#clojure – 2011-11-24

2011-11-24

00:00	callen	spoon16: nope, you're stuck with me.
00:02	spoon16	I have some questions about using lein with ivy… we have a large repo at NFLX that uses IVY and I'd like to figure out what it would look like to make lein work with a repository that has *-ivy.xml files
00:02	spoon16	I guess I will hit up the mailing list
00:03	callen	spoon16: what's the latency for responses in irc for you usually?
00:04	callen	spoon16: apache ivy?
00:06	spoon16	callen: not sure what you mean… I was just thinking the mailing list for leiningen is probably a more appropriate place
00:07	spoon16	and yes… apache IVY… we have a maven repository where dependencies are described using IVY.xml files. I notice that lein deps pulls the jars that i have explicitly identified, but it does not pull down the dependencies
00:07	callen	are those ellipses?
00:07	callen	...
00:07	callen	they have to be.
00:10	callen	spoon16: netflix uses Clojure?
00:41	georgek	ah of course, just needed to require clojure-mode in .emacs before adding the hook
00:42	spoon16	callen: sorry, got a phone call
00:43	spoon16	callen: I'm not aware of any projects at NFLX that use Clojure in production
00:44	spoon16	but I work on a project and we'd like to use it for a couple of tools… if things go well we may see about leveraging clojure to develop some of our back end services
00:44	Raynes	That's awesome.
00:44	Raynes	I'm a huge fan of Netflix.
00:45	spoon16	the technology is good
00:46	Raynes	I think I'm the only person the planet who was okay with a price increase and separation of DVD and streaming services.
00:49	callen	spoon16: so why do you want leiningen?
00:49	callen	Raynes: I'd be a bigger fan and more likely to stay a paying customer if they'd get the bloody linux client done.
00:49	Raynes	Yeah, Silverlight is a bit of a problem.
00:49	callen	Raynes: I was okay with the price increase, I just want a damn client.
00:51	spoon16	linux client is coming… eventually
00:52	spoon16	I don't think there are enough users to make it a high priority
00:52	spoon16	not on one of the clients teams though… so who knows what the real reasons are
00:52	spoon16	callen: because it's fancy
00:53	spoon16	I supposed i do not really need it
00:53	spoon16	I just started using it and thought there might be some way to get it to work
00:54	callen	spoon16: you'd be bending over backwards unnecessarily, IMHO
00:54	spoon16	I think you are right
04:32	dmi3y	Hi, guys. I'm solving a problen on 4clojure.com where it's required to implement function to count number of elements in a list w\o using the count fn. Can you give me a hint how can I do that in Clojure cause I'm fairly new to it. Thanks!
04:32	dmi3y	... please
04:39	Wild_Cat	dmi3y: you probably want to use recursion and/or destructuring.
04:39	dmi3y	got it, thanks
05:40	fridim_	hi :)
05:57	aperiodic	hiredman: you recommend i implement a simple lisp earlier to help me understand evaluation in clojure; do you think i should implement a spec, or try to come up with something simple myself?
05:58	aperiodic	hiredman: i've been exposed to scheme before in a PL class, so I'll give it a shot, but I'll probably screw up at some point :)
06:03	hoeck	apear
06:04	hoeck	aperiodic: that should be part of the curriculum of any programming course: design and implement a simple lisp interpreter in the language of your choice
06:04	hoeck	aperiodic: I did this in powerbuilder and it helped me alot to understand lisp better :)
06:05	hoeck	you will also gain a better understanding of language-of-your-choice
06:05	aperiodic	hoeck: to be fair, my degree was in math, not CS
06:06	aperiodic	hoeck: it was not a top-notch CS curriculum by a long shot!
06:07	hoeck	aperiodic: but you had at least some exposure to scheme!
06:07	aperiodic	this is true
06:07	aperiodic	i remember the introductory class was taught half in haskell
06:07	aperiodic	which i thought was great
06:08	aperiodic	the professor said he wanted to "level the playing field", figuring that most people who had dabbled in programming probably hadn't tried that
06:09	hoeck	mine was half haskell half c, and we had to implement a parser and a simple compiler for a mimal subset of haskell wit c and yacc
06:09	aperiodic	ooh nice
06:10	aperiodic	we did a basic heavily-arithmetic language in scheme
06:10	aperiodic	(in the PL class)
06:11	aperiodic	then tried to add type-inference
06:11	aperiodic	i didn't grok all the theorems for that though!
06:12	hoeck	back then, I didn't understand the concepts very well, and most of the time we where in a hurry to accomplish the next subtask, but in retrospect, that introduced me to FP
06:13	aperiodic	it's really good to get an exposure to that
06:13	aperiodic	i remember i really admired the expresiveness when compared with c
06:14	aperiodic	but c mapped on to my mental model of computation very well
06:14	aperiodic	until i found myself wishing for first-class functions
06:16	msappler	hello guys, i have a question about "compile". I have a settings namespace with a (def jar-file? false) and I always set it to true before compiling manually. How can I automate this? I tried to re-def it and compiling but it did not work
06:16	hoeck	The first time when I played with haskell, I was surprised that there were no segfaults when the code had errors in it (coming from c)
06:17	hoeck	aperiodic: it took me then another 3 years or so to fully grasp what first class functions are
06:17	aperiodic	i was really blown away by how much work the type system did for me
06:17	aperiodic	msappler: why do you want the jar-file? flag set?
06:18	aperiodic	msappler: i've done a fair amount of java interop and never needed anything like it
06:19	Blkt	good day everyone
06:20	msappler	@aperiodic: i have different image loading functions for jar files and "normal"
06:20	aperiodic	msappler: huh, why is that necessary?
06:20	msappler	basically I do a .listFiles File which does not work in a jar file
06:20	aperiodic	okay
06:21	aperiodic	well, i dunno how you can automate that, sorry!
06:21	msappler	ok! ;)
06:21	aperiodic	you might try looking into lein hooks, though (if you use leiningen)
06:24	hoeck	msappler: are those images resources like icons and such?
06:25	msappler	they are animations. in each folder and I just use listFiles and sort them. for example "0.png" "1.png" "2.png"
06:26	msappler	which is quite comfortable I dont need to know how many frames there are
07:03	r0man	Hi, what's the preferred way to override the toString method of a
07:03	r0man	ClojureScript record? I could use set! to change the toString fn
07:03	r0man	of a record after it has been initialized, but wonder if there is
07:03	r0man	something more idiomatic?
07:10	lypanov	for users stuck with rails on the front-end: https://github.com/yokolet/clementine (jruby) https://github.com/lypanov/clementine (MRI)
07:10	clojurebot	eg, https://github.com/clojure/tools.logging is the new version of clojure.contrib.logging
08:38	samaaron	/wi ejackson
08:38	samaaron	wi ejackson
09:16	biallym	theoretically speaking
09:16	biallym	how would I reverse a (shutdown -agents)
09:16	biallym	how would I reverse a (shutdown-agents)*
09:22	biallym	I'll take that as a "not possible"
09:22	nachtalp	biallym: java.util.concurrent.ExecutorService doesn't really seem to have support for that
09:22	biallym	so it should only be used when it is a for sure thing that you are about to exit
09:23	biallym	either that or create a way to trick clojure into using a new thread pool?
09:26	nachtalp	biallym: if you need to shutdown and create threadpools maybe it's better to manage them yourself? or maybe use something like medusa? (http://bit.ly/arp1ih)
09:31	nachtalp	biallym: not sure what exactly you're trying to achieve, though :)
09:31	biallym	Just thinking about how to clean up properly
09:33	biallym	Because I am writing a program with a lot of inherient state, I have to think about that a lot
09:35	biallym	The thing I was really trying to do is know if a library should call shutdown agents if it uses agents, but the answear seems like a resounding no
09:35	biallym	(The clojure site makes it sound like that has to be called before exiting can occur correctly)
09:38	nachtalp	biallym: this post has some discussion: http://tech.puredanger.com/2010/06/08/clojure-agent-thread-pools/
09:56	andrewclegg	is there a quick way to make a string out of n repetitions of a char?
09:57	andrewclegg	so far I have (apply str (repeat 100 \ ))
09:57	nachtalp	(apply str (take 5 (repeat \C)))
09:58	andrewclegg	is that likely to be more efficient?
10:00	nachtalp	i don't think so
10:04	andrewclegg	mine's less function calls then ;-)
10:05	nachtalp	andrewclegg: agreed :)
10:06	nachtalp	andrewclegg: actually, if you look at the source of repeat it's the same ;)
10:09	Saturnation	,(#(+ (* %1 2) (if (= %2 "0") 0 1)) 0 "0")
10:09	clojurebot	0
10:09	Saturnation	,(reduce #(+ (* %1 2) (if (= %2 "0") 0 1)) 0 "0")
10:09	clojurebot	1
10:09	Saturnation	that confuses me :(
10:10	Saturnation	what am I missing?
10:10	Saturnation	using it to convert binary string "10110" to int
10:11	Saturnation	I'd expect to replace the final string argument in the reduce with a binary string and get the int back
10:11	gfredericks	you can't use the built-in for that?
10:11	gfredericks	,(Integer/parseInt "10110" 2)
10:11	clojurebot	22
10:11	gfredericks	oh
10:11	gfredericks	_fine_ :P
10:11	Saturnation	probably would work better :)
10:12	Saturnation	just really want to grok reduce better, regardless
10:12	gfredericks	ah ha
10:12	gfredericks	the last arg to reduce is supposed to be a list
10:12	gfredericks	,(reduce #(+ (* %1 2) (if (= %2 "0") 0 1)) 0 ["0"])
10:12	clojurebot	0
10:12	gfredericks	so the "list" you were passing in was ##(seq "0")
10:12	lazybot	⇒ (\0)
10:12	Saturnation	ah, thought a string was a list
10:12	gfredericks	it is
10:13	Saturnation	huh?
10:13	gfredericks	so alternatively we could have:
10:13	gfredericks	,(reduce #(+ (* %1 2) (if (= %2 \0) 0 1)) 0 "0")
10:13	clojurebot	0
10:13	gfredericks	a string is a list of characters, not a list of length-1 strings
10:13	gfredericks	"0" is different from \0
10:13	Saturnation	AH
10:13	Saturnation	got it, thanks
10:13	Saturnation	:)
10:13	gfredericks	now I've done my thanksgiving good deed
10:14	biallym	nachtalp: Thanks, I guess I'll file agents as not fully developed yet
10:14	Saturnation	so (= "0" \0) -> false
10:14	gfredericks	,(= "0" \0)
10:14	clojurebot	false
10:14	Saturnation	:)
10:14	Saturnation	thanks again
10:14	gfredericks	yep
10:14	gfredericks	good luck
10:14	Saturnation	getting there
10:16	nachtalp	biallym: what brings you to that conclusion?
10:17	biallym	Because there isn't fully fleshed out support for them in libraries, long running applications, or development enviroments
10:18	biallym	They seem fun to play with, and useful for small apps, but don't have the level of support I would expect, to be able to use them in anything like those ^
10:19	nachtalp	biallym: i don't see why the couldn't be used in the scenarios mentioned above...
10:19	nachtalp	they, even
10:21	biallym	Libraries: including the library stops the program from closing without boiler plate and starts up a bunch of thread pools without user knowledge. Additionally there is no way for the library to treat it's agents differently
10:26	biallym	And for the other two, it means there is a one-time-only, restart required to fix, language feature. Which means to get agents back I have to loose all of my state
10:27	nachtalp	biallym: i still don't understand why you want to shutdown the thread pools in order to "clean up" ... the state associated with the agents is independent from the thread pools afaik
10:28	biallym	Because you have to call it to cleanly exit a program >.>
10:28	biallym	like if you don't call it the program will just hang on the terminal
10:28	biallym	which is really annoying for the user (programmer) of a library
10:29	biallym	Also, while I don't know the stability of java threads/thread pools, if they somehow did crash, there is no way to recover the language feature
10:31	biallym	And I am not talking about getting the agent state, if there is an agent I need to manipulate to get a crashed program without a working agent threadpool back into a running state without loosing any other accumulated state, I am screwed
10:32	biallym	say if I had a long running calculation, it crashes into a repl, how do I use agents if the thread pool has crashed? How can I restore the program to a running state again?
10:33	biallym	Yes I could save it to disk and reload it, if that is even easily feasible with clojure, but I would prefer language features which are more robust
10:33	nachtalp	biallym: if those are your requirements, agents might not be what you're looking for (i may be wrong, however)
10:35	biallym	Well they would be an elegant way to handel certain parts of an application, but they don't seem robust enough for my paranoia >.>
10:39	biallym	especially because those are control and command parts, which I would prefer worked on a consistent basis :p
10:40	nachtalp	biallym: sure, if you don't trust the built-in threadpools in java to be robust...
10:40	biallym	Haha, I don't trust java, I come from lisp land, not java land
10:41	biallym	I really miss condtions and resets too >.> (http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/beyond-exception-handling-conditions-and-restarts.html)
10:44	biallym	However the speed is competitive (enough) with common lisp for what I am doing, clojure has much better concurrency support, and I'm getting time on a cluster so shrug
10:46	andrewclegg	biallym: java's thread pools are very well tested by now
10:48	biallym	I am sure they are... I just don't feel secure using them in a long running program all. And not at all for any library.
10:48	biallym	is all*
10:50	biallym	I probably will end up using them, I just think it's stupid the way they are set up now >.>
10:52	biallym	Especially for libraries... >.>
11:53	Guest91650	hello - can someone help me with understanding somtehing about symbols and functions?
11:53	Guest91650	if have the following source
11:53	Guest91650	(defn hello [x y] (str "hi " x " and " (apply y)))(defn robert [] (str "Rrrrobert "))
11:54	Guest91650	and when using (map hello '(1) '(robert))
11:54	Guest91650	i don't get the expected "hi 1 and Rrrrobert" but an exception.
11:55	Vinzent	Guest91650, why (apply y)? just (y)
11:57	Guest91650	this is a simplification of a real situation which shows me i don't know how to invoke the function associated as a symbol (you see already i tried with apply)
11:57	Guest91650	just (y) gives me the errpr #<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args (0) passed to: Symbol>
11:58	Guest91650	and with apply i get the exception #<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args (1) passed to: core$apply>
11:58	Vinzent	Guest91650, show the whole code, please, looks like you have ('f) or ((symbol "f"))
11:59	Guest91650	this is the whole code
11:59	Guest91650	just the 2 lines
11:59	Guest91650	(defn hello [x y] (str "hi " x " and " (apply y)))
11:59	Guest91650	and
11:59	Guest91650	(defn robert [] (str "Rrrrobert "))
11:59	Guest91650	and this is the call from the repl
11:59	Guest91650	(map hello '(1) '(robert))
12:00	Vinzent	oh, right - you should use [robert]
12:00	Vinzent	because ' prevents evaluation of robert, so it's a symbol, not a function, so it tries to call ('robert)
12:00	Guest91650	=> (map hello '(1) [robert])
12:00	kephale	,(let [hello (fn [x y] (str "hi " x " and " (y))) robert (fn [] (str "blah"))] (map hello [1] [robert]))
12:00	Guest91650	#<IllegalArgumentException java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args (1) passed to: core$apply>
12:00	clojurebot	("hi 1 and blah")
12:01	Vinzent	Guest91650, as i sayed abive, (y), not (apply y)
12:06	Guest91650	Thank you a lot Vinzent and kephale! now it works. but then i miss something - if i understand you correctly - using [robert] make robert to get evaluated to the function itself which is then correctly called by map. so far - so good. then - using '(robert) prevents the evaluation of robert to the function denoted by that symbol. also ok. but that means that i can't use function names in...
12:06	Guest91650	...lists to be invoked later. or there is a possibility to find the function of a symbol which i don't know (except the now shown explicit putting it in an array for example)
12:07	Guest91650	p.s. called by (y) and not by map - sorry.
12:07	Guest91650	to clarify - i look for something like symbol-function of common lisp.
12:08	kephale	Guest91650: you also could have used (list robert)
12:09	Guest91650	that was it... forgot about ' being a shortcut to (list...)....
12:09	Guest91650	Thanky you again, kephale!
12:11	Vinzent	actually, ' is shortcut for (quote ...)
12:11	biallym	,(let [foo (fn [] ())] (macroexpand-1 '('foo)))
12:11	clojurebot	((quote foo))
12:12	biallym	Also notice the difference:
12:12	Guest91650	yes, you are right
12:12	biallym	,(let [foo (fn [] ())] (macroexpand-1 `('foo)))
12:12	clojurebot	((quote sandbox/foo))
12:12	biallym	Not sure if that is relvent to what you were talking about but it might be
12:12	biallym	(the second one, not the first one)
12:15	Guest91650	biallym - ty, kephale and vinzent helped already a lot to reboot my head from lisp-2 hapbits :)
12:15	Guest91650	and sometimes to not see such things...
12:16	biallym	Yea clojure has a lot of subtle differences from other lisps
12:16	biallym	most of them good
12:16	biallym	i find it very rare that you ever need a quote, for example
12:16	biallym	(unless you are dealing with macros that is)
12:18	Guest91650	well - even without macros - each case where part of your program is represented as data - there could be a lot of quoting
12:18	biallym	Like I was saying, I find that very rare, because of a lot of clojures default behavior (I also come from lisp land, I found that about 60% of my quotes were unnessecary in clojure)
12:20	Guest91650	probably - i'm not yet that experienced in clojure.
12:25	Guest91650	while porting something from cl to clojure - sometimes i stumble upon things and don't get through until someone points to the right direction - which often seems so obvious - but only after someone else shows it... :)
12:58	krunaldo	I'm having some issues with clojure 1.3, well I can't start it. 1.2.1 works fine! It says colud not find main class, java version "1.6.0_23"(openjdk)
12:58	krunaldo	any clue?
13:00	krunaldo	just tried it with jre1.6.0_29 did not work either.
13:01	Vinzent	are trying to start swank or what?
13:01	Vinzent	*are you
13:02	krunaldo	clojure -cp $jar clojure.main
13:03	krunaldo	hahah, nvm I'm really stupid
13:03	krunaldo	my -cp pointed to the zip file
13:03	krunaldo	I'll just go into my corner of shame and shoot myself :)
13:12	Vinzent	krunaldo, hah :) but, seriously, why don't you use leiningen?
13:16	krunaldo	Vinzent: Getting to that, I just want to trial out some code. I'll get to the tool chain later on :)
13:17	hhutch	i'm having problems with clojurescript interop: http://paste.lisp.org/display/126064
13:17	hhutch	anybody have a suggestion?
13:19	Vinzent	krunaldo, ok, but It's just so much easier to do this with leiningen (no classpath issues etc, just start lein repl and code!)
13:21	Vinzent	hhutch, I haven't tried clojurescript, but don't you think it should be (apply (. shortcut-handler registerShortcut) ...)?
13:26	hhutch	Vinzent: no, i need to pass a list of arguments to registerShortcut (a mothod of shortcut-handler) ...
13:27	hhutch	just like (apply str ["a" "b" "c"]) is (str "a" "b" "c")
13:27	Vinzent	(. shortcut-handler registerShortcut) returns that method (which actually is a function)
13:30	hhutch	Vinzent: I'm pretty sure apply doesn't work that way in java interop anyway, that's why you use doto, or am i wrong?
13:33	Vinzent	hhutch, in java (.method class) just calls the method, because in java you can't take it and treat as a function; but it's possible in javascript, so (.method class) returns the function, and to call it you have to use ((.meth class) arg1 arg2) or (. class (method arg1 arg2))
13:36	hhutch	Vinzent: that's all correct, but (. class method) will return a function you can run apply against?
13:36	Vinzent	hhutch, in clojurescript - yes, that's what I'm talking about
13:36	hhutch	(. shortcut-handler (registerShortcut "S" "s"))
13:36	hhutch	(apply (. shortcut-handler registerShortcut) ["S" "s"])
13:37	hhutch	are not equivalent though when I tested it
13:39	Vinzent	is it throws an exception or something? I don't have working clojurescript setup right now, so I can't test it, sorry...
13:40	hhutch	Vinzent: no problem. it compiles, but the JS throws an exception
13:40	hhutch	i'm moving on, i'll figure it out later
14:06	pyr	ahhh, the dreaded Don't know how to create ISeq from: clojure.lang.Symbol
14:44	Vinzent	hhutch, hey, I've set up cljs and played a little with it, looks like function returned by (.method target) syntax can't be used as a normal clojure function, see: http://pastebin.com/rxdqGqED
14:45	licenser	Vinzent: (. target (method))
14:46	Vinzent	licenser, no, we need (apply (.method target) [args])
14:46	Vinzent	is it possible?
14:47	Vinzent	also see this thread: http://tinyurl.com/cukhlgc
14:47	licenser	google wants me to log in the bugger
14:47	licenser	so you want to use apply with it?
14:48	Vinzent	yeah, I want treat function returned by (.m t) as a clojure function
14:52	Vinzent	Interesting that after some calls to (f "a") I've defined g as (.toString sb), and (g) returned "undefinedaaaaaaaa", so it looks like when I invoke (f "a") method of some other object is called
14:52	licenser	Vinzent: I have no clue, I ran in the problem myself but I actually wanted what (. target (method)) does
14:55	Vinzent	ok, then i'd better ask about it on the group
15:07	dmi3y	Hi, guys. Can you help me to find error in this function. It gives me timeout error. - http://pastebin.com/a0zSdnSV
15:11	brehaut	dmi3y: mixing rest and next like that seems awkward
15:13	brehaut	dmi3y: firstly, i wouldnt use loop recur to count a seq (ignoring count for now)
15:14	brehaut	dmi3y: its an obvious case for a reduce #(reduce (fn [a _] (inc a)) 0 %) for instance
15:16	brehaut	dmi3y: heres a cleaned up version of your code (fn [coll] (loop [c 0 s coll] (if (seq s) (recur (inc c) (rest s)) c)))
15:18	dmi3y	thank you very much, I'll ponder that one
15:18	brehaut	dmi3y: if i didnt have a head ache id step through the code and give you a real answer
15:19	dmi3y	that was more than helpful, I appreciate your help
15:20	dmi3y	still not clear, why was it stupid to mix next/rest that way?
15:20	brehaut	im not sure id say stupid, but you are doing the same thing twice in slightly different ways
15:21	brehaut	'the same thing' bar the laziness change
15:21	brehaut	a slight tweak to the recur version: (fn [coll] (loop [c 0 s (seq coll)] (if s (recur (inc c) (next s)) c)))
15:24	dmi3y	thank, it's clear now
15:24	brehaut	cool
15:26	brehaut	obligatory point free nonsense: (comp (partial apply +) (partial map (constantly 1)))
15:26	fridim_	clojurebot, def sin
15:31	Raynes	brehaut: I can't wait for your brush to be in marginalia.
15:31	Raynes	I'm so sick of inconsistent symbol highlights.
15:32	brehaut	Raynes: me too :D
15:33	brehaut	Raynes: the old brush did no structural analysis, just basic tokenization, so it had to use a table of know core names for guessing the highlighting
15:34	Raynes	brehaut: It didn't even highlight 'defn' consistently.
15:34	brehaut	oh dear
15:46	triyo	Anyone had an opportunity to scale the jetty server via Ring library for some heavy hits?
15:46	brehaut	triyo: err
15:47	brehaut	what counts as heavy?
15:47	triyo	err? (error)
15:47	brehaut	sorry, just your question is quite broad
15:47	brehaut	ive had no trouble surviving HN on my blog with ring + jetty (and an nginx gateway)
15:49	triyo	member:brehaut: We have growing number of consumers utilizing SmartMeter data from our data acquisition system.
15:49	triyo	These are period reads via REST services
15:49	triyo	*periodic
15:50	triyo	we looking at about 5m reads a day
15:51	triyo	Pretty short lived http requests though.
15:51	triyo	small playloads
15:52	brehaut	thats more information. unfortunately it means im not really qualified to answer
15:54	triyo	there is no conversation state at all though so I don't foresee any major problem in horizontally scale jetty servers.
15:57	triyo	meaning we don't have to worry about thing such as HTTP sessions, etc.
15:58	triyo	Anyways I'll report back, success or fail.
16:45	mmarczyk	Raynes: ping?
17:03	Raynes	mmarczyk: Pong.
17:06	patrkris_	Raynes: a cake question: would you happen to know why I don't see the ng (nailgun) task, even though I have vimclojure/server as a dep-dependency?
17:06	Raynes	No idea.
17:06	Raynes	Never used vimclojure or ng.
17:07	patrkris_	ok… the task is part of cake, and if-ns is used to see if the vimclojure namespace is available
17:07	patrkris_	oh well, I'll keep trying
17:07	mmarczyk	Raynes: hi
17:07	Raynes	Hi.
17:08	mmarczyk	would you have a moment to try and run Marginalia's test suite?
17:08	mmarczyk	just want to check if I'm by any chance going crazy
17:08	Raynes	Sure.
17:08	mmarczyk	thanks
17:08	Raynes	mmarczyk: Master?
17:08	mmarczyk	yup
17:08	mmarczyk	no changes, btw
17:08	mmarczyk	I think an existing commit breaks tests, but.....
17:09	Raynes	mmarczyk: Fails because contrib isn't around.
17:09	mmarczyk	oh?
17:09	mmarczyk	no mention of first_page.clj or the like?
17:09	Raynes	Can't find java-utils
17:09	Raynes	Nope.
17:10	mmarczyk	hm.
17:12	mmarczyk	weird, works for me with a fresh checkout; or rather, doesn't work, but complains at a later stage
17:13	Raynes	mmarczyk: After I fix the contrib dependency, I get an error about first_part.clj
17:13	mmarczyk	ok, good :-)
17:13	Raynes	Not good that you have contrib on your classpath though.
17:14	mmarczyk	I don't
17:14	mmarczyk	...I think?
17:14	Raynes	You must.
17:14	mmarczyk	certainly not in lib or lib/dev
17:14	mmarczyk	also, where's the dependency?
17:14	Raynes	Look at helpers.clj
17:14	Raynes	In the test dir.
17:15	mmarczyk	whoa.
17:16	mmarczyk	and yet `lein classpath` contains no mention of contrib
17:16	Raynes	evil
17:16	mmarczyk	surely lein doesn't add contrib in when running tests?
17:16	Raynes	echo $CLASSPATH
17:16	amalloy	mmarczyk: echo $CLASSPATH
17:16	Raynes	amalloy: o/
17:17	mmarczyk	amalloy: not set at my box
17:17	amalloy	and probably also $JAVA_OPTS
17:17	mmarczyk	...on...
17:17	amalloy	or whatever it is
17:17	mmarczyk	likewise
17:17	Raynes	What version of Leiningen?
17:17	mmarczyk	1.6.2
17:18	Raynes	I suggest you see a doctor.
17:18	mmarczyk	hm, actually a checkout of 1.x
17:18	mmarczyk	:-)
17:18	Raynes	Because something about you is sick.
17:18	mmarczyk	seems likely
17:18	mmarczyk	see -- that's why I asked you to run the tests, can't trust myself any more :-P
17:18	Raynes	:p
17:18	Raynes	Anyways, tests don't pass regardless, so you're good.
17:19	mmarczyk	whew ;-P
17:19	mmarczyk	at any rate, first_rate.clj is a problem IMO because of a recent commit which drops try / catch around a require
17:19	mmarczyk	so, armed with the knowledge that it does not only break for me, I shall go forward and revert and maybe submit an issue to complain :-P
17:20	Raynes	:p
17:21	mmarczyk	:-)
17:23	mmarczyk	ok, pushed the fix to #45 and the revert... now to dive inside lein
19:09	seancorfield	gee, web application development / deployment is so drop dead easy with Clojure on Heroku!
19:33	romanandreg	hello… can someone give me a had with core.logic library?
19:33	amalloy	~anyone
19:33	clojurebot	Just a heads up, you're more likely to get some help if you ask the question you really want the answer to, instead of "does anyone ..."
19:34	romanandreg	whenever I'm trying to use the defrel macro, I'm getting the following error:
19:34	romanandreg	"CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Unable to resolve symbol: to-stream in this context"
19:35	romanandreg	for some reason, the maco expands to a method being used called "to-stream" that doesn't seem to be defined :-/
19:40	amalloy	well, ambrosebs might know. i certainly don't
19:41	ambrosebs	using 0.6.5?
19:43	ambrosebs	romanandreg: throw up a gist of your code?
19:43	ambrosebs	and core.logic version
19:44	romanandreg	ambrosebs: https://gist.github.com/1392568
19:45	romanandreg	core.logic v0.6.5
19:46	ambrosebs	to fix use (:use [clojure.core.logic])
19:46	ambrosebs	quick fix at least
19:46	romanandreg	uhmm
19:46	amalloy	oh ouch. non-fully-qualified macroexpansions?
19:47	ambrosebs	i'll have a look at the source
19:47	romanandreg	ambrosebs: heap that do the trick
19:47	romanandreg	yeap that did the trick*
19:48	ambrosebs	yep it's a bug
19:48	ambrosebs	cheers for that
19:48	romanandreg	probably is already fixed in 0.6.6 :-)
19:49	ambrosebs	nope, submitting a patch now :)
21:22	romanandreg	ambrosebs: still there? :-o
21:23	ambrosebs	yep
21:23	romanandreg	I'm getting a strange behaviour on core.logic functions when calling doc to them
21:24	romanandreg	is this normal?
21:24	ambrosebs	which?
21:24	amalloy	hah. i think a "strange behavior" is not normal by definition. the problem is you definition of strange may be wrong
21:25	romanandreg	http://pastie.org/2917274
21:25	romanandreg	amalloy: by strange behaviour I mean, not showing the documentation
21:25	romanandreg	ambrosebs: however when calling source on them over the repl, it works as expected
21:26	romanandreg	and it seems they have a doctstring, on there definition, so that adds a point to the fact that doc is behaving strangely in this case
21:26	romanandreg	s/there/their/
21:26	ambrosebs	right
21:27	ambrosebs	well defrel doesn't have a docstring in 0.6.5
21:27	ambrosebs	but the rest do
21:27	ambrosebs	(I just patched defrel)
21:27	ambrosebs	I don't know why there no docstring printed :(
21:28	romanandreg	ambrosebs: at least we know there is a problem :-)
21:29	romanandreg	ambrosebs: can I ask you some questions about usage?
21:29	romanandreg	of core.logic?
21:29	ambrosebs	shoot
21:29	ambrosebs	,(-> doc meta)
21:29	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Can't take value of a macro: #'clojure.repl/doc, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
21:29	ambrosebs	,(-> + meta)
21:29	clojurebot	nil
21:30	ambrosebs	,(-> #'+ meta)
21:30	clojurebot	{:ns #<Namespace clojure.core>, :name +, :file "clojure/core.clj", :line 919, :arglists ([] [x] [x y] [x y & more]), ...}
21:30	amalloy	ambrosebs: all the ~' in RelHelper makes me seasick, and i think all it does is break things. eg, ~'IRel is less correct than IRel would have been
21:30	romanandreg	ambrosebs: let me update the gists
21:30	ambrosebs	romanandreg: try and eval (-> #'fresh meta)
21:31	romanandreg	ambrosebs: http://pastie.org/2917274
21:32	ambrosebs	romanandreg: David wrote it, I've mentioned it in the ticket: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/LOGIC-22
21:32	ambrosebs	lots of weird hacks
21:32	romanandreg	ambrosebs: good to know ticket is there :-)
21:33	ambrosebs	romanandreg: weird, seems there's no :doc
21:35	ambrosebs	who thinks it's a good idea to print a warning if a string literal is found after the argslist in a defn or defmacro?
21:35	amalloy	ew
21:35	ambrosebs	as in, it was probably supposed to be doc metadata, but it has to go before the args
21:35	romanandreg	ambrosebs: https://gist.github.com/1392568
21:35	amalloy	(defn get-db-host [context] "localhost")
21:35	romanandreg	ambrosebs: check the comments bellow
21:36	ambrosebs	clearly that's the edge case
21:36	amalloy	but i think i agree if more expressions follow
21:36	amalloy	since evaluating a string literal for side effects is pretty bizarre
21:36	ambrosebs	it's a very common error
21:36	ambrosebs	even clojure.core has suffered from it
21:37	amalloy	ambrosebs: i think this problem probably wouldn't even exist if clojure didn't give you an implicit (do) around function bodies
21:37	romanandreg	oh what is wrong is the order of the docstring and args
21:37	ambrosebs	romanandreg: good point!
21:37	romanandreg	ambrosebs: hehehe just stating the obvious :-p you figured that out
21:38	ambrosebs	no, I didn't think of it that way
21:39	amalloy	wait, this conversation is getting fuzzy. is someone proposing (defn foo [x] "docstring" (...))?
21:39	ambrosebs	right
21:39	ambrosebs	but I was proposing printing a warning
21:39	amalloy	no good, because of multiple arities
21:39	amalloy	never mind, i'm talking at cross-purposes here
21:40	romanandreg	ambrosebs: +1 on the warning, you can shoot yourself in the foot easily without it
21:41	ambrosebs	romanandreg: I do it all the time
21:42	romanandreg	ambrosebs: about the gist I sent you, in the comments at the end, I'm trying to infer the parent in a run* call, it works when not using the father function, but it does when doing the function body directly on the run* code
21:42	romanandreg	I'm obviously missing something there...
21:43	ambrosebs	function body needs to be in an "clojure.core.logic/all" form
21:43	ambrosebs	syntactically like "do"
21:43	ambrosebs	or wrap it in an empty fresh, same thing
21:44	romanandreg	ambrosebs: uhmm
21:44	ambrosebs	(defn father [f c] (all (parent f c) (man f)))
21:44	romanandreg	in the second option, I don't see how that might work
21:44	romanandreg	with a fresh in the father function only I mean
21:45	ambrosebs	(defn father [f c] (fresh [] (parent f c) (man f)))
21:45	ambrosebs	probably works :P
21:46	romanandreg	oh… you just define a fresh with an empty vector, interesting
21:46	romanandreg	ambrosebs: what is the purpose of fresh exactly, I'm using it just because it makes it work
21:46	romanandreg	:-)
21:46	ambrosebs	use "all"
21:47	ambrosebs	(defn father [f c] (all (parent f c) (man f)))
21:47	romanandreg	ambrosebs: ok
21:47	ambrosebs	but fresh introduces "fresh" logical variables
21:47	ambrosebs	think of fresh like this
21:47	ambrosebs	(fresh [x y z] (== x y))
21:47	ambrosebs	is like
21:47	ambrosebs	(let [x (lvar) y (lvar) z (lvar)] (all (== x y)))
21:48	ambrosebs	but don't talk about lvar ;)
21:49	romanandreg	ambrosebs: lol, there is a lot of things that are hard to digest here, but I can make it through as long as I'm not to pesky about my understandings of how everything works… I'm not even familiar with prolog, I re-discovered that after Richies talk "Simple made easy"
21:50	ambrosebs	I can go all day, ask away :)
21:50	romanandreg	ambrosebs: thanks… this is the third time I get to this channel I find awesome people like yourself, this community is amazing
21:50	ambrosebs	my Clojure Conj talk will probably come out in the next few weeks, look out for it
21:51	ambrosebs	:D +!
21:51	ambrosebs	+1
21:51	ambrosebs	I go through how to think of core.logic's execution
21:51	ambrosebs	it's a simple concept, but very smart implementation
21:52	romanandreg	ambrosebs: by smart you suggest more complicated for it's own sake? :-)
21:52	romanandreg	too complicated*
21:52	ambrosebs	hmm :)
21:53	ambrosebs	I'll say that it is utter genius and only a handful of people understand it intimately
21:53	ambrosebs	no including me
21:53	ambrosebs	*not
21:53	ambrosebs	as in I don't know what's going on :D
21:53	ambrosebs	but the original implementation is like a couple of hundred lines long
21:54	romanandreg	ambrosebs: well I tried to read it, and I felt a bit dumb, this is way over my clojure foo
21:54	ambrosebs	The Reasoned Schemer's implementation of minikanren in scheme is easier to grap (ha!)
21:54	ambrosebs	*grasp
21:54	romanandreg	ambrosebs: I don't mind feeling dumb though, I'm used to that, luckily I'm stubborn
21:55	ambrosebs	romanandreg: that sounds too familiar.. :)
21:55	romanandreg	ambrosebs: no experience with schemer either (yet)… I got to this Clojure wagon through Haskell :-p
21:56	romanandreg	scheme*
21:56	ambrosebs	scheme's pretty easy after Clojure
22:00	romanandreg	ambrosebs: going back to the gist I sent you and the example that is on it, how do we avoid having adam listed twice on the run* ?
22:01	ambrosebs	what does (match q f) do?
22:02	romanandreg	ambrosebs: hehehe… well I don't know exactly, but what I believe, it matches the q with the entries that match the criteria of father
22:02	romanandreg	there is only one, but is repeated twice… once per child I guess
22:02	ambrosebs	or, where does it come from?
22:03	romanandreg	ambrosebs: I think I don't quite get the "where does it come from?" question :-/
22:03	ambrosebs	I don't recognize "match", what namespace is it in?
22:04	romanandreg	oh
22:04	romanandreg	(use '[clojure.core.logic :rename {== match}])
22:04	ambrosebs	romanandreg: BTW if you're just hacking with core.logic, use this ns declaration: https://github.com/frenchy64/Logic-Starter/blob/master/src/logic_introduction/facts.clj#L1
22:05	ambrosebs	== is pronounced unify
22:05	romanandreg	ambrosebs: hehe good to know
22:05	romanandreg	ambrosebs: going to rename it like that then
22:06	ambrosebs	could you update the gist with your changes?
22:06	ambrosebs	easier if I see the whole story
22:07	romanandreg	sure… well I'm testing on repl so I'm going to comment how I'm importing everything on it through comments
22:10	romanandreg	ambrosebs: https://gist.github.com/1392568
22:14	ambrosebs	don't import unify
22:14	ambrosebs	it's just much easier to use the namespace decl I suggested
22:15	ambrosebs	unify is not the same as ==
22:15	ambrosebs	but == is pronounced "unify" :P
22:16	alexbaranosky	does anyone know if cake is going to continue to be supported after the merger with Leiningen? Mostly I am trying to weasel out of having to update the cake midje pluging
22:29	brweber2	ambrosebs: Maybe IRC is better than twitter for this :)
22:29	ambrosebs	brweber2: LOL
22:29	ambrosebs	god twitter is hopeless with replies
22:29	brweber2	ambrosebs: Sure is. Anyway, (source identity) in 1.3.0 confirms that it was fixed.
22:31	ambrosebs	,(source identity)
22:31	clojurebot	Source not found
22:31	ambrosebs	:)
22:32	ambrosebs	brweber2: did you see the minikanren demo at the conj?
22:32	brweber2	ambrosebs: No, stupidly I skipped it. 100% kicking myself for that....
22:32	brweber2	Hmmm, does clojurebot allow contrib libraries to be loaded?
22:33	amalloy	brweber2: if they happen to be on his classpath, sure. but i doubt if many are, especially since he's running on 1.3
22:34	brweber2	amalloy: Well, 1.3.0 is what I'd like to see in this case, but just thinking out loud :)
22:35	ambrosebs	,(use 'clojure.core.logic)
22:35	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate clojure/core/logic__init.class or clojure/core/logic.clj on classpath: >
22:36	ambrosebs	brweber2: it was recorded, never fear
22:37	brweber2	,clojure-version
22:37	clojurebot	{:major 1, :minor 3, :incremental 0, :qualifier nil}
22:37	brweber2	,(doc source)
22:37	clojurebot	"([n]); Prints the source code for the given symbol, if it can find it. This requires that the symbol resolve to a Var defined in a namespace for which the .clj is in the classpath. Example: (source filter)"
22:37	brweber2	,(source identity)
22:37	clojurebot	Source not found
22:39	brweber2	,(source println)
22:39	clojurebot	Source not found
22:41	brweber2	Hmm, source sure seems like it would be a useful function to have in clojurebot… I wonder if it was removed for sandbox reasons?
22:42	wiseen	is there a prettier way to write : (let [top (atom nil)] (swap! queue (fn [queue] (reset! top (first queue)) (pop queue)))) - assuming queue is a atom containing a collection value
22:43	wiseen	ideally I would return two values from (swap!) but that can't be done afaik
22:43	ambrosebs	,(use 'clojure.repl)
22:43	clojurebot	nil
22:43	ambrosebs	,(source println)
22:43	clojurebot	Source not found
22:43	ambrosebs	source
22:44	ambrosebs	,source
22:44	clojurebot	#<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Can't take value of a macro: #'clojure.repl/source, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)>
22:45	amalloy	wiseen: i don't think your version is just un-pretty, it's actively not-working
22:46	amalloy	in case of contention
22:46	wiseen	amalloy, how so ?
22:47	amalloy	wiseen: i guess it depends what you're doing with top. you're trying to deref it after the swap happens?
22:48	wiseen	amalloy, yes
22:48	wiseen	that would happen at the end of let so it just returns top value
22:48	wiseen	(let [top (atom nil)] ... @top)
22:48	amalloy	in that case, you might "miss" the value top was set to by thread 1, if thread 2 changes it between the reset! and your deref
22:49	wiseen	ah but top is thread local
22:49	wiseen	it's a local scope variable
22:50	amalloy	oh, i see
22:50	amalloy	well, then this will work but is gross
22:50	amalloy	the easiest solution is to use a ref
22:51	amalloy	which lets you (dosync (alter x f) (return whatever you want))
22:52	amalloy	it's possible with an atom, if you choose to define the atom's value as a pair of [data, return-value]. your swap! reads data and writes both; when it's done you look at the return-value
22:53	wiseen	amalloy, your're right - nice !
22:54	amalloy	i've done that a few times in pointless pursuit of atoms, but a ref is less hacky
22:54	wiseen	still would be nice to have some (magic-return-type foo) that you can return from swap! and first value be applied to the atom rest returned from swap!, I don't think this behavior is an edge case I think it's often that you need to modify atom value and return some other data (like pop an element :))