#clojure – 2010-12-01

2010-12-01

00:37	KirinDave	Huh, that's surprsing to me
00:38	KirinDave	If you say (map str (my-defrecord-thing. 1 2 3)), it says ([:a 1] [:b 2] [:c 3])
00:38	KirinDave	But
00:39	KirinDave	If you str that, it doesn't force it.
00:39	KirinDave	I guess because it's a lazy seq, but for some reason I had it in my head that if you str'd it'd force.
02:03	Raynes	&(str (lazy-seq [1 2 3]))
02:03	sexpbot	⟹ "clojure.lang.LazySeq@7861"
02:06	Licenser	Raynes: yes that is annoying
02:06	Raynes	Not really.
02:06	Licenser	yes really :P
02:06	Raynes	&(pr-str (lazy-seq [1 2 3]))
02:06	sexpbot	⟹ "(1 2 3)"
02:07	Raynes	It's only annoying if you don't know that it will happen :p
02:07	Licenser	no that just makes it barable
02:07	Licenser	str of a lazy seq sgould not return some crazy object stuff
02:07	Licenser	&(str '(1 2 3))
02:07	sexpbot	⟹ "(1 2 3)"
02:08	Raynes	&(str #'str)
02:08	sexpbot	⟹ "#'clojure.core/str"
02:08	Raynes	&(str (fn []))
02:08	sexpbot	⟹ "sandbox4199$eval6337$fn__6338@1bcaa83"
02:08	Licenser	well worky worky time
02:09	Raynes	You work too much.
02:09	cpfr	is this good form for defining local functions? (defn foo [x] (defn bar [y] (+ y y)) (bar x))
02:09	Licenser	cpfr: look into letfn
02:09	Licenser	Raynes: yes I got promoted :P
02:10	cpfr	Licenser, so always use let forms for local values?
02:10	cpfr	never use def
02:10	Licenser	nods
02:10	Licenser	that is the essence yes
02:10	Raynes	cpfr: (let [bar (fn [y] (+ y y))])
02:11	Raynes	cpfr: let names values within the scope of the let. def defines a global var.
02:11	Licenser	(letfn [(bar [y] (+ y y)] (bar x))
02:11	cpfr	Raynes, bar doesn't seem to be leaking into the global context in my repl
02:12	Licenser	&(letfn [(bar [y] (+ y y)] (bar 2))
02:12	sexpbot	java.lang.Exception: Unmatched delimiter: ]
02:12	Licenser	&(letfn [(bar [y] (+ y y))] (bar 2))
02:12	sexpbot	⟹ 4
02:12	Licenser	there we go
02:12	Licenser	anyway I'm off see you later
02:12	clojurebot	It's greek to me.
02:13	koning_robot	has compojure.http.helpers been taken out? or do I need some other package than just compojure?
02:16	Raynes	cpfr: https://gist.github.com/723101
02:17	cpfr	Raynes, odd but alright let for local
02:18	cpfr	too much scheming I suppose
02:18	Raynes	letfn works fine as well, as Licenser alluded to.
02:18	cpfr	well I want use letfn only for letrec situations
02:18	Raynes	letfn is actually your only option for mutually recursive local functions, IIRC.
02:20	hiredman	trampoline is the clenched fist in the gauntlet of letfn
03:34	lenw	hi all
03:35	lenw	how do i return the first match of one of the values in a vector with the values in another vector
03:36	lenw	ie (some-func ["t" "r"] ["x" "r") should give back "r"
03:36	lenw	(some-func ["t" "r"] ["x" "r"])
03:36	Raynes	lenw: Do they have to be at the same index?
03:37	lenw	cant seem to think about that in a functinal way and keep getting confused
03:37	lenw	no any match is good
03:37	lenw	like contains? but with values
03:38	lenw	(some-func ["r" "t"] ["x" "r") => "r"
03:41	Raynes	lenw: Will either one of these vectors ever contain duplicate elements?
03:42	lenw	its possible - they are lists of email adresses and users can do the most interesting things
03:46	Raynes	lenw: I came up with: (defn matches [v1 v2] (some #(some #{%} v2) v1))
03:47	Raynes	user=> (matches ["r" "t" "y"] ["x" "y" "r" "e"])
03:47	Raynes	"r"
03:47	lenw	Raynes: cool that looks neat - i had not got to nested some !
03:47	hoeck	lenw: sounds like you want a union of those two vectors
03:48	lenw	hoeck: yes !
03:48	Raynes	I was thinking that you could just turn the vectors into sets and union them.
03:48	hoeck	,(clojure.set/union (set [:r :t]) (set [:x :y :r]) )
03:48	clojurebot	#{:r :y :x :t}
03:48	hoeck	damn, I meant a difference :P
03:49	hoeck	,(clojure.set/intersection (set [:r :t]) (set [:x :y :r]) )
03:49	clojurebot	#{:r}
03:49	hoeck	intersection, always getting those wrong
03:49	Raynes	hoeck: I forget those things all the time. :<
03:49	hoeck	at least I know the concepts :)
03:49	Raynes	Indeed.
03:49	lenw	thank hoeck thats goos stuff to know
03:50	Raynes	&(set ["a" "a"])
03:50	sexpbot	⟹ #{"a"}
03:50	Raynes	That is why I tried to avoid sets in this case.
03:50	bartj	I get a wrong number of arguments to concat in the code
03:50	Raynes	But it doesn't really matter just to check for matches.
03:51	hoeck	Raynes: I can't count the times where I have read some complicated code that in fact does just some sort of set operations
03:51	bartj	but, no matter what I try during tests, it shouldn't happen because concat works without any arguments too!
03:51	bartj	, (concat)
03:51	clojurebot	()
03:51	Raynes	hoeck: Yeah, I've been making tons of use of the set namespace lately.
03:54	raek	,(some (set ["t" "r"]) ["x" "r"])
03:54	clojurebot	"r"
03:54	bartj	anyone?
03:54	clojurebot	Please do not ask if anyone uses, knows, is good with, can help you with <some program or library>. Instead, ask your real question and someone will answer if they can help.
03:55	bartj	clojurebot is your comment directed at me?
03:55	hoeck	bartj: can you gist the offending code?
03:55	Raynes	It's an automated response. Ignore him.
03:55	raek	ignore clojurebot in this case. you already asked a concrete question.
03:56	raek	bartj: do you have a gist of the stacktrace?
03:56	bartj	Wrong number of args (2) passed to concat
03:56	raek	...or a paste of the code?
03:59	bartj	I am afraid I can't paste the code
03:59	bartj	(concat list sorted-set)
03:59	raek	,(concat (list 1 2 3) (sorted-set 1 2 3))
03:59	clojurebot	(1 2 3 1 2 3)
04:00	bartj	raek, yes, it works in test
04:00	raek	bartj: what does (resolve 'concat) return?
04:01	Raynes	Sounds like concat isn't what it should be.
04:01	bartj	whoops!
04:01	bartj	I have a user-defined function called concat
04:01	Raynes	Indeed. That'll do it!
05:09	Raynes	$seen fliebel
05:09	sexpbot	fliebel was last seen quitting 11 hours and 10 minutes ago.
05:09	Raynes	'bout due for some fliebel action.
05:15	fliebel	morning
05:16	Raynes	Hah!
05:16	Raynes	<Raynes> $seen fliebel
05:16	Raynes	<sexpbot> fliebel was last seen quitting 11 hours and 10 minutes ago.
05:16	Raynes	<Raynes> 'bout due for some fliebel action.
05:16	Raynes	That 5 minutes ago.
05:16	Raynes	:)
05:17	fliebel	I just saw your pull request
05:17	fliebel	I'm reading now
05:32	fliebel	Raynes: I'm all for it :) Though it seems it's harder now, or I'm just sleepy :(
05:32	Raynes	fliebel: It's much harder now. :p
05:33	Raynes	The confusing parts are related to avoiding duplicates and removing questions once they've been answered so that the quizes aren't infinite.
05:33	fliebel	oh, the multiple choice ones are indeed harder, but I was doing name-quiz
05:34	Raynes	Oh, you mean the quizes.
05:34	Raynes	D'oh.
05:34	fliebel	yea :P Last time I tried I had like 70%, now I got 50%
05:34	Raynes	I haven't gone through an entire name-quiz yet.
05:34	Raynes	I'm scared. :p
05:34	fliebel	But yea, the code is also somewhat more complicated.
05:35	fliebel	Raynes: I didn;t do 100 of them either
05:35	Raynes	Well, you couldn't before. The quizes never ended!
05:35	Raynes	:p
05:35	fliebel	Raynes: Last time I discovered another gem, just as beautiful as the subs thing.
05:35	Raynes	Oooh, do tell!
05:37	fliebel	&(doc memfn)
05:37	sexpbot	⟹ "Macro ([name & args]); Expands into code that creates a fn that expects to be passed an object and any args and calls the named instance method on the object passing the args. Use when you want to treat a Java method as a first-class fn."
05:37	Raynes	Oh. That has been deprecated for quite a while.
05:37	Raynes	It predates anonymous functions, and they are generally what should be used these days.
05:38	fliebel	Oh :( I quite liked the idea of creating first class functions out of java methods.
05:38	Raynes	&(meta #'memfn)
05:38	sexpbot	⟹ {:macro true, :ns #<Namespace clojure.core>, :name memfn, :file "clojure/core.clj", :line 2949, :arglists ([name & args]), :added "1.0", :doc "Expands into code that creates a fn that expects to be passed an\n object and any args and calls the named instance method ... http://gist.github.com/723312
05:40	Raynes	Odd. I guess it isn't officially deprecated. People have been telling other people that it was and to not use it since I started with Clojure, nearly two years ago.
05:41	fliebel	So what would you do instead?
05:42	Raynes	You'd use a lambda. #(.toLowerCase %)
05:43	harishtella	Does anyone have tips on debugging clojure? Its hard to debug when i get a single line error with just "cant cast sequence to Ifn" or something like that. I wish clojure could give me a stack trace always. Is the best way to just test each function individually?
05:44	fliebel	True… Though I don't like the idea, and use real functions when possible. memfn would go nicely with partial, comp and juxt.
05:45	Raynes	harishtella: In an REPL, when it only prints a single line you can do (.printStackTrace *e) to see the stacktrace.
05:45	fliebel	harishtella: (.printStackTrace *e) on the repl will give you one
05:45	fliebel	oh to slow :(
05:45	Raynes	*e is always bound to the last stacktrace.
05:46	fliebel	$sed Raynes s/stacktrace/exception/
05:46	sexpbot	<> $sed Raynes s/exception/exception/
05:46	fliebel	hrm
05:46	harishtella	on snap, so much time wasted, lol, thanks
05:46	Raynes	fliebel: $sed -Raynes ...
05:46	Raynes	harishtella: You're welcome. :(
05:46	Raynes	:)*
05:47	Raynes	fliebel: $sed is a weird command that takes weird options. I've been meaning to make improve it's weirdness.
05:51	fliebel	Raynes: What do you think about sexpbot + qlojure-quiz? For some competitive multiplayer goodness :) I could probably make that somewhere in the next 10 years… :(
05:52	Raynes	fliebel: That could be interesting. We could even make a special channel for it.
06:04	Raynes	fliebel: number could possibly be answers.
06:04	Raynes	target could maybe be namespace, but I haven't given it much thought. number is pretty unintuitive now though.
06:04	Raynes	Since it can be rebound.
06:05	Raynes	cemerick: Morning Mr. Emerick.
06:09	cemerick	Morning.
06:09	cemerick	Grump. :-P
06:10	Raynes	fliebel: One thing I'll note: This application, however simple, will be a very, very useful tool for people in the future. I can't think of a funner way to familiarize oneself with APIs than with clojure-quiz.
06:10	Raynes	Thanks for writing it. <3
06:11	Raynes	cemerick: Have you ever used posterous?
06:12	Raynes	I've been considering migrating my blog to either it, wordpress.com, tumblr, or something similar.
06:12	Raynes	Just for the sake of not having to host it myself. I can't think of any good reason to.
06:17	cemerick	Raynes: I used it for a week or so. wordpress.com is superior in every way AFAICT.
06:18	Raynes	cemerick: I figured that. Is it relatively easy to migrate a self-hosted blog to wordpress.com?
06:18	cemerick	WP.com has supported Clojure highlighting, which is a pretty big deal, but there's lots of other advantages too
06:19	cemerick	Raynes: looks like there's an import function in the admin console; sucks in wordpress .wxr files?
06:19	cemerick	presumably something that you can generate from a local install.
06:20	Raynes	Neat. I'll check that out.
06:27	cemerick	Raynes: if you do join up, you can plug a bug for me :-P
06:27	Raynes	cemerick: ? :o
06:29	cemerick	Raynes: Their smiley replacement is unfortunately affecting code blocks: http://cemerick.com/2010/05/12/provisioning-administration-and-deployment-of-couchdb-java-tomcat/
06:30	Raynes	I turned off smiley replacement in my local install. You can't do that in a hosted wordpress? O.o
06:30	cemerick	They've fixed other issues I've raised in short order, but that's persisted. I presume it's just a rare enough case as far as they're concerned.
06:30	cemerick	Yeah, you can.
06:31	cemerick	I guess I hate compromising.
06:31	cemerick	Especially when I'm not paying any money for something. :-P
06:31	Raynes	:P
06:32	cemerick	oh, actually, I guess I do pay them some small amount for the top-level domain mapping.
06:32	Raynes	Ew. They charge for that?
06:33	cemerick	Yeah. One of the few things they do charge for.
06:33	cemerick	Posterous is the same IIRC.
06:33	Raynes	I haven't really looked into either yet.
06:33	Raynes	I'll probably just continue to self-host in that case.
06:33	Raynes	I've moved everything to a Linode, so stability shouldn't be a problem anymore.
06:34	Raynes	$shell uptime
06:34	sexpbot	03:34:37 up 2 days, 13:23, 1 user, load average: 0.02, 0.02, 0.00
06:34	Raynes	Two whole days so far!
06:34	cemerick	I'm so done with any kind of sysadmin.
06:35	Raynes	http://blog.selflanguage.org/2010/12/01/first-introspection-2010-12/ This post is very well written.
06:35	cemerick	I still have one box that isn't under proper automated admin.
06:35	cemerick	Every time I log in there, the pain is tangible.
06:36	Raynes	The only thing that I've yet to automate on crisis is the startup of znc and sexpbot.
06:52	accel	Is there any clojure library / app that can do WYSIWYG math editing? (Like Realtime TeX)
07:12	bsteuber	accel: some java stuff is listed on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_editor, but I don't think anyone did it in clojure itself
07:17	accel	ya, was looking at that, pity the only really nice one is TeXmacs, which is C++ + guile
07:17	accel	someone ought replae the C++ part with Java and the Guile part with Clojure
07:18	Raynes	Or replace the C++ part with Clojure and the Guile part with Clojure.
08:37	chouser	ugh, race condition leading to deadlock
08:38	@rhickey	where?
08:38	clojurebot	where is log
08:39	chouser	rhickey: in my own code. Needed to add a feature to a BlockingQueue, did it with an atom, got burned. :-P
08:39	@rhickey	ah
08:39	chouser	is there an existing blocking queue that has the concept of reaching the end of the input and becoming "closed"?
08:42	raek	chouser: http://clj-me.cgrand.net/2010/04/02/pipe-dreams-are-not-necessarily-made-of-promises/ and https://github.com/raek/stream-seq/blob/master/src/se/raek/stream_seq.clj#L123
08:43	raek	the latter is my own rather hackish try to get a closable LinkedBlockingQueue
08:44	raek	I wrote it during the summer and I would probably not implement it exactly like that if I would write it today
08:45	Islon	I just learnt that you have to :import and not :use a defrecord...
08:45	raek	cgrand's blog post basically obsoletes my whole lib...
08:49	chouser	yeah, I knew of his post, as well as fill-queue in contrib and seque in core
08:49	chouser	but none of them are sufficient, at least as they are.
08:50	chouser	I need to be able to poll the queue without blocking and know whether or not I reached the end
08:53	Raynes	Aw man. I can't find my key. :<
08:54	Raynes	Islon: That's because a defrecord is just a Java class.
08:55	Raynes	&(find-my-keys)
08:55	sexpbot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: find-my-keys in this context
08:55	Raynes	The one thing that Clojure can't do for me. :<
08:57	@rhickey	chouser: terminable queues are almost always done with 'poison' messages
08:58	chouser	rhickey: yeah. for good reason, as I see here staring at the inevitably complex coordination of two separate mutable things
08:59	@rhickey	right
08:59	chouser	Maybe more careful use of a final non-blocking poll will be sufficient.
09:01	Raynes	chouser: Do you happen to know when the last time you somehow dropped from IRC was?
09:01	Raynes	Don't think I've ever seen you not here at any given time.
09:03	Raynes	I remember you asking me if sexpbot's logging would more stable than your irssi a while back, and I told you no. I've moved it to a lovely Linode, so, server Gods willing, I should have pleasant uptime from here on out.
09:05	chouser	Looks like I rejoined 2010-11-27.log:14:02, 2010-11-20.log:08:14, 2010-11-17.log:00:36, 2010-11-16.log:04:22, etc...
09:07	Raynes	I hereby declare War of the Logs.
09:07	chouser	I concede
09:07	Raynes	:p
10:05	fliebel	Morning! Thanks to UGT I can now have as many mornings as I want.
10:05	hoeck	fliebel: Morning, me too :)
10:07	Raynes	That's all folks! Final score: Right: 65, Wrong: 35, Percentage: 65
10:07	Raynes	fliebel: ^ I'm so ashamed. x_x
10:07	Raynes	Those damned atom questions got me.
10:08	fliebel	Raynes: I usually lose points on interop. proxy and such.
10:08	fliebel	And of course silly typos and a missing !
10:09	fliebel	I will try a full run and report...
10:09	Raynes	That 100 run took a while.
10:09	Raynes	You can do 50 if you bind number to 50.
10:09	fliebel	I know, but that is cheating.
10:10	Raynes	Hehe
10:12	fliebel	Can I peak at the docs? :D
10:14	raek	is this some kind of clojure quiz?
10:14	fliebel	yea
10:14	raek	is it oline?
10:14	fliebel	http://github.com/pepijndevos/clojure-quiz
10:16	fliebel	Oh, these kill me… rest or next returns nil, can't remeber which one
10:16	fliebel	wrong :(
10:17	raek	which one of the quizes are you doing? :)
10:18	fliebel	name-wuiz
10:18	fliebel	*quiz
10:21	raek	the answer to the first question was replicate. I answered repeat....
10:22	fliebel	Hrm, Are those * fns public? It asked for with-bindings*
10:24	fliebel	These also feel unfair: find-namespace Incorrect! Was: find-ns
10:27	fliebel	ouch, I'm falling below 50%, due to a lot of small differences, like select vs select-keys and => vs <
10:28	fliebel	s/50/60/
10:28	sexpbot	<fliebel> ouch, I'm falling below 60%, due to a lot of small differences, like select vs select-keys and => vs <
10:40	raek	heh, this is fun :)
10:40	fliebel	what's your score?
10:40	raek	it would be very nice to have a web-based version of this
10:40	Raynes	raek: Are you running the latest checkout?
10:40	raek	I haven't played a whole round yet
10:41	fliebel	raek: I'm thinking of adding it to sexpbot or tryclojure
10:41	raek	I just looked at it while my code was compiling
10:41	raek	since it was C++, I had plenty of time
10:42	Raynes	fliebel: You could do that. If you wanted, you could even make it into a standalone web application and I'd be happy to host it for you at clojure-quiz.raynes.me or similar. <3
10:43	fliebel	Whatever is best. I could easily take moustache and ring and make you some, btu tryclojure is already a place to play and leanr clojure.
10:44	Raynes	tryclojure would be an excellent place for it if you can figure it out. I'm cool with it either way.
10:44	fliebel	I never looked at it.
10:45	fliebel	Damn, telling reverse/rseq, rest/next, etc is hard :(
10:46	Raynes	I knew next over rest because next can return nil while rest always returns a seq.
10:46	fliebel	I knew one of them did this...
10:47	fliebel	and reverse/rseq has something in constant time.
10:47	fliebel	btu which one...
10:48	fliebel	Right: 64, Wrong: 36, Percentage: 64
10:48	fliebel	Raynes: Quite close to yours
10:48	Raynes	"?
10:48	Raynes	:>*
10:50	fliebel	I wonder how raek is doing… We really need a score board.
10:52	raek	I'm compiling again, so I guess I could give it a try... :-)
11:03	Chousuke	hmm, doc-quiz is too easy :P
11:03	jaley	hi guys, question on persistent structures and memory usage: when are copies or new instances created? will the hash-map, sorted-map, function always create a full copy of the original data?
11:06	Chousuke	jaley: hash-map and sorted-map are constructors so they can't make use of structural sharing, but remember that all objects are stored by reference, not by value.
11:07	Chousuke	jaley: the "modifying" operators however do share structure with the original object
11:07	Chousuke	original data structure, rather
11:08	jaley	Chousuke: cool. so the size of (apply hash-map (map some-fn other-collection)) is going to be size-of-ref * size-of-collection, probably?
11:09	Chousuke	not sure what you mean by that.
11:09	jaley	Chousuke: well I just mean create a map from a collection of strings, for example, there will be no more copies of the strings, just references to them
11:09	Chousuke	there's also some overhead from the actual data structure
11:09	Chousuke	That's correct.
11:10	jaley	Chousuke: awesome, thanks. bang goes that theory on why my app is using >100mb of heap then
11:10	Chousuke	jaley: you might be holding onto a lazy seq somewhere
11:10	Chousuke	preventing it from being gc'd
11:11	Chousuke	also any substrings you might use prevent the parent string from being gc'd IIRC
11:11	jaley	Chousuke: oh that's interesting. I'm using a webservice that returns a massive mangled string that i have to split up
11:12	Chousuke	hmm
11:12	Chousuke	sounds like you might be holding onto the entire string if you're using substrings.
11:15	jaley	perhaps... i'll use a profiler and see what object types are occupying the heap, if i can do that somehow.
11:15	Chousuke	Clojure should work just fine with Java profilers
11:16	raek	fliebel: Raynes: "That's all folks! Final score: Right: 72, Wrong: 28, Percentage: 72"
11:16	jaley	Chousuke: cool. thanks for your advice, I'll have a look around for a profiler
11:17	_na_ka_na_	hey guys any idea how to avoid reflection on this piece of code
11:17	_na_ka_na_	(defn d [coll] (java.util.Arrays/sort (into-array Object coll)))
11:17	_na_ka_na_	(defn d [coll] (java.util.Arrays/sort (with-meta {:tag "[Object;"} (into-array Object coll))))
11:17	_na_ka_na_	^ doesn't work
11:18	raek	with-meta takes the args in the opposite order
11:18	raek	also, you need to add metadata to the code that the complier receives
11:18	raek	not to the value in runtime
11:19	raek	_na_ka_na_: is it the java.util.Arrays/sort call it has to use reflection for?
11:19	_na_ka_na_	raek: yes
11:20	_na_ka_na_	raek: you are right about with-meta, reversing the order didn't help either
11:22	cemerick	_na_ka_na_: you want: (Arrays/sort ^"[Ljava.lang.Object;" a)
11:23	raek	ah, the "L"... that's why my test in my repl didn't work...
11:23	cemerick	yup, array-of :-P
11:24	_na_ka_na_	cemerick: thanks it works! (defn d [coll] (java.util.Arrays/sort (let [^"[Ljava.lang.Object;" arr (into-array Object coll)] arr)))
11:24	_na_ka_na_	any easier way to write ^
11:24	Chousuke	^objects ?
11:24	KirinDave	Yeah doesn't ^objects work?
11:25	cemerick	Oh, sure; I figured the Object hint was just a placeholder… :-/
11:25	KirinDave	Every time I see the underlying notation I cringe. :\
11:25	_na_ka_na_	ya its a placeholder
11:25	_na_ka_na_	but I mean easier way as in w/o the let
11:26	_na_ka_na_	it looks ugly
11:26	cemerick	Right, so if you actually have an array of com.foo.Bar, then you really do need to use the string/hosty hint notation.
11:26	KirinDave	I can't help but think there is syntax missing there.
11:27	_na_ka_na_	this also seems to work
11:27	_na_ka_na_	(defn d [coll] (java.util.Arrays/sort ^"[Ljava.lang.Object;" (into-array Object coll)))
11:27	KirinDave	That in meta decls, (array-of my.class.Name) sort of thing?
11:27	_na_ka_na_	is that syntax correct?
11:27	cemerick	_na_ka_na_: yes, that's fine
11:27	_na_ka_na_	cemerick: hmm, many thanks
11:29	bsteuber	does anyone have pointers for using clojure-1.3.0-alpha3 with swank?
11:29	cemerick	KirinDave: the :tag metadata slot can only be a string naming a class in full or a symbol naming a class imported in the current ns, IIRC.
11:29	KirinDave	cemerick: Right, but that could always be generated.
11:30	KirinDave	cemerick: I think the bigger problem with that oh-so-reasonable suggestion is that clojure is not a world where lexically scoped syntax extensions are the norm, or popular.
11:30	KirinDave	cemerick: There's a library to do it, but I have only seen that in use in the wild a half-handfull of times
11:33	cemerick	True enough…though I think we're better off for it.
11:33	KirinDave	The common lisp guys would disagree with you.
11:34	cemerick	heh, on larger things than this! :-P
11:34	cemerick	The case here is an odd one, insofar as nonprimitive and non-Object arrays are relatively rare.
11:34	KirinDave	I can see the logic for not allowing symbol macros. The logic of not allowing macrolet does confuse mea little.
11:34	KirinDave	cemerick: Indeed.
11:35	cemerick	Some flavour of the latter is in the works, or so I heard rumored.
11:35	KirinDave	That's good. The real place I've seen macrolet used is inside of macros.
11:35	KirinDave	So cemerick, in line with our conversation last night, I've been thinking hard about protocols.
11:36	KirinDave	And I remembered a question someone on hn asked me about protocols I had mentally shelved.
11:36	jweiss	is there a recommended way to access protected fields of a java class?
11:36	KirinDave	Specifically, someone asked, "How does one go about using the current protocol system to extend existing classes? Can you?"
11:37	cemerick	jweiss: see the fns in clojure.reflect.java
11:37	KirinDave	I think he meant to ask, for example, how one might make a case insensitive string Map or something else like that
11:37	KirinDave	Where there is only an incremental difference from a parent class.
11:39	cemerick	KirinDave: Protocols can't override or otherwise impact the behaviour of an existing class' implementation.
11:39	KirinDave	cemerick: Right.
11:39	KirinDave	cemerick: So youd probably start by using a has-a relationship
11:39	KirinDave	cemerick: Make an internal field carrying a map and try to incercept mappy calls
11:39	cemerick	One can extend a protocol such that it will dispatch as you like for a given type, with an implementation of the fn/method in question.
11:39	KirinDave	Right
11:40	cemerick	Yeah, it's a job for proxy.
11:40	KirinDave	Oh? I didn't know proxy could operate on protocols.
11:40	cemerick	Protocols have no hand in the task at all.
11:41	cemerick	Talking about changing behaviour of some extension of a concrete class and defining abstractions that can be extended to existing types never meet.
11:41	KirinDave	cemerick: Oh, I'm sorry... let me clarify. This is in the hypothetical world where protocols and types rule the roost in joint benevolence with multi-methods.
11:41	KirinDave	In other words, thought-experiment land.
11:41	cemerick	But, proxy can certainly participate in protocols by implementing the interfaces they generate.
11:42	KirinDave	In other words, this is thought-experiment land. )
11:43	KirinDave	Do you need behavior inheritence elsewhere in addition to these tools 1.2 provides, or are they sufficient on their own.
11:44	cemerick	So, if there was a Map protocol (rather than simply j.u.Map and c.l.IPM right now), then you could extend the get, assoc, etc fns in that protocol to your concrete existing class and get string-insensitivity on lookups, etc.
11:44	KirinDave	Right
11:44	KirinDave	Seems like that's a lot of work for incremental changes.
11:45	KirinDave	You couldn't really just do a little bit of it;
11:45	KirinDave	You'd have to do all of it
11:45	cemerick	Right.
11:45	cemerick	Implementing core abstractions (like maps, seqs, etc) in terms of protocols is definitely on the drawing board, and it will make a lot of fantastic stuff possible, including the above scenario.
11:45	KirinDave	Right
11:45	KirinDave	I wonder if there is another structure though.
11:45	cemerick	Not in the near (or even potentially medium-) term though.
11:46	cemerick	That's why I mentioned proxy.
11:46	KirinDave	A behavior, like scala traits. I understand that this is kinda against charter (which I read over again carefully)
11:46	KirinDave	At the very least, I've got something nearly done for clothesline that lets me write a default behavior
11:46	jfields	,(get-in {:a :b :c :d} nil)
11:46	clojurebot	{:a :b, :c :d}
11:46	cemerick	If you're really just subclassing an existing impl, proxy will let you do the same sort of gruntwork that hosty subclassing allows.
11:46	KirinDave	Doing so was a surprisingly big job
11:46	jfields	really? get-in with nil returns all the elements?
11:47	KirinDave	For one, you have to make both a static and dynamic version of the behavior.
11:47	cemerick	jfields: as opposed to?
11:47	jfields	,(get {:a :b :c :d} nil)
11:47	clojurebot	nil
11:48	jfields	that's what I'd expect from get-in as well.
11:48	raek	,(get-in {:a :b :c :d} [])
11:48	clojurebot	{:a :b, :c :d}
11:49	raek	well, it "follows" zero keys into the structure...
11:49	Islon	where's the "join" or "str-join" function in clojure 1.2?
11:49	cemerick	jfields: Not sure I follow the expectation. get returns the value mapped to the given key. get-in expects a seq of keys; if you provide it with none, then it gives you what it has.
11:49	raek	Islon: clojure.string
11:50	cemerick	Islon: there's also just (apply str …) shrug
11:50	raek	(require '[clojure.string :as str]) (str/join ....)
11:50	jfields	cemerick, it makes sense, but I don't think it's the most obvious result.
11:51	Islon	thanks, i googled it and found lots of different stuff and namespaces
11:51	KirinDave	cemerick: It might be because #(let [something-outside nil] (get-in {:a :b :c :d} nil ::not-found))
11:51	KirinDave	Oh, I thought there was a bot listening for #()
11:51	KirinDave	,(let [something-outside nil] (get-in {:a :b :c :d} nil ::not-found))
11:51	clojurebot	{:a :b, :c :d}
11:51	KirinDave	That can be a surprising result if it's nested deep in some code and client code passes you something you don't expect
11:51	raek	,(let [m {:a {:b {:c 0}}}] [(get-in m [:a :b :c]) (get-in m [:a :b]) (get-in m [:a]) (get-in m [])])
11:52	clojurebot	[0 {:c 0} {:b {:c 0}} {:a {:b {:c 0}}}]
11:52	raek	I think it follows a clear pattern
11:52	cemerick	KirinDave: the not-found value isn't involved here
11:52	KirinDave	cemerick: Right.
11:53	KirinDave	cemerick: That's the only place where I think it might be surprising, tho.
11:53	cemerick	oh, I see what you're saying
11:54	KirinDave	The way the docs are written suggests that not-found-val will come up.
11:54	cemerick	eh, only if a given key isn't present
11:54	cemerick	if you don't provide any keys, then…
11:54	cemerick	raek had the progression right
11:54	joly	all (0) provided keys are present
11:55	cemerick	But then, I'm mostly alone in not really having any issue with Clojure's existing docs. :-P
11:56	KirinDave	No I agree with raek. But I also have been bitten by expecting default values when they were not actually applicable.:)
12:03	jaley	what's the "same instance" equality test?
12:04	jaley	(i mean which function)
12:07	cemerick	jaley: you probably mean identical?
12:08	jaley	cemerick: that's the one, thanks
12:36	raek	fliebel: Raynes: regarding webification of clojure-quiz, I guess 'quiz' is what needs to be replaced, correct?
12:38	raek	or are any of you working on this now?
12:42	jweiss	i am using leiningen checkouts directory to add a dependent project. but my classpath only includes checkouts/dep/classes, not checkouts/dep/lib/*
12:42	jweiss	any suggestion what might be wrong
12:42	technomancy	jweiss: no, that's correct
12:43	technomancy	the checkouts dir isn't meant to replace :dependencies in project.clj; just to augment it.
12:44	jweiss	technomancy: hm, so is there some other way to get the deps in my project other than listing all the dep's deps?
12:44	technomancy	yeah, just add it to :dependencies like usual
12:45	joegallo	jweiss: that is, you have a dependency on a, and it also happens to be a checkout.
12:45	oconnore	How do I initialize a templated java class? All the java interoperability examples I can find are too simplistic. For example, (new ArrayList<Integer>) doesn't work.
12:45	jweiss	i don't think i've ever added a project as a dependency before, just libs from repos
12:47	technomancy	there's really no difference
12:48	technomancy	if the project hasn't been uploaded to a public repo then you'll need to "lein install" it first; that's all
12:50	jweiss	technomancy: ah ok that is the step i was missing, thanks
12:56	oconnore	anyone?
12:56	clojurebot	Please do not ask if anyone uses, knows, is good with, can help you with <some program or library>. Instead, ask your real question and someone will answer if they can help.
12:56	oconnore	Dear clojurebot, I already did that you cheeky bastard :P
12:57	jfields	oconnore, if you want an ArrayList just use (ArrayList. )
12:58	jfields	afaik, clojure doesn't really provide support for generics
12:58	Chousuke	generics don't matter to clojure since it does no static checking anyway.
12:58	raek	oconnore: generics is checked when java code is compiled. at the JVM level, there is only ArrayList<Object>
12:59	jfields	oconnore, if you know the size and it doesn't shrink or grow you can also look at http://clojure.github.com/clojure/clojure.core-api.html#clojure.core/int-array
13:00	hiredman	oconnore: you should also do some reading so next time when you ask you can use the real name of that language feature instead of just guessing
13:00	jfields	oconnore, or you can look at http://clojure.github.com/clojure/clojure.core-api.html#clojure.core/make-array
13:02	replaca	hiredman: did you see that clojurebot was spewing nulls into the channel when checkins to clojure or clojure-contrib happen?
13:02	oconnore	ok, thanks for your help everyone
13:02	hiredman	replaca: yes, turned it off until I get time to investigate
13:05	fliebel	raek: Nice score. Nope, I'm not working on it.
13:05	replaca	hiredman: cool. just wanted to make sure you knew
13:06	hiredman	yep, thanks
13:15	benzen	hi guys
13:15	benzen	i've got a issue with the core template functions
13:16	benzen	can some one help me?
13:16	chouser	what functions in core are for templates?
13:17	benzen	i would like to use apply-template
13:17	chouser	is that in some lib? I don't see it in clojure.core
13:17	benzen	but i've got this message java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: apply-template in this context
13:18	benzen	sorry it's in clojure.template
13:19	chouser	try this first: (use '[clojure.template :only [apply-template]])
13:21	benzen	thanks
13:21	benzen	effectivelly it work
13:21	benzen	works
13:22	benzen	an other question
13:22	benzen	I've red that it's better to use ":use" inside the ns macro over the use function/macro
13:23	chouser	sure, at the top of the file.
13:23	raek	that is where you usually put it
13:23	benzen	can you explain why it 's better please
13:25	raek	benzen: if you have a (:use ...) in your ns form it expands to a (use '...)
13:25	raek	so they are equivalent
13:25	chouser	it's more declarative, gives you a tidy place to put all such declarations so that people and tools can find it easily
13:25	benzen	ok thanks
13:27	benzen	I,ve some diffculty to understand the ns macro
13:27	benzen	Do you know a place where it's well explained
13:27	benzen	I've seen the official api doc, but it's still some what vague to me
13:28	benzen	maybe a blog
13:28	raek	clojure.org/libs is a start
13:28	benzen	ah nice
13:29	benzen	one more time thanks
13:29	raek	'require' makes sure that a namespace is loaded. 'use' does what require does + vars in that ns can be used without a namespace prefix
13:30	raek	(you can always refer to a var (after it has been load) with a fully qualified symbol: clojure.core/conj)
13:31	raek	require and use takes options
13:31	raek	(:require foo.bar) = (:require [foo.bar])
13:32	raek	(require [foo.bar :as fb])
13:32	benzen	you gave me good reading, i'll work on that
13:44	Raynes	raek: I'm not doing anything with it.
13:44	Raynes	I'm about to pass out. I've been awake 21 hours.
13:47	LauJensen	Raynes: My record is wednesday morning at around 08:00, to monday late afternoon at about 18:00 :)
13:49	Raynes	I don't think I've ever surpassed 48 hours without being taken over by narcolepsy and hallucinations.
13:51	LauJensen	Odd. I was about your age actually. But get some sleep buddy, we'll code tomorrow :)
15:06	joshua__	How would you go about wrapping one function in a function returned by another function in clojure? Like: (create-new-function function) would be able to pass all the args to function. Really this is more about how to pass arguments than anything else.
15:08	tonyl	you could use & and apply like this (defn create-new-fn [f & args] (apply f args))
15:08	tonyl	every argument passed after f (signaled by &) would be a vector of the arguments so apply would do the rest
15:09	joshua__	I mean more like.. create-new-func returns a function wrapped in another function.
15:10	joshua__	Now how do I make sure that the wrapping function passes the aruments to the first function? Can you do something like (fn [& args] (apply func-from-closure args))
15:11	dnolen	(fn [f] (fn [& args] (apply f args)))
15:11	tonyl	like this? (defn make-fn [f & args] (fn [] (apply f args)))
15:12	joshua__	dnolen thank you that looks like what I'm talking about.
15:12	joshua__	tonyl: dnolens example seems much closer.
15:14	joshua__	Okay next question.. given (fn [f] (fn [& args] (if condition (apply f args) (recur args)))) would recur on the inner function right?
15:14	sandGorgon	are there any examples of web applications (source code I mean) written in clojure - I know of "cow-blog". It would be nice to see something using various components like Sandbar (for authentication), Enlive (for templating), etc.
15:15	tonyl	joshua__: yes, the inner fn takes preference
15:15	joshua__	alright, and its fine to pass in args? You don't need something like (apply recur args)
15:16	brehaut	sandGorgon: laujensen's site is on github
15:16	brehaut	sandGorgon: it uses enlive
15:16	brehaut	sandGorgon: https://github.com/LauJensen/bestinclass.dk
15:16	sandGorgon	brehaut, thanks!
15:17	brehaut	sandGorgon: no worries
15:17	LauJensen	sandGorgon: Check out admin.clj for most of the backend logic
15:17	tonyl	joshua__: no recur only needs the loop bindings or fn arguments, in this case the arguuments
15:17	sandGorgon	LauJensen, will do .. thanks!
15:17	Raynes	http://github.com/Raynes/tryclojure is a simpler example.
15:17	brehaut	sandGorgon: have you seen dnolen
15:18	brehaut	s enlive tutorial?
15:18	joshua__	https://github.com/jColeChanged/mysite this is written in clojure, but by me so it is going to be really really bad.
15:18	sandGorgon	brehaut, yep
15:19	sandGorgon	joshua__, thanks all the same ;)
15:19	brehaut	joshua__: have you realised you've been commiting your emacs backups?
15:19	joshua__	sites location is here: http://jcolessite.appspot.com/
15:20	joshua__	I haven't learned how to stop that yet =p
15:20	joshua__	if you read the current commit that is actually what I'm talking about..
15:20	joshua__	partially
15:20	brehaut	joshua__: http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/gitignore.html
15:21	joshua__	Might as well ask the other related question. Lets say I've deleted a file, but didn't delete it by doing git remove filename.. how do I remove it now?
15:22	brehaut	git rm filename
15:22	Raynes	joshua__: https://gist.github.com/724148
15:22	brehaut	git figures out what you meant
15:23	Raynes	joshua__: That'll push all future backup files to ~/.saves
15:23	Raynes	Which is a much more convenient place than all over your file system.
15:23	brehaut	Raynes: cheers :)
15:23	joshua__	Nice! I had something like that for vim, but didn't think to set it up for emacs.
15:24	Raynes	You'll still get autosave files (ones that start with # and .#) if you don't save your files quick enough, but they're automatically deleted once you do save those files.
15:25	joshua__	Raynes: Thankyou!
15:37	fliebel	raek: ping
15:51	joshua__	Alright so this is going right back to my question earlier about recur, because I'm getting an error saying that recure expected 0 arguments and only got one.
15:51	joshua__	http://clojure.pastebin.com/sBZELFcq
15:51	joshua__	Is the code.
15:51	joshua__	Could anyone let me know why the recur call is failing?
15:52	erohtar	seems like ur calling recur with one argument - a list
15:52	hiredman	you cannot recur across a dosync like that
15:52	fliebel	and if you do it like that, I think you would at least nee something like (apply recur more)
15:53	hiredman	fliebel: also not doable
15:53	fliebel	hiredman: I guess not, but now he's passing alist right into his vararg.
15:54	hiredman	well the way you do that is (recure [more])
15:54	hiredman	well the way you do that is (recur [more])
15:54	tonyl	make it a vector maybe
15:54	joshua__	[more] will fix the problem of passing a list?
15:55	hiredman	yes
15:55	joshua__	Why? Doesn't that just make it a list of a list?
15:55	tonyl	(vec more)
15:55	hiredman	no
15:55	hiredman	tonyl: please stop
15:55	hiredman	that is how you recur to a var args
15:56	raek	fliebel: pong
15:57	fliebel	raek: You said something about the web thing for clojure quiz, but then we missed each other.
15:57	Chousuke	the recur there doesn't work because of the dosync
15:57	joshua__	Well, now that I'm thinking about it I can see why recuring inside a dosync would be a nogo, but why is the recur saying that it expects zero arguments (regardless of whether or not it is using [more] or more). Is it trying to recur to the dosync?
15:57	hiredman	joshua__: because of the dosync
15:57	Chousuke	but in general, treat varargs as if they were a single list argument.
15:57	hiredman	the dosync is creating a thunk inside there
15:58	Chousuke	joshua__: what you can do is not have the dosync at all in the function
15:58	joshua__	is thunk a technical term I don't know about or just a figure of speech>
15:58	brehaut	its a technical term
15:58	opqdonut	techincal term
15:58	Chousuke	and just require that users do (dosync (rate-limit whatever...))
15:58	opqdonut	for an unevaluated closure
15:59	opqdonut	generated by a lazy computation
15:59	fliebel	raek: Did you intent to make it, or where you just informing?
15:59	raek	fliebel: I was thinking about it
15:59	hiredman	~google thunk
15:59	clojurebot	First, out of 474000 results is:
15:59	clojurebot	Thunk - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
15:59	clojurebot	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunk
15:59	raek	but not tonight
16:00	fliebel	raek: Me neither, and if you want to do it, go ahead. :)
16:01	fliebel	raek: If you don't, it's on my somewhere-in-the-next-ten-years-but-brobably-earlyer list. ;)
16:01	joshua__	I'd rather hide the dosync. Could I just wrap the function that is returned in a function that calls dosync?
16:02	hiredman	sure
16:03	joshua__	Sweet. Thanks guys. This would have been so hard to figure out on my own.
16:03	hiredman	you could loop inside a dosync too
16:03	hiredman	(but looping in a transaction, even recuring inside one, is a bad idea)
16:03	fliebel	hiredman: But isn't it a good idea to keep dosyncs as small as possible?
16:03	hiredman	(like really bad)
16:04	Chousuke	joshua__: don't hide dosyncs :/
16:04	Chousuke	explicit is good
16:04	hiredman	hiding dosyncs is fine
16:04	hiredman	they are nestable
16:05	Chousuke	though honestly, that function looks complicated enough that I'm not sure of its correctness. :P
16:05	joshua__	It works. =) Sort of.
16:05	hiredman	joshua__: putting a thread sleep like that inside a transaction is a horrible idea
16:06	brehaut	joshua__: a surprising number of things work without being correct ;)
16:07	joshua__	hiredman: Can you explain why? I'm guessing that it has something to do with other transactions causing aborts or something like that.
16:07	joshua__	brehaut: ;p like internet explorer
16:08	brehaut	ie works?
16:09	hiredman	joshua__: right, your transaction will never complete, and behave oddly when retried
16:09	hiredman	Thread/sleep is a side effect and transactions should be side effect free
16:09	joshua__	hiredman: So I guess the thing to do would be to leave the recursive trying in another function outside the transaction.
16:11	hiredman	depends what the function does, I try not to read code beyond the point of diagnosing the given problem, so I don't really remember anything else about your code
16:13	joshua__	In general: It tries to rate limit the number of times a function can be called. It gives the option of trying the function again when doing so is within capacity or of dropping the call entirely.
16:16	hiredman	joshua__: I don't see why you would need stm for that
16:17	hiredman	sounds like it should be implemented like memoize
16:17	joshua__	hiredman: I'm not sure how else to save state between function calls.
16:17	hiredman	with atom holding the last time the function was called
16:17	hiredman	look at memoize in core
16:26	kotarak	joshua__: sounds like a kind of circuit breaker?
16:54	mvid_	is there a way i can use the key and the value in a function when i apply "map" to a hash-map?
16:55	brehaut	,(map + {1 2 3 4})
16:55	clojurebot	java.lang.ClassCastException
16:55	brehaut	oh right
16:55	brehaut	,(map (fn [[k v] (+ k v)) { 1 2 3 4})
16:55	clojurebot	Unmatched delimiter: )
16:55	brehaut	,(map (fn [[k v]] (+ k v)) { 1 2 3 4})
16:55	clojurebot	(3 7)
16:56	brehaut	mvid_: like that?
16:56	mvid_	cool
16:56	mvid_	that's great
16:56	mvid_	plus points for brehaut
16:59	chouser	(inc brehaut)
16:59	sexpbot	⟹ 1
17:00	brehaut	hah awesome :)
17:10	brehaut	whats the current state of textmate support for clojure?
17:11	Makoryu	brehaut: On a scale of 1 to 10: "Good luck"
17:11	brehaut	still? bah
17:12	Makoryu	I think there's third-party syntax highlighting support, if nothing else
17:12	brehaut	yeah ive got a really old syntax highlighting mode
17:12	Makoryu	But don't ever expect TextMate to understand Lisp-style indentation
17:14	lrenn	brehaut: https://github.com/swannodette/textmate-clojure
17:14	brehaut	lrenn: cheers
17:14	brehaut	(inc lrenn)
17:14	sexpbot	⟹ 1
17:16	arohner	is there a paredit command that will turn (foo a b (bar c d)) into (bar c d (foo a b))?
17:30	bhenry	how is it that merely adding a dependency can break one of my existing, otherwise working function calls?
17:31	raek	using use?
17:33	islon	how don't I fully qualify a name inside a macro?
17:33	joshua__	Alright, so I want to make a macro that will let me do something like (def var (rate-limited-function func rate)) as (defrl func rate) how do I do this?
17:33	raek	islon: that depends on what you want to do...
17:33	joshua__	(defrl var func rate) rather
17:33	mvid_	is there a way to pretty print a sequence or map of strings?
17:34	islon	raek: something like (defmethod [parameter] ...) inside the macro, parameter can't be qualified
17:34	mvid_	im tired of ljava.lang.String90327879438752
17:34	raek	you can write parameter# in that case
17:35	islon	but i want to know the name
17:35	islon	because i will get the body from outside and it will use the parameter name
17:36	raek	then you can do the ~'foo trick
17:36	islon	exactly what i want! thanks
17:36	brehaut	joshua__: (defmacro defrlf [name func rate] `(def var ~name (rate-limited-function ~func ~rate))) i think ?
17:37	brehaut	joshua__ note the back tick rather than quote on the macro and the unquote twiddles on the args to the macro
17:38	brehaut	joshua__: you can test it with (macroexpand '(defrlf a b 10))
17:38	joshua__	kk =)
17:39	brehaut	joshua__: and read http://clojure.org/reader to brush up on the reader tricks those twiddles and stuff represent at http://clojure.org/reader under 'macro characters'
17:40	brehaut	syntax-quote in particular
17:47	bhenry	i had a working function, and after adding incanter to my dependencies in project.clj (never changed any of the src files), one of my function calls in myproject.core no longer works.
17:48	brehaut	bhenry: this is a wild guess, perhaps incanter requires a different version of a dependancy that you use? i have no idea how lein/maven resolve that sort of thing
17:54	joshua__	yeay yeay yeay
17:54	joshua__	working!
17:54	islon	does anyone knows why this macro only works for the last defmethod not the first? http://pastebin.com/8QRnjXYt
17:59	brehaut	islon preumably defmacro is like any other form with an implicit do; ie only the last form is ever returned
17:59	brehaut	islon try switching to a cond and you should be fine
18:00	islon	brehaut, i'll try a cond
18:01	joshua__	How can I keep emacs from indenting my comments all the way across the page in cl the mojure mode?
18:01	joshua__	*in clojure mode?
18:01	joshua__	; how do I stop this?
18:02	hiredman	use ;;
18:02	hiredman	;; is for blocks
18:02	hiredman	(+ 1 2) ; is for comments on a line of code
18:02	clojurebot	3
18:03	rasactive	clojurebot just evals any expression?
18:03	islon	brehaut, now only the first one works... =/
18:03	brehaut	how are you invoking gen-skill-methods ?
18:03	brehaut	anything truthy will trigger the first form
18:04	islon	both are supposed to work at the same time
18:04	brehaut	ah right. i have no idea if thats possible sorry. you'll need someone with more macro fu than i have
18:04	islon	brehaut, thanks anyway
18:05	brehaut	ah actually
18:05	hiredman	rasactive: nope
18:06	brehaut	islon: (defmacro f [] `(do (def a 1)(def b 2))) gets you part of the way there
18:06	islon	hmmm... lets try
18:06	rasactive	hiredman, how do you make "him" eval something?
18:06	rasactive	i'm assuming 3 came from your (+ 1 2)
18:07	islon	rasactive: ,(expressions) i think
18:07	islon	,(+ 3 3)
18:07	clojurebot	6
18:07	rasactive	cool, thanks
18:09	brehaut	islon: (defmacro m [a b] (let [da (when a `(def my-a ~a)) db (when b `(def my-b ~b))] `(do ~da ~db)))
18:09	brehaut	islon that might be considered horrible though
18:09	brehaut	islon: till i get told otherwise i'd categorise that as a nasty hack
18:10	islon	i'll try do first
18:16	joshua__	,(+ 1 2)
18:16	clojurebot	3
18:35	bhenry	brehaut: you were correct. incanter has an older version of mongo-java-driver…jar and after deleting that my original code works again. question is now… since both libs that require mongo-java-driver are third party, how do i exclude that older jar automatically? perhaps that should be directed at technomancy or another lein pro?
18:36	technomancy	it's in the faq
18:36	brehaut	bhenry: lein pros
18:36	technomancy	wait... incanter has a mongo driver‽ o_O
18:37	bhenry	[incanter "1.2.3"] requires incanter/incanter-mongodb 1.2.3 which i assume is what's pulling that.
18:37	technomancy	maybe I have no idea what incanter actually is, but that sounds crazy to me.
18:37	brehaut	crazy statisticians
18:39	bmart	hi all, i'm trying to set up swank-clojure and slime and am running into some issues
18:39	bmart	specifically, i do slime-connect which succeeds with a warning
18:39	bmart	if i then evaluate a number, e.g., 3, it succeeds
18:39	bmart	but if I enter an expression like (+ 1 2), nothing happens
18:39	bmart	suggestions?
18:46	islon	brehaut, the "let" version worked =D
18:48	brehaut	islon: cool :) its a bit hacky though
18:50	islon	coulnd't find a better way
18:53	brehaut	islon maybe have a look at the extends-protocol macro? im sure there are some examples in core that might show you a better way
18:54	islon	i'll take a look
19:19	clizzin	i've got a case where i want to be able to specify what java class i want to use as an argument to a function. i'm trying something like (defn foo [subclass] (new subclass)), but that says it's unable to resolve instance-type as a classname. is there any way i can achieve my desired behaviour?
19:49	clizzin	anyone know how to increase heap space for the jvm when using lein swank?
19:49	islon	clizzin, (defmacro foo [clazz] `(new ~clazz))
19:50	islon	or better (defmacro foo [clazz & args] `(new ~clazz ~@args))
19:51	tomoj	clizzin: try JAVA_OPTS
19:51	clizzin	islon, tomoj: thanks!
19:52	clizzin	tomoj: nothing i can set from lein swank? i don't want to allocate this much heap space every time, just for a few things i'm doing
19:53	tomoj	if JAVA_OPTS works, it works that way
19:54	tomoj	JAVA_OPTS=-Xmx1000m lein swank
19:54	islon	brehaut, I think thats what I'm looking for https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/b578c69d7480f621841ebcafdfa98e33fcb765f6/src/clj/clojure/core.clj#L2309
20:04	vIkSiT	'lo all
20:04	vIkSiT	has anyone done any logfile tailing/stream processing?
20:04	clizzin	tomoj: wouldn't JAVA_OPTS=-Xmx1000m lein swank cause any java process to attempt to run lein swank?
20:09	clizzin	hmmm the JAVA_OPTS attempt doesn't seem to have worked
20:11	brehaut	islon: cool thanks
20:11	islon	brehaut, worked as a charm =)
20:21	tomoj	clizzin: I meant run that command
20:22	tomoj	don't set JAVA_OPTS to "-Xmx1000m lein swank", just type `JAVA_OPTS=-Xmx1000m lein swank` into the shell
20:25	clizzin	tomoj: i see. so forgive my ignorance, but lein swank seems to actually start two processes, and i'm not sure what each is for. the first has the JAVA_OPTS amount of heap space, but the second one is the actual jvm that my repl commands run on, and that one still has the default amount of heap space.
20:27	tomoj	weird
20:27	tomoj	for me they both have my custom heap space
20:29	clizzin	hm that is odd indeed
20:30	tomoj	lein -v ?
20:31	clizzin	1.3.1
20:31	clizzin	full version string: Leiningen 1.3.1 on Java 1.6.0_22 Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM
20:31	clizzin	swank clojure 1.2.1
20:32	clizzin	oh wait, no, swank-clojure 1.3.0-snapshot. interesting, i wonder when someone on my team updated that.
20:35	technomancy	clizzin: you can set :jvm-opts in project.clj if you only want it applied to the project's JVM
20:36	tomoj	technomancy: but the project JVM should inherit JAVA_OPTS, right?
20:37	technomancy	tomoj: yeah, but lein's JVM doesn't need a gig
20:37	tomoj	right
20:37	technomancy	oh, I see; it's not propagating
20:37	technomancy	that is strange
20:37	technomancy	:jvm-opts is preferrable; does it work?
20:39	clizzin	technomancy: ah, thanks for the tip. just looked, and someone already set jvm-opts to a different heap size, hence the lack of propagation. so that solves that problem.
20:39	technomancy	dun dun dun!
20:39	clizzin	sorry tomoj and technomancy, still getting used to all the details of this stuff ;)
20:40	technomancy	thwarted by a so-called team-mate.
20:40	technomancy	it happens; there's a lot to take it. I recommend a perusal of sample.project.clj.
20:40	islon	is there a way on cake to kill only the swank server?
20:41	joshua__	Question: How do you abort a command running on your emacs slime swank repl?
20:41	joshua__	Like C-z in python?
20:42	tomoj	C-c C-c
20:43	joshua__	Didn't work =(
20:44	tomoj	are you waiting for a bunch of output?
20:44	joshua__	More like trying to prevent it.
20:44	technomancy	not all operations are cancellable in the JVM
20:44	tomoj	yeah
20:44	joshua__	=( awhh
20:44	joshua__	so a loop that is spamming print can't be cancelled?
20:45	joshua__	Guess I
20:45	joshua__	Guess I will keep up my current dash to the exit button when things go south.
20:46	clizzin	yeah, i typically just restart the jvm in situations like that. =/
20:47	tomoj	I wonder if the unicode problems are slime's or swank-clojure's, or who..
20:47	pdk`	ctrl D
20:49	joshua__	I'm just really hoping that my rate limiting function worked right and that I was caught in a print loop like I think I was.... going to really suck if I just sent out a few thousand http requests =(
21:30	hiredman	I never actually done any profiling with type hints and without, seeing your runtime dominated by invokeMatchingMethod is disconcerting
21:30	hiredman	I've
22:13	bortreb	why can't I call my record types as a function on their keys like I can with normal maps?
22:13	bortreb	like ({:hi 1} :hi) == 1
22:14	bortreb	but (defrecord whatev [hi]) ((whatev. 1) :hi) gives an error
22:16	arohner	bortreb: (whatev :hi) uses the IFn interface, i.e. clojure functions
22:16	arohner	(:hi whatev) uses the IPersistentMap inteface
22:16	arohner	defrecord implements IPersistentMap, but not IFn
22:17	bortreb	I'm wondering why it doesn't implement IFn?
22:17	arohner	bortreb: because (:hi whatev) has a different performance profile
22:17	arohner	on a defrecord, (:hi whatev) has the same speed as a java field lookup, i.e. whatev.hi in java
22:17	arohner	(whatev :hi) is a lot slower
22:18	bortreb	but treating it as a function is slower I guess?
22:18	arohner	right
22:18	bortreb	hmmmmm..... but you can't just plop your record into any code that worked with clojure maps and expect it to work then?
22:19	bortreb	but that behaviour can be added, right
22:19	arohner	yeah, it's a problem. But I've started doing (:hi whaev) in all my other map code now
22:19	arohner	(:hi whatev) works on normal maps, and (get whatev :hi) works on both kinds as well
22:20	bortreb	can you define the record to implement IFn and give it a method that looks up on clojure keywords?
22:20	arohner	yes
22:20	bortreb	I just started learning about defrecord, how would you implement IFn?
22:23	tomoj	you need to implement the invoke functions of the appropriate arities
22:25	tomoj	bortreb: https://gist.github.com/0e196e1b27ec25256d2e
22:26	bortreb	yay I got it
22:27	bortreb	(defrecord whatev [hi] clojure.lang.IFn (invoke [this k] (get this k)))
22:27	bortreb	that seems to work
22:27	bortreb	but! am I missing something crucial here that makes this actually incorrect?
22:27	tomoj	you should probably also implement the 2 arity invoke
22:28	bortreb	why's that?
22:28	tomoj	(invoke [this key not-found] (get this key not-found))
22:28	tomoj	,({:foo 3} :bar 10)
22:28	clojurebot	10
22:28	bortreb	ho!
22:28	bortreb	thanks tomoj!
22:29	bortreb	(defrecord whatev [hi] clojure.lang.IFn (invoke [this k] (get this k)) (invoke [this k not-found] (get this k not-found)))
22:30	bortreb	so then, is that totally right, or am I still missing something?
22:33	tomoj	dunno
22:33	tomoj	compare the interfaces that maps implement to the ones your records implement
22:34	tomoj	if you have everything covered you should be good, I think
22:34	bortreb	indeed. thanks
22:35	tomoj	,(require 'clojure.set)
22:35	clojurebot	nil
22:36	tomoj	err.. nevermind. can't defrecord
22:36	tomoj	(clojure.set/difference (supers (class {})) (supers Foo)) -> #{clojure.lang.APersistentMap clojure.lang.AFn clojure.lang.IEditableCollection clojure.lang.MapEquivalence}
22:36	tomoj	so you can't call transient on it
22:37	tomoj	a transient record would be a strange thing