2011-08-31
| 00:14 | chewbranca | what's the recommended lib for interacting with sql? (sqlite and postgres) |
| 00:19 | gstamp | I'm not sure what's recommended by you can find a list of them here: http://clojure-libraries.appspot.com/category/136007 |
| 00:19 | srid | which clojure resource/book would you recommend to *thoroughly* learn clojure and its standard library functions? |
| 00:19 | srid | akin to 'python in a nutshell' that I used for python back in 2003 |
| 00:20 | chewbranca | gstamp: ahh cool, haven't seen that site before, was using clojure-toolbox.com |
| 00:20 | gstamp | I try to keep it fairly up-to-date |
| 00:21 | chewbranca | the clojure.contrib.sql (now: https://github.com/clojure/java.jdbc) appears to be the most widely used (or blogged about and found by google), but is lacking in docs and examples compared to https://github.com/LauJensen/clojureql |
| 00:22 | amalloy | srid: try again, but don't put "nutshell" and "thorough" in the same sentence? |
| 00:22 | chewbranca | gstamp: well done! glad to see another site with a variety of clojure resources |
| 00:22 | chewbranca | srid: http://java.ociweb.com/mark/clojure/article.html that's a good place to start (at least I've found it useful and up to date) |
| 00:23 | amalloy | anyway, the only way to become thoroughly familiar with clojure and its standard libraries to write a lot of clojure and (just as important) read a lot of clojure |
| 00:24 | srid | what do you mean "read a lot of clojure"? |
| 00:24 | chewbranca | srid: read source code of good projects |
| 00:25 | amalloy | not even good projects. i mean, sure, prefer good projects |
| 00:25 | amalloy | just read source code of any clojure program. you'll learn something |
| 00:25 | chewbranca | amalloy: very true |
| 00:28 | ddwwk_ | evenin' |
| 00:30 | ddwwk_ | where are the irc logs kept? |
| 00:31 | ddwwk_ | n01se |
| 00:31 | ddwwk_ | got it |
| 00:31 | chewbranca | gstamp: hey for the editing section, I want to give a shoutout to slimv (https://github.com/vim-scripts/slimv.vim) which is awesome, swank client in vim with a nice paredit plugin as well |
| 00:35 | polypus74 | chewbranca: ty for tip. paredit definitely an incentive to learn vim |
| 00:35 | chewbranca | polypus74: well slimv is a port of slime for emacs, so as much as I love vim, emacs is probably better to learn in regards to clojure/lisp if you don't know either yet |
| 00:36 | polypus74 | already on emacs/paredit, but i like the vim philosophy better. no paredit was a real downer, until your post that is |
| 00:37 | chewbranca | polypus74: oh cool! well in that case, slimv rocks, works great with swank-clojure, gives you a repl directly in vim and the paredit support works well |
| 00:37 | gstamp | chewbranca: feel free (or I'm happy to edit it if you don't have a google login) |
| 00:38 | chewbranca | gstamp: oh cool, yeah I can add that in |
| 00:49 | chewbranca | gstamp: http://clojure-libraries.appspot.com/show/141002 |
| 00:51 | gstamp | chewbranca: thanks! |
| 00:51 | chewbranca | gstamp: no problem, good job on the site! |
| 01:28 | amcnamara | amalloy_: any idea what would cause java.util.concurrent.RejectedExecutionException when running 4clojure locally? something to do with clojail permissions perhaps? |
| 01:28 | amcnamara | exception is thrown on all page loads |
| 01:28 | accel_ | is there any clojure addon taht allows static typing? |
| 01:30 | scottj | accel_: no, there's a logic tutorial that explores static typing and there's the potential for clojurescript to someday use google closure's static type checking |
| 01:30 | amcnamara | accel_: you can use type hints though, not static but improve performance slightly |
| 01:31 | scottj | and there's a defn macro that lets you automatically add pre/posts based checking types |
| 01:33 | accel_ | i care less about performance |
| 01:33 | accel_ | and more about finding bugs at compile time |
| 01:42 | amcnamara | accel_: you can try asserting against a type, but I'm not sure how idiomatic that is |
| 01:49 | tomoj | wouldn't be at compile time anyway? |
| 01:52 | khaliG | just got my copy of Joy of Clojure, looks great. Is it intended to be read from cover to cover or as a reference? |
| 02:13 | jblomo | is prxml being released for 1.3.0? |
| 02:18 | scottj | CL library that claims to be almost as good as gclosure https://github.com/mishoo/cl-uglify-js |
| 04:07 | kzar | ,(apply or [true true false]) <- How can I do something like that? |
| 04:07 | clojurebot | #<CompilerException java.lang.RuntimeException: Can't take value of a macro: #'clojure.core/or, compiling:(NO_SOURCE_PATH:0)> |
| 04:08 | opqdonut | kzar: (defn orf [x y] (or x y)) |
| 04:08 | kzar | opqdonut: Oh and then reduce right? |
| 04:09 | opqdonut | but also, ##(some identity [true true false]) |
| 04:09 | lazybot | ⇒ true |
| 04:10 | opqdonut | and, ##(every? identity [true true false]) |
| 04:10 | lazybot | ⇒ false |
| 04:10 | opqdonut | those are the equivalents of apply or and apply and |
| 04:11 | kzar | opqdonut: Gotya thanks |
| 05:30 | clgv | Is there any support in leiningen to "lein deps && lein install" multiple projects that form a dependency tree with one leiningen command? |
| 06:04 | clgv | "lein sub" seems promising |
| 07:52 | kumarshantanu | clgv: There is a lein-sub plugin |
| 07:53 | kumarshantanu | which will have much better support in Leiningen 2.0 |
| 07:53 | clgv | kumarshantanu: yes thats what I found before ;) |
| 07:53 | clgv | but indeed I need something different like "build all checkouts" |
| 07:54 | clgv | and that has to be recursively and build each only once |
| 07:54 | kumarshantanu | clgv: In lein 2.0 you can specify fine-grained chain of actions |
| 07:54 | michaelr525 | Hello! |
| 07:54 | kumarshantanu | But that is not ready yet |
| 07:55 | clgv | ah ok. I hope they adjust the deletion so that .gitignore files (or "hidden linux files") are not deleted |
| 07:56 | kumarshantanu | clgv: Can you file a bug to have it on the collective TODO list? |
| 07:58 | clgv | kumarshantanu: not really. a github account is needed for it, it seems |
| 08:00 | kumarshantanu | clgv: Okay, so the error description is something like "`lein clean` should not remove the hidden (beginning with a period) files"? |
| 08:00 | kumarshantanu | I can file the bug |
| 08:00 | clgv | kumarshantanu: yes. but it's not only lein clean. lein deps also deletes them |
| 08:01 | clgv | kumarshantanu: clean deletes them in classes/ and deps in lib/ |
| 08:04 | kumarshantanu | clgv: Right, I can reproduce the bug -- however, I have a question |
| 08:05 | kumarshantanu | Why would you keep anything in "lib" or "classes"? They may not be required to put in version control at all |
| 08:07 | clgv | Eclipse/CCW does not create them when they are missing, so it is annoying to have to create them after a "git clone" |
| 08:08 | lnostdal_ | i've probably asked this a couple of times, but how does one go about getting slime to catch this exception: (.start (Thread. (fn [] (/ 42 0)))) ? .. it ends up "outside" of slime now, back in the terminal where `lein swank' was started |
| 08:09 | kumarshantanu | clgv: It seems you need this fixed for a development workflow you follow -- can you share what is your workflow? Is "classes" or "lib/*" on your Eclipse project classpath? |
| 08:09 | clgv | "lib/*" is. I am currently changing my workfolow a bit. |
| 08:10 | clgv | "classes" is as well |
| 09:27 | michaelr525 | sleepy@work |
| 09:27 | michaelr525 | maybe it's an idea for a website |
| 09:27 | clgv | a blog ;) |
| 09:27 | michaelr525 | sleepyTube.com |
| 09:27 | michaelr525 | :) |
| 09:28 | michaelr525 | wake me up before you go go |
| 09:31 | bsteuber | what's the most common clojure css generating solution? |
| 09:33 | st3fan | bsteuber: 'vi main.css' ? :) |
| 09:35 | Raynes | bsteuber: Marginalia has a nice little css generator. |
| 09:37 | bsteuber | found gaka and cssgen so far |
| 09:37 | bsteuber | as stand-alone libe |
| 09:41 | thorwil | bsteuber: a recent announcement of https://github.com/rathwell/clj-style mentioned gaka, cssgen, and csslj |
| 09:44 | bsteuber | thanks |
| 10:15 | cees_ | Hi, does anyone now a gracefull way to get out of a clojure program that parses a stream of input commands via (doseq [c (BufferedReader. *in*)] (processCommand c)? |
| 10:15 | cees_ | Of course I can press ^D or ^C, but that kills my clojure.repl too. |
| 10:16 | joegallo | loop/recur instead of doseq and have a special "quit" command where you don't recur? |
| 10:17 | joegallo | (when (not= c "quit") (processCommand c) (recur ...) |
| 10:17 | cees_ | Joegallo Thanks, that sound simple. Should have thought of it myself :-) |
| 10:42 | arohner | how do I convert a j.u.Vector to a seq? |
| 10:45 | polypus74 | arohner: just calling seq on it should do the trick |
| 10:45 | arohner | polypus74: I'm getting "Don't know how to create ISeq from: java.util.Vector$1" |
| 10:46 | clgv | it already "is a seq" - see ##(map inc (java.util.Vector. (range 10))) |
| 10:46 | lazybot | ⇒ (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10) |
| 10:46 | joegallo | it seems like you aren't passing in a vector, then, but some anonymous class defined inside the vector class (hence the $1) |
| 10:47 | joegallo | are you sure it's a Vector? |
| 10:49 | joegallo | somebody is calling elements somewhere, Vector$1 is the anonymous Enumeration class defined inside Vector |
| 10:49 | joegallo | if you want to keep the rest of the code as is, use enumeration-seq, i guess |
| 10:50 | arohner | joegallo: that did it, thanks |
| 11:00 | gtrak | is there a way to manually fail a test in clojure.test? |
| 11:04 | dakrone | gtrak: (is false) |
| 11:05 | gtrak | dakrone, i can put that anywhere within the body? |
| 11:05 | dakrone | yep |
| 12:48 | srid | amalloy_: (replying to yesterday's message) how did you personally learn clojure? |
| 12:50 | hugod | anyone else notice that :gen-class doesn't statically resolve protected method calls on the class it is extending? |
| 12:53 | ejackson | hugod: I know it doesn't extend final |
| 12:53 | ejackson | that kicked me about for a little while |
| 13:03 | llasram | Convention question: what's the most idiomatic way of expressing something needing both initialization and finalization? |
| 13:03 | llasram | Like `with-open' handles objects which need to be .close'd when they leave scope, but with custom behavior. |
| 13:03 | llasram | What I have right now is `open' & `close' functions and a `with-foo' macro which takes a binding form of [name args-to-open]. It just looks a little sloppy to me because `name' isn't literally bound to `args', but `(open args)' |
| 13:09 | khaliG | Is there any project for adding a loop feature to the language? |
| 13:12 | technomancy | one loop feature's not good enough for ya? |
| 13:15 | joly | ,(doc loop) |
| 13:15 | clojurebot | "([bindings & body]); Evaluates the exprs in a lexical context in which the symbols in the binding-forms are bound to their respective init-exprs or parts therein. Acts as a recur target." |
| 13:15 | khaliG | technomancy, no i mean a real loop :) |
| 13:16 | llasram | khaliG: How is that not a real loop? |
| 13:16 | khaliG | see http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/shivers/papers/loop.pdf and http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3704713569771882785 |
| 13:18 | hiredman | khaliG: common lisp's loop is seen as not abstract enough |
| 13:18 | hiredman | or not declaritive enough I guess |
| 13:18 | hiredman | because you can't parallelize it |
| 13:19 | khaliG | yeah and CL:LOOP involves mutation of loop variables |
| 13:19 | khaliG | but i think Olin shows how to do make a functional one which would fit clojure perhaps |
| 13:19 | llasram | What about clojure's for/doseq? Not the same syntax, but it looks like you con do similar stuff |
| 13:21 | khaliG | yea that's handy sometimes but still fairly limited imho |
| 13:22 | llasram | What's something that the cl:loop makes easier? |
| 13:22 | Vinzent | I saw clj-iter somewhere ob github... |
| 13:24 | khaliG | Vinzent, thank you, i'm a fan of iterate :) |
| 13:25 | khaliG | sweet that's exactly what i was looking for! |
| 13:28 | Vinzent | khaliG, it'd be cool to add it to the new contrib, wdyt? |
| 13:29 | khaliG | would be cool indeed |
| 13:31 | khaliG | Vinzent, would be nice too if clj-iter did code-walking too |
| 13:32 | chewbranca | technomancy: fun bbq script, worked like a charm |
| 13:35 | technomancy | chewbranca: hehe; awesome |
| 13:47 | amalloy | amcnamara: broken version of lein |
| 13:50 | amalloy | srid: i read JoC, and then wrote and read a bunch of clojure |
| 13:50 | amalloy | and hung out in #clojure a lot, asking and answering questions |
| 14:11 | gtrak` | how would i check that the input is a bytearray? |
| 14:13 | opqdonut | you mean a byte[]? |
| 14:13 | opqdonut | say (instance? (something Byte/CLASS) x) |
| 14:13 | opqdonut | I'm trying to remember what "something" was :) |
| 14:14 | amalloy | &(Class/forName "[B") |
| 14:14 | lazybot | ⇒ [B |
| 14:14 | amalloy | &(instance? (Class/forName "[B") (byte-array 0)) |
| 14:14 | lazybot | ⇒ true |
| 14:14 | opqdonut | oh, that's good |
| 14:15 | opqdonut | but there's something like: &(instance? (.getClass (java.lang.reflect.Array/newInstance Byte/CLASS 1)) (byte-array 0)) |
| 14:15 | opqdonut | gah |
| 14:16 | opqdonut | ,(instance? (.getClass (java.lang.reflect.Array/newInstance Byte/TYPE 1)) (byte-array 0)) |
| 14:16 | clojurebot | true |
| 14:16 | gtrak` | ah.... |
| 14:17 | amalloy | opqdonut: j.l.r.Array/newInstance is like thirty times more verbose than make-array or into-array |
| 14:17 | opqdonut | ISTR there being something that gave the array class when given the element class |
| 14:17 | gtrak` | that's really complicated |
| 14:17 | opqdonut | yeah, amalloy's solution is fine |
| 14:17 | amalloy | but i don't see anything in j.l.reflect or j.l.Class that would turn Foo.class into Foo[].class |
| 14:18 | opqdonut | yeah. something that I found with google actually says getClass+newInstance is the canonical generic way of doing that |
| 14:20 | amalloy | it probably is, although i bet apache commons has something better |
| 14:23 | amalloy | i've apparently lost the ability to compile and run simple java apps from the CLI |
| 14:23 | xicubed | i am starting out. i got "lein ring server" to run but how do I stop it? Ctrl-z gets me back to the shell but if I run it again the port is taken. |
| 14:23 | r9 | @xicubed: ctrl-z suspends a process |
| 14:24 | amalloy | ah, no. just forgot my package declaration. anyway, it looks like java can use the nice syntax `byte[].class` for literals |
| 14:24 | r9 | try "fg" |
| 14:24 | r9 | that will bring it to the foreground |
| 14:24 | r9 | then do Ctrl+C |
| 14:24 | r9 | http://www.linuxtutorialblog.com/post/tutorial-the-best-tips-tricks-for-bash |
| 14:24 | r9 | read up on process control |
| 14:27 | xicubed | thx - got it working |
| 14:31 | amalloy | opqdonut: it looks like someone wrote a library for it, at least, but amazingly i don't see it in apache commons. seems more useful than some of the crap they shove in there |
| 14:31 | amalloy | http://code.google.com/p/reflectutils/source/browse/trunk/src/main/java/org/azeckoski/reflectutils/ArrayUtils.java#48 |
| 15:06 | amcnamara | amalloy: ah, thanks. It seems to only bail on gzip so I removed that handler for now, I'll try building both ring and clojail sans-lein later to see if it fixes. |
| 15:08 | amalloy | amcnamara: i use cake, myself, but i know people who have used lein successfully. at least once, lein didn't work, and it exhibited this failure mode. switching to a working version of lein fixed it |
| 15:09 | coopernurse | clojurescript folks: does it offer any help in terms of DOM manipulation and event callbacks? or is that something google closure would assist with? or neither? |
| 15:09 | technomancy | amcnamara: is this about the rejected execution thing? |
| 15:09 | amcnamara | technomancy: yeah, |
| 15:10 | coopernurse | in particular I'm interested in help avoiding memory leaks resulting from orphaned DOM event listeners, etc |
| 15:10 | technomancy | amcnamara: if you make your main thread block on the server it'll work |
| 15:10 | amalloy | the issue is that gzip uses a future, which some versions of lein didn't play nice with (technomancy: accurate?) |
| 15:10 | technomancy | amalloy: it's a workaround for the fact that clojure doesn't give you any control over the thread pools it uses |
| 15:10 | amalloy | sure, i understand the cause |
| 15:11 | technomancy | http://p.hagelb.org/shutdown-agents.jpg and http://tech.puredanger.com/2010/06/08/clojure-agent-thread-pools/ |
| 15:11 | technomancy | having your main thread block takes care of it |
| 15:11 | technomancy | clojurebot: rejectedexecutionexception? |
| 15:11 | clojurebot | RejectedExecutionException in swank means you need to upgrade swank to 1.3.2 or higher. |
| 15:12 | technomancy | hmm... not quite relevant here |
| 15:12 | amalloy | amcnamara: anyway, we also use an agent that gets updated every time someone solves a problem, so just disabling gzip wouldn't completely fix your issue |
| 15:13 | polypus74 | given some java class over which i have no control, how would i go about making seq callable on instances of it. is it possible? |
| 15:14 | technomancy | amcnamara: is that something you can do? |
| 15:15 | arohner | polypus74: what clojure syntax do you want? |
| 15:15 | arohner | polypus74: (my-seq)? |
| 15:15 | amcnamara | this is running a bit over my head, but I'll spend the afternoon figuring it out :) |
| 15:15 | polypus74 | arohner: (seq instance) |
| 15:15 | technomancy | polypus74: seq isn't a protocol (yet?) |
| 15:15 | technomancy | so not really |
| 15:15 | polypus74 | arohner: (my-seq ...) i can figure out |
| 15:16 | arohner | polypus74: since seq isn't a protocol, you have to implement ISeq |
| 15:17 | polypus74 | ok ty guys |
| 15:17 | arohner | polypus74: another (crazy) option would be to make your own fork of clojure, that adds to clojure.lang.RT.seqFrom(Object) |
| 15:17 | hiredman | you can follow the lead of enumeration-seq |
| 15:18 | amalloy | and iterator-seq |
| 15:18 | arohner | yeah, that's a pretty good idea |
| 15:18 | hiredman | maybe it is interator-seq I am thinking of |
| 15:19 | polypus74 | i'll have a look |
| 15:33 | gtrak` | can you do (binding ...) on a private fn var in another namespace? |
| 15:34 | amalloy | hiredman: no, i think enumeration-seq exists also |
| 15:36 | hiredman | gtrak`: yes |
| 15:37 | gtrak` | it seems to ignore me when i try |
| 15:39 | amalloy | are you trying to rebind a non-dynamic var in 1.3, then? |
| 15:40 | gtrak` | 1.2, just a (defn- |
| 15:40 | gtrak` | maybe I need to use var on the calling function? |
| 15:40 | gtrak` | to refer to the one i'm rebinding? |
| 15:41 | gtrak` | nope |
| 15:43 | michaelr525 | heya! |
| 15:43 | r9 | clojurebot: rejectedexecutionexception? |
| 15:43 | clojurebot | RejectedExecutionException in swank means you need to upgrade swank to 1.3.2 or higher. |
| 15:43 | r9 | clojurebot: runtimeerror? |
| 15:43 | clojurebot | excusez-moi |
| 16:30 | sritchie | technomancy: is it okay to specify "LATEST" as the version for some dependency/ |
| 16:30 | sritchie | ? |
| 16:30 | sritchie | I'd thought that was the case, but I'm getting a not found error, with lein |
| 16:32 | technomancy | there's a way to get the newest version; I think it's in the faq |
| 16:32 | technomancy | I've never used it myself |
| 16:36 | sritchie | technomancy: looks like [0,) works, I |
| 16:36 | sritchie | 'll check the faq for the accepted way |
| 16:36 | Netpilgrim | sritchie: I don't know why it doesn't work with Leiningen, but you might consider using RELEASE instead of LATEST to avoid snapshots. |
| 16:37 | sritchie | Netpilgrim: yeah, this is really just for internal dev -- we've got a project with our thrift schema and generated code, so I just want to pull in anything on an update |
| 16:37 | sritchie | but that's a good key to know about |
| 17:08 | jli | on line 74 of clojurescript/src/cljs/cljs/reader.cljs, should the "#" be a \#? |
| 17:08 | jli | that is, should the "#" string be a \# character? seems like it.. |
| 17:14 | jli | oh, I guess it doesn't matter because chars become 1-character strings in javascript ? |
| 17:15 | raek | yes |
| 17:20 | gtrak` | it seems that binding is broken from run-tests on swank, yet it works in the repl, what's the dealio? |
| 17:22 | zippy314 | If I have functions declared in two namespaces (i.e. in two files) that I'd like to be able to use in both namespaces, how do I declare that in the "use" declaration at the beginning of each file? I can't seem to get anything to work. It acts as though there is a strict usage hierarchy where two files can't mutually refer to each-other. Is this true? |
| 17:24 | joegallo | no circular dependencies |
| 17:25 | gtrak` | ah wait, i was just doing it wrong |
| 17:26 | amalloy | zippy314: yes, it is true |
| 17:26 | zippy314 | Ouch! |
| 17:28 | zippy314 | Why is this? It seems like a huge limitation. Are there any workarounds? |
| 17:29 | scgilardi | search for compilation unit at: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2466731 |
| 17:29 | scgilardi | workaround is to make the hierarchy a non-cyclic graph by rearranging the contents of the namespaces |
| 17:33 | amalloy | it's a pain every so often, but most of the time if you have a problem it's because your design isn't very good - too many pieces of the design all know about each other |
| 17:36 | amalloy | and the limitation exists so that clojure can compile a given form based only on forms it's already seen, rather than needing your whole program all at once. if a *correct* form could depend on code not yet read, it would mean that, for example, (defn bar [x] x) (defn foo [] (bsr baz)) couldn't be flagged as an error immediately - maybe you're planning to define bsr later |
| 17:37 | gtrak` | you can do forward declarations just like C right? can that fix cyclic dependencies? |
| 17:38 | amalloy | not between namespaces |
| 17:53 | gtrak` | what we really need is a .h file paradigm |
| 17:53 | amalloy | (defmacro pretend-this-is-C [& body] ...) |
| 18:07 | TimMc | zippy314: In my experience, it is pretty rare for a wad of code I have written to both have large-scale cyclic dependencies and also be otherwise well-structured. |
| 18:07 | TimMc | I usually end up factoring out a "common" namespace. |
| 18:07 | TimMc | It can happen though, I guess. |
| 18:12 | zippy314 | In my case, I'm working around this by having a global registry of certain functions that I can lookup by name at runtime. The issue is that these functions are created by macros, and they represent signals that "agents" can receive. I was trying to have these "agents" (which can contain other agents) to map to clojure name-spaces. But the problem is that parent and child "agents" can send each-other signals (which are |
| 18:41 | sjl | Anyone know why an input stream defined like so: (DataInputStream. (BufferedInputStream. (.getInputStream socket))) would read data correctly when talking to a server on localhost but not read correctly when talking to a server over a network? |
| 19:26 | amcnamara | technomancy, amalloy: Got it sorted out by binding a flag to block run-jetty (using :join?) when called from -main, while keeping the run fn non-blocking by default. Thanks for the help. |
| 21:43 | solussd | leiningen question- I added ':main my.package.core' to my project.clj but 'leon repl' starts me at clojure.core. I was under the impression that :main would set my namespace in the repl |
| 22:01 | tomoj | solussd: main is, afaik, only for setting the main class in the jar manifest |
| 22:02 | solussd | ah. sad. Ideally, I'd like to build a jar that launches a repl with the namespace set to something |
| 22:16 | tomoj | hm.. you could just supply a main function that calls clojure.main/main |
| 22:16 | cemerick | solussd: Pretty easy to do. |
| 22:16 | tomoj | but that will be a crappy repl I think? |
| 22:16 | cemerick | heh, what tomoj said. |
| 22:16 | cemerick | crappy? |
| 22:16 | tomoj | or is it the same as `lein repl` |
| 22:16 | tomoj | never use either.. |
| 22:16 | solussd | well the idea is they'd be able to kick off a handful of API tests |
| 22:16 | solussd | they don't know clojure |
| 22:17 | tomoj | putting them in a repl seem strange to me, then :) |
| 22:17 | solussd | it's a gateway drug |
| 22:17 | tomoj | I'm can't imagine getting addicted to manually balancing parentheses |
| 22:18 | solussd | most of the commands would be of the (something arg arg arg) nature |
| 22:18 | tomoj | then why not just `java -jar foo.jar something arg arg arg`? really in an effort to get them to see the light? |
| 22:19 | solussd | yeah.. really wish java didn't take so long to start up. |
| 22:19 | tomoj | ah |
| 22:19 | solussd | maybe I'll throw together a swing ui. :D |
| 22:20 | solussd | do we have a nice gui framework yet? |
| 22:26 | amalloy | lein has an option somewhere that's like "run this code every time you start a repl" |
| 22:29 | amalloy | something like :repl-options [:init (fn [] (doto 'myproj.core require in-ns))] |
| 22:29 | amalloy | solussd: ^ |
| 22:31 | tomoj | whoa |
| 22:31 | tomoj | that looks quite useful |
| 22:31 | amalloy | tomoj: that's actually a feature of clojure.main/repl - lein just passes that option on untouched |
| 22:32 | solussd | hm.. didn't work |
| 23:15 | solussd | why would I want to use a gensym instead of ~'body and ~@'body in a macro generated by a macro? |
| 23:20 | solussd | e.g. (defmacro [blah] `(defmacro ~(symbol blah) [~'body] ~@'body)) or (defmacro [blah] `(defmacro ~(symbol blah) [body#] ~@body#)) |
| 23:24 | srid | what is the equivalent of `eval-buffer` for clojure code in emacs? |
| 23:25 | srid | I ran `m-x clojure-jack-in` to get a clojure repl going. now I want to send the entire buffer (if foo.clj) to this buffer. repeatedly (upon edits) |
| 23:25 | srid | note that foo.clj may not be saved to disk yet |
| 23:26 | arohner | srid: C-c C-k, slime-compile-and-load-file, but that reads the file off disk |
| 23:26 | arohner | solussd: sometimes you need to use gensym to create local, unnamed variables |
| 23:27 | srid | arohner: good enough for me; i can remember to save before eval'ing. |
| 23:27 | arohner | srid: I believe it asks if you want to save |
| 23:27 | srid | yes, that's very handy! |
| 23:29 | amalloy | solussd: well, ~@'body will never do what you want in any circumstances |
| 23:30 | solussd | b/c I needed a [& ~'body] ? |
| 23:30 | amalloy | because it will try to splice in '(quote body) |
| 23:32 | solussd | hrm. ~'@body ? :D |
| 23:32 | solussd | is there any way to express this? |
| 23:32 | solussd | without a gensym |
| 23:32 | amalloy | do you have an allergy or something? |
| 23:32 | solussd | mostly just curious |
| 23:33 | solussd | and gensyms look terrible in doc strings. :D |
| 23:33 | amalloy | solussd: so set the :arglists metadata to something else |
| 23:34 | solussd | so, if I want to splice in stuff, I have to use a gensym in this case? |
| 23:34 | amalloy | i don't think it is ever the case that you *have* to use a gensym. they're just syntactic sugar for another construct |
| 23:35 | amalloy | but that construct can get confusing and/or complicated |
| 23:35 | solussd | I'll buy that. Still, is there a way? |
| 23:35 | solussd | mostly b/c I want to understand it |
| 23:35 | amalloy | the quoting is complicated and i'm never quite sure |
| 23:36 | solussd | got it! |
| 23:36 | amalloy | (defmacro foo [name] `(defmacro ~name [& ~'body] `(do ~'~@body))) or something |
| 23:36 | solussd | ~@~'body |
| 23:36 | clojurebot | @ has nothing to do with whether sth is evaluated or not |
| 23:37 | srid | could someone tell me why I get "Unsupported binding" for multiple function bodies? http://dpaste.com/606442/ -- reading the defn syntax at http://clojure.org/special_forms doesn't tell me what is wrong my code. |
| 23:37 | solussd | and yes, that's ugly. |
| 23:37 | solussd | but it makes sense- I'm unquoting a quoted body and splicing it in |
| 23:37 | amalloy | srid: [nil] is wrong |
| 23:38 | srid | how would I match an empty list, then? |
| 23:39 | amalloy | clojure doesn't have pattern matching built in |
| 23:39 | srid | so it *only* does destructuring. |
| 23:39 | amalloy | yes |
| 23:39 | srid | [x & xs] works, but not, say, [2 & xs] |
| 23:41 | amalloy | yes, but see dnolen's match lib |
| 23:42 | srid | there is no if-nil? ah, anything other than nil is true |
| 23:45 | gaze__ | Hey... would someone mind helping me understand how state is passed around? Let's say on the OO side I had some class (no hierarchy) that was used to represent a connection to an FTP server... it might have the host, port, username, etc. as locals, some methods that connect, set that state, list the current directory, etc. |
| 23:45 | gaze__ | I can recognize that you might plop all that into a record and pass it around as the first argument to all associated functions on the lisp side |
| 23:45 | gaze__ | but... is that the right way to do it? |
| 23:47 | gaze__ | in haskell I'd probably just make a state monad or something |
| 23:49 | amalloy | there are a million ways to do it. you could mimic the OO approach by having (make-connection foo) return a function for doing stuff; that function would be a closure around whatever connection-specific data you need |
| 23:49 | amalloy | (defn make-connection [host] (let [connection (...open-connection)] (fn [operation] (case operation :close (.close connection))))) |
| 23:50 | srid | this is my implementation of list reverse function without using the core `reverse` - http://dpaste.com/606444/ ... can it be improved? |
| 23:51 | amalloy | srid: improved is super-vague |
| 23:51 | amalloy | anyway, the answer is surely yes. try (shallow-reverse (range 100000)) |
| 23:52 | srid | improved ... with respect to idiomatic clojure, and am-I-forgetting-a-core-function thing. |
| 23:52 | srid | i couldn't use cons/conj, so had to settle for concat. |
| 23:53 | srid | yes, it sucks at performance. |
| 23:54 | amalloy | did you try the above? |
| 23:54 | srid | does it kill my emacs proces? |
| 23:55 | ambrosebs_ | has clojure.contrib.def been promoted/moved to contrib 1.3? |
| 23:55 | gaze__ | okay... that kinda reminds me of something I've seen in common lisp |
| 23:55 | gaze__ | the sorta make-* idiom and then closing over the state |
| 23:55 | amalloy | (first (shallow-reverse (range 1e5))) if you're worried about printing too much |
| 23:55 | amalloy | i strongly suspect you get a stackoverflow |
| 23:55 | amalloy | gaze__: it's far from the only clojure style |
| 23:55 | amalloy | but it's one that's entirely reasonable and might apply here |
| 23:56 | gaze__ | what's the sort of preferred way? I don't particularly like the switching |
| 23:56 | amalloy | it depends on how much state you have, and how much you want it to change over time |
| 23:57 | srid | yes, I get stackoverflow. let me think how to fix this |
| 23:57 | gaze__ | well, what are some other options? |
| 23:58 | srid | right, xs keeps accumulating over the stack in the order of N*N |
| 23:59 | gaze__ | I feel like this is kinda one of the first things I wanna ask coming from an imperative background... and it's a pretty well defined thing anyway. Has anyone written anything about it? |
