#clojure – 2011-12-17

2011-12-17

00:00	amalloy	jcromartie: (proxy [Foo] [] (someMethod [] (.redraw this)))
00:00	jcromartie	this!
00:00	jcromartie	of course
00:00	jcromartie	thanks
00:01	TimMc	OK, turns out the CLJS compiler will not write to an existing file. >_<
00:09	TimMc	but now there is a sort of cljs REPL on k.timmc.org:7013
00:10	TimMc	no client support yet -- but (+ 1 2) works
00:16	davekong	The clojure spec says that when Integers becomes to large they will automaticall be converted to BigNums but (use 'clojure.contrib.math) (expt 999 999) and I get an overflow error?
00:33	davekong	clojurebot expt
00:39	notostraca2	&(doc expt)
00:39	lazybot	java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve var: expt in this context
00:39	notostraca2	,(doc expt)
00:39	clojurebot	Gabh mo leithscéal?
02:05	mrevil	i don't understand the purpose behind the necessity of deftest, why not just testing "…"?
07:46	Borkdude	What is the most idiomatic way to get true or false out of (some pred coll) instead of nil?
07:59	raek	Borkdude: run it through 'boolean': (some (comp boolean f) coll)
08:01	raek	or if 'pred' is a set, you can use 'contains?' as the function instead of 'get' or the set itself
08:03	Borkdude	raek: ah ok
08:45	Vinzent	Hello. I'm trying to use clojure.core.cache, but (cache/fifo-cache-factory 10 []) gives me "Assert failed: (map? base)". Why? I don't want a map, I want just a collection of values. Can somebody please explain me how to use this library?
08:51	janissary	Xjk
09:02	jasperla	anyone here used xmpp-clj? it doesn't seem there's a way to initiate a chat, right?
09:57	Vinzent	what's with clojureql.org?
09:58	tscheibl	seems like it's standing still... isn't it?
10:01	Vinzent	hm, I can't open it (unknown host)
10:01	tscheibl	I can... but maybe it's cached in my DNS
10:02	tscheibl	you are right...
10:02	tscheibl	it was only cached in my browser
10:05	Vinzent	looks like it isn't mainained now at all... well, looking at korma
10:06	tscheibl	I had a look at Korma, too... but stayed with clojureql... improving it by myself
10:07	tscheibl	Korma is a bit too much ORM for my taste....
10:08	Vinzent	have you considered forking it?
10:08	tscheibl	I've cloned it locally
10:09	tscheibl	when I find some time I will eventually push my changes to a github fork
10:10	tscheibl	... I've integrated a slightly modified version of bendlas' "with recursive" improvements
10:11	tscheibl	and added the possibility to use non parameterized (inline) predicates... which is usefull with the "with recursive" construct.. at leas with H2 DB
10:13	tscheibl	..yes.. and I can use sql functions now with update queries... useful for example to increment a revision count within an update query
10:14	tscheibl	btw, clojureql is still online on github
10:15	Vinzent	yeah, I agree it feels like orm, and for my case clojureql would be a better fit, but you know, docs and all that stuff - probably it'd be easier and faster with korma...
10:15	accel	is there a simple way in clojure ot get a dump of all threads in the current jvm?
10:17	Vinzent	that's cool! you should definitely push it to the main repo
10:21	tscheibl	@accel: not in core ... I'v used Java interop utilizing the Thread and ThreadGroup classes to implement this
10:21	accel	tscheibl: do you have a short snipplet of code you can paste bin?
10:22	tscheibl	accel: let me see...
10:22	accel	awesome :-)
10:26	tscheibl	accel: damnit .. didn't commit it into the repo...
10:27	tscheibl	but basically you have to get your current thread using (Thread/currentThread)
10:27	accel	is it like: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1323408/get-a-list-of-all-threads-currently-running-in-java ?
10:27	tscheibl	yep
10:28	accel	noted; thanks
11:10	accel	can someone point me at a guide for doing blind, stupid line by line trannslation of java into clojure?
11:10	accel	[I'll fiure out how to clojure-ify it after I get it working]
11:12	nickik	accel, there is no guild. You'll have to look at the clojure-java interop stuff.
11:12	Vinzent	new Class() becomes (Class.), obj.method becomes (.method obj), cls.static() becomes (cls/static), that's all
11:12	nickik	You will find lots of examples in the internet
11:13	accel	how about new Class (foo)
11:13	accel	does it beomce (new Class foo) ?
11:13	nickik	(Class. foo)
11:13	Vinzent	yes, or (Class. foo)
11:13	accel	cls.static(foo, bar) -> (. cls static foo bar) ?
11:13	Vinzent	(cls/static foo bar)
11:14	accel	Vinzent: nice; thanks
11:14	accel	does clojure have osmethig like lisp's let* ?
11:16	TimMc	accel: let
11:17	TimMc	amusingly, let* is like lisp's let
11:17	TimMc	because it is the more basic form that let uses.
11:18	TimMc	&(let [x 5, x (+ x 2)] x)
11:18	lazybot	⇒ 7
11:18	accel	lol; clojure does not give a damn about lisp specs
11:18	TimMc	accel: That confused the hell out of me until I re-read http://clojure.org/lisps
11:19	TimMc	Clojure is a Lisp, but it is not Common Lisp.
11:19	TimMc	&((fn [x x x] x) 1 2 3)
11:19	lazybot	⇒ 3
11:19	TimMc	^ fn binds sequentially as well
11:22	tscheibl	accel:
11:22	tscheibl	(defn root-thread-group []
11:22	tscheibl	(loop [thread-group (.getThreadGroup (Thread/currentThread))]
11:22	tscheibl	(let [parent-group (.getParent thread-group)]
11:23	tscheibl	(if parent-group
11:23	tscheibl	(recur parent-group)
11:23	tscheibl	thread-group))))
11:23	tscheibl	this gives you the root thread group in clojure
11:23	TimMc	tscheibl: cough gist cough
11:23	tscheibl	sry
11:24	accel	tscheibl: nice; thanks :-)
11:25	accel	do I need to import something to be able to say (foo/bar) instead of (. foo bar) ?
11:25	tscheibl	(foo/bar) denotes a static method call
11:27	tscheibl	but you could use the (.bar foo) sugar to abbreviate calls to instance methods
11:28	Vinzent	accel, you need to import to be able to say e.g. Baz/static instead of foo.bar.Baz/static, this is just like in java
11:28	accel	noted
11:28	accel	fixing things up :-)
11:31	accel	woot; I think it kinda worked
11:31	accel	thanks everyone
11:32	tscheibl	accel: you could even replace the let and if lines with (if-let [parent-group (.getParent thread-group)] ...) to gain one line of code :)
11:32	tscheibl	I mena... to save one line...
11:32	tscheibl	mean
11:35	accel	is there a good documentation of "all the things clojure changed from standard lisp/scheme?"
11:36	tscheibl	accel: http://clojure.org/lisps
11:36	accel	tscheibl: awesome; thanks!
11:39	cgray	is there a version of with-open that can handle being read from lazily?
11:40	cgray	sorry, that's not too clear... i want to put a java.io/reader in a with-open, and then read from the reader lazily
12:11	accel	I have a basic cojure GUI (basically http://clojure.org/jvm_hosted). I have another piece of clojure code that renders to a graphics 2d environment. Question: How do I create a graphics 2d environment?
12:11	accel	I have a basic cojure GUI (basically http://clojure.org/jvm_hosted). I have another piece of clojure code that renders to a graphics 2d environment. Question: How do I create a graphics 2d environment (within the GUI I have; i.e. what gui element do I want? i.e. something of the type JLabel, JButton, ... but not quite, maybe somethging like JGraphics2D)
12:13	accel	hmm, JPanel followed by a getGraphics
12:13	accel	?
12:13	accel	surely there is a less hackish way
12:23	tscheibl	accel: why don't u use something like https://github.com/daveray/seesaw for GUI development? ... there is another one on github.. I forgot the name...
12:24	tscheibl	ahh yeah.. that one: https://github.com/stathissideris/clarity
12:24	clojurebot	eg, https://github.com/clojure/tools.logging is the new version of clojure.contrib.logging
12:27	accel	as it turns out
12:27	accel	all I literally need
12:27	accel	is a graphics 2d environment
12:27	accel	to render graphics stuff to
12:33	TimMc	accel:Something like this? https://github.com/timmc/CS4300-HW3/blob/master/src/timmcHW3/gui.clj#L179
12:35	accel	TimMc: not sure yet
12:35	accel	I just threw in a JPanel; now trying to get stuff to render to it
12:36	TimMc	accel: Just proxy a JComponent.
12:36	TimMc	override the paint method.
12:36	cgray	accel: if you don't need buttons and stuff, you might want to look at clj-processing
12:38	accel	muhahaha
12:38	accel	got it working :-)
12:38	accel	clj-processing soudns cool though :-)
12:38	accel	TimMc: ended up I think, doing the equiv of proxing a jpanel
12:39	TimMc	cool
12:39	TimMc	"you think"? :-P
12:39	accel	i'm famliar with neither java nor clojure
12:39	accel	I have noi dea what I've done, but it works :-)
12:39	TimMc	haha
12:39	TimMc	accel: You'll want to read up on the Swing event loop at some point.
12:40	accel	this is the "learn a programming language by picking a project + trying to make it work" approach
12:40	TimMc	It's not too complicated, and it's important to know.
12:40	accel	yeah; I need to understand how the separte GUI thread
12:40	accel	and what I'm allowed to do in what thread
12:40	TimMc	accel: https://github.com/timmc/CS4300-HW3/blob/master/src/timmcHW3/core.clj#L557 Check out what launch does and how it is invoked from -main.
12:41	accel	what is this
12:41	accel	and how are you taknng a CS class
12:41	accel	where the HW is done in clojure
12:41	accel	and why is your CS HW publically abailable on github? :-)
12:42	TimMc	Ignore all the ref-set stuff, just note that the frame is created from an invokeLater.
12:42	TimMc	accel: Computer Graphics course at Northeastern University. The prof said any language was fine. :-)
12:43	TimMc	He also OK'd putting the stuff on GitHub -- I don't remember if I put it up after the assignment was over, or because it's an honor system, or what.
12:49	TimMc	accel: I also managed to get permission to use Clojure for my Computer Architecture course.
12:51	TimMc	In the REPL, how do I switch over to another namespace and have all the defs refer'd?
12:54	tscheibl	refer to the previous namespace?
12:55	TimMc	No, refer all the new defs, as if I had started the REPL there.
12:55	tscheibl	the defs you did before switching?
12:56	TimMc	No, the defs in the new namespace.
12:56	TimMc	I mean, I could (use 'other.namespace)...
12:59	tscheibl	sounds good
13:00	tscheibl	(in-ns 'namespace-name) should also work if the namespace is already loaded
13:01	TimMc	oops, in-ns takes away core...
13:01	TimMc	I think I'll stick with use.
13:01	TimMc	ARGH NON-DETERMINISTIC CODE
13:02	tscheibl	^^
13:02	TimMc	"Assert failed: Can't recur here" -- and then the next time I call it, no problemo
13:03	tscheibl	lol
13:05	tscheibl	.. just catch the first exception and retry :D
13:10	TimMc	ugh, seriously.
13:10	TimMc	I think I'm going to add that to the startup code. >_<
14:19	duck1123	what projects would anyone recommend to look at that are extensively tested in Midje? (aside from midje itself)
14:40	accel	is there a program where I can feed it a collection of *.Java files
14:41	accel	and it'll pull out all the constructors for me?
14:41	accel	I have a huge java library and I need to interface with clojure
14:55	qbg	accel: Maybe using reflection on the classes themselves might be better
15:29	blakesmith	If I have a sequence of integers that represent a right single quote in UTF-8 (http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2019/index.htm), what's the easiest way to convert that to a string?
15:30	blakesmith	Trying with no success. https://gist.github.com/1491274
15:30	blakesmith	I think I'm missing something obvious. :-(
15:36	qbg	blakesmith: Try using String(byte[], Charset) instead
15:36	tomoj`	have to get bytes somehow
15:37	tomoj`	but they're signed..
15:37	blakesmith	I found out Java doesn't support unsigned bytes. :-(
15:37	qbg	Doesn't matter
15:37	qbg	You need to cast them to byte
15:38	tomoj`	.. manually? :)
15:38	qbg	clojure.lang.RT has a method for the cast
15:38	tomoj`	&(byte 0xE2)
15:38	lazybot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Value out of range for byte: 226
15:38	blakesmith	&(byte 0x99)
15:38	lazybot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Value out of range for byte: 153
15:38	tomoj`	oh, nice
15:38	qbg	Yeah, byte doesn't work
15:38	tomoj`	hmm
15:38	tomoj`	you mean byteCast?
15:38	qbg	There is an unchecked byte cast method on clojure.lang.RT
15:38	qbg	I forget the name of it though
15:39	tomoj`	I get the same error
15:39	tomoj`	ah, uncheckedByteCast
15:39	qbg	,(clojure.lang.RT/uncheckedByteCast 226)
15:39	clojurebot	-30
15:39	qbg	Yep
15:39	qbg	There we go
15:39	tomoj`	excellent
15:39	blakesmith	Nice. Thanks guys!
15:39	blakesmith	I'll give it a shot.
15:45	blakesmith	qbg: Hrm, I'm getting java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching method: uncheckedByteCast (NO_SOURCE_FILE:104)
15:45	blakesmith	user=> (clojure.lang.RT/uncheckedByteCast 226)
15:45	qbg	What version of clojure are you using?
15:45	blakesmith	1.2.1
15:47	qbg	,(.byteValue 226)
15:47	clojurebot	-30
15:47	qbg	Try that
15:48	blakesmith	Cool, got it.
15:50	blakesmith	,(String. (into-array Byte/TYPE (map #(.byteValue %) [0xE2 0x80 0x99])) "UTF-8")
15:50	clojurebot	"’"
15:50	blakesmith	Awesome, must be my terminal.
16:04	tomoj`	oh.. ##(unchecked-byte 0xE2)
16:04	lazybot	⇒ -30
16:14	raek	blakesmith: if you use Mac OS X, java is configured to use the wrong default encoding
16:15	raek	blakesmith: but (String. bytes charset) and (.getBytes string charset) is the correct way
16:38	compmstr	When setting up a macro (defmacro def-func [name] `(defn ~name [attribs] ... why does it turn attribs into user/attribs and not set it up as the argument to the defined function?
16:40	compmstr	I end up getting the error: "Can't use qualified name as parameter: user/attribs" when I attempt to use the macro
16:40	Bronsa	this is because syntax-quote automatically namespace-qualifies vars
16:41	Bronsa	what you need to do is to replace attribs with attribs#
16:41	TimMc	Bronsa: Thank you for saying that, Bronsa, for you have saved me from making a stupid suggestion.
16:41	TimMc	(but not saved me from writing awkward sentences)
16:42	Bronsa	TimMc: haha you're welcome
16:42	compmstr	Thank you, so that makes it so that a symbol stays a local symbol instead of expanding to a namespace?
16:42	compmstr	er...
16:42	Bronsa	,`(a)
16:42	clojurebot	(sandbox/a)
16:42	Bronsa	,`(a#)
16:42	clojurebot	(a__106__auto__)
16:42	TimMc	compmstr: foo# is a gensym -- a symbol will be created for you.
16:42	Bronsa	that ^
16:42	compmstr	Ah, ok
16:43	TimMc	&`(fn [x#] x#)
16:43	lazybot	⇒ (clojure.core/fn [x__15392__auto__] x__15392__auto__)
16:43	compmstr	I was starting to get around it using (symbol ...), but I thought there had to be a better way
16:43	TimMc	compmstr: and it will be the same symbol for all instances of foo# in the syntax-quote.
16:43	compmstr	Is that documented anywhere?
16:44	TimMc	It's probably in clojure.org/reader
16:44	TimMc	(The URL, not a namespace)
16:44	Bronsa	http://clojure.org/reader under "Syntax-quote"
16:44	gfredericks	&`(#foo #foo ~(list `#foo))
16:44	lazybot	java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: foo
16:44	gfredericks	hmm
16:45	compmstr	Thank you very much :)
16:45	compmstr	I've been mainly using the cheatsheet
16:45	TimMc	gfredericks: foo# not #foo
16:45	gfredericks	oh ha
16:45	Bronsa	gfredericks: did you mean foo#?
16:45	gfredericks	just saw that
16:45	gfredericks	&`(foo# foo# ~(list `foo#))
16:45	lazybot	⇒ (foo__15401__auto__ foo__15401__auto__ (foo__15400__auto__))
16:54	TimMc	Ugh, I just want to give up on this try-cljs thing.
16:55	TimMc	CLJS is so awkward to work with.
16:55	budu	talking of CLJS, anybody got the browser REPL working through lein repl?
16:56	TimMc	1) I can't just make an API call and get compiled code back -- it has to write it to the filesystem, and then I have to read it back in.
16:56	TimMc	2) The GClosure system has its own notions of where dependencies live, and it isn't very clear what those are.
16:56	alexbaranosky	TimMc: I see your commit. Cool.
16:57	alexbaranosky	really busy now, hopefully I can get to TryCljs at some point
16:57	TimMc	3) I have to jump through hoops to compile all the cljs client libs to JS first.
16:57	blakesmith	raek: Thanks, what's the easiest way to change it? (I'm on OS X)
16:58	TimMc	alexbaranosky: I sort of almost have the CLJS client libs loading...
16:58	alexbaranosky	nice!
16:59	alexbaranosky	TimMc: non-technical question - do you think TryClojureScript is a better name, considering the site is targeted at beginners, who will probably have no idea what cljs is?
16:59	TimMc	alexbaranosky: The first compilation almost always fails with an AssertionError, and then succeeds for every subsequent try.
17:00	TimMc	alexbaranosky: Sounds good.
17:00	alexbaranosky	TimMc: strange... what's the assertion error?
17:00	TimMc	I don't have it on hand, let me start it back up.
17:00	alexbaranosky	TimMc: I'll add the cljs -> ClojureScript idea to the TODO file, and get to it when I have time to play
17:03	TimMc	alexbaranosky: "recur not allowed here" or something.
17:05	TimMc	it's in the cljs compiler
17:05	alexbaranosky	TimMc: strange. My first thought when you said it failed the first time but not afterward, was maybe that there was some weird timing or ordering issue ----- doesn't seem likely though if the error is coming from the compiler
17:06	TimMc	It only happens on the first call, and almost always.
17:06	TimMc	totally weird
17:06	alexbaranosky	are the inputs to the first and second call preceisely the same?
17:07	alexbaranosky	maybe one is html encoded and the second one is decoded - shot in the dark
17:07	alexbaranosky	I have to go though, ciao
17:07	TimMc	precisely
17:07	TimMc	cya
17:08	alexbaranosky	TimMc: bug in compiler?
17:09	djhworld	w
17:11	gfredericks	djhworld: x
17:17	budu	is there a way to get the cljs repl working with slime?
17:18	TimMc	at least (js* "alert(5)") :-P
17:18	TimMc	*works
17:30	technomancy	budu: no; it would be tons of work to get that working.
17:38	devn	good way to convert 500 to [5 0 0] without a lot of intermediate nonsense?
17:41	weavejester	devn: Are you asking for a good way to do that?
17:41	devn	weavejester: i am
17:41	TimMc	devn: Depends on what you mean by "intermediate nonsense".
17:41	devn	TimMc: I'm thinking about str -> char -> int, etc.
17:41	weavejester	(->> 500 str (map #(Integer. %)))
17:42	weavejester	,(->> 500 str (map #(Integer. %)))
17:42	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching ctor found for class java.lang.Integer>
17:42	TimMc	&(map #(Integer/parseInt (str %)) (Integer/toString 500 10))
17:42	lazybot	⇒ (5 0 0)
17:42	weavejester	Oh, oops
17:43	Somelauw	##(Integer/toString 500) vs ##(str 500)
17:43	lazybot	(Integer/toString 500) ⇒ "500"
17:43	lazybot	(str 500) ⇒ "500"
17:43	technomancy	it's too bad there's no memfn equivalent for static methods and constructors
17:43	weavejester	Yeah...
17:43	technomancy	,((memfn Integer.) "30")
17:43	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching method found: Integer. for class java.lang.String>
17:43	technomancy	(just checking)
17:44	weavejester	&(->> 500 str (map #(Integer. (str %))))
17:44	lazybot	⇒ (5 0 0)
17:44	weavejester	I'd kinda like a "coerce" multimethod in Clojure core
17:45	TimMc	I guess we don't need to worry about bases here -- not likely to get octal by accident.
17:45	TimMc	&(Integer. "050")
17:45	lazybot	⇒ 50
17:45	weavejester	Like: (coerce 1 String) (coerce "1" Integer)
17:45	devn	what about using mod?
17:45	TimMc	&(Integer/parseInt "050")
17:45	lazybot	⇒ 50
17:45	devn	,(mod 500 10)
17:45	clojurebot	0
17:45	devn	,(mod 500 100)
17:45	clojurebot	0
17:45	devn	,(mod 500 1000)
17:45	clojurebot	500
17:45	TimMc	Maybe something with iterate.
17:46	devn	hm, yeah
17:46	Somelauw	,(take-while #(> % 1)(iterate 500 #(/ % 10)))
17:46	clojurebot	#<ExecutionException java.util.concurrent.ExecutionException: java.lang.ClassCastException: sandbox$eval486$fn__489 cannot be cast to java.lang.Number>
17:47	Somelauw	Nevermind, that won't work
17:49	Raynes	&(->> 500 str (map (comp read-string str)))
17:49	lazybot	⇒ (5 0 0)
17:49	Raynes	Close enough.
17:53	devn	that's pretty
17:56	devn	,(#(for [c (str (* % %2))] (- (int c) 48)) 500)
17:56	clojurebot	#<ArityException clojure.lang.ArityException: Wrong number of args (1) passed to: sandbox$eval136$fn>
17:57	devn	,(#(for [c (str (* % %2))] (- (int c) 48)) 5 100)
17:57	clojurebot	(5 0 0)
17:57	TimMc	Raynes: I'm writing this Leiningen deps hook that does a bunch of filesystem manipulation and I find myself wishing for a nice macro that allows me to represent a directory tree and bind names to certain nodes.
17:58	Raynes	TimMc: That sounds interesting.
17:58	devn	TimMc: what kind of criteria do you have to work with for the nodes? Could you use some combination of file-seq and info about each node?
17:58	devn	like modified time, etc.
17:59	TimMc	devn: Just paths.
18:00	TimMc	Let me show you an example of what is making me want this... https://gist.github.com/1491709
18:00	TimMc	Look at the defs around line 37 and the let bindings in the fetch-cljs fn.
18:01	devn	TimMc: ahhh, i see
18:01	TimMc	I haven't decided what the input form would look like, but I imagine something like match.
18:01	TimMc	well, I don't know
18:06	Raynes	TimMc: I don't know if I'll have time anytime soon to write something like that, but if you end up with something, I'd love to include it in fs.
18:07	TimMc	Raynes: I plan on writing something, but I wanted to put the idea out there in case anyone else had any thoughts on it.
18:07	TimMc	I'll let you know if I build something.
18:11	TimMc	OK, pushed changes, so I can delete the gist. Here's the example: https://github.com/baznex/trycljs/blob/efb14d492b29a9afa60a6dd841eed2500c81cbc7/src/leiningen/fetch_cljs.clj
18:13	Raynes	TimMc: In case you were wondering why I had that little task for grabbing JS deps, it's because I got sick of tryclojure being listed as a JavaScript project.
18:13	TimMc	haha
18:13	devn	Raynes: i found that if you place them under a dir called vendor it seems to ignore them
18:13	devn	fwiw
18:14	Raynes	Yeah, I know, but meh.
18:14	TimMc	I think that's what amalloy does.
18:14	Raynes	I totally likes my way too.
18:14	TimMc	Raynes: CLJS moves so fast that I want to be able to rebuild it. :-/
18:14	devn	it's kind of nice when you consider the amount of clojure required is a tiny fraction of the JS in most web projects
18:15	devn	even for medium-sized clojure web projects
18:15	Raynes	devn: That's mostly not true though.
18:15	devn	Raynes: which part? :)
18:16	Raynes	devn: The reason there is such an insane amount of JS is because people include what is essentially a standard library in their project (jquery) and other dependencies.
18:16	Raynes	tryclj's actual application js is fairly small.
18:16	Raynes	If you included 4clojure's dependencies in the repo...
18:18	devn	Raynes: it would be interesting to compare a couple of full clojure libs with a project as well as the js libs it needs and see how they stack up
18:21	devn	how big is an unminified version of jquery lately?
18:22	devn	9,266 uncompressed
18:28	Raynes	amalloy: OHai!
19:02	mrevil	If I fork a clojure library, is there a way I can pull it in as a lein dependency without pushing it to a maven repo?
19:05	ihodes	is there a nice way of changing how toString works on clojure.lang.PersistentQueue?
19:05	Raynes	mrevil: Check out Leiningen's subproject dependencies.
19:06	Raynes	You can also just do 'lein install' to install it in your local maven repo, where it will be usable from other projects like normal dependencies but only on your machine. You don't have to push it to an remote maven repo.
19:06	TimMc	and there are checkout-deps
19:06	TimMc	for a tight development loop
19:06	Raynes	TimMc: I think that's what I meant by subproject dependencies.
19:07	Raynes	I've still got cake on the brain.
19:07	TimMc	Oh good, I thought I had missed a mechanism.
19:09	mrevil	checkout dependencies may work, I can add the library that I'm hacking on as a git sub-module
19:09	mrevil	thanks!
19:09	amalloy	ihodes: no
19:10	Raynes	ihodes: You can write your own print method that will make Clojure print it prettily.
19:11	TimMc	or convert it into a pretty-printing data type
19:11	ihodes	Raynes, amalloy: yeah, that's not ideal though. i wonder what i was thinking... i could have sworn there was something i could do so calling str on a queue would work nicely...
19:11	ihodes	TimMc: what do you mean?
19:12	TimMc	Man, how do you even make them?
19:13	TimMc	&(into clojure.lang.PersistentQueue/EMPTY [1 2 3])
19:13	lazybot	⇒ #<PersistentQueue clojure.lang.PersistentQueue@6b58d153>
19:13	TimMc	&(vec (into clojure.lang.PersistentQueue/EMPTY [1 2 3]))
19:13	lazybot	⇒ [1 2 3]
19:14	ihodes	TimMc: ah that's what yo mean, haha. yeah, that's not ideal
19:15	amalloy	vec is expensive
19:15	amalloy	&(seq (into clojure.lang.PersistentQueue/EMPTY [1 2 3]))
19:15	lazybot	⇒ (1 2 3)
19:15	ihodes	&(time (seq (into clojure.lang.PersistentQueue/EMPTY [1 2 3])))
19:15	lazybot	⇒ "Elapsed time: 0.7737 msecs" (1 2 3)
19:15	ihodes	&(time (vec (into clojure.lang.PersistentQueue/EMPTY [1 2 3])))
19:15	lazybot	⇒ "Elapsed time: 0.462153 msecs" [1 2 3]
19:16	TimMc	ihodes: You're not going to get a meaningful benchmark that way.
19:16	Raynes	It's meaningful to him. Let him be.
19:16	Raynes	:p
19:16	devn	+1 :)
19:16	ihodes	TimMc: i know, just curious if there was an order of magnitude difference :) it wont' work for me anyway.
19:17	TimMc	1) Run it 10000 times to get HotSpot going, 2) make sure to walk both colls, 3) man, lazybot is like the worst benchmark platform.
19:17	TimMc	ihodes: If there is an order of magnitude difference, you're not going to see it that way.
19:17	ihodes	oh #2 is something i forget all too often.
19:17	TimMc	same here
19:18	TimMc	"Oh man, I can compute an infinite sequence of values in .003 seconds! Clojure ROCKS!"
19:18	ihodes	either way... there's no way to ... use something like `proxy` and improve on PersistentQueue.... hmmm damn
19:18	Raynes	TimMc, ihodes: He is very correct about lazybot not being a good benchmarking platform. clojail molests the the code and such.
19:19	amalloy	TimMc: but the point here is not to walk both colls. calling vec is eager and copies the whole thing even though you don't need to; seq is O(1) and gives you a sequential view from which to create your string
19:19	TimMc	Also, lazybot (and its computer) has other concurrent tasks.
19:20	TimMc	amalloy: I guess you have to ask it for the number of results you would in a real situation.
19:20	TimMc	ihodes: Forget everything that's been said -- if you need to know, benchmark the difference in place in your application. :-)
19:21	ihodes	haha, i really don't need to either way--I think i'm good
19:22	TimMc	amalloy: Hey, maybe you know the answer to this -- why is the CLJS compiler file-oriented?
19:22	amalloy	TimMc: fwiw, just timed calling str on (vec q) and (seq q) on a 1M-element queue. vec is about 33% slower (in what is still not a very good benchmark)
19:22	amalloy	man i don't know anything about cljs
19:22	TimMc	You were a recent committer, so I bugged you.
19:23	amalloy	but it's my impression that you can get it to output javascript to the repl. i saw chouser doing something like that at the conj
19:23	TimMc	You see what happens?
19:23	TimMc	Yeah, but can I? He's a wizard or something.
19:25	amalloy	TimMc: fwiw i just committed an impl of subvec, which really only required converting java to clojure - the cljs aspect was pretty minimal
21:14	TimMc	OK, found it: analyze and emits.
21:18	TimMc	Thinking back on the binding vs. lazy-seq thing... I guess that even if a lazy-seq call could capture the current bindings for later (and there weren't any other concerns), you wouldn't necessarily want to hold onto those objects.
21:33	accel	is ther esomething like ";" but coments out an entire region instead of a single line?
21:34	TimMc	There's #_ for entire forms
21:34	accel	http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1191628/block-comments-in-clojure
21:34	accel	wtf
21:34	accel	does that really work?
21:35	accel	ah, #_ is a reader macro?
21:35	accel	nice
21:35	guns	accel: I've got a vim macro that wraps current form with (comment)
21:35	guns	works nice
21:42	sirvaliance	Does lein have any sort of hot code reloading type features? For doing web dev, if would be nice not to have to restart the server everytime.
21:43	accel	err
21:43	accel	I have a confession to make
21:43	accel	I think I have fallen in love with the repl
21:44	technomancy	sirvaliance: you can either work with a swank/nailgun/nrepl server and reload from your editor or use the wrap-reload middleware (which is ring-specific)
21:45	sirvaliance	technomancy: Checking out wrap-reload now. Thanks
21:45	accel	dumb question: how can I attach an action listener to a JFrame?
21:45	accel	i.e. anytime when a key is pressed inside this JFrame,
21:45	accel	I want an event triggered
21:50	amalloy	$google java keylistener jframe
21:50	lazybot	[swing - Java KeyListener for JFrame is being unresponsive? - Stack ...] http://stackoverflow.com/questions/286727/java-keylistener-for-jframe-is-being-unresponsive
21:53	weavejester	sirvaliance: If you're using lein-ring, it should automatically reload modified files.
21:54	weavejester	Same for Noir, if memory serves.
21:55	sirvaliance	weavejester: Hi! I was just running lein run -m appname.web. First day actually building something with clojure. I will checkout lein-ring. Thanks
21:59	weavejester	sirvaliance: There's a page on the Ring wiki about different ways of doing interactive development in Ring
21:59	weavejester	sirvaliance: https://github.com/mmcgrana/ring/wiki/Interactive-Development
21:59	sirvaliance	weavejester: Oh awesome, I missed that :)
22:00	sirvaliance	What do you all recommend for template rendering? I am fond of pythons django/jinja style templating (inheritance, simple html files, etc).
22:02	sirvaliance	Also, what would be the best way to open files to render them, (some-template-render (slurp "some-template.html"))?
22:02	sirvaliance	Or is there a better way to manage template directories. None of the tutorials or examples seem to go there.
22:04	TimMc	sirvaliance: Enlive is one approach to templating, although I'm not exactly thrilled with the paucity of API docs.
22:04	sirvaliance	I like clostache, and I don't know how I feel about hiccup
22:04	sirvaliance	TimMc: Enlive as well, not to interesting...
22:06	sirvaliance	s/to/too
22:07	weavejester	Clostache looks most like Django's templates...
22:07	TimMc	I like the theory behind Enlive, but it's a bit hard to use.
22:07	TimMc	Once you have working Enlive code, though, it's pretty easy to read.
22:07	weavejester	I also have comb, which is essentially a Ruby erb clone.
22:08	weavejester	I've been meaning to use it for creating project skeletons.
22:10	duck1123	are there any good clojure libs for modifying clojure source files?
22:10	TimMc	I think I'm going to have to abandon work on try-clojurescript for now -- I just don't understand some of the compilations I'm getting back.
22:11	scottj	duck1123: I'm guessing the fs lib by Raynes has an rm command :)
22:11	TimMc	There's some real impedance mismatch between GClosure and the REPL model. :-/
22:12	tmciver	TimMc: I just start getting into the trycljs code and now you're going to abandon it? :(
22:12	TimMc	tmciver: For now, at least.
22:12	TimMc	CLJS is pretty fast-moving though, so it may not be very long until I'm back in it.
22:12	Raynes	scottj: Indeed, it does.
22:13	TimMc	tmciver: And other folks may continue hacking on it.
22:13	duck1123	scottj: I'm looking to make a code generator. adding requires to namespaces, adding lines in a form, adding functions to the end, etc
22:13	TimMc	tmciver: (comp/emits (comp/analyze {} '(def x 1))) gives me ".x = 1;\n"
22:13	tmciver	TimMc: well, I'm going to continue to look at it, for a little while anyway. I know almost nothing about cljs.
22:13	TimMc	Well, same here!
22:14	tmciver	TimMc: you're so modest!
22:14	TimMc	tmciver: But I'll keep the site running and updated: http://k.timmc.org:7013/
22:14	scottj	duck1123: no clue, maybe slamhound has something that might help an itsy bit
22:14	tmciver	TimMc: already there.
22:14	sirvaliance	I am going with clostache for now. I am rewriting an app from django to clojure. Don't want to rewrite all of the html
22:16	TimMc	duck1123: The tricky thing is to preserve the surface syntax, like #(foo).
22:18	duck1123	mostly I'm looking to append new functions and create files if they don't exist, nothing too heavy
22:18	sirvaliance	Back to rendering templates from files, what would be the best way to do it? Is slurp appropriate?
22:18	technomancy_	sirvaliance: slurp on clojure.java.io/resource
22:19	technomancy_	that way it doesn't matter whether you're running from a project checkout or a jar/war file in deployment
22:20	sirvaliance	technomancy_: Ahh, ok
22:22	TimMc	Oh hey, that's good to know.
22:23	Raynes	sirvaliance: Don't use clostache.
22:23	Raynes	Use stencil.
22:23	Raynes	Clostache is terribly broken and non-spec compliant.
22:24	Raynes	http://github.com/davidsantiago/stencil
22:24	weavejester	There's a spec?
22:24	Raynes	weavejester: Yesterjester.
22:25	Raynes	weavejester: Clostache breaks on basic examples.
22:25	weavejester	Ahh
22:25	Raynes	https://github.com/mustache/spec
22:25	sirvaliance	Raynes: Will do, thanks!
22:26	sirvaliance	Raynes: It caches and loads templates :)
22:27	TimMc	Oh man, I'm so excited -- for the first time, I actually have a reason to benchmark one of my programs and tweak the performance.
22:28	TimMc	Unfortunately, it's in Python, and I have a lot to learn about performance stuff in that language.
22:49	TimMc	YES! 40x speedup.
22:58	accel	Vars makes sense to me. Refs = trnsactions, I think. Why do I ever want Agents/Atoms?
22:59	technomancy_	accel: atoms are just less fancy
22:59	technomancy_	they're your vanilla reference type
23:00	TimMc	Non-coordinated single-writer, yeah?
23:00	TimMc	(That's probably a terrible way of characterizing it, sorry.)
23:00	Raynes	I wish it was clearer what that meant to the uninitiated.
23:03	TimMc	accel: atoms are thread-safe boxes you can hammer on, but they don't provide for coordination of multiple bits of state. refs give you true transactional capabilities -- you can hammer on more than one at a time and have guaranteed coordination of updates.
23:03	amalloy	accel: if you think vars make sense but you don't understand atoms, you're probably wrong about vars too
23:04	amalloy	atoms are really a lot simpler than vars: a single mutable pointer to an immutable value. you can change what value they point to in a thread-safe way, but not in a "transaction-y" way
23:07	TimMc	amalloy: What happens if you swap! an atom while in a dosync that has to be retried?
23:07	amalloy	then you'll swap! it a few more times
23:07	amalloy	changing it every time: no transaction safety
23:08	TimMc	OK, so it's a "side-effect" sensu dosync.
23:08	amalloy	$dict sensu
23:08	lazybot	amalloy: Word not found.
23:08	TimMc	but agents are safe to hammer on in a dosync, yeah?
23:08	TimMc	amalloy: "in the sense of"
23:08	amalloy	yes, send doesn't actually do anything until the current transaction (if any) completes
23:10	amalloy	okay, finally understood what you meant by "in the sense of" here. yes: swap! should be treated with as much care as any side effects, when inside a transaction
23:11	accel	is there a way to just read the value of a ref
23:11	accel	without using a dosync?
23:11	amalloy	@
23:11	accel	oh
23:11	accel	I'km an idiot
23:12	accel	can I also simplify the following 3 lines?
23:12	accel	(dosync
23:12	accel	(let [o @curline]
23:12	accel	(ref-set curline (str o (.getKeyChar e)))))
23:12	accel	basically I'm saying "append this one char to this ref"
23:13	TimMc	&(doc alter)
23:13	lazybot	⇒ "([ref fun & args]); Must be called in a transaction. Sets the in-transaction-value of ref to: (apply fun in-transaction-value-of-ref args) and returns the in-transaction-value of ref."
23:13	hiredman	~alter
23:13	clojurebot	alter is always correct
23:13	TimMc	amalloy: Do you know of a more idiomatic way of getting a snapshot of multiple refs than (let [[x y] (dosync [@x @y])] ...)?
23:14	amalloy	(dosycn (alter curline str (.getKeyChar e)))
23:14	amalloy	no, i don't. i don't really use refs that often, but that looks like the best solution, TimMc
23:15	TimMc	I guess one could make a macro (with-snapshot [x y] ...)
23:15	amalloy	wait, except yours might not work, TimMc
23:16	amalloy	you might need to use [(ensure x) (ensure y)]? i'm not really clear on the difference between ensure and @
23:16	amalloy	hiredman can probably tell us if i'm totally wrong
23:16	TimMc	I think I don't need ensure since I'm not modifying anything.
23:18	TimMc	&(doc ensure)
23:18	lazybot	⇒ "([ref]); Must be called in a transaction. Protects the ref from modification by other transactions. Returns the in-transaction-value of ref. Allows for more concurrency than (ref-set ref @ref)"
23:18	accel	cool cool cool
23:18	accel	I am happy with this
23:18	accel	very very good
23:18	accel	now, for even better
23:19	accel	is there a way in java graphics to render high quality vector graphics/
23:19	accel	is this done with the graphics 2d api, or something else?
23:19	accel	by high quality, I want anti aliasiing, and all that neat stuff
23:19	TimMc	Ensure is to prevent "write skew", IIRC.
23:19	TimMc	accel: For anti-aliasing you can turn on some Graphics2D options.
23:20	amalloy	yeah, it's like setRenderingHint or something
23:21	TimMc	amalloy: Here's a great explanation of where ensure is needed: http://clojure.higher-order.net/?p=50
23:23	amalloy	yeah, i've read it. i just use refs so rarely, and ensure never, that it doesn't really click/stick
23:23	amalloy	and then i go around recommending cargo-cult ensures, apparently, just in case
23:27	accel	are these objects: (svgGraphics2D) http://xmlgraphics.apache.org/batik/using/svg-generator.html viewable as GUI elemnts?
23:29	accel	cool cool i'm almost there
23:29	accel	so I need a blinking timer
23:29	accel	I'm using awt/swing
23:29	accel	what is the right way to do this?
23:29	accel	should I set a timer
23:29	accel	and constantly flip the value of a string?
23:32	TimMc	accel: Use a timer from util or whatever.
23:33	amalloy	seems like changing the value of a string is crazy, just change the color of something