#clojure – 2011-12-06

2011-12-06

00:06	devn	Raynes: #chicken
00:19	devn	http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/samth/
00:19	devn	^-Great page with lots about typed Racket
00:20	spoon16	guidance question
00:21	spoon16	I have a function with a parameter… I'd like the caller to be able to call the function with different types as the value for the param String, enum instance, or keyword
00:22	spoon16	what is the idiomatic way of normalizing that parameter?
00:22	spoon16	right now I'm thinking (fn [p] (let [np (normalize-param p)] (println p)))
00:26	spoon16	(defn normalize-param [p] (cond (instance? String) p (instance? Keyword) (name p) (instance? EnumType) (.valueOf p)))
00:26	spoon16	good, bad, ugly?
00:28	cgag	i'm interested in the answer that as well
00:44	amalloy	spoon16: you only want to switch on type/class?
00:45	spoon16	amalloy, yes
00:45	amalloy	(defprotocol MyParam (fix-up [x])) (extend-protocol MyParam, String (fix-up [x] x), clojure.lang.Named (fix-up [x] (name x))) and so on
00:46	spoon16	I thought that might be the way to go
00:46	amalloy	that dispatch is fast and also extensible by clients
00:46	spoon16	in my mind protocols are heavier and I struggle to understand when they should be used
00:46	spoon16	ok
00:49	amalloy	spoon16: fwiw, if you were to write it as a cond, a condp would be clearer and shorter: (condp instance? x, String x, clojure.lang.Named (name x))
00:50	spoon16	nice
00:50	spoon16	didn't know about condp
00:50	spoon16	thanks
01:07	spoon16	amalloy: https://gist.github.com/1436973
01:07	spoon16	is that right?
01:08	amalloy	spoon16: sure, though the duplication in kw/string is gross. just have the keyword impl depend on the string impl: (country-id [c] (country-id (name c)))
01:09	spoon16	good thinking
01:09	spoon16	fixed
03:45	Blkt	good morning everyone
03:46	ejackson	Hello hello.
03:51	Blkt	:D
05:05	Fossi	grrr. hitting a bug/quirk in deftype/method_impl_cache again
05:05	Fossi	somehow our appengine app sometimes seems to reload incompletely :/
05:16	kral	namaste
05:18	ejackson	and good luck !
06:22	ambrosebs	,(let [form '(+ 1 1)] `~form)
06:22	clojurebot	(+ 1 1)
06:22	ambrosebs	how can I get (clojure.core/+ 1 1) from that?
06:22	ambrosebs	ie. qualified symbols
06:24	clgv	ambrosebs: you can map resolve on the symbos of the form
06:24	clgv	&(resolve '+)
06:24	lazybot	java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! resolve is bad!
06:25	clgv	,(resolve '+)
06:25	clojurebot	#'clojure.core/+
06:25	ambrosebs	sounds like a job for walk
06:25	clgv	in case it's nested, yes ;)
06:26	ambrosebs	clgv: yes, its general
08:32	ambrosebs	how can I get the namespace of a var?
08:34	samaaron	so i /n
08:34	yangsx	,(namespace +)
08:35	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.core$_PLUS_ cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Named>
08:35	ambrosebs	,(namespace #'+)
08:35	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.Var cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Named>
08:35	ambrosebs	that's more what I'm after
08:35	ambrosebs	,(str #'+)
08:35	clojurebot	"#'clojure.core/+"
08:36	raek	,(.symbol #'+)
08:36	clojurebot	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching field found: symbol for class clojure.lang.Var>
08:36	raek	,(.sym #'+)
08:36	clojurebot	+
08:36	raek	,(.ns #'+)
08:36	clojurebot	#<Namespace clojure.core>
08:37	ambrosebs	:)
08:37	ambrosebs	what I really want is converting the var to a symbol
08:37	ambrosebs	I assumed there was no direct way
08:38	raek	https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/Var.java#L128
08:39	raek	,(symbol (.name (.ns #'+)) (.sym #'+))
08:39	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.Symbol cannot be cast to java.lang.String>
08:39	ambrosebs	raek: excellent
08:39	raek	,(symbol (.name (.ns #'+)) (str (.sym #'+)))
08:39	clojurebot	#<ClassCastException java.lang.ClassCastException: clojure.lang.Symbol cannot be cast to java.lang.String>
08:39	raek	,(symbol (str (.name (.ns #'+))) (str (.sym #'+)))
08:39	clojurebot	clojure.core/+
08:39	ambrosebs	raek: awesome!
08:40	raek	feels a bit hackish
08:40	ambrosebs	these are dark corners of Clojure, symbol manipulation/conversion
08:41	raek	btw, what is this scenario when you need to go from var to symbol?
08:41	ambrosebs	I'm writing a static type checker
08:41	clojurebot	http://www.assembla.com/wiki/show/clojure/Datatypes
08:41	lazybot	Assembla is deprecated. Use http://dev.clojure.org
08:41	raek	correctionbot...
08:42	Borkdude	,`+
08:42	clojurebot	clojure.core/+
08:42	ambrosebs	I'm basically attempting to resolve a symbol to see if it already refers to a var
08:43	ambrosebs	because I add my type annotations before each function is defined
08:43	raek	but then you already have the symbol?
08:43	ambrosebs	raek: :) I'll get my thoughts together in a gist
08:44	Borkdude	,(doc resolve)
08:44	clojurebot	"([sym] [env sym]); same as (ns-resolve ns symbol) or (ns-resolve ns &env symbol)"
08:45	ambrosebs	hmm yes, I'm probably solving the wrong problem
08:45	ambrosebs	although I did try resolve, I can't remember why I didn't use it
08:45	ambrosebs	back to the drawing board..
08:45	raek	ambrosebs: do you know about the magical &env macro argument?
08:45	ambrosebs	yes
08:46	ambrosebs	give me a minute, resolve should work...
08:47	raek	so with resolve and &env, you should be able to chck whether a symbol represents a var, and if so get access to it
08:47	raek	(and its metadat)
08:47	raek	resolve returns nil if the symbols is a local
08:47	raek	*symbol
08:48	ambrosebs	I'm maintaining a map from qualified symbols to types
08:48	ambrosebs	all I want is to work out if an unqualified symbol (which I know is global) points to an existing var
08:49	ambrosebs	and then add the qualified symbol to the map
08:49	raek	(resolve 'foo)
08:49	raek	,(resolve 'foo)
08:49	clojurebot	nil
08:49	raek	,(resolve 'conj)
08:49	clojurebot	#'clojure.core/conj
08:49	ambrosebs	yes, resolve looks perfect
08:49	ambrosebs	it should work
08:49	raek	beware of classes:
08:49	raek	,(resolve 'Object)
08:49	clojurebot	java.lang.Object
08:50	raek	resolve returns either nil, a var, or a class
08:51	ambrosebs	oh
08:52	raek	to handle these cases you could write a protocol and extend it for nil, clojure.lang.Var, and java.lang.Class
08:53	raek	well, this is just an implementation detail. there are other ways to do it too :-)
08:54	ambrosebs	Should my global type map be from symbols to types?
08:54	ambrosebs	my rationale was that if a var is uninterned, I'd need a symbol to represent the var anyway
08:56	raek	how do you represent types of functions?
08:57	raek	and when do you populate this global map?
08:57	raek	sound like you are adding type information for vars before they are defined
08:58	ambrosebs	raek: yes, that correct
08:59	ambrosebs	function types are a deftype with a field of a list of arities
09:00	ambrosebs	(Fn (IntegerT IntegerT -> IntegerT) (FloatT -> FloatT))
09:02	raek	one neat thing that clojure offers is that you can store metadata on vars
09:02	raek	to me var metadata sounds like a good place to keep type information for a global value
09:03	clgv	ambrosebs: you are adding typechecks to clojure?
09:03	ambrosebs	raek: here's what I want type annotations to look like
09:03	ambrosebs	https://github.com/frenchy64/typed-clojure/blob/master/src/typed_clojure/core.clj#L262
09:04	ambrosebs	clgv: :)
09:04	ambrosebs	T adds a type annotation at compile time
09:05	raek	ambrosebs: you can use ater-meta! to attach that type info directly on the var
09:05	raek	just intern it first
09:06	ambrosebs	can you intern vars from different namespaces?
09:07	ambrosebs	ooo that's cool
09:07	raek	(defmacro T [s ...] `(do (intern ns ~s)) (alter-meta (resolve ~s) assoc :type ...)))
09:07	ambrosebs	that won't work, I want it at compile time
09:07	raek	there are multiple ways to do this
09:08	raek	you can intern the var in the macro, you can do it in the code that the macro expands to
09:08	ambrosebs	interesting
09:09	raek	(defmacro T [s ...] (do (intern ns s) `(alter-meta ~(resolve s) assoc :type ...)))
09:09	ambrosebs	if I intern a var, will a (def ..) override the definition?
09:09	raek	or even (defmacro T [s ...] (do (intern ns s) (alter-meta (resolve s) assoc :type ...) nil))
09:09	raek	ambrosebs: yes
09:09	raek	,(doc intern)
09:09	clojurebot	"([ns name] [ns name val]); Finds or creates a var named by the symbol name in the namespace ns (which can be a symbol or a namespace), setting its root binding to val if supplied. The namespace must exist. The var will adopt any metadata from the name symbol. Returns the var."
09:10	raek	def always overwrite the var value
09:10	raek	but it keeps any old metadata
09:11	ambrosebs	raek: I guess I'm only interested in the metadata
09:11	raek	I guess you want T to not change the value (if it exists), but always change the metadata
09:12	ambrosebs	exactly
09:14	raek	ambrosebs: "The var will adopt any metadata from the name symbol." <-- this only seems to be the case when the var didn't exist before the call to intern. you might need to use alter-meta!.
09:16	ambrosebs	is a var is mutable? are any changes global side effects?
09:20	clgv	I would love "function arity inference" in the clojure compiler. that should be possible in most cases.
09:21	clgv	that would eliminate a lot of runtime errors when refactoring code
09:22	clgv	or plain writing new code and making arity errors^^
09:44	raek	ambrosebs: yes. when you call def, intern, alter-var-root!, or alter-meta! you directly mutate the var
09:45	raek	these mutations should not happen after the application is initialized, though
09:45	raek	(except when you are fixing bugs)
09:48	ambrosebs	raek: I wonder if keeping a separate map has advantages?
09:48	ambrosebs	it seems redundant now you've mentioned the metadata on vars
09:50	ambrosebs	what about adding type metadata to Classes? I haven't thought it through myself
09:51	raek	Classes cannot have metadata
09:52	ambrosebs	it seems a global map from symbols to types would generalize var and class type annotations
09:53	raek	but you could think of a Class as a typedefinition...
09:53	ambrosebs	exactly :)
09:53	ambrosebs	you can see I haven't thought that far
09:54	raek	if the type (in your system) of a Class is always the same, you don't need to store any type info on the class itself
09:54	raek	you only need a function from Class to type
09:55	ambrosebs	ah
09:55	ambrosebs	that makes sense
09:56	ambrosebs	yes, it's just a value
09:56	raek	exactly
09:56	ambrosebs	aha :)
09:57	licenser	Raynes: just reading your post to tentacles :) nicely written
09:59	ambrosebs	raek: I was confused by intern returning classes
10:00	ambrosebs	raek: hmm
10:00	ambrosebs	I think I got that wrong
10:00	ambrosebs	I meant resolve
10:01	raek	it might be simpler to just ignore the java interop parts of clojure in the beginning
10:01	ambrosebs	yes
10:02	ambrosebs	are local bindings vars too?
10:03	raek	no
10:04	raek	but the compiler will give you a map of all locals in &env, so they are easy to recognize
10:05	raek	hrm. the env parameter of resolve must have been added in clojure 1.3
10:07	ambrosebs	that's cool
10:08	ambrosebs	I'm using the ClojureScript analyzer to parse the forms. I could probably use the env info the analyzer gives
10:09	Bahman	Hi all!
10:11	raek	it's really amazing that you can add these kind of features to a language in the form of a library
10:12	ambrosebs	raek: oh yea, generalizing the analyzer a little, and this kind of thing will be very nice
10:12	ambrosebs	It requires surprisingly few changes to analyze Clojure code
10:15	ambrosebs	It's mostly deleting code, too
10:47	ambrosebs	raek: metadata in vars seems to work nicely
10:56	licenser	so quiet!
11:01	goodiebo_	is there a built-in functions for inverting a hash-map?
11:06	raek	goodiebo_: yes, check out clojure.set/map-invert
11:07	goodiebo_	raek: perfect thanks
11:11	goodiebo_	how about a function that will replace keys using another map? (replace-keys {:id [1 2]} {:id :ID}) => {:ID [1 2]} ?
11:13	goodiebo_	ahh walk/prewalk-replace works nicely
11:14	blakesmith	If I have a RandomAccessFile, is there a function that will read n bytes from the file and return a list of bytes?
11:14	goodiebo_	hmm no, i don't want it to be recursive like walk does. Just one level...
11:37	blakesmith	To follow up on my earlier question, is there a more idiomatic way to achieve this? https://gist.github.com/1438863
11:38	nachtalp	blakesmith: you want to read exactly n bytes from the stream?
11:38	blakesmith	Yes.
11:41	jlf	hi all, i encountered a problem in clojure-mode version 1.11.4 (from marmalade) where clojure-jack-in was failing due to the (search-forward "(run-hooks 'slime-load-hook) ; on port") form in clojure-eval-bootstrap-region failing. i worked around it by changing the search expression, which got me to the repl, but i'm wondering if this is a known issue or if some other code might be stale and causing this search failure.
11:42	nachtalp	blakesmith: one moment...
11:47	blakesmith	nachtalp: I found line-seq, which allows you to use 'take' for the number of lines. Is there something akin that allows you to 'take' a number of bytes?
11:48	nachtalp	blakesmith: the problem is that nothing in inputstream guarantees that you can read a certain number of bytes - also, your code doesn't check for the return value -1 (ie end of stream)
11:48	blakesmith	Ah, good call.
11:49	nachtalp	blakesmith: there's the possibility to read directly into a byte array, but that also doesn't guarantee that the array will be filled after reading...
11:55	blakesmith	nachtalp: I guess I was going for something like Ruby's IO#read. http://www.ruby-doc.org/core-1.8.7/IO.html#method-c-read. I'm trying to learn the more idiomatic Clojure way to do file i/o with bytes.
11:55	blakesmith	As opposed to reading lines, which doesn't work for the file type I'm trying to read.
12:09	nachtalp	blakesmith: i'm not aware of a built-in that does that, so you might be stuck with java interop there..
12:10	blakesmith	Cool, thanks a ton for your help!
12:38	manutter	hrmph, can't seem to get off the ground with cgrand's parsley
12:39	manutter	does the phrase "shift/reduce conflict" send a chill down anyone else's spine? :)
12:39	manutter	I'm just trying to write a simple parser to read a comma-separated list of words: "foo" or "foo,bar" or "foo,bar,baz"
12:40	manutter	can't seem to find any parsley grammar that does anything but throw shift/reduce exceptions on compile.
12:46	tmountain	is there a way to determine which protocols a given record implements?
12:49	manutter	hmm, there's satisfies?, if you know a specific protocol you want to look for
12:50	manutter	tmountain: ^^
12:51	tmountain	manutter: that's exactly what I was looking for, thanks!
12:51	manutter	cool :)
13:03	manutter	woot, figured out parsley: (p/parse :list #{:word [:list "," :word]}, :word #"a-z")
13:03	manutter	I was trying [:word "," :list], but that's the shift/reduce gotcha. The list has to come first.
14:01	goodieboy	what would be the most idiomatic way to change keys like this? {:1 11 :2 22} => {1 11 2 22}
14:02	Raynes	&(into {} (for [[k v] {:1 11 :2 22}] [(name k) v]))
14:02	lazybot	⇒ {"1" 11, "2" 22}
14:02	Raynes	Well.
14:02	Raynes	Close enough.
14:02	technomancy	clojure.walk/stringify-keys
14:03	goodieboy	ahh i see
14:03	technomancy	err--wait no
14:03	technomancy	there's no numericize-keys
14:03	Raynes	&(into {} (for [[k v] {:1 11 :2 22}] [(Long. (name k)) v]))
14:03	lazybot	⇒ {1 11, 2 22}
14:03	goodieboy	yeah that's it ok
14:03	Raynes	I really just didn't want to make that LONGer. Get it, LONGer?
14:03	goodieboy	eheh :)
14:03	goodieboy	thanks!
14:06	technomancy	clojurebot: core?
14:06	clojurebot	idiomatic clojure uses dashes to separate words
14:06	technomancy	clojurebot: core is what you put in a namespace when you can't think of a better way to avoid single-segment namespaces.
14:06	clojurebot	You don't have to tell me twice.
14:06	technomancy	^ fair?
14:07	licenser	technomancy Raynes a loa :) I have a new bright idea for lein - even so I am not sure if it is possible with the underlaying maven stuff
14:08	licenser	how about 'optional dependencies' like if I use clojureql I will most likely either want postgres or mysql drivers, how if it would be possible to give such kind of options in your project.clj (in this case for clojureql)
14:09	technomancy	licenser: I've thought of that, but I can't think of a good way for consumers to specify which one they want that's any better than just adding the dependency for themselves
14:09	technomancy	I think it's a documentation issue more than anything else.
14:10	licenser	it is, so it still would be cool
14:10	technomancy	if a dependency is optional, you don't get it unless you specify that you want it. if you specify that you want it, what's the point of the optional dependency?
14:10	licenser	you could give them a simple text choice: hey we suggest you install 1) postgres-jdbc 2) mysql-jdbc 0) don't do anything.
14:10	technomancy	I don't want dependency fetching to ever be an interactive task.
14:11	technomancy	it needs to work reliably unattended
14:11	licenser	I can understand that :)
14:11	technomancy	I wish I had a good solution to the problem though, because I understand where you're coming from.
14:12	licenser	how about integrating it into lein search?
14:12	licenser	as in make lein search interactive
14:12	licenser	or allow it to be interactive
14:12	licenser	could even do incremental search stuff or so ^^
14:12	zerokarmaleft	technomancy: was it you that opined that satnav was a better word than GPS?
14:13	technomancy	zerokarmaleft: yeah. also the British pronunciation of "dancing" puts ours to shame.
14:13	technomancy	licenser: yeah, maybe lein search could drill down into focusing on a specific artifact or something?
14:13	licenser	nods
14:13	zerokarmaleft	technomancy: excellent, then you'll love this => http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMiLQwKLSQM
14:13	osa1	I'm being disconnected from SLIME instantly when I run `clojure-jack-in`, anyone has any ideas?
14:14	technomancy	zerokarmaleft: aw yeah; nice
14:14	osa1	I'm using this version: http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/
14:14	licenser	like you run lein search --interactive (to preserve the old behavior) and get a input where you can start typing and it starts filtering the artifacts it knows slowly then when you have found what you want you 'select' it and it presents you with the option to add it, or select some 'optional' dependencies
14:15	licenser	clojure-jack-in is really great if it works :P
14:16	licenser	osa1: sorry no clue I am always happy when it works and just clean and restart everything if it doesn't
14:17	technomancy	osa1: jack-in is meant to only support a single connection at a time
14:18	technomancy	so it should drop your connections while it starts a new one.
14:18	osa1	technomancy: I'm running emacs, opening a project, and then M-x clojure-jack-in. I have only one connection
14:19	technomancy	you mean it connects successfully and then disconnects?
14:20	osa1	I updated swank-clojure via and now I can't start swank server(got stuck in "Starting swank server...")
14:20	osa1	technomancy: yeah
14:20	technomancy	make sure you're on the latest clojure-mode (1.11.4) and swank-clojure (1.3.3) and paste the contents of swank, I guess
14:21	osa1	ok, now I'm upgrading lein..
14:21	osa1	(I'm not sure why I'm doing that..)
14:21	licenser	osa1: because you are desperate ;)
14:21	osa1	whatever, let's upgrade clojure-mode
14:21	licenser	also update your BIOS when you are at it ^^
14:26	jlf	osa1: do you see something like ``error in process filter: Search failed: "(run-hooks 'slime-load-hook) ; on port"'' in Messages by chance?
14:27	osa1	jlf: no
14:27	jlf	so much for that theory
14:28	osa1	great, and now I'm getting huge java traceback when I run lein
14:28	osa1	reinstall!
14:29	technomancy	osa1: make sure you have only one swank-clojure in ~/.lein/plugins
14:29	technomancy	there was a bug in earlier versions of lein that allowed two to sneak in there and mess things up
14:29	osa1	actually I've just deleted ~/.lein
14:30	osa1	I'm reinstalling rightnow
14:30	osa1	right now*
14:34	osa1	technomancy: here's the error I'm getting with updated swank-clojure and clojure-mode: http://imgur.com/hxe50
14:34	technomancy	that's not an error
14:34	osa1	so is it ok? because my clojure repl's not working
14:35	osa1	I'm still getting disconnected after a few seconds on repl
14:35	technomancy	wait, did you say you installed slime from common-lisp.net?
14:35	osa1	technomancy: yes, I'm using it for common lisp
14:36	technomancy	osa1: that's not going to work; you need a specific version for clojure.
14:36	technomancy	jack-in will load that version, but if you have additional config for a different version it could easily interfere
14:36	osa1	technomancy: hmm, can I use this version for common lisp and clojure specific version for clojure?
14:36	osa1	2 slime installations
14:37	technomancy	I don't know the specifics about CL, but the best way to do it is to just not load any CL-specific code at Emacs launch time; load it when you're going to work on CL
14:38	technomancy	a single Emacs instance can't have both versions loaded, but running M-x clojure-jack-in will load in the clojure one on-demand, so all you have to do is get the CL stuff out of the way and don't try to use them both in the same instance
14:39	osa1	technomancy: I don't think I'm this good at emacs, maybe I can just copy different slime folders while I'm working on clojure or common lisp(since I'm not working with both at the same time)
14:40	technomancy	osa1: you don't need any Emacs configuration for clojure apart from clojure-mode
14:44	osa1	technomancy: sorry, I didn't get it, this page https://github.com/technomancy/swank-clojure says swank-clojure lets SLIME connect clojure projects and links to common-lisp.net's SLIME page, I installed my SLIME from linked page, and still can't connect to SLIME, what should I do?
14:45	technomancy	osa1: don't install your own copy of slime, just use the one that comes with swank-clojure
14:45	technomancy	I'll fix the readme to remove that link, since it's a bit misleading
14:46	osa1	ok, I'm commenting my slime configuration in my emacs config
14:47	osa1	technomancy: great, it worked! thank you very much
14:48	osa1	now all I need is finding a way to use my slime installation when I'm working with common lisp, maybe I should ask in #emacs
14:48	osa1	wow, my autocomplete settings are working too :)
14:50	osa1	how can I load repl-utils in clojure 1.3?
14:56	zerokarmaleft	(use 'clojure.repl)
15:42	PPaul	is there something like clojure.walk for javascript?
15:56	ckirkendall`	PPaul: treewalker
15:56	ckirkendall`	or nodeiterator
15:56	PPaul	thanks!
15:56	PPaul	cus i'm rolling my own and sucking at it
15:57	ckirkendall`	PPaul: only problem it only works in newer browsers
15:57	PPaul	that's no good
15:58	PPaul	clojure's walk is like 100 lines of code for 10 functions
15:58	PPaul	it can't be so much more difficult in js
15:58	PPaul	even a less featured version will do
15:58	PPaul	also, i don't care about the DOM
15:58	PPaul	if that means anything
15:59	brehaut	PPaul: it's almost an inherintly sucky thing to have to write in JS given the difficulty of working out what the type of anything is
15:59	PPaul	i know
15:59	PPaul	i know :(
15:59	PPaul	there aren't too many types, though
15:59	PPaul	i'm using underscore, so that's sorta taken care of
16:00	lucian	using CoffeeScript also helps
16:01	lucian	not knowing the type of something isn't necessarily bad, seeing how object construction works in javascript
16:01	PPaul	i rather use clojure script than coffee script
16:01	lucian	for me, the terrible bits are 1) lack of ints with automatic promotion to bigints and 2) implicit type coercions
16:02	PPaul	i've seen coffee script stuff, and i don't think it's much of an improvement over js
16:02	ckirkendall`	PPaul: what type do you need to support
16:02	lucian	PPaul: it keeps the good bits
16:02	PPaul	i don't need to support types, someone else brought this up :P
16:02	PPaul	i need to walk
16:03	PPaul	i can walk, i have a demo working using a transformer that returns it's node.... but when i start doing real transformations stuff fucks up
16:03	PPaul	makes me want to use clojue :)
16:03	abaranosky_	does anyone have suggestions for how the Midje learning experience (tutorials, examples, doc, etc) could be improved? We'd like to hear your thoughts: http://groups.google.com/group/midje/browse_thread/thread/5c27253f3fdb53b6
16:04	ckirkendall`	PPaul: clojurescript included clojure.walk
16:04	PPaul	i know
16:05	lucian	PPaul: just use that then, if you dislike JS that much
16:06	PPaul	i will attempt to
16:06	PPaul	got some big projects in js now...
16:16	ckirkendall`	Is there anyone out there that knows a good way to unit test clojurescript code?
16:19	jcromartie	this is useful: (defn shuffles [coll] (lazy-seq (concat (shuffle coll) (shuffles coll))))
16:21	hiredman	jcromartie: (mapcat shuffle (repeat coll))
16:21	jcromartie	I didn't realize mapcat was lazy
16:21	jcromartie	nice
16:21	jcromartie	you win
16:24	PPaul	most of the seq functions are lazy
16:38	y3di	you cant interact with java libraries in clojureCLR right?
16:39	babilen	Hi all. I am looking for a good way/library to deal with file paths. I am under the impression that I want to use Java 7's Path, but unfortunately (Paths/get "/etc") does not work, while (Paths/get (URI/create "file:///etc")) does. Apart from that I am also not sure if I really want to introduce a dependency on Java 7. What's the common approach in the Clojure community?
16:40	babilen	I am probably doing something wrong with (Paths/get "/etc") and would like to understand why it throws a "java.lang.String cannot be cast to java.net.URI" exception as well.
16:40	technomancy	babilen: depends on what you need that java.io.File doesn't provide, I guess
16:42	babilen	technomancy: Well, I'd like to be able to normalise paths, join them, access system specific information such as User's home directories, ...
16:42	goodieboy	anyone know of a good validation library/dsl, something to be used in a web app?
16:42	ibdknox	goodieboy: Noir includes a validation library
16:42	technomancy	babilen: clojure.java.io/file can join; .getAbsolutePath can normalize, and (System/getProperty "user.home") will get you the third =)
16:43	amalloy	File does all of those things, except that it's not clear what "joining" paths means
16:43	goodieboy	ibdknox: I'll check that out thanks
16:43	technomancy	or maybe .getCanonicalPath?
16:43	amalloy	technomancy: probably canonical
16:43	ibdknox	goodieboy: http://webnoir.org/tutorials/forms
16:44	amalloy	depends what he wants, i guess
16:44	technomancy	it does raise a good point that there's not really a way to specify dependence on jdk 1.7
16:45	goodieboy	ibdknox: interesting thanks. i'll give it a try
16:46	babilen	amalloy, technomancy: Ok, great. By joining paths I essentially mean something that would behave like (join "/etc/" "X11") → "/etc/X11" - I am also a bit used to the following behaviour (join "/etc/X11" "/usr/local" "bin") → "/usr/local/bin" but that is no requirement
16:46	technomancy	babilen: yeah, c.j.io/file will raise an exception if anything but the first arg is absolute
16:47	technomancy	apart from that you should be god
16:47	technomancy	good
16:47	ibdknox	lol
16:47	ibdknox	technomancy: can I be god?
16:47	babilen	Normalise would do something like (normalise "~/bin/../lib") → "/home/$USER/lib"
16:47	technomancy	"behold my godlike powers of ... being able to construct portable file paths!"
16:47	amalloy	babilen: that's basically canonicalization, except i don't think it does ~ substitution
16:48	technomancy	babilen: there's no support for $USER or ~ afaik though
16:48	amalloy	because ~ is a valid filename character; converting it is something your shell does, not the filesystem
16:48	pjstadig	JVM is not unix
16:48	technomancy	which is dumb
16:48	pjstadig	JNU?
16:49	babilen	I don't think it does. I can happily use c.j.io/file, just wanted to ask if I am just not seeing the obvious.
16:49	babilen	amalloy: I agree
16:49	ibdknox	all permutations up to 5 letters are taken I believe
16:49	amalloy	technomancy: plz to propose alternative? i think (java.io.File. "~") has to represent a file named ~ inside your cwd
16:50	technomancy	amalloy: probably the way to go is to have a convenience method plus a low-level method that treats everything literally
16:50	ibdknox	amalloy: (defn awesomer-file [f] ....
16:50	amalloy	ibdknox: are you saying all 26^5 five-letter domain names are registered?
16:51	ibdknox	for .com, I believe so
16:51	ibdknox	it may be 4
16:51	amalloy	i just checked slkur.com/org, and that is free for the taking
16:51	technomancy	not for long!
16:51	ibdknox	lol
16:52	amalloy	hm. same for slku.com. that is, the dns lookup failed. is there something wrong with my methodology or are you just wrong?
16:52	babilen	Ok, any idea why (Paths/get "/etc") throws the aforementioned exception?
16:52	ibdknox	amalloy: doesn't mean they point anywhere
16:52	amalloy	babilen: usually when someone has this issue it's because jdk7 has vararg methods you're using wrong
16:53	ibdknox	amalloy: http://www.dotsauce.com/2007/11/02/four-letter-domains-all-registered/
16:53	ibdknox	dated 2007
16:53	amalloy	yeah, i see they have a whois
16:53	babilen	amalloy: That is indeed the case (vararg method) - But where is my mistake?
16:53	ibdknox	amalloy: and a better way to determine if a domain is owned
16:53	ibdknox	http://domai.nr/
16:54	amalloy	ibdknox: if i owned all these retarded names i'd at least have the decency to resolve them to 127.0.0.1
16:54	ibdknox	haha
16:54	ibdknox	amalloy: those jackasses should be required to have a legitimate site or give them up :p
16:54	jcromartie	(defn expand-path [p] (.replace p "~" (get (System/getenv) "HOME")))
16:54	jcromartie	done
16:55	ibdknox	wink: what do you have?
16:55	babilen	jcromartie: Ta
16:55	amalloy	jcromartie: ~amalloy/foo
16:55	jcromartie	amalloy: who does that?
16:55	jcromartie	nobody
16:55	jcromartie	that's who
16:55	ibdknox	lol
16:55	amalloy	wrong, bro
16:55	ibdknox	could just check if there's a slash after it
16:55	amalloy	and also, that is unix-only. you want (System/getProperty "user.home")
16:55	ibdknox	go go regex
16:55	wink	ibdknox: f5n.org (and also .de)
16:56	amalloy	wink: three-"letter"
16:56	wink	pfff :)
16:56	ibdknox	yeah :p
16:56	wink	character then
16:56	amalloy	~vararg
16:56	clojurebot	It's greek to me.
16:57	amalloy	clojurebot: Vararg methods on the JVM \|are\| really just methods that take an array of the appropriate type as the last argument. To call them, you need to construct an array (say, String[]) with into-array, and pass that.
16:57	clojurebot	Ik begrijp
16:57	amalloy	babilen: ^
16:57	ibdknox	~vararg
16:57	clojurebot	Vararg methods on the JVM are really just methods that take an array of the appropriate type as the last argument. To call them, you need to construct an array (say, String[]) with into-array, and pass that.
16:58	amalloy	man, suddenly i'm tempted to surround that into-array with a ##doc so lazybot will chime in too. pretty sure that's a bad idea
16:58	ibdknox	amalloy: we have to stall the singularity as long as possible
16:58	babilen	amalloy: That feels wrong, but thanks a lot! (I would have expected it to work as above)
16:59	amalloy	well. you can expect what you want, but vararg methods are not real
17:02	TimMc	timmc.org was the smallest I could get.
17:02	TimMc	tim.mc would probably require establishing a corporation in Monaco, and I don't speak French.
17:03	ibdknox	apparently all the chris grangers of the world are either basketball team managers or photographers and they all wanted websites :p
17:04	amalloy	babilen: you can wrap that up in a macro or function, if you want
17:04	ibdknox	chris-granger.com was the best I could do
17:05	licenser	watching Tron I kind of feel bad about using the garbage collector :(
17:05	ibdknox	lol
17:06	babilen	amalloy: Well, I will not use it as I don't want to depend on 7, but follow your suggestions above. Just wanted to understand what I was doing wrong so that I can deal with similar situations in the future.
17:06	TimMc	licenser: Let's set up a "home for retired objects" in your RAM.
17:06	licenser	TimMc: yes something like that, I mean perhaps we can make like a retirement home on taps or something along the line
17:06	amalloy	(defn real-varargs [f required-count] (fn [& args] (let [[before after] (split-at required-count args)] (apply f (concat before [(into-array after)]))))) (def paths (real-varargs #(Paths/get % %2) 1)) or something like that
17:07	licenser	or we ship them in the cloud
17:07	licenser	everything is better when you do cloud with it.
17:07	babilen	amalloy: Splendid, thanks!
17:08	amalloy	does that actually work? i don't have 7, just kinda threw it together
17:08	licenser	I wonder if "to cloud" will become a word just as "to google"
17:15	babilen	amalloy: I will try it in a second and let you know. -- First I want to understand what my misconceptions about varargs were and decide if a jdk7 dependency is acceptable.
17:19	amalloy	babilen: rewrote it as a macro, which is slightly more convenient to use: https://gist.github.com/1440296
17:20	amalloy	you might need to add an option to specify what class of array to create; for example if you need to pass an Object[] but the first element is a String
17:39	babilen	amalloy: You are most kind and it works perfectly with the addition of said option.
18:20	technomancy	so... this happened: https://github.com/technomancy/lein-heroku
18:22	ibdknox	technomancy: short of the procfile, lein noir new blah spits out something that pushes to heroku cleanly
18:22	amalloy	(defn ps:restart) ;; you monster
18:23	technomancy	ibdknox: yeah, the skeleton stuff is just to help folks follow along with the devcenter tutorials.
18:47	rien	Raynes: dude, are you there?
18:47	Raynes	rien: Dude. I am.
18:48	rien	heh. listen, I'm trying to get in touch with nixeagle
18:48	rien	about his cool uhm... no-name emacs buffer online thingy
18:48	Raynes	Man, I was looking for that a couple of days ago.
18:48	Raynes	Couldn't find it.
18:48	rien	then I found in some clojure logs that he was going to package that up and you were in talks with him
18:48	rien	aww
18:48	Raynes	Anyways, he never comes around anymore.
18:49	licenser	dude dude dude, you two sound like a train
18:49	rien	oh so he used to be here?
18:49	Raynes	You can probably get in touch with him on github.
18:49	rien	I know him from #lisp
18:49	Raynes	https://github.com/nixeagle
18:49	rien	I sent him an email on his .org domain which is barren
18:49	rien	yeah I found that, look over all his repos, it's not there :) so I'll send him a message I guess
18:49	rien	but did he ever get around to packaging it up?
18:49	Raynes	I don't think he did.
18:50	rien	so the people that wanted it are still waiting for it? if we have a quorum that might motivate him :)
18:51	ieure	:( https://github.com/nixeagle/pokemon-online
18:51	Raynes	Yeah, he's a big pokeguy.
18:51	rien	I guess I'll send him a message. I hate to bother people
18:51	ieure	Jesus.
18:52	ieure	This is the sound of me judging.
18:52	Raynes	He does crazy AI stuff with pokemon.
18:52	ibdknox	lol
18:52	ieure	Hahahaha
18:52	Raynes	rien: I still want it.
18:52	rien	Raynes: do you have a github account? I could mention your username on the message. just one guy wanting something isn't very motivating
18:52	Raynes	rien: http://github.com/Raynes
18:53	rien	will do. the-kenny also wanted it, and nullman too
18:54	Raynes	It probably wouldn't be too hard to do again if you knew a little elisp-fu. technomancy will write it for us. He writes anything he is ever asked to write.
18:54	technomancy	I think you got that backwards
18:56	the-kenny	What do I want? :)
18:56	rien	hahah
18:56	brehaut	thats a bit yakov smirnoff isnt it?
18:56	rien	hey the-kenny, do you still want that emacs buffer publishing code (sorry, that never had an official name, I'm doing my best to describe it)
18:56	rien	okay, maybe not my best
18:57	the-kenny	rien: for gist.el? Yeah, that would be useful for me
18:57	the-kenny	(and a few other people I know too)
18:57	rien	no, not that
18:57	rien	I'm talking about that nixeagle website thing where you could see his emacs buffer live
18:58	the-kenny	Ahhh
18:59	the-kenny	That one would be cool too :)
18:59	the-kenny	sorry, saw gist.el in your github account.
19:01	rien	okay, three now. do you have a github account?
19:03	Raynes	rien: I think you're doing okay. I'd just ask him if he would, at the very least, point out where the code is and put it on Github if it isn't already there. You (or somebody else) can handle the packaging and such if he doesn't feel like it.
19:03	Raynes	He's a nice guy. He'll probably do it.
19:04	rien	yep, I only talked to him very briefly and he seemed a nice guy. but I understand people sometimes don't have the time to do everything they'd like to
19:05	the-kenny	rien: Yup, github.com/the-kenny Sadly, I don't have much time lately :(
19:05	Raynes	Join the club.
19:05	ibdknox	Can I be the president of the club?
19:06	jodaro	ibdknox: do you have time for that?
19:06	rien	I don't have time to be appointing people president
19:06	ibdknox	jodaro: shit
19:06	ibdknox	no.
19:06	jodaro	i know, right?
19:07	jodaro	heh
19:07	jodaro	one kid to the other: no no, get the laser jetpack, its way better! that one sucks!
19:08	the-kenny	Gnah. We need slime-dream: A library to interact with a running repl from inside a dream.
19:09	jodaro	the-kenny: i was thinking of something similar yesterday while eating a sandwich for lunch, wishing i could test some code out without needing my hands since they were busy.
19:09	rien	Raynes: message sent. now we wait
19:09	the-kenny	jodaro: Got an iPhone 4s? Maybe Siri can help us
19:09	jodaro	siri, write bug free code.
19:10	the-kenny	Siri, open slime repl on mymachine:4663 and write some cool stuff
19:11	the-kenny	Fun fact: The name of my neighbor's daughter is Siri
19:13	jodaro	so many jokes to make
19:13	jodaro	so little time
19:16	the-kenny	rien: Thanks for taking up on the subject. Keep me updated :) Have to go to bed now. Long day at university tomorrow.
19:16	rien	I will
19:19	the-kenny	good night :)
19:26	rien	night!
19:45	alexbaranosky	does anyone use clojure-refactoring w/ their Emacs? I'm an Emacs noob and would love to hear how you use it
20:01	_ulises	I'm trying to practise writing macros and I'm having issues writing a macro that returns a fn with options args
20:02	_ulises	would anybody mind giving me a hand? This is what I have: http://pastebin.com/KMrdxv9c
20:02	_ulises	which of course does not work.
20:02	alexbaranosky	I installed the emacs starter kit with emacs 24, now when I do `M-x clojure-jack-in` I'm getting an error: (error "Could not start swank server: That's not a task. Use \"lein help\" to list all tasks.
20:02	alexbaranosky	")
20:03	alexbaranosky	_ulises, let me see
20:03	alexbaranosky	_ulises, you didn't define msg
20:03	_ulises	alexbaranosky: thanks. Regarding your error, you may want to install the swank leiningen plugin? I'm just guessing as I just use the old style with slime-connect, etc.
20:04	alexbaranosky	when I do a lein help, swank is listed under the options
20:04	_ulises	alexbaranosky: indeed I haven't. That was my poor attempt at defining varargs so that they can be used in the body of the function :(
20:07	alexbaranosky	_ulises, maybe something more like this?: http://pastebin.com/GY7fHu4s
20:08	alexbaranosky	(hello [arg1 arg2] (print "hi") (print "mom")) ????
20:08	hiredman	alexbaranosky: generally means you don't have swank-clojure installed (should be installed as a plugin)
20:08	alexbaranosky	hiredman, thanks, will look into that
20:08	_ulises	alexbaranosky: thanks!
20:09	amalloy	_ulises: you have to decide how the varargs will be available to the user. do you want to introduce a variable named msgs in their scope, or let them decide how to destructure, or what?
20:09	_ulises	hum, wait
20:10	_ulises	amalloy: well, I want the macro to return a function which takes a variable number of arguments and then the user's code can ref. those by name, e.g. msgs
20:10	_ulises	so, ideally the macro would return (fn [& msgs] ( ... user code that may use msgs ... ))
20:11	_ulises	I just replaced my msgs with msgs# which works, but then that becomes inaccessible in the user code :(
20:11	amalloy	_ulises: what i'm getting at is, how does the symbol "msgs" get chosen? you just made it up now, but your macro can't guess what you want. you have to decide to have it always named msgs, or let the user specify names, or whatever
20:12	_ulises	amalloy: not sure I'm following, but I wouldn't mind if it was always named msgs
20:12	_ulises	e.g. ((hello (println msgs) "foo" "bar") ; prints ("foo" "bar")
20:13	_ulises	ach, missing a parens
20:13	amalloy	okay. so that is definitely something you can do, but clojure does try to discourage it because it's the cause of some subtle errors in other macro languages
20:13	_ulises	oh, right.
20:13	amalloy	(defmacro hello [& body] `(fn [~'msgs] (println ~'msgs) ~@body))
20:14	alexbaranosky	so now you've got a snazzy new anaphoric macro :)
20:14	_ulises	heh
20:15	alexbaranosky	or am I wrong, I'ms still a bit stupid with macros :)
20:15	amalloy	nah, you're right
20:15	_ulises	indeed
20:15	amalloy	but beware: even chuck norris double-checks when he introduces anaphora
20:15	_ulises	I was reading the anaphora macro in the JOC book and thought "hey, this is what I need"
20:16	_ulises	and I even had in one of my versions ~'msgs but it didn't compile :/
20:16	_ulises	anyway, thanks for your help amalloy and alexbaranosky
20:16	alexbaranosky	no problem
20:16	licenser	_ulises: one way to allow what you want would declaring msgs and then binding it inside the function
20:16	alexbaranosky	it's fun
20:17	licenser	another one would be to allow the unser to name the variable themselves - which is quite nice
20:17	_ulises	licenser: along the lines of `(fn [foo#] (binding [msgs foo#] ... ))?
20:18	amalloy	licenser: indeed, but then users will be tempted to try and destructure it themselves, which makes it rather hard for you to figure out what things to print
20:18	amalloy	eg, they may decide to name it not msgs but [msg1 msg2]
20:18	licenser	_ulises: yap along this lines, just need to declare msgs first and usually it would be called msgs I think
20:18	_ulises	yeah
20:18	_ulises	well, not sure it makes sense in the context of what I'm trying to do
20:18	amalloy	fwiw i think having a dynamic variable and binding it is nuts
20:18	licenser	ah I see what you mean yes but you can work around that by giving it an additional internal name
20:19	_ulises	so, this macro is called hello right now but it should be called handler, and this creates a handler for a message. I'm writing a mega-simplified actors lib.
20:19	licenser	just to be sure, are we actually discussing the case of the hallo function or is that a example for something
20:19	alexbaranosky	hiredman: strangely I ran `lein plugin install swank-clojure 1.3.3` then `M-x clojure-jack-in` from Emacs and got the same error message... do I need to restart Emacs?
20:19	licenser	heh wow you can read minds _ulises
20:19	_ulises	so it may not make sense to have the user name the msgs parameter
20:19	_ulises	hehe
20:20	licenser	will the user ever have to know the name for msgs?
20:20	licenser	I mean in the example given there would be no need for that I think - or I miss it
20:20	_ulises	it'll be msgs
20:20	_ulises	eh?
20:20	licenser	I mean is there a reason not to use msgs#
20:21	licenser	of cause the user won't be able to use it then but does he need to?
20:21	licenser	and yay for actors - go erlang go!
20:21	alexbaranosky	_ulises, why not instead use a function that wraps functions, but printing the args before calling the inner function?
20:21	_ulises	yes, indeed, using msgs# means the user's code cannot inspect the messages received
20:21	_ulises	this is the pong actor: http://pastebin.com/jVyRT0eM
20:21	licenser	ah I see what you are planning
20:22	_ulises	with amalloy's shiny handler macro
20:22	licenser	and you need something like debug printing
20:23	_ulises	not me
20:23	_ulises	I wanted to be able to write handlers that inspect the message further
20:23	licenser	(defmacro hello [[msgs-name] & body] `(fn [msgs#] (println msgs#) (let [~msgs-name msgs#] ~@body)))
20:24	licenser	how about something like that
20:24	_ulises	that would work...
20:24	_ulises	lemme test that
20:24	licenser	you then could do ((hello [[msg1 msg2]] (println msg1)) "bla" "blubber")
20:25	licenser	I like the give the user parameters thing because he actually can do destucting ^^
20:25	licenser	it feels more like a function declaration that way
20:25	licenser	geez this medication isn't fun -.-
20:26	_ulises	yes
20:26	licenser	:)
20:27	_ulises	updated pong http://pastebin.com/tnur0N0s
20:27	licenser	(defmacro hello [[msgs-name] & body] `(fn [& msgs#] (println msgs#) (let [~msgs-name msgs#] ~@body)))
20:27	licenser	this is the correct code
20:28	licenser	otherwise you can't use more then one param
20:28	_ulises	yes, I used your code as is
20:29	licenser	but the first one was wrong ;)
20:29	_ulises	oh!
20:29	licenser	you could not call (h "bla" "blubb"
20:29	licenser	)
20:29	_ulises	yes, the fn definition
20:29	licenser	only one parameter was allowed :)
20:30	licenser	also I think there is a pattern matching library for clojure might want to look into that
20:30	_ulises	actually, that is fine, since I foresee messages being along the lines of {:msg msg :payload data}
20:30	licenser	since it will make it more erlangy
20:30	_ulises	yeah, well, this is just a toy, not trying to write this for any serious use :)
20:30	licenser	awww
20:30	_ulises	it might be an excuse to learn the patter matching lib though
20:30	licenser	_ulises ! ping
20:31	_ulises	licenser ! "try jobim for an actors lib"
20:31	licenser	_ulises ! "I don't want an actors lib I have my erlang for that!"
20:31	_ulises	hehe indeed
20:31	licenser	clojure is for nice single system high cores concurrency
20:31	licenser	and it is darn good for that
20:32	licenser	erlang is an entire different domain, and it is darn good for that
20:32	licenser	I love both, and since they aren't girls they don't go and say "but you can't love two!"
20:32	_ulises	hah
20:33	licenser	erlang and clojure can happily coexist, it is like an open relation ship with us ^^
20:33	licenser	like today I had some intercourse with erlang - so it wasn't very good, the build tool mess they have is taking a lot of fun out of things
20:33	_ulises	well eff me ...
20:34	alexbaranosky	when does one use Mix slime, and when do you use M-x clojure-jack-in ?
20:34	_ulises	licenser: turns out I'm quite digging your macro
20:34	licenser	:)
20:34	licenser	_ulises: I am glad to hear that
20:34	_ulises	alexbaranosky: I use slime-connect after having run lein swank
20:34	licenser	usually slime connect should only be needed if you connect to a remote slime server
20:34	alexbaranosky	I can connect to slime, but I don't really understand when you would use clojure-jack-in
20:35	licenser	as long as the project is local and a lein project the jack in thing is nice
20:35	alexbaranosky	ok
20:35	alexbaranosky	licenser, for somer eason jack-in isn't working, but slime is
20:35	licenser	jack in is (in my eyes) better for anything local since you don't have to run lein swank and block a console window
20:35	alexbaranosky	I just installed Emacs 24 with Technomancyy's blog
20:35	_ulises	licenser: turns out you can do this http://pastebin.com/XSZHh6Py
20:35	ibdknox	emacs 24 includes technomancy's blog now?
20:36	ibdknox	that's pretty neat
20:36	ibdknox	I wonder how they keep it up to date
20:36	licenser	ibdknox: git :P
20:36	alexbaranosky	ibdknox, I appreciate the attempt
20:36	licenser	alexbaranosky: in what way isn't it woring?
20:37	licenser	on c'mon alexbaranosky it was a quite funny comment I could laugh
20:37	licenser	ibdknox: by the way totally great work with pinot!
20:37	alexbaranosky	I usually type much stupider things than that though. I think he jumped the gun )
20:37	licenser	^^
20:37	ibdknox	licenser: haha thanks
20:38	licenser	alexbaranosky: he does not mean any harm, usually people here are a funny bunch ^^ I am sure we have laughed a lot about ibdknox in the past too
20:38	licenser	_ulises: hm?
20:38	alexbaranosky	can I see the new macro? link?
20:39	_ulises	I realised when I thought "hey, this handler thing looks like fn, maybe users could even write docstrings for their handlers ... oh wait."
20:39	licenser	laughs
20:39	alexbaranosky	licenser, I get this error message: (error "Could not start swank server: That's not a task. Use \"lein help\" to list all tasks.
20:39	alexbaranosky	")
20:39	_ulises	alexbaranosky: (defmacro hello [[msgs-name] & body] `(fn [& msgs#] (println msgs#) (let [~msgs-name msgs#] ~@body)))
20:39	licenser	alexbaranosky: update lein, do lein clean
20:39	alexbaranosky	which seems to suggest it isn't installed as a lein plugin... but it is
20:39	licenser	_ulises: the reason why you wanted to macro was that you cold do stuff with the message before it is handed to user hand ?
20:40	licenser	and you have to have a file open in the project you want to jack in to
20:40	_ulises	licenser: nah, the print thing was my gettho debugging techniques
20:40	licenser	_ulises ! stone
20:40	_ulises	mailbox full
20:40	licenser	darn it
20:40	_ulises	too much hatemail already
20:40	licenser	^^
20:41	alexbaranosky	_ulises, I still think you could probably just be writing a function that wraps another function, no?
20:41	_ulises	alexbaranosky: handlers are nothing but functions really
20:41	_ulises	I wanted to pretify the code
20:41	_ulises	so that you'd have {:message (handler (do urface))} as opposed to {:message (fn [& msg] (urface))}
20:42	licenser	how I love that you call it !- :P
20:42	_ulises	all those & # % make clojure look like perl
20:42	_ulises	hah
20:42	_ulises	yeah, well
20:42	licenser	how about making receive a macro?
20:42	_ulises	that's my next step
20:43	_ulises	right now receive is an fn that returns an fn
20:43	alexbaranosky	_ulises, ahhh I see, a way I like to write that kind of macro is to write the function version first, then write a simple macro that calls the function version - like this: https://github.com/AlexBaranosky/Utilize/blob/master/src/utilize/testutils.clj
20:43	licenser	http://pastebin.com/index/XSZHh6Py
20:43	licenser	something like that
20:44	alexbaranosky	_ulises, see the do-at macro and the do-at function
20:44	_ulises	licenser: how's that different from what I have right now?
20:44	alexbaranosky	_ulises, correction do-at* function
20:44	licenser	_ulises: it looks more erlangy?
20:44	_ulises	alexbaranosky: yeah :)
20:44	licenser	oh no it does not, it ignored my changes ::(
20:45	_ulises	phew
20:45	licenser	http://pastebin.com/qW4HmFKZ
20:45	_ulises	I was squinting like hell here just to find the differences
20:45	_ulises	I even thought you'd be trolling me
20:45	_ulises	:'(
20:45	licenser	http://pastebin.com/13NsmYNK
20:46	licenser	_ulises: I feel so bad now
20:46	licenser	well actually, no I don't
20:46	licenser	:P
20:46	licenser	might be the meds so
20:46	_ulises	</troll>
20:46	_ulises	anyway, that's the future plan for receive, yes, looks much nicer
20:46	licenser	=)
20:47	_ulises	I was thinking today in the shower whether one could even get away with [:msg -> (handler ...)]
20:47	licenser	I wonder if you could write clolang a clojure to erlang converter :P
20:47	_ulises	or just use erjang?
20:47	licenser	why the [] then
20:47	_ulises	no need for the [] really
20:47	licenser	[:msg {args}] -> body body body body
20:47	licenser	well where args is a horribly bad example
20:48	licenser	you could parse that up to the next thing that is a 'vector' -> and be done with it and really have it look like erlang :P
20:48	licenser	won't even need a do any more
20:49	licenser	and you could actually place a ',' after every body part, and a ; at the end and it still would be valid clojure
20:49	licenser	hah
20:49	_ulises	in theory it doesn't need a do
20:49	_ulises	hehe
20:49	_ulises	right, I was about to say that I should go to bed as I have work tomorrow
20:49	_ulises	but now I need to finish this
20:49	licenser	http://pastebin.com/PXCyXfxN
20:49	_ulises	and add the pattern matching lib. Where can I find it?
20:49	licenser	and you COULD get away with this
20:50	_ulises	licenser ^^^^^^^^
20:50	_ulises	I just wrote that in the pastebin :D
20:50	licenser	_ulises: I have no clue I think it is clojure.match
20:50	_ulises	thanks
20:50	licenser	https://github.com/clojure/core.match
20:51	licenser	that would make it look sooo erlangy :P they even have _
20:52	_ulises	yes
20:52	_ulises	now please put the crack pipe away from me?
20:52	licenser	no crack pipe cough medicine
20:53	licenser	and I am under the dose my doctor described - I hate the stuff :(
20:53	licenser	but yes sleep is good, I start to feel really wired anyhow, night night and alexbaranosky I am sorry that we could not help with your jack-in try to catch technomancy tomorrow, he knows a lot. I think he actually helped every single clojure-jack-in user to set it up ^^
20:53	licenser	well with that words,
20:53	licenser	nighy night people
20:53	_ulises	enjoy licenser thanks for the help
20:54	jodaro	man
20:54	_ulises	there should be commans and & in that sentence
20:54	jodaro	that was a damn fine baklava
20:54	_ulises	jealousy
20:54	jodaro	at a cafe
20:55	technomancy	alexbaranosky: does it happen on every project?
20:55	alexbaranosky	I've only tried it once, let me try another
20:55	alexbaranosky	technomancy, (just got it set up)
20:57	alexbaranosky	technomancy, looks like it worked on a small toy project I tried it on
20:58	technomancy	alexbaranosky: make sure your other project doesn't have an old version of swank (or any version of swank, really) in dev-deps
20:58	alexbaranosky	that's probably the issue
21:00	alexbaranosky	technomancy, the culprit I suspect?: :dev-dependencies [[swank-clojure "1.2.1"]
21:00	technomancy	yeah, project deps always take precedence over user-level deps because they're more specific
21:00	technomancy	get rid of that nonsense
21:01	alexbaranosky	I've got to ask the other committer if somehow he's using it, but yeah, at least locally I'll torch it
21:01	technomancy	tell him I told you to get rid of it. =)
21:01	technomancy	that belongs as a user-level plugin anyway; it should never be in project.clj unless you intend to use it in production.
21:01	alexbaranosky	will do, that should give me the muscle I need ^^
21:02	alexbaranosky	It's probably old cruft from a time it made sense
21:02	alexbaranosky	or at least made MORE sense
21:02	technomancy	oh sure; leiningen didn't always have user-level plugins
21:03	alexbaranosky	the project is Midje, which has been around a while
21:09	jodaro	i do love me some destructuring, i'll tell you what
21:10	alexbaranosky	jodaro, amen to that
21:11	jodaro	just ripped out a bunch of let crap
21:11	jodaro	by destructurifying the hell out of the params
21:11	jodaro	and its way cleaner
21:12	alexbaranosky	technomancy, removed it from project file, then ran lein deps, but still isn't working... could there be a swank-related artifact lying around causing trouble?
21:14	duck1123	delete lib/dev/
21:15	alexbaranosky	duck1123, didnt help
21:15	alexbaranosky	ls
21:23	alexbaranosky	so far I am not impressed with Emacs must figure out what I'm missing
21:25	alexbaranosky	thought paredit seems nice
21:25	zerokarmaleft	alexbaranosky: give it at least a month
21:25	alexbaranosky	zerokarmaleft, I feel like it is missing some things I want
21:25	alexbaranosky	stupid stuff
21:26	alexbaranosky	like the ability to holdctrl-shift and right arrow to select a chunk of text
21:26	alexbaranosky	maybe the Emacs cheatsheets I'm finding aren't being exhaustive
21:28	duck1123	alexbaranosky: C-space to set the start mark, then arrow to the wnd, that's how you select in emacs
21:28	duck1123	to the end
21:29	alexbaranosky	duck1123, are there any ways to select code chunks incrementally?
21:29	alexbaranosky	say by sexp ?
21:30	duck1123	If there are commands to move by sexp, I don't use them
21:30	duck1123	C-h m is your friend when in an unfamiliar mode
21:31	zerokarmaleft	paredit's nav by sexp is C-M-f and C-M-b
21:32	alexbaranosky	zerokarmaleft, nice! Can you select as well as use them for nevigation?
21:33	zerokarmaleft	any nav used after setting a mark C-space expands or contracts the region
21:34	alexbaranosky	zerokarmaleft, ahhh got it, make sense
21:49	alexbaranosky	is there a plugin for emacs to give me a kind of project navigation tree?
22:05	TimMc	alexbaranosky: Holding down shift while using some navigation keys will do selection.
22:05	TimMc	But yeah, C-space is the general case.
22:06	amalloy	alexbaranosky: C-M-space
22:06	TimMc	Pretty soon you'll be using M-x paredit-convolute-sexp and stuff like a pro.
22:08	TimMc	amalloy: I've actually started using it. Pretty sweet.
22:10	amalloy	another thing i like, not paredit-related, is C-u space
22:11	amalloy	er, C-u C-space
22:11	TimMc	?
22:12	amalloy	eg: "hm, need to add a :require". M-< to top of file...edit...C-u C-space, and i'm back where i left off
22:13	amalloy	see also set-mark-command-repeat-pop, so that you can hit C-u and then just pound on C-space a few times till it gets you back to where you meant to be
22:14	TimMc	"mark ring"
22:14	TimMc	Time to do some reading.
22:14	amalloy	TimMc: well, it's like the kill ring, but for marks
22:15	amalloy	you can pretend it's a stack without missing much
23:00	ihodes	hmmm forgetting the name of the fn that keeps the intermediate stages of the reduce operation...
23:01	amalloy	$findfn + (range 4) [0 1 3 6]
23:01	lazybot	[clojure.core/reductions]
23:02	ihodes	exccccellllent thank you
23:04	ambrosebs	$findfn 1 2
23:04	lazybot	[clojure.core/unchecked-inc-int clojure.core/unchecked-inc clojure.core/inc clojure.core/inc']
23:04	ihodes	ah and one more higher-order, changes the arity on the fn without changing anything else?
23:04	ambrosebs	wow
23:06	amalloy	ihodes: you probably mean partial, but that's a pretty poor description of it :P
23:07	ihodes	amalloy: no, i mean allowing a fn like rest to take 2 argument, but not doing anything with the second
23:07	amalloy	i don't think that's anywhere in core?
23:07	amalloy	but it sounds neat, go ahead and write it
23:08	ihodes	amalloy: ah i must be thinking of something in haskell...
23:08	ihodes	a simple enough thing to write or fudge though
23:13	amalloy	hah, ambrosebs, i didn't realize we had so many variants on inc
23:13	ambrosebs	amalloy: where does findfn live?
23:14	amalloy	$google raynes github findfn
23:14	ambrosebs	$findfn 1 1 1
23:14	lazybot	[Raynes/lein-findfn - GitHub] https://github.com/Raynes/lein-findfn
23:14	lazybot	[clojure.core/max-key clojure.core/unchecked-multiply clojure.core/bit-or clojure.core/cond clojure.core/dosync clojure.core/sync clojure.core/char-escape-string clojure.core/* clojure.core/with-loading-context clojure.core/bit-and clojure.core// clojure.core/unche... https://gist.github.com/1441431
23:15	amalloy	haha max-key. that's great
23:15	ambrosebs	ha!
23:16	amalloy	stupid google. the one you want is https://github.com/Raynes/findfn
23:17	ambrosebs	ah
23:17	amalloy	$findfn [1 2 3] 3 ; i love when rand-nth makes the result list
23:17	lazybot	[clojure.core/last clojure.core/count clojure.core/peek]
23:17	ambrosebs	:)
23:17	ambrosebs	static type annotations would probably help the efficiency of that library
23:18	ambrosebs	which is what I'm working on right now
23:18	amalloy	ambrosebs: yes, i am super in favor of your efforts to get type information
23:18	amalloy	though i'm more interested in functional purity than argument/return types
23:18	TimMc	,(doc max-key)
23:18	clojurebot	"([k x] [k x y] [k x y & more]); Returns the x for which (k x), a number, is greatest."
23:19	ambrosebs	I just need some help annotating `seq`
23:19	amalloy	TimMc: most importantly, (max-key k x) is always x; k never gets called
23:19	ambrosebs	xD
23:20	TimMc	$findfn :whatever :something :something
23:20	lazybot	[clojure.core/max-key clojure.core/cond clojure.core/dosync clojure.core/sync clojure.core/char-escape-string clojure.core/with-loading-context clojure.core/clojure-version clojure.core/case clojure.core/min-key clojure.core/and clojure.core/locking clojure.core/... https://gist.github.com/1441441
23:22	TimMc	&(clojure-version :lol :wut)
23:22	lazybot	⇒ :wut
23:22	licenser	heh
23:24	TimMc	Oh, haha! It's a map, so it's going for the default value.
23:24	TimMc	&(clojure-version :major :lol)
23:24	lazybot	⇒ 1
23:26	ihodes	well that's awful. tmux can't run properly in with TERM=xterm-256color, and without that TERM, emacs looks cruddy in tmux. sigh.
23:28	amalloy	ihodes: ask technomancy, i'm sure he knows how to make emacs run in tmux
23:29	jlf	ihodes: or on #tmux
23:29	ihodes	good ideas.
23:31	vivekn	I'm new to Clojure. How do I start a script in the repl in Clojure from the terminal?
23:32	Raynes	ambrosebs: I will not accept patches that improve findfn in any way. It doesn't deserve it.
23:32	ambrosebs	Raynes: :)
23:33	ihodes	vivekn: this page as what you need; let me/us know if it's not clear (that could be the case!) http://clojure.org/repl_and_main but also look into https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen for when you get going.
23:33	ambrosebs	it would be a good test for type annotations tho
23:33	ihodes	vivekn: most people use leiningen (or Cake, but let's not make things too complicated yet)
23:34	ihodes	vivekn: from the resource, in simple answer to your question: java -cp clojure.jar clojure.main /path/to/myscript.clj arg1 arg2 arg3
23:35	licenser	Raynes: you don't like findfn?
23:35	Raynes	ihodes: You don't have to mention cake anymore.
23:36	vivekn	ihodes: Thanks, but I tried that before. It didn't work as expected. I'll look into leiningen
23:36	licenser	the cake is a lie!
23:36	Raynes	ihodes: You considering mentioning it complicated was the nail in the coffin -- we've decided to work on Leiningen instead.
23:36	Raynes	You live with that now, boy.
23:36	ihodes	Raynes: <3
23:37	Raynes	But seriously, you don't have to mention it anymore. It's old software. ;)
23:37	ihodes	Raynes: noted. i've been "outta the game" for a few months
23:37	licenser	Raynes: cake will become the new i.e. 6 :P
23:37	Raynes	ihodes: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/clojure-cake/GG7DbCQmmW4/Uh7IdWNFmdwJ to get you up to speed.
23:38	ihodes	Raynes: danke
23:38	Raynes	ihodes: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/leiningen/WnnQIZipG5E/pYhp59aMXTQJ And this.
23:39	licenser	Raynes: you have those links lying around somewhere or are you just very good at googling?
23:39	jodaro	wow
23:39	jodaro	1323232749702
23:39	jodaro	unix time is all about 32 right now
23:40	ihodes	licenser: they're on his desktop, waiting...
23:40	jodaro	that has to mean something profound
23:40	licenser	^^
23:40	licenser	nice timing
23:40	jodaro	or ominous
23:57	ambrosebs	raek: I'm having a problem with `def` overwriting my metadata from alter-meta!
23:57	ambrosebs	that's expected, right?
23:58	ambrosebs	,(intern ns 'a)
23:58	clojurebot	#<Exception java.lang.Exception: SANBOX DENIED>