#clojure – 2011-12-23

2011-12-23

00:22	GeoffSK	clojure.data.json - what is the best way to included it in a project (leiningen) ?
00:31	nickmbailey	follow the instructions here: https://github.com/clojure/data.json
00:33	GeoffSK	thanks, but where do i find my pom.xml? I didn't realise i had one.
00:33	GeoffSK	oops sorry
00:33	ibdknox	GeoffSK: you just need to add this to your project.clj: [org.clojure/data.json "0.1.1"]
00:34	ibdknox	then do lein deps
00:36	GeoffSK	shouldn't (use 'clojure.data.json) work at the repl?
00:36	nickmbailey	it will work after you added it to your project.clj and then ran 'lein deps'
00:38	GeoffSK	yep works thanks. clooj doesn't always seem to respond after doing a lein deps.
00:38	Raynes	amalloy: Hi.
00:38	nickmbailey	hmm haven't used clooj
00:39	GeoffSK	pretty limited dedicated clojure editor
02:07	devn	it has promise
02:07	devn	i hope they continue to expand it
04:33	tsdh	How can I fire up a SLIME REPL in clojure itself? M-x clojure-jack-in relies on an existing project.clj...
04:33	sandy1986	tsdh: simply start clojure.jar with java?
04:34	tsdh	sandy1986: That gives me a REPL at the console, but not in emacs.
04:34	sandy1986	ahhh okay, I do not use emacs
04:34	G0SUB	tsdh: you can use swank-clojure to start a swank server. emacs can then connect to it.
04:36	tsdh	G0SUB: How would I do so? Or the other way round, it's probably easier to create a project.clj with no deps and stuff, isn't it?
04:36	G0SUB	tsdh: take a look at the embedding section in here - https://github.com/technomancy/swank-clojure
04:37	tsdh	G0SUB: Thanks.
04:37	G0SUB	tsdh: you are welcome
04:41	Raynes	I'm not sure how useful a SLIME repl is without an associated project.
04:48	tsdh	Raynes: Well, the project is clojure.
04:50	G0SUB	Raynes: he is just not using Lein.
04:53	sandy1986	How to read the json string from a request? (JSON & HTTP_POST)
04:55	tsdh	G0SUB, Raynes: Not "he", clojure itself is just not using leiningen. ;-)
04:55	G0SUB	tsdh: true ;-)
05:40	sandy1986	Mhhh, JQuery + Json drive me insane
05:43	Raynes	cemerick: Surely you're not up this early.
05:43	cemerick	I'm up at 5 most mornings.
05:43	Raynes	Man.
05:43	Raynes	Get off my lawn.
05:44	cemerick	Surely you're not still up this late.
05:44	Raynes	I woke up at 11PM.
05:44	cemerick	I don't even know what to say to that.
05:45	Raynes	"Get a life." is appropriate.
05:45	cemerick	Hrm. Might be a little harsh.
05:46	G0SUB	cemerick
05:49	cemerick	G0SUB: Hi! :-)
05:49	G0SUB	cemerick: how's business?
05:49	Raynes	G0SUB: You took some amazingly unflattering pictures of me at the Conj. We are no longer friends.
05:50	cemerick	We'll find out in the next month or so. Probably 50% of revenues are in January.
05:50	G0SUB	Raynes: oh, that was entirely unintentional :-P
05:50	G0SUB	cemerick: cool
05:50	Raynes	:p
05:50	G0SUB	Raynes: next time, you tell me which angle to pick. Ok?
05:51	Raynes	The one where my manboobs aren't showing.
05:51	cemerick	G0SUB: as a corollary, selling software sucks.
05:51	G0SUB	Raynes: haha. I will airbrush those out if they come into the frame next time.
05:52	Raynes	Excellent.
05:52	G0SUB	cemerick: get someone else to do that.
05:54	cemerick	G0SUB: Can't outsource customer contact. It's the most valuable commodity.
05:54	cemerick	Nah, I just need to flip the switch on a different business model.
05:55	G0SUB	cemerick: get a non-technical co-founder.
05:55	G0SUB	cemerick: you hack, he hustles.
05:56	cemerick	it'd probably be the other way around :-P
05:56	G0SUB	:-P
05:57	Vinzent	if I compile cljs file like this $ cljsc src/repl/test.cljs '{:optimizations :simple}' then I'm getting pretty long js code, but if I omitted optimizations part, get only couple of goog.addDependency calls
05:57	Vinzent	what could be the problem?
05:57	cemerick	G0SUB: How are you guys doing?
05:57	G0SUB	Vinzent: that's right. there is no problem with that.
05:57	G0SUB	cemerick: launch imminent.
05:58	Vinzent	G0SUB, really? So I always have to compile with optimizations?
05:58	G0SUB	Vinzent: your production code should be compiled in advanced mode. for dev, you can leave it off.
05:59	G0SUB	Vinzent: when in no optimization mode, remember to include goog/base.js. you don't need that in simple or advanced.
05:59	G0SUB	Vinzent: everything else should just work
06:00	cemerick	G0SUB: Stellar. Go get 'em. :-)
06:00	G0SUB	cemerick: PM?
06:00	cemerick	sure
06:01	G0SUB	apparently I can't do PM in Adium.
06:01	G0SUB	wtf
06:02	cemerick	irc through adium?
06:02	G0SUB	cemerick: temporary arrangement
06:02	Vinzent	G0SUB, indeed, it works. Thank you.
06:03	Blkt	good day everyone
06:03	G0SUB	Vinzent: go and hack some Cljs!
06:07	Vinzent	G0SUB, hah, right :) but I'm still setting up my dev env, can you advise me something else what I should use?
06:08	G0SUB	Vinzent: browser-repl.
06:08	Vinzent	ibdknox's one?
06:09	Vinzent	As I understand, it's a standalone repl, and I use emacs
06:09	G0SUB	Vinzent: no. it's in cljs core now.
06:10	G0SUB	Vinzent: https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/wiki/Emacs-%26-inferior-lisp-mode
06:10	G0SUB	Vinzent: https://github.com/clojure/clojurescript/wiki/The-REPL-and-Evaluation-Environments
06:10	Vinzent	ah, yeah, I use it already
06:11	Vinzent	https://github.com/ibdknox/cljs-watch this one seems useful too
06:11	G0SUB	Vinzent: yes, it's great. but it can't handle no-optimization mode. it does either simple or advanced.
06:12	G0SUB	Vinzent: use my fork if you want to use cljs-watch with no optimizations - https://github.com/ghoseb/cljs-watch
06:13	Vinzent	G0SUB, great, thanks, I'll check it out!
06:14	G0SUB	Vinzent: I haven't fixed the shell script, just the code. so fix the shell script accordingly, please.
06:15	Vinzent	ok
06:17	Vinzent	by the way, why there is no lein plugin for that? lein cljs install, lein cljs repl and lein cljs watch would be much nicer than a bunch of shell scripts
06:17	G0SUB	Vinzent: those things should exist. just not right now.
06:18	Vinzent	I see - cljs even have not been released yet
06:20	tsdh	On JIRA, is there no way to get a listing of all issues where I have done something? I tried searching for Tassilo with [x] for Summary, Description, Comments, and Environment, selected "Any project" and "Any" type of issue, but I only get empty results...
06:33	tsdh	Hm, what's the right way to close a JIRA issue that's actually a non-issue, i.e., the reported bug is no bug at all but a misunderstanding on the reporter's side?
06:34	tsdh	Neither Completed, Declined, nor Duplicate seem appropriate. And what should I specify as Fix versions when there's no fix. Empty, I guess?
06:35	CmdrDats	tsdh: it depends on what you've adopted as 'the right way', for me it would be to assign the task to the reporter with a comment, then have them resolve/close it as 'won't fix'
06:36	tsdh	CmdrDats: The reporter is the assembla importer. ;-)
06:39	CmdrDats	tsdh: ah :)
08:50	elricl	Hello
08:51	elricl	Is there a way to control the heap size a clojure script?
08:51	elricl	Something similar to -Xmx64m for clojure?
08:53	pyr	elricl: -Xmx64m
08:53	pyr	any option you pass to the jvm
08:53	pyr	will be applied
08:54	elricl	I run my files as clojure xx.clj
08:54	pyr	ok
08:54	pyr	clojure is probably a shell script
08:54	pyr	and probably knows about env variables such as JAVA_OPTS or JAVA_OPTIONS
08:59	`fogus	Has anyone written a node-connected REPL for ClojureScript?
09:26	ambrosebs	how can I get a seq of all classes defined in the java.lang.* namespace?
09:28	rallie	(java.lang)
09:29	rallie	sorry, that was meant for a repl
09:30	ambrosebs	I'm trying to get a seq of all the implicit imports in a clojure namespace, which I believe is just java.lang.*
09:33	ambrosebs	perhaps an easier problem would be to work out which classes clojure.core imports
09:42	ambrosebs	,(into {} (filter #(re-seq #"java.lang.*" (str (val %))) (ns-imports 'clojure.core)))
09:42	clojurebot	{ProcessBuilder java.lang.ProcessBuilder, Enum java.lang.Enum, SuppressWarnings java.lang.SuppressWarnings, Throwable java.lang.Throwable, InterruptedException java.lang.InterruptedException, ...}
09:42	ambrosebs	seems to work
10:08	ambrosebs	is :exclude the only valid :refer-clojure option?
10:19	jodaro	ambrosebs: looks like refer takes :exclude, :only and :rename
10:20	ambrosebs	jodaro: where'd you find that out?
10:20	Raynes	ambrosebs: Documentation, I imagine.
10:20	ambrosebs	oh right, refer's docs
10:21	Raynes	Clojure has these cool docstring thingies.
11:14	tmarble	O
11:14	tmarble	I'm stuck with a simple routing question in Noir... keep getting "Key must be integer" from compojure...
11:15	tmarble	This is a very simple app based on noir:jar:1.2.2-SNAPSHOT
11:15	tmarble	I can't seem to construct the form: (defpage user [:get "/user/:id"] {id :id}
11:16	tmarble	w/o getting a stack trace??
11:16	lazybot	tmarble: Definitely not.
11:18	TimMc	Christ, I've got about a 5 second latency. I feel like brehaut.
11:18	TimMc	Stupid train wireless.
11:25	Raynes	tmarble: If there isn't a stacktrace then how are you seeing that error in the first place?
11:26	tmarble	Raynes: sorry, I mean I cannot reformulate it without a stack trace => I'm getting one every time
11:26	Raynes	tmarble: The problem is probably the 'user' bit there.
11:26	Raynes	(defpage "/user/:id" {id :id} ..)
11:26	Raynes	tmarble: Try that.
11:27	Raynes	It defaults to a GET request.
11:27	Raynes	So no need to specify the method.
11:27	tmarble	right.. tried that.. same result
11:28	Raynes	Can you paste the whole defpage along with the stacktrace?
11:28	Raynes	On gist.github.com.
11:28	tmarble	right, hold on
11:32	tmarble	Raynes: please see https://gist.github.com/1514675
11:32	Raynes	I see the problem.
11:33	Raynes	tmarble: That vector wont work. The defpage has to return a string. You can generate an HTML string from that [:div ..] vector using hiccup.core/html, or by creating a defpartial as explained here: http://webnoir.org/tutorials/html
11:34	Raynes	Well, a string or a map. In this case you just want to return a string. Compojure sees that it isn't a string and assumes it is a map, and thus when it tries to work with the map, it fails with your vague exception.
11:40	tmarble	Rayne: thanks! removing the hiccup stuff worked (using it within (html ...) has some ns error ... looking now)
11:40	tmarble	Raynes ^
11:50	tmarble	Raynes: ok, my mistake was in expanding the example on http://webnoir.org/tutorials/routes to use just hiccup (thus resulting in the behavior you describe)
11:51	tmarble	when the other tutorial examples are wrapped in (common/layout ....) or (common/site-layout ... )
11:51	tmarble	which, themselves, call (html5 ... content)
11:57	triyo	I'm a bit baffled as to what approach to take when introducing configuration to my clojure application.
11:58	triyo	My requirements are as follows. I have an entry point -main that receives command arguments
11:59	triyo	The top-level of the app is an web application (ring) that has some routes and handlers. The handlers call some namespace that contains persistence level logic that performs the db side effects.
12:01	triyo	Question is, what approach do I take, for instance, to pass environment-specific db connection info?
12:02	triyo	In a simple functional approach, I could have all my functions down the abstraction take a config argument..
12:02	triyo	But this of course has its own drawbacks
12:03	triyo	I could maybe go for some sort of a macro like with-config... But how will this work through different layers?
12:10	triyo	I see Chas wrote some cool post on this topic not so long ago: http://cemerick.com/2011/10/17/a-la-carte-configuration-in-clojure-apis/
12:10	tolstoy	Is there a handy unsigned-bit-shift-right floating around anywhere, written in Clojure?
12:10	tscheibl	triyo: you could create the macro "with-config" which binds the config to a thread local var using binding
12:12	triyo	tscheibl: could you please refresh my memory. Can a `binding` be performed so that it binds over multiple namespaces in the call stack?
12:12	tscheibl	triyo: to "transfer" the binding to your ring handler you will have to introduce a middleware that uses bound-fn
12:13	tscheibl	triyo: the bound var will stay in it'S namespace
12:13	tscheibl	its
12:13	triyo	So thats the first hurdle. Thanks. But then to transfer from handler to else where, do I have to do it explicitly with an with- type macro?
12:13	triyo	Well thought as much
12:14	tscheibl	triyo: use bound-fn
12:14	triyo	thats the uglish part if I may say.
12:14	triyo	Ok I'll have a loo at bound-fn
12:14	tscheibl	i did it that way first
12:14	tscheibl	but
12:15	tscheibl	in a single web-app there will normally be only one config for the whole app... so you can omit the with-config part
12:15	tscheibl	what I do now...
12:16	tscheibl	..is to read the config into an atom defiined like (def (atom nil))
12:17	tscheibl	and read in like: (reset! config (read-string (slurp (file-or-resource (System/getProperty "backoffice.config")))))
12:18	tscheibl	you see I use a Java system property to configure the config path outside .. in this case backoffice.config
12:18	tscheibl	file-or resource is defined like: (defn file-or-resource [path] (or (io/resource path) (io/file path)))
12:18	tscheibl	so I can use it either standalone or in a Servlet context
12:19	triyo	Hmm, if I go that route, I need to make sure it loads the file only once for when the process starts.
12:19	tscheibl	yes
12:20	tscheibl	i define a function (load-config!) which is executed from the startup code
12:20	triyo	app is a rest service that is gonna be under considerable fire so need to minimize loacl fs and db IO as much as possible ...
12:21	tscheibl	... of course you could change the config at runtime since it is an atom and use watchers to notify ore app of the change
12:21	tscheibl	just call (load-config) again to do that
12:21	triyo	Thanks for that last tip on watchers... that could be useful so no surprising side effect
12:21	triyo	*s
12:22	triyo	So you load the .conf file in to a atom right?
12:22	triyo	And atom will be bound to only a single ns right?
12:23	triyo	If thats true, I'd have to call load-config in each ns where appropriate right? Would this be on each web request though?
12:24	tscheibl	no
12:24	cemerick	triyo: Note that what I describe there is not what I eventually settled on in clutch.
12:25	tscheibl	u include the config with (ns ... (:use [....config :only [config]]))
12:25	tscheibl	and refer to it as config
12:25	triyo	cemerick: Thanks, noted.
12:25	cemerick	If you look at clutch/master, you'll see what's currently going on.
12:27	triyo	cemerick: I'll have a look. If possible in a sentence or two maybe just to describe what route you took thats different to what you contemplated in your post?
12:28	cemerick	Accomplishes the same thing, but uses a slightly smarter defn-wrapping macro. Thus, pitfall #3 is avoided.
12:28	cemerick	https://github.com/ashafa/clutch/blob/0.3.0/src/com/ashafa/clutch.clj#L60
12:29	tscheibl	.. I do use the "with" paradigm quite often in my code... but imho it's too much boilerplate code for a global config
12:30	tscheibl	and having the config as an atom (state) it gives you the advantage of beein easily reloadable
12:34	tscheibl	.. and you don't have to use bound-fn or create your own special purpose macro for that...
12:34	tscheibl	... but then it's an evil global ;)
12:35	triyo	cemerick: Ok it took me a little while to figure out but I get it now and how wih-db* wraps the call and passes an implicit db arg.
12:35	cemerick	doesn't seem like it took you too long :-)
12:37	pandeiro	cemerick: is there a way to test that the clojure view server is installed and working other than just getting the couchdb config and parsing that and testing a query?
12:37	triyo	cemerick: I'm to rusty on the Clojure front. Its been more then a year since active use, unfortunately. But I'm back, we got some great work that Clojure fits well and should keep me busy for quite some time to come. :)
12:39	cemerick	pandeiro: If you can get away with it, you can just clobber the view server config every time your app starts up.
12:39	pandeiro	cemerick: k i figured as much, i will just do that
12:40	cemerick	If you want to be more careful, yes, you need to access the couchdb config, and somehow make a decision as to whether it's "correct".
12:40	triyo	tscheibl: Global vars or implicit fn arg via a smart with- fn/macro... Hmm, the choice is yours :)
12:40	cemerick	I've no idea how you could make that determination though.
12:40	cemerick	triyo: sounds good :-)
12:40	pandeiro	cemerick: seems like a 3 step process - parse the config, throw up a test view and doc, and query it
12:40	pandeiro	but it's overkill for a little demo app so i will just clobber te config every time app starts
12:41	tscheibl	triyo: my main reason to use the statefull approach with the config was the dynamic reloadabilty
12:41	tscheibl	although it may not be that functional...
12:42	cemerick	pandeiro: really no reason not to. Once you do have a reason not to, you should probably be using a deployment process more sophisticated than the view server config fns in clutch.
12:43	tscheibl	... but it's quite convenient in an inherently multithreaded web-app
12:43	triyo	tscheibl: Well thats the tradeoff I guess. In my case reloading is not desired at all so the functional route for me may very well be more suitable. I'm also thinking what the effect on composability are, if any...
12:45	triyo	oh and testability of course.
12:46	tscheibl	triyo: the "with" approach doesn't keep your code from knowing where (which namespace) to get the config from....
12:46	tscheibl	so composability isn't tht much enhanced
12:47	tscheibl	sure you could write a getter function... but you will also have to refer to it via it's namespace
12:47	tscheibl	its
12:47	tscheibl	arghh... I do always mix it's with its
12:48	triyo	I know which you mean :)
12:48	pandeiro	tscheibl: you and 95% of every blog post that shows up on hacker news
12:59	triyo	If I take the with- + defnc (defn with conf) approach, I still have to battle with: how do I carry the cofig from -main to moustache/ring. I have to think about part like (delegate h/consumption ss ts d u) where delegate macro passes HTTP request on to the handler function h/consumption.
13:00	triyo	Beyond that, things do look rosier
13:00	krey	Hi ;)
13:02	krey	https://gist.github.com/1514936
13:02	krey	I like to write a "with-req-body" ;)
13:03	krey	which takes the code as a parameter and executes it where "parse-stream buf true" is
13:07	tscheibl	pandeiro: it's not that I didn't know the difference :) ... it's just that I don't write much except program code ...
13:08	tscheibl	.. and I type too fast with only 2-6 fingers.. never managed to learn it with all 10 during about 30 years of coding
13:08	tscheibl	.. but it easily leads to typing errors
13:10	tscheibl	I honestly never felt the need to learn it because when I code I work with my brain most oft the time and only type it in when it works inside my head
13:11	tscheibl	... I'm not a secretary ;)
13:11	tscheibl	..although the REPL changed that a bit...
13:54	sbryant	I'm trying out clojure with leiningen as my build + dependency management tool and I cannot for the life of my figure out how to access any dependencies. Keeps telling me things aren't in the classpath but lien classpath gives me what I'm looking for
13:54	sbryant	p.s. using lein swank for slime integration
13:55	sbryant	Which involved going from CVS to elpa (yay) but made me turn off slime fancy (boo but understandable)
13:56	sbryant	The dependency I'm trying to work with is the penumbra lwjgl wrapper library
13:59	aaelony	sbryant: not sure, will this help? http://clojars.org/penumbra/lwjgl
14:00	sbryant	Is that different from penumbra?
14:01	aaelony	try it, dunno
14:01	sbryant	sure thing
14:12	tolstoy	Trying to match (in Clojure) whatever CRC16 they're using in Boost/C++: not a lot of fun. ;)
14:34	Kvaks	What the best way to install Clojure and SLIME from scratch? I've spent an hour messing around, and ended up with bits and pieces from various sources such as ELPA, Git, Ubuntu repos and leinigen. I think I should just start over and find the pieces that work together better.
14:35	Vinzent	Kvaks, 1. install leiningen. 2. install clojure-mode, slime, slime-repl from the elpa
14:36	Kvaks	Alright, thank you!
14:38	sbryant	Just out of curiosity should the dependencies be present in loaded-libs?
14:38	jcromartie	so I've had a Linode server running a Compojure web app from a REPL for a few months now, really no idea how long, but it's just kept running with no issues… so long-running Clojure processes look like they work OK :)
14:39	jcromartie	it's never been restarted
14:49	ibdknox	cool
14:49	ibdknox	most of my sites are running off of lein run
14:57	tscheibl	^^
14:58	pandeiro	ibdknox: where would you stick a noir configuration file, in the project root?
14:58	ibdknox	pandeiro: usually, yeah
15:02	tscheibl	ibdknox: would you consider to make it possible to exclude the jetty dependency via leiningen? I'm using aleph because I need asynchronous io and I have to carry these unneeded dependencies with me. I usually slove this kind of problem in my libraries by requiring the excludable dependency in code just before I need it (if I need it). This saves you from splitting up the project in multiple jars to make it modular (like ring does)
15:03	tscheibl	ibdknox: in noir...
15:06	tauntaun	I'm about to write a web app. Any recommendations other than for Compojure?
15:06	tscheibl	noir
15:06	Tharem	Hi, could someone help me implement assoc for a deftype? I'm trying to make a 2-d array and would like to be able to use assoc to change specific fields.
15:07	tauntaun	tscheibl: reasons?
15:07	tscheibl	tauntaun: it's built upon compojure but saves you a lot of boilerplate code
15:08	ibdknox	tauntaun: also it has lots of stuff to get you started: http://www.webnoir.org
15:08	tscheibl	tauntaun: ... but doesn't take away the flexibility of compojure
15:08	Tharem	The code I've writted so far is here: http://pastebin.com/tSZ1PF4s, but it complains about not being able to find assoc in the interfaces...
15:08	bweaver	Tharem: Could you use `defrecord` instead of `deftype`? It supports `assoc`.
15:08	tauntaun	ok, thanks...
15:09	tscheibl	ibdknox: have u read my former request?
15:09	ibdknox	tscheibl: is there some downside to having that dependency that I'm not aware of?
15:09	Tharem	Hmm, I could, but I'm trying to make it do the following: (assoc game-map [3 3])
15:09	tscheibl	ibdknox: well.. it makes the standalone jar bigger
15:09	Tharem	and I'm not sure how to implement that on a deftype either
15:09	ibdknox	tscheibl: is that actually a problem in practice?
15:10	tscheibl	ibdknox: jetty is quite big and I like to run my stuff on small arm devices
15:10	ibdknox	I see
15:10	tscheibl	embedded stuff
15:10	bweaver	Tharem: Oh, sorry then. I'm new to Clojure but a defrecord would get you `(assoc game-map :xdim 3 :ydim 3)`. Dunno how to boil away the field names from that.
15:11	ibdknox	tscheibl: add an issue for it on github :)
15:11	tscheibl	ibdknox: :)
15:11	Tharem	Nah, that could work, but how do I then get it to look in the appropriate cell? I'm currently using a vector to store the data
15:12	ibdknox	Tharem: why are you hijacking assoc? Why not just write your own function?
15:12	ibdknox	what you described doesn't have the semantics of assoc, it's something else really
15:12	Tharem	That's also an option, but I figured that I could save myself a headache if I could just have a 2-d vector behave like a 1-d one
15:14	Tharem	And it does have the semantics of assoc, but instead of using a single key, it uses 2 keys contained in a vector. Or 2 keys separately, that doesn't matter.
15:14	Tharem	I just need a way to assoc something using 2 keys
15:14	bweaver	Tharem: After looking at the code in your pastebin I see you're trying to do something different than I thought. I can't quite tell what the `assoc` you have written now is supposed to be doing.
15:15	ibdknox	you could use a sorted map with vectors as keys
15:17	Tharem	The idea is rather simple: I've got an n-by-m vector, which I would like to index using an x and an y value. I'm currently using a built-in vector and translating the x and y vector by (+ x (* y y-length))
15:17	Tharem	That value is then used to index the vector
15:17	Tharem	erm, (+ x (* y x-lenght)) I mean
15:18	bweaver	ok
15:18	Tharem	I'm just not sure how to tell clojure to do that. I could use a separate function to index a 2-d array, but I'd prefer using assoc to keep it consistent with the rest of clojure
15:23	jsnikeris	Hi all, I'm working on a formatter for namespace forms. Which output would you prefer for namespaces with long names: http://pastebin.com/cT2A3uWw
15:23	ibdknox	jsnikeris: B
15:25	jsnikeris	Hmm, ya the more I think about this, the problem isn't just namespaces with long names. It also applies to long ":only" lists
15:28	jsnikeris	I guess you'd prefer B here too: http://pastebin.com/M57F1RVL
15:28	ibdknox	definitely
15:29	tscheibl	ibdknox: put that on github as an issue
15:29	tscheibl	I've put that...
15:29	tscheibl	..sry I'm not native
15:30	ibdknox	tscheibl: okidoke, I'll probably fix it shortly for 1.3-alpha(somenum)
15:30	ibdknox	tscheibl: no worries :)
15:30	tscheibl	ibdknox: thx would be awesome :)
15:30	ibdknox	tscheibl: Sind Sie Deutsch?
15:30	tscheibl	ibdknox: Österreich (Austria)
15:30	ibdknox	ah
15:30	tscheibl	ibdknox: but we almost speek german ;)
15:31	ibdknox	haha
15:31	ibdknox	tscheibl: is Clojure being used much over there?
15:32	tscheibl	ibdknox: dunno ... I'm on no lokal IRC channels orforums...
15:32	tscheibl	local..
15:32	ibdknox	tscheibl: do you just use it for side projects?
15:33	tscheibl	ibdknox: nope.. it's my main programming language since about a year
15:33	tscheibl	ibdknox: I'm even using ClojureScript by now
15:33	ibdknox	:)
15:33	ibdknox	tscheibl: how's that working out for you?
15:34	tscheibl	ibdknox: It saves you quite some time when you don't have to switch programming languages all the time in a web project...
15:34	tscheibl	ibdknox: browser differences are hard enough to handle...
15:35	Tharem	In case someone's still interested, I found the solution: http://pastebin.com/KQ829qua
15:35	tscheibl	ibdknox: after solving some problems with the setup it's quite convenient to work with
15:36	deech	Hi all, can someone point me to a resource that compares Clojure's Java interop with ABCL's?
15:36	ibdknox	tscheibl: cool, are you using any CLJS libs?
15:36	tscheibl	ibdknox: hiccups
15:36	tscheibl	ibdknox: maybe soon "match" from dnolen
15:36	tscheibl	or was it matcher?
15:37	ibdknox	match
15:37	bweaver	Tharem: You beat me to it :) http://paste.lisp.org/display/126668
15:37	tscheibl	ibdknox: I've integrated all the clojre and clojurescript compiling stuff with eclipse, ccw and custom builders
15:38	bweaver	Tharem: It's interesting, I hadn't looked at protocols with deftype yet. It's pretty cool stuff.
15:38	tscheibl	ibdknox: ..and use a slightly extended lein-clojurescript from the custom builder
15:39	Tharem	Hmm, does your code work? For me it gave errors with Associative, so I used IPresistentVector
15:39	ibdknox	tscheibl: nice! You should share your workflow with the CCW guys, I bet they'd be interested in seeing how you did it
15:39	bweaver	Tharem: Yeah, using Clojure 1.3
15:39	Tharem	Oh yeah, yours works too
15:39	tscheibl	ibdknox: no prob... took me quite a while to figure it out .. so it could be uf use to others
15:40	Tharem	now I just have to make it so that it doesn't crash the repl when it tries to print a game-map XD
15:41	tscheibl	ibdknox: I've even managed to combine all the clojurescript stuff smoothly with jquery and jquery-mobile
15:42	ibdknox	tscheibl: how'd you do that? an externs file?
15:42	tscheibl	ibdknox: mainly because of jquery-mobile for the UI
15:42	tscheibl	ibdknox: yep
15:42	tscheibl	ibdknox: there are official ones for jquery
15:43	tscheibl	ibdknox: all the other things I need I try to use from the closure library
15:44	ibdknox	tscheibl: like?
15:44	tscheibl	ibdknox: cookie stuff ... crypto hashes .etc
15:44	tscheibl	ibdknox: but not the UI
15:44	ibdknox	yeah
15:44	tscheibl	ibdknox: that's too cumbersom in google
15:45	ibdknox	from what I've seen the UI stuff really sucks
15:45	tscheibl	ibdknox: you name it :)
15:46	tscheibl	ibdknox: the google closure library seems to be quite inconsistent in a lot of places...
15:46	ibdknox	tscheibl: very much so, that's why I started wrapping it :)
15:46	tscheibl	pinot...
15:46	ibdknox	yeah
15:47	tscheibl	ibdknox: I tried to use that too but actually couldn't utilize much of oit because of my jquery-mobile thing
15:48	tscheibl	ibdknox: so I coded the remoting by myself.. but more resty
15:48	tscheibl	ibdknox: I use GET and POST
15:48	deech	I am having trouble setting up SLIME to work with Clojure. I already have a "lein swank" running on port 4005, when I connect it immediately disconnects with a RuntimeException.
15:48	ibdknox	tscheibl: how do you know which to use?
15:49	deech	I have a SLIME config for SBCL and ABCL, I don't want to have to hose those.
15:49	dnolen	deech: have you tried clojure-jack-in provided by clojure-mode ?
15:50	tscheibl	ibdknox: I use get when I need to fetch some data .. if i need arguments for the call they get passed as url parameters.... the jquery ajax call does that automatically... works even with array and maps
15:50	deech	dnolen : Trying that now.
15:51	tscheibl	ibdknox: I use POST when I INSERT or UPDATE things in a CRUD kind of thinking
15:51	tscheibl	ibdknox: ahh yes and also DELETE .. when I delete record
15:51	ibdknox	tscheibl: and what does the client-side code look like?
15:52	tscheibl	ibdknox: the calls are not dispatched from a map like you do.. they are all separate resources..
15:52	tscheibl	ibdknox: i'Äll set up a gist .. mom
15:53	deech	dnolen: I get "error "Could not start swank server: That's not a task. Use \"lein help\" to list all tasks."
15:54	sbryant	deech: you need to install swank-clojure
15:55	tscheibl	ibdknox: https://gist.github.com/1515333
15:55	sbryant	which can be done via plugin install or project dependency
15:55	sbryant	then you'll be able to jack in
15:55	ibdknox	tscheibl: I see, so you provide the URL.
15:55	ibdknox	tscheibl: cool stuff
15:56	sbryant	and it looks like penumbra is clj 1.3.0 only :(
15:56	tscheibl	ibdknox: jquery automatically encodes the data either as url parameters or form encoded depending on the request type
15:56	ibdknox	yeah
15:56	tscheibl	ibdknox: you could also send it as clojure datastructures with some jwuery ajax option
15:57	tscheibl	ibdknox: you could possibly wrap this in some fancy macro.. but I think it wouldn't spare you much
15:57	ibdknox	tscheibl: it looks like you might have a bug, line 15 should be on-error, right?
15:57	deech	sbryant: I'm trying that now.
15:57	sbryant	deech: let me know how it goes
15:57	sbryant	this is my first time with clojure
15:57	sbryant	and that got me too
15:57	sbryant	I have to keep repeating Clojure is not Common Lisp
15:57	tscheibl	ibdknox: ahh thx... just added this 30 minutes ago or so
15:58	tscheibl	ibdknox: error handling comes last :)
15:58	ibdknox	:D
15:58	tscheibl	ibdknox: clients want to see something...
15:58	sbryant	I have no asdf or systems to tell me where all of this code is
15:58	tscheibl	ibdknox: they don't pay me for error handling :)
15:58	ibdknox	haha
15:58	ibdknox	true
15:58	sbryant	and I don't really know java, so it gets pretty damn confusing
15:58	Tharem	Clojure doesn't happen to have a built-in function to make a vector of a specified length?
15:59	Borkdude	Tharem: of what use would that be?
15:59	deech	sbryant : I have swank-clojure.jar installed but I think I need to include that in my .emacs file. I have other CL's configured for SLIME and I'd rather not have to hose those. How did you get SLIME to connect?
15:59	sbryant	Ah
15:59	sbryant	Are you using CVS slime?
16:00	Tharem	Say I want to make a vector containing, initialy, only zeroes, which can be used for assoc
16:00	deech	sbryant: Yes
16:00	sbryant	Okay, kill your checkout
16:00	sbryant	and use the elpa versions
16:00	Tharem	I know how much space I need, just not what to put in it when the vector is created
16:00	Borkdude	Tharem: you can use repeat for it, to create a seq of the same elements n times
16:00	sbryant	I don't know why maybe technomancy can fill in the details but the clojure-swank requires a certain version of slime
16:00	Tharem	Ah thanks
16:01	Tharem	That's what I was looking for
16:01	Borkdude	Tharem: and you can use vec to make it a vec
16:01	sbryant	Also remove your slime setup configuration lines
16:01	Borkdude	,(vec (repeat 10 0))
16:01	deech	sbryant: Does that mean that SLIME will quit working with SBCL etc?
16:01	clojurebot	[0 0 0 0 0 ...]
16:01	sbryant	so no (slime-setup '(fancy))
16:01	sbryant	No
16:01	sbryant	autoloads will take care of setting up slime
16:02	sbryant	which elpa installs
16:02	sbryant	so install slime and slime-repl from the package list
16:03	deech	sbryant: Ok, I'll try that. I'll have to install ELPA first :)
16:03	sbryant	If you're feeling daring try out the latest emacs 24 pretests
16:03	sbryant	they have elpa already installed
16:03	sbryant	so you can install clojure-mode, slime, and slime-repl from the same place
16:04	sbryant	Do the normal thing and add the marmalade repo.
16:13	Tharem	Does anyone happen to know what interface a deftype needs to be printable on the repl?
16:15	tscheibl	Tharem: have you ever had a look at https://github.com/david-mcneil/defrecord2 ?
16:17	yaron-2342	What exactly is the object I get when I call agent-error on an agent? It's not a throwable because I get a cast error when I try to throw it.
16:18	Tharem	Hmm, maybe I should indeed use a record instead of a deftype. I originally picked deftype because I didn't need the functionality provided by a record (or needed to overload it anyway).
16:18	ibdknox	you probably don't need either :)
16:20	Tharem	ibdknox: True, but then I'm going to have to define a lot of functions that do conceptually the same thing as functions that are already built-in
16:21	Tharem	And working with records is childishly simple if I could just find an overview of what interface does what XD
16:21	joegallo	Tharem: pretty sure you just need to overload toString from java.lang.Object -- maybe
16:22	ibdknox	depends on how you represent your data in the beginning. What if you represented your board as a map, instead of nested vectors? Then you wouldn't need anything special at all
16:23	ibdknox	that may not be the right thing to do (I'm not sure what you're doing :) but it's something to think about
16:23	Tharem	True, but every cell is going to be occupied by something
16:23	yaron-2342	O.k. now my head hurts. When I try to throw a value from agent-error inside of a function it fails with a cast error. But when I Try to throw it from inside the repl it's fine. ARG!
16:24	Tharem	and that means a map would add a huge amount of overlap. Plus, I already know how to work with maps :P
16:24	Tharem	overhead*
16:25	yaron-2342	Oh, o.k. it is an exception. I just had a typo. Phew!
16:26	yaron-2342	It's at times like this I really wish Clojure had types.
16:26	Tharem	You can add type hints if you need them
16:28	yaron-2342	But they don't seem to be enforced. E.g. I will put in a type hint saying something is supposed to be a map, send in something that isn't a map and Clojure is perfectly happy. My (probably wrong) understanding is that type hints are only used to avoid reflection in Java. Am I confused?
16:29	joegallo	I think in that case you are using the type hints incorrectly.
16:29	joegallo	Let's say I call (.substring x 5) on a string -- clojure does that via reflection because it doesn't know what x might be.
16:30	TimMc	yaron-2342: You can put in preconditions.
16:30	joegallo	But if I hinted it as a String, then it would compile into a straight up call to the right substring.
16:30	joegallo	Clojure would not be perfectly happy if I had passed a map into either example -- but in both cases, a map has no substring method.
16:30	joegallo	But that might just be my very flawed understanding of things, and I could be completely wrong.
16:31	yaron-2342	joegallo - Indeed, that's what I meant, but for example if I just had a normal clojure function and put in a type hint then Clojure seems to ignore the type hint. The type hint only seems to apply when Java methods are involved.
16:31	joegallo	s/but/because/
16:31	joegallo	Right, the purpose of type hints there is to turn those java method calls from reflection into the actual right thing.
16:31	yaron-2342	TimMc - And I do but they are so… ugly. It would be beyond amazing to just up in something like ^map and call it a day rather than having to stick in pre and post and put in test functions and the rest. Too much ceremony.
16:32	joegallo	Tagging something as a Vector before calling first on it isn't going to do anything at all, the way I understand things.
16:32	yaron-2342	joegallo - That was my understanding, I was just wishing out loud for them to be expanded so they would apply within Clojure
16:32	joegallo	It would just be noise.
16:32	joegallo	Okay -- I think I understand you now.
16:37	Borkdude	every sequence has its own implementation of first, for vectors it is nth(0)
16:38	Borkdude	so providing a type hint isn't needed
16:38	Borkdude	it is just java polymorphism that takes care of it
16:38	Borkdude	if I understand correctly
16:40	mdeboard	Is DOM-level JavaScript libraries like jQuery/jQuery-UI within the scope of tasks that one might undertake in ljs?
16:40	mdeboard	cljs*
16:40	ibdknox	mdeboard: as in writing your own?
16:41	Borkdude	mdeboard: you can use jquery from cljs: https://gist.github.com/1096382
16:41	mdeboard	ibdknox: No, I mean as in say I need to write some autocomplete elements in JavaScript; that would be something I'd drop in with jQuery autocomplete widgets. Is that something one would handle with cljs?
16:42	ibdknox	you certainly could, I'm not sure you'll find you gain much out of it though
16:43	mdeboard	right
16:46	mdeboard	Just looking for a reason to get involved with clojurescript
16:46	ibdknox	mdeboard: you could help build the jquery for cljs: https://github.com/levand/domina
16:46	ibdknox	it'd be a good way to learn I'm sure
16:49	dnolen	mdeboard: honestly at this point using it at all and giving feedback is "getting involved" :)
16:51	mdeboard	dnolen: Yeah I'm trying to fit it into my normal projects here, but I asked before you just joined the channel whether jQuery js would be a good fit for Clojure Script, since that's 99% of what we use JS for
16:51	mdeboard	autocomplete widgets etc
16:53	dnolen	mdeboard: autocomplete widgets that you build from scratch? are you already using some pre-existing auto-complete library?
16:53	mdeboard	dnolen: No we use the jQuery autocomplete widgets, very minimal code etc
16:53	mdeboard	we have one "pure" javascript class that handles pagination
16:53	dnolen	mdeboard: are you planning on getting more ambitious w/ your JS?
16:54	mdeboard	e.g. http://lockheedmartin.jobs/ the "More"/"Less" buttons are handled by a "Pager" class
16:54	ibdknox	cljs only really makes sense for really client heavy applications
16:55	ibdknox	if you're trying to build an "application" instead of a website
16:55	mdeboard	dnolen: Doubt it, we're "committed" (scoff) to using Django & Python
16:55	sandy1986	How can I add parameters to my ~@body in a macro ?
16:55	sbryant	I had no idea people evened used the .jobs TLD
16:56	mdeboard	sbryant: Oh yes, we definitely do
16:56	theconartist	steve.jobs => server not found
16:56	theconartist	:(
16:56	mdeboard	theconartist: Research In Motion once had a .jobs domain
16:56	mdeboard	theconartist: But we changed it for them
16:56	mdeboard	to careers.rim.com
16:56	sbryant	theconartist: you can't use it for personal pages
16:56	dnolen	ibdknox: I would argue any site that is looking at underscore.js / backbone.js should also consider cljs, seems like a lot of sites these days.
16:56	mdeboard	instead of rim.jobs
16:56	sbryant	I'm sure no one would stop you
16:57	theconartist	that's pretty damn funny mdeboard
16:57	Borkdude	sandy1986: what exactly do you mean
16:57	sbryant	mdeboard: but the double entendre is awesome.
16:58	mdeboard	dnolen: Actually we are implementing backbone.js, but that's not a project I Have any involvement with, and the guys that do are not keen on doing anything but js. Interestin though.
16:58	sandy1986	I like to write a macro that wraps something
16:58	sbryant	I would love to have an email at rim.jobs
16:58	sbryant	it's even more ridiculous than my current domain
16:58	sandy1986	(defmacro with-req-body [req & body] `(with-open [r# (~req :body)] (let [buf# (BufferedReader. (InputStreamReader. r#))] body)))
16:59	sandy1986	this works!
16:59	sandy1986	But not with something like: (with-req-body req (parse-stream buf true))
16:59	sandy1986	Cause "buf" is unknown
16:59	sandy1986	I need buf to be known in this context
17:00	sandy1986	body (missed out ~@), sorry <<
17:01	amalloy	sandy1986: make the user call it as (with-req-body [buf] req (...)). then you can bind it to the name they specify
17:02	sandy1986	okay, I'll give it a try. one moment
17:02	dnolen	mdeboard: if you're just reusing widgets and using a couple selectors here an there - no I don't see what cljs buys you. if you need more than the I would start to consider cljs.
17:03	dnolen	mdeboard: I am not nor ever was a fan of jQuery. MooTools was my tool for my client projects for a long time and that was nice.
17:03	sandy1986	amalloy: where does [buf] came from in your example?
17:03	amalloy	uh
17:03	amalloy	the user supplies it when they call your macro?
17:04	mdeboard	dnolen: Noted
17:04	sandy1986	But I want my macro to create id
17:04	andrewvc_	Hi guys, I'm just getting started with macros, and I'm sugaring a common case I see. I'm wondering if my use of letfn here is considered a good idea: https://gist.github.com/af4daaf57ae9ce19d824/d4ca8d360de1cbd14c060223ba44998b34ebdab3
17:04	amalloy	huh?
17:05	amalloy	your macro is creating it; the user is saying what name to give it
17:05	sandy1986	and [buf] is a string?
17:06	amalloy	no, it's evidently a vector containing a symbol
17:06	sandy1986	(with-req-body ["buf"] req (parse-stream buf true)) << ?
17:06	amalloy	(with-req-body [buf] req (parse-stream buf true))
17:07	amalloy	(defmacro with-req-body [[binding] req & body] `(with-open [r# (~req :body)] (let [~binding (BufferedReader. (InputStreamReader. r#))] body)))
17:08	sandy1986	what kind of a type is binding? I try to understand...
17:08	amalloy	andrewvc_: i don't know anything about the part of aleph you're working with. (a) it seems like a reasonable way to wrap things, but (b) why is your wrapped-handler taking ~ch-binding if you rebind it before you let the user see it?
17:10	sandy1986	damn, it really works as excepted
17:10	Borkdude	sandy1986: excepted..?
17:10	andrewvc_	amalloy: My bad, still haven't run it, yeah I'm going to bind ch# to the one aleph provides, and then rebind ch# to ~ch-binding to make it available to the user. That's a bug in it
17:10	andrewvc_	just checking that using letfn inside a macro was an OK thing mostly
17:11	sandy1986	as assumed ;)
17:11	Raynes	amalloy is a fan of letfn in all places, big and small.
17:11	andrewvc_	LOL
17:11	andrewvc_	well, so part of my question is, letfn doesn't go in auto-generated docs
17:11	andrewvc_	so I guess I just need more docs in the enclosing macro then
17:11	andrewvc_	that worried me in particular
17:11	amalloy	sure. it's a bit weird to introduce these "magic" names, but you seem to be making some sort of mini-dsl where you pretend those names are primitives
17:11	andrewvc_	cool
17:11	andrewvc_	great, well, then back to making it actually work
17:12	andrewvc_	thanks guys!
17:12	sandy1986	yes amalloy, this is what i like to do
17:12	sandy1986	but why is binding evaluated in the macro
17:13	amalloy	sandy1986: i don't understand your question
17:14	mcrittenden	eny0j0p1
17:14	sandy1986	okay ;) I pass in the magic argument binding
17:14	sandy1986	it gets evaluated by ~ when the macro is created
17:14	sandy1986	why does it work?
17:15	amalloy	it's not getting evaluated
17:16	sandy1986	and why is ~binding used in the macro?
17:16	amalloy	&(let [binding x, body '(inc x)] `(let [binding 10] ~body))
17:16	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: x in this context
17:17	amalloy	&(let [binding 'x, body '(inc x)] `(let [binding 10] ~body))
17:17	lazybot	⇒ (clojure.core/let [clojure.core/binding 10] (inc x))
17:17	amalloy	&(let [binding 'x, body '(inc x)] `(let [~binding 10] ~body))
17:17	lazybot	⇒ (clojure.core/let [x 10] (inc x))
17:17	amalloy	that's the difference between including the ~ and leaving it out
17:19	sandy1986	& = defmacro ?
17:19	lazybot	⇒ #<core$_EQ_ clojure.core$_EQ_@1ba28e7>
17:20	amalloy	haha
17:20	sandy1986	;)
17:20	amalloy	no, just asking lazybot to eval
17:20	sandy1986	ahh
17:21	sandy1986	what's the difference between & and , for lazybot?
17:21	Raynes	,0
17:21	Raynes	&0
17:21	lazybot	⇒ 0
17:21	clojurebot	0
17:21	Raynes	Different bots.
17:21	sandy1986	ahh ;)
17:21	Raynes	:>
17:21	joegallo	right, & talks to lazybot, while , talks to clojurebot.
17:21	joegallo	iirc
17:21	mdeboard	I'll tell you what I could stand to write in cljs, is a browser plugin that hides stories on HN that have the string "SOPA" in them
17:21	Raynes	yrc
17:22	Raynes	mdeboard: SOPA I agree SOPA I'm getting SOPA tired of hearing SOPA about SOPA.
17:22	mdeboard	@kick Raynes
17:22	mdeboard	damn
17:22	Raynes	$guards
17:22	lazybot	SEIZE HIM!
17:22	mdeboard	ha
17:23	sandy1986	amalloy: so the ~ evaluates binding to 'x !?
17:23	amalloy	yes
17:24	sandy1986	cause [binding] stands alone in my macro definition, it simply evaluates to the passed name of binding?
17:24	mcrittenden	mdeboard: try http://hnapp.com/filter/d65a1cfd462aaf310bcd358d3c44f9d3
17:24	mdeboard	mcrittenden: brilljant
17:25	mdeboard	mcrittenden: That actually is awesome. Did you write?
17:25	mcrittenden	mdeboard: nope, I use it a good bit though. nice site.
17:26	mdeboard	Indeedly doo
17:29	amalloy	sandy1986: that's another question that doesn't make sense. "stands alone" doesn't mean anything; ~binding evaluates to what was passed in because that's what always happens when you unquote anything
17:30	sandy1986	okay, and a vector was passed in, containing "a word" ?
17:30	amalloy	containing a symbol
17:33	sandy1986	ahhh,... okay it makes sense
17:37	jodaro	hrm
17:37	jodaro	is there a one size fits all number parsing way in java?
17:38	mcrittenden	is there a place to go for clojure code review?
17:38	jodaro	i.e. Something/parseWhatever "3.14"
17:38	jodaro	instead of having to know if i want a long/double/etc
17:38	Raynes	&(read-string "3.14")
17:38	lazybot	⇒ 3.14
17:38	Raynes	&(read-string "1")
17:38	lazybot	⇒ 1
17:38	pandeiro_	when i change a file that is already loaded in a slime REPL session, what if anything do i need to do for the changes to be reflected in the repl?
17:39	Raynes	jodaro: read-string will try to read any object and give you something.
17:39	joegallo	If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there.
17:39	jodaro	oh
17:39	jodaro	hmmm
17:39	jodaro	i thought i tried that
17:39	jodaro	and it was returning a symbol
17:39	jodaro	but maybe i did something else
17:39	Raynes	&(read-stirng "foo")
17:39	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: read-stirng in this context
17:39	Raynes	&(read-string "foo")
17:39	lazybot	⇒ foo
17:39	amalloy	mcrittenden: just tell hiredman you came up with a great new idea, you'll get feedback about the parts that are horrible
17:40	Raynes	It can return lots of things. It just happens to do what you want as well.
17:40	jodaro	rad
17:40	jodaro	thats the way i like it
17:40	mdeboard	uh huh uh huh
17:40	jodaro	"it works lots of ways, one of which is the way you want it to work."
17:40	amalloy	pandeiro_: C-c C-k the file
17:40	pandeiro_	amalloy: thanks
17:40	Raynes	jodaro: You don't want use read-string if the numbers are user input. For example, you wouldn't want to use it on a string passed as a query param on a http request.
17:41	Raynes	Because they can use it to evaluate arbitrary code. Unless you bind read-eval to false. Or use clojail. </plug>
17:41	jodaro	heh
17:41	jodaro	i think its safe in this case
17:42	jodaro	its in a situation where i'm providing a decent length of rope for which one can, optionally, hang themself
17:42	Raynes	I'm not sure it should be optional. Why not just make them do it?
17:43	lnostdal_	what does "Symbol's function definition is void: define-slime-contrib" even mean? .. slime is loaded....
17:45	lnostdal_	not sure i want to deal with all this shit anymore .. why the heck isn't the contents of slime (a few kilobytes) simply wrapped in a namespace (does elisp even support namespaces) and included with every, single swank-backend for every single language / tool /whatever out there ....
17:45	sritchie	lnostdal_: no namespaces in elisp
17:45	lnostdal_	then we need to throw emacs and/or elisp away right now
17:46	lnostdal_	totally fed up with it .. especially when dealing with multiple languages and tools
17:46	sritchie	the initial setup can be a little harrowing, but once it's set I've loved it for clojure
17:46	sritchie	that define-slime-contrib thing probably doesn't mean anything bad
17:46	Tharem	It means that slime won't run in his case
17:47	Raynes	lnostdal_: Are you trying to use SLIME for CL as well as Clojure?
17:47	lnostdal_	yes, it works with clojure here too .. but not when "combined" with other stuff .. sbcl, ccl, some nodejs swank backend .. etc.
17:47	sritchie	got it
17:47	Tharem	The problem is that clojure only works with an outdated version of slime
17:47	Raynes	If so, I believe technomancy's advice is "don't bother".
17:48	Raynes	It is a fairly complex set up.
17:48	lnostdal_	yeah, i see he's trying to skip everything via that jack-in thing
17:48	lnostdal_	IIUC
17:49	Tharem	Clojure-jack-in assumes that slime is running properly though
17:49	Raynes	Tharem: I think part of the problem is that the SLIME developers don't really have a concept of releasing things.
17:49	lnostdal_	it does? .. k
17:50	Raynes	I'm not sure what he is talking about.
17:50	Raynes	clojure-jack-in doesn't assume anything.
17:50	lnostdal_	yeah, it injects elisp code (slime) for emacs to eval on-the-go or something?
17:50	lnostdal_	that's what i thought at least
17:50	Tharem	clojure-jack-in does use slime though, no?
17:50	Raynes	It just bootstraps a version of SLIME and runs a Leiningen command for you to start the swank server.
17:51	Tharem	Yes, but having 2 different types of slime on the ready causes problems
17:51	Raynes	It is an absolute godsend for new Clojurians. 90% of the problems reported here were people who were unfamiliar with Emacs.
17:51	Raynes	Using SLIME with Clojure and other languages is a whole different configuration and ball game.
17:51	Tharem	One way around that is to not load slime in .emacs, but provide a function that does the loading
17:51	Raynes	Swank backends target whatever SLIME happened to be around "at the time", in most cases.
17:51	Raynes	Because, like I said, they don't do releases.
17:52	Tharem	That way you can do clojure-jack-in or start slime separately, but things will still break if you use clojure-jack-in after you started slime
17:52	Tharem	the other way around is fine apparently
18:01	sandy1986	Mhhh,...
18:03	sandy1986	Trying to test it via repl... (def testinpt (fn [] (java.io.ByteArrayInputStream. (.getBytes "{name: Sandy}"))))
18:05	sandy1986	mhhh? #<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (1) passed to: core$testinpt>
18:05	sandy1986	with (with-req-body [buf] testinpt (print "x"))
18:06	Tharem	You're obviously trying to call testinpt with 1 argument somewhere. Have you tried macroexpanding that call yet?
18:07	sandy1986	ahh Tharem, thx
18:07	sandy1986	(def testinpt (fn [param] (java.io.ByteArrayInputStream. (.getBytes "{name: Sandy}")))) fixed it
18:08	Tharem	Arity is just a fancy word for number if input paramters
18:08	Tharem	so an arity exception means there's a mismatch between what the function is getting and what it's expecting
18:08	Vinzent	sandy1986, why not (defn testinpt [param] ...)?
18:10	sandy1986	yeah Vinzent thank you very much
18:11	sandy1986	how can I macroexpand it to view what's getting generated?
18:12	Tharem	If you're using a macro (and I think with-req-body is one), you can use (macroexpand-1 '(macroname foo bar))
18:12	Vinzent	In emacs C-c RET, or use macroexpand-1
18:14	Tharem	Is someone here familiar with the intricacies of painting on a JPanel?
18:15	Tharem	If so, can you tell me why the following code doesn't do what I'm expecting: http://pastebin.com/q3Bg2yuY
18:16	sandy1986	oh thank you guys very much
18:16	sandy1986	(clojure.core/with-open [r__798__auto__ (testinpt :body)] (clojure.core/let [buf (java.io.BufferedReader. (java.io.InputStreamReader. r__798__auto__))] (print "x"))) << yeah
18:17	sandy1986	Are the resources auto-garbage collected?
18:18	sandy1986	What is happening after the macro was run?
18:18	Tharem	When the macro is run, it generates the code shown, which is then fed to the JIT-compiler, which compiles and excecutes it
18:18	Tharem	Any garbage created is collected
18:19	sandy1986	Ahh, so the code does not stay in the memory?
18:19	amalloy	Tharem: can you paste somewhere else, like gist? my computer can't resolve pastebin.com now - maybe dns issues related to sopa? :P
18:19	sandy1986	(code = code generated from macro)
18:20	semperos	tried out the code in this article: http://steve.vinoski.net/pdf/IC-ClojureScript.pdf
18:20	semperos	works fine when compiling the ClojureScript with {:optimizations :advanced}
18:20	semperos	ah, nm
18:20	semperos	just saw my syntax error
18:22	Tharem	Amalloy, Sure, here is it: https://gist.github.com/1515646
18:22	amalloy	(.darwString "bla" 10 10)?
18:22	Tharem	For some reason it does manage to create a swing window with a black background, but it's not printing bla on it
18:22	Tharem	Yeah that's test code
18:23	amalloy	darw
18:23	Tharem	I'm trying to get it to print some strings somewhere, but it doesn't even do that
18:23	Tharem	XD
18:23	Tharem	Ok thanks
18:23	Tharem	That makes me wonder how that got past the compiler though....
18:24	SergeyD	Hi, is it ok to share my Clojure project link here?
18:24	amalloy	well the compiler doesn't have the type information, i think
18:25	mcrittenden	what does & mean in the params for a function declaration? for example: (defn head [url & [req]] ...)
18:25	ibdknox	mcrittenden: & essentially means the rest of the params put into a seq
18:26	Tharem	mcrittenden, it means that the function can be called with any number of arguments and all remaining arguments will be collected into the final parameter
18:26	ibdknox	mcrittenden: in this case it's being used to make the param req optional
18:26	mcrittenden	ahh interesting, thanks
18:27	lnostdal_	now jack-in doesn't even work
18:27	lnostdal_	Messages is showing "error in process filter: Symbol's function definition is void: slime-output-buffer [2 times]" no repl shows though
18:28	mcrittenden	ibdknox: you still get any requests via i will build your prototype?
18:28	ibdknox	mcrittenden: fairly often, actually
18:28	mcrittenden	are the clients typically pretty decent?
18:28	ibdknox	it depends
18:28	mcrittenden	mostly startup founders w/o a tech cofounder I'd imagine?
18:29	ibdknox	actually it's been all over the board
18:30	ibdknox	I've gotten some requests from larger organizations and some from would-be entrepeneurs
18:30	mcrittenden	does anyone ever show concern about the fact that you'd be using clojure?
18:30	ibdknox	I think my offer weeds them out lol :)
18:31	mcrittenden	interesting stuff. sounds like a great way to work on a bunch of different projects and get to use the tools you want
18:32	mcrittenden	i'm a drupal dev by day, mostly just because there's so much work, not at all because I enjoy drupal. so color me jealous
18:33	ibdknox	drupal pains me
18:33	mcrittenden	drupal is extremely productive once you've spent a few months with it, but it never really gets fun. it's always a bit of a grind
18:33	mcrittenden	at least for me
18:34	mcrittenden	anyways thanks for the info, just curious
18:35	sandy1986	what does defn- do '?
19:04	lnostdal_	sandy1986, it makes the function only available within the current namespace
19:05	sandy1986	lnostdal_: ahhh thx
19:08	sandy1986	what is defn-memo ?
19:16	lnostdal_	sandy1986, if you move the cursor over to defn-memo and press Alt-. it might lead to the definition of that, which might include some docs
19:16	lnostdal_	Alt-, will take you back
19:17	sandy1986	Does not work... which cursor? I'm using putty and vim
19:17	lnostdal_	ok, i assumed emacs
19:18	sandy1986	I googled for it... it is in clojure.contrib v1.2 which is not compatible up to clojure 1.3, right?
19:19	sandy1986	https://github.com/adamwynne/kestrel-client/blob/master/src/kestrel/client.clj << is the use of defn-memo default-client okay? Maybe this is not good cause the function has side-effects (connection-closed, ...) ?
19:33	sandy1986	lnostdal_: ?
19:53	dnolen	(+ 4 5)
19:53	clojurebot	suffusion of yellow
19:54	dnolen	oops
20:03	dnolen	grr, has anyone seen the issue where the SLIME REPL just doesn't seem to take any input
20:04	dnolen	though interactive SLIME commands from w/in .clj files works fine
21:04	mdeboard	I'm seeking a quote by rhickey that said something along hte lines of, "Performance is meaningless if you don't have reliable data", anyone have a link?
21:48	xcv	Hey guys, any news on when the screencasts from the last conj will be up on blip.tv? Really looking forward to watching them.
21:54	aphyr	Style question: how should I handle kwargs?
21:56	dnolen	aphyr: destructuring supports kwargs
21:56	dnolen
21:56	aphyr	(func :opt value :opt2 value), written with destructuring bind looks cleaner, but I've read that it can be slower.
21:57	aphyr	The other thing is that sometimes I want to write a function that takes keyword args, provides a default for one of them, and passes the merged options down to some lower-level function
21:57	dnolen	aphyr: you can provide defaults
21:57	aphyr	With (func {...}), that's easy to write as (lower-func (merge defaults opts))
21:58	dnolen	(defn foo [& {:keys [foo bar] :or {bar 1}}] ...)
21:59	aphyr	For destructuring, I'm aware of (defn func [ & { :keys [a b c] :or [{...}]}]). Do I have to list the keys explicitly every time?
21:59	aphyr	It'd be great if I could say "Take your args, provide a default for :somekey, and call the next fun"
22:00	aphyr	(without necessarily knowing what all the keys are)
22:01	amalloy	just don't do it in the destructuring context
22:01	amalloy	as an aside, i think having a hierarchy with dozens of functions using kwargs is pretty gross. if you want kwargs as your top-level api, fine, but once you get into the internals accept an actual map so you don't have to do all this wrangling with & args
22:02	aphyr	aha! That's the opinion I was starting to form.
22:02	aphyr	Just passing maps down seems like less code
22:02	amalloy	once you're just working with maps, it's easy
22:02	dnolen	what amalloy said
22:03	aphyr	So... for user-facing code, kwargs for a concise API. For internal code, use maps for brevity (and speed?)
22:03	amalloy	(defn foo [opts] (bar (into {:a default-a} opts)))
22:03	amalloy	aphyr: personally i don't usually bother with kwargs for the user-facing code either, but there's nothing wrong with it
22:03	amalloy	it seems to me that if i write an API that has many kwargs i've usually designed it badly
22:04	aphyr	Mostly I need it for network configuration, etc.
22:04	aphyr	:host, :port, :proto, blah blah blah
22:05	amalloy	eh. so ask them to pass a config/options map
22:05	aphyr	Sounds good. Thanks a bunch guys. I haven't seen anything expressing this clearly in my googling, so I'll write a short post about it.
23:55	tauntaun	I can't seem to use the sql API without provoking exceptions. What are the latest versions of clojure & clojure-contrib that I should specify in leiningen's dependencies (project.clj)?
23:57	dnolen	tauntaun: don't use the sql lib from monolothic contrib. there's a new one well maintained one.
23:58	dnolen	tauntaun: I recommend 1.3.0 + https://github.com/clojure/java.jdbc
23:58	ibdknox	tauntaun: and for a higher level API, Korma: http://www.sqlkorma.com
23:59	tauntaun	thanks