#clojure – 2011-01-02

2011-01-02

00:49	auser	is there a way, with leningen to specify a dependency that is on github and not in clojars?
00:51	auser	anyone?
00:51	clojurebot	Please do not ask if anyone uses, knows, is good with, can help you with <some program or library>. Instead, ask your real question and someone will answer if they can help.
00:52	qbg	I'm not sure you can add github as a Maven repo
00:52	auser	okay... well. I'm trying to use leningen to specify a dependency that is on github and not in clojars, how would I go about doing that?
00:52	auser	hm I see
00:52	qbg	You could build the project yourself and do lein install
00:52	qbg	for a local install
00:53	qbg	(or so I hear)
00:54	qbg	Or you could put the project on Clojars under your own group
00:55	auser	hm... need to investigate
00:55	qbg	Just pushed my first project to Clojars a few minutes ago; its really easy
00:55	auser	oh yeah?
00:57	qbg	You could also send a message to the owner of the repo on github and tell them to put it on Clojars themselves
01:00	auser	that was easy
01:46	dakrone	auser: since you are using leiningen, you can use checkout dependencies to do what you'd like as well
01:47	auser	I can?
01:48	dakrone	yea, check the "I want to hack two projects in parallel, but it's annoying to switch between them." question on the FAQ, it describes how to use what you'd like
01:48	auser	sweet
01:48	dakrone	you basically create a checkouts directory and symlink projects into it
01:49	auser	hm, which FAQ?
01:50	auser	oh wait
01:50	auser	there it is
02:48	amalloy	bendlas: ##(some :x (transient {:x 1}))
02:48	sexpbot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: clojure.lang.PersistentArrayMap$TransientArrayMap
02:48	amalloy	oh. or i guess just ##(:x (transient {:x 1})) :P
02:48	sexpbot	⟹ 1
03:26	auser	so... I'm trying to grok how this works: https://github.com/texodus/saturnine/blob/master/src/saturnine/handler.clj#L137-181
03:38	amalloy	auser: what part? it looks like it's turning the methods you supply into a map, and then iterating through all the handler types, splicing in either your version or the default
03:39	amalloy	rather, it splices in your versions, and then all the defaults that aren't covered by your version
03:43	auser	ah i see... hm. I guess i need to research defmacro more
03:45	auser	I see
03:46	auser	thanks amalloy
03:47	auser	amalloy: what is the difference between that and say something with a defprotocol
03:47	auser	if you don't mind
03:49	auser	would it be that that allows you to not implement all the methods?
03:49	auser	thx
05:06	fliebel	What can I do about this? java.lang.ClassCastException: some.reify cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Named
05:10	fliebel	Nothing, thank you.
08:19	Licenser	cookies
08:54	fliebel	Does the author of Lamina, Aleph, Gloss, and a few more brilliant libs come in here?
09:05	schizoschaf	hi all. i'm very new to clojure.
09:05	schizoschaf	I try to return a java object from a clojure function. I get a ClassCastException: cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn
09:07	raek	it looks like you are trying to call the return value as a funcion
09:08	raek	(also, all clojure values are java objects too)
09:08	raek	&(StringBuilder. "abc")
09:08	sexpbot	⟹ #<StringBuilder abc>
09:08	raek	&((StringBuilder. "abc"))
09:08	sexpbot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.StringBuilder cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn
09:19	schizoschaf	thank you raek. you were right
09:22	schizoschaf	i have this:
09:22	schizoschaf	(if(instance? JpegImageMetadata metadata )(.getExif metadata) metadata )
09:23	schizoschaf	the instance? gives true. the result of (.getExif metadata) should be returned, but gives the classcastexception
10:18	_na_ka_na_	hellos, how can I await an agent to finish its work completely sent from many different threads (assuming I'm sure no more sends will be done)
10:23	_na_ka_na_	I can do: assuming all prior sends have been done, I can do (send agt identity) & then (await agt)
10:24	_na_ka_na_	one more question: do we _need_ to capture the return value of send ?
10:30	_na_ka_na_	,(let [a (agent [])] @(future (send a conj 10)) (send a conj 20) (await a) @a)
10:30	clojurebot	[10 20]
10:30	_na_ka_na_	Is the above code guaranteed to always produce [10 20] ?
11:47	kumarshantanu	hi, is it possible to access "this" or "super" inside a proxy?
12:39	chouser	kumarshantanu: yes, this is called just this
12:41	kumarshantanu	chouser: yes, thanks...noticed here too -- http://clojure.org/java_interop (under proxy)
12:54	amalloy	_na_ka_na_: yes, that is guaranteed
13:03	_na_ka_na_	amalloy, thx so I can assume that send queues the function in the agent queue and then only returns
13:03	amalloy	_na_ka_na_: yes, send will not return until the agent has queued up your action
13:28	raek	does anyone know how to assert that a certain exception is thrown in lazytest?
13:36	qbg	deftype is easy to parse using my syntax-rules library (https://github.com/qbg/syntax-rules/wiki/Parsing-deftype, http://clojars.org/org.clojars.qbg/syntax-rules)
13:39	AWizzArd	Any ideas about which Keyword fits the following purpose well? I implemented a macro that helps to set up UIs with swing. It adds ui components to a specific container. But some components I don't want to add but just create, for example FileChoosers, or tables (it is instead added to a ScrollPane which then gets added to the container, but not the table itself). What is good? :dont-add :noadd :dontadd something else?
13:40	AWizzArd	:create-only
13:40	AWizzArd	:create-but-do-not-add ;)
13:40	qbg	:create
13:40	LauJensen	:create
13:41	AWizzArd	[username-label (JLabel. "Username:")]
13:41	AWizzArd	[open (JFileChooser.) :dont-add]
13:42	AWizzArd	[color (JColorChooser.) :create]
13:45	AWizzArd	So, :create looks better?
13:45	AWizzArd	I am just not sure if it puts enough emphasis on the widget not being added to its container.
13:46	amalloy	AWizzArd: :detached maybe?
13:46	AWizzArd	also interesting
13:46	qbg	[:create color (JColorChooser.)]
13:46	qbg	?
13:48	AWizzArd	for conformity the name of the object and its creation form come first, and then all key/value args and all binary args.
13:49	AWizzArd	Thanks for the inputs, I appreciate it.
13:51	LauJensen	AWizzArd: :invisible?
13:52	AWizzArd	Also an option, yes, good idea.
13:52	LauJensen	btw - Im still open for bright ideas for names for my CMS system :)
13:52	AWizzArd	Is it a Clojure cms?
13:53	LauJensen	yea
13:53	AWizzArd	Lau-Compose
13:53	LauJensen	hehe
13:53	LauJensen	CMSjure :(
13:53	qbg	Terrible name
13:53	AWizzArd	You could think about putting your name in.
13:53	amalloy	LauJensen, AWizzArd: i don't like :invisible
13:53	amalloy	it suggests to me that it will be added, with (.setVisible false)
13:54	qbg	LauJensen: What is special about this CMS again?
13:54	AWizzArd	Contentjure Manajing Sysjam
13:54	LauJensen	HAHA
13:54	AWizzArd	amalloy: I think it will be between :detach and :dont-add
13:54	AWizzArd	But it is good to have many ideas during a brain storming.
13:55	LauJensen	qbg: oh its a very special system. You get a simple webinterface, where you upload templates and add pages. A template is simply an html files, which somewhere has a <div class="content">. In the page editor you write markdown and with every keystroke a live preview of the final site is generated. Once everything looks fine, hit generate and you got a nice, easily maintained static site
13:55	AWizzArd	LauJensen: your name sounds catchy, so it could be a cool component of a name for a piece of software.
13:55	LauJensen	AWizzArd: I think I'd have to grow my ego a little first :(
13:55	AWizzArd	g
13:56	qbg	(swap! LauJensen update-in [:ego] inc)
13:56	qbg	enough?
13:56	LauJensen	No - I was thinking of something like "Typo4" or "Drupaljure"
13:58	qbg	I'd probably name it something terrible like Grinddown
13:59	LauJensen	Grind sounds a little negative to me
14:01	qbg	Mark 'n Bake
14:01	LauJensen	hehe, clever
14:01	bendlas	Hai
14:03	LauJensen	bendlas: My hat is off to you for that pull request from last night, big thanks for your good work!
14:03	bendlas	Glad to help :)
14:06	bendlas	Got those projected group-by fields sorted out yet?
14:07	LauJensen	Just about to dig into it
14:07	LauJensen	I think I'll just revert my last commit and start over. I've thought of a much more elegant way to handle it
14:08	LauJensen	Then a little website work in my shiny new unnamed CMS and we're 1.0
14:10	krumholt	hello. can someone explain to me why (def c 'x) (let [x 1] (eval c)) will give an exception: Unable to resolve symbol x
14:10	qbg	Hmm... Interactive MarkDown Baker = IMDB; why does this keep happening?
14:11	qbg	krumholt: eval doesn't have access to the lexical environment
14:12	krumholt	qbg, which environment will eval use?
14:12	qbg	toplevel
14:14	qbg	dynamic bindings work with eval though
14:14	qbg	There are some eval-in-env macros out there too
14:14	krumholt	qbg, ok thanks
14:14	qbg	It should be noted that eval is usually the wrong thing to do
14:15	bendlas	LauJensen, nice. I'm off for the drive to Vienna now. Gonna ping when I'm home.
14:15	LauJensen	Have a good one :)
14:17	krumholt	qbg, what else should i use?
14:21	amalloy	krumholt: it depends on what you're trying to do from a larger perspective
14:22	krumholt	amalloy, i calculate a function at runtime and then i have an expression like (+ x 15 (* x x)) and eval it with a certain value for x
14:24	amalloy	krumholt: if you can't avoid constructing the function at runtime (say the user gives it to you), you might try (eval `(let [~'x ~the-x-value] ~user-function))
14:24	amalloy	but if possible you should try to construct the function at compile time, with a macro or some higher-order function
14:25	krumholt	amalloy, its not possible at compile time
14:27	krumholt	amalloy, i'll try that thanks
14:31	anars	evening
14:33	anars	I don't like the feeling of having nested let forms, so I was wondering whether or not it's frowned upon to actually have them
14:35	anars	instead, is there anything "wrong" with having a let form with bindings dependant on other bindings in the same form? e.g., [url (....) contents (client/get url)]
14:37	amalloy	anars: your sample is perfectly fine and idiomatic
14:37	amalloy	nested let forms are sometimes needed, and i don't see why they're ugly, but i can't think of any time you'd have them directly nested
14:39	amalloy	eg, (let [foo bar] (when (something foo) (let [baz (inc foo)] (do-something-with baz)))) you can't easily condense, but you shouldn't need (let [a b] (let [c b]))
14:42	anars	amalloy, that's exactly what I needed to know. thank you.
14:46	chett	Quick question
14:46	chett	say I have (defstruct foo :bar)
14:47	chett	(def x (struct foo "bar"))
14:48	chett	and (defn test [fb] (println (:foo fb)))
14:49	chett	why do i get an error with (tets x)
14:49	chett	*(test x)
14:49	anars	because the key is called :bar
14:49	anars	not :foo
14:50	chouser	what error? you should get only nil
14:52	chett	Thanks
14:52	chett	just a typo
14:54	chouser	btw, there's really no reason to use defstruct anymore with Clojure 1.2 or later
14:54	chouser	defrecord generally works better
14:55	chett	^thanks. Working through examples in Halloway book.
15:13	ddudey	If I have a local .jnilib file can I specify it in project.clj?
15:13	ddudey	Thx :)
16:39	hippiehunter	does anyone have any good resources to help me understand how order of macro expansion affects other expansions?
16:40	amalloy	hippiehunter: what do you mean, other expansions?
16:43	hippiehunter	im not sure, but im having a mental block in understanding macros, order of operations seems like a good place to get clarity
16:46	amalloy	hippiehunter: well, outside-in. the outer-most macro receives its body as a list; it manipulates that
16:47	amalloy	that macro will return a new list, which is treated as code; if there are more macros in there, then they'll be expanded when they're gotten to
16:49	hippiehunter	does the hygienic'ness mean I dont have to worry about anything other than outside-in?
16:49	amalloy	eg, (macroexpand '(m1 (m2))) will return '(something-using (m2)); if you macroexpand that again, then m2 will be expanded
16:50	raek	hippiehunter: "hygenic" is most often refering to the absence of symbol capture
16:50	amalloy	hippiehunter: more or less. if you nest macros, or want to get around hygiene, you'll have to do some thinking/fiddling with ~', '~, ~foo#, ~'foo# and the like
16:50	raek	i.e. no shadowing 'let's
16:51	hippiehunter	what does "shadowing lets" mean?
16:51	anars	hippiehunter: if you have a global symbol, and you rebind it using let, then that new binding will shadow the global.
16:52	hippiehunter	how does that apply to macro's?
16:52	raek	the macro can inject a let form
16:53	anars	on a side note, check this out, hippiehunter: http://java.ociweb.com/mark/clojure/article.html
16:54	amalloy	hippiehunter: i've never had a case where i care about order of macro expansion
16:54	amalloy	the one that gets me is the order in which ~ applies when constructing a nested macro
16:54	hippiehunter	I suppose i may just be injecting assumed complexity
16:55	amalloy	hippiehunter: try writing some simple macros, like the ubiquitous (square x)
16:55	raek	(defmacro m [exp] `(let [x 1] ~exp)) ; not allowed in clojure
16:56	amalloy	and you'll see that macros are "automatically" composable without having to worry about ordering: (square (square 2)) will return 16 just like you expect
16:56	raek	this macro does nothing, except when the expression you pass in contains an x
16:56	raek	in that case, the macro will break that code
16:57	raek	macros are just functions (well, almost)
16:58	raek	they get some unevaluated code, which they can do whatever they want with
16:58	raek	and return some new piece of code
16:59	raek	then the compiler continues as if that code instead
17:00	anars	good example with the shadowing let, raek
17:00	anars	do you understand why shadowing lets in macros can break your code, hippiehunter?
17:00	anars	shadowing bindings in general.
17:04	raek	I think "symbol capture" is a more common term, btw
17:05	amalloy	right, because shadowing bindings is more general
17:06	raek	more common than "shadowing let", sorry
17:06	amalloy	ah
17:06	raek	for this particular thing
17:06	hippiehunter	anars: I think so, but what does the safety cost? or more specifically why is it allowed in other lisps?
17:07	raek	clojure macros resolve all symbols
17:07	raek	so conj becomes clojure.core/conj
17:07	Raynes	raek: Don't you mean syntax quote?
17:08	raek	Raynes: yes. good catch
17:08	Raynes	raek: I was just writing about that in the macro chapter of my book. :p
17:08	raek	and 'let' does not allow one to let a qualified symbol
17:09	raek	so you use auto-gensymed symbols in that case to get a unique collision-free name
17:10	amalloy	hippiehunter: CL and clojure allow the same set of things to happen in macros; clojure mostly chooses a safer default
17:11	anars	hippiehunter: it's perfectly legal to do, and it will compile just fine. but if you rebind a symbol unintentionally inside a macro, and another function uses the original symbol value, then you're out of luck.
17:11	anars	that is if you're using the binding function to rebind, which causes the symbol to be rebound through the entire call stack
17:11	anars	,doc binding
17:11	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Can't take value of a macro: #'clojure.core/doc
17:12	amalloy	&(doc binding)
17:12	sexpbot	⟹ "Macro ([bindings & body]); binding => var-symbol init-expr Creates new bindings for the (already-existing) vars, with the supplied initial values, executes the exprs in an implicit do, then re-establishes the bindings that existed before. The new bindings are made i... http://gist.github.com/762871
17:12	anars	there you have it ;)
17:13	hippiehunter	so bindings is like a single value let that is specifically for shadowing other names?
17:14	hippiehunter	or is it multi value
17:14	hippiehunter	nvm, i see now
17:15	amalloy	&(map macroexpand [`(let [x 10] x) `(let [x# 10] x#) `(let [~'x 10] ~'x)])
17:15	sexpbot	⟹ ((let* [clojure.core/x 10] clojure.core/x) (let* [x__8744__auto__ 10] x__8744__auto__) (let* [x 10] x))
17:15	raek	'binding' temporarily gives a var a new value in the current thread. it only works on vars and not on function parameters and locals introduced by let
17:16	jkn2	can someone explain why using (doall) changes the behavior in this case? http://pastebin.com/yvfQrjaD
17:17	amalloy	jkn2: the first version returns a lazy-seq that points to q, and is forced after leaving the binding scope, when the repl decides to print it for you
17:18	jkn2	ahh... i keep forgetting htat. the binding scope has already been exited
17:18	jkn2	thx amalloy
17:21	amalloy	jkn2: you can do it while maintaining laziness: (let [q q] (map ...))
17:46	amalloy	is there a clojure library around for building some kind of table? i'm working on generalizing --help output from command-line scripts and the text manipulation is a pain
17:50	amalloy	i just found clojure.pprint/print-table, which i can use in a pinch, but it doesn't do word-wrap or any other kind of handling for strings with newlines in them
17:56	BobFunk_	anyone here with clojure/appengine experience?
17:57	amalloy	clojurebot: anyone?
17:57	clojurebot	Please do not ask if anyone uses, knows, is good with, can help you with <some program or library>. Instead, ask your real question and someone will answer if they can help.
17:57	BobFunk_	playing around with appengine-magic and have a little app running that works when I run it from the repl, but am getting a strange internal server error when trying to run in with the dev_appserver.sh
17:58	amalloy	BobFunk_: appengine seems to be a hot topic in here recently. no experience myself, but someone will be by eventually, i expect
17:59	BobFunk_	am just starting to play around with clojure - suspect my main problem is inexperience with how to debug something like this
17:59	BobFunk_	seems to be related to https://github.com/alienscience/form-dot-clj
17:59	BobFunk_	the error I get is java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching ctor found for class form_dot_clj.server_side$maxlength$fn__712
18:00	BobFunk_	in a huge stacktrace
18:01	amalloy	BobFunk_: sounds a little like a version mismatch, maybe. are you using the same versions of your libraries locally and on ae?
18:02	BobFunk_	I haven't actually gotten as far as trying to run it on ae - it's just running the ae servlet locally that breaks
18:02	raek	(those problems only arise if you use ahead-of-time compilation)
18:03	BobFunk_	raek: pretty sure its related to AOT compilation
18:03	BobFunk_	since that's what I'm testing - need to run a lein appengine-prepare task that aot compiles the servlet so it can be pushed to app engine
18:04	BobFunk_	and it's when testing the result that I run into the illegal argument exception
18:04	raek	then you're probably using a lib that is AOT compiled for another clojure version
18:05	dthurn	Question:
18:05	BobFunk_	hmm, could that happen if the project.clj specifies one clojure version and I have lein installed with another clojure version?
18:05	dthurn	I see a "thrown?" form referenced here: http://richhickey.github.com/clojure/clojure.test-api.html
18:05	dthurn	But it's not in the source or accessible to me
18:05	dthurn	What's going on?
18:06	raek	no, lein uses its own clojure instance
18:06	raek	dthurn: the 'is' macro interprets it
18:06	raek	and translates it into something else
18:07	raek	(also, the current version of the docs is on http://clojure.github.com/...)
18:07	dthurn	ahhh... magical.
18:08	BobFunk_	so what could make me end up with a version mismatch?
18:08	raek	one of the libs you are using
18:09	BobFunk_	and how would I aproach figuring out which lib has this problem?
18:09	raek	BobFunk_: you could also try to remove all files in classes/
18:11	raek	BobFunk_: which clojure version do you have in your project.clj?
18:11	BobFunk_	1.2.0
18:11	raek	what libs are you using?
18:12	BobFunk_	my /classes dir is empty - removed everything there, and running the lein appengine-prepare task doesn't seem to generate new classes there
18:12	BobFunk_	https://gist.github.com/762922
18:12	BobFunk_	^^^ my project.clj
18:15	raek	hrm, the form-dot-clj jar file contains only source files and no binaries...
18:17	raek	same thing for appengine-magic
18:17	raek	you could try removing everything in lib/ and do a lein deps again
18:17	BobFunk_	hehe - was just doing that! :)
18:18	BobFunk_	hmm - no luck - removed lib - reran lein deps and lein appegine-prepare, but same error when starting the server
18:20	BobFunk_	I think this started breaking when I had to rename the app to get the appengine script to be able to upload it to the right place - and my first guess was that I hda some aot compiled classes with the wrong namespace lying around - but after clearing lib/ and classes/ I don't know where any old bytecode could be lying around
18:21	raek	do you get this problem locally?
18:21	mreynolds	Newb question Is the Clojure-way of listing files simply to use File.listFiles ?
18:21	BobFunk_	yeah - both locally and after uploading to appengine
18:22	amalloy	mreynolds: i think so
18:22	ossareh	:refer-clojure is the shiznitz
18:23	raek	mreynolds: yes. files-seq and the stuff in clojure.java.io might be useful too, but they are only convenience functions for the java stuff
18:23	mreynolds	raek: Yeah, I'm looking at file-seq, but haven't gotten too much further (trying to learn how to use doc from the repl), thanks amalloy
18:27	raek	BobFunk_: I'm afraid I'm out of advice. this might be something specific to how appengine-magic does it magic.
18:32	BobFunk_	hmm, got it to work by simply commenting out the form validations - must be a problem specific to the forms-dot-clj library
18:32	raek	very strange
18:33	amalloy	BobFunk_: it is version 0.0.3 - use with caution :P
18:33	BobFunk_	hehe
18:33	mreynolds	Can someone shoot me a valid use of the doc function from the REPL (so I can verify my install isn't screwed up)?
18:34	raek	,(doc conj)
18:34	amalloy	,(doc first)
18:34	clojurebot	"([coll x] [coll x & xs]); conj[oin]. Returns a new collection with the xs 'added'. (conj nil item) returns (item). The 'addition' may happen at different 'places' depending on the concrete type."
18:34	clojurebot	"([coll]); Returns the first item in the collection. Calls seq on its argument. If coll is nil, returns nil."
18:34	raek	,(doc clojure.set/union)
18:34	clojurebot	"([] [s1] [s1 s2] [s1 s2 & sets]); Return a set that is the union of the input sets"
18:34	amalloy	clojurebot: no fair, raek gets higher priority?
18:34	clojurebot	Titim gan éirí ort.
18:35	raek	note that the namespace containing the var has to be loaded before calling doc
18:38	mreynolds	thanks, that seems to work
18:38	mreynolds	Doh, forgot () around the syntax, heh
18:39	amalloy	mreynolds: when i don't know what to write, i start with (. it's usually right
18:43	hippiehunter	Im getting java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: clojure.lang.Symbol can anyone tell me why? http://pastebin.com/ZmrqHdL5
18:44	raek	hippiehunter: remove the "defn"
18:44	amalloy	hippiehunter: deftype shouldn't have defns inside it
18:44	hippiehunter	just saw that
18:44	hippiehunter	thanks
18:45	hippiehunter	are there any plans for noob friendly error messages?
18:46	hippiehunter	are does that meta'ness preclude it
18:46	hippiehunter	or*
18:46	amalloy	hippiehunter: try "human friendly" :P
18:46	npoektop	hi! i want to do smth like (let [field ...] (set! (. obj field) value)). But . doesnt let me do this.
18:47	amalloy	hippiehunter: my understanding from reading the dev mailing list is that there are plans in motion but they're early stages still
18:48	amalloy	npoektop: right, . needs to know the field name at compile time
18:50	amalloy	npoektop: if you want to hack it, the following might work: (clojure.lang.Reflector/setInstanceField obj "length")
18:52	npoektop	amalloy: thanks. i'll try that
19:10	kanak	Hi, where do I find out about the major things being worked on for clojure 1.3? (Major things == not bugfixes)
19:13	a_strange_guy	kanak: there is a changelog for alpha 4
19:13	a_strange_guy	http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/59a22dcbc6be628f
19:14	amalloy	do we have a string padding function somewhere? i can write it myself but it's kinda ugly; i want to pad a string with spaces
19:14	Raynes	amalloy: Can't format do that?
19:15	kanak	a_strange_guy: thank you. is pods scheduled for 1.3?
19:16	a_strange_guy	they still arent in the alphas, so 1.3 will be pod-free
19:16	amalloy	Raynes: yeah, i guess it can, thanks
19:17	a_strange_guy	$(+ 1 2)
19:18	Raynes	&(+ 1 2)
19:18	sexpbot	⟹ 3
19:18	kanak	does anyone know the status of "Joy of Clojure"? Manning site claims that all chapters are Available but that the book is still in "MEAP". What exactly does this mean? is the book in final form?
19:18	a_strange_guy	,(format (str "%1$#" 20 \s) "padded")
19:18	clojurebot	" padded"
19:19	a_strange_guy	format strings are as readable as perl...
19:19	amalloy	a_strange_guy: and worse than C's format strings, even :P
19:19	Raynes	kanak: The book is complete. I'm not sure why it isn't out yet.
19:20	amalloy	kanak: it's going through publishing, i think. supposed to be arriving in hard copy this month or next, i forget
19:20	kanak	Raynes: complete as in only printing is left?
19:21	Raynes	I believe so.
19:21	hippiehunter	any idea why this makes a null pointer exception? (defrecord contact-feed [^{Key () :tag List} entry])
19:22	kanak	Raynes: thanks. i guess i should get the ebook then. I was waiting until it was in a finished state.
19:22	a_strange_guy	hippiehunter: do you want to use annotations?
19:23	hippiehunter	yes
19:23	kanak	how does Joy compare to "Clojure in Action" in terms of depth?
19:23	a_strange_guy	e.g. is Key a annotation?
19:23	a_strange_guy	oh
19:23	hippiehunter	im trying to type a field as java.util.List with @Key
19:23	hippiehunter	yeah
19:29	BobFunk_	still trying to figure out why form-dot-clj library is causing problem with app engine
19:29	BobFunk_	looking into the error No matching ctor found for class form_dot_clj.server_side$check_integer$fn__721
19:30	BobFunk_	when I unzip the jar that lein appengine-prepare made I see the form_dot_clj dir with the server_side$check_integer$fn__721.class
19:31	hippiehunter	are you passing the right number of arguments?
19:31	BobFunk_	anybody know what can cause the "No matching ctor" error?
19:31	amalloy	hippiehunter: he's not calling that constructor directly, of course
19:32	BobFunk_	nopes - using a "def-field" macro from the library that ends up using the function
19:33	a_strange_guy	hippiehunter: try (defrecord contact-feed [^{Key [] :tag List} entry])
19:33	hippiehunter	that got it
19:33	hippiehunter	why though?
19:33	amalloy	BobFunk_: that class represents a clojure function, specifically a closure; somehow or other it's trying to close over a number of bindings that is different from the number it expected
19:34	a_strange_guy	the syntax for annotation parameters is [arg arg arg] and not (arg arg arg)
19:34	amalloy	eg, (let [x 1] (fn foo [] x)) turns into a class "foo" with a one-arg constructor expecting to be passed the value of x
19:35	amalloy	(let [x 1] (fn bar [] 10)) is a class "bar" with a no-arg constructor
19:35	amalloy	somehow the compiler, or an AOTed something or other, is passing the wrong number of locals to a closure
19:36	amalloy	BobFunk_: if nothing is AOTed, that simply shouldn't happen; so i'm going to guess that something is AOTed and we just can't find it
19:36	hippiehunter	a_strange_guy: why do i see {} https://gist.github.com/377213
19:36	BobFunk_	really don't get why though
19:38	a_strange_guy	hippiehunter: dunno, ive nerver used parametrized annotations
19:38	amalloy	do (format) and String/format really not include a variable-width specifier like C's %*?
19:38	a_strange_guy	BobFunk_: do you get the "No matching ctor" as a naked error, or wrapped in ExceptionInInitializerException?
19:41	BobFunk_	in the ExceptionInInitializerException
19:41	a_strange_guy	&(eval '(+ 1 2))
19:41	sexpbot	java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! eval is bad!
19:42	a_strange_guy	this means that somewhere a macro embeds a function in a form
19:43	a_strange_guy	(defmacro embed [obj] obj)
19:43	BobFunk_	here's basically all the bits of code involved + the stacktrace: https://gist.github.com/762922#comments
19:43	BobFunk_	and yeah, there's a macro - def-field
19:44	BobFunk_	that looks up a validation function generator for :integer
19:46	amalloy	ah
19:47	amalloy	it's trying to (def foo some-function), but it can't embed the function in code
19:47	amalloy	because it can't be serialized to a string once it's been compiled
19:48	BobFunk_	hmm, so it's a problem with macros and AOT compilation?
19:48	clojurebot	not a problem, the average bid for it on getacoder is $821.00
19:49	a_strange_guy	&(binding [print-dup true] (let [local 5] (print (fn a-closure [] local))))
19:49	sexpbot	⟹ #=(sandbox6382$eval8764$a_closure__8765. )nil
19:49	a_strange_guy	no its a problem with the writer of form-dot-clj xD
19:49	BobFunk_	hehe
19:49	amalloy	BobFunk_: yeah. form.clj isn't right if it's trying to do that
19:50	BobFunk_	hmm, ok - guess I should be looking for another form validation library then
19:50	a_strange_guy	well its presently a limitation of the way print-dup works right now
19:51	a_strange_guy	i did once extend the print-dup multimethod to serialize closures properly
19:52	a_strange_guy	https://gist.github.com/313601
19:55	amalloy	a_strange_guy: that's cute
19:55	amalloy	only works in a single instance of the jvm though, i imagine
19:56	a_strange_guy	yeah, no way to access the bytecode of a class on the JVM
19:58	amalloy	a_strange_guy: someone actually did that; it was on the mailing list a few months ago
19:58	a_strange_guy	really? without instrumentation?
19:58	amalloy	trying to write some kind of persistent-ref that acts like an STM construct and also passed through to a database; it took a while but i think he got closures
20:00	a_strange_guy	ah, found it
20:01	amalloy	http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/browse_thread/thread/dd0f77c885bcfb4e/dd89d34843bfc3a8?lnk=gst&q=dref#dd89d34843bfc3a8 looks like the thread
20:05	amalloy	a_strange_guy: hm, maybe it never got finished. it looks like closures are on the todo list; did you find any evidence that it was done?
20:18	BobFunk_	anyone got a good tip on whats best to use for forms/validations ?
20:19	ossareh	does anyone know what the default behaviour of trying to save a fraction to a table (jdbc) is going to be - i.e. is it cast to a float?
20:21	ossareh	BobFunk_: I went through this recently - tried most of the libs out there and ended up rolling my own. Sandbar is very good - forms-dot-clj felt a bit too immature.
20:21	ossareh	Sandbar didn't fit for me since it required that you knew, up front, what your forms would be - which I don't. I have the format of a form, but no idea about the actual details until later on.
20:21	ossareh	i.e. at form submission time.
20:22	amalloy	ossareh: jdbc makes you do .setInt, .setFloat, etc, so there's no default i know of; whatever method you call, it will do that
20:22	ossareh	amalloy: ah, I'd not seen that last time I went through this - I was just passing it the vectors or maps or whatever clojure.contrib.sql expects - it has been a while.
20:22	BobFunk_	gonna give Sandbar a try then, since the forms I have right now should be simple enough
20:23	BobFunk_	at least gonna have a look at the source
20:23	ossareh	BobFunk_: good luck, feel free to holler at me if you want to ask any questions.
20:25	currentB	sort of on the subject: what's everyone using for html templating these days?
20:25	ossareh	currentB: without question; hiccup.
20:26	ossareh	I actually converted html5boilerplate to hiccup
20:26	ossareh	tis a pretty sweet foundation to begin from
20:26	BobFunk_	nice - did you put it on github?
20:27	ossareh	not yet - I was hoping to build out this project first to ensure it works as I think it should. Also I'm unclear on how best to enforce filesystem dependencies
20:27	currentB	my one issue with hiccup is that it doesn't really work if you're outsourcing the design work
20:28	ossareh	currentB: are you getting HTML back from the outsourcer?
20:28	currentB	ideally :)
20:28	ossareh	currentB: if it is xml it shouldn't be too hard to read the doc and output hiccup vectors
20:29	ossareh	which is actually on the slate for me since I don't want to convert html5boilerplate to vectors by hand each time they update
20:30	currentB	yeah i did that for the last web thing I did with clojure
20:31	currentB	just didn't feel particularly scalable
20:34	ossareh	what issues did you find with it as a process?
20:40	ossareh	BobFunk_: would appreciate any comments you have: https://gist.github.com/763017
20:47	hippiehunter	is there something im doing wrong? Whenever I make a change to a protocol I have to do lein clean or I get error messages like java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Can't define method not in interfaces: load_unavailability
20:48	BobFunk_	ossareh: nice! will play around with it :)
20:52	amalloy	hippiehunter: i think defprotocol has defonce semantics; restarting the repl is probably necessary, but lein clean shouldn't be unless you AOT something
20:55	hippiehunter	Im only AOT'ing my app-servlet
20:55	hippiehunter	by something do you mean anything?
20:56	amalloy	hippiehunter: i don't know enough to be that specific :P
22:23	duck1123	is there a good place to go to see the docs for clojure and contrib for 1.3? Everything is all 1.2
22:24	duck1123	or am I best just building my own docs
22:25	duck1123	I wish there was a document that just gave the lookups "if you were using <this>, use <this> now"
22:34	hippiehunter	why does this line result in dat containing more elements then just token and secret
22:34	hippiehunter	(let [{:keys [token secret] :as dat} (social/load-from-key social-key)]
22:34	hippiehunter	have I missed a caveat or am i mistyping something?
22:34	hippiehunter	it seems to contain the entire map, rather than just the keys ive asked for
22:44	amalloy	hippiehunter: you've missed the point of destructuring
22:44	amalloy	dat will be the whole map because you asked for it with :as; you'll also have locals named 'token and 'secret, representing those values from the map
22:45	amalloy	&(let [{:keys [a] :as m} {:b 2 :a 1}] [a m])
22:45	sexpbot	⟹ [1 {:b 2, :a 1}]
22:46	amalloy	if you want to get back a map that only has some subset of the original keys, you want ##(select-keys {:b 2 :a 1} [:a])
22:46	sexpbot	⟹ {:a 1}
22:48	amalloy	hippiehunter: that help?
22:48	hippiehunter	yeah
22:49	hippiehunter	im a little confused as to the purpose of :as though
22:49	amalloy	it's for when you want to pull out some keys, but also keep the whole map around
22:49	hippiehunter	ok, thanks
22:49	amalloy	eg, you need to pass it through to some lower layer, but also want to peek at the :foo key on the way
22:53	hippiehunter	any idea why i can get select-keys from the auto completion in the search bar of clojuredocs.org but if I type it all the way out, it finds 0 search results? It seems to happen to anything i type with a '-'
23:11	amalloy	hippiehunter: good question. i imagine - is being interpreted as a search metacharacter of some kind, like "select, NOT keys"
23:12	hippiehunter	I just took a look on github but ruby is not really my thing
23:29	joshua__	Anyone ever heard of a tagsoup to markdown converter?
23:36	amalloy	joshua__: what would that mean? tagsoup is a program for pretending malformed xml is well-formed; markdown is a format for writing text
23:41	joshua__	ahhh.. well enlive says it uses tagsoup to get its html so..
23:41	joshua__	I meant is there a way to convert an html resource grabbed by enlive into markdown.
23:41	joshua__	I guess I was confused.
23:44	amalloy	joshua__: i doubt it. html is much more complete and complicated than markdown; you can convert up to html, but not down to markdown
23:44	joshua__	amalloy: really I just want to convert a subset of html.
23:45	joshua__	amalloy, and that subset actually fits within the markdown subset
23:45	amalloy	joshua__: you probably have to do it yourself, then. or since you have well-formed xml (courtesy of tagsoup) you might be able to persuade an xslt to do it for you
23:55	joshua__	amalloy, I found a java stackoverflow thread asking how to do this and they pointed to an xlst stylesheet that does it so I'm going the XLST route. I had never heard of it before today.