	TimMc	xml/emit prints to out?
10:32	TimMc	I see, you're intended to bind out around that.
10:34	solussd	weird… actually, only the first of my printlns from the function that creates directory-records makes it to stdout- the rest end up in the returned string
10:35	solussd	that makes no sense
10:36	llasram	I'm late to the party, but why can't solussd just use `let' to capture the results of the first function (allowing it's output to get printed as usual), then capture the output of the second with `with-out-str'?
10:36	solussd	llasram: let is a lexical thing- it's really just creates a lexical name for the form its naming
10:37	llasram	Yes... But it also controls evaluation order for side-effects
10:37	solussd	llasram: maybe ill try that now that i'm forcing evaluation of the seq with 'doall'
10:37	llasram	,(let [a 1, b (println a), c (println "also"), d 2] d)
10:37	clojurebot	1
10:38	clojurebot	also
10:38	clojurebot	2
10:38	llasram	Not the best example, but you get the gist
10:42	raek	solussd: do you know what 'binding' is used for?
10:42	solussd	raek: rebind dynamic vars
10:43	solussd	:)
10:43	raek	good. :) did you manage to get it working?
10:43	solussd	weird- llasram's advice still only prints the first println to stdout
10:43	solussd	binding is a dangerous but awesome tool.
10:44	llasram	solussd: Actually, re-reading one of your last messages, let does not "just create a lexical name for the form its name". It evaluates the form, and creates a lexical name for the result of the evaluation
10:44	raek	ok, so you figured out that you need doall around map
10:45	solussd	llasram: that's interesting to know-- i always assumed it leaned on referential transparency to not do that and say it's 'ok' it doesn't. :)
10:45	solussd	but side-effects, e.g. printing, are a good reason for it to not work like that
10:46	raek	solussd: also note that binding gives the var a thread local value temporarily. when the control leaves the 'binding' form, the value of the var is whatever it was before it entered it
10:46	solussd	raek: yup. knew that.
10:47	TimMc	solussd: I don't know anything about to-xml-struct. Does it return a lazy seq itself? That is, the map might not be the only level of lazy.
10:47	solussd	well thanks for the help-- off to work- will open this back up then.
11:02	tsdh	How do I check if an object in an array?
11:05	mdeboard	tsdh: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3249334/test-whether-a-list-contains-a-specific-value-in-clojure ?
11:06	tsdh	Ups, I've meant "if an object is an array".
11:06	tsdh	Something along (array? (to-array [1 2 3])) => true
11:06	TimMc	&(.isArray (class (int-array 5)))
11:06	lazybot	⇒ true
11:07	tsdh	TimMc: Thanks.
11:07	TimMc	There might be something better...
11:07	TimMc	$findarg map % [(int-array 5) [] 6] [true false false]
11:07	lazybot	[]
11:07	melipone	I want to create a table mapping keys to count and I just want to keep track of the most common, say 1000, keys. What's the best data structure to do that in clojure?
11:08	tsdh	TimMc: What's that? $findarg
11:08	TimMc	tsdh: It's a lazybot command.
11:09	tsdh	I guessed so, but what does it do? Or where are the docs?
11:09	TimMc	It tries a bunch of core functions for the placeholder (%) and sees which ones make the statement true.
11:09	tsdh	Oh, cool.
11:10	TimMc	$findfn 2 2 4 ; related command
11:10	lazybot	[clojure.core/unchecked-multiply clojure.core/+ clojure.core/* clojure.core/unchecked-add clojure.core/+' clojure.core/unchecked-multiply-int clojure.core/*' clojure.core/unchecked-add-int]
11:10	manutter	melipone: how many keys are we talking about here?
11:10	melipone	manutter: maybe 4000 keys
11:11	TimMc	melipone: You want to cache the results of a function?
11:11	melipone	TimMc: yes
11:12	manutter	somebody was doing an enhanced caching/memoizing lib recently, weren't they?
11:12	manutter	I want to say it was fogus, but I don't remember
11:14	melipone	In Java I would do that with a treemap to keep track of the highest counts in the map.
11:14	jsabeaudry	I see that clojure.string.replace allows me to replace characters by other characters but what about replacing a character by nothing (aka removing it)
11:14	jkkramer	manutter: https://github.com/clojure/core.cache
11:15	manutter	Yeah, that's it
11:16	manutter	melipone: what jkkramer said
11:17	TimMc	,(require 'clojure.string)
11:17	clojurebot	nil
11:17	TimMc	,(clojure.string/replace "foo" "o" "")
11:17	clojurebot	"f"
11:17	melipone	thanks! I'll look at that
11:18	TimMc	jsabeaudry: ^
11:18	TimMc	But be careful with replace, I think it uses String/replaceALl, which is terrible and should be avoided.
11:18	jsabeaudry	TimMc: Oh, heh, slow morning, thanks for the wake-up call :D
11:19	jsabeaudry	TimMc: How so?
11:19	jsabeaudry	TimMc: What should be used instead?
11:19	TimMc	I wrote my own.
11:20	TimMc	Let me check on soemthing...
11:20	jsabeaudry	TimMc: (str (filter... I guess but what is the problem with java's replaceAll ?
11:20	melipone	off-topic: is there an @ command in IRC?
11:20	jsabeaudry	melipone: What is an @ command?
11:22	tsdh	How can I get the class object of a primitive type?
11:22	franks	Q: can i somehow use slurp to read from in till EOF? (asked this yesterday, but didn't get ny working suggestions while i was online... )
11:23	TimMc	jsabeaudry: Never mind, replace is safe.
11:23	melipone	jsabeaudry: it's a twitter command that let's you put the name of the person you want to talk to
11:23	TimMc	melipone: You just did it.
11:24	melipone	TimMc: okay. I just wrote your name. Simple, he?
11:24	TimMc	If your IRC client doesn't specially mark lines where someone says yourname: then get a new IRC client!
11:25	TimMc	Your client should also tab-complete usernames at the beginning of a line.
11:26	franks	TimMc: any IRC-client recommendations for mac
11:27	TimMc	jsabeaudry: Look at replace's docs. If you give it a j.u.r.Pattern, the string replacement is weird, unless you pass it through j.u.r.Matcher/quoteReplacement to make it a literal.
11:27	TimMc	franks: No idea, I'm on GNU/Linux. I use a terminal program called irssi which I'm reasonably happy with.
11:27	blakesmith	Mmm... irssi
11:28	blakesmith	irssi is in homebrew, so you can install it on a mac if you want.
11:28	semperos	colloquy on mac is nice
11:29	semperos	irssi takes a little bit of dedication to get comfortable with :)
11:29	technomancy	plus you have to not be allergic to perl
11:30	franks	semperos: tried colloquy, but didn't let me search - felt it was half baked
11:31	manutter	mmm, perl...
11:32	franks	terminal-based irc-client... the mac has turned me into too much of a softy for that...
11:35	jsabeaudry	franks: I beleive I used XChat Aqua before and it was fine.
11:35	fridim	if you are "allergic" to perl (I think it's suitable for scripting irssi script.. but nvm), there is still weechat that supports other languages
11:36	lucian	franks: i liked LimeChat
11:38	pandeiro	emacs for everything. there, i said it.
11:38	franks	Just found "Linkinus"... seems to be in active development/support...
11:40	llasram	Using ERC here. If you use Emacs, I see little reason to use any other client
11:40	pandeiro	attaboy llasram
11:41	TimMc	technomancy: I haven't had to touch perl in my use of irssi.
11:41	melipone	llasram: I use emacs.
11:42	franks	(... waiting for the vi-boys to react and witness this age-old feud to play out again for the gazillions time ;-) )
11:42	melipone	TimMc: thanks! it worked!
11:43	TimMc	franks: Does vi have an IRC client?
11:43	pandeiro	TimMc: touche'
11:43	pandeiro	Does vi have org-mode?
11:43	franks	TimMc: wouldn't know as I used to use emacs...
11:44	TimMc	franks: There's really not very much sparring in here over emacs and vi.
11:44	melipone	boys, don't start the editor wars again ...
11:44	TimMc	I think vi is the second most common editor used by people in this channel.
11:45	llasram	Yarh, geez. I was just trying to say that ERC is a pretty solid client, and if you already use Emacs, you might as well IRC with Emacs
11:45	lucian	but i really liked LimeChat, enough that i'd like to write my own cross-platform version
11:45	pandeiro	llasram: i was just horsing around, vim is great, emacs is great, everyone wins... some just win a little more
11:46	TimMc	I use Emacs locally, and my IRC client runs under screen on a server. Using ERC would be really annoying.
11:46	TimMc	unless I had a bouncer, I guess.
11:46	pandeiro	TimMc: i assume ERC can't connect to your server as a proxy or something?
11:46	franks	lucian: thanks - I'll take a alook at LimeChat
11:47	TimMc	pandeiro: No idea. NOt enough motivation to muck round.
11:47	TimMc	*around
11:47	pandeiro	TimMc: i've never even looked at the manual for ERC, but that's what i love about it..
11:47	pandeiro	zero features, zero configuration
11:48	TimMc	Sounds Mac-ish.
11:48	pandeiro	yeah but you don't need to send money to Apple
11:49	franks	How do i easily convert a string into a var that i can use in (doc ...)?
11:51	franks	How to I get a fully qualified symbol from a symbol? (kind of lost in the string, (fully qualified) symbol, var, namespace...)
11:51	cemerick	,(resolve (symbol "reduce"))
11:51	clojurebot	#'clojure.core/reduce
11:52	cemerick	doc is a macro that dumps the :doc metadata of a var to stdout; presumably that's not what you want?
11:55	franks	I want it in a string, and was looking at (with-out-str (doc reduce))
11:55	cemerick	,(-> "reduce" symbol resolve meta :doc)
11:55	clojurebot	"f should be a function of 2 arguments. If val is not supplied,\n returns the result of applying f to the first 2 items in coll, then\n applying f to that result and the 3rd item, etc. If coll contains no\n items, f must accept no arguments as well, and reduce returns the\n result of calling f with no arguments. If coll has only 1 item, it\n is returned and f is not called. If val is suppli...
11:55	TimMc	sniped
11:57	TimMc	doc does a little more than that, actually
11:57	TimMc	&(macroexpand `(doc reduce))
11:57	lazybot	⇒ (clojure.core/doc clojure.core/reduce)
11:57	TimMc	grr
11:57	cemerick	yeah, well, whatever ;-)
11:58	pandeiro	&(macroexpand-1 `(doc reduce))
11:58	lazybot	⇒ (clojure.core/doc clojure.core/reduce)
11:58	cemerick	huh, ns documentation is broken via doc
11:58	TimMc	I'm wondering if lazybot's doc is a function...
11:59	TimMc	&doc
11:59	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Can't take value of a macro: #'sandbox6832/doc
11:59	TimMc	nope!
11:59	TimMc	&(macroexpand-1 `(clojure.repl/doc reduce))
11:59	lazybot	⇒ ((var clojure.repl/print-doc) (clojure.core/meta (var clojure.core/reduce)))
12:00	franks	nice bot!
12:01	TimMc	$botsnack
12:01	lazybot	TimMc: Thanks! Om nom nom!!
12:01	pandeiro	strange that it shows doc being in clojure.core, that's not right is it?
12:01	llasram	pandeiro: That's the just symbol-resolving result of syntax-quote
12:01	TimMc	llasram: It works correctly in my REPL though.
12:01	pandeiro	yeah mine too
12:02	llasram	Er, s,symbol-resolving,namespace-scoping,
12:02	TimMc	Whatever you call it, lazybot is doing it differently.
12:02	TimMc	,`(doc reduce)
12:02	clojurebot	(clojure.repl/doc clojure.core/reduce)
12:03	TimMc	clojurebot: Slow, but sometimes even correct.
12:03	clojurebot	No entiendo
12:03	llasram	Which version of Clojure and which REPL? It was moved in 1.3, and clojure.repl isn't included by default, but IIRC `lein' will pull it in under some circumstances
12:04	franks	still not clear how you would convert a string into something that doc groks... (doc (resolve (symbol "reduce"))) doesn't work
12:04	franks	&(doc (resolve (symbol "reduce")))
12:04	lazybot	java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! resolve is bad!
12:06	franks	getting to the :doc property is nice, but doc also give you the arity and such
12:06	franks	... and i just like to understand how and why this string/symbol/var mapping works...
12:07	TimMc	franks: doc is a macro, it expects a symbol literal.
12:08	TimMc	&(doc (quote reduce))
12:08	lazybot	java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.PersistentList cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Symbol
12:09	llasram	And the `print-doc' function form it uses internally is private, so I think you're out-of-luck when it comes to directly applying the clojure.repl code :-/
12:09	TimMc	You can get around that. :-)
12:09	llasram	(I mean, you could reach in and use the function anyway, but etc etc)
12:09	llasram	Yes yes :-p
12:11	semperos	I find it surprising how often I've found private core functions useful in my apps
12:12	TimMc	&(-> #'reduce meta (#'clojure.repl/print-doc))
12:12	lazybot	⇒ ------------------------- clojure.core/reduce ([f coll] [f val coll]) f should be a function of 2 arguments. If val is not supplied, returns the result of applying f to the first 2 items in coll, then applying f to that result and the 3rd item, etc. If coll con... https://refheap.com/paste/233
12:15	pandeiro	is there something i can use to iterate over two sequences at the same time?
12:17	TimMc	pandeiro: (map ... (map vector ...))
12:17	pandeiro	TimMc: thanks, i think for can do what i want but i've screwed it up somewhere
12:17	TimMc	Or hell, just (map f s1 s2)
12:18	TimMc	pandeiro: (for [x s1 y s2] ...) does a cartesian cross
12:18	pandeiro	TimMc: thanks, that was the issue... i glanced at the docstring but hadn't digested it
12:19	pandeiro	map is better in this case
12:19	pandeiro	it's weird using map to produce side effects
12:20	TimMc	&(doc doseq)
12:20	lazybot	⇒ "Macro ([seq-exprs & body]); Repeatedly executes body (presumably for side-effects) with bindings and filtering as provided by \"for\". Does not retain the head of the sequence. Returns nil."
12:20	pandeiro	TimMc: yeah but then I want the op to eval to true if it succeeds
12:21	pandeiro	so i am gonna use (every? #(not (nil? #)) (map ...))
12:21	llasram	What about `reduce' then?
12:22	TimMc	pandeiro: (every? identity ...)
12:22	pandeiro	TimMc: nice llasram: i admit my mind still has issues comprehending reduce well enough to use it
12:22	llasram	Oh, yeah, nm -- early abort
12:22	pandeiro	it would abort on the first nil?
12:22	llasram	every? would, yes
12:23	pandeiro	ok good that's what i want
12:23	TimMc	and the side effects from further iterations would not happen.
12:34	franks	,(let [s "reduce"] (eval (read-string (str "(doc " (with-out-str (print s)) ")"))))
12:34	clojurebot	#<Exception java.lang.Exception: SANBOX DENIED>
12:34	franks	ahh - kind mess with the bot's internals...
12:35	TimMc	franks: No need to do that. Just use the print-doc method.
12:49	franks	,(let [w "reduce"] (-> w symbol resolve meta (#'clojure.repl/print-doc)))
12:49	clojurebot	-------------------------
12:49	clojurebot	clojure.core/reduce
12:49	clojurebot	([f coll] [f val coll])
12:49	clojurebot	f should be a function of 2 arguments. If val is not supplied,
12:49	clojurebot	returns the result of applying f to the first 2 items in coll, then
12:49	clojurebot	applying f to that result and the 3rd item, etc. If coll contains no
12:49	clojurebot	items, f must accept no arguments as well, and reduce returns the
12:49	clojurebot	result of calling f with no arguments. If coll has on...
12:50	franks	TimMc: thanks for showing that trick how to invoke a private function.
12:50	franks	(although why are they called private again ? ;-) )
13:05	thoefer	guys with compiler-skills here >> PREDICT(X → ; P X) intersection PREDICT(X → eps) = what´s the result set of this?
13:11	amalloy	is this somehow tangentially related to clojure?
13:12	thoefer	absolutely not...
13:13	thoefer	I always believed that lisper´s love their language more than others... :)
13:15	tsdh	How do I get the Class object that int.class would return in Java?
13:18	clj_newb	(defrecord Animal [name age]) creates a java class "test.Animal" is there a way to attach meta deta to the test.Animal binding? basically I want somethign like (re-def test.Animal (with-meta test.Animal ...))
13:18	amalloy	&Integer/TYPE
13:18	lazybot	⇒ int
13:19	amalloy	&(instance? clojure.lang.IMeta java.lang.Class) ;; clj_newb
13:19	lazybot	⇒ false
13:19	amalloy	there is no place to put metadata
13:20	clj_newb	amalloy: brilliant
13:20	TimMc	Huh, defrecords don't get IMeta?
13:20	clj_newb	I want to attach meta deta to the _class_ that the defrecord generates, not instances
13:20	amalloy	TimMc: their instances do...
13:20	TimMc	Oh!
13:21	TimMc	clj_newb: If Clojure didn't define the class of the thing you want to attach metadata to, it ain't gonna support metadata.
13:22	clj_newb	TimMc: every day I get more and more disappointed that clojure is less magical and more clever engineering
13:22	duck1123	When using clj-http, am I right in thinking that using with-connection-pool with a timeout should cause my request to abort when it takes too long? I have some code that's checking a list of domains, and one domain in particular is just hanging for a long time
13:22	RickInGA	amalloy I am trying to run the &Integer/Type you wrote, could you put that in an s expression?
13:22	clj_newb	is inspector.clj used by anyone? it seems like a clever way to do a gui repl / debugger but I can
13:23	clj_newb	dig up tutorials on it on google
13:23	amalloy	&(Integer/TYPE) :P
13:23	lazybot	⇒ int
13:23	amalloy	probably the relevant point is that & is just there to wake up lazybot, not as part of the expression
13:23	RickInGA	wierd, I get Unable to resolve symbol & in this context
13:23	RickInGA	ah, ok :)
13:24	RickInGA	nice... thanks
13:24	solussd	what's the best way to redirect out to a file, if out is going to have too much written to it to store in memory in a string?
13:25	tsdh	amalloy: Ah, yes, that rings a bell. Thanks.
13:26	amalloy	(binding [out (clojure.java.io/writer (java.io.File. filename))] ...)?
13:26	amalloy	probably deserves a with-open in there as well
13:28	solussd	ah, that's what I want- same as clojure.io/make-writer?
13:28	solussd	*clojure.java.io/make-writer
13:32	jrgarcia	Is there a way to add a docstring to a defrecord? If not, why?
13:35	pjstadig	anyone want a job doing clojure at sonian?
13:36	amalloy	make-writer is rather lower-level, isn't it?
13:37	solussd	ah, yes.
13:37	amalloy	jrgarcia: please refer up about two pages in the scrollback, where it was discussed that classes do not support metadata, and then consider how docstrings are stored on functions
13:43	fliebel	Raynes: ping
13:43	Raynes	fliebel: Man, I didn't expect you to actually care enough to ping me. Go away. :p
13:44	fliebel	laughing out loud :)
13:45	Raynes	fliebel: So, in general, nothing is wrong with gist. The point of refheap is that we wanted something in Clojure, for Clojure, and we think that we can improve on existing pastebins.
13:46	Raynes	For example, we aren't storing pastes as git repositories, opting instead to implement the most important things that gist gains from that ourselves. It really isn't as much as you'd think. Revisions are the bigger thing, and they shouldn't take long either. We can add diffs on top of that later.
13:47	Raynes	But we also want to improve things in subtle ways. Paste something big and then click the 'maximize' link at the top right of the paste. That's a neat one that we really like.
13:48	Raynes	All of this is still in a fairly early state, but we've got some ideas to implement and try out. Check out the issues we have open on Github. The majority of them are possible/planned features and such.
13:48	fliebel	Raynes: okay, sounds like fun
13:48	Raynes	And to anybody else listening, the context of this discussion is "What's wrong with Gist [that made you guys write refheap]?"
13:49	fliebel	Raynes: Do you autodetect languages? I really like tha Gist does that, but hate how it's implemented.
13:49	Raynes	fliebel: No. The only reason gist can do it is because they have filenames. We don't have anything like that.
13:50	Raynes	Language autodetection without some obvious cue (like a file extension) is pretty hard.
13:50	fliebel	You never know for sure what it detected. It says it's based on the filename, but try pasting something without an extensions, it still figures out, most of the time.
13:51	Raynes	Really? I've never noticed before, I guess.
13:51	fliebel	Maybe I'm making things up.. let me try.
13:51	tmciver	Raynes: is refheap online somewhere?
13:51	Raynes	tmciver: The code or the website?
13:52	tmciver	website
13:52	Raynes	https://refheap.com
13:52	amalloy	gist does autodetect languages, but it's fairly primitive iirc
13:52	Raynes	Because it's haarrrdd.
13:53	amalloy	indeed. i think each language (of those that support autodetection) supplies a string or a regex or something: "if you search the contents of the gist and it contains this string, it's probably java"
13:54	carlos_	hi
13:54	carlos_	is there a way to use a default pair to a map?
13:54	carlos_	I would prefer this than using cond
13:55	Raynes	You can supply a default for 'not found' when you query the map: ##({:a 1} :b 2}
13:55	Raynes	Well.
13:55	Raynes	&({:a 1} :b 2})
13:55	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unmatched delimiter: }
13:55	Raynes	Damn it.
13:55	carlos_	haha :D
13:56	Raynes	&({:a 1} :b 2)
13:56	lazybot	⇒ 2
13:56	Raynes	Same with get: ##(get {:a 1} :b 2)
13:56	lazybot	⇒ 2
13:57	carlos_	Raynes, how would you supply the default value when querying? using if?
13:57	carlos_	it would be so nice if clojure support a don't care like the "_" inside maps
13:57	Raynes	In my above example, it's the last argument. The 2.
13:58	carlos_	Raynes, yes, but the :b is a match
13:59	joly	:b doesn't match any key in the map, so 2 is returned
13:59	carlos_	Raynes, joly, of course. sorry. thanks!
14:00	carlos_	this is quite cool! I can every condition in a map like some kind of discrete irregular function
14:28	clj_newb	with defrecord, is it also possible to declare class members, rather than just instance members?
14:29	TimMc	I don't think defrecord is meant for such things.
14:30	manutter	clj_newb: consider using namespaces for stuff like that: i.e. put your defrecord in a namespace by itself
14:30	manutter	then you can use namespace vars like class members
14:31	manutter	with the caveat that you might end up writing Java in clojure instead of writing clojure. :)
14:32	clj_newb	(thinking)
14:38	clj_newb	(resolved)
14:38	clj_newb	thanks :-)
14:39	manutter	:)
14:39	solussd	someone needs to write a native i/o library for clojure (I realize java 1.7 has one, but that doesn't help with 99% of installations out there
14:39	solussd	let me rephase that :) I'll write one unless someone points me at an existing one.
14:42	solussd	on a related note, has anyone used JTux?
14:45	manutter	what's JTux?
14:48	clj_newb	solussd: you know, clojure is also lacking a smalltalk-like debugger ....
14:48	solussd	;)
14:50	solussd	JTux is a "Java to Unix" library-- lets you make system calls, like chmod, from java
14:51	manutter	ah cool
15:46	tolstoy	Is JTux generally up to date?
15:47	jamiltron	Holy crap ClojureScript One looks amazing.
15:48	Raynes	I'm not sure I get it.
15:48	Raynes	It's good documentation with a bizarre and cutesy name?
15:50	jamiltron	That looks like the idea with a sample app. For me good documentation is one of the most exciting thing about any project.
15:50	jamiltron	Especially for me, being that I haven't really groked Clojurescript yet.
15:51	solussd	I should be able to (from the repl) run (import 'packagename.ClassName) to import a class that I have in a .class file in <lein_proj>/classes, right?
15:51	RickInGA	yeah, I am looking forward to working through those
15:51	dnolen	jamiltron: it's pretty cool, they've been working on it hard for a while.
15:54	TimMc	solussd: Sure, if it's on the classpath.
15:55	solussd	classes/ is on the classpath
15:58	TimMc	try-it-and-see!
16:02	vijaykiran
16:05	Raynes	dsantiago: ping
16:22	_carlos_	hi
16:23	nican	hi
16:23	_carlos_	&{1 "hi" 2 "bye"} 1
16:23	lazybot	⇒ {1 "hi", 2 "bye"}
16:24	_carlos_	&({1 "hi" 2 "bye"} 1)
16:24	lazybot	⇒ "hi"
16:24	bartj	/quit
16:26	_carlos_	I asked about one hour ago how to have a default value in a map, but I noticed the solution presented only worked if the keys were keywords. in this case they are integers. any idea?
16:26	_carlos_	&({1 "hi" 2 "bye"} 3)
16:26	lazybot	⇒ nil
16:26	_carlos_	I don't have this map to return nil, but to return some default value of my choice
16:27	jowag	&(get {1 "hi" 2 "bye"} 3 "default value")
16:27	lazybot	⇒ "default value"
16:27	jowag	^this
16:29	_carlos_	oh.. weird.. didn't work early. of course, it is my fault ^^"
16:30	_carlos_	*earlier
16:33	_carlos_	jowag: anyways, what is the reason for returning "default value"?
16:34	jowag	_carlos_: well you wanted to have something else instead of nil, if key is not found
16:34	Raynes	_carlos_: ##({:a nil} :a)
16:34	lazybot	⇒ nil
16:35	Raynes	How would you know if nil is the actual value of the key, or if the key wasn't found at all?
16:35	jowag	_carlos_: third argument in get is for specifying what clojure should return if key is not found
16:35	Raynes	In those cases, you'd have to be able to return something other than nil in the event of a not found.
16:35	jowag	,({nil nil} nil)
16:35	jowag	:)
16:35	clojurebot	nil
16:36	jowag	.(get {nil nil} nil :not-found)
16:36	jowag	,(get {nil nil} nil :not-found)
16:36	clojurebot	nil
16:36	_carlos_	&({1 "hi" 2 "bye"} 3 "default value")
16:36	lazybot	⇒ "default value"
16:36	_carlos_	so there is an implicit get here?
16:37	amalloy	_carlos_: not really. it doesn't hurt to think of it that way, though
16:38	TimMc	I'm sure get just calls the map's get method.
16:40	_carlos_	amalloy: it doesn't hurt in the I-believe-in-santa-claus way?
16:40	amalloy	yeah, more or less
16:41	jsabeaudry	I noticed that compojure will use 1 http packet per object when the body is a sequence. This comes with very high overhead for small objects. Is this a bug or the intended behavior?
16:46	nickmbailey	,(= Double/NaN Double/NaN)
16:46	clojurebot	false
16:46	nickmbailey	why is that ^
16:47	kephale	,(Double/isNaN Double/NaN)
16:47	clojurebot	true
16:48	blakesmith	,(.equals Double/NaN Double/NaN)
16:48	clojurebot	true
16:48	nickmbailey	blakesmith: right which is why i was wondering why the clojure version fails
16:49	nickmbailey	have a unit test that compares a vector that has NaN in it and the asserts are failing for that reason
16:54	amalloy	nickmbailey: it seems a bit off, to me, that java's Double.NaN compares as equal to itself, since the unboxed versions don't compare as == to each other
16:54	snamellit	IEEE-754 spec dictates that it should return false when they are compared. So clojure is doing the right thing (in as much there can be a right thing with these weird edge cases)
16:57	_carlos_	&(def p #({1 "hi" 2 "bye"} % "default value"))
16:57	lazybot	java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! def is bad!
16:57	_carlos_	hun?
16:57	_carlos_	def is awesome
16:57	amro	not for a bot
16:58	nickmbailey	http://docs.oracle.com/javase/1.4.2/docs/api/java/lang/Double.html#equals(java.lang.Object)
16:58	nickmbailey	the java impl special cases comparing NaN and NaN
16:58	nickmbailey	but at least I know why clojure is returning false
16:59	_carlos_	anyways, I just want to replace % with something that will make the usage of (p 1 2 3) return "hi""bye""default value"
17:03	nickmbailey	don't suppose there is already a version of '=' that handles NaN in contrib or something?
17:04	nickmbailey	well nvm, i'll just filter out the NaNs
17:08	devn	This is really, really great.
17:18	cgray	is this a bad idea: (defmacro ! [e & es] (if (empty? es) `(comp not ~e) `((comp not ~e) ~@es))) ?
17:20	brehaut	cgray: well, to start with, (complement f) = (comp not f)
17:20	cgray	ahh, good point
17:20	cgray	comp not is shorter to type though :)
17:21	amalloy	(def ! complement)
17:21	amalloy	DONE
17:21	cgray	boom
17:22	cgray	amalloy: ,(complement identity true)
17:23	cgray	it might be nice to say (! identity true)
17:23	cgray	that's the point of the macro
17:23	amalloy	i know it doesn't do what your macro did, but it shortens the horribly-long name of complement
17:23	cgray	i see
17:23	amalloy	i think that's a terrible idea, personally
17:23	amalloy	just write (! (identity true))
17:23	brehaut	cgray: have you looked at not= ?
17:24	cgray	brehaut: yeah, I know about not= I see (comp not) in a lot of places
18:17	mrevil	is it possible to upgrade to leiningen 2.0-snapshot yet?
18:25	mrevil	nvm, i just realized that there is a 1.x branch which is what i really nead
18:25	mrevil	need
18:29	geoffeg	does anyone know where i can get the slides for this talk? http://blip.tv/clojure/clojure-concurrency-819147
19:16	technomancy	mrevil: I hope to have a usable preview of leiningen 2.0 by clojurewest
19:56	seancorfield	anyone using clojure.data.json 0.1.2? i'm getting a puzzling exception and i don't know if it's the library or my environment
19:57	seancorfield	when i call read-json - with any argument - i get NoSuchMethodError: clojure.lang.Numbers.isNeg(I)Z
19:57	seancorfield	clojure 1.3.0
19:58	amalloy	mismatched clojure versions. something is AOT compiled against clojure 1.2 and you're running it on 1.3
19:59	seancorfield	hmm...
20:01	seancorfield	i don't believe i have anything AOT compiled
20:01	seancorfield	certainly nothing against clojure 1.2
20:01	amalloy	well, contrib is AOT-compiled. i'd check your classes/ or similar
20:02	seancorfield	i don't have a classes folder
20:04	amalloy	i dunno where the misbehaving class is, but that error message screams 1.2
20:05	amalloy	since isNeg made the transition along with everything else from int->long, and the method signature is isNeg(int) returning boolean
20:07	seancorfield	i agree with your reasoning... i'm just trying to think where an AOT 1.2 class could have come from...
20:07	seancorfield	hmm, a lein plugin perhaps?
20:07	amalloy	could be. i don't understand lein plugins
20:11	seancorfield	yup, either immutant or cljsbuild was the culprit
20:12	seancorfield	probably the latter since that was my most recent install
20:13	seancorfield	thanx amalloy
20:14	amalloy	welcome
20:45	_carlos_	anyone knows how to express % in terms of infinite arguments?
20:45	brehaut	,(#(prn %&) 1 2 3)
20:46	clojurebot	(1 2 3)
20:46	brehaut	in hindsight, not your question
20:47	_carlos_	brehaut: weird, didn't work with this one:
20:47	_carlos_	(def p #({1 "hi" 2 "bye"} %& "default value"))
20:49	brehaut	_carlos_: what doesnt work?
20:49	brehaut	it should always return "default value"
20:50	brehaut	%& is a always going to be a list (or list like thing) and your map only has int (or long) keys
20:50	_carlos_	brehaut: I want (p 1 2 3) to return "hi""bye""default value"
20:50	brehaut	_carlos_: then you want a map
20:51	brehaut	,(#(map {1 "h1" 2 "bye"} %&) 1 2 3)
20:51	clojurebot	("h1" "bye" nil)
20:57	_carlos_	,(#(map {1 "h1" 2 "bye"} %& "default value") 1 2 3)
20:57	clojurebot	("h1" "bye" \f)
20:58	_carlos_	haha, \f is the third character of "default".. random!
21:05	brehaut	_carlos_: map with multiple seqs is a zip
21:06	brehaut	,(map vector [1 2 3] [:a :b :c])
21:06	clojurebot	([1 :a] [2 :b] [3 :c])
21:06	brehaut	zip-with to be precise
21:07	brehaut	"default value" is an argument to the function 'map', not the map-literal {1 "hi" 2 "bye"}
21:10	alandipert	brehaut, you should update your excellent clj web stack post with cljs:one :-)
21:11	brehaut	alandipert: i want to do an update to all the latest versions of clojure and the libs, and also do one on noir
21:11	brehaut	alandipert: but yes, definately :)
21:11	alandipert	sweetness
21:11	alandipert	had a chance to play with it yet?
21:11	brehaut	clojurescript one ?
21:11	alandipert	yeah
21:12	brehaut	sadly no
21:12	brehaut	first day back in the office today, and a whole lot of holiday period crap to take care of first :(
21:12	alandipert	i hear you
21:13	Raynes	brehaut: If you need any help with the Noir post, let me know.
21:13	brehaut	Raynes: noted :)
21:13	Raynes	brehaut: Also, definitely*
21:13	brehaut	Raynes: thanks :P
21:13	Raynes	Are all New Zealanders illiterate or is it just you?
21:13	brehaut	im just lazy
21:13	Raynes	:p
21:14	brehaut	although, if you were to read our main online news site (stuff.co.nz), you would be forgiven for assuming that it's all of us
21:14	alandipert	Raynes, belated congrats on refheap
21:14	Raynes	alandipert: <3
21:18	Raynes	alandipert: Quick! Paste all of Relevance's secrets!
21:19	alandipert	the specific brand of stuart sierra's hair color is highly privileged info, i would never
21:19	Raynes	Psh.
21:19	Raynes	Probably splat!
21:20	alandipert	curses
21:20	alandipert	Raynes, doing cljwest?
21:25	brehaut	speaking of cljs:o ive already learnt some little tricks from reading the uberdoc
21:25	brehaut	(eg, html-parse to get around enlive's html-snippet discarding doctypes)
21:27	alandipert	i dig the whole macro/enlive collaboration, turned my no-eval frown upside down
21:28	alandipert	although now with enfocus there are other interesting possibilities
21:28	brehaut	alandipert: do you have some examples i can look at?
21:29	brehaut	(of the macro/enlive colab)
21:30	alandipert	src/lib/clj/one/templates.clj is enlive, and it's exposed via macro to cljs in src/app/cljs-macros/one/sample/snippets.clj
21:31	brehaut	huh. thats very clever
21:31	espringe	Is there a clojure equiv. of boost::multi_index? (It's a super awesome container class that provides 1 or more ways of accessing the data (by internally creating indexes)
21:32	espringe	e.g. you could have could have an inventory collection, and access it (efficiently) either via barcode or via price or via location
21:34	dnolen	espringe: nothing I know of that does that for you but could easily be done.
21:45	alandipert	brehaut, yeah it's wild. high-five brenton when you next see him
21:45	dsantiago	What does it mean when, for example, Daivd Nolen says on HN: "Note that they've extended (safely because of namespaces) browser natives including Element, Array, String, as well as the custom ClojureScript data types to respond to the color function."
21:45	brehaut	alandipert: if i make it to the states, i have a lot of high-fives to give out
21:45	dsantiago	What is Clojurescript doing there to extend the primitives safely?
21:47	alandipert	dsantiago, protocols atop javascript prototypes
21:47	dsantiago	I mean, is it actually modifying the prototype of Object or whatever?
21:49	dnolen	dsantiago: namespacing
21:49	dsantiago	Yes, I know namespacing. How does namespacing help if you're modifying Object?
21:49	dnolen	dsantiago: String.prototype.cljs.core$first = ...
21:50	dnolen	dsantiago: Object.prototype.com.dsantiago$foo = ...
21:50	dnolen	oops that should be, String.prototype.cljs$core$first, but you get the idea
21:51	brehaut	dnolen: are those namespaces nested objects, or just strings?
21:51	dnolen	brehaut: sorry, it's not nested objects, just properties w/ munged names created by the compiler
21:52	brehaut	dnolen: thanks. that makes sense
21:53	dsantiago	OK, thanks dnolen.
21:55	dnolen	brehaut: dsantiago: it's simple really. Actually I think Dart adopts a similar approach w/ interfaces, but I don't think it supports anything like extend-type
21:55	dsantiago	Yeah, I see how it works now. I thought you were saying that it was making defensive copies of the prototype for each namespace, or something, and I wasn't sure how that would work.
21:56	dnolen	dsantiago: nope very simple and efficient and optimizable by Google Closure
21:56	dsantiago	Does that break for…in?
21:57	brehaut	dsantiago: no more than anything on a prototype
22:00	dsantiago	My buddy who works on Closure is concerned because Closure itself does still use for..in in certain places, and he finds it worrisome.
22:02	dsantiago	Fortunately, I don't think there's ever anything that forces you to extend browser primitives this way.
22:02	dnolen	dsantiago: I don't see why for..in is a problem ever
22:02	dnolen	in anycase sounds like an anti-pattern in ClojureScript
22:03	dnolen	in JS makes sense for some wretched runtime metaprogramming
22:03	dsantiago	It perhaps requires a footnote.
22:04	y3di	has anyone in here installed leiningen in windows before?
22:04	dnolen	dsantiago: why? you never know what you're going to get when iterating properties not even across browsers.
22:08	dsantiago	Yeah, I don't know if this is something that can cause an actual problem or not.
22:09	notostraca	y3di, yes
22:09	notostraca	lein.bat
22:09	JohnnyL	what s good web framework for clojure and is it mature enough to use on a wxp box?
22:10	brehaut	JohnnyL: thats a complicated question
22:10	scottj	JohnnyL: noir is the most popular these days
22:10	brehaut	noir is the library that most represents a framework
22:10	brehaut	s/represents/resembles/
22:10	scottj	well conjure might win there :)
22:11	brehaut	ssh
22:11	seancorfield	or FW/1 (framework one)
22:11	seancorfield	:)
22:11	brehaut	JohnnyL: do you know about ring yet?
22:12	seancorfield	noir is definitely the best documented and most popular right now tho'
22:12	brehaut	seancorfield: clojurescript:one is giving it a run for its money ;)
22:12	JohnnyL	brehaut: i'm a clojure newb. :)
22:12	brehaut	(for docs at least)
22:13	brehaut	JohnnyL: ring is the foundation of all (well, most) of http / web stuff in clojure. you want to learn about it at some point. it abstracts http to a clojure interface
22:13	seancorfield	i plan to look at clojurescript:one "real soon now" but mostly to see how i can leverage the ideas into FW/1 since that already uses Enlive on the server side
22:15	JohnnyL	brehaut: thanks.
22:15	JohnnyL	thanks guys.
22:18	seancorfield	dumb repl Q: how do i delete / remove a var i no longer want?
22:19	brehaut	seancorfield: ns-unmap i believe
22:20	seancorfield	thx
22:21	seancorfield	yup, that worked brehaut !
22:23	ckirkendall	is anyone else getting an exception when they try to run clojureone
22:23	ckirkendall	sorry clojurescript one
22:25	alandipert	ckirkendall, no - what are you seeing?
22:25	ckirkendall	ClassNotFoundException com.google.common.collect.ImmutableList java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run (URLClassLoader.java:202)
22:25	y3di	when i try to run script/deps it just says the command is not recognized. i might be doing something wrong since im using windows
22:26	ckirkendall	alandipert: I am running ubuntu
22:26	alandipert	y3di, no windows dev support - yet
22:27	y3di	ah
22:27	f3f	Any soul (besides hugod) ever wrote Maven plugins (Mojos) in Clojure ?
22:28	alandipert	ckirkendall, which jdk?
22:28	cmwelsh	how new is closurescript:one? I just read an article about it this evening
22:28	f3f	I see hugod did all the heavy-lifting for https://github.com/pallet/zi. I'm just asking if there's anybody else doing Mojos in Clojure
22:28	alandipert	cmwelsh, released today
22:29	ckirkendall	Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.6.0_22-b04)
22:30	alandipert	ckirkendall, this happens when you script/run?
22:30	ckirkendall	yep and dumps me into a repl
22:30	ckirkendall	but no running server
22:31	alandipert	ckirkendall, hm. have not seen before and can't reproduce (on debian). mind filing a ticket? stack trace and platform details helpful
22:31	ckirkendall	alandipert: by the way I spent the last few hours reading through the code and I am beyond impressed
22:32	ckirkendall	will do
22:32	alandipert	ckirkendall, thanks i'll pass it on. brenton made it, i just use the thing :-)
22:36	cmwelsh	the site and the documentation page are built using closurescript:one?
22:36	cmwelsh	or is it closurescript one
22:37	alandipert	cmwelsh, docs built with marginalia
22:37	alandipert	(with custom theme)
22:45	f3f	hey, this clojurescript:one smells really good
22:59	jyaan	How can I keep up with the clojure-contrib 1.3 version for leiningen? It was 1.3.0-SNAPSHOT, then 1.3.0-alpha4, and now it's broken again. Does anyone have a link?
23:00	jyaan	Well, perhaps I should say "I don't know" rather than "it's broken"
23:01	bbhoss	Is this the proper place to ask about Clojurescript One? I'm having some trouble getting chrome to connect to the development REPL.
23:03	dnolen	bbhoss: how are you starting the repl?
23:03	bbhoss	dnolen: script/run then doing (cljs-repl)
23:04	bbhoss	it seems to work in firefox though, it's just chrome with the issue
23:05	bbhoss	NM, seems to be working now, odd
23:05	dnolen	bbhoss: sometimes you need to refresh the browser
23:05	bbhoss	dnolen: yeah, I did that but I guess I didn't do it enough :)
23:06	dnolen	bbhoss: cljs repl can be slow to start sometimes, and the connection method is less than stellar
23:06	bbhoss	dnolen: what does it use?
23:07	dnolen	bbhoss: hopefully someone will add websocket support for modern browsers
23:07	bbhoss	thats what I was wondering
23:07	dnolen	bbhoss: google cross page channel, since that works in every browser
23:07	bbhoss	interesting
23:07	Raynes	alandipert: Doesn't look like it.
23:08	bbhoss	can I use TextMate to develop things with clojurescript one/cljs or should I just use emacs
23:08	dnolen	bbhoss: I tried making TextMate work for Clojure, but TextMate is just awful for REPL centric development
23:09	bbhoss	yeah that's what I figured, how do you use it with emacs?
23:09	dnolen	bbhoss: Emacs, Vim, Eclipse, Clooj all provide nicer experiences IMO
23:09	jyaan	You have to install clojure-mode
23:09	bbhoss	I'm familiar with emacs, just more familiar with TM, but it sounds like I should be using emacs
23:09	Raynes	dnolen: Check out SublimeREPL. Not all that useful, but it's a start.
23:09	brehaut	i second ditching TM
23:09	Raynes	Also not textmate, but close enough.
23:09	brehaut	(for clojure)
23:09	jyaan	It's really easy with leiningen
23:09	bbhoss	jyaan: is that in the emacs package manager?
23:10	jyaan	yes
23:10	dnolen	bbhoss: (setq inferior-lisp-mode "path/to/repl/script") in .emacs, then M-x run-lisp
23:10	jyaan	wait, leiningen or clojure-mode
23:10	Raynes	Marmalade.
23:10	dnolen	bbhoss: then you can just interact with the browser right from the text editor on the fly.
23:10	alandipert	dnolen, you think websocket would make repl noticeably faster?
23:10	dnolen	gotta run
23:10	Raynes	Guys. 50 different things at once is less helpful.
23:10	bbhoss	I have leiningen, not really sure what it does though jyaan
23:10	jyaan	haha
23:10	jyaan	it's for project management, basically
23:11	dnolen	alandipert: pretty darn sure, my node.js repl screams compared to browser repl
23:11	dnolen	l8r
23:11	alandipert	dnolen, don't agree but haven't measured ;-)
23:11	alandipert	ciao
23:11	bbhoss	jyaan: how does lein relate to what I'm trying to do here?
23:12	jyaan	it has a plugin called "swank-clojure", it handles all the details of starting up slime for you
23:12	jyaan	which is what pretty much everyone uses w/ emacs
23:12	bbhoss	ok, I will look at that then
23:13	brehaut	bbhoss: leiningen is the user interface to clojure; it provides (for a beginner any) command line tools (run, repl, build), and dependancy resolution
23:14	jyaan	bbhoss: are you familiar with emacs already?
23:14	bbhoss	jyaan: a little bit, I know the basics
23:16	jyaan	well, first you need to get clojure-mode in your load-path
23:16	jonasen	https://refheap.com/paste/240
23:16	jonasen	^ has anyone seen a similar error when trying ClojureScript One?
23:17	bbhoss	jyaan: ok, I will do that, I assume I need to play around with my .emacs file to do that, or do I just need to install the package
23:17	bbhoss	or what do you recommend to get started with, I don't really have Emacs setup
23:17	jyaan	then if you put :dev-dependencies [[swank-clojure "1.4.0-SNAPSHOT"]] in your project.clj, all you have to do from Emacs is just do M-x clojure-jack in
23:18	jyaan	1.4.0-snapshot has slime packaged so you don't have to install anything except emacs with clojure-mode and leiningen
23:19	jyaan	before 1.4.0-snapshot you need to add a few more lines of elisp code to your .emacs
23:21	jyaan	are you on a unix-like system or windows
23:21	bbhoss	os x
23:21	jyaan	ok that makes it easier
23:21	bbhoss	:)
23:22	bbhoss	I've tried some starter kits before, but I can never get the things to work right and give up
23:22	jyaan	what a lot of ppl do (myself included) is make a lib folder in your ~/.emacs.d folder
23:22	jyaan	Well on OSX I use Aquamacs
23:22	jyaan	On others I use GNUEmacs (actually I like it better)
23:22	bbhoss	jyaan: did that update it to 24 yet?
23:22	bbhoss	aqua
23:23	jyaan	Not sure
23:23	alandipert	jonasen, which browser?
23:23	brehaut	emacsforosx.com/
23:23	jyaan	I think they are still on 23 but i could be wrong
23:23	jyaan	yea they're based on 23.3
23:23	Raynes	bbhoss, jyaan: There are builds there for 24.
23:23	Raynes	Get them.
23:23	Raynes	They work fine.
23:24	brehaut	^ that url has builds of 24 for os x and its 'real' emacs rather than a diversion like aquamacs
23:24	bbhoss	yeah I've used both
23:24	bbhoss	Actually I already have 24.0.91.1 installed
23:25	jyaan	well anayways, you just need to extract clojure-mode into ~/.emacs.d/lib or something, and put (add-to-list 'load-path "~/.emacs.d/lib/clojure-mode") in your .emacs
23:25	bbhoss	So I have ELPA, but it doesnt look like clojure-mode is installed
23:25	jyaan	then put (require 'clojure-mode)
23:25	bbhoss	ok
23:25	jyaan	that's really about it
23:25	jyaan	yea or do the package way
23:25	jyaan	I don't use package.el myself though
23:26	Raynes	You don't need (require 'clojure-mode) after installing it from elpa.
23:26	Raynes	M-x package-install RET clojure-mode
23:26	bbhoss	Raynes: it doesn't look like it shows up in list-packages
23:26	jyaan	yea that's why I said "or teh package way"
23:27	Raynes	You don't have marmalade set up.
23:27	jyaan	i was talknig about just doing it manually
23:27	Raynes	(add-to-list 'package-archives '("marmalade" . "http://marmalade-repo.org/packages/"))
23:27	Raynes	bbhoss: ^ Add that to your .emacs (or init.el or whatever you use).
23:27	bbhoss	Raynes: init.el is run if it exists inside of emacs.d right?
23:28	Raynes	Yes.
23:28	jyaan	yes, and you should prefer that instead IMO
23:28	Raynes	Place your cursor after the last paren and do C-x C-e and it will evaluate it. After that, try again. You don't have to restart emacs.
23:28	jyaan	you should structure your elisp files like any other project
23:28	Raynes	Let's get clojure-mode installed first
23:29	bbhoss	Raynes: do I need to update the package list? It still says not found
23:29	Raynes	Yes.
23:29	jonasen	alandipert: chrome
23:30	bitpimp	alandipert: greetings
23:30	bitpimp	you know it
23:30	alandipert	bitpimp, ahoy
23:32	alandipert	jonasen, hm, that is mysterious. there's always the cargo cult of browser refresh
23:32	bbhoss	ok, clojure-mode appears to have installed, now what?
23:33	jyaan	you said you have lein right
23:33	bbhoss	yep it's installed
23:33	bbhoss	FYI I am playing with this clojurescript one thing I saw on HN, not sure if you've seen it
23:33	bbhoss	it seems somewhat opinionated
23:33	jonasen	alandipert: No luck with browser refresh, same error.
23:34	jyaan	Ok so you go to somewhere like ~/Projects and run "lein new PROJECTNAME" in a terminal
23:34	alandipert	jonasen, mind making a ticket with platform/version details? 'tis a strange one
23:35	bbhoss	jyaan: ok it looks like this project already has it setup with a project.clj etc
23:35	jyaan	then just add :dev-dependencies [[swank-clojure "1.4.0-SNAPSHOT"]]
23:35	jyaan	yes you get a default layout
23:35	bbhoss	jyaan: add that where?
23:35	Raynes	You don't need that added to dev-dependencies.
23:35	jyaan	project.clj
23:35	Raynes	'lein plugin install swank-clojure 1.3.3'
23:36	jyaan	that way you have to run "lein swank"
23:36	jyaan	either is fine
23:36	jyaan	latest swank-clojure you can do clojure-jack-in which is apparently preffered
23:36	jonasen	sure. I'm afraid it has something to do with character encodings. I've had problems with that before when using clojurescript
23:36	jonasen	alandipert: ^
23:37	Raynes	jyaan: You can do clojure-jack-in with 1.3.3
23:37	jyaan	Oh my mistake then
23:37	alandipert	jonasen, could be... the server-side of the repl might have funky encoding headers
23:38	alandipert	jonasen, you see the same behavior in other browsers?
23:38	Raynes	Firefox to the rescue!
23:40	bbhoss	jyaan: I added that to project.clj, this is what it looks like now: https://gist.github.com/c087b133deefe0bfe7be, but it generates a backtrace when I try to run script/deps which I think is supposed to update your deps
23:41	jonasen	alandipert: similar error in firefox
23:41	bbhoss	jyaan: backtrace appears to be unrelated
23:42	alandipert	jonasen, does the app work when you compile with script/build?
23:42	jyaan	Should probably start with just Clojure to make sure things are set up correctly
23:42	bbhoss	exception: https://gist.github.com/b43615e5887247cd06c5
23:43	bbhoss	ok
23:43	Raynes	jonasen: Oh em gee, you used refheap!
23:43	Raynes	jonasen: We should totally be friends.
23:44	jonasen	alandipert: it says [build complete]. No repl. How do I test it?
23:44	jyaan	I believe that exception means KeywordLookupSite got the wrong constructor call, if that means anything to you -- doesn't to me unfortunately
23:44	jonasen	Raynes: heh. I created a gist, then changed my mind.
23:45	Raynes	Good.
23:45	jyaan	Or rather that there is no constructor matching the parameters it was called with
23:45	jyaan	Anyways let's just get the basics working and we can go from there
23:45	bbhoss	jyaan: alright I got a basic project setup with lein new, and pulled down swank with lein deps
23:45	alandipert	jonasen, not sure, it's not building for me ;-)
23:46	alandipert	jonasen, last it worked you could open the generated index.html
23:46	Raynes	The first step to our success is to make people feel guilty when they create a Clojure-related gist.
23:46	jyaan	ok if it worked you should be able to enter 'M-x clojure-jack-in' from Emacs
23:46	alandipert	jonasen, sleep-time for me though, please do create a ticket
23:46	jyaan	And after some loading it will give a REPL
23:46	bbhoss	jyaan: do I need the project dired or project.clj loaded?
23:46	Raynes	You have to actually be editing a file in that project though.
23:47	jyaan	Right
23:47	jyaan	Yea you have to
23:47	Raynes	Also, like I said, you don't have to add swank-clojure to every project. You can do `lein plugin install swank-clojure 1.3.3` and it'll be available for all projects you use, now and forever.
23:48	jyaan	Yea it's worth doing if you know you'll be using the plugin all the time
23:48	bbhoss	alright, I have swank running
23:48	jonasen	alandipert: I'll create a ticket. (later, work-time form me...)
23:49	alandipert	jonasen, thanks!
23:49	jyaan	Alright great
23:49	bbhoss	so it split the buffer into two windows, one repl and one code, I assume I eval the code above or something?
23:49	jyaan	Yea you can also load the entire buffer
23:50	jyaan	And you can use that code in the REPL
23:50	bbhoss	How do I go about doing that?
23:50	jyaan	There should be a slime tab
23:51	jyaan	you can do C-h x C-c C-r
23:51	bbhoss	well it split into two "windows"
23:51	jyaan	to select all and then evaluate region
23:51	jyaan	Yes but that buffer is linked to the repl
23:52	jyaan	if you evaluate in the buffer the repl "knows" about it
23:52	jyaan	so if you put a function definition in the buffer and run C-x C-e at the last paren of it, you'll be able to run it in the slime repl
23:53	jyaan	or C-h x then C-c C-r to load the whole buffer
23:53	jyaan	I think there might be anotehr, shorter, one for that
23:55	bbhoss	jyaan: I restarted emacs and it gives me an error in init.el: https://gist.github.com/aaa75b0b36a7dbfa8b9b
23:55	bbhoss	if I go into the file ane C-x C-e it evals fine
23:56	jyaan	let's see the init.el
23:56	jyaan	ohh
23:56	jyaan	wait
23:56	bbhoss	(add-to-list 'package-archives '("marmalade" . "http://marmalade-repo.org/packages/")) is all
23:56	jyaan	yes
23:57	jyaan	haha beat me to it
23:57	jyaan	you forgot to add that too
23:57	jyaan	I suppose we didn't mention that you had to save it, though, did we? :P
23:57	bbhoss	No, I saved what I had, what am I missing?
23:59	jyaan	yea hm i guess you got an error running the (add-to-list...
23:59	jyaan	well i still need to see the file then