#clojure – 2010-11-16

2010-11-16

00:05	tonyl	is the :once value in the metadata map used only for delaying the results?
00:05	tonyl	or what is it used for
00:09	KirinDave	How does one define a method with a void return type using gen-interface?
00:10	tonyl	I think only 1.3 lets you specify a return type
00:10	KirinDave	For gen-interface?
00:10	KirinDave	That's definitely not true.
00:10	tonyl	In general
00:10	tonyl	I am not sure about gen-interface
00:12	danlarkin	1.2 (at least, and probably earlier versions) of gen-class let you have a void return value
00:12	danlarkin	I have no experience with gen-interface though, sorry :(
00:13	KirinDave	danlarkin: How do you express it?
00:13	KirinDave	gen-class's format is very similar to gen-interface
00:13	danlarkin	KirinDave: https://github.com/danlarkin/subrosa/blob/master/src/subrosa/observable.clj#L9
00:14	danlarkin	KirinDave: that is, a vector of 3-vectors: method name, vector of arg types and return type
00:15	KirinDave	haha, it's just "void"
00:15	tomoj	wonder why not aleph?
00:15	KirinDave	THAT IS TOO SIMPLE FOR ME TO HAVE GUESSED ;)
00:15	danlarkin	KirinDave: it's in the documentation :)
00:16	KirinDave	danlarkin: Ahh, it is; albeit obliquely
00:16	KirinDave	"In all subsequent sections taking types, the primitive types can be
00:16	KirinDave	referred to by their Java names (int, float etc)"
00:16	KirinDave	danlarkin: Thank you
00:16	danlarkin	KirinDave: it did take me a few minutes of reading to find it
00:17	danlarkin	tomoj: a few reasons, but /mostly/ because when I started this code there was no aleph
00:17	tomoj	ah
00:17	quizme	i got something like GC memory overhead limit exceeded. how do you increase the memory limit?
00:19	tomoj	do you think you really should need to? maybe you are holding the head somewhere?
00:19	tomoj	oh, guess that means you have excessive churn?
00:20	danlarkin	the default JVM heap size isn't very large, you almost always need to increase it for serious work
00:20	tomoj	that happened to me when I was creating many many boxed integers and then adding them up and outputting and then throwing away
00:20	danlarkin	quizme: java -Xmx2048m ...
00:21	quizme	danlarkin thanks. i'm doing "lein repl"
00:21	danlarkin	quizme: lein respects JAVA_OPTS
00:21	quizme	ok cool
00:21	quizme	thnx
00:22	KirinDave	And :java_opts in the project.clj file.
00:22	quizme	awesome dudes thnx
00:22	tonyl	what is the difference between java -Xmx... and java -Xms....
00:22	danlarkin	tonyl: max and min heap size, respectively
00:23	tonyl	thanks danlarkin
00:24	quizme	export JAVA_OPTS=-Xmx768m <--- will lein pick that up from env ?
00:24	danlarkin	quizme: yes
00:24	quizme	danlarkin tyu
00:25	LauJensen	Morning all
00:33	quizme	is it possible to do something like preduce on an atom ?
02:06	guppy	hello
02:46	quizme	http://pastie.org/1301932 <--- is there anything obviously wrong with how i'm updating my atom? It didn't change...
02:46	sandGorgon	I have a 3'rd party java lib that has a "main" function - I need to invoke that from clojure. How do I do that ?
02:47	hiredman	you're not using reduce correctly
02:48	quizme	hiredman hmm
02:49	quizme	hiredman: it takes 3 arguments (reduce f val coll) isn't that what i'm doing ?
03:08	Chousuke	quizme: I don't think that's a good use of an atom in the first place
03:09	Chousuke	it's not parallel at least :P
03:11	quizme	chousuke doesn't pmap parallelize the reduce processes ?
03:12	quizme	oh...
03:12	quizme	i think i get it
03:12	quizme	i see, thanks....
03:17	Chousuke	the atom's going to block most of the parallelism anyway.
03:17	Chousuke	and for pmap to be worth it, the mapped function must be quite expensive
03:19	Chousuke	and it's not usually a good idea to def lazy seqs, unless you want to keep them in memory forever :)
03:20	Chousuke	you'll probably get more performance if you use a transient.
03:20	Chousuke	(without any atoms)
03:21	Chousuke	though if your data structure is nested, then it becomes somewhat tricky.
04:36	esj	hello eujurians (and Raynes, who sleeps not)
04:53	raek	greetings from the realm of smörgåsbord and IKEA
04:57	esj	raek: :)
05:35	LauJensen	smörgås means 'butter goose' in danish :P
05:39	LauJensen	@ raek
05:39	raek	in swedish too, for some reason
05:40	raek	but it still is the word for "sandwich"
05:40	LauJensen	hehe, swedish sets new standards for silly :)
05:42	esj	LauJensen: not sure on that one - a having "butter goose" as the default for a sandwich sounds pretty awesome where I'm standing
05:43	AWizzArd	How can I go from a symbol to class? (foo 'String) ==> java.lang.String (<-- this is a class)
05:44	AWizzArd	resolve?
05:44	LauJensen	esj: Im just telling you the Rules. Our languages stem from our Germanic Roots, Denmark is closets to the roots, more clear and easier to reason about. Norwegian is a little more distorted, but still understandable, especially in writing. Swedish is terrible distorted (I think because of alchohol abuse), so that its difficult to understand. If we go even further north we have Suomi, which is just.. gone
05:44	AWizzArd	Or is there something better?
05:45	imade	LauJensen, what's your take on Estonian, it sounds very similar to Finnish
05:45	LauJensen	imade: I dont know enough about it
05:45	esj	LauJensen: ROTFL. I'll have to teach you some Zulu when we meet. The grammar and syntax are such as to make the each sentance rhyme. Now that is awesome.
05:48	LauJensen	esj: Sounds like a cool challenge, would really take hard work. To learn swedish simply takes a couple of beers
05:49	esj	I have a problem, previously discussed, where a sufficient quantity of beer allows me to understand and speak German fluently, on the basis that if I just slur in Dutch I figure I'll be fine...
05:50	xkb	lol
07:12	AWizzArd	Who has an idea to improve this?
07:12	AWizzArd	,(loop [list [10 20 30 40 50], result []] (if (< (count list) 2) result (recur (rest list) (conj result (take 2 list)))))
07:12	clojurebot	[(10 20) (20 30) (30 40) (40 50)]
07:12	Tordmor	,(doc partition)
07:12	clojurebot	"([n coll] [n step coll] [n step pad coll]); Returns a lazy sequence of lists of n items each, at offsets step apart. If step is not supplied, defaults to n, i.e. the partitions do not overlap. If a ...
07:13	Tordmor	,(let [lst [10 20 30 40 50]] (partition 2 lst 1))
07:13	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: java.lang.Integer
07:13	LauJensen	&(vec (partition 2 1 (range 10 50 10)))
07:13	sexpbot	⟹ [(10 20) (20 30) (30 40)]
07:15	LauJensen	AWizzArd: Did you catch that buddy ?
07:19	AWizzArd	Ah, partition takes another arg
07:19	AWizzArd	good, thanks
07:19	LauJensen	4 in in total, padding is nice as well
07:19	LauJensen	&(partition 2 2 [0] [1 2 3])
07:19	sexpbot	⟹ ((1 2) (3 0))
07:20	AWizzArd	nice improvements, I missed those, thx
07:21	LauJensen	np
08:33	cemerick	stuartsierra: ping
08:40	sharat87	Hello, is it ok to use a function with side effects in a call to map?
08:40	sharat87	I mean, it will be called on the sequence in order right?
08:41	noidi	map is lazy, so you'd better use doseq for side effects
08:41	sharat87	oh ok thanks
08:55	sharat87	is there a better way to turn a keyword into a string (without the :) than (.substring (str :hella) 1)
08:55	LauJensen	&(name :hello)
08:55	sexpbot	⟹ "hello"
08:55	sharat87	ah neat, thanks :)
08:55	LauJensen	&(subs (str :hello) 1)
08:55	sexpbot	⟹ "hello"
08:56	sharat87	where are these functions I don't find it in the data structures page?
08:56	LauJensen	Both are better, prefer the first
08:56	sharat87	ok
08:56	LauJensen	sharat87: try the cheat sheet
08:56	Raynes	Where did subs come from?
08:56	Raynes	&(doc subs)
08:56	sexpbot	⟹ "([s start] [s start end]); Returns the substring of s beginning at start inclusive, and ending at end (defaults to length of string), exclusive."
08:56	sharat87	yeah, there too, the keywords section only has keyword and keyword?
08:57	LauJensen	oh
08:57	chouser	Raynes: subs is one of those unexpectedly old ones
08:58	sharat87	LauJensen: heh, a Ctrl-F reveals the name function in Other/Misc :)
08:58	chouser	&(meta #'subs)
08:58	sexpbot	⟹ {:ns #<Namespace clojure.core>, :name subs, :file "clojure/core.clj", :line 3940, :arglists ([s start] [s start end]), :added "1.0", :doc "Returns the substring of s beginning at start inclusive, and ending\n at end (defaults to length of string), exclusive.", :tag java.lang.String}
08:58	chouser	&(:added (meta #'subs)
08:58	sexpbot	java.lang.Exception: EOF while reading
08:58	chouser	&(:added (meta #'subs))
08:58	sexpbot	⟹ "1.0"
08:58	Chousuke	I'm pretty sure subs was there before the first public release :P
08:58	chouser	yep
08:58	Raynes	I don't think anybody knows about it.
08:59	cemerick	subs is substituting a type hint for a fn call :-P
08:59	chouser	It's included in one of Rich's early presentations, comparing a Python example to an equivalent Clojure example
09:00	LauJensen	chouser: ah, he put it in there to win the spelling corrector test? :)
09:00	cemerick	Trying to make things look less hosty, I guess?
09:00	chouser	I think you're both right. :-)
09:00	stuartsierra	I think it even predates the (.method obj. ..) sintax
09:00	stuartsierra	*syntax
09:01	cemerick	Raynes: Dude, subs couldn't exist w/o .substring :-P
09:01	LauJensen	subs is actually the first building block of clojure, even precedes functions themselves
09:01	LauJensen	:)
09:01	cemerick	ha :-)
09:01	Raynes	cemerick: You have a thing about backends, don't you?
09:01	chouser	(.method obj) is now so clearly better, it's hard to believe people weren't sure at first
09:02	Raynes	cemerick: Just like project.clj, it's shorter and does everything that I need at the moment, so why would I ever want to use .substring? ;P
09:02	cemerick	Raynes: I'm an ass about making sure people don't forget the stature of the giants we sit upon.
09:02	chouser	Raynes: because if you know about .substring, finding .split is a natural progression
09:02	chouser	Raynes: if you only know about subs, good luck finding .split or clojure.string/split
09:02	cemerick	Raynes: The project.clj thing is totally orthogonal, far more meta, and not worth getting into. :-)
09:03	Raynes	chouser: I'm sure I would have managed.
09:03	Raynes	java.lang.String is not too far away.
09:03	Raynes	chouser: Nonetheless, shouldn't subs be in clojure.string?
09:03	chouser	I mean, I'm exaggerating, but there's a point there.
09:04	chouser	Raynes: if anywhere, yeah. But is it worth a breaking change to move it?
09:04	cemerick	chouser: I got your back, man. Exaggerate and hyperbolize away.
09:04	Raynes	chouser: Sure it is. There can't be more than 3 people using it in practice.
09:05	Raynes	clojure.string should really be called clojure.redundancy though.
09:06	stuartsierra	hey
09:08	Raynes	$seen mmarczyk
09:08	sexpbot	I have never seen mmarczyk.
09:09	Raynes	I haven't seen ol' Michal in quite a while.
09:09	LauJensen	:(
09:09	Raynes	He must be lurking. He's definitely around, since he watched clojail yesterday.
09:45	fliebel	morning
09:46	LauJensen	Morning :)
09:49	fliebel	Are there any (>= Clojure 50%) companies in Europe?
09:51	AWizzArd	fliebel: do you mean 50% or 0%?
09:51	AWizzArd	Any sounds like: (< 0% Clojure)
09:51	fliebel	AWizzArd: Well, at least anything where some serious Clojure work is happening :)
09:54	dakrone	fliebel: Forward was one of the conj sponsors, they're out of London I think
09:55	fliebel	dakrone: I'm googling for them :)
09:55	dakrone	fliebel: forward.co.uk
10:23	AWizzArd	fliebel: yes, some companies use Clojure seriously.
10:24	fliebel	AWizzArd: I'd love to know about a few more.
10:52	jkdufair	how can i use slime to send an expression to the REPL, copying and eval-ing it in the REPL itself?
10:53	jkdufair	i'm giving a presentation demo-ing clojure
10:56	bhenry	jkdufair: i feel like i've seen it in presentations but don't know how to do it myself. if you can't find it make a keyboard macro for C-k C-y C-c-z C-y
10:56	bhenry	you'd do that from the beginning of the form you want to send to the repl
10:56	jkdufair	yeah, it's not very useful outside of presentations
11:10	trybeingarun	Hey guys
11:11	tonyl	hello
11:11	trybeingarun	(read-line) is not working in emacs. Any fix available?
11:11	tonyl	sorry, not an emacs guy
11:11	trybeingarun	Fyn :)
11:12	trybeingarun	@tonyl: what editor are you using btw?
11:13	trybeingarun	not trying to start an editor war btw ;)
11:14	tonyl	i don't car about those wars
11:15	tonyl	I use vim, but run clojure with a bash script
11:15	trybeingarun	me neither. Whatever works fine for the job :)
11:15	trybeingarun	nice...
11:17	cemerick	puredanger: Got your back on the ccw keybindings. :-) FYI, Laurent will hopefully have an RC that includes the new REPL stuff this week.
11:18	puredanger	cemerick: cool, thx
11:18	trybeingarun	I am new to functional programming and clojure too. Can anybody suggest a good reading material (other than Practical clojure and Programming Clojure books) ?
11:18	puredanger	cemerick: does that mean just that you agree with me or that you're actually changing it? :)
11:18	cemerick	puredanger: what prompted you to bounce back and forth? I thought you had settled in with emacs, at least for a little while?
11:19	puredanger	cemerick: I've been doing more design work where I want to see a lot of stuff at once and I find Eclipse much easier to do that in
11:19	cemerick	puredanger: I'm all for changing it, but it's Laurent's sandbox. If he says it's a go, and it's just a matter of adding a condition to delegate off to your usual action for text editing in those contexts, then I'll make sure it's in the RC.
11:20	cemerick	If we don't have the current editing scope handy already, then it may be added to the backlog.
11:21	puredanger	cemerick: the thing that I find really disorienting about it is the difference in behavior with alt-left (left by word) and alt-shift-left (expand selection to entire string, instead of left by word expanding selection)
11:21	tonyl	trybeingarun: for me to understand clojure clojure.org helped me out. functional programming helped me just to go along and program some mini programs
11:21	tonyl	i haven't read any books just coding and reading blog posts
11:21	pdk	trybeingarun
11:21	pdk	look into on lisp/ansi common lisp
11:22	pdk	google sicp and look into haskell and ML (say SML or o'caml) as well
11:22	trybeingarun	Isn't there appreciable difference between common lisp and clojure?
11:23	AWizzArd	Is there a test to check if an object is either a Boolean or a primitive boolean?
11:23	pdk	true but the book can still be helpful for getting a feel for lisp on the whole and it spends some time covering things like what you can do with macros
11:23	trybeingarun	I mean, would not immutability make significant difference?
11:23	AWizzArd	other than (or (true? x) (false? x))
11:23	pdk	(doc boolean?_
11:23	clojurebot	EOF while reading
11:23	pdk	(doc boolean?)
11:23	clojurebot	Pardon?
11:23	pdk	hm
11:24	pdk	,(. Integer java_class)
11:24	clojurebot	java.lang.NoSuchFieldException: java_class
11:24	cemerick	puredanger: Absolutely, yes. It's fundamentally just an impl detail, as the arrangement makes perfect sense in actual code.
11:24	pdk	,(. Integer value_type)
11:24	clojurebot	java.lang.NoSuchFieldException: value_type
11:25	pdk	blast
11:25	trybeingarun	I have the following books with me. Can anybody order in increasing degree of importance/difficulty?
11:25	AWizzArd	Integer/TYPE exists
11:25	AWizzArd	Also Boolean/TYPE
11:25	cemerick	I'll have to scrounge up one of those paredit screencasts to see how the other side does things.
11:25	pdk	,(. Integer TYPE)
11:25	clojurebot	int
11:25	pdk	hm
11:25	AWizzArd	,(instance? Boolean/TYPE (Boolean. true))
11:25	clojurebot	false
11:25	tonyl	Integer/TYPE
11:25	trybeingarun	1. Practical Clojure 2. Programming Clojure 3. Practical Common Lisp 4.On lisp 5. PAIP 6. SCIP
11:26	pdk	,(. Integer getClass)
11:26	clojurebot	java.lang.NoSuchFieldException: getClass
11:26	tonyl	i would say on lisp first then anything else would make sense, if you are new to lisp of course
11:26	pdk	on lisp makes sense after you've learned the basic stuff
11:26	pdk	practical clojure is a little sparse
11:27	pdk	though if you already know java and skimmed through some other lisp tutorials it could be helpful
11:27	pdk	,(. (new Integer) getClass)
11:27	trybeingarun	Also, I have heard great things about SICP. But the fact that it is being recommended heavily by universities itself makes me a bit anxious.
11:27	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching ctor found for class java.lang.Integer
11:27	trybeingarun	Will it be too theoritical??
11:28	trybeingarun	I know java.
11:28	pdk	it's probably the first thing people will name if you say you want to learn scheme
11:29	pdk	i don't see any big reason to worry but if you want to be sure maybe do practical clojure to learn the basic concepts like what a form is, funargs etc
11:30	trybeingarun	What are you guys using clojure for? I am looking at it just for fun (I mean doing some pet projects)
11:31	puredanger	trybeingarun: large data integration w/ semantic web tech
11:31	tonyl	me too
11:31	tonyl	i am learning some game theory with it too
11:32	tonyl	and a have a project in the future for a web app
11:32	trybeingarun	how easy/difficult is it to adapt to pure clojure (FP) mindset.
11:33	trybeingarun	Of course, it is kind of a stupid question because it cant be quantified
11:33	puredanger	trybeingarun: anyone that thinks about programming seriously should read SICP imho, regardless of what lang you use. But I'm not sure it's the best way to dabble in FP.
11:33	trybeingarun	but, more particularly, any pain/pleasure points?
11:33	trybeingarun	Then I will surely read SICP
11:34	puredanger	trybeingarun: you might have fun using Clojure Koans https://github.com/functional-koans/clojure-koans
11:34	trybeingarun	for(int i = 0; i < blah; i++) {printf ("This has been my life so far");}
11:35	tonyl	trybeingerun: for me there was a learning curve (new to fp, lisp, and jave newbee) but it is worth it
11:36	tonyl	i see some problems in a different perspective
11:36	pdk	you could also learn more about fp by looking into books/articles etc on fp in general or other fp languages
11:36	pdk	say haskell or some variety of ML
11:36	trybeingarun	tonyl: could you please elaborate? What do you value most?
11:36	tonyl	change that to ##(doseq [x (range 10)] (prn "This is now how I do it"))
11:36	sexpbot	⟹ "This is now how I do it" "This is now how I do it" "This is now how I do it" "This is now how I do it" "This is now how I do it" "This is now how I do it" "This is now how I do it" "This is now how I do it" "This is now how I do it" "This is now how I do it" nil
11:37	pdk	chris okasaki also has a good phd thesis out there specifically on data structures in fp
11:37	pdk	later made into a book you could get somewhere say amazon
11:37	tonyl	pdk: that looks interesting
11:37	tonyl	http://www.amazon.com/Purely-Functional-Structures-Chris-Okasaki/dp/0521663504
11:38	trybeingarun	there is some effort going on to rewrite SICP in clojure, right. Anybody knows what happened to it?
11:39	pdk	the purely functional retrogames article series is also interesting
11:39	trybeingarun	sexpbot: funny :)
11:39	AWizzArd	,(integer? 9999999999999)
11:39	clojurebot	java.lang.ExceptionInInitializerError
11:39	pdk	even if you're not looking at games programming it talks about how to go along doing stuff that you'd think would be prohibitive without imperative programming
11:39	tonyl	there is a blog that is trying to do that
11:39	AWizzArd	$(integer? 9999999999999)
11:40	tonyl	&(integer? 9999999999999)
11:40	sexpbot	java.lang.Exception: EvalReader not allowed when read-eval is false.
11:40	pdk	and game coding is usually something where we favor doing things highly imperatively
11:40	trybeingarun	tonyl: Ya. But in some forum I read the author is not responding to any queries and the effort might have halted. (I hope I am wrong :) )
11:41	tonyl	maybe, it's been a while since I read those posts
11:41	tonyl	pdk: where is that series? I am trying to learn to do games in FP
11:41	trybeingarun	@RH: Blip.tv videos are amazing. Did not sleep during any of your talks :P
11:44	pdk	http://prog21.dadgum.com/23.html
11:45	pdk	tonyl
11:45	pdk	also trybeingarun
11:45	trybeingarun	pdk: any particular usecase where FP would do much much better than imperative style?
11:45	pdk	if you're looking into okasaki's book you could also find his phd thesis for free and see if it looks interesting
11:45	pdk	the book pretty much takes the thesis and expands on it
11:45	tonyl	thanks pdk
11:46	pdk	performance wise or in terms of being a more appropriate choice
11:46	trybeingarun	programming choice
11:47	pdk	hm that i couldn't answer 100% off the top of my head though folks are advocating it for any sort of highly concurrent coding
11:47	pdk	if you read on lisp as well it shows how the lisp style macro system can go surprisingly far
11:48	pdk	doing stuff like defining domain specific languages in terms of lisp macros so those mini languages can sit on top of your app
11:48	trybeingarun	Was trying out Practical Common Lisp.
11:49	pdk	on lisp can be had for free in pdf or html as well
11:49	trybeingarun	The author had developed a primitive unit testing framework in just under 30 lines
11:49	trybeingarun	ammmmazing
11:49	pdk	same with pcl
11:49	trybeingarun	code was beautiful
11:49	pdk	good thing too since a hardcover on lisp is still like $140
11:49	pdk	and who knows why
11:50	trybeingarun	$140 ??? I am scared
11:50	Chousuke	I don't remember who it was that said this, but lisp is a language where you can build up the language to suit your problem domain, rather than having to break down your problem into something expressible in the language :)
11:50	pdk	for a physical copy trybeingarun
11:50	tonyl	i think that was paul graham
11:50	pdk	online it can be had for free legitimately
11:50	pdk	yeah it's a paul graham book
11:50	Chousuke	tonyl: probably
11:52	trybeingarun	I just downloaded a copy. Thanks pdf :)
11:52	trybeingarun	Paul Graham was working on his own language (Arc) right
11:52	tonyl	yeah
11:52	trybeingarun	anybody following that?
11:52	pdk	i'd be surprised if arc is still going
11:53	tonyl	is there, but there is not much development last time i checked
11:53	cemerick	pdk: it is, surprisingly.
11:53	pdk	hm
11:53	pdk	arclanguage.org has downloads though the site is incredibly sparse
11:53	cemerick	Nevermind, I'm not suprised :-P
11:53	trybeingarun	A:P
11:53	pdk	and it has recent forum posts
11:55	trybeingarun	Is it true that clojure's Regex support is not as good as perl or ruby's (I think I heard Stuart Halloway saying that in some talk (video))
11:55	tonyl	under it it uses Java's
11:55	cemerick	trybeingarun: Clojure's regex support is as good as Java's, which is to say, very good.
11:55	cemerick	Not as good as perl's presumably.
11:56	cemerick	they are PCRE's, after all :-)
11:56	tonyl	found a bug on the java implementation
11:56	tonyl	but there are workarounds
11:56	trybeingarun	tonyl: what bug?
11:56	pdk	failing that you could just use java regexes anyway :p
11:56	tonyl	umm let me try ig
11:56	tonyl	*it
11:57	tonyl	when you use a [ inside a class group
11:57	pdk	god knows there's probably been countless projects to reimplement perl regex syntax as a java class either way
11:57	tonyl	like this #"[[]"
11:57	tonyl	it throws a matching error
11:58	technomancy	the literal syntax is nicer in Ruby, but I haven't found anything else problematic with Clojure's
11:58	technomancy	part from the fact that they're not callable
11:59	technomancy	*apart
11:59	tonyl	ruby's syntax is like perl isnt? using /regexp/
11:59	technomancy	yeah, more pertinently it supports interpolation and things like /foo/i for case-insensitive
11:59	tonyl	yeah, that is handy
12:00	technomancy	case-insensitive in Clojure looks pretty silly: #"(?i)foo"
12:00	trybeingarun	technomachy: Dude, how is there a fix for emacs' (read-line) issue? (sorry to take to conversation off topic)
12:00	cemerick	tonyl: that's not a bug?
12:00	cemerick	&(re-seq #"[\[]" "[")
12:00	sexpbot	⟹ ("[")
12:00	tonyl	&(re-matches #"[[]" "what [] up?")
12:00	sexpbot	java.util.regex.PatternSyntaxException: Unclosed character class near index 2[[] ^
12:00	tonyl	the [ is not supposed to be a special char inside the []
12:01	cemerick	tonyl: oh, you mean, a bug re: "perl compatible"
12:01	amalloy	tonyl: this was discussed in #clojure a week or two ago. java's regex engine, although supposedly PCRE, does that wrong
12:01	technomancy	trybeingarun: I'm not sure; maybe put your input in the buffer where you launched swank?
12:01	tonyl	yeah, that's what I meant
12:02	tonyl	not only perl, but the only doc http://www.regular-expressions.info/charclass.html
12:02	trybeingarun	technomancy:okay. I will try that
12:02	amalloy	chouser came up with something weird without using \ that i think worked
12:02	tonyl	unless there is a specification that I don't know about, and that always happens :P
12:02	amalloy	&#"[[[]]" maybe
12:02	sexpbot	java.util.regex.PatternSyntaxException: Unclosed character class near index 4[[[]] ^
12:03	tonyl	now I'm intrigued how he did it
12:03	cemerick	tonyl: to be fair, the javadoc for j.u.Pattern doesn't claim to be perl-compatible shrug
12:03	tonyl	yeah, understandable
12:03	amalloy	&#"[[]]"
12:03	sexpbot	java.util.regex.PatternSyntaxException: Unclosed character class near index 3[[]] ^
12:03	tonyl	and easy to workaround \
12:04	amalloy	feh
12:04	cemerick	I'll always miss the named groups in python's impl
12:04	fogus_	cemerick: until Java7 anyway
12:04	cemerick	fogus_: oh really?
12:04	fogus_	I think I read that somewhere
12:05	cemerick	That'd be phantabulous.
12:05	fogus_	cemerick: http://download.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/api/java/util/regex/Pattern.html#groupname
12:05	tonyl	&(let [[a b c] (re-matches #"([-+]?[0-9]+)/([0-9]+)" "22/7")] [a b c])
12:05	sexpbot	⟹ ["22/7" "22" "7"]
12:06	cemerick	indeed
12:06	tonyl	destructuring helps you name the groups
12:06	cemerick	fogus_: the 6 years were worth the wait! :-P
12:06	cemerick	Man, matcher destructuring discussed again…
12:09	defn	hello all
12:09	fogus_	well, re-matches returns a vector no?
12:09	tonyl	here's chousers ##(re-find #"[[]]]" "]")
12:09	sexpbot	⟹ "]"
12:10	fogus_	,(re-matches #"(\d) (\d) (\d)" "1 2 3")
12:10	clojurebot	["1 2 3" "1" "2" "3"]
12:10	defn	##(re-find #"[[]]]" "]")
12:10	sexpbot	⟹ "]"
12:10	defn	did sexpbot change again?
12:10	defn	-> (+ 1 2)
12:10	defn	guess so...
12:11	cemerick	fogus_: true, thought I saw re-matcher
12:11	fogus_	cemerick: did you see my tweet about matcher destructuring? it was sick (in a bad way)
12:12	defn	i saw it. i threw up.
12:13	amalloy	defn: sexpbot changes a lot, though last i checked -> still worked. weird
12:13	amalloy	but & is easier to type as a prefix, and ## works anywhere in the message
12:13	sexpbot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: works in this context
12:14	cemerick	fogus_: Hrm, perhaps.
12:14	amalloy	sexpbot: wtf, i fixed that problem
12:14	cemerick	I remember seeing matcher destructuring lately somewhere, and being surprised that it was supported at all.
12:14	cemerick	Side-effecting destructuring?
12:14	cemerick	etc
12:14	amalloy	cemerick: what side effects?
12:15	amalloy	when you destructure a matcher it gives you the groups of the most recent find, without starting a new find
12:16	fogus_	amalloy: But you have to start the find in the first place
12:16	defn	#((\()))
12:16	defn	##((\()))
12:16	sexpbot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Character cannot be cast to clojure.lang.IFn
12:16	amalloy	fogus_: certainly. which is why there are no side effects in the destructuring
12:17	amalloy	defn: it's actually my code
12:17	fogus_	amalloy: I see what you mean
12:17	fogus_	http://twitter.com/#!/learnclojure/status/1746438878920704
12:18	amalloy	defn: the regex for matching ## 'things is pretty awful tbh
12:18	sexpbot	⟹ things
12:19	amalloy	(and next time he pulls, it won't match words mid-message in case someone wants to talk about channels with two #s)
12:20	defn	amalloy: i can show you some code that's worse...
12:20	amalloy	defn: i wouldn't be surprised, but have you looked at the regex? :P
12:21	defn	amalloy: https://github.com/defn/walton/blob/master/src/walton/core.clj#L38
12:22	defn	it was designed to be "fast", and by "fast" i mean "completely incomprehensible"
12:22	cemerick	amalloy: fair enough, not side-effecting destructuring; rather, side-effectable destructuring :-P
12:22	amalloy	defn: condp instead of cond would make things a lot more readable
12:23	amalloy	and personally i'd use a map of {character=>keyword} pairs - surely a hashtable lookup is faster than testing N boolean expressions?
12:24	defn	amalloy: good point
12:24	cemerick	oddly enough, the matcher destructuring isn't congruent with re-groups (i.e. doesn't include group 0)
12:24	amalloy	also, you test for \\ twice in a row
12:24	Chousuke	amalloy: depends on the number of boolean expressions I guess.
12:24	defn	amalloy: yeah im re-reading this code now -- i just left it alone once it was done
12:24	fliebel	How can I read json, and return nil if it fails? This raises an exception, while the doc says it dhould retorn nil, if I'm correct. (read-json-from "" true false nil)
12:25	fliebel	(hi defn)
12:25	defn	(hi fliebel)
12:26	AWizzArd	fliebel: you can embed it into a try/catch
12:26	fliebel	AWizzArd: try is bulky, and the docs say it should be able to return nil if it find an empty string.
12:27	trybeingarun	Almost midnight @ India. Bye guys!
12:28	joegallo	drewr: Maintain radio silence!
12:28	drewr	joegallo: yessir
12:29	joegallo	drewr: Heh, we're having seekaret conversations over here. Ssshhh.
12:34	fliebel	I found a bug in clojure.contrib.json.
12:36	fliebel	Consider this bit and then try &\|(char −1)\|& on the REPL. if we are at the end of a file, we're never going to make it to the if statement. https://github.com/richhickey/clojure-contrib/blob/1e3333335334139669fb1e859fb0c3cb77b968df/src/main/clojure/clojure/contrib/json.clj#L116-121
12:36	sexpbot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: −1 in this context
12:37	fliebel	huh...
12:37	fogus_	cemerick: Yeah, it's messed up (technical term). Creating that little snippet of matcher destructuring convinced me to never do it again.
12:37	Raynes	fliebel: Use ##(char -1) now, btw.
12:37	sexpbot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Value out of range for char: -1
12:37	fliebel	ty
12:39	cemerick	rhickey: What was the motivation for destructuring of j.u.Matchers?
12:58	fliebel	Where do I submit bugs and how do I get this contributors agreement to fix things myself?
12:59	arohner	fliebel: the CA is http://clojure.org/contributing
13:07	fliebel	arohner: Thanks. Do I really need to send this in for… submitting a bug?
13:08	arohner	fliebel: I don't think so. I think you only need to for submitting patches
13:08	amalloy	fliebel: and more power to you if you manage to fix anything. i got my CA in like a month ago, but gave up on changing anything because the instructions are so out-of-date and circular
13:09	arohner	oh, and bugs go here http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CLJ
13:12	fliebel	arohner: I thought I red you need to be contributer to be allowed to be on there, but I'm on it right now and everything seems fine.
13:12	cemerick	fliebel: anyone can submit a bug. The CA is needed only if you're contributing code.
13:13	jimdagem	hi
13:13	cemerick	amalloy: I'm guessing the docs haven't been updated to reflect the move to JIRA, but: fix, produce patch, upload?
13:13	amalloy	cemerick: upload to where?
13:14	cemerick	amalloy: as an attachment to the corresponding JIRA ticket
13:14	esj	cemerick: your maven Enforcer just slapped me around for my own good :) Time for maven 3.0....
13:15	cemerick	esj: ?
13:16	jimdagem	How do I properly do what I'm trying to do: http://pastebin.com/zsXSbzS6
13:16	esj	I tried to build core.unify with maven. The build, courtesy of the Enforcer Plugin, told me that my Maven v 2.2.0 was no good. Reading through the poms, I'm deciding it must be your fault :)
13:17	cemerick	esj: Indeed, v2.2.0 won't do :-)
13:17	clojurebot	#<RuntimeException java.lang.RuntimeException: org.apache.http.conn.HttpHostConnectException: Connection to https://api.del.icio.us refused>
13:17	zmyrgel	hmm, I'm trying to assoc new value with my state record but it fails with "String cannot be cast to Associative"
13:18	cemerick	esj: IIRC, v2.2.0 didn't play well with gpg, used for signing artifacts
13:19	amalloy	jimdagem: (declare fib) (def fib (memoize (fn [x] ...))) is the hack i use
13:19	esj	cemerick: cool, I should be on the latest stable anyway. Now I just have to figure out how to make clojure:swank come back.
13:20	jimdagem	amalloy, sweet!
13:20	zmyrgel	here's the code piece causing the error: http://pastebin.com/c38Lq91F
13:20	jimdagem	clojure is so neato
13:20	fliebel	My bug: http://dev.clojure.org/jira/browse/CONTRIB-101
13:21	amalloy	zmyrgel: your state is being set to a string instead of a map somehow, is what your error message says
13:21	amalloy	or your move, i guess
13:22	fogus_	pdlogan: You sir are a glutton for painful twitter conversations. ;-)
13:23	amalloy	although, jimdagem, better still is not to memoize fib at all
13:23	zmyrgel	hmm, I'll check what gets passed to the function
13:23	amalloy	jimdagem: http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Fibonacci_sequence#Clojure
13:26	zmyrgel	ha, my previous function returned a string instead of associating it with a state
14:02	Phantom_Hoover	([f xs] (reduce (fn [a x] (+ a (f x))) 0 xs)))
14:03	Phantom_Hoover	Does Clojure pattern match with vectors?
14:03	amalloy	Phantom_Hoover: not as far as i know, but i'm not sure i understand what your snippet is supposed to do
14:03	Phantom_Hoover	Wait, me neither...
14:04	chouser	heh
14:04	amalloy	wow, a hit and run
14:04	esj	grin
14:11	pdlogan	fogus_: I simply unfollowed him. nevermore.
14:32	KirinDave	technomancy: I do not understand octo-inc's utility. Is this trololo time or am I yet again too obtuse for this community? :)
14:32	pppaul	(defn 2d-map [fn 2d-array]
14:32	pppaul	(map (fn [row]
14:32	pppaul	(map fn row))
14:32	pppaul	2d-array))
14:32	pppaul	is something like that in core?
14:33	Chousuke	no
14:33	technomancy	KirinDave: oh man we use oinc all the time. it's like the fibbonacci of sonian.
14:33	alpheus	Is there something like binding that will work across threads?
14:33	chouser	alpheus: binding in 1.3 :-/
14:33	amalloy	alpheus: ##(doc bound-fn)?
14:33	sexpbot	⟹ "Macro ([& fntail]); Returns a function defined by the given fntail, which will install the same bindings in effect as in the thread at the time bound-fn was called. This may be used to define a helper function which runs on a different thread, but needs the same bindings in place."
14:34	tonyl	or def ?
14:34	KirinDave	technomancy: Trololo
14:34	technomancy	chouser: it's not binding though; it's with-redefs, isn't it?
14:34	technomancy	KirinDave: exactly.
14:34	KirinDave	technomancy: Link to isthereaproblem.com
14:34	chouser	heh. depends on what you want. all these answers are good.
14:35	KirinDave	chouser: Didn't you have some rationale for not using :use, or using with with blank :onlys or something?
14:35	KirinDave	chouser: I think I remember you mentioning this, but I can't remember why. it came up the other day.
14:35	fliebel	Would it be doable/easy/useful to implement things like agents, refs and atoms over a network, for managing state of multiplayer/-user games/applications?
14:35	alpheus	tonyl: def just changes the root binding, so I don't think that's what I want.
14:36	amalloy	fliebel: you want the state in a server somewhere, right? if you rely on the clients to keep it, it's easy to cheat
14:36	chouser	alpheus: with-redefs temporarily changes the root binding, binding in 1.3 automatically passes the dynamic state across 'future' and 'send' calls
14:36	chouser	alpheus: short of those, see bound-fn
14:37	alpheus	So, bound-fn for now, then just call future directly in 1.3?
14:38	chouser	KirinDave: 'use' has a superset of 'require's fetures, plus a bad default. so using :only [] in 'use' means it behaves sanely to start with, and then you can add/remove options as needed without switching to/from 'require'
14:38	fliebel	amalloy: I'm thinking of keeping the state on the server, but do (swap) or (send) or whatever sortof RMI style.
14:38	chouser	alpheus: that should do it.
14:38	ossareh	technomancy: stupid question, why is oinc any different than (+ 8 x) ?
14:38	KirinDave	ossareh: needs more obfuscation.
14:39	hiredman	the infamous octo-inc
14:39	pjstadig	o stands for octo
14:39	hiredman	well played
14:40	ossareh	KirinDave: I'm referring to this: http://twitter.com/#!/technomancy/status/4617786731008000
14:40	KirinDave	ossareh: So was I
14:40	ossareh	I'm confused then :)
14:41	pjstadig	oinc is much cooler than (+ 8 x)
14:41	technomancy	it's "more functional"
14:41	technomancy	since it involves more functions.
14:41	pjstadig	and shorter
14:41	tonyl	where is this oinc?
14:41	KirinDave	Lazier
14:41	ossareh	tonyl: see the link above
14:41	pjstadig	and we all know short and incomprehensible is better than long and understandable
14:41	chouser	has a bug
14:41	fliebel	technomancy: Hoave you seen my awesome function for generating an infinit lazy seq of ones?
14:42	ossareh	chouser: followed up in the next tweet
14:42	ossareh	http://twitter.com/#!/technomancy/status/4618155515191296
14:42	chouser	oh
14:42	hiredman	,(nth (iterate inc 1) 7)
14:42	clojurebot	8
14:43	fliebel	What is the difference between base and ancestors?
14:43	ossareh	technomancy, KirinDave: I'm not at the level of foo that I get either the application or the humour behind this :)
14:43	KirinDave	Well, I heard that you liked function calls
14:44	KirinDave	So Phil put some function calls in your function calls
14:45	amalloy	hiredman: i was looking around for your pl macro this morning, but i can't seem to find it
14:46	fogus_	,(let [oinc (fn [n] (reduce + n (map #(%) (repeat 2r000001000 #(*)))))] [(oinc 8) (oinc 32)])
14:46	clojurebot	[16 40]
14:48	technomancy	fogus_: hats off to you sir.
14:48	pjstadig	holy crap fogus_
14:48	amalloy	fogus_: #(*) is comical
14:48	KirinDave	So what are people using for date handling these days?
14:48	pjstadig	you have a new presentation for the meetup
14:48	KirinDave	Just raw-dogging on Joda Time?
14:48	ossareh	KirinDave: joda
14:49	KirinDave	Wasn't clj-time gonna start to bite into that?
14:49	fogus_	There must be a better way to obfuscate the number 8 than 2r000001000
14:49	amalloy	fogus_: (count "fourteen")?
14:49	fogus_	oooo, that's pretty cool
14:50	KirinDave	technomancy: You know, there's got to be something amusing you could do with the way clojure handles arglists.
14:50	ossareh	KirinDave: http://dev.clojure.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=950382 <- this is good. clj-time has some very good work in it.
14:50	hiredman	clojurebot: transform
14:50	clojurebot	transform is http://github.com/hiredman/odds-and-ends/blob/8a84e6ddbad9d71f714ba16c3e1239633228a7eb/functional.clj
14:50	hiredman	amalloy: somewhere there
14:50	amalloy	ah, thanks
14:50	pjstadig	church numerals?
14:51	fogus_	pjstadig: need to think of how to fit that into a tweet
14:51	fliebel	ossareh: How do you do those italic messages you just did?
14:51	amalloy	fliebel: /me whatever
14:52	amalloy	and how they show up depends on your client. they don't look italic to me
14:53	KirinDave	I wonder if you can get an arglist where it does work.
14:56	fogus_	This is kinda weird: (defn oinc [num] (reduce + num (map #(%) (repeat (inc (count (str (:arglists (meta oinc))))) #(*)))))
14:57	amalloy	fogus_: that's horrible. but like, horrible-good
14:58	ossareh	fwiw, all this obfuscated clojure is somewhat like what I'm working with now: imovie.
14:58	amalloy	fogus_: ##(first (nth (iterate (fn [[a b]] [b (+ a b)]) [0 1]) 6)) maybe?
14:58	sexpbot	⟹ 8
14:59	amalloy	cause you might as well compute some fibonacci numbers if you're going to add eight
15:00	esj	KirinDave: clj-time is built around joda AFAIK
15:05	fogus_	I think I'll just stick with this one: (defn oinc "fourteen" [n] (reduce + n (map #(%) (repeat (.length ((keyword (apply str (map char [100 111 99]))) (meta (var oinc)))) #(*)))))
15:06	fogus_	140 chars FTW!
15:07	chouser	Curious George golf
15:07	kotarak	What is this oinc stuff about?
15:08	amalloy	kotarak: there seems to be a competition to come up with the grossest way to write #(+ 8 %)
15:08	kotarak	oh, ah,
15:08	Kjellski	ping?
15:08	clojurebot	PONG!
15:09	Kjellski	,(indexed (seq "Where are you"))
15:09	clojurebot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: indexed in this context
15:09	kotarak	,(map-indexed vector "Here")
15:09	clojurebot	([0 \H] [1 \e] [2 \r] [3 \e])
15:09	tonyl	&(String/parseInt "3" 10)
15:09	sexpbot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No matching method: parseInt
15:09	tonyl	what?!
15:09	kotarak	,(Integer/valueOf "3" 10)
15:10	clojurebot	3
15:10	amalloy	tonyl: Integer/parseInt
15:11	Kjellski	kotarak: thanks a lot ^^ was looking at the docs, and they´re unfortunately wrong... http://richhickey.github.com/clojure-contrib/seq-utils-api.html
15:11	Kjellski	kotarak: Or am I?
15:11	amalloy	Kjellski: neither
15:11	kotarak	Kjellski: The docs are now at clojure.github.com/clojure-contrib
15:11	amalloy	that function is in clojure.contrib.seq-utils, not in core
15:12	amalloy	&(require clojure.contrib.seq-utils)
15:12	sexpbot	java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.contrib.seq-utils
15:12	amalloy	&(require 'clojure.contrib.seq-utils)
15:12	sexpbot	java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate clojure/contrib/seq_utils__init.class or clojure/contrib/seq_utils.clj on classpath:
15:12	Kjellski	What a mess, sorry but where do I need to look at if I want to see just the latest docs?
15:12	amalloy	bah
15:12	kotarak	Kjellski: http://clojure.github.com/clojure (resp. ....-contrib)
15:13	Kjellski	kotarak: Thanks in advance for the next years ^^
15:13	tonyl	:P
15:13	kotarak	Kjellski: you are welcome >^.^<
15:23	tonyl	&(reduce + (map #(Integer/valueOf (str %) 10) (remove #(= % \.) (subs (str Math/PI) 0 4)))
15:23	sexpbot	java.lang.Exception: EOF while reading
15:23	tonyl	&(reduce + (map #(Integer/valueOf (str %) 10) (remove #(= % \.) (subs (str Math/PI) 0 4))))
15:23	sexpbot	⟹ 8
15:26	amalloy	tonyl: #{\.} is the same as #(= % \.)
15:28	tonyl	wow
15:29	tonyl	how if it is a set ...
15:29	tonyl	&(reduce + (map #(Integer/valueOf (str %) 10) (remove #{\.} (subs (str Math/PI) 0 4)))
15:29	kotarak	,(#{\.} \.)
15:29	clojurebot	\.
15:29	tonyl	oh man
15:29	raek	well, a set used as a function will not return true/false, but the-element/nil
15:29	kotarak	,(#{\.} \a)
15:29	clojurebot	nil
15:29	amalloy	&(map #{:a :b :c} [1 2 3 :a 3 :b])
15:29	sexpbot	⟹ (nil nil nil :a nil :b)
15:30	raek	but for truthiness, it's requivalent
15:30	tonyl	i knew that and i can't still wrap my head around the possibilities
15:30	tonyl	&(reduce + (map #(Integer/valueOf (str %) 10) (remove #{\.} (subs (str Math/PI) 0 4)))
15:30	sexpbot	java.lang.Exception: EOF while reading
15:30	raek	:)
15:30	kotarak	,(some #{false} [true true false true]) ;:P
15:30	clojurebot	nil
15:31	tonyl	&(reduce + (map #(Integer/valueOf (str %) 10) (remove #{\.} (subs (str Math/PI) 0 4))))
15:31	sexpbot	⟹ 8
15:31	amalloy	tonyl: my favorite example of using objects as functions: ##(filter (comp #{"david"} :first) [{:first "steve" :last "smith"} {:first "david" :last "roberts"}])
15:31	sexpbot	⟹ ({:first "david", :last "roberts"})
15:31	tonyl	composing a set and a keyword
15:32	tonyl	thanks guys, clojure doesn't stop amazing me
15:34	Kjellski	Somebody with a fresh install of clojurebox arround? Could you try to define a namespace in a file buffer and use C-c C-c to run?
15:37	alpheus	kotka has a nice write-up on bound-fn: http://kotka.de/blog/2010/05/Did_you_know_IV.html
15:37	Kjellski	Right now, C-c C-c over (ns foo.bar) leads to "No such namespace: de.kjellski.games.bagels [Thrown class java.lang.Exception]" ...
15:45	raek	Kjellski: does the same thing happen with C-x C-e and C-M-x ?
15:45	raek	(I don't have clojurebox)
15:45	talios	Morning.
15:46	Kjellski	raek: Hmmmm, that leads somewhere... it seems to work with C-x C-e when I´m at the end of the whole sexp...
15:48	Kjellski	raek: And surprisingly the C-c C-c works there as well....
15:48	Kjellski	raek: At least a nice workarround, thanks!
15:49	raek	Kjellski: C-M-x should work "in the middle"
15:50	Kjellski	raek: There you go, thanks, it works in the middle as well =)
15:51	Kjellski	raek: =( but I was already used to C-c C-c in the last version of ClojureBox...
15:54	amalloy	well, i guess he left. but emacs does the same thing for C-c C-c, if you haven't already compiled the whole file once with C-c C-k, in my experience
15:57	sthuebne_	I've just noticed technomancy's and cemerick's tweets regarding version ranges. That reminded me to ask, how the DSL for Lein/Maven/anythng is coming along?
16:00	pppaul	anyone think that something like this would be useful in contrib?
16:00	pppaul	user=> (def matrix [[1 2][3 4]])
16:00	pppaul	user=> (map-2d #(* % 2) matrix)
16:00	pppaul	((2 4) (6 8))
16:00	pppaul	((user=> (map-2d #(* %1 %2) matrix matrix)
16:00	pppaul	((1 4) (9 16))
16:02	pppaul	or something like a function/macro that is a nested map of n depth?
16:03	pppaul	or, am i nuts?
16:04	LauJensen	You guys know when you do a SELECT statement in the mysql client, you get a really nicely formatted table as the output? Do we have a pretty printer for that in clojure-land ?
16:05	pppaul	there is a pprint
16:05	pppaul	contrib.pprint and core
16:05	LauJensen	pppaul: I know, but does it handle resultset-seqs ?
16:06	pppaul	example?
16:06	clojurebot	examples is http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Clojure_Programming/Examples/API_Examples
16:06	kotarak	LauJensen: you can specify format strings on steroids.
16:06	kotarak	kind a map-like
16:07	kotarak	(the function map, not the structure map)
16:07	sthuebne_	format is voodoo
16:07	LauJensen	Ah right, format might be the ticket. It would have been in CL thats for sure
16:08	LauJensen	thanks kotarak
16:08	LauJensen	kotarak: btw, clojureql 1.0.0-beta1 release is now imminent :)
16:08	kotarak	you are welcome, my danish friend
16:08	kotarak	LauJensen: I'm following it.
16:09	LauJensen	Hopefully tomorrow or the day after at the latest
16:10	scottj	what did you guys think of clojurize?
16:11	LauJensen	scottj: is it a movie that just came out?
16:11	sthuebne_	LauJensen: BTW: what's the state of affairs regarding DSL for pom/project.clj
16:11	sthuebne_	=
16:11	sthuebne_	?
16:11	LauJensen	sthuebne_: read the google group 'project.clj spec'
16:11	sthuebne_	oh
16:11	sthuebne_	I wasn't aware of that
16:12	stuartsierra	The State of Affairs is: Growling and gnashing of teeth
16:12	scottj	http://anvil.io/2010/10/25/clojurize-the-data-not-the-database.html
16:12	sthuebne_	LauJensen: thanks for the pointere!
16:12	sthuebne_	Jesus, I miss my keyboard
16:13	LauJensen	scottj: its not really interesting to me
16:13	LauJensen	sthuebne_: nps :)
16:13	scottj	LauJensen: why? it seems very similar to clojureql
16:14	LauJensen	scottj: Its totally different. Its based on SQL
16:26	clizzin1	this is a pretty dumb question, but how do i convert a map to a sorted-map?
16:27	amalloy	clizzin1: ##(into (sorted-map) {1 2. :a 4})
16:27	sexpbot	java.lang.ClassCastException: java.lang.Integer cannot be cast to clojure.lang.Keyword
16:27	amalloy	bleh whatever. do it like that
16:28	clizzin1	thanks amalloy!
16:33	LauJensen	I need the latest artifact for clojure.contrib.sql, where do I find its group/artifact-id ?
16:36	talios	LauJensen: that
16:36	kotarak	org.clojure.contrib/sql maybe?
16:36	talios	that's mentioned in the pom - https://github.com/clojure/clojure-contrib/blob/master/modules/sql/pom.xml - org.clojure.contrib:sql
16:36	LauJensen	kotarak: I dont need the name itself as much as I need a method for getting that an other artifact names. hudson isnt being very helpful
16:36	LauJensen	ah right
16:37	LauJensen	And these modules are only available from 1.3.0 right?
16:37	talios	I believe so yes.
16:37	talios	the split up was post 1.2
16:42	clizzin1	if i want to write a custom compare function in clojure for use in sort-by, how do i make it implement java.util.Comparator?
16:43	sthuebne_	stuartsierra, LauJensen Now, I'm up-to-date. A clash of philosophies.
16:43	LauJensen	sthuebne_: What are we talking about now?
16:43	sthuebne_	sorry ,-)
16:43	sthuebne_	project.clj
16:43	LauJensen	ooh :)
16:45	sthuebne_	What is the goal of a unified DSL for describing builds?
16:47	LOPP	clizzin all functions are comparators
16:47	clojurebot	functions are maps
16:47	sthuebne_	the existing build tools, that happen to use similar dialects for build specs, work very different. on purpose I suppose
16:47	LOPP	they will fail to work if they don't have 2 arguments
16:48	LauJensen	sthuebne_: Ease of implementing these. Right now consumers of project.clj have to make 1 implementation for each build tool
16:48	LauJensen	Even simple builds fail to run of all 3 tools, which sucks
16:48	sthuebne_	I see that.
16:51	sthuebne_	it seems, that only simple builds are likely to be portable between the three
16:51	LauJensen	True
16:52	sthuebne_	correct me if I'm wrong, but Lein plugins work very different (on a different level) than Maven plugins.
16:52	LauJensen	Very differently
16:52	talios	I think the goal of a unified DSL for builds is good, but fundamentally flawed.
16:53	sthuebne_	there might be a chance to align plugin names and to make sure, that plugins exist in both/all three worlds
16:53	LauJensen	sthuebne_: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3906276/whats-the-difference-between-cake-and-leiningen - See lancepantz reply
16:53	sthuebne_	that provide the same behaviour
16:53	talios	sthuebne_: really? you're going to implement EVERY SINGLE MAVEN PLUGIN?
16:53	talios	ejb? xml paring? osgi?
16:53	sthuebne_	talios: no!
16:54	talios	sthuebne_: and thus dies the aim of a cross build that works :(
16:54	sthuebne_	I was thinking of the opposite - have maven plugins where Leiningen's plugins are unique
16:54	sthuebne_	but that seems sort of stupid as well
16:55	sthuebne_	why multiplying efforts
16:55	talios	true, but given anyone can create lein plugins, and people often do ( such as Brian Marrick's midge plugin ) - it'll be an endless game of rinse and repeat
16:55	sthuebne_	exactly
16:55	technomancy	I don't really understand the motivation. Do you see people wanting to use make to build clojure because they are opposed to greenspunning?
16:55	talios	unless you mean "core" plugins
16:56	talios	technomancy: autoconf for the win :-)
16:56	talios	they don't even use make anymore :)
16:56	technomancy	talios: I almost said autoconf but didn't want to give anyone the shivers =)
16:57	talios	you're too nice then.
16:58	LauJensen	I would really love a Clojurish build tool which plugged into the entire Maven world, plugins going back and forth etc
16:59	LauJensen	I will call it : Mavadvenjure
17:00	talios	LauJensen: if it's declaritve only, it could be doable. but the moment you bring in any form of dynamic scripty ness, you lose that two-way round trip. as the DSL builds a model that can't generate itself (only its canonical representation)
17:01	sthuebne_	I head a brief chat with Jazon van Zyl earlier this year. I was asking him (since pmaven was new to me back then), whether pmaven would provide anything like a "scriptable" build.
17:01	talios	which, when you look at things like the maven-release-plugin which update version numbers, could be an issue.
17:01	talios	sthuebne_ - my origin clojure-pmaven work had full scriptable ness, to generate the model.
17:02	talios	as does the groovy and scala versions
17:02	sthuebne_	yeah, that's what they do - they generate the model
17:03	talios	that's really all they can do, its also what gradle does
17:03	sthuebne_	maybe I didn't understand the current implementation of it, but it seemed to me to be really just a different language to describe the model. how would you add dynamics?
17:04	LauJensen	I hate to leave in the middle of this, but I have to, goodnight everybody
17:04	talios	mmm, i see the wiki's not been updated, but in my original code, you could do: (if-not (contains-plugin? main "some.groups:plugin")
17:04	talios	(add-plugin! main ["some.groups:plugin:1.0" {:configuration {:name "value"}}]))
17:05	talios	dynamically adding a dependency, you could dynamically modify/update/add plugins etc.
17:05	talios	I guess the core question to ask is.... what kind of dynamic nature do you want.
17:06	LOPP	I often see #' in the code
17:06	LOPP	I forgot...when am I supposed to use that
17:07	cemerick	LOPP: that give you the named var, rather than its value
17:07	cemerick	&#'+
17:07	sexpbot	⟹ #'clojure.core/+
17:07	cemerick	&+
17:07	sexpbot	⟹ #<core$_PLUS_ clojure.core$_PLUS_@b5f87c>
17:07	cemerick	same as (var +)
17:07	LOPP	ok but why do you use that
17:07	talios	'lo cemerick
17:08	cemerick	LOPP: so you can do things with vars instead of their values :-)
17:08	cemerick	talios: afternoon :-)
17:08	talios	morning :-) 11:11am here.
17:08	sthuebne_	talios: grep doesn't find any "add-plugin" on master
17:08	cemerick	talios: damn! :-P
17:09	sthuebne_	sorry, I've started it.
17:09	talios	sthuebne_: sadly when antony ported/rewrote my initially implementation he removed all those dsl things ;(
17:10	sthuebne_	I was late to the project.clj--spec discussion in the first place
17:10	sthuebne_	that's a long time indeed
17:11	talios	work and the podcast got in the way, along with the realization that it was mostly a futile effort.
17:12	sthuebne_	from the current perspective it's just a different language to express the very same thing
17:12	talios	that looses the two-way roundtrip nature, and breaks the ecosystem.
17:13	sthuebne_	realizing that, I was asking myself what the actual point would be, to have a clojure-ish POM
17:14	talios	XML is evil didn't you know?
17:15	sthuebne_	sure, whatever they say
17:17	stuartsierra	talios: any idea why this fails?
17:17	stuartsierra	http://build.clojure.org/job/clojure-testbuild/8/console
17:17	LOPP	is there a reason not to use #'x instead of x?
17:18	sthuebne_	its verbose, OK. but honestly, I can write POMs for fairly complex builds by just using nXML in Emacs and nobody ever exposed me to a build tool, that wouldn't force me to write my builds in one or another language myself
17:18	amalloy	LOPP: they're different things
17:18	Raynes	&(macroexpand '#'blah)
17:18	sexpbot	⟹ (var blah)
17:18	amalloy	&(#'first first)
17:18	sexpbot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Don't know how to create ISeq from: clojure.core$first
17:18	amalloy	&([#'first first])
17:18	sexpbot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Wrong number of args (0) passed to: PersistentVector
17:18	Raynes	&(macroexpand first)
17:18	sexpbot	⟹ #<core$first clojure.core$first@615dc4>
17:18	amalloy	damn it. whatever
17:18	amalloy	&[#'first first]
17:18	sexpbot	⟹ [#'clojure.core/first #<core$first clojure.core$first@615dc4>]
17:18	LOPP	&(#'first [1 2])
17:18	sexpbot	⟹ 1
17:18	Raynes	#'something is just shorthand for (var something)
17:19	LOPP	since #'first works just as well as first, why not always use #'?
17:19	amalloy	LOPP: #' only works for things that have vars
17:19	Raynes	Why would you want to do that in the first place?
17:19	amalloy	(or are vars, if you prefer)
17:20	LOPP	because I have code that uses values
17:20	Raynes	Since (identity (identity (identity 5))) works as well as 5, why not always do that?
17:20	LOPP	then it turned out I had to use #' in various places for it to work properly
17:20	LOPP	that got me thinking, why not preemptively use #' everywhere I can
17:20	LOPP	so far I can see no reason
17:21	amalloy	LOPP: it's a terrible idea. why not check (foo != null) every time you call a method on foo, just in case it's become null when you weren't looking?
17:21	amalloy	in both cases, you're better off actually understanding the difference
17:22	talios	stuartsierra: hmmm, is clojure.java.io.Coercions a .java or .clj file? if the later my guess is the namespace is turning up later in the build path? If you run mvn with -X and get all the debug output we can see the actual command line we're calling
17:22	stuartsierra	neither, it's a protocol defined in io.clj
17:23	LOPP	the problem is where I use lists of listener functions subscribed to events
17:23	LOPP	if I change the function the handler of course doesn't
17:23	LOPP	but ok
17:23	LOPP	here's another question
17:23	LOPP	why is conj '[1 2 3] faster than conj [1 2 3]
17:24	LOPP	sorry
17:24	amalloy	LOPP: if you want to change things, my suggestion is to use something with real STM semantics, like an atom, instead of abusing vars
17:24	stuartsierra	talios: What I don't get is that it works the first time, when it does "mvn clean verify" then fails when it does "mvn deploy"
17:24	LOPP	the whole map is in a ref
17:24	LOPP	but it's a map of vectors of sets
17:25	LOPP	no matter
17:25	LOPP	&(time (dotimes [n 100000] (conj '[1 2 3] 4)))
17:25	sexpbot	⟹ "Elapsed time: 14.451 msecs" nil
17:25	LOPP	&(time (dotimes [n 100000] (conj [1 2 3] 4)))
17:25	sexpbot	⟹ "Elapsed time: 29.008 msecs" nil
17:26	LOPP	why the difference?
17:26	amalloy	you want to...what, be able to change the definition of a listener function with a new defn, and have the objects who were tracking those automagically use the new function of the same name?
17:26	talios	stuartsierra: right - i see no reference to io.clj being compiled before hand in the deploy step, but it does in the first set. thats.... weird.
17:26	amalloy	i mean, yes, that's kinda what vars are for, but it seems like a weird thing to want
17:27	LOPP	don't worry, I'm just messing around a bit... don't really need the solution right now
17:27	Raynes	LOPP: Well, it isn't evaluating anything inside of the vector, for one.
17:28	Raynes	I'm not exactly sure why it would be faster.
17:28	LOPP	here's another problem I have a very unelegant solution for: you have a vector of sets and you need to return a vector of sets where all the intersecting sets are combined
17:28	talios	stuartsierra: if you configure maven to run with -X we can see if the plugins just not telling the compiler to compile io, or if its clojure itself.
17:28	LOPP	yeah it's weird...I mean, won't it have to evaluate that eventually?
17:29	amalloy	all the...intersecting sets are combined? what do you mean by "intersecting" and "combined" here? or give a small-scale example?
17:30	_mst	I remember something (from the clojure group, probably) about the quoted form allowing the reader to create the vector data structure once up front and reuse it for each call
17:30	LOPP	sure
17:30	_mst	whereas the unquoted variant would create a new vector for every iteration
17:30	_mst	but that might be complete rubbish... or I might have dreamt it. I can't find where I read it :)
17:30	stuartsierra	talios: ok, running now at http://build.clojure.org/job/clojure-testbuild/10/console
17:30	LOPP	[#{:a :b :c} #{:c :d} #{:e :f}] -> [#{:a :b :c :d} #{:e :f}]
17:31	LOPP	[#{:a :b} #{:c :d} #{:b :c :e}
17:31	LOPP	-> [#{:a :b :c :d :e}]
17:31	amalloy	i see
17:32	LOPP	I did it but it was ugly as hell
17:32	LOPP	very javaish
17:33	amalloy	off the top of my head, it looks like you want to use reduce, some, and update-in to do the heavy lifting
17:33	stuartsierra	talios: Nuts, same failure, no new information.
17:34	sthuebne_	talios, stuartsierra the order clj-files are compiled is completely different in both steps
17:34	stuartsierra	yes, I think that has something to do with it
17:34	stuartsierra	but in theory it shouldn't matter
17:36	stuartsierra	clojure.java.shell declares :use on clojure.java.io, so clojure.java.io should get compiled automatically when you try to compile clojure.java.shell
17:36	jarpiain	LOPP: (conj '[1 2 3] 4) and (conj [1 2 3] 4) generate exactly same bytecode in 1.3
17:37	stuartsierra	wait a minute
17:38	stuartsierra	"Exception… at clojure.java.shell__init.<clinit>(Unknown Source)"
17:38	talios	stuartsierra: i thought use didn't alter order, but require did
17:38	stuartsierra	talios: Nothing alters order, but any ns that loads other namespaces will cause them to be compiled when it is compiled.
17:38	stuartsierra	BUT
17:38	stuartsierra	In this instance, clojure.java.shell is being loaded from a .class file, not from source.
17:39	stuartsierra	I don't know why
17:39	talios	Hrm
17:39	LOPP	I don't see where I'd use update-in, I have no nesting
17:40	amalloy	yeah, i'm wrong about that part :P
17:40	amalloy	i'm writing it now
17:42	talios	stuartsierra: weird, in the deploy/release phase, that .class shouldn't yet exist as target/checkout/classes should be where it's looking..... blink or is the plugin looking at the wrong place and finding the .class from target/classes ( which would explain it )
17:43	LOPP	I basically combined each set with other set and compared sizes, if it wasn't the sum of the 2 sets I combined then they intersect. However that only works for 2 individual sets, so I had to do iterations of this and I had to rotate which set I started the iteration with. In the end quite ugly.
17:43	stuartsierra	There's something screwy going on with directories, that's for sure.
17:43	talios	odd that -X didnt give the debug info I expected
17:44	stuartsierra	It's becasue the deployment is being controlled by the Sonatype OSS release parent POM
17:44	talios	I'll do some digging when I get home tonight
17:44	stuartsierra	talios: ok, thanks, appreciate it
17:44	sthuebne_	talios: it should report the classpath for plugins, shouldn't it?
17:46	talios	sthuebne_: in this instance its not the classpath of the plugin that's actually the problem, more the directories being configured for it.
17:46	talios	I suspect I've hardcoded a target/classes reference
17:46	talios	or more "outputdirectory/classes"
17:47	sthuebne_	but that should work in case of "release:perform" a ka deploy as well
17:48	talios	but in this case, that {outputdir}/classes still has the .class files from the prepare phaze
17:48	talios	a work around could be release:prepare clean release:perform
17:49	amalloy	LOPP: https://gist.github.com/0557059ea1585b322cec
17:49	sthuebne_	are you shure about that?
17:49	amalloy	not very elegant, but functional (pun intended)
17:49	sthuebne_	release:perform forks a new maven process on a different dir
17:49	sthuebne_	which is target/checkout
17:50	sthuebne_	so, how could the clojure plugin in that other process get hold of the .class files of the former?
17:51	talios	i have NO idea :) the clean step would just proove that. it's possible I'm looking at the wrong var and the one I'm looking at it always "target"
17:53	sthuebne_	OR does one of the profiles do something fishy with sourceDir/outputDirß
17:55	LOPP	I'll check it out
17:56	LOPP	about 3 times shorther than what I wrote
17:56	LOPP	:)
17:56	LOPP	make that 5
17:57	amalloy	oh, i didn't include it in the gist, LOPP, but you have to (use 'clojure.set)
17:57	talios	sthuebne_ - not sure, the log says its all looking at target/checkout/target/* so I'm confused. tho I can't look at it just now work. darn day job ;)
17:58	LOPP	right...what does clojure.set do anyway?
17:58	amalloy	intersect, union, that sort of stuff
17:58	LOPP	all those fns are too complicated
17:58	amalloy	you can write your own union with into, but i assume clojure.set does it better
18:00	quizme	are the clojure conj videos posted online?
18:01	LOPP	what's old-form arg in if-let?
18:02	amalloy	LOPP: something deprecated, don't use it
18:03	sthuebne_	talios: well, my day job is starting in about 7hrs. So I say n8 for now
18:03	chouser	& (if-let a 5 true)
18:03	sexpbot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: if-let requires a vector for its binding
18:05	mjg123	Hello - is "init" a special name for clojure in deftype'd types?
18:05	mjg123	If I wanted to implement javax.servlet.Servlet#init(ServletConfig), how could I do that?
18:07	mjg123	I tried: javax.servlet.Servlet (init [this config] ( ... something ... )) - but no init() method is generated in the .class file
18:07	amalloy	&(if-let a 5 true false)
18:07	sexpbot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: if-let requires a vector for its binding
18:09	bhenry	chouser amalloy ???
18:09	amalloy	bhenry: trying to figure out how to use the old form of if-let to tell LOPP what not to do. fortunately (i guess?) it's hard
18:10	LOPP	:D
18:10	LOPP	yeah :)
18:10	LOPP	well I won't use it
18:13	pppaul	can i use cons cells as keys in my hash-map?
18:14	pppaul	i'm trying and they aren't working... i day or so ago i thought i did some tests that showed i could... maybe they were flawed?
18:15	pppaul	forest
18:15	pppaul	{(1 0) :grass, (0 0) :tree, (1 1) :grass, (0 1) :grass}
18:16	pppaul	that is the hash-map i have, but i have trouble using (get) on it
18:17	pppaul	oh i was using get wrong (arg pos was in wrong order)
18:17	dnolen	,{[1 0] :grass, [0 0] :tree, [1 1] :grass, [0 1] :grass}
18:17	clojurebot	{[1 0] :grass, [0 0] :tree, [1 1] :grass, [0 1] :grass}
18:18	dnolen	,((juxt [1 0] [0 0] [1 1] [0 1]) {[1 0] :grass, [0 0] :tree, [1 1] :grass, [0 1] :grass})
18:18	clojurebot	java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Key must be integer
18:18	dnolen	oops
18:22	pppaul	cons cells work
18:22	pppaul	i was using get like this (get :key :map)
18:22	LOPP	hm amalloy your code for sets doesn't work
18:22	LOPP	(def sets [#{:a :c :b} #{:d :e} #{:c :e}])
18:23	LOPP	(#{:a :c :b :e} #{:d :e})
18:23	LOPP	which is wrong result
18:24	LOPP	I had the same problem, in one pass I only paired the first set with all I could find, but not the others
18:29	tonyl	LOPP do you need to keep the number of sets in the vector? or can it be just one holding all the results?
18:44	amalloy	LOPP: ah, right. because it's not going back and filtering in old sets that now match
18:44	amalloy	tricky
18:45	LOPP	yes
18:45	LOPP	that's the thing...by combining sets you get new matches
18:46	nickik	is there a function to write a vector one value per line into a file
18:46	amalloy	i did something like this in CL in like...april, i think. but there was a guarantee that the final result would be exactly two sets
18:47	LOPP	one thing you can do is maybe put iterate around it and check for when the sequence stabilizes
18:47	amalloy	yeah, i was thinking that too. so gross :P
18:48	LOPP	in any case this is one devilishly complex problem yet it looks so simple, a human can do it easily
18:48	amalloy	LOPP: a human can do it easily for small numbers of small sets
18:48	LOPP	that's true
18:49	tonyl	nickik: something like (doseq [x myvec] (spit myfile (print-str x \newline))
18:49	LOPP	well I did the thing with iterate and the seqence doesn't stabilize, the order of sets keep changing even though the sets themselves don't
18:50	amalloy	hah
18:50	tonyl	LOPP: does it have to keep the number of sets in the vector?
18:50	amalloy	well, that's easy though
18:50	amalloy	just have it operate on a set instead of a vector
18:51	tonyl	or can it output all the items in 1 set as a result
18:51	powr-toc	does anyone know what happened to clojure.contrib.repl-utils/show ?
18:51	powr-toc	I've just updated to 1.2.0
18:51	amalloy	powr-toc: i it's in clojure.repl now, i think
18:51	powr-toc	amalloy, I can't see it in there
18:51	amalloy	or maybe not? i always lose it too
18:51	LOPP	but you want the sets to rotate
18:52	LOPP	because otherwise you might get stuck as in some cases you keep picking same first set as the starting set
18:52	LOPP	and you might not progress
18:52	kjellski	What is the right way to look at wethere a seq contains an element or not?
18:52	amalloy	kjellski: ##(doc some)
18:52	sexpbot	⟹ "([pred coll]); Returns the first logical true value of (pred x) for any x in coll, else nil. One common idiom is to use a set as pred, for example this will return :fred if :fred is in the sequence, otherwise nil: (some #{:fred} coll)"
18:53	amalloy	LOPP: ? every iteration you'll be removing one element
18:53	kjellski	amalloy: ty
18:53	powr-toc	has show been removed from contrib?
18:53	tonyl	&(apply union [#{:a :c :b} #{:d :e} #{:c :e}])
18:53	sexpbot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: union in this context
18:54	raek	powr-toc: don't think so
18:55	powr-toc	raek, Then where is it?
18:55	tonyl	it is not in clojure.contrib.repl-utils/show ?
18:55	amalloy	tonyl: ##(use 'clojure.set)
18:55	sexpbot	⟹ nil
18:55	tonyl	&(apply union [#{:a :c :b} #{:d :e} #{:c :e}])
18:55	sexpbot	⟹ #{:a :c :b :d :e}
18:56	raek	&(clojure.contrib.repl-utils/show Object #"toString")
18:56	sexpbot	java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: clojure.contrib.repl-utils
18:56	raek	&(require 'clojure.contrib.repl-utils)
18:56	sexpbot	java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate clojure/contrib/repl_utils__init.class or clojure/contrib/repl_utils.clj on classpath:
18:56	tonyl	&clojure-version
18:56	sexpbot	⟹ {:major 1, :minor 2, :incremental 0, :qualifier ""}
18:56	raek	well, I used it yesterday
18:57	amalloy	it's around /somewhere/, but it always takes me ages to find it
18:57	powr-toc	raek: it seems to have vanished for me too :-\
18:57	tonyl	&(find-doc "^show")
18:57	sexpbot	⟹ ------------------------- clj-time.format/show-formatters ([] [dt]) Shows how a given DateTime, or by default the current time, would be formatted with each of the available printing formatters. ------------------------- clj-github.gists/show-gist ([auth id file-... http://gist.github.com/702762
18:57	powr-toc	surely clojure.repl would be a good place for it
18:57	raek	powr-toc: which version?
18:57	powr-toc	1.2.0
18:58	powr-toc	of contrib and clojure
18:58	tonyl	it is in my local contrib
18:58	Raynes	raek: Something weird about sandboxes causes some contrib things to simply disappear in the sandbox. It appears to happen across all sandboxes.
18:58	powr-toc	tonyl: is that 1.2.0 though?
18:58	tonyl	yeah
18:59	tonyl	both clojure and contrib
18:59	tonyl	user=> (find-doc "^show")
18:59	tonyl	-------------------------
18:59	tonyl	clojure.contrib.repl-utils/show
19:00	raek	powr-toc: works in my 1.2 repl
19:00	amalloy	maybe you need lein deps to pull in contrib?
19:00	powr-toc	raek: oh right enough it is in repl-utils
19:01	powr-toc	find-doc wasn't showing it... but I guess I hadn't loaded the namespace
19:02	tonyl	&(require '[clojure.contrib.repl-utils :as repl-utils])
19:02	sexpbot	java.io.FileNotFoundException: Could not locate clojure/contrib/repl_utils__init.class or clojure/contrib/repl_utils.clj on classpath:
19:02	raek	ah, yes. find-doc will only look at the loaded vars...
19:13	kjellski	I´ve got a seq of vectors and want to compare the second values in these vectors, what´s the most idiomatic way?
19:15	amalloy	compare them how? i mean, to get out a seq of the second elements you can just (map second seq-of-vectors)
19:16	kjellski	amalloy: compare them by =
19:17	amalloy	kjellski: you're not saying what you want to /do/ with the results of the comparison. do you want to group the vectors by second element, for example?
19:18	kjellski	I have a sequence like this ([0 \a] [1 \b] ...) and a second one that goes just like this one... now I want to find the position of the elements that are =
19:19	kjellski	amalloy: the index is already in the first elements by map-indexed....
19:22	raek	(map #(= (second %1) (second %2)) seq1 seq2)?
19:23	raek	ah. just read the rest of the text. neverminf.
19:23	amalloy	kjellski: sorry, i still don't understand what you're trying to do
19:23	kjellski	amalloy: just a sec, preparing a snipped ^^
19:24	kjellski	amalloy: I´m trying to translate this python function into clojure: https://gist.github.com/702785
19:24	pppaul	&(take 2 {:a 1 :b 2 :c 3 :d 4})
19:24	sexpbot	⟹ ([:a 1] [:b 2])
19:25	pppaul	how do i feed that into another map using assoc, or something else?
19:25	amalloy	ah
19:26	kjellski	pppaul: ##(into {} (take 2 {:a 1 :b 2 :c 3 :d 4}))
19:26	sexpbot	⟹ {:a 1, :b 2}
19:26	amalloy	i think map-indexed is likely just getting in the way, but no matter
19:26	kjellski	pppaul: where {} is your other map?
19:26	pppaul	same map
19:27	pppaul	i want to do some work on a seq, and assoc back into the map
19:27	amalloy	pppaul: why not use update-in?
19:27	pppaul	cool, i'll look at that
19:27	kjellski	amalloy: I´m still trying to find the right way ^^ open for every solution =)
19:28	pppaul	i'm using this site to help me with the hash-map stuff http://clojure.org/data_structures#Data%20Structures-Maps%20%28IPersistentMap%29
19:28	pppaul	is there a better place i should be looking at?
19:30	amalloy	&(let [[answer guesses :as data] [[1 2 3] [4 2 1]]] (map = data))
19:30	sexpbot	⟹ (true true)
19:31	amalloy	&(let [[answer guesses :as data] [[1 2 3] [4 2 1]]] (apply map = data))
19:31	sexpbot	⟹ (false true false)
19:31	amalloy	kjellski: enough to get you headed in the right direction, maybe?
19:32	kjellski	amalloy: yeah, I hope so... thanks for the start =)
19:55	KirinDave	Hum
19:56	KirinDave	Does anyone here use clojure w/ flume?
19:56	KirinDave	Perhaps have a reference to a library? Google is coming up empty
20:28	vIkSiT	lo all
20:28	vIkSiT	anyone here use clojure with hadoop?
20:28	vIkSiT	I'm looking for pointers on libs/docs to get started..
20:31	hiredman	vIkSiT: many do, I don't, but most seem to use cascading and cascalog
20:31	vIkSiT	hmm, cascalog I guess would mostly be for querying large datasets.
20:32	vIkSiT	I'll check out cascading, thanks. Looking for something a bit more low level though.
20:42	tomoj	vIkSiT: I use it, have no pointers
20:42	tomoj	am looking for pointers myself
20:42	tomoj	I must not understand clojure-hadoop
20:44	vIkSiT	tomoj, hehe, you mean you do use clojure-hadoop?
20:44	vIkSiT	or you dont? (I can't get it to install using lein, for instance)
20:45	vIkSiT	and get into dependency hell if i use it manually in lib/, since lein deps cleans out the lib dir each time!
20:46	tomoj	paste your project.clj?
20:47	vIkSiT	sec
20:47	tomoj	did you add stuartsierra's maven repo?
20:48	vIkSiT	hmm
20:48	vIkSiT	i didnt actually.
20:50	vIkSiT	tomoj, http://pastebin.com/mMgM2F9d
20:50	tomoj	:repositories {"stuartsierra-releases" "http://stuartsierra.com/maven2"}
20:50	vIkSiT	how exactly do I add that maven repo, btw?
20:50	vIkSiT	wow, I didn't know that format worked in lein.
20:50	tomoj	you may also need to add [org.apache.hadoop/hadoop-core-with-dependencies "0.18.3"]
20:50	tomoj	not sure
20:51	tomoj	so far I jar after every change, it's terrible
20:51	tomoj	I'm sure there's a better way with clojure-hadoop
20:51	vIkSiT	hmm.
20:51	tomoj	but I don't want to be stuck on 0.18.3 either..
20:52	vIkSiT	gah.
20:52	technomancy	we ended up ditching hadoop largely because of problems like this
20:53	tomoj	for what?
20:53	technomancy	conduit, through a circuitous route
20:53	vIkSiT	I'm still stuck with this : http://paste.lisp.org/display/116749
20:53	technomancy	granted if you need HDFS there's not really a good alternative.
20:53	technomancy	but we have lots of small files that we can't afford to keep anywhere but s3
20:53	amrk	conduit? i don't think I've heard of that one..
20:54	technomancy	clojurebot: google clojure conduit
20:54	clojurebot	First, out of 235 results is:
20:54	clojurebot	Stream Processing in Clojure - intensivesystems.net
20:54	clojurebot	http://intensivesystems.net/tutorials/stream_proc.html
20:54	technomancy	clojurebot: botsnack
20:54	clojurebot	thanks; that was delicious. (nom nom nom)
20:54	tomoj	hmm
20:54	vIkSiT	tomoj, my project.clj is updated btw. let me refresh that
20:54	vIkSiT	tomoj, http://paste.lisp.org/display/116749#1 is the project.clj
20:55	tomoj	vIkSiT: still not working?
20:56	tomoj	there is no clojure-hadoop 1.2.0, is there?
20:57	tomoj	1.2.0-SNAPSHOT is the latest in the repo
20:57	tomoj	but not published
20:57	tomoj	(git repo)
20:57	tomoj	the latest in his maven repo looks like 1.1.0
20:58	vIkSiT	oh hmm
20:58	vIkSiT	argh. I didn't notice that, thanks for the pointer tomoj
21:01	vIkSiT	tomoj, btw, why is that version of hadoop-core-with-deps at 0.18.3?
21:01	tomoj	that's the one clojure-hadoop is compatible with
21:04	vIkSiT	ah I see.
21:04	vIkSiT	tomoj, I'm pretty sure hadoop can be used directly from clojure too?
21:04	vIkSiT	rather than have a bunch of wrappers around it?
21:04	vIkSiT	has anyone tried that here?)
21:09	tomoj	see in clojure-hadoop
21:09	tomoj	read the examples in order
21:10	tomoj	wordcount1 just works directly on the hadoop api
21:10	tomoj	with some helpers
21:12	tomoj	if you want to target a more recent version of hadoop I guess you will have to do it raw too
21:12	vIkSiT	true
21:13	vIkSiT	tomoj, do you have any public repos of code that works? I've been trying experiments with alexott's clojure-examples/hadoop, but no luck so far..
21:13	tomoj	no, I don't have anything I can publish
21:14	tomoj	did you already try the examples in clojure-hadoop?
21:15	tomoj	alexott's example looks like it should work
21:16	tomoj	if you jar it up, you can run it like this:
21:17	tomoj	java -cp "lib/*:com.example.foo-0.1.0-SNAPSHOT.jar" clojure_hadoop.job -job com.example.foo.jobs/bar -input input/foo -output output/bar
21:17	tomoj	(but there must be a better way)
21:25	vIkSiT	tomoj, hmm, looks like clojure-hadoop-job might be a different jar altogether
21:26	mattmitchell	i have a clojure.lang.PersistentStructMap instance, that looks like this: {:count(*) 521845} -- how do i get the value?
21:27	hiredman	clojurebot: how can mattmitchell get teh value?
21:27	clojurebot	Titim gan éirí ort.
21:27	mattmitchell	i've tried (:count(*) my-struct) but that doesn't do it
21:29	hiredman	,(*)
21:29	clojurebot	1
21:29	hiredman	,(:count 1 {})
21:29	clojurebot	{}
21:29	tomoj	vIkSiT: huh? clojure_hadoop.job is surely in the clojure-hadoop jar I use
21:30	tomoj	,(:count(*) "fnord")
21:30	clojurebot	"fnord"
21:32	tomoj	why do you have a struct-map with a "count(*)" field?
21:33	mattmitchell	tomoj: this is the result from a mysql select
21:33	tomoj	I see
21:33	tomoj	maybe munge the keys?
21:34	mattmitchell	tomoj: this seems to work, but awkward: (last (first (seq (first my-struct))))
21:34	tomoj	otherwise you will have to do (def count-* (keyword "count()")) (count- my-struct) or (get my-struct (keyword "count(*")))
21:34	hiredman	is it really a keyword?
21:34	mattmitchell	tomoj: sorry i should've mentioned the struct it wrapped in a list as well
21:35	tonyl	or query with count(*) AS mycount
21:35	mattmitchell	tomoj: yeah thanks, the helps
21:35	dakrone	,(get {(keyword "count()") 1} (keyword "count()"))
21:35	clojurebot	1
21:35	dakrone	ugh, that's ugly
21:36	tonyl	${(keyword "count(*)") 343}
21:36	tonyl	&{(keyword "count(*)") 343}
21:36	sexpbot	⟹ {:count(*) 343}
21:36	tomoj	do you create a new struct for every query?
21:37	mattmitchell	tomoj: it seems to work that way yes, this is using the sql stuff from clojure contrib
21:37	tonyl	you can change your query a bit and use it like this SELECT COUNT(*) AS mycount FROM mytable;
21:37	tomoj	oh
21:37	tomoj	I'm using the sql stuff from clojure contrib too
21:37	tonyl	ooh ok
21:37	tomoj	I hadn't tried counting yet I guess
21:37	tonyl	haven't used that
21:37	jweiss_	anyone know why github won't highlight this code? https://github.com/clojure/clojure/blob/master/src/clj/clojure/core.clj
21:37	tomoj	I despise c.c.sql
21:38	hiredman	jweiss_: I think it's too big, the hilighter chokes
21:38	jweiss_	ah
21:38	mattmitchell	tonyl: yeah the "count as" is much better thanks
21:39	tonyl	I need a help in speed
21:39	tonyl	in this code: (reduce + (filter even? (take 4e6 (clojure.contrib.lazy-seqs/fibs))))
21:40	tonyl	can't make it run any faster when it is 4e5 or higher
21:40	tonyl	it gives the result back fast when it is 4e4 or less
21:47	tonyl	freaking computer froze
21:49	tonyl	&(reduce + (filter even? (take 4e2 (lazy-seqs/fibs))))
21:49	sexpbot	java.lang.Exception: No such namespace: lazy-seqs
21:54	tonyl	can anybody help me to speed up this snippet
21:54	tonyl	(reduce + (filter even? (take 4e6 fibs)))
21:55	tonyl	it takes forever (never stops) from 4e5 up
21:56	tonyl	fibs is a fn: (reduce + (filter even? (take 4e6 (fibs))))
22:04	tonyl	Iam guessing the overload is in the filtering, it is pretty high numbers
22:05	amalloy	tonyl: unlikely. i think it's just in generating (fibs)
22:05	amalloy	the four millionth fibonacci number is quite large, which means the jvm is doing a lot of math with BigIntegers to get to it
22:05	amalloy	and that's a /lot/ slower than ints or longs
22:06	tonyl	yeah i saw a snippet of the fib, those are big numbers
22:09	amalloy	tonyl: (fib n) grows about as fast as (exp 2 n), so it becomes infeasible after a while
22:11	tonyl	I'm trying to figure out how to break down the computation than
22:11	tonyl	I am trying the project euler challenges and I am stuck in number 2 :P
22:11	pppaul	use the phi equation
22:12	tonyl	thanks pppaul i'll take a look at it
22:13	amalloy	tonyl: also don't bother with filter even. no need to do any division/math, when you know every other fib will be even
22:13	pppaul	(use 'clojure.contrib.math)
22:13	pppaul	(def PHI (/ (+ 1 (sqrt 5)) 2))
22:13	pppaul	(defn fib-double ([n] (/ (- (Math/pow PHI n) (Math/pow (- 1 PHI) n)) (sqrt 5))))
22:13	pppaul	(defn fib ([n] (round (fib-double n))))
22:14	pppaul	convert that to use bigint and bigdec
22:14	pppaul	cus i don't know if it'll work due to precision problems
22:15	tonyl	amalloy: not every other number in the fibs seq is even, but you might be right about filter
22:15	pppaul	you may be able to get fast functions using def-memo
22:16	tonyl	pppaul: is round the only function used from c.c.math?
22:16	pppaul	yes
22:16	pppaul	can be replaced with (int
22:16	amalloy	tonyl: oh, i guess you're right. it must go odd-odd-even-odd-odd-even...
22:16	pppaul	i made it a long long time ago
22:16	amalloy	so you can take every third
22:17	amalloy	&(doc take-nth)
22:17	sexpbot	⟹ "([n coll]); Returns a lazy seq of every nth item in coll."
22:17	tonyl	I am going to look at both options, thanks guys
22:18	pppaul	since it's a series, and fibs are based off of the phi functions, there is probably a simple sum function for fibs
22:18	pppaul	you could have a constant time fib-sum :)
22:34	`jstirrell	hi
22:34	mattmitchell	&(doc seq)
22:34	sexpbot	⟹ "([coll]); Returns a seq on the collection. If the collection is empty, returns nil. (seq nil) returns nil. seq also works on Strings, native Java arrays (of reference types) and any objects that implement Iterable."
22:36	`jstirrell	How do you call a function A from function B when function A occurs later in code than function B?
22:36	tonyl	what do you mean occurs?
22:36	`jstirrell	like it is defined lower in source
22:37	tonyl	you can declare it before function A
22:37	tonyl	(declare fnB)
22:37	`jstirrell	AH! thanks, I knew it was something easy I just forgot the term
22:37	tonyl	np
22:41	pppaul	(declare war)
22:42	pppaul	&(declare war)
22:42	sexpbot	java.lang.SecurityException: You tripped the alarm! def is bad!1
22:42	pppaul	(source declare)
22:42	pppaul	&(source declare)
22:42	sexpbot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: source in this context
22:42	tonyl	$source declare
22:42	sexpbot	declare is http://is.gd/hg4Aa
22:42	pppaul	&(sorce declare)
22:42	sexpbot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: sorce in this context
22:42	pppaul	&(sauce declare)
22:42	sexpbot	java.lang.Exception: Unable to resolve symbol: sauce in this context
22:43	pppaul	$8ball am i getting it?
22:43	sexpbot	pppaul: You may rely on it.
22:43	pppaul	$8ball it it it it it?
22:43	sexpbot	pppaul: Don't count on it.
22:43	rata_	hi all
22:43	pppaul	hi
22:43	rata_	hi pppaul
22:44	pppaul	(inc rata_)
22:44	sexpbot	⟹ 1
22:44	rata_	:)
22:50	rata_	slyrus: I agree with you now that fnparse 3.x has better names for its functions... it was just a problem getting used to :require and the h/ thing
23:10	mattmitchell	&(doc doseq)
23:10	sexpbot	⟹ "Macro ([seq-exprs & body]); Repeatedly executes body (presumably for side-effects) with bindings and filtering as provided by \"for\". Does not retain the head of the sequence. Returns nil."
23:36	livingston	so I have this class being given to me: http://repository.aduna-software.org/docs/info.aduna/api/info/aduna/iteration/Iteration.html
23:36	livingston	and I'd like to just call seq or iterator-seq on it but it doesn't actually implement iterable, just something almost identical...
23:37	livingston	presumably there's a clever way to use extend to patch it, but I'm having a hard time finding an example.
23:40	tonyl	got it (reduce + (take-nth 3 (take-while (partial >= 4e6) (fibs))))
23:45	amalloy	livingston: this isn't "almost iterable", but rather "almost an iterator"
23:46	livingston	amalloy: er right, that
23:47	livingston	amalloy: right now I just defined sesame-iteration-seq that produces a lazy list - that's probably good enough -- but I was playing around with other protocols tonight
23:55	slyrus	rata_: ah, good
23:55	livingston	yeah I was just looking for a clean example of extending an existing java class with the ISeq protocol.
23:55	slyrus	yeah, I think joshuachoi made it better with fnparse3
23:59	slyrus	my only gripe about fnparse is that it makes my previous parsing attempts for the same task look (in CL) look rather lame
23:59	slyrus	well, ok, probably not my only gripe, but you get the idea