#clojure – 2011-06-17

2011-06-17

00:27	seancorfield	promise/deliver vs delay - if you know what the resulting expression is going to be but you just don't want it available at initialization time (because it depends on some as yet uncomputed value), is there any reason to use promise (and deliver it when said uncomputed value is computed) vs delay (assuming you know it will never be accessed until after said value is computed?
00:27	seancorfield	it feels like using promise/deliver is "side-effecty" and not very functional...
00:37	ViciousPlant	\/join #python
01:16	zakwilson	I got to talk about Clojure to a .NET meetup I randomly went to because its organizer said it would be about things other than .NET. I wish I'd been more organized.
02:32	Scriptor	is there a nice way to view all the clojars besides http://clojars.org/repo? Alternatively is there a clojure lib for scraping clojars?
02:42	raek	seancorfield: I'm curious... what lead to the cyclic dependency?
02:46	tomoj	can you generate an efficient permutation on longs using a seeded Random? or do you need a skippable random?
03:26	nathanmarz	tomoj: i don't think so -- the docs for random say it won't generate all possible longs. I think you can do it by using the lower or upper half of a UUID
03:28	tomoj	hmm
03:28	tomoj	that will give me one piece of one permutation
03:30	tomoj	but how to generate the UUIDs repeatedly when you don't know which longs you'll need?
03:30	tomoj	s/repeatedly/repeatably/
03:30	nathanmarz	oh you want it to be repeatable
03:30	nathanmarz	no idea there
03:33	tomoj	actually..
03:33	tomoj	I think the problem is finding f so that (f seed) returns a pseudorandom bijection on the longs
03:34	tomoj	but since it's the longs, I bet having (f seed) just be a hash function would work well enough
03:35	tsdh	If there is some java method setFoo(Map<String, Integer>), can I call that from clojure with (.setFoo my-obj {"One" 1, "Two" 2})?
03:38	raek	tomoj: it might be possible to use a Linear Feedback Shift Register: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_feedback_shift_register
03:39	raek	I think I have read somewhere that you can configure the polynom so that for x bits, it will step through each of the 2^x states once, except for the all-zero one
03:42	tomoj	http://www.cs.rit.edu/~ark/pj/doc/edu/rit/util/DefaultRandom.html
03:42	tomoj	I wonder if that one has that property
03:42	tomoj	if so it would be especially convenient
03:43	tomoj	because it can skip to any step very quickly
03:45	tomoj	wow, it's so simple https://gist.github.com/85e0c07a7cbfe7367d75
04:17	tomoj	that supposedly has a period of about 2^64, but you pass a positive long to skip ahead
04:17	tomoj	so you need two skips to exhaust the period?
04:24	tomoj	indeed
04:29	TobiasRaeder	Morning :)
04:44	tsdh	Is clojure.org down?
04:47	tsdh	Hm, works again...
04:52	tsdh	Is there some conversion utility to convert clojure collections to java collections? Like [1 2 3] ==> ArrayList<Integer>, {"1" 1, "1" 2} ==> HashMap<String, Integer>,...
04:58	sids	tsdh: clojure collections already implement the java collection interfaces
04:59	sids	,(isa? (type []) java.util.List)
04:59	clojurebot	true
04:59	tsdh	sids: Yes, but that doesn't help when you need to set java attributes of Collection/Map types.
05:01	tsdh	Oh, wait. My test was wrong...
05:02	sids	you can get an an ArrayList from a vector like: ##(java.util.ArrayList. [1 2 3])
05:02	sexpbot	⟹ #<ArrayList [1, 2, 3]>
05:05	tsdh	Hm, but that doesn't work recursively. ,(java.util.ArrayList. [ [1 2 3] [4 5 6] ])
05:05	tsdh	##(java.util.ArrayList. [ [1 2 3] [4 5 6] ])
05:05	sexpbot	⟹ #<ArrayList [[1 2 3], [4 5 6]]>
05:05	fliebel	tsdh: check clojure.walk
05:07	tsdh	fliebel: Yes, I've already used it. Just wanted to be sure there's no existing solution.
05:07	raek	tsdh: why is it not enough to use the clojure data structures directly in your case?
05:09	tsdh	I work with some java lib, and when I invoke some java setFoo(List<String>) from clojure, it will most probably work, but as soon someone tries to use getFoo().add("Hi there"), he'll get an UnsupportedOperationException.
05:10	raek	ah, you need the mutation...
05:10	tsdh	Not me, they. :-)
05:11	raek	a recursivly define function would be very easy to write
05:11	raek	-d
05:12	raek	but protocols would be nice here
05:13	tsdh	raek: Yeah, I already have some defmulti for the other way round. Unpacking some java union-like type into native clojure structures.
05:24	raek	tsdh: my idea: https://gist.github.com/1031113
05:25	tsdh	raek: Hey, very nice!
05:32	tsdh	raek: Plugged it in, tested it, and it works fine.
05:49	raek	tsdh: this might not work. there is an ambiguity in the dispatch since a PersistentList is both a ISeq and an Object. maybe a multimethod with a default implementation is better
05:51	tsdh	raek: Anything is an Object. Does the order of classes in extend-protocol not determine the exact dispatching?
05:54	raek	tsdh: it does not
05:58	tsdh	raek: Hm, ok. We support only a small range of attribute types, so I guess I would be fine if I delete Object and add Number, String, Boolean explicitly instead, right?
06:02	raek	tsdh: drop-in replacement with multimethods: https://gist.github.com/1031156
06:02	raek	tsdh: mm, yes. I think so
06:05	tsdh	raek: I think I go with the modified protocol version. It might be faster and I get an error if I've forgotten some type.
06:06	raek	(discussion: http://groups.google.com/group/clojure-dev/browse_thread/thread/fb3a0b03bf3ef8ca/2b5701b57a28236b)
06:08	ilyak	Is there something like (map but not lazy?
06:09	ilyak	something that eagerly applies a function to each seq element
06:10	raek	ilyak: (doall (map ...))
06:10	tsdh	ilyak: (doall (map ...))?
06:10	tsdh	Haha!
06:11	tsdh	:-)
06:11	tsdh	raek: You were faster, but I typed in one more char.
06:11	raek	ilyak: if you don't care about the values, use (dorun (map ...)) or (doseq [element coll] ...)
06:12	raek	doseq has the same syntax as for and can be defined as (dorun (for ...))
06:13	ilyak	raek: That's two levels of indentation
06:13	ilyak	I guess I have to do my own domap
06:15	raek	ilyak: doseq is only one level
06:17	ilyak	nope, doseq is at least five
06:17	ilyak	because "coll" gets really really pushed right
06:18	ilyak	the problem with let-style [bin dings]
06:18	ilyak	is that they indent really bad if there's something complex in there
06:29	raek	then you can break up the complex stuff in with helper functions or let some of the parts
06:34	tsdh	In clj 1.3, is the doc function gone?
06:37	clgv	tsdh: not that I heard of
06:38	tsdh	Got it. It's in the clojure.repl namespace which is not used by default.
06:39	clgv	tsdh: it's used in the repl by default I guess ;)
06:41	tsdh	clgv: No, that's the problem. At least not in the REPLs I get with "lein repl" or SLIME.
06:41	clgv	tsdh: oh ok.
06:41	clgv	I had clojure 1.3 running in CCW
06:42	clgv	but I don't know if there is a possible scenario of a clojure 1.2 repl implementation running 1.3 inside
06:42	clojurebot	Alles klar
06:42	clgv	clojurebot: aber sicher doch
06:42	clojurebot	I don't understand.
06:43	tsdh	clgv: What version? I've seen some discussion on the net that said only version of clojure 1.3 starting with alpha4 are affected.
06:45	clgv	tsdh: what exactly do you mean? I ran the current CCW with a clojure 1.3 alpha8 1-2 weeks ago
06:48	tsdh	clgv: Hm, ok. I use a very recent git version which I frequently update. But I'm pretty sure I have that clojure.repl is not loaded behavior since I've switched to 1.3 a few month ago.
06:49	tsdh	clgv: Maybe CCW knows about this and executes (use 'clojure.repl) for you.
06:50	clgv	tsdh: likely. they don't simply start a clojure.main/repl but use nrepl
06:57	jonasen	Another proof reading / feedback request: https://github.com/jonase/mlx/wiki/Lottery
07:32	fliebel	Reading this, I'm wondering, will the work for Clojure, or is the JVM to bloated for that? http://www.lowendbox.com/blog/yes-you-can-run-18-static-sites-on-a-64mb-link-1-vps/
07:33	fliebel	Running Clojure rockets to 80MB instantly, but even before Android, phones ran Java, so what gives?
07:34	fliebel	Is it just a matter of choosing a smaller heap size?
07:41	raek	(re-find #"^...$" s) == (re-matches #"..." s)
08:46	mattmitchell	is it possible to have a defmacro define multiple argument sets?
08:46	stuartsierra	sure, just like a function
08:47	pdk	(doc defmacro)
08:47	clojurebot	"([name doc-string? attr-map? [params] body] [name doc-string? attr-map? ([params] body) + attr-map?]); Like defn, but the resulting function name is declared as a macro and will be used as a macro by the compiler when it is called."
08:47	pdk	(defmacro foo ([arg1 arg2] ...) ([arg1 arg2 arg3] ...))
08:48	mattmitchell	strange, what do you guys think the problem might be with this: https://gist.github.com/1031351
08:53	raek	mattmitchell: you don't syntax-quote the single-arg version
08:54	raek	so you call the macro itself during macro expansion time
08:54	raek	([body] `(with-server default-core ~body))
08:55	pdk	if one of the arguments in the 2 arg version is optional
08:55	pdk	it's not gonna have an easy time telling which to run :p
08:55	mattmitchell	ahh ok!
08:55	mattmitchell	that makes sense
08:55	mattmitchell	pdk: yeah, i thought about that too
08:56	mattmitchell	pdk: maybe using a pre condition on the server-name arg?
08:59	raek	,((fn ([_] :one) ([_ & _] :many)) 1)
08:59	clojurebot	:one
12:10	clgv	s/clojar/clojure/
12:10	sexpbot	<clgv> always wanted a clojure slingshot :D
12:17	clgv	hmmm is it safe to use 'use multiple times?
12:17	gfrlog	what would be unsafe about it?
12:17	clgv	I mean multiple times for the same namespace in the same file?
12:18	gfrlog	why would you do that? normally you utilize (:use) within the (ns) declaration anyhow
12:19	gfrlog	I don't think I've ever written (use ...) within a clojure file
12:20	clgv	I build a DSL where I only want to have one (:use ..) in (ns ..) to keep it short, but I will have to load some other files which I want to do via a setup macro that I have to use anyway.
12:20	clgv	but it seems safe to call 'use multiple times for the same namespace
12:21	gfrlog	it might well be that calling it the second time has no effect unless you give it the :reload option
12:21	clgv	&(doc use)
12:21	sexpbot	⟹ "([& args]); Like 'require, but also refers to each lib's namespace using clojure.core/refer. Use :use in the ns macro in preference to calling this directly. 'use accepts additional options in libspecs: :exclude, :only, :rename. The arguments and semantics for :exc... http://gist.github.com/1031738
12:22	clgv	,(doc use)
12:22	clojurebot	"([& args]); Like 'require, but also refers to each lib's namespace using clojure.core/refer. Use :use in the ns macro in preference to calling this directly. 'use accepts additional options in libspecs: :exclude, :only, :rename. The arguments and semantics for :exclude, :only, and :rename are the same as those documented for clojure.core/refer."
12:22	clgv	there is a :reload option?
12:23	gfrlog	yeah it's weird that it's not mentioned there. I use it in the repl all the time.
12:23	gfrlog	I bet the emacs folks don't need to bother with all that, so I can see how you might never need to know about it
12:24	clgv	I dont use emacs ;)
12:24	gfrlog	~guards
12:24	clojurebot	SEIZE HIM!
12:25	technomancy	~botsnack
12:25	clojurebot	thanks; that was delicious. (nom nom nom)
12:25	gfrlog	clojurebot needs to eat after a good seizing
12:26	arohner	does anyone have experience using c.c.lazy-xml on documents larger than RAM?
12:27	no_mind	is it possible to convert a lazy sequence to a list ?
12:28	gfrlog	,(class (list* (range 10)))
12:28	clojurebot	clojure.lang.ChunkedCons
12:28	clgv	xml documents larger than RAM: for that document I wonder what the average information per symbol is
12:28	gfrlog	no_mind: for most purposes there's no distinction
12:29	gfrlog	clgv: 1/100 of a bit? :)
12:29	clgv	&(type (doall (range 10)))
12:29	sexpbot	⟹ clojure.lang.LazySeq
12:29	clgv	humm no list obviously...
12:29	gfrlog	still a lazy seq, just already realized
12:29	gfrlog	,(class (list* (range 100000000000)))
12:29	clojurebot	java.lang.ExceptionInInitializerError
12:29	clgv	gfrlog: lol @ 1/100 bit ;)
12:29	gfrlog	,(class (list* (range 1000000)))
12:29	clojurebot	clojure.lang.ChunkedCons
12:30	gfrlog	hmmmm
12:30	gfrlog	,(class (list* (range)))
12:30	clojurebot	clojure.lang.ChunkedCons
12:30	gfrlog	weird
12:30	no_mind	gfrlog: I am generating nodes for enlive. Where I use map to geenrate nodes, I get clojure.lang.LazySeq@905c02 in the output
12:31	gfrlog	no_mind: if you're converting to string, try pr-str instead of str
12:31	gfrlog	,((juxt pr-str str) (range 10))
12:31	clojurebot	["(0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9)" "clojure.lang.LazySeq@9ebadac6"]
12:32	no_mind	gfrlog: nah, I need list not str
12:32	arohner	clgv: I can tell you the doc is 6GB compressed, 30GB uncompressed. that should give you an approximation :-)
12:33	gfrlog	8/5 bits of info per byte of xml
12:33	clgv	arohner: uhhh less than 1/5 bit already ;) but probably much more
12:33	scgilardi	:reload is mentioned in the doc for require
12:33	clgv	err less^^
12:34	gfrlog	no_mind: I'm not sure what you mean by "get clojure.lang.LazySeq@905c02" then
12:35	gfrlog	scgilardi: ah hah -- right, because the doc for use refers to require
12:36	no_mind	gfrlog: the output shows clojure.lang.LazySeq@905c02 instead of html tags. Which means the lazy-seq is not returning the maps contained
12:37	gfrlog	no_mind: what is "the output"?
12:37	gfrlog	to me that implies you're converting the lazy seq to a string at some point
12:37	no_mind	gfrlog: leave it
12:39	gfrlog	,(let [x (range 10)] (map str [x (list* x)]))
12:39	clojurebot	("clojure.lang.LazySeq@9ebadac6" "(0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9)")
13:07	amalloy-	raek, tsdh: you can defmethod Object without worrying about order/overriding, because the multimethod dispatch will check isa? and find the most specific impl
13:16	Cozey	good day. Is there a way to add system-scoped jars to cake project?
13:18	amalloy-	Cozey: there might be, but you shouldn't
13:18	amalloy-	hm. my bouncer seems to be stealing the plain "amalloy" nick
13:19	gfrlog	well that was fun
13:19	amalloy-	gfrlog: that's bizarre. it won't let me. this is like being homeless
13:19	gfrlog	yes, just like it
13:19	halfprogrammer	gfrlog: amalloy: wat u guys up to?
13:19	Cozey	ok so how should I do this: I will deploy to a container, which provides javax.mail.* classes, but for running tests etc i should have this jar somehow added to the project.
13:20	gfrlog	halfprogrammer: mischief?
13:20	justinko	how do I get a symbol's id?
13:20	halfprogrammer	swapping identities
13:20	justinko	the "unique identifer"
13:20	dnolen	justinko: ?
13:20	amalloy	you can do anything with juxt
13:20	justinko	dnolen: the hash id
13:21	amalloy-	gfrlog: i guess i don't understand irc at all. i have that nick registered, even
13:21	dnolen	,(hash 'foo)
13:21	clojurebot	-1634041172
13:21	dnolen	,(hash 'bar)
13:21	clojurebot	-1634229906
13:21	gfrlog	amalloy-: I don't think the NickServ asked me for a pw; but I'm in ERC so I'm not really sure of anything
13:22	dnolen	justinko: I don't think those are guaranteed to be unique tho.
13:22	dnolen	justinko: do you just want to check for object equality?
13:22	justinko	dnolen: sorry, I meant its function representation
13:22	halfprogrammer	gfrlog: you started using emacs!
13:23	gfrlog	amalloy-: I guess the only reasonably way to deal with this is for you to consider me your voice from this point forward. If you ever want to say anything, just let me know.
13:23	gfrlog	halfprogrammer: so far just for IRC
13:23	dnolen	justinko: ?
13:23	justinko	dnolen: the stuff that looks like adfs@fUre74s
13:23	gfrlog	man my fingers are always typing "reasonably" for "reasonable"
13:23	dnolen	justinko: that's just Clojure munging to generate class names for fns.
13:23	halfprogrammer	gfrlog: have fun
13:24	kryft	Are there fancier repls available than the standard + jline?
13:24	dnolen	kryft: cake
13:24	amalloy-	emacs
13:24	gfrlog	halfprogrammer: I gotta do things like google for how to switch buffers :(
13:24	hiredman	https://github.com/hiredman/Repl
13:25	justinko	dnolen: fns?
13:25	dnolen	justinko: functions.
13:25	hiredman	http://www.thelastcitadel.com/images/Screenshot-Repl.png
13:25	dnolen	,(fn [])
13:25	clojurebot	#<sandbox$eval142$fn__143 sandbox$eval142$fn__143@92d6d2>
13:25	dnolen	justinko: every function generates a class.
13:25	halfprogrammer	gfrlog: ha ha ha. There is a w3m mode available in emacs for web surfing. use that :P
13:26	gfrlog	oh heavens
13:26	kryft	dnolen: Thanks.
13:26	justinko	dnolen: (def a "foo") <-- is there a unique identifier (or id) for this?
13:26	justinko	dnolen: for "a"
13:26	kryft	hiredman: Your repl attained perfection in January 2010?-)
13:27	hiredman	Yes
13:27	dnolen	justinko: if such a thing a did exist, what would it be useful for?
13:27	Cozey	ok, this is the answer to my question: http://maven.apache.org/guides/mini/guide-coping-with-sun-jars.html
13:27	hiredman	(fyi it spins up 23 threads at start)
13:27	chouser	justinko: like this? ## (var a)
13:27	sexpbot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve var: a in this context
13:28	chouser	bleh. #'user/a
13:28	gfrlog	,(let [a 10] (var a))
13:28	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve var: a in this context
13:28	gfrlog	what are function parameters?
13:28	chouser	locals
13:28	chouser	not vars
13:28	amalloy	gfrlog: not easily accessible
13:28	gfrlog	locals is the formal term?
13:29	chouser	well. formally they're variables in the mathematical sense
13:29	gfrlog	but if we're discussing what (let ...) does, we would talk about locals?
13:29	chouser	but locals highlights both that they're immutable and that they always have lexical scope
13:30	chouser	That's the term Rich suggested once, and I like it.
13:30	gfrlog	sounds good to me
13:30	kryft	chouser: I love the final version of JoC, by the way. It inspired me to resume my learning project which was temporarily shelved before Christmas.
13:30	justinko	in Ruby, you can call .object_id on any object, and it is guaranteed to be unique
13:30	chouser	kryft: excellent!
13:31	hiredman	justinko: ick
13:31	justinko	(I ordered JoC last night)
13:31	amalloy	justinko: that doesn't really exist
13:31	hiredman	doing things that rely on pointer identity is icky
13:31	kryft	chouser: Actually that's what inspired my repl question, as I was just about to try the interactive examples in chapter three. :) (Or, er four, or whatever it was. I've had too much work and too little sleep.)
13:32	amalloy	hiredman: meh. often that's true, but eg keywords are interned and that's useful
13:32	seancorfield	raek: sorry i missed you re: cyclic dependency last night
13:32	dnolen	justinko: but what do people use actually .object_id for?
13:32	justinko	I'm just playing around in the repl and just wanted to see how things relate to each other: (def a "foo") (def b a)
13:32	gfrlog	amalloy: that's a performance thing, not a functionality thing
13:33	amalloy	gfrlog: i could probably be convinced, but that was not my previous understanding
13:33	seancorfield	the cyclic dependency was compiling file A (a log4j appender) which depended on file B which depended on ... which imported c3p0 which relied on log4j which tried to load the appender in its initializer (while it was still being compiled)
13:33	gfrlog	justinko: oh man, now you're going to have to find out about vars
13:34	justinko	dnolen: If there is an array of "foo"'s, and I want to get a specific "foo", I can find it via its object_id
13:34	gfrlog	amalloy: what was your understanding? My assumption is they are interned for faster comparisons
13:34	amalloy	justinko: you can use ##(identical? 'a 'a) to test for that sort of thing
13:34	sexpbot	⟹ false
13:34	dnolen	justinko: but doesn't Ruby have an object identity equality operator?
13:34	gfrlog	,(let [x "foo"] [(identical? x x) (identical? x "foo")])
13:34	clojurebot	[true true]
13:35	amalloy	gfrlog: i guess maybe that's all it is
13:35	amalloy	i can't think of any other specific benefits
13:35	gfrlog	amalloy: although the results of that last call to clojurebot are making me question everything
13:35	justinko	yes, you don't really need to ever use object_id, I just use it to look at things "under the hood"
13:36	amalloy	gfrlog: java interns strings in some circumstances but not all
13:36	gfrlog	amalloy: compiler optimization?
13:36	gko	How to I change the value of clojure.java.javadoc/core-java-api in user.clj?
13:36	gfrlog	,(let [is-foo? #(= % "foo")] (is-foo? "foo"))
13:36	clojurebot	true
13:36	amalloy	&(let [x "foo" y (str "fo" "o")] (identical? x y))
13:36	sexpbot	⟹ false
13:36	dnolen	justinko: yeah there's nothing like that in Clojure, tho as you say, it's not really a useful feature.
13:36	gfrlog	ah hah
13:36	gfrlog	there it goes
13:36	chouser	sybols aren't interned the way keywords are, because they support metadata
13:37	chouser	but Java is free to intern strings
13:37	amalloy	gfrlog: iirc java interns any string that appears as a constant in a source file, basically
13:37	gfrlog	that is sensible
13:37	amalloy	strings you compute on the fly aren't interned
13:37	chouser	if anything, all this shows why you generally don't want to be using 'identical?'
13:38	justinko	,#(symbol "foo")
13:38	clojurebot	#<sandbox$eval154$fn__155 sandbox$eval154$fn__155@67e92a>
13:38	dnolen	chouser: except when you need to ;)
13:38	chouser	right-o
13:38	amalloy	justinko: just the , will do. or & if you want to talk to sexpbot; no #
13:39	amalloy	the ##(+ 1 2) notation is for evals embedded in conversation, and needs two #s
13:39	sexpbot	⟹ 3
13:40	justinko	,#(keyword "foo")
13:40	clojurebot	#<sandbox$eval158$fn__159 sandbox$eval158$fn__159@b11287>
13:40	justinko	that's guaranteed to be unique, right?
13:40	amalloy	uh
13:40	amalloy	as long as, again, you stop putting # in there
13:40	amalloy	#(...) is defining a new anonymous function and then throwing it away, so it will be different every time
13:40	justinko	amalloy: I meant to do that
13:41	gfrlog	Object#hashCode says it usually returns the object's address, if not overridden
13:41	justinko	ohhh okay
13:41	amalloy	,[#(keyword "foo"), #(keyword "foo)]
13:41	clojurebot	EOF while reading string
13:41	dnolen	justinko: but it's generally overidden in Clojure.
13:41	amalloy	,[#(keyword "foo"), #(keyword "foo")]
13:41	clojurebot	[#<sandbox$eval162$fn__163 sandbox$eval162$fn__163@157011e> #<sandbox$eval162$fn__165 sandbox$eval162$fn__165@ac8360>]
13:41	gfrlog	,(.hashCode (new Object))
13:41	clojurebot	3411100
13:41	amalloy	dnolen: you can get at it anyway though
13:42	amalloy	i think it's in System
13:42	hiredman	justinko: are you sure you just don't want to call gensym?
13:42	gfrlog	,(System.identityHashCode :foo)
13:42	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: System.identityHashCode
13:42	gfrlog	,(System/identityHashCode :foo)
13:42	clojurebot	25476649
13:42	amalloy	&(let [x "test"] [(hash x) (System/identityHashCode x)])
13:42	sexpbot	⟹ [3556498 2933385]
13:42	gfrlog	how do I browse my previous statements in ERC?
13:43	amalloy	M-p, M-n
13:43	gfrlog	like up-arrow in other clients
13:43	gfrlog	very good
13:43	gfrlog	thx
13:43	amalloy	gfrlog: that's another nice thing about emacs. i don't use erc, but M-p is used all over so i figured it'd be right
13:44	Scriptor	previous/next sentence
13:44	gfrlog	funny I can loop back to the beginning of the history with M-n
13:44	amalloy	Scriptor: except when it does something else :P
13:44	gfrlog	see stuff I said yesterday
13:45	Scriptor	ooh, that reminds me
13:45	Scriptor	is there a nice way to view all the clojars besides http://clojars.org/repo? Alternatively is there a clojure lib for scraping clojars?
13:45	technomancy	Scriptor: there's lein-search
13:45	clojurebot	Huh?
13:46	technomancy	it uses lucene rather than scraping in recent versions
13:46	technomancy	https://github.com/technomancy/lein-search/tree/lucene if you are not on the latest from git
13:46	technomancy	works with other mvn repos too
13:46	halfprogrammer	gfrlog: C-h m - This will list down all the possible key combinations for the current buffer
13:47	halfprogrammer	gfrlog: C-h k - Takes a input key combination and will tell you what it will do.
13:47	amalloy	halfprogrammer: untrue
13:47	Scriptor	technomancy: thanks!
13:47	amalloy	C-h m displays mode-specific bindings; C-h b displays all
13:48	halfprogrammer	I said for the current buffer. So whatever is applicable for the current modes :)
13:49	amalloy	halfprogrammer: that wouldn't list C-b, for example
13:49	amalloy	granted he might not want that
13:49	halfprogrammer	hmm
13:52	gfrlog	can I use VIM from emacs?
13:52	Scriptor	supposedly
13:52	arunkn	why would you want that?
13:52	gfrlog	then I would know how to use emacs
13:52	amalloy	gfrlog: (1) M-x shell, (2) vim, (3) cry
13:53	arunkn	gfrlog: (4) use emacs again
13:53	gfrlog	I use vim because an old mathematician/CS-prof told me to
13:53	justinko	dnolen: you're right, hash isn't guaranteed to be unique: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/909843/java-how-to-get-the-unique-id-of-an-object-which-overrides-hashcode
13:54	amalloy	srsly though even if you love vim that would make you cry. emacs/shell will mess up all the vim bindings
13:54	amalloy	&(hash "x")
13:54	sexpbot	⟹ 120
13:54	amalloy	&(hash 120)
13:54	sexpbot	⟹ 120
13:54	Scriptor	isn't there an emacs plugin for vim?
13:54	arunkn	I use vim when I am not using lisping.
13:54	arunkn	mostly
13:54	amalloy	Scriptor: viper
13:54	gfrlog	Object#hashCode isn't even guaranteed to be the address; docs just say it probably is
13:54	amalloy	oh, the other way around
13:54	kryft	Any vimpulse users here?
13:54	gfrlog	arunkn: it is possible to do both?
13:55	Scriptor	gfrlog: it's weird when you switch back
13:55	Scriptor	and you'll always be worse at one than the other, I think
13:55	halfprogammer	somewhat
13:55	gfrlog	Scriptor: it strikes me as being similar to trying to maintain qwerty and dvorak skills
13:55	gfrlog	or ruby and python :)
13:56	halfprogammer	sometimes i confuse the key bindings. but mostly I am okay with it
13:57	Scriptor	gfrlog: or xbox and ps3? :)
13:57	gfrlog	yes
13:57	gfrlog	or....pants and kilts?
13:57	halfprogammer	ha ha ha
13:57	Scriptor	but yea, I definitely still prefer vim for non-lispy stuff
13:57	Scriptor	(non-lispy coding)
13:58	gfrlog	Scriptor: what advantages does it have? I don't know of any, I'm just locked in
13:58	gfrlog	other than familiarity when shelling into an HPUX machine
13:58	amalloy	gfrlog: the main thing i hear cited is modal editing
13:59	aaelony	what is the most idiomatic way to "loop" over 2 or more collections in a nested fashion? Is something like (map #(myfn) %1) list) extensible to not only an i from 1 to n but also i & j, or even i & j & k ?
13:59	Scriptor	gfrlog: for emacs? The best sum-up I've heard is that emacs is a better dev environment, while vim is the better text editor (in terms of actually moving around making edits)
13:59	halfprogammer	gfrlog: you can edit things very fast. Has excellent plugin support. And as amalloy said, it has modal editing.
13:59	amalloy	aaelony: ##(doc for) is great
13:59	sexpbot	⟹ "Macro ([seq-exprs body-expr]); List comprehension. Takes a vector of one or more binding-form/collection-expr pairs, each followed by zero or more modifiers, and yields a lazy sequence of evaluations of expr. Collections are iterated in a nested fashion, rightmost ... http://gist.github.com/1031908
13:59	gfrlog	if I abandon vim I could quit binding my capslocks to escape
14:00	amalloy	gfrlog: and bind it to ctl instead
14:00	gfrlog	haha
14:00	halfprogammer	gfrlog: it is especially useful when you are doing a ssh over a 56kbps line where echoing back the key you pressed takes abt 1 sec
14:00	amalloy	&(for [x (range 4) y (range 4)] [x y]) ; aaelony
14:00	sexpbot	⟹ ([0 0] [0 1] [0 2] [0 3] [1 0] [1 1] [1 2] [1 3] [2 0] [2 1] [2 2] [2 3] [3 0] [3 1] [3 2] [3 3])
14:00	Scriptor	heh, one nice thing about windows-on-macbook is that my thumb is always on C
14:01	aaelony	excellent, thanks! I like avoiding loop & recur :)
14:01	amalloy	aaelony: for is extremely powerful. read the docstring to see its other cool features
14:02	halfprogammer	am not too familiar with common lisp myself. but why does clojure not have CL style loop?
14:02	aaelony	amalloy: thanks, re-reading the documentation. Often the docs are written in a way that takes me a while to truly understand what the docs are intending to describe.
14:02	technomancy	halfprogammer: mostly because working with sequences is just more pleasant
14:04	halfprogammer	Its funny when CL books (land of lisp and practical common lisp) dedicate one full chapter to describe what a loop construct can do
14:04	amalloy	halfprogammer: probably not enough chapters
14:04	hiredman	can cl's loop execute in parallel?
14:06	dnolen	halfprogammer: from what I understood CL's loop is there because TCO is not a requirement for CL. Clojure has lazy-sequences / recur.
14:06	halfprogammer	hiredman: no idea
14:06	hiredman	answer is: no because the cl spec doesn't deal with threads at all
14:07	hiredman	setting aside the imperative nature of cl's loop
14:07	amalloy	dnolen: that seems overly specific; i think it's there because it lets you express a lot of notions compactly, much like clojure's for
14:07	amalloy	my main gripe is its imperative nature, as well
14:08	dnolen	amalloy: why? loop does what map/filter/reduce does in Clojure in constant space.
14:08	hiredman	clojurebot: what can the hyperspec tell us about this problem?
14:08	clojurebot	hyperspec is not applicable
14:09	hiredman	clojurebot: please solve my problems using the knowledge contained in the hyperspec
14:09	clojurebot	hyperspec is not applicable
14:11	chouser	When suggesting new features for 'for' or 'doseq', rhickey has at times pointed to the size of the docs for CL's LOOP as sufficient reason for why we don't want it.
14:12	hiredman	mmmm
14:12	chouser	hm. that was pithy and succinct in my head. oh well.
14:12	halfprogammer	hmm
14:13	amalloy	chouser: pithy, succint, concise, and terse?
14:13	chouser	amalloy: and also short
14:19	jweiss_	in a construct like (take-while #(not (zip/end? %)) (iterate f root)), where f does stuff with the tree and returns zip/next, the seq stops one too soon. it doesn't process the last node. anyone know how to fix that?
14:20	hiredman	have f return [node (zip/next node)]
14:22	gfrlog	amalloy: how'd you get your nick back?
14:22	amalloy	gfrlog: went around znc and logged into freenode directly
14:22	amalloy	when Raynes wakes up or whatever, i'll make him explain irc to me again
14:24	amalloy-`	amalloy: maybe you could have used juxt?
14:24	gfrlog	so sorry
14:24	arohner	chouser: did your lazy-xml improvements get published anywhere?
14:25	halfprogammer	gfrlog: http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/irctutorial.html
14:25	amalloy	i hope there's an etiquette section in there :P
14:26	gfrlog	halfprogammer: earlier amalloy was on the alternate nick "amalloy-" and for some reason I was able to switch to "amalloy" but he wasn't
14:26	Scriptor	gfrlog: it didn't ask you to auth with nickserv?
14:26	gfrlog	Scriptor: not that I noticed, which I thought was weird. But I'm on ERC so it's possible I didn't see it
14:27	Scriptor	the promp will show up in the mini-buffer thing at the bottom
14:29	chouser	arohner: they're wip in clojure.data.cml
14:29	chouser	clojure.data.xml
14:29	halfprogammer	gfrlog: http://www.magic-league.com/play/register_nick.php
14:29	halfprogammer	gfrlog: ^ how to register your nick
14:29	gfrlog	halfprogammer: yeah, both amalloy and I have done that
14:29	amalloy	halfprogammer: i get the feeling you're providing helpful advice to people who aren't here
14:30	gfrlog	amalloy: ?
14:30	amalloy	gfrlog: in the sense that this would be cool stuff to know but isn't really relevant to the issues you and i were having
14:30	gfrlog	gotcha
14:31	arohner	chouser: thanks
14:31	halfprogammer	amalloy: I thought you have not registred your nick and gfrlog was able to use your nick. My bad.
14:31	amalloy	halfprogammer: my nick is registered
14:31	amalloy	which is why i don't understand that gfrlog could use it
14:31	amalloy	and i couldn't :P
14:32	gfrlog	halfprogammer: the weird parts are 1) he IS registered and 2) he couldn't switch to it himself
14:32	Scriptor	I think gfrlog just missed the nickserv password prompt, it's not very obvious
14:32	gfrlog	anybody know any registered nicks I could try?
14:32	Scriptor	you can switch to a registered nick but only temporarily, I think
14:32	amalloy	Scriptor: if you can "miss" the password prompt it's not really securing anything, is it?
14:32	amalloy	i see
14:32	halfprogammer	try mine
14:33	gfrlog	halfprogammer: somebody not in the room I mean
14:33	gfrlog	erc automatically appends a punctuation apparently
14:33	halfprogammer	hmm
14:33	Scriptor	gfrlog: try Scriptonomicon
14:33	Scriptor	alt nick of mine
14:33	Scriptor	I think
14:33	Scriptonomicon	hmm
14:33	halfprogammer	hey, try rhickey :P
14:33	Scriptonomicon	I think something happened
14:34	Scriptor	alright, now is there a prompt at the very bottom?
14:34	Scriptonomicon	nothing obvious
14:34	Scriptonomicon	lemme check the buffer list
14:34	Scriptor	hmm, maybe I forgot to group it
14:34	Scriptonomicon	or just wait a minute and see if it kicks me out :)
14:34	Scriptonomicon	C-x o doesn't switch to anything...
14:34	no_mind	I have a map expresion which calls a function f returning map. The result of map expression is a sequence of maps as required. The problem is, for certain conditions, the function f called by map returns a sequence of maps instead of map. How do I ensure that the maps in the sequence of maps returned by f are merged with other maps ?
14:34	Scriptor	Scriptonomicon: that switches windows
14:34	Scriptor	try C-x b
14:35	jcromartie	How do I make "binding" play well with parallelized routines
14:35	Scriptonomicon	not seeing anything
14:35	gfrlog`	dangit
14:35	amalloy	no_mind: make it always return a sequance of maps, sometimes only one item long
14:35	jcromartie	hypothetically: I have a web app, and I want to render parts of it in parallel, and I use (binding [user current-user] (pmap render parts))
14:36	Scriptor	gfrlog`: you do see a horizontal blank space right below your buffer, right?
14:36	amalloy	"sequance". incredible
14:36	jcromartie	instead of passing all of the interesting "global" (really per-request) special variables in to each function that might be interested in them
14:36	jweiss_	hiredman, sorry, your earlier suggestion you meant (take-while (fn [[i j]] (not= i j)) (iterate f root))
14:36	gfrlog`	Scriptor: yes
14:36	no_mind	amalloy: ok
14:36	Scriptor	and nothing showed up in there?
14:36	gfrlog`	no
14:36	amalloy	&(doc bound-fn) is often helpful for that, jcromartie
14:36	sexpbot	⟹ "Macro ([& fntail]); Returns a function defined by the given fntail, which will install the same bindings in effect as in the thread at the time bound-fn was called. This may be used to define a helper function which runs on a different thread, but needs the same bindings in place."
14:37	Scriptor	weird
14:37	jcromartie	awesome, amalloy
14:37	gfrlog`	there's a "[i]" thing in the buffer status bar that I think highlighted when I first switched to Scriptonomicon
14:37	jcromartie	also http://cemerick.com/2009/11/03/be-mindful-of-clojures-binding/
14:37	Scriptor	gfrlog`: right click it and it'll switch you to that
14:37	gfrlog`	amalloy: that is a terribly interesting function
14:37	gfrlog`	Scriptor: I'm using emacs over SSH, not sure right-clicking will be effective
14:37	halfprogammer	halfasleep. bfn
14:37	gfrlog`	didn't do anything
14:38	Scriptor	ah
14:42	gfrlog	so I guess it's probably my fault with ERC. still doesn't explain why amalloy couldn't switch though
14:42	amalloy	gfrlog: i assume that's an issue with my znc config somehow
14:47	arohner	chouser: I'm still seeing memory usage go up when doing (dorun (pull-parser/lazy-source-seq))
14:52	amalloy	arohner: of course memory usage will go up. it's using memory. but it will be memory that's eligible for garbage collection, in theory
14:57	zerokarmaleft	https://gist.github.com/1032035 <= is this a result of floating point error or what?
14:57	opqdonut	no
14:58	opqdonut	the latter predicate is false for 2.725
14:58	opqdonut	so no numbers are taken
14:58	opqdonut	you might've been looking for filter
14:58	zerokarmaleft	oh derp
14:58	opqdonut	or (take-while #(<= % upper) (drop-while #(< lower %) measurements))
14:59	chouser	arohner: I've got unit tests in there that are meant to demonstrate that xml events and nodes are not being help unnecessarily.
15:00	chouser	arohner: if you can find or write a test like that which fails, that would be a huge help.
15:01	chouser	arohner: I haven't gotten around to testing large inputs yet, but in the small it seems to be working in several cases where it used to hold onto too much.
15:04	zakwilson	Is there a way to get ClojureQL to use fully qualified column names all the time? I want to be able to joins on tables that have columns of the same names and get back maps that aren't too hard to use in updates.
15:28	mattmitchell	how do i test if a variable is bound or unbound?
15:28	amalloy	&(doc bound?)
15:28	sexpbot	⟹ "([& vars]); Returns true if all of the vars provided as arguments have any bound value, root or thread-local. Implies that deref'ing the provided vars will succeed. Returns true if no vars are provided."
15:29	chouser	huh. seems weird that's variatic
15:29	amalloy	mattmitchell: just too simple sometimes, eh?
15:29	amalloy	chouser: you'd prefer [vars], or [var]?
15:31	mattmitchell	amalloy: :) well I tried that, but seeing the docs there, I noticed that it takes a var, so I had to do (bound? (var my-un-bound-var))
15:31	amalloy	indeed, or #'my-var
15:31	mattmitchell	amalloy: ahh ok coo
15:32	mattmitchell	cool that is
15:32	hiredman	only one usage in src/clj with a single arg
15:35	hiredman	clojurebot: unix vm is http://www.cs.gmu.edu/cne/itcore/virtualmachine/unix.htm
15:35	clojurebot	You don't have to tell me twice.
15:36	gfrlog	hiredman: does clojurebot keep old bindings?
15:36	hiredman	old bindings?
15:37	gfrlog	you just gave it a definition right?
15:37	gfrlog	bound "unix vm" to that url?
15:38	hiredman	yes, clojurebot stores them in a derby db on disk
15:38	gfrlog	and they can be overwritten?
15:38	hiredman	they can be deleted and added to
15:38	gfrlog	hmm
15:38	hiredman	(it is effectively a multi-map)
15:39	gfrlog	ah, so it gives a random value?
15:39	gfrlog	~unix vm
15:39	clojurebot	unix vm is http://www.cs.gmu.edu/cne/itcore/virtualmachine/unix.htm
15:39	hiredman	yes
15:39	gfrlog	okay. then my question is less important.
15:39	gfrlog	I thought it would be worrying that good information gets overwritten
15:39	hiredman	and you and specify other relations besides 'is'
15:40	hiredman	clojurebot: two things \|are\| more than one thing
15:40	clojurebot	You don't have to tell me twice.
15:40	gfrlog	clojurebot: unix vm isn't http://www.yahoo.com
15:40	clojurebot	it's a UNIX system! I know this!
15:40	hiredman	clojurebot: two things?
15:40	clojurebot	two things are more than one thing
15:40	gfrlog	~two things
15:40	clojurebot	two things are more than one thing
15:40	hiredman	for relationships besides 'is' you use the pipe syntax
15:40	gfrlog	so just for grammar?
15:41	hiredman	for now
15:41	gfrlog	cool
15:42	Evious	Are there any good guides/tutorials/references about functional programming in Clojure? Specifically, the macros/conventions/tricks developed for said purpose?
15:42	hiredman	clojurebot's data layer is kind of disgusting
15:42	gfrlog	:)
15:43	Scriptor	wait, clojurebot can be trained?
15:43	gfrlog	clojurebot: Scriptor \|doesn't\| know you can be trained
15:43	clojurebot	You don't have to tell me twice.
15:43	gfrlog	clojurebot: Scriptor?
15:43	clojurebot	Scriptor doesn't know you can be trained
15:44	gfrlog	aw dang
15:44	Scriptor	gfrlog: sit
15:44	Scriptor	I guess you might need to indicate what 'you' is referring to
15:45	gfrlog	it's got a bit of templating I think...at least for nicks
16:00	cemerick	hiredman: derby? How quaint. :-)
16:01	cemerick	I remember killing myself trying to get cloudscape working back in the day.
16:10	mattmitchell	I need to write a test, that proves that a clojure fn calls a method on a java object. How can I do this?
16:11	opqdonut	produce a mock object that logs calls and then delegates them to the real object
16:11	opqdonut	and inject it
16:12	tsdh	Are java enum constants not constant things I can use with `case'?
16:12	mattmitchell	opqdonut: how can i create a java mock in clojure?
16:12	opqdonut	use, e.g., reify
16:12	hiredman	tsdh: java enums are, if I recall, ints
16:13	hiredman	but there are a couple of different ways to use them together with case
16:13	tsdh	hiredman: No, they are basically singleton objects I think.
16:13	hiredman	tsdh: incorrect
16:14	tsdh	hiredman: Really, I mean you can have enums with constructors and methods...
16:14	hiredman	sure, but each "constant" is infact an int
16:15	tsdh	hiredman: Hm, but then, why does my (case Foo/BAR 1 Foo/Baz 2 (throw (RuntimeException))) always throw?
16:17	amalloy	hiredman: those statements stopped being true in java 1.5, or else you're being misunderstood
16:18	hiredman	amalloy: no kidding
16:18	amalloy	java has enums, which are basically classes with N "singleton" instances, one for each enum constant
16:18	tsdh	From the JLS: An enum constant defines an instance of the enum type.
16:19	hiredman	well, then, carry on
16:19	amalloy	they're kinda a pain to use from clojure though, i believe
16:19	tsdh	Ok, so that means I cannot use enum constants in case, right?
16:19	amalloy	tsdh: there's an open ticket on jira somewhere discussing that
16:21	cemerick	Enum support will probably never land in case
16:21	cemerick	tsdh: you can get around it to some extent by doing something like: http://cemerick.com/2010/08/03/enhancing-clojures-case-to-evaluate-dispatch-values/
16:22	amalloy	cemerick: when is the SoC survey closing? i need to see the results!
16:22	cemerick	amalloy: Monday
16:22	cemerick	Got to give the weekend tinkerers time to get in
16:22	tsdh	cemerick: Oh, great! I'll use that.
16:23	gfrlog	ls
16:23	gfrlog	whoops
16:23	gfrlog	well that could have been worse
16:23	cemerick	tsdh: Heed the note at the top of that post. :-)
16:23	amalloy	[sudo] Password for gfrlog:
16:23	gfrlog	iamrhickey123
16:23	Bronsa	llol
16:23	mattmitchell	hmm, so I have an instance of a java object. Using reify, I'm not sure if that will allow me to mock a method on that object?
16:23	gfrlog	aw dang
16:24	amalloy	mattmitchell: reify only supports interfaces
16:24	mattmitchell	amalloy: ahh ok. Is there a way to mock a java class instance?
16:24	cemerick	tsdh: it works fine for me for enums, but if you AOT code that uses case+ and attempt to run it with a different version of an enum class on the classpath, bad things may happen
16:24	tsdh	cemerick: My enums come from an external java library that is in a jar. So no AOT here.
16:24	amalloy	your path of least resistance is probably to proxy the class, but someone else probably knows a "better" way
16:24	mattmitchell	amalloy: rather, a method on a java object?
16:25	cemerick	tsdh: AOT of your Clojure code; has nothing to do with the Java library
16:25	raek	mattmitchell: if the code you need to test accesses the object though an interface, it's very easy to make a mock object that implements the same interface
16:25	amalloy	&(.size (proxy [java.util.ArrayList] [] (size [] 10)))
16:25	sexpbot	java.lang.IllegalStateException: Var null/null is unbound.
16:25	cemerick	So, if you AOT your Clojure with v1 of the java lib, but then run the AOT'd classfiles with v1.1 of the java lib, things may break
16:25	amalloy	,(.size (proxy [java.util.ArrayList] [] (size [] 10)))
16:25	clojurebot	java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.IllegalStateException: Var null/null is unbound.
16:25	tsdh	cemerick: I only compile one different namespace containing only gen-classes for some custom exceptions. That's ok, isn't it?
16:26	amalloy	hrm. anyyway mattmitchell, that's kinda-vaguely how you might mock out a method
16:26	opqdonut	mattmitchell: unfortunately there's no easy way if the method is not in an interface
16:27	cemerick	tsdh: Sounds like it — just make sure the code that's using case+ isn't being transitively included in the AOT.
16:27	mattmitchell	ok yeah, this is just a class with no interface
16:27	mattmitchell	http://lucene.apache.org/solr/api/org/apache/solr/core/CoreContainer.html
16:27	opqdonut	but being able to unit-test things like that means that you need to structure your code in a specific way
16:27	tsdh	cemerick: I added a notice so that I'll never forget.
16:27	cemerick	heh
16:29	fliebel	cemerick: Do you have any fancy visualization plans for the survey?
16:30	cemerick	fliebel: Nothing beyond what I did for the first one.
16:30	cemerick	Unless someone has other grand ideas.
16:31	cemerick	I remember seeing something equivalent to a mod_ring floating around a few months ago. Anyone have a link handy?
16:34	tsdh	cemerick: I get a compile error with your case+ (http://pastebin.com/CMzVs8G5)
16:34	Scriptor	tsdh: getting an unknown paste id on that
16:35	fliebel	cemerick: Really? Awesome! I need to compare that to ring-fastcgi.
16:35	tsdh	Scriptor: I don't. Maybe your IRC client copies the trailing ) ?
16:35	tsdh	http://pastebin.com/CMzVs8G5
16:35	justinko	multi-methods are blowing my mind
16:36	cemerick	tsdh: funky; what if you pull (EdgeDirection/INOUT nil) out into two clauses?
16:36	cemerick	tsdh: which version of Clojure?
16:36	tsdh	cemerick: Tried that, same error. I use 1.3 from git.
16:36	tsdh	cemerick: State as of yesterday.
16:37	Scriptor	tsdh: oh, yes it does
16:37	Scriptor	damnit ERC
16:37	Scriptor	and damnit eyes for checking for that and still not seeing it earlier
16:37	tsdh	Scriptor: I use rcirc which DTRT.
16:37	cemerick	tsdh: hrm, I suspect the macro doesn't work under 1.3 — I've never seen an error like that before.
16:37	fliebel	cemerick: This was my answer to the all-in-one server: http://pepijndevos.nl/the-perfect-server/
16:38	Scriptor	cemerick: I found a link about using a WAR file and using apache as a proxy to tomcat, assuming that's probably not it though?
16:38	cemerick	fliebel: yours is what I was thinking of :-)
16:38	cemerick	Scriptor: ^^
16:39	fliebel	cemerick: Oh, I thought you had something in the other half of the venn.
16:40	amalloy	justinko: i find myself wanting to replace every if/cond with a multimethod. kinda overdoing it though
16:40	Scriptor	ah, ring_fastcgi
16:42	gfrlog	fliebel: clever email obfuscation
16:42	fliebel	gfrlog: You mean the rot13? :) I had one in Clojure as well...
16:43	gfrlog	fliebel: I like it because to a bot it still looks like a plain email
16:43	fliebel	gfrlog: Yea, I figured I should write a DSL that can be expressed in valid email addresses.
16:44	gfrlog	unless it checks tlds...I've never heard of .pbz
16:45	fliebel	gfrlog: Would be fun to set up that as an email and see how much spam it gets :)
16:46	gfrlog	pbz is the cTLD of the country Peanut Butterz
16:47	tsdh	cemerick: Really strange. The expansion looks correct to me. http://pastebin.com/THwz4N2S
16:48	tsdh	cemerick: But haveing the code in front of me, I can at least understand the error message.
16:49	amalloy	tsdh: you can't put objects in code :P
16:49	amalloy	ie, the expansion does NOT look good, because you would never type #<EdgeDirection INOUT> in code yourself
16:50	tsdh	amalloy: Exactly
16:50	tsdh	and the solution is also provided in the error message...
16:50	fliebel	gfrlog: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.bz
16:50	gfrlog	,(read-string "#<Foo BAR>")
16:50	clojurebot	java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.Exception: Unreadable form
16:50	amalloy	yes, although i don't know that defining a print-dup resolves the issue?
16:51	gfrlog	ah ccTLD is the term
16:52	amalloy	tsdh: fwiw, (fn [i] (normal-edge? i)) is just normal-edge?, and the next is just (complement normal-edge?)
16:52	tsdh	amalloy: indeed.
16:52	cemerick	tsdh: The more sane thing would be to, when it's clear that clauses are known to be enums, code is emitted to match on corresponding enums, and not the enum values themselves.
16:52	amalloy	gfrlog: does what?
16:53	gfrlog	amalloy: lets you refactor your code purely by deleting things
16:53	cemerick	I think that's how ataggart was making enums work in his early 1.3 case patches, anyway.
16:53	gfrlog	probably only the first of the two is an example of that
16:54	mattmitchell	is there a way to alias a var so that it points to another var in a diff namespace?
16:54	tsdh	cemerick: First I've thought wrapping a (binding [print-dup true] ...) around the case would help, but that's not true. What's a "corresponding enum"?
16:56	tsdh	Ah, I need to add a (defmethod print-dup ...)
16:56	cemerick	tsdh: case+ would determine that the dispatch values evaluate to enums, and emit a case form that used symbols for those enums instead of the enums themselves. So an enum Foo/Bar would turn into 'some.package.Foo/Bar.
16:57	cemerick	tsdh: I think the print-dup hint is a red herring rabbit hole in this case. :-)
16:57	tsdh	:-)
16:58	cemerick	tsdh: I have that blog post in my browser-tab-backlog; might take a whack at revising the code therein to be 1.3-friendly next week-ish.
16:58	tsdh	I'll check your blog.
16:59	mattmitchell	Hmm, I have a main ns. I want require other ns's and alias to a short name within the main ns. The problem is, my other ns's need a var in the main set in order to function. If I require the other ns's in the main ns, then "use" the main ns in the others, I get "java.lang.Exception: Cyclic load dependency"
16:59	cemerick	tsdh: what, you don't subscribe already?
16:59	mattmitchell	^ I know that sounds confusing
16:59	cemerick	;-)
17:03	gfrlog	ah good now I'm not the only one doing that
17:04	gfrlog	speaking of TLDs, the internets say ICANN will approve commercial TLDs
17:06	hiredman	clojurebot: destructuring
17:06	clojurebot	destructuring is http://clojure.org/special_forms#let
17:09	gfrlog	amalloy: figure it out yet?
17:09	amalloy	gfrlog: yes
20:00	cwmaguire	Is there a function to run multiple functions with a parameter? e.g. (for [f [+ - *]] (f 1))
20:02	mids	cwmaguire: juxt? http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/juxt
20:03	cwmaguire	of course!
20:03	cwmaguire	thanks
20:03	cwmaguire	I'm rusty
20:05	mids	,((juxt + - /) 4 3)
20:05	clojurebot	[7 1 4/3]
20:11	__name__	Everyone loves juxt.
20:17	amalloy	__name__: and if you don't, we'll (juxt draw quarter) you
21:08	davekong	I clojure-contrib.jar to my classpath but am having trouble loading the namespace at the REPL, what should I be typing to add e.g. the seq namespace or say all of them
21:10	amalloy	davekong: you can't require them all at once; you need to specify each namespace you want, not each library (whereas in project.clj you specify at a library level)
21:11	amalloy	so eg (use 'clojure.contrib.seq) (separate even? (range 10))
21:16	davekong	amalloy: thanks