2011-01-18
| 00:11 | mabes | ,(def foo (Foo. 4 5)) (.newInstance Foo) |
| 00:11 | clojurebot | DENIED |
| 00:11 | mabes | hrmm.. does clojurebot not like defrecord? |
| 00:12 | mabes | anyways, the above is not working for me. I get a java.lang.InstantiationException |
| 00:12 | tonyl | not def |
| 00:12 | mabes | oh |
| 00:12 | mabes | opps, wrong line of code |
| 00:12 | mabes | ,(defrecord Foo [x y]) (.newInstance Foo) |
| 00:12 | clojurebot | DENIED |
| 00:13 | mabes | anyways, that line errors out with a.lang.InstantiationException.. any ideas on how I can get a new instance of Foo using newInstance or similar? In my case I have a 'type' that I want to create a new instance of |
| 00:14 | tonyl | (Foo. 4 5) |
| 00:14 | mabes | rigth, but Foo could be any class in a var called type |
| 00:15 | tonyl | you can use (new Foo 4 5) |
| 00:15 | tonyl | (new #'type 4 5) |
| 00:17 | tonyl | I don't think I understood your question, is that what you meant? |
| 00:18 | mabes | ,(defrecord Foo [x y]) (let [type (class (Foo. 4 5))] (new #'type 3 2)) |
| 00:18 | clojurebot | DENIED |
| 00:19 | mabes | yeah, although now I get "Unable to resolve classname: (var type)" |
| 00:20 | mabes | also, I don't seem to be able to init Foo with no args.. I thought defrecord allowed you to do that... |
| 00:20 | mabes | ,(defrecord Foo [x y]) (new Foo) |
| 00:20 | clojurebot | DENIED |
| 00:20 | mabes | sigh |
| 00:22 | mabes | ,(defrecord Foo [x y]) (seq (.getConstructors Foo)) |
| 00:22 | clojurebot | DENIED |
| 00:23 | mabes | I thought defrecord gave you a constructor with no args, but that doesn't seem to be the case... |
| 00:23 | tonyl | it doesn't seem so |
| 00:23 | tonyl | I am new to records too |
| 00:23 | tonyl | maybe somebody else would step up |
| 00:25 | mabes | this SO post hits on what I'm wondering about: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4520319/clojure-assigning-defrecord-fields-from-map |
| 00:26 | mabes | tonyl: thanks anyways, that was helpful |
| 00:29 | tonyl | maybe this might help (defmacro instantiate [klass values] `(new ~klass ~@values)) |
| 00:29 | tonyl | from this link http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4514196/how-to-make-a-record-from-a-sequence-of-values |
| 00:41 | amalloy | mabes: records have a constructor that takes one argument for each field |
| 00:42 | amalloy | what would be the value of creating a record with fields missing? they're immutable anyway, and you lose any performance gain if you fill them up chunk-at-a-time |
| 00:54 | tomoj | not quite any, right? |
| 00:57 | tomoj | huh, I thought keyword access on records was supposed to be really fast? |
| 00:58 | tomoj | it looks slower even that hashmap access |
| 01:15 | amalloy | tomoj: it should be fast, yes |
| 01:21 | tomoj | amalloy: https://gist.github.com/5a4b5b4846b702f2266a |
| 01:24 | amalloy | tomoj: hiredman was trying to explain to me earlier today that the first time you call (:x some-rec) it looks up the .x element and caches it for faster access (as in your third test) |
| 01:24 | amalloy | that doesn't seem to be happening here but my understanding is that it should be |
| 01:24 | tomoj | ah, hmm |
| 01:25 | tomoj | does it depend on AOT, I wonder? |
| 01:25 | amalloy | tomoj: it's silly, i know, but what if you put a type-hint on foo? (:x ^Foo foo)? |
| 01:25 | tomoj | tried it |
| 01:25 | tomoj | in both the let binding and at the callsite |
| 08:08 | shortlord | technomancy: how do you access the "rooms" ref in your Mire server? I have been trying to set up some simple server and run a repl on it, but I always end up in a different namespace than the server and so can't access any variables on the server through the client |
| 09:02 | Somelauw | Is there a difference with scheme when using reduce? I am trying (reduce cons () (range 5)) and it says it can't create ISEQ from Integer. |
| 09:04 | Somelauw | Oh, I see the parameters in the update function are reversed: (reduce (fn [x y] (cons y x)) (list) (range 5)) |
| 09:04 | AWizzArd | Somelauw: conj |
| 09:04 | AWizzArd | instead of cons |
| 09:04 | raek | yes. you can also use 'conj' here |
| 09:04 | AWizzArd | ,(reduce conj () (range 5)) |
| 09:04 | clojurebot | (4 3 2 1 0) |
| 09:05 | AWizzArd | ,(reduce #(cons %2 %1) () (range 5)) |
| 09:05 | clojurebot | (4 3 2 1 0) |
| 09:06 | Raynes | Is there any particular reason you're doing that in the first place? |
| 09:07 | Somelauw | I like to reverse lists in a geeky way. |
| 09:07 | AWizzArd | (: |
| 09:09 | shortlord | how can I change in a thread to another namespace? using (ns namespace-name) results in an error |
| 09:09 | shortlord | Exception in thread "Thread-3" java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.IllegalStateException: Can't change/establish root binding of: *ns* with set |
| 09:10 | AWizzArd | shortlord: in-ns |
| 09:11 | AWizzArd | But it is not likely that you really want to do that. |
| 09:11 | AWizzArd | Perhaps you want to call a function in NS1 from a thread. |
| 09:11 | AWizzArd | in that case you can (NS1/your-fn arg1 arg2) |
| 09:14 | shortlord | AWizzArd: well, the situation is this: I want to write a very simple remote repl, that lets me inspect the server. Just using the normal repl or read-string does not work, because these launch in the clojure.core namespace |
| 09:15 | shortlord | I have written an execute function in the server namespace that executes an input string using load-string, but even calling servernamespace.core/execute still won't find the symbols in the server namespace |
| 09:28 | shortlord | AWizzArd: do you have any idea how evaluating forms in the current namespace without switching to it could be done? |
| 09:28 | tomoj | ,(doc require) |
| 09:28 | clojurebot | "([& args]); Loads libs, skipping any that are already loaded. Each argument is either a libspec that identifies a lib, a prefix list that identifies multiple libs whose names share a common prefix, ... |
| 09:29 | AWizzArd | shortlord: you most likely want, as tomoj indicated, require a ns. |
| 09:31 | AWizzArd | shortlord: for example, when you have Clojure-Contrib in your classpath and do (require 'clojure.contrib.string) or even better (require '[clojure.contrib.string :as string]) then you can do (string/join ...) |
| 09:34 | raek | that still won't make 'foo' resolve to 'servernamespace/foo' |
| 09:36 | raek | ,parse |
| 09:36 | clojurebot | java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: parse in this context |
| 09:36 | raek | ,(binding [*ns* (the-ns 'clojure.xml)] parse) |
| 09:36 | clojurebot | java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: parse in this context |
| 09:37 | raek | ,(require 'clojure.xml) |
| 09:37 | clojurebot | nil |
| 09:37 | raek | ,(binding [*ns* (the-ns 'clojure.xml)] parse) |
| 09:37 | clojurebot | java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: parse in this context |
| 09:37 | AWizzArd | ,(ns-resolve 'clojure.xml 'parse) |
| 09:37 | clojurebot | #'clojure.xml/parse |
| 09:38 | raek | (binding [*ns* (the-ns 'clojure.xml)] (eval 'parse)) => #<xml$parse clojure.xml$parse@322bce> |
| 09:39 | AWizzArd | You can also call the result of (ns-resolve 'clojure.xml 'parse). |
| 09:42 | Somelauw | Also, what happened to foldright? |
| 09:42 | raek | yeah, (resolve 'parse) in that position will yield the same result too |
| 09:43 | raek | there was a thread re foldright on the google group |
| 09:43 | AWizzArd | Somelauw: (reduce f (reverse coll)) |
| 09:44 | AWizzArd | I think vectors can be reversed in O(1) |
| 09:44 | Somelauw | Does reverse have exactly the same performance as reduceLeft? |
| 09:44 | Somelauw | fix: Does reverse have exactly the same performance as reduceRight? |
| 09:45 | raek | reverse will force all elements of the seq to be in memory at the same time |
| 09:45 | raek | reduce will not |
| 09:45 | raek | so reduce is more lazy-seq friendly |
| 09:46 | Somelauw | AWizzArd, so it won't actually reverse anything? |
| 09:46 | shortlord | raek, AWizzArd: thx a lot. it works with a *ns* rebinding :) |
| 09:48 | Somelauw | But would (reverseRight fun seq) perform faster than (reduce fun (reverse seq)) when used on linked lists? |
| 09:49 | Somelauw | Or consume less memory? |
| 09:49 | raek | shortlord: how is reverseRight defined? |
| 09:50 | raek | also, reverse is always O(n). vectors have the rseq funcion, which is O(1). |
| 09:50 | raek | ,(doc reverse) |
| 09:50 | clojurebot | "([coll]); Returns a seq of the items in coll in reverse order. Not lazy." |
| 09:50 | raek | ,(doc rseq) |
| 09:50 | clojurebot | "([rev]); Returns, in constant time, a seq of the items in rev (which can be a vector or sorted-map), in reverse order. If rev is empty returns nil" |
| 09:51 | raek | ehrm.. I meant Somelauw... |
| 09:52 | Somelauw | raek, I meant reduceRight (or foldRight) |
| 09:54 | raek | clojure has no reduceRight/foldRight |
| 09:56 | raek | (reduce fun coll) = (reduce fun (seq coll)) would have the same performance characteristics as (reduce fun (rseq coll)) |
| 09:56 | raek | ...and memory characteristics |
| 09:57 | pdk` | grown ups are always reducing the fun |
| 10:14 | AWizzArd | raek: yes, rseq I meant, good point |
| 10:53 | LauJensen | fogus`: Hows Marginalia coming along ? |
| 10:54 | fogus` | LauJensen: I think trunk will fix your protocol doc problem. But I haven't tried it on your source yet. |
| 10:54 | LauJensen | trunk? |
| 10:54 | Raynes | fogus`: Get your mind out of the subversion gutter. |
| 10:54 | LauJensen | oh my - I was afraid that was what he meant |
| 10:54 | fogus` | doh! occupational hazard |
| 10:55 | Raynes | fogus`: doccupational hazard, more like. |
| 10:55 | LauJensen | fogus`: I just have one question http://images.nonexiste.net/irc/2008/10/13/git_two.jpg |
| 10:58 | raek | upcomming suport for extrating the dosctrings from defprotocol forms? |
| 10:59 | LauJensen | Hopefully - ClojureQL documentation looked very scarce seen through Marginalia |
| 10:59 | fogus` | raek: Yes. It always worked (defprotocol Foo "for this" (bar [this] "but not for this") |
| 10:59 | raek | ah, ok |
| 11:00 | raek | I remember trying it and something did not work |
| 11:00 | fogus` | raek: We pushed the regex impl as far as possible and it broke us |
| 11:00 | LauJensen | fogus`: Feel free to test on CQL before you release :) |
| 11:01 | LauJensen | We have stuff like multiple arities in the protocol |
| 11:02 | fogus` | Understood |
| 11:05 | raek | is this allowed in regular mardown? "one `two<newline>three` four" |
| 11:06 | LauJensen | raek: You need two newlines for an actual newline I think |
| 11:06 | LauJensen | raek: but consulting the daring fireball |
| 11:07 | LauJensen | s/consulting/consult/ |
| 11:07 | sexpbot | <LauJensen> raek: but consult the daring fireball |
| 11:07 | raek | I don't want a new paragraph. I just want to keep my lines less than 80 chars wide |
| 11:08 | Raynes | raek: If you need to newline in the middle of code, you probably don't want ``. |
| 11:08 | raek | so I use M-q in emacs, which sometimes splits up `two three` into two lines |
| 11:08 | raek | single newline is like a space in non-github markdown |
| 11:09 | raek | ;; Take a look at this arbitrary map: `{:a 1, |
| 11:10 | raek | ;; :b 2}`. Blah blah |
| 11:12 | raek | anyway, I have to fight emacs to not break those up, since marginalia does not currently handle this as I expected it |
| 11:12 | fogus` | raek: I always test Markdown at http://attacklab.net/showdown/ |
| 11:13 | fogus` | That page seems to do what you want. |
| 11:13 | raek | fogus`: thanks! |
| 11:14 | Raynes | I'm only somewhat well-versed in markdown of the pandoc variety. |
| 11:14 | fogus` | raek: Caveat being that there is no official standard and different parsers tend to do slightly different things |
| 11:15 | LauJensen | Is there some special syntax specific for Marginalia, I mean for doing examples or some such thng? |
| 11:15 | raek | fogus`: would it be a good idea to make marginalia handle ";; blah `foo\n;; bar` blah" in the same way as the parser you linked handles "blah `foo\nbar` blah" |
| 11:16 | fogus` | LauJensen: The only current extension that we have is the support for Latex and MathML equations |
| 11:17 | fogus` | raek: Does it not handle it properly now? |
| 11:18 | raek | fogus`: no, it outputs "blah `foo bar` blah" rather than "blah <tt>foo bar</tt> blah" |
| 11:18 | shortlord | after I've put a core.jar file with java classes in it into a directory on the classpath, how can I import it in clojure? :import core.* does not work, neither does :import processing.core.* (the latter would be the correct line in eclipse after adding it to the build path) |
| 11:19 | tonyl | shortlord: you can only import classes |
| 11:20 | tonyl | not classes inside packages |
| 11:20 | lpetit | ping ! "Lost in translations lpetit" looking for a little bit humanity, humility and sympathy |
| 11:20 | fogus` | raek: Maybe there is something that we can do, but if it's in the markdownj lib I'm not sure we'll get around to fixing that |
| 11:21 | Raynes | shortlord: To translate what tonyl just said to English, there is no way to import all of the classes in a package at the same time. You have to import the ones you want individually. |
| 11:21 | raek | fogus`: ok. I might look into it. |
| 11:21 | Raynes | (:import (processing.core SomeClass AnotherClass MoreClasses ...)) |
| 11:22 | Raynes | It may seem tedious at first, but readers of your code will thank you. |
| 11:23 | shortlord | Raynes: ah, that works! Thanks a lot :) |
| 11:25 | raek | fogus`: should I create an issue for this? |
| 11:26 | fogus` | Raynes: We wrote JoC in and extended Markdown. We didn't implement all of it in Clojure though, only the extended bits. |
| 11:26 | Raynes | fogus`: I'm using Pandoc's extended markdown for my book. It's pleasant. |
| 11:26 | fogus` | raek: Please. BTW, I think that Gruber wrote a reference Markdown parser that serves as the "standard" |
| 11:29 | fogus` | Raynes: Looking forward to reading it. :-) |
| 11:29 | Raynes | :> |
| 12:00 | bhenry | why does every example i can find of ring-session use sandbar's wrap-stateful-session? |
| 12:00 | bhenry | *ring's wrap-session rather |
| 12:03 | _na_ka_na_ | hey guys which web server do you recommend for a Clojure web app in production to be run as a windows service |
| 12:05 | _na_ka_na_ | tomcat doesn't work nicely if I deploy my app as a Servlet |
| 12:07 | _na_ka_na_ | gives errors like: SEVERE: The web application [/] appears to have started a thread named [pool-2-thread-1] but has failed to stop it. This is very likely to create a memory leak. |
| 12:16 | Licenser | aloa |
| 12:16 | Scriptor | does anyone know if the jdk 7 is going to support tail calls? From the features list they only seem to have gone as far as dynamic invocation |
| 12:16 | Licenser | it got quiet in the channel or is it me? |
| 12:17 | Scriptor | it often gets quiet here |
| 12:17 | amalloy | Scriptor: i think the answer is no |
| 12:17 | Scriptor | dammit |
| 12:50 | gtrak | _na_ka_na_ application servers get fussy about threads, that's one of the reasons they exist, to manage all that for you |
| 12:50 | tonyl | why do vars have private meta and what is it for? just for the compiler? |
| 13:10 | amalloy | tonyl: it stops it from being imported when someone :refers your namespace |
| 13:11 | shortlord | is there any equivalent to map for functions that cause side effects? |
| 13:12 | shortlord | dotimes seems to allow only a binding of 1 variable |
| 13:12 | Raynes | &(doseq [x [1 2 3]] (println x)) |
| 13:12 | sexpbot | ⟹ 1 2 3 nil |
| 13:12 | shortlord | Raynes: but doseq would cause a different behaviour using 3 variables |
| 13:13 | amalloy | doseq is more like for than map, but yeah. if you prefer the map "style", you can ##(dorun (map println [1 2] [3 4])) |
| 13:13 | sexpbot | ⟹ 1 3 2 4 nil |
| 13:14 | amalloy | shortlord: is good? |
| 13:15 | shortlord | amalloy: have to test it, but that sounds like it could work |
| 13:20 | shortlord | amalloy: yep, works. great, thx :) |
| 14:10 | LauJensen | Now thats a pretty blue line :| |
| 14:10 | LauJensen | http://www.google.com/trends?q=clojure%2Cphp%2Cruby%2Cscala&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=1 |
| 14:10 | tonyl | amalloy: just came back. thanks for the explanation |
| 14:11 | nachtalp | also a nice example of text mining gone wrong: "Berlusconi: Gov't will last despite Ruby scandal" |
| 14:11 | tonyl | LauJensen: I don't see a blue line at all |
| 14:11 | LauJensen | tonyl: Thats right |
| 14:12 | LauJensen | nachtalp: Yea its hard to get around |
| 14:12 | nachtalp | LauJensen: most of the time i'm thankful it's not that easy to get right :) |
| 14:14 | amalloy | also entertaining is the sharp drop in searches for php around christmas every year, while the other languages stay about the same |
| 14:14 | nachtalp | :) |
| 14:15 | LauJensen | amalloy: You mean because their parents dont allow them to go online during the holidays? |
| 14:15 | nachtalp | this doesn't look a whole lot better either: http://www.google.com/trends?q=clojure,+scala&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=1 |
| 14:16 | LauJensen | Yes, we must find a more level playingfield, like |
| 14:16 | LauJensen | http://www.google.com/trends?q=clojure%2C+algol&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=1 |
| 14:16 | nachtalp | but i guess with scala there's also a lot of noise involved... |
| 14:16 | fdaoud | yeah, but did you notice it all has to do with Italian Opera? ;-) |
| 14:17 | amalloy | LauJensen: algol is surprisingly popular in finland |
| 14:17 | LauJensen | amalloy: The rule is: Whatever the Finns do with IT, respect it |
| 14:17 | LauJensen | I still remember in 96 when the rest of us barely could do shaded rotating 3d cube... then FutureCrew showed up at The Party ... ouch |
| 14:27 | Luyt_ | hmmm, 'clorine' sounds noxious ;-) |
| 14:28 | pjstadig | at least its not clorjine or clorinjure or clojurinistic |
| 14:28 | amalloy | jlorine |
| 14:28 | Luyt_ | cluorine, clotastic, clorgasm, cloffensive |
| 14:29 | Luyt_ | clot |
| 14:31 | jjido | santa clos |
| 14:53 | gtrak | cloroform |
| 15:19 | ossareh | morning all |
| 15:21 | tonyl | afternoon ossareh |
| 16:01 | jweiss_ | can someone suggest a good way to do this in emacs: I have a piece of code within a defn that I want to test, but it refers to a function argument, so I can't just C-x C-e it. Copying it to the repl doesn't work either bc it's in a different ns. |
| 16:01 | jweiss_ | i want to bind the function argument to a value and evaluate the sexp |
| 16:02 | amalloy | jweiss_: kill the code segment, then yank it into a C-c C-e (let [arg foo] ...)? |
| 16:02 | amalloy | hardly elegant, but... |
| 16:05 | raek | jweiss_: C-c M-p <ret> in the source buffer to change namespace of the repl to the one of the buffer |
| 16:05 | jweiss_ | raek: aha |
| 16:05 | jweiss_ | ok that is the direction i was going (manually) |
| 16:05 | raek | same as (in-ns 'the.name.space) |
| 16:06 | amalloy | raek: which reminds me, that doesn't work if the ns has any metadata |
| 16:06 | raek | jweiss_: github.com/technomancy/swank-clojure lists some really useful commands |
| 16:07 | raek | amalloy: I usually enter the metadata as a docstring and an "attribute map" |
| 16:07 | amalloy | ie (ns ^{:doc "my awesome project"} awesome.project ...) causes a lot of things in slime to not work |
| 16:07 | raek | ,(doc ns) |
| 16:07 | clojurebot | "([name docstring? attr-map? references*]); Sets *ns* to the namespace named by name (unevaluated), creating it if needed. references can be zero or more of: (:refer-clojure ...) (:require ...) (:use... |
| 16:07 | raek | (ns foo.bar "foo docs" {:meta-key "meta val"}) |
| 16:08 | amalloy | raek: agreed that's better but sometimes i have to work on libs someone wrote using the ^ style |
| 16:11 | raek | then I'd like to present a snipped technomancy showed me: (doto 'foo.bar require in-ns) |
| 16:26 | chouser | that's cute |
| 16:28 | bhenry | i always forget how to undef something. |
| 16:28 | bhenry | to avoid restarting swank |
| 16:28 | chouser | ns-unmap, I think |
| 16:30 | bhenry | yep found it. thanks chouser |
| 16:30 | hiredman | there is always remove-ns |
| 16:30 | hiredman | I wonder if swank should try that before compiling a file |
| 16:30 | bhenry | hiredman: depending on how remove-ns works you might be onto something |
| 16:31 | bhenry | you can delete all your (:use) lines and recompile in swank and it won't complain. |
| 16:36 | S11001001 | hiredman: dangling ns references elsewhere |
| 16:36 | S11001001 | and defeating defonce |
| 16:44 | hiredman | S11001001: *shrug* |
| 16:47 | puredanger | do protocols functions support varargs? |
| 16:48 | hiredman | nope |
| 16:50 | puredanger | hiredman: darn, oh well |
| 16:54 | kumarshantanu | tonyl: PHP doesn't have threads |
| 16:54 | hiredman | php would just benefit from decent collections period |
| 16:55 | tonyl | yeah, that is what i was thinking, maybe a strong parallel programming system first |
| 16:57 | tonyl | i like php arrays |
| 16:57 | kumarshantanu | is php6 going to address any of these? |
| 16:57 | tonyl | they were easy to use when i first starting programming |
| 16:58 | tonyl | the only thing I know about php6 is unicode strings |
| 17:02 | kumarshantanu | I remember somebody prototyped PHP-like syntax for Clojure |
| 17:02 | tonyl | hiccup? |
| 17:02 | tonyl | no i don't think is that one |
| 17:02 | kumarshantanu | Blah <? (println "hello") ?> blah |
| 17:03 | hiredman | tonyl: php arrays are pretty much garbage |
| 17:04 | hiredman | and there is no proper associative datastructure |
| 17:05 | nickik | i just wrote a array library for VB |
| 17:06 | nickik | because VB proviedes nothing !!!!! |
| 17:06 | nickik | (VB classic) |
| 17:07 | nickik | The library is modle after clojure seq functions. The stuff is slow but it works and we don't really ned speed. |
| 17:08 | brehaut | nickik: i think every (decent) VB or VBA developer rolled their own datastructure classes |
| 17:09 | nickik | my firm didn't for 20 years :( |
| 17:10 | brehaut | i feel your pain |
| 17:10 | nickik | I didn't even have a function to print a array |
| 17:11 | nickik | we have ASP that VB-- you don't have optional arguments for example |
| 17:11 | nickik | we cant use any types and there are other restrictions too |
| 17:11 | brehaut | nickik: my last job involved maintaining a platform with around 2mil lines of VBA |
| 17:12 | nickik | oohh |
| 17:13 | kumarshantanu | https://github.com/Flamefork/fleet |
| 17:13 | nickik | brehaut: a big word macro :) |
| 17:13 | brehaut | hahaha |
| 17:13 | brehaut | thankfully it wasnt that evil |
| 17:14 | nickik | brehaut: are there any good open source array librarys? I asked on Stackoverflow but knowbody answerd. |
| 17:14 | tonyl | kumarshantanu: I see, interesting |
| 17:15 | brehaut | nickik: not that i found |
| 17:17 | nickik | brehaut: im pretty happy with mine. Atm im implementing RecordSet to Array conversions but I not sure how to do it. You could make a 2d array but those are stupid to work with. I think my way will be a 1d array and then partition that thing. |
| 17:17 | brehaut | nickik: the thing i found most useful was implementing a bunch of iterators for building pipelines |
| 17:19 | nickik | brehaut: What do you meen be that. pipelines? |
| 17:19 | kumarshantanu | tonyl: if you can parse a file content at <? and ?> boundaries and re-write it as pure clojure code, then you easily eval it as (apply str ....) and probably that'll be something close to the PHP model |
| 17:20 | brehaut | nickik: are you familiar with unix ? |
| 17:20 | nickik | brehaut: ah ok |
| 17:21 | tonyl | wonder if it uses a the mod_proxy to parse the template through clojure then output the html |
| 17:22 | kumarshantanu | tonyl: fleet just evals them i guess |
| 17:23 | nickik | brehaut: could you explain a little bit how you did that and provide a use case? I'm having trouple imagening it. |
| 17:23 | nickik | privat chat maybe? |
| 17:23 | tonyl | kumarshantanu: i like your simple approach of html parsing |
| 17:24 | kumarshantanu | tonyl: posting questions about fleet on the group will likely get fleet author's attention, and hopefully accurate replies :) |
| 17:25 | tonyl | yeah, thanks for sharing kumarshantanu |
| 17:26 | amalloy | hiredman: php isn't my favorite, but its "arrays" are a perfectly fine associative structure. they're all k/v maps |
| 17:26 | amalloy | array('data' => 10) |
| 17:27 | kumarshantanu | array(array("key" => 50) => 100) |
| 17:28 | amalloy | kumarshantanu: well yeah, the keys have to be strings or ints, which is gross for sure |
| 17:28 | amalloy | so not a very spirited defense of php from me :) |
| 17:28 | zakwilson | Trying to improve PHP is like putting lipstick on a pig. |
| 17:29 | kumarshantanu | zakwilson: +1 (i use php at work) |
| 17:29 | zakwilson | It is so flawed, to its very core that you'd waste time doing anything but scrapping the whole thing. |
| 17:30 | amalloy | zakwilson: c'mon, so cliche. maybe it's more like making twinkies healthy by using whole grains |
| 17:30 | zakwilson | And the culture is fundamentally aligned against improving it. Ask them to do the Right Thing and they argue against it. |
| 17:30 | zakwilson | Whole grains would actually make them more healthy... it's more like organic twinkies. |
| 17:31 | hiredman | amalloy: they only allow strings or numbers as keys |
| 17:31 | amalloy | hiredman: yeah, see above where i give up on defending php |
| 17:32 | kumarshantanu | string and int can be unambiguously hash-keyed, maybe that's why |
| 17:33 | kumarshantanu | int is the straight index though, not a hash |
| 17:35 | hiredman | I would be surprised if php "arrays" did use any hashing |
| 17:35 | hiredman | Testing safe.test.elasticsearch |
| 17:35 | hiredman | FAIL in (test-rollover-play-dead-good-dog) (AFn.java:163) |
| 17:35 | hiredman | with a sufficent shard size, split between two indices |
| 17:35 | hiredman | whoops |
| 17:35 | hiredman | wrong buffer, a thousand pardons |
| 17:36 | amalloy | hiredman: they do hash; lookup by key is O(1) |
| 17:36 | hiredman | amalloy: I bet |
| 17:41 | kumarshantanu | bye all |
| 20:08 | hiredman | ,(double 3663/2) |
| 20:08 | clojurebot | 1831.5 |
| 21:17 | akhudek_ | I've just experienced a StackOverflowError in the clojure compiler. |
| 21:18 | akhudek_ | I understand this can be caused by recursive macros, although in this case, I can't see that happening. |
| 21:18 | akhudek_ | Here is a stack trace of the problem, with two relevant functions: https://gist.github.com/785569 |
| 21:19 | akhudek_ | I'm at somewhat of a loss on how to track the problem down further. |
| 21:23 | tonyl | have you try running it without the macro |
| 21:23 | tonyl | it seems that the macro doesn't need to be there |
| 21:23 | tonyl | since all of its args are evaluated |
| 21:23 | tonyl | still looking where that SOE might be happening, but that was just a thought |
| 21:23 | akhudek_ | let me try that |
| 21:31 | akhudek_ | yep, still happens without the update-in-meta macro |
| 21:32 | akhudek_ | It must be something to do with the larger structure of the program, although the main loop is a recur loop, and I'm not seeing how a stack can be built up during it. |
| 21:33 | tonyl | it can if it is realized |
| 21:34 | tonyl | but i don't think that can happen is there is no data to store but just computation |
| 21:36 | akhudek_ | Well, it does store data as it goes. The context is that this is a backtracking theorem prover. I'm using delay to store a stack of backtrack points. That particular stack is implemented using a vector. |
| 21:40 | amalloy | akhudek_: yeah, this update-in-meta thing looks fine |
| 21:42 | amalloy | and indeed update-in-meta by itself works fine. it has to be something in the calling context |
| 21:43 | akhudek_ | hmm, ok, that helps, I think I may have found it. |
| 21:43 | akhudek_ | Main loop has a pair of functions that call each other, this is likely the source of the deepening stack. |
| 21:48 | dnolen | akhudek_: what are you using the theorem prover for? |
| 21:48 | akhudek_ | query rewriting |
| 21:49 | akhudek_ | we'll be released it as open source at some point, assuming we can iron out all the research issues |
| 21:49 | dnolen | akhudek_: for databases? |
| 21:50 | akhudek_ | initially, yes, although it should actually be flexible enough to do compilation in other contexts too |
| 21:51 | dnolen | akhudek_: interesting. I've been messing around with backtracking a unification a lot lately, been writing my own implementation of a logic engine based on miniKanren (a Prolog variation) |
| 21:52 | dnolen | akhudek_: the way I way avoided stack overflow in my project was to express mutually recursive functions as lazy sequences. |
| 21:53 | akhudek_ | hm, kanren looks pretty interesting |
| 21:53 | akhudek_ | we decided to roll our own prover because we need a lot of alternative proofs |
| 21:53 | akhudek_ | and alternate proofs in a specific way |
| 21:54 | akhudek_ | each proof corresponds to some translation of one fol sentence to another |
| 21:55 | dnolen | akhudek_: https://github.com/swannodette/logos, is my project. would love to see how you're tackling similar problems when you guys open it up. |
| 22:00 | akhudek_ | Neat, I'll take a look at it. Briefly looking at your examples suggest that your overall structure is very different than ours. |
| 22:02 | akhudek_ | I'm not sure when we'll be putting code up, although we may have a paper out sometime this year. |
| 22:03 | dnolen | akhudek_: looking forward to that. any particular reason you picked Clojure for your research? |
| 22:04 | akhudek_ | We felt it would help us prototype things quickly. |
| 22:05 | akhudek_ | In particular, we make extremely heavy use of clojures versioning data structures both for backtracking and simplicity of implementation. |
| 22:06 | dnolen | akhudek_: yeah, for backtracking it's a beautiful match, I'm using PersistentHashMaps to hold the logic var bindings. |
| 22:08 | akhudek_ | Same design here. We also use it for our tableau structure. When we extend a branch, we simply copy the entire world and make the necessary change in the new one. |
| 22:09 | akhudek_ | Although that may come back to haunt us, since one technique we are considering requires going back and modifying the tableau in the middle of the tree. |
| 22:09 | akhudek_ | That is now difficult since we'd have to somehow propagate the changes down the branches. |
| 22:13 | cobol_expert | is there a way to create a defrecord instance with named arguments? |
| 22:13 | cobol_expert | useful for big arg lists |
| 22:13 | akhudek_ | cobol_expert: no, you'll have to roll a macro for it |
| 22:14 | cobol_expert | thnx, good idea |
| 22:14 | akhudek_ | I think there may be a few on the web if you look |
| 22:14 | dnolen | akhudek_: cobol_expert: or a function, in 1.2.0 you can have keyword args to functions. |
| 22:16 | cobol_expert | actually, i'm not sure what good either of those would do |
| 22:16 | cobol_expert | if you have a (defrecord Point [x y]) |
| 22:16 | dnolen | cobol_expert: you write a constructor fn. |
| 22:16 | cobol_expert | and want something like (Point. :x 1 :y 2) |
| 22:17 | cobol_expert | you'd have to throw away the argument names |
| 22:17 | dnolen | (defn make-point [& rest] ...) |
| 22:17 | dnolen | (make-point :x 1 :y 2) |
| 22:18 | dnolen | cobol_expert: you'll want to do something like that anyway, as otherwise consumers will need to import the Java class that is your defrecord. |
| 22:19 | akhudek_ | to elaborate, something like https://gist.github.com/785627 |
| 22:19 | akhudek_ | I keep forgetting keyword args were introduced. |
| 22:20 | cobol_expert | hm, i'm a little behind on destructuring, so i can't tell what that does |
| 22:20 | cobol_expert | actually a lot behind |
| 22:21 | amalloy | akhudek_: they weren't, really. what was introduced was the ability to destructure maps in a & arg |
| 22:21 | cobol_expert | i see, so the x,y in the gist example just map to the appropriate fields |
| 22:21 | akhudek_ | cobol_expert: the & means that what follows is a collection of the remaining arguements |
| 22:21 | cobol_expert | er.. so to speak |
| 22:22 | akhudek_ | in that case, all the arguments since I specified none |
| 22:22 | akhudek_ | the brackets destructure that collection as a map |
| 22:22 | cobol_expert | i got that part |
| 22:22 | akhudek_ | defining keys x and y |
| 22:22 | akhudek_ | the or is the default parameters |
| 22:23 | cobol_expert | ah, cool |
| 22:23 | cobol_expert | thx! i'll play around with that a bit |
| 22:27 | amalloy | cobol_expert: you might also be interested in defrecord2, which automatically does this stuff |
| 22:27 | amalloy | $google defrecord2 |
| 22:27 | sexpbot | First out of 12 results is: david-mcneil/defrecord2 - GitHub |
| 22:27 | sexpbot | https://github.com/david-mcneil/defrecord2 |
| 22:30 | cobol_expert | thanks, that looks useful |
| 22:30 | amalloy | (standard disclaimers apply: i haven't used it, don't know if that's the canonical repository, etc etc) |
| 23:01 | dnolen | nice, 1.5X speed boost for logos.minikanren unification. protocols FTW. |
