#clojure – 2011-06-03

2011-06-03

00:02	jean-philippe	you can check for common elements between 2 sets with their intersection (using clojure.set.intersection). If the intersection is not empty, the 2 sets have elements in common
00:06	bdesham	jean-philippe: the problem is that I've got a vector and I want to see if any elements are duplicated in the vector, including in sets within the vector
00:09	jean-philippe	bdesham: the quick trick would be to see if the sum of the counts of the individual sets is equal to the count of the union of all the sets
00:09	bdesham	,(count #{})
00:09	clojurebot	0
00:10	bdesham	,(count #{#{}})
00:10	clojurebot	1
00:10	bdesham	jean-philippe: I might be able to make that work
00:11	jean-philippe	bdesham: this should flatten deeply nested sets as long as there are no duplicate elements: https://gist.github.com/1005858
00:13	jean-philippe	bdesham: it's quite rough, and you need to (use 'clojure.set) to get union and intersection, but it should give you a starting point
00:15	bdesham	jean-philippe: thanks!
00:18	rcfox	Hey guys, I have a rather newbie question. I'm trying to extend a Java class, and the .class is in the 'classes' directory, which is in my classpath. However, when I try to compile my new class, I get java.lang.ClassNotFoundException.
00:20	rcfox	Is there anything I might be missing? Both classes are in the default namespace, if that makes a difference.
00:23	rcfox	Doh, I just realized that the classes should go under classes/java/lang.
04:39	newbnumber1	hi there, I'm new to clojure, and I've been looking around for a guide to getting started with clojure web programming. It's a bit confusing. Most links seem to point to compojure, but it seems to be a fast-moving target. Is there a de-facto "this is the starting point for newbs" concerning clojure web development?
04:44	Vinzent	newbnumber1, checkout wiki on the github page of compojure
04:45	thorwil	newbnumber1: there's no de-facto starting point. common choices are compojure or moustache, enlive and/or hiccup
04:47	gko	Regarding SLIME with CL and Clojure: is it still either or? (CVS for CL, ELPA for Clojure
04:47	gko	)
04:49	apsvx	newbnumber1: i think this: http://brehaut.net/blog/2011/ring_introduction is very good introduction
04:54	ordnungswidrig	How can I determine which protocols an instance extends? "extenders" goes the other way round.
04:55	fcek	newbnumber1: i started with http://mmcgrana.github.com/2010/07/develop-deploy-clojure-web-applications.html
04:55	fcek	but apsvx link looks good
05:08	raek	newbnumber1: I would recommend the official readme for Ring - the underlying library of most clojure web apps - and its spec: https://github.com/mmcgrana/ring and https://github.com/mmcgrana/ring/blob/master/SPEC
05:15	raek	on top of Ring, you use a routing library (Compojure or Moustache) to choose among handlers based on URL and HTTP method and HTML generating libraries (Hiccup or Enlive) to generate the bodies of the responses
05:16	raek	be aware that Compojure has changed quite a lot, so if you look at an example, make sure you check which version it is for
05:18	newbnumber1	reading through these links now, thanks guys :) yes, some tutorials I've seen confused me greatly, but it was compojure that had changed
05:19	raek	newbnumber1: the compojure wiki is probably the most up to date tutorial: https://github.com/weavejester/compojure/wiki
07:07	bendlas	hey
07:08	bendlas	does anybody use eshell with zsh here?
07:23	LeNsTR	bendlas: use 'M-x ansi-term' instead esheel
07:23	LeNsTR	works with zsh pretty well
07:54	bendlas	LeNsTR: thanks
07:54	LeNsTR	^^
07:55	bendlas	I know, but I like the feel of eshell a bit better
07:56	bendlas	zsh works pretty fine with it too, except it doesn't read my .zshrc
08:18	mec	Is it possible to memoize a local recursive function?
08:18	fliebel	mec: local?
08:18	mec	inside a let
08:19	fliebel	mec: I see no reason you can't do (let [f (memoize (fn [])))?
08:21	ilyak	https://github.com/alamar/clojure-xml-stream Here is my "stateless" stream XML parser
08:21	ilyak	to declaratively parse huge XML files (larger than memory) into a lazy sequence of entities
08:22	mec	fliebel: something like (let [f (memoize (fn f [] (f ...)))), it wont memoize the inner calls
08:27	opqdonut	(fn f [] ...) ?
08:27	opqdonut	(let [f (memoize (fn [arg] (foo (f ...))))) will actually work
08:27	opqdonut	using recur inside the fn won't
08:27	opqdonut	(s/work/memoize/g)
08:29	mec	,(let [fib (memoize (fn [n] (if (<= n 1) n (+ (fib (dec n)) (fib (- n 2))))))] (fib 10))
08:29	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: fib in this context
08:29	mec	opqdonut: doesnt allow that
08:30	mec	and this way isnt actually memoized: #(let [fib (memoize (fn fib [n] (if (<= n 1) n (+ (fib (dec n)) (fib (- n 2))))))] (fib 20))
08:32	fliebel	mec: I see no reason you can do##(let [fib (memoize (fn [n] (if (<= n 1) n (+ (#'fib (dec n)) (#'fib (- n 2))))))] (fib 10))
08:32	sexpbot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve var: fib in this context
08:33	fliebel	... need a break
08:33	opqdonut	mec: hmm, letfn should work, right?
08:34	opqdonut	(my bad)
08:34	fliebel	opqdonut: But then you can;t memoize
08:34	opqdonut	ah, right
08:34	opqdonut	gah
08:34	Dranik	hi all
08:34	mec	I'm not sure this is possible
08:34	mec	maybe i'll have to memoize by hand
08:34	fliebel	mec: wait, I have an idea!
08:36	Dranik	I have a macro defaction (https://gist.github.com/1006270). It expands to a runnable code -- but only if I run that expanded code manually. When I try it running using this macro -- it fails
08:36	Dranik	can anyone have a look at it?
08:37	Dranik	(macroexpand-1 '(defaction myaction [id post] (println "abc"))) expands to
08:37	Dranik	(clojure.core/defn myaction [{session :session, {post :post, id :id} :params}] (println "abc"))
08:37	Dranik	which is runnable if u jast paste it and run
08:37	fliebel	&(let [fib (fn [f n] (if (<= n 1) n (+ (f f (dec n)) (f f (- n 2)))))] (fib (memoize fib) 10))
08:37	sexpbot	⟹ 55
08:37	Dranik	but calling (clojure.core/defn myaction [{session :session, {post :post, id :id} :params}] (println "abc")) doesn't work
08:38	fliebel	Dranik: Error message?
08:39	mec	fliebel: ah nice
08:39	fliebel	mec: No, but-ugly, but it works :)
08:39	mec	smells like Y combinator
08:39	Dranik	fliebel: Unable to resolve symbol: :post in this context
08:40	Dranik	which is really weird bcs :post is just a keyword
08:40	chouser	heh
08:40	fliebel	mec: Y combinator? I suck at understanding, or wikipedia sucks at explaining.
08:40	chouser	Dranik: ues (keyword p) instead of (symbol ":" p)
08:41	chouser	we need to do something about that
08:41	chouser	a keyword is not the same as a symbol that starts with :
08:41	fliebel	chouser: About what? Ruby guys who confuse keyword and symbol?
08:41	Dranik	chouser: thanks, that was helpful
08:43	chouser	fliebel: no, about keywords and symbols that when printed and then read end up different than when they started
08:43	chouser	perhaps (symbol ":foo") should print as \|:foo\|, for example.
08:44	fliebel	chouser: Maybe invalid and unreadable symbols should throw an error?
08:44	chouser	right, another fine option.
08:44	fliebel	&(symbol "(")
08:44	sexpbot	⟹ (
08:45	chouser	JavaScript doesn't have problems distinguishing between keywords and symbols.
08:46	fliebel	chouser: Does it even distinguish between anything?
08:46	chouser	nope! :-D
08:50	chouser	1 + "2" == "12" // just what I wanted!
08:53	cemerick	my favorite is:
08:53	Chousuke	It's most fun is when you do something silly like window["foo"] = 5; foo + 5 :P
08:53	cemerick	var a = {}; a[{c:5}] = 10; a[{d:6}] == 10 // whee!
08:54	fliebel	cemerick: How does that work?
08:55	cemerick	fliebel: javascript objects look up values based on the .toString() value of the key provided. Objects' .toString defaults to "[object Object]", so they all hash to the same entry.
08:56	cemerick	IIRC
08:56	bhenry	i need the best way to pad a single digit number with a 0. begins as int ends as string.
08:56	bhenry	i.e. 9 => 09 but 10 => 10
08:57	cemerick	,(format "%02d" 9) ;<< bhenry
08:57	clojurebot	"09"
08:58	fliebel	&(format "%02d" 100)
08:58	sexpbot	⟹ "100"
08:58	bhenry	cemerick: thank you
08:58	bhenry	perfect
09:09	mec	fliebel: think theres any good way to abstract out this method of memoization?
09:11	Vinzent	I have a problem with vision (https://github.com/nakkaya/vision). When calling query-frame (e.g. (query-frame (capture-from-cap 0))), java process "exited abnormally with code 134". Any ideas how to overcome it?
09:27	ordnungswidrig	I try to extend a procotol at runtime. However reify is a macro, any ideas besides "eval"?
09:28	clgv	mec: just skip using that anonymous function and use defn since fib has enough logic to be standalone
09:28	Vinzent	ordnungswidrig, you can use extend to extend the protocol
09:29	ordnungswidrig	Vinzent: correct. I want to reify an existing instance not a type.
09:35	stuartsierra	You can't add or change methods of an instance on the JVM.
09:37	ordnungswidrig	stuartsierra: I'm fine with a new instance that implement another protocol "on top", say like (reify instance-of-A B (method-in-b [arg] )) which will return an instance that implements A and B
09:38	stuartsierra	Like a wrapper.
09:40	ordnungswidrig	exactly, in the end I want to build a delegate which takes list of delegates implementing an number of protocols. the wrapper shall then implement all of the procotols and delegate the method invokations to all delegates which implement the invoked method. the results shall be collected into a seq. i.e. the wrapper shall "map" the invokation over the handlers
09:46	ordnungswidrig	hmm, extending an instance at runtime is hard. however, at the time when I want to extend the instance I know all method implementations. So I can relax to problem to "given a list of instances,build a instancen implementing all protocols implemented by all instances where the invokation of any method m defined in any protocol is (fn [_ & args] (map #(apply m % args) instances))
09:47	ordnungswidrig	So I can reduce that to applying reify at runtime...
10:46	clgv	I have a map of maps that might refer to each other via keys and I want to update the map by replacing the keys with the reference to the map belonging to the key. in general this means building a directed acyclic graph
10:48	clgv	the only way to accomplish this goal seems to be to perform a topological sorting with respect to the referencing relation
10:56	gfrlog	could you do duck-typing in a static language by having every object implicitely implement an interface for each method it defines, and allow function arguments to specify a list of interfaces, one for each method it plans to call?
10:57	TimMc	gfrlog: ew
10:57	gfrlog	TimMc: whyso?
10:57	gfrlog	TimMc: I'm assuming all this happens under the covers
10:58	TimMc	gfrlog: What's to say that Foo.grovel() and Bar.grovel() are semantically interchangeable?
10:59	gfrlog	TimMc: nothing, that's the downside to duck-typing generally. I'm trying to get some static-checking out of it, so at least you know that your object can grovel
11:02	stuartsierra	Doesn't Java allow something like that? e.g. public foo(List<? implements Bar> bars)
11:03	gfrlog	stuartsierra: I'm not following :/ you have an argument bars of type List?
11:04	stuartsierra	nevermind
11:05	gfrlog	okay.
11:07	stuartsierra	"Structural" type systems, where the type of a thing is defined by its capabilities, are sort of like that.
11:07	stuartsierra	As opposed to "Nominal" type systems like in Java.
11:08	gfrlog	Ah hah -- something to google. Just what I wanted. @unironic
11:16	bendlas	technomancy: is it possible, that slamhound chokes on clojure.contrib.core/-?>
11:16	bendlas	specifically on the \?
11:33	technomancy	bendlas: totally possible; maybe open an issue?
11:40	bendlas	technomancy: can do that
11:49	bendlas	technomancy: https://github.com/technomancy/slamhound/issues/8
11:49	technomancy	thanks
11:50	technomancy	shame; I just cut a release yestorday
11:50	bendlas	on another note: is it intended, that when i do `lein plugin install marginalia 0.5.1` e.g. from my home dir
11:50	bendlas	that it installs its deps in ~/lib/dev/*.jar
11:51	technomancy	hmm; no that's also a bug; could you report another issue?
11:51	bendlas	k
11:57	chewbranca	technomancy: hey man, sorry I didn't make it back last night, got caught up on some stuff and didn't have time to drive back down south
11:58	offby1	we ate your brownie.
11:58	chewbranca	I missed out on brownies? doh..
11:58	bendlas	https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/issues/209
12:04	technomancy	chewbranca: ah no worries
12:05	chewbranca	technomancy: yeah was bad timing, had that meeting scheduled for weds originally but had to reschedule due to my car being in the shop on weds :/
12:05	chewbranca	technomancy: did I miss anything interesting?
12:06	technomancy	chewbranca: it was pretty low-key, but we had a cool demo of hiredman's pattern matching lib
12:06	TimMc	technomancy: What part of the country are you in?
12:07	chewbranca	technomancy: ahhh interesting
12:07	technomancy	TimMc: seattle
12:07	TimMc	Ah, OK.
12:07	TimMc	Oh right, seajure.
12:10	offby1	ah, "hiredman". I meant to ask what his real name was :)
12:33	timvisher	hey all
12:33	seancorfield__	mornin'
12:34	technomancy	offby1: is this your friend you mentioned? https://github.com/paxan
12:34	technomancy	~guards
12:34	clojurebot	SEIZE HIM!
12:34	timvisher	i'm trying to figure out how to use destructuring to get at the keys of a map inside a map, i.e. {:foo {:bar "bar" :biz "biz"}}
12:34	dnolen	seancorfield__: cool, what's he talking about?
12:34	seancorfield__	dnolen: all flavors of parallelism, from hardware to explicit concurrent ADTs
12:35	hiredman	timvisher: you can't, destructure needs to know the keys to bind the values to names, you cannot do the reverse
12:35	dnolen	seancorfield__: interesting, got a favorite talk thus far?
12:36	seancorfield__	nah, lots of academic stuff... interesting from a theory p.o.v. but nothing really grabbed me yesterday
12:36	timvisher	unless i'm misunderstanding you, i might have worded myself wrong. I'm looking for something like {:keys [bar biz] {:keys [foo]}}
12:36	timvisher	i don't mind having to specify the names explicitly
12:36	timvisher	i just can't figure out the nesting
12:36	seancorfield__	my take away was "implicit (type conversion) is very very powerful but introduces all sorts of problems"
12:36	timvisher	someone told me how to do this before
12:36	timvisher	i just can't remember how
12:37	hiredman	seancorfield__: shocking
12:37	timvisher	i could always use multiple lets
12:38	hiredman	seancorfield__: you should grab the mic and call on the people of scaladays to rise as one and throw off the shackles of complexity
12:39	raek	timvisher: (let [m {:a {:b 1}}, {{b :b} :a} m] b)
12:39	raek	the inner destructuring can be written with the {:keys [b]} shortcut (well, in this case it wasn't much shorter...)
12:40	timvisher	that! exactly. :)
12:40	raek	binding form (symbol or destructuring) to the left and key to the right...
12:40	seancorfield__	hiredman: lol... i feel like i'm back at university doing CS264
12:41	seancorfield__	in fact, one talk yesterday specifically referred to CS264
12:41	seancorfield__	(but i'm british and we don't label courses like that)
12:42	seancorfield__	doug's talking about concurrent collection libraries using CAS under the hood and self-healing algorithms to maintain internal consistency
12:42	dnolen	seancorfield__: hammurabi seemed interesting, but I find it humorous that writing 2X-4X the Scala to is improvement over the Jess Lisp syntax.
12:43	seancorfield__	dnolen: yeah, mario showed the jess example in his talk and complained about duplication of rules in the lisp code
12:43	seancorfield__	his preso was pretty good tho' but reinforced what i don't like about scala :)
12:46	seancorfield__	there's definitely some phenomenal work being done in the scala community but there's so much complexity behind the scenes... these two days are making me much more comfortable with choosing clojure for most of our future work at World Singles
12:47	rlb	The empty? docs request (seq x) rather than (not (empty? x)). What about the converse? i.e. (if (empty? x) ...)
12:49	seancorfield__	rlb: not sure what you're asking...?
12:49	seancorfield__	,(doc empty?)
12:49	clojurebot	"([coll]); Returns true if coll has no items - same as (not (seq coll)). Please use the idiom (seq x) rather than (not (empty? x))"
12:49	rlb	Is (if (empty? ) ...) considered idomatic?
12:50	rlb	(if (empty? x) ...)
12:50	seancorfield__	ah, because the docs indicate (not (empty? x)) is not idiomatic?
12:50	rlb	right
12:50	rlb	just curious -- trying to adjust to clojure's seq semantics...
12:50	seancorfield__	i think it's just indicating the complement pair is (empty? x) and (seq x) so you should avoid (not ...)
12:51	rlb	makes sense -- just wanted to check.
12:51	rlb	thx
13:02	seancorfield__	keynote is over... off to sessions now... may be back on and off during the day
13:05	astoddard	,(clojure-version)
13:05	clojurebot	"1.2.0"
13:06	astoddard	,(sort [5.0 2.0 Double/NaN 3.0])
13:06	clojurebot	(2.0 5.0 NaN 3.0)
13:10	dnolen	in a time when people thump the ground about static types yet don't understand the theory of Prolog are sad times indeed ...
13:17	astoddard	,(sort [5.0 2.0 Double/NaN 3.0])
13:17	clojurebot	(2.0 5.0 NaN 3.0)
13:18	astoddard	Is the above behavior of sort with NaNs present likely to remain in 1.3?
13:22	rlb	Couldn't figure out why things weren't working -- took a while to notice that I'd typed `(foo ,bar) rather than `(foo ~bar).
13:23	ataggart	Thrdb: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-738
13:24	ataggart	rlb: ^
13:24	ataggart	ok, Im gonna stop typing until I've had my coffee
13:36	Dranik	is there any tutorial on writing a leiningen plugin?
13:37	seancorfield__	Dranik: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen/blob/master/PLUGINS.md
13:37	Dranik	thanks
13:50	aaelony	hi - I realize a few things have moved around in contrib. Where are the most up to date docs for the most stable contrib API ?
13:51	ataggart	old clojure-contrib is stable for 1.2
13:51	aaelony	link ?
13:51	ataggart	to what?
13:51	aaelony	I'm looking for contrib that works with clojure 1.2.1
13:52	aaelony	a doc link
13:52	manutter	aaelony: have you looked at clojuredocs.org?
13:52	ataggart	http://clojure.github.com/clojure-contrib/
13:52	ataggart	https://github.com/clojure/clojure-contrib/commits/master
13:52	manutter	(um, or the official site too, I guess ... )
13:53	aaelony	yes, I am confused because there is assembla, clojure.org, and there is github, but they are diffs
13:53	stuartsierra	Assembla is dead and gone.
13:53	aaelony	ok
13:53	aaelony	i guess its not always clear (to me) which doc links are stale (dead or gone)...
13:54	TimMc	stuartsierra: Dead, but not gone. :-(
13:54	stuartsierra	clojure.org has conceptual documentation. clojure.github.com has full API docs for every core function/macro.
13:54	TimMc	It is still there to confuse newcomers.
13:54	stuartsierra	Noted. Will raise with Core.
13:54	aaelony	I'll check out clojure.github.com for the full API
13:54	ataggart	aaelony: contrib readme is here https://github.com/clojure/clojure-contrib/blob/master/README.md
13:54	aaelony	thanks
13:55	TimMc	stuartsierra: Wait, maybe not... I can't find the old stuff anymore.
13:56	stuartsierra	Yeah, http://www.assembla.com/spaces/clojure/wiki is still there but points to dev.clojure.org on every page.
13:56	aaelony	for example, if I want to use something that reads json files with clojure 1.2.1, do I use clojure.data.json or do i use clojure.contrib.json?
13:57	stuartsierra	Both will work. Only clojure.data.json will be continued in the future.
13:57	aaelony	thnks
13:58	aaelony	if I choose clojure.data.json, do I put [org.clojure/data.json "0.1.0"] in my project.clj ?
13:59	ataggart	aaelony: bear in mind the new contrib stuff may be dependent on features of 1.3, and the old contrib stuff may be dependent on deprecatd features in 1.3
13:59	aaelony	ataggart: yes, this is what I am getting at
13:59	stuartsierra	aaelony: yes
13:59	aaelony	thanks
13:59	stuartsierra	ataggart: Most of new contrib should still work in 1.2, though there are a couple exceptions.
14:00	ataggart	stuartsierra: true, just wanted to put out that caveat.
14:00	stuartsierra	yes
14:00	ataggart	it's an awkward time for someone to begin working with contrib
14:01	stuartsierra	contrib has always been awkward, but I think we're finally on the right track now
14:01	ataggart	yes, once 1.3 is released things will be smoother
14:01	ataggart	though with the number of breaking changes, calling it 1.3 is a bit of a misnomer
14:02	stuartsierra	There's still a possibility it will be called 2.0.
14:02	aaelony	well, for example, I have been using contrib for some while but things are changing and I need to update some code. It would be nice to know the things that need to change and how they relate to explicit versions of clojure and contrib
14:03	ataggart	read the readme I linked to
14:03	ilyak	Is there something like a catalog of clojure libraries? How does one discover libraries for his needs? Is there a place where this topic is discussed?
14:04	aaelony	ataggart: saw that
14:04	ilyak	clojure maillist seems to be about everything and nothing
14:04	technomancy	stuartsierra: it's interesting to me that 1.3 closely follows scala 2.8, which caused much bemoaning of the fact that they didn't name it 3.0.
14:04	ataggart	semantic versioning is a Good Thing
14:04	stuartsierra	technomancy: People will complain in either case. We did a poll and it was a perfectly even split.
14:04	ataggart	ilyak: same way people find most libs: google
14:05	ataggart	ilyak: clojuredocs might be a good plac to search too
14:05	ataggart	http://clojuredocs.org/libs
14:05	ataggart	hmm, thought there were more libs there
14:05	technomancy	stuartsierra: well in the case of scala 2.8 is was the maintainers who were the most regretful
14:05	manutter	clojure toolbox?
14:06	manutter	http://www.clojure-toolbox.com/
14:06	manutter	ilyak: ^
14:06	stuartsierra	I personally want to call it 2.0, but it's not my decision.
14:07	hiredman	this is how I look for libraries: 1. clojure libraries are generally crappy wrappers around java libs 2. look for java libs 3. write my own
14:07	ilyak	Okay, thanks
14:07	ataggart	hiredman: and then release them to compete in the marketplace of libs, right? ;)
14:07	hiredman	ataggart: depends
14:08	stuartsierra	I agree with hiredman.
14:08	ataggart	writing good libraries for other people's possible usecases is Hard
14:09	ataggart	says the guy whose crappy api tiggered the contrib modularity
14:10	technomancy	ataggart: well writing good libraries is especially hard if you don't control the version number.
14:10	ataggart	true dat
14:10	technomancy	it's easy enough to bump the major version and move on with life =)
14:11	hiredman	ataggart: it is, but, for example, some of the existing pattern matching libraries for clojure do things like wrap bodies in fns which breaks recur, obviously a non-starter
14:11	ataggart	which I think was also an issue in clojure itself somewhere
14:12	hiredman	ataggart: oh, sure, very easy for macros to do
14:13	hiredman	but if you have pattern matching you want it to be foundational, which it cannot be if it breaks fundamental parts of the language
14:15	ataggart	It'd be nice if there was a better way to froment peer review of code other than just putting up a message in google groups
14:15	ataggart	s/froment/foment
14:15	sexpbot	<ataggart> It'd be nice if there was a better way to foment peer review of code other than just putting up a message in google groups
14:16	hiredman	there is some arg parsing library we were looking at to use at work, which generates a nice help message, and then if you ask for help unconditionally calls System/exit
14:16	hiredman	which is useless for long running processes
14:17	hiredman	so we rolled our own, and ours is pretty nice, but part of our closed code base unfortunately
14:17	astoddard	ataggart: I looked at the jira link for the NaN <= bug. The issue with sort is very related but still different to me. Unless the comparator is NaN aware (not just ultimately using <) a NaN containing collection is unsortable.
14:17	hiredman	(you can specify a set of valid sets of args, and seperately a map of validator functions for each flag)
14:18	ataggart	astoddard: Double NaNs are sorted as largest Double.
14:18	ataggart	hiredman: what lib is that?
14:18	ataggart	the one that sucks, I mean
14:18	hiredman	clargon maybe
14:20	dnolen	hiredman: yeah wrapping bodies in fns is about structure sharing, it's something I'll have to deal w/ eventually as well ... supporting recur will be tricky.
14:21	hiredman	we have a long running process, and a shell script that acts as a dumb client, the shell script just passes args to the long running process, so calling System/exit is no good
14:43	rlb	Is there anything like __LINE__ to parallel file?
14:43	rlb	i.e. like __FILE__ __LINE__ in C?
14:44	stuartsierra	There's a LINE var in the compiler somewhere. It's not directly exposed but you can get at it.
14:44	hiredman	,@clojure.lang.Compiler/LINE
14:44	clojurebot	0
14:44	stuartsierra	that
14:44	hiredman	well, it is public
14:45	rlb	OK, thanks -- just wanted something for some quick, temporary debug messages.
14:59	rlb	Is it acceptable to use defmacro to create a local macro within a function?
15:00	stuartsierra	no
15:00	stuartsierra	Clojure doesn't have local macros (yet).
15:00	rlb	so is macrolet the right thing to use?
15:00	stuartsierra	If there were a macrolet, yes.
15:01	rlb	(via clojure-contrib.macro-utils)
15:01	mrBliss	or tools.macro: https://github.com/clojure/tools.macro/blob/master/src/main/clojure/clojure/tools/macro.clj#L202
15:01	stuartsierra	That will work in most cases, but it's not a complete solution.
15:01	rlb	ok, thanks -- I don't have to have it, of course. I'll probably just leave it off for now.
15:02	stuartsierra	http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/letmacro
15:05	mrBliss	,(letfn [(f [& args] (if (zero? (first args)) (second args) (recur (dec (first args)) (inc (second args)))))] (f 3 4))
15:05	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Mismatched argument count to recur, expected: 1 args, got: 2
15:05	mrBliss	It seems that one cannot recur when using a variable number of arguments
15:06	hiredman	you can, you have to box your args though
15:06	hiredman	args is a seq, so if you recur to args you have to pass something seq-like (list or vector or seq)
15:07	mrBliss	hiredman: thanks
15:19	rlb	Is there a way to stop ` from qualifying symbol names? I just want the list (= x y), not (clojure.core/= x y).
15:20	rlb	The context is wrt a test assertion, i.e. `(... (pprint-str '(= ~x ~y)))
15:20	stuartsierra	~'x will do it
15:20	clojurebot	2009:Jan:29:16:03:17 <hiredman> I call Xiphojura
15:21	rlb	Ah, of course; thanks.
15:25	aav_away	$seen lpetit
15:25	sexpbot	lpetit was last seen quitting 1 week and 2 days ago.
16:17	Dranik	how to check the equality of strings?
16:18	manutter	,(.compareToIgnoreCase "foo" "bar")
16:18	clojurebot	4
16:18	manutter	ok, that's a bit different than I expected
16:18	ataggart	,(= "foo" "bar")
16:18	clojurebot	false
16:18	manutter	,(= "foo" "foo")
16:18	clojurebot	true
16:19	manutter	,(> "foo" "bar")
16:19	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to java.lang.Number
16:19	manutter	,(.compareTo "bar" "foo")
16:19	clojurebot	-4
16:20	Dranik	manutter: thanks
16:20	manutter	So plain old = works for equality, but you have to use .compareTo or .compareToIgnoreCase for > or <
16:20	manutter	Dranik: anytime
16:20	Dranik	manutter: does the = call native java "equal" method?
16:20	manutter	I just did this for one of the 4clojure probs :)
16:20	manutter	Not sure what the = does
16:21	dnolen	,(doc =)
16:21	clojurebot	"([x] [x y] [x y & more]); Equality. Returns true if x equals y, false if not. Same as Java x.equals(y) except it also works for nil, and compares numbers and collections in a type-independent manner. Clojure's immutable data structures define equals() (and thus =) as a value, not an identity, comparison."
16:21	manutter	~botsnack
16:21	clojurebot	Thanks, but I prefer chocolate
16:21	manutter	~chocolate
16:22	clojurebot	Titim gan éirí ort.
16:22	manutter	Ha!
16:22	dnolen	~pizza
16:22	clojurebot	No entiendo
17:33	arohner	is there a good way to determine how much memory an object is using?
17:33	stuartsierra	arohner: Only with a JVM profiler.
17:54	arohner	stuartsierra: http://sizeof.sourceforge.net/
17:56	stuartsierra	cool
19:24	duck1123	can anyone tell me where clojure.contrib.duck-streams/pwd went?
19:24	duck1123	I hate trying to track down the new locations of missing functions
19:25	hiredman	duck1123: it was most like decided to be junk and not promoted to other places when the rest of duckstreams was
19:26	hiredman	https://github.com/richhickey/clojure-contrib/blob/061f3d5b45657a89faa335ffa2bb80819f2e6918/src/main/clojure/clojure/contrib/duck_streams.clj#L270
19:26	hiredman	it's not really 'pwd'
19:26	technomancy	duck1123: (System/getProperty "user.dir")
19:26	hiredman	it is "the value of the mutable system property 'user.dir'"
19:27	aavram	yes, i think the refactorings are good, but there is a real sense of "who moved my cheese?
19:27	aavram	"
19:27	duck1123	Okay. I'm trying to fix up aleph for 1.3 and couldn't find that one. Glad I don't need another dep
19:28	technomancy	aavram: well the whole point of contrib was "we don't know if this is good yet."
19:28	aavram	i understand
19:28	TimMc	technomancy: reminds me of javax.*
19:28	technomancy	the problem was there was a genuine need for a standard library, and contrib was used as that even though that wasn't what it was intended for
19:29	duck1123	I definitely believe that when it's all done and moved it'll be good. It's just a pain right now
19:30	duck1123	I went through all of the dependencies in my project last weekend and removed every trace of c.c 1.2
19:30	TimMc	I'm not familiar with the details of this refactoring -- has there been any effort to make a consistent API for code that needs to be compatible with both 1.2 and 1.3?
19:31	aavram	maybe it would be good to have lein give warnings like: "you are using libs a and b. if you use lib-a version 1.0 you need to use lib-b version 1.1" or something
19:31	hiredman	clojure.core is largely the same, contrib is the big change
19:32	duck1123	also minor issues like dynamics, and potemkin doesn't work when you pass it a symbol
19:32	hiredman	potemkin?
19:33	duck1123	it's a lib that is used in aleph and lamina. It's essentially compojure's old immegrate
19:33	hiredman	ugh
19:33	duck1123	but on a fn by fn level
19:33	hiredman	digusting, glad it's broken
19:33	duck1123	never been a fan myself honestly
20:45	lpetit	hello
20:47	scottj	que pachuca por toluca
20:47	lpetit	I've a very basic ring question : based on some handler logic, I'd like to serve a success file or a failure file. Those files would be in my webapp, for example at <webappContextProvidedByTomcat>/someSubdir/success and <webappContextProvidedByTomcat>/someSubdir/error
20:49	lpetit	In "basic" JEE, I know how to do this: I call request.getContext() to get the "http://<server>:<port>/<webappContextProvidedByTomcat>" part of the URL (parts on which my webapp will have, of course, no control). And my handler can just add the webapp-relative part: /someSubdir/succes
20:49	lpetit	I don't know how to do this with Ring :-(
20:55	scottj	does this work (-> request :servlet-request .getContextPath)
20:56	scottj	ring ml thread "Accessing HttpServletRequest object in the request-map" idk
20:58	lpetit	scottj: I'll see, thanks. I was working right from the SPEC document, and didn't know about these specific keys added by the adapter
21:01	Guest2285	is there a way to ignore a line break in multiline strings in clojure
21:02	scottj	Guest2285: don't think so
21:03	Guest2285	such as in python if you have a newline immediately following the \ character in a multiline string the newline gets ignored?
21:25	rahulkmr	What's the idiomatic way to do byte io in clojure? I can wrap Java streams for one
21:26	brehaut	rahulkmr: have you looked at the clojure.java.io module?
21:27	rahulkmr	What are the IOFactory docs it talks about?
21:28	rahulkmr	Usage: (input-stream x & opts)
21:28	rahulkmr	And I can't find explanation for & opts
21:28	rahulkmr	oh got it
21:28	rahulkmr	:append and :encoding
21:31	rahulkmr	In clojure.java.io make-* and * function seem to be saying the same thing. For eg. output-stream and make-output-stream. Just that output-stream has bigger docs
21:33	brehaut	rahulkmr: im no expert but i think you probably use the non-make versions most of the time
21:35	brehaut	rahulkmr: basicly the idiomatic way is to use the io utilities where possible, but otherwise you just do java IO
21:35	rahulkmr	Yep. got it output-stream uses make-output-stream https://gist.github.com/1007447
21:36	rahulkmr	gotta love clojure.repl.source
21:36	offby1	do I _gotta_?
21:37	brehaut	source is pretty great but apropos still wins for my favorite repl util
21:38	rahulkmr	Yes. apropos is great but I do a lot of (use..) in repl. My ns are polluted like anything
21:40	quizme	if I do a (doseq) on a clojurql query that operates on millions of rows, will that put the whole seq into memory? I want to just work the seq one item at a time, then have the jvm garbage collect along the way. how do i do that?
21:40	brehaut	quizme: look at dorun: it doesnt hold the head and returns nil
21:41	brehaut	actually, doseq also doesnt hold the head and returns nil
21:43	quizme	brehaut ok so doseq should do the trick i guess, thanks.