#clojure – 2011-02-09

2011-02-09

00:00	amalloy	&(class 1)
00:00	sexpbot	⟹ java.lang.Integer
00:01	Raynes	&(type 1)
00:01	sexpbot	⟹ java.lang.Integer
00:55	cobol_expert	http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4938195/in-clojure-is-there-are-recursive-version-of-code-logging
00:55	cobol_expert	^ not mine, but i'm curious
01:08	amalloy	cobol_expert: it doesn't make sense to "automatically" apply this to every sub-function because everything is a function
01:08	amalloy	but there is a tracing feature somewhere in contrib
01:09	amalloy	http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2352020/debugging-in-clojure
01:14	arohner	is there an xml parser that returns a vector in the same format as c.c.prxml?
01:24	no_mind	I have a lazy sequence of maps, like this ({"key0" "itemvalue0"} {"key1" "itemvalue1"} {"key2" "itemvalue2"}) . I want to merge all the itemms of seq into one map. How do I do this ?
01:26	khaliG	is it normal that the order of function defns matters when using require?
01:30	khaliG	oh i see, have to use declare around that.. that's odd :/
02:07	defn	amalloy_: CDT, maybe?
02:23	khaliG	what's the idiomatic way of updating a vector in an agent?
02:24	khaliG	i can see how to add an element to it, for example, but what if you want to change one element somewhere else
02:42	scottj	how do you get the var associated with a local? does this require eval? (let [x a-var] (var x)) won't work. I want a function (defn foo [x] ...(var x))
03:15	khaliG	wth does replace do for a vector?!
03:17	scottj	? (replace {1 2} [1]) => [2]
03:17	aamar	same thing as a seq, no?
03:19	khaliG	ive been playing with it on the repl for 15 minutes and i still dont understand what it's doing..
03:20	scottj	it's like s/1/2/
03:20	scottj	search and replace
03:20	khaliG	right that's what i want to do but i cant get it to work the way i expect
03:20	scottj	paste something
03:21	khaliG	say i have a vector [1 2 3 4 5] and i want to replace the 4 with "four"
03:21	scottj	,:test
03:21	clojurebot	:test
03:22	scottj	,(replace {4 "four"} [1 2 3 4 5])
03:22	clojurebot	[1 2 3 "four" 5]
03:22	khaliG	that works, but it does something completely different with what i was trying [4 "four"]
03:23	scottj	,(doc replace)
03:23	clojurebot	"([smap coll]); Given a map of replacement pairs and a vector/collection, returns a vector/seq with any elements = a key in smap replaced with the corresponding val in smap"
03:23	scottj	note "given a map"
03:23	khaliG	map vs vector
03:23	scottj	or the name of the arg, smap
03:23	khaliG	i read that doc several times too :/
03:24	scottj	happens to the best
03:24	khaliG	i didn't parse the map as an actual map not just a collection of pairs
03:24	khaliG	scottj, thanks.
04:30	khaliG	what's the best clojure data structure/approach for this? :/
04:33	khaliG	http://www.clojure.pastebin.com/bmuwjzBt
04:36	AWizzArd	khaliG: I do this with a closure over a proxy
04:37	khaliG	AWizzArd, tried to do the same thing really
04:37	khaliG	but im stuck with finding a good mutable data structure for a table
04:37	AWizzArd	(let [data (atom nil)] (proxy [AbstractTableModel TableModelHelper] [] ...))
04:38	khaliG	AWizzArd, does your table allow user edits?
04:39	AWizzArd	And my TableModelHelper is a definterface that works directly on data, and offers getTableData, setTableData, setTableCell, clearTable, etc
04:39	khaliG	oh that is cool
04:39	khaliG	what does setTableCell do?
04:39	khaliG	as in behind the scenes
04:39	AWizzArd	My docstring says: "Resets table-data vector with 'data' and updates the table."
04:40	khaliG	so you build a whole new table?
04:40	AWizzArd	(.setTableCell my-proxy new-data)
04:40	AWizzArd	(.setTableData my-proxy new-data) I mean
04:40	AWizzArd	not Cell
04:40	AWizzArd	Yes, this builds a whole table.
04:40	khaliG	ok
04:40	AWizzArd	When the user clicks on the "Request" button it queries data from the server and can simply put it into the table.
04:40	khaliG	well if i'm only changing one cell i dont want to rebuild a whole table (just because i'm lazy)
04:40	AWizzArd	The interface gives me direct access to the atom.
04:41	AWizzArd	khaliG: exactly, that is what (setTableCell [row, column-key, data]) is for.
04:41	khaliG	how is your table stored internally?
04:42	AWizzArd	As I showed above: let [data (atom nil)]
04:42	AWizzArd	or (atom []) I had
04:42	khaliG	so you have a vector of rows?
04:42	AWizzArd	Yes.
04:43	AWizzArd	setTableData will (reset! table-data data) the atom, and it fires via (.fireTableDataChanged ^AbstractTableModel this)
04:43	khaliG	understood
04:44	AWizzArd	This approach I found to be pretty useful. May work for you.
04:44	khaliG	my tables are tiny so i dont mind doing it that way
04:44	AWizzArd	Scales very well.
04:45	AWizzArd	For huge tables however one wants handlers that can take streaming data from a web server, and updates the table on the fly and not only when all data has arrived at the client side.
04:50	khaliG	getting the feeling in clojure i wont find nice and easy to use mutable structures where i can just call a set! on them, it will be much harder than that
04:52	ejackson	khaliG: not at all - its really easy.
04:53	ejackson	khaliG: I spent yesterday banging around with JFreeChart which is the dark heart of mutability, and its tremendously easy.
04:55	AWizzArd	khaliG: What about an atom and reset! ?
04:55	AWizzArd	(let [x (atom 10)] (println x) (reset! x 55) (println x))
04:55	AWizzArd	,(let [x (atom 10)] (println x) (reset! x 55) (println x))
04:55	clojurebot	#<Atom@10463c3: 10>
04:55	clojurebot	#<Atom@10463c3: 55>
04:55	khaliG	yea i get that part
04:56	khaliG	but something like making a new vector thats different by one element at a given index?
04:56	AWizzArd	As I see it, it fits very exactly what you asked for. Only that it is called 'reset!' and not 'set!'.
04:56	khaliG	replace works on value not index
04:56	AWizzArd	,(assoc [10 20 30 40 50] 2 10000)
04:56	clojurebot	[10 20 10000 40 50]
04:57	khaliG	man i would never have guessed assoc would do that!
04:57	AWizzArd	But this is a totally different issue now. A moment ago you criticized that Clojure does not offer you a mutable data structure that you can just set!.
04:57	AWizzArd	Vectors are tries under the hood.
04:58	AWizzArd	Their key is the index in the vec.
04:59	khaliG	assoc+set will do the trick for my problem
04:59	AWizzArd	,(let [a (atom [10 20 30 40])] (println @a) (swap! a assoc 2 99) (println @a))
04:59	clojurebot	[10 20 30 40]
04:59	clojurebot	[10 20 99 40]
05:13	khaliG	assoc will become my new best friend
05:14	khaliG	yay my table reflects user input changes :)
05:37	AWizzArd	khaliG: grats
05:57	khaliG	is it possible to return an agent from a method in a proxied java class?
06:02	khaliG	doesn't look like it, not just an agent but any random method added
06:03	TobiasRaeder	morning
06:03	khaliG	morning
06:13	khaliG	AWizzArd, how did you define your helper class?
06:17	AWizzArd	khaliG: definterface
06:17	khaliG	thanks
06:20	khaliG	hard to find docs on it :/
06:28	tscheibl	is it a bug that I have to 'rm -rf classes' first before i do 'lein ring war'? .. otherwise I get some 'duplicate entry' error
06:34	khaliG	AWizzArd, do you have a small example of definterface? i've looked everywhere without any luck
06:39	khaliG	AWizzArd, nm, i figured it out
07:33	AWizzArd	khaliG: even though you figured it out, here an example of definterface: https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/clj/clojure/gvec.clj
07:33	AWizzArd	This was used for implementing (vector-of :int) & co.
08:22	jcromartie	let's say I have n students, and want to divide them into tables of m students each
08:22	jcromartie	I can get a bunch of possible tables from c.c.combinatorics/combinations
08:22	jcromartie	but that is only all tables of 5 over the whole set of students
08:28	ejackson	and you want ?
08:34	jcromartie	sets of tables which only contain different students
08:34	jcromartie	say
08:34	jcromartie	'(#{#{jim bob} #{sally sue}} #{#{jim sue} #{sally bob}} ...)
08:36	fliebel	jcromartie: I still don't get it, but I'm thinking abotu something with shuffle, partition, distinct, etc...
08:37	jcromartie	basically, given a classroom... how many seating arrangements are there
08:37	jcromartie	with a fixed table size
08:40	jcromartie	yeah I've been tinkering with this for a while but it just hasn't "clicked"
08:43	jcromartie	most of the time I come up with some insane number of possibilities
08:43	jcromartie	because I haven't limited it right
08:45	fliebel	jcromartie: Logos!
08:46	jcromartie	hm that might be a good idea, actually
08:46	jcromartie	although I think I have an algorithm, starting with the set of all possible table arrangements
08:48	fliebel	jcromartie: So, you have x persons, sitting at a 2x tables in pairs?
08:48	fliebel	no x/2
08:49	jcromartie	no
08:50	jcromartie	x persons, sitting at x/n tables in groups of n
08:53	fliebel	jcromartie: And you want to know?
08:53	jcromartie	how many ways you can arrange seats at the tables
08:54	fliebel	Without permutations of the same persons for one table, I assume?
09:00	kilo_	hi
09:01	AWizzArd	Hey kilo_.
09:01	kilo_	newbie here
09:02	AWizzArd	Welcome.
09:02	joegallo	well, welcome. and hello.
09:02	kilo_	hi AWizzArd
09:02	kilo_	thanks ! i'm planning to start of f by installing clojure box.
09:02	fliebel	jcromartie: Hm, there seem to be a lot of combinations :P
09:02	kilo_	:)
09:02	kilo_	hi
09:02	jcromartie	fliebel: yup
09:03	jcromartie	especially with 30 kids and tables of 5
09:03	jcromartie	er, 25
09:03	fliebel	(distinct (map set (repeatedly #(map set (partition 5 (shuffle (range 20)))))))
09:05	jcromartie	yeah the shuffle is the trick
09:06	fliebel	jcromartie: That would go on forever.
09:06	jcromartie	so say I have the set of unique tables
09:06	jcromartie	basically, (set (map set (c.c.combinatorics/combinations students n)))
09:07	jcromartie	that's easy
09:07	jcromartie	1.5 seconds later...
09:07	jcromartie	I have 7288 tables
09:07	fliebel	good :)
09:07	AWizzArd	kilo_: did you already see http://java.ociweb.com/mark/clojure/article.html ?
09:09	jcromartie	now from there, I've got this
09:09	jcromartie	(remove #(some % (first tables)) (rest tables))
09:09	jcromartie	which finds the rest of the potential tables for the first table
09:09	jcromartie	easy
09:10	kilo_	i got this : http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1086562
09:10	kilo_	AWizzArd: yes, got it today
09:16	fliebel	jcromartie: ##(distinct (map #(set (map set (partition 2 %))) (clojure.contrib.combinatorics/permutations (range 6))))
09:16	sexpbot	java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.contrib.combinatorics
09:17	jcromartie	permutations are too intensive, fliebel
09:17	jcromartie	http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=25!
09:17	fliebel	I see, that are a lot of permutations...
09:18	jcromartie	but I think I've got it
09:18	fliebel	jcromartie: paste?
09:18	jcromartie	starting with the combinations it's pretty easy to find a valid set for any one table
09:18	jcromartie	yeah just a minute
09:28	ejackson	jcromartie: sorry, I stepped away. Do want the number of possible combinations, or to actually realise the sets of possible combinations ?
09:28	edoloughlin	Trying to add tests to an existing leiningen project... I've tried creating $PROJDIR/test/core.clj, $PROJDIR/test/$PROJDIR/core.clj and $PROJDIR/test/$PROJDIR/test/core.clj but I'm still getting "could not locate XXX on classpath" errors. Any ideas?
09:33	ejackson	jcromartie: the former is, I think, \sum_{i=1}^{5} (5i)C5
09:33	jcromartie	hm weird
09:35	ejackson	about 72 000
09:36	jcromartie	out of memory
09:36	jcromartie	awesome
09:36	jcromartie	:P
09:37	ejackson	the factorials like to explode
09:37	khaliG	there is an algorithm for generating them lazily so you don't run out of memory
09:39	fliebel	hm, probably another dead alleyway: ##(let [s (map set (combinations (range 20) 5))] (reduce (fn [t n] (if (not-any? #(seq (clojure.set/intersection n %)) t) (conj t n) t)) [(first s)] (next s)))
09:39	sexpbot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: combinations in this context
09:46	jcromartie	that would explode in terms of computations
09:47	jcromartie	although maybe not too bad
09:47	raek	edoloughlin: how do you name the source and test namespaces? where do you put their corresponding files? what requires and uses do you have?
09:48	raek	edoloughlin: what we need to know to debug your problem would be all the 'ns' forms of your files, along with the file path for each one
09:52	jowag	Hi, in deftype, do I have to implement all methods of the chosen interface or not?
09:53	edoloughlin	raek: I'm trying to retrospectively create tests on a lein project that doesn't have any. I've just created a core.clj file in the test subdirectory - there are no other test files. Do you want a directory listing? It's all of the form $PROJ/src, $PROJ/src/controllers, $PROJ/src/domain etc. and I have $PROJ/test
09:53	jowag	e.g. is this correct? (deftype A [] IFn (invoke [this] (do something)))
09:54	edoloughlin	Sorry: that should have been $PROJ/src/myproj/controllers etc. - I omitted the top level namespace
09:57	raek	edoloughlin: there is no automatic relationship between source and test code
09:58	raek	edoloughlin: the test namespaces are ordinary namespaces containing ordinary code
09:58	edoloughlin	raek: So what does 'lein test' look for as its starting point?
09:58	raek	so it sound like there's something wrong with when you in the test namespace require/use the source namespace
09:59	raek	edoloughlin: I think it loads all source files under test/
09:59	raek	but I'm not sure, so check the lein docs on that one
09:59	edoloughlin	raek: Ok. Thanks.
09:59	raek	(I usually launch my tests straight from emacs)
10:03	fliebel	jcromartie: How is your code doing?
10:03	jcromartie	meh
10:03	jcromartie	the issue is something I failed to mention: a set of restrictions on what exactly defines a valid table
10:04	jcromartie	:P
10:04	jcromartie	there are a bunch of students who cannot sit together
10:04	jcromartie	and so by filtering on that, I get a limited number of tables
10:04	fliebel	jcromartie: Oh, this starts to look more and more as a logic programming problem ;)
10:04	jcromartie	yeah
10:04	jcromartie	but actually
10:04	jcromartie	it might be impossible to sit this particular set of restrictions
10:05	jcromartie	I think a better approach would be a Monte Carlo simulation
10:05	jcromartie	and make the restrictions less rigid
10:05	jcromartie	so you can score the seating
10:05	fliebel	jcromartie: If ti is impossible, Logos will tell you.
10:05	jcromartie	hm, nea
10:05	jcromartie	neat
10:05	jcromartie	link/
10:05	jcromartie	?
10:05	jcromartie	(https://github.com/swannodette/logos)
10:05	fliebel	$google clojure logos
10:05	sexpbot	First out of 11900 results is: Logos v0.4 - Closing in on SWI-Prolog ? - Clojure \| Google Groups
10:05	sexpbot	http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/564d7885630549db
10:06	fliebel	I ordered The Reasoned Schemer to learn this stuff :)
10:06	jcromartie	$google logos clojure
10:06	sexpbot	First out of 12000 results is: Logos v0.4 - Closing in on SWI-Prolog ? - Clojure \| Google Groups
10:07	sexpbot	http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/564d7885630549db
10:07	jcromartie	weird
10:07	jcromartie	in my browser I get a bunch of stuff about Clojure logo graphics :P
10:07	AWizzArd	(:
10:08	AWizzArd	you can try bing instead and see if that performs better
10:08	fliebel	Or DuckDuckGo, or…
10:11	jcromartie	fliebel: I'm afraid this is all greek to me
10:11	jcromartie	I've never done Prolog
10:12	fliebel	jcromartie: That is why I ordered the book… It's Italian to me. I can follow it a bit, but not write it.
10:13	jcromartie	well then maybe in that case I should say it's all Thai to me or something
10:15	fliebel	jcromartie: I think the musicians example is useful to you. If you extend that a little, you could use it to determine valid neighbors.
10:19	ejackson	jcromartie: if you can assign a score to the set of arrangements then indeed, a MC approach is a good one. You could optimise that score using simulated annealing pretty easily.
10:19	ejackson	logic programming is going to give you all the solutions, which is not what you want, you just want one that is good enough.
10:20	fliebel	ejackson: Why would logic programming do that to you? doesn't that depend entirely on how you write it?
10:21	fliebel	$google Monte Carlo simulation
10:21	sexpbot	First out of 627000 results is: Monte Carlo method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
10:21	sexpbot	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Carlo_method
10:21	ejackson	fliebel: I'm no expert, but it operates by performing a search for the complete set of suitable solutions.
10:22	clgv	ejackson: but prolog for example stops with the first valid solution and you have to use special statements to get all solutions
10:23	ejackson	clgv: i did not know that
10:23	fliebel	Hm, I don;t know about Logos, but if it does this stuff lazily, you could do (first) on it.
10:30	jcromartie	fliebel: the issue is when it gets fuzzy... say you have a set of restrictions that makes it impossible from a logic programming standpoint
10:31	ejackson	jcromartie: such as ? It sounds a lot like the Zebra problem.
10:33	jcromartie	well, let's say you really have restrictions that yield no solutions
10:33	jcromartie	it would be better, in this case, to let it be "good enough"
10:34	ejackson	then optimising a score is superior
10:34	clgv	jcromartie: if there are restriction that make you problem unsolvable - can't you do a mathematical analysis in advance to see if you can get crtieria on that?
10:34	ejackson	(as an aside http://intensivesystems.net/tutorials/logic_prog.html for the zebra problem)
10:36	jcromartie	clgv: I don't know that much math.
10:38	jcromartie	great, thanks ejackson
10:49	fliebel	Hah, when you're talking about the devil, you step on his tail :) The Reasoned Schemer just arrived :D
10:53	ejackson	fliebel: good luck, its a tough read :)
10:53	jcromartie	huh looks like http://kanren.sourceforge.net/ is pretty much broken
10:53	jcromartie	links, that is
10:53	ejackson	yeah, I had little luck with that either
10:54	fliebel	ejackson: Thanks :)
11:30	semperos1	anyone know how to get slime's M-. working on Windows? I do have an unzip utility on the path, but I still get errors
11:38	dnolen	anybody ever tried constraint logic programming in Clojure a la Mozart/Oz ? Or played around with this, http://jacop.osolpro.com/ (Java Constraint Solver)?
11:39	companion_cube	i've not played with it in clojure, but i know a bit of jacop
11:39	dnolen	companion_cube: any opinions, thoughts about it?
11:39	companion_cube	it's cool :)
11:40	companion_cube	most of the API is creating objects
11:40	dnolen	companion_cube: anything specific you used it for that you can talk about? :)
11:41	companion_cube	i did not use it, i've worked a bit with one of the guys that writes it
11:41	dnolen	companion_cube: heh, cool.
11:42	raek	letting two threads share an unsynchronized mutable object is not much different from abusing global variables
11:43	AWizzArd	right
11:43	ejackson	so it is.
11:53	gko	If I want to use SLIME for both Clojure and Common Lisp, should I really stick to ELPA's SLIME (20100404) or can use CVS version? (swank-clojure in ELPA's wants SLIME 20091016)
11:55	puredanger	anyone out there worked with emacs + lein + cdt ? I'm looking for advice on how to get emacs-cdt working with separate lein swank
11:56	puredanger	I have "lein cdt" working targeting my process in emacs with "lein swank" but I would really like to be running the cdt repl in emacs as well (maybe a separate emacs if that's easier)
11:57	puredanger	The lein cdt hooks seem to install the jdt options for lein swank such that I can't start two lein swanks as they collide on the jvm debug ports
11:57	puredanger	is there a technomancy in the house?
11:59	raek	Now I feel that I really understand what "Mutable stateful objects are the new spaghetti code" means
12:07	ejackson	raek: aren't insights like that great !
12:10	technomancy	puredanger: I haven't used cdt yet, sorry. it may have port numbers hard-coded in?
12:11	puredanger	technomancy: it does fer sure
12:11	technomancy	time for a patch then
12:11	puredanger	technomancy: yeah, maybe I'll try that. just hard to believe no one hasn't had this issue already
12:13	technomancy	I guess lots of people only keep one swank server running at once or at least don't start cdt until they need it
12:15	ohpauleez	puredanger: I use cdt with lein-cdt, but I use nailgun, sorry
12:40	cinch	technomancy: when my project.clj has a :main section and i call "lein swank", it runs the main instead of starting swank, is that normal or did i misconfigure something?
12:42	technomancy	cinch: :main should point to a namespace that contains a -main function; it shouldn't have anything happening at the top level except def/defn forms.
13:01	hv	wow! java chokes on (Double/parseDouble "2.2250738585072012e-308")
13:03	cinch	technomancy: thanks for the info. i think i found a minor bug, which happend when i had (defn -main [] ) instead of -main with a body. (brb)
13:08	khaliG	when using proxy, how do you call another method in the superclass -- i'm thinknig (.method this) which seems to compile at least
13:09	amalloy	khaliG: that sounds right to me. are you having trouble with it?
13:10	khaliG	amalloy, yeah, but it may be unrelated
13:11	raek	khaliG: that sounds right. in java, the bytecode for foo() is the same as this.foo()
13:11	fogus`	,(doc proxy-super)
13:11	clojurebot	"([meth & args]); Use to call a superclass method in the body of a proxy method. Note, expansion captures 'this"
13:13	amalloy	khaliG: https://gist.github.com/27effcd9c46a0ca6f701 works as expected
13:13	raek	ah. my utterance would be for the particular situation where you don't override that method.
13:14	amalloy	you should only need proxy-super if you want to call a superclass's method when you also override that method
13:14	fogus`	(inc amalloy)
13:14	sexpbot	⟹ 5
13:16	khaliG	yea i think my program is failing for an unrelated reason, thanks guys
13:16	amalloy	khaliG: if the superclass method you're trying to call is protected you have to jump through some hoops
13:17	khaliG	nope, not protected it's a method of AbstractTableMOdel and i'm calling it like (.fireTableChanged this)))))
13:18	khaliG	but it's not forcing a redraw of the table for some reason
13:19	khaliG	ooh, my mistake! i should have called .fireTableDataChanged
13:19	amalloy	khaliG: swing, what fun
13:19	khaliG	sweet :)
13:19	khaliG	amalloy, yes but it's much much better in clj
13:20	fogus`	"Clojure: Making Swing less repulsive since 2007"
13:21	khaliG	fogus`, well said
13:25	amalloy	Scriptor: pharen looks just enough like clojure to make me comfortable, and enough like CL to trip me up :)
13:26	Scriptor	amalloy: thansk, though I swear any CL-yness is completely accidental :p
14:00	mattmitchell	i'm using :require in my namespace, which uses the :as option to bring in a function. Is it possible to access this same :as function from another namespace?
14:01	amalloy	mattmitchell: i don't think so. you can use alias or immigrate or something, which are in contrib, but it's generally frowned on
14:01	mattmitchell	amalloy: oh really? interesting.
14:02	raek	mattmitchell: :require-:as and :use-:only only affects the namespace they occur in. to get the same effect in another namespace, you have to specify it there too.
14:02	mattmitchell	raek: ok i'll do that. thanks.
14:04	raek	the point is to let each namespace author shorten fully qualified names (like foo.bar/some-fn) to something shorter (like b/some-fn or some-fn) whatever way the author of that namespace feels like
14:07	lotia	greetings all. is there a way to have lein use the version of clojure and clojure-contrib from clones of their respective git repos?
14:07	amalloy	$google lein checkout dependency
14:07	sexpbot	First out of 1200 results is: technomancy/leiningen - GitHub
14:07	sexpbot	https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen
14:07	amalloy	bah
14:08	amalloy	anyway lotia, i think lein calls them checkout dependencies; that's about all i know, but it should be enough for you to find out how to use them
14:08	danlarkin	you can also use a SNAPSHOT, that's probably closer to what you really want
14:10	lotia	amalloy, danlarkin: thank you
14:12	raek	lotia: I think SNAPSHOT versions are what you are looking for. (unless you want a less than a few days old version or apply your own patches, in which case I would recommend using the checkouts feature)
14:13	raek	http://build.clojure.org/snapshots/org/clojure/ <-- version can be found here
14:13	lotia	raek: this is more from an i'm curious perspective rather than how would i use it for a real project perspective
14:14	raek	e.g. [org.clojure/clojure "1.3.0-SNAPSHOT"]
14:15	raek	ok.
14:15	lotia	raek: thanks
14:17	raek	SNAPSHOT = use a frequently built version, leiningen checkouts = override that with version with a checked-out/cloned version in the file system
14:20	shikaga_	Question: I have 2 files in the same directory and I include (:use class1) in the namespace of class2. But when I try to compile I get an error that says that class1.clj cannot be found in the classpath
14:20	shikaga_	What am I doing wrong?
14:22	shikaga_	What confuses me even further is that my test file created automatically by leiningen has no problem locating the file when using "lein test"
14:24	khaliG	is there a switch like construct?
14:24	amalloy	khaliG: there are cond and case, depending on what you want
14:25	khaliG	amalloy, case sounds like what i want, i have some keys and i want to eval an exp depending on key
14:27	amalloy	khaliG: there's also plain old maps: ##(let [options {:a first, :b second} type :a data [0 1 2 3]] ((options type) data))
14:27	sexpbot	⟹ 0
14:27	khaliG	very cool
14:28	amalloy	multimethods are a nice generalization of all this; case is an optimized version when all your key types are compile-time literals
14:33	raek	shikaga_: are you sure that the names of the namespaces matches the paths of the source files?
14:34	raek	shikaga_: also, you have to use their fully qualified names, even though they are in the same directory
14:36	shikaga_	Yeah
14:36	shikaga_	I think I am not fully understanding how namespaces are working
14:36	shikaga_	investigating now
14:36	shikaga_	thatnks
14:40	pdk	it's not like java where every .java file has to have a public class with the same name as its filename
14:44	amalloy	shikaga_: heh. here i am, putting off writing an article about managing clojure namespaces, and not even #clojure is a safe haven :)
14:45	rsenior`	amalloy: ping
14:45	amalloy	rsenior`: pong
14:46	Scriptor	quick question, what does clojure use internally as its hash function for hashmaps?
14:46	amalloy	Scriptor: Object.hashCode()
14:47	Scriptor	ah, thanks!
14:47	rsenior	amalloy: the issue I was talking to you about yesterday, I finally traced it down and was able to get better example code around it http://groups.google.com/group/leiningen/browse_thread/thread/cd433a9e8ac689c1
14:48	hiredman	that is not a lein issue
14:48	hiredman	that is the clojure compiler
14:49	amalloy	rsenior: weird
14:49	rsenior	really?
14:50	hiredman	lein doesn't do anything with classloaders
14:50	rsenior	when I ran it from the command line, without lein, it seemed to work ok
14:50	rsenior	doesn't compile/eval-in-project run compilation in an ant created classloader?
14:51	hiredman	no, it starts a new jvm (at least in all releases, dunno about on master)
14:51	hiredman	it does use ant to launch the new jvm, but the classloader won't be shared between them
14:54	rsenior	I'm still a little puzzled as to why it would work from the command line (passed in as -e to clojure.main, just like how Leiningen does it)
14:54	hiredman	for a simple solution to your multimethod problem, you could dispatch on the name of the class instead of the class
14:55	hiredman	rsenior: shrug
14:56	rsenior	yeah, I've talked through some workarounds with coworkers, that was one of them
14:59	khaliG	is it idiomatic to define small helper functions using let?
14:59	kryft	I read "idiotic" :P
15:00	amalloy	khaliG: yeah, that's fine
15:00	amalloy	you can use letfn if you like, though i don't
15:00	brehaut	khaliG: yes i think it is. especially for functions that closure locals but are growing large
15:01	khaliG	cool thanks
15:01	khaliG	nah i'm lazy less syntax to learn :P
15:03	amalloy	my thoughts exactly
15:13	khaliG	hm it doesnt like (. Boolean class)
15:14	amalloy	khaliG: Boolean is already the class
15:15	khaliG	oh yea, good point
15:15	amalloy	&(map class [Boolean Boolean/TYPE])
15:15	sexpbot	⟹ (java.lang.Class java.lang.Class)
15:16	amalloy	hm, not the point i intended to make.
15:16	amalloy	&[Boolean Boolean/TYPE]
15:16	sexpbot	⟹ [java.lang.Boolean boolean]
15:18	fliebel	weird… ##(class boolean)
15:18	sexpbot	⟹ clojure.core$boolean
15:18	amalloy	fliebel: boolean is a function
15:19	amalloy	&(boolean 10)
15:19	sexpbot	⟹ true
15:19	fliebel	amalloy: I know, so what did Boolean/TYPE just return?
15:19	amalloy	&(str Boolean/TYPE)
15:19	sexpbot	⟹ "boolean"
15:19	amalloy	grr
15:20	hiredman	Boolean/TYPE is used by the clojure compiler internally for the clojure readable name of the boolean primitive's class
15:20	hiredman	which is, I dunno, Z I think
15:20	amalloy	http://download.oracle.com/javase/1.4.2/docs/api/java/lang/Boolean.html#TYPE
15:20	amalloy	hiredman: yeah, i think it's Z
15:20	hiredman	,(Class/forName "Z")
15:20	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: Z
15:21	hiredman	well, I should say "type" not "class" above
15:21	fliebel	So, Boolean/TYPE is not just a symbol, but something magic for the compiler, that evaluates to a primitive?
15:22	hiredman	Boolean is a symbol too
15:22	amalloy	,(.getMethod Class "isArray" (into-array []))
15:22	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException: [Ljava.lang.Object; cannot be cast to [Ljava.lang.Class;
15:22	amalloy	,(.getMethod Class "isArray" (into-array Class []))
15:22	clojurebot	#<Method public native boolean java.lang.Class.isArray()>
15:22	hiredman	there is by default, an entry in all namespaces that maps the symbol Boolean to the class Boolean
15:23	amalloy	somehow or other you can find the class name for primitive booleans :P
15:23	anthony__	If I have an external file with a bunch of forms (def "a" 1) (def "b" 2) etc...and I want to read/eval all of them, how do I do that? (eval (read-string (slurp "file"))) only does the first one.
15:23	hiredman	there is no class for primitives though
15:23	amalloy	hiredman: yes there is
15:23	hiredman	no there isn't
15:23	hiredman	there is a type
15:24	hiredman	primitive arrays have a classname (due to the jvm sort of kind of sometimes treating arrays as objects)
15:24	hiredman	,(Class/forName "[Z")
15:24	clojurebot	[Z
15:24	hiredman	,(Class/forName "Z")
15:24	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: Z
15:24	amalloy	from the javadoc for Class: "The primitive Java types (boolean, byte, char, short, int, long, float, and double), and the keyword void are also represented as Class objects."
15:25	hiredman	that is a java specific fiction, I believe
15:25	amalloy	hiredman: kindasorta
15:26	amalloy	&(.getComponentType (class (boolean-array 2)))
15:26	sexpbot	⟹ boolean
15:26	pdk	in javaland
15:26	amalloy	is a Class object, which represents the primitive type boolean
15:27	pdk	having primitives not be able to be treated like composite objects is supposed to be a good idea for some reason
15:27	fliebel	interesting
15:27	hiredman	amalloy: it very well may be, but sexpbot is ignored, so shrug
15:27	pdk	THE PRIMITIVE BOXING ARMY MARCHES FORWARD
15:27	amalloy	,(.getComponentType (class (boolean-array 2)))
15:27	clojurebot	boolean
15:27	amalloy	pdk: i don't think anyone thinks it's a good idea, but it was a convenient idea when java was written
15:27	hiredman	,(class (.getComponentType (class (boolean-array 2))))
15:27	clojurebot	java.lang.Class
15:27	fliebel	hiredman: Why is sexpbot ignored?
15:28	amalloy	fliebel: he doesn't like sexpbot
15:28	hiredman	fliebel: it does a lot of annoying things
15:28	hiredman	at least it used to, hard to say now since it's been on ignore
15:28	amalloy	heh
15:29	amalloy	i think Raynes listens to community complaints if it does something annoying in #clojure, but of course you're entitled to ignore it
15:29	fliebel	hiredman: Only thing I ever noticed it doing without explicit command is mentioning Clojars updates.
15:29	hiredman	fliebel: that is clojurebot, unless sexpbot does that too
15:29	amalloy	no, just clojurebot
15:29	amalloy	fliebel: hang out in #sexpbot sometime. there are a lot of features that are explicitly disabled in #clojure to reduce clutter
15:30	amalloy	but anyway, this discussion was about primitive types, not the robot wars
15:31	khaliG	heh :)
15:33	fliebel	amalloy: Sorry, I was poking at hiredman to test LauJensen's statement that he is rude and insulting. False so far :) But about the primitives… Is there a way to get to Boolean/TYPE without actually using that?
15:33	amalloy	fliebel: two ways have just been demonstrated: ##(Boolean/TYPE) and ##(.getComponentType (boolean-array 0))
15:33	sexpbot	(Boolean/TYPE) ⟹ boolean
15:33	sexpbot	(.getComponentType (boolean-array 0)) java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching field found: getComponentType for class [Z
15:34	hiredman	fliebel: for what purpose?
15:34	amalloy	er
15:34	amalloy	&(.getComponentType (class (boolean-array 0)))
15:34	sexpbot	⟹ boolean
15:34	hiredman	I have been rude and insulting to LauJensen, but he deserved it
15:34	fliebel	hiredman: Curiosity, I wondered why I should write Boolean?TYPE rather than jus [B or something.
15:35	amalloy	fliebel: ^"[B" is an array of bools, not a bool
15:35	amalloy	is the typehint for an array of bools, that is
15:35	hiredman	Boolean/TYPE is readable bby the reader, [B isn't
15:35	fliebel	I see.
15:36	amalloy\|afk-fore	man
15:36	amalloy\|afk-fore	nick length limitations
15:36	hiredman	the compile may provide something like ^booleans for type hinting, it does for some of the other primitives
15:36	fliebel	amalloy: Can I aslo do ^Boolean/TYPE for a type hint?
15:36	fliebel	ah
15:36	hiredman	compiler
15:54	andyfingerhut	In Clojure 1.2, is there a way to declare a method with a return value that is an array of Java primitives specifically? That is, not just defaulting to an Object, which all Java arrays are, but specifically an array of primitives?
15:54	andyfingerhut	Sorry, I meant all of that "in a definterface"
15:55	amalloy_	andyfingerhut: we had a long discussion about this like half an hour ago; you probably want to just check out the logs. tl;dr: ^"[D" should be the type-hint for an array of doubles
15:56	amalloy_	&(class (double-array 1))
15:56	sexpbot	⟹ [D
15:56	andyfingerhut	Sorry I missed it.
15:56	hiredman	^doubles actually
15:58	hiredman	https://guthub.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/jvm/clojure/lang/Compiler.java#L975
15:59	andyfingerhut	So I can AOT compile a program with either ^"[D" or ^doubles as the type hint for a method return value in a definterface, but if I then try to do clojure.contrib.repl-utils/show with the name of the interface, I get a run time error NoClassDefFoundError: java/lang/doubles
15:59	andyfingerhut	Is the type hint working, but there is perhaps a bug in repl-utils/show?
16:01	hiredman	definterface may not know how to do the ^doubles thing
16:01	andyfingerhut	Or the ^"[D" thing, apparently.
16:02	amalloy_	hiredman: oh, that's handy. what about an array of double arrays?
16:04	andyfingerhut	definterface seems to have the same limitation in type-hinting arguments to methods: Java primitives can be hinted fine, and individual references of Object or any subclass, but not arrays of any kind (that I've found a syntax for).
16:04	hiredman	amalloy_: I think you are best off using ^objects in that case
16:05	hiredman	andyfingerhut: you could inspect the output of the definterface macro
16:05	andyfingerhut	hiredman: You mean the byte codes it emits?
16:05	andyfingerhut	Or just the macroexpansion?
16:06	hiredman	the second
16:06	andyfingerhut	I'll try that...
16:06	hiredman	you may need to pull the form apart and inspect the metadata on different pieces too
16:08	khaliG	is there a looping construct to perform side-effects over a sequence?
16:09	khaliG	(this is for setting the width for table columns in swing)
16:09	fliebel	khaliG: doseq?
16:10	khaliG	fliebel, sounds liek the thing, thank you
16:25	scottj	can anyone explain this behavior, (defn ^{:a 1} foo []) (meta foo) => no {:a 1} then (defn ^{:a 2} foo []) (meta foo) => {:a 1}
16:34	scottj	that's in clojure 1.2. something must be different in 1.3 bc all those meta calls return nil
16:34	raek	scottj: I get nil both times (1.3)
16:34	raek	scottj: the metadata you put on the symbol ends up on the var, rather than the function object
16:35	raek	but that behaviour in 1.2 looks a bit weird to me
16:35	raek	(meta #'foo)
16:37	khaliG	is there a way to print to string?
16:38	raek	khaliG: pr-str
16:38	khaliG	raek, cheers
16:38	brehaut	,(with-out-str (prn "hello"))
16:38	clojurebot	"\"hello\"\n"
16:38	raek	&(pr-str [:foo "bar"])
16:38	sexpbot	⟹ "[:foo \"bar\"]"
16:38	scottj	raek: in 1.2 the (meta foo) will return old data while (meta #'foo) returns latest
16:40	scottj	the reason I wanted to put the data on the function instead of the var is it seems easier to get at. if I have foo then (let [x foo] (meta x)) will work while it won't if the data's on the var I'm not sure how to get to it if there's indirection
16:43	fliebel	scottj: Maybe you could do a macro to do (def (with-meta (fn)))
16:43	raek	scottj: what are you using the metadata for?
16:45	scottj	raek, type checking. I have an abstraction that can be either maps or fns
16:46	scottj	something like (defn slice? [x] (or (instance? slice.core.Slice x) (and (fn? x) (:slice (meta x)))))
16:47	raek	then I believe what fliebel makes sense.
16:48	raek	if you are inspecting the functions rather than the vars
16:48	raek	*what fliebel suggested
16:48	scottj	well I'd be happy to inspect the var but in the function slice? I pasted I'm not sure how to do that since calling (var x) will fail
16:49	raek	in general, you can't go from function object to var object
16:50	scottj	as in (defn foo [x] (var x)) (foo map) ?
16:50	raek	var is a special form.
16:50	raek	the symbol representing the var must be known at compile time
16:50	scottj	yeah, so there's no macro trickery to make that work you'd have to call (foo #'map)?
16:51	raek	then you can't use it with anonymous functions, or functions that has been letted or passed though a function parameter on the way...
16:52	scottj	ok so was fliebel saying (def fn-name (with-meta (fn declaration...)) instead of defn?
16:52	raek	if you need the metadata on the function, then put it on the function
16:52	raek	yes
16:52	raek	(def foo (with-meta (fn [x] ...) {:a 1}))
16:54	scottj	gosh that's annoying that defn doesn't work that way bc now I have to set the metadata for arglist etc manually
16:54	raek	you can write a macro for that...
16:55	scottj	I think this will work, thanks for the help!
16:55	raek	np.
17:07	semperos	trying to do a basic gen-class
17:07	semperos	here's my code
17:07	semperos	https://gist.github.com/819398
17:07	semperos	stacktrace included for when I run "lein compile"
17:08	semperos	what am I doing wrong?
17:09	raek	semperos: the JVM doesn't allow names with dashes in them (the "-" prefix is removed by clojure, so it doesn't count)
17:09	semperos	heh
17:10	semperos	now I remember that
17:10	semperos	raek: thank you
17:10	raek	(this is why - in namespace names are translated into _ in file names)
17:11	semperos	raek: yep
17:11	semperos	I'm a little spoiled by recent JRuby use
17:11	semperos	which auto-converts between underscored and camel-cased method names
17:11	semperos	so you can write it either way in your jruby
17:12	semperos	I pay attention to is for namespaces, wasn't even thinking about it for the function call, but makes perfect sense
18:03	jhulten	I am having an issue reading a property file... https://gist.github.com/819513
18:03	jhulten	If anyone has pointers, it would be appreciated.
18:25	markskilbeck	How would I send color-coding escape characters to something like println?
18:26	belief	Hey guys, what is the best resource to getting started learning clojure for an experienced Java developer?
18:27	pdk	the books programming clojure or practical clojure would work
18:27	pdk	grab a primer on lisp like the online version of sicp as well perhaps
18:28	belief	thanks pdk
18:28	belief	will check them out
18:28	markskilbeck	belief: http://clojure.blip.tv/file/982823/
18:28	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.Exception: 502>
18:29	pdk	you so silly clojurebot
18:29	markskilbeck	chuckle chuckle
18:29	belief	thanks markskilbeck had not come across those videos
18:38	rata_	hi
19:23	_Vi	"user=> (ns qqq (:use some.namespace))" -> It parse some/namespace.clj. How to make it to parse the file again?
19:23	_Vi	(without reloading JVM)
19:26	dakrone	_Vi: (ns qqq (:use [some.namespace] :reload-all))
19:28	_Vi	dakrone, Thanks, it works.
19:31	dakrone	np
19:39	amalloy	markskilbeck: re color codes, you should be able to include any characters you want in your string with \x or \u escapes
19:40	markskilbeck	amalloy: thanks
19:40	amalloy	hm, not \x, i guess
19:40	amalloy	&"\u000a\u0007"
19:40	sexpbot	⟹ "\n"
19:41	amalloy	results in \n and a bell noise in my repl
20:16	no_mind	I have a string with & characters in ti. I want to split into smaller strings at & characters and store sub strings as a vector, in the order they appear in original string. How do I do this ?
20:17	brehaut	,(vec (.split "foo&bar&baz" "&"))
20:17	clojurebot	["foo" "bar" "baz"]
20:18	brehaut	no_mind: does that answer your question?
20:19	brehaut	secondly, if you are doing this for HTTP, im sure there a library in ring to do it for you
20:19	no_mind	brehaut: yup, thanks
20:29	amalloy	brehaut: what, no regexes?
20:30	no_mind	I have couple of webpages as html files. Is there a library that can take html pages, fill values from database and render the page. These are html forms and I want to edit some entities in the application
20:31	brehaut	amalloy: fine ##((comp vec (partial take-nth 2) (partial re-seq #"[^&]*")) "foo&bar&baz")
20:31	sexpbot	⟹ ["foo" "bar" "baz"]
20:31	brehaut	no_mind: sounds a lot like enlive
20:32	no_mind	amalloy: any advantage of using regex in this situation ?
20:32	brehaut	no_mind: its a joke at my expense
20:32	no_mind	ok
20:41	mec_	with emacs (clojurebox) is there a way when i eval in a buffer to send it to the repl so the result is printed instead of just flashing in the messages window?
20:48	amalloy	mec_: C-c C-c evaluates a top-level form, so that will probably work?
20:51	mec_	amalloy: C-c C-c is just giving me an error, i usually use C-x C-e or M-C-x, but that will only return the result in the messages window not the repl
20:52	amalloy	mec_: C-c C-c wants you to run C-c C-k at least once to compile the whole file, so that the namespace exists
20:52	amalloy	not ideal, but...
20:53	qed	amalloy: can't you just C-x C-e the (ns ...) and then C-c M-p, set the namespace in the repl, and then C-c?
20:53	qed	C-c C-c rather
20:53	amalloy	qed: probably, yes
20:53	qed	my way sounds more complicated to explain, but i think is a bit more natural
20:54	qed	i dont like to load everything into the REPL at once usually
20:54	amalloy	qed: i usually load it all, myself. what do you use incremental loading for?
20:55	qed	amalloy: ill walk through code -- looking at the way functions behave along the way
20:55	qed	in order to get a feel for the code
20:56	amalloy	qed: for other people's code, or your own?
20:57	qed	both sometimes :)
20:58	qed	i like to load up incrementally -- it usually goes pretty quick and by the time im done i have more of it in my head and can make better decisions about design etc.
20:58	qed	C-c C-k seems like a sledge hammer -- i like to whittle
20:59	amalloy	fair enough
21:01	qed	amalloy: but of course, if i make some sweeping change like renaming something throughout several files then I C-c C-k like a mad man :)
21:03	mec_	This is mainly for a scratch file that doesnt have a (ns ...) so I can keep track of dev in the repl. I really just want whatever I eval to behave as If i copied it into the repl first and hit enter
21:04	qed	mec_: check out C-h C-x C-e and see what it calls versus what C-c C-c calls
21:06	mec_	C-c C-c just gives namespace error, C-h C-x C-e is undefined
21:06	qed	err C-h k C-x C-e
21:06	mec_	slime-eval-last-expression
21:06	no_mind	is it possible to merge two vectors and create a new vector ?
21:07	brehaut	,(concat [1 2 3] [:a :b])
21:07	clojurebot	(1 2 3 :a :b)
21:07	qed	,(apply conj [1 2 3 4] [5 6 7 8])
21:07	clojurebot	[1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8]
21:07	qed	brehaut's is the right way though :)
21:07	amalloy	no_mind: well yes, but the usefulness of an answer will depend on what you mean by "possible" and "merge"
21:08	amalloy	(and also possibly "vector")
21:08	qed	:D
21:08	qed	brehaut: i've found that most of the time with clojure it's best to phrase your question in terms of what you're trying to achieve
21:08	qed	err no_mind
21:08	brehaut	heh
21:08	qed	an example would be better is what i'm saying...
21:08	no_mind	amalloy: let me rephrase, say have two vectors [a b c] and [d e] I want to create a vector which has [a b c d e] , in that order
21:09	qed	,(concat [1 2 3] [4 5])
21:09	clojurebot	(1 2 3 4 5)
21:09	mec_	,((comp vec concat) [1 2 3] [4 5 6])
21:09	qed	seems to do the job, no_mind -- no?
21:09	clojurebot	[1 2 3 4 5 6]
21:09	brehaut	$findfn [1 2 3] [4 5] [1 2 3 4 5]
21:09	sexpbot	[clojure.set/union clojure.core/lazy-cat clojure.core/concat clojure.core/into]
21:09	brehaut	qed, like that? ;)
21:10	mec_	zomg i wants it
21:10	qed	i was going to suggest into actually
21:10	brehaut	$findfn inc [1 2 3] [2 3 4]
21:10	sexpbot	[clojure.core/map clojure.core/pmap clojure.core/keep]
21:10	brehaut	,(doc keep)
21:10	clojurebot	"([f coll]); Returns a lazy sequence of the non-nil results of (f item). Note, this means false return values will be included. f must be free of side-effects."
21:10	amalloy	haha pmap. way to go sexpbot, solve these problems with the magic of threading
21:11	mec_	interesting
21:11	brehaut	huh. keep is cool
21:11	qed	,(into [] (concat [1 2 3] [4 5 6]))
21:11	clojurebot	[1 2 3 4 5 6]
21:12	brehaut	,(into #{} (concat [1 2 3] '(4 5 6 1))
21:12	clojurebot	EOF while reading
21:12	brehaut	bah
21:12	qed	naughty!
21:12	amalloy	into is the right answer, though
21:12	mec_	where can i get findfn
21:12	qed	mec_: sexpbot ;)
21:12	amalloy	mec_: nobody's bothered to write a version that doesn't live in sexpbot
21:12	qed	$findfn #{:a 1} [1 2 3]
21:12	sexpbot	[]
21:13	qed	$findfn [1 2 3] [3 2 1]
21:13	sexpbot	[clojure.core/rseq clojure.core/reverse]
21:13	amalloy	but you can ask him via /msg sexpbot findfn blah blah blah
21:13	gfrlog	I can't bind symbols in a macro can I? ("Can't use qualified name as parameter"...)
21:14	amalloy	gfrlog: there are two ways to do it depending on your goal
21:14	gfrlog	e.g., local variables that I want the caller to be able to access
21:14	gfrlog	I know about the x# thing
21:14	amalloy	ah, then you want the other answer
21:14	brehaut	haha the other answer
21:14	gfrlog	:) I guess so, because I'm assuming x# is inappropriate here
21:14	mec_	,(source findfn)
21:14	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: source in this context
21:14	qed	binary answers, only in clojure/.
21:14	gfrlog	since I want it to work before being rewritten
21:14	amalloy	&`(let [~'x 10])
21:14	sexpbot	⟹ (clojure.core/let [x 10])
21:14	brehaut	mec_ its part of sexpbot, rather than clojure
21:15	amalloy	$whatis sexpbot
21:15	sexpbot	sexpbot is http://github.com/Raynes/sexpbot
21:15	qed	mec_: cd-client could be nice for you
21:15	gfrlog	holy jackwagon
21:15	qed	lol
21:15	mec_	ah ok
21:15	qed	jackwagon...
21:16	qed	https://github.com/Raynes/sexpbot/blob/master/src/sexpbot/plugins/clojure.clj
21:16	amalloy	https://github.com/Raynes/sexpbot/blob/master/src/sexpbot/plugins/clojure.clj#L156 for findfn,
21:16	qed	:)
21:16	gfrlog	amalloy: could you explain what is going on with your 3 kinds of quotes? I've not seen most of thoes outside a macro
21:16	amalloy	gfrlog: macros aren't special; ` works anywhere
21:16	qed	$`(let [x 10])
21:16	amalloy	but i can't defmacro in sexpbot or clojurebot
21:16	qed	,`(let [x 10])
21:16	clojurebot	(clojure.core/let [sandbox/x 10])
21:17	amalloy	&`(let [x 10])
21:17	sexpbot	⟹ (clojure.core/let [clojure.core/x 10])
21:17	gfrlog	this is witchcraft, right?
21:17	qed	,`(let [~x 10])
21:17	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: x in this context
21:17	amalloy	lol
21:17	qed	,`(let ['x 10])
21:17	clojurebot	(clojure.core/let [(quote sandbox/x) 10])
21:17	qed	,`(let [~'x 10])
21:17	clojurebot	(clojure.core/let [x 10])
21:17	amalloy	gfrlog: http://hubpages.com/hub/Clojure-macro-writing-macros is something i wrote recently and is semi-on-topic
21:18	amalloy	search for ~' to skip to the relevant part
21:19	_Vi	I want clojure.lang.PersistentArrayMap, but with overridden toString. How it's better to do it?
21:19	amalloy	_Vi: ##(doc proxy)?
21:20	sexpbot	⟹ "Macro ([class-and-interfaces args & fs]); class-and-interfaces - a vector of class names args - a (possibly empty) vector of arguments to the superclass constructor. f => (name [params] body) or (name ([params] body) ([params+] body) ...) Expands to code which cre... http://gist.github.com/819794
21:20	qed	,'~`'~'!
21:20	clojurebot	(clojure.core/unquote (clojure.core/seq (clojure.core/concat (clojure.core/list (quote quote)) (clojure.core/list (quote !)))))
21:20	qed	evil grin
21:21	gfrlog	amalloy: that is quite
21:21	qed	I thought proxy had fallen out of favor...
21:21	gfrlog	I think ~' works though, since I'm getting other errors; so thanks!
21:21	amalloy	quite...anything in particular?
21:22	gfrlog	quite describably by adverbs maybe?
21:22	amalloy	qed: maybe. i don't know any better way to get actual implementation inheritance
21:23	qed	amalloy: reify?
21:23	brehaut	amalloy: the alternative would to reify the whole interface, closuring the map in question i think
21:23	amalloy	right, but you have to do the whole interface
21:23	qed	^^ -- My understanding is that since 1.2 you should almost always be using reify
21:24	qed	proxy is niche
21:24	brehaut	qed but this is the niche in question is it not?
21:24	hiredman	proxy will generally be much slower
21:24	qed	and then hiredman comes in and owns everyone's face
21:24	_Vi	(proxy [clojure.lang.PersistentArrayMap] [{:key "val"}] (toString [] "qqq")) ;; What's wrong here?
21:25	hiredman	_Vi: why are you doing that?
21:25	qed	_Vi: the parens. lisp is a filthy, filthy language.
21:25	_Vi	How to create map {:key "val"}, but with overridden toString?
21:26	brehaut	_Vi you would want to closure over that map; its not a property of the proxy object itself
21:27	_Vi	brehaut, How to do it?
21:27	brehaut	(let [map {:key "val}] (proxy ...)
21:27	brehaut	)
21:27	qed	ahhh yes...
21:27	brehaut	and dont call it map, thats a terrible name
21:27	brehaut	(shadows a core method)
21:28	hiredman	brehaut: no
21:28	brehaut	haha no all of it, or one particular part?
21:28	hiredman	_Vi: I question your need to override .toString
21:28	hiredman	brehaut: all of it
21:28	qed	lol
21:28	amalloy	brehaut: proxying a closure won't be any better than reifying one
21:28	qed	no.
21:28	qed	fin.
21:28	amalloy	and if you're going to all the work, you might as well be fast with reify
21:28	_Vi	hiredman, I'm inserting it to javax.swing.DefaultListModel.
21:29	hiredman	_Vi: and why does that require an overriden .toString?
21:30	tomoj	brehaut: shadowing isn't terrible
21:30	_Vi	hiredman, It is displayed as '{:key "value"}' in gui instead of, for example, 'value'.
21:31	gfrlog	,(class out)
21:31	clojurebot	java.io.StringWriter
21:31	hiredman	_Vi: if you want "value" you should put in value
21:31	_Vi	hiredman, And how to retrieve the details of selected list item then?
21:33	_Vi	(let [q {:key "val"}] (proxy [clojure.lang.PersistentList] [q] (toString [] "qqq"))) ;; works
21:33	hiredman	_Vi: I don't have your code here, and I don't know what you are doing, but it seems like storing stuff you don't want to display in a swing coponent is a bad idea
21:33	_Vi	(let [q {:key "val"}] (proxy [(type q)] [q] (toString [] "qqq"))) ;; why doesn't it work?
21:34	qed	there's too much java implicit in this question for me to be genuinely helpful.
21:35	hiredman	component
21:35	qed	hiredman: you're going to have to offer more than that if you want him to understand you
21:35	hiredman	and the javadoc for javax.swing.DefaultListModel says it is based on Vector, which is a bad idea in general
21:35	qed	_Vi: i dont mean to be rude, but im guessing your first language is not english
21:37	_Vi	qed, What is not meaningful and needs revision?
21:37	qed	hiredman: is there a reason deftype shouldn't be considered here?
21:38	brehaut	_Vi: (str (let [m {:key "val"}] (proxy (Object) [] (toString [] "123"))))
21:38	hiredman	qed: why should it be considered?
21:38	gfrlog	what's the easiest way for me to create a "middleware" java.io.Writer to use with out?
21:38	qed	hiredman: im asking you an open question -- does it have any bearing on this discussion in your opinion?
21:38	tomoj	brehaut: what's m for?
21:38	brehaut	_Vi: you need to pass the class or interface you want to proxy to the first arg of proxy (as per (doc proxy)); no superconstructure args. b) probably should use reify if its just the tostring you want and c) everything hiredman says
21:39	brehaut	tomoj: presumably you'd do something smart with it insdie the proxy
21:39	hiredman	deftype shouldn't generally be considered because defrecord is far more useful
21:39	tomoj	that sounds nuts
21:39	hiredman	I should say in most cases
21:39	qed	I think proxy is definitely wrong here
21:40	qed	err I'll concede in a similar fashion and say that, in most cases, proxy is wrong
21:40	hiredman	(into list (vals {:key "value"})
21:40	qed	it used to be the only way, but we have so many more options to solve problems like this post 1.2
21:40	hiredman	proxy, if anything, would be more correct in this case, because proxy would allow you to overide a method without have to implement the entire interface
21:41	brehaut	_Vi: corrected for tomoj's observation (str (let [m {:key "val"}] (proxy (Object) [] (toString [] (:key m)))))
21:41	brehaut	"val"
21:41	tomoj	qed: isn't this a problem not worth solving?
21:41	qed	tomoj: DeMorgan's
21:42	tomoj	is this problem worth solving? (I expect not)
21:43	_Vi	brehaut, If I replace "str" with ":key" I get "nil" instead of "\"val\"", so it's not like a map.
21:43	tomoj	er, figured you wanted me to rephrase, but now that I think about it, what do you mean, "DeMorgan's"?
21:43	qed	tomoj: tomoj the double negative :)
21:44	brehaut	_Vi: are you wanting a map, or are you wanting something you can pass to your swing thingimy that takes a map and returns a string for display
21:44	qed	is not this a problem not worth solving?
21:44	qed	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Morgan's_laws
21:45	_Vi	brehaut, I want subclass of map that is like PersistentHashMap, but with little bit of my functionality (toString).
21:45	tomoj	did you read it before linking it to me? I was considering sending you that link :)
21:45	qed	tomoj: actually ive completely screwed that up -- for some reason i think of demogran when i think of double negation
21:45	brehaut	_Vi: you do not want a subclass; this is not java. prefer delegation over inheritance
21:45	hiredman	_Vi: why do you need a subclass of PHM?
21:47	_Vi	hiredman, To make an object that have certain differences from PHM but still compatible with it in all other places.
21:47	qed	tomoj: sorry about that :D
21:47	hiredman	_Vi: why do you need that?
21:48	_Vi	hiredman, Here I'm trying to use it for DefaultListModel (but may be this can be useful in other places as well).
21:48	hiredman	that doesn't make sense
21:48	brehaut	_Vi are you familiar with the idea 'seperation of concerns'?
21:48	hiredman	just call a make-displayable function on it before hand
21:48	qed	_Vi: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_concerns
21:50	brehaut	_Vi: the basic idea here is that the data model aspect of your program (represented by the persistent hash map) is a seperate aspect to displaying it in a DefualtListModel. Because of this you should not have a piece of code that acts in both roles
21:51	_Vi	brehaut, OK, considering creating separate special object like DisplayableItem with reference to the map.
21:51	brehaut	_Vi if all you need is a ToString, theres already a built in type that provides ToString for you easily: String. you wont need to go to the effort of creating a new type.
21:52	brehaut	_Vi: just make a function that takese your map and produces a string that is the display value
21:52	brehaut	also sorry about the dotnet there
21:53	brehaut	_Vi: because your map is immutable, any object that just returns a tostring of it equivalent to just that string anyway
21:53	qed	aside: I constantly wonder about Java in clojure programs and what role it should play in practice
21:53	_Vi	brehaut, OK. Considering Clojure's classes as final and non-extendable (not-easily-extendable) for future.
21:54	_Vi	brehaut, The map is not just a string. When accessed from other places it is like a map.
21:54	brehaut	qed its interesting eh; theres definate merit to it, but where does that leave clr clj, or js-clj or whatever
21:54	brehaut	_Vi and in those places, just provide the map
21:55	qed	brehaut: i dont know man -- i kind of find using java in clojure programs to be sort of dirty -- it's not an objective criticism, it's more of a visceral reaction on my part
21:55	tomoj	I'd bet if we had to write everything from scratch in pure clojure, clr and js wouldn't even be on the map
21:56	_Vi	qed, Is using Java in Clojure like using asm in C?
21:56	qed	_Vi: no not at all
21:56	brehaut	qed sure but at the same time, imagine clojure's web libs without all the stuff ring builds on
21:56	qed	clojure was /built/ to use java
21:56	tomoj	s/we/they/
21:56	sexpbot	<tomoj> I'd bet if they had to write everything from scratch in pure clojure, clr and js wouldn't even be on the map
21:56	qed	i just find it sort of repugnant
21:56	tomoj	someday I'm going to murder you, sexpbot
21:57	qed	tomoj: sexpbot knows more clojure than you do
21:57	qed	he spends all day in this channel, every day, logging, watching, waiting, plotting...
21:57	_Vi	qed, It makes the code less lispy?
21:58	_Vi	qed, Public channel logs is one of the source of information. Sometimes I find answers there.
21:58	qed	_Vi: my opinion is somewhat extreme. java is so disgusting to me that even something as innocent as java.lang.String can make me want to kill someone
21:58	qed	but that is definitely not the whole story
21:58	qed	using java is a huge win for clojure
21:58	qed	i just personally go out of my way to not use it
21:59	_Vi	qed, To love Clojure, while hating Java? Strange feeling?
21:59	qed	i like the lisp in clojure -- i like the JVM in clojure, but the Java, well, that's another story
22:02	qed	brehaut: tell me im being irrational, spoiled, etc.
22:02	brehaut	nah
22:02	brehaut	i have no love for java.lang
22:03	qed	that sounds like the seed of a rap song
22:03	qed	i gotz no luv 4 java.lang, son
22:03	brehaut	haha
22:04	qed	brehaut: did you go to clojure conj?
22:04	brehaut	qed nope; im literally on the wrong side of the world
22:04	qed	if you're on the wrong side and im on the "right" side, then we're all on the wrong side
22:04	brehaut	haha
22:06	brehaut	qed where is your wrong side?
22:07	gfrlog	I bet he lives on the wrong side of the earth's crust
22:07	brehaut	hes a hyperborian?!
22:08	gfrlog	that is a strange word
22:09	gfrlog	something starting with "hypo" might do
22:10	gfrlog	,(clojure.java.io/make-output-stream "/dev/null")
22:10	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No single method: make_output_stream of interface: clojure.java.io.IOFactory found for function: make-output-stream of protocol: IOFactory
22:10	brehaut	gfrlog: in Hellboy, the Hyperboreans are the first race of man, and the decendants live secretly deep under the earth, occasionally rising up to try to reclaim their land
22:10	brehaut	Hyperborea was actually supposed to be on teh top of the world; eg the artic
22:11	gfrlog	okay. So I shouldn't take hints from the etymology then
22:11	brehaut	nope
22:11	gfrlog	hypocrustian
22:11	gfrlog	hypocrustacian?
22:12	gfrlog	anybody know the easiest way to replace out with /dev/null?
22:12	zippy314	gfrlog: (binding [err (java.io.PrintWriter. (writer "/dev/null"))] ... )
22:12	gfrlog	,(clojure.java.io/output-stream "/dev/null")
22:12	clojurebot	java.security.AccessControlException: access denied (java.io.FilePermission /dev/null write)
22:13	gfrlog	zippy: that looks good, thanks
22:13	zippy314	just replace err with out (I was copying from my code)
22:13	gfrlog	right
22:13	Scriptor	anybody know exactly which algorithm Object.hashCode() uses?
22:14	gfrlog	doesn't it return an int?
22:14	gfrlog	,(class (.hashCode "hooha"))
22:14	clojurebot	java.lang.Integer
22:14	hiredman	for the default impl .hashCode could just be the pointer address
22:14	gfrlog	,(.hashCode 382)
22:14	clojurebot	382
22:14	Scriptor	yea, that seems to be the typical case
22:14	hiredman	the impl for a specific class can be whatever
22:14	amalloy	Scriptor, hiredman: yes, for Object hash is just the memory address
22:15	brehaut	,(.hashCode (Object.))
22:15	clojurebot	15771477
22:15	brehaut	thats closer to the 'default'
22:15	amalloy	&((juxt hash str) (Object.))
22:15	sexpbot	⟹ [5749406 "java.lang.Object@57ba9e"]
22:16	brehaut	" (This is typically implemented by converting the internal address of the object into an integer, but this implementation technique is not required by the JavaTM programming language.)" – http://download.oracle.com/javase/1.4.2/docs/api/java/lang/Object.html#hashCode()
22:16	amalloy	&((juxt #(Integer/toHexString (hash %)) str) (Object.))
22:16	sexpbot	⟹ ["aa6e7e" "java.lang.Object@aa6e7e"]
22:17	brehaut	have some ellipsis for that preceeding quote: … …
22:18	amalloy	$sed -brehaut s/(.*)/...$1...
22:18	sexpbot	<brehaut> ...have some ellipsis for that preceeding quote: … ….........
22:18	amalloy	hm. more dots than i expected, but w/e
22:18	hiredman	^- if I actually saw that output it would be annoying
22:18	amalloy	hiredman: yeah, but that's me being annoying, not sexpbot :)
22:19	amalloy	but enabling and/or encouraging, you're right i'm sure
22:25	bytecolor	is this an appropriate way to bind out to /dev/null? (binding [*out (java.io.OutputStreamWriter. (java.io.FileOutputStream "/dev/null"))] (println "foo"))
22:25	bytecolor	I missed the response to the previous question, if there was one...
22:25	hiredman	http://commons.apache.org/io/api-release/org/apache/commons/io/output/NullOutputStream.html
22:28	bytecolor	I missed an asterisk in out, and a period after Stream :/
22:29	amalloy	hiredman: funny stuff in there. i like the BrokenOutputStream
22:33	bytecolor	(alter-var-root (var paip.eliza1/variable?) (fn [_] #(some #{%} '(x y z))))
22:33	bytecolor	is there a proper way to do that? basically change a function in another namespace?
22:34	bytecolor	that's a hackish way I figured out that works, but it just feels wrong on a number of levels ;)
22:35	tomoj	one level likely being just what you're trying to do
22:35	tomoj	why do you want to change it?
22:45	amalloy	sritchie_: ping
23:09	amalloy	$mail sritchie http://commons.apache.org/io/api-release/org/apache/commons/io/input/SwappedDataInputStream.html looks like it would help with your pymath or whatever the problem library was
23:09	sexpbot	Message saved.
23:15	amalloy	brehaut: how interested would you be in a version of findfn that worked like: $findfn (map $ [1 2 3]) [2 3 4] returns inc?
23:16	brehaut	that would be cool