2011-04-16
| 00:00 | justinlilly | jars are just zip files + metadata. |
| 00:00 | chewbran1a | doesn't seem to work for me, $ zgrep couch lib/clojure-couchdb-0.4.7.jar returns nothing |
| 00:03 | justinlilly | disappointing :-/ |
| 00:30 | amalloy | justinlilly, chewbran1a: zgrep passes its options straight along to gunzip, whish probably assumes gzip encoding unless you pass it a zip option |
| 00:30 | justinlilly | interesting. man page says "passes its options along to grep" or somesuch, iirc. |
| 00:31 | justinlilly | from manpage: All options specified are passed directly to grep. |
| 00:31 | amalloy | oh sorry. guess i misread |
| 00:31 | amalloy | but it definitely supports zip encoding |
| 00:31 | justinlilly | best I could come up with was grep -a (which assumes its text format, not binary) |
| 00:31 | justinlilly | doesn't work very well though. |
| 00:31 | amalloy | if you find the right option |
| 00:32 | justinlilly | brief googling turned up unarchive, grep, rearchive :-P |
| 00:32 | amalloy | ewwww what |
| 00:33 | amalloy | but i guess the zip format is pretty crippled. maybe that makes sense |
| 00:40 | Apage43 | man |
| 00:40 | Apage43 | zip |
| 00:41 | Apage43 | i hope if i create one of the most widely used file formats in existence that i don't die alone in a hotel room of alcohol poisoning. |
| 01:13 | amalloy | Apage43: that's probably a good thing to hope for whether or not you create any file formats at all |
| 01:14 | Apage43 | it's not likely, at any rate. I'm not really into alcohol much. |
| 01:16 | Apage43 | file formats though I might dabble in too much sometimes. |
| 01:16 | carllerche | is there a function that wraps a value in a seq unless it already is in one? |
| 01:25 | amalloy | $findfn 1 [1] |
| 01:25 | sexpbot | [clojure.core/xml-seq clojure.core/vector clojure.core/list] |
| 01:25 | amalloy | looks like no built-ins |
| 01:26 | carllerche | how does findfn work? |
| 01:26 | amalloy | carllerche: how is it implemented, or how do you use it? |
| 01:26 | carllerche | well, both I guess... is there a local version? |
| 01:26 | carllerche | i'm still finding the API docs a bit hard to manage |
| 01:27 | amalloy | no, joshua__ and i wrote it for sexpbot. mec cloned sexpbot and pulled it out into something local, but i haven't looked into it |
| 01:27 | carllerche | since I still barely know the landscape |
| 01:27 | amalloy | the syntax is $findfn arg1 arg2... result |
| 01:28 | amalloy | he tries (f arg1 arg2...) on every function he knows about and sees which ones end up giving you the result you want |
| 01:28 | amalloy | $findfn inc [1 2 3] [2 3 4] |
| 01:28 | sexpbot | [clojure.core/map clojure.core/keep] |
| 01:28 | carllerche | something like: (defn wrap [x] (if (coll? x) x [x])) |
| 01:30 | amalloy | carllerche: and feel free to /msg sexpbot anything you want to try out |
| 01:31 | carllerche | nice |
| 01:32 | amalloy | of course findfn is pretty primitive: it can't figure out inc from $findfn map [1 2 3] [2 3 4], because you need to pass inc as an argument, not call it. but for simple stuff it helps you find your way around, and discover occasional gems |
| 01:33 | amalloy | $findfn [1 2 3] [3 2 1] ; cause i forget what rseq is called |
| 01:33 | sexpbot | [clojure.core/rseq clojure.core/reverse] |
| 01:33 | carllerche | heh, that's cool |
| 01:34 | amalloy | hm? |
| 01:34 | clojurebot | hmm, maybe my repl is out of wack |
| 01:34 | amalloy | clojurebot: forget hm |
| 01:34 | clojurebot | hmm, maybe my repl is out of wack |
| 01:34 | amalloy | bah |
| 01:34 | technomancy | clojurebot: forget hmm, maybe my repl |is| out of wack |
| 01:34 | clojurebot | I forgot that hmm, maybe my repl is out of wack |
| 01:34 | amalloy | ah |
| 01:34 | technomancy | (since it allows arbitrary verbs) |
| 01:35 | amalloy | clojurebot: hm? |
| 01:35 | clojurebot | Pardon? |
| 01:35 | amalloy | hooray |
| 02:31 | joshua__ | technomancy, what |is| that hmm thing you guys were just messing with? |
| 02:42 | chewbran1a | anyone have a recommendation for parsing a large xml file? running xml-seq on a 1gb file and hitting MemoryError: GC overhead limit exceeded |
| 02:45 | mreynolds | chewbran1a: Are you doing something like this : http://www.chrisumbel.com/article/clojure_xml_parsing_xml-seq ? |
| 02:48 | chewbran1a | mreynolds: basically doing: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1194044/clojure-xml-parsing/1195568#1195568 |
| 02:50 | mreynolds | chewbran1a: Unfortunately I'm struggling with a similar problem and am no expert. I can say that what I've read would indicate that you might be holding on to a portion of the sequence. Also, that question was answered in 09 and might be a bit dated versus the new sequence code. Do you know what objects are being held on to? |
| 02:51 | chewbran1a | mreynolds: just stumbled upon this: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/clojure/Nlynqq-NVbc |
| 02:51 | chewbran1a | looks like xml parse loads the whole doc |
| 02:52 | mreynolds | ouch |
| 02:53 | chewbran1a | that last link points to a library: https://github.com/marktriggs/xml-picker-seq that is apparently designed for processing large xml files |
| 02:54 | mreynolds | chewbran1a: makes sense with the 'seq' on the end |
| 02:54 | mreynolds | chewbran1a: good luck :) Let me know if it works |
| 02:54 | chewbran1a | mreynolds: will do |
| 03:11 | mreynolds | Is there a way to shorten the printing of a.b.c.d/keyword (used as ::keyword) to just ::keyword? |
| 03:17 | amalloy | mreynolds: i don't think you'd really want that. the printed value would stop being correct if you changed namespaces |
| 03:18 | mreynolds | amalloy: Not sure what you mean. I'm not trying to get rid of the namespace in the code, just on console when I print it out? I understand that just using :keyword vs ::keyword looses the namespace, and thus the comparison capabilities. |
| 03:18 | mreynolds | amalloy: Right now I have a ton of records with "a.b.c.d" in them and it's filling my screen. Just want to trim it down a bit. |
| 03:20 | amalloy | meh. i'm probably being too dogmatic, but i like that when clojure prints a value V to string S, it can be read back in as the same V, and will compare equal to other objects that print as S |
| 03:21 | mreynolds | amalloy: Oh, I agree if I was using it in a programmatic fashion. At the moment this is just for debugging. |
| 03:22 | amalloy | anyway, i don't think there really is. if there were, there would be some global variable you could set! to make keywords change their behavior |
| 03:22 | mreynolds | looks like it might be this : http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/1.2.0/clojure.pprint/*print-suppress-namespaces* |
| 03:23 | mreynolds | ... but I just realized the reason I was printing that thing was because of forcing the evaluation, so lemme fix that bug first |
| 03:37 | mreynolds | Alright, I'm stuck on the classic "when I print it, it works; when I don't print it, it doesn't work" bug. Is there a doc I can read to help explain this better? I've been futzing around with (do) for far too long with no results. |
| 03:37 | mreynolds | (bug here is in my code, in case I didn't state that clearly) |
| 03:58 | hiredman | ,(doc condp) |
| 03:58 | clojurebot | "([pred expr & clauses]); Takes a binary predicate, an expression, and a set of clauses. Each clause can take the form of either: test-expr result-expr test-expr :>> result-fn Note :>> is an ordinary keyword. For each clause, (pred test-expr expr) is evaluated. If it returns logical true, the clause is a match. If a binary clause matches, the result-expr is returned, if a ternary clause matches, i... |
| 04:15 | amalloy | mreynolds: do is not really much help laziness-wise. you probably want to look at dorun, doall, or doseq |
| 04:33 | mreynolds | amalloy_: Yeah, thanks. As it turns out, I re-read through my code and realized I was using (do...) correctly, but in the wrong place. Adding a doseq in place of a for loop appears to have fixed the problem. |
| 04:34 | mreynolds | I'm actually pretty stoked at being able to convert my "for loop" style code to a lazy sequence. It's very elegant to be able to do that. |
| 05:03 | chewbran1a | awesome!! got buffered xml parsing working with xml-picker-seq and xom.. good times |
| 05:04 | mreynolds | What ended up working? |
| 05:04 | chewbran1a | mreynolds: just had to port over to using the xom wrapper with a buffered reader |
| 05:04 | mreynolds | chewbran1a: nice :) |
| 05:10 | chewbran1a | http://paste.lisp.org/display/121545 |
| 05:10 | chewbran1a | if anyone is around is bored, I would be happy to hear suggestions or comments on that code |
| 05:10 | mreynolds | chewbran1a: Does it perform the same without the type hint? |
| 05:12 | fliebel | chewbran1a: Does duck-streams offer any advantage over clojure.java.io/reader? |
| 05:12 | chewbran1a | yeah I imagine the type hit isn't necessary, it only creates the reader once, although I honestly have no idea, this is the most complicated piece of clojure I've written yet, so still very new to things |
| 05:13 | fliebel | chewbran1a: I think you could clean up that nested bit a lot with ->> |
| 05:13 | chewbran1a | fliebel: its a clojure contrib library that just facilitates giving you streams to work with |
| 05:13 | chewbran1a | fliebel: http://richhickey.github.com/clojure-contrib/duck-streams-api.html |
| 05:13 | fliebel | chewbran1a: So does clojure.java.io |
| 05:14 | ejackson | morning, morning. |
| 05:14 | fliebel | ejackson: mornng |
| 05:14 | fliebel | http://clojure.github.com/clojure/clojure.java.io-api.html |
| 05:14 | chewbran1a | fliebel: I'm not familiar with ->> and I'll have to take a peek at clojure.java.io |
| 05:14 | tomoj | does duck-streams even exist anymore? |
| 05:15 | tomoj | oh, yep |
| 05:15 | chewbran1a | its used in the lib: https://github.com/marktriggs/xml-picker-seq that is the wrapper around xom I'm using, so I just went with duck-stream |
| 05:15 | chewbran1a | main issue was processing a gig of xml without overflowing GC/memory |
| 05:16 | tomoj | there's also clojure.contrib.io |
| 05:16 | tomoj | confusing... |
| 05:16 | fliebel | chewbran1a: ##(->> (range 10) (map (partial * 2)) (apply str) reverse println) |
| 05:16 | sexpbot | ⟹ (8 1 6 1 4 1 2 1 0 1 8 6 4 2 0) nil |
| 05:16 | chewbran1a | which this is churning along on now with utilization, much better than before |
| 05:17 | chewbran1a | fliebel: oh niiiiice |
| 05:17 | chewbran1a | yeah that would have helped a lot |
| 05:17 | chewbran1a | when was that introduced? |
| 05:17 | fliebel | chewbran1a: -> threds at the first argument ->> threads at the last one. |
| 05:18 | tomoj | &(:added (meta #'->>)) |
| 05:18 | sexpbot | ⟹ "1.1" |
| 05:18 | fliebel | &(:added (meta '->>)) |
| 05:18 | sexpbot | ⟹ nil |
| 05:18 | clojurebot | ⟹ "Returns the metadata of obj, returns nil if there is no metadata." |
| 05:18 | fliebel | lol |
| 05:19 | chewbran1a | fliebel: very cool, I'll port over to that and clean up the code a bit |
| 06:20 | fliebel | I don't know what to think of this… Is it just that Clojure infected my brain, or is it silly to use a class for containing mouse buttons? https://github.com/pepijndevos/pyMouse/pull/8/files |
| 06:25 | mids | lacking symbols (I think), this seems like a fair way to do an enumeration in .py |
| 06:28 | mids | alternative might be using string literals (which are interned by default) |
| 07:58 | peteriserins | is it possible to prevent stack overflow for this function while preserving the same style? (def memo-fib (memoize #(if (< % 2) 1 (+ (memo-fib (dec %)) (memo-fib (- % 2)))))) |
| 07:59 | fliebel | $mail stuartsierra It just occurred to me the you can't observe a certain type of events in cljque like you can in Swing. Useful? |
| 07:59 | sexpbot | Message saved. |
| 08:01 | fliebel | peteriserins: Same style? I don't think so. The way to avoid stackoverflow is to use looping, or looping that looks like TCO. |
| 08:02 | hiredman | 'interative' vs. 'recursive' |
| 08:02 | peteriserins | fliebel: but why does the stack overflow appear for a memoized function? |
| 08:02 | peteriserins | fliebel: oh I see, maybe I should precompute the first few values in sequence |
| 08:03 | fliebel | peteriserins: How does memoizing help here? |
| 08:03 | peteriserins | fliebel: yep, it worked |
| 08:05 | peteriserins | fliebel: I'll pastebin in a moment |
| 08:05 | fliebel | peteriserins: As I see it, the result would only be memoized after the recurring, because before that, no function returns. |
| 08:06 | peteriserins | yep, http://pastebin.com/MAEsKSjM |
| 08:09 | fliebel | peteriserins: Run it with 2000, you just postponed the problem. |
| 08:09 | peteriserins | fliebel: works for me; are you setting the first 1000 to 2000 as well? |
| 08:10 | fliebel | peteriserins: Ah, I see what you're aiming at. Yes, if you do it that way, it works. |
| 08:12 | fliebel | You could increase step a whole lot. (range 1 1000 100) |
| 08:13 | peteriserins | fliebel: oh right, step could pretty much be the stack overflow treshold |
| 08:14 | peteriserins | fliebel: but one might have to do those values in pairs of adjacent numbers |
| 08:14 | fliebel | peteriserins: Why? |
| 08:15 | peteriserins | fliebel: so that it can have enough memoized values without going from 1000 to 1 |
| 08:16 | fliebel | peteriserins: Also, why would you want to store every fib number from 0 to the highest computed so far? Just the last 2 would do, right? |
| 08:16 | peteriserins | fliebel: as long as I need only successively higher ones |
| 08:16 | peteriserins | fliebel: but say I want some sparse set, I have to keep intermediates |
| 08:17 | fliebel | okay... |
| 08:19 | peteriserins | then again if I wanted random big numbers, I'd probably just do matrix exp |
| 08:19 | fliebel | peteriserins: Why do you want fib numbers anyway? Some Euler problem? |
| 08:20 | peteriserins | fliebel: yes Euler problem, but I actually want the totient function, I was just experimenting with fibs |
| 08:20 | raek | peteriserins: another way to implement a sequence of numbers like this is to represent them as a lazy sequence. this solves the problem of recursive calls, but does not "preserve the style". |
| 08:21 | peteriserins | raek: for the totient function, I'd need to refer to arbitrary indices not just a few previous |
| 08:21 | peteriserins | but this approach seems to take up a lot of space, so I don't think it'll work |
| 08:23 | peteriserins | I was basically hoping to find a more clojuresque way of doing dynamic programming than making a mutable array a la C |
| 09:29 | Borkdude | I am using a wrap-reload handler in compojure |
| 09:29 | Borkdude | I am expecting that it only reloads when the source file changes, but it reloads with every request even when nothing changed |
| 10:24 | Borkdude` | Trying lein ring now |
| 10:24 | Borkdude` | and I keep getting this exception: |
| 10:24 | Borkdude` | Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoSuchMethodError: clojure.lang.RestFn.<ini |
| 10:24 | Borkdude` | t>(I)V (war.clj:1) |
| 10:26 | Borkdude` | Project.clj here: http://pastie.org/1800713 |
| 10:33 | dnolen | Borkdude`: that usually means you have some compiled lib that doesn't match the Clojure version. |
| 11:52 | Borkdude` | Ah it was probably a conflict between lein-run and lein-ring |
| 11:58 | TimMc | Huh, I thought I would get Double/POSITIVE_INFINITY if I did (/ 0.0) |
| 12:23 | SergioTapia | Hi Clojure community. |
| 12:23 | SergioTapia | I'm mainly a .NET/Ruby developer and I'd like to start branching out a bit and learn about functional programming. What book would you recommend for someone that knows how to program, but wants to learn about Clojure and what it's used for? |
| 12:24 | Borkdude` | The Joy of Clojure |
| 12:24 | Borkdude` | also see this (my) thread on SO: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2578837/comparing-clojure-books |
| 12:25 | SergioTapia | Thanks, let me get some coffee and take a look. I tried Raynes try-clojure website and the syntax for the language is kind of freaky! in a good way. |
| 12:25 | SergioTapia | (+ 2 2) Hehe :) I like how you can nest different anonymous methods and works with the resutls. |
| 12:25 | clojurebot | 4 |
| 12:25 | Raynes | SergioTapia: The Joy of Clojure is a fantastic book, but you probably want to start with Practical Clojure and /then/ read The Joy of Clojure. |
| 12:26 | SergioTapia | Raynes! LOL you're here?! |
| 12:26 | SergioTapia | You're raynes from DIC right? |
| 12:26 | Raynes | Yes, and I'm always here. :) |
| 12:27 | SergioTapia | Hahaha, great. Expect me to ask a LOT of questions about the language. :D By the way, great site: try-clojure |
| 12:27 | Raynes | <3 |
| 12:28 | tufflax | SergioTapia I recommend you read the docs on clojure.org, I read 2 books and the docs, and I think I learned the most from reading the docs |
| 12:28 | SergioTapia | Nah - I despise reading docs from top to bottom. :x I prefer a book with a more linear learning path. |
| 12:28 | SergioTapia | From there I can branch out to topics that interest me. |
| 12:28 | tufflax | Ok :) |
| 12:28 | Raynes | Right, the docs are fantastic, but aren't organized in a linear for-beginners way. |
| 12:28 | Borkdude` | SergioTapia: if you need to search the docs, clojuredocs.org is a great site |
| 12:29 | SergioTapia | Also: I'm going to be using Eclipse with the CounterClockwise plugin. *ducks* |
| 12:29 | SergioTapia | Read about it here: http://learn-clojure.com/get_clojure.html |
| 12:29 | Raynes | SergioTapia: Nothing to duck for. Plenty of people use that. |
| 12:30 | Raynes | Most Clojurians use Emacs and Vim is a close second, but those aren't the only valid options. :> |
| 12:30 | SergioTapia | I WISH I could use Emacs, but I need the autocomplete at first. to get a feel for the language. |
| 12:31 | Raynes | SLIME does autocomplete, methinks. Not sure exactly how it works. I don't think I've ever used autocomplete in any language. |
| 12:31 | Borkdude | SergioTapia: you can do it, but it will just be a matter of time before you start using emacs for irc ánd clojure programming.. *ducks* |
| 12:31 | rcg | Raynes: when you say vim.. whats the setup of choice for developping clojure with vim.. already found some tutorials out there but just want another opinion |
| 12:31 | Raynes | rcg: VimClojure. http://dev.clojure.org/display/doc/Getting+Started There is a page for it here. |
| 12:32 | SergioTapia | Raynes: So how do you know what class offers what? Or how do you see a method signature? Do you just commit them to memory? |
| 12:32 | rcg | Raynes: ah sweet, thanks.. |
| 12:32 | SergioTapia | Coming from .NET/Ruby, the main benefit of having autocomplete for me, was seeing what fit where when working on larger projects. |
| 12:33 | Borkdude | Raynes: class? aaah, it buuurns ;-P |
| 12:33 | Raynes | Well, Clojure has neat tools for finding documentation and such. |
| 12:33 | Raynes | &(doc println) |
| 12:33 | sexpbot | ⟹ "([& more]); Same as print followed by (newline)" |
| 12:33 | Raynes | &(find-doc "print") |
| 12:33 | sexpbot | ⟹ ------------------------- clojure.contrib.pprint/*code-dispatch* [[object]] The pretty print dispatch function for pretty printing Clojure code. ------------------------- clojure.contrib.pprint/*print-base* nil The base to use for printing integers and rationa... failed to gist: Connection reset |
| 12:33 | Raynes | Well, you see the point. |
| 12:33 | Raynes | (notes that it failed because the gist was too large. |
| 12:34 | Raynes | ) ; closes his parentheses. |
| 12:34 | tufflax | :) |
| 12:34 | SergioTapia | Ok, so you have that. I guess I'll have to see it in action |
| 12:35 | Raynes | You'll find that things are easier to remember in Clojure because of the lack of complexity. |
| 12:35 | Raynes | Things tend to be simple. |
| 12:36 | SergioTapia | From the very small lines of code I've seen I really like the way you can pipeline statements. It feels very similar to Linq in how you can chain results with new actions. |
| 12:36 | SergioTapia | Feels very very slick. |
| 12:36 | tufflax | "statements", what is that? |
| 12:37 | Raynes | tufflax: Be gentle. He has yet to learn our terminology. ;) |
| 12:38 | SergioTapia | What do you call statements in clojure? This is a statement in C#/Ruby: x = 1 + 2; |
| 12:38 | TimMc | SergioTapia: I assume you are referring to how functions can be composed? e.g. ##(first (drop-while (partial < 5) (range 10))) |
| 12:38 | sexpbot | ⟹ 0 |
| 12:38 | tufflax | SergioTapia: In clojure there are special operators, macros and functions |
| 12:39 | TimMc | err, ##(first (drop-while (partial > 5) (range 10))) |
| 12:39 | sexpbot | ⟹ 5 |
| 12:39 | SergioTapia | So statement = function? |
| 12:39 | SergioTapia | "Everything is a first class function" I read somewhere. |
| 12:39 | tufflax | let in a s.o., while is a macro, and + is a function |
| 12:39 | TimMc | SergioTapia: A statement changes state. :-) |
| 12:39 | tufflax | SergioTapia well, there are also special operators and macros, so that's not quite true |
| 12:39 | Borkdude | SergioTapia: often in C# statements are actually expressions of which you ignore their results |
| 12:40 | TimMc | Clojure avoids that in most of the code. |
| 12:40 | SergioTapia | There's a lot of wooshing going on in my room right now. I'll read the book and come back to ask any questions I might have. :) |
| 12:40 | Borkdude | SergioTapia: in Clojure everything is an expression, like (+ 1 2 3) is the expression which evaluates to 6 |
| 12:41 | Borkdude | (+ 1 2 3) |
| 12:41 | clojurebot | *suffusion of yellow* |
| 12:41 | Borkdude | #(+ 1 2 3) |
| 12:41 | Borkdude | how does this work nowadays? |
| 12:41 | Borkdude | &(+ 1 2 3) |
| 12:41 | sexpbot | ⟹ 6 |
| 12:41 | tufflax | , or & |
| 12:41 | clojurebot | java.lang.Exception: Can't take value of a macro: #'clojure.core/or |
| 12:42 | Borkdude | then what is ## for? I saw it used somewhere |
| 12:42 | tufflax | dunno |
| 12:42 | Borkdude | can you ask clojurebot for help? |
| 12:42 | Borkdude | or sexpbot? |
| 12:42 | mrBliss | You can use ##(+ 1 1) for evaluating expressions in the middle of a sentence. |
| 12:42 | sexpbot | ⟹ 2 |
| 12:42 | tufflax | probably, don't know exactly |
| 12:43 | tufflax | how |
| 12:43 | Borkdude | sexpbot help |
| 12:43 | Borkdude | ,(help) |
| 12:43 | clojurebot | java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: help in this context |
| 12:43 | Borkdude | ;-) |
| 12:48 | Raynes | Borkdude: ##(println "is for embedded code. Unfortunately, you can't ask him for help on this.") |
| 12:48 | sexpbot | ⟹ is for embedded code. Unfortunately, you can't ask him for help on this. nil |
| 12:52 | SergioTapia | So I find a guide on how to install the CounterClockwise addon and it's pretty awesome. Guess who wrote it? |
| 12:53 | SergioTapia | http://dev.clojure.org/display/doc/Getting+Started+with+Eclipse+and+Counterclockwise |
| 12:53 | SergioTapia | :D |
| 12:54 | Raynes | SergioTapia: I didn't write that. |
| 12:54 | Raynes | SergioTapia: Clojure's wiki used to be on Assembla. When they moved to confluence, I moved all of those pages to there, so it has my name on it. |
| 12:55 | SergioTapia | Bummer. Still, I found it. ;) |
| 12:55 | SergioTapia | &(+ 1 2 3) |
| 12:55 | sexpbot | ⟹ 6 |
| 12:56 | SergioTapia | &(println ("I'm actually built with Java.")) |
| 12:56 | sexpbot | java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn |
| 12:56 | SergioTapia | NOOOOOOOOOOooooooo |
| 12:56 | SergioTapia | Still learning. :) |
| 12:56 | markoman | what does this mean: clojure.lang.IFn? |
| 12:57 | SergioTapia | I think a IFn is an anonymous function. |
| 12:57 | Raynes | markoman: Something that is an IFn. A Clojure function. He wrapped a string in parentheses, so it tried to call the string, but the string isn't a function, so boom. |
| 12:57 | markoman | im getting that error every while and then |
| 12:58 | SergioTapia | Testing... |
| 12:58 | SergioTapia | &(println "I'm actually built with Java.") |
| 12:58 | sexpbot | ⟹ I'm actually built with Java. nil |
| 12:58 | SergioTapia | Why did it add nil? |
| 12:59 | markoman | ,(println "I'm actually built with Java.") |
| 12:59 | clojurebot | I'm actually built with Java. |
| 12:59 | Raynes | SergioTapia: Because everything in Clojure has to return something. Even if it's only nil. Since println does side-effects and has no meaningful value to return, it returns nil. |
| 12:59 | Raynes | The text is what println prints and nil is what it returns. |
| 13:00 | Raynes | clojurebot apparently throws away the return value. Not sure why. |
| 13:01 | SergioTapia | I see. |
| 13:01 | SergioTapia | OK, I'm out. Be back later on tonight for some Clojure coding and reading. This is really different to anything I've ever used before. |
| 13:01 | Raynes | Your mind. It'll be blown. |
| 13:01 | Raynes | Have fun. |
| 13:01 | markoman | :) |
| 13:02 | SergioTapia | Also, worth throwing it out there out of interest. Have any of you guys tried F#? Have you noticed any shortcomings with the language compared to other FP langs such as Clojure and Erlang? |
| 13:02 | Raynes | I played with F# when it first came out. No real opinion on it or OCaml. |
| 13:12 | Borkdude | I tried F# |
| 13:28 | ataggart | with the advent of non-dynamically-rebindable vars, are there any naming conventions for them? |
| 13:29 | TimMc | ataggart: I would think that the naming conventions are more necessary for rebindable vars. |
| 13:30 | TimMc | i.e., vars are assumed to be static most of the time anyway |
| 13:30 | ataggart | TimMc: yes, but we already have those, namely earmuffs, thigns without earmuffs are generally functions. Just wondering if there was a community standard for non-function vars that cannot be rebound |
| 13:30 | ataggart | I'd almost call them constants |
| 13:31 | ataggart | oh well, I'll just omit the earmuffs |
| 13:31 | pdk` | did people really rebind vars that often before anyway |
| 13:31 | pdk` | cause that's just ugly |
| 13:33 | ataggart | *out* gets rebound all the time |
| 13:34 | seancorfield | *db* iin c.c.sql too I believe? |
| 13:35 | SergioTapia | Guys, do you use Linux? I have a question not really related to Clojure maybe you could help. |
| 13:35 | SergioTapia | I have a .rar I need to unrar, and I install 7Zip via the software center in Ubuntu 10. However, there is no 7zip context menu when I right click on the file. :S |
| 13:36 | Vinzent | i think you should install unrar |
| 13:36 | seancorfield | yup, just confirmed *db* for c.c.sql (had to go look in internal.clj) |
| 13:36 | TimMc | SergioTapia: You coudl use Open With, or maybe launch 7zip separately and use File-> OPen. |
| 13:37 | SergioTapia | Hm... Open With > Doesn't show me 7zip anywhere. |
| 13:37 | SergioTapia | And I can't find 7zip in the Applications bar up top. |
| 13:37 | SergioTapia | Any other suggestions? |
| 13:37 | seancorfield | sudo locate 7zip |
| 13:37 | Vinzent | ataggart, there is +constant+ convention in CL, but cI've never seen it in clojure code |
| 13:37 | seancorfield | that should tell you where it's hiding |
| 13:38 | seancorfield | (def +answer+ 42) ;; not sure i like that :( |
| 13:38 | SergioTapia | [sudo] password for papuccino1: |
| 13:38 | SergioTapia | /usr/share/app-install/desktop/7zip.desktop |
| 13:38 | SergioTapia | /usr/share/icons/Humanity/mimes/16/application-7zip.svg |
| 13:38 | SergioTapia | /usr/share/icons/Humanity/mimes/22/application-7zip.svg |
| 13:38 | SergioTapia | /usr/share/icons/Humanity/mimes/24/application-7zip.svg |
| 13:38 | SergioTapia | /usr/share/icons/Humanity/mimes/32/application-7zip.svg |
| 13:38 | SergioTapia | /usr/share/icons/Humanity/mimes/48/application-7zip.svg |
| 13:38 | SergioTapia | papuccino1@ubuntu:~$ |
| 13:38 | ataggart | I'd wait for clojure to have an actual deconst |
| 13:38 | SergioTapia | Wow... it seems to have only located the icons. |
| 13:40 | SergioTapia | Solved it, thanks. :) |
| 13:42 | Borkdude | SergioTapia: if you come from .NET, what are you doing in linux? Just wondering. |
| 13:43 | SergioTapia | I wanted to learn new things, things got kind of stale. |
| 13:43 | SergioTapia | Plus, Ruby works better in Linux than in Windows. |
| 13:43 | SergioTapia | Since I like Ruby, I always have an Ubuntu VM on standby. |
| 13:44 | Borkdude | Just know that you don't have to be in Ubuntu for Clojure, although I installed it once just for Clojure... ;-) |
| 13:44 | Borkdude | Did you do F# yourself |
| 13:44 | SergioTapia | Yeah I imagine I can use any Linux distro. But Ubuntu is my favorite, second to Linux Mint. |
| 13:44 | Borkdude | ? |
| 13:45 | SergioTapia | Yeah I used it for about a month. Nothing I would get payed for though. |
| 13:45 | TimMc | Linux tends to be friendlier for development, in my mind. |
| 13:45 | SergioTapia | Fibonacci numbers and other useless stuff like that. |
| 13:45 | Borkdude | SergioTapia: I mean, I get by in Windows using emacs now just as good as in linux |
| 13:45 | SergioTapia | @TimMc: Depends on your language. |
| 13:45 | Borkdude | for clojure |
| 13:45 | TimMc | SergioTapia: Specifically, Windows has *terrible* shell scripting support. |
| 13:46 | TimMc | (Mac = Linux for the purposes of my comments here.) |
| 13:46 | Borkdude | TimMc: I agree, .bat-file hell ;-) |
| 13:46 | TimMc | Also, I hate backslashes in paths. :-P |
| 13:47 | Borkdude | and I needed to download something that did what touch in linux does in Windows, those things make me crazy sometimes |
| 13:47 | SergioTapia | @TimMc: I couldn't agree or not. I've never done shell scripting. |
| 13:47 | Borkdude | TimMc: windows got powershell nowadays, it makes things a lot better |
| 13:47 | SergioTapia | I've used Powershell with Active Directory. Fantastic tbqh. |
| 13:47 | TimMc | SergioTapia: It's really important once you get into complicated projects, where you want to do automated deployment testing and the like. |
| 13:48 | TimMc | Oh yeah, powershell... forgot about that. |
| 13:48 | TimMc | Borkdude: echo >> foo.txt doesn't work as touch? |
| 13:50 | SergioTapia | I'm reading Programming Clojure. Pretty sweet book so far. |
| 13:50 | SergioTapia | (defstruct person :first-name :last-name) |
| 13:50 | SergioTapia | Hm... I like succinct code. :D |
| 13:50 | TimMc | SergioTapia: Just watch out for some of the older syntax. |
| 13:50 | Borkdude | TimMc: when I do that, a foo.txt file gets created with the following content: |
| 13:50 | Borkdude | TimMc: ECHO is on (aan). |
| 13:51 | TimMc | Borkdude: Ah, weird. Try echo -n "" >> foo.txt |
| 13:51 | Borkdude | I actually just needed to modify the "modified date" of certain file |
| 13:51 | Borkdude | s |
| 13:51 | TimMc | Err, maybe echo "" /n or whatever. |
| 13:51 | TimMc | Borkdude: >> is append, so that should work. |
| 13:52 | Borkdude | TimMc: it appends ECHO is on (aan). everytime :) |
| 13:54 | Borkdude | TimMc: and that would totally mess up my files |
| 13:54 | Borkdude | TimMc: but I solved it, someone made a touch.exe which does what touch in linux dus |
| 13:54 | Borkdude | does |
| 14:00 | mefesto` | Raynes: ping? |
| 14:03 | amalloy | mefesto: as it happens i'm poking at tryclojure right now. i might be good enough if he's not around? |
| 14:04 | mefesto | amalloy: oh, i was just going to mention to him that i received a github issue email and wanted to know if it was something i should fix |
| 14:04 | amalloy | mefesto: in fact that's what i'm about to push a fix for |
| 14:04 | mefesto | amalloy: ok cool. just adding the css class to the code elements, right? |
| 14:05 | amalloy | right |
| 14:05 | clojurebot | Huh? |
| 14:05 | mefesto | <code class="expr">...</code> |
| 14:05 | Borkdude | I keep mistyping json as clojure maps... |
| 14:06 | amalloy | mefesto: https://github.com/Raynes/tryclojure/pull/16 |
| 14:08 | mefesto | amalloy: cool, i can continue with my mindless web surfing then :) |
| 14:08 | amalloy | at least until Raynes pulls and discovers this didn't work |
| 14:18 | SergioTapia | What's the difference between a Map and a Set? |
| 14:19 | SergioTapia | Can a Set be considered sort of like a C# enum? |
| 14:19 | SergioTapia | As in a list of values |
| 14:19 | amalloy | no |
| 14:19 | amalloy | not of C# enums are anything like java enums, anyway |
| 14:19 | amalloy | s/of/if |
| 14:19 | sexpbot | <amalloy> not if C# enums are anything like java enums, anyway |
| 14:20 | hiredman | well, I mean, the proper why to do enums is sets of keywords |
| 14:20 | hiredman | but you don't actually have sets of the keywords |
| 14:21 | hiredman | just, this function returns one of these 4 keywords (would could said as "this functions returns one of this set of keywords") |
| 14:21 | SergioTapia | Are you referring to Clojure: "but you don't actually have sets of the keywords" |
| 14:21 | amalloy | SergioTapia: sets are just...sets, from math. a collection of unique values. you can do any collection operations on them, more or less, and they preserve uniqueness |
| 14:22 | raek | a set is a collection that contains values unordered and without duplicates |
| 14:22 | raek | ,#{:a :b :c} |
| 14:22 | clojurebot | #{:a :c :b} |
| 14:22 | SergioTapia | So it IS like a C# enum. Thanks! :) Just trying to fit things together. |
| 14:22 | raek | ,(conj #{:a :b :c} :d) |
| 14:22 | clojurebot | #{:a :c :b :d} |
| 14:22 | raek | ,(conj #{:a :b :c} :a) |
| 14:22 | clojurebot | #{:a :c :b} |
| 14:22 | hiredman | http://www.codeproject.com/KB/recipes/sets.aspx |
| 14:22 | hiredman | poor guys |
| 14:23 | SergioTapia | > 28 Mar 2004 |
| 14:23 | hsbot | Not in scope: data constructor `Mar' |
| 14:23 | SergioTapia | .net 3.5 now has the HashSet class fyi. ;) |
| 14:24 | hiredman | well, there you go, that is what a set is |
| 14:24 | SergioTapia | k |
| 14:24 | hiredman | who let in hsbot? |
| 14:25 | raek | SergioTapia: I think you are confusing types and values |
| 14:26 | SergioTapia | Are you familiar with C#? If you're not you probably aren't understand my comparison. |
| 14:27 | amalloy | SergioTapia: so stop making comparisons to C#, and instead say something about what a set is |
| 14:27 | SergioTapia | I asked so I could make some association to something I'm familiar with. |
| 14:28 | amalloy | indeed, and that's great |
| 14:29 | amalloy | but if you ask "is this like a framble" and someone says "i don't know what a framble is, but it behaves like so", your response of "aha, so it's a lot like a framble" leaves us all wondering whether you've missed something |
| 14:30 | SergioTapia | I don't see where you could get confused. If someone says it does X, and I say, as so it behaves just like Foo. You can safely assume that X indeed behaves like Foo. |
| 14:31 | amalloy | whatever, if you're satisfied |
| 14:31 | SergioTapia | of course |
| 14:39 | thorwil | so C# hashsets are like frambles, cool. |
| 14:40 | amalloy | thorwil: that's explicitly spelled out in the doxygen :) |
| 14:59 | SergioTapia | Hehe. I'm stuck trying to get a working Fibonacci sequencer. |
| 15:00 | SergioTapia | I was always TERRIBLE with math problems. |
| 15:02 | mids | what is a framble? |
| 15:05 | SergioTapia | It's like a set |
| 15:05 | amalloy | it's a metasyntactic variable :P |
| 15:05 | hiredman | clojurebot: framble is a macguffin |
| 15:05 | clojurebot | In Ordnung |
| 15:05 | hiredman | framble? |
| 15:05 | clojurebot | framble is a macguffin |
| 15:07 | TimMc | SergioTapia: "You can safely assume that X indeed behaves like Foo." <-- I have no idea who you are.... so no, I can't assume that. |
| 15:07 | SergioTapia | Late to the party |
| 15:07 | SergioTapia | -10 points. |
| 15:08 | TimMc | SergioTapia: Anyway, here's all you need to know: http://clojure.org/data_structures#Data%20Structures-Sets |
| 15:08 | SergioTapia | Any help? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5688822/how-can-i-generate-the-fibonacci-sequence-using-clojure |
| 15:08 | TimMc | SergioTapia: Chiding someone for reading the backlog and answering your ill-formed questions: -30 points from Hufflepuff. |
| 15:08 | amalloy | $google fibonacci clojure rosetta |
| 15:08 | sexpbot | First out of 46 results is: Fibonacci sequence - Rosetta Code |
| 15:08 | sexpbot | http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Fibonacci_sequence |
| 15:09 | amalloy | SergioTapia: ^ is badass |
| 15:09 | SergioTapia | Clojure 1.2.0 |
| 15:09 | SergioTapia | java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args (4) passed to: helloworld$fibonacci (helloworld.clj:0) |
| 15:09 | SergioTapia | 1:1 user=> #<Namespace src.helloworld> |
| 15:09 | SergioTapia | 1:2 src.helloworld=> |
| 15:09 | SergioTapia | Thanks, let me check that out. |
| 15:09 | amalloy | SergioTapia: i think you passed the wrong number of arguments |
| 15:10 | SergioTapia | But I count two, let me draw some ASCII. :D |
| 15:10 | SergioTapia | (defn fibonacci[a b] (println a b (fibonacci (+ b 1) a + b))) |
| 15:10 | amalloy | *cough* a + b |
| 15:10 | SergioTapia | |----------| |----------| |
| 15:11 | SergioTapia | ugh. Fail. Didn't draw correctly. Anyways, Are you saying a +b does not eval to a single value? |
| 15:11 | amalloy | um no. notice you wrote (+ b 1)? |
| 15:11 | SergioTapia | Yeah, that's 1 parameter, and the 'a+b' should be the second, no? |
| 15:12 | amalloy | why didn't you write b+1? |
| 15:12 | SergioTapia | I'm new and Try-Clojure showed me that's how you do it. |
| 15:12 | SergioTapia | So this would be the same: |
| 15:12 | SergioTapia | (fibonacci (b + 1) (a + b)) |
| 15:12 | SergioTapia | ? |
| 15:12 | amalloy | no, it would not be the same, it would actually work |
| 15:12 | amalloy | er |
| 15:12 | amalloy | man |
| 15:13 | amalloy | sorry didn't read very well |
| 15:13 | amalloy | &(+ 1 2) |
| 15:13 | sexpbot | ⟹ 3 |
| 15:13 | amalloy | &(1 + 2) |
| 15:13 | sexpbot | java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Integer cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn |
| 15:13 | amalloy | you see the difference there? |
| 15:14 | SergioTapia | Yes, I see it. What's strange now is that I'm not getting your exception... I'm getting this: |
| 15:14 | SergioTapia | EOF while reading (helloworld.clj:5) |
| 15:14 | amalloy | unbalanced parens |
| 15:14 | ssideris | SergioTapia: check your parentheses |
| 15:14 | SergioTapia | Ah NOW I'm getting that correct exception. :) |
| 15:14 | amalloy | ssideris: better: use an editor that does that for you :) |
| 15:14 | SergioTapia | I'm using eclipse, strange that it missed that single parens. |
| 15:15 | TimMc | SergioTapia: I believe you mentioned familiarity with emacs -- I highly recommend paredit mode. |
| 15:15 | ssideris | amalloy: check your parentheses by using the latest hi-tech parentheses balancing mechanisms :-D |
| 15:16 | SergioTapia | Sold Seperately (tm |
| 15:16 | SergioTapia | *see what I did there?* |
| 15:16 | ssideris | oh since we're talking about emacs: is there a command that tells it "balance the open statement by adding any parens necessary"? |
| 15:17 | TimMc | ssideris: paredit |
| 15:17 | TimMc | and the command is "(" :-P |
| 15:17 | ssideris | TimMc: I'd rather have emacs do it _afterwards_ |
| 15:18 | amalloy | TimMc: that doesn't seem accurate to me. paredit doesn't let you get into that state |
| 15:18 | SergioTapia | By the way, what does this line do? |
| 15:18 | SergioTapia | (ns src.helloworld) |
| 15:18 | ssideris | amalloy: exactly |
| 15:18 | SergioTapia | It was added automatically to my clojure project on Eclipse. |
| 15:18 | TimMc | SergioTapia: That declares a namespace for your vars to live in. |
| 15:18 | amalloy | ssideris: you can't easily, because once there's a dangling ( it's hard for it to know where the closing ) should go |
| 15:18 | SergioTapia | 'ns' meaning Namespace? |
| 15:19 | TimMc | SergioTapia: Exactly. |
| 15:19 | amalloy | but if you don't have paredit on, you can just pound ) yourself until it says "mismatched parenthesis" |
| 15:19 | hiredman | amalloy: can have issues with [ and { |
| 15:19 | TimMc | SergioTapia: CHeck out the top of this file I'm working on for an example: https://github.com/timmc/CS4300-hw6/blob/master/src/hw6/tracer.clj |
| 15:19 | amalloy | sure, it's not perfet |
| 15:20 | TimMc | SergioTapia: http://clojuredocs.org/clojure_core/clojure.core/ns |
| 15:21 | TimMc | amalloy: I discovered last week that typing "]" in paredit will get me to the close of the current statement regardless of whether it is a paren, square, or curly. Pretty convenient, since square bracket doesn't require shift on my keyboard. |
| 15:21 | amalloy | yep |
| 15:21 | TimMc | s/statement/expression/ >_< |
| 15:23 | SergioTapia | What language? |
| 15:23 | amalloy | c#, of course |
| 15:23 | TimMc | imperative |
| 15:24 | SergioTapia | @amalloy: C# is a most EXCELLENT language, as is Ruby. Why don't you like it? |
| 15:24 | amalloy | SergioTapia: did i say that? i didn't say that |
| 15:24 | SergioTapia | Implied it |
| 15:24 | amalloy | i filled in the blanks for TimMc |
| 15:24 | TimMc | incorrectly! |
| 15:24 | amalloy | haha sorry |
| 15:24 | amalloy | that was the language SergioTapia mentioned though |
| 15:24 | SergioTapia | LOL, did you mean Ruby then? :P |
| 15:24 | TimMc | SergioTapia: I was referring to the vocabulary of imperative programming. |
| 15:25 | SergioTapia | oh hahaha. |
| 15:26 | TimMc | Ordering values around and such... it's just not a very nice way to treat them. |
| 15:27 | SergioTapia | Ok, time for some tinkering. Is there a library that allows me to work with JSON in a clojure application? |
| 15:27 | amalloy | clojure.contrib.json, but please consider not using it if your code only needs to work with other clojure code |
| 15:28 | hiredman | clojurebot: json? |
| 15:28 | clojurebot | Titim gan éirí ort. |
| 15:28 | hiredman | clojurebot: json is <reply>http://dakrone.github.com/cheshire/ |
| 15:28 | clojurebot | In Ordnung |
| 15:28 | devn | :) |
| 15:29 | SergioTapia | Since I've used CouchDB in the past and it works with JSON (meaning any language with JSON support can work with it), I wanted to build a small lib that allows clojure apps to easily interact with CouchDB. |
| 15:30 | amalloy | clojure-couchdb exists, though i don't know how good it is |
| 15:30 | hiredman | SergioTapia: please don't |
| 15:30 | amalloy | lol |
| 15:30 | hiredman | there are at least 3 such libraries already |
| 15:30 | devn | heh |
| 15:31 | devn | The Lisp Curse |
| 15:31 | hiredman | and one of them already has 6th level forks |
| 15:31 | hiredman | a fork of a fork of a fork … |
| 15:31 | devn | so many tines |
| 15:31 | SergioTapia | @hiredman: Why? |
| 15:31 | devn | SergioTapia: because if libraries already exist, improve upon them |
| 15:32 | amalloy | oh my god http://stackoverflow.com/questions/279619/whats-your-favorite-implementation-of-producing-the-fibonacci-sequence/3286056#3286056 is the worst fibonacci implementation ever |
| 15:32 | hiredman | SergioTapia: because watching you do it will ignore me to great end as you ask for help in the channel and I will end up putting you on /ignore |
| 15:32 | devn | amalloy: on stackoverflow!? surely you jest! |
| 15:32 | Derander | SergioTapia: lisp programmers are famous for reimplementing functionality over and over, every time solving 80% of the problem |
| 15:32 | Derander | SergioTapia: you end up with 100 libraries all solving a different 80% |
| 15:32 | amalloy | devn: there's good stuff on SO. and bad stuff too, of course. this is worse than usual |
| 15:33 | devn | amalloy: the lisp curse should be required reading for any new lisp community |
| 15:33 | TimMc | amalloy: THat's amazing. |
| 15:33 | devn | http://www.winestockwebdesign.com/Essays/Lisp_Curse.html |
| 15:34 | amalloy | regarding the solution after it, i must say duff's device always makes me want to puke |
| 15:34 | SergioTapia | @hiredman: Well aren't you condescending. What the hell. |
| 15:34 | devn | SergioTapia: see the link i posted above |
| 15:35 | devn | SergioTapia: hiredman has a...way with people...so to speak, but it's hard to disagree with what he's suggesting in this case -- those libraries exist already. improve upon them. |
| 15:35 | amalloy | (inc devn) |
| 15:35 | sexpbot | ⟹ 1 |
| 15:36 | devn | SergioTapia: if you want to make this community better, that's the RightThingToDo(tm) |
| 15:36 | Derander | devn: ™ |
| 15:36 | devn | (thank you Derander) :) |
| 15:36 | Derander | ;-) |
| 15:37 | devn | SergioTapia: alternatively you might write that library as an exercise and then never put it on github. that would be acceptable, but less helpful. |
| 15:39 | devn | SergioTapia: tl;dr on the link i posted above: Lisp is so powerful everyone is a lone wolf and writes the same library but never /finishes/ them. what happens? people new to the language go poking around for a couchdb library and find 15 of them. they are all half finished. they write their own. the problem continues. |
| 15:39 | devn | this is /bad/. |
| 15:40 | TimMc | devn: So, should I not be pushing my ray tracer homework to github? |
| 15:41 | devn | TimMc: please excuse my hyperbole |
| 15:42 | TimMc | I *should* link to cray from my README, though. |
| 15:42 | devn | ^^great idea |
| 15:42 | devn | (inc TimMc) |
| 15:42 | sexpbot | ⟹ 2 |
| 15:43 | devn | (inc amalloy) ;; because he's consistently awesome. |
| 15:43 | devn | (inc amalloy) |
| 15:43 | Derander | too bad |
| 15:43 | sexpbot | ⟹ 8 |
| 15:43 | tufflax | (inc amalloy) |
| 15:43 | sexpbot | ⟹ 9 |
| 15:43 | tufflax | :P |
| 15:43 | tufflax | where's the highscore? :P |
| 15:43 | devn | (karma amallow) |
| 15:43 | devn | (karma amalloy) |
| 15:43 | devn | hmm |
| 15:44 | amalloy | $karma amalloy |
| 15:44 | amalloy | meh |
| 15:44 | TimMc | &karma amalloy |
| 15:44 | sexpbot | java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: karma in this context |
| 15:44 | amalloy | i think it's broken but i forget why |
| 15:44 | devn | so what's everyone hacking on today? |
| 15:44 | tufflax | A kompiler for java in java :S |
| 15:44 | TimMc | devn: http://i.imgur.com/ktXQ7.png <_ ray tracer, duh :-) |
| 15:44 | tufflax | compiler* |
| 15:44 | devn | tufflax: so you can write java in your java? |
| 15:44 | tufflax | yes exactly... its homework :P |
| 15:45 | devn | :) |
| 15:45 | tufflax | but when im done im gonna have like 12-week break :D |
| 15:45 | devn | worked on this a bit yesterday: https://github.com/levand/clj-soy |
| 15:46 | devn | see: http://code.google.com/closure/templates/ |
| 15:46 | amalloy | i'm looking around on the internet for People who are Wrong, and fixing it |
| 15:46 | hiredman | well irc is the place for that |
| 15:46 | amalloy | hiredman: SO is even more so |
| 15:47 | amalloy | so much wrong |
| 15:47 | devn | hello STOP someone on the internet is wrong STOP commenting on how wrong they are STOP |
| 15:48 | hiredman | SO has collapsed under the weight of People who are Wrong in to a sort of blackhole which just attracts People who are Wrong and unfortunately the cosmic censorship hypothesis doesn't apply |
| 15:49 | devn | Hanlon's Razor. |
| 15:49 | devn | Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. |
| 15:55 | Vinzent | can you explain me why (reduce entity (fn [e [k v]] (update-in e [k] inc)) entity), where entity is a map, returns last pair but not the map? |
| 15:56 | amalloy | argument order is wrong |
| 15:56 | amalloy | i think |
| 15:56 | amalloy | &(doc reduce) |
| 15:56 | sexpbot | ⟹ "([f coll] [f val coll]); f should be a function of 2 arguments. If val is not supplied, returns the result of applying f to the first 2 items in coll, then applying f to that result and the 3rd item, etc. If coll contains no items, f must accept no arguments as well... http://gist.github.com/923430 |
| 15:57 | amalloy | though it's simpler to use into/for than reduce, really: ##(into {} (for [[k v] {:a 1 :b 2]] [k (inc v)])) |
| 15:58 | amalloy | &(into {} (for [[k v] {:a 1 :b 2}] [k (inc v)])) |
| 15:58 | sexpbot | ⟹ {:a 2, :b 3} |
| 15:59 | devn | amalloy: if you want to coordinate on tidying up after the People who are Wrong, ping me links and I'll hit them |
| 16:00 | devn | as in, go to the link and correct the error, not physically hit the person |
| 16:00 | amalloy | devn: just let me know when you perfect the cross-internet electrotherapy device |
| 16:00 | Vinzent | amalloy, OMG. Thank you, it's args order. You know, i was sitting about a half hour and can't understand what's wrong with my code %) Working at night is a bad idea |
| 16:00 | devn | amalloy: if you use twitter at all, the PlanetClojure bot records clojure questions |
| 16:00 | devn | (from SO) |
| 16:00 | amalloy | devn: i know |
| 16:00 | amalloy | i just subscribe to the clojure rss feed though |
| 16:00 | devn | k just thought i'd mention it :) |
| 16:02 | Vinzent | Yes, variant with for is better, thanks again |
| 16:08 | Vinzent | One more question: is it more idiomatic to use scheme-like ->string instead of to-string? |
| 16:09 | amalloy | meh |
| 16:09 | amalloy | i see the latter more often, but i don't know that anyone feels strongly about it |
| 16:11 | LauJensen | amalloy: In the first CQL we use the -> notation, which ended up being a harder read than to/from |
| 16:12 | LauJensen | used* |
| 16:12 | amalloy | there you go, LauJensen feels strongly about it. and he's best in class :) |
| 16:12 | LauJensen | What the hell? |
| 16:13 | Vinzent | :) btw, -> notation used in the new record things, isnt it? |
| 16:31 | amalloy | Vinzent: i don't think the syntax for that is solidified yet, is it? |
| 16:32 | LauJensen | amalloy: Not sure. I would ask Rich but Im afraid such a demonstration of entitlement would provoke him to cut corporate support for Clojure as well :) |
| 17:00 | TimMc | It looks like when futures throw exceptions, they don't get printed on the console. Interesting. |
| 17:06 | raek | TimMc: if the task throws an exception, it will be stored in the future object and thrown if it is rereferenced |
| 17:07 | raek | so either you can add a (try ... (catch Throwable e (.printStackTrace e))) or use a "raw" Thread |
| 17:07 | raek | it depends on how/if you want to treat errors automatically in your application |
| 17:08 | raek | *dereferenced |
| 17:11 | TimMc | Aha... so if I never deref the future, I never see the exception. |
| 17:11 | TimMc | I really should be using a raw Thread, then. |
| 17:11 | TimMc | (I don't care about the return value.) |
| 17:12 | markoman | i have interesting problem with getting data from map |
| 17:13 | markoman | i made a paste about it if someone wants to look at it: http://pastebin.com/ahDUgCXc |
| 17:14 | markoman | in practice im not sure how to keep count of previous, current and next values (page ids) and return them when match is found |
| 17:15 | raek | markoman: what do you wish the (page-next-prev "page2" pages) call to return? |
| 17:16 | markoman | {:prev pageid :next pageid} where page ids are from args |
| 17:17 | raek | so for the case where page-id is "page2", what would those be? "page1" and "page3"? |
| 17:18 | raek | or "page1" and "section1"? |
| 17:18 | markoman | yes and what if prev next not available, then just nil is good |
| 17:18 | markoman | section or any other unmentioned are not counted at al but passed. im interested only about page type |
| 17:19 | raek | first, you can filter out all non-pages (since they are irrelevant here): (filter #(= (:dtype %) :page) coll) |
| 17:20 | markoman | possible returns would be {:prev nil :next "page2"} {:prev "page1" :next "page3"} {:prev "page2" :next nil} |
| 17:21 | raek | then you can add a dummy page at each and make a sequence of triples: (partition 3 1 (concat [{}] filtered-coll [{}])) |
| 17:21 | markoman | and maybe {nil nil} if no original page-id found. ok, filter is nice |
| 17:23 | raek | and then choose the first triple where the middle one has the correct id: (first (filter (fn [[_ p _]] (= (get-in p [:args :id]) page-id)) partitioned-coll)) |
| 17:24 | raek | and then (let [[prev current next] the-triple] {:prev (get-in prev [:args :id]), :next (get-in next [:args :id])}) |
| 17:25 | raek | but it might be easier to walk through all these triples once an construct a map from ids to ids of previous page and a map from ids to next ids |
| 17:26 | raek | the format you declare your data in does not have to be the same as the program uses to do its work |
| 17:27 | markoman | hmh... good ideas. sounds rather complicated. i was thinking if I could make a recursive calls and passing values... |
| 17:29 | markoman | yeah, other data has no meaning, just page type and id in agrs |
| 17:29 | markoman | let me test some |
| 17:33 | markoman | partition thing is nice too, but not easy to understand apart from result it creates is clear |
| 17:33 | amalloy | raek: fwiw, i like (comp #{page} :dtype) better than #(= (:dtype %) :page) |
| 17:34 | raek | amalloy: agreed :) |
| 17:36 | markoman | what is the difference there? |
| 17:40 | ataggart | the former returns :page or nil, the latter returns true or false |
| 17:44 | markoman | with keyword corrected it return same map: (comp #{:page} :dtype) so... |
| 17:49 | markoman | updated paste with current version, that gives right output: http://pastebin.com/g51z9vsx thanks guys, this gives a lot to chew |
| 18:05 | trmsw | Evening all :) I need to use ActiveX objects from a clojure application. This is horrid but entirely possible, my problem is that the ActiveX objects involved are reasonably expensive to initialise, are single-threaded, and need to be used on and off throughout the life of my app. |
| 18:06 | trmsw | I'd like to have one thread per object and keep the thread going until my application quits, passing requests / messages to it |
| 18:06 | trmsw | how can I do this in Clojure? |
| 18:07 | amalloy | wrap them up in agents? you won't get a single thread per object, but i don't htink that's really your goal anyway |
| 18:08 | trmsw | you mean the agent holds a reference to the object and requests are done on the agent? |
| 18:08 | amalloy | yes, something like that |
| 18:09 | trmsw | thing is, I really do need to keep the same thread alive |
| 18:09 | trmsw | i think. Based on my reading of this: http://danadler.com/jacob/JacobThreading.html |
| 18:13 | trmsw | on the other hand this kind of problem is completely against the clojure grain... |
| 18:23 | amalloy | trmsw: well, i'm not inclined to read that whole mess to figure out if you actually need this. but if you do, you should be able to create a future object that loops checking a blocking queue |
| 18:23 | amalloy | and passes the messages along to the activex object it wraps |
| 18:26 | trmsw | amalloy: reluctant to wade through the details of obsolete technology? That's very inconsiderate! Thanks, I will look into blocking queues. |
| 18:26 | amalloy | *laugh* |
| 18:31 | trmsw | nonetheless I have a soft spot for ActiveX and being able to script office applications, since I have to use them. |
| 18:31 | trmsw | Ok so that's perhaps a confession too many. Night |
| 18:43 | markoman | how do you use logical operator in clojure, and or namely? |
| 18:44 | markoman | (= 0 a & b) (= 0 a | b) |
| 18:44 | raek | markoman: bit operators? |
| 18:45 | markoman | no, just normal |
| 18:45 | raek | (if (and a b) ...) (if (or a b) ...) |
| 18:46 | raek | but from the example it looks like you are looking for (= 0 (bit-and a b)) (= 0 (bit-or a b)) |
| 18:46 | raek | (doing bitwise logic operations, rather than logic operations on single booleans) |
| 18:47 | markoman | (= 0 (and a b)) (= 0 (or a b)) works too? |
| 18:47 | markoman | seems to work :) thanks |
| 18:47 | raek | booeans are not integers, so those will always return false |
| 18:48 | raek | (well, assuming that a and b are booleans) |
| 18:49 | raek | ,(macroexpand-1 '(and a b)) |
| 18:49 | clojurebot | (clojure.core/let [and__3468__auto__ a] (if and__3468__auto__ (clojure.core/and b) and__3468__auto__)) |
| 18:49 | markoman | ,(= 0 (or 1 0)) |
| 18:49 | clojurebot | false |
| 18:49 | raek | 'and' and 'or' are just syntactic sugar for writing nested ifs |
| 18:50 | raek | 1 is neither false nor nil, therefore it counts as true |
| 18:50 | raek | so (or 1 0) short circuits and returns 1 |
| 18:51 | markoman | oh, so how do you compare say strings in this case? |
| 18:51 | markoman | ,(= "0" (or "1" "0")) |
| 18:51 | clojurebot | false |
| 18:51 | raek | what do you want to check for? if a string is either value a or b? |
| 18:52 | markoman | yes |
| 18:52 | raek | you can't write that condition like that |
| 18:52 | raek | you have to write something like (or (= a 0) (= b 0)) |
| 18:53 | raek | (or (= s "foo") (= s "bar")) |
| 18:53 | mreynolds | raek: Wouldn't case work here? |
| 18:53 | markoman | i was figuring, either or outside or inside (=) ... |
| 18:54 | mreynolds | (case s "foo" (...) "bar" (....) (etc)) ? |
| 18:54 | raek | if you simply want to do a certain thing if a value is either a or b, you can also write is as (if (#{a b} x) ...) |
| 18:55 | raek | mreynolds: if you want to do different things when the string is "foo" and "bar", then yes |
| 18:55 | mreynolds | raek: Ahhh, I got it. So, that statement you wrote, that creates a set and the set acts as a function to test for membership of x? |
| 18:56 | raek | yes |
| 18:56 | mreynolds | Hot damn that's nice |
| 18:56 | raek | same as (contains? #{a b} x) |
| 18:56 | markoman | now it looks like what I was after |
| 18:57 | raek | markoman: or always mean the same thing. it has no special parsing when it occurs in a = |
| 18:57 | markoman | i see |
| 19:06 | amalloy | markoman: if you want to test which of several groups a value falls into, you can do it similarly with condp: ##(condp #(%1 %2) 'a '#{x y} "x or y", '#{a b} "a or b", "none of these") |
| 19:06 | sexpbot | ⟹ "a or b" |
| 19:08 | markoman | hmh how did it actually return a or b, not x or y? |
| 19:08 | amalloy_afk | markoman: the value it was testing against was 'a |
| 19:09 | markoman | oh yes, there it is |
| 19:09 | amalloy_afk | it tried ##('#{x y} 'a), saw that was nil, then tried ##('#{a b} 'a) and it was true |
| 19:09 | sexpbot | ((quote #{y x}) (quote a)) ⟹ nil |
| 19:09 | sexpbot | ((quote #{a b}) (quote a)) ⟹ a |
| 19:13 | markoman | yes, nice things. but now my head need to meet a pillow |
| 19:13 | markoman | 2am and counting |
| 21:10 | chrissbx | How again does one look up the definition for the symbol at cursor in the clojure slime? |
| 21:33 | technomancy | chrissbx: M-. |
| 21:34 | technomancy | swank-clojure's readme has the goods on that. |
| 21:42 | chrissbx | Thanks! |
| 22:18 | ataggart | am i misreading the docs or does compojure muddle the distinction between parts of the url path and the query parameters? |
