#clojure – 2010-11-26

2010-11-26

02:19	Lajla	Chousuke, ajattelet että olen kanavahullu, kylläkö? =(
03:10	LauJensen	Morning all
03:15	mduerksen	Morning. Good to see I'm not the only one in a europian timezone :)
03:31	sthuebner	mduerksen: no, you're not ;-)
04:21	mduerksen	sthuebner: german, right?
04:23	LauJensen	mduerksen: thats Herr Huebner to you :)
04:26	AWizzArd	There are several germans here, mduerksen
04:26	AWizzArd	Some of them btw in #Clojure.de too (:
04:29	bartj	is there any advantage to returning multiple values from functions
04:29	mduerksen	Oh wow, I didn't realize there was another channel for germany! :)
04:30	bartj	also, can someone please confirm that Clojure does not support returning multiple values from functions
04:34	mduerksen	bartj: what do you mean exactly by multiple values? A function can return a tuple of values, of course
04:35	bartj	mduerksen, I mean in Perl, Python you can do something like a,b = func(c)
04:35	bartj	mduerksen, of course, you can return a tuple of values
04:36	bartj	I was just curious to know why some languages support it specifically
04:36	bartj	also, if it was not possible for languages which treat functions as first class objects
04:38	timrod	bartj, if you do a,b = func(c) in python, func returns a tuple which is "destructured" into a and b
04:38	mduerksen	bartj: well, similar to your perl example, you could write something like this: (let [a b] (func c))
04:38	_ato	need an outer vector for the let: (let [[a b] (func c)] ...)
04:38	_ato	but yeah, that's virtually exactly the same as what python is doing
04:38	mduerksen	_ato: thanks
04:40	bartj	hmm, so you have to explicitly destructure it in Clojure, right ?
04:40	_ato	huh? not more than you have to do with Python
04:40	timrod	yes, just like you have to in python (and afaik in perl, but I'm not sure)
04:43	_mst	are you thinking multiple return values ala common lisp?
04:43	_ato	perhaps perl is weirder, due to the contexts stuff, but the principle is the same isn't it, you're just returning an array and then destructuring it?
04:45	bartj	_mst, I am afraid, I don't know CL
04:45	bartj	ok thanks, guys
04:45	_mst	common lisp's slightly different in how it handles multiple return values, in that if you're not interested in anything but the first one you can just pretend the others don't exist
04:46	_ato	how do you get at the other values?
04:46	_mst	for instance (setq foo (gethash :somekey my-hash)) would just bind the value taken from the hash to that var
04:46	_mst	if you want the other values things start to look an awful lot like destructuring:)
04:47	_mst	except usually you wouldn't bother, because you'd have to type multiple-value-bind and by the time you've finished typing that out you've generally lost interest...
04:47	_ato	ah, so it's a special purpose "let" for multiple return values?
04:47	_mst	yup
04:47	_ato	ick
04:55	sthuebner	mduerksen: yepp, german ;-)
04:58	Derander	I want to learn ocaml
04:59	Derander	sorry, random.
05:07	samx	If a specify a keyword in a namespace, like: (ns my.long.namespace) (def a { ::foo 10 }).. And then try to use it from another namespace with using an :as, such as: (ns my-namespace (:require [my.long.namespace :as mln])) (:mln/foo mln/a).. That does not seem to work, so that I'll have to do (:my.long.namespace/foo mln/a).. Can I get the one using a namespace alias to work somehow?
05:10	_ato	samx: try ::mln/foo
05:10	samx	thx
05:11	_ato	:: means resolve in current namespace (which includes resolving aliases)
06:12	sandGorgon	hi guys.. i was looking for solutions on how to recur on exception and I found this http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1879885/clojure-how-to-to-recur-upon-exception - I dont get why you need the macro. You can make do with the function only right ?
06:22	Tordmor	sandGorgon: The macro is there to wrap the passed form(s) into a function call. You'd have to do that yourself without it. So you can do without the macro only in so far as you could do without any macro.
06:25	sandGorgon	Tordmor, by passed form - do you mean the "body" that needs to be executed ? I'm still a little unclear on what the macro is wrapping and how
06:25	Tordmor	yes
06:26	sandGorgon	so if the body was, in fact, a function - then you dont need a macro. right ?
06:29	Tordmor	yes
06:29	sandGorgon	thanks
07:45	jegb	I use leiningen, emacs, and slime for compojure development. I use 'lein swank' from the console, and connect from emacs. This works fine. However, when I get an exception, the stack trace goes in the console. I would obviously like to get it in a slime debug buffer (sldb), so that I can inspect the frames, etc. How do I do this?
07:46	bartj	I need to show the complete stack-trace of tail-recursive calls to my colleague
07:46	bartj	this example from http://stackoverflow.com/questions/33923/what-is-tail-recursion is very appropriate
07:46	bartj	but, it is in python; can I do the same in Clojure
07:47	bartj	I mean show that the intermediate variables are not all stored on the stack!
07:52	bartj	oh well, I found the scheme explaination on the same page - http://stackoverflow.com/questions/33923/what-is-tail-recursion/33931#33931 much better
07:53	bartj	thanks
08:43	sandGorgon	a functional programming question - two functions need to be called one after the other (second doesnt use the return value of first, insofar as that is simply a status that the first function has successfully executed). Would you use "do" ?
08:44	stuartsierra	yes
08:44	stuartsierra	But remember that most forms like fn, defn, and let all have an "implicit do"
08:45	opqdonut	that's not functional programming ;)
08:45	stuartsierra	true
08:46	mduerksen	nonetheless required from time to time :)
08:49	mduerksen	sandGorgon: you should always be aware of which form have an "implicit do" and which don't. I already fell into that trap with "if"
08:51	sandGorgon	mduerksen, trap with an "implicit do" ? you mean you assumed "if" had one ?
08:53	mduerksen	sandGorgon: yes, i had used an "if" without using the else form, then added some code afterwards that i wanted to be evaluated as well. that's where i discovered the "when" macro ;)
08:53	sandGorgon	ah... thanks guys
08:53	mduerksen	you should use "when" if you don't need the else form
08:54	sandGorgon	yup.. figured that one out
09:36	Guest18523	clojure? long-polling? comet?
10:13	serp__	how do I remove an element from a set?
10:14	AWizzArd	serp__: disj
10:14	AWizzArd	,(disj #{10 20 30} 30)
10:14	clojurebot	#{10 20}
10:14	serp__	tyvm
10:21	pppaul	can i use curl in clojure?
10:22	stuartsierra	libcurl the library or curl the command-line program?
10:27	pppaul	libcurl
10:27	pppaul	or the commandline too
10:27	pppaul	tool
10:28	pppaul	i guess libcurl would be preferred
10:29	cemerick	stuartsierra: morning :-)
10:30	cemerick	We're good to go on hudson; I'm about to start my writeup of the whole process and the outstanding policy / process issues.
10:30	cemerick	Do you have any open questions/issues on the clojure + classic contrib builds?
10:32	stuartsierra	morning
10:32	stuartsierra	I just pushed updates to "classic contrib" that builds from the base POMs.
10:33	stuartsierra	What about providing for "alternate path to clojure.jar" in the contrib base pom?
10:34	cemerick	right, right
10:35	cemerick	stuartsierra: You'll want to use >= 0.0.20 of the pom.oss-deploy POM, and take a look at the hudson configuration in the build.poms job. The post-maven build step + disabling the maven release plugin's auto-push prior to the nexus deploy is a must-have IMO.
10:38	stuartsierra	I used pom.contrib as the parent of clojure-contrib/modules/parent
10:39	serp__	I have a function (f [x y]) I want to do (f (f (f (f a p) q) r) s). is there a "better" way to do this than with reduce?
10:40	magnet_	serp__, of teeworlds? :)
10:40	stuartsierra	serp__: reduce is the better way
10:40	serp__	magnet_: maaaybe :S
10:40	magnet_	serp__, small world
10:40	magnet_	:)
10:40	serp__	:P
10:42	stuartsierra	cemerick: Just pushed contrib/modules/parent/pom.xml with parent pom.contrib:0.0.19
10:43	cemerick	right, sorry, 0.0.20 is the current snapshot
10:45	stuartsierra	updating config in hudson now to match build.poms
10:47	pppaul	hey, can someone tell me if libcurl is in clojure?
10:47	abedra	stuartsierra: you know we decided yesterday that anyone who breaks the build has to sort out and eat the butter popcorn jelly beans at the office
10:48	serp__	stuartsierra: all right thanks
10:48	stuartsierra	abedra: I don't break builds, I break heads.
10:49	abedra	stuartsierra: me email says that you have to eat the butter popcorn AND the black licorice ones
10:49	kryft	Oo, black licorice
10:49	abedra	s/me/my
10:49	abedra	:)
10:51	cemerick	stuartsierra: does this look right? https://gist.github.com/c9a316b66f78e4a9cbef
10:51	stuartsierra	pppaul: libcurl is written in C, you can call it from Clojure if you have JNI or JNA bindings to it
10:51	stuartsierra	cemerick: there's more to it than that
10:51	stuartsierra	hang on
10:52	stuartsierra	cemerick: https://github.com/clojure/clojure-contrib/blob/60e7162a5a29615cae3e6d494a3653c34b6ddb66/modules/parent/pom.xml#L60
10:53	cemerick	stuartsierra: what's the why the default profile dep instead of just having the clojure dep with a parameterized version in the top-level deps?
10:55	stuartsierra	cemerick: as I recall, that was how I tried to do it the first time. It didn't work.
10:55	stuartsierra	I think if you want to override the dep in a profile, that dep has to be part of a profile to begin with.
10:59	stuartsierra	cemerick: Any idea what this means? http://build.clojure.org/job/clojure-contrib/275/console
10:59	stuartsierra	It says "You can't push to git://github.com/richhickey/clojure-contrib.git" but that isn't configured anywhere as the repo.
11:00	stuartsierra	oh, wait, it is set wrong...
11:01	cemerick	stuartsierra: first, that should be a POST build step, not pre
11:02	cemerick	stuartsierra: it's trying to push @ richhickey/contrib.git because that's origin in the hudson job's workspace.
11:03	cemerick	I strongly suggest checking off "Wipe out workspace" in the Advanced section of the job's SCM config area.
11:04	stuartsierra	cemerick: ok, trying again
11:06	cemerick	stuartsierra: We have a general hudson configuration problem. Getting everything we want on every job is going to be a PITA, nevermind sane change mgmt over time.
11:07	cemerick	I don't have any solutions on that topic at the moment. I was hoping for a baseline-hudson-job-config plugin or somesuch, but haven't found one yet.
11:08	stuartsierra	Yeah, that's annoying.
11:09	stuartsierra	For now we'll just have to get one right and make sure to copy that config everywhere.
11:10	stuartsierra	Making sure old projects are kept up-to-date will be the hard part.
11:12	cemerick	stuartsierra: yeah; we've only 2 jobs that are OSS-capable so far, and it's already irritating.
11:12	stuartsierra	ok, updated clojure-contrib Hudson config, failed for a different reason
11:13	stuartsierra	http://build.clojure.org/job/clojure-contrib/277/console
11:13	cemerick	I saw.
11:14	cemerick	stuartsierra: I'm not clear on what actually failed.
11:15	stuartsierra	cemerick: "Authentication failed: The host was not known and was not accepted by the configuration: build.clojure.org"
11:15	stuartsierra	but what does that mean ?
11:15	cemerick	right, that's what I mean, I don't understand that.
11:15	cemerick	stuartsierra: is this the first time you've tried deploying a snapshot to OSS for contrib?
11:16	stuartsierra	ah
11:16	stuartsierra	wait
11:16	stuartsierra	the top-level contrib POM has a <repository>
11:17	cemerick	Shouldn't all of the deployments failed if that's the problem?
11:17	stuartsierra	cemerick: no, because they inherit from modules/parent, not the top-level pom
11:17	cemerick	ah
11:18	cemerick	stuartsierra: FYI, IIUC, the groupId must be org.clojure. That's what our creds have privs to release (perhaps that doesn't apply to snapshots).
11:19	stuartsierra	oh piffle
11:19	stuartsierra	That probably means changing the artifactId of every module.
11:20	cemerick	stuartsierra: Maybe I'm wrong; but if so, then we'd be able to deploy releases of other projects' artifacts...
11:20	stuartsierra	right… unless it's a prefix match
11:20	stuartsierra	doubtless that's too much to hope for
11:21	cemerick	We need to set up a dummy project for testing deployments and such. I've been using build.poms for that, but that's got to end.
11:21	stuartsierra	Good point.
11:21	cemerick	We should set up a project and hudson job just for stuff like experimenting with groupId, etc.
11:22	stuartsierra	With just enough code to test things like plugins and AOT-compilation.
11:24	serp__	how do I change a root binding? I want to set the root binding of out to the out in the current thread
11:25	stuartsierra	(doc alter-var-root)
11:25	clojurebot	DENIED
11:25	cemerick	stuartsierra: no parent defined in the top level POM
11:25	stuartsierra	serp__: well, alter-var-root is what you want
11:25	cemerick	Dude, it's not your day. :-P
11:25	stuartsierra	yeah
11:25	stuartsierra	ok
11:26	cemerick	This is sorta water under the bridge at this point, but: why the separate parent pom, and not just point modules back at the top-level?
11:27	stuartsierra	No big reason, seemed easier at the time.
11:27	stuartsierra	Ok, take #279
11:34	cemerick	shazam
11:34	stuartsierra	Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, I'll be here all week.
11:35	stuartsierra	N.B.: This is building on Clojure 1.2.0. Can't build on 1.3.0-master-SNAPSHOT because it's not deployed to OSS.
11:36	cemerick	right.
11:36	cemerick	One thing at a time :-)
11:36	cemerick	stuartsierra: OK, contrib pom 0.2.0-SNAPSHOT has the clojure.jar system dep. It looks good here with my local nrepl checkout. See how it fares on your end.
11:36	cemerick	I'm going to be logging off of irc in ~20 min. Ping me on email if there's an issue. Look for that process writeup later today.
11:39	stuartsierra	Will do.
11:39	stuartsierra	Heading out to lunch in a few minutes myself.
11:44	stuartsierra	cemerick: process writeup can go on the dev.clojure.org wiki
11:46	cemerick	stuartsierra: Of course.
11:53	stuartsierra	cemerick: Can't build clojure-contrib with "mvn -Dclojure.jar ..."
11:53	stuartsierra	"ClassNotFoundException: clojure.lang.Compile"
11:53	cemerick	hrm
11:54	serp__	why is (alter-var-root out (constantly out)) wrong?
11:54	stuartsierra	cemerick: Why <dependencyManagement> in the alternate profile?
11:55	stuartsierra	Instead of just <dependencies>
11:55	stuartsierra	?
11:55	stuartsierra	serp__: You need the Var #'out
11:55	serp__	aha..
11:56	serp__	ty
11:58	stuartsierra	cemerick: This seems to work in the pom.contrib: https://gist.github.com/716954
12:01	cemerick	stuartsierra: yeah, that's better -- I'm actually more confused as to why it's working as-is for me locally.
12:02	stuartsierra	yeah, dunno
12:03	stuartsierra	Try running "mvn -Dclojure.jar=… clojure:repl" and see what version string it prinst out.
12:04	cemerick	as expected, 1.1 when I use that jar…
12:05	cemerick	anyway
12:05	cemerick	stuartsierra: dep mgmt eliminated on HEAD
12:06	stuartsierra	Got it, works for me.
12:09	replaca	stuartsierra: did you see I made a couple of hacks to c.c.java-utils?
12:10	stuartsierra	replaca: no, sorry
12:11	replaca	stuartsierra: It wasn't loading right after file and as-str had been removed cause other stuff used them
12:11	stuartsierra	I'm just maintaining the build.
12:11	stuartsierra	I do not want to maintain everything else.
12:11	replaca	stuartsierra: it seems obviously like the right thing to me, so I just went ahead and did it
12:11	stuartsierra	I actually want everything else to die as quickly as possible.
12:12	replaca	stuartsierra: I second that. It's a bear now
12:12	stuartsierra	ok, I really am going to lunch
12:12	replaca	enjoy!
12:26	anonymouse89	I'm having some trouble with clojure.xml/parse. The file I'm parsing does not have a root binding so xml/parse throws an exception. How do I get around this? Is there a way to concat InputStream's to add <root> and </root>?
14:31	jweiss_	what exactly are variables like print-meta (from clojure.core ns) that i can do set! on them. but it doesn't work for anything that i create using def or defvar.
14:31	jweiss_	,(set! (defvar x 1) 2)
14:31	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: defvar in this context
14:32	jweiss_	,(set! (clojure.contrib.def/defvar x 1) 2)
14:32	clojurebot	DENIED
14:32	jweiss_	bah
14:37	stuartsierra	Those Vars are given thread-local bindings in the REPL
14:39	jweiss_	aha, that explains a lot
15:11	stuartsierra	BOOM: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ-681
15:56	joshua__	How do I match just the first <div class="some_class"> with an enlive selector?
15:58	raek	(-> ... (select [:.some_class]) first) ?
16:00	raek	it might be possible to do that with just a selector, but I haven't looked very deepl into that yet
16:05	hugod	cemerick: you could always configure hudson jobs with pallet :)
16:06	patrkris	Hi folks. I've been out of the Clojure loop for a while. Tell me, has cake won over leiningen?
16:06	maacl	Is there a safe variant of read-string that will only read data (i.e. no function/macro calls)?
16:06	Raynes	patrkris: It hasn't 'won'. Leiningen is still very popular.
16:07	Raynes	patrkris: I don't think they're really competing for blood though.
16:07	Raynes	Cake has grown quite a bit though, so I definitely suggest checking it out. I use it myself.
16:07	patrkris	Raynes: I know. :) But I don't know what to choose. Maybe it doesn't matter much.
16:08	Raynes	It's really down to which feature set you like more. Just check out the READMEs and you should be able to make an informed decision.
16:09	stuartsierra	And then switch to Maven when you need it.
16:09	patrkris	Raynes: Thanks. You wouldn't happen to know about a 'repository' of cake task libraries?
16:09	joshua__	I figured your way would work raek, but it felt wrong for there not to be built in support for it. Turns out there was. This works as I wanted: (def project-selector [[:.project html/first-child]])
16:09	joshua__	html being enlive-htim :as html
16:12	raek	ah, so it matches every element with the project class that is the first of its kind which among other project class sibling elements?
16:12	raek	my code snipped would select the first element with the project class that occurs in the document
16:37	maacl	Is there a safe variant of read-string that will only read data structures?
16:40	joshua__	Is there a difference?
16:41	raek	joshua__: maacl's question or mine?
16:42	raek	maacl: you can disable the #= reader macro by rebinding read-eval
16:42	raek	maacl: (defn safe-read-string [s] (binding [read-eval false] (read-string s)))
16:42	joshua__	yours
16:42	raek	ok
16:43	maacl	ah - thanks raek
16:43	raek	if element E1 and E2 has E3 as their parent element, then first-child will only select E1 in that case
16:44	raek	but if E1 and E2 are not siblings, both will be selected, I tihnk
16:45	joshua__	<project 1><project 2></project 2><project 3></project 3></project 1> would have my code select project 2?
16:47	raek	I think so, but I haven't tested it
16:47	raek	should be fairly easy to test... one moment please...
16:47	joshua__	I'll test it right now and get back to you. Going to test it using w3schools.
16:49	LOPP	#= ?
16:49	joshua__	Looks like it is selecting project 1.
16:50	serp__	I want to append sequences to eachother, but I can't find the function append.. am I doing this wrong?
16:51	joshua__	Well, it looks like it is selecting all three of them with how css selectors work.
16:51	joshua__	since the first one contains the other two.
16:52	LOPP	what's #=
16:54	joshua__	Should be able to select sub-projects with something like [[:.project first-child :.project first-child]] if it maps back to css selectors, but I haven't tested it. If you ended up seeing something different let me know.
16:55	joshua__	Everything is working for me now though.
16:57	joshua__	`(find-doc "#=")
16:59	joshua__	Came up with something about how it is the EvalReader.
17:00	dmart_	#=(Integer. 12)
17:00	dmart_	&(Integer. 12)
17:00	sexpbot	⟹ 12
17:00	dmart_	it evals the stuff after the #=
17:00	dmart_	s/stuff/form/ I guess?
17:02	LOPP	&(doc read-string)
17:02	sexpbot	⟹ "([s]); Reads one object from the string s"
17:02	stuartsierra	#= does read-time evaluation
17:03	LOPP	really?
17:03	LOPP	how is that useful?
17:03	stuartsierra	in rare cases for data serialization
17:03	dmart_	I've found it useful for quick serialization / reading back
17:05	dmart_	&(str "#=(java.util.Date. \"" (.toString (java.util.Date.)) "\")")
17:05	sexpbot	⟹ "#=(java.util.Date. \"Fri Nov 26 14:05:29 PST 2010\")"
17:05	LOPP	ok, what now?
17:06	dmart_	if you passed that string to read-string in with read-eval true, you'd get a new Date object equal to the one printed out
17:07	LOPP	so read-string evals the string?
17:08	dmart_	well, type it in the repl and see what happens
17:08	dmart_	read-string is sort of analogous to eval in javascript I guess?
17:09	dmart_	if that helps
17:10	patrkris	Raynes: is it possible to have the non-dev dependencies in the class path when invoking a custom task?
17:13	Raynes	patrkris: re cake task libraries: There is a list of plugins in the wiki on the cake github page. re non-dev dependencies: that is what bake is for, if I understand your question properly.
17:13	patrkris	Raynes: Thanks. I'll take a look at bake.
17:19	patrkris	Raynes: I looked through the wiki but didn't find an explanation of bake. Is it available anywhere?
17:21	patrkris	Raynes: Ah... it's just using bake inside your task? I'll give it a try.
18:54	jjido_	can you generate a not-so-random sequence of numbers? i.e. a sequence that looks random but is partially sorted.
19:02	jjido_	,(letfn [(shuffle [s] (flatten (swap (split s (int (rand (count s)))))))] (shuffle [1 2 3 4 5 6]))
19:02	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: swap in this context
19:03	jjido_	,(letfn [(shuffle [s] (flatten (reverse (split s (int (rand (count s)))))))] (shuffle [1 2 3 4 5 6]))
19:03	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: split in this context
19:03	jjido_	,(letfn [(shuffle [s] (flatten (reverse (split-at s (int (rand (count s)))))))] (shuffle [1 2 3 4 5 6]))
19:03	clojurebot	java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: java.lang.Integer
19:03	jjido_	,(letfn [(shuffle [s] (flatten (reverse (split-at (int (rand (count s))) s))))] (shuffle [1 2 3 4 5 6]))
19:03	clojurebot	(3 4 5 6 1 2)
19:03	jjido_	,(letfn [(shuffle [s] (flatten (reverse (split-at (int (rand (count s))) s))))] (shuffle [1 2 3 4 5 6]))
19:03	clojurebot	(2 3 4 5 6 1)
19:04	jjido_	,(letfn [(shuffle [s] (flatten (reverse (split-at (int (rand (count s))) s))))] (shuffle (range 10)))
19:04	clojurebot	(5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4)
19:05	jjido_	how do I repeat that n times on the result?
19:07	jjido_	,(letfn [(shuffle [s _] (flatten (reverse (split-at (int (rand (count s))) s))))] (reduce (partial shuffle (range 10)) (range 3))
19:07	clojurebot	EOF while reading
19:07	jjido_	,(letfn [(shuffle [s _] (flatten (reverse (split-at (int (rand (count s))) s))))] (reduce (partial shuffle (range 10)) (range 3)))
19:07	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args (3) passed to: sandbox$eval724$shuffle
19:08	jjido_	,(doc reduce)
19:08	clojurebot	"([f coll] [f val coll]); f should be a function of 2 arguments. If val is not supplied, returns the result of applying f to the first 2 items in coll, then applying f to that result and the 3rd item...
19:08	raek	jjido_: in what way should it be random and sorted?
19:08	jjido_	raek: I am not very particular...
19:10	jjido_	,(letfn [(shuffle [s _] (flatten (reverse (split-at (int (rand (count s))) s))))] (reduce (partial shuffle) (range 10) (range 3)))
19:10	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args (1) passed to: core$partial
19:10	jjido_	,(letfn [(shuffle [s _] (flatten (reverse (split-at (int (rand (count s))) s))))] (reduce shuffle (range 10) (range 3)))
19:10	clojurebot	(3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2)
19:11	jjido_	,(letfn [(shuffle [s _] (flatten (reverse (split-at (int (rand (count s))) s))))] (reduce shuffle (range 10) (range 3)))
19:11	clojurebot	(3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2)
19:12	raek	jjido_: also, there is a rand-int function
19:12	jjido_	raek: thanks
19:13	Raynes	&(sort (repeatedly 30 #(rand-int 10000000)))
19:13	sexpbot	⟹ (38797 128400 1347904 1415320 1583404 1589076 1676210 1777652 2381785 2512796 2552871 3177841 4076783 4195345 4439859 4894263 5045857 5247199 5491817 5519674 5768961 5826224 5864209 6255536 8033027 8782210 8935694 9001985 9481409 9584555)
19:13	jjido_	Raynes: nope that is much too sorted
19:13	Raynes	I have no clue what you're asking for anyway. ;p
19:14	raek	,(let [[l r] ((juxt take drop) 3 (range 10))] (concat r l))
19:14	clojurebot	(3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2)
19:15	jjido_	raek: that is cleaner
19:15	raek	,(let [[l r] (split-at 3 (range 10))] (concat r l))
19:15	clojurebot	(3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2)
19:15	raek	even better.
19:16	raek	(although, in the other example I got to use juxt)
19:16	jjido_	and for the repeat?
19:16	jjido_	I want to shuffle again
19:18	slyrus_	so... any good blog posts on migrating one's code to clojure 1.3?
19:18	raek	(letfn [(random-swap [coll] (let [[l r] (split-at (random-int (count coll) coll)] (concat r l)))] (nth (iterate random-swap (range 20)) 5))
19:18	raek	,(letfn [(random-swap [coll] (let [[l r] (split-at (random-int (count coll) coll)] (concat r l)))] (nth (iterate random-swap (range 20)) 5))
19:18	clojurebot	Unmatched delimiter: ]
19:19	raek	,(letfn [(random-swap [coll] (let [[l r] (split-at (random-int (count coll) coll))] (concat r l)))] (nth (iterate random-swap (range 20)) 5))
19:19	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: random-int in this context
19:19	raek	,(letfn [(random-swap [coll] (let [[l r] (split-at (rand-int (count coll) coll))] (concat r l)))] (nth (iterate random-swap (range 20)) 5))
19:19	clojurebot	java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args (2) passed to: core$rand-int
19:19	raek	,(letfn [(random-swap [coll] (let [[l r] (split-at (rand-int (count coll)) coll)] (concat r l)))] (nth (iterate random-swap (range 20)) 5))
19:19	clojurebot	(4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 ...)
19:21	raek	jjido_: ^^
19:21	jjido_	raek: great!
19:24	jjido_	huh, I need to mix in something else. The swaps tend to cancel each other quickly
19:24	raek	how curious... the swap parts operation is only "rolling" the sequence
19:25	raek	and the composition of two of those could be seen as one "swap"
19:25	jjido_	when playing cards I also interleave to shuffle
19:25	raek	if you think of the sequence as a ring, then the sorted order will never be broken (except of the 20 -> 0 discontinouity...)
19:26	jjido_	yes
19:26	raek	what you go here would be something that is know as a "Norwegian shuffle" in Sweden.
19:27	jjido_	can't be good ;) ;)
19:27	raek	most probably, it is known as a "Swedish shuffle" in Norway too :-)
19:28	raek	anyway, if you modify the swap code to reverse on of the halves, it would randomize it a bit more
19:28	jjido_	yes I just tried that
19:28	raek	(concat r l) -> (concat r (reverse l))
19:36	jjido_	Oh well... That was to test a sorting algorithm. My optimisation does not help much more with partially sorted data as compared to random. Kind of bad.
19:45	slyrus_	technomancy: around?
19:54	raek	does someone recall how to make swank-clojure listen for only one connection and then stop listening?
19:55	Raynes	raek: Doesn't not passing dont-close do that? However, that would be the default.
19:57	raek	no, but it used to, I think...
19:57	raek	now I can connect to the same port multiple times
19:57	raek	(and to my friend's swank server too)
19:58	raek	since I'm not alone on my server, I thought it might be time to tighten up the security...
19:59	raek	hrm... is there any stop-repl fn in swank-clojure?
20:08	raek	the source of the current version of swank-clojure does not contain "dont-close" at all... :/
20:13	slyrus_	,(case nil nil 3)
20:13	clojurebot	java.lang.NullPointerException
20:14	slyrus_	huh?
20:21	raek	,(case nil 1 2)
20:21	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching clause:
20:21	raek	weird
20:27	slyrus_	seems bogus to me
20:33	joshua__	I have a question.
20:34	joshua__	Is this comic (http://xkcd.com/627/) appropriate for even questions asked to the people of this channel?
21:08	mister_roboto	~seen cermick
21:08	clojurebot	Huh?
21:15	Raynes	$seen cemerick
21:15	sexpbot	cemerick was last seen quitting 4 days and 2 hours ago.
21:20	KirinDave	Damn, why hasn't anyone told me about lamina?
21:20	KirinDave	This is pretty cool.
21:46	jimdagem	hi
21:49	replaca	KirinDave: I think's Zach has been discussing it on Jira
21:49	KirinDave	It's pretty neat.
21:49	KirinDave	And gloss is something I was writing awhile ago but never finished, for plt-scheme.
21:49	KirinDave	Very useful.
21:49	replaca	the boy's on a roll :)
21:53	KirinDave	Thank you so much, clojurebot
21:53	replaca	hiredman: you here?
21:54	jimdagem	is clojurebot written in clojure?
21:54	replaca	It seems to have started doing that when someone (or at least me) checks something into contrib
21:54	replaca	jimdagem: yup
21:54	replaca	jimdagem: https://github.com/hiredman/clojurebot
21:57	Raynes	No way. It's written in Haskell, of course.
21:58	jimdagem	lol
21:58	Raynes	$botsnack
21:58	sexpbot	Raynes: Thanks! Om nom nom!!
21:59	jimdagem	can anyone provide or direct me to a good compare-and-contrast of Haskell and Clojure?
22:19	Raynes	wooby: This keyboard is fantastic. <3
22:20	danlarkin	which keyboard?
22:21	Raynes	Das ultimate.
22:21	Raynes	He gave me one at the conj.
22:21	Raynes	I switched to it last night. Used to use the same keyboard you use, iirc. MS ergo 4000?
22:22	danlarkin	moving past the weirdness of you knowing which keyboard I use, yes
22:23	Raynes	The reason I wanted to try a Das is because of your discussion with technomancy and others a couple of months ago. Just happened to remember.
22:24	danlarkin	I enjoy the split
22:24	Raynes	Yeah, the split was always nice.
22:33	_ato	the Das is great, I use it as well
22:36	_ato	I can't use ergonomics, I never learned to type in the "proper" way. I type fast and without looking, just I inevitably end up trying to reach across the split
22:36	Raynes	_ato: I always did that with my other keyboard!
22:37	Raynes	I'm a two-three finger typer. Never learned to type properly.
22:37	Raynes	Not counting my thumb.
22:37	leifw	if I didn't bring my laptop everywhere and move it around my house all the time, I'd still be using the kinesis I got a few years back
22:37	leifw	those things are fantastic
22:38	_ato	I'm a full five fingeer typist, but just learnt by typing a heck of a lot rather than by doing formal lessons
22:38	leifw	but you have to be a traditional typist for it to make sense
22:38	Raynes	It looks neat. Not sure I'd be able to tolerate it.
22:38	leifw	the main nice bit is that it brings all the pinky keys to the thumb
22:38	leifw	which is particularly good for emacs
22:39	Raynes	_ato: Well, so am I, if you count hitting the 'enter' key with my pinky. ;)
22:40	Raynes	And, of course, capslock which is control.
22:44	_ato	yeah, I do the capslock control thing as well. My brother actually swaps caps-lock and backspace, hits control with his palm (which doesn't usually work too well on a laptop)
22:45	_ato	so if I use his computer inevitably end up deleting everything I'm trying to work on :p
22:45	hippiehunter	what is the correct order for accessing a field in a map/record/whatever, (:field instance) or (instance :field) ? it looks to my noob eyes like both work but I'm sure there is a preferred way
22:46	hippiehunter	also das ultimate S ftw
22:47	_ato	hippiehunter: (:field instance) has the benefit of working when instance is nil
22:47	hippiehunter	does it just return nil as a result?
22:47	_ato	yep
22:48	_ato	hehe, I guess other people might say that (instance :field) has the benefit of barfing when instance is nil :p
22:56	hippiehunter	is try catch the best way to interact with java exceptions from clojure?
23:03	_ato	hippiehunter: yes
23:15	hippiehunter	is there a better way to debug in clojure (aside from just not making bugs)? I'm using netbeans and enclojure and the breakpoint fidelity is very low. I seem to be able to step on/break on about 1/4 of the lines
23:25	leifw	dunno, I usually just use a repl and this macro:
23:25	leifw	(defmacro dbg
23:25	leifw	[x]
23:25	leifw	`(let [x# ~x]
23:25	leifw	(binding [out err] (println '~x "=" x#))
23:25	leifw	x#))
23:26	leifw
23:26	leifw	sorry about the big paste
23:26	leifw	forgot whose blog I got that from but it's nice
23:32	_ato	hippiehunter: see also: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2352020/debugging-in-clojure
23:46	hippiehunter	as far as I can tell, dotrace doesnt interact well with jetty could just be that I'm using it wrong though
23:47	hippiehunter	never mind I figured it out
23:56	ossareh	anyone done much with hiccup? I've a loop which returns two nodes which are at the same level in the DOM as eachother and I'm struggling to understand how this should be returned.
23:56	ossareh	(for [data data-list]
23:57	ossareh	(do [:tr [:td (:msg data)]] [:tr [:td (:othermsg data)]]))
23:57	ossareh	naturally that only returns the last <tr/>
23:57	ossareh	and I'm stumped on how to get both back.
23:58	_mst	maybe try replacing "do" with "list"?
23:58	_mst	I think lists get automatically flattened (although it's been a little while since I used hiccup)
23:59	ossareh	nailed it _mst !
23:59	ossareh	thanks
23:59	ossareh	clojurebot: give _mst props