#clojure – 2011-02-23

2011-02-23

00:00	Sgeo	Erm, (recur)
00:00	amalloy	Sgeo: yes, given your substitution there :P
00:01	amalloy	but uhm, wouldn't it be easier to just try it? ##(#(if (zero? %) "done!" (recur (dec %)))) 5)
00:01	sexpbot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args (0) passed to: sandbox6385$eval8665$fn
00:01	amalloy	feh. matching parens in irc is apparently too hard for me
00:02	amalloy	(#(if (zero? %) "done!" (recur (dec %))) 5)
00:10	Sgeo	How often is partial used with -> ?
00:18	Sgeo	"If a pure function mutates some local data in order to produce an immutable return value, is that ok?
00:18	Sgeo	"
00:18	Sgeo	Sounds ST monadish
00:18	Sgeo	Although maybe this is different
00:29	tibbe	Was there ever a discussion about the pros/cons of providing O(1) size() for maps? i.e. it costs a little bit of performance to do so.
00:32	amalloy	tibbe: i'm not even sure that's the case, since maps have to track their size in order to decide when to repartition the hash bucket
00:32	amalloy	(for persistent hashes this is probably still true, though quite possibly the details are different)
00:33	tibbe	I was thinking of PersistentHashMap in particular
00:33	amalloy	tibbe: link me to the source?
00:33	tibbe	amalloy: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/PersistentHashMap.java
00:34	tibbe	amalloy: the PHM stores the count next to the root node
00:34	tibbe	amalloy: functions that might modify the size return an indicator up the call chain to indicate if they have done so (so the count can be updated)
00:35	amalloy	fair enough
00:36	amalloy	i wouldn't be surprised if O(1) size was provided to mirror java's Map interface, which is often used with the assumption that size is O(1)
00:36	tibbe	amalloy: right
00:37	amalloy	and it doesn't seem to cost much performance
00:37	amalloy	i guess i'm just speculating, and it sounds like you've done all the interesting speculation already :)
00:38	tibbe	amalloy: The reason I'm asking is that I tried to add it to my Haskell implementation and it costs about 3% for lookups and 6% for inserts/deletes
00:38	tibbe	amalloy: and I'm trying to figure out if it's worth it
00:39	tibbe	also adds a bit of code complexity
00:39	amalloy	tibbe: have you looked at chouser's finger trees? an interesting example of a tree structure that needs to track size in order to be useful
00:40	tibbe	amalloy: no, but we do have finger trees in Haskell that does that
00:40	amalloy	yes, i suppose we did rather steal the idea
00:40	tibbe	amalloy: size balanced trees use it too
00:40	tibbe	so in those cases you get O(1) size for free
00:41	tibbe	amalloy: we call it borrowing among friends :)
00:41	amalloy	either way i don't plan to give it back
00:42	tibbe	amalloy: heh
00:44	Sgeo	In order to make a thread, do I have to deal with Java?
00:57	amalloy	&@(future (Thread/sleep 3000) (println "no"))
00:57	sexpbot	⟹ nil
00:57	amalloy	&@(future (Thread/sleep 2000) "no")
00:57	sexpbot	⟹ "no"
00:57	Sgeo__	What's the &@?
00:58	amalloy	& gets sexpbot involved
00:58	amalloy	@ derefs the future object
00:58	Sgeo__	&(#(if (zero? %) "done!" (recur (dec %))) 5)
00:58	sexpbot	⟹ "done!"
00:58	Sgeo__	What's with that thing at the beginning?
00:58	amalloy	the arrow?
00:59	Sgeo__	It doesn't show up for me :(
01:00	amalloy	use a font with unicode support :P
01:00	amalloy	or in your unicode-supporting repl, try (char 0x27e9)
01:11	Sgeo__	I suppose there's nothing in Clojure that's quite like .NET's event framework? Does the JVM have an equivalent?
01:14	amalloy	er, there's swing/awt
01:16	Sgeo__	How does one hook into a Swing/AWT event, and can I do a similar thing for custom events in my own application?
01:19	amalloy	i think you can do something similar, but (a) it's afaik rare and i haven't done it in a long time, and (b) in a functional language like clojure it's pretty easy to roll your own, or find a clojure library that does this already
01:27	amalloy	if .net excites you, you can see how clojureclr is coming along
01:35	Sgeo__	Just thinking about it loosely, not too carefully, but I think the trickiest part is automatically wrapping what needs to be wrapped while still allowing it to be TCO'd... I ... hm
01:52	polypus	anybody know how to override a static method with gen-class?
02:00	sattvik	polypus: It's impossible. Static methods belong to a class and cannot be inherited.
02:08	Sgeo__	http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/msg/2ad59d1c4bb165ff are Clojure's agents basically actors?
02:13	polypus	sattvik: ty
02:17	Sgeo__	IIRC, Scala has some weird issue where private static methods can't be called by instances of the class, iirc
02:17	Sgeo__	Can I assume Clojure doesn't have that issue? (It wouldn't make sense for it to, I guess)
02:39	Sgeo__	All these random tools for Clojure due to it being JVM. Ant and a Java IDE etc. etc.
02:39	Sgeo__	It's a lot considering that I just want a language to toy around with
02:53	scottj	you don't have to use any of that if you don't want to
02:58	Sgeo	Aren't null values generally considered nasty in functional languages?
02:59	raek	Sgeo: I don't think you can generate non-public methods from clojure. (after all, gen-class is intended to be used when you need to make clojure callable from java, so it's not something you use very often)
02:59	raek	(there are simpler ways of doing interop too)
03:00	scottj	Sgeo: probably but it's part of java
03:16	stirfoo	Sgeo: there is a video where Hickey (the author of clojure) explains the coping mechinism he employed trying to implement common lisp's t and nil, and scheme's #t and #f and how this mapped to Java.
03:17	stirfoo	It's an interesting discussion, but I can't remember the exact video.
03:54	__name__	good morning
04:07	fliebel	__name__: morning
05:25	fliebel	Hm, if ClojureCLR would work on Mono, one could run it one MonoTouch, I imagine.
06:18	clgv	fliebel: doesn't it work on Mono? I guess there is a decent probability that it will
06:25	fliebel	clgv: I tried… It has a weird dependency, and doesn;t compile.
06:25	clgv	fliebel: can you AOT compile a clojure project on MS .NET? then you could take the binary and execute it on mono
06:26	clgv	that might work even if you dont get the development environment running under Mono
06:26	clgv	provided you ship all needed .Net assemblies
06:26	fliebel	clgv: Do you happen to have one laying around? I don;t feel like dusting of some windows box right now.
06:27	clgv	not here. but at home
06:27	clgv	but I didnt try ClojureCLR at all, yet
06:28	fliebel	Who maintains ClojureCLR?
06:28	clgv	it's one entry on my list "Nice to try in future" ;)
06:29	fliebel	oh, ther is a binary distribution!
06:29	clgv	that could work ;)
06:30	clgv	the question is what language features are used. if it is only .NET 2.0 or 3.0, I guess Mono can handle it
06:30	fliebel	once MacPorts has finished doing its thing, I'll install Mono, and give it a try.
06:31	fliebel	There's a 4.0 and a 3.5 distribution
06:34	fliebel	How do I def a dynamic var?
06:34	clgv	in C#?
06:35	fliebel	no, Clojure
06:35	fliebel	1.3
06:35	clgv	no idea, I am still in the past 1.2 ;)
06:35	Chousuke	wasn't it (def ^:dynamic foo)?
06:35	fliebel	could well be :)
06:36	Chousuke	I guess that should be foo :P
06:53	zoldar	what is the way to stop aleph server without restarting the whole repl?
06:54	fliebel	What is a good way to make a bunch of functions that can use another variable function? Should I pass the function around? (verbose) Do some binding trick? (hacky) Something else?
06:54	fliebel	zoldar: I think Aleph returns a function when you start it, calling that stops it again.
06:54	zoldar	fliebel, thanks!
06:56	fliebel	Hm, binding doesn't even work… Any ideas how to do this in a clean way?
06:57	zoldar	fliebel, what do you mean by a variable function ?
06:57	fliebel	well, it can be a different function sometimes.
06:57	fliebel	so I have funcion x calling, y, but sometimes i want it to use z instead.
06:59	Chousuke	passing it around would probably be the most "functional" solution but you can use an atom too.
07:00	fliebel	Chousuke: Why an atom? I was hoping that binding a var would work, but it doesn't.
07:00	Chousuke	hm
07:01	Chousuke	binding should work, as long as the var is dynamic.
07:01	Chousuke	you have several options, each having different properties :)
07:01	fliebel	I'm doing (binding [y z] (x)) and it happily goes on to use y.
07:02	Chousuke	is y a dynamic var?
07:02	fliebel	yea
07:02	Chousuke	then I dunno, maybe x needs to be one too :/
07:02	Chousuke	I'm not quite up to date on 1.3
07:05	fliebel	I think it's because x is defined outside of binding.
07:05	raek	have you tried recompiling x after you made y dynamic?
07:06	raek	I think the call is compiled in a different way if the var is dynamic
07:07	fliebel	raek: What do you mean 'recompiling'?
07:07	fliebel	example: https://gist.github.com/840338
07:07	raek	revaluating the defn form
07:09	raek	fliebel: https://gist.github.com/840340
07:09	fliebel	raek: this is really creapy… https://gist.github.com/840338
07:10	raek	hrm
07:11	raek	yes, a function call seems to compile to different byte code when the var is dynamic
07:13	fliebel	… I don't get it. The definitions of c where the same.
07:13	fliebel	*x
07:13	fliebel	Only difference is htat one was defined before the binding call
07:13	raek	fliebel: did you evaluate this exactly in the order of the gist?
07:14	fliebel	I think so, but I'll try again.
07:14	Chousuke	fliebel: can you reproduce that with a clean repl?
07:14	Chousuke	fliebel: it could always be a bug. :)
07:17	fliebel	Can't reproduce...
07:18	raek	I think you did something like (defn y ...) (defn x ...) (defn ^{:dynamic true} y ...)
07:18	fliebel	yea..
07:18	raek	at least that would explain it. otherwise, this is a creepy bug.
07:19	fliebel	No, I did define it non-dynamic first.
07:19	fliebel1	But then dynamic, and then did a binding
07:19	Chousuke	yeah, you need to define all functions using y after you've defined y dynamic
07:20	fliebel1	right
07:20	Chousuke	otherwise you'll get weird behaviour
07:20	raek	hrm. maybe this means that (declare foo) (defn bar ... (foo ...) ...) (defn foo ...) won't work either
07:21	fliebel1	this is reproducable: https://gist.github.com/840338
07:22	fliebel1	raek: Can't you make dynamic declarations?
07:22	raek	hrm. maybe (declare ^:dynamic foo) would work...
07:24	fliebel1	But still, this is not what I'm doing in my real code, and it exhibits the same behavior.
07:26	Chousuke	fliebel1: that test case is expected behaviour I think
07:26	fliebel1	I do (def ^:dynamic full-adder-o (addfn 2)), and then define a few functions using that.
07:27	Cozey	,({12 :foo} (Short/parseShort "12"))
07:27	clojurebot	nil
07:27	Cozey	Is this expected? I just spent an hour stalking this behaviour
07:27	fliebel1	Cozey: That would work in 1.4, but not 1.2
07:27	fliebel1	1.3
07:27	Cozey	is 1.3 stable?
07:28	fliebel1	no
07:28	Cozey	mhm
07:28	fliebel1	well, not by name. It runs stable for me :)
07:29	Cozey	I wonder if I should just do conversions to Integer, or switch to 1.3, since there might be more surprises like this
07:29	fliebel1	raek, Chousuke: My real code manages to keep using the old value even with #'full-adder-o
07:30	raek	fliebel1: and you have reevaluated all defns that use the dynamic var?
07:30	raek	,({12 :foo} (int (Short/parseShort "12")))
07:30	clojurebot	:foo
07:30	fliebel1	raek: I have never defined them using a static var ;)
07:30	raek	ok, then that's strange
07:31	zoldar	I'm trying to setup a simple websocket echo server using aleph. First "registration" goes fine, but server doesn't broadcast any messages that go after it (checked with wireshark). What am I doing wrong? http://paste.lisp.org/display/119913
07:31	fliebel1	or.. maybe cake kept them around secretly...
07:31	fliebel1	no :(
07:32	Chousuke	how about laziness?
07:32	Chousuke	you're not binding around a map call or anything?
07:33	fliebel1	Chousuke: No… but… let me see :s
07:34	fliebel1	yea, laziness. I hadn't even realized (logo.minikanren/)run was lazy
07:45	tscheibl	hi there
07:46	AWizzArd_	Hallo tscheibl.
07:47	octe	how do those with-transaction or with-connection macros/function work?
07:50	ejackson	acto: they call (.close x) in a finally block
07:50	octe	i mean, how do they keep a connection in some kind of context that all the function calls inside have access to?
07:54	rata_	octe: a binding block?
07:57	octe	hmm
07:57	octe	i guess i should look at the code :)
07:58	ejackson	octe: yeah I always figured it was a dynamic var
07:59	octe	it creates a db binding it seems
08:00	octe	which is thread-local, right?
08:00	ejackson	yp
08:02	octe	hmm, i want to transform a list with this structure: [{:name "foo" :value "bar" :group "grp1"} {:name "foo" :value "bar2" :group "grp2"} {:name "baz" :value "boo" :group "grp1"}] into something like -> {:grp1 {:foo "bar" :baz "boo"} :grp2 {:foo "bar2"}}
08:03	octe	any pointers?
08:03	raek	sounds like a job for reduce
08:04	raek	(reduce function-explained-later {} the-list)
08:05	raek	(defn function-explained-later [acc {:keys [name value group]}] (update-in acc [group] (assoc name value)))
08:06	octe	ah, yes
08:06	octe	thanks
08:06	raek	,(reduce (fn [acc {:keys [name value group]}] (update-in acc [group] assoc name value)) {} [{:name "foo" :value "bar" :group "grp1"} {:name "foo" :value "bar2" :group "grp2"} {:name "baz" :value "boo" :group "grp1"}])
08:06	clojurebot	{"grp2" {"foo" "bar2"}, "grp1" {"baz" "boo", "foo" "bar"}}
08:07	raek	octe: the parens around assoc in my first example should be removed
08:07	raek	you can call (keyword name) on the name too
08:08	tscheibl	,
08:08	clojurebot	EOF while reading
08:08	tscheibl	,(doseq [x [[:js :text/javascript] [:css :text/css] [:xhtml :application/xhtml+xml]]] (intern ns (symbol (as-str "wrap-" (x 0))) (fn [handler] (wrap-content-type handler (x 1)))))
08:08	clojurebot	DENIED
08:08	tscheibl	is this bad?.. i mean .. it works
08:09	Chousuke	looks like you should use a macro instead.
08:09	tscheibl	it autogenerates the functions wrap-js wrap-css and wrap-xhtml
08:10	Chousuke	yeah. macros are generally better for that
08:10	rata_	tscheibl: yes, a macro seems better suited for that, as all the information you need is available at compile time
08:10	tscheibl	hmm ok.. i will try
08:10	raek	(defmacro defmime [name type] `(defn ~(symbol (str "wrap-" name)) [handler#] (wrap-content-type handler# ~type)))
08:11	tscheibl	ok...
08:11	raek	and then (defmime js :text/javascript) (defmime css :text/css) (defmime xhtml :application/xhtml+xml)
08:12	raek	tscheibl: istead of x, (x 0) and (x 1) in the code, you can write [name type], name and type
08:13	tscheibl	yeah.. looks more concise
08:14	tscheibl	thx
08:17	xkb	hi
08:18	xkb	I'm working on a tank game, based on the ants simulation. I'd like to know if there is a way to start an agent from within another agent?
08:18	xkb	I'd like to model the bullets the tank fires as an agent
08:20	Chousuke	sounds like you'd end up with lots of agents :/
08:21	xkb	true
08:21	Chousuke	How about a global "bullets" data structure (in a ref) instead and just have the tank agent add to it, then periodically run a function to update the bullet positions.
08:22	xkb	so the tank agent would encapsulate "the grid" + a list of bullets?
08:22	Chousuke	nah, the tank agent can be separate from the bullet ref
08:23	Chousuke	after all, the tank has nothing to do with the bullet after it's been fired
08:23	xkb	ah because the list of bullets is global
08:23	xkb	a tank now is (agent [x y])
08:23	xkb	and [x y] may contain a tankrecord
08:23	xkb	with direction, barrel direction etc
08:23	Cozey	What's a better idea: use keywords or strings for session keys in Compojure?
08:24	Chousuke	of course the bullet may need to know the tank it came from, for scoring
08:24	Chousuke	but that's about it
08:24	xkb	Chousuke: interesting idea
08:24	tscheibl	@raek and what about this, to get rid of the redundant defmimewrapper call?
08:24	xkb	I was trying to spawn an agent with each "fire", but that doesnt work somehow
08:24	tscheibl	,(doseq [x [['js :text/javascript] ['css :text/css] ['xhtml :application/xhtml+xml]]] (defmimewrapper (x 0) (x 1)))
08:24	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: defmimewrapper in this context
08:24	Chousuke	if you have all the bullets in the same data structure, it'll be a lot easier to update them all in sync
08:25	xkb	indeed
08:25	Chousuke	and to run collision detection
08:25	xkb	that should be quite easy actually: the world is a grid, and each gridcell only has one occupant
08:25	xkb	so either wall, tank or bullet
08:26	Chousuke	of course, you might get performance issues due to low granularity but you won't know that until you code and test it :P
08:26	xkb	hehe
08:26	Chousuke	and if it turns out to be too slow then you can make it more complicated
08:27	xkb	so if I add the bullet to a central list, how would I dispatch a function to it?
08:27	Chousuke	a function?
08:27	xkb	just thinking out loud
08:27	xkb	yes
08:27	Chousuke	you mean (dosync (alter bullet-ref update-bullet-positions) ...)?
08:28	xkb	normally I'd do something like this: (dorun (map #(send % move) bulletlist))
08:28	xkb	but the bulletlist changes
08:28	rata_	tscheibl: again, use the [name type] destructuring instead of (x 0) and (x 1)
08:28	xkb	where bulletlist contains bullet agents
08:29	rata_	tscheibl: (doseq [[name type] [['js :text/javascript] ['css :text/css] ['xhtml :application/xhtml+xml]]] (defmimewrapper name type))
08:29	Chousuke	xkb: that's the nice thing about having just one mutable thing. you'll get the entire bullet list as an immutable thing, and calculate a new bullet list from that
08:29	Chousuke	xkb: no need to worry about the head of the list changing before the tail :)
08:29	rata_	tscheibl: so seems cleaner to me
08:29	raek	tscheibl: you'd need to put the doseq in a macro too: (defmacro defmimewrappers [m] (cons 'do (for [[name type] m] `(defmimewrapper name type))))
08:30	xkb	hmm
08:30	Chousuke	raek: missing a couple unquotes.
08:30	raek	eh. very true.
08:30	xkb	I think I'm just gonna try it :)
08:30	xkb	usually works best when learning
08:31	raek	(defmacro defmimewrappers [m] (cons 'do (for [[name type] m] `(defmimewrapper ~name ~type))))
08:31	Chousuke	xkb: the rule of thumb is that the fewer mutable things you have in your program, the easier it is for you
08:31	xkb	Chousuke: yeah, that's why I started with just the cell on the grid a tank was on, or was about to move to.
08:33	Thumper_	/wc
08:40	tscheibl	@raek: thx very much... I see I'm just at the beginning of getting a grip on the mechanics of Clojure :)
08:43	clgv	"the mechanics of clojure" sounds like a book title ;)
08:44	Fossi	and like one i'd buy ;)
08:47	tscheibl	and "the inner mechanics of clojure" :) as the logical sequel
09:05	Scriptor	tscheibl: I would get that in a heartbeat
09:39	rata_	what's the function that transforms "regex" into #"regex"?
09:42	cemerick	rata_: re-pattern
09:42	rata_	thanks cemerick =)
09:59	TimMc	,'#"foo"
09:59	clojurebot	#"foo"
09:59	TimMc	hrm
10:00	Fossi	foo is foo is foo
10:00	TimMc	I was hoping I could get the expansion.
10:00	TimMc	,'~foo
10:00	clojurebot	(clojure.core/unquote foo)
10:00	TimMc	like that
10:01	ejackson	foo is foo is foo, but in France we call it LeFoo.
10:01	pdk	does gaston come with it
10:02	clgv	,#'"foo"
10:02	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.String cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Symbol
10:02	clgv	;)
10:03	clgv	what expansion should a string have?
10:07	rata_	clgv: #"foo" is not a string
10:08	clgv	oh right ;)
10:08	clgv	,#"foo"
10:09	clojurebot	#"foo"
10:09	clgv	,(type #"foo")
10:09	clojurebot	java.util.regex.Pattern
10:10	clgv	I guess clojure simply prints out every pattern like this. so you dont see anything else
10:11	TimMc	How do I collapse truthy and falsey values to true and false?
10:11	TimMc	$findfn nil false
10:11	sexpbot	[clojure.core/keyword? clojure.core/chunked-seq? clojure.core/sequential? clojure.core/fn? clojure.core/not= clojure.core/string? clojure.core/sorted? clojure.core/false? clojure.core/true? clojure.core/symbol? clojure.core/number? clojure.core/integer? clojure.core/... http://gist.github.com/840520
10:11	TimMc	sexpbot: You're back!
10:12	clgv	he was gone?
10:12	Raynes	He left?
10:12	clgv	$seen sexpbot
10:12	sexpbot	sexpbot was last seen joining on :#jiraph 12 hours and 26 minutes ago.
10:12	Raynes	My logs tell me that amalloy restarted him last night for some reason, but I'm not certain why or how long he was gone.
10:12	clgv	lol thats where he was ;)
10:13	TimMc	,(boolean nil)
10:13	clojurebot	false
10:13	TimMc	,(boolean 5)
10:13	clojurebot	true
10:13	TimMc	\o/
10:16	TimMc	Question: I'm making an undo/redo manager, called History. (I'm abstracting it from my existing program.) It has undo? and redo? accessors, but...
10:16	TimMc	...should undo and redo, when called on a fresh History, throw an exception or return the unchanged object?
10:17	clgv	are you working immutable?
10:17	TimMc	It is a defrecord, so yeah.
10:18	clgv	fresh history = empty history?
10:18	TimMc	yeah
10:18	TimMc	Empty undo and redo buffers.
10:19	clgv	I need an organization chart: the history does contain the state of the whole program?
10:19	TimMc	Each is just a list acting as a stack. There's also the current state.
10:19	TimMc	It's just the state of the user's data.
10:19	TimMc	Not the current tool selection, mode, view state, etc.
10:19	clgv	ah kk. if nothing is in there simply return it unchanged
10:20	clgv	what use would you have from an exception? except that someone would have to catch it somewhere ;)
10:20	TimMc	Or it would help the client (me!) debug bad event handling and state.
10:21	clgv	but is it bad in this case?
10:22	clgv	you could also return nil as a third option ;)
10:22	TimMc	Bleh, nil propagation.
10:22	clgv	but that would only cause a deferred NullPointerException somewhere sooner or later ;)
10:23	TimMc	Yeah, which is evil and bad.
10:23	joly	If you want to do more in this situation than a no-op, you'll need to signal it somehow (exception, nil, etc.). I generally see undo ignored if there's nothing left to undo.
10:25	clgv	yeah I think it is not bad behaviour to just ignore it there. if it's really wrong you'll notice with non-empty history ;)
10:25	TimMc	It should be harmless to ignore it.
10:25	TimMc	I suppose that if the client really cares, they can check using identical?.
10:25	Fossi	emacs at least displays a "nothing to undo in this buffer"
10:25	clgv	are you doing automatic testing?
10:25	Fossi	so somebody might like to do that as well
10:28	TimMc	clgv: Not yet for that feature, but good point.
10:28	TimMc	I suppose I'll just make sure to document the behavior in that case and make sure it is detectable.
10:41	Dranik	what is the best tool for TDD in clojure?
10:41	nfma	i've been using lazytest and i am very happy with it :)
10:42	semperos	I doubt there's a "the best", but clojure.test, lazytest and midje are worth exploring
10:42	semperos	midje has some extra emacs goodness the author includes in the source
10:45	Dranik	nfma, semperos thanks!
10:49	nfma	i'm having some problem type hinting my code, so I've created an empty project with only clojure 1.2 and clojure contrib 1.2 using lein new, i start the repl and set the warn-on-reflection var to true, copy paste a bit of code http://pastebin.com/UemhjifF from the clojure.org website where they give examples of type hinting and the still the type hints are not applied... has anyone had this problem before?
10:51	semperos	just tried it myself, not seeing what you're seeing
10:51	dmiles_afk	what is the benefit of ClojureCLR over runing Clojure in IKVM?
10:52	dmiles_afk	(if it can be ran in IKVM that is)
10:52	clgv	can it?
10:52	dmiles_afk	i am sure it almost can
10:52	dmiles_afk	since most anyhting runs in IKVM now
10:53	clgv	I'd answer you get immediate direct connection to .NET ;)
10:53	nfma	semperos, are you using lein 1.3.1?
10:54	clgv	nfma: I dont get the warning with clojure 1.2.0
10:55	nfma	i have to figure out what's different...
10:55	clgv	maybe the jars ;)
10:55	nfma	my jars were downloaded automatically with leiningen
10:56	nfma	also i have the same problem with clojure 1.3 alpha 4
10:57	clgv	hm ok. I installed my jars manually to my project ;)
10:57	jcromartie	is doto still useful?
10:57	nfma	but did you get them from clojars?
10:58	clgv	nope. from clojure.org
10:58	nfma	i'll try that, thanks
10:59	semperos	nfma: I'm using Leiningen 1.4.1, Java 1.6.0_23 client vm
11:00	clgv	Leiningen 1.4.2 on Java 1.6.0_24 ;)
11:01	joly	jcromartie: I think doto is still useful if you're doing a bunch of operations with side effects on an object. Usually more for Java interop, I'd imagine
11:01	nfma	ya, no luck for me... i'll upgrade leiningen then
11:01	nfma	thanks
11:02	semperos	np
11:03	semperos	nfma: to make it simple, you might try just using the clojure jar by itself (no leiningen, just download and stick on classpath) and see if you see the same behavior
11:07	nfma	upgrading leiningen did the trick, but ya if it hadn't that's what i would have done. thanks samperos and clgv
11:13	jcromartie	wow StringTemplate is awesome
11:14	jcromartie	not a fan of the clj-stringtemplate that's out there on bitbucket though
11:32	fliebel	dnolen: hi :)
11:45	dnolen	fliebel: how's it going?
11:46	sritchie_	hey all, one quick question about lazy sequences --
11:46	sritchie_	I'm working on a cascalog app, that requires me to serialize float arrays between hadoop jobs
11:47	sritchie_	hadoop supports java.io.serializable objects, so I'm finding that I'm able to store lazy sequences in a hadoop sequencefile,f or later retrieval
11:47	sritchie_	my question is -- is this safe? what does a lazy sequence serialize with it?
12:10	fliebel	dnolen: meh, I quit after I removed the decimal logic.
12:14	dnolen	fliebel: seems like you're starting to have a good understanding of how miniKanren programs work :)
12:15	fliebel	dnolen: meh, I haven't thoroughly read and understood the last chapters, so unification is still kind of magic.
12:16	scottj	is it unidiomatic/confusing/bad to name variables that are the return value of predicates with a "?"? like (let [task? (task-exists? id)]...
12:17	fliebel	dnolen: But as a good (or at least non-moronic) functional programmer, I just threat it as a black box that does the same thing every time.
12:18	AWizzArd_	scottj: that is perfectly fine
12:18	ejackson	scottj: seems fine, or maybe is-task.
12:19	dnolen	fliebel: Unification is not so tricky, that chapter is good and clear. The monadic interleaving goal code is much trickier to understand, I thought.
12:20	fliebel	dnolen: huh, monads? :D I definitely need to learn those as well.
12:22	dnolen	fliebel: the code is monadic but I think learning monads to understand that code is overkill.
12:23	pheep	hi, is there any good example of a _bigger_ swing application?
12:24	pheep	I have a hard time managing state through several components, all tutorials on swing that I can find are just for very simple programs where all state can be hold in one map or so easily.
12:30	pheep	say, in oop terms I would have one class main window which holds an instance of a user control class and both components can change their own state. Know in clojure I would hold the state of the components in maps and this map in an atom or so, so that the map itself is immutable. But when I add the atom of the user control to the map of the main window it's not really immutable anymore.
12:31	pheep	how can I solve this?
12:32	Despite1	Are you concerned about doing nested atoms?
12:33	semperos	using atoms (and other concurrency structures) is about controlling change, not making things immutable; Clojure' data structures are already immutable
12:34	pheep	Despitel, yes, kind of.
12:35	pheep	semperos, I know that maps are immutable, however - I would not say they are logically immutable if they contain an atom, so I would prefere (atom {:a 2, :b 3}) over {:a (atom 2), :b (atom 3)} or would you suggest otherwise?
12:37	Despite1	I think using atoms as values is fine. your copy of the root map won't change, just like any other immutable structure
12:37	Despite1	I could be completely wrong about that, but that's how I've been thinking of it
12:41	semperos	if holding atoms in a map is just a convenience (so you're not passing as many parameters between functions), having a map of atoms makes some sense
12:41	semperos	but consideration should be given to how you're needing to update the state
12:42	Licenser	greetinga
12:44	Despite1	Actually, since these are interconnected UI elements, wouldn't you want updates to them to be synchronized? In which case, you'd need a collection of refs.
12:44	Despite1	Which is more effort.
12:50	scottj	how would you guys write this differently, use exceptions/state/monads? (if-not (valid1? a) :invalid1 (let [b (foo a)] (if-not (valid2? b) :invalid2 (if-not (valid3? b) :invalid3 ... (do (something with a) :ok)))))
12:53	pheep	for single components that do not nest I actually handled it this way: if some event occurs, for example if a button is clicked, I read the required control-propertys(for example the text of a textbox) and pass them together with the state-map to some function. For example if I have a (let [state (atom {:name ""})] .. I would do then (add-action-listener some-btn (fn [e] (swap! state set-name (.getText name-txt))) where (defn set-name
12:53	Licenser	clj-swing alows cuppeling refs/atoms with ui elements
12:55	amalloy	Despite1: you are in fact completely wrong about using atoms as values :)
12:56	rata_	scottj: at least this is less nested: (if-not (valid1? a) :invalid1 (let [b (foo a)] (cond (not (valid2? b)) :invalid2 (not (valid3? b)) :invalid3 ... :else (do-something-with a))))
12:56	pheep	Licenser, is clj-swing generically usable with arbritary swing components? I never really looked at it but it seemed to me to be just for some specific swing components?
12:56	amalloy	"your" copy of the root map won't change: it will still point to the same atoms, but those atoms will have changing values
12:58	Licenser	pheep: yes and no :) it wrapps special ones but it can interact with every swing component, since clj-swing adds no special wrappers/data structures arond thing
12:58	Licenser	s
12:59	Despite1	Hmm, I could see how that might be trouble
12:59	pheep	Licenser, are there any examples or introductory documents?
13:00	Licenser	there is an example in the github repo: https://github.com/Licenser/clj-swing/blob/master/src/clj_swing/example.clj
13:01	Licenser	I know it's not much :(
13:02	Licenser	Another question to annoy you all :) I was trying to work with Sharepoint and clojure/Java, now I have found an example for java and usually translating code works pretty well - sadly I fail to translate this into any kind of clojure -.-
13:02	pheep	is there also an example of the state thing in it?
13:03	Licenser	grid-bag example has states
13:04	Licenser	This line: ((BindingProvider) port).getRequestContext().put(BindingProvider.USERNAME_PROPERTY, userName);
13:04	Licenser	is a particular problem since I can't figure out how to do the typecast in clojure and sadly it really is needed
13:04	Licenser	http://davidsit.wordpress.com/2010/02/10/reading-a-sharepoint-list-with-java-tutorial/ <- entire example
13:05	Licenser	I kind of hoped that clojures reflections would solve the tyecasting but since port in this example is some kind of odd proxy class it fails horriblie
13:09	amalloy	Licenser: agreed that it shouldn't be necessary, but ##(doc cast)
13:09	sexpbot	⟹ "([c x]); Throws a ClassCastException if x is not a c, else returns x."
13:09	amalloy	hm. that's not useful
13:09	Licenser	I googled like a crazy man but I did not find any way to force a cast in clojure
13:09	Licenser	not even by typehinting stuff
13:14	Chousuke	hm, I thought typehinting should work in cases like those?
13:14	Licenser	Didn't for me, it called me out bla.bla.bla$Proxy doe not support function getRequestContext
13:22	Licenser	I wonder if I've found something clojure has not covered yet -.-
13:23	sy`	Licenser: The nature of god!
13:26	Licenser	The nature of god is to find things not covered yet?
13:27	sy`	Licenser: Yes, for only the language of Lisp can discover it.
13:27	sy`	lol
13:27	Licenser	heh
13:28	pheep	what does this cast in java anyway? I can't find the documentation of the library.
13:30	Licenser	Yes it is horribly documented
13:31	pheep	because in my understanding of java it needs to be some down-cast and that should make no problems but maybe I'm wrong about the javapart. However - are you sure that you do get the right object, have you tried this example in java before?
13:31	Licenser	pheep: the service.getListsSoap() call returns some kind of proxy object
13:31	Licenser	getRequestContext is a function of the BindingProvider interface
13:32	Licenser	now that proxy class for some reason refuses to allow me to call getRequestContext on it
13:33	Licenser	it is part of the whole java-ws thing I think
13:33	pheep	how would a proxy object be casted to another object, I thought there were no custom casts in java?
13:33	Licenser	pheep: I don't know
13:34	amalloy	Licenser: http://download.oracle.com/javase/1.3/docs/guide/reflection/proxy.html#methods maybe?
13:35	amalloy	i've never seen anyone actually expose a proxy class to the public; i get the feeling it's a bad idea
13:36	Licenser	http://download.oracle.com/javase/6/docs/api/javax/xml/ws/Service.html#getPort(javax.xml.namespace.QName,%20java.lang.Class,%20javax.xml.ws.WebServiceFeature...)
13:36	Licenser	that is the function creating it
13:39	Licenser	proxies are evil but yes amalloy that is the rough point where to look
13:40	Licenser	also the methods for the proxy don't seem to let you call a function -.-
13:56	pppaul	hey peoples!
13:58	pppaul	i want to do side effects on a seq, using sh... i'm doing it with map and dorun (dorun (map (special effects...))) but it gives me back a list, i would rather not get anything back, what should i use inplace of map?
13:59	patrkris	,(doc doall)
13:59	clojurebot	"([coll] [n coll]); When lazy sequences are produced via functions that have side effects, any effects other than those needed to produce the first element in the seq do not occur until the seq is co...
14:00	patrkris	nevermind
14:00	spewn	,(dorun (map #(* 2 %) (range 10)))
14:00	clojurebot	nil
14:00	spewn	,(doall (map #(* 2 %) (range 10)))
14:00	clojurebot	(0 2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18)
14:00	spewn	pppaul: dorun shouldn't be giving back anything...
14:00	pppaul	um
14:01	pppaul	it's giving me back (nil nil...)
14:01	pppaul	i'm mapping something to a map of dorun
14:01	pppaul	(map ( dorun (map
14:01	amalloy	pppaul: it's not giving you anything back
14:01	amalloy	it may be printing several nils or something, but it's certainly not returning them
14:02	pppaul	yeah... ok, i guess that's good
14:02	pppaul	:D
14:02	tscheibl	i had the same thought
14:03	tscheibl	,(dorun (map #(println "haha" %) (range 10)))
14:03	clojurebot	haha 0
14:03	clojurebot	haha 1
14:03	clojurebot	haha 2
14:03	clojurebot	haha 3
14:03	clojurebot	haha 4
14:03	clojurebot	haha 5
14:03	clojurebot	haha 6
14:03	clojurebot	haha 7
14:03	clojurebot	haha 8
14:03	clojurebot	haha 9
14:03	tscheibl	oops... I'm evil
14:03	Licenser	yes
14:03	amalloy	&(dorun (map #(println "haha" %) (range 3)))
14:03	sexpbot	⟹ haha 0 haha 1 haha 2 nil
14:03	rmarianski	good thing that was a 10 and not 100 :)
14:03	tscheibl	:)
14:03	amalloy	tscheibl: nah, clojurebot is evil :)
14:03	pppaul	should try 100
14:04	tscheibl	10000000000000000
14:04	tscheibl	nah.. better 9999999999999999999
14:04	rmarianski	perhaps iterate inc?
14:04	pppaul	,(dorun (map #(println "haha" %) (iterate inc)))
14:04	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args (1) passed to: core$iterate
14:05	amalloy	you're looking for (range) :P
14:05	pdk	you have to pass an initial value after the fn to iterate
14:05	pppaul	,(dorun (map #(println "haha" %) (infinity)))
14:05	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: infinity in this context
14:06	pdk	dude
14:06	pppaul	,(iterate inc 0)
14:06	clojurebot	(0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ...)
14:06	pppaul	woo
14:06	pdk	,(dorun (map #(println "haha
14:06	clojurebot	EOF while reading string
14:06	pdk	,(dorun (map #(println "haha" %) (range))
14:06	clojurebot	EOF while reading
14:06	pdk	,(dorun (map #(println "haha" %) (range)))
14:06	pppaul	,(range)
14:06	clojurebot	Execution Timed Out
14:07	clojurebot	Execution Timed Out
14:07	pppaul	hmm
14:07	pppaul	,(dorun (map #(println "haha" %) (iterate inc 0)))
14:07	clojurebot	Execution Timed Out
14:07	pppaul	guess it wont work
14:08	pppaul	,(make pizza)
14:08	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: make in this context
14:09	tscheibl	(loop [] (recur)) ...
14:10	tscheibl	don't try that at home
14:11	tscheibl	don't you people have repls at home? :)
14:12	TimMc	heh
14:12	pppaul	i don't want my repl to be full of the shit i put in this chat
14:13	pppaul	what if someone saw?
14:13	amalloy	tscheibl: my repl is always too busy computing (->> (range) (filter even?) (filter odd?) (first))
14:13	mefesto	do the bots watch out for loops like that?
14:14	mefesto	or loops in general not allowed by them?
14:14	pppaul	,(#(%)#(%))
14:14	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args (0) passed to: sandbox$eval2053$fn
14:14	amalloy	mefesto: they timeout
14:14	amalloy	&(->> (range) (filter even?) (filter odd?) (first))
14:15	sexpbot	Execution Timed Out!
14:15	pppaul	hmmm
14:15	pppaul	the race is on!
14:15	mefesto	nice
14:15	pppaul	&(->> (range) (filter even?) (filter odd?) (first))
14:15	pdk	it tries to actually generate that infinite sequence before doing anything with it
14:15	pppaul	,(->> (range) (filter even?) (filter odd?) (first))
14:15	sexpbot	Execution Timed Out!
14:15	clojurebot	Execution Timed Out
14:15	pdk	toss a take in there and you'd be fine
14:15	amalloy	pdk: what?
14:16	pppaul	on your marks, get set, go!
14:16	pppaul	,(->> (range) (filter even?) (filter odd?) (first))
14:16	pppaul	&(->> (range) (filter even?) (filter odd?) (first))
14:16	sexpbot	Execution Timed Out!
14:16	clojurebot	Execution Timed Out
14:16	pppaul	winner!
14:16	tscheibl	botrace?
14:16	pdk	well rather
14:16	pdk	the filters just keep on chugging on the seq until it runs out of time
14:17	amalloy	pdk: there's a (first) at the end. that's equivalent to (take 1)
14:17	amalloy	(for purposes of this discussion)
14:17	pdk	,(filter even? (range))
14:17	clojurebot	Execution Timed Out
14:18	pdk	the first gets called after it's been run through two filters
14:18	pdk	and filters are the rub
14:18	pdk	the filters
14:18	amalloy	yes. so? those two filters are intentionally constructed to never return any elements
14:18	amalloy	that's the joke
14:19	amalloy	"find me the first even number that is also odd"
14:20	pppaul	actually, it reads find all even numbers, such that all odd numbers from those even numbers, give me the first one
14:20	pppaul	i didn't know how to end that right
14:26	tscheibl	amalloy: your problem is solvable at infinity
14:26	amalloy	tscheibl: that's why i haven't killed my repl yet. i'm waiting for it to finish
14:27	tscheibl	amalloy: yeah that's science :)
14:28	pppaul	if someone runs that on their machine, will it seg fault or run forever?
14:28	tscheibl	it will segfault forever... lol
14:28	pppaul	is filter holding onto the head?
14:29	pppaul	or range?
14:29	pppaul	amalloy, you should try it
14:29	tscheibl	heak
14:29	tscheibl	heap
14:31	amalloy	pppaul: of course not. if filter and range hung onto the heads of their seqs laziness would be impossible like ever
14:33	pppaul	well, who's being lazy? the person who made filter or ranage, or the person who uses them?
14:37	amalloy	hm. i want a function that's not quite like distinct: constrain a list so that each element appears at most N times. i can roll my own with reduce, but that seems like overkill; does one exist?
14:45	amalloy	if anyone is interested, i just wrote that at https://gist.github.com/ac577998a404164266aa
15:01	tscheibl	nice one
15:02	amalloy	tscheibl: now, go write a lazy version
15:10	markskilbeck	Is there a way to force clojure to output a complete number, not its scientific representation.
15:12	amalloy	markskilbeck: like a floating-point decimal number? don't use floating point if you want perfect accuracy
15:12	tscheibl	amalloy: nah... I'm far too lazy :)
15:12	markskilbeck	,(* 5.63 (expt 10 7)
15:12	clojurebot	EOF while reading
15:12	markskilbeck	)
15:12	markskilbeck	,(* 5.63 (expt 10 7))
15:12	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: expt in this context
15:13	markskilbeck	Well, I'd like the complete number output. Possible, or not?
15:13	raek	markskilbeck: like this ##(double 1/3)
15:13	sexpbot	⟹ 0.3333333333333333
15:13	raek	markskilbeck: or like this ##(format "%f" 1e9)
15:13	sexpbot	⟹ "1000000000.000000"
15:13	markskilbeck	raek: ah. Thanks.
15:14	amalloy	&(format "%f" 1e30)
15:14	sexpbot	⟹ "1000000000000000000000000000000.000000"
15:14	amalloy	neat
15:14	raek	&1e30
15:14	sexpbot	⟹ 1.0E30
15:15	amalloy	&(format "%f" (+ 1e30 1e-30))
15:15	sexpbot	⟹ "1000000000000000000000000000000.000000"
15:15	amalloy	you of course still can't get "complete" output
15:15	pppaul	anyone use lein and uberjar?
15:17	amalloy	wow, i just realized the amazing potential for bad code that comes from stuff like (let [inc (fnil inc 0)] ...)
15:17	pppaul	i'm getting errors when compiling my uberjar
15:18	pppaul	let inc????
15:18	pppaul	inc is defined already
15:18	amalloy	pppaul: yep, so?
15:18	raek	pppaul: what kind of errors?
15:18	amalloy	&(let [inc dec] (inc 10))
15:18	sexpbot	⟹ 9
15:18	pppaul	can't find my main
15:19	pppaul	in project: :main mkdirs.core)
15:19	pppaul	and in that file: (defn -main [& args]...)
15:19	pppaul	i tested it in my repl, and it works... when i build the jar it can't find my main
15:19	amalloy	it just happened i wanted to call inc on several things, and treat nils as if they were zero: (let [inc (fnil inc 0)]) solves my problem quite nicely, but it made me realize how horrible it could be if i redefined built-ins to things that are less clear
15:19	raek	pppaul: you have a namespace like (ns my-proj.main (:gen-class)) (defn -main [...] ...) and :main my-proj.main, :aot [my-proj.main] in the project.clj?
15:20	amalloy	raek: :main implies :aot for the main namespace, doesn't it?
15:20	pppaul	oh crap, i put my main too high in the file
15:21	raek	amalloy: hrm. it probaly does...
15:22	tscheibl	how can I check if a symbol exists without using exceptions?
15:22	amalloy	tscheibl: every symbol exists. you mean var?
15:22	amalloy	&(resolve 'clojure.core 'test)
15:22	sexpbot	java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! resolve is bad!
15:22	amalloy	,(resolve 'clojure.core 'test)
15:22	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args (2) passed to: core$resolve
15:22	raek	tscheibl: if there exists a var with that name in the curret namespace? 'resolve'
15:22	raek	amalloy: you beat me to it... :)
15:23	raek	,(resolve 'clojure.core/test)
15:23	clojurebot	#'clojure.core/test
15:23	amalloy	raek: except i'm no good at it, apparently :P
15:23	raek	that returns nil if there is no such var
15:23	raek	,(resolve 'conj)
15:23	clojurebot	#'clojure.core/conj
15:23	tscheibl	ah coll.. works, thx
15:23	tscheibl	cool
15:23	raek	,(resolve 'does-not-exist)
15:23	clojurebot	nil
15:32	mattmitchell	anyone know of a library that can parse a query string into a hash-map/vector?
15:33	mattmitchell	i'm building a redirect string in a ring app
15:33	amalloy	mattmitchell: ring has a wrap-params middleware or something like that
15:34	mattmitchell	and in my tests.. i don't want to use regular expressions for every param
15:34	mattmitchell	amalloy: i saw that but not sure how i could use that for my test
15:35	TimMc	,(#(%1 %1) #(%1 %1))
15:35	clojurebot	java.lang.StackOverflowError
15:35	TimMc	That was fast.
15:35	TimMc	&(#(%1 %1) #(%1 %1))
15:35	sexpbot	java.lang.StackOverflowError
15:36	TimMc	OK, my new #1 beef with Clojure is this error: "nth not supported on this type: Double"
15:36	TimMc	...Double being Point2D$Double. >_<
15:36	amalloy	TimMc: so stop trying to destructure Doubles
15:36	TimMc	:-P
15:36	amalloy	they're not clojure persistent objects
15:37	TimMc	Oh! No, what I mean is, I thought it was referring to j.l.Double
15:37	pppaul	anyone deal with shell-out?
15:37	TimMc	especially given that I can't import Double directly out of Point2D.
15:38	amalloy	TimMc: i believe there's something called import-static in contrib
15:40	pppaul	i'm using clojure.contrib.shell-out, works fine via swank, but when i make an uberjar it doesn't work anymore. only command i'm using is mkdir
15:43	pppaul	oh
15:43	pppaul	that would break things bad
15:43	jweiss	well, it certainly breaks when i attempt to call map or meta in said function
15:43	raek	pppaul: sounds strange. also, there's clojure.java.shell since 1.2
15:44	pppaul	i looked at java.shell... i had problems with it.... i'll see about getting it working in my code
15:44	Licenser	anyone dealed with a Proxy yet?
15:48	pppaul	switched to clojure.java.shell... same problem
15:48	pppaul	i tried doing (println (sh "mkdir" %))... and it prints nothing
15:49	puredanger	given a seq of maps, someone MUST have written a function that can sort the seq by a combination of fields in the maps. (sort-by :field maps) works great for one field and I will write the next step if I must but I will gladly re-use an existing one if I've missed it
15:49	jcromartie	LauJensen: does cql allow operations inside a transaction
15:49	pppaul	no dirs are made :(
15:49	pppaul	it's like it's not even being called
15:50	amalloy	puredanger: ummmm, depending on what you mean by "sort by a combination of fields", you can (sort-by (juxt :field1 :field2) maps)
15:50	puredanger	amalloy: ah.... I was thinking comp and that it wouldn't work. got my brain on sideways
15:51	amalloy	puredanger: well, juxt won't put them in any meaningful order, i suspect, because (< [:a :b] [4 10]) won't sort well
15:51	amalloy	but it's a start
15:52	puredanger	amalloy: yeah...
15:52	raek	pppaul: is the % a string?
15:52	pppaul	yes
15:52	pppaul	my code works 100% in the repl
15:52	pppaul	just not with lein run, or uberjar
15:53	raek	could it be a problem with laziness?
15:53	pppaul	... how so?
15:53	pppaul	it runs in the repl
15:53	raek	,(do (map println ["one" "two" "three"]) :foo)
15:53	clojurebot	:foo
15:54	raek	the printlns are never evaluated
15:54	pppaul	(->> dir-strs
15:54	pppaul	(map #(sh "mkdir" %))
15:54	pppaul	dorun))
15:54	pppaul	that's my code for making dirs
15:55	raek	and if you replace dorun with pr, what is printed?
15:55	LauJensen	jcromartie: technically it should work with contrib.sql/transaction, but Ive had some issues with it, so hang on until I announce dbsync on twitter
15:55	pppaul	nothing
15:56	raek	it should print something... at least "()"
15:56	jcromartie	LauJensen: I ask because we have many constraints in our existing DB, and it's hard to manage some inserts without transactions
15:56	jcromartie	although it should be possible as long as they are in the right order
15:56	amalloy	pppaul: (apply sh "mkdir" dir-strs) seems like an easier way to do it
15:56	raek	pppaul: I suspect the problem lies at some point outside the ->> form
15:56	LauJensen	jcromartie: I understand. Take a look at contribs transaction, rewrite it for CQL and send me a patch and I'll be happy to merge it as soon as I get the time
15:56	jcromartie	:P
15:57	LauJensen	jcromartie: make sure that you add some tests and run 'cake test --integration=true' before you submit
15:57	pppaul	i just changed my code to use clojure.java.shell... i don't know if that is breaking things
16:01	pppaul	the java.shell isn't working like contrib.shell-out
16:01	pppaul	:....(
16:06	pppaul	got it working in the repl again
16:08	simard	how can I do this, but correctly ? (binding [out (System/out)] (prn "test"))
16:08	simard	ie.. java.io.PrintStream cannot be cast to java.io.Writer
16:09	zztr	simard: bind prn instead?
16:09	mefesto	(binding [out System/out] ...)
16:09	brehaut	simard: with-out-str, with-out-append-writer, with-out-writer perhaps ?
16:09	mefesto	simard: you are trying to execute System/out as a function
16:10	mefesto	ugh, also needs to be a writer, not a PrintStream?
16:11	brehaut	perhaps have a look at clojure.java.io ?
16:13	mefesto	(binding [out (io/writer System/out)] (prn "test"))
16:13	mefesto	where io is clojure.java.io
16:13	mefesto	also, out points to System/out by default, doesn't it?
16:14	raek	you might need to wrap the the writer in a PrintWriter: (PrintWriter. (io/writer System/out :encoding "UTF-8"))
16:14	simard	mefesto: thanks, but no, not when "lein swank"
16:14	octe	i'm transforming some ugly nested json to a string and i got this code: http://paste.lisp.org/display/119936
16:14	octe	but it looks pretty ugly
16:14	octe	maybe there's a better way?
16:15	mefesto	simard: when i use that in slime-repl with the binding it prints to console where i launched lein swank
16:15	raek	hrm. (alter-var-root #'out (fn [out] (def the-root-out out) out))
16:16	simard	mefesto: yes, it's working now with the binding
16:16	simard	thanks
16:16	mefesto	simard: without the binding it prints within slime-repl
16:17	simard	I have a slime-repl right now
16:18	simard	I M-x slime-connect and all I have is a slime-events buffer
16:18	simard	(and I see the result of evaluations in the minibuffer)
16:19	simard	"I have a slime-repl right now" should have been, I don't have a slime repl
16:19	mefesto	hmm, when i slime-connect i get a slime-repl clojure buffer
16:19	simard	hmm<
16:20	mefesto	I'm using clojure 1.2 and swank-clojure 1.3.0-SNAPSHOT
16:21	simard	mefesto: me too, maybe it's my slime version
16:21	simard	I'll try to update it first
16:24	pppaul	using java.shell fixed my problem, thanks
16:25	pppaul	amalloy, i'm using (apply (partial sh "mkdir") dir-strs) thanks for the suggestion
16:25	simard	mefesto: you don't use inferior-lisp-program do you, it's really a slime-connect to lein swank ?
16:27	pppaul	so, when i run my uberjar, the program doesn't finish executing. is there something like (exit) that i need to use?
16:27	simard	mefesto: updating my slime did the trick
16:27	pppaul	i tried ending my main function with 0, but that did nothing
16:28	puredanger	pppaul: no, do a thread-dump and see what's left (ctrl-break on win, ctrl-\ on *nix)
16:28	pppaul	thanks
16:28	puredanger	pppaul: if you're using agents, the thread-pools are non-daemon threads and prevent exit, you'll need a call to (shutdown-agents)
16:29	pppaul	i'm not using agents
16:29	pppaul	not doing anything fancy in this program
16:30	pppaul	just some string manip, and calls to shell
16:30	pppaul	i don't really understand the output of the threaddump
16:32	mefesto	pppaul: if you want to force exit you can use (System/exit retcode)
16:32	pppaul	ok, i'll do that
16:32	pppaul	thanks
16:33	mefesto	pppaul: maybe that shell lib leaves a thread or process running?
16:34	pppaul	hmmm
16:34	pppaul	maybe
16:34	pppaul	system/exit isn't working
16:34	mefesto	(System/exit 0) hangs?
16:34	pppaul	yup
16:35	pppaul	unless lein isn't running my new code that i saved
16:35	pppaul	oops
16:36	pppaul	forgot to remake the jar
16:36	pppaul	works! :D
16:36	pppaul	thanks a lot
16:36	mefesto	sweet :)
16:36	mefesto	pppaul: what shell lib are you using?
16:37	pppaul	clojure.java.shell
16:37	mefesto	c.c.shell ?
16:37	mefesto	oh ok
16:37	pppaul	it's more sophisticated than clojure.contrib.shell-out... but i don't use it's features
16:59	mattmitchell	hello?
19:27	kcl	exit
19:50	Derander	my fingers are cold
19:51	amalloy	Derander: write some php. all the typing should warm you up
19:51	TimMc	amalloy: Pssh, PHP? Java is the ticket.
19:51	TimMc	Just don't use autocompletion.
19:52	amalloy	java is verbose, but it's not full of completely unnecessary $ and -> tokens
19:53	Derander	JustLotsOfGoofyTypeNamesThatAreReallyLongAbstractFactoriesConstructorMachines
19:56	brehaut	Derander: i've never seen java code that looks like that. Its always <OvrlySpfcNs:ApproximationOfALongClassname withSomeVerbose="attributes"><pojo:Param name="blah blah"><…
19:56	Derander	oh right, of course.
19:56	Derander	heh. microsoft hungarian is fun too
20:26	tscheibl	(cljs (on-ready
20:26	tscheibl	(-> (js* ($ "body"))
20:26	tscheibl	(#(js* (.append (clj %) (.text ($ "<div>") "HUHU") )))
20:26	tscheibl	(#(js* (.append (clj %) (.text ($ "<div>") "HAHA") ))))))))
20:27	tscheibl	hmm... that's not really more readable than pure javascript+jQuery...
20:27	tscheibl	it's scriptjure. btw
20:30	tscheibl	I'll go to bed now... it's 2:30 AM, bye
22:22	Sgeo_	I asked yesterday, but I don't think I got a response. How's Clojure-on-Clojure going?
22:27	Sgeo_	Clojure has no continuations? That's no fun
22:28	spewn	Sgeo_: I haven't taken the time to read this yet, but http://dosync.posterous.com/continuation-passing-style-in-clojure
22:28	Sgeo_	What happened to Try Clojure?
22:43	Sgeo_	Is it reasonable to like Clojure for everything except the Javaness, and despite that part?
22:43	Sgeo_	And certain ... consequences of that
22:44	pdk	entirely
22:44	pdk	you're trying to have a full fledged lisp coexist with a language that well
22:44	pdk	yknow
22:44	pdk	brought us primitive boxing
22:45	Sgeo_	I once asked in #scala if learning Scala was reasonable given lack of interest in JVM compatibility. They said no, due to the compromises that Scala had to make
22:45	Sgeo_	Or well, one person said no
22:46	pdk	scala's type system is probably more advanced than java's at any rate
22:47	Sgeo_	A criticism I've seen of Scala is that it's like a modern C++... just a lot of bolted on features
22:47	Sgeo_	They made the same criticism of Falcon, I think, except stronger
22:47	Sgeo_	They pretty much actively made fun of Falcon
22:48	pdk	falcon doesnt ring a bell
22:48	Sgeo_	http://falconpl.org/
22:48	Sgeo_	I am not responsible for any brain-damage
22:55	tomoj	it's hard to take the language seriously with a website like that
22:58	Scriptor	the language isn't too bad
22:58	Scriptor	er
22:58	Scriptor	the *website
22:59	Scriptor	for one thing, it actually provides example code ;)
22:59	tomoj	reading some of the examples is enough to make me want to keep reading even though the website is terrible
23:01	tomoj	right, it's not too bad
23:02	tomoj	the curve of actual design quality vs. take-serious-ability is steep
23:04	Scriptor	best to go with minimalism, for langs
23:04	tomoj	I can't even come close to pulling off minimalism :(
23:04	Scriptor	just follow io's site :)
23:05	Sgeo_	I'm kind of excited about Seph
23:06	tomoj	even they have a FOUC
23:07	tomoj	though.. github is currently totally unstyled and unusable in my browser
23:10	Sgeo_	:(:(
23:11	Sgeo_	(-> somecol (partial filter sometest) (partial map sometransform))
23:12	Sgeo_	Those partials are somewhat ugly
23:12	amalloy	Sgeo_: and also not doing what you want
23:12	Sgeo_	And yeah, sure, it could be written (map sometransform (filter sometest somecol))
23:12	Sgeo_	amalloy, hmm?
23:12	amalloy	try it
23:13	amalloy	&(macroexpand-all '(-> somecol (partial filter sometest) (partial map sometransform)))
23:13	sexpbot	⟹ (partial (partial somecol filter sometest) map sometransform)
23:14	amalloy	you could do it with -> and partial if you wanted, but that's crazy. instead you want ##(macroexpand-all '(->> somecol (filter sometest) (map sometransform)))
23:14	sexpbot	⟹ (map sometransform (filter sometest somecol))
23:15	amalloy	c'est bon?
23:16	bartj	If I have a (def blah ["x" "y"])
23:17	bartj	and I refer blah through out the code
23:17	bartj	now, I require blah to be called as a function
23:17	bartj	is this possible to do in Clojure ?
23:18	amalloy	bartj: huh? you just write (blah 0), which results in "x"
23:20	Sgeo_	amalloy, I'm confused
23:21	Sgeo_	Oh, "second item" vs "last item"
23:21	amalloy	indeed. and you probably want to understand why your partial-based solution doesn't work
23:22	Sgeo_	Because it makes (map somecol sometransform) and (filter thatmap sometest) instead of what I want?
23:23	amalloy	no, that's what would happen if you used -> without any partials
23:23	bartj	amalloy, wrong question
23:24	amalloy	(-> foo (partial bar baz)) turns into (partial foo bar baz), not an invocation of (partial bar baz) with argument foo
23:24	Sgeo_	Oh, I don't need (or want) partial at all????
23:24	Sgeo_	So forms, not functions
23:24	amalloy	indeed
23:24	Sgeo_	That's rather convenient
23:25	amalloy	that's the idea :)
23:25	Sgeo_	And if I wanted to use a named function, nothing wrong with () around it I guess
23:25	amalloy	Sgeo_: you don't have to at all
23:25	amalloy	&(-> 1 inc inc inc)
23:25	sexpbot	⟹ 4
23:26	Sgeo_	What if I want to include forms some of which should have their second position filled in, some of which their last?
23:27	amalloy	&(macroexpand-all '(-> foo (bar 1) (->> (baz 10))))
23:27	sexpbot	⟹ (baz 10 (bar foo 1))
23:27	Sgeo_	I missed anyhing after Sgeo_> Or what if I want to fill in the third position?
23:28	Sgeo_	amalloy, hah
23:28	Sgeo_	What about the inverse? Or again, what about third position
23:28	amalloy	um, i don't understand what you mean by inverse, and you really don't want to put things into the third position :P
23:29	amalloy	use (let) for your temporary bindings to make that kind of stuff more explicit
23:29	Sgeo_	Most of the things needing stuff inserted last, but something in the middle needing it inserted second
23:29	Sgeo_	I see how ->> inside -> works, but the other way around shouldn't
23:29	Sgeo_	afaict
23:30	amalloy	it won't
23:31	amalloy	you can either use one -> and a lot of ->>s, or use let, or if you don't mind some pain, (->> foo (map baz) (filter bar) (#(swap! % inc)))
23:32	Sgeo_	Ok, I think I'll stay away from the painful alternative
23:33	Sgeo_	Given that I don't understand it
23:33	Sgeo_	(fn [x] swap! x inc)
23:33	Sgeo_	OH
23:33	Sgeo_	I get it
23:33	Sgeo_	Since that () form contains the function, and it's.. I get it
23:34	Sgeo_	Although maybe some function other than swap! would have been nice >.>
23:52	sritchie	does anyone have experience with crane, or pallet, for managing hadoop clusters/
23:52	sritchie	?
23:54	hugod_	sritchie: pallet doesn't have a working crate for hadoop yet - I would be willing to help get one going though - it's been on the todo list for a long time
23:55	sritchie	hugod_: that's definitely something I'd be interested in helping with
23:56	sritchie	hugod_: I've got a cascading app that I need to get running on EC2 this week -- I'll start looking around pallet
23:57	hugod_	sritchie: the crate I started is here https://github.com/pallet/pallet-apache-crates
23:57	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.Exception: 503>
23:58	bartj	.quit
23:58	sritchie	hugod_: great, forked
23:58	sritchie	hugod_: hope I can be helpful, here!